Military Review

Dancing with a sledgehammer to the music of Wagner

178
Dancing with a sledgehammer to the music of Wagner

The past year made us think about such an interesting thing as the appearance of a new star in our media-political universe. No, really, the dull grayness of our leading political and media personalities after the departure of Vladimir Volfovich has become even more gray. I, in a sinful way, counted on Ramzan Akhmatovich, but apart from a live press conference (a real live conference), he did not please him with anything, although what the leader of Chechnya did was already out of the ordinary.


The rest is impenetrable dullness in the best style of Soviet times. Censorship, censorship and more censorship. You can say what is allowed, relying on official statements and adhering to the approved line. Really felt like in the USSR at times.

And here is Evgeny Prigozhin


The fact that Mr. restaurateur began to fry in the media kitchen of the Russian space causes very mixed feelings. Yes, it all started not yesterday, but quite a long time ago, but the continuation and New Year's Eve series were more than hot.

The episode with a visit to the prisoners, or as it was immediately called, “tangerine”, which dispersed the phrase “They are the same Slavs” around the country, looked more than strange against the general background of state and patriotic media, which somehow pushed ethnicity into the far corner.


At a time when turbopatriots on all corners are yelling that Ukraine should be driven into the Stone Age, Ukrainians are being tormented to the root - tangerines and "they are the same." No, you know, after the “iPhones” from Abramovich to the “Azov” commanders and Turkish hotels on the seashore, tangerines from Prigozhin ... However, we will not equate the Wagner commander and the oligarch, right?

Then everything did not go according to the usual plan. Meeting the New Year is not in the family circle, not in the iconic institutions of Moscow or St. Petersburg, but with one's own. His fighters on the territory of the Luhansk Republic became their own for Prigozhin. You know, no one has done this, and I think no one will do it in the near future. It’s one thing, you know, to fly a hundred kilometers from the front line in a helicopter, and another thing right there.

If you add to the picture with tangerines and the meeting of the New Year in the circle of your associates, there is also a video from the morgue showing the level of losses, and even with the “Contract over ...” that has gone to the people. You know, here the remark about “bad” (approximate translation) bureaucrats interfering with the war is somehow even lost.


On the whole, what Prigogine is doing really has no analogues in modern Russia, perhaps from the moment of its formation. Not a single politician has allowed himself such a thing, and, most likely, will not allow it.

Yes, this is useful. Looking at Prigozhin, many political figures of Russia broke away from their seats and went to the former lands of Ukraine, but you know, watching all this in the press, they made the same remark: “I don’t believe it!”. There were visits, but somehow it all looked unconvincing.

You know, but everything is simple: the status does not allow! Even Kadyrov, who is undoubtedly the most original and extraordinary head of the subject of the Russian Federation, but even Ramzan Akhmatovich, whom I respect, are kept within certain limits by these rules, the rules of status.

And what about the restaurateur Prigogine in this regard? Yes, the restaurateur of the highest flight, level and all that? Yes, complete nothing and that's the whole point!


The whole problem for the Russian elite is that Yevgeny Viktorovich does not belong to the elite, but stands nearby. You understand who is next to you. Yes, a little to the side, not in the focus of cameras, habitually catching Matvienko, Lavrov, Shoigu and others. Aside. Like Kadyrov. And therefore the line of his behavior is somewhat different from the lines of behavior of all the people listed. And, unlike Kadyrov, the “red lines” for Prigozhin, if anyone will draw, then you yourself understand, the circle of these persons is very limited.

We are adults, therefore, we understand that if Yevgeny Viktorovich rides around the zones and promises an amnesty or pardon to the people, then it is clear that he himself cannot do this. So, he was ALLOWED to promise those who really have the right to pardon. And there is only one such person in the state - the president.

That's why the video with the first "demobilizations" was shown everywhere, wherever possible. So that everyone gets it - Prigogine does not deceive his own. And the fact that I write the word “ours” without quotation marks is because for the special contingent, which today forms the backbone of the Wagner detachments on the front line in Ukraine, Prigozhin is really his own. 12 years for the sins of which he served 9 - this is more than enough to recommend the bulk of the barbed wire.

Yes, not all the criminal “elite” normally perceive Prigozhin’s recruitment of fighters in places of detention, but in reality people go to work not for the state, which is reprehensible, but for Prigozhin with his private shop. This was explained to me by citizens who understand a lot about pistachios.

So there are no analogues to Prigozhin on both sides of the front. Ukrainian special forces intelligence officer Kirill Budanov is very good in this regard, but a one-time action in Bakhmut is a one-time action, albeit with a photo session half a kilometer from Russian positions. The Minister of Defense of Ukraine Oleksiy Reznikov is also nothing, but does not draw on the level of Prigozhin.

I thought for a long time where Prigozhin could be identified with his very peculiar policy, and then it dawned on whom he reminds me of with his actions. Commanders of those republics. A mixture, to be honest, 50% of Mozgovoy, 30% of Bednov and 20% of Dremov. Best interest.


Prigozhin's independence from the political framework, his "non-elitist" gives the right to say what he thinks, without particularly focusing on the possible consequences. Yes, like Kadyrov, but the Chechen leader has a somewhat different approach, based on a different platform.

Therefore, in fact, both leaders can afford almost any statements within the framework of their conscience. Because each of them has a certain number of people performing tasks in the NWO. In the case of Prigozhin's Wagner, it is very effective.

What is the secret of this position of Yevgeny Prigozhin?


There is no secret. His people do the work, and dirty and bloody. I have already said that the Wagner fighters are the most motivated fighters on that front. They really have something to fight for, unlike contract soldiers and mobilized. The “Wagnerites” are on the same level with the fighters of the DPR and LPR in this regard, only there is much less idiocy on the ground.


They are fighting for freedom. Moreover, not for some kind of illusory freedom from Nazism, as some media outlets present for Ukrainian residents, but for their own, personal freedom. This, you know, is much more effective than any propaganda.

Now some bloggers have already screamed that "the cold summer of 1953 awaits us." That pardoned and amnestied people, having won their six months, will return and ...

What about "and..."?

Let's think a little, and what is the prospect of anyone who has served his term of punishment? Of course, if you are Zhenechka Vasilyeva, from whom several billions have been stolen, then you can be calm - life will continue in the same vein. However, in our country there is such a problem that 90% of those who have served their sentences are not millionaires. It is not customary to plant those who stole millions from us somehow.

So upon return, the socialization of these people usually proceeds according to the standard scenario. Few people follow the path of Prigozhin, usually it is the path of Seryoga from a neighboring entrance, who is interrupted by various low-paid jobs, if he works at all. The main thing is to have enough for a drink, and then ...

And here is a variant of a very strange social elevator. If you survive. Six months - and you are no longer a despised former prisoner, but a fighter who washed away the past in battles. Possibly redeemed by blood. And not hanging out in the rear, but actually fighting on the front.


Many people started talking about what a massive return to civilian life of such fighters could bring. Citing examples of how people convicted of robbery and robbery ended up in the ranks of Wagner. Predicting a lot of unpleasant things.

This, of course, is the question of the day - where will such citizens go. “Stole-drank-to-jail” somehow doesn’t look here anymore, because the person has changed somewhat in any case, and such an amnesty, under mines and bullets, is not for you in connection with the election of the next president, as it were. This is not bestowed from the master's shoulder, but well-deserved. Something tells me that it will be more appreciated.

And absolutely not an option to put it on stream. Type got into a peaceful life, immediately broke the law and again found himself on the beaten path leading to the front line. This is stupid.

Of course, the criminals will be just happy to have such trained fighters at their disposal. Hello nineties?

I think no.

Here Prigozhin is simply worthy of applause, because the social lift of Wagner is really something that can relatively solve the problem of amnestied criminals who will win an amnesty for themselves with a six-month service.

Indeed, such a citizen has little choice. Either try to socialize in society (yeah, so everyone believed in the positive outcome of this), or back to places not so remote.

Why? Yes, because during these six months a person has learned what? That's right, survive and kill. Suppose, with the survival of the inhabitants of the zones, there is complete order, here it is only to be polished in terms of digging, movement and everything else. Killing - for many it has become a novelty, but a person is such a thing - he gets used to everything.

That is, in fact, the basic skills for life in ordinary society remained at the same level. But completely different ones developed, in peacetime, as it were, useless in principle.

Who watched the video with the first demobilization, there Prigozhin asks: “Well, where then?”. And the people in the frame really “floated”, because they themselves do not yet have an exact answer to this question in their heads. There was someone more efficient. He answered well: “Yes, we will return, we must finish the job ...”. Everyone exhaled.

And really, why not? Instead of a dull semi-beggarly existence in ordinary life, a person receives a new life. Dangerous, but meaningful. And, most importantly, a decent salary.

I have a friend who tried to go to Wagner. He has a peculiar specialization, they took with hands and feet. Did not go. Two weeks at the base in Krasnodar and returned back to St. Petersburg. Why? "It should be gone for the rest of your life." He made such a conclusion after talking with centenarians. And he seemed to have something to lose in ordinary life, so they parted without pretensions.

But the former recidivists, whose whole life is scheduled until their death - why not? Around their own, living by familiar concepts, speaking in an understandable language. Money - well, there is generally order, and when this war is over - there is Africa, where Wagner has a lot of work to do.

He left the contract, spent honestly earned money - signed a new one. How it differs from "stole-drank-to-jail", everyone can determine for himself.

I will not hide it, I have acquaintances who were mercenaries even when there was no smell of Wagner. That's why I'm a little familiar with this cuisine, according to stories. We got there after shifts on Norwegian drilling rigs, they say - in mercenaries it’s calmer and safer in places. If, for example, hotels in the same Egypt are protected, the main thing is knowledge of the language.

So we are drawing not just a PMC, according to some reports, Prigozhin recruited up to 50 thousand people from the colonies. And Wagner is now a private army with tanks, artillery and even aviation. Yes, it seems to be under the control of the state, but there are also plenty of moments here.

In one of the analytical reflections on this topic, I read the word "Order". Yes, it seems. Transforming PMCs into an order structure in the best sense of the word is a very interesting process.

Today, many are already inclined to consider Prigozhin as a politician of the future. Yes, and he himself, with his media tricks, gives certain grounds for this, but not everything is simple here.

