Military Review

Volga steamships: on the carriage and in the battles on the Civil

103
Volga steamships: on the carriage and in the battles on the Civil
Steamboat "Mefodiy", which was used by the Czechoslovak Legion during the campaign against Kazan. It was armed with two guns mounted on the built-on fore deck. What weapons were carried on the rear deck is unknown.



Ah, what is moving there along the river,
White smoke plays and shines
metal in the sun.
Oh, don't lie to me forebodings,
Yes, my eyes didn't lie.
White swan gliding on the wave
The steamer is moving along smoothly.

Lyricist: Victor Dragunsky

Military-technical creativity. The special operation in Ukraine, as well as the military operations of recent years, revealed the spread of such an interesting phenomenon as "military-technical creativity."

Of course, people have encountered it before, but, let's say, during the years of the same Great Patriotic War, it was more, to put it mildly, theoretical. But now what only we do not see. Pipe bombers mounted on a bulldozer blade, water pipe rockets fueled by sugar and potassium nitrate, quadcopters converted into bombers, anti-missile grilles on tanks...

Creativity of the masses on the battlefield


But this creativity has not yet touched the river vessels, well, except that the Armed Forces of Ukraine fired on Snake Island with guns from barges. Well, yes, they just rolled them onto barges. There didn't seem to be any significant changes.

Meanwhile, the war on the rivers of Russia, and above all on the Volga during the Civil War of 1918-1922, gave us many interesting examples of such creativity. That is, both whites and reds began to turn ordinary commercial steamships into warships, which began to be used in the most active way in battles.

And the funny thing is that the situation with the Volga steamers was in many ways very similar to the situation with the American steamers on the Mississippi, and also in the Civil War between North and South. That is, along the Volga, as well as along the Mississippi, they sailed ... the real "Tom Sawyer steamers", but for a number of reasons they did not have to fight. This was done by steamships of purely Russian construction.

But why this happened and how the Volga steamers were generally converted into combat steamers on the Volga, we will tell you today ...

Ah, what is moving there along the river ...


American steamboats appeared in Russia during the period of rapid development of market relations in our country, brought to life by the abolition of serfdom. Accordingly, this was the impetus for the development of the Volga shipping. Steamships were built one after another, several shipping companies arose. It is clear that competition immediately arose between them, and with it the “fight for the passenger”.

The easiest way was to reduce the cost of travel by steamer with a high quality of service. All this led to the decision to build ships with two or three decks in order to increase passenger capacity. But where was it possible to find a sample convenient for construction and - most importantly - so that it was not very expensive ?!


Alfons Alexandrovich Zeveke - a famous Volga shipbuilder

And then, namely in 1881, the shipbuilder Alfons Aleksandrovich Zeveke specially sent his son to South America to inspect the local rear-wheel steamers sailing along the Amazon. Of course, the same steamers sailed along the rivers of the United States, but still not quite the same.

The fact is that two types of steamboats were mainly built in this way: cotton carriers (they also carried blacks), cheap, wooden, but without any comfort, and large, double-deck and comfortable, but with a metal hull, and therefore expensive for our pocket. But he liked the Amazonian ships, and the Zeweke company decided to bet on them. Already in the winter of 1881-1882, the first "American" was built in Nizhny Novgorod - the Amazonka steamer with a rear-wheel drive!


Steamships of the Zeveke company, lined up on the Nizhny Novgorod roadstead. As you can see, there were quite a few of them.

Comfortable, load-bearing and cheap


The steamer turned out to be famous: it was double-deck (the captain's cabin was on the third, uppermost one), 58 m long and 11 m wide. And since it had a flat bottom, it turned out to be record light. But he could take on board 400 passengers and 393 tons of cargo.

Closer to the bow across the hull were two tall narrow pipes, which is why the Volgars began to call the new ships "goats". He had two boilers in the bow, and a two-cylinder steam engine in the stern. Thanks to this arrangement, the middle part of the vessel became possible to use for cargo placement, and the ends of the vessel were protected from sagging.


Another Zeveke steamer: "Pearl". Wheel at the back. Someone obviously ran into a board or someone ran into him ...

The paddle wheel, located behind the stern, was rotated by two connecting rods. The ship had four rudders at once, which were controlled with the help of two tillers. This made a certain sense, since it made it possible to increase maneuverability when moving through shallow water.

The steamer showed itself well during the period of low water in 1883, sailing between Nizhny Novgorod and Saratov. Seeweke was also pleased with this in 1883-1888. his company built several more steamships similar to him, but with a greater carrying capacity.

Quality service means a lot!


Passengers on the Seveke steamers were cared for in a way that was not cared for anywhere else. Passengers of the 1st and 2nd classes were offered luxuriously decorated cabins. Buffets and libraries are right on board, and there you can read books and browse the latest newspapers and magazines.

Even the piano could be seen in the salon of the Zevek steamer.

And the passengers of these two classes had a funny privilege - to land on any pier of their choice outside the schedule along the way, it was enough to ask the captain about it! Moreover, if there was suddenly no berth on the shore, then this should not have been an obstacle. They were obliged to lower the boat from the steamer (and they did lower it!), If only to take the passenger ashore. That is, from the steamer, a passenger of the first 2 classes could afford to land on the shore even just “in the bushes”, which was what the then ... revolutionaries used to escape from the police.

But at first, the steamers left for a voyage half empty, because a rumor spread that they were too high, so a strong wind would definitely overturn them! But then the admiring stories of those who were not afraid to take risks, and skillful advertising, did their job, and the public “tumbled down the shaft” on the Zeveke steamers.


