Military Review

Three against twelve - why did this happen?

465
Three against twelve - why did this happen?

The tragedy that happened the other day with twelve Russian servicemen in Ukraine makes us think about many things. Including about the prerequisites from which such a situation has developed.


The situation, you see, is very difficult to understand. How is it - twelve Russian soldiers against three soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine - and surrender?

We tried very hard to comprehend what happened as thoughtfully as possible, because somehow everything did not fit into our heads very smoothly.

But Alexander Sergeevich Khodakovsky helped us a little here. Here are his words, which we will comment on later:

“When you stew in your own juice, many things become inexpressive, like the smell of eau de toilette, which you are used to. The other day, thanks to Russian volunteers, I realized who we are - people from the fourteenth year.

For the past eight years, we've been turning militia units into combat structures, trying to keep the best of that period, but get rid of what got in the way. And when the influx of militias from Russia began - we again remembered those distant times ...

But one difference caught my eye: at that time we did not reserve the right to get out of the situation at any moment convenient for us, and many of today's volunteers do not want to stay in the war without this St. George's Day.

Still, the understanding that there is nowhere to run determines a lot.”

If you think that "off topic" - do not rush. Everything is really much more complicated than it seems. In order to understand/evaluate this, we read more than a dozen opinions on the topic of three commercials. A video filmed by Ukrainians before the shooting began, a video from a quadcopter after, and another video that Ukrainians threw out after the first two, about the execution of prisoners somewhere in the beginning of autumn. And we will begin to consider them in this order: first the last one, which we will call the first in time, then two from Makeevka. We will not bring them here, everyone who wanted to have probably already seen them.

On the first video, the process of finishing off people lying on the ground with shots in the head by representatives of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is already becoming familiar. There is no doubt that the fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are doing this. Form, speech... They "work" slowly, indeed, as they work.

On the ground are fighters of not entirely clear affiliation, but we believe that they are from Luhansk or Donetsk. Moreover, they were recently called up, as evidenced by both the uniform and completely new shoes. Bulletproof vests are not visible on the ground, helmets are lying around. All the same SSH-68, be it wrong.


Apparently, the guys were very unlucky, and some group of Ukrainian fighters ran into them and, as they say, tore them apart. And given that most likely it was a DRG, they had no need for prisoners. Which resulted in tragedy. It is very difficult to determine the type of troops of the dead soldiers, but it is clear that they are all young. Well, the fact that they are from the republics did not add to their chances of survival. There is really not much going on with this.

Peace to the ashes of the dead, we will never know what happened there, whether there was a fight at all or everything happened suddenly. Yes, it doesn't matter anymore.

The second part of the story is what happened in Makeevka.


The situation is also not simple. There was clearly a battle there, in a populated area, as a result of which a group of Russian (there is no doubt about this) fighters, for an unknown reason, decided to voluntarily surrender.

Of course, guesswork will start now, because the fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine will not give us an interview.

From the video it becomes clear that two groups of fighters, Russian and Ukrainian, collided in a residential area in the village. Apparently, the Ukrainians somehow worked more efficiently, and the Russians faltered. Who offered to lay down weapon and surrender, we don’t know, but obviously it was after the positive result of the negotiations that the Ukrainian fighter turned on the camera to record the surrender of the Russian military on it.

The fact that all this was preceded by an op on adrenaline is clear and understandable. And we can see the result on the recording: the Russian fighters, having left their weapons somewhere, began to come out and lie down on the ground where the Ukrainians pointed them. Under the muzzle of a PC machine gun. A smart decision, because there were a lot of Russians, which was clearly an unpleasant surprise for the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.


In general, of course, the video causes mixed feelings. When you realize that here they are, our fighters, normally equipped, in winter uniforms, in bulletproof vests, unloading, calmly go out and surrender.

It can be assumed that they ran out of ammunition and grenades. This is quite a possible combination of circumstances, which partly justifies such behavior. But, as subsequent events showed, not everyone ran out of ammunition and morale. More precisely, one fighter has both the first and the second.

The latter came out with a weapon and opened fire on the Ukrainians.


This was done not very competently, the fighter went almost to the machine gun and, most likely, was immediately killed. Everything is simple here, he really had no idea where the Ukrainians were, but he preferred to take a chance. As a result, the only one died, as befits a soldier - in battle. Very little consolation, to be honest, against the background of everything else.

The Ukrainian machine gunner obviously lost his nerve. It is clear that in such a situation, he decided not to take risks, because the soldiers who came out and had not yet been searched in this situation could have both pistols and grenades, because he simply went through the queue on the heads, which were literally a few meters away from him. At this distance, a bullet from a PC will pierce anything, not just outright shit called SSH-68. So those who surrendered had no chance.

It is clear that later, those who were not killed in the first run were finished off. This is already the norm for the APU. And so three Ukrainians emerged victorious over twelve Russian soldiers. More precisely, eleven and one.

Was there a chance that things would turn out differently? We won’t say a word, there’s no point on the one hand, and not because of the computer to be smart, secondly.

Although the British decided to be smart and wrote that one Russian soldier, not wanting to surrender, took the lives of everyone else with him. We will not comment on this in any way, we will simply move on to what hooked us the most.

Twelve against three. That is, four to one. We had weapons and ammunition. There was nothing? That's right, wishes. However, call it what you want: fighting spirit, the desire to win, the will to win - it does not matter. You can call it whatever you like, the main thing is that it was not. And there was an elementary desire to survive. And that is what pushed people to surrender. Let's give up and see how it goes. Yes, they can press, but then they will exchange it anyway.

And it didn't work out.

And here we have an answer to an unasked question: what is the value of the act of these people? Reprimands? Convictions? Understanding? The dead, of course, the answer is not important. Alive? Perhaps because from the answer you can infer what will happen next.

The surrender by Russian soldiers was dictated only by the desire to survive. By the way, it was not in vain that the Ukrainian fighters so actively asked which of the surrendering officers was, oh, not in vain. Apparently, they perfectly heard the negotiations, which is very easy to do, Motorola and Baofengi are equipping both sides everywhere. It is possible that the officer they were looking for was the last one to come out and start shooting.

And it is even possible that the subordinates of the officer themselves decided to surrender. Like, you do what you want, and we went. We don't want to die here. They laid down their weapons somewhere in the basement and began to leave. And the officer, who did not build rosy plans for the future after that, decided to do what he did.

This says only one thing: in this group of servicemen, there was simply no morale.

And here it is worth talking about the "five hundredth".

It would seem, where are they? And very much so. We are talking about the military-XNUMXth. About those who went to serve in Shoigu's mortgage army for an apartment and early retirement. He swore an oath to serve Russia... and then he took her back and fled. For one's own skin is more expensive, and it's one thing to send photo reports to the higher command about how cool you are training your subordinates, and another thing to go with them into a real battle.

Those clowns who trained soldiers in this way have fled the army. Taking advantage of the fact that the NWO is not a war, they simply rushed to civilian life, away from all this nonsense.

In fact - deserters, in fact - even worse.

By the way, why doesn't anyone care about numbers? Why have we brought 100-120 thousand people to Ukraine, and called for 300 thousand?

It's simple: 120 thousand is the total figure of the personnel of the units that were at least capable of something. 10% of the total number of our invincible army in competitions. The remaining 90% is worthless slag. Conscripts who were lured into the army with an ultra-short service life and the most comfortable mode of existence and contract soldiers who did not come to fight.

And 300 thousand - this figure shows how many “five hundredths” fled from the RF Armed Forces as soon as this incomprehensible SVO began. That is, about 200 thousand fled, but we must somehow compensate for combat losses. Here you have 300 thousand. And the prospect of more than one mobilization, because it will be so.

Alas, the combat readiness of the Russian army has been discussed for a long time, and the longer it goes on, the greater the understanding that not everything is as rosy as we were told, are told, and will be told for a very long time.

And how will it be? And how is. There are more than one video that personally reminds us very well of the times of the First Chechen campaign. Everything is the same in essence, only the filling is more vile. Then the conscripts were laid out for stupidity, now they are mobilized.

So, contract soldiers and officers who got scared and escaped - this is the reason for mobilization. The main one, in our opinion. Of course, there are a lot of reasons, but this one is the main one. The mobilized are called upon to plug the holes left by cowardly mortgage holders. Deserted at the first opportunity and suffered absolutely no punishment.

And what, we have a market ... They provided, according to the contract, services for the protection and defense of the country. They didn't sign up to fight. Everything is legally clear. Moreover, they have lost so much in terms of benefits and finances ... You can burst into tears.

And the mobilized are the victims of cowardice and meanness of the XNUMXs. And if the XNUMXth traitors were trained all their lives to defend / fight, then the mobilized were pulled out of their familiar world, from work (and they were taken into mobilization mainly through enterprises, that is, those who were officially employed), torn from a family that was not ready for this at all ...

And they were sent to fight instead of scoundrels, who tore off their shoulder straps on the go. Often, somehow equipping and dressing and teaching something.

What happened in the end? Yes, it's been crap. That the mortgage army was nowhere worse, that the now mobilized one is no better in some respects.

Now from the sofas it will rush "They are called to defend the Motherland ...". So, first of all, those who, losing slippers and berets, fled the army, were called to defend the Motherland. And now they, who spent 3-5-7 years on don’t understand what in terms of military training, will be replaced by those who spend at best three months.

And yes, more videos will show how, in which case, the mobilized will be promptly caught by the military police and sent to the most fair trial in the world.

And instead of an army that did not want to fight, we end up with an army that does not want to fight. And at the first opportunity will demonstrate it.

Why is that? Yes, all because there is no idea. We have been hammering on this for more than one year, but things are still there. Why a person should go to war, for what or whom is this war, what are the goals, why are there so many incomprehensible moves and decisions - until there are clear answers to these questions, and “demilitarization and denazification” are not going for a clear answer now. And therefore, there is nowhere to take a proper understanding of what is happening, respectively, there will be only a war for survival.

That is, a person will first fight not to go to war, where he can simply be used as a "meat", and then, having lost the first round, fight to survive at any cost.

