Military Review

Troops that left

62
Troops that left



Who is a hacker?


State Duma deputies, and in particular, a certain Oleg Matveychev, burst out with another effective proposal. Candidate of Philosophical Sciences, Member of the State Duma Commission to Investigate the Interference of Foreign States in the Internal Affairs of Russia. It would seem that the person is not stupid, and the proposal to create “cyber troops” from hackers is certainly put forward not only from the need to propose something to the deputy, but purely out of worries for the Fatherland. But, as always, there is one caveat - who is a hacker?

A hacker in the popular understanding is a bad person who engages in hacking, which is a priori illegal activity and is punishable under article 272 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. The most lenient punishment, if minor damage is caused, will be up to 2 years. If the damage is large or mercenary interest is proven, the period will be up to 4 years. If the consequences of hacking are recognized as serious, or even a threat of their onset is simply created, a punishment of up to 7 years will follow.


Excuse me, who in general, being engaged in under-article cases and being in their right mind, admits this and voluntarily joins some kind of "cyber troops"? With the same success, you can try to recruit window thieves as scouts, arguing this with their physique and natural dexterity.

It turns out that really practicing hackers are criminals who, being not deprived of the mind, are hiding. It is difficult to catch such a real professional, and besides, they prefer to be outside of Russia, since earnings in Europe and the USA are higher. As a result, they are deported to the USA, which means that even a tough hacker cannot be taken from their prison.

What is a programmer?


Who then could the deputy mean by saying "hacker"? Programmer? So this is a very broad concept. For example, there is a 1C programmer who writes code in Russian words in a highly specialized environment, which is mainly inherent in our country. You can’t do without it if you need to organize accounting for goods or accounting, but what does “hacking the Pentagon” have to do with it?


So we need another programmer who works with a language more suitable for hacking something. Well, it is possible, but there is one more nuance.

The word "programmer" in our country is equal in meaning to the word "developer". We say a programmer, but we mean a person who develops a program.
Programs are mostly developed for business and solve applied problems. Can such a developer write code to be able to work with the database? Like a 1C programmer - maybe. Such a specialist knows how to “lift” servers, but he is not required to be able to hack them. Moreover, often it is not even interesting to anyone.

It turns out that "programmers" is too broad a concept, and you need to dig deeper.

"In Russia, there are only 5 thousand specialists in the field of information security, and there should be 20 times more of them",

- spoke at the Eastern Economic Forum Sberbank Deputy Chairman Stanislav Kuznetsov.

Wherein:

“The topic of the departure of IT specialists from Russia has been exaggerated many times”,

- said the deputy head of the Ministry of Digital Development Maxim Parshin.

Oh, and here we immediately have two serious problems surfaced.

Not only are there not enough specialists related to security, but they are also leaving. It turns out only 5 specialists for 000 million people, under the condition of a competitive capitalist market, which is closely monitored by the antimonopoly service. Of course, so that no one abuses a dominant position.

Meanwhile, there are 327 banks in Russia, the number of which decreased by 248 compared to 2017. In addition to them, there are another 48,8 thousand large and medium-sized businesses that, like banks, process personal information and need information security. Besides this, there is 1 backbone enterprises, and these are telecommunications, industry, transportation of goods and people, animal husbandry and so on.

It turns out 5 specialists for at least 000 enterprises, which makes them not just in demand, but a species in the Red Book and in need of state protection. I assume that the businesses that own such employees have been in a hurry for a long time, and such specialists have a “booking”, which means that it will not be possible to call them anywhere.


So who will we call into the cyber army?


Some do not fit, and those who do are too few. It turns out some kind of nonsense. Probably, then you need to recruit people with a related specialty and retrain or retrain! Look, it’s smarter to take and train developers, they don’t have such a shortage.

And then we return to the statement of Maxim Parshin and meet another one:

“The first wave - 50-70 thousand people have already left. The only thing holding back the second wave is that there are expensive tickets, housing has grown, no one is waiting for Russians and there is no financial connectivity, it is impossible to conduct transactions. But there will definitely be a second wave, according to our forecast, from 70 to 100 people will leave in April. These are just IT people,

- сказал RAEC head Sergey Plugotarenko.

In the courtyard of December, by April, approximately 170 IT specialists left the country, and mobilization began on September 000. Of course, no one can yet provide exact final data for 21, but the executive director of the Association of Computer and Information Technology Enterprises (APKIT) Nikolai Komlev, speaking on September 2022 at the RBC conference on the development of Russian software, announced the prospect of losing 27–2 times more specialists compared to spring. It turns out from 3 thousand to 340 thousand people.

And how many are there?


And in total, according to Rosstat, in 2021 we had 1,13 million, and in 2022 there should have been 1,3 million IT specialists. It turns out, lost from a third to a half. Maybe someone will return, but definitely not to join the “cyber army”.


