Military Review

Submarine project "Borey": another postponement

53
In the first months of 2012, messages began to appear on the completion of the "long-term construction" of the Russian naval fleet. It was reported that in the fall the Navy will include the nuclear submarine Yuri Dolgoruky (project 955 Borey), shortly afterwards the second ship of the same project Alexander Nevsky will be handed over to the sailors, and then the multipurpose nuclear submarine Severodvinsk will leave for the Pacific Fleet. Time passed, autumn came, but the submarines were not accepted into the fleet. Moreover, in the last days of the month of October, it wasn’t quite pleasant news. For several reasons, the Ministry of Defense intends to move the deadlines for accepting the head boat of the 955 project by several months. The same applies to the “Alexander Nevsky” and the first ship of the 855 project - the nuclear submarine “Severodvinsk”. The postponement of the adoption of the boats in operation cause a lot of questions.



Today, November 2 2012, marks the 16 anniversary of the bookmark of Yuri Dolgoruky. Frankly, this figure is not encouraging: before the ships were built much faster and there were no such "records". Nevertheless, the head "Borey" has been on probation for almost three and a half years. On the one hand, the completion of construction looks quite optimistic, but on the other hand, the testing process usually takes much less time. It is quite obvious that a long period, which has passed since the beginning of construction, has some grounds, and this is most likely a complex of several reasons at once. Let's try to understand them.

Until recently, the main reason for the constant delay in the adoption of the submarine "Yuri Dolgoruky" called problems with armament. Originally, Borei was planned to be equipped with Bark ballistic missiles. However, the development of this weapons came in the nineties, which clearly did not contribute to its successful end. The financial capabilities of the country did not allow not only to bring "Bark", but even to conduct full-fledged tests. Due to project failures, the development of a lighter Bulava P-30 rocket was launched. A number of innovations in the design of the new rocket also did not accelerate the development and testing, but by the end of 2011, the creation and testing was completed. At the beginning of 2012, it was officially announced that the Bulava would go into service with the Russian Navy for several months. Thus, the problem of weapons for "Boreev" in general and "Yuri Dolgoruky" in particular has been resolved.

The second argument in disputes about the timing of construction and delivery concerns the financial situation. As already mentioned, the first "Borey" was laid in 1996 year. At that time, the country's economy was in a terrible state, but the Ministry of Defense was looking for at least some amount, even if insufficient, to build a new ship. The increase in construction financing to acceptable volumes began at the beginning of the two thousandth, and payment in the required quantities began only in 2004-2005. Thus, most of the work on the construction of "Yuri Dolgoruky" was carried out not in sixteen years, but in just five or six. Moreover, the increase in funding did not affect the existence of problems: just economic hiccups were replaced by the creation of weapons. In the context of the dependence of the construction period on the amount of funding should be considered history submarine "Alexander Nevsky." A little more than seven years passed between the laying and the beginning of the tests of this submarine. For "Yuri Dolgoruky" this period is a little less than 13 years. Six years of difference clearly demonstrate the need for timely and full funding of any defense construction.

Another reason for the delay relates to the construction of infrastructure for new submarines. "Yuri Dolgoruky" and "Alexander Nevsky" should go to serve at the base in Vilyuchinsk. In this regard, the command of the Russian fleet decided to upgrade the coastal facilities and infrastructure base. Judging by the fact that once again it was necessary to shift the deadlines for accepting the Yuriy Dolgoruky, the work on updating the base is still going on and at the moment Vilyuchinsk simply cannot accept the new submarine. At the same time, delays in work on Kamchatka lead to an increase in costs - while the boat is standing near the wall of Severodvinsk "Sevmash", the military has to pay the company for its service about two million rubles a month. Of course, it is tens of thousands of times less than the cost of the submarine itself, but this money is not superfluous. It is noteworthy that the multi-purpose boat “Severodvinsk”, the delivery of which is also postponed to the next year, like the “first two Boreas”, will serve as part of the Pacific Fleet. Thus, due to problems with the provision of the necessary infrastructure, three new submarines cannot yet go to the duty station.

The reasons for the delays listed above are somehow related to official information. At the same time there are other versions that have not received official confirmation. You can immediately remove from consideration the numerous statements of hysterical nature, telling about the total backwardness of domestic shipbuilding, the excessive cost of living and the general uselessness of new submarines. These statements are based on emotions and, in part, on political moments, and not on facts and logic, so attention is not worth it. More interesting and logical are the versions about the insufficient communication of the Boreev main weapon - the P-30 Bulava rocket. In favor of these conjectures, the fact is given that ten months have already passed since the last successful launch, during tests, it was repeatedly mentioned that the missile was accepted for service, but the latter has not happened yet. As counterargument, you can bring delays in commissioning the Severodvinsk submarine, which, as in the case of Boreyev, is more dependent on the availability of coastal infrastructure. It is quite obvious that the submarines of the 885 project do not need ballistic missiles, but still the head submarine cannot yet be accepted into the fleet. Probably, the military want to take the Bulava into service simultaneously with the commissioning of the Yuri Dolgoruky. In this case, the rocket also becomes a “victim” of slow construction work.

