The goal is high-tech Russia

129
The goal is high-tech Russia


Hi-tech is "high technology"
this is how the English phrase High Tech is translated.
This concept refers to the whole complex
modern high-precision disciplines
with the widespread use of computers, the Internet,
drones, nanotechnology, polymers,
neural networks, GMOs and other madness.

Digitalization without hardware


In the information space, topics are constantly discussed: “Russia is not capable of producing modern microelectronics”, “Russia is losing influence in the post-Soviet space to the West and China”, “In Russia, a low standard of living”. These statements are essentially true, but at the heart of these problems is still a weak and in many respects dependent, primarily on Western technologies, industry!



The government is taking steps to improve the situation and, in principle, is achieving results. But the chosen path, in my opinion, although it leads to positive results, does not provide the country with explosive economic growth and does not give Russia a chance to become a high-tech power, and at the same time one of the leaders in the global economy.

I dare to express my opinion with an assessment of the situation and a possible way out of this situation.

After the collapse of the USSR, the government of the Russian Federation chose a liberal approach to the economy, the essence of which is: “the market determines what, where and in what volumes it is produced”, and the development of the economy was focused on integrating Russia into the world market. Unfortunately for us, the world market has determined that Russia is a consumer and not a producer of high-tech products.

Our country is one of the largest suppliers of resources to the world market, which is natural, given the presence of an excess of resources and the lack of large-scale production in Russia that could occupy the entire working population. The comfortable life of Russian citizens largely depends on supplies from abroad! Imports provide the inhabitants of the country with a quality of life comparable to Western countries.

There is, however, in our position one huge but! To develop the wealth of Russia and ensure their export abroad, a large number of highly qualified specialists with a high level of income is not required.

Despite the presence of high-tech industries, such as the military-industrial complex, aircraft and shipbuilding, nuclear energy, the space industry, the chemical industry, a huge part of the population is employed in sectors of the economy that do not require high qualifications, which means that their wages are also not high. Which leads to the problem voiced by President Putin: in Russia, the level of wages is significantly lower than in Western countries. The government explains this by lower labor productivity in Russia, compared with more prosperous states. I agree with the correlation between labor productivity and wages.

Why are there no companies in Russia comparable to Samsung, Huawei, Apple, and why is our vast country not a major high-tech manufacturer?

The answer is banal: the production of mass high-tech products and microelectronics, including microchips, is not economically profitable in Russia, there is simply no domestic market for these products!

Take history the success of China, Singapore, Taiwan, etc.: the governments of these countries were able to attract foreign investment to the country, the meaning of which was to build enterprises based on a modern industrial base, capable of producing high-quality products, which, due to local conditions, had a lower cost, at compared with those produced in the West, and the products of these enterprises were intended for sale in the Western market! That is, the growth of industrial production was not due to their own developments and not due to the introduction of their technologies, and not due to their own market. Growth was due to the introduction of foreign technologies and developments, and the opening of the Western market for the products of these enterprises.

Why should our government be criticized? For dreams to repeat the path of these countries! The economic bloc of the government is dreaming and working to bring foreign manufacturers to Russia, who will produce something interesting for us to export abroad.

Some years ago, Vladimir Putin talked a lot about the robotization of industry, pointing out that this is the way to a new economic order. Unfortunately, the topic of Russia's robotization has died down.

Today, the government sees the high-tech future of Russia in digitalization. In this area, there are successes, both in the field of digitalization of government agencies and in business. Russian companies such as Yandex and Kaspersky Lab are prominent brands in the global economy.

Only all this digitalization is based on hardware, which is not produced in Russia, and the more we digitalize, the greater our dependence on imported high-tech manufacturers. Without solving the issue of the production of "iron" for high-tech, Russia eventually runs the risk of falling hopelessly behind in military technology, when all sorts of homing bullets, reconnaissance dust or optical camouflage based on transceiver devices in the form of paint are created, and God knows what else - our military-industrial complex will simply have nothing to answer!

We summarize: Russia has a lot of land and resources, but not enough population for such a territory, we are seriously lagging behind in microelectronics, and there are no prerequisites for leveling the situation, since there are no economic incentives for deploying high-tech industries in Russia! Repeat the success of the Asian dragons, where the West launched the production of high-tech products for supply to the Western market, Russia does not shine. All of the above factors threaten the emergence of an irresistible technological dependence of Russia on foreign manufacturers of microelectronics. Our government is trying to find a way out, relying on Western models and foreign experience, forgetting about its own experience.


Superpower or third world?


In the 30s of the last century, with the help of industrialization, the USSR was able to turn from an agrarian country devastated by the Civil War into an industrial giant in a short time. And this happened not due to the opening of the Western market for Soviet industry, but due to the solution of their own large-scale tasks.

Today, in order to change the negative vector of development, we need a similar large-scale project based on solving a grandiose internal problem. I see this task as: improving the welfare of citizens by eliminating low-skilled labor in Russia through automation and robotics all processes.

Today, Russia does not even get into the world rankings in terms of the level of robotization! Because the share of Russia in the production and implementation of industrial robots on a global scale is comparable to the error.

The statistics are approximately as follows: more than 500 thousand industrial robots are installed in the world annually, the largest manufacturer is Japan, more than 50% of world production, the largest consumer is China, more than 150 thousand robots are installed in it a year. China, by the way, is among the top three global manufacturers of robots, the average density of robotization in the world in 2019 was 99 units per 10 thousand workers, the highest density of robotization in South Korea is more than 800 units per 10 thousand workers.

Russia is not a field plowed by robots! In 2019, 1 robots were installed in Russia, of which 003 are Russian-made (made using imported components, key components are practically not produced in Russia), the density of robotization in Russia was 42 units per 5 thousand workers.

I am sure that nothing has changed today, since there are no real statistics on the Internet. Robots in the world are already yesterday, the world is actively introducing 3D printers, for many Russian manufacturers it is an incomprehensible miracle machine, because they have not seen 3D printers in real life, and few people know how to use them, although for small-scale production this is a very useful thing.

I love Russia, but even I can't help but sarcastically: "What the hell, superpower? In the industry we are real third World».

The government has accumulated huge funds, which it is time to print out for a massive task!

A large-scale task is the robotization of the entire country


The scale of this task is a cardinal change in our way of life, production culture and attitude to work! Knowledge and creativity become the basis of labor, millions of mechanisms should enter our lives, either replacing a person or significantly increasing his productivity, if you like, then droids should become our everyday life.


The solution of this problem will spur all promising areas and completely reformat society, stimulating its development, since knowledge and qualifications will be needed for work.

The fear that robots will leave people without work is stupidity. The experience of the leading countries in the use of robots, which include China, Japan, Germany, shows that the population replaced by robots will definitely find another job, these countries do not suffer from unemployment caused by robotization. Unemployment exists where there is no production.

Instead of such professions as a loader or courier, there will be a profession of a robot maintenance technician. Millions of robots will require thousands of production lines that will need engineers, technicians, programmers, all of them will need education, with a corresponding increased need for teachers. Such a massive industry will employ countless small companies to repair, tune and maintain robots and production lines.

In Russia, there is a shortage of population, and spending labor resources on low-skilled labor is a waste for society. Modern youth, who grew up on gadgets, already today seeks to avoid manual labor, automation is a step towards young people, they will enthusiastically pick up this work and be able to solve all problems.

Russian robotic companies are young teams boldly moving into the future. Robotization allows you to organize production or facilitate labor in remote areas where there is an acute shortage of labor, in the Russian vast expanses - this is a vital necessity.

How to start?


It would be good to start with the development of the concept of the "Society of the Future", how it should look, and proceed not from economic expediency, but from the production efficiency of each person.

A person should be surrounded by a world in which he can be as useful as possible, easily realize his talents, and if with talents of complexity, then for an hour of his work, he should bring the maximum possible benefit, with the corresponding financial benefit for himself.

Take, for example, a janitor: in fact, this is a socially significant profession, cleanliness and order on the streets of cities are impossible without janitors. Today, this is low-skilled work, with a corresponding salary, which leads to a shortage of janitors themselves and, as a result, to the unkempt streets and courtyards of our cities. The whole world around the janitors has changed a long time ago, Russia has become a space power, and our yards were swept with a broom in the XNUMXth century, so they are sweeping with a broom in the XNUMXst century, is it really effective?

It is impossible to solve today's problems with the shortage of janitors by raising salaries to the level of highly qualified workers, but it is possible to create a robotic complex for cleaning yards and streets. The operator of such a complex, where one person monitors the cleanliness of the whole quarter, can be paid a decent salary. It is in this vein that the concept of the "Society of the Future" should be developed.


The first stage of robotization in Russia


As part of the development of the "Society of the Future" concept, the program "Total Automation and Robotization of Production Processes in Russia" should be adopted as the first stage in the development of an automated Russia.

Today in Russia, many entrepreneurs and business leaders have no idea how they can automate their production. The reason is banal, many do not have money for automation and robotization, and the price of robots is such that production with the help of guest workers is cheaper, and therefore they do not think about introducing robots already on the market. Without subsidies, the problem of robotization of production cannot be solved.

In Europe, I came across examples of subsidizing the development of industries. An Estonian entrepreneur was offered a €600 EU subsidy for a €1 million fish processing project on the condition that he invest €400, albeit with borrowed funds. Another example, also from the EU: a Lithuanian logistics company was given a subsidy of 150 euros to train staff in foreign languages ​​(they learned Norwegian). These examples show that business development subsidies are the norm in the West.

In Russia, the state should also subsidize the development of production. Programs to subsidize the development of high-tech technologies in Russia seem to exist, maybe they bring some result. But I, as a layman, have not come across the result of subsidizing Russian high-tech technologies, there is no Russian high-tech in my life, so I have the feeling that billions are spent on the invention of a bicycle, and then no one will produce this useless bicycle, i.e. money is wasted!

I see the most effective solution as a first step: attraction of Russian manufacturers of robots to the introduction of industrial robots they have already created in Russian enterprises at the expense of the state.

As an example: you can choose one branch of the economy or a certain technological process for which Russia has the most ready-made solutions, designate a budget sufficient to re-equip the entire industry (as an option - 350 billion rubles), and each robot manufacturer must provide a solution with which for this money, you can robotize the largest possible number of industries in Russia. After that, at the expense of the budget, to re-equip actually operating enterprises with automated Russian-made lines.


What result will we get?

First, all the money will go to the cause. Naturally, more than one robot manufacturer will get the money. The best idea will receive a larger budget, but at least 60% of the orders must go to subcontractors, i.e. competitors.

In addition, the budget must be mastered within a certain time. This is due to the need to maintain a balance in the economy, in the process of re-equipment of production, who is the first to modernize, he gets an advantage over the last. That is, the money should go for the best idea, but the whole industry!

Robot manufacturers will receive money and, most importantly, an incentive in the form of orders for the development of their production, for new developments, for training personnel and, not least, for keeping them in the industry (there are problems with the outflow of specialists who, having gained experience, go to large companies from other industries or abroad in general). Real producers at the expense of the state will re-equip their enterprises, increase productivity and reduce costs, increasing their competitiveness and financial attractiveness for investors or credit institutions, i.e., they will receive an excellent incentive for growth.


I repeat: at the first stage of robotization, we do not invent anything. We are loading, or rather, rebooting, the existing production capacities of Russian robot manufacturers, introducing the robots they have already created at industrial enterprises already operating in Russia.

I am sure that the possibilities of robot manufacturers are extremely limited and, even performing the first stage, they will have to invest in a large-scale expansion of production capacities for the production of industrial robots. Which in parallel should lead to the provision of orders and machine-tool companies available in Russia.

But investments in robot manufacturers should be made through loans, albeit concessional, or by attracting private investment. Since this industry receives guaranteed orders from the state, there should be no free money, so that only efficient companies develop in the industry, and not freebie sawers!

The second stage of robotization of the country


In the process of performing the first stage of automation of Russian enterprises, requirements for the second stage are formed, and this time we do not take ready-made solutions, but set the task (but in dialogue with robot manufacturers so that the task is up to them) to develop solutions for robotization of another industry or other production sites. Robot manufacturers, provided with finances in the first stage, will be able to invest in the development of new complexes.

