Military Review

Poland is going to war with Russia

117
Poland is going to war with Russia

On November 29, Deputy Minister of Defense of Poland Marcin Ocepa, speaking at a lecture at the AGH University of Science and Technology in Krakow, said that he considered the likelihood of a war with Polish participation "extremely high."


“What is the likelihood of a war in which we will take part? Very high. Too high for us to consider this scenario only hypothetically. If something is at least 30% likely from a political point of view, then I’m already preparing for it.”

Ochepa said.

Considering that a major military conflict is now taking place only in Ukraine, where Russia is conducting a military operation, a completely logical conclusion arises - Poland is considering starting a war against Russia. In this article, we will try to answer the question of how likely NATO countries are to enter the war on the side of Ukraine and under what conditions this can happen.

“The European Union will change as a result of the military conflict in Ukraine”


“What we are seeing today is not one of the post-World War II conflicts, but a direct, full-scale conflict involving not only the largest country in the world, but also - according to pre-war data - the second largest army in the world" ,

- said the Deputy Minister of Defense of Poland in Krakow, whose words are quoted by Polish edition of TVP3.

In his opinion, the course of the war will be decisive for China's plans not only for Taiwan. The European Union, according to Ocep, will also change "as a result of the conflict caused by Russia." Speaking about global politics, the Deputy Minister noted that it is necessary to strengthen cooperation with like-minded countries. He believes that it is important to cooperate not only with Europe, within NATO, but also with the Indo-Pacific region, including South Korea.

South Korea Marcin Ocepa remembered for a reason - at the moment, the Poles are actively buying up weapon at this country. Recently, a Polish-Korean conference on cooperation in the defense industry was held in Poland, about which reported the Polish website gov.pl.

“I have no doubt that 2022 will be the beginning of the coming years of fruitful cooperation in the defense industry between Poland and South Korea. The geopolitical situation, especially the aggressive policy of Russia, necessitated the rapid growth and modernization of the Polish armed forces. I am glad that we have found partners with whom we can counter threats while building bonds of mutual support, trust and cooperation. I think that the thread of mutual understanding that we have established will be strengthened, and cooperation will also extend to other areas,”

- said Deputy Prime Minister of Poland, Minister of National Defense Mariusz Blaszczak during the Polish-Korean conference on cooperation in the defense industry.

Mariusz Blaszczak noted that the Poles are waiting for the supply of military tanks K2 and K9 artillery as early as 2022, and FA-50 aircraft and CHUNMOO rocket launchers as early as 2023. Poland ordered armored vehicles and aircraft from South Korea in the summer, after part of its own arsenals had been exhausted - the Poles transferred most of the Soviet T-72 tanks and part of the modernized T-72 tanks (PT-91 Twardy) to Ukraine as part of support for the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

With regard to "changing the EU," Polish Deputy Defense Minister Marcin Ociepa made rather ambiguous statements, some of which could be interpreted as NATO preparing for war with Russia. For example, here is what was said about St. Petersburg.

“As for the Baltic policy, according to the Deputy Minister, it is important, not least because the Russian St. Petersburg is the largest city on the Baltic Sea. After the accession of Sweden and Finland to NATO, the influence of the Alliance in the Baltics will increase, the borders will expand. Speaking about Baltic politics, Ochepa recalled that during the rule of the government of "Law and Justice" for the naval fleet 10 new ships were ordered,

writes the Polish edition of TVP3.

The attacks of the Polish Minister of War in relation to St. Petersburg look, to put it mildly, rather strange. How does the "big city of St. Petersburg" threaten Poland and the Polish fleet? Why is the focus on fleet modernization? Are the Poles going on a "campaign to Petersburg"? These questions remain unanswered for the time being.

Is NATO ready to openly intervene in the military conflict in Ukraine?


In September, Serbian President Aleksandar Vucic predicted that the military conflict in Ukraine would escalate into a world war at the end of the year, as I reported in one of my materials. There were and still are certain grounds for this forecast, although by the end of the year, probably, the slide into the abyss of a world war will still not happen.

The entry of foreign troops into Ukraine is possible not only under the auspices of NATO. Former CIA director and ex-commander of the US and NATO forces in Afghanistan, David Petraeus, a few weeks ago, did not just say that a “multinational contingent” and not NATO itself could take part in the conflict in Ukraine. If the decision to send foreign troops to Ukraine is made, Poland will certainly take part in it. The entry of Polish troops into Western Ukraine, in principle, can take place at any time if a political decision is made, agreed with the partners of the Poles in the alliance. However, at the moment, the West has no agreement on this score.

At the moment, consensus in the West, apparently, has been reached only on one issue - Russia should not acquire new territories and retreat to the borders before the start of the NWO, 24.02.2022/1991/XNUMX. This, among other things, is directly indicated in the US National Security Strategy, which refers to the need to inflict a strategic defeat on Russia and prevent the “acquisition of territories by military means.” Crimea and part of the LPR and DPR, apparently, in the opinion of the West, may be the subject of bidding. In Ukraine, after the successes in Kharkiv and Kherson regions, they think differently and want to return to the borders of XNUMX, that is, to take both Donbass and Crimea.

It is not very clear how the West perceives this bluster of Ukrainian officials and the military, however, from public statements it follows that the US position is that Ukraine should determine the conditions for peace. And since Ukraine is not in the mood for compromises and peace talks with Russia, the situation will be decided on the battlefield.

Russia, as already mentioned in one of my previous articles, does not demonstrate a clear strategy in confrontation with the West and Ukraine, but only has tactics that change depending on the military-political situation. At the moment, the main goal of the Russian Federation is to keep the land corridor to the Crimea, the defense of the borders of new Russian territories. In addition, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and the People's Militia of the LDNR are trying to improve their positions in the DNR, trying to squeeze the enemy out of Bakhmut (Artemovsk).

In parallel, strikes are being made on the Ukrainian energy infrastructure, the main purpose of which is to persuade the authorities in Kyiv to peace negotiations. As for the impact of strikes on the energy structure on military operations, this is a debatable issue, it can only be noted that at the moment such an impact is not noticeable.

NATO or individual countries of the alliance (Poland, Romania) can theoretically intervene in a military conflict in Ukraine only in two cases - either if Ukraine begins to suffer a military defeat, or if Russia uses tactical nuclear weapons (TNW), the likelihood of which is now being actively discussed in the Western press.

For example, the American Council on Foreign Affairs (CFR) recently painted three scenarios for the use of tactical nuclear weapons by Russia in Ukraine - demonstration (testing), combat use (at the front) and mass use. True, in the case of the second option, NATO's intervention is clearly not predetermined - they may consider the risks of escalation too high and respond differently.

Another possible scenario for the entry of NATO troops is if Russia and the West agree on a scenario for dividing Ukraine.

In general, the NATO bloc is not interested in either a loss or a confident victory for Ukraine, it seems that the current scenario for the development of the conflict suits them quite well.
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  1. Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov
    Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov 2 December 2022 04: 20
    +1
    "Poland is going to war with Russia" -

    ***
    - You bastards will still answer for Susanin ...



    ***
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 2 December 2022 06: 10
      +13
      . What is the likelihood of a war in which we will take part?

      Yes, we just won't start it.

      Yes, tell me knowledgeable, did we start a war in Ukraine or are we still giving a head start?
      1. Civil
        Civil 2 December 2022 07: 57
        +2
        1. And where is the scenario in which we valiantly hoist a red-blue-white flag on Khreshchatyk?
        2. What kind of "world war" is the author talking about if we do not have allies ready to fight for us?
        3. In addition to Poland, we now have the Scandinavian flank of NATO, where 3 armies begin to deploy along our borders.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 2 December 2022 10: 46
          -16
          Quote: Civil
          1. And where is the scenario in which we valiantly hoist a red-blue-white flag on Khreshchatyk?

          It is already being implemented during the JWO (the flag should be red).

          Quote: Civil
          2. What kind of "world war" is the author talking about if we do not have allies ready to fight for us?

          West are nation-states united under one master ( ~ 60). You may consider them allies, but I consider them vassals.

          Russia is a multinational state ~ 200 nationalities.

          So who has more allies?

          Quote: Civil
          3. In addition to Poland, we now have the Scandinavian flank of NATO

          Was it different during WWII?


          The West will certainly get involved in a war when it realizes that Russia is winning in the NWO.
          1. RUR
            RUR 2 December 2022 23: 08
            +2
            "Was it different during WWII?" a lend-lease? Did not hear? Or do you think that only 4%, but Zhukov was sure that without him the war would not have been won ... In the USSR and the Russian Federation, they hardly talk about the bombing of Britain, and then the Anglo-American, which made it impossible for the Reich industry to work in 3 shifts - The Reich worked the whole war in 1 (ONE) shift ...
        2. Oleg812spb
          Oleg812spb 9 December 2022 01: 55
          0
          You will have a squirrel, there will be a whistle! (C)
      2. private person
        private person 3 December 2022 09: 13
        +1
        Yes, tell me knowledgeable, did we start a war in Ukraine or are we still giving a head start?

        Well, due to the fact that we can’t put an end to the country, the Poles felt strength. Well, why can’t Russia bend some kind of rogue, and here a member of Natu feels strength behind them. But we did not start the war, we are against the war in our NWO.
    2. laws70
      laws70 2 December 2022 06: 27
      -3
      Poland alone did not like to go to war with Russia before and will never go again! Even if he receives the American nuclear weapons placed with them for personal use. Only as part of a company of stronger comrades. The reason is not even in historical memory, but in banal cowardice.
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 2 December 2022 07: 33
        +2
        Quote from: laws70
        Poland alone did not like to go to war with Russia before and will never go again!

        Times change, styles of war change, everything changes. Poland is not just pumped up with weapons. Poland, the Poland in which shipbuilding and metallurgy, mechanical engineering and the coal industry were destroyed, is being prepared to become another battering ram against Russia. When the Ukrainian soldiers run out, the Polish ones will take over. But they will enter not under the auspices of NATO, but under Polish flags, with the tacit consent of the rest of Europe. They will enter the war when it becomes clear that the Russians are very close to final victory. Ukraine will no longer be given away just like that, this card will be played to the end (that is, as long as there are poor countries in which, out of desperation, hundreds of thousands of young people can be thrown into the trenches) ...
        1. laws70
          laws70 2 December 2022 11: 07
          +1
          When the Ukrainian soldiers run out, the Polish ones will take over.

          The main question is why? Poland now needs reparations from Germany and the Lviv region of Ukraine. By and large, they don’t need to bite off anything from Russia, and it may turn out to be too tough for a piece. They are never brothers to us - we'll roam around Warsaw and no one will stand up.
          1. Doccor18
            Doccor18 2 December 2022 12: 07
            0
            Quote from: laws70
            The main question is why?

            Democators will set conditions that cannot be refused. And a bonus for combat losses will be several western regions of a torn country.
            Quote from: laws70
            By and large, they don’t need to bite off anything from Russia

            And who told you that the Poles will go to Russia? All possible future clashes will be on Ukrainian territory and nothing more. "Red lines", as always, no one will cross ...
            1. Myths
              Myths 3 December 2022 01: 05
              0
              They are a little scared there too.
              The idea of ​​the GXNUMX countries is aimed at reducing Russia's income and preventing a jump in world prices after the European embargo enters. The hitch in the arrangements was Poland, which demanded additional conditions to keep prices below market prices in order for Russia to cut its spending on the conflict with Ukraine.
        2. Myths
          Myths 3 December 2022 00: 22
          +1
          They prepared the Poles for slaughter for the USSR, it did not work out. After that, they moved the zone to Ukraine and let it go under Russia. When Poland enters the war, nuclear hell awaits, no one will feel sorry for them. It is true if there is enough will, and if not, they will wait for the collapse of the country and their tribunal. What will happen next in both cases, I think, is not worth talking about.
      2. bayard
        bayard 2 December 2022 09: 28
        +10
        Quote from: laws70
        The reason is not even in historical memory, but in banal cowardice.

        One should never underestimate the enemy, especially in a situation where one's own condition as a military power is in question. Many, both before the SVO, and during it, swaggered at the "cowardly kokles" ... flew in with a "heroic whistle" ... but they did not run away. And the Poles historically did not celebrate a coward, and even the Polish ambition and cockiness and "gentry arrogance" have generally become textbooks.
        And what kind of "loner" can there be for Poland if Ukraine has been fighting for 9+ months in the war with Russia?
        Or have you already won the Armed Forces of Ukraine in your mriyah?
        There is more work and work.
        So there will be at least two potentials against the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation - the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the Polish Army.
        Why is Poland now rattling its armor so loudly?
        It's simple - from day to day, a mobilized and trained contingent of at least 300 thousand will enter the NWO zone (I think a little more, there are + volunteers and those who returned from rest according to the rotation of the first wave). This will increase the total strength of our grouping by 2,5-3 times. And this is a very serious threat to the fairly exhausted forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which at the same time lose their main advantage - Numerical Superiority. And this is very worrying for the curators of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, because their mobilized reserves have not yet been trained and are not a fighting force.
        - What should the Anglo-Saxons do?
        - Send "Polish hussars" to attack. In vain did they feed them, did they promise Volyn and Galicia?
        So the drums thundered in the Polish camp.
        Meanwhile, the ground began to freeze with frost, and soon the fields would become completely passable for vehicles.
        1. laws70
          laws70 2 December 2022 11: 01
          -8
          So the drums thundered in the Polish camp.

          Poland in its entire history has never yet attacked an enemy comparable in strength (in the Polish sense). They went to Russia in times of great turmoil, and with the growing influence of the autocracy within Russia, all Polish campaigns ended. Yes, everything still hurts them from Pozharsky, but to shove a country with nuclear weapons ... Are you kidding? Duda has already said everything to Vovan and the Lexus.
          1. comradChe
            comradChe 2 December 2022 11: 27
            +3
            In times of "troubles" say gentlemen went to Muscovy? And now you don’t notice the time of “TROUBLES” AND “GREAT SPLIT”? This “blindness” will cost Russia dearly, oh dear ...
          2. Foul skeptic
            Foul skeptic 2 December 2022 12: 06
            +4
            Poland in its entire history has never yet attacked an enemy comparable in strength (in the Polish sense).

            Tell the Teutonic Order
            1. laws70
              laws70 2 December 2022 15: 07
              0
              Tell the Teutonic Order

              He is here and what?! On Lake Peipus, ours drowned the Germans from the Livonian Order, if anything. Before autocracy, too, there was no tomorrow ..
              1. Foul skeptic
                Foul skeptic 2 December 2022 15: 10
                +2
                On Lake Peipus, ours drowned the Germans from the Livonian Order, if anything.

                AND? Should this disprove the fact that the Poles fought with an enemy comparable in strength?
              2. My doctor
                My doctor 2 December 2022 21: 19
                +1
                Quote from: laws70
                He is here and what?! On Lake Peipus, ours drowned the Germans from the Livonian Order, if anything. Before autocracy, too, there was no tomorrow ..

                If anything, the remains of those who were not finished off by another country were drowned there.
            2. RUR
              RUR 2 December 2022 22: 50
              -1
              From the book of the German historian Guido Knopp - History of the Wehrmacht. Outcomes (can be downloaded for free)
              "The war against Poland created a myth that both the Germans themselves and their opponents very quickly and willingly believed - the myth that the Wehrmacht is an invincible and ultra-modern military machine. At the same time, the lightning victory over Poland cost the Wehrmacht dearly: the losses of the army were barely did not exceed the permissible limits: more than 16 German soldiers died. However, there were more severe losses: almost 000% of the divisional equipment was disabled. It was only possible to close these "holes" only by the spring of 50. In addition, the Germans used up most of their of ammunition. A quick replenishment of the reserve was not even worth dreaming of, since the capabilities of German industry were fairly short of the needs of the Wehrmacht. The steel industry was short of 1940 tons of steel per month for the army, and there was nothing to talk about increasing the production of gunpowder. Only that on September 600 the battle with Poland had already been practically won, saving Germany from a difficult situation at the front.In early October, General the warmaster reported that the available reserves of ammunition would be enough for only a third of the divisions, and then for a period of no more than 000 days. The position of the Luftwaffe was no better, whose support ensured a lightning victory: the supply of bombs was also enough for only two weeks, after which, according to the Air Force Inspector General, Colonel-General Milch [18], the pilots would have to play "skat" [14] . When Hitler found out about this state of affairs, he was furious." Further, Knopp, contradicting himself, writes that one of the reasons for the defeat of Poland was the attack of the USSR from the east on September 55
          3. bayard
            bayard 2 December 2022 12: 55
            +6
            Quote from: laws70
            Poland in its entire history has never yet attacked an enemy comparable in strength (in the Polish sense). They went to Russia in times of great turmoil, and with the growing influence of the autocracy within Russia, all Polish campaigns ended.

