The Truth About Truth

173
The Truth About Truth
Photo from the December issue of the Pravda newspaper for 1941. O tanks “Matilda”, although they were never called, it was written well in the text of the newspaper - they are powerful, maneuverable, and reliable armor ... They began to write badly about Lend-Lease equipment after the war ...


The thoughts of the righteous are true
but the designs of the wicked are deceit.

Proverbs of Solomon 12:5

History and culture. Not so long ago, a whole selection of articles appeared on the pages of VO devoted to the Pravda newspaper during the Great Patriotic War and after it. We must pay tribute to the author, who took up such a voluminous and complex topic and dared, so to speak, to reveal it to our very sophisticated and spoiled public.



Judging by some comments about “shit and a fan”, many narrow-minded people perceived this material as another slander on the “holy USSR”, where all the streets were paved with non-depreciating rubles, but this is far from being the case.

The author, no doubt, wanted to point out, first of all, the mistakes of our propaganda, which were also reflected in the pages of this mouthpiece of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, and then the CPSU. But insufficient knowledge of the factual material led to the fact that the author fulfilled his task at the level of clichés and clichés - and with this, his work depreciated his order, and ... caused quite fair displeasure of VO readers.

Propaganda mistakes


How should it have been done? And very simple.

When you undertake to write about the Pravda newspaper during the war years, you go to the library or archive and read all its issues in 1 days. Or you sit at the computer - since today all its numbers are digitized, and do the same. Personally, I am more attracted to the first option, without turning over the yellowed pages, the aroma of the era is not felt. Well, as you flip through its materials, you should read it carefully.

So, what advantages and disadvantages of printed propaganda in the USSR can these yellowed pages tell us?

To begin with, if we carefully read them, we will see that the information in Pravda in the pre-war years was presented in the form of three streams or trends that were completely unrelated to each other.

The first block was aimed at exposing the "decaying West" and the growing labor movement. A strike here, a strike there, that is, the impression was created that the world revolution was literally on the threshold, which in fact was not.

The second stream, largely refuting the first, talked about the achievements of science and technology in the "decaying West." They opened an air-conditioned plant with shadowless lighting using luminous tubes, the 15 millionth Ford car was produced here - and to whom were they sold then, if all the workers there were starving?

A speed tank was created, which developed a speed of 119 km / h during tests. In New York, women choke in queues for fashionable nylon stockings - in a word, judging by the reports of Pravda, despite the decay, science and technology in the West have moved forward by leaps and bounds.

Finally, feuilletons. If I were a dictator at that time, I would have banned them in the bud. After all, what did they give? Truthful information about what our people saw there. And they saw a lot of cars, luminous "glass tubes", unemployed workers in raincoats and hats, cramped apartments of workers with a toilet and a bathroom, they also wrote about salaries, converting dollars into rubles ... That is, in feuilletons, the level of exploitation of workers appeared very clearly, so It is clear that many of us at that time would have agreed to live like this.

Pravda also wrote extremely ineptly about the war in Spain. Every day the progress of the Republicans at the front was reported. Here they repulsed the attack of the Francoists, there they hit a motorcade with machine gun fire, and 200 Franco soldiers surrendered to them altogether. And then - bang and a completely unexpected and incomprehensible message:

"Republicans left Santander".

Why's that? After all, they won all the time, didn't they?

And so it was almost all the time: victories in particulars and defeats in the end. That is ... our journalists did not know how to write in such a way that they could eat fish and ride bones ...

The war began, and this sad tradition was continued. German pilots immediately began to fly over to us and drop bombs into the river. Soldiers (albeit mostly killed in letters, but also prisoners!) reported in their revelations on the pages of Pravda that they did not want to fight and saw that our army was invincible.

And from home they were told (despite the Gestapo, as if it had ceased to exist) that they were starving and even eating whale meat!

“But here in Kyiv the market is bursting with food!”

- and almost a week after this invigorating message, she also reported:

"Our troops left Kyiv."

Prisoners ... do not think that Pravda did not write about them from the very beginning of the war. But as she wrote: the ordinary soldier Ensky, being wounded, lost consciousness and woke up in captivity. They took him on a boat, but then he came to his senses, turned the boat over, swam out himself and got to his own, and the Germans, of course, drowned!

And in a similar way, Pravda wrote about our prisoners throughout the war: he was wounded, fell from a tank, was taken prisoner, woke up in a dugout nailed to the wall, but did not say anything to the enemies and accepted a martyr's death. Ours, of course, freed the dugout, but it was too late, the hero had already died, and they immediately swore to avenge him.

There were practically no other options: “fell, lost consciousness, woke up - captivity, gathered his strength and escaped, or accepted a martyr’s death.” At the end of the war, they occasionally began to write about the liberation of young men and women driven into German captivity ... And that was all. Otherwise, this topic was strictly taboo.

Hitler's bullshit


However, here, too, the matter was not without incomprehensible stupidity, and if we assume that the newspaper was read and edited by I.V. missed it altogether.

And it happened that in December 1941 in Pravda an article “Hitler’s Nonsense” was published, where it was written that he was lying like a gray gelding, and not 3 million 200 thousand people were captured by us, as he boasts, but only 500 thousand.

Well, why did Pravda need to cite these figures, because our citizens had to read them, who knew that the soldiers of the Red Army did not surrender, that we would fight with little blood and on foreign land, that ... In a word, this figure alone was simply monstrous. And what - they were all wounded, lost consciousness, fell, and then woke up at once in captivity?

But it could have been written differently: “Look what ridiculous numbers this bastard Hitler gives! Who, then, is fighting on our front from the White Sea to the Black Sea, if so many people are in captivity? Of course, we have both prisoners and missing people, but compared to these numbers, they are negligible. And how much exactly we will calculate after our victory and we will reward everyone according to their merits, both heroes and traitors!

So I would personally write like this, and what can I say?

Only in 1942, Pravda began to give the names of our tanks and aircraft: KV, T-34, Yak-7 ... True, they wrote about the IL-2 for a long time as an "anti-tank aircraft." And they also hushed up all the defeats, if only it was possible to hide them, although as a result it became unclear why the order would then come out: “Not a step back!”

For example, Pravda did not say a word about the terrorist raid by the German aviation to Stalingrad. What? Would it be a very scary picture? Probably... Although our people were already accustomed to everything then. But then again, I would then immediately give the order to post leaflets throughout the country: a burning city and against its background a woman, surrounded by flames, hugs a baby girl. And the words: “Remember Stalingrad. We will not forget, we will not forgive, we will rebuild even more beautifully!”

Of course, there will be a smart guy right there who will say that it’s easy, they say, to argue from the heights of afterknowledge, but how then ... And then there was already an example of exactly the same blow to Coventry and exactly the same posters, about which people in our guide should have known: “Remember Coventry. We won't forget, we won't forgive." All that was required was to borrow someone else's experience and replace one name with another.

Blockade


And how did the Pravda newspaper write about besieged Leningrad?

During the most difficult period of the blockade, there was not a word of approval and support addressed to him. It was written that “everything is fine”, “artels are releasing suitcases”! What suitcases, when people ate all the cats and dogs, but at the same time they didn’t disdain something else.

Of course, it was not necessary to write about this, since the Soviet people were not capable of this, but still. Moreover, Pravda nevertheless wrote about the horrors of the blockade and the resilience of Leningraders ... In the summer of 1942, when it became clear in the Kremlin that the city would not be surrendered. Here, praises in honor of the city on the Neva poured out, and the film was released to the cinemas "Siege of Leningrad", but it took quite a long time to wait for this truth.

The "Pravdists" did not know how to write correctly even those materials to which Comrade Stalin clearly did not pay attention.

“The tanker Ivanov, while in the tank, was wounded by a shrapnel, but continued to smash the Nazis with a machine gun!”

What's wrong here? And here's what: "wounded by shrapnel while in a tank." It would be quite possible to do without this clarification, there is no need for it, because after all, at that time they knew that Soviet tanks did not break through with fragments. Knew or should have known, and last but not least.

Lend-Lease


True, from the point of view of PR and propaganda, there was one message of exceptional importance in Pravda. I asked the author a question about what kind of message this was, but, alas, I did not wait for an answer.

And this, by the way, is an extremely important “thing”: “The Soviet Government’s Report on Lend-Lease Supplies” dated June 11, 1944. And here, Comrade Stalin could not do without a resolution. After all, the most important secret of strategic importance was revealed to the whole people and our enemies: how much our allies - England, Canada and the USA - gave us.

In the most detailed way, the entire newspaper sheet signed how many tanks, aircraft, aluminum, rubber and everything else had been sent to us at the time of publication, and it was added how many thousands of tons of cargo were still on the way. There were 15 million pairs of shoes alone, so it’s quite possible to say that our soldiers came to Victory in American boots!

And ... after reading all this, our people understood: with such volumes of military assistance, victory in any way will be ours. And the top of Nazi Germany began to understand the same thing, where they also regularly read our Pravda and where they knew that these figures ... they are without deceit, because their own intelligence reported the same to them, but only the Russians took all the numbers here brought together.

Like a butt on the head - bam! And it is not at all surprising that on June 11, Pravda wrote about all this, and already on July 20, Operation Valkyrie began in Berlin, the purpose of which was to kill Hitler and overthrow Nazi power in Germany.

