Tests of the new engine for the PAK FA will begin in 2014 year

Bench tests of a fundamentally new engine (second stage engine) for the fifth-generation Russian PAK FA aircraft will begin in 2014, said Yevgeny Marchukov, general designer and director of the Lyulka Scientific and Technical Center at NPO Saturn, at the 11th International Conference “Aviation and astronautics - 2012. "

“In iron, the engine will be ready in two years, and bench tests will begin, its refinement will go,” Marchukov said at a conference at the Moscow Aviation Institute.

According to him, the new “117 engine” will belong to the generation of “5 +” and will exceed the existing foreign analogues of engines for fifth-generation aircraft in its characteristics.
“This is a fundamentally new engine, so it is created long enough. The engine has a share of 30% less (than 117С), the cost of the life cycle is also 30% less, and it should be cheaper, ”said Marchukov.

He also said that six Su-35 fighters with 117C engines would enter the Russian Air Force by the end of 2012. “Six Su-35 vehicles will go to the troops by the end of this year,” Marchukov said.

According to him, the 117C generation “4 ++” engines on Su-35 aircraft are installed with the “O” letter and are in trial operation mode. “The plane will already go to the troops, where the training of flight personnel will begin,” said Marchukov.

He added that the 117C engine on 80% consists of new parts. “A new fan, a new combustion chamber, a new turbine, an upgraded rotary nozzle,” said Marchukov, quoted by Interfax.

As the newspaper VIEW, reported in August, tests of the new Su-35 fighter were completed in the flight test center of the Russian Ministry of Defense in Akhtubinsk.

Recall that Su-35C is being mass-produced at the Sukhoi plant, the Y.A. Gagarin Aviation Production Association Komsomolsk-on-Amur, in accordance with the state contract for supplying the Russian Ministry of Defense to 2009, 2015 aircraft.

It is expected that in the 2012 year it is planned to build eight Su-35С aircraft, in the next one - 12, in the 2014 year - 12, in the 2015 year - 14.

Su-35 - deeply upgraded super-maneuverable multi-generation fighter "4 ++". It uses the technology of the fifth generation, providing superiority over fighters of a similar class.

Currently negotiations are underway to supply Su-35 with foreign customers. This machine must ensure the preservation of the competitiveness of Sukhoi on the world market before the start of mass production of the fifth generation aircraft (PAK FA).

Comments

[Alexander Romanov]

Poghosyan will deliver 6 new aircraft, well, with a black sheep, at least a tuft of wool.

[traveler]

Such articles inspire optimism, if the designers manage to achieve the declared results then honor and praise to them !!! The main thing is that these engines go for the creation of Russian aircraft, and not abroad (China), and if for export, then in a "castrated" form with worse characteristics.

[Nik_One]

Yes, you do not need to export them (new engines) at all.

[VAF]

Quote: traveler

The main thing is that these engines go to create Russian aircraft, and not abroad (China)

Ours, unfortunately, without this ... cannot do anything +

Airshow China 2012. Debut TRDDF 117S in China - photo .....

At the Airshow China 2012 International Air Show in Zhuhai (Guangdong Province, China), which opened yesterday, the Russian engine company NPO Saturn presented a benchmark TRDDF 117С with a controlled thrust vector, which are equipped with Su-35S multifunction fighters.
According to mil.news.sina.com.cn, this engine is first exhibited in China. According to company representatives, NPO Saturn is interested in exporting them to China.

[VAF]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Poghosyan will deliver 6 new aircraft,

Sanya, I think that here we are talking about the 6 machines that are now available, the 2nd BM-901 and 902 and the 4th Su-35C (01-04) and this is what the engines are changing for them to the new 117C .

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: vaf

Sanya, I think that here we are talking about those 6 cars that are now,

In other words, this year there will be no more gifts, but I was delighted, I thought 6 more cars.

[VAF]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

In other words, there will be no more gifts this year.

No, it seems that they promise to release 2 or 4 before the end of the year, and there ... how the cards will fall, it’s true then with the old motors, because. 117 With just 6 pieces?
In general, everything is as always ...... one says one thing, the other is completely different, but for the third everything is already in service and in the army

[crazyrom]

In how, immediately 5 +! Well done, let the probable opponent die of envy.

[Lavrik]

It is very pleasant to hear that at least somewhere we are "ahead of the whole planet."

