The political scientist proposed to form a group of physicists and mathematicians to model and calculate the defense of Donetsk from the artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

The shelling of Donetsk, the administrative center of the Donetsk People's Republic, has intensified in recent weeks. Almost every day there are reports of attacks on residential areas, hospitals, schools. However, such actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) may be caused by the desire to "smudge" at the last moment, before the conditions for shelling the city are significantly reduced or disappear.

In fact, the Ukrainian formations still have quite a few convenient closed positions from which they can fire at the center of Donetsk from cannon and rocket artillery.

Political scientist Aleksey Chadayev believes that nothing prevents control of these positions with the help of Russian artillery, if unmanned aerial vehicles are used correctly Aviation and have "in reserve" a pair of self-propelled gun divisions on duty with 3 batteries each. Then it will be possible to give an immediate response to every shelling of Donetsk by Ukrainian formations. However, there are some nuances, and they depend not only on the military.

This requires the adoption of organizational decisions, the creation of a dedicated subdivision of the level, albeit a truncated, but an artillery regiment, dedicated specifically to the defense of the city, with the most pumped-out reconnaissance-target designation-analytics unit. And the appearance of a commander, in whose area of ​​​​responsibility it is and only this task

- пишет Chadaev in his Telegram channel

The political scientist believes that now it would be nice to gather a group of scientists - physicists and mathematicians, who would calculate how to properly organize the defense of Donetsk from artillery. At one time, the air defense system over Moscow was designed in this way - back in Stalin's time. But at present, Russian science, including physics and mathematics, is practically not involved in any way to achieve the goals of a special military operation, writes Chadayev. The author writes that it is not necessary to say that the defense of Donetsk is a matter exclusively for the military. To build a truly effective protection system, it is now necessary to involve civilian specialists.

And the state should pay attention to this.

Comments

[forty-eighth]

scientists are not particularly needed for this. Strictly speaking, politicians are needed even less

[Civil]

That is, a political scientist (why is he needed at all) does not know about the availability of special software systems for these purposes.

[Nikolay310]

a political scientist, he should be a specialist in politics ... but he may not know about military subtleties ... just it’s not clear why, with his ignorance, climb into someone else’s monastery ... he would discuss Slutsky and Bout for himself, since you are a political scientist

[akropin]

As a sane person, a political scientist should understand that the farther the enemy’s guns are, the less likely they are to arrive.

[Ohsetin]

it’s just not clear why, with your ignorance, climb into someone else’s monastery ...
He, once again, climbed into his own. A request has long been formed among the masses: "When will one of the goals of the NMD be achieved and Donetsk will be protected from shelling?" But, since from a military point of view, the situation there is a stalemate and political scientists have run out of "explanations". Here is a new vector of "solution" for you: now we will convene a government commission of mathematicians and physicists, they will give you a scientific work, it will be handed over to the military, and then we will see, we will find another way to explain why it failed again.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Civil

That is, a political scientist (why is he needed at all) does not know about the availability of special software systems for these purposes.

Well, no matter how it is not included in his duties, if he has them .

[Svetlana]

Vice versa. We need heads that are friendly with mathematics and able to calculate the probabilities of finding the enemy at a certain point. Capable of creating mathematical models of battlefields.
The military is taught to obey orders and properly handle the weapons that are created civil specialists and scientists.
Read why, civilian Nikanorov, received the Stalin Prize.

[nickname7]

heads that are friendly with mathematics and able to calculate probabilities

What's with the math? Better get an astrologer.
The firing areas are well known, it’s just that the Armed Forces of Ukraine quickly change positions in mathematics there are no methods for calculating himars, but this is done with the help of counter-battery combat, here we are faced with technical backwardness, alas, neither Copperfield nor a mathematician will help here.

[Svetlana]

While math is queen
Sciences. Or do you think that your iPhone will solve everything? And the tanks you play were created by naturalists?

[nickname7]

math is queen
Sciences.

Mathematicians count numbers, there are numbers almost everywhere, but this does not mean that a mathematician can solve the issue of shelling.
The issue of the shelling of Donetsk is organizational and technical, which means that not only a mathematician, but even a veterinarian will not help.

Or do you think that your iPhone will solve everything

What do you think Gary Potter's magic wand will solve, and not a Raptor-level drone?