To become one of the Russian politicians - Yevgeny Viktorovich does not have such ambitions. On the contrary, he distances himself from the general Russian mass of politicians, clearly demonstrating that he is different. Therefore, in a bunch of polls like “Who would you vote for tomorrow,” he is easily ahead of many, including Putin. But this is a protest vote, which does not carry anything serious in itself, you understand.

Become one of the political clip? What for? This means the need to fit into the Russian vertical of power, where every cricket knows his hearth. And he is bound hand and foot by the very status that I spoke about at the beginning.

Prigogine, with his own separate (but very useful) structure from the state, is his own top of the pyramid, his own vertical of power, and everything else. He is separate. Therefore, he can afford to do, speak and even criticize, not paying attention to anyone.

Why does he need the Russian power structure, if Prigozhin, in the event of the strengthening of Wagner and its final transformation into an army, will have much more than any Russian politician?

You probably understood that now we will talk about international business. Which gravitates towards extraterritoriality. And sooner or later, but "Wagner" and its founder will be cramped and unprofitable in Russia. Yes, Africa. Remove governments, put in other regimes, take advantage of this - in general, everything that such structures do.

So the question of the further development of Wagner and where its commander decides to put his efforts is a very interesting question.

Today, many are simply squealing, drawing gloomy prospects for an “army of convicts” that will march across Russia in the name of ... in the name of what? Or whom?

On the other hand, what do we have, few people can march? Ministry of Internal Affairs, National Guard? Why necessarily "Wagner"?

Yevgeny Prigozhin created his own phenomenon: the Wagner army.


Private, with guaranteed replenishment in terms of personnel and with a very peculiar structure. Almost never declared by Prigogine himself, political ambitions give a lot of space for reflection, but all this is still rather unsubstantiated.

In any case, if Prigozhin wanted to start a political career, he is guaranteed some support. Yes, small, but much larger than any Russian general. The people of "Wagner" and those behind them are the people of Prigozhin. Not enough for games in the political arena, right? But on the military-political ...

Many today are loudly asking: why does Prigozhin need all this if he is not going into politics? Why does he need all these photos and videos from the front line, where he can’t drag the Russian elites?

I think these questions have been answered. Because, unlike the Russian political elites, for whom we are the electorate and meat, Prigozhin has his own people there. On which he stakes in his future game, it does not matter whether military or political.


We do have an army that is made up of prisoners, but an army that gives these prisoners certain perspectives. Indeed, there is no such practice in the world, and therefore it causes certain concerns.

Given that a wave of contract expiration is beginning, Russia will have to take a close look at how all this will play out.
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  1. svp67
    svp67 11 January 2023 06: 04
    +3
    Yevgeny Prigozhin created his own phenomenon: the Wagner army.
    Which is good in war, but what will it do in peacetime?
    1. Asad
      Asad 11 January 2023 06: 12
      +5
      Time flies quickly, in the summer most of the survivors will be pardoned, of course someone will decide to stay, but I doubt that it will be an attack aircraft.
      1. Alien From
        Alien From 11 January 2023 07: 23
        +17
        It may very well be that the "stormtroopers" will "storm" everyone in a row. In the 90s it was called racketeering. The authorities started a dangerous game, I think they themselves do not fully understand the outcome .......
        1. Dante Alighieri
          Dante Alighieri 11 January 2023 08: 29
          +34
          The authorities started a dangerous game, I think they themselves do not fully understand the outcome .......

          I completely agree with you - they do not understand at all.

          In 2014, as a student of political science, I conducted an analysis of the private military companies that existed at that time, as a result of which I published an article "Outsourcing as a tool for the foreign policy of states." Of course, then there was no talk of any PMC Wagner, and the first timid attempt by the Russian "business" to settle in this field under the name "Slavic Corps" was stopped by the FSB and failed. But that's not the point. The bottom line is that even then it was obvious that the emergence of private military contractors is not a result of the institutionalization of the process coming from below, not a free initiative of the market, as the contractors themselves wanted to present it, but initiated by the state to solve certain purely, specific, and sometimes simply sensitive tasks, or it is dictated by the desire of politicians to delegate their responsibility to other subjects, which, unlike statesmen, are most often not controlled by society.

          One of the key signs of the presence of an invisible regulator in the face of the state was that when forming the PMC, a clear hierarchy and structure was maintained, rigidly tied to the formula: “more power - less power, more power - less power”. In other words, all over the world, PMCs engaged in military operations are built in such a way that in the event of even a hypothetical disobedience to the authorities, army units could wipe a private group into dust and not vice versa. So, for example, they are practically not allowed to have heavy weapons, tanks and strike aircraft, limiting themselves to an ersatz likeness of this technology. And only in Russia they decided to neglect this principle. As a result, we get Prigozhin, who can dictate his will to the governors and even the generals. What is not conceivable in the Western world and in the United States in particular. This is nonsense. The same Eric Prince (Academy, Black Watrer) may well be a media figure, but in no way a political one, and even more so, he cannot influence the process of making government decisions.

          As a result, you can compliment Yevgeny Prigozhin as much as you like, but in reality his person is a serious challenge to our state as an institution, much more significant and more dangerous than the notorious Novalny or Grudinin. And the fact that Prigozhin is formally "his own" should not deceive anyone. This is not just a transfer to private hands of the "holy of holies" of any sovereign state - the legitimate right to use violence. This is his privatization. With all related. About the sledgehammer, I hope it is not necessary to remind? And this is only the beginning...
          1. Eule
            Eule 11 January 2023 08: 50
            +6
            Quote: Dante
            the person is the most serious challenge to our state as an institution,

            In the climate of the Russian Federation, the state is inefficient. Here we need a civilization, like the one that the USSR was before 1964.
            Changing the climate is a mega-project, in the direction of which nothing has been done at all for decades, moreover, the "green agenda" about "low carbon" is a very bad bell. To preserve the state in the Russian Federation, it is necessary either to have electricity and fuel almost free for the population and industry, or to change the climate to subtropical. Otherwise, taxes and requisitions plus winter will break everything.
            Perhaps Prigozhin and "Wagner" will be able to "roll back" the Russian Federation from the state to civilization without any serious upheavals, although there were not very many historical precedents.
            1. Dante Alighieri
              Dante Alighieri 11 January 2023 09: 43
              +19
              Perhaps Prigozhin and "Wagner" will be able to "roll back" the Russian Federation from the state to civilization without any serious upheavals, although there were not very many historical precedents.

              It depends on what to call civilization. The NSDAP also gave the Germans social elevators and a purpose in life. But at whose expense and how did it all end for Germany? Believe me, Prigozhin will not offer you anything else - he is the salt of the salt of this power and the flesh of its flesh.

              I do not have a high opinion of the political elite of the Russian Federation and its cognitive abilities, but the abyss that will open up after them if people like Prigozhin come to power is even worse.
              1. nils
                nils 11 January 2023 12: 23
                +11
                Quote: Dante
                the abyss that will open up after them, if people like Prigogine come to power, is even more terrible.

                I absolutely agree with you!
                The author was honestly surprised when he compared Prigozhin and Alexei Mozgovoy: Prigozhin has 50% of Mozgovoy! They cannot be compared in principle. Brain national Hero of the Russian people. Prigozhin is the foster child of the current anti-people government.
                [media=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClBqDHx3m44]
                1. Civil
                  Civil 11 January 2023 13: 38
                  0
                  It may very well be that the "stormtroopers" will "storm" everyone in a row. In the 90s it was called racketeering. The authorities started a dangerous game, I think they themselves do not fully understand the outcome .....

                  Flesh of flesh, blood of blood.
                2. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 12 January 2023 11: 00
                  +7
                  Foster..... Well, go fight....
                  What's there? Soledar or Artemovsk?
                  EVERYTHING in the world is done by bad people. The good ones lie on sofas and criticize the bad ones.
                  There is a war going on against us. For destruction. And then .... The methods are not the same .....
                  1. BEV
                    BEV 12 January 2023 12: 14
                    -8
                    I hope I have not forgotten who started the war, when and what peoples suffer from it, experiencing the loss of their citizens.
                    1. mmaxx
                      mmaxx 12 January 2023 14: 46
                      +9
                      For once Russia did not wait. And staged a war on foreign territory.
                      The fact that she was forced is clear from the fact that if we needed it, then there were a lot of reasons to start it earlier.
              2. Aleksandr21
                Aleksandr21 11 January 2023 13: 37
                +29
                Quote: Dante
                I do not have a high opinion of the political elite of the Russian Federation and its cognitive abilities, but the abyss that will open up after them if people like Prigozhin come to power is even worse.


                Where is it more terrible? Well, seriously .... the current political elite works for their own pocket, almost all top-level officials have their own dachas / villas on Rublyovka, in the Moscow region, etc. and although I do not like Navalny (who was financed by Western circles), it is impossible to deny the existence of property many times higher than their income.

                I'm not talking about officials / deputies who have property / money abroad ... the same Peskov, who loved to ride to rest in the West and be his own in a party there, is that normal? Or Ksenia Sobchak, who was obviously "helped" by her mother, who has access to the top ...

                Can people come to power, worse than the current ones? Elites focused on the West and on their own pocket... and even the GDP, despite all the propaganda and beautiful speeches, has done little in this regard in 20 years. because there are no landings, the circle of "their" untouchables, their children / relatives quite have real estate abroad, they rest there, study, etc ...

                And Russia needs a leader who will focus not on the Russian business / oligarchic elites and their interests, but on the people and on the development of their own country ... when the money will be added not to the Western moneybox and not to the Asian one, but to the development of the country, to the infrastructure , industry, etc. - while this is not there, there are beautiful speeches, but there are no deeds.

                And people like Prigogine and cadres who have gone through such a social lift will have a completely different way of thinking than the current "elite" ... of course, it will be necessary to separate the completely gangster elements, but among the Wagnerites there will certainly be leaders who will be useful in politics, leadership, etc. .

