Military Review

Problems with additional camouflage: UAV of the Armed Forces of Ukraine detected the Russian Tor-M1 air defense system in a forest plantation using an infrared tracking channel

116
Problems with additional camouflage: UAV of the Armed Forces of Ukraine detected the Russian Tor-M1 air defense system in a forest plantation using an infrared tracking channel

The active saturation of the troops of both sides of the conflict with reconnaissance drones is changing the rules of the game at the front. The practice of armed struggle, rooted in the army, needs to be adjusted taking into account the changed realities, otherwise the enemy will gain advantages on the battlefield, one of which was recorded on video filmed by an enemy UAV.


The Russian Tor-M1 air defense system performed a combat mission in the NVO zone, discovered an air target and fired at it. After that, the car made a retreat in order to change the strike position and disappeared into a forest plantation. However, all this time she was observed by a reconnaissance drone of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, as stated, a Polish-made FlyEye device (as can be seen from its characteristic “floating” image frame). Despite the fact that the Tor was hidden from observation from above by the foliage of trees, it was detected by the operator of the Ukrainian UAV when switching from an optical tracking channel to infrared.

As a result, the enemy artillery received the coordinates of the air defense system and fired at the vehicle. The crew and equipment were saved by the fact that the projectile lay far from the position. After that, the video cuts off, but, as stated, the anti-aircraft complex successfully left the shelling zone, disrupting the "hunt" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

The ability of the enemy to detect a thermal trace during reconnaissance requires additional camouflage measures, for example, equipping equipment with sets of heat-insulating material. Such products have been developed and are even available in the army (in particular, the Cape kit), but the vast majority of combat vehicles are still not equipped with them despite the obvious threat.

Author:
116 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Aerodrome
    Aerodrome 25 November 2022 16: 11
    +45
    there are not enough helmets with armor, but you are talking about "capes" ... generals were preparing for the last war, as usual.
    1. dmi.pris1
      dmi.pris1 25 November 2022 16: 42
      +9
      It's still good if they were preparing for the last war ...
      1. Myths
        Myths 25 November 2022 16: 53
        +13
        Apparently the guys themselves will have to come up with something while our turnips are scratched. This technique should be covered from this. Especially now winter is on the nose and minus brilliant green.
        1. D16
          D16 25 November 2022 17: 17
          +6
          This technique should be covered from this.

          Fathers-commanders made a specific pro am am wow and someone has to answer for it. It's not about capes and thermal contrast of the car, but about the organization of service in the unit.
        2. svp67
          svp67 25 November 2022 17: 36
          +29
          Quote from Mitos
          This technique should be covered from this.

          But the question is, why was this UAV not spotted? How does he manage to fly next to the air defense system?
          And the thermal visibility of armored vehicles is not the main problem. Here is how to cover thermally the points and places of accommodation and heating of personnel, this is the problem of problems. A dugout or dugout identified by a heat trail will not leave its place
          1. Myths
            Myths 25 November 2022 18: 44
            +9
            There are many questions and in the organization of work of structure of division. Perhaps they led the complex before, but the thermal one can see the same in motion. Yes, and the equipment will not cool down immediately. The video shows that clearly followed. The guys left through the green. And what will happen when it all comes down?
          2. Alex777
            Alex777 25 November 2022 18: 52
            +9
            Quote: svp67
            But the question is, why was this UAV not spotted?

            Who was supposed to spot? How? He is small.
            TOR, by design, is just protection
            from small and low-flying targets.
            If he did not notice this UAV, then alas.

            The FlyEye UAV is a manufactured
            of composite materials high-wing aircraft
            three-blade propeller and electric motor.
            Take-off weight is 11 kg, length - 1,9 m, wingspan - 3,6 m.
            The duration of the flight depends
            weather conditions and a number of other factors and ranges from 120 to 180 minutes.
            The UAV is launched by hand.
            Maximum speed - 160 km / h.
            The maximum flight altitude is up to 4 km.
            The maximum flight range is 50 km.
            The UAV is equipped with a video camera and a thermal imager.
            1. Simple
              Simple 25 November 2022 23: 54
              +1
              Quote: Alex777
              Who was supposed to spot? How?