            Come on?? belay
            Who went to Moscow with Napoleon? Did you fight on the Borodino field? (At least read Glinka - Miloradovich's adjutant)
            And who knocked out Petlyura from Kyiv and for the whole so-called. "Ukraine" coveted? And then he piled on Tukhachevsky near Warsaw?
            And who incited Hitler to a joint campaign against the USSR until 1939 inclusive? About 500 Poles fought as part of the Wehrmacht!
            And now the Polish speech is constantly on the air, we have them here like dirt. And nothing hurts them from Pozharsky. I am sure that the vast majority in Poland does not even know who he is.
            Quote from: laws70
            Duda has already said everything to Vovan and the Lexus.

            Duda said this to the dummy "Makron", justifying himself for a joint provocation with the cocktails. Then in the United States they sat down on treason, oh.renelly from the fact that these two slugs were drawn into a nuclear war.
            And now they are acting on command from the United States.
            And if their former serfs are not afraid to fight with Russia, and they are fighting (!), Then it’s a sin for the Poles to doubt. Yes, they have no doubt - since 2014, their special forces and PMCs have been fighting here.
            1. laws70
              laws70 2 December 2022 14: 22
              0
              And who incited Hitler to a joint campaign against the USSR until 1939 inclusive?

              Someone England and the USA.
              And nothing hurts them from Pozharsky.

              During the Euro-2012, our fans unfurled a banner with a hero on the podium, in which the Poles recognized Pozharsky (probably from the photo). After that, FIFA slapped our federation with a fine of 200 thousand euros.
              now they operate on command from the USA.

              They act under the guise of mercenaries, but declaring war is a little different ..
              1. bayard
                bayard 2 December 2022 14: 44
                0
                Quote from: laws70
                They act under the guise of mercenaries, but declaring war is a little different ..

                Nobody declares war in this war.
                Quote from: laws70
                Someone England and the USA.

                England - yes. The United States, on the contrary, was preparing Hitler for the war with England (and hence the United States). The US was counting on destroying or weakening the British Empire. To do this, they also strengthened the USSR (recognition, trade agreements, drawing up a plan for the first five-year plan, supplying factories and even entire industries on a turnkey basis). But the Poles acted on their own initiative (with an eye on England) - they were the first to conclude a non-aggression pact with Hitler for the sake of a joint campaign against the USSR (with the patronage of England, of course).
                Or have they forgotten why they dubbed her the Gehenna of Europe?
                Quote from: laws70
                the Poles recognized Pozharsky

                Well, there were a couple of literate people.
            2. RUR
              RUR 3 December 2022 13: 01
              +1
              "And who incited Hitler to a joint campaign against the USSR until 1939 inclusive? About 500 Poles fought as part of the Wehrmacht!" 000 500 are Poles from Silesia - then part of Germany, with full mobilization it is difficult not to get into the army with all diligence ... I read that Goering came to Poland 000-5 times - I don’t remember exactly - with persuasion to join Germany on a campaign against east, but was refused. And how is your Polish campaign against the USSR together with the Reich consistent with the conclusion of the Polish-British / French military alliance (Anglo-Polish military alliance - interstate agreements between Poland and Great Britain, concluded in 7), something here does not fit you, softly speaking, maybe there will be links to serious documents, just try, otherwise you get nonsense with rubbish
              1. bayard
                bayard 3 December 2022 14: 23
                +1
                Quote: RUR
                how this Polish campaign against the USSR together with the Reich is consistent with the conclusion of the Polish-British / French military alliance (Anglo-Polish military alliance - interstate agreements between Poland and Great Britain, concluded in 1939

                Well, if you really read something on these topics, then maybe you remember who was the first to conclude a "non-aggression pact" with Hitler? Already in 1934?
                I give a hint - Jozef Klemens Pilsudski. yes
                And the Poles considered this agreement as a strategic alliance against the USSR. Their general staffs coordinated joint actions in a future war, divided our territory among themselves. They even had a wild dispute because of the Crimea arose - each strove for himself.
                And also remember and look carefully WHO came to Poland for Pilsudski's funeral. Look at the photograph (in color!) of a grieving Hitler at Pilsudski's coffin. Goering followed the coffin in the front row!
                What then happened in 1939?
                Lot .
                And the main violin in this "much" was played by England.
                Firstly, Hitler was offered to "go to war in the USSR", and in order for him to gain confidence, they approved the Anschluss of Austria and surrendered all of Czechoslovakia to him (although Hitler was only interested in areas inhabited by Germans until then). They gobbled up Czechoslovakia with Poland with great pleasure. And then their general staffs began to coordinate the future campaign to the east. But Poland 's appetites turned out to be so hypertrophied , and their behavior so arrogant , that the Germans decided to abandon such an alliance . In addition, they learned about the true plans of the British - to set Germany against the USSR, and then, together with France (the strongest army in Europe) and Poland that had gone over to finish off the winner (most likely Germany). And so do away with the two main competitors.
                Hitler understood everything and made an elegant maneuver - he transferred to Hungary part of the territory of the occupied Czechoslovakia in the place of its borders with the USSR.
                For what ?
                Killed two birds with one stone. Even more . He ruled out a border conflict with the USSR, which could be organized by the British or Poles, which created the prerequisites for an agreement with the USSR, bought himself a faithful ally - Hungary, and after concluding a non-aggression pact (not a pact) with the USSR, he shared the Hell of Europe with him.
                The agreement with the USSR provided him with a reliable rear and profitable trade agreements, which gave him the opportunity to deliver his main blow - to France. Thus destroying the threat to themselves in Europe.
                Quote: RUR
                . I read that Goering came to Poland 5-7 times - I don’t remember exactly

                Of course, he came, maybe more often - after all, until 1939 they were practically allies. Therefore, not only "German" Poles served in the Wehrmacht. Many supporters of Pilsudski from the military believed that it was precisely the turn towards England and the stupid arrogance of the Polish authorities that did not allow them to participate on an equal footing with the Germans in the longed-for campaign to the east. Well, not a carcass, so a stuffed animal - many took part.
                Quote: RUR
                interstate agreements between Poland and Great Britain concluded in 1939

                just led Poland to such a deplorable state. England chose them as a victim, in order for the German troops to reach the borders with the USSR and clashes began between them (they would have arranged provocations) - all for the sake of the war between Germany and the USSR.
                But Hitler first turned west ... and in a matter of weeks destroyed England's main ally on the continent. And even began to bomb the British Isles themselves. lol
                And then, not having succeeded in his air attacks and not having a fleet for a quick victory over Britain, Hitler again made a feint with his ears - that very flight of Hess to England. To renew agreements with the Britons on a campaign to the east, but on their own terms. No wonder the "Hess Case" is still classified and the stamp will never be removed.
                No wonder Stalin called him (Hitler) a "circus performer".
                And then - on the morning of June 22, 1941, when Churchill heard that Germany had attacked the USSR, he said "England is saved."
                The Poles, on the other hand, always joined the enemies of Russia, participated in their campaigns, or went over to their side during the war itself (as was the case in WWI). "Gaena of Europe" is a well-deserved name. And fair.
                1. RUR
                  RUR 3 December 2022 15: 10
                  -2
                  ""Gaena of Europe" is a well-deserved name." Churchill did not call Poland that, he says: "appetite like a hyena" and nothing more - he read his history of WWII in the original (Gehena - the first "e" must be replaced with "i")

                  Do you have any references to documents, except for the "non-aggression" pact with Hitler? Already in 1934? , there is nothing about a joint campaign to the East, the text was available in print, and, by the way, agreements such as the Anglo-Polish military alliance are concluded for a long time - often several years, the agreement did not contain any secret protocols, no one in the historical environment talks about them , in contrast to the Molotov Pact and Ribbentrop. The dispute between Czechoslovakia and Poland over the Czech region has a rather long history somewhere from 1918-1920, when the Czech Republic simply annexed this region inhabited by Poles, taking advantage of Poland's war with Ukraine and later with Russia .. After 1 World League of Nations recognized the right of nations to self-determination , Czechoslovakia and violated this principle - this dispute has nothing to do with Hitler
                  1. bayard
                    bayard 3 December 2022 16: 18
                    0
                    I understand your national feelings, but the truth is more precious.
                    Here is what German newspapers wrote about Piłsudski's death:
                    "New Germany bows its flags and standards before the coffin of this great statesman who for the first time had the courage of open trust and FULL UNION (!) With the National Socialist Reich" .
                    Wrote "Volkischer beobachter".
                    Yes, type in the search engine at least the article "Grieving Hitler at the coffin of Pilsudski" in the "Favorite Journal". Or do you only read your own fairy tales?
                    Quote: RUR
                    the agreement did not contain any secret protocols, no one in the historical environment speaks about them, unlike the Molotov and Ribbentrop Pacts.

                    smile Indeed ? And there was no interaction and joint planning of general staffs??
                    And Goering did not go to the then Polish Belovezhskaya Pushcha to hunt, as if to his home? On a visit to Pilsudski and later? Didn't walk in the front row behind his coffin??
                    Imagine photographs: "Goering and Stalin on the hunt", or "for a friendly conversation." smile
                    Can you imagine such photos?
                    And the photo "Hitler at the coffin of Pilsudski" - IS!
                    And after the capture of Krakow by German troops, the Nazis put up an HONOR GUARD at the tomb of Pilsudski.
                    Quote: RUR
                    Churchill did not call Poland that, he says: "appetite like a hyena"

                    ??? Didn't call?
                    Maybe you haven't seen the English poster of "Heaven of Europe" either?
                    On which Poland is depicted in the form of that same disgusting Gehenna?
                    Search engine in hand - everything is available. lol
                    Quote: RUR
                    You don't have any links to documents

                    lol You don't have any proof that this is not the case.
                    Or maybe you haven't seen the American movie "What We Fight For"? There, the US Ambassador to the USSR (Harriman's predecessor, Roosevelt's friend) gives a lecture as an introduction to the film, including the role of Poland.
                    Quote: RUR
                    After the 1st World League of Nations recognized the right of nations to self-determination, Czechoslovakia violated this principle

                    But Poland did not violate it in relation to the Ukrainian and Belarusian territories it seized? Did not ignore the constant proposals of the USSR to hold referendums on self-determination in these territories?
                    Not ?
                    Can't you see the beam in your own eye?

                    I have no bias towards the Poles as people and people, I have a Pole friend from a military school - the grandson of an officer of the Polish Army (his grandfather remained in the USSR, got married, his son and grandson became Soviet officers). And you should have realized that last time Poland suffered solely because of its immoderate ambitions and because it became a puppet of British politics. This role was originally assigned to her by the British.
                    And today Poland again went on the old rake. Just a tracing paper from those events.
                    Do you think that this time fartanet?
                    Indeed, Churchill was right.
                    1. RUR
                      RUR 3 December 2022 16: 52
                      -2
                      Goering did not go as if to his home in the then Polish Belovezhskaya Pushcha to hunt? On a visit to Pilsudski and later? Didn't walk in the front row behind his coffin??


                      I myself wrote about this, why talk about the same thing, only it’s not a visit, but the visit of the one asking (about a joint campaign) - in diplomacy - as in life, the one who needs something goes on a visit.
                      Poster... so what? Russia is also represented in the form of a bear or Asian faces are drawn, so what? Is this some kind of proof? Do you think a bear is nobler than a hyena? This symbol is very unfortunate - the bear is stupid and cowardly, unlike the hyena, which is smart and bold, the bear is closer to the jackal - look for the opinions of zoologists on the net.

                      "But Poland did not violate it in relation to the Ukrainian and Belarusian territories it seized"
                      you see, the AGREEMENT on the creation of the Commonwealth (the first) still exists ... no one has dissolved it and has not legally abolished it, let me remind you that only the left-bank Ukraine (Khmelnitsky) voluntarily became part of the Russian Kingdom, and the rest is stuck, by the way, the following the hetman after Khmelnitsky no longer wanted alliances with Moscow, but he was physically eliminated ... By the way, these territories stayed longer in the Republic of Poland than in the Republic of Ingushetia ....

                      You have no proof that this is not the case. Or maybe you haven't seen the American film


                      I have the Molotov Pact, and you have a film, and empty chatter ...

                      Threat, by the way, I'm interested in the truth in this matter and in general, and not in national feelings, like yours ...
                      1. bayard
                        bayard 3 December 2022 18: 57
                        +1
                        Quote: RUR
                        I have the Molotov Pact, and you have a film, and empty chatter ...

                        You have only babble about the pact, which is not a pact at all, but a treaty. The same as it was in many European countries with Germany. The USSR signed such an agreement later than all. All other tales are falsifications of Andropov's henchmen who were preparing the collapse of my country.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Poster... so what?

                        So they saw. bully And they are satisfied with their image. No.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Do you think a bear is nobler than a hyena?

                        Definitely - he is the owner of his forest \ Taiga.
                        Quote: RUR
                        This symbol is very unfortunate - the bear is stupid and cowardly

                        Come on ? So cowardly that he enters into battle with a tiger, a pack of wolves, knocks down an elk ... but at the same time in the summer he manages with berries and roots, fish? Didn't you come across one like this in the forest?
                        By the way, the bear is a symbol of Berlin, which is translated as Bear Land, or Bear Land \ Bear Corner. It is on the coat of arms of Berlin.
                        Quote: RUR
                        The AGREEMENT on the creation of the Commonwealth (the first) still exists.

                        Do you believe such fakes?
                        Quote: RUR
                        no one dissolved it and did not legally abolish it,

                        It was split several times.
                        Officially.
                        international acts.
                        As punishment for crimes.
                        And if you dare to roll your lip on the entire right bank lol , then let me remind you that Warsaw is an ordinary city of the Russian Empire. And you are ordinary separatists and criminals. Not only that - traitors who betrayed during the war. Too much and much has been forgiven you , you have been given statehood , you have restored the state and even been given lands that never belonged to Poland . Not obtained by you in the hardest war. You were given the lands of Prussia.
                        In vain.
                        Quote: RUR
                        I'm interested in the truth

                        The truth is that you got into our family affairs, together with the Anglo-Saxons made a coup in our Ukraine and since 2014 you have been participating in the civil war on our land. On ours, because until the end of 2014 I was a citizen of that unfortunate failed country, on the division of which you have now rolled your lip.
                        It is a crime .
                        and if Poland really and officially gets into this conflict, then it will simply cease to exist. And do not flatter yourself that the "Liver Sausage" is now at the head of Germany, it may be replaced by the "Iron Chancellor".
                        Did you miss the next Section?
                        We are returning our own - the unity of our own state. You have committed and continue to commit a crime. And with your stupidity you are constantly provoking a nuclear war between the great powers.
                        Quote: RUR
                        a hyena that is smart and brave,

                        Don't flatter yourself about your mind.
                        And I feel sorry for you.
                      2. RUR
                        RUR 3 December 2022 19: 54
                        -2
                        "You only have chatter about the pact, which is not a pact at all, but a Treaty. The same as many European states had with Germany"
                        Oh really ?! And why then does the agreement between Poland and Germany cause such anger in you ... And what, everyone has a secret Protocol ??? Why, then, did the Congress of the USSR condemn only its own Pact and Protocol, tell me, I beg you. But what an opportunity it was to blame everyone else, especially Poland, but something was silent like w @ pa


                        Do you believe such fakes?

                        Well, tell me, where and when did Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania or Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine announce the termination of the existence of the Republic of Poland?


                        It has been split several times. Officially. international acts. As punishment for crimes


                        And where are these acts, tell me, where are these states of the Austrian Empire, Republic of Ingushetia, Prussia? Is it not in the dustbin of history along with its acts? Legally, the first RP has not been dissolved / liquidated, i.e. even though it exists...
                        And the presence of Muscovy in Ode is for what? Or how Molotov howled when the German ambassador announced the declaration of war: "What are we for?" Tell me, But you don’t answer questions for some reason, why?
                      3. bayard
                        bayard 4 December 2022 04: 40
                        0
                        Hamim?
                        This is bad . And this always happens when the opponent's arguments are stupid and unreliable.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Oh really ?! And why then does the agreement between Poland and Germany cause such anger in you ...