                Just like among the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, there will certainly be worthy personnel ... (and this is clearly not Shoigu and Gerasimov) .... but Russia needs changes in any case, the current swamp will not lead to development.
                1. _RUSSIAN_BEAR_
                  _RUSSIAN_BEAR_ 11 January 2023 22: 54
                  +9
                  For Wagner, there will always be work while there is a confrontation with the Anglo-Saxons. Compared to foreign PMCs, the Wagnerites have more opportunities, in many ways. But they do not become the same as foreign structures. A little more human, isn't it?
                  1. Dwellernet
                    Dwellernet 12 January 2023 13: 59
                    -8
                    And why does Wagner need to butt heads with the Anglo-Saxons, risk his life, when there is Russia nearby that can be milked and terrorized with complete impunity?
                2. Dante Alighieri
                  Dante Alighieri 12 January 2023 07: 46
                  +11
                  And Russia needs a leader who will focus not on the Russian business / oligarchic elites and their interests, but on the people and on the development of their own country ...

                  Totally agree with you. Moreover, everything you said is really true. But understand one thing. Evgeny Prigogine is a person who is inside a certain system, formed inside it and built into its body. The only thing that, apparently, distinguishes him from his "colleagues in the shop" (it makes his cellmates say laughing ) - a slightly larger outlook, allowing you to understand that the system that gave birth to and elevated it is in crisis. The only problem is that this is a bourgeois, capitalist system and there are not so many ways out of this internal crisis. Moreover, one of the simplest and, at the same time, extremely effective is the creation of an open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinistic, most imperialist elements of finance capital. Moreover, given the configuration of our state superstructure in the form of a super-presidential republic with absolute dictates of one person, this is the most organic and appropriate way out for the domestic capitalist elite.

                  I do not think that Yevgeny Prigozhin, as part of this system, will be able to overpower himself and oppose this trend.

                  Therefore, when you ask the question "Where is it more terrible?" remember that some of those who serve our political elite quite openly admire such a country as Chile under Augusto Pinochet and Spain under Franco. I do not think that such examples will be to your liking. I definitely don't.

                  I do not argue that we need changes, that the current swamp will not lead us to development. But the source of these changes, it seems to me, should lie outside the limits of the system that is now taking place. And yes, I am more than sure that in Russia there will be worthy personnel who are able to lead this movement, who are not tainted in serving the current elite. Most likely, these are far from media faces, but ordinary people, representatives of that very deep people who have a monstrous craving for life, and therefore, in an hour of need, are able to give rise to personalities that everyone else will follow. No matter how idealistic it may sound, the same Alexei Borisovich Mozgovoy is a clear example of this.
                  1. Dwellernet
                    Dwellernet 12 January 2023 13: 57
                    0
                    I absolutely agree with you, but in my opinion you write very scary things.
                3. alekseykabanets
                  alekseykabanets 12 January 2023 08: 35
                  +4
                  Quote: Aleksandr21
                  And people like Prigozhin and cadres who have gone through such a social lift will have a completely different way of thinking than the current "elite" ...

                  Yes, exactly the same way of thinking as famous characters from the time of the underestimated Austrian artist. And everything will end exactly the same as in Germany. Apparently, someone wants to repeat and replay the experience of the "Third Reich". Today, this oligarch and his private army are being promoted too much. This is not good.
                4. Dwellernet
                  Dwellernet 12 January 2023 13: 55
                  +3
                  Quote: Aleksandr21
                  And people like Prigogine and cadres who have gone through such a social lift will have a completely different way of thinking than the current "elite" ... of course, it will be necessary to separate the completely gangster elements, but among the Wagnerites there will certainly be leaders who will be useful in politics, leadership, etc. .

                  That's right, a different way of thinking. And this thinking is based on complete permissiveness, no moral, ethical and legal norms at all. Remind me of the sledgehammer? Add to this a personal army equipped with all types of weapons, including heavy weapons and aircraft. Are you afraid? And I am very scared, because such people, for the sake of their interests, can unleash a bloody massacre on the territory of the Russian Federation at any moment and there will be nothing to stop them.
                5. Just a guest
                  Just a guest 12 January 2023 22: 45
                  -5
                  In any case, Russia needs changes, the current swamp will not lead to development.

                  That is, in your opinion, Russia has not changed in the last 20 years? I'm not talking about development. Although let's compare Russia in 1985, Russia in 1995, and Russia in 2015? What Yeltsin managed to destroy over the past 20 years has been largely restored. But I don’t need to speak for the type of non-working factories. Yes. Unprofitable factories from the 80s do not work. But others have been built.
                  there are no landings, the circle of "their" untouchables, their children / relatives quite have real estate abroad, they rest there, study, etc ...
                  do you need landings? Do you think that an official is a thief by definition? Do you have proof? Submit them to the prosecutor. Are these your guesses? Did you decide this because their children study abroad and they have dachas? Who is stopping you from sending your child to study abroad? And buy yourself a cottage? I have many acquaintances whose children study abroad and who have dachas. And they are by no means officials.
                  And Russia needs a leader who will focus not on the Russian business / oligarchic elites and their interests, but on the people and on the development of their own country ...
                  I will tell you a terrible secret. Any leader focuses primarily on business. Because it is business that creates the economic basis of the country. It is easier for him to negotiate with one owner of 10 factories than with 1000 people working at these factories. They have one desire - to do less, to get more. But they do not want to change anything in their lives. Again, I know enough people who complained about their worthless life, blaming everyone for it - the president, the country, the neighbor. But not yourself. And I know other examples. When people at the age of 40-50 went to study in order to change their profession. They moved to other cities because there was work for them.
                6. Ruslan Saidov
                  Ruslan Saidov 13 January 2023 08: 30
                  +3
                  And how did Prigogine himself get the capital? Like everyone else in the 90s-2000s ..., a typical bourgeois, who, in which case, will begin to eliminate his class opponents, and ordinary proletarians will suffer, and don't talk about "he is for his people", this is ridiculous, he is for his capital, the rest is secondary, such is capitalism.
              3. Mishka78
                Mishka78 11 January 2023 13: 48
                +17
                Quote: Dante
                but the abyss that will open up after them, if people like Prigogine come to power, is even worse

                I applaud your thesis.

                "But you could guess, thought Rumata. Where dullness triumphs, blacks always come to power." (c) ANS BNS
            2. Stanislav_Shishkin
              Stanislav_Shishkin 12 January 2023 01: 34
              0
              Quote: eule
              In the climate of the Russian Federation, the state is inefficient. Here we need a civilization, like the one that the USSR was before 1964.
              Before 1964, there were very different civilizational vectors in the USSR: "NEP in earnest and for a long time", "Socialism in a single country", "Communism by 1980". Which one is closer to you?
            3. Antonina Ignatenko
              Antonina Ignatenko 16 January 2023 12: 10
              0
              "There were not very many historical precedents." But those that were, formed in a similar way. Julius Caesar, Napoleon, Osman Gazi, Prince Vladimir, Olaf Tryggvason - these are all successful warriors who initially had no chance in the real elites, who came to the heights of power on the shoulders of their soldiers, with whom they shared all the hardships and risks of marching life. This is the archetype of the ideal political leader. That is why we respond so strongly to it.
          2. Alien From
            Alien From 11 January 2023 19: 41
            +2
            I just remembered the notorious TV series "Octopus", very similar hi
          3. PROVINCIAL
            PROVINCIAL 12 January 2023 09: 18
            -9
            I do not agree with you.
            1. Offer an alternative today.
            2. Wars never end, trained people will always be in demand.
            3. Where does the information come from that PMC Wagner has its own heavy equipment and aircraft.
            4. If the first three points are not clear. Go to the recruiting office and sign up as a volunteer, and the Wagnerites will be returned to serve out.
            1. Dante Alighieri
              Dante Alighieri 12 January 2023 10: 08
              +7
              1. Offer an alternative today.

              A normal combat-ready army, provided with everything necessary.
              2. Wars never end, trained people will always be in demand.

              Again, why the hell do you need an army then?
              3. Where does the information come from that PMC Wagner has its own heavy equipment and aircraft.

              The T-72 tanks they demonstrate in their commercials are never light. No, of course, I admit that the Wagnerians could have been allowed to purely "drive" them, rent them out, or simply be allowed to show off against the background of the tank, but the crews are Wagnerian ones (at least they give comments and interviews as PMC employees), but why keep a tanker on staff if there is no appropriate equipment? They also have helicopters. Basically Mi-8 with nurses on the suspension. Not a crocodile or an alligator, of course, but also a force.
              4. If the first three points are not clear. Go to the recruiting office and sign up as a volunteer, and the Wagnerites will be returned to serve out.

              Don't tell me what to do and I won't tell you where to go. I did not ask the country's leadership to unleash the NWO. They had plenty of opportunities to do without military intervention at all, but they simply ignored all alternative options. Now the realization has come that by their adventure they have endangered not even the country, but their own position, because sooner or later someone will have to answer for this voluntarism. So why should I save them and pull them out of the trap, where they rushed so happily themselves?
          4. Devil13
            Devil13 12 January 2023 18: 36
            -1
            If he bangs snickering freaks with this sledgehammer, the people will forgive him everything.

            And I will remind you that we need competing structures, incl. power.
            Previously, there was a trio: the Ministry of Internal Affairs-KGB-Army.
            Then the FSB crushed everything, the police became nothing, the army had no power.
            Then the army got hot, the FSB ate it up and works ... specifically. The police made the National Guard.
            Now Prigogine, as it were, stands on the sidelines.
            And against his background, it becomes clear that the army, bye-bye, there are few good people above colonels.
          5. Jager
            Jager 12 January 2023 18: 51
            +3
            Everything will be in order, because this whole vertical is based on the "guarantor", and he is already aged. As soon as the door closes behind him, I strongly doubt that the same Kadyrov will not be removed by a rival clan.
        2. flyer
          flyer 11 January 2023 09: 53
          +12
          With a victory, the surge will be insignificant, within the framework of cockroaches in the head, of individual personalities, but in the event of a result different from victory or even a draw, albeit temporary, the prospects are of course foggy ...
        3. skeptick2
          skeptick2 11 January 2023 12: 22
          +18
          Quote: Alien From
          The authorities started a dangerous game, I think they themselves do not fully understand the outcome .......