Thus, it is possible to develop a plan for 5 years (five-years, a common thing) to re-equip the Russian industry in general and develop the industry for the production of industrial robots in Russia in particular.

The purpose of the above work: Ensuring the growth of Russian robotic companies to the size of high-tech concerns capable of independently building mega-factories and competing on equal terms with global high-tech giants.


The program of production robotization will not solve all our problems, but we will create a large market for high-tech equipment with consumers, developers and manufacturers, as well as a complex equipment maintenance service and a training base for training specialists - this is the foundation for further development.

Because in this market, in addition to the final manufacturers of robots, there will also be the production of components (servo drives, various kinds of boards, electric motors and hydraulics, sensors based on all physical principles), and most importantly, a significant number of young professionals with experience and knowledge who will 100% try use them to create some kind of miracle machines.

Kulibiny


Now let's move on to our Kulibins-inventors, without them the transformation of society is impossible. They are the ones who generate wild ideas that change our lives for the better.

What are the current problems of Russian inventors?


The first is the need to purchase components abroad, on resources like AliExpress, or through specialized forums, since little is sold in Russia. This complicates the process of finding components (you need at least knowledge of English), and today there are also problems with the delivery of the necessary parts to Russia.

At the same time, in Russia there are productions of various parts, and as part of the robotization program, in theory, additional productions of components should appear, from which something interesting can be assembled. The lack of retail sales of Russian components is due to the unwillingness of manufacturers to be distracted by retail sales, which is often simply not profitable. Modern e-commerce platforms such as OZON and the like make retail sales much easier and cheaper.

In cooperation with a similar Russian platform and using its infrastructure (warehouses and logistics), it is necessary to create a specialized platform for the retail sale of industrial components, with the optional possibility of creating chats or forums in which manufacturers and consumers, who they are, can communicate. In order to make this platform commercially viable, it is necessary to make it a place where universities and various state design bureaus can purchase everything necessary for their research and development activities, without any tenders and competitions! This, by the way, will greatly simplify the life of universities.

The second problem of the Kulibins is a modern technological base for the production of their products, where can I get it?

In my opinion, the solution to the problem of inventors' access to a modern technological base could be the creation of technology parks equipped with advanced equipment at technological universities. Such technoparks will allow students to gain skills in working with advanced equipment in the process of training and practical work.

On a commercial basis, as a support measure for small businesses, this equipment can also be used by entrepreneurs for small-scale production. And inventors can use it for free (the principles of interaction between the inventor and the university need to be worked out in order to create the prerequisites and motivation for their close cooperation).

Ecosystem


As a result, a certain ecosystem should appear in which a creative person can realize his plan without being too distracted by solving organizational issues. At "idea fairs" under the auspices of sponsors or some ministry, inventors should be able to present the results of their labors. The most interesting projects as a prize can be put into production in a limited batch at the expense of the state, subject to the presence of a consumer or distributor. This should stimulate the start-up movement in Russia.

Another nuance with high-tech companies that is important not to lose sight of.

In the microelectronics industry, companies are divided into two types: they are “manufacturers”, i.e. companies that manufacture gadgets, and “developers” are companies that develop a gadget, own a brand and, in fact, are engaged in their implementation. There are practically no "manufacturers" in Russia, but there seem to be "developers".

“Developers”, being in Russia, are engaged in the design of high-tech products and the implementation of their developments, including on the Russian market, and they order the production of their products from “manufacturers” in Taiwan, China, etc. This is a normal world practice.

It is important that Russian "developers", working on the Russian market, enjoy all the advantages of Russian manufacturers, at least the import of their products into Russia should be duty-free. The government should involve these companies in projects where their products are in demand, and, just like Russian manufacturers, purchase their products (tablets, for example) at the expense of the budget, in order to transform Russia.

The purpose of this work is to ensure the growth of "developer" companies to the volumes that will allow here, in Russia, to create an economically viable production of gadgets (tablets, smartphones, etc.) just for the needs of Russian "developers".

2.0 industrialization


The industrialization of the USSR in the 30s was not carried out at the expense of private investments and market approaches, it was carried out thanks to the state industrial policy and large-scale investments in the creation of various industries. Today we must do the same. In my opinion, The robotics industry is the most efficient point of capital investment, which gives the maximum return on each ruble invested for the development of the economy and the transformation of Russia into a high-tech power.

In the USSR, investments in industrialization were aimed at increasing the production of steel, the production of tractors, combines, etc.; today, state investments in Russian producers are investments in the tax base. With a competent approach and the right investments, all costs should be returned to the state in the form of taxes within a few years, while the standard of living of the population will significantly increase due to increased productivity.

And the society itself will be transformed due to the growth of the general level of education of the population. The future high-tech Russian army will not have problems with recruits who can communicate with neural networks and who know programming languages.
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  1. +1
    28 January 2023 06: 02
    I have two hands for this. But our entrepreneurs have not yet learned to look one step ahead. They are satisfied with what they have. Taking advantage of the fact that we have cheap labor, they will be content with what they have. Foreigners, knowing our specifics, did not use robots at car factories. The deterioration of demographics will help correct this situation. But, as always, first of all, it is necessary to reformat consciousness.
    1. +8
      28 January 2023 09: 43
      huge funds that it's time to print for a massive task!

      —-There is no one to entrust these funds, because there is no one to ask for the result. Therefore, they are afraid - they will give money, but they will receive Skolkovo or Rosnano.
      1. +7
        28 January 2023 10: 22
        Quote: Mikhail Drabkin
        Therefore, they are afraid - they will give money, but they will receive Skolkovo or Rosnano

        I wonder who is afraid of it? Who are these people who have power and money and who care for Russia? Who are these statesmen patriots? Be kind, open them to us who do not understand.
        1. +4
          28 January 2023 22: 13
          In creative excitement, the Author did not write a word about the oligarchic non-humans who really now determine our existence. And also the non-existence of many. What are they afraid of? As long as they have a looker and not one.
      2. +7
        28 January 2023 13: 37
        Quote: Mikhail Drabkin
        No one to entrust these funds,

        Like no one? And what about the thousands of effective managers, so carefully nurtured in the Soviet ruins...
    2. +1
      29 January 2023 17: 49
      "Russia is not capable of producing modern microelectronics." "... in its essence - the truth, but at the heart of these problems is still a weak and in many respects dependent, primarily on Western technologies, industry!". Does the author call for "repeating the backs" of Western microelectronics? Not seeing or not realizing that she comes to a standstill. There is no need to chase the number of chips on a silicon wafer, the record-breaking nanometers of the size of a transistor structure. It's pointless. We need to look for new technologies, new materials, a new construction of the AI ​​crystal. On this path, Russia, with the ingenuity and openness of its population, is quite capable of going far ahead in its development, overtaking the West. For example, using rotary automatic lines, well studied and developed in the USSR, to make each AI crystal separately, and not in a "collective" plate according to the old technology. If there are hundreds of thousands of the same type of technological elements in the rotary line, this will solve the problem of mass production, quality, uniqueness of products, AI crystals, as well as production flexibility. Perhaps there may be other options. It is necessary to search, to get out of the impasse of the old technology.
      1. +1
        31 January 2023 07: 13
        In Russia, at present, there seem to be three or four world-class design centers. These are those who design microprocessors and microcontrollers. If each design center is given the production of microcircuits based on rotary lines, then they will be able to design and produce finished products in the form of COC, a system on a chip. In fact, SoK is the electronic "brains" of any modern technology. In conjunction, the design center - the production of SoK, eliminates the superfluous, intermediate link, like a Taiwanese factory for the production of microcircuits. Rotary production of microcircuits involves a multilayer crystal, where each layer can have a unique circuit or the same type with other layers, at the discretion of the developer (system engineer). Layers are made using established, reliable 90nm technology. Collected in one SoC crystal, they are able to perform any multifunctional work now and in the foreseeable future.
    3. 0
      15 February 2023 22: 22
      As long as there are no SAME Chinese punishments for corruption, embezzlement and the creation of organized crime groups in Russia, then no new technologies and Skolkovo will help the Russian economy ... Until a new national ideology and philosophy is created in Russia from scratch (an analogue of Chinese Confucianism ...) , which will organically complement Orthodox Christianity, then Skolkovo and new technologies will be USELESS .... Until Russia returns and rehabilitates EVERYTHING GOOD, GOOD and USEFUL that was under the USSR and under Socialism - new ideas will be like water into the sand... Wake up and wake up at last...
  2. +15
    28 January 2023 06: 15
    The Russian businessman is not Henry Ford. Previously, his goals were: to cut down the dough and buy an apartment or a cool foreign car. Like the Bolsheviks: "the minimum program." And then dump on the West:: "program-maximum".

    Now that the "foundations of life goals" have been shaken, by inertia it will hold on to the first two. He doesn't need anything else, go all, as they say, ... Through the forest.

    He will recruit cheap Tajiks to work, kick the Russians out with a kick in the ass, and in the end, these Tajiks will force him out of business as well ..... Finale, curtain. Hurrah, comrades!
  3. +8
    28 January 2023 06: 40
    What the author writes about should have been done yesterday, 30 years ago. Today, it’s not too late, but the situation is rather complicated ..
    1. +5
      28 January 2023 08: 57
      True, but there is one more catch. Robotization is of great importance in the production of mass products. And what do we mass-produce? Food? samples. We need mass production of fairly complex products. But this is a big problem.
      1. +1
        28 January 2023 09: 58
        It is necessary and possible to automate everything, a lot of workshops where something is packed, put packing equipment, in workshops where small-scale something is produced, put 3D printers for the manufacture of plastic products, put manipulators where you need to regularly shift something. In fact, small-scale production will get a good economic effect due to cost reduction.
        1. +5
          28 January 2023 17: 48
          Quote: Eroma
          put 3D printers for the manufacture of plastic products

          Can you imagine the cost of such products? :))))
          1. +2
            28 January 2023 19: 16
            And what about cost? Making a mold and using a press, for which you need literally in pieces, is it cheaper? hi
            1. +1
              28 January 2023 22: 57
              Quote: Eroma
              Making a mold and using a press, for which you need literally in pieces, is it cheaper?

              As a rule - yes. That is, even the manufacture of not the parts themselves, but molds for the subsequent casting of parts on 3D printers is far from always justified.
      2. +3
        28 January 2023 20: 53
        There is one more "hook", in Soviet times, (70-80) years, every little enterprise had a laboratory or department of NOT (scientific organization of labor). Which were engaged, including, automation and robotization of production. It happened that these "robots", automatic manipulators, lay in heaps in the laboratory: they did not know where to adapt them, to what place to put them, but the plan descended from above. Perhaps one of the reasons for the collapse of the Soviet economy was the lack of interest of a creative worker (design engineer, researcher, adjuster ...) in the final results of his work. Material, first of all.
        1. +1
          28 January 2023 21: 47
          Quote: SavranP
          automatic manipulators were lying in heaps in the laboratory: they did not know where to adapt them, to what place to put them, but the plan descended from above.

          With a bureaucratic approach, when there is production, for the sake of production, it will be so! We already have an industry, albeit in its infancy, but people are already making money in it; they have already found niches for themselves, which means there is a need for Russia! It is necessary to allocate money to cover the needs of those enterprises that existing manufacturers rely on!
          I can assure you that the companies that started producing robots in Russia have created robots for the niches available to them today, but they definitely have plans to develop other sectors of the economy after the company grows to a certain size. The state as a customer accelerates the growth of these companies many times over, people there already know what to do! You just need to help them, and in the process it will be seen how to move forward. Only, in order to achieve significant results, you need to set a large-scale task, then even if you fail to complete this task, the result will still be impressive bully
        2. +1
          28 January 2023 22: 58
          It's not like that... There was some interest, but no one wanted to introduce it.
      3. +2
        28 January 2023 21: 05
        True, but there is one more catch. Robotization is of great importance in the production of mass products. And what do we mass-produce?

        So the Russian Federation buys a lot of imported goods.
        So why not replace them with your own?
        For example, Russia buys a lot of laptops every year.

