Military Review

"Gods of War" in a special operation: discoveries and disappointments

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"Gods of War" in a special operation: discoveries and disappointments
Source: youtube.com



When did we start counting guns?


Artillery in a special operation is the most dangerous enemy and a priority target for attack. Even air defense systems are not as critical as howitzers and MLRS on both sides of the conflict. For the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the presence of artillery makes it possible to partially offset the lack of tactical missile weapons and army equipment. aviation.

By February 24, the parties to the conflict approached with a gigantic and very peculiar imbalance. The Russian army, which American analysts attribute in terms of power to the second line of the world ranking, has the largest artillery arsenal.

According to the globalfirepower.com website, there are 7 towed guns (I wonder how it was possible to count trunks so accurately from across the ocean), 571 self-propelled guns and 6 missile systems. Quantitatively, the Russian army according to these parameters has no equal in the world.

Now about the Ukrainian artillery.

The ground forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are traditionally one of the strongest in the defense structure. Suffice it to say that the army ranks 24th in the globalfirepower.com ranking, but in terms of the number of artillery systems for various purposes, it is in 6-7th place. Last year, Ukraine counted 2 towed artillery pieces, 040 self-propelled guns and 1 missile systems of various classes. This is an impressive power without exaggeration.

To this arsenal, it is necessary to add the artillery of Western countries, which was registered in the units of the nationalists after February 24th. From open sources it is known about the supply of at least 330 gun systems of various calibers. The most popular were 155-mm guns, such as M777 towed howitzers, PzH 2000, M109 self-propelled guns of various variations, Zuzana 2, Caesar, AHS Krab, self-propelled TRF-1 and FH-70. The Czech Republic added several 152-mm barrels to this list - 20 Dana self-propelled guns and an unnamed number of outdated D-20 howitzers. In the same package of Czech assistance, self-propelled 122-mm "Carnations" and more than twenty RM-70 multiple launch rocket systems.

There are also quite exotic specimens in Ukraine, for example, 130-mm M46N1 hull guns from Croatia. NATO caliber, along with 155 mm, is represented by 105 mm L119 guns (36 pieces from the UK) and 36 M119 howitzers from the USA. The pinnacle of officially declared deliveries are the HIMARS/MLRS missile systems, which turned out to be an unpleasant surprise for the Russian army, especially the rear arsenals.




Destroyed "Peonies" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Source: Telegram

A reasonable question arises - how much of all this diversity has been destroyed at the moment?

Not daring in any way to refute the statistics of General Konashenkov, let's turn to Western OSINT intelligence officers from Oryx. Based on photo and video evidence, they counted 79 towed guns lost, including 20 M777 howitzers. It is worth emphasizing that not all guns are out of action forever - some are subject to restoration, for example, at Czech repair bases.

The biggest losses, although not fatal, were with self-propelled artillery - 90 vehicles were hit and captured, of which 48 were listed as destroyed. Western technology is used very carefully - according to Oryx, losses are calculated in units. Several explanations are possible here.

Firstly, the installation crews and command staff are formed from the elite of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Secondly, the nationalists make full use of the range of these installations (primarily PzH 2000), which complicates the detection of positions and suppression.

Thirdly, the fire is conducted after a thorough reconnaissance of the enemy's positions, excluding the danger of being hit by return fire. Simply put, the Armed Forces of Ukraine operate in strict accordance with the statutes.

And finally, the fourth reason is that the Ukrainians carefully guard and erase all evidence of the defeat, and even more so the destruction of scarce NATO equipment. The Western military-industrial complex reacts painfully to defamatory materials - after all, PzH 2000, Caesar and AHS Krab are important goods on the international market. The image of this technique has been built for more than one year and cannot be destroyed by the careless attitude of the nationalists.


105mm L119 from UK. Source: Telegram

Among the destroyed equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine there are traces of 22 killed MLRS, two damaged and eight captured. Unfortunately, this list does not contain evidence of damage to HIMARS / MLRS systems - the reasons for this situation were mentioned above. Separately, it is worth repeating that the number of hit and destroyed artillery systems can be much higher, since it is far from always possible to obtain objective evidence of the destruction of equipment.

Despite the fact that the recorded losses of nationalists in artillery seem insignificant, the Armed Forces of Ukraine experience a chronic shortage of both weapons and ammunition. Shooting out tank guns from closed positions has become quite commonplace. On the one hand, this partially eliminates artillery hunger, on the other hand, it complicates position detection due to the flat trajectory of the projectile.

An analytical review of artillery in the vastness of the special operation would be incomplete without mentioning individual reports from the Western expert community. Some of them deserve attention. Of the latter, the work of the Forbes publication is curious, which shows the ratio of weapons of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the Russian army.

Artillery systems are conditionally divided into several ranks - short-range (5-10 km), medium-range (20-35 km), long-range (35-50 km), system of volley fire and MLRS (volley fire systems) and long-range system (more than 100 km). Forbes believes that Russia has a total advantage in missile weapons, more than twofold in MLRS, fourfold in medium-range systems and a threefold advantage in short-range.

But in artillery with a range of 35–50 km, the advantage is on the side of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, to a greater extent due to the artillery of NATO countries. Russia has only 203mm Pion/Malka in this segment, which lack precision-guided munitions.

In this regard, it is difficult to disagree with the conclusions of Forbes, and this should become one of the vectors for the future development of Russian artillery.

Tactics and strategy


During the eight years of the war in Donbass, it was the artillerymen who became the most combat-ready units of the ground forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Even for terrorist shelling of the civilian population, it turns out, skills and competencies are needed. Taking into account the fact that the artillery of the LDNR was also not silent, the Ukrainian "gods of war" by February 24 were a formidable force.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine managed to successfully integrate the Krapiva artillery fire control system, as well as the saturation of combat units with Starlink satellite communication terminals. Most of the 25 thousand dishes delivered to Ukraine from Elon Musk serve military purposes. The combination of "drone - Starlink - streams of Western intelligence" allows you to make quite modern and high-precision even out of outdated D-30 howitzers weapon.

In the first months of the special operation, such nomadic artillery groups caused a lot of trouble for the Russian army and the LDNR. Again, all these skills have been practiced in advance and repeatedly since 2014 under the strict guidance of NATO instructors. Another sign of the use of Ukrainian artillery was the widespread deployment of guns in residential areas - this caused both unnecessary casualties and significantly complicated the detection of guns.








Timely destroyed enemy artillery is the key to a successful special operation. Source: Telegram

At a fairly high level, the artillerymen of the LDNR showed themselves, who also honed their skills on the nationalists for eight years. However, unlike the enemy, the fighters of the republics did not have long-range artillery and modern reconnaissance equipment. Often, the maximum caliber that the people's militia worked with was a 122-mm howitzer. In the Russian army, on the contrary, there was the whole possible range of artillery pieces, but there was no necessary combat experience.

At the same time, at the initial stages of the special operation, artillery was generally assigned a secondary role - tanks, aircraft, cruise missiles and special forces should have prevailed in rapid breakthroughs.

When the time came for the famous summer crushing of the enemy with an artillery shaft, important features were revealed. First of all, the weakness of the artillery of the battalion level. In fact, the commander has only 120-mm mortars with a limited effective range. In this case, the most important targets are located at a distance of 10–12 km.

To attract artillery to priority targets, regimental and divisional artillery had to be brought in, which was often accompanied by unnecessary loss of time. But it is at the battalion level that the main events in the theater of operations unfold, and it is here that the commander must have an effective means of suppressing the enemy. The 120-mm mortar does not always cope with this task.

A feature of the conflict was the widespread use of counter-battery weapons. Ukrainian forces have traditionally had the initiative in this area, largely due to greater experience in the application. The Russian forces had to learn from their own mistakes - to reduce both the time of the fire raid and the time to deploy firing positions. At the same time, the Ukrainian front is large, and one can still see positions that artillerymen have not left for days, if not weeks. Hundreds of shell casings scattered around are clear evidence of this.

The 100-mm anti-tank gun MT-12 "Rapier" experienced an unexpected renaissance. For a long time it was believed that this was a dying gun - it could only break through a tank with great luck. But now the Rapira is quite effective when firing along a flat trajectory - fortunately, NATO counter-battery radars are not able to track the place of the shot. Probably the most famous Russian artilleryman, State Duma deputy Vitaly Milonov, and now a senior gunner sergeant, serves in the NVO zone just on the Rapier.


State Duma deputy Vitaly Milonov, now a senior sergeant-gunner of an anti-tank artillery battery with the call sign "Gustav", near his 100-mm anti-tank gun MT-12 "Rapier" in the Donbass. Source: Telegram channel "Military Informant"

Now about the high-precision cannon and rocket artillery of the Russian army, the use of which has become a real revelation of the special operation.