Hall of the steamer "Alexander II" of the shipping company "Caucasus and Mercury"

A contagious example


Soon other rear-wheel steamers of the companies appeared on the Volga: Rossiya (the merchant Petelin), Brilliant, Yakhont, Turquoise, Emerald, Rubin, Zhemchuzhina (Druzhina companies). Despite the separation of the propulsion system, it was still not possible to avoid sagging of the extremities. And they were pulled together with metal cables, like on American steamships. The cables were laid along the racks, fixed in the center plane of the vessel, and tightly stretched with the help of lanyards.

Amusing technical solutions were also used on them. For example, on the Yakhont steamer, the transmission from the steam engine to the paddle wheel was carried out by a wooden connecting rod ... several meters long, which, in addition to everything else, still splashed loudly on the water!

At the same time, the crank at its lower point touched the water, especially when the steamer was sailing at full draft. And the bearing was entirely in the water, which the oilers responsible for lubricating it were very happy about, since they no longer had to check its temperature every now and then, which they did by touch, since the water cooled it all the time.


Steveboat Zeveke "Magdalena"

"Rivermen" enter the battle


When the Civil War began in Russia, "American-type" steamships were still sailing along the Volga. But none of the naval officers who fought under the banner of KOMUCH (Committee of Members of the Constituent Assembly) thought to turn them into warships, like American river battleships.


Typical U.S. river ironclad 1861–1865

After all, both the Niva magazine and Vokrug Sveta reported about them, there were articles and drawings, and they also wrote about this in the Marine Collection. But the memoirs of the “river officers” of KOMUCH are full of reports that “no one knew what to do”, “had no idea”, etc.

When it was decided to arm the Volga steamships, they began to use river tugs, on which 76,2-mm guns were placed openly on the deck: one gun in front and the other in the back, and two more machine guns on the wings of the bridge. There is no way to take the Seeveke steamships, remove their superstructures, cover the boilers and the steam engine with armor and use them as warships. After all, their carrying capacity from such relief would greatly increase. But no. They began to arm tugs with war wheels, which were more vulnerable.


Battle of the battleships on the Mississippi

True, they thought of making turning circles under the guns, and their wheels were attached to them with clamps. It was necessary to move this “installation” with the help of the “rule”, but she had no armor. On the other hand, the crews of the machine guns that stood above the very casings of the side wheels after some time were protected by towers riveted from large-diameter iron pipes inserted one into the other.

It is interesting that after the entire space between them was filled with tar, the bullets stopped penetrating this “armor”, but got stuck ... in the molten tar! The turrets were turning on the pivot, with the feet of the machine gunner sitting inside. Well, the sides and cabin, modeled on the American "cotton armadillos", were "booked" with bales of Iranian cotton.


Rail armor. The sample is lifted from the bottom of the Mississippi, and the gray mass between them is nothing more than silt that has accumulated there

But American battleships already in 1861 had armor made of railroad rails! In this case, the decks were removed from the hull, the pipes were cut off, guns were placed in the casemate: 2-3 forward, 4-5 on the sides and 2 more back. The casings of the paddle wheels were also armored, or one such wheel was covered on all sides with a deck casemate.

And the guns were no match for our "three-inch": 6, 8 and even 10 inches. The rifled guns of Parrot and Dahlgren, and the smooth-bore bombers, what was, then they set. Meanwhile, the shrapnel projectile of our 76,2-mm cannon, even set "on impact", could do little with such protection, and there were few high-explosive projectiles, and where would they shoot at it?

That is, what was good on the Mississippi, on the Volga on a new round stories could have worked even better, but... for some reason it didn't work! Barges (non-self-propelled), yes, were armed with 102-mm naval guns and even 152-mm howitzers. Tanks (oil barges were used) along the sides were poured with concrete, which made them invulnerable, although deprived of their own course.


A typical "cotton armadillo" of the southerners, armored with bales of cotton. The latter were laid between the double walls of the casemate, which protected the boilers, the steam engine and partly the paddle wheels. Armament - two weapons that were at hand.

The authors of the memoirs write that they lacked everything: armor, guns, shells, but there were rails! There were also sleepers, and this is almost finished armor. That is, KOMUCH could hypothetically have strong ships and capture not only Kazan, Samara and Tsaritsyn, but also hold the entire Volga in its hands and even, moreover, conduct successful battles with the Baltic destroyers, carried out on the orders of Lenin through the Mariinsky system.

So the “hint” to the Komuchevsky officers in the form of the Zeveke steamers was right in front of their eyes, and, as educated people, they should have known about the US war. And there were enough engineers on the Volga. But they could not do anything really serious!

As a result, the troops of KOMUCH who fought under the red banners (only the Kappelites fought under the black and orange St. George banner) on the Volga were defeated before the arrival of Kolchak’s units, and our whole history developed as it developed.


Battleship northerners "Essex" with rail armor

It is interesting that the ships of the Druzhina company sailed along the Volga even in the pre-war years, and the Yakhont even until 1956, when it was sent for scrapping. By the way, in the film comedy "Volga-Volga" one surviving such steamer, for some reason called "Sevryuga", was just shown. But no Americans (as it is sung about in a movie song), of course, gave it to us!

People who are lucky


The usual fate of the Russian merchants at the beginning of the 1864th century was not very rosy: someone went bankrupt and then shot himself, another drank himself, the third did not survive the revolution. And only the sons of A. A. Zeveke were truly lucky. So, the eldest son Zeveke (from his first marriage) Alexander Alfonsovich (1917-XNUMX) managed to die on the eve of the Bolshevik coup.


