"Pawed Geese" Uncle Sam in battle. Arkansas Starts and Loses

161
"Pawed Geese" Uncle Sam in battle. Arkansas Starts and Loses
Guns are unloaded on the battleship Arkansas. Black and white newspaper and magazine graphics of those years



Ah, what is moving there along the river,
Plays with white smoke and shines with metal in the sun.
What is heard there in the distance,
These sounds of a weary familiar fly towards.



Oh, don't lie to me forebodings,
Yes, my eyes did not lie.
White swan gliding on the wave
The steamer is moving along smoothly.

"Steamboat" Leonid Utyosov

History military equipment. Last time we settled on the fact that the gunboats of the southerners went to Fort Pillow and hid there, preparing to unexpectedly attack the ironclads of the northerners. The languid expectation of the upcoming battle put pressure on the nerves of both, but then seven ram ships came to the aid of the northerners. They were commanded by Colonel Ouellet of the American Army, and it was he who built them. He chose the fastest ships that he had at hand, ordered to sheathe their bows with metal and armor the car and paddle wheels on them.


Federal battleship "Galena" with traces of battle damage. The photo clearly shows the core, which is stuck in his hull above the waterline

Now the Southerners had eight ramming ships, and the Unionists had only seven, but they had seven more armored gunboats. Upon learning of this, the southerners acted decisively: they blew up the fortifications of Fort Pillow, and they themselves rushed to attack the ships of the northerners, stationed on the Mississippi at Cape Relrod. The inhabitants of Memphis rushed to watch such an impressive spectacle, as a result, masses of people literally stuck around the banks surrounding the place. By the way, in this place they were quite elevated, so a real “theater” came out for them: they themselves were in relative safety, because the ships didn’t shoot upwards, but they could see absolutely everything from above! Moreover, they were mostly women, old people and children, because most of the southerners-men were in the army. Those who could not or were too lazy to go ashore climbed onto the roofs of houses, and even on the city bell towers there was practically no crowding!


Arkansas' first fight with Carondelet. The wooden gunboat "Taylor" can be seen in the distance. Interestingly, due to the lack of protective paint, the ship of the southerners was painted ... pink, which is why it was even nicknamed the “red ram of the Mississippi”! The big drawback of the battleship was its vertical armor, installed in this way in order to save metal

The ships approached, and a deafening cannonade began. In the cramped and hustle of battle, one southern ram sank his own ship. Then another ship caught fire and threw itself into the shallows, after which another ram exploded from the explosion of steam boilers. Finally, the Confederate flagship also sank, all pierced by cannonballs, but her crew managed to swim to safety.


Battle of the river battleships on the Mississippi. Particularly affected in such battles were the "Tom Sawyer steamboats", armored with cotton bales. They were even given their name "cottonclad" - that is, "cotton armadillo"

The result of the 70-minute battle was the complete defeat of the rebel squadron, another 150 people were killed and wounded, while the Unionists had only ... one lightly wounded on their ships!

But on the other hand, the inhabitants of Memphis received a wonderful sight, better than any modern blockbuster: ships collided with a roar, a total of 600 guns rattled, steam boilers and cool chambers exploded on ships, throwing huge pieces of torn metal into the air, and wooden hulls made a terrible crack from battering rams and cannonballs! However, when the thick powder smoke dissipated, a terrible picture appeared before the eyes of the inhabitants of the city - the completely defeated ships of the Confederate squadron. And then they realized that the northerners would land troops right now, subject them all to terrible violence, and ... rushed to escape to the city and beyond! This is how the northerners took Memphis, and it was another step towards achieving the victory of the industrial North over the agrarian South.


Arkansas goes to battle!

The capture of Memphis was also important because since October 1861, the southerners have been building two of the same type of battleship Arkansas and Tennessee there. But the latter, to a lesser degree of readiness, was blown up before the capitulation of the city so that it would not go to the northerners. But back in April 1862, the Arkansas was taken to the Yazoo River, in Yazoo City, where by July 14 it was launched. However, rumors about the construction of this ship did not cause much concern among the northerners. They simply poisoned the ramming ship Queen of the West, the armored boat Corondelet, and the wooden gunboat Tyler to shoot the ship while it was still on the slipway. But then the Arkansas sailed out to meet them, which the southerners managed to complete just the day before. Seeing that their shells did not cause any harm to the battleship, the northerners rushed to their heels, hurrying to connect with the rest of the squadron.


The battleship "Corondelet" - the very first enemy of the battleship "Arkansas"

And on the squadron of the Unionists on this warm sunny morning ... they were drying freshly washed linen and did not expect an attack. So the southerners forced the Corondelet to run aground, which, by the way, saved him from the ramming of the Arkansas, and managed to inflict damage on two other ships.


And this is how Arkansas was depicted on the pages of the New York Tribune on July 31, 1862

Excluded "Arkansas" from the lists fleet Confederate was on August 7, 1862, after it burned down the day before, but another, much larger warship could envy his combat career lasting less than a month. During this time, he took part in four river battles, and in each of them he had to fight almost alone against entire enemy squadrons.

On the same day, when the Arkansas almost dealt with the Corondelet, he fought his way into Vicksburg, besieged by the Unionists, while passing through the formation of Admiral Farragut's squadron, which blocked it from the side of the river. It turned out that his armor made of rails could not withstand hits from heavy shells. The ship received several through holes. Losses amounted to 12 sailors killed and another 18 wounded. The section of the chimney that passed through the casemate was also pierced, because of which it was filled with smoke, and the gunners of the battleship had to get out on the deck and wait there until they could patch the hole. Nevertheless, Arkansas nevertheless reached Vicksburg, and on Farragut's squadron, 33 people were killed and another 59 wounded by shots from an armadillo.

And here are the performance characteristics of this unique ship in its own way: length - 50 meters, width - 11 meters, displacement - 800 tons, power of a two-cylinder steam engine - 900 liters. s., speed - 8 knots. It was armed with four 163 mm Brook rifled muzzle-loading guns, two 32-pounder smoothbore guns on the sides, two 203 mm Dahlgren smoothbore guns in the bow and two of the same in the stern. In addition, an eight-ton cast-iron ram was placed on his nose. The crew consisted of 230 people.

