The commander of the "Vostok" commented on the strike of the MLRS HIMARS on the command post of the brigade

Near Ugledar, the fighters of the Vostok Brigade (DPR) thwarted an attempt by the Ukrainian military to break through our positions. In small groups, they tried to overcome the defensive line of the Russian troops, but to no avail, although they made repeated attempts for several hours.

This was told by the commander of the brigade "Vostok" Alexander Khodakovsky in his Telegram channel.

The Vostok brigade commander commented on the HIMARS MLRS strike on the brigade command post that followed. Khodakovsky suggested that the shelling was carried out by the militants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in retaliation for an unsuccessful attempt to break through. Unfortunately, the strike resulted in the death of one of the staff officers named Andrei, whom the brigade commander called his old comrade.

The kingdom of heaven to the warrior Andrei, we will miss him very much

- the brigade commander paid tribute to the memory of his deceased friend.

Khodakovsky believes that the destruction of the battalion command post, if it happened, would cause even more damage to command and control than the liquidation of the army headquarters. After all, it is the headquarters of the battalions that have information directly from the place of hostilities. And higher-level command posts receive data from them.

Despite the blow, command and control of the troops was not lost, the enemy failed to paralyze the defense, as our military used redundant communication channels.

According to Khodakovsky, the enemy has been learning to fight since 2014, but the armed forces of the Donbass republics have been doing the same.

He learned to fight, but so did we

- says the commander of the "East".

Comments

[voice of reason]

Which once again shows that just on the LBS, high-precision artillery and MLRS are not so effective. Paradoxically, for high-precision and expensive strikes, it is necessary to look for appropriate targets in the rear. Communication centers, ammunition depots, personnel rotation places, warehouses with material and technical equipment, fuel and lubricants refueling, places for parking and repair of equipment. This concept of the use of artillery stems from the Anglo-Saxon experience of the period of wars against partisans and insurgents. There are protected bases within which artillery divisions and airmobile units are located. Special Forces groups, undercover and satellite reconnaissance identify the enemy, an accurate strike is delivered on him by aviation and artillery, and then airmobile units move into place, land troops and finish off the rest.
But this is a completely different concept of artillery. it is not designed to support the battlefield. After all, you won’t spend high-precision shells for forty kilometers on a group of three or four infantrymen hiding in a trench. And even if you do, the result is not guaranteed, unlike a warehouse or trucks standing at a gas station. . Here you need a battery of simple and reliable trunks that will plow a square with trenches into the "lunar landscape" relatively inexpensively, inaccurately but reliably. And this is what we are seeing now, all the enemy’s artillery went into the upstart and when they tried to keep the LBS with them, they simply spent expensive shells and barrel resources. And now they are sitting with outstretched hands asking for howitzer shells from Brazil.
And after all, it burns from these simple conclusions)))

[takeshi]

On the battlefield, any weapon that destroys the enemy is important. Including expensive controlled

[vladcub]

In a way, he's right. The use of guided missiles, on the front lines, is not rational.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: takeshi

On the battlefield, any weapon that destroys the enemy is important. Including expensive controlled

Especially if it's sloppy

[Constantine N]

when new technology comes to the APU, they will dramatically change tactics.

[Ural resident]

Quote: voice of reason

Which once again shows that just on the LBS, high-precision artillery and MLRS are not so effective. Paradoxically, for high-precision and expensive strikes, it is necessary to look for appropriate targets in the rear. Communication centers, ammunition depots, personnel rotation places, warehouses with material and technical equipment, fuel and lubricants refueling, places for parking and repair of equipment. This concept of the use of artillery stems from the Anglo-Saxon experience of the period of wars against partisans and insurgents. There are protected bases within which artillery divisions and airmobile units are located. Special Forces groups, undercover and satellite reconnaissance identify the enemy, an accurate strike is delivered on him by aviation and artillery, and then airmobile units move into place, land troops and finish off the rest.
But this is a completely different concept of artillery. it is not designed to support the battlefield. After all, you won’t spend high-precision shells for forty kilometers on a group of three or four infantrymen hiding in a trench. And even if you do, the result is not guaranteed, unlike a warehouse or trucks standing at a gas station. . Here you need a battery of simple and reliable trunks that will plow a square with trenches into the "lunar landscape" relatively inexpensively, inaccurately but reliably. And this is what we are seeing now, all the enemy’s artillery went into the upstart and when they tried to keep the LBS with them, they simply spent expensive shells and barrel resources. And now they are sitting with outstretched hands asking for howitzer shells from Brazil.
And after all, it burns from these simple conclusions)))

They successfully hit the command post of the brigade, an officer died, and this, in your opinion, is not effective?

[topol717]

Quote: Resident of the Urals

They successfully hit the command post of the brigade, an officer died, and this, in your opinion, is not effective?

Any war requires money. you can fight as long as you have money to buy shells. If a rocket worth a couple of million will destroy the 1st officer, then no money will be enough. No matter how blasphemous it may sound.

[Kronos]

The death of one sensible officer always has a negative impact on the general state of affairs.

[haron]

Quote from: topol717

If a rocket worth a couple of million will destroy the 1st officer, then no money will be enough. No matter how blasphemous it may sound.

And if the transformer is half a hundred kilowatts? Who is this blasphemy against? The electric locomotive will not pull, the arrows will close for 10 minutes ... but you can account for the "destruction of the nodal substation."

[Pilat2009]

Quote from: topol717

Quote: Resident of the Urals

They successfully hit the command post of the brigade, an officer died, and this, in your opinion, is not effective?

Any war requires money. you can fight as long as you have money to buy shells. If a rocket worth a couple of million will destroy the 1st officer, then no money will be enough. No matter how blasphemous it may sound.

They just didn’t hit. But they hit in Makiivka

[vladcub]

Brigade headquarters and conventional: 76 mm or 100 mm, they can perfectly "plow"

[Sergey79]

Brad ... You may have wanted to say 122 or 152 mm. In general, the comments of ignorant people amuse ... But, more often, it becomes sickening ...

