Military Review

Dark Age in the Caucasus

131
Dark Age in the Caucasus

The Kremlin has relied on unpopular politicians in Chechnya - on the father and son of the Kadyrovs instead of Alkhanov or Khasbulatov. Chechnya itself is split into two camps - a little more than half are in favor of an alliance with the Russian Federation, the rest are for an armed struggle against it. But this knowledge of the republic belongs to 2005 as well - later the social research in Chechnya, and in the whole of the Caucasus, ceased.

Strangely enough, but even in the years of independent Ichkeria, and later during the military actions in the republic, sociological research did not stop there. At the same time, the presence of several centers of power and opposing clans in Chechnya of that time ensured such truthfulness to such studies: obtaining false statistical data would immediately cause a natural disturbance in the opposite camp.

The figures of sociologists then showed one strange pattern: the Kremlin with maniacal persistence relied in Chechnya on not the most popular people.

So, the opinion poll about the most popular politicians in Ichkeria in 1999 gave the following figures: President A. Maskhadov received about 25% of votes - in 4 more times than leaders of the opposition Shura. The number of politicians who are trusted by the citizens of Ichkeria also included: Chairman of the Parliament R. Alikhadzhiev -14,7%; Deputy Prime Minister A.Zakayev - 13,8%; Mufti of Ichkeria A.-Kh. Kadyrov -10,6%; Brigadier General H. Gelaev - 8,5%; Brigadier General Sh. Basayev - 6,0%; Deputy Prime Minister T.-A.Atgeriyev 5,5%; former Deputy Prime Minister M. Udugov - 5,4%.

As we can see, Akhmat Kadyrov, who eventually led the new Chechnya, which again became part of Russia, was only 4 in popularity, losing 2,5 times to Maskhadov and almost 40% to Alikhadzhiyev. The rate of the federal government mow popular politicians, alas.

But even in 2005, representatives of the Kadyrov clan were significantly inferior in popularity to other Chechen politicians:


Another question related to relations with Russia. The poll was conducted in the 2003 year, only three years passed after the punitive operation of the federal troops, and, of course, this should have left an imprint on the attitude of the Chechens to the federal center. But here are the amazing results:

“If the question at the referendum were:“ Chechnya should be part of Russia or not? ”, What would you say?”

Almost 66% of Chechen residents linked the future of their republic with Russia. The greatest number of supporters of finding Chechnya in Russia (71%) is among the older age group, the smallest (61%) is among young people.

The statements of the Chechens, why they should be part of Russia, were like this:

“We all know that there is hatred, but on the contrary. We will not rise today without Russia, we will not recover, we will need God for how many years. Without Russia's help, Chechnya cannot exist. The geographical position will not allow, and now we can’t do the elementary nail ourselves ”.

At the same time, the majority of Chechens frankly stated that their armed struggle against Russia will continue (2003 year):


If in Chechnya in the first half of this decade, sociologists could make at least some measurements, then Dagestan always remained a “black hole” for them. Here is a description of the scientists from 2006 year, with what difficulties they faced in this republic:

“In some villages, due to prohibitive policies, it was necessary to conduct a“ snowball ”poll, i.e. the respondents required the quota were literally called by the head to the Administration, where they talked with the interviewer in separate rooms. The survey was especially difficult in the so-called “Sharia villages”, where the positions of Muslim spiritual leaders are strong and where the “Sharia republics” de facto exist.

The survey in these villages took place under the supervision of local imams, while women were interviewed only in the presence of men, and the interviewers noted that women, especially the young, were extremely embarrassed when answering questions.

The interviewers reported that some respondents, who initially declared their education as “higher”, responded that they had completed 8-9 classes before the university. Therefore, we asked the interviewers to find out and record the real education of the research participants. ”

The last time something more or less similar to a poll was conducted in the Caucasus in 2009, in Chechnya. The study was made by the local office “Poll Media”, so you can easily predict the results yourself.

Respondents were asked four multiple choice questions: how would you rate the performance of the President of the Czech Republic over the 2008 year? What qualities best characterize Ramzan Kadyrov as head of the republic? The most significant achievement of President R. Kadyrov in 2008 year? How do you evaluate the activity of the President of the Czech Republic R. Kadyrov at the federal level?

The absolute majority of respondents expressed support for the course conducted by Ramzan Kadyrov - 87,3% of respondents, 10,8% rated the policy of regional leadership as generally positive, 1,9% of respondents found it difficult to answer this question.

On the issue of the most significant achievement of the leadership of the region in the past 2008, 84,2% of respondents are convinced that the most significant and great achievement of the president is the opening of the Akhmat Kadyrov's Heart of Chechnya mosque in the center of Grozny.


In general, a predictable result. As well as the results of the federal elections in Chechnya, where 98-99% is provided to the “main force”.

More interesting is the survey results outside the zone of the national republics of the Caucasus, but where there is a large Caucasian diaspora in the Stavropol Territory. There is more freedom for the researcher, and frankness among the respondents. So, in 2008, in Pyatigorsk, a relatively representative survey was conducted.

The overwhelming majority among the respondents were Russians - 72,9% (in general there are still so many in the Caucasian Mineral Waters region), and there were also Armenians - 10,6%, Greeks - 4,3%, Ukrainians - 4,0%, Chechens - 1,8%, Georgians - 1,5 %, Karachai - 0,9%, Belarusians, Lezghins and Tatars - by 0,6%, Avars, Adygei, Arabs, Ingush, Kabardians, Koreans, Ossetians, Germans, Poles, - by 0,3%.)

“When transferring ethnic groups originating from other regions of Russia and other countries, the most frequently mentioned were: Chechens - 23,6%, Armenians - 20,8%, Vietnamese - 16,3%, Chinese - 15,0%, Azeris - 10,9%, Koreans - 7,7%, Dagestanis - 7,3%, Kabardians - 5,1%, Greeks - 3,2%, Ingush - 2,6%, Caucasians - 4,2%, Tajiks - 2,2%, etc. Most of the respondents expressed a neutral attitude towards these groups of the population - 66,8%. A negative attitude was expressed - 21,3%, a positive one - only 11,9%.

When specifying the groups that cause negative feelings, the respondents named: 17,4% - skinheads, 14,0% - nationalists, 5,0% - fascists, 3,9% -nazis, 2.7% - extremists. Also called ethnic groups: Armenians -2,3%, Roma -4,3%, Chechens -4,3%, Jews -1,2%, Vietnamese and Koreans in -0,8%, also Turks, Americans, Estonians, Ingush, Latvians, Arabs, Assyrians, Kabardians, Karachai, Khakas - by 0,4%.

When specifying groups that cause a positive attitude from ethnic groups, the names are: Ukrainians - 2,6%, Greeks - 2,1%, Jews - 1,3%, Belarusians and Ossetians in -0,9%, Germans, Georgians, Tatars, Americans, Japanese, Latvians - in 0,4 % ".

In general, the Stavropol people do not particularly like anyone, but they hate many.


What can we say according to the data of such opinion polls in the Caucasus? There is no civil nation here - just as in Russia as a whole, and ethnic nations are only forming. The Caucasus is not going to leave Russia, and, apparently, in this desire it will stand to the end. At the same time, the Caucasus is not homogeneous: if in Chechnya we succeeded in planting the leaderist subculture unusual for it, then Dagestan remained a liberty inherent to it historically. In the rest of the national republics of the Caucasus, they did not even have time to become ethnic nations - most likely, we are in for a “gap” between the duo-republics (Kabardino-Balkaria and Karachay-Cherkessia).

Well, and most importantly - Moscow sociologists in the last 3-4 of the year are not at all interested in what is happening in the Caucasus. And ignorance gives rise to many sorrows.

(drawings - Chechen artist Vakha)
Originator:
http://ttolk.ru
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  1. MilaPhone
    MilaPhone 16 November 2012 07: 01
    +8
    The dark age is not only in the Caucasus. People became embittered all over Russia. A bad atmosphere for a strong state.
    There is no power that would make everyone piss in one hole.
    1. Civil
      Civil 16 November 2012 08: 52
      +8
      Dark Age in the Caucasus


      when he was light there
      1. YARY
        YARY 16 November 2012 09: 46
        +12
        Pts interesting epistula !!!
        Especially the focus is interesting! Well, phrases like-
        after punitive operation


        didn't bother anyone?
        The writer shows pictures (fig.) Which I have already seen, and with a different, more open context!
        and further-
        In general, the Stavropol people especially do not like anyone, but they hate many

        Stavropol people ??? Hey lad, did you study at the Udugovo school?
        There is no civil nation here - as in Russia as a whole

        What is that?
        Where does this leaflet come from?
        Where the hell are the moderators?




        1. volcano
          volcano 16 November 2012 09: 59
          +7
          Quote: Ardent

          Pts interesting epistula !!!
          Especially the focus is interesting! Well, phrases like-
          after punitive operation

          didn't bother anyone?


          Ai-Ai Yury .... not in the eyebrow, but in the eye

          And here is this pearl

          The federal government’s bid to mow popular politicians, alas.



          Look .... they poor people worked day and night ... they stood at the machines, but they sowed bread, and then the feds once .... and a scythe ... and to the right ... and to the left ....

          The author ... Alas, you say by whom? According to Maskhadov? According to Basaev? according to Zakayev?
          Well-known politicians, leaders
          1. soldat1945
            soldat1945 16 November 2012 10: 19
            +4
            The article clearly states that in central Russia they less and less want to hear about the Caucasus and less and less study it, and the region is fundamental for Russia, and so the article gives away with unclear propaganda!
            1. alex-defensor
              alex-defensor 16 November 2012 19: 57
              0
              The figures of sociologists then showed one strange pattern: the Kremlin with maniacal persistence relied in Chechnya on not the most popular people.


              That's right, only dypak will bet on the most popular ones, since these most popular ones, feeling their "popularity", will be poorly controlled from the center. Classics of the genre.

