Military Review

From the point of view of the infantry. We need a new machine gun!

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From the point of view of the infantry. We need a new machine gun!
Photo by: Vitaly V. Kuzmin


In conversations with our infantrymen participating in the SVO, the topic of machine guns arose several times. Mainly because the machine gunners raised it.

It is probably worth starting with the presentation of the image of a modern machine gunner, since such an image exists, and it is very remarkable.

The machine gunner and his second number can be immediately distinguished from ordinary fighters. These are such hefty boars, with increased carrying capacity so that you can carry everything you need.


What is necessary is the PKM machine gun itself, from 1000 to 1500 rounds for it, two machine guns with 8 magazines each (there is no weapons at least enough, as they explained to me), grenades and plus it would be very nice to have something from the category of RPG-26 - RPG-30. Just in case, because it can be just anyone.

We are not talking about small things anymore, it is clear that in order to effectively move all of the above, comrade machine gunners simply must have the appropriate dimensions and physical strength.


Of course, now there may be readers who personally knew “from such a” machine gunner, 170 cm tall and weighing a kitten. But our people have always been strong in terms of fairy tales and legends, Russian fairy tales are the most fabulous.

Therefore, it is not surprising that my interlocutors had a height of 190 cm and weight per centner. Otherwise, nothing, here is pure physics. Physics, although physical education is also very relevant.

What we were talking about. The fact that PKM is quite a good weapon. Well tailored, tightly sewn, no problems with ammunition, everything was done long before the advent of PKM, moreover, for 10 years of continuous war. The cartridge is powerful, it flies accurately, it’s not for nothing that they say about this machine gun “quick-firing sniper”, the barrel length will even be longer than that of the SVD. And penetration is quite, but this is generally known to everyone.

All the pros and cons of the PKM and the Pecheneg were sorted out a long time ago, only one thing was added new: the inability to practically shoot at long distances. More precisely, you can shoot, it's a matter of accuracy, because to ensure it, sighting devices of a different level are required than a rear sight with a front sight and a bar. Well, since we have no problems with anything in the army, as the generals from the General Staff say, except for unshaven beards, then getting at least the “Angle” is another quest.

In general, comrade machine gunners say out loud that if everything is arranged in such a way that each PKM will come with a satchel with a sleeve for supplying cartridges, a collimator sight, an optical one and a night one - nothing more is actually needed. With such a machine gun (if there are 1000 rounds of ammunition in the knapsack and another 750 on the second number loaded), you can reach not only Kyiv, but also Berlin.


But this is on condition that all this splendor will be made and issued to machine gunners. So far, you understand, everything is at the level of the Great Patriotic War in this regard.

But in conversations such an interesting question was raised as the taking back of the abandoned cities.

Everyone is well aware that the cities will have to be taken. And not in a swoop, as in February-March, but in the course of stubborn and bloody battles. Like Soledar, only even cooler, because the Ukrainians have time to prepare.

And considerations were expressed on the topic that a slightly different machine gun is really needed for urban battles. In urban areas, firing distances are much lower than outside settlements, and therefore:
- the caliber may be less than 7,62 mm, 5,45 mm will do just fine. But the stock of cartridges can be taken more. Actually, for this they came up with a caliber of 5,45 mm;
- the barrel can and should be made shorter, the firing range in the city of 1-1,5 km is not needed;
- adjustable butt;
- tactical handle;
- collimator sight.

If you look at the world analogues, then we got the FN Minimi Para or M249 SAW in the American transcription.


FN Minimi Para is just what we were talking about. Compared to the base model FN Minimi, it is lighter (6,56 kg vs. 8,17 kg with a non-folding stock), shorter (766 mm vs. 1015 mm), the barrel is shorter (349 mm vs. 465 mm) and therefore slightly lower muzzle velocity (866 m/s versus 950 m/s).


If we compare the Belgian machine gun with the Russian Pecheneg, then the numbers are about the same: FN Minimi Para is lighter (6,56 kg versus 8,2 kg), shorter (766 mm versus 1155 mm), the barrel is shorter (349 mm versus 658 mm) . But the Belgian's muzzle velocity is higher: 866 m/s versus 825 m/s. But this is already being played by more modern Belgian gunpowder, as it seems to me.

All in all, the more compact and lighter FN Minimi Para is the ideal weapon for working in urban areas. A weapon to suppress all living things: shooters, less cool machine gunners, grenade launchers, mortar gunners, snipers. The main thing is really that the lead shower does not stop in the direction from which the threat was coming, the rest will be completed by attack aircraft, which, under the cover of a machine gun, will get closer to the enemy and neutralize him.

Here we do not have such a machine gun.

We don’t even consider the RPK-16, because although it is better in terms of performance characteristics (as they say) than the RPK-74, because it is made on the basis of the AK-12 (which also claims a wagon), but in fact it is an assault rifle with an elongated barrel and the same combat characteristics.


Yes, it is considerably lighter than the FN Minimi Para, 4,5 kg versus 6,56 kg, but otherwise the RPK-16 is inferior. Even the Kalashnikov concern does not have data on the initial speed of the bullet, but the rate of fire of the RPK-16 at 700 rounds per minute is lower than that of the Belgian machine gun, which produces up to 900 rounds per minute.

The option to change the barrel (this RPK-16 differs from the RPK-74) is useful, just here you can change the “field” barrel 580 mm long to a shorter “assault” barrel 415 mm long, but the manufacturer does not recommend doing this in the field .

Well, the main drawback of the RPK-16, of course, is the lack of tape power. All machine gunners talk about it. Store for 30 or 45 rounds - it's not serious, yes, "military experts" murmur that it is possible to hit targets with sniper shots at a distance of up to 600 meters. Well, yes, with a whole and a front sight, sniping accurately. From an under-machine gun, which is the LMG class, or if in Russian, then light machine guns.

For our opponents from NATO, any machine gun must "eat" the tape.


A magazine from a rifle can be inserted when there is simply no way to reload the "korobas" or the cartridges are simply over. A temporary measure, but, in fact, the machine gun should be fed from a box of 200 or 250 rounds. This gives the density of the fire. And magazines from rifles are really a temporary measure.

For RPK-16 there is something in between a box and a magazine. This is a "tambourine" for 95 rounds. But we will not discuss it, since none of the four participants in the conversation saw him in the eye.

In general, the appearance of an assault machine gun for urban development has been formed. And the army needs such a machine gun, since military operations are conducted not where it is convenient, but where it is necessary.

Many may object: would it not be very bold to have a separate machine gun for combat in the city, a separate one for the field? Where to attack? And what will it look like?


It will look normal. We change clothes for the army twice a year, and nothing. And then from the warehouses to issue THAT machine guns instead of THESE - and suddenly there is a problem. And where to attack ... To manufacture in factories! Moreover, not so many of these machine guns are needed. Yes, the National Guard will definitely not refuse. Marines. Airborne Forces (in general, the easier it is, the better). In general, we are not talking about hundreds of thousands, but actually about thousands. Well, maybe tens of thousands. Small numbers for a concern like Kalashnikov. Moreover, there are some developments on a shortened machine gun in the stash.


This machine gun has already been shown even to Putin, but you yourself know that he is shown a lot of things in the framework of all these exhibitions, but there is no sense in this. However, work on the bullpup machine gun was carried out, and it is in metal in Izhevsk.

Okay, okay, bullpup was not mastered, it happens. What is worth taking and supplying the Pecheneg with a shortened barrel (450-500 mm), the telescopic butt and quick-release bipods in the Pecheneg-SP model already exist. Equip the machine gun with sights more complex than a mechanical sight - and, in fact, everything is ready!


Of course, this would also have a smaller caliber, to increase the wearable ammunition ...

Although the fighter of the assault detachment Pavel believes that if he had been given just a PKM with a collimator sight and a “night light”, and a satchel for 1000 rounds and a supply sleeve of decent quality, he would have done things in any locality. And it doesn’t matter how the enemy would gain a foothold there, “that would already be their problem.”


A convenient and effective machine gun in a city, especially in a city turned into a fortress, is a very necessary thing. And the Russian infantry needs such a machine gun. Although, it seems to us, others would not have refused such weapons for sure.
Author:
Articles from this series:
From the point of view of the infantry. Beard, iPhone, tablet - all according to Hasek
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  1. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 24 January 2023 03: 49
    +39
    -That's what, guys, I won't give you a machine gun.
    -We understand...
    K-f. "White Sun of the Desert"
    1. insafufa
      insafufa 24 January 2023 08: 12
      +6
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      -That's what, guys, I won't give you a machine gun.
      -We understand...
      K-f. "White Sun of the Desert"

      What is worth taking and supplying the Pecheneg with a shortened barrel (450-500 mm), the telescopic butt and quick-release bipods in the Pecheneg-SP model already exist. Equip the machine gun with sights more complex than a mechanical sight - and, in fact, everything is ready!

      Shortened light machine gun "Pecheneg" https://topwar.ru/35035-ukorochennyy-ruchnoy-pulemet-pecheneg.html
      Minuses of modernization:
      - lack of open sights;
      - the inability to quickly replace external sights due to the use of Picatinny rail;
      - the inability of the normal transfer of weapons due to the sights located on the handle;
      - the fuse is located in the same place, it is necessary to be distracted by its switching, which is quite inconvenient in the absence of a normal butt;
      - access to the gas regulator when installing the LCC and the lamp becomes inconvenient;
      - the position of the box with the cartridges under the slope causes bending of the tape, which may cause difficulties with the supply of ammunition, and gives a strong load on the trigger guard;
      - when servicing a weapon to remove dirt from under the forearm, it will have to be removed, which is a little difficult to do in field conditions and without a tool;
      - inconvenient fastening of the belt on the butt;
      - the impossibility of fighting with the use of the machine;
      - violation of the weight distribution of weapons, which obviously will affect the accuracy of the battle, although for urban combat it is not so important.
      AUTHOR:
      Alexander Ivanov

      As they say, there is a machine gun and it was created only without having time to test it, they crap it according to the old stupid tradition
      1. PROXOR
        PROXOR 24 January 2023 10: 45
        +17
        Oooh, we have more than enough experts. In fact, everything is already there. Only manufacturers should shove their pride into themselves you know where. The guys from the MTR have long thought of everything. But in our country, the Kalashnikov Concern is proud.
        1. Blackgrifon
          Blackgrifon 24 January 2023 17: 36
          +17
          Quote: PROXOR
          The guys from the MTR have long thought of everything. But in our country, the Kalashnikov Concern is proud.

          The guys didn’t come up with this, but Serpukhov does it on the basis of an order from the Moscow Region. And KK is proud, because a) the MO does not order and b) no one "works out with their feet" for jambs.
          1. Shurik70
            Shurik70 26 January 2023 19: 39
            0
            And most importantly - that the necessary equipment exists.
            But not everyone, for some reason.
            "Scorpio" was invented a long time ago.
            Sights - a very long time ago.
            Why doesn't everyone have this?
        2. PSih2097
          PSih2097 25 January 2023 02: 15
          +7
          Quote: PROXOR
          But in our country, the Kalashnikov Concern is proud.