In the process of searching for information, here and there there are quotes from the category “yes, it's okay”, they say, new ones will grow up, students will learn, current newcomers, due to reduced competition, will receive the necessary experience and become seasoned specialists.

Firstly, everything is not so rosy, and business is not interested in course graduates, students without discipline and experience, but business needs specialists who are ready to solve problems without prompting. Fashionable start-ups, which are fully funded by the state, and Skolkovo in particular, in 90% of cases do not solve the problems of a business that sells you products, clothes and services on a daily basis.

What do we have in the dry residue?


Regular jingoistic cries and attempts to force other people to do what they do not want. Attempts to leave at the expense of others, having received a surcharge for an idea or what is supposed to be people's choices. And the most important question, why is it proposed to “recruit” and not “hire”?

IT specialists are a peculiar people, and their earnings have long been the cause of envy, ridicule and sarcasm. How will another whip protect some of the remaining ones from another flight, and why can't we offer a carrot? The answer, most likely, is simple: there is no money for a gingerbread, and forcing is free.

And finally, I consider it necessary to mention the Information Operations Troops of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. This agency was established in 2014 and is subordinate to the Ministry of Defense. The tasks include special operations, management and protection of military networks, the fight against cyberterrorism, and domestic analysts believe that the department is in the top 5 in terms of training along with China, the United States, Great Britain and South Korea.


There is no need to recruit people "from the street", especially civilians, because personnel for such important units are grown and selected from among the military.

Unfortunately, lately it often happens that feelings for the Motherland overshadow the mind, and fantasies are passed off as reality. In this case, this applies not only to "cyber troops", but also to the lack of need for experienced IT specialists who left.
Author:
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  1. KCA
    KCA 12 December 2022 06: 18
    +6
    Well, the author turned on the heat, equated all IT specialists with hackers, the employee repairing the hardware is also an IT specialist, is he a hacker? So he will be able to hack in the truest sense of the word - with an ax to the body, a hacker is a property of the soul, they don’t become one, they are born
  2. antivirus
    antivirus 12 December 2022 06: 25
    +1
    We will achieve goals in Ukraine primarily due to respect for the "carrier" - there is no one to hammer in the grounding pegs.
    Simple actions-simple solutions-simple tasks-correctly-understood Victory.
    for the people, the price of "futures" for grain is worse than the fog of war.
    And ammonia with a positive as well.
    "how many days to climb on the belly in the slurry that is generational"? - that's the main question. the answer will give victory.
  3. Mihail0221
    Mihail0221 12 December 2022 06: 27
    +2
    The author identified the problems. Some of them exaggerated, but does not offer solutions to problems.
    1. RMT
      RMT 12 December 2022 15: 17
      +2
      One option has been suggested. Interested in money without stinting.
      1. Holy Diver
        Holy Diver 12 December 2022 16: 32
        +4
        Not everything is decided by money. A high-class IT specialist will already receive his 200-300 thousand, but at the same time he will have a bunch of goodies from the employer (free coffee and cookies / lunch compensation / VHI for the family / conference / growth prospects), and there will be no hemorrhoids with secrecy, etc. P.
  4. Taimen
    Taimen 12 December 2022 06: 31
    -3
    In a state with crime, even the troops begin to become criminal. In PMC gangs, in computer hackers, and pedophiles will probably be written down as mishandled Cossacks, to the enemy (into spies, sorry, into scouts). Something is wrong, in the Oblonskys' house.
    1. alexoff
      alexoff 12 December 2022 22: 46
      +1
      Hackers have been recruited for 30 years for computer security and computer attack services around the world, usually during a search they offer a deal. Everything is normal here.
      1. filibuster
        filibuster 13 December 2022 12: 28
        0
        They rarely take it and they usually offer a deal of a completely different plan - to cooperate and extradite accomplices.
        1. alexoff
          alexoff 13 December 2022 21: 20
          0
          And after this transaction, there is a second transaction - you work for us in the wild or you go to prison. Some work in the zone. I remember the second season of "Mr. Robot" vividly showed this. But these are, of course, virtuoso hackers, if you hacked into the grandmother’s phone and stole money from her account, then there would be no deal.
          1. filibuster
            filibuster 13 December 2022 21: 54
            0
            It's all exactly what to say hijackers take to work as drivers. Serious specialists in information security, who work, for example, in Kaspersky and in Kaspersky, do not take people who “dirty” themselves in any illegal activity in IT.
            1. alexoff
              alexoff 13 December 2022 22: 09
              0
              Well, they took Snowden, as far as I remember. Mitkin was taken, and a bunch of smaller figures were taken by all sorts of security consultants. And they will take a cunning hijacker, although you probably won’t find such ones. As I said, this concerns unique frames.
              1. filibuster
                filibuster 13 December 2022 22: 56
                0
                Snowden is not a hacker, Mitkin was also not taken anywhere, he founded his own company after prison.
    2. Eule
      Eule 14 December 2022 09: 55
      0
      Quote: Taimen
      , and pedophiles probably in

      It was already. "Blue Hussars" - punitive units formed in 1942 in England. The Germans eventually made a deal with the Angles - they do not use war gases in London, and the British put the perverts back in prison.
  5. Mihail0221
    Mihail0221 12 December 2022 06: 56
    -1
    But there will definitely be a second wave, according to our forecast, from 70 to 100 people will leave in April.