There are fewer and fewer believers in fairy tales about the fact that “the state will take care of my family in the event of death”. Especially among those whom the state has already taken care of during their lifetime, giving them the right to buy shoes, clothes, equipment, medicines, armor and other equally important things. And since there were many such cases, then the faith is corresponding.

Of course, such videos will not improve the mood of those who want to surrender at the first opportunity. Ukrainian roulette, take it or be killed. So-so alignment in any case. And there is absolutely no way out of this situation.

For ten years, the army that we have was built in this way, or rather, on the contrary. There is no other and is not even expected. So you just have to be patient, because such “victories” will happen the farther, the more often.
Author:
465 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 25 November 2022 05: 14
    -14
    Why have we brought 100-120 thousand people to Ukraine, and called for 300 thousand?

    It's simple: 120 thousand is the total figure of the personnel of the units that were at least capable of something. 10% of the total number of our invincible army in competitions. The remaining 90% is worthless slag. Conscripts who were lured into the army with an ultra-short service life and the most comfortable mode of existence and contract soldiers who did not come to fight.

    And 300 thousand - this figure shows how many “five hundredths” fled from the RF Armed Forces as soon as this incomprehensible SVO began. That is, about 200 thousand fled, but we must somehow compensate for combat losses. Here you have 300 thousand. And the prospect of more than one mobilization, because it will be so.

    What the hell am I reading?! Okay, the authors took 300 thousand "five hundredths" out of thin air, but why did they get the idea that only 120 thousand were introduced because of them ?! After all, the "mortgage" from the aircraft began to dump AFTER the start of the operation!!!
    And according to the episode - to play this and other videos in parts, it would be better for the refuseniks to be in the rear and go under the article than to substitute others on the front line.
    1. Mixweb
      Mixweb 25 November 2022 07: 07
      +80
      A rotation was planned. So, 3 shifts. Quantitatively 2 shifts were dumped. Not all of them escaped. Some were thrown away. Like my brother. Due to the fact that their battalion commander. I myself have never been on the front end, but I made skillful reports. 2 Guys received for these reports. And he sent the boys to their deaths. One of his subordinates almost shot him for this, but at the last moment the machine gun was knocked out. So, after another stupid order, it was just a miracle that the bro did not die. Ran into a minefield and got 3 javelins. Got off with a severe concussion. He was treated at home at his own expense, once a week he was noted in the unit. I was going to go back to the guys. And then it turned out that part of them officially went to Ukraine only in May, and they removed him retroactively as unfit for service. Despite the fact that they have been there since February 24.
      1. Kaiten
        Kaiten 26 November 2022 11: 29
        +3
        Quote: Mixweb
        And then it turned out that part of them officially went to Ukraine only in May, and they removed him retroactively as unfit for service.

        But it never happened. And buddy? What happened?
        1. Mixweb
          Mixweb 27 November 2022 07: 38
          +2
          What happened?

          The military prosecutor's office came to the hospital to interrogate him about the circumstances of the battle and why the 2 miraculously surviving crew members did not drag the corpse of the tank commander and some documents with them. Under fire from snipers and machine guns. And they were interested, they say, what the hell are they on two tanks (one of which was without an suo) almost disrupted the operation of the Marines. Well, he expressed everything that he thinks about the planning of that operation, about the commander, and in general about the whole mess. They wrote everything down and left. A couple of days later, the battalion commander was called "on the carpet", but after 3 weeks he returned with the second "Man", and on the same day (that's a coincidence) his brother was turned.
        2. insafufa
          insafufa 28 November 2022 08: 09
          +6
          Our Effective Managers value only one ability to draw up a correct report that will show their effectiveness, they do not like and do not want to listen to the truth. After all, there are many examples of the effective construction of a contract army, and all of them are based on one good salary, pensions and safe service when you do not need to fight. It has long been known that a mercenary army and even mercenaries are the first to flee the battlefield.
      2. Alexey Graff
        Alexey Graff 26 November 2022 12: 14
        +13
        That's what faith those people who massively bought suburban real estate, and some managed to buy it abroad, instead of forging the country's defense capability, being an example for their subordinates, sharing experience and skills.
        It is foolish to talk about the cowardice of those mobilized at a time when Mr. Rogozin is not responsible for his words at all, the Chubais are knocked down for cardon, the military cannot figure out the whereabouts of the commanders and politicians of Ukraine who give criminal orders, etc. But the mobilized must be well motivated, equipped, have support and guarantees from the state in case of injury or death. There are clearly systemic critical errors here, resulting in such incidents that will soon become a regularity.
        And yet, if the command sees that the task is not being completed, people leave their positions, why does not they take any actions to save, strengthen, etc. Or will they learn from the news about what is happening?
        1. Planem
          Planem 27 November 2022 10: 30
          +8
          And what does Rogozin have to do with it? Or is it so, because you can blame him? But, probably, all the same, for many years the Russian Armed Forces have been controlled not by Rogozin and not by other similar persons who are allowed to be blamed, but by Commander-in-Chief Putin and the Ministry of Defense Shoigu.
          1. PC
            PC 28 November 2022 08: 15
            +2
            Indeed, for what purpose did they drag Rogozin? Like extreme?
          2. insafufa
            insafufa 28 November 2022 08: 23
            -2
            That you all run into Rogozin, he is just trying to do at least something, unlike you. He is trying to form our darpa undertook to test promising models that the military rejected in combat conditions trying to prove their effectiveness. Here was an example of a ballistic computer for howitzers and mortars, which displays on the display of the gunner the values ​​​​that need to be set on the sight for accurate shooting at the target, this is now done by the calculation commander manually. Therefore, everyone began to use the Ukrainian application for art, the result of raids on our art. There is a tablet M, the development of the early 2000s, it took her 20 years to reach the troops. at the beginning of 2002, the prototypes of the tablet were already being tested in units of the 58th army in the Caucasus, for what reason did the complex not go to the troops for 20 years?
    2. Alekseev
      Alekseev 25 November 2022 13: 21
      +27
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      What the hell am I reading?!

      Well, you can’t say that it’s so nonsense. After all, there are and have been problems with the staffing and education of the personnel of the army and other power structures. Many "unlucky" entered the Armed Forces "to earn money", they say there is no normal work, etc., etc. This has been written about many times, including on VO. And the "excuses" of both the Ukrainians and ours are the same: they didn’t train, they didn’t supply, the commanders were abandoned, etc.
      What to do, what to do ?!
      Take measures. To begin with, remember that such problems have always existed, over one million deserters were counted during the Great Patriotic War, a million Soviet citizens served in the military formations of the Reich. Even during the Balaton defensive operation in 1945, recruits from the infantry, called up, by the way, in the liberated territories of Western Ukraine, fled in such a way that our artillerymen (from small arms) fired at them to stop the flight and panic, the artillery positions of which this infantry was supposed to cover up.
      It is necessary to try, especially in combat units, to put mobilized fighters under the command of veterans, to work on what awaits those who have voluntarily surrendered, to judge if there is a corpus delicti and to conduct other real, effective educational work, and not agitation for show.
      Everything has already happened, there is no need to invent anything new. And there is no need to hope that the army can be staffed only with "good" patriots. This has never happened and never will. Severe "Stalinist" (and others, by the way, similar) measures? Yes. But there is a war going on, not for life, but for death, and measures must be appropriate.
      As for the number of 300, I hope our superiors had the sense not to reveal the true number of those mobilized, this is a military and state secret, and 200 "escaped" is too much. There were about 300 thousand in total in the Ground Forces, with conscripts. And the total number of the army was about 1 million, but in the navy, strategic missile forces, air defense of the country and other types of armed forces, someone also needs to serve.
      1. Zakirov Damir
        Zakirov Damir 26 November 2022 01: 13
        +7
        Quote: Alekseev
        To begin with, remember that such problems have always existed, over one million deserters were counted during the Great Patriotic War,

        Actually, there are 212 deserters not found. How else did you get 400 thousand? Of those who left their positions, who were returned to the unit? So they are not deserters.

        Quote: Alekseev
        A million Soviet citizens served in the military formations of the Reich.

        A million two hundred thousand, to be exact. Of these, one million soldiers of the Red Army, recruited from prisoner of war camps, and only two hundred thousand civilians, that is, specific volunteers.

        It’s not so terrible that you dipped the generation of those who fought in shit, but that you were given 10 pluses. In their anger against the authorities of the Russian Federation, the local public seems to have confused the coast in general!
        1. nils
          nils 26 November 2022 15: 22
          +18
          Quote: Damir Zakirov
          In their anger against the authorities of the Russian Federation, the local public seems to have confused the coast in general!

          When lessons of state patriotism begin to be introduced in schools, this means that something is going wrong in the state. If children need to be taught to love the Motherland, this means that the Motherland does not love its children.
          Patriotism is love for the Motherland. Motherland is not a state and not a government. Motherland is “that corner of the earth” with which a person is connected by the origins of life.
          And if people begin to be taught love for the state, love for power, this is not patriotism, this is the education of loyalty and humility. And love for the motherland sometimes requires going against the state, against the authorities.
          1. Zakirov Damir
            Zakirov Damir 26 November 2022 21: 46
            -3
            Quote: nils
            And if people begin to be taught love for the state, love for power, this is not patriotism, this is the education of loyalty and humility. And love for the motherland sometimes requires going against the state, against the authorities.

            Express your attitude to the authorities of the Russian Federation as you like, but what does the generation of those who fought in the Second World War have to do with it? Why attract deserters and collaborators to the Second World War? And if you already pulled it, then bring honest data, and not liberally twisted ones.