The legendary "Sevryuga" from the film comedy "Volga-Volga". It was about her in the film that they sang: “America gave Russia a steamboat, it has wheels at the back and is terribly quiet!” Film frame

The youngest son (from his second marriage) Vasily Alfonsovich Zeveke (1878–1941) became a riverman. In 1917, he spent almost a year in the United States, on assignment from the Russian Ministry of Waterways. He returned to his homeland and became a shipbuilding engineer at the Krasnoye Sormovo plant. Inspired by photography, he kept not only his photographs, but also old family negatives, even on glass plates.

His son, the grandson of the famous grandfather, Alexander, also became interested in photography, and the entire family heritage fell into his hands. In 2007, he gave it to the archive of audiovisual documentation of the Nizhny Novgorod region, for which the governor of the region awarded him with a diploma.

That is, the descendants of the Volga shipowner Zeveke lived the God-given time, and did not get to Kolyma, and lived their lives in their homeland, and their family steamer even got into a popular movie!
Author:
103 comments
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 December 2022 05: 12
    +9
    Thanks to Vyacheslav for the article!
    If any of the comrades is interested in the history of the river fleet, I recommend:

    All the good days!
    1. kalibr
      1 December 2022 07: 26
      +6
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      interested in the history of the river fleet

      You recommend a very good book, Vladislav. She has only one flaw. There is so much in it that after reading it, nothing remains in your head!
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 December 2022 11: 30
        +4
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        interested in the history of the river fleet

        You recommend a very good book, Vladislav. She has only one flaw. There is so much in it that after reading it, nothing remains in your head!

        Features of any encyclopedia!
        Books from the series:
        1. kalibr
          1 December 2022 11: 53
          +3
          Hey, yes Vladislav! Uel was so far away ... So to speak, "a blow from the side." But in justification I can only say that in the first book of mine there will be three of them. Is not it so? Easier to master.
          1. Monster_Fat
            Monster_Fat 2 December 2022 00: 12
            0
            I read a very interesting book by an English artillery officer who participated in the Civil War in Russia, and precisely on a riverboat. Very interesting to read. Especially his reviews and opinions about whites, reds, and in general about life in Russia at that time. Unfortunately, I forgot the title of the book - I read it a long time ago.
            1. kalibr
              2 December 2022 08: 24
              +1
              Quote: Monster_Fat
              Unfortunately, I forgot the title of the book - I read it a long time ago.

              The funny thing is, I also forgot the book of memoirs of white officers, which I read in 2005.
  2. Amateur
    Amateur 1 December 2022 05: 30
    +5
    America of Russia gave the ship
    It has wheels on the back
    And an awfully quiet move ...
    ("Volga-Volga", 1938)

    1. kalibr
      1 December 2022 07: 21
      +4
      What a good photo you found. I'm worse...
      1. dauria
        dauria 1 December 2022 07: 33
        +8
        Ty. About five years ago ... The same Lower, opposite the Arrow. This trough rolled funny "corporate parties" from the pier to the bridge and back. There will be a revolution, call us, we will remake it into the battleship "Shpakovsky" laughing
        [Center]
        1. kalibr
          1 December 2022 08: 10
          +3
          Quote: dauria
          remake it into the battleship "Shpakovsky"

          Grateful to the bottom of my heart!
          1. dauria
            dauria 1 December 2022 08: 27
            +8
            Grateful to the bottom of my heart!

            I hope you are not offended by an innocent joke . It's just that the fairway of the Volga is so insidious that a raft of logs (not to mention a barge flooded in the right place) will stop any "armadillo" tightly. And from the high right bank, one cannon is enough to gouge the "squadron" with impunity.
            So our warriors are of this size, no more.
            1. kalibr
              1 December 2022 08: 29
              +4
              Quote: dauria
              will stop any "armadillo" tightly.

              That was not the case in Citizen ... Why be offended? Laughed...
          2. The comment was deleted.
  3. hohol95
    hohol95 1 December 2022 05: 52
    +4
    And the Bolsheviks used not only the old destroyers.
    Towing steamer "Vanya-Kommunist" and other ships that worked on the Volga before the October Revolution.
    1. kalibr
      1 December 2022 07: 23
      +4
      Quote: hohol95
      Towing steamer "Vanya-Kommunist"

      This is the Red theme. About "Vanya" and the Model Designer wrote and even gave drawings ... And I wrote the material on the memoirs of the Whites. They are quite rare.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 1 December 2022 07: 28
        +4
        And where are the phrases from the memoirs in the article?
        Or links to certain authors?
        And about the restructuring of river steamships into river battleships - either there was no desire to engage in or simply there was no production capacity to carry out such a restructuring of steamboats.
        1. kalibr
          1 December 2022 08: 13
          +5
          Quote: hohol95
          And where are the phrases from the memoirs in the article?
          Or links to certain authors?

          Everything is written in your own words. And there are no links for one simple reason. I read them when I was collecting material for the novel "Three from Ensk". There, just the thing is happening on the ships of KOMUCH. And since I wanted maximum reliability, I took everything from there. And since this is a novel, what are the links there. And everything was forgotten. Except text. It is almost a tracing paper of memoirs.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 1 December 2022 10: 41
            +6
            It is almost a tracing paper of memoirs.