Roughest punctures


But ... the rudest punctures immediately began again.

After all, if earlier Pravda wrote about how the Germans were terribly starving, then after the entry of our troops into Germany, she immediately began to write that the Germans’ apartments were literally littered with ... provisions, that they had both Strasbourg pies and Hungarian salami , and French cognac.

Meanwhile, the citizens of the USSR used the received newspapers not only as “pipifax” and “goat's legs”. They also filed them, and from time to time read the old issues, and simply could not help but notice such a conspicuous discrepancy. That whale meat - that Strasbourg pates! True, here one can refer to the 90 + 1 rule, but it was unlikely that it was known to the Soviet elite, or even there, at the top, people with memory were not very good.

However, another option is also possible, that this was done on purpose. So that people from those who are smarter, again, compare, discuss such nonsense and ... revealed by our valiant NKVD, join the ranks of prisoners convicted under Article 58 for slanderous fabrications against the Soviet press.

Hack and predictor Aviator


Well, the conclusion will be this: in the short term, the Pravda newspaper as a whole coped, but at the same time did everything possible so that in the long term Soviet citizens would stop believing in our media in general! Whether this happened by chance or not, I can’t say, but that it happened, no doubt.

PS


By the way, since the beginning of the war, Pravda never wrote about the plight of the working people in capitalist countries! There, with their situation, everything immediately became good, and the working people, probably, got everything they wanted. They began to write about their hard life again later ...
173 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +13
    13 January 2023 05: 40
    but at the same time, she did everything possible so that in the long term, Soviet citizens would stop believing in our media in general!

    The latest article of course! Only "Soviet" should be changed to "Russian", but the author did not understand this, because rule 90 and 1 applies not only to readers.
    1. +28
      13 January 2023 05: 49
      I agree with you! By the way, who is the author?" The author!" He looks like Shpakovsky in an effort to kick the Union, somehow the "damned kamunyaks" annoyed him at one time - either they didn’t let him go abroad, or they didn’t let him steal ..,
      1. +17
        13 January 2023 05: 59
        On the contrary, the author, in his article about "pravda", subtly hints at the short-sightedness and stupidity of modern Russian propaganda, which is practically following the same path as at that time. wink hi
        1. +10
          13 January 2023 06: 44
          Quote: Monster_Fat
          On the contrary, the author, in his article about "pravda", subtly hints at the short-sightedness and stupidity of modern Russian propaganda, which is practically following the same path as at that time.

          I don’t know, I don’t know, because the current propagandists were taught by teachers like the author ... And the Western media studied from textbooks that the author probably studied, or even used.
        2. Eug
          +1
          21 January 2023 18: 08
          That's right, in reports about NWO especially.
      2. -5
        13 January 2023 06: 47
        But is the article a lie and a lie? Why become an ostrich? Take the newspaper yourself, read it, and you will not find such pearls in it!
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. -2
          13 January 2023 08: 20
          Minus comments, as a rule, those who themselves don’t know a damn thing, but firmly believe in the "Agitator's Notebook". :)) While working in the archive, I myself came across a leaflet from 1941 where there was a line "... the enemy was advancing cowardly ..." We had very talented military journalists! Yes, and Soviet ... I always bowed to Genrikh Borovik, Leonid Zorin, Bovin and others ... But the general newspaper propaganda was base. My father never subscribed to either Pravda or Komsomolskaya Pravda, preferring only Izvestia.
          1. +8
            13 January 2023 09: 46
            "... the enemy was cowardly advancing..."


            It is a masterpiece! wassat )))
            Good morning, colleagues!
            Good morning, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
            I go to many telegrams. And, do you know what the conclusion was? There are a lot of people who don't want the truth. They are afraid of the truth, perceiving it as a hostile lie, they are ready to be deceived! They want to be. That's what propaganda is about. She crushes them, bringing them to a state of petrification. And such "petrified" by their passionate conviction in something, they themselves become sources of unscrupulous propaganda, spreading its waves around them...
            But I can't blame the "petrified". A person is extremely rarely able to change his life position. I stood on one and - you won’t push it! Such is human nature. I guess it's self-preservation instinct. I deliberately do not take into account prudent self-interest, when you are either a stone or plasticine - due to changing circumstances.
            1. -2
              13 January 2023 11: 27
              Quote: depressant
              And such "petrified" by their passionate conviction in something, they themselves become sources of unscrupulous propaganda, spreading its waves around them...

              Bravo, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! I have the same thing, only in other words it is written in a textbook for universities - "Public Opinion Management Technologies".
              1. +7
                13 January 2023 23: 10
                caliber Are you the kind of caliber that fits any hole? How do you like it there, in the holes?
            2. +1
              13 January 2023 12: 34
              "... the enemy was cowardly advancing..."
              It is a masterpiece! wassat)))


              Almost according to Lermontov:
              "The battle did not last long:
              Timid Georgians fled!" (c)

              The Georgians were offended and in their edition of the poem they changed it to this:
              "Brave Georgians fled!" laughing

              Good afternoon, Luda! love
              1. +7
                13 January 2023 15: 27
                "Brave Georgians fled!"

                Hello Kostya! )))
                I went through three points below that characterize the propaganda of bygone times - those represented by Vyacheslav Olegovich.
                I would add a fourth - "Difficulties of modern propaganda."
                They are that it is no longer possible to lie or keep silent about something, because there are too many available sources of information. Therefore, there will always be someone authoritative and knowledgeable, and even having the status of a LOM (leader of public opinion), who will say: "This is a lie!"
                For example, today there is a storm on telegrams. Konashenkov said that Soledar was taken by paratroopers, and not a word about the fact that "musicians" took the city. There, people are tearing and mosquitoing about this. But Konashenkov doesn't care! For his TV report will be listened to by the army authorities, who do not read telegrams, and after Konashenkov’s report, that authorities will put on airs, they say, what are we, the army ...
                So it turns out that the entire population is now divided into various target audiences, often with directly opposite interests, and during the Second World War there was only one target audience - the entire population of the USSR.
                1. +4
                  13 January 2023 15: 45
                  Konashenkov is a "talking head", he cannot utter a single word without a pointer from above. Yes, and so everything is clear, as it is, the army is losing ground, and PMCs (read mercenaries) are recapturing them, somehow it doesn’t work out very well. And the fact that the whole world knows about what and how is happening there has not yet reached the Kremlin blockheads, they themselves are digging a hole from which they can no longer get out. Well, who will believe the authorities, which lies at every step, and lies so idiotically that this lie is visible to anyone with the naked eye.
                  1. +7
                    13 January 2023 18: 32
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    Konashenkov is a "talking head", he cannot utter a single word without a pointer from above. Yes, and so everything is clear, as it is, the army is losing ground, and PMCs (read mercenaries) are recapturing them, somehow it doesn’t work out very well. And the fact that the whole world knows about what and how is happening there has not yet reached the Kremlin blockheads, they themselves are digging a hole from which they can no longer get out. Well, who will believe the authorities, which lies at every step, and lies so idiotically that this lie is visible to anyone with the naked eye.

                    Well, probably you have a positive example of this is the Ukrainian media, so what? I'm not from Russia and it's all the same to me by and large. However, I don’t read or watch the Ukrainian media, and I don’t need it - the Moldovan authorities (respectively, the media) broadcast 1 to 1 everything that they say, write and show there. And if they don't dance, they close it. This is such nonsense that the ears wither. My personal feeling: the ratio of truth and lies (or understatement) in Ukraine is 1-2 to 10, in Russia 5-7 to 10. There is certainly a lot to strive for. However, I watch and read what else they write in Europe (the USA is not an indicator, let's say the people there, 90% eat everything that is served). So there the ratio is exactly the same as in Ukraine.
                    1. -1
                      13 January 2023 22: 42
                      Well, probably you have a positive example of this is the Ukrainian media, so what?

                      Let's go without conjectures and inventions. I don't give a damn about the Ukrainian media, and all the rest too, I'm interested in my country and I don't like it when officials hang noodles on the ears of their fellow citizens. I'm not going to give you advice, but it's better to take care of the affairs of your country (I don't know where you are from), but I don't think that everything is in order there.
                      However, your problems do not interest me, we have our own behind our backs. hi
            3. +7
              16 January 2023 06: 13
              Bravo, Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
              I join with deep respect!
        3. +7
          13 January 2023 09: 43
          Not a lie. But like an understatement. "Pravda" is official of officialdom. No one (including their own employees) perceived it as a news newspaper. So, a tribune for announcing the official position on all issues (well, as Rossiyskaya Gazeta is now)
          In addition to Pravda, there were other newspapers. Quite competing with each other and providing interesting material. In which talented journalists and writers worked. For example, during the Second World War, these were Izvestia and Krasnaya Zvezda
          1. 0
            13 January 2023 11: 29
            Quote: El Barto
            In which talented journalists and writers worked. For example, during the Second World War, these were Izvestia and Krasnaya Zvezda

            Have you read them? All numbers for 1418 days of war? I didn't read everything. I read it selectively, after Pravda. And you know what the conclusion is: "radish horseradish is not sweeter."
            1. +4
              13 January 2023 14: 04
              Photojournalist from
              newspaper "Front illustration". Filmed the fighting of the Soviet Army on different fronts. His best works bear the truth of the combat situation. The picture "Death of a Soldier" became one of the classic works of front-line photo reporting.