            Maybe you gave him a plus? There was no insult for veterans? If not, then re-read his comment and my answer to it again!
            1. Andrey Stavropolsky
              Andrey Stavropolsky 26 November 2022 23: 33
              +5
              So he doesn't talk about it. Veterans, people who have gone through these difficult trials, bow low. He writes not from what was, but about the fact that there was no such thing as then and now. This is a worldview message, not an accusation of someone.
          2. Planem
            Planem 27 November 2022 15: 11
            +2
            Here you are only partly right. In fact, the proper upbringing of children and young people is the most important duty and task of the state and the whole society. And proper education is, among other things, instilling patriotism and citizenship. You argue as if patriotism is just love for birch trees, native places, parents, friends. But this is narrow-minded, petty patriotism, petty-bourgeois, if not animalistic. In fact, patriotism is, first of all, a feeling of belonging to the people, of which each of us is a part, of one’s continuation of life and the deeds of the ancestors who mastered, equipped and protected our land, created our state, this is love for the Russian language, Russian, Russian, Soviet history and culture. And if this is not instilled, then a feeling of genuine patriotism in a person may not arise. Especially in our time, when children and young people are being worked with might and main by the media controlled by the financial and political oligarchy of the West, film and video products created by its lackeys, which decompose, corrupt and simply kill everything Russian, Russian, Soviet in the souls of our people, nurturing cosmopolitans, egoists , opportunists, Ivanov, who do not remember kinship, those for whom the Motherland is where the opa is warm. Another thing is that the modern Russian authorities, trying to instill patriotism with one hand, with the other, as well as with all other parts of the body, beat this patriotism out of the souls of the younger generation. Here you are close to the truth. The motherland, or rather, the Russian authorities, does not really love their children. More precisely, she loves only her children, and she does not love the children of the majority of the people, treating them as strangers, as the children of her subordinates, and even subjugated people ..
      2. poquello
        poquello 26 November 2022 02: 25
        -4
        Quote: Alekseev
        Well, you can’t say that it’s so nonsense. After all, there are and have been problems with the staffing and education of the personnel of the army and other power structures.

        Quote: Alekseev
        In the Ground Forces in total, with conscripts, there were about 300 thousand. And the total number of the army was about 1 million, but in the fleet, Strategic Missile Forces, air defense of the country and other types of armed forces

        this is how it turns out not quite nonsense, with a sediment
      3. Evgeny Ivanov_5
        Evgeny Ivanov_5 26 November 2022 07: 49
        +2
        And why did they decide that the army should educate? First of all, parents should educate. The army should teach people how to fight and kill as efficiently as possible.
        1. zloybond
          zloybond 26 November 2022 09: 56
          +10
          Do not forget about personnel services - they still have to select, and not recruit. And then teach. But also to educate - no one canceled our political officers.
          And then it turned out like this: all of a sudden, political officers who are more cunning rushed to play KVN, create teams. They organized a near-war career, titles at the expense of KVN and other ditty competitions, tank ballets. They received ranks, scribbled candidate candidates at the forefront of KVN and now they are ranting as super military non-couch experts on screens about patriotism. But in fact - like a near-military crook. This is instead of his work on education (to the opinion above) hi
          For example, we have introduced a system of the Yunarmiya - for participation, balls are plus in exams for admission to a university. Do you think everyone went there at the behest of the heart? I am sure for the good of the cause in the prospect of receiving points not only at the behest. All cheating starts at school. Komsomol workers, too, not all for the cause of the party were cooked in the Komsomol - but also for a career, etc. ...
          The personnel service in does not work for the benefit of the Army - but in some other way. Under the current Minister and in his previous department, she was not at the best level, judging by the scandals - Mikhalkov's programs alone were worth something with scandals in the Ministry of Emergencies. The same disease has spilled over into MO. (Well, this is my opinion - you can disagree)
        2. skeptic
          skeptic 26 November 2022 13: 01
          +9
          Quote: Evgeny Ivanov_5
          The army should teach people how to fight and kill as efficiently as possible.

          Ndaa really ... And who - does not matter? Instilling patriotism, during the reign of the thieves' godfather, is a rather complicated thing - there are no words. How to explain the "preventive invasion" otherwise than how the whole world perceives it? You can say that you wanted to save many lives in the Donbass... Saved?
          If they put all the necessary artillery around the perimeter, warning the other side that during the invasion, Russia would use all types of weapons to protect the allied states, I am more than sure that they would be within the "Taiwan-China" line. But the leadership did everything to compromise the "saving of Donbass", activating the war of conquest (in the understanding of the whole world) "under the pretext of protecting Donbass." To the greatest regret, Russia is interpreted as an aggressor state, which does not add patriotism to the people. Here, the interests of the thieves' oligarchy are more visible, which greatly levels patriotism. It makes no sense to compare the patriotism of the USSR with its interpretation in an oligarchic state. It is with this that the thoughts of the majority of Russians are connected. It is with this that the tragedy of the twelve dead is connected. It is with this that the "release of prisoners of war" has recently been connected. The West is well aware that "not taking prisoners" will lead to a sharp exasperation against Western military personnel, under the guise of mercenaries.
          "Parents should educate, first of all" - does not work, for a simple reason, the enormous injustice of the thieves' godfather to his people.
          Until the government understands that, first of all, its well-being should be built in direct proportion to the well-being of the people themselves, there will be no sense. For the people constantly see the next betrayals, those in power, and this creates confusion in the minds. To the greatest regret.
          1. bayard
            bayard 27 November 2022 23: 07
            +11
            Quote: skeptic
            You can say that you wanted to save many lives in the Donbass... Saved?

            Yes, no one was going to release or denazify such a group - without reserves and proper support. They wanted to scare them a lot and force them to negotiate on their own terms. It was not for nothing that the negotiations began almost the next day. It didn't work out.
            And this is really the whole oligarchic power, where everything is based on agreements and financial interests. It was not profitable to maintain an army sufficient for the defense of the state, and they reduced it, relying on the Small professional (mercenary) army. And it won out as it turned out - as required, then even this (extremely insufficient numerically) grouping was barely scraped together in all the barrels. It’s just that in nature there was nowhere else to get more - the number of the Ground Forces of the Russian Federation is 280 thousand, of which half are conscripts (who cannot go into battle), and the entire professional balance must also cover our entire Endless Motherland.
            The number of airborne forces is 50 thousand, but half of them are also conscripts.
            MP of the Navy - about 20 thousand, and there are also half of the conscripts.
            So I had to urgently connect the Russian Guard (the number of which is already 350 thousand, but not everyone is possible there) and urgently form battalions of volunteers under the auspices and through a contract with the Russian Guard.
            From all this + special forces of the MTR and FSB and scraped together 100-120 thousand NVO groups.
            Against the enemy, in which only the Armed Forces of Ukraine totaled 350 thousand + 100 thousand territorial defense (mainly from "ATO" veterans) + the National Guard + border troops and so on. Not to mention the fact that the mobilization in / on began almost on the very first day of the NWO. Did you laugh at how they handed out weapons on the streets? But Kyiv alone gave in the first weeks from 70 to 000 volunteers.
            It's just that they have been preparing for this all these 8 years!
            The whole state was preparing for this.
            And the towers didn't know about it?
            Didn't guess?
            After all, everything was open, everyone knew about it ... but not the towers? what
            And when it became clear that the focus had failed and the troops hastily left the northern regions of Ukraine, when the troops retreated abroad, leaving units of mobilized Donbass fighters in the Kharkiv region as a barrier ... which never reached the point that mobilization was needed and a completely different number grouping?
            No, it was obvious.
            But no action was taken!
            Instead, all spring and all summer, the corps of the republics of Donbass stormed the enemy’s defense lines that had been super-fortified for 8 years, trying to squeeze the Nazis out of the territories of the republics. Yes, there were "Bars" and Chechen units there. And they advanced for almost half a year against an enemy that was 3-5 times superior.
            And all this time, the towers carried out "biathlons" on tanks, pompous exercises in the Far East (80 l / s were attracted for show, when the "small army" and Donbass corps bled in frontal attacks on the fronts.
            Didn't get it?
            Devil's Wheel is more important?
            Parades and other show-offs all summer...
            Moreover, even the military registration and enlistment offices did not prepare for future mobilization. Neither the lists nor the data on those liable for military service were specified ... The carefree life of the Sebarites.
            And then there was a "counterattack" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine ... when the "guards" of a small army showed all the brilliance of their heels! Having lost almost the entire Kharkiv region.
            What were the towers doing at that time?
            Grain deals!!
            Negotiations about the fate of fertilizers stuck in European ports, the launch of an ammonia pipeline ... It got to the point that, having felt this interest in the towers, the families of Ukrainian prisoners of war are already demanding from their authorities ... the launch of this damned ammonia pipeline !!! In exchange for their relatives in captivity.
            And Russian gas is regularly pumped through the GTS of Ukraine to Europe ... oil deliveries break all records (through gaskets, but they beat records!).
            And the mobilized themselves equip themselves, because in the warehouses of the Ministry of Defense 1,5 million sets of uniforms and equipment ... disappeared without a trace !!
            And no one is to blame.
            The Minister of Defense, without a military education, sits firmly in his chair as never before. The towers are fine.
            About the "five hundredths" and their numbers, the author, of course, turned down. I think that the number of cumulative losses (200s, 300s, 500s) at the beginning of autumn was about 135 thousand - this is the figure that was called on the eve of mobilization, as the number, how much it was decided to increase the number of the RF Armed Forces. This, of course, is also an assumption. And numerically, the 500s were completely compensated by the volunteer battalions, which came to the SVO on their own initiative from 65 to 000 today.

