American edition: Armed Forces of Ukraine shelled Zmeiny Island with the help of Caesar self-propelled guns mounted on barges

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American edition: Armed Forces of Ukraine shelled Zmeiny Island with the help of Caesar self-propelled guns mounted on barges

The Ukrainian military bombarded Zmeiny Island, when it was controlled by Russian troops, with French Caesar self-propelled howitzers, despite the fact that the firing range of this artillery mount did not allow this. The New York Times writes about it.

According to the American publication, which refers to the Ukrainian military, Kyiv set the task of the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to recapture Serpent Island from the Russian army. It was impossible to do this without artillery support, but with aviation the APU was not very good, and the Russians shot down everything that approached the island. At the same time, there are no self-propelled artillery mounts in service with the Ukrainian army that can reach Zmeiny. However, a solution was found.



As reported, the Caesar self-propelled guns, transferred to Kyiv by France, were chosen for the strikes. The firing range of this system is 40 km, and it was all 50 km to the island. It is not known who came up with this idea, but the installations were loaded onto the deck of barges and towed into the sea closer to Serpentine, from where they fired. It is noted that the French howitzers for strikes from the side of barges were not chosen by chance, this self-propelled guns have the least recoil and greater stability when fired.

To shell Russian positions on Zmeiny Island, the Ukrainians put Caesar self-propelled guns with a range of 40 kilometers on barges and towed them 10 kilometers to hit the island, which was 50 kilometers away

- writes the edition.

It is impossible to say now how it really was, but it is possible to assume that the fire on the island was really fired from barges at sea. Although this method of artillery strikes raises many questions.
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    1. +18
      27 November 2022 14: 58
      Was the barge at least drowned or never seen?
      1. +12
        27 November 2022 15: 03
        yes, this is the main question
        1. +12
          27 November 2022 15: 41
          Once again he speaks of the need to strengthen our orbital satellite constellation .. You need to see and listen to everything, everywhere, as far as possible and at any time of the day .. hi
          1. +4
            27 November 2022 15: 51
            And it also suggests that large-caliber artillery ships are quite suitable for use now and in the near future.
            Missiles, of course, are good and long-range, only shells cost a hundred times cheaper, and you can take them to the port ten times more than missiles. If there is an opportunity to approach the distance of the shot, the artillery ship near the coast will make a big rustle.
            1. 0
              27 November 2022 16: 19
              The task was very specific.
              Small island in the neutral zone.
              An artillery ship attacking targets on a normally protected coast is still a pleasure.
              On the island, apparently, they did not expect shelling ...
              1. +4
                27 November 2022 16: 33
                Quote: Alex777
                An artillery ship attacking targets on a normally protected coast is still a pleasure.

                The attack of a "Normally protected" object is generally always the same crap and losses. Not only at sea, but everywhere. If not in people and equipment, then in expensive ammunition, which is always in short supply.
                But in the war there are many "not too" protected or completely defenseless, but worthy targets. And having discovered them, it is not uncommon to regret that at the moment there is nothing to hit with.
                1. +1
                  27 November 2022 19: 48
                  Quote: Shurik70
                  But in the war there are many "not too" protected or completely defenseless, but worthy targets. And having discovered them, it is not uncommon to regret that at the moment there is nothing to hit with.

                  I myself have nostalgia for artillery ships. wink
                  Somehow even, with colleagues on Morskoy, I tried to come up with
                  what such a ship might look like in our time.
                  The artillery unit was eventually chosen from the Coalition.
                  A larger caliber did not give a suitable range.
                  Colleagues eventually rolled down to the battleships, as the last ships perfect for their time.
                  A large number of artillery towers led to
                  damage in the deployment of air defense, missile defense and helicopters.
                  And for the sake of one or two towers, it turned out that there was not much
                  meaning "fence the garden."
                  The issue of protection against Lancet raids remained undiscussed ... hi
                  1. +1
                    28 November 2022 18: 42
                    Remember tanks.
                    At first, they also made multi-towered mobile fortresses. They were also proud: "and we have as many as five towers and eight machine guns, not counting the loopholes."
                    But in the end they came to one tank - one gun of the maximum caliber.
                    I think a dozen sea boats with one closed rotary turret with anti-fragmentation armor against one 10-gun battleship will do it. And the cost and maintenance will be cheaper.
                    1. +1
                      28 November 2022 20: 58
                      Quote: Shurik70
                      I think a dozen sea boats with one closed rotary turret with anti-fragmentation armor against one 10-gun battleship will do it. And the cost and maintenance will be cheaper.

