Military Review

Soviet bomber Su-24 will soon retire

92
The Su-24M front-line bomber is still the main striking force of the Russian tactical aviationbut his days are already numbered. By 2020, the bulk of these bombers will be replaced in combat units with a new Su-34 bomber. The next accident of the Su-24M aircraft, which occurred on October 30 in the Chelyabinsk Region, made us think about the prospects for updating the fleet of Russian front-line bomber aircraft. Currently, the combat effectiveness of this bomber is supported, among other things, by modernization programs, in particular, to the Su-24M2 variant.

To date, the Su-24M front-line bomber retains its reputation as the most damaged aircraft of the Russian Air Force. This year alone, the Russian army lost 2 aircraft of this type. And in total, from 2006 to 2012, the Russian army in non-combat conditions lost 12 aircraft of this class, while, since 2000, the Su-24 bombers did not fall into the ribbons news agencies in connection with accidents only in one year - 2005. Most often, the pilots ejected and remained alive, but there were also casualties.

Su-24 is a Soviet, and later a Russian front-line bomber with a variable sweep wing. The release of the aircraft in various variants continued until the 1993 of the year; in total, about 1400 bombers were launched. The aircraft is designed to deliver rocket-bombing attacks on the enemy day and night, in simple and complex meteorological conditions, including at low altitudes, with targeted damage to ground and surface targets. As of 2011 year, the average age of this type of bombers as part of the Russian Air Force was 25-27 years. Initially it was supposed to replace 60-70% of these bomber with new Su-34, and the rest to upgrade to the level of Su-24М2, but after a series of plane crashes it was decided to completely write off these aircraft to the 2020 year. Also in 2012, information was published about the complete withdrawal of the Su-24 bomber from the armed forces of the Republic of Belarus.
Soviet bomber Su-24 will soon retire
Su-24М2 front bomber

Su-24 was able to reach maximum speed in 1 700 km / h, the combat radius of the machine at supersonic speed is 560 km. The aircraft was armed with a six-barreled 23-mm automatic cannon (500 ammunition), and also had 8 suspension points for guided and unguided missiles, bombs (free-falling and adjustable), additional cannon containers, and also “Fantasmagoria” target designation containers. As of 2012, the year in the structure of the Russian Air Force is up to 224 Su-24 bombers (including 40 Su-24М2). Another 51 aircraft is in service with the Russian Navy.

Su-24 has always been considered quite difficult for piloting a machine, the aircraft has a high level of accidents. Only during the flight test complex was the 14 Su-24 and Su-24M lost. After the adoption of the machine for weapons, the number of accidents with his participation reached 5-6 per year. According to the former Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Air Force Viktor Kota, at the 1998 year, the Su-24 was the most emergency aircraft of Russian aviation, in total about a hundred combat vehicles were lost.

Modernization of the bombers to the level of the Su-24М2 allows extending their service life by 12-15 years. In the course of modernization, a new navigation system is installed on the aircraft, which, by integrating data from various sources, is capable of ensuring a sufficiently long flight of the machine at an altitude of 30-50 meters (briefly at an altitude of 10-30 meters), as well as avionics. The nomenclature of the weapons used was also expanded, and its system included high-precision weaponssuch as the X-59M and X-31P missiles. According to the nomenclature of the used weapons, the front bomber Su-24М2 is close to its modern changer Su-34.
Su-24M front bomber

As a result of upgrading to the Su-24М2 version, the aircraft does not undergo external changes, while inside the bomber, modern compact digital systems and multiplex channels of aircraft belonging to the 3 + generation take the place of the 4 generation. Changed and cockpit, as well as the composition of weapons. When upgrading the machine, the main attention was paid to “pulling up” the front-line bomber to the modern level and extending the period of its use. During the modification, the operational life of the aircraft increases by 15% compared to the base Su-24M, and the combat effectiveness immediately by 30%.

During the modernization of the impulse radar warning of a collision with the ground, "Relief" has undergone a serious revision. Now it provides information on the rounding of the terrain, not only horizontally, but also vertically. Accordingly, to obtain new data, the bomber sighting and navigation system, which received the name PNS-25 Tiger-2, was also upgraded. Modernization of the Tiger-2 sighting and navigation system and the Relief radar made it possible to significantly reduce the minimum altitude of the bomber to 30 meters, and in emergency cases to 10 meters. With a supersonic speed and such a low altitude, the front bomber becomes almost invulnerable to enemy ZSU and MANPADS. It is almost impossible to stop the plane with standard radar systems and to stop it in such a flight.

The Orion pulse-Doppler radar has also been modernized, which now provides significantly more surface mapping capabilities using the 2 mode: the basic average Doppler mode of the beam, as well as the new high mode using a synthesized aperture. That is, to receive a more accurate "map" can be involved channels LTPS "Kaira." In addition, the radar station was built target designation station and radio intelligence, which allows the use of anti-radar missiles without the use of overhead containers "Fantasmagoria." After modernization, the detection range of large sea and land targets of the type “aircraft carrier” or “destroyer” has grown to 150 km, “home” or “bridge” to 90 km, “armored vehicles” to 30 km. The Orion station has a mechanical scan area of ​​elevation + 26 –15 degrees, and in azimuth + –60 degrees.
Su-24М2 front bomber

The laser-television sighting station (LTPS) "Kaira" also underwent a significant modernization, the characteristics of the LTPS increased by 30%. It began to use a color TV channel, and the increase in the television channel was brought from 8-multiple to 23-multiple. In addition, it was possible to improve the ability to determine the contours of objects of small-sized targets against the background of rather complex terrain folds. The viewing angle of the laser and television channels in elevation is + 12 -50 degrees, in azimuth + 6 -140 degrees. Modernization of LTPS allowed to ensure the possibility of early recognition and detection of small targets at a distance of 10 km. Modernization of "Kaira" allowed the use of a front bomber against enemy armored vehicles in all weather conditions.

