The bitter trap of "honey city"

51
The bitter trap of "honey city"

Passion for renaming


Passions for renaming streets in Melitopol stirred up the information field, collected their modest share of attention and again gave way to the heat of passions of the blazing civil war in the south-west of the Russian land.

All this was not so long ago in our memory.



Rosa Luxembourg again clashed with Yaroslav the Wise in a dispute over the street. The square cannot decide how to write on the envelopes - the Cathedral or the Revolution? Time does not stand still.

The names of the heroes and events of today are already approaching the names of the past era.
And they, too, quite deservedly, need to be minted not only in our memory, but also in bronze, and in toponyms on the liberated land of Russia.

Memory is a key word around which it is necessary to build a discussion, and as a result, make one or another decision.

Everything that is named after the name of someone or something can be divided into ... Before 1917. After 1917. And conditionally neutral.

Our opinions are divided in approximately the same way, according to belonging to a generation and beliefs.

I will immediately express my point of view - it was not possible to agree on this issue before and it will not be possible right away now. Always one of the opinions crushed opponents, not really caring about his feelings. Even the not always winning opinion was the opinion of the majority of the inhabitants. Rather, it is the opinion of the administrative resources and the political situation at this time and in this place. Especially when the decision of the issue was entrusted to people more radical than smart.

But we are not...

At least we know that we must try to smooth out all the sharp corners in this matter.
I'll try to think out loud.

Scramble for toponyms


Before arranging a fight for toponyms in city administrations and social networks, one should always remember that this capacious designation includes not only streets and squares. We must remember the good traditions, when the names of worthy people were called schools, squares, enterprises.

Sometimes a street with shabby houses and holes in the road should not be given the name of the hero who lived on it, at least until it is brought into a decent form.
In Odessa, I was always ashamed of Chapaeva, even if it was a lane. Someone close to the hero who gave his life in this civil war in Ukraine, would like such a memory in the mud?


It is better to leave the renaming in the plans, before putting things in order at the object itself.

Start with loved ones


Another important question, more precisely, it is the most important one. If we are talking about naming the hero of today, then we must start with the relatives of this person. Do they need something? Will they be able to go through life and proudly bear the name of a loved one?

In one of the regional centers of the Odessa region, one of the central streets has been named after my deceased Grandfather and his brothers for half a century. But at the same time, his widow (my grandmother) actually lived in poverty, raising two children herself in the post-war years. I am not offended by the Soviet government, which was defended by generations of ancestors. And to the fact that decision-making on the ground, even in those years, was not always run by decent and smart people.

Therefore, let the street remain for the time being Apricot or Cherry, but the hero's children will receive a decent education. The family will have living conditions, at least not worse than the conventional average level.

Names should be appropriate and commensurate with the place in our storiesthat occupy certain individuals or events. I could never understand what was wrong with the city authorities back in Soviet times, Dmitry Donskoy and Alexander Nevsky, if the streets of the private sector in the then urban outback were named after them. I am sure that such absurdities can be found in any city.

At the same time, I was happy for Bogdan Mikhailovich Khmelnitsky, who got a straight, wide street in the center.

And again, I could not understand why, even in Soviet times, our Taras Shevchenko, who had never been to Odessa, did not mention my city in his works, but covered it with his name in the longest avenue, a huge central park and a cyclopean, frightening idol at the entrance to the park. And in the port there was a chic passenger liner named after Taras. Palaces of culture, libraries and so on - it goes without saying. How I love to hear whining about the oppression of everything Ukrainian in the Soviet Union...

Lack of wisdom


I started talking about memory. And this is not only a nameplate that the street bears today. This is what our parents and grandmothers called her. These are memorial plaques with the names of those who deserve it, or with a mention of the events that took place within these limits.

A commemorative plaque with a small bas-relief and brief information is much more informative than a plate with a house number and a mangled name, such as Gen. Petrov (General Petrov). People who live on this street should perceive its name not as historical abracadabra, but clearly understand what it is and where it comes from. But this is already the field of activity of local media and local historians.

It doesn't matter to me how my official address will be written on the envelope, I want to see the connection of times and generations.

In the photograph, only Odessa residents of one yard in the entire million-strong city have come close to the correct decision of how it should look. Let the main name that we have chosen today be written in larger letters.