                      Not so simple.
                      Do not put an armadillo caliber on a boat.
                      BC will not be the same. Air defense will be weak.
                      In the means of detection, the armadillo is incomparable.
                      Its range is significantly higher.
                      Restrictions on waves at sea, etc., etc. wink
                      Z.Y. 5 Georgian boats were already on the attack.
                      1. +1
                        29 November 2022 17: 57
                        Here I have to agree.
                        Large caliber for a large ship.
                        But boats should not be written off. At their speeds, it is possible to get closer to the armadillo, leveling the difference in the range of destruction, quickly.
                        1. 0
                          29 November 2022 20: 50
                          An air defense missile from an armadillo will be faster anyway.
                          The radar antennas of the armadillo are located higher, and therefore the detection range is longer. hi
                        2. +1
                          30 November 2022 18: 34
                          Since the transmitting and receiving antennas are nearby on the ship, it will be detected by one radar radiation before it sees something with its radar.
                          This is in ground-based air defense, the emitter, receiver and launcher can be separated by a dozen kilometers. And even noticing the emitter, where the launcher will not know. And on the ship everything is close.
                        3. 0
                          30 November 2022 19: 11
                          Quote: Shurik70
                          Since the transmitting and receiving antennas are nearby on the ship, it will be detected by one radar radiation before it sees something with its radar.

                          What about passive AFARs? wink
                        4. 0
                          30 November 2022 19: 40
                          For a passive antenna, you still need a signal source (this is exactly what they do in ground-based air defense).
                          If the ship is part of a squadron, the emitter can work on one ship, the rest work only for reception, but still, there must be at least one source.
                          Such antennas that work from background radiation, so far only exist in theory. There, a supercomputer is needed to decode the signal in real time.
                        5. 0
                          30 November 2022 21: 18
                          I read that a passive antenna detects targets over 300 km. True air.
              2. 0
                28 November 2022 01: 36
                And what did they expect during the war? lol And where was our intelligence and our guards? feel request
            2. +3
              28 November 2022 06: 22
              only shells cost a hundred times cheaper

              Offhand can also be called:

              + short response time to a call

              + arta immunity to weather conditions

              + immunity to air defense - even if one projectile is shot down, another one will fly next
          2. +3
            27 November 2022 17: 37
            Evil 55 Why from space? Wouldn't the submarine's hydrophone hear that "They were shooting ...". And take care to stop this occupation?
      2. +16
        27 November 2022 15: 05
        We must pay tribute to the enemy, as they say, the need for inventions is cunning. If indeed that was the case.
        1. +9
          27 November 2022 15: 12
          The New York Times will not let you lie) Honest Crane.
          1. +15
            27 November 2022 15: 21
            American edition: Armed Forces of Ukraine shelled Zmeiny Island with the help of Caesar self-propelled guns mounted on barges
            Today, 14: 49
            I don’t believe in these nonsense ... pitching, lateral, keel ...
            1. +9
              27 November 2022 15: 37
              Like fishing from a rubber boat to a feeder tackle, it is impossible to keep the line taut. And there are generally a lot of questions, are they, these shells of these howitzers, what, with laser guidance or how to install and hold the sight ??? Unclear.
              1. 0
                28 November 2022 01: 42
                Yes, we already know! Yes America planned everything. Well, that's all. hi stop
            2. +3
              27 November 2022 16: 18
              I don’t believe in these nonsense ... pitching, lateral, keel ...

              Well, the allies want to support their vassals. They want to attribute victories, genius, special cunning to hohlam.
            3. +5
              27 November 2022 16: 50
              Maybe they acted on the principle of "the main participation, not the result." Shooting doesn't mean hitting.
            4. +1
              28 November 2022 06: 26
              I don’t believe in these nonsense ... pitching, lateral, keel ...

              Pitching…

              The simplest controls for ship artillery, which, despite pitching, closed the circuit and fired only at a certain elevation angle, were created back in the XNUMXth century.