However, the modernization of a rather complicated machine in piloting did not become a panacea. The previous MAKS Aviation and Space Show, held in August 2011, Russian Air Force Commander Alexander Zelin noted that the Air Force hopes to acquire 120 new Su-34 front-line bombers, of which 5 squadrons will be equipped with 24 machines each. This aircraft has already begun to enter combat units - currently 2 contract for the supply of data aircraft. The first of them was concluded in 2008 year. This contract provides for the supply of 32 bombers to the troops in 2009-2013. At present, the Russian Air Force received 16 of such bombers, and by the end of the year, after transferring the next batch from the factory, their number will reach 26 units.

Already in the 2013 year, the implementation of the second major contract, which provides for the supply of 92 bombers to the troops in the period from 2013 to 2020, will begin. At the same time, it is not exclusive that in the coming 2-3 of the year, plans to acquire front-line bombers Su-34 will be adjusted upwards - aircraft of this class are vital for the Russian Air Force. Based on the given pace of construction, it can be assumed that by 2025, the number of Su-34 in the troops can reach 180 aircraft. In this case, they will completely replace front-line bombers Su-24М and М2 in the troops, the most modern of which will be sent to the storage bases.
Sukhoi Su-34

If we compare the new Su-34 tactical bomber with its predecessor, it can be noted that the new aircraft has significantly increased capabilities for using high-precision weapons systems (has 12 suspension points), and is also more resilient due to the use of booking vital assemblies. A larger fuel reserve in combination with more economical engines provides the Su-34 a greater range - more than 2 000 km. at cruising speed and over 1 100 km. when flying at supersonic speeds, against 1 000 and 560 km. from its predecessor. With air refueling, the combat radius of the use of the Su-34 increases to 3 000 km, which allows this bomber to deliver bombing strikes from Russian territory to targets in Eurasia, North Africa, and the adjacent seas.

Information sources:
-http: //rus.ruvr.ru/2012_11_02/Su-24-sovetskie-bombardirovshhiki-uhodjat-na-pensiju/
-http: //tutavia.ru/publ/37-1-0-274
-http: //www.gudok.ru/incident/? pub_id = 446757
-http: //ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D1%F3-34
Author:
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  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 November 2012 08: 07
    +7
    Based on the given pace of construction, it can be assumed that by 2025, the number of Su-34 in the troops can reach 180 aircraft. In this case, they completely replace the front bombers Su-24M and M2 in the troops

    Those. about 450-460 machines replace with 180? Oh, she ...
    1. Lacoste
      Lacoste 7 November 2012 08: 34
      +8
      Better 180 new than 450 old.
      1. Civil
        Civil 7 November 2012 09: 38
        +17
        Lacoste,


        better than 450 new than 450 old!
        1. datur
          datur 7 November 2012 13: 45
          +4
          Civil,
          better than 450 new than 450 old! - and even better than 500 new than 450 old wink
        2. Botanologist
          Botanologist 7 November 2012 20: 23
          +2
          Given the fact that the army is not new at all, we have to rearm in all directions. So all the armaments that the Soviet Union created for decades will not work in any way, to exchange 1 for 1 by Russian forces in 10 years.
          In general, 34 is a cool car, it is very good that it goes to the troops.
      2. VAF
        VAF 7 November 2012 12: 11
        +7
        Quote: Lacoste
        Better 180 new than 450 old.


        Wrong ..... here I agree more with Civil drinks
    2. Greyfox
      Greyfox 7 November 2012 08: 34
      +5
      Where does the number 450 come from?
      As of 2012, the Russian Air Force has up to 224 Su-24 bombers (including 40 Su-24M2). Another 51 aircraft is in service with the Russian Navy.

      In addition, part of the Su-24 (for example, in the Black Sea Fleet) is changing to Su-30. Yes, and the naval can place an order separately from the Air Force and they will not be included in 180 (I would like to hope so ....)
      1. Sokol peruna
        Sokol peruna 7 November 2012 09: 29
        +2
        Another 51 aircraft are in service with the Russian Navy.

        After the dispersal of naval aviation of the Navy, only the 43rd OMSHAP based on the Guards air base, which includes 18 SU-24 +4 Su-24MR, remained from attack aircraft. And only because of the fact that it is located in Ukraine.
        Greyfox
        In addition, part of the Su-24 (for example, the Black Sea Fleet) is changing to the Su-30.

        For this, a signed agreement between the Russian Federation and Ukraine is necessary. And the info on the purchase of 12 Su-30SM for the Black Sea Fleet did not seem to be confirmed.
        Yes, and the naval can place an order separately from the Air Force and they will not enter 180 (I would like to hope so ....)