          And they just snickered, they consider themselves uncontested gunsmiths (through lobbying their interests in the Moscow Region, they spread rot on all competitors), although there is Kovrov's "Degtyarev" who makes weapons no worse, and in some ways even better.
          1. GneSPb
            GneSPb 25 January 2023 09: 20
            +5
            There is a belt RPD, caliber 7,62, an automatic cartridge, a machine gun is light, convenient, the recoil is not large, the battle is accurate, what is it not in the warehouses? Why don’t they get it and don’t give it to the troops ???
            1. Meaning of life_
              Meaning of life_ 26 January 2023 23: 21
              0
              1) In terms of reliability, it is much worse than Kalash.
              2) The army is armed with 5,45 cartridges. There is no reason to complicate the supply. With this and so problems.
              It's better to make a drum magazine for RPK-74 for 100 rounds.
              And even better - get the old drawings and put the PU-21 "Poplin" into production.
              But if the Ministry of Defense is not even able to provide the existing sights and "scorpions", then it is unrealistic to expect them to master something new in production.
        3. YOUR
          YOUR 25 January 2023 04: 47
          +7
          What you pass off as some kind of home-made MTR is the development of the Kovrov plant named after. Degtyarev, a shortened assault light machine gun "Pecheneg" according to the "bullpup" scheme. The weapon is intended for special forces. The ammunition used is a rifle cartridge of 7,62 × 53 caliber. In 2013, it was demonstrated as one of the variants of the Ratnik outfit.
          Read more here

          https://topwar.ru/35035-ukorochennyy-ruchnoy-pulemet-pecheneg.html
    2. SKVichyakow
      SKVichyakow 24 January 2023 09: 58
      +16
      Such a machine gunner, in Afghanistan, was Artyom Sheinin, a TV presenter on Channel 1 in the program "Time will tell."
    3. Monster_Fat
      Monster_Fat 24 January 2023 17: 53
      +15
      Bullshit. Compare minimi and pecheneg - these are completely different machine guns, chambered for different cartridges. The muzzle energy of these machine guns is incomparable. That's why the weight is different. In the city, yes, the shorter the weapon and the more ammunition, the better, but ... there is such a thing as penetration. A minimi is a fart, a broom for close range, and a Pecheneg will squander a brick wall along with those behind it. But personally, I always liked the rpk thing. And what kind of nonsense is it about carrying two machine guns and 1500 rounds of ammunition for one person? The machine gunner carries one machine gun and a pistol, his partner carries a machine gun and everything else.
      1. Observer2014
        Observer2014 24 January 2023 19: 20
        +12
        Later, when it all ends, I will personally introduce you to the guys who went into battle with one and a half thousand rounds of ammunition, taking them with them wink hi
        1. tatarin1972
          tatarin1972 24 January 2023 20: 21
          +4
          Do not tell me, back in the first Chechnya, machine gunners took a thousand from us.
      2. Zug
        Zug 25 January 2023 08: 41
        +5
        After the assaults of Orekhovo, being on the first business trip as a sniper, his brother also begged for AKM, since in the village there was almost zero sense from the SVD. And he had to wander around with AK and SVD.
    4. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 24 January 2023 22: 54
      +2
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      -That's what, guys, I won't give you a machine gun.
      -We understand...
      K-f. "White Sun of the Desert"

      Well, since we have no problems with anything in the army, as the generals from the General Staff say, except for unshaven beards

      ... and uniforms!
      - Peacocks, you say?! haha!!!
  2. faterdom
    faterdom 24 January 2023 03: 58
    +17
    The rifleman is almost the most inveterate part of the weapon. In our country, strategic missiles are more often changed and put into service with new ones than pistols, machine guns and machine guns.
    But Israel and for some reason the Belgians are almost constantly improving their rifle.
    And no one will give us a machine gun, like that customs officer Vereshchagin, you need to have your own for the whole range of machine gun work.
    1. Leader_Barmaleev
      Leader_Barmaleev 24 January 2023 05: 07
      -11
      The main problem in the production of rifles in Russia is metal. More precisely, high-strength alloys that do not change their properties when heated, do not enter into chemical reactions with the combustion products of gunpowder, etc. It would seem - well, what is easier, to buy or in some other way to have an Israeli or Belgian machine gun, to make a qualitative and quantitative analysis of the composition of the metal and go ... But alas - Western gunsmiths do not keep their secrets in vain - the very technology of obtaining an alloy is not soup to cook - something is melted in a vacuum, something under argon, something in a crucible, then all this is mixed in a certain order and at a certain temperature - in short, sheer witchcraft and small-piece production. But the production of small volumes is a Faberge sickle for our industry. As a result, in small-scale production in Russia, you will have to choose between two extremes - either an absolutely horse price tag, or terrible quality. So if we want machine guns, good and different, then first of all it is necessary to reconfigure the brains in the heads of gunsmiths - first to produce new alloys (and this is VERY expensive and long enough, and if quickly, then VERY VERY expensive, but this requires go) and then, taking into account the capabilities of metal, draw a new machine gun ... But from the point of view of government officials, this is NOT THE OPTIMAL expense of funds - there is something to shoot from, so shoot, and we will OPTIMALLY add money.
      1. Dimax-nemo
        Dimax-nemo 24 January 2023 07: 45
        +18
        Are you so sure that the same Minimi would have passed the tests according to the requirements of the Soviet-Russian Defense Ministry?
        1. Von_Schmidt
          Von_Schmidt 24 January 2023 08: 27
          +5
          This machine gun has already proved everything to everyone, apparently you need to be notified separately with a paper. What are the requirements of the Ministry of Defense, sho AK-12 adopted,? Kindergarten-corruption? Our MO will accept everything for which the money is brought.
          1. lucul
            lucul 24 January 2023 09: 10
            +2
            This machine gun has already proved everything to everyone, apparently you need to be notified separately with a paper. What are the requirements of the Ministry of Defense, sho AK-12 adopted,?

            WHAT and to whom did he prove? ))))
            If Israeli and Belgian machine guns were REALLY good, then they would already be in every platoon of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but for some reason Ukrainians prefer Kalash to all Western riflemen. Why don't you know? )))
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 24 January 2023 10: 27
              +5
              Do you know why?

              Because they were not given Belgian and Israeli machine guns?
              1. lucul
                lucul 24 January 2023 11: 49
                0
                Because they were not given Belgian and Israeli machine guns?

                Because they are very expensive (due to lightweight alloys) and are not intended for mass warfare? That is, in fact, piece products for special forces.
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 24 January 2023 12: 05
                  -1
                  Because they are very expensive (due to lightweight alloys) and are not intended for mass warfare? That is, in fact, piece products for special forces.

                  You wrote complete nonsense
                  1. lucul
                    lucul 24 January 2023 14: 09
                    +4
                    You wrote complete nonsense

                    Can you refute?
                    1. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 24 January 2023 15: 34
                      -4
                      Can you refute?

                      Troll? You open any FKSM (although you don’t know what it is, but search engines will help out) and see what the regulars are equipped with.
              2. sgrabik
                sgrabik 25 January 2023 00: 18
                +3
                The entire Western world is arming them, and not only with Haimars and Axes, there are also enough small arms from Europe and the USA.
            2. Negro
              Negro 24 January 2023 11: 53
              +3
              Quote: lucul
              they would have already been, but for some reason Ukrainians prefer Kalash to the entire western riflemen. Why don't you know? )))

              Because you're lying, apparently this is the reason.

              Naturally, those who have the opportunity for ammunition are switching to NATO - there is complete amateur performance in this. And this is especially true of the watering machine gun. AK may be worse than AR, but at least it exists, and there is simply no watering can. RPK is not a machine gun, but something like a "long" M16. All the good things he has is a bigger store.

              But in general, of course, the rifleman hangs on the supply of ammunition. Having one 7,62x51 rifle in the company is a so-so idea.
              1. lucul
                lucul 24 January 2023 14: 08
                -1
                Because you're lying, apparently this is the reason.

                Ahahaahah))))
                So why don't the APU MASSIVELY run around with the M-16? Do they prefer Kalash?
                Because I'm lying, it turns out? Is that why they don't run? ))))
                1. Negro
                  Negro 24 January 2023 14: 42
                  0
                  Quote: lucul
                  So why don't the APU MASSIVELY run around with the M-16? Do they prefer Kalash?

                  But why?
                  The same M249 is and is used. There was no task to transfer the entire rifle to NATO.
                  Quote: lucul
                  Do they prefer Kalash?

                  Normal people prefer weapons that are loaded.
                  1. lucul
                    lucul 24 January 2023 21: 28
                    0
                    But why?

                    What do you mean why ? )))
                    Western propaganda convinces everyone that the M-16 is much better than the Kalash, from which a simple conclusion follows - re-equip the entire Armed Forces of Ukraine with the M-16. So they will win))))
                    1. Negro
                      Negro 24 January 2023 23: 45
                      -4
                      Quote: lucul
                      Western propaganda convinces everyone that the M-16 is much better than the Kalash, from which a simple conclusion follows - re-equip the entire Armed Forces of Ukraine with the M-16. So they will win))))

                      Western propaganda in this case is right. Whoever needs to be retrained, there are quite a lot of ARCs in Ukraine. But since the role of the shooter is, frankly, the tenth, its replacement is not a priority issue.
                      1. Meaning of life_
                        Meaning of life_ 26 January 2023 23: 38
                        0
                        The experience of Iraq and Afghanistan runs counter to your words.
                        1. http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?11229-Vietnam-era-M16-rifle-shows-its-weaknesses-in-Iraq-combat&s=4590838d284b8241f0b4db3251c27627
                        2. https://www.gun-tests.com/news/ap-weapons-failed-us-troops-during-afghan-firefight/#.XKqwLWMpD9I
                        3. https://taskandpurpose.com/tech-tactics/pentagon-is-doing-something-about-the-m16-and-m4/
                        4. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/border-patrol-agents-say-agencies-gun-recall-puts-them-in-danger
                        5. https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/
                        6. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/07/10/m-16s-jammed-during-ambush-in-iraq/092871f9-440e-4305-9b86-3ff2474643d0/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2b24ad1900a9
        2. Negro
          Negro 24 January 2023 11: 47
          -6
          Quote: Dimax-Nemo
          that the same Minimi would have passed the tests according to the requirements of the Soviet-Russian Defense Ministry?

          These are the problems of the Soviet-Russian Defense Ministry.
      2. APASUS
        APASUS 24 January 2023 12: 38
        +6
        Quote: Leader_Barmaleev
        The main problem in the production of rifles in Russia is metal.

        I think the main problem is the system itself!
        For some reason, they choose not the best type of weapons, but Kalashnikov. Lobaev and ORSIS showed that weapons can be made, but the system cannot be overcome.
      3. Duncan
        Duncan 24 January 2023 13: 33
        -5
        They just have solid steel, of which there are a lot of grades and grades.
        Our producers are export-oriented and compete there with Indians and Chinese. They win the market by reducing the price (and quality).
        1. APASUS
          APASUS 24 January 2023 16: 28
          +9
          Quote from dunkan
          They just have solid steel, of which there are a lot of grades and grades.
          Our manufacturers are export-oriented

          Not from a good life, I understand. If our Defense Ministry hadn’t been goofy, then everything would have been tanks, and first-aid kits, and machine guns. In the meantime, it became clear that the Moscow Region is simply headed by effective managers
          1. Negro
            Negro 24 January 2023 23: 52
            -6
            Quote: APASUS
            If our Defense Ministry hadn’t been goofy, then everything would have been tanks, and first-aid kits, and machine guns.

            You see, MO didn’t goof off. Look, you can read about the Poseidon miracle torpedo.
            1. APASUS
              APASUS 25 January 2023 09: 11
              +3
              Quote: Negro
              You see, MO didn’t goof off. Look, you can read about the Poseidon miracle torpedo.

              You can also read about Armata and look at the parade and about Marker, Kurganets, but they are not in the troops or single samples. Which do not make the weather at all. All hope for the courage and courage of the fighters? When would our Defense Ministry insure the life of a soldier, so for a million dollars, maybe something has moved?
              1. Negro
                Negro 25 January 2023 10: 41
                -1
                Quote: APASUS
                When would our Defense Ministry insure the life of a soldier, so for a million dollars, maybe something has moved?