It is possible that the constant change in the timing is also due to the need to continue fine-tuning the onboard electronics of submarines, including the new system of remote automatic control of the general ship systems of the SDAU USK Molybden, developed by the NPO Aurora. Previously, various problems of this complex were repeatedly reported, but it was unlikely that they would have to be regularly changed in terms of only a few months to eliminate them. Of course, the creation and testing of a new digital control system is far from simple and all the time costs will pay off. But to date, the Molybdenum development company has had enough time for all inspections, modifications, etc.

As we see, several factors affect the timing of delivery of the new fleet to the fleet, and each of them may be the main cause of troubles over time. At the same time, it must be admitted that there is a clear tendency to accelerate production. It is most pronounced when considering the "Yuri Dolgoruky" and "Alexander Nevsky." The second submarine was built almost twice as fast as the head ship of the project. From some sources, it follows that in the future the submarine missile carriers of the 955 project will be built in six years, but a slight decrease in this period is possible, due to the improvement of technological processes. It is also impossible not to admit the obvious fact: the transfer of delivery of new boats to the fleet for the next year, despite ambiguous interpretations of the press in the style “in a year”, leaves little doubt about the possibility of putting the ships into operation soon and it is hardly worth waiting for new messages about the next transfer.


On the materials of the sites:
http://rus.ruvr.ru/
http://vz.ru/
http://lenta.ru/
http://armstass.su/
http://ria.ru/
http://deepstorm.ru/
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  1. understudy
    understudy 2 November 2012 08: 19
    +6
    What should be expected ... This is not real estate in the center of Moscow.
  2. UPStoyan
    UPStoyan 2 November 2012 08: 24
    0
    It would be more likely to have been commissioned. How much can be put off.
    1. aktanir
      aktanir 2 November 2012 13: 02
      0
      It is not clear what they are pulling, Stalin is not enough for them. We hear about this "Severodvinsk" almost every week, but they still cannot accept it. Meanwhile, these boats in the current period of global tension and instability are very much needed.
      1. borisst64
        borisst64 2 November 2012 13: 21
        +2
        "development of a new digital control system"

        I think here is the answer. We all have computers and we have all met with "frozen", "rebooted", blue screen, etc. And if this is the control of a nuclear missile carrier? And the programmer will never say right away whether his program will be friends with specific equipment and other And if you are not friends, then adjusting oh how problematic.
        1. Nik_One
          Nik_One 3 November 2012 01: 48
          0
          It all depends on how the program is written.
        2. loft79
          loft79 3 November 2012 02: 08
          0
          Programs are usually written for specific equipment.

          Simply:

          "If debugging is fixing errors in the code, then writing is creating errors" :)
      2. Santa Fe
        Santa Fe 2 November 2012 16: 02
        -1
        Quote: aktanir
        What is being pulled is incomprehensible; Stalin is not enough for them.

        Under Stalin, they could not build a single battleship.
        They started building twice: in 30's and 50's - and every time he got a hellish unfinished building, even generous benefits in the form of trips to sunny Magadan did not help
        1. Kars
          Kars 2 November 2012 16: 10
          +3
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          Under Stalin could not build a single battleship

          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          hellish unfinished

          Just hellish? And how much interesting time has passed from the bookmark to the war in the first case? And until the death of Stalin in the second? (By the way, are you talking about Sialingrad?)
          1. Santa Fe
            Santa Fe 2 November 2012 18: 24
            -1
            Quote: Kars
            and how much interesting time has passed from the bookmark to the war in the first case?

            LK The Soviet Union was laid down in the summer of 1938
            After THREE YEARS, the ship's readiness was ... 19%.
            Well, where does the war come from? The other two did not even start building - they did not master.
            1. Kars
              Kars 2 November 2012 18: 38
              +2
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              LK The Soviet Union was laid down in the summer of 1938
              After THREE YEARS, the ship’s readiness was ... 19%


              Yamato ”[2], the first of the battleships of its series, was laid down on 4 on November 1937 of the year at the Navy shipyard in Kura. It was launched on 8 on August 1939 of the year [3], and officially went into operation on December 16 of 1941; however, only 27 of May 1942 of the year was declared combat ready

              Vanguard "(Eng. Vanguard -" avant-garde "), tail number 23 - British battleship of the period of the Second World War. It was designed in the years 1939-1941, in connection with the expected late deadline for the commissioning of battleships of the Lyon type, and was intended for urgent construction using 381-mm gun installations stored in warehouses from the 1920s. Despite the hasty construction, the battleship laid in 1941 was not put into operation before the end of the war, and after the war its completion slowed down even more and it was put into service only in 1946

              And you can’t deduce the production rhythm from 19% of the CASE and prove nothing. For the USSR it was the first battleship of its own construction, the tsar’s were also built for a long time. And the war, the war with everything.

