Military Review

The new generation stealth bomber B-21 Raider is presented in the USA, but the issue with the dimensions of the compartments for hypersonic missiles has not been resolved

128
The new generation stealth bomber B-21 Raider is presented in the USA, but the issue with the dimensions of the compartments for hypersonic missiles has not been resolved

The new strategic bomber B-21 Raider was presented by the American military-industrial company Northrop Grumman, as the company reports on its social network account.


The presentation of the newest US Air Force aircraft took place at the company's plant in Palmdale, California. The event was attended by the head of the Pentagon, Lloyd Austin. This was reportedly the first public presentation of a US Air Force bomber in 34 years. The last time the Air Force presented the B-2 Spirit strategic bomber in this way was in 1988.

The B-21 Raider is a continuation of the line of stealth bombers with advanced camouflage technology. According to the developers, the B-21 Raider is the world's first bomber, not even the fifth, but the sixth generation. The aircraft is capable of carrying along with conventional and nuclear weapons. In the future, it is planned to arm it with hypersonic missiles. True, now the question arose of how the dimensions of the internal compartments fit under them. According to some reports, for those hypersonic missiles that are being tested on a carrier such as the B-52, the internal compartments of the B-21 Raider are not suitable. It turns out that a strategic-type stealth bomber will carry them on an external sling? Strange decision. Or you will have to change the dimensions of the missiles themselves.

The first bombing flight will be made next year, although according to the initial plans of the Air Force command, it was supposed to take place as early as 2019.

As the American publication 19FortyFive wrote earlier, the main goal of the B-21 Raider is to break through the air defense of a potential enemy - Russia and China.
Author:
Photos used:
Northrop Grumman
128 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. neworange88
    neworange88 3 December 2022 08: 26
    +9
    According to the developers, the B-21 Raider is the world's first bomber, not even the fifth, but the sixth generation.


    By what criteria? And what about not the tenth generation right away? I understand that PR is needed, but not by the same amount. In my opinion, this is an improved and cheaper version of the B-2.

    The aircraft uses cloud technologies that allow creating its “digital twin” to control the performance of combat missions. The B-21 Raider is named after Lieutenant Colonel James Doolittle, who during World War II commanded a bombing operation against Japan in response to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Ellsworth (South Dakota).

    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5705723





    The cost of the bombers is unknown. Previously (in 2010), the Air Force called the price of $ 550 million per unit, subject to the purchase of a batch of 100 pieces. Adjusted for inflation, the cost of one B-21 Raider today is $753 million, but this is just a preliminary estimate.
    Kathy Warden, chief executive of Northrop Grumman, which is developing the Raider, said that although the aircraft looks like a B-2 on the outside, this resemblance completely disappears inside. We are talking about completely new computing capabilities of the systems installed on board, and advanced software.


    Other innovations include improved materials and coatings to make it even more invisible, new ways to control electromagnetic radiation, with which the B-21 Raider can deceive enemy radars and disguise itself as other objects. And finally, new engines. “When we talk about low observability, it's incredibly low observability. You'll hear it, but you won't actually see it," Worden said. She also said that the B-21 Raider will be slightly smaller than the B-2, but at the same time its range will increase. Six B-21 Raiders are currently in production. The Air Force plans to build 100 aircraft that can carry both conventional and nuclear bombs, both with and without a crew. Both the Air Force and Northrop also point to the relatively rapid development of the Raider project, with only seven years from the conclusion of the contract to today's debut.

    https://www.ixbt.com/news/2022/12/03/b-21-raider.html
    1. Asad
      Asad 3 December 2022 08: 45
      0
      We will not congratulate the enemies, we are waiting for our PAK-DA.
      1. Skunks
        Skunks 3 December 2022 08: 49
        -3
        Quote: ASAD
        We will not congratulate the enemies, we are waiting for our PAK-DA.

        I'm joining.. hi The United States has a lot of money (printing press) ..
        Let's see who will take
        1. Stoler
          Stoler 3 December 2022 10: 30
          0
          Well, we waited for the Su-57 and what? WHERE ARE YOU !!!???? AU!!!!! negative
      2. neworange88
        neworange88 3 December 2022 08: 52
        +5
        What is there to congratulate? You can congratulate its creators with Zumvalt. I think the price will soon increase to 10 billion dollars apiece.
        Note that this destroyer is one of three ships of its class built under a special program. It provided for the construction of 32 Zamvolt-class destroyers, but due to the high cost, the project had to be reduced to three units. The cost of one such ship cost the US treasury $ 9 billion. Although it was initially assumed that the project would cost several times cheaper.

        https://topcor.ru/29702-amerikanskij-jesminec-zumvalt-podorozhal-do-9-milliardov-i-trebuet-novyh-vlozhenij.html

        According to PAK YES.
        According to the Izvestia newspaper, in an article by Anton Lavrov, Roman Kretsul and Alexei Ramm, "Package agreement: the latest bomber has been scheduled for production. The next stage in the development of the world's most modern strategic missile carrier has begun," the Russian stealth bomber PAK DA (a promising aviation long-range aviation complex) should go into production in 2027. Preliminary tests are scheduled for April 2023, and state tests are scheduled for February 2026. This is stated in the contract of the Tupolev Design Bureau for the implementation of development work (R&D) to create means of rescuing the crew of the newest "strategist", a copy of the document is at the disposal of Izvestia [meaning the document from the public procurement website].

        https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3904733.html
        1. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A 3 December 2022 15: 11
          +2
          Quote from: neworange88
          What is there to congratulate? You can congratulate its creators with Zumvalt. I think the price will soon increase to 10 billion dollars apiece.

          If I have a printer and I print pieces of paper with my portrait, and the rest of the world, for one reason or another, is happy to exchange them for any product, then does it really matter to me how much my next toy will cost? As many as I need, I will print as many of my portraits. And I will put down any numbers on them that I want - from one to a hundred. No one will come to me and ask me to exchange my portraits for something real and significant.

          However, I remember there was one weirdo ... So I retired him for my own portraits, so that he would not get under his feet and set a bad example for the rest of the sheep.
          1. nickname7
            nickname7 5 December 2022 08: 26
            +1
            If I have a printer and I print pieces of paper

            I came across an article that they do not just print papers, but create employment and jobs in the country, in particular, hundreds of thousands of subcontractors are used in the production of the F-35, even small businesses are involved, the F-35 provides mass employment with high salaries, in turn, these workers feed the service industry. So printed pieces of paper seep into the people who buy 2 cars per family.
            In the Russian version, funds are often cut up by respected people and do not get to the people.
            1. Alex_mech
              Alex_mech 5 December 2022 10: 01
              0
              The myth about the printing press is as tenacious as the uselessness of stealth technology. I always ask those who believe in the printing press: Why does the printing press not work in Zimbabwe, but it works in the USA? For example, I have 10 million Zimbabwe dollars in one piece of paper, but it doesn’t make me a millionaire.
    2. Evil 55
      Evil 55 3 December 2022 10: 38
      -6
      As usual in the military-industrial complex .. The right hand does not even know what the left one is doing. The main thing is the development of funds and the fulfillment of the order. hi
    3. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 3 December 2022 15: 02
      -1
      Quote from: neworange88
      According to the developers, the B-21 Raider is the world's first bomber, not even the fifth, but the sixth generation.

      By what criteria? And what about not the tenth generation right away? I understand that PR is needed, but not by the same amount.

      Just now I said about the American "Patriots" about the fact that they are "the best of the best among the best." According to my own observations, the strongest athlete is the one who does not participate in competitions. It's easy to be the strongest in front of the cameras and on tamishawari. And the tatami will put everything in its place.

