A military doctor spoke about how the existing system of tenders negatively affects tactical medicine in the Russian army

Yuri Yevich, a Russian military doctor who takes part in the NMD and previously served as a volunteer in the Donbass, spoke about the means of tactical medicine needed to save the life of a wounded soldier during the Razvedopros program.

At the same time, the expert touched upon an important, but extremely “unpleasant” topic of the influence of the tender system on tactical medicine in the Russian army.

According to Yevich, according to statistics, up to 70% of injuries occur in the limbs. Therefore, the most important component of an army first aid kit is a tourniquet.

You can often read angry comments on the network in which users complain that mobilized fighters in the RF Armed Forces are given Esmarch's tourniquet, still of the Soviet type. At the same time, according to a military doctor, this is far from the worst option today. This harness has an oval cross section and is well stretched.

In turn, according to the expert, modern harnesses, apparently in order to save money, are made flat. As a result, they often break.

However, this is not the worst. Yevich noted that a Russian soldier's tactical first aid kit could be stocked with, as he put it, "a medical device used to draw blood." Such a tourniquet, according to the expert, is absolutely not suitable for stopping bleeding in case of injury.

In addition, the military doctor said that in some units they can issue a tourniquet from "knitted elastic band with a clip." It looks like the American RATS. True, the latter is made of high-quality rough rubber and costs 10 times more than the “Russian counterpart”.

Speaking of "more expensive". This, according to the expert, is the main problem. It's not that in Russia they do something poorly. We have good, conscientious manufacturers.

At the same time, as Evic explained, the tendering system in Russia usually involves the purchase of what is "cheaper". As a result, low-quality medical supplies often end up in tactical first-aid kits.

Someone saved and made good money on it

- summed up the military doctor.

Comments

[tihonmarine]

Speaking of "more expensive". This, according to the expert, is the main problem.

As long as the army is supplied, through auctions and private firms, the mess will continue.
In Soviet times, everything was centralized and at the state level.

[-Paul-]

It's just that these tenders use only one criterion - the price. Naturally, penny products win, not high-quality ones. Otherwise prohibited by federal procurement law.

[olegfbi]

In tenders, the price is really the decisive criterion!
It is allowed to supply analogues that are NOT worse in quality than the requested state. the customer of the goods.
In fact, a huge number of suppliers provide formal quality documents (I don’t know if the manufacturer is a fake or a lie ...) and give an exorbitantly low price at the auction!
Believe me, many very many state. customers are NOT at all happy with such deliveries ... They openly say - We are more interested in buying a quality product, albeit more expensive, but NOT having problems using ... They often shrug and say - We know that they will bring us shit, but the price and docks ... They say there will be a problem, but we can't do anything.
There were cases, in our practice, when the initial price fell 10 (TEN) times, it's just beyond ...
Everything written is not theory, but personal experience of participating in the auction of our company.

[The popuas]

These cheap papers are priced like high-quality ... it's about bureaucracy and terms for economic crimes..

[Tatyana]

A military doctor spoke about how the existing system of tenders negatively affects tactical medicine in the Russian army

No matter how much it influences when it comes to financial profits in the consumer-market system of the continuation of the Gaidar-Kudrin economy in Russia!
All the more so in the light of the dominance of the ideology of the American economist Milton Frielman with his beloth about the existence in the world of an allegedly "free" and "clean" market for capital, goods (services) and labor with its corrupt capitalist foundation!

[credo]

This topic has been discussed more than once, including at annual meetings with V.V. Putin, raised repeatedly and demanded to stop the law "The one who offers cheaper wins in the auction", but everything turned out to be in vain.
It looks like someone really needs it.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: credo

"The one who offers cheaper wins the auction", but everything turned out to be in vain.

Where there is "bargaining", there are kickbacks, price gouging, someone profits, and people in the trenches suffer.
Everything is like in WWI - "to whom is the war, and to whom is the mother dear."

[tihonmarine]

Quote: -Paul-

It's just that these tenders use only one criterion - the price.

