When the Leopards burn down in Ukraine, the Abrams will take their place in the armies of the EU countries

104
When the Leopards burn down in Ukraine, the Abrams will take their place in the armies of the EU countries

Once Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin were asked to feed a cat with mustard. Roosevelt grabbed the cat by the scruff of the neck with one hand, and with the other he took a spoon, scooped up mustard and began to stuff it into the cat's mouth. With great effort, he managed to stuff a small fraction of mustard into the cat's mouth. "No," said Churchill, "that is an uncivilized method." He poured the mustard into a saucer and poked the cat with its muzzle. The cat, grimacing and snorting, began to lick the mustard off its muzzle. Stalin grabbed the cat and smeared mustard on her bottom. The cat screamed wildly and began to lick the mustard. “You see,” Stalin said, “voluntarily and with songs!”

This anecdote quite clearly characterizes the current situation in the world. Apparently, the Anglo-Saxons drew conclusions from this anecdote, and now the countries of Europe are playing the role of a cat, which “voluntarily and with songs” ruin their own industry and economy to the applause of their overseas master. After all, if someone thinks that only Russia is the goal of the United States, then he is deeply mistaken. There is nothing more pleasant and profitable for the United States than to weaken (this is the mildest expression that can be used for printing) its European vassal ally - the European Union. And more precisely, the countries of Europe, since this entity could never be called a single country.



And one of the most important tasks of the United States is to get the maximum profit from the involvement of the European Union in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, by obtaining preferences in energy, by fleeing European manufacturing companies and intellectual resources to the United States, as well as by reformatting the arms market in Europe.

And the fuss with the supply of heavy melee weapons to Ukraine - the main combat tanks (OBT), characterizes this very well.

Why does Ukraine need tanks?


History tanks, although it began with the First World War, it essentially opened up during the Second World War. It was then that tanks became the main striking force on the battlefield, a means to break through the enemy's defensive formations, the basis of blitzkrieg and mobile warfare. Then it seemed that here it is - perfect weapon for ground combat.

But the fact that tanks have become such a formidable force was the reason that all possible means began to be developed to destroy them - anti-tank missile systems (ATGM), attack aircraft and combat helicopters with anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM), cluster munitions with self-aiming combat elements, various types of anti-tank mines that attack not only from below, but also from the side, and much more. In our time, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) have been added to all this diversity, which can both carry the same ATGMs and act as disposable kamikaze munitions.


They say that combat helicopters are the souls of dead tanks. Image by wikipedia.org

Gradually, the situation developed in such a way that the chances for a tank to make war against another tank became less and less. The situation was aggravated by the fact that the tanks themselves became more and more expensive, but at the same time they were still affected by anti-tank ammunition - in the hands of an experienced fighter, even an outdated hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher (RPG) can destroy a tank if it hits vulnerable projections. Even active defense systems (KAZ) did not greatly affect the situation - instead of one ATGM, two have to be spent (ATGMs are fired sequentially, with a minimum delay, in one KAZ protection sector). KAZs will be improved - it will be necessary to spend four missiles instead of two. In any case, a tank worth millions of dollars is destroyed by several ATGMs worth tens of thousands of dollars.

For a long time, tanks have been either buried, especially after the appearance of another highly effective anti-tank weapon, or they are again talking about the need to prioritize the construction of ultra-modern armored forces. On the other hand, no alternative to the tank has yet been invented - this is the most heavily armed and protected means of close ground combat, so this type of weaponry will not go anywhere yet.

It is characteristic that, despite the forecasts and experience of real hostilities, so far, when comparing modern and promising MBTs, we are primarily talking about the “tank against tank” confrontation, although in reality this scenario is the least common - the tank has long turned into a highly effective means infantry support, no more. Massive tank breakthroughs are a thing of the past. Nevertheless, most often they still talk about "Armata" against "Abrams".

Thus, there are two options for the use of Western MBTs by the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU):

1. Support for the infantry in the same way as it is now, both from the Russian and Ukrainian sides.

2. A massive tank breakthrough in the chosen direction, for example, towards the Crimea.

But after all, we said earlier that a tank breakthrough is impossible?

Yes, but only on condition that the attacker is limited in means and technology. Potentially, Ukraine can concentrate all available reserves, use the remaining Soviet and newly delivered Western tanks to the maximum and ensure a breakthrough of the defensive positions of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (RF Armed Forces). Of course, most of the attacking armored vehicles and manpower will be destroyed, which in a normal situation would not allow Ukraine to continue hostilities, but in conditions when a clear political effect is achieved, Ukraine will be able to count on even greater supplies of Western weapons of all classes, for which it management and counts - the show must go on (The Show Must Go On).

And the corpses of Ukrainian soldiers? And who cares...

Based on the foregoing, Ukraine needs tanks precisely for the implementation of the second option - an offensive and a local victory in a politically critical direction. In case of victory, Ukraine will receive combat aircraft, anti-tank helicopters, long-range missiles, and much more.

Of course, as mentioned above, most of the attacking MBTs will be destroyed, which will not have the best effect on their export prospects. However, even if the Armed Forces of Ukraine do not decide on a tank breakthrough, but use the received Western MBTs according to the first option - to support the infantry, they will also be destroyed, only this process will stretch out in time.

Be that as it may, those MBTs that will be delivered to the APU first will become a “sacrificial cow” - in any scenario, they will be destroyed for the most part, and their reputation will be dealt a serious blow.

And this leaves its mark on who wants to supply Ukraine with what kind of tanks.

The problem of choice


What Western tanks can get into Ukraine?

Of course, Poland really wants to supply Western tanks to Ukraine. The problem is that Poland itself does not produce MBTs. Now, after transferring most of the Soviet-made tanks to the Ukrainian Armed Forces, they mainly rely on the German Leopard-2 tanks. A little later, the American MBT "Abrams" and the South Korean MBT "K2" should be added to them.


South Korean MBT "Black Panther". Image by wikipedia.org

In this way, Poland's desire to send Leopard-2 MBT is dictated not only by hatred of Russia, but by a pragmatic calculation - the intention to reduce the "mixed sort" in their ground forces to MBT "Abrams" and MBT "K2", because under this case it is quite possible to try to "divorce" the United States into additional free MBT "Abrams" for the Polish armed forces.

However, apparently, the Germans fully understand that they got the role of that very cat from the joke, which was abundantly smeared with mustard called “Ukraine” on the backside, and a special desire to supply the Leopard-2 MBT, or to allow such deliveries to anyone there were still, they don’t burn, but who will ultimately ask them?


German MBT "Leopard-2". Image by wikipedia.org

The Poles really hope to become the main American wife in the European part of the continent and are ready to do a lot for this, even to put the Leopard-2 MBT without the permission of Germany.

And what tanks can be put instead of / in addition to the Leopard-2 MBT?

The French Leclerc MBT is quite a good tank, but it is too expensive and must be difficult to maintain. These tanks were produced in the amount of about nine hundred vehicles, of which a little more than two hundred are now in service with the French armed forces (in 2021, 406 Leclerc MBTs were in service with the French Army), and the rest were acquired by rich countries in the Middle East. Apparently, this tank has no other commercial prospects. Yes, and France, as a nuclear power, is still a little more independent of the United States than other European lackeys.


French MBT "Leclerc". Image by wikipedia.org

Another contender is the British Challenger 2.

Great Britain hates Russia fiercely and, without a doubt, is one of the main initiators and sponsors of the Russian-Ukrainian conflict, after all, they had a lot of practice - India / Pakistan, China / Taiwan, it's hard to say on which continent the Anglo-Saxons did not have a hand to the division and destruction of peoples. But the Challenger 2 is, to put it more precisely, a “modern junk”, a tank without any prospects, like, in fact, the entire British tank industry.