[zloybond]

Yes, a lot of fun. Khodakovsky himself always talks about the unit as a battalion, now here is a brigade - if in terms of numbers they are completely different things.

[your vsr 66-67]

Quote: A resident of the Urals

Quote: voice of reason

Which once again shows that just on the LBS, high-precision artillery and MLRS are not so effective. Paradoxically, for high-precision and expensive strikes, it is necessary to look for appropriate targets in the rear. Communication centers, ammunition depots, personnel rotation places, warehouses with material and technical equipment, fuel and lubricants refueling, places for parking and repair of equipment. This concept of the use of artillery stems from the Anglo-Saxon experience of the period of wars against partisans and insurgents. There are protected bases within which artillery divisions and airmobile units are located. Special Forces groups, undercover and satellite reconnaissance identify the enemy, an accurate strike is delivered on him by aviation and artillery, and then airmobile units move into place, land troops and finish off the rest.
But this is a completely different concept of artillery. it is not designed to support the battlefield. After all, you won’t spend high-precision shells for forty kilometers on a group of three or four infantrymen hiding in a trench. And even if you do, the result is not guaranteed, unlike a warehouse or trucks standing at a gas station. . Here you need a battery of simple and reliable trunks that will plow a square with trenches into the "lunar landscape" relatively inexpensively, inaccurately but reliably. And this is what we are seeing now, all the enemy’s artillery went into the upstart and when they tried to keep the LBS with them, they simply spent expensive shells and barrel resources. And now they are sitting with outstretched hands asking for howitzer shells from Brazil.
And after all, it burns from these simple conclusions)))

They successfully hit the command post of the brigade, an officer died, and this, in your opinion, is not effective?

The voice of reason does not answer anyone and nothing! So, he scribbles while sitting at the keyboard, and that's it! The main thing for him is to be the first on any publication!

[cold wind]

What nonsense you can’t read here ... a complete misunderstanding of modern warfare.
A guided projectile / bomb / rocket can be spent on at least 1 soldier. If he occupies a key position. A package of Himars and no stronghold platoon, a battery of Himars and no company strongpoint. Demining vehicles and a motorized brigade rush into the gap to surround and smash the rear. If before that we knock out the battalion and brigade command posts, here's the regrouping of the army corps in the Kharkov region.

[Former soldier]

Demining vehicles and a motorized brigade rush into the gap

And if the depth of minefields is 3 km? How fast do demining machines operate? Will they manage to break through before the whole caravan is discovered and covered?

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Former soldier

Demining vehicles and a motorized brigade rush into the gap

And if the depth of minefields is 3 km? How fast do demining machines operate? Will they manage to break through before the whole caravan is discovered and covered?

To do this, you need to constantly monitor the situation. Ideally, hang a reconnaissance satellite over Ukraine. Everyone must have seen footage from Ugledar

[certero]

Quote from cold wind

A guided projectile / bomb / rocket can be spent on at least 1 soldier. If he occupies a key position. A package of Himars and no stronghold platoon, a battery of Himars and no company strongpoint. Demining vehicles and a motorized brigade rush into the gap to surround and smash the rear. If before that we knock out the battalion and brigade command posts, here's the regrouping of the army corps in the Kharkov region.

The question immediately arises in the Russian army, all this is. Calibers, along with Iskanders and hurricanes, will be cooler than Hamers. Where are the breakthroughs?

[Kronos]

There are few calibers, iskanders are not so accurate + you need to be able to apply all this more.

[Foul skeptic]

After all, you won’t spend high-precision shells for forty kilometers on a group of three or four infantrymen hiding in a trench. Here you need a battery of simple and reliable trunks that will plow a square with trenches into the "lunar landscape" relatively inexpensively, inaccurately but reliably.

Or you will spend one mine with laser guidance and detonation in the air for each trench. But rather a couple of grenades from an automatic grenade launcher with a ballistic computer with the same air blast. Tales about the fact that it is fabulously expensive in 2023, leave the poor and stupid. You may not believe it, but the economic advantage of adjustable / guided weapons over unguided weapons based on mathematical models was proven decades ago, and in practice, in general, since the moment the bridge in Thanh Hoa was hit.

[Sarboz]

Quote: Peter_Koldunov

Avon is slapping you like... everyone was whipped right on the cheeks.

But the lion's share of this "stream of consciousness" of Sarmat Sanych is true. There is a war going on and it is necessary to stop this "voenkorov" revelry. Most of these "military correspondents" are simple bloggers who have caught the wave. (In no way does this apply to the military commissars of the official media, who perform important and dangerous work for the LBS). Indeed, most often one of them throws a duck in the information field, which the rest spread by repeated repetitions, referring to each other, creating an effect of reliability. War requires CENSORSHIP. This is the law proven by all wars.

[vladcub]

Sarmat, what do you agree on: Khodakovsky officer or reporter? We have to decide.
As a reporter, he will be good: after all, he has combat experience and will soon grasp the essence of what is happening.
As a commander. Do not know when
He manages to manage his official duties

[VladMirU]

Khodakovsky has not fought anywhere since 2017. He sits at the table and fancies himself a "former". And now Khodakovsky calls himself the "curator" of the battalion and "ideological inspirer." Really engaged in the work of the political movement "Patriotic Forces of Donbass", which is not part of the People's Council of the DPR. Well, at the same time trying to be another "blocher".

[Sarboz]

Quote: vladcub

Sarmat, what do you agree on: Khodakovsky officer or reporter? We have to decide.
As a reporter, he will be good: after all, he has combat experience and will soon grasp the essence of what is happening.
As a commander. Do not know when
He manages to manage his official duties

Either he is a commander and is engaged only in his official duties, or give him the position of a media relations officer and let him work.

[Carat]

Quote: Sarmat Sanych

Dear editors of the Moscow Region, how long can this Akhmetov double-bass player-star of TV broadcasts be called the "brigade commander of the East"?

He was the brigade commander of the "East" from May to November 2014. That is, he has not been a brigade commander for a long time.

