Military Review

Russian Armed Forces carried out a series of strikes on targets in Chuguev and Kramatorsk

96
Russian Armed Forces carried out a series of strikes on targets in Chuguev and Kramatorsk

The Russian Armed Forces continue to strike at critical facilities and systems of Ukraine, a series of explosions sounded in the Kharkiv region, in particular in Chuguev. Arrivals are confirmed by Ukrainian resources.


According to the information available at the moment, ours launched strikes from the territory of the Belgorod region, it was from there that there were reports of missile launches, presumably by the Iskander OTRK. It is not yet known what targets are being hit, but with a high probability ours are again working on the reserves of the Armed Forces of Ukraine transferred to Chuguev, possibly on mercenaries. There are many Polish "wild geese" in the vicinity of the city. In the Kharkiv region, and indeed in the eastern regions of Ukraine, an air alert has been declared.

By the way, over the past two weeks, more than 500 wounded Vushniks, some of them mercenaries, have been received by Chuguev’s medical institutions. About a hundred are very heavy, there are not enough medicines, they can not be pulled out. In the morgue there are a lot of bodies of mercenaries, the same Poles, they have heavy losses.

There was also information that ours hit the military facilities of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Kramatorsk, while they report one, but a very powerful explosion. Judging by the video that appeared on Ukrainian resources, a rocket or other high-precision weapon hit a building, as debris flew into the air, after which smoke and a dust cloud appeared. The mayor's office of Kramatorsk confirmed the fact of the arrival of the rocket, saying that there were no casualties. And the mayor of the city Alexander Goncharenko himself claims that he arrived at some kind of "medical infrastructure facility", in which there was no one at the time of the impact.

Earlier, the Ministry of Defense reported that over the past day, more than 300 foreign mercenaries, most of whom arrived in Ukraine from Poland, were destroyed by high-precision missiles near Kharkov and Slavyansk.
96 comments
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  1. Leshak
    Leshak 25 November 2022 19: 59
    +20
    In the morgue there are a lot of bodies of mercenaries, the same Poles, they have heavy losses.

    And it's very, very good! good
    1. Nexcom
      Nexcom 25 November 2022 20: 01
      +4
      Wear them intolerant (c) folk
      1. Myths
        Myths 25 November 2022 20: 21
        +4
        Good hits.

        Have you already met these tambourine aces Goering?

        Yes sir. They burn for a sweet soul .. (c)
      2. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 25 November 2022 20: 31
        +13
        The Military Informant has a video of Kramatorsk, even without slowing down it is clear that this is a shell from Tornado S, 00mm with a high-explosive part. hi
        1. Myths
          Myths 25 November 2022 20: 47
          +7
          The corrective projectile for tornadoes, apparently, went into action, and this is really stronger than the Hymars.
          1. tralflot1832
            tralflot1832 25 November 2022 21: 00
            +4
            The projectile deliberately slowed down for a selfie. drinks
            1. Real Pilot
              Real Pilot 25 November 2022 22: 07
              +6
              Pinch feathers to "wild geese" ...
              And stuffed with lead apples!
        2. Pantsuy
          Pantsuy 26 November 2022 03: 22
          +3
          Quote: tralflot1832
          even without slowing down, it is clear that this is a shell from Tornado S, 00mm with a high-explosive part.

          Do the right thing, logically and practically. I did not understand why Iskanders should be spent on objects in Kharkov or Chuguev? The entire "Tornado" or "Tornado S" perfectly cope with this task.
    2. Godzila
      Godzila 25 November 2022 20: 07
      +19
      Quote: Leshak
      In the morgue there are a lot of bodies of mercenaries, the same Poles, they have heavy losses.

      And it's very, very good! good

      I am very pleased with the impact on the western outskirts of Lvov, etc. There you need to beat everything out to the fullest .. And methodically!
      This is enemy territory and a buffer is needed in front of NATO so that there is nothing significant there for 600 km, etc. hi
      1. al3x
        al3x 25 November 2022 20: 18
        +14
        There, in general, an uninhabited exclusion zone would ideally be needed. So that any movement is fixed and neutralized. Well, or at worst, the farms are dilapidated without any serious industry and infrastructure.
        1. Chem1st
          Chem1st 25 November 2022 20: 21
          +9
          Sobsno, before the Soviet regime everything was there. Farms and from the whole industry - wholesale moonshining.
          1. al3x
            al3x 25 November 2022 20: 47
            +4
            So let them recreate industrial moonshine again, and the Soviet legacy is harmful and destructive for them. Let them eat gorilka better. laughing
          2. Alexander Salenko
            Alexander Salenko 26 November 2022 11: 30
            -2
            Not quite so, Lviv is a beautiful Polish city, the musketeers were filmed there and this is such a piece of Europe or something. But such cities as Lutsk, well, there is only Lubart's castle, Vladimir-Volynsky, a village by the village, Novovolynsk is a mining town at all, and Lviv is a representative city. There really was no urban culture. Previous carriers moved 70 years ago.
            1. Chem1st
              Chem1st 26 November 2022 14: 00
              0
              It was about industry. What does the beauty of the Middle Ages have to do with it?
              1. Alexander Salenko
                Alexander Salenko 29 November 2022 09: 00
                0
                No, no, it was about cities, here Lviv is a beautiful city, you saw it in musketeers.
        2. Godzila
          Godzila 25 November 2022 20: 37
          +6
          Quote: al3x
          There, in general, an uninhabited exclusion zone would ideally be needed. So that any movement is fixed and neutralized. Well, or at worst, the farms are dilapidated without any serious industry and infrastructure.

          That's exactly what I think and I'm sure not only me, but also the General Staff ..
          But politicians, everyone is waiting for something (fifth column)
          It is useless to negotiate, only wet methodically
          Our 8 years endured and hoped but all in vain
        3. Incvizitor
          Incvizitor 26 November 2022 00: 35
          -3
          Ideally, the west needs a radioactive desert.
          1. al3x
            al3x 26 November 2022 01: 29
            +2
            Yes, you, dear, truly reincarnated inquisitor) do not share such views. Let humanity remember better and, perhaps, someday condemn the only state whose history has been stained for centuries by the use of atomic weapons against the human race and indeed against life as such.
        4. Vladimir-78
          Vladimir-78 27 November 2022 14: 22
          0
          There is our writer, Kontorovich. He has the work "Wild Field", which fully paints a similar scenario. Between Russia and Geyropa, the territory where farms and gangs live.
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 25 November 2022 20: 20
        +8
        Quote from godzila
        I am very pleased with the impact on the western outskirts of Lvov, etc.

        This is good, but mercenaries from Poland are now on the front line, it's not bad when they are accepted by the earth. And then you can deal with those.
        1. Godzila
          Godzila 25 November 2022 20: 44
          +10
          Quote: tihonmarine
          Quote from godzila
          I am very pleased with the impact on the western outskirts of Lvov, etc.

          This is good, but mercenaries from Poland are now on the front line, it's not bad when they are accepted by the earth. And then you can deal with those.

          No one is taken prisoner from these and those
          There is Denazification on the line of defense! They are driven and driven by columns
          P, S, It's still better than later catching them in caches all over the outskirts, as after the 45th (Khrushchev then released them all, oooh) Now we are disentangling with blood.
        2. cat Rusich
          cat Rusich 25 November 2022 21: 09
          +8
          Quote: tihonmarine
          Quote from godzila
          I am very pleased with the impact on the western outskirts of Lvov, etc.

          This is good, but mercenaries from Poland are now on the front line, it's not bad when they are accepted by the earth. And then you can deal with those.
          Be afraid of dreams... - sometimes dreams come true.
          They wanted the Poles of Little Russian land - so they get allotment - small, but own.
          fellow
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 25 November 2022 21: 33
            +4
            Quote: cat Rusich
            The Poles wanted Little Russian land - so they get an allotment - small, but their own.

            For such people, the Russian land is not a pity, let them lie, the more the better. Forgive me Lord for such words.
            1. SKVichyakow
              SKVichyakow 26 November 2022 01: 32
              +1
              Quote: tihonmarine
              Quote: cat Rusich
              The Poles wanted Little Russian land - so they get an allotment - small, but their own.

              For such people, the Russian land is not a pity, let them lie, the more the better. Forgive me Lord for such words.

              Our LAND will be replenished with Polish-made fertilizers.
            2. Alexander Salenko
              Alexander Salenko 26 November 2022 11: 32
              0
              So no one called them to us, these are our lands. I can agree that the Polish city of Lviv, but that's all.
      3. Igor_Aretano
        Igor_Aretano 26 November 2022 00: 07
        +2
        Yes, information about this is slowly starting to appear in Polish social networks. But not in the style of "what he died for", but against the backdrop of hatred for Russia
    3. cat Rusich
      cat Rusich 25 November 2022 21: 06
      +6
      Quote: Leshak
      In the morgue there are a lot of bodies of mercenaries, the same Poles, they have heavy losses.

      And it's very, very good! good
      Without electricity, the refrigerators in the morgue will defrost "- the" meat "will go bad - you will have to throw it away.
      But that's their problem...
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 25 November 2022 22: 38
        +1
        Quote: cat Rusich
        Without electricity, the refrigerators in the morgue will defrost "- the" meat "will go bad - you will have to throw it away.

