Information on the conclusion of the US deal with the Netherlands and Japan to limit the export of chips to China has been confirmed

According to the American edition of Bloomberg, citing its sources, the administration of President Joe Biden nevertheless concluded an agreement with the Netherlands and Japan to limit the export of some advanced machines for the production of microcircuits to China. The agreement was reached in talks that ended on Friday in Washington.

The publication notes that the agreement is aimed at undermining Beijing's ambitions to create its own chip manufacturing facilities in the domestic market. According to the agreement, such companies as ASML Holding NV (Netherlands) and Nikon Corp. with Tokyo Electron Ltd. (Japan) will begin to limit the supply of some of its high-tech products to China. In particular, these companies will stop supplying China with equipment that can be used to produce advanced chips.

The agreement is a victory for Biden, who seeks to contain Beijing's rise in power by cutting off the country from the world's tiniest semiconductors.

However, ASML chief executive Peter Wennink warns that US policy could have unintended consequences, noting that it would not be difficult for Beijing to move to develop its own technology and not depend on its imports.

It will take time, but eventually they (the Chinese) will get their way

Wennink said.

Comments

[voice of reason]

They are trying with all their might to force China to take a military step towards the return of Taiwan. They decide where one province of the country can produce products and where not. Violating the "one China" principle.

[Anachoret]

In Taiwan, the production of chips, not equipment) although Nikon and Cannon produce equipment on the technical processes of the last decade and Asml is ahead of the rest in this regard,
but China already has at least two equipment manufacturers that are at least better advanced than the Japanese. So this war will only accelerate China's withdrawal from equipment imports and the development of its own manufacturers.

[Shurik70]

the agreement aims to undermine Beijing's ambitions to build its own chip manufacturing capacity in the domestic market

China has repeatedly proved that if it lacks something, it starts to produce itself.
So restrictions on the import of equipment will create only temporary difficulties.
And then China will produce its own equipment.
Not only have they lost the Chinese market. So China will lure other customers from them.

[fa2998]

Quote: Shurik70

So restrictions on the import of equipment will create only temporary difficulties.
And then China will produce its own equipment.

Quote: Shurik70

So restrictions on the import of equipment will create only temporary difficulties.
And then China will produce its own equipment.

And China is also a leader in the extraction of rare earth elements. There is something to answer - limit exports.
In the meantime, "kill" - buy in Taiwan.

[Stella Haddad]

Quote: fa2998

Quote: Shurik70

So restrictions on the import of equipment will create only temporary difficulties.
And then China will produce its own equipment.

Quote: Shurik70

So restrictions on the import of equipment will create only temporary difficulties.
And then China will produce its own equipment.

And China is also a leader in the extraction of rare earth elements. There is something to answer - limit exports.
In the meantime, "kill" - buy in Taiwan.

The United States also mines them + recently found deposits in Sweden and Turkey. Nothing will come of it.

[Shurik70]

Yes, and there are technologies for the extraction of lithium from sea water.
They are not being developed, since Chinese is cheaper to buy. But if these deliveries are interrupted, they will develop.
So won't China stop trading. Unless, of course, the United States goes crazy on this issue and starts to interfere with trade. And then they will begin to impose duties, set price ceilings. It's fashionable now, go crazy.

[Dismas]

And they will rest against the horn in profitability. It is possible to extract gold from sea water, but who needs gold at 100500 when the exchange will "dance" from production volumes and the lower "bar"? Most likely, bypass schemes are simply involved.

[Leopold19]

Well, this will not help China. They won't be able to use this equipment anyway.

[dmi.pris1]

Restricting the export of chip manufacturing equipment, not the chips themselves. Correct the title

[tihonmarine]

The publication notes that the agreement is aimed at undermining Beijing's ambitions to create its own chip manufacturing facilities in the domestic market.

And undermine the sales market of the Netherlands and Japan. "A holy place is never empty", it will be occupied by the USA.

[Roma 1977]

I don't think. It is the Dutch and Japanese equipment for the production of chips, as the most advanced, that the United States itself uses. This is how it happened historically.

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: tihonmarine

And undermine the sales market of the Netherlands and Japan. "A holy place is never empty", it will be occupied by the USA.

They won't undermine.
The US is strong only in the production of spokes in the wheels of other economies.

[faterdom]

China is working on this, the fruits are already there, and in 5 years it will not need any AMSL.
The Americans threw the yeast into the toilet, and then they try to stop the process, but it will not work.
There was a moment when it was decided: to quit or not to quit, and then - go with the flow. Smell, swear, threaten, but swim, there is no other way to move.

[Wolf]

If necessary, China will make equipment for the production of chips in 1,5 -2 years. With this move, the US will only force China to become one of the world's first manufacturers of equipment for the production of microchips. Simultaneously threatens production in Japan and Holland on the world market.

[Wolf]

I am 90% sure that China knew what the US wanted to do and had already prepared a plan and implementation of equipment production.

