Losses of the fleets of Ukraine and Russia during the NWO. Statistics and facts

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Losses of the fleets of Ukraine and Russia during the NWO. Statistics and facts

During a special military operation, the Ukrainian Navy, for various reasons, lost almost all the most modern warships, as well as the flagship. The lion's share of losses in this case falls on the Sea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbAzov.

Since there is no comprehensive information in open sources about the circumstances of the death of ships or the desertion of crews, we are forced to confine ourselves to compiling a dry list of combat and auxiliary ships and vessels lost by Ukraine that were part of the Ukrainian Naval Forces (VMSU) and the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine (SFSU).



Combat losses of the Ukrainian fleet


1. Patrol boat P 190 "Slov'yansk" (former WPB-1321 Cushing), performing a combat mission in the area of ​​the Kinburn Spit, was sunk on March 3, 2022 by a missile fired by a Russian aircraft.

2. The minesweeper U360 "Genіchesk" (project 1258 "Korund") was sunk in July 2022 by a missile fired by a Russian aircraft.

3. The armored assault boat L450 "Stanislav" (Ukrainian project 58503 "Kentavr-LK") was sunk on May 7, 2022 in the vicinity of Zmeiny Island by a missile fired by a Russian aircraft.

Non-combat losses of the Ukrainian fleet


1. At the head of the column is the flagship of the Ukrainian Navy, the F130 frigate Hetman Sahaydachny (project 11351 Nerey). Located in Nikolaev, on February 28, 2022, the ship was flooded by the crew at the direction of the panicked Kyiv authorities.

2. The R 174 Akkerman river armored boat (project 58150 Gyurza) was abandoned unharmed by the crew in Berdyansk, introduced into the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation.


BK-02 "Akerkman" (former P 174 "Ackerman") under the flag of St. Andrew.

3. The river armored boat R 179 "Vishgorod" (project 58150 "Gyurza") was abandoned unharmed by the crew in Berdyansk, introduced into the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation.

4. River armored boat R 177 "Kremenchuk" (project 58150 "Gyurza") was abandoned unharmed by the crew in the port of Mariupol, introduced into the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation.

5. The river armored boat R 178 "Lubni" (project 58150 "Gyurza") was flooded by the crew in the port of Mariupol, on May 15, 2022 it was raised by the Black Sea Fleet specialists.


6. On April 32, 205, the border guard ship BG 19 "Donbass" (project 2022P "Tarantula") was sunk by the crew. Raised by Black Sea Fleet specialists, delivered to Novorossiysk in May 2022.


7. Border guard ship BG 108 "Vulture" (project 1400M) sank. Raised by specialists of the Black Sea Fleet.

8. Border patrol ship BG 118 "Arabat" (project 1400M) abandoned by the crew.

9. Border Patrol Ship BG 1?? (project 1400M) abandoned by the crew.

10. Sea tug A830 "Korets" (former MB-30) abandoned by the crew.

11. The control ship A500 "Donbass" (Soviet project 304) on April 6, 2022 was flooded by the crew in the port of Mariupol. In May 2022, it was examined by Black Sea Fleet specialists for lifting, the holes they discovered were sealed.


12. Small border boat BG 721 (project UMS 600) abandoned by the crew.

13. Small border boats of the UMS-1000 Patrol project:

bg??? abandoned by the crew
BG 14 abandoned by the crew,
BG 4 abandoned by the crew,
BG 23 abandoned by the crew,
BG 309 abandoned by crew.


14. Project 50030 Kalkan patrol boats:

BG 308 abandoned by the crew,
BG 310 abandoned by crew.



BG 311 abandoned by crew.

15. Patrol boat (tail number not visible) abandoned by crew in March 2022.

The column is closed by the decommissioned training vessel A206 "Vinnitsya" (former small anti-submarine ship of project 1124 P "Dnepr"), for some reason flooded by the crew in June 2022 in Ochakovo.


It will be interesting to compare Ukrainian losses with Russian ones, as well as compare the real losses of the Black Sea Fleet with the summary of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, according to which the Black Sea Fleet lost eighteen ships and boats as of February 5, 2023.

Comprehensive information about the losses of combat and auxiliary ships of the Black Sea fleet are not yet available in open sources, therefore, when calculating, we will rely on official communications from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, official statements by the Ukrainian side, as well as photo and video materials from both sides (clarifications and additions from readers are welcome).

Let's start with the rescue tug vessel Spasatel Vasily Bekh, since the fate of this rather large vessel is still not known to the general public. According to reports primarily from the Ukrainian media, on June 17, 2022, the tug was allegedly sunk by two Harpoon anti-ship missiles. As evidence, a low-quality video fragment was attached, taken at an angle from the monitor.

Against the background of the lack of comments from the Russian side on this issue on Twitter, a message appeared on the official page of the Ukrainian Navy with the following content:

“Navy of the Armed Forces of Ukraine hit another “no analogues” - a tugboat with the Tor air defense system on board.” In the waters of the Black Sea, the tug of the Black Sea Fleet "Vasily Bekh" was hit while transporting ammunition, weapons and personnel of the Black Sea Fleet to Snake Island.

Obviously, the Ukrainian Navy had reason to refrain from a categorical statement about the “destruction” of the “Rescuer Vasily Bekh”, so they simply stated the fact that two missiles hit the latter. Thus, the question remains open.

Combat losses of the Black Sea Fleet


1. According to statements in the Ukrainian media and social networks, in early May 2022, Ukrainian Bayraktar TB2 UAVs allegedly “destroyed” five Project 03160 Raptor patrol boats. Including on May 2 - two boats, on May 7 - two boats (P-275, P-281), on May 8 - 1 boat (P-342 "Youth Army member of the Baltic").