                        I have no anger at this , just a factual statement . Poland was the first to recognize the German government after the National Socialist takeover, when other European powers refrained from doing so. And she concluded her Pact (agreement) with Hitler. The agreement itself, like the agreement with the USSR, was quite standard for its time - "On Good Neighborliness and Mutual Understanding". But Poland also had its own applications to it. This was known in England , France , the USA , they talked about it , wrote about it , made statements . And if the statements made by the American ambassador to the USSR, made on camera, are not an argument for you, these are your problems. If you do not want to see and recognize something, this is your choice. Criminals very often deny evidence against them that is obvious.
                        As for the so-called. secret annex to the Treaty between Germany and the USSR in 1939, then this is a fake, long exposed with the entire evidence base, with the testimony of witnesses and PARTICIPANTS of that falsification - the Volkogonov gang at a dacha near Moscow who were engaged in this. Several participants in the creation of that fake (and they falsified hundreds of documents there) gave detailed testimony, handed over the typewriter on which it was printed, seals and stamps imitating the signatures of Soviet statesmen. This evidence was presented to the public by Zorkin and a number of other representatives of the General Prosecutor's Office of the Russian Federation.
                        What was it for?
                        For the collapse of the Soviet state, for his accusation of "complicity in unleashing WWII." The group was created on the orders of Andropov, a traitor and curator of the conspiracy. There is an extensive literature on this with all the evidence base.
                        By the way, and a fake about the execution of Polish officers in prisoner of war camps. A very gross fake. Also exposed, including during the eshumation of the remains. They were all shot from German weapons, and this happened in the AUTUMN 1941.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Why, then, did the Congress of the USSR condemn only its own Pact and Protocol, tell me, I beg you.

                        because this fake was presented to him as a genuine document. And by and large it was already a congress of traitors.
                        And most importantly, the Soviet Union sent its troops into Western Belarus and Western Ukraine only after ALL the Polish leadership fled from the country abroad. In fact, at that time there was no legal authority left in Poland, and the USSR sent its troops only to those areas that were historically ours (except Lviv), which were inhabited by ethnic Belarusians and Ukrainians, in order to take them under protection. The reunification of these territories with the Ukrainian SSR and the BSSR took place later in compliance with all legal rules.
                        Or have you forgotten HOW these lands became part of Poland in 1920?
                        Quote: RUR
                        Well, tell me, where and when did Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania or Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine announce the termination of the existence of the Republic of Poland?

                        Do you even understand what you just wrote?
                        What Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine? fool Such states were not even in the project at that time. All these were the provinces of the Republic of Ingushetia.
                        But since you are already saying that there is no document on the abolition of the Republic of Poland, then I will answer you in the same coin - try to find a document on the abolition of the USSR.
                        Is there such an act?
                        The criminals Yeltsin, Shushkevich and Kravchuk said that they signed something on a napkin (!) Then, having got drunk, they signed something ... But there is no such document in the archives of the Russian Federation, Belarus and State Administration! And never was. It's fake . It was just a verbal statement. And they did not have the right to make such statements - the Constitution of the USSR has a clearly defined regulation. And in the referendum, the citizens of the USSR overwhelmingly voted for the preservation of the USSR.
                        Therefore, legally, the USSR exists to this day.
                        In addition, Ukraine has not demarcated its borders, and the UN has no idea WHERE the borders of this declared UN member pass. And the Russian Federation, as the successor of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR, has all legal rights to all its historical lands, if their status is not legally declared, with demarcation of borders.
                        Well , have measured the rights ?
                        Quote: RUR

                        It has been split several times. Officially. international acts. As punishment for crimes


                        And where are these acts, tell me, where are these states of the Austrian Empire, Republic of Ingushetia, Prussia? Is it not in the dustbin of history along with its acts? Legally, the first RP has not been dissolved / liquidated, i.e. even though it exists...

                        So RP has long sunk into history. And rotted in her landfill without a trace. Moreover, she did this much earlier than Prussia, the Austrian Empire (later Austria-Hungary), RI. And if you dare to declare something about ... rights on the territory of the Republic of Poland, then we ALL THE MORE have the right to claim our rights on the territory of modern Poland as our historical fiefdoms. Do you want this Pandora's box?
                        Think well, because it will have consequences.
                        Quote: RUR
                        And the location of Muscovy in Ode

                        What "Ode"? Are you talking about poetry? smile
                        And if about the period of stay of the Russian principalities as part of the Golden Horde, then you at least need to imagine WHAT kind of State it was.
                        Have you seen the letters of the Horde khans to the Russian princes in the State Archive? smile
                        Have you seen what language they are written in? smile
                        in Mongolian? smile
                        in Tatar? smile
                        Maybe in Chinese? smile
                        Not ! They are all written in RUSSIAN.
                        And for "300 years of Mongol rule" not a drop of blood appeared in the Russian people ... lol modern Mongols.
                        How so ?
                        Yes, so - the so-called. "Mongol-Tatar yoke", this is the same fake as the annex to the agreement between the USSR and Germany in 1939. Only even more rude. And by the way, this is also a Polish notion (about the "yoke").
                        Quote: RUR
                        Or how Molotov howled when the German ambassador announced the declaration of war: "What are we for?"

                        Are you delirious, dear?
                        How Molotov behaved then is known from eyewitnesses, and it was the German ambassador who almost fainted while reading his statement. The answer was: "Germany will pay dearly for this perfidy." Do you know such a concept - "treachery"? And the Soviet Union kept its word. Germany regretted it very bitterly. You will regret it too.
                      4. RUR
                        RUR 4 December 2022 11: 09
                        -2
                        https://pikabu.ru/story/bitva_titanov_medved_protiv_tigra_5161960

                        Of the 17 recorded skirmishes between bears and tigers in the Sikhote-Alin region for 65-76 years, the statistics are as follows: 8 cases of predators did not finish the job. 6 tiger wins. 3 bear wins. In addition, 7 bears and 9 cubs were killed in dens.

                        in general, all predators eat. The fact is that the bear often eats it, no worse than a jackal, while hyenas are very hardy, able to chase prey for hours, not very keen on this business.

                        have you seen the letters of the Horde khans to the Russian princes in the State Archive? smile
                        Have you seen what language they are written in? smile In Mongolian? smile In Tatar? smile
                        Maybe in Chinese? smile
                        Not ! They are all written in RUSSIAN.
                        And for "300 years of Mongol rule" not a drop of blood admixture appeared in the Russian people ... lol modern Mongols.


                        Diplomas only your label were called.
                        Yes, everything is fake, where only in Russian art do the captains Rybnikovs, Vasily Alibabaevichs and Sheherezads Stepanovnas come from, but oh well, I'm not talking about this with you

                        So RP has long sunk into history. And rotted in her landfill without a trace. Moreover, she did this much earlier than Prussia, the Austrian Empire (later Austria-Hungary), RI. And if you dare to declare something about ... rights on the territory of the Republic of Poland, then we ALL THE MORE have the right to claim our rights on the territory of modern Poland


                        Legally, however, the RP still exists. Your rights are already clearly visible in Ukraine - no one in the world recognizes them and does not recognize them
                      5. bayard
                        bayard 4 December 2022 12: 36
                        0
                        Quote: RUR
                        hyenas are very hardy, capable of chasing prey for hours

                        Well, since you like your image so much, we will consider it your totem.

                        Quote: RUR
                        where only in Russian art do captains Rybnikov, Vasily Alibabaevich and Sheherezad Stepanovna come from,

                        smile And-and? And what about Muslim-Persian patronymics? Or have you already attributed the Mongols to the Persians? Have you confused the Chiny with the Dravidians?
                        Quote: RUR
                        Yes, everything is fake

                        Like all of Europe.
                        Have you heard of such a people - LUTICHI?
                        They also built a capital city for themselves - Lutentia.
                        In addition, they were very musical, they adored stringed instruments. For example - LUTNE.
                        Do you know what this city is now called?
                        Where is ?
                        And who lives there now?
                        And what did they write about their history?
                        Where can you keep up with them on a gray mare with feks.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Legally, however, the RP still exists.

                        Only in your fantasies.
                        You don't even understand the literal meaning of this self-name.
                        Let me tell you - in Rus' there was also a people with the same name, only in their own language, the literal meaning is the same - VYATICHI.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Your rights are already clearly visible in Ukraine - no one in the world recognizes them and does not recognize them

                        Everything has its time . Everyone admits everything. And we don’t need these confessions if (judging by your reasoning) both the USSR and the Russian Empire exist to this day. After all, no one dissolved them, did not abolish them, and there are no acts about that.
                        And according to this, not only the lands of the so-called Ukraine, but also Poland, are part of the Russian Empire. And legally it is.
                        And your Commonwealth was first divided in several steps, and then abolished. The Russian tsars at least preserved the very name of Poland, they did not ban the language, they built a university for you, they provided you with liberties and benefits. But the snake always bites its savior. As is Hyena.
                      6. RUR
                        RUR 4 December 2022 16: 32
                        -1
                        Well, since you like your image so much, we will consider it your totem.

                        No, this is your image ... they attributed nonsense to Churchill and believe in it is stupid

                        "I'll tell you - in Rus' there was also a people with the same name, only in their own language, the literal meaning is the same - VYATICHI."


                        Don't tell me... What kind of Rus'? - Vyatichi is a distorted name for Vened (s) - a Lehitskaya group - Lyakhs, Western Slavs, not Slavicized Chud / Finno-Finns - read Klyuchevsky lecture 11 or 12 - I don’t remember exactly, or Dal, who your dictionary wrote, about a Chud who learned Slavic language - will you also yell that it's fake?

                        Even the Russian wiki writes https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyatichi#Etymology

                        "According to The Tale of Bygone Years, the Vyatichi and Radimichi were "from the kind of Poles", that is, Western Slavs."


                        Will be repolonized over time, of course...
                      7. bayard
                        bayard 5 December 2022 05: 41
                        0
                        Quote: RUR
                        "According to The Tale of Bygone Years, the Vyatichi and Radimichi were "from the kind of Poles", that is, Western Slavs."

                        Where did you get this? Where did the Vyatichi and Rodimychi live, remember? They live there. And since when did the Poles become "Western Slavs? Who do you think the LUTICHI were then? "Ultro-Western"?
                        According to the rules of political geography, Poland belongs to Eastern Europe, Germany - to Central Europe, France, Italy, Spain - to Western Europe. And if the Polabian Slavs, Prussians, Bodrichi, etc., belong to central Europe ... although, indeed, historians and ethnographers of the 19th century called them Western Slavs. But they did this without taking into account the habitat of the LUTICH, and I did not mention them for nothing. Did you find the modern city of Lutentia? I see that it is not. And this is Paris. In the 19th century, it was believed that the Lutichi lived "several traps of the Bodrich / Encouraged". But their range was initially much more extensive.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Vyatichi is a distorted name of Vened (s)

                        This is not a correct interpretation. Although in Europe GENERALLY all Slavs were called Wends. In the Scandinavian and Baltic countries, even today, Russians are called veneto / veneti. Habit is second nature. Veneti is a generalized name for the Slavs of Europe. The name "SLAVES" appeared after the end of a series of Alan-Gothic wars, when the combined forces of the Scythian-Sarmatian clans (the former generalized name for the Slavs of Eastern Europe) defeated the troops of the Gothic conquerors led by Prince Slaven. In honor of their leader and victorious king, they have been called since those times. It was in the 5th century. His descendant Merovei Vendelik completed the defeat of the Goths throughout Europe and gave rise to the Merovingian dynasty for all (then) princely houses of Europe (he seated his children and relatives). His son - Clovis the Great founded the state of the Franks and adopted Christianity. The capital city of the Frankish state was the city of Reims.
                        Revenge and a coup d'état in France was carried out by the Goths in collusion with the popes under the majordomo (the manager of the palace or the key keeper) Pepin short. Under him, the capital was moved from Reims to Lutentia, which later / then became Paris.
                        And what does Klyuchevsky write about this?
                        And how stupid your lacho-centrism looks at the same time ... lol ... the Vyatichi went from him from the Poles ... The Poles were one of the Venedian clans (which they submitted to the Goths several times and betrayed in their favor) in the vast Merovingian Empire.
                        But the semantic meaning of the terms "commonwealth" and "Vyatichi" are close.
                        Quote: RUR
                        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вятичи#Этимология

                        Use something more serious.
                        Now actually about BLOOD - read GENETICS.
                        And if you look at the DNA map of the Polish society, and compare it with the map ... of the "Ukrainian area" or the area of ​​​​Russia to the Urals, you will see that the composition of the dominant DNA haplogroups in these maps is almost identical. And the so-called "wonder-Ugric-Finnish" haplogroup among the dancers is no less. By the way, Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians and Finns are just the bright and unambiguous representatives of the Finno-Ugric group. And in your society there are no less carriers of this than among Russians, including the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbtoday's "Ukraine". You can "squeeze Hugo Finn out of yourself" as much as you like lol , but you belong to this group, as it were, no more than Russians.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Will be repolonized over time, of course...

                        Read the history of the conquest of the Baltic Slavs by the Goths (in the 19th century they were collectively called "Western Slavs") - Bodrich, Polabsky, Lusatians, Prussians, etc., and about the role of Poland in their defeat. Having betrayed the faith of their ancestors, they accepted the Catholic heresy and let the army of conquerors pass through their lands to the rear of their brothers and allies. Apparently it was then that you took upon yourself the "Seal of Cain and Judas" from Roman heretics and Gothic barbarians. Read this story at least in Aksakov's book (unfinished by the way) "All-Slavism". He devoted most of his life to working in the German archives and described this story very vividly. Maybe then you will understand the attitude of your Slavic neighbors towards you since then, why they called you "snakes" ... including for the hissing pronunciation / sound of your dialect. This is exactly the shame with which the history of your state began ... as a state. For before you were part of a single union of Slavic clans. This is your birth trauma and the main "life credo" since those times. the seal of Cain and Judas.
                      8. RUR
                        RUR 4 December 2022 16: 54
                        -1

                        if (judging by your reasoning) both the USSR and the Russian Empire exist to this day. After all, no one dissolved them, did not abolish them,


                        Collapse of the USSR - Wikipediahttps://ru.wikipedia.org › wiki › Collapse_of the USSR

                        On December 25, 1991, Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev resigned, and the next day, December 26, 1991, the Council of the Republics of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR adopted a declaration on the demise of the USSR. .



                        https://pravo.ru/news/view/121388/

                        In our opinion, there are no serious arguments in favor of the fact that the Russian Federation is the de jure legal successor of the Russian Empire.


                        You don't even know your history...
                      9. bayard
                        bayard 5 December 2022 06: 01
                        0
                        Quote: RUR
                        You don't even know your history...

                        It is you who do not understand the legal nullity of these "acts". Not only was there no shadow of the observance of the Constitution and the sequence of procedures, these traitors stepped over the Referendum, in which all citizens of the USSR voted by an overwhelming majority for the preservation of the Soviet Union.
                        Quote: RUR

                        In our opinion, there are no serious arguments in favor of the fact that the Russian Federation is the de jure legal successor of the Russian Empire.

                        lol And that is why the Yeltsin Russian Federation under Putin paid the ALL external debt of the Russian Empire?
                        And these criminals knew that they were committing forgery and high treason, they knew what awaited them. That is why no "act of Belovezhskaya Pushcha" has been preserved, which they allegedly signed.
                        So legally the USSR still exists today.
                        As there is also the continuity of the law of modern Russia from the USSR and the Republic of Ingushetia. Try to challenge it in court and you are guaranteed to lose.
                      10. RUR
                        RUR 5 December 2022 21: 23
                        0
                        You write nonsense, as always - you see, there are numerous acts of various
                        states that were formed after the collapse of the USSR / RI, about their withdrawal or sovereignty, so do not strain ...

                        Vyatichi went from him from the Poles ..
                        learn to read in Russian for a start - there
                        it is clearly written that it says so the tale of bygone years :
                        "According to The Tale of Bygone Years, the Vyatichi and Radimichi were "from the kind of Poles", that is, Western Slavs."


                        AND WHAT IS THE patrimony of the Mordovian / Chud Muscovites in Poland? Even if this were the case, then you, as a people, are the descendants of serfs, with a small interspersed with townspeople (80-90% before the revolution in the Republic of Ingushetia were peasants), and you destroyed your nobles or drove them abroad ... well, not yours these are themes...
                        And how to discuss with you if you are simply uneducated?

                        "Aksakov's "All-Slavism"." - Tatar Aksakov will tell you about the Slavs, but not to us
                      11. bayard
                        bayard 6 December 2022 04: 04
                        0
                        Quote: RUR
                        tale of bygone years:

                        Why are you giving me this fake? Moreover, the POLISH sho "list". lol Your fake has long been debunked. My sources are much more reliable, cross.
                        Quote: RUR
                        AND WHAT IS THE patrimony of the Mordovian / Chud Muscovites in Poland?