              All drones used in Ukraine have one characteristic feature - they all have at least one propeller. So far, no one has bothered with measures to reduce acoustic noise (like on submarines), so something like an acoustic AFAR can be done.
          3. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 25 November 2022 20: 36
            +9
            But because he did not work or was without ammunition, and at the same time he was alone! In this case, it should have been covered by another such complex, but it didn’t exist. This is a real cant in the organization, this needs to be dealt with.
            1. Tavrik
              Tavrik 25 November 2022 20: 56
              +8
              Here, either put on an electromagnetic suppressor of drone control channels for each Thor and Shell, or make a special air defense system for working on Maviks and other small things.
              1. Herman 4223
                Herman 4223 26 November 2022 16: 09
                +1
                Mavik and other trifles Thor or shell with their radars will drown out well. Here, surveillance was clearly a different device, and it was supposed to be overwhelmed by another complex covering the idle torus. And there was no cover, this is a jamb that could lead to the destruction of expensive equipment.
          4. Zug
            Zug 25 November 2022 20: 46
            0
            They have UAVs up to one place. We have one of them, 4 of them. At least it was like that in the summer and our drones are squeezed out only in this way blocking control.
          5. petroglyph
            petroglyph 26 November 2022 14: 20
            +5
            It is necessary to make false heat spots. Type of stoves for testing only small sizes and place them in hundreds at a safe distance. It's much easier than capes. Moreover, it is possible to imitate an object of almost any shape. In the daytime it is more difficult, but at night it is quite.
          6. guerilla707
            guerilla707 29 November 2022 00: 41
            -1
            Remains dugout on wheels, sad irony
        3. Vicontas
          Vicontas 26 November 2022 22: 59
          -1
          During the Chechen war, the reconnaissance group searched for "Czechs" in the greenery. Thermal imagers showed the absence of the enemy, but when the group entered the greenfield, they almost immediately stumbled upon the militants! They were wrapped over camouflage with a foil film - such as the one that sticks glass from the sun. This method should be used when there is no regular "Cape". Either a film or food foil sold in any market and pasted with adhesive tape on a tarpaulin.
          1. Wolf
            Wolf 27 November 2022 12: 34
            -1
            Obnakoveniya Aluminum foil, which is used to sew up car windows, is completely enough and it is very cheap, and the Chinese let it in in huge quantities. But the necessary brains and quickly do it !!!
            It is suitable not only for sewing up equipment and personnel at night !!!
          2. white fall
            white fall 28 November 2022 08: 50
            +2
            It’s a good bike, it’s a pity it’s nonsense, because you can take the heat off for a while, but it just comes out anyway and no foil will help, otherwise all the tanks would be glued like this bullshit
          3. Alexander Fomichev
            Alexander Fomichev 29 November 2022 01: 02
            0
            Adhesive tape at negative temp. comes off like a husk.
            My "analysis" led to an OZK with a "double-sided energy flex" glued on the outside. and a mandatory night sight or immediately with a thermal imager, otherwise Go out, shoot a sentry, throw in a dugout / dugout, your line and don't fucking "fight" during the day at all. passing through mines in a day you can look out with binoculars. Roll a club in front of you, or lead a mine-catcher .. Your frontier.
        4. nickname7
          nickname7 27 November 2022 06: 55
          0
          It is impossible to hide from the heat. We need another way - to detect the drone through the radio exchange channel, or with the drone's detector.
          1. Alexander Fomichev
            Alexander Fomichev 29 November 2022 01: 04
            -1
            bed a large mass that disperses a smoky trail, throw in snow or soil in such a way that there is only a gray trail on the "teplak". never in the midst of darkness or emptiness, one can distinguish where it is gray, where it is less gray. logs in "three rolls" and .. rest.
      2. 1Alexey
        1Alexey 25 November 2022 17: 05
        +1
        The army needs to be increased on a permanent basis by 2 times, or even 3 times!
        For a territory like the Russian Federation, 1,1 million is not enough.
        In Soviet times, the USSR had an army of 5 million. Since then, the length of our borders has not decreased much.
        1. Graz
          Graz 25 November 2022 17: 13
          +1
          so the USSR was 2 times larger in terms of population than the Russian Federation. and 18% of world GDP was from the USSR, and only 2% from Russia, so we can’t pull the army as you suggest, you don’t just have to play agreements with the West and spare the enemy considering him a friendly people. just who is confused
          1. 1Alexey
            1Alexey 25 November 2022 17: 26
            -1
            Quote: Graz
            so the USSR was 2 times more in terms of population than the Russian Federation

            Not true! The population of the USSR was 250 million, the population of the Russian Federation - 140 million.
            So the army had to be proportionally reduced: 140/250x5 = 2,8 million.

            Quote: Graz
            you don’t just have to play bargains with the West and spare the enemy considering him a friendly people. just who is confused

            But in this I agree with you.
            1. Herman 4223
              Herman 4223 25 November 2022 20: 41
              +6
              250 million was according to the census of the 60s. By the time of the collapse, the population of the USSR was 290 million people, so essentially twice, well, the average age of a person was younger.
            2. Deon59
              Deon59 26 November 2022 08: 54
              +8
              We have the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the National Guard, the Federal Social Security Service, they should be thrown into the second line to protect the border areas.
              1. Machiavelli
                Machiavelli 26 November 2022 15: 40
                0
                Rosgvadia will say we did not sign up for this. So in May, the Krasnodar National Guardsmen said.
        2. svp67
          svp67 25 November 2022 17: 38
          +17
          Quote: 1Alexey
          The army needs to be increased on a permanent basis by 2 times, or even 3 times!

          It is not the army that needs to be increased, but the active reserve of the army should be increased. And train this reserve and maintain it.
          1. 1Alexey
            1Alexey 25 November 2022 17: 53
            +2
            Quote: svp67
            It is not the army that needs to be increased, but the active reserve of the army should be increased. And train this reserve and maintain it.

            In fact, this is the same as returning to a 2-year conscription service, which will already lead to an increase in the number of trained army.