            According to the situation with the surrender of that ill-fated group of recruits (the uniform, shoes and the very nature of behavior testify to this) ... The guys were sitting in a private house, perhaps eating or relaxing, there was only one fighter in the outposts ... and the enemy entered on the other hand, and under the threat of "throwing grenades" ... offered to surrender. And they began to leave ... And then that fighter returned, that he was either in military guard, or went out to take a piss ... and it happened, what happened.
            Since 2014, we have preferred not to surrender - we always took care of the last grenade for ourselves ... And these were just yellow-mouthed recruits.
            Not volunteers.
            Not professionals.
            But it was enough for them to just throw a couple of grenades out (in a voice). And take the fight. And the majority would then have a chance to survive. The boys just didn't fight.
        3. Andrey Stavropolsky
          Andrey Stavropolsky 26 November 2022 23: 35
          0
          Who raised the parents? Children are a reflection of their parents. Everything that is put in masks and dads will be in their children.
      4. Alexey Graff
        Alexey Graff 26 November 2022 12: 18
        +12
        Everything is correct, only it is necessary to judge not only the mobilized, but also those who, instead of secure high-speed communications, issue a radio station from China to perform a combat mission. Then it will not be a one-sided game.
        1. Al manah
          Al manah 27 November 2022 23: 18
          +2
          The one who issues at least Chinese is not to be judged. It is necessary to judge the one who does not give out, but says: "Go buy it yourself - they gave you the money."
      5. Planem
        Planem 27 November 2022 11: 14
        +6
        How did you turn! It is not those who poorly planned the NMD that are to blame, not those who, even though the Ukronazis have been shelling for a long time, and now they have already seized Russian territories, do not introduce martial law with all the ensuing consequences for deserters and the mobilization of the whole society, including sacred business for the Russian authorities, and not even those who created the ceremonial army and its non-working structure, in which for one real fighter there are three managers that are not either effective, or "dead souls". How many in the RF Armed Forces are in seafarers and coast guards in the fleet? 50 thousand at least typed? How much is real in the working structures of air defense? Probably even less. As in the Air Force and in the Strategic Missile Forces. That is, all of them together and 200 thousand are unlikely to be typed. By the way, not so few marines, pilots and other military personnel from these structures still take part in the NWO. But if, as you write in the RF NE, 300 military units and add another 200 real military units in other real structures, then where are the remaining 500 military personnel of the Ministry of Defense? And the National Guard, which, by the way, has up to 300 thousand?
        But for people like you, again, it turns out that Stalin is to blame. Like, in the Great Patriotic War there were no less deserters. Although then they managed to literally defeat almost all of Europe and the best army in the world with the most advanced industrial and technical base on the planet, together, by the way, with the notorious Soviet deserters, but now the Russian Armed Forces will not defeat the Armed Forces of Ukraine armed with antediluvian weapons, which have practically no missiles, no modern planes and helicopters, and in recent months they have been retreating more and more. And, by the way, modern refuseniks can be understood in many ways. What do they have to die for? For the billion-dollar capital of the Russian nouveaux riches, for unreplaced for decades, uncontrolled and irresponsible officials who are already passing on their power by inheritance? No, the market is the market, the business is the business, why are they worse than others? That's why we have such an army.
      6. Alex20042004
        Alex20042004 27 November 2022 14: 17
        +4
        I liked the article. Well written and well written. There is now an opportunity to rethink everything.
        For many, war is a one-way ticket.
        Everyone wants to live, and you can return disabled.
        Therefore, if you are afraid to die, then there is nothing for you to do at the front. You need to be ready for everything. Fear binds the mind and does not allow to act correctly.
      7. The comment was deleted.
    3. Romanovski
      Romanovski 25 November 2022 20: 23
      +2
      Scum... Creatures... There are no words... Shooting those who SURDER (!) into captivity, exposing civilians to bullets and shells, begging all over the world - this is very zhi... Obandera.
      1. nickname7
        nickname7 26 November 2022 09: 24
        +7
        Shoot those who surrender (!) Captured

        My friend, this is not ballroom dancing, this is war, after all, opponents can also be killed at any moment, why should they show pity? Either you or you are the simple rules of war.
        1. Ulan.1812
          Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 11: 08
          +3
          Quote: nickname7
          Shoot those who surrender (!) Captured

          My friend, this is not ballroom dancing, this is war, after all, opponents can also be killed at any moment, why should they show pity? Either you or you are the simple rules of war.

          No, these are not the rules of war. Those who surrender are not shot.
          1. nickname7
            nickname7 26 November 2022 12: 38
            +7
            No, these are not the rules of war. Those who surrender are not shot.

            I do not condone rubbing the prisoners, but in the war everyone is nervous, that's what happens. Also, there are many problems with prisoners; soldiers must be allocated for protection, food, etc. Not everyone is ready to take on these problems.
            1. Ulan.1812
              Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 13: 28
              +2
              Quote: nickname7
              No, these are not the rules of war. Those who surrender are not shot.

              I do not condone rubbing the prisoners, but in the war everyone is nervous, that's what happens. Also, there are many problems with prisoners; soldiers must be allocated for protection, food, etc. Not everyone is ready to take on these problems.

              This is another question, there are no objections.
          2. skeptic
            skeptic 26 November 2022 13: 21
            +4
            Quote: Ulan.1812
            No, these are not the rules of war. Those who surrender are not shot.

            It's only good on paper. DRGs take no prisoners. This is the harsh truth of war, for all sides. Video of the scenes of the release of prisoners, provokes new surrender. Moreover, in the presentation of "singing the songs of Bandera", squats, provokes the notion that there is not so scary, because they do not talk about real torture (perhaps they release those who signed up for such a presentation). Who pays the interviewers who provide just such a feed is a question for the special services.
            1. Ulan.1812
              Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 13: 34
              +1
              Quote: skeptic
              Quote: Ulan.1812
              No, these are not the rules of war. Those who surrender are not shot.

              It's only good on paper. DRGs take no prisoners. This is the harsh truth of war, for all sides. Video of the scenes of the release of prisoners, provokes new surrender. Moreover, in the presentation of "singing the songs of Bandera", squats, provokes the notion that there is not so scary, because they do not talk about real torture (perhaps they release those who signed up for such a presentation). Who pays the interviewers who provide just such a feed is a question for the special services.

              I have already said about this, that apparently they hoped for an exchange and that the war would end for them on this.
              If it was the Ukropovskaya DRG, then let them hang out with the prisoners once.
              But judging by the video, the dill was in no hurry.
      2. Kaiten
        Kaiten 26 November 2022 11: 32
        +1
        Quote from Romanovski
        it's very life ... obandera

        I propose to express indignation to Natanyahu
      3. Romanovski
        Romanovski 26 November 2022 19: 25
        0
        Thanks to all those who put 12 pluses to my comment, and also ..... thanks to those who immediately reacted and immediately put 12 minuses ... Very grateful ...
        Quote from Romanovski
        Scum... Creatures... There are no words... Shooting those who SURDER (!) into captivity, exposing civilians to bullets and shells, begging all over the world - this is very zhi... Obandera.
    4. poquello
      poquello 26 November 2022 02: 10
      -1
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      What the hell am I reading?!

      it’s not nonsense, it’s shit spewers, they covered themselves with Khodakovsky and let’s burp shit at the army, how many guys died there as heroes, and they have a “mortgage army”, and most importantly they don’t hesitate to lie - they have 90% slag, the guys will probably be very interested in how these two of them a friend is called
      1. nickname7
        nickname7 26 November 2022 09: 19
        +18
        shit spitters, covered themselves with Khodakovsky

        12 soldiers raised their paws and surrendered to the 3rd, how do you think this is normal? Everyone would have thrown a grenade and won.
        1. poquello
          poquello 26 November 2022 18: 19
          0
          Quote: nickname7
          shit spitters, covered themselves with Khodakovsky

          12 soldiers raised their paws and surrendered to the 3rd, how do you think this is normal? Everyone would have thrown a grenade and won.

          and you still look in this shit, you will probably find a few more undeniable statements
        2. Alex Barrett
          Alex Barrett 26 November 2022 21: 26
          +1
          In the full video, there is just the twelfth one, who changed his mind about giving up, with all the ensuing consequences for others
          1. Andrey Stavropolsky
            Andrey Stavropolsky 26 November 2022 23: 39
            +5
            Apparently they ceased to exist for him as people, men. There is a small category of people who are not able to betray themselves, their beliefs and principles.
        3. Planem
          Planem 27 November 2022 11: 24
          +1
          But we, apparently, do not know everything about what happened there. And it is unlikely that the video got everything important so that we could correctly understand the situation. It could be anything. For example, in reality, there were several times more Ukronats, our soldiers were running out of ammunition, the Ukronats were able to outwit ours, among ours, not quite ours, that is, cowards and traitors, had the advantage, etc.
        4. Alexei-
          Alexei- 28 November 2022 03: 50
          +1
          Well, you know better from the sofa how many grenades to throw.
      2. Zakirov Damir
        Zakirov Damir 26 November 2022 13: 05
        -5
        Quote: poquello
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        What the hell am I reading?!

        it’s not nonsense, it’s shit spewers, they covered themselves with Khodakovsky and let’s burp shit at the army, how many guys died there as heroes, and they have a “mortgage army”, and most importantly they don’t hesitate to lie - they have 90% slag, the guys will probably be very interested in how these two of them a friend is called

        I see the author of "Skomorokhov" and skip the topic without reading it.
    5. Evgeny Ivanov_5
      Evgeny Ivanov_5 26 November 2022 09: 00
      -6
      The "patriots" will peck you now for such an opinion. There are more and more people here for the new year of 1917 to happen soon and the soldiers to leave the front like these unfortunate people.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 26 November 2022 10: 06
        +1
        Quote: Evgeny Ivanov_5
        The "patriots" will peck you now for such an opinion.

        And what to peck? The ratio of pluses and minuses is sane, there are no particularly evil comments, so it's normal! hi
        1. Ulan.1812
          Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 11: 09
          +1
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Quote: Evgeny Ivanov_5
          The "patriots" will peck you now for such an opinion.

          And what to peck? The ratio of pluses and minuses is sane, there are no particularly evil comments, so it's normal! hi

          But there are stupid ones. Enough.
      2. Kaiten
        Kaiten 26 November 2022 11: 33
        +1
        Quote: Evgeny Ivanov_5
        more and more people are for the new year 1917 to happen soon

        And who is Lenin?
        1. skeptic
          skeptic 26 November 2022 13: 27
          +2
          Quote: Kaiten
          Quote: Evgeny Ivanov_5
          more and more people are for the new year 1917 to happen soon

          And who is Lenin?

          Putin can become one if the thieves plowman cuts like a class.
          1. Kaiten
            Kaiten 26 November 2022 13: 51
            +3
            Quote: skeptic
            Quote: Kaiten
            Quote: Evgeny Ivanov_5
            more and more people are for the new year 1917 to happen soon

            And who is Lenin?

