Leopard 1 tanks will also go to Ukraine, but hardly to capture the Crimea

99
Leopard 1 tanks will also go to Ukraine, but hardly to capture the Crimea

The picture is called "Waiting". Moreover, it seems that both sides of the conflict waited. And indeed, the Ukrainian troops will receive a gift that has been begging for almost a year. And we, in turn, waited until NATO began to expand supplies weapons and rake it out of all the bins to those limits, which six months ago could only be discussed.

But this gift somehow stands out from the general outline. Promising to transfer almost two hundred tanks of this type, the Germans seem to have faced an interesting situation for the first time: in the past, being the main manufacturer of these vehicles, Germany cannot provide them with the proper amount of ammunition. But, perhaps, more interesting is the fact that Leopard-1 does not at all draw on the status of modern offensive weapons, which, under the slogan “Let's help Ukraine return Crimea and other territories”, will soon flow into the Armed Forces of Ukraine, although not in rivers, but quite confident streams.



Begged for a long time


Kyiv began to beg for "Leopards-1" from Germany not yesterday, and not even six months ago. All this story with obsolete German "cats" began in April 2022, almost two months after the start of a special military operation.

This was due to the catastrophic state of the Ukrainian troops, or an attempt to enlist support from European countries. Or in general, all together - the question is already secondary and does not apply to the topic of today's material. Here, as they say, everyone will draw their own conclusions.

It is interesting here that Ukrainian diplomats, in an effort to receive cherished promises about the supply of equipment, went “to the porch” bypassing the German government. However, there was also an official request, of course, but the then Ukrainian ambassador to Germany, Andriy Melnyk, decided to turn directly to the Rheinmetall management with a request to supply the Leopards-1 APU in the maximum possible quantity.

In the office, the back of the head was scratched, the money was knocked out and the final score was rolled out: we can supply 88 Leopard tanks in the 1A5 modification, which have automation tools for preparing a shot, a thermal imager and modern communication systems. More than 110 million euros were required to pay for their delivery, technical documentation, training of crews and repair crews - in the end, taxpayers represented by ordinary burghers will pay for the banquet.


Then the German government gave a ride to this small-town initiative - after all, the myths about the red lines were still alive, and NATO countries did not have any agreement on heavy weapons for Kyiv. Now, of course, they wanted to spit on all these prohibitions. Sooner or later, the old German "cats" in the trains will roll in an orderly stream across the Polish-Ukrainian border.

True, Olaf Scholz himself does not seem to know what to do with the lack of specific ammunition for them. However, they will find it, you should not hope for a total shortage - for the same Gepard ZSU, the Germans restored the long-terminated production of shells.

But for the role of the offensive "wunderwaffe" tanks are a stretch. It is worth dwelling on this in more detail.

The tank is not the first freshness


Here, of course, it would be worth starting with the usual phrases that any tank is a tank, and it will be used as a tank with all the ensuing consequences. There is no point in arguing with this, because it is true. However, any vehicle has a combat capability limit that must be reckoned with and the combat vehicle must be used in accordance with it.

By itself, the Leopard is a car that is far from the first freshness, even if it has gone through several waves of modernization. Recall that it was developed back in the second half of the fifties, when Germany, together with France and Italy, decided to create a single "European" tank. However, nothing came of this idea, however, as a result, the French got their own AMX-30, and the Germans got the same Leopard, which was adopted by the Bundeswehr in 1965.

In general, the tank did not differ radically from its counterparts: after all, the layout is classic, the number of crew members is also “according to the classics” - four people, including the loader. And the very concept of the car and the compromises that the engineers had to make during its development are quite interesting.

Tanks "Leopard" early batches
Tanks "Leopard" early batches

First of all, the shift in the balance of vehicle characteristics towards powerful weapons at that time, good mobility, ease of transportation and improved ergonomics catches the eye. At the same time, the reservation of the tank, when compared, for example, with Soviet classmates, was a secondary item on the list.

The powerful British rifled 105-mm L7 gun, which was considered one of the best in the world before the advent of larger caliber guns, coupled with an 830-horsepower diesel engine and hydromechanical transmission, could give a tank weighing about 40 tons a great advantage in many combat situations. Still, an extremely powerful “babaha” on a moving chassis can do a lot of things.

In contrast to this, booking the Leopard could not please with impressive results. The hull of the tank in the frontal part had a maximum thickness of armor plates of 70 mm, set at an angle of 60 degrees. On the sides, the thickness of the armor varied from 35 to 45 mm. At the same time, it should be noted that these indicators did not change during mass production, so no protection corresponding to real threats was provided, except for small-caliber guns and fragments from artillery shell explosions.

The cast turrets of the tanks of the first releases in the frontal projection were protected by massive wedge-shaped gun mantlets up to 100 mm thick. The maximum thickness of the turret sides reached approximately 60 mm, and the roofs - up to 45 mm. However, in subsequent modifications, the tank turrets were equipped with additional armor, but even this could not provide reliable protection against all armor-piercing shells of the Great Patriotic War, not to mention more modern examples.


This is precisely the limiting factor, which is far from the last in importance, which can be acutely manifested when using Leopard-1 in Ukraine. Of course, one of the latest modifications of the tank in the face of the Leopard-1A5 will be delivered to Kyiv. These vehicles are equipped with thermal imaging sights and a Leopard-2 fire control system, which includes both a laser rangefinder and a ballistic computer with a set of firing conditions sensors that monitor weather conditions, the position of your own tank in space, target speed, and so on. In general, the tank can still show itself.