            Good morning everyone!
            It is a pity that the article does not include photos of improvised machine-gun turrets. Are there any photos left...
            Specialized river armored boats were built under the tsar, I must say. For the Amur flotilla, 10 BCs of the "Bayonet" type were built, two of them ("Spear" and "Peak") managed to take part in the conflict with the White Chinese in 1929, and even fight with the samurai in 1945.

            Shirokorad in his book "Far Eastern Final" writes that by the time of 1945 they were armed with two guns, and even gives a drawing. Perhaps this is wrong.

            Machine-gun armored boats were used by the tsarist army during the WWII on the rivers, including the Western Dvina.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 1 December 2022 11: 21
              +6
              Hi, Nikolay! smile
              As for the two guns on these boxes, in my opinion, it's overkill, where to store shells for them?
              Yes, and they were not called armored boats, but messenger ships (boats), perhaps there was no armor at all.

              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 1 December 2022 11: 38
                +4
                Yes, and they were not called armored boats, but messenger ships (boats), perhaps there was no armor at all.

                Hi Uncle Kostya! drinks According to Wikipedia (I didn’t check further, too lazy), there was still armor. In the Soviet fleet (and in the monumental Naval Atlas) they went exactly like armored boats.
                About two guns. Everything is simple. hi
                I found a drawing from Shirokorad's book. His drawing depicted a gunboat GVTU (in the figure it is erroneously written - GVIU), also of royal construction.stop "Spear" and "Peak" were structurally different.
                I can be wrong too. It is necessary to lift the book, look at the caption under the picture.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 1 December 2022 11: 43
                  +5
                  Boats with mountain guns ... but they thought of it. laughing
                  Well, shoot and okay.
              2. hohol95
                hohol95 1 December 2022 12: 13
                +3
                "Each boat was supposed to be armed with two 76,2-mm mountain guns of the 1904 model. But later they received 76,2-mm guns of the 1909 model on the deck installations of the Bryansk plant (elevation angle + 30 °, horizontal guidance of the bow gun 270 °, stern 300°)."
                "Stalin's armored boat"
                Chernikov I. I.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 1 December 2022 12: 28
                  +3
                  on deck installations of the Bryansk plant

                  And the method of mounting installations is approximately the same as for guns arr. 1904?

                  The 76-mm mountain gun of the 1909 model of the year, also the 3-inch mountain gun of the 1909 model of the year, is a rapid-fire mountain gun of the Danglis-Schneider system, adopted by the Russian army and the Red Army.
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 1 December 2022 12: 51
                    +4
                    Yes. Tubular installation.
                    Like the previous one.
                    They wanted tower ones, but "didn't grow together" !!!
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 1 December 2022 13: 22
                      +3
                      but it didn't work out


                      And for what reason, they couldn’t rivet the iron?)))
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 1 December 2022 13: 37
                        +4
                        Konstantin!!! The book must be read. It was supposed to make armored vehicles with gun turrets. But they didn't build it! Accordingly, no one made towers.
                        The armored cars were going to be made on the basis of the American wheeled tractor "Walter".
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 1 December 2022 14: 17
                        +4
                        It was supposed to make armored vehicles with gun turrets. But they didn't build it!

                        Alexey, during the WWI, the Garford armored cars and the Gulkevich armored tractor (the latter - in a single copy) were built with towers (albeit with limited guidance angles). Yes, they did plan to do it on the basis of "Walter". yes drinks
                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 1 December 2022 15: 02
                        +6
                        Well, Garford-Putilov is a famous car

                        Like Colonel Gulkevich's armored tractor
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 1 December 2022 14: 51
                        +6
                        Konstantin!!! The book must be read.


                        Actually, I am aware and, oddly enough, I read something from time to time, but ... "one cannot embrace the immensity." Surely there are books that you have not read. yes
                        were going to do on the basis of the American wheeled tractor "Walter".
                        They were going to, but "did not grow together." request
                        And it should have looked something like this.

                        By the way, the tractor was all-wheel drive.
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 1 December 2022 15: 27
                        +3
                        Surely there are books that you have not read.
                        For example, "Once Upon a Time in the Middle Ages".)))
                      6. Catfish
                        Catfish 1 December 2022 15: 38
                        +3
                        Ask Michael, he will send. I liked the book. smile
                      7. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 1 December 2022 15: 43
                        +3
                        I don't need anything, I have a paper copy. I'm talking about Alexei.
                      8. Catfish
                        Catfish 1 December 2022 16: 11
                        +3
                        I'm sorry, I just didn't understand who I'm answering and ... hello to you. smile drinks
                      9. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 1 December 2022 16: 15
                        +3
                        So the arrows are not just drawn like that!
                        Hi uncle!
                      10. Catfish
                        Catfish 1 December 2022 17: 29
                        +5
                        Arrows and switchmen are always to blame for everything, the main thing is to find them in time. wink
                      11. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 1 December 2022 21: 25
                        +2
                        Two brothers came up to me
                        Come up and say
                        “Is the doll to blame?
                        Is the clown to blame?

                      12. Catfish
                        Catfish 1 December 2022 22: 25
                        +2
                        - Oh! Wan! Look, what clowns!
                        Mouth - at least stitches ...
                        Oh, what, Wan, are painted
                        And the voice - like drunks!
                      13. hohol95
                        hohol95 1 December 2022 21: 12
                        +2
                        But I read "The Little Savages" by Ernest Seton-Thompson tongue
                        And "Rus' and the Horde" by M. D. Koroteev!
                        "Pushkar Sobinka" G. G. Kulikov tongue
                      14. hohol95
                        hohol95 1 December 2022 16: 23
                        +4
                        And I recently saw in the movie "Battle for LongTang" Owen's Australian PP, so to speak, in action.
                        A film about how Two companies from the "Country of Emu and Dingo" destroyed the Vietnamese REGIMENT, and they themselves lost only 18 soldiers!
                      15. hohol95
                        hohol95 1 December 2022 21: 06
                        +2
                        Didn't read: "Quiet Don"; "War and Peace"; "Hour of the Bull"; "Rob Roy"; "Three Musketeers" and the rest of the "Dumas"; Lovecraft books; King's books (only individual stories) and so on!!!
                      16. Catfish
                        Catfish 1 December 2022 21: 17
                        +3
                        and so on!!!