[Stella Haddad]

Quote: Wolf

If necessary, China will make equipment for the production of chips in 1,5 -2 years. With this move, the US will only force China to become one of the world's first manufacturers of equipment for the production of microchips. Simultaneously threatens production in Japan and Holland on the world market.

China in the production of chips is inferior even to South Korea, stop praying for this country of the 2nd world.

[Arzoo]

China in the production of chips is inferior even to South Korea, stop praying for this country of the 2nd world.

South Korea is one of the most technologically advanced countries. For example, South Korea is technologically ahead of Israel by 10 years. Here, Israel is a backward Middle Eastern stash that buys everything from the Americans, but South Korea sells its technologies.

[Stella Haddad]

Quote: Arzoo

China in the production of chips is inferior even to South Korea, stop praying for this country of the 2nd world.

South Korea is one of the most technologically advanced countries. For example, South Korea is technologically ahead of Israel by 10 years. Here, Israel is a backward Middle Eastern stash that buys everything from the Americans, but South Korea sells its technologies.

Do you think I'm interested in Israel now?
But if you compare Israel with Russia, then ... I will not comment, otherwise I will become a "Russophobe".

[Armen Sologyan]

US developer and distributor of biological weapons of mass destruction!!! It's time to be a military alliance "Russia, China and North Korea." I think that Iran will join this region, which is tired of this constant American stupidity !!!

[bombaher]

The Chinese will be provoked anyway, only as long as they endure, they will be economically pressed and get exhaust from this. Therefore, the Chinese need to support us smartly for a long time. Otherwise, then they will be alone against Western evil and there will be no one to help them. Two-vectorism, like the Serbs, will not lead to anything good

[And Nik]

With provoke to what? Do you know where the phrase "the last Chinese warning" comes from? In modern history, in fact, China violated the principle of the "Last Chinese Warning" once, on October 25, 1950. The next time will have to wait until at least October 25, 2050.

[rotmistr60]

It will take time, but eventually they (the Chinese) will get their way

These will succeed without a doubt. Today, the Netherlands (everywhere they are in time) and Japan have made a deal with the United States on sanctions against China, and tomorrow, who knows whether they will have to look for an opportunity for economic cooperation with it? With the persistence of a maniac, the Americans cut off the oxygen for those who do not want to stand in a single system of "democracy" under the command of an "American sergeant."

[Osipov9391]

I have seen Chinese motherboards and Chinese-made motherboards from other electronics, even from cash registers.
What I noticed is that there are almost no Chinese microcircuits on these boards - they probably just don't make the necessary ones yet.
Korean, Malay, Japanese, Indonesian and others.

[alexey_444]

When a person saws the branch on which he sits from the side, it seems that he is insane, but with the policy of the United States, it seems that this is not obvious to everyone. On the other hand, the Americans always sawed and never fell, the tree rotted faster. Now is another case, the Americans cannot die their consumption, and more and more self-sufficient elites appear in the world and they do not like this state of affairs. As for the chips, China will slow down for 10 years, but then it will shoot and you won’t catch up with it. Satanists hope only for India and to overwhelm us.

[Osipov9391]

The worst thing that greatly slows down the creation of modern weapons and communication systems for the troops is the fact that modern element base in terms of integrated circuits is not produced in Russia at all.
Even what the best factories can do now is 0.6 and 0.13 microns according to a well-established process.
And such processes are the level of the late 90s and early 00s. Modern chips cannot be made on it.

Therefore, today in Russia they do not make microcontrollers above 25 MHz and practically do not make flash memory above 128 KB.
Anything above these values ​​is foreign foundry production, Taiwan or Germany.
No longer available due to sanctions.

And now nothing can be done without memory chips - neither an aviation "black box", nor an army tablet, nor an UAV.

[mitroha]

Quote: Osipov9391

Even what the best factories can do now is 0.6 and 0.13 microns according to a well-established process.

Micron has long been working on 90 and 65nm. Another factory is debugging 45nm. By 2031, 28nm will go.
But piglets can jump further. After all, they don't have any

[Engineer]

With 65 nm, a plug came out. Mastering 8 years already
https://habr.com/ru/post/661637/

On the official website of Micron, the 65 nm process technology has been “in development” since 2014. And not a single serial chip for this process has ever been presented to the public. Elbrus-4SM, which was supposed to be produced at Mikron according to 65 nm standards, is not presented on the official MCST website and, apparently, never existed in silicon.

Well, to the heap

Russian engineers will master the production of chips according to 65-nm standards by 2026

https://overclockers.ru/blog/TEXHAPb/show/59543/rossijskie-inzhenery-osvoyat-vypusk-chipov-po-65-nm-normam-k-2026-godu-i-po-16-nm-k-2030-kommersant

[mitroha]

Quote: Engineer

Engineer
Today, 14: 54
NEW

0
With 65 nm, a plug came out. Mastering 8 years already
https://habr.com/ru/post/661637/

There is not entirely true infa, or rather not entirely accurate. The guys are confused in mass production and production in principle ... Mass production, yes, is stalling (but it's not a fact that it is so urgently needed). The rest works

[Osipov9391]

Micron working processes are 0.18 µm maximum. Which are more or less mastered and working.
Here are their processors - https://mikron.ru/products/high-rel-ic/microprocessors-dsp/dsp/product/1892vm17f/?lang=ru
0.18 µm CMOS.