Of course, the UK will most likely supply its Challengers to Ukraine, but there are too few of them, not enough for the Armed Forces to use them for a massive offensive. Another thing is the MBT "Leopard-2", in different countries of Europe you can scrape together more than one hundred.


British MBT "Challenger-2". Image by wikipedia.org

But why not MBT "Abrams"?

The United States has a lot of these tanks, in their wars they rely mainly on Aviation and the fleet, so why not supply Ukraine with two or three hundred, for starters, especially since the US ground forces (F) are armed with more than two and a half thousand, and there are about three and a half thousand more in storage?

But because the United States does not need risky experiments - the Armed Forces of Ukraine may well be defeated, and this is very bad advertising if Abrams MBTs become part of this defeat. Unlike the M142 HIMARS, tank losses are much more difficult to hide, since they are on the front line and have an extremely recognizable profile - Abrams cannot be passed off as a T-80.

There is no doubt that the United States is confident in the huge losses that the Armed Forces will suffer, and that many Leopard-2 MBTs will be destroyed. From this, the United States will be able to extract both a local defeat of the RF Armed Forces, and the destruction of the existing Leopard-2 MBT fleet in European countries, and the discrediting of the German tank-building industry. Rheinmetall AG will suffer damage, and, perhaps, the French will no longer create a promising tank with them, but will choose American or British partners. As for the rest, they will transfer to Abrams MBTs upgraded for fabulous money from US military storage depots.


American MBT "Abrams". Image by wikipedia.org

Of course, there is also South Korea with its K2 MBTs, but who knows what plans the Anglo-Saxons have for them, in the sense - for South Korea ...

Conclusions


So, the decision to supply tanks to Ukraine was made at a meeting in Ramstein, so that the tanks of the Western countries have already plowed another red line. Of course, the United States made every effort to ensure the supply of only German tanks to Ukraine, but they failed to get out, because the Germans, sensing the prospects looming before them, nevertheless ensured that the United States also supplied Ukraine with its Abrams MBTs.

However, judging by the videos posted on the Internet, dozens of Leopard-2 MBTs are already on their way to Ukraine, but thirty-one Abrams MBTs will be delivered only in a few months. Only thirty-one Abrams tanks, while Leopard-2 MBTs are likely to be delivered in many hundreds, and it is they who will effectively burn in the frame, burying the prospects of the German tank building industry. So, in fact, nothing has changed - the beneficiary of the tank deal of the countries-accomplices of the Ukrainian Nazi regime is still the United States.


Ukraine will be supplied with MBT "Leopard-2" of various modifications, including the oldest version of "Leopard-2A4". Image by wikipedia.org

The Russian Special Military Operation (SVO) in Ukraine has been going on for almost a year now. Military and civilians are dying, two fraternal peoples (or rather, one people divided by deceit and betrayal) destroy each other in a fratricidal war to the delight of overseas puppeteers.

The hatred of the countries of continental Europe towards Russia is understandable, but their craving for economic and technological suicide, which they commit under the leadership of the US and Great Britain, over and over again crossing red lines, is absolutely inexplicable.

However, this is their choice, the question is, rather, when Russia will begin to cross the red lines.
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

104 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +3
    8 February 2023 04: 32
    The situation is getting more complicated ... the first battles with German tanks will show their effectiveness on the battlefield.
    In any case, these supplies divert our resources and reduce our military potential ... we have to spend shells, artillery resources, etc. on destroying tanks.
    I am struck by the Kremlin's stubborn unwillingness to destroy the logistical routes for the delivery of these weapons on the border with Poland ... what else needs to happen for the Kremlin to mature to resolve this issue. request
    1. +7
      8 February 2023 05: 34
      I am struck by the Kremlin's stubborn unwillingness to destroy the logistical routes for the delivery of these weapons on the border with Poland ...

      I have a question: how do you imagine it? So I met cries like yours 100500 times, but I didn’t see real recipes. Here on VO there were even entire articles on this topic, up to crazy ones like creating partisan detachments that derail echelons. MO itself tried a couple of options, but with dubious results. Come on, tell us, we'll all be interested
      1. 0
        16 July 2023 13: 37
        Quote: Ka-52
        I am struck by the Kremlin's stubborn unwillingness to destroy the logistical routes for the delivery of these weapons on the border with Poland ...

        I have a question: how do you imagine it? So I met cries like yours 100500 times, but I didn’t see real recipes. Here on VO there were even entire articles on this topic, up to crazy ones like creating partisan detachments that derail echelons. MO itself tried a couple of options, but with dubious results. Come on, tell us, we'll all be interested

    2. +9
      8 February 2023 06: 29
      Quote: Lech from Android.

      I am struck by the Kremlin's stubborn unwillingness to destroy the logistical routes for the delivery of these weapons on the border with Poland ... what else needs to happen for the Kremlin to mature to resolve this issue. request

      It's just that in the presence of a good network of roads, everything in Ukraine has long been supplied in bulk on forklift trucks. Secondly, railways are easily restored. Even the "partisan army" could only stop railroad deliveries to the Wehrmacht.
      1. +9
        8 February 2023 06: 42
        exactly. I looked at the railway map, counted only 11 major highways entering from Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and Moldova. This is just rail transport. Not counting, as you correctly wrote, roads. Nothing can be solved there by single sabotage groups. And it is not possible to deploy a large military formation in the local forests - it will be destroyed quickly enough. It is necessary to assign the title of Kovpak to Alexei and Android and send him there to partisan. Let him implement his initiative not in tyrnet, but in reality wink
        1. +2
          8 February 2023 07: 25
          Quote: Ka-52
          Let him implement his initiative not in tyrnet, but in reality


          So all the same, do you personally think how Russia can win this conflict? What should be done? I'm not kidding, it's really interesting.
          1. +5
            8 February 2023 07: 26
            Quote: Shoulder straps
            Quote: Ka-52
            Let him implement his initiative not in tyrnet, but in reality


            So all the same, do you personally think how Russia can win this conflict? What should be done? I'm not kidding, it's really interesting.

            It depends what you mean by victory.
            1. -3
              8 February 2023 07: 35
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              What do you mean by victory?


              The preservation of Russia within its borders, the preservation of Russian statehood, the cessation of hostilities and the death of our soldiers and civilians.
              1. +4
                8 February 2023 07: 46
                Quote: Shoulder straps
                The preservation of Russia within its borders, the preservation of Russian statehood, the cessation of hostilities and the death of our soldiers and civilians.

                So this war is directly opposite to these goals. No one attacked us, no one threatened our borders, no one killed our soldiers and citizens.
                1. +5
                  8 February 2023 07: 52
                  Quote from cold wind
                  Quote: Shoulder straps
                  The preservation of Russia within its borders, the preservation of Russian statehood, the cessation of hostilities and the death of our soldiers and civilians.

                  So this war is directly opposite to these goals. No one attacked us, no one threatened our borders, no one killed our soldiers and citizens.


                  Then what is the meaning of what is happening now?
                  I remember at the beginning of the JMD there were statements that Ukraine was preparing an attack on Crimea and Donbass in the coming weeks. And, having started the NWO, we frustrated these plans for Ukraine.
                  True, the Russian public was never provided with any evidence that Ukraine was going to attack. Only words...
                  1. +5
                    8 February 2023 09: 47
                    Quote: Shoulder straps
                    Then what is the meaning of what is happening now?

