Military Review

Pain and poverty of Russian artillery

470
Pain and poverty of Russian artillery

I will start with a quote from the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, Hero of Russia, General of the Army S. K. Shoigu and from large calibers.


“Counter-battery combat is being improved as one of the main tasks of fire destruction of the enemy. Long-range rocket artillery systems "Tornado-S" and artillery systems of high power "Malka" are involved in its implementation. This allows you to effectively hit foreign rocket and artillery systems.

How do I understand it? And so, that Soviet 2S7 Pion guns will be removed from long-term storage warehouses, and they will be worked on within the walls of Uraltransmash, turning Peonies into 2S7M Malki. Given that there are more than 250 2S7 guns in storage, there is work to be done.


What is the conversion of "Peony" into "Malka"? This is de-Ukrainization and digitalization. That is, they remove the Ukrainian engine and gearbox and install everything Russian. Digitalization implies a more modern stuffing. A new system of guidance, range calculation, firing direction, communication with satellites and unmanned aerial vehicles, as well as automated preparation of a shot, has appeared. Doubled (from 4 to 8) the number of shots in the ammunition load.

Here, however, as there was no UAV in the kit, it is not. But if anything, "Malka" can easily communicate with him and work according to data from the reconnaissance board.

So, if you believe the data of the RF Ministry of Defense, we have about 60 self-propelled guns 2S7M "Malka" in our troops. And at least 150 more can be quickly prepared at the plant from Peonies.

This is good? No. With the super-dense fire of Russian artillery, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are already able to fight with the help of "Haymars".

But let's look at it this way. You can increase the number of 203 mm barrels. But they, guns, need shells. How many of them we have in our arsenals, it is unrealistic to say who releases and whether releases - too. And then, to shoot a disc weighing 50 kg for almost 110 km is half the battle. It is necessary that he, the shell, hit somewhere. Not to the target area, but to the target.

And what is needed for this? That's right, modern guidance systems. What's the point of a modernized cannon from the 60s of the last century if it is not able to provide accurate shooting? We return to the times of the First World War, when the destruction of the enemy was ensured by the hours of work of artillery regiments?


No, of course, today there are precision-guided projectiles. This, unlike missiles, is a very serious topic, since the projectile is unrealistically difficult to intercept in flight. What is Excalibur, what is Krasnopol.

What is the name of the high-precision projectile for "Malka"? That's right, no way. He is not.

Although in 2020, in November, the industrial director of the Rostec weapons complex, Bekhan Ozdoev, in an interview with RIA “News” announced the intention of Rostec to provide Malka with modern guided munitions.

“We have worked out options for a deeper modernization of the gun with the development of a new generation of ammunition, including guided ones. We have forwarded these proposals to the customer.”

Year 2022 - "... the dead with scythes stand along the roads ... And silence ...».

And the “Peonies” removed from storage will turn into “Malki” and continue to hit the squares. Like 110 years ago. Because no matter how hard I tried to find a mention of a 203-mm guided or corrected projectile from Rostec, I did not find anything.

Of course, an increase in the number of long-range guns to such quantities can significantly increase the firepower of Russian artillery. However, there are two huge BUTs here:

1. Russian industry is not in a position to provide the artillery troops today with at least a minimally sufficient amount of reconnaissance and control equipment, as well as guided and corrected munitions.

2. "Hold our beer," the Hymars' crew said. To be honest, this rocket system has practically nullified all the advantage of Russian artillery, quantitative and qualitative. Against the stupid firing on the squares, the Ukrainians, led by the Americans and the British, responded with very accurate hits on the military infrastructure.

In the end, the reality is this: Russian barrels fire thousands of projectiles, forming a "lunar landscape" with very little effect. And you can get a response, and it’s very painful.






And here it is time to talk about counter-battery combat.

This is an important element of the war. It became clear and understandable how important the KBS was back in 2014, and for Donetsk it has not lost its relevance to this day.

The fact that we have KBS, even despite the fact that the Minister of Defense of Russia himself spoke about it, is a very controversial statement. Well-established counter-battery firing today can be justly boasted by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. They have everything for this - how to detect, how to correct, how to shoot.

Of course, from time to time, Ukrainians also snatch in response, at least there is video evidence of the destruction (or hits) of American M777 howitzers. Yes, when it turns out to calculate this not very mobile weapon, then, of course, everything that can fly over it flies. But the M777 really has a minus - the howitzer is not very mobile, that's why it gets it. Unlike the Hymars, which work on the principle of "arrived - fired - left." And nothing can be done with them, because everything about everything takes no more than five minutes.

Why? Yes, everything is elementary: but there is nothing. Yes, seriously, in the Russian army, where "more than 70% of new equipment”, There is practically nothing to carry out CBS.

Now the opponents of the “all-propellers” will immediately object to me: what about 1B75 and 1B76 “Penicillin”? How about our ultra-modern sound-thermal complex? About which so much has been said and so much has been said?


The whole problem is that they actively praised it, but to see / read about the real ... no, not the application. There was no need for real production and entry into the troops, although it appears in the “lists”, that is, it was officially adopted.

By the way, in the same place, in the lists of weapons of the Russian army, there is also such a product as 1B33 AZK-7 Mesotron, to which literally last year RT devoted a mega-laudatory article. Link for those interested / willing to check at the end of the article.


What confuses me here is that the product 1B33 AZK-7 "Mesotron" was developed in the mid-80s by talented Soviet engineers O. M. Marchenko and V. B. Smagin within the walls of the Molniya design bureau in the city of Odessa ... And it was adopted by the Soviet army in 1988. In service with the Armed Forces of Ukraine - in 1991.

Name match? I don't think so. Of course, it is possible that everything there has been modernized and redone, but the sediment from the “new complex” remains. So the “newest” AZK-7M is a thirty-year-old Soviet complex with Ukrainian roots.

The same is true of the Zoo.


The complex was created as a replacement for the terribly unsuccessful 1RL239 "Lynx". It was created as long and dreary as the Lynx, because the following was started: two parallel projects, Zoo-1 (developer of the Strela Research Institute) and Zoo-2 (developer of Iskra Research and Production Company, Zaporozhye, Ukraine). The beginning of work on the complexes - the end of the 80s, the Russian army "Zoo-1" stood in 2008, the Armed Forces of Ukraine "Zoo-2" - in 2003.


"Zoo-2" APU

With the "Zoo-1" happened about the same as with the "Lynx" - the complex proved to be absolutely unusable, and its modernization immediately began. But Zoo-1M was accepted only on the third attempt, having changed members of the selection committee twice, because no one wanted to take responsibility and adopt IT. Therefore, the Russian "Zoo" entered service much later than the Ukrainian one.

"Tests" in Syria showed that, despite the full support of the generals from Moscow, the "Zoo" turned out to be worthless and expensive crap. CBO only once again showed this.

There are sites on the other side where Ukrainian specialists compare their own and our equipment (for obvious reasons, there will be no proofs, Google will help), since they now have a shaft of our equipment. So, in comparison with their own, older Zoo-2, they wiped their feet on ours. Say, everything and everything is like that - but it’s not. Reviews about our T-90M were very respectful and on the verge of admiration. There was a tank major as an expert - he unequivocally said that the T-90M would have done complete chaos, and that this tank is much better than the latest T-64BV model.

However, the best indicator of the "effectiveness" of the "Zoo" can be considered the fact that since 2002, no country in the world has concluded a contract with Rosoboronexport to purchase this miracle.

In many media (and in the catalogs of the Ministry of Defense) such products as 1RL232 SNAR-10 "Leopard" and 1RL232M1 SNAR-10M "Panther" are mentioned. It is, of course, tears.


The Leopard was developed from 1966 to 1971, the last cars were assembled in 1991. What is now in the army is completely unnecessary trash. It is impossible to say how much work is going on on the Panther, the essence of which boils down to installing the 1RL133-3 Credo-1E on the Leopard base.


But it is worth noting that there are good reviews from the troops about Credo as a fully functional station, the only problem of which is the frequent burnout of electronics on the channels.

By the way, the same is said about the 1L271 "Aistenok", which, as an artillery reconnaissance station, is not bad, it can see its gaps, equipment well, but the accuracy of detecting flying projectiles, mines and enemy firing positions leaves much to be desired.


But there are reports of how, with the help of Aistenok, they successfully crushed mortar batteries in the DPR.

But everyone has the same pain - a maximum of two weeks of hard daily work - and the microcircuits burn like candles. There is simply no reliability, mainly due to the use of microcircuits not of the “we need” type, but of the “set what they gave” type.

In general, the situation is as follows: apart from words about the importance of CBS, nothing more. That is why the arrivals of missiles are still somehow trying to reflect our air defense, but with artillery shelling, which are performed by mobile groups of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, they look more and more serious - everything is bad.

The problem is that two armies clashed - one from the time of the First World War (this is Russian), the second - the level of the 1990 Gulf War. And alas, the second army really nightmares the first. And the first one cannot do anything about it, because the second army has a huge advantage: it sees farther and better, it exchanges information faster at all levels, it is more mobile.

Russian artillery today has simply huge problems. It is difficult, perhaps, to say who has fewer of them than the gunners.

Area work. A huge number of trunks. Usually, the “barrage of fire”, which is so colorfully described by the media, is followed by a lull for several days in anticipation of the delivery of ammunition. Well, this can be said to be normal, because logistics has never been a strong point of our army.

There is another doubt that touches the soul a little. But will our factories (surviving in the market) cope with the replenishment of the stock? The reserve sooner or later ... will end. Work in three shifts - it is, of course, yes, but this is on condition that there will be someone to work in these three shifts.

Counter-battery fight. Even worse, because it needs to be provided, but there is nothing to do it. All our "latest" equipment, in fact, again turns out to be slightly modernized Soviet. No, the new "Aistenok" and "Credo" are really not bad, they would still have Soviet reliability and you can really exhale. But alas, not in one place there is a hole, but in another there is a hole.

Equipment. Thank God the slide rules are gone history and on the tables of the gunners there are at least calculators. I had a number of conversations with a lieutenant of one of our artillery regiments, a graduate of this year. True, Comrade Lieutenant graduated not from a military school, but from an ordinary university in my city. But after the release of all those who could (16 people out of 28, which, as it were, hints at the state of health of modern mathematicians), they were taken to the artillery.

What is the dream of a young artillery officer? You won't believe... about being in the 21st century because they were basically in the middle of the 20th. "Tablet-A" or "Tablet-M"? Don't tell me, we are not on the "Army-****". Happiness is to become the owner of an ordinary tablet, in which you can put programs for calculations. And here are two more options, if the commanders are sane, then any tablet that is normal in terms of characteristics will do.

If the commanders "do not shine" - parents knock down their legs in search of tablets without SIM cards. But they do, fortunately.

And so - a notebook, a calculator - and go ahead, carry out a combat mission. A civilian tablet, a smartphone is a misdemeanor in the eyes of some.

Speaking of "some". it about various auditors from division, district and above. Do you know what the big problem of gunners is? The fact that they are at a distance from the front end. And in some cases it is even more difficult for them than for tankers and infantrymen in terms of inspectors, because inspectors love to check where it is safe. And the higher the rank and position of the inspector, the safer he should be.

So to come to the gunners and check how they are there - do not feed honey and do not hang medals. They love it. And they check not the wear of the trunks (still Soviet), not the replenishment of the b / c, not how the fighters are fed. These are things that you need to work on, I'm not afraid of this word!

But to check the cleanliness and completeness of the uniform, whether the boots are statutory, whether towels are available (I'm not kidding, it cost one officer's regiment), whether there is a violation of the secrecy regime (smartphones and tablets), and so on. That is, according to that very long list, which is called "army insanity."

Starley, due to the lack of a bath towel, received a remark, but, apparently, he was wedged, and he simply asked the checking colonel the question: why do they need bath towels if they haven’t seen a bath as such for a month? As a result, the commander received a remark, a starley reprimand, and a report was placed on the table for the regiment commander. As a result, the regimental commander lost a trained officer, but the staff rat with satisfaction gave birth to a report on the work done. I found, you know, an enemy who does not have a bath towel. There is an undermining of the combat state of the entire division, if not the regiment.

How not to remember here the immortal Hasek, who described this?

Reporters, by the way, today are a matter of commonplace.

There are some funny stories too. I won’t name the number, but in one artillery regiment, having received the full program based on the results of the check, they came up with a military trick, since there was a thought, and there was something to implement the trick. "Mavic".

The picture was oil: the division is standing, the colonel from the division headquarters, already initially dissatisfied with what he saw at the disposal, is preparing to carefully examine everything, sort it out in detail and fuck everyone in a row. The division stands in line, the colonel and commanders are in front of the line, and suddenly - such a high and tedious sound of propellers. High, at the limit of hearing. The people in the ranks shook their heads nervously, the inspector tensed. “Today, something earlier than usual,” said the division commander.

The verification, as you understand, did not take place. Thank God, the headquarters already know how the visits of Ukrainian drones end, but they still do not know how to distinguish their own from others. So for now it works.

Total: Soviet hardware radio-electronic base with partially replaced by Chinese civilian microcircuits, calculators and tablets bought on their own or transferred by assistants, civilian Chinese copters purchased at the expense of the rear, issued individually guided projectiles, the absence of such for 122-mm and 203-mm calibers, wretched communication is the present day of Russian artillery.


Against the NATO satellite constellation, unmanned aerial vehicles in sufficient numbers, an excellent communication system that allows you to spend a minimum on data transmission anywhere - this is the artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

There are positives. With shells, the APU is even worse than ours. But Ukrainian gunners are trying to compensate for this with accuracy and operational control.

Trunks, it is worth saying that German and American ones, are definitely worse than Soviet ones and wear out much faster. This is a big plus, because creating “barrages of fire” is not for Ukrainians yet for sure. However, there is no special essence in these senseless firing of tens of thousands of shells either. "Lunar landscape" is certainly impressive, but it impresses with its brutal senselessness, since the shells simply plow fields or residential areas.

Unfortunately, the “God of War”, artillery, which does play a very important role in the war in Ukraine, really looks like some kind of Cinderella. Trying to do at least something with all her might, but alas, without a fairy in any way.

And fairies, alas, are not expected. And the officers, tired of the madness of command, continue to write letters of resignation. And they are being replaced by basically untrained guys from civilian universities. And they, yesterday's graduates, must replace in the ranks those who have been trained for more than one year.

And the prospect after impressive, but useless "barrages" - to be left without shells. Yes, as it was in the First Chechen War. When the cannons and howitzers fall silent, because there will be the last b / c left, which can be spent exclusively at the command of the army commander and no lower. Passed.


Exploration and processing of the received information. Here, at the disposal of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, there is, if not a network-centric system, then its semblance. Ukrainian commanders of artillery units receive the coordinates of the targets and (which is very important) make decisions on their defeat, while Russian artillerymen are forced to spend time (and a fair amount) on coordination and obtaining permits. For Ukrainians, this can be called not network-centricity, but decentralization, but the information put “on a silver platter” to artillerymen is a very important component of the battle.

And yes, far from every coordinate can be fired at by our gunners. There are zones forbidden for artillery fire. It is not known for what reasons, but they are, and there are quite a few of them.

What we have: nothing. Orlan-10, if any, will be at the disposal of the Msta-B battery / division (my interlocutor simply served on them), plus fire control devices - this is not a network-centric control system. This is a UAV operating in the interests of the division. And the data transmitted to them is not seen by either the neighbors, or the tankers, no one. Yes, it's better than nothing, but...

But when you are “better than nothing”, and your opponent is better than you, what does this lead to? That's right, defeat. Well, or "regrouping", which, in principle, is almost the same thing.

Modern Russian artillery (modern - this translates as “currently in service, so it’s all entirely Soviet) will continue to experience big problems in the fight against the artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, on the side of which there are more modern weapons, and - most importantly - more quality information supply.

Unfortunately, in the clash of two artillery, between which more than 100 years of military evolution, the more modern one will definitely bring victory. Falling asleep with shells (tens of thousands) of squares and hoping that something will fly where it needs to - these are the times of the First World War. And it is in this mode that Russian artillery operates.

Many call this approach “all-propal”, threaten to write to Sportloto and other authorities. That is, those who disagree. But then try to answer one question: is the fact that today the Armed Forces of Ukraine is methodically destroying Donetsk - is this normal? Belgorod? Settlements of Kursk, Belgorod, Donetsk, Lugansk, Kherson, Zaporozhye regions?

No, it just takes and destroys. Yesterday Today. Tomorrow will destroy. Excuse me, where is the very counter-battery fight that Shoigu spoke about? Where are the really tracked and destroyed guns and MLRS that fire at Donetsk?

Russian artillery today is somewhat different from what we would like to see. World War I level. And I would like to see the 21st century. Modern guns and MLRS, network-centric systems, satellites, drones, world-class computers, guided missiles and more. That is, the artillery of the modern army.

So far, only Soviet-style artillery systems can be seen, capable of arranging a lunar landscape on hectares. But the "God of War" won't win the war that way.
Author:
470 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. rocket757
    rocket757 12 December 2022 06: 20
    +36
    And sho, written in a standard way, one might say, STYLISH ... that is, who the author is, it's easy to guess.
    However, in essence the article ... yes, there is enough of everything, texture and imagination !!!
    I won’t criticize, I won’t praise either ... in fact, food for thought.
    And for me, the overall picture of what is happening, did not spoil, did not embellish IN ANY WAY !!!
    I have long understood that our "simple infantry Vanya" will bear the brunt of the war on his shoulders !!! Whatever you call him, don’t dress him, don’t describe him, it will be HE!!! soldier
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 December 2022 07: 08
      +17
      Agree with your comment completely. From myself, I note that a guided projectile with an increased range for Pion is really not enough. In addition, it is necessary to increase the range of the aimed shot of our Peonies (Malok), in order to have a longer arm in counter-battery combat. And this is at least to increase the length of the 203mm barrel or think about creating a shot heating system.
      And finally, where are our (albeit few) AWACS aircraft?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 12 December 2022 07: 47
        +10
        I remember all the time ... "We did not prepare for such a war!"
        The question is ... what is now, how are "things" going, what has been done, is being done?
        It’s not worth listing, the secrets are secret, but on the front line, and in the rear, there should be noticeable active movement, changes !!!
        It is clear that time has been lost in many positions and cannot be easily corrected, but there are other methods, albeit an ersatz, but it should work here and now!
        The problem can/should be solved in a complex way....
        1. SKVichyakow
          SKVichyakow 12 December 2022 15: 57
          +10
          Quote: rocket757
          It is clear that time has been lost in many positions and cannot easily be corrected, but there are other methods, albeit an ersatz, but it should work here and now!
          The problem can/should be solved in a complex way....

          Now we are preparing for the ongoing war. And for the next one, we will start preparing in the same way, as the people say, as always? And where are all our services that should solve all these issues ahead of time?
          1. azkolt
            azkolt 12 December 2022 20: 51
            +25
            All our services have one concern, as well as throughout the country, by the way, to fill their purse. This trend has been developing for 30 years and has not changed at all for the last 20 years. When responsible persons are broadcasting something to us about worries on TV, you can even see in their eyes that they are lying like they are breathing! And even now, during the war, you see, wonderful things are happening. The whole world collects for socks for soldiers, all sorts of heaters, and the government allocates 7 billion from the shoulder for ... Russian-language schools in Tajikistan !!! It is clear that all the money in the void! That is how much they paid for Chubais, having previously given him a quiet leave, now to Tajikistan. Either they have nowhere to put their money, or they sneeze from the bell tower on our army!
            1. Beaver
              Beaver 12 December 2022 20: 56
              +4
              And what, the rest of the citizens have a different train?
              1. azkolt
                azkolt 12 December 2022 20: 58
                +4
                I'm talking about everyone. At work, I can discuss all the topics of the CBO with only one person, the rest have the feeling that they sneeze! Say the word patriotism, they will laugh!
                1. alexmach
                  alexmach 13 December 2022 00: 34
                  0
                  Correctly. You really need to work at work :)
                  1. Sidor_Bodrov
                    Sidor_Bodrov 13 December 2022 16: 39
                    +4
                    Yes, you have to work. But there is no right job, and most importantly, no money. For 30 years, the liberal democrats have robbed the country to the bone. A lot went into real estate beyond the cordon, a lot was hidden from prying eyes in their native land.
                    1. vlad106
                      vlad106 14 December 2022 16: 21
                      +8
                      Quote: Sidor_Bodrov
                      There is no right job, and most importantly, no money. For 30 years, the liberal democrats have robbed the country to the bone.


                      THE MAIN THING IS THAT THESE CREATURES DESTROYED THE INDUSTRY...
                      Where is the machine tool?
                      Engineering?
                      Bearing plants, of which there were more than 30 before the collapse ...
                      Where are the semiconductor factories?
                      Electronic?
                      Where is the light industry? Sewing and weaving factories, of which there were thousands ...
                      Now they would be very useful against the background of the disappeared uniforms in the amount of 1,5 million sets
                      shoe factories. Bertsy, boots are probably also in great demand
                      1. Sidor_Bodrov
                        Sidor_Bodrov 14 December 2022 16: 53
                        +1
                        I completely agree. And now these "effective" managers can only rely on the tank sniper KOLYAN, God bless him.
                      2. tikhonov66
                        tikhonov66 15 December 2022 17: 06
                        -3
                        "...
                        Where are the semiconductor factories?
                        Electronic?
                        ..."

                        "Be calm" - everything is in place.
                        In its place.
                        And everyone works.
                      3. Zug
                        Zug 19 December 2022 22: 58
                        0
                        And where are the products "from there" where everyone works? You can’t see her, at least my brother didn’t see her point-blank there and doesn’t see her now.
                      4. Vlad Gor
                        Vlad Gor 18 December 2022 17: 44
                        +1
                        Without bearings, the car will not go, and the plane will not fly.
                    2. tikhonov66
                      tikhonov66 15 December 2022 17: 08
                      -4
                      "...
                      But there is no right job.
                      ..."
                      - CONGENEAL!
                      If you are so smart that you know what kind of work is "right" - then OPEN YOUR BUSINESS.
                      - and you will be happy.
                      8-)))
                      1. Sidor_Bodrov
                        Sidor_Bodrov 16 December 2022 15: 00
                        +1
                        First of all, I am not a businessman. And businessmen have the "correct" job - to break, build and sell on a mortgage, well, or resale at worst. They need a quick and good profit without significant costs. They will not build a bearing plant. The state should invest in production with high costs and a long payback period. The state has no money for this. They can only be obtained through progressive personal income tax, following the example of China.
              2. gsev
                gsev 12 December 2022 21: 21
                +8
                Quote from Beaver.
                And what, the rest of the citizens have a different train?

                The rest of the citizens would not give a penny for schools in Tajikistan.
                1. alexey sidykin
                  alexey sidykin 13 December 2022 13: 14
                  +5
                  Quote: gsev
                  Quote from Beaver.
                  And what, the rest of the citizens have a different train?

