The West fears the work of Russia and China to create a new payment system bypassing SWIFT

Together, the central banks of the Russian Federation and China are working to create a settlement system in national currencies, bypassing the SWIFT international payment system. This was announced by Deputy Prime Minister and former Minister of Energy of Russia Alexander Novak in his speech at the Russian-Chinese Energy Business Forum.

Work on opening accounts of Russian companies in China, as well as Chinese companies in Russia, is already being carried out by the central banks of the two countries, which will be possible due to the creation of a new payment system bypassing SWIFT

- said the Deputy Prime Minister.

Novak also stressed that settlements in national currencies are already underway between the two states with regard to the supply of gas, oil, oil products and coal. According to him, this process is extremely necessary in order to secure the status of world reserve currencies for the ruble and yuan.

Recall that after the start of the special operation in Ukraine, the West first of all disconnected a number of large Russian banks from the international financial system of money transfers SWIFT.

We also note that Russian President Vladimir Putin has repeatedly stated about the policy of de-dollarization. The head of state called this economic measure forced, because, according to him, currencies from the list of unfriendly countries have already compromised themselves, while a gradual departure from the dollar as a reserve currency will help strengthen and stimulate not only the Russian economy, but also the banking sector.

Potential participants in the new global payment system, bypassing the imposed restrictions of SWIFT, can be banks in a number of countries around the world. First of all, these are banks of the countries belonging to the BRICS group, as well as banks of the CIS countries. Settlements in national currencies in a folding situation may attract the attention of banks and companies in Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Indonesia, Myanmar, Algeria, Egypt, and a number of Latin American countries.

The West is seriously afraid that China and Russia will launch an analogue of SWIFT, which is capable of knocking out the base (the base of outright pressure and protectionism) of the entire Western politicized economy.

Comments

[place]

It is certainly not good that now all our payments for all work are monitored from the outside through the international payment system.
Under the old regime, for such things, the testicles would simply have been torn off overnight ..... God grant good luck ... if instead of the West, the Chinese will also poke their nose into all our affairs ...

[credo]

It is necessary to limit the power of the global financial "gendarme" to the ability to poke your nose into other people's affairs and wallets.
The efforts of China and Russia in this field are only welcome. The main thing is not to slow down and move in the right direction, involving all independent countries in the long overdue question of how to turn SWIFT into a regional system.

[Shurik70]

It's really weird that it's taking so long.
Apparently, the details cannot be settled in any way - the Chinese want a special position for themselves (like the USA in SWIFT), and Russia offers to be on an equal footing.
How to help the Chinese quickly agree. Maybe start selling them cheaper oil? The United States will definitely add new sanctions against China.

[bath]

How can you worry about espionage when international trade should be open and transparent?

[Zoldat_A]

Quote from: wanna

How can you worry about espionage when international trade should be open and transparent?

I recently read that in American pharmacies, for the good purpose of "optimizing the supply of medicines," not only the sales volume of each item is taken into account, but also a name base is created for all customers, based on the fact that people pay with cards.
The goal, it seems, is good - so that a regular client can always buy medicine at a pharmacy near the house, for which he is used to going there.

And I would not want any pharmacy to keep information about when and what I buy there. I don’t like it if someone can (theoretically, if necessary, for marketing purposes, for example) someone will keep track of what and where I buy products, clothes, cars ... I don’t like it when someone starts creating base on the volume, structure and geography of my expenses on a bank card.
Well, I just don't like the thought, that's all.
That's why I love cash, and I use the card only in extreme cases, where authorization is indispensable. For example, utility bills.

Of course, I do not oppose myself to all world trade, but as regards the "transparency of payments" of one individual buyer, my opinion, it seems to me, has the right to be.

[credo]

Quote: Zoldat_A

And I would not want any pharmacy to keep information about when and what I buy there. I don’t like it if someone can (theoretically, if necessary, for marketing purposes, for example) someone will keep track of what and where I buy products, clothes, cars ... I don’t like it when someone starts creating base on the volume, structure and geography of my expenses on a bank card.

Unfortunately for you and all of us, banks have been tracking our payments for a long time, and since most domestic banks have foreign shareholders, it is possible that all data about us has been collected abroad for a long time, including through the SWIFT system.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: credo

Unfortunately for you and all of us, banks have been monitoring our payments for a long time.

How do they track my cash payments? At the same gas station, at the pharmacy, at the grocery market close to home?

Yes, there are people who, in principle, do not have cash - I have one deputy who pays for a pack of cigarettes with a card, for example. He uses cheap thirty-ruble lighters (because he loses them often) - he also pays for them with a card. Soon he will forget how to count to a hundred. That's what SWIFT will track, if there is such a need. But this, I think, is from the category of the same as car owners, who, if given the opportunity, will go to the toilet by car. I also have such friends.
I'm not going to forget what cash looks like yet, and if, for example, I'm going to a store, I'll park the car a hundred meters from the entrance - but on a half-empty site. And I won’t push in a car in a crush at the very entrance to the store.