At the same time, on May 8, 2022, the Ukrainian website "Military" spoke about this as follows:

“The number of project 03160 Raptor high-speed patrol boats, which the Russian Black Sea Fleet lost in May, can reach five units. This conclusion can be reached by analyzing the videos distributed by the military (General Zaluzhny on Facebook - ed.) on May 2 and 8.

Accompanying this restrained statement with five screenshots of relevant content with brief comments, the site continues:

“Thus, it can be assumed that all five episodes are different hits on different boats. At the same time, it is not known for certain how serious the damage was inflicted on each of the damaged boats, whether they sank and what is the fate of their crews.

Later it turns out that it was not in vain that “Military” chose words when commenting on the situation with five “Raptors”. To date, it is known that at least two of them were not “destroyed”, but damaged.

The picture shows the boat P-275. Despite the extended, about a third of the length of the hull underwater hole, the boat remained afloat.


Next in the picture is the boat P-342 "Youth Army member of the Baltic", delivered to Sevastopol for repairs. To his left is the bow of a boat of the same type, presumably also damaged and delivered there for the same purpose.


2. In early May, the Ukrainian side presented a video showing how the D-310 high-speed transport and landing boat (project 02510 BK-16) was attacked from the air on May 2, 2022.


Contrary to the assertion of the Ukrainian side, the boat was not "destroyed", although it received serious damage as a result of the fire. It is possible that it was written off.


3. On May 7, the landing craft D-107 "Serna" (project 11770 "Serna") was attacked by the Bayraktar UAV near Zmeiny Island. Soon, the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense, in gloating terms, announced on Twitter that the boat had been "destroyed."


However, two weeks later the boat was lifted by a floating crane and delivered to Sevastopol on a self-propelled platform for repairs.

Non-combat losses of the Black Sea Fleet


1. On March 24, 2022, the Saratov large landing ship (project 1171), which was in the port of Berdyansk, was flooded by the crew due to a fire in order to prevent the detonation of the ammunition on board. On July 2, 2022, the ship was raised and sent to Kerch for repairs.

2. On April 13, 2022, a fire broke out on the Moskva missile cruiser, as a result of which ammunition detonated, presumably, batteries of AK-630 artillery mounts on the left side. The ship was taken in tow, but in the conditions of rough seas, the cruiser, which had a roll of about 15 degrees, lost stability and capsized to the port side.

There is no reason to take the reports of the Ukrainian and Western media about the alleged sinking of the cruiser by anti-ship missiles seriously for the following reasons.

Firstly, it is striking that neither the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Zaluzhny, nor the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, nor the Ukrainian Navy announced that the Moskva cruiser was killed as a result of hits by 1-3 Neptune missiles, which Ukrainian and world media categorically insisted on .

At the same time, the above-mentioned sources promptly alerted their readers on Twitter and Facebook about attacks by Ukrainian drones Russian boats, and about the "sinking" of the large landing ship "Orsk", for example.

Secondly, two well-known photographs of the Moscow in distress show no traces of anti-ship missile hits.

Afterword


The Ukrainian fleet, the core of which lost five of the nine armored boats of projects 58150 "Gyurza" and 58181 "Centaur", suffered huge losses by its standards and actually ceased to exist as an organized fighting force.

The widely advertised "wolf pack", on which so many hopes were pinned, did not cause any damage to the enemy, while three of the seven members of the "pack" were included in the Black Sea Fleet.

Of the eighteen ships and boats, according to the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, allegedly lost by the Black Sea Fleet, the real irretrievable losses were the cruiser Moskva and theoretically two, maximum three patrol boats of project 03160 Raptor. Another boat (landing transport D-310) may have been decommissioned.

The fate of the tug "Rescuer Vasily Bekh" before the appearance of the corresponding official message from the Russian side or video footage from the Ukrainian side, depicting the sinking of the ship under water, remains unknown to us.
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  1. 0
    10 February 2023 04: 34
    The only serious loss of the Black Sea Fleet is, of course, the flagship Moskva.
    All the same, the very low role of the Black Sea Fleet in the NWO is depressing ... it launches Caliber and stands at the berths and fights off UAV drones ... this is not what it is intended for. what
    Let's hope that the sailors of the Black Sea Fleet will still show the combat power of the Black Sea Fleet in all its glory.
    The loss of the fleet of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is one trash unsuitable for conducting serious hostilities ... it is not serious to consider now that Ukraine has some kind of combat-ready fleet.
    1. -4
      10 February 2023 05: 28
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      The loss of the fleet of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is one rubbish unsuitable for conducting serious hostilities

      Perhaps this is true, however, let's not forget that in Ukraine people live in an alternative reality.
      Five years ago, Lieutenant Mokryak (commander of the Berdyansk armored boat) told a Ukrainian journalist the following:
      “When the “wolf pack” attacks, the Russian ship will not be able to simultaneously hold six, five or even four targets at the front sight. And this means that at least one of these armored "wolves" will get the enemy. So now we'll see who wins."

      Therefore, it was amusing to watch how the crews of the "armored wolf cubs", faced with physical reality, quickly lost their illusions and began to massively desert the ships entrusted to them, without even trying to render them unusable.
    2. +25
      10 February 2023 06: 42
      The only serious loss of the Black Sea Fleet is, of course, the flagship "Moscow"
      Which, unfortunately, outweighs all their lost under-fleet with its death.
      Let's hope that the sailors of the Black Sea Fleet will still show the combat power of the Black Sea Fleet in all its glory.
      In a battle with whom do you want the sailors of the Black Sea Fleet to demonstrate their combat power to you? With the NATO fleet?
      All the same, the very low role of the Black Sea Fleet in the NWO is depressing ... it launches Caliber
      Don't forget about the marines.
      1. +5
        10 February 2023 07: 30
        Well, let's mark all the losses of the Black Sea Fleet as non-combat and insignificant, then the question arises:
        And what does the Black Sea Fleet do besides the launches of Caliber, which can be delivered from the Caspian quite well? Landing operations? Blockade of enemy ports?
        1. -2
          10 February 2023 08: 31
          Quote: Civil
          Landing operations?