          Apparently, Skomorokhov does not understand this simple truth either. It's a pity ... I did not expect from him ...
          I will say one thing - if Prigozhin had not initially had far-reaching political and financial goals (and in Russia politics and money are tightly tied together), he would not have started his game.
          "Prigozhin is simply worthy of applause," that means... According to Skomorokhov. He will soon be worthy of a public office at such a pace. Or military. Any.
          Why not? If in a neighboring country a twice-imprisoned convict managed to become president, why not repeat his path to a man who trampled the zone only once? The advantage is there.
          1. Essex62
            Essex62 12 January 2023 00: 12
            +3
            If you raise the archive of operational data of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, there are thousands of current figures who did not sit there "workers of an iron and a soldering iron", from the saints of the 90s. And about heavy equipment noticed for sure. Several tanks, by the time and place, are capable of changing the social system, not like the owner of a stool.
        4. spirit
          spirit 11 January 2023 12: 43
          +1

          History is cyclical) We already had a similar character in our history:
          Kotovsky. A criminal, a swindler, a thief who roamed more than one walker in the zone, who was sentenced to death during WWI. But times were hard and the Bolsheviks attracted the "talents" of this zk and gave him a whole brigade, which, ironically, fought with the Petliurists ( Do not find the irony? Really laughing ) And he showed himself so well that at 25 he almost became Deputy Minister of Defense Frunze (another analogy is present, many want Prigozhin to Minister)
          He was shot dead at some kind of banquet, on Monday, by his former sidekick of the famous Yaponchik from Odessa, allegedly for the death of Yaponchik himself, or "certain people" simply removed him and dumped everything on the dismantling of former accomplices. Draw your own conclusions hi
        5. Xnumx vis
          Xnumx vis 11 January 2023 15: 47
          +3
          Quote: Alien From
          It may very well be that the "stormtroopers" will "storm" everyone in a row. In the 90s it was called racketeering. The authorities started a dangerous game, I think they themselves do not fully understand the outcome .....

          Rather, it is the Foreign Legion, only from former prisoners. What lies ahead for them? Unlike legionnaires, they do not need citizenship. But pensions and benefits are needed. How long will you need to serve in Wagger PMC to receive a pension and benefits? This is up to the command of Wagner and his patron. If they benefit Russia, then why not use their energy and strength in the right direction. To do useful things for the country in a military way, while not being officially government departments. This is aerobatics..
        6. sadam2
          sadam2 11 January 2023 21: 50
          +3
          the circuit itself is working. but this scheme needs to be improved. The Federal Penitentiary Service contains 800 thousand prisoners. if somehow adjust this process to the flow.
          I remember the article here there was a rod under the bullets of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, like zombies, they mentioned some kind of pills .... the best pill turned out to be a sledgehammer ... here it is the secret of patriotism ... and those bandits who have already rewound the spots about what kind of patriotism to tell them? they are in complete denial of power ... life on a stand is not sugar - here’s an automatic machine show you how you can die, you’ve already died ... such a new social experiment to dispose of crime ...
          yes, he was a scumbag in that life, but he died for the empire ... some kind of posthumous rehabilitation, some kind of money, like preferences for children. why not legalize it posthumously. he lost the most valuable thing - life
          agree to get into those 20 survivors, this is still that lottery ... but God forbid with such a civilian ..
        7. victor50
          victor50 12 January 2023 21: 11
          0
          Quote: Alien From
          The authorities started a dangerous game, I think they themselves do not fully understand the outcome .......

          What if they understand? For example, do they see their faithful, personally devoted armed support?
        8. Sergey Romanchenko
          Sergey Romanchenko 13 January 2023 03: 49
          -1
          I also thought it might be. But I think it will be but not very much. PMC Wagner himself will catch them and we will see a new video of "a sledgehammer and a racketeer." the Wagner brand must be preserved.
    2. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 11 January 2023 06: 27
      +13
      Quote: svp67
      Yevgeny Prigozhin created his own phenomenon: the Wagner army.
      Which is good in war, but what will it do in peacetime?

      read carefully, the article has the answer. and yes, PMCs do not have "peace time".
      1. svp67
        svp67 11 January 2023 06: 58
        +10
        Quote: Aerodrome
        read carefully, the article has the answer. and yes, PMCs do not have "peace time".

        But the country has it. And to have an army of "penalty boxers", with tanks, artillery and aircraft... But won't she have a desire to appoint Presidents herself????? History is full of such examples.
        1. Shark Lover
          Shark Lover 11 January 2023 08: 15
          +8
          Sergey, remember about 10 years ago they said about the same about the Chechen Army.
        2. sadam2
          sadam2 11 January 2023 09: 17
          +9
          The guarantor doesn't have much of a choice right now. Or leave the situation at the mercy of Prigozhin and lawlessness or row young puppies to the front ... all with his approval ... Prigozhin has already walked along Lapin Gerasimov Shoigu Dimon ... of course, not impromptu, all with permission ...
          No matter what kind of mess is going on right now, it’s still too late, all this trash will have to be somehow formalized into a legal framework ... they will finish work near Bakhmut, they will make them national heroes, ... they will bleach at Skabeeva
        3. Xnumx vis
          Xnumx vis 11 January 2023 15: 54
          0
          Quote: svp67
          PMCs have no "peacetime".

          But the country has it. And to have an army of "penalty boxers", with tanks, artillery and aircraft... But won't she have a desire to appoint Presidents herself????? History is full of such examples.

          There are plenty of cases outside the borders of our Motherland. From Canada to Indonesia. Remember where only our guys were not. With us in the training regiment (sergeant's school) there was a separate company. Half a year in a combined arms training course, half a year in a special school in the Moscow region. Then a year and a half of service somewhere in hot countries. Latin America . Middle East, Africa, Asia.. ...And how many were there? So many !!! hi bully
    3. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 11 January 2023 07: 11
      +8
      Quote: svp67
      Yevgeny Prigozhin created his own phenomenon: the Wagner army.
      Which is good in war, but what will it do in peacetime?

      It may decide to become a new guard that arranges state coups in the country and changes kings. Independent, completely loyal to one particular person, well-armed, well-equipped formations for which the law is an empty phrase. What are the other options here?
      1. old
        old 11 January 2023 07: 29
        +5
        What are the other options here?

        There was such Malyuta Skuratov, under Ivan the Terrible ..
      2. Simple
        Simple 11 January 2023 16: 50
        +2
        Quote: BlackMokona
        What are the other options here?


        Maybe the president of Russia is glad to change something, but the river in which he is sailing in a canoe has bronzed and the option with Prigozhin's guardsmen - so, just in case a fireman - so that there will be no unrest when the helmsman "gets tired and can't."
    4. Shark Lover
      Shark Lover 11 January 2023 08: 13
      +3
      It's written. Further new markets for Wagner's services, the world. There are many places where they will be needed, especially with such experience and with such advertising. Even their actions are somehow not very compatible with the word advertising.
    5. HefeDMB69
      HefeDMB69 11 January 2023 09: 15
      +3
      And what does the foreign legion do with the French? Fighting. For money. Honorary work.
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 11 January 2023 09: 26
        +9
        And what does the foreign legion do with the French? Fighting. For money. Honorary work.

        Even in parades, one regiment with sledgehammers, sorry, with axes

        1. Non-fighter
          Non-fighter 11 January 2023 10: 28
          +11
          Judging by the leather aprons, we are pioneers, they are also sappers. And yes, the ax is their main tool. And they are listed in the main army.
      2. Yaroslav Tekkel
        Yaroslav Tekkel 11 January 2023 21: 54
        +4
        He fights, but as part of the Armed Forces, and not as a private shop.
      3. would
        would 11 January 2023 22: 40
        +6
        But the Foreign Legion is precisely the army and they fight there largely for citizenship. In fact, there are many places (even in Russia) and the uniqueness of the Foreign Legion lies precisely in the fact that it is a direct separate military unit specifically for foreign soldiers.

        In addition, the legion also provides free higher education, that is, the opportunity to integrate into a peaceful French life. There are generally many benefits up to a special nursing home for Legion veterans.
      4. dump22
        dump22 12 January 2023 11: 50
        +4
        The Foreign Legion is a state military unit.
        Manufactured from contract volunteers.
    6. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 January 2023 10: 34
      +4
      Quote: svp67
      Which is good in war, but what will it do in peacetime?

      The same thing that this PMC was doing until 2022 - to earn money. In the same Africa and the Middle East.
    7. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 11 January 2023 11: 51
      +17
      Quote: svp67
      Yevgeny Prigozhin created his own phenomenon: the Wagner army.
      Which is good in war, but what will it do in peacetime?

      And then don’t go to the grandmother, and everything is clear. Some of the Wagnerites will integrate into civilian life, I hope there will be a majority of these. Someone will create an organized crime group or enter it. Someone will return to Wagner, and there will be many of them.
      Everything is as always and everything is as everywhere.
      What will happen to Wagner and Prigogine himself? And who can predict? If he goes into politics and puts forward his candidacy, then the people who voted for him can be safely sent to a psychiatrist. The best option for Russia is if he goes into politics abroad and for the benefit of Russia.
      What Prigozhin said - "They are the same Slavs", well, they really are Slavs. And it bugs me when they are called "militants". What kind of "warriors" are they? They are soldiers and officers of the Outskirts army. And they defend their homeland. This is what they think and believe in it. They cannot think differently, circumstances do not allow. Therefore, they are very motivated. What about our fighters? Who told them about their motivation? - The president. And what percentage of the 300 called on the agenda listened to him? And what percentage of those who listened listened attentively? And what percentage of those who listened carefully understood the president? And here the question of political commissars directly arises. Maybe it's time to go back to their institute?
      Here, on the site, many people are spitting poison at the Ukrainians. And in vain. This is from a lack of understanding of the essence of what is happening. These are all emotions that do not give a sober look at the reality.
      If it were my will, I, for each Ukrainian prisoner, paid, albeit a small, but bonus to the fighter who took him prisoner. And in the case of an inhumane attitude towards prisoners and wounded who were captured, he severely punished.
      If you dream up a little, Poland decided to chop off Galicia for itself. What percentage of captured Ukrainians will refuse to prevent Poland from doing this? I think it's very small. And you need to think about it already yesterday.
      1. Yaroslav Tekkel
        Yaroslav Tekkel 11 January 2023 21: 58
        +9
        Ukrainians are doing what we were taught. Fight. And we began to behave towards them like the Germans once: "Ivan, give up! Why are you resisting? There are more of us, our equipment is better, resistance is pointless, hearty feeding awaits in captivity."
        1. Maxim Arkhipov
          Maxim Arkhipov 12 January 2023 16: 52
          +2
          Agree. We are not stronger than them. Prigozhin's success is in money and freedom. In a certain percentage of truth. The enemy deserves respect for sure. Dispersed screeches of patriots with insults from the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the inhabitants of Ukraine do not add respect. At least they think they know what they are fighting and dying for. The Prigozhinskys know. But our population does not know and does not understand at all.
          1. guest
            guest 12 January 2023 16: 57
            0
            Quote: Maxim Arkhipov
            We are not stronger than them.