                        And so on and so forth…

                        But not me, but the mask - Tartaglia,
                        I'm good, and the mask is a canal,
                        This mask is my anomaly
                        Human feelings and so on,
                        And so on, and so on, and so on ...

                        A joke, obviously. smile drinks
                      17. hohol95
                        hohol95 1 December 2022 21: 26
                        +2
                        My father liked to read "The Knight in the Panther's Skin" and "Uarda" by E. G. Moritz.
                        I didn't even get close to them. drinks
                      18. Catfish
                        Catfish 1 December 2022 22: 21
                        +3
                        I haven't read either one either. But my father, an "old Bolshevik" and a personal pensioner, slipped me Captain Blood's Odyssey and The Heir from Calcutta. smile
                      19. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 2 December 2022 06: 13
                        +2
                        It is hard to understand those who have such a craving not cut through. At least at some point in life.
                      20. Catfish
                        Catfish 2 December 2022 08: 40
                        +1
                        Recently I met such a person, in one ward they were lying, a two-meter-long fellow of about forty years old with a tail. He saw that I was buried in the tablet and asked:
                        - Are you playing with a toy?
                        - No - I say - I'm reading a book.
                        - I don't like to read books...
                        Well, what was there to talk about with him, even though he chatted on the phone all day like a woman.
              3. Senior seaman
                Senior seaman 1 December 2022 13: 29
                +3
                Quote: Sea Cat
                As for the two guns on these boxes, in my opinion, it's overkill, where to store shells for them?

                Sobsno, therefore, and 76 mm mountain guns, so that shells can be taken from the ground forces.
                When some of the boats were transferred to the Baltic, they re-equipped with 47mm Hotchkiss guns.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 1 December 2022 14: 45
                  +4
                  , re-equipped with 47mm Hotchkiss guns.


                  It looks like she is in the photo of "Checkers", only without a shield


            2. kalibr
              1 December 2022 11: 54
              +4
              Quote: Pane Kohanku
              Are there any photos left...

              No. Descriptions only. I even looked in the KPRIVO archive.
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 1 December 2022 12: 03
                +3
                No. Descriptions only. I even looked in the KPRIVO archive.

                It's a pity. It would be interesting to see how these structures looked.
                1. kalibr
                  1 December 2022 17: 09
                  +2
                  Quote: Pane Kohanku
                  Very sorry.

                  And I'm sorry to read and not see in reality. And guess everything.
            3. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 1 December 2022 15: 08
              +3
              Quote: Pane Kohanku
              Specialized river armored boats were built under the tsar, I must say.

              In several issues of "Gangut" there was an article on the river fleet of the Empire in WWI. Then a whole line of ships was built - armored gunboats with a pair of mountain 76,2-mm and Maxims, patrol, reconnaissance and messenger boats (some of which also carried armor), universal barges for various "stuffing" (artillery, supplies, repair) .
              Quote: Pane Kohanku
              For the Amur flotilla built 10 BC type "Bayonet"

              These are the first pre-war. In WWI, river ships began to be built for the ETTD, and after the war, this trifle spread through the river fleets of different countries from the Danube to the Amur.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 1 December 2022 10: 45
        +4
        Vyacheslav, good afternoon!
        It was very interesting to read about everything, thanks. smile
        And I remember "Vanya-Communist" from early childhood, from the first visit to the Red Army Museum (it was still called that and was located in the building of the Catherine's boarding school for noble maidens, a new building was built later and very close by).
        The model was made very high quality and literally attracted us boys.

        And already in adulthood, after reading the memoirs of Lariska Reisner, I realized that in the battle at Pyany Bor, Markin killed both himself and the ship out of pure amateurism, moving forward without waiting for the report of intelligence sent ahead and falling under direct fire from white artillery. It's all about "piemakers and shoemakers" again ... request
        1. kalibr
          1 December 2022 11: 58
          +4
          Good afternoon, dear Konstantin. We had exactly the same model in the Penza Museum of Local Lore! And also ... attracted.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 1 December 2022 12: 07
            +3
            I always like details worked out to the smallest detail, for example, I was delighted with the Maxims on the bridge. smile
  4. hohol95
    hohol95 1 December 2022 07: 37
    +4
    Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    It turns out that in seven years no new information has appeared and this article is a "reprint" of the August 2015 article "Seeveke steamboats: failed "brown water battleships""!
    1. kalibr
      1 December 2022 08: 15
      +6
      Quote: hohol95
      no new information has appeared in seven years