          Where the hell?
          Quote: Civil
          Blockade of enemy ports?

          Who to block and again why?
          For the fleet. except for the launches of Caliber - there are simply no tasks. Who should our fleet block? Looming simply in front of ports within the reach of missiles, and not necessarily anti-ship missiles - for what? Schaub Bulo?
        2. -5
          10 February 2023 10: 38
          Quote: Civil
          Landing operations?

          Is the army ready for landing operations? Or do you think that a combined team from ships can easily capture Odessa?
          Quote: Civil
          Blockade of enemy ports?

          Was there a blockade order?
          Quote: Civil
          Caliber launches, which can be delivered from the Caspian well?

          I'll tell you more, you can even start up from the Moscow reservoir! wink laughing
        3. +2
          12 February 2023 19: 30
          What tasks are you ready to set for the fleet?
          He fires calibers, carries ammunition and equipment. It patrols the water area and is part of the air defense system. Creates a threat of landing, thereby tying up enemy forces.
          What else can a fleet do? I probably didn't list everything.
      2. +1
        10 February 2023 11: 21
        In a battle with whom do you want the sailors of the Black Sea Fleet to demonstrate their combat power to you?

        Yes, at least with the Armed Forces of Ukraine ... in the Black Sea, the only serious enemy of the Black Sea Fleet is the Turkish fleet ... at the moment it is not an enemy.
      3. -1
        10 February 2023 12: 29
        Quote: not the one
        Which, unfortunately, outweighs all their lost under-fleet with its death.

        If this isn't crew sabotage, then it's an accident that probably would have happened anyway. These are more questions of an organizational order, otherwise we have fires in the fleet, in the order of things! feel Therefore, the loss is not combat, just the time and place is extremely unfortunate!
        Quote: not the one
        battle with whom do you want the sailors of the Black Sea Fleet to demonstrate their combat power to you? With the NATO fleet?

        In general, I would like the ports of Ukroreich to be blocked, as at the beginning of the NWO. You give a naval blockade! am
        Quote: not the one
        Don't Forget the Marine Corps

        Extremely true remark! good for today, real heroes bringing glory to the Russian fleet! soldier
    3. -3
      10 February 2023 10: 33
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Still, the very low role of the Black Sea Fleet in the NWO is depressing.

      And what needs to be done to improve this role?
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      that's not what it's for

      And what is it intended for?
      1. +1
        10 February 2023 11: 23
        And what needs to be done to improve this role?

        And what is it intended for?

        I would first like to hear the answers to these questions from you ... since you asked them. hi
        1. -3
          10 February 2023 11: 48
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          I would like to hear the answers to these questions from you first.

          laughing Interesting ... I didn’t know that there is an Android city in Israel!
          Those. Should I answer your unfounded accusations? However!
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. +1
            11 February 2023 04: 10
            Interesting ... I didn’t know that there is an Android city in Israel!
            Those. Should I answer your unfounded accusations? However!

            In order...
            I live in Siberia ... in the city of Novosibirsk ... smile this is not a city of Android, dear ... take a map of Russia and check.
            I personally did not accuse you of anything ... it was you who sucked your mythical and unfounded accusations out of your finger and are trying to hang them on me. smile hi
            I just wanted to know your opinion, our questions are your own... and you rushed to accuse me of heresy, attributing to me God knows what... ah ah ah.
            1. +1
              13 February 2023 08: 08
              Quote: Lech from Android.
              I just wanted to know your opinion our your own questions

              Those. You flatly refused to answer my questions?!
              And after that, on my hint of a Jewish style of dialogue, you dragged a bucket of poop and began to throw yourself at me .... laughing how cute! Nothing in the Russian opposition has changed for centuries! lol
              Well ... for stability! drinks laughing
  2. -5
    10 February 2023 05: 47
    Quote: Comrade
    the crews of the "armored wolf cubs", faced with physical reality, quickly lost their illusions and began to desert en masse from the ships entrusted to them,

    Yes it is... what
    In 2008 the Georgian Navy smile attacked our sailors in the same way with well-known consequences ... history repeated itself again.
    1. -4
      10 February 2023 06: 34
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      In 2008, the Georgian Navy also attacked our sailors

      The Ukrainian sailors, unlike the Georgian ones, did not even try to attack the Russian ships, they simply fled to their homes.
  3. +17
    10 February 2023 06: 10
    I would not classify the losses of "Saratov" and "Moscow" as "non-combat", they died at the time of the combat exit and there is great confidence that from sabotage. It was not for nothing that after that, attacks were carried out on the places of deployment and training of Ukrainian naval saboteurs...
    1. -14
      10 February 2023 06: 29
      Quote: svp67
      I would not classify the losses of "Saratov" and "Moscow" as "non-combat", they died at the time of the combat exit

      Dear colleague, "Saratov" was not on a campaign, kingstones were opened on it when it was standing at the pier. The upper deck remained on the surface and was perfectly visible from space.

      Quote: svp67
      there is great confidence that from sabotage

      Well, it is your right, of course, to be sure of something.
      1. +17
        10 February 2023 06: 39
        Quote: Comrade
        "Saratov" was not on the campaign,

        And where was he? He came to the recently liberated Berdyansk with the aim of delivering material supplies to our troops, he was performing a combat mission and I'm afraid that not only the Kingstons caused him to flood there, I think that the integrity of the sides was badly damaged by fire and explosions ...
        1. +1
          11 February 2023 02: 54
          Quote: svp67
          He came to the recently liberated Berdyansk with the aim of delivering material supplies to our troops, he was performing a combat mission and I'm afraid that not only "Kingstons" caused him to flood there, I think that the integrity of the sides was badly damaged by fire and explosions ...

          Sergey, let me give you an abstract example.
          Surely you have heard about the defense of Port Arthur and that on the eve of the surrender, the crews sank warships there.