                You give it, without extremism. Bend the fasteners. The free soldier is the cornerstone of the national military art.
      4. vadim dok
        vadim dok 24 January 2023 19: 41
        +1
        Even after receiving (buying) other people's machine guns and after analyzing the metal of the barrel, etc. - this will not give ANYTHING! You need NOU HAU (I know how) production TECHNOLOGIES that no one will give!
        1. Negro
          Negro 25 January 2023 11: 27
          0
          Quote: vadim dok
          Need NO HAU

          So you are unlikely to be able to smelt steel. Try know how.
      5. goose
        goose 25 January 2023 01: 10
        +5
        The main problem of production and adaptation in the Russian Federation is the lack of production of own machine tools for metalworking and the almost dead industry for the production of special alloys. The origins of these problems are an anti-industrial tax system, short budget planning times, and an accounting ministry that calls itself the finance ministry.
        1. Eule
          Eule 25 January 2023 21: 56
          +1
          Surface hardening technologies have been known since the middle of the century. But they presuppose a sober, motivated, educated worker who does not pursue a plan, but does everything according to technology. The Germans succeeded, but they had a parallel control system that allowed them to shoot the "manager" so as not to rush.
          Quote: goose
          anti-industrial tax system

          This is the main one. And anti-human too. And until someone somehow removes it from the neck of the population, there will be no "import substitution".
          Quote: LastPS
          and tambourines are unreliable

          Tambourines are primarily expensive, when the cost of a "tambourine" for the PKK was higher than the cost of the machine gun itself, the suppliers thought about it. The second minus of a tambourine is sponges. It is worth dropping the tambourine and damaging the magazine lips - you have minus a lot of cartridges, and plus extra weight. The third minus is the empty weight per cartridge.
          IMHO, we need a bunker (pack) system with a sleeve, clinging to the RPK with a heavy barrel made of heat-resistant steel. Yes, the barrel will be five times more expensive, but it will live longer.
      6. Bayun
        Bayun 25 January 2023 16: 54
        +1
        What were they downvoted for? That's why the Soviet "Kalash" of the 60-70s is better? Because the trunks are "very expensive and of high quality." And since the 90s, even our weapons have become "effective", but they should be QUALITY.

        The author is absolutely right when he says that weapons for special forces can be 10 or 100 times more expensive than combined arms weapons. Previously, the state and the Moscow Region gave the BUDGET to the weapons special design bureau and pilot production. And today, not a single plant will do this at "its own expense". Yes, and the production of small quantities of special steels by metallurgists today is also "not effective." There, too, they drive a stream of consumer goods, and "conjure" on "special clothes" is an expensive pleasure.

        Development - IS, but to do "in hardware" - SOMEONE. In my opinion, the essence of the problem is indicated quite correctly.
        1. Victorovich
          Victorovich 26 January 2023 10: 06
          0
          Our metallurgists generally do not want to get involved with small volumes of special steel production.
          And not only special steels.
          They are just not interested in small volumes.
          Our metallurgists do not know how to work according to the principle - a little but steadily. They will do a lot once but at once.

          This became clear, or rather, this problem simply bulged out when we began to produce cars in a full cycle.
          The car requires several different grades of steel.
          Some steels, for example, in the production of Volkswagens, had to be about 5t-10t per month.
          But alas, they had to be imported from abroad because our metallurgists could not.
          To be precise, they can weld the desired steel, there are no problems here. They couldn't with such small volumes.
          They started at least 100k. and the demand was 10 tons.
          Our metallurgists were unable to provide stable small batches of metal. And auto concerns didn’t need an annual supply of a piece of iron in warehouses - that’s frozen money. Therefore, they imported metal, although we seem to have our own type .. but alas, oh.
          So right now we are getting the same hemorrhoids - metallurgists cannot and do not want to.
      7. Meaning of life_
        Meaning of life_ 26 January 2023 23: 27
        0
        I don’t know how it is now, but during the USSR the metal was excellent. Nobody complained and they are still fighting with the weapons produced then (even Amer's specialists in Afghanistan often took AK and PK).
    2. Dimax-nemo
      Dimax-nemo 24 January 2023 07: 44
      0
      They are not doing this from a good life ....
    3. lucul
      lucul 24 January 2023 09: 22
      0
      Rifleman is almost the most inveterate part of the weapon

      Because in the shooting range, EVERYTHING (the bicycle) was invented 100 years ago. And just like, for a bicycle, you can only invent a body kit without changing the very principle of the mechanics of action.
      According to the article - the whole requirement of machine gunners comes down to weight reduction (only expensive lightweight alloys will help here, which dramatically increases the cost of the product) and the presence of a collimator, plus a sniper scope + night vision.
      All this can be done on a conventional RPK by giving it a collimator / sniper scope, plus a box magazine for 100-150 rounds. And for urban combat, shorten the barrel.
      1. LastPS
        LastPS 24 January 2023 20: 18
        +4
        The RPK does not have a belt feed, this is a serious minus for a machine gun, and tambourines are unreliable, they are not used in more than one army in the state.
      2. AlAvis
        AlAvis 24 January 2023 20: 42
        +5
        Rumors about the high cost of light alloys are "greatly exaggerated". But technologies will have to be changed, money will be invested in modernization, production will be stopped for the period of reconstruction. Have you often seen this in modern Russia, except for "newcomers"? The tradition is to milk a cow until it dies.
      3. goose
        goose 25 January 2023 01: 12
        0
        Why should aluminum alloys suddenly increase the price of something? The cost of the material against the background of the price of the flight gun does not matter at all, and the machine park is simpler than for weapon steel.
  3. sgrabik
    sgrabik 24 January 2023 04: 04
    +10
    Why don’t our gunsmiths from Kalashnikov listen and refine their machine guns, taking into account all the comments that appear during the NWO, it is necessary to more actively and quickly respond to comments from military personnel operating these types of weapons, apparently feedback from combat zones not well established yet.
    1. ramzay21
      ramzay21 24 January 2023 21: 10
      +4
      Why don't our Kalashnikov gunsmiths listen and refine their machine guns, taking into account all the comments that appear during the CBO

      Just because Kalashnikov is a private company and they are not interested in penny orders. It was in 1941 that a horizontal connection was established, when specialists and factory designers were sent to the front, swallowing the experience of front-line soldiers and instantly making changes to designs or creating new models. Now no one needs this either in the Moscow Region or in the military-industrial complex. The troops have everything, everything is going according to plan.
      1. sgrabik
        sgrabik 25 January 2023 00: 31
        +2
        So it means that we need to give a hat to all these presumptuous "effective managers" who decide for themselves what is profitable to produce for our army and what is not, it would be time for some of them to give a savory kick in the ass, to move and organize feedback from the front is the direct responsibility of these snickering characters who stubbornly refuse to intensify and speed up their work during the strengthening and expansion of hostilities.
        1. ramzay21
          ramzay21 26 January 2023 12: 36
          -2
          For example, no one can give a kick to the head of Rostec Chemezov and his henchmen, he has a reliable roof. But it is he who controls almost the entire military-industrial complex. But he is busy destroying military-industrial complex enterprises
  4. faiver
    faiver 24 January 2023 04: 19
    +28
    a separate assault machine gun is a matter of the future, but the lack of modern sights for PKM and derivatives is a question for the Moscow Region. Maybe they could do without the famous temple, but would they make sights or buy them?
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 24 January 2023 04: 35
      +9
      Ahead are the assaults on fortified cities, in each fortified area there are stubborn Ukronats who are not going to retreat ... and assault machine guns with a shortened barrel and a round-the-clock sight, oh, how they are needed ... the military correctly raises the question of its necessity ... I'm afraid this question is already overripe and requires speedy decision.
      Gentlemen, comrades generals Sobolev and Zavarzin, take care of this business better ... leave your beards for peacetime.
      1. faiver
        faiver 24 January 2023 04: 41
        +9
        you really need to look at life - where are the assaults on fortified cities and where is the development, testing and implementation of an assault machine gun? Or do you think CBO for at least a decade?
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 24 January 2023 04: 58
          +3
          Quote: faiver
          Or do you think CBO for at least a decade?

          I think it can stretch out for a couple more years ... with the current tactics of gnawing through the enemy’s fortified areas, that’s for sure ... swift raids and girths with the encirclement of enemy cities are not visible and are not expected ... and if hundreds of tanks and NATO aircraft come into service with the enemy, then the war will take a completely different turn.
          The number of our warring troops is not enough to carry out large-scale operations such as Bagration ... it is logical to assume that the battles will be of a local protracted nature ... and this is at least several years.
      2. saigon
        saigon 24 January 2023 04: 52
        +14
        Why are you pointing out to the generals and swinging at the sacred for hemming, shaving and clean boots.
        And the machine gun, and why the generals don’t run with a machine gun, the generals are fine anyway.
        Only everything, as always, the war came and it was not expected. Thinking in front of the generals is not enough for them, and so it’s not bad, especially in the Duma (retirees)
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 24 January 2023 05: 02
          +1
          Quote: saigon
          sway at the sacred

          smile I will put Sobolev in the icon and I will pray on his clean-shaven face.
          And so I don’t consider some army generals capable of conducting modern military operations using modern weapons ... they got stuck with their bone thinking in the 20th century.
          1. Ka-52
            Ka-52 24 January 2023 07: 59
            -1
            I will put Sobolev in the icon and I will pray on his clean-shaven face.

            Are you against the Charter of the Internal Service of the Armed Forces of the USSR?
            1. Lech from Android.
              Lech from Android. 24 January 2023 08: 08
              0
              Quote: Ka-52
              I will put Sobolev in the icon and I will pray on his clean-shaven face.

              Are you against the Charter of the Internal Service of the Armed Forces of the USSR?

              I am against the stupidity of our generals...
              Admiral Makarov wore a beard, many generals of the Russian army wore a beard, partisan commander Vershigora, Kovpak wore a beard ... smile this did not interfere with their service.
              No need for Sobolev to condemn bearded soldiers right now.
              1. Ka-52
                Ka-52 24 January 2023 08: 16
                -8
                I am against the stupidity of our generals...

                I asked a specific question. No need to wag the fillet. The charter of the USSR Armed Forces spelled out in Chapter 14
                - timely shaving of the face, cutting hair and nails
                - Soldiers, sailors, sergeants and foremen of military service, as well as all cadets of military schools, are allowed to wear a short hairstyle .;

                I repeat the question: are you against the Charter of the USSR Armed Forces?
                1. Lech from Android.
                  Lech from Android. 24 January 2023 09: 05
                  +5
                  Quote: Ka-52
                  I repeat the question: are you against the Charter of the USSR Armed Forces?

                  Do you like to ask provocative questions?
                  I will answer directly to you yes, I am against certain provisions of the charter of the USSR that do not meet the modern conditions of warfare. hi
                  1. Ka-52
                    Ka-52 24 January 2023 09: 43
                    +2
                    Do you like to ask provocative questions?

                    no, Alexey, not provocative. It is just to make you understand that it was not General Sobolev who introduced the requirement to shave in the regulations on internal service. Because here, at VO, it is accepted - one blurted out without thinking, and away we go. Each balabol strives to prove himself an expert in the conduct of modern warfare. And the beard here turned out to be a stumbling block.
                    certain provisions of the Charter of the USSR that do not meet modern conditions of warfare

                    and how does a beard hinder or help "modern conditions of warfare? All this is nonsense. The beard boil is a simple information shovel of manure thrown by journalists on a fan. And the fact that you are discussing it looks ridiculous.
                    1. Eule
                      Eule 25 January 2023 22: 06
                      0
                      Quote: Ka-52
                      the requirement to shave in the internal service regulations.

                      The beard interferes with the gas mask
                      Unshaven makes it difficult to notice frostbite on the face in a timely manner.
                      Healing of wounds on an unshaven face - a little, but longer, the likelihood of suppuration is higher. Do you think cyclists shave their legs because they're faggots? No, on a shaved wound, healing of abrasions without suppuration.
                      Admiral Makarov wore a beard, many generals of the Russian army wore a beard,

                      The probability of shelling the headquarters is quite small, and if they cover it, then with large calibers.
                2. cmax
                  cmax 24 January 2023 20: 23
                  -1
                  Quote: Ka-52
                  I repeat the question: are you against the Charter of the USSR Armed Forces?

                  You still ask a question: it is better to be healthy and rich or poor and sick! Everything is good in moderation and the charter is sometimes violated. For example, when the guards threw new tanks near Kharkov.
                  1. fif21
                    fif21 24 January 2023 23: 50
                    0
                    Quote: cmax
                    Better to be healthy and rich or poor and sick!

                    recourse belay We used to say that it's better to be poor and alive than rich and dead. How quickly everything in the world is changing. hi
                3. Vlodek
                  Vlodek 24 January 2023 20: 49
                  +2
                  the charter of the USSR assumed the active use of gas masks when the enemy used weapons of mass destruction. the beard seriously interferes with the snug fit of the gas mask to the muzzle of the face. Waiting for the command "GAS"?
                  1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Sergei_tactics
                Sergei_tactics 24 January 2023 08: 22
                +11
                I happened to serve OKSVA. And there the order was like this - you go to the combat at least somehow. But he returned to the unit - be so kind as to put yourself in order. Everybody. It was the USSR.
                1. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 24 January 2023 12: 38
                  +2
                  And tapericha Sobolevs and lovers of the Charter internal let the services tell you where our soldiers in Ukraine have the location of the unit. It will be especially amusing to hear that this charter is written in blood. Such is the holy thing.
                  1. Sergei_tactics
                    Sergei_tactics 25 January 2023 05: 35
                    0
                    Every unit has a home base. No one has ever kept and does not keep fighters for years on the front lines. Even in the conditions of the front, there are always rotations for rest, recruitment, washing, etc. Otherwise, people will simply break down, get lousy and, in principle, lose their combat effectiveness. The longest time I had for combat was a month. It's already hard. And your couch brethren sometimes grind such nonsense, it’s not even funny anymore.
              3. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 24 January 2023 08: 22
                +2
                Quote: Lech from Android.
                Admiral Makarov wore a beard, many generals of the Russian army wore a beard, partisan commander Vershigora, Kovpak wore a beard ..

