Drones over the trenches: countering reconnaissance quadrocopters and adjustments on the front line

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Drones over the trenches: countering reconnaissance quadrocopters and adjustments on the front line

The Russian Special Military Operation (SVO) in Ukraine has become the largest military conflict in the last half century and the largest military conflict on the European continent since World War II. We can say that even the participants are the same, only now the USA, Canada and Great Britain have joined the Nazi bloc.

Another distinctive feature of this war was the use of the latest means of reconnaissance, communications and information processing, which had never before been used in such quantities and so intensively. It is they who determine the format of hostilities that the NWO eventually came to, namely, artillery warfare with slow “gnawing through” enemy positions by infantry units reinforced with armored vehicles - no tank wedges and "blitzkriegs".



If striking with precision weapons into the depths of the enemy’s territory is mainly based on satellite and undercover intelligence data, then on the advanced the most important task of detecting the enemy, adjusting the actions of ground units and fire weapons is performed by small-sized unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) of a quadrocopter, hexacopter, octacopter, etc. type, as well as aircraft and helicopter schemes. Since most of these UAVs are commercial small-sized UAV quadrocopters, we will talk about them in the future.


Commercial small-sized UAV quadrocopters have become one of the most important and effective means of tactical reconnaissance during the NWO

It is necessary to recall the importance of flashing civilian dronesused by our armed forces during the JMD, and as an argument, cite an excerpt from one of the Ukrainian documents published on the Lobaev Z telegram channel:

“The strengths of the Russian assault units are the adjustment with the UAV and the clear coordination between its operator, guns and attack aircraft. The spotter-operator of the drone is located in the radio access zone, working the so-called. "Carousel" of 2 cars, with a change of batteries. He not only sees our positions, directing fire at them, high-precision and areal art. strikes, but also often coordinates close combat when parts of the Russian Federation attack our positions. There, opponents are often nearby, not seeing each other. And the observer’s hint about where to throw grenades, hit with AGS systems, underbarrel and conventional grenade launchers, does not leave Ukrainian units a chance in the absence of an air inspection.

We propose the following measures to counter UAV groups of the RF Armed Forces:

Widespread use of an aeroscope to locate the location of the drone operator. The enemy (that is, we are Russians) due to the low level of preparation for modern warfare of a significant part of the officers of art. and senior management, practically does not spend time on specials. firmware and hardware-type anti-detection systems, like those offered by the war criminal V. E. Lobaev and his factory (thanks for the praise, I'm always glad. - Note Lobaeva). So the aeroscope captures everything easily. Where airscopes are available in the right number, and the Russians are operating unwired drones, their operator’s work time is calculated in ten minutes before the artillery is covered. fire. After that, the operator either runs away, or gets injured, or dies, leaving the units without visibility and quick coordination. Attention for mortar crews, guns and snipers - the UAV operator is YOUR KEY GOAL!!! There are few of them qualified, and the loss of each is sensitive!!! To learn something new, the same efficiency, you need to spend a lot of time and effort. And it's not easy to find a suitable person for this position! In the light of what we remember - the destruction of spotters, as well as communication repeaters, are key priorities!

On the Internet, there is a huge number of videos taken from UAVs that detect enemy manpower and equipment, provide adjustments to the fire being fired at them, as well as direct dropping of small-sized mines and grenades, carried out with the help of special devices.

There is no doubt that small-sized quadcopter UAVs are a significant threat to our soldiers on the front lines, which means that their destruction is one of the highest priorities.

To destroy UAV quadrocopters, it is necessary to provide:
- primary detection of an enemy UAV quadrocopter over the battlefield;
- additional search, escort and precise aiming of weapons at him;
- defeat by one or another type of weapon.

Let's consider these tasks in more detail.

Detection


The task of detecting UAV quadrocopters is one of the most difficult. These drones are small in size, their bodies are mostly made of plastic. Because of this, they are poorly distinguished by radar stations (RLS) of anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM). In addition, the operation of the radar is detected by the enemy’s electronic intelligence (RTR) means, after which an anti-radar missile (PRR) of the AGM-88 HARM type, a HIMARS multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) guided missile or other guided or unguided munitions can fly into it.

They are also practically invisible in the thermal imager, since the operation of the electric motors is powered by batteries, and they practically do not emit heat - of course, we are talking only about electric quadcopters, and not about agricultural UAVs with gasoline engines, rattling like a lawn mower and glowing in infrared (IR) range like a Christmas tree.

Also, electric UAV quadrocopters practically do not make noise. From personal experience, the DJI Mavic Mini drone “buzzing” on the ground quite loudly at an altitude of 300-500 meters becomes barely audible, and this is in the forest, almost in absolute silence, what can we say about the battlefield. At the same height, it becomes barely visible visually - it can be detected only if you know for sure that it should be there.

Then how to carry out the detection of UAV quadrocopters?

It can be assumed that RTR means can and should be used in the first place. The fact is that any UAV quadrocopter has a permanent communication channel with the operator that controls this UAV. This channel lies in the range from 900 MHz to 5,8 GHz.

You can detect the radiation of UAV transceivers using SDR (Software Defined Radio) receivers and spectrum analyzers with advanced functionality - we already talked about their use earlier in the material The hunt for Starlink terminals and their operators is declared open. Compared to radar and thermal imagers, this equipment costs mere pennies. Even with the help of a single SDR receiver or a spectrum analyzer, in combination with a directional antenna, it is possible to determine the approximate direction to the desired UAV, for example, on the Golden Hands of an Angel telegram channel, a method for detecting drones using the Arinst spectrum analyzer was shown. It can be assumed that a distributed system with triangulation of the signal source will make it possible to do this faster and more accurately.