[afire]

Engines for aircraft of this class have always been our everything. Class
We are waiting for the speedy arrival in the original.
And do not oversleep espionage activities!

[yllo]

That would have done some sort of demonstration using all weapons. It is clear that the aircraft is still under development, but at least something. PR is also needed.

[Bashkaus]

What, for example? to kick back some Su35 raptor ?, and then say that he first started)))

[Nik_One]

Why is PR needed?

[Nachkar237]

it’s not clear one why so few for the Su-35’s native air force? 48 units will not be enough! we would have pieces of 350 Su-35 and pieces of 250 t-50 then it would be normal!

[patsantre]

It makes sense to buy a Su-35 when the production of the T-50 begins, which should be emphasized?

[Nachkar237]

because the su-35 is cheaper, and it’s possible for foreign birds to break their beaks in the future !!! but to make the T-50 bigger - of course, yes!

[Ppsh]

Attention! You do not have permission to view hidden text.

Su-27 simultaneously attacks 1 air target.
S-35 - six. 48 * 6 = 288 - almost 300 27s .....

[Igor]

Quote: PPSh

it’s not clear one why so few for the Su-35’s native air force?

Because so much can give birth to industry, and even then not always.

Quote: PPSh

Su-27 simultaneously attacks 1 air target.
S-35 - six.

It depends on what targets, if it’s a target of the IL-76 type, then you can probably shoot down six at once, and if it’s a fighter, it’s better to prepare for bailout)))

[silver_roman]

it depends not on the plane, but on the radar. if you put AFAR on su 27, then you will be happy. it’s just that they are not doing much modernization of the su-27. The glider is similar in appearance to the Su 35, but there are still significant changes in the same airframe materials (reinforcement). And the Su35s is needed to train pilots at the PAK FA. sort of like that. if I'm not mistaken of course!

[Igor]

According to him, the 117C generation 4 ++ engines on Su-35 aircraft are installed with the letter “O”

So the engine for PAK-FA will be "4 +++"

Su-35 is a deeply modernized, highly maneuverable multi-functional fighter of the “4 ++” generation.

Ahahaha !!! Another cross was painted, you still need to rename Sukhoi to Messerschmitt and draw crosses on it instead of stars)))

[urzul]

So the engine for PAK-FA will be "4 +++"

Not really
“AL-41Ф1” (Product 117) - for the fifth-generation multipurpose fighter PAK FA
AL-41F1С (Product 117С) - for the multi-role fighter of the 4 ++ Su-35С generation
117 for PAK FA gives more traction.

Ahahaha !!! Another cross was painted, you still need to rename Sukhoi to Messerschmitt and draw crosses on it instead of stars)))

I DO NOT understand your irony. This is the name of the 4 generation aircraft, the modernization or further development of which brings their characteristics and efficiency closer to the fifth generation fighters (4 +), or satisfying the majority, except for stealth, requirements for fifth generation fighters (4 ++)
You agree that Su-27 and Su-35, MiG-29 and MiG-35, F / A-18 and F / A-18E / F differ quite significantly in combat capabilities, although I am one generation.

[Igor]

Quote: urzul

I DO NOT understand your irony. This is the name for 4th generation aircraft, the modernization or further development of which brings their characteristics and effectiveness closer to fifth generation fighters

And what is one plus point missing for this designation?

Quote: urzul

You agree that Su-27 and Su-35, MiG-29 and MiG-35, F / A-18 and F / A-18E / F differ quite significantly in combat capabilities, although I am one generation.

But how do they differ? By the fact that Su is more maneuverable than Fu or that Fu has better electronic equipment than Su? Is it true that Fu has appeared in the stealth version already.

[urzul]

But how do they differ? By the fact that Su is more maneuverable than Fu or that Fu has better electronic equipment than Su? Is it true that Fu has appeared in the stealth version already.

I didn’t quite understand about your Fukalki, I suggested sort of comparing planes of the same family.
What are the differences between Su-35 and Su-27 !?
Thrust-to-weight ratio increased
EPR reduction due to the use of composites, radar blockers and radar absorbing coatings
Phased Radar
Traction Control Vector
Glass cabin
Due to this, Su-35 has an advantage over its ancestor.

[Igor]

Quote: urzul

I didn’t quite understand about your Fukalki, I suggested sort of comparing planes of the same family.