                  The rest of the citizens would not give a penny for schools in Tajikistan.

                  Yeah, and they would immediately become indignant why we do not work on Wed. Asia.
                2. Beaver
                  Beaver 13 December 2022 21: 35
                  0
                  Are they hiring citizens of Tajikistan, what are our other citizens?
              3. SKVichyakow
                SKVichyakow 12 December 2022 21: 23
                +3
                Quote from Beaver.
                And what, the rest of the citizens have a different train?

                I think it's different.
                1. Beaver
                  Beaver 13 December 2022 21: 35
                  -2
                  I see that one to one with officials
                  1. tikhonov66
                    tikhonov66 15 December 2022 17: 09
                    0
                    "...
                    I see that one to one with officials
                    ..."
                    - ma-lady.
                    Dets-how LITTLE you know and understand.
                    8-))
            2. Shark Lover
              Shark Lover 13 December 2022 04: 28
              +6
              Nicholas, that's just not necessary. In the USSR, there were also enough of these, if not more. Example. After a successful ambush (I'm talking about the DRA) and returning with trophies, the first to visit the supply room was the ShN unit, and then, immediately there were urgent business trips to the USSR for staff officers. And they sawed and stole. The only thing, but also the most huge, then, if they got caught, they could put them in prison, and earlier they could shoot them according to the law, now all this with impunity.
              1. alexandre II
                alexandre II 13 December 2022 05: 55
                +8
                "" Shark Lover "" ....... What's true is true, in Kohtla-Jarve he sat like that at the "chemistry", whipping, selling fuel to the spirits, they gave him a deadline, so this duck also got impudence, made a request to him benefits or not, like that, there are enough of these at all times .....
              2. alexey sidykin
                alexey sidykin 13 December 2022 13: 25
                +3
                Quote: Shark Lover
                Nicholas, that's just not necessary. In the USSR, there were also enough of these, if not more. Example. After a successful ambush (I'm talking about the DRA) and returning with trophies, the first to visit the supply room was the ShN unit, and then, immediately there were urgent business trips to the USSR for staff officers. And they sawed and stole. The only thing, but also the most huge, then, if they got caught, they could put them in prison, and earlier they could shoot them according to the law, now all this with impunity.

                And that’s not always ... for example, the head of the district hospital, who stole from us, was punished by being appointed director of a sanatorium of regional significance in our district, and in the 90s he again sat at the hospital, and the head of the district was made just the chairman of the collective farm for the same thing, moreover, a millionaire collective farm.
              3. azkolt
                azkolt 13 December 2022 20: 46
                0
                Quote: Shark Lover
                Nicholas, that's just not necessary. In the USSR, there were also enough of these, if not more. Example. After a successful ambush (I'm talking about the DRA) and returning with trophies, the first to visit the supply room was the ShN unit, and then, immediately there were urgent business trips to the USSR for staff officers. And they sawed and stole. The only thing, but also the most huge, then, if they got caught, they could put them in prison, and earlier they could shoot them according to the law, now all this with impunity.

                They will probably attack me, but I served in the Soviet army and I believe that there were no officers even then. At least I wasn't lucky enough to meet them. Some kind of petty grabbers, sometimes drunkards, people with a narrow outlook.
            3. Olga Cherdak
              Olga Cherdak 13 December 2022 08: 57
              +3
              everything is so, and we don’t know when the people will hear and they will start to fight, as it should be for Russian soldiers
            4. restless
              restless 14 December 2022 07: 49
              +4
              The whole government doesn’t give a damn about everything, their main interest is to cut down more money, although they have already stolen a hundred lives, but if there is no control, why not, let the fools fight, and having all the citizenship of the countries of the enemies, they can easily escape, as they did many Chubais, it turns out that some are going to defend the country, while others are robbing the country, while shouting loudly that they are patriots, but at the same time enemies of the people, and our special services cannot touch them, since they are untouchable, that's where the betrayal is sits....
              1. vlad106
                vlad106 14 December 2022 16: 34
                0
                Quote: restless
                let the fools fight, and they, having all the citizenship of the enemy countries, can easily escape, as many Chubais did, it turns out that some go to defend the country, while others rob the country at the same time, while shouting loudly that they are patriots, but at the same time enemies of the people, and our special services cannot touch them,



                M-yes!
                Vaughn Ragozhin-cosmonaft recently stated in an interview that he was a "Volunteer", and also conducted a sabotage reconnaissance operation in the Donbass.
                And to the question: “Why were you there in NATO uniform?”, He carried another nonsense about the fact that this uniform is made in Transnistria ...

                Vaughn Vodolatsky stated:
                "Deputy Vodolatsky announced the readiness of the Russian army to attack"
                Let Ragozhkin and Vadalatsky on the front line in the Donbass set an example of what kind of "heroes" they are
                1. azkolt
                  azkolt 15 December 2022 17: 44
                  0
                  And if the NATO uniform is better and a person can buy it for himself, then why is it bad?
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. flicker
            flicker 13 December 2022 21: 53
            0
            However, in essence the article ... yes, there is enough of everything, texture and imagination !!!
            It's just that a lot is changing
            https://t.me/rian_ru/188470
            I recommend Tornado-G
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 12 December 2022 10: 57
        +12
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        From myself, I note that a guided projectile with an increased range for Pion is really not enough.

        The problem is that for this projectile you will need:
        - in a controlled version - means of target designation for the entire depth of fire;
        - in the corrected version (without guidance, only with trajectory correction along predetermined target coordinates) - "real-time" reconnaissance means for the entire depth of fire, according to which these same coordinates will be hammered into the projectile.
        1. alexmach
          alexmach 13 December 2022 00: 37
          +4
          And in any case, all of it will be needed for counter-battery combat. At least for this projectile, at least for anything else. And we will have to learn how to fight this fight effectively. And in the current war and in the coming ones, there is no way without it.
        2. nickname7
          nickname7 13 December 2022 16: 35
          0
          The problem is that this projectile will require

          Also, to improve accuracy, professional artillerymen are required, but most of the artillery will be caught, so the accuracy is weak.
          1. Derbes19
            Derbes19 17 December 2022 21: 21
            0
            Is it impossible to train professional artillerymen in the remaining schools? It seems to me that it was necessary to increase the efficiency of artillery. Communication, reconnaissance, target designation, precision ammunition, if everything was in order with this, then the outfit of forces could be much smaller. And there would be enough gunners.
      3. private person
        private person 12 December 2022 21: 04
        0
        And finally, where are our (albeit few) AWACS aircraft?

        It seems that last year there was a hype that these same AWACS aircraft sent for repair had someone poked secret blocks.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 13 December 2022 10: 27
          +5
          Quote: private person
          And finally, where are our (albeit few) AWACS aircraft?

          They work. Otherwise, we would have had not single UAV breakthroughs, but full-fledged raids of "crocodiles" and "dryers" with "flashlights". For with the detection of targets on MV and WWII without AWACS, everything is very bad.
          Quote: private person
          It seems that last year there was a hype that these same AWACS aircraft sent for repair had someone poked secret blocks.

          It was not AWACS, but the VKP Il-80.
          There was still noise there due to the fact that the factory for the auction for the protection of the territory (44 FZ - our everything) laid out in open access the complete security scheme, up to the location of posts and technical means and the patrol schedule. belay
          1. vlad106
            vlad106 14 December 2022 16: 39
            +1
            Quote: Alexey RA
            There was still noise there due to the fact that the factory for the auction for the protection of the territory (44 FZ - our everything) laid out in open access the complete security scheme, up to the location of posts and technical means and the patrol schedule.


            Yes, it's a NIGHTMARE!
            Change upon change! Traitors, agents from everywhere, from top to bottom
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 15 December 2022 10: 12
              0
              Quote: vlad106
              Yes, it's a NIGHTMARE!


              In the sense that the preparation of tender documentation is done by people who do not understand the very subject of each of the tenders. Because they have such packages of documents - a crowd, according to the competition for each sneeze, more than one hundred thousand. Therefore, they mold according to a template, and whether the information is stamped or not - let others think. If the first department noticed - well, no - and it's gone.
              In one of the regions of the north of Russia, at about the same time, there was a competition for the repair of roads for the passage of heavy transporters. With the scheme of the conveyor, its mass and loads. Eight axle conveyor. wink As a result, it became clear, up to the regiment, where the new PGRKs would go.
              Hangars for Iskanders, new T-72B3M - full information on orders for them could be found at the State Procurement. The most enchanting flight was with the laid out competition for the modernization of the Perimeter command missiles - exactly at the time when our leadership announced that the system was removed from combat duty and in general, some kind of "perimeter"? smile
      4. alexmach
        alexmach 13 December 2022 00: 33
        +8
        From myself, I note that a guided projectile with an increased range for Pion is really not enough. In addition, it is necessary to increase the range of the aimed shot of our Peonies (Malok), in order to have a longer arm in counter-battery combat.

        What for? A guided / corrected missile in Smerch's arsenal (and they say there is already one), and in addition to it, high-precision long-range ones. So there will be a means of long-range counter-battery combat.
        1. Captain Pushkin
          Captain Pushkin 13 December 2022 15: 09
          +5
          Quote: alexmach
          A guided / corrected missile in the Tornado's arsenal (and they say there already is one),

          A guided missile is easier and cheaper to make than an adjustable projectile. The reason is the exorbitant accelerations when the projectile is fired.
          1. alexmach
            alexmach 13 December 2022 22: 10
            +4
            A guided missile is easier and cheaper to make than an adjustable projectile. The reason is the exorbitant accelerations when the projectile is fired.

            Many argue with this statement, but nevertheless, even if it is rejected
            At RZSO
            * More range
            * higher speed
            * There already seems to be a smart rocket for Tornado-S
            * More portable ammunition with the same weight
            * Higher rate of fire
            * wheeled chassis that allows you to move on public roads
            * the ability to conduct salvo fire with "simpler" shells over areas, which is also not superfluous for counter-battery combat
            * There were some other fun ideas about placing a drone as the head of a rocket.

            In general, in my opinion, for long-range counter-battery combat, Tornado as a means of destruction is most preferable
      5. stankow
        stankow 13 December 2022 02: 02
        +5
        The shots are not warmed up. And then you can inflate the trunk. It is designed for a charge temperature of 15 degrees. If rejected, amendments are made. But the devil is not pulling the tail.
        1. Hizen
          Hizen 13 December 2022 13: 52
          0
          I believe the gun operates at temperatures from -50°C to +50°C. "Warm" charges will send a projectile to a distance unattainable with "cold" ones. And here no amendments will help.
      6. your1970
        your1970 13 December 2022 19: 22
        +2
        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Agree with your comment completely. From myself, I note that a guided projectile with an increased range for Pion is really not enough. In addition, it is necessary to increase the range of the aimed shot of our Peonies (Malok), in order to have a longer arm in counter-battery combat. And this is at least to increase the length of the 203mm barrel or think about creating a shot heating system.
        And finally, where are our (albeit few) AWACS aircraft?

        I served in 1988-1990 at AZK-5 and SNARka. They were in the entire army.
    2. Civil
      Civil 12 December 2022 07: 33
      +13
      1.
      carry on his shoulders our "simple infantry Vanya"

      I can’t assess whether this is good or bad, but it won’t work anymore.
      2. Dear Author, Your article is a voice crying in the wilderness.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 12 December 2022 07: 53
        +11
        Suppose this author is not the only one who "shouts in the desert" ...
        Suppose that the news from the fields are different and in. including encouraging, but...
        Our "paravoz" for a long time stood on the side of the road and served it, as it was not ice !!!
        The question is... and those who didn't care much about our "paravoz" continue to "pull their webbing" in the same place and in the same style/rhythm???
        1. zenion
          zenion 12 December 2022 20: 20
          +3
          rocket757. About what will be already written long ago by V. Vysotsky. And then a man runs up to him, and well, he lisps something and the Prince says, for no reason at all, that you will accept death from your horse. And for a long time the squad trampled the Magi with their bay horses. Look, they say, for no apparent reason, that he will accept death from his horse. And here is my horse, he fell asleep for centuries, only one skull remained, Oleg calmly laid his foot and died right there on the spot. An evil viper bit him and he died from his horse. Each Magi strives to punish, there would be no heed, right? Oleg would have listened, another shield would have been nailed to the gates of Tsaregrad.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 12 December 2022 21: 17
            0
            So new, they are all like that ... if they are such that they should read fairy tales, poems, and indeed, turn to the wisdom of the people ??? And so every time, with each new, next.
            Their history does not teach anything.
    3. Stas157
      Stas157 12 December 2022 07: 42
      +42
      Quote: rocket757
      who the author is is easy to guess.

      Yes. The novel writes boldly. And not in the eyebrow, but in the eye.

      What do we have: nothing. ...

      Russian artillery today is somewhat different from what we would like to see. World War I level.

      And so in everything.
      70% of the renewal of the army in fact turned out to be a fraud.

      It is time to recall the wisdom of the fairy tale about the naked king. But it should be noted that a naked king can shine with non-existent outfits only in front of his own. It will not make any impression on strangers, except for contemptuous grins.

      But there is something that saves. There are no new outfits, but there are old galoshes. We stand on them!
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 12 December 2022 08: 00
        -5
        It's complicated/simple...
        About the "naked king" and his retinue .... no, no, literary will not work.
        About everything else that IS!!! you can say it differently, but then it still turns out that the king is made by the retinue, and the STATE, POWER, IS NOT ONLY THE KING, and often not at all the king and his ... assistants!
        1. Aerodrome
          Aerodrome 12 December 2022 08: 19
          +20
          "lunar landscapes" are of course depressing ... why is this? power supply consumption, trunk wear - nowhere.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 12 December 2022 09: 05
            -4
            To say that everything is NOT SO ... for sure NO.
            To say that everything is SO ... also does not work.
            It turns out something like this ... but again, this is news from the fields, but they are different. The general meaning is that So, now it is becoming noticeably larger, but this is at the expense of revenue, the skill of those who do not just work, but study, improve in the process!
            At the expense of technology ... it won’t work right away and this is an objective assessment at the moment.
            How it will be tomorrow, the day after tomorrow ... depends on many reasons and circumstances.
            We will see.
      2. Alexey Lantukh
        Alexey Lantukh 12 December 2022 19: 19
        +5
        To the question of 70%? This is the average temperature in the hospital. Nobody knows how it was measured. Perhaps this is so: they put into operation a nuclear submarine worth 100 billion rubles, which is equal to the cost of several thousand artillery systems, which were not made, since no funding was allocated. Or they released several thousand new Kalashnikovs, but the artillery reconnaissance systems were not funded again. In particular, the average temperature for the MO was 70%, and for artillery, some 5%.
      3. zenion
        zenion 12 December 2022 20: 25
        0
        Stas157. Listen guys, what your grandfather will tell you, our country is rich, there is order, but no! Konstantin Tolstoy. "History of the Russian State from Gostmysl to the present day". This is how it goes, every time a new king begins to reign on the throne.
        1. Captain Pushkin
          Captain Pushkin 13 December 2022 15: 12
          +2
          Quote: zenion
          Konstantin Tolstoy. "History of the Russian State from Gostmysl to the present day".

          More precisely, Tolstoy Alexei Konstantinovich
        2. Letun
          Letun 13 December 2022 16: 24
          0
          Quote: zenion
          This is how it goes, every time a new king begins to reign on the throne.

          Nothing new! Only 22 years reigns. Beginner I would say. Here the enemy is there, yeah, motherly king!
      4. alexoff
        alexoff 12 December 2022 21: 00
        +2
        In the ground forces, by the way, the lowest renewal was, 50% declared. And in order to increase the percentage, on the one hand, they put all sorts of banks and modified acacias, and on the other hand, they massively sent the old ones for storage. Peonies in storage, malki in service, 100% of the latest weapons! Dofiga aircraft and helicopters were written off in a similar way.
      5. SergeyB
        SergeyB 13 December 2022 11: 25
        -7
        Quote: Stas157
        Yes. The novel writes boldly. And not in the eyebrow, but in the eye.

        Yes, I also like Skomorokhov.
        Cool style!
        All around gay people, I alone know the truth and bring the light of truth into your fragile convolutions.
        A bunch of statements. And not a single figure or reference to DOCUMENTS that would support these statements!

        I'll start with the first statement. About our primitive artillery from the First World War and how the brilliant modern Hymers defeated our wretched artillery.
        Let's take a well-known fact:
        The losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Bakhmut exceeded 2 thousand people in 10 months.
        https://topwar.ru/206592-britanskoe-izdanie-vsu-poterjali-pod-bahmutom-porjadka-10-tysjach-voennosluzhaschih-iz-za-politicheskih-ambicij-zelenskogo.html
        (that's how it should be, made a statement - gave a reference).
        As you know, 90 percent of the losses in the NWO are provided by art. So we can imagine how much our artillery inflicts losses on the Armed Forces of Ukraine along the entire front, if only so many thousands were threshed under a tiny town.
        Now let's see how much the brilliant Hymers inflicted on us. Excuse me, but what actual losses did they inflict during this period? No, of course, they shot, they hit somewhere, they caused some losses. But. Hymers is not destined to even look from afar, the result of our art.
        In general, for beautiful PR, contact Hymers. If you need a result, call our artu.
        Well, as for the invulnerability of the Hymers, recently, in just 2 days, our aircraft destroyed and hit 14 HIMARS and MLRS launchers.
        https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1187042&page=1&ts=1670690431&comment_requested_thread=04.03.00/#comments

        Again. Approval is a link.

        I read the rest of the article diagonally.
        Just allegations with no evidence.
        And the author does not enter into controversy. It just bans unwanted people, as it is the editor of the section.
        In general, I really like Skomorokhov.
        1. John Desmond
          John Desmond 13 December 2022 22: 11
          +1
          Show at least one photo of the destroyed Himars
        2. Alexey Lantukh
          Alexey Lantukh 14 December 2022 11: 17
          +1
          The losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are approximately known to us, but are our losses known? Or use the APU reports. This is to the effectiveness of our actions, including artillery. Especially large caliber.
      6. vlad106
        vlad106 14 December 2022 17: 01
        +1
        Quote: Stas157
        70% of the renewal of the army in fact turned out to be a fraud.


        That you sho! We have such a talented minister...
    4. Sevastiec
      Sevastiec 13 December 2022 17: 37
      +1
      Vanya tell that. Write to him from the couch that he must be meat. Because Van, with such a formulation of the question, you need a lot. Some Vanya will endure, of course, but at the cost of the death of many Vanya nearby. And by the way, it’s not at all a fact that Vanya will endure this time as well. Van is not enough now. We have the largest country and a very small population. We are dying without any CO.
    5. Piramidon
      Piramidon 13 December 2022 18: 38
      +3
      Quote: rocket757
      who is the author is easy to guess

      This can be determined by the number of letters without reading the article itself. Skomorokhov, as always, is verbose.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 13 December 2022 18: 45
        +1
        I had to read ... spent time.
        Nothing new, in general, but a lot.
        Verbosity is ... it is possible and so.
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. Esso
      Esso 17 December 2022 19: 06
      0
      Roman has a golden time, I don’t want to write, criticize sitting on the Couch. There is zero point to this. A curtain. AWACS aircraft in their places, working where needed. Emphasis should be placed on the development of high-precision munitions and drones.
  2. jacket
    jacket 12 December 2022 06: 20
    -11
    Here recently people argued that in the Russian Federation the same modern artillery as in the West ...
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 December 2022 06: 57
      +16
      Do not confuse "warm" with "soft"!
      However, it became interesting to me who and when “recently reported” to you on the VO website? Especially considering that you were registered on December 10 of the current year, and today is December 12!!! No.
      1. jacket
        jacket 12 December 2022 09: 21
        -21
        What else "warm with soft"? Ukraine has artillery that is both more modern and long-range.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 December 2022 10: 40
          +18
          Quote from jacke
          What else "warm with soft"? Ukraine has artillery that is both more modern and long-range.

          Well then, tell me at least one artillery gun developed and mass-produced in Ukraine after the collapse of the Soviet Union? Apart from the mortar "Hammer".
          Everything that is longer-range and more modern is the supply of Western countries. Including the world's most modern German serial self-propelled guns "Panzerhaubitz 2000". Everything else is from the evil one. M-777, FH-70 v FH-77, when firing with a conventional projectile, have comparable characteristics to our Msta-B and Hyacinths. The advantage comes from ammunition. Plus situational awareness, these are SKBB, UAVs and AWACS. Plus satellite constellation. Something similar to our 203mm Malka, the APU has similar Peonies. Both sides have 240mm Tulips.
          Essentially, Roman is right, although this was an open secret before, we need a situational awareness and intelligence system.
          Only I would personally bet on AWACS aviation. It is the A-50 and A-100 that should monitor the ground and air at a safe distance, loitering near the border of the NWO. In the future, they should replace high-altitude UAVs with similar functions.
          1. Thorvlobnor IV
            Thorvlobnor IV 12 December 2022 17: 57
            +2
            Well then, tell me at least one artillery gun developed and mass-produced in Ukraine after the collapse of the Soviet Union?

            Well, actually they have "Bogdan", a 155mm gun on a truck chassis, CAESAR-like. Although it exists in a single copy, it has passed state tests, participated in the shelling of Zmeiny Island, can shoot at 40 km with a conventional projectile, and even has a Ukrainian-made barrel. True, production, most likely, is no longer there, because. it was located in Kramatorsk. But competencies and technologies have not gone away, as you understand.
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 December 2022 21: 17
              0
              Quote: Torvlobnor IV
              Well then, tell me at least one artillery gun developed and mass-produced in Ukraine after the collapse of the Soviet Union?

              Well, actually they have "Bogdan", a 155mm gun on a truck chassis, CAESAR-like. Although it exists in a single copy, it has passed state tests, participated in the shelling of Zmeiny Island, can shoot at 40 km with a conventional projectile, and even has a Ukrainian-made barrel. True, production, most likely, is no longer there, because. it was located in Kramatorsk. But competencies and technologies have not gone away, as you understand.

              Read my comment again. I propose to name a serial model, not an experimental gun.
              1. vlad106
                vlad106 14 December 2022 17: 07
                +1
                Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                Read my comment again. I propose to name a serial model, not an experimental gun.