      You are absolutely right. But there are many new readers. Then there were 40000 registered, today 90000. This is for them ... But the text has been thoroughly revised. The novelty is above 70%, so the rules of the site are not violated!
  5. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 1 December 2022 08: 28
    +6
    And I remembered Paratov's steamer from "Cruel Romance". Ryazanov said that in his film there are two main characters - the Volga and the steamer.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. Frank Muller
      Frank Muller 2 December 2022 00: 41
      +1
      There are different opinions about the "Cruel Romance", but you expressed the point of view not only of E. Ryazanov, but also of the majority of film critics: "Volga and Paratov's" Swallow "are the main characters of the film." The most complete reflection of the main characters of the Ostrovsky "Dowry" was embodied much earlier - in the film of the same name in 1936. However, in "Romance" the role of "Swallow" was played by the paddle steamer "Spartak" of the Volga Shipping Company (aka "Grand Duchess Tatyana Nikolaevna" after construction, then "Dobrynya Nikitich", then "Karl Marx", since 1919 - "Spartak" ). I didn’t have to visit the Spartak, but I had a chance to drive on its “double” Volodarsky in 1989, just before the ship was actually decommissioned. At that time, quite a few ancient steamboats still sailed along the Volga, but mostly propeller-driven ones.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 2 December 2022 06: 38
        0
        Hello, colleague!
        "Most film critics" at the time reacted negatively to the production. But, as for me, Ryazanov raised the passage, in general, Ostrovsky's play, to "Anna Karenina".
  6. kor1vet1974
    kor1vet1974 1 December 2022 08: 43
    +6
    our whole history has developed the way it has developed.
    Yes, it’s a pity that Komuch’s troops didn’t reach Moscow, no matter what life would come then, well, almost like now. smile
    1. kalibr
      1 December 2022 10: 06
      +2
      Quote: kor1vet1974
      Well, almost like now.

      That's it!
      1. kor1vet1974
        kor1vet1974 1 December 2022 10: 36
        +2
        That's it!
        Yes, yes, then it was necessary to scatter back in 1918, Russia separately, Ukraine, Central Asia, Transcaucasia, etc. separately, otherwise you understand, they lasted until 1991 .. laughing And foreign cars used to be in peasant yards, you see, even then they appeared .. laughing
    2. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 1 December 2022 15: 20
      +6
      Yeah, you also noticed the quivering, downright hysterical longing of the author for the missed opportunities to destroy at least a little more of this "red bastard", and there, you see, and ... laughing
      And it would be high time for the "bourgeois counter-revolution" to calm down and be satisfied with the victory of 1991 - no, there are still revanchist moods among them ... laughing
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 1 December 2022 16: 40
        +7
        Despite the fact that the Socialist-Revolutionaries "Komuchevites" are in essence the same red bastard. Just a slightly different color)
        But what is interesting, "Three from Ensk" is an honest book in its own way (maybe even against the will of the author)). The lack of ideas of the main characters, who have absolutely nothing to offer their people and country, is very accurately conveyed. Only a violent desire to drive the insolent back into the stall.
        1. kalibr
          1 December 2022 17: 12
          +3
          Quote: Senior Sailor
          Very well rendered

          I always knew you were smart. More proof of that...
      2. kalibr
        1 December 2022 17: 11
        +4
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        and there you look

        "Despite the fact that the Socialist-Revolutionaries" Komuchevtsy "in essence, the same red bastard. Just a slightly different shade" - Senior Sailor (Ivan Ochenkov)
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 1 December 2022 20: 20
          +5
          It is all the more amusing to see your sympathy for this organization in its struggle against the Bolsheviks. smile
          Has it ever seemed to you that your dislike for Soviet power in all its manifestations, regardless of the historical period, achievements and other moments - throughout all seventy years of its existence - seems to some extent irrational? Even the Spanish Fascists evoke sympathy in their struggle against the "Reds"...
          smile
          1. kalibr
            1 December 2022 20: 55
            +1
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            seems somewhat irrational

            You see, Michael, I know about achievements and other things. But I never liked deceptions and deceivers, and threw people like them. Knowing all the mechanics from the inside, I see the other side of the coin well. And I don't like her. And above all, on a personal level. I didn’t like that rockets were flying, and my teeth with pulpitis were being drilled without anesthesia. And then what kind of Spanish fascists are you talking about? There was no fascism in Spain. This is his "Pravda" came up with. Fascism was in Italy, Nazism + fascism in Germany, you can do this and that. And in Spain there was a national government that restored the country. By the way, I will write an article about KOMUCH, especially since I have been working on this topic for a long time and I have the material.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 2 December 2022 00: 33
              +1
              I don’t know, everyone lied, always and everywhere. As soon as the mass media appeared, streams immediately poured into the ears of the layman, I will not say - outright lies, but certainly untruths. And the communists certainly lied no more than the rest, they just did it, often clumsily, unprofessionally, especially in the last years of Soviet power. Maybe that's why you have such an attitude towards them? request smile
              The standard of living in the USSR, of course, lagged behind the most prosperous Western countries, but only behind the most prosperous. The standard of living was average, and it remains so today. You should not compare our backyards with their front signs.
              Well, as for Spain, you can, of course, call their phalanx whatever you like, the essence of this does not change - these are ultra-right nationalists, compared to whom the CPSU is just slobbering liberals. smile In any case, as you wish, but I can’t imagine you in their ranks. Kamarad Shpakovsky, raising his hand to the sun and singing "Kara sol com la camisa nueva" - this is something that even my fantasy refuses to reproduce. smile
              And, nevertheless, choosing between the communists and the Falangists, you choose the latter and this personally drives me into a state of cognitive dissonance. smile
              1. kalibr
                2 December 2022 08: 22
                +2
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Everyone lied, always and everywhere.