        Yes, they cover the body with some kind of chemistry. Even at funerals, they warn not to touch the body itself, only where the matter is closed.
    4. Alexander Salenko
      Alexander Salenko 26 November 2022 11: 07
      -1
      Just wonderful. Just now I was listening to one sensible person, hu there are Polish militants. I thought that these were temporarily dismissed army men, it turns out they have had territorial defense recently, it was she who destroyed the refugees on the Polish-Belarusian border, these are the extreme right, i.e. fascists.
  2. zloybond
    zloybond 25 November 2022 20: 02
    -18
    Meanwhile, the Krasnodar Territory is shaking from imported refugees. Information about drunkenness, fights and screams Glory to Ukraine on the streets of Anapa, Dzhubka and other coastal towns, where waiters were settled in hotels .... Children are afraid to go out, drunken Ukrainians roam in flocks and rush at the locals ... At first she shuddered Europe - we laughed - now feel our love, we came to you hi We live in interesting times. good
    1. agoran
      agoran 25 November 2022 20: 16
      +19
      And who is the evil Pinocchio to you?
      Are there no men left?
      In Koenig, three people came out of a tavern and screamed, still not dead. All three went to the hospital with a head injury, the police did not even begin to deal with it, because it was a provocation.
      The Sumerians do not come to you on bicycles, the meaning, I hope, is clear.
      1. vindigo
        vindigo 25 November 2022 20: 26
        +9
        Yes, he carries dill propaganda. Everything in the Krasnodar Territory is in order.
        1. zloybond
          zloybond 25 November 2022 20: 50
          -5
          Ozarovskiy??? I'm not sure about propaganda. Judging by the plots, he is a permanent local fighter there for some dunes and other natural and environmental issues. But along the way, a new topic has grown nearby and someone pretends that it’s not ale ??
          I don't know if you can post links? But if this is not correct, I think the moderators will delete it if I break something: Here is a link to your official Primorye blogger:
          https://vk.com/seaoz
          https://www.youtube.com/@YuraOZ
          Everything is understandable. There are more videos about him on YouTube. My wife sent me this one on VK.
          1. vindigo
            vindigo 25 November 2022 20: 53
            +2
            Maybe he is specifically only in Anapa and is known to some small number of fighters for the dunes and the environment?
            UPD
            Yes, it's a local realtor. Another slacker. There are plenty of those around here. They are campaigning for a move to the Krasnodar Territory.
      2. zloybond
        zloybond 25 November 2022 20: 35
        -1
        Well, I watched the videos, listened: Judging by the reviews of the witnesses of these concerts, yes, these characters are really taken away ..... I don’t know the subtleties. But the people are fiercely dissatisfied with another fact - There, in one video, the lady correctly says: the population collects for the front for copters, clothes, etc., they collect help and clothes for refugees, and these children of Captain Schmidt receive a certificate with millions for housing, get drunk and yell Glory ... .!!! ..... Strange affair.
        1. Alexander Salenko
          Alexander Salenko 26 November 2022 11: 36
          0
          They receive a certificate, we also have dissatisfaction about this, but they don’t yell, you can get it on the scoreboard for the glory of Ukraine. Not for the Ukrainian language. well, you turn around, you are a little surprised, and you turn away, but for bullying, then it will fly instantly. We had Donetsk in 14, I had to explain, now everything is quite calm.
    2. Godzila
      Godzila 25 November 2022 20: 20
      -2
      Quote: zloybond
      Meanwhile, the Krasnodar Territory is shaking from imported refugees. Public information about drunkenness, fights and cries of glory to Ukraine on the streets of Anapa is dispersed,

      Well, this is easily solved, there would be an order to clean up hi The authorities are afraid of the cries of the fifth Bandera column in Russia and Ze-chairman
    3. vindigo
      vindigo 25 November 2022 20: 22
      +2
      What kind of nonsense? We don't have that. There are working Ukrainians. They are no different from ordinary Cubans. Rather, local brawls or come in handy from Siberia and the Far East.
      1. agoran
        agoran 25 November 2022 20: 28
        -2
        Yes, he came in a hurry from Lensk to make a row in the Kuban.
        Turn on your head, what salaries are in Lensk and in the Kuban.
        Kubanoids can only work as servants for the Lenskys.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Alexander Salenko
          Alexander Salenko 26 November 2022 11: 37
          0
          We have Siberians working in Crimea, they are very different and work as guides, God forgive me, what kind of guides they are, in Crimea for a penny.
      2. zloybond
        zloybond 25 November 2022 20: 31
        -7
        Probably you, out of patriotic motives, rushed one place here. But your local blogger Yuri Ozarovsky, from whom the local authorities apparently don’t know where to hide the ends, posted another story on his VK page today. It's not the first time I've looked at it. I only found out about him for a couple of hours. But having googled this character, I have to say that he is trusted on the coast, because sometimes they try to hear him. So your anonymous "Fu" unfortunately does not dance with a real person with a camera.
        1. vindigo
          vindigo 25 November 2022 20: 33
          +11
          I live in Novorossiysk. Nothing like your fairy tales is written in our groups. We do not shout glory to Ukraine. Less blokhery listen. Ozarovskiy is something else.
          1. zloybond
            zloybond 25 November 2022 21: 11
            -3
            At the expense of Novoross - I think they don’t lodge there, because there is a port and there are no hotels. In Anapa, judging by the officialdom, they really brought a lot of people to sanatoriums.
            But specifically today (judging by the news channels), you have one (Local) there who took hollowed out cars with the symbols "Z" - so there are enough of them (those who are against it) everywhere.
            The main thing is not to lose vigilance and not to speak in advance about what might be eaten.
            It's like a gopher - you can't see it, but it's there. hi
            1. vindigo
              vindigo 25 November 2022 21: 17
              +5
              In Anapa, some "citizen of the USSR" recently arranged a shootout with the police. Instantly everyone knew. And then the news about the roiling refugees in Anapa would not have left our groups. And the local Khokhliberakhs would constantly post them. There are hotels in Novorossiysk). They spawned them. All sorts of Hiltons.
              UPD
              Yes. There are opponents of the SVO. Here is what you say, do and carry out propaganda in the form of "And Katz offers to surrender." In Krasnodar, cars with Z often spoil. For the most part, these are, by the way, residents of Moscow and St. Petersburg who have moved.
            2. Alexander Salenko
              Alexander Salenko 26 November 2022 11: 38
              -1
              There are hotels in Novorossiysk, there is something to see and people come there, it's good to tryndet.
        2. dmi.pris1
          dmi.pris1 25 November 2022 20: 54
          +6
          What are you talking about? What kind of trust in some blogger? Once again, I live there, I don’t know about this type at all. Everyone is looking for what he wants
        3. Alexander Salenko
          Alexander Salenko 29 November 2022 08: 59
          0
          Anonymous? and you are just a sir gone nuts from a greyhound.
    4. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 25 November 2022 20: 23
      +3
      Quote: zloybond
      At first, Europe shuddered - we laughed - now feel our love, we have come to you

      The other was not to be expected. The Krasnodar Territory has long been a "mecca" for various refugees.
      1. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 25 November 2022 20: 34
        +4
        I also seem to be a refugee, from the north, and with experience! feel drinks
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 25 November 2022 21: 13
          +3
          Quote: tralflot1832
          I also seem to be a refugee, from the north, and with experience!

          No - "Wide is my native land!!!"
    5. dmi.pris1
      dmi.pris1 25 November 2022 20: 41
      +4
      I was in Gelendzhik a week ago, nothing like that. I didn’t hear about Dzhubka at all. There is Dzhubga, for the most part there are guest houses and they don’t accommodate refugees. a lot. Haven't heard now
      1. zloybond
        zloybond 25 November 2022 21: 03
        -6
        you are always welcome: I already threw a little higher. But I'm afraid it's possible. I can’t know the moderators’ rules for sure, of course they can delete https://vk.com/seaoz
        https://www.youtube.com/@YuraOZ
        Everything is in your hands - true or not - I hope you share.
        1. dmi.pris1
          dmi.pris1 25 November 2022 21: 08
          +8
          Looked. Galim provocateur. That's all you need to know about such people.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 25 November 2022 21: 19
            +4
            Quote: dmi.pris
            I looked. Galim provocateur.