Prices for the army should be the same for everyone and set by the state. I received alcohol for minesweepers, at 6 kopecks per liter, and in the store, Rectificat alcohol cost 4 rubles. 8 kop. for half a liter, alcohol "Drinking" - 5 rubles. 20 kop.

[dementor873]

All laws have one nuance. There will be NOTHING for their violation. The law is drawn up correctly, it's just that they don't follow its execution.

[A080083]

Oh how much you understand tenders. Answer then the question why tenders with frank shit at the price of gold are won? Maybe for one of the reasons that the tender is created for the person who should win?

[Barberry25]

and? the turnstile has been known for more than a decade, but Esmarch’s tourniquet was still in the time of the USSR. here the moment is not for auctions, but for the need for the Moscow Region to respond more quickly to the needs of soldiers. The same Medplatn turnstiles have probably existed for about 7 years, but the Moscow Region did not purchase them from the word at all.

[Woroshilow]

And here is this? As you write, first-aid kits are purchased centrally, at the state level, through auctions from private firms.
The people here are indignant that the first-aid kit is now completed as in the days of the USSR (two IPP-1 and a tourniquet). And what about supplies? Has anyone seen those. task from M.O. for the supply of individual first-aid kits for military personnel? Apparently, in the Ministry I think that since it’s an individual matter, that is, one soldier needs to carry a portable operating room for military field surgery with him, and the other has enough Vietnamese asterisks, then let them deal with this issue themselves (especially since there are no conscripts in the SVO zone, a hint understand?). I propose not to invent a bicycle, before us it was already invented by people from the North American continent who are constantly constantly fighting somewhere, make the IFAK first aid kit just the same, or at least no worse.

[svp67]

Quote: tihonmarine

As long as the army is supplied, through auctions and private firms, the mess will continue.

No, not really. All this must go through "military acceptance". From a batch, a small amount of product should be taken at random and subjected to an all-encompassing check. And the materials used and production capacities must first be subjected to close scrutiny.
And most importantly, responsibility should be established, both administrative and criminal.

[Barberry25]

only the venous tourniquet is put on by volunteers, and not by the Moscow Region, it would be worth noting to the author when he retells Yevich

[Leader_Barmaleev]

The tender system in medicine in general and in military medicine in particular is ABSOLUTE EVIL!!! I tell you this as a doctor who has worked in emergency medicine all his life. Only one thing can be said about the officials who imposed tenders on medicine - there is no need for enemies with such "friends"! When you have to work CHEAP instead of EFFECTIVE, the last crumbs of respect and patriotism for your country disappear. If anyone from bureaucrats is reading this - consider!

[Pulkovo1942]

Tender system in medicine in general and in military medicine

The tender system is competition and inevitable progress! It's just that competition in Russia is built on an unfair basis. I was always moved by the fact that incompetent Russian officials cannot even use the mechanisms tested by the West for decades)

[ALARI]

I would add that in tenders there should be a lower price, if it is lower, then it will be deliberate bullshit. I judge by my work, when we tender, we stop at the amount that is beneficial to us so as not to go into a minus. They often lower the price so that they will come from another city already in the red. Then they simply disappeared and we had to do it for our own price, but with overdue dates. There should be a price limit.

[Eule]

Quote: Pulkovo1942

mechanisms tested by the West for decades

Is it about the execution of the owner of a supplier company in England in 1942? I read about that joke, the seller of rotten canned food was arrested by the military police, taken directly to the tribunal, and after he was shot, in the morning his accomplices went to the police, and they received a copy of the verdict.

[fuffi]

and you, as doctors, what did you do to buy what you need? participated in the preparation of the technical assignment? correctly it is called "description of the procurement object". or said that this is not your job? then eat what is served. with us, everyone tells the buyers exactly what model and manufacturer of the equipment they need for work. and not only reports, but prepares a description of the technical characteristics in which he understands better than the buyer. it is not difficult and you need to do it once and spend time on it in order to use it again and again for the next purchase. and a specific user then gets what he wanted, and not what the buyer had enough mind for, who is generally far from it. the tender system of purchases implies the purchase of a specific desired product, the right manufacturer and model for you, and not the purchase of a similar product from everything on the market. If anything, I have been purchasing for several years and I am just an end user who wants to buy an EFFICIENT product. And it turns out that overlays are extremely rare.