                    1. While the NWO is going on, the Russian leadership can say that it is not lost.
                    2. As of today, under the military control of the Russian Federation there are territories that are "sorry" to give back to the Nazis, but Ukraine is not ready to recognize the LBS line as a new demarcation line according to the Korean version.
                    3. As they say in one anecdote, "they glued the wallpaper and began to settle down." SVO has its advantages for many inside Russia, and only they (more precisely, their nightingales) now have the right to vote. Thus, the signal is self-amplifying.
                    1. +2
                      8 February 2023 15: 06
                      As they say in one anecdote, "they glued the wallpaper and began to settle down." SVO has its advantages for many inside Russia, and only they (more precisely, their nightingales) now have the right to vote. Thus, the signal is self-amplifying.
                      That's for sure. Some sections of Russian society have never lived so richly (further quote from Murza): "And "people's millionaires" are walking around, each month receiving cash for 170+ thousand and, to be honest, sometimes littering them left and right. And all sorts of civilians who own shops and liqueurs ride past you in their brand new foreign cars, where, in fact, littering with money takes place."https://t.me/s/wehearfromyanina
                      1. 0
                        8 February 2023 17: 53
                        Quote: Wildcat
                        That's for sure. Some segments of Russian society have never lived so richly (further quote from Murza): "And there are" people's millionaires "walking around, receiving cash for 170+ thousand every month

                        Do not make me laugh. It's not about Lugansk drunks. We are talking about the Russian budget, which was mysterious before, and now it is doubly mysterious, and the transition of all foreign trade to gray schemes with an appropriate margin. In Russia, there were many people who were not at all in poverty before, and the NWO allowed itself to allow itself even more, and, accordingly, to prohibit others even more. And besides that, their financial exploits are also classified. See military supplies to the Russian Empire in WWI.
                      2. 0
                        8 February 2023 23: 03
                        We are talking about the Russian budget, which was mysterious before, and now it is doubly mysterious.

                        Yes, the budget is a complete admiration, what results - and everything was achieved in a year! "According to preliminary estimates, the federal budget deficit in January 2023 amounted to 1,76 trillion rubles. This is stated in the report received by the press service of the Ministry of Finance on the budget execution received by RBC. For comparison, in January 2022, a budget surplus of 125 billion rubles The budget law for the whole of 2023 planned a deficit of 2,93 trillion rubles.
                        The January record deficit was the result of a 35% year-on-year reduction in revenues, to 1,36 trillion rubles, and an increase in spending by 58,7%, to 3,12 trillion rubles, follows from the data of the Ministry of Finance.

                        https://www.rbc.ru/economics/06/02/2023/63e112679a794757f9fb1bf3"
                        And now"The Russian government is discussing with representatives of large businesses a one-time voluntary contribution to the budget from the income received at the end of 2022, which, according to him, turned out to be financially successful.
                        “A voluntary contribution from business, yes, it is being discussed, a one-time contribution. The fact is that the financial results of last year were very good, and many companies, especially in the first half of the year, for the first three quarters, the results were strongly positive, ”Interfax reports his words.
                        As Belousov noted, the issue of increasing taxes is not being raised. He clarified that the windfall tax format is meant, which means a one-time tax collection.
                        “This is viewed as a voluntary story, business is actively involved in this,” added the First Deputy Prime Minister.
                        "https://tvzvezda.ru/news/202328151-LMJWg.html
                        Wonderful, in a word.

                        moreover, keep your financial exploits secret
                        here they cannot classify telephone conversations, let alone financial exploits ... and in fact, RI reminds in the final.

                        Do not make me laugh. It's not about Luhansk
                        You underestimate Luhansk. And you underestimate the impact of 170 tr per month and other payments "in which case" for certain groups of society.
                      3. +2
                        9 February 2023 07: 43
                        Quote: Wildcat
                        Yes, the budget is a complete admiration, what results - and everything was achieved in a year!

                        These people have always worked well, and now they work even better. In three shifts, according to the laws of the special period.
                        Quote: Wildcat
                        in fact, RI in the finale resembles

                        Braces they said. Can repeat they said. We all thought they were joking.
                        Quote: Wildcat
                        You underestimate the Luhansk

                        You seem to have lost the understanding that neither "certain groups of society", nor even the Luhansk ones, have any meaning at all. It is nothing more than a resource. The easy money that Murz writes about is not a sign that Putin wants to appease them, but nothing more than mismanagement. It happens with the Russian budget and this, and even for years.

                        However, if tomorrow tough decisions will be made, then these people will have to treat with understanding . And who does not treat with understanding wise and invariably peaceful policy of the party and government, so it will instantly turn out that they were given a Russian passport by mistake. By the way, this also applies to Murza himself.

                        What matters are people who can influence the optics of the issue, so to speak. There are very few of them and none of them live in Luhansk. Continuing the analogy, what matters is know и yard, and not the local population of conditional Turkestan.
                      4. 0
                        9 February 2023 11: 16
                        These people have always worked well, and now they work even better. In three shifts, according to the laws of the special period.
                        In this difficult hour for the Fatherland, many even began to extract money in addition to oil wassat , straight out of the budget wassat "In 2022, oil companies will receive the highest ever payments under the damper, which was introduced in 2019 - they will amount to about 2,15 trillion rubles against 670 billion rubles at the end of last year, Kommersant writes. "

                        You seem to have lost the understanding that neither "certain groups of society", nor even the Luhansk ones, have any meaning at all. It is nothing more than a resource. The easy money that Murz writes about is not a sign that Putin wants to appease them, but nothing more than mismanagement.
                        Hmm, wait and see.
                        On the one hand, the example of "Mozgovoy-Bednov" seems to hint that you may not be so wrong ... on the other hand, the "conditional rightists", well, at least they can draw some conclusions with their own heads, at least from their immediate past?
                      5. +1
                        9 February 2023 13: 26
                        Quote: Wildcat
                        "conditional rightists", well, at least they can draw some conclusions with their own heads, at least from their immediate past?

                        All of these have already been dumped or retrained as house managers.
                2. +1
                  8 February 2023 10: 00
                  Quote from cold wind
                  So this war is directly opposite to these goals. No one attacked us, no one threatened our borders, no one killed our soldiers and citizens.

                  Well, formally Putin solved this problem. By federal constitutional laws 5,6,7,8-FKZ of October 4, 2022, a special military operation was transferred from the territory of Ukraine, the LPR and the DPR (the last two are partially recognized states) to the territory of the Russian Federation (Lugansk and Donetsk People's Republics of the Russian Federation, Kherson and Zaporozhye regions of the Russian Federation). (Let me note in brackets that if, say, the "Korean version" is signed today, the Russian Federation will receive the fact that Ukraine has occupied territories in 4 subjects of the federation, including two regional centers). Simultaneously with the distribution of passports (before February and after February), the problem of the absence of victims among the civilian population of the Russian Federation was solved. Now they are full.
              2. -3
                8 February 2023 07: 55
                The preservation of Russia within its borders, the preservation of Russian statehood, the cessation of hostilities and the death of our soldiers and civilians.