              Congratulations you are so fucked up from scratch that I am surprised.
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              The other two did not even start building - they did not master


              The lead ship of the line "Soviet Union", serial number S-299, was laid down in Leningrad at the Baltic Shipyard. This is evidenced by the official report: “Commander of the 3rd rank, Commander Gorshkov, to the head of the RKKF Shipbuilding Directorate. I’m hereby informing you that on July 15, 1938 at the plant named after S. Ordzhonikidze the l / c “Soviet Union” was founded. Commissioner of the Criminal Code is a military engineer of the 1st rank Kudzi. " In 1938-1939 at two other enterprises three more battleships were laid: “Soviet Ukraine” (S-352) in Nikolaev, “Soviet Russia” (S-101) and “Soviet Belarus” (S-102) in Molotovsk. In October 1940, an order was given to suspend the construction of the Sovetskaya Belorussia ship, which was ready by 1%, and to concentrate its main efforts on the Sovetskiy Soyuz ship [3]. Due to the outbreak of war, the construction of the remaining ships was discontinued (the readiness of the “Soviet Union” was 19,44%, “Soviet Ukraine” - only 7%), and at the end of the war unfinished ships were dismantled.
              1. Santa Fe
                Santa Fe 3 November 2012 21: 07
                -1
                Quote: Kars
                Yamato ”[2], the first of the battleships of its series, was laid down on 4 on November 1937 of the year at the Navy shipyard in Kura. It was launched on 8 on August 1939 of the year [3], and officially went into operation on December 16 of 1941; however, only 27 of May 1942 of the year was declared combat ready

                No, well, I'm sorry, Yamato and Soviet Union are completely different things. Yamato was not built alone - there are two more of his sister ships and 2 heavy aircraft carriers + dozens of cruisers and destroyers. And this is in conditions of a shortage of basic resources!
                Quote: Kars
                Despite the hasty construction, the battleship laid down in 1941 was not put into operation before the end of the war, and after the war its completion slowed down even more and it was put into service only in 1946

                In the conditions of the blockade of the island to build a battleship is something

                Quote: Kars
                In October, 1940 was ordered to suspend the construction of the Soviet Belorussia ship, finished on 1%

                Stumble
                Quote: Kars
                about "Soviet Ukraine" - total 7%

                It means they didn’t start building

                WE BUILT, BUILT, AND FINALLY BUILT))))))
                1. Kars
                  Kars 3 November 2012 21: 18
                  +2
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  No, well I'm sorry, "Yamato" and "Soviet Union"

                  Well, if you learn the history of the Navy. As the shipbuilding of Japan developed in the 20th century, by the way, the Navy was in the first place. I don’t laugh with the Japanese tanks that they were able to build and don’t reproach this hirohito as a worthless industrialist))) )))
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  In the conditions of the blockade of the island to build a battleship is something

                  What kind of blockade? Will you write how many cargoes England took at that time?
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  Stumble

                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  It means they didn’t start building


                  did not start it ---- 0%))))))))))))))
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  WE BUILT, BUILT, AND FINALLY BUILT))))))

                  it's like about your reputation)))))))))))
                  1. Santa Fe
                    Santa Fe 4 November 2012 15: 17
                    0
                    Quote: Kars
                    I don’t laugh with the Japanese tanks that they were able to build, and I don’t reproach this Hirohito as a worthless industrialist

                    With Japan’s small and resource-poor resources, a fleet that has no equal in the world is enough.
                    Quote: Kars
                    What kind of blockade? Will you write how many cargoes England took at that time?

                    And how much was required for the normal functioning of the metropolis?
                    Quote: Kars
                    did not start it ---- 0%))))))))))))))

                    7% and 1% are chickens to laugh.
                    And this is after a couple of years of construction! When all the forces of the state were thrown into preparation for the Great War.
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 4 November 2012 15: 26
                      +1
                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      With Japan's small and poor resources, enough

                      Well, of course, small, poor --- captured manchuria, China, etc. In 1919, Nagato built that the Anglo-Saxons ofigel ----- easier to say, do not pull the facts, and if the topic is interesting, study in more detail.
                      So there are no special meanings in tightening the first battleships of the USSR, and everything is logical --- and don’t need to remember this post, you then look ridiculous.
                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      how much was required for the normal functioning of the metropolis?