        I can not. Shock MA of the Navy does not exist now.
        1. VAF
          VAF 7 November 2012 12: 15
          +1
          Quote: Sokol Peruna
          I can not. Shock MA of the Navy does not exist now.


          Absolutely, +! MRA as a distant one. So and frontline more .. does not exist. only in the Guards crying
        2. Talgat
          Talgat 8 November 2012 16: 28
          +1
          For this, a signed agreement between the Russian Federation and Ukraine is necessary.
          So sign up!
      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 November 2012 09: 36
        +3
        Quote: Greyfox
        Where does the number 450 come from?

        Serial production of Su-24 aircraft of all modifications was completed in the 1993 year. A total of about 1200 aircraft were built, of which more than 770 - Su-24M and its modifications. By the end of 1998, Russian front-line aviation had 365 Su-24 and Su-24M bombers, as well as 80 Su-24MP scouts and Su-24MP EW aircraft.
        http://vpk.name/news/12631_vvs_rf_poluchili_chetyire_modernizirovannyih_bombardi
        rovshika_su24m2.html
        And Wiki claims that Su-24MP we still had 100.
        On the other hand...
        If you believe the sources like http://www.armstass.su/?page=article&aid=103639&cid=25%3C/ref%3E, then there are only 124 dryers left in the air force. crying
        Then it’s clear why the numerical data on the Air Force are classified with us. To hide the fact of reducing the air force to completely ridiculous values ​​...
        1. urzul
          urzul 7 November 2012 09: 55
          +3
          Andrei, what do you want if 10 technology can be said to have stood on the ground for years, one of the three sides was collected so that it could take off. This is especially evident in the dates of incidents with Su-24 - a break from 1989 to 2000 year
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 November 2012 10: 11
            +3
            ursul, what do I want? Powerful and capable aircraft in general and the air force in particular. 124 Su-24 as a starting point in these concepts does not fit ...
            In my unenlightened opinion, in order to talk about full-fledged front-line aviation (and taking into account the fact that Su-24 also performed intelligence functions), we need at least 34-300 of these same 350s.
            1. urzul
              urzul 7 November 2012 10: 24
              +2
              I don’t think that after 20 or 25, purchases will stop once, Well, the current ones will be written off too early.
              К
              The command of the Russian Air Force intends to accelerate the program of modernization and renewal of the fleet of front-line bombers Su-24, the Izvestia newspaper writes with reference to a representative of the Air Force. The modernization is expected to take not 15 years, as is currently envisaged, but ten. This means that by 2020, 60-70 percent of Su-24 bombers will be replaced by new Su-34s, and the rest will be upgraded to the M2 version.
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 November 2012 10: 35
                +4
                Well, yes, it remains only to hope.
                And all because there is no clarity in matters. There should be a long-term policy in terms of equipping the aircraft, scheduled for 30-40 years ahead (no less than the life cycle of the weapon) If, for example, we want to have 350 Su-34 as part of the Air Force with a life of 30 years, then we need to produce at least 12 cars a year and even more, given the fact that some will break (pah-pah-pah) will fail "from inevitable reasons at sea" even in peacetime. And with this in mind, plan both production capacity and the number and training of cadets-pilots, etc. etc .... to resolve issues with basing, plan exercises and their costs, and so on and so on.
                Maybe someone in the commander-in-chief has all this calculated and calculated, but only .... hardly, to be honest
                1. VAF
                  VAF 7 November 2012 12: 24
                  +2
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Maybe someone in the commander-in-chief has all this calculated and calculated, but only .... hardly, to be honest


                  You compete very competently, just very +! drinks
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 November 2012 12: 27
                    +3
                    Thank:))) drinks
                    1. VAF
                      VAF 7 November 2012 12: 45
                      0
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      Thank you:


                      How can I, +! I especially liked about the training of new pilots .. then where to get them? And cook ??? After all, the car is very strict at the take-off and landing stages, there are more restrictions than on the instant-31st! recourse
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 November 2012 13: 07
                        +8
                        Ideally - to recognize the move VVA them. Gagarin to Voronezh with a corruption scheme and "return everything back" am In principle, I believe that this is possible - not so much time has passed ...
                        Well, then - to estimate the required number of graduates on ALL TYPES of aviation and look at the throughput of what remains after the efforts of our reformers. First of all, to revive where there are still prerequisites for this, and if it’s not enough .... Now if it isn’t enough, then you will have to, spitting and swearing, expand the existing one and create a new one in place of the recently destroyed old
                      2. FID
                        FID 7 November 2012 13: 17
                        +8
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Ideally - to recognize the move VVA them. Gagarin to Voronezh with a corruption scheme and "return everything back"

                        And the Zhukovsky Academy, which at first was merged with the Gagarin Air Force and transferred to Chkalovskoe? No, it does not stick together. You can’t get the teaching staff. And, as I understand it, Sergey is talking about pilots who graduated from a flight school (they have an academy ahead). They are simply not there. After all, ordinary flight schools that trained young lieutenants, future aces and sniper pilots closed (under the guise of reform). And those lieutenants who graduated from schools quickly wrote reports about the cancellation and went to the Civil Air Fleet, where the shortage of flight personnel is simply disastrous (take my word for it). There are not enough catastrophic flight schools for both civilian and military. That is the main question. And they will build planes, who will fly?
                      3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 November 2012 13: 32
                        +5
                        Quote: SSI
                        No, it does not stick together.