    ... Migratory birds fly
    In the autumn gave blue, -
    They fly to hot countries
    And I stay with you.

    And I stay with you
    Native land forever!
    I do not need a Turkish coast
    And I don't need Africa...
    (Migratory birds fly).
  6. Sergey250455
    Sergey250455 12 December 2022 09: 12
    +1
    A hacker is a computer security specialist looking for weaknesses in the system, who either fixes them or uses them for his own selfish purposes. In my time there was such a language YMB. I was the programmer on it. But mostly I found the mistakes of others in writing programs and corrected them. And if some wrote long programs with their twists and turns, then I wrote short. Just to complete the task
  7. the same doctor
    the same doctor 12 December 2022 09: 33
    +4
    No, the idea is good. The deputy has a lot of money, let him hire someone and try. It is unlikely that anything will work out, but a friend will understand the topic and can succeed at the next iteration.
    Only... kill him on a success. Arrogant Saxons are watching our scientists and organizers and destroying the successful hands of their agents of influence in government structures.
  8. Maks1995
    Maks1995 12 December 2022 09: 43
    +2
    Good article.
    By the way, I want to add that there are often articles on the Internet about how some hackers / groups worked, worked for the country, received letters from the President, from the FSB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and then .... they were imprisoned. Moreover, there are regular military personnel ...

    Those. either the country uses crime, or often hacker groups are crime at the same time ...
    Capitalism in the yard. No one wants to share the captured cryptocurrency, farms and access to bank money. (there was news about the export to Chechnya, to the security forces and similar)
    1. alexoff
      alexoff 12 December 2022 22: 49
      0
      Not certainly in that way. These groups become like some kind of Bednov or Stremousov - as part of a gesture of goodwill, they are sacrificed in front of their partners. A few years ago, in Iran, a businessman was executed in this way, who arranged the sale of oil without the dollar and actually saved the country - he was sacrificed in order to improve relations with the West and resume the deal.
      1. Maks1995
        Maks1995 13 December 2022 09: 45
        0
        Could be. It's a matter of life. Sacrifice your sixes....
        Or maybe vice versa. Promise, and then throw as endured.
  9. gromit
    gromit 12 December 2022 10: 32
    +11
    The programmers who left, for the most part, continue to work for Russian companies and pay taxes in the Russian Federation (the company transfers salaries after deducting taxes)
    And where they will work from Astana or Kostroma anyway.

    1C programmers, if necessary, will retrain to other languages. Logic is logic. A database is a database. Programming in English is not a conversation, it is not necessary to be fluent.

    That's not the problem. The problem is the low level of education of citizens of the Russian Federation.
    Spirituality and strength helps to eat palm cheese and believe in the greatness of the country. But to solve complex and non-standard tasks - no.
    There are simply few IT specialists, and those that are are of low quality. And their salary seems high only by the standards of a poor Russian province.
    1. everfreen
      everfreen 12 December 2022 14: 15
      +6
      The programmers who left, for the most part, continue to work for Russian companies and pay taxes in the Russian Federation (the company transfers salaries after deducting taxes)


      While the tax is 13% - yes. But after 183 days, 3 big problems await.
      1) The Ministry of Labor threatens employers with fines because the employer cannot ensure working conditions and the safety of the employee. In other words, it cannot fulfill the conditions of the TD.
      2) The tax will be 30%
      3) Those who left will become tax residents at the place of stay, and will also be required to pay local taxes.

      Therefore, those who left en masse are switching to GPC, IP, foreign IP or quit. According to the first, if the contract indicates that the place of work abroad - 0% tax. In the case of individual entrepreneurs, they usually choose simplified taxation and there is a tax of 6% + contributions to the FIU.

      And in general. The grail of all IT in the Russian Federation is work for a foreign customer. Almost everyone was fine.
      - A foreign customer received a specialist and tax savings.
      - The specialist received a good European salary.
      - The budget received money in the form of taxes, literally from thin air.
      - The service sector received a wealthy client.
      - But the local employer suffered, small firms could not afford a good specialist. Even the joke was "There is a lack of low-paid highly qualified specialists on the market"

      But now everything is broken. Without foreign customers, I can’t imagine how good salaries will be maintained. And without a good salary, there will not be a large number of applicants.
      1. gromit
        gromit 12 December 2022 15: 58
        +1
        In 2021, the number of IT employees in Russia was estimated at 400.
        1300 thousand were required. Hence the high salaries.