              Who is Vaha? (Caption in figures)
          2. Kaa
            Kaa 16 November 2012 13: 06
            +2
            Quote: volkan
            The federal government’s bid to mow popular politicians, alas.
            Look .... they poor people worked day and night ... they stood at the machines, but they sowed bread, and then the feds once .... and a scythe ... and to the right ... and to the left ....
            The author ... Alas, you say by whom? According to Maskhadov? According to Basaev? according to Zakayev?
            Well-known politicians, leaders

            The author directly, a preacher of those who promote Salafism in the Caucasus:
            "This year, an unprecedented Muslim conference was held in Moscow, which brought together Islamic theologians and scholars from all over the world. As a result of the meeting, a fatwa was adopted, which is binding on all Muslims of Russia.
            It is written in Russian and in Arabic script: “They are not jihad and have nothing to do with it murders, assassination attempts, explosions committed by fanatics in the Caucasus and other regions under the slogans of jihad, the fight against apostates. The encroachment on life and property cannot be justified and justified by the fact of disbelief of the victims. ” The Salafi imams of Dagestan refused to sign this declaration. It so happened historically that over the past 15 years all the attacks in Russia were committed by followers of Salafism. Preachers of traditional Islam try to convince opponents that the "path of jihad" is a dead end. However, their words mean little among the Wahhabis. And the legal, moderate Salafis, whom the youth could listen to, distance themselves from discussing and condemning terrorism in their sermons. As a result, more and more “recruits” leave for the forests for the “holy idea” and the long ruble. Oddly enough, the fighters for Islam of the XNUMXth century sample (it was then that Wahhabism appeared) use the high technologies of kafirs with might and main. Now in Dagestan, sites of various vilayats and jamaats are popular. They can not only learn about the latest successes of the Mujahideen, but also listen to a religious lecture from the "respected Amir" with instructions on how to start your jihad journey better. They managed to put the war on the "infidels" in Dagestan on business lines, crossing the ideas of militant Salafism with the "concepts" of bulls from the mid-90s. The result was an ugly, but very tenacious and, most importantly, mutant that brings good income. http://www.kp.ru/daily/25985.4/2916801/
            In short, a business with information support, nothing personal religious.
        2. Fox 070
          Fox 070 16 November 2012 10: 27
          +1
          Quote: Ardent
          What is that?
          Where does this leaflet come from?
          Where the hell are the moderators?

          Andrey, this is not a question for moderators. It is necessary to ask administrators! sad
          1. YARY
            YARY 16 November 2012 10: 59
            +2
            Admins !!!!! AU !!!!!
            Where are you "punishing" for the Russian language ?!
            Where are you "punishing" for disagreeing with you ?!
            Warning only because you thought extremism in patriotism ?!
            HERE UUGOVSKAYA SHEET PUBLISHED !!!
            AUUUUUU!
        3. klimpopov
          klimpopov 16 November 2012 10: 55
          +1
          In general, the Stavropol people especially do not like anyone, but they hate many

          Yes, no, we are normal, kind, just such conditions ...

          YARY I agree, of which there are many leaflets!
        4. alexng
          alexng 16 November 2012 15: 01
          +1
          The article must have a Georgian trace. And in general, how did she get on this site, and even on public display?
        5. Bykov.
          Bykov. 17 November 2012 06: 28
          0
          The author, if not on the helm of Gelayev, then certainly sympathizes with him.
      2. General_Nogay
        General_Nogay 16 November 2012 11: 45
        0
        In the days of the USSR!
    2. Sandov
      Sandov 16 November 2012 21: 10
      +2
      MilaPhone,
      The ancient peoples in the Caucasus, and remained in antiquity, are a pity.
  2. Su24
    Su24 16 November 2012 07: 03
    -1
    Kali Yuga ....
  3. avreli
    avreli 16 November 2012 08: 11
    +2
    How the audience loves to come to words. Maybe this is a national sport. smile

    Well, who will bet on the popular politician? He is too independent.
    So - Maskhadov did not fit. Low-rated ones too - the cost of inflating the image is too high.
    Plus - a penchant for collaboration, plus - a tribal resource.
    Total - Akhmad Kadyrov.
    Maybe the bastards are behind the wall, but not fools * (the site of sharpness does not allow it).
    And by the way, they quickly realized that it makes sense to replace Alkhanov with Ramzan.
    For loyalty is higher, but the resource is less.
    And in general, in high offices they don’t read long texts.
    ...
    Speaking of classrooms.
    As you know, “Allah” dwells in them, who gives everything.
    But would "Allah" not give, yes, what, with what would bearded uncles dream of war in the square? With the "greyhounds".
    And here are Kalash, and RPG and "flies", and such "heroism" in the pictures seems to them.

    Multiply by zero the neo-Bolsheviks, and the national leaders reset themselves. wink
  4. UPStoyan
    UPStoyan 16 November 2012 08: 16
    +3
    To control the Caucasus, a firm hand and firm will are needed. No democracy works there. Respect and obey only those who are stronger.
    1. Cold
      Cold 16 November 2012 09: 16
      -4
      A firm hand is a decision only for a while. This will only alienate the peoples of the unity of Russia. Not everyone loves and still remembers the impositions of Russian culture in national republics, not only in the Caucasus. In addition, before the Caucasus, they did it like a cow, they didn’t build anything, the population didn’t occupy jobs wink
      1. Wertynskiy
        Wertynskiy 16 November 2012 10: 17
        +4
        Quote: Cold
        In addition, before the Caucasus, they reached it like a cow

        When is it interesting? I don’t remember something, and I haven’t read it anywhere. But isn't it the other way around?
        1. survivor
          survivor 16 November 2012 10: 44
          0
          as an option, the author has in mind the fact of using the oil reserves of Chechnya of Ingushetia. Ingushetia, in fact, gave all of its near-lying oil time to the Second World War.
      2. volcano
        volcano 16 November 2012 10: 59
        +3
        Quote: Cold
        In addition, before the Caucasus, they reached it like a cow


        -A lot of cows gave milk?

        - Yes, we have not seen milk yet. laughing


        Do not tell my slippers
        1. klimpopov
          klimpopov 16 November 2012 11: 01
          -1
          Well then you eat bread ...
          1. volcano
            volcano 16 November 2012 14: 53
            +1
            Quote: klimpopov
            Well then you eat bread ...


            None of Chechnya or Dagestan?

            Ay-ya-yi ... But I didn’t know? wink
            1. klimpopov
              klimpopov 16 November 2012 16: 38
              0
              From Stavropol and Krasnodar, is that the Volga region in your opinion?
              1. volcano
                volcano 16 November 2012 18: 28
                0
                Quote: klimpopov
                From Stavropol and Krasnodar, is that the Volga region in your opinion?

                Colleague, I do not understand where these regions are here?
                I'm talking about the Caucasus ..
                If you about the fact that the aftar also walked through the Stavropol people, then I support your righteous anger by 100 percent.
                1. survivor
                  survivor 16 November 2012 20: 18
                  +1
                  and what. Stavropol and Krasnodar is extremely Caucasus? nude nude ... sort of you are well-read ...)))
                  1. klimpopov
                    klimpopov 17 November 2012 09: 40
                    0
                    This is mine in the course of geography at the school pass, the border of the North Caucasus along the Kumomanic depression lies (geographically)
                2. klimpopov
                  klimpopov 17 November 2012 09: 39
                  0
                  The Stavropol Territory and Krasnodar, it seems like the Caucasus, too, though the North ...
        2. survivor
          survivor 16 November 2012 11: 11
          0
          we didn’t see any milk, but WWII won on Baku and Grozny oil !!! .....
          1. volcano
            volcano 16 November 2012 14: 59
            +2
            Quote: survivor

            we didn’t see any milk, but the Second World War won on Baku and Grozny oil !!! ..


            So what? How does this compare with separatism in the Caucasus?
            I would recommend reading the history of the Vainakhs in order to understand two things

            1. Peace with them is likely never ... I emphasize NEVER WILL
            2. All that the Soviet Union did with them ... was, as it were ... not just ....


            So there is only one conclusion ..... we tormented them (there was a reason), but as always, not without excesses, of course, but they will never forgive us for that ... That's all business ..

            And as for some kind of loyalty to Russia (according to the polls), it’s most likely just loyalty to THE MOST COW (RUSSIA) which gives VERY MUCH MILK (at least to Chechnya) ... but what happens if milk production drops, I think you no need to explain ...... Burenka they want to send to the slaughterhouse ...
            1. survivor
              survivor 16 November 2012 18: 34
              +2
              Who do you advise to read the pseudo-history of the Vainakhs? vainakh? hmm .... just the same, I know my story perfectly. I can get confused in dates, but not in events. All that history that you, my friend, read, was rewritten from the history of Vinogradov. Believe me, as the history of Russia itself has been rewritten more than once, so much of the history of the Vainakhs has been thrown over. read since, we know since ... a strange podkhol to one, separately taken republic. Russians are indignant when they hear that abroad they think of Russia as a country where bears walk in cities, play balalaikas, and all the people without exception are drunks. this is a cliche created by propaganda !!! but the Russian people themselves sometimes use the same cliché. no, what to study, if interested, the customs and beliefs of the peoples of their own country, but no, the story is the same, what a century !!! Ermolov said, "a good Chechen, a dead Chechen," and all subsequent history, unambiguously revolves around this definition. did you torment them? so you can call the genocide against your people? until it is written in the minds of both Russians and Chechens, as under the USSR, that WE ARE ONE PEOPLE, so all this bickering will be, in woe to us, the common people and to the delight of our sworn friends. that's interesting, I'm Ingush, but I know the history of Russia well. this knowledge allows me to respect and appreciate the indigenous people of this STATE! Moreover, I firmly believe that Russians, as a nationality, are a great and talented people! None of those present here (I can guarantee, if not, I will apologize in front of everyone) did not bother to study the history of the peoples included in Russia! and this is a very big, if not a fatal mistake !!! you are all shouting about nationalism, separatism and other things ... change, but sometimes you treat other peoples of Russia with a certain amount of chauvenism. shamelessly, comrade !!!
        3. Cold
          Cold 16 November 2012 19: 32
          +1
          Separatist sentiments accumulated over time. The war in the Caucasus was inevitable. To the federal government (Moscow) all the country's resources flocked In the Caucasus, the population grew by nothing to tie people so that he twice thinks that he loses if he kicks. Since it took the Russian people took custody of the Caucasus and other regions, then there is no need to bring the ratio between rich and poor 80 times. The Caucasus was a weak point from a geopolitical point. Resources do not need to be fought for the minds of people, to put it bluntly, but not thrown away like a rag ..
      3. UPStoyan
        UPStoyan 16 November 2012 12: 55
        +1
        How many do not milk the Caucasus, but you will not see milk. The desire to work honestly has never been and never will be.
        1. survivor
          survivor 16 November 2012 18: 37
          +1
          oh? I wonder who in 70-80-90 in the Stavropol, Krasnodar Territory, in the middle lane, built cowsheds and nightmares? stupid definition !!!
    2. mamba
      mamba 16 November 2012 13: 49
      +2
      in Chechnya, they succeeded in planting a leaderly subculture unusual for it.
      It is better to have one Chechen tsar who holds fellow tribesmen tightly and is loyal to Moscow than a bunch of field commanders with whom it is impossible to agree. And Caucasians are easier to buy than to win. The history of the Caucasian wars is a confirmation of this. Therefore, I completely agree that
      Quote: UPStoyan
      To control the Caucasus, a firm hand and firm will are needed. No democracy works there. Respect and obey only those who are stronger.
  5. Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 16 November 2012 08: 30
    +4
    Something seemed to me that it was some kind of dregs, and polls ...
    There is no intelligible policy in the Caucasus, and polls cannot help here ...
    1. favn
      favn 16 November 2012 09: 21
      +2
      Surveys can be made as needed by the customer. He who pays the money dances the girl.
      In general, I can hardly imagine the brigade of "independent" sociologists with these polls in the Chechen mountains. Will they go far from the nearest zindan?
  6. Aventurinka
    Aventurinka 16 November 2012 08: 49
    +5
    While the Caucasus lives in the tribal system, social. polls there make no sense.
  7. bairat
    bairat 16 November 2012 09: 04
    -7
    If in the early 90s the Russian Federation gave the Caucasian republics freedom of choice, then many victims could have been avoided and now it would not have been necessary to solve insoluble problems such as what to do with Caucasians in Moscow.
    I suppose that the patriots will flog my comment, because they say that you can’t squander the earth, but my opinion is that it is better to remove the gangrene and not wait for it to spread throughout the body. Gangrene is not an insult to Caucasians, but I speak as a comparison, we are too different and conflicts at the household level are inevitable.
    1. Fox
      Fox 16 November 2012 09: 17
      +3
      look a little further away from your nose, you will see more ...
    2. UPStoyan
      UPStoyan 16 November 2012 09: 20
      +4
      In order to solve the problem of Caucasians in Moscow, it is not necessary to give the republics of the Caucasus independence. There are other effective methods, and quite legal.
    3. favn
      favn 16 November 2012 09: 29
      +4
      In the early 90s, after Bori's phrase "take as much sovereignty as you can" Only the Moscow region did not speak about independence. And Tataria, Bashkiria, Siberia, the Far East, (especially Yakutia) all really talked about secession from Russia. The Caucasus was the first region, followed by the rest. Think of Albright. She very specifically then voiced the goals of the State Department. And if there were no blood in the Caucasus, there would be thousands of times more blood throughout Russia.