            Putin can become one if the thieves plowman cuts like a class.

            Lenin won the civil war. And here is not quite the same case.
            1. skeptic
              skeptic 26 November 2022 22: 47
              +1
              Quote: Kaiten
              Lenin won the civil war.

              It's on now, isn't it? Even, slightly disguised, for now, intervention is present. Yes. Socialism is absent, as is ideology, but there was a Civil War in America. If only the NWO did not turn out to be, initially, a project of Washington.
          2. PC
            PC 28 November 2022 08: 37
            -1
            Yes, Putin can really become Lenin. But this requires political will. Which has been missing for a good ten years.
    6. Fisherman
      Fisherman 26 November 2022 21: 55
      +8
      I agree ... complete nonsense ... mobilization was carried out due to the fact that the front was stretched out and there were not enough vulgar fighters to hold it ... but you still need to fill the flanks with someone on the offensive ... and there is no one to compact the boilers and the environment at all .. .in Marik, at least the sea helped to block most of the surrounded city. So 300 is still a small fraction of what is actually going on. Dills should prepare for boilers, breakthroughs and encirclements, lubricate their heels with their favorite fat as soon as the first breakthroughs of their front go - this means that ours are already ready to keep the formation, flanks and surrounded cities and regions. As for the video, there were clearly not three dills, there was clearly a battle, and this platoon decided to stupidly sit out in the barn instead of taking good shooting positions under the roofs of the houses and around the corners of the barns, they stupidly ignored the commander, in terms of uniforms - purely mobiles, the commander obviously accepted the fight consciously and managed to mortally wound one of the dill, whom they asked in the video (already pale blue) “how are you?” - and in response there was silence.
    7. insafufa
      insafufa 28 November 2022 09: 00
      -1
      All the problems are that we have been told all these 8 years about the Russian world, in fact there is no Russian world. They convinced our public that the war would be an easy walk, all the enemies would scatter, but it wasn’t here that it turned out to be brothers who in 2014 shouted that they were not brothers to us and were ready to kill everyone in the best traditions of the SS. While some are ready to treat and persuade the militants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to surrender, others on the part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine calmly kill our soldiers and do not provide assistance to the wounded. It is necessary for the last fighter who did not want to surrender to the mercy of Banderlog to give the hero of the Russian Federation. In the second company in the Caucasus, each fighter knew that the prisoner would be slaughtered in a ravine before being sent, they showed a video of boys being slaughtered on camera. Why they don’t do this now, they don’t show our soldiers and mobilized what will happen to them in case of surrender. Instead of this, they tell us about the brothers and our people, then these our people walk around like that cynically and shoot our soldiers. Every soldier of the Russian Federation should know that there are no our people in the uniform of the Armed Forces of Ukraine if they do not want to give up and refrain from leveling them to hell in positions. Each APU shnik should know if he resists, no one will persuade him to surrender; if he quickly surrenders, he will be safe and sound. To stop exchanging officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine according to the formula 1 for 1, you need to ask for 100 of ours for each. If a pilot or a prisoner fighter arrives without fingers or disabled after torture, then the prisoners are not barred from those units that allowed this.
  2. Aerodrome
    Aerodrome 25 November 2022 05: 21
    +58
    it is worth noting that the Ukrainian army is quite strongly motivated, unlike ours ...
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 25 November 2022 06: 58
      +37
      Quote: Aerodrome
      .... the Ukrainian army is quite strongly motivated, unlike ours ...

      And not only the Ukrainian army, but all the rest.. Somehow there are no statements by Ukrainians and deputies who would be against the shelling of the LDNR and against the ATO. While we have mundeps that just didn’t crap and the artists too.
    2. Machito
      Machito 25 November 2022 07: 00
      +74
      It is worth noting that the Ukrainian army has goals that are quite understandable to everyone: to liberate their lands. And we have incomprehensible demilitarization and denazification. The Azovites at Azovstal were seemingly demilitarized, during the denazification in the Elenovka zone they were taught to sing anti-fascist songs, and then bam, and extraction. So it turns out that Zelensky is fulfilling his promises: he pulled the Azov people out of Azovstal, liberates the lands of Ukraine, and we are regrouping from the Russian regions.
      1. Mikhail Sidorov
        Mikhail Sidorov 25 November 2022 07: 13
        -37
        It is worth noting that the Ukrainian army has goals that are quite understandable to everyone: to liberate their lands
        yes. And what was the motivation in Germany in 1945? Or maybe they didn’t fight or there was no goal? Or did they not want to liberate their lands, so to speak? I think the analogies are clear. Stop "lifting shit on a pitchfork".
        1. Svale
          Svale 25 November 2022 08: 56
          +25
          Mikhail Sidorov (Mikhail) - You are talking nonsense. In the 45th, both sides had an iron motivation.
          1. NetKeys
            NetKeys 25 November 2022 13: 36
            +5
            You were asked separately about the fascist army. The question was asked differently, and not "whether both sides had reasons to continue fighting."
            As if the Red Army was obliged to take into account their sacred "motivation" to protect "their" land.
          2. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 25 November 2022 14: 50
            +19
            Quote from Swale
            Mikhail Sidorov (Mikhail) - You are talking nonsense. In the 45th, both sides had an iron motivation.

            Mikhail is unaware that our motivation was much stronger. Destroyed cities, burned villages, millions of civilians killed by the Nazis and political commissars did not eat their bread in vain - they brought this very motivation to every fighter. Just like today, the motivation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is much stronger than our motivation. And there are no political departments in the troops, and who will explain the basics of "motivation" to the fighters.
            What is war? This is a continuation of politics with the help of the army. And how, under these conditions, can the army not be politicized? Therefore, the army simply must have political departments, and political officers in the subdivisions. A soldier must know what he is fighting for. The political officer will tell him about this. Otherwise, how???
            1. nerovnayadoroga
              nerovnayadoroga 25 November 2022 22: 59
              +33
              What motivation do you want? Work 12 or more hours a day and seven days a week on shifts for half a year for 50-70 thousand to feed their families, there is no work in the villages, salary from 10000 or drinking body alcohol, and in the city there is not much work for a normal salary, people turned into slaves and continue to do so for the sake of the oligarchy, which, by the way, hides its income from our great master of taxes Mishustin, for whom to fight and for how much 100 or 195, or again, as always, you were not there and we divided your money, all nonsense this is ! There is only one idea, SOCIAL JUSTICE WITH THE REPLACEMENT OF THE STATE ORGANIZATION, people DO NOT have faith in this power of thieves, that's the whole Russian "idea" !?
              1. ism_ek
                ism_ek 26 November 2022 12: 57
                0
                Quote: nerovnayadoroga
                People have NO FAITH of this power of thieves, that's the whole Russian "idea" !?

                Yes, in Ukraine the authorities are even worse.
                I talked a lot with Ukrainians in the early 90s, who were still brought up by the Soviet school, like us. They are more aggressive than us. I'm talking about ordinary people, Rukh supporters were generally crazy.
                And the fact that three failed twelve - does not surprise me at all. We have large open spaces, we are not used to fighting. And they have a large population in a small area, they are like herring in a barrel. Large separation by region. The language in eastern and western Ukraine is essentially different. When was the last time you heard about a fight in Russia - "district against district"? And it's a common thing there.
                Well, Serdyukov's purges of our army. Almost all the lieutenants who took out the second Chechen one were thrown out of the army (((in the XNUMXs ... There are no people among the current colonels and generals who actually commanded a platoon in Chechnya. They really led people under bullets.
                Well, let's learn to fight again ...
              2. Andrey Stavropolsky
                Andrey Stavropolsky 26 November 2022 23: 43
                0
                Wow. Whom to replace and write a concept to move forward. And so, an empty lie.
              3. Geo73
                Geo73 29 November 2022 10: 35
                0
                To listen to you, it’s us, the peasants with their asses flogged by overlords, that the dogs of the knights on Lake Peipsi rolled out, including due to lack of motivation, hmmm?
        2. NetKeys
          NetKeys 25 November 2022 13: 32
          +1
          Absolutely right. Especially delivered that ukroreikh allegedly has a respected goal to liberate their lands. The obligatory elements of such statements are very aptly omitted.
          From the age of 14, the Nazi regime liberated the lands of Donbass from Ukrainian citizens with artillery and air strikes. Their lands from their own city blocks. And now he continues to vacate residential buildings. And in Mariupol especially. And Bandera, of course, liberated "their" lands in 44-51.
          It is interesting, but in yard or school fights there were such affirmatives, or immediately in a knee-elbow position. In a simple way: they want to fill your face and humiliate you. So, unless in order to accept a fight, one should first thoroughly deal with the origin, motives, correspondence of the gopnik, his passport, who offended him, whether he considers your money and things to be his own and came to "beat" them off. And since the gopnik considers your money and phones to be his, then you should accept fractures and violence from him, as was the case with dozens of others from your yard. Indeed, where does the motivation come from. After all, the gopnik protects "his".
          1. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 25 November 2022 15: 03
            +12
            Quote: CleanKeys

            From the age of 14, the Nazi regime liberated the lands of Donbass from Ukrainian citizens with artillery and air strikes. Their lands from their own city blocks. And now he continues to vacate residential buildings. And in Mariupol especially.

            You are 100% wrong.
            "Fence the Donbass with barbed wire and hit them with a nuclear bomb" (Yulia Tymoshenko)
            "Thank you for protecting us from these scum" (to the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the future president, V. Zelensky)
            "Russia captured Donbass" (all media outskirts)
            Therefore, the soldiers and officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, not to mention the national battalions, did not consider the inhabitants of Donbass to be their fellow citizens.
        3. Nikolay310
          Nikolay310 26 November 2022 01: 29
          +4
          in the 45th year, the German army was defeated by the Red Army, which came to the enemy’s lair to finish him off ... the army of the plywood corrugator (who, by some misunderstanding, is not yet retired with the deprivation of all tsatsok and trinkets) came to the enemy’s lair ( Kyiv, Bucha, Irpin) for the sake of making a gesture of goodwill
        4. Unknown
          Unknown 26 November 2022 04: 48
          +2
          Quote: Mikhail Sidorov
          yes. And what was the motivation in Germany in 1945? Or maybe they didn’t fight or there was no goal?