                So the arrogant Saxons filled up their weapons from head to toe ...
                Our General Staff would have needed to develop a plan to destroy logistics back in February
          2. Uno
            Uno 12 December 2022 21: 44
            +9
            Excuse me, but comparing Ukraine and Russia, as it were, does not work at all. An agrarian country and a country that is going to build its own multipolar world and fight against NATO :)
            1. vlad106
              vlad106 14 December 2022 17: 16
              +3
              Quote from Uno
              to compare Ukraine and Russia, as it were, does not work at all. An agrarian country and a country that is going to build its own multipolar world and fight against NATO :)


              Aha! How can you brag about your power without restoring the ruined, plundered industry? keep pushing? without restoring the machine-tool and mechanical engineering, semiconductor, electronic industries Light. Weaving and sewing...
              It's just that the enemies are in ministerial and bureaucratic positions!
              Just like in the 30s under Stalin there were ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE!
              And what did Great Stalin do in 37?
              Did everything right! visionary leader was
              1. vlad106
                vlad106 14 December 2022 17: 17
                0
                I forgot about the bearing factories, of which there were more than 30 in Soviet times
        2. Piramidon
          Piramidon 13 December 2022 19: 02
          +1
          Quote from jacket
          Ukraine has artillery that is both more modern and long-range.

          And they dug up the protoukry of the Black Sea. laughing
      2. Kriso Sborshik
        Kriso Sborshik 12 December 2022 16: 35
        +12
        Is this site only available to registered users? For example, I've been coming here for several years, but I signed up just a couple of months ago. So what? Am I not allowed to ask questions now?
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 December 2022 17: 42
          -4
          Quote from Kriso Sborshik
          Is this site only available to registered users? For example, I've been coming here for several years, but I signed up just a couple of months ago. So what? Am I not allowed to ask questions now?

          Ask!
        2. Vic Vic
          Vic Vic 13 December 2022 20: 37
          0
          On the question asked on the site, with rare exceptions, they like to put minuses
      3. zenion
        zenion 12 December 2022 20: 32
        -1
        Kote pane Kohanka. It was like this in the winter. Terrible frost. A sparrow flew, it became cold and he fell on the road. A couple of horses passed by, and one horse emptied its intestines right on a sparrow. He felt warm, the sparrow warmed up and began to chirp. A cat was running past. She pulled the sparrow out of the horse dung and ate it. Morality is not every enemy of yours who does it to you. Not everyone is your friend when he pulls you out of excrement. Everything is as it is now in Russia and Ukraine. Someone will definitely be eaten and will eat the one who is fatter.
    2. Stas157
      Stas157 12 December 2022 08: 10
      +9
      Quote from jacket
      Here recently people argued that in the Russian Federation the same modern artillery as in the West ...

      Yes, and some equate Excalibur and Krasnopol. Although in one case there is guidance on satellite GPS, and in the other - on an ordinary laser mark.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 12 December 2022 08: 45
        +2
        Quote: Stas157
        Yes, and some equate Excalibur and Krasnopol. Although in one case there is guidance on satellite GPS, and in the other - on an ordinary laser mark.

        There is a "Krasnopol-D" with GPS ...
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 12 December 2022 09: 00
          +8
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          There is a "Krasnopol-D" with GPS ...

          Yes. But he is still in development. Question for you. Kranopol-D is currently in use? And if used, how massively?
          1. zenion
            zenion 12 December 2022 20: 34
            0
            Stas157. Massively as much as the meat allows.
    3. insafufa
      insafufa 12 December 2022 08: 13
      +8
      Artillery is quite modern, only it needs money. The barrels of the guns themselves are similar to those and even better than modern Western models. The whole article about what remains the weakest in our artillery is counter-battery combat and target designation for 100 years, nothing has changed, we all dance on the old rake.
      1. your1970
        your1970 13 December 2022 19: 28
        0
        Quote: insafufa
        The whole article about what remains the weakest in our artillery is counter-battery combat and target designation for 100 years, nothing has changed, we all dance on the old rake.

        Served in 1988-1990 at AZK-5 and SNARka
        1. insafufa
          insafufa 14 December 2022 08: 27
          0
          We had a Zoo in our location and it was in Shali in 2001. to improve shooting accuracy. when the enemy cannot give you back, the complex is good.
          I served on the PRP-3 with the 1RL-133-1 radar, although it would be better if they were all modernized and replaced with Aistenok (radar) and modern coordinate systems were installed, then there would be no price for him now.
    4. stankow
      stankow 13 December 2022 02: 12
      0
      jacket Lie, of course. In fact, the artillery of the RF Armed Forces is much better and more powerful than the Ukrainian one. What are the 105 mm L118 guns worth, with which the "allies" "armed" the Armed Forces of Ukraine laughing
  3. U-58
    U-58 12 December 2022 06: 23
    -4
    The author would like to provide three or four specific proposals as a summary.
    If work on bugs is needed, and the need for such is clearly stated, then it (work) must be started from the first step. That would be to write from what.
    1. Al manah
      Al manah 12 December 2022 10: 40
      +13
      Here (and generally anywhere) you can write 20 volumes of sentences, but "up there" (c) they are of no interest to anyone.
      1. alexoff
        alexoff 12 December 2022 21: 03
        -6
        They know much more than we do at the top, it’s just that it’s very difficult to become a normal leader in order to directly learn how to solve problems to the end
        1. Al manah
          Al manah 13 December 2022 08: 25
          0
          A normal leader with us is one who moves his hands according to what is lowered to him from above.
          1. alexoff
            alexoff 13 December 2022 21: 37
            0
            This is a performer, no one knows how to lead us
  4. Konnick
    Konnick 12 December 2022 06: 27
    +4
    Counter-battery combat with one artillery is the beginning of the 20th century. The most effective fight is air strikes, which even 5 minutes would be enough to destroy Haimars from patrolling.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 12 December 2022 08: 21
      +11
      Quote: Konnick
      Counter-battery combat with one artillery is the beginning of the 20th century. The most effective fight is air strikes, which even 5 minutes would be enough to destroy Haimars from patrolling.

      BUT, in the complete absence of air defense and MANPADS from the enemy. those are - BUT - hinders.
      1. alexoff
        alexoff 12 December 2022 21: 07
        +2
        But you could at least try to collect a group of drones near Kherson so that they could replace each other in the sky, radars specifically for detecting missile launches, lancets or a couple of helicopters ready for launch. And then there is a feeling that magic shields were hung on the hemarses, like on any Kalyn-Volyn-directors of the Zaporizhzhya NPP, that you can’t shoot at them, just endure and send them home as much as possible
  5. G17
    G17 12 December 2022 06: 35
    +17
    Very good and correct article. It is necessary to talk about mistakes and idiocy. Mistakes - to correct, and hotbeds of idiocy and hatred in the army - to uproot. After the disastrous Serdyukovism, Shoigu seems to have started well. But in the 2020s, everything gradually slipped away from real affairs into a swamp of tank biathlons, games and window dressing. And all these sores immediately appeared with the onset of SVO. It turned out that we were poorly prepared for the war - huge problems with communications, support, artillery, drones, manpower reserves and simply sane command, etc. etc. Something is being corrected now, but they don’t even think about fixing something. Meanwhile, our enemy does not forgive mistakes and neglect at all.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 12 December 2022 07: 12
      +32
      Quote: G17
      we were poorly prepared for the war

      Today I listened to V. Solovyov - Plants and factories work in three shifts. Arta - the gods of war - are all snipers, everyone has everything on the front end! It’s a pleasure to watch, he just arrived from the front line ... And then what if we are still in the Donetsk region. they didn’t clean it up and the Nazis hit civilians and the front stood up .... I’m afraid that Roman is right, not Solovyov ....
      1. Alexey Lantukh
        Alexey Lantukh 12 December 2022 19: 32
        +6
        Well, I also watched this show. I thought: they showed an exemplary part, and even then it is impossible to fully understand the progress of artillery in this. And the problems are deep, which cannot be solved in three shifts at the plant. Bad microcircuits and semiconductors, with which we have problems, few worthy UAVs with good optics, including infrared, we don’t hear about a decent artillery reconnaissance and fire control system.
      2. Shark Lover
        Shark Lover 13 December 2022 04: 46
        +2
        The front line is large, or rather deep)))). I don’t think that he was on the front end, he climbed into the trenches. The reason?))) There are other people sitting there, they immediately see noodles and slogans, they can straighten up, if anything. Most importantly, what will they do for it? They will not send further than the front. Why do I say so. In the DRA, we stormed the base at Khost in the 86th (I don’t compare it with the current war, but at least somehow), and so, our company was removed from the mountains in two days, we were well taken care of (tanks were beaten there, from the adjacent side too Arta helped), and Comrade arrived. Leshchinsky, many remember him. They let me down, began to ask questions, took me away right away. This is for me, an officer, a lieutenant, now, if a soldier had come across to him, he would immediately show the way, along with the film crew.
        Propaganda, without it nowhere.
      3. vlad106
        vlad106 14 December 2022 17: 30
        +3
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        listened to V. Solovyov - Plants and factories work in three shifts


        To listen to the nightingale ... like someone's droppings.
        there were tens of thousands of factories. various. including electronic ones.
        And now here in our city, NOT ONE THAT WOULD WORK IN THE PREVIOUS MODE. Everything is closed or collapsed, and in their place are solid shopping centers ...
        1. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 14 December 2022 23: 56
          0
          Quote: vlad106
          in their place are solid shopping centers ...

          There is no one to buy...
    2. cold wind
      cold wind 12 December 2022 08: 39
      +19
      Quote: G17
      After the disastrous Serdyukovism, Shoigu seems to have started well.

      As practice has shown, on the contrary. Under Serdyukov, at least something was done. New developments have appeared, really new equipment, for example, new armored personnel carriers. Under Shoigu, only PR became really better.
      1. ZeeD
        ZeeD 12 December 2022 14: 04
        +3
        Under Shoigu, they began to buy everything, and not report on developments, but tear down the property of the Moscow Region.
        1. cold wind
          cold wind 12 December 2022 14: 04
          +1
          Quote: ZeeD
          Under Shoigu, they began to buy everything, and not report on developments, but tear down the property of the Moscow Region.

          What did you start buying?
          1. ZeeD
            ZeeD 12 December 2022 14: 16
            +4
            Upgraded equipment / upgrade old. T-72b3, BTR 82a, BMP 3, for example. Yes, a lot more. Yes, this is not enough, but at least something.
            I worked in bankruptcy in the period 10-13 and dealt with bankruptcy. And I saw what kipish went up on the bankruptcy of the military, when Serdyukov was removed and how everything went there before that, I can roughly imagine.
          2. Arbeiternegast
            Arbeiternegast 13 December 2022 01: 11
            +3
            Gold and paint for the Temple of Military Glory and grass for the Patriot Park were purchased ...
        2. Thorvlobnor IV
          Thorvlobnor IV 12 December 2022 18: 05
          +9
          And what, Shoigu solved the issue with military communications? The Armed Forces of Ukraine have L3Harris, Motorola and Aselsan with encryption, and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have civilian Baofeng and semi-mythical Excitement, in which encryption must be turned off in order to somehow work.
          In the battle between Serdyukov and the "military insanity", the latter won, and Shoigu only created a smoke screen over the battlefield of common sense and military corruption.
          1. ZeeD
            ZeeD 12 December 2022 21: 51
            -3
            And, like, he came, and all the problems that had been accumulating for 20-30 years were supposed to magically disappear? We do not have a state budget, and the military industry is lame on both legs. There are still many problems left. But this does not mean that it’s straight, nothing has been done, everything is gone ...
            1. Keer
              Keer 13 December 2022 02: 12
              +2
              A swindler with an honest, dull face, closer and dearer than other crooks. Moreover, if the trade of this person is put on stream, in a cloud of all kinds of trinkets on a tunic. And in caps, the change in geometry of which would be envied by Lobachevsky and Rimman. A man who managed to ruin such a simple thing as a fire department. Well, in general: "What is the pop, such is the arrival"
              1. ZeeD
                ZeeD 13 December 2022 09: 44
                0
                The man who created the Ministry of Emergency Situations, whose work is being studied in other countries and whose work there are no complaints ... By the way, this very Ministry of Emergency Situations also includes the fire service ... A good attempt, but it does not count.
                1. Keer
                  Keer 13 December 2022 13: 45
                  -1
                  In some such other countries, they learn what exactly, and how exactly does this happen? laughing Yes, that's right, the fire service, which is part of the Ministry of Emergency Situations.
                  1. ZeeD
                    ZeeD 13 December 2022 19: 15
                    +3
                    Learn the speed of work and responsiveness. Especially after our Ministry of Emergency Situations helped someone.
                    Something I have never seen complaints about the work of the Ministry of Emergency Situations when Shoigu was the head of this service (and even after). And Shoigu, when he was the head of the Ministry of Emergency Situations, had an excellent reputation among the population of our country.
                    1. Keer
                      Keer 13 December 2022 20: 50
                      -1
                      Who specifically learns and how, what peoples and countries, how? Delegations for the exchange of experience send, or, how? Thanks to the PR department for the reputation.
                    2. Keer
                      Keer 14 December 2022 04: 37
                      +3
                      The speed of work is traced as
                      rank increment from mln lt reserve after the military department, which, by the way, the presence of mlt, not a fact, to marshal, those while army general, for 20 years, without a single battle. And without a single day of service in the troops, from mlt to general.
                      1. Uncle lee
                        Uncle lee 15 December 2022 00: 00
                        +1
                        Quote: Keer
                        up to the marshal, those until the general of the army

                      2. Andy_nsk
                        Andy_nsk 19 December 2022 15: 16
                        0
                        Sorry, a little off topic: after the military department of civilian universities, they were awarded the rank of lieutenant (itself such, issue of 1981). As for Shoigu, he has only one positive quality - a personal friend of the GDP. And everyone blames everything on Taburetkin, how many years have passed? You still scold Grechko for not making weapons for a hundred years to come!
                      3. Keer
                        Keer 19 December 2022 17: 13
                        0
                        Yes, me too, Lt 93. It’s just that when I was studying, I heard that, before, de, MLT was appropriated, I didn’t check it. Shoigu, if I finished anything, then in the seventies, so I wrote. Although this does not change the meaning. However, Shoigu has a medal "60 years of Victory in the Great Patriotic War", therefore, with his age, the matter is dark laughing Maybe he's a veteran.
                      4. Andy_nsk
                        Andy_nsk 19 December 2022 20: 05
                        0
                        Shoigu is only a few years older than me, and he could hang any medal for himself, even "Veteran of the Battle of Kulikovo"!
                      5. Keer
                        Keer 19 December 2022 20: 20
                        0
                        It was a joke. The status of the medal implies the existence of the recipient, in the form of a living person, in the period 1941-1945. Hence the question of age. laughing
                      6. Keer
                        Keer 19 December 2022 21: 19
                        0
                        By the way, Marshal Rokossovsky has only 50 awards, the USSR, foreign, George and three Gergiev medals. And Shoigu is already 64. And this is not the limit. Look for the best commander yet.
                2. Keer
                  Keer 14 December 2022 00: 49
                  0
                  Orders and medals "Zhukovsky", and deeds and accomplishments - Pukovsky.
                3. Keer
                  Keer 15 December 2022 04: 49
                  +2
                  Yes, and, by the way, what is the saddest thing, the stupidity reflected on the faces of characters like him is not a fake mask, but a real expression of stupidity, carriers of fashion.
          2. stankow
            stankow 13 December 2022 02: 18
            0
            Baofeng in the army? Or in the militia?
        3. alexoff
          alexoff 12 December 2022 21: 10
          +2
          And prices immediately flew into the stratosphere. It is enough to look at the nearest suburbs and see what Shoigu's replacement and the son of his deputy Vorobyov did to suspect corruption.
          1. stankow
            stankow 13 December 2022 02: 20
            +4
            In general, you don’t have to look at anything in order to “suspect corruption” laughing laughing
        4. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 13 December 2022 01: 39
          +1
          Quote: ZeeD
          Under Shoigu, they began to buy everything,

          One hundred T-34 tanks!
      2. Sergey T19
        Sergey T19 13 December 2022 11: 05
        0
        Under Serdyukov, they stole in such a way that they never dreamed of.
      3. vlad106
        vlad106 14 December 2022 17: 33
        +1
        Why do you offend Shoigu? Thanks to him, we have such a cool biathlon ...
    3. Vashek
      Vashek 12 December 2022 22: 40
      +8
      Serdyukov only varnished. Lack of money and collapse began in 1989.
      “And then the reckoning came, it became dreary and creepy.
      Who is faster, he hit the road to trade and steal
      Who is simpler - went for a fee as watchmen in a day.
      And the eyebrowed dwarf Yasin explained that the path is beautiful,
      That you don't have to pay salaries - you need to abolish benefits"
    4. Keer
      Keer 13 December 2022 00: 06
      -1
      Serdyukov is an "effective manager" with kickbacks, and Shoigu is an "effective self-promotion manager" with kickbacks.
  6. Vladimir100
    Vladimir100 12 December 2022 06: 39
    +7
    I remember the summer of 14 we wondered why the militia was not supplied with modern weapons, which even then were told a lot. Various guesses were made, they say, first they want to teach on the old, or it’s just a pity to ruin the new, but it turned out the third - it simply doesn’t exist. At 15 in a conversation with one Russian artillery officer who trained mortars, even the conflict came out when he spoke skeptically about what we were fighting and how we would fight it when a full-scale conflict with NATO began. (and there was a premonition that such a conflict could begin in the next 10 years). He then all time on me pouted and was angry. But I turned out to be right.
    1. stankow
      stankow 13 December 2022 02: 25
      0
      You turned out to be completely wrong. Both Russian, and Ukrainian, and American sources recognize the complete and multiple superiority of Russian art over Ukrainian. And there is not even a hint of a shortage of guns or ammunition.
  7. Wildcat
    Wildcat 12 December 2022 06: 51
    +2
    Funny thoughts come to mind to some journalists who, it seems, gave the Armed Forces of Ukraine a couple of weeks to resist, and then Ukraine became part of the Russian Federation (and even then, if we accept it).
    Okay, about thoughts.
    What are we all about shells and shells? Let's talk about trunks already.
    Trunks, it is worth saying that German, that American, are definitely worse than Soviet


    Who will be the first to guess the type of gun, what year the gun and barrel? Hint: at the end of the video, the gunner says hello from 1946.

    Here it must be emphasized that in IMHO artillery, order. A little about aviation.
    We read the site Military Review: "Russia is increasing the production of the most powerful weapons, including those based on new physical principles, to counter the West, which supports Zelensky's Nazi regime." https://topwar.ru/206574-medvedev-rossija-naraschivaet-obemy-proizvodstva-naibolee-moschnyh-vooruzhenij-v-tom-chisle-na-novyh-fizicheskih-principah.html
    Of course, inquisitive readers have repeatedly asked themselves the question, what are these new physical principles?
    Catch the hint: Building shelters from ///////, poured into bags, is very beautiful, aesthetically pleasing and, I'm not afraid of this word, environmentally friendly.
    Greta Thunberg approves.
    And there, perhaps, it will carry.
    The same, with ////, Biden and the Ukrainians are forced to //////.
    I’ll tell you right away, if the NSh of the army takes you for f/////, without batting an eye, confidently report that these are false positions to counter NATO’s satellite reconnaissance.
    And engineering tools that prevent optical, infrared and thermal imaging identification of personnel.
    Seek the commanders of the place where this photoshop comes from, if you have a catastrophic situation with sand and earth there, you have not heard about concrete and excavators, write to me, we will look for options together.
    "
    Whoever correctly guesses all the letters and looks at the photo in the Firebomber's TG, let him wave a glass of strong. I did so yesterday.
    1. strannik1985
      strannik1985 12 December 2022 07: 37
      +4
      Straight barrel 1946 release, never changed?
      1. Wildcat
        Wildcat 12 December 2022 07: 41
        +15
        If from conservation, then it is quite possible.
        1. strannik1985
          strannik1985 12 December 2022 08: 18
          +6
          Hardly, but in any case, the barrel was not shot.
          The problem is not that the D-1s are old, there are a bunch of upgrade options that allow you to increase combat stability, ease of calculation, accuracy, including domestic production, the question is why didn’t they do this?
          1. Wildcat
            Wildcat 12 December 2022 09: 18
            0
            You are asking a very valid question.

            The short answer is because it was not considered necessary, IMHO. Again, we will not point fingers in the direction of some journalists ("AFU-weeks, Ukraine-months"), but an inquisitive reader can find articles by these journalists himself, where they called for an end to the unnecessary variety of artillery systems in the Russian Federation, since different shells are needed, The performance characteristics are different, the training is inconvenient, etc. In their opinion, it was necessary to leave the newest systems.
            So this is fate, apparently, D1 kept for military affairs ....

            Long answer - because it was not considered necessary and the possible results from this were considered and are considered acceptable, IMHO. In a long answer, everything "will not fit" into the post, it is impossible to "shove the unpushable" into such a volume. But an inquisitive reader can look at the discussions on VO with quotes from Surkov, Ivashov and Khodarenko. So everything is going strictly according to plan - and I completely agree with the Supreme Command on this.
          2. Negro
            Negro 12 December 2022 14: 50
            +4
            Quote: strannik1985
            The question is why didn't they do it?

            Weird question.

            The Soviet government made D-20 / D-30 in such quantities that it simply never occurred to anyone to deal with D-1. However, there it is as life turned around.
            1. strannik1985
              strannik1985 12 December 2022 15: 11
              +2
              Weird question

              There are no upgrade kits on the D-30/D-20/MSTA-B either. request
              They were engaged in self-propelled artillery (2S19M1 / 2S19M2 / 2S35), but not really towed and upgraded 2S1 / 2S3 ..
              1. alexmach
                alexmach 13 December 2022 00: 50
                0
                Well, in general, there is logic - despite the fact that even MSTA-S has not yet been able to modernize everything, the very ones that seemed to be missing anyway
          3. stankow
            stankow 13 December 2022 02: 28
            +5
            This is the militia, what "conveniences", where does the money come from in the Donbas, the war has been going on for the 9th year!
          4. vlad106
            vlad106 14 December 2022 17: 42
            -1
            Quote: strannik1985
            there are a lot of modernization options that allow you to increase combat stability, ease of calculation, accuracy, including domestic production, the question is why didn’t they do this?


            Where to upgrade?
            Factories collapsed...
      2. Stas157
        Stas157 12 December 2022 08: 25
        -2
        Quote: strannik1985
        Straight trunk 1946 release, never changed?

        And in your opinion, if you change the barrel of an old howitzer, then Msta-B will immediately turn out of it?

        Let's then roll out all the existing cannons of Peter the Great. We will only change the trunks!))
        1. strannik1985
          strannik1985 12 December 2022 08: 37
          +7
          The barrel resource is finite, the M-10 has 5000 rounds on a full charge. We changed the barrel - we shoot again.
          But the complex type 83t888-1.7 reduces the deployment time, improves combat stability, and reduces the likelihood of errors in calculations.
          Meteo-radar reads the ballistic wind for the entire firing distance, etc., etc.
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 December 2022 10: 56
      +9
      Who will be the first to guess the type of gun, what year the gun and barrel? Hint: at the end of the video, the gunner says hello from 1946.