It’s worth starting with the fact that Russia was actually at the origins of corrected projectiles. The technique of the first generation - we are talking about shells "Centimeter" - for the first time in a combat situation was used in Afghanistan. But in Ukraine, Russian precision weapons stalled.

There are several reasons.

First of all, insufficient stocks of Krasnopol shells and Smelchak mines, as well as the high cost of each item. There is a feeling that the entire NZ of this equipment was used up by the summer. Serial production of 300-mm 9M544/549 guided missiles (analogues of ammunition for HIMARS/MLRS) began shortly before the start of the special operation, and the industry simply did not have time to saturate the troops with these products.

Of particular note is the 152-mm Krasnopol semi-active laser homing system as the most promising in the Ukrainian theater of operations. It is immediately worth deciding that the previously adopted scheme, when special forces highlight the most important targets behind enemy lines, is completely inapplicable in a special operation.

In a situation of hostility of the local population, the numerical superiority of the enemy, as well as the high urbanization of the territory, spotters become almost suicide bombers. Satellite correction systems are ideal in this situation, but so far there are no such equipment in the troops. About ten years ago, they worked out a scheme with target illumination with a laser from a drone. This made it possible to work on objects hidden by uneven terrain and buildings, and not endanger the lives of spotters.


This is the export version of the Granat-4M target illumination laser carrier drone. Export! Source: missiles.ru

The industry offered the Rubezh-20M drone (radius - 70 km, operating time - 6 hours, payload - 6 kg) and the Granat-4M complex with a gyro-stabilized platform that allows highlighting a target at a distance of up to 2,5 km. The latter was even adopted in 2013.

In St. Petersburg, STC JSC built Orlan-30, which, together with Granat-4M, was tested in Syria. According to the developers, carriers of the illumination laser (especially the small-sized Orlan-30) are very difficult to shoot down from the ground, both with guns and missiles. Even a typical application scheme was developed - a height of 500–1 meters, an illumination range of no more than 000 meters.

The situation in Ukraine shows that Krasnopol was prepared and tested not at all for modern warfare. It's one thing to shoot individual terrorist tanks in the desert, and quite another thing to fight a high-tech army equipped with electronic warfare and effective air defense. Sometimes it’s easier for the command to release a couple of packages from the Grad MLRS at the target than to mess with the Krasnopols and Daredevils. Such is the specificity, and it has to be reckoned with.
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  1. hagrid
    hagrid 24 December 2022 04: 55
    -7
    Explain how a tank with a closed fire can shoot along a flat trajectory?
    1. alekseykabanets
      alekseykabanets 24 December 2022 06: 08
      +13
      Quote: Gagrid
      Explain how a tank with a closed fire can shoot along a flat trajectory?

      Do you think this is a technically impossible task? Even in the Second World War they used such shooting.
      https://vm.ric.mil.ru/Stati/item/262641/
      1. Vlad2012
        Vlad2012 24 December 2022 09: 35
        -6
        During the war, they fired from rifled guns, and now from smooth-bore guns in which an HE shell with a stabilizer. It's like shooting far from the "boot" or from the Thunder - the projectile blows away with the wind.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 24 December 2022 14: 37
          +3
          Quote: Vlad2012
          It's like shooting far from the "boot" or from the Thunder - the projectile blows away with the wind.

          The wind blows EVERYTHING, the question is in the amendment. But a tank shell is much more massive than active-rocket grenades, where you can chop firewood with a stabilizer pen!
          1. Vlad2012
            Vlad2012 24 December 2022 16: 15
            0
            The wind blows everything to varying degrees. The influence of the wind cannot be fully taken into account. At one distance, wind corrections for the same "Rapier" are two to three times greater than those of the D-30 and 120 mm mortar
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 24 December 2022 17: 46
              +2
              Quote: Vlad2012
              At one distance, wind corrections for the same "Rapier" are two to three times greater than those of the D-30 and 120 mm mortar
              Let me not believe it, you definitely screwed up with the 120 mortar. 600 m / s projectile versus 350 m / s mines cannot react to the wind like that. A 122 mm projectile weighs more.
              By the way, what is it? What did you jump to the D-30, did you compare 125 mm with a 73 mm long grenade?
              1. Vlad2012
                Vlad2012 25 December 2022 09: 56
                0
                See shooting tables. Compared when he said that they both suck compared to rifled shells at a distance. The same waste. Otherwise, we would have smooth-bore divisional guns.
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 25 December 2022 14: 49
                  +4
                  Quote: Vlad2012
                  See shooting tables. Compared when he said that they both suck compared to rifled shells at a distance. The same waste.

                  You don’t even need to look, because a 120 mm mine is launched from a SMOOTH barrel at a reduced speed and in such a trajectory that the wind stupidly acts on it twice as long as on the projectile. Oh yes, the mine has STABILIZERS.
                  So I think that you are also screwing up about the correction tables. And you probably won't be able to.

                  Quote: Vlad2012
                  Otherwise, we would have smooth-bore divisional guns.
                  Do you take into account the fact that a rifled projectile is noticeably cheaper?
              2. The comment was deleted.
        2. militarist63
          militarist63 25 December 2022 00: 44
          +3
          During the war, they fired from rifled guns, and now from smooth-bore guns in which an HE shell with a stabilizer. It's like shooting far from the "boot" or from the Thunder - the projectile blows away with the wind.
          Is it you yourself hypothetically ..., did you come up with it on the couch, or do you have some personal experience of serving in tank troops ..., tank shooting ?! wink
          Read at your leisure PST-74 (Regulations for firing from tanks, put into effect in 1974 by Order of the Commander-in-Chief of the Ground Forces No. 116). Namely, Chapter 5 of these rules "Shooting indirect fire", where section B describes shooting from closed positions! Here read
          1. Vlad2012
            Vlad2012 25 December 2022 09: 41
            -4
            That was funny! First, you drown for the benefit of empirical knowledge, then you ask to read something, that is, to obtain knowledge in a rational way. Where's your couch, smart guy?
            As for your opus, it would be better if you showed modern tables for firing tank guns. Where there are amendments for shooting from closed positions. And of course, the dispersion of shells when firing. It is desirable to compare it with that of "Carnation".

            Let's go further. A couple of years ago they tried to shoot from tanks from closed positions during exercises and concluded that it sucks. Technically and economically. Publication of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
            "The last indications on this topic were contained in the 1970 Ground Artillery Fire Control Manual2 and the 74 Tank Firing Rules (PST-1974)3. Then this method of combat use of tanks was abandoned, recognizing firing from tanks with PDO as ineffective ."
            "a bad artillery battery turned out from a tank company, which confirmed the validity of the refusal to fire from tanks with PDO in the 70s of the last century."

            https://vm.ric.mil.ru/Stati/item/262641/

            There is also such Murakhovsky V.I. who not so long ago wrote a post in the Telega about this. And you can also read.

            Of course, if you are able to acquire knowledge in a different way than personal experience. And you will personally go to check their statements by shooting from a tank :)
            1. militarist63
              militarist63 26 December 2022 01: 16
              +8
              Where's your couch, smart guy?
              My "sofa", in more than 20 years of service in the Troops, among other things, in the tank!
              A couple of years ago they tried to shoot from tanks from closed positions during exercises and concluded that it sucks
              They tried to shoot - a fucking argument! As Mao Zedong used to say, "To learn how to swim, you have to swim!" And then they tried it ....)) Look at the tank biathlon, the selected (best) crews perform, trained, fired many times with a standard projectile on headmistresses ... So what? Often, not all targets are knocked down, but sometimes even 0! And here, when you haven’t practiced this type of shooting for many years (purely because of the problematic organization), do you want to try and make everything go well?
              The latest guidance on this subject was contained in the 1970 Ground Artillery Fire Control Manual2 and the 74 Tank Firing Rules (PST-1974)3. Then this method of combat use of tanks was abandoned ...
              Yes, just then, you are deeply mistaken (the one you quote deceived you)! In 1990 (under the decline of the USSR) new rules for firing from tanks (PST-90) came out. There, in the rules themselves, there really is no chapter "Firing by indirect fire", but there is only "shooting by a unit with direct and semi-direct fire". But we open the very beginning of the rules, and there in the introduction it is written this:

              Those. PST-90 everything that was in PST-74 was canceled, but Chapter 5 "Indirect fire" (together with PDO shooting) was completely left in force! Fuck it, if, as you say (quoting some publication of the RF Ministry of Defense), the 70s refused to shoot from the PDO ... These are the official rules of the USSR Ministry of Defense of 1990, introduced by Order of the Commander-in-Chief of the SV ...! Or is the "writer" of your "edition of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation" not aware of PST-90? Or did he study it completely inattentively? ;-)) The publications of the RF Ministry of Defense are good then! ;-)
              I note that when PST-90 came out, I just served in a tank regiment and read it in a "freshly baked" form!
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 24 December 2022 13: 05
        +3
        And where did you get the idea that from "closed firing positions" they fired with a flat trajectory? belay Guns (cannons), as a rule, have a certain elevation angle ... with such a maximum elevation, the trajectory will no longer be flat! A flat trajectory is possible when firing "direct" fire!
        1. militarist63
          militarist63 25 December 2022 01: 23
          +3
          And where did you get the idea that from "closed firing positions" they fired with a flat trajectory? belay Guns (cannons), as a rule, have a certain elevation angle ... with such a maximum elevation, the trajectory will no longer be flat! A flat trajectory is possible when firing "direct" fire!
          Dear, you wrote something !!! laughing Just some nonsense you have! lol On the one hand, write correctly - "at such a maximum elevation, the trajectory will no longer be flat", because the tank can lift the gun as much as possible less than the upper limit of the elevation angle adopted for flat shooting (20 degrees) ... And at the same time write
          And where did you get the idea that from "closed firing positions" they fired with a flat trajectory?
          But what about from closed positions, the tank will fire, it can be direct fire ... laughing hills and other obstacles will be cut through, closing the goal ??! wink
          From closed positions, the lot of the tank is only flat and shoot!
          By the way, why did you put closed firing positions in quotation marks?
        2. ada
          ada 25 December 2022 02: 20
          +3
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          ... fired with a flat trajectory ...

          Let's clarify, "fire" firing - type, type of firing, corresponding to the nature of the flight of the projectile in the air according to trajectories - characteristics of the parameters of the set of flight elements - types of trajectory.
          Definitions:
          "... MOVEMENT OF THE PROJECT IN THE AIR
          ... The measure of the steepness of the trajectory is the magnitude of the angle of incidence. The larger the angle of incidence, the steeper the trajectory.
          Trajectory with an angle of incidence less than 20° is commonly called sloping, and the trajectory with the angle of incidence
          more than 20 ° - steep.
          Shooting, at which the trajectory turns out to be sloping, is called flat (lower trajectory).
          Shooting, at which the trajectory turns out to be steep, is called mounted (medium trajectory).
          Mounted shooting at elevation angles of more than 45 ° is called mortar (upper trajectory). ..."
      3. militarist63
        militarist63 25 December 2022 00: 50
        +6
        Do you think this is a technically impossible task? Even in the Second World War they used such shooting.
        Alex, why go so far? The rules for firing from tanks (PST-74, PST-90), approved by the Order of the Commander-in-Chief of the Ground Forces, in our country firing tanks from closed positions was provided for until the very collapse of the USSR ... I don’t know further.
    2. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 24 December 2022 06: 15
      +12
      Quote: Gagrid
      Explain how a tank with a closed fire can shoot along a flat trajectory?

      At the maximum range of km 11-12, this is quite possible, even with a native vertical angle of 15+ degrees, in the old instructions, to increase the vertical angle, it was recommended that the tank drive onto an earthen ramp.



      as well as the saturation of combat units with Starlink satellite communication terminals.
      "Borgshchik" will punish, punish!! But he won't punish! This "B-schik" turned out to be a wildly expensive profanation! It turned out he was looking for WiFI ROUTERS, and not a terminal and even an antenna! Khikhly are stupid, they can’t do without them.

      The article as a whole is sensible, but this thesis is not very good:
      Even air defense systems are not as critical as howitzers and MLRS on both sides of the conflict.

      Therefore, the long-range ukroart operates quite calmly, because the videoconferencing at ultra-low altitudes and only over the LBS is confidently working.
      1. KCA
        KCA 24 December 2022 07: 42
        -3
        Does the wifi router work on a different frequency and using a different protocol than a terminal, smart, tablet or laptop? Miraculously, these devices can be turned into a WiFi router by pressing a couple of buttons.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 24 December 2022 14: 29
          +3
          Quote: KCA
          Does the wifi router work on a different frequency and using a different protocol than a terminal, smart, tablet or laptop? Miraculously, these devices can be turned into a WiFi router by pressing a couple of buttons.

          Miraculously, almost all of this can hold the grid along the wires ...
      2. hagrid
        hagrid 24 December 2022 14: 15
        0
        Depending on the conditions of the area. Hills, forests get in the way
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 24 December 2022 14: 35
          +3
          Quote: Gagrid
          Depending on the conditions of the area. Hills, forests get in the way

          What? If direction finding, then anything seems to interfere with Hogweed.
          And if it’s shooting, then tanks don’t hit like that every day, and even a 15-degree grove or a hill will completely allow a projectile to be thrown. A closed position is not always a trench above the ears, often it is a line between the gun and the enemy.
          1. hagrid
            hagrid 24 December 2022 14: 59
            +2
            It's not about the direction finder. It's just that the answer didn't stick to the post I was trying to comment on.
      3. bayard
        bayard 24 December 2022 22: 21
        +8
        Quote: Vladimir_2U

        At the maximum range of km 11-12, this is quite possible, even with a native vertical angle of 15+ degrees, in the old instructions, to increase the vertical angle, it was recommended that the tank drive onto an earthen ramp.

        Somehow, in the summer of 2015, a Ukrainian tank, having run into a "bump", fired up to 30 shells (HE) in Donetsk, which fell quite heaped in the area of ​​​​Panfilov Street. Those shells flew over my head, and at first I could not understand what kind of "beast" was flying - the trajectory is flat, the speed of the projectile, the explosions are powerful, and the sound is like a mine (rustles). The arrivals were still going on, and on YouTube, already drunk Sumerians posted a video of how they ran into a bump, completely drunk with a roar, firing at Donetsk ... and even watching arrivals from a neighboring bump.
        So they are quite capable of hitting tanks from closed positions.
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        The article as a whole is sensible

        Practical, but without analysis and proposal of measures to overcome the backlog in high-precision long-range guns and guided projectiles for them.
        The fact that "Krasnopol" is now put on stream is certainly good, but long-range guns for them ... there would be "Coalition-SV" at least a division, with distribution by battery for counter-battery combat. A certain number of them were released for testing in the troops, and so I would like them, along with the freshly released Krasnopols, to come here. With attached means of reconnaissance and target designation.
        But these are still half measures - in the current conditions, the serial production of "Coalitions" is unlikely to be established in favor of the mass modernization of the Msta-S self-propelled guns ... And it has a range to fight NATO long-range combatants ... not enough.
        But there are Malki.
        There are and they work. And their range is quite suitable for themselves ... But there are no high-precision shells for them ...
        And the guns are.
        Moreover, the "Malki", having an extremely low rate of fire and unprotected during firing, the calculation, is not very suitable for counter-battery shells with conventional shells - I barely had time to shoot, when they not only shot at you, but also covered you. So for the sake of efficiency, especially in counter-battery shooting, they absolutely need guided (or corrected) ammunition. I don’t know if such work was carried out, if there were developments left, and how quickly all this can be obtained and implemented in metal, but this must be done as an emergency and as a matter of priority. With such shells, "Malki" will sparkle with SUCH colors ... which now cannot be depicted in words. With such a caliber, with a 100 kg projectile weight, yes, with an accuracy of up to meters, and with proper target designation ... Moreover, the range of such guided projectiles will increase ... I think up to 50 km. exactly . We have enough such guns in service and storage, so that work on a guided projectile will justify itself a hundredfold.
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Videoconferencing at ultra-low altitudes and only over LBS is working confidently.

        And aviation needs guided munitions in commercial quantities, then it will be possible to iron the operational rear of the enemy (and precisely) with full-weight cast iron without putting the aircraft at risk.
        In the meantime, we have the fact that NATO staffs have skillfully used the niche we lack in long-range high-precision artillery, and thus successfully neutralize our superiority in the number of barrels and shells.
        By the way, the other day, literally, Iran showed its new folding-wing guided bombs ... it would be nice to get something like that for their aviation.
    3. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 24 December 2022 13: 09
      -4
      May there be no flat trajectory when firing "from a tank with a closed fire..."!
    4. Alexey Lantukh
      Alexey Lantukh 24 December 2022 14: 58
      +5
      Moreover, in the Second World War, even heavy machine guns were fired along a flat trajectory. I read the memoirs of the front-line soldier Shumilin (Vanka-Company). If anyone is interested in the truth of the war, read. In my adult life, I met only three truthful books about the Second World War. And they were all written by veterans. Just in the search, type Vanka-company, Shumilin.
      1. Vlad2012
        Vlad2012 24 December 2022 16: 27
        +1
        Only the sight (mount for the panorama that came with the kit) that allows such shooting to make such shooting aimed was no longer put on Maxims at the very beginning of the war
        1. Alf
          Alf 24 December 2022 18: 14
          +3
          Quote: Vlad2012
          stopped putting

          They stopped RELEASE, not USE. They shot, although rarely, for such shooting you need a professional machine gunner, and not a hastily prepared one.
      2. Yaroslav Tekkel
        Yaroslav Tekkel 29 December 2022 21: 43
        0
        The British, by the way, even now regularly shoot like that.
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. ARKA-1985
      ARKA-1985 2 January 2023 15: 32
      0
      of course, it makes no sense to compare warm with long - to lump together two completely different ways of firing.
  2. hagrid
    hagrid 24 December 2022 04: 56
    +4
    Data on destroyed are given only for foreign samples?
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 24 December 2022 05: 02
      -4
      Quote: Gagrid
      Data on destroyed are given only for foreign samples?

      hi What's up! The author said that Kanashenkova does not refute ...... It's just that foreign samples are closer to the body, there are fewer losses.
    2. alekseykabanets
      alekseykabanets 24 December 2022 06: 04
      +2
      Quote: Gagrid
      Data on destroyed are given only for foreign samples?