      I think this also applies to the next American "invisibles".
      So far, they are not at war with Russia, while, at best, they are ironing countries with a complete absence or a purely nominal presence of air defense - yes, at least the thirtieth generation, let them be called. Personally, for example, I have never been touched by the fact that the enemy calls himself the strongest.
      God forbid they try - a lot of things in the mind can happen.
      And the money spent on advertising, what a pity it will be! ...
      1. bayard
        bayard 4 December 2022 08: 33
        +1
        Quote: Zoldat_A
        While they are not at war with Russia, until, at best, they iron countries with a complete absence or a purely nominal presence of air defense

        First of all, they need the B-21 for the war with China - a means to quietly reach the launch line of the CD and launch them without entering the air defense zone. Over the Ocean. From a distance of 500 - 600 km.
        It is unlikely that such will be used against the Russian Federation - for this there is tactical aviation, which is capable of carrying both KR and UAB. In Europe, there are enough airfields against us for tactical aviation. But in the Asia-Pacific region, strategic aviation is needed more than anywhere else. By the way, the V-21 can also be used against our DV, where it will be justified.
        Conclusion - it is necessary to have long-range far-sighted ZGRLS. In our case, this is "Container". such an ZGRLS will not give exact coordinates for guidance, but for opening the beginning of a raid, for timely notification, it’s quite. And then - the take-off of long-range interceptors into the enemy's detection zone, an independent search using the OLS (radar is unlikely to be effective) and the destruction of the CD and their carriers.
        Well, bragging in big politics is a common phenomenon, it has always been that way. Remember - even England recently threatened us ... with a nuclear strike. But this is a country (conditionally) of one bomb ... If it is a Poseidon, then one will actually be enough, and in the time of Khrushchev, FIVE nuclear warheads with a capacity of 5 Mt were enough for England. ... and this is with the then accuracy.
    4. bayard
      bayard 4 December 2022 08: 17
      +1
      Quote from: neworange88
      The cost of the bombers is unknown. Previously (in 2010), the Air Force called the price of $ 550 million per unit, subject to the purchase of a batch of 100 pieces. Adjusted for inflation, today the cost of one B-21 Raider is $753 million.

      Well, at the cost, he also succeeded - like three Tu-160M2 in a new building. But the Tu-160M2 has four engines of much greater power than the two of the V-21.
      I don’t know why we will have a PAK YES (unless of course it will), but I’m sure that it’s cheaper by 3-4 times for sure.
      As for hypersonic missiles - those that are currently being tested on the B-52, they will definitely not be on the B-21 - the dimensions are wrong. Most likely in the internal compartments there will be new low-observable missile launchers with a range of 930 km. He will be able to take a lot of them and shoot them before entering the air defense zone. If a GZUR with a ramjet of acceptable dimensions appears later, then maybe they will. But this is not a matter of time.
  2. rocket757
    rocket757 3 December 2022 08: 29
    +2
    As the American publication 19FortyFive wrote earlier, the main goal of the B-21 Raider is to break through the air defense of a potential enemy - Russia and China.
    How and what will he "break through" ??? Anyone can explain this?
    1. Andrey Moskvin
      Andrey Moskvin 3 December 2022 08: 52
      0
      Probably, it means that the S-400, 500 will not notice him.
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 3 December 2022 09: 08
        +3
        Quote: Andrey Moskvin
        Probably, it means that the S-400, 500 will not notice him.

        There is no such thing as "not noticing". There is a concept "they will not be able to aim weapons until the enemy has shot their ammunition." Again, at what distance they will not be able to. For example, there was an assessment that the S-400 takes F-16 escort for 250 km, and it can accurately shoot at it when the aircraft approaches 120 km, but the F-35 is taken for escort only 45 km away. What seems to be the difference? Air defense systems have always had much more long-range missiles, which created significant problems for the Air Force. Stealth vehicles, taking into account the fact that air defense is less mobile than aviation, can enter the conventional air defense suppression line with minimal losses.
        1. Andrey Moskvin
          Andrey Moskvin 3 December 2022 09: 16
          +1
          That is, a conditional F-35 can shoot with conditional HARM kilometers from 70 with impunity?
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 3 December 2022 09: 22
            +2
            Quote: Andrey Moskvin
            That is, a conditional F-35 can shoot with conditional HARM kilometers from 70 with impunity?

            It seems HARM is not included in the F-35 compartment. But he can drop a planning bomb relatively calmly. Again, as they explained to me, everything needs to be planned, because the stealth projection for an aircraft at different irradiation angles is very different.
            1. Andrey Moskvin
              Andrey Moskvin 3 December 2022 09: 32
              +2
              Yes, you can break your head here, there are so many conditions, parameters, inputs. And some Serbian with a mobile phone, once and again, will redraw everything in his own way. (F-117) wink
              1. Aaron Zawi
                Aaron Zawi 3 December 2022 09: 37
                +1
                Quote: Andrey Moskvin
                Yes, you can break your head here, there are so many conditions, parameters, inputs. And some Serbian with a mobile phone, once and again, will redraw everything in his own way. (F-117) wink

                soldier
            2. Force
              Force 3 December 2022 11: 40
              +4
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              It seems HARM is not included in the F-35 compartment.

              This is not quite so ...
              https://missilery.info/missile/aargm-er
              1. Aaron Zawi
                Aaron Zawi 3 December 2022 12: 03
                +2
                Quote: Vigore
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                It seems HARM is not included in the F-35 compartment.

                This is not quite so ...
                https://missilery.info/missile/aargm-er

                Thank you.
        2. rocket757
          rocket757 3 December 2022 09: 21
          +1
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          Stealth vehicles, taking into account the fact that air defense is less mobile than aviation, can enter a conditional air defense suppression line with minimal losses.

          Do we have no air defense aviation?
          It is possible to "shoot back" outside the range of our air defense systems, but then the ammunition / missile itself will "break through" the defense, and what does the plane have to do with it? just a platform for launching ammunition ...
          In general, such a layering of invented, empty, in fact, terms ... then what to talk about?
          In general, empty PR, advertising, noodles on the ears of the layman ...
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 3 December 2022 09: 29
            +1
            Quote: rocket757

            In general, such a layering of invented, empty, in fact, terms ... then what to talk about?
            In general, empty PR, advertising, noodles on the ears of the layman ...

            I hope that it will not come to practical application. Because the B-21 is the aircraft for Armageddon. sad
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 3 December 2022 10: 05
              +2
              the armagid can start with ... yes, with anything, and the plane, in this matter, is not in the first place, if you look at it.
            2. mitroha
              mitroha 3 December 2022 10: 47
              -1
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              Because the B-21 is the aircraft for Armageddon.
              the "plane" for Armageddon is Yars, Mace, Sarmat, Minuteman. And the B-21 is an aircraft for profit by manufacturers
          2. Bingo
            Bingo 3 December 2022 10: 08
            0
            Quote: rocket757
            In general, empty PR, advertising, noodles on the ears of the layman ...

            For the first time, right? Here, for example, from the threshold there is a blunder about an air defense breakthrough, despite the fact that NOT ONE so-called Stealth has NEVER broken through anything, and strategists were generally used for carpet bombing, and everything except the 70-year-old ugly from the dump in Davis-Monsen are decommissioned - how these will be replaced by these is not just unclear, but impracticable
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 3 December 2022 10: 50
              0
              So advertising is the engine of trade, but, it’s precisely such a pepelats that no one needs naf, they won’t sell them ....
              More like an excuse for serious development costs, promising technology.
              Schaub was not mentioned there, but serious research was carried out there and application, some technologies will be found in other places ...
              In general, these are definitely only their affairs, under cover, from their own ... for, all this is very expensive, but without this, they can no longer.
              However ... others, basically, exactly the same.
              1. Bingo
                Bingo 3 December 2022 11: 00
                -1
                Quote: rocket757
                Schaub was not mentioned there, but serious research was carried out there and application, some technologies will be found in other places ...