      By chance, I know the guys from the DPR police and the history of this weapon. Trophy 2017 taken from the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The howitzer became the talisman of the battalion, in fact, an emergency reinforcement of the company. full-time artillerymen no all lovers. When the last time I talked in August of this year, due to the fact that Hyacinths are covering them, there are problems with ammunition.
      1. Wildcat
        Wildcat 12 December 2022 11: 07
        +2
        hi
        I then my knowledge .... only from the Internet ...: "... Then I re-read the phrase "creating a new "Artblock" for the next artillery system" and thought that there was no special sense in secrecy, to what bottom the situation with artillery materiel had sunk, since the network had already circled the video with the D-howitzer towed along the roads of Donbass 1 sample 1943. Why did we crash on this bottom, rolling out guns from the Second World War from storage?
        And OPSB, at the expense of its subscribers, finances the creation of urgent software for firing from this rarity.
        Because at first our artillery fired echelons of 122-mm and 152-mm shells into nowhere, plowed up fields and plantations. And very, very gradually she realized, through repeated unsuccessful bloody attempts by the infantry to capture something supposedly "suppressed" and "destroyed", that without adjusting her shooting with at least "Mavics" from the front line, there was no effectiveness of this shooting. First, the 122-mm guns sat on a starvation shell ration - after all, the Russian army, with the exception of the Airborne Forces and other "light" units, switched to the 152-mm caliber as the main one, so the D-30 and their self-propelled version, 2S1 Gvozdika, completed the old reserves.
        Then, in order to somehow maintain the number of working barrels, the artillery divisions of the People's Militia began to re-equip with D-20 towed howitzers from storage, since the self-propelled version of the D-20, the 2S3 Akatsiya self-propelled gun, remained quite a standard armament of the RF Armed Forces and the shells for it were .
        But this was not enough - the towed guns 2A36 "Hyacinth" were massively used from storage. And the artillery of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and the Republics turned out to be already with three main types of 152-mm barrels on their hands - D-20 / "Acacia", "Msta-B" and its self-propelled version "Msta-S", as well as self-propelled and towed "Hyacinths" , and, of course, without the complete unification of shells between these three types of guns. ... the logistics of ammunition began to be reformatted only after the Armed Forces of Ukraine went through all the artillery warehouses with "Haymars", and here already in the second half of August, in order to somehow compensate for the lack of shells for more or less modern guns, they began to massively send from storage of 152-mm howitzer D-1 arr. 1943. A gun that is noticeably inferior in range to modern artillery systems, but is capable of firing all sorts of 152-mm junk that can be found in Russian warehouses. The process of mastering the "new technology" was slow and sad. First of all, due to the fact that the guns removed from storage often came to the troops in a deplorable technical condition, and artillerymen preferred to work, albeit less, from guns of other types. But, since the situation with shells for less antique artillery systems did not improve much, the massive use of the D-1 still became inevitable.
        " https://kenigtiger.livejournal.com/2197104.html
    3. alexoff
      alexoff 12 December 2022 21: 12
      0
      Why be surprised? The Armed Forces of the LDNR issued mosquitoes from warehouses, they gave out cannons from Stalin's times, harmony is complete!
    4. Captain Pushkin
      Captain Pushkin 13 December 2022 15: 27
      +5
      Quote: Wildcat
      Who will be the first to guess the type of gun, what year is the gun and barrel?

      D-1, 152mm model 1943.
      Excellent howitzer. Lightweight and durable.
      She has her own niche - to process the front line and the near rear, saving the resource of long-range guns. And let Hyacinths and Malki process more distant goals.
  8. Igor Zhorov
    Igor Zhorov 12 December 2022 07: 10
    +3
    The problem is not that we have the artillery of the First World War, but that the whole struggle takes place positionally in line with the First World War. Soviet artillery was created on the basis of the experience of the Second World War 300 barrels per kilometer, a fire shaft for the entire depth of defense, a powerful infantry throw, and then the introduction of mobile mobile groups into a breakthrough with air supremacy. So we came to the conclusion that we have Soviet artillery, tanks, planes, but there is no infantry ... Russia does not have enough infantry to simply defend the frontiers ...
    1. stankow
      stankow 13 December 2022 02: 34
      +3
      With a professional army, it is the infantry that is reduced to a minimum. And not the calculations of the radar and Iskanders, they are contract soldiers. And here is the result, there is air defense, and there is a shortage of submachine gunners.
    2. vlad106
      vlad106 14 December 2022 17: 59
      0
      Quote: Igor Zhorov
      So we came to the conclusion that we have Soviet artillery, tanks, planes, but there is no infantry ... Russia does not have enough infantry to simply defend the frontiers


      Yes! The T-34 tanks will go soon ... MANPADS are probably also outdated. With Calibers, I don’t know how, if Electronics does not develop. Whose aircraft avionics?
      UAVs are needed in tens of thousands along the front, so as not to substitute fighters, who are already lacking.
      Why don't they listen to the honest Man Ramzan?
      He also suggested using out of 5 million security officials (FSSP, Private Security, Ministry of Emergency Situations, SOBR, OMON, private security companies, prosecutors, investigative committees, etc.) to send half to the SVO. Those. 2.5 million healthy fighters.
      They would have occupied all of Ukraine long ago, to the western borders!

      But no! DO NOT LISTEN. DO NOT WANT.
      And they drive everyone in a row, including the sick
  9. strannik1985
    strannik1985 12 December 2022 07: 15
    +7
    And why did the infantry not please the author? The price of the "lunar landscape" is 30% of the loss of the enemy, the ability to approach the distance of the safe removal line with an acceptable risk of receiving a "gift" from an anti-tank system or a machine gun. Of course, the UAS are important and necessary, but they are optimal for single targets, the GP is a group target, if AFV, KNP, dugout were identified in its composition - can and should be hit with Krasnopol, and everything else?
    1. cold wind
      cold wind 12 December 2022 09: 16
      +9
      What do you mean by "everything else"? Trees, roads, ground? You need to hit targets, not areas. Any strong point consists of specific targets (fortifications, armored vehicles, infantry) and they need to be destroyed, and not to be engaged in "landscape design".
      To do this:
      1. Quality intelligence.
      2. Accurate, long-range guns.
      3. Precision munitions.

      We have all of this in small quantities. This leads to the replacement of quality by quantity, resulting in:
      1. The concentration of a large number of guns in one place.
      2. The concentration of shells in large quantities in one place
      3. Long complicated logistics.

      All this allowed several dozen HIMARS and others like them to turn the tide at the front. Destroying warehouses and artillery positions. This, in turn, led to the flight from the Kharkov and Kherson regions.
      1. strannik1985
        strannik1985 12 December 2022 09: 43
        +4
        What do you mean

        That’s what I have, they dig a main, spare, false trench for armored vehicles - in total, there are 3 trenches in the VOP for 9 AFVs, there can be mock-ups, including those with a magnetic and thermal signature. Similarly (1-2) on anti-tank systems, RPGs, machine guns and other fire weapons. Will you open them all and hit them? And when, during the attack, the Javelin crew crawls out and burns a tank or infantry fighting vehicle, what will you do?
        All this

        How so?
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 12 December 2022 10: 07
          0
          That’s what I have, they dig a main, spare, false trench for armored vehicles - in total, there are 3 trenches in the VOP for 9 AFVs, there can be mock-ups, including those with a magnetic and thermal signature. Similarly (1-2) on anti-tank systems, RPGs, machine guns and other fire weapons.

          Why are you climbing into the jungle of charters? Just look at the pictures of lunar landscapes in the article - just an open field in all directions. Where is everything that you so colorfully described? Do you see the forest belt in the center of the photo? So, most likely, it was in it that the infantry was knocked out.
          How so?

          So the person wrote to you how - in the summer there was a period when every day several warehouses of RAV and fuel took off into the air in the DPR and LPR.
          1. strannik1985
            strannik1985 12 December 2022 10: 23
            0
            What are you climbing

            What exactly is shown in the photo?
            So man

            They left for a completely different reason.
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 12 December 2022 10: 45
              +1
              What exactly is shown in the photo?

              The main thing is not shown there - "they dig the main, spare, false trench for armored vehicles - in total there are 3 trenches in the VOP for 9 AFVs, there can be mock-ups, including those with a magnetic and thermal signature. Similarly (1-2) on anti-tank systems, RPGs, machine guns and other fire weapons."
              They left for a completely different reason.

              They simply retreated - this is such a tangle of reasons in which the destruction of support is only one of the threads.
              1. strannik1985
                strannik1985 12 December 2022 11: 35
                +5
                The main thing that is not shown

                Truth? Where did the Ukrainians leave the forest belt? Ours occupied her? Did the enemy have artillery?
                Just retreated

                There is always a primary and secondary.
        2. cold wind
          cold wind 12 December 2022 10: 46
          +2
          1. Quality intelligence.

          UAVs should hang over the positions 24/7, revealing real targets. Not these toys like mavics, but full-fledged unmanned aircraft with high-resolution cameras, thermal imagers and radars. Then there is no problem to identify in which trench, right now there is a soldier or armored vehicles.
          They hung about false targets, well, an increase of 5% in the consumption of shells, so what?
          About javilin, see clause 1, if there is high-quality intelligence, then the ATGM crew will be destroyed before the seeker cools down.
          In general, all these strongholds in modern warfare are meaningless, given the quality of intelligence and means of destruction that the leading armies naturally have.
          The current war is relevant for the 70-80s. Therefore, even a few samples of weapons of the 00s give a qualitative change on the battlefield.
          HIMARS knock out warehouses, command posts, infrastructure, accumulations of armored vehicles and manpower. It was after such strikes that control was lost in the Kharkov region. In Kherson, we suffered and are suffering huge losses, which force us to leave our positions.
          1. strannik1985
            strannik1985 12 December 2022 11: 31
            +5
            Over the positions should hang 24/7 UAVs

            Only in the war with the Papuans, in the harsh reality, Khokhols are supplied with all sorts of different things, from anti-drone guns to normal air defense systems. Get used to the fact that the UAV is a consumable, launched into the reconnaissance area - shot down - we are sending a new one ...
            About Javilin

            Perhaps this is news to you, but UAV reconnaissance systems are not limited, in an ordinary motorized rifle battalion there are up to 42 channels from the observer from the squad to the KNP of the battalion commander. And all of them require a variety of technical means, from "simple" night vision devices and thermal imagers, to ground reconnaissance radars, laser devices for determining optical reconnaissance, and much more. In the system, all this can work 24/7, but it costs money, and the budget is not limitless.
            In general, all these

            Even the United States does not have enough budget and opportunities for such a budget.
            HIMARS

            The reason is banal, the enemy prepared and brought into battle reserves, so as not to lose troops in boilers, they were taken to a new line.
            1. karabas-barabas
              karabas-barabas 13 December 2022 01: 09
              -2
              Both sides, the Russian Federation and Ukraine, do not have heavy UAVs, such as the Global Hawk, although Ukraine is threatened to supply such an UAV with a load of more than 1000 kg of bombs and missiles and a powerful optoelectronic system, with the ability to work very deep. They hang high, but are hardly noticeable for the RPLS, since they are not made of iron and do not emit heat.
              1. stankow
                stankow 13 December 2022 02: 42
                +1
                Excellent even noticeable. That's why they don't deliver. Bayraktari were even smaller, even more "plastic", and where are they laughing now ?
                1. karabas-barabas
                  karabas-barabas 13 December 2022 22: 57
                  0
                  What does Bayraktar have to do with it? Bayraktars don't fly at those heights and Bayraktars don't do with stealth technology. But you are an experienced air defense specialist, of course, you have already shot down everything.
                  1. stankow
                    stankow 13 December 2022 23: 09
                    +1
                    I am the captain of the divisional artillery, in reserve. In civilian life - an engineer of radio electronics. But dad commanded an air defense division wink
                  2. stankow
                    stankow 13 December 2022 23: 13
                    +2
                    By the way, all sorts of heavy drones, such as the Global Hawk, never stealth.
          2. Shark Lover
            Shark Lover 13 December 2022 04: 58
            +5
            In general, all these strongholds in modern warfare are meaningless, with such a quality of reconnaissance and means of destruction that the leading armies naturally have

            Everyone thought so and did not prepare for such a war, but she took it and started. And the staff was broken 5 times, it will not be the same as in the last century, but, it will be, with a correction.
            By shells and a lunar landscape. Let's go to the small arms, the cartridges are leaving by the millions, they simply shoot, lifted them over the parapet and fired. Is this a big loss? Yes! Density of fire. Nobody says that one store is just cartridges, one is high-precision. Who is there (except for specialists and reconnaissance in an ambush) to aim at all?
      2. Alexey Lantukh
        Alexey Lantukh 12 December 2022 20: 09
        +1
        In general, it is very difficult to hit important compact targets with conventional shells at a range of, say, 20 km, or you need to spend a wagon of ammunition. I explain: the coordinates of the target and the battery are determined by the GLONASS system with an error of up to 10 meters. The directional angle for shooting with the help of a compass is 10 divisions of the goniometer, which is equal to 20 meters for 200 km. Gunners on the gun and its wear of divisions 10 (panorama backlash, shaking-swing without re-control of aiming, wear and curvature-heating of the barrel) uneven characteristics and underestimation: gunpowder temperatures in different charges, weather conditions (rain, wind, fog) will give another 10 divisions (200m) no less Total: deviation of more than half a kilometer, sometimes more. Summary: in these conditions, you need to shoot as close to the front line as possible, better from fortified shelters, with false positions, with false guns, and not shoot from a full charge.
        1. cold wind
          cold wind 12 December 2022 20: 24
          +2
          Your reasoning is relevant for the 70s. Already in the 80s, automation took over these tasks. Target coordinates, gun coordinates are set. The calculation exposes the given parameters. After the shot, the “radar” calculates the trajectory of the projectile that has flown out, an amendment is made, the next shot. This achieves high accuracy even with conventional projectiles. Naturally, this is not about us.
        2. stankow
          stankow 13 December 2022 02: 53
          +2
          Alexey Lantukh
          ##Directional angle for shooting with a compass 10 protractor divisions

          Magnetic arrow. In other ways - one division

          ##backlash panorama
          No, let down on one side, the backlash is removed

          ## shaking-swinging without re-control pickup
          Aiming is restored after each shot

          ###wear and curvature-heating of the barrel
          Learned

          ### gunpowder temperatures in different charges
          Learned

          ###, weather conditions (rain, wind, fog
          are learning

          ## will give 10 more divisions (200m)
          Nothing will be given

          ##deviation more than half a kilometer
          No more than 200 m. For the first projectile. Then two more sightings. And the deviation of the guidance point from the target is 1 thousand. Further shooting on defeat.

          ###sometimes more
          Never
          1. Alexey Lantukh
            Alexey Lantukh 14 December 2022 11: 02
            +1
            Once upon a time he served as a surveyor. Mastered the compass, gyrocompass, theodolite, surveyor. Regarding the comment: what is shown on TV, especially in militia units, is often artillery and equipment from storage, i.e. outdated equipment. It is clear that in this kit there is no UAV, no radar, no weather batteries and no gyrocompasses that can give a more accurate directional angle. And there are used barrels with good, if not close to wear limit, and in which the projectile may no longer have a sufficiently stable flight path, even after adjustments after zeroing. Questions about powder charges that have been stored for a long time and are unlikely to have sufficient stability in terms of shot energy. Of course, calculators on home tablets, taking into account zeroing, will provide one thousandth, but in reality, the accuracy of our artillery driven by Hymers at the maximum distance may well be expressed in 10 thousandths, which means 20 meters at 200 km, and 5 meters at 50 km, which is already something. So there is something to work on, even purely in organizational terms, which I did not write about, since little is known.
            1. stankow
              stankow 15 December 2022 00: 23
              +1
              Yes, you are correct. It's a big problem. Almost only militia and Chechens show on TV and telegraph. And according to them, other comrades judge how things are with artillery in the regular units of the RF Armed Forces. This is where disputes are born. And then enemy propaganda will take advantage ...
      3. alexoff
        alexoff 12 December 2022 21: 16
        +2
        In the fields, artillery usually works like this - dry equipment rides along the forest belt. Let's say we drive into the first two cars in the red field, they are on fire, well done! From the rest of the column, the infantry, don't be fools, begins to dismount and scatter in all directions. This is how they should be covered. We didn’t see how such fields appeared, how many small columns of 3-5 cars were winding there, and how many zigzags ran up, we couldn’t see. If drones with machine guns flew there after the strikes with red fields, then they would have completed the job better, but we don’t have them.
      4. stankow
        stankow 13 December 2022 02: 36
        +3
        It is impossible to hit a flat target like a lot of single ones. You just don't have enough time for that.
      5. nickname7
        nickname7 13 December 2022 15: 46
        +3
        All this allowed several dozen HIMARS and others like them to turn the tide at the front

        HIMARS could be countered with lancets if they were in large quantities at the beginning of the CBO, but alas, there were no lancets.
        By the way, Ryabov wrote that HIMARS is complete bullshit, but how it turned out ...
  10. Al manah
    Al manah 12 December 2022 07: 23
    0
    Russian artillery today has simply huge problems. It is difficult, perhaps, to say who has fewer of them than the gunners.

    Actually, the quintessence of the entire article.
    1. stankow
      stankow 13 December 2022 03: 00
      +3
      But completely wrong. If at all there is a branch of the armed forces that does its job well in the NVO, it is Russian artillery!
      1. Al manah
        Al manah 13 December 2022 08: 24
        0
        Yes, yes, the author is lying, everything is fine with us and even better.
  11. AvesevA
    AvesevA 12 December 2022 07: 28
    -22
    The article is bad. It is a pity that you can not minus the articles themselves. Questions arose about the personality of the author. It is disgusting to read, misrepresents, whoever wants to believe in every word. For everyone else, I recommend not reading at all.
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 12 December 2022 08: 29
      +11
      Quote from Avesev
      The article is bad.

      Not a hat?
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 12 December 2022 11: 12
        +8
        Quote: Stas157
        Not a hat?

        Can I advise citizen Murza to read - a cycle about communications and artillery? laughing
        Or about the fact that the supply of gunners with artbooks and software updates for them is carried out by volunteers using public money.
    2. Arbeiternegast
      Arbeiternegast 13 December 2022 01: 26
      -3
      Misinterpreting? Author? Come on, chop the truth with a worthy comment! In defiance of a bad article! With reasonable calculations for misrepresentation! Otherwise, it's a fart in an empty barrel ....
  12. strannik1985
    strannik1985 12 December 2022 07: 28
    +6
    But then try

    To fire a dozen shells at a target the size of a city, 2-5 minutes is enough, to support the troops in the attack (art. escort and preparation) you need to fire hundreds of shells, do not confuse warm with soft.
    In the first case, the counter-battery is on the verge of a fundamental possibility, because the sound and radar systems give approximate coordinates, the expense for a single target is 300 shells, and you cannot hang a drone over each square.
    In the second, the latest artillery systems of the Pz 2000 type are more or less stable, because they can fire in the short fire raid - movement - short fire raid mode ... and then approximately in the firing area you can send UAVs for additional reconnaissance.
    1. alexmach
      alexmach 13 December 2022 01: 07
      0
      In the first case, the counter-battery is on the verge of a fundamental possibility, because the sound and radar systems give approximate coordinates, the expense for a single target is 300 shells, and you cannot hang a drone over each square.

      And at approximate coordinates, quickly launch a drone for additional reconnaissance? There was even some kind of miracle in the rocket from the RZSO .. It is clear that he still has to be forced to work properly. And with him it would be nice to organize the highlighting of the goal. And all this is also so that the UAV would be cheap, expendable ... oh, I was dreaming of something.
    2. Arbeiternegast
      Arbeiternegast 13 December 2022 01: 29
      -4
      I wonder how, then, near Leningrad, our counter-batteries coped with the Germans? With such problems?
  13. Vladimir100
    Vladimir100 12 December 2022 07: 38
    -4
    If you think carefully, you can find methods to fight against the Highmars and other mobile artillery. For example, to throw potential routes of their movement and positions for firing with acoustic sensors, which will allow them to be detected and tracked in advance, reducing the surprise factor.
    As soon as a diesel engine hums somewhere with a characteristic sound, this defense-offensive sector is immediately activated, it is taken under control by drones and a strike is being prepared to kill.
  14. Andy_nsk
    Andy_nsk 12 December 2022 07: 43
    +11
    From my point of view of a development engineer, the conversion of a large-caliber gun and projectile into a high-precision projectile is still hemorrhoids, work is to start and finish. It is much easier to make a newly controlled supersonic missile with a combined seeker (inertial + GLONASS + tele). The modern elemental base allows you to do everything beautifully. And it is available despite all the sighs on the Internet. It is hardly possible to intercept such a missile (and it is not difficult to make it with an arbitrary trajectory and a speed of at least 3 Mach). The cost of such a missile in mass production, I am sure, will be lower than a guided projectile. The launcher is much cheaper than a large caliber howitzer. Well, the interaction of artillery with intelligence is, in my opinion, a separate and painful issue that was not born yesterday :(((
    1. cold wind
      cold wind 12 December 2022 08: 49
      +1
      Hmm ... If such "development engineers" work for us, it's clear why he has so many problems in the industry. Converting a projectile into a guided one takes about 10 seconds. There is no need to even talk about the cost and "simplicity".


      1. Andy_nsk
        Andy_nsk 12 December 2022 09: 14
        +6
        Converting a projectile into a guided one takes 10 seconds

        Are you sure? To make a guided projectile you need:
        1. Develop GOS.
        2. Develop a controlled plumage and control drives.
        All this should work at accelerations of tens or even hundreds of thousands of g.
        Revision is also required or the most art. installation, or the creation of a special control center.
        And our army has none of this from the word at all. And in order to screw the GOS into the projectile, it really takes a few seconds. The fact that you do not understand this is not a big deal. But I doubt that even the generals of the Defense Ministry and the General Staff understand this. If they have the same ideas about high-precision weapons as you do, then this is a disaster!
        1. cold wind
          cold wind 12 December 2022 09: 33
          0
          Oh ... How difficult it is ... Nothing that everything you wrote has already been developed and is fighting? Developed by real, Soviet design engineers in the 70s? Krasnopol is called and it turns out there is even in the army. In the photo PGK, nothing needs to be modified with it at all, standard howitzers and shells are used. By the way, we also have such a development called "Dynamics" from the ICD "Compass". Except: learn the materiel - I have nothing more to tell you.
          1. Andy_nsk
            Andy_nsk 12 December 2022 09: 51
            +1
            Have you read the article? Or the Chukchi is not a reader, the Chukchi is a writer! We are talking about high-powered guns of 203 mm caliber. And Krasnopol in caliber 152 mm.
            1. cold wind
              cold wind 12 December 2022 10: 18
              -1
              It is impossible not to respond to such madness ... i.e. Do you think if a guided projectile is made in 152 mm caliber, it cannot be made in 203 mm or will it be technically different? Seriously? Do you understand that a 203 mm projectile is 2 times (at least) more than a 152 mm projectile? Those. what is implemented in those more complex conditions is more difficult to do in simpler ones?
              Secondly, if you read the article, then you would understand that it is about artillery, about Malka / peony is written only at the beginning of this material.
              1. Andy_nsk
                Andy_nsk 12 December 2022 10: 47
                +5
                those. Do you think if a guided projectile is made in 152 mm caliber, it cannot be made in 203 mm or will it be technically different?