          That's the motivation in Germany...
          The inscription on the tablet: “Who fights may die. Whoever betrays his fatherland must die. We had to die. "The body of the hanged Unterscharführer Leo Lamour (Leo Lamour, 1906-1945) on Leonrodplatz in Eichstette
        5. Evgeny Ivanov_5
          Evgeny Ivanov_5 26 November 2022 09: 19
          +1
          To be honest, according to the logic of a large number of publics in VO, after crossing the border in 1944, the Red Army began to wage an aggressive war (like we are now). And the fact that there are now fighters surrendering, as in the episode under consideration, is natural and normal, and even good because it is "MODE". And the worst thing is that in the minds again only one thing "The master is to blame." It reminds me of the groans of an alcoholic from the Russian fleet, that the royal cup made him an alcoholic, and not he turned himself into it. And here again we are not to blame. Raising our children (we ourselves run to school to grab teachers by the chest), behaving ourselves sometimes not in the most honest and best way. And then we cry out and demand something from the state, but so that the state does not strain us so good, but gives us more, more ... So then we get such surrendered. Well-fed, clean, with weapons and ammunition and in no way reminiscent of our prisoners in 1941 after another massacre, who fell under the Wehrmacht. And in general, somehow in my unit in the second Chechen one it was a mess, and that's why I went through the entire business trip with the "present".
          1. zenion
            zenion 26 November 2022 15: 32
            -4
            Evgeny Ivanov_5. And the tsarist army in 1814, waging a war of conquest, captured Paris. And I was in Paris for over a year. And not just was, but also robbed, killed and drank for free in eateries and shouted pour quickly.
      2. NetKeys
        NetKeys 25 November 2022 13: 44
        +8
        And we will not go into the content of "motivation", as long as there is, any one is good? Is it okay that the motivation is "destroy all Russian subhumans", which was formed many years before the start of hostilities?
        Ukroreich raises "motivation" by shooting his own in front of the ranks. Detachments. Snitches in divisions. Executions without trial. Therefore, many ukrov do not have it. Who is up to the elbow in the blood - everything is in order. Like SS-sheep, who knew that the Red Army would not take them prisoner.
        1. Nikolay310
          Nikolay310 26 November 2022 01: 35
          +7
          and in Rossiyushka for many years what was formed? that there is no alternative to the Minsk agreements, that no one promised anything to the lazy half-Khokhlovs of Donetsk and Lugansk??? and even now, supposedly, all such a Za-Russian deputy in the West is saying something about the incomprehensible status of Kherson ... and even after mentioning the Constitution, he continues his mantra about incomprehensibility ... who prevented you from strengthening the army for 8 years, and not playing biathlon ? who prevented on February 24 and later to express the CLEAR goals of the operation, and not tell tales about Lenin ??? it’s easiest to poke a finger at ukrov ... only it’s scary to look at your reflection in the mirror ... and from this fear all these laws about fakes, discredit and a new decree appear, which, from December 1, in general, essentially prohibits talking about SVO ... although in fact, no one has done so much to discredit the Army as its plywood marshal and his numerous gerasims and mums
          1. zenion
            zenion 26 November 2022 15: 36
            +3
            The main enemy of today's Russia is Lenin in the Mausoleum and Stalin, who built a huge, strong state to spite the panama, which they finally broke down and still cannot break. Here they are to blame. And the war, according to today's concepts, was won by those who, in spite of Stalin, won the war, with a shovel in their hands, and so on. It turned out that for the current government, these people do not fit with a shovel.
            1. Andrey Stavropolsky
              Andrey Stavropolsky 26 November 2022 23: 48
              -4
              Yes, Lenin and a strong state are different concepts
      3. Vic Vic
        Vic Vic 25 November 2022 16: 17
        +8
        I don’t undertake to generalize, but from my own experience, talking here with a person from there (he works here), he says that all the peasants hid in the villages and do not want to go to war.
    3. Mikhail Sidorov
      Mikhail Sidorov 25 November 2022 07: 10
      -24
      it is worth noting that the Ukrainian army is quite strongly motivated, unlike ours ...
      and what is the great motivation of the Ukrainian army, explain? In the shelling of cities, in the executions of our military personnel or civilians in captured cities and villages? Or maybe society in Ukraine is more motivated? Have you seen the latest data on the population of 404 oh? About 25 million are left, they are running so that their legs stick in their ass.
      And the question of 500 meters is really shrouded in darkness, while it is a military secret. The scale of 500 x is apparently really large, it only remains to be assumed ...
      1. vitvit123
        vitvit123 25 November 2022 09: 59
        +14
        The motivation of the Ukrainian army is manifested in its victories over our army, for now, isn't it? Everyone correctly writes that we do not have an ideology, therefore there can be no motivation! This is one thing that "follows" from another ..
        1. sadam2
          sadam2 25 November 2022 14: 44
          0
          I agree when the mobilized get to the front for rotation, this will all get worse. We definitely have motivation issues. To do what . .?
          Increase the law for captivity to 20 years?
          Skabeev in the 2nd shift?
          More sledgehammers and parade grounds on TV?
          Anyone can cheat. Well, at least you offer options when you are already stuck
          1. vitvit123
            vitvit123 25 November 2022 16: 02
            +30
            You can't even imagine what simple options!..
            First: this is our president to go on TV to the people and say:
            My dears, I screwed up here with my generals and the war went wrong .. I screwed up because the generals, etc., rub points on me, that everything is cool with us and that analysts report to me that we will defeat Ukraine with one left! .. .they misled me and they were shot!!! Because I think this is a commensurate fee in such matters .. it will be difficult further, but now let's start living differently ...
            Second: start introducing an official ideology in the country, yes, late, but better late than never ..
            The third is to force officials who are in uniform, in positions, etc., to work. who manage subordinates .. corny, if you see a fat policeman, he will immediately have an exam in physio and subsequent dismissal if he doesn’t pass ... etc.
            Introduce confiscation of property from corrupt officials and their accomplices, all this is calculated simply ...
            There are many ways, but the will of the president is needed, but we don’t see it ..
            1. sadam2
              sadam2 25 November 2022 16: 44
              +15
              For some reason, our least hope is for our guarantor, he beat himself with many moves. In 15 months, he will need an electorate who, apart from aggravating poverty, does not shine, and his priority now is somehow to curtail all this trash more or less worthily
              1. Machito
                Machito 25 November 2022 17: 37
                +12
                Quote from Sadam2
                For some reason, our least hope is for our guarantor, he beat himself with many moves. In 15 months, he will need an electorate who, apart from aggravating poverty, does not shine, and his priority now is somehow to curtail all this trash more or less worthily

                Do you doubt that he will gain the necessary 80% of the votes in the elections?
                If something depended on the elections, then they would not let us in. (C) Mark Twain.
              2. vitvit123
                vitvit123 25 November 2022 17: 43
                +3
                I spoke options for my vision of a way out of the situation .. but what happens in real life, I am not responsible for this ..
              3. fiberboard
                fiberboard 26 November 2022 06: 42
                +3
                He does not need the electorate, he has Ellochka and the apparatus. Which has been shown time and time again.
            2. ratcatcher
              ratcatcher 25 November 2022 16: 54
              +15
              "begin to introduce an official ideology in the country"
              First, I wonder which one? Will billionaires with yachts and villas around the world and the poor have the same ideology? What is it? They have long been trying to smuggle it in the form of "braces" and official "patriotism". But "it is easier for a camel to go into the eye of a needle." Even patriotism for different segments of the population and people of different political views is not the same.
              Secondly, have you seen the constitution of the Russian Federation? About the lack of state ideology. Or will we rewrite again, as the left leg wants?
              1. vitvit123
                vitvit123 25 November 2022 17: 49
                +2
                The constitution means to rewrite it according to ideology, no question, I think the people will support this and this is my vision ..
                Then yachts and palaces, this is all garbage, this doesn’t bother me in any way ... Kadyrov also has palaces and yachts (figuratively) and a car of money and fought against us, but I have no questions for him! .. I have about he has a very good opinion ... just to force the owners of a huge fortune to fork out not much for the war, for the soldiers ... and the people will see the ideology .. and in general, to create an ideology, if you don’t give a damn, there would be a desire, this is a problem ...
                1. AdAstra
                  AdAstra 25 November 2022 18: 46
                  +8
                  And I have questions and there are members of my family.
                  1. vitvit123
                    vitvit123 25 November 2022 21: 16
                    -4
                    Why did you write your comment without specifics, could you explain? If it’s just for the sake of writing something, then it’s understandable, but if it’s a counterargument for me, then it’s original! Maybe you think that I can read your mind? Disappointing, no, I can't...
                    1. AdAstra
                      AdAstra 25 November 2022 21: 51
                      +14
                      You wrote that palaces and yachts are all garbage, but this is far from garbage. That is why he not only has everything written and a whole emirate as part of the Russian Federation, but my brother has been commemorated for 22 years and not only him, but in fact his brother and others "ears from a dead donkey"?
                      1. vitvit123
                        vitvit123 26 November 2022 07: 12
                        -2
                        Do you think that aseh can be made rich? All that you wrote is rhetorical questions, so I will not answer, so as not to breed another flood and banality ..
                2. ratcatcher
                  ratcatcher 27 November 2022 02: 46
                  +2
                  "The constitution means to rewrite it according to ideology, it's not a question, I think the people will support this and this is my vision .." - not an empty piece of paper, to be ruled by whoever wants. And the question remains the same - WHAT ideology do you want to write down? Ideology is more than just spitting. If this is an ideology, not an imitation.
                  And many of our citizens have questions about social inequality, yachts and palaces. And you need to fork out not "a little for the war", but a lot "for the development of the country."
                  And the ideology actually determines what kind of country we are building and on what principles. So don't give a damn. Not once or twice.
                  1. vitvit123
                    vitvit123 27 November 2022 06: 40
                    0
                    Your opinion is this, but mine is different .. ideology is a dummy for the people, you can come up with it in 5 minutes without particularly straining, just depending on what kind of ideology we are talking about .. maybe the ideology of the country's development, then you can’t think of anything new, only past options, and the ideology of the warriors with Ukraine, then there may be options .. by the way, the question of imitation, it is relative ..
                    Let them spend a lot, I don’t mind, but there may be problems in the economy, for which we, as always, are not ready ..
                    What country can we build? There are only two options!, so it’s not difficult to come up with an ideology, one, two ..
                    1. Planem
                      Planem 27 November 2022 13: 30
                      0
                      Ideology can come up quickly. Let not in 5 minutes, as you write, but in 5 days or weeks, and even months, but still by historical standards - quickly. The problem is that ideology should not be for appearances, not for deceiving suckers, but for deeds, for inspiring the people. Only then it will be useful for the state and the working society. But it will work if it is understood by the people and shared by them, creating order and harmony in society, and not disorganization, struggle between people and mutual insults and discontent. An ideology can be noble, as was the Soviet ideology of comradeship, justice and equality, creative labor, the planned development of production and the improvement of the well-being of workers. But it can work well even being base, which was the ideology of Hitler's or Bandera Nazism and modern neo-Banderism. The ideology of the superiority of one's own nation over others, the creation of a great state and the universal appropriation of freebies at the expense of other peoples, in Germany, Italy, in modern Ukraine, too, as history shows, inspired and inspires very many, even the majority. Especially if the stick of militant groups and special services formations is added to the carrot of ideology. However, it is not true that there is no ideology in Russia now, it exists - formally the ideology of democracy, in fact the ideology of the market, business, enrichment. The problem is that this ideology, if it works, is only for the benefit of the overwhelming minority in society, but at the same time it brings disorganization, degradation and decay into society. But there is also the problem of the actual implementation of ideology by the authorities. In late Soviet times, the authorities actually began to follow the Soviet ideology less and less, and now the ideology of democracy is becoming more and more a fiction, an empty slogan.
                    2. ratcatcher
                      ratcatcher 28 November 2022 04: 21
                      +1
                      "Therefore, it is not difficult to come up with an ideology" - I will answer with a quote from Shakespeare "Nothing will come out of nothing." Nobody needs such an ideology in FIG. In addition, those who use ideology without believing in it themselves are scoundrels.
                  2. Kurganets-45
                    Kurganets-45 28 November 2022 14: 03
                    0
                    as they said in one famous film: "what is the national idea of ​​​​our people (Russians) now - grandmothers? grandmothers of ideas cannot be"
              2. Skorin
                Skorin 26 November 2022 08: 56
                +14
                Yes, there is a native ideology in the country))). Its provisions are simple and unpretentious. 1. Those who do not have a billion, let them go to hell (businessman S. Polonsky, 2008). 2. The state doesn't owe you anything (O. Gladkikh, head of the youth policy department of the Sverdlovsk region). 3. Russians are lazy and don't work well. You give more migrants... The results are logical.
            3. certero
              certero 25 November 2022 19: 29
              +12
              Quote: vitvit123
              First: this is our president to go on TV to the people and say:
              My dears, I'm screwed here