                      The Germans were not able to sink so much.
                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      7% and 1% are chickens to laugh

                      but not 0% and depending on which chickens.
                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      When all the forces of the state were thrown to prepare for the Great War

                      Well, everything is straightforward, and battleships are not the primary means of defense for the USSR, in principle it was even a mistake (but the USSR calculated to delay the war to the maximum), this will show the military way of the USSR fleets in WWII.

                      But still, learn the story))))))))))
                      1. Santa Fe
                        Santa Fe 4 November 2012 19: 54
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, of course, small, poor --- seized manchuria, China, and so on.

                        Captured in which year? And Nagato was built in 1919. Maybe it’s worth citing Japan as an example and not the great chipped manager
                        Quote: Kars
                        So in tightening the first battleships of the USSR there are no special values

                        Right. Everything as usual.
                        Quote: Kars
                        The Germans were not able to sink so much.

                        But the damage to the British economy was tremendous. And nevertheless, they’ve built a battleship!
                        Quote: Kars
                        but not 0% and depending on which chickens.

                        Given the volume and scope of the task, 1%, 0%. 7% - what's the difference? Battleships are not built.
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 4 November 2012 21: 08
                        +1
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Captured in which year?

                        Forced to repeat ---- TEACH HISTORY, AND DON'T BE SHAMED)))))
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Correctly. Everything as usual

                        Where the pancake is 25 Japanese tanks are asked)))))
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        But the damage to the British economy was tremendous. And nevertheless - they built a battleship

                        With the USSR, this damage is not comparable))))))))
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        1%. 0% - what's the difference

                        Are you driving? The difference is 1% and 7%))))))
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Battleships not built

                        ))))))))))) What are you))))))
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        And Nagato was built in 1919

                        And naglosaksi ofigeli))))))))) 410 mm))))))))
                      3. Santa Fe
                        Santa Fe 5 November 2012 00: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        Where the pancake 25 000 of Japanese tanks is asked

                        Where the world's most powerful fleet
                        Quote: Kars
                        With the USSR, this damage is not comparable))))))))

                        Therefore, we did not build anything. Neither before nor after the war. Neither under Berry nor under Beria
                        Quote: Kars
                        Are you driving? The difference is 1% and 7%))))))

                        Keep clowning like that))))
                        Quote: Kars
                        And naglosaksi ofigeli))))))))) 410 mm))))))))

                        So I’m saying that it’s worth citing Japan as an example, not darned
                      4. Kars
                        Kars 5 November 2012 01: 09
                        +1
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Where the world's most powerful fleet

                        English chtoli?
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Therefore, we did not build anything. Neither before nor after the war. Neither under Berry nor under Beria

                        And they might not have tried, and had not Stalin died in 1953, Stalingrad would have been completed.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Keep clowning like that))))

                        Yes, easy, 1 and 7% still do not correspond to your statement that they did not start.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        So I’m saying that Japan is an example.

                        Look at how many LCs after Nagato and Mutsu were built by the Japanese. And do not forget that Japan, in principle, ISLAND)))))

                        As I understand it, you read about the results of the Russo-Japanese War, you remembered Qingdao and the Sino-Japanese War in '94))))))))))))))
                      5. Santa Fe
                        Santa Fe 6 November 2012 17: 15
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        English chtoli?

                        Japanese Imperial

                        Quote: Kars
                        It's easy, 1 and 7% still do not match your statement that they did not start

                        Given the scale of the upcoming work, all statements about 1 and 7% are identical to zero.
                        It’s like going to Australia, but getting stuck in Sheremetyevo
                        Quote: Kars
                        Look how many LCs after Nagato and Mutsu the Japanese built

                        2 is the most powerful in the world. Plus the best carrier fleet in the world.
                        Quote: Kars
                        And do not forget that Japan is basically an ISLAND

                        And besides, it’s also small and constantly shaking
                        Quote: Kars
                        Yes, and do not die Stalin in 1953 Stalingrad would have completed.

                        But not a fact. And all the same, they were obsolete - against Iow, Dakot and Yangard will not roll, against AUG - it is generally useless
                        GK tower
                        Tell me, what advantage do guns have over aviation - even if it’s ordinary, ground?
                      6. Kars
                        Kars 6 November 2012 17: 25
                        +1
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Japanese Imperial

                        Who told you such nonsense?
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Given the scale of the work ahead, all statements about 1 and 7% are identical to zero

                        1 and 7, in principle, cannot be identical to zero.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        2 most powerful in the world. Plus the world's best carrier fleet

                        And the displacement? It is strange that he walked to the Midway.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        And besides, it’s also small and constantly shaking

                        Seized Korea, the German colonies, and a decent piece of China, pumped into the initial period by England.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        And all the same, they were obsolete - they won’t roll against Iow, Dakot and Yangard

                        So what? But it would be.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        against AUG - generally useless

                        against them a bunch of submarines.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        answer, what advantage do guns have over aviation - even if it’s ordinary, ground?