[-Paul-]

which model and manufacturer

By law, it is just impossible to specify the model and manufacturer.

the tender system of purchases implies the purchase of a specific desired product, the desired manufacturer and model for you

One word is missing here - must. The tender system MUST... and so on.

[vindigo]

When purchasing software, we write a rationale for using a particular brand.

[O. Bender]

So the whole system of tenders suffers from this, they fell in price, won in a row and went looking for gasters and materials for a penny.

[Reindeer]

On the other hand, there are no tenders - cuts in budgets take on cosmic proportions. Here, it would probably be worth taking something out of these tenders and transferring it under some other control, let's say - performers; But then again, how do you control it? Reporting - as you know, evil, and in general, you can draw anything with reports -_-

[Non-fighter]

There is only one answer - quality control. He promised one thing and brought another, worse quality - a fine, and a multiple of the contact amount, and the contract goes to the next manufacturer of the same tender.

[fuffi]

Quote: Not the fighter

There is only one answer - quality control. He promised one thing and brought another, worse quality - a fine, and a multiple of the contact amount, and the contract goes to the next manufacturer of the same tender.

Believe it or not, it's literally written into the law. expert commissions or individual experts, incl. severe punishment for them. and fines. and the amount of fines from the amount of the contract. I issued fines of several million rubles to contractors. they were very sad about it.

[Goto]

The problem is different. Who determines what should correspond, for example, a tourniquet. There is probably GOST or some other document where it should be spelled out what, how and from what it should be made and what characteristics it should have. If the proposed samples do not have the declared characteristics, then there should be criminal liability for manufacturers, suppliers, as well as for those who store them (because storage conditions may be violated). Or, for example, the deadlines have expired, it has not been replaced. You need to communicate with officials in their "language" faster (well, they are enlightened at the same time).

[Postcode]

The fashionable term "tactical medicine", I, everyone thinks how they used to live without this term))) ... well, oh well .. the comrade is very far from the tender procedure, that's why he writes (says) such nonsense. Before organizing and holding a tender, a Terms of Reference is formed for what needs to be purchased and produced. The main problem is not that in the race for cheapness they will buy low-quality, or unnecessary, the main thing is that in 80% of those tasks there is no clear description of what is needed, with clear data (length, width, thickness, color, weight , material of manufacture, load capacity, etc., etc.). The specialized service of the Moscow Region is responsible for these characteristics, and it is she who prepares this Terms of Reference. Therefore, the question is to those who declared just such a tourniquet, and not another. The second, to whom the question is, is military acceptance. so that at the factory / plant they shipped exactly what was in those tasks .... and there is no need to refer to the race for cheapness ...

[single-n]

What are you!! If you clearly define the requirements and normally control the acceptance, then HOW TO EARN?!!! You are confusing a private company and the development of the state budget. You will also offer high-quality roads to build. Do you want to shake the boat completely? Can you also focus on the RESULT, and not on the percentage of development? Yes, you are needed for this ......, I really don’t know. Anathema betray. And then you will agree before the confiscation. And there and 37 year looms.
Are you by any chance an adept of Mr. N.? Fu-u-u. Already thrown into sweat. Some ZIPSONutye liberals around.

[Postcode]

A lot of text)))) ... Novopassit to help

[single-n]

A lot of bukaffff, niasilil.
It is a pity that novopassit will not solve supply problems. Although...
Like the one in the classic: "somy grams and no dramas!"
And you can still find a domestic analogue, even more provocative
"Vodka costs a hundred rubles - it doesn't matter,
At least it's not really vodka, it's just water.
The best option is to fill everyone's eyes,
When drunk, life is (badly) visible, it is even easier to live ..
:)

[Postcode]

Yeah, noticeably ... flooded in the morning - the whole day is free))))

[Mikhail3]

Quote from Cap

question to those who said just such a tourniquet, and not another.

The answer is that this tourniquet, this and not the other, is released by whoever needs it. Bringing who needs what they need. And there are no other answers here.