              compared to this event, the likelihood of aliens arriving and solving all our problems is about 1.000 times higher.
              1. vitvit123
                vitvit123 25 November 2022 21: 20
                0
                This is a different question! I was asked how I would ideally see, I answered ... this implies elements of fantasy !! Or do you think I really think it will happen? Well, you can’t do it all ... without thinking .. you make you write platitudes ..
            4. aglet
              aglet 26 November 2022 10: 37
              +3
              "First: this is our president to go on TV to the people ...
              Second: start introducing an official ideology in the country...
              The third is to force officials to work ...
              Introduce confiscation of property from corrupt officials and their accomplices..."
              and then I woke up
            5. VSO-396
              VSO-396 28 November 2022 05: 33
              0
              Second: start introducing an official ideology in the country, yes, late, but better late than never
              There are many ways, but the will of the president is needed, but we don’t see it .. [/ quote]
              What did you mean? What is the official ideology in a capitalist country? For faith, the king and the Fatherland? So it's not the 19th century on the street. Although capitalism in Russia is like the 19th century.
          2. Machito
            Machito 25 November 2022 17: 29
            +12
            Quote from Sadam2
            I agree when the mobilized get to the front for rotation, this will all get worse. We definitely have motivation issues. To do what . .?
            Increase the law for captivity to 20 years?
            Skabeev in the 2nd shift?
            More sledgehammers and parade grounds on TV?
            Anyone can cheat. Well, at least you offer options when you are already stuck

            In the Roman Empire, two thousand years ago, citizens were given land for military service, while our loans were frozen. Well, we don't have land for veterans. We are not a huge Roman Empire, but just a small Russian Federation. Because our nation is dying out, that there is nowhere to live. And we don't have the money to build new factories with 25 million high-tech jobs. So the motivation is this: for a wrecked tank - 100000 rubles. And if the tank knocked out a gun crew of 6-8 people? We divide 100000 by 8, we get 12500 rubles. In Moscow, a crane costs 3000 rubles to install. Installed 4 cranes, consider that the tank was knocked out. Here is such a motivation.
        2. Dart2027
          Dart2027 25 November 2022 18: 52
          -5
          Quote: vitvit123
          The motivation of the Ukrainian army is manifested in its victories over our army

          Is it when they are driven forward under the threat of being shot, and ours retreat without entering into a tough exchange and mow down with artillery and rockets?
          1. certero
            certero 26 November 2022 12: 39
            +8
            Quote: Dart2027
            Is it when they are driven forward under the threat of being shot, and ours retreat without entering into a tough exchange and mow down with artillery and rockets?

            Don't you think that such stories in the tenth month of the special operation are no longer impressive?
            And the accuracy of our artillery and fire installations We all see the endless fields strewn with funnels.
            you don’t get used to artillery, you can watch a recent video where Ukrainian infantry on a metallurgist drives up close to our positions and the battle moves already in the trenches into a skirmish at a distance of 20 m
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 26 November 2022 13: 03
              -3
              Quote: certero
              Don't you think that such stories in the tenth month of the special operation are no longer impressive?
              Considering how many people were put there, they are impressive.
              Quote: certero
              We all see the endless fields strewn with funnels.
              What are guided and unguided munitions you apparently do not know.
              Quote: certero
              a recent video where the Ukrainian infantry at the metallurgist drives up close to our positions
              What is this?
          2. vitvit123
            vitvit123 26 November 2022 12: 48
            +8
            If you see it in this perspective, then the answer is yes! I want to ask, when will we mow all this? 9 months was not enough for mowing?
            Well, to be honest, write nonsense .. when they retreated from near Kyiv, who-whom they mowed down there? Are you here or when? We were mowed down there! When in the Kharkov region. They ran, who did we mow down there? There we were mowed down again! When they left the Kherson region, whom did we mow down? There we were allowed to leave without great losses! Are you here or when? Mower, fir-trees...
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 26 November 2022 13: 07
              -7
              Quote: vitvit123
              when they retreated from near Kyiv
              And how many were there near Kyiv?
              Quote: vitvit123
              When in the Kharkov region. They ran, who did we mow down there? There we were mowed down again!
              Truth? Well, what terrible losses were there?
              Quote: vitvit123
              There we were allowed to leave without great losses.
              Yes, yes, yes, it was allowed, Bandera and their masters ... It's just that even they had the sense to understand that lying about some losses of the RF Armed Forces would be simply ridiculous.
              1. vitvit123
                vitvit123 26 November 2022 13: 37
                0
                That is, you do not believe in losses during the retreat from Kyiv? And believe me only if you tell the number of losses? Original! Of course, it’s better for you not to say that there is even a video where ours are finished off by those who were caught during the retreat, and how artillery could work on the retreating ones, this is a classic ...
                Near Kharkov ... well, they draped so that they forgot their detachment of riot police and left a bunch of equipment, and in general there is no retreat without losses, only in the case of an agreement, as in Kherson! If you do not understand this, then ... "I take off my hat" to you ...
                How much more will we "mow"?
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 26 November 2022 14: 49
                  -4
                  Quote: vitvit123
                  That is, you do not believe in losses during the retreat from Kyiv? And believe me only if you tell the number of losses? Original!

                  Well, what were these losses? “I don’t know the numbers, because I can’t know, but I’m sure that they were.” There is official information about the losses, as well as about what kind of losses the APU has.
                  1. vitvit123
                    vitvit123 26 November 2022 15: 41
                    +2
                    At least about 10 people who did not have time to leave were executed on camera !! Arranges ?

                    And, let me ask you, do you believe the official statistics?
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 26 November 2022 16: 03
                      +2
                      Quote: vitvit123
                      At least about 10 people who did not have time to leave

                      Io is only those about which it is officially known.
                      Quote: vitvit123
                      do you believe the official statistics

                      And you mean believe that said no one knows where.
                      1. vitvit123
                        vitvit123 26 November 2022 16: 15
                        0
                        Officially, no one voiced those executed, what are you talking about? We have it now classified and officials will not report about it !! It's just in carts, like so much more...

                        Yes, I believe that we are retreating, not regrouping, because. it says it is not clear who !!! And people with whom I spoke personally confirm, including people who walked and then retreated from the hostel ... my very close person has been fighting from the very beginning of the war in other directions! And I draw conclusions based on conversations with them and my vision! But I don't think that means anything to you...
                        So we stop serving lunch ....
                        Everyone, goodbye
                      2. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 26 November 2022 16: 27
                        0
                        Quote: vitvit123
                        It is now classified in our country and officials will not report about it!