                        And who is so smart to compare this? They complement each other. And there are quite a few advantages. I brought them in previous series. Cheaper, more reliable, inevitable, all-weather, --- aviation had the advantage (to guided missiles) only. Cheers can be put on the battleship.
                      7. saturn.mmm
                        saturn.mmm 6 November 2012 21: 58
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        English chtoli?

                        Do you have such a photo?
                      8. Kars
                        Kars 6 November 2012 22: 10
                        +2
                        Now it is.
                        It is interesting that with the drawn phlog will be after the shot.
                      9. saturn.mmm
                        saturn.mmm 6 November 2012 23: 01
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        It is interesting that with the drawn phlog will be after the shot.

                        Now let's take a look.
                      10. Kars
                        Kars 6 November 2012 23: 08
                        +2
                        They didn’t want to see the flag spoil, but something tells me that the paint should not rub weakly.

                        Damn today because of a joyful event - for the Russian Defense Ministry, and there’s no one to talk to, everyone is at heart, soon over 1000 comments will be exceeded))))))))
                      11. saturn.mmm
                        saturn.mmm 6 November 2012 23: 47
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        Damn today because of a happy event

                        Flyers on "Russian Air Force will protect planes and helicopters" Vitebsk "and Israelis on" Death squads are operating in Syria under the auspices of the United States "

                        Show another photo to your opponent Oleg smile
                        The USS Santa Fe is next to the damaged Franklin aircraft carrier. The aircraft carrier was attacked by a Japanese bomber during the battle of Okinawa off the coast of Honshu Island, Japan, on March 19, 1945. More than 800 people were killed, and the surviving crew members tried to put out the fire and repair the ship to prevent it from sinking. (AP Photo)
                      12. Kars
                        Kars 7 November 2012 00: 00
                        +2
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        Flyers on "Air Force R

                        Not my subject.

                        And Santa Fe is certainly interesting, but they are not suitable for Oleg, the aviation worked here — he no longer likes the torpedo from the submarine. We give him Uosp-peak.
                        (Prince of Wales will come back)
                      13. saturn.mmm
                        saturn.mmm 7 November 2012 00: 33
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        he doesn't like the torpedo anymore

                        Well torpedo so torpedo
                        The bodies of American soldiers lie on the beach of one of the islands of the Taraw Atoll after a fierce battle during the US invasion of the Gilbert Islands in late November 1943. As a result of the three-day battle for Tarawa, about a thousand marines were killed. Another 687 US Navy sailors died on the USS Liscome Bay aircraft carrier, which was sunk by a Japanese torpedo.
                      14. Kars
                        Kars 7 November 2012 01: 21
                        +1
                        I don’t like the mention of casualties, especially in the contest of the Pacific conquests by the Yankees of the islands. One can immediately see the total superiority in firepower, and the crossing of the Dnieper and Oder is climbing into our heads.

                        But Korejge can be thrown in, the first sunken WWII warship according to the Encyclopedia of Ships. He was not lucky with a cruiser, nor an aircraft carrier.
  3. Lavrik
    Lavrik 2 November 2012 08: 32
    +5
    Three and a half years of testing (it is possible to break the Gorshkov's record) speaks of the low quality of the work performed. With all the following conclusions.
    1. 755962
      755962 2 November 2012 09: 45
      +7
      Everything is as it is written .. Harness for a long time ..... Will we go fast? Sorry for the pessimism.
  4. Sibiryak
    Sibiryak 2 November 2012 08: 36
    0
    Better to solve certain issues now than scribble deferambs to mothers and loved ones later! Although the timing makes you think about the competence and interest of other people!
  5. sergo0000
    sergo0000 2 November 2012 08: 38
    +3
    Why not immediately say sabotage!
    90s left and people stayed.
    And where are the patriots and people on the "leap" now?
    1. Civil
      Civil 2 November 2012 10: 39
      +3
      Quote: sergo0000

      Why not immediately say sabotage!
      90s left and people stayed.
      And where are the patriots and people on the "leap" now?