      As for the Caucasians in Moscow ... I have not seen Azerbaijanis, Armenians in Moscow? There was a war with the Georgians, are they also not in Moscow? And they are not Caucasians? No Tajiks, Uzbeks, etc.? And there are no problems with them?
      1. survivor
        survivor 16 November 2012 11: 28
        0
        you will remember the fact that Russia was among the first to declare independence! and obliged the autonomous republics to declare in order to then accept to sign a union treaty with them. I remember this time. The Supreme Council of the Chechen-Ingush ASSR was ordered to declare sovereignty! By whom? I think there is no need to explain! It was this fact that undermined Chechnya, Zavgayev preferred to accept the explicit side of either the GKChP or the Russian government, for which he paid ... The OKChN was created as a counterweight, which almost swayed towards the GKChP of the Armed Forces, and he was given a "face" ... The armed forces were simply thrown out of the building. Rallies began, and where there were rallies, there was lawlessness. there is never much freedom. I remember how the militiamen were afraid to go out in uniform on the street! the situation, even before that simple, began to deteriorate rapidly. if in Moscow the Emergency Committee led to casualties, then imagine what was happening in the periphery? the Nazis immediately raised their heads to economic demands, began to present nationalist ...
        that’s how the rash words of a political political fool denounced in an exaggerated form of order led to wars in the Caucasus. why to wars? because before the first Chechen there was still an Ossetian Ingush conflict! few people know that before him, Yeltsin, having arrived in Nazran to vote for the elections, at the rally promised to return the suburban area to Ingushetia. then with his promise (which he was not going to fulfill) he managed to get 100% of the votes at a practically 97.4% turnout. It all ended in blood. moreover, at that time, it was the civilian population.
      2. bairat
        bairat 16 November 2012 13: 28
        0
        Quote: favn
        As for the Caucasians in Moscow ... I have not seen Azerbaijanis, Armenians in Moscow? There was a war with the Georgians, are they also not in Moscow? And they are not Caucasians? No Tajiks, Uzbeks, etc.? And there are no problems with them?

        Against foreigners, you can enter a ban on entry, you can send all. And with the citizens of the Russian Federation, which are Caucasians, such methods of struggle do not work. They have every right to live throughout the country.
    4. klimpopov
      klimpopov 16 November 2012 10: 59
      0
      In Tajikistan (I just gave an example, I have nothing against the Tajiks, sorry if that), does independence solve this problem? Patriots are not here. You forgot that there were Russians in these republics.
      And the police should put things in order ....
      1. bairat
        bairat 16 November 2012 13: 40
        -3
        Quote: klimpopov
        You forgot that there were Russians in these republics.

        First of all, I think about them, Russians, Tatars and others like that. How many of them remain in Chechnya and Dagestan? Probably no longer remained, the Stavropol Territory and the Krasnodar Territory are in line.
        1. klimpopov
          klimpopov 16 November 2012 14: 25
          0
          So they will bite off piece by piece, we’ll set up Stavroplie Krasnodar, then Rostov? ...
          1. bairat
            bairat 16 November 2012 14: 51
            0
            Not only Rostov. Criminal wars for cities between the Caucasian diasporas are already underway in Siberia. It was then necessary to divide: here is yours, this is ours. And let them boil there in their cauldron, I don’t know at what stage of development they are now feudal?
            1. Ustas
              Ustas 16 November 2012 15: 42
              0
              Quote: bairat
              Criminal wars for cities between the Caucasian diasporas are already underway in Siberia.

              Do not drive the blizzard. I live in Siberia. We are quiet here.

              Quote: bairat
              It was then necessary to divide: here is yours, this is ours.

              Yeah, chichas! No yours. This is all ours. Our Russian ancestors mastered and conquered it. So throw your separatism in the trash.

              Quote: bairat
              And let them boil there in their cauldron, I don’t know at what stage of development they are now feudal?

              It doesn’t matter what stage of development, it’s important whose military bases there will be.
              1. bairat
                bairat 16 November 2012 18: 09
                0
                Quote: Ustas
                Our Russian ancestors mastered and conquered it.

                they won a lot of things and mastered, is everything yours now, no? what did you release Central Asia without a fight? it was necessary to destroy everything and drown in the blood. the Baltic states, Finland, Poland, the Caucasus, there will not be enough cartridges for everyone.
                1. dmb
                  dmb 16 November 2012 18: 31
                  +1
                  Only a very stupid person can talk about some kind of separation. This issue has been discussed more than once, but since I forgot to repeat it. Where will we draw the border, what will we do with those indigenous inhabitants of the Caucasus who do not live in Dagestan and not in Chechnya, what will we do with the Russians, Tatars, etc., living in the territory that the Caucasus considers to be their own. Yes, and whether to consider the indigenous population of those Russians and. etc., who have been living in the Caucasus for several generations? Let me remind you that the leaders of the gangs said that the borders should go near Voronezh. So answer yourself these questions, and if you are an honest person, the nonsense of separation will immediately fly out of your head.
                  1. bairat
                    bairat 16 November 2012 19: 25
                    0
                    I think that what is happening now is a fool. Most of them hate us. Intrabudgetary relations are more like paying tribute, cash flows go in one direction. Our law enforcement system is not able to fight their clans, they under no circumstances give up their. Trying to maintain the appearance of a federation, you risk destroying the whole country.
                    1. dmb
                      dmb 16 November 2012 19: 54
                      +1
                      Yes, what is happening today is nonsense. And you can eliminate this nonsense, only with the change of Power. Not individuals, but authorities. The law enforcement system will be able to fight only in one case, when the people working in it will serve the idea, not the ruble. PS And you did not answer any of the questions asked by me.
                      1. bairat
                        bairat 16 November 2012 21: 11
                        0
                        I did not answer because there are no simple answers to these questions; I do not see a civilized way out of this situation. The only thing, looking back, I see that it was necessary to part on the good.
            2. klimpopov
              klimpopov 16 November 2012 15: 58
              +1
              Appropriate authorities, diasporas and the like should be engaged in criminal disassemblies, believe not only Chechen and Dagestan, outside the Caucasus, few people distinguish between Armenians, Georgians, Chechens and Dagestanis, but this is important. And in conclusion, separating the territories you will get even greater gangrene, but having no opportunity to influence it, and now it’s difficult, again they won’t leave, they will demand the Caucasus to the Kumomanic depression and Rostov on the Don (and then the struggle between the republics will begin and again 300 years of ongoing massacre), so you show your weakness, and showing weakness, consider that your song is sung and a wooden mackentosh is already sewn, and then a chain reaction, and that’s all, and the N-th number of states in the territory of the once Great Empire where ENGLISH remained only in legends of old ... Well, something like I see it ..

              As the respected Ingush wrote here in the topics, whom I undoubtedly support, rephrase, in the Caucasus it is possible to restore order only by social measures under the strict supervision of the authorities and law enforcement agencies, but this is fantastic so far ...

              In general, read the comments of the Survivor, correctly sets out ...
              All problems are much more complex and deeper, you can’t just separate it, it will not separate ...
              1. bairat
                bairat 16 November 2012 18: 20
                -3
                Quote: klimpopov
                And in conclusion, separating the territory you will get even more gangrene, just having no opportunity to influence it, and now it’s difficult, again they won’t leave, they will demand the Caucasus to the Kumomanicheskaya Depression and Rostov to the Don

                14 republics separated from the USSR, they live quite civilized. Nobody attacks us. And the fact that someone wants to demand something additionally - here you already have to stand to the last.
                1. klimpopov
                  klimpopov 17 November 2012 09: 47
                  0
                  Oh, no one is attacking, they will now say face, the whole crowd will start to derban Muscovy (sorry for the slang) and whether they live in a civilized way, the big question is ... To paraphrase the words of the professor from the Heart of a Dog - "don't watch Russian channels in the morning" .. ...
              2. survivor
                survivor 16 November 2012 20: 03
                +1
                many thanks for the recognition of my humble work). just knowing the origins of the enmity, you can stop it. knowing the history of ALL the peoples of Russia, you can not only reunite the Republic of Ingushetia, but also prevent collapse in the future1! Believe me, the Caucasians know how to be good friends to those who are worthy of their friendship! and such a friendship cannot be destroyed by anything. But for this, you need to be friends yourself, and not pretend to be a friend. how many peoples are there in Russia? some assimilated, others not very much, but tearing off a piece now, we will not only weaken Russia itself, but also put on the brink of survival of those who believe in the inviolability of Russia. an interesting fact. 90.5% of the Ingush in the referendum on the withdrawal from Russia, voted in favor of staying within Russia. voted when Chechnya was disconnected. then, when the same Tatarstan demanded sovereignty !!! it says a lot !. how did Russia respond? Ossetian Ingush conflict? general unemployment? other "benefits of civilization"? no. I just drank some more finances through the offshore zone created in Ingushetia, and half-hearted half-measures that did not help the ordinary people in any way! Chechens just laughed at us !!! was the loyalty to a beggarly existence worth?
                1. klimpopov
                  klimpopov 17 November 2012 09: 53
                  0
                  Believe me, now such times, Russian friends do not abandon. It will be rewarded to those loyal to the Russian state (I sincerely believe in this, because if you do not believe in Russia, then there is no sense in living on its territory). And having separated the peoples of the republics simply perish in civil strife. England again, by the hands of Turkey ... According to the stories of my parents and grandfathers, I found it a bit, they lived well in the union and there were no problems between the nationals in the KCR, though the local peoples were allowed a little more ..
                  I repeat - the separation of any republics on the basis of the national sign of problems will not only not solve, but also add ...