        How many employees are required if we have to create and maintain our own software and electronics is even hard to imagine.
        And you see what a high-tech time.
        You cannot replace the educated Russian population with Uzbeks and Tajiks.
        Although, as it turned out, even the uneducated Russian population cannot be replaced by guest workers)) They will neither fight nor work hard at military factories for soldering.
    2. tsvetahaki
      tsvetahaki 12 December 2022 23: 13
      -1
      The programmers who left, for the most part, continue to work for Russian companies and pay taxes in the Russian Federation (the company transfers salaries after deducting taxes)

      Have you ever wondered why those who left need our rubles and how they use them THERE?
      And how much does the black conversion of rubles cost from here to there, what risks and nerves does it involve?
      1. gromit
        gromit 13 December 2022 09: 07
        +4
        They freely convert our rubles into the currency they need. From the Russian Federation, you can legally transfer up to 10 thousand dollars abroad monthly.

        What risks and nerves are you talking about?
    3. jdiver
      jdiver 13 December 2022 20: 59
      0
      1C programmers, if necessary, will retrain to other languages. Logic is logic. A database is a database. Programming in English is not a conversation, it is not necessary to be fluent.

      Everything here is completely different. 1C and programming of serious systems are two non-intersecting universes, the flights of the inhabitants of which into each other are extremely rare. Completely different approaches to the requirements for programming and for many other things related to programming. Many consider a person who has been working as a 1C programmer for a long time already a person with an irreversibly formed psyche who is difficult to retrain to work in other areas of IT. But here with whom to compare, if with a person who has not seen a computer at all, then of course it will be much better to prepare an IT specialist from a 1C programmer.
      That's not the problem. The problem is the low level of education of citizens of the Russian Federation.

      But this is yes. Moreover, the problem is already in the derivatives of education. Generations of teachers formed by this degraded compared to the Soviet education system have already been raised. And these teachers are already teaching children. And in order to correct the situation, it will be necessary to grow new teachers who will teach new generations. 40 years of inertia for a turn of this kind.
      1. gromit
        gromit 13 December 2022 22: 20
        +1
        Your 40 years to fix the situation is very realistic.
        Looking back, it seems to me that after the collapse of the Union, we smoothly rolled back to pre-revolutionary Russia. Finally, we faced the same challenges.
        Ossified monarchy, nepotism, corruption, oppositional attitude of the educated population, ignorance, obscurantism, hatred of the uneducated.

        I hope history will not repeat itself and the current situation will be the beginning of reforms, and not the beginning of a revolution.
        1. jdiver
          jdiver 13 December 2022 22: 56
          +1
          Absolutely agree with what has been said. Our elite set itself as a model "Russia that we lost" and regained in 1991. With everything that we left through the crucible of revolution and civil war. And we are flying exactly to it, since the will of the authorities to change the situation from above is not observed at all. The classic "tops can't, but bottoms don't want"
      2. Eule
        Eule 14 December 2022 10: 04
        +1
        Quote from jdiver
        1C and programming serious

        You can't really work with them!
        For a decade and a half, my wife pulled the company where she worked from the state of "a basement and two employees" into the top 10 travel agencies, with author's guides, her own bus fleet and dozens of employees.
        All the notions of "two Tatyana and Irinka" were gradually copied by other travel agencies for their sites. So, she had nothing to do with 1s. I wrote a module that directly filled in, or read and used their tables, and the code itself was in normal php and C. And nothing else.
        Because 1s parody is not a full-fledged programming language. Moreover, there are many errors and limitations that only interfere with normal operation.
  10. evgen1221
    evgen1221 12 December 2022 20: 00
    0
    We also add to what has been said the hopeless stupidity of the leaders from the authorities (unprofessionalism is tolerant) responsible for this. Sometimes they themselves are not in the tooth with a foot as it is arranged and everyone wants for free and better better, Ivanushka the Fool from fairy tales would envy.
    1. jdiver
      jdiver 13 December 2022 21: 11
      +1
      government agencies is "I'm the boss, you're d..k", I'm in communication and you're just like that. and the difference with the RFP at times between the thieves fool-boss and the type of IT specialist-performer. I think that this is not the case everywhere, but I have met this before and this was the rule and not the exception. well, as a result, they are sitting on some kind of budget, sawing an android application in a crowd for a year with a salary for programmers of 40K each, where work for one person from and to for a couple of months. Some of the adequate professionals want to dive into this? Only out of selfless love for the Motherland, but not many have preserved it when they need to feed their families, and the authorities are busy constantly complicating this process for their subjects.
  11. Svyatov_Den
    Svyatov_Den 12 December 2022 20: 59
    +2
    In the days of the USSR, for obtaining worthy results in the field of defense developments and not only, the Lenin Prize was established and it was of a very impressive size. Let's say it was possible to buy several Volga cars and a couple of summer cottages on it. And the state did not skimp on spending in order to catch up and overtake the West. It might be worth remembering this experience.
    1. filibuster
      filibuster 13 December 2022 12: 33
      -1
      And even this award did not help against the "fraud" which sometimes reached enormous proportions, when the same device was presented every time as a novelty and received prizes and awards. You can read:

      Matskevich V. V. Soldier of the Empire, or the Story of Why the United States did not Attack the USSR.
    2. jdiver
      jdiver 13 December 2022 21: 13
      0
      Well, now, too, for unparalleled development, many dachas have rumbled to themselves. The state is not stingy even now. The problem is process control.
  12. acetophenone
    acetophenone 12 December 2022 22: 45
    +2
    Yes ... such a topic ... As soon as the situation in the country escalated, it turned out that there was a failure in literally everything. And these damn gaps just keep getting bigger and bigger. From year to year. And the most unpleasant thing is that no matter how much you sell food from the TV screens, the problems are not solved.
  13. faterdom
    faterdom 13 December 2022 00: 53
    -1
    This way of thinking of our statesmen is still Kudrinsky: it will be necessary, we will hire experienced officers, IT specialists, doctors, if suddenly
    epidemic, but for now it’s not necessary, why waste money on them?
    There are a lot of doctors and military men with police, and I am Kudrin (Siluanov, Nabiulina) - one, and even a genius by nature!
    Hackers? And hire hackers - there they go on wheels through the streets in headphones - probably only hackers - you can see by cunning faces!
    And it seems to them that it is they, our elites thought of it themselves!
    And 150 years ago, Mikhail Evgrafovich accurately described everything.
    "But you need to find a peasant, somewhere here he must definitely be, only, a scoundrel, shirks!" - decided two generals, however, this was a special case, so would one general, and five, or, for example, not a general, but a deputy or 450 deputies ...
  14. Moneron
    Moneron 13 December 2022 04: 47
    0
    well, IT people do not want to fight and die for their homeland. and they receive money many times less than a foreign specialist. although by Russian standards 200 - 300 thousand ub. - a huge patch that gives them the opportunity to feel comfortable for a long time abroad .... or settle there in peace and grace for a permanent time. decent money instills in a person a sense of cosmopolitanism .... by the way, many of the kids of our Russian bosses have done this for a long time ..... and nothing .... we don’t scold because of this ....
    the financially independent, IT part of the population had to be freed from mobilization everywhere, regardless of who they work for. in 180 days, Russian experienced developers will massively move under foreign economic jurisdiction, dodging a 30% tax.
    this is how we will lose hundreds of thousands of ready-made specialists .... intimidating them with inevitable mobilization and draconian taxes.
    will we grow new ones from scratch?....and they will scatter....if they feel danger and discomfort...you need to be careful with this caste. We need them more than they need us.
  15. kriten
    kriten 13 December 2022 10: 06
    +1
    There is no need to hide the fact that we don’t consider anyone under IT specialists: tik tokers, bloggers of various formats, etc. "specialists". Of course, we also lost a lot of real IT specialists, but we must understand that in this area we have to compete with world monopolists not yet possible. Therefore, this is a natural process. Yes, if you understand how many of them worked in our country in foreign companies.
  16. Leader_Barmaleev
    Leader_Barmaleev 13 December 2022 12: 27
    +1
    I have repeatedly written on the topic that the two most important issues for the belligerent are goal setting (and target designation grows from it) and the victory criterion (what exactly is considered a victory and when to put an end to it) Not a single military specialist, even a real lieutenant general from the analytics department of the General Staff (do not think anything like that, we sat at the same desk at school for 10 years) could not clearly clarify these two points for me. That is, there is no state vision of how and for what to fight. Now let's go from the other side - what is a simple soldier fighting for? There are only three possible answers: 1. For the idea. (it doesn’t work, because Russia is a country without an ideology), 2. For the motherland (not for the country, but for your home, your family, YOUR land, for your girlfriends and your favorite fishing spot - and the global Motherland is an abstraction and for no one will fight without point 1), and finally point 3. For money - this is the simplest and most understandable motivational moment, those idealists who believe that not everything is sold for money simply forgot that what cannot be bought for money is easy bought for big money. I am amazed at the stupidity of our deputies - it is enough to declare an amnesty for hackers for all their previous sins and pay twice as much as the State Department pays to its hackers and Russia will have the BEST CYBER TROOPS IN THE WORLD! But deputies-businessmen (and all our deputies are businessmen) do not want to pay, they want to coerce, and since they have no brains and opportunities to coerce by force, they are trying to influence long-rotten patterns and categories. In short - if you want cyber troops - pay money, and not a lousy salary, but as much as a cyber fighter needs, so that he doesn’t look over the hill. And remember, gentlemen deputies - greed destroys. In the current situation - literally.
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 13 December 2022 15: 55
      -1
      Quote: Leader_Barmaleev
      . In short - if you want cyber troops - pay money, and not a lousy salary,