It is not necessary to write off his tool. Shells to him are now frantically trying to find the German authorities, begging for them from Brazil, then from Belgium. In the end, they will find it anyway, they will not go anywhere. And the nomenclature of the gun is very rich: only Belgian-designed sub-caliber shells from the early 125s show the results of armor penetration at the level of late Soviet shells for XNUMX-mm guns.

However, security issues are simply huge. Here it is interesting to give an interpretation of the concept of "main tank", which "Leopard-1" is, adopted in the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe in 1990.

“The main tank is a ground-based melee weapon that implements the principle of “I see - I shoot” under the influence of almost all fire and other weapons available to the enemy.”

The resistance to these very weapons, which the Leopard-1A5 possesses, was not fully relevant even at the time of its adoption. Now, when the development of anti-tank weapons has stepped far forward, both in terms of penetrating ability and accuracy, such meager armor cannot provide any guarantee of protection.

Leopard-1А5
Leopard-1А5

Any old ATGM or grenade launcher, not to mention more modern models, can become a real threat to a tank. And given that the appearance of a tank in the field of view usually entails consequences in the form that everything starts to fly into it, about any bravado in the style of “put together a battalion from Leopards” and trample on the Crimea in the forefront, most likely, there will be no speech. And there are suspicions that Kyiv is well aware of this.

Where to put him then?


"Leopard-1" and its modification A5 are not as specific a car as the same French "wheel" AMX-10RCR. No one will brainstorm how to integrate it into the structure of the Ukrainian troops. It's still a normal tank. And will be used accordingly.

With a high degree of probability, the Ukrainian command will form companies and, accordingly, battalions, consisting exclusively of these combat vehicles. The reasons for this are clear: the supply of spare parts and ammunition, specially trained repair units and difficulties with communication synchronization simply will not allow German Leopards to dilute formations that are armed with Soviet-style tanks - there is no logic in this.

The only question is where these "leopard units" will be deployed and how they will be used. Still, the limitations of tanks in the form of weak armor and the fundamental absence of combat information and control systems (they can become one of the main trump cards of more recent "NATO" tanks) will not make them the main strike force of the first order.

The most likely scenario, which, by the way, some Western experts are talking about, is the deployment of formations armed with Leopards-1 in less threatened areas, including, for example, the Belarusian one.

Recall that a fairly large united Russian-Belarusian group is forcing Kyiv to keep part of its troops in the north - near the borders with the Republic of Belarus. Naturally, we are talking about tank units.

In this regard, the Leopard-1 battalions look like a profitable replacement, which will free up more combat-ready tanks for use in threatened areas, and in particular in the east, where Russian and allied forces are now demonstrating effective offensive attempts.

In any case, this is just speculation. Not a single Leopard-1 has yet appeared on the territory of Ukraine, and this appearance is still far away. However, as they say, we will see.
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  1. +9
    9 February 2023 04: 55
    Indians revere the weapons of white people. How nice to hohly feel like a beloved son of white demigods.

    Out of love for him, they put their guns shooting fire into their hands so that he destroys the hated neighboring tribe.
    1. +16
      9 February 2023 07: 23
      Today I watched an excerpt from the movie bad boy and how in Britain they meet Zelensky just like in a movie about a bad boy.
      1. +2
        9 February 2023 07: 45
        1. As the respected commentators suggested earlier, Leoperdy-1 will go into battle first, maybe AMX-30 will be added. Then they will test a small amount of Leo-2. But then already massively with the Fe-16.
        2. They will pay for all third countries with raw materials for printed euros and dollars.
        3. Combat moves to a new level.
        4. We can safely assume that medium-range missiles, Abrams and aviation for various purposes will be available by the summer.
        5. Escalation of our population and even more so the leadership - do not frighten. No future - no fear.
        1. +2
          9 February 2023 08: 32
          Quote: Civil
          1. As the respected commentators suggested earlier, Leoperdy-1 will go into battle first, maybe AMX-30 will be added. Then they will test a small amount of Leo-2. But then already massively with the Fe-16.
          2. They will pay for all third countries with raw materials for printed euros and dollars.
          3. Combat moves to a new level.
          4. We can safely assume that medium-range missiles, Abrams and aviation for various purposes will be available by the summer.
          5. Escalation of our population and even more so the leadership - do not frighten. No future - no fear.

          It's hard to argue with your comment. Just add.
          Deliveries of weapons to Ukraine will continue as long as it is beneficial to the United States. The Ukrainian training ground will still see a lot of the latest weapons.
          In this story with the Leopards, another aspect is important: for the third time in the last 105 years, German crosses are in Ukraine. And they say that Estonians are slow. Ukrainians do not understand anything from the third time. Kaiser and Hitler dragged cattle, grain, black soil from Ukraine. Now Zelensky himself voluntarily delivers. Hitler forcibly took Ukrainians to Germany to work. Now they go and enjoy themselves.
          In Russia, a company of boys is addressed as: Guys.
          In Ukraine - Boys. They are taught from childhood to servility, slavery. Because of their slavish nature, in historical retrospect, the Ukrainians have not managed to create an independent state, nor to maintain the independence they had been given. Well, a bull cannot live without a yoke around his neck.
          1. +3
            10 February 2023 09: 45
            These serfs, lads, whom the minority on the outskirts bent over and reformatted the Russian majority. And, by the way, have you forgotten how Russia, after the coup, fell under the West? What is the difference, our yoke is different?
          2. 0
            17 February 2023 17: 30
            Well, a bull cannot live without a yoke around his neck.

