Military Review

Aerospace Forces of Russia: falls and burns, burns and falls!

607
Aerospace Forces of Russia: falls and burns, burns and falls!




Part one. We fall and burn


With your permission (or without it), I will state two things at once. It’s just that both of them are the pain of the day for the Russian Aerospace Forces, so one does not interfere with the other.

I, to my great regret, have already spoken about the first part here: The old people will go into battle again?. Check, who is not too lazy, while everything turns out exactly according to the plan I drew.

Russian planes are falling. We are losing pilots, we are losing civilians, we are losing planes. And if planes are a replenishable business (probably), then the flight crew and people in general are not.

Nevertheless, VKS military planes fall with enviable regularity.

April.
Leningrad region. The MiG-31 fighter-interceptor fell, the pilots ejected.

June.
Su-25 attack aircraft crashes near Belgorod. The pilot survived.
Rostov region. The Su-25 is falling. The pilot dies.
Dubrovichi, Ryazan region. Falling IL-76 military transport aviation, the crew of 5 people die.

September.
Crimea. The Su-34 is falling. The crew ejects.

Октябрь.
Rostov region. The Su-24 is falling. The crew ejects.
On the same day, October 9, in the Rostov region, a Su-25 crashes, the pilot dies.

Yeisk. 17 October. Su-34 falls on a residential building. 15 people died.

Irkutsk. October 24th. Su-30 falls on a private house, the pilots died.

December.
Primorsky Krai. Falling MiG-31. The crew ejected.

In total, sad statistics: 9 aircraft and 10 people were lost in 24 months. For non-combat, that is, technical reasons. The reasons can also be disassembled, but there are no pilot errors, there are engine and control failures, the Su-30 crew suffocated from a malfunction in the oxygen system. In general, the picture is clear and understandable.

“The cause of the accident could be a technical malfunction”, - habitually reported in the Ministry of Defense.

Some hotheads have already started talking about sabotage, but no, we will talk about sabotage in the second part of my story.

Let's think about the mournful list of aircraft.
IL-76 - 1 units
Su-25 - 3 units
Su-24 - 1 units
Su-30 - 1 units
Su-34 - 2 units
MiG-31 - 2 units

Aircraft can be safely divided into two groups: old and not very old. Not very old ones are Su-30 and Su-34. The Su-30 has been in operation as a model for thirty years, the Su-34 for about eight.

As for the MiG-31, the youngest of which was manufactured in 1994, everything is clear here. The same applies to the Su-24, the most recent of the Su-24M was released in 1993. That is, in fact, there is an operation of thirty-year-old aircraft. But nothing here, the Tu-95 and V-52 have been serving for seventy years, they are not completely falling apart.

However, it is one thing to stand in the hangar, performing 2-3 sorties a year, and quite another when the aircraft is operated according to the full flight program. There is something to think about, there is room for maneuver, so to speak.

What are people close to aviation talking about today on this topic?

The fact that since the collapse of the USSR, for 25 years, pennies were allocated for aviation. The pilots give the figures of the raid. In the Soviet Air Force, the norm was 180-220 hours per year for a fighter. In the Russian Air Force, for many years it was normal to have 10-20 hours a year. Today in VKS - 35-45 hours. Progress? Yes. But there are nuances.

We have not only old aircraft that began to be exploited harshly in Syria, from which many did not return, but most of them - precisely for technical non-combat reasons. We also have undertrained pilots. I've heard this from many people in the know.

This saving effect has a rather prolonged effect. What if today they brought in tanks of kerosene and made it possible to fly again? Time, everything takes time. Including flight training. And aircraft repairs.

A pilot unprepared to the ideal plus an unreliable aircraft - and here are the results. On the ground, in flames and clouds of smoke.


No, the fact that the pilots were finally given the opportunity to fly more is wonderful. But here the more flights - the more accidents. This is normal and natural. But we also added a war, which is not really a war, but a NWO. True, the letters do not make it easier for pilots, a flight with a full combat load - it is still a flight.

What if there is more than one flight? And not two? And if there are 3-5 of them a day? Everything gets tired: both technology and people. It is easier with people, but with the repair of equipment again difficulties.

We paid a lot of attention to the sabbath that is going on in the industry under the guise of "optimization". And in the aviation industry, things are not much better than in the field of car repair. All the same squabbling over the budget, all the same undercover games.

In the Soviet Union, repairs were carried out exclusively by ARZs, aircraft repair plants. There were more than enough of them, but now ... Now, in the situation with the same Su-30s, which the 275th ARZ in Krasnodar was supposed to repair and modernize, the movements are moving towards capitalizing and modernizing fighters in Irkutsk. Where they release it.

The Su-34 is now being repaired a little closer, in Novosibirsk. Indeed, it is still not Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

That is. to drive a plane for repairs to the other side of the country is normal. But then there is the issue of quality. Not sure. That footage from Stary Gorodok near Kubinka and Krasnodar will rush to Siberia. Not sure.

In general, the situation is very ugly. In the conditions of warfare, equipment is operated much more actively than in peacetime, this is understandable. But with the change in operating conditions, it is necessary to change the conditions for the maintenance and repair of aircraft. Apparently, there are certain problems with this, otherwise why did the planes suddenly begin to fall from the sky in such quantities?

It is clear that the old ones, with a decent patina, which have not received proper maintenance and high-quality repairs for years, cannot behave differently. But, if Russia does not have the financial capacity to replace old aircraft with new ones (as with tanks), which means that it is necessary at least to put the maintenance of old aircraft on the proper level in terms of quality.

However, the reports show quite the opposite.

Part two. We burn and fall



We are burning on the ground, we are falling in the face of the "world community".

Another slap in the face of the Russian army, more precisely, the VKS. Attack at night of the strategic aviation base in Engels. No, just think about it: Base. strategic. Aviation.


These, by the way, are not just Tu-95 and Tu-160 aircraft, but aircraft with nuclear-powered Kh-55 and Kh-101 missiles. Absolutely the same component of the nuclear triad as our submarine missile carriers or the Yars complexes in the foothill hangars.

This is an attack on our nuclear deterrent. And, it is worth noting, not ballistic or cruise missiles, but a frankly ancient Soviet drone from the Tupolev Design Bureau (called the Tu-141 "Swift" and Tu-143 "Flight"), which in theory could not have flown from Ukraine. However, it arrived. Having passed through the air defense of the country through and through, like a knife through butter.

That is, we can safely conclude that after the attack on the airfields of Saki in the Crimea, Veretye ​​in the Pskov region, Millerovo in the Rostov and Shaikovka in the Kaluga regions, no conclusions were drawn.


The trend, excuse me, was obvious, that Russian aircraft would continue to burn (and 11 units were destroyed in Saki alone), the only question is where this will happen. Happened in Engels. At the airfield of strategic aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces. Where, judging by the images of the Maxar satellites, how did Russian strategic bombers stand at the parade.








I wonder who could give the order to set up the planes like that? What, I'm not afraid of this word, a military specialist? Half of our strategic aviation in close formation at one airfield ... Who could have thought of such a thing? Who should be punished to the fullest extent?

Where did the commander of the VKS look at all? One general makes pilots learn songs from him, the second arranges a day of open planes to the delight of the whole world ...


Surovikin - commander of the VKS. Here in the lower right corner is the date and time when the screen was taken on the website of the Ministry of Defense. The rest of the questions are not for me, but for the Minister of Defense and the Commander-in-Chief. And yes, no one removed him from the post of commander of the VKS!

I have no comments, as they say. Personally, I understand that this whole circus with tightly packed aircraft, tankers, ammunition did not begin yesterday. But Surovikin was also appointed commander of the Aerospace Forces already in 2017 ...

And as a result, we have strategic missile carriers, a threat to the entire NATO bloc, weapon unavoidable blow, uncovered and unprotected, stand in a heap on the runway. And they can be hit not only with a Soviet drone, but also with a flying aircraft assembled in a garage from Ali-express materials.

In NATO, probably, multi-star generals, neigh like horses. Spilling expensive whiskey on carpets and dropping cigars.

Russia's strategic forces are commanded by incompetent gentlemen.
Russia's strategic nuclear forces are not covered in any way.
Russia's strategic nuclear forces can be beaten with a penny drone.
Russia's strategic nuclear forces are helpless in front of anything from UAVs to conventional saboteurs.

The air defense of the Aerospace Forces, and the air defense and missile defense forces are structurally part of the Aerospace Forces with all the ensuing consequences, are unable not only to repel - to detect a threat!


I don't know what the generals are so busy with, I know what the pilots are doing. Abstracts and photo reports. And lawn mowing techniques. Perhaps with her paint.

From Ukraine, places where you can launch a drone comparable to the Shahed, to Engels in a straight line about 700 kilometers. We have considered the option:"Shahed" - "Barvinok" over Russian cities: prospects and options.

Today, the question of a DRG with a drone does not arise, at least in Engels. But so far it is very unclear what was in Ryazan, flew in, and how.

But the issue of sabotage for the future also cannot be removed. Residents of Engels write on social networks that the city has a decent number of refugees from Ukraine. Some of them were seen with Ukrainian flags and pro-Ukrainian yells. Could they have done this? Easy. Moreover, almost all conditions were created for such sabotage on the territory of the airfield. But the main question is: who even bothered to settle the arrivals from the state with which we are at war in the city where such a base is located?

Western media, viewing the pictures of November 28, rightly noted that “The tankers are standing next to the long-range bombers. And the bombers themselves, as you can see, stand wing to wing. That is, it is so close that if an emergency occurs during refueling, the result will be predictable. ("EurAsian Times").

How should the GUR of Ukraine have reacted? They definitely saw the pictures before publication. This is how they reacted. And they brought their agents into battle, which Russia kindly settled in their cities and villages. And these agents, not clover, living on benefits, studied approaches and approaches. Then she came up and took off.

We still don’t know the details in Ryazan ...

And here is such a slap in the face to Mr. General Armageddon. You know, commanding the Aerospace Forces for five years and commanding such things is, as it were, “understanding and forgiving” is difficult.

To be honest, until very recently, I thought that to take and strike at Engels like that is from the realm of fantasy. It turns out not. No fantasy. More precisely, there is fantasy, it is a blow with "Tomahawks" or "Minutemen". This is real fantasy. And reality is the oldest, the same age as me, a Soviet drone, uncontrollable and capable of flying exclusively along the route. Not even capable of maneuvering, flying according to the laid down program. And that's it, fantasy dies and reality remains.

A very shameful reality. Because you understand that if the "Reis" gave us such a plop, then what will happen when the "Axes" fly?

At one time, I said that Surovikin would have to answer very difficult in which case: Difficult choice for General Surovikin. But apparently, they will have to answer a little earlier, and not as the commander of the NMD, but as the commander of the Aerospace Forces. Because, firstly, the "achievements" of the Aerospace Forces are already hinting at their incapacity, secondly, a complete mess reigns at the airfields in terms of security and defense, and thirdly, when the Armed Forces of Ukraine switch off and they launch something at the Kremlin or a country residence Putin, it will be too late.

And everything that was said in this material should have been considered point-blank long before the country climbed into the war. You need to prepare for war, you know. But for this, you first need to recruit military leaders from somewhere who are suitable for something more than putting on each other awards of various denominations.

Well, we'll wait for another tough answer. And we will rejoice at the destruction of a couple more transformer substations. This is how everything will be - they are our strategic bombers, we are their transformers.

But, to be honest, I was shocked by the helplessness of our VKS. I thought there was at least some order. Alas, disappointment here too.
Author:
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  1. SaLaR
    SaLaR 7 December 2022 05: 25
    +103
    The navy was finished off, we will finish off and the air soldier
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 7 December 2022 05: 50
      +68
      Alas, disappointment here too.
      Especially against the backdrop of Konashenkov's victorious reports ...
      PS In Donetsk, 8 were killed, 20 were wounded...How many can you?!
      1. Aerodrome
        Aerodrome 7 December 2022 06: 10
        +2
        somehow there are no censorship words, for all this, the CBO really opened the abscess. Well, what about Surovikin, this is a moot point, dill channel 1 + 1, considers him the Minister of Energy of Ukraine ...
        1. Civil
          Civil 7 December 2022 07: 13
          +89
          1. Not aliens serve in the army, but the same people as in civilian life. Not from Mars, but from Russia.
          2. All processes that take place in the state / municipal administration in civilian life are just as fair to apply to the army.
          3. No need to be surprised, all this has already happened in history.
          1. kartantirambler.ru
            kartantirambler.ru 7 December 2022 12: 55
            +35
            Long live "United Russia" - the mind, honor and conscience of our era!
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Kaiten
              Kaiten 7 December 2022 20: 24
              -14
              Quote: kartantirambler.ru
              Long live "United Russia" - the mind, honor and conscience of our era!

              I consider this a mockery of the ruling party. To the pillory of history.
              1. Appraiser
                Appraiser 8 December 2022 13: 59
                +4
                It's not about the party, but about the "people" who represent it .....
              2. papas-57
                papas-57 9 December 2022 07: 43
                +1
                So EP itself has already nailed itself to this post.
                1. The comment was deleted.
            3. perm18
              perm18 8 December 2022 09: 42
              +3
              And here is the name of the party. here's the thing. name ngu differently and what will change. was the KPSS and what was better. there was also enough chaos. and how shameful all members of the CPSU, all 16 million fled. It's not about the names, it's about the people. in you and me. in all of them, they themselves chose such people, or even worse, they didn’t go to vote at all
              1. Sergey Drozdov
                Sergey Drozdov 8 December 2022 20: 57
                +10
                Oh, these members of the CPSU - they made, you know, different Tu-95 and 160, and jet drones and fled! Here are the bastards...
            4. SKVichyakow
              SKVichyakow 8 December 2022 09: 57
              +1
              Quote: kartantirambler.ru
              Long live "United Russia" - the mind, honor and conscience of our era!

              Closer to this situation, it will be: Chubais is alive, and the Chubais case continues to live.
          2. AUL
            AUL 7 December 2022 18: 02
            +12
            I will not believe that this stupidity is the result of just the stupidity and sloppiness of the leadership. Treason, wrecking and sabotage are too clearly visible here! And it is not clear, the controlling bodies of the Moscow Region do not catch mice at all, or from the same shobla?
            1. flicker
              flicker 7 December 2022 19: 16
              0
              And it is not clear, the controlling bodies of the Moscow Region do not catch mice at all, or from the same shobla?

              The human factor has not yet been canceled.
              In early 2022, two soldiers serving in Alaska committed suicide. As the article says, “The news of six suicides in the 11th Airborne Division comes after as many as 2021 soldiers committed suicide in Alaska in 17.”

              According to the article, the Marine commando died on May 9 at 12:35 p.m. at a local hospital "after suffering injuries in a helicopter landing incident during a joint training session at Joint Expeditionary Base Little Creek-Fort Stree," writes Military.com with reference to the official statement of the US Navy.

              As previously reported by the regional TV channel WTKR, the helicopter made a hard landing, which led to the hospitalization of three people.

              Note that over the past seven months, this is the second officially confirmed loss in the ranks of the US Naval Special Forces. In December 2021, 43-year-old SEAL Group Commander Brian Bourgeois was injured, from which he later died, while training in high-speed landing.

              The name of the deceased soldier will not be released for 24 hours until his family members are notified first. Three more wounded soldiers were treated on the spot, they were taken to the Womack Army Medical Center for further examination and treatment. Their names are also not disclosed, but in accordance with the principles of confidentiality.

              Recall that the other day the US Marine Corps announced the loss of the 174th Air Support Squadron of the Marine Corps in Hawaii - under unclear circumstances, 22-year-old Private First Class Isaac Romero drowned.

              And even earlier, the Pentagon acknowledged the death of seven members of the crew of the George Washington aircraft carrier, which does not even go to sea.

              "Estimating an average of 6364 veteran suicides per year, the total number of deaths between 2005 and today is likely to approach 95," the report says.

              Once again, no one has yet canceled the human factor.
              ---
              From 2013 to 2020
              US Air Force losses - 224 pilots and 186 aircraft
              1. AUL
                AUL 8 December 2022 10: 49
                +5
                Quote: flicker
                Once again, no one has yet canceled the human factor.

                Your information, of course, is very interesting, but what does it have to do with my thoughts?
                1. flicker
                  flicker 8 December 2022 17: 21
                  -3
                  but what does it have to do with my thought?
                  You claim that this
                  treason, sabotage and sabotage!

                  I gave an example of marches in the US Armed Forces - is there also "treason, sabotage and sabotage"?
                  Similar things happen everywhere and their name is the human factor.
            2. aglet
              aglet 8 December 2022 09: 21
              +10
              "Treason, sabotage and sabotage are too clearly visible here!"
              no need to blame the enemy for what is happening due to our stupidity, laziness and lack of education. here our managers, at all levels, will give a hundred points ahead to any enemy
            3. perm18
              perm18 8 December 2022 09: 43
              +1
              I agree that we have too many who are ready to simply sell and sabotage those who are against it.
            4. Russian jacket
              Russian jacket 8 December 2022 11: 15
              +12
              Not stupidity, but often this is a consequence of the creation of positions for relatives and relatives. And departments. I'll give you an example. For me, the shift supervisor of the power plant, in case of an emergency, the instruction requires that within 20 MINUTES I inform at least four characters about it. Except the controllers. Then calls begin demanding details. Instead of leadership, I have to deal with negotiations. Which are distracting. Once I answered at the wrong time and the main debriefing was about these 20 MINUTES. I will give two examples. I have allocated a turbine for isolated work. Within 5 minutes we eliminated the violation. We have a cross-link station. So, the main accusation was that I did not request permission to turn on from the dispatcher. They didn't tell me. But a colleague was synchronizing for 20 minutes and was punished because they considered that he had enough time to request. And the apotheosis of this story was the speech of our deputy chief for operations, that we are not operational managers, but administrators, and the main thing is to inform in time. Unfortunately, the built vertical of power is a garbage collector of opportunists and relatives. Caucasian clans nervously smoke on the sidelines. hi
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 8 December 2022 12: 06
                -1
                Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                To me, the shift supervisor of the power plant,

                We call it NSS. DIS used to be.
                And by workshops - NS KTs, NS ETs, NS KhTs, NS TAI, NS TC. bully
                1. goblin xnumx
                  goblin xnumx 8 December 2022 13: 41
                  0
                  Well, he would have called himself the head of the station shift ..- so then you would have been clever - they say there are no shift supervisors at the stations - there are station attendants. for such, he writes that he is a power engineer and not a railway worker ...
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 8 December 2022 15: 31
                    -2
                    Quote: Leshy74
                    that he is a power engineer and not a railway worker ...

                    It is not polite to flatter someone else's conversation with your own conjectures. Because I'm not a railroad either. wink
                    1. goblin xnumx
                      goblin xnumx 9 December 2022 23: 39
                      0
                      if anyone doesn’t know, here is a general forum, if you want confidentiality, in a personal ... and no one will come to you .. and the TAI workshop is also gone ...
                2. Russian jacket
                  Russian jacket 8 December 2022 17: 42
                  +3
                  Yes, according to the old DIS, NSS. But after the type of standardization of posts, the name was changed. But all the same, in the negotiations we are called NSS (station shift supervisor). hi
            5. Piramidon
              Piramidon 8 December 2022 17: 56
              +3
              Quote: AUL
              Treason, wrecking and sabotage are too clearly visible here!

              There is no need to climb into the jungle and look for some kind of saboteurs and saboteurs where banal sloppiness, incompetence and nepotism take place.
            6. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk Yesterday, 17: 28
              0
              Quote: AUL
              Treason, wrecking and sabotage are too clearly visible here!

              It seems to me, dear, that you are bending the cold here. What treason?
              In fact, the planes in Engels stood still from Tsar Pea. And in order to disperse them, a reason was needed. And the occasion was not long in coming. Actually long enough. February 24 is not a reason yet, because no one has canceled the inertia of thinking. And only a blow to the airfield became an occasion. You know, in hindsight, we, not only the author, are strong. But even if Surovikin took care of the dispersal of aircraft and the construction of hangars for them after February 24, how much time and money would be needed to implement the plan? Let's not forget about the bureaucracy of the Moscow Region. He is alive and active.
              I agree with the author of the article, I agree with the correctness of the questions raised, but I will not be so categorical about Surovikin. We do not know anything exactly about his activities as Commander-in-Chief of the Aerospace Forces, so there is no need to rush to blame. It must be understood that the Commander-in-Chief of the Aerospace Forces is not omnipotent. Even our Supreme is not omnipotent.
              Even grandfather Lenin taught us - "Everyone can criticize and spite, but not everyone can work."
          3. Alexy
            Alexy 8 December 2022 00: 09
            +5
            Worse! In civilian life, those who disagree will move to another place of work, will have the opportunity to promote their ideas. In the army, this will be rotten, ass-lickers without brains will rise up.
        2. Hyperion
          Hyperion 7 December 2022 07: 45
          +17
          Stop posting fakes. Do you really think that Ukrainians are so stupid?
          1. Aerodrome
            Aerodrome 7 December 2022 15: 14
            -2
            Quote: Hyperion
            Stop posting fakes. Do you really think that Ukrainians are so stupid?

            No, I think you have zero sense of humor))
          2. flicker
            flicker 7 December 2022 23: 13
            +2
            Do you think that Ukrainians are so stupid?
            They blew their country - this is of course from a great mind.
            ---
            On the topic of the article: everyone has problems.





            Fall and burn, burn and fall
            1. Mityasha
              Mityasha 8 December 2022 07: 05
              +8
              And now what? You need to look less at others, and do more at home. Or calm down and wait until all planes are killed in the west? They have an order of magnitude more aviation than ours, this is in America, and if we take all unfriendly countries, then by 2 orders of magnitude.
            2. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 8 December 2022 12: 10
              +6
              Quote: flicker
              On the topic of the article: everyone has problems.

              Do you want to compare scales? wink
              Our problems are systemic.
              1. flicker
                flicker 8 December 2022 17: 10
                +2
                Do you want to compare scales?
                Here are the numbers for 7 years in the US.
                From 2013 to 2020
                US Air Force losses - 224 pilots and 186 aircraft

                On average, there are 32 pilots and 26 aircraft per year.
                Our problems are systemic.
                And what do they have?
                Who controls the global system? USA.
                And we are part of this global system, which means that our problems are largely a consequence of their global system.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 8 December 2022 20: 37
                  0
                  Quote: flicker
                  On average, there are 32 pilots and 26 aircraft per year.

                  How predictable are you! laughing Will you tie the number of departures and flight hours to your numbers? Or weak? wink
                  Quote: flicker
                  And we are part of this global system

                  And who is so smart that for more than 20 years he has so linked the Russian system to US standards (to the worst), that now we are spitting up blood?
                  1. flicker
                    flicker 10 December 2022 10: 51
                    +1
                    number of departures and flying hours bind
                    Or weak?
                    And who is so smart that for more than 20 years he has so linked the Russian system to US standards
                    The system was tied to the "standards" of the United States not for 20 years, but within a year or two. Who got this system?
                    If you understood what a "system" is, you would not ask such a question.

                    There are only two options: either fit into the existing global economic system, or create your own.

                    Are we spitting up blood now?
                    Are you talking about Ukraine?
        3. skeptick2
          skeptick2 7 December 2022 09: 37
          +30
          Quote: Aerodrome
          Well, what about Surovikin, this is a moot point,

          Really controversial. Maybe it was not worth sculpting an icon from Mr. Surovikin here a month earlier? Somehow it is hard to believe that the planes lined up in parade formation for all to see without the knowledge of the commander of the VKS. And by the way, on what basis motorized rifle in life Surovikin was appointed on October 31, 2017 to the post of commander in chief aerospace forces?
          I have a question for Sumarokov. Non-combat losses of aircraft, of course, are impressive. But people are much more interested in the number of downed planes and helicopters in the NWO. The fact that all (even with a hook) Ukrainian aviation was destroyed in the first days, we have long known from the stories of Konashenkov. And what about our aviation losses? It is clear that everything is classified. It is clear that voicing these figures is a no-brainer. But at least a trend in this direction could be identified? At least a hint? How such an important topic is touched upon? Or are we fighting as usual - without losses? According to Konashenkov?
          1. Alex_mech
            Alex_mech 7 December 2022 10: 49
            0
            In fact, the number of boards is only increasing. See for yourself, there are no losses, but the industry is making new aircraft. (there should be a smiley, but I don’t know which one)
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Sevastiec
              Sevastiec 7 December 2022 22: 02
              +2
              Quote from: Alex_mech
              In fact, the number of boards is only increasing.


              And exactly?


              And since he spoke:
              This is an attack on our nuclear deterrent. And, it is worth noting, not ballistic or cruise missiles, but a frankly ancient Soviet drone from the Tupolev Design Bureau (called the Tu-141 "Swift" and Tu-143 "Flight"), which in theory could not have flown from Ukraine. However, it arrived. Having passed through the air defense of the country through and through, like a knife through butter.