In addition to the most odious names, the period of the fascist and Bandera occupations, all the rest should receive a legal right to a name in the tablets of history. In the old names - this is also us. These are mistakes, sincere beliefs of our ancestors - which we should not be ashamed of.

This question is not for tomorrow, but for yesterday.

Many of those who forge our Victory in the rear and at the front often have too different views on our past. And the future is also presented differently. Possible conflicts and grievances on this basis must be pre-empted now.

Unlike all other pressing issues that need to be addressed, the topics of historical heritage and respect for our memory do not require millions of budget money from us, but only wisdom.
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  1. +1
    7 February 2023 05: 01
    The article is relevant, but now it will begin
    1. +7
      7 February 2023 05: 20
      St. Petersburg, Leningrad region Orders of Lenin and the October Revolution.
      An interesting combination...
      1. +13
        7 February 2023 08: 20
        An interesting combination...
        Something similar in our city. They didn’t change the names, just on the signs in the center you can read something like: “Working street. Until 1917, Dvoryanskaya.” Neither yours, as they say, nor ours. not a damn poker. So you always want to say the sacramental: "you either take off the cross, or put on your underpants"
        1. Aag
          +5
          7 February 2023 09: 00
          Quote: Aleksey7777777
          An interesting combination...
          Something similar in our city. They didn’t change the names, just on the signs in the center you can read something like: “Working street. Until 1917, Dvoryanskaya.” Neither yours, as they say, nor ours. not a damn poker. So you always want to say the sacramental: "you either take off the cross, or put on your underpants"

          Capital of Eastern Siberia?
          1. Aag
            +2
            7 February 2023 17: 21
            Quote: AAG
            Quote: Aleksey7777777
            An interesting combination...
            Something similar in our city. They didn’t change the names, just on the signs in the center you can read something like: “Working street. Until 1917, Dvoryanskaya.” Neither yours, as they say, nor ours. not a damn poker. So you always want to say the sacramental: "you either take off the cross, or put on your underpants"

            Capital of Eastern Siberia?

            It seems that the Irkutsk fellow countrymen (or, as a self-ironic self-name, the Irkuts have given up!
            hi
        2. +9
          7 February 2023 09: 55
          Alushta, there was a Working Corner, now Professor's, Simferopol, why change the name of Schmidt's to Potemkinskaya, why didn't capt2 Schmidt please? By the way, in the time of Potemkin there was a dump
          1. +2
            9 February 2023 00: 42
            And why did Potemkinskaya not please? Potemkinskaya street was named in 1904 at the time of its formation. Schmidt was never cap2, by the way.
            Professor's Corner is also a historical name; since the 19th century there have been professorial dachas there.
            The question arises - why was the Potemkinskaya replaced by Schmidt, and the Professor's Corner - by the Worker?
        3. +3
          7 February 2023 18: 26
          In the absence of a better solution, such a decision is quite reasonable.
      2. +9
        7 February 2023 09: 19
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        St. Petersburg, Leningrad region Orders of Lenin and the October Revolution.
        An interesting combination...

        On the one hand, it seems like an oxymoron, but on the other hand, a fairly accurate and truthful reflection of our history request
      3. +1
        7 February 2023 18: 23
        Like yes.
        It would be much worse if either Peter Alekseevich or Vladimir Ilyich were deleted from the toponyms of the region.
    2. -1
      7 February 2023 07: 28
      The article is relevant, but now it will begin
      Ottozh! Already...
    3. +7
      7 February 2023 16: 45
      Let it begin in the form of a discussion here and now, than later it will result in a confrontation already between us.
      As a rule, the authorities only sometimes pass through the streets where we live, and as a result, for the quiet, the severity of the issue is roughly comparable to the choice of a name for an asteroid.
  2. -3
    7 February 2023 06: 58
    It is better to leave the renaming in the plans, before putting things in order at the object itself.
    I do not argue the streets should look like they should have looked in the architectural plan of the city. And the streets, avenues with the names of Ukrainian nationalists and fascist accomplices should also be left until "better times" or should they simply be written "not in large letters"?
    Possible conflicts and grievances on this basis must be pre-empted now
    But for this it is necessary to submit new street names for discussion by the inhabitants of the city (village), and not rename them by the will of the city mayor's office. Remember how it was with Airports - people were offered several names and the winner was determined by voting.
    1. +5
      7 February 2023 16: 56
      And the streets, avenues with the names of Ukrainian nationalists and accomplices of the Nazis, too