              There was Anatoly Garanin, a friend of Mehlis, as soon as Mehlis was removed after the Crimean catastrophe, Garanin was also removed from the front.

              And this is his last series of photographs in the Crimea




              In the two lower photos, his co-authors and an officer with an explosive machine, and, well, the photographer himself, protected from stones during explosions by an overcoat and a hat, and fighters run to the explosions in tunics.


              13 of June.

              Photographers talk about the behavior of photojournalist Garanin.
              He came to the 6th Army - to go to the head of the agitation department, Itkin:

              - I arrived on behalf of Comrade Mehlis. I need a few kilos for filming. (i.e. for mock explosions).

              And as soon as the real battle began, I go from there.

              However, other photographers shoot like this. Zelma filmed all tank scenes near Voronezh, including the surrender of the Germans and the bombing of a tank from an aircraft. And Izvestia - nothing, they print it Zelma (Rogue).

              The front-line soldiers quickly realized the staging of the pictures and the editors stopped printing these pictures. And Garanin was not even given the medal "For the Victory over Germany" and was not recognized as a participant in the war.
              Well, Zelma took all his Stalingrad pictures in February 43rd with a trophy team, which is also not very good when a Red Army soldier is armed with a Mauser rifle.
              1. +6
                13 January 2023 15: 38
                Yes. Great discovery about staged shots.
                First, no one ever hid it. Everyone knew perfectly well that the pictures were staged.
                Secondly, the equipment of that time did not allow taking normal pictures "live", they did not have smartphones with a good camera, it was necessary to observe all sorts of shutter speeds, exposures, etc. And senseless, illegible pictures, like the one that the heroes of the film “Two Comrades Were Serving” took, are not needed by anyone.
                Thirdly, it was a common approach at that time (and all over the world) photojournalists considered themselves to be something like a photo artist and approached the shooting accordingly.
                And finally, none of the heroes of the pictures were offended by the staging. On the contrary, they were delighted to see themselves in the newspaper. Many even kept these issues of newspapers and were proud of it.
                1. -2
                  13 January 2023 17: 47
                  To listen to you, so all the front-line photo correspondents around the world were solid falsifiers, thank God it was not so, and the photographic equipment quite allowed itself to take decent pictures, everything depended on the courage and professionalism of the one who took these pictures.
                  It’s good that you won’t be able to screw up such cameramen as Carmen, there the newsreel itself speaks for itself.
                  If anything, then a minus from me. negative
                  1. +4
                    13 January 2023 18: 58
                    Staged shots were all over the world. You will not find actually non-staged random shots of reporters for the 1940s in any Internet archive.
                    And it's not fake. In your opinion, gluing a panorama with tanks on the Buyniche field is a falsification?
                    Signatures under photos in newspapers are another matter
                    1. -3
                      13 January 2023 19: 39
                      In your opinion, gluing a panorama with tanks on the Buyniche field is a falsification?

                      But!
                      Do not turn it upside down, it was you who reproached the photojournalists for staged shots, that is, for falsification, and now blame me. After that, I have nothing to talk about with you.
                      And I'll just disdain to put a minus.
                      1. +1
                        13 January 2023 22: 08
                        Here is what one newspaperman known to you wrote: “... Troshkin began to shoot soldiers in the forest reading newspapers that we brought from the editorial office. For the first time I was surprised to see how a photojournalist works. Until now, I naively imagined that a photojournalist was simply catches different moments of life and shoots. But Troshkin transplanted fighters ten times this way and that, changed helmets from one to another and forced them to pick up rifles. In general, he tormented them for half an hour. I was struck by the amazing love of people to shoot, and such their patience is amazing. Then I'm not used to it yet. "

                        Everyone worked like that back then. This is not fake.
                        How can we not falsify and staged a photo of the hoisting of the flag on Iwo Jima
                      2. 0
                        13 January 2023 22: 48
                        Everyone worked like that back then.


                        Aaaaaaaaaaaa .... So you know everything for everyone ... Full out. laughing
                      3. +2
                        14 January 2023 01: 43
                        Hm. Did the Red Army soldiers read the newspaper? Read.
                        Did the Marines put up a flag? They did.
                        Where is the falsification?
                        In your opinion, how is the re-filmed speech of Stalin at the parade on 07.11.41/XNUMX/XNUMX and the film "Counteroffensive near Moscow" also a falsification?
                        There is no falsification in this.
                2. +3
                  18 January 2023 21: 38
                  Quote: El Barto
                  Yes. Great discovery about staged shots.
                  First, no one ever hid this

                  Is that why more than a thousand photojournalists died in the war?
        4. +5
          13 January 2023 13: 27
          Soviet tanks do not break through fragments

          Do you remember how the book ended (not the movie!) "In the war, as in the war)"?
          1. +5
            13 January 2023 13: 45
            Yes, I remember that a fragment tore Maleshkin's throat, but if my memory serves me right, he was outside and sat on the armor. To be honest, I doubt that the fragment was capable of penetrating the armor of the tank, well, if only the projectile was of a very large caliber, and the tank was light, but this is also a matter of chance.
            Both the film and the book are certainly good, and fall out of the usual cycle of "cinema-and-Germans". smile
            1. +6
              13 January 2023 13: 49
              Both the book and the movie are real.

              Maleshkin's crew sat in the car and had dinner. The mine exploded under the cannon
              self-propelled guns. A fragment flew into the ajar driver's hatch, burned
              Shcherbak's ear and cut Maleshkin's throat like a razor. Sanya blinked frequently
              and dropped his head on his chest.
              1. +4
                13 January 2023 16: 48
                . A fragment flew into the ajar driver's hatch,


                Those. passed through empty space and did not penetrate armor.
                I was more impressed with the finale of the picture, yet this kid deserved the right to live to see the Victory. Yes, Lord, all of them, the fallen and the wounded, have earned this right. soldier
            2. +7
              13 January 2023 14: 49
              Hello, Uncle Kostya.
              Quote: Sea Cat
              I doubt that the fragment was able to penetrate the armor of the tank

              Shrapnel wounds among tankers were not uncommon. A shell that did not penetrate the armor could break off pieces of it from the back, which, in turn, could cut the hands or faces of the crew members. I have read about this many times. Sometimes these pieces of armor could be quite large.
              1. +3
                13 January 2023 15: 51
                Misha, hello! smile
                You noted everything correctly, but I meant specifically the fragment, and not the consequences of getting the blank into the armor. And the open parts of the body crumbled even from ricochets, there were no tankers with "smooth faces".
                1. +3
                  13 January 2023 19: 12
                  Come on, people have already spoken about this fragment besides me.
                  I remember that the boys and I were freaking out over me when my hand was shredded with a piece of broken glass - like, "shrapnel wound", Misha now walks "with a wound" ... smile
    2. -9
      13 January 2023 06: 52
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      concerns

      Vladimir! Look at the faces of this student.
      \Then they are children. Today directors, generals and ... in a word, in the photo our yesterday, and today are around us. And what have they said in the past? "Heavy Legacy" - huh? "Remnants ...", "Birthmarks of capitalism"? Even today we still encounter remnants of "Soviet socialism."
      1. +8
        13 January 2023 07: 27
        Quote: kalibr
        Even today we still encounter remnants of "Soviet socialism."

        This is where you are! Do not count, do not compare ... Or ignore and misrepresent. The current leaders for the most part have received higher education since the 90s, when people like you gave free rein to teach, so that!
        1. -3
          13 January 2023 07: 38
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          This is where you are! Do not count, do not compare ...

          So count, when our president, our ministers, and Oleg Salyukov studied, and in general my classmate from parallel "B". No way I could not teach these people with all my desire.
          1. +2
            13 January 2023 08: 23
            Quote: kalibr
            So count when our president, our ministers, and Oleg Salyukov studied
            That is, you are in all seriousness saying that the President and the castle of the NWO are responsible for our propaganda and mass media, even Peskov was not remembered? This is some kind of shame Vyacheslav, this is an indicator of the level. But you can count.
            As for ministers, "The average age of ministers in Russia was 53,6 years,"
            Maksut Igorevich Shadayev
            Minister of Digital Development, Communications and Mass Media of the Russian Federation
            Born in 1979 in Moscow.
            In 2004 he graduated from the Moscow State Social University."

            or
            "Kirill Kleymenov
            Deputy General Director of Channel One, Director of Information Programs Directorate.
            Born in Moscow in 1972. In 1994 he graduated from the Romano-Germanic Department of the Faculty of Philology of Moscow State University.
            "

            Quote: kalibr
            No way I could not teach these people with all my desire.
            Maybe that's why the failure of propaganda, and not in Russia as a whole, although why "may".
            1. -3
              13 January 2023 08: 29
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              but seriously you say

              A guarantor for that and a guarantor to answer for everything!
              1. +3
                13 January 2023 08: 37
                Quote: kalibr
                A guarantor for that and a guarantor to answer for everything!

