“The Syrian experience played a cruel joke”: Russian artillerymen spoke about the problems in coordinating the strike at the beginning of the NWO

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“The Syrian experience played a cruel joke”: Russian artillerymen spoke about the problems in coordinating the strike at the beginning of the NWO

After the start of providing assistance to the Syrian authorities in the fight against terrorists, the Russian military leadership gained new experience and built a new battle management system. In the context of conducting military operations in the SAR with a limited contingent of the RF Armed Forces, it seemed that the digitalization of command posts could make it possible to tightly but effectively centralize command and control of troops.

With the beginning of the NWO, the so-called "Syrian experience" played a cruel joke on us. This is when all decisions to defeat, from all intelligence objects, were made at the command post

- the artillerymen of the 150th motorized rifle division, who are actively participating in the special operation, say that they know firsthand about the existing problems.



According to them, it took about two minutes (“deadly long”) for information, for example, from the Orlan UAV, about the location of the enemy, to reach the monitor of the “big boss”, which gave the order to strike. As noted, some commanders continue to practice fire control according to the "Syrian scheme", although in general the troops have already reorganized and orders to hit targets are given at the grassroots level.

So, in the 150th Motor Rifle Division, the command of the subunits independently makes decisions on delivering strikes: the artillery regiment, without excessive coordination with higher headquarters, is responsible for counter-battery combat and the destruction of reserves, and the divisions work in the interests of the troops in the first echelon.

According to the gunners, this was made possible by equipping artillery units with their own reconnaissance equipment (radar, sound and optical), acquired mainly with the money of military personnel or through the efforts of volunteers. To coordinate actions, a network was built based on Motorola digital radio stations.



At the same time, there is a concern that the desire of the military department to register materiel (the same reconnaissance Drones), obtained privately, can lead to the formal “staffing” of units with the necessary property, which in fact is a consumable.

But for coordinated work on an ongoing basis, continuous deliveries are required, for example, UAVs. So, one soldier shot down his own Matrice 30t quadrocopter, mistaking it for the enemy. He saw the drone at an altitude of 200 m, a 5,45-mm bullet hit the battery, the drone caught fire and fell.

As stated, in general, due to the equipment of artillery units with drones, the tactics of striking have changed. Now the combat mission is carried out mainly at the shooting stage. The drone provides target designation, the spotter determines the gap deviation, and the senior battery officer takes into account the corrections. As a result, only a few projectiles are required to hit the target.

As an example, video material is given, which recorded the suppression of an enemy control point. It was placed near the church complex, apparently with the intent that Russian troops would not work on the monastery. The task was set to stop the functioning of the enemy point. The calculation of the gun coped with it, having spent only two shells, which saved the church, which had already suffered during the battles, from complete destruction.

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  1. -34
    8 February 2023 09: 19
    I didn’t believe something, from 200 meters to fill up a small target in the air from a Kalash ???? Let this soldier drive.
    1. +11
      8 February 2023 09: 26
      there is a video where a Ukrainian UAV is shot down by our fighters. I think you are unlikely to trample against the video)
      1. +9
        8 February 2023 11: 50
        the desire of the military department to register the materiel (the same reconnaissance drones) obtained privately can lead to the formal “staffing” of units

        Or to corrupt thoughts about appropriating funds for the purchase of this materiel, allegedly for budget money.
    2. +11
      8 February 2023 09: 40
      During the Second World War, there were cases when German planes were shot down with a single shot from Mosinka. But this is a clear coincidence. Why couldn't a fighter accidentally shoot down a UAV? Could, but I emphasize - by accident.
      1. Egg
        +10
        8 February 2023 11: 03
        Quote: Amateur
        But this is a clear coincidence.

