The German company Rheinmetall presented 5 new products for self-propelled artillery

Rheinmetall from Germany made a presentation of five key new developments for equipping army field artillery. The interest of the Greek armed forces in them is understandable, since now Athens is more than ever interested in increasing the power and combat effectiveness of its army against the backdrop of a growing deterioration in relations with neighboring Turkey. The novelties of the German company are described by the Defense Review edition.

The first development presented by the German company is the new improved 155-mm Assegai ammunition, which is designed to increase the firing range of the PzH-2000GR self-propelled artillery mount (ACS). With this ammunition, self-propelled guns will be able to attack targets at a distance of 63 kilometers.

The second important development is new projectiles with SMArt-ER (Extended Range) submunitions, which are designed to destroy armored targets moving at low speed. They will be available for artillery batteries armed with the same PzH-2000GR, as well as M-109.

The third development is a new type of ammunition SMArt-ER (Extended Range), which further increases the firing range to 38 kilometers (from 27 kilometers).

The fourth development is the new L60 barrel, which can be installed on the PzH-2000GR self-propelled guns. Such a barrel provides an even greater range of guns - 70 kilometers or more. However, such barrels have a drawback - they can make it difficult to maneuver self-propelled guns on narrow city streets.

Finally, the fifth development is a package of modernization transformations for the M-109 self-propelled howitzer. This gun can be fitted with the new L52 52 caliber barrel, which increases the firing range. Rheinmetall pays special attention to testing the M-109 chassis in terms of strength and load in order to have an idea of ​​​​what further solutions can be proposed in order to increase the firing range and rate of fire of the gun.

Recall that the ground forces are still the basis of the combat power of the Greek armed forces. The Greek ground forces are currently armed with 418 M-109 self-propelled howitzers of various modifications of American production and 24 German PzH 2000 self-propelled howitzers. Greek artillery also has 36 US-made M270 MLRS MLRS and 109 RM-70 MLRS (Czech version of BM-21 " city").

Comments

[tralflot1832]

Also no more than 100 shots a day, and then to the "overpass".

[cold wind]

Why more? 1 shot 1 target, 10 targets per day still need to be found.

[strannik1985]

Those. The self-propelled guns are not capable of carrying out art. attack support and escort

[cold wind]

Quote: strannik1985

Those. The self-propelled guns are not capable of carrying out art. attack support and escort

Why?

[strannik1985]

1. Usually a large number of single targets are collected into group ones, i.e. in a platoon stronghold, a certain number of trenches for armored combat vehicles, dugouts, slots, firing points, trenches, etc. Hitting all this WTO is very expensive. Fashion has gone from the Americans, but they are going to fight overseas, i.e. logistics problems come to the fore, over which ocean will the Bundeswehr or the Greek army fight?
There are a lot of tools that increase the accuracy and combat stability of artillery when firing conventional shells, but they do not have such popularity and advertising.
2. A fire mission can be performed not only in terms of accuracy, but also in terms of time. While shells are exploding at the position of a strong point, the brave guys with Javelins and other Milans sit in holes and do not shine, and their own infantry can relatively calmly approach a distance of 400-500 meters to the enemy’s trenches.

[cold wind]

Those. are you going to storm with infantry fortified positions saturated with enemy infantry and anti-tank weapons? Are you generally normal?

[strannik1985]

Are you generally normal?

And what did combat robots appear in the RF Armed Forces?

[cold wind]

Quote: strannik1985

And what did combat robots appear in the RF Armed Forces?

And what about the RF Armed Forces? The fact that our troops are engaged in inadequate tasks - I agree. To storm in advance engineered positions saturated with enemy troops in advance will only occur to the local commentators and the generals of the RF Armed Forces.

[strannik1985]

To storm in advance engineering prepared positions saturated with enemy troops,

Why exactly on the forehead? And by whom, except for the infantry?

[cold wind]

Because you described just such a problem above. Her very staging is absurd. Because such points do not need to be attacked, they are either bypassed and surrounded or destroyed by artillery and aviation forces. Pinpoint strikes against suitable supplies, reserves and positions.
A self-propelled gun battery from one position, in a modern war, an equivalent enemy can fire 3-4 shots, no more. This is just 3-4 position changes per day. Those. 9-16 shots per barrel per day maximum. On a battery (6 self-propelled guns) 54-96 shells per day. Accordingly, high-precision artillery systems are needed to perform real tasks, and not to destroy our infantry against enemy defenses.

[strannik1985]

Because such items

Which? This is the most common field defense, the work of the first stage (single trenches and for infantry fighting vehicles / armored personnel carriers) is completed in 6 hours with the involvement of 70% (6 people) of the squad. A trench for shooting while lying with a small shovel in 32 minutes under enemy fire.