                        I believe that you know better. It's a pity.
                        Quote: SSI
                        And, as I understand it, Sergey is talking about pilots who graduated from a flight school (they have an academy ahead).

                        I understand, but you see, what's the matter - if we want to revive the system of training pilots, we definitely need some kind of an extra-class center like the aforementioned academy, even if it itself will not train combat pilots. That is to say (sorry if it sounds trite) the quintessence of professionalism is needed. And relying on the knowledge and experience of "the men of scientists, the theory and practice of those who have surpassed" to build a new system of education. If the professorship lacks practical skills (I do not want to offend anyone in any way, I just have no idea what kind of people they are) - involve practitioners. But such a "think tank" is absolutely necessary
                      4. FID
                        FID 7 November 2012 13: 48
                        +4
                        Of course you need! But time flies, flies, and so far nothing is moving off the ground.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        But such a "think tank" is absolutely necessary
                      5. Alan
                        Alan 7 November 2012 18: 57
                        +2
                        Oh, and you’re great to say, it’s nice to read. I hope smart people and in the Moscow Region still remain, and not only here laughing
                      6. SSR
                        SSR 7 November 2012 15: 25
                        +3
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        the quintessence of professionalism is needed.

                        + plus. moreover, it’s a very fat plus .. after all, this very quintessence ... this is the fundamental connecting core for many years and generations .. from this quintessence are born ... I can’t even express ......
                        According to Nina Semenova, head of the department of globalization and international cooperation in the field of science and innovations of the Russian Research Institute of Economics, Politics and Law in the scientific and technical field, head of the HSE department, at least 1990 thousand people left Russia in the 100s with degree, and the core of the Russian scientific diaspora (as it calls “the totality of people, Russians by origin, working and living abroad for many years”) is no more than 35 thousand people.
                      7. VAF
                        VAF 7 November 2012 14: 05
                        +4
                        Quote: SSI
                        And they will build planes, who will fly?


                        Seryoga, we .. will be "invited" ... back .... lol

                      8. FID
                        FID 7 November 2012 14: 11
                        +5
                        Quote: vaf
                        Seryoga, we .. will be "invited" ... back ....

                        And fly, where are we going!
                      9. Botanologist
                        Botanologist 7 November 2012 20: 35
                        +1
                        I sincerely hope that the view from your cabin will be different. Yes, and the view of the cabin - too.
                      10. VAF
                        VAF 7 November 2012 13: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Now, if not enough, then you have to, spitting and swearing, expand existing and create new in place of the recently destroyed old


                        Most likely it will be like this .. how do you say + what ... but "Zhugarin's academy" that's all ... finish crying
                      11. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 November 2012 13: 33
                        +3
                        Very sorry.
                      12. mazdie
                        mazdie 7 November 2012 21: 49
                        +3
                        I think when everything starts to recover you will be invited to TEACH the young, and for a good salary. I would really like that.
                      13. Botanologist
                        Botanologist 7 November 2012 20: 28
                        +2
                        For a long time, the reformist impulse will come to us. Moreover, this applies not only to Taburetkin. We generally have reformers in the government, starting with DAM - like dogs.
                        And, unfortunately, like dogs uncut. sad
            2. VAF
              VAF 7 November 2012 12: 18
              +1
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              In my unenlightened opinion, in order to talk about full-fledged front-line aviation (and taking into account the fact that Su-24 also performed intelligence functions), we need at least 34-300 of these same 350s.


              why uninformed? A very competent look, taking into account our territories and the proposed theater +! soldier
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 November 2012 12: 53
                +4
                The point is small - to convince the MO of the correctness of my calculations laughing
                1. VAF
                  VAF 7 November 2012 13: 20
                  +4
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  to convince the MO of the correctness of my calculations


                  if you provided calculations justifying the need to purchase furniture made of English oak. yes even a century ago from the 17th and 18th and at the same time "calculated" a "normal rollback" for them .. then yes .. they would have accepted it with a bang for them that the BBC, that the BBC ... the same "sounds"! lol
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 November 2012 14: 08
                    +3
                    Quote: vaf
                    if you provided the calculations. justifying the need to purchase English oak furniture.

                    Nah, it's too complicated for me. Here is to calculate the economic benefits of the withdrawal from the MO of a certain amount of furniture oak, not English, but domestic bottling itself - yes, I would take it laughing
                    1. VAF
                      VAF 7 November 2012 15: 09
                      +4
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      from the withdrawal from the MO of a certain amount of furniture oak, not English, but not domestic bottling itself - yes, I would take it


                      Well, I think that 90 percent of forum users quickly rushed to your aid fellow I'm in the forefront! +! soldier

                      You have the same picture from the guys from the Guards ..... good
            3. bobon_
              bobon_ 7 November 2012 15: 30
              0
              .... changing conditions ... as an alternative - in the literal and figurative sense, I propose to consider the A-10! ... how old, but still in service! ... in this case, it is still worth considering aspects of work attack aircraft — the availability of electronic warfare equipment and support for fighter aircraft — as “aviation gaining air superiority” is now expressed. but the question is. who will fly? as indicated in this thread - much sharper ...
          2. FID
            FID 7 November 2012 10: 14
            +5
            I can add from my own experience. Even after the aircraft was in the fuel and energy sector, when passing heavy forms, after 2-3 months on the ground - failures were like from a cornucopia. And not only for avionics, but also for iron. And after a year of standing ....
            1. klimpopov
              klimpopov 7 November 2012 10: 43
              +6
              the most modern of which will be sent to the storage base.