And the tanks you play were created by naturalists?

And the cabbage soup that you cook was created by mathematicians?

[Svetlana]

Read why, civilian Nikanorov, received the Stalin Prize.

You didn't respect. He owning the theory, and not being a military man, organized the air defense of Moscow during World War II

[nickname7]

owning the theory

There is no such theory in the mathematics of counter-battery combat.
In the 40s, air defense was a new trend, there was no experience, it was not mathematics as such that was used, but an educated smart person took up solving a hitherto unknown problem,
now vast experience in air defense has been created, it is taught by the military, who know more than that mathematician. DPR officers know everything about shelling, no amount of mathematics can help them. UAVs and counter-battery combat stations will help, but which are not.

[PROXOR]

removed from the tongue. Here is one calculation. Drive the enemy to the WEST.

[SKVichyakow]

Quote: PROXOR

removed from the tongue. Here is one calculation. Drive the enemy to the WEST.

Maybe it's better to calculate WHAT we can destroy them faster and with confidence?

[PROXOR]

If we need a bunch of scientists to figure out what to drive, then why do we need military specialists who graduated from the military academy?
You can roll in minuses for me, but I am already firmly convinced that this long war is also beneficial to someone here. It will not be difficult for us to gain dominance in the sky. Well, nobody does that.

[SKVichyakow]

Quote: PROXOR

someone here also benefits from this long war. It will not be difficult for us to gain dominance in the sky. Well, nobody does that.

And I am a supporter of not rushing, not for years of course. All of them must feel the consequences of their sanctions, the cold winter, ... And it seems that there is no need to gain air supremacy at this stage, the main thing was to suppress it in the bulk. We need this time for self-mobilization of everything and everyone, as they say. And it turns out that Serdyukovism has done a lot of things. Everything needs to be fixed quickly.

[Svetlana]

If we need a bunch of scientists to figure out what to drive, then why do we need military specialists who graduated from the military academy?

Scientists today create what warriors fight with.

A blacksmith forges a sword, a groom raises a horse, a peasant grows bread. The soldier eats the bread grown by that peasant, fights with the blacksmith's sword and moves on that groom's horse

[huntsman650]

Everything needs to be tried. Cool head and accurate calculation!

[Andy_nsk]

Everything needs to be tried.

Oh... Don't!!!!

[huntsman650]

Sit straight on your butt or will it affect you somehow.?)

[Andy_nsk]

No need to tryndet about what has neither an ear nor a snout.

[huntsman650]

Write this to the author of the article). Are you an instructor?

[Andy_nsk]

No, but I know enough mathematics to understand that scientists (mathematicians and physicists) are not needed for counter-battery combat.

[Uprun]

Don't they teach this in the academies of the Moscow Region? Very strange message....

[Andy_nsk]

Don't they teach this in the academies of the Moscow Region? Very strange message....

somehow I was at a training camp and solved problems for the division commander (although not an artilleryman, but an air defense system), who flew to the academy to take tests. Primitive, in my opinion, puzzles. And there is no need to involve mathematicians, all problems from a mathematical point of view have already been solved. We need a well-organized and technically supported reconnaissance for counter-battery combat and the necessary direct connection between reconnaissance and artillery without intermediary generals.

[Stoler]

You don't need to be a "scientist" to understand that the best defense against shelling is DISTANCE !!!

[topol717]

Quote: Stoler

You don't need to be a "scientist" to understand that the best defense against shelling is DISTANCE !!!

Better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick. You are correct, but only now we cannot provide this distance. What to do? when can we wait? Or look for other options?
With a sufficiently large knowledge base about past shelling, and I hope there is one, you can mathematically try to calculate the most probable points from which the shooting was carried out, and what is called observing these points.

[AdAstra]

I would say not just physicists, but quantum physicists... Circus, by God. It would be better if someone from the VPR had, if not steel, then at least ultra porcelain balls.

[Arkady007]

It is not the business of politicians to interfere in the direct conduct of hostilities.