            Soldiers become trained by the end of the 1st year of service, but now, at this time, they are subject to demobilization.
            1. Ryaruav
              Ryaruav 25 November 2022 18: 06
              +1
              Alexey, a two-year-old will not help, the only way out is in leopards, but of course, so that everything is in the mind
              1. 1Alexey
                1Alexey 25 November 2022 18: 37
                0
                Quote: Ryaruav
                Alexey, a two-year-old will not help, the only way out is in leopards, but of course, so that everything is in the mind

                Bars are not a panacea. You will compare the current strength of these formations and what percentage they make up of the total strength of our troops participating in the NMD.

                How, for example, to get a permanent reserve, passing every year at least 3-month military retraining.
                Not so many in peacetime, among civilians, there are those who want to leave their family and work for 3 months every year. If, however, such a reserve is formed by conscription, then this will actually mean an increase in the size of the conscript army.
                1. Kotofeich
                  Kotofeich 25 November 2022 18: 51
                  +1
                  How about in Switzerland?
                  information.useful is not the opinion of the site administration
                2. Zug
                  Zug 25 November 2022 20: 53
                  0
                  The leopard and the army-sun are completely different things. This is how to compare the comparable. Here they said: There ............ field, cross it and secure. x from here. In plain text.
                3. the most important
                  the most important 25 November 2022 22: 33
                  0
                  Quote: 1Alexey
                  How, for example, to get a permanent reserve, passing every year at least 3-month military retraining.
                  Not so many in peacetime, among civilians, there are those who want to leave their family and work for 3 months every year.

                  But I, after another "reformer" completely reduced our unit, would be happy to continue serving on such conditions for another ten years. Now, of course, the age is not the same, but at that time it would have been ideal for me.
                  1. 1Alexey
                    1Alexey 25 November 2022 23: 07
                    0
                    Quote: the most important
                    But I, after another "reformer" completely reduced our unit, would be happy to continue serving on such conditions for another ten years. Now, of course, the age is not the same, but at that time it would have been ideal for me.

                    It's fine! And there are still such people, as today's reservists working under such conditions say, but there are relatively few of them and they will not solve the problem of a significant increase in the army in the event of a conflict.
          2. AAK
            AAK 25 November 2022 18: 50
            +7
            We need both an army in a larger number, and an active mobilization reserve, and for this we need both NVP at school, and an urgent 2-year and annual training for 2-3 weeks by reservists (with payment as for working hours), and it is also necessary (as , for example, in Israel or Cyprus) the reservist should have at home service small arms with ammunition and a set of equipment (clothes, shoes, backpacks, unloading, helmets, armor, gas mask, first aid kit, MSL, etc. - signal collection - and after one and a half to two hours, the fully prepared reservist arrives either at the assembly point or immediately at the assigned unit ... and that’s all ...)
            1. 1Alexey
              1Alexey 25 November 2022 21: 33
              0
              Quote: AAK
              We need a larger army, and an active mobilization reserve, and for this we need both NVP at school, and an urgent one of 2 years and an annual 2-3 week training by reservists (with payment as for working time)

              I agree with you only for a period of 2-3 weeks a year - this is a very short period, now reservists are training for 3 months a year.
              Only after all, at the beginning of the NMD, Putin announced that not only conscripts, but also reservists would not be sent to the NMD zone.

              You can distribute equipment to homes, but weapons with ammo are dangerous. There are different options here:
              - personal unreasonable use;
              - taking possession of family members (not everyone has a safe for a machine gun with cartridges at home);
              - theft by criminals who, for the sake of taking possession of weapons, will seek to rob reservists.
              Foreign experience is not always suitable here, each nation at different periods of time had a different mentality (for example, in Soviet times, most cars did not have an alarm, as well as iron doors in apartments, and intercoms in front doors, and at the same time there were very few thefts ).
              1. Alexander Fomichev
                Alexander Fomichev 29 November 2022 01: 10
                0
                that's right, sentry "2" had his head hanging on the headphones in the player, sentry "2A" descended from the tower "two bullet holes in the back" from an AKM sentry with a cut off head. The result - two corpses and no 1AKM, 8 magazines, a kol.provolka on a concrete fence is slightly crushed, a "shred of a black jacket" in it. 02'96 military unit FSO, Moscow region.
            2. Mazunga
              Mazunga 26 November 2022 09: 26
              +1
              what you write is useful and correct, but in our realities of utopia, no one will distribute weapons to the people in our country, not Switzerland, at least in terms of living standards))) do you feel the level of danger?)))
        3. Jonny_Su
          Jonny_Su 26 November 2022 11: 18
          +2
          It's just stupid to increase the army, it is necessary that the structures be deployed if necessary, and the people be provided with uniforms and weapons. Not like now.
        4. trenkkvaz
          trenkkvaz 26 November 2022 15: 18
          +1
          It's funny that we talked about the fact that the generals were preparing for the last war, and you offer recipes from the war before last.
          You will have 2 million infantry, and an enemy will come to you, only 100 thousand, but armed with robots and drones, and will shoot your millions like in a shooting range.
      3. Eroma
        Eroma 26 November 2022 08: 42
        +1
        It’s good that they were preparing at all, at least for something! lol
        What is the principle of equipping the army? Who makes decisions about the procurement and implementation of different systems?
        If we take commerce, there is a rule: demand forms supply, i.e. desires of buyers leads to the supply of goods.
        It can also be done in the army, as in ancient times: the ministry issues permission to adopt a system for supply and information is sent to units, and commanders give a request to the quartermaster about the need, and they already buy everything they need through their service bully then you can immediately see who is to blame for the presence or absence of any necessary
      4. Ponimatel
        Ponimatel 26 November 2022 09: 18
        0
        Rather not prepared.
        Sorry, I'm not smart enough to write a normal comment and in the opinion of the site administration does not carry useful information--> Sorry, I'm not smart enough to write a normal comment.
    2. Vrotkompot
      Vrotkompot 25 November 2022 16: 52
      -1
      they were getting ready for the barbecue season at the most.
    3. svp67
      svp67 25 November 2022 17: 33
      -5
      Quote: Aerodrome
      helmets with armor are not enough