The performance characteristics of the river wheeled battleship northerners "St. Louis" for comparison with the performance characteristics of the "Arkansas". Displacement - 512 tons, length - 53 m, speed - 9 knots, crew - 251 people, armor - iron strips 64 mm thick on a thick wooden substrate (more than 70 cm). Armament - four 203-mm Dahlgren smoothbore guns, four 42-pound and six 32-pound muzzle-loading rifled guns. In 1863, the St. Louis was lost after being blown up by a mine.


Battleship northerners "Keiro". I can’t refuse VO readers to carefully consider all these carefully drawn details

On July 22, the ships of the northerners attacked the Arkansas directly in the port of Vicksburg, but unsuccessfully, although one of the cores pierced its armor. The ship was repaired and sent to Baton Rouge in early August. The northerners sent an entire squadron led by the battleship Essex to intercept the ship. Opponents met on the river on August 6, and it was then that the southerners' luck ended. Already at the beginning of the battle, the Arkansas broke the connecting rods on both cylinders of the steam engine. The ship lost its course and was thrown ashore by the current. Then the Essex approached him and began to shoot him from such an angle, in which return fire did not threaten him.

Realizing that resistance in this case is pointless, the captain of the Arkansas ordered the team to set it on fire and flee, which was done. When the fire reached the hook chamber, the ship took off into the air.


The burning battleship Arkansas

This ended his fighting career, but the war on the rivers of North America still continued.

To be continued ...
161 comment
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  1. +13
    10 January 2023 04: 55
    Thanks, I enjoyed reading it!
    1. +8
      10 January 2023 06: 23
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      Thanks, I enjoyed reading it!

      I am glad!
  2. +6
    10 January 2023 05: 24
    Then the Essex approached him.

    The strange name of the ship given by those who recently got rid of colonial dependence ...
    1. +4
      10 January 2023 06: 22
      Quote: Luminman
      Strange ship name

      In honor of his own county...
      1. +2
        10 January 2023 06: 30
        Quote: kalibr
        In honor of his own county...

        The name of the county is strange too...
        1. +4
          10 January 2023 06: 42
          They say that from the language of the Indians.
          And I take it for granted.

          PS I'm sorry, I didn't look at what kind of ship we are talking about.
          And I thought about the origin of the name "Arkansas".
          1. +4
            10 January 2023 13: 21
            Hello, Sergey! smile
            If we are talking about the Essex casemate battleship, then it had a predecessor ship with the same name.
            Here are the details.
            The incident that occurred with the American whaling ship Essex, captained by George Pollard Jr. In 1820, in the South Pacific, the Essex was attacked by a sperm whale and sank, and her crew thousands of miles from the coast were forced to seek salvation in three whaleboats. The incident inspired Herman Melville to write Moby Dick in 1851.
            1. +3
              10 January 2023 16: 22
              Hi Constantine!

              I really appreciate Moby Dick.
              Oddly enough, I would take it as a sample of printed works of a completely different nature.
              1. Fat
                +5
                10 January 2023 16: 33
                Quote from Korsar4
                Hi Constantine!
                I really appreciate Moby Dick.
                Oddly enough, I would take it as a sample of printed works of a completely different nature.

                hi Sergey. I just reread this book often. This is a great THING. Some episodes can be quoted in the same way as, for example, the Bible ...
                Mr. Melville knew the business and shared excellently.
                Sincerely.
                1. +4
                  10 January 2023 17: 55
                  I'm glad that you share the attitude to the book, Andrey.
                  The rest of Melville's stuff doesn't even come close to her.

                  And "Moby Dick" impresses with both scale and detail.
                  1. Fat
                    +2
                    10 January 2023 22: 36
                    And "characters" of course! He suddenly did a great thing...
                    If you drag one side on one side, and on the other ....
                    It turned out to be a high deed. Maybe he himself did not even expect ....
                    Type of reporting without complaint .....
        2. +10
          10 January 2023 12: 22
          Why strange?
          There are several in England. They come from the name of the Saxon tribe: Essex - East Saxons, Wessex - West, Sussex - South and Middlesex - Middle.
          By the way, I did not hear that Fomenko and his friends spoke about these names. I wonder how they will pervert them in an attempt to prove their Slavic origin?
          (Hussars, be silent!) laughing
          1. +6
            10 January 2023 14: 30
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            Why strange?
            There are several in England

            In the USA there is a county (county) Essex, it seems, in New Jersey, in the very state where England and its king were most hated ...
            1. +5
              10 January 2023 16: 29
              Well, so the king and the county, in the eyes of the inhabitants of this county, can be things not only different, but also diametrically opposed. The old name with the prefix "new", such as New York, testifies, in my opinion, to small-town patriotism, love for a small homeland, but not loyalty to state power.
              1. +3
                10 January 2023 19: 11
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Well, so the king and the county, in the eyes of the inhabitants of this county, can be things not only different, but also diametrically opposed. The old name with the prefix "new", such as New York, testifies, in my opinion, to small-town patriotism, love for a small homeland, but not loyalty to state power.

                My respect!
                Considering that originally New York, it arose as New Amsterdam (if I'm not mistaken)! laughing
        3. +7
          10 January 2023 12: 46
          Obviously, at first the settlers called it that, then they got used to it.
          In general, there are five such districts in the United States and one in Canada.
    2. +9
      10 January 2023 11: 36
      In America, then it was full of names imported from Europe - why be surprised?
      1. +4
        10 January 2023 13: 25
        Which is completely natural. smile
        The British also had ships of the same name.
        Here, for example, the armored cruiser "Essex"

        1. +3
          10 January 2023 14: 32
          Quote: Sea Cat
          The British also had ships of the same name. Here, for example, the armored cruiser "Essex"

          With these, everything is clear - this is a warm greeting from the Heptarchy ...
          1. +4
            10 January 2023 14: 51
            So they, one might say, are of the same blood, so it is not surprising if there were Germans, there would be some kind of Baden-Württemberg or Saxony-Anhalt. wink
            By the way, the name of the ship has become a tradition, the lead ship of the US aircraft carrier series was also called the Essex, and after the battles in the Pacific Ocean it was nicknamed the King of the Pacific Ocean, the series was successful.
        2. +1
          10 January 2023 20: 11
          Constant, I would venture to suggest that the Briton is named after Lord Essex or on a thin horse, in honor of the beekeeper Holmes
          1. +3
            10 January 2023 20: 38
            I like it better if in honor of the beekeeper. wink
  3. +14
    10 January 2023 05: 38
    Good morning to readers! I thank the author for an interesting story! I hope that the continuation will be just as exciting and deliciously illustrated!
    1. +7
      10 January 2023 06: 24
      Quote: Aleksey7777777
      deliciously illustrated!