            A petty extortionist trying to live in the south at someone else's expense. Looked through and understood, the place of his prison.
          2. zloybond
            zloybond 25 November 2022 21: 22
            -5
            I hope this is not just a slogan - have you already figured it all out there ???? hi
            And then there are already two of his videos of how he carries humanitarian aid with video reports to the front for soldiers, and not just tryndit with his tongue.
            I’m also sitting studying the personality of a blogger.
            1. Alexander Salenko
              Alexander Salenko 26 November 2022 11: 40
              0
              And then the problem is to nurture an internal cissoshnik, or even decide to do it at all. well, how small. In my yard there are two cars with Zaporozhye license plates, you can't see or hear them.
              1. zloybond
                zloybond 29 November 2022 23: 01
                0
                Well... I don't know. Yours did their best there, or local Chekists. But the last few days I have been watching this your local blogger. It was interesting that there is so-or not so. And today I noticed - the videos about the "waiters" disappeared from its pages. Apparently the impact worked. Good job. hi
    6. Alexander Salenko
      Alexander Salenko 26 November 2022 11: 33
      0
      Tryndish, this stream passed through the Crimea, not a single excess, cissoshnik.
      1. zloybond
        zloybond 26 November 2022 12: 14
        -1
        I would respectfully accept your point of view about "tsipso" .... But we, as in Stanislavsky, get "I don't believe it!" - for one simple reason. Stands a few anonymous people and shouts out: I'm local, not true .. well, etc. - Opposite is a very real character laying out the invoice. Therefore, I personally regard anonymous slogans without reference to person and fact as the work of home-grown cissists. In this case, the opposite is true. Psychological techniques do not change.
        And if we assume (I hope that this is so) that the local Cheka is not dormant, then they would have sorted out the situation with the texture for a long time, and we would have watched the video with apologies ... BUT if there is peace and grace, then something like that with his material then it doesn't grow together undo... (Well, I think so)...
        In general, we'll see. People on the ground hope to work. hi
      2. zloybond
        zloybond 28 November 2022 10: 50
        0
        hi As for CIPSO))) - if you figure it out like that.
        soldier For example, take the calculation from me:
        For the entire time I visited the site (since 2014), I was able to rivet 1800 comments with something. where then 1 in two days (on average) i.e. somewhere a day a few, somewhere nothing at all.
        soldier For example, take you - since January 2022, you have managed to build more than 5000 comments.
        Thus it turns out you live on the site. Those. You work here.
        This is your workplace to be specific. 20 comments a day - isn't that too much??? Perhaps you have more than one account registered here????
        So be careful about cissors. hi
        1. Alexander Salenko
          Alexander Salenko 29 November 2022 09: 03
          0
          I've been on the site since 2013, so a little earlier. I did not register because I read the comments of more intelligent people. And if you really are ready to meet the answer since 2014. What articles did the person with the heaviest vest publish here, and what was the tsimes in there, how did his articles differ from scientific ones?
          1. zloybond
            zloybond 29 November 2022 10: 42
            0
            I'm honestly more historical. CBO - I just try to follow the progress more, in conversations if I get in, then you regret it. People on edge. Many are just working out.
            On a business trip, there was practically a more or less intelligible site about the situation in the Army. Until he returned to Russia, he tried to follow. BUT mostly packed with avengers. To whom and for what it is not clear - the main goal of many is not to stop. If the author has a rational grain, they used to spit. Years have passed and you remember some - but how the author nawang)))
            At the expense of tryndet: I have already said above -
            Since 2014, according to statistics, I have been able to make about 1800 plus comments. This is somewhere around 1 comment every two days on average ... if excluding weekends. Somewhere more - somewhere less.
            But I am always suspicious of commentators who, according to statistics, have at least 10 comments per day. It turns out about 15 if he is not on duty at least on weekends))) Well, if 20-30, it turns out that a person lives here and his workplace is here. Because, as a monstrous capacity for work - To watch, not to eat, not to sleep. So at the expense of tryndet, my grandmother said for two.
            1. Alexander Salenko
              Alexander Salenko 2 December 2022 15: 52
              0
              And what's the problem with writing 1015 comments a day? I do not have an irregular working day And not even 8-hour, maybe 12-hour, or maybe 6-hour, like today, and you answered me what date and what I answer? And before looking at the statistics, and there are three types of lies: lies, blatant lies and statistics, you should look at the days. I try to read the news every day, but I don't always succeed, and besides VO, I am only present on one forum. Reading the comments under the news, why not speak out, I don’t see any problems with this. And what kind of topic am I moving to get paid for it, can you tell me? And then I’m still sitting here, so a penny will drip.
              Just kidding, of course, no office has enough money to pay me, for example, today I earned 5 rubles and kopecks, there are many offices that pay that kind of money. Do you know? And this salary is not a record at all. And you never answered the question, I meant Wasserman.
              And you can eat at the computer, in fact, which I do, because there are a lot of interesting things on the Internet and I watch programs regularly, and I read books, which I advise you.
              1. zloybond
                zloybond 2 December 2022 16: 38
                -1
                I'm sorry I haven't been reading carefully lately. was seriously ill. more or less began to understand. Abandoned the affairs of life. So it was not up to Waserman.
                Anatoly Alexandrovich is certainly an intelligent figure. But let's put it this way (my attitude, I do not impose):
                _ All the near-military "Experts" would do better with their direct knowledge.
                Let's say there are a lot of experts who are now presented as military, etc. BUT let's say many of them are just political officers. Some have made a career and shoulder straps through KVN, journalism and so on.
                On a case-by-case basis, I respect the comment of an expert of direct knowledge. And the rest - it's like a deputy for general issues - and in front of the dias and behind the master ...
                But if you are an economist - do not poke your head with a claim to military space knowledge, etc. ... If you are a political officer - conduct political information, lead KVN ... only without pretensions to knowledge of tactics and strategy. Your job is to educate the staff.
                Wasserman: Graduated from the Odessa Technological Institute of the Refrigeration Industry, Faculty of Thermal Physics, majoring in Thermal Physics Engineer. After graduating from the institute, from August 1, 1974 to September 30, 1977, he worked as a programmer ... and so on. What, where, when, Own game, etc ....... from a good family, good upbringing .. intellectual, observant. I won't say anything bad. But everyone should be an expert in their field. When all at once - it's something else ....
                Political career - well, I trained when I was in the service (study) in the direction of political technology ... I know how people move. This is a different story.
                I think publicists-intellectuals deserve to read them. But don't take it for the truth. Much is said and used for something, in the name of something, for something...
                And long work abroad taught me not to believe in words and deeds. Not everything is on the surface.
                I apologize for the long comment. I'm still bad at thinking.
                But in general, A.A. Wasserman can be read and there is something to think about. The main thing is to understand what figure moved him, in the interests of which figure he does something, what is on the horizon for goals (in real, and not declared in election promises etc.), what motivates a person besides a correctly formulated speech, the alignment of the field, maybe someone who is useful is pushed in ??? in general, the analysis of the person is always assumed, and not the public image.
                1. Alexander Salenko
                  Alexander Salenko 2 December 2022 18: 06
                  0
                  All paramilitary "Experts" would be better off doing their direct knowledge.

                  I cannot but agree and near-historical ones too, the problem here is that you can get into this topic. You can’t jump into nuclear physics like that, and even there the audience is smaller.
                  Let's say there are a lot of experts who are now presented as military, etc. BUT let's say many of them are just political officers. Some have made a career and shoulder straps through KVN, journalism and so on.

                  Well, there are sensible ones, for example, Pulikovsky, who raised the son of a general and not a general's son, died in Chechnya, or Baranets, who delayed the term, and then became an officer, rose to the rank of colonel of the General Staff, his book is interesting "The Lost Army" of an autobiographical nature.
                  I apologize for the long comment.

                  Why, a completely detailed answer is not SMS, but we write to each other. The only thing I want to note in my field, for example, there are historians without a historical education, I know two of them, both are in love with military topics and many of my classmates with specialized education can give odds even at the time they graduated from the history department, yet they scattered in different areas, and knowledge is lost over time. Yes, and it’s not clear that there some of them forgot at all, is it possible to get a crust?
                  In the case of Wasserman’s specific education, I have two options, either problems with work, that he was not useful, for you never know, an excess of personnel, or, most likely, not such a good specialist. And the programmer did not work out.
                  I also changed quite a few jobs, but I never left history, it is more difficult for a historian, unlike a programmer, to earn money.
                  As for gears like what, where, when, this type of game annoys me a little, so I have not a small comment drawn, knowledge is not shown there. My wife is looking and now I am looking at Wasserman, he did not answer a number of fairly simple questions. These are programs for those who know the name of the work. authors and quotes from it but does not understand the essence. These were produced in large numbers over the years. His articles did not go to me, very superficially. Well, actually there are enough near-historical articles with illiterate content on VO, I won’t name the authors, but some of them have a weak idea of ​​​​how a historical study is written, even of a popular science sense.
                  1. zloybond
                    zloybond 2 December 2022 18: 57
                    -1
                    We have a problem with history. Well, it happened. Kings burned books, Blacked out facts, personalities, and so on.
                    Once my father was still alive, we argued with him about the history of the village where my parents moved. My father was a communist by nature, on the good side. He was rooting for this cause and at the end of his life a few years ago he even joined the party.
                    So there was a dispute about the fact that there were poor people in the village and everyone lived hard here and the Soviet government was accepted as a gift (in a nutshell) - This is how the local cell presented him in the face of his new friend, the head of the party organization. As luck would have it, a year before that, I became interested in the history of this village and got the reports of the NKVD on the suppression of unrest, uprisings, etc. And it was necessary, as luck would have it, it was in this village that the uprising was suppressed, in which more than 1,5 thousand prosperous peasants and other non-lazy masses of the population accepted. They brutally suppressed, with machine guns, with desecration and burning of the local church, for having sounded the alarm ... He showed this and people were surprised that about 400 people now live in the village with grief in half, and then only strong men were against the Soviet regime 1,5 thousand performed. Then he found them the hero of the Tsushima battle who lived in this village. Then someone tore off his shirt and said that he was from the poor, and we found a book that his family were professional military from boyar children and, according to the regulation on the border guard service, owned a neighboring village and carried out the sovereign service .... In general, starting from the bottom to the top we have gaps ... All the troubles from each new trend of power - change the vector, reprint history, replace concepts, etc.
                    So they collect not the lazy remnants of the truth piece by piece from randomly pop-up documents.
                    I became interested in history when, while visiting relatives, sitting with my father on some stone near a destroyed church in the Ivanovo region in an almost abandoned village, I suddenly noticed the strange shape of the stone. Pulled out of the ground, cleared. It turned out to be the gravestone of an infantry major who died of wounds in 1812 after the battle of Borodino. My father and I puffed for a long time cleaning the stone. The church, as usual under the Soviets, was closed, turned into a warehouse, the tombstones were destroyed, the graves were overgrown ... everything was forgotten, erased, No one would have remembered this major.
                    But then they found a cemetery of German soldiers from the Second World War in the forest. Well-groomed, cleaned crosses, painted .... We keep the wrong story. They opened a memorial to Italian soldiers in Rossosh, put up a monument ... What are we doing ????
                    1. Alexander Salenko
                      Alexander Salenko 2 December 2022 20: 25
                      0
                      So there was a dispute that there were poor people in the village and everyone lived hard here and the Soviet government was accepted as a gift (in a nutshell)

                      Excuse me, but it's hard to believe, we have the city of Alupka, for example, a city, not a village, there are 8 thousand people. The fact that they came from the surrounding villages, yes, I believe, as well as the fact that the village was reduced, so excuse me, 16 million citizens of the USSR left for the cities even before the war. Maybe the problem is urbanization?
                      The fact that in your particular case could be a goat boss, for sure. But about the fact that those who know how to work, if you know how, you just die. I don’t know how familiar you are with the village, I’m not very familiar, I didn’t live, but I came and even ran a peasant economy, though not for a very long time, well, instead of a departed worker, I told you that I vary in time.
                      So my father is already a city, a village grandfather, he barely restrained his obscenities when he spoke about fists. When I went with him to the dacha, until we fall down, he will not stop. And there is either 3 or 4 acres of some kind. I don't remember exactly how many, not a couple of hectares.
                      There was a village drunkard, so they were fists. which for the sake of soldering could cause injury. By the way, do you know the story of Pavlik Morozov? Not as taught in the media. Pavlik acted as an accuser in his father's case. The father divorced his mother, everything would not have happened, but then the customary law from the word custom acted. When grandfather Sergei married his son, he gave him a plot. The son is divorced, which means he can take it away. And there from him 4 children. Are they going to die of hunger? No land, no food.
                      Grandfather Sergey killed two of his grandchildren with his uncle, Pavlik was the eldest. He tried to cover his brother and grabbed the blade of a knife, it didn’t help, but it was a courageous act. The boy was 10 years old. Modern adults from such a perspective would be pissed off.
                      And one more thing, the lining came out with the NKVD, ask when this abbreviation was established.
                      They brutally suppressed, with machine guns, with desecration and burning of the local church, for having sounded the alarm ...