              Anyone who believes that this is Swift or Flight immediately goes into the category of idiots.
              1. Dart
                Dart 7 December 2022 22: 57
                +2
                Guess what it could be?
              2. Jose
                Jose 8 December 2022 01: 57
                +1
                Your version? Not an axe. And not the star Wormwood.
              3. Alex_mech
                Alex_mech 8 December 2022 10: 06
                +1
                These, in my opinion, are new UAVs, possibly (this could explain the statements that they are them) using 141 or 143 fuselages but with new engines (for example, with those AI-25s that are planned to be installed on the Bayraktar jet) and avionics. Or maybe a completely "new" UAV. For its development, everything was both personnel and time. Now mass production will be established, for example in Poland, and even easier in Transcarpathia and there will be more information.
                1. Sergey Sfiedu
                  Sergey Sfiedu 8 December 2022 20: 43
                  0
                  Will the AI-25 "Reis" pull out? I strongly doubt it.
                  1. Alex_mech
                    Alex_mech 9 December 2022 09: 43
                    0
                    Why do you doubt? L-39 "pulled out" other aircraft too.
              4. Alex_mech
                Alex_mech 8 December 2022 10: 08
                +3
                And exactly?
                I wrote about the smiley in parenthesis, specifically to make it clear that this is sarcasm.
          2. nickname7
            nickname7 7 December 2022 12: 08
            -14
            But at least a trend in this direction could be identified?

            Why do you need this ? Amuse idle curiosity? Or are you a spy?
            Meanwhile, if we focus on the measures of martial law in the USSR in 41, then all radios were ordered to be withdrawn from the population, and information about the front was provided by Livitan and the newspaper Pravda.
            1. skeptick2
              skeptick2 7 December 2022 13: 03
              +4
              Quote: nickname7
              and information about the front was provided by Levitan and the newspaper Pravda.

              I know. Moreover, I carefully read the issues of the Sovinformburo for June-July 1941. After that, I was perplexed for a long time - what did the Wehrmacht fight at all until 1945?
            2. YOUR
              YOUR 7 December 2022 15: 51
              +9
              Are we in martial law? We do not have any war
          3. Briz
            Briz 7 December 2022 13: 56
            -4
            It is somehow hard to believe that the planes lined up in parade formation for all to see without the knowledge of the commander of the airborne forces.
            On January 27, 2021, the State Duma and the Federation Council ratified the agreement between Russia and the United States on the extension of START until February 5, 2026. On January 29, President Putin signed the law on the extension of START, and on February 3, the agreement entered into force

            There is a clause (like X) about control from space, and so, according to it, all strategists should be visible from space. So you can't hide them for now without violating them.
            1. dobrynin
              dobrynin 7 December 2022 15: 47
              +1
              Have the Americans built their own too? Somehow I doubt it!
              1. bayard
                bayard 10 December 2022 07: 43
                0
                Quote: dobrynin
                Somehow I doubt it!

                And in vain - they stand in orderly rows in the open air, I don’t want to bomb.
                Yes, and look at the satellite image of the air base in Engels - where else can these bombers be dispersed? Moreover, many of them were trained for combat missions.
                According to the mind, it was necessary to disperse our strategists during the threatened (and now just such) period at different airfields ... but for this, these airfields must be. And at these alternate airfields there must be everything necessary for pre-flight maintenance.
                Of course, the Sumerians would never have been able to do this on their own, even having combat-ready and converted Swifts in the Kyrgyz Republic. Target designation, laying a route bypassing the on-duty air defense radar systems, at a time when there is guaranteed not a single A-50U in the air, and at a time when strategists standing in a row are preparing for a massive raid. Such a "Strizh" must at least have an American navigation unit of the global satellite positioning system.
                And it should also be taken into account that at the same time such a strike was delivered on THREE long-range airfields and all these THREE strikes REACHED THE GOAL. For the country and the Army, which has been fighting / leading the NWO for 10 months, this is somehow ... STRANGE. Three cruise missiles the size of a light fighter in three directions, on three different routes, attacked the airfields of Long-Range Aviation completely unnoticed.
                The success of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and their curators?
                Definitely.
                Stupidity and bungling of the best (without any antics - the best) Air defense systems?
                I strongly doubt it.
                Here it looks more like a flight of Rust to Red Square. And even worse. Although, for the landing of Rust on Vasilyevsky Spusk, in a couple of days, trolleybus and other wires were carefully removed. And it doesn’t matter that Rust was discovered in a timely manner by the Vodopad of the Tallinn Radio Engineering Brigade ... the guy had to land in the center of Moscow.
            2. Just a visitor.
              Just a visitor. 7 December 2022 20: 00
              +2
              Is it possible to write to them so that it is not visible from space?
          4. sadam2
            sadam2 8 December 2022 20: 15
            -1
            Hmm, the savior of the nation gave him so much hope, he puffed out his cheeks gloomily ... right now there is a candidate for whom to write off this non-war ... and the VKS will also remember the arms trade ...
            The question is, where will we get so many generals if we change them like gloves in the second round?
        4. insafufa
          insafufa 7 December 2022 10: 40
          +7
          Well, the transformer costs at least 1 million bucks, the rocket is 4 million so we can go broke on rockets. Geranium is cheaper
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 7 December 2022 10: 55
            +17
            And add to this the losses from an emergency power outage. Yes, plus the shutdown of factories, railways, the cost of fuel (which is already lacking) for generators, spoiled food in refrigerators, and the lack of electric heating. And all this on the scale of a very small country.
            1. GOR_XVII
              GOR_XVII 7 December 2022 11: 52
              +19
              And add to this the losses from an emergency power outage. Yes, plus the shutdown of factories, railways, the cost of fuel (which is already lacking) for generators, spoiled food in refrigerators, and the lack of electric heating.

              And how can all this protect the residents of Donetsk from continuous shelling, the fear of losing their loved ones, or even being killed themselves? Spoiled food in the fridge? And the military of Ukraine has enough fuel, and the streets of Kyiv are filled with cars. The question arises, where do they get fuel, and for the army and for the population it needs a huge amount, millions of tons. I wouldn't be surprised if it was revealed that it comes from Russia through third parties with Putin's tacit consent. Perhaps from our friendly countries. Therefore, Putin does not destroy the railway. and highways. "Putin's best friends are the oligarchs." But the military does not really need electricity. Where necessary, their generators work, and somewhere you can shake it with a hand pump. Not transformers need to be hammered, but railways and highways. This would be much more useful for the war than cutting off electricity to a resident of Odessa. One gets the impression that Putin and Shoigu are playing soldiers. And there is no one to tell them. Who does not know himself, and who is afraid to show himself smarter than the Sunny.
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 7 December 2022 12: 22
                +1
                It has already been said 100 times: the repair of the railway track after the impact of the CD takes no more than 2 days. The same story with the highway. Bridges to hit the RK are also not effective, these are capital structures, dozens of missiles can be planted there without a guarantee of destruction - the Antonovsky Bridge is an example of this.
                But it would be useful to destroy the depot with diesel locomotives.
                "Putin's best friends are the oligarchs"

                Well, let's say... We need to sell oil and its products, this is a large percentage of the budget. Unfortunately, after the sale, we cannot indicate where and to whom to sell processed products. And the fuel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is taken from neighboring territories - Poland, Romania.
                One gets the impression that Putin and Shoigu are playing soldiers.

                And you probably know the whole alignment better? Including political?
                1. gsev
                  gsev 7 December 2022 16: 32
                  +1
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  But it would be useful to destroy the depot with diesel locomotives.

                  Diesel locomotives are only 20% of all Ukrainian locomotives. They are often on the move, it is problematic to hit them with geraniums. And if there is no electricity, then 80% of the locomotives stopped. Russia urgently needs to put into production a long-range drone based on successful models. Own equipment will certainly be cheaper than imported ones. It’s just that it’s better to entrust this grandfather to Kadyrov and Strelkov and not to HSE graduates.
                  1. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 7 December 2022 16: 36
                    +5
                    In the phrase "depot with diesel locomotives" the emphasis should be on the word "depot".
                    1. gsev
                      gsev 7 December 2022 17: 59
                      +6
                      Quote: Wedmak
                      the emphasis should be on the word "depot".

                      The depot is just a shed. Spending a missile on breaking through its roof or wall is stupidity. Geranium can and will break through the roof of the depot, but it will damage the diesel locomotive in the depot with a low probability. And any residents of a rural house for a work shift with the participation of a good welder will be able to patch the roof with boards and roofing material or roofing iron. The loss upon impact on the transformer is not damage to it, but the shutdown of several factories, the cooling of an open-hearth electric furnace and the defrosting of blood supplies in a hundred hospitals. It makes no sense to damage 5% of transformers, 5% of depots, 5% of bridges, 5% of locomotives, if you can damage! 00% of transformers in Ukrainian nuclear power plants and large hydroelectric power plants, which will immediately drop electricity production by 2 times and lead to a collapse of industry and an increase in the cost of electricity every 5.
                      1. Wedmak
                        Wedmak 7 December 2022 21: 23
                        +2
                        The depot is not just a shed, it is a place for repair and maintenance of trains. By putting it out of action, we will add more problems to the railway of Ukraine. On the street, you can’t repair too much. Especially in winter.
                      2. gsev
                        gsev 7 December 2022 22: 04
                        -1
                        Ukraine is not Siberia. I made a frame, covered it with a tarpaulin and here’s your workplace. In extreme cases, you can lay the insulation under plywood or argolite. What is the problem with servicing an electric motor or a diesel engine? Locomotive motor with transmission on a cart and automation kit.
                2. GOR_XVII
                  GOR_XVII 7 December 2022 19: 08
                  +2
                  dozens of missiles can be planted there without a guarantee of destruction - the Antonovsky Bridge is an example of this.
                  But it would be useful to destroy the depot with diesel locomotives.

                  It depends on what and how to hammer on the bridge. The HIMARS missile is similar to our Tornado. They hit the bridges with more serious Caliber-type missiles, and even better with Iskander. No bridge can stand against them. And the same with the railway. lines. If in one place, then yes, after 2 days at best. Partisans during the Second World War blew up lines in 4-5 places at once. Repairs dragged on for months.
                  Regarding the depot with diesel locomotives. Diesel locomotives are in the depot only in one case, this is during repairs. They are constantly moving, especially now. Everyone is carrying military supplies.
                  We need to sell oil and its products, this is a large percentage of the budget.

                  But it’s okay that it is with the help of these products that our citizens, both military and civilian, are being killed. What do you value more, a new Ferris wheel in Moscow or people's lives? Well, other things in the same vein.
                  1. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 7 December 2022 21: 02
                    +2
                    Calibers were beaten on the bridge near Odessa. And probably hit 5 times. So what? They damaged a little one way, but scratched the support a little. They fixed it pretty quickly. Only two options will cope there: one and a half from a bomber or sappers. In the second option, 100% will put any bridge in any position. As you understand, in this case, the bomber has a one-way flight, and it’s not a fact that it will even go on a combat course.
                    But it’s okay that it is with the help of these products that our citizens, both military and civilian, are being killed.

                    They are killed primarily with the help of artillery and MLRS. Donetsk 3rd day under fire. But here you need to destroy the shooters, and not look for de fuel from them. This will be more efficient.
                  2. gsev
                    gsev 7 December 2022 22: 11
                    -4
                    Quote: GOR_XVII
                    They hit the bridges with more serious Caliber-type missiles, and even better with Iskander. No bridge can stand against them.

                    Does the accuracy of the caliber allow you to get into the bridge? The bridge hangs over the water. The FSB most likely did not bother to obtain its exact geographical coordinates. After all, her main occupation was the fight against the opposition. The transformer is easily damaged. Its winding is copper and filled with oil, a bullet or a fragment will cause a short circuit and a fire. And this must be done quickly. Surely the Ukrainians began to cover their transformers with armor. This is what we need to do. It’s not a pity to spend a lancet and geranium on a transformer, and a caliber can only be spent on a step-up transformer for a nuclear power plant or hydroelectric power plant.
                    1. Wedmak
                      Wedmak 8 December 2022 06: 42
                      0
                      Does the accuracy of the caliber allow you to get into the bridge? The bridge hangs over the water.

                      Yes, it does. Do not care how he hangs there above the water. Moreover, you need to get into a very wide canvas of the bridge, preferably damaging the supports. But the problem remains, the CD charge is not enough to destroy it.
                      The FSB most likely did not bother to obtain its exact geographical coordinates.

                      What does the FSB have to do with it, it’s not entirely clear, Caliber is in charge of the VKS. But do you really think that there are no detailed maps, according to which, I will reveal the secret, you can probably get the coordinates of any object on them with an accuracy of up to a meter.
                      Surely the Ukrainians began to cover their transformers with armor. This is what we need to do.

                      They began to do deboning, but this will not save much from diving ammunition. Unless the neighbor gets less. And for 400 kg of explosives, any armor, pah and grind.
                      1. gsev
                        gsev 8 December 2022 15: 28
                        0
                        Quote: Wedmak
                        But do you really think that there are no detailed maps, according to which, I will reveal the secret, you can probably get the coordinates of any object on them with an accuracy of up to a meter.

                        Not so simple. The USSR collapsed in 1991. Russia did not have its own analogue of GPS at that time. The topographic survey of the area was carried out by the topographer with theodolites, which could be mistaken by 100-300 meters. Usually, for such purposes, they use the exact coordinate obtained by reconnaissance or taken on their territory, and using it they get to a known coordinate on enemy territory using surveys from space or from an aircraft. If there are enemy maps, then you can determine the geographical location of the object. If there are no maps, then aerial photography measures the distance to the object. In order to obtain topographic points in Russia, the United States initiated a program for the conservation of the Siberian Crane in Yakutia. GPS receivers were placed near each nest and received exact coordinates in the depths of the USSR. Or they sent cargo via the Trans-Siberian Railway with GPS, which regularly recorded the coordinates, and the satellites photographed the car with the receiver at that time. In Ukraine, our system is banned, the American one gives a deliberate error.
                      2. Dab
                        Dab 8 December 2022 22: 02
                        +1
                        And our maps for navigators of the entire CIS are probably fake?) And Googlemaps, which shows maps with an accuracy of 10 meters?)
                      3. gsev
                        gsev 8 December 2022 22: 31
                        -1
                        Quote from Dab
                        And Googlemaps, which shows maps with an accuracy of 10 meters?)

                        As far as I understand, Googlemaps can distort the geographic coordinates of important objects. Russian gunners in South Ossetia were not very good at shooting accurately while aiming at Googlemaps. Even the Ukrainians failed to quickly and effectively destroy 2 bridges. It took them several months to do this with an unlimited amount of ammunition for the Khmaers. Moreover, our troops quite organizedly crossed from the Right Bank of the Dnieper under the fire of the Khmayers.
                3. aglet
                  aglet 8 December 2022 09: 32
                  0
                  "And you probably know the whole alignment better? Including the political one?"
                  and who knows it completely, this alignment? Putin? it is unlikely that everything is brought to him
                  1. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 8 December 2022 09: 35
                    0
                    Oh, how ... and the shadow government, led by lizard-like aliens, is probably in charge of all this ...
                    1. aglet
                      aglet 8 December 2022 11: 28
                      0
                      "it's probably the shadow government led by lizard-like aliens."
                      it looks like they control you if you can't think of anything else laughing
              2. alexoff
                alexoff 8 December 2022 01: 35
                +1
                Well, it's useless to bomb the tracks. Railways should be bombed wisely, for example, with a difference of 12 hours in the same place, so that there was no one else to repair the road. But I would suggest bombing the tax office in Kyiv (I don't know what it's called), banks, the Rada and other mansions. In general, all those goals, because of which ukrotv will shed tears, and ordinary Ukrainians will laugh. So maybe they'll find a red flag under the bed
              3. Jose
                Jose 8 December 2022 02: 13
                0
                As for fuel from the Russian Federation for Ukraine - here you operate solely with your own conjectures in the complete absence of any hint of argumentation. Still, from childhood I was taught to be responsible for the bazaar. That is, for your words. You are not responsible for your "bazaar" and at the same time you are actually making accusations of treason in the form of aiding the enemy.
                Imagine yes. The economy of Ukrainians will collapse - the rear of their army will also collapse. Can a railroad function without electricity in the 21st century? That's right - it can't. Means of control and communication, signaling, centralization and blocking can work without electricity on a modern railway? Can not. So why waste expensive rockets bombing the canvas when without electricity, transportation simply won't work? Diesel locomotives? Not a panacea, because for their refueling and maintenance in the depot you need electricity and water. And their drivers and locksmiths, as well as railway workers and dispatchers on the railway, also need to wash (nothing to do), and eat (nothing to eat because of non-working refrigerators), and live somewhere (nowhere in winter because there is no heating in the house, and boiler rooms without Electricity doesn't work either. Accordingly, military logistics will be disorganized after civilian logistics. Generators? Fuel for them is not infinite. Their authorities will be forced to divert a significant part of the army for the tasks of evacuating civilians, fighting epidemics, etc. Serbs NATO in this way and put on their knees.
                1. Wedmak
                  Wedmak 8 December 2022 06: 50
                  0
                  You are not responsible for your "bazaar" and at the same time you are actually making accusations of treason in the form of aiding the enemy.

                  I don’t need to sew an article out of the blue here. The enemy must be respected, even if you hate him.
                  The Serbs did not have an electrical network with a threefold margin of safety, which Ukraine inherited from the USSR. It was built with the expectation of such damage, you know, the Cold War ... In addition, the power generation there was also higher than necessary, which is why quite recently the green boasted that it could sell electricity to the EU. However, after the last two strikes, the system went into overdrive, the reserves were exhausted. One or two more raids and that's it, you don't even have to beat the very expensive transformers from nuclear power plants. In addition, this destruction of them can cause the danger of an accident at the stations, remember the ZNPP, where they miraculously avoided an accident when the external power supply was cut off through the power lines. Here are a few more exclusion zones that are completely out of place for us.
                  1. Jose
                    Jose 8 December 2022 17: 54
                    0
                    for the shelling of the Zaporizhzhya NPP, it was necessary to give them an ultimatum in general: one more shell at the station - and in response a limited nucleus.
          2. bayard
            bayard 10 December 2022 07: 49
            0
            Quote: insafufa
            Well, the transformer costs at least 1 million bucks, the rocket is 4 million

            Actually, even Axes are cheaper, why would our CD have such a price tag?
            I clarify - the cost of the KR "Caliber" costs no more than 400 thousand dollars. It's also expensive, but it's still not the same coat that you sewed.
            Quote: insafufa
            Geranium is cheaper

            And "Geran-2" - according to more less reliable rumors, has a cost price at OUR three enterprises, about $ 800. USA. Also not cheap, but much cheaper than a transformer.
            X-101, of course, costs more. Yes, to launch it and the strategist has to be lifted into the air.
        5. Romanovski
          Romanovski 7 December 2022 20: 54
          0
          Skomorokhov, have you thought about whether your articles on "VO" are read in the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Armed Forces of Ukraine ??? And what are the conclusions?
          1. aglet
            aglet 8 December 2022 09: 43
            +2
            "Skomorokhov, have you thought about whether your articles on" VO "are read in the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Armed Forces of Ukraine ??? And what are the conclusions?"
            the author put together information from open sources, and the ukrov gurus have their own sources of information, probably better than Skoromokhov
            1. bayard
              bayard 10 December 2022 07: 57
              0
              Quote: aglet
              the author put together information from open sources

              The figure of aircraft losses during the strike on the airfield in Saki was especially touched ... as many as 11 pcs. what Actually, there were two squadrons at that airfield - one on the Su-24, the other on the Su-30SM. Each squadron in the state has 12 aircraft ... Meanwhile, a few days after that strike, I personally observed almost daily sorties of these very "destroyed" Su-24M \ M2.
              And how could this happen?
              Although several aircraft certainly suffered or were destroyed. But ... for the only remaining Su-24M \ M2, such activity is somehow ... unnatural.
        6. Sasha1979
          Sasha1979 8 December 2022 09: 06
          0
          So today, the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Aerospace Forces is the chief energy officer of the "so-called former Ukraine" ...
      2. Konnick
        Konnick 7 December 2022 08: 22
        +11
        Especially against the backdrop of Konashenkov's victorious reports ...
        PS In Donetsk, 8 were killed, 20 were wounded...How many can you?!


        But our planes shoot down very few, such an achievement. And you can make it so that they don’t shoot down at all, just put all the aircraft on a joke, and we’ll also save. Counter-battery combat without aviation "money down the drain".
        1. YOUR
          YOUR 7 December 2022 15: 58
          +13
          Taking into account the fact that almost all air defense systems in service with Ukraine are Soviet-made. All frequencies are known, but our electronic warfare had to score them in the first seconds of the NWO and never let them out of their affectionate embrace. But for some reason they work. In Iraq, all US aircraft were mandatorily equipped with anti-ship missiles, one or two hung under the wing, and as soon as it was discovered that they were being irradiated by the radar, a launch immediately followed. Hit did not hit is another matter, but forced to turn off. In the future, they managed to use these missiles to fire at radio centers, knocking out radio stations of medium and high power. Why don't we have this? There will also be no replies. And how much boasting was with the Khibiny, Krasuha.
          1. gsev
            gsev 7 December 2022 16: 35
            +5
            Quote: YOUR
            . Why don't we have this?

            A good salary in Russian microelectronics 15 years ago, when Chubais ruled it, was 20 rubles. For hairdressers, cosmetologists, pedicurists, over 000 rubles is considered good.
            1. YOUR
              YOUR 7 December 2022 16: 37
              0
              Quote: gsev
              For hairdressers, cosmetologists, pedicurists, over 100 rubles is considered good.

              Where did you get this nonsense from? Maybe in some super trendy spa salons in Moscow, St. Petersburg, there are a couple of such pieces for the whole city and there will be such salaries, God forbid that the rest be enough for food.
              1. gsev
                gsev 7 December 2022 17: 26
                +3
                Quote: YOUR
                Where did you get this nonsense from? Maybe in some super trendy spa salons in Moscow

                My information and on microelectronics from Moscow. For epilation, it is enough to buy the coolest device for 600 rubles in China. One visit is about 000 rubles per client for half an hour. Even if you dump wildly, it’s still like no one takes less than 5000. What engineering business allows such a rate of return with such a minimum investment? Manicure: 1500 rubles are charged per visit. In addition, I'm not talking about losers and losers, but about successful professionals. If a business, even a manicure, even a rocket one, is entrusted to a non-professional without experience like Rogozin, then technological and economic collapse is inevitable. If you have salaries, then it is not realistic to get the biggest ones in large companies. They go there either to make a career as a boss or to gain experience. It is more profitable to automate a wood-burning stove in the middle of nowhere in Russia than to commission CNC machines at Bauman Moscow State Technical University. Accordingly, it is easier to lure a specialist from the machine center of Baumanka than to lure him to Baumanka.
              2. Havoc
                Havoc 7 December 2022 19: 03
                +2
                Quote: YOUR
                Quote: gsev
                For hairdressers, cosmetologists, pedicurists, over 100 rubles is considered good.

                Where did you get this nonsense from? Maybe in some super trendy spa salons in Moscow, St. Petersburg, there are a couple of such pieces for the whole city and there will be such salaries, God forbid that the rest be enough for food.