      It is already ready and is being moderated. And there are many interesting photos of that time.
      1. +1
        11 January 2023 04: 54
        I am particularly struck by the "vector" graphics of the illustrations of that era. Very accurately and thoroughly drawn, even small details.
  4. +8
    10 January 2023 06: 15
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich! A busy month for Arkansas indeed.
  5. +9
    10 January 2023 08: 26
    Good morning everybody! )))
    Last night I read Ryzhov's article and all the comments on it. Even today I looked through everything so as not to offend anyone if someone else looked in. Admired - the guys steadfastly kept the formation on the historical front, and I, chattering my teeth from the cold and wrapping myself up with everything possible, could only think about my mathematics all day long, occasionally glancing at the telegrams - what's there, how is it?
    However, I start reading the second article about the "pawed geese" in the morning, and immediately the question is - the core is above the Galena's waterline.
    I looked and looked - there is a hole, but the core ... are the cores no longer round? There, close to the hole, something similar to a cylinder sticks out of the body, a short one, obviously not a gun barrel. It?
    1. +5
      10 January 2023 10: 56
      [quote = depressant] Is it?
      No. The arrow below shows where it went! You can see it there!
      1. +6
        10 January 2023 12: 52
        Hi, Vyacheslav! smile

        At first I didn’t understand either, it’s almost impossible to see the arrow if you don’t know about it in advance. And what sticks out of the side a little further and higher? Looks like a stuck projectile.

        Thanks for the article, as always it was interesting and exciting. good

        Are you planning an article about naval battles in that war? drinks
        1. +4
          10 January 2023 12: 54
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Are you planning an article about naval battles in that war?

          I do not know.
    2. +4
      10 January 2023 12: 56
      Good afternoon, Luda. love
      I, like you, was completely at a loss at first, thank you for drawing attention to this.

      I, too, get the accursed holodryga, if only I could live until spring. smile
      1. +4
        10 January 2023 14: 55
        I know, I know, Kostya, that you are just as cold as I am. What can you do, a sharply continental climate, and even the wind has risen. They say that you had a terrible temperature there, even worse than in the Moscow region. And then, sometimes, feeling how my hands and feet froze, I thought yesterday - are you alive? Remember, there was a wonderful US film about how a man was killed, and his spirit rose, walked, looked, tried to contact and did not understand what was happening to him. That's how I am - a corpse or not yetwassat )))

        It was good to fight on the Mississippi, all the States at a latitude south of Sochi. They would try to fight in our frosts, and even make a spectacle out of the war. I remember that not so long ago we conducted exercises in Sweden. The Negro was so cold that he filed a lawsuit against the US government and demanded compensation in large monetary terms for moral and physical suffering wassat )))
  6. +5
    10 January 2023 08: 57
    Quote: depressant
    There, close to the hole, something similar to a cylinder sticks out of the body, a short one, obviously not a gun barrel. It?


    Stuck core - highlighted with a red arrow
    1. +5
      10 January 2023 09: 53
      Ahh... Is that a stuck core?!?
      Thank you for the clarification )))
      Due to her blindness, she took the core for a hole in the hull. Maybe I don't see things the way they really are. For example, the first battle of "Arkansas" with "Carondelet". Picture. I looked - what is it? Ships in the desert? Stuck in the sand? You must think the water is that color, but why? If it's blood, then it's a river, flowing water, it carries away. Except under the morning sun. But somehow unconvincing.
      Pink paint as a camouflage color amused. Rather, any - from the effects of water.
      1. +5
        10 January 2023 10: 57
        Quote: depressant
        You must think the water is that color, but why?

        Mississippi is the Indian word for "Dirty River". The water is brown...
        In addition to the name "footed geese", armadillos on the Mississippi were also called "brown water armadillos".
    2. +5
      10 January 2023 13: 00
      Thanks for the arrow, Colleague. hi I just now finally figured out where the core is. smile The only question left is what sticks out of the side a little further, obviously not a part of the hull.
      1. +3
        10 January 2023 14: 13
        Quote: Sea Cat
        The only question left is what sticks out of the side a little further

        In my opinion, some kind of technological hatch. Nothing else comes to mind...
        1. +4
          10 January 2023 14: 54
          Yes, it looks somehow strange, it seems that the side trim is simply broken. request
          1. +3
            10 January 2023 14: 57
            Quote: Sea Cat
            Yes, he looks kinda weird.

            Well I do not know. I'm not good at sea...
          2. Fat
            +2
            10 January 2023 16: 06
            hi Konstantin. You just had to look for a "stuck core" and not a hole. Easily found near the waterline ... and without arrows to help.
            Sincerely
            1. +3
              10 January 2023 16: 25
              If you explain to me what sticks out in the forest a little higher and further, then at the meeting I will certainly put down. laughing
              Just don't say it's a stuck shell, other than that, nothing else comes to my mind.
              1. Fat
                +3
                10 January 2023 16: 51
                What to YOU ​​... What did I begin to explain?
                I respect you very much and sometimes I really hope that your "reading glasses" will not let you down, one of the best commentators ...
                I'm a "visual" and even when the picture is big I can find interesting details - such a peculiarity, there's nothing I can do about it ... In addition, I will say that sometimes it goes sideways for me, it's hard for me to perceive the video sequence holistically ...
                Sincerely smile
                1. +3
                  10 January 2023 17: 36
                  For YOU...


                  To ME laughing If you guessed what it is, then tell me, I'm serious. wink drinks
                  1. Fat
                    +3
                    10 January 2023 18: 44
                    I do not know. The Lord (or some other high powers) make it so that I begin to perceive, for example, your thought even before you share it... Synchronization of the type.
                    Maybe the "tunnel of reality" or maybe the "noosphere" does not always fail drinks laughing
                    1. +3
                      10 January 2023 19: 33
                      I begin to perceive, for example, your thought even before you share it ... Synchronization of the type.


                      Eh, let's sit down and have a drink... Yes drinks

                      1. Fat
                        +4
                        10 January 2023 19: 44
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Eh, let's sit down and have a drink...