                Don't you think that there are research institutes or experimental parties for research? And then when, for example, the F-35 STILL has not begun to be mass-produced - so the pre-production, experimental batches go (for the reason that the Pentagon wraps them up in military tests) - this is not fucking development-development is called, but cut as it is .
                Figuratively - like as if Khrushchev had managed to eliminate all artillery with aviation, because there are missiles ...
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 3 December 2022 11: 25
                  +1
                  It's THEIR business...
                  We cannot know everything ... the topic is extensive and Schaub understand, it is necessary to deal with this specifically, more carefully.
                  It is clear that in addition to technology, there are commercial interEs, serious guys, and what else is mixed in there ... no, no, I can’t guess, this is for specialists.
                2. Alex_mech
                  Alex_mech 5 December 2022 10: 04
                  0
                  875 pre-production prototype aircraft? Well, let's say that the Americans have such an experienced series. And how many foreign customers have abandoned the "unfinished" aircraft? Or maybe there are new orders?
        3. orionvitt
          orionvitt 3 December 2022 09: 56
          +2
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          but the F-35 is taken for escort only for 45 km

          You forget that the air defense system is layered. In addition to military and facility air defense, there are things like over-the-horizon radars that operate at frequencies that do not care about all these American "stealth" technologies. And they see for three thousand Km, They will not be able to direct missiles, but it’s not noticeable to get close, it won’t work.
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 3 December 2022 10: 04
            0
            Quote: orionvitt
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            but the F-35 is taken for escort only for 45 km

            You forget that the air defense system is layered. In addition to military and facility air defense, there are things like over-the-horizon radars that operate at frequencies that do not care about all these American "stealth" technologies. And they see for three thousand Km, They will not be able to direct missiles, but it’s not noticeable to get close, it won’t work.

            You can also detect the enemy from satellites. The issue of guidance remains the most acute.
            1. Bingo
              Bingo 3 December 2022 11: 02
              -3
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              The issue of guidance remains the most acute.

              Heard, heard. And then the F-22 ends up in Syria in the sight of drying, and this is not a pregnant penguin, but an air conquest fighter, which has neither radar nor stealth in fact
              1. Aaron Zawi
                Aaron Zawi 3 December 2022 11: 33
                +4
                Quote from Bingo
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                The issue of guidance remains the most acute.

                Heard, heard. And then the F-22 ends up in Syria in the sight of drying, and this is not a pregnant penguin, but an air conquest fighter, which has neither radar nor stealth in fact

                At pistol range? What's the problem? At such a distance, the MiG-21 would have taken the Raptor into sight.
                1. Bingo
                  Bingo 3 December 2022 13: 41
                  +1
                  The problem is that Su found the F-22, and the F-22 did not see Su until Sushka irradiated the mattress with a scope. That is - not only is invisibility a fiction, for the sake of this invisibility, the radar had to either be turned off or turned on, but it is already less powerful - it does not see shit.
                  Afrontal on all fronts.
                  PCS: and tell us why the "invisible" F-35s don't bomb Syria? Ah, the S-400 sees them ... But they are inconspicuous, for some reason, so the manufacturer and the non-legal Air Force of Azrailovka said! But all the same, they don’t bomb from the S-400 zone over Syria, otherwise they don’t read manuals and they’ll shoot down the fucking inconspicuous. And so they would - wow, would break through all the air defense! If air defense caught up with them
                  1. Aaron Zawi
                    Aaron Zawi 3 December 2022 13: 50
                    +4
                    Quote from Bingo
                    The problem is that Su found the F-22, and the F-22 did not see Su until Sushka irradiated the mattress with a scope. That is - not only is invisibility a fiction, for the sake of this invisibility, the radar had to either be turned off or turned on, but it is already less powerful - it does not see shit.
                    Afrontal on all fronts.
                    PCS: and tell us why the "invisible" F-35s don't bomb Syria? Ah, the S-400 sees them ... But they are inconspicuous, for some reason, so the manufacturer and the non-legal Air Force of Azrailovka said! But all the same, they don’t bomb from the S-400 zone over Syria, otherwise they don’t read manuals and they’ll shoot down the fucking inconspicuous. And so they would - wow, would break through all the air defense! If air defense caught up with them

                    Who told you that the Raptor did not see Drying? Your nepoldzhivye media? Well, keep trusting them. The raptor patrolled in its area of ​​​​responsibility and wanted to spit on someone else's fingering because he knew that nothing would happen to him. By the way, the Aleppo region where Liechtenstein aviation regularly operates in the area of ​​​​responsibility of the S-400 and S-300.
                    1. Bingo
                      Bingo 3 December 2022 14: 10
                      +2
                      Quote: Aron Zaavi
                      Who told you that the Raptor did not see Drying?

                      And, the combat mission of the raptor was to get into the sight of Su and cowardly shoot after that from the area of ​​the combat mission.
                      How tired this dumb-headed sect ... It's just curious - does he consider me an idiot, or is he himself with developmental delays?
                      1. Aaron Zawi
                        Aaron Zawi 3 December 2022 14: 32
                        +2
                        Quote from Bingo
                        Quote: Aron Zaavi
                        Who told you that the Raptor did not see Drying?

                        And, the combat mission of the raptor was to get into the sight of Su and cowardly shoot after that from the area of ​​the combat mission.
                        How tired this dumb-headed sect ... It's just curious - does he consider me an idiot, or is he himself with developmental delays?

                        Has the Raptor gone somewhere? As he flew along the demarcation line, he continued to fly. And his task was to prevent Syrian aircraft from entering the zone of Kurdish formations. And his pilot did not care that the Russian ace was showing off.
                  2. Flanker692
                    Flanker692 4 December 2022 00: 01
                    +1
                    Shh. Just don’t tell the Americans that they have sucked billions into fiction, otherwise they will inadvertently correct themselves.
                    How exactly does a fighter "see" an enemy aircraft that "turns on" the radar? SPO shows the direction. The maximum can operate with conditional close (strong signal) / far (weak signal). And, imagine, the open source software may not warn you about all scanning modes, and imagine there are several such modes on AFAR. But even if all the same, your open source software has detected the enemy, then you do not have the technical ability to immediately begin escort to defeat aircraft. You can fan out rockets in that direction in the hope that something there will be captured by their seeker. Or you can turn to the side where the light is and arrange a cowboy duel with a stealth fighter. But remember that he has already begun to irradiate you.
                    PS Inconspicuous F-35s do not bomb Syria because they are afraid of S-400s (of which there is already a whole complex at the Russian base), but inconspicuous F-16s are bombed because apparently they are not afraid, did I understand the logic correctly?
                    When putting the F-35 on duty, the Israeli Air Force PSS immediately stated that do not expect press releases on the use of the F-35s.
                    1. Aaron Zawi
                      Aaron Zawi 4 December 2022 06: 28
                      +2
                      Quote: Flanker692
                      Shh. Just don’t tell the Americans that they have sucked billions into fiction, otherwise they will inadvertently correct themselves.
                      How exactly does a fighter "see" an enemy aircraft that "turns on" the radar? SPO shows the direction. The maximum can operate with conditional close (strong signal) / far (weak signal). And, imagine, the open source software may not warn you about all scanning modes, and imagine there are several such modes on AFAR. But even if all the same, your open source software has detected the enemy, then you do not have the technical ability to immediately begin escort to defeat aircraft. You can fan out rockets in that direction in the hope that something there will be captured by their seeker. Or you can turn to the side where the light is and arrange a cowboy duel with a stealth fighter. But remember that he has already begun to irradiate you.
                      PS Inconspicuous F-35s do not bomb Syria because they are afraid of S-400s (of which there is already a whole complex at the Russian base), but inconspicuous F-16s are bombed because apparently they are not afraid, did I understand the logic correctly?
                      When putting the F-35 on duty, the Israeli Air Force PSS immediately stated that do not expect press releases on the use of the F-35s.