          Prior to that, they were tormented by Japanese siege artillery for a long time, they had multiple damage. Nevertheless, the Japanese did not record the death of these ships, albeit badly damaged by the Japanese, at their own expense. And we called them "samotops" because they sank themselves.

          That is why neither the sinking of the control ship A500 "Donbas" (note how badly burned it was),

          nor the sinking of the large landing ship "Saratov" can be attributed to combat losses.
          Because they were sunk by themselves, and not by the enemy. Both burned heavily, both were flooded by their crews. The only difference is that the Russians first sank their ship and then raised it. Ukrainians do not have such a prospect.
          1. +5
            11 February 2023 14: 58
            Consequently, the loss by Ukraine of its armored boats also cannot be attributed to combat, because they were abandoned by their own crew and not by the enemy.
      2. +20
        10 February 2023 06: 46
        "Saratov" was not on a campaign, kingstones were opened on it when it was standing at the pier
        He died at the pier, or at sea - what fundamentally changes this fact? Is this not a combat loss for you?
        1. +9
          10 February 2023 08: 46
          Quote: not the one
          He died at the pier, or at sea - what fundamentally changes this fact?

          Then, well, according to his logic, it turns out that the "Varangian" died in the port ... (((
        2. -2
          11 February 2023 02: 58
          Quote: not the one
          He died at the pier, or at sea - what fundamentally changes this fact? Is this not a combat loss for you?

          If the enemy sank - combat the loss.
          If sunk themselves - non-combat loss.
          1. +1
            11 February 2023 23: 26
            Quote: Comrade

            If the enemy sank - combat the loss.
            If sunk themselves - non-combat loss.
            song "Death of the Varyag" ...
            Cold waves are splashing
            They crash on the seashore.
            Seagulls float over the sea
            Their cries are full of longing.
            White seagulls rush about
            Something alarmed them.
            Chu! Thundered peals
            Explosions distant, deaf.
            There, among the noisy sea
            St. Andrew's flag is flying
            Beats with unequal power
            Proud handsome "Varyag"
            High mast knocked down
            Armor pierced on him
            Team fights steadily
            With the sea, the enemy and fire.
            The stormy sea foams
            The waves crash angrily.
            From enemy giant ships
            Shots more often thunder.
            Less often from the "Varyag" rushes
            A formidable answer to the enemy.
            Seagulls, take down the Fatherland
            Hello Russian Heroes!
            Give the world everything,
            Seagulls, sad news:
            In battle, the enemy did not give up,
            They fell for Russian honor.
            We didn’t let go before the enemy
            Glorious St. Andrew's banner:
            Themselves blew up the "Korean"
            We SUNK "Varyag"
            .
            Seen white gulls
            The hero hid in the waves ...
            The roar of guns fell silent,
            The distant expanse was silent.
            Cold waves splash
            They crash on the seashore...
            Seagulls rush to Russia
            Their cries are full of longing.
            sad
      3. +20
        10 February 2023 07: 54
        Moreover, in addition to "Saratov", TWO more BDK pr. 775 were damaged, and the commander of one of the "Poles" died and there were still dead and wounded, I remember very well the video of the BDK's abrupt retreat from the pier.
        And to say that these are not combat losses - are you not ashamed?
  4. +1
    10 February 2023 06: 12
    Quote: svp67
    there is great confidence that from sabotage.

    After the SVO, we will find out if, of course, all the details of what happened are declassified.
  5. 0
    10 February 2023 06: 26
    It is strange that the combat losses of the Ukrainian fleet are small, only 3 units. Were there no attacks on the places where their ships (boats) were deployed, or was it considered that they did not pose a serious danger?
  6. +9
    10 February 2023 06: 34
    maybe I missed something, but hasn't there been an official message from the RF Ministry of Defense until now, from which a fire broke out and why holes formed on the cruiser Moscow. If there was an official message from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, then there is nothing to refer even to hints from the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine. And if there has not been an official announcement from the RF Ministry of Defense until now, then it really is a paradox. There are so many witnesses from the rescued part of the cruiser's crew, it lies at the bottom of the territorial waters of Russia and still have not figured out whether there were impacts on the ship from outside, so that it would receive holes. The fact that the cruiser sank during towing is clear to everyone. But what chain of events led to the fact that the cruiser had to be towed?
    I repeat, maybe I missed the official and final message of the RF Ministry of Defense on this tragedy ...
  7. +29
    10 February 2023 06: 52
    Secondly, two well-known photographs of the Moscow in distress show no traces of anti-ship missile hits.

    The author's desire to reduce the degree of problems of the modern Russian fleet, which was acutely manifested in the database process, is understandable. But the reckoning of the losses of the RKR "Moskva" and the large landing craft "Saratov" to non-combat ones, cause only a bitter smile.
    First, ships just don't burn. There must be a reason for the fire. Both ships were in the combat zone and carried out combat missions: the Moskva missile launcher at sea, the Saratov large landing craft at the wall. Consequently, the corrals had to be in the appropriate high levels of combat readiness. The BDK "Saratov" was in the process of unloading ammunition and the crew should, in theory, be in the places of "combat alert". By itself, the ammunition does not explode: if it is in a state of storage, then it is in a regular capping and has certain degrees of protection from the initiation of an explosive warhead or propellant charge.
    Secondly, the scarce photo and video materials available on these ships most of all suggest that the volumetric fires arose as a result of combat impact on them by a certain type of weapon. By the way, in the photos of the Moskva missile cruiser mentioned by the author, the places where the ship was hit are quite clearly visible.
    I am not writing this to condemn or disgrace anyone. Yes, unfortunately, the level of combat training, especially in terms of damage control of the ship (in the case of the Moskva), causes sincere regret. After such cases, it is necessary to systematically study all the circumstances, analyze everything and draw fundamental conclusions, and not tell fairy tales.
    1. +11
      10 February 2023 06: 57
      Thank you for a professional and balanced comment from a knowledgeable and knowledgeable person!
      1. -11
        10 February 2023 10: 47
        Quote: not the one
        Thank you for your professional and thoughtful comment.

        laughing good Well, wow .... the suspicion that you and the "understood" are the same person .... put plus signs for yourself?
    2. -13
      10 February 2023 10: 45
      Quote: yuriy1863
      By the way, in the photos of the Moskva missile cruiser mentioned by the author, the places where the ship was hit are quite clearly visible.