      I wrote an article about it. These names will be preserved only in historical archives.
      In our memory they have no place even in "small letters"
      bring to the attention of the inhabitants
      - To be honest, I do not have any confidence in the administration. Even those who will occupy official positions in the liberated territories will also be different people ...
      To "discuss" it is certainly a fascinating process, but for the results of the calculation, their veracity.
      I won't give you a broken penny.
      If memory serves, they figured out the "Name of Russia" and Iosif Vissarionovich was in the lead by a wide margin. And then at the finish line, he was overtaken by historical figures more suitable for power.
      Get out with Volgograd, they can’t decide in any way.
  3. VLR
    +10
    7 February 2023 07: 17
    This is a problem not only of the "new territories", but of the whole of Russia. "Decommunization" terribly hit her, and not only Yeltsin's, but also Putin's. Most recently, without asking anyone, the authorities of Kaluga renamed the station Kaluga-2 into ... Sergiev Skete! Which was never there - he was 15 km away before the revolution. This caused a wave of indignation among the people, but the authorities pretended not to notice anything. Now they want to rename Stepan Razin Street. In little Tarusa, the liberals, who had broken through to power recently, almost renamed almost all the streets altogether, but the people did not allow them. And there are thousands and tens of thousands of such examples - in all regions and cities. And the question arises about the hypocrisy of the Russian government, which condemns the Ukrainian Bandera, but indulges the homegrown Vlasovites. The brightest and most outrageous examples are the traitor Sakharov Avenue in Moscow and the monuments to Judas Solzhenitsyn throughout Russia.
    1. +3
      7 February 2023 17: 09
      We do not have a separate Russia or Ukraine.
      There is artificially divided as a result of betrayal - a single country.
      On the southern borders of which a civil war has been going on for almost a decade.
      With the support of the West, the insolent Galician nationalist-separatists seized power and are trying to finally resolve the issue of seizing the South Russian lands.
      Therefore, situations with attempts to erase national memory will be very similar, in Russian Kaluga, in Little Russian Konotop
  4. +4
    7 February 2023 07: 58
    Saratov, for example, is all in "Stolypin", streets, alleys, avenues .. From one extreme to another .. It would seem .. but no ... In my opinion, if you are to rename, return the pre-revolutionary names, the old part of the cities, in the new areas, leave those that received names in the Soviet era.
    1. -1
      7 February 2023 08: 08
      Has Engels already been renamed Pokrovskaya Sloboda?)))
      1. 0
        7 February 2023 09: 49
        Has Engels already been renamed Pokrovskaya Sloboda?)))
        Hands have not reached yet .. As F. Engels is recognized as a foreign agent, I think they will rename laughing
    2. +2
      7 February 2023 17: 31
      Absolutely.
      Any settlement is gradually growing.
      And it would seem that in new buildings there should not be a heat of passion with names.
      But no ... Everything is in stock - from faceless to idiotic.
      I assume that these issues are resolved on a static basis.
      Like the city loot was divided into sessions, but now let's quickly come up with or replace the names of the streets.
      In Saratov, remind the liberals that the name of Stolypin, even though the pillars are called ...
      The grave of Peter Arkadyevich in Kyiv.
      The most convenient place for Bandera covens, I'll tell you ...
      So, it is necessary to release the mother of Russian cities.
      Ekaterina and her comrades, installed under Yushchenko, were demolished in Odessa ...
      Among them, De Volan stood beside the Empress.
      Russian general engineer. The author of the plan of Odessa on the streets of which, even after 200 years, is not crowded.
      And a couple of weeks later, UNESCO, without blinking an eye, took under its protection the city plan developed by De Volan. A new page in the history of European hypocrisy negative
      1. +4
        7 February 2023 19: 36
        Quote: Red Biker

        Ekaterina and her comrades, installed under Yushchenko, were demolished in Odessa ...