                      Brad.
              2. Negro
                Negro 3 December 2022 23: 48
                +1
                Quote from Bingo
                And then the F-22 ends up in Syria in the sight of drying, and this is not a pregnant penguin, but an air conquest fighter

                Didn't really understand the context. Are you interested in knowing why this flyer was not landed like Erdogan's friend? The option "there was no order" is not considered?
              3. Boa kaa
                Boa kaa 4 December 2022 16: 07
                -1
                Quote from Bingo
                And then the F-22 ends up in Syria in the sight of drying,

                Speaking of birds! Not only SU kept the F-22 in sight, but also Rafal ... After that, the sales of the Su-35 and Rafik flooded by leaps and bounds! The Indians were very impressed with this. True, they wanted to have "golden" Rafali in their stable, forgetting about the cost of their operation. Well, yes, Shiva is their judge ... No matter how later they lined up for the Su-75 with their "diversification" of weapons and equipment ...
                AHA.
                1. Alex_mech
                  Alex_mech 5 December 2022 10: 07
                  0
                  Do not line up, even at a discount will not take. They probably know a little more about eating, you and me.
            2. Negro
              Negro 3 December 2022 23: 49
              +1
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              You can also detect the enemy from satellites

              Not understood. Another one does air defense via satellite?
              1. Boa kaa
                Boa kaa 4 December 2022 16: 21
                -1
                Quote: Negro
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                You can also detect the enemy from satellites

                Not understood. Another one does air defense via satellite?

                You don't need to be snarky! Better look at the organizational structure of the Air Defense Forces. It also includes RTV. And now also the space echelon of the RTV system of the air defense / missile defense forces. So, our Israeli colleague is right. The RTR satellite very easily determines (with reference to coordinates) the moment of takeoff, correction and determination of one's place, radio exchange and other "technical" actions of all STELSs. yes
          2. Negro
            Negro 3 December 2022 23: 46
            0
            Quote: orionvitt
            You forget that the air defense system is layered

            And what does that change?
            Quote: orionvitt
            there are things like over-the-horizon radars that...

            ... cannot be used for airspace control.
            Quote: orionvitt
            They won’t be able to direct the missiles, but it’s not noticeable to get close, it won’t work.

            Basically it is not very clear why to do this.
            1. bayard
              bayard 4 December 2022 08: 54
              0
              Quote: Negro
              Quote: orionvitt
              there are things like over-the-horizon radars that...

              ... cannot be used for airspace control.

              For control, they just can, as well as for the timely opening of the beginning of the raid.
              Quote: Negro
              Basically it is not very clear why to do this.

              Raise IA and destroy incoming targets using OLS. Or destroy targets with ground-based air defense systems equipped with OLS (if the radars cannot capture) - the same Pantsir-S1, Tor-M2.
              The task of the ZGRLS is the timely opening of the beginning of the raid / approach of the enemy.
              A meter-range radar also cannot direct a fighter, and even more so a missile defense system, but they were and are the basis of the air defense forces on duty.
              1. Negro
                Negro 4 December 2022 10: 31
                +1
                Quote: bayard
                For control, they just can, as well as for the timely opening of the beginning of the raid.

                Naturally not. ZGRLS are used only and exclusively in early warning systems - a launching ICBM is an extremely peculiar object. It is impossible to single out an aircraft or a CR, identify them in air traffic, or understand at least approximately the course.
                Quote: bayard
                the same "Pantsir-S1", "Tor-M2".

                The farther the worse. Thor and Shell are useless against strategists.
                Quote: bayard
                A meter-range radar also cannot direct a fighter, and even more so a missile defense system

                Your Middle Eastern comrade explained everything correctly to you. The meaning of stealth is not to make the aircraft "invisible", but to disrupt the transfer of a target from an air defense radar or a fighter to an AGSN missile.

                And yes, unlike one country there, the Americans are not only going to fight the third world special military operation, but also use their aircraft for more sane tasks.
                Quote: bayard
                The F-35 is taken for escort much earlier, especially with the new MFRS from the S-500

                The S-500 was also missing.
                1. bayard
                  bayard 4 December 2022 12: 07
                  -1
                  Quote: Negro
                  Naturally not. ZGRLS are used only and exclusively in early warning systems - launching ICBMs

                  Not only .
                  Quote: Negro
                  It is impossible to single out an aircraft or a CR, identify them in air traffic, or understand at least approximately the course.

                  Perhaps - all civilian aircraft fly with transponders turned on and only along the air corridors designated for this and at a given flight level.
                  Quote: Negro
                  Thor and Shell are useless against strategists.

                  If they find themselves in the line of sight and at the range of destruction, then there are no problems for the optical guidance channel. Another thing is that strategists are unlikely to enter the zone of action of short-range air defense systems. It was specifically about the possibility of guidance on the OLS air defense systems.

                  Quote: Negro
                  Your Middle Eastern comrade explained everything correctly to you.

                  I do not need to explain correctly, I myself am in the past an officer of the air defense combat control.
                  Quote: Negro
                  Americans not only gathered to fight the third world special military operation,

                  smile Who knows where to go. No revolution has yet been observed in the combat use of aviation.
                  Quote: Negro
                  The S-500 was also missing.

                  What, didn't you hear? For several years now, all S-400 divisions have been re-equipped with the new AFAR MFRLS, the same as the S-500. And this is no longer news.
                  1. Negro
                    Negro 4 December 2022 15: 22
                    +2
                    Quote: bayard
                    Not only

                    OK, agreed. They are not used at all.
                    Quote: bayard
                    Perhaps - all civilian aircraft fly with transponders turned on and only along the air corridors designated for this and at a given flight level.

                    Firstly, no, and secondly, in any case, ZGRLS operators cannot carry out such a selection if the planes do not come from a relatively empty Arctic Ocean, but from the sky of Europe.
                    Quote: bayard
                    Another thing is that strategists are unlikely to enter the range of short-range air defense systems

                    Well, why did you drag the shell into the conversation about the B-21?
                    Quote: bayard
                    I myself am a former air defense commando officer.

                    As if "officers in the past" do not poison stories, politely speaking.
                    Quote: bayard
                    No revolution has yet been observed in the combat use of aviation.

                    Revolution is not required. Requires regular combat work. Arrived - unloaded - flew away.
                    Quote: bayard
                    For several years now, all S-400 divisions have been re-equipped with the new AFAR MFRLS, the same as the S-500. And this is no longer news.

                    Do you remember the notorious Yenisei? Nobody has ever seen him alive. Especially in parts.
        4. bayard
          bayard 4 December 2022 08: 48
          -1
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          but the F-35 is taken for escort only for 45 km.

          You have been misled. The F-35 is taken for escort much earlier, especially with the new MFRS from the S-500, to which all S-400 divisions are now being actively transferred.
          And the F-16 will show up earlier, especially if it has weapons on its hangers (and to whom is it dangerous without weapons?). But there is also a factor in the height of the target flight. it is unlikely that both the F-16 and the F-35 will approach the target at high altitude. and here the radio horizon (line-of-sight to the target) already matters. And with such a flight profile (low-altitude at the target), your numbers may turn out to be relevant.
          Fighter aircraft can fight much more effectively with such (inconspicuous) targets, but with the condition that they are equipped with sufficiently powerful and sensitive OLS.
          The Armed Forces of Ukraine have a certain number of S-300 systems, but they are of little use in the fight against the Kyrgyz Republic. The same may be true for the S-400 in low-profile target flight. Then a sufficient number of short-range air defense systems, but with sufficient BC: Tor, Pantsir-S1 \ SM, Buk-M2 \ M3, and fighter aircraft will be much more relevant. But an early warning from ZGRLS will be a very good help in this.
        5. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 4 December 2022 15: 51
          -1
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          Stealth vehicles, taking into account the fact that air defense is less mobile than aviation, can enter the conventional air defense suppression line with minimal losses.