                        Have you not read your Bibik? lol
                        Or tell you where the Poles came from? And why do you have "Polonia" (namely, that's how your self-name sounded)?
                        Or did you somehow degenerate from a test tube in a special way? In your opinion?
                        From ALAN - the generalized name of the future Slavs of the Scythian-Sarmatian group. From which your clan stood out - one of many after the second cycle of the Alano-Gotha war. The basis of the population of Poland was made up of local Kimry and Borus, the nobility - ALAN warriors from the army of Bus, and then Merovei, who came from OUR - southern Russian steppes to liberate their blood brothers. From the Goths of Germanareha. Who died after ten years of torment from a wound somewhere in the vicinity of the small town of Kyiv at the end of the first cycle of wars.
                        The ancestors of your (if you are a Pole) nobility ended up on the territory of today's Poland after the end of the second cycle of wars, and were one of the many detachments of the Alano-Rus army (the more ancient name of the Alans, Scythians, Sarmatians - by the name of a common ancestor). And they became rear garrisons.
                        Even your historians claimed that the Poles descended from the Sarmatians, which is why they say such a good cavalry. Which is the truth.
                        The question is where did they come from. wink
                        Do not remember where the Sarmatians were found?
                        Quote: RUR
                        "Aksakov's "All-Slavism"." - Tatar Aksakov will tell you about the Slavs, but not to us

                        What do you, the descendants of the Sarmatians (although it is you, I think not one of them) have against the Tatars? And what do you know about them, besides your fairy tales? This is not about Cheremis (Kazan) ... let's take at least the Crimean ones (genealogy, where there are no fables, but science - genetics).
                        The same Scythian-Sarmatian group.
                        Turkish language?
                        It was the language of the Army of the Great Empire, they partly preserved. Our Empire was not even two, but trilingual. For it was very large - most of the Eurasian continent. The main and most used language (older clans) was spoken in RUSSIAN. You and your fellow tribesmen also speak it, although you hiss with your dialect like snakes ... but this is your "birth trauma" after falling away from unity. After betraying the Goths, accepting the Catholic heresy and gaining the soul of Hyena (which you don’t mind).
                        The word "Tatar" is not an ethnonym. This word means - WARRIOR (thief - cut in Turkic). And the army spoke and commands were given in Turkic (one of OUR languages ​​is military).
                        Having broken away from unity and mired in heresies, you have lost the memory of your ancestors. Great Memory. The memory of how the Great Army, assembled at the call of Bus to help the brothers from the Volga, Don and Siberia (!), Trampled a bunch of Satanists ready in heavy battles, liberated Europe - ALL. And for several centuries afterwards there was peace and order under the hand of the Merovingians.
                        By the way, the horsemen at arms from Siberia - the Franks, founded their state in Western Europe, transferred part of their Siberian toponymy there ... And yes, they spoke Russian. All the nobility and the military class. yes Up to the coup of Pepin Kortky (a dwarf who called his son Karl (shorty) ... though he grew up to be of ordinary height) and the cleansing of the "old nobility". Pipin relied with his coup on the Goths (for he himself was one of them) from Spain ... that's why Latin gibberish has been imposed in France since then.
                        The concept of "Slavism" is much narrower than the concept of Rus' / Russian. And much younger. Slavs as a self-name appeared in the 5th century. The Russian language and ethnonym are thousands of years old and have an area throughout Eurasia and even wider.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Mordovian / Chud Muscovites

                        Young man lol have you heard about a miracle in your worthless life ... except for Bibik? laughing
                        They are legendary people. smile Which is DISAPPEARED. yes Leaving no descendants. There are no people on our land who would call Chud their ancestors.
                        Have you not heard?
                        And why did the Mordovians not please? belay
                        Why don't you like Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Finns ... Hungarians, in the end ?? All of them came from Siberia, relatives of our Khanty and Mansei ... during that same "Great Migration of Peoples", or more simply - during the Alan-Gothic wars. But these did not come as warriors, but in a wagon train - the logistics of the Great Army. And then settled where they were allowed.
                        Except the Hungarians. Those came later, their story is known (but obviously not to you), they came as the Army of Mode (their leader) - Mode was fiercely cruel, he led a large army west from Southern Siberia. Therefore, the Hungarians, at least to a fair extent, are Finno-Ugric by blood, but the Turks in essence and status.

                        And in general, in those Middle Ages, Europe was the most lame and dirty corner of Eurasia. Not prestigious. besides, defiled by the Goths, who had stuck there through the north of Africa, Algeria and Spain.

                        The Goths are satanists of Turkic origin , expelled ... EXPRESSED from their midst as perverts and satanists . About his "Turkic Motherland - behind the Ural Range, in the center of Asia (Asia)" one-eyed Odin told his young pupils - the only Goth warrior left alive after their destruction in Europe (except Spain) near the coast of the Baltic Sea. He was exiled with a group of young children from their military camp to a lonely island in this sea (the Goths were very afraid of water). And there he, being their only mentor, told different stories, which were later recorded in "Junior Ed". Read.
                        Quote: RUR
                        descendants of serfs

                        smile "Blessed memory, my ancestor Genghis Khan
                        Rubaka, mischievous with a yard-long mustache.
                        On a Udar horse like a whirlwind before thunders
                        In a shiny shell, he entered the enemy camp ... "
                        So D.I. Davydov wrote about his ancestor.
                      12. RUR
                        RUR 6 December 2022 12: 36
                        0
                        Young man lol have you heard about a miracle in your worthless life ... except for Bibik?


                        Who is Bibik? I do not know your terminology, tell me. You have everything - fake and annals and acts on the dissolution of the USSR, etc., etc., but if the USSR is legal, then:
                        . In the same period of time, on March 3, 1918, a separate peace treaty was concluded between Soviet Russia and the Central European powers, according to which the Polish lands that previously belonged to Russia were withdrawn from its sovereignty, and on August 29 of the same year, the Council of People's Commissars of the RSFSR annulled the treaties of the Russian Empire about the division of Poland,


                        Those. you have NO rights on the territory of the Commonwealth, this is in addition to the fact that
                        that the Republic of Poland already existed and exists legally and without the annulment of the RSFSR Council of People's Commissars of the treaties of the Russian Empire on the division of Poland, about Chud - read a lecture 11-12 of Klyuchevsky - or declare him a fake too ..? you just made it up - the peasants have estates and, moreover, in Poland .., which, however, was part of the UNII, i.e. Until 1863, before the Polish Uprising, the Republic of Ingushetia was a union of equal states, Muscovy suppressed the uprising, but in return received the collapse of a false Empire ...
                      13. bayard
                        bayard 6 December 2022 14: 06
                        0
                        Quote: RUR
                        Who is Bibik?

                        You should know better, he wrote about the digging of the Black Sea for grants.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Everything you have is fake and annals

                        Depends on what . I'm looking at different sources. And the history of PVM is known, it was brought to the territory of Russia from Poland on the list. There are no other sources of it. And this "list" is corrected, with additions and deletions. I have more serious sources, from an earlier period, with mixing and cross-checking. History in general is "Politics overturned into the past" and is always written to please the ruling group.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Those. you have NO rights on the territory of the Commonwealth

                        We have no interest in it, but if the need happens, we will justify it. If there is no threat from your side, there will be no such need.
                        Quote: RUR
                        RP already existed and exists legally and without the annulment of the RSFSR Council of People's Commissars

                        smile So in our country the USSR both existed (legally), and still exists. Suffice it to say that on New Year's Eve the guys got drunk and ... joked. Without leaving any document in the archives. And it will be more than legal.
                        Quote: RUR
                        about chud - read a lecture 11-12 Klyuchevsky

                        And how can a lecturer of the late 19th century help me with this? smile Do you think he knew more about the subject than our contemporaries? After all the archaeological research and the work of the darkness of institutes and scientific groups? Don't make me laugh with your references to the Bible. Or will you sew it up too? lol
                        Historians of the 19th century wrote history ... fabulous, often inventing or developing parables and rumors themselves. Many of their eccentricities have long been debunked.
                        And I repeat - stop making faces at the Finnish and Ugric tribes and peoples, their blood in your Poland, as it were, is no more than in Vologda or Tver.
                        feel It was you who interfered with the Lithuanians with the gentry?
                        You. yes
                        And they hung out with the Goths more. and their blood is defiled, because of this, perversions flourish in Europe, but they are so tricky ... lol How are you with rainbow flags? She's such a bad blood.
                        Quote: RUR
                        ish invented - the peasants have estates

                        Are you from the nobility or something?
                        The status of your gentry is not very high in all the tables of ranks, even the princes from the second category were ... I'm not talking about elected ones.
                        And in our country, even ordinary nobles are often not just royal, but imperial blood. I gave you an example - the origin of the family of Denis Ivanovich Davydov. From Genghisides. And this is one rank with the Merovingians. And your princes are not even from the Slaven (Young) clan, who was dubbed Attila in Europe. Your princes are from his boyars ... But you also lost them by your own will. And then the general elections went. lol
                        So how did your peasants surpass ours there?
                        My childhood, for example, was spent with my grandfather (all holidays of an early age) in the ancestral village of the Khanzhins - hereditary atamans of the All-Great Army of the Urals and Semirechensk, direct descendants of Genghis Khan, from his son Khanzhin (in translation - the Hand of the Tsar).
                        So why are your peasants "puffing" there?
                        Quote: RUR
                        until 1863, before the Polish Uprising, it was a union of equal states

                        Well, yes, you still tell the Lithuanians, especially how their Jagiello married your Jadwiga. And how did it end for the Lithuanians. I have heard about this from Lithuanians more than once ... with EXPRESSIONS ... and idiomatic phrases.
                        After your betrayal and betrayal of the Prussian clans, the Polabian and Lusatian Slavs, the Bodrichi ... in favor of the despicable and desecrated Goths ... You have no rights. Live with this, and get out of your limits, there are arguments and arguments for you. Fresh, so as not to delve into history.
                      14. RUR
                        RUR 6 December 2022 16: 05
                        0
                        I have more serious sources, from an earlier period, with mixing and cross-checking.

                        Well, yes, yes, yes!!! Of course, you know little, judging by what you have written here, including this: The Tale of Bygone Years is the earliest chronicle that has come down to the present day. Dating back to the beginning of the XNUMXth century

                        And how can a lecturer of the late 19th century help me with this?

                        Well, read more Dahl, his dictionary is still being released and Klyuchevsky, by the way, is still being printed, he also writes about a miracle that learns Slavic languages
                        Who will you be yourself? With such "Genghisid" self-conceit - is Genghis Khan himself or what?
                        their blood in your Poland, as it were, no more than in Vologda or Tver.
                        this is where else, do you think Poland is somewhere near MOSCOW, or what?

                        So how did your peasants surpass ours there?
                        at least they were not traded - they simply were not the property of the feudal lords, although the right to transfer was very limited, i.e. slavery in Poland and ON was not like you. By the way, I'm not from Ukraine.

                        And in our country, even ordinary nobles are often not just royal, but imperial blood.
                        what about your nobles? - your tsar punished them as serfs - they were severely beaten, executed, tortured - this was canceled somewhere in 1730-1740 - I don’t remember exactly - a hundred years before the abolition of serfdom ... so you have nobles, but there is no aristocracy - it’s not given, you are Genghisides, in Poland you couldn’t even detain a gentry - you didn’t have the right, and there was a noble court.
                      15. RUR
                        RUR 6 December 2022 16: 22
                        0
                        what about your nobles? - your tsar punished them as serfs - they were severely beaten, executed, tortured - this was canceled somewhere in 1730-1740 - I don’t remember exactly - a hundred years before the abolition of serfdom ... so you have nobles, but there is no aristocracy - it’s not given, you are Genghisides, in Poland you couldn’t even detain a gentry - you didn’t have the right, and there was a noble court.


                        that is why the Poles seem to the Russians arrogant and too proud ... a civilizational difference, I think, however, the landlords in Russia also seemed too proud to the serfs in Russia ...
                      16. bayard
                        bayard 6 December 2022 19: 54
                        0
                        Quote: RUR
                        Well, yes, yes, yes!!! You don't know much, of course.

                        smile lol
                        Quote: RUR
                        "The Tale of Bygone Years" is the earliest of the chronicles that have come down to the present day. Dating back to the beginning of the XNUMXth century

                        Which 12th century?? There is no such chronicle, and nowhere (!) Has it been preserved. smile And what is and is presented as such is a late fake, "Rodzivilovski (!) List". lol Moreover, studies of this list showed that in many places the text was cleaned up and something else was written, moreover, in several places several pages were missing. Therefore, the conclusion is that this book is a late craft, and even in it part of the text is blacked out and replaced, and part is simply withdrawn (lack of sheets). "Found" in Poland smile , donated by the so-called. "Peter-1" (which is no longer ours), and he brought it from his "embassy" and ordered - "here is your story" ... And he began to collect and ... destroy old books on monasteries and princely archives.
                        So there is no faith in this craft, although the events that were in reality are partially described there, but this is a fake, where the story has no true beginning (prehistory), but only since the arrival of Rurik. And I'm not particularly interested in it, except that I could read it as a child. So far I have not worked with real sources.
                        And the real story is grander and more beautiful.
                        But the main thing is that all sources, from different peoples, converge in the events described. This is called cross-source comparison. When one complements the other, while confirming the entire main outline.
                        For starters and understanding, it is useful to read the "Bayan Hymn" - a hymn composed and performed by Bayan - the son of Bus and his stirrups, at the feast of the fallen soldiers after the victory in the first phase of the Alano-Gothic war. This anthem was part of the library of Princess Anna - the daughter of Yaroslav, as a dowry when she was married to the King of France.
                        Haven't met?
                        The first lines "Glorious to the Old and Young - to the prince dead and alive ..." - there are two different princes. Old Slaven - one of the patriarchs of the Russian clans, Slaven Mladoy (aka Atilla among the Europeans ... why did they call him that?) - Grand Duke, leader of the united army of all clans, gathered even from Siberia, for the war with those who captured Borus (modern Germany and Poland to Belarus) and Ruskalan (Ruska Lan - Russian Land - the territory of modern Ukraine, Crimea, Kuban, North Caucasus up to the Don).
                        Have you seen the banner of the Don and Kuban Cossacks? On it is a deer with an arrow in its side. This is in memory of that war - the first phase, and that happy occasion when a deer wounded while hunting indicated a place where it was possible to ford (and where in some places and swim with a horse) to cross from the Kuban to the Crimea. Thanks to this, the Alans (the then generalized name of the allied troops) struck the Goths in an unexpected place - on the Don, where they were waiting with the army, and bypassing through the Crimea and from there to the rear. And a complete defeat with the flight of their remnants beyond the Danube (the end of the first phase) and the death of the Old (at the age of 110) Germanarekh somewhere in the vicinity of Kyiv, where, unexpectedly for the Alans, the local Kimry (Slavic clan, but traitors, as later you have become too). Since then, such a ... fairy-tale character has appeared, like "Swamp Kikimors", for indeed their city stood on the Goat Swamp, where they now have "Maidan Nezalezhnosti". Thus ended the first phase of the war, a truce was concluded. But it didn't turn out to be long. The Goths violated the truce and were again swiftly defeated already beyond the Danube, where the technique was repeated - the designation of the main attack in one place and the rapid crossing much to the south with a strike on the rear ... The second phase ended with the liberation of all Borussia (in the first, Ruska Lan was liberated).
                        For special information - the army of Slaven the Younger was going to the Volga. And the word "Sarmatians" means - "having a Tsar" - Slavena at that time.
                        Here at the feast after the victory, Bayan sang his hymn - the son of Bus, his (Bus) ambassador to Slaven and all the Trans-Volga (and Siberian) families. It was Bayan who gathered an army for Slavena, being the son of the famous prince killed by the Goths.
                        There was also a lyrical part of this story, and yes - the son of Bus, Bayan was named - he was the groom of his daughter, who was stolen by Germanareh (then a deep old man) in order to take her for himself and thereby legitimize his right to the occupied lands. Having received a refusal from her, he put her ... in the tower from which she fled, unsuccessfully, and as punishment, he (Germanareh) ordered her to be tied to two wild horses and whipped into the field ... the horses tore her apart. When they found out about this in Ruskalani, an uprising arose, a war began, and even before it (the war), the brothers of the executed princess, the sons of Bus, began, made their way into the camp of the Goths and entered into battle with the bodyguards of Germanarekh. One of the brothers made his way to him and wounded him in the side with a sword, but all the brothers died. And the failed son-in-law of Busa became his named son, and later was sent across the Volga to call on kindred clans for help, because the forces were not equal.
                        That's who Bayan was.
                        And that's whose name all today's Slavs bear (the name of Prince Slaven the Young - the winner is ready, the liberator of all Russian clans (Fight - Forest Rus', stretched to France) from the Satanists is ready.
                        One of these clans was the clan of the future Poles - one of many. and since it was an Alano-Sarmatian family, and he came with the army of Slaven from the Volga ... should we continue?
                        So the DNA map of masculine Poles is absolutely no different from the map of Russian men. It's genetics, not mentality. The same composition of haplogroups and approximately in the same proportions. In some regions, there are slightly more Fino-Ugric haplogroups, but ... these haplogroups are found in approximately the same proportions among other large Slavic peoples. The composition of the Balkan Slavs is somewhat different, but of course it is Slavic, only there a much larger percentage is occupied by those haplogroups whose carriers were almost completely destroyed by the Goths during the conquest of Europe. They survived in the Balkans. Especially among Serbs and Croats - this haplogroup simply dominates there.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Who will you be yourself?