                      And here I see priestly propaganda. Nobody hurt the Orthodox faith, it was just that the Soviet state separated the church from the state, and, therefore, the church must maintain its own churches, if they are not architectural monuments. You watch the video of Zakhar Prilepin, see how many abandoned temples are now. He is a believer.
                      But according to your story, maybe it was a setup? I do not know the realities, but to sound the alarm against what? What's wrong there?
                      Then he found them the hero of the Tsushima battle who lived in this village.

                      This surprised me the most, because sailors usually took workers and not peasants. Well, look, Brusilov is on one side, and his subordinate Denikin is on the other. By the way, why is he heroic, I don’t know a more shameful defeat of the fleet in history. Nobody expected such a result.
                      I told you that I watch historical programs, and so the previous battles of the 1st Pacific squadron did not end so dry.
                      I became interested in history when, while visiting relatives, sitting with my father on some stone near a destroyed church in the Ivanovo region in an almost abandoned village, I suddenly noticed the strange shape of the stone. Pulled out of the ground, cleared.

                      This is an extremely unfortunate story, in Simferopol we also built up part of the cemetery of veterans of the Crimean War, alas. Moreover, that of ours, that of British, French, Italian and Turkish. This is already in Sevastopol.
                      But then they found a cemetery of German soldiers from the Second World War in the forest. Well-groomed, cleaned crosses, painted....

                      I don’t agree, in the Vrorontsovsky Park in the German cemetery, cows and goats grazed in the 90s, this is again Simferopol. Zhmurov, excuse me, the slang of archaeologists, then they pulled it out and buried it decently, but I walked among these grave mounds. And we have enough memorable places, what I told about Simferopol in Krymskaya is rather an exception.
                      1. zloybond
                        zloybond 2 December 2022 23: 01
                        -1
                        - About the sailor: This is a sailor of the 2nd article from the Battleship Alexander-3. The death of the ship was not shameful. You can read. And by the way, the list of the dead crew says that half of the sailors were from peasants.
                        - Regarding the document - this is a report of the OGPU for 34 years for some meeting of the NKVD. It was later used by historians for statistics. I can find the exact name. Somewhere on the disk left. I was asked to print it for the archive.
                        - Around the village.
                        My ancient ancestors participated in the uprising of B. Khmelnitsky. Chernihiv Cherkasy Cossack Regiment. Then the regiment went to the service of the Moscow Tsar the entire regiment, with weapons. The history of the regiment is known. Commander of Colonel Dzinkovsky.
                        In 1652, my ancestors swore allegiance to Moscow and served wherever the Sovereign sent them. My great-great-grandfather Cossack participated in the Khiva campaign, each time he invested the money received for his service in a piece of land. He bought it, rented it. There were many children. The whole family worked. Every time he came home from work, he went to the field. Laborers were not kept. Children were brought up strictly. Gradually put on grew. The house and barns that my great-grandfather built are still standing. The Soviet government took away, there was a village council, a tractor brigade, a school, a music school ....
                        The bottom line is that in spite of everything, his children went to defend Soviet power. One died near Moscow (brother of my grandfather). Another last letter and photo was sent home in June 1941 from the Brest Fortress. Grandfather in the Panfilov division near Volokolamsk received the first wound. The second wound on the Leningrad front, survived the blockade at the front, the third wound near Koenigsberg. The war was already over. But he returned home only in 1948. I mean, no matter what, They were not mad at the people who took their land, which they did not steal. They went to serve and defend a new country.
                        - About the church. This is already where the parents settled when the country fell apart.
                        The old man spoke. He was a boy. I listened. The story was like this. When the people gathered and decided to go against the Soviet regime, the alarm sounded in the Church, people began to come and come. Well, when a detachment of Red Army soldiers arrived, the church (soldiers) pissed, crap, drove people to drag logs and surround the church (it was brick), surrounded it to the bell tower and set it on fire ... Some of the peasants were taken to Kursk ...
                        Looks like anger is on the rise. It's all about the destruction of the church. And what I remember from the story of a 95 year old man 15 years ago.
                        The collective farm where the parents came was serious. The leader was unlucky. The fish rots from the head.
                        As for me. I am a military man and served in the country and the world wherever they send. But in all cases, he spent the money he earned on buying land. So I collected 60 hectares. On which I now have grain, berry fields, sheep. I gave people jobs, I work myself, sometimes I am up to my elbows in shit. Differently. Then I put on a suit, I go to the capital, and no one will say that yesterday I was in shit, today from Versace. It is not necessary for everyone to know. And if I'm lucky, I'm going to buy land if I can.
                        I met a Muslim while abroad. He is also sometimes in a suit, sometimes digging in the ground, and by origin Shah, work is not a shame .... I am not afraid and I am not ashamed of work. This is how my parents lived.
                      2. Alexander Salenko
                        Alexander Salenko 3 December 2022 08: 20
                        0
                        The death of the ship was not shameful. You can read. And by the way, the list of the dead crew says that half of the sailors were from peasants.

                        I can be wrong about the peasants, but the ship is still a mechanical thing, and you need to understand the mechanics and understand it. Shameful is not the death of any particular ship. for example, for me, the destroyer Guarding is much more heroic than the Varangian. Shamefully the leadership of this war and Tsushima is a kind of final chord. I have no complaints about sailors.
                        My great-great-grandfather Cossack participated in the Khiva campaign, each time he invested the money received for his service in a piece of land. He bought it, rented it. There were many children. The whole family worked. Every time he came home from work, he went to the field. Laborers were not kept.

                        The last sentence is key, your great-great-grandfather was not a fist. And on the subject of severity and a lot of children. and mine were strictly kept either on my father's side or on my mother's side, and there are also many children, this is a common peasant story. The only difference from you, I have no idea what my ancestors did in the 17th century. But here you said the word Cossack, and this is an estate. For example, the future Marshal Budyonny grew up in the Cossack land, but as a Cossack he was deprived of the privileges of the Cossack class. Maybe there's a problem here?
                        Your ancestors opposed the authorities for their privileges and got maybe on the head and hence the resentment? So they and my ancestors later in the Second World War were in the same trenches Jointly shed blood and their own and the enemy, I think I had to reconcile, my big family was all for the Reds, and yours raised a rebellion against them, we, the descendants, will now be considered ?
                        The house and barns that my great-grandfather built are still standing. The Soviet government took away, there was a village council, a tractor brigade, a school, a music school ....