                  Surviving, my hello to you! hi
                  1. survivor
                    survivor 17 November 2012 12: 51
                    0
                    and you do not have to be ill). the fact is that I still remember. when we came to Grozny to visit relatives for the summer, we all, the children, played together. but what were they playing there? and they ate, who would feed, and slept in whose yard the game stopped. Yes, and sometimes fought, and made peace ... there is something for adults to learn from children! We were proud of the fact that we live in the USSR, they were proud of OUR army, they deified OUR fleet and Pagran troops! that on time, that on Easter, everyone ran through the streets and knocked on every house - "Christ is Risen" or "March of the mares helt". no matter who came, everyone was waiting for sweets and sweets, eggs and pasta))) I still adore them )
                    under the Soviet Union, they often warned, "the enemy is not asleep," it turns out we listened badly !!! for me, who grew up in northern Kazakhstan, the land of the Cellinites and the International, to this day it is wild to hear conversations like, "Yes, he is not Russian, what a savage from him, you take?" he himself never paid attention to nationality, but always paid attention to a person. if a person is a MAN, then I tried to be worthy of his friendship, but if a human, then he is not worthy of it!
  8. VadimSt
    VadimSt 16 November 2012 09: 32
    +5
    only three years have passed since the punitive operation of the federal troops
    It is enough to read to this place, and that’s all ..........
    The article smells of "zakazukha" and intolerance towards other nationalities, and not a reminder of sociological research in Ichkeria.
  9. Middle-brother
    Middle-brother 16 November 2012 09: 34
    +3
    recently re-read Hadji Murad Tolstoy (or rather, listened to a radio play in mp3, did not read it in childhood). Nothing changed. You can talk with them only from a position of strength. And peace talks are pure fiction, actually paying tribute. What is happening now.
    I consider sociology a pseudoscience, and this article is an additional confirmation of this. And the bet made on the Kadyrov clan played to the full.
    I apologize for the harshness
  10. Wertynskiy
    Wertynskiy 16 November 2012 10: 24
    +2
    Strength, peace enforcement, complete disarmament of the entire population without exception, universal education and normal work. Of course, strong and authoritative people should be put in the region, there is nothing to be done, EAST. But somehow, among other things, everyone forgets about the effectiveness and literacy of managers. Those individuals who now rule the Kakaz republics have one method, ask Moscow for as much money as possible, and fill them with all their problems. Sad but true. At the same time, not forgetting about yourself loved ones.
    Plus, the uncertainty of the central authorities in this region.
    1. survivor
      survivor 16 November 2012 11: 02
      +1
      if you choose between force and economic methods, then the latter is preferable, since it is education and the availability of normal employment that will lead to peace. military actions, however, can only lead to a cease-fire for a short time ... how can you not understand, not only in the Caucasus, but also in other areas, any attempts to force coercion to anything, ultimately led to an escalation of the conflict. only the presence of stability and a life outlook, coupled with tough but fair laws, can put out such fires. Remember, when after the first Chechen Russia funded the restoration of Chechnya, the workers continued or received a penny. or ..... In Ingushetia at that time, unemployment was 93%. When in Rostov, a subsidiary received 500 rubles a day, builders in Igushetia received, at best, 200. and so in all sectors. Why do you think work in the militia was so desirable? Yes, because bribes made it possible to make ends meet and feed a family. there was one factory in all of Ingushetia! the same problem in Chechnya. with general, non-governmental financing, an ordinary person who does not work in government bodies or the Ministry of Internal Affairs received a penny. I still remember the time when laying a land mine cost $ 200 .... and there were no alternatives ... any nationality put in a similar position, and even heated from the inside by all kinds of agitators, will behave similarly. Is it any, nationalist, separatist, sect is there an idea. finds its soil precisely in those regions where there is a lack of education and stability. remember at least what they showed the inhabitants of the late USSR on television, and what they saw in the street .... what did it lead to? don't watch the parallels?
    2. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 16 November 2012 11: 06
      +2
      Education and normal work - then not only in the Caucasus will live well ...
      1. survivor
        survivor 16 November 2012 11: 14
        +1
        this is true. had order and stability in the whole of Russia in the 90s there would not have been this war. in this case, the Caucasus-litmus test of Russia.
        1. Ustas
          Ustas 16 November 2012 15: 46
          0
          Quote: survivor
          be in the 90s throughout Russia order and stability,

          90s is a snowball that grew in the 80s
          1. klimpopov
            klimpopov 16 November 2012 16: 02
            0
            Expand the answer please, I caught the thought, but I would like to be more specific.
  11. afire
    afire 16 November 2012 10: 51
    0
    tuftology, article "-"for garbage statements and idiotic pictures, fuck such afftoroffs on trial
  12. neri73-r
    neri73-r 16 November 2012 12: 49
    +1
    Article - PROVOCATION !!!
  13. GP
    GP 16 November 2012 13: 38
    +1
    The article is provocative.
    If we proceed from the position that power is primarily control, then everything will fall into place. Actually, from here comes the bet on the most controlled representatives in regions with increased separatist sentiments, where such candidates will be the least popular.
  14. taseka
    taseka 16 November 2012 14: 57
    0
    It’s bad that the analysts were mistaken! It is well known that national leaders with golden pistols and assault rifles - end their activities, let’s say so - disastrously !!!
  15. hrych
    hrych 16 November 2012 17: 02
    +6
    Please replace the Wahhabi pictures with this. Who did not recognize is not a roast pig, but Shamil Basayev.
  16. survivor
    survivor 16 November 2012 19: 39
    0
    well, I’ll tell you a bedtime story. maybe after reading you, my dear readers, you will understand that history does not tolerate one-sidedness. The tale is about Ingushetia, but in Chechnya it was about the same. you can then plunge me into the abyss of minuses, but first, please read and ponder. action tales of the 18-19th century. so:
    Ingushetia, as you undoubtedly know, is divided into mountain and flat. mountainous Ingushetia is located in the Dzheyrakhsky gorge and at the moment .... belongs to North Ossetia. but the tale is not about that. during the Caucasian wars, Cossacks began to settle on the territory of planar Ingushetia. on the one hand, a wise decision, a kind of buffer between the Caucasian peoples and directly Russia. and everything would be fine, but they began to settle on the lands of planar Ingushetia. thus a chain of Cossack settlements appeared. Cossacks, not ordinary soldiers. these are irregular troops. that is, at ordinary times, they plow the land, sow bread, raise cattle and do other agricultural work. guess WHERE THE LAND was bestowed on the Cossacks? guessed it? right. Ingush. they began to push all the people back to the mountains. strangely enough, the Ingush were not very happy about the prospect of being left without arable land. the mountains could not feed everyone. there were four options left, or go to hire a Cossack in farm laborers, for a measure or two of wheat or corn, rent YOUR land from the same Cossack for 50-60% of the harvest, die out from starvation, or, as an option, go rob. I must say, the Ingush robbed, mostly the same Cossacks, as well as postal and government stagecoaches. ordinary people did not touch. those who robbed the poor, the Ingush themselves despised and did not render assistance to them.
    So there was a movement called abrechestvo. This state of affairs has survived right up to 1917. the new government returned the land to the people. Naturally, the Ingush, for the most part, supported it. who does not believe, read about the defense of the three villages from the Denikin troops. the villages of Keskem (Kabarda), Sagopshi (Ingushetia), Pseidakh (Chechnya). on the line of these villages, the Caucasian peoples stopped Deniken, who were eager for Vladikavkaz. stopped, despite the lack of artillery. one small arms. the mountaineers could not continue the resistance for a long time, but they still wondered the time to strengthen the defense of the city. I don’t argue, there were many Ingush in the ranks of the white, among other things, like the Kabardins, Ossetians, Georgians, Russians, but the bulk were sympathetic with red.
    my grandfather, the Bolshevik of 1917. First Secretary of the GORKOM party in Vladikavkaz. one of the old friends S.Ordzhonekidze and S.M. Kirov. told me a lot about the history of my people. it was from him that I received a love of history.
    such a fairy tale.
    1. Chicot 1
      Chicot 1 16 November 2012 20: 18
      +3
      Respected survivor, and indeed a wonderful tale you have set out here. I already started a tear. I’m buying up the truth ... But tapericha, however, in fact, so to speak ...
      The most "flat" Ingush settlement was Alkhasty. Yes, yes, those same Alkhasts ... Who does not know what kind of settlement it is, let them look at the map ...
      Cossack villages along the line of Sunzha-Assa appeared after the end of the Caucasian war. For example, the village of Nesterovskaya (one of the closest to the Alkhastas mentioned) was founded in 1861 ...
      And before you mention the three mountain villages that were defending themselves from the forces of the Volunteer Army, you would, dear survivor, they would also mention the village of Field Marshal (in common parlance Fetma or Khetma), which was burned by the comrades from Ingush villages who succumbed (and obviously not without pleasure!) to the promises of the Bolsheviks ... Drotsenko according to the temperance of the mountain villages and bringing them to the slightest degree of order. By the way, these were very successful actions, for the mountaineers understood the language of power immediately. What does it say "in years" ... Or am I wrong about that? ..
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay 16 November 2012 22: 55
      -1
      Quote: survivor
      well, I’ll tell you a bedtime story. maybe after reading you, my dear readers, you will understand that history does not tolerate one-sidedness. The tale is about Ingushetia, but in Chechnya it was about the same. you can then plunge me into the abyss of minuses, but first, please read and ponder. action tales of the 18-19th century. so:

      Very reminiscent of the history of our people !!
      Only gave our territories to the Armenians !!
  17. tupolev-95
    tupolev-95 16 November 2012 20: 00
    +4
    The topic is extremely painful. In reality, there are only two ways out - a branch to the devil (a thorn, checkpoints, all "fellow countrymen" - to their historical homeland and let them live as they want) or brutal suppression at the root, no flirting with specific princes, no feeding at the expense of the federal budget, in full pull up for inciting ethnic hatred, celebrate religious holidays outside the city, in nature, and not in the center of Moscow, the Caucasus understands and respects ONLY FORCE (remember Ermolov) BUT FOR THIS IT IS NECESSARY TO CHANGE YOURSELF, BECOME OWNERS ON YOUR LAND
  18. survivor
    survivor 16 November 2012 20: 13
    -2
    His? ... well, well. Own land. This is where you are not spoiling! Own land, this is what you protect!
    Ermolov remembered? .... well, the bloodsucker is worthy of memories. where it was possible for the world to solve everything, this generalka, not the most gifted, I must say, launched a full-scale war. Honor him and praise for this. while you will instead of your head, think with ambition, no good fucking will come out !!! empire is built by giants-destroy, pygmies! the lot of pygmies to sit and be proud of their former strength! Be smart and strong and many countries will be honored for the greatest honor of joining you !!! just be strong, sooner or later there will be a power against. just be smart, fools will find a way to destroy! The Caucasus respects first of all dignity, intelligence and then power!
    1. tupolev-95
      tupolev-95 16 November 2012 20: 47
      +6
      I was born and raised in Grozny, my father was born and raised there, my great-grandfather was born there, to my ancestors, the Terek Cossacks, Tsar Ivan Vasilyevich the Terrible granted land on the Terek, after 91 I saw the "dignity, intelligence and strength" of the Caucasus (a crowd on one or with a weapon on the unarmed) they simply go berserk with impunity and for them, people, these are those who are of the same blood with them, all the rest are subhumans. And about "crap" - did the Russians create the infrastructure, they worked and never lived at someone else's expense in the Caucasus, which the Chechens themselves created in Chechnya? Yeltsin and his gang abandoned the Russians to the mercy of all the national republics, and now immigrants from the Caucasus and the Middle Asians do whatever they want in Moscow. Ermolov is a hero of the war of 1812 and in the Caucasus he acted in accordance with the situation, unlike the generals of 1995 and to this day, effectively.
      1. survivor
        survivor 16 November 2012 21: 01
        -4
        if you, as you say, grew up in Grozny, please answer me that the Chechens have always been animals? or after 91 years of steel?
        the king granted the land .... well, but who inhabited these lands before? Were they just empty? when I talked about "crap" I did not mean you. the same applies to everyone who lives in our country! I am not making excuses for those who are crap now in Moscow or other cities of Russia. The Chechens themselves created Chechnya, just as the Russians created Russia, you don’t think so. I absolutely don’t argue with you about what Russia brought to the Caucasus !!! what Yeltsin and his comrades have done is called in one word - treason !!!
        1. tupolev-95
          tupolev-95 16 November 2012 21: 45
          +5
          I'm talking about what I saw and I know for sure. What offended them in 91? Nothing, just felt the weakness of the central government, impunity, immediately remembered some imaginary insults. And during the war they were "accidentally" evicted? There were no gangs in the mountains for several thousand? Nobody welcomed German saboteurs? I am not a Stalinist, I was not there then, it's hard for me to judge. But I know too well what happened in the 90s and I see what is happening now. Either the Russians will remember who they are and take back their country, or it will end badly, and for everyone.
        2. hrych
          hrych 16 November 2012 22: 11
          +6
          Dear Magamed, besides activities in the Caucasus, Ermolov is a participant in all the famous wars of the Empire, starting from the time of Suvorov, his entire service is continuous heroism and the word of the general general cannot be borne by him. In the Caucasus, where any other commander of the enlightened West or tyrannical East would simply cut out for resistance, including and Ingush, he preferred deportation, crowding out, etc., which you actually noted. I am generally amazed at your negative attitude towards Stalin, who, away from sin, sent you to the place where the population was actually evacuated from the occupied territories, than you, as an ethnic group, saved it, because according to the laws of wartime, they could also clean it up.
          1. survivor
            survivor 16 November 2012 22: 31
            -3
            I assure you, I don’t have any negative attitude towards Joseph Visarionovich. not only that, I understand perfectly well that eviction was only an occasion not only to save the ethnos from complete destruction (although among the Russian nationality traitors were also enough), but also to try to civilize. so I ask you not to blame me. I'm just trying to convey to Vasto, where the roots of this enmity are hidden. To do this, I have to think and give arguments precisely on the part of the Caucasian peoples. For I am still Caucasian. history does not tolerate emptiness. every action in the past, like circles on the water, extends to the future. to understand the situation, it is worth delving into our common history, and not try to solve the problem by force. and let’s begin to resemble a savage trying to fix a computer using a stone tapor!
            1. hrych
              hrych 16 November 2012 22: 54
              +4
              I would like to learn more from you, as a participant in the events, especially about the Ingush-Ossetian conflict, about which there is little information. Yes, and History requires you to document. In general, it's time to write memoirs, Dear.
              1. survivor
                survivor 16 November 2012 23: 06
                +1
                oh. I can’t now objectively approach all those wars. that fell to my lot. too much requires analysis, but to him, impurity, I cannot approach. besides, I don’t have the whole picture. so, only small episodes of a small person.
                1. hrych
                  hrych 16 November 2012 23: 19
                  +2
                  These episodes must be documented necessarily.
                  1. survivor
                    survivor 16 November 2012 23: 42
                    0
                    oh man !!! I have been trying for a long time to forget all this (((. through these events I become what I am now, a fragment, stepson of my Motherland (. other things, this is not here, and moreover, not now.
                    1. hrych
                      hrych 17 November 2012 00: 27
                      +2
                      I wish you all the best and good health.
                      1. survivor
                        survivor 17 November 2012 00: 35
                        +1
                        thank. same to you
      2. survivor
        survivor 16 November 2012 22: 09
        -1
        imaginary grievances? well, I dare to remind you that it was not the Chechens who started the war in Russia, but the Russians in the Caucasus. not the Chechen general Ermolov walked fire and sword through the Russian villages, but slightly the other way around. not Chechens claimed to be Russian land, but Russians to Chechen. nor Chechen Cossacks stood their villages on Russian soil ....
        it’s possible to continue indefinitely. By the way, I was beaten by the crowd for being Ingush and it was long before 91. However, I didn’t become embittered and didn’t stop respecting the Russians because of any guano, sometimes in this great nationality present.
        1. tupolev-95
          tupolev-95 16 November 2012 22: 53
          +5
          How long have they been waiting! And here is such a moment, a sin not to take advantage! What were the highlanders called in the 19th century? Predators. And no one attacked the village? No one went on the raids? Did the Turks invade anyone? In the 91st there were no skins, the Russians did not hate non-Russians, there was no Manezh. But in Chechnya there was a massacre. The sowing wind will reap the storm. I do not want this storm, although I have every reason.
          1. survivor
            survivor 16 November 2012 23: 23
            -1
            who didn’t attack the villages? attacked! and the Cossacks attacked the villages and you can not tell me that this was only as punitive measures. remember below, I wrote why this happened. Yes, the Turks nakusivili.Who argues. however, the Cossacks more than once Poles barked. remember the time of troubles. and on Kalka the brodnik pointed the way to the Tatars. which of this? there was no playpen, but there were other places. in particular, Kazakhstan. You have reasons, I also have them, that we will continue to sow hatred and intolerance? my best friend in Grozny, Alexin Silkin. from the Don Cossacks. when the Chechens pressed him, he asked me not to get involved and pass by. I didn’t listen. so what? Do I hate Chechens now? because of a couple of three cho ... s? Ossetian OMON put me under fire and my neighbors wrote the denunciation. He is a Tatar, she is Ukrainian. What should I hate ALL THESE NATIONALITIES now? no, I stuck my hatred deep in .... however))), I won’t go deep into the anatomy). I specifically hate Yeltsin. I have every reason! I hate a labeled bear. I have reason to hate them! but how can I hate Russians because of a couple of B.L. how can I judge the whole nationality by the actions thereof? I'd rather judge Russians by Chkalov, Gagarin, Pushkin, Tchaikovsky and other worthy sons of this nation !!!
            1. klimpopov
              klimpopov 17 November 2012 10: 09
              +1
              One moment, I want to ask a question, why did Russia come to the Caucasus and when did this happen? Now everyone is discussing the immediate war in the republics. What Turks would be better for you? (I am for the North Caucasus).
              1. survivor
                survivor 17 November 2012 14: 11
                0
                no. Turks would not be better, in other matters, like the Persians. any conqueror, this is bad! .... you can’t pose the question of how you conquer the best.
                1. klimpopov
                  klimpopov 17 November 2012 15: 19
                  0
                  Nevertheless, the Russians showed themselves to a lesser extent as conquerors, I understand that there is no subjunctive accumulation in history, and nevertheless, the Turks would vryat, for example, ceremonies ...
                  1. survivor
                    survivor 17 November 2012 16: 06
                    0
                    neither you, nor I, nor anyone else would undertake to predict how and what could have happened if history had gone the other way. the point is not whether it was better, no, but history has already passed this segment. The stone has already started circles in the water, you need to study the gap, not bury yourself in it, but find the strength in yourself to move forward together. it's hard to do, but really .... it just takes patience and time. patience will not let us be led by old grievances, and time will extinguish enmity. Before they stopped trusting the Russian leadership in the Caucasus, two generations have already grown up, so count how many generations should grow up in a stable, developing state, with excellent education, employment, health care and culture, so that the people would not even have the thought of disconnecting? for often, exactly how Caucasians are accepted in Russia confirms their "peculiarity" if they simply cease to pay attention to them, and the police will treat ALL citizens of Russia in the same way during arrest, the media will no longer focus on their antics, this "peculiarity" is simply will burst like a soap bubble. And then, this PR, albeit negative, simply plays a role for the destabilization in Russia and intimidation of its inhabitants. instead of paying attention to social problems, to corruption, to the collapse of the economy and the army, most of the attention is switched to the search for an internal enemy. when they say “in Russia” and “in Chechnya,” people somehow forget that they are talking about Russia, and Chechnya is only a part of this very Russia. a seed of discord has long been sown in our minds. even at the household level. it is this seed that we must uproot from our consciousness. only by accepting the postulate that whoever we are by nationality and religion, WE ARE ALL CITIZENS OF THE ONE STATE! FOR EACH OF US THE LAW IS EQUALLY DEMANDING AND EQUALLY FAIR. ANY OF US HAS THE RIGHT TO LIVE IN THE TERRITORY OF ITS STATE IN ANY REGION AND LOCATION WHERE ITS WORK WILL BE PREFERRED FOR THE STATE, WHERE EACH OF US CAN LIVE, AND DO NOT WORRY, DO NOT FEAR! when this happens, the word "Russian" will not become a flawed substitute for the word "Russian", but precisely what it should be, the definition of a person by place of residence. no one was indignant when they called us Soviet people !!!!
      3. Yarbay
        Yarbay 16 November 2012 22: 59
        -2
        Quote: Tupolev-95
        after 91, I saw the "dignity, intelligence and strength" of the Caucasus (