                        You didn't introduce yourself to me either. And if not from Ukraine, then where does such a command of the language come from?
                        Quote: RUR
                        Chud, assimilating the Slavic languages

                        This is nonsense . Which of these literate people heard the sound of the Chudi language? Where did they get it from? The Finnish and Ugric peoples really assimilated. So they have always historically lived next to us, and served in our troops, and made their contribution to the composition of the Turkic estate (then there was no ethnic group, and there is no such ethnic group, now there is a Turkic language group, and the peoples are different).
                        But the Chud people definitely existed, but today there is not a single ethnic group that would call them their ancestor. It is known that this people was northern - Hyperborean, tall, fair-haired and very bright eyes (gray and blue). And it was more culturally developed than its neighbors.
                        Quote: RUR
                        So how did your peasants surpass ours there?
                        at least they weren't traded

                        Lies - throughout Europe, serfs were traded, until the time. And the fake Peter-1 brought serfdom to Russia - as a European fashion, and so that the people would not run away from his amazing rule at all.
                        And who were the so-called. "Romanovs"?
                        Gotami. request
                        Moreover, they themselves documented this by genetic analysis ... and their name is speaking - Holstein Goth (!) Thorp.
                        R1B. yes - they themselves boasted for several years, they say Nikola-2 has blood like that of "Egyptian pharaohs".
                        Before their arrival, we did not have any serfdom in sight. GENERALLY .
                        But in Europe it was.

                        Quote: RUR
                        what about your nobles?

                        Military service class.
                        Quote: RUR
                        your king punished them like serfs - they were severely beaten, executed, tortured

                        Have you read heresy again?
                        And if anything happened under the "Romanovs", then they are not ours. And in Germany, they were flogged in the army much worse.
                        Quote: RUR
                        it was canceled somewhere in 1730-1740 - I don't remember exactly

                        This is again a fable, by the way, they flogged you too. This is even reflected in your literature.
                      17. bayard
                        bayard 6 December 2022 20: 19
                        0
                        Quote: RUR
                        so you have nobles but no aristocracy

                        Young man . Do you even understand what you are trying to talk about? Do you even understand the meaning (not to mention the etymology) of these words?
                        An aristocrat is a descendant of the ROYAL FAMILY - a prince or boyar.
                        A nobleman is a service class at the royal court, the court of his prince, later "boyar children" were also assigned to them. professional hereditary warriors who received allotment of land for feeding with the right to attract tenants (peasants / free tillers) to it. And the peasants were enslaved to the land and its owner already under Holstein-Goth (!) Torp.
                        Your gentry had more show-offs, especially when they began to choose kings for themselves regularly. Yes, the climate is milder.
                        Quote: RUR
                        and the court of the nobility was.

                        And we had a similar court. And even in the Soviet Army there was a Court of Officers' Honor. Only we have the Law over everything. And you have permissiveness. Which finished your "commonwealth" .
                        Quote: RUR
                        that is why the Poles seem to the Russians arrogant and too proud ... a civilizational difference,

                        lol What civilizational?
                        MENTAL.
                        And these things are different.
                        It's like in modern Europe they consider it their right and almost an obligation lol bring homosexual to Qatar for the championship. And for you, this is the height of perfection and civilization.
                        But this is a DISEASE.
                        Quote: RUR
                        and to the serfs in Russia, the landowners seemed too proud ...

                        This disgrace in Russia was going on (fortunately) not for too long, and in the middle of the 19th century it was over.
                        In Europe, this disgustingness began much earlier, and lasted much longer. And they would not cancel it from you if it were not so economically unprofitable.
                        Your arrogance is like the arrogance of modern homosexuals in Europe and the USA, who imagine themselves to be an "exceptional caste". But their brains are so twisted that ... they, like you, really consider themselves "better", "higher", "more civilized" than the rest ... NORMAL PEOPLE with classical values ​​and foundations.
                        Think about it .
                      18. RUR
                        RUR 7 December 2022 10: 49
                        -1
                        And we had a similar court. And even in the Soviet Army there was a Court of Officers' Honor.


                        of course, you also had after 1739-40, they were introduced into imitation of Europe, before that your nobles were almost serfs for your Tsar Khan ...

                        "What civilization?" quote][
                        but you are Eurasia, Eurasians, you are already very different from Belarus and Ukraine with Asian influence - we look at Moscow: the Egyptian pyramid with a mummy, the Tatar Kremlin (the Slavic peoples do not have any kremlins, this word is etymologized from the Tatar language) and these onion domes, the architects say they are from India
                        And then, in Russia there is a strong Eurasian movement
                        An aristocrat is a descendant of the ROYAL FAMILY - a prince or boyar.

                        What kind of aristocrats are they, if they were beaten, flogged and tortured without trial, by the will of the king - they are just simple nobles
                      19. bayard
                        bayard 7 December 2022 13: 24
                        0
                        Quote: RUR
                        before that, your nobles are almost serfs for your king-khan ...

                        Moscow tsars were never called khans, although these words have the same meaning - butter oil.
                        Quote: RUR
                        but you are Eurasia, Eurasians,

                        Yes, this is how our Empire historically was. And if it's correct to say, then we are Aces. And our continent is Asia (what is now called Eurasia ... Europe took a lot of honor for itself).
                        Quote: RUR
                        you are already very different from Belarus and Ukraine

                        Enough flogging nonsense, we have residents of the north - Pomors, or residents of the Kuban, Siberia, are more different from the inhabitants of Moscow or Vologda than those from the Little Russians and Belarusians. The country is huge, climatic conditions and landscapes are different. And there are no "Ukrainians" - in principle, they did not exist until 1917, it was a purely political self-identification of a very small group of outcasts. Then, under the pressure of the Austrians (very short) and then the local Bolsheviks (crossed Petliurists), forcible Ukrainization and registration of Russians as "Ukrainians" began. And then, with the collapse of the USSR, nationalist pumping began through schools and the media. I studied this story from archival materials, even from the time of the late Republic of Ingushetia. So Ukrainianism is a disease. Mental. And a banal deception of the population.
                        Quote: RUR
                        look at Moscow: the Egyptian pyramid

                        What does Egypt have to do with it, if a completely different architectural object was taken as the basis. And it was built by the International Trotskyists. This is not Russian culture at all.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Tatar Kremlin

                        Quote: RUR
                        the Slavic peoples do not have any kremlins,

                        We have these Kremlins - in every old city.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Tatar Kremlin

                        lol The Italians will be surprised. laughing You look at the architecture - in Italy there are such towers, teeth of such a shape. At least look in Milan.
                        By the way, I had a familiar architect - an Albanian by nationality, he studied in Milan, in the early 90s he was engaged in the repair / reconstruction of the Kremlin. You would have told him about this ... but they didn’t let him reconstruct the Bolshoi Theater, although the Italians also built it ... Well, like the Moldovans and Tajiks today.
                        Quote: RUR
                        this word is etymologized from the Tatar language

                        And which one is etymologized from?
                        Where did Arabic writing come from? Such a tie?
                        Have you heard of Zoroastrianism? Actually, the adherents of Mazda-Jasnizm themselves called him. smile
                        but in Rome this faith was for a long time, almost all of Asia, all of white Africa and, of course, Europe.
                        Have you ever read the Avesta?
                        Very educational.
                        Christianity against this background is like a bad tracing paper with crooked borrowings. By the way, if the semantic meaning of the word "Avesta" is translated into Greek, do you know what happens? smile
                        That's right - GOSPEL. For Good News.
                        Only the followers of this doctrine, in principle, could not degenerate into what the world showed ... Catholicism ("the doctrine of executioners"), with their "churches" of human bones. With indulgences for any crime. with their doctrine of genocide.
                        Quote: RUR
                        and these onion domes, the architects say they are from India

                        They say that chickens are milked in the Vatican.
                        Certainly India has preserved more architectural heritage after the cataclysm. We only have something left in the European part. And almost nothing in Siberia, where there were the largest and most developed cities.
                        But the architecture was the same. And the antique style, and "oriental" - everything was used depending on the purpose and combined harmoniously.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Russia has a strong Eurasian movement

                        Well, there is such a thing, they philosophize.
                        Actually, Europe is a large peninsula of the continent Asia (Asia). All continents on our planet begin with "A".
                        And "Europe" is not even a pimple, but an abscess with perverts, from where the infection is all over the planet.
                        how does rear-wheel drive take root in you in Poland (?)? Are you comfortable? Like ?
                        Our ancestors fought against this unnatural satanic infection in previous centuries.
                        They fought together.
                        And now you are with rear-wheel drive against us.
                        Quote: RUR
                        What are these aristocrats if they were beaten

                        And the English kings were shoved in the ass with a red-hot poker. yes What they are incredibly proud of.
                        And you have gentry flogged, tied to a pole.
                        There is nonsense of a pervert ruler (and all Goths are perverts), there are cases of replacing the death penalty with corporal punishment for a crime, and there are idle tales of pervert writers.
                        It's embarrassing to take this seriously.
                        But who has shame.
                        And shame is a manifestation of Conscience.
                        "Conscience" - when the soul hears the good news from above, and feels remorse if it violates the highest law - the law of Harmony.
                        Quote: RUR
                        they are just simple nobles

                        Yours is simple. and the most ordinary ones.
                        By status, place and importance in the army of Slaven.
                        I repeat - your princes are from the second category. The rank with ours is not higher than the boyar one.
                        ARISTOCRATS - descendants of the Royal Family. Having the right to own / rule / manage provinces and military regions. We have princes, boyars. In European gradation - dukes, counts, barons.
                        Nobles - a service class that has privileges and lands, for service - military or state (civilian). Without service, a nobleman was deprived of privileges. Service is his responsibility.

                        And in your later "kingdom" there was a rabble obsessed with privileges and tyranny. Which is what killed you.
                        For God , wishing to reason with the wicked , deprives him of reason .
                      20. RUR
                        RUR 7 December 2022 16: 00
                        -1
                        "Oh, the Italians will be surprised. laughing Look at the architecture - in Italy there are such towers, teeth of such a shape." - baby, this is a late restructuring of the earlier Tatar Kremlin, there is in Kazan, Astrakhan (Astrakhan Khanate), but already in Novgorod there is no such name and this is understandable:
                        According to another point of view, the Proto-North East Slavic was formed during close linguistic contacts with the Proto-Lechit and Proto-Serbol Lusatian dialects[9][23], it is possible that the Old Novgorod dialect also had a non-East Slavic origin - it was initially more connected with the West Slavic than with the East Slavic language area[24] [25].

                        It is in Poland that there are several old cities: Stargard and Starogard, there is also a "German" Starogard (Oldenburg - just German renaming). Lechit settlers from Poland and the interfluve of the Odra-Laba (Oder Elba) named the new city - Novgorod, and in Russia there are no cities with a name like Stargard / Starygorod / Starogorod - no. IN SHORT, the Novgorod population, as well as the Venets (Vyatichi), will return to their native Lekhite element - they will be Polonized.

                        About the reliability of the story of temporary years: Petrukhin, Klein wiki:
                        Despite the unreliability of early dates and descriptions of events, The Tale of Bygone Years, subject to comparison with independent sources that allow verification of information, is one of the main sources on the history of Kievan Rus[6].
                        Scholars question many things in it (certain dates, details of messages), but its main outline is recognized as reliable[61].
                      21. bayard
                        bayard 7 December 2022 18: 02
                        0
                        Quote: RUR
                        baby

                        Feces hit the head?
                        Or rear-wheel drive arrogance went over the edge?
                        Quote: RUR
                        this is a late rebuilding of an earlier Tatar kremlin

                        fool I won’t even comment ... maybe the Chinese built Chinatown? laughing For those especially gifted with Wikipedia, the word "China" has nothing to do with the Chiny people.
                        Quote: RUR
                        is in Kazan, Astrakhan (Astrakhan Khanate)

                        request This is already beyond something sensible ... WHAT is the Kremlin in Kazan under the Tatars? There was a city wall made of oak logs. lol She was blown up during the assault. Both in Kazan and Astrakhan the Kremlin was built after the accession. By the way, the Astrakhan kingdom voluntarily became part of the Russian kingdom, and their army, together with their king, participated in the campaign of Ivan the Terrible against Kazan.
                        And you don't know anything about the Tatars either.
                        Maybe, in your opinion, the Polovtsy and the Pechenegs were some kind of Mongoloids? lol
                        Quote: RUR
                        but already in Novgorod

                        Chronicle Novgorod (Veliky) has nothing to do with the town that is now called that.
                        Quote: RUR
                        It is in Poland that there are several old cities: Stargard and Starogard

                        smile So what ?
                        Quote: RUR
                        and in Russia there are no cities with a name like Stargard / Starygorod / Starogorod - no.

                        laughing fool Yes, we have cities / towns with such names ... a lot. Only this is what? Or do you think people are laying a new city and calling it ... Old City ?? belay
                        Or after some cataclysm or a terrible war, settlers come to the ruins of an unknown city, they don’t know the name ... and without further ado they call it the Old City.
                        And those who founded a new city in a new place called it the New City. And sometimes people from a destroyed city built a city in a new place and gave it the name of their lost city.
                        How many cities in the US alone have the name ... Moscow?
                        SEVERAL .
                        You'd better go to Krakow, but go down to the "underground city" ... and who put it there - fell asleep underground? And that's how it is in many cities. And in Moscow, and in Vinnitsa, and even in New York. yes
                        And you tell me about some kind of "stargorods".
                        Quote: RUR
                        Odra-Laba (Oder Elbe)

                        And what was the name of the Neman river before?
                        Do you know?
                        Maybe I will surprise you, but this is the river Rus. And the births that lived on this river were called HOW?
                        Porus (as the Polabian Slavs were called by analogy). They are Prussians (the Goths already simplified their conquerors).
                        What was Leipzig's former name?
                        Lipetsk.
                        Brandenburg?
                        Branibor.
                        Why are Russian Deutsches called Germans? And only Russians call them that?
                        Yes, because - numb - who have forgotten their native speech under draconian pressure, is ready.
                        That is why the Russians call Chin China. yes
                        The Chinese themselves do not know such a name.
                        Why
                        Because China is our ancient province, and the Chini lived only in the very south. Now they live even north of the Chinese wall, and we still call this country by OUR name.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Novgorod population as well as Veneti (Vyatichi)

                        fool For those who are especially gifted with Wikipedia, I repeat: VENETI is a generalized name FOR ALL SLAVES among the peoples of the Baltic region and Scandinavia. Vyatichi is not at all from the word veneti, but from the word - vyatchy (deliberate, special, cool). Cool boys were Vyatichi. That is why the Moscow kingdom was created from a kind of provincial town. Vladimir Monomakh was also wary of them.
                        Quote: RUR
                        will be polonized.

                        Polonize your wife. lol
                        Where do you - the rootless victims of scurvy (that's why the hissing sound of your dialect) rush into such ambitions? Scatter ashes and your name will be forgotten.
                        Quote: RUR
                        About the reliability of the story of temporary years: Petrukhin, Klein wiki:

                        laughing lol Who-who??
                        Quote: RUR
                        Despite the unreliability of early dates and descriptions of events,

                        Quote: RUR
                        Scientists question a lot of things in it (certain dates, details of messages),

                        smile And-and-and?
                        Quote: RUR
                        but its main outline is recognized as reliable

                        What do I need the outline of your fake?
                        And where did this "ancient book" come from in Poland with smeared and torn out pages? wassat
                        Read it for yourself.
                        I devoted half my life to studying much more serious and reliable sources.
                      22. RUR
                        RUR 7 December 2022 20: 38
                        0
                        I devoted half my life to studying much more serious and reliable sources.


                        It's a folk story, isn't it? Well, in academic history, everything is OK with this chronicle, as can be seen from the quotes.