        According to M.Video-Eldorado, in 2020, Russians purchased about 3,1 million laptops worth 140 billion rubles,
        https://www.cnews.ru/news/line/2021-01-20_v_2020_godu_rossiyane_priobreli

        Here are 3 million laptops can be done with robots? Can.
        https://youtu.be/ij_AMoQcZFU

        Or agriculture.
        tomatoes.
        Does the RF buy a lot of tomatoes?
        But build greenhouses. + automate.
        + there are robots for picking vegetables.
        https://youtu.be/-wl2fCZ0GxE
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAHJr-DtRoQ

        Engineering?
        As far as I know, there are not enough cars in the Russian Federation.
        Well, let the robots make cars.
  4. +9
    28 January 2023 06: 42
    We take the success story of China, Singapore, Taiwan, etc.: the governments of these countries were able to attract foreign investment to the country,
    Why should our government be criticized? For dreams to repeat the path of these countries! The economic bloc of the government is dreaming and working to bring foreign manufacturers to Russia, who will produce something interesting for us to export abroad.

    Russia is considered a dangerous country for doing business. There is such an expression "to squeeze out business" and it is applicable here.
    1. +2
      28 January 2023 09: 47
      Despite the dangers, business exists in the country! Problems need to be solved, and the business that exists needs to be developed
      1. +8
        28 January 2023 10: 26
        Quote: Eroma
        Despite the dangers, business exists in the country!

        exists .. mostly small - it is not particularly needed by "those who want to eat" .. if you want to go to the middle level, there should be "protection" or you will be left with nothing .. so I know a lot of people who prefer 3 small ones, to one medium one - from them this concept and heard..
        therefore, the beginning of any reforms should be with equality (at least more or less, at least "pepper" - a year, the usual -3, but not like that - one 8, the other went home) of all before the law - then the rest ...
        1. -1
          28 January 2023 11: 32
          Quote: Level 2 Advisor
          prefers 3 small ones, one medium one - I heard this concept from them ..

          Most likely we are talking about splitting up the business, for tax reporting, in fact this is one production or what they do. All these desks work as a single enterprise.
          1. +4
            28 January 2023 13: 17
            yes it is .. both for the tax and not to attract attention with income ..
  5. +9
    28 January 2023 06: 43
    The society of the future”, how it should look, and proceed not from economic expediency, but from the production efficiency of each person.

    Almost socialism.
    But the USSR was not destroyed for that, not for that ...
    1. +6
      28 January 2023 07: 57
      hi
      Almost socialism.
      communism, socialism, only a step in the transition from capitalism to communism .. smile
    2. -4
      28 January 2023 11: 02
      No socialism, the article is all about capitalism hi
      The money struck by the state for the purchase of equipment will bring profit to the manufacturer, he will pay taxes on profits. Enterprises that have received equipment will increase their profitability, which is also a plus for taxes. A new market will be formed, in which new companies will begin to operate, which will also begin to pay taxes!
      Those. the state is actually investing money in the growth of the tax base! bully
      1. +4
        28 January 2023 16: 05
        Quote: Eroma
        Enterprises that receive equipment will increase their profitability


        Quote: Eroma
        for the purchase of equipment will bring profit to the manufacturer, he will pay income taxes

        If everything were so simple, then why then did the largest corporations transfer, transfer and will transfer their production to countries with an excess of cheap and poorly educated labor?
        Why are Japanese high-performance robots still outperforming giant plants/factories with thousands of employees in China/Indonesia/India/Bangladesh..?
        1. 0
          28 January 2023 19: 27
          That's when we develop our industry to the level of Japanese industry, then it will be clear why they transfer production to other countries!
          TSMC, in your opinion, has become the largest microchip manufacturer in Taiwan because of cheap labor? Probably the chips are packed by hand and it takes a lot of people to pack millions of chips? This explains the economic benefit laughing
          1. 0
            30 January 2023 09: 58
            Something the author is somehow strange from stating the fact "there is no iron of his own" goes straight to dreams of a bright future with robots.
            Not only that, but also declaring that there is a lot of money. But the problem with "iron" is that it will not be born in the desert, even if everything is filled with gold rubles. The development of technology works differently. And the path to the heights of these technologies will take us decades, despite the fact that the "white colonialists" will go far ahead during this time.
            There are two options for further development - still try to catch up and overtake (difficult for a long time expensive) or choose a completely different vector - optical / quantum / bio-computing (difficult for a long time expensive indefinitely), where in theory it is possible to reach another technological level, immediately nullifying all previous achievements of the industry. What to choose is another question.
            1. +2
              30 January 2023 12: 10
              Technological development options may be different, but no one will invest in them and invest in the creation of industries until there is an economic justification for all these investments! Therefore, it is necessary to create a market that can consume products in volumes that make it profitable to develop and manufacture high-tech products. This is the essence of the article. And how the goal will be achieved, parallel imports, industrial espionage, or brilliant people, this is already a technical question
              1. 0
                30 January 2023 12: 50
                Parallel imports, and even industrial espionage, as practice has shown, is a way to nowhere without mastering key technologies, something like a modern cargo cult laughing
                It is necessary to start with a full-fledged education and fundamental science, slowly and heavily coming to the quintessence - technology.
                And you are talking about markets and consumers, and even in our realities. Isolated self-development in a market of 150 million or less consumers is impossible by definition. And therefore, we will have to start with the restoration of demographics. The first sign that Russia has any chances in this field will be a population of 300 million people, which will allow building the very self-sustaining domestic market. But even this is not a guarantee, we need to look at what will happen to China after the sanctions, will its huge domestic market be enough to at least maintain what has been achieved? Not really, IMHO.
                1. 0
                  30 January 2023 14: 12
                  Quote: vadimtt
                  Isolated self-development in a market of 150 million or less consumers is impossible by definition. And therefore, we will have to start with the restoration of demographics. The first sign that Russia has any chances in this field will be a population of 300 million people, which will allow building the very self-sustaining domestic market.

                  Up to 300 million people is a lot of work! Many people would love to do it! laughing but then you need to keep the result of your work on something! lol with low labor productivity, this is problematic feel
                  Foreign policy should form such a market! And there is a foreign market that we can dominate! Only we need to start growing our producers so that they are able to create products at least interesting for foreign markets and continue to be able to compete in foreign markets. Own market, this is the stove from which the dance comes wink
                2. 0
                  31 January 2023 17: 18
                  Quote: vadimtt
                  Isolated self-development in a market of 150 million or less consumers is impossible by definition

                  North Korea - 26 million, Iran - 86 million, Belarus - 9 million, Kazakhstan - 19 million ... Together with Russia 290 million human. If you organize a single market, then you can develop yourself.
        2. +1
          28 January 2023 21: 10
          Why are Japanese high-performance robots still outperforming giant plants/factories with thousands of employees in China/Indonesia/India/Bangladesh..?

          Because robots require a lot of energy. If there are many.
          Japan has little energy. Yes
          Japan will not pull.
          But in Russia there is a lot of energy.
          For the Russian Federation, robotization will bring many benefits. bully
          1. +1
            1 February 2023 00: 55
            stelltok (tokstell). January 28, 2023 21:10 - "... Robotization will bring many benefits to the Russian Federation..."


            Replace millions of incoming migrants. am well Very hardworking in the field of Russian social freebies bully .
            And to ensure the development and multiplication of their indigenous peoples both in education and in demography. love
  6. +4
    28 January 2023 08: 32
    comparison of the USSR of the 30s with the Russian Federation from the point of view - namely industry and economy- it makes no sense, since in common - only the capital and part of the territory, well, the fact that the majority of citizens are Russian .. there is nothing more in common .. and the world situation, to put it mildly, is different .. but! in general, the situation is much better than the 30s - at the present time, so the push and direction of development is even easier to do, there would be a desire from those who can do it .. but based on the fact that people rule - the same as previous decades , I personally don’t believe in a change of course .. I have never seen people change dramatically after 40k ..
    1. +6
      28 January 2023 16: 30
      Perhaps you did not study the situation in the USSR of those times well enough? The Bolsheviks began not only with the GOELRO, automobile, tractor and other plants, factories, but with Likbez, workers' schools and science. They managed to organize mass production of engineers, technicians and scientists. On this basis, the USSR won the Second World War and withstood the nuclear missile race. Look at the biographies of the creators of Soviet military equipment (30-40), the creators of Soviet nuclear weapons, tactical nuclear weapons, rocket and space technology, the vast majority graduated from Soviet universities.
      1. +1
        28 January 2023 20: 16
        Your answer is absolutely not opposed to mine and there is absolute truth in your answer .. but, I'm talking about the initial conditions in the situation, and not about how to solve it in the 30s ..
        1. +3
          29 January 2023 11: 32
          I agree with you. Most likely, I was not able to articulate my thoughts clearly enough. I meant that electrification, the construction of factories, factories - industrialization - of course, is very important, but several states have already passed this way. An example of how and how to carry out industrialization, English, German, French was before my eyes. The desperate situation of the Bolsheviks, in my opinion, consisted in the fact that they were not going to get power so early, power came to them quite unexpectedly for themselves. Power in a country where less than half of the population had four classes of a parochial school. Most were simply illiterate, unable to read or write. Yes, there were hundreds of thousands of people who graduated from vocational schools, gymnasiums, and seminaries. But the engineers who graduated from the universities of the Russian Empire, there were one and a half to two thousand a year maximum. After the revolution, engineers, technicians, and researchers needed tens of thousands a year or more. Here the Bolsheviks were able to perform a miracle, otherwise I will not say, they replaced the elite training of selected specialists (ITR) with the mass production of engineers, technicians, and researchers. Yes, the level of graduates fell somewhat, compared with pre-revolutionary ones, but the mass character gave a result, many talents were able to get an education. At present, Russia also needs not to copy Western experience, which seems to have reached a dead end, but to find its own way, to perform another miracle.
    2. +1
      1 February 2023 01: 45
      level 2 advisor (Nikolay). January 28, 2023 08:32. - "... a comparison of the USSR of the 30s with the Russian Federation from the point of view - namely, industry and the economy - does not make sense, since there is only the capital and part of the territory in common, and the fact that the majority of citizens are Russian .. there is nothing more in common .. and the world situation, to put it mildly, is different ... "

      The complete profanation of the question you raised is admirable:
      - there "to have time to run in 10 years. what the imperialists went through in 100 .. OTHERWISE they will crush and destroy." said 10 years before the Second World War after WW1 and the Civil. With a broken-down economy and industry .. What is "excellent" in today's Russia with the collapse of the USSR and the collapse of everything that was NOT useful to the United States and partners? Total.
      - then the question of the revival of science. industry. production in the first place means of production. Training of OWN specialists. Hthen now there are other problems after the reforms of the torches of democracy from the late 80s and on the rise in the 90s?
      - is the world situation different? belay вDid you at least study at school, my friend? More like Soros. bully What then Russia (USSR) in the dreams and aspirations of the "partners" she was seen forever and with white slippers. What is now. am True now. thanks USSR. at worst, you can wish the "Perimeter" to successfully "shoot back". And partnerpm slowly "evaporate". soldier
      - yours - "... the present time, so the impetus and direction of development is even easier to do, it would be desirable for those who can do it .. but based on the fact that people rule - the same as previous decades, in shift course - I personally do not believe .. "then there were also problems. but then and now people of "long will" and the "partners have designated" an incentive - the destruction of Russia and all the indigenous people on it. I think more than enough. As well as then, there are more than enough enemies and pests for at least sabotage (the names are even suitable). And they are very stimulated from ideology to the loss of "food base". bully
      Problem added:
      - ideology and morality.
      --decomposition and "goal setting" in decision-making centers - Chubais. Kudrin. Nabiulina. Siluanov. for a change, read Glazyev and Delyagin. Then such a "specialist" would at best be sent to the "White Sea Canal" by a senior shovel...and now the country depends on this ... crying
      - economists with knowledge (experience from the USSR through the reforms of the 90s and with analysis and analytics of world successful experience is still enough. Read - Glazyev. Delyagin. Krichevsky. The book "Crystal of Growth..." by Galushko and ..... request What are we waiting for? "Children of "Gaidar. Chubais. Kurdin - the entire economic bloc from Nabiulina and Manturov is entirely "specialists" according to the textbooks of Soros and the USA for the colonies .. bully
      Incl. the road will be cleared by the walking good . while the question is in the personality in history who will be the first to head the process belay - Kerensky. Nicholas 2. Khrushchev. Gorbachev. EBN negative or a person of the level of the beginning of the USSR - so that "from the plow to the atomic bomb ...". good Yes, guests at home. and then. they will "help" so much that the West will not do so much. see 31.01.2023/06/00. 712946:XNUMX KNOCKOUT GAME: THERE IS NO PLACE FOR RUSSIANS IN RUSSIA - https://TSARGRAD.TV/INVESTIGATIONS/IGRA-NA-VYSHIBANIE-RUSSKIM-V-ROSSII-MESTA-NE-HVATIT_XNUMX
      Indigenous Russia (RSFSR - now the Russian Federation) basically kept the rest in the USSR (RI) and solved its problems on its own, incl. before WWII and after. Strangers will not become their own. unit maximum. who blood on the CBO confirmed the citizenship of the Russian Federation. soldier The rest solve personal problems and the Russian Federation to them to the fan. bully Gone are the generations of the Second World War and those who grew up in the SSR or are leaving. hi
  7. +9
    28 January 2023 08: 47
    A possible way to stimulate the development of high-tech industries in Russia by creating a huge domestic market for high-tech equipment in the Russian Federation with the help of public investment


    Possible? Possible! BUT WHY? It's so easy to continue to pump oil and gas and cut the budget formed by their exports. Why take your ass off the chair while people continue to hawk such a policy? Are we going to a dead end? So it is WE we will reach a dead end with our silence and inertia, and they all have alternate airfields on a hillock.
  8. +2
    28 January 2023 08: 55
    Why are there no companies in Russia comparable to Samsung, Huawei, Apple, and why is our vast country not a major high-tech manufacturer?