[aglet]

you just need to stop throwing wasted calibers in a thin layer across Ukraine, and shoot them and artillery specifically at marinka and avdiivka in the vicinity of Donetsk, sweep them into dust, occupy them with infantry and move on. the front line will move away from Donetsk, and the shelling will stop. but our commanders are not looking for easy ways - by depriving the people of Kiev of electricity, they want to stop the shelling of Donetsk. the flag in both hands, but it won't work

[nickname7]

wasted calibers

Calibers are expensive, there are decommissioned points-U why they are not used is not clear.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: aglet

but our commanders are not looking for easy ways - depriving the people of Kiev of electricity

Here the people and all the experts for half a year in unison demanded strikes on the infrastructure and energy facilities of Ukraine, and when they began, you question their expediency. How is that?
And yes, the goal of the strikes is to deprive the Kyiv regime of electricity, and not the light in the bulbs of Kiev residents, for whom these are just accompanying troubles.

Quote: aglet

they want to stop the shelling of Donetsk. the flag in both hands, but it won't work

Everything will work out. Soon.

[aglet]

"And when they started, you question their expediency. How is that?"
another goal declared by the fair-faced is the freedom of the inhabitants of Donbass. how will the deprivation of light xoxl in Kyiv protect the inhabitants of Donetsk, and now the Belgorod region? this is pure populism, the results of these shellings are completely unknown, Konashenko can say whatever he wants, you can’t check his words. and the fact that Marinka and Avdiivka, tiny villages five kilometers from Donetsk, have not been able to take it for 10 months, this is a fact, and very easily verified.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: aglet

how will the deprivation of light xoxl in Kyiv protect the inhabitants of Donetsk, and now the Belgorod region? this is pure populism, the results of these shellings are completely unknown

But why? As a result, these are de-energized railways, on which only surviving diesel locomotives can now go, and electric locomotives have fallen asleep on hauls and at dead ends, which makes it difficult to transfer troops, equipment and weapons. These are stopped enterprises for the repair of military equipment and the production of something for the needs of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Light bulbs from Kiev, this is a ride.

Quote: aglet

and the fact that Marinka and Avdiivka, tiny villages five kilometers from Donetsk, have not been able to take it for 10 months, this is a fact, and very easily verified.

There is no point in arguing here, but the presence or absence of electric energy in their capture did not have a decisive role before. The issue here is strategy and tactics.

Quote: aglet

"Everything will work out. Soon"
well, yes. "It won't even take six months"

Six months won't go by. February-March, somewhere like that.

[aglet]

"And yes, the goal of the strikes is to deprive the Kyiv regime of electricity"
Well? deprived? if deprived, it did not greatly affect them. although yes, in Kyiv there are interruptions with 95m gasoline. this is what it probably is!
"Everything will work out. Soon"
well, yes. "It won't even take six months"

[solar]

Do not distract people from the joy of shelling the Ukrainian energy system.
The fact that this has no military significance was obvious from the beginning, but people like it.

[Pulkovo1942]

a pair of self-propelled gun divisions on duty with 3 batteries each

Yes, at least 1000 batteries in each) They are still agreeing on return fire, a couple of days will pass. The army drowned in bureaucracy. And Donetsk, at the current rate of shelling, will become deserted in 2-3 months.

[YOUR]

There is only one option - to physically push back the front line.

[Konnick]

There is only one option - to physically push back the front line.

Yes, only for this you need to win in the counter-battery fight ... A vicious circle is turning out for our army.

[YOUR]

Why vicious circle. Their artillery is knocked out. Vaughn continuously whine give us guns.

[Konnick]

Their artillery is knocked out.

Knocks out ... and when will it knock out? The basis of the defense of Marinka and Avdiivka is artillery defense.
And they whine about shells, not about guns ...

[Mavrikiy]

The political scientist proposed to form a group of physicists and mathematicians to model and calculate the defense of Donetsk from the artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

Shaw, a year later the database, ...... although I agree with

forty eighth (l)
Today, 09: 16
scientists are not particularly needed for this. Strictly speaking, politicians are needed even less

I think we have a problem, just like 100 years ago, in connection and in the mandatory hierarchy of data transmission. We need a data transmission channel from the counter-BB station, directly to the gun, without intermediate commanders of coordinators-thinkers-deciders. Then the targets will not have time to wash off.