                And let's count, although it is not good to count other people's money.
                Based on my observations. The shabbiest barbershop in town. A haircut costs 600 rubles, not long ago it cost 550 rubles. They cut for about 20-25 minutes, i.e. 3 people per hour, there is no live queue only by appointment, an average of 1800 rubles per hour, multiply by 7 hours we get 12500 rubles per day, multiply by 25 days we get 315000 rubles per month, we throw out a hundred thousand for rent, we get 215000 rubles for materials. Because masters are all individual entrepreneurs, then the tax is fixed once a quarter, a penny and not any cash registers. Here also consider. And note the working day at 7 hours is the minimum. And on average, a salary of 100000 rubles is real, even for the periphery.
                1. nerd.su
                  nerd.su 7 December 2022 21: 29
                  +3
                  Quote: Havoc
                  . They cut for about 20-25 minutes, i.e. 3 people per hour, there is no live queue only by appointment,

                  Since there is no live queue, then this is a maximum of 2 people per hour. It is necessary after all and "to recover and smoke". Yes, and tea will not hurt to drink. That is already 1200 rubles per hour, we cut off 30% of your calculations. Farther
                  Quote: Havoc
                  multiply by 7 hours we get 12500 rubles per day multiply by 25 days

                  ... when did you ever work as a free person, and not as a soldier or a convict? Six days a week for seven hours ... cool, but for most women, the main workers of this business, it is unrealistic. But well, maybe four shifts of 12 and three days off a week, 25 percent ... But the rest are a maximum of five days a a week for 7 hours, that is, 35 hours x1200 rubles x 20 days = 168. If minus 000 rubles for consumables and rent, then 100000 rubles remain. Yes, but what about a flat tax once a quarter? And why is there no cash register?
                2. gsev
                  gsev 7 December 2022 22: 24
                  0
                  Quote: Havoc
                  we throw out a hundred thousand for rent,

                  If you have a lease of 100, then there are probably 000-3 chairs. What is the problem with diluting perfume with vodka or alcohol? We reduce the cost of consumables by 4 times. In addition, the use of cologne is paid separately and at a price 4 times higher than the cost. The master certainly receives regular customers at home. Here's an additional 4-15000 a month for you.
                  And on average, a salary of 100000 rubles is real, even for the periphery.
                  And the salary of a microelectronics specialist engaged in the development of ADCs and microprocessors for the Lancet family of 100 is unrealistic. In addition, ceteris paribus, a hairdresser can easily leave his workplace, move to another city and find work there within a week. And the designer at a sensitive enterprise under the control of the FSB is forced to travel on business trips. A designer from the Khrunichev plant came to us and told how the FSB officer, when talking to him, boasted of his rights to put handcuffs on him for no reason.
                3. YOUR
                  YOUR 8 December 2022 03: 20
                  +1
                  I understand that one cannot know everything. Look online to see what taxes a sole proprietor pays. What you called
                  Quote: Havoc
                  tax fixed quarterly

                  A patent is called if this type of entrepreneurial activity falls under its action, there may be a general taxation system, maybe according to a simplified scheme. This is the so-called basic tax. The main one is the main one, but not the largest. Then came the monthly personal income tax, insurance premiums here even more atas especially in the pension fund, there are additional taxes once a quarter, once a year. And who told you that hairdressers and manicures work without cash registers? I took Google and here is a list of IPs that can work without cash registers:
                  printed publications and related products;
                  securities;
                  goods on trains;
                  draft soft drinks and ice cream in kiosks;
                  food in educational institutions;
                  kvass, milk, butter, kerosene, live fish from tanks;
                  vegetable products on the ruins;
                  goods at exhibitions, fairs, retail markets;
                  articles for religious purposes in places of worship;
                  shoe repair and painting;
                  acceptance of recyclable materials from the population, except for scrap metal;
                  transfer to paid use of residential premises;
                  production and repair of keys and metal haberdashery;
                  caring for children, the elderly and the sick;
                  plowing gardens and sawing firewood;
                  services for carrying things at airports and train stations;
                  handicrafts sold by the manufacturer.
                  1. 28st region
                    28st region 8 December 2022 03: 59
                    +1
                    From afar you can see who earns how much.
                4. nerovnayadoroga
                  nerovnayadoroga 8 December 2022 22: 30
                  +1
                  And the salary for 218 ARZ for an aircraft engine repairman of the 5th category, six months ago, was 38000 rubles, but it’s better to do a pedicure for the population, and not pick pieces of iron with criminal responsibility for soldering ...
                5. ForWar34
                  ForWar34 8 December 2022 23: 18
                  0
                  3 people per hour without a break, 7 hours a day, 25 days a month, aunts' legs will fall off and their hands will start to cramp. Maybe a month in this mode and you can work as a hairdresser, only the money earned, mainly, will go to medicines. Yes, and customers will start to scatter, if the next one sits on a heated chair in the hair of the previous one, for any reason, a technological break is needed, for cleaning there, and she herself needs rest. And so a taxi driver can raise a lot if you live in a car, but why such a life?
          2. Wedmak
            Wedmak 7 December 2022 16: 38
            +1
            We don't have enough X-31s to throw them at any emitting target. In addition, in the NVO zone there are many identical types of air defense systems in our country and the Armed Forces of Ukraine. What if ours works? And if this is a false goal, are there many of them there too?
            1. YOUR
              YOUR 8 December 2022 03: 32
              +3
              Quote: Wedmak
              And if this is a false goal, are there many of them there too?

              Those. Do you propose not to use these missiles at all?
              Quote: Wedmak
              In addition, in the NVO zone there are many identical types of air defense systems in our country and the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

              Those. our air defense systems can be far beyond the line of contact. How interesting.
              Quote: Wedmak
              We don't have enough X-31s to throw them at any emitting target.

              What is cheaper, a hundred X-31s or one Su-34? And yes, I think that for each radiating target. The Americans handed over such missiles to the Ukrainians, and for some reason they do not hesitate to hit them at our similar targets, but we don’t have missiles in your opinion.
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 8 December 2022 06: 33
                0
                Those. Do you propose not to use these missiles at all?

                Definitely must be applied.
                Those. our air defense systems can be far beyond the line of contact. How interesting.

                Well, in fact, the launch is carried out far in front of the front line, so that the aircraft themselves do not fall under the distribution. And the rocket may well target ours, so they are turned off before launch. That is, there should be a chain of warnings and as short as possible, and not as it is now through the headquarters.
                The rocket is certainly cheaper, but it’s also not worth hitting on every light.
                and for some reason they do not hesitate to hit them at our similar goals

                Why not shoot with rockets issued for free for some reason .. And suddenly, periodically they find fragments of rockets in the city, shot down or stuck in other radiating sources.
                1. YOUR
                  YOUR 8 December 2022 06: 38
                  +4
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  Well, in fact, the launch is carried out far in front of the front line, so that the aircraft themselves do not fall under distribution. And the rocket may well target ours, so they are turned off before launch.

                  Wow. Live a century, learn a century, you will die a fool anyway. I gave the dunce almost 30 years to the army, but it turns out to be from it.
                  Yes, you are a strategist, financier, my friend, however.
                  1. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 8 December 2022 08: 18
                    0
                    I agree, I'm wrong, you know better how to spend ammunition.
                    1. YOUR
                      YOUR 11 December 2022 12: 10
                      +1
                      Quote: Wedmak
                      I agree, I'm wrong, you know better how to spend ammunition.

                      Don't spend, use.
          3. Dart2027
            Dart2027 7 December 2022 19: 36
            0
            Quote: YOUR
            Taking into account the fact that almost all air defense systems in service with Ukraine are Soviet-made. All frequencies are known, but our electronic warfare should have hammered them in the first seconds of the NWO and never let them out of their affectionate embrace.

            It has already been said a million times that they are given target designation by the owners from NATO, and we cannot shoot down their AWACS aircraft.
            1. alexoff
              alexoff 8 December 2022 01: 39
              -1
              Do AWACS aircraft have fixed frequencies? Is it possible for us to put emitters that would shine on them and spoil all their reconnaissance? And in general, in Romania there is a missile defense radar that monitors missile launches and the take-off of strategists, it will be more powerful than AWACS
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 8 December 2022 06: 04
                0
                Quote from alexoff
                Do AWACS aircraft have fixed frequencies? Is it possible for us to put emitters that would shine on them and spoil all their reconnaissance?

                Not a specialist, but duipyu that if everything were so simple, then they would have been abandoned 50 years ago.
                Quote from alexoff
                And in general, in Romania there is a missile defense radar that monitors missile launches and the take-off of strategists, it will be more powerful than AWACS

                And then there are satellites, UAVs, etc. I know.
                1. alexoff
                  alexoff 9 December 2022 00: 42
                  -2
                  But I think that it is possible to spoil enemy AWACS aircraft, of course, this is not a panacea at all, but I think it is realistic to reduce their effective range. In any case, it's worth checking. Especially on those drones that monitor Crimea
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 9 December 2022 18: 28
                    0
                    Quote from alexoff
                    but I think it’s realistic to reduce their effective range

                    Perhaps this is already being done, or perhaps some trump cards are being saved for a rainy day. We will not know the truth, but it is hard to believe that it is possible to completely paralyze the work of NATO intelligence without physical destruction.
                    1. alexoff
                      alexoff 9 December 2022 21: 50
                      -1
                      Well, this practice of our type of hiding for a rainy day is vicious - what if on a rainy day we find out that it does not work? And so let's look at the reaction, at the rednecks to journalists, at the data of our intelligence, maybe we'll finalize something. They train on us and draw conclusions
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 9 December 2022 22: 22
                        0
                        Quote from alexoff
                        suddenly on a rainy day we find out that it does not work

                        It could be, but we can only guess.
            2. 28st region
              28st region 8 December 2022 16: 01
              +1
              Quote: Dart2027
              It has already been said a million times that they are given target designation by the owners from NATO, and we cannot shoot down their AWACS aircraft.

              And how do they do it? I explain, firstly, NATO AWACS aircraft do not fly over Ukraine, if they fly over the territory of neighboring countries, i.e. the range is such that they do not see our planes. But let's see. HOW DO THEY ISSUE TSU ON SAM?
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 8 December 2022 19: 21
                +2
                Quote: 28st region
                HOW DO THEY ISSUE TSU ON SAM?

                Silently. Through starlink and similar information systems, with the help of which they control the Ukrainian army.
                1. 28st region
                  28st region 9 December 2022 04: 27
                  +1
                  Wow, your knowledge is just amazing. And you are aware that approvals are needed. they have one signal encoding on the air defense system is different. Moreover, there are a lot of technical difficulties to the word it is impossible to do this.
                  It is possible to transmit the control center in this particular case only by voice. On air defense. Do you know what it is? A Far Air Situation tablet, such nonsense made of plexiglass, a map with an air defense grid is applied to it, on the reverse side there are tablet players taking data into headphones and drawing. Wild anachronism. But just like that, no other way.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 9 December 2022 18: 29
                    0
                    Quote: 28st region
                    Wow, your knowledge is just amazing. And know what
                    The United States has been preparing Ukraine for at least 8 years? Or do you think that no one there has thought of such a simple idea.
                    1. 28st region
                      28st region 10 December 2022 02: 47
                      +1
                      The fact that the idea is simple, I do not argue how to bring it to life. If you are aware please let me know.
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 10 December 2022 06: 44
                        0
                        Quote: 28st region
                        how to implement it

                        There are specialists for this. Either you need to do something like a translator, which translates the signals into missiles understandable to the "brain", or they are transmitted to anti-aircraft gunners via a separate channel, and they already control regular means.
                      2. 28st region
                        28st region 10 December 2022 10: 41
                        +1
                        Stupid circles have not yet thought of such a simple solution. Yes, the translator is called interface equipment and a modem (modulator demodulator), but that's not working and that's it. How can it not be possible to match and modulate the signal from over-the-horizon radars and over-the-horizon radars for air defense systems. Something like this.
                      3. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 10 December 2022 11: 28
                        -1
                        Quote: 28st region
                        but it doesn't work and that's it
                        Who doesn’t succeed?
                        Quote: 28st region
                        How it is not possible to match and modulate the signal from over-the-horizon radars and over-the-horizon radars to demodulate for air defense systems
                        A couple of months ago, our air defense system launched a missile into a Ukrainian plane from a distance of more than 200 km. They forgot to warn its operators that trans-horizontal guidance was impossible.
                      4. 28st region
                        28st region 10 December 2022 11: 39
                        +1
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        A couple of months ago, our air defense system launched a missile into a Ukrainian plane from a distance of more than 200 km.

                        So what? An old s-200 shot down at a distance of 240 km, so what?
                        What does this have to do with information transmitted from AWACS to Ukrainian air defense systems?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Who doesn’t succeed?

                        No one succeeds, neither with us nor with them.
                      5. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 10 December 2022 12: 47
                        0
                        Quote: 28st region
                        An old s-200 shot down at a distance of 240 km

                        Then why did they write that this is a new world record for the range of shooting down in a real battle?
                        Quote: 28st region
                        No one succeeds, neither with us nor with them.

                        Who said that?
                      6. 28st region
                        28st region 10 December 2022 13: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Then why did they write that this is a new world record for the range of shooting down in a real battle?

                        Yes, the jester knows him. Much has been written and spoken, especially lately. It turns out that in the USSR only galoshes were produced, they also said this. There is nothing surprising in the fact that they shot down at such a range, the pilot climbed to a height of more than 10 km, they found out they shot down. You are aware that the Earth is round, and el.magnetic energy propagates in a straight line, i.e. does not see a target beyond the horizon.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Who said that?

                        I told you. I was prompted by many years of practice and the knowledge gained.
                      7. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 10 December 2022 14: 33
                        -1
                        Quote: 28st region
                        It turns out that in the USSR only galoshes were produced, they also said this.

                        We had a defense industry - cool, strong, and we are still proud of it. We are grateful to our grandfathers and our fathers for creating such a defense industry after the Great Patriotic War.
                        Voice from the audience:
                        - And the first satellite.
                        V. V. Putin:
                        - Both the first satellite and the first man in space are our common pride, these are the achievements of the Soviet regime, of which we are all proud. These are nationwide achievements.
                        But consumer goods... Zhirinovsky has already said this. Where were they? There were none. Let's not lie to each other and the people. The people know what was and what was not.
                        Quote: 28st region
                        the pilot climbed to a height of more than 10 km

                        But I remember that they wrote that they were going at low altitudes.
                        Quote: 28st region
                        I told you.
                        That is, no one.
                      8. 28st region
                        28st region 11 December 2022 03: 53
                        +1
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I told you.
                        That is, no one.

                        Well, from impotence moved to insults.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        But I remember that they wrote that they were going at low altitudes.

                        You can write whatever you want, but did you even study at school? At least something should be remembered.
                        I read that article. It says that the planes approached at low altitude, attacked the enemy, i.e. us again descended to an extremely low height and left, at what height they were at the moment when they were shot down is not written.
                      9. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 11 December 2022 07: 06
                        0
                        Quote: 28st region
                        Well, from impotence passed
                        demagogy. Once again, where does it say? And then they are being built all over the world and none of the specialists doubts, and then someone declares that they all do not understand anything, and he alone knows everything.
                        Quote: 28st region
                        at what height they were at the moment when they were shot down is not written.
                        Then where did 10 km come from?
                        Quote: 28st region
                        All these pairings are too long and tedious to explain.
                        Expected.
                        And, by the way, will the source of the fact that NATO is unable to direct Ukrainian air defense appear?
                      10. 28st region
                        28st region 11 December 2022 11: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Then where did 10 km come from?

                        Kapets!!!! Did you study at school? Do you know that our planet Earth is round? Or for you, it is flat and rests on three elephants that stand on turtles ...
                        In the search engine, type the line-of-sight range in the same place to calculate the line-of-sight range for an altitude of 10 meters.
                        Did you recently finish school? USE?
                      11. 28st region
                        28st region 11 December 2022 12: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And, by the way, will the source of the fact that NATO is unable to direct Ukrainian air defense appear?

                        No, he didn't show up. Do you have a source that this is possible?
                      12. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 11 December 2022 13: 29
                        0
                        Quote: 28st region
                        In the search engine, type the line-of-sight range in the same place to calculate the line-of-sight range for an altitude of 10 meters.

                        That is, there is no information that they climbed to a height of 10 km, and all this is "I want it that way."
                        Quote: 28st region
                        Do you have a source that this is possible?

                        The military has been talking about this for half a year already, and no one there is even trying to deny it.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And then all over the world they are being built and none of the specialists doubts, and then someone declares that they all do not understand anything, and he alone knows everything.
                        Will there be no answer to this?
                      13. YOUR
                        YOUR 11 December 2022 14: 00
                        +1
                        That is, there is no information that they climbed to a height of 10 km and all this is "I want it that way"

                        You know, dear, I read your comments to your opponent, well, you can’t be so uneducated.
                      14. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 11 December 2022 15: 03
                        -1
                        Quote: YOUR
                        I read your comments to your opponent, well, you can’t be so uneducated
                        So how is this known?
                      15. YOUR
                        YOUR 11 December 2022 15: 25
                        +1
                        School had to be taught. Then they would know that the Earth is round, and electromagnetic energy is distributed
                        straightforward.
                      16. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 11 December 2022 16: 11
                        0
                        Quote: YOUR
                        School had to be taught. Then

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, there is no information that they climbed to a height of 10 km, and all this is "I want it that way."

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And then all over the world they are being built and none of the specialists doubts, and then someone declares that they all do not understand anything, and he alone knows everything.

                        And about school, tell me about the same thing about Zircon missiles. The ones that are already flying.
                        And if you remember the university, then one of the teachers once said that in Soviet times there were often cases when some "studied at school" began to write to party organizations, that he supposedly knows that everything is like this, and stupid engineers everyone is doing it wrong. Well, they had to explain to the "schoolboy" that school is good, but not enough.
                        However, you are not trying to assure that the Americans are unable to coordinate the work of Ukrainian air defense - it’s already good.
                      17. YOUR
                        YOUR 12 December 2022 02: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        However, you are not trying to assure that the Americans are unable to coordinate the work of Ukrainian air defense - it’s already good.

                        Are they not trying? How? And you can prove or the same knowledge as for the height of the goal
                      18. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 12 December 2022 19: 43
                        0
                        Quote: YOUR
                        Are they not trying? How?

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Silently. Through starlink and similar information systems, with the help of which they control the Ukrainian army.


                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And about school, tell me about the same thing about Zircon missiles. The ones that are already flying.
                        And if you remember the university, then one of the teachers once said that in Soviet times there were often cases when some "studied at school" began to write to party organizations, that he supposedly knows that everything is like this, and stupid engineers everyone is doing it wrong. Well, they had to explain to the "schoolboy" that school is good, but not enough.
                      19. YOUR
                        YOUR 13 December 2022 02: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Silently. Through starlink and similar information systems, with the help of which they control the Ukrainian army.

                        Can you prove it or is this your next assumption?
                      20. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 13 December 2022 19: 32
                        0
                        Quote: YOUR
                        Can you prove it or

                        Have you not heard the fact that the owner of Starlink himself said in plain text that all control and communications of the Armed Forces of Ukraine goes through his satellite system?

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And about school, tell me about the same thing about Zircon missiles. The ones that are already flying.
                        And if you remember the university, then one of the teachers once said that in Soviet times there were often cases when some "studied at school" began to write to party organizations, that he supposedly knows that everything is like this, and stupid engineers everyone is doing it wrong. Well, they had to explain to the "schoolboy" that school is good, but not enough.
                      21. YOUR
                        YOUR 14 December 2022 02: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Have you not heard the fact that the owner of Starlink himself said in plain text that all control and communications of the Armed Forces of Ukraine goes through his satellite system?

                        Let's say so, let's say. But apparently you don’t understand how management and communication differ from the transmission of digital information. And you still haven't answered where this information comes from. AWACS does not roll
                      22. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 14 December 2022 19: 20
                        0
                        Quote: YOUR
                        But apparently you don’t understand how management and communication differ from the transmission of digital information.

                        Are you trying to say that they do not directly control the missiles themselves? So no one said this - they transmit data for guidance of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and they themselves will provide direct control. But without data from NATO, they have two options - either sit with their radars turned off, that is, do nothing, or quickly become corpses.
                        Quote: YOUR
                        AWACS does not roll
                        AWACS, reconnaissance UAVs, satellites.
                      23. 28st region
                        28st region 11 December 2022 03: 55
                        +1
                        All these pairings are too long and tedious to explain. You still need to have the right education to understand. I'm not going to be engaged in your education, especially for you and for me this is a kind of fleeting communication. Well, you don’t know and don’t know, believe in what is written, believe further.
                      24. The comment was deleted.
            3. YOUR
              YOUR 11 December 2022 13: 30
              +1
              Wow oh you and how do they do it? I will not dwell on technical issues, but here is such a moment of the Boeing E-3 Sentry, aka AWACS, the maximum target detection range against the background of the earth is 400 km, a bomber at an altitude of 500 km. They fly adanka km of commercials for a thousand from the b / d zone.
              Don't make up any nonsense.
          4. Alexander Vorontsov
            Alexander Vorontsov 8 December 2022 20: 51
            +1
            Quote: YOUR
            But for some reason they work. In Iraq, all US aircraft

            1) Ukraine had more air defense than Iraq
            2) The USA had more planes than Russia
            3) The air situation over Ukraine is monitored by NATO flying radars over Poland.

            Hit did not hit is another matter, but forced to turn off.

            And the fact that air defense also shoots and not just "irradiates" you do not take into account?
            As well as the fact that when working from an ambush (on the side at the direction of the aircraft), air defense can work on it, and the aircraft will need to turn.
          5. bayard
            bayard 10 December 2022 08: 17
            0
            Quote: YOUR
            In Iraq, all US aircraft were mandatorily equipped with anti-ship missiles, one or two hung under the wing, and as soon as it was discovered that they were being irradiated by the radar, a launch immediately followed. Hit did not hit is another matter, but forced to turn off.

            Quote: YOUR
            Why don't we have this? There will also be no replies.

            And why answer such a ... strange statement, if from the first day of the SVO all fighters, including the Su-35S, had two X-31 PRLRs at each flight? This was also on the footage of the sorties in the reports, and even during the interrogation of the downed Russian pilot by the crops, he also said that his main task during this sortie was to suppress the air defense system of the PRLR.
            But the air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine operates in the "ambush" mode - according to external target designation from AWACS, including radiation only for capture and launch. So that kind of a duel situation turns out.
            The United States in Vietnam also had total air superiority, but the tactics chosen for the Vietnamese to use air defense systems (from ambushes and constant change of positions) led to heavy losses in American aircraft. And they took lessons from that story.
            Quote: YOUR
            And how much boasting was with the Khibiny, Krasuha.

            On the territory of the Ukrainian SSR there was a developed radio-electronic industry, and the same Zaporozhye plant throughout the post-Soviet period exported wonderful Soviet 19Zh6 radars and their subsequent modifications around the world. New types of radar stations were also created, and the old ones could be modernized in terms of changing the frequency characteristics. In addition, the probing signal usually uses a complex - frequency-code-modified signal, which is very difficult to suppress completely, and in which it is easier to detune from complex interference. In short, the RF Armed Forces might not know for sure what characteristics the real Ukrainian radars have. or they could have faced the fact ... a very unpleasant surprise. Yes, and they turned out to be - in terms of coverage of all radar information on the theater by American and NATO AWACS.
            Which exit ?
            Take direction finding radars and quickly hit them with the help of attack UAVs of the Lancet and Cube classes. What is being done. And quite successfully.
            1. YOUR
              YOUR 13 December 2022 02: 24
              +1
              Quote: bayard
              That's just the air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine operates in the "ambush" mode - according to external target designation from AWACS, including radiation only for capture and launch

              The AWACS detection range is 400 km against the background of the ground of a Su-type target and 500 km of a Tu-160, 90 target.
              In order to give out the control center, he needs to approach the front line by 300-350 kilometers. Can you tell me where they managed to light up over Ukraine?
              1. bayard
                bayard 13 December 2022 09: 29
                0
                From the first days they shine over Romania and Poland, along the border with Ukraine, as well as over the Black Sea. At the same time, not only they are spinning, but also RTR aircraft, which also take direction finding aircraft of military aviation by radiation and give an alert.
                What else ?
                "Kolchuga". In 2014, they were promptly taken out of Donetsk Rubin. I hope there is no need to explain that these are passive location stations?
                And also - a satellite constellation, online monitoring the situation on the theater of operations and all Russian airfields.
                Therefore, the actual Ukrainian radars are switched on only on command. Moreover, the air defense radar. For capturing and hitting a target by external target designation.
                A network-centric control, detection, monitoring and warning system has been built in \ on. Regrettably, the Kremlin allowed this to happen.
                1. YOUR
                  YOUR 13 December 2022 10: 50
                  +1
                  Quote: bayard
                  From the first days they glow over Romania and Poland, along the border with Ukraine, as well as over the Black Sea

                  That's it. Okay, with the curvature of the Earth and the problems that arise, you also have a problem. Sorry for the sluggishness of speech.
                  But then you know how to read a map, look at the distances from your proposed AWACS overflight points.
                  Station of passive location, practically it is a direction finder of radio signals. They watched films where the car drives and the antenna is spinning on its roof. Here they are. At a maximum of 200, well, maybe 400 km and only bearing, well, in the sense of direction, no range, no altitude if it is an air target. Doesn't roll either.
                  1. bayard
                    bayard 13 December 2022 19: 58
                    0
                    Quote: YOUR
                    Okay, with the curvature of the Earth and the problems that arise, you also have a problem.

                    No problem . smile and you ?
                    Did you take into account the flight altitude of the AWACS? smile
                    And for the AWACS modernized at one time, the sensitivity (and, consequently, the line-of-sight range) has grown. therefore, he really sees targets in WWI at 400 - 450 km. , targets at medium altitudes - up to 600 - 650 km. , targets at altitudes of 10 - 12 km. - at a distance of up to 800-850 km. And the EPR of the target also matters.
                    And what was the problem for these machines when our aircraft and the Kyrgyz Republic were detected taking off from airfields in the Crimea, Krasnodar Territory, Belarus? You have not forgotten that the NWO began on several ... much broader fronts, right? What attacked Kyiv from Belarus and through Sumy? That the southwestern group, having taken Kherson on the move, stood for some time near Nikolaev and Krivoy Rog? That a landing operation was being prepared from the sea in the Odessa region? That the Black Sea Fleet was actively operating, blocking Ukrainian ports from the sea? And that all these actions were actively supported by aviation, opening and mowing down air defense? ... And indeed, it mowed down a lot of things.
                    Forgot ?
                    That our pilots, taken prisoner, were shot down over enemy territory, where they mainly hunted air defense systems and Ukrainian aviation?
                    Forgot ?
                    Air maneuverable battles of fighters filmed on a smartphone over Ukraine?
                    Quote: YOUR
                    They watched films where the car drives and the antenna is spinning on its roof. Here they are. At a maximum of 200, well, maybe 400 km and only bearing, well, in the sense of direction, no range, no height

                    Himself not funny?
                    Have you heard of the triangulation method? Also, is the earth round? About stations of the integrated RTR, such as "Kolchuga" or, if earlier and under the USSR - "Ramon"?
                    But the "Ramona" of our OSNAZ group detected international flights (on the adjacent one) seriously earlier than our radars, including high-mountain ones, standing on the very border, detected them. Although the posts of "Ramona" were somewhat deeper (farther from the border) than the radar stations of the RT units of the first line, standing on the very border.
                    Why did it happen so?
                    Why did the "eared ears" from OSNAZ hear the planes passing geopoints and getting in touch with the dispatcher, as well as their radio altimeters, before they rise above the radio horizon?
                    Have you heard anything about the nature of the propagation of radio waves of different lengths in the atmosphere of planet Earth?
                    So "Kolchuga" is a much more modern station (about several posts spaced apart spatially) than the good old "Ramon", which in general was of Czechoslovak production.