      Here you are smart, after all, for 10 years you sat at the same desk with the future lieutenant general, explain to me, the near-minded, why some citizens of Russia can, without their desire, according to the agenda, be sent to risk their lives and health with a payment of 200 rubles , and others, the same citizens of Russia, sitting in a warm office and not risking either life or health, have to pay millions?
      A shift in consciousness? Otherwise, how is it to be understood?
      And in my opinion, they can also be called on the agenda for the entire duration of the NWO and pay 150 rubles each. because they do not risk their lives or health.
      1. Leader_Barmaleev
        Leader_Barmaleev 13 December 2022 17: 11
        +2
        So, smart people have never been loved in Russia. Loved faithful and executive. Remember the two most important Russian raids - are you the smartest? those Che, most of all you need? And this is what the country has come to as a result - there are performers, but they don’t want to think, they want to be thought for them. So the time has come to pay smart - separately for the mind, separately for fidelity. And this cocktail is expensive.
        1. jdiver
          jdiver 13 December 2022 21: 16
          -1
          Loyalty is not paid. the price of such fidelity is worthless. pay for skills. And loyalty is either there or not. loyalty for money quickly turns into a 500 run
          1. Leader_Barmaleev
            Leader_Barmaleev 14 December 2022 02: 56
            +2
            It is a pity that you are not able to appreciate the depth of the stupidity that you said. You have just made the state the main freeloader who wants to get everything good from its citizens just like that. Yes, for many years they tried to scratch the dominant on the subcortex with a rusty nail - YOU HAVE TO !!! That's all, without explanation, without logic, without meaning - MUST! Well, what did it lead to? A handful of crooks manage the resources of the RICHEST COUNTRY, whose inhabitants repeat the mantra to themselves - "don't think, there is someone to think for you", and eat up the last thing they have left without salt ... But they are faithful. If the state cannot give anything in exchange for fidelity, loyalty and other love, then it has no right to demand anything in return. Smart people understand this, and it is precisely for this that the leadership of ALL levels does not like smart people. And the loyalty of the smart is expensive. And without them, there’s no way, without them, analogues for parades will appear in single copies, and most importantly, without smart ones, the faithful will die in batches. For the motherland.
            1. jdiver
              jdiver 14 December 2022 03: 38
              0
              Leader, don't get excited. You, in my humble opinion, mixed up several important things. For example state and country. The country is the people and the land on which he lives and on which his ancestors lived, or the land for which it was paid with the blood of this people. She is loyal to the country simply by the fact of birth. The state is something like an exoskeleton - a mechanism that builds a people out of itself (where people are the very cogs of a large mechanism). He builds as an amplifier of his power to achieve his (the people's) goals. And this mechanism can work both for the benefit of the people and to the detriment of it, if suddenly some neighboring people took part in programming its logic of behavior for their own benefit. So loyalty to the state is secondary. It may or may not be, if the state destroys the country and the people. Do you often swear allegiance to your car, or, say, a lathe? People who are sincerely loyal to the state are primarily loyal to their country and people, even if they do not realize they put an equal sign between the state and the people. And while remaining loyal to the country and the people, they act as they should, even without having any warm feelings for the state. And this loyalty is like love, for mother, for father. To the Motherland. She either exists or she doesn't. And money can't buy it. Loyalty that is bought is called differently. Therefore, they pay for knowledge and skills, and not for loyalty. And loyalty cannot be bought. She, like a friend, can only be sold.
              1. Leader_Barmaleev
                Leader_Barmaleev 14 December 2022 03: 52
                +1
                My friend, from the point of view of formal logic, I am already an old man, and for my full of adventures and a fairly long life, I have heard SO many slogans that I understood one simple thing - if the interlocutor starts talking to me in the language of slogans and clichés, then this means one thing of two:
                1. My interlocutor is a good but stupid person. He may even believe in what he says, but this no longer makes sense in his words. He is a zombie and zombies in Africa.
                2. My interlocutor is a smart but bad person and is trying to use me for his own purposes, and for free. For example, he does not mind that I personally went to be killed near Artyomovsk instead of him, and he will carry blissful nonsense about loyalty and love.
                Both of these extremes have nothing to do with objective reality. And by the way, you killed all your pathos with one last phrase - if something can be sold, then someone is buying it. And mark my word - it is the loyalty of smart people that will soon become the hottest commodity - learn from the Chinese who buy British pilots.
                1. jdiver
                  jdiver 14 December 2022 12: 00
                  0
                  you killed all your pathos