        Not installed, but returned to its place. that thus saved the monument from destruction (and maybe he will be right :)).
        Well, then - that's right, you need to be more careful with renaming, otherwise you never know ... There is Lazarev, and there with historical names ... it's difficult :)
        1. 0
          9 February 2023 04: 12
          When the monument to the Potemkinites was removed, for how do you write restoration to the place of Catherine.
          As a communist, I was completely unimpressed.
          By the way, the original of the monument, its upper part is a half-bust.
          It has always been kept in the courtyard of the local history museum. The originals of the Companions stood there, safe and sound.
          So... Returning to the Potemkins. They were moved carefully.
          In a small square near the port. And they fit in very organically. Moreover, there is a bust of Vakulenchuk nearby.
          Ekaterina was staged, as I already wrote - by the anti-Soviet Hurwitz with his sidekick Tarpan.
          I assume that the project was financed by Russia, because these two did nothing for personal gain.
          And from the state budget, Yushchenko would not have given them the first maydaun
          Regarding Trukhanov, do not build illusions - "we will be judged by the Mordor tribunal" as in the song.
  5. +7
    7 February 2023 08: 17
    In general, I am against naming streets in honor of someone or something, squares, parks, squares - yes, but streets - against. Let it be better like Antonov's.
    1. +3
      7 February 2023 17: 35
      Probably I agree, as I wrote - the street should correspond to its name.
      Zhlya streets from Antonov's songs, there is also a place. Quiet, rural streets. No need to give them big names.
      And our life consists not only of botany or geography.
      It also has a History that must be remembered, respected as it is and learn from it.
  6. The comment was deleted.
    1. +4
      7 February 2023 12: 12
      Who, as an empress, did not become famous for anything.

      Whether it's Yakov Moiseevich Sverdlov, guardian of the Russian Land. He became famous so famous. The Russian people must keep this name holy, obviously.
    2. +3
      7 February 2023 17: 46
      As a communist, it will be difficult to reproach me for disrespect for the memory of Yakov Mikhailovich.
      But, Catherine, as it were, also, in addition to what you described, at least did not prevent her associates from strengthening the state, which the Bolsheviks decisively reorganized in 1917.
      Isn't it a compromise, to leave the name of the region - Sverdlovsk?
      Or the name of one of the central streets, squares.
      I dare to suggest that Yakov Mikhailovich, as a smart and modest person, would agree with this option.
      At the current political stage...
      We must first bring up several generations of people, patriots who will have the right guidelines in life. And not consumer dementia, as it is now.
      1. +1
        9 February 2023 22: 30
        In Russian tradition, the prefix "Great" is given to those who abolished laws, taxes and extortions. The reform of Catherine, then the Petrovskys, then under Stalin, a lot of things were canceled.
        Quote: Red Biker
        Catherine, as it were, too, except for what you described, at least