      Data on Konashenkov are voiced regularly, and you can listen to them yourself. But what losses the enemy admits, for example, I have not heard before.
  3. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 24 December 2022 04: 58
    -10
    Shooting from tank guns from closed positions has become quite commonplace. On the one hand, this partially eliminates the artillery hunger, on the other hand, complicates position detection due to the flat trajectory of the projectile.
    belay belay Give ish fantastic! The mortar is detected relatively easily, not because of the steepness of the trajectory, but because it is close to the front line. Howitzers are the same, and the flatness of the "flat trajectory of the projectile" of the tank gun is also compensated by the proximity to the front line. hitch feel It's just that the tank has a small caliber, weak cotton. Detection is made by the sound of a shot, and not by "steepness", didn't you know? feel request
    1. Andy_nsk
      Andy_nsk 24 December 2022 06: 14
      +14
      Detection is made by the sound of a shot, and not by "steepness", didn't you know?

      Have you heard of the counter-battery radar? For example, "Zoo". Did not know? Of course, their work will depend on the height of the projectile and flatness. Projectiles flying low over the ground are difficult for radar to detect, even more difficult to determine the exact position of the tank due to flatness.
    2. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 24 December 2022 10: 30
      -3
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      It's just that the tank has a small caliber, weak cotton.

      the muzzle velocity of a projectile for a tank is over 1500 m/s, for a howitzer it is 600. Hence the different flatness.
      1. Jager
        Jager 24 December 2022 11: 59
        +7
        The speed of the sub-caliber "scrap" is 1100-1500 m/s (depending on modification), the speed of the HE projectile is 600-700 m/s
        1. stankow
          stankow 1 January 2023 16: 19
          +1
          A crowbar with a closed OP is not fired at all.
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 24 December 2022 10: 44
      +8
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      Detection is made by the sound of a shot, and not by "steepness", didn't you know?

      Position detection is carried out after the detection of a counter-battery radar projectile. To do this, the radar forms a radar barrier over the enemy positions, upon crossing which the projectile detects and further escorts it. From the data obtained, the full trajectory is extrapolated and the coordinates of the firing position are determined.
      There are also radars that form two fixed radar barriers over enemy positions, fixing the passage of projectiles through them. This method is less accurate, since the real flight path is unknown (there are only two points and the flight time between them), and one can only hope that it coincides with the standard ones embedded in the calculating device.
      The main problem is that the radar sees the projectile only in the line of sight. Therefore, it is impossible to lower the lower barrier too much - either the beam will run into obstacles, or you will have to push the radar to the forefront. As a result, guns whose projectile trajectory does not rise above 5-10 m can really not be seen by these radars.
      1. Eroma
        Eroma 24 December 2022 11: 51
        +5
        I have always believed that the army is a complex of means of attack and defense. The radar, in my understanding, is an effective tool, but vulnerable, because it is radiating and therefore very noticeable. With proper saturation of the troops with means of direction finding for the operation of radiating systems (radar, walkie-talkies), the constant operation of the radar is like a target on the forehead of the operator, and the enemy has priority. The reaction speed of artillery to target designation is like a few minutes, this is the time that the radar can work, issuing target designation, and then either change position, or hello at 152mm! belay That is how it should be yes but reading about the counter-battery capabilities of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, I understand that this is not so, the radars are actively used by the enemy, and we only occasionally hit them. Hence the question: is the reconnaissance of emitting targets so poorly organized, or is the radar service of the Armed Forces of Ukraine so competently set up? what
        1. cold wind
          cold wind 24 December 2022 12: 29
          +3
          This is where Russia's serious lag in electronic warfare means comes into play. We do not have suitable funds for the tasks you specified. First of all, air. The first call was Karabakh, when Azerbaijan completely outplayed our allies in electronic warfare.
          1. Eroma
            Eroma 24 December 2022 14: 55
            +2
            Maybe yes! sad After all, the radar emits into the air, ground systems may not see them at all belay we need sensors on UAVs, and we scored on these flying planes! fool
            Here is the question for the General Staff Academy, which develop the concepts of warfare, what did they do? request (Dachas were probably built feel )
      2. Alexey Lantukh
        Alexey Lantukh 24 December 2022 15: 05
        +3
        Well, sound intelligence has also been around since the war.
        1. stankow
          stankow 28 December 2022 12: 42
          +1
          And optical is generally the main one. And the most accurate, and the fastest, most reliable and cheapest.
      3. Askold65
        Askold65 24 December 2022 16: 34
        +1
        Quote: Alexey RA
        The main problem is that the radar sees the projectile only in the line of sight. Therefore, it is impossible to lower the lower barrier too much - either the beam will run into obstacles, or you will have to push the radar to the forefront. As a result, guns whose projectile trajectory does not rise above 5-10 m can really not be seen by these radars.

        The main problem with these radars is that their RTR stations see even further. According to reports from the fronts, these stations are regularly scrapped.
  4. Popenko
    Popenko 24 December 2022 05: 34
    +20
    SVO in Ukraine, perhaps, has no analogues of modern military operations. Any Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, and so on are characterized by a completely different scale of action, the composition of weapons, and so on. Therefore, unexpected situations are a natural process. But the scale of the discrepancy between the planned and actual state of affairs characterizes the level of training of the highest command level. And this level of training is extremely weak. Starting from strategic planning - remember the first months of the war, when most Russians were waiting for our troops to be greeted with flowers, and ending with actions on the front line, as an example - raising funds for the purchase of drones.
    1. cold wind
      cold wind 24 December 2022 10: 24
      +5
      This war is not modern. The armament of both countries is relevant for the 70-80s. Therefore, ~40 modern missile and ~200 modern artillery systems were able to withstand thousands of our MLRS and artillery barrels and stop our offensive this summer. The closest analogue of this "SVO" is the Iran-Iraq war.
      1. Denis812
        Denis812 24 December 2022 11: 34
        +13
        No 40 + 200 artillery systems could stop the movement of Russian troops if the leadership of the Russian Federation realized that no one was going to meet them with open arms.
        The current Ukrainian government is the enemy. An enemy supported by his people.
        They openly said that "we will never be brothers." The leadership of the Russian Federation, having started the war, ignored this. Living in Poland, I communicate with Ukrainians every day. And hatred for Russians is only growing. A little more and this war will become a domestic war for them. It's not for me to explain to you what that means.
        To avoid this, it is necessary to bring the APU to zero very quickly.
        Cynically, but: it would be better to put 100 thousand people, but take Kyiv in March, than to do what is happening now.
        1. Jager
          Jager 24 December 2022 12: 03
          +9
          However, the GDP claims to reduce the intensification of battles to reduce losses. But nobody wins like that...
          1. Denis812
            Denis812 24 December 2022 13: 19
            -2
            The intensification of battles with his t.z. means less use of infantry. That is, there are fewer infantry, but there may be more artillery and missiles. Less direct contact, and more sawing the enemy from a distance
        2. Anatoly Proskurin
          Anatoly Proskurin 24 December 2022 20: 46
          0
          The thought is correct, the conclusion is erroneous. The French took Moscow, and what? But ruining the infrastructure is what the doctor ordered.
          1. Vladimir Yurievich
            Vladimir Yurievich 26 December 2022 17: 45
            +2
            The French did not need the capture of Moscow from the word at all. Napoleon's goal was the rapid defeat of the Russian army, forcing tsarist Russia to a new "Tilsit peace" and its speedy accession to the commercial blockade of England.