                    So the Ukrainian air defense in the current SVO has demonstrated remarkable survivability and resourcefulness, very serious richness, ingenuity, and its integration into the NATO reconnaissance, target designation and early warning systems ... created the very problems for our Aviation that now allow only missiles and UAVs wag their infrastructure from time to time.
                    The biggest problem is that we cannot shoot down, drive out or otherwise get rid of NATO AWACS and RTR aircraft on our theater of operations ... or we don’t want to.
                    And do not forget that "Ukraine" inherited from the USSR THREE air defense armies in the three best military districts. And as you can see, not everything about ... loved, once and after 10 months, NWO remains something to snap at.
                    Quote: YOUR
                    Station of passive location, practically it is a direction finder of radio signals.

                    And therefore, he hears and sees (triangulationally) every plane taking off from Baltimore, from near Rostov, or approaching the line of contact (hundreds of kilometers away) ... And NATO RTR planes to help them.

                    Opportunities and means of the enemy must be known, the degree of danger emanating from them, REALIZE, and take measures to overcome these obstacles on the way to inevitable Victory.
                    This is a serious war (albeit called SVO) with a serious adversary, and it must be taken SERIOUSLY.
      3. matsur
        matsur 7 December 2022 11: 09
        +1
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        Alas, disappointment here too.
        Especially against the backdrop of Konashenkov's victorious reports ...
        PS In Donetsk, 8 were killed, 20 were wounded...How many can you?!

        What, is anyone else listening to him? What's the point? The same will be written in other sources. His mother or wife with children (son, beloved or folder is speaking again) can listen to his every word, or if you just like his voice. I do not understand. Anyone can handle this role, some Katya Andreeva or a lieutenant. But we have a darkness full of generals (I'm afraid more than tanks) and everyone needs to be stuck somewhere.
        1. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 7 December 2022 12: 51
          +1
          Quote from Matsur
          is anyone else listening to it?

          Duc from every iron and kettle .... Well-placed voice, and all day long! belay
      4. svoroponov
        svoroponov 7 December 2022 14: 02
        -3
        Sign up as a volunteer and then they will stop shelling Donetsk. You know how to criticize, prove that you can defend and not just knock on the keyboard.

        Well, about everything. Aviation losses are everywhere, only there is a different attitude towards their coverage. In many Western countries, for such an article, yes, you would not have been imprisoned, but you would have been quietly fired and done everything to bring you to a state of poverty or suicide, and possibly you would have been accused of rape. They do it well there.
        Now for the technique. For this theater of operations, the Soviet, as they are called, ,, old ,, planes are not bad enough, especially since they receive not bad missile weapons, and everything is not so bad with the filling. The Americans fly the B-52 and they don’t consider it bad, just like other F-15s, 16s, 18s, which are approximately the same years of manufacture. The F-35 also did not go far from them in terms of its capabilities, if it left.
        Basically, missile weapons are being improved in terms of their capabilities and purpose, as well as their control.
        Further . Carriers under a strategic arms treaty should be subject to registration. To do this, we and the Americans have agreed on base airfields for their registration via satellites. Therefore, they are not hidden. This, by the way, also applies to mobile installations with nuclear strategic missiles, with which the areas of deployment and movement are drawn.
        Further, over the past 10 years, the raid of fighter pilots has been comparable to the Soviet one. In addition, if the author would inquire about the rank and experience of the pilots, then there are far from lieutenants fighting there. And pilots of the 1st and 2nd classes. No one will let you into the combat zone with a low flight time and without proper training.
        Unfortunately, there are losses. War is war. The reasons may be very different. Airplanes, for example attack aircraft, fly at low altitudes and there are enough birds there, a flock got into the engine and that's it.

        Aircraft repair. Of course, there were rembases in the European part of the USSR, but not on the territory of Russia, mainly, but in the Baltic states and some other republics, which became inaccessible after the collapse of the USSR. Well, you can still write about the article.
        In general, the author took up arms against Surovikin, it seems that he is not on the side of Russia.
        1. OLEG CZIGANOV
          OLEG CZIGANOV 7 December 2022 14: 47
          +11
          As for the rembaz, they made me laugh, but that for 20 years it was impossible to build them on the territory of Russia, everything is explained simply, during this time they only learned to organize beautiful parades and shows, such as tank biathlon, and what really happens in the war zone can be judged by mobilization, what kind of command we have can be judged by the appointments of Shoigu generals in skirts, and the entire Internet is replete with statements from participants about the mess at the front and no one is responsible for this, but the areas are under martial law
          1. svoroponov
            svoroponov 7 December 2022 15: 27
            +2
            So there are plenty of them now. It makes no sense to do them in every area. Moreover, airfields have their own workshops, where much can be replaced or repaired. Engines can also be changed on the spot. Instead of a defective engine or other equipment, if it cannot be repaired on the spot, it is easier to send it to the factory for repair. Well, if you need a complete overhaul or a major modernization of systems, well, then they distill the board to a specialized enterprise or plant.
            So I drove boards to the Baltic states for such actions. But this happened a couple of times in all the time. Almost everything else was done by technicians and specialists on the ground.
          2. gsev
            gsev 7 December 2022 22: 29
            -1
            Quote: OLEG CZIGANOV
            As for the rembaz, they made me laugh, but that in 20 years it was impossible to build them on the territory of Russia

            Where will you find specialists and how will you load them? Without the amount of work, they degrade in a year.
          3. gjkrjdybr50
            gjkrjdybr50 8 December 2022 19: 16
            +1
            Oh how! Six months in VO, and already a cool military specialist was born. From the sofa, into slippers and to the construction of ARZs. Do not forget to write a report to Shoigu so that you are put in charge of this case. And then there are fools (if the program removes, then "stupid people") all around, that's how they didn't think of it!
        2. Dredd10
          Dredd10 7 December 2022 15: 15
          +4
          My friend, write an article, otherwise everything is so bad with us, according to the author, that we need to raise our hands up. Buns squeezed and work!!!
        3. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 7 December 2022 15: 20
          +6
          Quote: svoroponov
          Sign up as a volunteer

          The handwriting shows that you are writing from a trench and under fire...
          PS I have been in reserve since 1969, do you think they will take me?
          1. svoroponov
            svoroponov 7 December 2022 16: 05
            -2
            You, as I understand it, are a man of the old school, a Communist at heart. That's just not necessary to grumble about it in different ways. Who else but the communists destroyed the USSR, hence all our troubles.
            You just go to the zone of operations and not through the draft board. Volunteers are also needed there. If you know how to shoot, then at your age you will get to the front line, there would be a great desire. There, individual fighters, fathers from the LDNR, are fighting at the age of 80.
            Only if you are in poor health, there's nothing you can do about it.
            1. AUL
              AUL 7 December 2022 18: 21
              +4
              Quote: svoroponov
              You just go to the zone of operations and not through the draft board. Volunteers are also needed there. If you know how to shoot, then at your age you will get to the front line, there would be a great desire. There, individual fighters, fathers from the LDNR, are fighting at the age of 80.

              And how can I contact you? Are you already THERE?
              1. svoroponov
                svoroponov 8 December 2022 04: 16
                0
                Yes, from my children to their children, my two are already there. They lived in Russia. They just don't write. .I do not live in Russia, but behind enemy lines. Well, health is bad. I can only provide moral support and spiritual support and debunk fakes about our military. Let it be for now. It is also not a bad benefit to support the discouraged.
        4. Dart2027
          Dart2027 7 December 2022 19: 38
          +1
          Quote: svoroponov
          In general, the author took up arms against Surovikin, it seems that he is not on the side of Russia.

          On the side of the USSR.
          1. svoroponov
            svoroponov 8 December 2022 04: 17
            0
            So the Ukrainians seemed to be on the side of the USSR. So all the same, on whose side is the author?
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 8 December 2022 06: 06
              -2
              Quote: svoroponov
              So on the side of the USSR and the Ukrainians seemed to be

              On the side of those who dream of restoring the attempt to build communism. Well, for this you must first destroy Russia as a state.
              1. aglet
                aglet 8 December 2022 10: 00
                +1
                "Well, for this you must first destroy Russia as a state."
                Russia is successfully destroyed without skomorokhov. his capabilities in this matter are scanty, there are players of a much larger caliber
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 8 December 2022 19: 20
                  +1
                  Quote: aglet
                  Russia is successfully destroyed

                  so "successful" that liberals and communists are bile with anger.
                  1. aglet
                    aglet 9 December 2022 09: 55
                    0
                    "so "successful" that liberals and communists are bile"
                    you live on another planet, dear. Give an example of the construction of something commensurate with BAM, Dneproges, Zil, after all. or is it a disgrace with the planned assembly of a Chinese called a Muscovite, do you consider it a success?
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 9 December 2022 18: 33
                      0
                      Quote: aglet
                      you live on another planet, dear. give an example of building something

                      https://sdelanounas.ru/
                      One of those sites at the mention of which
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      liberals and communists emanate bile from malice
                      1. aglet
                        aglet 10 December 2022 08: 51
                        0
                        "One of those sites at the mention of which"
                        one of those sites that uryapatriots pray to, like an icon, but do not read them. I took, read one piece of news, about buses, to the end. and that's what was found at the end - "The main components - engines, axles and gearboxes are still imported,"
                        that is, they strip the boxes, screw an imported component to it, and call it the production of a domestic bus. about the boxes, I did not specify from whose materials it is twisted, I suppose the ketai was also noted there. I didn’t read the rest of the news, it’s not interesting, and probably also a half-truth, which is worse than a lie
                      2. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 10 December 2022 11: 25
                        0
                        Quote: aglet
                        here's what we found at the end
                        The fact that they write the truth on the site, and if something is made from foreign parts, then it is. But how many people in the USSR wrote about the fact that for the manufacture of propellers for nuclear submarines it was necessary to purchase machine tools in Japan?
                      3. aglet
                        aglet 10 December 2022 11: 52
                        0
                        "How many people in the USSR wrote about the fact that for the manufacture of propellers for nuclear submarines it was necessary to purchase machine tools in"
                        wrote, in science and life, there was such a magazine. but machines for the production of nails, and the nails themselves, were not bought in China. 1k62 tells you something? you can’t grind a shaft for an apl on it, but everything else is easy. shafts for nuclear power plants were made in pieces, it makes no sense to design and make machines for them, it’s easier to buy. and bought. now they make the same shafts on them? Or did you buy new machines?
                      4. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 10 December 2022 12: 46
                        0
                        Quote: aglet
                        shafts for nuclear submarines were made in pieces, it makes no sense to design and make machines for them

                        Firstly, I'm not talking about shafts, but screws. Secondly, does independence in the construction of nuclear submarines make no sense?
                      5. aglet
                        aglet 10 December 2022 13: 13
                        0
                        "Firstly, I'm not talking about shafts, but screws."
                        the screws on the machines are not sharpened, the machines were specifically for turning shafts
                        "Secondly, does independence in the construction of nuclear submarines make no sense?"
                        and now it is, this independence? from whom will we buy the machine this time? the Japanese won't sell
                      6. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 10 December 2022 14: 35
                        0
                        Quote: aglet
                        screws on the machines do not sharpen
                        Well, how are they made, you can find out?
                        Quote: aglet
                        who will we buy the machine from this time
                        That's just it, that no one has.
                      7. aglet
                        aglet 10 December 2022 14: 39
                        0
                        "Well, how are they made, you can find out?"
                        it is possible, by casting, with the subsequent finishing of the profile on the machine, such as milling. but they have it. and in our country, probably, they finish it with a Chinese file, strictly according to technology - after assembly, process it with a file
                      8. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 11 December 2022 06: 59
                        0
                        Quote: aglet
                        possible, by casting, with subsequent finishing of the profile on the machine
                        Hmm ... Any part is first cast, and then finished on the machine, the only question is the quality of processing. And everything depends on this processing - at the slightest inaccuracy, the nuclear submarines will be heard by everyone around.
                      9. aglet
                        aglet 11 December 2022 16: 53
                        0
                        "Any part is cast first"
                        far from any, but the screws are cast
                        "And everything depends on this processing - at the slightest inaccuracy, the nuclear submarines will be heard by everyone around."
                        a screw, even with a distorted surface, does not affect the noise as much as a crooked shaft overloading the bearings, which is why they howl
                      10. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 11 December 2022 19: 24
                        0
                        Quote: aglet
                        far from any, but the screws are cast

                        Now there are printers that print them, but basically everything is made from more or less suitable castings.
                        Quote: aglet
                        does not affect noise as much as a crooked shaft

                        With a curved shaft, the nuclear submarine will not be able to walk at all, but the shaft is a larger and at the same time simpler part.
                      11. aglet
                        aglet 12 December 2022 10: 40
                        0
                        "With a curved shaft, the nuclear submarine will not be able to walk at all, but the shaft is larger and at the same time a simpler part."
                        curve, I mean, made to large tolerances on an inaccurate machine. here they are (bearings), and howled until they bought machines in Japan
                        "Now there are printers that print them"
                        where are these printers, who has seen them? we definitely don’t have them, and it won’t be soon, if at all. centrifugal mold casting is much simpler and with sufficient quality
                      12. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 12 December 2022 19: 42
                        -1
                        Quote: aglet
                        where are these printers, who has seen them?

                        They will not grow to the level of manufacturing of such parts soon, if you mean it.
                        Quote: aglet
                        curve, I mean, made to large tolerances on an inaccurate machine. here they are (bearings), and howled until they bought machines in Japan
                        No, the manufacture of shafts does not require such complexity of work, so they could be made on their own, but screws with complex geometry are another level.
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a7Htl9Lcdg (42:54)
                      13. aglet
                        aglet 13 December 2022 11: 48
                        0
                        "Yes, no, the manufacture of shafts does not require such complexity of work"
                        it is the shafts, which do not have sufficient manufacturing accuracy, that make the bearings howl. in the USSR there were no machines for processing parts of this size with the required accuracy, it is long and expensive to develop your own, especially since these shafts need at least a dozen per year. That's why I bought it in Japan.
                        propellers have been made since the 19th century, there is nothing super duper fancy, the equipment and technologies are very simple. And by the way, this video is about nothing
                      14. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 13 December 2022 19: 31
                        0
                        Quote: aglet
                        it is the shafts, which do not have sufficient manufacturing accuracy, that make the bearings howl

                        That's just the technology of the 19th century.
                        Quote: aglet
                        propellers have been made since the 19th century, there is nothing super duper fancy, the equipment and technologies are very simple. And by the way, this video is about nothing
                        Just the words of the general director of one of the 2 design bureaus that design nuclear submarines.
                        and screws in the 19th century are purely for the movement of the ship, while no acoustic requirements were imposed on them.
        5. Yura
          Yura 7 December 2022 21: 19
          -1
          Quote: svoroponov
          the impression that he is not on the side of Russia.

          I wanted to put a plus, but my hand twitched and minus, I corrected it right away, sorry.
        6. flicker
          flicker 7 December 2022 22: 56
          -1
          Aviation losses are everywhere
          Which is right. For example:
          224 dead, 186 aircraft and helicopters for a total of $11.6 billion - these are the non-combat losses of the US Air Force over the past seven years. This is stated in the report of the National Commission on Military Aviation Safety, which was presented to Congress, the President and the public in early December.
          From 2013 to 2018, the US military aviation lost 6000 aircraft of various types and 157 pilots in 198 accidents. The cost of the lost aircraft was $9,4 billion.
          In 2019-2020, another 29 aircraft were lost, resulting in the death of another 26 pilots. The cost of damage was $2,25 billion.

          As you can see, they have much more accidents, but there are much fewer whiners.
      5. Sid2014
        Sid2014 7 December 2022 16: 52
        -2
        What are you speaking about?! This will go on forever. Who and when felt sorry for the Russian people? (Remember the story) It is for an American that half of the country can be demolished. So stop wringing your hands and shedding tears. This will!!!
      6. sergkhag
        sergkhag 11 December 2022 16: 44
        0
        It looks like we have one Konashenkov and he is fighting.
    2. Evil 55
      Evil 55 7 December 2022 06: 44
      +36
      I was always surprised how a person who had the education of an officer of the ground forces received the post of commander-in-chief of the VKS .. hi
      1. Aerodrome
        Aerodrome 7 December 2022 06: 48
        +62
        Quote: Evil 55
        I was always surprised how a person who had the education of an officer of the ground forces received the post of commander-in-chief of the VKS .. hi

        that is, Shoigu, does it bother you? and Rogozin, and Mutko, etc., etc., etc. ...
        1. Evil 55
          Evil 55 7 December 2022 07: 13
          +22
          The fact of the matter is that the Necessary, Important and Amateurs rule the modern world .. hi Literacy, Consistency and Reasonable decisions in it have long been no longer a worthy place.
      2. svp67
        svp67 7 December 2022 07: 44
        +6
        Quote: Angry 55
        I was always surprised how a person who had the education of an officer of the ground forces received the post of commander-in-chief of the VKS.

        Then remember Army General Ivan Moiseevich Tretyak, Commander of the USSR Air Defense Forces
        1. Reklastik
          Reklastik 7 December 2022 07: 53
          -2
          Then remember about Army General Ivan Moiseevich Tretyak
          - is this from Hollywood films about evil Russians, such as "Ivan Piotr" or "Yuri Petrovna"? laughing
          1. Paul Siebert
            Paul Siebert 7 December 2022 11: 31
            +2
            Quote: Reklastik
            is it from Hollywood films about evil Russians, like "Ivan Piotr" or "Yuri Petrovna"?

            - What is your evidence?
      3. Machito
        Machito 7 December 2022 08: 21
        +31
        Quote: Evil 55
        I was always surprised how a person who had the education of an officer of the ground forces received the post of commander-in-chief of the VKS .. hi

        Actually not surprised at all. It would not even surprise me if the VKS was commanded by a submariner. So what? The main thing is that he should be an effective manager. It's like this everywhere: Shoigu is the Minister of Defense, Kiriyenko is in charge of Rosatom, and so on. To list all the brilliant leaders does not make sense. Is it possible to single out the former head of Roskosmos separately: the journalist Rogozin. How vividly and colorfully he told fellow citizens about how spaceships would surf the Bolshoi Theater. Efremov, with his Andromeda Nebula, just nervously smokes on the sidelines.
        It's just that the country has such a personnel policy that amateurs are in charge everywhere. Cadres now do not solve anything (tea is not living under Stalin). The main thing is connections, relatives, money.
        Corruption will ruin this country. (C) The trust that burst.
        1. dnestr74
          dnestr74 7 December 2022 08: 51
          +11
          Quite right, the athletes sit in the State Duma, it’s even worse in the field, it’s impossible to become a boss, they appoint left-wing people who are generally non-professional educated.
        2. PROXOR
          PROXOR 7 December 2022 10: 46
          +8
          Quote: Bearded
          Corruption will ruin this country. (C) The trust that burst.

          And for an hour these are not the words of Black Jack from the movie The Man from the Boulevard des Capucines.
        3. matsur
          matsur 7 December 2022 11: 12
          +1
          Corruption will ruin this country. (C) The trust that burst.

          Man from the Boulevard des Capucines.
        4. Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira
          Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira 7 December 2022 11: 36
          +6
          Exactly! And nepotism!
          I once wrote about how everything is organized:
          Dad, a literary critic, is in charge of the cosmo-institute for the production of starships. His son, a supermanager diploma from the Uryupinsk branch of MGIMO, manages the institute of spacesuits, and their mother and wife are the chief economic director of the interdepartmental space cash desk, where he personally distributes money for the needs of his Family.
          As a result: Papa - the newest private space bank "Constellation" with exclusive rights to cosmobablo formation, son - the United Space Corporation of Russia in the form of an LLC and 10 rupees of authorized capital, and mama's laundry, nail salon and a lifetime right to cut the deputies of the State Duma.
          YOU ask, what about the Cosmos, the space program ?! And the Cosmos-myriads of Stars, Galaxies and the infinitely long and free Milky Way ...........
          This is how we live, looking out of the trench and looking for the enemy in the "Scout" periscope
        5. solar
          solar 7 December 2022 11: 44
          +1
          Remember, gentlemen: this country will be destroyed by corruption.© The Man from the Boulevard des Capucines
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. mivmim
            mivmim 7 December 2022 13: 05
            +2
            By the way, Boyarsky in this film meant the United States. I fully agree with him.
            1. solar
              solar 7 December 2022 13: 13
              +3
              Not Boyarsky, but the bandit Black Jack, the character he played.
              Well, perhaps at that time it did not concern the USSR. And do not care that the Union did not know that there is no Capuchin Boulevard, but there is Capuchin Boulevard. But they did not know about corruption either. And Dunno on the Moon was considered fiction. And now we know about both.
        6. nickname7
          nickname7 7 December 2022 12: 12
          +2
          Corruption will ruin this country

          Yes, corruption is in full bloom
        7. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 7 December 2022 12: 53
          +1
          Quote: Bearded
          We have everywhere like this:

          Leningrad regional committee is working! what
      4. Alex_mech
        Alex_mech 7 December 2022 10: 53
        -13
        Well, this (education) does not matter. He does not personally provide everything. His job is to demand from subordinates that "it be provided" at the "proper level" and you don't even need to invent anything, everything has long been described. Get a tutorial and do it. The task of the commander is the appointment! Here education is not important, here you need to understand people and appoint not those who are nice and pretty, but those who have proven their abilities by work.
      5. quolta
        quolta 7 December 2022 12: 43
        +7
        I'm embarrassed to ask, but who is the Minister of Defense by education?)))
      6. svoroponov
        svoroponov 7 December 2022 14: 17
        -4
        Take a training course at the Air Force Academy if you're with more management experience. The principles are similar, the difference is in terminology. Yes, it’s bad that it’s not flying, but if you have a competent team of managers, former and acting subordinates, pilots, then this is smoothed out over time in command.
        You, for example, after graduation, are sent to an enterprise in one specialty, and you are offered another but similar one. For a while you experience difficulties, but your training, advanced training courses, time and experience gained at the enterprise do their job. You, if you wish, become a good specialist in a slightly different specialty or direction than according to a diploma, if you are not fired due to incompetence or you yourself understand that production is not your path. So it is with commanders.
        1. View from the outside
          View from the outside 7 December 2022 20: 41
          +1
          I doubt that in the USA admirals lead the Navy, and the generals of the US Army lead the Air Force (well, thank God not
          "cosmic/galactic") forces
          1. Vasia
            Vasia 7 December 2022 23: 42
            -1
            Quote: Side view
            I doubt that in the USA admirals lead the Navy, and the generals of the US Army lead the Air Force (well, thank God not "space / galactic") forces

            Come on, in Europe, gynecologists become defense ministers, they also go for promotion hi
            1. View from the outside
              View from the outside 8 December 2022 00: 01
              0
              I know that, but learn to read. And understand. I wrote specifically about the United States. And do not interfere, Vasya, in someone else's conversation
              1. Vasia
                Vasia 8 December 2022 01: 36
                0
                Quote: Side view
                I know that, but learn to read. And understand. I wrote specifically about the United States.

                You wrote about the USA, I wrote about Europe, what's the problem? Why on earth, if you cite the US as an example, you cannot cite Europe as an example?
                And do not interfere, Vasya, in someone else's conversation

                You yourself got into someone else's conversation svoroponov (Vyacheslav) with Evil 55 (Evgeniy Kuznetsov), who in turn answered SaLaR (Analogues Unavailable Troops)fool
                Here, in general, all comments are a conversation of someone with someone, do you always ask permission before writing?fool Nothing noticeable. Get the log out of your eye, smart guy.
      7. dobrynin
        dobrynin 7 December 2022 15: 57
        +1
        And what kind of education does the Minister of Defense have, were you not interested?
        1. boriz
          boriz 7 December 2022 21: 38
          +1
          And here are the last three heads of the Wehrmacht: a gynecologist, a lawyer, a lawyer.
      8. YOUR
        YOUR 7 December 2022 15: 59
        0
        So the planes line up like tanks in the park.
        1. View from the outside
          View from the outside 7 December 2022 20: 44
          -2
          Yes, they line up wing to wing, as in June 41 ...
      9. AUL
        AUL 7 December 2022 18: 54
        +1
        Quote: Angry 55
        I was always surprised how a person who had the education of an officer of the ground forces received the post of commander-in-chief of the VKS ..

