Russian ATGMs against NATO tanks in Ukraine

An example of the resistance of the Leopard 2A4 to domestic anti-tank systems. Source: topwar.ru

Paradoxes of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

A careful analysis of the events in Ukraine reveals surprising paradoxes of the propaganda of the Kyiv regime. From the very beginning of the special military operation, two heroes were appointed as the main savior - the Javelin ATGM and the Panzerfaust RPG. Panel with artistic images of this weapons circled the whole world. And how many times have videos of the defeat of Russian armored vehicles by the Ukrainian ATGM "Stugna" been published?

Naturally, exceptionally successful missile hits leak into the network - it is not known how many times the vaunted anti-tank systems missed their targets. In fact, Kyiv propaganda devalued the role tanks on the field, more precisely - in the course of active offensive operations. But as soon as the West announced the confirmed deliveries of a company of British Challenger 2s, a company of German Leopard 2A6s and a company of Polish Leopard 2A4s, a “win” immediately occurred in Kyiv.

By the way, the formidable-looking 2A4 is the same modification that was burned in 2016 by the terrorists of the Caliphate banned in Russia. Under the Syrian El-Bab, they knocked out ten Turkish tanks with captured Russian Kornets-E. And this is according to the German version, which sought to disguise the true level of armor protection of German tanks.

According to other information, the terrorists worked on the Leopard 2A4 with ancient “Baby” and “Bassoons” from old Syrian stocks. The effectiveness of light anti-tank weapons turned out to be so high that the Turks were forced to radically change the tactics of using armored vehicles. The Leopard 2A4 was transformed from an offensive weapon into a mobile cannon that opened fire from afar after a preliminary artillery raid and careful reconnaissance.

Similar story with the destruction of the Saudi Abrams M1A2S in the war against the Houthis and the loss of at least 23 Abrams M1A1M from 146 tanks of the Iraqi army. All this equipment was knocked out and burned mainly from Russian and even Soviet missiles. It was after such sad experiences that the Western military-industrial complex finally thought about equipping tanks with dynamic and active protection systems.

However, such machines will not appear in Ukraine.

First, it is very expensive.

And secondly, combat-ready tanks that can destroy ammunition on the way, even in NATO, are few in number.

But the Armed Forces of Ukraine persistently repeats the mantra that with Western tanks "they will show Russia."

Meanwhile, the anti-tank power of the Russian army is considered one of the most significant in the world.

Through the NATO armor

To complete the picture, the sore points of Russian anti-tank artillery of all stripes should be noted. In order not to be accused of hatred moods.

First of all, there are no third-generation anti-tank systems in the army that operate on the principle of "fire and forget." Russia has no analogues of the famous Javelin. In the event of the destruction of Western tanks, this can be critical due to more advanced enemy observation and guidance devices.

Simply put, the crew will not be able to quickly retreat after the launch of the rocket, and the crew of the conditional Leopard 2A6 has more chances to hit the operator with return fire than, for example, the T-72B3. Simply because the gunner and commander see farther and better.

Leopard 2A6. Source: vk.com

Working on NATO tanks from long distances is likely to become typical in the Ukrainian theater of operations. The Armed Forces of Ukraine will protect valuable and scarce equipment, not rolling out tanks to the forefront. Especially the Challenger 2 with its rifled gun, which is more accurate than its smoothbore counterparts. That is why the crews of NATO armored vehicles will be reluctant to engage in tank duels, which are not common even now.

Some flippantly compare the Leopard in the Ukraine to the appearance of the Tiger on the eastern front in 1942-1945. The Germans then tried to shoot Soviet T-34s from long distances, out of reach of 76-mm and 85-mm guns. A beautiful story of the potential superiority of the Teutonic engineering genius, if not for one thing - the presence of Russian anti-tank systems of various calibers and purposes.

It is interesting that Western technology for the most part is completely devoid of dynamic protection - one of the main tools in confronting cumulative ammunition.

The most powerful and most all-weather anti-tank missile system of the Russian army. Source: wikipedia.org

The Russian army has one major advantage - the ability to destroy armored vehicles from the air. The Armed Forces of Ukraine have already been deprived of such luxury, except for drones with grenades from World War II.

In addition to the fact that an ATGM operator from a helicopter is able to detect a tank-type target at a much greater distance than from the ground, the missile also often approaches the target at angles and angles that are comfortable for hitting.

To eliminate expensive NATO equipment, it is quite possible to use non-specific for tanks guided missiles LMUR or "Product 305". This two-meter product with a launch range of 14,5 km is capable of hitting the Challenger and Leopard even at the stage of operational deployment.

A cheap means of destroying equipment is the Malyutka ATGM, which can even be mounted on Mi-8 transport helicopters.

But it's all, of course, exotic.

Special operations became mainstream aviation complexes "Shturm-V", "Ataka-V" and long-range "Vikhr-M". The last two are capable of working on targets at a distance of up to 10 km. If the morally obsolete Sturm is far from always able to hit a tank in the forehead (armor penetration up to 650 mm), then the rest of the helicopter-based missiles do not care where to hit - the cumulative jet passes up to 1 mm of homogeneous armor.

One of the champions in defeating tank armor is the Khrizantema-S self-propelled ATGM. Tandem-cumulative ammunition 9M123 is able to overcome up to 1,2 meters of armor behind dynamic protection. The big disadvantage of this complex is its bulkiness. The mobile launcher is located on the BMP-3 platform, equipped with fifteen missiles with automatic reloading and high visibility on the battlefield.

Not only is the vehicle clearly visible in thermal imagers and other tank monitoring devices, it is also visible in radar mode. Chrysanthemum-S has a radio beam guidance mode. With the spread of anti-radar AGM-88 HARM, this may be fraught with missile crews.

Less noticeable on the battlefield are the Shturm-S and Shturm-SM self-propelled anti-tank systems on the MTLB platform. In the latest modification, the vehicle is equipped with a thermal imager and a 9M120 Ataka missile with armor penetration up to 950 mm behind dynamic protection. And a locator for bad weather is also provided here.

In the light class, the Kornet anti-tank system plays, in various modifications it is installed both on armored vehicles and in a portable version. The 152-mm rocket of the complex strikes armor with a tandem warhead to a depth of 1–200 mm. The army has "Cornets" on the chassis of the armored car "Tiger" and the tracked platform BMP-1.

As part of the Berezhok module, in particular on the BMP-2, this complex can do a lot of trouble to the enemy if used correctly. You don't have to look far for examples.

During Operation Desert Storm, it was the Bradley BMP with Tow ATGMs that filled more enemy tanks than the neighboring Abrams. Berezhka has four missiles in its clip. It is only necessary to detect the NATO vehicle before it sees the BMP.

With a successful combination of circumstances, against the frontal armor of the Leopard and Challenger, tank guided munitions of the Reflex and Svir complex with armor penetration of 650 to 850 mm behind dynamic protection, depending on the modification of the missile, can also be used. Even the obsolete 9M117M missile of the Sheksna complex for the 115-mm T-62 cannon is capable of penetrating up to 600 mm of NATO armor normally.

The best infantry fighting vehicle of the Russian special military operation, the BMP-3, is equipped with a 100-mm cannon - a launcher capable of operating Arkan missiles. And this is a range of 5,5 km and a defeat of up to 750 with dynamic protection, 850 without it.

All of the above does not describe outdated anti-tank systems, which, we hope, are quite a few in army storage depots. This is the “Competition” with the “Bassoon” from the 70s, and the “Phalanx” with the mentioned “Baby” from the 60s.

At the same time, ATGMs are just one of the tank destruction systems. The Russian army is armed with a lot of ammunition capable of burning NATO vehicles, both at close range and at a distance of several tens of kilometers.

So we definitely have something to meet the trio of Challenger, Leopard and Abrams, and I'm sure they have never seen such a warm welcome.

Comments

[Proxima]

Throw caps after this article. This is understandable that any tank has a whole arsenal of means to disable it. The same situation was in World War II, but nevertheless, tanks were produced in tens of thousands. Disappointingly another, here the effect "with the world on a thread" is shown. First, British tanks, then American, German, French ... Now the Swedes are probing the soil, then South Korea? Then the West will once again throw off tanks in a circle, and so on. And we don’t even show “concern” anymore, and the “red lines” are already tired of drawing the hand. What for? No one is looking at them anyway.

[Ezekiel 25-17]

Red line: this is the use of nuclear weapons on the battlefield. You are ready?

[Proxima]

Quote: Ezekiel 25-17

Red line: this is the use of nuclear weapons on the battlefield. You are ready?

Well, do not rush you to extremes, dear. Remember how the West carefully and for a long time "cast the bait" about the supply of NATO armored vehicles. We waited to see how Russia would react. There was no sharp reaction from the Kremlin. Would it be possible to at least start by threatening to break off diplomatic relations with any of these countries? Yes, there are not many levers of pressure, but they are there. We just ate it all up. Now we will see all this menagerie near our borders.

[Civil]

During Operation Desert Storm, it was the Bradley BMP with Tow ATGMs that filled more enemy tanks than the neighboring Abrams. Berezhka has four missiles in its clip. It is only necessary to detect the NATO vehicle before it sees the BMP.

An extremely incorrect comparison, in Iraq, they first gained complete air superiority. Since the 30s of the last century, the conquest of air supremacy decides everything on the offensive. I mean high-tech armies.

[Cympak]

The success of the Bradley during Operation Desert Storm is the presence of a thermal imager, which makes it possible to shoot Iraqi tanks with impunity at night. Because the Americans had a thermal imager and the Iraqis didn't.
By the way, I remember only one case when our BMP used a standard ATGM.

Berezhka has four missiles in its clip. It is only necessary to detect the NATO vehicle before it sees the BMP.