[SKVichyakow]

Quote: Zoldat_A

That's why I love cash, and I use the card only in extreme cases, where authorization is indispensable. For example, utility bills.

Pay the utility bill in cash, it is not forbidden. You will be completely invisible.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: SKVichyakow

Pay the utility bill in cash, it is not forbidden. You will be completely invisible.

For a year now, Sberbank has required a passport when paying for a communal apartment. True, the passport is not of the one who is on the receipt, but of the one who pays. My wife paid in cash with her passport, although a receipt was issued for me.
I don't know for what purpose. I asked the girls-operators - they don't know either.

[sifgame]

In order to become invisible, you need to give up mobile communications and live in the forest, as there are cameras everywhere.

[Alexey RA]

Quote from: wanna

How can you worry about espionage when international trade should be open and transparent?

Forgot to add "for the USA".

[iouris]

"Worried"!
The rest of the "West" world sees it as its colonial possessions. That's what the uprising is against

[avg]

Yes sir. Leave Pax Americana in the past. Now it is relevant "We will build our new world ..."

[Peter1First]

This is understandable, but they are worried not so much about the "opaqueness" of other people's trade transactions, but more about the fact that this will lead to a decrease in the volume of Western money supply in international settlements, and then all their money emission will cause inflation in their own countries!

[svp67]

The Americans managed to "compress" our Mir payment system, God forbid that this new system would have a happier fate

[Vladimir80]

first we were "hooked" on the dollar by the United States, now the Chinese are "hooked" on the yuan ... but our top like it! all the talk about trade - how can we continue to sell (!) the remnants of national wealth ... there is no talk about "buying technology", the most important thing is to "sell" ... a nation of great scientists, writers, inventors has turned into a nation of "sold out" .. .

[stelltok]

how can we continue to sell (!) the remnants of national wealth ... there is no talk about "buying technology",

So no one will sell.
Russia wanted to buy a machine from the Dutch ASML in the 2000s.
Refused to sell.
The Chinese also refuse to sell their high-tech machines.

the most important thing is to "sell" ... the nation of great scientists, writers, inventors has turned into a nation of "sold" ...

Everyone is selling something.
The era of capitalism. She is like that.
The only question is how much labor is there.
China has a lot. It is difficult to compete with China.

[Alexey RA]

Quote from stelltok

So no one will sell.
Russia wanted to buy a machine from the Dutch ASML in the 2000s.
Refused to sell.

Back in the USSR - KOCOM and all that...
Although no, in those days the Union could give so much money that military foothold of US imperialism in Asia through the state arms corporation of a NATO member country, delivered to the USSR products that should never have been in the hands of the Soviets. And when this deal surfaced, it turned out that this was not a one-time case, but an already established chain.

[kor1vet1974]

The West is seriously afraid

And he does the right thing, that he fears. Do not rejoice at him.

[Starover_Z]

And what will the new system be based on, which of the currencies and how will they be combined?
Will they take a new conventional unit and digitize it?

[Dilettante grandfather]

Why do you need a single conventional unit? Settlements in national currencies should not be linked to any other currency. There is gold, for example. And its price is in rubles or yuan. And based on this price, mutual settlement is quite normal.

[Cube123]

Quote: Grandfather is an amateur

There is gold, for example. And its price is in rubles or yuan.

The price of gold is set in London, and the price in rubles and yuan is set through cross-rates with the dollar. So this option = "an awl on the soap."

[Dilettante grandfather]

The price of gold is set in London,

Forget about London already. The price of gold was set with us some time ago. In rubles, not in pounds/euro/dollars. And it is on the basis of this price that mutual settlements are carried out.

[Cube123]

In addition to yourself, your counterparties should also recognize your price, but this is already a matter of trust, and a long-term one at that. And oh, it's not easy.

[Dilettante grandfather]

Right. Since mutual settlements with a number of countries are already carried out in national currencies, this condition is met. And what is wrong with that, in your opinion? And why the hell again remember the capital of a small island nation?

[tralflot1832]

It’s so interesting with the yuan exchange rate there. But the PRC does not obey the United States. It plays like Japan once played with the USA. They had funny battles in the 90s. I still remember how the United States screamed when the Japanese devalued the yen. They spat on it and just bought politicians.

[Fisherman]

In addition ... More interesting news: "China, India, Brazil, Russia and the countries of the Eurasian Economic Union are discussing the creation of a universal payment system for the EAEU and BRICS countries to replace the Western SWIFT. It is expected that it will unite the national systems of China (Union Pay), India (RuPay), Brazil (Elo) and the EAEU states (MIR, Belkart, etc.) The project is expected to be implemented by 2025. It will make the participating countries financially independent from the West, which has frozen Russian and Afghan gold and foreign exchange reserves, showing the unreliability of their system."