        I wouldn't be so categorical. In 82, I heard a story from an old-timer in Surgut, I don’t know, maybe it’s a tale, of course ... in the mid-70s, flyers on a maize plant decided to scare the hunt on the lake, once they dived, the hunt fell into the boat with his face, rzhachno, 2 dived, 3 times the hunt grabbed the mosquito and loaded the pilot with 1 shot in the forehead, the plane into the water, 1 flyer swam out, and the hunt did not even look for who could distinguish them ancient in the tundra ... wild people laughing
      2. +2
        9 February 2023 04: 17
        In Vietnam, it seems, there was a practice that when an air target appeared, everyone lay down on the ground and fired from everything that was, it seemed like they even shot down something
        1. BAI
          +1
          9 February 2023 12: 25
          everyone lay down on the ground and shot from everything that was

          This is an old practice. included in the statute.


    3. +3
      8 February 2023 09: 41
      353×267 is quite a normal size.
      1. 0
        9 February 2023 00: 28
        Head figure. At 200 m, a sure hit.
    4. AAC
      +13
      8 February 2023 09: 48
      A soldier must hit a growth target at a distance of 400m. I confidently throw at the head target from 200m. Just the size of a matrix. Understanding ballistics in anti-aircraft fire with a lot of rounds is not difficult. You can also use tracers. At 200m, even the 2nd mini is clearly visible. Only the matrix costs from 1.5 lama. I think the "sniper" was discharged in full.
      1. +1
        8 February 2023 10: 05
        Yes, there may have been a Chinese copter for 5500r, with a camera attached with blue electrical tape. Buy from salary wassat
        The Moscow Region will write it off, but the gunners will not forgive. I'll have to buy a new one, on Kazan Express
      2. +1
        8 February 2023 15: 25
        200m head or chest? and from what?
    5. -1
      8 February 2023 10: 05
      Quote from Silver99
      I didn’t believe something, from 200 meters to fill up a small target in the air from a Kalash ???? Let this soldier drive.

      So, one soldier shot down his own Matrice 30t quadrocopter, mistaking it for the enemy. He saw the drone at an altitude of 200 m, a 5,45-mm bullet hit the battery, the drone caught fire and fell.
      Where did you read that from Kalash? Did you determine the bullet caliber? So journalists write such things that you can’t pull on your head! laughing
      1. +1
        8 February 2023 11: 04
        So, one soldier shot down his own Matrice 30t quadrocopter, mistaking it for the enemy. He saw the drone at an altitude of 200 m, a 5,45-mm bullet hit the battery, the drone caught fire and fell.
        be that as it may, but a handsome fighter ... (a three-line rifle, on a canvas belt, and cartridges, with that "head" that is terrible for steel armor) according to Tvardovsky. shoot down for 200 meters ... a Siberian hunter or something?)))
    6. +1
      9 February 2023 07: 35
      It is a fact. The commander of this soldier later wrote an explanatory note about this.
    7. +1
      9 February 2023 10: 42
      200m is normal, it is logical to assume that he did not work alone, but at least the squad was concentrated by fire. If the drone freezes, and there are enough tracers in the store, then it’s real to hit.
  2. +4
    8 February 2023 09: 37
    The fact that they rebuilt and reduced the number of approvals is very good. Quick decision making is a big half of success.
    1. +3
      8 February 2023 11: 05
      Quote: Leshak
      The fact that they rebuilt and reduced the number of approvals is very good. Quick decision making is a big half of success.
      what kills is that the generals are again "pulling the blanket" on themselves.
    2. -2
      9 February 2023 00: 34
      Baika is. There is no such "organization" for artillery to shoot at all, let alone "faster", without a CP. Remove the cockpit. The plane will take off faster, right?
  3. -5
    8 February 2023 09: 37
    According to them, it was required about two minutes (“deadly long”) so that information, for example, from the Orlan UAV, about the location of the enemy, reaches the monitor of the “big boss”, which gave the order to strike.