            The bull was alone in the herd!
            And the yoke around the neck was dragged by oxen.
          3. 0
            18 February 2023 21: 25
            "Hitler forcibly took Ukrainians to Germany to work. Now they go and rejoice." The capitalists study well, Hitler also united Europe. This is the meaning of the EU, the elite of countries are being bribed, enterprises are being closed, the population is running with a squeal of joy to wash the toilets, and for those who disagree, NATO troops come, try picking it up, it will be democratic bullets like gas.
      2. +8
        9 February 2023 08: 18
        Military parade, effectiveness in battles has not been proven, but it looks beautiful. sad

        1. avg
          +4
          9 February 2023 10: 29
          Exactly! Especially the saddle, seat and mustache! good
      3. +6
        9 February 2023 08: 55
        Quote: insafufa
        Today I watched an excerpt from the movie bad boy and how in Britain they meet Zelensky just like in a movie about a bad boy.

        Everyone is greeted differently:
        1. 0
          10 February 2023 19: 28
          And Zelya probably thinks "Tear off your trunk for planes, a dystrophic elephant"
      4. +11
        9 February 2023 09: 02
        Still, the phrase "We would stand for a day and hold out at night" would have power, then it would be impossible at all ... Then it would be ... salute to Kibalchish.... But a fairy tale often differs from the cruel realities of Fate.... No one will deceive Fate and we do not know it. Just hope for the best hi
  2. +16
    9 February 2023 05: 03
    The picture is called "Waiting".
    Old, but nevertheless - TANK!
    1. +13
      9 February 2023 06: 14
      in the film "White Tiger" by K. Shakhnazarov, the tanker Naydenov said, "until I burn it, the war is over" ... apparently he did not find the "tiger", and he became a "leopard" and returns ....
    2. +20
      9 February 2023 06: 31
      Old, but nevertheless - TANK!
      Remembered

      - And another question not according to the charter, can I?
      - Can.
      — Listen, lieutenant… Have you ever seen a German tank, up close? Well, so, from ten meters, when is he rushing at you?
      “Aty-bats, there were soldiers…” 1977
      1. +4
        9 February 2023 10: 48
        — Listen, lieutenant… Have you ever seen a German tank, up close? Well, so, from ten meters, when is he rushing at you?

        And later, Sharapov seriously thought about the question of the commander ...
  3. +10
    9 February 2023 05: 06
    Leopard 1 tanks will also go to Ukraine, but hardly to capture the Crimea
    Of course, of course ... he will come to Ukraine for the LIBERATION (in the version of the current Kyiv government) of Crimea ...
    Germany cannot provide them with the proper amount of ammunition.
    Well, that means they will be looking for them all over the world, and since this gun was very common, like the tanks using it, they will be found in commercial quantities
    In contrast to this, booking the Leopard could not please with impressive results.
    Nevertheless, we will solve this issue, if we have the desire and the availability of money. Building up the VLD, additional armoring of the combined type, according to the T-62M type + installing a DZ, such work was carried out in the days of the USSR by the Kyiv Tank Repair Plant, but the sides according to the T-64BVM type 2017
    1. +11
      9 February 2023 05: 22
      Well, that means they will be looking for them all over the world, and since this gun was very common, like the tanks using it, they will be found in commercial quantities

      If they had read the material in full, they would have understood that we are not talking about ammunition at all. They find it, they're not going anywhere.

      Nevertheless, this issue, with the desire and availability of money, can be solved. Building up the VLD, additional armoring of the combined type, according to the T-62M type + installation of DZ, well, the sides according to the T-64BVM type 2017

      If there is money, a gun turret from the Yamato battleship can also be supplied. So far, there are no prerequisites that the Leopard will be armored with something. Everything is at the level of assumptions, as well as whether these tanks will be used in the Belarusian or other directions. smile
      1. +2
        9 February 2023 09: 05
        Quote: Eduard Perov
        . Everything is at the level of assumptions, as well as whether these tanks will be used in the Belarusian or other directions.

        They will "book", but this will require money and time, and there are enough production capacities in Europe.
      2. +2
        9 February 2023 09: 15
        Quote: Eduard Perov
        If there is money, a gun turret from the Yamato battleship can also be supplied.

        That would be good. Such a "modernized" tank would not only be unable to move from its place on its own, but it would have simply been "blown away" at the first shot
      3. +6
        9 February 2023 13: 45
        Leo60 can also be upgraded to the M1 Sabra level, and this is at least an impenetrable muzzle. I also note that for the bulk of tanks at the front, in most combat situations, L7 is sufficient, you yourself write above about modern shells. But tank duels have not yet been seen much, but what we often see is going to the shelling of enemy positions and a rollback. And here Leo1 can pour a lot.