                Yes, it will be completely different, from beginning to end. If only because Krasnopol was developed, as you write, by real developers of the 70s ready of the last century. Developers in 2022 will be making new development for a number of reasons. Caliber doesn't matter. Firstly, from the point of view of electronics, a new element base will be used (it changes almost completely every 10 years), and it is impossible to use those microcircuits (and most likely even transistors) that were produced in the last century. There is such a rule among developers: ONLY new components that are ALLOWED for use in new products are put into a new product. Secondly, all drive electrical equipment is also discontinued. Thirdly - sensors (or more correctly - primary converters) without them there is no high-precision weapon - you need to make or look for new ones. And finally, all adhesives, sealants, etc., without which such shells are unthinkable (taking into account the huge overload), are now either no longer produced, or the technological cycle must be re-organized. In general, there will be the most problems with technology, you obviously don’t even close to imagine how difficult it is. That is why I wrote in my first post that it is much easier, more technologically advanced, cheaper to make high-precision supersonic missiles for counter-battery combat than to remake large-caliber guns.
                1. storm
                  storm 12 December 2022 21: 37
                  0
                  In general, there will be the most problems with technology, you obviously don’t even close to imagine how difficult it is. That is why I wrote in my first post that it is much easier, more technologically advanced, cheaper to make high-precision supersonic missiles for counter-battery combat than to remake large-caliber guns.

                  An example of high-precision ammunition for firing at long ranges is the Krasnopol-D projectile.
                  The complex application in UAS "Krasnopol-D" of modern achievements in the field of inertial satellite guidance system for guided missiles in conjunction with homing in the final section of the trajectory ensures that the requirements for the firing range of artillery systems and high-precision hits on moving and stationary targets.
                  In order to adapt the Krasnopol-D for firing from a caliber of 203 mm, technologies of the 21st century are not needed, but a jet engine that is several times more powerful than in a caliber of 152 mm will allow firing at a distance of up to 100 km, and possibly more.
                  1. alexmach
                    alexmach 13 December 2022 01: 24
                    -4
                    Forgive me, but the modern Krasnopol is absolutely exactly built on a modern elemental base, and not on any inventions of the 70s ... Andrey is completely right.
              2. Andy_nsk
                Andy_nsk 12 December 2022 11: 10
                +6
                And finally, from a purely practical point of view, using the Krasnopol projectile for counter-battery combat is a very bad option. He has a laser-guided seeker (the most primitive control system among all existing ones). This means that someone must illuminate the target with a laser beam, it can be either a DRG or an aircraft. How do you imagine that? I proposed a combined version of the GOS (Inertial + GLONASS + Tele), it can be used immediately after the position of the battery (guns, launchers) of the enemy is determined.
                1. stankow
                  stankow 13 December 2022 13: 30
                  +1
                  The target is illuminated from the associated ground observation point as part of the division. At a distance of 1-2 km from the LBS in the disposition of their troops. DRG has nothing to do with it. She works behind the enemy lines. Does not belong to a division. And just the lighting equipment will not be carried away, it is weighty.
                  1. Andy_nsk
                    Andy_nsk 13 December 2022 15: 52
                    0
                    Those. if there is no direct visual contact with the target, then Krasnopol shells cannot be used, did I understand you correctly? This, in my opinion, limits their use to the limit both in counter-battery combat and when working on other targets.
                    1. stankow
                      stankow 13 December 2022 22: 19
                      +2
                      Yes, to use a laser-guided projectile, the target must be observable. Otherwise, it cannot be illuminated. For counter-battery combat of the WTO, weapons are not applicable. The battery is a flat target and is not fired upon as a set of single targets. There, at the OP, there are a lot of them. It’s just that time and expensive WTO shells are not enough. To suppress a towed battery, 300 shells are needed, to destroy 600, to destroy an ACS battery up to 900. The division will shoot all day. In the meantime, the infantry will wait for the fire of their artillery; without it, they cannot complete tasks. So the gunners rarely arrange a showdown among themselves. At least heaps of other fire tasks.
                      1. ada
                        ada 14 December 2022 01: 36
                        +1
                        Quote: stankow
                        ... The battery is a flat target and is not fired upon as a set of single targets. ...
                        Here a nuance is possible in the size and nature of the target - a dedicated installation, a platoon (gun, BM) or an OP front that exceeds the one set for the target, the importance of the target:
                        PSiUO-96. 8.1.2 DESTROY ARTILLERY, JET,
                        MORTAR AND ANTI-Aircraft Batteries (platoons) "... If the front and depth of the enemy battery do not exceed the maximum target size (Table 8.1),
                        then it is hit as one target. With large targets, fire is fired in groups of two or more
                        closely spaced guns (installations), taking them for a platoon. ...".

                        It is likely that now, a particularly important target, in the form of a separate weapon and installation, not observed from the ground (8.1 Defeat stationary unobservable targets
                        Fixed non-observable (visually from ground observation posts)
                        ), Besides: "8.1.1 HIT INDIVIDUAL TARGETS
                        Tactical missile launchers destroy; other important individual targets (guns, rocket launchers, mortars; ATGM installations and anti-tank guns; anti-aircraft guns; SAM and ZSU installations with an autonomous guidance system, etc.) are destroyed and suppressed, and radar and radio engineering stations, interference stations for radio fuses
                        suppress."
                        , maybe under the WTO when observed and illuminated from the air or by ground reconnaissance forces. And, so, in the old way, there are decent volumes for attracted units:
                        "Batteries (platoons) of self-propelled armored guns (mortars) are suppressed, and batteries (platoons) of self-propelled unarmored guns are destroyed, as a rule, immediately upon their discovery, for which cannon and howitzer artillery units of 100 mm caliber and larger are involved.
                        The target is hit with one fire raid, which is carried out by rapid fire. For battery suppression
                        (platoon) of self-propelled armored guns (mortars) when firing at a distance of 10 km or less, as a rule, one division and an additional one division for every subsequent 5 km of firing range are involved. To destroy a battery (platoon) of self-propelled unarmored guns when firing at a range of 10 km or less, one division is involved, and at long ranges - at least
                        two divisions."
                        Chimeras, in the area or in position, what is it now referred to? To PU TR?
                      2. stankow
                        stankow 14 December 2022 02: 13
                        +1
                        wink No one can say more precisely than instruction.

                        And according to the Hymers - yes, I think it’s like PU TR. Because they can run such - ATACMS. And since it is impossible to know what the charge is, one must assume the worst. Approximately how nuclear weapons - TNW can shoot - are destroyed, for every case.
                2. nickname7
                  nickname7 13 December 2022 15: 57
                  +1
                  someone needs to illuminate with a laser beam

                  Grenades are dropped from copters, it turns out to be dropped once, so if this copter illuminated the target, this would allow destroying many targets with whole trenches. Such a thing could reverse the course of the NWO.
                  Maybe the backlight is worse, but still quite a working tool.
                  1. Andy_nsk
                    Andy_nsk 13 December 2022 19: 54
                    0
                    Grenades are dropped from copters, it turns out to be dropped once, so if this copter illuminated the target, this would allow destroying many targets with whole trenches.

                    Personally, I have never seen a laser for target illumination, but the respected Stankow writes in his post a little higher in the thread:
                    And just the lighting equipment will not be carried away, it is weighty.

                    It turns out that the UAV must be sufficiently carrying capacity, have excellent optics, a fast and powerful communication channel, which means it is impossible to make it inconspicuous - a good target for air defense, and besides, an expensive toy, it will be difficult to make them in thousands. Again, it seems more profitable to use high-precision guided missiles with more advanced seekers, for example, like the Hymars.
                    1. stankow
                      stankow 13 December 2022 22: 43
                      +2
                      Andy_nsk Yes, not every drone will lift lighting equipment and equipment for the necessary communication. And not very easy to keep the laser spot on the target. You need skill, you need a second operator. We need KUNG, we need a good connection with the NP of the battery and division. We need a communication channel with a slight delay, good optics with very, very accurate remote guidance and stabilization, up to a fraction of a thousand. Krasnopol's lighting equipment - "Malachite" weighs 53 kg, the calculation is three people. Of course, there are more modern ones, much easier, but the troops are not yet saturated.
                      1. nickname7
                        nickname7 14 December 2022 12: 32
                        0
                        not very easy to keep the laser spot on the target

                        There are stabilizers
                        Krasnopol lighting equipment - "Malachite" weigh 53

                        Laser pointers weigh 100 grams.
                        each drone will lift lighting equipment

                        The equipment needs to be made compact, but here it seems we are running into technological backwardness, but it will end in failure, because if the West does this, then we will have to feel what the Papuans felt with bows against guns.
                      2. stankow
                        stankow 14 December 2022 22: 57
                        +1
                        nickname7 Yes, you need an outstanding stabilizer. And he weighs and consumes.

                        Laser pointers are not a decree for us wink There is not enough power, you still need to modulate the beam ... Modern ground Russian target designators - 14 kg, there are western 2 kg, but without a tripod and a heat pack, in real life more. Still advertising is one thing, the population of troops is completely different.
                      3. nickname7
                        nickname7 16 December 2022 14: 01
                        0
                        Laser pointers are not a decree for us

                        If so, you can do without a laser, from a drone to calculate the cordianates of targets to transmit to artillery.
                      4. stankow
                        stankow 17 December 2022 00: 59
                        +1
                        Determination of targets and coordinates of targets from the image transmitted by the drone is not done by the drone's processor. And not even on the drone control panel by the operator. Recognition and qualification of targets is a very complex task and it is solved somehow by AI or completely by a person. This is the concern of the photogrammers in the battalion of the division or artillery reconnaissance from the control platoon at the command post. No computer can compete with a person in this. Drone operators also do not own this business, they only lead and are responsible for the drone. As in aerial reconnaissance - the pilot leads the aircraft (helicopter), and the spotter on board observes and corrects. Different specialties, everything is not easy.
                      5. Akhr82
                        Akhr82 15 December 2022 04: 11
                        +1
                        Laser pointers are great, of course, but they are not suitable for war at all. The laser beam must be of a certain wavelength, otherwise the enemy will cause a huge amount of interference with the same pointers. so the equipment is heavy.
                    2. stankow
                      stankow 13 December 2022 22: 53
                      +1
                      #### it seems more profitable to use high-precision guided missiles with more advanced seeker, for example, like the Hymars

                      Hymars has a GPS correction. Cannot shoot at moving targets and targets that appear during combat. There is no time to shoot and load coordinates in the memory of the heads. Only for stationary, previously explored targets. There is no single, ideal guidance system. Rather, they complement each other.
                    3. ada
                      ada 13 December 2022 23: 09
                      +1
                      Quote from Andy_nsk
                      Personally, I have never seen a laser for target illumination, but the respected Stankow writes in his post a little higher in the thread:
                      And just the lighting equipment will not be carried away, it is weighty.


                      https://masterok.livejournal.com/4050065.html
                    4. ada
                      ada 13 December 2022 23: 10
                      0
                      Quote from Andy_nsk
                      Personally, I have never seen a laser for target illumination, but the respected Stankow writes in his post a little higher in the thread:
                      And just the lighting equipment will not be carried away, it is weighty.


                      https://masterok.livejournal.com/4050065.html
                      1. stankow
                        stankow 13 December 2022 23: 54
                        +1
                        ada Nice, good read! Photos, figures, descriptions. But there are too many bugs :(
                      2. ada
                        ada 14 December 2022 01: 47
                        +1
                        Duc, near-military popular science laughing
                      3. stankow
                        stankow 14 December 2022 02: 03
                        +1
                        Exactly. And yet it was new for me too!
                  2. stankow
                    stankow 13 December 2022 22: 36
                    +1
                    nickname7 It is not profitable to shoot at trenches with a corrected projectile. It is used for especially important purposes - NP, KP, communication center, radar station, tank, rocket launcher. At the same time, you need to have enough time and there were no fire tasks to support your infantry. And then while one, the main gun of the battery shoots, the rest are idle. The senior officer of the battery and even the entire NP of the battery are only engaged in this. For trenches, there are HE shells, a high-explosive fuse.
        2. YOUR
          YOUR 13 December 2022 04: 24
          -1
          Quote from Andy_nsk
          To make a guided projectile you need:
          1. Develop GOS.
          2. Develop a controlled plumage and control drives.

          There are so many of them at least on MANPADS, on short-range air-to-air missiles that it remains only to modernize. So not a problem. The problem is in the industry.
          1. Andy_nsk
            Andy_nsk 13 December 2022 06: 42
            +3
            There are so many of them at least on MANPADS, on short-range air-to-air missiles that it remains only to modernize. So not a problem. The problem is in the industry.

            Do you not understand the difference between a guided missile and a guided projectile? I wrote about it in the very first post. The acceleration of the projectile when fired is approximately 100000g, the acceleration of the rocket is 100g - the difference is about a thousand times. design solutions that are applied in MANPADS will not work in a projectile. When fired, they will collapse. 100% guarantee. As for the problem in industry, I would say in Bulgakov's words: "The devastation is in the minds!" Problems in the minds of the generals from the Moscow Region, the leaders of the military-industrial complex. It's no secret that the president selects people based on personal loyalty, not on professional qualities. And it's very noticeable.
            1. YOUR
              YOUR 13 December 2022 06: 48
              -1
              Quote from Andy_nsk
              The acceleration of the projectile when fired is approximately 100000g,

              And as soon as the fuse does not work at such an acceleration. There everything should be compressed to a point.
              1. Andy_nsk
                Andy_nsk 13 December 2022 09: 15
                +1
                And as soon as the fuse does not work at such an acceleration. There everything should be compressed to a point.

                One of my colleagues for some time was engaged in installing accelerometers (acceleration sensors) on pile drivers (hammers for driving piles), but even in such extreme conditions, there was nothing close to what happens to the projectile while it accelerates inside the barrel. I can only take off my hat (virtually) to the developers of guided high-precision projectiles. And the fuse is a simple and long-established product.
                1. YOUR
                  YOUR 13 December 2022 09: 18
                  +2
                  Quote from Andy_nsk
                  And the fuse is a simple and long-established product.

                  That's for sure. The drummer fell off the hook and hello to the guests.
                  1. Andy_nsk
                    Andy_nsk 13 December 2022 09: 36
                    0
                    That's for sure. The drummer fell off the hook and hello to the guests.

                    Do things like this happen that often? I heard from non-brothers when testing a new mortar, the barrel was torn, though I don’t know either the reasons or whether the calculation was damaged.
                    1. YOUR
                      YOUR 13 December 2022 10: 42
                      +1
                      Quote from Andy_nsk
                      Do things like this happen that often?

                      Here I am about the same. So why, when fired at the projectile, should the seeker flatten and the wings fly off, which, by the way, open already in the final section.
                2. nickname7
                  nickname7 13 December 2022 16: 00
                  0
                  extreme conditions

                  The projectile is corrected in the last kilometers, when the speed drops, it is not possible to listen to you, but they do so that you are wrong.
                  1. Andy_nsk
                    Andy_nsk 13 December 2022 17: 21
                    0
                    it's impossible to listen to you

                    Please post the link where I wrote that it can't be done. The task of the developer is always to find the best option to achieve the goal at minimal cost. However, if you approach this issue philosophically, then this is a task for any activity.
  15. Kuroneko
    Kuroneko 12 December 2022 07: 44
    0
    However, there is no special essence in these senseless firing of tens of thousands of shells either. "Lunar landscape" is certainly impressive, but it impresses with its cruel senselessness, as the shells just plow the fields or residential areas.

    Roman, would it not be difficult for you to give clear, convincing examples when our art plowed up RESIDENTIAL quarters?
    Thank you in advance.
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 12 December 2022 08: 34
      +3
      Quote: Kuroneko
      Roman, it won't bother you provide clear, compelling exampleswhen our art plowed up RESIDENTIAL quarters?

      Were these very illustrative pictures with a lunar landscape not enough for you? Do you think it will be different elsewhere (much more accurate)?
      1. strannik1985
        strannik1985 12 December 2022 08: 40
        -4
        Why don't you like the lunar landscape? wink
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 12 December 2022 08: 45
          +8
          Quote: strannik1985
          Why don't you like the lunar landscape?

          Low efficiency, high consumption, heavy load on logistics... These cannot be attributed to advantages.
          1. strannik1985
            strannik1985 12 December 2022 08: 46
            -4
            Why did you decide that the efficiency is low?
            Do you recall the normative consumption of shells per hectare of a strong point?
            1. Stas157
              Stas157 12 December 2022 08: 55
              +1
              Quote: strannik1985
              Why did you decide that the efficiency is low?

              I'll give you an expert's opinion:

              The advantage (of high-precision projectiles) is that it will take not five to ten artillery shells to destroy the target, but only one "Krasnopol-M2". This will save the ammunition necessary for the conduct of hostilities.
              1. Vasilyevich Pensioner
                Vasilyevich Pensioner 12 December 2022 09: 00
                0
                But here you can object. And what was in this place before such a landscape turned out? Or maybe at this place there was activity throughout the area?
                1. Stas157
                  Stas157 12 December 2022 09: 10
                  -1
                  Quote: Vasilyevich Pensioner
                  But here you can object.

                  You can argue, but it is unlikely that activity over the entire area always happens. Ukrainians usually take shelter in the forest belt, and cover much larger areas.
                  1. Vasilyevich Pensioner
                    Vasilyevich Pensioner 12 December 2022 09: 14
                    +5
                    I can add an option. And if, after hitting the forest belt, they rushed into the loose? Judging by the pictures from the drones, during the shelling, they begin to rush about randomly. Now, if the author laid out the process of shelling an empty square, then yes. And it's just imagination.
              2. strannik1985
                strannik1985 12 December 2022 09: 07
                +5
                I will bring you

                One UAS all positions of anti-tank systems, machine guns and other fire weapons? Dugouts, blocked gaps, fox holes, main and reserve positions of fire weapons? Seriously?
                1. Stas157
                  Stas157 12 December 2022 09: 18
                  -2
                  Quote: strannik1985
                  One UAS all positions

                  Why one and all at once? Why are you so exaggerating? And one - one, but reliably, does not count?

                  After all, even an expert’s opinion was given to you that where a target can be destroyed with one high-precision munition (Krasnopol), 10 ordinary ones may be needed. Here is your efficiency. But for some reason you ignored it.
                  1. strannik1985
                    strannik1985 12 December 2022 09: 45
                    +3
                    Why one

                    Because to open all the firepower of the platoon and hit the WTO from the category of unscientific fiction. The UAV facilitates control, where there was a decrease by a quarter now by half or more, but still hundreds of shells.
                  2. Woodman
                    Woodman 12 December 2022 10: 21
                    +3
                    Quote: Stas157
                    After all, even an expert opinion was given to you,

                    Now the concept of "expert" is so vague that it becomes synonymous with "British scientists", and your "given" does not indicate either the last name, position, title, or place of work / service ...
                    1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
                      Sergey Aleksandrovich 12 December 2022 12: 41
                      +4
                      There, the expert's opinion is distorted. When hitting an area target, the use of guided or cluster munitions reduces their consumption by 3 times, but not by 5-10.
            2. cmax
              cmax 12 December 2022 19: 51
              -2
              Quote: strannik1985
              Why did you decide that the efficiency is low?
              Do you recall the normative consumption of shells per hectare of a strong point?

              And do not remind the weight of the Voroshilov salvo of the Red Army division in 1941. The year 2022 is coming, and you, like some military men, live by all the standards. Compare Starlink Mask and Ragozin's trampoline.
            3. nickname7
              nickname7 13 December 2022 16: 03
              -1
              In the picture, it was necessary to hit the forest belt in one gulp in a row, for reliability, and twice in a row, then instead of sowing the fields, much fewer shells would be needed.
              Do not remind the normative consumption of shells per hectare of a strong point

              WWII rules are outdated.
              1. strannik1985
                strannik1985 13 December 2022 17: 09
                +1
                In the picture, it was necessary to hit the forest belt in one gulp in a row,

                Those. is this a picture after artillery preparation? Where is it written about it?
                WWII rules are outdated.

                As it were, on the contrary, taking into account the tank danger of infantry, firing conventional shells is more relevant than ever.
              2. stankow
                stankow 14 December 2022 00: 00
                +1
                Yes, they are outdated. In the direction of increasing the number of necessary shells and suppressing the stronghold.
                1. nickname7
                  nickname7 14 December 2022 12: 25
                  0
                  outdated. In the direction of increasing the number of necessary shells and suppressing the stronghold.

                  Well then, SBO will last until the second coming.
                  1. stankow
                    stankow 14 December 2022 23: 00
                    0
                    The one who shoots last wins. And the Armed Forces of Ukraine run out of shells faster ...
          2. Shark Lover
            Shark Lover 13 December 2022 05: 39
            +1
            15 people are sitting in the trenches, the trench is 500 meters. 15 observers, sitting at intervals of 30 meters, in a winding trench, report on the movement of the enemy. Or sit in pairs with an interval of 60 meters. Which pair is preferable to bang pointwise precision-guided munitions? It is possible for everyone, but they are hiding, bastards, you will not understand where they are. Further, these observers report that 500 people are walking towards us, at the front of 30 meters (there was a video), the tanks hit on the move, 3 pieces from 2 km, they move frontally, chaotically (A. Filatov also has a video) The distance between the advancing meters is 70 between groups, groups of 3 people, maneuver, crawl along ditches, etc. For whom to gasp with high-precision? It's about lunar landscapes. Again, the lunar landscape clears the cutting edge.
            1. nickname7
              nickname7 13 December 2022 16: 13
              0
              trenches sit 15

              A couple of drones with a heat pack and a multi-illumination laser hang in the air, the drone highlights 15 targets in the trench, then fires a volley of 15 lemon-sized ammunition and 15 targets are destroyed. Then transfer to the next 30 and to the next 15, and that ammunition consumption is 1: 1.
              1. stankow
                stankow 14 December 2022 00: 05
                +1
                nickname7 The drone cannot highlight more than one target. After all, the goal is "carried out" by the operator, almost manually. WTO salvo is not fired. And one goal after another. You will need 15 times more time. Which is not in combat. That's why they shoot with quick fire, ordinary shells.
                1. nickname7
                  nickname7 14 December 2022 12: 23
                  0
                  Drone cannot highlight more than one target

                  Maybe today's drones cannot, but in theory it is necessary to develop longs with the capture and illumination of several targets, from then it will be a real wunderwaffe.
                  WTO volley do not shoot

                  Again, it needs to be developed.
                  1. stankow
                    stankow 14 December 2022 23: 09
                    +1
                    So I don't mind! The engineer himself, sometimes I also dream, zhx, let's add a modern block here, yes multi-channel, zdak 12 channels, yes we will attach a neural network wink Maybe your generation will! In the meantime, I pretend to be the "devil's advocate" and I want you to have an accurate and realistic idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe automated phenomenon - "artillery" wink
        2. tarkhil
          tarkhil 12 December 2022 08: 46
          +1
          In general, everyone. This approach did not work very well in WWI. If four guns, a copter, and forty shells do the job that required forty guns and eight hundred shells, then we have changed an era. It's no longer worth cleaning guns with bricks.
          1. strannik1985
            strannik1985 12 December 2022 09: 04
            +2
            It's no longer worth cleaning guns with bricks.