      Come on? Why didn't I notice them!
      Quote: yuriy1863
      unfortunately, the level of combat training, especially in terms of damage control of the ship (in the case of the "Moscow"), is sincerely regrettable

      Were you in Moscow at that moment?
      Quote: yuriy1863
      not tell stories

      what Is the author supposed to study, analyze and draw fundamental conclusions?
    3. 0
      10 February 2023 14: 00
      Quote: yuriy1863
      By the way, in the photos of the Moskva missile cruiser mentioned by the author, the places where the ship was hit are quite clearly visible.

      So show these places in the photos, please. Just circle them with red circles.
    4. +1
      11 February 2023 03: 22
      Quote: yuriy1863
      reckoning the losses of the RKR "Moskva" and the BDK "Saratov" to non-combat ones, cause only a bitter smile.

      Let me ask you why the "bitter smile" did not cause you to attribute the death of the Ukrainian control ship A500 "Donbas" to non-combat loss?
      See it's on fire

      Above I posted a photo where it is flooded.
      So why are you not outraged that I attributed the death of this ship to non-combat loss of the Ukrainian fleet?
      Or is it different?
      Quote: yuriy1863
      By the way, on the photos of the Moskva missile cruiser mentioned by the author, the places of destruction of the ship are quite clearly visible

      This is what a hole looks like from a hit by an Exocet anti-ship missile, the weight of the warhead of which is almost the same as that of the Neptune missile.

      You were called here "a person who knows and understands the topic." If so, it will not be difficult for you to show the same holes in the photo with the "Moscow".
  8. +14
    10 February 2023 08: 04
    The fate of the tug "Rescuer Vasily Bekh" before the appearance of the corresponding official message from the Russian side or video footage from the Ukrainian side, depicting the sinking of the ship under water, remains unknown to us.
    It seems to me that a ship with a displacement of 1670 tons (like a corvette) is difficult to hide. If there are even pictures of raptors. Many underestimate this loss, such as the tugboat. In fact, this is quite such a serious modern rescuer, very expensive in terms of cost (imported equipment) - perhaps the most expensive of the lost Black Sea Fleets.
    1. -1
      12 February 2023 03: 42
      Quote: Stirbjorn
      It seems to me that a ship with a displacement of 1670 tons (like a corvette) is difficult to hide. Many underestimate this loss, such as the tug

      Doubts are not in an empty place, here is a photograph of a frigate that entered service in March 1944 of the year. Displacement 2 240 tons.
      Thirty years later, he was blasted in an exercise with an Exocet anti-ship missile. She was then towed to Gibraltar for damage analysis and repairs.
      Four years later, he was shot at again, this time with two Exocet missiles.


      The ship, at least henna, as you can see, had to be finished off with a torpedo from a nuclear submarine.
      And this is an old, worn-out World War II veteran.
      Why should I take the word of the media that two missiles sank a tugboat that was only five years old, and with a displacement 1 670 tons?
      Moreover, Ukraine does not claim to sink it.
      Bayraktar was there, it didn't cost him anything to go down and shoot a close-up of what happens to the Beh after the missiles hit it. I have no doubt that the UAV did just that. Well, where are the frames or screenshots?
      It cannot be ruled out that the tug is lost, but there are reasons to doubt it.
      And I presented them to you.
      So we are waiting for information.
  9. +8
    10 February 2023 11: 36
    It's fun to read. Before the war in the VO, they so carefully convinced, including each other, that Ukraine does not have any fleet, except perhaps rubber boats, that it is funny to read about its losses now.
  10. +5
    10 February 2023 13: 20
    Russia has no luck with the Black Sea Fleet.
    In World War I, one "Goeben" terrorized our entire fleet, even shelled Nikolasha's dacha Number Two in Yalta.
    In World War II, "things" drove the battleship / cruiser "for Mozhay" - to Poti, where they stood for the entire war.
    And who leaned out - received from the "Ju-87" and "Henschel-111" quickly and specifically.
    And in this war, the entire Black Sea Fleet was dispersed by plywood "bayraktars".
    The enemies of our fleet are getting smaller and smaller.
    Or maybe the naval commanders are getting smaller?
    1. +1
      11 February 2023 12: 20
      Little amendment.
      The German bomber was called "Henkel 111" (Heinkel 111).
      Henschel is a completely different machine. hi
    2. +1
      12 February 2023 21: 42
      In World War II, "things" drove a battleship / cruiser "beyond Mozhai"


      Moreover, at the beginning of the war, the Black Sea Fleet Air Force had 2 air brigades, 2 separate air regiments and 11 separate squadrons (a total of 639 combat aircraft). The Germans on the Black Sea did not have so many.
  11. +2
    10 February 2023 13: 21
    The article is interesting, but it would be nice to arrange it with diagrams, tables, maps with geotags, places where ships and boats were hit.
    This is how it is now accepted.
    It's not difficult at all.

    We hope that there will be other articles on all types of military equipment (aviation, tanks, infantry fighting vehicles) with an analysis and a general analysis of the situation.

    As for armored vehicles, it should turn out very interesting.
    In some cases, there were quite large losses in small sections of the front.