              We know these storage bases, scrap metal in half a year. But not about this, as the author repeats the spell "emergency" all the time in the article in each paragraph - maybe so, but for such a quantity and such a service life, if you spread it out for the entire operation time, then everything is not so sad, I would call it a complex plane and in service, including some of the planes are worth.
              Replacing with new ones is good of course, but 6 will still have to fly on the 24s (and most likely more), and they are already loudly announcing its cancellation, that is, they will not give money for modernization, really for what, but then at least think about the pilots.
              1. FID
                FID 7 November 2012 11: 04
                +4
                Very sound thought, very sound!
              2. VAF
                VAF 7 November 2012 12: 28
                +2
                Quote: klimpopov
                We know these storage bases, scrap metal in half a year.


                Klim. Greetings, well, the bases are different bases .... in Rzhev, Vozdvizhenka.Krasnodar. in short, at factories .. more or less normal, if only the car for 2-scheduling "does not go. then yes .... its" derbanat "in full!
                1. klimpopov
                  klimpopov 7 November 2012 12: 46
                  +3
                  Greetings! Well, here’s even take cars, a couple of months and that's it, kerdyk, how many ZILs are lying in the woods (I’m not specifically specifying now). The planes are the same with the planes, they won’t allocate money for their storage, they will steal, in general, if the car is for conservation it’s a verdict, but according to 24, Dad says it’s a very capricious car, and he doesn’t forgive anything to the pilots no service staff ...
                  1. VAF
                    VAF 7 November 2012 13: 29
                    +3
                    Quote: klimpopov
                    and on 24th, Dad says a very moody car


                    That's right, your dad says .... the only plane with a minimum speed limit of 450 km / h on a wing of 16 g and at the same time, this same speed is the maximum speed of flaps. Which, with everything else, comes from electric circuits. and not hydraulics, so you always have a hand on the button and watch that there is no asynchronous release.

                    Well, a bunch of other things .....

                    And so the author is not right .... mode A was always on the locator, so with proper use it was possible to land at a visibility of 0 to 0 at any airfield or section of the road without any RTS of the airfield and use the director mode.

                    On the contour. all heights of the 10-30-50 type are only on the "hands" (in the director mode by PPV), and in the "automatic" only 200 meters, because. below 130 meters, the automatic take-off is triggered (the stabilizer is immediately 6 grams for pitching and forward upward).

                    Always the regime was only in height, and not in the course, and it still does not exist ....

                    The speed limit of M-1.35 is now at high altitudes and 1240 km / h at low altitudes.

                    About a tactical radius of 560 km / h. and even on supersonic .. it's generally ... "song" lol

                    and so on .....
                    1. FID
                      FID 7 November 2012 13: 39
                      +4
                      Quote: vaf
                      in the "machine" only 200 meters, because. below 130 meters, the automatic withdrawal is triggered (the stabilizer is immediately 6 grams for pitching and forward upward).

                      Yes, everything remains. Imagine, on passenger airplanes, N = 130 m (on the RV) - this is the height of the autopilot. Flyers will not wait for this height (5-10 s depending on the vertical speed), turn on the AP and enjoy the views. But also at the landing, up to 130m - an automatic machine (it is possible even to compress the bow, but not all airports are equipped with 3-xs), and then an automatic withdrawal system if you click ....
                      1. VAF
                        VAF 7 November 2012 14: 27
                        +2
                        Quote: SSI
                        include AP and enjoy the views.


                        That is why they often have emergency situations on landings. accustomed only to the AZP to go, but what would be the most .. on hand, as expected ... let "uncle plow"!

                        Well, about takeoff, this is generally a song .... 5-10 m / s vertical and AP "press2 practically above the bolt ..... yeah .... we can't live like that lol

                      2. FID
                        FID 7 November 2012 15: 15
                        +2
                        5-10 vertical ... No, you’re naughty, sometimes they still ask on the ground until 20-30, on 130 they turn on the echelon, but when the path approaches the echelon height and the path breaks, then an overload of up to +1 jumps - it's on civilian aircraft. But fuel economy and premiums from the airline.
                      3. VAF
                        VAF 7 November 2012 15: 48
                        0
                        Quote: SSI
                        No brother naughty, they until 20-30 sometimes ask more on earth,


                        "Poor" passengers. lol although on Yaks and Carcasses with an upper stabilizer, the same convertible moment, God forbid, can be easily driven upright .. up to the exit to the second mode.

                        Although ..... 20 meters ... like in a high-speed elevator .... almost wink

                        Here on such a ... ride ..... that would make a difference ...... wink

            2. VAF
              VAF 7 November 2012 12: 26
              0
              Quote: SSI
              Even after the aircraft is in the fuel and energy sector, when passing heavy forms, after 2-3 months on the ground - failures are like a cornucopia


              Seryoga, hello, absolutely central, +! after the flyby, a log of comments ... there weren’t enough pages recourse

              And after the "raskrnsservatsiyu" so generally ..... no wonder overflights are planned only during the day and in the PMU and not below the level of the deputy commander!
              1. FID
                FID 7 November 2012 12: 59
                +3
                Quote: vaf
                Seryoga, hello, absolutely central, +! after the flyby, a log of comments ... there weren’t enough pages

                And after the "raskrnsservatsiyu" so generally ..... no wonder overflights are planned only during the day and in the PMU and not below the level of the deputy commander!