    2 minutes before the boss, 2 more minutes ago, from the boss to the performer + X minutes to make a decision.
    Let's say X=5 minutes. In total it turns out 9 minutes. During this time, unless it is a fast-moving single vehicle/tank/self-propelled gun, nothing significant will happen.
    If X >= 1 hour or more, then this is the fault of the boss, not the CS (control system)
    For such purposes, a reaction with a greater speed is really needed. It just needs to introduce one more element of target selection.
    In general, the article is kind of "muddy"
    1. +2
      8 February 2023 09: 44
      During this time, unless it is a fast-moving single vehicle/tank/self-propelled gun, nothing significant will happen.
      And how much time does the MLRS need for a salvo and change of position. Or how many shots will Caesar or Archer have time to fire, even if he is immediately spotted, before the command to kill is given?
      1. +4
        8 February 2023 11: 07
        Quote: Alex_Bora
        During this time, unless it is a fast-moving single vehicle/tank/self-propelled gun, nothing significant will happen.
        And how much time does the MLRS need for a salvo and change of position. Or how many shots will Caesar or Archer have time to fire, even if he is immediately spotted, before the command to kill is given?

        watch the video of how "three axes" are folded in 1.5 minutes. (Not where they cut out frozen ground with a chainsaw)
    2. +2
      8 February 2023 10: 10
      . Let's say X=5 minutes. In total it turns out 9 minutes.

      Rzoshniki say 4 minutes is enough to fire a volley and dump. On the hail 5 minutes, on the tornado 4 minutes. Some 2 minutes. As I understand it, if you don’t need to climb out of the cockpit on new systems - press the button, the rocket is gone, then 2 minutes
  4. fiv
    +6
    8 February 2023 09: 42
    own means of reconnaissance (radar, sound and optical), acquired mainly with the money of military personnel or through the efforts of volunteers.

    I hope that people who contribute to the appearance of all this in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, who collect money, who donate, will not forget their native fatherland. People will not forget them.
    1. +1
      9 February 2023 10: 45
      He has his own reconnaissance equipment (orlan) ... From quadrics, only infantry can give out artillery coordinates ...
    2. 0
      13 February 2023 09: 26
      As folk wisdom says, "the motherland will not forget you!, but it will not remember ....."
  5. +1
    8 February 2023 09: 46
    At the same time, there is a concern that the desire of the military department to register the materiel (the same reconnaissance drones) obtained privately may lead to the formal “staffing” of the units with the necessary property, which in fact is a consumable.

    In-from. It has long been in my head beat such an idea that it is necessary to revise the list of consumables. A UAV is not a "standard equipment", but a consumable material - sooner or later it will be neutralized, and a new one is needed. And you also need to write down banal batteries in consumables - how much crap with them was at first. Well, a flashlight is banal - a necessity, and not on batteries - will I plug them in my ass in the field for recharging? And someone out there and got hold of a collimator, he eats batteries, for example ...
    1. +1
      8 February 2023 23: 04
      You will connect it to the generator and power banks. Like your cell phone and walkie-talkie. Or do you think MO will carry batteries with "zinc" for you? No matter how.
      1. +1
        8 February 2023 23: 11
        What is more expensive cartridge or battery?
        maybe life...
        1. +1
          8 February 2023 23: 34
          Ask your company commander. He will tell you what is more precious than your life or patron.
      2. 0
        9 February 2023 00: 38
        Now I don’t know how, but before the officers had flashlights, even three-color ones. Shatnye. And of course the batteries were changed in the warehouse, at the ensign. How else ?
  6. +5
    8 February 2023 09: 53
    In Syria, the enemy were jihadist groups that were constantly at war with each other and were sluggishly supported by the West. Even then, the Russian army did not have to fight them face to face. The Alawites (who make up 10% of the Syrian population but are in fact masters of the other 90%) and Iranian-backed Iraqi Shiite groups have fought all the ground combat.