            And "destroying the infrastructure" means finally turning the common people of Ukraine against us - utter stupidity, generally far from normal logic. Need to destroy military infrastructure of the Armed Forces, and not to deprive ordinary residents of Ukrainian cities of water and electricity, about which the upper ranks continuously and joyfully report to us. For some reason, all NATO members continue to freely use the Ukrainian military and transport infrastructure to deliver their weapons, and here they rejoice at the destruction of another electrical substation ... Or are our Caliber no longer reaching where they need to? Or they fly, but they can’t hit anyone they need? Or... don't want to?
            And yes, it's better for you to change the "doctor" who "prescribed" something to you, because this doctor is just an idiot or, even worse, a provocateur.
      2. Yaroslav Tekkel
        Yaroslav Tekkel 24 December 2022 19: 49
        +3
        Ukraine simply would not have lived up to the supply of modern American and European weapons if it had not modernized the control system of old Soviet guns in 8 years.
      3. meandr51
        meandr51 24 December 2022 22: 09
        +2
        And where did you put thousands of Ukrainian trunks of Soviet origin?
  5. lubesky
    lubesky 24 December 2022 05: 55
    +12
    At the battalion, the rear depth is not high, artillery at the battalion level is always given from the regiment and division due to the depth of action. In this case, for more operational use, you can attach self-propelled guns to the BTG, but only the time of the BTG has already passed. The battalion has only offensive artillery in the form of tanks and, as the author correctly noted, mortar batteries, but in positional combat, regimental and divisional artillery should be at a high level of mobility and fire control along the front as a whole. Reconnaissance-guidance-positioning-sufficient mass of one ammo outfit per target.

    It is worth noting that the experience of the Second World War showed the effectiveness of regimental and divisional artillery groups, the descent of an artillery battery to the level of a battalion was a sure sign of a tactical ploy or the plight of specific battalions. Well, the focus of front-line artillery reserves up to tens of barrels per kilometer is in offensive operations. The importance of artillery duels is confirmed by the high rate of artillery losses on both sides. Why WWII experience? Yes, because the NWO is a unique conflict in terms of scale and there is nothing to compare with since the war.
    1. Rustic
      Rustic 25 December 2022 01: 15
      +5
      It is worth noting that the experience of the Second World War showed the effectiveness of regimental and divisional artillery groups, the descent of an artillery battery to the level of a battalion was a sure sign of a tactical trick or the plight of specific battalions
      You are missing one point. Namely, a huge difference in the level of intelligence then and now. Today, even the Company UAV quite reveals targets for which reconnaissance during the Second World War would require the involvement of aviation. And the level of reconnaissance of the UAV of the battalion may require the involvement of not only cannon artillery, but even MLRS.
  6. Konnick
    Konnick 24 December 2022 05: 56
    +2
    First of all, the weakness of the artillery of the battalion level. In fact, the commander has only 120-mm mortars with a limited effective range. In this case, the most important targets are located at a distance of 10–12 km.

    And what, each battalion fights on its own? Amazing ...

    To attract artillery to priority targets, regimental and divisional artillery had to be brought in, which was often accompanied by unnecessary loss of time.

    Did you have to? How else? Here is the interaction speed of a walking courier. Otherwise, you might think that the commander of the SMEs should be subordinate to the "Coalition".
    1. saigon
      saigon 24 December 2022 06: 35
      +14
      But you know, Nikolai has the feeling that yes, each battalion is on its own
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 24 December 2022 07: 02
        +17
        Yes, I know, it’s just that the author of the article is sure that the battalion has its own war, and the regiment or division has its own. He sees the facts that there is no unified command. One battalion was sent to Maryinka, the other near Avdeevka, they were distributed, cheers, and then they scratch their turnips, why the zilch turns out. And our aviation, in general, from another planet, in itself. In Afghanistan, a platoon commander could call for air support, which was no longer the case in Chechnya.
        1. saigon
          saigon 24 December 2022 13: 39
          +7
          Most annoying is the suspicion that the commanders do not know how to act as a regiment at a single time and for a single task (the consequences of the BTG enthusiasm) I just keep silent about the division.
          When it comes to the nasalnikof that the BTG is partisans or Papuan-like warriors to drive, for full-fledged databases against the defense of the BTG, zero is complete in the mind of the edge as low firepower.
          1. Ryazan87
            Ryazan87 24 December 2022 15: 44
            +5
            A pure repetition of history: the Russian army, conducting operations in Turkestan and the Caucasus, acted as prefabricated detachments created "for the task." Against an irregular, technically backward enemy, this was good. But in the Russian-Japanese "squad mania" led to disastrous results. It turned out that the detachments pulled from the pine forest, where officers and soldiers had never interacted before, where there was no normal rear, were very unreliable combat organisms. I hope to wake up from the BTG chimera.
            1. saigon
              saigon 24 December 2022 17: 18
              +1
              Another non-obvious conclusion is that the double bass army is in no way capable of maintaining long databases on no matter how big the front is. Read from Kuropatkin how mobilization was carried out in the REV and now it’s just dumbfounded.
              1. Ryazan87
                Ryazan87 24 December 2022 20: 52
                +4
                The problem is rather that a contract army capable of a big war is simply very expensive. This country does not pull. In principle, Russia is forced to bear huge military expenses that are not related to a conventional land war.
                R.S. I read Kuropatkin (and not only him, of course) and the problems of replenishing the "bearded men" of the age limit, weaned from the system, having forgotten everything that they were taught - I know. As well as the problem of conscripting a huge number of people unfit for service - more than 50 thousand people were brought to the Far East and back at public expense.
    2. Deon59
      Deon59 24 December 2022 10: 27
      +5
      You, like some kind of battalions, there are no higher than a company and each on its own. Sometimes you come across a video where positions are being stormed. It's complete.
    3. fiberboard
      fiberboard 24 December 2022 19: 09
      +4
      Better ,,Carnations,, , ,,Nones,, ,,, Cornflowers,, , ,,Trays,, , ,,Sleds,,........ . We need to return to the ideas of Marshal Ogarkov. In general, adopt the experience of amers, their battalion structure. Introduce a tank company of 13-16 vehicles into the SME. 6-9 self-propelled guns 122mm. Start production of Vienna, and put them in battalions. ,, Terminators ,, company (10-12)
      1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
        Sergey Aleksandrovich 26 December 2022 19: 45
        +3
        The direction, I would say, is correct, but tracked vehicles are expensive, and Vienna will not fit into this conflict. In addition, the BMP-3 with a 100-mm cannon has proven itself well, it is more needed. The production of 120-mm SAO "Floks" on a wheelbase should become cheaper, as there is an advantage in the form of a large portable ammunition load. You can also put an 82-mm "automatic" Vasilek "with racks for cartridges with mines on the same Ural chassis, but you need a cumulative-fragmentation 82-mm mine to hit fortifications and enemy tanks from above. That is, I would suggest for reinforcement on battalion level wheeled 120-mm "Phlox" and 82-mm "Cornflower" on the same base.
  7. malyvalv
    malyvalv 24 December 2022 08: 31
    +8
    The topic of modern artillery has not been disclosed - a bunch of artillery with drones (ordinary ones without a laser pointer). In fact, now the artillery is better for those who fly drones and the enemy does not.
    Air superiority by drones at low altitudes is becoming as important as air superiority by fighter jets.
    1. stankow
      stankow 28 December 2022 22: 37
      0
      The author has no idea about artillery, especially modern. How can he open it??
  8. FoBoss_VM
    FoBoss_VM 24 December 2022 09: 24
    +10
    It was always not clear: why there is still no high-precision ammunition for Malka
    1. Eroma
      Eroma 24 December 2022 12: 03
      +6
      Because, apparently, 203mm artillery is considered a dying caliber! New systems are not being developed in this caliber, and therefore guided munitions too! Modernization extended the service life of the "outdated" system based on the available stocks of shells. Hence the question, do we produce 203mm shells at all? Or will the Soviet stock run out and that's it, Malka to the scrap? belay
      1. Pantsuy
        Pantsuy 24 December 2022 12: 27
        +3
        Quote: Eroma
        Hence the question, do we produce 203mm shells at all? Or will the Soviet stock run out and that's it, Malka to the scrap?

        It looks like the same fate awaits Tulip
        1. Eroma
          Eroma 24 December 2022 14: 48
          +3
          The main thing is that the replacement be comparable wink The SV coalition, of course, is comparable in range, but the projectile power is definitely worse, but maybe 152mm is enough what only the speed of adopting this very Coalition of the SV is embarrassing feel no matter how it turns out that Malka will use up the entire supply of shells from warehouses, we will continue to bring the Coalition to mind.
          And another moment is quo at the maximum distance, as I understand it, Malka has enough power for her accuracy, but does the Coalition have better accuracy at 152mm? We have so far
          there are no analogues of Escalirubu No.
          Although Caesar seems to fall for 40-50 km, we definitely should do no worse drinks
          1. Askold65
            Askold65 24 December 2022 16: 46
            0
            Quote: Eroma
            Although Caesar seems to fall for 40-50 km, we definitely should do no worse

            It was already written here that at such distances, without adjustment in flight, the dispersion of shells goes to +/- hundreds of meters. Therefore, in reality, more or less accurate shooting is possible only up to 30 km. And then, with a spread of tens of meters from the target.
          2. stankow
            stankow 28 December 2022 23: 00
            +1
            There is an analogue to Excalibur. For Tornado-S.
        2. stankow
          stankow 28 December 2022 22: 52
          +1
          Pamtsui What's so difficult about making minis? When you run out of fuel, do you leave the car, or do you refuel?
      2. stankow
        stankow 28 December 2022 22: 47
        +1
        Eroma Why all" ? As long as there are projectile backwaters, you can order any batch of any caliber. What is there?! The production of a projectile is sometimes simpler than a modern fancy pan.
    2. Sergey Aleksandrovich
      Sergey Aleksandrovich 27 December 2022 11: 36
      +3
      For "Malka" there are cluster 203-mm ammunition.
    3. stankow
      stankow 28 December 2022 22: 40
      +1
      Foboss_VM Because the radius of destruction is greater than the dispersion of the projectile. Direct and even close hits are not particularly required.
  9. T-100
    T-100 24 December 2022 09: 25
    +4
    State Duma deputy Vitaly Milonov, and now a senior sergeant-gunner, serves in the NVO zone just on the Rapier.