                I'll try to answer. Firstly, this NWO (let's call it the old fashioned way) does not set the goal of preserving Russian statehood. At least not in the near future. Secondly, there are many ways to achieve military-political goals. For example, the Americans defeated Yugoslavia without even setting foot on its land. Thirdly, I would generally beware of giving any recipes, since for this you need to understand the general strategy of this war. For example, I will assume 2 hypothetical options: 1. globally military. The offensive by large military groupings, the dissection of the theater of operations into several centers, the total destruction of the military and industrial infrastructure, the capture of most of the enemy’s territory and the establishment of his own administration in governing the country. Yes, this is what most people here like. Sometimes to myself.) Its disadvantage is that it will require a large outfit of forces. The economy and population of our country will have to leave the comfort zone (you will feel it yourself). Cons: losses will be orders of magnitude greater than in any alternative scenarios. Pros - everything will end quickly.
                2. Slow and systematic destruction of the statehood of the enemy. Direct and indirect destruction of its national potential. Direct and indirect destruction of its industrial potential. Ukraine as a state in my opinion is already doomed. She can’t even restore the industry, let alone the demographic losses, even more so. We are still haunted by the demographic pits of the 40s and 90s, but they were not as global as in Ukraine (about 1/3 of the population). There is no state of Ukraine - there is no strategic adversary, which the United States prepared from Ukraine. Advantages of the method: no need to attract large resources, lower losses. Cons: Takes more time.
                I have a vague suspicion that the second scenario is being followed at the top. Although at the beginning the former prevailed.
                1. +7
                  8 February 2023 08: 12
                  Quote: Ka-52
                  globally military

                  As I understand it, we are talking about general mobilization.
                  In that case, we're in trouble...
                  I have already said many times that this will have to be a truly general mobilization. So that it does not happen that millions of people will go to the front, and the rulers will continue to live in peacetime. This is where the problem lies. Are all our officials at all levels (including the military) ready to leave their comfort zone, to work hard, not for appearances, and in case of failures in work, to stand up against the wall? Personally, I have huge doubts about this.
                  And just like that, driving millions of people into the trenches - it seems to me personally useless and will not give anything but huge victims and an increase in social tension.
                  1. -4
                    8 February 2023 08: 35
                    As I understand it, we are talking about general mobilization.

                    mobilization is only a small part of the whole organizational machine. It will be about the entire state economy. Which will function in priority for the needs of the front. I will give an example, if it is not clear: during the Second World War, sometimes there was nothing to plow on collective farms, since tractors and draft cattle were mobilized for the needs of the front. Now extrapolate that to yourself. And understand
                    1. +2
                      8 February 2023 10: 37
                      Quote: Ka-52
                      I will give an example, if it is not clear: during the Second World War, sometimes there was nothing to plow on collective farms, since tractors and draft cattle were mobilized for the needs of the front. Now extrapolate that to yourself. And understand

                      Let's extrapolate this to you first. To understand.
                      Are you personally ready to give your wife (daughter, granddaughter) as a draft force to the "Agrocomplex named after N.I. Tkachev", owned by the family of the former governor of the Krasnodar Territory, and then the former Minister of Agriculture of the Russian Federation, billionaire Alexander Tkachev?
                      For Russia's victory over Ukraine, of course. Well, to improve the welfare of the Tkachev family at the same time - this is their Agrocomplex.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                2. old
                  +2
                  8 February 2023 08: 23
                  this SVO (let's call it the old fashioned way) does not aim to preserve Russian statehood.

                  If at first I didn’t, then now - very much so.
                  the Americans defeated Yugoslavia without even setting foot on its soil.

                  Minus the way right away: Ukraine’s air defense was not bad right away (thanks to Khrushchev, Brezhnev and Yeltsin), and then another was taken.
                  I would generally beware of giving any recipes, since for this you need to understand the general strategy of this war

                  Here's the point: if anyone knows the strategy of this "war", then not in Russia for sure.
                3. +2
                  8 February 2023 09: 27
                  Quote: Ka-52
                  Its minus - it will take a large outfit of forces

                  This is the second minus. First - if the enemy is many times stronger, then this option does not work.
                  Quote: Ka-52
                  Slow and systematic destruction of the statehood of the enemy.

                  )))
                  Ukraine now has a lot of problems, it's hard to argue with that. However, what, and statehood at its best over the past 30 years. This is even very disturbing: it was not enough to hear “If not Zelensky, then who”, “No Zelensky, no Ukraine” and other cosplay of the former fraternal people. To put it bluntly, statehood beyond the minimum required in Eastern Europe has always been a minus, not a plus.
                  1. -1
                    8 February 2023 10: 36
                    Ukraine now has a lot of problems, it's hard to argue with that. However, what, and statehood at its best over the past 30 years.

                    do not confuse the consolidation of power in the hands of a particular group during the war and the general potential of the state as such. It is clear that now in Kyiv there is no time for opposition and pluralism of opinions. Any oppositionist there now very easily crosses the line between a free person and a person sitting in the basement of the SBU with the stigma of "agent of Muscovites."
                    But I didn't write about that. Industry in Ukraine was in a deplorable state even before the war. And what will happen to her after the war? Can she rely on Marshall's plan? But will such a plan work in the conditions of Ukrainian corruption, which has not gone away? And most importantly, who will implement it? Ukraine has lost almost a third of its population in recent years. And these are working hands, brains, consumption, taxes, and so on. It is very difficult to recover from such blows, if at all possible.
                    1. 0
                      8 February 2023 11: 00
                      Quote: Ka-52
                      But I didn't write about that. Industry in Ukraine was in a deplorable state even before the war. And what will happen to her after the war? Can she rely on Marshall's plan? But will such a plan work in the conditions of Ukrainian corruption, which has not gone away? And most importantly, who will implement it? Ukraine has lost almost a third of its population in recent years. And these are working hands, brains, consumption, taxes, and so on. It is very difficult to recover from such blows, if at all possible.

                      Don't care about Ukraine. Maybe you should think not about what will happen to her after the war, but about what will happen after the war with Russia?
                      1. -3
                        8 February 2023 12: 29
                        about what will happen after the war with Russia?

                        Yes, we heard how you pans are discussing the Hague Tribunal over Russia after your "victory" laughing your gut is small
                      2. -4
                        8 February 2023 12: 33
                        Everyone will be all right. Our country will develop, and you can still go to gay parades in your European gun. Everyone who deserves lol Yes
                      3. +1
                        8 February 2023 18: 54
                        Quote: Rosemary
                        But what will happen after the war with Russia

                        There can be many things, but the endless series of unsuccessful dictatorships and unsuccessful democracies in economic stagnation asks for the most. Argentina.

                        Only without Messi and the World Cup, of course.
                    2. +3
                      8 February 2023 17: 30
                      Quote: Ka-52
                      Any oppositionist there now very easily crosses the line between a free person and a person sitting in the basement of the SBU with the stigma of "agent of Muscovites."

                      Not easy enough. By the way, a year ago, Zelensky himself, and especially his informal vice-president Yermak, was an agent of Muscovites.

                      Quote: Ka-52
                      But I didn't write about that. Industry in Ukraine was in a deplorable state even before the war. And what will happen to her after the war? Can she rely on Marshall's plan? But will such a plan work in the conditions of Ukrainian corruption, which has not gone away?

                      Yes, these are interesting questions.

                      On the other hand, Putin quite rightly wrote back in the summer of 2021 that Ukraine is an "anti-Russia" project - a clear example of how Russia would live without oil, but also without Putin. Officials, bandits, oligarchs, a mess, poverty - everything is the same, in many ways even worse (LDNR) - but there is no specific Putin, and with him spirituality, bonds, geopolitics and everything else. There was reason to believe that a visual comparison with time (and in 2021, in a different view) was not in favor of Russia.

                      Well, now Ukraine has a SVO fine and a potential Marshall Plan, and Russia has even more Putin, but much less oil - in the sense of buying less. Over time, we will see what came out more expensive.
              3. -2
                11 March 2023 04: 48
                Hmm..February 23, 2022..
                Russia is within the borders, there is statehood, there are no hostilities, no one dies ..
          2. old
            -1
            8 February 2023 08: 16
            So all the same, do you personally think how Russia can win this conflict? What should be done? I'm not kidding, it's really interesting.