              Shipbuilders and gunsmiths attended to this issue in the first place, otherwise there would be no dreadnoughts
              1. 0
                28 November 2022 09: 28
                Quote: Santa Fe
                The simplest controls for ship art,
                Yes Yes..
                If they drove 2 tanks onto the barge, they could call it a cruiser ..
                Is the hull armored? Yes!
                Caliber matches?? yes!
                Armor towers? Yes!
                Turn? Yes!
                And even a partial armored deck in the form of tank contours would be
                Poured cruiser and not a barge ...
                lol
        2. +5
          27 November 2022 15: 54
          It causes a very large number of questions. Was it in a dead calm? Mnp it seems that this is bullshit.
          1. +1
            28 November 2022 09: 00
            Of course nonsense. 80 years ago they shot 40 kilometers from ships. But these technologies are lost. Together with the laser grinders of the ancient Egyptians.
            1. 0
              28 November 2022 13: 07
              There, the accuracy left much to be desired. And the plane is a spotter and shoot for half a day to "hit"
              1. 0
                28 November 2022 14: 16
                Well, the computing power was 3 orders of magnitude weaker + they fired on the go for tens of kilometers at a moving and maneuvering target, which was much smaller than the island. I am already silent about the fact that these were ordinary shells, there was no talk about correction.
      3. AAK
        +1
        27 November 2022 19: 57
        Most likely, the shelling was carried out from Romanian terrorists ... attack ours - then in the press there is already a photo of a damaged vessel without any self-propelled guns and a comment - "the Russian military fired at a peaceful Romanian barge ..." And about the lack of a group of large UAVs and satellites - this is the most a point, if our UAVs in the size of a "global hawk" hung on the borders with the tervods of the same Bulgarians or gypsies - from there not a single macaque would have fired either a rocket or a cannon ...
        1. +1
          28 November 2022 01: 51
          Yes, it's time for drones!
          As many as 10 or even more NATO companies (supposedly mercenaries) are fighting with us. What are we waiting for????? recourse We are being criticized right and left. All you have to do is win! Winners are not judged!!!!! wink
      4. 0
        28 November 2022 09: 09
        And were they? They can say anything, especially they
    2. +11
      27 November 2022 15: 02
      How can you accurately shoot from a barge on the high seas when rolling??????????
      1. +5
        27 November 2022 15: 08
        If the shells are adjustable (guided), then it will be expensive, but possible.
      2. +9
        27 November 2022 15: 08
        I also think it's fake. They would not have hit the island, but the barge, together with the self-propelled guns, crew and crew, would have guaranteed to go to the bottom.
      3. 0
        27 November 2022 15: 30
        See what the goal is. If you get somewhere, then yes, there may be problems. And if the task is to shell the island, then there are no difficulties.
      4. -2
        27 November 2022 15: 32
        Quote: Roman Efremov
        How can you accurately shoot from a barge on the high seas when rolling??????????

        Even in the century before last, the artillery of ships coped with these problems, and now, with one bright head, a bunch of affordable gadgets with various software and a few handy hard workers, I think you can "on your knee" bung up a profit that will allow you to shoot self-propelled guns at the exact moment you need. There would be a desire and opportunities.
      5. -2
        27 November 2022 15: 54
        Quote: Roman Efremov
        How can you accurately shoot from a barge on the high seas when rolling??????????

        Why shoot accurately at this patch of land? Constant fire on the squares leading to losses in l / s and equipment, and the RA herself left the Serpent, so as not to incur senseless losses.
        1. +2
          27 November 2022 17: 20
          For this purpose, long-range MLRS from the coast are more suitable than some howitzers on a barge (what nonsense !!!).
          As for Snake Island, I wrote here back in the summer that its occupation was a XNUMX% propaganda campaign and did not pursue any military goals. When it became clear that this piece of land brings us nothing but problems, they left it. By the way, the Ukrainians are not in a hurry to occupy it - they understand everything .............................................. ..
          1. +2
            27 November 2022 21: 55
            Ukrainians do not need it - it is important for them that there are no Russian military there.
          2. 0
            28 November 2022 01: 57
            He could make up for the electronic warfare, which we lost after the destruction of the cruiser Moscow. But !…. Not Shmogli! winked winked winked laughing
      6. +1
        27 November 2022 17: 46
        They could shoot from the mouth of the Danube without going out to sea.
        There, the floodplains cover the low-draft barge - only from above you can detect it.
      7. +1
        28 November 2022 06: 34
        How can you accurately shoot from a barge on the high seas when rolling??????????

        Do you think armadillos fired in the 19th century?
        1. 0
          28 November 2022 09: 34
          Quote: Santa Fe
          How can you accurately shoot from a barge on the high seas when rolling??????????

          Do you think armadillos fired in the 19th century?