            Have you seen the movie "Brother 2"? There is a quote there is a good "strength in truth" so that we are stronger here.
            1. Just a guest
              Just a guest 12 January 2023 22: 59
              0
              And what is she? Truth? Why is our truth truer than theirs?
              1. Krasnoyarsk
                Krasnoyarsk 13 January 2023 16: 59
                +2
                Quote: Just a guest
                And what is she? Truth? Why is our truth truer than theirs?

                For one simple reason - we are fighting for the interests (security) of Russia, and they are for the interests of the EU and the US, and that says it all.
        2. guest
          guest 12 January 2023 16: 55
          -4
          Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
          And we began to behave like Germans towards them

          Who are you comparing with the Nazis, speak only for yourself.
      2. Vladimir80
        Vladimir80 12 January 2023 10: 10
        +3
        “They are the same Slavs”, well, they really are Slavs. And it bugs me when they are called "militants". What kind of "warriors" are they? They are soldiers and officers of the Outskirts army. And they defend their homeland

        "about the Slavs" - you tell the Poles and Czechs and then you can go fraternize with them (as in 1917)
        "they protect their homeland" - and if their homeland has gone over to the dark side, do they also need to protect it?
        our mistake is that we started first, instead of parrying a possible blow by accumulating strength - now there are such talks about the Vushniks "defending their homeland from the invaders"
        1. Maxim Arkhipov
          Maxim Arkhipov 12 January 2023 17: 02
          +4
          Everyone is personally responsible for the fact that he crap. Each frog praises its swamp. What is dark for us is very light for them. And they are ready to die for it. And we have no less deserters and ssykunov. I will say more - they have deserters direct and obvious, but we have two-faced intriguers. When Russia is yelled forward, but I have diarrhea. I cant. And personally, as a resident of a systematically shelled city on the border, I can’t see where and whom we are defeating. But you can see the line of defense under construction on the territory of the Russian Federation. Next to my house.
        2. Yaroslav Tekkel
          Yaroslav Tekkel 12 January 2023 19: 38
          0
          And if the Ukrainians had not attacked insidiously? No, we couldn't take that risk.
        3. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 13 January 2023 17: 15
          +4
          Quote: Vladimir80

          "they protect their homeland" - and if their homeland has gone over to the dark side, do they also need to protect it?

          You just can't understand a simple thing - they were convinced that it was Russia that went over to the dark side. They are sure that it is they who, defending their homeland, are fighting on the bright side. And they don't care what you think about it. After all, as they think, if Russia did not want to, then Crimea would remain part of Ukraine. And since Crimea went to Russia, it means - "Russia took Crimea". Since the Donbass does not want to be part of Ukraine, it means that "Russia wants to take the Donbass." Everybody! Ukraine is being robbed! Russia is the aggressor. Gotta protect the baby! This is the primitive level that 90% of Okraintsy think about.
    8. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 11 January 2023 11: 52
      +2
      Quote: svp67
      Which is good in war, but what will it do in peacetime?

      Maximum - they will sit down again and return to Ukraine))
      Those who are smarter will spend what they earn and sign a contract in Africa / other Wagner locations

      Those who
    9. Sergeant_Soviet_Army
      Sergeant_Soviet_Army 11 January 2023 12: 03
      +8
      Every day on planet Earth, wars are unleashed, take the same Africa, there is always someone fighting with someone. There will be work for PMCs.
    10. Zakirov Damir
      Zakirov Damir 11 January 2023 23: 42
      +6
      Quote: svp67
      Yevgeny Prigozhin created his own phenomenon: the Wagner army.
      Which is good in war, but what will it do in peacetime?

      And what did 900 thousand convicts do during the Second World War, who filed a petition on a voluntary basis and joined the ranks of the Red Army? Did something terrible happen then? They won back and returned to civilian life - no one served their time.

      The same will happen with the "Wagnerites" and there is no need to stir up from scratch! The guys are fighting, destroying the enemy, and under what motivation - it doesn’t matter!

      Either sheer delight from the "Wagnerites", then fears that they will return to civilian life and rampage of crime will go on. That is, guys can die, but living nearby is undesirable!

      Some kind of nonsense, and in my opinion the local forum audience has long been living beyond the rules!
      1. Essex62
        Essex62 12 January 2023 00: 29
        +2
        In our country, the whole country lives according to concepts. Not the classic ones, of course, they introduced new ones. It is not very successful to live according to the laws, they are always interpreted one-sidedly. "Terpila" is one of those concepts, but is used in new ones.
    11. Rage66
      Rage66 12 January 2023 18: 58
      +1
      The Wagner army was not born after the start of the NWO and will not die after it ends hi
      1. water
        water 14 January 2023 21: 52
        0
        Quote: Rage66
        The Wagner army was not born after the start of the NWO and will not die after it ends

        I guess the Wagner Army is the call of the times. And Yevgeny Prigozhin, although he does not wear a military uniform, nevertheless embodies that long-lost type of commanders, about whom they once said: "Servant of the Tsar, father of the soldiers." Apparently the time has come for our Russia to save the world again by remaking itself into a Horde state.
    12. _Valery_
      _Valery_ 12 January 2023 22: 54
      +4
      And who said that it will be, this is the most "peaceful time"?
    13. Klausp
      Klausp 15 January 2023 16: 47
      0
      When will peacetime come again? It seems, based on the initial data, not soon. So, PMC Wagner or something else, maybe PMC Prokofiev or PMC Dandelion there, will be very necessary. Therefore, the presence of PMCs is much better than their absence, as history has shown.
  2. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 11 January 2023 06: 08
    +5
    Whatever the lawyers say about musicians, this category of the military often fights much more effectively than the professional army of Russia.
    There is very little information about the battles between the Wagnerites and the Ukronats... but even what gets into the information space is very impressive... it's not for nothing that the Americans are trying with all their might to discredit Prigozhin's Cheka.
    To me, the Wagner fighters are more reminiscent of the army of Yermak, who conquered Siberia ... the same dashing people with a violent temper, but imprisoned for the sovereign's business.
    1. svp67
      svp67 11 January 2023 07: 40
      +5
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Whatever the lawyers say about musicians, this category of the military often fights much more effectively than the professional army of Russia.

      What's so amazing about that? During the war, penal companies and battalions also fought more effectively than combat units, since they had no other way ... I wouldn’t wish anyone just now to be among the Wagner attack aircraft ... This is the reincarnation of Sparta in pure, for them there is only a way forward or death
    2. old
      old 11 January 2023 09: 12
      +10
      The PMC Prigozhin has something that we do not have at all (and is not expected in the foreseeable future) - ideology. You can talk as much as you like about “we don’t need this”, but they are fighting for it and doing it well.
      1. AdAstra
        AdAstra 11 January 2023 09: 21
        +2
        And what is their ideology, may I ask?
        1. old
          old 11 January 2023 12: 24
          +9
          And what is their ideology, may I ask?

          Approximately the same as the IRGC. In addition, this is a brotherhood, although living according to the concepts, so to speak. And it really works.
          1. Simple
            Simple 11 January 2023 16: 56
            +2
            Such a normal brotherhood - in order to get into it, you must first sit down, sit and feel the price of freedom.
            Entrance-ruble, exit-two.
            1. svp67
              svp67 13 January 2023 13: 42
              +3
              Quote: Simple
              Such a normal brotherhood - in order to get into it, you must first sit down, sit and feel the price of freedom.

              Well, you are wrong here. They began to recruit convicts not long ago, and they are not the "backbone" of PMC "Wagner".
  3. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 11 January 2023 06: 20
    0
    Elite, with the Pugacheva fled for the cordon. And those convicted are fighting for the memory of their fathers and grandfathers.
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 11 January 2023 09: 26
      +8
      strange comparison - were they on equal terms from the beginning? and in Wagner they are fighting, not only for the memory of their fathers, they recently showed a black man ...
    2. AdAstra
      AdAstra 11 January 2023 09: 55
      +8
      They are not fighting for memory, but as it was correctly written in the article for their personal freedom.
    3. Churchill
      Churchill 11 January 2023 11: 54
      +8
      You do not carry propaganda garbage for suckers. Neither victory nor defeat depends on Pugacheva and her ilk, they don’t pump oil with gas and ammonia through Ukraine and don’t withdraw money for it.
      1. Xnumx vis
        Xnumx vis 11 January 2023 16: 02
        -10
        Quote: Churchill
        You do not carry propaganda garbage for suckers. From Pugacheva and her like, neither victory nor defeat depend,