                This is because they did not wear gas masks ...
              4. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 24 January 2023 08: 32
                +4
                Admiral Makarov wore a beard, many generals of the Russian army wore a beard, the partisan commander Vershigora, Kovpak wore a beard ... smile this did not interfere with their service.

                1. At the time of Makarov, there was no OV yet, especially in the navy.
                2. There is no need for partisans here at all, this is not an army
                3. I have already said, but I will repeat - for some reason I did not notice bearded soldiers either during the defense of Stalingrad, or during the assault on Koenigsberg and Berlin.
                1. Dante Alighieri
                  Dante Alighieri 24 January 2023 09: 12
                  +1
                  I have already said, but I repeat - for some reason I did not notice bearded soldiers either during the defense of Stalingrad, or during the assault on Koenigsberg and Berlin.

                  There, on the chronicles, no one hid their faces under a balaclava, and no one hid from the world, and no one was afraid of this very world, for their cause was just and no one doubted victory.
                2. Lech from Android.
                  Lech from Android. 24 January 2023 09: 12
                  +10
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  I have already said, but I repeat - for some reason I did not notice bearded soldiers either during the defense of Stalingrad, or during the assault on Koenigsberg and Berlin.

                  smile

                  There were a lot of servicemen with beards ... some members of the forum do not know the history of the Red Army and the Red Army well.
                  1. Aviator_
                    Aviator_ 24 January 2023 17: 14
                    0
                    There were a lot of servicemen with beards ... some members of the forum do not know the history of the Red Army and the Red Army well.
                    I have a suspicion that these are not soldiers, or rather, not Red Army soldiers, as they were then called. This is the command staff. And the charter, in fact, speaks only of soldiers.
                    1. faiver
                      faiver 24 January 2023 19: 42
                      +1
                      Well, what are the suspicions? This is the command line...
                    2. stankow
                      stankow 24 January 2023 23: 36
                      +1
                      Looks like doctors. You can’t order them in a field hospital, you’re tired there. And the belts are definitely officer's.
        2. VIT101
          VIT101 24 January 2023 22: 44
          +2
          Quote: saigon
          Only everything, as always, the war came and it was not expected.


          Everything is much worse. The war started, but they themselves did not prepare for it. And it would not be worth blaming the generals, here it is necessary to take much higher. And the fact that when a soldier is shaved and he has clean boots, there is nothing wrong with that. And so it draws not on the "best regular army" but on the partisan detachment.
      3. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 24 January 2023 08: 28
        +4
        Gentlemen, comrades generals Sobolev and Zavarzin, take care of this business better ... leave your beards for peacetime.
        These generals are so stupid that they are not even able to justify a reasonable ban on wearing beards - in the case of the use of OV, it will be impossible to use a gas mask.
        1. AlAvis
          AlAvis 24 January 2023 20: 36
          +3
          OV in modern warfare is a hypothetical thing. But the fact that the beard burns very well is a fact.
          1. stankow
            stankow 24 January 2023 23: 42
            +2
            And slowly shaves when wounded. And it's hard to wear a helmet. And breed lice.
    2. Koronik
      Koronik 24 January 2023 05: 54
      +4
      Dear ones, the Temple is also needed, by the way, built on donations from the Russians, so it’s not necessary, but the soldiers should have sights and night vision devices.
    3. Hagen
      Hagen 24 January 2023 07: 02
      0
      Quote: faiver
      Maybe they could do without the famous temple, but would they make sights or buy them?

      The temple and sights are financed from different sources, as the financiers would say. Saving in one would not lead to excess in the other. And the sights are not so much worth to get away from something. The problem is that the army is a vertically integrated structure, and communication in it is habitually one-way. Here Putin sent Rogozin to Donetsk to establish feedback. How much slop was poured on him even on this site? Do you think others are better? There are a lot of representatives from the "semi-high" level in the RA, to whom such "royal wolves" are like a sickle in .... the heart. Therefore, with all the aspirations to do what is necessary, it is not enough to hear about this from below. We (and not only us) have such a mental trait - the higher we climb the career steps, the worse we see and hear the "earth".
      1. Dante Alighieri
        Dante Alighieri 24 January 2023 08: 06
        +6
        The temple and sights are financed from different sources, as the financiers would say. Saving in one would not lead to excess in the other.

        I do not agree. Instead of voluntarily-compulsorily donating money for the construction of the temple, with the same success, officers and contractors could be obliged to provide themselves with a walkie-talkie or a collimator, which would be much more useful than a pile of concrete, marble and gilding.
        1. Hagen
          Hagen 24 January 2023 11: 53
          -2
          Quote: Dante
          Instead of voluntarily-compulsorily donating money for the construction of the temple,

          This is where they do so extortion? Name the organization ... I sent it myself. And in general, in my circle I have never heard that one of the employers, even budget ones, encroached on the salary of an employee. Offers to participate are possible, but only as offers. So I don't know how much truth is in your words. The Internet will endure everything, the temptation to lie recklessly is present and sometimes works.
          1. faiver
            faiver 24 January 2023 16: 23
            +3
            Offers to participate are possible, but just like offers
            - yeah, offers ... that are better not to refuse ...
            1. Hagen
              Hagen 25 January 2023 07: 33
              -2
              Quote: faiver
              - yeah, offers ... that are better not to refuse ...

              Another 500... laughing from the series - "we would have the enemy on the horns, only the skin is expensive ....".
      2. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 24 January 2023 08: 45
        +3
        Here Putin sent Rogozin to Donetsk to establish feedback. How much slop was poured on him even on this site?
        And without this journalist by education, there is no one to establish a connection? Soon he will paint tanks under Khokhloma.
        1. Hagen
          Hagen 24 January 2023 11: 48
          -1
          Quote: Aviator_
          And without this journalist by education, there is no one to establish a connection?

          Sechin is a teacher of Portuguese and French by education, Medvedev and Putin are lawyers, Guberniev is a coach, and how many waiters with diplomas of managers and lawyers cannot be whispered .... For many people, life has turned out in such a way that professional activity does not coincide with a diploma. And Rogozin's activity, in principle, is not entirely related to engineering. He is the organizer of a group in which there are specialists necessary to solve problems. I would notice such a feature: those who didn’t work with him at all from the word, even in principle, hayat him. But those who hired him and paid him money did not say anything bad about him. What is it for? So if Khokhloma in the Khokhloma region will help the tankers, then painting them is not a sin. You always need to look at the essence and the practical way out ....
        2. Guran33 Sergey
          Guran33 Sergey 24 January 2023 12: 35
          +6
          Doctor of Technical Sciences, specialization "weapons theory, weapons system, military-technical policy" - pretentious call sign - journalist in burning Yugoslavia and Pridnestrovian combat youth and all this - Rogozin
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 24 January 2023 17: 10
            +1
            Doctor of Technical Sciences, specialization "weapons theory, weapons system, military-technical policy" -
            And this is all Rogozin? How much this "doctor" prepared candidates of sciences, I would like to know.
          2. Enverych
            Enverych 26 January 2023 22: 59
            0
            Thanks for the comment, it helped to take a fresh look at Rogozin. Not everything is crystal clear in the biography (like everyone else), but a lot and very worthy.
      3. Vlodek
        Vlodek 24 January 2023 20: 53
        -2
        they wounded him in the very place through which he established this feedback.
    4. Woroshilow
      Woroshilow 24 January 2023 09: 33
      +5
      a separate assault machine gun is a matter of the future
      "This is already a matter of the present, a Tokar-2 machine gun, caliber 5,45x39, powered by tape or box magazines, an optical sight, barrels of different lengths.
      1. ailcat
        ailcat 24 January 2023 23: 14
        +1
        Future. Because how to saw Cord-5,45 - do not cut it.
        Firstly, it turned out that he could not work with the feeder (the backpack-feeder for 1000 rounds, so desired by any machine gunner, is not a tape for 100-150, it is much more difficult to stretch a cartridge from it to the feed mechanism, especially to a machine-type mechanism). And this does not seem like a child's problem, but quite a constructive miscalculation (perhaps forcedly caused by the lower energy of the cartridge) - because the machine gunners are asking for the replacement of the box with the feeder, if not all, then through one for sure ...
        Secondly, this overgrown store looks (I’ll note - it looks exactly, because I didn’t find any test data in open sources) not very reliable due to as many as 4 streams of cartridge supply. Plus (which, as it were, is not even more critical) it cannot be put into unloading - i.e. and as an emergency replacement for the feeder, it is very inconvenient to wear, if at all possible. I would not be surprised if the machine gunners liked the opportunity to fasten a conventional automatic horn more than this misunderstanding.
  5. andrewkor
    andrewkor 24 January 2023 04: 32
    +4
    And I like the Singapore Ultimax100. Not as hyped as the Minimi, and even older.
  6. The comment was deleted.
    1. fax66
      fax66 24 January 2023 12: 01
      +3
      That's what the "supreme" loves and knows how - to persuade ....
      But to command - here he has problems ... and with determination - problems ...
    2. Guran33 Sergey
      Guran33 Sergey 24 January 2023 12: 38
      +1
      Rogozin arrived, how much dirt was poured on him on the VO resource .. stop
  7. Aristarkh Pasechnik
    Aristarkh Pasechnik 24 January 2023 04: 41
    +6
    That is, the same RPK 7,62 * 39, only with tape power! 1000 cartridges 7,62 * 54 weighs an average of 25 kg !!! When 7,62 * 39 1000 rounds of only 17 kg! Of course there is a difference!
    1. PROXOR
      PROXOR 24 January 2023 10: 49
      +1
      Ek You swung. Let there be a drum for 100 rounds. A tape feed or forced spring is the second question.
  8. Bingo
    Bingo 24 January 2023 04: 47
    -3
    Of course, now there may be readers who personally knew “from such a” machine gunner, 170 cm tall and weighing a kitten.

    Here above these words is a Shikoka machine gunner tall? Meter 3? And if you remember the length of the Pecheneg? A little less than 1,2 meters?
  9. svp67
    svp67 24 January 2023 05: 04
    +2
    In general, the appearance of an assault machine gun for urban development has been formed. And the army needs such a machine gun, since military operations are conducted not where it is convenient, but where it is necessary.

    It is possible that this is RPL-20 what

    In general, the view from the “other” side is interesting, here an expert from Ukraine evaluates Soviet and foreign models of machine guns in service with the Armed Forces of Ukraine

    1. Woroshilow
      Woroshilow 24 January 2023 09: 44
      +3
      The RPL does not have power from box magazines, if you already buy machine guns in this caliber, then this is Tokar-2
      1. Sergei N 58912062
        Sergei N 58912062 25 January 2023 01: 55
        0
        Quote from Woroshilow
        The RPL does not have power from box magazines, if you already buy machine guns in this caliber, then this is Tokar-2

        I agree with you.
      2. uav80
        uav80 25 January 2023 08: 21
        +1
        FN Minimi also not all modifications have the ability to use the STANAG box magazine, only the tape, for example, ordered by SOCOM: Minimi Para M249 SPW or Mk 46 Mod 0/1
  10. Konnick
    Konnick 24 January 2023 05: 15
    +10
    The machine gunner and his second number can be immediately distinguished from ordinary fighters.