This may be the main problem - NATO technology has better thermal imagers.
What needs to be done is to equip the BMP-2 with Berezhok with a remote launcher for the Kornets + remote control, like the Stugna-P. In this case, there are more chances to go unnoticed and destroy enemy armored vehicles.
And it's time to replace "Competitions" with "Cornets"

[karabas-barabas]

If an infantry fighting vehicle with "Berezhk" is supposed to be the first to see Abrams, or Leo2, then in order to launch an ATGM at it, it is necessary to begin the process of aiming and highlighting with a laser beam. The anti-ATGM system is already on the T-90M, according to the tankers themselves. The system has laser sensors throughout the tank and in a fraction of a second they tell the FCS exactly where the beam is from, the turret turns there, at the same time the tank closes the smoke screen, which disrupts the tank’s backlight and the gunner or tank commander takes it into their sights and hits the target. From the start of using laser guidance, until a rocket hits a tank, it takes from half a minute, this is too much for a modern tank, since the tank is faster than its projectile before the calculation of the ATGM, or the infantry fighting vehicle will deliver. In general, it is high time for all available 2nd generation ATGMs with laser illumination to come up with a remote control, 50 meters away, since seconds can pass from the detection of an ATGM calculation to its destruction. Stugna showed herself very well. Even after the first shot, there is a chance to go unnoticed, since those who are being shot at will begin to target the place from where they flew in, and there is no one in the tepak, although for reloading someone needs to run away and hang up the rocket.

[Garris199]

Well, the tank detected the ATGM radiation and turned the turret, but will it get it with a shell? ATGMs have a longer range than a tank projectile. It is clear that the tank under the ATGM will not always be substituted at a comfortable distance, but still. Well, God himself ordered the helicopters to work "remotely", the lion's share of the success of our anti-tank defense will depend on how the turntables work.

[svoroponov]

There, in Iraq, at first helicopters worked, and tanks only finished off the rest. Yes, and it’s not about tanks, but about donkeys loaded with gold for the highest command staff, they decided everything.
Well, in Ukraine there will be no long-range battles. And will be on medium and close. Spring and summer are green. And with those fishing lines and forest belts plus vegetation, and our low technology, it will be difficult to see the target for 5 km and put it into the sight. So they will converge to closer distances when attacking or working from ambushes. And here the skill of the crew and the maneuverability of equipment already play a role, the chances of being hit by cannons are equalized, and for other enemy equipment, even with ATGMs, when booking and actively protecting the armor of our tanks, their chances of surviving drop sharply.
Well, ATGM operators and new methods and techniques need to be prepared additionally. Our ATGMs are not bad. There they and Merkav screwed up at one time destroyed or seriously damaged up to 56 pieces (although there they also used TOU on them, but not enough).
In addition, it is necessary to prepare sappers as well as means of remote mining (there are jumping mines to defeat the technicians). Well, helicopters, well, how could it be without them. Yes, and front-line bombers with mines - roof-breakers in cassettes on parachutes, and there are missiles with cassettes and similar installations. It's up to the command.

[Dron_sk]

And if both opponents are "high-tech" and approximately equal? Why are you not considering this option? In Korea and Vietnam, who had "total" air superiority?

[insafufa]

Quote: Proxima

Would it be possible, at least to begin with, to threaten to break off diplomatic relations with any of these countries?

Well, the USSR supplied weapons and food to the Vietnamese. The United States also showed concern, but did not touch the airfields with our advisers. So always someone draws who put their device on all this. And they taught at home and fattened the goners of the Vietnamese so that they could fly on an airplane.

[Ozark]

I'm pleasantly surprised that someone finally made the Vietnam connection. It's seems to me that America is doing nothing different than the USSR did then.

[Dedok]

YOU or WE?
which side are you on?

Sorry, I'm not smart enough to write a normal comment

[qQQQ]

Quote: Ezekiel 25-17

Red line: this is the use of nuclear weapons on the battlefield. You are ready?

Sooner or later it will come anyway. We cannot resist the whole of NATO. Therefore, why lose your people, it is better to work out the logistics in Western Ukraine, then the "partners" desire to climb will resolve naturally.

[Negro]

Quote: qqqq

Therefore, why lose your people, it is better to work out the logistics in Western Ukraine, then the "partners" desire to climb will dissipate naturally.

From a nuclear strike on a non-nuclear state, the first to suffer is the big yellow master Xi. So there is an opinion that the big yellow master Xi suggested to the great geopoliticians that this is not necessary.

[Alf]

Quote: Negro

From a nuclear strike on a non-nuclear state, the first to suffer is the big yellow master Xi

Why Si?

[Negro]

It’s funny to say, but the United States has only one violent one trying to create nuclear weapons (plus two more already have it, plus Comrade Xi), but Comrade Xi has 2 countries around that can get nuclear weapons in a month, 1 country (while Comrade Xi is her country does not count) - roughly speaking for a year, and two more countries - for several years. All these countries do not like Comrade Xi and have territorial disputes with him. Plus the same two violent ones as the United States (by the way, the "correct" border between Russia and China may turn out to be in a very unexpected place for Russia), plus India with nuclear weapons, plus the United States directly with its "Pacific NATO". So Comrade Xi is at least as interested in the nonproliferation regime as the United States.

I’ll tell you more, there are even more countries that will relatively quickly acquire nuclear weapons, meaning Russia, than Xi. But the security of Russia is usually not interesting for patriots - they would only die with music.

[Repellent]

Quote: Negro

It's funny to say, but...

... some Ukroamerican misunderstanding, calling himself an African American (a tribute to BLM, apparently), still continues to play out here. Strange, don't you think?

[Alf]

Quote: Negro

It's funny to say

Thanks, interesting.
P.S. I asked a question, I got a minus ... How many idiots gathered at VO ... If only one went out to a fair fight, but no, they will shit quietly and remain silent .. I remember a joke, like one Svidomo at a parade in Moscow as a protest in his bloomers shit...

[Dron_sk]

The point here is not patriotism, but knowledge of physics, mathematics, macroeconomics and military affairs. All countries that you think can get nuclear weapons and with which you are trying to intimidate Russia and China here - even if they receive a "recipe" for nuclear weapons with the help of the United States, they are definitely not capable of producing nuclear weapons in more or less threatening quantities. The production of nuclear weapons requires huge resources. And everything that they can produce, the Chinese air defense / missile defense system will shoot down on approaching its borders, so that the country itself that used nuclear weapons will suffer. For it is not a problem for China to saturate the borders with "disputed" countries with air defense / missile defense systems, and this has already been done for the most part. Plus, there is no need to write off Chinese intelligence, which is in any case present in all those countries and will warn if these countries try to get nuclear weapons. Plus, there is no need to write off the adequacy of the leadership of those countries that, although they take a pro-American position, still see perfectly well that Russia does not threaten them and only defends itself from NATO, so there is no such mortal threat for them that they strive to get nuclear weapons and use it, ruining your country.
In a threatening amount of nuclear weapons, only Russia and the United States have them.

[Anatoly Proskurin]

Yes. And that's right. Cools the head. And enlightens.

[YOUR]

Quote: Proxima

First, British tanks, then American, German, French ... Now the Swedes are probing the soil, then South Korea?

You can’t find what to call soil probing for the free transfer of expensive property, when the closest partners like the United States take it by the throat in a strange way

[NOMADE]

I agree, I would see how the author will manage the "baby" live)

[Sergey028]

A tiny or as old as pterodactyl shit "bassoon".

[Negro]

Quote: Sergey028

A tiny or as old as pterodactyl shit "bassoon".

Strelkov whined that there was not enough SPG-9 for everyone, so Fagot had yet to be obtained in battle.

[Diverter]

shooters rare g ... and a weakling. It should have been forgotten long ago. And no one will ever forget Slavyansk or forgive him.

[ch28k38]

Completely different control complexes, I found both in service, though already at officer training camps. The "Baby" nozzles have only extreme positions, so the operator is trained for a long time and persistently. Its place is at the launcher. which stands on the ground or on the BRDM. "Fagot" is installed on the BRDM, the firing position can be in the rear a few kilometers, and the gunner with PU - in the first line of trenches, the guidance system is semi-automatic, it is enough for the gunner to keep the target in the crosshairs of the sight. Changing position after a hit is a matter of a few seconds. So things are not aged, the RPG-7 is more than 60 years old, but has not lost its relevance.

[svoroponov]

Why is everyone so obsessed with the Javelins? What is bad pointing with the help of laser illumination. You saw the target through the guidance device. Until the target lock is activated, the tank does not see you. Activate the laser illumination, it's 1-3 seconds to hold on the target, and launch the rocket. Let the speed of the rocket be 700 meters per second. 4 km to the target. First, the tank sensors need to determine the threat and give the command to turn the turret to a given sector or to turn the tank to meet the threat to support the most protected forehead. This is 15-20 seconds, if he determines all this and turn around somewhere at least would be 45-90 degrees or turn the tower in the direction of the threat. After turning, you still need to find a target in a given sector with a determination of the range to it. And the rocket is already flying and the operator holds the tank in sight. 700 * 8 - 10 seconds and the rocket hits the target at a distance of 4 km. I slightly increased the time to accelerate the rocket. That is, the greatest danger of detecting the operator is when the tank is moving straight at you, and the greater the angle, the more time you have to complete the combat mission.
Well, now take the application in the conditions of Ukraine. Forest plantations, windbreaks, grasses and low shrubs. The fear of running into mines with a tank will determine the path of its movement, which is now evident from the technique of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. So our ATGMs and Javelins, in principle, ensure the complete victory of ATGM operators without destroying them.

[Alexey Alekseev_5]

Srochku served as a BMP driver. The armament included a baby bird. The operator controlled normally. Training and again training on simulators. Even after a month of training, I showed good results. At the final check, my operator confidently slammed the projectile into the target.