HackRF SDR receiver with a scanning range from 1 MHz to 6 GHz (left) and an Arinst spectrum analyzer with a scanning range from 35 MHz to 6,2 GHz (right)

The second possible method for the primary detection of enemy UAV quadrocopters is acoustic. As mentioned above, the DJI Mavic Mini electric UAV becomes barely audible at an altitude of 300-500 meters, that is, some sound amplification devices are needed to detect such UAVs. Enterprises of the Rostec State Corporation have created the Attack-Shoroh acoustic reconnaissance module, the exact characteristics of which are unknown.


Acoustic reconnaissance module "Ataka-Shorokh"

Other similar systems can be developed, even by civilian companies that are not currently working in the ranks of enterprises of the military-industrial complex (MIC) - some enterprises have a certain interest, as well as the necessary competencies, but they are not ready to work in this direction without a specific customer . In the end, the first direction finders were created during the First World War.


Sound pickups-direction finders of the times of the First (left) and Second (right) World Wars

Of course, modern means of acoustic reconnaissance should not be as large as during the First and Second World Wars. Presumably, they can be made on the basis of modern hearing aids with a cutoff for exceeding the sound threshold.

Acoustic means of detecting UAVs can include both all-round visibility systems and systems designed to more accurately determine the direction of an enemy UAV quadrocopter. In the simplest version, the UAV can be detected by the operator by ear. In more complex systems, the acoustic signal can be converted to a digital format for analysis, the spaced acoustic receivers will allow you to determine the direction of the enemy UAV. "Acoustic portraits" of the most famous UAVs can be compiled to determine their type.

The proposed electronic reconnaissance equipment based on SDR receivers and spectrum analyzers with extended functionality, as well as acoustic detection equipment, are completely passive systems, that is, they do not emit anything and cannot be located by the enemy to strike with artillery or aviation.

Escort


After the enemy UAV quadrocopter is detected and the approximate direction to it is determined, it is necessary to carry out an additional search for its exact location and escort for subsequent defeat. It is extremely difficult to visually detect a UAV quadrocopter located above 300-500 meters, so some kind of sighting devices are needed.

To detect UAV quadrocopters in the daytime, according to preliminary target designation from detection tools, an optical sight may be sufficient, the magnification of which and the width of the field of view can only be determined empirically. As an alternative, the use of professional video cameras with a variable magnification of the lens and displaying the image on a high-resolution display can be considered.

There is one problem in terms of optical sights and high-resolution daytime television cameras - with their help it is difficult, rather impossible, to detect a quadrocopter UAV at dusk or at night.

The simplest solution, again, based on the experience of the Second World War, is the use of active illumination in the visible range in combination with the aforementioned optical sight. As an optical illumination in the visible wavelength range, the use of LEP-lamps (not to be confused with LED - LED lamps) can be considered. This type of light sources is based on the use of a laser to excite a small dot of a phosphor with a laser, which makes it possible to obtain a narrow long-range beam - the range of illumination by the beam of a LEP flashlight can reach several kilometers.


LEP flashlight beam

Additionally, illumination with a small-sized diode laser with a power of about 1,5 W at a wavelength of 405 nm can be applied to them (available market solutions). A laser with such a wavelength causes the fluorescence of many materials, with a high probability the white parts of a UAV quadcopter will be very clearly visible at a great distance (think of glowing white T-shirts in discos).


Laser diode with a power of more than 1 W at a wavelength of 405 nm

Another solution could be the use of night vision devices/sights (NVD). Not thermal imagers, since UAV quadrocopters are poorly distinguishable in them, namely night vision devices based on the amplification of visible light and infrared radiation of the near range (the author has no personal experience of observing UAV quadrocopters in a thermal imager, in theory, electric UAVs should also radiate heat, the problem rather, the fact that thermal imagers that can see it at a great distance are very expensive).

In turn, night vision devices are divided into analog ones, made on the basis of electron-optical converters (IOC), whose work is based on the principle of light amplification, and digital ones, equipped with a highly sensitive matrix capable of operating in the near-IR range. Digital night vision devices/scopes may have zoom lenses and display the image.

It can be assumed that in the passive mode, only the most modern, rare and expensive analog night vision devices of the third generation will be able to detect UAV quadrocopters. Thus, with a high probability, it will be necessary to use IR illumination, for example, based on the same laser diodes, only in the IR spectrum, which are very widespread and have high radiation power and efficiency. And if you can’t do without illumination, then it makes no sense to use expensive analog night vision devices, when digital night vision devices in combination with laser IR illumination can cope with this task of additional search and tracking of UAV quadrocopters at night.


Image from a digital night vision scope

All proposed measures can be used both individually and in combination. For example, if it is not possible to destroy enemy UAVs at night, then having cleared the sky from them during the day, it is possible to regroup during daylight hours, take out the wounded, and bring supplies.

It is advisable to complete the means of additional search and tracking with a laser rangefinder - they are quite inexpensive and will allow you to more accurately defeat drones.

A variant of a kind of “sniper pair” can also be considered, when, in addition to the means of additional search and tracking of UAVs placed in service, the “second number” will have its own set of additional search and tracking tools, supplemented by a laser target designator based on a laser diode with a power of 1-1,5 W with a wavelength of 520/525 nm. The advantage of such a laser designator is that its beam is visible even during the day in cloudy weather, that is, the “second number” can quickly and effectively indicate the direction of the UAV to the “first number”.


A powerful green laser will allow you to give target designation to the UAV quadrocopter not only at night, but also during the day in cloudy weather (in clear weather, the drone will be easier to detect anyway) - you need a visible beam, since it will be difficult to point and hold a point directly on the UAV

Of course, the use of active emitters - LEP flashlights, IR lasers, lasers with a wavelength of 405 nm, and especially 520/525 nm, can unmask the position of the shooter / observer, but from afar you can only determine the direction to the light source - it is extremely difficult to determine the distance to it difficult, and near the UAV-quadcopter of the enemy, especially if he has a thermal imager, and so will ensure the detection of our fighters by the enemy. It is better to find yourself, quickly destroy the enemy’s UAV-quadcopter and change position than to quietly wait for an artillery raid according to its target designation.