[Eugene 62]

NI Asilil. Many bukAF. -)-)-)-)-)-)-)

[houses]

I just wanted to put you +, but due to the fact that I haven’t written comments here for a long time, the site refuses to give me ratings. So I decided to post my comment.
I stopped carefully reading all those whom you listed a long time ago, just for the same reasons that you outlined. I do not agree with all your epithets, but in fact I share the general opinion. Nevertheless, it is worth noting the positive side of the military correspondents, at least in the fact that at the very beginning of the SVO they revealed the problems of the front line.

[Shark Lover]

Quote: Sarmat Sanych

And what's behind Bredar's shoulders? Heavy rhythmic breathing brother?

I thought he had an orgasm, and it's asthma. About what they feel behind their shoulders. Sergey, this question has been haunting for a long time, about these generalisimos of bloggers. Okay, there from some channel, otherwise, in general, on their own. Moreover, the majority show staged filming of art, battles, and they themselves soar in taverns. No, they go to the front or close to it, but how can a streamer be a general Chuhcha? They stream in word jf tanks, they will be doing it soon. Totally for your article!

[VORON538]

Military commissar Filatov stands out from this crowd in this regard. Yes, there are no "analyses" and "strategic planning as it should be" ... but the guy works at the front. There is time, he can lay out something, from there, and not from the office. Maybe that's why he has no time to run blozhik channels!

[VladMirU]

Well done Sarmat Sanych (Sergey), shook everyone up. Seriously though. Divorced every ... difference. It's time to clean.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Sarmat Sanych

Dear editors of the Moscow Region, how long can this Akhmetov double-bass player-star of TV broadcasts be called the "brigade commander of the East"? That structure has been led by a regular officer of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation for a hundred years at lunch, and what does this pots have to do with it?
In what status does SBU Major Khodakovsky write? In the status of "wiped zbroyny syll ukrainy"? Servicemen of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are prohibited from blogging.
How can the "combat unit commander" manage to pee on blogs in the intervals between duties? Maybe he also sews at night? Yes, I'm surprised even when he manages to pee in the blog between broadcasts on television. And then there's some kind of war distracting. Can it pass through a polygraph? This man has been bothering me for a long time. Or a rectal cryptanalyzer is more reliable.
Khodakovsky - blogger? A career officer in the active army with a lot of official duties in wartime? Or "talk from nothing to do"? And one more thing ... why does an average person need to know about the tactics of conducting a particular operation with an assessment of the action of the command? Incontinence of thoughts or a game to raise your significance? Then you just don’t have to drop it initially, so as not to puff up later. So who is this type?
Enemy or urak. I bet on the first. So ... let's write it down, and put it in daddy: "Major of the SBU is an established epic writer and storyteller, capable of flexibly fairing with the rough language of a poster ... to project custom-made vices and phobias onto the governing bodies."
Soon in the West there will be a whole caste of "politically repressed pravdorubov who were at war!"
Here is what the Heroes of Donbass Givi and Clooney said about this man Akhmetov (negotiated for the double bass of coal from the LDNR for 8 years) to Major Khodakovsky of the SBU, Givi and Clooney, Major of the SBU, put a bunch of people in the DAP and blew everything that could be blown out [these videos are constantly deleted from YouTube]:
1. https://m.vk.com/video-211990026_456242927?list=a9c1f60358132079fb&from=wall-211990026_97931
2. https://youtu.be/4b88VnnRh7I
A kakol will forever remain a kaklo, opening its mouth, it poops on the surrounding reality, no matter what form it has, the main thing is that it is a bawler-Judomaydano-wind chime in essence.
I stopped listening to Vesti FM, even Kulikov .. but it accelerates. In the box, for months, horns-own-bukhlosweet-combrikhohlakov-padalyaks. Once it had to happen - the "Russian" TV-Avision starts to eat itself outright. Who should be. in order to broadcast the opinions of such "experts", over which only a tightly stoned dolbak does not laugh?
The "blue light" named after Pugacheva-Kirkorova-Galkina has already passed this way and died emitting a stinky rainbow amber, a line for the "heavy artillery" TV and military corps-TG, joyfully using the wormy agenda of the 5th column. "Military correspondents" just got sick of it - well, they fucked up, sorry, Khodakovsky, the criminal Bydlen Fomin Podolyaka or the fisherman from Kukuev knows something, does the General Staff report to them? And it's useless, even a stake on the head. And after Simonyansha's attempts to smear Krosovsky, I'm one step away, switch to Sisyan's vocabulary. For, yes, we have killed the Leberasts. But then supposedly "their own" shit came out even more and it is much more difficult to clean it up - they are like "their own". True, they have their own, far from being in the ravine, but in expensive restaurants Moscow time they eat lobsters instead of Alyoshka.
Wow, the MO does not fight the way Rybar and the gopkompashka want.
The grandmaster (Ministry of Defense) sees much further than the collective champion of the yard pavilion (blokhery with I'm down for morons). Therefore, it is better for a grandmaster to know how to proceed. The advice of military bloggers is "Walk like a horse!" (With)
All the phony nerds, blochers, seminarians, and simply khokhlobots.
Gerasimov and Muradov have six wars behind them (victorious ones, for a moment), but what about Bredar? Heavy rhythmic breathing brother? Therefore, it remains to wait and hope that this eternally whining (and praising each other) caudle will be closed in full force.
Konanykhin quotes Rybar, Zergulio refers to Konanykhin, then Rybar refers back to Zergulio.
Similarly, Dimitriev praises the "Shameful fagot", the fagot refers to Bydlen, Bydlen praises the bald Tarantas, and TraTaras kisses Dimitriev and Khokhlakovsky below the back. This is some kind of Dutch Steering wheel (do not google).
And they are all complete nonsense. And everyone makes traffic, a lot of content, fill the wall with posts, between them a couple of ads with Finns, ..uyak ..yuk and production. And all this is supervised by the CIPSO, which is supervised by some uncle from Langley. And only ukroTV "tells the truth" (bggg), meanwhile, Ukrainian mothers and wives are looking for 360 thousand lost ukromuzhiks)))
They constantly show me here, "What are you talking about?" Behind the closet, mlyn.
And then the question arises, for whom do the soldiers work? Rhetorical, the answer suggests itself.