[your1970]

Quote: Mavrikiy

We need a data transmission channel from the counter-BB station, directly to the gun, without intermediate commanders of coordinators-thinkers-deciders. Then the targets will not have time to wash off.

You are right - but there is one problem
In 1988, he was a conscript in training at the AZK-5 (sound-measuring reconnaissance). During the exercises, the complex was decomposed and, after undermining the imitators, they had to give data for firing to the assigned 2C3 division.
The bosses were all at meetings.
At this time, tankers (3 pieces) pushed out to the edge of our field - they got lost and decided that this was THEIR target field. Apparently they saw something, although our cars were buried on top of the kunga. And they started shooting
And the complex is launched - the duty officer of the release - a young flyer at the CPU decided that this was such an introductory one. And he confirmed the data for the division .....
And there it doesn’t matter - there is data, there is confirmation, but the fact that there are no fathers of commanders is probably an introductory one, yeah ...
The division fired 2 volleys - after which it suddenly dawned on the tankers that something was wrong here. Specifically, not so ...
Fled away
When the divisional commander yelled at the CPU at the lieutenant, he said that only the fact that they covered him with 2 volleys saves him ...
As they later told us - he was an artilleryman

And in the conditions of real hostilities - we would quite possibly destroy the tankers.
Their...
Just because in between there would be no headquarters with information that OUR tanks or infantry went there.

The Amrikans on the empty (!!) island of Kiska managed to kill several hundred fighters from friendly fire.
And you propose to exclude the body that owns all the data, which will dramatically increase the likelihood of this with us

[nickname7]

And you propose to exclude the body that owns all the data

В
So this is done not on the entire theater of operations, but on a narrow section and temporarily. It is necessary to remove everything friendly in a certain sector for a day, and only in this sector to destroy all identified positions immediately upon detection. Give the SAO platoon a drone for guidance and adjustment and the Penicillin system, and let the headquarters follow the negotiations and actions, but without interfering, it will be safe and fast.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: your1970

Do you offer exclude the authority owning all the data- which will dramatically increase the likelihood of this with us

The authority should work out the situation in the sector in advance, remove all unnecessary. Perhaps the shelling of Donetsk is carried out with intensive our fire in order to complicate the fight. Then preliminary firing at the front should be carried out either with smaller calibers or smaller charges ....

[your1970]

Quote: Mavrikiy

The authority should work out the situation in the sector in advance, remove all unnecessary.

the discussion was about passing the headquarters as an intermediary

Quote: Mavrikiy

We need a data transmission channel from the counter-BB station, directly to the gun, without intermediate commanders of coordinators-thinkers-deciders. Then the targets will not have time to wash off.

That is, they suggested - yeah, they shoot / attack - directly from intelligence immediately to artillery.
The fact that to repel an attack - the headquarters can send infantry / tanks, and the gunners know about it knowingly they won’t - it will just lead to friendly fire.

And yes - no "Remove everything superfluous in advance" will work in a war - the enemy has a bad habit of not coordinating his attacks with us

[Glory1974]

A person tries to do something, but does not observe indifferently. In my opinion, he gave an example when, in 1941, a mathematician calculated the most convenient places for deploying air defense forces around Moscow. I don't know if that helped, but it certainly didn't hurt.
Our generals do not use the achievements of science, but in vain. During the Olympics in Sochi, it was necessary to resolve many organizational issues, including, for example, the procedure for screening visitors to the stadium. They decided who was in what much, but meanwhile these issues had been studied for a long time and dissertations were written. But not a single scientist was involved in this. This is as an indicator.
And if they turned to scientists more, maybe there would not be unfortunate failures in the organization of hostilities.
I would also attract psychics. To protect people, all means are good, we must try and do it, and not sit and say that we are doing everything we can, but it doesn’t work.

[nickname7]

in 1941, a mathematician calculated

Then only illiteracy was liquidated, but education was poor, a mathematician could help, but in the future this technique becomes a routine that is studied in officer schools. Any officer can do this, especially since decisions are made in large headquarters where everything has long been known.

I would also attract psychics

Call Copperfield, he will definitely help.

[Glory1974]

Any officer can do this, especially since decisions are made in large headquarters where everything has long been known

There is just no result. At the same time, no one knows where they will shoot from next time, including in large headquarters.