                        And, by the way, you wrote something about the Luzhichans, like, your Tatar Aksakal Aksakov, like, understands something about it, like, he accuses the Poles of attacking them, your Tatar history does not take into account that Poland was already then Christian, and the Slavs, who lived on the territory of present-day Germany, were pagans, and did not sit quietly and calmly at all, but loved to rob their neighbors - so I had to fight with them, and if it’s about the destruction of the Luzhans, they are now dissolving in the German environment - and it’s you, the USSR, they are to blame, the Luzhychians - the Czechoslovak group of Western Slavs - wanted to join Czechoslovakia, and the USSR, currying even before the defeated Germans after WWII, refused them, the Germans settled there, in their villages and towns, the former soldiers and Ssovtsy, then they found coal there, steel to relocate them to German settlements ... I remember that even they - the Luzhichans - came to your Tatar Luzhkov with a request to put pressure on the FRG, emphasizing that his surname almost coincides with their self-name - Luzhchane, but Tatars John Luzhkov replied: "Well, what are you! this is, of course, a pure coincidence ... "... You better read the Eurasian Dugin ... and his essay
                      23. bayard
                        bayard 7 December 2022 22: 54
                        0
                        Quote: RUR
                        Well, in academic history, everything is OK with this chronicle, as can be seen from the quotes.

                        What academics, such and quotes. Are you trying to get me through their "authority" or what? lol
                        Right, it's not serious.
                        Quote: RUR
                        like, your Tatar Aksakal Aksakov,

                        Aksakov, of course, is an "aksakal" (respected elder), only this person created the "Russian Society of Slavophiles" at the end of the 19th century - a scientific and political society for unity with the Western Slavs. He lived most of his life in Germany, was friends with German professors, worked in the archives of many German lands and cities. I got very interesting documents there, with statistical reports, descriptions by the Germans of their genocide of the Western Slavs. You should familiarize yourself with his work, and not grimace.
                        Quote: RUR
                        like accusing the Poles of attacking them,

                        In fact, your ancestors let a combined army of crusaders through their lands. And they counted on you as allies in the war against foreigners.
                        And you turned out to be traitors and gave them a stab in the back, where no one expected.
                        About the fact that they robbed someone there - the lie of the criminal on the victim. The German archives impassively testify against you.
                        Quote: RUR
                        your Tatar history

                        And what kind of twist is this?
                        The word "Tatar" - warrior. Do you mean military history? So write in Russian.
                        In those days when history was being written, there was no such nationality as the Tatars. And it happened that the time came for the Russian youth to serve in the military, he mounted a horse in equipment, and went to the Horde (Army). There he receives a military call sign (sounds like a Tatar name for a foreigner). He finished his service - home, to his family. They served in the Horde (Army)!
                        In European languages, this term Army \ Horde, sounds like - Order. And don't be surprised.
                        Later, the word "Tatars" was replaced by the word "Cossack" (border guard), because the Cossacks were engaged in border guards. And the regions of the Ord \\ Military Districts became the Regions of the Cossack Troops. And the Cossacks became an ESTATE.
                        Military class.
                        So the "Tatars" were not a people, but an ESTATE - a military one. yes And the people were Russians.
                        However, the service was accepted from other peoples. God grant memory, it seems that the Yakuts also Cossacks ... or the Chukchi ...
                        Hint to our Cossack that he is not Russian - he will tear it up.
                        And the Mughals were not any "Mongoloids". Their name translates as "Giants of the Earth".
                        MOG - mighty, mighty.
                        GOL - land, steppe.
                        And they were HIGH, POWERFUL, RUDE-HAIRED, FAIR-EYED (blue, green, gray, very rarely LIGHT brown) and BEARDED.
                        We look at the images of the Scythians on gold, silver vases, pectorals, combs, etc. - this is them. And this is us.
                        And once it was you. For from the Alano-Sarmatians, and these are the Scythians.
                        Everything is simple.
                        The Alans reached Spain.
                        And to England.
                        Who lived there before the desecration of England?
                        Who are the Angles?
                        This is KANGLY. (the first letter was eaten away during pronunciation)
                        Who are the Saxons?
                        These are SAKI-Scythians. (the word "sak" means - CUT ... "with a galloping saber at a gallop").
                        And who are these KANGLS?
                        Kangly is PECHENEGI. Also a Scythian clan that participated in the campaign of the Alans is not ready.
                        Who are the Scots?
                        lol And what do they call themselves?
                        CATS (emphasis on O) - also a Scythian clan.
                        Do Scots have plaid skirts - keels? smile
                        And where else are the burial places of people with such checkered keels?
                        In Northwest China!!! yes
                        It was from there that these Russian clans were going to the Great War with the perverted satanists, the Goths.
                        That's how far Mladoy Bayan went, gathering volunteers for the Holy War.
                        The Franks generally came from the Ob. smile
                        And since then in France there is a river ... Ob. yes
                        Quote: RUR
                        living in the territory of present-day Germany - pagans

                        And if you don't do gibberish?
                        If we communicate in modern Russian, then speak Russian.
                        What other pagans??
                        The word "language" meant THEN - THE PEOPLE.
                        So what kind of faith did they have?
                        Let's say it in Russian. yes Let's . Let's .
                        FOLK.
                        And this is even in your gibberish-catholic.
                        And what was the faith of the Slavs? Whom did they worship? No priest's tales. No.
                        In their ancestors! They were worshiped. They were praised.
                        They did not need the gods of ALIEN peoples, because they themselves were ... WHO?
                        God's children. yes So they called them - RA SEN.
                        Ra is a god.
                        Sen - son.
                        In other hymns they referred to themselves as GOD'S GROWTH.
                        And you from the children of God were baptized into SLAVES!
                        That is why POLONIA is a captive.
                        And the Germans - because they were dumb - forgot even their native language. Although they are Russian by blood.
                        Boruses, Poruses, Polabs, Lusatians, Bodrichis, Lyutichi.
                        IN WHAT LANGUAGE and in what script was the Reims Gospel written???
                        On which French kings (under the Merovingians - kings) took the oath at the coronation? smile
                        In Russian !
                        Moreover, the first two gospels (and there are only four of them) are written in Cyrillic, and the next two - in Glagolitic.
                        and the gospel has been kept in the Reims Cathedral since the time of Clovis the Great. bully
                        And then ALL the nobility of France spoke RUSSIAN.
                        And the latinized local peasants, not understanding their masters, called their speech "The Language of Birds" smile , and also - "The Language of Angels".
                        ... But they didn't know what language it was. request
                        And the French were very embarrassed later, when it suddenly became clear that this mysterious and wonderful language ... RUSSIAN. lol They even tried to come up with what they say the Gospel was brought by Queen Anna (daughter of Yaroslav the Wise) ... But the chronicles do not give a lie - the Gospel has been kept in the cathedral since the time of Clovis the Great (son or grandson of Merovei Vendelik - "Slav from Moravia" . Wend \ vendelik - Slav \ Rus, Merovia - that was the name of Moravia then.
                        And in Moravia, Slaven Mladoy made his Headquarters after the liberation of Transdanubia and Borussia.

                        So the native Russian-Slavs of Europe confessed the veneration of ancestors. And the Alans who came to their aid - Yasnu (Mazdo-Yasnizm) ... she is also Zoroastrianism, she is ... Mithraism.
                        The law was called - Yasna.
                        Both Genghis Khan and all the Great Mughals confessed - Yasna (not "Yasu" - as the Catholic sorcerers whispered).
                        Mzdo-Yasnizm - Clear Mind.
                        Ahura Mazda is the Lord of Reason.
                        All Aryan (pious\pure) peoples professed Yasna - the Law of Pure\Clear Mind.
                        Most of Asia (Eurasia) professed this doctrine, this Moral Law.
                        The gospel, the Sermon on the Mount, etc., which are alluring in Christianity, are taken precisely from Yasna. From the Avesta.
                        Yes, and the very name of the Avesta (Good News) was stolen, translated into Greek, perverted, provided with a pile of interpretations and allegories, and SOLD as a "religion of salvation."
                        Whoever read the original source will immediately distinguish what and what the falsifications have perverted. In Yasna there is not a single word , concept or teaching that can be misinterpreted . The priests, on the other hand, made themselves a sophisticated instrument of enslavement.
                        And they succeeded.
                        Including your ancestors.
                        And having renounced Yasna, your ancestors ceased to be ARYANS (pious \ pure) and fell into the clawed paws of the devils of the Vatican.
                        And at their instigation, THE BROTHERS were betrayed for genocide to Satanists, who made them even forget their native language!!!
                        I read instructions and circulars on the eradication of Russian speech from the circulation of enslaved Slavs.

                        Now the same thing is being done in "Ukraine".
                        And you , as always , are in the wings of the Satanists .
                      24. bayard
                        bayard 7 December 2022 22: 59
                        0
                        Quote: RUR
                        your Tatar Aksakal Aksakov

                        Aksakov - the name is not "Tatar" (although in the sense of "military", then everything is correct), but Scythian.
                        SAK - flog.
                        AKA - father.
                        FATHER OF THE SECHI - a glorious name for a nobleman and warrior.
                      25. RUR
                        RUR 7 December 2022 20: 50
                        0
                        VENETI - a generalized name for ALL SLAVES among the peoples
                        so the Germans called those Slavs with whom they neighbored, these are only western venets, the Moscow miracle (according to Dahl and Klyuchevsky) what does it have to do with this? Don't get attached...
                      26. bayard
                        bayard 8 December 2022 05: 59
                        0
                        Quote: RUR
                        so the Germans called those Slavs with whom they neighbored, Veneti

                        In Europe, all Slavs were called that at that time. So Slavs and Russians are still called in the Scandinavian countries, as we are Deutsche Germans.
                        Not "Western", but GENERALLY - Slavs and Russians.
                        The concept of RUSSIAN is much broader than the concept of "Slavs". The Slavs are a PART OF THE RUSSIAN, and not vice versa.
                        Rus' - light.
                        RUSSIAN - light.
                        "ETRUSKIANS", who called themselves RASENY (Ra sons) - were also Russians.
                        Hence the Russian "URA" - "With God".
                        Ural - "Destiny of God".
                        Rainbow - "God's arc".
                        Quote: RUR
                        Moscow Chud

                        In Moscow, only VYATICHI.
                        Quote: RUR
                        according to Dahl and Klyuchevsky

                        Enough to rave and walk around the rake in a circle.
                        And for the information of the victim of Wikipedia - the legendary people "Chud" significantly surpassed other peoples of Eurasia culturally, technically, civilizationally.
                        Especially barbarian (under the Goths) Europe.
                        And not a slave of the barbarians, ready to grimace at them. And there is no such people for a long time.
                        Or maybe it’s about “the whole”, remember, she is often commemorated along with the miracle. smile
                        All - nadod, taming and cultivating mammoths as pets. For "WEIGHT" is a MAMMUT. smile
                        Quote: RUR
                        according to Dahl and Klyuchevsky

                        Do not cling to the words of specially trained people of the 19th century.
                      27. RUR
                        RUR 7 December 2022 16: 15
                        -1

                        Yours is simple. and the most boring ones. By status, place and importance in the army of Slaven
                        - Yes, and your UNUSUAL!!! your disenfranchised nobles - until the middle of the 18th century - who have no rights before the king / eastern despot, perhaps aristocrats FOR YOU, but further west, in Europe they are not ... your nobleman is just a disenfranchised person at your court King, do you think that especially your "steppe, Turkic-Mongolian origin" aristocrats? For centuries they were nothing in front of the khans and there is no way to call them
                        Muscovite princes were also brought up under the khans of the Horde - even standing in front of the khans was supposed to be on all fours, pressing their forehead to the floor ... - your petitions come from there
                      28. bayard
                        bayard 7 December 2022 20: 35
                        0
                        Quote: RUR
                        For centuries they were nothing in front of the khans

                        Before what khans? Have you read Polish fairy tales?
                        So read at least a book by Marco Polo. She is with PICTURES - look at them carefully. And read. And look how the Mughal khans LOOKED. The color of their hair, appearance, clothes. Look at the portraits of Genghis Khan and his wife Berke - a stately fair-haired beauty. On their buildings ... CASTLES , descriptions of palaces , orders at the court . Marco lived at the court for more than a dozen years, was a confidant of the Great Khan in some matters. And don't talk Nonsense, she's already in pain.
                        On all fours , your Catholics squirm , they kiss the daddy 's shoe . lol TODAY!!!
                        Where do you go with rear-wheel drive to moralists and "civilizers" - one shame.
                        We have never had serfs or bows below the waist. Until ready (Holstein Goth (!) Thorp).
                        There was no slavery, except for prisoners of war. Yes, those, perhaps even those who worked off the debt.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Hordes

                        Do you even know the meaning of the word? lol
                        The Horde is an ARMY. yes
                        And territorially - the Military District, or as the Region of the Great Army of the Ural and Semirechensky \ Donskoy \ Grebensky \ Usuriysky.
                        Like this .
                        The empire was divided into military districts. Led by the governor of the royal family - from the descendants of Genghis Khan.
                        Do you know the name of Genghis Khan's father-in-law? smile
                        IVAN. yes Prester John. (Of course, one of the father-in-laws. According to Yasna (not Yassa, as the European barbarians write), it was possible to take several wives. And concubines. Everything according to the status. For the kind of glorious husbands must multiply (warrior, boyar, prince, king).
                        The son of Genghis - Khanzhin inherited two military districts - the Orda Ural and Semirechensk. And the word "Tatar" is just "warrior", "rubaka" from the word "thief" - to chop. Later they began to be called COSSACKS, and the military districts - hordes ... Regions of the All-Great Cossack Troops. So the whole "Kazakhstan" (in fact, Kazakhstan - Cossack Stan), this is only part of the All-Great Army of the Urals and Semirechensky.
                        We are all your gentry, like fleas on a dog.
                        Especially since the dog is rabid.
                        And Ivan the Terrible rightfully received power over Ulus Dzhuchiev. And in Kazan, and in Siberia, impostors-usurpers were then sitting, and the Astrakhan tsar himself came under his hand.
                        And the Crimean Tatars are ours. When they learned their genealogy and genetics, they walked for two weeks.
                        You fell away from our family a long time ago, got involved with rear-wheel drive ... And yes - Polonia (as your land was called) from the word FULL. From the "sons of God" to the slaves, they were crossed by heretics ... Ugh.
                        At least read your fellow tribesman Tadeusz Volansky and do not disgrace yourself. The clergy of the Vatican wanted to execute him for his books by a papal court ... The Russian Tsar saved him and did not give him up for reprisal.
                      29. RUR
                        RUR 7 December 2022 21: 34
                        0
                        So read at least a book by Marco Polo. She is with PICTURES -


                        Yes, yes, Marco’s book is being questioned, it’s not even worth comparing with the Tale of Bygone Years ...
                        He liked the pictures - don't be ridiculous ... Genghis Khan is blond ... hahaha - and the Mongols too, but Polo did not see him in the eyes ... Chnigiz died by that time (1227) ... nothing is known about his abilities to drawing - pictures were already drawn in Europe by local artists with imagination ... Biblical illustrations of that time also depict Jews of European appearance He liked the pictures ... holy simplicity, and peasants with estates seem to be ... and aristocrats deprived of all rights ...
                      30. bayard
                        bayard 8 December 2022 06: 20
                        0
                        Quote: RUR
                        Yes, yes, Marco’s book is being questioned, it’s not even worth comparing with the Tale of Bygone Years ...

                        Your "story" is a fake without any doubt.
                        And no one questioned Marco's book. It was simply banned from time to time for political reasons.
                        Quote: RUR
                        pictures were painted already in Europe by local artists with imagination

                        Not artists, but an artist who wrote the book itself under the dictation of the already blind Marco. He also has a comparative description of the inhabitants of those places, in comparison with German, French, Italian peasants, townspeople. Text description. There are engravings of that and a seriously late period.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Chnigiz had died by that time (1227)...

                        Marco lived at Kublai's court.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Biblical illustrations of that time also depict the Jews of the European

                        Have you seen the Jews of the times of Moses and John the Baptist? lol
                        Or do you think it was "thousands of years ago? lol
                        The final edition of the "Bible" was compiled only by the beginning of the 20th century. smile . And it was distributed in RI ... drum roll ... by the "English Bible Society". yes Look at the British, aren't these Jews of European appearance?
                      31. RUR
                        RUR 8 December 2022 12: 47
                        0
                        Marco lived at Kublai's court.
                        And you write about the fair-haired Genghis Khan, referring to Marco's pictures, if you don't remember

                        Have you seen the Jews of the times of Moses and John the Baptist

                        Biblical Jews are Semites, i.e. Afro-Asians, not much, presumably, differed outwardly from the Ethiopians, in contrast to European Jews, who have a slightly different origin

                        Enough to rave and walk around the rake in a circle.
                        Is that how you evaluate Dahl and Klyuchevsky? - If you think that you are some kind of scientific value, judging by your delirium, then it’s time for you to go to the hospital, if you don’t understand an elementary scientific text, then here’s a quote from Dahl:
                        Vladimir Dal: “Whatever you say, much more than half of our countrymen are Russified Chud,” he wrote. "
                      32. bayard
                        bayard 8 December 2022 18: 08
                        0
                        Quote: RUR
                        And you write about the fair-haired Genghis Khan,

                        There are images of Genghis Khan, there is a textual description of his appearance from many sources, as a classic Caucasian. Hair color, eye color, body type, beard. There are his descendants, I named one of them for you - D.I. Davydov and his poem to Count P.A. Stroganov. Read it, look at the portraits of Davydov. Look for portraits of General Khanzhin (he commanded the army at Kolchak) - also Genghisides.