        They are the information garbage. The word of a well-known, respected by society person kills more than a weapon and raises to the most terrible bloodshed ... And money for gas. oil and ammonia are used to pay the Army and Navy. pensions and allowances to ordinary people... For the construction of combat aircraft and ships... It's the Svidoukras who should turn off our streams... But for some reason they don't want to..... Pennies treba...to hell...because!
    4. Yaroslav Tekkel
      Yaroslav Tekkel 11 January 2023 22: 02
      +6
      Well, if Pugachev were to die for retreat or improper execution of an order (a sledgehammer is for effect, it’s usually just a bullet in a pumpkin), and those convicted would have the opportunity to go abroad to their villas and millions - then we could compare their moral qualities .
  4. Nikolay Malyugin
    Nikolay Malyugin 11 January 2023 06: 21
    +13
    I would not consider Wagner PMC as a purely private company. This is about the same level (not in terms of income) as Rosneft, as Rosnickel. Purely theoretically an independent company, but practically different from foreign PMCs.
    1. Aleksey7777777
      Aleksey7777777 11 January 2023 11: 14
      +7
      Exactly what is only theoretical. They are needed in the war, Soledar clearly showed this, but we will see what will happen after the war ...
  5. parusnik
    parusnik 11 January 2023 06: 45
    +1
    It's too early to draw conclusions, we'll see how it all ends ..
    1. AdAstra
      AdAstra 11 January 2023 09: 22
      +5
      Only now I would not be carried away by the bride.
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 11 January 2023 09: 56
        +2
        I am afraid that it will end with events and actions, during the German Revolution of 1918, there is a Freikorps - PMC Wagner.
  6. Gardamir
    Gardamir 11 January 2023 06: 54
    +12
    However, we will not equate the Wagner commander and the oligarch, right?
    There is one feature that even knowledgeable people keep quiet about.
    Five years ago, people were embarrassed to talk about Prigogine. But they were talking with might and main about Dmitry Utkin, who loved Wagner's music .. Prigozhin then gave money, Utkin can be considered the founder. By the way, why not consider Prigozhin an oligarch?
    1. Alien From
      Alien From 11 January 2023 07: 28
      +3
      “By the way, why not consider Prigozhin an oligarch?” Rather, he is a devil from a snuffbox! I just don't understand who is covering it. request
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 11 January 2023 07: 42
        +6
        Rather, he is a devil from a snuffbox! I just don't understand who is covering it.
        And why did he appear .. Donbass, Donbass, Africa, Africa, but the fact that the former will gather at the first whistle ..
      2. flyer
        flyer 11 January 2023 09: 56
        +11
        All the pro-government oligarchs in our country are supported by only one person.
        1. Alien From
          Alien From 11 January 2023 19: 24
          +1
          "" All the pro-government oligarchs in our country are covered by only one person" "" tell me what his name is ??????( belay Pinocchio, if so)
    2. Edik
      Edik 11 January 2023 09: 47
      +1
      Quote: Gardamir
      But they were talking with might and main about Dmitry Utkin, who loved Wagner's music .. Prigozhin then gave money, Utkin can be considered the founder. By the way, why not consider Prigozhin an oligarch?

      Again he distorted everything. If you don’t know, don’t write.
  7. Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 11 January 2023 07: 39
    +7
    Of course, the criminals will be just happy to have such trained fighters at their disposal. Hello nineties?

    Hi Hi!!! The 90s will seem like an easy walk through the spring forest in sunny weather... bully hi
    1. Alien From
      Alien From 11 January 2023 07: 42
      +6
      Then there were Afghans, now ours ...... a very dangerous path
  8. Fima
    Fima 11 January 2023 07: 44
    +2
    Well, here is the answer to a number of questions raised in today's articles on VO: "Strategic problems of Russia", ""Lithium famine" destroys Russia's ambitions."
    Creation of a social lift, development of mechanisms for gaining control over the markets of high-tech raw materials (uranium, rare earth elements, technical diamonds, etc. will prevail in the next 50-100 years) in "friendly countries". I assume that companies like Uranium One will provide enough orders for such "orchestras". And yes, the "demonstration of the flag" of Russia is also an important factor.
  9. Luminman
    Luminman 11 January 2023 07: 48
    +8
    For some reason, the fate of E. Ryoma and his attack aircraft was remembered ...
    1. Virus-free crown
      Virus-free crown 11 January 2023 08: 12
      +7
      Quote: Luminman
      For some reason, the fate of E. Ryoma and his attack aircraft was remembered ...

      And for some reason, me too... drinks
    2. Yaroslav Tekkel
      Yaroslav Tekkel 11 January 2023 22: 03
      +1
      Outstripped! But Rem really fought, unlike Prigogine.
  10. Fima
    Fima 11 January 2023 07: 54
    +4
    And further. It can also be a social lift for representatives of the small peoples of Russia (Kalmyks, Buryats ......). Let's be honest - the level of education, for a number of reasons, is not very high, and work in such structures is an opportunity to feel needed by our Motherland.
  11. Raccoon Raccoon
    Raccoon Raccoon 11 January 2023 08: 00
    0
    For some reason, no one mentioned the French Foreign Legion. There, too, at first they took everyone in a row, including frank scum, regardless of citizenship, religion and skin color. However, the final "buns" (if you survive and if you serve until the end of the contract) are very generous. And Prigogine is just getting started.
    1. AdAstra
      AdAstra 11 January 2023 09: 25
      +5
      But don’t tell me to whom this subdivision is subordinate and how is this reflected in the laws of France?
  12. your vsr 66-67
    your vsr 66-67 11 January 2023 08: 16
    +10
    He left the contract, spent honestly earned money - signed a new one.


    I read these lines and immediately remembered. No, not the military, and not PMCs!
    And the golden ones! There is such a category of people in the North, and among them I had plenty of acquaintances.
    They work in gold mining artels. These artels were, as it were, private in Soviet times. Eight months of work for 12-14 hours without days off and holidays! No alcohol law. Slightly sipped, free! And no calculation! Well, if the chairman of the artel will give money for the journey. If not, then there is only one road for the guilty - to "scourges"! Getting out of the North without money is almost impossible!
    So friends told me: - I worked for the season, I received a calculation (a lot of money) and a certificate for the police that you are not a bum, not a scourge, not a parasite, but an honest goldsmith! And for 4 months at sea, in warmer climes. Almost none of them had families! For 4 months I lost tens of thousands of rubles, and a telegram to the chairman: - Send money for the road! He returned again to the artel, and another circle! And so from year to year! Decades! And what? No care. They feed, wash, they have a roof over their heads. Just work!
    I saw something similar in many demobilized Wagnerites. How does his stay in the PMC differ from the zone? Many! Monetary allowance, the opportunity in six months to revel in glory. Well, what about death? So you can meet her in the zone ...
    1. Eule
      Eule 11 January 2023 08: 53
      +11
      Quote: your vsr 66-67
      Lost in 4 months

      And someone for 4 months built a house for the family, for the next four - for her sister and her husband ... People are different.
      1. your vsr 66-67
        your vsr 66-67 11 January 2023 11: 41
        +3
        Quote: eule
        Quote: your vsr 66-67
        Lost in 4 months

        And someone for 4 months built a house for the family, for the next four - for her sister and her husband ... People are different.

        There were some. I agree with you. But a very small percentage! Trust me. I knew goldsmiths and Bodaibo, and Taksimo, and other artels. And everywhere one contingent!
        1. Kruglov
          Kruglov 12 January 2023 11: 35
          +5
          And yet, "golden" much more often, it so happened, called people who were engaged in somewhat different activities. However, it is also very specific. It seems that "artel worker" or "prospector" in this context would be more appropriate in meaning. Sincerely.
          1. your vsr 66-67
            your vsr 66-67 12 January 2023 14: 30
            0
            Quote: Kruglov
            And yet, "golden" much more often, it so happened, called people who were engaged in somewhat different activities. However, it is also very specific. It seems that "artel worker" or "prospector" in this context would be more appropriate in meaning. Sincerely.

            Well, maybe that's what you called it. And in our region they were called precisely "gold miners"! You can't throw away the words from the song...
            ps. Miners, this is a completely different contingent. These are mostly loners, rarely more! Of the miners, I personally knew only one. Came to our village from Magadan. He talked a lot about the life of miners. Here is an example from Shishkin's book above. That's where the episode with the prospector is described!
    2. Waterways 672
      Waterways 672 11 January 2023 09: 46
      +9
      This is what V. Shishkov described in "The Gloomy River". Classic.
      "I'm Ivan Pyatakov, I'll buy and redeem. I've got here," he patted his pocket, "two pounds of gold groats, and here's a nugget bigger than your sniffer. Can you hear it?
      "Sam" blinked at another fellow. He cheerfully blurted out an unfinished piece of velvet on the counter:
      - Sorry! No higher. Especially for counts.
      “Uh-huh, good,” the prospector blew his nose, holding his nostril. - Isn't it better? The pile is weak .., well, okay. How many, if a couple onuch?
      - For a couple of onuch? the clerk closed his eyes. "Shut up, footcloths?"
    3. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 11 January 2023 22: 01
      +2
      My cousin worked in the artel in the late Soviet period. They had both a party and a Komsomol organization in their artel.) There were not only prospectors as such, but also service, and administrative and managerial personnel (at a minimum), and transport workers. And it was mostly family people who worked. We worked intensively, but it cannot be said that there were no days off and holidays at all.
  13. Kuziming
    Kuziming 11 January 2023 08: 22
    +17
    Even a convict looks great against the background of our professional politicians. These are the consequences of many decades of negative selection for power.
  14. S. Viktorovich
    S. Viktorovich 11 January 2023 08: 49
    +15
    A simple question - why is a PMC needed at the front now? After all, historical experience suggests that a victorious army must be well-controlled and all be built according to uniform principles. The answer suggests itself - because the army created by the state is "ineffective".
    1. ALARI
      ALARI 11 January 2023 09: 23
      +8
      I would not say that the Army is not effective, but Wagner is. It's just that society is not ready for losses in the army if it fights like Wagner. But society will forgive the high losses among mercenary prisoners and in some places even approve.
    2. NAP
      NAP 11 January 2023 14: 29
      0
      Because in the armed forces, units are really assault units that can. In PMCs, there are 80% of such units.
  15. Yaroslavl
    Yaroslavl 11 January 2023 09: 19
    +12
    There are no questions for Wagner and Prigogine, there are for those who created a dull beggarly life for the people in the country ... Therefore, I see no reason for a surge of mass patriotism and self-sacrifice ... in order to fight like Stalin, one must live like Stalin, not Rothschild .. .this is to guide
  16. AdAstra
    AdAstra 11 January 2023 09: 19
    +7
    This is how it turns out in our "legal", when there are no laws, but someone "who needs a leg" if you really want to, then you can. We will cry even with these "redeemers".
    1. Maxim G
      Maxim G 11 January 2023 10: 31
      0
      What's stopping you from protecting yourself? In advance.
      1. AdAstra
        AdAstra 11 January 2023 19: 50
        +1
        The absence of a law allowing you to buy a short barrel.
        1. Maxim G
          Maxim G 11 January 2023 20: 42
          -3
          Longbarrel home.