[Postcode]

Therefore, I am writing that at the stage of the Terms of Reference "fingerprints are taken" in the form of signatures of officials, the following, on the Act \ protocol of the military representative or commission. Conditionally, in the budget of the Moscow Region there is a line for military medical support, there is a line for devices and materials. If the tourniquet is not the one, it is worth it (as the wrong one), it was ordered “not like that” (as the doctor describes), the question is not to the manufacturer, but WHY EXACTLY THAT was ordered, or WHY THAT IS NOT ORDERED. Which one is NEEDED? I have a good friend at the headquarters of the rear of the Moscow Region in the fuel and lubricants service. So, they are preparing those tasks for tenders for the supply of diesel fuel, gasoline, aviation kerosene, oils, etc. So, if they indicate the nomenclature for diesel fuel 5 - 7 characters (letters, numbers) markings, they attach tables with the main indicators (T flash , T cloudiness, impurities, etc.) and indicate the need to comply with GOST such and such ..... then everyone understands that only a few manufacturers in the country can withstand these standards (Rosneft, Gazprom, Lukoil, Tatneft, Bashneft ... ) and no problem with that.

[single-n]

Well, you're like a little by God. According to the antimonopoly law, there should be no change in the H-number of participants. A firm with 3 employees and an authorized capital of 10 thousand rubles comes to the auction. Plus is registered in the Caymans. She "falls" by 30 percent. And receives an order. Further, they are already sawing because of their capabilities. where a bribe will be slipped to an inspector, where a document will be forged. And they can merge stupidly. And they will plug holes with whatever they find. And the beginning of this chain often comes from the writing of a "unique TK" that ideally fits the specific products of this particular company. In our city, this is how the administration of the car "bought" for itself
And you can still hold an auction in a "closed" cabal. Just "forgetting" to notify unnecessary people.
And you can still call and hint that either you will give this order to someone you need or you will curse him. Will find fault with every comma. And while you sue your money, 10 years will pass. And everyone works on credit, and you'd rather give 10% than the bank will bankrupt you. And so that you do not buzz too much. You will be "allowed" to earn extra money on another order.
And you will prove all this for years. And even if someone is pinched, then all that threatens him is 2-3 years. We don't throw ours away, do we? Serdyukov and Vasilyeva are an example for you.
Or remember the epic with the construction of the "eastern". There "lost" 10% of the total budget.
For example, an uncle who "mastered" 1,1 billion received 4 years. (Anatoly Ryazanov) But then the guys just completely lost their fear. And they have hard workers from hunger just did not raise a riot.

[Postcode]

That's just the point, because not a little I write about it. The article provides information. about the fact that the harnesses are ordered neither !!! They delivered what they ordered, high-quality, there are no questions, but the order was not correct !!! And the explanation for this is the economy / budget deficit. I wrote that this is not so, for any savings, as such, when compiling the TOR, no one fights, those who draw up the TOR do not have a QPI for budget savings. Yes, they can enter into a criminal conspiracy, and knowingly include in the TOR the indicators of only the manufacturer that produces the "not quite necessary" tourniquet, but, in the story with the quadcopter, boots, and, even, somewhere underwear, this will fail , and this is TOTAL HARNESS)))) and the question is in the form of its section !!! This is not a high-tech production, in addition to the famous Armavir factory of rubber products. including No. 8, anyone can handle this)))) The Nokian plant, Perelli are already ours too)))))

[single-n]

who draws up the TOR no QPI for budget savings.

Come on. At one time he worked in the largest Russian state communications corporation. I had the pleasure of seeing such a picture. The head of the workshop sent a request for the purchase of tool bags to the installers. (10 pcs) The answer from Moscow is: "let them go with bags." At the Russian Post, employees bought stationery for their own.
Well, with harnesses here you need to figure it out. The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are about 1 million people + how much you need to put in first-aid kits for posts / equipment. + This is already several million pieces. As Raiki said there: "100 thousand people for one ruble each will be .... Crazy money."
Put on 100 r per piece and voila, here you are - from 100 million "correct" profit :))
Also, what is their shelf life? They also need to be updated. So if it weren’t for the SVO, then no one would have sniffed about it. And the guys would have a modest gesheft. For several tens/hundreds of millions per year. :)