Call Copperfield, he will definitely help.

Copperfield magician, will not help exactly.

[nickname7]

There is just no result

Because in addition to knowing, you need to be able through technical means, which are not in sufficient quantity. Mathematicians here are like a dead poultice.

[Glory1974]

in addition to knowing, you need to be able through technical means, which are not in sufficient quantity.

We do not have guidance documents on drones, but the Armed Forces of Ukraine do. How can we organize round-the-clock duty with the help of drones, which are not enough, in the shortest possible time, how to calculate flight trajectories, coordinate detection ranges, time to open fire, hit targets, etc.?
solid math. It’s good if they teach this at a military school, but there are vague doubts that it isn’t.
And this is where mathematics comes into play. For interest, you can read in the tlg channel what they already offer.

[nickname7]

round-the-clock duty, how to calculate flight trajectories, coordinate ranges

Nonsense, this can easily be done by an ordinary layman with 11 classes of education.
Secondly, there is only one way to save the Donbass from shelling - you need to defeat the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Avdiivka area and move the front 120 km from the last house and there will be no more shelling. And mathematics is in favor of the poor, a distraction from the Kremlin's strategic mistakes.

[FoBoss_VM]

And the calculation here is very simple: the farther the front line is pushed back, the less likely it is to strike

[1razvgod]

Well, it's kind of a bummer to be honest. There is no need to reinvent the wheel, it has long been known how to deal with it. Chadaev apparently decided to promote

[Joker62]

The political scientist proposed to form a group of physicists and mathematicians to model and calculate the defense of Donetsk from the artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

Looks like a commissariat style.
They do more harm than good. And always confused under the feet / hands.

[Amateur]

Another talker. What for "in Stalin's times" it was necessary to create a group of mathematicians and physicists, is now solved in a few seconds by a tablet. That's just where these calculations go and why they are not used in counter-battery combat is a big question.
ps Any shelling of Israeli territory leads to the fact that its aviation "levels" the area from which the shooting was carried out.

[your1970]

Quote: Amateur

Any shelling of Israeli territory leads to the fact that its aviation "levels" the area from which the shooting was carried out.

And the Americans equalize everything ..
Only now, neither Israel nor the United States - did not live, do not live and plan to live TOGETHER(!!!!) - with those whom they equate ...
And it is not philanthropy or the memory of genocide that stops Israel from using nuclear weapons or chemical weapons in Palestine, but only the fact that the wind can bring infection back to them and that's all ....
And we plan to live together with the liberated territories - that's the difference ...

[Amateur]

do not live and plan to live TOGETHER (!!!!) - with those whom they equal ...

You don't read other people's comments carefully. Israel "levels" not all of Palestine, but only the area from which the shelling was carried out.
A couple of square kilometers, on which there are guns shelling Donetsk and which need to be turned into a "scorched earth" - this is not the whole of Ukraine.
ps The authors of the Soviet thesis about "fraternal peoples" were so atheists that they forgot the biblical story about Cain and Abel. Their blood brotherhood did nothing to stop Cain from killing his brother.

[your1970]

Quote: Amateur

Israel "levels" not all of Palestine, but only the area from which the shelling was carried out.

-that's why Hamas is shelling Israel from residential areas, after which it is periodically shown in the news that Israel has again blasted residential areas

Quote: Amateur

A couple of square kilometers on which there are guns shelling Donetsk

do you seriously believe that these cannons are standing in the middle of the bare steppe?

Quote: Amateur

The authors of the Soviet thesis about "fraternal peoples" were so atheists that they forgot the biblical story of Cain and Abel. Their blood brotherhood did nothing to stop Cain from killing his brother.

- Well, if you start from this biblical the message must be destroyed ALL population of Ukraine without exception.
Just in case...
Yes?

[Wedmak]

Yeah, bring the Academy of Sciences. Something I doubt that any artillery officer will not be able to calculate from where they are firing at Donetsk. And if there are machines like Penicillin, then there will be no problems at all. The problem is different - in the destruction of these nomadic MLRS. We don't succeed. And all you need to do is organize surveillance of a few possible areas. It is high time to allocate funds for the hunt for these reptiles.
Not so long ago, I talked about kamikaze drones with great autonomy to hang for hours (3-4 hours, no less) over enemy positions and the possibility of returning. They objected to me - they say there is no need for such. Here is the direct use of such devices - the search and destruction of nomadic MLRS, mortars, artillery.