          Trauma, gas cartridge, aerosol device, etc. With myself.
          1. Essex62
            Essex62 12 January 2023 00: 46
            +2
            So maybe they’ll just give it in the ear and they’ll requisition the shovel, and you’ll puff any stink out of the cans or shoot with rubber bands for sure. Not effective. Of course, the COP is preferable, they will shoot half the country. In other matters, this topic has been raised more than once or twice.
            1. Maxim G
              Maxim G 12 January 2023 02: 11
              -3
              Are you familiar with the experience of using gas, traumatic weapons?
              1. Essex62
                Essex62 13 January 2023 09: 39
                +1
                Firsthand. Owned and used. Once successful. But a couple of times the result was negative.
                It came to hand-to-hand combat, given the quantitative superiority of frostbite and the lack of Bruce Lee's talents, it turned out sour.
          2. AdAstra
            AdAstra 12 January 2023 07: 58
            -2
            Ahahahaha laughing thank you cheered me up in the morning hi
            1. Maxim G
              Maxim G 12 January 2023 08: 42
              -2
              What makes you laugh?
              I am also for the legalization of the Constitutional Court, without the qualification to own a weapon before (as it is now for rifled and multi-charged smoothbore).
              But since this is not possible, it is worth buying what is allowed.
    2. Nastia makarova
      Nastia makarova 11 January 2023 12: 49
      -3
      In Russia for centuries there were no laws that could not be circumvented
      1. AdAstra
        AdAstra 12 January 2023 07: 59
        0
        Only, for example, I'm not the one "who needs a leg", so that later there would be nothing to bypass the law laughing
  17. Tarasios
    Tarasios 11 January 2023 09: 28
    +4
    A good article, but in some places there is a frank syrup, several times, for a guarantee, rubbed into the brains of readers.
  18. ku2mihc
    ku2mihc 11 January 2023 10: 17
    +3
    And why did everyone decide that Wagner is a gang of prisoners? If anything, then the number of released prisoners in the company is 30-40 percent at most. And they are not the main fighting and driving force of Wagner. And the volunteers. Guys who, although they say that they came for money, actually serve Russia. You can kill for money, no one will die only for money. By the way, there are more "coffin" in the Moscow Region, as well as for a wound, but people go to Wagner.
  19. freejack
    freejack 11 January 2023 10: 31
    +2
    The author did not live in Soviet times, and does not know what dullness is ...
    You would be attracted there for long hair !! (((
  20. Fima
    Fima 11 January 2023 13: 24
    +2
    I think so, is this the development of a "business scheme", taking into account the layout of the Tarot cards? Raising the Flag of the STATE is not expensive, BUT VERY EXPENSIVE!
  21. egorMTG
    egorMTG 11 January 2023 13: 33
    +1
    Quote: Dante
    The authorities started a dangerous game, I think they themselves do not fully understand the outcome .......

    I completely agree with you - they do not understand at all.

    In 2014, as a student of political science, I conducted an analysis of the private military companies that existed at that time, as a result of which I published an article "Outsourcing as a tool for the foreign policy of states." Of course, then there was no talk of any PMC Wagner, and the first timid attempt by the Russian "business" to settle in this field under the name "Slavic Corps" was stopped by the FSB and failed. But that's not the point. The bottom line is that even then it was obvious that the emergence of private military contractors is not a result of the institutionalization of the process coming from below, not a free initiative of the market, as the contractors themselves wanted to present it, but initiated by the state to solve certain purely, specific, and sometimes simply sensitive tasks, or it is dictated by the desire of politicians to delegate their responsibility to other subjects, which, unlike statesmen, are most often not controlled by society.

    One of the key signs of the presence of an invisible regulator in the face of the state was that when forming the PMC, a clear hierarchy and structure was maintained, rigidly tied to the formula: “more power - less power, more power - less power”. In other words, all over the world, PMCs engaged in military operations are built in such a way that in the event of even a hypothetical disobedience to the authorities, army units could wipe a private group into dust and not vice versa. So, for example, they are practically not allowed to have heavy weapons, tanks and strike aircraft, limiting themselves to an ersatz likeness of this technology. And only in Russia they decided to neglect this principle. As a result, we get Prigozhin, who can dictate his will to the governors and even the generals. What is not conceivable in the Western world and in the United States in particular. This is nonsense. The same Eric Prince (Academy, Black Watrer) may well be a media figure, but in no way a political one, and even more so, he cannot influence the process of making government decisions.

    As a result, you can compliment Yevgeny Prigozhin as much as you like, but in reality his person is a serious challenge to our state as an institution, much more significant and more dangerous than the notorious Novalny or Grudinin. And the fact that Prigozhin is formally "his own" should not deceive anyone. This is not just a transfer to private hands of the "holy of holies" of any sovereign state - the legitimate right to use violence. This is his privatization. With all related. About the sledgehammer, I hope it is not necessary to remind? And this is only the beginning...


    - No one can fully understand and predict the Exodus with certainty ...
  22. akela_sp
    akela_sp 11 January 2023 13: 35
    +1
    A couple of years ago, the idea appeared that Roman is a Russian Shariy. At that time, there was still an ambivalent opinion about Shariy, but recently everything has become clearer and more definite. Well, Roman also played with colors in all its glory. His style is quite recognizable, so I immediately leaf through the article, look at the author. If Roman - well, he's in the swamp along with his cooking.
  23. egorMTG
    egorMTG 11 January 2023 14: 21
    +5
    Quote: Aerodrome
    Quote: svp67
    Yevgeny Prigozhin created his own phenomenon: the Wagner army.
    Which is good in war, but what will it do in peacetime?

    read carefully, the article has the answer. and yes, PMCs do not have "peace time".


    - Here you don’t even need to go to the grandmother: - * Unceremonious Army * of the future Monarchy ...
  24. egorMTG
    egorMTG 11 January 2023 14: 26
    +1
    Quote: svp67
    Yevgeny Prigozhin created his own phenomenon: the Wagner army.
    Which is good in war, but what will it do in peacetime?


    - * Unceremonious Army * - the future Monarchy ...
  25. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 11 January 2023 14: 58
    +4
    The main thing is that the lessons of this mini-army are learned and which ones need to be scaled. If the PMC passes this massacre in 404, we will have the most powerful PMC that can solve big projects around the world. And this should not be embarrassed (Liberals marginalize precisely the Russian PMC) this is a good tool to "get over" And no less important is the connection of the striking forces of the Russian Army with PMCs ....... directly at work. And then the general's elite loves to freeze off from the guys from the PMC Wagner.
  26. Alex242
    Alex242 11 January 2023 16: 20
    0
    I consider this article a direct and indirect attack on Prigozhin, and it also looks like a custom article ... from some envious lampoons, they themselves did not really achieve anything, but the Wagnerites are a rod and achieve success ...
  27. Geo73
    Geo73 11 January 2023 17: 02
    0
    There is no need to be afraid of the Prigogine phenomenon. But the First World War brought millions of attack aircraft capable of killing into the native land of the warring countries and they became the driving force behind the Revolutions / revolutions
    1. Russian Patriot
      Russian Patriot 12 January 2023 04: 18
      +1
      That wouldn't hurt us at all. Only after the victory.
  28. Visher
    Visher 11 January 2023 18: 50
    +1
    About 50000 prisoners pleased. These are 3 and 1/3 divisions, where can you get so much weapons and infrastructure? With numbers it is necessary either exactly, or without them. About 5000 MB, I believe, and so every 6 Wagner prisoner comes out.
  29. Carlos Hall
    Carlos Hall 11 January 2023 22: 52
    0
    Yevgeny Prigozhin and his Wagner group have shown that they know the art of waging war and winning.
  30. The comment was deleted.
    1. Dante Alighieri
      Dante Alighieri 12 January 2023 07: 59
      +6
      You know, Yaroslav, I haven't seen such a competent layout here on the forum for a long time. It just becomes joyful that there are such commentators and creepy, from the understanding that what you read is possible.

      The only comment on the number. As Strelkov notes, most of the Wagner personnel are not involved in Ukraine, but still defend the interests of our business in Africa and the Middle East. So there are most likely no 40-50 thousand Wagnerites directly at the front. I think that Western analysts simply dragged volunteer units here, of which there were about 50-60 thousand. And yes. How many real fighters Prigozhin has, only Prigozhin himself knows (and I also hope those bodies that are supposed to know this. I really hope so)
  31. Maks1995
    Maks1995 11 January 2023 23: 09
    +8
    Right now they are wildly promoting Prigozhin's private army.
    And where did the wildly promoted Chechens at the beginning of the NWO go? That almost every day there were rollers, as they are, clean. They find something there, Kadyrov promised to catch Zelensky... and now zero... Who knows?
    As with Syrian and African volunteers and Odessa partisans even earlier
    1. AdAstra
      AdAstra 12 January 2023 16: 32
      +3
      Well, they began to understand "how they are, clean ones. They find something there" that this is just a performance, but in reality there is not much won because they are all under the department of the "cardinal's guards" and there, nevertheless, a slightly different task and propaganda needed a new "fetish" ". You just read all the news where only Wagner and Wagner and you get the impression that the "legendary" does not fight at all and it’s like she doesn’t exist or something.
  32. vlad20000
    vlad20000 11 January 2023 23: 21
    +1
    I didn’t catch much difference between + sat down - went out - stole - drank - back to prison + and + sat - PMCs - spent money - again in PMCs - in the cemetery + ....... well, except for the fact that in the first version five to seven times you can go in a circle and in the second, most likely, the second circle is guaranteed to be a cemetery.
  33. clackon
    clackon 11 January 2023 23: 45
    +1
    And why did this author, and many others, take that the basis of this PMC is convicts? And what is the percentage of prisoners among the fighters? What do we know about Wagner? Never mind. Everyone, with a smart look, begins to talk about the motivation of his fighters without knowing anything at all about who is fighting in it.
    And what is the number of "Wagner"? Fig knows.
    Yes, by the way, which PMC has planes (according to Prigozhin himself) and tanks. This is not a PMC in the usual sense (PMCs do not replace the army and perform either auxiliary tasks or tasks abroad of a “delicate” nature), this is a real private army, and with an incomprehensible legal status.
    At the expense of success, everything is also not so clear. There is a lot of PR - apparently a lot of money has been spent on this. We will be able to find out the real results after, uh, a special operation.
  34. Fima
    Fima 12 January 2023 03: 08
    +1
    You are mistaken! Peacetime is the flight time from point "A" to point "C", for the rest I repeat and translate: ~ 300 minutes of full sleep to target or goal
  35. Russian Patriot
    Russian Patriot 12 January 2023 04: 16
    +1
    I will not forget how Prigogine said that "if you are not satisfied with the prisoners in the war, then let your children fight."
    Strongly.
    May God grant him health.
    1. BEV
      BEV 12 January 2023 12: 44
      +1
      I wonder where in this scheme you have identified the Russian army with more than 1 million in number?
  36. nazgul-ishe
    nazgul-ishe 12 January 2023 05: 31
    +1
    Perhaps this is the army of the future, and what will it do in peacetime .... And who can guarantee that it will come. All the same, the state can come to its senses and adopt the necessary ideology, and there will be work for everyone.
  37. Sergey Egorov_3
    Sergey Egorov_3 12 January 2023 09: 42
    +2
    well, the article, the thoughts are not bad, but a lot that is far from reality, the backbone of the Wagner, is still made up of former military men, there are about 7 thousand of them, about the total number, as I understand it, you took from American sources, their intelligence spoke about this , I hasten to disappoint you, on average in the colonies, 30-50 people were recruited, I saw in the telegram more than one, two or three interviews of former prisoners, when asked how many left the colony, such figures were said, we don’t have so many colonies to recruit 50 thousand)) you are right about politics, it’s not for nothing that a person began to shine on TV
  38. ivan2022
    ivan2022 12 January 2023 09: 56
    -2
    For him, victory is the path to power. Initially, Yeltsin took power for the sake of creating a "not typical state" - a machine for plundering the country ........ but he called this "democracy".