            A couple of years ago, they posted a presentation with the results of the work of the ROK from the Orlan-10 UAV and the 12-barrel 2S1 division.
            Consumption on the detected counter-battery radar 38 shells, strong point (2 dugouts, shelter for l / s, 2 mortar positions) 400x400 meters, approximately 30% loss - 120 shells. 40 - if you shoot with Krasnopoles.
            1. tarkhil
              tarkhil 12 December 2022 11: 36
              +1
              And what do we have now, in fact, with mass work, not with presentations at maneuvers in the presence of the highest persons? How much time now passes from the application of the infantry to the operation of the artillery? Why so many photos and videos with "lunar landscape"?...
              1. strannik1985
                strannik1985 12 December 2022 11: 37
                +4
                Who will publish such information?
                Whoever gives the correct answer will receive 10 years (s) wink
            2. Sergey VTC
              Sergey VTC 12 December 2022 16: 53
              -2
              Quote: strannik1985
              It's no longer worth cleaning guns with bricks.

              A couple of years ago, they posted a presentation with the results of the work of the ROK from the Orlan-10 UAV and the 12-barrel 2S1 division.
              Consumption on the detected counter-battery radar 38 shells, strong point (2 dugouts, shelter for l / s, 2 mortar positions) 400x400 meters, approximately 30% loss - 120 shells. 40 - if you shoot with Krasnopoles.

              Do you really think that Krasnopol costs as much as an ordinary projectile? And the difference is only in their accuracy?
    2. jacket
      jacket 12 December 2022 09: 24
      -3
      Quote: Kuroneko
      However, there is no special essence in these senseless firing of tens of thousands of shells either. "Lunar landscape" is certainly impressive, but it impresses with its cruel senselessness, as the shells just plow the fields or residential areas.

      Roman, would it not be difficult for you to give clear, convincing examples when our art plowed up RESIDENTIAL quarters?
      Thank you in advance.

      Severodonetsk, for example.
    3. Woodman
      Woodman 12 December 2022 10: 18
      -2
      Quote: Kuroneko
      Roman, it will not be difficult to bring you

      The author is above this ... He is not up to trifles.
  16. _palych_
    _palych_ 12 December 2022 07: 49
    +5
    If anyone takes it to the NVO, it’s Russian artillery. The author, as always, went on top, just look at the titles of his articles and remember the “holy nineties” when they blamed everything Soviet, writes about the 21st century and got stuck in the 20th. It’s time to enter the exclusion button on site, clicked and still there is no author and his articles to read.
    1. Woodman
      Woodman 12 December 2022 10: 23
      +1
      Quote: _palych_
      It's time to enter the exclusion button on the site, clicked and still there is no author

      It's good for people, but not for "business". They won't enter. Just like the flags.
    2. Arigin
      Arigin 12 December 2022 12: 42
      +4
      The author will be removed from the site, but the problems will remain. Need to understand.
    3. nickname7
      nickname7 13 December 2022 16: 21
      -1
      If anyone takes them to the NVO, it's Russian artillery

      You misunderstood the artillery, but at the limit of its capabilities and due to the overexpenditure of shells, if you increase the accuracy, then it will be possible to advance and win and not sit in positions.
  17. Vasilyevich Pensioner
    Vasilyevich Pensioner 12 December 2022 07: 52
    -9
    Reviews about our T-90M were very respectful and on the verge of admiration. There was a tank major as an expert - he unequivocally said that the T-90M would have done complete chaos, and that this tank is much better than the latest T-64BV model.
    And what is the fate of this expert?

    how the visits of Ukrainian drones end, but they still don’t know how to distinguish their own from others. So for now it works.
    This is where the author screwed up. I personally saw several reports of military correspondents, in which the fighters reported on the ease of distinguishing between our and Ukrainian drones. After that, all the author's reasoning faded.
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 12 December 2022 08: 05
      +1
      I personally saw several reports of military correspondents


      Really? Did you see it yourself? Do you also watch TV yourself?
      1. Vasilyevich Pensioner
        Vasilyevich Pensioner 12 December 2022 08: 19
        0
        Well, if you have a problem with this, then this is your problem. This will not help you.
    2. Stas157
      Stas157 12 December 2022 08: 38
      +4
      Quote: Vasilyevich Pensioner
      This is where the author screwed up. I personally saw several reports of military correspondents in which the fighters reported about the ease of distinguishing between our and Ukrainian drones.

      It was about the mavic. And how does the Ukrainian mavic differ from ours? Is he not Chinese?
      1. Vasilyevich Pensioner
        Vasilyevich Pensioner 12 December 2022 08: 50
        -5
        The question is in the wrong place, address it to our fighters.
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 12 December 2022 11: 18
      +6
      Quote: Vasilyevich Pensioner
      This is where the author screwed up. I personally saw several reports of military correspondents, in which the fighters reported on the ease of distinguishing between our and Ukrainian drones. After that, all the author's reasoning faded.

      Mwa-ha-ha.

      On the left is the neighbor's "Mavic 3" No. 1, which, as you can see, was hit and jammed by the engine. On the right - neighbor number 2, after the fall. In the center - a trophy vehicle without a control panel, which will be a donor.
      This is exactly what is called "local turnover". Let's go do what.
      © Murz
      But kizlyar knife steamers military correspondents can continue to talk about the difference between our UAVs and non-ours.
      1. Vasilyevich Pensioner
        Vasilyevich Pensioner 12 December 2022 11: 27
        0
        Mwa-ha-ha.
        Then address the same to the author:
        and to distinguish self from others still can't.
  18. Mikhail Maslov
    Mikhail Maslov 12 December 2022 08: 01
    +6
    The article is not unambiguous. A lot of correct criticism. As for the counter-battery fight, you don’t need to prove anything, look at Donetsk. The Armed Forces of Ukraine have a very strong argument, the Foliage data exchange system. effectively conduct counter-art combat, Donetsk. Yes, they are at home, yes they work with minimal time from detection to strike and use the same "altered" Ukrainian "Foliage", they use UAVs of different classes and constantly study the actions of the enemy. As for the "Chimera" ", not long ago I saw the consequences of the impact, the accuracy is 95-98%.
  19. Epaulettes
    Epaulettes 12 December 2022 08: 27
    +1
    After reading the article, only one question comes to mind: "Why did all this start at all then?"
    1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
      Sergey Aleksandrovich 12 December 2022 09: 38
      +2
      It was necessary to wait and repeat the 1941st?
      1. Epaulettes
        Epaulettes 12 December 2022 09: 51
        +6
        And why doesn't everything go to him anyway? The only difference is that our professional army suffered significant losses not even in the war, but in ... NWO.

        And why, if someone was going to attack us, did they start building defense lines in the Russian regions bordering Ukraine ONLY NOW??? What did those who are responsible for the defense of the country expect before? Repeat 41st? Well, we almost waited.
    2. zenion
      zenion 13 December 2022 01: 48
      0
      Shoulder straps. So they thought to take a show off. On TV, they showed this, what the tigers did for themselves out of fear. It turned out all bullshit and small splashes. Oleg would have listened... No, they won't beat the shield in Kievgrad.
  20. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 12 December 2022 08: 36
    -5
    Skomorokhov, maybe stop whining? No matter what article you scribble at the end of the year on all topics, then whining, whining, whining, everything is gone and so on, you probably already have a sea spilled in your office.
    1. Sergey250455
      Sergey250455 12 December 2022 08: 59
      -1
      You may be banned from the author. After all, he is the whole saint and the halo above him burns, but only here on the site.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  21. Blue fox
    Blue fox 12 December 2022 08: 48
    +2
    In general, I agree with the article, although I was somewhat surprised that the author does not identify
    And the officers, tired of the madness of command, continue to write letters of resignation. And they are being replaced by basically untrained guys from civilian universities. And they, yesterday's graduates, must replace in the ranks those who have been trained for more than one year.
    с
    Rave. No less nonsense, like replacing mobilized contract soldiers who have problems with their conscience and wallet at the same time. Who, in principle, were prepared to fight, but it turned out that they did not want to fight for the same money as they were offered. The market... Military services? It looks like it.
    .
  22. Vlad2012
    Vlad2012 12 December 2022 09: 04
    +8
    The resource of the barrel "Pions" and "Malka" is about 1500 shots. And a meager loading speed.
    All Russian artillery is inferior to the western one in range. Approximately 5 km conventional and 10 active-reactive, in the case of Msta. Because our answer to the "Joint Ballistic Memorandum of Understanding" in the form of a Coalition is in a quantity of 8 pieces. Shells of an improved form are already being fired by the Serbs and the Bulgarians, but not by Russia. And in general, what are we talking about if there are already rifle battalions.
  23. Boniface
    Boniface 12 December 2022 09: 24
    -1
    But everyone has the same pain - a maximum of two weeks of hard daily work - and the microcircuits burn like candles. There is simply no reliability, mainly due to the use of microcircuits not of the “we need” type, but of the “set what they gave” type.


    on you God, what is worthless to us! recourse
  24. Wedmak
    Wedmak 12 December 2022 09: 34
    -3
    Is it okay that all the high-precision and smart weapons of Ukraine were transferred to them by the United States and NATO? So what kind of army are we fighting - Ukrainian or already NATO-vskoy? And if we take this thesis into account, the article does not look so unambiguously bad for us, as the author paints.
    Moreover, I am not at all against novelties in our artillery, and I would very much like to saturate the army with them quickly and not expensively. But what is, that is, well, at least little by little, the situation began to improve. Including the supply of strike drones, which may occupy a rather large niche of high-precision projectiles in the future.
    1. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 12 December 2022 09: 46
      +6
      So what kind of army are we fighting - Ukrainian or already NATO-vskoy?

      Ukrainian. Which is supported by NATO.
      1. Woodman
        Woodman 12 December 2022 10: 27
        -1
        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
        Ukrainian. Which

        I would rephrase your phrase: Ukrainian. In which only infantry (meat) remained from the "Ukrainian", and the Poles are increasingly replacing that.
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 12 December 2022 10: 47
          +3
          For complacency, such an interpretation may help.
          Dear administration, if you do not see the point in a short comment, this does not mean that it is not there.
          1. Woodman
            Woodman 12 December 2022 10: 49
            -1
            Quote: Nefarious skeptic
            For complacency

            Ukrainians?
            Quote: Nefarious skeptic
            just because you don't see the point in a short comment doesn't mean it's not there.

            Brevity is the soul of wit...
            1. Dismas
              Dismas 13 December 2022 10: 37
              +2
              True, not every sister has a brother :).
              1. Woodman
                Woodman 13 December 2022 10: 44
                +1
                Quote: Dismas
                True, not every sister has a brother :).

                It's the first time I've heard it, but I'll remember it for sure! hi
      2. Sergey VTC
        Sergey VTC 12 December 2022 18: 07
        0
        Quote: A vile skeptic
        So what kind of army are we fighting - Ukrainian or already NATO-vskoy?

        Ukrainian. Which is supported by NATO.

        Supports or still arms?
    2. Al manah
      Al manah 12 December 2022 10: 54
      0
      Are we keeping an army only to fight the Papuans?
  25. S. Viktorovich
    S. Viktorovich 12 December 2022 09: 37
    0
    The backwardness in terms of reconnaissance, target designation, communications and control systems applies not only to artillery, but also to the army as a whole. For the last 20 years, work has been carried out in these areas (ESU TK, for example). I would like to understand why there are no significant results?
  26. Jonny_Su
    Jonny_Su 12 December 2022 09: 46
    -1
    Why did I, reading articles by Kirill Ryabov on VO, think that everything was fine?
    But seriously, the armed forces are corrupted by information secrecy. This makes it possible to sell bullshit to the people about the percentage of modern weapons, and to the Supreme - hunting and parades. There is no independent audit, independent media have been dispersed, hence it may be possible. The order to comrade majors to press and not let go only exacerbates the situation.

    The only good news is that there are Artbloknots, the conversion of Maviks and Lir for digital intelligence and communications. It is necessary to officially allow them to be used and issued as regular weapons. Then there might be a point.

    I also do not understand the role of the General Staff. Does he now have an official staff of observers?
    1. Barberry25
      Barberry25 12 December 2022 11: 04
      +2
      because one author writes that everything is fine, and another writes that everything is bad .. it is called the division of labor. Another thing is more interesting .. if everything is bad with artillery, then how does it turn out that the enemy has not yet defeated us with a multiple numerical superiority?
      1. Jonny_Su
        Jonny_Su 12 December 2022 12: 07
        +3
        It is, of course, a division, but R. Skomorokhov is the editor-in-chief of the portal. K. Ryabov, it seems, should obey him. And Roman's denunciations against the backdrop of positive Cyril do not sound so pretentious.
        And "the enemy has not yet defeated" - so the campaign has not yet ended. The saturation of the enemy with weapons of the 90s has not yet come.
        1. Barberry25
          Barberry25 12 December 2022 12: 23
          +4
          so our situation is changing in the right direction. I think that everything is simple - if you write in only one key, then part of the audience will simply go to other sites
  27. designer
    designer 12 December 2022 09: 54
    +3
    "mainly due to the use of microcircuits not according to the "we need", but according to the type "we put what they gave." - Electronics burns not due to the fact that "we put what they gave", but percent. by 80, because of the crooked developer.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 12 December 2022 11: 23
      +4
      Quote from designer
      - Electronics burns not due to the fact that "we put what they gave", but percent. by 80, because of the crooked developer.

      There, according to the mind, the TK should be looked at - what time of continuous operation, in what cycle and under what conditions the Customer asked. And then it will immediately be clear who is to blame - the Contractor with non-compliance with the requirements of the TOR or the Customer with the TOR that does not correspond to the actual conditions of use.
      1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
        Sergey Aleksandrovich 12 December 2022 11: 42
        +2
        Normal equipment is manufactured with the expectation of a 20-year service life with round-the-clock operation, using eternal components. We will consider military equipment as normal!
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 12 December 2022 11: 58
          +5
          Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
          Normal equipment is manufactured with the expectation of a 20-year service life with round-the-clock operation, using eternal components.

          Yeah ... and then the same admirals do not understand: But what, ships also need to be repaired during their service life? What, even with the observance of deadlines? No, that's some bullshit... laughing

          In our country, almost the entire theory of the operation of our control cabin (the interaction of blocks with each other and the operation of block elements) was essentially subordinated to the fact that in any situation we could accurately and quickly find a failed block and a node in a block. For there was no hope for eternity and continuity at all.
          1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
            Sergey Aleksandrovich 12 December 2022 12: 19
            +4
            How does this cancel the curvature in the development of equipment? I met and continue to meet in domestic equipment both incorrect air exchange, and connectors designed for less current and even burning resistors, which, in principle, should not be.
            Well, at least in military equipment there were no electrolytic capacitors, only tantalum ones I saw.
            1. didra
              didra 13 December 2022 02: 20
              +2
              Tantalum capacitors are electrolytic.
    2. Sergey Aleksandrovich
      Sergey Aleksandrovich 12 December 2022 11: 25
      +3
      It happens because of microcircuits too. Microcircuits in plastic packages, depending on the material, are 2 or up to 10 times less reliable than microcircuits in a ceramic package.
      But in general, I support, the main thing is the curvature of the hardware developer.
  28. Osiris
    Osiris 12 December 2022 10: 34
    +1
    I strongly disagree with the author regarding the effectiveness of our artillery! It is she who brings us success in the NMD in Ukraine, we just did not prepare for operations of such a scale and the leadership of the RF Ministry of Defense for many years did not pay due attention to the development of artillery and related types of military equipment, as a result, when "thunder struck" all the problems immediately emerged. The leadership of the RF Ministry of Defense was too carried away by parades and developments
    weapons on unconventional principles ... But it always happens, so there is something to work on!
    1. cold wind
      cold wind 12 December 2022 10: 52
      0
      Success brought us a sudden blow and betrayal of the Ukrainian military and civilian authorities in the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions.
      There are no further successes.
      I do not consider the capture of the Severodonetsk-Lisichansk agglomeration a success, there were too big losses. After them, we lost offensive potential. Bakhmut as a marker.
      So the success was in the first 3 days and the artillery had absolutely nothing to do with it.
      1. Vasilyevich Pensioner
        Vasilyevich Pensioner 12 December 2022 11: 03
        +5
        Or maybe the success can be explained by the fact that the Armed Forces of Ukraine intended to start fighting only on the line of contact, and even more so, they did not expect the deployment of the RF Armed Forces in other places. It was assumed that we, at the beginning of their offensive, would support the republics in the opposite direction.
    2. Konnick
      Konnick 12 December 2022 14: 23
      0
      It is she who brings us success in the NWO in Ukraine

      Not artillery should bring success, but aviation. Artillery for positional warfare, aviation for modern warfare.
      1. Yaroslav Tekkel
        Yaroslav Tekkel 12 December 2022 22: 00
        0
        Quote: Osiris
        I strongly disagree with the author regarding the effectiveness of our artillery! It is she who brings us success in the NWO in Ukraine


        What are these successes? Escape from the Kharkov region and leaving Kherson? The Ukrainians themselves assess themselves sensibly: they are still alive only at the expense of artillery and ATGMs.
  29. Shamil88
    Shamil88 12 December 2022 11: 02
    +2
    The best and most effective counter-battery system is aviation, these are strike and reconnaissance UAVs that can circle in the sky for days, and there we also have full ... pa, the same outposts, what prevents them from releasing hundreds? The feeling that it is profitable for someone to delay this CBO, and the longer it goes on, the more gesheft for certain people
    1. Barberry25
      Barberry25 12 December 2022 12: 47
      +1
      Well, for this option, this is a bunch of reconnaissance UAVs + kamikaze drones. Now they also started working out with the inclusion of a repeater ...
    2. Dmitry Rigov
      Dmitry Rigov 21 December 2022 12: 41
      -1
      The situation there is sad, we don’t have our own piston engines, and they may promise to replace imports in a few years. Here is last year's interview with the director of the Central Institute of Aviation Motors.
      "It's sad that they don't exist (piston engines - ed.), but I'm sure that in five years there will be standard domestic piston engines of various capacities - 50" horses ", 80, 150, 200, 500, on the basis of which you can build drones in the interests of the Ministry of Defense," he said.

      https://ria.ru/20210205/dron-1596104487.html
  30. Barberry25
    Barberry25 12 December 2022 11: 02
    -2
    half of the photo with the "lunar landscape" is off topic ... especially consider that this is the zone of the defenders when they repel the enemy's advance.
  31. Barberry25
    Barberry25 12 December 2022 11: 10
    -6
    The novel is epic as always ... just squirrels are just remembered .. but in fact a simple question .... Maybe it’s worth talking not with the son of a friend who graduated today, but with those who are at the front? And yes, offhand .. from which since the UAV should be betrayed to the gunners? It is primarily surrendered to the assault units and reconnaissance officers who identify targets and transmit the coordinates to the gunners, after which they correct them ... The gunners don’t need UAVs for nothing ... this is the same as giving them to the driver of a supply truck. ..he doesn't need it.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 12 December 2022 11: 28
      +3
      Quote: Barberry25
      And yes, offhand .. since when should the UAV be betrayed to the artillerymen? It is primarily surrendered to assault units and reconnaissance officers who identify targets and transmit coordinates to the artillerymen, after which they correct them ...

      That is, the assault units should also be able to adjust? belay
      Or, nevertheless, specialists who carry out target detection (or additional reconnaissance according to data from infantry like "somewhere to the left of that tree over there"), their classification for subsequent distribution by means of destruction (do not hammer the dugout with 82-mm mines, and the position of the machine gun - 152-mm shells), the issuance of target coordinates to artillerymen and the subsequent adjustment of fire, should be related to artillery - how are artillery spotters?
      1. Barberry25
        Barberry25 12 December 2022 11: 46
        -3
        ideally, every officer should be able to do this .. in fact, the principle is simple - detecting the enemy, obtaining coordinates, transferring to the headquarters or to the attached battery - they defeat .. If through the headquarters, then they determine the outfit of forces and means and transfer it already to them. .Previously, spotters required special equipment, now it’s easier with this .. I’ll reveal a terrible secret, even if there is a spotter in the detachment, he either transmits the coordinates to the battery or to the headquarters .. he himself does not determine the number of shells and the number of barrels ..
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 12 December 2022 15: 22
          +3
          Quote: Barberry25
          ideally, every officer should be able to do this .. in fact, the principle is simple - detecting the enemy, obtaining coordinates

          But there are none, coordinates. Because the UAV with the issuance of target coordinates is the minimum "Orlan-30", brigade-division level.
          And the field commander there is only Mavik, hold on to him. That is, in the original - a visual picture from the drone, which you need at best to compare with the map in the tablet, poke in an approximate place and send the coordinates. And in the worst case, do the same with the map and give out the coordinates by voice.
          And all this - without looking up from the command of the battle. EMNIP, Murz wrote that even at the level of a company-battalion, one cannot shift the functions of a spotter to the commander.
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 12 December 2022 16: 16
            0
            1) Orlan-10 can take coordinates, Orlan-30 can highlight targets for Krasnopol .. these are different things, other UAVs can also take coordinates ... According to Mavik, given its range and the presence of OfflineMaps, determining the coordinates of the target is not very difficult .Next, Murz said, but come on in fact ... here is the opornik, the enemy decided to attack him .. and the PAN is not at hand ... well, he’s not there and that’s it .. and what’s next? crying that someone somewhere wrote that Shouldn’t an officer before a battalion be able to adjust artillery in his sector? No need to replace concepts - an officer should be able to give out coordinates for a strike. Otherwise, the question arises of the competence of such an officer, since a warrant officer or even an experienced sergeant..

            Or do you think it should look like this. such a square?
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 12 December 2022 17: 36
              +3
              Quote: Barberry25
              Orlan-10 can take coordinates

              Their. EMNIP, he doesn’t have an LCD - and he won’t give out the azimuth-range to the target. "Ten" is a purely specific reconnaissance.
              But the "thirty" can give out data for calculating the coordinates of the target, and highlight it.
              Quote: Barberry25
              Or do you think it should look like this .. the company is advancing .. it detects the positions of the enemy .. after which the company commander begins to hysterically demand that a spotter be sent to him so that he indicates the coordinates of the enemy for artillery?