                + Great, Serge! I knew that you would definitely appear on the 24th! I wish you health and good luck !!
                1. VAF
                  VAF 7 November 2012 13: 43
                  +1
                  Quote: SSI
                  I knew that you’ll definitely appear on the 24th


                  Well, how could it be without it ... such a "swallow" began to be buried. only "defeated" Poghosyan's "Hussar" at last and began to put "Hephaestus" and .. on you .... gathered to write off ????

                  And what are they going to fight on ???

                  Here is a fresh M2 ... this year! fellow

                  1. FID
                    FID 7 November 2012 13: 50
                    +3
                    Handsome man! The fly did not sit!
                    1. VAF
                      VAF 7 November 2012 16: 03
                      0
                      Quote: SSI
                      Handsome man! The fly did not sit!


                      Seryoga, I've prepared a "film" for you ... as if on the topic of "violations2 of the ILE during takeoff ....... how could it have ended ... you understand crying

                      1. Wedmak
                        Wedmak 7 November 2012 16: 15
                        +2
                        Did he hit the ground with wheels for GDP? Or is it from the engine like that?
                      2. VAF
                        VAF 7 November 2012 16: 31
                        +3
                        Quote: Wedmak
                        Did he hit the ground with wheels for GDP?


                        they don’t say that, + drinks and .. it would be more correct to sound like this - "went down" to the ground, but ... thank God, I didn't get there .... left the ramp (there were no traces on the ground), but the ground had already reared from the flame and jets of afterburners, since at Beckfire they are 15-17 meters long.

                        For clarity, the photo of the night take-off, though the quality is not very. and so it is visible in the flame all 5 circuits (rings) smile

                      3. Wedmak
                        Wedmak 7 November 2012 16: 34
                        +2
                        Thank you, but it certainly looked awful. By the way, yes, I wanted to ask, where did such rings come from? Sometimes even during the day they are noticeable, especially on fighter jets.
                      4. Wedmak
                        Wedmak 7 November 2012 16: 52
                        +2
                        And, I found it — compaction surges due to cyclical changes in the velocity of the gas stream. smile Google rocks!
                      5. VAF
                        VAF 7 November 2012 17: 08
                        0
                        Quote: Wedmak
                        By the way, yes, I wanted to ask, where did such rings come from? Sometimes even during the day they are noticeable, especially on fighter jets.


                        How would it be easier for you to explain recourse .. well, in short, the rings in the afterburner flame are the so-called shock waves formed due to the periodic change of speed in the gas stream when interacting with atmospheric air. +drinks

                      6. FID
                        FID 7 November 2012 16: 33
                        +3
                        Yes, I didn’t hurt, but drove behind the strip on the ground, summer is good and dry ...
                      7. VAF
                        VAF 7 November 2012 16: 58
                        0
                        Quote: SSI
                        and drove over the strip on the ground,


                        Seryoga, there the trace was from the left carriage, so there was only 3 meters in total, but by the time the commission arrived, the tracks were only in pairing
                      8. FID
                        FID 7 November 2012 16: 32
                        +4
                        What are they crazy? I misunderstood, and what arrow did they have? After all, the motors now need to check what they grabbed at such a take-off. And where do such reckless people fly?
                      9. VAF
                        VAF 7 November 2012 16: 56
                        -1
                        Quote: SSI
                        What are they crazy?


                        This is just in time for your comment about 20-30 meters of vertical. Installed by "citizens" and so on about savings and bonuses.

                        Quote: SSI
                        And where do such reckless people fly?


                        didn't you recognize? In Shakalovka, July 2008 wassat

                        Quote: SSI
                        I misunderstood, and what arrow did they have?


                        everything is normal there is -20 gr, 30 flaps would not come out, and they would immediately notice a preliminary examination.

                        Quote: SSI
                        After all, motors now need to check what they grabbed at such a take-off


                        Everything is extremely banal .... training of young replenishment 9 removal of young kk with balance) - summer. Hot, MK175 (remember you increased the butt end by 500 meters towards the garrison?), And so the old taxiway straight from the fighter parking lot to the left, well and turned down (550 meters down the runway), and then .. show the capabilities of Backfire (it’s good that the take-off weight was normal 110 tons, otherwise ... 100% of the earth’s mouth would have gained)
                        Well, here’s how you say .... in order to save money, in Geevéfovsky ... without stopping at the execution and with the ignition of afterburners during the run .... I saw the result ....