        Now I can’t find a video with Leo1A5 in motion, how the loader throws shells in 3-4 seconds. But I found a video from the Leo2 simulator and the rate of fire of manual loading is also visible there. So a pair of Leo1s can fire under 30 shells per minute at reinforced positions, without waiting for a response, roll back, change position and repeat. It is also interesting whether there is an analogue of the DM11 projectile for the L7, and if there is and will be supplied, then this will make Leo1 with its SLA very dangerous.
        1. 0
          April 14 2023 09: 35
          This is speed!
          Our automatic loaders are not capable of delivering this.
          And the first Leopard has lighter shells, the loader will get tired less, which will affect speed
      4. 0
        9 February 2023 19: 43
        Quote: Eduard Perov
        ammo is not worth it at all. They find it, they're not going anywhere.

        it's not that easy.
        Probleme mit der Munitionsbeschaffung
        Brazil has the largest stockpile of munitions (bought about 250 Leopard tanks at a time on the cheap at one time), but the government of President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva refused to hand them over—as it did with Cheetah anti-aircraft missile munitions.
        ------------------------------------
        Well, they have a lot of Leo -1 tanks
        According to the Süddeutsche Zeitung, Rheinmetall and Flensburger Fahrzeugbau Gesellschaft (FFG) want to prepare dozens of Leopard 1 tanks for export to Ukraine. A Rheinmetall spokesman recently said: "We could make 88 vehicles from Leopard 1."
        a total of up to 178 German-made Leopard 1 battle tanks (Germany, Denmark, the Netherlands) can be prepared

        The rest from the swamp - hardly
        Leopard 1 in storage in Belgium (better condition than German ones)

        Rheinmetall cannot repair tanks without an order because the costs are several hundred million euros, said: I quote Papperger: "Rheinmetall will not be able to finance this without an advance payment."
        -------------------------------------------------- -----------------
        of all the German irons, it flies that the Ukrainians have nothing to fight on.
        The reporters were shown that "famous" T-72 and how they change the engine. In my opinion this (replacement) was shown many times and for many days

        - 17 degrees of frost by the way)

        Leopard 1 – zum letzten Gefecht in die Ukraine
      5. -1
        7 May 2023 07: 02
        Will be used as a means of the first shot.
        If on the mind.
        If it’s not wise, they will lead us out under our shots.
        So the training of the crews will decide everything.
        If used in rough terrain.
        If they drive in the steppe, then the risk of being covered by rocket artillery is high.
        It all depends on planning.
        So the ideal option is American planning and Polish crews.
    2. 0
      9 February 2023 19: 52
      Quote: svp67
      Nevertheless, we will solve this issue, if we have the desire and the availability of money. Increasing VLD, additional booking

      they have a ready-made solution that is just "lift on the wing"
      Leopard C1 MEXAS
      Leopard C2 MEXAS-

      True, only 66 were made, they spat on the rest.
      139 million Canadian dollars = 114 Canadian Leopard C2
      IBD Deisenroth Engineering is alive and well.
      MEXAS-M was shipped quite recently.
  4. The comment was deleted.
    1. +9
      9 February 2023 06: 40
      Quote: Skif Skif
      Which of the sons of ministers and oligarchs are fighting in the Donbass? Which of the governors' daughters became a nurse?

      The son of the Deputy Prime Minister of the Jewish Autonomous Region became the Hero of Russia for the destruction of several dozen soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
      The son of Deputy Prime Minister of the Jewish Autonomous Region (JAO) Maria Kostyuk Andrey Kovtun posthumously became a Hero of Russia for participating in a special military operation (SVO). It is reported by RIA Novosti with reference to the press service of the regional government.
      As the agency was informed in the Russian region, in the course of participating in the SVO, Kovtun personally destroyed several dozen soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU), when he covered a Russian reconnaissance group with an infantry fighting vehicle. During the battle, Kovtun received shrapnel wounds and died.
      https://lenta.ru/news/2023/02/02/kovtun/
      And when are you going?
      1. +1
        9 February 2023 09: 30
        How many minusers, but no one even tries to answer.
        1. +3
          9 February 2023 19: 26
          How many officials do we have? And all, as one, breastfeed for patriotism. And where are their children, successful managers? Just one example, well, if you dig, two or three more will be typed. Such respect. Where are the rest? ... I have a neighbor, 32 years old, with 2 (two, 3 and 5 years old) children called. Yes, a simple manager, not a hard worker. I did not raise millions, but more or less, I was provided. But he does not have a "golden parachute" and there is no father minister, so that if anything, someone would raise his children. This is how they fight
          1. -3
            10 February 2023 10: 30
            Quote: Doc1272
            How many officials do we have? And all, as one, breastfeed for patriotism. Where are their children
            Do you know all their children?
    2. +2
      9 February 2023 09: 06
      Quote: Skif Skif
      Which of the sons of ministers and oligarchs are fighting in the Donbass? Which of the governors' daughters became a nurse? Tell

      Do not repeat yourself, such questions appear on the site every other day.
      1. 0
        9 February 2023 10: 25
        Quote: tihonmarine
        Quote: Skif Skif
        Which of the sons of ministers and oligarchs are fighting in the Donbass? Which of the governors' daughters became a nurse? Tell

        Do not repeat yourself, such questions appear on the site every other day.

        This is a rhetorical question. And there is no answer to it, especially from the Russian part of the Forbes list.
    3. +1
      9 February 2023 15: 42
      Quote: Skif Skif
      Which of the sons of ministers and oligarchs are fighting in the Donbass? Which of the governors' daughters became a nurse? Tell

      The son of the head of the Crimea Aksyonov at the front. And where is yours?
      1. +2
        9 February 2023 18: 59
        Quote: 30 vis
        And where is yours?