[skeptick2]

Quote: Proxima

At least throw caps after this article

I have already started.
The soul sings right after reading this article.
It is not clear, however, why is Mr. Peskov spawning then, commenting on the supply of Western tanks? After all, everything is fine with the beautiful marquise?

[Dismas]

What was the situation like in World War II? Anti-tank artillery and ... melee fighter. Attack aircraft (Il) when did they just go into battles against tanks? During the Battle of Kursk. It was precisely the losses of the anti-tank guns of the Red Army that forced the use of the latest KV and T-34 tanks as anti-tank artillery. From here came these tank duels with the creation of monsters in the form of "Tiger" and "Mouse". At the time of the invasion of the USSR, the main tank of the Wehrmacht was generally the T-IV and the task of the tank was not a tank duel (tanks and artillery of the enemy had to be knocked out by artillery and dive bomber aircraft), but the suppression of infantry defense units.

[Negro]

Quote: Dismas

At the time of the invasion of the USSR, the main tank of the Wehrmacht was generally the T-IV

Hand face.

The four is a tank of the 43rd year. 42nd - troika with a long cannon, 41st - troika with a short cannon, deuce and 38 (t).

[flint]

What kind of nonsense you can’t read in VO :)) The four was produced from 37 to 45 and was the most massive tank in the Reich.

[nickname7]

At least throw caps after this article

The main thing is that the minister of defense and his 5 deputies who did not serve in the army did not decide that we would throw hats on leopards, otherwise it would turn out like with himars, they said nonsense, and then 10 warehouses flew into the air.
Generalis tactics are usually developed when grief happens.

[svoroponov]

The Minister of Defense went through this, some of them have not seen this during their entire service in the army. Consider he managed the army, based on the organization that he practically created and led for many years. Well, in terms of command - even those generals and a little lower in rank who commanded in Chechnya, Syria, it seems that the military have not coped with the tasks all their lives, look at the reassignments. The main thing is that he quickly draws the right conclusions and makes decisions. Yes, and it’s not Ukraine that is fighting against us, but much smarter brains.

[1 z1]

For the generals you listed, grief, in principle, cannot happen. They will lose the feeder here, they will go to "dear" partners and will not grieve. Maybe they will even give some kind of bonus.

[a timof]

Do you know how many really new tanks are produced in the post-industrial West? That new Abrams are not produced at all in the USA?
But the data on the Germans. They have a total of about 600 Leopards, four types, mostly produced in the 80s, moreover, of varying degrees of serviceability / readiness.
Leopard 1 - 88 pcs.
Leopard 2A4 - about 200
Leopard 2A6-223
Leopard 2A7-98
How much do you think they can give Kyiv? Yes, it has already been calculated that no more than 150 cars will come from Europe, and even the United States can throw 34 repaired Abrams before the end of the year. And the Russian Armed Forces have already destroyed more than 1000 Ukrainian tanks (7465 tanks and other armored vehicles) during the NMD. And if Ukraine had been doing well with tanks, it would not be begging for Western vehicles like that now.
Western tanks will come in a rather sluggish stream of 20 vehicles a month, which will not allow creating any kind of armored fists.
Repair and maintenance will be very serious problems for Western tanks - for these things they will be dragged back to Germany and Poland.
And very importantly, Western tanks will not operate with the dominance of Western aviation in the air, to which they are accustomed. On the contrary, Russian front-line aviation will beat them

[brave]

Quote: Proxima

Throw caps after this article. This is understandable that any tank has a whole arsenal of means to disable it. The same situation was in World War II, but nevertheless, tanks were produced in tens of thousands. Disappointingly another, here the effect "with the world on a thread" is shown. First, British tanks, then American, German, French ... Now the Swedes are probing the soil, then South Korea? Then the West will once again throw off tanks in a circle, and so on. And we don’t even show “concern” anymore, and the “red lines” are already tired of drawing the hand. What for? No one is looking at them anyway.

What do you suggest, can you be more specific? To hit suppliers with nuclear weapons?
You yourself understand that the situation is a stalemate and the goal of the whole mess, arranged by the Anglo-Saxons, was exactly what it was - to drag the Russian Federation into a conflict on a territory convenient to them with maximum damage to us, but so that no one would touch them, but they could in every possible way participate in this indirectly. And their trap worked, we got stuck there. And they, just like us, are well aware that there are only two options for the development of events: either the victory of one of the parties on the territory of Ukraine and the conflict is settled; or the removal of the war for the territory and this is the beginning of the third world war with the use of nuclear weapons. Nobody needs the second option.
So what's the point of shaking the air about the red lines?

[Diverter]

1. In fact, the state of the Russian Federation is extremely beneficial ...... delaying the NWO.
the longer it is carried out, the more real the collapse of the EU, because the economy is falling and falling apart. And the EU rests solely on the money of the fascists and frogs. Thus, instead of a strong and large enemy, we will get many small, weak, dependent mongrels. It is also beneficial for mattresses, for the same reason, because after all this they will receive a good market. This is unprofitable for Uncle Xi and the Indians because they are losing this market.
2. The third world war ("Cold" 1947 - 1991) is long over.

[Skeptic3]

When was the last time you opened statistics on GDP in different countries?

[1 z1]

The EU has been "falling apart" since its formation Seriously, what are the prerequisites for the collapse of the conflict on the territory of Ukraine? So far, it provides a huge amount of cheap labor resources, including highly professional ones. Gas and oil are supplied stably, but more expensive, but again, the price must be looked at by concluded contracts, and not exchange rates.

[begemot20091]

Enough already. It is better to organize a competition in VU not for health, but for the mind. And then we recruit "excellent students" from the back of the desk, and then we start our studies with 2 + 2 = There should be the toughest selection. The best of the best Provide everything you can and can't. Our judge receives a pension of 100 thousand rubles, and a "warrior" with a full length of service 35-40. And even then not everywhere. Close legal budgetary places every 2-3 times and economic ones. They spawned ... Security guards in stores = only after being fired from the Ministry of Internal Affairs or the army. Conscription age is not allowed. And p-.....-in and other trash for forced re-education. And, of course, to conduct a tax audit of all "people's and non-people's" "POOR" .. Earned, no problem. Didn’t earn money, ran away - get a medal for taking the Mortise Lars, confiscation of property (up to the second generation and relatives involved) and the sky in a box for 25 years.

[Vladimir_2U]

Simply put, the crew will not be able to quickly retreat after the launch of the rocket, and the crew of the conditional Leopard 2A6 has more chances to hit the operator with return fire than, for example, the T-72B3.

A problem, but it is partially reduced by the supersonic flight speed of ATGMs, the installation of ATGMs behind an obstacle, and the fact that not all tanks are equipped with missile launch detection sensors. Although the remote control of the ATGM launcher would certainly not hurt.

Not only is the vehicle clearly visible in thermal imagers and other tank monitoring devices, it is also visible in radar mode.

The low silhouette, long range and launch from behind cover reduce this threat. Well, tanks are not equipped with search radars.

Chrysanthemum-S has a radio beam guidance mode. With the spread of anti-radar AGM-88 HARM, this may be fraught with missile crews.

It can’t, the control antenna is narrowly focused, low-power and only operates during the flight of the rocket.

[KCA]

HARM is not a problem at all, why will they be launched? If something suburban takes off, then it quickly lands strictly vertically, you haven’t heard about the downed MIG-29s for a long time, and this is the only HARM carrier in / on

[VicktorVR]

To paraphrase a well-known expression, it is not so important what kind of anti-tank systems you have, it is important how you own it. Naturally, it is impossible to compare the baby on the BRDM and modern complexes on the mtlb / bmp3, yes.

But skill comes with experience, and these are just launches.

[AdAstra]

But unfortunately at war and with blood."""""

[Mikhail Drabkin]

The Russian army has one major advantage - the ability to destroy armored vehicles from the air .... It is only necessary to detect the NATO vehicle before it sees the BMP. .

- The Russian Armed Forces do not have air supremacy. There is a tactical, temporary superiority. Air defense systems of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are effective.

—-Reconnaissance, goal-setting and observation are tied to quadrocopters, the stable penetration of which to the level of the platoon is not observed. The last one is solved.

[Negro]

Quote: Mikhail Drabkin

stable penetration of which to the level of the platoon is not observed. The last one is solved.

If the Americans are not able to fasten Chinese imports.

[Boris Sergeev]

In a word, we are not talking about the elimination of supply routes. We are not even talking about lowering the level of diplomatic relations with tank supplier countries. Let the helicopter pilots take the rap!

[Nastia makarova]

only on the battlefield..............................................

[Arsen1]

how do you plan to "eliminate supply routes"?

[nickname7]

on lowering the level of diplomatic relations with tank supplier countries

Diplomacy is already reduced to the limit, just like the West to the light bulb, now if the Irish are given money and weapons?