              The artillery spotter must be in the company from the very beginning of the offensive. Or what, battalion mortars will again have to be along the lines (i.e. somewhere on the map, hoping for statistics) beat - like in that war?
              Of course, I understand that the interaction of military branches is a sore subject, and that each of the branches is trying to pull the blanket over itself. But maybe it’s already worth starting to work out interaction, and not to fence Muir and Merilize from the OShS, dragging everything that can be taken away from others into units?
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 12 December 2022 17: 56
                -2
                well, suppose Orlan-30 is better suited .. but let's do it in fact .. I understand correctly in your opinion that our officers are very stupid and cannot read the coordinates from the tablet? And do you need a whole separate officer who will do this? Of course, if you need a separate fighter with a compass to turn your head with screams and where are the landmarks ... then of course, but in the same NM LDNR, officers have long studied offlinemaps. By the way, the same question comes out, our troops should be without the UAVs that they need, but so that the artillerymen would have them when they didn’t stick to them at all?
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 13 December 2022 10: 19
                  +1
                  Quote: Barberry25
                  I understand correctly, in your opinion, our officers are very stupid and cannot read the coordinates from the tablet?

                  Unit commanders fly by themselves, correct artillery as best they can, and, in parallel, control the battle themselves. And, in a good way, it should be three different people in the control group, like in our battalion. The UAV operator, who is only concerned with ensuring that the quadric flies off and returns correctly, the artillery officer who stands behind him and, looking at the image, gives corrections or immediately corrections to the sight of his colleagues to the radio, and the battalion commander or his a deputy who gives orders on his radio - who should run where and who should shoot where. That is, he directs the battle and thinks only about directing the battle, and not about the fact that right now it would be necessary to pull the car a little back from the target, see if the dill climbed out of shelters, shoot at the copter. This is what the normal operation of a spotting copter in combat looks like. And yes, in addition to it, "minks", DJI Mavic 2 Mini, are often additionally used in the same battle, raised by infantry officers in the interests of "look into the nearest dill trench" for the infantry). Of course, it is possible to force the operator to study the work of an artillery spotter in all the subtleties or, even cooler, to grow two full-fledged additional skills from the unit commander - a spotter and an UAV operator. But, in the event of such a universal specialist dropping out for some reason, you lose two or three functions at once, therefore it is much more efficient, if specialists have free time, to teach separate additional people - separately commanders, separately artillery spotters and separately UAV operators. Because, not even talking about combat losses, people want to go to the ridges, they want at least short, but still vacations, and, finally, they can be promoted or transferred to other units. And due to the absence of one person, a universal specialist, the productivity of the entire unit will sag sharply. What for?
                  © Murz
                  1. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 13 December 2022 14: 27
                    -2
                    and he himself notes "ideally" .. and the situation is such that the same UAV operator can see the target and inform the commander, and he will transmit data about the need to strike ... and a simple question .. well, we don’t have a beautiful gunner in each unit .. and what's next? it turns out to collect all the UAVs and burn them because the officer doesn’t want to figure out how to give coordinates to the target? does not prohibit studying and learning ... because it is unexpected, but it is useful ... and NECESSARY. There is a difference between how ideally and how NECESSARY. And I think that Murz will agree that officers should learn to give out coordinates ... no need to pervert idealism ...

                    And I remember the same Murs at one time was indignant that the officers did not want to learn how to work in communications ...
            2. stankow
              stankow 14 December 2022 00: 40
              +1
              Barberry25 And why shout, why send a spotter. The gunners have excellent optics and also drones, an extensive network of NPs and command posts, they see everything, even better than an infantry commander. Since the NP artillery stands at a height, and the infantry is barely peeping over the parapet. Let him say near which landmark the goal that hinders him came to life. And in a minute it will fall silent, or even completely dematerialized. When the infantry went on the attack, the artillery had no other tasks, any orders were accepted. And the gunners know their stuff.
              1. ada
                ada 14 December 2022 04: 48
                0
                Quote: stankow
                ... And why shout, ...
                Duc, it happens in different ways, sometimes you need to complete the task, but it doesn’t work out without support, sometimes you want to live, and sometimes it doesn’t make sense anymore, that’s why they “shout into the radio head”: “Get out here ...! Come on, a couple more“ cucumbers "," Past ....! Where, ...th?!", well, etc.
                Here it is necessary to understand that the "gunner" and "aircraft controller" in the units (now, probably, the "shooter" in the air defense calculation "), these are not full-time positions, but the persons occupying them, should be appointed by a legal act of the unit commander to perform additional duties on temporary positions as part of some consolidated formations (military transport, column, group, detachment, etc.) and permanently in full-time units with the right to conduct reconnaissance and maintain artillery fire, target designation of aviation, air defense and bear the appropriate responsibility.Also, orders organize their training in the appropriate profile and equipping with technical means (weapons).All this is done in pursuance of the directive instructions of the senior commander.In fact, this is a necessity in view of the ever-increasing complexity of the situation and in order to comprehensively ensure the various actions of the troops (forces), when the capabilities of the regular forces of the RV&A attached to advanced air controllers (air defense units) becomes i'm not enough.
                The simplest example. Here, an urgent convoy for supplying ammunition to ensure the resource of the units of the unit by the transport forces of transporting the unit itself (in isolation from its troops, in a poorly controlled territory, etc.), in addition to direct security, along the route will be covered by the forces of the battery on duty with the appointment of planned targets along the route and if all control vehicles are in position, then an aircraft controller and an artillery spotter (air defense calculation) will be assigned to the administration of military transport, communications and communications and control organization documents will be allocated (R / st, TS, call signs, route details, a blank map with assigned targets , dangerous areas, threatened directions, etc.). And by the way - it happened like that, or rather - almost like that (cut off half of the sturgeon) wassat
                Well, or another example. We went to storm something in a difficult area, somewhere in a building, a forest, in the mountains on different slopes, smoke and fog, finally you can’t see each other, attached artillery commanders, artillery reconnaissance specialists from MU, PRP, there won’t be enough for all T Groups or detachments and there, to help the combined arms commander, trained persons are appointed, they work in the same network according to a single plan with common landmarks, lines, etc., but they are closer to targets in different directions and can work independently in the SBU. In any case, the task of targets is set by the combined arms commander of his own or attached artillery, and the decisions on "shelling" are made by the firing artillery commander (s) and the more carefully the fire system is planned and the preparation of the S&UO is carried out, the more rational the distribution of forces and means of control, means of destruction, than the more optimal their reserve and contingencies are here only to help, the better subordinates are trained in management, including contingencies, the less he will have to interfere with the planned work of artillery and the more opportunities for maneuvering forces and fire.
                And something tells me that this is a long tradition, and not a product of locales. Simply, this should be closely engaged - there will be a result.
                In addition, "additional" signalmen, chemists, sappers, orderlies, cooks, drivers, mechanics, etc. are always required, including firing sergeants. yes .
                1. stankow
                  stankow 14 December 2022 23: 25
                  +1
                  Well, you’re right, but why enroll spotters on the staff of the infantry!? In the evening, the battalion commander gives an order, the commissar of the control platoon selects people, agrees on landmarks, signals, frequencies, in the morning the spotter follows the shadow of the company and, if anything, knows his business, speak on the radio with his own, in the same language.
                  1. ada
                    ada 15 December 2022 03: 23
                    0
                    Quote: stankow
                    ... but why enroll spotters on the staff of the infantry!? ...

                    You are right that correctors from artillery units are the best solution, but there is always a but. Here, by the evening, there is no longer a part of the firing and VU, vehicles and vehicles of reconnaissance and communications, the infantry is battered, but the tasks remain.
                    In principle, every combined-arms commander, starting with the KV, is trained in the conduct of combined-arms combat and must be ready to interact with attached forces and artillery in particular. About "shooting sergeants" (in the art. sense) - this is from practice laughing it happened like that. But here, I want to note that in a difficult environment under extreme circumstances - it works, if under control and in the system, well, or as a last chance.
                    1. stankow
                      stankow 15 December 2022 12: 39
                      +1
                      Well I do not know. The sergeant, under bullets, has no time to introduce corrections, chat on the radio. He usually carries a special magazine with tracers. Everything, not 1:3. And when on the way of his squad / platoon there is a well-entrenched machine gun, which cannot be taken otherwise, he fires bursts in his direction. From the NP artillery they see everything, no explanations are needed. Measures will be taken ... Transferring fire from the previous target is the most accurate way, even zeroing is not needed. Such are usually laid out during the battle. Cursing over communication lines is, of course, picturesque, but not so efficient and fast :)
                      1. ada
                        ada 16 December 2022 10: 10
                        0
                        That's right, but again there is a "but". Much depends on the organization of the SBU (combat command and control system), the tasks to be solved, the way the database is maintained, the composition of the group, the staffing and security of the SVCh, their condition, the conditions of the situation, and military-political realities.
                        Target designation on the ground with tracer ammunition is not always effective, sometimes it is only possible for "air", and the artillery NP is simply not organized, artillery units operate in small numbers and in isolation from the CNP and NP network of artillery directly, in fact using only "correctors" in combat formations with control through combined arms launchers, CBU.
                      2. stankow
                        stankow 16 December 2022 10: 36
                        0
                        Yes, especially in the NVO in the ranks of the militia - it is clear that everything is organized in a very truncated form. By the number of troops, means, structures. So the output of articles about the alleged "poverty" of all artillery, especially the personnel units of the RF Armed Forces, is pure propaganda.
              2. Barberry25
                Barberry25 14 December 2022 08: 30
                -2
                it is especially interesting about "they stand at a height" when it comes to a territory that is flat as a board .. you confuse warm and soft - it's one thing when a height is taken up and an NP is deployed there for the specific purpose of preventing the enemy from using the route to supply troops, and another thing when there is an opnik standing or when the settlement is being stormed. And here it is important that the artillery is corrected by an officer who knows where his troops are, and not an officer from a UAV 20 km away, who will not be able to distinguish where his own and where others are, of course. it should always be, the difference is that if everything was in the IDEAL SVO it ended back in March. Therefore, the officer must be able to not only read maps, but also be able to use offline maps and having a picture from a UAV to give out coordinates for artillery .. it turns out sometimes necessary .. There was recently a photo from the field headquarters of the battalion - officers crowded around three tablets and determine where their own, where the enemies are, what coordinates to give out ... I'm not saying that the officer should do this himself personally, buthe must be able to, if necessary, train and coordinate
                1. stankow
                  stankow 14 December 2022 23: 51
                  0
                  ## "stand on top" when it comes to plank-flat territory..
                  There are no such territories, there are always points a little higher. But even if you put a tripod right on the ground, the horizon line will be as much as 3 km. Enough.

                  ##confusing warm and soft
                  Well, where can I... wink

                  ##NP with the specific purpose of preventing the enemy from using the track
                  Appointment of NP in artillery - observation, reconnaissance and fire control

                  ##when the opnik is standing or when the settlement is being stormed.
                  NP doesn't care. Only when the battlefield was observed

                  ##And here it is important that an officer who knows where his troops
                  In the evening, the combined-arms commander personally pointed out to him, pushed him with his finger, and showed him on the ground. And he wrote off to his card

                  ##an officer with a UAV 20 km away
                  The UAV operator only approximately knows the location of his own. He only leads the drone.

                  ##who will not be able to distinguish where his own, and where strangers
                  You need a special skill - to compare the map and the picture from the drone

                  ## IDEALLY, there should always be a correction
                  There is always a spotter, but not one. On the NP of the battery, on the NP of the division, on the associated NP, in the ranks of the supported unit.


                  #if everything was
                  There was and is

                  #in IDEAL SVO ended in March
                  Arta works very well on CBO. But the infantry is not enough. Everyone wants to work on a tablet, not climb in the mud :(

                  ## an officer must be able to not only read maps, but also be able to use offline maps
                  Zdak miracle unseen wink

                  #having a picture from a UAV to give out coordinates for artillery
                  This is a task for a photogrammetrist. There is such a profession and position. To the division's headquarters.

                  ##officers crowded around three tablets and determine where their own, where the enemies are, what coordinates to give out
                  Their business, whose else? Nobody else will do better.

                  ##I'm not saying that the officer should do this personally, but he should be able to train and coordinate if necessary
                  Positions and responsibilities in the battery and division are clearly defined and not so complicated. Only people know little about them.
                  1. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 15 December 2022 09: 46
                    -2
                    how many beautiful words they wrote .. the only difference is that, as I already indicated: this is an ideal and how it SHOULD be .. but the reality is different ... so there is no need to treat .. not at a party meeting
                    1. stankow
                      stankow 15 December 2022 12: 12
                      0
                      None of these are ideal. And the only way to shoot at least somehow. You don't judge on television. They only show the militias there. And in the regular units - according to the charter, otherwise it is impossible. Plus minus amendments to the war.
                      1. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 15 December 2022 13: 06
                        -2
                        the charter is good, of course, only in reality it boils down to the fact that they determine an officer on the support who can give out coordinates and appoint him a "spotter", and in some cases he is not there, since the direction is considered unimportant and it turns out that just there the enemy begins to crush. .that's when the ability to give out coordinates will come in handy, just like officers are not required to be able to set up communications, but it is sooo desirable to be able to.
                      2. stankow
                        stankow 15 December 2022 22: 57
                        -1
                        Well, I don't know that. What is this officer, in what position? What are the other responsibilities? Is he a rifleman? When he clarifies with NP arti orienti what devices he uses? Commands the shooting or only reports the deviation of the bursts. How it happens, pls write.
                      3. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 16 December 2022 15: 47
                        -2
                        but as they usually report) they detect the enemy with the help of a drone, having offline maps in their hands, determine their coordinates and transmit them with a note about the number of the enemy ..
                      4. stankow
                        stankow 17 December 2022 00: 47
                        0
                        Yeah, erzats militia artillery. wink
                      5. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 17 December 2022 21: 20
                        -2
                        you won’t believe it, but the artillery of the RF Armed Forces also works in exactly the same way .. and when new units arrive and begin to arrange dances with a compass, trying to determine themselves by landmarks in positions, they are assembled and taught how to work with offline maps .. yes, you can giggle and build from yourself as super-cool gunners, but progress has not gone away. but you can continue to arrange dances with a snail
                      6. stankow
                        stankow 18 December 2022 02: 43
                        -1
                        And what's wrong with Google? Cards, but not paper ones. Yes, not in that coordinate. system, but with offsets, but without magnetic declination, without landmarks, without conventional signs, character. bridges and scaffolding, without verticals. Just pictures from 100 years ago with hotels and gas stations. 1/10 of the topographic maps, and also a map of 1/100 of what is needed for the artillery to shoot.
                      7. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 18 December 2022 12: 52
                        -2
                        1) not google, but offline maps, these are different things, by the way, fire, scammer)
                        2) it’s immediately obvious that you, in principle, haven’t seen them in the eyes and write frank nonsense .. in general, go to the sofa and think further nonsense, just don’t write to me, I don’t want to degrade
                      8. stankow
                        stankow 18 December 2022 13: 35
                        -1
                        Whether you like it or not, you've already made it. I wanted to shoot on Google maps ... Have you even seen a Topomap? Did you prepare the shooting data? Did you carry out instrumental reconnaissance? Did you do photogramming? Did they shoot? OP tied? Well, then explain to me, a computer engineer and captain of the artillery reserve, how everything is done! laughing
                      9. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 18 December 2022 17: 11
                        -3
                        hmm .. I don’t see the point in continuing the conversation with a stupid person who can’t even read the comment in full ....
                      10. stankow
                        stankow 18 December 2022 17: 48
                        0
                        I see you were on the courses of good education. But all the places were taken laughing
                      11. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 15 December 2022 13: 32
                        -1
                        for understanding .. according to the charter, our battalion must hold a front of 5 km and a depth of 2,5 km and be supported by its minbat, but in reality, our battalion can hold a 10 km front without any depth due to the small number of troops ... According to the charter, our fighters should only have Esmarch harnesses and no turnstiles, also according to the charter, not to mention the fact that no platoon support should have an operator with a commercial quadrocopter ... this is also about the charter
      2. strannik1985
        strannik1985 13 December 2022 17: 19
        +3
        Or is it specialists who detect targets

        Our artillerymen control the fire, if a motorized rifle battalion is assigned an artillery division, then they deploy at least 4 KNP (1 KD and 3 KB), but they deploy a full-time group that ensures the operation of the platoon's observation post (2 people with a rangefinder-goniometer and r / st ) is highly desirable. They will not be able to fully control the fire, but they will be completely involved in adjusting the fire of the AGS, mortars and attached artillery. To learn this complex action, children's blocks, binoculars and a fishing rod with a fishing line with a dyed foam rubber explosion simulator are enough. It is necessary to teach how to determine a gap occurred behind the target (overshoot), in front (undershoot) and the angular deviation from the center of the target along the grid of the observation device. The received data on the group of gaps and at least approximate coordinates for a sane gunner is enough.
        1. stankow
          stankow 14 December 2022 00: 51
          +1
          strannik1985 Looks like you are a sophisticated person in these matters, glad to read you! And it just pisses me off how many monstrous delusions there are about arti. And this article confirms them even more :(
        2. ada
          ada 14 December 2022 05: 41
          0
          Quote: strannik1985
          ... Children's cubes, binoculars and a fishing rod with a fishing line with an explosion simulator made of colored foam rubber are enough to teach this complex action. ...
          And smoke ischo laughing
          Yes, if there is an opportunity to fiddle with your fingers on the tablet, then that's good too. I think that sooner or later, but they will build a personal tablet device with a manually receptive, non-energy-intensive and resistant screen with software in conjunction with communication facilities, receiving and transmitting information of automated control systems, and what else is there? automation of speaker guidance, instrument control, etc. Maybe there will be voice input. Finally, he would have to make a U-turn with the elements of a notebook and bring binoculars to him.
          On the screen with a map (hybrid) backing, because information about the situation is well perceived and structurally deposited in the head.
          1. stankow
            stankow 15 December 2022 00: 12
            0
            Such devices darkness. The question of a separate article is how they are used and why not only they are used. And why always will И paper cards, wired telephones and compasses.
            1. ada
              ada 15 December 2022 03: 39
              0
              In my case, there was only the last one you indicated, well, "Sachek" and the civilian engineering calculator "Citizen" laughing drinks
              1. stankow
                stankow 15 December 2022 12: 25
                0
                What was the card? And where and how did you write the numbers on the calculator? How was the weather data received? How did you build the correction charts? How were the teams recorded? Or were you only engaged in topography, mentioned somewhere in another post, it seems? In general, I'm talking about the organization and automation of the entire CP division, maybe my questions are not for you.
                1. ada
                  ada 16 December 2022 11: 00
                  +1
                  Duc, on the battery "fifty dollars" paper and "dozens" city plans (finally a separate topic), a notebook and pencil pens. "Meteo" local - "gun", control - depending on the tasks, the main one - through the CBU of the brigade and from the control unit of the division, when from the PU TGr or OGR (v), without automation laughing
                  Yes, these questions are not for me - this is a business trip with an ordinary KV to a normal receiver artillery unit (CR), a regular one for me - PT, there was a completely different structure, weapons and a place in the construction of the defense system, it has long been gone - they considered it not in line with the spirit of the times yes .
                  1. stankow
                    stankow 16 December 2022 12: 36
                    0
                    Thank you! Only one question - what kind of years?
                    1. ada
                      ada 16 December 2022 15: 24
                      0
                      This is the 90s, then the HF PTRez died, probably half, and by 2009, already completely - Khan.
                      1. stankow
                        stankow 17 December 2022 00: 48
                        0
                        Yeah, the very bad years :(
                        ...............
    2. stankow
      stankow 14 December 2022 00: 25
      +1
      Identification of the target, calculation of coordinates, adjustment of shooting is the main task of artillery units. There are control platoons, eating AIR - artillery. instrumental intelligence, etc.
  32. usm5
    usm5 12 December 2022 12: 00
    +3
    The author, in my opinion, allowed himself a significant distortion of reality. Attaching photographs of fields with shell craters, he interprets their appearance as allegedly inaccurate artillery fire. Although this is simply the result of the repeated defeat of the enemy, who tried to advance along the indicated fields. And in general, everything the author writes about seems to be true, but only on the one hand. And the author ignores the other truth. Let me give you an example with the painful topic of the shelling of Donbass. Such nomadic volley fire installations cannot be hit by a classic counter-battery fight, because at the moment when the shells were still in the air, the installation withdrew from its positions and drove off into cover. Such mobile means of destruction must be handled by strike drones, which must be over enemy positions around the clock and hit everything that moves. So far, these drones are frankly not enough, but their production is on the rise. It makes no sense to analyze the entire article further in the text, since there is only one leitmotif - the Armed Forces of Ukraine are great, and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are backward and backward. Yes, we do not have an ideal army, but the enemy has no less problems in the army. And the winner is the one who copes with his problems faster. Let's see who will win. What does the author want to achieve with such an article during the war? Surely the panic of inexperienced citizens of Russia.
    Problems in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and professional methods of dealing with them should be written to the analytical center of the RF Ministry of Defense, and if they did not respond, hang out "dirty linen" for everyone to see. And as the author does, this is the position of the enemy, whose goal is to defeat the psyche of Russian citizens. And I want to ask the editorial board: "Gentlemen, where are you looking? Who are you really working for?"
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. gromovanton
      gromovanton 12 December 2022 16: 42
      +2
      Dear George! You write "the author, in my opinion, allowed himself a significant distortion of reality. Attaching photographs of fields with craters from shell explosions, he interprets their appearance as allegedly inaccurate artillery fire."
      - if in the same pictures there is no affected equipment, an affected stronghold - then how do you think they should be interpreted differently?

      About nomadic installations of MLRS and shelling of Donbass. The author did not propose to fight with cannon artillery against MLRS. In general, counter-battery combat is a private problem, and the general lack of reconnaissance equipment in the required quality and quantity (both drones and counter-battery radars, air and satellite reconnaissance, mobile reconnaissance points, etc.), communications and the lack of a data integration system on the battlefield, when everything sees, what one sees and it happens automatically. Plus a minimum of bureaucracy (time from detection to defeat).