    Just do not need to separate equipment according to belonging to the Army and PMCs.
    After all, we did not separate the Bendery equipment in our reports: "this burned-out tank is from the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and we will not take into account that one, it is from a military or national battalion."
    1. +2
      12 February 2023 03: 52
      Quote: Comrade Kim
      The article is interesting, but it would be nice to arrange it with diagrams, tables, maps with geotags, places where ships and boats were hit.

      Thank you for your kind words, colleague.
      However, given that the article was written on sheer enthusiasm, I think that what we have is quite enough.
      There are paid authors here, perhaps one of them will take up the implementation of your practical proposals.
      Quote: Comrade Kim
      We hope that there will be other articles on all types of military equipment (aviation, tanks, infantry fighting vehicles) with an analysis and a general analysis of the situation.

      Yes it would be nice. Here are the cards in their hands.
  12. +6
    10 February 2023 16: 11
    Konashenkov wrote an article or something? It’s disgusting to read. Their entire fleet was destroyed, while ours drowned and burned down. The manner of keeping your people behind our leadership is no longer just annoying .........
    1. -4
      10 February 2023 22: 23
      Quote: vlad20000
      disgusting to read. their entire fleet is destroyed

      Only three ships were destroyed, the rest were destroyed or simply abandoned by deserted Ukrainian sailors.

      I understand your feelings, colleague.
      In the article, your obedient servant posted several photographs of Ukrainian ships, if you are interested in other cases, then you indicate which ones.
      Photos from will be presented to you. By the way, how do you like the "wolf cub" under the St. Andrew's flag, does it look normal?
  13. +4
    10 February 2023 21: 14
    The article causes a depressing impression, even considering that it is placed in the "Opinions" section. Minimum objectivity, maximum agitprop...
    1. 0
      10 February 2023 22: 26
      Quote: WFP-1
      The article is depressing

      Yes, it's hard to disagree with that. The Ukrainians themselves either sank their ships or left them unharmed.
      Would you like some more pics? Check their authenticity - just spit. You were told on TV that the Ukrainian fleet is a force.
      But in fact, that's how it turned out ...
      The ships were abandoned and went home.
      This is hard for you to digest.
      1. +1
        11 February 2023 03: 31
        Here, by the way, on the rights of "maximum agitprop", as you deigned to put it.
        Screenshot from the video of the tug "Korets", its crew deserted from the ship. Full displacement - 1452 tons.
        Fas:

        Profile :


        I have a colleague each The Ukrainian ship or boat on the list has photographic evidence that the crew either abandoned it or sank it.
        1. +1
          13 February 2023 08: 32
          Quote: Comrade
          Screenshot from the video of the tug "Korets"

          The MB-30 was abandoned by the Ukrainian military for the second time, in 2014 the Black Sea Fleet returned it to Ukraine as unnecessary. Been there a couple of times back in the 80s. My zema went on it in boatswains ...
  14. +3
    11 February 2023 04: 01
    Well, a comparison ... On both sides, losses in the form of some small-sized boats are more like small fishing boats. I remember that PyatyaBorets reported at the very beginning of the SVO about the destruction of the Ukrainian fleet. And then there was "Moscow" and the incident in Berdyansk, which are still covered exclusively by private experts in Telegram channels. All this is very sad.
    Our Black Sea Fleet was tortured and tortured for a long time. In this war, his participation is extremely small. Much has been written about nepotism and corruption in the Navy. Perhaps this is the reason for the lack of readiness. Although there are also strategic miscalculations, as well as an outdated concept of using the fleet as a whole. In the modern world, drones and missiles decide a lot. The days of big ships are over.
    1. +3
      12 February 2023 03: 14
      Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
      The days of big ships are over.

      Obviously, it is for this reason that the Americans are building nuclear aircraft carriers of the Gerald R. Ford type with might and main.

      Scheduled commissioning dates:
      John F. Kennedy - 2024
      Enterprise - 2027
      Doris Miller - 2030
      The name is still unknown - 2034.
  15. +2
    11 February 2023 04: 04
    Quote: Comrade
    Screenshot from the video of the tug "Korets"

    Yes, one look at this ship is enough to understand that it was made when my grandfather went to school laughing
    Maybe they abandoned it so as not to dispose of it ??? laughing
    1. +1
      11 February 2023 05: 28
      Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
      Maybe they abandoned it so as not to dispose of it ???

      And the flagship "Hetman Sahaydachny" was sunk so as not to be repaired?
    2. +2
      12 February 2023 13: 44
      what did they do when my grandfather went to school
      - by simple calculations it turns out that you are a schoolboy ....
    3. +1
      12 February 2023 21: 49
      You are wrong. the tug is relatively new, built in 1973.
      He is only 50 years old. laughing
      1. +1
        13 February 2023 08: 38
        Quote from: dump22
        the tug is relatively new, built in 1973.

        According to Soviet plans for the rotation of equipment, he was supposed to go back in 92 to the Inkerman wall for cutting into scrap ...
        1. +1
          14 February 2023 04: 22
          Quote: Serg65
          According to Soviet plans for the rotation of equipment, he was supposed to go back in 92 to the Inkerman wall for cutting into scrap ..

          And when were they supposed to send the Volkhov rescue ship, which entered service in XNUMX, for cutting?
          1. +3
            14 February 2023 08: 48
            Quote: Comrade
            And when they were supposed to send the Volkhov rescue ship for cutting

            "Commune" was replaced by SS "Elbrus" pr. 537

            And "Commune" in the 84th was excluded from the lists of the Navy with the transfer to the Institute of the South Seas of the USSR Academy of Sciences, I do not know all the details, but the institute reacted coolly to the new acquisition. Then they plundered the "Commune" notably. But there would be no happiness, but misfortune helped ... "Elbrus" was born with a bunch of childhood illnesses and often stood in minor repairs .. that is. the fleet periodically remained without lifting and rescue equipment, so in the 85th "Commune" was again returned to service, but with a civilian crew ... and so it still serves!
            And "Elbrus" got up in the 89th for repairs, left there completely crippled ... and died in Turkey on the 98th!
            1. +1
              15 February 2023 02: 31
              Quote: Serg65
              And "Commune" in the 84th was excluded from the lists of the Navy. Then they plundered the "Commune" notably. In 85, the "Commune" was again returned to service, but with a civilian crew ... and so it still serves!