        Do not have 100 rubles, but have 100 friends, especially at the top! (Folk wisdom)
      10. sergkhag
        sergkhag 11 December 2022 16: 46
        -1
        And you were not surprised when the furniture maker became the Minister of Defense. That's where everything started.
    3. IT Analyst
      IT Analyst 7 December 2022 07: 56
      -3
      Do not point the punk, more sorties - more emergency. Combat aircraft operate at extreme loads and, accordingly, cannot be as reliable as the civilian fleet. Google the non-combat losses of the "probable enemy", since now you don't have to go to the library for this: "in the period 2006-18, in the United States and seven dozen other countries of the world, as well as in the waters of all the oceans of the planet, the Pentagon in a non-combat situation lost almost three (!) times more - 11341 people"
      1. svp67
        svp67 7 December 2022 08: 16
        +12
        Quote: AnalystIT
        Do not point the punk, more sorties - more emergency

        Well, you definitely don’t need to panic, but there’s already a lot of CONCERN
        Quote: AnalystIT
        in the period 2006-18, on the territory of the United States and seven dozen other countries of the world, as well as in the waters of all the oceans of the planet, the Pentagon lost almost three (!) times more in a non-combat situation - 11341 people "

        You are providing incorrect information. These are the total losses of the US Army

        Total losses of US troops from 2006 to 2018. OCO - losses in Afghanistan and Iraq, NON-OCO - losses in other regions, including non-combat broken down by years.
        1. malyvalv
          malyvalv 7 December 2022 10: 15
          +2
          Little stick in 2018 because the data is at the beginning of May 2018. By the end of the year, they probably pulled up to the average values. In total, if the columns are added up, then just 11 thousand will turn out.
          1. svp67
            svp67 7 December 2022 21: 31
            -1
            Quote: malyvalv
            In total, if the columns are added up, then just 11 thousand will turn out.

            I did not question the total number, but the fact that they were all non-combat
        2. svoroponov
          svoroponov 7 December 2022 16: 32
          +2
          Americans believe any question, any answer.
          They, the Pentagon, are not able to audit and reconcile the property of their troops, and you are talking about schedules. If there is no documentary evidence from the enemy, then they can easily hide it. An example is Yugoslavia. 2 F-117s were shot down there, but one fell on the Yugoslav side, it was written to recognize it, and the second fell on the side of one of the NATO members (shot down by the MiG-29), the Americans have not yet recognized its loss. So she is such an American military statistics.
      2. YOUR
        YOUR 7 December 2022 16: 01
        0
        Urrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Worthy remark, they have more drops and non-combat losses are higher
    4. huntsman650
      huntsman650 7 December 2022 08: 21
      +4
      Nothing personal business. And also eyewash and parades!
    5. smart ass
      smart ass 7 December 2022 10: 24
      -1
      It seems that the SVO opened all the abscesses on the body of the army?
    6. Sergey39
      Sergey39 7 December 2022 12: 51
      -1
      Tell me who killed the Navy? What actions!
      And tell us what is actually going on with the Navy!
      Another detractor, it looks like the guys are working for the enemy and a lot of them settled here. Trying to undermine society in a hybrid war!
      1. Skif
        Skif 7 December 2022 21: 04
        +1
        "Them", here on this resource, really settled a lot. And the activity of the dill tribe increases in those days when there is a respite in the work of the Russian Aerospace Forces. And it decreases significantly on other days. This is such a strange paradox.
    7. Foundling
      Foundling 7 December 2022 16: 11
      -3
      So Putin understood the army. For 10 years, this trend has been around here. And it's like that. Galosh in fact.
    8. The comment was deleted.
    9. isv000
      isv000 11 December 2022 15: 20
      0
      Quote: SaLaR
      The navy was finished off, we will finish off and the air soldier

      We'll drink everything, but we won't disgrace the fleet! soldier drinks
  2. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 7 December 2022 05: 31
    +49
    The war, Mr. Skomorokhov, is generally a very cruel test. In Israel, for example, after the brilliant success of 67, there was rest on our laurels, and as a result, in 73, in 23 days of the Doomsday War, our Air Force lost 102 aircraft and 67 pilots and navigators. So the loss of the Aerospace Forces, according to the British Ministry of Defense, for 10 months of war with a fairly strong air defense of Ukraine, only 60 aircraft and 50 helicopters, is just an indicator of a competent approach to saving material and human resources.
    After all, there is nothing easier than throwing infantry at machine guns, and aviation at unopened air defense, but is there any point in this?
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 7 December 2022 06: 45
      +10
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      The war, Mr. Skomorokhov, is generally a very cruel test.

      hi
    2. svp67
      svp67 7 December 2022 07: 46
      +7
      hi
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      only 60 aircraft and 50 helicopters is just an indicator of a competent approach to saving material and human resources.

      You just don’t say this in a conversation with Ukrainians, they have long had three-digit numbers of our downed planes and helicopters there
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 7 December 2022 10: 53
        0
        Quote: svp67
        hi
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        only 60 aircraft and 50 helicopters is just an indicator of a competent approach to saving material and human resources.

        You just don’t say this in a conversation with Ukrainians, they have long had three-digit numbers of our downed planes and helicopters there

        Why not speak? I prefer third party data.
        1. Blackgrifon
          Blackgrifon 7 December 2022 17: 47
          +1
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          I prefer third party data.

          I agree. But the question is: is it worth believing countries that directly sponsor one of the parties? For example, the statements of the British that the Ukrainians lost a little more than 6 rounds in the first 60 months, and filled several hundred only cause Homeric laughter. This is not a remark or an attempt at holivar, but, IMHO, that the statements of the British, that ukrov, that of our Defense Ministry, that the oryxes all pursue their own goals. And more or less real numbers of losses can be seen only after the end of the NWO.
  3. Comrade
    Comrade 7 December 2022 05: 39
    +33
    Residents of Engels write on social networks that the city has a decent number of refugees from Ukraine. Some of them were seen with Ukrainian flags and pro-Ukrainian yells.

    It turns out that they warmed the snake on their chest?
    Under Stalin, they would have acted decisively and swiftly. Five minutes to get ready, all the screamers and flag-bearers would have been taken out in trains to the border with Ukraine and pushed out there.
    Let there be "filtering" and "de-Russification" at the same time.
    Alas, over the past decades, the country's muscles have atrophied, and the brains are overgrown with fat. In a good way, the demonstration of the Ukrainian flag on the territory of Russia and chants like "Glory to Ukraine" should long ago be equated with extremism, with the corresponding organizational conclusions. Throw a couple of screamers into the bullpen for a week, the rest will quickly shut up.
    Here in Ukraine, not only for the Russian flag, but for the St. George ribbon, you can get a real term.
    1. alekseykabanets
      alekseykabanets 7 December 2022 08: 35
      +20
      Quote: Comrade
      Under Stalin, they would have acted decisively and swiftly. Five minutes to get ready, all the screamers and flag-bearers would have been taken out in trains to the border with Ukraine and pushed out there.

      Under Stalin, they would not have started at all with this.)))) Then with what they would have started under Stalin, "our" top would not have liked at all.
      1. runway-1
        runway-1 7 December 2022 08: 51
        +5
        Greetings! hi
        Yes, you know, then "grenades were of a different system", the current gentlemen did not like it at all ...
      2. alexey sidykin
        alexey sidykin 7 December 2022 17: 32
        -3
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        Under Stalin, they would not have started at all with this.)))) What they would have started with under Stalin, "our" top would not have liked at all

        You wouldn't like it either... critics got a one-way ticket there.
        1. alekseykabanets
          alekseykabanets 7 December 2022 18: 05
          +2
          Quote: Alexey Sedykin
          You wouldn't like it either... critics got a one-way ticket there.

          That's where I would like it.))))

          Vladimir Mayakovsky

          About rubbish

          Glory, glory, glory to the heroes!!!

          However, the
          them
          paid enough tribute.
          Now
          let's talk
          about rubbish.

          The storms of revolutionary bosoms have calmed down.
          The Soviet hodgepodge turned into mud.
          And got out
          from behind the RSFSR
          mug
          tradesman.

          (You won't take me at my word,
          I am not at all against the bourgeois class.
          Philistines
          without distinction of classes and estates
          my praise.)

          From all the immense Russian fields,
          from the first day of Soviet birth
          they flocked,
          hastily changed feathers,
          and sat down in all institutions.

          Naked from a five-year sitting ass,
          strong as washbasins,
          live to this day -
          quieter than water.
          Cozy offices and bedrooms were built.

          And in the evening
          this or that m_r_a_z_b,
          on the wife
          studying at the piano, looking,
          He speaks,
          from the samovar unwinding:
          "Comrade Nadia!
          An increase for the holiday -
          24 thousand.
          Rate.
          Oh,
          and I'll take myself
          pacific galifis,
          to out of pants
          peep out
          like a coral reef!”
          And Nadia:
          “And me with dress emblems.
          Without a sickle and a hammer you will not appear in the world!
          In what
          today
          I will figure
          at a ball in the Revolutionary Military Council?!”
          On the wall Marx.
          Ala frame.
          On "Izvestia" lying, the kitten is heated.
          And from under the ceiling
          squealed
          rabid canary.

          Marx looked from the wall, looked...
          And suddenly
          opened his mouth
          yes, how to scream:
          “The threads of the philistine revolution have entangled them.
          Philistine life is more terrible than Wrangel.
          Rather
          roll the heads of the canaries -
          so communism
          was not beaten by canaries! "
          [1920-1921]

          But you, I'm afraid not.
          1. alexey sidykin
            alexey sidykin 7 December 2022 18: 11
            -2
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            But you, I'm afraid not.

            So I meant you... not myself. I do not climb with criticism where I do not understand, unlike some. And I am not an expert in all areas of life. Although I think you would have behaved much quieter under Stalin so that they would not fly in ...
            1. alekseykabanets
              alekseykabanets 7 December 2022 18: 34
              +1
              Quote: Alexey Sedykin
              I do not climb with criticism where I do not understand, unlike some.

              Well, how can you criticize the bosses then, they know better, don't they? Yes, and "fly" can.
              Quote: Alexey Sedykin
              Although I think you would have behaved much quieter under Stalin so that they would not fly in ...

              And Stalin's policy would suit me in almost everything, and with what I would not agree, I would write like that. There was more openness under Lenin and Stalin (before the war) than today.
              1. alexey sidykin
                alexey sidykin 8 December 2022 10: 05
                0
                Quote: aleksejkabanets
                Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                I do not climb with criticism where I do not understand, unlike some.

                Well, how can you criticize the bosses then, they know better, don't they? Yes, and "fly" can.
                Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                Although I think you would have behaved much quieter under Stalin so that they would not fly in ...

                And Stalin's policy would suit me in almost everything, and with what I would not agree, I would write like that. There was more openness under Lenin and Stalin (before the war) than today.

                You are a naive person. I would look at you if you began to criticize Tymoshenko, Voroshilov or Mekhlis ... after how long would the competent authorities come to you.
                1. alekseykabanets
                  alekseykabanets 8 December 2022 14: 45
                  -1
                  Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                  You are a naive person. I would look at you if you began to criticize Tymoshenko, Voroshilov or Mekhlis ...

                  The competent authorities then came not for criticizing certain characters, but for some specific actions. For example, the favorite philosopher of the current "Guarantor" - the fascist Ilyin, instead of "anointing his forehead with brilliant green" was sent on a "philosophical ship". And Ilyin, by the way, did not even speak against any specific characters, but against the Soviet system.
                  1. alexey sidykin
                    alexey sidykin 8 December 2022 17: 53
                    0
                    You do not know when there was a "philosophical ship"?
    2. engineer74
      engineer74 7 December 2022 09: 19
      +8
      Quote: Comrade
      Residents of Engels write on social networks that the city has a decent number of refugees from Ukraine. Some of them were seen with Ukrainian flags and pro-Ukrainian yells.

      It turns out that they warmed the snake on their chest?
      Under Stalin, they would have acted decisively and swiftly. Five minutes to get ready, all the screamers and flag-bearers would have been taken out in trains to the border with Ukraine and pushed out there.
      Let there be "filtering" and "de-Russification" at the same time.
      Alas, over the past decades, the country's muscles have atrophied, and the brains are overgrown with fat. In a good way, the demonstration of the Ukrainian flag on the territory of Russia and chants like "Glory to Ukraine" should long ago be equated with extremism, with the corresponding organizational conclusions. Throw a couple of screamers into the bullpen for a week, the rest will quickly shut up.
      Here in Ukraine, not only for the Russian flag, but for the St. George ribbon, you can get a real term.

      It is a senseless and socially dangerous occupation to expel screamers - they will clean their snout anyway. smile
      And full-time agents and saboteurs are now very diligently demonstrating loyalty to Russia, maybe they have already submitted documents to the EP, and are waiting for a signal ... sad
      IMHO hi
      1. UAZ 452
        UAZ 452 7 December 2022 11: 32
        -3
        It is unfortunate that on the eve of February 24, it seems that there was not a single person with brains among those who made that fateful decision who would have requested lists of our senior command staff of the army and navy, civilian leadership, lists of an arbitrarily chosen military unit, and counted how many among them Ukrainian surnames. Maybe someone would get something.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 7 December 2022 11: 41
          +4
          Why are you taking bread from counterintelligence. In general, if we judge a person by his last name, then do we not sink to the level of country 404?
        2. Blackgrifon
          Blackgrifon 7 December 2022 20: 20
          +1
          Quote: UAZ 452
          It is unfortunate that on the eve of February 24, it seems that there was not a single person with brains among those who made that fateful decision who would have requested lists of our senior command staff of the army and navy, civilian leadership, lists of an arbitrarily chosen military unit, and counted how many among them Ukrainian surnames. Maybe someone would get something.

          It's really a pity that idiots with such proposals are not jailed enough. But why plant? It is necessary to treat.
        3. Just a visitor.
          Just a visitor. 7 December 2022 20: 32
          0
          It seems that in Ukraine there is not a single Russian in the leadership of the country and the command staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. And we have Ukrainians broke into power. a Ukrainian without stripes is like hell without testicles.
      2. Comrade
        Comrade 8 December 2022 03: 53
        +1
        Quote: engineer74
        It is a senseless and socially dangerous occupation to expel screamers - they will clean their snout anyway. smile

        In fact, you may be right, however, take into account the following circumstance.
        If the screamers are not shut up today or, even better, not driven out, tomorrow the people will begin to get the impression that the government is helpless. And skepticism towards the authorities, and even in the current conditions, will play the role of a catalyst for the decomposition of society.
        The authorities should demonstrate strength, and not look complacently at the refugees running around Engels with yellow and blue flags shouting "Glory to Ukraine."
        Let us recall the film "Born by the Revolution", how in Moscow in the winter of XNUMX an agitator was detained who told people how cultured Germans are.
        He was taken into the yard, sentenced, and immediately executed.
    3. Eule
      Eule 7 December 2022 12: 01
      0
      Quote: Comrade
      in Ukraine, not like the Russian flag

      But just a theoretical question from an amateur writer:
      If someone in Kyiv with a tricolor flag says that he has the symbols of an auxiliary unit of the Wehrmacht, namely the "Vlasov army", in which the Bandera people served - how will they react?
      1. Comrade
        Comrade 8 December 2022 04: 09
        0
        Quote: eule
        If someone in Kyiv with a tricolor flag says that he has the symbols of an auxiliary unit of the Wehrmacht, namely the "Vlasov army", in which the Bandera people served - how will they react?

        If you're very lucky, you'll just have to answer the standard question: "Whose Crimea?" (correct answer: "Crimea is Ukraine").
        And if you are not lucky and run into former ATO-shnikov or "Azov" from under the conditional Mariupol, they can beat to death or immediately shoot / stab without hesitation. They won't understand or listen.
        Well, unless you get on your knees and start singing "Ukraine Has Not Yet Died". This is not an exaggeration, the people there went berserk. Today I read comments on one Ukrainian site under an article that says that a resident of Ukraine was given three years in prison for reposting a comment by Margarita Simonyan.
        The most "soft" commentator demanded "to take the legs and head on the asphalt."

        In addition, they believe there that Bandera fought the Wehrmacht for "independent Ukraine" all the way. So if you start to argue the opposite, they will consider you a troll and start beating you. And when they get tired, they will hand over to the cops. Those, if they are in a good mood, just cuff and start a case. If you do not pay off - you will sit down for five years.

        Your question was considered provocative and they put two "minuses", I "neutralized" one.
    4. nickname7
      nickname7 7 December 2022 12: 25
      +3
      Under Stalin

      Under Stalin, there were other mistakes, after the Second World War, when half of the country lay in ruins, cement, meat, grain were driven by echelons to Poland-hyena, why did they do it? It was necessary to build to provide for ourselves first, and then no one would be offended by pure pragmatism.
      It’s just that there is a list and an absolutely gigantic amount of goods and materials was delivered to Poland, and this policy of robbing oneself predetermined the collapse of the USSR.
      1. Comrade
        Comrade 8 December 2022 04: 29
        0
        Quote: nickname7
        Under Stalin, there were other mistakes, after the Second World War, when half of the country lay in ruins, cement, meat, grain were driven by echelons to Poland-hyena, why did they do it? We had to build to provide for ourselves first

        Good question, right.
        But then you can go further and ask why so many plants and factories, power plants and houses were built in Ukraine? As a result, the Ukrainians and other Balts turned out to be worse than the Poles.
        And after all, they built it at the expense of Russia. I myself am from Ukraine, and when the shelves in our stores were full in the early 80s, relatives from Rybinsk and Astrakhan came and talked about pasta and soap using coupons that were issued at the factories. And it was still Brezhnev who was alive. Yes, in Moscow and Leningrad they lived perfectly, but in the outback?
        They walked around and were all surprised that we had free butter - "Sandwich" at 3,10 and "Cream" at 3,40. No one gets in line behind him. Cooperative stores are full of "Moscow" sausages, only one and a half rubles more expensive than in state-owned stores. But it was not to be found in the state ones, but in the cooperative ones it lay freely.
        The Poles were fed because, like the Ukrainians, they naively wanted to tame them. And they sometimes took grubs from Moscow, while they themselves dreamed of lying near Washington. What we are seeing today.
    5. dementor873
      dementor873 7 December 2022 13: 59
      0
      They act for the sake of results, we act for the sake of the process itself.
    6. dobrynin
      dobrynin 7 December 2022 16: 03
      -1
      As for the timing, I don't know. But something else you can get easily!
  4. Mikhail Maslov
    Mikhail Maslov 7 December 2022 05: 45
    +21
    It’s very bad, the Navy, the Aerospace Forces, we are suffering losses due to the mess. As far as the material of the article corresponds to reality, I’m sure things are even worse than Roman describes. Will they hit the nuclear power plant? There was nowhere else to write when they sank the Moscow, struck at Belgorod, on the Crimean bridge, and what, but silence in response.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 7 December 2022 07: 00
      +3
      And what, and in response, silence.

      What answer are you waiting for?
      1. Machito
        Machito 7 December 2022 08: 32
        -4
        Quote: Wedmak
        And what, and in response, silence.

        What answer are you waiting for?

        ISIS UAV strike on Buckingham Palace, for example. You can think of a lot of asymmetric things. In the USSR, special services knew how to conduct covert operations. And now no one can really smear the doorknob with a Novice.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 7 December 2022 08: 58
          +4
          Very funny. And pointless. Do you want to unleash a full-fledged war with NATO? If the whole of NATO comes down on us seriously, we will not be able to stand it and we will have to use nuclear weapons. What it threatens, I think it is not necessary to explain.
          We can level Bankova in Kyiv to the level of foundations within a few hours, but what will it give? In addition to the official declaration of war on Ukraine. Are you impatient to go to the front in full mobilization and in the prospect of a war with all of Europe?
          1. Igor_Lvovich
            Igor_Lvovich 7 December 2022 12: 54
            -4
            And why are you so shy? Who scared you so much? They will whine under the bench! And they will cry so that they are not offended.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 7 December 2022 13: 03
              +2
              As I understand it, you are not afraid of a war with NATO. Will you go to the trenches first? Or will you storm Upper Lars?
              1. Igor_Lvovich
                Igor_Lvovich 8 December 2022 09: 10
                0
                To be afraid of NATO is a shame. Be afraid silently since you are like that.
          2. YOUR
            YOUR 7 December 2022 16: 07
            0
            Do you think that such a sluggish war is a priority. Let our guys die somewhere for a year, two, three ....
            And how are you going to equate Banking? Well, besides nuclear weapons, is it possible in some other way? If so, why don't we even compare Bakhmut, Artemovsk?
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 7 December 2022 21: 12
              0
              Do you think that such a sluggish war is a priority.

              First of all, I think that the Defense Ministry and the president have more information about the current state of affairs. And they make decisions based not only on the situation on the fronts. And secondly, so to speak, I can carry anything from the couch, and give any advice I want, this will not change the decisions of the Moscow Region in any way. I will say the maximum on the article.
              And how are you going to equate Banking?

              If there was an order, there would be enough calibers for the eyes. And with a complex attack with geraniums, calibers and a couple of iskanders, there are no options at all to survive there. Just not the fact that the leadership of the 404th is there. Green is definitely in a bunker somewhere far from Kyiv.
              If so, why don't we even compare Bakhmut, Artemovsk?

              They would equalize, but they try not to destroy civilian infrastructure unnecessarily.
              1. YOUR
                YOUR 8 December 2022 02: 50
                +1
                Well, they laughed. Such a sad laugh you know.
                Quote: Wedmak
                And how are you going to equate Banking?

                If there was an order, there would be enough calibers for the eyes. And with a complex attack with geraniums, calibers and a couple of iskanders, there are no options at all to survive there.

                Are you serious? As you can see, this is by no means a panacea. Yes, the damage was done, but there is no way to turn the tide of the war.
                Quote: Wedmak
                They would equalize, but they try not to destroy civilian infrastructure unnecessarily.

                If you paid attention, then they only beat on the civil structure. In the beginning there were warehouses, barracks, camps. For a long time only in the civil structure - transformers, factories, bridges. And that success is doubtful.
                And from Bakhmut and Artemovsk, and so only the ruins remained, they destroyed everything with artillery, but we can’t take so much time already.
          3. Mikhail Maslov
            Mikhail Maslov 7 December 2022 17: 59
            0
            You don’t want to go into the trench, wait until it arrives? Or do you think it won’t affect you. It’s not the Aerospace Forces that is falling, but the Russian Federation, it’s good until it burns. You can’t let Banderlogs impose their tactics and strategy.
        2. Sergey39
          Sergey39 7 December 2022 12: 54
          -2
          And, why should an organization created by the Anglo-Saxons beat in their own way?
      2. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 7 December 2022 08: 35
        +1
        Quote: Wedmak
        What answer are you waiting for?

        the answer is that they were dummies of aircraft, apparently laughing
    2. Ruby
      Ruby 7 December 2022 09: 15
      +7
      Need to put in order. There is no doubt about this. The question is, who will put things in order? Over the past twenty or thirty years, the whole country has become entangled in the threads of nepotism. Or that a completely incorruptible and independent structure has somehow grown up in our country, which is able to professionally identify all problems and solve all personnel and organizational issues?
      Today, our top officials, both military and civilian, have learned to do two things: competently cut the budget and write beautiful reports.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 7 December 2022 09: 27
        +3
        Today, our top officials, both military and civilian, have learned to do two things: competently cut the budget and write beautiful reports.

        All? Polls?
      2. Dismas
        Dismas 7 December 2022 09: 32
        0
        It's true. From the USSR, we still inherited this nomenklatura nepotism of the "hairy hand". As then, the same surnames flashed through the political "elite", adjusted for the "change of generations" (mainly through the "forge" of MGIMO), and now.
    3. dementor873
      dementor873 7 December 2022 14: 01
      +1
      Quote: Mikhail Maslov
      This is where you need to start putting things in order, regardless of titles and positions.

      The main thing during the investigation is not to go out on yourself. Given the number of abscesses that break through here and there, if it were not for your own, then it should have been invented.
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. avia12005
    avia12005 7 December 2022 05: 55
    +8
    The whole question is how much more time is needed for someone's brains to still work. If they do not earn, then there will be more similar shame. And in unlimited quantities.
    1. your vsr 66-67
      your vsr 66-67 7 December 2022 07: 14
      +17
      Quote: avia12005
      The whole question is how much more time is needed for someone's brains to still work. If they do not earn, then there will be more similar shame. And in unlimited quantities.

      And you hope that the brains will earn? I doubt! It seems to me that today, all those in power, starting from the leadership of the districts and all the higher, do not care what will happen to Russia! They, like chameleons, will change their color to any color, just to stay at the feeder! Look, after all, many people in power were communists at one time! And who are they now? That's right, now they are United Russia!
    2. Galleon
      Galleon 7 December 2022 07: 22
      +14
      Not on those brains you have hope. Those brains work great, and work precisely to make it the way it is now. This is intentional.
    3. alekseykabanets
      alekseykabanets 7 December 2022 08: 39
      +4
      Quote: avia12005
      The whole question is how much more time is needed for someone's brains to still work. If they do not earn, then there will be more similar shame. And in unlimited quantities.

      Did some people get brainwashed in World War I? And it's exactly the same story here.
  7. figwam
    figwam 7 December 2022 05: 57
    +4
    Aircraft can be safely divided into two groups: old and not very old.

    Airplanes don't share that. There is a total flight time of the aircraft in hours, there is a concept of combat readiness or not.
    1. dauria
      dauria 7 December 2022 08: 27
      +6
      Airplanes don't share that.

      You are right... There is only one small catch. Even during the Soviet era. The new board from the factory had, among other things, a "warranty" resource of the manufacturer. They called a representative, a reclamation act, everything was restored to a shine. But that little "trick" - no one really carried out many of the work required by the regulations. The main thing is to change the factory seal to a part seal, make an entry in the form (passport) - and "get rid of it, don't touch the equipment - and it won't let you down." It was ? It was .... Everywhere and always. And it accumulates. Little things. Dirt,
      dust, minor wear . No, important things were checked and done, but they waved their hand at something - "it will do."
      So there was still a difference between the new and the old. Unofficial, not too important (and who will determine whether it is important or not?). But there was.
      1. ODERVIT
        ODERVIT 7 December 2022 08: 42
        +1
        "They did not really carry out routine maintenance, they changed seals ..."
        A very offensive passage in the direction of the IAS.
        1. dauria
          dauria 7 December 2022 09: 09
          +9
          A very offensive passage in the direction of the IAS.