          3. The comment was deleted.
            1. -2
              8 February 2023 12: 56
              to destroy Ukraine as a state.............
            2. -2
              8 February 2023 17: 03
              But in my opinion - who lost the most is Europe. As for hydrocarbons: Russia has largely replaced supplies to Europe with supplies to Asia, and as a result, Europe gets more expensive hydrocarbons, and Asia gets cheaper ones, with its growing economy. Using the latest technologies - did we get them from the West? We received the latest technology products, which is not the same thing. And now our electronics and food industry are gradually rising. According to the plans, experimental lithographs on the 28 nm process should start operating in 2-3 years (development work is underway, experimental samples have been working for several years). On the issue of Western investment, there are now more than 40 trillion rubles in savings in Russian bank accounts! The question is in creating an investment atmosphere, in which case the Western hucksters will go in a jamb.
              In Russia, there are plenty of their own developments, only they are "uncompetitive", which is why they were brought from the West, including all sorts of rubbish. And about sourdough - in general - is nonsense.
              1. 0
                8 February 2023 21: 04
                Quote from shikin
                According to the plans, experimental lithographs on the 28 nm process should start operating in 2-3 years (development work is underway, experimental samples have been working for several years).


                Must... According to the plan... How many times have we heard this from 2000 "Armat" to the base on the Moon.
                1. 0
                  8 February 2023 22: 09
                  Work in progress: https://www.ixbt.com/news/2022/10/21/rossija-sama-smozhet-proizvoditel-7nanometrovye-cpu-institut-prikladnoj-fiziki-ran-sozdaet-pervyj-otechestvennyj.html, what - there are no serious problems.
            3. 0
              8 February 2023 21: 03
              Quote: avib
              So all the same, do you personally think how Russia can win this conflict? What should be done? I'm not kidding, it's really interesting.

              And in my opinion (from the outside) - Russia has already lost. And it doesn't matter how the "hot phase" of the war ends. The West has already found alternative sources of hydrocarbons and will no longer buy them from Russia. The West has cut off the opportunity for Russia to buy the latest technology - from the food industry to electronics. In addition, Western investment in the Russian economy will apparently no longer be in the foreseeable future. Far Eastern partners (in principle, this is only China) ... being faced with the alternative of choosing with whom to trade between Russia and the rest of the world, it is clear who they will choose.
              Even 150 years ago, Russia - a self-sufficient country, could tightly close its borders and exist perfectly with a standard of living (at that time) no worse than any other country - an agrarian society - there is something to eat and a place to live - well, nice, albeit without frills .
              Now the situation is somewhat different. Without cooperation with the West, it is problematic to develop anything of your own ... the automotive industry, aircraft building, machine tool building, mining ... yes, everything is practically ... it turned out that all sourdough for sour cream in Russia is imported and it will soon run out but its not. Something like this. Quite pessimistic. Even at the height of the Cold War, cooperation with the West was much better. Russia has become a global pariah. Swaziland, Lesotho ... those are still partners for space exploration, and the Kalashnikov assault rifle can’t be smeared with bread. Well, this begs the question, as it were - what for was all this?


              Thanks for making me laugh.
              Especially about sourdough and the world's outcast.
              Do not rush to bury Russia, many tried to do this before you, and were globally mistaken ..
          4. 0
            April 2 2023 12: 00
            TNW attack on Poland. All bases are military to begin with. Do not calm down, all the major cities.
        2. fiv
          -3
          8 February 2023 07: 34
          There is a beautiful Latin proverb - a drop hammers a stone not by force, but by a frequent fall. Instead of sending kilotons of explosives to the key points of the railway network, you can send 100 times 10 kg, constantly, but not with a known period, so that no one would even try to restore them there, at the places where they fell. Then the load on other nodes will increase. And if their importance increases, then much more damage can be done there. The tactics of striking can be different, experts understand this much more.
          1. old
            0
            8 February 2023 08: 19
            Instead of sending kilotons of explosives to the key points of the railway network, you can send 100 times 10 kg of explosives, constantly, but not with a known period, so that no one would even try to restore them there, at the places where they fell.

            In any case, from a comparable number of Geraniums, all issues with railway logistics would clearly be closed. Another thing is more important here: no one even tried to do it!
        3. 0
          16 July 2023 13: 48
          Quote: Ka-52
          exactly. I looked at the railway map, counted only 11 major highways entering from Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and Moldova. This is just rail transport. Not counting, as you correctly wrote, roads. Nothing can be solved there by single sabotage groups. And it is not possible to deploy a large military formation in the local forests - it will be destroyed quickly enough. It is necessary to assign the title of Kovpak to Alexei and Android and send him there to partisan. Let him implement his initiative not in tyrnet, but in reality wink

          Well, if you looked at the map of the railways, you should have seen not only the railways themselves, but also the railway bridges.


          Destruction or incapacitation of railway bridges in western Ukraine will significantly complicate the delivery of weapons to the front line.
      2. 0
        16 July 2023 13: 41
        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        Quote: Lech from Android.

        I am struck by the Kremlin's stubborn unwillingness to destroy the logistical routes for the delivery of these weapons on the border with Poland ... what else needs to happen for the Kremlin to mature to resolve this issue. request

        It's just that in the presence of a good network of roads, everything in Ukraine has long been supplied in bulk on forklift trucks. Secondly, railways are easily restored. Even the "partisan army" could only stop railroad deliveries to the Wehrmacht.


        Destruction or incapacitation of railway bridges in western Ukraine will significantly complicate the delivery of weapons to the front line.
    3. 0
      8 February 2023 09: 06
      There is one change, we have captured a billion RPG ammo, as well as Mlav and Jewels. Here the task is to show the world what their tanks are capable of and how they burn from grenades, rockets and new t-90m. For here we are not Iraq.
      And with regards to supplies - politics. In terms of politics, ours forced them to get into this conflict (created by them) up to their ears. From this point of view, everything is fine, but from a civilian point of view, whatever it is, there is a percentage of deaths among civilians and the SRF, that hurts.
    4. 0
      4 May 2023 20: 46
      Parece que el truco está en desgastar a la OTAN y de paso reactivar la industria militar rusa.
      Es mejor esperar a que llenen los arsenales y luego reventarlos.
      Los tanques alemanes no aguantan combates de alta intensidad.
  2. -3
    8 February 2023 04: 34
    "The hatred of the countries of continental Europe towards Russia is understandable" - evil hates good, hence the hatred of Russia.
  3. +2
    8 February 2023 04: 37
    I read the book "Tigers are on fire" as a child. From my sofa in Tashkent I expect the same result with Leopards!
  4. -4
    8 February 2023 05: 10
    It would be very good if our valiant warriors organized the second Kursk Bulge for all these leopards! Maybe then the nemchura will come to his senses ...
    1. +5
      8 February 2023 06: 44
      Re-read the results of the Battle of Kursk again. Our losses were very serious. Yes, and how this can actually affect the German - firstly, they are not independent, and secondly, in any case, they have an economic profit.
  5. -1
    8 February 2023 05: 11
    when will Russia start crossing the red lines?
    That's exactly when? And who drew these lines?
  6. -5
    8 February 2023 05: 43
    There is a consistent and well-thought-out and implemented ruin of ... Europe. First, the Americans provoked the "Arab Spring" and Europe was flooded with refugees from Africa who do not know how and do not want to work, but want to live like in their homeland: robbery and robbery, but with 3 wives, and Europeans must feed them at the expense of their citizens. Then they provoked a coup d'état in Ukraine, as a result of which the Ukronazis came to power, who began persecuting the Russian-speaking population of the country. It was clear that Russia would not leave it so easily. In 2014, the Russian-Ukrainian conflict began. At that time obviously inadequate politicians came/were brought to power in European countries, who were literally seized by mass madness. They began to impose economic sanctions against the Russian Federation with persistence worthy of better use, which primarily hit their own economy. European companies, primarily German, due to the lack of raw materials and cheap energy from Russia, began to move to the United States. But if a plant, for example BMV, moves to Detroit, then the Americans, not the Germans, will receive wages there. Well, the Germans in unheated apartments, with their wives not washed due to lack of hot water, as well as a lot of free time due to lack of work, will go to Green rallies and glorify Mandalena Burbock, who brought them to such a state.
    1. old
      +1
      8 February 2023 07: 36
      The States also initiated the transition of Europe to green energy. It is, of course, very expensive, but it is so green. As a result, nuclear power plants were closed, coal mining was curtailed. It remains to blow up the gas pipeline with cheap gas (done), and then unscrew the price tag for LNG into space.
      1. +3
        8 February 2023 08: 54
        Quote: old
        The States also initiated the transition of Europe to green energy

        Actually, no. These are purely German games. The Americans openly trolled them even under Obama.
        Quote: old
        Nuclear power plants closed, coal mining curtailed

        Not quite.
        Quote: old
        It remains to blow up the gas pipeline with cheap gas (done), and then unscrew the price tag for LNG into space.