                        It's not worth it - get drunk .... drinks laughing laughing
                      2. +3
                        10 January 2023 20: 41
                        No, comrades will help, and drinking without snacks is bad form. wink drinks
        2. +1
          10 January 2023 14: 58
          Maybe this is the exit of the latrine? )))
          But is it the right place?
          1. Fat
            +3
            10 January 2023 15: 19
            hi Lyudmila laughing A latrine is actually a place under the bowsprit of a sailing ship. A latrine on a modern ship is simply called that by tradition ...
            1. +4
              10 January 2023 17: 41
              A latrine is actually a place under the bowsprit of a sailing ship.
              So also sailing. And the nasal figure was called that - latrine, for the sublime covered the physiological. On steam ships, this establishment could be anywhere.
              1. Fat
                +3
                10 January 2023 20: 52
                Quote: Aviator_
                On steam ships, this establishment could be anywhere.

                Not anywhere, but where "assigned"!
                Hello, Sergey Yes
                1. +3
                  10 January 2023 21: 55
                  As the commander of the "Novik" said - Step aside! I have urgent business in the lower compartments! And galloped off the bridge. laughing
          2. +6
            10 January 2023 16: 36
            Andrew has already said this.

            In the capital city of St. Petersburg there is already a solid monument to this ship device. (they will peck) wassat



            But I don’t know how it was on the monitors, most likely they just hung the "stern" overboard and that's it. laughing
            1. +5
              10 January 2023 17: 57
              However, the Rostral Column is amazing.
              1. Fat
                +3
                10 January 2023 18: 56
                YES! And is this enough for "Prog" not to put itself on a par with sapiens?
            2. +4
              10 January 2023 20: 43
              Yes, not what you are talking about, the French architect Thomas de Thomon had in mind when decorating the lighthouse columns with rostra. True, having rethought from a man of the 19th century in his own way, turning a weapon - a ram into an elegant architectural decoration. Small "rams" are visible.
              From the Latin "rostra" - ship's nose. Noses-rams, ships taken as victorious trophies, adorned the oratorical platform in Rome. forum. Consul Gaius Menius, after the victorious end of the Latin War, established in 338 BC. e. rostra on the oratory. Following his example, Augustus added to them the spoils of his victory over Cleopatra's fleet.
            3. Fat
              +4
              10 January 2023 22: 02
              Do you remember why hemp cables hung from the ship's rostrum? Oh yeah. laughing - wipe!
              1. +4
                10 January 2023 23: 08
                Harsh marine life sad , this is not for you in civilian life, where you can do this:
                "... She got up early today, in the last rays of the month
                And, of course, she tore up the Nevsky Almanac for a wipe (c) laughing
  7. +7
    10 January 2023 10: 47
    Quote: depressant
    Picture. I looked - what is it? Ships in the desert? Stuck in the sand? You must think the water is that color, but why?


    Season.
    The Mississippi is brown with silt.
    They haven't painted entire driftwood islands yet.
    1. Fat
      +3
      11 January 2023 00: 04
      Class!
      Your comment is a work
      listen to yourself:
      Season.
      The Mississippi is brown with silt.
      They haven't drawn yet.
      whole islands of driftwood.

      good
      Thank you colleague
      ,Here you are just an artist
      This is not irony, I'm just smitten
      precise laconicism
  8. +5
    10 January 2023 11: 08
    And here are the performance characteristics of this unique ship in its own way: length - 50 meters, width - 11 meters, displacement - 800 tons, power of a two-cylinder steam engine - 900 liters. s., speed - 8 knots. It was armed with four 163 mm Brook rifled muzzle-loading guns, two 32-pounder smoothbore guns on the sides, two 203 mm Dahlgren smoothbore guns in the bow and two of the same in the stern. In addition, an eight-ton cast-iron ram was placed on his nose. The crew consisted of 230 people.

    Since the article is under the heading "History of military equipment", I will allow myself to clarify the parameters of this equipment, since the author was somewhat mistaken in some of them.
    The actual displacement of the CSS Arkansas is unknown. Design - 1200 long tons. In terms of metric tons - 1219.
    The power plant consisted of two single-cylinder horizontal steam engines, each of which drove its own propeller with a diameter of 2,43 m. The total nominal power of the power plant was 900 British horsepower.
    1. +5
      10 January 2023 11: 45
      It was armed with four 163 mm Brook rifled muzzle-loading guns, two 32-pounder smoothbore guns on the sides, two 203 mm Dahlgren smoothbore guns in the bow and two of the same in the stern.

      Here the sources differ. If we take Smith, Myron J. The CSS Arkansas: A Confederate Ironclad on Western Waters, then the armament is two 203 mm columbiads in the bow, two 163 mm converted from smoothbore Palliser system in the stern. On the sides - two 229 mm Dahlgren guns and four 32-pounder guns, two smooth-bore, two rifled.
      1. +5
        10 January 2023 12: 22
        I'm sorry, there was a mistake in the text. Instead of "two 163 mm converted from smoothbore guns according to the Palliser system" one should read "two 163 mm Brook guns", like the author of the article.
        1. Fat
          +4
          10 January 2023 14: 51
          Quote from Passeur
          I'm sorry, there was a mistake in the text. Instead of "two 163 mm converted from smoothbore guns according to the Palliser system" one should read "two 163 mm Brook guns", like the author of the article.

          hi Hello Victor, hello colleagues. "Well, otherwise, mom, mom" (c) smile
  9. +5
    10 January 2023 11: 25
    "But the Arkansas, back in April 1862, was taken to the Yazoo River, in Yazoo City, where by July 14 it was launched." Didn't understand the phrase. They took us, we see, about afloat. Completed at the wall and put into operation. Or, as an option, was the hull towed to Yazoo City, lifted onto the slipway, and, upon completion, was launched again?
    1. +5
      10 January 2023 11: 51
      It was launched into the water in April. And towed to Yazoo City in May. Moreover, towing took a long time. Started May 7th and ended May 26th.
  10. +4
    10 January 2023 12: 24
    This is how the Arkansas dangled until the southerners themselves burned it. Didn't the northerners have saboteurs? To burn early? Or was it not accepted?

    I am still indignant at how the newly rebuilt, brand new "Agile" recently burned down in St. Petersburg.
    1. +6
      10 January 2023 15: 01
      . Didn't the northerners have saboteurs?


      How were they! Trained beavers straight from Montana! wassat laughing

      1. +3
        10 January 2023 17: 09
        Even as they were!