    And how does he serve there? A rhetorical question
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 24 December 2022 11: 11
      0
      State Duma deputy Vitaly Milonov, and now a senior sergeant-gunner, serves in the NVO zone just on the Rapier.
      Is this the same Milonov who received the nickname "the weirdo with the censer"?
      1. 72jora72
        72jora72 24 December 2022 14: 45
        +3
        Is this the same Milonov who received the nickname "the weirdo with the censer"?
        Did you come up with a nickname yourself?)) However, he is fighting at the front, and you, from the whole article, only found familiar letters about Milonov ....
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 24 December 2022 21: 39
          -1
          Did you come up with the name yourself?
          This nickname was given to him for his activities in the State Duma 2 years ago. And it is much more offensive than I brought. By the way, his (opinion about Milonov) is shared by many of those fighting in the Donbass, in particular, the Limonovites.
          1. Rustic
            Rustic 25 December 2022 01: 26
            +2
            This nickname was given to him for his activities in the State Duma 2 years ago.
            Well, Milonov has more than enough ill-wishers from among homosexuals. He thrashed them well.
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 25 December 2022 12: 20
              -1
              Well, Milonov has more than enough ill-wishers from among homosexuals. He thrashed them well.
              This is when he voted for the homosexual project of raising the retirement age?
              1. Rustic
                Rustic 25 December 2022 15: 13
                +1
                This is when he voted for the homosexual project of raising the retirement age?
                He just didn't vote for him. So it's understandable why you wrote about it.
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 25 December 2022 15: 51
                  +1
                  The homosexual project was being prepared. Or not?
                  1. Rustic
                    Rustic 25 December 2022 16: 20
                    +1
                    The homosexual project was being prepared. Or not?
                    Well, you know better who of yours prepared it.
            2. Vladimir Yurievich
              Vladimir Yurievich 26 December 2022 19: 02
              -1
              Deftly translated the direction of the flood from the topic "the correct activity of the servant of the people for the benefit of the people" to the "sharp" topic of homosexuality. Apparently, an experienced demagogue or a competent bot.
  10. Bogalex
    Bogalex 24 December 2022 09: 27
    0
    But now the Rapier is quite effective when firing along a flat trajectory - fortunately, NATO counter-battery The radar is unable to track the location of the shot.

    Why so?
    1. stankow
      stankow 28 December 2022 23: 06
      +1
      The top of the trajectory is close to the ground. And there is interference. The flight time is still negligible, there is no time to take data. And to calculate the trajectory, you need a lot of them.
  11. solar
    solar 24 December 2022 09: 32
    +4
    Shooting from tank guns from closed positions has become quite commonplace.

    Strelkov cites Murza's post on this topic. Not always in civilized words :))
    Separate fierce **** - constantly pop-up videos from the 1st AK of the NM of the DPR with firing from tanks from closed positions, practiced on an ongoing basis. The horror here, of course, is not that the tanks are firing from the PDO ... The horror is that, with the catastrophic lack of shells in the artillery hushed up ..., it was decided to replace the artillery with tanks on an ongoing basis. ...
    In reality, such shooting is an emergency temporary measure in a situation where it is necessary to cover a large concentration of the enemy one-time, and there is no free artillery at hand ... Smooth-bore tank guns are not intended for what they are now doing all day long - for continuously throwing high-explosive fragmentation shells enemy positions. ... The task of the tank is to destroy enemy tanks with direct fire in a tank battle with such "crowbars". Ushat barrel - you will not hit, the enemy will destroy you first. And the survivability of the barrel of a tank gun, it is much less than that of a rifled howitzer. ... In the LPR, still far before the SVO ... tank barrels were shot to the point where further training firing at the training ground deprived the tanks of combat value in the future ... That is, we are now methodically putting out of action the last surviving tanks ...

    https://vk.com/@iistrelkov-andrei-morozov-murz-v-pogone-za-pozitivchikom
    1. cold wind
      cold wind 24 December 2022 10: 39
      +7
      So it has long been known, shell and barrel hunger began at the end of summer. When they were shot in senseless offensives and the warehouses were destroyed by the Himars. Hence the D-1 and S-60 en masse at the front.
      1. Askold65
        Askold65 24 December 2022 17: 00
        +1
        Quote from cold wind
        When they were shot in senseless offensives and the warehouses were destroyed by the Himars.

        I immediately remembered the pearls of liberal historians about "Zhukov's senseless counterattacks" in the border battles of the summer of 1941.
        And, I’m embarrassed to ask, were the losses of the ukrovermacht under 100 thousand people voiced by Ursula von der Leinen caused solely by self-shelling of the Ukrainian military?
        1. Yaroslav Tekkel
          Yaroslav Tekkel 24 December 2022 19: 57
          +5
          Do you like to write or pronounce "ukrovermacht"? Maybe something pleasantly strains at the same time? The Wehrmacht, in fact, was the strongest army of its time, which could only be knocked down with huge losses and the help of the two largest economies in the world. If now the Wehrmacht is against us, even if it’s coming out, and we don’t have the Red Army, the United States and Britain behind our backs, or Zhukov and Rokossovsky at Headquarters, there’s nothing - who will win?
          1. Askold65
            Askold65 24 December 2022 20: 32
            -2
            Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
            Do you like to write or pronounce "ukrovermacht"? Maybe something pleasantly strains at the same time?

            I am stating the obvious - the Armed Forces of Ukraine in their methods of warfare and symbols are copied from the "SS waffles" and the Wehrmacht. Or is it not obvious to you? And what kind of pleasant "tension" should I experience at the sight of these bastards? belay And why are you so outraged by my analogies? Are dill unworthy of being called ukroVERMAKHT?
            Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
            The Wehrmacht, in fact, was the strongest army of its time, which could only be knocked down with huge losses and the help of the two largest economies in the world.

            Well then, let there be a misunderstanding.
            Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
            If now the Wehrmacht is against us, even if it’s coming out, but we don’t have the Red Army, the United States and Britain behind our backs, or Zhukov and Rokossovsky at Headquarters, there’s nothing - who will win?

            S H A!!!!
            1. Yaroslav Tekkel
              Yaroslav Tekkel 24 December 2022 20: 54
              0
              Quote: Askold65
              S H A!!!!


              Here I am about the same
      2. stankow
        stankow 28 December 2022 23: 09
        0
        cold wind You have three statements in your post. None is correct.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 24 December 2022 10: 51
      +7
      Quote from solar
      Strelkov cites Murza's post on this topic. Not always in civilized words :))

      Well, Murz also wrote about NM artillery - and also not always in civilized words. More precisely, not even about the artillery itself, but about how its combat training in the interwar period was replaced by the equipment of ceremonial training grounds, followed by a "ballet" on them and writing mountains of reports.
      In units that do not regularly face the need for full-fledged effective use of artillery in real difficult combat conditions, all systemic efforts in the combat training of artillery are defiantly ostentatious. “Training”, demonstrated by the calculations of “circus performers” (ostentatious teams) on long-studied ranges with well-known targets for shooting, instantly disappears as soon as a real task is set, with input unknown in advance. As a result of this, for example, the howitzer crew, which repeatedly practiced “excellent” demonstrative firing, received new coordinates in the introductory instead of the usual usual deployment site, tritely failed to orient itself on the ground and find the indicated point. Descriptions of this kind of incidents with artillery units look like malicious misinformation and slander against artillerymen, for whom competent work with a map and calculations is the main key to successfully hitting targets. But the “wandering” of entire motorized rifle and tank columns during exercises is an unfortunate “norm of life”.