          The length of the armadillo guns was slightly shorter than this barge ....
    3. +5
      27 November 2022 15: 13
      The "Great Peremoga" of Kyiv is overgrown with new heroic legends and myths. laughing
    4. +1
      27 November 2022 15: 21
      so it is necessary to sink all the barges !!!!!!!! so that no one could leave Ukraine!
    5. The comment was deleted.
      1. +1
        28 November 2022 02: 05
        In Ukraine, every fart is zrada! (Srada)
        Plebeians and infantile savages. laughing laughing Yes
    6. +4
      27 November 2022 15: 28
      It is noted that the French howitzers for strikes from the side of barges were not chosen by chance, this self-propelled guns have the least recoil and greater stability when fired

      A very dubious claim. By definition, a wheeled SAO cannot have greater stability than an SAO on a tracked base of the Krab type, or even more so the PzH 2000, which are also in service with the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
    7. +2
      27 November 2022 15: 29
      No, well, if you take a barge 200-250 meters long, then in principle why not, technically feasible, I guess. But - firstly - according to my information, there are no such boats there, and secondly, it is quite difficult to pull such a fool into the sea, and even more difficult to do it unnoticed. In short, I do not believe.
      1. +2
        27 November 2022 16: 54
        well, if you take a barge 200-250 meters long
        , pull it partially ashore, then ... the howitzer will be 190-240 meters closer to the target. Something like this )))))
    8. +3
      27 November 2022 15: 30
      Complete nonsense. Risking expensive self-propelled guns for such an adventure. Plus, after the first shelling, what should the enemy think? That the shelling is coming from Ukrainian battleships? laughing
      It’s good that they haven’t written yet that they shot from under the water)
      1. +2
        27 November 2022 16: 56
        The next story will be about hanging howitzers to an airplane or a balloon)))))
        1. +1
          27 November 2022 17: 43
          So the M777 was originally designed for suspension laughing It remains for little - also shoot in a hanging position laughing
    9. +8
      27 November 2022 15: 31
      That is, the range at Caesar 40 (is this the maximum speed?) It turns out on a slow-moving barge, they push it 10 km into the sea (that is, to the edge of reach) they hit on Serpentine, ours don’t understand where the direction of shelling from V. S. Russia comes from and these floating batteries calmly return back, and everything that flies to the Snake, as we remember, gets lost on the approach, yeah, of course. I want to remind you that in those days the Armed Forces of Ukraine were not rich in victories and snickering over imported weapons, and therefore every episode of this kind was filmed for history. And here is not a video, not a photo, yeah, of course. Although yesterday the enti "heroes" talked about how they "filled up" a missile from the S-300 complex from the DShK, so that the Munchausen business is alive and well.
    10. The comment was deleted.
    11. -2
      27 November 2022 16: 03
      In theory, this is possible. If it looks stupid but works, then it's not stupid. laughing So then, you can load the tank, the only thing is the expediency of such an idea. It certainly sounds more like a bike.
    12. +1
      27 November 2022 16: 09
      In fact, as it was mentioned then, these shellings were regular, which forced the Russian command to leave Serpentine. The same number with a barge could go well once, well, twice. Some sort of desa. Perhaps other systems or special ammunition were used. By the way, why did the Americans decide to throw everything at Caesars? Something is dark here.
      1. 0
        27 November 2022 21: 52
        If they fired from the mouth of the Danube, then we would have to answer by actually shooting at the border of Ukraine with Romania.
    13. -1
      27 November 2022 16: 23
      The main question is whether the Russian Federation has a Black Sea Fleet?
      1. -6
        27 November 2022 16: 28
        Krasnoznamenny has no time to deal with nonsense. Parade on the nose.
      2. +1
        27 November 2022 19: 18
        It is as it is, but its parasite must be strengthened, as it turned out.
        Before, we didn't know about it. Vigorous .... only now it turned out ...
        Eat pound. hi
        For that, give us the avians! ...
        They gave you AV. The flagman was drowned in between times. To vigorously. Fucking strategists...
    14. +3
      27 November 2022 16: 50
      Guys, we disperse, 36 km from the islands in the Danube Delta to Serpentine. It is possible that barges were used to transfer self-propelled guns to the islands.
    15. 0
      27 November 2022 17: 16
      If they ran aground somewhere, used corrective projectiles, then it is possible. Without this, it was enough to dig a trench.
    16. +1
      27 November 2022 17: 55
      Haven't we seen these barges on the high seas? Not at all?
    17. 0
      27 November 2022 18: 55
      And why did they fire, if, as I know, our people left the island half a year ago ?!.
      What's going on guys anyway?!...
    18. +1
      27 November 2022 19: 14
      We must again land on Serpentine. Put S-300V4 and Pantsir-S. Plus the latest Tornado-S. And every single day, meticulously fuck....it Odessa. They will try to sink them on barges along with the Caesars.
      1. +4
        27 November 2022 21: 10
        So it is, so it is, of course. But unexpectedly, well, very unexpectedly, it turned out that there were no sufficient cargo-lifting landing ships, especially those equipped with cranes for unloading equipment. From the boats of the "Dugong" type, then to the reviews from the press, the naval ones refused with the last effort, and they refused. But even on the Dugongs there is no crane.
        1. +2
          27 November 2022 21: 34
          All this is sad. There is no end to the work for our industry. And it should have started yesterday.
      2. +1
        27 November 2022 21: 55
        There were already "Shells". We had to bomb them ourselves so that the enemy would not get it.
    19. 0
      27 November 2022 21: 52
      the installations were loaded onto the deck of barges and towed into the sea closer to Serpentine, from where they fired