      Who went to the NWO zone not provided with a protective helmet and body armor? Why are you speeding it up?
      It's another matter that these are far from "spetsnaz feldepers", but nevertheless they are all equipped.
      1. seamen2
        seamen2 25 November 2022 20: 40
        +2
        *Who went to the NWO zone not provided with a protective helmet and body armor? Why are you speeding it up?
        It's another matter that these are far from "spetsnaz feldepers", but nevertheless, all are equipped *.
        so it is. but the question is tormenting - was it really impossible to supply these 300 thousand with first-class equipment and uniforms. Is it really such an unbearable task for the state.
        1. svp67
          svp67 25 November 2022 21: 48
          0
          Quote from seamen2
          so it is. but the question is tormenting - was it really impossible to supply these 300 thousand people?

          With all the desire, this, of course, had to be done ... But what is possible, then it is possible ...
          1. seamen2
            seamen2 25 November 2022 22: 59
            +1
            yes, here it is .. and we may have loans distributed to Syrians and Lukashenkas and protchim millions of dollars. and forgiven debts.
            where will their mobilized get it with such a distribution to the right and left ..
            strangers, they come out more native. they need more.
            1. sgrabik
              sgrabik 26 November 2022 10: 55
              +6
              Well, yes, if we also take into account the billions pocketed and withdrawn by the oligarchs to foreign banks and our oil and gas assets arrested in Western banks, then everything immediately becomes clear, the liberals continue to look back at the West and flirt with it in the hope that after some time again everything will be as it was before, but it will not be as it was before, no matter how hard they try.
              1. seamen2
                seamen2 26 November 2022 13: 28
                +1
                in light of this, I was encouraged by the news of the recognition of Russia as a *terrorist state*.
                On the one hand, it's not good. on the other hand, the Eurekas consider the Kremlins to be war criminals. prepare the fate of Milosevic for them. in general, * partners * do not hide this already.
                and in order not to repeat it, they HAVE to win. Winners are known not to be judged. or wellcome to Milosevic's cell. with the same result.
            2. Machiavelli
              Machiavelli 26 November 2022 15: 46
              -1
              Now they also give refugees 2 lyamas. And they get stoned and yelling glory to Ukraine.
              1. seamen2
                seamen2 26 November 2022 15: 49
                0
                I don't know about refugees. what is given to them. but .. on a dating site, I recently saw a ukrochert living in Moscow posted a photo against the background of a blocky ensign spread out on the sofa.
                1. Machiavelli
                  Machiavelli 27 November 2022 07: 32
                  0
                  We have a video on WhatsApp in the Kuban. In the dzhugba, a young guy is tied to a gurney and shouts glory to Ukraine and I beat your girls. Obviously screwed up.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
        2. ZenKoriolan
          ZenKoriolan 27 November 2022 09: 45
          -1
          Quote from seamen2
          *Who went to the NWO zone not provided with a protective helmet and body armor? Why are you speeding it up?
          It's another matter that these are far from "spetsnaz feldepers", but nevertheless, all are equipped *.
          so it is. but the question is tormenting - was it really impossible to supply these 300 thousand with first-class equipment and uniforms. Is it really such an unbearable task for the state.