                What's this? This is written by a person claiming to be a historian?!
                1. -5
                  13 January 2023 11: 32
                  Quote: Vladimir_2U
                  What is that?

                  This is that a person who is the guarantor of law and order in the country is responsible for both law and order in it. And who told you that I claim to be a historian. I have as many as three documents confirming it. And how much do you have?
                  1. +3
                    13 January 2023 15: 23
                    Quote: kalibr
                    This is that a person who is the guarantor of law and order in the country is responsible for both law and order in it.

                    So you insist that the President is directly responsible for the media and propaganda. laughing

                    Quote: kalibr
                    I have as many as three documents confirming it.
                    As it turns out, this is absolutely no insurance against unscrupulous manipulation of the source materials by the historian and, accordingly, the low quality of research / publication.

                    Quote: kalibr
                    And how much do you have?
                    So I don't claim to be a historian. And you can be a researcher without a diploma ...
                    1. -4
                      13 January 2023 19: 59
                      Quote: Vladimir_2U
                      correspondingly low quality research/publication.

                      And who is the judge? A person without a degree? Here you get a Ph.D. then I may (may) even condescend to listen to you with a modicum of attention. In the meantime, you still have to study, study and study, as the great Lenin bequeathed. To correctly understand what is written and understand what you do not understand.
                      1. +2
                        14 January 2023 09: 34
                        Quote: kalibr
                        And who is the judge? A person without a degree?

                        It's funny to read this from a "teacher" with a diploma, who assures that a person as a person is formed by the age of 6 ...

                        Quote: kalibr
                        To correctly understand what is written and understand what you do not understand.
                        You don't have to be K.I. n., in order to understand the blatant dishonesty as a historian, or complete incompetence as a historian, using this statement as an example:
                        And here's what: "wounded by shrapnel while in a tank." It would be quite possible to do without this clarification, it is useless, because after all, at that time they knew that Soviet tanks did not break through with fragments

                        The dishonesty is that the number and date of publication of the newspaper are not indicated, as well as for all examples, which means that we can safely say that all phrases are taken out of context and distorted.
                        Also in the words "yet they knew at that time" - but this can be attributed to incompetence or stupidity, because very many, even without taking into account the military, it was known that light tanks could not hold heavy fragments, not to mention secondary ones from unpierced armor.
                        Well, you can get diplomas according to the quota, with the support of friends, being a nerd without being able to apply the memorized knowledge. Yes, and as I already wrote, they are not a guarantee against dishonesty and deceit.
                    2. -3
                      13 January 2023 20: 00
                      Quote: Vladimir_2U
                      And you can be a researcher without a diploma ...

                      So the village grandmother knows how to tear her teeth, but you won’t go to her.
              2. +3
                13 January 2023 08: 46
                to answer for everything!
                Something is not noticeable, more and more in style: the kid said - the kid did it, did not do it - he said it again.
                1. -5
                  13 January 2023 11: 33
                  Quote: 3x3zsave
                  to answer for everything!
                  Something is not noticeable, more and more in style: the kid said - the kid did it, did not do it - he said it again.

                  Anton, I wrote about how it should be. How it should not be, we know very well from our own experience.
              3. +2
                13 January 2023 23: 28
                caliber. You began to bend. He also guarantees a condom, and this happens.
            2. -9
              13 January 2023 08: 33
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              Born in 1979 in Moscow.

              And you are not only stubborn, but also ignorant. In 1991 he was 12 years old. And it is known - and in all textbooks of pedagogy it is written that the child as a person is formed by the age of 5. And by 12, this is already ... a spiritually and ideologically formed person. However, you do not have a higher pedagogical education ... therefore, excuse me. Although even our ancestors knew this and said, "Teach the child while he lies across the bench, but it's too late along!" Know this for the future.
              1. +6
                13 January 2023 10: 08
                Quote: kalibr

                And you are not only stubborn, but also ignorant. In 1991 he was 12 years old. And it is known - and in all textbooks of pedagogy it is written that the child as a person is formed by the age of 5. And by 12, this is already ... a spiritually and ideologically formed person.
                And again ignoring uncomfortable facts. After all, deliberate ignoring is not banal ignorance, is it, Vyacheslav? After all, to consider that a person as a person has been formed by the age of 6 is not even ignorance, it is obscurantism.
                It is enough to type in the search "the formation of the student's personality", not even a schoolchild, not a teenager, but a STUDENT, in order to receive a lot of links.
                Well, here's your choice of fork, fork if you want - caveman ignorance or outright deceit. Because ignoring uncomfortable facts in a dispute, in the hope that the opponent is ignorant, is a lie.

                Quote: kalibr
                However, you do not have a higher pedagogical education ... therefore, excuse me. Although even our ancestors knew this and said, "Teach the child while he lies across the bench, but it's too late along!" Know this for the future.

                Well, the manner of boasting of education and teaching being ignorant or a liar is not a sign of a well-formed personality, whether under socialism or capitalism ...
                1. -5
                  13 January 2023 11: 35
                  Once again - do not give any links, but open the textbook of school pedagogy for universities and read. And often remember what our ancestors said about the shop ...
                  1. +3
                    13 January 2023 14: 43
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Again, please don't post any links.

                    Ahh, that's not it, that's different
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Why pose as an ostrich?

                    I didn’t read it, so I don’t have it, and I don’t need links, because I won’t read it ... Deftly, we found the third way out of the fork.
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Well, here's your choice of fork, fork if you want - caveman ignorance or outright deceit. Because ignoring uncomfortable facts in a dispute, in the hope that the opponent is ignorant, is a lie.
              2. +3
                13 January 2023 12: 03
                as for ministers, "The average age of ministers in Russia was 53,6 years",
                + + +
                IN. Well, this is the very age when there is also a member and there is money.
                (Well, I'm like that, a little mischief)
                ,,
                1. +2
                  13 January 2023 19: 09
                  In the army interpretation, this is what they said about the captains. The lieutenants have no money. And the majors are getting older.

                  However, now there may be a shift.
                2. -3
                  13 January 2023 19: 53
                  Quote: Grim Reaper
                  The average age of ministers in Russia was 53,6 years

                  That is, they are all children of the Soviet system! Just like the photo!!!
              3. +5
                13 January 2023 15: 02
                Quote: kalibr
                And it is known - and in all textbooks of pedagogy it is written that the child as a person is formed by the age of 5.
                Personality is formed throughout life. Not only the person himself, his parents, teachers, social environment, profession, but also possible sharp turns, circumstances of his life path take part in this process. About "it is known - and it is written in all textbooks of pedagogy" - this is a method of suggestion, a tool for influencing loxa, which faces a dilemma: to recognize oneself as such, or to declare that he knows it.
                1. -6
                  13 January 2023 15: 15
                  Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin
                  this is a method of suggestion, an instrument of influence on the loxa, which is faced with a dilemma: to recognize oneself as such, or to declare that he knows it.

                  And what? This is a good reception, especially since it really says that a person becomes a person by the age of 5, and at 12 - 100%. Then only polishing comes and a set of professional knowledge, but again they fall on what was perceived in the kindergarten, Octobrists, pioneers, Komsomol members ...
                  1. +3
                    13 January 2023 22: 47
                    Quote: kalibr
                    it really says that a person becomes a person by the age of 5, and at 12 - 100%.
                    Sir, give me a link to 1 such textbook, I will demand its ban in the form of a single picket on the educated forum. And the author - on trial! In our country, the murder of a pregnant woman goes like a double one, especially grave because a second person already lives in it. They argue about the timing when the fetus reaches the blastula stage to the human stage, and you have some strange textbooks. Maybe translations? There, by chance, it is not written at what age a person ceases to be a person?
                    1. +1
                      13 January 2023 23: 26
                      Quote: kalibr
                      and at 12 - 100%
                      Here the confusion is arranged by the substitution of the concept of the biological species of a person by the biological concept of a sexually mature person. Although, after 12 years, the biological processes of development continue. Emotional maturity usually comes much later. Personal, incl. civil, professional maturity may not happen at all: as lucky as anyone. But this is another story of human development from the formed fetus to death.
            3. +1
              15 January 2023 18: 05
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              So count when our president, our ministers, and Oleg Salyukov studied
              That is, you are in all seriousness saying that the President and the castle of the NWO are responsible for our propaganda and mass media, even Peskov was not remembered?

              I do PLC and HMI programming. The colleague had access to information about the mathematical processing (though not first-hand) of a special sociological survey conducted on the orders of Putin on the attitude of Russians to the ideas of communism. Putin then wanted to organize a complete ban on communist parties and communist societies and wanted to know what kind of resistance the state would face in this case. The acquaintance assured that the opinion poll and its processing were carried out competently in compliance with all the laws of sociology, psychology, statistics, and mathematics. It turned out that 20 years of anti-communist propaganda could not change the attitude of the people to the basic ideas of communism. The number of supporters of the communist path of development is large and does not differ among different groups of the population either by age, or by social status, or by nationality, or by material status. That is, there are no less supporters of communism among young FSB officers than among old alcoholics. Therefore, the possibilities of propaganda are limited. It succeeds if it meets the mentality of the people and their aspirations. Goebbels at heart was an opponent of Nazism. Hitler simply bought him with a promise not to interfere with his propaganda and give him material wealth and power over young actresses. Goebbels used this chance to the best of his ability, adjusting agitation both to the mentality of the German intellectual and to the mentality of the shopkeeper-pogromist. Putin's propaganda is pretty boring. Both Simonyan and Solovyov look into the boss's mouth and do not try to conduct an information policy on their own, focusing on their vision of the situation. In my opinion, the resources of Strelkov, Kadyrov or military blogs are read and watched 5 times more than Russian television programs and Internet officialdom like RT Simonyan, speeches by Solovyov, Putin or Peskov.
        2. -6
          13 January 2023 07: 47
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          higher education

          Education has nothing to do with it. All dirty tricks come from the family!
          1. -4
            13 January 2023 10: 25
            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            higher education

            Education has nothing to do with it. All dirty tricks come from the family!