ACS battery from one position

Modern self-propelled guns can fire in the short fire raid - movement - short fire raid mode ... firing no more than a dozen shells from one firing position. Modern, including 2S19M2, 2S35.
Towed guns can be equipped with ASUNO and self-locking kits, which allows you to place guns by gun, not batteries.

Because such items

Do you have enough troops to block everyone?

[Negro]

Quote from cold wind

A self-propelled gun battery from one position, in a modern war, an equivalent enemy can fire 3-4 shots, no more. This is just 3-4 position changes per day. Those. 9-16 shots per barrel per day maximum

You overstate. The same Archer releases the entire ammunition load in 2 minutes with a penny. As far as I remember, in the realities of the 80s, it was believed that there are no more than 15 minutes of work, 10 is better. But even 5 minutes every hour is enough for very large expenses.

[cold wind]

If necessary, of course, they can shoot in this mode (if you set the coordinates of the targets in advance and there are such principles, you don’t feel sorry for the shells, etc.), but the cycle of reconnaissance-setting coordinates-shot-control of the result-clarification of coordinates-shot - takes time. With well-established interaction between reconnaissance and artillery, this is 3-4 shots in 10-15 minutes. Shots ~20 per battery. In modern reality, it’s just not possible to find so many targets, unless of course there is a desire to shoot at the “squares”.

[Negro]

Quote from cold wind

but the cycle reconnaissance-setting coordinates-shot-control of the result-refinement of coordinates-shot - takes time.

Not this way. Reconnaissance gives the geographic coordinates of the target - there is intense fire on the coordinates within a minute. If the drone hangs and gives an online adjustment - the second volley. Maximum third. And that's it, it's time to dump.
If we see at the “military corporals” a gun littered with shell casings in human height, this means that there is simply no enemy in this area.

[State]

There are neutron weapons, and use them.

[solar]

own infantry can relatively calmly approach a distance of 400-500 meters to enemy trenches

Suicides or Berserkers? What is the QUO of ordinary shells, even if it aims perfectly? And what is the probability of imperfect aiming?
For this, the Americans came up with a fuse that does not work if the projectile deviates a certain distance from the aiming point, so that it is guaranteed not to hit your own.

[strannik1985]

Suicides or Berserkers?

The line of safe removal for infantry on foot is 400 meters, but this value is discrete. Now it is possible to put an electronic mark on each projectile / charge (like on a fur coat), which, before firing, will give the ASUNO a real weight deviation from the table, and not a weight sign (+ to accuracy). Non-contact charge temperature meters instead of a battery thermometer, ballistic wind radar, 3D bore wear meters, etc., but they advertise WTO that can give orders of magnitude more income, because they are disposable.

[28st region]

Do you have any idea what 100 rounds a day is for a gun? The barrel will overheat with the letter zyu, it will wrap up, the barrel resource will be exhausted within a week. Do you think we are different? All the same. 40 shots per day is almost the maximum.
So small data for a tank gun is less than 1000 rounds, for 152 mm guns from 3000 to 3500, 203 mm about 1000 rounds. This is on our trunks. At your rate of fire, the gun will fall apart in a couple of weeks.

[strannik1985]

http://otvaga2004.ru/boyevoe-primenenie/boyevoye-primeneniye02/artillery-afganistan/
Afghanistan, consumption from 200 to 600 shells per target per gun, total number of shells fired up to 7000.
Maybe you are confusing shooting at maximum charge?

[28st region]

I read the article. Where did you find what

Quote: strannik1985

consumption from 200 to 600 shells per target per gun, total shot up to 7000 shells.

So-so article. There is a listing of artillery weapons used in Afghanistan.
And then what does it mean from 200 to 600 shells per target. is this the designated expense for hitting a difficult target by a division? I can't find any other explanation.

Quote: strannik1985

total shot up to 7000 shells.

What is this about?

[strannik1985]

And then what does it mean from 200 to 600 shells per target.

That means the consumption of one gun per target, the method is the consistent concentration of fire.

What is this about?

The total shot of the gun.
https://paul-atrydes.livejournal.com/248565.html

[nobody75]

The main disadvantage of correctable art. shells - high overloads in the bore when fired. Not all electronics can withstand them, as well as drives, and optics ..... Therefore, loitering ammunition appeared. They are the future!
Sincerely

[State]

How many g overload? In anti-aircraft gun shells, the electronic fuse withstands 400 g, all modern cumulative shells have an electric fuse and do not break.