                        Power is not always right, for example, my ancestors were once serfs. But you let slip about the barns built, but, excuse me, for what? To buy from the peasants cheaper and then sell at a higher price? Forgive me, but my ancestors stood up against this. Now the peasants are being bred in the same way.
                        I'm going to take a break now, but I'll continue later.
                      3. zloybond
                        zloybond 3 December 2022 10: 03
                        -1
                        Barns were used to store grain that was removed from the fields. Well, of course, any working utensils, tools and stuff. There were 6 sons and daughters, there were 4 daughters. In revolutionary times, in one of the barns, the grandmother showed Cossacks were kept. Those who participated in the rebellion. Well, there, at the wall, they decided the questions of the end of their life path ... No, great-grandfather did not stand up against the authorities. He sent his son to Moscow, he returned with a document ordering everything to be returned to the family. And you know - returned. But - Then they still took it away. Apparently, all the same, to create collective farms, land, property, cattle, horses were required ... and how can you get past the finished one). Sons who are older than those in different ways. One lived to old age (Uncle Ivan did not accept Soviet power, I remember him alive, he was wounded, chopped with a saber) participated in the White Cossack rebellion, the second was brought on a cart and died somewhere in a battle with the Reds. Another was the commander of the Red Army detachment, then the chairman of the collective farm. My grandfather, 10 years old, still says he was a kid and then he was just starting his way through life and watching the elders. There was also a younger one, who later died near Moscow, and another who disappeared somewhere near Brest. At the beginning of the war, as part of the Panfilov division, my grandfather went to the front, as a gunner of 45 mm guns .. Everything is different. It’s just that before the revolution they served, the military class - here, as they say, everyone has their own way. I served a term, then a military school, a military academy, my father served a term, then an officer served, my grandfather served (but he has only 4 grades of the TsPSh), my great-grandfather served, my great-great-grandfather served, my great-great-great-grandfather served. - Everyone served Russia. With different rulers, but Russia. There is no point in waving the flag. I'm not at the rally.
                        On the maternal side, everything is more complicated there - they served churches, a whole convoy of books, Old Believers, were taken from Moscow to the schism. I learned to read from a book of 1643. a gift from Patriarch Joseph of Moscow to Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich of Moscow .... I also remember one book, it begins - Punishment of the Patriarch to teachers ... teach children to read and write words, etc. ... It is an interesting thing to pick up books, which then the church was looking to burn. Well, everything from the desire to turn everything upside down.
                        Although mine participated in the uprisings. My grandfather told me, and his grandfather told my grandfather that merchants were robbed on the Don with Razin ... I didn’t believe .... But then, over time, when I found out about the regiment of Colonel Dzinkovsky, it was possible to establish that Dzinkovsky supported Razin and let him into the Ostrogozhsky fortress. According to archival documents, it is confirmed that Dzinkosky knew Razin from joint participation in the war. Both are from Cherkasy villages. Perhaps the stories of the grandfathers have a basis, given that some of the Cossacks of Dzinkovsky supported the Razintsev. Dzinkovsky was handed over to the authorities by a Cossack sergeant-major... There weren't any of us here, what to guess.
                        But as my grandfather told me, His father and grandfather were opposed to keeping workers. They worked as a family. My father also always said - grandfathers did not betray the oath, they did not keep laborers, and I will not. But with this, we always came out with a discord in understanding what the concept of a laborer is. And there is a Person to whom you can give a job, pay for his work, develop the economy. It's hard to argue with the older generation. They had their own way which they were taught by the Soviet school. Although I also graduated from high school in Soviet times. BUT ... A bad story with the collapse of the country makes you decide whether you are watching, or serving, rolling up your sleeves, you live and work with your head. I do not rally, and people running around with a flag, slogans and rubbing some idea of ​​their own are alien to me. But they are interesting to watch. And then we had a good teacher who taught the knowledge of political technologies.
                        In general, many different interesting destinies intertwined in the family. My aunt married one of the Shustovs. Their cognac factories also did not fall out of the moon, but went to the state. His father was friends with Poddubny. Helped. He instilled in the family a love of wrestling. The fates of the Shustovs and Poddubny are also ambiguous .... The wife has a grandfather from a farm laborer's family. Grandfather's father worked as a laborer, collected pennies and bought land bit by bit. Became a major landowner. But the authorities one night appeared in the person of a troika, they took them out of the gates in the underworld and ordered that by morning there should be no spirit. Grandfather was 5 years old (24 years of birth). Then he graduated from the same school, a military school, went to the front, finished his service as a colonel. Not offended by the authorities. Served the country. He was already an old man when he found out that I had bought the first land, but he was ready to give up the idea. So he told me then - never give up the land. Buy, I'll help. My father is said to have been ruined by the authorities, although he came out of laborers, they let him go around the world .... Sometimes times drive people into amazing bindings.
                        By the way, I remembered the episode with the same church.
                        When my father died, a year later at the cemetery I met his friend, the secretary of that same party cell. He saw that I drove up to the cemetery and approached - his house was nearby, just 200 meters from that ruined church. So he told me the same story. What, yes, they say, there were unrest in the village against the Soviet regime, a detachment of Reds came - the peasants were tied up, shot, someone was taken away with them, and the church was set on fire and destroyed. He was told by his father, who experienced it all with his own eyes. It was our last earthly meeting, he apparently wanted to speak out. Sometimes people know something, but are silent out of political correctness or for some other reason. The old people in the village told the times of the occupation in different ways. A separate issue, of course. But it is also not clearly understood.
                        In fact, there are no emotions or resentment here. All people are like fingers on the same hand. Everyone has their own truth. Someone is protesting, something is proving. Some people just work.
                        .... Tsushima .... I did not consider the naval battle through the prism of a shameful loss in the war. It was important to me that that particular sailor, until the very end, at his combat post, waved a shovel, throwing coal into the furnace of boilers ... Or serviced guns ... He simply did his job as a soldier in his place honestly to the end. But everyone has their own truth and everyone has the right to fight for it if he believes in it. Everyone will be judged by the winners. I believe in the victory of Russia.
                      4. Alexander Salenko
                        Alexander Salenko 3 December 2022 20: 10
                        0
                        Barns were used to store grain that was removed from the fields. Well, of course, any working utensils, tools and stuff. There were 6 sons and daughters, there were 4 daughters.

                        Is it clear that yours, who are 6 brothers, did not have their own families? Well, here's the father's and here's the sons, you. Who are you trying to breed? I don't think it's intentional, but it's a common fist song. Together with the stories about children, the picture is clear to me. Excuse me wildly, but your grandfather is a hoe. Everyone talks about hard-working people, but here you burst out about barns, I didn’t pull my tongue. I have no desire to hurt you, but only those who resold grain could have barns. Whether the sons worked in your grandfather, perhaps, they definitely didn’t lie on the stove. But others also worked for your grandfather, because they were not able to sell the grain on their own.
                        In revolutionary times, in one of the barns, my grandmother showed Cossacks were kept. Those who participated in the rebellion. Well, there, at the wall, they decided the questions of the end of their life path ...

                        There could be scumbags, but maybe with specific claims, I'm not a judge in this regard. Bunin, for example, described the case of how they spat in his back because he was a bourgeois. By the way, his Cursed Days is a nasty little book. but I definitely don't approve of spitting in the back.
                        Apparently, all the same, to create collective farms, land, property, cattle, horses were required ...

                        Horses, you say, then it’s clear where the barns come from, and how many horses were there? Peasant farming is economical and it’s another task to mow hay for each horse, you, as an agricultural worker, understand this simple truth.
                        It’s just that before the revolution they served, the military class - here, as they say, everyone has their own way.

                        Yes, military, life has become more complicated purely technically. Could the Cossacks reproduce a simple three-inch gun, for example? No, it couldn't. It was a dying class. Here you have a Cossack grandfather, and I have a royal guard, but not a grandfather, but a great-grandfather, how can he explain to me worse? My great-grandfather died, I didn’t know him, but my grandfather was very combative, the word diplomacy is definitely not about him.
                        But as my grandfather told me, His father and grandfather were opposed to keeping workers. They worked as a family.

                        How about renting a horse? I also do not keep employees, moreover. I will say that you want everything to be fine. do it yourself. Therefore, I hire one or another from time to time. One-time orders. So, for example, yours could rent a horse at 50%, usually they rented their fists that much, maybe not, but I repeat, our ancestors quarreled, mine would not stand on ceremony with yours and vice versa, but it was mine that won. And now you and others like you want to take revenge? It was our ancestors who quarreled, and why should we swear? But you say that there are lazy people running around somewhere, do you really need it? My ancestors are Red Army soldiers, yes, they fought against your ancestors. So are you trying to avenge old grievances, or is the state and its safety more important?
                        Until people like you realize that the Reds are also our people, the Civil War in the minds will definitely not end.

                        What yes, they say, there were unrest in the village against the Soviet regime, a detachment of Reds came - the peasants were tied up,

                        Did the Red detachment consist of reptilians? Aren't they the same guys?
                        In fact, there are no emotions or resentment here. All people are like fingers on the same hand. Everyone has their own truth. Someone is protesting, something is proving. Some people just work.

                        Only fingers can turn into a fist, right?
                      5. zloybond
                        zloybond 3 December 2022 20: 51
                        -1
                        As for the horses.
                        Personally, in our yard, our father and brother had 5 horses when they worked on the collective farm.
                        As for the grandfather. Well, by the words barns, I probably didn’t specify - I meant all the household buildings, stables, storage, sheds, Barn.
                        Horses were combatant for each registered Cossack. From the age of 14, each son was supposed to have a drill horse. Nobody had the right to harness these horses to work. The rest I will not say how much.
                        Given the sons .... consider for yourself from what date the number of horses began. I think there was definitely a workhorse for everyone ...
                        The Cossack was supposed to come to the service on a horse, with weapons and in uniform ....
                        Well, there already, as your fantasy tells you.
                        After the deadline, Before entering the Academy, I arrived in the village where my parents moved and received responsibility for collective farm horses according to paper number 36. On the face 1. The rest of the KhZ.
                        I traveled around the farms, they looked for horse thieves, in general, they gradually figured it out. Rented leaving for more than 40.
                        Whoever wants - he will have both a horse and more than one. The main thing is not to piss and work.
                      6. Alexander Salenko
                        Alexander Salenko 4 December 2022 09: 22
                        0
                        As for the horses.
                        Personally, in our yard, our father and brother had 5 horses when they worked on the collective farm.

                        You do not confuse the collective farm with the pre-revolutionary economy, although I do not really understand why you had 5 horses for three. But these are my problems.
                        Well, that means you didn’t personally mow down all 5 horses for the winter, but bought some kind of compound feed. You know about this better than I do, I did not work on the collective farm. But the pre-revolutionary peasant did not have such luxury, and what you write below is that it was possible to have more than one horse, if you rent it out. We plowed on horses, we again need a horse to go to the city on business, but the climatic conditions are such that we have a long stall period. Well, tell me how, without equipment, you manually mow down two mares?
                        Horses were combatant for each registered Cossack. From the age of 14, each son was supposed to have a drill horse. Nobody had the right to harness these horses to work. The rest I will not say how much.

                        So, the drill horse had to be fed all the more, the drill Cossack should have two horses, because he rode on one, and fought on the other, and the one on which he rode could be fed more modestly. But you still need to feed it, otherwise it will die. And on a fighting mare, so there it was necessary to feed grain. Do not tell me who provided all this? In Ukraine, of course, this is easier than in the Central Russian strip, but still.
                        Given the sons .... consider for yourself from what date the number of horses began. I think there was definitely a workhorse for everyone ...

                        Well, if there was a combatant, then a worker, for sure, the Cossacks also plowed. In principle, it was impossible to get into the Polish register if you had less than two horses. And one of them must be status, the difference between a worker and a combatant is approximately the same as between a Cossack and a Mercedes.
                        The Cossack was supposed to come to the service on a horse, with weapons and in uniform ....
                        Well, there already, as your fantasy tells you.