                Michael! The fact that they lied always and everywhere is indifferent to me. I care about the here and now. And the level of lies. And the opportunity to receive information on their own. For me, the difference between then and now is only that then in order to earn money I had to overcome a lot of difficulties, but now everything depends only on my desire and physical capabilities. Then both the state and the system prevented me from living. Now they hardly interfere. So what is best for me? There will be no me, there will be no universe. And if so, we respect the laws, and within their framework we do what we consider the best for ourselves within the framework of Christian morality. That's all! And the song ... I like this song better: Fasseta nera, bella abyssina, aspetta spera chia avvisina ...
  7. north 2
    north 2 1 December 2022 10: 31
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    And I remembered Paratov's steamer from "Cruel Romance". Ryazanov said that in his film there are two main characters - the Volga and the steamer.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!

    Steamboat Paratov "Swallow" in the movie "Cruel Romance", this is the steamship "Spartak" built in 1914 at the shipyards in Krasnoye Sormovo.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 1 December 2022 17: 26
      +3
      built in 1914 at the shipyards in Krasnoye Sormovo.


      In 1914 "Sormovo" was not yet "red". smile
  8. Maks1995
    Maks1995 1 December 2022 10: 50
    +1
    Good article about the history and the first steamboats.
    Lucky Zeweka.

    Question? with such a low river draft, could these steamers really be turned into armored steamers?
    Maybe that's why no one tried?
    The article describes how the Americans did it, how the officers of KOMUCH did not do it, although they supposedly could, and nothing is written that the Bolsheviks did like that.
    1. kalibr
      1 December 2022 12: 00
      +1
      Quote: Max1995
      nothing is written for the Bolsheviks to do this

      There will be about this ... So the volume of the article is large
  9. Baker
    Baker 1 December 2022 11: 54
    +3
    Already in the winter of 1881-1882, the first "American" was built in Nizhny Novgorod - the steamer "Amazonka"

    The first three "Americans" of the type of steamers used on the Mississippi for the Kama-Volga Shipping Company, at the suggestion of Alfons Zeveke, were built at the Benardaki Sormovo plant in 1871 according to drawings issued from the USA.

    The first of this trio was the double-deck steamer Perevorot, renamed Colorado in 1876 and Orinoco in 1891.
    And Zeveke began to build rear-wheeled steamers not to improve the quality of service, but for use on the Upper Volga shallow reach.
  10. lisikat2
    lisikat2 1 December 2022 12: 20
    +2
    Good day to all.
    Accidentally coincided that a little bit in the subject.
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, why do you think they didn't use "Americans"? The Whites had many talented officers.
    For example, sons: Makarov (son-naval engineer), Lieutenant Schmidt, also a naval engineer
    1. Senior seaman
      Senior seaman 1 December 2022 16: 32
      +2
      Quote from lisikat2
      The Whites had many talented officers.
      For example, sons: Makarov (son-naval engineer), Lieutenant Schmidt, also a naval engineer

      Vadim Stepanovich - graduated from the Marine Corps, and later became an engineer, let's say, "out of necessity." Although he succeeded.
      Evgeny Petrovich during the Civil War - a half-educated student. He completed his education in exile.
      1. lisikat2
        lisikat2 1 December 2022 17: 49
        +1
        I read that: Vadim Stepanovich selected steamboats to create the Kama flotilla, and Evgeny was his assistant. Together we decided: where and what weapons to install.
  11. Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 1 December 2022 13: 37
    +3
    for some reason called "Sevruga", they just showed it. But no Americans (as the movie song says)

    There was also such a song - "Shidarba-davydorba "Sveryuga", passengers are the public, and loaders are the people")))
    Barges (non-self-propelled), yes, were armed with 102-mm naval guns and even 152-mm howitzers.

    And even Kane's six-inch guns. For example, from the Aurora, though they were sent to Astrakhan. Interestingly, these barges, in addition to numbers, had names, moreover, rather old-fashioned ones. For example PB-4 - "Patriarch Hermogenes" request
    1. lisikat2
      lisikat2 1 December 2022 18: 02
      0
      Ivan (?), "they were sent to Astrakhan"
      At school, one of the elders said: in the Second World War, guns were removed from the Aurora for installation on the shore
      Near Peterhof, there was a gun from Aurora. The sailors managed to bury: the shutter and something else. The Germans captured it and sent it to be melted down.
      In total, they captured 3 guns from Aurora.
      I searched the internet but didn't find any information about it.
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 1 December 2022 18: 23
        +4
        Quote from lisikat2
        At school, one of the elders said: in the Second World War, guns were removed from the Aurora for installation

        These are different weapons. During the interwar period, the Aurora served as a training ship and was re-equipped with more modern 130mm guns with a 55-caliber barrel. In the Second World War, nine of them were transferred to the coastal battery with the letter "A", and the last - poop, installed on the railway platform and given to the armored train No. 7 "Baltiets".
        During the Civil War, the former guns of the cruiser, which were still on it in Tsushima, were sent to Astrakhan.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 1 December 2022 18: 51
          +3
          "Eh, you are the fate of the ship,
          You say, "Hey!
          They will answer: ... "(C)
        2. lisikat2
          lisikat2 1 December 2022 19: 27
          0
          What happened to them, letters: "A"!?
          The famous bow gun that fired in October, the Kane system?
          1. Senior seaman
            Senior seaman 1 December 2022 19: 53
            +2
            Quote from lisikat2
            What happened to them, letters: "A"!?

            Polenov did not write about this.
            Quote from lisikat2
            The famous bow gun that fired in October, the Kane system?