          You need to steal less. As one deputy said, 1.5 million sets of warriors should be in warehouses. This is enough to dress a million reservists. Where are these sets?
    4. VPK-65
      VPK-65 25 November 2022 20: 06
      -1
      Quote: Aerodrome
      generals were preparing for the last war, as usual
      Or maybe they're just... blown away? Let me briefly remind you what they seemed to be preparing for: "Inflatable" troops, "Inflatable division", the 45th separate engineering camouflage regiment, etc.
      So that the enemy does not understand that he was "cheated", the most modern technical innovations are used, including radar и thermal simulators weapons.
      Well, where is this 45th with its thermal simulators? Blown away?
    5. avg avg
      avg avg 26 November 2022 06: 13
      +1
      Tell me, please, in more detail, how many helmets with armor did you personally lack and where?
    6. seacap
      seacap 26 November 2022 11: 52
      +1
      If they were preparing for the last war, then helmets and bulletproof vests, like everything else, would just be enough, there would be no so-called. reforms according to Hollywood advertisements, and instead of an expeditionary parade biathlon expeditionary corps, a branch of the Ministry of Emergency Situations, there would be a full-fledged continental army, with the traditions of the Russian army, and not hired landsknechts.
  2. Michael
    Michael 25 November 2022 16: 14
    +5
    Accordingly, drone fighter drones are needed, preferably automatic ones with more or less Artificial Intelligence.
    1. Alex777
      Alex777 25 November 2022 16: 28
      +6
      First you need to learn how to detect enemy drones.
      When you find it, you can either tick or exterminate. hi
      1. Michael
        Michael 25 November 2022 17: 14
        0
        VNOS posts were perfectly observed visually and acoustically. Air raids on Moscow in 41-42 were useless due to catastrophic losses of bombers, only a third of those who flew back often returned, and this was without radar and satellite constellation))).
        What prevents you from optically detecting potential threats, and then pointing a directional microphone to find out if it's a crow or a "helicopter"? A little bit of Artificial Intelligence and operators are not needed. Why are mines with acoustic and IF sensors allowed and killing people, but drones cannot exterminate drones?
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 25 November 2022 18: 26
          +5
          Quote: Michael
          What prevents you from optically detecting potential threats, and then pointing a directional microphone to find out if it's a crow or a "helicopter"? A bit of artificial intelligence...

          What's stopping you? Much.
          1. Weather.
          2. Dimensions of the UAV.
          3. The range of the directional microphone.
          Do you think a directional microphone is kilometers?
          4. UAV flight altitude, etc. etc.
          AI is never too much or too little. He either is, or he is not.
          I'm a little on the subject, so just trust me.
          1. Michael
            Michael 25 November 2022 22: 58
            +1
            1. In fog and snow, no one flies.
            2. Toli to Poland, roofing felts to Croatia, a jet flew, and there five meters are long.
            3. For 200 meters they record a conversation)))), is it really impossible to hear a buzz from a kilometer away?
            4. No more than 200 meters when throwing grenades. No more than 1,5 km when hovering.
            AI is even in my laptop. And I bought it in 2016)))).
            1. Alex777
              Alex777 26 November 2022 02: 20
              +2
              Last time:
              Quote: Michael
              1. In fog and snow, no one flies.

              They fly at night. And in the rain.

              Quote: Michael
              2. Toli to Poland, roofing felts to Croatia, a jet flew, and there five meters are long.

              lol

              Quote: Michael
              3. For 200 meters they record a conversation)))), is it really impossible to hear a buzz from a kilometer away?

              A moped can and will be heard, but the Pole has an electric motor.

              Quote: Michael
              4. No more than 200 meters when throwing grenades. No more than 1,5 km when hovering.

              When they started throwing grenades, it means you were too late to discover.
        2. ZenKoriolan
          ZenKoriolan 27 November 2022 10: 13
          0
          Quote: Michael
          VNOS posts were perfectly observed visually and acoustically. Air raids on Moscow in 41-42 were useless due to catastrophic losses of bombers, only a third of those who flew back often returned, and this was without radar and satellite constellation))).
          What prevents you from optically detecting potential threats, and then pointing a directional microphone to find out if it's a crow or a "helicopter"? A little bit of Artificial Intelligence and operators are not needed. Why are mines with acoustic and IF sensors allowed and killing people, but drones cannot exterminate drones?

          You compare the speed and size of the bomber and the speed and size of the UAV. As for the catastrophic losses, this is not so. Moscow's air defense was weak, and the raids were carried out by smaller forces than, for example, London.
          One of the reasons for the weakness of the Soviet air defense was the lack of radar. It was possible to liquidate it only in 1942-1943. thanks to Lend-Lease supplies. If during the entire war a little more than 600 radars were produced in the USSR, then 2400 high-quality radars were delivered from abroad. They, as well as the best Western fighter aircraft, went primarily into service with Moscow's air defense. The shortage of radars led to the fact that it was not possible to notify about enemy raids in time, and the air raid signal often sounded after the start of the bombardment. This explains the large number of victims among Muscovites. So, on October 28, 1941, a heavy high-explosive bomb that exploded on Gorky Street (now Tverskaya) killed more than a hundred people standing in line to buy bread cards. The siren did not have time to sound.
  3. prodi
    prodi 25 November 2022 16: 15
    0
    rather, solid "smoke" screens with creeping away somewhere to the side
    1. seregatara1969
      seregatara1969 25 November 2022 16: 28
      +4
      With the onset of cold weather, this problem will intensify even more!
      1. Evgenijus
        Evgenijus 25 November 2022 16: 59
        0
        Yes, I agree! Snow cover or frozen ground is like a background against which a hot engine is very visible. A system of planes and helicopters for firing heat traps for anti-aircraft missiles comes to mind. If a tank or other "hot object" is hiding in the forest, is it possible to imitate its parking with some hot objects? If you leave a few of them in the direction of the tank, and then back up and to the side ...
        1. Timur_kz
          Timur_kz 25 November 2022 23: 33
          -1
          So he did not even notice that he was being led! Traps also need to be shot in time, although there will most likely be smokes, but modern smokes are also hidden in the infrared range. The problem is when? Laser irradiation can be fixed, there are such on tanks, although there has not been a single fact of its use yet, at least by ear.
        2. Machiavelli
          Machiavelli 26 November 2022 15: 53
          0
          It seems that in Syria, our Kulibins changed their minds about hanging a bucket of burning fuel oil on a two-meter pole. Of course panacea so-so, but better than nothing.
  4. zenion
    zenion 25 November 2022 16: 17
    -3
    What harmful military! They don't want to take capes. This is climbing and clinging, at a time when the bat can easily beat the projectile to the side, even return it back. Or maybe the enemy force told them - the capes ran out?
    1. Alexander 3
      Alexander 3 25 November 2022 16: 24
      +4
      War is the implementation of a set of measures that allow some to survive, while others discover themselves and die.
  5. Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 25 November 2022 16: 27
    -3
    At the 9th month, it finally began to dawn on us that in the phrase "and whoever didn't hide, it's not my fault", besides a joke, there is also a bitter truth
  6. Andy_nsk
    Andy_nsk 25 November 2022 16: 34
    -2
    Why didn't Thor shoot down the drone?