            IN. Hello.
            I don't understand why you and him enter into a discussion. A person has been noted for over three years with more than 10000 comments. Moreover, in a variety of topics. From loaf to kghm .... He loves technical topics very much. Weapon themes. Political does not disdain. Yes, in general, all where activity is noticeable. But! Always wants to be the most knowledgeable. You know me a little, because I do not publish anything and rarely, because there are reasons, I write. But if I write, then only where I understand and I can correct the mistaken one. I know you very well
            I enjoy reading. But, life is not a buzz, as they say, I don’t even know who.
            IN. I would like to ask you, as a person 20 years older than me and having experience, why Vladimir so wants to be the first. From a loaf to the Milky Way. ?
            From SW. Alex.
            ps. I apologize for the grammatical and stylistic errors. I'm from a smartphone and for the third time I'm trying to type at least a little correctly. :)
            1. 0
              13 January 2023 10: 40
              Quote: Grim Reaper
              I would like to ask you, as a person 20 years older than me and having experience, why Vladimir so wants to be the first. From a loaf to the Milky Way. ?

              Why are you embarrassed to ask me?

              Quote: Grim Reaper
              He loves technical topics. Weapon themes. Political does not disdain. Yes, in general, all where activity is noticeable.
              Pfft, Shpakovsky's articles are being actively discussed, but I rarely go there. Strange, don't you think? Although Vyacheslav does not disdain politics, because this article is from politics.

              Quote: Grim Reaper
              Always wants to be the most knowledgeable.
              I would like to be the smartest, but alas. But it seems that in your opinion it is bad to strive for knowledge?
              By the way, look at my article, maybe you will bring something interesting.

              Oh yes, I don’t force anyone to enter into a discussion with me.
              1. 0
                13 January 2023 11: 24
                By the way, look at my article, maybe you will bring something interesting.
                + + + + +
                I'll take a look. Now.
                1. 0
                  13 January 2023 11: 43
                  What wilderness of Africa are you from? It's the 21st century in the yard - bulldozers, excavators, "bobcats" of some kind - not exotic, to put it mildly
                  + + + + +
                  Why then containers? If 90 percent of the work will be done by an excavator? It remains to strengthen the top, plant a gooseberry, and put a potbelly stove. Of course, your option is not bad for a long sitting, at least for a month or two. And for a week, IMHO, extra gestures.
                  1. +3
                    13 January 2023 12: 27
                    The other day, a comrade from Samara sent a list of what volunteers are collecting for the mobilized. So the list contains cuttings for shovels. Against this background, Vladimir's statements about heavy construction equipment in the frontline already, in turn, look like "African wilderness."
                    1. -2
                      13 January 2023 14: 56
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      Against this background, Vladimir's statements about heavy construction equipment in the front line already, in turn, look like "African wilderness."

                      Did you read the article? Not to mention the comments...
                      1. 0
                        13 January 2023 15: 17
                        I read the article and some comments. I wanted to insert a screenshot of the mentioned list, just under your comment about excavator bulldozers, but it was scrap to remove the emotional component from my comrade.
                    2. +3
                      13 January 2023 19: 11
                      My graduate student's husband is digging trenches with an excavator. However, it is clear that it is far from the first line.
                      1. +3
                        13 January 2023 19: 22
                        However, it is clear that it is far from the first line.
                        Exactly. Serezha, you understand, by virtue of my profession I clearly understand all the disadvantages of construction equipment in the combat zone.
                      2. +1
                        13 January 2023 20: 03
                        Of course. What you know in detail - you see in all the details, and possible vulnerabilities.
                  2. +1
                    13 January 2023 14: 55
                    Quote: Grim Reaper
                    Why then containers? If 90 percent of the work will be done by an excavator?

                    And what prevented you from leaving a comment directly under the article? Innate politeness?
                    However, if you read the article normally, you would see that a truck, a truck crane and bags of soil are needed at a minimum, and after reading the comments you would find this
                    Firstly, the container can not be buried, but covered with bags, covered with earth, and secondly, for the dugout, it is necessary to build ceilings that will not only withstand shelling, but at least not collapse under their own weight, waterproof them, strengthen walls, equip the floor. Can you imagine labor costs? Looks like no.

                    There's a lot of things... But not interesting, so uninteresting.
              2. 0
                13 January 2023 11: 35
                Yes, I read. In my humble opinion, this is unrealistic. Here is an instruction on how to make a small house on the site, if there is no time / desire / money, it’s very good, but it’s unrealistic for the army. It's easier to dig a dugout.
                1. 0
                  13 January 2023 19: 50
                  Quote: Grim Reaper
                  It's easier to dig a dugout.

                  By the way, there are projects of country houses in the ground. Very cool! recessed patio and a staircase there. And there is a wall-to-wall mirror wall and rooms behind it. Flowers grow on the roof, and the courtyard is closed with roller shutters!
              3. +1
                13 January 2023 15: 16
                By the way, I read your material - congratulations. Very interesting. And the style is good. So keep writing!
            2. +2
              13 January 2023 10: 45
              Hello Alex!
              I think the number of comments is an indicator of the level of "sensory hunger", in other words, the lack of communication. I myself have more than 20 thousand in 6,5 years.)))
              1. +1
                13 January 2023 11: 19
                Hello.
                But yours is read in most cases with interest.
                ;)
                1. 0
                  13 January 2023 15: 10
                  Quote: Grim Reaper
                  In most cases

                  Oil to the heart!
            3. 0
              13 January 2023 11: 38
              Dear Alexey! I'm answering because I'm... bored. Lack of communication. And yet there is a living soul. And again, training. In boxing, we train our fists with the number of punches, and here we have a verbal duel. And then ... I will tell you a "secret", the more comments, the higher the investment attractiveness of the site! So let him earn his marshal's shoulder straps ...
              1. +3
                13 January 2023 15: 00
                Quote: kalibr
                And then ... I will tell you a "secret", the more comments, the higher the investment attractiveness of the site! So let him earn his marshal's shoulder straps ...

                ))) You didn’t understand, I’m investing in the site ...
                1. 0
                  13 January 2023 15: 09
                  Quote: Vladimir_2U
                  You didn’t understand, I’m investing in the site ...

                  It is the same...
            4. -1
              13 January 2023 11: 40
              Quote: Grim Reaper
              why Vladimir so wants to be the first.

              Above Depressant - Lyudmila Yakovlevna, answered very well!
              1. 0
                13 January 2023 15: 58
                Lyudmila Yakovlevna answered very well!


                Vyacheslav Olegovich ... wassat !!
                Well, why are you setting me up like that! I liked Vladimir's idea with containers.
                The front line is full of earth-moving machines, with the help of which they create very deep anti-tank trenches.
                The performance of these machines is impressive.
                They are quite suitable for quickly digging in a container. At the same time, Ukraine did not return to Russia not only a lot of wagons, both freight and passenger, but also a lot of containers, they are probably at every station. Protective structures for the mobilized need to be created! I would continue, but the topic is not the same)))
                1. 0
                  13 January 2023 19: 47
                  Quote: depressant
                  I liked Vladimir's idea with containers.

                  Me too, and I wrote to him about it!
          2. +4
            13 January 2023 23: 47
            It is noticeable. Even Soviet education could not make a man out of Shpakovsky. As the weather vane was, it remained ....
      2. +5
        13 January 2023 10: 10
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, here is a photo of the shkolota that you put, take a closer look. Well, pure robbers. But the robbers are happy.
        Probably screaming HOLIDAYS!!!

        But you made one mistake. About the fragments of a wounded tanker.
        From a projectile hitting the tank's armor, the inner side of the armor can also give fragments.
        It is clear that it was impossible to write everything.
        And now not everyone writes.
        And after this "war" the media will condemn.
        But there is much more information in our time. Therefore, there is no end to future historians of work.
        Good day everyone.
        1. -2
          13 January 2023 11: 41
          Quote: Blacksmith 55
          From a projectile hitting the tank's armor, the inner side of the armor can also give fragments.