Everything below is foreign factories.
And even such processes as 0.35 microns and 0.25 microns do not always work well if ours.
Milandr ordered everything from abroad - now they have arrived.

[Osipov9391]

I have known Micron for 10 years.
It is immediately clear that you are not in the subject. There are no close such processes for the military.
All that is in terms of memory is 0.18 microns or a maximum of 0.13 microns which is equal to the level
early 2000s:
https://www.mikron.ru/products/high-rel-ic/memory%20/eeprom/

You can continue to minus and shout to the whole world that we can all do it.
But it has NOTHING to do with reality.

PS

Are you familiar with the concept of the EKB-2021 List?
Folder 1 section 1.

[Glagol1]

Of course they will. And the stubborn striped people drown international laws and rules with their own hands. Soon 80% of the world will look at the United States as a scarecrow.

[Bolt cutter]

advanced chips.

3-2 nm ASML technologies are needed only for wearable electronics like smartwatches - such chips are too unreliable (in the 2000s they complained about the insufficient reliability of 130nm chips in the stressful conditions of aerospace). By the way, 2nm technology is based on a tin vapor laser developed in the USSR, published in periodicals and remaining a scientific curiosity for a long time. The Americans have the rights to all the software of the ASML lithographs, and thus practically have the right to veto their sale and use by anyone else.

[Engineer]

3-2 nm ASML technology

ASML does not have such technologies. EUV scanner emits at 13.5 nm

2nm technology based on tin vapor laser

The laser shoots at the drops of tin. The steam fraction is very harmful and is fought in every possible way.

developed in the USSR, published in periodicals and remained a scientific curiosity for a long time

The 2 nm technology is based primarily on ultra-small characteristic dimensions (though not 2-3 nm) and high density. The pioneers there were the Japanese.

[Bolt cutter]

The laser shoots at the drops of tin. The vapor fraction is very harmful

Drops are fired with incredible accuracy and do not leave the body of the machine.

ASML does not have such technologies

And who has it?

The pioneers there were the Japanese.

Japanese photolithographs (for sale) offer a 25nm process technology.

[Engineer]

Drops are fired one after another and fired very accurately and cunningly. Tin vapor is a possible side effect of such shooting and it is very harmful.
PS Harmful - meant for optics, not for people

And who has it?

at TSMC. Built around an ASML scanner and stuffed with all sorts of tricks like manipulating masks, etc. It's still damp.

Japanese photolithographs (for sale) offer a 25nm process technology.

You are lumping everything together. It was they (the guys from NEC) who got 2 and 3 nm per channel length. But the Japanese are lagging behind in the latest generation of scanners, and this comes back to haunt them.

[Bolt cutter]

(NEC guys)

And a ready-made solution is offered by competitors from Holland (I somehow remembered that they are called "drug addicts" on the forum) ) And what about maskless technology?

[Engineer]

A ready-made solution is offered by competitors from Holland

The tale of how ASML did 3-4 Japanese corporations that developed analogues is the subject of a book. In Japan, some see it as a national disgrace.

What about maskless technology?

She's fine. Widely used in the world for small batch launch.

[Div Divich]

When will China start cooperating with Russia in the production of chips?
China has mature production technologies, we just need them, primarily for the defense industry, and civilians can use Chinese equipment, since it is mass-produced and therefore cheaper at times.

[Vincent price]

Why Russia should cooperate is understandable, but why should China?

[Anton Boldakov]

They have already forced the Russians to create their own lithographic machine for the production of chips ...

[Yaroslav the Wise]

Isn't it time to turn Japan into a second Atlantis? Somehow they became too active. Well, I'm already tired of living, apparently. So let them live very badly.

[Eug]

It is necessary to stop them somehow so that radioactive waste is not dumped into the world's oceans.

[Last centurion]

Moreover, China has one market hungry for such machines - the Russian Federation. So they can safely develop both for themselves and for export

[Eug]

As for me, this will have a greater impact on the release and, accordingly, the gadget market - i.e. on the economy than on military developments.

[Ostwest]

In China, there are no such types of personalities as Gorbi and EBNa. Yes, and Gaidar and Chubais will be quickly shot there, and they won’t produce some kind of Gaidar readings in which they discuss mythical future achievements that either never happened or don’t exist .. Therefore, in China, the country is developing, as it used to be with us: what is missing we will do it ourselves. Not made on the knee. They will have chips and everything you need. You will also ask for help, a dangerous fool, this senile Bidon. It's time for him to be scrapped, he only creates wars for the world. He will have the last one, according to his senile desire, but the world will suffer greatly.
In China, they don’t feed tales, they do business there.