                        Why do I need fantasy? There is historical information, for example, that the Cossacks were not taxed, well, you can live like that, so the Cossack was supposed to receive a saber for the unpaid tax rate, then a saber, which, by the way, is a primitive fencing. pike, but sewing a uniform is even easier, because the same checker was very expensive, it's a solid piece of steel. So the Cossack, with the help of this very checker, could take something away, which he constantly used, but I'm talking to you about simple peasant farming.
                        When the Russian peasants began to develop the Wild Field, they healed, but then the nobles quickly tightened the screws. Because if there is such and such amount of grain, in Russia, there is enough, I won’t lie how much, I don’t remember, then there will be enough here, and the surplus is for myself. Well, for example, in Soviet times in the 80s, a centner of wheat from Ukraine cost half as much as the Baltic, and plus or minus this difference persisted.
                        But even among the Cossacks, for example, scouts formed, and in the Sich - golotas. For example, in the Crimean War, these very scouts passed through our Simferopol, later they would become snipers on the Sevastopol bastions and their sloppy appearance would be forgotten, and at first they were looked at as clowns. Since it was summer, Count Adlerberg, our Governor-General, made a remark why the scouts were walking in the winter, the overcoats were supposed to be rolled up, the floors raised, to which the commander of the scouts replied that if this was done, shameful places would be visible. And the Simferopol residents threw themselves on their pants and buttons for them, dressed the ragamuffins.
                        I repeat - these are the heroes of Sevastopol, an ordinary Russian soldier could fill several rounds in a rifle, could shoot with a ramrod, or shoot all the capsules without using up a single cartridge, and this inability was leveled by the scoundrels.
                        And you are telling me here about the norm of horses, due to what such a scout could live? Yes, at the expense of his gun, or the Littich fitting. What he shot, he ate. Won't you tell me how it happened? I understand that even a complete drunk can shoot accurately, but only if he doesn’t feel sleepy and he needs money to drink.
                        After the deadline, Before entering the Academy, I arrived in the village where my parents moved and received responsibility for collective farm horses according to paper number 36. On the face 1. The rest of the KhZ.
                        I traveled around the farms, they looked for horse thieves, in general, they gradually figured it out. Rented leaving for more than 40.
                        Whoever wants - he will have both a horse and more than one. The main thing is not to piss and work.

                        Well, you certainly did a great job, this is without any irony, but it draws on a criminal case, and a very weighty one at that. And under the king they beat horse thieves. if you get caught. Each village had its own horse thief, not a village, but a village, so it certainly was, and it was he who was trusted to graze his horses. because a horse thief does not steal from a horse thief. Therefore, in the village a stranger could steal, and if he was caught, then the terrible began there. Here I often see Pisarev's advertisements, you read his stories about peasant life, he saw it with his own eyes. even then my mind went a little crazy. Strongly passed everything through
                        And you give me Soviet life as an argument, is there a difference in harvesting with a sickle, or with a combine?
                        Once again, not to work for a peasant is to die. It's just a death sentence. Emelya lies on the stove because it is winter, he is tired, I myself work seasonally and I know what it is like when you have a conditional haymaking and you have to work hard here and now so that you have something to eat in winter And after the season I lie down for a couple of weeks.
                        But about the need to work, I see a lot of examples of how someone doesn’t plow much and doesn’t do a damn thing, I believe that you know quite a few such examples. Go to any supermarket, people don't work there or what? So take an interest in how they work and what they get at the exhaust. Not everyone steals far there, it doesn’t work out very well, there are a lot of cameras. Yes, in ordinary stores, the seller of the store near the house almost cheated me and this was not on purpose, I went into it the day before yesterday, she was on her feet yesterday. she is back on her feet. To say that there girls do not plow. just the tongue does not turn.
                        I never bargain with a peasant, sometimes I pay dearly for his products, I see a grandmother with apples there. I also pay extra on top, because she took it out to sell it and spend something on medicines.
                        In the city, simple hard workers work hard in the same way, there are frank bukhari, but they live on the necks of their mothers, in the village this is impossible. because mom will not physically plow the land. An unplowed field is the absence, you understand, of food. And about not writing, but working - this is not about the village.
                      7. zloybond
                        zloybond 4 December 2022 10: 58
                        -1
                        I will say more:
                        In order to get back on their feet after the move, they had to keep several cows, bulls, and piglets at the same time. And all this after the main work until midnight: clean, feed, and while you harness it lightly, you ride with your father, you wave your scythe, turn it over, then you still transport it all, stack it.
                        At the main job, there are only 40 bulls, they also need to be fed and watered.
                        Then I got ZIL. And it was necessary to go on flights, carried coal, sugar, grain from the fields. And then at home again in the evening haymaking, cleaning. They got on their feet, rebuilt, overgrown with households. Locals began to come asking if there was a job. They set up a bakery, baked the first bread ... It is difficult to work in the countryside if you work. It is easier to complain and whine after digging a trench out of complaints and moaning and pounce with old grievances on those who do not sit on their ass evenly. There were later attempts to spoil the locals out of envy and resentment - they arrived, plowed, mowed, carried. And then they came not to drink too much nearby, they worked, they worked.
                        It was more difficult with the choice of implementation later - they raised horses, cows, bulls - they were sold to resellers for a penny at first. Then they found a sale themselves. Apiary, again, always helped out.
                        Then I came to the conclusion - there is no need to re-educate and fight in futile attempts to change the foundations of those who do not want it themselves. I paid attention to children (schoolchildren). Somehow he asked the passing boys - do you want a part-time job in your free time? Collect raspberries, tie up. The work is not dusty. Children are pleased to have their own penny. Grow up - there will be more work, they will learn. Maybe they won’t go to Moscow for the Sabbaths. That's how we live. We do not declare war on the lazy. Let's not forget to work.
                        Now, years later, the main thing is not to forget friends. Those who extended their hand and framed their shoulder.
                        The only thing I did not devote full attention to this for a long time in connection with the service.
                        Brother got more. He bought his first horse at the age of 12 with money from a summer job on his mother's farm. Shepherd 1,5 thousand sheep every day all summer. When the money was credited, he asked for a foal instead. Raised and sold.
                      8. Alexander Salenko
                        Alexander Salenko 4 December 2022 19: 02
                        0
                        It is difficult to work in the countryside if you work. It is easier to complain and whine after digging a trench out of complaints and moaning and pounce with old grievances on those who do not sit on their ass evenly.

                        Your story is very interesting. I am not mocking, because my experience is somewhat different and so I will say that the more I strained, the less I earned. But I repeat that my grandfather has an abnormal desire to work hard, what you read in Pisarev's book, there are no mouthers there.
                        Locals began to come asking if there was a job. They set up a bakery, baked the first bread ... It is difficult to work in the countryside if you work. It's easier to complain and whine

                        Whine to whom? You again confuse Soviet reality with non-Soviet. My mother has a friend who lives in the village, she had a husband, he has already died, 2 sons, one the same age and another a little younger, but did not remain in the village. The father of my homies, the deceased, for example, went to work in Germany, despite the fact that they only had birds with a couple of hundred heads, pigs, horses at one time, a goat, three cows. So their dad, you want to say that you are lazy and could not find a job in the countryside, as it says, to plow and not write.
                        I periodically lived with them from the age of 12, and I, as a city man, still stretch in bed, and Genka, this is the eldest of the boys, is already feeding the cattle. None of the boys began to develop a peasant economy. so their father, the deceased, probably did not go to Germany from a good life. I bought milk from the mistress of the house, my mother's friend, bypassing the authorities, she kept a couple of cows for some time and eventually sold. He gave them water to his children and directly and porridge there. And the problem is that with this very milk you come to the market and sell it at one price, and your buyer, who has papers, resells it at another.
                        Just don’t say that you don’t know about it and about baking bread, that’s right. because, for example, in Simferopol I hardly eat bread, it is of the second quality. But it means that you had some way out, not just to bake bread, it is not so difficult to organize, but to sell it. Because the product becomes such if it is sold. And it's hard for you to admit that you are an exploiter.
                        Did you achieve it with your own strength? Probably, although I doubt it, but let's say there were no jobs left in the countryside, so they asked you to.
                        For example, tobacco growing was developed in our country, smoking is harmful, this is understandable, but someone smokes and villages lived on tobacco. But somehow, I don't know how. Crimean tobacco growing was strangled.
                        Maybe this is a purely Crimean problem. but no. I was in Western Ukraine, they actually ruined the cultivation of sugar beets, they are switching to cane, and I saw its natural mountains there. Probably, if in Western Ukraine there was complete order in the work in the countryside, then there would be no Maidans.
                        Somehow he asked the passing boys - do you want a part-time job in your free time? Collect raspberries, tie up. The work is not dusty. Children are pleased to have their own penny.

                        Of course, my little one picked up like that, only in the city. But in the village, and his father is not able to grow raspberries? Or is he not able to sell it, because someone grabbed the market? You think about my questions and understand why my grandfathers defeated yours.
                      9. zloybond
                        zloybond 4 December 2022 19: 28
                        -1
                        By berry - the parents of children come to us to hire. But after receiving the money in their hands, they drink it away. And now these children are dressed, fed, with their coin in their pocket. Resentment, snot and spitting of those who were kicked out - It happens like that.
                        ... The berry also has to think about how to sell it. There are large agricultural firms. We decide, we think.
                        I wrote - yes, at one time they started selling both meat and honey to dealers. Then they set up sales...
                        ... The bakery - my mother once was in charge of a large production. when moving, I had to start with milkmaids, then I took over the farm. I have always dreamed of my own bakery. We helped.
                        It was more difficult with grain. In the beginning, I had to sell from under the combine. There was nowhere to store. They gave it away for a penny. We have built a storage facility - now we can hold it up to a good price. Now everyone is howling that farmers do not want to give grain for a penny. Well, let the large agricultural firms give it back. Farmers are not idiots. Settled in storage. And then, of course, it is beneficial for agricultural firms to keep abroad. The grain has been used.
                        Yana complicate what is already on the surface. I give people jobs if I can give them. And I hope to do more. Just give me time. You just have to break into several cities and activities. But Leaving the office near the Kremlin, the hotel by the sea, my brother and I come to the village, take up shovels and work hard again and again. Might grow something useful.
                      10. Alexander Salenko
                        Alexander Salenko 5 December 2022 11: 01
                        0
                        But after receiving the money in their hands, they drink it away.