[the same doctor]

There is no need for such simulations. There is a need and a political will. The problem, as in the spring, is the same: exchange the destruction of sand and other cities for the salvation of Donetsk, or allow the destruction of Donetsk, and then destroy the Sands anyway. Someone up there is very humane and, taking pity on the cat, cuts its tail piece by piece.

[AndreyKa54076]

These are the political scientists who sit in the Kremlin, the government, the General Staff ...

[megadeth]

Since they could not protect people in Donetsk, they had to be evacuated (yes, it's not too late now). We would have found a place to place it, Mother Russia is big and we have good people. I no longer have the strength to watch how these ukroghouls destroy the civilian population in Donetsk and in neighboring settlements.

[Hey]

Correctly, he raised the issue of protecting Donetsk, because someone had to raise it and offered his own solution, for 10 months the Ministry of Defense cannot do this for various reasons, having weapons and reconnaissance equipment, which, by the way, mathematicians and physicists created for them and it did not teach its subordinates to use them in full force. Therefore, scientists are again needed to organize all the measures of counter-battery combat based on large areas and distances. This model may be useful for other cities and territories. The battery commander can calculate actions within his area of ​​​​responsibility, and then he no longer controls everything that will be left or right. The commander of all artillery himself is not able to make all the calculations (it’s just that his brains are not designed for this and they are already sour for mathematics due to age and without training). But he is able and empowered to organize events for the interaction of scientists and his subordinates.

[Lord]

They would have conveyed through non-official channels that artillerymen would not be taken prisoner
Can someone think

[iouris]

Protection (and not only Donetsk) will be provided when the "fritzes" are destroyed or capitulate and compensate for material damage. Twenty years after the victory, another generation of Fritz will grow up and it all depends on what kind of "content" the winners will force them to consume. The Russian Federation has no options but to win.

[cpls22]

As far as I understand, the person suggested calculating not the firing points, which are constantly changing, but the places where the guns hide after firing from these points. It's like calculating the approximate location of his lair from the murder sites of a maniac, and then narrowing the search circle with the help of other signs.
If the hiding places are known, then it is easier to calculate the points of interception of guns to their arrival at the firing line, wherever he is.
A man offers a case - why not try?

[agond]

A political scientist could say that if we again approach Kuev, the shelling of our territory and Donetsk will stop.

[iouris]

Quote from cpls22

A man offers a case - why not try?

"Man" does not take into account the time factor. Why? After all, the situation has dynamics. Do you see dynamics? In general, of course, it is necessary to develop approaches to the automated determination of potential sites that are highly likely to be points from which strikes are launched. This will allow more effective reconnaissance of enemy firepower and reduce reaction time.

[cpls22]

If the location of the guns is known, then there is more time for their interception from the moment the exit from the shelter is detected and until the start of firing. Is not it ? Shooting points can be immeasurably more than fully providing shelter, repair and replenishment of ammunition.
It is the latter that need to be calculated and pastured.

[flyer]

How far the majority of political scientists in our country are far from reality... From such political scientists it is necessary to form battalions of political officers. With a modern "political scientist-political officer" and jokes are not needed.

[Gromovanton]

Perhaps I will disappoint someone, but scientists are not needed here - we just need our successes at the front. Until the front is moved at least 40 km away from Donetsk, it will always be possible to hit it even from the old Soviet systems, and 152 mm is seriously wherever it arrives. And for each shell, no shells are enough.
Of the most common orgmers of the simplest - at least air raid signals and messages in which area it flies ...
https://donbasstoday.ru/v-dnr-na-postoyannoj-osnove-zarabotali-sireny-vozdushnoj-trevogi/. Вот пишут что теперь работает на постоянной основе - что это значит -раньше не работала, не на постоянной основе и что такое на постоянной и почему вдруг только теперь на постоянной не берусь комментировать.

[Fangaro]

A group of intelligence officers, IT professionals, politicians, financiers and economists can do better by using their leverage.
Make sure that officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, mercenaries from other countries, soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine lose their money. And many will leave the front line.