Six victorious wars behind us were especially amused. And in which wars, let me ask you, did the enemy have air defense and Himarsy? In which wars did NATO countries train and supply enemy soldiers? In which wars did the losses of NATO countries approach 20 thousand people? For a year

[Igor_Sergeevich]

Before drawing such simple conclusions, study the tasks solved by artillery in defense and offensive, as well as the basics of artillery fire planning. To carry out these tasks, there are howitzer, cannon, MLRS, mortars and anti-tank artillery with appropriate ammunition. And you won't get burned.

[single-n]

Even on LBS you need to hit aiming. It makes no sense to hit the fields.

. Here you need a battery of simple and reliable trunks that will plow a square with trenches into the "lunar landscape" relatively inexpensively, inaccurately but reliably.

You do not consider how much it costs to produce this battery. Train and maintain L\S. Vehicles for guns and HEALES of ammo. They also need to be produced and stored. Large warehouses are more difficult to defend and camouflage. In short, it can turn out so that 1 rocket for 1 conditional lyam of greenery spent to destroy one pillbox will be CHEAPER than trying to hit it with ordinary "cheap" howitzers :) By the way, according to the standards for SUPPRESSION, not destruction, a conventional art battery needs about 60 to 90 shells caliber 100-152 mm. This is to understand the cost of shells.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Single-n

You do not consider how much it costs to produce this battery. Train and maintain L\S. Vehicles for guns and HEALES of ammo. They also need to be produced and stored. Large warehouses are more difficult to defend and camouflage.

And the main problem is that this battery has every chance of simply not firing the standard number of shells. For after five minutes of such a fire, her firing squads will open and a response will fly at them.

In order to arrange artillery preparation in the style of the Great Patriotic War, today you must first suppress enemy artillery. And for this, it is necessary to fully control its rear within a radius of 50 kilometers, or even more - because otherwise it will not be possible to catch the same mobile launchers of tactical corrected ammunition (which MLRS have now turned into).

[Kostadinov]

Which once again shows that just on the LBS, high-precision art and RSZ are not so effective.

This is the real voice of reason! On the battlefield, a mortar battery is more needed than an Iskander or Caliber launcher.

[Novichek]

. mortar battery is needed

. Excuse me, did I understand you correctly that guided missiles are a useless thing? Is it better to hit "somewhere there"? For some reason, I wouldn’t refuse if each of our shells fired from the barrel flew right on target

[topol717]

Quote: Novichek)

for some reason, I wouldn’t refuse if each of our shells fired from the barrel flew right on target

He already flies exactly at the target, but the target has the ability to move, and the coordinates of the target may not be entirely accurate, and so on. therefore, it is better to fire 5 cheap shells on LBS and with some probability hit somewhere than 1 accurate shell, but with a high probability of hitting where the target is no longer there or never was.

[Alexey RA]

Quote from: topol717

therefore, it is better to fire 5 cheap shells on LBS and with some probability hit somewhere

Yep ... somewhere is a very precise definition. 150 shells per hectare for suppression only.
Moores posted a video a few months ago of mortarmen trying to nail down a Ukrainian group. Even the adjustment from the UAV did not help - the mines stubbornly lay by. And if they had guided weapons, a couple of mines would be enough, as if they were laid in a car that arrived behind the group.

[Victor Shershnev]

Dearest, and like everyone who is with you on this issue!

What elementary prevents to make an installation in which
, for example, guidance on each of the two coordinates is carried out by stepper motors ?! Accuracy here is achievable "any", limited only by the natural spread. Pickup control can be additionally introduced even though laser-interferometric ultra-precision along the trunk (!) ...
In summary:
1. "High-noise-immune" UAV in real time gives out "points" of targets.
2. Automatic loader - loads ammunition (at least a gun, even a mortar), at the same time, stepper motors accurately direct, the laser controls the aiming of the barrel itself.
Note: add. remote installation is possible. undermining at dist. fuse.
3. A shot, and at the same time giving a UAV signal to sight the gap / adjust the aiming.

And so on ... I omit the details.

Moreover, the system can be made practically "inhuman" - a couple of operas for three installations.

And the rate of fire can be. achieved "ahovaya" ...
And the essence of the system is primitively simple, it is elementary to do.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Victor Shershnev

And the essence of the system is primitively simple, it is elementary to do.

You have just described a "Coalition" operating as part of a regular battalion with a fully functional fire control system and trained personnel on a staffing basis. Or the work of the main caliber of the WWII LK (there the role of the UAV was performed by the radar and KDP on the top of the superstructure / mast).
The problem is that if we exclude "manual" pointing errors, then there will still be dispersion and the impossibility of taking into account all factors when generating data for shooting. So the sowing of fields with shells will continue - already in automatic mode.

[strannik1985]

150 shells per hectare for suppression only.

These are different goals, single ones are combined into a group one. no reconnaissance system can guarantee to reveal the position of all infantrymen at a stronghold in order to hit their WTO. 150 shells - a guarantee that while the artillery is working, the crew of the Javelin or Stugna will sit in the mountains, and not work on armored vehicles.
Moreover, after the end of artillery preparation, artillery support of the attack begins, i.e. fire is transferred along the flanks and in depth, to prevent the approach of reserves. A tank or infantry fighting vehicle with a trained crew costs much more than 150 shells per hectare of a strong point.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: strannik1985

150 shells - a guarantee that while the artillery is working, the crew of the Javelin or Stugna will sit in the mountains, and not work on armored vehicles.

Yeah ... and in parallel with these 150 shells per hectare, 180 shells must be fired for each enemy battery. And before she shoots back and curls up.
In general, hello WWI at the prices of the XXI century - from 60 thousand rubles. for the projectile.