    ????????????????????????????
  7. Bumblebee
    Bumblebee 25 November 2022 16: 36
    0
    Such products are developed and even available in the army (in particular, the Cape kit)
    There are suspicions that such products are not available in the army. Sorry for the pun))
  8. Mikhail Maslov
    Mikhail Maslov 25 November 2022 16: 50
    +1
    This has been written and spoken about since the beginning of the war. And this applies to all branches of the military. Strike, withdrawal, camouflage. Unfortunately, neglect of both changing positions and camouflage leads to losses. devoted to camouflage and covert movement.
  9. Bayun
    Bayun 25 November 2022 16: 50
    +1
    Conclusion? Positional war - in fact, the "defeat" of both sides. Today it makes sense, only a quick defeat of the enemy. Unfortunately, military practice is always ahead of "theory".

    The "war plan" is the first to die in a war.
  10. Tank destroyerSU-100
    Tank destroyerSU-100 25 November 2022 16: 59
    +8
    Now it’s clear why pins, dos were so hysterical that sighting platoons in each motorized rifle regiment were eliminated in our army. Each such platoon had 3 infantry fighting vehicles with laser emitters and 9 portable laser systems.
    And this sighting platoon was able to create a continuous zone of laser irradiation in the strip of the regiment. Of course, he could not burn armored vehicles, BUT! But all the optics that fell into the radiation band failed, became cloudy, and optoelectronic devices trivially burned out.
    If we had sighting platoons, UAVs of the Wehrmacht would come out in a matter of seconds as a means of observation. No, the UAVs themselves would not physically suffer, but their optical and optoelectronic filling would come completely and irrevocably to tryndets.
  11. vovochkarzhevsky
    vovochkarzhevsky 25 November 2022 17: 03
    +1
    This means only one thing, an unbuilt air defense system along the lines, with a near zone, a failure.
  12. orionvitt
    orionvitt 25 November 2022 17: 06
    +1
    Such products have been developed and are even available in the army (in particular, the Cape kit), however, the vast majority of combat vehicles are still not equipped
    Judging by the exhibitions and laudatory reports, everything has long been developed, but there is nothing in the army. This is how "Soviet pants" are worn.
  13. Leshak
    Leshak 25 November 2022 17: 16
    +1
    You can argue for a long time why and who is to blame. In this case, the key is:
    ... it is alleged that the anti-aircraft complex successfully left the shelling zone, disrupting the "hunt" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine ...
    good
  14. Dizel200
    Dizel200 25 November 2022 17: 48
    -1
    And if you look for a cape on Avito? They say they sell everything there wassat
  15. Sedoy
    Sedoy 25 November 2022 18: 31
    -2
    Such products have been developed and are even available in the army (in particular, the Cape kit), but the vast majority of combat vehicles are still not equipped with them despite the obvious threat.

    in the dachas you need to look for these "cloaks" ... arbors are sheltered by the generals ...
  16. 6erJIblu
    6erJIblu 25 November 2022 18: 53
    0
    Physics has gone to smoke ... "Cape" will help us! Can't you see the exhaust from the MTO? For me, winter is a plus for us because we have a lot of barrel and rocket artillery. and ammunition too.
  17. Simfy
    Simfy 25 November 2022 19: 50
    0
    Quote: Aerodrome
    generals were preparing for the last war, as usual.