          Colleague! Well, it’s impossible to approach the assessment of air defense / missile defense in such a "wooden" way! Look at the structure of our air defenses. In addition to ground-based RK, there is also an IA, which, by the way, also has long-range interceptors in the face of the MiG-31BM. Even the first versions of 31 with the antediluvian Barrier saw your STEALTH and moved abroad 500 km above the Arctic Ocean. (Let me remind you that air defense zones are cut by IA and RK along lines, zones, heights!) Therefore, the new MiG-41, which is supposedly already being sculpted, will most likely be ready to meet the RADER at distant frontiers.
          A few words about the means of detection of the B-21. Yes, we have a significant drawback of AWACS of the A-100 type (and even the A-50U), but this does not mean at all that our satellites of the RTR system at the geostationary station are not able to "see" the flattened "pancake" of the RADER in flight, to determine its W / L, K, V and aim long-range interceptors at it ...
          And there are also means of destruction: the R-77K is very welcome, they say, "invisible" ...
          Therefore, let them prepare to meet Russian "surprises" in international airspace. They, by definition, do not shine for any flights into our airspace!
          IMHO.
      2. rocket757
        rocket757 3 December 2022 09: 17
        +4
        There are more airspace control systems than you can imagine and development continues ...
        By the way, air defense is not only an air defense system, it is a whole complex of systems, means, control and countermeasures.
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 3 December 2022 09: 22
          0
          Quote: rocket757
          There are more airspace control systems than you can imagine and development continues ...
          By the way, air defense is not only an air defense system, it is a whole complex of systems, means, control and countermeasures.

          Конечно.
  3. Eroma
    Eroma 3 December 2022 08: 29
    +2
    And what is its feature as an entire 6th generation aircraft? what
    As it turned out, he cannot launch hypersonic missiles! lol What else can he or can't do? laughing
    1. Dilettante grandfather
      Dilettante grandfather 3 December 2022 08: 43
      +1
      He can participate in his own presentation, this has already been proven! laughing According to rumors, he will also rise into the air, but this is unverified information. lol
    2. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 3 December 2022 09: 26
      +1
      Quote: Eroma
      And what is its feature as an entire 6th generation aircraft? what
      As it turned out, he cannot launch hypersonic missiles! lol What else can he or can't do? laughing

      The designers probably do not have a complete answer to the first either. The machine has not even "stood on the wing" yet.
      As for the set of ammunition for the B-21, it is completely incomprehensible. But using it as a bomber, and not a missile carrier, is beyond stupidity.
      1. Eroma
        Eroma 3 December 2022 13: 04
        +1
        We prefer to use complex ammunition (almost intercontinental-range cruise missiles, or hypersonic missiles), from "non-complex platforms", and the Yankees create extremely complex platforms for the use of "simple" ammunition what
        Everything is clear with us, there is a Tu160 capable of delivering strikes without even entering the range of enemy fighter aircraft, or using hypersonic missiles that are really capable of breaking through any air defense today. We are developing PAK YES, which will do it imperceptibly bully everything is clear and understandable
        And what should this wunderwaffle do? Does it give bonuses to fighters, or drones, to jointly break through air defenses and hit targets with bombs? belay
        Or then they will fire normal rockets and it will differ from our PAK YES only in that it will be possible to control it through Starlink from Starbucks laughing
      2. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 3 December 2022 15: 16
        -1
        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        Quote: Eroma
        And what is its feature as an entire 6th generation aircraft? what
        As it turned out, he cannot launch hypersonic missiles! lol What else can he or can't do? laughing

        The designers probably do not have a complete answer to the first either.

        About that, not from the designers, but from marketers and PR managers, you need to ask. They know for sure and will tell so that everyone believes.
      3. cold wind
        cold wind 3 December 2022 19: 08
        +2
        Quote: Aaron Zawi

        As for the set of ammunition for the B-21, it is completely incomprehensible. But using it as a bomber, and not a missile carrier, is beyond stupidity.

        Why? The Americans want to build a workhorse, not a doomsday machine. His class is between strategic and tactical, forgotten long-range bombers. The dimensions are 2-20% smaller than the B-30, the range is about the same. Serial, economical engines. Obviously it is created for constant, routine work. Accordingly, the use of guided bombs for him will be the norm.
        It will be interesting whether the integration of the SM-6, in which case they will have a universal missile against ground, sea and air targets. ARRW may not fit, but HAWC will definitely fit.
      4. Negro
        Negro 3 December 2022 23: 56
        +1
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        But using it as a bomber, and not a missile carrier, is beyond stupidity.

        Kind of a dumb question. It is written in black and white that this is a replacement for all bombers, respectively, the AGM-181 Long Range Stand Off Weapon, the replacement for the AGM-86 ALCM, is implied by default. Well, all sorts of global strikes, of course.
    3. Alex_mech
      Alex_mech 5 December 2022 10: 12
      0
      The trick is that it is optionally manned, that is, both a drone and a "pilot" at the same time. At least that's the focus
  4. aszzz888
    aszzz888 3 December 2022 08: 32
    +1
    According to the developers, the B-21 Raider is the world's first bomber, not even the fifth, but the sixth generation.
    No one is responsible for the bazaar (s). You can move and 7,8,9 generations. laughing
  5. evgen1221
    evgen1221 3 December 2022 08: 35
    -1
    6th generation you say, but how can you prove it? Well, it’s overpriced and in general that they stuck, the gentleman must believe in his word)))
    1. Andrey Moskvin
      Andrey Moskvin 3 December 2022 08: 55
      -1
      B-2 how much did it cost, $2000000000? That was expensive, like Sivulf.
      1. engineer74
        engineer74 3 December 2022 11: 20
        +3
        I have a suspicion that the B-21 will be much cheaper, such a "B-2" made of g ... and sticks, PW F-119 engines without afterburners, avionics based on the F-35 and a large fuel tank ...
        Hence, by the way, the record development time. wink
        IMHO, of course. hi
        1. Andrey Moskvin
          Andrey Moskvin 3 December 2022 11: 33
          +1
          I didn’t understand you a little, the avionics are completely different, a monoplane fighter and a "flying wing"?
          1. engineer74
            engineer74 3 December 2022 12: 12
            +1
            Now aerodynamics is solved by finishing the software, and the hardware, radar, sensors, etc. - they don't care where they screw it smile
          2. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 3 December 2022 15: 27
            +2
            Quote: Andrey Moskvin
            I didn’t understand you a little, the avionics are completely different, a monoplane fighter and a "flying wing"?
            In fact, it is sometimes useful to understand the terminology
            Avionics (mixture of aviation and electronics) are electronic systems used on aircraft. Avionics systems include communication, navigation, display and control of several systems, as well as hundreds of systems that are installed on an aircraft to perform individual functions. They can be as simple as a searchlight for a police helicopter or as complex as a tactical system for an airborne early warning platform.