        I guess on the couch.
    4. +3
      9 February 2023 17: 13
      I think this is a rhetorical question!
  5. -8
    9 February 2023 05: 34
    they were promised 100 tanks, against an armada of tanks. Russian tanks have the same projectile.
    In our tanks, the muzzle automatically turns to the side where they started aiming at you.
    The whole of Ukraine is mined, the tanks also need to be repaired
    It is one thing to teach, another thing is a real battle, with the use of all types of weapons.
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Корнет_(ПТРК)
    You can launch two at once, armor penetration to the place of armor.
  6. +8
    9 February 2023 05: 35
    I'm not a tanker. But, looking at the photo of these tanks, I remember the famous cemetery of Soviet tanks in Kharkov. And here a reasonable question arises, why is Kharkov scrap metal worse than German? And the answer appears, so that after the supply of German junk, someone will order and pay for new cars, and this is millions of dollars. Now, at the expense of the lives of Ukrainians, the rotten West is nailing sickly babosy. On the battlefield, this technique will solve little, and it will not be possible to fully service it. It is surprising that ordinary Ukrainians will not understand that this government needs them only to work out the transit of millions...
    1. 0
      9 February 2023 09: 13
      Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
      Now, at the expense of the lives of Ukrainians, the rotten West is nailing sickly babosy.

      Again, everything is according to the old saying - "To whom is the war, and to whom are the babos in the bank!"
    2. +10
      9 February 2023 14: 01
      In fact, it’s strange to call Leo1A5 junk, whose SLA will probably be better than the Belarusian one, which is on the T-90, and the BC for the L7 is very powerful. The resource of the suspension and motor allows you to put a couple of tons of additional armor and DZ on top and voila. If you are talking about T-64s, then their APU has probably put everything into operation that they could find. What does a tank graveyard have to do with it? Tanks will be handed over to Ukraine on the move, not from the cemetery.
  7. +13
    9 February 2023 05: 38
    What difference does it make, old or not, if they are able to solve problems - the defeat of manpower, equipment, and so on, before they themselves are destroyed? Either way, it's a murder weapon.
  8. -8
    9 February 2023 05: 41
    The issue of the transfer of tanks is more of a propaganda nature and serves solely to maintain the spirit of the Ukrainian army and sow panic in the Russian sofa-blogger troops. After the announcement of the transfer of another wunderwaffe through all Ukrainian channels, military experts like Zhdanov begin to talk about how this miracle weapon will drive the Russians to the border, then, of course, the overthrow of Putin and the collapse of the Russian Federation. With a wave of the baton of cisco conductors, our all-weeders begin to howl about betrayal, Abramovich, spineless Putin, and so on. All for one constant
    scenario. I think after the tanks there will be another hysteria about long-range missiles or fighters)
    1. +2
      9 February 2023 13: 52
      I hope this text was written while sitting in a trench?
      1. +3
        9 February 2023 19: 11
        No. In a dive bomber, just in time for a dive
  9. 0
    9 February 2023 05: 42
    The picture is called "Waiting".
    You could not wait for this picture.
    Not a single Leopard-1 has yet appeared on the territory of Ukraine, and this appearance is still far away.
    .. As it appeared, already .. the first tank arrived, though from Canada, there was such news .. Joy, there was ..
    1. +1
      9 February 2023 06: 41
      Quote: parusnik
      the first tank arrived, though from Canada

      True for some reason to Poland.
      1. 0
        9 February 2023 19: 14

        True for some reason to Poland.
        and not leopard 1 but leopard 2
  10. +5
    9 February 2023 05: 58
    I remember about bayraktars and javelins there was the same hype!
  11. 0
    9 February 2023 06: 56
    They burn like matches from the BMP-2M cannon) in the War Thunder game) and usually do not survive more than one hit
  12. 0
    9 February 2023 07: 47
    It is easier to dispose of them in Ukraine, because in Germany, with expensive gas, metallurgy is dying, where should this scrap metal go? And so they shamanized to Ukraine, where they will break or be destroyed. It remains to find suicide bombers in the crews.
  13. +2
    9 February 2023 08: 24
    Tanks, profits, planes will also arrive, but they also give up drop by drop .. Until everything is collected together .. I would not like it to be collected ..
  14. +14
    9 February 2023 08: 28
    Recently, the question “How will equipment from Europe get to the front line?” has not been discussed at all. the road. Maybe it’s enough for an agreement?
    1. 0
      9 February 2023 19: 15
      Look at the map of railways and roads of western Ukraine and don't bring blizzards
    2. 0
      9 February 2023 23: 24
      This is not possible with respected Western partners. You still haven’t understood: to whom is the war, and to whom is the mother dear .. Well, you can add: if the elite’s money is stored in another country, then this is already a foreign elite ...
    3. 0
      18 February 2023 12: 30
      I won't argue. but as far as I remember, our gauge is different from the western one. It is necessary to kick these centers and the overload will go along the roads, which is more expensive and will become visible to everyone (people, satellites, etc., etc.), and tama (if there is a will) can be set to zero.
  15. +3
    9 February 2023 08: 38
    Nobody argues that these tanks are shit on a stick. But the trouble is that they will kill ours not like shit, but for real
  16. +2
    9 February 2023 08: 54
    Preparation will take several months, and they are needed on the edge by May.
    1. +2
      9 February 2023 10: 10
      For the second wave, mixed with the Abramichs, they will go!
    2. -1
      April 8 2023 18: 28
      Ukrainians can wait until June. 22nd. They are in no hurry. Our cutting blow from Artemovsk to Kyiv does not threaten them yet - the western part of the Artemovsk railway station has not yet been taken.
  17. +3
    9 February 2023 09: 23
    Leo1 is a very serious beast, with the necessary training of the crew, this is very, very much and will create significant problems ...
    We have been notified about them (problems) - from us - we need solutions to this problem: in the form of a UAV, as well as with a functional. reconnaissance, and shock - first of all, you need "eyes" to see, without them - to fight even with Leo1 - it will be very problematic!
    don't forget that Leo2 will also be brought...
    1. +3
      9 February 2023 09: 59
      And what is serious about Leo 1?
      62m surpasses him in everything. The T-72 is beyond his teeth, he can simply destroy it with a ram, as in 41 KV the German pz2 and pz3 crushed when the shells ran out.
      Any anti-tank weapons take them, even the old RPG-18 fly and spg-9 spear ...
      The French wheeled amx-10 is much more dangerous due to its greater mobility and many times more modern optics.
      1. +2
        9 February 2023 10: 09
        for L7 there are a bunch of modern BOPS, I don’t think the SLA on LEO is worse than T72 ... Night optics are better, communication is better .....
      2. +2
        9 February 2023 10: 10
        Quote: Georgy Sviridov_2
        62m surpasses him in everything.