        Hee hee hee! wassat )))
        I understand that my comment does not carry a semantic load, but I just wanted to laugh)))
        Where only there are no such saboteurs!
        By the way, I heard the conversation of the fishermen. We have round ponds nearby, beavers dragged branches to the steep banks, which eventually begin to look like a natural, just heavily cluttered flat bank. I stood on this one and failed. And then he drowned. They say there have been cases.
        1. +5
          10 January 2023 17: 42
          And then he drowned. They say there have been cases.

          But there’s nothing to climb anywhere, beavers don’t climb into gardens. laughing

          In general, the beaver is a very useful animal, you just need to know how to use it.
          1. +3
            10 January 2023 18: 01
            They have bred so much lately that the flooding of vegetable gardens occurs.

            Carl, Carl, I'm very lonely without you. I have no one to talk to or consult with.
            - I think it's a bear.
            - God bless him. We do not know how to appreciate friends in life.
            We understand their meaning only when they leave us.
            “Then I will leave.
            - And we fuss, rush about. What is it for? What is it for? It just didn't get you.
            Pshel! Have bred.
            1. +5
              10 January 2023 18: 23
              The inscription on the fence of the Board of Horticulture: "Kill the beaver - save your 6 acres!".
              1. Fat
                +6
                10 January 2023 18: 30
                Bobryatina is a specific product .... feel
            2. +6
              10 January 2023 18: 47
              "-- What kind of peacock-mavlin? Don't you see, we are eating ..." (c)

              1. +2
                10 January 2023 19: 41
                I tell my kids regularly. I totally understand genie. But the Munchausens are so persistent.
    2. +1
      10 January 2023 19: 56
      Lyudmila Yakovovlevna, you touched on an interesting topic: the war of counterintelligence "southerners" and "northerners".
      There is nothing about this in the novels, the truth is about these events: "Uncle I Om's Cabin" and "Gone with the Wind". I don’t know more books on a similar topic, but think logically: both of them should have counterintelligence.
      Perhaps someone knows more?
      1. +3
        10 January 2023 20: 54
        Perhaps someone knows more?


        Read the Bret Garth trilogy.


        And there is about espionage in the third part of the Clarence trilogy, but even without this, the books are read in one breath.
      2. +3
        10 January 2023 21: 14
        Quote from lisikat2
        There is nothing about this in the novels, the truth is about these events: "Uncle I Om's Cabin" and "Gone with the Wind". I don’t know more books on a similar topic, but think logically: both of them should have counterintelligence.

        https://america-xix.ru/civilwar/sumter-appomattox/spies.html
  11. +4
    10 January 2023 12: 53
    It turned out that his armor was made of rails.

    I want to ask everyone. The fact that flattened rails were used for blinding steamers is well known, but ... how did they do it?
    It’s just that the rails in those days were cast from cast iron, and this material cannot be forged. And I strongly doubt that ductile iron was used as the material for the rails (the technology itself was already known, but rather dreary)
    1. +8
      10 January 2023 14: 04
      Just the rails in those days were cast from cast iron

      You're wrong. From 1829 the rails were rolled from blacksmith iron, and from 1857 from Bessemer steel. And when booking the "Arkansas", the T-shaped rails did not "flatten" at all, they were fixed in a checkerboard pattern "head up, head down", because it is "striped" on more or less detailed images.

      For information - rail profiles for the entire time of their existence.

      In the first row, the profile on the far right is those with which the Arkansas was armored.
    2. +5
      10 January 2023 14: 19
      Quote: Senior Sailor
      flattened rails are common knowledge, but ... how did they do it?

      Word rail can be translated not only as a rail. It can also be a bar or a thin metal rail. It is unlikely that they removed the rails from the railway tracks for these purposes ...
    3. +3
      10 January 2023 17: 36
      Quote: Senior Sailor
      the technology itself was already known, but rather dreary)

      In one of the following articles, I'll show you how...
  12. +8
    10 January 2023 13: 15
    And Tom Sawyer at that time was somewhere around thirty years old. I wonder which side he fought on? If he married Becky Thatcher, then, probably, on the side of the southerners. And his friend Huckleberry Finn, most likely, went to the northerners ... I wonder if they participated in the battle of Memphis? Have you met?..
    smile
    1. +6
      10 January 2023 13: 27
      Mark Twain reminds me of someone...
      1. +7
        10 January 2023 13: 39
        Mark Twain reminds me of someone...

        I'm afraid to even ask lol
        maybe vice versa? feel
        1. +4
          10 January 2023 14: 37
          Karl Marx Twain? belay does not provide useful information.
          1. +6
            10 January 2023 14: 44
            No, Shpakovsky Vyacheslav Olegovich.
      2. +4
        10 January 2023 13: 56
        Mark Twain reminds me of someone...


        Really?!!! Where is the beard?! wassat
      3. Fat
        +6
        10 January 2023 15: 07
        hi Hello Anton. Your truth... Something like this Yes
        1. +5
          10 January 2023 17: 15
          Your truth...

          Well, in accordance with the topic, how can you not exclaim "Wow!" Reincarnation?
          Only Vyacheslav Olegovich has a much more energetic face.
          I would say predatory wassat )))
          Well, these are the times
          1. +2
            10 January 2023 17: 34
            This photo was taken 10-15 years ago...
          2. Fat
            +5
            10 January 2023 17: 49
            Olegovich has a different expression in his eyes - "cunning" and Twain's - "wise" ... laughing laughing laughing
            Another era fellow
            1. +6
              10 January 2023 18: 33
              Figase, Borisych, you turned!
              At the time the photograph was taken, Twain was raising an oil tycoon for charity. Estimate what kind of eyes Shpakovsky, who breeds Sechin, will have to finance a trip to the Vatican in order to write a new book ?!
              1. +3
                10 January 2023 19: 43
                I am sitting on the bunk, I am in Narofominsk.
                When you knew, ruining my life,
                That I could go out to be the Popes
                And to take, of course, you as a mother!