          Yes, I know about it. Wrote 5 books about tanks. It's just that "Soviet tanks don't pierce fragments." That's the whole point of propaganda. Very simple!
  2. 0
    13 January 2023 06: 16
    I worked at ZiL in 1978-81 at the GLTsKCH (foundry). I see a grandfather under 80 years old sticking an ad near the time sheet. I’m interested in the hard workers who they say are very elderly. And this is a veteran of the workshop, before the war he was with a delegation from ZiS in the USA to learn the business in a real way. Upon arrival, under a glass of tea, people were interested in how Americans live workers? In, they live, thumb! 8 years of camps they soldered him for such propaganda.
    1. +2
      13 January 2023 09: 14
      Yes, you are a storyteller, my friend, during these years there were already anecdotes about Brezhnev, and about the USSR, and about members of the Politburo. My grandfather went to Finland on a tour and said the same thing. If half of the union was imprisoned for this, they would have to be sent to camps. Yes, and there were no camps then, dissidents were deprived of citizenship and expelled from the Union.
      1. +4
        13 January 2023 11: 39
        Quote from: chimik70
        Yes, you are a storyteller, my friend, during these years there were already anecdotes about Brezhnev, and about the USSR, and about members of the Politburo.

        We read carefully:
        Quote: andrewkor
        before the war I was with a delegation from ZiS in the USA to learn the business in a real way.On arrival under a glass of tea, the people were interested in how the American workers live? In, they live, thumb! 8 years of camps they soldered to him for such propaganda.

        That is, grandfather bowed to the west before the war. No wonder that caring Soviet citizens fulfilled their civic duty - civil society in the USSR of those times reached unprecedented heights. Well, then - law is law. smile
        1. +2
          13 January 2023 12: 11
          Well, he was wrong. I would have turned my finger 180 degrees - maybe I received an award.
      2. +2
        13 January 2023 11: 43
        Quote from: chimik70
        during these years, jokes were already in full swing

        You inattentively read. The old man went to the USA BEFORE THE WAR!
        1. 0
          14 January 2023 07: 41
          Yes, for sure, before the war it was, a mistake came out.
  3. +7
    13 January 2023 07: 11
    A strike here, a strike there, that is, the impression was created that the world revolution was literally on the threshold of

    She, the revolution, actually stood on the threshold. Well, if not the World, as the Bolsheviks imagined it, then the revolution in each individual country. Remember the strikes in France, the growth of the left movement around the world, the Kapp and beer putsch in Germany - although they call it a putsch, however, if you look closely, it is a real speech against the hated order.

    The coming to power in Italy of Mussolini, and after a little more than ten years of Hitler - is that not a revolution? This, of course, is fascism, but it also fought against the hydra of capitalism, however, it fought with its own methods.

    All these Francos, Salazars and semi-fascist regimes in the Baltics and Poland are all attempts to somehow cool the heat of the left movement in their countries.

    In my opinion, the wisest in this situation were the Swedes, or rather, the Swedish Social Democrats, who realized that it is better to give a part than to lose everything. Just a copy of the millionaire Koreiko and plates with a blue border ...
  4. 0
    13 January 2023 07: 37
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, you yourself put forward the thesis about afterknowledge.
    Not ready to talk about the "Pravda" of those years. But the special magazines of the 50s are of very high quality.

    A few essential phrases. And then - a slice of really big work and life. The magazines of our time are too far away.
    And the work of some editors of our time is a separate song.

    The work of a professional is always felt.
    1. -4
      13 January 2023 07: 50
      Quote from Korsar4
      The work of a professional is always felt.

      Then it turns out that all the professionals then migrated to a special magazine where there was less censorship. And in Pravda, only individuals with a flexible spine worked, regularly fluctuating along with the fluctuations of the party line.
      1. +2
        13 January 2023 08: 31
        No. Just less freedom and more responsibility.

        And there are those who speak about the essence of things, and others about emotions.

        I remember Pravda from the 80s. In 1981, it was strikingly different from Pravda in 1989.
    2. -1
      13 January 2023 07: 52
      Quote from Korsar4
      The magazines of our time are too far away.

      I would not say. Why is today's "Model Designer" bad for you? Or Secrets of the XNUMXth century? The one that writes about Hyperborea? So no more often than VO. And the style and syllable there is very good. Ask those who read it here, for example, our readers...
      1. 0
        13 January 2023 08: 33
        I talk about what I'm dealing with. Much depends on the editor.

        And sometimes the editor's job is not to make the article better, but to show their work.

        Disappointing, but true.
        1. -1
          13 January 2023 11: 44
          Quote from Korsar4
          And sometimes the editor's job is not to make the article better, but to show their work.

          A smart journalist always writes for an editor.
          1. 0
            13 January 2023 11: 54
            Not all editors are a benchmark that makes sense to be guided by.
            1. +1
              13 January 2023 12: 53
              Not all editors are a benchmark that makes sense to be guided by.


              That's how lucky you are. request

              1. +3
                13 January 2023 14: 47
                Where is Dostoevsky
                With "Notes ..." known!
                If only a dead man could see their foreheads being beaten against the door!..
                And tell Gogol
                About our life miserable!
                By golly, this Gogol would not believe us.
                1. +2
                  13 January 2023 16: 54
                  Chblotki - since we need girls
                  Nerves are torn - so many years tense
                  And Pele slaughtered the Earth with a saw
                  And now he sits in a madhouse on a needle
                  1. +2
                    13 January 2023 19: 03
                    Well Pele like Pele
                    I explain to Zina,
                    Pele eats creme brulee
                    Together with Jairzinio.
                    1. +2
                      13 January 2023 19: 10
                      Let intrigues weave in the major leagues
                      And let the Canadian name is hockey -
                      We have the floor, see you again!
                      And the players - until better days ...
                      1. +1
                        13 January 2023 19: 59
                        Announcer from his cockpit
                        Covers us for a red word,
                        But not without reason the club "Fiorentina"
                        Offered a million for Byshovets.
                      2. +1
                        13 January 2023 21: 21

                        - Come on, look out of the pile,
                        I saved a hotel for a wise guy,
                        Feints-shminty with figli-migly -
                        This, redhead, is all for the public!

                        Don't take me for a boy
                        We still argue in experience,
                        Why the hell didn't I see the ball?
                        I will run wherever I go!

                        I stand, and he is just the opposite,
                        He fucking cuts, I see the corner at the gate,
                        Naturally, I help the goalkeeper ...
                        Redhead - off his feet, and I say with a smile:

                        "I thought to hit, damn it, in a close way,
                        Did you go to the ladies?!"
                        And he is from the earth to me in English:
                        "Danke shen!..."
                      3. +1
                        13 January 2023 21: 31
                        The ball hid in the cut grass.
                        A second pause on the field and on the air ...
                        They play double-ve
                        We don't care, we have four-two-four.

                        Oh, insight! For him - that football, that ballet.
                        And he always dances on the right edge.
                        There is no justice in the world and on the field -
                        Why do I always only play on the left.

                        Here's an insider scored a goal, having received an accurate pass.
                        I want him to meet me on the road -
                        I can’t: the coach put me on the reserve,
                        And his broken legs get away with it.
                      4. +1
                        13 January 2023 22: 10
                        And the coach told me bluntly,

                        That, he says, he will drown me in a pond,
                        To continue disrespectful to others,
                        If at once, I won’t go down this very hour
                        I'm on the wrong right foot.
                      5. +1
                        13 January 2023 22: 34
                        What happened, why are they screaming?
                        Why was my coach yelling?
                        Yes, just - eight forty result!
                        Only - I stepped over the line.

                        Oh, you have to drink it to the bottom -
                        I take a cup of poison instead of a goblet,
                        I just have to cross the line
                        How do I turn into a kungur man.
                      6. +1
                        13 January 2023 22: 57
                        I did not break the tape, but I finished with the cable -
                        The rope did not cross my cervical vertebra,
                        But from the bushes they shoot at the wheels. I'm not rubles
                        brought to the race -
                        They asked me: “Don’t miss a moment!
                        Find out, is there a limit - there, on the edge of the earth?
                        And is it possible to push the horizons? ”I wind the miles on the gimbal.
                        And I won’t give myself a bullet in the ramp.
                        But the brakes fail... Coda!
                        I miss the horizon from the move!
                      7. +1
                        14 January 2023 01: 03
                        Do not swear from evil longing,
                        Today you are drunk without alcohol:
                        To the mainland, to the mainland
                        The last caravan is coming.
            2. +3
              13 January 2023 13: 10
              Quote from Korsar4
              Not all editors are a benchmark that makes sense to be guided by.

              Sergey! Well, what is the standard? Do you need a publication or not? You just need to focus on that.
              1. +2
                13 January 2023 14: 45
                Often there is a need. But it's too often just a game.
        2. +2
          13 January 2023 12: 39
          Agree. Editor. And let me bring Terry Pratchet, edited by Zhikarentsev. Of course, a lot depends on the carrier, but with the same translator. The same books but under different editions (different publishers) differ like heaven and earth.
          1. +2
            13 January 2023 17: 07
            Yes. And an example of translations of The Hobbit. Some are completely unreadable.
      2. +1
        13 January 2023 12: 31
        The fact of the matter is that we honor, laugh, and young people will believe about Hyperborea, and about who dug the Black Sea, and about the great ones (insert at will), everything is designed for more than one generation. The first generation will laugh and say to the second - look what they wrote! Well, dreamers. The second will say yes, fantastic, but something will remain in the head. Will pass to the third in the form of "but it could be so. Purely hypothetically" and on the rise. And all these generations are not bad people, they were brought up well, etc. But what will happen in 50 generations?
        I don't judge. I don't know what generation I'm in. Well, certainly not the first hundred.
        1. +3
          13 January 2023 14: 49
          This is what point of reference to take. An old Cossack proverb that "Our fathers were Cossacks ...".
  5. +9
    13 January 2023 08: 04
    And why couldn't the tanker have been wounded by shrapnel in the tank? The blank hit the tank, small fragments flew off from the armor inside and wounded the crew.
    Regarding whale oil, both Germany and Japan actively used this product in the food industry.
    1. 0
      13 January 2023 08: 26
      Quote: Waterways 672
      And why couldn't the tanker have been wounded by shrapnel in the tank? The blank hit the tank, small fragments flew off from the armor inside and wounded the crew.