        No, not in everything. Leopard-1A5, in terms of sighting systems and situational awareness of the commander, is a cut above, as well as in terms of the accuracy of his guns
        Quote: Georgy Sviridov_2
        T-72 is beyond his teeth

        Who told you, even if they use old shells from the 60s ... 70s, they are capable of hitting the T-72 on the side, and the new ones can cause significant damage to the forehead
        Quote: Georgy Sviridov_2
        The French wheeled amx-10 is much more dangerous due to its greater mobility and many times more modern optics.

        Leopard-1A5 is largely unified with Leopard-2 in this
      3. 0
        18 February 2023 12: 33
        Any means of destruction is already serious. Even pneumatics ... easy to kill, harder to survive
  18. +5
    9 February 2023 09: 46
    I think in positional and defensive battles, he will normally go in. And in attacks, too, can be quite useful! Each of them, before being sent to scrap, can take with them more than one life of our fighters! am
    Question: why is this possible? As for me, we give a very energetic opponent the opportunity to think about winning! They spare neither strength nor means for victory, the enemy throws everything possible on the altar of victory and achieves parity with our efforts. And six months ago, the Armed Forces of Ukraine were even able to get an advantage! belay
    Why do we think that victory will be ours? Because we are stronger due to numbers, we have more people, we have more weapons and we have excellent military-technical equipment, but we use our advantages in a dosed manner, without creating an overwhelming superiority on the enemy!
    We need to create not parity in forces, but an advantage, it is not necessary to arrange breakthroughs on a broad front to a strategic depth if we doubt success. But you need to create an army, looking at which the enemy will understand the futility of the struggle! He must understand that if we have gone somewhere, then he will not be able to muster the forces capable of knocking us out of there! You can fight like we are fighting, if we are not capable of more, but the enemy must see that behind the first line there are reserves that he simply cannot cope with!
    Today, as Strelkov says: the enemy is changing the land for a while, to prepare a counteroffensive! The enemy AGAIN expects to gain local superiority! sad
  19. 0
    9 February 2023 09: 52
    Leopard 1 is worse than t62m in everything.
    The gun is weaker, the armor is very weak, generally at the level of the T-55, if not worse, the optics are weak, since the tanks were taken out of service a long time ago and no one modernized them ... If the S-60 gun is given armor-piercing shells, they will be quite able to destroy them , if not on the forehead, then on the side for sure ...
    In principle, he cannot penetrate 72 in the forehead ... Yes, and it’s not very immediately on board ... From heading angles, even from a small distance, he may not be able to take ...
    In general, this is the same French amx-10, only a caterpillar base and old sights ...
    1. +2
      9 February 2023 10: 07
      L7 plus minus = 115mm gun T62. But, new shells for it are still being developed. There are also Jewish ATGMs for 105mm ...... There is a modern SLA on modernized vehicles. Optics is initially better, communication ... But on the T62 there is no serial model in the form of some kind of mass model.
      1. +1
        9 February 2023 10: 24
        Suo may be modern, but not in German, which stood in the hangar for 30 years. In those countries where leo1 are in service, there may be modern upgrades.
        1. +2
          9 February 2023 10: 44
          So the T72 SLA is different .... from the level of T62 to the level of T90
  20. +1
    9 February 2023 10: 04
    The colonel told us at the military commissar that 100mm MT12 BOPS Leo1 and M60 pierces from 1-2km, and Leo2 already pierces up to 1km
  21. +6
    9 February 2023 10: 07
    Or you could just write - they will be used as mobile firing points, since the gun is still relevant now for work and for highly armored targets, unlike the T-62 ... not to mention the T-54.
    Tank defense and second line.
    1. +1
      9 February 2023 10: 22
      The t-62 cannon is better in everything than 105, it was developed just in response to it, so even 62m have better optics ... The armor of 62m is even better.
  22. +3
    9 February 2023 10: 11
    I wonder why the USA did not start supplying the M60 from storage. Like Leo1, there are a lot of them and they already need to be replaced in storage with M1A2 and Leo2. There are upgrade kits for both Leo1 and M60, and they are not bad at all. There is even an Israeli ATGM through the barrel. And DZ has long been worked out for them.
  23. 0
    9 February 2023 10: 47
    "in the east, where Russian and allied troops are now demonstrating effective offensive attempts."
    It sounds promising
  24. +6
    9 February 2023 10: 49
    Tired of the constant mention that, they say, there are no 105mm rounds for the L7 in the warehouses. Yes, this gun sticks out of a damn pile of cars. And where the BBT park is, there are ammunition depots. For example, Africa and South America. By the way, where did the American M60s go, which are scattered all over Egypt and Turkey? Do they only shoot from a loose barrel?
  25. +1
    9 February 2023 11: 16
    Somewhere I saw information that two Leopard 1s are already in Odessa
  26. +6
    9 February 2023 11: 39
    Upgrading them according to the T55 / 62M / AM type is not so much mind. Moreover, there is no need to do anything with weapons and SLAs - and so it will do.
    Now tanks are used there by both sides much more often from closed positions than according to the "definition of MBT". For such an application, a rifled gun is very good, even 105 mm. But booking from the muzzle is already up to the light bulb.
  27. +4
    9 February 2023 13: 01
    The Germans figured that it was pointless to store this rubbish, it was impossible to sell it, and it was expensive to dispose of it. Apparently, it's cheaper to send them for "disposal" in Ukraine
  28. +6
    9 February 2023 13: 44
    Actually, this is a gun on a tracked chassis.
    So it can kill and destroy. Find them how to use them.
    And yet, there was an article about the T-62. Many laughed, but in vain. These tanks are peers.
  29. +1
    9 February 2023 13: 46
    Quote: Dart2027
    How many minusers, but no one even tries to answer.