        and before that what did you see ??
        You personally mean no one can beat one of the Caucasians ??
        And you are now a Cossack in Armenia ??
        1. hrych
          hrych 16 November 2012 23: 15
          +4
          Health You Alibek, genocide is the most vile thing that the Chechens have done, but at least a little comfort that most of the leaders of Ichkeria have been eliminated. In general, for Russians, this is a sick mazol, like You Karabakh, and Roman is still from those places. Ethnic cleansing itself is disgusting, but if it can not be avoided except mass slaughter there is at least deportation.
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 16 November 2012 23: 19
            +1
            Quote: hrych
            Health You Alibek, genocide is the most vile thing that the Chechens have done, but at least a little comfort that most of the leaders of Ichkeria have been eliminated. In general, for Russians, this is a sick mazol, like You Karabakh, and Roman is still from those places. Ethnic cleansing itself is disgusting, but if it can not be avoided except mass slaughter there is at least deportation.
            Yes, I'm not talking about that dear friend !!
            You see, a friend says that they can be attacked by a crowd, and often I hear this !!
            I don’t know with us, I’m talking about my yard, the city, it was always considered unworthy, and I’m sure that it was like that in Grozny and other Caucasian and probably Russian cities too !! Comrade wrote that when he saw the crowd after 91 years, he understood * mind , honor and conscience * of the Caucasus !!
            And for the killings of peaceful people you know my personal attitude and this is independent of nationalities !!
            I hate the Armenian fascists with every cell of my body, but I will never offend women and children to the throne or unarmed!
        2. tupolev-95
          tupolev-95 17 November 2012 08: 57
          0
          I am a serviceman, like all my ancestors. There can always be another force regarding massacre-force. Armenians in general are a separate issue, for 4 years of service they had 2 conflicts, both times there were fewer of us, both times they received. But here it is very rare, mainly we (Russian military personnel) are positively treated.
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay 16 November 2012 22: 57
      +1
      Quote: survivor
      His? ... well, well. Own land. This is where you are not spoiling! Own land, this is what you protect!

      Gold words!!!
  19. survivor
    survivor 16 November 2012 20: 36
    0
    Chicot 1,
    Wow ... Does anyone Alkhasty know? mmmm.interest.a Nazran.or if you correctly call Nasyr court? and Achaluki? and many others? again, did you remember the Field Marshal? and who will remember the thread on whose land it is located? WHAT IS ALSO PRIMARY RUSSIAN EARTH, AS A MIDDLE STRIP? that the Cossacks in this village were saints and arable land shared with poor neighbors? Well, well))) can you recall what any attempts to resolve by force this issue came across? Yes, Ingushetia does not equal the whole of Russia, but the Ingush did not bow their heads peacefully !!! Can you recall Gunib? or from another fifteen villages, where they perished more than once, but were they even allowing the invader, an order of magnitude better than the armed ones and in a larger number, to squeeze out?
    and your avaricious tears, they don’t touch me either. In the Caucasus, it’s not customary for men to cry !!!
    1. Chicot 1
      Chicot 1 17 November 2012 00: 32
      +3
      About Alkhastas, as you see, they know. And about Nazran. And about Karabulak. And about Sernovodsk ... Something else to list from the settlements of the Ingush Republic (it is also the smaller part of the former Chechen-Ingush Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, previously called the Grozny region)? .. No question, we will list ...
      But on whose land the Cossack villages were located, the question was very, very interesting. And of those that are backfilled ... Here you are, dear survivor, list the names of the settlements of the lowlands of present-day Ingushetia that took place before the mid-nineteenth century. Moreover, it is desirable to indicate their more or less accurate topographical position. Were those? ..
      And another unpleasant incident, however, which is a historical fact - the resettlement of the Ingush (as well as the Chechens) to the plains was entirely the initiative of the tsarist (read "Russian") administration. Kag-bae shouldn't forget about it ...
      Regarding the bunch of unclaimed Ingush heads and Gunib, let me ask you a curiosity - since when did he (aul Gunib) become Ingush? .. Don’t tell your colleagues on the site with such right-and-forward statements ...
      And about my stingy tears ... Well, by God, to me parallel to the surface, the fact they touched someone or not. For tears appear not only from sadness, but also from laughter too ...
      And one more thing - I perfectly understand that the person of the "MIDDLE STRIP" you mentioned does not really make the difference between a Chechen and an Ingush, or a Dargin and a Lak. He knows no more about the local Caucasian topography. As well as in history. By itself, you can drive it over the ears. But by God, you shouldn't even try to break off such numbers with me ...

      PS Dear hrych asked for some facts from the history of the Ossetian-Ingush conflict ... Well, if you please ...
      Tentatively, within a week, residents of the Ingush ethnic group of settlements located on the territory of the Prigorodny district received telegrams of different contents, but of the same orientation (invitations to weddings, funerals, birthdays, etc.). Most of them (the bulk of their women, children and the elderly) left their homes before the outbreak of hostilities ...
      Unidentified persons attacked the location of warehouses with weapons of the Ministry of Internal Affairs VV. A sentry (cadet of the Kirov Military School) was killed (stabbed) ...
      The conflict ended only after the introduction of troops into the territory of the Prigorodny District. "Russian occupants" separated the warring parties (that is, "hot Caucasian guys"). In fact, they prevented them from continuing to destroy each other ...
      1. survivor
        survivor 17 November 2012 00: 46
        -1
        with Gunib, I admit. not right. but for the rest ....... the descent of the Ingushein plane initiated the tsarist government? hmm ... then where did you, the most amiable nonsense, have you subtracted? Then answer me a question, the meaning of this relocation, if the arable land has already been occupied? doom of a whole ethos to starvation?
        the second question, then whose corpses were found not buried with burns on the chest, excised genitals, if all the women and children left their homes? Did you collect these corpses? Did you see them? I personally left Mochko yurt in a hurry in a crowd of people like me. then explain to me the fact who was being defended in a military town in Vladikavkaz? maybe you don’t know? or the appearance of crosses on the warps of the Domino families of Setins? You know a lot. It's good. but where do you get such unbelievable information? I will not specifically write your memories. Let us judge the forum users. Google and Wikipedia to help them.
        here is the stingy help from wikipedia. on the seed, so to speak). now there is a lot of information, but no one is looking.
        Previous events