      Hard to believe. When firing, the barge will swing strongly, no accuracy. You can rather believe that the barge was used to deliver self-propelled guns to the Danube Delta - you can find a platform on the shore, but there are no roads there. From there, it is even less than 40 km to the Serpentine.
    20. 0
      27 November 2022 23: 16
      I once saw a video from Chinese exercises, they screwed an artillery howitzer of the D-20 type to the deck with braces on a barge and fired from it. The accuracy is unknown, but technically there are no special obstacles for this. And those who are outraged about the accuracy of shooting - damn it, well, somehow our ancestors until the beginning of the 20th century fired at very decent distances from naval artillery using conventional hand-held rangefinders without any stabilizers. Even with a level like a saucer with a border, you can catch the moment of firing a shot, I’m not talking about more modern systems
      1. 0
        28 November 2022 09: 39
        Quote: kamakama
        our ancestors, until the beginning of the 20th century, fired at very decent distances from naval artillery using conventional hand-held rangefinders without any stabilizers.
        principle - shoot in that direction ...
        And wildly rejoiced at 2 hits for b / c?
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. 0
            28 November 2022 13: 38
            Quote: kamakama
            So there is nothing fantastically difficult.

            Are you seriously joking?
            Take the first barge that comes across, wrap artu with wire there and get - "Dreadnought" ???!!!
            Won ...

            You need to submit a proposal to the Russian Navy - rivet a thousand small barges, put a thousand tanks there (which already have a stabilizer !!!) and get a thousand coastal defense ships - moreover, armored ones !!
            1. 0
              28 November 2022 14: 08
              https://www.geopolitika.ru/news/kitay-nachal-besprecedentnye-ucheniya-s-boevymi-strelbami-vokrug-tayvanya
              Behold, unbelieving Thomas. Unfortunately, we will not see data on efficiency, but the fact is there. And this is not the first such photo.
              1. +1
                28 November 2022 14: 38
                Quote: kamakama
                Unfortunately, we will not see data on the effectiveness

                I don’t know what kind of self-propelled guns are on this barge, but I know for sure that when fired from 2S3, the ground trembles violently underfoot.
                I want you to believe in their effectiveness - believe
    21. ASM
      0
      28 November 2022 02: 17
      And why were they shelling an empty island?
    22. 0
      28 November 2022 07: 57
      If this is true, then things in the army are very bad.
    23. 0
      28 November 2022 12: 07
      At the same time, not a single barge was drowned. 10 km from the coast - a lone barge, this is a target in a children's shooting range! You can’t instantly relocate it, you can’t hide it in greenery, you don’t need to look for it with drones - it’s in full view on the radar screens!
      Therefore, the only sane version is the one that was shot from Romanian territory ... that's why ours could not answer. But then the big question arises - why weren't strikes from the territory of NATO countries recorded? Is it because it's scary to admit it?
    24. 0
      28 November 2022 15: 40
      Crap 100%. Starting from the fact that the barge would be seen on radars and ending with the fact that land artillery will not provide the necessary accuracy in roll / roll conditions, this requires a marine FCS
    25. -1
      28 November 2022 18: 46
      The main question is what is Snake Island and what is its significance. If we recall the media reports of that time (March - May), then this was the umbilical cord of humanity. Today, many are wondering if it was so important that for the sake of it we lost the Moskva GRKR and five more units of the Black Sea Fleet, as well as a certain number of aircraft and helicopters, not to mention the losses in personnel (sailors, marines, air defense officers and pilots ), then why was it handed over on the same day? And from that day on, the island disappeared from the media of the Russian Federation, as if it had been drowned. If it was not important and not needed, then why was the whole general personally steering the unloading of the ZRPK from the barge? About who answered for this is ridiculous in fact. When the Black Sea Fleet is subordinate not to the Main Headquarters of the Navy in St. Petersburg, not to the General Staff in Moscow, but to the headquarters of the district in Rostov, then I would not be surprised if some infantry general gave the order to use the flagship against an island measuring 200 by 400 m. Well, he was not told that there were still submarines in the Black Sea Fleet.

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