    At one time, Sturmgever was made to distribute the power of machine-gun fire to the entire squad, following the principle of not putting all your eggs in one basket. Since the slight difference in machine gun fire makes the machine gun crew a priority target for the sniper and turns the machine gunner into a suicide bomber.

    There are other problems besides machine guns.

    If we recall Pavlovka, however, like any other of our offensives, almost all losses were from artillery. We go on the offensive, concentrate on the site, we are held back by minefields and enemy oncoming fire, from which you can lie down. But in closed positions, out of our reach, there are barrels and work out a 'training task' for us - like in a shooting range. And you can't get much fire from such fire - it falls from above.


    The APU does not bother with machine guns.
    This is Khodakovsky's message from yesterday. For some reason, Khodakovsky does not criticize machine guns.

    I must say that we have not yet developed a systemic weapon that could reach enemy artillery and hit it with a high proportion


    There is another countermeasure against artillery and mortar fire, in addition to the main counter-battery fight, this is the rapid movement of an infantry unit at maximum speed ... and here is a loaded machine-gun crew that can only move at the speed of a pregnant woman.

    Tactics must be changed, not machine guns.
    The priority of the action of the infantryman should be the identification of targets, with further target designation and adjustment of fire, both from the ground and with the help of UAVs, and not pouring fire on phantom targets at a distance of a kilometer from a super-duper machine gun with an endless supply of ammunition.
    1. Von_Schmidt
      Von_Schmidt 24 January 2023 08: 34
      +6
      We are talking about a purely private situation of having a convenient machine gun for combat in urban areas. And what about tactics in general? And if you have civilians sitting in the basement? Are you also going to smoke the enemy from the floors with artillery?
    2. DesToeR
      DesToeR 24 January 2023 12: 38
      +3
      Quote: Konnick
      The APU does not bother with machine guns.

      Quote: Konnick
      Tactics must be changed, not machine guns.

      In! Appropriate commentary. Everything has already been invented 100 years ago. If the Belgian machine gun were so good, then they would not refuse it in favor of other models.
  11. Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 24 January 2023 05: 54
    +5
    In urban areas, firing distances are much lower than outside settlements, and therefore:
    - the caliber may be less than 7,62 mm, 5,45mm is fine. But the stock of cartridges can be taken more. Actually, for this they came up with a caliber of 5,45 mm;

    Personally I = STRONGLY AGAINST caliber 5,45 instead of 7,62 for the MACHINE GUN !!! belay am
    for machine guns - figs with him, but not for machine guns !!!
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 24 January 2023 06: 03
      -2
      Personally, I = CATEGORICALLY AGAINST caliber 5,45 instead of 7,62 for a MACHINE GUN !!! belay am
      for machine guns - figs with him, but not for machine guns !!!

      In the infantry squad, the ammunition must be uniform. Leave the defeat of targets at long distances to artillery and mortars.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 24 January 2023 06: 45
        0
        Quote: Konnick
        In the infantry squad, the ammunition must be uniform. Leave the defeat of targets at long distances to artillery and mortars.

        The infantry squad in our time works from infantry fighting vehicles or armored personnel carriers. And they have a machine gun of the right caliber. So the norms with unification are not necessary ...
      2. insafufa
        insafufa 24 January 2023 08: 19
        +2
        Quote: Konnick
        Personally, I = CATEGORICALLY AGAINST caliber 5,45 instead of 7,62 for a MACHINE GUN !!! belay am
        for machine guns - figs with him, but not for machine guns !!!

        In the infantry squad, the ammunition must be uniform. Leave the defeat of targets at long distances to artillery and mortars.

        So 7,62 has higher lethality against infantry in armor
    2. Bingo
      Bingo 24 January 2023 06: 07
      +4
      Quote: Corona without virus
      CATEGORICALLY AGAINST caliber 5,45 instead of 7,62 for the MACHINE GUN!

      Moreover, the Americans called "increased combat distance" one of the main reasons for switching to a larger caliber for a machine gun. So for a machine gun, not only is it 7,62, it’s categorically not an automatic gun !!!
      Pisi, and also - "an easel machine gun for small arms infantry weapons is inaccessible with ammunition"
    3. Negro
      Negro 24 January 2023 12: 02
      -4
      Quote: Corona without virus
      for machine guns - figs with him, but not for machine guns !!!

      These are different guns. Minimi and M48 / M240.
      1. insafufa
        insafufa 24 January 2023 13: 13
        +3
        Quote: Negro
        Quote: Corona without virus
        for machine guns - figs with him, but not for machine guns !!!

        These are different guns. Minimi and M48 / M240.

        Есть статья Офицера КМП США Aмepикaнcкий oфицep o пpoблeмax пулeмётa M249 KMП мoжeт пoучитcя у Coвeтcкoй Apмии, кoтopaя в нaчaлe вocьмидecятыx peшилa избaвитьcя oт 7,62 мм PПД c лeнтoчным питaниeм в cвoиx cтpeлкoвыx взвoдax и зaмeнить иx, пpaвильнo, coвeтcкoй AR PПK. RPK is the same AK rifle with a longer and heavier barrel, bipods attached to the barrel, a slightly modified butt (for automatic fire from a prone position) and a sector magazine zoom. Soviet designers understood the problems that arose in the department with a belt feed of cartridges, so they got rid of them, returning to the basic concept of an automatic rifle. If you do not understand why they did this, contact any infantryman - a veteran of military operations. His answer will be something like “ribbons are too much weight and too much trouble. That's why." The Soviet military thought of this and made the right conclusion. I fear that we will need to suffer senseless losses in various situations in order for us to realize that a light machine gun in the role of an automatic rifle is unsuitable.
        1. Negro
          Negro 24 January 2023 15: 03
          0
          Quote: insafufa
          There is an article by an officer of the USMC American officer about the problems of the M249 machine gun

          Oh, this is kowtowing before the West.

          This pen pal has been going on in America for a hundred years. Bury them with a stewardess, that is, a machine gunner in the department, or still dig them out. The answer is simple - in different situations in different ways.

          However, when speaking of the USMC, they now refer to the experience of the SA 60 years ago, and this experience in itself, in turn, is considered "advanced" for the conditional RF Armed Forces - this, of course, is simply stupid.

          Can there be a squad without a machine gun, but let's say with a multiply charged grenade launcher? Yes maybe.
          Can there be a squad without a machine gun, with a uniform weapon like the M27 rifle, which is both an RPK and an SVD in itself? Yes maybe.
          Can there be a department with a sprinkler and M4 carbines, aka AKSU - yes, it can.

          And which of these departments do you need specifically and which one can you afford? Let me remind you, for example, that a marine has an M27, but you do not. It's completely different and specific conversation.
          1. insafufa
            insafufa 24 January 2023 15: 52
            +1
            Quote: Negro
            Oh, this is kowtowing before the West.
            in principle, one can agree with his arguments; the final transition from the RPD to the PKK took place in the 80s. If we talk about the analog of Minimi, then first you need to provide the troops with loose disposable tapes that will be released already in the equipped form, otherwise it will not work, since even the AKM has to equip the tape with the whole squad turning the machine in turn. The whole jamb of the RPK-16 is that it does not have the same resource as the PKM Pecheneg, Tambourine is a good thing, in fact, a replacement is an excellent replacement for the tape, unlike four in-line magazines for 60 rounds. The tape does not solve everyone's problems, but creates new ones when the fire is intensified.
            1. Negro
              Negro 24 January 2023 16: 35
              -2
              Quote: insafufa
              in principle, one can agree with his arguments

              You don't have to agree with his arguments. The machine gun and the weighted assault rifle are different types of weapons. The M27 machine gun is not and never will be. But the separation can be done without a machine gun - this is possible and it may be advisable for the ILC. And for someone else, including the US MTR and the US Army, the rejection of the tape is not appropriate. Yes, and the ILC can change its mind every six months.

              It's nice to be rich.

              Quote: insafufa
              Minimi, first you need to provide the troops with loose disposable tapes that will be released already equipped

              By itself. That's what they do.
              Quote: insafufa
              The tape does not solve everyone's problems, but creates new ones when the fire is intensified

              The machine gun is generally somewhat different. And the tape is simply a consequence of the higher allowable consumption of ammunition.
  12. Konnick
    Konnick 24 January 2023 06: 17
    -2
    We don’t even consider the RPK-16, because although it is better in terms of performance characteristics (as they say) than the RPK-74, because it is made on the basis of the AK-12 (which also claims a wagon), but in fact it is an assault rifle with an elongated barrel and the same combat characteristics


    I absolutely disagree with this statement. A thicker barrel improves shooting accuracy. At distances up to 600 meters, the RPK-16 with a long barrel is more accurate than the SVD, in addition, a variable magnification optical sight makes this weapon a sniper. This is not even a machine gun, but a single unified small arms, changing barrels of different lengths, magazines of various capacities, installing or removing bipods and optics, we get the weapon we need at the moment of hostilities, whether it be a city, open or wooded area, defense or attacking actions.
    By the way, store food is much more reliable than tape food. Belt feed is good only when used in stationary positions or on vehicles, and not in a maneuvering battle with an infantryman.
  13. Firemann
    Firemann 24 January 2023 06: 19
    +5
    But there are RPDs in the warehouses. There is an intermediate cartridge and tape power.
    1. Tim
      Tim 24 January 2023 07: 33
      +7
      Correct RPD cartridge 7.62x39 for its time is a good machine gun. Look at the custom RPD from DS Arms - USA.
      Military review
      RPD machine gun
      8 2015 June
      Author:
      Ryabov Kirill
      1. Dante Alighieri
        Dante Alighieri 24 January 2023 08: 28
        +2
        I join, I also thought about the "old man". There are tens of thousands of them in warehouses (maybe even a hundred others will be typed). The upgrade is minimal and done on the knee. The barrel is shortened, a DTK / flame arrester with a front sight is screwed onto it, a new tsivier with a picatinny rail for sighting devices, reconciliation and a handle from below is installed, the trigger mechanism with the butt and the tape box are changed. The bipod can be attached to the gas outlet tube or make a folding handle as in the photo above. As a result, it is quite possible to fit into the dimensions of the same shortened Pecheneg-SP, only without problems with the supply of BC. And no R&D for decades, the need for new field tests or recreated large-scale production. Moreover, unlike the Pechenegs, it will be possible to saturate the army with such machine guns very quickly. It would have turned out to be a normal such machine gun of the department, which the RPD has always been, but as a company machine gun, you can leave the PKM - one will succinctly complement the other.
        1. PROXOR
          PROXOR 24 January 2023 10: 51
          +3
          Only not DTK and the bank. You yourself glow less and you don’t catch bunnies from flashes after 5 minutes.
          1. PSih2097
            PSih2097 25 January 2023 02: 41
            +1
            Quote: PROXOR
            Only not DTK and the bank. You yourself glow less and you don’t catch bunnies from flashes after 5 minutes.