                  I'm sorry that at your age in what you say you see only pathos. So in my life I was lucky with people much more. Your right, and in addition to life experience, there are also features (let's call it the psyche) of the apparatus for analyzing this experience, and it is arranged very differently for different people, according to its design, it sees one thing and does not see the other. The world is equally built according to their own standards by those who think like you and those whom you consider stupid because they do something not for money, although they could, but for their vision of how the world should actually be arranged. I have met in my life both the first and second and my respect for the second, although the position of the first is quite understandable, they have more chances for a comfortable life for themselves personally.
                  Both of these extremes have nothing to do with objective reality.

                  Well, you know exactly how objective reality works. The main thing is not to lose this confidence, no matter what it costs :)
                  If something can be sold, then someone is buying it.

                  no, you just didn’t understand that you can sell, but you can’t buy. conduction in one direction. Once you have made a secret public, it ceases to be one. Once you've sold your loyalty, you're out of it, and out of the one who thinks he bought something.
    2. Eule
      Eule 14 December 2022 10: 19
      +1
      Quote: Leader_Barmaleev
      pay money, and not a lousy salary ... so that you don’t look over the hill

      Even on this site there is a story of a programmer known as Lugerman, he was a fan of pistols, and in time he moved to the United States, where instead of Article 222 there is the Second Amendment. Gradually assembled a collection, began to repair and restore something - and now he produces small batches of parabellum 45 caliber, there are so many sales that there is a queue of orders. That is, he went not only for money or abstract "freedoms", but for a completely certain freedom of possession of weapons.
      And there are many.
      At the end of 2019, a familiar jeweler and weapons restorer was overwhelmed with checks - now he makes jewelry and daggers for collectors in Izmir, and there is no danger of sitting down for losing sawdust or "making edged weapons." Here he had a fair amount of land, a forge, a workshop - he left everything so that they would not be imprisoned, and started almost from scratch in a safe place.
      1. Leader_Barmaleev
        Leader_Barmaleev 14 December 2022 11: 46
        +1
        Thank you for bringing up this VERY PAINFUL aspect of the theme of love for the motherland! I would really like to hear from all kinds of jdivers and Krasnoyarsk why our country, wanting to get EVERYTHING for free from a person, even his life, WANTS NOTHING TO GIVE IN RETURN???!!! Why is NOTHING POSSIBLE in our country??? Why are there such crooked laws that you want to live THERE??? Love is the most selfish feeling and it cannot be only in one direction, otherwise it will pass very quickly. Alas.
        1. jdiver
          jdiver 14 December 2022 12: 52
          0
          I already answered you, you are confusing the country and the state. The country is the people and the land where they live. The state is a mechanism built from people and having its own "mechanical" behavior. And if the people are dying out at the rate of a million a year, if the state is doing everything so that the people do not breathe and exhale, then at least in your questions address them correctly to the state and not to the country. A country cannot be changed to another without physically leaving it, but the state can. And in some places it happens that it is critically necessary for the survival of the country.
          Love is the most selfish feeling and it cannot be only in one direction, otherwise it will pass very quickly. Alas.

          love is the most selfless feeling, and that is why there is also such a word as justice, without taking into account which the most selfish will definitely use love. And from such creatures it is necessary to defend oneself, who argues. You just need to share for yourself who exactly you love and to whom and what you are faithful to. And love and loyalty exist until their owner decides to sell them. At this moment, they change their quality and begin to be called differently.
          1. Leader_Barmaleev
            Leader_Barmaleev 14 December 2022 13: 06
            0
            Demagogy (ancient Greek δημαγωγία - leadership of the people, currying favor with the people) is a set of oratory and polemical techniques and means that allow you to mislead the audience (the people) and win it over to your side with the help of false theoretical reasoning based on logical errors.

            All your distortions are appropriate in the kitchen for beer. Country = state. Justification - the country is people, the state is an instrument of suppression, the function of suppression is carried out by PEOPLE. Applause, curtain.
            1. jdiver
              jdiver 14 December 2022 13: 21
              0
              Well, you called yourself smart, so I suggested that you think a little about the structure of the state as a mechanism that has its own behavior. Especially in the topic of information technology, which considers the management of the behavior of systems in time.
              As I understand it, you offered yourself on the labor market as smart and faithful, I just wish you good luck in bidding.
              1. Leader_Barmaleev
                Leader_Barmaleev 14 December 2022 14: 15
                0
                My friend, I have worked in emergency medicine for over forty years and have never offered myself to anyone. Even now, when I am a happy grandfather and a retired person satisfied with life, no one is inviting me to come to me. So bidding is for you. Well, to the heap - there is a high art to shut up in time, you don’t own it yet, but I wish you to develop, otherwise they started so well and pathetically, and in the end they were so mediocrely blown away.
                1. jdiver
                  jdiver 14 December 2022 14: 28
                  0
                  So bidding is for you.