    But in Ukraine everything is different. Here the Russian army is waging a real war, but likes to call it "Special Military Operation". In Syria, the Russian army actually carried out a special military operation, but they like to call it a war.
    However, once the war in Ukraine is over, the Russian army will be stronger than in the past, even with half the ammunition.
  7. +7
    8 February 2023 09: 54
    With a normal artillery control system, zeroing is essentially not required.
    The drone determines the position with an accuracy of tens of centimeters, the operator verifies the target, the central computer selects the optimal artillery mount (not necessarily the closest one), and the guidance goes straight to the target according to the laws of ballistics.
    1. +4
      9 February 2023 00: 42
      Wow, that's not entirely true. I regret that I cannot write an article on exactly how artillery fires. There are too many misconceptions here. The artillery captain himself, but the Russian is not native, the editors will not accept me ...
    2. +1
      10 February 2023 10: 04
      You are wrong. Nobody canceled the dispersion ellipse and errors in the preparation of shooting. Zeroing is the most accurate way to determine settings for hitting targets. This does not apply to firing precision-guided munitions, but there are few of them.
  8. +7
    8 February 2023 09: 56
    Established a connection with the help of "Motorola" ...
    1. +2
      9 February 2023 08: 12
      communication via telegrams and tapik guns
  9. +10
    8 February 2023 10: 00
    It was not the Syrian experience that played, but the stubbornness of some military leaders. The command and control system must be not only reliable, but also flexible and adapt quickly to war conditions. And the material support must be sufficient. Although ... what is there to talk about if our military theorists (read the General Staff) could not calculate the conditions of the war, from logistics to the morale of a soldier.
    1. +1
      8 February 2023 10: 21
      Quote: Andron78
      It was not the Syrian experience that played, but the stubbornness of some military leaders.

      The fact that generals are always preparing for the last war has long been known. Only this is not from stupidity, but because experience in the war is paid in blood and it is not so easy to decide to change everything.
      1. +1
        8 February 2023 16: 23
        Great phrase "experience in war is paid for in blood." It is for this reason that with blood, one should not stupidly apply the experience of past battles, but use it to develop new strategies and tactics for a specific theater of operations.
        1. 0
          8 February 2023 21: 06
          Quote: Andron78
          but use it to develop new strategies and tactics for a specific theater

          And so it happens. But the price is still the same, because no one will change the system without new experience.
      2. +3
        8 February 2023 23: 17
        Quote: Dart2027
        Quote: Andron78
        It was not the Syrian experience that played, but the stubbornness of some military leaders.

        The fact that generals are always preparing for the last war has long been known. Only this is not from stupidity, but because experience in the war is paid in blood and it is not so easy to decide to change everything.

        So let's get ready for the year before last! During the Second World War, the Germans on the reconnaissance plane had a walkie-talkie directly connected with small advancing tank and artillery groups on the ground. Absolutely the same work that the drone is doing now was performed by a manned "frame". If the generals are not smart enough to master the new, then let them at least read about the old in paper books. Who has poor eyesight, let them study Operation Blue on YouTube. Igor Sdvizhkov on Tactic Media channel. There it is very picturesquely told how much blood they drank from us in the summer until they were surrounded near Stalingrad. And the reason for the initial crashes there was also the snickering military commanders, who, to numerous requests from the Stavka, answered that they were all hurt, and they themselves did not even fulfill the ordinary provisions of the charter.
        1. -1
          9 February 2023 00: 50
          The reconnaissance aircraft is attached to a corps, very rarely to a division. And he reports, of course, to the command post of the corps, there can be no talk of any connection with "small tank and art groups". And in the Second World War, and in WWI, and in our time, the same thing. A drone is a divisional and even a regimental link. And again at the CP resp. parts works, not on divisions and groups.
        2. 0
          9 February 2023 09: 29
          Quote: Hagakure
          Operation Blue

          Is this again about tank breakthroughs? I do not remember how many times it was explained that with a bunch of satellites overhead, this is not the best idea.
          Quote: Hagakure
          So let's get ready for the year before last!