    The answer is banal: the production of mass high-tech products and microelectronics, including microchips, is not economically profitable in Russia, there is simply no domestic market for these products!

    Let's take the success story of China, Singapore, Taiwan, etc.: the governments of these countries were able to attract foreign investment to the country, the meaning of which was to build enterprises based on a modern industrial base, capable of producing quality products, which, thanks to local conditions, had a lower cost , compared with those produced in the West, and the products of these enterprises were intended for sale in the Western market!


    The author, be more consistent, do not contradict yourself. Either you talk about the domestic market as a necessary condition for the development of high-tech, but still about the external market, as a priority for the sale of such products.

    The governments of these countries were able to attract foreign (primarily American) investments primarily because the real American elite gave it the go-ahead, and political and strategic considerations also played a role here. We have always been regarded as adversaries, and therefore such a path is ordered for us, no matter how we demonstrate our friendliness to the West.
    In addition, we are obviously not so attractive for Western investments due to the geographical and climatic features of our country.
    1. -1
      28 January 2023 10: 06
      There are no contradictions: at the beginning it is stated that the world market does not need our high-tech, therefore, logically, we can only rely on the domestic market, and it is scanty! Hence the idea that you need to shake it on your own
      1. +2
        28 January 2023 12: 35
        we can only count on the domestic market, and it is scanty!
        The markets of Latin America and Magreb are open to Russian goods. The population there (I spoke personally with them) looks at Russia without negativity - in their eyes it is a highly developed European state, no worse than Germany or Sweden ..
        1. 0
          28 January 2023 14: 08
          Quote: Bolt Cutter
          The markets of Latin America and Magreb are open to Russian goods.

          Markets are open, but for competitive products: price and quality! If you are an importer, then by definition you cannot compete with your supplier in other markets request and to develop a foreign market, you need money (service, marketing), only strong companies are capable of this. Therefore, you need to shake up your own market, grow your own producers on it, and they are already developing independently to master other people's markets
  9. +2
    28 January 2023 09: 00
    Quote: Level 2 Advisor
    comparing the USSR of the 30s with the Russian Federation from the point of view - namely, industry and the economy - does not make sense, since there is only the capital and part of the territory in common, and the fact that most citizens are Russian .. there is nothing more in common .. and the world situation, to put it mildly speaking, another .. but! in general, the situation is much better than the 30s - at present,


    At present, the world situation for us is MUCH worse than in the 30s, and the situation inside our country is also worse in some respects (especially in terms of demographics and labor resources).
    1. +2
      28 January 2023 09: 33
      about straight lot worse, I’m not sure (Khasan, Halkin-gol, Spain, the Polish campaign, the Finnish war, the threat of war with Hitler), also not festive and joyful events, and this against the background of the fact that the USSR was relatively weaker than the Russian Federation in those years (in the early 30s ).. but the other one is unambiguous, therefore the comparison is wrong with the USSR .. about demography and labor resources - I certainly agree ..
      1. +1
        28 January 2023 10: 12
        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
        about demography and labor resources - I certainly agree ..

        Hence the idea to replace people with machines! We must learn to use the fruits of technological progress to solve problems
      2. -1
        28 January 2023 20: 21
        You can remember how American specialists built factories and other infrastructure in the USSR in the 30s. How the USSR essentially bought a ready-made automobile plant in a NATO country, brought it to itself and launched production. Is this possible now? I don't think the situation is better now.
        1. +1
          29 January 2023 08: 06
          in the early 30s there wasn’t - nothing, almost everything was destroyed .. but now there is - albeit often not the newest + then, to sell resources for money, there were fewer opportunities and resources .. this is the main difference .. plus You can now buy technologies from many more people than then .. so, now there are really more opportunities, well, or at least they are also there, if you wish ..
  10. +3
    28 January 2023 09: 05
    I repeat: at the first stage of robotization, we do not invent anything. We are loading, or rather, rebooting, the existing production capacities of Russian robot manufacturers, introducing the robots they have already created at industrial enterprises already operating in Russia.


    The key parameter is the cost of production. And if it turns out that the labor of industrial robots (taking into account all factors, their production, maintenance, etc.) turns out to be more expensive than the labor of "living biorobots" with a salary of 500-800 dollars per month? What then?
    1. -1
      28 January 2023 10: 37
      The experience of China shows the great profitability of mechanization, where biorobots were even cheaper!
      And most importantly, today there is a huge shortage of specialists and those who want to be turners, etc. not particularly observed, and most importantly, those who want to finish their qualifications at their own expense, too. We need technical solutions that allow the programmer to carve parts wink
      Yes, and biorobots are the human factor squared! Nerves need iron lol
      1. -1
        29 January 2023 14: 39
        The experience of China, and indeed of all developed countries (Japan, South Korea, Germany, well, except for the USA, probably) just shows that it is impossible to get out on one domestic market, so all countries stimulate exports. Considering that in those foreign markets where we still have access everything is already occupied by China, with which we cannot physically compete, all this talk about the development of the domestic market looks too naive.
    2. +1
      28 January 2023 21: 37
      The key parameter is the cost of production. And if it turns out that the labor of industrial robots (taking into account all factors, their production, maintenance, etc.) turns out to be more expensive than the labor of "living biorobots" with a salary of 500-800 dollars per month? What then?

      1) So people are not enough.
      Therefore, robotization is a necessary measure.
  11. +10
    28 January 2023 09: 10
    All of these are good wishes.
    Everything will be as usual.
    Money will be stolen, there will be no Industrialization 2.0.

    The reasons:
    Former leadership. negative selection. Nepotism and corruption. There is no domestic or foreign market. There are no qualified personnel. Etc.

    And good wishes can be thrown as much as you like.
    But remember that right at this time the "real power" goes bankrupt and ruins enterprises and directions (there were direct articles on VO, but there are much more of this in the specialized media), withdraws money to the emirates, and to children directly to NATO, and continues to supply NATO with oil (and they process it for the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Ukraine)
    1. +3
      28 January 2023 12: 21
      In general, yes.
      It is strange to start practicing, for example, boxing without getting out of a long-term binge.
  12. +5
    28 January 2023 09: 34
    It's just fantastic. It will never happen because it never will. There will be a Caucasian-Tajik emirate. Prayer and Fight. For the Slavic population, there are few fairy tales about a bright future from grandfather.
  13. +6
    28 January 2023 11: 21
    The author apparently did not study in a Soviet school.

    And he does not know that the success of a social cause, a movement (and the fact that he is talking about a progressive social movement, it may be obvious to me, but not to the author) - depends on a combination of objective and subjective factors. The author talks only about the objective side.

    But the ever-memorable Gorbachev "at the time of it" in 1985 correctly said: "our natural wealth has corrupted us." Subjectively, the Russian people are corrupted even more today.

    There is such an owl movie "Good Hour" produced, it seems, in 1958. There, one of the heroines says to her son "study, otherwise you will get to the factory."

    Today they say "study to get into a commercial bank."
    In the country of workers and peasants, no one wanted to be a worker and peasant; today they don't want to be scientists either. And they only want to be rich idlers

    This is a cover. The lid of the coffin in which the dead society lies. And there are no social movements, except for the swarming of worms, thieves and bandits, there are no

    We often say that the fish rots from the head. But she rots so much if she died even earlier !!
  14. mz
    +1
    28 January 2023 11: 39
    There is such a sad economic joke (approximately): with the free development of capitalism, automation will go along the path of producing robots that will drive workers with a whip so that they work better.
    1. 0
      30 January 2023 12: 17
      As for the fact that robots will whip it, it is unlikely, but the likelihood that neural networks will monitor how the employee performs job descriptions is quite real laughing
  15. +1
    28 January 2023 11: 48
    And the society itself will be transformed due to the growth of the general level of education of the population.
    Once Karl Marx believed that with the growth of labor productivity, a person will spend his time on self-improvement and creativity. It turned out that a person drinks too much, drugs and degrades without difficulty and problems. With full robotization of the whole country, where to look for a job? there will be, of course, the chosen ones - eggheads, carriers of secrets, and there will be excess biological mass again ...
    I offer a different type of development - a free 3D printer for every home! and the state develops and provides various printheads and materials. to print FSE on them! from clothes to soap dishes and robots.
    1. +2
      28 January 2023 13: 28
      Not Marx and Engels, but the science fiction writer Efremov and a lot of intellectuals-stupid Tsar Nikita in the USSR.

      Marx even wrote in verse:
      "Life is decay,
      Death forever.
      Our aspirations
      Need will give birth ... .. "
      And there is no need to teach Marx the realities of life from your stove or sofa. He knew her better than you.

      Whatever the society, it will need something in any case. For example, in people who know how to create and maintain the operation of robots. Robots will expand the field of human activity, and it is endless.

      I have already written a remark here that the Russian entrepreneur differs from Henry Ford in that Ford gave work to the masses of the people, opening up a new industry. And the fate of the Russian is to fill his belly, screw up the girls and relax .....


      Both Marx and Engels and Lenin wrote that power should and will be in the hands of those who produce material goods, even if they do not make up the majority.

      And for this, first of all, a NEW DEMOCRACY is needed - an elected government that does not write papers, but manages money and gives orders to the military and police ... This was called "All power to the Soviets."

      But in a society with the psychology of serfs, this is unthinkable, a utopia. This is not a utopia - just plunder your country.
      1. 0
        28 January 2023 15: 14
        Quote: ivan2022
        Whatever the society, it will need something in any case. For example, in people who know how to create and maintain the operation of robots. Robots will expand the field of human activity, and it is endless.

        Absolutely agree drinks
  16. +1
    28 January 2023 13: 27
    Special thanks to Chubais (who is now frolicking in Britain): "we will sell raw materials, and we will buy everything else." How should it have been? Better Galushka A.S. no one described it. Therefore, there is nothing to creak your brains here!
  17. +1
    28 January 2023 13: 49
    Quote: Eroma
    There are no contradictions: at the beginning it is stated that the world market does not need our high-tech, therefore, logically, we can only rely on the domestic market, and it is scanty! Hence the idea that you need to shake it on your own


    Initially, it was pointed out that some other countries focused on foreign markets and only then began to develop their own, which is logical.
    Attracting foreign capital is possible due to the low cost of local labor (which also means low effective demand). As high-tech production develops, both the domestic market and the demand for such products will grow, which can not only be exported, but also consumed by ourselves.

    It makes no sense to put the cart before the horse: as long as we are tied to the raw material trough, it will be impossible to "rock" the domestic market. At least market methods.
    In order for the domestic market to consume in sufficient (for the profitability of production) volume of a deliberately more expensive domestic high-tech product, it is necessary to ensure a very high solvency of its own population. In the conditions of "raw material trough" it is impossible in principle.