            In this regard, than, for example, such a thing for a monoplane
            different from the same, but for the "flying wing"?
            1. Andrey Moskvin
              Andrey Moskvin 3 December 2022 15: 49
              0
              Yes, apparently in modern realities it is more and more difficult to express correctly. You, I remember, are also "grammarnazi" laughing
              1. Zoldat_A
                Zoldat_A 3 December 2022 22: 55
                -1
                Quote: Andrey Moskvin
                You, I remember, are also "grammarnazi"

                I don’t fight with a stick in my hands for literacy in the comments. Yes, and he studied at school not an excellent student. I read a lot, so I try to express myself correctly, and I notice other people's grammatical errors, but I try not to pay attention. Although it is more pleasant to read comments that are written in Russian, and not in "democratic newspeak" "as it is heard, so it is written."

                This does not apply to you personally and to your comments in any way. This is so ... Reasoning on general topics.

                Here, regarding the monoplane and the "flying wing", the question is not grammatical, but terminological, not related to spelling, but to technology. Therefore, I consider the accusation of "grammarnazism" to be inappropriate.
  6. Dilettante grandfather
    Dilettante grandfather 3 December 2022 08: 41
    +2
    According to the developers, the B-21 Raider is the world's first bomber, not even the fifth, but the sixth generation.
    Sixth, seventh ... The sixth generation machine, in theory, should be unmanned. Or, as part of a squadron, only one aircraft should be piloted by people, and the rest should work under his strict guidance, but controlled by AI.
  7. Corrosion inhibitor
    Corrosion inhibitor 3 December 2022 08: 43
    -9
    Yeah... The elephant in the china shop still goes unnoticed.
    Where did the Americans get hypersonic technology ?! Started from an empty place!? ...
    They have almost no domestic advanced technologies in aviation, they stole everything! It's the same story about Microsoft and Aple, and then Unix corp and on down the list. So where does such a luxury come from this time, if we have not recorded the loss? ..
    Personally, I don't think China guards its secrets worse than Russia. Quite the opposite.
    And, if no one stole anything in Russia, then did they sell it themselves? ... And such messages were, here, on the Military Review, they indirectly, but very clearly indicated, precisely, the deal.
    The story with the Luna tactical missile system was repeated. Only on a strategic scale. Now you can’t even understand who is worse - Gorbach, who ordered cutting advanced technologies and delayed their implementation for 20 years, or our current guarantor, under which they were sold over the hill, possibly with giblets.
    1. Andrey Moskvin
      Andrey Moskvin 3 December 2022 11: 37
      0
      But nothing that people from all over the world go to them? India, China, our traitors... My son's friend worked as a computer engineer in the USA, here's an obvious traitor.
      1. Corrosion inhibitor
        Corrosion inhibitor 3 December 2022 12: 26
        0
        Traitors are traitors and secrets are secrets.
        The secret is alive if the traitor is dead. D.u.r.a.k - the same traitor.
        Secret formulas have always been very simple and reliable.
        Who screwed up - that's the question? And when ...
    2. Flanker692
      Flanker692 4 December 2022 00: 28
      +3
      They stole B-21 flying wing technology from North Korea, I read in a telegram channel
  8. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 3 December 2022 08: 52
    -2
    You can't take away the ability to present goods from Americans. The presentation took place and after it all the friends of the United States firmly believed that the aircraft was really 6th generation and tomorrow it would be able to carry hypersonic missiles and break through the air defense of Russia and China. Will it "break through" due to its "invisibility"?
    1. Andrey Moskvin
      Andrey Moskvin 3 December 2022 12: 45
      +1
      So missiles should "break through", the plane itself, in my opinion, should not enter the affected area for a long time.
  9. fa2998
    fa2998 3 December 2022 09: 05
    +4
    Quote from: neworange88
    From signing the contract to today's debut, only seven years have passed.

    Good plane or bad, we'll see! But the deadlines !!! No need to "extort" projects for decades. How many PAK YES, Su-57s are being designed and built? When these aircraft in "commodity" quantities will be put into service. I think the Americans will quickly deliver a hundred bombers than we will build the planned 76 Su-57s. Talk about our new bomber has already died down. hi
    1. neworange88
      neworange88 3 December 2022 10: 24
      -2
      So the Americans did not grind out the same F-35 and everyone knows what they got at the exit. Everyone complains about the F-35, constant breakdowns.

      Talk about our new bomber has already died down.


      Nothing calmed down. They just don't shout at every corner.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 3 December 2022 10: 41
        +7
        "So the Americans did not grind out the same F-35" ///
        ----
        They began to produce 14 per month stably, like baking pies.
        Now Germany is buying this stealth - I realized that I was left without the 5th generation,
        when, all her neighbors around have F-35s.
        1. Cheerock
          Cheerock 3 December 2022 11: 22
          0
          Quote: voyaka uh
          "So the Americans did not grind out the same F-35" ///
          ----
          They began to produce 14 per month stably, like baking pies.
          Now Germany is buying this stealth - I realized that I was left without the 5th generation,
          when, all her neighbors around have F-35s.

          Germany, on the one hand, was left without anything at all, and she will soon wag with Poland, apparently. Here they caught on. And on the other hand, Germany was very cleverly and naturally put on American gas, and now also on an American plane. The Germans are bred very beautifully.
  10. K-50
    K-50 3 December 2022 09: 17
    -3
    The new generation stealth bomber B-21 Raider is presented in the USA, but the issue with the dimensions of the compartments for hypersonic missiles has not been resolved

    That is, in fact, nothing has been done.
    If you leave it like this, what if new products do not fit? It turns out in vain wandered.
    To customize the product to fit the existing bomb bays, maybe the product itself will not work then.
    In general, all the money in the smoke and pockets! fellow wassat
  11. fa2998
    fa2998 3 December 2022 09: 22
    +6
    Quote: ASAD
    We will not congratulate the enemies, we are waiting for our PAK-DA.

    Our "project" has existed for 5 years in 3D format, another 5 years in a wooden model. We take it to exhibitions and high meetings.
    RS The Su-57 program began in 2001, the first flight in 2010, the engines will be in 2025. Not yet in service. Here are the dates! hi
    1. neworange88
      neworange88 3 December 2022 10: 29
      -5
      Quote: fa2998
      Quote: ASAD
      We will not congratulate the enemies, we are waiting for our PAK-DA.

      Our "project" has existed for 5 years in 3D format, another 5 years in a wooden model. We take it to exhibitions and high meetings.
      RS The Su-57 program began in 2001, the first flight in 2010, the engines will be in 2025. Not yet in service. Here are the dates! hi



      The Su-57 was put into service in 2020. It was used in Syria and during the NMD in Ukraine.
      MOSCOW, December 25 - RIA Novosti. The Russian Aerospace Forces have received the first production fifth-generation Su-57 fighter jet, a source familiar with the situation told RIA Novosti.

      https://ria.ru/20201225/su-57-1590880287.html
      1. Nesvoy
        Nesvoy 3 December 2022 10: 38
        +1
        Why, then, did the Su-57 not completely suppress the air defense of the whole?
        1. Petr_Koldunov
          Petr_Koldunov 3 December 2022 10: 57
          -8
          Quote from Nesvoy
          Why, then, did the Su-57 not completely suppress the air defense of the whole?

          And even without the Su-57, it was completely suppressed in the very first hours of the operation. In any case, on the line of contact and in the immediate rear. And almost until April, bloomers did not know what to do.
          And then the owners started pushing. Fittings, it must be admitted, are unprecedented. Including air defense, which was literally reborn from nothing. Moreover, such systems, about which it was previously unambiguously stated that this is a taboo, that this will never be given to the ukroreich. Russia believed. Deceived. Again.
          Well, this set Russia back in achieving its goals for a number of months... but now we know what the reality is, and the format of this confrontation is also now clear - accordingly, the understanding of it. what you need to win is also there. Therefore, the victory will still be - it will just not be tomorrow.
          1. neworange88
            neworange88 3 December 2022 11: 02
            -1
            It frankly pisses me off that we are so easily deceived over and over again. Maybe it's enough to finally be carried out on someone's promises?
          2. Alex_mech
            Alex_mech 5 December 2022 10: 21
            0
            And then the owners started pushing.
            What and when "adjustment" began? The modern IRIS-T (one complex) appeared in the middle of autumn!