[Postcode]

We are talking about different things again, or rather you ..... my message is what? I do not see any fundamental difference in the production of a bundle, a simple bundle of the REQUIRED SECTION !!!! This does not significantly affect (if at all) the rise in production costs! The case with bags, well, with everything from the other side. The thing is that everyone decided to buy harnesses, everyone decided that they need 2 million (for example), there is money for this, BUT they ordered harnesses with the wrong shape !!! EVERYBODY! The only question is this ... everything else is just some speculation and fantasies .... about the budget it works in your example with packages, in the example with a tank (Armata), but not here, here about the head, competence and responsibility.

[single-n]

Agree. Nobody canceled the factor of incompetence either. It remains only to find out if this is really stupid or, after all, someone, mowing down like a fool, has acquired a couple of hundred square meters of luxury real estate. Just a mess is sometimes beneficial to those who make money on the quiet. And then this system of control and decision-making does garbage even when there is no selfish intent.

[Postcode]

Well, the saying in Russia has always worked about "muddy water", there is no point in arguing here)))

[Mikhail3]

And who guards the watchmen?) I know how this system works. Watchmen, even honest ones (although there are none), in principle, are not an option. "If you live in the tar, you will inevitably get dirty") But if you don't want to, they will get dirty. And if you try to wash yourself, you will drown in the same basin. Purely by chance. When everything is THIS way, nothing helps. Nothing. At all.

[Foul skeptic]

Before organizing and holding a tender, a Terms of Reference is formed for what needs to be purchased and produced. The main problem is not that in the race for cheapness they will buy low-quality, or unnecessary, the main thing is that in 80% of those tasks there is no clear description of what is needed, with clear data (length, width, thickness, color, weight , material of manufacture, load capacity, etc., etc.).

The main problem is that 99% of the TK is written for a specific participant. Moreover, often by a particular participant himself. With such conditions that it was possible to weed out others even simply on a formal basis.

[single-n]

The question is not in the tender system, but in the system of acceptance and responsibility for the supply of low-quality goods .. If the "darling" military receivers punished the ruble for the supply of feces, then everything would be normal. But then, with what money will respected people build mansions?

[fuffi]

just the requirements for the product must be written correctly, and not through one place. then the supplier will not be able to supply garbage instead of a quality product. otherwise it’s too lazy to think, at the stage of preparing the purchase, they will prescribe a “remedy to stop bleeding” and then complain that they brought elastic bands from their underpants.

[Zadok]

I don't understand, what do you want? in the Second World War, peasants built tanks and planes for the Motherland. I, who did not participate in the database, bought the uniform myself, through ensigns, because what the Motherland gave out could only be wrapped and burned. it is clear that today any fighter is preoccupied with his equipment, including a first-aid kit, and will buy everything for himself, because the Motherland does not care a little: "here's a harvest of cartridges, karamultuk and go"

[Mikhail3]

We have good, conscientious manufacturers.

lying is bad. Although profitable, of course) We had such manufacturers. Quite a long time ago. But they are no more, they were destroyed by Chinese cheap crap. Everyone knows this, but they prefer not to say, because they don’t want to be branded as a detractor, for example. I do not care anymore...
The system of tenders, of course, is not good for anything in any industry. Because cheap means shitty, this absolute truth, given to us in sensation, we have learned perfectly well over the past 30 years. Yes, expensive is not always good. But about the cheap ... Everything is clear here.
Yes, all additional features are added to tenders. But they do not serve any other purpose than the ability to shove their own and pull the nose of all strangers) The public procurement system, in principle, cannot be debugged in such a way that it is possible to obtain a high-quality, balanced price / quality product. Not under capitalism guys)
Even socialism had a sea of ​​​​problems in this regard, and even now ... It is worth remembering, for example, that in the same USA, army goods are sold on a civilian basis at bargain prices precisely because they are ... bad. Always worse quality than civilian ones. Since we have a capitalist country, then our soldiers will be dressed in bullshit, shoot crappy ammunition and work with bad military systems. Such is the price of enriching the few. Death of many. That's the way it is.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Mikhail3

The system of tenders, of course, is not good for anything in any industry.

suppose .. they removed the tender system .. Do you remember what happened before it? Is it better when there is no competition at all, but only at the will of the boss, the supplier is selected?