Defeat


Since we are talking about the fight against drones on the front line, the range of destruction will be limited to about one kilometer. Two options can be considered - portable and transportable. Accordingly, in the first variant, the mass, dimensions and recoil of weapons of destruction will be limited.

Presumably, 7,62x54R caliber machine guns, for example, PKM or Pecheneg, equipped with means of additional search and tracking of UAVs, discussed in the previous chapter, can act as means of fire destruction. Machine guns should be mounted on a portable turret, which ensures the convenience of their use on air targets. Defeating a small target at a distance of about one kilometer is a rather difficult task, so it is possible that the accuracy and accuracy of machine guns will not be enough.


Pecheneg-SP machine gun with optical sight and tactical silencer

As an alternative, you can consider the use of high-precision semi-automatic sniper rifles, for example, the "Counter" model of caliber 7,62x51 mm from Lobaev Arms. The rifle should also be located on the turret. It is possible that in order to destroy air targets, the "Counter" should be supplemented with a mode of fire in short bursts (2-3 rounds each).


Sniper rifle "Counter"

It would be interesting to test the effectiveness of the AN-94 assault rifles against small UAVs in the mode of firing in short bursts of two rounds with a rate of fire of 1800 rounds per minute, although, of course, the range of destruction with a cartridge of 5,45x39 mm will be significantly less than with a cartridge of 7,62x51 mm or 7,62 ,54xXNUMXR.

Ultimately, the choice of the optimal weapon variant can only be made based on the results of practical tests.

Separately, it must be said about ammunition. Airsoft sometimes uses ultraviolet (UV) lights to fluoresce flying balls to improve the player's shooting accuracy. Presumably, a fluorescent composition can also be applied to the bottom of the bullets of 7,62x51 mm and 7,62x54R cartridges. In combination with the aforementioned 405 nm laser, this will allow the shooter (and the second crew number) to visually observe the trajectory of the bullets flying towards the attacked UAV for effective shooting adjustment. However, here the involvement of cartridge factories will already be required, which will obviously not be easy. Is it possible to ensure the manufacture of such "anti-drone" cartridges in small batches at small enterprises ...

In the portable version, heavy machine guns NSV, "Kord" chambered for 12,7x108 mm or automatic guns ZU-23-2 chambered for 23x158 mm ammunition, placed in the bodies of pickups or trucks, can act as means of destruction. As in the case of wearable complexes, the optimal choice can only be made based on the results of practical tests. Quadcopter UAVs are a small and difficult target to hit, weapons to destroy it must have high accuracy and accuracy of fire.

You can also consider such rather exotic weapons as the YakB-12,7 four-barreled machine guns chambered for 12,7x108 mm and GShG-7,62 chambered for 7,62x54R. The YakB machine gun is installed on some modifications of the Mi-24 transport and combat helicopter, and the GSHG machine gun is used in the suspended gondolas of the Ka-29 helicopter along with the above-mentioned YakB machine gun.


Machine guns YakB-12,7 (left) and GShG-7,62 (right)

The Belarusians installed two GShG machine guns on the Berserk robotic system, which is designed to support ground forces and, according to some reports, to destroy UAVs.


Belarusian robotic complex "Berserk" with two machine guns GShG-7,62

To aim and hold large-caliber and high-speed machine guns during firing, massive machine guns placed in car bodies will be required.

Conclusions


As we said at the beginning, the fight against enemy UAVs that carry out tactical reconnaissance at the forefront, adjust artillery fire and drop grenades / mines on the positions of our fighters is one of the priority tasks. This material discusses the means to ensure the primary detection, additional search, tracking and destruction of enemy UAVs.

In essence, the proposed solutions represent a spatially and functionally distributed anti-drone complex, each of the components of which can function independently or in combination, complementing each other's capabilities.

Let's list the elements that can be included in it.

Detection:
- means of electronic intelligence based on SDR receivers;
- means of electronic intelligence based on spectrum analyzers;
- acoustic means of reconnaissance.

Additional search and support:
- optical sights;
- high-resolution daytime video cameras with lenses with variable magnification;
- LEP lights;
- lasers with a wavelength of 405 nm, power over 1 W;
- digital night vision devices with laser infrared illumination;
- green lasers with a wavelength of 520/525 nm, power over 1 W (target designation).

Defeat (wearable variants):
- machine guns of the PKM or Pecheneg type chambered for 7,62x54R;
- semi-automatic high-precision rifles of the "Counter" type, caliber 7,62x51 mm, possibly supplemented by a fire mode with short bursts of 2-3 shots.

Defeat (portable options):
- machine guns NSV or "Kord" caliber 12,7 mm;
- automatic guns ZU-23-2;
- YakB rapid-fire machine guns chambered for 12,7x108 mm and GSHG chambered for 7,62x54R.

For the operation of all the above elements of the complex, you will need:
- operators of reconnaissance equipment;
- arrows (first number);
- observers (second number).