                        Quote: RUR
                        marco pictures

                        His book contains images of Khubilai, his wives, there are descriptions of the appearance, clothing and life of the inhabitants of the Empire, their comparison with the inhabitants of German lands, France, Italy. Differences are small or identity.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Vladimir Dal: “Whatever you say, much more than half of our countrymen are Russified Chud,” he wrote. "

                        lol In this case, you must accept that the Poles are still the same "chud", because genetically there are no differences between Poles, Russians and "Ukrainians" - genetics is an exact science. Moreover, the Poles themselves come from the Trans-Volga region, from where almost the entire army of Slaven gathered.
                        So accept and reconcile, you are "CHUD", according to the teachings of Comrade Dahl. bully
                        And why did Dahl draw such conclusions?
                        exclusively from rumors and legends. that before a certain people lived on these lands, called "chud". According to the description, suitable in appearance and to the description of the Slavs, and the Germans, and the Scandinavians - all-haired, light-eyed, tall, strong build.
                        So you are a freak.
                        According to Dahl.
                        In the same sources that I have seen, in the descriptions of the events of the early Middle Ages, no miracle is present, perhaps they lived to the north, but they are not in the list of clans that participated in the Alan-Gothic wars.
                        In the same sources where the Chud was mentioned, the mention was usually paired - "Chud and all".
                        WEIGHT is a mammoth. Therefore, "all" is the people who domesticated this beast and used it widely. But no mammoths in the wars with the Goths, or at the court of Prince Vladimir, Yaroslav and Ivan the Terrible ... are mentioned.
                        Therefore, it is believed that the Chud and all peoples mentioned in some legends are legendary. And it is not known for sure about them and their fate.
                        but if you insist on interpreting Dahl, then congratulations, you are a freak.
                        And if you ever become Russified, you will become a Russified miracle. With which I congratulate you.
                        And I assure you, nothing special, among other clans, the Poles did not stand out and did not become famous.
                        In addition to well-known betrayals and meanness. And the "Hyena of Europe" was called not by the Russian people, and not by the Soviet leaders, but by W. Churchill and British journalists.
                        Quote: RUR
                        Biblical Jews are Semites, i.e. afro-asians,

                        Do you apparently think that some Ethiopians or Arabs lived in Egypt at that time? They appeared there much later. I advise you to look and carefully examine the preserved frescoes in the pyramid of Djoser (considered the most ancient pyramid in Egypt). Look at the color of the hair of the Egyptians on the frescoes. smile See also well-preserved mosaics found during excavations in Israel, Jordan, Syria.
                      33. RUR
                        RUR 7 December 2022 13: 27
                        0
                        Lies - throughout Europe, serfs were traded,


                        Write nonsense - not in all ..
                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Poland

                        Wagner writes: "The situation of the peasants in Poland was better than in most other countries. In France and Germany, for example, the owners of landed estates had unlimited jurisdiction over them, including the power to punish by death. In Russia, their economic oppression was notorious, and one of the reasons Catherine II gave for the partition of Poland was the fact that thousands of peasants escaped from Russia to Poland to seek a better fate."[11] Piotr Kimla noted that the Russian government spread international propaganda , mainly in France, which falsely exaggerated serfdom conditions in Poland, while ignoring worse conditions in Russia, as one of the justification for the partitions.[12]


                        those feudal lords in Poland did not have the right to kill a peasant with impunity, unlike France, Germany and Russia, the situation of peasants in Poland was better than in neighboring countries, including Russia and Germany, from where the peasantry often tried to escape to Poland,
                        the so-called slaves, comparable to Russian serfs,
                        (niewolni) - these are peasants, mainly prisoners of war of foreign origin, disappeared as a class before the 15th century ...
        2. Vladimir80
          Vladimir80 2 December 2022 11: 10
          +1
          Under no circumstances should the enemy be underestimated, but I see it more that the Poles are quite successfully fighting on the outskirts under the guise of all sorts of special units (mercenaries), this is the part of the population that exists in any country - war is a normal state for them, killing and shooting is a profession . On the other hand, neither in Europe, nor in the USA or Poland, the ordinary ordinary population does not want and is not ready to participate in the war that is going on on the outskirts. Those. I suppose they are ready to shout alarmist slogans, they are ready to train and dress the Okraintsy, but they are not ready to fight, knead dirt and die. Not the life now
          1. bayard
            bayard 2 December 2022 13: 05
            +4
            Quote: Vladimir80
            neither in the United States or Poland, the ordinary ordinary population does not want and is not ready to participate in the war that is going on on the outskirts.

            But who asked this population when ??
            Or did someone ask people in \ in Ukraine?
            Poland has already mobilized its army, created paramilitary formations, brought the defense to 100 bayonets, and spawned PMCs. What were they trying to do? Conduct a pioneer matinee? This is worth a lot of MONEY! Mobilization is what war is.
            The US wants to bring the Poles into conflict in order to prevent a quick defeat of the Armed Forces of Ukraine after the introduction of our reserves, which will increase the grouping by 2,5-3 times.
            Minus is not mine.
            1. Eule
              Eule 3 December 2022 11: 04
              0
              Quote: bayard
              brought the defense to 100 bayonets

              During the Second World War, Ukraine was liberated from the Germans by fronts numbering 2,5 million Red Army soldiers. I didn’t find how many fighters there were on the other side, but it’s probably comparable.
              On June 22, 1941, the number of the Wehrmacht was 4,6 million, for a two thousand km front. Ukrofront will be about a thousand kilometers, that is, we are also approaching the figure of 2,3 million.
              The main sign of the preparation of a world war will be the mobilization of "refugees" of Muslim origin in Europe. That's when they mobilize about three million - then worry.
              IMHO: 100 thousand Polish defense forces are needed to fight Ukrainian "refugees" in order to prevent mass crimes, violence and robberies, when masses of ukrov with machine guns run across the border "to seek shelter." These are the gangs to catch and kill - the Polish therodefense will be able to.
              1. bayard
                bayard 3 December 2022 12: 28
                -2
                Quote: eule
                During the Second World War, Ukraine was liberated from the Germans by fronts numbering 2,5 million Red Army soldiers

                This was dictated not only by the length of the fronts, but also by the size of the opposing groupings. At the beginning of autumn, the Armed Forces of Ukraine had 700-750 thousand in service, now, after heavy offensive battles throughout the autumn, less. Our grouping after the arrival of reinforcements will be approximately 500-550 thousand. That is, there is a numerical parity. And if we take into account that with about 200 troops on the fronts, today we are confidently holding the front, and in some places we are trying to attack, the entire grouping of fresh forces can be used to attack in any chosen direction. And this could turn the tide. But for the development of the expected success, the number of 500-550 thousand is still not enough, one more wave is needed, and preferably TWO waves of mobilization - in December and at the turn of February-March. Then, by the end of spring, we will have at least a million strong groupings for operations in Ukraine.
                In order to disrupt our winter offensive, to keep the military-political leadership of the Russian Federation, the topic of involving Poland in the conflict is being accelerated. In principle, such a military impulse could be stopped or compensated for by connecting the Armed Forces of the Republic of Belarus to the NVO. Moreover, the most promising direction of the offensive would be just from Belarus a cutting blow to cut off the supply routes of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from Europe. And then - to Kyiv. Everything else will wither away without supplies and will be taken under control in working order.
                Quote: eule
                100 thousand Polish territorial defense is needed to fight Ukrainian "refugees" in order to prevent mass crimes, violence and robberies, when masses of ukrov with machine guns run across the border "to seek shelter."

                And for this too. But initially - as the second echelon of the Polish Army during the capture of "eastern kresy" (regions of Western Ukraine).
                Quote: eule
                The main sign of the preparation of a world war will be the mobilization of "refugees" of Muslim origin in Europe.

                A French general spoke about this several years ago as a pan-European idea of ​​"naturalizing" Arabs and Negroes, with the provision of European citizenship to them after the war.
        3. Xnumx vis
          Xnumx vis 2 December 2022 20: 39
          +2
          Quote: bayard
          So the drums thundered in the Polish camp.
          Meanwhile, the ground began to freeze with frost, and soon the fields would become completely passable for vehicles.

          "O field, field, who are you

          littered with dead bones?

          Whose greyhound horse trampled you

          In the last hour of a bloody battle?

          Who fell on you with glory?

          Whose heaven heard the prayers?
          The eternal dispute of the Slavs .... Who can stand in an unequal dispute:
          Puffy Lyakh, il true Ross?
          Will Slavic streams merge in the Russian sea?
          Will it run dry? here is the question.

          Leave us: you have not read
          These bloody tablets;
          It’s incomprehensible to you, alien to you
          This is a family feud;
          The Kremlin and Prague are silent for you;
          Pointlessly seduces you
          Fights of desperate courage -
          And you hate us ...
        4. PC
          PC 5 December 2022 13: 05
          +1
          Perhaps I agree with you. A well thought out and well thought out analysis.
    3. iouris
      iouris 4 December 2022 00: 43
      0
      Quote: Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov
      you will also answer for Susanin ...

      Susanin is a mythical figure. Do you know that the heir to the Polish ruling dynasty, Vasa Korolevich, and then the King of Poland, Vladislav IV, was the Russian Tsar and from 1610 to 1634 enjoyed the title of Grand Duke of Moscow, in fact, the Russian Tsar?
      In the summer of 1610, the new Moscow government (Semiboyarshchina) elected Vladislav tsar at the Zemsky Sobor on the Sukharev field and began to mint gold and silver coins in Moscow and Novgorod on behalf of the tsar "Vladislav Zhigimontovich". On August 27 (September 6), 1610, as the Russian tsar, he took the oath of the Moscow government and the inhabitants of Moscow in absentia and received the royal regalia brought to him, with the exception of the crown.
  2. withoutreverse
    withoutreverse 2 December 2022 04: 32
    +6
    I would say with the words of the saying "the dog barks, but the caravan moves on"!!
  3. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 2 December 2022 05: 10
    +3
    The attacks of the Polish Minister of War in relation to St. Petersburg look, to put it mildly, rather strange. How does the "big city of St. Petersburg" threaten Poland and the Polish fleet?

    Nothing strange ... the appetite and ambitions of the Polish military have grown ... why bother with a blow to Kaliningrad ... it’s better to hit St. Petersburg right away.
    Such is the price of Poland's impunity... and the Kremlin's error with empty red lines.
    The enemy will grow bolder before our eyes.
  4. laws70
    laws70 2 December 2022 05: 13
    -7
    NATO or individual countries of the alliance (Poland, Romania) can theoretically intervene in a military conflict in Ukraine only in two cases - either if Ukraine begins to suffer a military defeat, or if Russia uses tactical nuclear weapons

    History has shown that in these cases they can only intervene on the side of Russia. For example, suddenly realizing that there is fascism in Ukraine.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 2 December 2022 05: 55
      +1
      the situation will be decided on the battlefield.
      "Everything for the front, everything for the Victory"!
  5. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 2 December 2022 05: 22
    -1
    Quote from: laws70
    History has shown that in these cases they can only intervene on the side of Russia.

    They cannot... the Russophobia virus that has penetrated deeply into the body of NATO will not allow a wise decision to be made.
    NATO's entire purpose is to advance and expand eastward.
    Although I admit that NATO members, having entered Ukraine under any pretext, can promise GDP anything and gain a foothold there forever after his goodwill ... how many times they deceived the ingenuous leadership of the Kremlin ... they will deceive them again.
    Pay attention to how the borders of NATO coincide with the borders of Hitler's Germany in 1941 ... a new campaign to the east will begin sooner or later.
    1. Klaus8691
      Klaus8691 2 December 2022 05: 26
      -2
      "Ah, it's not difficult to deceive me. I myself am glad to be deceived ..." Something like that.
    2. laws70
      laws70 2 December 2022 06: 21
      -4
      a new campaign to the east will begin sooner or later.

      NATO is not entirely idiots sitting. They clearly understand that after the massive F-35 border crossing, not only S-400s, but also Sarmatians will fly towards them. In any case, they should .. The question “what if they don’t fly” should not be seriously considered at this level.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 2 December 2022 06: 44
        +2
        And where did you get the idea that there will be massive F35 raids ... or maybe DRGs from mercenaries or unidentified drones will be used first ... or there will be an attempt at a color revolution and NATO peacekeeping troops will be brought in under it ... remember how NATO dealt with Yugoslavia .
        There are a lot of attack options.
  6. Nikolay Malyugin
    Nikolay Malyugin 2 December 2022 05: 33
    -3
    Vyacheslav hurried with the song "Khaki Ball". Now the time has come for this song. Many observers are already saying that this or that state lives according to the laws of war. I won’t be surprised if in expensive restaurants guests come in riding breeches and look askance at those who still walk in civil suits. This is the commercial logic of war. And then they will start destroying the property of foreign citizens. And this will be presented as the great meaning of the popular movement. So it was, and so it will be.
  7. Vladimir Mikhalev
    Vladimir Mikhalev 2 December 2022 05: 35
    -2
    Well, we have a conflict with them for a long time. But if we take the 20s, 30s, then it most likely smells like support for various movements that organize bases on Polish territory.
  8. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 2 December 2022 05: 45
    0
    Is Poland really going to fight against Russia?..or is Poland going to fight for the three western regions of a neighboring sub-state? Few specifics.
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 2 December 2022 07: 42
      +1
      rather, they are going to enter 3 regions and call it a war with the Russian Federation, which we won’t come to, but they will say that they won, because the Russian Federation got scared and didn’t go there .. though I don’t think I was going to, but these are already nuances ..
      1. Xnumx vis
        Xnumx vis 2 December 2022 20: 49
        0
        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
        rather, they are going to enter 3 regions and call it a war with the Russian Federation, which we will not come to, but they will say that they won

        Well, they entered western Ukraine. RF did not intervene. What's next ? How will they build relations with Westerners? Slap them? Or shower with gifts? What language will be the state , what faith . culture, Which of the ukrosvido will be allowed to go to the feeder? Everything that they can take away from the local svidoukrozhido-Bandera people. The Poles are greedy, swaggering. They love only themselves. Most likely they will replace the Cyrillic alphabet with the Latin alphabet. faith will be completely replaced by Catholicism, the language will be Polish everywhere .. And yes, Poles don’t like Jews either. Westerners do not particularly jump. Although ..? They will send them to the Russians - Putin is to blame for your grief! And again the war ..
        1. RUR
          RUR 2 December 2022 23: 47
          -3
          | "Well, they entered western Ukraine. The Russian Federation did not intervene. Next, what?" - Russia was unable to Russify Ukraine or keep it in its orbit, and, it seems, with the exception of the language, Belarus, too, after all, excluding Khmelnitsky's Ukraine, there was no voluntary annexation to Russia ... Probably, there will be a revival of the Commonwealth in some then, if it comes to the introduction of the Polish Army / war ...
  9. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 2 December 2022 05: 48
    -2
    Quote: Nikolay Malyugin
    then they will start destroying the property of foreign citizens.

    It's too early for that...when the people go berserk from deprivation and suffering, then this bacchanalia of the crowd will begin.
    Although the Ukrainian society can be seen as a peaceful and civilized life goes into oblivion.
  10. lubesky
    lubesky 2 December 2022 05: 49
    0
    The Poles will come in from the West only when the Kremlin hints to Washington about such an opportunity in exchange for something tactically (not strategically) important. The volitional decision by the Poles was made a long time ago, but it hasn't caught a tooth yet. I have no doubt that we can allow such a scenario, we have already seen enough of Abramovich's shadow over the Foreign Ministry. Another question - giving Poland the western outskirts, where again is the consistency and logic of the Supreme, accusing Lenin of creating problems for the future?

    However, I draw attention to an important fact - neither Romanians nor Poles are no longer afraid to enter into open contact with Russian troops under the nuclear roof of the states (as a guarantee NOT to use WMD by us). I would not refer to the bad memory of the Poles. Who allowed such a scenario, where the Poles and Romanians are no longer afraid of Russian bayonets?