[strannik1985]

In general, hello WWI at the prices of the XXI century - from 60 thousand rubles. for the projectile.

It depends on what shoots, if it is something modern, such as the "Crab" or Pz2000, then the primary coordinates of the artillery reconnaissance means should be sent on duty "bird", because they can be located by gun and widely use counterfire maneuver.
If old or purely towed, type 777, without ASUNO, then you can shoot right away.

[KCA]

Oh, really? Highmars at 800 km? And the BRMD will not fall apart for chassis parts from the start? 300km ATACMS range, or was it just a command to throw on the propeller? Bots will be recruited by ad...

[Osipov9391]

Do such designations as JFS-M and PrSM mean anything to you?
The first flies for 600 km and is actually an analogue of the Iskader-K, the second for 800 km.
Moreover, a couple of products are placed on the Himars installation in the first and in the second option.

Can we make similar missiles with such a range and put them on a regular KamAZ?
Then it will be possible to say that there is an analogue.

[KCA]

They don’t exist, these are projects when someone else knows him will appear, and they will start from a caterpillar chassis, such as the M270, the wheeled one from Hymars will really fall apart into spare parts, by the way, but have there been successful tests yet? I didn’t read something about a flight range of over 280 km. But Russia has long had Basition complexes, they have Onyxes on a regular basis with a range of 800 km and which work quite normally on the ground, the Zircon has already been put on the chassis, no need to scare the jozhik with a bare ass

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Osipov9391

designations such as JFS-M and PrSM do not mean anything

They say, but not much. Firstly, this is all at the stage of development and promises. Secondly, there are nuances in terms of performance characteristics.
JFS-M: cruise missile with a launch weight of 250–300 kg and a speed of up to 1000 km/h.
PrSM: range up to 500 km, b/h 227-kg. In fact, a more long-range version of ATACMS
Iskander: ballistic missile - mass b / h - 480 kg, speed 2100-2600 m / s with the ability to maneuver up to 30g, range - 500 km; cruise missile - b / h weight 480 kg, range either 1500 or 2500 km.
With the same success, you can compare the BMP and the tank: there is a gun, there is armor, there are tracks - the same thing, practically.

[Aleksandr75]

Dreamer! They haven’t even delivered you with a range of 150 km yet. And if you start shelling, Russia will start to nightmare already in a serious and black way!

[bk316]

As soon as Himars receives serial missiles for 600 and 800 km, everyone in the world will forget about the Iskander.

It won't be Hymars anymore.

[cold wind]

Quote: bk316

It won't be Hymars anymore.

He is.

PrSM Increment 1 missiles with "an undisclosed range of more than 500 km" (manufacturers tacitly claim 650 km) are in production and will undergo three tests in 2023 "to further demonstrate capabilities as these early combat missiles roll off the assembly line”, said Hartley (vice president of Lockheeds) at the annual conference of the US Army (AUSA-2022) in Washington, DC.

PrSM Increment 2 missiles will receive an added multi-mode seeker.

PrSM Increment 3 missiles will be "intelligent submunitions" and have the ability to work on multiple targets.

PrSM Increment 4 missiles will be able to hit targets at ranges up to 1000 km.

[Sarmat Sanych]

Osipov9391, stop polishing the 21st pointer of your underdeveloped western masters, they still have 10 years of development to the perfect quasi-ballistic "Iskander"; to controlled sea-based hypersound and a 250/100 thermonuclear charge device - in general, 20 years of life. Cry, the mattress covers are extremely weak and worthless, so they still don’t even have the Iranian level of the BRMD for at least 600 km, which is why the eternal glasses.

[Negro]

Quote: Sarmat Sanych

mattress covers are extremely weak and worthless, so they still don’t even have the Iranian level of BRMD for at least 600 km,

)))

[Former soldier]

"Iskander" is already a hopelessly outdated system. By size, weight, mobility and specific application. Which are more than 30 years old, still Soviet development.

As soon as Himars receives serial missiles for 600 and 800 km, everyone in the world will forget about the Iskander.

delivery of 500 kg of explosives to the desired point will be relevant for a long time

[KCA]

TYABCH 200kt fits into 400kg, most likely even less, probably, plus more control equipment, air conditioning and a control system that includes an unlocker for launching and detonating

[Negro]

Quote: KCA

TYABCH 200kt fits into 400kg, most likely even less

)))
Much less. Just SBC is lighter than usual.

[KCA]

So I write, the warhead is lighter, but additional equipment is required, how will the charge feel when the temperature changes from +30 to -60, I don’t know, air conditioning, do you need an unlock signal receiver? It’s needed, it also doesn’t weigh 5 grams, the guidance system is completely different, you don’t need to reach the target, well, protection from electronic warfare

[Prisoner]

Your rightness is the rightness of tactics. Tacticians may win battles at the battalion or regimental levels, but in war it is the strategists who win.

[Bad thing]

Comrade writers of all ranks, you already decide on the status of such a respected person, then you have a brigade commander, then a battalion commander, then an east brigade, then a battalion, started a note about the brigade command post, then again jumped to the battalion command post. Or does the level of education make it impossible to understand the difference between a brigade and a battalion?

[Trapp1st]

Comrade writers of all ranks, you already decide on the status of such a respected person

Here they can’t decide on the status of entire regions, then people’s republics, then new territories, then regions, and you are talking about one person))

[Daishi]

The year of the war has passed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and again, oh Himars, oh they hit, oh, but we didn’t see, oh, we didn’t know

[Osipov9391]

Himars shows itself as the best complex in its class for both OTRK and MLRS replacing.
Who would not say.
After this American system receives in its arsenal flying bombs for 170 km, tactical missiles for 600 and 800 km, then its all characteristics will surpass the Iskander by two heads.
Mobility is high - he flies in cargo planes.
The Iskander and its huge service vehicles barely climb onto the railway platforms.

It is a pity that in the military department for more than 15-20 last years they did not analyze the appearance of American tactical missile systems at all and did not even try to make their analogue.
The result is visible.

And as soon as Ukraine receives those same flying bombs, the land corridor to the Crimea will become shot through.