    The only way to develop high-tech in our country is to use non-market, administrative-command stimulation of such industries (turning a blind eye to their unprofitability at an early stage).
    The development of the economy as a whole in our country, which is different from the model of compratodor capitalism, is possible only if the notorious "profit" is given priority in the short term, as the main engine of economic processes.
    1. 0
      28 January 2023 14: 59
      There is no need to create unprofitable enterprises! There are already profitable enterprises, they have found their niches in the Russian market. Those. there are industries in Russia that have a need for robots, but they either do not think about the need or cannot afford it. Those. for the growth of the market of robots made in Russia, you just need to drive money from the industry, there will be an excellent result right away! good further, more and more interesting, with the growth of production, our robot manufacturers themselves, without the participation of the state, will be able to master the world market by generating technologies and introducing them into our lives! In this plan
  18. +2
    28 January 2023 13: 54
    Quote: Eroma
    The experience of China shows the great profitability of mechanization, where biorobots were even cheaper!


    Yes. And it was precisely when they were cheap that the pace of economic development in the PRC was especially high.
    When the cost of labor began to rise in China (at present, skilled workers in China have salaries even higher than those in Russia according to the PPP calculation), there was a trend towards a decrease in growth rates and the flight of capital to other countries.
    China is not a very good example for us. In terms of the capacity of the domestic market, the PRC is second only to the United States (in some respects it is already superior). We are in a different weight category, alas.
    1. 0
      28 January 2023 14: 20
      Development from zero always looks more enchanting than development from the limits of possibilities!
      Today, the Chinese economy may have reached a certain limit in some sectors and there are few opportunities for growth! As they say, we would have their problems laughing
      But the very fact of progress in China's technology is a subject for praise.
  19. +1
    28 January 2023 14: 00
    Quote: Level 2 Advisor
    about it’s much worse, I’m not sure (Khasan, Halkin-gol, Spain, the Polish campaign, the Finnish war, the threat of war with Hitler), also not festive and joyful events, and this against the background of the fact that the USSR was relatively weaker than the Russian Federation in those years ( in the early 30s) .. but the other one is unequivocal, therefore the comparison is wrong with the USSR .. about demography and labor resources - I certainly agree ..


    Your right to disagree.
    But then the West was not united and so opposed to us. The USSR could maneuver between different poles ... it was possible to attract both American capital (who built Magnitka and ChTZ for us?) And German capital (even cooperating in the military-technical sphere). They even sold us samples of Western weapons and trained our pilots (in Lipetsk). Is this possible in modern conditions, when almost the entire West has embarked on a "policy of abolishing Russia"?
    That's it. Our only plus in modern conditions is nuclear weapons.
  20. 0
    28 January 2023 14: 20
    Quote: ivan2022
    Not Marx and Engels, but the science fiction writer Efremov and a lot of intellectuals-stupid Tsar Nikita in the USSR.

    Marx even wrote in verse:
    "Life is decay,
    Death forever.
    Our aspirations
    Need will give birth ... .. "
    And there is no need to teach Marx the realities of life from your stove or sofa. He knew her better than you.

    ... But in a society with the psychology of serfs, this is unthinkable, a utopia. This is not a utopia - just plunder your country.

    Contradiction in Marx: life is corruption. Decay is only in the dead, life and decay are incompatible.
    "Death forever", death is only a transition to eternity, i.e. it does not exist forever and the time will come, there will be no death, therefore we even have the word "Resurrection" in the calendar. Whatever the person, without knowing God, he cannot know the realities of life. And as for the psychology of serfs - if he wants to learn, then there will be another psychology. And so recently I see - workers are pouring salt on the sidewalk with a shovel, until they bring it from a gazelle, it falls everywhere, I ask: but it’s not easier to scatter it with your hand from a bucket - so where can I get a bucket! So buy, even with your own money, and speed up the process and quality. How much does a bucket and a pack of cigarettes cost, there is money for vodka, cigarettes
  21. +2
    28 January 2023 14: 31
    Quote: Max1995
    All of these are good wishes.
    Everything will be as usual.
    Money will be stolen, there will be no Industrialization 2.0.

    The reasons:
    Former leadership. negative selection. Nepotism and corruption. There is no domestic or foreign market. There are no qualified personnel. Etc.

    Former leadership - Merkel ruled for 16 years. Roosevelt - 4 terms
    Negative selection - what is it?
    Nepotism and corruption - Biden's son in Ukraine does what he wants, this is definitely nepotism
    There is no domestic or foreign market - again not true. Trade is both external and internal.
    There are no qualified personnel - but what about you? Well, etc.
  22. +1
    28 January 2023 15: 05
    Robotization is not a panacea. Automatic lines also require specialists in adjustment, maintenance, adjustment, and repair.
    Such specialists are in short supply, spare parts and components for robots also need to be produced somewhere. The owner of the enterprise is first of all a "specialist" in people. It is easier for him to hire people for manual labor, and to change inconvenient or demanding ones for more accommodating ones. And with specialists - everything is more difficult. We seem to have such a structure - NTTM. M.b. is it worth doing something similar without taking into account the age of the inventors?
    I remember there was such an exhibition - "Archimedes". It seems to be there now. M.b. to send the author's proposals there?
  23. +2
    28 January 2023 15: 11
    This should be understood as a run-in of the election program of the GDP?
  24. 0
    28 January 2023 16: 53
    SW. author, robotization is undoubtedly good. But you correctly noted that there is no robot market in Russia. And for it to appear, and for the economy to start growing, 2 conditions are necessary and sufficient.
    1. The supremacy and absolutism of the law. For EVERYONE, regardless of rank and title. Otherwise, nothing will happen. But this is not a fast process. People must gain confidence that none of those in power will take away what has been built and earned.
    2. By lowering prices for energy sources within the country, make Russian products more competitive on the world market and at the same time leave people with free money that they spent on paying for heating, fuel, and electricity.
    But these are unrealistic dreams. The goal of our rulers is to get money here and now. Stuff them into a small egg and give it to Western "partners".
  25. +2
    28 January 2023 16: 54
    What kind of robotization can we talk about with liberals in power? They can only bring migrants into the country by trains. And export "earned by overwork" to the West. The president himself allowed 1 million dollars a month. Despite the fact that there is a SVO.
  26. +2
    28 January 2023 17: 10
    To do this, you must first carry out the nationalization of all means of production and enterprises stolen during privatizations. Further, to completely close travel (for any purpose) for officials and members of their families to Western and unfriendly countries. No foreign holidays, treatment, training, etc., everything is only inside the Russian Federation or friendly countries. Further, to prohibit the entire population from opening accounts in foreign banks and withdrawing money there and offshore. If they want to live well, they will be forced to develop their own country. And finally, to prohibit the export of all resources to unfriendly countries, we will need these freed up resources for internal development. And now the oligarchs sell resources abroad and receive money, otherwise they will have nowhere to sell and they will simply be interested in increasing domestic consumption by developing their own production.
  27. +2
    28 January 2023 17: 14
    The nashalnik will command, eat sweets and drive around in a cool wheelbarrow, like his family-clan, and the smart one will work hard for a penny and robotize everything for their convenience. Idyll)) Maybe they will even give a lot of money for this business, maybe they won’t even “master” them)
  28. +3
    28 January 2023 17: 44
    And the society itself will be transformed due to the growth of the general level of education of the population. The future high-tech Russian army will not have problems with recruits who can communicate with neural networks and who know programming languages
    And there will be no problems with social justice and confidence in the future either?!
  29. +7
    28 January 2023 17: 46
    I see such a task: improving the well-being of citizens by eliminating low-skilled labor in Russia through automation and robotization of all processes.

    Actually, after that you can no longer read.
    The author, having taken an interesting topic, could not even understand the field of application of industrial robots. Robot janitor, huh...
    1. -2
      28 January 2023 20: 03
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Robot janitor, huh...

      What, yeah"? Do you know what will happen in the future? There is an opinion that in the future we will be on jetpacks, flying to visit each other! wink
      The meaning of what was written is not in the field of application of robots, the meaning is different, it is a pity that you did not read it hi
      1. +2
        28 January 2023 22: 49
        Quote: Eroma
        The meaning of what is written is not in the field of application of robots, the meaning is different

        Vadim, in what you wrote, alas ...
        Robot, this is not the target. He cannot be the target. A robot is a means to an end. One of many possible. And far from always, and not in everything, the robot is optimal. Do you know the joke about space pens? In space, a ballpoint pen will not write - there is no gravity. And you have to make records. What to do? The Americans established a small research institute at NASA, conducted research and came up with a pen that would write in space. They released 20 copies, the cost price, taking into account research and development, is 50 thousand dollars.
        Ours began to write with pencils.
        Well, you invest your fucking money. Make robotic janitors. Robots will clean the roads for you. It will cost a hell of a lot of money for the budgets of cities and regions, because the average salary of a janitor = 15 rubles. in the Russian Federation, and the operation of the robot will cost a multiple more. And what is the end result? Increasing taxes to support this army of robots. The Chinese, from whom you will buy microcircuits and so on for robot wipers, will thank you, of course. And we have an additional burden on business, a decrease in the purchasing power of the population.
        Come to my factory, offer robots, as in China. With a discount and with co-financing from the state. And I will politely send you through the forest, but you know why?
        Because the Chinese, in their automated factories, produce products not even at times, but an order of magnitude more than I do on mine. And if I produce the same amount, then I... can't sell them. And to produce the same volume as now, but on robots - sorry, but the plant will go bankrupt, because robots simply will never pay off on my volumes.
        And I’m already silent about the fact that today at the factories of the Russian Federation the production culture is such that any robot will go crazy with it. There was one plant ... in Yekaterinburg, which produced complex engineering products. So, when they began to transfer the drawings to the 3D design program, it turned out ... that it was impossible to assemble the product according to these drawings in principle. Because the parts will not fall into place, it is impossible to fix them during assembly, etc. etc. And the product has not been in production for the first year. Because people in the shops were still handy, they were finishing with a file ... It seems like a trifle, but you just don’t understand how much needs to be done to bring the plant to robotics. Here people are happily ruining ordinary CNC machines, and even roboline ...
        1. -2
          28 January 2023 23: 54
          Many people think like you, probably why we live the way we live laughing
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          here people are happily ruining ordinary CNC machines, and even roboline ...

          I am also not out of touch with life and I know very well what the human factor is! people not only ruin the CNC, the simplest things cannot be trusted! lol
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          it turned out ... that the product according to these drawings is impossible to assemble in principle. Because the parts will not fall into place, it is impossible to fix them during assembly, etc. and so on

          This is not a reason to abandon progress, this is a reason to take on the culture of production and design. The introduction of modern technologies helps a lot in this case. good
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          And if I produce the same amount, then I... can't sell them. And to produce the same volume as now, but on robots - sorry, but the plant will go bankrupt, because robots simply will never pay off on my volumes.

          Automation and robotization does not have to lead to an increase in production, you can simply reduce costs bully For example, by making production more compact, less labor-intensive (at the packing area, replace 6 packers with 1 machine, which, instead of 6 salaries and taxes on these RFPs, will spend energy in an amount comparable to 1 RFP). The freed up space or working time can be used to diversify the business. wink
          As for money, I am writing that this should be done at the expense of the state, which, by the way, does not know at all what to do with the money from the sale of our resources! so our financial reserves go off scale! it would be quite logical, with the money from the sale of resources, to develop their own production. good
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Well, you invest your fucking money. Make robotic janitors. Robots will clean the roads for you.