                It’s a pity that they threw a lasso on me at the wrong time!
                I would suck a glass and - to the Vatican!
                1. +2
                  10 January 2023 22: 12
                  I'm sitting on the bunk



                  It’s a pity that they threw a lasso on me at the wrong time!
                  I would suck a glass and - to the Vatican!
                  1. +5
                    10 January 2023 22: 32
                    In the course of penitentiary sociology, we were taught that the main meaning of the word "king" in thieves' jargon is something like the main thing in a cockerel. A sort of "senior 3,14daras". A lot has changed since then, of course, but...
                    By the way, according to the hair dryer, "circle" has a meaning similar to the word "hollow", that is, the anus, which is actively used not for its intended purpose. So the famous chansonnier was either not very versed in the thieves' vocabulary, or he didn’t choose his own drive ...
              2. Fat
                +3
                10 January 2023 21: 18
                Yes, I like ....! And if we do, great. There's been little good and tasty lately... Uh
                In short, few worthy articles. Here. laughing
                I'd tin a glass and go to the Vatican...
                So no, not enough impudence! I can still fight back, but I can beat ....
              3. Fat
                +3
                11 January 2023 00: 21
                Have you seen Puss in Boots before?
                from the saga of the poor, unfortunate troll ....
      4. +4
        10 January 2023 17: 38
        Surprisingly, it's me myself ... Only a little older. Just horror!
        1. +3
          10 January 2023 17: 44
          In this photo, Samuel Clemmens is 72 years old.
          1. Fat
            +4
            10 January 2023 20: 04
            And we that We are much younger? My older sister will be 73 this year...
            Our Vyacheslavovich is also not a cabin boy ...
            But I take it well...
    2. +6
      10 January 2023 13: 37
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      And his friend Huckleberry Finn, most likely, went to the northerners ...

      Do you think so, because he hid the Negro?
      As for me, most likely both fought for the southerners)))
      1. +9
        10 January 2023 15: 14
        Quote: Senior Sailor
        As for me, most likely both fought for the southerners

        So not interesting.
        Huck should be for northerners because:
        A tramp, for whom any change for the better is just one.
        He treated blacks normally - two.
        It is unlikely that he experienced tender feelings for his native city - three.
        I think by the age of twenty, or even earlier, he was ripe in order to dump and look for happiness somewhere else. I visited the south - I didn’t like it, he didn’t want to plow like a Negro on plantations, he was not good for overseers, he decided to go north. There turned out to be more opportunities, and when they announced the recruitment of volunteers for the war, he signed up immediately. After the war, he returned to his town, to his homeland, and became a sheriff.
        Tom Sawyer married Becky and began a successful career in law. He had something to lose, so he joined the southerners. In the war, he lost his arm and also returned to his hometown, only a little earlier than Huck. Their meeting was not joyful, especially since Huck himself immediately laid eyes on Becky, who was torn between a sense of duty towards her husband and carnal attraction to the new sheriff. As a result, passion wins and Huck and Becky become lovers. Huck offers Becky to kill Tom, but she refuses. Tom learns about his wife's betrayal, suffers greatly and hatches a plan for revenge on Huck. At this time, a gang appears in the district, led by the son of an Indian, Joe, who really wants to avenge the death of his father, and in general is extremely hostile towards whites, a sort of Indian nationalist. The gang attacks the house of the Sawyers, the one-armed Tom heroically fights back, but the forces are not equal, and then Huck comes to the rescue, who helps them fight back, while receiving a mortal wound in a duel with the leader of the gang. Before his death, Huck asks for forgiveness from Tom, they reconcile, forgive each other's offenses, and Becky admits that she is pregnant. Tom promises to raise the child as his own, since in fifteen years of marriage he had no children with Becky.
        In the plot there should also be a positive homosexual, in theory. It could have been Jim, an elderly black man, but I could not find a role for him in the plot. Although, here's what I came up with. Let's do it - he served as Huck's assistant and died heroically during a gang raid, protecting Becky with his body when the gang leader tried to rape her.
        Everything. It's time to apply to Hollywood. laughing
        1. +6
          10 January 2023 15: 17
          Everything. It's time to apply to Hollywood

          Great story line
        2. +7
          10 January 2023 15: 36
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Before his death, Huck asks for forgiveness from Tom, they reconcile, forgive each other's offenses, and Becky admits that she is pregnant.

          And everyone paints the fence together .... wassat
          1. +8
            10 January 2023 16: 41
            The last frame - one-armed Tom teaches a five-year-old boy how to properly paint a fence using the fence near Huck's grave as an example. A little older Becky looks at this scene with tenderness.
            All subtitles. The most important thing is that casting is almost not necessary - Fedor Stukov, Maria Mironova, only the role of Huck is vacant. I think Baluev would fit. smile
            1. +5
              10 January 2023 17: 08
              What can I say ... With such a final scene, the plot almost repeats the film "Pearl Harbor".
              1. +5
                10 January 2023 17: 41
                I do not apply for such a budget. Although, if they give ... persuaded, I'll take it.
                1. +5
                  10 January 2023 17: 55
                  Although, if they give ... persuaded, I'll take it.
                  "Ah, Tom! How noble you are!" (FROM) )))
              2. Fat
                +3
                11 January 2023 00: 34
                Nope, the penultimate scene close-up click: the Smith-Wesson drum leans back, a gloved hand puts a new cartridge into each chamber (detail) ... blackout ... the rider gallops towards the rising Sun ... tygdym-tygdym - dust .... fog - uncredited
                wassat
            2. Fat
              +4
              10 January 2023 22: 57
              Volume! - no answer, ... That-om! - no answer .... To-oh-oh .... To-oh-oh-m ...
              “I wonder where that boy could have gone!” Tom, where are you?
              No answer....
              Aunt Polly pushed her glasses down her nose and looked around the room over her glasses, then lifted them up to her forehead and looked around the room from under her glasses. She very seldom, almost never looked through her spectacles at such a trifle as the boy; these were ceremonial glasses, her pride ....
              wink laughing
        3. +5
          10 January 2023 16: 31
          It's time to apply to Hollywood.
          Our response to Tarantino.
        4. +6
          10 January 2023 17: 45
          How clever you are, Michael! If you weren't so busy, I'd use her. But 15 copyrights by March 1 and 2 books then hang like weights on the legs of creativity. Now I am writing, but my own conscience gnaws ... Filonia ...
          1. +4
            10 January 2023 19: 15
            Yes, what a clever girl is there, Vyacheslav Olegovich? It is not necessary to write such a lot of mind, in fact it is just a parody of all sorts of different melodramas, a few hackneyed plots, nothing more. Anton, I immediately found parallels with Pearl Harbor, although I don’t see them myself, but I don’t remember the film either. Here, write down the dialogues, describe the actions - specifically, so that the reader can imagine everything with his own eyes and believe that it could be so, yes, what good, start empathizing, yes ...
            But alas. You can’t write such things in the intervals of rest from the main work - you need to take a vacation and instead of rest, pore, puff, plant your eyesight, spoil your posture, etc. I can’t write for several hours a day - I need to immerse myself in the topic.
      2. +4
        10 January 2023 17: 42
        Quote: Senior Sailor
        As for me, most likely both fought for the southerners

        Take it, Ivan, and write a sequel. Twain's style is light, easy to imitate. It’s not a problem to type the texture from the same Gone with the Wind, and you know how to write ...
        1. +5
          10 January 2023 18: 05
          You can...
          If anyone pulls, then it is Ivan. For Twain's "sauerinia" has 4 completed stories, 2 unfinished stories and several stories. So this work is within the power of a true "alternative"!
    3. +5
      10 January 2023 13: 55
      Have you met?..