[Old electrician]

On March 27, 2003, a convoy of 39 American armored vehicles was moving into Fallujah. The column consisted of 8 tanks - 5 "Abrams" mod. M1A2 and 3 mod. M1A1; 2 self-propelled guns M-109M; 2 BMP "Bradley" M3 and 7 M2; 12 light wheeled infantry fighting vehicles of the American "marines" LAV-25A3; 5 armored personnel carriers M-113; the installation of the Hellfire ATGM based on the M-113 armored personnel carrier and two light Avenger air defense systems based on the Hammer armored jeeps. From the air, the column was covered by a Super Cobra attack helicopter.
At 17:45 the convoy was attacked by one (!) Iraqi Mi-24V helicopter. The helicopter was equipped with an asymmetric combination of weapons - APU-4 with four Shturm-Ms (firing range up to 5 km) on the left outer pylon and APU-60-2 with two R-62Ms on the right. Blocks with 40 S-8KOM were located on the inner pylons, and on the ends - on the APU-2 with two Shturm-M1 (firing range up to 6 km) on each. After 7 min. after the start of the attack, the Super Cobra burned out on the ground, 2/3 of the personnel were out of action, and the Abrams tank and one BMP M3 remained from the equipment. The ensuing duel between the F-18 and Mi-24V ended in a draw.
Already on March 28, 2003, the Iranian Al-Arabia TV channel showed excerpts from a video recording of the onboard camera of an Iraqi helicopter that defeated an American convoy the day before. Those. there is a video recording - this is material evidence of the reality of this battle. More like a fight.
The very first Mi-24V attack became a disgrace to the Americans. Therefore, the Americans did not let the Al-Jazeera film crew to the defeated armored column, they only managed to film the smoke above the road.
After the defeat of the armored column, the official versions of the Americans were one "more believable" than the other. Initially, it was stated that it was a well burning. Then, in Schweik's style, it was stated that it was the United States that had heroically destroyed a convoy of Iraqi armored vehicles, although the types of vehicles were also identified by a non-specialist. Later, the United States generally pretended that nothing of the kind had happened - this is their official point of view at the present time.
The problem with the Americans is that their army is oriented towards war with the natives, armed with bayonet knives taped to bamboo sticks. And even then, provided that the local fifth column will sell these natives to us with giblets. As it was in Iraq and when Soviet troops entered Afghanistan.
The US controls the world's media. The goal is to create an image of an invincible ov army. For the sake of this, the media shamelessly lie. So, for example, the Americans take out a helicopter that was shot down and almost completely burned down in Afghanistan to the rear as a repairable one and then, on the sly, write off, to the nightingale singing of the media about another victory. Dill in terms of propaganda is their complete copy.

[parma]

Quote: Old electrician

On March 27, 2003, a convoy of 39 American armored vehicles was moving into Fallujah. The column consisted of 8 tanks - 5 "Abrams" mod. M1A2 and 3 mod. M1A1; 2 self-propelled guns M-109M; 2 BMP "Bradley" M3 and 7 M2; 12 light wheeled infantry fighting vehicles of the American "marines" LAV-25A3; 5 armored personnel carriers M-113; the installation of the Hellfire ATGM based on the M-113 armored personnel carrier and two light Avenger air defense systems based on the Hammer armored jeeps. From the air, the column was covered by a Super Cobra attack helicopter.
At 17:45 the convoy was attacked by one (!) Iraqi Mi-24V helicopter. The helicopter was equipped with an asymmetric combination of weapons - APU-4 with four Shturm-Ms (firing range up to 5 km) on the left outer pylon and APU-60-2 with two R-62Ms on the right. Blocks with 40 S-8KOM were located on the inner pylons, and on the ends - on the APU-2 with two Shturm-M1 (firing range up to 6 km) on each. After 7 min. after the start of the attack, the Super Cobra burned out on the ground, 2/3 of the personnel were out of action, and the Abrams tank and one BMP M3 remained from the equipment. The ensuing duel between the F-18 and Mi-24V ended in a draw.
Already on March 28, 2003, the Iranian Al-Arabia TV channel showed excerpts from a video recording of the onboard camera of an Iraqi helicopter that defeated an American convoy the day before. Those. there is a video recording - this is material evidence of the reality of this battle. More like a fight.
The very first Mi-24V attack became a disgrace to the Americans. Therefore, the Americans did not let the Al-Jazeera film crew to the defeated armored column, they only managed to film the smoke above the road.
After the defeat of the armored column, the official versions of the Americans were one "more believable" than the other. Initially, it was stated that it was a well burning. Then, in Schweik's style, it was stated that it was the United States that had heroically destroyed a convoy of Iraqi armored vehicles, although the types of vehicles were also identified by a non-specialist. Later, the United States generally pretended that nothing of the kind had happened - this is their official point of view at the present time.
The problem with the Americans is that their army is oriented towards war with the natives, armed with bayonet knives taped to bamboo sticks. And even then, provided that the local fifth column will sell these natives to us with giblets. As it was in Iraq and when Soviet troops entered Afghanistan.
The US controls the world's media. The goal is to create an image of an invincible ov army. For the sake of this, the media shamelessly lie. So, for example, the Americans take out a helicopter that was shot down and almost completely burned down in Afghanistan to the rear as a repairable one and then, on the sly, write off, to the nightingale singing of the media about another victory. Dill in terms of propaganda is their complete copy.

If there really was such a case, there is even a video recording - share it ... especially if this video was broadcast by Iraqi television, the Internet remembers everything (for example, it remembers Iraq’s statement that an “Apache” shot down a shepherd almost from a musket, though later it turned out that his shot down the elite division in the course of its complete destruction) ...
From the inconsistencies in your story, a mixed type of column is striking - the marines (only they had LAV-25s, but there were no “bradleys”, only the marines also had “cobras”) for the entire Iraqi company, together with the army, they did not interact at this level ( this is generally an eternal situation for amers), then what did the howitzers do there and what is the M109M in general? The only M109 with the presence of M in the index (well, from what I remember) is the Norwegian M109A3GNM, and if you decipher it (and NATO usually doesn’t have it difficult enough) these are the M109A3 ordered by Germany with their modifications (A3G steel), then Germany has them bought and modified by the Norwegians (A3GN), later upgraded and the machines were assigned the modern A3GNM index, and it was these machines that were transferred to Ukraine in the summer ...
PS: regarding the Ukrainian "propaganda" - over the past six months, this AFU staged a successful offensive near Kherson and Kharkov, and we only have the capture of "key" farms in three burnt huts ... and the Americans Iraq were crushed in 3 weeks, and Iraq in terms of population and army is similar to Ukraine on 24.02 ...

[Zoer]

Quote: parma

If such a case really happened, there is even a video recording - share it ...

This is a bike broadcast by uryakalkas for a long time.

[Old electrician]

This is a tale broadcast by uryakalkas for a long time

- I appreciate your unrequited love for the United States, but I do not share it. As I understand it, you belong to the category “Chief!!! Everything is gone!!! The plaster is removed, the client is leaving!!!”.
ATGM "Shturm" for 2003 was a completely modern ATGM. Comparing it with a musket is a demonstration of your technical illiteracy and love for the world hegemon of democracy. By the way, the KPVT Mi-24V has proven itself famously against the LAV-25A3, the M-113 armored personnel carrier, etc. technology.
Saddam had only 5 Mi-24Vs (this group of helicopters called themselves Desert Arrows), which destroyed 11 units in 96 sorties. armored vehicles, including 43 tanks. The Iraqis were flying from jump airfields camouflaged in the desert. Therefore, for some time, the general betrayal of the Iraqi generals did not affect the combat sorties of the Desert Arrows. Desert Arrows, by the way, used an original tactic. When launching an air-to-air missile at a helicopter, it descended, raising clouds of sand, which disrupted missile guidance.
When the situation became hopeless, the Mi-24V was transferred to Iran. To intercept them, the Americans raised everything that could fly in the area. However, only one Mi-24V was shot down. The Americans classified their losses in this battle. I don't think your love for Crystal City on the hill will be affected.

[Blackgrifon]

The Iraqi Mishki had extensive experience in both helicopter combat and tank work, but only for 91 years. But by 2003, the number of cars was declining, and in fact there were no cases of defeat of the Amer columns by crocodiles.

[yaglon]

Can you explain?
"M-109M" - what is it? M109A5? M109A6?
"LAV-25А3" - there is such a thing, work on this machine began in 2021 (you have 2003 here)
"Hellfire ATGM installation based on the M-113 armored personnel carrier" - there is such a thing in the very famous computer game Armored Warfare (by the way, a joint Russian-American development, and from the Russian side Mail.ru itself financed, and from the American side even the studio Obsidian did most of the work). This car is just a concept out of the game.

[Ingenegr]

Quote: Old electrician

KPVT Mi-24V has proven itself famously against LAV-25A3, armored personnel carrier M-113, etc. technology.

This could not be simply due to the fact that the KPVT was never installed on the Mi-24V.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Old electrician

Already on March 28, 2003, the Iranian TV channel Al-Arabia

what Iranian, Arabiya yet?! This is generally the UAE. This is all nonsense, as they said above, about a shepherd from a Berdanka who shot down an Apache. Exactly what is in Shveik's (I would specify in Marek's) style.

[Wildcat]

I saw the same!
Down there, the helicopter had a hefty wedge, it even broke through the armor of tanks from above. And the navigator-operator also distinguished himself, when the ammunition ran out, he opened his cockpit and destroyed several pieces of equipment, a company of marines, an army squad and a military police battle with personal weapons.
But the US controls the media, this will not be shown again ...

[stoqn477]

A very good hunting story. Surely in your helicopter aviation they do not hope for such success with four helicopters and not with one.

[prorab_ak]

Oh, these legendary reports from the Ren TV channel .... ask the orderly to switch the channel, or something for a change

[spirit]

Oh, these legendary reports from the Ren TV channel ...

Prokopenko was apparently sitting at the helm with Ren TV. It is strange that f18 did not shoot down, with his technology inherited from the Reptilians

[Bodipancher]

There are also missiles with self-aiming elements. They hit the roof. It’s the most against the tank fist)

[KCA]

Not rockets, but air bombs, here is the article
https://topwar.ru/135971-samopricelivayuschiesya-boevye-elementy-spbe-spbe-d-i-spbe-k.html

[Xenofont]

Do you exclude missiles from Tornadoes or Hurricanes from use? There are the same cassettes with self-aiming elements.

[Von_Schmidt]

The author is talking about some kind of air, but there is no one in this very air.

[Bingo]

There is another definite plus. From the same category that the tail wags the dog. ALL this dispersal of hysteria with supplies - both in Ukraine and in the West - has ALREADY led to unambiguous statements there "corridor to the Crimea", "spring offensive" - ​​in short, a lot.
Here, with proper use in defense, they could very well drink blood for us. But they will be thrown into the attack. And then excuse me - everything that they fall into burns. You just need to hit enough. And the closer you are to the enemy, and you yourself attack him, and not stand in the bushes under a cape ...