        Now the price of gas is LOWER than a year ago, BEFORE CBO. Europe's problems with gas began when it sat on the Russian gas stove. ITS FORCED them to get down (and even half a year they desperately resisted) - and the invisible hand of the market began to decide, despite the incredible efforts of the European Commission and the German government to spoil everything.
    2. old
      -5
      8 February 2023 08: 25
      There is a consistent and well-thought-out and implemented ruin of ... Europe.
  7. +2
    8 February 2023 05: 54
    Quote: Ka-52
    So I met cries like yours 100500 times, but I didn’t see real recipes.

    And I 100501 times met cries like yours that there are no real recipes ... as if justifying inaction in this direction.
    If so in the Second World War they reasoned like you, Hitler's Germany would not have been defeated.
    There are recipes, I'm sure of it ... I don't have the capabilities that our military department has to solve the interruption of supply chains ... otherwise I would strain our learned specialists and military historians to find a solution to this problem ...
    I certainly would not attract you with your indifference.
    For some reason, the experience of the Second World War is not used to organize sabotage on the railway lines of western Ukraine ... Starinova and Sudoplatova would be here ... they would find the right recipes.
    1. +4
      8 February 2023 06: 04
      And I 100501 times met cries like yours that there are no real recipes ... as if justifying inaction in this direction.

      Well now you are lying as usual. I never wrote that they say there are no recipes. I just asked you now - since you are waiting for the destruction of the listed logistics links, then you know HOW to do it. And if you know, please share. And in response, I read only blablabla and the translation of the arrows on me. So they would have admitted that the gut is thin to offer something. It’s always like this - it’s worth asking the next turbopatriot about the reality, so immediately he merges with the answer with the sound of pffff and the cry “the fool himself” request
      it’s funny about partisan detachments - firstly, the partisan movement always relies on the sympathetic local population, which is not even mentioned in Ukraine, especially in Western Ukraine. Secondly, the vast majority of WWII partisan detachments are fairly large formations. Now, taking into account modern detection systems, finding them and destroying them is not even a matter of days, but hours. Learn history not from pictures in magazines.
      1. -6
        8 February 2023 06: 19
        You don’t seem to shine with your mind ... I didn’t talk about partisan detachments ... I’m talking about saboteurs ... given modern realities, it’s not necessary to climb onto objects under surveillance cameras, it’s enough to use various UAVs ... by the way, on our territory, the Ukronats use this method.
        And it’s interesting if you put a beacon on the UAV and stick it at some station to a train with tanks or a length gauge ... it will turn out to be an excellent target.
        And do not smack nonsense about ultra patriots and pictures in magazines ... apparently you yourself are fond of this. hi
        1. +4
          8 February 2023 06: 50
          You don't seem to be bright..

          another blablabla. Give a method for evaluating someone's intelligence in general and mine in particular. Your "expert" opinion is not worth a penny :)
          I'm talking about saboteurs...

          you have already answered this above. Justified enough.
          .ksati on our territory, the Ukronatsiks use this method.

          let's give examples of massively derailed echelons with Russian military equipment. It seems to me that the longer we discuss this topic, the more stupid your arguments become.
          And it’s interesting if you put a beacon on the UAV and stick it at some station to a train with tanks or a length gauge ...

          ooh, the fantasies are gone laughing ok, attached. And then what? Finish your thought.
          1. 0
            16 July 2023 14: 09
            Quote: Ka-52
            You don't seem to be bright..

            another blablabla. Give a method for evaluating someone's intelligence in general and mine in particular. Your "expert" opinion is not worth a penny :)
            I'm talking about saboteurs...

            you have already answered this above. Justified enough.
            .ksati on our territory, the Ukronatsiks use this method.

            let's give examples of massively derailed echelons with Russian military equipment. It seems to me that the longer we discuss this topic, the more stupid your arguments become.
            And it’s interesting if you put a beacon on the UAV and stick it at some station to a train with tanks or a length gauge ...

            ooh, the fantasies are gone laughing ok, attached. And then what? Finish your thought.

            "Dear" a little more and what will happen to you is shown in the picture below.

      2. 0
        8 February 2023 06: 21
        It’s always like this - it’s worth asking the next turbo-patriot about reality, so immediately he merges with the request with a pffff sound and a cry “the fool himself”
        about partisan

        Yes, because it's easier to collect likes. This general earned epaulettes for what merits?
        1. -6
          8 February 2023 06: 28
          Quote: Sergey_tactics
          Yes, because it's easier to collect likes. This general earned epaulettes for what merits?

          I can give you the general's shoulder straps for nothing. smile
          I don’t attach any importance to shoulder straps and likes ... apparently they have some meaning for you ... since you started talking about them. hi
          For me, only knowledge and ideas matter ... and the critics of the ultrapatriots, as I see it, do not have very much ... like the mind. smile
          1. -1
            8 February 2023 06: 55
            Don't you vote. I've read your "knowledge and ideas" before. One pathos and populism. So any fool can yell from the couch - "why don't you fight right?! How long will we endure it ?!" And that's it, voila, likes from the subscriber to the general. Yes, do not kick, there are a dime a dozen of you here. What was he embarrassed about? wink right there, likes are evaluated not according to the principle of "correct-wrong", but according to the principle "like - dislike"
            1. -1
              8 February 2023 07: 06
              Something I don’t see your knowledge and ideas smile... with your mind, it’s easier for you to blame your neighbor for pathos and populism.
              You kick, I say what I think...as I see you don't like it...well, sorry for being direct. feel
              I always try to avoid getting personal...these are the rules of the forum...maybe you forgot about them. hi
      3. 0
        16 July 2023 14: 02
        Quote: Ka-52
        And I 100501 times met cries like yours that there are no real recipes ... as if justifying inaction in this direction.

        Well now you are lying as usual. I never wrote that they say there are no recipes. I just asked you now - since you are waiting for the destruction of the listed logistics links, then you know HOW to do it. And if you know, please share. And in response, I read only blablabla and the translation of the arrows on me. So they would have admitted that the gut is thin to offer something. It’s always like this - it’s worth asking the next turbopatriot about the reality, so immediately he merges with the answer with the sound of pffff and the cry “the fool himself” request
        it’s funny about partisan detachments - firstly, the partisan movement always relies on the sympathetic local population, which is not even mentioned in Ukraine, especially in Western Ukraine. Secondly, the vast majority of WWII partisan detachments are fairly large formations. Now, taking into account modern detection systems, finding them and destroying them is not even a matter of days, but hours. Learn history not from pictures in magazines.

        "respected" you have spread demagoguery here.

    2. 0
      8 February 2023 07: 06
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      And I 100501 times met cries like yours that there are no real recipes ... as if justifying inaction in this direction.

      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      It's just that in the presence of a good network of roads, everything in Ukraine has long been supplied in bulk on forklift trucks. Secondly, railways are easily restored. Even the "partisan army" could only stop railroad deliveries to the Wehrmacht.
      1. -7
        8 February 2023 07: 28
        And remote mining, how do the Ukronazis do it?
        What prevents you from pouring petals on the slopes?
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. -1
              8 February 2023 08: 25
              Lech from Android.
              Today, 07: 51
              What about aviation?