          Firstly, I'm not saying that let's drop everything now and come up with a robotic janitor! But in the future we will come to this also because with the development of production (not only robots, but in general) the need for people with qualifications will grow, the salary will grow and we will simply naturally come to the conclusion that people are ready to work as janitors, even for 200 You simply won't find thousands.
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          but you don’t understand how much needs to be done to bring the plant to robotics

          Be afraid of wolves, do not go into the forest! If you want to live better, then this is just a task that needs to be solved! Yes
          Why I paid attention to robots, I pointed out, because the synergy from investing in this industry is the maximum possible! In Russia now there is really no market for robots, with the help of orders we CREATE our own capacious market and simultaneously develop other markets, as a result, pouring money into one place, you push the entire economy into growth
          1. +2
            29 January 2023 04: 16
            Quote: Eroma
            Automation and robotization does not have to lead to an increase in production, you can simply reduce costs

            Never. Robotics is VERY expensive. And it can reduce costs only in very, very mass production, which I wrote to you about.
            The vast majority of Russian companies, when trying to switch to robots, will simply lie belly up
            Quote: Eroma
            For example, by making production more compact, less labor-intensive (at the packing area, replace 6 packers with 1 machine

            This is not robotics, but mechanics, and, in fact, this has been working for 100 years at lunchtime.
            Quote: Eroma
            With regards to money, I write that this should happen at the expense of the state

            And they, in your opinion, have inexhaustible sixbillions? :)))
            Quote: Eroma
            which by the way does not know at all what to do with the money from the sale of our resources! so our financial reserves go off scale!

            It is by your standards they go off scale. And so we had about $ 600 billion - this is Apple's two-year revenue
            Quote: Eroma
            Be afraid of wolves, do not go into the forest! If you want to live better, then this is just a task that needs to be solved!

            Yeah. Only in completely different ways.
            Quote: Eroma
            There is no real market for robots in Russia now, with the help of orders we CREATE our own capacious market

            These are all common words, alas, having nothing to do with reality. If you evaluate the costs of producing competitive robots in the Russian Federation, and then the volume of subsidies for at least one industry, then you will see that the gold and foreign exchange reserves of the Russian Federation ... will run out very quickly :))))
            1. -1
              29 January 2023 12: 14
              Andrey, I don’t understand what we are arguing about? hi if you do not see the point of introducing robots in your factory, no one is forcing you, continue to work with sledgehammers and modify with a file! wink
              Robotization at the expense of the state, this should be as an incentive! In Russia, there is a need for robots, both conscious and hidden; not yet realized. A clear need is closed by purchasing robots, the lion's share of installed robots in Russia is imported, more than 90% of the market! The state should increase the competitiveness of Russian manufacturers by purchasing equipment from them for those who need it! This is the meaning of the first and second stages!
              As for money, there will be enough for the first two stages! And in general, the USSR did not have so many, and grandfathers built whole industries
              1. +2
                29 January 2023 18: 13
                Quote: Eroma
                Andrey, I don’t understand what we are arguing about?

                We don't argue. I'm just trying to explain your mistakes to you. Prefer to stick with them? Not a question, your right.
                Quote: Eroma
                As for money, there will be enough for the first two stages! And in general, the USSR did not have so many, and grandfathers built whole industries

                That's why they built it, because they did it wisely.
                The Russian Federation first needs to decide on its economic place in the world. What we produce ourselves, because it is the security of the state, what we are trying to succeed in, in order to become the best in the world, or to give such a price / quality ratio so that they buy everywhere, and what - to buy abroad. This is primary. Second - what needs to be done in order to achieve the result according to paragraph 1
                Well, for example, we decide that the dominance of Boeings and Airbuses in civil aviation is dangerous for us. We want to fly in the Russian Federation on their passenger planes. Suppose we need 1000 airliners for the whole country.
                We cannot compete with Boeing and Airbus in the world markets. Even if we were able to create equivalent or better aircraft, we would not be able to ensure their operation around the world - service centers, stocks of spare parts and so on and so forth. And even if we invest and provide, there is no guarantee that tomorrow all this will not be taken away, like 300 billion reserves in banks. Boeing and Airbus are simple and understandable to foreigners, they are THEM, and they, of course, will never give them up in favor of our aircraft.
                Accordingly, we are investing in aviation so that it meets our needs. Taking into account the fact that the aircraft is operated on average, well, let's say 25 years (more precisely, 25-30), it turns out that we need to produce 1000/25=40 passenger aircraft per year. yes, this is not a Boeing with its three hundred, which means our companies will be weaker (less revenue - less money for R&D, etc.)
                And, accordingly, it is necessary to understand how to make these 40 aircraft per year acceptable both for passengers and airlines in terms of price / quality ratio. And these solutions will be infinitely far from the robotization that you want.
                Same for other industries.
                1. 0
                  30 January 2023 00: 15
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  The Russian Federation first needs to decide on its economic place in the world.

                  The state is not a corporation! It is not the task of the Government to conduct research on the segmentation of the World market and the search for affordable and profitable niches! The task of the government is to ensure the welfare and security of the citizens of the country. Welfare in countries with market economies is provided by enterprising citizens, the task of the government is to provide them with the opportunity to implement their ideas and bring benefits to society. From your example with airplanes, the benefit is the ability to travel around the country and beyond its borders by air. The government should create conditions for the development, production and acquisition of aircraft by companies wishing to engage in this business. Protecting your own market from competitors from other countries is the task of the government. Your proposal is to close our own aircraft market for foreign manufacturers and, apparently, to subsidize the production of aircraft. There is no other way to solve the problem you describe below:
                  And, accordingly, it is necessary to understand how to make these 40 aircraft per year acceptable both for passengers and airlines in terms of price / quality ratio.
                  If you want to promote your aircraft to the world market, continue to subsidize production for the world market, if you succeed, then maybe the aircraft industry will be able to gain such momentum that there will be no need for subsidies. Another question that you raised earlier: "Is there enough money for large-scale subsidies?" bully
                  With the help of subsidies to industry, and I treat them as investments, you can achieve a lot, but if you don’t do them deliberately, then you can go broke! It is necessary to look for industries in which investments give the maximum effect.
                  In our current reality, the government also has to solve the problem of saving some industries that, due to the stupidity of our own government, have fallen into decay! And these investments may not be the most effective, but necessary! There is only to endure, in the hope of the success of the measures taken.

                  You see, our reasoning with you goes away from the main goal. I am trying to find a way, to create conditions under which a market will appear that can ensure the viability of the microelectronic industry in Russia, as one of the basic sectors of both economic power and military security! And instead of a dialogue, about possibly finding ways to achieve this goal, you explain to me that Tajiks are more profitable than robots! By importing Tajiks to Russia, will you create the prerequisites for the emergence of microchip production? For microchips, you need to mass-produce some kind of electronics!
                  1. +2
                    30 January 2023 09: 10
                    Quote: Eroma
                    The state is not a corporation! It is not the task of the Government to conduct research on the segmentation of the World market and the search for affordable and profitable niches!

                    This is precisely the task of the government.
                    Quote: Eroma
                    Do you want to promote your aircraft to the world market, continue to subsidize production for the world market,

                    And how will the government determine, in your opinion, which industries and for what it will subsidize, and what will not? If goals are not set?
                    The answer is either nothing, or how the left heel itched, and neither method will work, which we are now seeing.
                    But the ancestors who carried out industrialization were smarter, set themselves the right goals, which is why they succeeded.
                    Quote: Eroma
                    You need to look for industries in which investments give the maximum effect.

                    What is the maximum? :))) Maximum profit? Then you will have to forget about domestic robots altogether. The maximum profit on robots will be shown by enterprises using foreign lines (where robots are applicable, of course)
                    Quote: Eroma
                    I am trying to find a way to create conditions under which a market will appear that can ensure the viability of the microelectronics industry in Russia

                    To do this, you first need to create it. And you need to understand that we will not be able to compete with Intel and other AMD. Therefore, in terms of microelectronics, it is necessary to set priorities:
                    1. military order
                    2. Needs in key industries that we want to cover on our own. Even at the expense of quality.
                    And something tells me that robotics will be there .... Far from being in the forefront
                    1. 0
                      30 January 2023 16: 16
                      You are probably more an engineer than an economist! Your reasoning is more about the production process, and not about money. wink
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      To do this, you first need to create

                      There is a rule in business: demand creates supply and supply creates demand. Satisfying existing demand is a safer business, because there is no risk of error, but creating demand with supply is very risky, because. the market may not accept your product, or there may not be enough demand to make it profitable what
                      Where did the Soviet industry go? People are making noise: stolen, sold, betrayal! am but from the point of view of the economy, everything is elementary: exaggerated: the sales market for the factories of the USSR was the state order, i.e. state! After the collapse of the USSR, the government did not save the state order, exaggeratedly ordering refrigerators instead of tanks, it simply disappeared as a customer! Factories that worked for the national economy had some chances, factories that worked for the household market too, but the government opened the market to imports and buried these chances. People who took over the factories, received an asset that had no market, and the idle plant eats money on a wild scale, you can go broke with such an asset twice! belay there is only one way out, stopping the plant and selling it for just any money, in order to get at least something from the privatization, and the area for rent. And so the factories disappeared. crying
                      To prevent this from happening again, industries need to be created on economically sound plans! Because today the president is an innovator, he is building a plant that is needed, but incurs losses, and tomorrow he will be imprisoned for embezzlement, and the plant, as unprofitable, is again scrapped! belay
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      What is the maximum? :))) Maximum profit? That

                      For the state, profit is generally a harmful concept! negative today the state thinks only about profit, they are proud of the surplus budget! It makes me angry, if the money is not needed, why are they taken away? Efficiency is the maximum return for the economy and society!
                      And about the tasks of the government: Do you vote for the President, what do you focus on? On his ability to sell more oil, or tractors? It's not his business and the government's business, today they only think about business, are you happy about this? bully I think by voting, you are counting on an improvement in life, or moral satisfaction, such as "We are the First!" Yes
                      There should be a certain standard of living, they are trying to replace it with the concept of KPI, some kind of indicator showing the effectiveness of the government. We need a standard in physical numbers, every resident of Russia must have: so many square meters of housing, access to the Internet, digital television, a rural family's personal car, access to healthcare and its quality, cultural education, etc. This is what the government should be responsible for. And the development of business and the economy is the way to achieve this standard
                    2. 0
                      30 January 2023 17: 24
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      And something tells me that robotics will be there .... Far from being in the forefront

                      In the article, the emphasis is probably not quite right, the emphasis was on robotics, as the most striking example of a high-tech industry. recourse This confused many. It would be more correct to talk about the automation of Russia, where robots are only part of the project. In general, all intellectual products are meant: neural networks, robots, data transmission tools and data centers, in all areas we have groundwork in the form of innovative companies that are trying to break into the Russian market, filled with imported products and suffering from a lack of funding. The point is that the state should introduce Russian products wherever there is a need for them, at the expense of the state! This is analogous to industrialization. Today, there are only stimulating instruments that do not allow Russian developers to adequately compete with imports. Their market share is minuscule and the market itself is developing at a snail's pace! And the potential growth is cosmic, so we need to produce this growth!
                  2. +1
                    1 February 2023 03: 59
                    We can only have 2 places in the world right now. Either a source of cheap raw materials, or a source of an alternative way of life.
                    The first option is simple, understandable and leads to self-destruction. I hope that the evidence of this is revealed to an increasing number of fellow citizens.
                    The second option is much more difficult, although in the future it may be of interest to half the world. This option is complicated by the fact that it requires capital investments, and there is nowhere to take them except from the trade in raw materials, and this again leads us to option No. 1.
                    Therefore, the first step is obvious in any case: trade in raw materials, but wisely. Deeper processing, producing equipment ourselves, driving oil and gas not only through pipes, but also by tankers - in order to have a greater choice of buyers.
                    But in the second option, the state and society must forcibly direct the proceeds to the development of society, and not to the glutton.
                    What does "alternative lifestyle" mean? Well, for example, Western capitalists sell not only their goods, but also the so-called. "Western way of life", and often even "American". A lot of money is spent on its promotion, on mass cult, for example, although the cinema does not bring any special super-profits. If people were all ascetics, then there would be no demand for goods.
                    But people for the most part do not want to be ascetics, and therefore they choose the Western way of life.
                    However, paradoxically, the same scientific progress that gave birth to him is also killing him. Endemic robotization is undermining the nutritional base of the middle class, and everyone will not fit into celebrities. No matter how many “success stories” about the promotion of some blogger are shown to us, 90% of the population will not be able to do this.
                    Therefore, it is necessary to develop such living standards that would be more attractive than Western ones, but less energy-intensive. And, moreover, suitable for promotion abroad. Naturally, we will not be able to beat the Western level of consumption, but there is no point in propagandizing Suslov's asceticism either, especially since religious fanatics have been operating in this field for a long time.
                    This business needs a new ideology, but also a new organization of life, too. Paradoxically, but, apparently, the solution should not lie in the advancement of technologies (for example, robotics) at any cost, but, on the contrary, in the ability to sometimes do without them within reasonable limits (for example, to organize attractive work for the masses in traditional factories, which will also give economic base, and the domestic market)
                    Only it is necessary to promote such an ideology not at your own expense, but in such a way that you do not forget about your own benefit.
                2. 0
                  31 January 2023 15: 42
                  "The Russian Federation first needs to decide on its economic place in the world." I completely agree.
                  "We cannot compete with Boeing and Airbus in global markets." But here it isn't. For starters, they can be banned from supplying aluminum alloys and titanium products. At a minimum, this will increase the cost of their products. In Soviet times, a large number of passenger aircraft were delivered to Asia, Africa, Latin America: Tu-134, TU-154, Il-18, Il-62, Yak-40, Yak-42, An-24. Why can't RF do the same?
                  "And these solutions will be infinitely far from the robotization that you want." Apparently, your knowledge of "robots" has developed under the influence of Hollywood films? Such as in the cinema, robots, androids, will have a fairly narrow scope: working with people, serving them, helping the sick and the elderly (care for them), teaching children ... For the purposes of factory production, construction, etc. they don't fit. Technologies designed for humans are not effective for cybernetic (automatic) production systems. They need their own technologies, a good example is 3D printers.
              2. +1
                30 January 2023 16: 19
                Quote: Eroma
                Andrey, I don’t understand what we are arguing about? hi

                Most likely dispute here about what;
                Quote: ivan2022
                the success of a public cause, movement .....- depends on a combination of objective and subjective factors.