[cold wind]

Quote: Osipov9391

And as soon as Ukraine receives those same flying bombs, the land corridor to the Crimea will become shot through.

The main Dzhankoy will be hit. Airport and transport hub. Without them, the defense of the land corridor will become impossible.

[Osipov9391]

In this situation, getting these installations firing already 120-150 km from the front line will be on the verge of fantasy with our means.
Now they fire their existing rockets from a distance of 25-65 km from the front line and almost always at night.

Theoretically, from a duty reconnaissance drone, the installation at this moment can be replaced by flashes of flame and puffs of smoke illuminated by this flame.
But there is little point further - until the gunners or missilemen are informed - look for the whistles of wind in the field.
She folded up in a minute or two and left.
After 10-15 km, they picked up a package in a forest plantation, charged up and fired another volley at the coordinates.

Attack UAVs hanging in the air on duty or Su-39 attack aircraft equipped with night low-level systems "Mercury", "Prichal", etc. could fight them.

[Third district]

Quote: Osipov9391

Attack UAVs hanging in the air on duty or Su-39 attack aircraft equipped with night low-level systems "Mercury", "Prichal", etc. could fight them.

Where did you see Su-39 attack aircraft in our VKS. There are no such aircraft in service.

[Osipov9391]

So the Su-39 was planned to be launched into a series back in the late 90s.
To replace the existing Su-25. Then they put it in a long box.

[Negro]

Quote from cold wind

The main Dzhankoy will be hit. Airport and transport hub. Without them, the defense of the land corridor will become impossible.

You are exaggerating a little. This would be so if the Ukrainian side could ensure the observation and destruction of targets online - it seems that so far it works only by coordinates.

[bk316]

After this American system receives in its arsenal flying bombs for 170 km, tactical missiles for 600 and 800 km, then its all characteristics will surpass the Iskander by two heads.

I don’t understand that it’s customary for Ukrainians to pray for different weapons systems of overseas owners, but you still need to see the coast. Where will the rocket for the Hymars come from with a range of 800, if there are not even four hundred? So you can write about the Hymars of the intercontinental range.

[Foul skeptic]

Where will the rocket for hymars come from with a range of 800, if not four hundred?

Eat. At least 500 were already tested in 2021, the actual range without restrictions may be greater. This year it becomes operational.

[bk316]

This year it becomes operational.

800 km becomes operational?
Proof is it possible?

[bk316]

. This year it becomes operational.

Ale. AU .... So where is the proof, now I specially googled it, I didn’t find anything about the new rocket
MGM-164 ATACMS 2000 MOD has 300 km AND IT WILL BE PRODUCED UP TO YEAR 24.
MGM-168 ATACMS Block 3 has 227 km and has been discontinued.

[Foul skeptic]

800 km becomes operational?

499+ (in tests, telemetry recorded 499,2 km before the loss of communication), how much this plus, I believe, a limited circle of people knows.

Ale. AU...

As you fix the bell on the site, you will sing and shout.

Now I specially googled, I didn’t find anything about a new rocket

You don't know how to google.

[bk316]

You don't know how to google.

There is nothing but rumors, for example, it says here that she will be in 27
https://breakingdefense.com/2022/05/the-army-could-get-its-next-gen-precision-strike-missiles-in-fy27/
Therefore, we go directly to lockheed.
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/precision-strike-missile.html
WHERE THERE 800? Where is there about weapons at 23 if internal tests have not passed?

499+ (in tests, telemetry recorded 499,2 km before the loss of communication), how much this plus, I believe, a limited circle of people knows.

And that's why you wrote 800? And what is NOT 8000 - is it also 499+? MINUS YOU BIG AND FAT.

And why are you "skeptics" so one-sided?
An American missile, which not only was not accepted into service, but whose tests were not completed. A missile that, according to the developer himself, lost control at 499 km, a missile that the Pentagon is going to receive in 27 and then hopes to modernize it. You attribute a range of 800 km to her and expect her in 23. And you say to the same Sarmatian, "first put it into service"?

[Foul skeptic]

There is nothing but rumors, for example, it says here that she will be in 27

It is written there in black and white that by 2027 the SECOND generation of this missile, capable of hitting moving targets, will be ready. For the first generation, the army has already signed a second contract (for production) in September last year.

WHERE THERE 800? Where is there about weapons at 23 if internal tests have not passed?

And why should there be something about "800"? Didn't you say? And I see on the site the text "Lockheed Martin Successful in all Flight Tests; Met all US Army objectives including controlled trajectory, pin-point accuracy, and lethality while integrating with HIMARS launcher."

And that's why you wrote 800? And what is NOT 8000 - is it also 499+? MINUS YOU BIG AND FAT.

I wrote about 800? Is it true?

An American missile, which not only was not accepted into service, but whose tests were not completed.

You see what's the matter, what you consider to be unfinished tests is the continuation of work on The Precision Strike Missile PROGRAM, which consists of a number of STAGES, each of which produces its own product. The product of the first stage is received.

A rocket that, according to the developer himself, lost control at 499 km

Is that how you understand what is written? How wonderful. 1) Telemetry is lost, not control 2) Control cannot be lost, it simply does not exist, correction and control are not the same thing. 3) It is not the rocket that is responsible for the telemetry.

a missile that the Pentagon is going to receive in 27 and then hopes to modernize it.

All upside down. In 2027, this is just a rocket modernized as part of the further development of the program.

You attribute a range of 800 km to her and expect her in 23.

I do not attribute. And the US Army is waiting for her.

And you say to the same Sarmatian, "first put it into service"?

Stop imagining.

[Prjanik]

Nothing that Iskander intends to be limited to 500 km under an agreement with mattresses on the limitation of short and medium-range missiles? If they make ground-based 600km, what will prevent us from putting ground-based hypersonic Zircons at 1000km

[Osipov9391]

I'm not even talking about missiles, but about the launcher and maintenance vehicles.
At "Iskander" they are large, heavy, with limited mobility. Not universal.
And Himars fumbles in cargo planes, light, small, hidden.
Missiles are a separate issue. But still, I'm talking about the car itself and the launcher.