      only effective managers ... no others
  6. bubla5
    bubla5 2 November 2012 10: 01
    +3
    This is not sabotage and sloppiness, but a deliberate delay, he used to have a different name - a betrayal of his homeland.
  7. IRBIS
    IRBIS 2 November 2012 10: 15
    +9
    In troubled times, it was not possible to save work personnel. The quality of military-industrial complex products fell catastrophically, and no one bears responsibility for this. There are practically no enthusiasts left in their field, and it is good to pay specialists - this is in Russia, and, unfortunately, still their fields of fantasy. What was there yesterday, the Commander-in-Chief "bzdnul" about five ships in the Navy every year? Does he generally know the state of affairs, or just drink ... did he climb into a chair?
    1. Armata
      Armata 2 November 2012 13: 18
      +2
      Alexander is welcome. I disagree about the quality. We all do not want to risk the lives of submariners. But the bone of our type of "commander-in-chief". Yes, there is only one opinion here. STEAL THICK-FACE THINGS LESS.
    2. leon-iv
      leon-iv 2 November 2012 14: 35
      -1
      remind you of the Komsomolets?
      Or will we hand over at the leaders' birthdays or state holidays and then finish in the autonomous region?
  8. logic
    logic 2 November 2012 10: 44
    0
    In general, I wonder what the capabilities of the existing fleet are. For example, can at least one of our fleets withstand 1 AUG
    1. snek
      snek 2 November 2012 11: 24
      +1
      Quote: logik
      In general, I wonder what the capabilities of the existing fleet are. For example, can at least one of our fleets withstand 1 AUG

      The fleets are different. Pacific Fleet - confidently make 1 AUG (the question of what losses), but the Black Sea Fleet ... but, in the Black Sea and AUG are not found.
      1. Foamas
        Foamas 2 November 2012 11: 54
        0
        Quote: snek
        in the Black Sea and AUGs are not found.

        aa .. if they get started in Marmara? belay
        1. snek
          snek 2 November 2012 12: 14
          +1
          Quote: FoMaS
          aa .. if they get started in Marmara?

          An aircraft carrier is an ocean ship. Driving him into the sea means asking for trouble (mines, coastal missile systems, aircraft operating from ground bases). Yes, the United States has enough bases in Europe.
        2. MURANO
          MURANO 2 November 2012 12: 16
          0
          Quote: FoMaS
          aa .. if they get started in Marmara? belay

          So what? Let them live. Are we? Or will they attack? wink smile
          1. Foamas
            Foamas 2 November 2012 13: 06
            0
            The plans of world imperialism are dark and insidious (C) bully
            The attack is of course unlikely, in general it meant 1164 on the Black Sea Fleet, the Volcano should block from the base to the Aegean, TsU with A-50.
      2. Aleksys2
        Aleksys2 2 November 2012 12: 00
        +6
        Quote: snek
        Pacific Fleet - confidently make 1 AUG (question with what losses)

        What shall we endure?
        As of January 2012, the Pacific Fleet has three strategic missile submarines (in line 2), project 949A - 5 in line 2, project 971 - 7 in line 2, Varshavyanka - 8 in line 5, Cruisers - 2 of which "Admiral Lazarev" is in the slope, in the ranks "Varyag", Destroyers \ BOD - 7 in the ranks of 5, MPK / MRK - 9. In total, there are really 2 Anthea + 1 "Varyag".
        1. snek
          snek 2 November 2012 12: 11
          -2
          Quote: Aleksys2
          the Pacific Fleet has three strategic missile submarines (in line 2), project 949A - 5 in line 2, project 971 - 7 in line 2, Varshavyanka - 8 in line 5, Cruisers - 2 of them Admiral Lazarev "in a sludge, in the ranks" Varyag ", Destroyers \ BOD - 7 in the ranks of 5, MPK / MRK - 9. In total, actually 2 Anthea + 1" Varyag ".

          Well, for the destruction of 1 AUG, this is more than enough, in my opinion. 48 (24x2) granite on Anthea plus 16 basalts on the Varangian - the main question, of course, how all this good will be induced, but it rather depends on the place of the clash.
          1. Sokol peruna
            Sokol peruna 2 November 2012 13: 43
            +1
            snek
            Well, for the destruction of 1 AUG, this is more than enough, in my opinion. 48 (24x2) granite on Antaeus plus 16 basalts on the Varangian

            I agree. But this is if we consider the Pacific Fleet as a whole. But the Pacific Fleet is essentially two flotillas of Primorskaya and Kamchatskaya, the distance between which is more than 2000 km. If, for example, the AUG of a potential enemy will be in the Sea of ​​Japan, then only the Varyag with 16 volcanoes, the Bystry with 8 mosquitoes, 9 RC with 36 mosquitoes + diesel-electric submarines will be able to oppose it to the Pacific Fleet.
            1. MURANO
              MURANO 2 November 2012 14: 01
              -1
              Quote: Sokol Peruna
              But this is if we consider the Pacific Fleet as a whole

              Do not you think that the sun should be considered as a whole? smile Or will your fleet fight with the fleet, and the rest will observe while smoking?
              All this (the destruction of the AUG, the battle of the fleets) is a fantasy, far from reality.
              1. Sokol peruna
                Sokol peruna 2 November 2012 14: 13
                0
                MURANO
                Do not you think that the sun should be considered as a whole? Or will your fleet fight with the fleet, and the rest will observe while smoking?