        Catherine accomplished a feat that no one has repeated to this day - she freed the peasants who moved beyond the Urals from taxes and extortions. And it is precisely in this way that she made Siberia Russian, and not Chinese.
        1. 0
          14 February 2023 12: 26
          Attracted by tax exemptions and land allotments, queues lined up for Russian citizenship from all over Europe
          Catherine is immortalized in Valhalla - the German pantheon of Glory
  7. +10
    7 February 2023 08: 51
    "Memory is the key word around which to build a discussion,"
    To argue on this topic, you need to know your history. Now in power are mediocrity and ignoramuses who live by the rules. A few sayings:
    "Nicholas was the first to lose all the wars, brought the country to a revolution. Who is he? A saint! Stalin won the Second World War, raised the country from ruins twice, after the civil war and the Second World War, left the country with nuclear weapons. Who is he? A tyrant!"
    "What kind of a state can it be if it teaches its youth through life examples of losers with a capital "N"?"
    "People who demand to reconsider the role of the personality of Lenin and Stalin in history, for some reason do not demand to reconsider the role of Yeltsin and the results of privatization."
    It is necessary to put educated and patriotic people in power, then there will be no one to raise such questions. And now our government and deputies do not have permanent residence or other citizenship, this is a sign of underdevelopment. If now, after eleven months of SVO, the authorities agree to allow athletes to compete under white moisture, what does this mean? And you want such a government to defend the interests of the country and the people?
    1. +4
      7 February 2023 18: 08
      I agree with you completely!
      Ignorants in power are not cloned directly in the offices. At first they play the fool in elite and not very schools.
      Local history, this is now the lot of "losers and bespectacled", well, those who had the conscience not to become political technologists.
      Even at the level of ordinary people and simple questions - everything is rather sad.
      It’s not only in Odessa that Bolshaya Arnautskaya (Chkalova) and Malaya Arnautskaya (Vorovsky) streets are known
      When, in 94, the then mayor of the Bandero-Zionist and anti-Soviet Edichka Gurvits renamed all the streets in the center of Odessa.
      I was not too lazy to find out if the inhabitants of Odessa know who the "Arnauts" are, the definition on the Internet is not accurate even now.
      I just walked along the street several times imitating a visitor - I asked passers-by of different ages about some place nearby and why the street is so strangely called.?
      For several approaches, the number of people whom I got with my questions approached a hundred!
      Even approximately, NOBODY answered!
      But about Valery Chkalov, whose name the street bore quite recently, was mentioned by more than half.
      In ancient times, many of the names of the streets that we now touch were given from the wretchedness of being.
      In the city center - Hay, Horse, Blacksmith, Tar, etc. People then lived hard if tar was cooked in the city center or hay was kept.
      1. 0
        9 February 2023 00: 57
        And you should have asked in Odessa if they know who Martynovsky is? I remember that in the distant Soviet times there was an intercity telephone point on the square named after him. And the square was right in the center of the city, and not too far from Bolshaya Arnautskaya. And another well-known Odessa street is even closer.
        PS And Sennaya, how did you end up in the city center, by the way?
        1. +1
          9 February 2023 04: 19
          Who is Martynovsky I know.
          Intercom... can't remember. Hunting, Pelmennaya, Bookinist, cinematographer Kotovsky
          Bolshaya Arnautskaya \ Chkalova is almost the other end of the city, in the sense of the city center
          StaroSennaya near Privoz, it was more or less put in order
  8. +10
    7 February 2023 08: 58
    I'll dilute it with funny (as for me)
    Born and raised in Moldova, all the signs with the names of the streets we had in two languages, Russian and, accordingly, Moldovan.
    Street in Moldavian Strada.
    Accordingly, the plates looked like this "Lenin street" and below "Lenin street"
    Because as a child, I didn’t know Moldovan from the word at all, I drove it into my firebrand that it stands for this way - Lenin Street, built by Lenin)))
    Fortunately, the pictures of Ilyich with a log inspired ....
    When I saw similar signs in other cities and villages, of course, I got crazy with the energy of Lenin's grandfather. I managed to build everywhere)))
  9. +7
    7 February 2023 09: 21
    About urgent renaming streets I can only say one thing ...
    when a cat has nothing to do, he licks his genitals
    1. +3
      7 February 2023 09: 44
      "when the cat has nothing to do,"
      Well, then you need to start from 1991. How many were renamed in total then? Those “cats” are no longer there, but the “kittens” have remained. So they resist the return of the old memory. Then these "kittens" can be thrown out by the scruff of the neck.
      1. +2
        7 February 2023 12: 09
        Why not from 1917? Was it then that they renamed an order of magnitude more than in 1991? Or is your memory strictly focused on the Soviet period, and we didn’t have history anymore?
    2. +4
      7 February 2023 18: 10
      Urgently, it is necessary to clean up, only Bandera foul language.
      And then translate the issue into the mainstream of a calm, balanced dialogue in society
  10. +5
    7 February 2023 10: 10
    All this is from the Evil ... power.

    When people want to keep their last names, they just add up. For example "Mikhalkov-Konchalovsky"
    But IMHO, someone just needs to report, spitting on the opinion of the population.
    So they are renaming the streets, purely because of the sycophancy of the new government.
    All sorts of Cathedral, Kadyrov, Yaroslav the Wise, etc. Although, for sure, no one has ever seen Wise or Kadyrov there ...