Quote: Mikhail3

Since we have a capitalist country, then our soldiers will be dressed in bullshit

here, despite a lot and moving away from a hostile attitude, but the same minke whales, with supplies in the army, are doing well .. and they are ardent capitalists .. how is it? maybe the question is in responsibility, and not in the system?

[Mikhail3]

If "Gop my Greeks" is recorded on a tape cassette, you will not hear Bach's fugue during playback, do not play with the settings. Vladimir Savchenko once said well, right?)
Read carefully. I said - it's not good in principle) Nothing will work at all. Now everything is exactly the same as it used to be. Everything is just arranged differently. Ivanov, who sculpted shit before, was put in jail so that Mamedov would come in his place with exactly the same shit, designed differently.
Your opposition between "before" and "now" is ridiculous. Nothing has changed. And yes, it is possible to arm a small formation properly under capitalism. This is when one capitalist stole money somewhere, so that somewhere people swell with hunger, and dragged it to another place where he spent it. But this is not a method of warfare, it is a method of supplying a small gang.
Problems under capitalism, which in principle cannot be solved, first of all arise with large-scale tasks, when you can’t get by with private jars. And the state, being the main instrument of the capitalist robbery of all for the benefit of the few, can only work the way it does. Fundamentally inefficient.
Do you really think that our ancestors, having nothing to do, went to death, and often terrible and fierce? Laying down their lives to bring down this damned system? And the whole world hoped for them, desperately hoped ... read Wells' materials on a trip to the USSR.

[fuffi]

Quote: Pulkovo1942

Tender system in medicine in general and in military medicine

The tender system is competition and inevitable progress! It's just that competition in Russia is built on an unfair basis. I was always moved by the fact that incompetent Russian officials cannot even use the mechanisms tested by the West for decades)

I propose to give you a boomerang that the Aborigines of Australia have been using for hundreds of years and look at you on the hunt

[Wladimir134]

The problem is that absolutely ALL tenders are played for one specific customer. And if by chance someone took this tender, he will never close it. AND DON'T SHOULD BE BAD. This is how it works for us. And then think for yourself. And those tasks are written for them. And if someone thinks differently, he did not participate in tenders, this is in procurement. In construction, I don’t think it’s different

[vovochkarzhevsky]

It happens to everyone. It's just that very often the requirements are spelled out in such a way that in fact they are a struggle between greed and common sense.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

It's not about the tender, which in itself is a good idea. But they need to know how to use it. Then you will buy high-quality goods and mark resellers.
However, when announcing a tender, many contractors often prescribe only price limits and that's it. Moreover, they are usually focused on the cheapest product. That is why this is the result.
Meanwhile, it is very important to stipulate, first of all, the requirements for the product, such as properties, material of manufacture, service life, operating conditions, and so on, including the supplier's warranty and his responsibility.
And this is a very large amount of work that must not be lazy to do. And do not be surprised if it suddenly turns out that there is simply no product with the necessary properties on the market at the desired price, it is much more expensive. And there are only two exits. The first is to reduce requirements, in short, to buy outright bullshit. The second exit is much more difficult, you need to go to the leadership, submit reports with the motivation for the need to increase funding. And with competent leadership, no problems will arise if the subordinates did not hack, and these same reports were compiled correctly.

[fuffi]

Quote: -Paul-

By law, it is just impossible to specify the model and manufacturer.

if you can't, but really want it, you can. By the way, it depends on the region. in some you can. we will easily kill this. but to write a description of the object of purchase so that no other product is suitable, except for the right one, this is precisely the key to success.

[Sasha from Uralmash]

And what about the children of graduates, Sorov programs, sitting in the ministries!

[bravo77]

Well, why do you need a normal first-aid kit if you don’t dare to fight with the second army of the world
And there in 3 years to write off.
And boutiques in the west are bursting with beautiful status clothes.