      According to your thesis "On problems in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and professional methods of dealing with them, one should write to the analytical center of the RF Ministry of Defense, and if they did not respond, hang out" dirty linen "for everyone to see. And as the author does, this is the position of the enemy, the purpose of which is the defeat of the psyche of the citizens of Russia. "
      1. To tell the truth to fellow citizens is, in your opinion, to be an enemy of the people and hang out dirty laundry. Do I understand your idea correctly?
      2. In your opinion, the author revealed an official, suddenly state secret about the state of our artillery, or it is obvious that everything stated is not only taken from completely open sources, but is also confirmed even by our officials and about the bombing of Donbass and photographs from the front line with lunar landscapes and D -1 from the front? It is obvious that the author did not disclose anything secret, official, even in theory.
      3. About letters to think tanks and after hanging out dirty laundry, if they don’t respond as I like.
      Did I understand you correctly that you know the addresses of such analytical centers in the RF Ministry of Defense? - share with the community - everyone will be very interested to know.
      The problems raised by the author are understandable - this does not mean that this is a ready-made technical task with a feasibility study that early everything that can and cannot be rushed to be performed by our military and civilian authorities. And here is something to think about. However, the author is trying to actually formulate the problems and posing the problem is already half the solution. But let me remind you that we have these governing bodies and they had to think about it and solve these issues, and this is a reason to think.

      Regarding the reaction - I don't know how much you wrote to various state bodies - I had a lot. Maximum achievement thanked for helpful suggestions and thoughts. For the rest, they considered and found absolutely correct reasons why they should not do this with an impeccable citation of the legislation. However, there is a more important question about advice. First of all, who do you give advice to? Well, do you suppose that in our country, for the highest government positions, in the army, navy, general staff, various Central Research Institutes, the military, upon announcement, recruits everyone in a row? Well, you're just making some kind of political statements. This is absolutely not true. And we advise them ... People then for at least 20 years after they became candidates of science have worked in senior management positions, huge teams work, and they have advice here from their places ...
      And on the third side of the civil. All these highly esteemed ones, to whom, due to servile stupidity, we can have the audacity to give advice and forgive the Almighty to think of giving comments in their works for our common good, well, they don’t exist by themselves, but they swore allegiance to this people for support from the people. So you don’t need to write questions and write proposals, but ask the prosecutor, the Cheka from each such benefactor how it happened that he was provided with everything from trousers to personal drivers, and the homeland has a bare ass and someone will die today because of this ....
      But the country needs to build a system of interaction between the army and industry and enterprising engineers and researchers. If you have any suggestions, business connections - I will read the article with interest and I am ready to give advice to the best of my ability, both free of charge and at an hourly rate within the framework of R & D, OKR ...
      1. usm5
        usm5 12 December 2022 18: 57
        +4
        You, dear author, for what purpose do you want to tell the people the truth? Are you sure that the material you present is true? The truth is one and no one knows it, but there are many truths and everyone has their own. If you have facts of criminal negligence or impenetrable stupidity of officials, write directly to the Minister of Defense or the Supreme Commander. You, apparently, are a knowledgeable person, and if you took up an analytical article, then suggest how to eliminate the inconsistencies that have arisen. For example, I wrote that for long-range detection and destruction of low-flying targets, it is necessary to place special radars on airships near the line of contact. I was told that this issue is being worked out and that the subject is classified. What should I write about the venality of our generals after such an answer? The army of Ukraine is not more modern just because its human losses are many times greater than in the Russian army. This is a fact that you can’t argue with. And the negatives that you are trying to reveal are the superiority of the NATO countries, whose military budget is a multiple of that of Russia. Here we are now training in Ukraine before the big war. Perhaps such training is the only chance for our people to survive in the next test. After all, we all believed or felt subconsciously that the collapse of the Warsaw Pact and the USSR is our sacrifice in the name of saving human civilization from thermonuclear war. And it was true. But it turned out that we just delayed it for several decades. Therefore, the form of the presentation of the truth must also be appropriate. After all, when you come home hungry, you can tell your wife: “Well, you are a “washcloth”, why didn’t you cook breakfast for me !?”. And you can say: "Beloved, I'm very hungry, cook me breakfast!" Notice in both cases you will tell your wife the truth.
        1. Yaroslav Tekkel
          Yaroslav Tekkel 12 December 2022 21: 47
          0
          Quote from usm5
          If you have facts of criminal negligence or impenetrable stupidity of officials, write directly to the Minister of Defense or the Supreme Commander.


          At one time (when I was much more naive) I wrote to the Moscow Region. About camouflage. He wrote that what they did was not camouflage, but just a green rag with a fashionable pattern. He cited links, studies, even photos sent comparisons of a suit of a suit hand-painted according to my method and their "camouflage" against the background of bushes, grass and other things. You know, they didn't even send me a formal reply. And how many died later because of the non-camouflage of our camouflage?
          1. usm5
            usm5 12 December 2022 23: 01
            0
            Here in your case, people can tell the truth. Namely: when they wrote, to whom they wrote, and how many people died as a result of bungling. Write an article, name names, I'm with you in this. th corrupt officials must be exposed.
        2. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 13 December 2022 10: 20
          0
          Off topic. The vast majority of us have wives who also work, often arriving later than their husbands from work or leaving earlier. Sometimes you can cook breakfast yourself. Moreover, most often our halves make preparations for several days. It is enough to warm up or fry.
    3. Mustached Kok
      Mustached Kok 12 December 2022 23: 16
      +1
      Although this is simply the result of the repeated defeat of the enemy, who tried to advance along the indicated fields

      This particular statement is incorrect. The photo clearly shows that most of the funnels are fresh and look exactly the same. Which suggests that these consequences of shelling are within the framework of one fire suppression operation. If these were funnels from a long, suppression of the enemy over a long period of time, then this would be visible in the form of the presence of DIFFERENT funnels. Dark, neat, clean - fresh. And overgrown, with jagged edges from the layers of new funnels, half-filled, possibly flooded and gray - old.
      And the photos are all equally fresh. So it was one shelling. Maximum 2-3 shelling but with a small interval between them.
    4. Shark Lover
      Shark Lover 13 December 2022 06: 50
      +1
      And I want to ask the editorial board: "Gentlemen, where are you looking? Who are you really working for?

      To a bank account. Work for the one who replenishes it (bank account)
    5. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 13 December 2022 10: 15
      +1
      So Skomorokhov is part of the editorial board, and an important one.
  33. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 12 December 2022 13: 45
    +4
    I would really like to ask the author how the "chimers" can fight the "malka"? Not to mention a direct hit on the installation, which is very unlikely. How much time does the "chimers" need to advance to the launch site and calculate for a salvo, and how much time does the "small" battery need to fire two salvos and move to another place? "Himmers" can work effectively on a large and motionless, well, or slightly mobile target - a bridge, a warehouse or a headquarters, well, if idiots serve in it, then you don't feel sorry for them. In general, all these sects (St. Javelin, St. Bayraktar, St. Chimers, now ZRK) are already fed up. There is no perfect weapon, for every poison there is an antidote. Even old weapons can be effective if they are properly exploited to their strengths. And even the newest - "firewood", if the crews have clumsy little hands.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 12 December 2022 19: 13
      +1
      Quote: TermNachTER
      In general, all these sects (St. Javelin, St. Bayraktar, St. Chimers, now ZRK) are already fed up.
      Well, a person needs to whine.
    2. Yaroslav Tekkel
      Yaroslav Tekkel 12 December 2022 21: 23
      +1
      Quote: TermNachTER
      I would really like to ask the author how the "chimers" can fight the "malka"? Not to mention a direct hit on the installation, which is very unlikely. How much time does the "chimers" need to advance to the launch site and calculate for a salvo, and how much time does the "small" battery need to fire two salvos and move to another place?


      Fighting "Malka" is hard. On the notorious Oryx, only six Malok / Peonies have been declared for all the time. One was captured, the barrel of one was torn, two were blown up for unknown reasons (one together with the Ural), one was hit by an unknown type of precision weapon (perhaps a BONUS), but the very first of the lost ones just suggested itself. She did not shoot two volleys from one place, but two hundred. APU helpfully took a photo from above "before" and "after". , she stood in position for a month, it seems. Around her, heaps of heaps from boxes of ammunition had time to put up. When it finally arrived, these boxes were scattered all over the collective farm field.
  34. hermit
    hermit 12 December 2022 14: 09
    0
    It does not happen that when two armies of approximately equal strength collide, one of them has an advantage in all types of weapons. If the enemy has superiority in artillery, which is important in positional warfare, then a maneuver war must be imposed on him. I'll never know: why do you need to storm the villages near Donetsk for months? Or is this a distraction, and the main blow will be dealt elsewhere? Or is someone in the Kremlin waiting and ready to wait another eight years until the West and Ukraine come to their senses and accept his terms? There are no answers to these questions.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 13 December 2022 10: 30
      +1
      I have a feeling that they are being stormed for months, because in most cases hundreds, and sometimes even dozens of fighters, participate in the storming of such villages.
      1. stankow
        stankow 14 December 2022 00: 57
        +1
        Yes, not every day. And not all the time of the operation.
  35. Igorash
    Igorash 12 December 2022 14: 12
    +1
    Krasnopol, according to eyewitness officers, is ideal only in ideal conditions with a 70-80% chance of hitting .. In a real battle ... zilch ... no more than 50%. And you won’t be able to see much, because the money is in the West .. and it doesn’t matter in what category .. after all, they can’t find 200 billion .. apparently for this reason, the IMF employee Nabiullina was in no hurry to return them to their homeland .. Yes, and the gold somehow imperceptibly dissolved .. despite the unrest, a number of deputies of the State Duma ..... Yes, and they didn’t acquire technology under Putin .... so .. assembly from ready-made components .. one visibility .. Apparently, not only Merkel is the only smart one ... And they destroyed what was and did not create what was needed. .that's something like this ... The time for a radical cleansing is coming ...
    1. Sergey VTC
      Sergey VTC 12 December 2022 18: 26
      +2
      money in the west? ZVR mean? Well, the West cannot find Russia's gold reserves, although it has announced its "freezing". And then the money - bye.
    2. stankow
      stankow 14 December 2022 00: 59
      +1
      50% hit chance is pretty good. Copperhead has no more either.
  36. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 12 December 2022 14: 16
    0
    War is the engine of progress. But Russia in peacetime does not want to progress.
    With artillery, there were plugs in the Crimean War, then in the Arab-Israeli wars, then somewhere else.
    Then they chased. All trends were known for 10-20 years. Counter-battery radars could be riveted from imported schemes. Accumulate and rivet in the 2000s and 2010s.
    1. Yaroslav Tekkel
      Yaroslav Tekkel 12 December 2022 21: 07
      -1
      Making counter-battery radars is a very difficult task even for the manufacturers of these very imported schemes. Americans, French (in cooperation with various Europeans) and Jews know how to do it normally (and not a zoo). Perhaps the Chinese.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 12 December 2022 21: 25
        0
        If approached theoretically, then the backlog should be in the country. Need to do this.
        1. Yaroslav Tekkel
          Yaroslav Tekkel 12 December 2022 22: 31
          +1
          There are no groundwork in this direction in the country. So back in 1945, the Americans discovered that their radars see German mortar mines, and suggested that the starting point could be determined from part of the trajectory. But even in the 80s, it was not possible to achieve better accuracy than the good old sound intelligence. All developed systems showed "somewhere there". So the Soviet backlog will not give anything.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 12 December 2022 22: 39
            -1
            How do air defense systems shoot down MLRS missiles? It often happens in our country that there are competencies in different departments, but one is for aviation, and the other is only for armored vehicles. The situation is similar with night vision devices.
          2. stankow
            stankow 14 December 2022 01: 02
            +1
            We add that the good old sound intelligence for its part does not even come close to the accuracy of the even older and kinder optical intelligence ....
      2. Comet
        Comet 13 December 2022 00: 35
        0
        Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
        Making counter-battery radars is a very difficult task even for the manufacturers of these very imported schemes.

        And what is the very difficult task of making counter-battery radars? What is their complexity compared to air defense / missile defense radars?
  37. svan26
    svan26 12 December 2022 14: 33
    +7
    Quote from usm5
    And I want to ask the editorial board: "Gentlemen, where are you looking? Who are you really working for?"

    Department "Armament"
    Head of Department: Roman Skomorokhov
    So they are the board. And look at the lunar landscape.
  38. George K-219
    George K-219 12 December 2022 14: 47
    +2
    So, is it possible for an officer to demarche with a report of dismissal during an undeclared war, though. What is this army then?
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 13 December 2022 10: 33
      0
      At the beginning of the SVO it was still possible, now it is not.
  39. Negro
    Negro 12 December 2022 14: 56
    +4
    )))
    the second is the level of the 1990 Gulf War

    I have two news for Roman, good and bad.

    Good - APU is still extremely far from the level of Desert Storm.

    The bad news is that the APU is still very far from the level of Desert Storm.
  40. The comment was deleted.
    1. Yaroslav Tekkel
      Yaroslav Tekkel 12 December 2022 21: 01
      -2
      Do you prefer authors from the series "special operation goes according to plan, ahead of schedule"?
  41. Vic Vic
    Vic Vic 12 December 2022 16: 40
    -6
    "... are there any violations of the secrecy regime (smartphones and tablets), and so on. That is, according to the longest list called "army insanity."
    Those. the author believes that the presence of smartions among the fighters is correct, normal and does not unmask the personnel.
    And the requirement to remove siartphones is insanity. So what?
    In my opinion, the article mixed up a bunch of horses, people ...
    1. Vic Vic
      Vic Vic 12 December 2022 21: 16
      +1
      It would be very interesting to read the comments of the downvoters on the essence of the question asked.
      1. Alexey Z
        Alexey Z 13 December 2022 18: 02
        0
        [quote] [/ quote] Don't read the article carefully?
        1. Vic Vic
          Vic Vic 13 December 2022 21: 43
          0
          Having read your question-suggestion to read the article carefully, I followed your rhetorical advice. I read it again carefully, but I still didn’t understand why the example given in Sue with checking the lack of smartphones among the fighters, as unmasking elements, was classified as insanity. Everything that was published earlier, everything we know, suggests that the presence of a smartphone at the front is evil, allowing you to track the location and movement of a fighter and his unit.
          The author, without any specifics, indiscriminately, without reference to any specific situation, called such a check insanity. Why did it happen?
          Can you explain?
          1. Alexey Z
            Alexey Z 14 December 2022 16: 40
            0
            For example, the article states:
            “Happiness is to become the owner of an ordinary tablet into which you can put programs for calculations. And there are two more options, if the commanders are sane, then any tablet that is normal in terms of characteristics will do.

            If the commanders "do not shine" - parents knock down their legs in search of tablets without SIM cards. But they find it, fortunately." As an option.
            1. Vic Vic
              Vic Vic 14 December 2022 17: 19
              0
              There should not be any communicators with SIM cards at the front, except if a SIM card is needed to complete a combat mission.
              An enemy arrival at the signal of a SIM card activated in the technique is equally destructive, regardless of the fact that the siartphone / tablet is used for selfies or thanks to this technique, ballistics calculations are carried out with the STM card.
              In any case, even if for some such an approach would be insanity, then for others, it would be saving lives.
              The question is very controversial and does not deserve to be included in the section of senile ..
              1. Alexey Z
                Alexey Z 14 December 2022 18: 17
                0
                Last paragraph. I have a tablet on which SIM is not provided at all. Only what you need is downloaded in advance via WiFi.
                1. Vic Vic
                  Vic Vic 14 December 2022 19: 17
                  0
                  I mean, no sim.
                  Once again, my main idea is that in general the question of the expediency of the presence / absence of mobile electronic devices not specifically designed for use at the front is completely incorrectly listed in the article as insanity.
                  This is a completely ambiguous question caused by the lack of special time tablets.
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 12 December 2022 21: 27
      0
      There are schemes for using devices on the network. Even barmaley in Syria used them. Offline maps and some settlement programs (they could already be read by Nokia smartphones on Sambian)
  42. The comment was deleted.
  43. Vladimir Dmitrievich Burtsev
    Vladimir Dmitrievich Burtsev 12 December 2022 17: 30
    +1
    It’s a pity that they didn’t teach the guy to write short and capaciously. A lot of valuable, but a lot of unnecessary garbage in the article! I propose to rewrite and shorten the article and be sure to give constructive suggestions. And then he poured out his soul to the people, and there are very few specific proposals, if not to say that there are almost none. Everywhere is full of problems! You don't need to ask any special questions! Let's solve these problems! It would be nice to compile a list of questions and ask on this site the leaders of the defense industry, such as Chemezov, to tell us the ignorant about the plans of the defense industry to solve the identified problems.
  44. wladimirjankov
    wladimirjankov 12 December 2022 18: 39
    +3
    I agree with the author. The landscapes of the fields taken by the drone impartially show in all its glory the results of the work of our artillery. At first, it was not clear to the SVO why, with such an advantage in the number of cannon artillery, mortars and MLRS, we could not crush the Nazi artillery, break their positions and throw them away from Donetsk at a distance of inaccessibility of their fire. It was thought that the people's militia of the DPR lacked modern means of conducting counter-battery combat, the skills and abilities of the commanders and personnel. Here the Russian cadre army will come to their aid and the situation will radically change for the better. But this did not happen. As we stood under Avdiivka, we still stand after 10 months of the NWO, just as the Nazis killed the inhabitants of Donetsk, they continue to kill them. Complete helplessness and impotence is evident. Isn't it time to finally finish with this crazy firing on areas and directions, to shoot into the white world like a pretty penny. There was no use for this, and the Bandera people were not afraid of this and did not run away. One useless waste of shells and barrel resource. The command should abandon this practice, apply new approaches and tactics, require the military-industrial complex and the country's leadership to supply the necessary modern equipment and modernize existing equipment, and train personnel to professionally work with it. And in cases of termination of contracts of military personnel and their refusal to participate in hostilities. This is outrageous, unacceptable and must be stopped immediately. Otherwise, we will not defeat anyone and fall apart from anarchy as a country. To prevent this from happening, martial law must be introduced in our border regions with Ukraine and martial law on its territory. Mobilize the army and rear to fight the enemy.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 13 December 2022 10: 36
      0
      Now the contract cannot be broken at will. Only by age, illness and in connection with imprisonment by court order.
  45. vvn_vl
    vvn_vl 12 December 2022 18: 48
    -1
    and so in all areas ... there are concepts - a customer and a developer, but who in the Ministry of Defense can set a specific task for the development of equipment ?? only those numerous military managers whose task is to master the money ... maybe it's time to return the professionals to the Ministry of Defense?
  46. Eug
    Eug 12 December 2022 19: 02
    +1
    I can only say that when the counter-battery of the ZSU "nailed" various batteries around our village, it was an impression that one battery was "working" from the side of Ukraine and at the same time almost constantly hit, because it always smoked after shelling decently. Grada, and MSTA-B, and Hyacinths "worked" against it, of course, none of the population could know the results, but the location of 4 KAMAZ vehicles with specific ZSU antennas was calculated in half a day.
    1. Yaroslav Tekkel
      Yaroslav Tekkel 12 December 2022 20: 55
      +1
      They no longer work only with single batteries, but also with single guns.
  47. Dart2027
    Dart2027 12 December 2022 19: 11
    -1
    Once again I guessed the author.
    I'm just wondering - if everything is so bad, then why is the Armed Forces of Ukraine not in Moscow, or at least not on the outskirts?
  48. Vyacheslav Borichevsky
    Vyacheslav Borichevsky 12 December 2022 19: 21
    +5
    Finally a true article! Yes, our army really has very big problems! And it looks like we were stuffed with the usual lies about an army staffed with 70% new ?. or modernized old technology!. No exploration! One more nuance! And where are the vaunted GPS jammers!. After all, the missiles go on a signal!. And they hit for sure! But ours are silent that the counter-battery fire from the APU is effective !. And superiority in adjustable ammunition!. Recently I saw a video of how they hit our msta-b with an excalibur !. And there was a video about equipment in the Crimea in the sump where our damaged equipment was clearly visible, and there were msta-s and disabled hyacinths !. This year’s ammunition is also already at the front, which proves that our warehouses are already empty and obviously the shells from the DPRK may not be fake! Moreover, the calibers in the DPRK are the same as ours! Everything that was shown about our army and its digitalization turned out to be a trite lie! And all this smells like the usual cut of the defense budget! After all, they still haven’t asked where are the 1.5 million sets of ammunition? No one has been punished for this! Why until now our aviation, which bombed targets in Syria so well, only works at the forefront, and even then from low altitudes !. Where are the strategic breakthroughs? We have only tactical successes!. It's a shame!. And also fight with NATO?. Where there are a large number of chimars!. More and more it seems to me that we will knock out the DNR and become !. And further negotiations will follow! About any liberation of Ukraine, there is no longer and will not be a question!. There is only one fact, the Russian army is a myth and a deception, or rather a good PR campaign!. Our army is not capable of anything!.
    1. odisey3000
      odisey3000 12 December 2022 19: 51
      +3
      It’s strange, but you didn’t accidentally see the destroyed Ukrainian, I beg your pardon, NATO equipment, there is also a lot of it burned down in the fields and villages. In a war, as in a war. commanders.
      1. Mustached Kok
        Mustached Kok 12 December 2022 22: 56
        +1
        A huge number of problems in our army are problems identified even ... in the Chechen wars. At the same time, when there was a conflict with Georgia in 2008, some of these problems surfaced again, but then not only was a full modernization program announced. They also announced that some of the problems (for example, the acquisition of old walkie-talkies with "boxes") are actually not a problem, because supposedly the re-equipment process is already underway, it's just that by the beginning of the August conflict, the new sets did not reach the Southern Military District. And now, 2022 has come. And we see that many parts are still sitting on old radios.

        If before that they had been saying for many years that “well, based on the experience of the last conflict, we saw the weaknesses of the army, now we’ll fix it, give us money and time,” but nothing changed at the end.
        So where is the reason to assume that now it will be different?

        And of course, Vyacheslav has his "where are the vaunted GPS jammers?" there is also an error in understanding the principles of operation, that there are still inertial guidance systems. But the general question is "where are all the weapons, equipment and technologies that you have been telling us about for the last 15 years?" I absolutely agree with many of those who are dissatisfied with the situation.
    2. Yaroslav Tekkel
      Yaroslav Tekkel 12 December 2022 20: 53
      +3
      And where are the vaunted GPS jammers!. After all, the rockets go on a signal!


      It's a delusion. The missiles follow the signal as long as there is a signal, but they have a redundant inertial guidance / navigation system with ring laser gyroscopes. It turns on when the GPS signal is lost and by itself gives very good accuracy even over tens of kilometers, and if the GPS is turned off at the final section, when a couple of kilometers are left to fly, then the difference in accuracy will generally be small. This is without considering the question of whether the signal is jammed in the final section in reality.
  49. Kirill Valkovsky
    Kirill Valkovsky 12 December 2022 19: 37
    +3
    You have to be on the lookout, people. CIPSO does not sleep.
  50. zampolit
    zampolit 12 December 2022 19: 44
    +2
    Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
    Well, at least in military equipment there were no electrolytic capacitors, only tantalum ones I saw.

    Tantalum, they are the most electrolytic oxide capacitors.