                        You do not confuse the modern village and that And on the subject of swell, in the household that my mother's friend had, her husband drank. But I went to Germany for 4 months and brought a Ford from there, a good roofer, and Ford then ... well, about like a Gelik now.
                        But the question is not about him, but about what you can swell. I agree with you, they blow. And earlier in the village booze, and families with underage children. But they plowed too, it seems to be combined weakly, but it combines, they thumped when there is no work, I, as a seasonal worker, will tell you that this is also observed in our tourism. To do when there is nothing to do, as now, in winter, and a person sits down on a glass. But he buys the contents of this very glass with his own money, and does not go around, begging that he needs to get there, or honestly admit that there is not enough for a bubble.
                        Now everyone is howling that farmers do not want to give grain for a penny.

                        Naturally, they are buyers, I would not want to sell grain for a penny either, and the logic here is simple, grow it yourself and when you grow it, do you want to sell it for a penny? I have always been interested in this question, am I a Timurov team? Somehow I got a call if you were taking people to Mangup, and this is a hillfort on the top, it’s not that hard to climb there, but it’s delayed in time, and I’m not a boy myself. At the age of 18, I took off there in 25 minutes, participated in excavations, and now I need more time and people are at least 40 minutes. I ask what is there for the money, 3 rubles - are they crazy or what? It’s not difficult for me to make a calculation, who got what and how much, and why should I work cheaply? In such situations myself, I would pay 4. at least, or even all would be 5.
                        There may be a question of my hiring and you yourself are hiring, but this is about the same thing, the question is why I don’t want to sell my efforts for cheap.
                        And then, of course, it is beneficial for agricultural firms to keep abroad.

                        So they have more opportunities, the current realities are unknown to me, but the past ones are known. So in one reference book on the Russian Empire it was said that a simple peasant handed over grain at purchase prices, a kulak, as when, and the landowner held free prices. I believe that large agricultural firms behave in much the same way.
                        I give people jobs if I can give them.

                        If you remember, the Soviet state guaranteed the right to work. I also give someone a job, albeit temporarily and not in your volume. And although they sometimes suck up in front of me, I am well aware that I give something to someone, because I myself can’t take it away. And it would not hurt you to understand this, because the argument is that:
                        But Leaving the office near the Kremlin, the hotel by the sea, my brother and I come to the village, take up shovels and work hard again and again.

                        works frankly poorly. It works, but, again, weakly. The fact that you yourself can do it is good, and what is the difference between those who take up shovels when you and your brother do not leave the office?
                        Firstly, I'm not sure that your grandchildren are capable of the same thing, and now they don't teach this in schools. When I first came to the excavations as a green kid, I was 13 years old then, I knew what to do with a shovel children don't have it. This is your organization, you will pass it on by inheritance. And so on. There will be an alienation. You understand the land, what to do with it, for example, although I myself don’t, I don’t understand. I can still take care of cattle, but I have no experience in growing grain.
                        The same dachas that were distributed in Soviet times, so that it would be like my grandfather who moved to the cities, they will exercise, there is a craving.
                        And the thinking of an urban person is arranged differently. Well, my father's grandfather got stuck: get yourself a plot. We planted potatoes there, but there were no guards and our crops were dug up by others, and that was it.
                        What you say about shovels makes you the same hard worker in your eyes, who had the brains to organize everything so correctly that now you give work. the rest.
                        I also give work, with the only difference being that when I give and when I give, as I said above. But let's be frank, those who work their salaries also know how to work hard. And, for example, they went on strike for a couple of weeks, and you have a contract failure. Throw them out? This practiced, called lockouts. to create unemployment and for people like you to say: I give work.
                        It. my dear interlocutor, and from the conversation you can always see whether a person understands or not, if the conversation is everyday and not on the topic of whether there is life on Mars. You are exactly on the topic, and sorry for the cissoshnik. But there is one problem and it is that without you. those who receive a salary can live. And you don’t exist without them, despite the ability to dig with a shovel. This is called the contradiction between labor and capital.
                        And in your question of farming, it will not be those who work for you that will put pressure on you, but those large agricultural holdings, if they don’t already put pressure on you. They have stupidly more money and connections. They can dump, for example, or legally put spokes in your wheels.
                        Remember, I told you that I do not bargain with the peasants? So I bought in spontaneous markets, because the official ones were crushed by pressure. We, back in Ukraine, had a whole campaign about that. why you can’t buy from naturalists, there some products are not certified. And that same mother's friend brought the milk on which my children grew up to the market and handed it over for a penny, and it became certified. And how I bought other people from her personally from her hands - illegal trade.
                      11. zloybond
                        zloybond 4 December 2022 20: 05
                        -1
                        And it's hard for you to admit that you are an exploiter.
                        Did you achieve it with your own strength? Probably, although I doubt it, but let's say there were no jobs left in the countryside, so they asked you to.

                        Somewhere above, I already wrote about disagreements with my father on hiring people.
                        The father is no more. There were no jobs in the countryside. I threw the problems of strangers back to Russia. We returned, consulted and began to work hard. People come, look, someone asks for help (we pay for help)
                        There were many times the desire to sell everything and forget their worries. His above the roof. But we decided to do business. Others do. We are not the only ones spinning. There are normal people there. Otherwise, the village will collapse again. That's how we live. What will we see.
                      12. Alexander Salenko
                        Alexander Salenko 5 December 2022 11: 13
                        0
                        You understand me correctly, I do not reproach, and in your place I would behave in about the same way. And. if I don't like the worker, then I can easily not invite him anymore. Or invite less often. When the mobilization started, a bunch of Crimean Tatars were kicked off, sorry, who went where, but my trip fell through, you can imagine how I cursed what was happening. Tatars ride small buses like a sprinter, or a Volkswagen LT. I found cars, so wild jealousy arose, why not us?
                        You, as a business person, understand that a reputation is earned for a long time. and turns around in one moment. And then one Tatar sees that I found another bus with a guy with a kind of Ryazan face, and tells me, and my son is standing today. Well, it will be tomorrow. What I said about Friday, for example, there I generally had a hired database participant in Yugoslavia. our Russian paratrooper, and I'm scratching my turnip and why the hell haven't I pulled him before. I know that for 17 years.
                        So your difficulties, adjusted for ignorance of a particular case, are clear to me. and staffing issues are about the same.
                      13. Alexander Salenko
                        Alexander Salenko 3 December 2022 09: 40
                        0
                        Looks like anger is on the rise. It's all about the destruction of the church.

                        Apparently yes, the scale, but you did not think for what reason? Maybe this very anger had a reason, or do you consider all the priests to be infallible? I don’t think, and when my father died, my grandmother often went to church and the priest whispered that a cross should be knocked out on the monument. What the hell is this from zhirtres poking his nose into other than his own business, can you tell me? When the obligatory prayer was canceled in 1917, about a third of the fighters of the active army stopped attending it. This is not the majority, but, you see, not a small part. At the same time, many people kept their faith. My grandfather, for example, naively believed that communism could be combined with Orthodoxy. Marry Them But the church is a human organization and nothing human is alien to it.
                        The collective farm where the parents came was serious. The leader was unlucky. The fish rots from the head.

                        Is it better to live in serfdom? The fact that Alexander 2 canceled it so there was a conversation that either we will cancel it from above, or it will be canceled from below. I understand that you are for your ancestors, but the Soviet government, for example, gave education to my ancestors, as well as yours, by the way. I do not consider the peasants stupid, they were smart in their own way, but, for example. Obolensky describes how the same peasants killed doctors during the outbreak of cholera, believing that they bring the infection. He also described the degradation of the nobility and the Cossacks would follow, and your ideas about some kind of heavenly reality do not correspond to reality. I do not argue that personally your ancestors were not bad. but the vast majority was frankly bad.
                        At the beginning of the last century, the average age of a Russian peasant was 33 years old, you will hear this figure. It is clear that this is approximately the same as the average temperature in a hospital, but with the development of capitalism, the peasants began to eat even worse and the military, your colleagues, were the first to address the problem of nutrition. Because the conscripts, for example, began to manifest such a wonderful sore as malaise. Many in the army tried meat for the first time, the diet of the military of the tsarist army was normal, if nothing interfered. By the way, my father was making fun of the reason for the uprising on the battleship Potemkin, wormy meat, he saw meat in the army when my mother came to visit him.
                        But this is in the armed forces, and in the countryside everything was frankly bad, as by the way even now, for example, a 3-liter can of goat's milk is taken for 60 rubles. and they sell for 300. And what do you think, do modern peasants have any complaints about these characters?
                        As for me. I am military

                        Guessed from the speech. tsipsoshnik would hysteria, so I apologize.
                        So I collected 60 hectares. On which I now have grain, berry fields, sheep.

                        I also exploit people, although not so qualitatively. But to those whom I hire, I give a stable 3 rubles, my uncle at a construction site has men donkey for 2. but I am also an exploiter like you.
                        I gave people jobs, I work myself, sometimes I am up to my elbows in shit. Differently. Then I put on a suit, I go to the capital, and no one will say that yesterday I was in shit, today from Versace.