                  Great, but was it really me who offered the smart and faithful as a commodity for sale, and not you?
                  Even now, when I am a happy grandfather and a pensioner satisfied with life,

                  Sincerely happy for you. I hope that you love your grandchildren just like that without any obligation on their part, and are faithful like a grandfather to your family just like that, and not for payment from her side? Then why does the same thing said about your country cause you so much indignation about pathos? In my life, there are people whose own mother tells everyone what a wonderful mother she is and what a caring daughter, having actually survived her children and grandchildren and constantly terrifying them and her own mother. The fact that the children owe her because she is the mother, and the mother owes her because she is her daughter. She has a position in life very similar to yours in her almost 70 years and she grazes on the forums because no one wants to see her in life. I sincerely hope that you are wrong and everything you write is true.
                  Well, to the heap - there is a high art to shut up in time, you don’t own it yet, but I wish you to develop, otherwise they started so well and pathetically, and in the end they were so mediocrely blown away.

                  I finished the discussion before you :) you could not resist, apparently demonstrating your ability to shut up in time. Is everything you say about yourself as true as your claim to such a skill? :)
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. Eug
    Eug 13 December 2022 12: 58
    +1
    Lord, a bunch of familiar IT people work remotely and with at least a few customers. And one more thing - money is money, but the fans are there oh-oh-oh ... you need to combine the desire for professional improvement with material interest.
    1. Eug
      Eug 14 December 2022 17: 27
      0
      Yes, and one more thing - what IT people definitely won't do - is to walk in formation.
  19. Amateur
    Amateur 13 December 2022 15: 33
    +1
    A year ago, the eldest grandson graduated from high school and entered the university with a degree in information security. In this regard, I learned that training in this specialty is carried out in almost all technical and economic universities in Moscow. Competition - at the level of 260-280 points. So it's not all bad.
  20. Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 13 December 2022 15: 41
    0
    = A hacker in the public understanding is a bad person who engages in hacking, which is a priori illegal activity and is punishable under article 272 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. =
    So what? Our police also do not enjoy the love of the people, but this does not deprive them of the right, if necessary, to use weapons. Who prevents the state from creating a division of hackers for defense and attack in the interests of Russia? Are you? We are in a state of undeclared war with the West. And wars, as you know, are not fought in white gloves. So, O. Matveychev is right, and not someone, but a candidate of philosophical sciences and a member of the State. Duma of the Russian Federation. Someone is you.
    And why can a citizen of the Russian Federation be drafted into the Armed Forces, and even sent to the NVO front, and a certain programmer must be "buyed" with a large salary. Any IT specialist has not only rights, but also DUTIES to the state.
    1. nickname7
      nickname7 13 December 2022 17: 34
      +2
      and a certain programmer must be "buyed" with a large salary.

      An IT specialist in a trench is like hammering nails with a microscope.
  21. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 13 December 2022 20: 45
    0
    Hey author! Have you heard the phrase "American Cyber ​​Command"? Yes, a tree-stick ... ((
  22. vindigo
    vindigo 13 December 2022 21: 03
    0
    Information security guards are not all IT people. Lots of paper work. The so-called paper security and work with people.
  23. acetophenone
    acetophenone 13 December 2022 21: 41
    0
    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
    And in my opinion, they can also be called on the agenda for the entire duration of the NWO and pay 150 rubles each. because they do not risk their lives or health.

    So called! They've called! But they don't come... request Do not agree. That is, our big-stars call, and the vile people scatter ... tongue
    1. CirclePit
      CirclePit 18 December 2022 04: 05
      0
      They sent me a summons as the commander of a rifle squad, but now I’ve been working in IT for more than 5 years, and I finished my term in the 14th year - somehow I don’t really want to go to the military registration and enlistment office, knowing that the wise authorities will send me not by profession, but by "great need" in the trench.
  24. Plane_Junkers
    Plane_Junkers 17 December 2022 13: 07
    +1
    Cyber ​​troops and information security in general is not just about "recruiting hackers and security specialists," it is about creating a whole range of solutions, training personnel, legislative framework and all that, and all this should be done for a reason.

    As you understand, just throwing money in and getting results instantly will not work, it was necessary to create the industry from scratch "yesterday" for many years