[nobody75]

Corrected projectiles, in addition to the fuse, also need drives, in the case of aerodynamic control ... And the control electronics are needed more seriously than the fuse ...
Sincerely

[Godzila]

Quote: tralflot1832

Also no more than 100 shots a day, and then to the "overpass".

Well, yes .. In Ukraine they will feel the smell ..

[cold wind]

Of course. Germany transfers to Ukraine, super new RCH-155. Ideal self-propelled guns. The characteristics are better than the PzH 2000, but the tower is completely autonomous, the crew in the cockpit or in another vehicle in general, can be placed on different tracked and wheeled platforms. With her, these shells will go.

[Negro]

Quote from cold wind

Germany transfers to Ukraine, super new RCH-155. Ideal self-propelled guns.

Well, as I understand it, not soon. And soon the M109 with a long barrel may appear. The old M109s were pretty shot, just the time to change the barrel.

[cold wind]

It looks like they accelerated the transfer of these self-propelled guns, there was news about this yesterday. And at the expense of external funds.
Earlier there was information that Ukraine was buying these self-propelled guns with delivery in 25. But something has changed. Ukraine's allies have started a race to see who can supply more and better weapons.

[Negro]

Quote from cold wind

Ukraine's allies have started a race to see who can supply more and better weapons.

I'll believe when I see it. So far I see only trolling. When, for example, Joe, who has several full-fledged tank armies, including aviation, scattered across the deserts, breeds Scholz into one tank brigade, and then without anything, only tanks.

[cold wind]

Tell me, American, why do people have such nonsense in their heads? One was going to fortify the areas with infantry to storm, the other was going to shoot at the squares, and not at the targets, the third’s electronics can’t withstand the projectile when fired ...

[strannik1985]

One got together

Didn't your mom teach you that it's wrong to juggle? It was about the most common field defense
And as for the fortified areas and the battle in urban areas ...
Guess who is doing what in these photos?

[poquello]

Quote from cold wind

Why do people have such nonsense in their heads?

an interesting question, have you tried it on yourself? Well then, a simple situation - a high-precision projectile and armored personnel carriers in motion, and the probability?

Quote from cold wind

1 shot 1 target,

))))

Quote from cold wind

Are you generally normal?

[State]

Our fathers created an arsenal of 5000 tactical charges for such cases. It is necessary to apply and then the fascist will put his own howitzer in his anus.

[zloybond]

With high-quality shooting, the consumption of ammo is less. But here's the question: after all, these new products probably contain our metal????

[State]

Ukrainian 2000 shoots before repair

[Lt. Air Force stock]

At 70 kilometers, you can shoot with adjustable shells, I doubt that it is possible to conduct aimed fire with conventional shells, if only at area targets, but this is useless, there are MLRS for area targets.

[cold wind]

Hmm ... Please tell me, what is an area target?

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote from cold wind

Hmm ... Please tell me, what is an area target?

Hit the square in which the enemy is located. Aiming when you need to hit the pillbox / pillbox.

[cold wind]

Those. there are some people armed only with spears in some kind of “square”, who definitely do not have artillery and radars, can you shoot at them with impunity for a long time?

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote from cold wind

Those. there are some people armed only with spears in some kind of “square”, who definitely do not have artillery and radars, can you shoot at them with impunity for a long time?

We are talking about modern war, not African.

[cold wind]

That is, in modern warfare there are no area targets?

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote from cold wind

That is, in modern warfare there are no area targets?

There are, but for them it is better to use MLRS, if the manpower is a cluster fragmentation warhead, if the equipment is a warhead with self-aiming submunitions.

[digger]

Novelties ... novelties ...... when there is a war, all novelties burn out in the first period ... and then the victory is forged by all the same good old models ... and this is the case everywhere .......

[Alexander Emrys]

Quote: Digger

Novelties ... novelties ...... when there is a war, all novelties burn out in the first period ... and then the victory is forged by all the same good old models ... and this is the case everywhere .......

that is, the workhorses of the Second World War were not the newest T-34s at its beginning, but carts?

[svp67]

So they took up artillery ...

[Negro]

This is a response to the new American M1299. They also write 70 kilometers there. The conversion of the M109 to 52 caliber is the same well-known topic, the Italians and the Dutch already had options, EMNIP.

Yes, people are working, in case you didn't know.

[svp67]

Quote: Negro

Yes, people are working, in case you didn't know.

You can work in different ways, that is, with different intensity, and now it is clearly increased

[Negro]

One great geopolitician made a stir.

[svp67]

Quote: Negro

One great geopolitician made a stir.

Somehow I don’t consider “Grandfather” as such, but everyone has their own point of view ...