          And why not to Suvorov?
    2. +8
      8 February 2023 14: 02
      There is one retired colonel from the General Staff here in the media space. Trukhan. So he growled almost with hatred at such a question. "Are we supposed to open fire from artillery at the request of the sergeant ?!"
      This is all you need to know about the organization of network-centric wars and horizontal ties in the Russian army. I believe that for some commanders the very idea that their subordinates can make decisions THEM themselves is blasphemy and the basis for burning a heretic.
      Although there are plenty of such people in civilian life. Remember "Irreplaceable Wick" (1967)
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRHSJlKVvpE
      Just in peacetime, it's not so critical.
      I watched a video with the training of US pilots. So there, one of the most important factors for victory in battle was considered the speed of decision-making. Something similar was seen by ESLMNP on the channel of the Austrian army. Where the bald chief of the Austrian headquarters general laid out analytics on the SVO And this implies delegation of authority and initiative from the grassroots.
      What for our country as a whole is the staggering of the braces and the rocking of the boat. We have been living under manual control for 20 years. The army is just one of the sections of society.
      1. +1
        9 February 2023 09: 41
        Quote: Single-n
        I watched a video with the training of US pilots. So there, one of the most important factors for victory in battle was considered the speed of decision-making.

        And they hit everything, including weddings and funerals.
        And yes, a sergeant or a company commander DEFINITELY cannot know that our DRGs or infantry may be located somewhere close to the target.
        Friendlife in this case is guaranteed ..
  10. +3
    8 February 2023 10: 07
    During the V.O.V., an accidental shot from an airplane hit Sherman’s muzzle and killed the tank commander! They couldn’t understand why he was so torn until the mechanic on the floor found a shell from the German air gun!
    1. +2
      8 February 2023 23: 03
      Quote: Sasha from Uralmash
      During the V.O.V., an accidental shot from an airplane hit Sherman’s muzzle and killed the tank commander! They couldn’t understand why he was so torn until the mechanic on the floor found a shell from the German air gun!

      During the Second World War, the commander of the Soviet Sherman drove the tank onto the embankment and, raising the barrel like an anti-aircraft gun, shot down a German plane!
    2. +2
      9 February 2023 00: 53
      And why does the tank commander have to dangle at the breech of the gun with the lock open?
  11. +4
    8 February 2023 10: 33
    Mobility, "compactness", processing speed, etc., etc. even with the Second World War the Germans worked it out. When everything from artillery to aviation was assigned to a group, corps, etc., and they themselves were in charge of everything. Here again they began to fence from a good vegetable garden.
    Surely the beautiful epaulettes decided to take over part of the glory, how could it be without their participation in the command?! ... otherwise, God forbid, they will cut them all.
    Yes, and "a good spoon for dinner ..." everything should be in place.
    1. +1
      9 February 2023 00: 56
      The hull has plenty of its own art, there is no need to add more to it. Well, two times during the entire war, you can add from the RGC.
    2. 0
      9 February 2023 09: 44
      Quote: Deadush
      When everything from artillery to aviation was assigned to a group, corps, etc., and they themselves were in charge of everything.

      And do you see a lot of our buildings in Ukraine ???
      Here we are talking about the fact that now the level of the division (conditionally !!) decides to shoot. And the people demand to reduce this level to a platoon
      1. 0
        10 February 2023 10: 36
        And do you see a lot of our buildings in Ukraine ???
        - I'm talking about the Second World War
  12. +3
    8 February 2023 11: 53
    Quote: Amateur
    During the Second World War, there were cases when German planes were shot down with a single shot from Mosinka. But this is a clear coincidence. Why couldn't a fighter accidentally shoot down a UAV? Could, but I emphasize - by accident.