    so you brought an isolated case of some shabby bureaucrat, about which no one had ever heard before, and you want to get a lot of pluses? Do you think that this is enough?
    Apparently, there are those for whom this isolated case is generally unconvincing, but rather an exception to the rule.
  30. +3
    9 February 2023 13: 50
    With Leo 1 there will already be two types of tanks with a 105mm cannon. So gradually this caliber will become the main one.
    1. 0
      10 February 2023 00: 27
      French 105 is not interchangeable with English 105. So it's more of a hassle. I think that if there had not been this African adventure in Mali, the French would have been sitting quietly. And so Leclerc will go. Will definitely go
  31. +1
    9 February 2023 13: 59
    Quote: svp67
    Nevertheless, we will solve this issue, if we have the desire and the availability of money. Building up the VLD, additional armoring of the combined type, according to the T-62M type + installing a DZ, such work was carried out in the days of the USSR by the Kyiv Tank Repair Plant, but the sides according to the T-64BVM type 2017


    Who has the desire and money? Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Put - as is. Modernization takes time, and the successes of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are needed quickly (both by Zelensky and his curators).
  32. -1
    9 February 2023 14: 02
    Quote: Ulan.1812
    Actually, this is a gun on a tracked chassis.
    So it can kill and destroy. Find them how to use them.


    The line for the "Shermans", then for the "Reno" of the times of WWI. Also guns on the chassis. laughing
    Perhaps they will be able to use, but not for long. 20-30 minutes in a combat situation.
    By the way, how are the tanks that Poland and Slovakia supplied fighting there? Is there still on the go or is everything in the trash? tongue
    1. -2
      9 February 2023 17: 28
      Quote: Illanatol
      Quote: Ulan.1812
      Actually, this is a gun on a tracked chassis.
      So it can kill and destroy. Find them how to use them.


      The line for the "Shermans", then for the "Reno" of the times of WWI. Also guns on the chassis. laughing
      Perhaps they will be able to use, but not for long. 20-30 minutes in a combat situation.
      By the way, how are the tanks that Poland and Slovakia supplied fighting there? Is there still on the go or is everything in the trash? tongue

      Very funny. Set off, take a cookie from Nuland.
  33. +2
    9 February 2023 14: 58
    1. Any weakly armored tank can be placed in the second/third line: leo2 + bradleys with active armor go in front, leo1 behind them and shoot at everything that is suspicious. Without spending trunks and BC of the first line.
    2. For counterattacks and control of territories / actions from ambushes - also not bad: the first gave with funas and removed the DZ, the second with a cumulative or crowbar. In terms of armored personnel carriers / infantry fighting vehicles, the tank is generally a terrible force, even with 105 mm.
    So they have enough work to do. Plus, in addition to its damage, each leo1 will require attention and a projectile / lancet / RPG.
    1. -1
      9 February 2023 17: 25
      Quote: dfk-80
      1. Any weakly armored tank can be placed in the second/third line: leo2 + bradleys with active armor go in front, leo1 behind them and shoot at everything that is suspicious. Without spending trunks and BC of the first line.
      2. For counterattacks and control of territories / actions from ambushes - also not bad: the first gave with funas and removed the DZ, the second with a cumulative or crowbar. In terms of armored personnel carriers / infantry fighting vehicles, the tank is generally a terrible force, even with 105 mm.
      So they have enough work to do. Plus, in addition to its damage, each leo1 will require attention and a projectile / lancet / RPG.