      Come here and figure out who is where. request

    4. +7
      10 January 2023 14: 53
      And Tom Sawyer at that time was somewhere around thirty years old.

      Roughly thirty. The real Tom Sawyer, whom Mark Twain met in 1863, was born in 1832. He did not participate in the Civil War.
      1. +5
        10 January 2023 14: 59
        Quote from Passeur
        Did not participate in the Civil War

        In neighboring Canada, hiding from mobilization? wink
        1. +7
          10 January 2023 15: 11
          In neighboring Canada, hiding from mobilization?

          No, since 1859 he served as a firefighter in San Francisco.
          1. Fat
            +3
            10 January 2023 15: 37
            hi T. Sawyer - fireman. Wow! I understand-a-a-yu ... Yeah. drinks fellow
            From a young age, he sold the possibilities of whitewashing fences ... An inveterate corrupt official smile
            1. +4
              10 January 2023 15: 50
              Inveterate corrupt official

              Andrey Borisovich, good afternoon!)))
              Well, why are you so, albeit with a smile.
              Not a corrupt official - an entrepreneur! This is capitalism, who will deceive whom wassat )))
              He will deceive him big and get out of the water obstacle dry, and now he is a respected person.
              It was in Tom, it was.
              1. +1
                10 January 2023 19: 39
                Lyudmila Yakovovlevna, glad to see you.
                You interested me: I'm trying to understand the essence of political events.
                Pretty exciting.
                True, many of the site's regulars have "black and white" glasses, and life is multicolored.
                Why don't they like me
                1. Fat
                  +4
                  10 January 2023 20: 13
                  The community perceives you quite adequately! and you know that the cons you got are not from me...
                  Quote from lisikat2
                  colorful life.

                  love
                  Not from me one bouquet ....
      2. +5
        10 January 2023 15: 32
        The real Tom Sawyer, whom Mark Twain met in 1863, was born in 1832. He did not participate in the Civil War.

        What about Huck's prototype Tom Blankenship?
        feel
        Quote from Passeur
        From 1829 the rails were rolled from blacksmith iron, and from 1857 from Bessemer steel.

        Thank you.
        1. +5
          10 January 2023 16: 53
          What about Huck's prototype Tom Blankenship?

          Didn't participate either. In any case, there is no documentary evidence. There is information that he was a justice of the peace. Even the date of death is not known, only some sources say that he died during a cholera epidemic.
        2. +5
          10 January 2023 16: 55
          What about Huck's prototype Tom Blankenship?


          Sure, but Huck is already sheriff. The local chronicle recorded the dramatic moments of his honorable and difficult work. belay

    5. +4
      10 January 2023 17: 45
      And Tom Sawyer at that time was somewhere around thirty years old.
      Mark Twain fought for the southerners, but escaped in time. And "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer" is almost an autobiographical thing.
      1. +5
        10 January 2023 22: 42
        Mark Twain fought for the southerners

        Stayed for two weeks in the Confederate Home Guard, militia. Did not participate in battles. His part, and with it Twain, fled as soon as they learned of the approach of Grant's troops.
    6. +2
      10 January 2023 20: 04
      Michael, are you a lawyer? Is this not copyright infringement?
      Basically, I don't see any reason why Tom Sauer shouldn't marry Becky.
      Who would they be: Tom Sauer and Hucklebere Fin?
      1. +4
        10 January 2023 21: 20
        Quote from lisikat2
        Is this not copyright infringement?

        Samuel Lengkhorn Clemens, better known by his pseudonym Mark Twain, died on April 21, 1910.
        Consequently, under Russian law, the exclusive rights to all his works expired on December 31, 1981. US copyright laws are similar.
      2. +2
        10 January 2023 21: 29
        Who would they be: Tom Sauer and Hucklebere Fin?


        With Negro Jim! laughing wassat
      3. +3
        10 January 2023 22: 35
        Quote from lisikat2
        Is this not copyright infringement?

        No way. Although I am not an expert in this matter, I can say this with confidence.
  13. Fat
    +3
    10 January 2023 16: 18
    Perhaps I dreamed, Or maybe one of my colleagues really asked about how the southerners' navy acted at sea ...
    A few years ago there was an article on the VO-history space about the "Alabama" CSS raider...
    Dear site administrators, please, at the moment when there is nothing to fill the temporary gap in the rubric, repost that article.
    With respect.
    1. +6
      10 January 2023 17: 19
      They write about CSS Alabama, for some reason, most often, although there were other, no less interesting ships in the fleet of the southerners, for example, the "ship with five lives", which was laid down as an Egyptian floating ram "Sphinx", launched as a Danish " Shterkodder", which then became the southern armored cruiser CSS Stonewall, and ended its adventurous life as the first battleship of the Imperial Japanese Navy, the Kotetsu.
      1. +7
        10 January 2023 17: 49
        So I had 5 articles on VO, according to the number of lives of this ship, about Stonewall. I started writing an adventure novel about him and .. abandoned it, there is no time.
      2. +4
        10 January 2023 17: 54
        Good evening, Vic. smile

        the first battleship of the Imperial Japanese Navy "Kotetsu".