    The strength of the Union was not in the 5.5 million army. His strength was in the realization of the UNREALITY of a military clash with the USSR
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 2 December 2022 07: 47
      0
      Quote: lubesky
      UNREALITY of a military clash with the USSR

      and unreality was based on 5,5 million armies with modern weapons, if we forget that they were part of the police department and were "for us", therefore, the conflict with us could not even be discussed ..
      1. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 3 December 2022 00: 23
        +3
        "Oh, how it was a long time ago, as if in an old silent movie ......." The Russian Federation is far from the USSR in any sphere, whether in the economic, in the social, or in the military. And never reach that level. And I’m even afraid to voice the result of the CBO - they will put me in jail.
  11. rocket757
    rocket757 2 December 2022 05: 50
    0
    Poland is going to war with Russia
    . The minke whales will push anyone whom they don’t feel sorry for to go to war with Russia ... and they don’t feel sorry for ANYONE !!!
    The Poles themselves ... there are all sorts of people there, ready at least this way, at least that way ... in general, like everywhere else.
    1. oleg-nekrasov-19
      oleg-nekrasov-19 2 December 2022 10: 05
      0
      The minke whales, of course, can push anyone to go to war with Russia, but the minke whales know that Russia has 6257 nuclear warheads. No matter how the minke whales play, yes, the Lyakh also understands this. The article generally says about the "theoretical" possibilities of starting a war with Poland or Romania, so theoretically India can start a war with Pakistan, etc.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 2 December 2022 10: 18
        +1
        Theoretically, it can be ... different.
        Really ... our journalist / columnist will ask ordinary Poles about the war ... the general conclusion, the prevailing mood: God forbid, fight with Russia !!!
        So guess, now, who they have there is such a greyhound and is ready not in words, but in deeds to show, to prove.
        1. oleg-nekrasov-19
          oleg-nekrasov-19 2 December 2022 10: 23
          -2
          Yes, there are greyhounds there, in words, and when it comes down to it, they don’t have time to pick up snot. I definitely know that the enemy will be defeated and the jackal howling about the "deplorable state" of the RF Armed Forces and some kind of Finnish-Swedish-Polish threats will be extremely depressed by the Victory of Russia.
  12. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 2 December 2022 05: 57
    -3
    Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
    Is Poland really going to fight against Russia?..or is Poland going to fight for the three western regions of a neighboring sub-state?

    This is how much she will be allowed and how much the Polish throat can swallow prey. smile
  13. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 2 December 2022 06: 55
    0
    ... then I'm already preparing for this, - said Ochepa.
    Have you collected an alarm case? For the Poles, the thread on the safety valve was completely torn off, so the Russophobic steam flooded under pressure and in all directions.
  14. carpenter
    carpenter 2 December 2022 07: 11
    -2
    Marcin Ocepa made rather ambiguous statements, some of which could be interpreted as NATO preparing for war with Russia.


    .War of Poland with Russia is a war with NATO. In any case, this will turn into a nuclear war. The territory of the European part will turn into a desert.
    1. Vladimir M
      Vladimir M 2 December 2022 09: 14
      +2
      Just the United States does not need a NATO war with Russia. Now, and so the whole business from Europe is slowly creeping into the United States. Poland and Britain need war.
      1. carpenter
        carpenter 3 December 2022 23: 34
        -1
        Quote: Vladimir M
        Poland and Britain need war.

        Need USA, Britain mother, Poland beloved wife.
  15. Vladimir M
    Vladimir M 2 December 2022 08: 18
    -2
    In principle, nothing prevents Poland from sending its troops to the territory of western Ukraine, since a law has been passed that equalizes the rights of Poles with the rights of Ukrainians. I wonder how we will respond to this and whether we will respond? By the way, the provocation with Ukrainian missiles (led by Britain) was from the same opera. It was planned to accuse Russia and send Polish troops to the territory of Ukraine. But then the United States intervened, it seems that the goals of Britain and the United States in Ukraine diverge a little.
  16. Igorash
    Igorash 2 December 2022 09: 59
    -3
    She has already entered, and Putin pretends not to ... More than 20 thousand of their military personnel are fighting on the side of Ukraine .... moreover, personnel ... well-trained ... What to do ... Take their corpses to Russia and put them on the world a review indicating their data ... Why? What to force Poland to simply attack us ... That's when .... it won't be .. at all ... and Europe will not twitch ....
  17. Maks1995
    Maks1995 2 December 2022 10: 37
    -1
    And what did they expect?
    HPP.
    Until the age of 21-22, how GDP didn’t scare, everyone saved on weapons and the army (remember how Agent Trump cursed, and the media painted how everything rusts there)
    And now everything. When a neighbor is thrown into the "lunar landscape", and another neighbor either incites migrants, or fires at the border, everyone is forced to take care of preparing for a non-war. Especially Poland, which supports both Ukraine and Belarus.

    Golden rain in the military-industrial complex, rapid reaction forces, new weapons to replace the old ...
    Classic
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvGYdDLIZcw
    1. Akuzenka
      Akuzenka 3 December 2022 00: 21
      0
      Golden rain in the military-industrial complex, rapid reaction forces, new weapons to replace the old ...
      Classic
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvGYdDLIZcw
      Off! Now it's different and you can't say for sure. Only blood, unfortunately real. Russian! At both sides. However, capital does not care, the main thing is profit!
  18. iouris
    iouris 2 December 2022 12: 06
    +1
    For three hundred years Poland has been going to war with Russia. We should close this thread for good.
  19. Ivanov IV
    Ivanov IV 2 December 2022 13: 20
    0
    Pshekaly watch how Russia lisps with banderlogs, and cheered up.
    And Russia just needs to be explained, convincingly, that no one will persuade pshekals. That, finally, Russia will shake itself off from the diberast, and blast the BC. And there will be silence, then. And a lunar landscape.
  20. Baker
    Baker 2 December 2022 14: 05
    +2
    The level of analytics on the site is striking in depth, and analysts - in their awareness and ability to predict the course of events.
    Kherson is a Russian city! Nobody will give it away! And exchange for some other too! So that's enough...
    Author:
    Alexander Staver

    In general, the NATO bloc is not interested in either a loss or a confident victory for Ukraine, it seems that the current scenario for the development of the conflict suits them quite well.
    Author:
    Victor Biryukov
  21. Negro
    Negro 2 December 2022 19: 45
    0
    )))
    It’s very funny to see on the site where, at the request of the Suwalki Corridor, 37 articles are published, lamentations on the topic “is Poland really going to fight with US ?!”
  22. Fangaro
    Fangaro 2 December 2022 20: 18
    0
    Why did wars happen in the past? Because of the desire to receive benefits. Economic.
    Aren't the EU countries, the countries that are members of NATO, the USA and their non-European allies now pursuing the same goal?
    The longer Russia stays in a state of NWO, the more not Ukraine will gain, but all our opponents.
    I agree with the author that now Ukraine is just a playing card, which both Europe and the United States use in their game. And it is important for them to get something for their arms supplies and the imposition of sanctions.
    Or the weakening of Russia and the resources and internal policies that will be imposed; or the territory of Ukraine, which will be used for the benefit of big business in the EU and the USA.
    And if Europe also collapses its economy ... Rule, Britain, the seas, it will turn into "Rule, America, the planet." (((
  23. odisey3000
    odisey3000 2 December 2022 21: 38
    0
    This is a war of nerves, they are trying to take us weakly and frightened. There were two clowns here the other day, although the well done guys Vovan and Lexus had a private conversation on behalf of, as it were, journalists with the Minister of Defense of Poland. no one in Poland wants a war with Russia, and this is a bad dream of the Poles, by proxy, yes, you are always welcome, in a single ranks with the euro union. Europe has become accustomed to comfort for 75 years without a war, well, apart from poor Yugoslavia, no one cares about it did not consider Europe.
  24. cat hippopotamus
    cat hippopotamus 2 December 2022 22: 01
    -1
    The Poles would have to read history, but think well how all wars ended with Russia. They don’t have a big choice, they will either live, or they will all burn out in a nuclear fire. In the event that the Poles are dragged into the war against Russia and Article 5 is not applied. This, of course, will make the United States doubly worthwhile, they will simply be happy with this, even if the Poles lose everything. The main protracted war in the former Ukraine. And apply 5th Art. does not make sense, because then all the khan. And so, even if the Poles are sacrificed, then in principle the loss is not great. This will suit the app itself. Europe especially Germany.
    1. Akuzenka
      Akuzenka 3 December 2022 00: 16
      -1
      The Poles would read history, but think well how all wars ended with Russia.
      The ostrich bird has a working memory of 45 seconds. The Poles have even less. How much? Scientists haven't figured it out yet.
    2. Osipov9391
      Osipov9391 3 December 2022 00: 17
      -1
      Any attack on Poland (even a retaliatory one) will immediately lead to a war between the US and NATO, because it will hook the US military facilities located there, including the missile defense base, which is one way or another part of the US strategic offensive potential.
      And no one knows what missiles are now installed in the same launch cups at this missile defense base.
      There can easily be medium-range missiles with the shortest flight time to the most important targets in the European part of Russia.
  25. Akuzenka
    Akuzenka 3 December 2022 00: 15
    0
    All clear. The owner gave the command "face" to his most beloved mongrel. The level of confrontation is rising. Will GDP be fucked by a mongrel? This is what the owner of the mongrel wants to see. He does not feel sorry for the mongrel, but how many screams!
  26. Ivanov IV
    Ivanov IV 3 December 2022 15: 11
    0
    The problem is not with the Poles. The problem is in our top "power".
    Solid "weathervanes" in power.
    What is our "SVO" called? "Strange military operation".....
    The Americans themselves cannot (do not want to) get into a "fight". So they kick their mongrels (Pshekals, Balts, etc.) so that they squeal louder.
    And ours are "embarrassed" to yell at the mongrels: maybe the "owners" will not like it.
    Things have come to the point that banderlogs will soon wipe their butts. They are already discussing how "bad" it is for Banderlogs, they are afraid of the dark, and we turn off the light for them. "Ze" publicly pisses on our "Guarantor". And to that, everything is "God's dew."
  27. FeodorY
    FeodorY 3 December 2022 15: 15
    0
    Who prevents ours from making a statement: the entry of any country into the conflict will be regarded as an attack on the Russian Federation, the answer is at least a strike of tactical nuclear weapons throughout the territory. Let the ardor cool some of the patients on the head .... The more silent our well-known ministries of the Foreign and Defense Ministry, the more sworn friends raise their heads and make the same ones.
  28. Illanatol
    Illanatol 4 December 2022 08: 56
    0
    Quote: RUR
    From the book of the German historian Guido Knopp - History of the Wehrmacht. Outcomes (can be downloaded for free)
    “The war against Poland created a myth, which both the Germans themselves and their opponent very quickly and willingly believed - the myth that the Wehrmacht is an invincible and ultra-modern military machine. At the same time, the lightning victory over Poland cost the Wehrmacht a lot:


    Cheap, extremely cheap. Despite the fact that Pshekia mobilized and numerically the army was not small.
    But the vast majority of Polish soldiers and officers surrendered without getting a scratch.
    In all normal wars, the greatest losses in killed are among the junior command staff. This is understandable: combat commanders must carry along, inspire the rank and file. And the enemy in a firefight aims primarily at the commanders. But in the Polish-German war - it was different. And no wonder: the commanders were the first to flee the battlefield, abandoning their subordinates. And the Polish generals ... most of them, after a fleeting campaign, will end up in London, having made a swift march throw Poland - Romania - France - England.
    Well, the Germans, not wanting to devalue their victory over a weak and cowardly enemy, created a myth about the "resilience of the Polish army." Otherwise, all their orders with oak leaves could well be called a salad with forks.
  29. Illanatol
    Illanatol 4 December 2022 09: 33
    0
    Quote: RUR
    I have the Molotov Pact


    And what's wrong with the Pact?
    Let us examine the Pact and its consequences.
    1. The USSR concluded a pact with Germany after it was convinced of the price of agreements with "Western democracies". As you know, the USSR had a tripartite defense alliance with France and Czechoslovakia, which had an anti-German orientation. Under the terms of the treaty, the USSR had the right to provide military assistance to Czechoslovakia in the event of aggression against it, if France also provided military assistance.
    But, as you know, France, represented by Daladier (at the suggestion of England) betrayed Czechoslovakia in Munich. The USSR then even tried to go beyond the terms of the agreement by asking Poland to provide a land corridor for its army. Poland refused, also playing into the hands of Hitler. The last real chance to avoid a major war in Europe was missed - through the fault of Poland, too.
    2. The pact was concluded at the height of the Soviet-Japanese conflict (Khalkhin Gol). The Japanese regarded the conclusion of the Pact with the USSR as a betrayal on the part of Hitler (he did not even inform the Japanese, his allies, of such a decision). Thus, Stalin drove a wedge between Berlin and Tokyo. The new Japanese government signed a peace treaty with the USSR and refused to open a second front against the USSR, despite all the requests of the Reich.
    3. The secret appendices to the Pact of the Republic of Moldova on the division of "spheres of influence" on Polish territory between the USSR and the Reich, contrary to the opinion of many, did not have an anti-Polish orientation. On the contrary, they increased Poland's chances of successful resistance in the event of a war with one of the parties to the Pact. Since such a partition blocked the possibility of the complete occupation of Poland by one state. After all, according to the terms
    agreements, each of the parties to the Pact had the right, in the event of a conflict with Poland, to bring its army exclusively into its "sphere of influence". The entry of troops into another "sphere" automatically gave the other side of the Pact the right to start a war against the violator of this agreement. Thus, half of the country (Poland) turned into a territory inaccessible to the aggressor, which could not even be bombed and shelled without the risk of provoking the other side of the Pact against itself.
    It should be taken into account that initially the division of spheres of influence as a whole passed along the former border of the Republic of Ingushetia, an advantageous natural defensive line (along large rivers).
    Thus, according to Stalin, the course of events should have been as follows. Germany attacks Poland. The Poles, on the defensive, withdraw to the east, beyond the line of demarcation of "spheres of influence". They take up defensive positions. The German army cannot storm positions - there is a risk of provoking the USSR to retaliate. Poland, on the other hand, is waiting for military assistance from its allies - England and France (the deadline is 17 days from the beginning of the conflict), after which Hitler will be forced to abandon further aggression.
    It would be so, perhaps, if Poland had a normal, adequate government and generals who would take care of their nation. But the political and military leadership of pre-war Poland turned out to be a bunch of cowardly bastards. They simply abandoned their country and their army, fleeing to Romania. The army was disorganized and also began to move south, to Romania, and not to the East. The allies, England and France, also did not provide effective assistance on time. Stalin, after the expiration of the term, was forced to send troops to, in fact, ownerless territory. Although he had the right, in this situation, to half of Poland, Stalin did not occupy these territories, but only those that were inhabited by ethnic Little Russians and Belarusians, personally moving the "boundary of the sphere of influence" to the east.
  30. yuriy1863
    yuriy1863 4 December 2022 13: 01
    0
    Uncle Sam will not let the Polish boy go anywhere yet. They will only allow them to threaten with a fist through the cordon and puff out their cheeks. And there are enough Polish legionnaires at the front.
  31. nordscout
    nordscout 4 December 2022 13: 58
    0
    The Poles need to be reminded that Russia can contribute to the next, IVth partition of Poland, with all the ensuing "charms" of this event for her .... "It's itching" - to make war with Russia ... There is a good "cure" for such Polish "wishlist" "- TNW. True, it has many side effects ... But the brain, after it, turns on immediately, political "enlightenment" sets in, and a strong desire to "be friends at home", developing political, economic and cultural cooperation ... Look how great the USA and Japan did after the use of nuclear weapons by the United States in just two cities of Japan ... "They have been friends with each other" for 77 years ... Maybe this is how the eternal "Polish question" mixed with arrogance and dense Russophobia should be resolved?
  32. Denis812
    Denis812 5 December 2022 11: 32
    0
    NATO or individual countries of the alliance (Poland, Romania) can theoretically intervene in a military conflict in Ukraine only in two cases - either if Ukraine begins to suffer a military defeat, or if Russia uses tactical nuclear weapons

    That's just in the case of the use of nuclear weapons, neither Poland, nor even Romania, will get into the war.
    What the West is doing in Ukraine now is due to the weakness of our response. If at the very beginning of the campaign they would have demonstratively hit with Caliber or whatever else on the auto / railway crossings between Poland and Ukraine, then there would have been no arms supplies.
    And the "philanthropy" of the Kremlin led just to the ocean of military aid from the West.