The number of reconnaissance assets, shooters and observers per kilometer of front will be determined by the characteristics of the equipment for detecting, additional search and tracking drones, as well as the effectiveness of the selected means of destroying enemy drones. In the future, we will try to consider other ways to defeat enemy UAVs, in addition to those presented in this material.
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75 comments
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  1. +12
    9 February 2023 04: 38
    In addition to the invention and implementation of various and high-budget gadgets, we need to use the experience of our ancestors. Camouflage and anti-grenade nets have been known for 100 years. At the modern technological level, they can be made "two in one" and not use metal at all, which will also provide radar masking of the position. Such a grid will make the use of a drone against an infantry trench, let's say, ineffective. Drones for hunting drones, the topic is certainly interesting, but you can spend all the money this way without achieving a turning point. The means of armed struggle must be cheap and applied massively (everywhere). That's when drone-fear can be reduced.
    1. 0
      9 February 2023 05: 50
      How will the mesh protect against grenades, mines?
      1. +8
        9 February 2023 06: 28
        She will fall on it and bounce, or at least not get INSIDE.
        1. +7
          9 February 2023 07: 18
          More precisely, she slide down on it. Like rain from a sloping roof. But there are downsides.
          1. It is difficult to combine the two in one for a camouflage and anti-ghost net. The anti-grenade should be as smooth and even as possible, otherwise the grant will not roll off.
          2. As far as I know, the first anti-grenade nets were installed back in the 1st World War and at the same time they found use against them - hooks on grants. For a fighter, it’s not a big difference that a grenade will explode nearby in a trench, stuck in the grid and with his head.
          Although in general I agree - masking and again masking in all radiation ranges. Video clips that I see speak of the neglect of this on both sides. Although the "correct objects" are more often in the frame lately, objects such as trenches still seem to be poorly masked.
          1. +4
            9 February 2023 08: 00
            Quote from steeldrone
            The first anti-grenade networks, as far as I know, were installed back in World War I

            In WW1, "visors" over trenches became widespread ... they did it not only against grenades, but also against shrapnel ... they made it from "hard material" (thick boards, tree trunks ...) They also dug "niches" in the walls of the trenches ... ("fox holes", it seems, they were called ...)
            1. +8
              9 February 2023 09: 37
              PS ///////////////////////////////////!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?????????????????????????





              1. +3
                9 February 2023 13: 10
                Quote: Nikolaevich I
                ///////////////////////////////////!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ????????????????????????


                As I understand it, they started dismantling prefabricated metal corrugated structures from tunnels, drainage systems, driveways, technological passages from highways, which Tov "Viakon Ukraine" produced (MULTIPLATE, SuperCor, HelCor)?

                very solid construction. Steel grade LASER 315/355 MC,S 235 JR (or Ukrainian analogue type ST3PS), thickness from 3 mm to 8 mm, with yield strength >235 MPa
                1. 0
                  11 February 2023 20: 49
                  prefabricated metal corrugated structures ... that Tov "Viakon Ukraine" produced

                  In the seventies, in the Soviet school, we were shown such shelters from a nuclear strike. Only there was also an airtight entrance door on them. So the Ukrainians licked off the USSR. And we, as always, forgot our own invention ...
              2. -1
                9 February 2023 17: 42
                Alas, such shelters are vulnerable to FPV kamikaze drones. It is necessary to work towards the electronic warfare so that the drones cannot reach the positions, this is the best option, all other methods of protection are already obviously losing and leading to losses.
          2. +3
            9 February 2023 08: 02
            All this is handicraft and crutches instead of a normal leg. Against drones (not numerous) only a continuous field of observation or object will work. That is, a sufficient number of high-resolution online cameras and high-speed image transmission channels to a computer, where AI (artificial intelligence) will combine everything into a single 3D picture and instantly determine the location of the drone for targeting weapons (automatic turrets, for example) with subsequent defeat already at the beginning of entry to the control zone, that is, to the trenches or the object.
            All this on existing technologies. They already exist in the civilian commercial sector.
            1. +3
              9 February 2023 08: 11
              Quote: Civil
              All this is handicraft and crutches instead of a normal leg.

              Right. In general, all these attempts to think by the criteria of WW1 failed initially, although such a war is now going on.
              To win, we need maneuverable troops with excellent situational awareness, with weapons of great power.

              Infantry should be armed without exception with nightlights and IR sights, active headphones, smart sights. Their equipment should have mobile radars and cameras with AI. Saturated UAVs, missiles and artillery to destroy everything on the battlefield.
              1. +5
                9 February 2023 12: 31
                And laser rifles, of course! To all of them! laughing
                1. +1
                  9 February 2023 20: 25
                  they would be. Whoever has better equipment, it’s easier to fight
                2. 0
                  10 February 2023 17: 30
                  You tell jokes to the Marines near Ugledar! No.
                  Drones are a reality, the cost of fighting them does not matter, this is already inevitable! fool you need to implement existing solutions now, ways to reduce costs are work for the future!
                  To begin with, probably saturation with electronic warfare equipment to the very ears, as the Yankees stuffed the APU with ATGMs, so that, by signs of the presence of a drone, jamming the air at the estimated frequencies! If it's effective of course
              2. 0
                11 February 2023 20: 51
                Quote from cold wind
                Their equipment should have mobile radars

                Which unmask?!
          3. +4
            9 February 2023 12: 28
            For a long time, there are demon checkers of various sizes in service. The copter started throwing grenades - the saber is lit and the whole position becomes untargeted. Buzz for another 10 minutes and fly away, the battery is not eternal.
            1. +9
              9 February 2023 12: 48
              Quote: stankow
              The copter started throwing grenades - the saber is lit and the whole position becomes untargeted

              when the grenades are thrown, the smoke bomb will be late and harmful (will give the direction and speed of the wind, to make adjustments)
              a gas mask is again needed or glasses + a respirator (you will get sooty)
              thermal imager type Iridium II-640/2 will solve the problem of smoke

              even if not from a "grenade carrier", but from a guidance UAV
              1. 0
                2 December 2023 23: 21
                A gas mask is not needed, camouflage smoke is not caustic or poisonous. And the drone, which spits homemade products, does not have any thermal imager and is not expected to.
            2. 0
              9 February 2023 20: 23
              when a grenade falls too late, as it were, one of them may be enough. It is important to see the copter before
            3. 0
              11 February 2023 20: 53
              Quote: stankow
              the checker is lit and the whole position becomes untargeted.

              You put up a blinding smoke screen for yourself. You don't see anything around either. The enemy makes a throw and pours into your trench...
              1. 0
                2 December 2023 23: 23
                During an infantry attack, the drones are busy observing, there is no time to hang around and throw grenades... So no one will break in. Meanwhile, the drone’s battery running low and hanging is an energy-consuming matter...
          4. +1
            10 February 2023 23: 56
            Quote from steeldrone
            It is difficult to combine the camouflage and counter netting two in one.