            Russia believed. Deceived. Again.
            Who and when promised Russia not to supply air defense to Ukraine?
      2. fa2998
        fa2998 3 December 2022 14: 09
        +2
        Quote from: neworange88
        The Su-57 was put into service in 2020. It was used in Syria and during the NMD in Ukraine.

        Well, in which combat regiments did this update arrive? To the Lipetsk Center for Retraining and Development. Several pieces. With old engines. Your "source" is very impressionable - if the model is adopted in service, then these are dozens of pieces in a real army, and not in trial operation. hi
  12. Petr_Koldunov
    Petr_Koldunov 3 December 2022 10: 49
    -3
    You can’t buy a booth until you buy a dog and you don’t know its dimensions! Otherwise, there may be many problems associated with processing and reformatting.
    Here there will be serial hypersonic missiles in service - then provide compartments for them. In the meantime, why do you need them? Carry potatoes from the dacha?
    1. ROSS_51
      ROSS_51 3 December 2022 19: 08
      +1
      Quote: Peter_Koldunov
      You can’t buy a booth until you buy a dog and you don’t know its dimensions! Otherwise, there may be many problems associated with processing and reformatting.
      Here there will be serial hypersonic missiles in service - then provide compartments for them. In the meantime, why do you need them? Carry potatoes from the dacha?

      Is it just me or is it different in aviation? First, a carrier is created and ammunition is developed for it (a whole range), and not an aircraft is built around a rocket?
      1. Negro
        Negro 3 December 2022 23: 59
        -1
        Quote: ROSS_51
        instead of building an airplane around a rocket?

        It is possible either way. But in general, if the aircraft is compatible with the existing range of weapons, this is always a plus.
        1. ROSS_51
          ROSS_51 4 December 2022 04: 05
          +1
          Quote: Negro
          Quote: ROSS_51
          instead of building an airplane around a rocket?

          It is possible either way. But in general, if the aircraft is compatible with the existing range of weapons, this is always a plus.

          Are you related to the aircraft industry? I mean, are these your fantasies from the couch or give an example from recent history, when the TK was to build an aircraft for ammunition? Is it okay to develop and build a rocket many times faster than an airplane?
          In our realities, the rocket will still have time to become obsolete until the plane is launched under it in a series.
          1. Negro
            Negro 4 December 2022 05: 19
            -1
            Some strange presentations.

            An example of building an aircraft around a weapon is well known - A-10. Softer options come across all the time: for example, the F-35 must have been able to carry American ABs.
            1. ROSS_51
              ROSS_51 4 December 2022 05: 39
              +1
              Quote: Negro
              Some strange presentations.

              An example of building an aircraft around a weapon is well known - A-10. Softer options come across all the time: for example, the F-35 must have been able to carry American ABs.

              Yes, this is not presenting, it just became interesting, maybe I don’t know something. Now at least it’s clear that you are a master of pulling an owl on a globe.))
              And yes .. when the Americans didn’t even build a plane for the atomic bomb, guess why?))
              1. Negro
                Negro 4 December 2022 05: 56
                0
                Because the B-29 project and even the B-36 appeared before AB, you see.
            2. Alex92
              Alex92 4 December 2022 06: 04
              +1
              Better yet, the Aerocobra is definitely around weapons)
              1. Negro
                Negro 4 December 2022 06: 11
                -1
                A-10 is a more pronounced case. In the case of the Cobra, the theme of a rear-engined aircraft existed separately.
                1. ROSS_51
                  ROSS_51 4 December 2022 23: 16
                  +1
                  Quote: Negro
                  A-10 is a more pronounced case. In the case of the Cobra, the theme of a rear-engined aircraft existed separately.

                  I’m saying, stop raping the owl.)) I’m not at all worried about your ignorance, but for your general development, don’t be too lazy to find out what the technical specifications were from the military and how the A-10 was created. Everything is exactly the opposite with respect to your competent opinion.
                2. Alex92
                  Alex92 7 December 2022 19: 47
                  0
                  Be that as it may, the A-10 rather failed than became a significant contribution to the development of aviation, otherwise the car is legendary
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 4 December 2022 17: 18
        0
        Quote: ROSS_51
        Is it just me or is it different in aviation? First, a carrier is created and ammunition is developed for it (a whole range), and not an aircraft is built around a rocket?

        In aviation!? belay
        - Everything is simple in aviation fellow :
        ENGINE is created first wassat , and an airplane with weapons and other bells and whistles is being built around it! yes
        1. ROSS_51
          ROSS_51 4 December 2022 23: 21
          +1
          Quote: BoA KAA
          Quote: ROSS_51
          Is it just me or is it different in aviation? First, a carrier is created and ammunition is developed for it (a whole range), and not an aircraft is built around a rocket?

          In aviation!? belay
          - Everything is simple in aviation fellow :
          ENGINE is created first wassat , and an airplane with weapons and other bells and whistles is being built around it! yes

          I would say that this rather applies to our history of aircraft manufacturing to this day. Engines have always been a problem.
          The West, in the context of globalization and the closest integration in the block, does not particularly experience problems with the engine line.
  13. Nross
    Nross 3 December 2022 11: 24
    -1
    Kmk, it will soon become clear that without Russian titanium, Lockheeds increase the cost of jerboas by 2 times, and without Chinese iridium - by another 2 times - the total will come out under 2 yards cut for a bomber half as much as B2 (30 thousand loads versus 60 thousand, in pounds) .
    I doubt very much that in the service staff it will be cheaper than the same B2.
    As a result, by the year 35, they will limit themselves to demonstration flights from a couple of squadrons, watching with envy the successes of the Chinese military-industrial complex. The latter does not at all reduce the threat in terms of rel. to Russia from, evidence (so far) of a peaceful neighbor.
    1. ROSS_51
      ROSS_51 3 December 2022 19: 22
      +2
      Yes, stop dragging this nonsense from the central channels about Russian titanium here.
      Airbus is also refusing our titanium, so what? The stability of supplies just became unreliable against the backdrop of sanctions. They will order in some thread of another Malaysia, that's business.
    2. Flanker692
      Flanker692 4 December 2022 00: 39
      +1
      Shock content: Russian production of titanium until the beginning of 2022 was tied up
      (> 90%) on the supply of titanium ore from abroad, as Russian titanium ores give poor profitability in processing, they are simply poor.
      In 2019, 446 thousand tons of TiO2 (titanium dioxide, titanium dioxide) were mined in Russia, but almost all of it was lost - only 3.1 thousand tons of TiO2 were recovered. Therefore, 75 thousand tons of titanium pigment and 45.9 thousand tons of sponge titanium were produced from foreign raw materials, according to the state report of the Ministry of Natural Resources of the Russian Federation.

      Russian industrialists, including VSMPO-Avisma, bought high-quality raw materials in .... Ukraine.
      Since 2015, Russian imports of titanium (mainly ilmenite) concentrates have been at least 220 thousand tons per year. In 2019, it increased by 13% compared to the previous year and amounted to 304.5 thousand tons. Ukraine remained the main supplier (85% of supplies), supplying ilmenite concentrate from the Malyshevskoye (61-63% TiO2), Volchanskoye (64-66 % TiO2), Irshanskaya group (55-57% TiO2), as well as rutile concentrate (94-95% TiO2) from the Malyshevskoye deposit.