      Could! But why write about it? Who needs such "truth"?
      1. +5
        13 January 2023 08: 34
        Quote: kalibr
        Could! But why write about it? Who needs such "truth"?

        That is, they wrote the truth, but it is not true, because it is written in Pravda? However, researcher...
        1. -4
          13 January 2023 11: 46
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          That is, they wrote the truth,

          In this case, this truth is unprofitable! And the truth about 500 thousand prisoners is also unprofitable. And if it is unprofitable, then why write it? Everything that is "for" us is good, everything that is "against" us is bad! Can I explain clearly?
          1. +2
            13 January 2023 15: 03
            Quote: kalibr
            In this case, this truth is unprofitable! And the truth about 500 thousand prisoners is also unprofitable. And if it is unprofitable, then why write it?

            The truth is that you pulled out the phrase and described it from a favorable side for you.
            And such "petrified" by their passionate conviction in something, they themselves become sources of unscrupulous propaganda, spreading its waves around them...
            1. 0
              13 January 2023 19: 43
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              The truth is that you pulled out the phrase and described it from a favorable side for you.

              Would I ... (a word in VO forbidden) write with a disadvantage. But these are all empty words. If the TRUTH were really "true" we would still live in the USSR today.
    2. 0
      13 January 2023 08: 27
      Quote: Waterways 672
      Regarding whale oil, both Germany and Japan actively used this product in the food industry.

      But we didn’t even eat fish caviar. Banks were in stores ... It was believed that all this was disgusting. The top of poverty is whale meat.
      1. +2
        13 January 2023 08: 54
        Quote: kalibr
        Top of poverty eat whale meat

        Yes, it was, they sold a lot of canned meat (early 80s), in small jars. Very tasteless, it felt like chewing paper.
  6. +5
    13 January 2023 08: 27
    Mdyaya ... An ambiguous impression of the article ... And the cherry on the cake - since when did they begin to stick to anonymity in the opinion section? However, in style it seems like Shpakovsky?
    1. +2
      13 January 2023 11: 47
      Quote: Lesovik
      Mdyaya ... An ambiguous impression of the article ... And the cherry on the cake - since when did they begin to stick to anonymity in the opinion section? However, in style it seems like Shpakovsky?

      I just forgot to write my last name. For 1856 materials, you can forget it once ...
  7. +5
    13 January 2023 09: 54
    In general, they lied then, and apparently, they lie now.
    Everyone can remember how they wrote and promised at the beginning, and what happened afterwards. (for example, about ... Endogan)
    Only politically incorrect "lie" can be replaced with a neutral "PR".

    Good articles about collections of old newspapers... Get rid of illusions.
    1. +1
      13 January 2023 15: 07
      Quote: Max1995
      Good articles about collections of old newspapers... Get rid of illusions.

      Now I understand why I don't have them? I read old newspapers from 1918.
  8. +3
    13 January 2023 10: 54
    In New York, women choke in lines for trendy nylon stockings.

    But really - they choked!

    1940 New York. Sale of nylon stockings.
    Even such stars as Marilyn Monroe participated in advertising.
    1. +3
      13 January 2023 11: 49
      Quote from Passeur
      But really - they choked!

      Vices of capital society!
      1. +2
        13 January 2023 13: 46
        Vices of capital society!

        Women, they are in the cap ... in the social community - they want to look attractive. Therefore, in the USSR it was exactly the same, but a little later.

        It's just that hamsters, with their talk about the "holy USSR", about which they, in the overwhelming majority, know nothing, so dirtied the idea that everything really positive that was in that country was buried under a thick layer of informational manure.
  9. +3
    13 January 2023 11: 51
    My grandfather started the war on 22.06.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX .. tank officer. So, his words, and I believe him, no one wanted to fight on lend-lease equipment. Especially at sub-zero temperatures
    1. +2
      13 January 2023 12: 45
      no one wanted to use lend-lease technology.

      I do not think that this applied to all equipment in a row. This car, M3 Scout Car, was successfully used by ours, from privates to generals, and were satisfied with it. Not only that, immediately after the war it was copied and it turned into an armored personnel carrier - 40.

      1. -1
        13 January 2023 13: 29
        It is useless to explain something to this individual. In June 1945, a month after the Victory, he still does not want to fight on Lend-Lease equipment.
        1. +5
          13 January 2023 13: 54
          Yes, a typo, most likely, I don’t think that a person is so ... "talentless."
    2. +3
      13 January 2023 13: 15
      There are memoirs of the tanker Chibisov "English tanks at the Steep Log". The text is freely available on the Internet. Of course, he is not your grandfather, but he also fought and served on the Matilda tank. And he fought since 1942, and in the summer he was taken prisoner ...
      1. +2
        13 January 2023 13: 53
        I read, I remember that in the American armored personnel carriers there was a stationary stove, which helped the fighters a lot in the winter cold. But in the BTR-40 there was no such stove, and we turned into a potbelly stove, and the pipe was taken out into the shooting hatch on the armor.
    3. +1
      13 January 2023 13: 28
      My grandfather started the war 22.06.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX

      What war did he start in June 1945 if the Great Patriotic War ended a month ago? Before you write, try to turn on your head.
      1. 0
        14 January 2023 17: 21
        But I’m interested in something else - how in the army, and even more so during the war, you can “not want.” Moreover, in the Red Army they were far from fools - all Lend-Lease equipment was studied and tested before getting to the front. It was necessary to write at least some but instructions, to understand the possibilities. So this technique went to the front in fact since 1942, and then there was no time for fat at all ..
  10. +4
    13 January 2023 13: 57
    So, preliminary impressions.

    The first block was aimed at exposing the "decaying West" and the growing labor movement.

    There is no talk of a growing labor movement in our modern propaganda at all. The Communist Party of the Russian Federation and trade unions are formatted by the period of initial accumulation of capital, they have settled down safely, they will not conduct propaganda against the attachment system. This propaganda is not about a class enemy, but about a geopolitical one. It is about the fact that under the pressure of the sanctions heaped on us, for some reason, the "decaying West" will collapse economically and even physically die. Allegedly, their store shelves are empty, the radiators are ice cold, etc. Hunger and cold. We must conclude: "They will die out!" However, those who make such a conclusion are becoming less and less, because there is an available alternative information: "They do not die out, parasites!" Just as their own parasites do not die out.

    The second stream, largely refuting the first, talked about the achievements of science and technology in the "decaying West."

    The scientific and technological achievements of the "decaying West" are also described on the Military Review website. "Decay" in the form of scientific and technological achievements is impressive and raises the same question: "How is it? They rot and, as it were, die out, but come on..."
    A few years ago, cons were put on those who dared to admire the science and technology of the West. Now almost none.

    Finally, feuilletons.


    Such a concept as a feuilleton is now cultivated in an unmarked form on opposition websites and in telegrams as author's "reflections". Those that are directed, as I have already said, at the mass of people who, out of fear, have chosen a pro-government position. And it seems that the authors operate with iron facts, against which you can’t argue, but they operate either with the help of frightening profanity and absolutely terrible futurology, which predicts martyrdom for all representatives of the state-forming nation; or they viciously characterize the population as an uncomplaining, contemptible herd and predict its end in a slaughterhouse in the literal and figurative sense. Thereby strengthening the already legislative disintegration of an ordinary person in relation to public life, together with fear for one's own life. So it becomes the slogan of our time not even "Do not gather in twos!", But the slogan "Do not gather in one!"
    And yet - "We must bring down!"
    This is anti-propaganda.
    "For" propaganda is based on faith, not supported by facts. And then the question arises: "To believe - in whom or in what?" And yes, the only correct answer is "In myself!"
    1. -2
      13 January 2023 14: 46
      A few years ago, cons were put on those who dared to admire the science and technology of the West. Now almost none.

      Come on!? Give an example of objective articles on the site about the scientific and technological achievements of the "West" and critical articles about the "analogue-shitty" achievements of the superethnos.
      1. +3
        13 January 2023 17: 54
        For example, Mitrofanov, about the American Arctic program, a couple of years ago.
        1. +2
          13 January 2023 18: 30
          Will have to search. It even became interesting - Mitrofanov - and an objective article about America.
          1. +3
            13 January 2023 18: 36
            Again, wasn't Linnik objective in the cycle about Polish air defense?
            1. +2
              13 January 2023 19: 15
              Hello Anton! smile

              Yes, Seryozha's articles are at a high level. He hasn’t been seen or heard for a long time, they have everything in order there, don’t you know?