            Soft windows, or PVC curtains. It is a very thick transparent and climate resistant film commonly used in business - hotels, holiday homes and restaurants; easily repaired with plumbing tape and plumbing tape, stapler or welding. No grenades with hooks will catch on such a stretched film, and you can place an ordinary maskset behind it - it is also transparent.
          5. 0
            16 March 2023 04: 23
            There was a photo here. The Germans in the Second World War, the windows of the buildings were covered with nets so that grenades were not thrown inside. Allegedly, the grenade bounced off and flew back. Ours began to hook fish hooks to grenades, in a circle, several. The Germans stopped hiding in the rooms, grenades with hooks turned out even worse))
    2. 0
      15 March 2023 22: 03
      where, like fish, floated up from the bottom - silver balloons ...
      and a network between them. planes "caught" with nets, and even drones ... everything new is well-forgotten old.
  2. -1
    9 February 2023 05: 35
    There is one problem in terms of optical sights and high-resolution daytime television cameras - with their help it is difficult, rather impossible, to detect a quadrocopter UAV at dusk or at night.

    I don’t quite understand how small-sized UAVs will monitor at night? With a night vision device? Are there small plastic UAVs with such equipment? As far as I understand, we are not talking about large UAVs made using large-sized metal parts - they should be used by air defense systems like Pantsir.
    1. +2
      9 February 2023 05: 44
      1. You didn't quite understand what you quoted hi The quote specifically refers to the detection of UAVs from the "ground"

      2.
      I don’t quite understand how small-sized UAVs will monitor at night?

      well, on the issue - another 30-35 years of commercials was decided a long time ago back in the days of the USSR - just nafik no one needs to read red theses of graduates of the best universities of that country recourse
    2. +8
      9 February 2023 07: 43
      Uh, spend 1 minute searching for information is impossible? It's faster than writing this post. At least they wouldn't be embarrassed...
    3. +6
      9 February 2023 12: 54
      Quote from Andy_nsk
      With a night vision device? Are there small plastic UAVs with such equipment?

      uh ... NVD will not work: it needs sufficient lighting, like any camera.
      with thermal imagers. Yes. Keep the "instruction", it will suddenly come in handy (and this is a citizen)
    4. 0
      9 February 2023 20: 24
      drones with thermal imagers sea. Can't hide at night
    5. 0
      11 February 2023 02: 11
      If you are over 60 years old or you are a regular viewer of the Star TV channel and military acceptance, then it is not surprising that you do not know that there are no problems in purchasing a drone with a thermal imager in civilian life.
    6. 0
      11 February 2023 13: 06
      Quote from Andy_nsk
      I don’t quite understand how small-sized UAVs will monitor at night? With a night vision device?


      With the help of an almost ordinary and cheap camera, such as is used in video surveillance systems for night conditions. Lighting projectiles and rockets were not invented yesterday.
    7. 0
      11 February 2023 20: 56
      Quote from Andy_nsk
      Are there small plastic UAVs with such equipment?

      Exist. Flying thermal imager.
  3. +8
    9 February 2023 05: 48
    But what about lasers? A drone without optics is not a drone. And to blind a drone, a laser of some kind of high power is not required. And it will certainly be more effective than trying to destroy the drone with the help of the shooter. It is quite possible to place such a laser on machines like the Tiger.
    I am very glad that this article appeared. Since the problem of the lack of drones in the troops was sorted out for a long time, and for some reason the problem of the lack of countermeasures was not raised. Although both problems are equivalent.
    1. +6
      9 February 2023 14: 23
      Quote: malyvalv
      But what about lasers? A drone without optics is not a drone. And to blind a drone, a laser of some kind of high power is not required.

      I propose an experiment
      - take a class 3R laser pointer (you can also use 2)
      - any UAV (you can even use a toy helicopter) with an electric engine.
      -on it is a photocell with a fixator for the occurrence of current, with a diameter of 3 cm or more (you can stir up with an old mobile phone with a camera with a recording function
      - let your friend steer a helicopter, and you hunt for a photocell with an l-pointer. but you first need to find the UAV in the sky (if it gets even more difficult at night) and then get on the photocell, accompanying it with a laser spot for a while
      that's how

      this is already a class above 4

      It is also easy to fight against laser blinding:
      - opaque curtains
      - head opening
      - the use of filters (The "Compression" had 12 lasers with different wavelengths, so they would not use filters)
      All this is easy to implement: I blocked the laser irradiation to the receiver, and then went to the side, the attack was from the other side.
      Finding a UAV is not a trivial task ...
      ------------------------------------
      The American company Adsys Controls has developed a new laser self-defense system Helios for unmanned aerial vehicles.

      It is designed to detect laser-guided missiles and protect drones from them.
      Small-sized, small weight, energy consumption is minimum.