      After February 2022, they buy mainly in Vietnam.
      PS The top four manufacturers of titanium sponge: China by a wide margin, Japan, Australia, Russia
      PSS The main producers of titanium concentrate are: Australia, the United States of America, Norway and Ukraine. The share of Russia in the world production of titanium concentrates is 0,6%, despite the fact that it is in second place in terms of titanium dioxide resources after China
      This is due to the fact that the Russian titanium mineral resource base is dominated by deposits that are generally inferior to foreign ones in terms of production characteristics. The ores of igneous deposits are comparable in quality to foreign analogues, but these deposits are often located in underdeveloped regions. The ores of the giant Yaregsky oil-titanium deposit require a complex and expensive enrichment technology, and alluvial deposits, although comparable in terms of resources and titanium content in ores with foreign counterparts, differ from them for the worse in terms of mining and technical parameters and enrichment.

      PSSS Maybe they bought Russian titanium because it is. was. simply. cheaper?
  14. Fangaro
    Fangaro 3 December 2022 11: 42
    -3
    Dimensions not yet known?
    Or is the issue with the number of printed dollars not resolved?
  15. bk0010
    bk0010 3 December 2022 11: 48
    -2
    Where are the specifications? What's a presentation without details?
    1. engineer74
      engineer74 3 December 2022 12: 51
      -1
      And not the fact that this is not a mock-up at all, remember the Su-75 - first a presentation, then money and finishing wink
      And according to the "details", this is more of a replacement for the "strategist" F / B-111 than the B-52H ...
      Somehow, it seems to me hi
  16. shurshun
    shurshun 3 December 2022 12: 20
    +3
    dedicated to all zealous commentators - "Dogs bark, but the caravan goes on!"
  17. Bingo
    Bingo 3 December 2022 12: 44
    0
    And they are not tired of drawing cartoons? Maybe they will draw how a hypersonic rocket flies? And then this, it seems, hasn’t happened yet, but there have already been cartoons about all the winner-bomber
  18. Egeny
    Egeny 3 December 2022 17: 27
    -2
    but the issue with the dimensions of the compartments for hypersonic missiles has not been resolved

    But what, does the Yankees have such missiles?)
    1. Negro
      Negro 4 December 2022 00: 00
      -1
      Quote from Egeni
      do the Yankees have such missiles

      Only they have.
      1. Egeny
        Egeny 4 December 2022 09: 23
        0
        Quote: Negro
        Only they have.

        Yes, "yellow-black" nigga, you've been brainwashed well, there's nothing left.)
  19. certero
    certero 3 December 2022 21: 52
    0
    Absolutely anyone understands that the future of aviation is drones. Manned aircraft are too expensive to be mass-produced, and without this use against any saturated air defense system is impossible.
    And whoever first begins to seriously develop a fully autonomous unmanned vehicle will win the future arms race.
    1. Negro
      Negro 4 December 2022 00: 01
      0
      Quote: certero
      who will be the first to really seriously develop a fully autonomous unmanned vehicle

      Americans have been sawing such projects for about 40 years.
  20. cat hippopotamus
    cat hippopotamus 3 December 2022 23: 52
    -2
    Their expensive F-35 is a bucket of bolts and a super-computer that constantly fails. And in terms of flight characteristics, it does not meet the requirements of the third generation. What this flat trough B-21 is is not clear. But it probably costs even more than the F-35. The US does not make the best weapons, but the most expensive.
    1. Flanker692
      Flanker692 4 December 2022 01: 08
      +1
      I correctly understood that ours outplayed everyone again, and that is why Russia is building a tailless Su-75 (with a layout conceptually repeating the Boeing X-32, which lost in the X-35 competition - the future F-35. Oops) and PAKDA according to the "flying wing" (repeating B-2, B-21)? Did I understand everything correctly?
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 4 December 2022 17: 28
        0
        Quote: Flanker692
        tailless Su-75 is being built in Russia

        With what fright did you wander into the attic!?
        Quote: Flanker692
        and PAKDA according to the "flying wing" scheme
        well, yes! And the whales also patched up their H-20 with a flying wing. The main thing here is stealth, intercontinental range and carrying capacity. The platform, however...
  21. Alex92
    Alex92 4 December 2022 06: 11
    -1
    Nothing fundamentally new. In the Union, bomber projects were more interesting and dangerous in terms of passing enemy air defense
    1. Alex_mech
      Alex_mech 5 December 2022 10: 28
      -1
      Well, there were projects in the USA too ... What does it change? It's not like we're talking about projects.
      1. Alex92
        Alex92 7 December 2022 19: 44
        0
        The fact that this is cutting the dough, and not a breakthrough in the field of bomber aviation
        1. Alex_mech
          Alex_mech 8 December 2022 10: 11
          0
          I still don't understand the idea of ​​projects. Both in the USA and in the USSR there were projects, but for some reason they did not appear in metal. Simply because already at that stage it was clear that they had no prospects, and it makes no sense to spend resources on them. You need to compare projects with projects and real production aircraft with real production aircraft. But if you are an adherent of "cutting / printing press" oh, of course, sawing and machine tools are everywhere for you.
          1. Alex92
            Alex92 9 December 2022 08: 56
            0
            Take an interest in how many projects of Myasishchev, and even Sukhoi (the same weave) Tupolev ruined, using connections in the Central Committee and pulling the blanket over himself. There were still some prospects, M-56 for example. So most often, and sometimes in the former union, they were guided by the interests of individuals, and not by the level of product capabilities
  22. Chupacabra
    Chupacabra 4 December 2022 12: 41
    -1
    Dear gentlemen, in the USA there are not only idiots (there are enough of them everywhere), but also smart, cunning, evil and experienced military men, engineers, politicians. They will not be able to throw hats, you can not even hope. Instead of smiling, look around.
    1. The United States was able to form a hostile (and not just one) state near the borders of the Russian Federation.
    2. The United States was able to draw Russia into a bloody war with an ethnically and historically close people, doing it in such a way that the Russian authorities had no choice at any stage of the process.
    3. For 8 years, the United States has created an effective army from protoukrov, which has been fighting for itself for 10 months and which has yet to be defeated.
    4. The United States quietly got a global high-speed data network (Starlink) and commercial satellites, which, it turns out, work not only for Google Maps.
    5. The USA has a full range of the most advanced developments (the most complete and advanced in the world).

    There is no need to tell that the United States lost all the wars - they left, creating chaos (controlled by them) and destroying statehood, creating problems for their rival neighbors.
    The only way to defeat them is to make continuing the conflict too costly and impractical for the United States. And, even in this case, the victory will be with a bitter aftertaste, as Russia will get it at a high price.

    Russia will win, we have no other way.
  23. T800-101
    T800-101 4 December 2022 12: 43
    0
    Hooray patriots, go!!! We are waiting for your stories about how expensive, inefficient and in general it is. And that we, and here we are, by 2040, we will do this, this.
  24. Introvert
    Introvert 4 December 2022 14: 05
    0
    In the future, it is planned to arm it with hypersonic missiles. True, now the question arose of how the dimensions of the internal compartments fit under them. According to some reports, for those hypersonic missiles that are being tested on a carrier such as the B-52, the internal compartments of the B-21 Raider are not suitable.

    Looks like the story is about to take another turn. As with the B-1A, for which there were no missiles that met the requirements of the military, and at the same time fit into the internal compartments, and they could not be created, and those that were and satisfied could only carry the B-52. Yes, they appeared in the 90s, but conditionally strategic with a range of up to 1000 km, although there are a lot of them, but ... until that time, the B-1A turned into the B-1B, the main armament of which was, like in WWII, free-falling bombs.
  25. Alex_mech
    Alex_mech 5 December 2022 10: 10
    0
    Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
    Even the first versions of 31 with the antediluvian Barrier saw your STEALTH and

    Can you elaborate on exactly what kind of "stealth" saw the first versions of the MiG-31 with a barrier?