[Nikolaevich I]

"Horses, people mixed up in a bunch ..."! Why did this happen? Yes, Evgeny Fedorov just mixed them! Well, maybe the horses have nothing to do with it; but Fedorov mixed the ATGM "godlessly"! And such an article - "mumbling" turned out that there is no strength or sense to describe one's negativity with a comment, no words to swear! I will not comment on this "article" ... well, to hell with it!

[Alex 1970]

I may have forgotten something, but the little one is controlled by wires, no? And how to launch it from a helicopter then?

[Zaurbek]

They launched it somehow .... It stood on the Mi4 and on the early 24s. Tou also stood with wires on Cobra-Tou.

[Dedok]

some kind of diarrhea, not an article
imported ATGMs at the forefront of the Ukrainians lay in stacks - will we, Muscovites, also have stacks ready for use? - if not, then shut up "loudly" from your sofa

mind you, both Ukrainians and Muscovites wrote, and this bestial moderator left only Muscovites ...
So whose Wishlist does this site implement?
What is he preparing us for?

[Nastia makarova]

how many captured these complexes is enough for all NATO tanks combined

[Zaurbek]

MTLBs flash on the frames, and TIGERS with Cornet-D are not heard or seen. (There, aiming is carried out from the screen (like on Stugna) and the video would be easily scaled on the network (we can see it from helicopters). That is, these Tigers, apparently, are not in the troops.

[Blackgrifon]

Caught on footage in February. And then more often ATGMs on UAZ pickups shone.

[Zaurbek]

Performance is different. On the tiger and a target tracking machine and night optics and 8 pieces of ATGMs and two heads (there are actually 2 pieces of anti-tank systems)

[Blackgrifon]

Yes. But not only performance. The tiger is an armored car - fragments and riflemen are not afraid of it, but a pickup truck is just a write-off. On the other hand, a pickup truck (and in some places a buggy) is easier to find, the size is smaller and visibility (including in the column) is lower - it’s good not to carry troops.
But here is the question of the results of planning. Actually, if there were, in addition to the current tiger, a variant of a mass tiger in the dimensions of a lynx, and incl. in the version with anti-tank systems - it would be very useful. And so you have to use what you have.

[Zaurbek]

At the same time, ATGMs are just one of the tank destruction systems. The Russian army is armed with a lot of ammunition capable of burning NATO vehicles, both at close range and at a distance of several tens of kilometers.

At my military department (which were all dispersed along with art schools), we were taught on the MT-12 (100mm) and there were variations with ATGM, which was guided through a quantum rangefinder and a variant with some kind of miracle radar

[Alexey RA]

2A29K with ATGM "Kastet" and 2A29R with radar "Ruta".
Here is a photo of the last one - 2014, Ukraine, a "gift" from the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

[Zaurbek]

404e modern sight they put on a night

[stoqn477]

Quote: Wildcat

I saw the same!
Down there, the helicopter had a hefty wedge, it even broke through the armor of tanks from above. And the navigator-operator also distinguished himself, when the ammunition ran out, he opened his cockpit and destroyed several pieces of equipment, a company of marines, an army squad and a military police battle with personal weapons.
But the US controls the media, this will not be shown again ...

And when he spat, he drowned another platoon. Then, in the tradition of the desert, he jumped down and cut the company with one sword.

[spektr9]

Another capricious article
In fact, an analogue of the Leopard 2A4 and Abrams M1A2S, we have only one, this is the t-90m ...

[Nastia makarova]

and where did the infantryman in the grenade launcher go?

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: spektr9

In fact, an analogue of the Leopard 2A4 and Abrams M1A2S, we have only one, this is the t-90m ...

With respect to 2A4, this is downright ridiculous. All 80s, 72B3s and all 90s are many times better than A4 and A5.

But Abrams is for amers in the latest versions, indeed, a dangerous beast

[Zaurbek]

Yes, and A6-7 is not a gift. And the L55 gun is with the A4 and it is more powerful than our 2a46 of all versions. And NATO shells (Bops) are better for a generation.

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: Zaurbek

Yes, and A6-7 is not a gift. And the L55 gun is with the A4 and it is more powerful than our 2a46 of all versions. And NATO shells (Bops) are better for a generation.

Agree. Moreover, the A6 and 7 have an excellent LMS and a set of radiation sensors. But they should not be praised either, otherwise any gun and armor are dangerous if underestimated.

[Negro]

Quote: Blackgrifon

With respect to 2A4, this is downright ridiculous. All 80s, 72B3s and all 90s are many times better than A4 and A5.

Well, laugh. Leo2, like all tanks of the 80s, was created later than the Soviet trio T-64/72/80 and to fight it. Any Leo can shoot with modern shells, so if they brought uranium from the time of the second Iraqi and later, Russian tanks have nothing to catch. None of them.

As for protection, again it depends on the projectiles and the distance. Rumor has it that even Mango was not delivered to EVERYONE. So it depends on Leo's crew. If you don’t miss close and the board doesn’t show, it will be possible to repeat grandfathers. Tiger vs company T-34-76.

[Repellent]

Quote: Negro

it will be possible to repeat grandfathers. Tiger vs company T-34-76

Wet dreams of a Ukrainian African American. A fool is getting richer with a thought, yeah

What will happen if the Ukrainian is resettled in the States? Khokhol will remain Khokhol. The girl can be taken out of the village, but the village out of the girl - well, no way. Alas, Ukrainian American

[Negro]

Quote: Repellent

Wet dreams

What is it about dreams? You need to work here.

[Repellent]

Quote: Negro

Quote: Repellent

Wet dreams

What is it about dreams? You need to work here.

Well, you, I see - all at work.

Before you is an innovator mole,
He built an excavator
For a minute this mole,
Ruin the garden

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: Negro

Well, laugh. Leo2, like all tanks of the 80s, was created later than the Soviet trio T-64/72/80 and to fight it. Any Leo can shoot with modern shells, so if they brought uranium from the time of the second Iraqi and later, Russian tanks have nothing to catch. None of them.

How else do I laugh. Armor in comparison even with 64s is slag. DZ is not. Uranium scrap on leo is nothing more than mriya. There were none during Iraq 2003 or after.

Once again, whether you like it or not, leo 2a4 and 2a5 is a sacrifice for 72b3. Not to mention the calculations with the Cornets and Contests.
The real danger is leo2a6 and 2a7 due to the excellent control system and warning sensors. But they also have armor. This is despite the fact that 72B3, 80BVM and 90M carry a relic that fully justifies itself.

The real problem is not in the leos themselves, but in the fact that they (MBT) decided to supply them.

[Negro]

Quote: Blackgrifon

The real problem is not in the leos themselves, but in the fact that they (MBT) decided to supply them.

What a surprise.

Quote: Blackgrifon

This is despite the fact that 72B3, 80BVM and 90M carry a relic, which is quite

The relic they carry in the transmissions of the star channel. On the ground, they carry Contact 5. And this is another good option.

By the way, the effectiveness of remote sensing against kinetics is zero. Stories about knocking down crowbars with Relic/Malachite miracle modules - to the same channel.

Quote: Blackgrifon

The real danger is leo2a6 and 2a7 due to the excellent control system and warning sensors

It is difficult for me to name a tank that does not pose a real danger. Armata, perhaps. In this, I agree with the fans of the T-62M.

Quote: Blackgrifon

Not to mention the calculations with the Cornets and Contests.

Kornets (Soviet Tou) and Konkurs (Russian Stugna) are dangerous for Leo and Sovietoids alike. According to the review and SLA - you need to look at a specific car. Leo2A4 are also different.

Quote: Blackgrifon

Armor in comparison even with 64s is slag

)))
Well, the enemy is much weaker than the T-64. But I do not agree with your assessment of the T-64 - over the past year, the T-64, even the BM, has not confirmed its reputation (on the good side), as far as I follow.

Quote: Blackgrifon

DZ no

Who doesn’t?

Quote: Blackgrifon

Uranium scrap on leo is nothing more than mriya. There were none during Iraq 2003 or after.

You see, NATO smoothbore guns can have any compatible projectile (with some caveats). And the idea that the enemy will act strictly as you prefer has already failed a couple of times over the past year.

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: Negro

What a surprise.

Well, yes. It remains to be hoped that we will come up with a surprise in the form of the use of nukes. At least for demonstration purposes.

Quote: Negro

The relic they carry in the transmissions of the star channel. On the ground, they carry Contact 5. And this is another good option.

By the way, the effectiveness of remote sensing against kinetics is zero. Stories about knocking down crowbars with Relic/Malachite miracle modules - to the same channel.

Relic on T-80VBM and T-90M. And the star is useless here.
About the influence of remote sensing on kinetics and so on - after all, the Americans are fools, in response to the relic they bothered, they thought about the shells. And yes, they really bothered with shells because they quite reasonably believed that remote sensing was affecting.

Quote: Negro

It is difficult for me to name a tank that does not pose a real danger. Armata, perhaps. In this, I agree with the fans of the T-62M.

It's not about whether the old tank poses a threat or not (and yes, I myself am a fan of the T-62, but they need to be converted into something else), but whether it is able to have a general impact or not. The old T-72Ms with Polish and K-1 ukrovki burned out quickly and did not win any special victories. In reality, they did not have any effect on changing the front - here the numerical superiority in the infantry had its say more.
I don’t see the point in hoping that Leo 2A4 / 5, which are not very different in armor, will give an effect. The effect will be if they begin to be brought into battle en masse - by regiments and divisions on a narrow section of the front.

Quote: Negro

T-64. But I do not agree with your assessment of the T-64 - over the past year, the T-64, even the BM, has not confirmed its reputation (on the good side), as far as I follow.