And how many times they repeat here that the Americans tore up that agreement a long time ago and flushed it down the toilet even under Trump.
Why repeat as a dogma what has long been gone?
And Ukraine is about to appear if it has not appeared yet in the summer.

[bk316]

But still, I'm talking about the car itself and the launcher.

Yes, and here is the installation and range?
You can make an installation on the basis of a Kruzak, or even on the basis of a field, but only a missile with a range of more than a dozen km and a warhead of more than 10 kg cannot be put on them.
IS IT CLEAR?
Well, another option is to put winged instead of ballistic.

[Osipov9391]

Read the ColdWind comments for the PrSM information sheet.

[bk316]

Read the ColdWind comments for the PrSM information sheet.

I didn’t just read it, but also tried to find where the text came from. He didn't provide a link. As a result, I found something similar in the garbage dumps like the free press. BUT ANYWHERE about the production in 23 and 800 km is not. Then I went to the lockheed website. AFTER THERE THERE IS THE FINAL AUTHORITY AND NOT IN THE CIPSO'S METHODS. There is nothing similar there. Range 500, tests are underway. DOT.

[Poplar]

Himars shows itself as the best complex in its class for both OTRK and MLRS replacing.
Who would not say.

No matter what anyone says, the Hymers have an advantage only in that they receive target coordinates from NATO intelligence equipment. I deeply doubt that if we clash with NATO, their AWACS aircraft will calmly fly and give out target coordinates. I think that with their reconnaissance satellites we will be able to solve problems. So far, for certain reasons, we cannot block this channel for obtaining intelligence, which is why they are effective. And yes, at the moment, UAVs can only help us destroy them.

[Osipov9391]

In the airspace of Poland and Romania, their AWACS aircraft will not go anywhere - there is no threat to them.
They are covered by both their fighters and air defense systems.
And they are located far from the front line as a rule.
The USSR Air Force planned to send up to two fighter regiments to destroy one AWACS aircraft!
The same goes for satellites. We have nothing to shoot them down simply. When you have to reflect other blows.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Osipov9391

The USSR Air Force planned to send up to two fighter regiments to destroy one AWACS aircraft

Well, yes, but nothing has changed since Soviet times.
By the way, won't you indulge in a proof for two regiments?

[Negro]

Quote from: nik-mazur

nothing has changed since Soviet times

It has changed, of course. In the 80s, the technical level of the US Air Force and the USSR was considered comparable (most likely erroneously), now it’s ridiculous to talk about it.

What’s the question?

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Negro

In the 80s, the technical level of the US Air Force and the USSR was considered comparable ... now it’s ridiculous to talk about it

Yes, if you compare, for example, the S-300/400/500 with the Patriot, then it’s really funny ...

[Negro]

Quote from: nik-mazur

Yes, if you compare, for example, the S-300/400/500 with the Patriot, then it’s really funny ...

Really. The only modern mass system that has a positive experience in combat conditions, and some kind of curiosity that the spherical shape of the earth prevents from working.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Negro

some kind of curiosity that prevents the spherical shape of the earth from working

Hmm, did the spherical shape of the Earth prevent the Patriots in Saudi Arabia from knocking out Houthi homemade products?

[Negro]

Quote from: nik-mazur

did the spherical shape of the Earth prevent the Patriots in Saudi Arabia from knocking down Houthi homemade products?

Of course not. Heavy-class systems are not used against drones, especially not in the field, but in buildings. For fairly obvious reasons.

[Osipov9391]

Here: https://topwar.ru/177761-awacs-protiv-a-50-vozdushnoe-srazhenie-v-evrope.html

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Osipov9391

Here

I asked about documents - Charters, for example, or military manuals. Why the hell do I need a footcloth of fiction from some Demagogue?
The aviation boiler is a masterpiece, of course. About the meaninglessness of tanks, the author also got very excited ...

[Osipov9391]

AWACS-type AWACS aircraft always operate far from the front line or border - where fighters or air defense systems cannot reach them in range.
And always securely protected by their means.
And in relation to Himars, they generally have NO relation.
The calculations are guided by UAVs or informants by coordinates. And nothing else is needed.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Osipov9391

AWACS aircraft of the AWACS type always operate far from the front line or border - where fighters or air defense systems cannot reach them in range

AWACS aircraft are seen at 400, a maximum of 600 km. There are already air defense systems capable of hitting the same 600 km. There are also air-to-air missiles with a range of up to 300-400 km. Not to mention the fact that the job of fighters is to destroy enemy aircraft, even taking into account losses. Thus, AWACS aircraft move 500 kilometers away from the line of contact, where their usefulness becomes very doubtful. Or they fly much closer to the enemy with all the ensuing risks.
There are no invincible and invulnerable prodigies.

[Negro]

Quote from: nik-mazur

I asked about documents - Charters, for example, or military manuals

It seems that in the Russian documents of such a plan, the enemy’s aviation and air defense are conditionally absent. In fact, we have seen the implementation of such approaches in the last year. I won’t tell you about Chinese documents, I wasn’t interested.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Negro

in Russian documents of such a plan, the enemy’s aviation and air defense are conditionally absent

So let's write it down: allegations that two aviation regiments are needed to destroy one AWACS are a lie, a whistle and a provocation.
I didn’t understand about the approach - what exactly are we observing in your opinion?

[Osipov9391]

Now Russia has no fighters at all capable of quietly "getting close" to that AWACS and shooting it down.
We have a meager number of Su-35S and other tasks will immediately fall on them.

As for the destruction of an air defense missile system at a distance of more than 250 km, this is a theory and only a theory.
They know perfectly well where the positions of these air defense systems are and what their range of action is + electronic warfare equipment, just in case, not inferior to that of strategic aviation aircraft.