                Well, so the probable enemy of the armed forces does not have 1 AUG. smile Yes, and not the fact that some will come. Here it seems to consider the opposition of the Pacific Fleet and 1 AUG ..
                All this (the destruction of the AUG, the battle of the fleets) is a fantasy, far from reality.

                I agree.
                1. MURANO
                  MURANO 2 November 2012 16: 40
                  0
                  Quote: Sokol Peruna
                  Yes, and not the fact that some will come

                  That's right. And if they come, nothing threatens us. As long as there are other types of aircraft .. wink
                  Quote: Sokol Peruna
                  Here it seems to consider the opposition of the Pacific Fleet and 1 AUG ..

                  Yes, but why consider what cannot be in nature? smile
    2. Aleksys2
      Aleksys2 2 November 2012 11: 43
      +5
      Quote: logik
      For example, can at least one of our fleets withstand 1 AUG

      No, not what.
  9. vadimN
    vadimN 2 November 2012 11: 17
    +1
    While the minister and other bureaucrats' brains are busy "obtaining" personal money at the expense of the country, there is no need to expect anything else ...
    If everything that Taburetkin and his "sparrows" managed to steal was put back into action, how many ships would they have built ...?
  10. Foamas
    Foamas 2 November 2012 11: 51
    0
    Another reason for delays concerns the construction of infrastructure for new submarines. "Yuri Dolgoruky" and "Alexander Nevsky" should go to serve at the base in Vilyuchinsk.

    For the first building ("Yuri Dolgoruky"), this reason apparently disappears, because it has been repeatedly voiced that he will remain in the Northern Fleet.
    http://flotprom.ru/news/?ELEMENT_ID=120887
    1. Aleksys2
      Aleksys2 2 November 2012 12: 03
      0
      I would like to ask knowledgeable people how the berth for submarines of 1,2,3 generation differs from moorings for submarines of 4th generation?
      1. alex86
        alex86 2 November 2012 20: 56
        0
        The berth for the 4th generation boat is different in that it still needs to be built in order to cut it in the process, but for boats 1,2,3 it is impossible to build and accordingly, you won’t cut anything (this is due to my deep illiteracy ...)
        1. s1н7т
          s1н7т 3 November 2012 01: 39
          0
          Quote: alex86
          The berth for the 4th generation boat is different in that it still needs to be built in order to saw it in the process,

          However, it is logical. Especially in light of recent events (
  11. silver_roman
    silver_roman 2 November 2012 14: 29
    +3
    "Yuri Dolgoruky" after being put into service will immediately go not to Vilyuchinsk, but to the museum, if the terms will continue to be delayed. but iron is not eternal, it gets old. and how difficult it was to foresee that the new boats would be based in Vilyuchinsk and that the base was not equipped for nuclear submarines ??? for this you probably need to be a psychic ...
    probably still the problem is not based, because it looks too stupid. the boat was built for 16 years and no one has ever wondered where it will stand ....
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 2 November 2012 18: 03
      0
      Quote: silver_roman
      for this you must be a psychic ...

      But who thinks about these boats.
      People are thinking about how to ensure comfortable rest.
      In general, thanks to Kirill for the humorous article, he made fun of the fun about "Boreas, Ash and Bulava". There is a good Russian proverb
      -Don't diarrhea so scrofula.
      1. silver_roman
        silver_roman 2 November 2012 18: 49
        0
        Yes, most likely you are right, but on this portal all the same interested people ;-)
  12. 955535
    955535 2 November 2012 14: 37
    0
    Aleksys2,
    Ideally, the ship in the base should be supplied with all types of power supply, as well as VVD, nutrient and fresh water. In fact, only 380/50 is supplied in a very limited amperage, fresh water, the loading of feed water onto the ship from the VVCh station (and especially in winter) an entire military operation.
    The difference is in the new piers at the locations of mooring devices and shore supply columns.
    1. Aleksys2
      Aleksys2 2 November 2012 15: 00
      0
      Quote: 955535
      The difference is in the new piers at the locations of mooring devices and shore supply columns.