      Works in passive mode. It is equipped with several sensors that can detect the laser beam and determine its parameters. The location of the gunner is calculated from the same beam. After detection, the system generates interference (or you can point your ammunition)
  4. +2
    9 February 2023 05: 53
    Smart shooters need to be bought or developed. Ballistic computers - sights
  5. -4
    9 February 2023 06: 20
    Even before I had read to the end of the article, I already knew who the author of this stream of consciousness was. wassat
  6. +3
    9 February 2023 08: 22
    I understood correctly - everything is on the market, it is necessary for someone to tear off their backside from a warm easy chair, quickly and efficiently issue orders and buy, since there is a lot of money?
    Such delay and unwillingness to do something is criminal!
  7. +2
    9 February 2023 08: 54
    Programmable ammunition of caliber 23...30....57 mm is what could effectively deal with UAVs, but so far we either don't have them, or are negligible. They cannot be saved from a fan of fragments and a blast wave, and an exact hit is not required
    1. +2
      9 February 2023 12: 51
      Quote: svp67
      Programmable ammunition of caliber 23 ... 30 .... 57 mm is what could effectively deal with UAVs,

      first we need to solve the problem of their detection.
      1. 0
        9 February 2023 23: 10
        If I'm not mistaken, then any observer is optics ... optics is a lens ... a lens is some kind of reflection coefficient ... it means we are building an ordinary radar, only not on radio, but on optics ...
        As I see it ... A machine or a stationary complex sends frequent pulses of a certain frequency (preferably not visible, even in the night vision spectrum) of a low-power laser into the upper hemisphere (take care of the eyes of nearby soldiers), with a reflection from some side, additional reconnaissance is carried out and controlled fire projectile.
        Similar things are used in counter sniper combat (lens sizes and characteristics are comparable).
        1. 0
          11 February 2023 21: 04
          Quote: SoloD
          we are building an ordinary radar, only not on radio, but on optics ...

          Already built a long time ago. Looking for snipers. But such a radar itself is much easier to find than it is to find optics. If you put such a radar on a UAV, then two tasks of protection against UAVs are solved at once - detection of the UAV and its illumination (it will designate itself). And aiming an anti-radar missile at its radiation can be bungled.
    2. 0
      11 February 2023 20: 59
      Quote: svp67
      Programmable ammunition caliber .... 57 mm

      Derivation-air defense. But development has already been going on ... I even find it difficult to say how many years.
  8. +2
    9 February 2023 09: 57
    Fantasies and assumptions have no limits. The author would have made something that either works, would have tested it, then you can write articles. And so....
    1. 0
      11 February 2023 21: 06
      Quote from Beaver.
      The author would have made something that either works, would have experienced,

      Indeed ... I would also produce it in the required quantity and present it to the troops. That's when the Ministry of Defense would give him a diploma! And so... am
  9. +4
    9 February 2023 10: 28
    How strikingly different from the bravura stories about the almighty electronic warfare before the special operation.
    And even more strikingly different from Western attempts to create a laser is the ability to shoot down drones.
  10. +3
    9 February 2023 10: 43
    1) The surest way for infantry to fight drones is a shotgun. "Five for ducks" (C) "Brother".
    2) The most reliable defense against a drone is a covered trench and, by the way, the pipes of the stoves at the top are curved with the letter "G" So that they don’t throw a grenade there
    3) The best means of detection is missing. Well, two guys with sdr calculated the approximate intersection of the transmitter beam. Yes ... of course ... here are two so smart people sitting with a calculator, a rangefinder and triangulating, finding the top of the triangle from nothing to do, and the third then flies to look for the enemy ... We have ordinary math specialists, even though IT people are not mobilized :) . In short Difficult!
    4) The main principle is to disguise yourself from the air and not to shine with bread. Speaking of a thermal imager - smoking kills ...
    1. +1
      9 February 2023 14: 05
      The author, for some reason, ignores the shotgun as an effective means of defeating drones. The shotgun fits perfectly.
      The speed of the plates in clay shooting - 20 m/s,
      the maximum flight speed of quadrocopters is 16-19 m/s,
      initial speed of a shot shot 400-420 m/s
      At a distance of 50-100 m, it is quite possible to fight drones even if they are on the move.
      1. +1
        9 February 2023 14: 41
        So you need to know where he will arrive and when. Here, for example, fighters are riding on an infantry fighting vehicle, the noise of the motor does not allow the drone to be heard, and then an FPV kamikaze drone arrives from behind, you need to have time to pull out a shotgun, moreover, from such a distance, the shot will not be particularly effective as a bullet, since the distance is too small for expansion.
        1. 0
          9 February 2023 15: 21
          From what distance would a shot be more effective than a bullet? Before writing something like this, you need to at least have an idea of ​​​​what shooting from a shotgun is.
      2. +2
        9 February 2023 16: 23
        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
        The author, for some reason, ignores the shotgun as an effective means of defeating drones. The shotgun fits perfectly.
        The speed of the plates in clay shooting - 20 m/s,
        the maximum flight speed of quadrocopters is 16-19 m/s,
        initial speed of a shot shot 400-420 m/s
        At a distance of 50-100 m, it is quite possible to fight drones even if they are on the move.


        Only at close range. Considered here:
        From a cannon to sparrows: will the micro-UAV return a shotgun to the battlefield
        https://topwar.ru/190960-iz-pushki-po-vorobjam-vernut-li-mikro-bpla-drobovik-na-pole-boja.html

        Against observation and adjustment drones located at an altitude of 500-1000 meters, they are useless.
      3. 0
        2 May 2023 12: 01
        And at a distance of more than 70 m, also fight back with a shotgun? A shotgun over 100 m is already ineffective against live ducks.
    2. 0
      9 February 2023 20: 15
      Okay, two guys with sdr calculated the approximate intersection of the transmitter beam

      Roman, what is their range? is there a working example with the abbreviation?
    3. 0
      11 February 2023 21: 11
      Quote: Last centurion
      Speaking of a thermal imager - smoking kills ...