    In the Korean War, they were beaten by special gunners, aircraft hunters. And they acted very successfully if the Americans believe. In the museum, I myself saw home-made anti-aircraft installations from 3 light machine guns and 4 anti-aircraft guns.
  13. -1
    8 February 2023 23: 01
    Generals are fighting with the experience of the last war ....
  14. +1
    8 February 2023 23: 29
    An interesting article, it is not clear just why it was written so early. It was possible to wait another three or four years with this "news". Yes, Vladlen Tatarsky and Admin from the RSOTM channel shouted about this back in April. However, they are not alone. "Plasma Khodakovsky", as an example - the talk of the town. Khodakovsky also fought to ensure that the gunners did not "work according to the standards for the target", but achieved real defeats of the enemy's manpower and equipment. Up to the point that he advised the company commander to take a bottle of cognac and go to the artillerymen to establish "horizontal connections" so that they would not work on a piece of paper for an unsubscribe, but actually help the assault troops. And here, less than a year later, something began to reach the leadership in the RF Ministry of Defense. It turns out that if your reconnaissance has revealed the location of six enemy tanks, then including it in the "fire engagement plan for the next two days" is somehow slow.
    1. +1
      9 February 2023 01: 00
      Up to the point that he advised the company commander to take a bottle of cognac and go to the artillerymen to establish "horizontal communications"

      Makhnovshchina is indestructible in the steppes. But this is not the case with the "late" militias, in the army, it's different wink
  15. +1
    9 February 2023 07: 42
    Quote: NG inform
    With a normal artillery control system, zeroing is essentially not required.
    The drone determines the position with an accuracy of tens of centimeters, the operator verifies the target, the central computer selects the optimal artillery mount (not necessarily the closest one), and the guidance goes straight to the target according to the laws of ballistics.


    Brilliant! I would like to know how a friend on the monitor screen of a laptop, tablet or smartphone can determine the coordinates of the target. The only case is to land the UAV on the target. Whether the truth will take off after that, no one knows.
    Illiteracy and the absence of any thought are striking, something he came up with and tells fairy tales.
    1. 0
      9 February 2023 08: 20
      Brilliant! I would like to know how a friend on the monitor screen of a laptop, tablet or smartphone can determine the coordinates of the target. The only case is to land the UAV on the target. Whether the truth will take off after that, no one knows.
      Illiteracy and the absence of any thought are striking, something he came up with and tells fairy tales.