                Andrei does not see in our society a movement that implements objectively excellent ideas. This is a social issue. The main thing is that there should be such a movement, but how to make robots there, this is a technical issue. There are thousands of specialists to understand such things.
                1. 0
                  30 January 2023 16: 38
                  fuck fuck! belay Do you have a scientific degree? to twist your tongue like that! good hi Unfortunately, with apathy in society, everything is fine No.
          2. 0
            29 January 2023 10: 00
            Quote: Eroma
            replace 6 packers with 1 machine, which instead of 6 salaries and taxes on these RFPs, will spend energy in an amount comparable to 1 RFP)

            And to service this machine, you will need a specially trained person with a salary like ten packers, plus the cost of the machine itself. Where is the profit?
            And anticipating a possible objection, immediately, no. One technician for twenty enterprises will not work.
            1. +1
              30 January 2023 16: 26
              Quote: Senior Sailor
              Quote: Eroma
              replace 6 packers with 1 machine, which instead of 6 salaries and taxes on these RFPs, will spend energy in an amount comparable to 1 RFP)

              And to service this machine, you will need a specially trained person with a salary like ten packers, plus the cost of the machine itself. Where is the profit?
              .

              It depends from which side you look. One person is afraid that with the advent of robots humanity will die of idleness, the other is afraid that it will be unprofitable for people to invent, repair and maintain all these machines. Everything is simple in Russia; one doctor of sciences receives no more than a janitor who undertook to work for one and a half rates ..... business is something ....
    2. 0
      28 January 2023 21: 45
      Robot janitor, huh...

      And what is wrong?
      Here is the robot food
      https://youtu.be/ppgN3Olwgcs?t=146
      Harvesting
      https://youtu.be/yAHJr-DtRoQ
      Here is the robot assistant laughing
      https://vk.com/video-157157611_456240492
  30. +1
    28 January 2023 18: 55
    This is a scientific utopia that has absolutely nothing to do with our reality. Everything written could theoretically be embodied in the USSR around the 70s if they successfully began to reform the economy and carried out the "Kosygin reforms". Well, now, as they say, "it's too late to drink Borjomi." Now everything written by the author is quite successfully implemented by China. And our destiny is to sell raw materials. And if these incomes are not stolen and kept in foreign banks / trusts / funds, then it is quite possible to build a country that is comfortable for living, despite the climate. But not with this government, which has shown itself in all its glory in 20 years.
  31. +2
    28 January 2023 20: 51
    Robots in the world are already yesterday,

    Not quite hi . Robots are still the future.
    Humanoid robots can generally raise the economy. bully

    the world is actively introducing 3D printers, for many Russian manufacturers this is an incomprehensible miracle machine, because they have not seen 3D printers in real life,

    3D printers are just not that hard.
    Moreover, there is a company in the Russian Federation that makes 5D printers
    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/148682/

    and how to use them - few people know, although for small-scale production this is an extremely useful thing.

    Well why.
    There are even printers to print at home in Russia



    In Russia, there is a shortage of population, and spending labor resources on low-skilled labor is a waste for society.

    I totally agree.
  32. +1
    28 January 2023 21: 48
    Let us recall the words of A. Blok: "Fire a bullet into Holy Rus'!"
    And the old joke about the slogan on the facade of the artillery school: "Our goal is communism!"
    The time has come and how they fired at the target in October 1993 .....
    Now it's time for new ideas. Now our goal is high technology ..... This is not to be understood by the mind. But judging by experience, it is quite possible to believe it. For some reason, except to shoot, nothing happens.
  33. +2
    28 January 2023 22: 42
    Until we decide on the doctrine of the country's development, dead strategies and projects will continue to appear. Roughly speaking, if you rely on high-tech, then in a good way, the income from the sale of raw materials should be invested in high-tech industries, taxes on raw materials within the country are minimal (cheap base for industrial growth), on the export of raw materials are maximum (the very investments in technology) .

    State corporations today are a brake on development, it is obvious that they will not make Samsung or IBM. On the one hand, they have the financial, administrative, and technical capabilities for science-intensive production; on the other hand, they suffer from a creative crisis, the dominance of incompetent leaders, nepotism, blat, and so on.

    The way out, it seems to me, is the separation of business processes. State corporations can become the same technoparks, collective laboratories, fabs. And the engineering, scientific, creative part should be outsourced. Let a lot of engineering companies develop concepts, projects, then the best projects are selected at the competition and implemented in state-owned companies (Rostec, Rosatom, UAC, etc.).

    It was in this way that in Soviet times, at the dawn of industrialization, competition was maintained within the country, within the industry. Many research institutes fought for production capacity, offering the best solutions. Which design bureau won, that was given to the plant for production. Then, of course, over time, the design bureaus became larger, heavier, overgrown with their factories, absorbed other teams.
  34. 0
    28 January 2023 22: 48
    Excellent article in terms of content and language of presentation! I agree with the thesis of the author. The program looks reasonable, imbued with optimism and faith in progress and the mind of people. It is desirable to supplement the program - this is in the order of the proposal, with industry-wide events - where the released workers will be sent. After all, it is obvious that for 100 robots that have replaced at least 100 workers, a maximum of 5 people will be required to service them, so it is important to think about where and how to send the remaining 95 people so as not to create a storm of social and simply human tragedy.
    The second thought-question - what mechanisms are known and proposed for the mass transfer of citizens from the state of consumption to the state of creation? From depression and apathy to optimism and creative, useful work for both man and society? This is not a criticism of the article - the question is the largest in its significance. For the solution, you can safely give 2 Nobel Prizes at once.
    1. 0
      29 January 2023 10: 27
      Quote: gromovanton
      Where will the redundant workers be sent? After all, it is obvious that for 100 robots that have replaced at least 100 workers, a maximum of 5 people will be required to service them, so it is important to think about where and how to send the remaining 95 people so as not to create a storm of social and simply human tragedy.

      It is probably not possible to resolve this issue administratively, officials with imagination usually have difficulties No.
      In Russia gastro workers are mainly engaged in low-skilled labor, and this is a very mobile workforce, not tied to anything. There is no work at the factory, they will go to a construction site, they are not in this city, they will leave for another.
      If you thoughtfully approach the issue of robotization, then in the initial period you can implement solutions that really help production, for example, where there is a real shortage of some kind of specialists, or solutions, on the contrary, expanding the capabilities of specialists, increasing their efficiency.
      By developing the market for high-tech products, we are increasing the number of highly paid specialists in the economy who, with their salaries, will influence other sectors of the economy. For example, in the service sector, the same restaurants, they will grow, they will load food production with orders, which will have a growing need for laborers. As a result, after leaving the factory, the handyman will find work in the food industry. As an option.
      I think the issue is being resolved by maintaining a reasonable pace of economic change so that people have time to adapt, but of course the process cannot be left to chance either.
  35. -1
    29 January 2023 01: 48
    Where should we start, with the lines of lithography, dear author, we should start. As the USSR in the early 20s, by hook or by crook, imported industrial lines into its territory, the Russian Federation must act in the same way. But such actions are not and are not expected.
    Forgive the rest, just verbal husks, if you are not able to provide even the military industry with your component base, then they will talk about you only as a third world country.
  36. 0
    29 January 2023 02: 52
    Development, evolution - are determined by one main factor - extinction. They die out, not adapted to these conditions. As Darwin wrote, the fittest survive (and not the strongest, as they misquote).
    The adaptation of "entrepreneurs" to our conditions does not require the development of production, robotization and other nonsense at all.
    Well, who will remove his relative, who will ignore a simple way to make a profit, who will make the fools and the incapable die out - but their relatives, friends, who give bribes?
    And whoever you do not "appoint" - he will simply die out, as not suitable for real, and not declared by orders and resolutions, economic conditions ...
  37. +1
    29 January 2023 03: 15
    "In Russia, little is for sale" and if it is for sale, then the prices make your eyes pop, for the development of creativity, and at the same time new technologies, you must first curb prices.
    1. -1
      29 January 2023 10: 33
      There is a problem with prices, I'm aware. I think we've resolved the issue.
  38. +1
    29 January 2023 09: 27
    Quote: Eroma
    Development from zero always looks more enchanting than development from the limits of possibilities!
    Today, the Chinese economy may have reached a certain limit in some sectors and there are few opportunities for growth! As they say, we would laugh at their problems
    But the very fact of progress in China's technology is a subject for praise.


    There was no zero. With the help of the USSR, basic industries were developed and the level of education was sharply raised.
    China acquired nuclear weapons even before it became friends with the United States. Do you think he cooked on his knee?

    I personally do not want Chinese problems. With the environment there - full guard. And few of us now want to work hard like the Chinese "biorobots". Isn't it strange that robotization does not allow the local proletarians to relax too much?
    China has made progress not without outside help. We will not be helped. And we have fewer opportunities for industrial espionage than the PRC.
  39. +1
    29 January 2023 09: 29
    Quote from stelltok
    And what is wrong?


    With the money that such a robot costs, you can hire a platoon of taxis.
    1. 0
      29 January 2023 19: 44
      With the money that such a robot costs, you can hire a platoon of taxis.

      Once a Nokia push-button phone cost $260. Now it's $5.
      The more robots will be produced / sold, the lower the price for them.
  40. +1
    29 January 2023 09: 36
    Quote: Eroma
    Those. for the growth of the market of robots made in Russia, you just need to drive money from the industry, there will be an excellent result right away! good further, more and more interesting, with the growth of production, our robot manufacturers themselves, without the participation of the state, will be able to master the world market by generating technologies and introducing them into our lives!


    Drive ... "we will drive into happiness with an iron fist?" Who will drive it? This is only for the state, and not the same as we have now.
    That was what they were talking about, about "administrative-command" methods of stimulation.

    Explore the world market... are you broadcasting to us from the past, from 2013? Or, on the contrary, from the distant Bright Future, a la Alisa Selezneva?
    Hey, do you even know what's going on in the world? Our ballet and Tchaikovsky are already "non grata", and you are talking about the development of the world market by domestic companies.
    1. -1
      29 January 2023 10: 31
      Quote: Illanatol
      Do you even know what's going on in the world? Our ballet and Tchaikovsky are already "non grata", and you are talking about the development of the world market by domestic companies.