      Here I am about it. Find out how to use it.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  34. +3
    9 February 2023 15: 07
    "They are frightening with plates ..." Let them already be taken, and then we will see.
  35. -2
    9 February 2023 15: 40
    Leopards will not go to the Crimea. The tigers could easily go to the Crimea. Leopards will not be able to do this, they do not know the way. Now, if together with the tigers, they know the way, but without the tigers they do not know.
  36. 0
    9 February 2023 18: 28
    In the SVO, tanks are used as well-protected self-propelled artillery and Leopard-1 is quite suitable for this, like the Soviet T-62 and T-55.
  37. +1
    9 February 2023 18: 56
    I read the comments. The main thing: yes, this Leopard is nonsense to us and the gun is not the same and the armor is thin. However, the militias from the 100mm rapier and without armor did a lot of things, and in Leo 105mm and behind the armor. And tank duels are quite rare. And the tank is used more: it jumped out, worked and hid. So the Leopard is another headache for us, especially for ATGM calculations.
  38. 0
    10 February 2023 00: 22
    It seems that the Americans had a shaft of these 105 mm shells. The first abrams were with this gun. And, previous tanks too. So there won't be any problems. And you will learn how to use it quickly. In interaction with drones, ATGM calculations will quickly lose their relevance.
  39. -1
    10 February 2023 03: 54
    I really don’t know, about 105mm armor penetration on Leo’s carved guns, Someone is lying. A rifled barrel against a smoothbore is a priori a minus to the speed of a bops projectile, plus a caliber of 105 versus 125. from the category of fairy tales. Tank of the 60s, level T 55, T 62.
  40. 0
    10 February 2023 09: 58
    Quote: karabas-barabas
    Leo60 can also be upgraded to the M1 Sabra level, and this is at least an impenetrable muzzle.


    The forehead is only 70 mm - how do you make an "impenetrable muzzle" out of it? One DZ is indispensable here ... There is still a lot of armor to add. So many!

    Quote: karabas-barabas
    So a pair of Leo1 can fire under 30 shells per minute


    The loader will not throw 15 shells per minute without loss of speed. If for 1-2 shells it turns out to meet in 3-4 seconds, then it won’t work out for 15.
  41. 0
    10 February 2023 10: 39
    If we consider the Leopard-1 not as an MBT, but as a tank destroyer, then we get a very excellent car with a good FCS. For the same T-62, none of the ongoing upgrades will help to become a modern MBT. He plays his role as a support machine. So Leo is no worse.
  42. -1
    10 February 2023 13: 38
    Quote: Skif Skif
    Prompt

    The minister's daughter with her boyfriend showed up at a party in the Emirates.

    That's not the point.
    The main thing is not what Leo 1 is, but how will our authorities respond to countries that make weapons that kill our guys?

    Will they stop the supply of hydrocarbons, seize the assets of Western companies in Russia, "close the sky" over Ukraine, under the threat of shooting down any aircraft?
    Will the ports of Ukraine be blocked and the shameful grain deal terminated, according to which the grain of American agricultural holdings quietly left Ukraine?
  43. 0
    10 February 2023 13: 47
    Quote: dfk-80
    1. Any weakly armored tank can be placed in the second/third line: leo2 + bradleys with active armor go in front, leo1 behind them and shoot at everything that is suspicious. Without spending trunks and BC of the first line.
    2. For counterattacks and control of territories / actions from ambushes - also not bad: the first gave with funas and removed the DZ, the second with a cumulative or crowbar. In terms of armored personnel carriers / infantry fighting vehicles, the tank is generally a terrible force, even with 105 mm.
    So they have enough work to do. Plus, in addition to its damage, each leo1 will require attention and a projectile / lancet / RPG.


    1. The second, third line can also be covered, like the first, with artillery or MLRS. The combat range of even old guns and MLRS (even TOS) is greater than that of tank guns.
    2. Uh-huh, if the enemy will count the raven. And if not? And hit with an ATGM, for example? This is not a computer game where you can easily beat stupid bots.
  44. 0
    10 February 2023 19: 32
    Well, our Armata is certainly newer, though it lags behind in quantity
  45. 0
    11 February 2023 12: 06
    Quote: Georgy Sviridov_2
    And what is serious about Leo 1?
    62m surpasses him in everything. The T-72 is beyond his teeth, he can simply destroy it with a ram, as in 41 KV the German pz2 and pz3 crushed when the shells ran out.
    Any anti-tank weapons take them, even the old RPG-18 fly and spg-9 spear ...
    The French wheeled amx-10 is much more dangerous due to its greater mobility and many times more modern optics.

    In order for the KV to crush someone, he first had to catch up with him) What makes you think that the L-7 with modern BOPS will not penetrate the T-72? During the Doomsday War, the Israelis burned the Syrian T-62s from these guns in batches, and the shells since that time have decently grown in armor penetration, by the way, there is an article about this, but you probably didn’t read it
  46. 0
    18 February 2023 12: 45
    Read all comments. All opinions are interesting and have the right to discussion. But ... I'm sorry, but how many of those who write here were on a thread, or at least a river? Who was running tanks? Who learned to work with the boundary? And even the question of what to take with you on the way out? I am not the authority in the latest edition. Guys ... any means of destruction is already serious. What difference does it make what will kill .. a bullet, a shell or a fragment? Wait, I'm collecting a parcel for my son .... He's there. In case of a negative situation, I will go myself, I will work (although I have become old) But there is no way out. Or or. Good luck and health to all of you.
  47. 0
    April 14 2023 09: 38
    A worthy opponent of the T-34-85, and even the T-55.