          But honest. Have you observed all the points of the ERTE in preparation for the re-flight? Fastidiously followed each mechanic before signing for control?
          Yes, it’s just that there won’t be enough hands and time to observe everything “to the letter”, especially with half the staff.
          I remember flying from Transbaikalia to Sakhalin. A trifle, PARM is nearby, there are a lot of civilians, the area is preferential with buns - and what a miracle! Regulations began to be made not in parts, but in PARM. Quite a different result. They honestly opened, licked and so on ....
          1. ODERVIT
            ODERVIT 7 December 2022 11: 23
            +1
            "Honest insult", not bad.
            All types of operational preparations, maintenance and repair work at the nuclear power plant were and are being carried out in strict accordance with the ERTE, operational control has also been forgotten.
            70% of flight accidents are due to the fault of the flight crew.
      2. Damir_N
        Damir_N 7 December 2022 11: 03
        +6
        As a former TECH up specialist, I’ll say about what little attention is paid to. This is the state of the CPA and the general level of training of IAS specialists. The test equipment is aging and breaking down. Especially for testing Soviet-built aircraft. Very little money has been allocated under the article - repair of weapons and AT. Yes, and factories for the repair of such equipment in history, since the KPA is ancient. So we have to turn a blind eye to many points of the regulations. Well, the specialists of the IAS-level after graduation from the school are extremely low, the lack of interest in raising their professional level. The reasons are different and everyone knows.
  8. FoBoss_VM
    FoBoss_VM 7 December 2022 06: 06
    +33
    Everything comes from the utter irresponsibility of officials, and what is worse, from complete impunity. Which of the officials of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Industry and Trade suffered real criminal responsibility for the failure of the initial stage of their own? Nobody . Who was responsible for the gvrkr Moscow, for the Kharkov races, for leaving equipment and bk? Nobody. Who was responsible for the complete failure of mobilization, for the lack of the necessary equipment and uniforms? Nobody. Who was responsible for dispersion at airfields, bridges and oil storage facilities and warehouses? Nobody. All these people are sitting quietly in their chairs, getting sickly salaries, eating rations and robbing the budget. And they feel great. And all because the supreme one said that everything suits him, the personnel suits him and he does not plan to change anything. That's the whole story ... So, an attack on the strategists' nuclear-powered ships in Velyuchinsk and Gadzhiyevo, explosions on Plesetsk and east, undermining the bam and bridges across the Volga, the Irtysh and the Amur are waiting. Well, like a cherry on the cake, they will bring down the Spasskaya Tower. Maybe then Putin will realize that all the same, something needs to be changed, and this should have been done the day before yesterday. For, as Comrade Stalin said, cadres decide EVERYTHING. And with the current cadres, it was barely possible to put Georgia on its knees ..
    1. YOUR
      YOUR 7 December 2022 16: 13
      +2
      That is, we can safely conclude that after the attack on the airfields of Saki in the Crimea, Veretye ​​in the Pskov region, Millerovo in the Rostov and Shaikovka in the Kaluga regions, no conclusions were drawn.

      We drew conclusions, but where to get an air defense system, where to get a radar and, most importantly, where to get specialists. In many places, where the air defense divisions were stationed, only rare inclusions of RTV remained. The detection zones touch (!!!) at medium heights. And that's because foreign citizens refused to fly over uncontrolled territory. Go down to a height of 3 - 4 km, knowing where the radar stands, fly around in a circle and no one will see you. What happened
    2. 28st region
      28st region 7 December 2022 16: 31
      -1
      If now our air defense passes antediluvian missiles through half the country and detects them only after the explosion, it’s scary to imagine that a big war will start.
      1. YOUR
        YOUR 8 December 2022 06: 46
        +1
        That will be. We will learn about explosions by looking out the window.
        1. 28st region
          28st region 8 December 2022 06: 50
          +1
          I must say that the jokes are sad. But as we see, there is no other way.
  9. Sergei Dubinkin_2
    Sergei Dubinkin_2 7 December 2022 06: 10
    +14
    If you can’t profit from some event, then no one is interested. all bureaucrats in uniform and without, first build their own business, then get distracted by the problems of the country, sometimes when a fried cock pecks.
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. Gardamir
    Gardamir 7 December 2022 06: 32
    +4
    Thought there was some order
    It was once stated, "Russia doomedon liberalism"
  12. Wedmak
    Wedmak 7 December 2022 06: 40
    +11
    A) Planes fall not only here. Alas, even with a touch, even without.
    B) And let's see how the planes are stored in the stronghold of democracy?
    B-52 is the same picture as ours. Although it would seem...




    C-17

    You don't even need to rush.

    B1-B
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 7 December 2022 06: 41
      +6
      But it is not only strategic aviation that suffers from this. On pictures F-18, F-22, A-10:


      1. LastPS
        LastPS 7 December 2022 07: 03
        +18
        A) Planes fall not only here. Alas, even with a touch, even without.

        Reasonably.
        B) And let's see how the planes are stored in the stronghold of democracy?

        Well, here it is, the Americans do not conduct any kind of air defense with catch Mexicos, which have a hypothetical opportunity to get to their airfields based long-range aviation, well, or they are confident in their air defense systems.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 7 December 2022 07: 11
          +3
          Well, as if we were sure too. The novel, as usual, cites only negative facts, not wanting to compare them with similar decisions in other countries. Where is the comparative statistics on falls? Where is the photo of the airfields of American strategists? I was looking for this exactly 5 minutes. The main message of the article is that everything is bad with us. What about them? And silence...

          It seems to me more that the site is increasingly turning into a mouthpiece for the spread of panic and decadent moods in everything related to our army and navy. Some screaming headlines are worth something. Everywhere there is criticism, only accusations, NOT A SINGLE example of positive trends or examples of successful decisions/cases/facts/corrections.
          1. Machito
            Machito 7 December 2022 08: 38
            +12
            Quote: Wedmak
            Well, as if we were sure too. The novel, as usual, cites only negative facts, not wanting to compare them with similar decisions in other countries. Where is the comparative statistics on falls? Where is the photo of the airfields of American strategists? I was looking for this exactly 5 minutes. The main message of the article is that everything is bad with us. What about them? And silence...

            It seems to me more that the site is increasingly turning into a mouthpiece for the spread of panic and decadent moods in everything related to our army and navy. Some screaming headlines are worth something. Everywhere there is criticism, only accusations, NOT A SINGLE example of positive trends or examples of successful decisions/cases/facts/corrections.

            Why don't you fill this gap? Write something positive about our successes. I am sure that you will receive many positive comments on such an article if the text of the article corresponds to real success.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 7 December 2022 08: 51
              +4
              I also receive warnings in the comments for criticizing such articles, but do you believe that such an article will be published?
              1. Alien From
                Alien From 7 December 2022 22: 15
                -1
                Wedmak, Wedmak, yes, for the true state of affairs, now "" put in a cage like a giraffe "" (C). feel
          2. Alex_mech
            Alex_mech 7 December 2022 11: 09
            0
            And if the Americans are like that, then everything is fine, there is nothing to worry about.
          3. Elissa Mare
            Elissa Mare 7 December 2022 11: 30
            +4
            You noticed absolutely right! Continuous criticism, no offers and bait of numerous bots. It is clear, of course, that not everyone in the army is as we would like, but here from article to article it is approximately the same.
          4. silberwolf88
            silberwolf88 7 December 2022 13: 49
            0
            You don't think so. The site is really packed with strange personalities, alarmists and non-professionals to the eyeballs ... for one mature comment about a dozen bullshit about objectionable authorities and how sad they are for Russia on the couch
            1. alexey sidykin
              alexey sidykin 7 December 2022 17: 41
              +1
              Quote: silberwolf88
              You don't think so. The site is really packed with strange personalities, alarmists and non-professionals to the eyeballs ... for one mature comment about a dozen bullshit about objectionable authorities and how sad they are for Russia on the couch

              I asked myself the same question this fall. Flew immediately to the ban for a week. All questions immediately disappeared, according to the author of the article, similarly laughing
          5. lopvlad
            lopvlad 7 December 2022 16: 41
            +1
            Quote: Wedmak
            It seems to me more that the site is increasingly turning into a mouthpiece for the spread of panic and decadent moods in everything related to our army and navy.


            did you just notice? all articles by this author are of a negative, decadent nature in order to sow alarm among the Russian people. Only now it’s not 90 and the beginning of zero when 85 percent of the population consumed everything that any media would give them on a shovel and believed it.
            Now only a few percent of the alternatively gifted believe in such "devastating" articles.
      2. I_Kov
        I_Kov 7 December 2022 10: 28
        -3
        Name, please, at least candidates for a possible attack, and then we can talk about the placement of equipment.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 7 December 2022 10: 52
          +2
          Have you forgotten September 11th? However, you do not even need to look for candidates
          https://dzen.ru/news/story/45_tysyach_chelovek_ostalis_bezehlektrichestva_posle_ataki_napodstancii_vSSHA_vveden_komendantskij_chas--bff617c6001e1f361d202cb231b5cea1?persistent_id=705787826&issue_tld=by

          And if we apply at least Tu-141-level equipment to this ... and I repeat - the alleged absence of candidates does not mean the absence of an opportunity.
          1. I_Kov
            I_Kov 7 December 2022 15: 53
            -2
            Now, if they have another Pearl Harbor, then they will decide on the arrangement. In the meantime, this is our military operations, and not theirs in the center of another continent. The 41st year was already forgotten when they lost most of the equipment.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 7 December 2022 16: 33
              -1
              So we decide according to the situation, what is the problem? I believe that this time the Armed Forces of Ukraine, purely by chance, managed to get to the strategists. Moreover, the assistance of the states in reconnaissance and the formation of a flight mission for Swift is not ruled out. And also its refinement. As knowledgeable people say, the Armed Forces of Ukraine act not from what they want, but from what they can.
              1. lopvlad
                lopvlad 7 December 2022 20: 12
                +1
                Quote: Wedmak
                Moreover, the assistance of the states in reconnaissance and the formation of a flight mission for Swift is not ruled out.


                without the help of American reconnaissance satellites, the possibility that a Ukrainian drone could fly there is zero. It bypassed the Russian air defense zones in flight and only the air defense of the airfield itself shot it down, but then, by inertia, its fragments fell on the airfield itself and caused trouble.
      3. Evgeny_4
        Evgeny_4 7 December 2022 12: 59
        -1
        They don’t seem to have a CBO. Yes, and who can encroach on the beacon of world democracy, which is on a separate continent.
        We seem to be having an air defense system, or whatever .. And again a mess .. In our city, one enterprise purchased equipment against drones. On the other, no. Although the plant produces and modernizes three types of military aircraft.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 7 December 2022 13: 20
          +1
          So this is probably a question for the management of the enterprise? If it does not devote time and does not allocate resources to the security of a secure facility. Is he a regular?
          1. Evgeny_4
            Evgeny_4 9 December 2022 20: 08
            -1
            It shouldn't be like that. Sloppiness.
      4. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 7 December 2022 20: 24
        -1
        Quote: Wedmak
        But it is not only strategic aviation that suffers from this. On the pictures

        Alas, comrade, squealing "everything is bad" is now much more hype than keeping cool or constructively criticizing.
        The funniest (or saddest) thing is that most of the local commentators shouting about Stalin's times and "everything is bad now" under the Leader would have been attracted for alarmism :)
    2. alekseykabanets
      alekseykabanets 7 December 2022 08: 42
      -1
      Quote: Wedmak
      And let's see how the planes are stored in the stronghold of democracy?

      Is the "stronghold of democracy" fighting with someone today? Does the "stronghold of democracy" need to be wary of the UAV of a hostile state today?
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 7 December 2022 08: 54
        +3
        It's not a matter of "fighting or not fighting." There are a lot of hostile states in relation to the USA. Nobody prevents them from sending people there with a drone and hitting the strategists. You don’t even need a large UAV, one small one with a grenade will make noise. Do you think such articles will be written there too?
        1. alekseykabanets
          alekseykabanets 7 December 2022 08: 59
          +2
          Quote: Wedmak
          Nobody prevents them from sending people there with a drone and hitting the strategists.

          Think about why it hasn't been sent yet.))))
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 7 December 2022 09: 04
            -1
            why haven't they sent it yet?

            Well, on September 11, they did the same thing. The US certainly took action, but who guarantees that they will not miss the same blow? Nobody. You don’t think that the entire territory of the United States is 100% monitored by air defense 24/7?
          2. wladimirjankov
            wladimirjankov 7 December 2022 15: 56
            0
            even as sent. They forgot the Saki airfield, the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet in the Crimea, the landing craft in the port of Berdyansk, bases, ammunition depots and fuel storage facilities in Bryansk, Kursk, Belgorod, the Pskov region and other cities
      2. Illanatol
        Illanatol 7 December 2022 08: 59
        +5
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        Is the "stronghold of democracy" fighting with someone today? Does the "stronghold of democracy" need to be wary of the UAV of a hostile state today?

        In fact, almost all over the world. Against Russia, against Europe, against China. "Peace is war. Hybrid war."

        Of course, the new "September 11" does not threaten him. The elite there do not need new terrorist attacks - they will not happen.
      3. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 7 December 2022 10: 59
        +3
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        Is the "stronghold of democracy" fighting with someone today?

        But yak. Traditionally, he fights terrorists in Syria and Iraq by protecting illegal oil production. smile
    3. Alex_mech
      Alex_mech 7 December 2022 11: 08
      0
      Wow, how far is that from the front line? Can they get information about these airfields from the territory of Canada or Mexico?
    4. Stas157
      Stas157 7 December 2022 12: 51
      -1
      Quote: Wedmak
      And let's see how planes are stored in the stronghold of democracy?
      B-52 is the same picture as ours.

      This is exactly what Sanya shows in Florida.
      Take a minute, you will find a lot of interesting things!

      Watch from 10.28 minutes:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuNrkS3HWZA
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 7 December 2022 13: 07
        +2
        He gives examples of fighter hangars. We also have them in Syria. Do you really think it is possible to make such a canopy over the Tu-160 or Tu-95MS?
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 7 December 2022 13: 22
          -1
          Quote: Wedmak
          He gives examples of hangars for fighters.

          Not only. And yes, the canopy can be made under any aircraft. Especially if they are custom!

          I see you like pictures? So here they are:

          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 7 December 2022 14: 11
            +6
            I love pictures. Pictured is C-130, wing span: 40,41 m, height: 11,84 m, length: 29,79 m
            Watch Tu-95MS wingspan 50,04 m., height, m: 13,20, length 49,09 m.,
            The hangar is apparently for some work, as you can see the forests. So it doesn't stay there all the time. We have such buildings, in particular, at the assembly of the Tu-160. But these are single buildings and very expensive.

            Tu-95 MS is 10 meters wider, almost one and a half higher, 20 meters longer. And the hangar should naturally be larger so that both the equipment fits and the areas are free. Can you imagine this cyclopean-sized building? Moreover, as they demand here, protected? And every time for the flight this colossus should be taken out and brought inside?
            But what about the Tu-160, is it even bigger?
            1. Stas157
              Stas157 7 December 2022 15: 17
              -2
              Quote: Wedmak
              In the picture S-130

              You did not understand or deliberately began to find fault with the details.
              The fact that it was the S-130 I saw perfectly, exposing the picture. And I thought that this was quite enough to understand the reality that there are also hangars for large aircraft. And awnings are even easier to implement.

              Well, OK! Keep your favorite pictures, now with strategists:




              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 7 December 2022 15: 36
                +5
                I told you, this is not for every aircraft - this is a repair and maintenance hangar. There are a maximum of a couple of them for the entire base. If you remember, initially it was about a protected hangar for each aircraft. And you show single hangars, which we also have.
                1. Stas157
                  Stas157 7 December 2022 15: 58
                  -2
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  This is a repair and maintenance hangar.

                  Infa first hand?))

                  Look at the first photo. There is an empty box. There is no equipment for repair and maintenance. Except the bombs.
                  1. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 7 December 2022 16: 45
                    +2
                    The same or similar hangar. The aircraft is being serviced. Bombs could either be removed or prepared for suspension in drums.

                    Pay attention to the yellow beams at the top.
                2. Demon_blood
                  Demon_blood 7 December 2022 17: 09
                  +2
                  They have hangars and from bad weather (typhoons, cold blizzards) they hide planes in hangars. In the hot, dry interior of the United States, planes park in the open. B-1

      2. alexey sidykin
        alexey sidykin 7 December 2022 17: 46
        0
        Quote: Stas157
        Quote: Wedmak
        And let's see how planes are stored in the stronghold of democracy?
        B-52 is the same picture as ours.

        This is exactly what Sanya shows in Florida.
        Take a minute, you will find a lot of interesting things!

        Watch from 10.28 minutes:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuNrkS3HWZA

        And why does he not speak of these hangars? And what will one hurricane do with planes if they stay on an open platform? Fighters are driven into the hangars when the next hurricane approaches, and so they are just like everywhere else in the open air.
      3. lazy
        lazy 10 December 2022 14: 47
        +1
        Sanya in Florida. showed the bases but did not specify whether they were strategists or tactical aviation. so they just stand like on a ruler and ours are in the TECHi hangars



    5. dementor873
      dementor873 7 December 2022 14: 08
      -1
      You are now comparing the air fleet of the Russian Federation and the United States, seriously? This is the same as in a 12-apartment building, due to the collapse of the entrance, 4 more neighbors collapsed, all such ay-yai-yai violated construction regulations, urban planning norms. And in response, they show you the 20th entrance house in China, look at them too.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 7 December 2022 14: 17
        +3
        I'm not comparing the park and not the quantity. And the form of the strategic aviation parking lot. It's the same for us and for them.
    6. YOUR
      YOUR 7 December 2022 16: 15
      +1
      Why make such lies? You posted pictures from the Davis-Monten aircraft storage base
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 7 December 2022 16: 50
        +1
        What is the subterfuge? In the way of storage or combat aircraft, each in its own huge hangar? So show. Only now they have already laid out above ... hangars for repair and maintenance.
        1. YOUR
          YOUR 8 December 2022 03: 26
          +1
          The forgery is that you posted pictures from the aircraft storage base, where more than 4400 aircraft, helicopters and even spacecraft are stored.
  13. astronom1973n
    astronom1973n 7 December 2022 06: 41
    +13
    At the airfield in the Steppe settlement (former ZabVO) I observed wonderful shelters for aircraft, with thick sliding gates, with a decent layer of earth backfilled from above.!!! True, these shelters were most likely for aircraft of old models. But if such shelters are built for the aviation of the Air Force of our country, then I suppose there will be no losses during an attack on the airfield! All the same, it seems to me that the price of shelter will be cheaper than the production of an aircraft.
    1. avia12005
      avia12005 7 December 2022 08: 23
      +6
      Not only in the Steppe. Borzya, the abandoned airfield, Bada, Dzhida, Bezrechnaya - there were also arched shelters.
      1. nils
        nils 8 December 2022 21: 45
        0
        Quote: avia12005
        Not only in the Steppe. Borzya, the abandoned airfield, Bada, Dzhida, Bezrechnaya - there were also arched shelters.

        EVERYTHING IS DONE! + Tiksi-3! Only one military airfield remained in ZabVO - Domna.
    2. alekseykabanets
      alekseykabanets 7 December 2022 08: 45
      +5
      Quote: astronom1973n
      But if such shelters are built for the aviation of the Air Force of our country, then I suppose there will be no losses during an attack on the airfield!

      But there is one problem here, you can’t sell shelters for airplanes on a mortgage to citizens.
    3. Ura65
      Ura65 7 December 2022 09: 15
      +7
      Arched shelters for aircraft were built only in the 250-kilometer border zone, because this is a very expensive pleasure. Amers have the same situation.
      1. Scientist
        Scientist 7 December 2022 09: 49
        +1
        Expensive, but much cheaper than a modern aircraft. Moreover, we do them per hour for a teaspoon.
        Well, there is another aspect. Now they are at a glance, where, how much, which ones are being repaired, which ones are laid up. And this is all in real time.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 7 December 2022 10: 00
          +4
          Hangars for strategists, and even more so fortified, as far as I remember, no one builds. Maximum partial light canopies.
          1. Scientist
            Scientist 7 December 2022 12: 28
            -3
            Well, so far no one has tried to attack them.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 7 December 2022 13: 08
              +4
              So no one tried to attack our airfields before the start of the NWO.
      2. Stas157
        Stas157 7 December 2022 13: 06
        0
        Quote: Ura65
        Arched shelters for aircraft were built only in the 250-kilometer border zone, because this very expensive pleasure.

        And if a light canopy? Well, just so that the satellite does not see.
        From 10.28 minutes:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuNrkS3HWZA
      3. dementor873
        dementor873 7 December 2022 14: 11
        0
        They can't even build one.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 7 December 2022 14: 25
          +2
          More than 50 meters wide? And preferably that way at 70. And a length of under 50. And a height of 20.
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 7 December 2022 11: 03
      +6
      Quote: astronom1973n
      At the airfield in the Steppe settlement (former ZabVO) I observed wonderful shelters for aircraft, with thick sliding gates, with a decent layer of earth backfilled from above.!!! True, these shelters were most likely for aircraft of old models.

      Absolutely. Arched shelters of the Soviet era were built for the third generation - MiG-23, MiG-27, Su-22, Su-24, Su-25. The ambush is that the dimensions of the parking lot for the aircraft in it are only 12,9 x 28 m - and the Su-27 family simply does not fit into this shelter by its wingspan.
    5. Alex_mech
      Alex_mech 7 December 2022 11: 11
      -4
      You can't show the hangar at the parade! In addition, you can always calculate how much concrete was actually poured.
  14. Tagan
    Tagan 7 December 2022 06: 55
    +10
    But the main question is: who even bothered to settle those who arrived from the state with which we are at war in the city where such a base is located?
    A strange man with no less strange thoughts. They arrive not the first year and there are already several million of them. Maybe they needed to create a separate district or region somewhere in Siberia?
    1. I_Kov
      I_Kov 7 December 2022 16: 00
      -2
      Embrace the Indian Settlement Experience laughing remember the British camps in South Africa.
  15. Vladimir Mikhalev
    Vladimir Mikhalev 7 December 2022 06: 59
    +2
    Falling for what? The youth are imprisoned. Why are they planted? A replacement is being prepared. Without completing a certain number of raids, they do not let them go further. It's not all about technology. They sleep at the expense of air defense. Maybe now the pins will get swayed.
  16. Li17
    Li17 7 December 2022 07: 03
    0
    Yes, all this comes from one thing, if in the USSR in a nightmare it could not be that a manager became the head of the army ... Compared to them, the current construction battalion worker was already something, even brightly hung around everyone with medals, but everything else is the same. And the demand is not from General Surovikin, but from those who command, appointing mediocrely! It is General Konoshenkov who can speak according to the text, but command ....!
    "But, to be honest, I was shocked by the helplessness of our VKS. I thought at least somewhere in order. Alas, disappointment here too."
    I was already wondering, maybe someone knows - where is our order? I have one answer, funeral agencies work fine!
    1. Machito
      Machito 7 December 2022 08: 40
      +4
      Funeral homes are a mess too. You are right to praise them.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 7 December 2022 11: 08
      +2
      Quote: lithium17
      Yes, all this comes from one thing, if in the USSR in a nightmare it could not be that a manager became the manager of the army ...

      In the USSR, a locksmith led the army for 15 years. smile
      And the professional military brought the army of the USSR to a state where reforms in it had to be carried out by the head of the ruling party. Otherwise, this army in peacetime would simply gobble up the country, and in wartime it would be unable to do practically anything with the main enemy.
    4. Serg65
      Serg65 7 December 2022 11: 09
      +4
      Quote: lithium17
      if in the USSR in a nightmare it could not be that the manager became the manager of the army

      Dmitry Fedorovich Ustinov at your service! Evil genius of the Soviet Army!
    5. UAZ 452
      UAZ 452 7 December 2022 11: 46
      0
      I don’t know the content of terrible dreams for all citizens of the USSR, but specifically for the Marshal of the Soviet Union Sokolov, probably a German guy Matthias Rust and a small airplane Sesna appeared in them.
    6. lopvlad
      lopvlad 7 December 2022 16: 57
      +1
      Quote: lithium17
      Yes, all this comes from one thing, if in the USSR in a nightmare it could not be that a manager became the manager of the army


      and what about in the USSR when Matthias Rust sat down on the square near the Kremlin, the managers controlled the Soviet army?
      1. Li17
        Li17 7 December 2022 19: 00
        -1
        Gorbachev ruled, and if this stray had been knocked down ... I can imagine how much a perestroika groan would have been, the boy got lost! The South Korean Boeing was overwhelmed ... there was noise, but the return from ours went! And under Gorbachev, I somehow doubt it! And yet, I hope you have not forgotten that in general we are at war, and other laws, wartime laws should apply here ... But for some reason they have not been introduced in our country yet, business may suffer. Although the business works here, the Azov people and the sadist taira + foreigners, I don’t think that everything is for free! So it's knocking us down!
  17. km-21
    km-21 7 December 2022 07: 05
    +2
    Correct article. But incomplete. Personally, I would extend it to all other branches of the military, as well as to all civilian sectors except hydrocarbon production and agriculture. Alas, over the past few decades, we have not only squandered a large country, but also ruined the remnants of its industry. And where there is no industry, there is nothing, including the armed forces. Before the start of the special operation, there was hope that not everything was so gloomy. But over the past six months, it turned out that almost everything. I don’t know what is going on with strategic missiles, but judging by the attitude towards strategic aviation, everything is likely, including the worst.