        .... "In October 1992, a series of murders of citizens of Ingush origin took place on the territory of the Prigorodny District. On October 20, an Ossetian armored personnel carrier crushed an Ingush girl, and two days later, workers of the Ossetian traffic police shot two Ingush [16]. Also on October 20, the State Commission of Russia after negotiations with the leaders of the People's Council of Ingushetia (NSI) made a decision to draw the border between North Ossetia and Ingushetia as of February 23, 1944, ie the Prigorodny District was supposed to become part of Ingushetia, but the Ossetian side opposed this [17 ] .October 24, in the capital of Ingushetia, Nazran, a joint session of the three regional councils of Ingushetia and the deputy group of the Prigorodny district of North Ossetia "expressing the will of the Ingush people and in order to protect their relatives living in North Ossetia" adopted a decision that contradicts Russian legislation
        “To unite the volunteers in self-defense units and organize their duty in all the settlements of the Prigorodny region of North Ossetia, where the Ingush live. The detachments should be on duty until the transfer of all lands torn away by the Stalinist regime under the jurisdiction of the Ingush Republic "...
        1. Chicot 1
          Chicot 1 17 November 2012 01: 30
          +1
          Fortunately, we sorted it out with Gunib ... Let's deal with the rest. The initiation of the resettlement of mountain peoples from the mountainous to the flat part was dictated by the desire to take these under greater control from the Russian administration. Is this nonsense? .. Not at all. For this fact is described in the works of Soviet historiographers. You should not suspect them of distortion (or distortion). For one simple reason - their sympathies (solely for ideological reasons) were on the side of the highlanders, who (according to the unanimous opinion of the Soviet historical school) "fought for their freedom against the colonialist policy of the tsarist government" ... I deliberately put this phrase in quotation marks, because you can find its analogues (almost literally) in any monograph of the Soviet period devoted to the Caucasian war ...
          The condemnation of an entire ethnos (people) to starvation (or other) death is nothing more than genocide. And in those days, such things were brought to a logical conclusion - the complete disappearance of the ethnos (people). The Ingush were exterminated? .. No. And you are proof of this ... But the Indians of North America were much less fortunate. This is a kag-bae for comparing "Russian colonialists" and "democratic Americans" ...
          You know no worse than me about the causes of the outbreak of conflict in the Prigorodny district. Personally, I was not there. I was about fifty with a keme tail south. But I had to travel through Vladikavkaz. And often. And I had to communicate. A lot of. And I knew many with whom I had to communicate well and I had no reason to not trust their words. Yes and no now ...
          With regards to the conclusions ... Naturally, everyone will make them for himself. Even with the help of Google and Wiki ...
          But, and I am interested in something else - now you have "your" lands. The ones that were previously occupied by the Cossacks. There are practically no Russians left in Ingushetia. So some retirees, well, and one or two from working age and missed ... And after that - did life become better? ..
          1. survivor
            survivor 17 November 2012 02: 16
            0
            many historical studies about the Ingush were based on the work of Vinogradov. and it is indeed written there that the tsarist troops began the process of resettling the Ingush on a plane in order to strengthen control over them, but we will dispute this fact. The Ingush descended to the plane several times, (at least three), which was confirmed by historians earlier than Vinogradov (to be honest, I’m too lazy to dig into the Internet, I don’t have my own books after the move, and I don’t remember the author, but if you are interested, I’ll kill I will find time and links))
            second. In no way am I comparing the colonization of Russia with the colonization of North America. (It would be stupid and unpromising.) What Russia did for the Caucasus, I also do not beg, but admit, there were both good and bad. right now, Natsiks of both colors are trying to emphasize only the bad! I am not a Natsik, thank God, and I do not pretend to be a "great judge"
            thirdly, but the fact that the Russian population was persecuted in Ingushetia is generally a shameful spot on the history of my people !!! and while living in Grozny, I have often expressed sharply negatively in this debate with fellow countrymen!
            in the fourth. I do not urge you not to believe the words of your friends, just as I myself do not claim your trust. for the truth is multifaceted and no matter what face we look at, we cannot capture all one with the gaze of the whole picture. I collected those corpses. transported them to relatives. only my family during these events lost 14 people (about 70 in the first Chechen first) relatives. I received pneumonia and a severe psychological shock. more than six months after the above events, underwent treatment. I remember how it all began because it was in Mochko-yurt. (Chermen). By the way, the statistics of the victims are pretty cheating. Most of the Ingush living in the Prigorodny district and Vladikovkaz did not have a residence permit. more Ingush were refused a residence permit on the territory of North Ossetia. there was such a fact !!! and one more thing. Wikipedia talks about the participation of volunteers from South Ossetia in the conflict on the side of North Ossetia, but not a word is said about WHAT IT WERE FOR VOLUNTEERS? from Georgia, under pressure from the Georgians a few weeks before the conflict, a unit of South Ossetian troops came out. came out not only with small arms, but also with lightly armored vehicles. again, I don’t remember exactly, but the commander of this unit was seemingly Ruslan Tazov. (I don’t guarantee authenticity for the name). so that. the armament of the Ingush self-defense units was an order of magnitude lower than that of the Ossetian side! again, each detachment had the goal of guarding its settlement and there was no general command. there was no coordination of actions. from all of the above, I can only make one conclusion: the action to physically oust the Ingush population was a well-thought-out operation. with the involvement of extraneous military units. in order to cover up the true objectives of the operation, a series of provocations were committed, which prompted the Ingush to armed actions, having received such arguments in their favor, the Ossetian side committed an act of intimidation! Just at about this time, there were rumors among the Ingush population that North Ossetia wanted to reunite with South. this was even written in the newspapers.
            I personally, taking part in this conflict, didn’t have a serious weapon, but I saw very well how both the Ingush and Ossetian militias were armed. if from the Ingush side there was everything starting from pistols and rifles, ending with rare specks of Kalashnikovs and SKS, the Ossetian side was mainly armed with Kalashnikovs. Cleansing villages were carried out on UAZs and armored personnel carriers. I saw it myself too! the army began to delimit the warring parties only when the Ingush militia almost came into Vladikavkaz. at that moment, we young people were sent to collect corpses. since there was still no weapon, but just hanging around, it made no sense. it was we who took refugees, fed, provided first aid and gave it to our relatives.
            1. Chicot 1
              Chicot 1 17 November 2012 18: 40
              +2
              So I was just curious about the solid traces of this (or these) Ingush stay on the flat part. In particular, in the form of settlements or other objects (fortresses, engineering and farm buildings). However, alas, I did not receive a clear answer ... And without them, the version of a voluntary early descent to the plain does not stand up to criticism ...
              But it’s still worth comparing the colonization of the Caucasus by Russia and the colonization of the Wild West by the United States. A very revealing example. If Petersburg acted like Washington, then you would sit now, dear survivorsomewhere in the reservation. For fun, tourists from the middle lane ...
              About a shameful spot, leave an exalted young lady for the ears. They love it ... What is done is done. Now live on your own, since you thought it would be better. Just do not call the Russians back, as Kadyrov does. And then somehow it looks quite solid. Not so masculine ... So don’t prove anything to your fellow tribesmen. And then you risk being known as a sympathetic Russian person ...
              Naturally, I will trust the words of those people whom I trust ... And with regards to the Kudar (South Ossetian) volunteers, your phrase about the fact that "the Georgians kicked someone out there" at least smacks of disinformation. The Georgians did not expel anyone from South Ossetia. They were kicked out of there ... As for the volunteers on both sides in general, weren't the comrades from Chechnya fighting on the Ingush side? ..
      2. hrych
        hrych 17 November 2012 01: 08
        +3
        Basil, all information is valuable for understanding the events that have occurred, from all sides, and especially from the participant in the events. That Russia is the guarantor of the world, I do not argue with you. The Russian army left Transcaucasia - a war for everyone, with Wed Asia, Uzbeks clashed with the Kyrgyz, and the Tajiks with each other. Even Maldavashi got too busy. Leave Russia from the North Caucasus, not that the Ingush will clash with the Ossetians and the Chechens (there would be a reason: both the border and the unevenness of the wells), and the Dagestan peoples, starting with the Laks, will begin the massacre, that's such a mentality. And then there are the kindest Turks and Anglo-Saxons, and Iran is always glad to get married, that we are in the Vostok and observe.
        1. survivor
          survivor 17 November 2012 02: 32
          -1
          just so. I remember becoming an involuntary subject of a telephone conversation with Aushev with a representative of the Russian army. Ruslan shouted into the phone, asked to pull up the troops as soon as possible. threatened to complain about the actions of the military Yeltsin. in general, the withdrawal of troops was a huge mistake. it was then that the troops in their places could become the guarantor of the establishment of peace, but apparently this task was not posed. there was a task to embroil all altogether and the troops withdrew, giving the Nazis the opportunity to push peoples together with their foreheads!
          1. Chicot 1
            Chicot 1 17 November 2012 18: 48
            +2
            But Aushev Ruslan would be better at all to keep quiet in a rag and open his mouth to no one. For one simple reason - he is also responsible for unleashing this conflict ...
            But alright, Aushev was never distinguished by his state mind and diplomacy. He did not have ordinary worldly wisdom. Well, what can you do, this was not given to him ... But why did your elders allow all this? Or didn’t they listen to their word? .. Or did they bless all this on the contrary? .. And I do not mean only the Ingush side. I'm talking about both sides ...
  20. gorkoxnumx
    gorkoxnumx 16 November 2012 20: 44
    +4
    I talked a lot with people who fought there and every time I am convinced that with these geeks from Chechnya and the North Caucasian republics, I emphasize that from the North Caucasian republics you cannot have any business, and it’s not only the war but also how they "animals" behave in our country. homeland. All peoples as peoples, all people are like people, but it is not correct to call these animals people by definition, let them first be rehabilitated !!!
  21. survivor
    survivor 16 November 2012 20: 50
    -3
    but how did the Russians behave in the Caucasus, they didn’t tell you, at least those who fought? Call geeks? Well, well .... I’ve heard something like that somewhere. in Russia there are few bandits and a thief from Russian? ONLY THE CAUCASIANS ARE HOMELESS? you know, before writing like that, turn on the brain. carry not know what !!!
    1. Bykov.
      Bykov. 17 November 2012 08: 07
      0
      He may have expressed himself in truth too sharply, but in essence (GRAPHICS !!!) doesn’t that bother you?
  22. survivor
    survivor 16 November 2012 21: 59
    +2
    which just amazes me. There are many smart, thinking, decent people on this site. in the discussion of this topic, many of them are present, I am only trying to convey my thoughts about what to do with the current situation. trying to find a path to the future through comprehending the past. but .... in response I get only emotions and not any constructivism. I try to look at the problem from the outside, without sliding into banal hysteria, but in return I reap the fruits of this very hysteria. guys, well, I beg you, just try to look at this problem from all sides and maybe you will see something that you simply have not seen before? Chechens, Ingush, Russians, Tatars, Chuvash, how many of us, so many customs and rules. Each nationality has its own history. in many respects it is inseparable from the history of Russia, but in many respects it is individual. screams like, "geeks who can only rob nothing" will not generate peace and respect. only detailed, meticulous work on mistakes, sometimes not disagreeable, but so necessary, will help us avoid these mistakes in the future, live and work together for the good of the Russian state and ourselves. It is easier to tear apart than to sew, let us not be the undertakers of the country that we inherited from our ancestors. We are thinking people, and no matter what nationality we belong to, no matter what religion we adhere to, we build, create, and not destroy and sell! Let us think better about the prosperity of our common Motherland, regardless of the wishes of those who wish to destroy it.
    with greetings to all those present on this resource.
    survivor.
    1. hrych
      hrych 16 November 2012 22: 23
      +2
      Your words, they give you a statesman and I am forced to only agree with you and put a plus.
    2. tupolev-95
      tupolev-95 16 November 2012 23: 12
      +3
      We can argue endlessly about the past, but if you wrote what is in your heart and at least 50% of the Vainakhs agree with you, we have a future.
      1. survivor
        survivor 16 November 2012 23: 38
        +1
        I’m quite enough that my father and mother thought so, otherwise they would not have invested this in me))). Of course, how many people have such opinions. my opinion is subjective. but I think that there is always a future. through education, employment, the establishment of everyday life, normal trade and other relations. not everything will work out right away, but we must strive for it! and then the word Russian will not sound like an insult.
        I worked in UPP VOS. a blind guy worked with me. his name was Andrey. like some event we were sent to buy a cake with him. in the store he and I were pushed aside by the crowd. he asked to be admitted in Chechen, he knew him perfectly and then one young man asks. "ho nokhchy wu?" (are you a Chechen?) Andrey answers him "a. so oersi wu" (no, I'm Russian). the crowd froze and let us in to the counter. they were amazed by the fact that a Russian person knows the Chechen language and does not try to hide the fact that he is Russian !!! Please answer me Tupolev, did you know the Chechen language while living in Chechnya? it is with the knowledge of the language that respect for its native comes !!!
        1. tupolev-95
          tupolev-95 17 November 2012 09: 07
          +1
          Well, "nohchuy wu" I, of course, know, I can not boast of great knowledge. As a child, I had many friends and Chechens and Ingush, mostly children of our neighbors, but we communicated in Russian.
          1. survivor
            survivor 17 November 2012 16: 32
            0
            you see, there were friends among the Chechens and Ingush. they probably knew Russian (otherwise, how would you communicate), but what prevented you from learning Chechen? I don’t believe that I’m just lazy. Tell you what? Yes, just the postulate that Chechens are "small animals" at the everyday level has always existed in Russian families of Grozny residents. at the same time, they smiled in the eyes ... I know because I myself met a Russian girl then and with all my, without exaggeration, holy attitude towards her, her father was always against it and more than once, in a drunken state, he called me a beast, a beast and other "flattering" words. and this despite the fact that I helped them during the first war to save their property, the car. despite the fact that meeting with this girl every day I was beaten, but did not stop caring for her, despite the fact that she was during the war I moved to him from 56 to Oktyabrsky, despite the fact that when at 12 the remnants of the Dudayevites were blocked and until 56 I had to go actually across the front line, I went every two days with food to them! noteworthy is the fact that she insisted on moving to Rostov. I moved with her. Instead of studying, I mantulized at construction sites to learn it. Even at the entrance to Rostov, she asked me not to tell anyone that we live together. introduced himself as her brother and achieved a settlement in one room in a hostel. a year before her diploma, she told me that she did not want anything in common, she achieved my dismissal from the hostel and finally announced, "all the same, you, animal, need to go to your place , graze the sheep "! Then I happily jumped out to marry my fellow Grozny! and after that, I helped her mother for several more years to equip the house !!! Here's a picture with oil .........
            1. tupolev-95
              tupolev-95 18 November 2012 20: 13
              0
              The story that you told is simply unprecedented, although that only in the world does not happen. Unfortunately, I know too many completely different stories and I don’t want to retell them, otherwise it will turn out that I add fuel to the fire. Both sides suffered losses and very soon the pain will be dulled and with every new conflict on this basis everything is remembered. It will be very difficult to get out of this.
  23. survivor
    survivor 16 November 2012 22: 43
    +1
    only prosperous Russia will become a common home for the people who inhabit it. and it will become prosperous not when we spend all our energy on petty quarrels and dividing, but when we, putting aside the forks and axes, make it that way. I call for tolerance and respect, at least on this site for these people! with trifles, more begins. realizing where our ancestors were right and where not very, what goals were pursued and by what methods these goals were achieved, we are simply doomed to success))). we are together))), this fact is undeniable, no matter who says anything and how nor argued. we build a common house together))). and the name of this house is Russia! just remember the fact that it is the uneducated people who always support all kinds of outbursts of Nazism. I do not talk about nationalism, love and respect for one’s nationality, pride in the fact that you have the happiness of being a person belonging to that nationality. I'm talking about Nazism-the artificial exaltation of one nationality over others!
    1. bairat
      bairat 16 November 2012 23: 08
      0
      And yet, agree with me that the Chechens who have fought for freedom for centuries deserve their independence. Instead, they are once again being knocked down, their homes destroyed, and after that they say: now live in peace. The Chechens will never forget and forgive anyone, they will pass on this pain from generation to generation. I can not believe that after all that was, many of them will like you to call for tolerance.
      1. hrych
        hrych 16 November 2012 23: 39
        +2
        The fact that the Chechens were preserved as an ethnos is not a merit of the Chechens, but rather, on the contrary, the Persians or Ottomans would have slaughtered their men for such dirty tricks, and sent the women into slavery. Russia with all the ceremonies and okromya conquest is trying to develop people. There can be no talk of independence, in particular, our leader in the elimination of siparatism actually became the leader. For several years, Ichkeria was independent and what, did they build Singapore? There wasn’t a bunch of enclaves on teips where there were laws, abductions, lawlessness and feuds, and the Turkish army was waiting for the command to enter and capture along the corridor through Georgia. And it ended with the Basayev campaign in Dagestan. Here is a recent dispute over the border with Ingushetia, Kadyrov grumbled, they said from the Kremlin tsyts and fell silent, and without the Kremlin blood would have flowed like a river.
        1. survivor
          survivor 16 November 2012 23: 49
          +3
          I have a very negative attitude towards even the hint of the thought of disconnecting any region from Russia! I welcome joining, I believe in him !!! but do not flatter yourself with any authorities, no matter who they are, they all caused one and many wounds to the Vainakhs as an ethnic group.
          but about the fact that they didn’t build anything, I dare to object to you. Russia also appeared one day. revolutionaries begin the revolution, and the state is built by rulers. still not a single revolutionist was a decent statesman. in vain Stalin got rid of them so quickly!
          1. hrych
            hrych 17 November 2012 00: 05
            +3
            There are no offenses, the Vainakhs have one feature - teip way, which is a big plus for the survival of the ethnos, including in the diaspora, but to build a state is not just harmful, but just makes it impossible. I’m afraid that Kadyrov, that Yevkurov could not hold out without the Russian army and day.
        2. bairat
          bairat 17 November 2012 08: 48
          0
          Quote: hrych
          for such dirty tricks