              That is, to put our aviation on the brink of guaranteed destruction in order to throw petals, from which the maximum damage to the road train is torn tires? And which will be removed in 2 hours? Oh yes, this is indeed great wisdom! fool
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
        2. +5
          8 February 2023 08: 13
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          What prevents you from pouring petals on the slopes?

          Quote: Lech from Android.
          What about aviation?

          In order to use aviation, it is necessary to shoot down all NATO reconnaissance aircraft that transmit air defense information to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          I expect that you can finally offer at least something?
          Squeeze at least some normal sentence out of your direct gyrus in the skull.
          So you can't do it yourself?
          1. -7
            8 February 2023 09: 00
            Shooting down all NATO reconnaissance aircraft is not necessarily enough to paralyze their work with electronic warfare.

            I propose, do you?
            Where are your suggestions?
            1. +5
              8 February 2023 09: 51
              I propose, do you?

              you are suggesting some nonsense. Firstly, only a person who does not understand the principle of electronic countermeasures can write "paralyze the work of AWACS with the help of electronic warfare". You will not paralyze any AWACS, enough of the legend about Donald Cook to write. Secondly, NATO AWACS fly over the territories of neighboring states and you won’t even be able to clog data transmission channels at such a distance. Thirdly, if our planes put passive or active interference, they will attract even more attention to themselves, and quite realistically they will also receive an air-to-air missile aimed at the source of interference.
              1. 0
                8 February 2023 12: 04
                Did I say anything about Avaxes or Donald Cook?
                Do not pull the owl on the globe.
                I accept the rest of the arguments ... yes, sources of interference and radio signals attract attention to themselves ... but the Avaks are in exactly the same position, immediately attracting attention to themselves with the radiation of their stations.
                NATO E-3s fly over the Black Sea near our Sevastopol over neutral territory where it is quite possible to get it.
                1. 0
                  8 February 2023 18: 54
                  Did I say anything about Avaxes or Donald Cook?
                  You yourself wrote "Shooting down all NATO reconnaissance aircraft is not necessarily enough to paralyze their work with electronic warfare." Is this some kind of trolling?
              2. 0
                16 July 2023 14: 48
                you are suggesting some nonsense.


                Ka-52 so offer something. Or, apart from demagogy, there are no more proposals?
            2. +1
              8 February 2023 11: 49
              Quote: Lech from Android.
              paralyze their work by means of electronic warfare.
              How so?
              Quote: Lech from Android.
              I suggest
              Nonsense.
              1. -4
                8 February 2023 11: 57
                None of my opponents could offer something else. smile
                It's amazing ... they can kick others, but they themselves have little guts to offer.
                1. 0
                  8 February 2023 18: 56
                  None of my opponents could offer something else.
                  so because at this point in time there are no realistic scenarios to disrupt the supply. Partisans - nonsense, aviation - losses are not commensurate with the result, KR - do not incur sufficient damage + expensive and scarce. What other options are there?
                  1. 0
                    16 July 2023 14: 40
                    Quote: Arsen1
                    None of my opponents could offer something else.
                    so because at this point in time there are no realistic scenarios to disrupt the supply. Partisans - nonsense, aviation - losses are not commensurate with the result, KR - do not incur sufficient damage + expensive and scarce. What other options are there?



                    Arsen1 I personally wonder what you can offer?
                2. 0
                  8 February 2023 21: 05
                  Quote: Lech from Android.
                  It's amazing ... they can kick others, but they themselves have little guts to offer.

                  Quote: Arsen1
                  so because at this point in time there are no realistic scenarios to disrupt the supply. Partisans - nonsense, aviation - losses are not commensurate with the result, KR - do not incur sufficient damage + expensive and scarce.

                  I totally agree.
                3. -2
                  11 March 2023 06: 34
                  Perhaps they simply don’t exist .. All this should have been thought about earlier, but the whole bet was made on *Throw to Kyiv in three days* ..
                  Didn't roll..
                  No more good scripts
              2. 0
                16 July 2023 14: 43
                Quote: Dart2027
                Quote: Lech from Android.
                paralyze their work by means of electronic warfare.
                How so?
                Quote: Lech from Android.
                I suggest
                Nonsense.



                Dart2027 so offer what you think is not nonsense.
    3. +1
      8 February 2023 07: 06
      The density of the population armed with telephones in those areas is off scale, I have no idea how partisan activities can be carried out under such conditions. That's only if someone picks up drones with explosives, but I imagine collateral damage can't compare to effective.
    4. -7
      8 February 2023 07: 08
      There are recipes, I'm sure...

      There are many, from a raid by strategists with concrete-piercing and conventional bombs (remember Hanoi), to the use of tactical nuclear weapons ...
      But unfortunately this requires political will, but it is not.
      1. -3
        8 February 2023 07: 18
        There are many, from a raid by strategists with concrete-piercing and conventional bombs (remember Haiphong), to the use of tactical nuclear weapons ...
        But unfortunately this requires political will, but it is not.

        You finish school first, and then talk about "political will". Because I think it’s excusable to carry such nonsense only to an unlucky schoolboy laughing
        1. -1
          8 February 2023 12: 36
          You finish school first, and then talk about "political will". Because I think it’s excusable to carry such nonsense only to an unlucky schoolboy

          Yes, and what blows, when in the Russian Federation such cheers-bots live and unharmed on sofas, while the mobilized people are grinding ...
          First, it is necessary to destroy the external enemy, and only then take on the external
          And so this cheers ... how they go to his sofas, they will run with xoxls to fraternize, like WWII policemen. Not for nothing is it against strikes on Ukraine
  8. -1
    8 February 2023 06: 16
    In case of victory, Ukraine will receive combat aircraft, anti-tank helicopters, long-range missiles, and much more.


    Ukraine will receive all the weapons that the West has, regardless of whether the breakthrough is successful or not.
    The delivery of long-range missiles so far rests on the red line that Russia drew and voiced on them in the first months of the NMD, because even stubborn Americans have an understanding that everything can very quickly slide down to that same nuclear war and to a very quick cleansing of Ukraine and Europe with tactical nuclear warheads using conventional and hypersonic missiles.
    After all, even in the event of a loss in Ukraine, the United States will have the entire EU to plunder, and if the Russian red lines cross, the United States may have nothing left. Moreover, the United States is well aware that in the event of a direct clash with Russia, they will never be the world hegemon and its replaced by China.

    PS and by the way, what kind of new weapon is "anti-tank helicopters"?
    1. +2
      8 February 2023 08: 48
      Quote: lopvlad
      rests on that red line that Russia drew and voiced on them in the first months of the NMD, because even stubborn Americans have an understanding

      )))
      Somehow spitting on the red lines. But if you put some card on the table, then this card is no longer in your hand. For NWO Americans, this is clearly not a matter of life and death, so they have nothing to fuss about.
      Quote: lopvlad
      war and to a very quick cleansing of Ukraine and Europe with tactical nuclear charges using conventional and hypersonic missiles.

      )))
      According to known data, the backlog of the Russian Federation in nuclear forces is the same as in conventional ones. Everyone who wanted to know the size of the gap between "known data" and the real state of affairs learned last year.
      However, this does not mean that Russian nuclear forces, like conventional ones, cannot kill quite a lot of people. Killing people, especially civilians, is, frankly, not the most difficult task. All rational politicians take this circumstance into account.
      Quote: lopvlad
      if the Russian red lines cross, the US may have nothing left.