              By the way, Happy New Year! smile drinks

              1. +2
                13 January 2023 20: 06
                Hooray! Old New Year is coming!
                Congratulations to all!

                Christmas is a glorious time!
              2. +3
                13 January 2023 20: 12
                Che is not heard? We moved into a newly renovated apartment. The other day Sergey issued a couple of materials about Ukrainian drones.
                You are just an old and lazy provincial cat and do not follow the secular (the mouseheads will decide that I am mocking the word "Soviet" by deliberately swallowing a couple of vowels, because massozhidon) do not follow the chronicle. Although for Phil, I thank you!
                1. +3
                  13 January 2023 21: 16
                  Well, thanks, I'm happy for the guys. And about drones, I’m already tired of it, but ... it’s my own fault, I had to look who the author was.
                  old and lazy provincial cat

                  Everything is absolutely true, but "Cat" could be written with a capital letter.
                  1. +2
                    13 January 2023 21: 20
                    Criticism with the words of this cute character:

                    I am unknown, but direct and honest,
                    If it's a service, then it's a service to the king.
                    Provincial, but principled,
                    And I love adventure!
                    1. +2
                      13 January 2023 22: 02
                      Meow, meow, meow, everything worked out for me.
                      In the cannibal's lair - comfort and beauty.
                      Meow, meow, meow, you congratulate me!
                      It all ended in victory for the modest cat!




                      And I didn’t even see a Gascon cable there. wink
                      1. +2
                        13 January 2023 22: 16
                        So I didn't look.
                        I like about the cat.

                        “I’m a magician and a wizard, I don’t see the difference.
                        “No, rather, you are a mage. Hurry. For magicians turn into big beasts. And only wizards turn into small ones. They say it's harder. I read about it in some textbook.
                        — Ah, my friend! All this is elementary. If you want - I will be a siskin, if you want - a swift.
                        "Could you turn into a mouse?"
                        - Look! ... Turn into a mouse? And yet, maybe. As Hamlet said, "to be or not to be"...
            2. +2
              13 January 2023 19: 21
              I missed Linnik, I agree. Although under the scientific and technological achievements is meant all the same a slightly different topic. At one time, they tried to publish such articles on the site, but due to the complete ignorance of the authors, the topic died.
              1. +3
                13 January 2023 19: 47
                I think the idea died due to the emasculation (the root word is "ohlos") of the audience. Today, they pushed me minuses on "opinions" for a brief certificate of the authorship of the quote. A contingent discussing the ways of Russian cinematographic culture.
                1. +1
                  13 January 2023 20: 05
                  Anton, where is the line separating the aristocracy from the bachelor?
                  1. +3
                    13 January 2023 20: 19
                    The ability not to feast during the plague.
                    1. +3
                      13 January 2023 20: 49
                      Not a bad answer!

                      Just in case, is it allowed to celebrate a birthday?
                      Or completely without pleasure, as Prince Florizel dined?

                      And if not jokes, then yes. Don't forget about the plague. This is a background from which you can not isolate yourself.
                2. +1
                  13 January 2023 20: 38
                  Today, they pushed me minuses on "opinions" for a brief certificate of the authorship of the quote.

                  It's a clinic, that's to be expected. By the way, an interesting point. Sometimes the authorship is difficult to find out. In the case of the victory of the Prussian schoolteacher, the Italian bibliographer Giuseppe Fumagalli, who in 1921 published the book Chi l'ha detto?, gave authorship to Oscar Peschel. (Who said that?). But where he drew information from, you have to look. The book is in Italian, so I'll have to work hard, I'm not good at Italian.
                  1. +2
                    13 January 2023 20: 50
                    Hmm... Perhaps we should ask our Italian friend?
                    1. +2
                      13 January 2023 21: 06
                      I found it myself. Although the book contains 920 pages of Italian text, there is a convenient index - sayings in the original language. Fumagalli simply unearthed Peschel's article in Das Ausland, July 1866.
  11. +4
    13 January 2023 14: 22
    I've been on this site for less than three weeks, and my articles are already being sorted "by the bones" in other articles. It's nice, of course, even despite the criticism. By the way, your conclusion about effectiveness in the short term and complete ineffectiveness in the long term coincides with my conclusions, which were voiced in an article on propaganda in 1946-64.
    In general, thank you, I read all this with a smile))
    P.S. Why is the article unsigned?
    1. +3
      13 January 2023 15: 02
      Quote: Andrey_Sarmatov
      Why is the article unsigned?

      Forgot
      1. +2
        13 January 2023 16: 57
        By the way, correct at the very beginning of the article, my cycle is not about the Pravda newspaper, but about Soviet propaganda. "Pravda" I considered only as one example of propaganda.
        1. +2
          13 January 2023 20: 37
          But Shpakovsky "put in sight" you have not yet deserved ...)))
    2. +2
      13 January 2023 19: 56
      Don't be shy, Andrew! You have good propaganda materials. But the last one, about the Punic Wars, sucks! You see, here, in the "history" section, such a company has crept up that "one or two" will distinguish falcata from mahaira.
      1. +1
        13 January 2023 23: 48
        Caliber did a shootout with everyone. Who taught and praised, and to whom and deuce, or planted a stake.
  12. +4
    13 January 2023 18: 33
    Anecdote from the 70s. At the newsstand.
    - Give me the truth.
    - There is no truth, Soviet Russia has been sold. There was Labor for 3 kopecks.
  13. +2
    13 January 2023 19: 27
    I.V. Stalin himself read and edited, it is not clear how he missed this at all

    Well, probably Iosif Vissarionovich was simply not the visionary genius-icon that many modern Stalinists imagine him to be. And the fact that sometimes suitable thoughts visited his head did not make him an omniscient person incapable of making mistakes and screwing up big, often not even understanding not only where he screwed up, but also what happened.

    As for Pravda, etc. Soviet propaganda was not originally a tool for adequate information, it was primarily a tool for setting the right (from the point of view of the authorities) information background in a vacuum generated by hypercontrol and the Iron Curtain.
    That is, roughly speaking, "Truth" was a touring magician and not a touring storyteller.
    In the long term, this approach was indeed not smart, but in principle it would be a near-impossible task to predict and lead some constructive line for the period from some 1920s to 1950s. Because there was a fierce raskolbas, and more than a dozen times "respected characters" were turned upside down and became "traitors and traitors to the motherland, accomplices of fascism, etc."
    It is not known whose turn it would be to "stand behind the picture" as in a joke tomorrow or the day after tomorrow (and Uncle Joseph still had to stand behind her, albeit after death), and therefore some kind of single and more "smart" lighting line would be is possible only in the case of a smarter and more unified line of the rulers of the state.
    If, in that era, we imagine at least a minimal "freedom of speech", information and discussion in the press, then a mass of "questions" would immediately surface, each of which, if it hit the masses, could explode, sir.
    However, sooner or later it would be necessary to leave this "piper's melody", as further history showed..
  14. +2
    13 January 2023 23: 12
    Mdya ... I reached the place in the article where the author laughs at the fact that a tanker could have been injured by a shrapnel in a tank ... Is he really so stupid that he doesn’t know that even a projectile that did not penetrate the tank’s armor could inflict significant injuries to the crew with fragments of armor? Stopped reading after that.
  15. -1
    14 January 2023 23: 49
    Thanks, I enjoyed reading it. It is not necessary to idealize the conscientious view of history as the only true one - history has been rewritten and distorted many times in the Soviet style. Somehow, a report of the Sovinformburo on the liberation of a neighboring village caught my eye, in this report an act on the atrocities of the Germans was also cited, in addition, memories from this village of a certain intelligence officer Rafes came across (he told how a military girl got home during the retreat and thrashed, and the Germans who came turned her head back). There was also information about the murder of a villager, her last name was indicated. And this act was allegedly signed by local residents, they are also indicated. And then one of the alleged signers was found (she was a postman in those years) - she does not know anything about the fact that she allegedly signed under something similar; But the murder of the resident was true - there were two sisters who lived across the house in those years, and moreover, their mother was a witness to what happened: the Germans slaughtered the heifer and ordered several residents to cook dinner, among these residents was the mother of the sisters; the Germans got drunk and began to molest the women - and those preparing dinner draped jumping over the fences, the Germans laughed after them. But there were also residents who shared lunch with the Germans and not only, one of them also decided to run away from the persistent gentleman and locked the door of the house where she lodged behind her. An enraged German knocked on the door, and the hostess, according to our tradition, swore at the drunken Fritz - and out of spite he fired a pistol through the door and killed an innocent woman.
    But the murder of a girl with turning her head - in general, no one has ever heard of such a thing, fiction.
    That is, for the propagandists, they did not hesitate to lie.
    but on the other hand, they were silent about such acts of heroism that you are amazed.
    It can be seen that those who "first broke into the cities" with a watering can and a notebook in fact, in most cases, did not visit the places, used the information of "special departments" at best, or composed stories themselves.
  16. 0
    24 February 2023 14: 10
    ... the newspaper was most attentively read and edited by I. V. Stalin himself ...


    The author, Comrade Stalin, was not the editor of Pravda during the war.
    Neither before nor after the war, he was not one either.
  17. The comment was deleted.