      Right. But the L-shaped pipe of the stove kills even faster. The pipe was led out of the dugouts into the Chechen militants not vertically through the roof, but obliquely through the wall about twenty meters from the dugout. And the exhaust glows less (it cools in the ground), and if it flies through the pipe, then not into the dugout itself.
  11. BAI
    +1
    9 February 2023 11: 25
    Everything is complicated and hemorrhoids. To search for a piece drone. It is necessary to jam the signal over a large area in order to exclude their use altogether. Well, and, accordingly, to solve the problem of communication with their drones, so as not to drown them out.
  12. +5
    9 February 2023 11: 59
    in service there is the "Owl" system, which is a system of acoustic sensors with a computer. It determines the direction, type and range of fire of the enemy's small arms.
    There is a system, in my opinion "Fara", a platform with a machine gun and a short-range radar, which automatically determines the target and opens fire. It was tested in Chechnya in the early 2000s.
    Cross these 2 systems. "Owl" will acoustically detect drones and transmit target designation to "Fara", and she will independently open fire.
    It is quite possible to install on any equipment, starting with UAZ.
    1. +1
      9 February 2023 20: 35
      Slava 1974, the impression is that the time of the headlights is running out - a bunch of drones with a teplacom (1.5-2 million rubles) + artillery is working.
      drone in a kilometer and a half, meters at 300-500 heights.
      anti-drone guns, submachine guns, thermal imagers, portable jammers will not help.
      as it seems, the bum is an option for a small unit for the current situation - a duty officer with an emission spectrum analyzer (to determine the drone's radio emission) and a piece of rail for issuing the "air" command.
      .
      "Owl" will acoustically detect drones and transmit target designation to "Fara", and she will independently open fire.

      there will be no time, there will be no 360 review.
      trend number two is fpv-dronokamikaze. these are high-speed small drones with, for example, an RPG shot glued, flying from any direction along the trench and flying into cover. and they will soon go massively. I think the assembly kit costs 15-30 thousand.
      1. 0
        13 February 2023 09: 07
        headlight time is running out

        ? As far as I know, the time of "Far" has not yet come. They do not exist on an industrial scale.
        there will be no time, there will be no 360 review.

        What do you mean no time? The system works in automatic mode, the target designation gives out in a split second. Where even faster?
        trend number two is fpv-dronokamikaze. these are high-speed small drones with, for example, an RPG shot glued, flying from any direction along the trench and flying into cover.

        The fight should be complex, against drones of various types. Even now, metal nets are being placed around the equipment and they save from drones. Drones flying along the trenches will not bring any damage.
  13. +3
    9 February 2023 14: 49
    https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2023-02/ee.jpg
    I didn’t go “to the forest” for a long time, where there were German fortifications from the time of the Second World War, and so - galvanized corrugated metal about 3 mm thick was still very much alive!
    enterprising collective farmers tried to adapt it for households. needs
  14. +3
    9 February 2023 15: 04
    The most vulnerable spot for a UAV is communication with the operator. It is enough to interrupt it, drown out its frequencies with a powerful and directional signal, and the drone turns into an uncontrollable and helpless piece of plastic. It is in this direction that we need to work. We have good electronic warfare equipment. But they seem to be very few and not enough to cover all needs. In addition, they are bulky, oversized and vulnerable to anti-radar warfare. It is necessary to create small-sized, mobile, trench EW devices with spaced emitters (antennas) and spectrum analyzer receivers to determine and generate the required frequency and amplitude of the generated signals for reliable suppression of UAV communications. It is also necessary to work on improving and saturating the field military units with hand-held electronic warfare equipment, the so-called guns. Increasing their efficiency, range and safety. Of course, it is possible to use riflemen, anti-aircraft artillery to fight drones, but it is unproductive. It is possible to use both laser mobile and compact installations with a power of 30 kW and above. But in our army, it seems that there are none yet. And overexposure has a clearly different purpose.
  15. +3
    9 February 2023 15: 19
    Presumably, a fluorescent composition can also be applied to the bottom of the bullets of 7,62x51 mm and 7,62x54R cartridges.

    Uh, what did the tracers not please?
    1. 0
      9 February 2023 19: 10
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Presumably, a fluorescent composition can also be applied to the bottom of the bullets of 7,62x51 mm and 7,62x54R cartridges.

      Uh, what did the tracers not please?


      The barrel is spoiled, the accuracy is lower, the lethality is lower, the enemy sees them.
      1. +1
        10 February 2023 03: 36
        Quote: AVM
        The barrel is spoiled, the accuracy is lower, the lethality is lower, the enemy sees them.

        No stronger than armor-piercing ones, accuracy depends on the quality of the cartridges themselves, lethality is generally nonsense, just like accuracy is solved by lengthening the bullet, stealth for the enemy is decided by the composition (yes, using F-means, BUT, as part of a pyro mixture) and the shape of the bottom, moreover for ALL ammo.
        The cartridges you offer have a big drawback - they are of no use during the day and without a laser illumination. Well, a narrow special cartridge is a problem for production workers and supplies, however, you noted this.
  16. 0
    9 February 2023 15: 36
    I think there are no effective methods of dealing with drones. Something can be done against one drone, but when there will be a lot of them (and this is a matter of time). Only camouflage and cover can help, as well as electronic warfare. And even then only for now, but with the development of drones, AI, when drones fly in swarms, the effectiveness of camouflage and electronic warfare will decrease.
  17. +4
    9 February 2023 20: 41
    The author did not mention two more detection options. Optics detector, and laser locator.
    The optics detector on a special platform can scan not only the upper sphere, but the rest of the space. You can install such a thing on the same "Tiger". It is not particularly difficult to make a portable version for positions, since the basis is already there. At one time, optics detectors saved more than one life. The laser locator, of course, is much more expensive in cost and it will be possible to install it only on short-range air defense systems. But here this thing will even see a paper airplane. Of course, the weather factor will play a negative role, but it is also problematic to use UAVs in rain or snow.
  18. -1
    9 February 2023 21: 14
    Relying on light firearms in the fight against reconnaissance drones is stupidity. It's simple, if you let a scout close to you at a distance of effective fire from machine guns and sniper rifles, then you don’t have to practice shooting here, but quickly change position, because the operator patch is already leaking your coordinates to the artillery patch, who will immediately send you, for example, 155mm "suitcase" on the head.
    Bomber drones that try to get closer can still be knocked out like that.
    The recently treacherously murdered Igor "Bereg" Mangushev was a tough anti-UAV specialist, and everything revolved around radio intelligence and electronic warfare for him. On rutube there is a video from the Dronnitsa rally, where he talked about all this in detail.
    1. 0
      13 February 2023 08: 58
      Relying on light firearms in the fight against reconnaissance drones is stupidity.