[Negro]

Quote: svp67

Somehow I don’t consider “Grandfather” as such

Why not? 20 years ago, the United States turned to the Pacific Ocean, NATO turned from a military alliance into a big top, where Poland became the number two military power. Your "Grandfather" was able to breathe new life into this project.

[svp67]

Quote: Negro

Your "Grandfather" was able to breathe new life into this project.

Yes, he is not my "Grandfather", but an American one and he has enough of his unlucky children

[Negro]

Joe? He is not conscious. I'm talking about Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. He did not let the European military-industrial complex with NATO finally die together. And then the German women didn’t leave a stone unturned there, they turned the army into some kind of social security. And not only his own.

It is rarely possible to praise Vladimir Vladimirovich, but where the good fellow is, the good fellow is there.

[Yaroslav Tekkel]

The Koreans have a large-scale modernization of the K55 by 52 (and the K55 to the M109 refers to the Daewoo Nexia to the Opel Kadett).

[Bingo]

The Germans are trying to jump into the outgoing military-industrial complex car. They have prospects specifically for art, in the sense of development, but there are no prospects for production NOW, with the energy crisis and the rise in production costs, at all. Hike, they will also go to the USA

[Negro]

Quote from Bingo

NOW, with the energy crisis and rising production costs

What happened to production?

[Bingo]

Laktrichestvo is expensive, therefore it is cheaper to produce where lyaktrystvo is cheaper. Because BMW-Mercedes and other Baer skis were greased in the USA. And the gunsmiths with their metal consumption ... It’s simply not a question - it’s actually cheaper to take the factory to the USA on ships - it’s still saving

[Negro]

Saving?

Do you understand how much this technique costs? And what share of its cost is electricity?

By the way, the inadequate (relative to neighboring countries) price of electricity in German is about 20 years old. They are still rotting.

[Bingo]

Quote: Negro

Do you understand how much this technique costs? And what share of its cost is electricity?

More than on airplanes! And for example, a Boeing saved on production in Europe - for example, in Italy, leaving a screw-driven SKD assembly in the USA, well, tell me that the proportion of electronics in an airplane is less than in a tank or self-propelled gun?

[AUL]

Incidentally,

This gun can be fitted with the new L52 caliber 52 barrel,

Maybe not caliber, but length?

[Negro]

Quote from Bingo

for example, a Boeing saved on production in Europe - for example, in Italy, leaving a screw-driven SKD assembly in the USA,

And laughter and sin. Along the way, you are not at all in the topic of chains of cooperation - no one in the world makes planes entirely in one country, this is impossible.

[Bingo]

Can you tell me why it was Boeing who decided to move the entire production of the Dreamliner, for example, from the USA? Leaving only the mentioned assembly. So, if YOU are not in the know, it was officially explained by savings in production, moreover, at the level of payment for wrenches, the only ones who remained in the UWB, but the production of "iron", even those same titanium bolts for sections - went to Italy for example. Now tell us how much electronics costs in a Boeing, its share, and next to it - the same for a tank with composite armor and fifty tons of high-quality steel, even without processing, are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive than all electronic stuffing

[Negro]

Quote from Bingo

why did Boeing decide to move all production of the Dreamliner, for example, from the USA?

Nothing complicated.

Boeing has never taken production of the Dreamliner out of the US. Naturally, Boeing uses various contractors in any country for the production of components, including such large ones as a complete wing - it is not under sanctions, unlike. The Airbus A220 is generally a completely Canadian aircraft with American engines.

Quote from Bingo

Now tell me how much electronics cost in a Boeing,

You were not asked how much electronics (by the way, American, like Gardin) cost in a Boeing. You were asked how much euros the electricity costs for the manufacture of self-propelled guns for 5 lyams.

[Bingo]

Quote: Negro

You were asked how much electricity costs in euros for the manufacture of self-propelled guns for 5 lyams.

I explain again: the share of electronics is lower than in aircraft, the production of which was postponed precisely because of the high cost of production in the United States. If you don't know, read for example:
https://afirsov.livejournal.com/450216.html
About Boeing and effective managers from the editor of Aviation and Cosmonautics...
And tie off topic, the conversation was about the fact that production in Europe has become super expensive, because the manufacturers have ALREADY fled, and Rheinmetall will also run away - these are facts about escape and a logical conclusion from the facts.
Stop the "never got over" chit-chat. Boeing effective managers have almost brought to bankruptcy, incl. transfer, which led to the fact that the Dreamliner - no

[Negro]

Quote from Bingo

If you don't know, read

Oh, those experts on the American economy from the Russian LiveJournal. In reality, the Dreamliner was Boeing's last (to date) big success. And yes, it has nothing to do with electricity prices.