              Something reminded the fate of the American rescue ship Edenton. Which, by the way, older Ukrainian tug "Korets" two year.
              In 1996 year Edenton was decommissioned ("Korza", you wrote, should have been written off at 1992 году), but in 1999 he liked the Coast Guard, where he serves to this day.
              1. +2
                15 February 2023 10: 15
                Quote: Comrade
                recalled the fate of the American rescue ship Edenton.

                what The commune is not as cinematic as Lech Hailey, First Sergeant Hailey is a noble movie character, but yes...their fate is similar!
    4. +2
      13 February 2023 08: 35
      Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
      Yes, one look at this ship is enough to understand that it was made when my grandfather went to school

      Given that the MB-30 was built in 1973 ... what boy, what do you know about life?
  16. -1
    11 February 2023 04: 07
    Technically, the statistics of the dead / captured, raised for commissioning is normal, in our favor .. But the media component in this operation was lost to zero both at sea and on land .. And a layer (so far) of critically neutral and openly opposition people appears in the country at the age of 25-35 years old working both in middle-level administrative institutions and ooshkas (where the corporate spirit determines the leadership) and this is dangerous by a cardinal change in the main course in domestic and foreign policy in 15-20 years
  17. 0
    11 February 2023 04: 08
    Quote: Comrade Kim
    We hope that there will be other articles on all types of military equipment (aviation, tanks, infantry fighting vehicles) with an analysis and a general analysis of the situation.

    Agree! Such materials are definitely needed. But, their time will come a little later. Now everyone is hiding the truth, both ours and the Ukrainian. And only the pioneers believe the figures recorded in the reports, and they are given for the general background, having nothing to do with reality.
    The last example of the destruction of the Marines of the Pacific Fleet is very significant. As it turned out today, it was a completely different unit ... There are too many lies around.
    1. +2
      11 February 2023 05: 45
      Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
      Agree! Such materials are definitely needed.

      What for ?
      People like you will come and object that all the broken equipment of Ukraine is old, that if the Ukrainian tank is abandoned, it means that the crew was simply too lazy to go to the nearest scrap metal collection point.
      That all downed Ukrainian planes are worthless, that the killed and crippled Bandera people are simply untrained invalids.
      That the killed foreign mercenaries were simply volunteers who handed out bread to the population.
      That the damaged power plants in Ukraine were built a long time ago, so they were of no value, which means there was no point in wasting missiles on them.
      Well, and so on in the same vein.
  18. +2
    11 February 2023 09: 05
    Quote: Civil
    Well, let's mark all the losses of the Black Sea Fleet as non-combat and insignificant, then the question arises: What does the Black Sea Fleet do besides launches of Caliber, which can be delivered from the Caspian quite well? Landing operations? Blockade of enemy ports?


    The fleet solves the tasks that the NWO command sets. Ask questions to the command.
    It believes, probably, that there is no more work for the fleet for the time being. No, and there is no trial.
    1. +2
      12 February 2023 11: 17
      Quote: Illanatol
      The fleet solves the tasks that the NWO command sets. Ask questions to the command.
      It believes, probably, that there is no more work for the fleet for the time being. No, and there is no trial.

      And perhaps the tasks are set depending on the capabilities of the fleet?
      1. +1
        13 February 2023 08: 42
        Quote: MyVrach
        And perhaps the tasks are set depending on the capabilities of the fleet?

        This is exactly what happens, can the fleet bring the enemy's industry to zero? Maybe! And if you can, so here's your first task...destroy the energy of Ukraine!
        And what would you like to see in the execution of the fleet?
  19. +2
    11 February 2023 09: 09
    Quote: Comrade
    Only three ships were destroyed, the rest were destroyed or simply abandoned by deserted Ukrainian sailors.


    What's the difference? The loss of combat units is evident. And abandoning ships, leaving them to the enemy, is more shameful than losing them in battle. Abandoned or even sunken ships can be used by the enemy in the future for their own needs.

    An analogue of the Russian "Day of the Navy" in Ukraine should be the "Day of the Tin Man". tongue
    1. +1
      12 February 2023 02: 53
      Quote: Illanatol
      What's the difference? The loss of combat units is evident.

      True, but it is common practice to separate combat and non-combat losses across all branches of the military. For the sake of accuracy and clarity for.
      Quote: Illanatol
      abandoning ships, leaving them to the enemy, is more shameful than losing them in battle.

      The piquancy of the situation is given by the fact that NATO specialists have been fiddling with the Ukrainian fleet for many years. Taught, coached, coached. In the joint exercises, the flagship "Hetman Sagaidachny" hung out beautifully among the NATO ships.

      But then they learned in Kyiv that the "orcs" were coming, and immediately gave the order to flood the "Hetman". And those who did not receive the order, they simply took off from their "troughs". And how beautifully it all began - look, everyone, here we are with NATO in the same ranks, now we will assemble the "wolf pack" and then we will show these "orcs"!
      1. 0
        12 February 2023 22: 13
        the flagship "Hetman Sagaidachny" hung out beautifully among the NATO ships.


        You flattered him a lot.
        Their "flagship" is a former border guard with only 3 displacement. And even without any strike weapons.
        For comparison, the destroyer Arleigh Burke has twice the displacement and carries 96 missiles.
  20. -1
    11 February 2023 09: 14
    Quote: Seamaster
    In World War II, "things" drove the battleship / cruiser "for Mozhay" - to Poti, where they stood for the entire war.
    And who leaned out - received from the "Ju-87" and "Henschel-111" quickly and specifically.
    And in this war, the entire Black Sea Fleet was dispersed by plywood "bayraktars".