    Clean water toadying and self-promotion
    1. +6
      7 February 2023 10: 21
      "Pure water fawning and self-PR"
      And to this article and the territory is which side? The authorities, on the contrary, do not want the return of Soviet names.
      1. +4
        7 February 2023 18: 17
        I already wrote in one of the comments.
        We have ONE power, divided by meanness and deceit
        Just as today's Russia is a continuation of Kievan Rus, so is Little Russia, an integral part of Russia.
        The civil war in southern Russia is an attempt by Galician separatist nationalists to seize these southern Russian territories.
        Therefore, this problem takes place from Vladimir-Volynsky to Vladivostok
  11. +7
    7 February 2023 17: 05
    IMHO - if all these renamings are needed, then after the victory. And most likely not needed at all. Well, except for the most odious ones, like the Bander-Shukhevychs ..
  12. +1
    8 February 2023 13: 27
    That's what I always did not understand - why do you need to come up with the names of the name of someone? Conventionally, Tsvetochnaya or Vasilkovaya Street or Birch Avenue sounds somehow nicer than the name of Ivan Petrov. Not to mention the lack of connection between the name and the location, such as the Kadyrov bridge in St. Petersburg
    1. +1
      9 February 2023 04: 24
      Regarding the Vasilkovs and Tsvetochnys, I have already spoken.
      In our life, not only botany and floristry takes place.
      And regarding the very desirable binding of the Name to the location - I completely agree
  13. +2
    8 February 2023 20: 12
    A toponymic commission has been working in St. Petersburg for a long time.
    https://toponimika.spb.ru/
    If anyone is interested they can take a look. Informative site on the subject under discussion.
    Basic principles:
    - preserve the old toponymy
    - new names for new objects
    - discussion taking into account very many factors including historical, social, etc.
    - in case of a controversial situation, postpone the decision until better times.
    One of the latest names - "On December 28, 2022, by a decree of the Government of St. Petersburg, the name Mariupolskaya Square was given, in honor of the new sister city of our city - Mariupol. The square is located at the intersection of Babushkina Street, Shelgunov Street and Aleksandrovskaya Ferma Avenue."
    If I were asked how to change toponymy, I would suggest studying the experience in St. Petersburg, so as not to stuff the same bumps, because there are complaints against this commission.
    1. +1
      9 February 2023 04: 30
      Agree with you.
      We have a lot to learn from Peter.
      Even the same method of reconstructing historical buildings "Leningrad method"
      I have always been surprised at our Odessa redneck compared to you.
      For the first time I saw how people get on the bus not in a crowd, but in a queue.
      Almost lost my mind lol
      I have been many times, friends and in general, as for an Odessa citizen - Leningrad is the joy of my soul
    2. 0
      16 February 2023 20: 39
      Thanks for the interesting site.
      testo del tuo commento è troppo breve e, secondo l'amministrazione del sito, non contiene informazioni utili.
  14. +2
    9 February 2023 20: 31
    I agree with the author that renaming at the suggestion of the administration, for example, the region, with the reference "at the request of residents", is currently not always a real request from residents.
    Sometimes this desire for renaming has to do with economics. Change street names on all buildings, replace road signs, reprint maps of the region (city, town), make changes to the administrative structure of the place being renamed. This is money from the regional budget. Occasionally elections and/or appointments need to be made due to name changes.
    All changes must be made by someone.
    1. 0
      14 February 2023 12: 31
      Yes. There is such a moment.
      In Odessa - "Rotten Gena", before the elections he bred the people on a promise to return the name to Marshal Zhukov Avenue and st. 25th Chapaev division.
      The bastard cheated...
  15. +1
    14 February 2023 14: 52
    Interesting topics on toponymy. Also in Russia it is customary to group streets by name????? In Italy, the streets of new districts are grouped into blocks:
    in one district, all the streets are named after composers, in another, all the names of politicians, in the third district, all the names of rivers, and so on. In Italy, it often happens that the municipality renames the street and then the residents remove the new numbers and put the old ones in order not to change documents such as an identity card or a car registration certificate, given that the bureaucracy requires that you, a private person, must also to do this if the street has changed its name due to the fault of the administration. laughing
    1. 0
      16 February 2023 02: 59
      In Italy, this issue has not been studied.
      But the French in every district of Paris can have a General Leclerc street.
      Those. this question should be based solely on local specifics.
      And one cannot blindly copy someone else's experience.
      1. 0
        16 February 2023 20: 37
        Actually, I was wondering if you could give me some general information about the criteria used in Russia. In any case, thanks for the reply.

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