I myself am not a fan of 64. But in versions with teplokami, smeared with dz, they were dangerous. Especially since there were personnel officers in them. And it is very good that the VSRF digested most of them without any problems.

Quote: Negro

DZ no

Who doesn’t?

DZ, comrade, there are no German cars. Americans put it on their cars (which the star mentioning to you is silent about). And they put shaves. But the Germans are not. And this increases the chances of birders. Moreover, the command took into account the risk of increasing targets for birders.

Quote: Negro

You see, NATO smoothbore guns can have any compatible projectile (with some caveats). And the idea that the enemy will act strictly as you prefer has already failed a couple of times over the past year.

Yes and yes. But the fact of the matter is that leo always went only with tungsten. Uranus - only the Yankees and the Angles had. And there is an assumption (and not illusory chances) that the Germans will never be given it.
And I agree with the enemy. But the use of uranium is the limit. In general, I think that it’s been about 6 months since it’s time to throw a couple of nuke at military facilities, incl. at the borders of Poland.

[Negro]

Quote: Blackgrifon

It remains to be hoped that we will come up with a surprise in the form of the use of nukes

Wow, you don't like Russians.

Quote: Blackgrifon

Relic on T-80VBM and T-90M

In theory.

Quote: Blackgrifon

yes, they really bothered with shells because they reasonably believed that remote sensing affects

So they froze, so as not to influence. There was a speech about M829A3.

Quote: Blackgrifon

but they need to be converted to something else

Considering how much the Soviet government made MBT, I don’t see any point. If possible, cut a 125mm trio. T-62 with Jewish tuning is good for those who are limited on newer cars.
In general, the best thing that could be done with the T-62 was to convert it into Akhzarit.

Quote: Blackgrifon

The effect will be if they begin to enter the battle en masse

The effect can be if it is possible to create large West-type connections with the implementation of the possibilities of network-centric warfare.
However, this does not change the fact that even the A4 is comparable to the T-90 in terms of performance balance due to the quality of the guns and shells. Leo with improved armor, from A5 and above, outperforms any sovkotank. Naturally, with proper use, a trained crew, reasonable command, blah blah blah.

Quote: Blackgrifon

But in versions with teplokami, smeared with dz they were dangerous

As I said, there are not so many non-dangerous tanks.

Quote: Blackgrifon

it is very good that the VSRF digested most of them without any problems.

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation digested the plant. Malyshev. After that, a hundred T-64BMs ceased to play any role. In Poland they cannot be repaired. So thanks to the Ukrainian governments that have been demilitarizing for 30 years.

Quote: Blackgrifon

DZ, comrade, no German cars

DZ, comrade, there are no German cars, because German cars did not go to work. And when someone went, the same Turks, the DZ appeared in a month. Accordingly, Ukrainians will instantly hang leopards with contact. Not TUSK, but it will go against LNG-9. Find Cornet.

Quote: Blackgrifon

The Germans will never be given it.

The Germans were already addicted to ecology and radiophobia. Ukrainians are unlikely to bother with this. And I hear talk about what else the Ukrainians will never be given for about a year. In particular, MBT will not be given.

[Negro]

Quote: Blackgrifon

The problems of the citizens of Poland and Ukraine are purple to me.

Citizens of Ukraine and especially Poland will take care of themselves. The news of geopolitics has already returned the eggs to the Germans - a year ago it seemed impossible - and after the nuclear weapons they will even agree with the Chinese about you. Nobody needs stalkers. All the more so.

Quote: Blackgrifon

On practice. Fact. Arguing about this is pointless.

)))
Of course, you can get confused, climb onto an enemy site and figure out what is stuck on the T-80 there. Well, okay, let there be a Relic. It's even more fun that way.

Quote: Blackgrifon

Opa. Those. already appears to have "influenced".

How do I know? Americans do a lot of things just to make it happen. I just pointed out that we are talking about a specific shot. I think we will see over time what is there with NATO tungsten. In any case, the T-64 with shells is extremely mediocre, so any NATO shells will be a boost.

Quote: Blackgrifon

How the T-62 tank will finally lose its significance in 10-15 years

He should have lost it 40 years ago. Again.
1. Any tank, starting with Centurion/M48/T-54/Leo1, can be brought up to a relatively decent level.
2. When there are 10K+ 125mm tanks left from the Soviet government, there is no need to pump junk. On the T-72, all the equipment that is needed to modernize medium tanks will be more useful.

Quote: Blackgrifon

Again. A4 and A5 were inferior in armor to the T-72B. Like it or not, this is a harsh reality. What exactly did the study of the T-72B become one of the reasons for the growth of Abrams' security. And the T-90A and T-90M from the T-72, T-72M and T-72A differ many times in their characteristics. This is despite the fact that the T-90 and T-90A are essentially no longer produced, but are brought to the T-90M in an accelerated mode.

)))
And, have you already switched over to the T-90M? I also come across T-72B3 there, to put it mildly, not every time.
Shtosh, if the Germans issued only DM13, and on the T-90 they gave ZBM48, plus the Relict manufacturers did not lie (which I find hard to believe) - it may turn out not so easy for the Germans, as with grandfathers. We will watch the course of events.

Quote: Blackgrifon

Without air supremacy it's all a dream

Some strange fatalism. Of course, it would be better to have your own AOI, but you had to work for 30 years, and not steal from each other.
So for now, the goal of the Ukrainian side is to get 10% of the AOI level. Let's see how it goes. IMHO the chances are 50/50.

Quote: Blackgrifon

Before the strikes on HKZ in 404, they managed to upgrade a rather large percentage of 64k

A little more than a hundred EMNIP.

Quote: Blackgrifon

but due to the fact that cars and experienced crews began to die.

Anything happened, but basically they just dropped out for technical reasons. They were also made two weeks before the English Channel. More precisely, until the first Bell AH-1 Cobra.

Quote: Blackgrifon

The leopards were still driving. They have been used for the last 20 years in Afghanistan

Two companies were used there, guarding the embassy, ​​Canadian and Danish. And then the Canadians seem to have sculpted something on the hull.

Quote: Blackgrifon

But the competition and the mestizo are one way or another a frequent guest.

Yes, on both sides.

Quote: Blackgrifon

Probably not in the next six months.

In the next six months there will be no tanks.

Quote: Blackgrifon

Although the delivery of the Abrams 404 is still to be expected for a long time, so that the media do not tell there. And it's not about learning.

Well, you know. We live in interesting times. I was personally sure that the T-72 would be enough for this year and the next. There was more of a problem with the BMP.

Quote: Blackgrifon

Whether you like it or not, all Leo A4/5s are significantly inferior to our main machines. You need to be afraid of them because of the excellent FCS and a good gun, but no more

Your main vehicle is T-72B3 with 3BM-44. In order to be significantly inferior to him, Leo must shoot with practical projectiles. No, you can screw up Leo too, you don't need a lot of intelligence. However, against the backdrop of the Soviet zoo of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, this is a clear gain. Of course, in the presence of trained crews, intelligent commanders, etc. etc.

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: Negro

Citizens of Ukraine and especially Poland will take care of themselves. The news of geopolitics has already returned the eggs to the Germans - a year ago it seemed impossible - and after the nuclear weapons they will even agree with the Chinese about you. Nobody needs stalkers. All the more so.

There are many bespredelschikov, but this is definitely not Russia. Especially in the light of the use of chemical weapons and provocations with them, constant acts of aggression, public threats, seizures of civilian ships in the international sea, blowing up a gas pipeline and other things. Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria - they won't let you lie.
The likelihood of an agreement with the PRC after the latter is increasingly called the "next" and "main" is doubtful.
Dreams of destroying or isolating Russia always end the same way.

Quote: Negro

Of course, you can get confused, climb onto an enemy site and figure out what is stuck on the T-80 there. Well, okay, let there be a Relic. It's even more fun that way.

I know very well where this fairy tale comes from and it's funny when intelligent people believe it. There are many fairy tales on the same enemy sites, but the reality is that the relic is on the machines. If you doubt the effectiveness of the relic, then this is another matter.

Quote: Negro

Some strange fatalism. Of course, it would be better to have your own AOI, but you had to work for 30 years, and not steal from each other.
So for now, the goal of the Ukrainian side is to get 10% of the AOI level. Let's see how it goes. IMHO the chances are 50/50.

When and where they did not steal is the topic of a scientific dispute.
This is not fatalism. This is objectivity. An analogue of the IDF was demonstrated in Syria. At a more massive level, an analogue was built in the Airborne Forces. Now this very analogue is, at the very least, spreading to the entire army. And in the end it will.
And the main problem is the dominance of the idea that it is impossible to conduct any other conflict except for a local war or a nuclear exchange and a misunderstanding of the significance of the WTO. Everything else is a consequence.

Quote: Negro

)))
And, have you already switched over to the T-90M? I also come across T-72B3 there, to put it mildly, not every time.
Shtosh, if the Germans issued only DM13, and on the T-90 they gave ZBM48, plus the Relict manufacturers did not lie (which I find hard to believe) - it may turn out not so easy for the Germans, as with grandfathers. We will watch the course of events.

Even according to open sources, you can see and calculate how many T-90Ms have gone to the troops since the fall of 22. Moreover, in addition to those that have already been built, there are also cars of 22 years old. And units on the T-90M more and more often shine in battles in different directions.
As for the T-72B3 and their "rarity" - a huge proportion of vehicles in the NWO is exactly what the T-72B3 is and they are constantly caught on the frames. Often also in a local body kit from K-1.

Quote: Negro

A little more than a hundred EMNIP.

BM, yes, but little things (communications, teplaki, even more remote sensing) were shoved into many cars.

Quote: Negro

Anything happened, but basically they just dropped out for technical reasons. They were also made two weeks before the English Channel. More precisely, until the first Bell AH-1 Cobra.