Yes, I just did not read it carefully

Quote: urzul

What are the differences between Su-35 and Su-27 !?
Thrust-to-weight ratio increased
EPR reduction due to the use of composites, radar blockers and radar absorbing coatings
Phased Radar
Traction Control Vector
Glass cabin
Due to this, Su-35 has an advantage over its ancestor.

What else is an ancestor? This is a standard set of modernization of an old airplane, it’s the same Su-27, but for some reason it was called Su-35, plus it was added twice already, and if you put a coffee maker in it you can still add it)))

[urzul]

What other ancestor?

With the Su-27, it is only a glider related.
And the designation is different because the tasks and armament of the aircraft have changed.
Nobody tried to compare F-35 with Su-27, because the result is obvious.
But the Su-35, through the use of stealth technologies and powerful radar and new missiles (will be able to use weapons developed under the PAK FA program), completely competes with the new US.

[Igor]

Quote: urzul

With the Su-27, it is only a glider related.

Exactly!

Quote: urzul

And the designation is different because the tasks and armament of the aircraft have changed.

And what kind of tasks have changed, and is armed with su-35 lasers, plasma guns and railguns, and not bombs, rockets and machine guns.

[urzul]

And what kind of tasks have changed, and is armed with su-35 lasers, plasma guns and railguns, and not bombs, rockets and machine guns.

Was the Su-27 able to carry anti-ship or guided air-to-surface missiles !?

[Igor]

Quote: urzul

Was the Su-27 able to carry anti-ship or guided air-to-surface missiles !?

Yes, he didn’t have missiles at all, because our grandfathers flew to Berlin in the 45th)))

[Nik_One]

Is it in any such modernization, for example, engines with a controlled thrust vector and composite materials are put on the Su-27?

[Igor]

Quote: Nik_One

Is it in any such modernization, for example, engines with a controlled thrust vector and composite materials are put on the Su-27?

In the 35th, no?

[Bad_gr]

When the first Su-35 (1992) appeared, it was made on the basis of the Su-27. More precisely, just a big upgrade to the Su-27. After it appeared the Su-37 (the first flight in 1996), He already had a different glider (aluminum-lithium alloys, composites, the use of welding instead of riveting, etc.). The modern Su-35 (the one that was put into service) has more in common with the Su-37 than with the Su-27, but the glider was again redesigned and completely mine.

[PLO]

Bench tests fundamentally new Engine

I suppose anti-gravity ali plasma?

[Bashkaus]

Hmm ... so far I have something to Darwin, that the author of the article has the same claim, until an intermediate link has been found, the theory has not been thoroughly proved.
Now the engine is 4 ++, and then clap, and immediately 5 +, but where is the usual five?

[urzul]

117С (stands on Su-35) product - 4 ++ - thrust 14500 kgf - old electromechanical control system - UVT
117 product (stands on PAK FA) - 5 - thrust 15000 kgf - plasma ignition system and digital self-propelled guns with elements of distributed parameters - UVT
129 product (the one that is called 117, the engine of the second stage in the article) - 5 + - thrust about 18000 kgf -!?! - UVT (with a presumably flat nozzle)

[shoroh]

when they put these Pak fa in the troops in the final version I will be 90 years old !!!

[gregor6549]

All this arithmetic with plus signs is starting to tire. It is stated that an airplane of a fundamentally new generation has been created and is undergoing intensive tests. But at the same time, not new engines are installed on the "fundamentally new" aircraft, which have always been the Achilles heel of the Soviet / Russian aviation industry. So what's new in this PAK? Radars and avionics also seem to be not the first freshness, as well as weapons. What remains in the "bottom line" of the new products? A new glider shape pretending to be stealth? So this will not be enough. And why spend so much time and money on testing this aircraft, if immediately after the end of the current tests it will be necessary to start new ones? And the main thing. What are they going to take into service? PAK with old engine or new one. If both, then the number of headaches for techies in the army will double if not triple. I don't even mention the costs / I would still understand if the PAK in the existing configuration would have been tested in full, put into service, and then (5 years later) after running the aircraft in the troops and collecting the necessary statistics on all PAK systems, including on the engines and aircraft running-in among the troops, as well as the awareness of the role and place of this aircraft in the overall structure of the Air Force and Air Defense, a decision would be made on the COMPREHENSIVE modernization of the entire aircraft. By that time, new avionics will appear, and weapons and much more, including new potential targets.