    Unfortunately, the generals built dachas and villas in Spain and Italy ... I’m generally silent about the Moscow region (
    1. seamen2
      seamen2 27 November 2022 10: 15
      0
      I don't know about Italy. I was sent to work at the general's dacha. and it was not abroad. there I put the young one at the entrance to the yard. Yes, and let's go to the general's shed. then someone taps me on the shoulder. - do not interfere, young, I yell and enthusiastically continue. the clapping becomes more insistent. I turn around - and this is the general! he wanted to say something. Yes, I got ahead - and I'm looking for a rake here.
      this general crept up from the emergency entrance. not there I put the young one. not there.
  18. Rage66
    Rage66 25 November 2022 19: 50
    +2
    These questions should be addressed to the emcheesnik ... soldier
  19. Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 25 November 2022 20: 29
    +2
    Why does the complex work alone? One by one, of course, they will find him and cover him. One shot back, the other works and covers. One is going somewhere, the other is working and slapping that drone.
  20. cpls22
    cpls22 25 November 2022 21: 25
    +3
    For each piece of equipment, in theory, you need a direction finder for drone radio channels with an estimate of the distance to it, at least by the signal level. Knowing that the crew is being monitored and from which side can already help both in terms of the use of anti-drone weapons and in terms of camouflage. Only the friend-foe system needs to be introduced into this business. Ideally, it should be an anti-drone gun on the armor, like an anti-aircraft machine gun.
  21. storm
    storm 26 November 2022 01: 33
    0
    All air defense systems must be equipped with electronic warfare equipment that provides protection against UAVs.
    On-board electronic warfare equipment should be of several types:
    - creating a protective dome around the air defense system,
    - allowing with the help of directed radiation to disrupt the work, clog the control channels of the UAV - allowing to "burn out the eyes and brains" of the UAV.

    The task of engineering units is to build protective shelters for air defense systems and other equipment.
    From the "eyes" of UAVs, they must be covered with at least several layers of camouflage net with radiation protection, at least for thermal imagers.
    Such nets - shelters, even for hunters, are sold, not to mention snipers and scouts.
    Away from the shelter-caponier, several false positions should be created with "plywood" equipment and rattling Chinese diesel engines for fifteen thousand rubles, creating an imitation of running engines and attracting enemy UAVs.
  22. Fedor1
    Fedor1 26 November 2022 04: 37
    +1
    Russia has a funny army for all sorts of contests and show-offs, and not for war.
  23. certero
    certero 26 November 2022 08: 58
    0
    Let's start with the fact that no enemy drones should fly where our air defense is located. It seems like they promised before the special operation
  24. Cottodraton
    Cottodraton 26 November 2022 09: 15
    +2
    As you know, glass is impermeable to medium and far IR.
    Therefore, why not try using fiberglass as a cheap option to reduce radiation? Test it, of course...
    1. Duncan
      Duncan 26 November 2022 13: 59
      0
      Reflective IR materials, sea films. If you also sprinkle cold water, it will cool below the ambient air.
  25. seacap
    seacap 26 November 2022 11: 57
    0
    Quote from seamen2
    million dollars. and forgiven debts.

    Well, you give, it’s not for the development of your country to spend this loot, there’s nowhere to put it anyway, our (no) financiers were not taught this in Yale and Harvard training, they were trained as a colonial administration, otherwise they don’t know how and will not be old years to change if all their conscious life they were engaged only in servicing global financial speculators
  26. seacap
    seacap 26 November 2022 12: 02
    +1
    Quote: certero
    It seems like they promised before the special operation

    We have all the “analogues in the world” and “NATO members in horror”, but we will not show or give it to anyone, this is for the exhibition and to calm the guarantor so that he can sleep peacefully and be able to scare the adversary, and most importantly, under a beautiful booklet, you can cut the budget unlimitedly.
  27. acetophenone
    acetophenone 26 November 2022 12: 38
    +1
    Quote: avg avg
    Tell me, please, in more detail, how many helmets with armor did you personally lack and where?

    Well, suppose he writes it. So what? Will you send him a helmet and body armor? Will you go to the authorities and achieve that the shortcomings are corrected and the guilty punished? Who are you to ask questions, which military unit lacks which military equipment? I think that you are just a sofa swindler who is trying to bring a person under a specific article of the Criminal Code.
  28. buslaif
    buslaif 26 November 2022 17: 08
    0
    Quote: Aerodrome
    there are not enough helmets with armor, but you are talking about "capes" ..

    Capes are urgently produced by our enterprises that have received appropriate orders.
  29. buslaif
    buslaif 26 November 2022 17: 16
    0
    Quote: acetophenon
    Tell me, please, in more detail, how many helmets with armor did you personally lack and where?

    From December 1, they will tell you everything about helmets and armor, only in a different place. Order of the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation dated November 04.11.2022, 547 No. XNUMX. I advise you to familiarize yourself so that your mother does not have to cry.
  30. Alexander_Dneprovsky
    Alexander_Dneprovsky 26 November 2022 18: 06
    +1
    On a good issue, it is necessary to solve more radically. We need a special air defense - anti UAV. To detect use special. Radar or powerful thermal imagers. To destroy artillery with programmable projectiles.
    1. storm
      storm 30 November 2022 01: 56
      0
      Quote: Alexander_Dneprovsky
      On a good issue, it is necessary to solve more radically. We need a special air defense - anti UAV.