    It's good to drive. But what about in the Second World War, Hitler did not dare to introduce large surface ships into the Black Sea?
    And who provided the landing operations of our troops in this theater of operations?

    And how were the "bayraktars" of the Black Sea Fleet dispersed there? Where exactly? It seems that our Black Sea Fleet remains in place and continues to shoot rackets. Well, how many bayraktars went to see the fish - we will count when everything is over.
    1. +2
      12 February 2023 19: 28
      The loss of the flagship of the fleet "Moskva" and together "Rescuer Beh" is simply a disaster and a HUGE SHAME and humiliation to our fleet. To count in numbers the flooded and lined Ukrainian rubbish, I consider it the lot of the poor ..
    2. +2
      12 February 2023 22: 29
      But what about in the Second World War, Hitler did not dare to introduce large surface ships into the Black Sea?


      So the Turks did not let them through the Bosphorus.
      Neither large nor small German ships. None.
      The Germans had to lower their small submarines (class IIB) from the Baltic to the Danube on land and deliver them along the river to the Black Sea. They managed to transport 6 pieces in this way.
      And another 16 torpedo boats were also transported in the same way.

      This "fleet" made up all the German forces in the Black Sea.
      In addition, they had 3 old Romanian submarines.
      1. +2
        13 February 2023 10: 11
        Quote from: dump22
        So the Turks did not let them through the Bosphorus.

        Bulgaria and Romania could fictitiously buy up to a destroyer ... but Italy did not have free destroyers.
        Quote from: dump22
        They managed to transport 6 pieces in this way.
        And another 16 torpedo boats were also transported in the same way.

        This "fleet" made up all the German forces in the Black Sea.
        In addition, they had 3 old Romanian submarines.

        You are a little wrong ..
        6 PL IIB
        13 TC type S
        20 ktr type R
        10 "Ladoga battleships"
        140 BDB type F
        Italy
        6 MPL type SV
        6 TC type MAS
        5 TC type MTSM
        5 exploding MTM boats
        Romania
        4 EM
        1 destroyer
        1 minzag
        5 gunboats
        4 submarines
        14 TC
  21. +1
    11 February 2023 11: 50
    The death of "Moscow" is shameful and unforgivable for our fleet. Regardless of the causes of this death (the impact of the enemy, the negligence of the crew, some force majeure circumstances). This just shouldn't have happened. This is even worse than Tsushima - there our fleet fought with a skilled and strong enemy.
    1. 0
      15 February 2024 02: 10
      There the fleet fought, here it catches drones and missiles and goes to the bottom without a fight, from an enemy who does not have a fleet. The Black Sea Fleet is already the weakest, and it may simply end before the end of this moronic non-war
  22. +2
    11 February 2023 13: 22
    How great is the combat value of captured boats?
    1. +2
      12 February 2023 04: 02
      Quote: Pavel57
      How great is the combat value of captured boats?

      Everything is relative.
      Under President Poroshenko, at whose enterprise these boats were built, the latter were presented to the public as a Ukrainian miracle weapon. Like, four boats will jokingly sink a frigate-class ship and seriously damage the cruiser. Even those who served on these boats believed in it.
      Our specialists, after practical tests, recognized these boats as unsuitable for the tasks that the Ukrainian presidents set for them.
      Perhaps, as patrolmen, they will serve well in the Black Sea Fleet.
  23. 0
    11 February 2023 13: 50
    Taking into account the range of action of modern coastal anti-ship systems and, moreover, aviation, the role of today's Black Sea and Baltic Fleets should be reduced to protecting the border and fighting smugglers. For this, ships of the coastal zone are enough.
    Mining by the Ukrainians of the coast of Odessa showed zero opportunities for the BDK in this theater of operations.
    The death of the cruiser Moscow clearly showed that in the Baltic and the Black Sea, large ships today are just good targets and are not able to realize their full combat potential.
    Powerful ocean fleets are needed only in the Northern and Pacific Fleets, where it is necessary to operate at a great distance from the coast in order to ensure the combat stability of the SSBNs.
    From the same fleets, frigates can be sent to dangerous regions to carry out escort functions.
    1. 0
      15 February 2024 02: 12
      The ships are fine, but they have nothing to fight off missiles and drones. And they’re just being shot at like mobs from all sides, and he’s not even able to respond.
  24. +2
    11 February 2023 16: 09
    "In general, all the tasks set for 2022 have been completed by the armed forces. Their combat capabilities have grown by more than 13%," Russian Defense Minister S.K. Shoigu
  25. +1
    13 February 2023 09: 36
    The death of the cruiser Moscow more than covers all Ukrainian pelvises. And as far as I know, no one has been punished for this.
  26. 0
    13 February 2023 15: 51
    The Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation certainly has opportunities to prove itself. I will not declassify, but the total number of potential opportunities not realized by the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation is at least fifty. It's a shame for the fleet, they cheat, but the sailors. We need to be more active, and not hide behind the backs of those who fight on the battlefields, we need to support our RF Armed Forces in the Northern Military District. THE WHOLE BLACK SEA FLEET OF RUSSIA and not to use it to the fullest! This is generally outright negligence and slovenliness. Every ship, every military unit of the fleet can and should be involved in the interests of the NVO!
  27. 0
    15 February 2024 02: 09
    The BDK will soon end, there will be no more landings in Odessa, I won’t see any landings, the Black Sea Fleet has air defense, it doesn’t have it, the BDK literally had no air defense at all, because what is there is not air defense, but garbage. Before the end of the war, the remnants of the fleet will be finished off and it will cease to exist, there will be another stage without a fleet, as after the Crimean War. And the craziest thing is that the sailors died on these rotten troughs. They brought calibers to the ships, but forgot about air defense. Now Russia certainly does not need aircraft carriers, since they will sink like everything else. Air defense on ships is needed and the sooner the better.