            Yes. Initially, there were eight of them, in 1908 two more were added, and in 1915 four more taken from the Diana were added (the latter was re-equipped with 130mm)
            1. lisikat2
              lisikat2 3 December 2022 09: 44
              0
              "didn't write" means that the version with the capture of guns is plausible?
              1. Senior seaman
                Senior seaman 3 December 2022 09: 52
                0
                Quote from lisikat2
                didn’t write, "so the version with the capture of guns is plausible?

                Well, why not? This war happened to her. It’s just that in the days of the USSR, many things were simply kept silent about.
                Agree, the gun from the Aurora captured by the Germans sounds something like ... sad
        3. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 1 December 2022 20: 21
          +3
          During the Civil War, the former guns of the cruiser, which were still on it in Tsushima, were sent to Astrakhan.

          Shirokorad (well, you understand, Ivan) in the book "The Genius of Soviet Artillery", about V.G. Grabin, wrote that the very gun that fired the shot - the signal for the start of the Great October Socialist Revolution - disappeared in the Caspian Sea, EMNIP, in 1920s How exactly it disappeared - I did not write, alas. request drinks
  12. Baker
    Baker 1 December 2022 13: 53
    +3
    The ship had four rudders at once, which were controlled with the help of two tillers.

    Here the author should not go into technical details. The tiller is not controlled by rudders. They control the steering wheel. And the tiller is a part of the steering device that turns the stock, that is, it transfers the force from the steering wheel to the steering wheel.
    1. kalibr
      1 December 2022 17: 16
      +4
      Quote from Baker
      Here the author should not go into technical details.

      There is such a book in 1927 by Shubin, the author: "Volga and Volga shipping." From there, word for word. I think it was better for him to know, because the book is very serious and informative.
      1. Baker
        Baker 1 December 2022 18: 14
        +3
        I think he should know better

        With all due respect to Ivan Aleksandrovich Shubin, as a historian, I think that he could well be mistaken in technical matters, since he had no technical education. He studied three courses at the Faculty of Philosophy of Warsaw University. In the Department of Waterways of the Volga Basin, he worked as a senior economist. It is unlikely that the structure of steamships was studied at the Faculty of Philosophy.
        1. kalibr
          1 December 2022 18: 35
          0
          I was interested in the content of the book, and not his education and place of work. And there is no other book like this one.
          1. Baker
            Baker 1 December 2022 18: 44
            +3
            Did I deny the value of the book? The book is really interesting, one might say - an encyclopedia. And no one is immune from mistakes.
            1. kalibr
              1 December 2022 18: 52
              +1
              Quote from Baker
              And no one is immune from mistakes.

              And including me.
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 1 December 2022 19: 19
              +3
              Direct splendor and dissolution in the air! Direct techies and sophistry agreed!? Just like the Starks and Lannisters!? ?
              1. Baker
                Baker 1 December 2022 19: 46
                +4
                Just like the Starks and Lannisters!

                Have you read A Song of Ice and Fire?
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 1 December 2022 19: 58
                  +2
                  Have you read A Song of Ice and Fire?

                  Forgive me for interfering, but, most likely, my friend Anton was just watching. As I. recourse However, I watched only the last season, but from the second series I already confidently remembered who was who, where and how. wink But the Lannisters are wonderful! good Especially the last scene of Cersei and Jaime. I have to say - a lot!
                  1. Baker
                    Baker 1 December 2022 20: 07
                    +4
                    I prefer books.
                    The administration with its claims to the length of the comment is tired.
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 1 December 2022 20: 14
                      +4
                      I prefer books.

                      Me too, especially on paper. hi And the old, pre-revolutionary ones - I partially print them out. There is a good selection on "runivers", well, yes, you probably know. yes
                      The administration with its claims to the length of the comment is tired.

                      Guys now just paste this message into their comment: "Your comment is too short, etc., etc.". laughing You read this very comment, and the feeling is as if they are reading the “Miranda rule” to you during detention, as in a joke:
                      - You are under arrest, you have the right to remain silent; anything you say can be used against you...
                      - Naked woman!
                      - What is a "naked woman" ???!
                      - Use a naked woman against me!
                2. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 1 December 2022 20: 00
                  +1
                  I read a little. I fundamentally do not accept Martin as a "fantasy player", Sapkowski is much closer to me. At Martin's, I appreciate "Taft" and "Harbor of the Winds."
                  1. Baker
                    Baker 1 December 2022 20: 10
                    +2
                    Sapkowski is much closer to me

                    And Moorcock?
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 2 December 2022 06: 19
                      +2
                      I read something, but this is not accurate ... In the first half of the nineties there was a publishing boom, I spent a third of my salary on books.
                3. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 1 December 2022 21: 34
                  +2
                  Was reading. But everything fell apart there. So one can only guess how history could turn.
  13. Frank Muller
    Frank Muller 2 December 2022 01: 00
    +3
    In relation to the steamer - "American" from the film "Volga - Volga". More than forty years ago, on TV (on the occasion of the fortieth anniversary of the mentioned film), there was a program dedicated to this event. It was attended by some of the surviving actors, and the creator of the film himself - G. V. Alexandrov. I remember he said that not a single suitable steamer was found for filming - by that time everyone had finished their “creative path”. I had to build a ship on the basis of a barge - a scenery, on which they filmed actions and scenes on the Sevryuga.
  14. Altmann
    Altmann 2 December 2022 22: 39
    0
    The Czech army for the first time had its own naval units. A country from the center of Europe, which has only ponds, was able to fight on ships near Kazan, but also on Baikal. I don’t get it at all, and I’m only talking about the battles of the Czechoslovaks without ideological overtones. am