    And now things are coming to a logical conclusion. Without democratic props and stupid tricks. . The thief is the people's "authority". Who sat in the zone, that is the salt of the earth !! He has the right to demand that everyone breathe as he says.

    This has been hammered into the heads of the townsfolk for decades and endless propaganda of crime in the media.
    The people are ready for it.

    Prigozhin is Yeltsin today. Yeltsin, who knew a lot and was wise.
    REFINED
    The author is 100% right in that the Prigogine phenomenon is purely and only ours, a domestic phenomenon.
  39. wlkw
    wlkw 12 January 2023 10: 06
    -2
    I wonder what percentage of survivors the Wagnerites have?
  40. Vladimir80
    Vladimir80 12 January 2023 10: 23
    -2
    for completeness, the article must be supplemented with two important points (maybe I just didn’t notice in the water):
    1. from what funds is the financing of PMCs (real - the budget of the Russian Federation or what?)
    2. What is the real average life expectancy of a "Wagnerian" in the conditions of his own (can it be different - what percentage are the survivors after a year of conflict?)
    1. BEV
      BEV 12 January 2023 12: 53
      0
      Conducting hostilities is extremely costly for the state, not to mention private traders. The consumption of cartridges, shells, missiles, fuel, equipment, maintenance, supplies, delivery and much more is billions. Where does PMC buy them? At what prices. On what basis. Try to buy a grenade or MANPADS. And the mortar? Definitely out of budget. And there are no problems with the contingent. They pay little, they will kill payments and there are no insurances.
  41. sdivt
    sdivt 12 January 2023 11: 07
    0
    An ambiguous future for Mr. Prigogine. In our country, the popularization of the military has always led to some kind of murky endings, which boil down to their "accidental" death. I remember General Lebed, brigade commander Kotovsky ...
    1. place
      place 12 January 2023 15: 28
      0
      Quote from sdivt
      An ambiguous future for Mr. Prigogine. In our country, the popularization of the military has always led to some kind of murky endings, which boil down to their "accidental" death. I remember General Lebed, brigade commander Kotovsky ...

      Remember General Rokhlin and Deputy Ilyukhin. Deceased untimely..... Not that case! You just look at the pictures on the net.
      Prigozhin, Utkin individually and together with the Supreme...

      God forbid to see this in a dream!

      And at the same time try to find out the nationality of our heroes; Prigogine and Surovikina....
      1. sdivt
        sdivt 12 January 2023 16: 24
        0
        If it's easy, expand the comment
        What is he talking about?
        What could I not see or notice in the photos?
        And what do the nationalities of Prigozhin and Surovikin have to do with all this?
  42. flicker
    flicker 12 January 2023 11: 51
    0
    So upon return, the socialization of these people usually proceeds according to the standard scenario. Few follow the path of Prigogine, usually this is the path of Seryoga from a neighboring entrance, who is interrupted by various low-paid jobs, if he works at all.

    Here is a really valuable statement: FEW WILL REPEAT PRIGOGIN'S WAY!
    ---
    And indeed, in order to go through such a path, someone very influential had to help him and help with some important PURPOSE for himself!
    Who helped and for what purpose?
    And this must be dealt with, since the fate of Russia largely depends on this.
    And in this we will be helped to understand another good idea of ​​the author
    I thought for a long time where Prigozhin could be identified with his very peculiar policy, and then it dawned on whom he reminds me of with his actions. Commanders of those republics. A mixture, to be honest, 50% of Mozgovoy, 30% of Bednov and 20% of Dremov. Best interest.

    An interesting comparison, but Prigozhin is more similar in his media promotion ... to Strelkov.
    Strelkov also had an interesting path to media fame. The man really managed to make war and someone probably decided to use his experience. In 2014, Strelkov is a real defender of the Russian world in the Donbass. The media coverage was just off the charts. After that, he suddenly collapses an extremely important sector of the front and goes to Donetsk, where there is almost a clash between the “strelkovtsy” and the Donetsk militias. There are suggestions that Strelkov intended to go with his fighters to Rostov and raise a rebellion there. Moreover, the rebellion could be quite successful.
    Interesting scenario.
    It is clear that the Makarevichs with Shenderovichs, Albats and others cannot overthrow Putin, because they are not liked in society. But the untwisted patriot is quite.
    ---
    Question: How can the West destroy Russia?
    Albats, Makarevichs, Shenderovichs? No.
    Only by the hands of "patriots". Why does he (the West) need to create and promote a "super-patriot".
    Such, it seems, was Strelkov in 2014 (who was most likely driven into the dark), and someone else may turn out to be the same. And this "super-patriot" will then suddenly deploy his media patriotic pumping against the Russian authorities (which, by the way, certainly needs to be reformed - just so as not to overdo it.
    People are mortal, and God forbid that something happens to the head of our state, and at this time a "super-patriot" can turn the energy of the people against the government, demolish this government and demolish the state along with it.

    There is such an expression: The cure for the poison differs in dosage!
    it is this formula that allows you to separate the wheat from the chaff.

    So if the dosage is violated (and media promotion is a violation of the dosage), this should immediately arouse suspicion.
    With Prigozhin (with all due respect to him), the media dosage is clearly starting to exceed. In addition, it is not true to equate PMC Wagner and Prigogine.
    Once again
    FEW WILL REPEAT PRIGOGIN'S WAY!
    But such a path took place. Who helped?
    ---
    And finally, it is not appropriate to compare Kadyrov and Prigogine.
    Kadyrov (for a long time) holds at least two fronts: the Caucasus against Russia and Islam against Russia.
    And now he regularly sends volunteers to the front.
  43. BEV
    BEV 12 January 2023 12: 57
    -2
    Imagine the Victory Parade. When we defeat Ukraine, NATO and the United States.
    There are shelves on Red Square. And among them there will be PMCs and Akhmat?
  44. acetophenone
    acetophenone 12 January 2023 15: 26
    +1
    Quote: svp67
    Yevgeny Prigozhin created his own phenomenon: the Wagner army.
    Which is good in war, but what will it do in peacetime?

    Peaceful time? And what happens and this? In my opinion, there is always a war and short periods of preparation for the next one. And even then - there are not always gaps.
  45. Mikhail Ivanov
    Mikhail Ivanov 12 January 2023 15: 33
    -1
    The Wagner Group was not created yesterday or on February 24, many do not even think about it. And it was created not only by Prigogine, but also by serious military professionals. Prigozhin is a competent administrator, he knows how to work in a way that civil servants who are supposed to solve similar problems cannot work. He is needed now and therefore he is tolerated. They will solve with their hands important tasks that they themselves could not solve, and they will remove it on the sly ...
    Prigozhin showed the whole world how to fight. He, unlike the Slavic corps, gave results in Syria, then successes began in Africa. All these cases have become positive in the end from the point of view of the economy. And in the Donbass, he even surpassed the successes of such respected units as Sparta and Somalia. It is clear that he has a serious administrative resource from his inner circle ...
  46. Wayfarer_2
    Wayfarer_2 12 January 2023 15: 43
    +2
    No, not very convincing. In order to shift governments and change regimes somewhere in Africa, you need something else besides combat training. Namely - that someone pays for it. This is the first and foremost. Who will pay and whether it will matter to Prigozhin who pays him and in whose interests the regime in the country is changing is a big question. Well, one cannot but say that not a single PMC can do without the support of the state where it was created. Do you seriously think that France was afraid of Prigozhin's PMC alone and got out of several African countries for this reason? And Russia, as it were, has nothing to do with it? Or some kind of American "Academy" or "Black Water" or whatever it is, without the USA is something formidable? That is it.
  47. Mahony
    Mahony 12 January 2023 15: 49
    +3
    Such a field commander, standing above the law, only to the zone or to the grave. There is no other way.
  48. Glagol1
    Glagol1 12 January 2023 16: 14
    0
    The mattresses have a bunch of PMCs, the paddling pools have a foreign legion, and so on. So what?! To live with wolves - howl like a wolf. We are opposed by such shit that any means are acceptable. Maybe not everything is perfect, but this is the answer to the challenge that has been thrown to us. Good luck Wagner fighters! And Prigogine too!
  49. AC130 Gunship
    AC130 Gunship 12 January 2023 17: 58
    +3
    This was all in the 90s. Two jeeps full of yesterday's Vdvshniki, arriving at the port with weapons, and announcing that there is now a new owner in the port.
    A person who received a term of 10-15 years under a serious article is very, very unlikely to go after the amnesty to the stall at Pyaterochka to sell phone cases.
    And in an office for an average position such as a deputy head of a department, they simply won’t pull brains. Yes, and VO is required for such positions ..
  50. Nick2591
    Nick2591 12 January 2023 19: 04
    +1
    PMC "Wagner" flesh and blood child of our oligarchy. To have at hand an entire army that fights much more effectively than a regular army is a great temptation for the authorities to use it against their people. We have elections in a year.