      GPS sensor to help you. + optical rangefinder for 2 thousand rubles, on the edge of the scale as on military binoculars. In general, you would at least read something about adjusting art fire. Charter for example :)
      1. +1
        9 February 2023 09: 46
        When shooting, you need to determine the relative the position of the breaks to the target. And to open fire you need to know absolute target coordinates. That the task is a little more difficult and requires more time.
        1. 0
          10 February 2023 10: 19
          What ABSOLUTE target coordinates are we talking about? The artilleryman will not understand you. They can be rectangular (x; y) or polar (heading and range), or precise or inaccurate. Decide.
          1. 0
            2 December 2023 23: 14
            Absolute coordinates are in the coordinate system. Well, roughly, which is on the map. Relative - directly goals or reference points.
    2. 0
      9 February 2023 11: 12
      A normal control system is not a civilian quadric. There is an art control complex and, for example, 10 reconnaissance eagles, the eagle has special calculators that, given its position in space, very accurately determine the position of targets and give the guns the exact coordinates and immediately necessary corrections, charge, etc. to fire a shot ... But if the hit did not occur ( due to wind, barrel wear, and other errors), then the fire is already corrected depending on where the gap lay from the target, the necessary correction is made and a second salvo is fired ... Well, this is simplified.
      1. 0
        2 December 2023 23: 15
        There is nothing like this on board Orlan. It doesn't belong there for him.
    3. 0
      10 February 2023 00: 21
      The main difference between a reconnaissance drone and a commercial one is that the reconnaissance software calculates the coordinates of the target and displays them on the monitor screen. The mathematics of the Orlan-10/30 complex also calculates the necessary corrections for correcting artillery fire and displays them on the monitor. In theory, this data should immediately enter the unified tactical control system. Therefore, when talking about drones, we are only casually told about the ground part of the complex, and monitor screens are always blurred.
    4. 0
      10 February 2023 01: 08
      The main difference between reconnaissance systems with UAVs included in the reconnaissance-strike circuit and commercial drones that are currently widely used is the software of the complex, which calculates the coordinates of the target and displays them on the monitor screen. The mathematics of the Orlan-10/30 complexes, namely the complex, and not the drone, calculates corrections for correcting artillery fire. In theory, this data should be automatically entered into a unified tactical level control system. That is why, we are only briefly told about the ground part of reconnaissance complexes with monitor screens always blurred. All our attention is switched to the aircraft - here it is being carried, here it is being launched, here it is flying and, finally, the parachute has come out. And at the end of the report, they will show a video on which there is no service indication, at best, the crosshair "walks".
  16. +3
    9 February 2023 11: 04
    People, as always, who do not understand the organization will not understand why this is happening, but in fact everything is correct.
    Actually there are 3 main situations.
    1. This is an artillery brigade that performs the task assigned to it ... And yes, if a third-party unit requests its support, then it is necessary to request permission from the senior commander for this, because the commander of the artillery brigade does not have the right to abandon the task and do something that he someone else says, it will not be an army, but a farce, this art brigade will never hit anything at all ...
    In this case, the art unit uses its intelligence systems and themselves hit targets that they consider important for solving the task that has been set. Here, infrastructure facilities are mainly hit, or some defense lines are processed, or some routes are shot through ... Counter-battery combat is carried out only in their own interests, to complete the task.
    2. Artillery units of motorized rifle and tank brigades, they perform a common task for the entire unit, for better interaction they are usually assigned to the battalion by division, the battalion has a mortar battery, it will usually have to company, and sometimes platoon, depending on the situation, that is the company commander or platoon commander directly controls the actions of the mortar battery.
    3. An art brigade or its subunits are attached to reinforce motorized rifle or such brigades, well, or an art part of a division, they are shaved by motorized rifle and tank regiments, then they also work with the subunit, as in the second case. And if some other brigade wants the support of these units, then, of course, it will have to decide through senior commanders so that it is temporarily resubordinated.
    In the second and 3rd cases, the gunners receive target designation from the reconnaissance vehicles of other units, although they can also use their own if the motorized riflemen do not have them, or they cannot work at the required distance, if it is necessary to suppress, let's say, artillery in the depths of defense, then the quadric will definitely not reach there.
    In the second and third cases, counter-battery work is mainly carried out in the defense, while on the offensive, support is mainly carried out on the battlefield, although, of course, different targets are hit in any case.
    1. +2
      10 February 2023 10: 34
      You tried to explain on your fingers the essence of the combat use of artillery. Readers should have an understanding of what is attached and supporting artillery, the principles of planning artillery fire in various types of combat. This is a whole course of lectures to read. What is shown to us cannot be attributed to the "classic" use of artillery. Recently, I just saw a firing platoon in a firing position, and before that, only shooting with single nomadic guns.
  17. -1
    9 February 2023 18: 24
    I won’t be surprised if the decisions for destruction were made personally by the minister in front of a video camera and a TV show
  18. +1
    10 February 2023 00: 04
    And I believe that the fighter shot down the quadric. Father in the summer of 41 shot down a Junkers Yu-87 from a three-ruler. It seems that they were even going to present the Order of the Red Banner, but at that time there was no time for awards, the Western Front was collapsing. However, they were given the opportunity to address relatives by radio in the program "Letters from the Front". My father was a good shot from a rifle, even before the war, at the Leningrad Engineering School, he was among the cadets who shot weapons. I didn’t particularly believe his story until his younger brother, who during the war years worked on the Orenburg railway, told me about his condition when he heard his voice on the radio.
  19. 0
    10 February 2023 01: 12
    To the question "do you want to have checkers or to go?" the military answer that it's good to go, but it's better not to go than without "checkers". But there is nothing to be ashamed of. The vertical of power was not invented by them and not built by them.

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"