      And why not equip the existing anti-aircraft missile systems Tor, Pantsir, Buk with electronic warfare equipment ......?
      They see most of the UAVs with the available means of detection (ECO, radar ...) just add to them the means of electronic warfare and defense against UAVs.
      - Some electronic warfare tools will suppress UAV control channels
      - Other electronic warfare equipment will burn out the "brains and eyes" of the UAV
      - third electronic warfare systems will close the anti-aircraft complex with an "impenetrable dome" for the eyes of the UAV ....
      1. Alexander_Dneprovsky
        Alexander_Dneprovsky 30 November 2022 10: 13
        0
        In my opinion, EW is not effective enough. At the moment, electronic warfare equipment only jams or replaces UAV control channels in a limited radius. The most advanced UAVs are not subject to this effect either.
        I think a more effective and multifunctional tool is anti-aircraft artillery with programmable projectiles.
  31. Dost
    Dost 26 November 2022 22: 35
    0
    Again, BMs work one at a time, as in Libya or Syria, without covering each other. There would be a couple, one left for replenishment, the other monitors the situation.
  32. Losyara
    Losyara 26 November 2022 23: 00
    0
    Yes, a lot of things are not there, but there should have been. Here is the protection of the cabins on KamAZ trucks, only a photo appeared. And it should have appeared when. But together with the T90, when retreating in the Kharkov region, the "cloak" fell into the hands of the enemy
    1. barkonaut
      barkonaut 29 November 2022 09: 35
      0
      When technology is abandoned, it is no longer a waste.
  33. Canna Steinfeldgrubber
    Canna Steinfeldgrubber 26 November 2022 23: 06
    0
    Quote: Vicontas
    During the Chechen war, the reconnaissance group searched for "Czechs" in the greenery. Thermal imagers showed the absence of the enemy, but when the group entered the greenfield, they almost immediately stumbled upon the militants! They were wrapped over camouflage with a foil film - such as the one that sticks glass from the sun. This method should be used when there is no regular "Cape". Either a film or food foil sold in any market and pasted with adhesive tape on a tarpaulin.

    And hang out tinfoil hats Rostec will release
    1. Vicontas
      Vicontas 28 November 2022 20: 40
      0
      Whoever hurts, he talks about it! Why do you need to wait for a hat, decorate yourself with a saucepan and you will be "happiness"!
  34. Ghost1
    Ghost1 27 November 2022 09: 54
    0
    This is a modern confrontation, scientific vision devices, thermal imagers and TDs, here the lessons of the past do not come, modern approaches and counteractions are needed.
  35. Wolf
    Wolf 27 November 2022 12: 35
    0
    Obnakoveniya Aluminum foil, which is used to sew up car windows and torpedoes, is completely enough and it is very cheap, and the Chinese let it in in huge quantities. But the necessary brains and quickly do it !!!
    It is suitable not only for sewing up equipment and personnel at night !!!
    1. Wolf
      Wolf 27 November 2022 12: 42
      0
      And I can’t understand BIROCRATE and their BRAIN?
      To send to the front today WE ARE VERY GOOD TECHNIQUE AND WE LOVE THE ROAD AND LUDE AND WITHOUT SEWING FROM THERMAL IMAGERS ???
      Spend $200 on foil on a car that costs 10 million is expensive or that there is NO BRAIN HERE OR JUST BETRAYAL???
      1. Wolf
        Wolf 27 November 2022 12: 57
        +1
        It looks like this and tell the guys at the front to save the lives of people and equipment !!!






        1. Wolf
          Wolf 27 November 2022 13: 13
          +1
          Attach under the camouflage mesh for equipment and quickly cover and that's it, until the smart people come up with something better.
          1. Disant
            Disant 30 November 2022 17: 46
            +1
            Wolf, there is a video on YouTube where the Americans unwind the camp of dushmans from a helicopter with a thermal imager.
            there were even visible movements of people INSIDE the growth tent.
            .
            only the screen saves from the thermal imager, located away from heat source provided that the thermal imager does not move around the target from all sides (the heat has somewhere to go).
            for personnel - from the front (from eyes with thermal imagers) it is quite logical to hide behind screens made of improvised materials + organic transparent glasses for observation (plexiglas).
            for equipment - there is nothing to cover from the air, except for a deaf caponier covered with your material (for example) + false caponiers with burners (for the time the equipment cools down)
  36. sgrabik
    sgrabik 27 November 2022 14: 35
    +2
    Well, after all, special camouflage kits have been produced for a long time that are capable of completely absorbing the thermal radiation emanating from equipment, well, why is it still not smart enough to provide all of our equipment with them.
  37. KJIETyc
    KJIETyc 27 November 2022 22: 30
    0
    Chelyabinsk silica auto blanket costs 30 bucks, put a couple of pieces on and no heat comes out. Or is it necessary to graduate from a special academy in order to know the obvious things?
  38. marc75
    marc75 28 November 2022 08: 19
    0
    UAV grazes air defense systems, yes, this is sloppiness of calculation, TOR perfectly sees such a class of UAVs
    1. Disant
      Disant 30 November 2022 17: 52
      0
      any SRK has a funnel of space from above, which he does not observe.
      and as soon as you turned on the SAM for review, you were immediately spotted.
      the drone will most likely not be alone, but in a carousel, that is, it will be on duty 24/7.
      situation: the air defense system turns on, detects itself, shoots down the drone, in response something infrequently, but arrives.
      unequal exchange
  39. barkonaut
    barkonaut 29 November 2022 09: 32
    0
    The academies conscientiously taught to win the Battle of Kursk. And how could it be otherwise, even if the troops were not provided with either technical reconnaissance equipment or communications of the required quality even for banal mobile operations. As they are trained, so they act.