                      10. FID
                        FID 7 November 2012 18: 26
                        +4
                        Yes, the Civil Air Fleet is resting, although ... There was a video on the network like Il-86, somewhere in Arabia it sat without a chassis. They, you see, have forgotten to let them out. I had an objective record, interesting. Or the case of Tu-154 of Dagestan Airlines ... They took off from Vnukovo, but they did not include the pumping in the supply tank. We reached the train and began to get their motors up. Only the 3rd stayed for a few minutes. From the first call to Domodedovo missed, almost across the strip sat .....
                      11. FID
                        FID 8 November 2012 08: 01
                        +2
                        So, they lost 400 meters of the strip ...... if immediately from taxiing
                  2. PLO
                    PLO 7 November 2012 13: 52
                    +2
                    By the way, they say that the new Su-30SM will replace the old Su-24 (without M) in the aviation of the Black Sea Fleet in the Guards.
                    it's true?
                    1. VAF
                      VAF 7 November 2012 14: 48
                      0
                      Quote: olp
                      new Su-30SM will replace the old Su-24 (without M)


                      Oleg there are such "rumors", but no more than. Su-30SM is not yet in fact, and when will be ... recourse
                      And in the 43rd regiment, while the Su-24MR remain and simple "teshki" are changed to Su-24M2, though it is not clear which Gusarovsky or Gefestovsky ones, because. originally Hussar was M2. and Hephaestus is still Su-24M, well, as with the Tu-22M3M, the same story ... what

                      By the way, rare pictures of MR-ok "work" from the Guards ..... flying over a NATO frigate in the Black Sea ...

                    2. VAF
                      VAF 7 November 2012 14: 54
                      +4
                      Quote: olp
                      new Su-30SM will replace the old Su-24 (without M)


                      Oleg there are such "rumors", but no more than. Su-30SM is not yet in fact, and when will be ... recourse
                      And in the 43rd regiment, while the Su-24MR remain and simple "teshki" are changed to Su-24M2, though it is not clear which Gusarovsky or Gefestovsky ones, because. originally Hussar was M2. and Hephaestus is still Su-24M, well, as with the Tu-22M3M, the same story ... what

                      By the way, rare pictures of MR-ok's "work" from Gvardeisky in 2008 ..... flying over a NATO frigate in the Black Sea ...
                      1. Ustin
                        Ustin 7 November 2012 17: 37
                        +2
                        I have to give a couple of this month, while I don't see any special problems, except for "paper" ones. For the next year, maybe if only the "inhabitants of heaven" did not change anything, but here, alas, nothing depends on the plant.
                      2. VAF
                        VAF 7 November 2012 17: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Ustin
                        For the next year, maybe if only the "inhabitants of heaven" did not change anything, but here, alas, nothing depends on the plant.


                        Well, what can you wish for? + Only good luck and calm and normal planned work, without "dergatni" and ... "reformations"! drinks
                    3. VAF
                      VAF 7 November 2012 18: 12
                      +1
                      Quote: olp
                      will replace the old Su-24 (without M) in the aviation of the Black Sea Fleet in the Guards.


                      While the "veterans" are still in the ranks, + soldier







                      1. PLO
                        PLO 7 November 2012 19: 55
                        +2
                        But are there any unambiguous external differences between the Su-24M, Su-24M2 (Gusar) and Su-24M (Hephaestus)?
                      2. VAF
                        VAF 7 November 2012 21: 49
                        0
                        Quote: olp
                        unambiguous external differences between the Su-24M, Su-24M2 (Gusar) and Su-24M (Hephaestus)?


                        Practically none ... only the inscription on the Nefest air intake and the logo

                        Here is Hephaestus, the logo immediately behind the tail number ....



                        Here is the M2 Hussar ....




                        The leading pair of Su-24M2, driven by the su-24M

                      3. 77bor1973
                        77bor1973 7 November 2012 21: 27
                        +4
                        The guys immediately write off everything this is nonsense, amers A-10 fly and fly and no one thinks to write them off. As for the high accident rate, the aircraft is the most massive in the Air Force and the most exploited - who does not fly he does not fall ...
                      4. FID
                        FID 7 November 2012 21: 40
                        +4
                        Quote: 77bor1973
                        amers A-10 fly and fly and no one thinks to write them off

                        This is a very true remark. And the Warthog is no less, and maybe more, an emergency plane, but it is being modernized and modernized ....
          3. VAF
            VAF 7 November 2012 12: 17
            +1
            Quote: urzul
            Well, what do you want if the equipment for 10 years can be said to be on the ground, one of the three sides was collected so that it could take off


            Andrey. So from all over the hardware part it was + .... since the 90s, there are planes everywhere ... "donors"! crying
      3. VAF
        VAF 7 November 2012 12: 13
        0
        Quote: Greyfox
        changing to Su-30


        To do this, they still need to be tested and adopted, and then try to replace them!
    3. VAF
      VAF 7 November 2012 12: 10
      +1
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Those. approximately 450-460 cars will be replaced by 180? Oooh ..


      Hi Andrey! Something you multiply counted 450 pieces? + wink

      Actually, two times less ... on the fingers of two hands you can count the places of basing!

      And the plane, for all its complexity, it’s too early to write off “for scrap”.
      to date, the only machine (well, except for the su-34s of course), which is able to use all means of TSA day and night and in any conditions.

      In general, the article contains a lot of "lapses" on the technical capabilities of the aircraft.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 November 2012 12: 26
        +5
        Sergey, welcome!
        Quote: vaf
        Something you multiply counted 450 pcs? + Wink

        Yes, I got excited - all the time I forget that as of 1998 it was so many ... The Commander-in-Chief generally stated that on the wing - only 124 (but not including the Su-24MP)
        However, I strongly disagree with considering the need for aviation based on its current state.
        Quote: vaf
        And the plane, for all its complexity, it’s too early to write off “for scrap”.