Then, the crew of that same AWACS, in the event of such a threat from the air defense system, will simply throw off a hundred or a couple of hundred meters of the ceiling - and disappeared.
Which will not affect the task in a special way.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Osipov9391

As for the defeat of an air defense aircraft at a distance of more than 250 km, this is a theory and only a theory

Is it? It seems like one or even two ukrosoplanes have already quite practically been shot down from a distance of more than two hundred kilometers.

Quote: Osipov9391

We have a meager amount of Su-35S and other tasks will immediately fall on them

What tasks can be more important than the destruction of reconnaissance aircraft?

Quote: Osipov9391

the crew of the same AWACS in the event of such a threat from the air defense system will simply throw off a hundred or a couple of hundred meters of the ceiling - and disappeared

Well, fuck off. But the men don’t know - they come up with some kind of anti-missile maneuvers, they shoot traps. But it turns out you can just go down a couple of hundred meters and the rocket flies past.

But in general, the meaning is clear: the American gloomy genius has once again created an invulnerable and invincible prodigy, which is impossible to fight, but you can give up or die.

[Negro]

Quote from: nik-mazur

It seems like one or even two ukrosoplanes have already quite practically been shot down from a distance of more than two hundred kilometers.

Russian Hartmann Konashenkov?

Quote from: nik-mazur

What tasks can be more important than the destruction of reconnaissance aircraft?

Any.

Quote from: nik-mazur

But it turns out you can just go down a couple of hundred meters and the rocket flies past.

If the aircraft is actually on the horizon, then it is not difficult to go beyond the horizon by lowering. However, AWACS does not fly alone, and often goes not beyond the horizon, but behind the growler.

Quote from: nik-mazur

the American gloomy genius has once again created an invulnerable and invincible prodigy, which is impossible to fight, but you can give up or die.

The American gloomy genius once again works, and does not talk about grandfathers 80 years ago.

[Negro]

Quote from: nik-mazur

So let's write it down: allegations that two aviation regiments are needed to destroy one AWACS are a lie, a whistle and a provocation

Yes, that's right.
AWACS cannot be destroyed at all - at least not a single such case has been recorded so far.

Quote from: nik-mazur

I didn’t understand about the approach - what exactly are we observing in your opinion?

)))
We are observing the combat work of the Aerospace Forces.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Negro

AWACS is generally impossible to destroy

Well, finally, humanity has created an invulnerable and invincible prodigy.
I’m embarrassed to ask, are you, by any chance, one of the witnesses of the mighty Himars and invincible AUGs?

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Negro

AWACS cannot be destroyed at all - at least not a single such case has been recorded so far

Yeah. And it’s also impossible to destroy an aircraft carrier of the Nimitz type, F-22 and F-35 aircraft, a destroyer of the Zamwalt type, Abrams X ... What has never fought with a serious enemy there?
The logic is touching, of course - if they have never been destroyed, then it is impossible to destroy ...

[Negro]

Quote from: nik-mazur

Well, finally, humanity has created an invulnerable and invincible prodigy.

Yes, very nice. However, we are talking about the American AWACS. A-50 is hardly distinguished by such a feature. Although, again, practice is the criterion of truth, the A-50 has not yet lost a single one either.

Quote from: nik-mazur

not one of the witnesses of the mighty Himars and invincible AUGs?

Are you missing something in Highmars or have you ever defeated AUG?

Quote from: nik-mazur

And it’s also impossible to destroy an aircraft carrier of the Nimitz type, F-22 and F-35 aircraft, a destroyer of the Zamwalt type, Abrams X ... What has never fought with a serious enemy there?

A serious opponent is serious because he understands where to climb more expensively.

Quote from: nik-mazur

if they have never been destroyed, then it is impossible to destroy ...

If they have never been destroyed, then the outfit of forces necessary for destruction cannot be reliably determined. Worse, the best weapons in the world are likely to be used in the best possible way - therefore, it makes no sense to evaluate the capabilities of a single sample, since the enemy will deal with all the forces available in this theater section. In the case of the Americans, overwhelming forces are usually available to them, except in cases of errors by the American command and / or political leadership. On which you can hope, but which you can not count on.

[BorzRio]

A strange conclusion - in retaliation for the failed breakthrough ... Yes, they discovered the battalion command post and shied away. If they had spotted him earlier, they would have shied away too.

[avib]

Khodakovsky suggested that the shelling was carried out by militants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in retaliation for an unsuccessful attempt to break through.

In revenge?! Destroyed the enemy headquarters in retaliation? What are they smoking there?

[Kronos]

Well, you need to somehow justify your next failure, so they mold a hunchback.

[egorMTG]

Quote: voice of reason

©

- Note to "Specialists" ... As for the LBS. In the Middle East, the warring factions use a home-made "shaitan - pipe", according to the mortar principle, where equipped gas cylinders are used as a projectile. I wonder if it is possible to use gas cylinders as a projectile, on the principle of a volume-vacuum explosion ....?

[voice of reason]

in serial execution on a caterpillar platform, this is called "sun", in wearable - "bumblebee"

[Igor_Sergeevich]

Quote: Alexey RA

Uh-huh... somewhere is a very precise definition. 150 shells per hectare for suppression only.

This is for 152 mm on the MPV covered, and for a 120 mm mortar, 360 minutes are needed per 1 hectare, that is, for a minbatr of 8 mortars, 45 pieces per mortar.

[Sasha Beznosikov]

We need ZKP, didn’t they really produce it. (Spare parts)

[DefenderofTruth]

We cannot avoid reaching Kiev and Odessa in this war, we cannot allow the West to keep the Nazi regime in these cities and to the east - if Ukraine retains the Armed Forces of Ukraine based on the results of the NMD, then it will be battle-hardened, the best NATO army, better than the US army, equal in strength of spirit to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

[gromovanton]

The dead have no shame. They are eternally remembered and honored. The question is how the command post of the brigade was revealed. Was there a spare gearbox. As with air defense cover. Was the air signal brought? Why didn't we cover their CP, Hymers?

[Kuzmitsky]

If someone knows the exact answers to all these questions, he is unlikely to give them in public access. And he will probably be right.