In addition to KhKZ, repair plants also functioned for a long time. And the fact that the HKZ was completely knocked out is unlikely.
For disposability, the tank does not have to be equipped with combined armor and FCS. And the t-64, unlike the M60, was equipped.

Quote: Negro

Two companies were used there, guarding the embassy, ​​Canadian and Danish. And then the Canadians seem to have sculpted something on the hull.

In addition to protection, they were used in operations and to cover columns. What about losses. I didn't notice the DZ in the photos.

Quote: Negro

Yes, on both sides.

LNG is used for support. To fight tanks - first of all anti-tank systems. I believe in my own words and the words of those who returned from there more.

Quote: Negro

Your main vehicle is T-72B3 with 3BM-44. In order to be significantly inferior to him, Leo must shoot with practical projectiles. No, you can screw up Leo too, you don't need a lot of intelligence. However, against the backdrop of the Soviet zoo of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, this is a clear gain. Of course, in the presence of trained crews, intelligent commanders, etc. etc.

MBT is not only a weapon, it is the sum of factors. And security is one of the most important components. We can argue for a long time, but all Leo2 modifications at the end of the 90s were inferior to the T-72B in terms of security with equal firepower, although they surpassed it in terms of engine and many times in terms of control system. Actually, their fundamental advantage was only one - the SLA - and after the appearance and introduction of Sosna, the machines became no longer advantageous for 4 and 5 Germans.
A6 and A7 are a different song and objectively only our T-80VBM and T-90M are at their level.

In one thing, I agree - the time is interesting and we will see what will happen next. Thanks for the interesting conversation.

[Negro]

Quote: Blackgrifon

There are many bespredelschikov, but this is definitely not Russia

How would you say. Nuclear countries many times staged a small victorious SVO, got hit by cabbage soup and crawled away. This happened with France, and with Britain, and with the USSR, and with the PRC, and with the USA in general, all the time - too restless. And imagine, it never occurred to anyone to get nuke and bring down the entire nonproliferation regime - after such a speech, nuke will appear from Finland to the Philippines in 5 years, a simple matter. And how the patriots in the same France came to diarrhea, it’s ridiculous to compare with the whining of the Z-public - they got to the Father of the Nation with a sledgehammer.

Quote: Blackgrifon

Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria - they won't let you lie.

)))
It is especially funny with Yugoslavia, which, as soon as the brothers of the Serbs were calmed down, moved in formation to the EU and NATO. At the tail of this system, just the Serbs are lagging. Which of the following countries, for example, recognizes the Russian view of borders in Eastern Europe?

Quote: Blackgrifon

The likelihood of an agreement with the PRC after the latter is increasingly called the "next" and "main" is doubtful.

The next and main comrade Xi became when Taiwan itched for him. So there are only questions for him. Naturally, the PRC is interested against the background of the Russian Federation to show itself as a responsible state, and not to be noted in the company of Russia, Belarus and North Korea.

Quote: Blackgrifon

Dreams of destroying or isolating Russia always end the same way.

So far, only Russian patriots are howling about this in the swamps. For better or for worse, we don't hear such far-reaching plans from the accursed NATO.

Quote: Blackgrifon

I know very well where this fairy tale comes from and it's funny when intelligent people believe it.

Are you talking about the fact that neither Relic nor Lead with Reflex can be found on the ground on cars? But cars with an empty remote sensing are visible? And instead of Mango 3VBK?
Of course, fairy tales, who would doubt it.

Quote: Blackgrifon

An analogue of the IDF was demonstrated in Syria.

)))
Are you talking about the Arab-American coalition? No, there was a land component from the locals in pickup trucks. Although the air yes, at the level. By the way, Ukraine has not yet reached this level, the Americans do not fly there themselves.

Quote: Blackgrifon

On a more massive level, an analogue was built in the Airborne Forces

)))
You have cruel jokes.

Quote: Blackgrifon

And the main problem is the dominance of the idea that it is impossible to conduct any other conflict except for a local war or a nuclear exchange and a misunderstanding of the significance of the WTO.

From this point of view, the main problem is that on Russian television, an expert on any issues is a political scientist. And the doctrine of limited warfare was invented under Kennedy.

Quote: Blackgrifon

and calculate how many T-90M went to the troops since autumn 22

10 cars per month approximately. And there are questions about their configuration.

Quote: Blackgrifon

As for the T-72B3 and their "rarity" - a huge proportion of vehicles in the NWO is exactly what the T-72B3

So I wrote that this is the "main" machine. But there is worse, and not only the T-62.

Quote: Blackgrifon

but little things (communications, teplaki, even more remote sensing) were shoved into many cars.

Yes, there was a gypsy camp "these 8 years." There are pros and cons to this situation. The same connection and quadrics in the Armed Forces of Ukraine grew from below, overcoming the resistance of the leading oaks. On the other hand, the same production of barrels and shells, not to mention medium-range missiles, will not grow from below - so, predictably, they turned out to be bare.

Quote: Blackgrifon

And the fact that the HKZ was completely knocked out is unlikely.

Kharkov does not work. The main (single) tank factory was initially located within the reach of enemy artillery from its territory, what could go wrong?

Quote: Blackgrifon

repair plants also functioned for a long time.

Yes, there seems to be something in Lviv, but mostly a "deep rear" behind a ribbon. And there is only T-72.

Quote: Blackgrifon

For disposability, the tank does not have to be equipped with combined armor and FCS. And the t-64, unlike the M60, was equipped.

Just for the M60 there are very serious upgrades. Up to replacing the tower with 120mm.

Quote: Blackgrifon

In addition to protection, they were used in operations and to cover columns.

This is not a job.

Quote: Blackgrifon

I am in my own words

)))

Quote: Blackgrifon

We can argue for a long time, but all Leo2 modifications at the end of the 90s were inferior to the T-72B in terms of security with equal firepower

There has never been equal firepower. In terms of security of the T-72B against the fifth Leo, I would not lean either.

Quote: Blackgrifon

A6 and A7 are a different song and objectively only our T-80VBM and T-90M are at their level.

)))
No.

[Alexey RA]

To eliminate expensive NATO equipment, it is quite possible to use non-specific for tanks guided missiles LMUR or "Product 305". This two-meter product with a launch range of 14,5 km is capable of hitting the Challenger and Leopard even at the stage of operational deployment.

There is one problem here - the "lemur" has a high-explosive fragmentation warhead.

[SergeyB]

Quote: Alexey RA

There is one problem here - the "lemur" has a high-explosive fragmentation warhead.

It's not a problem.
A warhead of 25 kilograms may be enough for a tank.
And if it’s still not enough, then I don’t see any problems equipping the lemur with a regular cumulative from some kind of ATGM.

[wladimirjankov]

High-explosive warhead but in 25 kg. with a direct hit, it can rip off the turret near the tank.

[Skeptic3]

Do other countries have hundred-kilogram anti-tank missiles? Isn't that too wasteful?

[Negro]

Quote: Skeptik3

Do other countries have hundred-kilogram anti-tank missiles?

There are more.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-65_Maverick

[Skeptic3]

Thanks for the link. Interesting.
I noticed that it states exactly what confuses me - these are very expensive missiles. Therefore, their number can be quite limited.

[Parvis rasulov]

Everyone writes about the BMP 2 with the Berezhok complex, but none of you are interested in how to reload all four missiles on it, during the battle you need to leave the battlefield to reload it.
Yes, and judging by many videos with this complex, the smoke inside the turret became much stronger than on a conventional vehicle, and the gunner, operator and commander of the vehicle are sitting with open hatches on the turret while firing from a cannon, of all the positives, this is the presence of an AGS and the fact that the range of missiles on the Cornet is greater than that of ATGMs

[Sasha Koblov]

All these infantry fighting vehicles and other self-propelled vehicles will be clearly visible in the thermal imager, so they cannot be used at night.
But inconspicuous portable systems mounted on simple tripods can be a gift for the enemy.

[runway-1]

So we definitely have something to meet the trio of Challenger, Leopard and Abrams, and I’m sure they have never seen such a warm welcome

It's good to meet them at home with a computer keyboard "at the ready", and not in a trench, figuratively speaking...

[Hagakure]

So the first. ATGMs are primarily defense means. Those. defensive lines should be formed or ambushes made using portable complexes. Well, the lines of defense before the attack will be processed by artillery. So, if the complex is not covered, maybe a khan to him. On armored vehicles, even on the same Tigers - this is how lucky. Basically, our armored vehicles are lightly armored, bulky, and there are not so many Berezhkovs on it as on TV, like it itself in the new versions. Can they be in the right place at the right time? Secondly, such stationary systems are by no means maneuverable, which means that it is not a fact that they will be able to be on the flank of the tank, that they will be able to hit the side. The frontal armor of Western tanks is calculated somewhere around 1200 mm. Third. About our helicopters in conditions of saturation of the enemy with MANPADS, I will keep quiet. Fourth, enemy tanks have advanced surveillance devices and can be network-centric, and our old ATGMs very often fail in real combat. The record of refusals from Vladlen Tatarsky is eight in a row. His interlocutor said five. After each had to cut the wire. This is not to mention those cute cases when the stabilizer did not open at the rocket and it flew off and turned in your direction. I wonder how long the enemy Leopard A6 will notice a couple of defective launches, which, by the way, raise dust, etc. and cover our fighters?
Well, since the battles, especially in urban areas, are very dynamic, it would be more interesting for me to hear about our new RPGs, with which you can try to really hit the tank on the roof, for example, from the fourth floor of a five-story building, or catch it on board in an ambush in a forest plantation or urban battle. Who is cooler than the RPG-7, against which everything is already protected in two layers? By the way, the Ukrainian side considers Nlow to be more convenient and successful for destroying armored vehicles than Javelins. Javelin is an ATGM, and Nlow is an RPG. And the enemy will be strong not with tanks alone. There will also be BMPs. By the way, the Bradleys are tightly protected in front and sides from our 30-mm BMP-2 cannons. Well, from the RPG-7 too.