      Do you know only Western countries in the world? In that post I answered about the markets of Latin America and the Maghreb
  41. 0
    29 January 2023 12: 16
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Yeah. Only in a completely different way

    And here in more detail if possible
  42. +2
    29 January 2023 13: 36
    Quote: Eroma
    Do you know only Western countries in the world? In that post I answered about the markets of Latin America and the Maghreb


    Do you know that Latin America already has its own manufacturers of high-tech products?
    Mexico, for example. And the Maghreb - are there free niches, are they waiting for us there? The West and China have already crawled through all the cracks.
    1. -1
      29 January 2023 16: 14
      Desire is 1000 possibilities, not desire is 1000 reasons! Not you and not like you will change Russia! negative
      Quote: Illanatol
      and the PRC has already crawled through all the cracks.

      As they climbed, so they will release! Example: there were Sony and Samsung laptops on the market, now they are gone, the market is occupied by others! There is nothing permanent, if you want to achieve something, first you need to at least try!
  43. 0
    29 January 2023 17: 12
    Well written. But there are economic mistakes. Let's say we invest in robotics, get the maximum profit and... Where do we sell robots and where do we invest money? In the robotization of Russian enterprises?
    If we sold robots to the West and invested in the re-equipment of the material base, scientific development, training, etc. then I agree that this is effective, but with some but ... If we invest in the robotization of our own industry, then we increase the efficiency of production per person, the sales market does not expand and, as a result, laid-off employees are hung up on state security, the state raises taxes, our modern technology and skilled workers are leaving for the west, just as German factories are leaving now after the gas shutoff.
    Those. just throwing away money.
    What do you need? It is necessary to reduce the market sector of the economy for the planned re-equipment of industry, as you indicated at the beginning of the article, the market is not able to invest in long-term development, stimulate the use of our oligarchs' money in the real sector of the economy, strengthen the Eurasian Union, weaken the dollar and many other things. Neither we nor the world are ready for our robotization of production. It is easier for the world to throw money into India, where labor is cheap, but the West, having burned itself on China, has chosen a different strategy.
    1. 0
      30 January 2023 10: 11
      Quote from bagir
      then we increase the efficiency of production per person, the sales market does not expand, and as a result, laid-off employees are hung up on state security, the state raises taxes, our modern equipment and skilled workers go to the west, as German production is now leaving after the gas is turned off.

      Very interesting remark, but I think there is no such danger. For large-scale transformations, even for large-scale robotization, the economy and society are simply not ready. The amount of work is colossal, so all the work will stretch for decades, and in Russia there will simply be a natural change in the structure of the labor market, as it was in 90-2000, when instead of engineers, they began to train managers. By starting to invest in the development of the robotics industry, which we practically do not have today, we will create a demand for specialists in this field, this demand will be satisfied mainly by young people. At the initial stage, the growth in the production of robots will occur due to import substitution, today Russia buys robots, just more than 90% of the market is occupied by imports. Further, with the growth of the capabilities of Russian robot manufacturers both in the field of production and design, it is necessary to focus on the introduction of robots in areas where there are difficulties with specialists or labor. Until we go this way, this is at best a five-year period. At this time, the growth of the robotics industry, for the most part, will affect the labor market only as a consumer of highly qualified specialists, stimulating their training. When we move on to industrial automation itself, by this time a lot of highly paid specialists from the robotics industry will begin to influence other markets with their salaries, increasing demand, for example, in the service sector, where the need for conditionally laborers will grow. Therefore, when the replacement of laborers in industry begins, they will simply move into the service sector. The process will take decades, during which time a conditional turner will be able to work quietly until his retirement, it’s just that his son will not be a turner, but, for example, a specialist in the design of automated lines, and his grandson will become an adjusting engineer for robotic systems. If approached correctly, then everything will happen naturally.


      Quote from bagir
      stimulate the use of our oligarchs' money in the real sector of the economy

      They invest in the extraction of resources, because resources have a guaranteed demand and provide a guaranteed income. They do not invest in something else, because it is a guaranteed risk of losing them! Even for this article, read the opinions of people: the Chinese have occupied everything, the West forbids us everything, i.e. people do not believe in success and aligarhi too. If the government, with the help of the budget, guarantees the demand for robotics, for example, in the amount of 300 billion rubles a year, for example, for 20 years (a robotization program, similar to an armaments program), then the aligarhs will definitely join in cutting the budget! laughing it is important to formulate criteria for receiving money.
  44. 0
    29 January 2023 19: 45
    Quote from stelltok

    So the Russian Federation buys a lot of imported goods.
    So why not replace them with your own?

    But how then will the "unfortunate officials" live?
    Imports are not because they cannot produce their own, but because it is very convenient to divert a trickle of funds to the side.
    Why have we destroyed most of the production?
    Because the official does not benefit from them.
    Even with the most basic things - bearings, gearboxes, electric motors, and the same nails and self-tapping screws.
    Robots have nothing to do with it.
    But if it were like in China - a good official - (and then as about an Indian) - then, you see, if not drones, then at least they produced their own screws and bearings ...

    Looking at today's mess and bureaucratic lawlessness (even in the structures of the Moscow Region), you begin to understand the uncompromising nature of "proletarian anger" in the distant 17th, and then in the 37th.
    If then it was like now, then they would drink Bavarian here ....
  45. 0
    30 January 2023 01: 00
    Until the people (and these are workers, engineers, managers, officials, military, etc.) stop being dumb and work at half strength, nothing will change
  46. 0
    30 January 2023 14: 05
    .
    Quote from stelltok
    Once a Nokia push-button phone cost $260. Now it's $5.
    The more robots will be produced / sold, the lower the price for them


    This is where it costs 5 bucks? Given the comparable quality of performance and functionality?
    Exactly, not with us. A decent (more or less reliable) push-button phone in local stores - from 3000 rubles (40 bucks, minimum).
    And not robots helped to reduce prices, but the massive use of cheap Chinese (generally Asian) hands.
    Prices for "hi-tech" fell at one time, but now they have really begun to rise again. Have you upgraded your computer lately? Prices (even in foreign catalogs) can surprise you unpleasantly.
    1. 0
      30 January 2023 20: 18
      This is where it costs 5 bucks?

      We're talking about used. Yes, and new push-buttons cost $ 40
      Prices for "hi-tech" fell at one time, but now they have really begun to rise again.

      The bottom line is that robots will cost a lot at first, then the price will fall.
      An example with push-button telephones.
  47. +1
    30 January 2023 14: 13
    Quote: Eroma
    As they climbed, so they will release! Example: there were Sony and Samsung laptops on the market, now they are gone, the market is occupied by others! There is nothing permanent, if you want to achieve something, first you need to at least try!


    The same Chinese and Taiwanese. And in order to force them out, it is necessary to ensure greater production efficiency and lower cost than theirs.
    It is possible to do this (in the future) for the Indians, but not for us. Alas, "Parshev's theorem" is not entirely wrong.
    Even robots love warmth and constant positive temperatures. And to build a factory or plant in India or in the southern provinces of China is many times cheaper than in the Russian Federation.

    Once again: all these "robotics" are possible in our country, only with an increase in the role of the state in the economy and strengthening of planning principles.
    Home-grown bourgeois have no "long money" for all this music and never will. They only care about their own profit and pocket ... they are already in chocolate without any robots.
    1. 0
      30 January 2023 18: 04
      Quote: Illanatol
      Once again: all these "robotics" are possible in our country, only with an increase in the role of the state in the economy and strengthening of planning principles.
      Home-grown bourgeois have no "long money" for all this music and never will. They only care about their own profit and pocket ... they are already in chocolate without any robots.

      Planned beginnings did not harm anyone at all! The state can and should participate as a participant in the process, increasing its share where it is either very important or has no alternative. The leading role, all the same, should be occupied by businessmen! bully why? Name at least one state corporation that has created an innovative product and successfully entered the market? (VPK is not taken into account)
  48. 0
    31 January 2023 07: 30
    Correct thoughts. But the whole problem is in the leadership. If there are people in the leadership with a mindset aimed at simple schemes for extracting maximum profit, they will cut projects under the slogan of robotization.
    As long as there are no people in the leadership capable of self-restraint, capable of refusing to immediately receive easy profits for the sake of long-term construction of large-scale infrastructure projects, things will not move forward.
    Cadres decide everything.
    And the point here, I'm afraid, is in psychology, upbringing, genetics.
  49. 0
    31 January 2023 09: 08
    Quote: Eroma
    Planned beginnings did not harm anyone at all! The state can and should participate as a participant in the process, increasing its share where it is either very important or has no alternative. The leading role, all the same, should be occupied by businessmen! bully why? Name at least one state corporation that has created an innovative product and successfully entered the market? (VPK is not taken into account)


    Most of the innovations that the West is so proud of were created by private corporations in the course of completely state programs, such as the Manhattan Project and Apollo.

    Merchants are not producers, but merchants. It is not necessary to call the manufacturer-industrialists businessmen.

    In Russia, due to a number of peculiarities, only state capitalism is really capable. Western capitalism, especially the Anglo-Saxon model (based on the primacy of private initiative), will not work for us.
    We practically do not have large corporations that do not have close ties with the state.

    To be honest, I don't care about the market or the notorious competitiveness. Neither is the main thing.

    Is our goal a high-tech Russia?
    We need such a Russia, I agree.
    And the West? Do they need such a Russia?
    Will the local bourgeoisie lazily watch how Russia becomes high-tech, or will they try to influence such a process? In a non-positive way...
    Think about it.
  50. 0
    31 January 2023 09: 12
    Quote from stelltok
    The bottom line is that robots will cost a lot at first, then the price will fall.


    Sure?
    Something car prices are not falling. Especially in nominal terms. With the money that 50 years ago could buy a Cadillac, in our time you can only buy a Volkswagen, and even then not any.
  51. 0
    31 January 2023 11: 46
    when, instead of the Rogozins, Manturovs, etc., supposedly there are managers, there will be technicians who know the problem and can organize production, and who are interested not in personal success, but in the rise of industry, then maybe we’ll move forward... maybe not too late ?
    1. 0
      31 January 2023 19: 04
      Yes! It's about people. So far there are no social elevators for those implementing robo-programs. Now a new Peter will appear with a table of ranks....
  52. +3
    1 February 2023 14: 18
    It's nice to see an author who is in many ways in tune with my ideas! So "+" is definite.
    However, I will add a couple of points:
    The answer is banal: the production of mass high-tech products and microelectronics, including microchips, is not economically profitable in Russia

    In fact, it is profitable because we have the lowest cost for extracted resources and the energy resources necessary for their processing. Our cost of space for production is negligible because land is cheap and, in principle, there is an abundance of it. We have cheap and abundant recreational resources, such as fresh water, necessary for a number of industries, and also, relative to Western states, absolutely no environmental standards regarding the exploitation of these same resources and environment. We also have a local abundance of labor, and even where there is no abundance, its cost (although inferior to Asia) is still very modest. I note that the energy resources involved in all stages of production and transportation are also as cheap as possible.

    But these are, as they say, details. Our own domestic market is small, however, until recently we had potential. the opportunity, using various levers of influence and a competent expansion strategy, to gradually subjugate the CIS space, as well as a number of neighboring markets under sanctions pressure (like Iran or the DPRK) - albeit to a lesser extent.
    This would give us coverage of the needs of a population comparable to our own in size. In addition to this, we have POTENTIAL and (apparently) somehow developing ties within the BRICS, as well as historical ties with the states of Latin America, Africa and the Middle East. Somewhere, of course, we will experience pressure from Chinese manufacturers and businesses, but in general, I would estimate the market on which we could sell our high-tech to be at least 400 million souls (including 140-150 of ours). Is this enough for the survival and development of our own economy? More than.
    Here the whole issue comes down to large-scale planning coupled with constant monitoring of markets and forecasting.
    The situation with international sanction pressure has now reached almost its peak - it’s a no brainer that the Western world will continue to use its technological cycles and products as instruments of coercion to its line of vision - and this, in general, is our chance to become a real alternative (as in many ways the USSR was) for other states dissatisfied with this state of affairs. Only now this would not be done under the sauce of politics, but under purely practical interests, beneficial primarily for us.

    The problem here is that the authorities do not show signs of desire to begin implementing this kind of approach (with the proper scale and organization), they did not show it 5 or 10 years ago, when everything was much softer than now “outside”, but already indicated the potential dangerous configurations. Until now, “based on the facts,” I see sentiments in the style of “let’s sit it out, endure it, and everything will be as before.” This hinders a breakthrough in progress more than all the sanctions combined..

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