      That is, to the old piers, without altering them, new boats, well, how not to moor?
  13. 955535
    955535 2 November 2012 17: 01
    +2
    You can moor. This is not difficult. But at the same time, one should not forget that ships should not waste the resource of their mechanisms in the base in vain. On ships of the 2,3nd and 220rd generations there are a lot of 400/XNUMX consumers. At the same time, this type of food was not supplied to the ships, the ships were always "threshed" with their ATT or APT, eating up their resource. And the condition of the old floating piers is appropriate. In my memory, there were cases when the crews were forced to fight for the unsinkability of the piers to which their ships were moored. There are many more examples.
    1. annodomene
      annodomene 2 November 2012 19: 55
      +3
      In the GB Western Facility, at sub-station number 8 there are: 220 V 400 Hz, 380 V 50 Hz, 175-320 V. Next to the last station on the SF is VVCh. True, the VVD is no longer fed to the pier (like steam, however), but there is fresh water. With regard to the pier load, the charge from the 3rd stage is easy to pull; starting a large compressor is no problem. And in Nerpa there is a piece of the pier of a completely new one, there the power station is the poet’s dream. I can’t vouch for other bb (there could have been a lot of changes), but in my opinion, almost without problems, new plats in Zap. The face will become easy ...
  14. v53993
    v53993 2 November 2012 19: 34
    +2
    Frankly, this figure is not encouraging: before the ships were built much faster and there were no such “records”.


    We used to have I.V.-level personalities. Stalin and L.P. Beria. Now "effective managers", who do not distinguish a fusion reaction from a fission reaction, if it is not a dollar equivalent.
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 2 November 2012 19: 36
      0
      Volodya they have one reaction ........... Anecdote from the office door scream, the clerk comes out, they ask him: Oral? He: no anal ....
  15. maxiv1979
    maxiv1979 2 November 2012 20: 18
    0
    everything is clear with the boat, see so crude
  16. s1н7т
    s1н7т 3 November 2012 01: 45
    0
    So listen to them, as we have all the best and the best in the Armed Forces - one blah-blah-blah. And the stool bitch has only one ring - 500 tons of green! What will the "patriots" say? laughing
  17. spok
    spok 3 November 2012 02: 33
    0
    the other day came a new shit "St. John's wort" http://www.npkfavorit.ru/zveroboy.html
    on raw periodic departures on optics and a thermal imager
    The radar and everything else has not yet started, but I think no better
    and for this shit gave 16 million wooden
  18. viktor_ui
    viktor_ui 3 November 2012 13: 41
    +1
    spok - hello ... read the link and judging by the "functionality" declared by the manufacturer, it seems like not very much "shit" should be. And the calibration of the system segments on our own had to be done, or the manufacturer should have been obliged to rebuild ??? If the optics and the thermal imager freeze during stream processing, then strain the software manufacturer - 100% of the problems will be in the protocol for processing the incoming information from the matrices (these matrices have their own chips for forming packets and I think that they are clearly not domestic). Interestingly, and the onboard "server" on solid-state media is sealed, or the old-fashioned "pancakes" twist?
    Yeah, I would love to run the little hands in this St. John's Wort ... my video surveillance servs are already tired drinks
    Passing spoka? what do you have, this atrocious plows at all 101% ???
  19. bubla5
    bubla5 3 November 2012 21: 50
    -1
    I agree so far there will be no effective modern manager like Beria or Berry, I’ll have to fight on boats like Somalis
    1. Santa Fe
      Santa Fe 4 November 2012 15: 20
      0
      Quote: bubla5
      until there is an effective, modern manager like Beria or Berry, you’ll have to fight on boats

      But Beria did not build a single battleship (as well as a heavy cruiser, an aircraft carrier and anything like that).

      They tried to build a battleship twice - each time the construction was delayed for many years
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 4 November 2012 15: 23
        0
        There was no task - so I didn't build it! The construction of battleships or "heavy cruisers" has never been in the first place, because everyone understood that there was no particular need for this - yes, it would be nice to have, but not to the detriment of more urgent matters ...
        1. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 4 November 2012 19: 55
          0
          Quote: Brother Sarich
          The construction of battleships or "heavy cruisers" has never been in the first place, because everyone understood that there was no particular need for this - yes, it would be nice to have, but not to the detriment of more urgent matters ...


          Have you heard anything about the big fleet program?
          1. Brother Sarych
            Brother Sarych 4 November 2012 20: 41
            +1
            Have you heard about priorities? Yes, fleet development programs were repeatedly adopted, but since the tsarist times they have not been chronically executed ...
            1. Santa Fe
              Santa Fe 5 November 2012 00: 45
              0
              Quote: Brother Sarich
              Yes, fleet development programs have been repeatedly adopted, but since the tsarist times they were not chronically executed...

              So we have come to an agreement.
              And even the effective manager Beria could not do anything
  20. vmf971
    vmf971 4 November 2012 20: 33
    0
    'it's just that everyone doesn't give a shit, no one needs the fleet and the commander-in-chief is not competent and the minister of defense does not care about the fleet