                        There is nothing shameful in work if it is not prostitution or drug trafficking, but fortunately I don’t need to wear suits and ties. But someone can’t and you don’t understand what I see on my children, they are teenagers. That's what I'm earning now, they consider it a given, the idea that they will have to plow themselves comes, but very weakly. And since I come across children at work, I can safely tell you that many children of rich pinocchio women are generally poorly adequate, and they pull the rest with them.
                        Some kids grew up and became managers. You know, if I worked like they did, I would be left without a piece of bread. I am engaged in tourism, I send a group to Dreamwood Park, so the rides, I have more than an hour of children could not go there. Until Gref, and this is his diocese. I can't get through. for him it's a trifle. And I can't give it to the head either. There is one punishment left, just do not carry it there. But managers sit on salaries and personally they don't care. In this regard, it is easier for me to work directly with merchants, we understand each other. or persons interested in money in the results of their work.
                        But you raised the topic of the peasantry and now rewind how this peasantry lived. This is a large mass of people, the workers, by the way, also lived no better. One of the requirements of the workers is to be called on you, they are specialists and a specialist requires respect.
                      14. zloybond
                        zloybond 3 December 2022 12: 09
                        -1
                        Peasantry:
                        - I was just driving home, I remembered one fact, my grandfather told me, but according to the documents it is so. My ancestors are one of the founders of the village of Belovodskaya. The basis of the Semirechensk army was formed by the combined detachments of the Cossack troops .... The Governor General of Turkestan organized a special resettlement program to attract peasants and settle in Central Asia. Every year I will not specify exactly according to the program (let it be conditional) 200 Cossack and 200 peasant families were resettled.
                        Grandmother said (10 years old, in 14 the family moved) we traveled from Gulyai-Pole for a year in a cart. Father walked, because. the working horse was then alone, and the war horse walked on the reins. He couldn't be pulled. Upon arrival, they received a lift. My father (great-grandfather) bought the land, also rented it, and they plowed and sowed there, respectively, and my father also served as a Cossack, leaving every 3 months to serve on the border with a detachment. He was replaced in the field by his wife and children.
                        So the grandfather and grandmother told such a story that the migrants who arrived, having received lifting allowances, acted differently. Someone went straight to work. Someone began to celebrate these lifting. This is how the Cossack and peasant poor were born. Having drunk what was given, there was nothing left to do but go to the same ones, the same who reacted differently to a chance in life and somehow tried to change something in life.
                        Another story from my grandfather. In the village there was one migrant from the peasantry (I studied with his granddaughter). He came inconspicuous on foot, but brought his belongings with a horse and cart. Having received lifting money, he folded it with his stash, borrowed from people and built a mill and an oil press (or whatever it is called correctly there). Well, he lived, worked, repaid debts, took assistants from "stupid migrants." Everything would be fine. Everything seems to have gone. He lives on his own, the workers do not starve. And a revolution happened. The poor there got together and decided - why is he fattening when we work for him. They came and kicked him out of the mill. He only says that something went wrong, they got too drunk, when they celebrated a new acquisition in the collective farm, the belts broke. The mill stood up. They went to the former owner to give spare. (And take that one from resentment and drown those belts). Well, the evil poor from the hangover hung it right there in the yard. Different stories, different situations. Who would say - a pest. Yes, like no. He worked, built, did not drink, gave people work, bread for the house - but this is how life unfolded.
                        My grandfather's grandmother was waiting from the war. There are few of her children, she took the children of her brother who disappeared at the front from the orphanage (the wife went crazy when she received the funeral, the children went to the orphanage, she went to the durka) She went to the neighboring village, found it, brought it, then raised it, brought it up. She never said anything bad about the Soviet regime. But we walk past the brigade (the former village council) with my grandfather - he says this is the house, my father built it. The collective farm no longer exists, that country does not exist. And on Google maps, this house in panoramas still stands with the first iron roof in the village. And those who built this new country (their descendants are leaders) - having privatized the property of the country, now they live well and nothing that once the property was squeezed out from others in the same way - The cycle of owners in nature.
                        People broke out of poverty in different ways and became poor in different ways.
                        After the service, my father was an engineer at a factory. Because of the health of the mother, he left the factory, the house, and they went to the village. It was necessary to change the climate, for one thing turned out to be the country. Mother had high blood pressure, had heart attacks. He first sat on a tractor, then took over the brigade. Here was my father's tractor driver - golden hands and a rotten throat. He will assemble a tractor from a pile of iron, plow, sow .. And then he will get drunk or burn or drown. Drunk. And so he remained a worthless peasant. And it was a pity for my father to expel him until the last. And as he says, he will live, he will die of hunger.
                        And the other was poor, he could barely make ends meet. Dad took him, taught him, put him on a tractor. He worked, the children grew up. Dad has already retired, the collective farm has collapsed. Who drank land shares for a pack of tea and a bottle of vodka. I redeemed from those who did not care about the land.
                        But the second one is not. He worked, in debt, bought equipment, his sons helped. He didn't miss his chance. Now a big farmer.
                        Both are from peasants. Both are from the poor. BUT both disposed of their chance differently.
                        Mom, after a delay between entering the military school for a year, called me to her farm. She got a dying farm. 14 piglets and a lame horse. She retired and rented out a farm: 3,5 thousand pigs, 3,5 thousand sheep, 50 bulls, 64 cows and a bunch of calves, 36 horses, a meat shop, and a lot of other property .... A team of local peasants came. And there is no more from that stone farm. And we began again with my brother to raise the earth ourselves ...
                        Yes, it's a pity my daughters are torn from the village. Ride the world with me. The diplomatic service is more attractive to them. Let's see what will happen. BUT the older two classes in a row in the summer work until night. Saving up for repeaters, wants to act.
                        I've been watching this little girl for years. She lived in a neighboring village. Went to our school. On foot. Mom is a milkmaid. lived modestly. Every day 7 km there, 7 km back. It is clear that sometimes they will give a lift. People are not animals, they will not pass by. But not always. So she grew up in front of my eyes and in the heat and in the rain and in the frost, entered, graduated from the institute. Works. Thank God everything worked out. BUT what a character!
                        About Churchmen:
                        At school, in an atheism lesson, I took it and blurted out: Why then does everyone and grandfather Lenin and Stalin and Brezhnev and the headmaster and the Komsomol organizer say Thank you comrades!??? This is in reality from God Save Comrades!???. ... Almost expelled from school. The mother was already in the party. They called to the school. She said at home - keep your mouth shut. I already knew then that my mother secretly took me and baptized me as a child))) There were times.
                        They lived like this, they thought differently, they spoke differently in the kitchen.
                        And in fact, we are surprised by double standards .....
                        People do not understand Lavrov's work, but all they need to understand is one thing - you need to stroke a rabid dog until the muzzle is ready. And he constantly stroked these rabid dogs until Russia stood up and prepared muzzles.
                      15. Alexander Salenko
                        Alexander Salenko 3 December 2022 20: 17
                        0
                        So the grandfather and grandmother told such a story that the migrants who arrived, having received lifting allowances, acted differently. Someone went straight to work. Someone began to celebrate these lifting. This is how the Cossack and peasant poor were born.

                        Uh-huh, and when a peasant in the 4th generation, what kind of lifting did he live on? Excuse me, tryndeli your ancestors.
                        This may sound offensive, but I'm sorry. I personally encountered something similar. When the Tatars returned to Crimea, they are strangers, with their own mentality. at the same time, they tell how hardworking they were, how cool they lived under the Crimean Khanate. Only Russian soldiers, yesterday's serfs, were stunned by the wretchedness of the life of the Crimean Tatars.
                        So what you were told is not entirely true, but, as you said, its own truth, and my ancestors had their own. We only have one country.
  3. agoran
    agoran 25 November 2022 20: 05
    +4
    In Chuguev there was not a bad airfield. If the fuel base was gouged, it’s not bad anymore.
    1. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 25 November 2022 20: 42
      +3
      Two majors have a test vidos, ODAB 500 in the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbSpornoe. Yes, well, fall under such a plop. Konoshenkov will not count at all tomorrow.
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 25 November 2022 21: 30
      +4
      Quote: agoran
      In Chuguev was not a bad airfield

      Chuguev is already famous for the fact that since 1938, by order of the NPO of the USSR, the Chuguev Aviation School of Fighter Pilots was formed there, which he graduated from, and then worked as an instructor in it, and Ivan Kozhedub, Hero of the Soviet Union, left it to fight three times.
  4. _Valery_
    _Valery_ 25 November 2022 20: 08
    +3
    Pshekov is fried. Good news. It needs to be repeated as often as possible.
  5. Christian Revuelta
    Christian Revuelta 25 November 2022 20: 17
    +7
    Good news, polish scum have what theg deserve. Send some more please
    1. Bingo
      Bingo 25 November 2022 21: 50
      0
      They'd better keep on cleaning toilets...
  6. Carlos Hall
    Carlos Hall 25 November 2022 20: 50
    +4
    Eliminate Polish wild geese
  7. Bingo
    Bingo 25 November 2022 21: 48
    +6
    flew over a certain "object of medical infrastructure", in which at the time of the impact there was no one.

    Hey, learn to lie! Name at least one such facility in which there is no staff. Even in the morgue
  8. withoutreverse
    withoutreverse 25 November 2022 21: 51
    +8
    iron and iron .. and only then attack.
  9. kill the fascist
    kill the fascist 25 November 2022 21: 59
    +3
    If about 300 ushlepkov got over two hundred, then this is just great news. More hits, more punches!
  10. Real Pilot
    Real Pilot 25 November 2022 22: 05
    +1
    Quote: Leshak
    In the morgue there are a lot of bodies of mercenaries, the same Poles, they have heavy losses.

    And it's very, very good! good

    Pinch feathers to "wild geese" ...
    And stuffed with lead apples!
  11. faterdom
    faterdom 25 November 2022 23: 45
    +4
    I don’t even know who to be more happy for, for the Bandera people, or for the Poles.
    Probably, at this stage it is even more useful to drive more Poles into the ground - the country is not at war (officially), but the losses are hundreds, if not thousands. Moreover, many are really personnel zholnezhi, and not soldiers of fortune.
    And this awl in a bag cannot be hidden for a long time, and Duda and Kachinsky will have to tell the Poles something - where and why their military personnel disappear in commercial quantities. And I don’t think that it will be directly easy, with all the everyday Russophobia (and there is also Ukrophobia) - sensitive losses of the army without goals and results can greatly undermine internal cohesion.
    It is only necessary for our and Belarusian media and bloggers to promote the topic.
  12. hump
    hump 26 November 2022 05: 19
    +1
    I do not believe in these hundreds of people killed. After all, in order for there to be so many losses, you need to get into the barracks and for the Ukrainians to burn
  13. Tor Vic
    Tor Vic 26 November 2022 09: 07
    0
    more than two hundredth mercenaries from all countries hostile to us!!!