      Under these conditions, the arrival of unskilled “artillerymen” from the Russian Federation, who demand from the “local” workers to work according to peacetime standards (up to gravel filling of paths to ostentatious firing positions at firing ranges), demoralizes the personnel, a significant part of which could already be convinced from their own personal experience of how high the level of training of the enemy, which for 4 years has been consistently and, most importantly, systematically working to improve the quality of its artillery.
      1. stankow
        stankow 28 December 2022 23: 16
        +1
        the howitzer crew, which repeatedly practiced “excellent” ostentatious firing, having received new coordinates in the introductory instead of the usual usual deployment site, corny failed to navigate the terrain and find the indicated point

        Wow, how branded! laughing Only to understand the maps howitzer crew does not care. The battery is led by the SOB - senior battery officer to the new OP (firing position) laughing laughing
  12. Maks1995
    Maks1995 24 December 2022 09: 42
    +8
    Correctly-wrongly written - everything can be explained "THEY hide" ...
    But Milonov, in a clean, brand new camouflage "without a speck of dust", promoted himself. As before Rogozin. Chechens. Old man with a machine gun without a horn ...

    About real fighters - no, no, but officials in clean, sometimes NATO camouflage, flicker and PR ...
    1. hhurik
      hhurik 24 December 2022 11: 06
      0
      And what does the dad in your post have to do with it? Old Man just - competently resolved the situation, I suspect, and from a cigarette butt, if necessary, to shoot at enemies, his hand did not flinch, there is a skill.
      And without a fastened magazine in a helicopter - also competently.
      1. AdAstra
        AdAstra 24 December 2022 15: 19
        +2
        Do not cling to the person "horn" is just jargon.
        1. hhurik
          hhurik 24 December 2022 15: 25
          -3
          A subject who confuses a horn and a store (a trigger and a hook, well, etc.) cannot be a person in the full sense, do not go to a fortuneteller. wink
          And this is not the point of my post: there is no need to put the highly developed political being of Lukashenka on a par with the pygmies.
          1. AdAstra
            AdAstra 24 December 2022 15: 33
            +1
            Moreover, do not cling hi "" ""
            1. hhurik
              hhurik 24 December 2022 15: 35
              -1
              We have a free, democratic and legal state.
              The right to write on the fence everything that I consider necessary to convey to the people and the world is sacred hi
  13. vvn_vl
    vvn_vl 24 December 2022 11: 36
    +4
    well, if Milonov is the most famous artilleryman, then tank biathlon is the pinnacle of the military thought of the leaders of the Ministry of Defense
  14. Mekey Iptyshev
    Mekey Iptyshev 24 December 2022 11: 54
    +6
    A familiar artilleryman, on vacation from there, also complained about the deterioration of the guns. Moreover, even before the SVO, part of the artillery was worn out. This greatly affects accuracy.
    PS If not for the Soviet reserves, the Russian army of the 21st century was strikingly similar to the Russian army of another time, to the tsarist army of the 20th century.
    1. Kolobochok
      Kolobochok 24 December 2022 14: 49
      +3
      You are probably talking about those "galoshes" that they only knew how to do laughing
    2. AdAstra
      AdAstra 24 December 2022 15: 21
      +2
      Why do the makers of "galoshes" bow to the ground hi
    3. Ryazan87
      Ryazan87 24 December 2022 15: 52
      +3
      The modern Russian army has practically nothing similar to the Russian army of the early 20th century. Moreover, "amazing".
      What the RF Armed Forces look like is a reduced and weakened version of the Soviet army of the early 80s. In fact, this is its copy, with all the corresponding problems and sores. Yes, and the top generals of the same dressing, starting with Gerasimov.
      1. zenion
        zenion 31 December 2022 14: 58
        0
        Ryazanets87. What the Germans of the time of Hitler could not do, the wartime service with Hitler did.
    4. Yaroslav Tekkel
      Yaroslav Tekkel 24 December 2022 20: 09
      +4
      If it were like the royal army, it would be an unattainable happiness. The tsarist army nevertheless opposed 30-40% (at the peak and 50%) of the German army, 60% (before Italy entered the war, 80%) of the Austro-Hungarian army and 50% of the Turkish army. Very worthy. We are now draining one Ukrainian army, which is fed through a pipette.
    5. stankow
      stankow 28 December 2022 23: 27
      +1
      Mekey Barrel wear and muzzle velocity reduction not really affects accuracy. Amendments are being made. At the same time, such amendments are not the largest ones. Less than the correction for the wind and the temperature of the charges. In addition, such amendments do not change for months, while others - almost every hour.
  15. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 24 December 2022 12: 59
    +4
    The article is controversial to say the least. Much is "sucked from the finger", something is "far-fetched". I especially liked that Russia has nothing to oppose to the Bandera Wehrmacht, at distances of 35 - 50 km. Let's start with the fact that the range is 50 km. - This is from the brochures. It is possible, at the limit of the technical capabilities of guns that fail very quickly. Or in general, trunk ruptures, like the Polish "crabs". Therefore, the real distances are somewhere around 30 - 35 km. Both Hurricane and Smerch work well at these distances, especially since they have the appropriate ammunition for working on infantry and lightly armored vehicles. The problem is only in the timely detection and determination of coordinates.
    1. Ryazan87
      Ryazan87 24 December 2022 15: 53
      +1
      The problem is only in the timely detection and determination of coordinates.

      Therefore, there is nothing to oppose.
      1. agond
        agond 24 December 2022 17: 56
        +1
        They constantly mention the counter-battery fight, although not a military one, however, I note that a battery is called the concentration of a certain number of artillery pieces on one position, which means that if there is no concentration, then there is no battery, and if it is not there (all guns are dispersed over a distance that is a multiple of dispersion diameter of enemy shells), then it is impossible to deal with a non-existent battery (yes, a tautology), and if there is a positional nature of hostilities, then you can equip stationary field shelters for single guns and not change position after each shot, the probability of hitting a stationary single target 10 km from the line the front is not great.
        1. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 24 December 2022 20: 04
          +1
          Unfortunately, the KHIMARS has a KVO of 3 - 5 m, therefore, a caponier with a gun may well be hit, with a probability of 25 - 50%. Another thing is that the destruction of one gun with 4 missiles is not profitable from a financial point of view.
      2. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 24 December 2022 20: 02
        0
        There is something to oppose, to detect and direct - so far the problem.
  16. Vlad Gor
    Vlad Gor 24 December 2022 17: 55
    0
    https://topwar.ru/206569-bol-i-nischeta-rossijskoj-artillerii.html
    Pain and poverty of Russian artillery
    The problem is that two armies clashed - one from the time of the First World War (this is Russian), the second - the level of the 1990 Gulf War. And alas, the second army really nightmares the first. And the first one cannot do anything about it, because the second army has a huge advantage: it sees farther and better, it exchanges information faster at all levels, it is more mobile.
    1. stankow
      stankow 28 December 2022 23: 36
      0
      Why journalists write like that. As an artillery captain, I see the opposite. Artillery of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation works perfectly and clearly surpasses the artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. What can be seen from the result is the ratio of the number of targets destroyed.
      1. zenion
        zenion 31 December 2022 15: 07
        -1
        stankow. If you want rewards and so on, you can hit one target to death several times. One man was very eager to go home from the front, he wanted to see his family. They told him - bring the German flag - let him go on vacation. It's been a week since I went on vacation. A few months later, after returning from vacation, he went to reconnaissance, brought another German banner, again on vacation. He is told to exchange experiences with other fighters. It's not very difficult. One German also wanted to go on vacation. So I give him our banner, and he gives me his.
        1. stankow
          stankow 1 January 2023 16: 31
          +1
          So whose artillery has more destroyed targets?
  17. Sergey3
    Sergey3 24 December 2022 19: 50
    +3
    "The industry did not have time to saturate"
    The words of an uncomprehending amateur. And for this very industry, someone ordered production on time? At least someone calculated the required amount of pre-production? And they would also stop the bankruptcy of small monopolists in the production of various components. For example, this year alone, Rostec bankrupted dozens of enterprises that, in their opinion, generate losses, and then the entire industry begins to feverish because these same bankrupts produced something that no one else wants to produce, and there is no suitable replacement.
  18. Anatoly Proskurin
    Anatoly Proskurin 24 December 2022 21: 18
    +1
    The RF Armed Forces do not have eyes - No satellite constellation and drone support. Who is to blame - the General Staff and the top political leadership. The generals and command from the polkan to the major do not correspond to either combat or moral-volitional qualities. Neither skill nor patriotism, thanks to our media ... but in essence .... correctly, top political leadership . And the most important thing!!! THE MOST IMPORTANT!!!.... FOR WHAT AM I, A RUSSIAN SOLDIER, OBLIGED TO LIVE MY LIFE ON THE BATTLE FIELD if it becomes necessary?! OR MY SON?... can someone tell me clearly?!
  19. RoTTor
    RoTTor 24 December 2022 22: 52
    +1
    Sad conclusions:
    - the Russian army is not ready for a real war, even for the SVO, all the steam went into the whistle at tank biathlons and other games;
    -military-technical policy - a failure;
    -REWORMS of the army are criminal.