[Karish]

Quote: gregor6549

And most importantly. What are they going to adopt? PAK with the old engine or with the new

In general, SSBNs without rockets were accepted, why can’t they accept the PAK without a new engine? If they test it in 2014, it doesn’t play a role, there is time until 2020. And then you can move the deadlines again

[Bad_gr]

Quote: gregor6549

But at the same time, not new engines are installed on the "fundamentally new" aircraft ...

The developer says the engines are new. If you have a more reliable source of information, indicate it.

Quote: gregor6549

Radars and avionics are also not like the first freshness, like weapons.

Name specifically what of the installed electronics of the old.

Quote: gregor6549

A new form of airframe claiming to be a stealth? So it will not be enough.

Whose opinion is this?

Quote: gregor6549

the amount of headaches among techies in the troops will double if it does not triple.

Studies on this issue? Indicate the source of this information.

Quote: gregor6549

By then, new avionics will appear, and weapons and much more,

The meaning of what was said? that now there’s no need to create anything since in the future there will be new electronics, new weapons, and new goals?

[gregor6549]

The meaning of what was said is simple: not to arrange a permanent modernization of what is not yet in service and it is not known when it will be, but to bring to mind as quickly as possible the model that is already being tested and armored combat units with at least the minimum required quantity. Unless, of course, the result is important, not the process. However, no one claims that nothing new needs to be created. It is necessary, but without the Chinese leaps, for they are fraught with, and, as a rule, paid for by the lives of combat pilots.
About the sources. Their mass and everything to list here makes no sense and time too. I will give for example only one article
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2010-01.html
True, it is in English, for which a separate pardon, but you can understand it, if you wish, in the same place and about the "freshness" of some PAK equipment. Again, an unsoiled look from the side is interesting.
And the last thing. The "procuratorial" tone in such discussions is somewhat inappropriate, it seems to me. Everyone has the right to express his opinion and is not at all obliged to prove his point of view by citing hundreds of references to sources or chewing on the points that he wanted to say. The clever will understand and so. It is designed for him

[Bad_gr]

Quote: gregor6549

And the last thing. The "prosecutorial" tone in such discussions is somewhat inappropriate, it seems to me.

The man says: on a new plane, junk engines, no electronics, a glider is nothing special. And my point of view does not need proof, since it is full of net, you need to - look.
Do I understand correctly?

Quote: gregor6549

Again an interesting non-smoking view from the side.

One of the fairly informed sources on PAKFA "Stealth machines" http://paralay.com/pakfa/pakfa.html . Here and about the engines, and about electronics, and about the glider.

And here (http://www.spacephys.ru/svodnaya-tablitsa-istrebitelei-5-pokoleniya) foreign, "clean" view from the outside. And it follows that not only the T-50 is the best among the 5th generation, but also the Su-35, which in our terminology belongs to the 4th with pluses, overlaps the American F-35, which seems to be like 5th generation.

[gregor6549]

Dear Bad_gr, Do not attribute to me what I did not write.
The meaning of my comments is not about "what" or "none" on PAK FAS electronics, engines, weapons, how much this aircraft is ahead of its foreign counterparts, etc. Yes, I wrote that much of what is on this aircraft was developed relatively long ago and provided an article confirming this. But at the same time, he did not at all claim that what was established was good or bad. Yes, and it is not given to me to know, as well as to you. Life will put everything in its place and evaluate everything.
It was mainly about whether the permanent modernization of the aircraft before or after state. tests of the aircraft are completed and it is adopted.
And the last.
Sometimes it seems that on this site everything Russian is customary only to praise and all foreign only scolded. A step to the left or to the right is regarded as slander against the glorious Russian Army and no less glorious Russian military-industrial complex with all the ensuing consequences, including a control shot.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: gregor6549

Yes, I wrote that much of what is on this plane was developed relatively long ago and brought an article confirming this ....

Quote: gregor6549

It was mainly about whether the permanent modernization of the aircraft before or after state. tests of the aircraft are completed and it is adopted ....

You do not find that these two statements contradict each other?
If in the process of manufacturing an aircraft there is a constant modernization (and this is unlikely, the old to the old), then the old, in principle, cannot stand on the plane.

Quote: gregor6549

Sometimes it seems that on this site everything Russian is customary only to praise and all foreign only scolded.

I would not say that. In any case, if a categorical statement is made, then the sources of information should be indicated, on the basis of which this opinion exists. Only universally accepted opinion does not need proof.