[75 Sergey]

Do not forget that the Bradleys are already on their way, and some have arrived.

[Navy7981]

Optimism is good! But the main thing is the fighters! Good luck to them military!!!

[Puper driver]

Pretty stupid, from the world by thread, article. They are now a dime a dozen. Chrysanthemum-S is enough, on which the anti-RADAR AGM-88 HARM will be aimed. The author does not feel the difference. To him, that the radar, with a pie chart, that with a narrow guidance beam - everything is the same.

[nickname7]

Not only tanks will be delivered, but a set of weapons along with self-propelled guns, Bradley infantry fighting vehicles, communications drones, counter-battery systems and, in the future, F-16, not counting the training and training of doctors at Western bases
Approximately by March, 10 brigades will be equipped.

[Repellent]

Quote: nickname7

10 brigades will be equipped by March

Why not a hundred? Write a hundred that they, adversaries, feel sorry (s).

[Hagakure]

Not by March. By May, by the end of May, if the West stirs, it may very well be. But the West is slow. And not 10, but 3-4. The Ukrainians simply do not understand that they are acting as laboratory rats for American military calculations. They put Javelins there - it didn’t work. Well, nothing, they recruited new ones for mobilization, they gave Nlow and other RPGs, it seems not bad. They gave 18 Himars - not enough, they gave 18 more. Not enough for a quick victory, but in order to see what and how it goes - enough. The Americans have 8100 Abramovs in their own arsenal. In principle, it was even possible to send a hundred to Ukraine at once. But they also calve from the 31st. Those against, these will not understand where to find, etc. Bureaucracy... What do they really need? Deplete Russia with the help of Ukraine. Then move Ukraine aside and say, thank you, we will continue on our own without you and we can handle it ourselves. Have we helped you to ensure your territorial integrity? Be grateful. Here you live in your integral country with a destroyed economy, and we will go to skim the cream without you. So if I were Ukrainians, I would not be very happy. Kuban, they definitely can not see. It’s good if in Ukraine itself there will be someone left to defend Ukrainian interests before the Americans. And then, these naive ideas about the eternal freebie ... Well, the Russians need to move, so that the West does not "finally decide the Russian question." Otherwise, with such a rate of recovery of the military and civilian economy, there will be no business. Well, this is simple arithmetic: how much water is poured into the tank and how much is poured out. If more is poured out, the resource tank will be empty. And it pours out simply cosmically much.

[Pravodel]

Arrogant Saxons and various other Tribalts, Poles, Finns and others, etc. etc. they don’t know Russia well, and therefore they don’t take into account that for every new bolt there will always be its own necessary nut ...
Let them deliver, we will screw our Russian nut onto this new bolt.

[Pavel57]

In conditions of tank attacks, the Su-39 would be useful.

[Okakakiev]

Most impressive is the chrysanthemum. In theory, a ground reconnaissance radar makes it much easier to search for targets, even in comparison with a thermal imager.

[abc_alex]

Hmm ...
Well, to say that the article is not entirely correct is to say nothing. I'm only on our systems.
For starters, the Malyutka anti-tank system has been out of production for a VERY long time, and if it stayed anywhere, it was only at the training grounds. Mounting it on the Mi-8 does not make sense.
And from the oldest to the newest: "Product 305" can now be fully used only from the Mi-28NM. And it will be used. And this is not exotic, but the regular armament of a combat vehicle. By the way, he also has a helicopter version of the Chrysanthemum complex.

aviation complexes "Shturm-V", "Ataka-V"

Let's be clear though. "Ataka" is the proper name for the 9M120 rocket. And "Shturm" is the name of the onboard equipment complex. Sturm initially used the 9M114 missile.
The Shturm complex is interspecific, it was mounted on the ML-BT chassis, and then on the Mi-28 helicopter. Later, the Attack missile was created for it, and Shturm-V received a new ammunition.
The Ataka-V complex is EMNIP exotic of the late 90s. He was tried on the Mi-24 and Mi-35. But it looks like they didn't screw it up.

That is, today we have Shturm-S on earth with a 9M114 Cocoon missile.
And in the sky Shturm-V with a 9M120 Ataka missile. The Ka-52 is armed with the same attack. But the Kamovites refused to install Sturm, and it turned out worse for them.
BMPTs of both versions are also armed with Attack.
Armor penetration Attacks over 900mm behind reactive armor.

ATGM "Chrysanthemum-S" ... The big minus of this complex is its bulkiness.

No matter how hard I tried, I could not imagine a system with an ammunition load of 15 missiles weighing 63 kilos each, portable. :)
Well, yes, you can’t hide the system in your pocket. Well, after all, it is not intended for concealed carry :) Excuse me, it has ammunition for a tank company. :) This is not an infantry weapon.

Not only is the vehicle clearly visible in thermal imagers and other tank monitoring devices, it is also visible in radar mode.

Where is this taken from? By inertia, they wrote, like since this is an infantry fighting vehicle, is it visible?
The missile launch range of the complex is 5 km. New rocket - 6 km. From a tank at such a distance, you can only see an explosion or a fire, but not an infantry fighting vehicle standing in the shelter. Yes, and the ATGM was brought to the bar there for nothing to do.
In the "radar mode" everything is noticeable in general. Depending on the frequency of the radiation, you can even look at insects there. The important thing is for someone to say where to look. And no one will say this to the crew in the tank. He himself from the tank will not see anything at such a distance. Well, or he will be forced to hang around like three poplars on Plyushchikha for half an hour trying to see something there near the horizon.
If it was meant that the machine radiates in radio command control mode and this stream can be intercepted, then this is fantastic. As well as the use of anti-radar missiles against mobile ATGMs.
Chrysanthemum-S is very perfect and the developers clearly understood how dangerous it was for her to be discovered. They also foresaw the possibility of a paired launch of two missiles, realizing that there would no longer be time for a second launch from one place. And two guidance systems along the beam and through the OLS are also made for a reason.


I summarize. Our army has powerful heavy ATGMs for ground and air equipment. They were created by people who clearly understand what enemy tanks are capable of and who have the most up-to-date data on the developments underway there. The problem of all these systems is common - the comparative small number of both the machines themselves and the trained crews. Especially the crews.

[agond]

Quote: abc_alex

I summarize. Our army has powerful heavy ATGMs for ground and air equipment.

Everything is true, but most likely, due to the limited number of NATO tanks supplied, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will use them primarily to protect cities where their heavy weight will be compensated by paved roads, and the short distance of urban combat will make it difficult to use against their ATGMs

[Illanatol]

Quote: agond

Everything is true, but most likely, due to the limited number of NATO tanks supplied, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will use them primarily to protect cities where their heavy weight will be compensated by paved roads, and the short distance of urban combat will make it difficult to use against their ATGMs

Tanks in urban combat are just very vulnerable to all means of destruction. Even for RPGs, with the massive use of the latter.

[tone]

We throw an article from the category with hats ...

[Goldmitro]

But as soon as the West announced the confirmed deliveries of a company of British Challenger 2s, a company of German Leopard 2A6s and a company of Polish Leopard 2A4s, a “win” immediately occurred in Kyiv.

And what did we answer in response to this next (which is already in a row) not just hostile, but belligerent attack of the West, distraught from frenzied Russophobia? They stated that this would be a "legitimate target for our aircraft", that looks frankly not smart and helpless! As if we just now realized that the equipment, Western instructors and mercenaries that the West has been driving to Ukraine for almost a year are not Christmas gifts, but are intended to continue killing civilians who did not accept the cannibalistic Bandera regime in Kyiv and our soldiers NWO who came to his defense! And for this, all this evil spirits and, above all, its equipment must be destroyed as quickly as possible, on the way to the NWO zone, without leading to the need to "grind" it at the forefront, which leads to an increase in our losses! And why is this equipment, and now it will be modern Western equipment, still getting to the front line, and not being destroyed, for example, on the western border of Ukraine unclear!

[air wolf]

Solntsepek, Pinocchio and Tornado G, the author forgot to mention, even the Mi-8MT with 80 S-8 units can overwhelm a tank platoon

[Alexander Strelkov]

We urgently need to organize the supply of powerful laser pointers to the troops to create false simulators of attacks from many directions.

[Dron_sk]

@ Under the Syrian El-Bab, they knocked out ten Turkish tanks with captured Russian Kornets-E @
Trophy? Well, in what battles and against whom did they receive these trophies? ..

[stankow]

Harm cannot work on Chrysanthemum's radio beam. For many reasons unknown to the author.

[shinobi]

The statistics of wars, (at least old, at least modern) show that armored vehicles suffer the main losses not from head-on collisions with their own kind and infantry actions, but from artillery and aviation strikes.

[AlexSmi1970]

The question is whether all of these listed anti-tank weapons are available at the front in sufficient quantities. And are there trained ATGM crews in sufficient quantities.

[Viktor Sergeev]

So what are you doing with the 3rd generation? Do you really believe that a tank will be able to destroy an ATGM operator before a missile hits this tank during the missile's flight? The range of hitting a target from any tank is 2 km, everything else is from the "hit by accident" category. This is 8 seconds of flight of the Kornet rocket, during this time the tank needs to detect a shot, aim a cannon (this is if the projectile is in the cannon), aim, shoot and hit a target with an area of ​​0,2 sq.m. and all this in the process of trying to get away from the rocket, strenuously maneuvering.
At first, everyone rushed around with Jevelyn, for a whole couple of weeks, and then everything, as it was cut off, turned out to be practically useless rubbish.

[Krivobokoff]

Finally, at least someone realized that NWO is not WOT, in order to compare tanks with each other, but anti-tankers work against tanks on the battlefield