            Is that

            Single machine gun AEK-999 "Badger"
      2. insafufa
        insafufa 24 January 2023 13: 17
        +1
        Quote: Tima
        Correct RPD cartridge 7.62x39 for its time is a good machine gun. Look at the custom RPD from DS Arms - USA.
        Military review
        RPD machine gun
        8 2015 June
        Author:
        Ryabov Kirill

        I already wrote the answer above why the RPD cannot be returned without changing the caliber from 5,45x39 to 7,62x39, since it makes it impossible to use a single ammunition in place of two types of ammunition, you will have to carry 3 types that are not interchangeable
        Quote: insafufa
        Есть статья Офицера КМП США Aмepикaнcкий oфицep o пpoблeмax пулeмётa M249 KMП мoжeт пoучитcя у Coвeтcкoй Apмии, кoтopaя в нaчaлe вocьмидecятыx peшилa избaвитьcя oт 7,62 мм PПД c лeнтoчным питaниeм в cвoиx cтpeлкoвыx взвoдax и зaмeнить иx, пpaвильнo, coвeтcкoй AR PПK. RPK is the same AK rifle with a longer and heavier barrel, bipods attached to the barrel, a slightly modified butt (for automatic fire from a prone position) and a sector magazine zoom. Soviet designers understood the problems that arose in the department with a belt feed of cartridges, so they got rid of them, returning to the basic concept of an automatic rifle. If you do not understand why they did this, contact any infantryman - a veteran of military operations. His answer will be something like “ribbons are too much weight and too much trouble. That's why." The Soviet military thought of this and made the right conclusion. I fear that we will need to suffer senseless losses in various situations in order for us to realize that a light machine gun in the role of an automatic rifle is unsuitable.
    2. uav80
      uav80 25 January 2023 09: 06
      +2
      The RPD machine gun was good for its time, it “killed” its GRAU requirement for unification with AK. Yes, and not without flaws in the design, of course, which can no longer be solved on the "knees", a completely new machine gun would have to be made. For example, there is no single fire, firing is carried out from an open bolt, which can lead to contamination of the feed system and, accordingly, delays in firing, while it is not so easy for the shooter to quickly solve the problem with a delay, the machine gun turned out to be quite demanding on cleanliness. Adjusting the gas block requires a special tool, which in the field led to inconvenience, and the adjustment itself is not such a quick process. The inconvenience is also that the spent cartridges fly out to the bottom under the box with the tape and the shooter just has to lie on them.
  14. Revolver
    Revolver 24 January 2023 06: 34
    0
    such a machine gun is needed by the Russian infantry. Although it seems to us and others would not refuse such weapons exactly.
    So it turns out that the T-90 turkeys have many times more than the RF Armed Forces. And the boys go into battle on the ancient T-72, and even the T-62.
  15. Amateur
    Amateur 24 January 2023 06: 36
    +3
    only one thing was added: the impossibility of practically shooting at long distances.

    the barrel can and should be made shorter, a firing range of 1-1,5 km in the city is not needed;

    This is all from the above article. recourse
  16. VicktorVR
    VicktorVR 24 January 2023 06: 38
    +7
    As usual.
    Before carrying out any modernization and improvement, it is necessary to restore elementary order in the existing situation.
    And for some reason, we are very fond of radically changing everything, without understanding and without asking the direct executors.

    There is nothing to say about providing each machine gun with modern sights, and with a margin for wear / breakage, etc., in a good way the current state of affairs is sabotage, execution

    A new machine gun is a very long time, although it is necessary.

    At the PKM, the barrel is interchangeable, it is possible to arrange the production of short barrels, this is much faster than a new machine gun and easier to supply and replace if necessary
    1. LastPS
      LastPS 24 January 2023 20: 32
      +1
      In the PKM, the barrel is interchangeable, it is possible to arrange the production of short barrels, this is much faster than a new machine gun and easier to supply and replace if necessary.


      This is the only correct option if the problem is really significant and needs to be solved in a short time, and, by the way, in a long time, because no one will release a separate machine gun for such Wishlist, and release a shortened barrel and screw a picatinny bar with a collimator to spit.
  17. not the one
    not the one 24 January 2023 06: 38
    +9
    Here we do not have such a machine gun.
    For each question there is a clear answer:
    We have “maxims”, they don't have it.
    Hillary Belloc. "Modern Traveler" (1898)
  18. Setavr
    Setavr 24 January 2023 06: 52
    +8
    FN Minimi Para is just what we were talking about. Compared to the base model FN Minimi, it is lighter (6,56 kg vs. 8,17 kg with a non-folding stock), shorter (766 mm vs. 1015 mm), the barrel is shorter (349 mm vs. 465 mm) and therefore slightly lower muzzle velocity (866 m/s vs 950 m/s)

    What is the author smoking? Compares 5,56 machine gun to 7,62x54R? How?
    What gun do you need? The answer is already there, there is no desire and money.
    Cartridge 6x49. The recoil momentum is slightly higher than that of 5,45, and the energy is higher than 7,62x54R, the accuracy is higher. The range of weapons for it was designed and created in metal and passed all the tests 30 years ago.
    If they are not going to change the cartridge, then you don’t have to bother with the rest (they made the AK-12, which only the lazy didn’t justify). In the 50 years since the creation of 5,45, nothing new has appeared.
    1. Dimax-nemo
      Dimax-nemo 24 January 2023 08: 00
      +6
      With 6x49, you can not remember at all about the accuracy of automatic fire at the desired (500-600 m) range from a machine gun. To what extent this is actually achievable and necessary (considering the experience of the Academy of Sciences) is another question.
    2. Negro
      Negro 24 January 2023 12: 05
      -8
      Quote: Setavr
      What gun do you need? The answer is already there, there is no desire and money.
      Cartridge 6x49

      Just a new caliber was not enough.
  19. Dimax-nemo
    Dimax-nemo 24 January 2023 07: 58
    +8
    I would venture to remind the author of something. Bren was originally designed with tape power. At the request of the military of Czechoslovakia, it was converted into a shop.
    The reason is that the store changes much faster than the tape. At the same time, according to the experience of the Second World War, light machine guns fire, as a rule, in short bursts. Therefore, in the USSR, the question of what kind of food is needed for a light machine gun of the squad remained at least debatable. From the belt RPD (hello Minimi - it is by no means the first belt-fed light machine gun for an intermediate cartridge) they switched to magazine-type RPKs. Moreover, the RPK-74 was left without a “tambourine”, I don’t know what motivated this, but the DP / DPM disk magazines were by no means considered their merit, even the PPSh ended up knocking out an ordinary store.
    RPK is not just a bigger machine gun. This is a different quality of automatic fire - thanks to a longer and heavier barrel and bipod.
    By the way, again, according to the experience of the Second World War, easel (which now usually does not apply to PKM) machine guns beyond 1000 m rarely fired. Although even before the war they were going, and it was Maxim who had some "opportunities" for this. Taking into account the presence of infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers with automatic guns, mounted grenade launchers, it is now even less clear why this might be necessary.
    With a difference in the rate of fire of 700 and 900 rounds per minute, the difference in combat rate of fire will be much less. Almost all infantry machine guns, except for MG34 / 42, etc., have a rate of fire of no more than 800 rounds per minute. The Germans somehow carried 2-3 thousand rounds of ammunition without knapsacks. True, they had more than 8 people in their squads minus the crew of the armor.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 24 January 2023 08: 24
      0
      Quote: Dimax-Nemo
      With a difference in the rate of fire of 700 and 900 rounds per minute, the difference in combat rate of fire will be much less.

      The author about the rate of fire clearly screwed up.
    2. hostel
      hostel 24 January 2023 10: 00
      +4
      At the Germans, the entire squad carried cartridges for machine guns.
    3. DesToeR
      DesToeR 24 January 2023 12: 49
      +3
      Quote: Dimax-Nemo
      At the request of the military of Czechoslovakia, it was converted into a shop.
      The reason is that the store changes much faster than the tape.

      The store is easier to re-equip. In the store, all cartridges are closed by the case. Magazine weapons are simpler in design than tape-fed ones. The practical rate of fire of Soviet / Russian light machine guns is not limited by the method of feeding, but by the ability of the "barrel" to withstand the desired rate of fire (about 150 highs per 1 minute). If you introduce a thicker barrel into the design and change the shot from a closed bolt to an open one, then the practical rate of fire of the RPK-74 with 45 cartridge magazines can easily be brought up to the level of a Belgian machine gun. Question: do you really need a light machine gun with a practical rate of fire of more than 150 high. in a minute?
  20. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 24 January 2023 08: 27
    +4
    I ran for an hour with a machine gun, I had to ... then I came to my senses for a long time .. and so yes., our couple - the guys were both healthy as moose ... you go crazy running straight, and when the city, bricks, ruins, all sorts of debris ..and even winter and appropriate clothing ... but the fact that a machine gun is needed specifically for the city was a long overdue question, back in the First War, "specialists" said .. there were generally terminators .. we looked at them like astronauts))
  21. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 24 January 2023 08: 37
    +2
    The author, as always, made a discovery - it turns out that there are different types of combat (combat in the city, combat in open areas, I will add - there is also indoor combat). And for them it is desirable to have specialized small arms.
  22. Ohsetin
    Ohsetin 24 January 2023 08: 44
    +3
    Well, since we have no problems with anything in the army, as the generals from the General Staff say, except for unshaven beards

    Yes, beards do not affect shooting. But, the dominance of "beards" is not only in the army and leads, incl. to the fact that there are no sights, but there are no sleeves for the PKM in the army.
  23. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 24 January 2023 08: 50
    +4
    Quote: Sergey_tactics
    I happened to serve OKSVA. And there the order was like this - you go to the combat at least somehow. But he returned to the unit - be so kind as to put yourself in order. Everybody. It was the USSR.

    He put one thing in order, and another, when you dig through the basements and ruins for at least a week in the city .. in winter, where and how can I shave my face there?? someone grows slowly, and someone every day in a peaceful life you need to shave .. it's not about beards ...
  24. Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. 24 January 2023 09: 48
    +5
    Under STALIN, howitzers were created in 25 days, and if they had not been created, you know where they would be. And now some people are chewing snot, not realizing that the RUSSIAN SOLDIER should not die and EVERYTHING needs to be done for this. Right now, and those who did not, let them rest in Kolyma!
  25. Old electrician
    Old electrician 24 January 2023 09: 53
    +9
    I am a peaceful person, so I fired only two types of machine guns: RPD and RPK-74.
    RPK-74 is an ideal thing for the home - for the family. I would go with him to my gardening in the evenings, and everyone would respect me. am
    As for the RPD, this is exactly what the author writes about:
    The mass of the RPD is 7,4 kg (with a box and an unloaded tape) or 9 kg (with a box and an equipped tape).
    The weight of the Pecheneg on the bipod is 8,7 kg, the weight of the box with the equipped tape for 100 rounds is 3,9 kg. Total 12,6 kg of Pecheneg against 9 kg of RPD. Feel the difference.
    RPD warehouses should be full. The disadvantage is that the RPD does not provide for the installation of other sighting devices. In my opinion, this can be easily eliminated by elementary refinement. But the RPD is simple and reliable as a revolver.
    Some US firms, such as DS Arms, produce upgraded RPDs. Modernization includes a telescopic buttstock, Picatinny rail forearm, ergonomic bipod, plastic handle. And we are worse?
    As for firing from the RPD, it's just a song! No problem, time-tested design!
  26. cold wind
    cold wind 24 January 2023 09: 54
    +6
    Why instead and not together?
    Let us turn to the experience of the United States, their infantry platoon consists of 3 squads and 1 squad of heavy weapons.
    In the department of 9 people, they have 2 M240 machine guns (Minimi), 2 underbarrel 40 mm M203 grenade launchers, 7 carbines or instead of 1 shooter they put an infantry sniper (Marksman)


    In a platoon, a weapons compartment with 2 M240 machine guns and 2 heavy RPG / ATGM

    Total per platoon: 6 pieces of 5,56 machine guns, 2 pieces of 7,62 machine guns, 6 40-mm grenade launchers, 2 heavy RPG / ATGM, 1-3 sniper rifles. There may be light RPGs, UAVs and other necessary equipment or weapons.