      It is foolish to rely on one thing, thinking that this is a miracle weapon.
      It is impossible to jam a drone controlled by satellite communications with electronic warfare. Counteraction must be comprehensive. There must be electronic warfare, radio reconnaissance, and the defeat of drone take-off sites, operator accommodation points, the use of hardware solutions such as the Aeroscope program, and of course fire damage. And also camouflage and passive protection.
      If everything is used in combination, there will be a positive effect.
  19. 0
    11 February 2023 17: 27
    That's right, but I would add that you need to deal with drone guidance and control operators. There is a radio channel in two directions, which means that it is possible to take direction and cover the operator.
    First, the bearing to the direction, then you need to send your drone there with the simplest radio direction finder and survey camera and aim artillery at it.
    In the area of ​​​​the alleged location of the operator, you can drop a small explosive EMP generator (let the receiver burn it).
    In addition, fighter drones based on winged small-sized drones (with primitive rackets equipped with steel shot) must fight drones. The missile must have a remote sensor for undermining the target when it misses (based on LEDs and photodetectors, then a miss of 10 m will lead to hitting the target).
    During the day, the Sun shines and in reverse contrast in the UV range, all drones will be visible as black spots. Such a UV camera costs a penny compared to a thermal imager, and at night, drones, on the contrary, against the background of a cold sky, will be visible in a thermal imager, and when illuminated in the UV range, a plastic drone will glow like a Christmas tree.
    Illumination in UV can be done on gas-filled lamps (epic power), and on the basis of UV LEDs.
    Even PZ cameras with a long charge accumulation time can help ("EVS" in Leningrad dabbled in this). During the analysis, the background will not change, but the quadcopter, in the form of a point, will move, then it must be taken for tracking and highlighted with anything.
    The distance was measured, the electronic detonation timer was set, and "fire" (preferably in 30-mm caliber, I hope that we still have enough BMP-2). There is no miracle weapon, you just need to quickly work in this direction, and not whine.
  20. 0
    11 February 2023 22: 48
    So, let's see how you can hunt quadcopter drones:
    3 good resolution "allsky" cameras to triangulate things
    1 x 300mm lens type "ASKAR FRA 300" mounted on a quick fork mount with a Zwo ASI 533 monochrome camera at the bottom.
    Parallel to it, focusing on the lens, is the MG 42.
    It goes without saying that shooting birds must be avoided so that the store is not empty. Thus, we will need a bird flight controller to allow or deny the flight.
    I feel sorry for the bird flight controller after 12 hours of waiting.
    PS An improvement to the system could be to add a sonotone to the optics to capture the "BZZZZZZ" of the drone, and not the "CUI-CUI" of the bird.

    Translated by www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
  21. 0
    12 February 2023 22: 19
    The most effective means is one - radar. The same Burdock or Wave. Portable, mobile, can be installed at a distance. I don’t think that for every such radar, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will have an extra aircraft and an extra anti-radar missile. They rather hunt for air defense systems and air defense radars, and very unsuccessfully. In addition, these afars form narrow beams, which will be problematic for a racket to visit. 360 degree view, all-weather, what else do you need? There is no Doppler effect in Burdock, which means that he also sees objects frozen in the sky (mavics). You just need to launch in a big series, and bring down the price with this, because today Burdock costs 10 multis, you obviously cannot bet on each opornik. In general, without economic mobilization, the SVO is clearly not going to succeed.
  22. 0
    29 March 2023 16: 45
    You need air supremacy and suppression of artillery with himars
  23. 0
    April 7 2023 11: 32
    According to common sense, the fight against micro- and mini-drones should be carried out in three directions:
    The first is the camouflage of everything and everyone.

    The second placement of a large number of targets: both simulators and combat robots, communication centers, surveillance equipment. They give us three thousand drones, we give them 300 priority unmanned targets for drones. Expensive, but this is the price for a non-initiative defensive strategy and the inability to fight. Nabiulina and Miller did not allow us to win a year ago - let them pay.

    The third is the means of active destruction of drones. Today, the vicious ideology of hitting drones with rare systems, at maximum range, dominates ... This is not true. It is impossible in principle to get into a drone with an unguided weapon further than half a kilometer. Further - only a guided missile of the ATGM type with a shot in the warhead.

    Against drones hanging over trenches, riflemen up to 7,6 mm in caliber should be used, but they should be placed every 100-150 meters. Such a weapon should be in every department. The required accuracy of hits can only be achieved with the use of electronics. Those. we again return to the problem of machine gun robots.

    You can, of course, try shotguns on drones, but here control without electronics is ineffective, and electronics will be an order of magnitude more difficult than for a machine gun robot. Easier is a one-time cheap analogue of a stinger with a shot charge.
  24. 0
    April 7 2023 11: 39
    I read the comments, there are many interesting ideas. Why doesn't Putin announce a competition and finance at least the initial research of enthusiasts on these topics?
    At least analyze the possibility with existing technologies.
  25. 0
    April 17 2023 09: 16
    Defeat a UAV the size of a head with small arms fire from a distance of a kilometer? If only a god-level shooter or incredibly lucky. Just to see it in the sky will be a feat.
  26. 0
    2 May 2023 10: 41
    Is it possible to scan the air space? Type density and density distortion. Up to 1000 meters.
  27. 0
    29 July 2023 09: 37
    Covering trenches and trenches (yes, this is not the same thing) solves 90% of the problems of the enemy’s copters, especially if each fighter has 2-3 interchangeable positions and he constantly changes them ...
    The copter doesn’t see the fighters, can’t throw anything off, can’t point the artillery at a specific trench - the copter is useless ... That is, the artillery will have to methodically destroy the entire opornik.

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