      )))
      Russian patriots love to beg for a full-scale preemptive strike.
      1. -5
        8 February 2023 09: 06
        Dill patriots love to scare Russian patriots with a preemptive strike ... they become impudent before our eyes.
  9. 0
    8 February 2023 06: 35
    When the Leopards burn down in Ukraine, the Abrams will take their place in the armies of the EU countries
    A simple and with the influence of the United States on Europe, a simple plan for making a profit of their military-industrial complex and the desire to make sluggish Europeans even more dependent on the United States with the weakening of their military-industrial complex. By purchasing weapons from the Americans, the Europeans automatically become dependent on their spare parts, repairs, maintenance. The question arises whether it is worth spending money on the development of new types of weapons if new and technologically advanced can be bought in the United States.
  10. +1
    8 February 2023 07: 53
    Quote: Serega1
    "The hatred of the countries of continental Europe towards Russia is understandable" - evil hates good, hence the hatred of Russia.

    This is not hatred, this is a potential difference. The force of pressure to the east is inversely proportional to the amount of own resources.
    1. +1
      8 February 2023 08: 25
      Quote from Kuziming
      The force of pressure to the east is inversely proportional to the amount of own resources.

      A rather strange statement, given that Americans have been recorded as Russophobes number 1 since the late Stalin, then and now the main and raw power of the world, too. Russophobes number two are usually recorded by the British (again, from the second half of the 40s) - also not the most problematic country in terms of raw materials. While traditionally scarce Japan does not pay much attention to the Russian Federation, for some reason
      1. +1
        8 February 2023 08: 49
        the times of the late Stalin are recorded by the Americans - then and now the main and raw material power of the world too.

        that is, when the Americans fought the Saddam regime, they did not even think about Iraqi oil? And the powder in Powell's test tube was actually anthrax? But Gaddafi was really a tyrant for the population of Libya and the deposits in Buri and Serir have nothing to do with it?
        In general, the Americans have always fought for geopolitical influence in the world. And being a world leader in geopolitics means managing resources. Anyone and everywhere.
        1. +1
          8 February 2023 17: 43
          Quote: Ka-52
          that is, when the Americans fought the Saddam regime, they did not even think about Iraqi oil?

          Generally don't care. By the way, ask for yourself who is currently producing oil in Iraq.
          Quote: Ka-52
          Was the powder in Powell's test tube really anthrax?

          Powell justified the absolutely senseless decision in the social security. Bush's NWO is not very different from Putin's. In addition to the quality of performance, of course.
          Quote: Ka-52
          Gaddafi was really a tyrant for the population of Libya and the deposits in Buri and Serir have nothing to do with it?

          Gaddafi - who is this at all? Who is currently exploiting the mentioned deposits?
          Quote: Ka-52
          In fact, the Americans have always fought for geopolitical influence in the world

          In fact, the Americans in the coffin saw this as your "geopolitics". But the federal government and the president personally need to somehow demonstrate their usefulness, and in internal affairs there is no sense from him.
  11. -2
    8 February 2023 09: 37
    Quote: Negro
    . While traditionally scarce Japan does not pay much attention to the Russian Federation, for some reason

    Do not lie ... the Japanese are now crying out of Kuril fish resources.
    1. -1
      8 February 2023 17: 45
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Kuril resources.

      The Japanese, let me remind you, once squeezed out the entire Far East, what kind of fish resources are already there. By the way, the Americans just kicked them out of there.
  12. 0
    8 February 2023 09: 46
    destroy each other in a fratricidal war to the delight of overseas puppeteers. That's the most important thing, the rest is water. Tanks, like other equipment, are destroyed. Main skill.
  13. +1
    8 February 2023 09: 57
    Early decommissioned tanks in the infantry. Their role on the battlefield is still the same as in WW2 - to enter the gap and strike into the depths of the enemy's defenses
  14. -2
    8 February 2023 10: 04
    Here it should be mentioned separately that the mattresses bred the Germans to supply EXACTLY the latest modifications - A: the penultimate one before the A7, which are generally almost piece-by-piece. And the MOST modern German tanks will burn, while the mattresses will tell that they say that the Hussites burn not the Abrams, but the ancestors of the Abrams, the real Abrams is out there - Sep. 3 with uranium armor, he is impenetrable, not like these burnt Germans.
    And the Germans will burn without options.
  15. +1
    8 February 2023 13: 44
    Europe came out of the two world wars ruined, but America enriched! "Uncle Sam" always warmed his hands on someone else's misfortune! Don't the Europeans understand this?! fool fool fool
  16. +1
    8 February 2023 17: 30
    dozens of Leopard-2 MBTs are already on their way to Ukraine, but thirty-one Abrams MBTs will be delivered only in a few months. Only thirty-one Abrams tanks, while the Leopard-2 MBT is likely to be delivered in many hundreds, and it is they who will effectively burn in the frame, burying the prospects of the German tank industry
    According to other sources, American tanks are promised to deliver much more, and German tanks will by no means bury their industry, its funding is increasing. Yes, and the losses are unknown what will be ...
    1. 0
      8 February 2023 20: 00
      Yes, the pepper is clear, there will be no losses. Doprut to Moscow.
  17. +1
    8 February 2023 21: 46
    Let there be no competition between the US and Germany for contracts for hundreds of tanks. The production capacities of both countries are already loaded to such an extent that they cannot cope even with the rather modest existing contracts. The fulfillment of the Hungarian contract for 70 Leopards threatens to be delayed until 2030. And after the closure of tank production in France, Britain and Italy, the Germans and the Americans had no competitors among Western countries. So there will be enough orders for everyone, these tanks may not be enough for customers.

    But to whom the situation definitely benefited, it was South Korea. Even before the SVO, they did not complain about orders, and now, it seems, they turned out to be the only manufacturer of armored vehicles offering to supply modern "Western-type" vehicles quickly, reliably and without political lowing. And, since the Koreans did not have time to switch to "post-industrial, IT, green energy", then they are able to increase output. They have already grabbed a huge Polish contract, or there will be more.
    1. +2
      9 February 2023 09: 15
      Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
      So there will be enough orders for everyone, these tanks may not be enough for customers.

      Consider the NWO as a struggle of imperialist predators, namely General Dynamics and Kraus Maffei - Nexter is a feature geopoliticians from the Russian Internet. Brew such porridge for the sake of kush well, a billion dollars a year for several years is definitely the geopolitics of the brain crossed out bone marrow.
      1. 0
        9 February 2023 19: 30
        Unless if the European countries, looking at the current disgrace, decide to return to the defense policy of the Cold War model. When, for example, the French planned to have 1800 Leclercs, and not like right now. It still won’t pay for the brewed porridge, but at least it will be possible to discuss it without awkward laughter.
  18. 0
    10 February 2023 14: 23
    However, it's their choice.


    "After all, we do not choose the roads, but the roads choose us."
    The trait of a bald man is their choice. Not masochists yet, especially on grandmas get large.

    Tanks bring money not only when they are sold, but also later. I sold fifty tanks to some Poles, and then you’ll be cutting money for a few more years. Service, repair, modernization, supply of components and consumables, money goes for everything ... nonsense.
    And if these tanks go to Ukraine - that's it, finish, drain the water ... Ukrainians will not pay anything, and the tanks will not last long. And the Poles will unfasten the money to the Yankees or whatever Koreans.
    No, it's definitely not their choice. The master forced and had to obey.
  19. 0
    10 February 2023 21: 32
    Why send "Abrams" to Ukraine? So that they burn out after the "Leopards" ?! Has anyone seen a video about the fact that they just took and bombed this same Abrams from the ATGM and flames soared to the sky. I generally keep quiet about what happened to the crew ...

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned), Kirill Budanov (included to the Rosfinmonitoring list of terrorists and extremists)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev Lev; Ponomarev Ilya; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; Mikhail Kasyanov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"