    In addition, the company still has a separate platoon of heavy weapons. The fire power of their infantry is overwhelming, ours already looks faded against their background.
    1. Negro
      Negro 24 January 2023 12: 08
      -2
      Quote from cold wind
      The firepower of their infantry is overwhelming, ours already looks faded against their background

      )))
      You haven’t seen this MTR yet with 6,5 Creedmore and .338 norm.
  27. hostel
    hostel 24 January 2023 09: 55
    +3
    What is the article about? It looks like Yaroslavna's crying from scratch. No one will make machine guns for battle in the city or outside the city, a maximum of a replaceable barrel. But it also needs to be worn constantly, this is minus a certain number of rounds. Secondly, why are they clinging to the RPK-16? This is a prototype. The author apparently does not know what RPL-20 is.
  28. Altmann
    Altmann 24 January 2023 09: 57
    +2
    this is a solvable problem and I believe work is in progress on a completed product. Russian machine gunners are already a European school and we just need to continue. My combat experience is quite clear. Although the discussion is ambiguous, it is still interesting am
  29. Wayfarer_2
    Wayfarer_2 24 January 2023 10: 01
    +2
    I think that in order to lighten the weight of the ammunition load, it is necessary to make a machine gun chambered for 308Win (7,62x51). This cartridge is lighter than 7,62x54. And it’s not worth making a machine gun with a caliber of 5,45, given the means of protection used.
  30. Georgy Sviridov_2
    Georgy Sviridov_2 24 January 2023 10: 25
    +5
    Well, I saw a machine gunner 170 with a penny, but really it was a healthy seven-wire boar.
    Although of course this is an exception to the rule, confirming the rule.
    1. Dost
      Dost 24 January 2023 20: 21
      +1
      But I saw the opposite. The boar was given an SVD, and a shorty in 170cm PKM
  31. Georgy Sviridov_2
    Georgy Sviridov_2 24 January 2023 11: 19
    +7
    Fuck the machine gun belt feed. A light machine gun in urban combat?
    The point is, a machine gunner at the squad level does not have a second number. And he has no one to equip the tape, he has no one to help fill the tape. And if he can equip the store on the sly himself, while having another store fastened and a machine gun ready for battle, and if necessary, he will move, he simply puts the underloaded store in the pouch and slides out, then the underloaded tape will either have to be abandoned or spent time storing it, and this is a maneuverable urban combat.
    About the system of "endless" supply of the "scorpion" type, there are again 2 problems, the first is that the barrel of a light machine gun, during active work, after about 500 shots, will become hot and it will spit, and on the other hand, it is again impossible to quickly reload the system, while with with a magazine machine gun, a fighter can ask for an automatic magazine from any fighter or take it from his or her killed or enemy, and will not be left without cartridges in the middle of the battle, but a squad (a group without a machine gun).
    There is an option to develop a machine gun with 2 types of food, that is, both a tape and a magazine. Such systems exist. But! This is a question of reliability, but I consider it acceptable as an option, otherwise for close combat, a machine gunner without a second calculation number is always better than a magazine one.
    If we are talking about a full-fledged calculation, or some kind of local police operations, then for a long time there has been a Pecheneg bullpup, this is a very compact (for a machine gun) weapon, especially for working in cramped city conditions and has proven itself perfectly.
    At the expense of light machine guns, modern magazines need to be brought to mind, both box-shaped for 60 rounds and disk ones. As soon as they are brought to mind, the problem itself will immediately be solved.
    As for the machine gun collegiators, if we are talking about the PKM / Pecheneg, then only the National Guard and other anti-terrors.
    But the issue of equipping with optics and night (not even necessarily thermal imaging) sights is really acute.
    Light machine guns may need a collimator with a small zoom, I think everyone needs a night sight. Not everyone can have thermal imagers (well, you really need to be a realist half a million + we are unlikely to be able to produce a stock of Thermal imagers quickly, and they are not always needed), but it is necessary to put cheaper night sights at least on the main weapon (sniper systems and machine guns) . Where necessary, there should be thermal imagers, but everyone should have night sights, well, maybe except for rear units, and I think they should be there.
    I mean, to sum it up:
    Light machine guns need to bring high-capacity box and disc magazines to mind. For a shooter without a second number, they are more convenient than tapes, in addition, this will always allow you to stick in just an AK magazine at an emergency moment and not be left in the middle of a battle without a BC. It is important!
    I agree with the author that saturating the army with optical sights with the ability to work at night (night and thermal imaging) is the most important task, which really allows you to greatly increase the effectiveness of the infantry (much more than adopting a new machine gun, machine gun or rifle).
    At the expense of collimators, for army units specifically, I consider machine-gun crews, if not unnecessary, then definitely not a priority. But for machine guns, and light machine guns, on the contrary.
    Regarding the compact machine gun - there is a Pecheneg bullpup. An excellent compact weapon for close combat, combat in the city, work from a vehicle. It’s another matter that their production needs to be increased, and the soldiers, especially in the most trained units, need to be given 2 different machine guns, and so that they can use the one that is more convenient for a particular operation ... It’s one thing to defend in the trenches and another to storm a city building or clear a forest array.
    1. saygon66
      saygon66 24 January 2023 13: 52
      +4
      For Americans, loose belts go to a machine gun equipped "out of the box" ... "Bank" RPD is just right for this.
      The possibilities of high-capacity magazines are limited by the characteristics of the feeder springs ... And the systems for supplying cartridges using the pressure of powder gases directly to the feeder smile no one has come up with yet .... It seems that there were experiments with the feeder electric drive, but it didn’t work ...
      1. Eule
        Eule 25 January 2023 22: 20
        0
        Quote: saygon66
        experiments with the feeder electric drive, but it didn’t work ...

        Because TTZ must be coordinated with the laws of electrochemistry, and not require "20 years of storage in an unheated warehouse." Actually, this is the only option IMHO, this is when the "sleeve" ends with a neck from the magazine, and the cartridges are pushed into it by the electric drive in the knapsack. Yes, a battery is needed. So make several connectors so that, in the event of a loss of a regular one, you can hook any battery from a broken UAV, from a walkie-talkie, or some other small one.
  32. Clone
    Clone 24 January 2023 11: 37
    +5
    "The presence of a light but durable body armor today is the norm for a fighter, and not something supernatural. And here the 5,45-mm and 5,56-mm cartridges began to gradually lose to modern materials ... "
    "In general, it is worth agreeing with the opinions of many gunsmiths who believe that the 7,62 mm caliber is still relevant ...
    We, unlike the USA, have even less money. Not to mention the amounts.
    ..." (with)
    https://topwar.ru/138995-762-mm-shag-vpered-ili-nazad.html
    Well, it must be the same author. In April we show all the charms and the need to increase the caliber from 5.45 to .., and in January - "...the caliber may be less than 7,62 mm, 5,45 mm will be fine ... Many may object: would it not be very bold, to have a separate machine gun for combat in the city, a separate one for the field? Where to attack? And what will it look like? It will look normal. ." (with)
    Well, and so on. Draw your own conclusions.
    As the most infantry, I can say that weapons for war must be unified.
  33. faterdom
    faterdom 24 January 2023 12: 07
    +4
    Quote: Leader_Barmaleev
    The main problem in the production of rifles in Russia is metal. More precisely, high-strength alloys that do not change their properties when heated, do not enter into chemical reactions with the combustion products of gunpowder, etc.

    In fact, we got a backlog from the USSR in terms of alloys, which in the West still dream of stealing, although we already got a lot in the "holy 90s".
    That is why in Afghanistan and Tajikistan, the Russians and their exact counterpart, the Bulgarian AKM and PKK, were valued an order of magnitude higher than the Chinese or Romanian ones. And the controlled flight of hypersonic missiles is one of the most important tasks of NATO intelligence, and there are also materials.
    In gunpowder and plastics - there is a lag here, it is necessary to straighten it out.
    But after all, we are talking about conceptually different things - backpack nutrition, it is possible for attack aircraft and two-pack, weight distribution is better and additional chest protection, and lying on the belly, an attack aircraft rarely works. The interchangeable barrel is short-long for single machine guns, or better still a special assault one.
    There would be a desire to listen, but there is already someone to tell.
  34. vovochkarzhevsky
    vovochkarzhevsky 24 January 2023 12: 18
    +4
    While reading the article, I could not get rid of the feeling of having already read it. Then I realized that the main message is just like according to Nikolai Vasilyevich, Gogol who.
    If Nikanor Ivanovich’s lips were to be attached to Ivan Kuzmich’s nose, to take some swagger, like Balthazar’s Balthazarych’s, and, perhaps, to add Ivan Pavlovich’s prettiness to this - I would have decided immediately.

    Well, plus a hefty admixture of the plot from the fairy tale about the "golden fish", in the part when everything is not enough. lol

    Now seriously. It would be naive to believe that after talking with just one crew who have been in machine-gun battles, it will be possible to draw up a technical task for a new machine gun.
    Here you need to interview at least a hundred on record, and then be surprised. The lion's share of the wishes of the machine gunners themselves will contradict each other. One, then give it to another, on the contrary, it’s completely different.
    And even what remains under a common denominator will have to be processed, because it will not work to embody them in one sample. Because for sure everyone will agree that the machine gun weighs like an AK, shoots far and exactly like an SVD, and pierces like an anti-tank rifle.
    The wishes of those who use weapons always exceed the current technological level many times over. And this concerns not only machine gunners, would you listen to what pilots say to representatives of design bureaus, but these are people with higher education in their field.
    As for the PKM, this is a very advanced machine gun, which, if it needs to be modernized, is very insignificant, mainly in the field of materials used. And all sorts of cardinal alterations there, such as shortening the barrel, bullshit.
    In Germany, the MG-42 from the war is still used, although it also has enough problems.
    However, it has long been known that the worse the user owns weapons or equipment, the more complaints he has about them.
    The same applies to tactics, at the squad-platoon level. And the fact that there are also big problems here indicates that they are trying to attach a machine gunner to the machine gunner, and a couple of grenade launchers to boot. In fact, how to pull it all, just right to get rid of something. And best of all from a machine gun.
    It's not sarcasm at all, it's reality. Because making an assault pair out of a machine-gun crew is not just stupidity, but squared stupidity.
    Yes, PKM is more powerful than a machine gun. Then why not give the DShK a crew of two, or even better a cannon. Sarcasm of course.
    You just need to understand what the machine gun and its calculation are for. For fire support of at least a squad in battle. This is not an independent combat unit, unlike the shooter.
    And if the machine gun crew supports the squad, then the duty of the squad is to ensure the protection and normal combat work of this same machine gun crew.
    The same Germans did not disdain the entire squad to carry MG-42s for their dowry and cartridge belts, and trunks, and some fragile parts.
    It is also clear that in the conditions of urban combat, it is not always effective to act as a classic squad, you have to use smaller groups.
    In this case, one or two additional shooters must be included in the composition of the machine gun crew. And accordingly distribute the load, and not turn the machine gunner into a pack horse.
    In addition, there is no need to reinvent the wheel, we have gone through all this repeatedly. We had enough experience in street fighting. In the same Chechen wars, and even more so in the Great Patriotic War. You just need to discard excess pride, but read. It's not all outdated.
    And then as you look, our infantry is fighting on its own, tanks on their own. Aviation is not at all clear what it sometimes does. There is no single fist, and this despite the fact that the level of communication is now orders of magnitude higher than it was in the distant forties.
  35. bath
    bath 24 January 2023 12: 27
    +5
    现在的战争表明,俄罗斯军人需要大量的无人机和便携式电台,而不是新机枪。
    1. Victorovich
      Victorovich 26 January 2023 10: 36
      0
      ძნელია ამაზე კამათი.

      Sorry, I'm not smart enough to write a normal comment
  36. ares1988
    ares1988 24 January 2023 12: 27
    -1
    They were going to take cities)) At the 12th month, NOT small and NOT victorious. Fairy tale optimists.
  37. Conjurer
    Conjurer 24 January 2023 12: 34
    +3
    The main thing is really that the lead shower does not stop in the direction where the threat came from, the rest will be completed by attack aircraft
    If you really need the density of cover fire, then the problem is not in the weapon, but in the head. To solve this problem, it is enough to change the tactics of combat in urban areas compared to the field. That is, put more fighters in cover, since it is necessary.
  38. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 24 January 2023 12: 34
    +3
    Why do you need a backpack magazine for 1000 rounds, if after shooting 200 rounds, at a fast pace, the barrel will heat up so that the machine gun will simply "spit". And you can ditch the trunk. A fabric box is already being produced, for 100 rounds, for hand-carrying. I think it's enough. While the box is changing, the barrel cools down.
    1. Georgy Sviridov_2
      Georgy Sviridov_2 24 January 2023 14: 19
      +2
      Well, not 200, it’s still not an automatic machine, and it’s unlikely that anyone will release them in one continuous burst, so he will start spitting after 400-500, but in general he wrote the same thing.
      a "scorpion" with 1000 rounds is good for a single machine gun (Pecheneg), but for local tasks, such as an anti-terror, when there is a separate building or some point that needs to be cleared and there are no more opponents. Then yes, a good system, no need to recharge. If the operation is well planned, then a quick assault, and powerful work to suppress machine gunners. But in combined arms combat, not only is it overweight, it’s still not clear what to do when you still spent BC ...
  39. akela_sp
    akela_sp 24 January 2023 13: 13
    +5
    "... Of course, now there may be readers who personally knew "from such a" machine gunner, 170 cm tall and weighing a kitten. But our people have always been strong in terms of fairy tales and legends, Russian fairy tales are the most fabulous..."
    The novel, as always, knows the ultimate truth, everything else is declared either speculation or fairy tales.
    In August of the 77th near Dubossary (if anyone does not know, then this is Moldova) we were given company exercises and a 20-kilometer forced march. What temperature in Moldova in August in the sun do you need to explain?
    Our Komsomol organizer was about 185 in height, weighed under 90, of course he had a machine gun. So for now, everything is according to Roman.
    And already after three kilometers (well, maybe five) and to the very end, in addition to my machine gun, I also carried his machine gun. You can, Roman, call me not only a storyteller, but also 3,14 ......., because with a height of 174, I then weighed no more than 51.
    That's just bad with witnesses.
    1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
      Sergey Aleksandrovich 24 January 2023 19: 38
      +1
      Similarly, I had similar physical parameters, although I was still heavier. In the most incredible way, I always had a machine gun, but at least kind people helped carry my machine gun.
  40. the same doctor
    the same doctor 24 January 2023 13: 28
    +2
    What is needed is not new machine guns, but the robotization of existing ones. And I know how to do it.
    1. stankow
      stankow 25 January 2023 00: 22
      +1
      Tell me it's interesting!
      .................
  41. alex aircraft
    alex aircraft 24 January 2023 13: 53
    +2
    For some reason, they forgot about the RPD. It has a tape for 100 rounds of 7,62 / 39. What prevents you from putting a collimator / night light on it and into battle? Do you have them in stock??
    1. Negro
      Negro 24 January 2023 14: 36
      -5
      Quote: Alex aircraft
      For some reason, they forgot about the RPD. He has a tape for 100 rounds of 7,62 / 39