    The only consolation in the current situation is that the Americans are afraid of escalation. It can be assumed that they still have something to fear from our side. But we must understand that time works against us. And if all trends continue in their current form, then in a short time we will be killed. And, absolutely with impunity. Because we will have nothing to punish the offenders.
    1. User_neydobniu
      User_neydobniu 7 December 2022 08: 13
      +1
      The only consolation in the current situation is that the Americans are afraid of escalation

      Considering that the airfields based on nuclear forces are already probing an UAV that looks like a cruise missile as much as possible, then I would not be so sure of this
  18. km-21
    km-21 7 December 2022 07: 19
    +7
    I'll add a little bitterness.
    For some reason, we expect arrivals exclusively from the territory of Ukraine, forgetting that the US and NATO are fighting against us. It is possible that yesterday's strikes were carried out by old Soviet drones. What if it was reconnaissance in combat? And what will happen if tomorrow the newest American (or British, French, Israeli) drones arrive - kamikaze? Indeed, in this case, ALL of our strategic aviation will end in one moment.

    The worst thing is that there is no way out of this situation. The redeployment of strategists to distant airfields will not solve the problem. With the advent of Starlink, drones can be controlled even from the other side of the planet. Moreover, in real time, as the Lancet operators do.

    No, guys, it's not like that...
    It's not like that guys!
    1. Grancer81
      Grancer81 7 December 2022 07: 56
      +3
      The United States could not do without the participation of space intelligence ... But ... Will these drones actually fly from the USA, Britain, France or Israel? They don’t need this as long as there is Ukraine ...
      And don't forget about another global player - China...
      For whom the disappearance of Russia in any form is extremely unprofitable, since in the UN Security Council he remains alone against three players hostile to him, and if these three still drag a couple of their allies into the UN Security Council, then he will have a very great sadness ...
      1. Scientist
        Scientist 7 December 2022 09: 55
        +3
        Yes, the UN is nonsense, it seems that he does not have long to live at all. History of the League of Nations one to one. And China needs a source of cheap resources in large quantities and cover for a very large part of the border.
        1. Grancer81
          Grancer81 14 December 2022 19: 52
          -1
          The UN has nothing like the League of Nations ... So, you guessed it, monsher ...
      2. Alex_mech
        Alex_mech 7 December 2022 11: 14
        0
        Moscow alone is enough to vote for China in the UN. The whole area is not needed.
        1. The comment was deleted.
      3. wladimirjankov
        wladimirjankov 7 December 2022 16: 10
        0
        On the contrary, I think that it will be beneficial for China. He will receive as a gift the entire Far East and Siberia with their resources. And he doesn't care about the UN. Yes, and he will agree with the states.
        1. Grancer81
          Grancer81 14 December 2022 19: 57
          -1
          In China, they don’t think so yet ... Yes, and they perfectly understand that they can only come to an agreement with the United States for the shortest possible time ... And they know the price of the word of the United States very well ...
  19. Vyacheslav Krylov
    Vyacheslav Krylov 7 December 2022 07: 36
    -1
    In order to put things in order in the military economy of the Russian Federation, I propose to assign Sergei Surovikin an extraordinary military rank of "Generalisimo of Russia" and award him with an order with diamonds.
    1. gjkrjdybr50
      gjkrjdybr50 8 December 2022 19: 22
      0
      And you a medal with a twist on the back. You can choose the type of medal on the Internet.
  20. Dean
    Dean 7 December 2022 07: 40
    +11
    Aerospace Forces, Navy .. Guys, look at the whole country. Everywhere is a mess. And as always, the boyars. And the commander-in-chief, who did all this, is out of business
    1. elai
      elai 7 December 2022 08: 08
      +10
      I fully support here. The mess is everywhere! and it is necessary to clean from the very top. Let's remember the words of Peskov's daughter !! Whom did he bring up, some kind of shmara, but under the president. I would fire him. Look at local government.
      The problem of the country is not in people, but in their responsibility, in our country all high ranks must manage, develop, lead. Forgive me and ANSWER, who will be responsible for miscalculations and mistakes?
      Igor Moiseenko stole 11 lard from the FSUE State ATM Corporation, the case is being carried out, but for now he was removed, but made the head of the ROSTEKH office in Dubai!
      Troops, did someone answer with a prison term for miscalculations in planning the NWO?
      Why am I all ... We do not need a revolution at all, because the enemies will devour us while we are here to solve problems. We need to introduce the responsibility of each chief for each of his actions and for the people in his subordination. So half of the Indians themselves will leave fearing prison, and those who are confident in themselves, in their knowledge, and who are ready to be responsible for the decisions will come.
      Under Stalin, for the miscalculations of commanders and the death of soldiers, the commander's tribunal followed, where is it all ???
      1. alekseykabanets
        alekseykabanets 7 December 2022 08: 54
        +5
        Quote: elai
        Under Stalin, for the miscalculations of commanders and the death of soldiers, the commander's tribunal followed, where is it all ???

        Do not remind how Stalin (among others) came to power? What was the socio-political system under Stalin? No Stalin is possible today, some kind of next reincarnation of Adolf Aloizovich or Pinochet is possible, nothing more.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 7 December 2022 11: 14
        0
        Quote: elai
        Under Stalin, for the miscalculations of commanders and the death of soldiers, the commander's tribunal followed, where is it all ???

        Comrade Oktyabrsky looks at you with bewilderment. The Black Sea Fleet is generally some kind of cursed place.
        If we take the army men, then we can recall the failure of the summer campaign in the South in 1942, for which only Tymoshenko suffered. In 1943, Comrade Rotmistrov wore off his tank army in a day, throwing it on the enemy's unexplored defenses - and nothing.
      3. Alex_mech
        Alex_mech 7 December 2022 11: 17
        -2
        Under Stalin in 1941, the Germans walked very cheerfully across the territory of the USSR, and Stalin and his team of "managers" certainly had nothing to do with it, they noticed in time and did not allow it, right?
      4. alexey sidykin
        alexey sidykin 7 December 2022 17: 55
        0
        Quote: elai
        Under Stalin, for the miscalculations of commanders and the death of soldiers, the commander's tribunal followed, where is it all ???

        Well, ka ... who was the thread shot for the failure of the Kerch operation or for the Kharkov rout?
    2. The comment was deleted.
  21. Beaver
    Beaver 7 December 2022 07: 51
    -1
    When citizens are stupid and lazy, you can't expect anything else.
  22. alexey_444
    alexey_444 7 December 2022 07: 57
    +13
    Only people who are not in the know can be surprised at the crash of planes, just look at the statistics of how many planes crash in America every year, where there are no problems with maintenance, flight, etc. Naturally, when the raid increases, the planes fall more often. As for Engels... If you launch the same flight in America or in Europe, it will be the same. We have a strong enemy, and in order to launch a missile at Engels, a window was chosen when our air defense was not working, why didn’t it work? Well, there should be a spare money for each complex, in addition to a backup, the equipment breaks down, people get tired. And money (individual hangars), slovenliness, banal laziness. There are a lot of wise men, but you drag the planes along the take-off, just like with the pandemic, it’s over, they stopped paying doctors, they began to swear, and with the attendants, you will have to pay more. Regarding the fifth column, the same Saratov aircraft plant during the Second World War, the Germans first destroyed the water towers, then burned, when there was nothing to extinguish, the plant itself with oiled wooden floors, and how many squeals there were about the resettlement of the Volga Germans, and this was in those days when there was the NKVD, and now?
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 7 December 2022 09: 11
      +1
      only people who are not in the know can marvel at the crash of planes, just look at the statistics of how many planes crash in America every year, where there are no problems with maintenance, flying

      Absolute figures do not say anything, we need data on the number of accidents per number of departures, or some other data. I can’t say about aviation, but there was an article about submarines that the Americans have more boats, they go to sea more often, but they lost 2 boats from accidents, and ours 8.
      I think if you count by planes, something similar will also happen. About a raid of 35-45 hours is now hard to believe. Since 2015, all the pilots have passed through Syria, gained a lot of experience, and at first, in my opinion, the SVO have the largest flight time in the world.
      1. alexey_444
        alexey_444 7 December 2022 09: 31
        +7
        At one time, when the Americans flew to Lipetsk on the F-15, ours were surprised to see their planes with oil leaks from the joints, on the other hand, American cars are also not very reliable.
    2. Grancer81
      Grancer81 14 December 2022 20: 02
      0
      A very interesting thought slipped through ... It turns out that ITS planes are rolling along the runway ...
  23. Ru_Na
    Ru_Na 7 December 2022 08: 11
    +4
    Hmm, everything is sad, but what, in fact, is the author surprised about ?! The army is a reflection of our society, a mess here and there, or did Roman not notice this ?! Is it possible to correct the situation, of course, but first of all, our society needs to be treated, and the army will be cured along with it, but so far there are no steps towards this.
    1. Elissa Mare
      Elissa Mare 7 December 2022 11: 26
      +1
      Indeed, our society needs to be treated: from the fifth column, all-weaponers and khataskrayniks.
  24. Battle Toads
    Battle Toads 7 December 2022 08: 15
    +5
    Since the beginning of the NWO, the number of aviation sorties has multiplied. Consequently, the percentage of accidents has multiplied.

    That's the whole answer to all your snot and panic drinks
    1. Alex_mech
      Alex_mech 7 December 2022 11: 20
      +2
      No, "percentage" is the ratio of 2 digits. If earlier there were 100 departures and 1 accident, then 1%. We increase the number of departures by a multiple of 1000 sorties and 10 accidents, this is still the same 1%. But if, with a multiple increase in departures, the percentage of accidents grows multiple, then this is, as it were, a problem.
    2. km-21
      km-21 7 December 2022 12: 07
      +3
      Since the beginning of the NWO, the number of aviation sorties has multiplied. Consequently, the percentage of accidents has multiplied.
      That's the whole answer to all your snot and panic drinks

      Since the attack on the Crimean airfield in Saki, a new tradition has arisen - to lose planes without taking off from airfields. If planes continue to stand next to each other in the open, then this tradition will very quickly cover our entire aviation.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. Vyacheslav Ermolaev
    Vyacheslav Ermolaev 7 December 2022 08: 20
    +4
    Like, they didn’t fall under the Union? My father was a pilot, first military, then civilian. And then the pilots were buried. I didn’t see the military myself - I was small, but looking through the photo sometimes the phrase sounded: “he remained young.” But I remember the civilians as a friend from a neighboring entrance without a father (An-12 sat on a snow blower), I remember how my father, living already in another city, I met the coffin of a friend from the station along with his parents (the helicopter crashed in the tundra).
  27. Victor Leningradets
    Victor Leningradets 7 December 2022 08: 24
    -3
    Thank you, Roman, for daring to open this issue.
    Oddly enough, I will allow myself to act as a lawyer for the current government. She is physically unable to maintain the VKS at the level of the USSR. The Russian Federation is a regional, not a superpower. Russia physically cannot afford to adequately produce modern systems of the strategic triad, train personnel, and maintain high combat capability. And not because (not only not because) that "everything was stolen before us", but because the gut is thin.
    Obviously, the time has come to get rid of illusions and, as the cunning British once did, to abandon the most technically complex elements of the strategic forces of nuclear deterrence.
    As an objective analysis shows, Russia is not able to create modern strategic bombers and maintain the operation of existing ones at the proper level. In addition, modern strategic aviation requires appropriate basing, logistics, large-scale, not ostentatious exercises.
    This means that this element of the strategic forces should be abolished, and the freed up funds should be used to strengthen what should ensure the security of the Russian Federation in the coming decades.
    Of the candidates for additional budget injections, there remain the Strategic Missile Forces and the SSBN. And here a dilemma arises, what is a priority for Russia:
    sea ​​or land based forces. As an analysis of the situation shows, Russia is also beyond its strength to create a fleet that meets modern requirements. What remains is the accelerated development of the Strategic Missile Forces and missile defense systems, where (according to official sources) Russia has a priority in creating unparalleled weapons systems.
    What is the risk? The loss of initiative on the world stage, the loss of the remnants of engineering personnel in the strategic aircraft industry and underwater shipbuilding.
    What does it give? an opportunity to rethink reality and develop appropriate plans to ensure the country's defense capability.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 7 December 2022 08: 49
      +4
      How you famously painted the abolition of 2/3 of our nuclear deterrent. Did the manual come from the Pentagon?
      Russia physically cannot afford to adequately produce modern systems of the strategic triad, train personnel, and maintain high combat capability.

      That is, she could maintain, repair and modernize the fleet of strategists for all these 30 years, but now she can’t?
      As an objective analysis shows, Russia is not able to create modern strategic bombers and maintain the operation of existing ones at the proper level.

      Can you link to "objective analysis"? Is there a fad about the modernization of strategists, the construction of new Tu-160s, the modernization of the Tu-95MS and Tu-22M3?
      Of the candidates for additional budget injections, there remain the Strategic Missile Forces and the SSBN. And here a dilemma arises, what is a priority for Russia

      It’s wonderful in general, but why did they suddenly become competitors for the division of the budget?
      As an analysis of the situation shows, Russia is also beyond its strength to create a fleet that meets modern requirements.

      Perhaps here I will ask for a reference to the "analysis of the situation." Can? And where is it written about the commissioning of new Boreys, which will replace the soon-to-be-failed BDRM? Well, at the same time a series of Ash and Varshavyanka, the fleet is the same.
      What remains is the accelerated development of the Strategic Missile Forces and missile defense systems, where (according to official sources) Russia has a priority in creating unparalleled weapons systems.

      Do I understand correctly that in this case we will be left with one missile defense system and a small chance of a retaliatory strike from mine and soil complexes? You are aware that any missile defense is not 100% protection, but rather a reflection of small strikes? None of the world's missile defense systems can withstand a massive nuclear strike.
      an opportunity to rethink reality and develop appropriate plans to ensure the country's defense capability.

      Your proposal achieves only one thing - the destruction of the most mobile and covert systems of nuclear strike weapons, after which the United States may well decide that they can win in a nuclear exchange. And they will win.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 7 December 2022 11: 39
        +1
        Quote: Wedmak
        How you famously painted the abolition of 2/3 of our nuclear deterrent. Did the manual come from the Pentagon?

        Where is 2/3 then? Of the entire triad, the Strategic Missile Forces are half of the SBC. Navy - 40%.
        Quote: Wedmak
        Perhaps here I will ask for a reference to the "analysis of the situation." Can? And where is it written about the commissioning of new Boreys, which will replace the soon-to-be-failed BDRM? Well, at the same time a series of Ash and Varshavyanka, the fleet is the same.

        So with the SSBN we are doing well. The problem is that the fleet has nothing to withdraw from the bases and provide a database for these SSBNs. OVR, through the efforts of Commander-in-Chief Chirkov, died safely, rare corvettes remained in the near zone, and living ships of the far zone in each of the fleets can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
        The main advantage of the SSBN is its secrecy, which ensures the impossibility of a preemptive strike and the inevitability of retaliation. But this stealth is not achieved by itself - the entire fleet must work for it. If there are no ships of the fleet involved in anti-aircraft defense and anti-aircraft defense on approaches to bases and anti-aircraft defense and air defense on approaches to positional areas, then SSBNs are a waste of money.
        Alas, we actually do not have the forces to support the SSBNs. "Virgins" can now safely wait for the boats to leave right next to the exit from the base.
        And with the new ICAPLs, it’s even worse - according to the plan, fewer of them are built than SSBNs, and they enter service later. But in addition to covering the strategists, the ICAPL has its own tasks.
        In general, with the current fleet development strategy, SSBNs can only shoot from the berths. And why do we need to build a submarine for this? Wouldn't it be better to build a couple of PGRK regiments with the same money?
        Quote: Wedmak
        Your proposal gives only one thing - the destruction of the most mobile and covert systems of nuclear strike weapons

        So the problem is that the mobility and secrecy of these weapons systems is achieved only if a whole range of measures is applied. Which we don't have and won't have in the near future. And without them, the stealth of the SSBNs is similar to the stealth of the Tu-95, cutting circles near Iceland. sad
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 7 December 2022 12: 44
          +1
          And yet, the comrade proposes to cleanly slaughter dozens of carriers with hundreds of warheads, simply because, well, because it turns out we can’t. Isn't this what our potential adversary is waiting for?
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 7 December 2022 17: 39
            0
            Quote: Wedmak
            And yet, the comrade proposes to cleanly slaughter dozens of carriers with hundreds of warheads, simply because, well, because it turns out we can’t.

            Slaughter comrade offers the air component of the triad. And then not to slaughter, but to abolish. And it can be abolished in different ways: for example, how the Yankees can transfer former strategists to the DA, cutting in front of them the tasks of working with non-nuclear CD.
            And for the marine component, there are no proposals to "cut" at all - only to transfer the finances released from the Air Force strategists to the Strategic Missile Forces:
            Quote: Victor Leningradets
            Of the candidates for additional budget injections, there remain the Strategic Missile Forces and the SSBN. And here a dilemma arises, what is a priority for Russia:
            sea ​​or land based forces. As an analysis of the situation shows, Russia is also beyond its strength to create a fleet that meets modern requirements. What remains is the accelerated development of the Strategic Missile Forces and missile defense systems, where (according to official sources) Russia has a priority in creating unparalleled weapons systems.

            Quote: Wedmak
            Isn't this what our potential adversary is waiting for?

            So ... the alternative is not better - to spend billions on weapons systems, which we most likely will not be able to use for their intended purpose. But at the same time, be completely sure that everything is fine - well, here they are, SSBNs, look how menacing they look in parades. And the fact that without the rest of the forces of the fleet our submarine is a big target - they prefer to keep quiet about this.
      2. UAZ 452
        UAZ 452 7 December 2022 12: 07
        0
        The author most likely got excited about the liquidation of submarine missile carriers, although in the light of recent events there are real doubts that we can ensure the safety of their base areas, except perhaps in Lake Baikal, not to mention their guaranteed exit to the sea during a threatened period. Rather, their inglorious death at the pier is seen from the attack of low-flying cruise missiles and underwater drones. But on what grounds did you include strategic aviation among highly mobile and, moreover, covert systems? The antediluvian Soviet UAV quite coped with this secrecy, and how many airfields do we have in our country capable of providing combat work for the Tu-160? Ten? Or two dozen? A couple of DRGs with MANPADS are near everyone, and the country does not have strategic bombers. Ground mines give at least some chance for the possibility of a retaliatory and retaliatory strike, in this I agree with the previous commentator.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 7 December 2022 12: 49
          +1
          that we can secure their home areas

          Is this a reason to abandon the whole direction of submarines?
          A couple of DRGs with MANPADS are near everyone, and the country does not have strategic bombers. H

          Well, yes, someone came up with it, and let's cut strategists right and left ... stop .. it already happened once. And even overseas money was allocated for this.
          Ground mines give at least some chance for the possibility of a retaliatory and retaliatory strike, in this I agree with the previous commentator.

          Are you sure we have enough mines? New ones are not being built. And we will cancel the patrolling of strategists again, but really, why burn kerosene. Almost 20 years did not fly, everything was fine.
        2. Victor Leningradets
          Victor Leningradets 7 December 2022 12: 53
          +1
          Lord comrades!
          Are you sorry, henbane overeat?
          Where did I write about the "elimination of SSBNs and" strategists "?
          I wrote that Russia will not pull the whole triad. This does not mean that "strategists" have no place in the structure of the Navy Air Force, or that all SSBNs need to be disarmed and cut - let them serve themselves where they can. But one-sided development of these forces for the sake of prestige is not worth spending money on. It is the Strategic Missile Forces and missile defense that should take on the basis of security and guaranteed retaliation. They should get the lion's share of the budget. It is here that scientific and production personnel should be concentrated.
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 7 December 2022 13: 11
            +3
            Where did I write about the "elimination of SSBNs and" strategists "?

            I quote!:
            This means that this element of the strategic forces should be abolished, and the freed up funds should be used to strengthen what should ensure the security of the Russian Federation in the coming decades.

            The abolition implies the withdrawal from the combat strength and operation of all used equipment.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 7 December 2022 17: 41
              0
              Quote: Wedmak
              The abolition implies the withdrawal from the combat strength and operation of all used equipment.

              The Air Defense Forces, abolished in 1998, look at you with bewilderment. smile
              There is no more this type of aircraft. And the country's air defense with all the equipment remained, having joined the VKS.
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 7 December 2022 21: 19
                0
                "Plunged in". That is, in fact, they merged with the VKS. And where will dozens of large and expensive aircraft be poured into? What about submarines? Remodel to carry oil? And yes ... the TU-160 construction program apparently also needs to be covered up, as well as the development of PAK DA. Cool, so much money just to flush down the toilet. Very good advice. The Pentagon will drink directly without drying out for a month on such a holiday.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 8 December 2022 13: 39
                  +1
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  And where will dozens of large and expensive aircraft be poured into?

                  They will remain in Long-Range Aviation, having lost their nuclear weapons. Like B-1B for a potential enemy.
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  What about submarines?

                  They will be operated until they are replaced by silos and PGRKs. For 40% of strategic SBCs, this will take exactly 25-30 years.
                  Plus, the fleet will have an incentive to spend at least on OVR.
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  And yes ... the TU-160 construction program apparently also needs to be covered up, as well as the development of PAK DA.

                  And, excuse me, why do we need PAK YES? What tasks can only he perform and what "emes" and "swans" cannot?
                  We want to be again no pants but hat?
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  The Pentagon will drink directly without drying out for a month on such a holiday.

                  The Pentagon is already drinking without drying out, watching how crazy Ivans lower SSBNs one by one, without providing them with any cover. It's just some kind of holiday - naked and barefoot SLBM carrier in a bare positional area.
              2. gjkrjdybr50
                gjkrjdybr50 8 December 2022 19: 37
                -1
                In the air defense, they talked about this like this: "First, the Air Defense Forces were left without a country, and then the country was left without the Air Defense Forces," if you didn’t understand (or maybe you don’t know why), I can explain.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 9 December 2022 11: 40
                  +1
                  Quote: gjkrjdybr50
                  In the air defense, they talked about this like this: "First, the Air Defense Forces were left without a country, and then the country was left without the Air Defense Forces," if you didn’t understand (or maybe you don’t know why), I can explain.

                  So there it was not a matter of reorganizations, but of a general lack of money. Air defense forces with all their infrastructure (ZRV, RTV, communications, a bunch of remote "points", each of which must have a road) is a very expensive thing. Well, yes, ZRV flyers traditionally do not like and do not understand. smile
                  On the other hand, having two parallel aircraft, each of which is armed not only with its own modifications, but with unique aircraft models (Su-15, Tu-128, MiG-31) is too much. However, we also had (and still have) parallel ZRVs - the same S-300P and S-300V branches in common had only the first letter and three digits in the name.
                  1. gjkrjdybr50
                    gjkrjdybr50 9 December 2022 14: 08
                    +1
                    As I wrote, you don’t know, you have to explain. Somewhere in the early 80s, an idea arose in someone's smart heads that since the formations and units of the Air Defense Forces are located on the territories of the districts and cover in peacetime not only important objects, but also troops in places of permanent deployment, then why not subjugate their command of the districts, not only in operational terms, but also organizationally and introduce them into the districts. The idea was also fruitful in terms of personnel, departments with general posts appeared in the districts and the "digit capacity" of the districts increased. Well, the mind was enough not to touch the Air Defense Ministry, Leningrad and a number of other air defense associations. And away we go!!! During the exercises, air defense units "advancing" after the troops of the districts, folding and deploying iron and thousands of kilometers. cable, mastered new positions in places where the terrain simply actively "impeded" their combat work, diesel engines of the V-12 type and batteries of the 6ST-140 type were not issued from the warehouses of the district (there are no tanks in the state, but engines and batteries. tank), and other delights from SV. And as for the detection zones, the issuance of combat information, the zones of destruction of air defense systems displayed on maps and tablets and taken by landmen for engineering barriers and trenches, I don’t even want to talk. Parallel to this, the word "countries" disappeared from the name of the service of the RF Armed Forces "Country Air Defense Troops", and so the troops were left without a "country".
                    And in the 2s, after a series of reorganizations, and in fact the defeat, the air defense forces, on the rights of the armed forces, were introduced into the air forces, so the country was left without air defense. The combat parameters of the air defense system have significantly decreased, for example, the lower limit of radar information along the western border from 100 m (and in some places even lower), rose to 1000 m and higher (in some places up to 5000 m, the radar field in the North disappeared completely and now no one knows how and where the Americans fly in the Barents, Kara and other northern seas, the zones of destruction of air defense missiles at objects from solid ones have become focal in accordance with the performance characteristics of air defense systems... This is how the troops were left without a country, and the country without air defense.
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 9 December 2022 18: 31
                      +1
                      Quote: gjkrjdybr50
                      Somewhere in the early 80s, an idea arose in someone's smart heads that since the formations and units of the Air Defense Forces are located on the territories of the districts and cover in peacetime not only important objects, but also troops in places of permanent deployment, then why not subjugate their command of the districts, not only in operational terms, but also organizationally and introduce them into the districts.