[Horon]

The West fears the work of Russia and China to create a new payment system bypassing SWIFT

Naturally, it is afraid, because in addition to the convenience of users, it is also financial intelligence, it is a means of income for its owners and it is a lever for putting pressure on its users. It is strange that someone considers such systems to be something neutral and created in a fit of altruism.

[Witcher]

Well, finally, are we really going to get rid of this SWIFT and this abbreviation, otherwise since the age of 14 they have been threatening to disconnect SWIFT from this. although for me that SWIFT and MasterCard are something incomprehensible and distant. who pays the commission for MIR who for MasterCard and why it is better to use MIR when the money is on the account and you can pick it up without a card and without a payment system, and even get a card with a different payment system in the bank.

[Zadok]

that everyone with this swift is worn like a written sack? Well, have you turned it off? Have you stopped making payments? well, imagine that instead of a picture on whatsapp you had to send a fax. found the problem...

[Shket53]

Well, if this payment system works in 2023-24 ... and if the banks of Saudi Arabia and other countries join it, it will be a serious penal in the ass of the Yankees, this system will be worse than any weapon. Then I watch the Yankees go berserk ... Well, God forbid that it works

[K-50]

The West fears the work of Russia and China to create a new payment system bypassing SWIFT

Who is your doctor?
SWIFT themselves began to be used as a weapon of political pressure, as a sanctions lever.
So Russia and China decided to abandon it.
They would not show off and everything would still go on in the old way.
But you want greatness and significance, so use the "broken plate".

[al3x]

Until our financial bloc changes, one can not even dream of any independence of our banking sector. All these initiatives will simply be sabotaged constantly. This, I think, in the same China, they are well aware and are thinking about whether they need such an indecisive partner. Where money is spinning, it is not customary to mention friendship.

[Ilgizl]

Everything we have is forced because of the pressure. We do not want to develop independently as during the union.

[Tagan]

SWIFT is not actually a payment system.

[Tagan]

Quote: al3x

Until our financial bloc changes, one can not even dream of any independence of our banking sector. All these initiatives will simply be sabotaged constantly. This, I think, in the same China, they are well aware and are thinking about whether they need such an indecisive partner. Where money is spinning, it is not customary to mention friendship.

It depends on what you understand by the independence of the banking sector. Our own electronic payment system has long been functioning within Russia.

[Tagan]

Quote: Sadok

that everyone with this swift is worn like a written sack? Well, have you turned it off? Have you stopped making payments? well, imagine that instead of a picture on whatsapp you had to send a fax. found the problem...

Many people simply do not understand the difference between SWIFT and payment systems, including thanks to all sorts of "experts" who also do not understand this, but write articles on this topic))

[evgen1221]

But China doesn’t really want to revive the Sev 2.0 system, and trade in the dollar is good for him. Apparently they are afraid of losing their market and access to technology.

[balabol]

Indeed, none of the writers on the topic of SWIFT can reasonably talk about this system.
First of all, it is a worthy banking instrument, no more and no less. Technically quite simple. In a bank, these are two servers that duplicate each other and a communication line. The servers have special software (this is a Swift product) that provides message encoding. In the center is a server with a clearing program that provides accounting for mutual transactions. (This is extremely simplified).
By sending a message about the transfer, the bank informs that it is debiting a certain amount from the balance, and the receiving bank has the right, on the basis of a "swift", to carry out the receipt of funds in the balance.
A bank, joining SWIFT, buys a certified set of equipment and software whose main function is encryption. Then a monthly payment and payments from each transaction are made.
What the bank receives is the right to carry out a credit transaction, insurance of the transaction. In the event of a discrepancy in the balances of banks, they do not deal with each other, but with SWIFT. It is both convenient and reliable.
The bank is insured against losses in case of failure or fraud in the transfer of payment information.
Banks are ready to work with any system if it is cheaper in terms of payments, as well as reliable and convenient.
Yes, by the way, before SWIFT, domestic banks organized such transfers using teletype.
Conclusion: we need a certain level of services of the new system in the criteria "no worse than SWIFT", a reasonable fee for the use and the level of interbank transfers that pay off these costs.
There is nothing on these issues in any of the articles. And without this, you can endlessly crush water in a mortar.

[shurik-063]

Since the West is afraid, then we are doing everything right!

[Yaroslav the Wise]

The new payment system is good. The point is small - to finalize it and implement it as soon as possible. If only it didn't work out the way it did with the bridge over the Amur between China and Russia. This is when from the Chinese side the bridge was ready by 50-60 percent, along with access roads, and from our side only ..... papers for the construction of the bridge and roads were ready. Therefore, the bridge was opened not ten years ago, but only this year.