    Happiness is that so far the SVO is small, but the hope is that they will disperse and punish the unsuitable gang of General Staff officers and prepare the army for a real war.

    There was already the "Douai doctrine" and Khrushchev's deformities with the destruction of aviation, artillery, etc. in favor of the ugly one-sided development of missile weapons, the bad monkeying of enemies with their brigades, berets, and so on.

    With proper preparation of the organization and the right directions of strikes, they should grind the Armed Forces of Ukraine into dust, at most, by the end of March.
  20. Radikal
    Radikal 24 December 2022 23: 34
    +3
    Firstly, the installation crews and command staff are formed from the elite of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

    Secondly, and firstly, this is the Odessa Higher Artillery Command School, it works, there are real professional graduates - to underestimate them is a criminal mistake! Probably the teaching staff was preserved there. Largely. sad
    Unlike us. sad
    Traitors must be sought not among fools, such as Galkin, but behind the Kremlin wall, and inside ....
    When Khrushchev forbade the development of the party apparatus to the State Security Committee, then the end of the country came. sad
    1. stankow
      stankow 28 December 2022 23: 39
      +1
      Found the extreme - Khrushchov. And I thought not to think why things are not going laughing laughing laughing
      1. zenion
        zenion 31 December 2022 15: 16
        -1
        What they don’t do - things don’t go, apparently on Monday their mother gave birth ... The crocodile is not caught, the coconut does not grow, they cry, they pray to God without sparing tears. They walk, pray to God, the crocodile is not caught, killed, robbed this and that, oh yes!
        1. stankow
          stankow 1 January 2023 16: 34
          +1
          zenion Is it time for you to grow up? wink
          ...............
      2. Sidor_Bodrov
        Sidor_Bodrov 2 January 2023 17: 10
        0
        And the extreme one is our people, who elect United Russia - the patroness of democratic kleptomaniac plutocrats, oligarchs-lberasts, bourgeois world-eaters, everything was stolen before us with the support of world imperialism. Now there is no money, neither for war, nor for the economy nor on science and education.
  21. newtc7
    newtc7 24 December 2022 23: 44
    +2
    Oh, these shells are very necessary. Only with a range of 60 km and a fleet of drones. Then the Haimars and Ukrainian air defense will come to an end
    1. Sidor_Bodrov
      Sidor_Bodrov 2 January 2023 17: 32
      -1
      You should have started thinking about this 30 years ago. Keep track of the new weapons of the West, use your brains and develop superior capabilities, conduct analytical work on military planning, and not squander competent specialists with penny salaries at retail outlets and lure young people into managers. The country needed not only what is sold with a profit, but much more - what is costly and will not pay off soon. - To strengthen the defense, for offensive weapons, for scientific developments, for the restoration of industry. And it was necessary to spend money on this, and not to condone the stuffing of egg capsules of businessmen and officials.
  22. Rustic
    Rustic 25 December 2022 00: 23
    +5
    Even air defense systems are not of such critical importance,
    Wrong statement. Just the same, air defense is of greater importance. Especially for Ukraine. But not in the destruction of the enemy, but rather in the preservation of the life of one's own drugs. Without anti-aircraft defense, after gaining superiority in the sky, attack and bomber aircraft would simply roll out all the artillery, and tanks, and the infantry would be afraid to stick their heads out of the bushes. That the same Americans have repeatedly demonstrated by fighting with all sorts of Papuans.
  23. zenion
    zenion 25 December 2022 15: 46
    0
    It's great that the kids have something to play with. No matter what the child would amuse, if only she would not cry. No one thinks that everything can be destroyed, on the one hand, on the other, in one launch. Nothing bad will happen after that. No one will cry or rejoice. Either they frighten that nothing will remain, then they rejoice that at least something will remain, but maybe not forever. Like, not as scary as it was after the Second World War, then only 50 million died, and maybe 80 million, because no one counted and counted to be afraid. Europe managed to break up by 70 percent and this is an ordinary weapon in which weapons were not used, when half a city can die in one salvo, as in Germany. But now it pleases that with one shell, or with a bomb, ten millions can be bent, and if with a real bomb, then a quarter of Europe. But you don't need to get too upset. Dinosaurs will reappear. It will be very interesting.
    1. agond
      agond 25 December 2022 17: 37
      +2
      It is known that 80-90% of the wounds of military personnel from both sides are caused by mines and shells, then the ratio of losses should be approximately proportional to the consumption of mines and shells by each side
  24. AG-76
    AG-76 28 December 2022 13: 28
    0
    Wherever you go, problems are everywhere...
    And if you really have to face NATO? What then? Take on a nuclear club?
  25. Pavel57
    Pavel57 29 December 2022 09: 18
    0
    From the logic of the author follows the effectiveness of tank-caliber self-propelled platforms, for example, the T-62.
  26. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 29 December 2022 11: 12
    0
    I can imagine what several thousand 76, 85 and 100 mm rifled guns could do.
  27. IvanR
    IvanR 1 January 2023 16: 29
    -1
    Even for terrorist shelling of the civilian population, it turns out, skills and competencies are needed.

    If the nationalists shoot exclusively at civilians, then how, according to the same Oryx, are the losses of the Russian Federation many times greater than those of the Armed Forces of Ukraine?
  28. Goto
    Goto 1 January 2023 22: 53
    0
    Quote: Vladimir Yurievich
    The French did not need the capture of Moscow from the word at all. Napoleon's goal was the rapid defeat of the Russian army, forcing tsarist Russia to a new "Tilsit peace" and its speedy accession to the commercial blockade of England.

    And "destroying the infrastructure" means finally turning the common people of Ukraine against us - utter stupidity, generally far from normal logic. Need to destroy military infrastructure of the Armed Forces, and not to deprive ordinary residents of Ukrainian cities of water and electricity, about which the upper ranks continuously and joyfully report to us. For some reason, all NATO members continue to freely use the Ukrainian military and transport infrastructure to deliver their weapons, and here they rejoice at the destruction of another electrical substation ... Or are our Caliber no longer reaching where they need to? Or they fly, but they can’t hit anyone they need? Or... don't want to?
    And yes, it's better for you to change the "doctor" who "prescribed" something to you, because this doctor is just an idiot or, even worse, a provocateur.

    "Ordinary" residents of Ukraine from the very beginning of the NMD willingly laid out the location of our troops.
  29. Eug
    Eug 29 January 2023 08: 55
    0
    I didn’t understand something about the battalion commander and artillery assets, his subordinates - quite recently I re-read Mikhin’s memoirs “Artillerymen, Stalin gave the order” (excellent memoirs, I highly recommend) just from the point of view of the applicability of the experience of the Great Patriotic War, and there the battery commander 122 -mm howitzers are often located on the same NP with the commander of the infantry battalion and accompanies the infantry battalion with the fire of their battery! Sometimes this is a platoon (2 guns), but even then the need for the most efficient support of infantry by artillery was absolutely clear! Then, most likely, the "office SUVs" were reinsured .... And yet - the "line" of artillery guns needs a "line" of guided (corrected) shells for these guns, and the principles of correction (guidance) must be resistant to the means of influence of potential the enemy (disabling GLONASS or analogues, electronic interference, impossibility of backlighting, smoke screen, etc.). Conclusion - it should be based on a small-sized inertial system, there seems to be developments, it's expensive - but mass production should drastically reduce the cost. Although now it is not customary to develop inexpensive products - the "interest" of the parties is falling ....
  30. wladimirjankov
    wladimirjankov 1 February 2023 19: 32
    0
    All wars for Russia have always been unexpected, we were not ready for any of them, including the last one. We have such a mentality. We never learn from past failures and mistakes and learn from them. Although the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff have created and have many departments, analytical departments and other structures for the combat readiness of the army, the development of its weapons, analysis of the state and development trends of the world's strongest armies, forecasting and modeling modern and future wars. There, tens of thousands of people in uniform and with epaulettes receive not frail salaries. It turns out that these people did not do what they needed or they turned out to be incompetent, got there by accident and ate their bread in vain. Then those who recruited such people, controlled them, set tasks for them should answer for this. After all, all sane people, even far from the army, already 25-30 years ago it was clear that the upcoming wars, without the use of nuclear weapons, would take place at a new technical level, with new strategies and tactics, using network-centric control systems, communications, reconnaissance, high-precision weapons, UAVs. It seems that our military understood this and saw what was happening in the armies of the NATO countries and China. And there were financial and temporal opportunities to keep up with them. But then the war came, and everything is as always with us. We didn't wait and we weren't ready. There is no one, there is no other, but for some reason they have it. Hoped that no one would dare to start a war with Russia as a nuclear power?