                      In short, the ground forces, unable to cope with their own military air defense, decided to ruin the country's air defense forces as well.
                      Quote: gjkrjdybr50
                      Well, the mind was enough not to touch the Air Defense Ministry, Leningrad and a number of other air defense associations.

                      Ahhh ... that's why they didn't talk about it here - the St. Petersburg people taught us, and we went through practice in the Moscow Region.
                      Quote: gjkrjdybr50
                      During the exercises, air defense units "advancing" after the troops of the districts, folding and deploying iron and thousands of kilometers. cables, mastered new positions in places where the terrain simply actively "impeded" their combat work

                      Gorgeous. And it didn’t even occur to anyone that the materiel and staff of the country’s air defense forces were sharpened to work on pre-equipped terrain from prepared positions. The same trailers and semi-trailers appeared in the country's air defense systems for a reason, but because their carrying capacity and dimensions made it possible to equip cabins for 24/7 duty and ensure the safety of traction (by driving it after being deployed under the roof).
                      However, nothing changes - which was shown by the claims of the army that the "Shells" poorly cover their columns on the march. smile
                      Quote: gjkrjdybr50
                      And in the 2s, after a series of reorganizations, and in fact the defeat, the air defense forces, on the rights of the armed forces, were introduced into the air forces, so the country was left without air defense.

                      At the time of the merger, the state of the air defense forces did not differ much from the state of the armed forces as a whole. Russia would not have pulled two parallel aviation - and the air defense forces would have remained with one air defense system and RTV.
                      1. gjkrjdybr50
                        gjkrjdybr50 9 December 2022 19: 29
                        0
                        And even now aviation is not part of the air defense, although individual armies are called the Air Force and Air Defense. Air defense divisions organizationally consist of ZRV and RTV units, the Air Force is subordinate to the Army Aviation Chief. Air defense aviation would have been drawn, but instead of highly specialized machines, it was decided to build multifunctional ones and the decision on aviation was "in the palm of your hand."
        3. Grancer81
          Grancer81 14 December 2022 20: 06
          -1
          Yes, yes, right across the country, right now, DRGs with MANPADS are dangling behind their backs ....
      3. Eule
        Eule 7 December 2022 12: 13
        +4
        Quote: Wedmak
        destruction of the most mobile and covert systems of nuclear strike weapons

        It was carried out by Gorbachev.
        Wake trail of submarines - comes to the surface. The positional areas of the PGRK are known, and most importantly, in bad weather, traces remain in the snow. Plus low habitability.
        Silos have also been studied from space, aiming at them is as easy as shelling pears, they do not drive.
        But the really secretive BZHRKs were ordered to destroy the labeled one, and he happily agreed. Indistinguishable from space from a "thermos", habitable for calculation, well protected from DRGs, the complexes were cut into scrap metal. Although for a continental country with a developed railway network, this is a superior analogue of everything else.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 7 December 2022 12: 50
          -1
          And now, on the advice of a commentator from the forum, you need to finally finish it off?
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 7 December 2022 17: 44
          +2
          Quote: eule
          But the really secretive BZHRKs were ordered to destroy the labeled one, and he happily agreed. Indistinguishable from space from a "thermos", habitable for calculation, well protected from DRG complexes

          ... are perfectly visible in the ACS of the railway. And all their movements are controlled by a civilian agency - because, unlike PGRKs with their own road network, BZHRKs go only along civilian routes.
          What's the use of disguise if all you need to determine the location of the composition is one mishandled Cossack with access to the system at road level?
          1. Eule
            Eule 7 December 2022 21: 55
            0
            Quote: Alexey RA
            perfectly visible in the automated control system of the railway

            Look for Bek Abdulaev's memoirs "Call Sign Cobra". There he describes the exercises for catching the BZHRK. the "mishandled Cossack" burned himself, bringing nothing. The automated control system shows the movements of "thermoses" belonging to different LLCs and individual entrepreneurs. Which of them is recorded on the deaf grandmother of the commander of some HF - no one will know.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 8 December 2022 13: 42
              +1
              Quote: eule
              The automated control system shows the movements of "thermoses" belonging to different LLCs and individual entrepreneurs. Which of them is recorded on the deaf grandmother of the commander of some HF - no one will know.

              Covertly and imperceptibly sneaks elephant in a china shop a train that has appeared out of nowhere on a well-known stretch or station closest to it and moving with special security measures.
              I'm not talking about the well-known problem with the launch - because only specially prepared sections of the track were suitable for the combat work of the BZHRK.
    2. Alex_mech
      Alex_mech 7 December 2022 11: 21
      0
      Is it a hat according to Senka? If a regional power, then it is necessary to deal with regional affairs, and not threaten NATO to "gather money"
    3. alexey sidykin
      alexey sidykin 7 December 2022 18: 00
      -2
      Quote: Victor Leningradets
      The Russian Federation is a regional, not a superpower

      This is when the leaders of other countries stood in line to meet the leaders of regional powers ... or called to find out what Putin thinks ...
  28. AA17
    AA17 7 December 2022 08: 27
    +1
    Let's recall the discussion of the article at the VO - "The "Land" at the head of the Aerospace Forces will cause irritation among military pilots" and see: what did we get in the Aerospace Forces? I will include some comments.
    Titsen (Ig Titsen) September 22, 2017 08:49 AM
    "... I am currently holding the post of technical manager in civilian life, having a not quite specialized military-technical education.
    Yes, I am re-learning; yes, I listen to deputies who are competent in technical matters; yes, I cope with the tasks and problem situations; yes, our organization has been the best among 12 similar organizations in the holding for the third year already; but I clearly understand that at each place there should be a trained professional leader, and not just a leader standing next to the profession, especially in such a large and specific "organization" as the VKS !!!!!!..."
    https://topwar.ru/125580-suhoputchik-vo-glave-vks-vyzovet-sredi-voennyh-letchikov-razdrazhenie.html#comment-id-7367730

    АА17 (Alexander Anatolyevich) 22 September 2017 10:27
    "... I do not at all understand the motives of the people who promote S. Surovikin to the leadership of the Aerospace Forces. As the commander of the Aerospace Forces, who has no experience in working in these troops, he will be able to make the right decision in an acute special situation, when at that moment it is necessary to mobilize all his knowledge, experience and professional intuition.Will he be able to take responsibility for making a difficult but right decision.Or will he transfer the decision to his deputies.(I would not really like an ophthalmologist surgeon to perform complex heart operations, albeit with the highest qualification categories).
    https://topwar.ru/125580-suhoputchik-vo-glave-vks-vyzovet-sredi-voennyh-letchikov-razdrazhenie.html#comment-id-7367730

    pvv113 (Vladimir) 22 September 2017 08:59
    "... In aviation, specialists of all ranks work to fulfill a common task, but each in his own profile. There are pilots, navigators, engineers and technicians of various specialties. Each solves his own range of tasks. A leader cannot be a specialist in all areas at the same time, therefore they command usually those who are prepared to carry out the main final task.In the Air Force, this is a pilot.In the USSR and then in its former republics, there was always a pilot at the head of aviation.
    Now imagine that this task was assigned to a tanker."
    https://topwar.ru/125580-suhoputchik-vo-glave-vks-vyzovet-sredi-voennyh-letchikov-razdrazhenie.html#comment-id-7367730
  29. Vincent price
    Vincent price 7 December 2022 08: 32
    +3
    The history of the majority of the empire ends with a senseless and mediocre military campaign.
  30. steelmaker
    steelmaker 7 December 2022 08: 33
    +5
    "that our star-bearing military leaders, after the attack on the airfields of Saki in the Crimea, Veretye ​​in the Pskov region, Millerovo in Rostov and Shaikovka in the Kaluga regions, did not draw any conclusions."
    I constantly write about the level of education of the authorities. Ignorants and mediocrity rule! If our president, 100 years have passed, Lenin is to blame for everything, then what can we say about his entourage! Only Soviet galoshes can wear "Homeland to trade"!
  31. fiberboard
    fiberboard 7 December 2022 08: 35
    +2
    What relation can land general Surovikin have to the Air Force? Why won't they put a pilot in chief?
    1. Alex_mech
      Alex_mech 7 December 2022 11: 24
      -1
      Why a pilot and not an engineer? The Commander-in-Chief should not fly?
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      1. Churchill
        Churchill 7 December 2022 12: 22
        +5
        Such "patriots" are worse than the enemy.
        1. User_neydobniu
          User_neydobniu 7 December 2022 14: 03
          +4
          Such "patriots" are worse than the enemy.

          Why worse, this is the enemy. Thanks to the yelling of whom, in society, the image of a combat-ready army was maintained, but in reality the latter were plundered and taken away?
          For good, such cheers "patriots" should now go under the article as traitors to the motherland, but who will plant their own?
          1. gjkrjdybr50
            gjkrjdybr50 8 December 2022 20: 01
            0
            Well no. According to the article, those who, at the height of the war, arrange a srach and demand that the replacement of commanders begin, who, in his opinion, command incorrectly, urgently begin to reduce nuclear forces, tk. their structure is not correct and they advise the whole country to start moaning and shedding tears, because. "FSE is gone, the plaster is removed and we screwed everything up!"
            My eldest is preparing to fly there for the third time. And why should I voice your groans as a parting word to him, say don’t go, I’ll hide you in the country, but when you come, don’t fight, everything has already been stolen and our country is not the same, and a crowd of stonotists howls at the VO that we are fighting wrong and “Fse is gone! "
            What are you guys all about. villagers? What do you write in your comments? Is there still something human, masculine left in the brains? Here are the rules of the site do not allow to explain what you are smart people!
            1. User_neydobniu
              User_neydobniu 9 December 2022 05: 50
              0
              According to the article, those who, at the height of the war, arrange a srach and demand to begin personnel replacement of commanders who, in his opinion, command incorrectly, should go.

              Well, first of all, which of the commanders-in-chief and when did he declare war? CBO is coming, unexpectedly right? The SVO has lasted for 9 months. During this time, 55% of the territories taken at the beginning of the company were lost, civilians were mobilized without martial law, cities were surrendered that joined the Russian Federation by referendum ... Is it necessary to keep the command that made these miscalculations?
              Such reasoning can only be a patriot of Ukraine who is satisfied with this state of affairs, therefore, under the guise of cheers "patriots" hides the notorious TsIPSO of Ukraine
              1. gjkrjdybr50
                gjkrjdybr50 9 December 2022 13: 35
                +1
                Oh how! Typical "Catch the thief!". And why didn’t they speak out throughout the commentary? No arguments or "modestly" decided to remain silent? This is just the TsIPSO training manual: "Throw in what is not the main thing and together we will unwind with a shift." Are you sure that you correctly evaluate the actions of the command of the RF Armed Forces while sitting on your couch? Do you want to propose yourself for positions in the leadership of the RF Armed Forces? Unsatisfied ambitions do not allow to live in peace? Maybe introduce yourself and lay out your track record, but we (at least in VO) need to know the "future leadership" of the RF Armed Forces? Something tells me that if there is such a list, then it is a very short and extreme position like "assistant to the deputy of something somewhere." Only a person who has never led anything serious (except for his wife, or maybe vice versa) can, during the conduct of hostilities, begin to replace the command of the operation and the headquarters that prepared it. Even Stalin rarely made such decisions (in case of obvious incompetence or even worse, betrayal). But you are cooler than Stalin and you know how to do everything: from collecting waste to leading the country. How did you amateurs and mediocrity get your inadequate writings. Does it mean I'm right? Is there anything inherent in a Russian person, a peasant, that some have left? Where is honor, conscience, responsibility, where is courage, courage, selflessness, readiness for self-sacrifice? I'm not talking about those who are in the trenches, in positions, in headquarters, these guys have it all in abundance. This is me about those who groan in the net, about those who spread their tongues and confuse people with their gossip, trying to sow uncertainty and fear in the fragile minds of young people, about those who pursue their vile selfish goals to the detriment of the Motherland, the state, to the detriment of their people, I'm talking about those who have taken the path of information betrayal (by intent or by their foolishness).
                A little pompous, but tired of being silent and listening to snot and lamentations of obvious and implicit traitors. I have the honor.
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  33. Russian Patriot
    Russian Patriot 7 December 2022 09: 19
    +9
    I would like to get an explanation from the author on how to line up aircraft at the base in Engels.
    1. Vashek
      Vashek 7 December 2022 09: 35
      -2
      Under damned socialism, combat aircraft were in anti-nuclear hangars.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 7 December 2022 10: 01
        +3
        Recall the size of those planes and remember the size of modern ones. And especially the size of bombers and strategists.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 7 December 2022 11: 41
        +2
        Quote from Vashek
        Under damned socialism, combat aircraft were in anti-nuclear hangars.

        An anti-nuclear hangar for an aircraft with dimensions of 50 x 50 meters? belay
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 7 December 2022 12: 52
          +3
          Preferably underground. With the launch and return of the aircraft right in the hangar. And an ice cream stand in every hangar, please.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 7 December 2022 17: 49
            +1
            Quote: Wedmak
            Preferably underground. With the launch and return of the aircraft right in the hangar.

            It's called the SHPU. laughing

            Only this... there is no need to return. My father told me how, during tests of a solid-propellant ICBM, the mortar launch worked, and the engine turned on with a delay - when the rocket had already half entered back. In general, only a stub of the board was found from their block in an armored case with asbestos thermal insulation. And the fence around the silo in some places resembled frames from the Terminator - with neatly melted holes.
            1. gjkrjdybr50
              gjkrjdybr50 9 December 2022 16: 08
              0
              silos at the airport? What are you going to do there?
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 9 December 2022 18: 36
                0
                Quote: gjkrjdybr50
                silos at the airport? What are you going to do there?

                I mean that the functions of the proposed SW. Wedmak (in sarcasm mode) underground anti-nuclear hangar for a strategic missile carrier with the launch and return of the aircraft right in the hangar much better perform silos with ICBMs in it. smile
      3. gjkrjdybr50
        gjkrjdybr50 9 December 2022 16: 06
        +1
        I would like to understand: what is an anti-nuclear hangar? Can you explain by the simplicity of the soul? Wikipedia: "At the military airfields of fighter and attack aircraft, capital shelters are used, called reinforced concrete arched shelters (ZHBU), which are not hangars."
        Was it hard to read on your own?
      4. gjkrjdybr50
        gjkrjdybr50 9 December 2022 19: 34
        0
        "Small" ones are still in the ZhBU, in extreme cases, in a bunding, but where did you see strategists or transport workers in the "hangar"?
    2. Dismas
      Dismas 7 December 2022 09: 47
      0
      You can remember how the combat aircraft stood at the border airfields on the morning of June 22, 1941 ... judging by the losses, it is also the same for the Hans. In general, "there are many geometric options" (from a joke about the rabbi and dead chickens).
      1. gjkrjdybr50
        gjkrjdybr50 9 December 2022 16: 09
        0
        Do you remember? Don't be lazy, tell me.
    3. bandabas
      bandabas 7 December 2022 14: 14
      +1
      He has no time. It is necessary to cut the loot at the keyboard.
  34. Vashek
    Vashek 7 December 2022 09: 34
    +6
    For the first part. The worst defender is the hungry one. And they have been starving for 30 years. And with such a demand. Now they are throwing a piece, but the people have already died out.
    On the second. In 2011, the LAST RTV school in St. Petersburg was closed. The lumps were transferred to Voronezh, and the teachers left. No one to watch the sky, and especially nothing.
    It's just that any punctures and stupidity once crawl out into the open. It's bad if it's bloody.
    But what was football and the Olympics.
    1. Eule
      Eule 7 December 2022 12: 16
      -2
      Quote from Vashek
      and the Olympics

      Yeah. When, simultaneously with the Beijing Championship, there was the Moscow Championship ... in which the finalists showed better results than the participants in the Olympiad. How it happened that the best did not go - there is still no answer. And this is in shooting, where objectivity in the form of scoring is ideal.
      Okay, some figure skating, the marks are subjective there ...
    2. gjkrjdybr50
      gjkrjdybr50 9 December 2022 16: 15
      0
      You are lying about SPVURE (military institute). Transferred to Yaroslavl to the base of YaVVZRU, as a faculty of RTV, And there is someone to watch the sky, and there is also something to follow. It's not decent to PR like that, for the sake of "+" or what?
  35. rica1952
    rica1952 7 December 2022 09: 45
    0
    The military tribunal and these commanders from Barvikha, together with the mummered minister of defense, let the Supreme decide. But it seems that everything will be hushed up again.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 7 December 2022 10: 04
      +2
      How smart - the tribunal immediately. So it can immediately hand over to Ukraine both the Crimea and the Kuban, and at the same time our nuclear forces, which is already there. They seem to have demanded something like that the other day.
      1. dauria
        dauria 7 December 2022 11: 41
        +1
        How smart - the tribunal immediately.

        Are there any signs of criminal negligence? There is. Just the case for the prosecutor. And there is a tribunal, let them decide. Not all switchmen sit. Those who hired, prepared and checked the switchman should be planted in the first place. And then we have the most responsible worker - a kindergarten teacher and a minibus driver. And before the court, and before the conscience answer.
        Remember the joke about Rust? "The German sat down on Red Square and crushed three generals"
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 7 December 2022 12: 53
          +1
          Are there any signs of criminal negligence? There is. Just the case for the prosecutor.

          Let the UK deal with the prosecutor.
      2. Alex_mech
        Alex_mech 7 December 2022 12: 12
        0
        No, Ukraine demanded to refuse. There were no demands in whose favor to refuse or simply cut down. So a free-will can be cut, or it can be sold.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 7 December 2022 12: 55
          0
          Mm ... knowing the rhetoric of the 404th, these nuclear weapons, if they fail to grab them for themselves, will be given to the states. And then the whole world will end.
          1. Alex_mech
            Alex_mech 7 December 2022 16: 17
            0
            And then the whole world will end.

            Why will the whole world come to an end? What's going to happen? Will Americans get richer and decide to destroy the world? So does it work?
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 7 December 2022 16: 51
              +1
              So does it work?

              Suddenly... they don't stand on ceremony even now. And when they have only China left of their opponents ... It will roam in full.
              1. Alex_mech
                Alex_mech 8 December 2022 10: 22
                0
                And it is clear that the Americans are simply evil and want everyone to feel bad, including the Americans themselves.
    2. Alex_mech
      Alex_mech 7 December 2022 12: 08
      0
      And what should the supreme decide? He appointed these people, they personally did not let him down
  36. guerilla707
    guerilla707 7 December 2022 09: 53
    +2
    According to the available information from competent people, the flight to Engels occurred from the eastern side, where the border with Kazakhstan is very close, in the region of 300 km
    1. wladimirjankov
      wladimirjankov 7 December 2022 16: 33
      +1
      we still don't know where and how we got fucked?.
      1. guerilla707
        guerilla707 10 December 2022 13: 21
        0
        Yes, it seems, according to the wreckage of the "Strizh", Tu-141
  37. ASDASD
    ASDASD 7 December 2022 10: 14
    -3
    "This is how it will be - they are our strategic bombers, we are their transformers."
    Yeah, we just blew an autotransformer near Odessa! wassat
  38. trophy
    trophy 7 December 2022 10: 19
    0
    Unfortunately, the result is correct. And judging by the lack of reaction, the dynamics will be negative. Everything that happens in the country is the result of two things: the first is an insane personnel policy when the leadership of any field of activity is appointed on the principles of personal devotion and political sterility of the candidate and not at all on the principle of professional competence or even just the desire to be useful to society. There are a lot of examples in the form of "professional" deputy corps, the Minister of Defense with the education of an architect, land commander of the commander-in-chief of the VKS, etc. And the second is the socio-economic model of the state when the achievement of personal well-being by any means and means is at the forefront. without taking into account either the long-term consequences of such actions or the consequences for others and the state as a whole. So there will be more.
  39. Iuriy Snitko
    Iuriy Snitko 7 December 2022 10: 32
    0
    Nothing absolutely terrible, except for the fear itself. The drone flew because our air defense was not tuned to the flying "crow". The damage is small, but the panic can be inflated. , up to .... deep Russia.
  40. MaKeNa
    MaKeNa 7 December 2022 10: 43
    -2
    10 months of war and nothing changes! The same mess, maybe !!! And sadly, it doesn't seem to change!
  41. The comment was deleted.
  42. Alex_mech
    Alex_mech 7 December 2022 10: 44
    +2
    an ancient Soviet drone from the Tupolev Design Bureau (... Tu-141 "Strizh" .. Tu-143
    It is very doubtful, and if so, it means that there was simply no PVP at the rate. None. These Tu-141 and Tu-143 are not at all "intelligent vehicles", they cannot fly at 10 meters with terrain envelope and are not at all stealth technology from the future. Those. Not just a disgrace, but a shame-a shame.
    Residents of Engels write in social networks that the city has a decent number of refugees from Ukraine
    That is, the refugees brought with them a couple of dozen explosives and entered the airfield? But what about the CCTV footage of the sound of the jet engine and the explosion after that? If this is the DRG, then the SBU is head and shoulders above the Mossad, the CIA and the Chinese triads. Then it's not even a shame, a shame, but a shame ^3
    1. wladimirjankov
      wladimirjankov 7 December 2022 17: 00
      +1
      Of course, a typical swift from Ukraine would hardly have flown to Engels. But if it is modernized with the replacement of the engine (motor sich), control and navigation systems either from its own Neptune or from the same satellite-guided chimera, then it could well do it. Yes, and they could have launched it not from Ukraine at all, but from somewhere closer, for example, from the Astrakhan or Kazakhstan steppes. It is quite possible to bring him there in trucks. They transported explosives from Bulgaria through Georgia to the Crimean bridge. Then this explains why our air defense did not notice him. But it is still an unjustified failure and a disgrace to our air defense and its command.
  43. Sergey Valov
    Sergey Valov 7 December 2022 10: 45
    +10
    A bit of educational program for the author.
    “A pilot unprepared to the ideal” - he is ideal only in fairy tales, in real life he does not exist. What happens - not to let an imperfect pilot fly? And how to make him, a poor fellow who does not fly, an ideal pilot ???
    “In the conditions of warfare, equipment is operated much more actively than in peacetime, this is understandable. But with a change in operating conditions, it is necessary to change the conditions for servicing and repairing aircraft ”- nothing needs to be changed, you just need to service the equipment in accordance with the standards, but this is already a human factor.
    “Everything gets tired: both technology and people. It is easier with people, but with the repair of equipment again difficulties ”- exactly the opposite - equipment is both more reliable and withstands more than a person. It’s not just that 1,5 - 2 crews are kept on one plane. And it is easier to assess the state of technology than a person, a person, you know, a dark thing.
    “But here the more flights, the greater the accident rate” - the accident rate in aviation is estimated as the percentage of accidents / disasters (and these are different things) per flight hours. So, dear author, the more plaque, the lower the accident rate. I hope you don't need to explain why.
    “Aircraft can be safely divided into two groups: old and not very old” - by and large, it doesn’t matter what age a particular aircraft is, its technical condition is important, and this is primarily determined by the development of a resource. You can continue the analysis of the article further, but there is no desire.
    There are reasonable thoughts in the article, for example, about the lack of caponiers at airfields.
  44. Losyara
    Losyara 7 December 2022 10: 51
    -3
    Until they start shooting and imprisoning for negligence, inaction and fraud, nothing will change in the Red Banner.
    1. Alex_mech
      Alex_mech 8 December 2022 10: 15
      0
      After the first execution of one engineer, you will immediately lose the rest. Nobody wants to risk their lives. It is better to trade in a civilian market than to expect to be shot every day.
  45. Cottodraton
    Cottodraton 7 December 2022 10: 52
    +5
    If you don’t know about Irkutsk, then you don’t need to write anything! Otherwise, the article is more like whining about "making turnips" on the resource.
    I'll reveal the secret! Planes fall everywhere, including mega-super-sophisticated ones. Another thing is that you need to make hyperbolic reviews of some planes and not notice others ... Planes regularly crashed in the USSR. Only there for some reason they hushed it up, like the United States now
  46. Tank destroyerSU-100
    Tank destroyerSU-100 7 December 2022 10: 54
    +1
    Quote: Evil 55
    The fact of the matter is that the Necessary, Important and Amateurs rule the modern world .. hi Literacy, Consistency and Reasonable decisions in it have long been no longer a worthy place.

    Personal devotion and pleasures for the top, that's all that is needed to become a minister in modern Russia.
  47. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 7 December 2022 10: 54
    0
    They began to fly more, they began to fall ....... and the Strategists, as they flew, and fly now they only have added launches. Here the complex and the service staff and pilots ....... I’ll even add if they have sharply increased the production of new aircraft and there may be problems with acceptance.
  48. Alexander Rasmukhambetov
    Alexander Rasmukhambetov 7 December 2022 10: 55
    +1
    The mess is everywhere, as it began in the 90s. so it doesn't end.