      Do you want the third cartridge in the unit?
      1. uav80
        uav80 25 January 2023 09: 50
        +1
        The 3rd cartridge didn’t go anywhere, but the MO tried to get away from 7,62 * 39, but it doesn’t work at all. Take the same operation in Syria, the military police are armed with everything they found in the warehouses, from the AKS to the AK-12, in short, a complete "hodgepodge", but if they are trying to observe some kind of unification in terms of BP as part of one unit, but if the detachments are consolidated, then a mess. It is clear that most of this is still the AK-74 and its various modifications ...




    2. Georgy Sviridov_2
      Georgy Sviridov_2 24 January 2023 22: 07
      +1
      The 7,62*39 cartridge has many drawbacks compared to 5,45*39.
      First of all, this is more weight, namely, the machine gunner needs a lot of ammo.
      The second is flatness, a direct shot at 5,45 per 100 meters further.
      Well, as if the people who replaced the rpd with the rpk were not fools, but veterans and winners in the largest war in the history of mankind, practitioners, not theorists.
      Well, this is not to mention the fact that there are no standard devices for sights on the RPD, they need to be tuned to the fullest.
      It’s easier to pull out the RPKN from the warehouses, they have a place for a sight, and a regular tambourine in addition to long magazines.
    3. vh48905
      vh48905 Yesterday, 17: 33
      0
      There is an RPD, and he hides the RPD, like a bull a sheep (here KK fussed in order to remove the RPD).
      But you still need to switch to 5,45x39.
      Flatness is better, and if you use 7N22 cartridges (a core made of cheap but hardened U12 steel), then penetration is better than that of 7,62x39.
      I don’t know if 7N22 cartridges are actually delivered to the troops, but in terms of production costs, both 7N6 and 7N22 are the same.
  42. Ezekiel 25-17
    Ezekiel 25-17 24 January 2023 14: 08
    +4
    We had a machine gun for an intermediate caliber of 7x6. This is the good old RPD. I think there is an opportunity to pull it out of conservation, to carry out an upgrade: install a telescopic sight, replace the stock, install a Picatinny rail. The next step should be the development of a new machine gun chambered for 39 × 7,63 and the development of a new cartridge 39 × 6,6, taking into account the thoughts set forth by the author.
  43. Illanatol
    Illanatol 24 January 2023 14: 17
    +5
    Store for 30 or 45 rounds - it's not serious, yes, "military experts" murmur that it is possible to hit targets with sniper shots at a distance of up to 600 meters. Well, yes, with a whole and a front sight, sniping accurately. From an under-machine gun, which is the LMG class, or if in Russian, then light machine guns.

    For our opponents from NATO, any machine gun must "eat" the tape.


    In urban combat, 600 meters is more than enough.
    And more important is not the density of the fire, but its accuracy, even in the conditions of a battle in the city.
    What is the use of shooting kilograms of metal if you don’t hit?
    Shops for 45 rounds do not like? Well, having fastened two with a valetik, we get 90. Not enough? Get more out of the pouch.
    You can quickly insert the magazine ... and replace the tape when it runs out? I suspect it will take longer.
    But light machine guns are lighter and more convenient, and whoever moves faster has a better chance of survival.

    Our opponents ... well, the more bullets a machine gunner shoots, the more income those who produce them have. capitalism, however.

    In the conditions of urban combat, just light machine guns are just that. You just need more of them, well, good body kits. And a couple of hulks with a "karamultuk" will be too noticeable and will become a desirable target for a sniper (who has a longer range anyway).
  44. Sasha Koblov
    Sasha Koblov 24 January 2023 15: 21
    +4
    Settlements must be encircled, cutting off all supplies, and that is the solution to all problems. On a starvation diet, they will not sit there for a long time.
    An example is MARIUPOL!
  45. Sergey39
    Sergey39 24 January 2023 16: 17
    +4
    I will not go into the entire article, but in my opinion, the respected Skomorokhov, either showed inattention, is unlikely with his approach to the articles, or deliberately distorted the TTX facts?
    The weight of the Pecheneg 7,62 mm machine gun with a butt is 8,2 kg.
    The weight of the FN Minimi 7,62 mm machine gun with a stock is 8,17 kg.
    The weight of the FN Minimi 7,62 mm machine gun with a folding stock is 8,4 kg.
    And, here is the FN Minimi 5,56 mm machine gun standard model 6,85 kg.
    And why manipulate the performance characteristics of machine guns of different calibers?
    Sighting range Our 1500m, Belgian 600-800 m.
    Rate of fire Our 650, Belgian 680-800.
    So compare machine guns.
    1. Negro
      Negro 24 January 2023 16: 28
      -1
      Quote: Sergey39
      Sighting range Nash 1500m

      If it is written that a weapon at 7,62x54 has an "aiming range" of 1,5 kilometers, then this is some kind of peculiar aiming range. So to speak for the group goal.
      1. Sergey39
        Sergey39 24 January 2023 19: 06
        0
        The Belgian has 800 m, on a group goal.
        1. Negro
          Negro 24 January 2023 23: 59
          -3
          800 is overkill, but with 600 rounds of 5,56 you can aim at someone. With a 7,62x54 cartridge for 1500, you can aim at a forest or a village. Mortar, so to speak. This is a normal working distance for Utes, and not for Pecheneg.
  46. ata
    ata 24 January 2023 16: 47
    +3
    In my senior sergeant's opinion, there are, as it were, two questions in one question - a light machine gun and a heavy machine gun:

    for light machine guns:
    RPK-16 looks like nothing at all, especially if this “tambourine” for 95 rounds changes quickly, spare equipped tambourines can be placed on the body kit so that a fighter can quickly change them. All the same, four and a half kilograms is a very pleasant weight. But of course not instead of heavier machine guns. The quality issues of such a large concern as Kalashnikov, and even based on the real experience of modern military operations, could be finalized and resolved this issue very quickly - this is still not a new weapon to develop from scratch. Also, given that hand-to-hand combat is no longer relevant in modern warfare, it is possible to transfer an increasing number of submachine gunners to light machine guns and sniper weapons, thereby increasing firepower, accuracy and shooting range, without losing maneuverability.

    I also allow myself to translate the participant's comment bath, which for some reason he left in Chinese:
    "The war now shows that Russian soldiers need a lot of drones and portable radios, not new machine guns."

    About drones and communications I completely agree with him, although this was clear even before the war. But the new machine guns should not be neglected either.

    As for the heavier machine guns, we see that their weight has already reached the limits of what a fighter can actually carry, but we would like even more power, range and ammunition. But the fighter is not an ass, so what is the solution? In giving the fighter a donkey. In other words, for example, something better than a dog from Boston Dynamics. We install a machine gun on the donkey, we load ammunition on it, a computerized sight is on the machine gun, the shooter has a tablet connected to the machine gun with a cable, for example. Thus, the shooter can observe and fire himself while in cover at a safe distance from this donkey. He will also be able to give commands to the donkey over the cable with his voice, the artificial intelligence of the donkey must understand human speech. For example - change position, go under this bush, cease fire, look for infantry, look for armored vehicles, look for targets, report the situation. Along with this robot, the donkey is given a logistics robot that runs between the squad robots firing and brings them ammunition, which changes automatically.

    It is quite realistic and feasible.
    1. ycuce234-san
      ycuce234-san 25 January 2023 06: 28
      +1
      Quote from ata
      Also, let me translate the comment of the wannabe participant, which for some reason he left in Chinese:
      "The war now shows that Russian soldiers need a lot of drones and portable radios, not new machine guns."


      Electronics, communications simply cannot be done quickly - it takes many years to develop. In Asia, electronics has been developing since 1980, and precision machine tool and automotive industry since 1970, light industry since 1940-50.
      To make the simplest optics and a new sight, a new machine gun - it takes months.
  47. Mr. PeZhe
    Mr. PeZhe 24 January 2023 18: 26
    0
    1. There are not 95 rounds in a tambourine, but 96.
    2. The Russian analogue of minimi (5,45 with tape power) was created two years ago and is called RPL-20.
  48. YuryPVO
    YuryPVO 24 January 2023 19: 33
    0
    Hello. I'm certainly not an expert. I'm more in air defense. But, I think it’s impossible to switch machine guns to 5 mm. Afghanistan has shown that 7.62 is more effective in green, in urban combat. There is a tendency to increase calibers all over the world. As for the rest, I agree with the author of the article.
    1. Georgy Sviridov_2
      Georgy Sviridov_2 24 January 2023 22: 35
      0
      On the contrary, the AK-74 has not yet completely replaced the AKM, and 7,62 * 39 assault rifles are being developed and produced in parallel with 5,45 * 39 assault rifles, but there are no machine guns, the RPK-74 almost immediately noticed the RPK ...
      And the reason is simple, the submachine gunner carries less ammo, much less than the machine gunner, and the gain in mass for the machine gunner is not very noticeable, unlike the machine gunner ... And if you take 1000, or even 1,5-2 thousand rounds, then the gain in weight will be very serious.
      The second is persistence. From a machine gun, most often, fire comes from the hands, with a maximum of additional emphasis on the magazine, a person will hardly shoot from the hands further than 300 meters, even with optics. From here he doesn't care 350 meters or 450 meters straight shot. The machine gun, on the contrary, more often works from bipods and often "to suppress" and there it already plays a role. In addition, with a side wind for bullets of 5,45, it is necessary to take 2 times less correction for the wind, it is corny easier to hit from it.
    2. Negro
      Negro 25 January 2023 00: 01
      -3
      Quote: YuryPVO
      Afghanistan has shown that 7.62 is more effective in green, in urban combat. There is a tendency to increase calibers all over the world.

      Afghanistan is not greenery and not a city, but mountains. Moreover, the use of aviation is limited. Against this background, the Americans climbed into the growth of range and calibers.
  49. LastPS
    LastPS 24 January 2023 20: 11
    0
    What is worth taking and supplying the Pecheneg with a shortened barrel (450-500 mm), the telescopic butt and quick-release bipods in the Pecheneg-SP model already exist. Equip the machine gun with sights more complex than a mechanical sight - and, in fact, everything is ready!


    That's all, that's enough. Absolute unification and quickly, a set of preparations for urban conditions will cost a penny and they can be supplied with copies already available in the troops, closing the need for such weapons right now.
  50. Dost
    Dost 24 January 2023 20: 17
    -1
    Bullshit article. Pavel would not have run more than 500 meters with such a weight. At VO, the issue of a backpack with a sleeve was already raised, and the same machine gunners are not happy with this device due to its weight and its effect on the spine and joints. That's when exoskeletons go to the masses, then we'll talk about satchels and Wishlist