        "Kotetsu"... There is something catlike meowing about this name. smile And what is the translation, you probably know.
        1. +5
          10 January 2023 18: 03
          Good evening! It translates very simply - "armor". Kotetsukan is an armadillo.
          1. +6
            10 January 2023 18: 30
            Lord, what prose, and I just thought ... The Japanese surprised me, there is no such thing as romantic, like "White Kotetsu in the pink petals of falling sakura" or "Thoughtful Kotetsu on the bank of a transparent stream - everything flows, everything passes "... And then right in the forehead in German - ARMOR !!! And point. Disappointed... request
            1. +4
              10 January 2023 19: 09
              For all the time, the Japanese assigned "some kind of romantic" only to destroyers built between the world wars.

              Destroyer Wakaba - "young leaves".
              Or Sazanami - "ripples on the water".
              1. +3
                10 January 2023 21: 23
                I heard that the name of the battleship "Asahi" means "Red Stone". It's right?
                1. +4
                  10 January 2023 22: 01
                  No, not true. The literal translation is rather complicated. "Asa" - morning, "hi" - day. English-language literature recommends a translation - morning sun.
            2. +5
              10 January 2023 19: 50
              Quote: Sea Cat
              Lord, what prose, and I just thought ... The Japanese surprised me, there is no such thing as romantic, like "White Kotetsu in the pink petals of falling sakura" or "Thoughtful Kotetsu on the bank of a transparent stream - everything flows, everything passes "... And then right in the forehead in German - ARMOR !!! And point. Disappointed... request

              Uncle Kostya, in Japanese (if my memory serves me right) the cat is pronounced “neko” or “nekosh”. The last option is very close to "galoshes" - not a drop of romance!!!
              1. +3
                10 January 2023 21: 08
                The last option is very close to "galoshes"


                But I didn't guess. "Nekosh" means that this is not a cat, but a CAT! laughing Don't touch the saint! laughing
      3. Fat
        +3
        10 January 2023 17: 56
        Agree! But why was the song about the Alabama and not about any other raiders?
        Boys! If perchance it may be,
        when storm of battle raves,
        By shot or shell our noble hull
        Shall sink beneath the waves,
        Yet while a plank to us is left
        'til death we will defend her;
        Facing the foe, down, down we'll go,
        But still cry "No Surrender!"

        Then sling the bowl, drink every soul
        A toast to the Alabama
        Whate'er our lot, through storm or shot,
        Here's success to the Alabama.


        Whate'er our lot, through storm or shot,
        Here's success to the Alabama.

        And of course, I welcome this addition!
        With respect.
    2. +3
      10 January 2023 17: 50
      Perhaps I imagined

      I didn’t see it, I asked if there would be an article about battles at sea, but not specifically about southerners.
      I remember the article you're talking about. Yes, now she would be here in the subject.
      1. +5
        10 January 2023 18: 13
        will there be an article about battles at sea

        Oddly enough, but there were no "battles at sea" in the full sense between the fleets of the southerners and northerners. Almost all "sea battles" are assaults on coastal facilities from the sea. And the "classic naval battle" is, perhaps, the "Battle of Cherbourg", in which as many as two ships fought, CSS Alabama and USS Kearsarge. Moreover, the "battle" took place not far from the French Cherbourg.
        1. +6
          10 January 2023 19: 23
          And the fight between Monitor and Merrimack? Although on the roadstead of Hampton, but still not on the river.

        2. Fat
          +7
          10 January 2023 19: 38
          Suppose there are lunar people, there are solar ....
          Therefore, it is easy for me with Konstantin and the author, and it is very difficult with you.
          I will never reproach you - I partially have knowledge, (it happened)
          It's very good!
      2. Fat
        +5
        10 January 2023 18: 16
        Accepted! .... And let me be called "bot" in every way - like it's not enough and so on ...
        You're right! but as always laughing
        1. +4
          10 January 2023 19: 17
          Boat (from the Dutch boot - “boat”) - in the era of the sailing fleet, any small single-masted vessel with a displacement of up to 60 tons, armed with 6-8 small-caliber guns and used to transport significant cargo. Pretty stable and reliable ship. smile
          1. Fat
            +5
            10 January 2023 20: 34
            Well, as always .... Buer (Dutch boeier) - a ship (formerly), later a light boat or platform mounted on special metal skates, designed to slide on ice and equipped with a mast with sails.
            Driving a buoy has much in common with driving a yacht, but requires special skills due to the features of management and high speed....
            The buers were still massively built by Michalo Schepotiev ...
            By the way "das boot" is a great movie!
            And just the word "bot" is nothing more than a "robot" - a mechanism in general ...
            1. +3
              10 January 2023 21: 21
              "das boot" is a great movie!

              Yes, I really liked the movie. The author of the book based on which the film was made, himself went on a campaign on the U-96 corvette captain. Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock, who, by the way, was the consultant for this film.
              1. Fat
                +5
                11 January 2023 02: 19
                Das ist ya tsum cook hollen, corvette captan. Zum Westen... See East Grossen....
                IN SHORT - a common language ... we will find and agree ..... laughing laughing
                The film is rarely luxurious, there are very few of them. When I looked, it seemed to me that lice were really crawling on the submarine guys ....
                WELL... For Gibraltar? it's toast smile Yes
                1. +3
                  11 January 2023 07: 36
                  At Christmas time, you can go beyond Gibraltar. In general, geography is a storehouse for toasts.
                  1. +4
                    11 January 2023 15: 49
                    At Christmas time, you can go beyond Gibraltar.


                    Well, if this crawls to GibrAltar, then a drink will be simply necessary! laughing drinks
                2. +5
                  11 January 2023 15: 46
                  Das ist ya tsum cook hollen, corvette captan. Zum Westen... See East Grossen....


                  1. Fat
                    +3
                    11 January 2023 16: 19
                    And that the glasses of a friend were broken .... The error went too far ..
                    laughing Sinful Yes
                    But the movie is really good...
                    1. +1
                      11 January 2023 17: 03
                      At that time, a good friend of mine owned a SD-room stall, he immediately slipped me a cassette with this film, arranged a mass viewing, and then I called a friend who served caprice in the General Staff of the Navy, it turned out that they were this film haven't seen yet. We met and I handed over the cassette, then, through a friend, the sailors thanked me for the gift. smile
  14. +3
    10 January 2023 19: 25
    Good evening everyone.
    Due to family and state circumstances, I can rarely access the site.
    So I'm sorry
    1. Fat
      +4
      10 January 2023 21: 42
      Accepted. In all seriousness. Thank you for your work and human care.
      When it's all over, we'll ask forgiveness from the guilty,
      You don't have to ask for forgiveness
      With respect.