          What are such dirty tricks? The Republic of Ingushetia forcibly included them in its composition, carried out punitive operations (even before the war, military operations were conducted to pacify), the population reciprocated. It is strange to expect that in one day they will become faithful citizens.
          1. hrych
            hrych 17 November 2012 09: 32
            +2
            Mniye recall the Caucasian war, but the beginning of permanent Russian-Chechen relations dates back to 1567, when the first Russian fortress appeared at the confluence of Sunzha in the Terek. These ties reached the highest state level in 1588, when the first Chechen embassy headed by Batail-Murza Okotsky arrived in Moscow. Formally, the visit ended with documenting vassalage relations between one of the feudal lords of Chechnya and the Moscow sovereign. Those. at one time, fearing the massacre of the Ottomans and Persians, the Chechens rushed under the protection of the Moscow sovereign. Well, then the work of the Ottoman, Persian, Salafi, and a little later British and German agents began, which led to the Caucasian war and forced Russia to act harshly, in many ways, that by that time Chechnya would be in the rear of the empire and Russian Transcaucasia would be inevitably massacred , and the Caucasian ridge (impregnable fortress) would be in the hands of the enemies of Russia (which actually happened when the Georgians and the forces behind them were defeated in 08). The trouble for the Chechens is that they live in a strategic place and will not leave them alone. And dirty tricks are a national tradition in the form of robbery, cattle theft and hostage-taking for ransom, and not primarily from the Cossacks, but from their own Chechens from a neighboring village. That on the part of the Persians and the Ottoman, if they owned these lands, it would have caused a quite adequate reaction in the form of lively stripped skin, and women in harems to the Janissaries.
  24. bairat
    bairat 16 November 2012 23: 21
    +3
    "Gentlemen" minusalschiki, do not be like rats, your minus is not supported by substantiated comments I perceive as confirmation of my own innocence. "I have nothing to say, I'll put a minus out of anger" - something like this.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 16 November 2012 23: 26
      +1
      Quote: bairat
      "Gentlemen" minusalschiki, do not be like rats, your minus is not supported by substantiated comments I perceive as confirmation of my own innocence. "I have nothing to say, I'll put a minus out of anger" - something like this.
      Yes, do not pay attention!
      Here people are different and opinions!
      There are more worthy and decent people, but they are worse organized)))
      1. survivor
        survivor 16 November 2012 23: 51
        +1
        Salaam Alaikum Alibek))). I see you are reading my, often delusional, thoughts). How is your health? As a family? are all alive healthy?
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 16 November 2012 23: 55
          -1
          Quote: survivor
          Salaam Alaikum Alibek))). I see you are reading my, often delusional, thoughts). How is your health? As a family? are all alive healthy?

          Vaaleikum salam Magomed !!
          I am correcting my health, something strongly showed me)))))))) Family Glory to the Almighty is healthy!
          And I wish you all good health !!
    2. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 17 November 2012 00: 43
      +2
      Here, with enviable regularity, people appear who got the minuses out of nowhere. At first, I was like that now I realized that you just don’t need to pay attention to them. We are not here for pluses and nothing decisive minuses
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 17 November 2012 00: 54
        +1
        Quote: Ruslan67
        Here, with enviable regularity, people appear who got the minuses out of nowhere. At first, I was like that now I realized that you just don’t need to pay attention to them. We are not here for pluses and nothing decisive minuses
        Dear Ruslan!
        We all went through this !!
        Especially when they do not write anything in response and minus it just happens to be incomprehensible !!
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 17 November 2012 00: 58
          +3
          So I am about the same! first indignant then you spit and start looking at fools philosophically
  25. survivor
    survivor 16 November 2012 23: 59
    +1
    no need to hurt))). although sometimes illness is just a way to relax and feel the attention and care of loved ones)). I, unfortunately, am deprived of this opportunity.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 17 November 2012 00: 01
      0
      Quote: survivor
      Unfortunately, I am deprived of this opportunity.

      I know, dear friend!
      But I am sure that the Almighty will not deprive you of this !!
      Take care of yourself!
  26. survivor
    survivor 17 November 2012 00: 06
    +1
    Thanks for your kind words. may the Almighty never deprive your hospitable house of your attention))). oh and zamususuyut me)))
  27. survivor
    survivor 17 November 2012 00: 22
    +3
    hrych,
    on bayonets you will not build happiness nationally. I’ll tell you one more story. main member, my first ancestor.
    How did the whole Ingush society gather to discuss such a question "there are princes and slaves everywhere. Why should we choose princes and give them power?"
    my ancestor was also invited. he was late for a long time, and then he arrived on a donkey and his dear Circassian coat was surrounded by a dirty rope. when the society asked him the reason for being late and the presence of a donkey instead of a horse, as well as his attitude to the issue under discussion. then he answered. "A dirty rope does not go to an expensive Circassian coat as well as princes to the Ingush. A donkey will never become a horse, and a free man will never become a slave." but he was late, because - "the lot of a man, work, and not discussion of unworthy men of nonsense" this answer was arranged by the questioners and the society decided - "there will be no princes and slaves from the Ingush" captives were taken into slavery, but upon arrival of a certain time, or released , or accepted into the family!
    all those sins that we now have are the "raid" of civilization.
    1. hrych
      hrych 17 November 2012 00: 41
      +3
      In addition to the vices of civilization and the benefits of a lot, but according to your customs, I’ll say that it’s time for us to learn a lot from you Russians, otherwise we have lost a lot with civilization, especially the veneration of ancestors. In general, it's nice to talk with you, I think all our disputes are completely resolvable. I have the honor to take my leave and wish you all the best.
  28. survivor
    survivor 17 November 2012 00: 48
    +1
    which I wish you). and we have a lot to learn. the Russian people simply infects nearby peoples with their vitality)))
  29. survivor
    survivor 17 November 2012 01: 07
    +1
    Okay. Thank you all for the informative conversation. who like, and I sleep. because we have 01:06. I get up at 5 in the morning. good night everybody.
  30. Bykov.
    Bykov. 17 November 2012 07: 47
    0
    How trustworthy are all these polls? They are all written to order, in warm Moscow offices, of pro-Western "human rights activists." And they are essentially an information weapon.
  31. ser86
    ser86 8 December 2012 17: 11
    0
    if in Chechnya it was possible to plant a leaderly subculture unusual for it
    Well, yes, it was necessary to bow before the Salafi Arabs