Quote from Bingo

Dreamliner - no

There are more than 1000 dreamliners, clown.

Quote from Bingo

from the Aviation and Astronautics Editor...

If this is true, then this is sad news for Russian aviation and cosmonautics. However, Russian aviation and cosmonautics do not care.

Quote from Bingo

the conversation was that production in Europe has become super expensive

This is your thesis, which you could not support with anything and for some reason dragged Boeing. By the way, the industrial policy of some European countries, primarily Germany, and under the influence of Germany, the EU authorities as a whole, is really crazy - but this does not really interfere with the production of tanks. You can compare it with the industrial policy in Russia: it is even more insane, but the tanks are still doing it.

Because tanks are very expensive. The cost of a communal apartment in the price of a tank does not matter. And the tanks do not need to compete with anyone - the budget will buy them for any money, not their own.

[Alien From]

The worst thing is that they will produce and sell it, and not ride it in parades.

[poquello]

Quote: Alien From

The worst thing is that they will produce and sell it, and not ride it in parades.

if you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist

[Eug]

As for me, it makes no sense to separate developments 2-3 (increased range). When this "splendor" appears on the territory of Ukraine (which I personally have no doubts, because the expansion of production always leads to its reduction in price) - a lot of problems will be created for the "allied forces". And the question is what is more expensive - to transport gas to Europe or shells from overseas - I think that all metallurgy will be produced in Turkey on Russian gas with crazy discounts on prices and equipped with control elements there, the qualification of Turkish engineers and workers will be enough, no - they will be delivered from the same Europe. At least in that part of the production that will be not for Greece, but for Ukraine.

[Eug]

Yes, iron ore concentrate will be taken from Arcelor - Mittal Krivoy Rog - through Nikolaev there very close by. Under this case, the "grain deal" will be extended more than once.

[barbiturate]

The network has memories of Dutch artels with PZH2000 in the recent war in Afghanistan, they directly said that it is possible to shoot an unguided projectile further than 20 km, but not effectively. too much spread...
And the Germans are again driving howitzers to Ukraine, when will ours already check the readiness of the Germans to die in nuclear fire for Ukraine? And then they kill for years and thousands of our civilians and soldiers, and everything is fine.

[Nikolaevich I]

The fourth development is the new L60 barrel, which can be installed on the PzH-2000GR self-propelled guns. Such a barrel provides an even greater range of guns - 70 kilometers or more.
Really? Do not lie?

[Fangaro]

The headline is about Rheinmetall, and the text is about the delivery to the Greek Armed Forces. To fight Turkey. Which has its own artillery systems. And their attitude towards the Greek Armed Forces.

[State]

It’s good that ours didn’t meet with the Greek army in Ukraine ...

[cold wind]

This range is possible with an active-rocket projectile.

[Dmitry Smetanin]

Well, Msta-S does not have a maximum range of up to 30 km. Why more than twice?

[Negro]

In fact, there were no such statements in my memory. One clown anonymously reported that the alleged fire control system is designed for a range of up to 70 kilometers (no idea what was meant). At the same time, I did not find a single mention of real firing at such a range at the time.

[Dmitry Smetanin]

70 is written everywhere. Somewhere even 80 km they write. There are no analogues otherwise

[Negro]

Everywhere - is it on the wiki? Unfortunately, in all "sensitive" cases, you need to look for the original source. In the case of 70 (80) km, this is, as usual, the text of the media (in this case, Interfax) from an anonymous source. That is just a star of journalists.

[Sancheas]

new L52 barrel in 52 caliber

The caliber is 155 mm. Barrel length 52 caliber. Would fix it.

[Father of papa carlo]

Is the coastal mobile artillery system A-222 "Bereg" participating in the NWO, or is it not yet?

[Oleg Ogorod]

It was discussed. There would be little sense from him in the NWO. He made for standing on the shore in safety and hitting the tugboats, slowly and straightforwardly approaching the shore. And it is better standing on the raid nearby. One guidance station for several trunks.
In the conditions of the NWO, the guidance station will be instantly covered with bourgeois artillery or a rocket. Range 222 is too short to be safe.

[Father of papa carlo]

uh ... lagged behind life, there the firmware is already completely different! )

[Oleg Ogorod]

Did they change the shells from 130 caliber to 152?

[Bogalex]

In the bottom line after reading the article, we have nothing more than an uncritical review of the commercial offer of a well-known German company to the Greek defense structures to invest in seemingly promising developments that the native Ministry of Defense cautiously refused to finance.