        Yes, it’s understandable, but in 2020-2025 the newest aircraft will already be for 30 ...
        1. VAF
          VAF 7 November 2012 12: 48
          +2
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          However, I strongly disagree with considering the need for aviation based on its current state.


          absolutely in the "hole"! +! lol

          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          it’s understandable, but in 2020-2025, the newest planes will already be over 30 ...


          Well, the first one under 20 it will definitely be ..... so you need to increase that .. production I mean, then it will already be possible to talk about some reduction in something!
        2. Bronis
          Bronis 7 November 2012 12: 55
          +2
          Military Ballance year in 2010 wrote about 550 Su-24 of all modifications (reconnaissance plus). About 200 of them are in storage. The rest are in combat units of the Air Force and Navy. Total 550 -100 (MP) and - 200 (just Su-24 (not M) in storage) = 250 vehicles - 50 naval vehicles = 200. Total in the Air Force no more than 200 vehicles. But really, most likely, less. After all, how much is in flightable condition is a question. And cannibalism of spare parts lasted at least 10-15 years. So 124 pcs - this is quite real, or rather 123 ...
          If Su-34 is purchased in the 124-180 area - This is even not bad.
          The question is only with scouts (maybe after all, drones will finish in 5-7 years) and the Navy Aviation. Especially questions arise on the latter. What will be her fate ... Tu-22M, it seems, she has already been taken away ...
    4. studentmati
      studentmati 8 November 2012 02: 44
      +1
      Very sad article! Before you retire, create a guaranteed successor advantage! And the pilots and their families? Times have changed! DO NOT DESTROY WITH SHOULDER!
  2. Letun
    Letun 7 November 2012 08: 52
    +4
    The construction of modern aircraft is of course great news, but their number is depressing as always. Well, it’s understandable that, let’s say, with Georgia 180 cars will be enough above the roof, but if a global conflict arises? News then we all watch what we know in the world.
    1. Lucky
      Lucky 7 November 2012 13: 22
      +1
      In the global war, other arguments will fly !!! this amount is not enough, but enough to protect the country!
  3. snek
    snek 7 November 2012 09: 39
    +3
    Soviet bomber Su-24 will soon retire
    In the light of recent accidents, only one thing can be said: it's time
    1. Splin
      Splin 7 November 2012 11: 00
      +2
      Do you think the age of the cars is to blame? In 2009, the new Mi-28, 8 months ago, the Ka-52. Maybe you should look for the root cause in another?
      1. VAF
        VAF 7 November 2012 12: 49
        +1
        Quote: Splin
        Maybe you should look for the root cause in another?


        And they don’t want to just talk about it ... it seems like ... not accepted +! bully
    2. VAF
      VAF 7 November 2012 12: 32
      +1
      Quote: snek
      In the light of recent accidents, only one thing can be said: it's time


      no Nikolai, very early, very ..... we’ll stay without pants! soldier
  4. patriot2
    patriot2 7 November 2012 10: 20
    +2
    About front-line bombers the following proverb is suitable: "less is better." Therefore, it is better to have 180 pieces. newest Su-34 than 400 pieces. obsolete and crumbling Su-24, but a comparison of the performance characteristics of these machines suggests that the modernization of the Su-24 is a step back (if soberly, without the "love" of aviators for this aircraft). Therefore, the best is the enemy of the good. Give the Air Force more Su-34!
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 November 2012 10: 38
      +5
      Quote: patriot2
      The following proverb is suitable for front-line bombers: "less is more, but better"

      Recently I read about special forces (I got out of my head, which, in my opinion, are combat swimmers, but my memory changes something) So, to the question about the norm of cartridges for shooting ranges, the answer was: "As much as needed to achieve the required result."
      That front-line aviation should be exactly as much as needed to achieve the desired result, and you can even a little more - the supply pocket does not pull and does not attack from the rear.
      1. Lucky
        Lucky 7 November 2012 13: 25
        +2
        To make this stock, you need to take money somewhere, and then also keep it in good condition
  5. david210512
    david210512 7 November 2012 11: 05
    0
    long time ago but soo 34 is not enough like that until 2020
    1. Lucky
      Lucky 7 November 2012 13: 25
      +1
      If everyone drops, I think 1000 will be built! 1
  6. white_f
    white_f 7 November 2012 12: 26
    +2
    300 machines at least, and PAKFA 300 pieces more, for greater reliability.
  7. chenderoni
    chenderoni 7 November 2012 12: 52
    +2
    but I think that we need a completely new car. that is, su 24 must evolve one generation up and not a deeply remade su 27 (34)
  8. Comrade1945
    Comrade1945 7 November 2012 19: 38
    +1
    A good plane of course ... but it's time and honor to know, as they say!
  9. flanker7
    flanker7 7 November 2012 22: 36
    +1
    I think that all the troubles from sloppiness in the process of operation / maintenance. Su 24 is still O-GO-GO !! You just have to do everything on time and the "cone" will not be lost. Of course the Su 34 is better, but dear ones, why compare aircraft with a 30-year age difference ...
  10. KRAVEN333
    KRAVEN333 10 November 2012 21: 09
    +1
    It’s time, especially if you recall the last accident.