                        Official losses were announced.
                        Quote: vitvit123
                        And confirm the people with whom I spoke personally

                        One grandmother said I remember this song from perestroika.
                      3. vitvit123
                        vitvit123 26 November 2022 16: 39
                        0
                        Are you here or when? Where was it announced in official losses, specifically the place of death? Nowhere! It turns out that people died, but because they didn’t say where exactly they died, there are no losses! So what?
                        And for the grandmother it's easier with words! I said I personally communicated and communicate with the participants .. just this week we transported a bus of our soldiers from the hospital to the sanatorium, for recovery from one city to another !!! .. are you here or when? What a grandma??!! A full minibus of guys, just from there ... you don't care at all? What's in the tank?
                      4. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 26 November 2022 17: 08
                        0
                        Quote: vitvit123
                        Where was it announced in official losses, specifically the place of death?

                        The official figure was announced at that time, and it would be too much to paint where exactly which of the six thousand died.
                        Quote: vitvit123
                        And for the grandmother it's easier with words! I said I personally communicated and communicate with the participants

                        Yes, yes, yes, then counterintelligence should be interested in you and these participants. And by the way, how are the dead restored in the sanatorium? Are you here screaming about piles of corpses that no one knows except you?
                      5. vitvit123
                        vitvit123 26 November 2022 17: 30
                        +2
                        I have no words !! My opinion is that you do not quite adequately perceive reality! So throughout the country there are already many participants walking among ordinary people who do not participate. They communicate with acquaintances .. you don't understand this? And what will counterintelligence do in this case, and why?
                        Hear swelling, screaming, bleating, smelling here you are, and I spoke Russian and did not mention the mountains of corpses! Where did I mention mountains of corpses - a liar?
                      6. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 26 November 2022 18: 03
                        +1
                        Quote: vitvit123
                        Hear swelling, screaming, bleating, smelling here you are, and I spoke Russian and did not mention the mountains of corpses! Where did I mention mountains of corpses - a liar?

                        Quote: vitvit123
                        Well, to be honest, write nonsense .. when they retreated from near Kyiv, who-whom they mowed down there? Are you here or when? We were mowed down there! When in the Kharkov region. They ran, who did we mow down there? There we were mowed down again!

                        Don't remember what you write?
                        Quote: vitvit123
                        My opinion is that you do not quite adequately perceive reality!

                        Yes, yes, yes ... When there was an attempted coup in Belarus, then some beat their chests, yelling that the whole country was for Tikhanovskaya. when there was an attempt in Kazakhstan, then some beat their chests, yelling that the whole country was for the opposition. When the riots were organized in our country ... In general, sources such as the OBS are well known to me.
                        Quote: vitvit123
                        And what will counterintelligence do in this case, and why?
                        Well, you position yourself as a person involved, that is, you had to give a non-disclosure agreement.
                      7. vitvit123
                        vitvit123 26 November 2022 18: 22
                        0
                        The term - kosim - was used by you first, and I only used it with sarcasm !! But there was sarcasm, with a share of sarcasm! Don't you even understand it?
                        I position myself as a person who is rooting for our wars, worried about the course of the war! Therefore, I try to find out as much information as possible .. and when there is an opportunity to find out how things really stood out, I will definitely talk to a person. I have already seen enough such people to draw conclusions with a high degree of reality! What you write about non-disclosure is sick fantasies! I am an ordinary, ordinary citizen! Can't I chat with members? Moreover, among them there are my relatives who have been there since the very beginning of the war ...
                        I have no words ! You are in some kind of delirium .. you need to communicate with people and listen to what they tell you (like not to worry and not be interested), then take it as a guide to action and do not argue with them ..
                      8. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 26 November 2022 19: 15
                        0
                        Quote: vitvit123
                        The term - kosim - was used by you first, and I only used it with sarcasm !! But there was sarcasm, with a share of sarcasm!

                        That is, we begin to mow.
                        Quote: vitvit123
                        I am an ordinary, ordinary citizen! Can't I chat with members? Moreover, among them there are my relatives who have been there since the very beginning of the war ...
                        I have no words ! You are in some kind of delirium .. you need to communicate with people and listen to what they tell you (like not to worry and not be interested), then take it as a guide to action and do not argue with them ..

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Yes, yes, yes ... When there was an attempted coup in Belarus, then some beat their chests, yelling that the whole country was for Tikhanovskaya. when there was an attempt in Kazakhstan, then some beat their chests, yelling that the whole country was for the opposition. When the riots were organized in our country ... In general, sources such as the OBS are well known to me.
                      9. vitvit123
                        vitvit123 26 November 2022 19: 24
                        0
                        You are getting richer and richer!...
                        I'm not smart enough to write something else in this answer ..
                      10. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 26 November 2022 19: 52
                        0
                        Quote: vitvit123
                        I'm not that smart

                        I noticed.
                      11. vitvit123
                        vitvit123 26 November 2022 19: 55
                        0
                        Take the bait they throw at you..
                        Do you understand why I wrote this? Thanks you didn't let me down... wink
                      12. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 26 November 2022 20: 58
                        0
                        Quote: vitvit123
                        Do you understand why I wrote this?

                        Because you can’t write anything but stories from the OBS.
                      13. vitvit123
                        vitvit123 26 November 2022 21: 44
                        0
                        Everything is richer and richer!!! wink wink wink ..................
                      14. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 26 November 2022 22: 29
                        0
                        Quote: vitvit123
                        Everything is richer and richer!!!

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Yes, yes, yes ... When there was an attempted coup in Belarus, then some beat their chests, yelling that the whole country was for Tikhanovskaya. when there was an attempt in Kazakhstan, then some beat their chests, yelling that the whole country was for the opposition. When the riots were organized in our country ... In general, sources such as the OBS are well known to me.
                      15. vitvit123
                        vitvit123 27 November 2022 06: 29
                        0
                        Your condition simply has no price !!! wink
                        Hello Napoleon...
                      16. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 27 November 2022 06: 43
                        0
                        Quote: vitvit123
                        Your condition simply has no price !!!

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Yes, yes, yes ... When there was an attempted coup in Belarus, then some beat their chests, yelling that the whole country was for Tikhanovskaya. when there was an attempt in Kazakhstan, then some beat their chests, yelling that the whole country was for the opposition. When the riots were organized in our country ... In general, sources such as the OBS are well known to me.
                  2. VSO-396
                    VSO-396 28 November 2022 05: 38
                    +1
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Quote: vitvit123
                    That is, you do not believe in losses during the retreat from Kyiv? And believe me only if you tell the number of losses? Original!

                    Well, what were these losses? “I don’t know the numbers, because I can’t know, but I’m sure that they were.” There is official information about the losses, as well as about what kind of losses the APU has.

                    Holy naivety!
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 28 November 2022 20: 11
                      -1
                      Quote: VSO-396
                      Holy naivety!

                      Self-critical.
                  3. svoroponov
                    svoroponov 28 November 2022 21: 10
                    +3
                    When departing from Kyiv, the losses were not large. Several rear small groups either lingered or got lost on the ground and were taken prisoner. The landing party withdrew practically without losses, except for a few.
                    Now for the ideology. He took up arms and took the oath. That's it, the ideology is the same - to carry out military orders.
                    And the worldview and upbringing with different loves are parents and school. Patriotic education does not depend on wealth at all. There is only one homeland - Russia. An enemy will come, it will be bad for everyone. Both rich and poor. The enemy of the Slavs is the Anglo-Saxons. No one will be spared. So there is only one ideology - love and protection of the Motherland and Fatherland in accordance with orders, once he arrived in the army and took up arms.
                    And according to the answers here - whining is beyond measure. It seems that either those who did not serve, or some kind of cowards or haters of the Russian State, gathered.
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 28 November 2022 21: 49
                      -1
                      Quote: svoroponov
                      It seems that either those who did not serve, or some kind of cowards or haters of the Russian State, gathered.

                      I have long noticed that there are many fans of the idea of ​​revolution here. And what kind of fairy tales do some tell about what happened in the USSR.
        3. Sotskiy
          Sotskiy 26 November 2022 07: 55
          +6
          Quote: vitvit123
          Everyone correctly writes that we do not have an ideology, therefore there can be no motivation! This is one thing that "follows" from another ..

          Well, why is there no ideology, it is. For more than 30 years, the state has been hammering this ideology into everyone's head: "The main thing in this life is 'despicable metal', everything else is prejudice."
          Well, what an ideology, such a result. wink
          They also wrote about the need to return political officers ....
          I'm embarrassed to ask, why are the clergy no longer satisfied? After all, it was they who were supposed to replace the Soviet political officers in the new, capitalist Russian Federation on the ideological front. Or did it all come down to paid services for a banal funeral service?
          1. Ulan.1812
            Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 11: 29
            +3
            Quote: Sovetskiy
            Quote: vitvit123
            Everyone correctly writes that we do not have an ideology, therefore there can be no motivation! This is one thing that "follows" from another ..

            Well, why is there no ideology, it is. For more than 30 years, the state has been hammering this ideology into everyone's head: "The main thing in this life is 'despicable metal', everything else is prejudice."
            Well, what an ideology, such a result. wink
            They also wrote about the need to return political officers ....
            I'm embarrassed to ask, why are the clergy no longer satisfied? After all, it was they who were supposed to replace the Soviet political officers in the new, capitalist Russian Federation on the ideological front. Or did it all come down to paid services for a banal funeral service?

            This ideology is described in the film "Brother-2" by a girl of easy virtue Dasha-..."everything here is just like that... except for money."
            This ideology has been introduced in our country as well. Officially, it is prohibited, but in fact it reigns in everything - aggressively liberal.
            I agree about priests and political officers.
            The Germans did not take political officers prisoner and immediately shot them. So they understood what danger they pose to fascism. But churches were allowed to open.
          2. vitvit123
            vitvit123 26 November 2022 12: 50
            -1
            Let me ask, where is it indicated that the priests were to replace the political officers? Please..
            1. Sotskiy
              Sotskiy 26 November 2022 22: 25
              +3
              Quote: vitvit123
              Let me ask, where is it indicated that the priests were to replace the political officers? Please..

              How else can you explain the full-time clergymen at the VC, after the abolition of the full-time post of political officer? The massive attraction of military personnel to religious cults? wink
              1. vitvit123
                vitvit123 27 November 2022 06: 27
                0
                Also what, all HF goes to be cleaned on days off? wink
        4. Planem
          Planem 27 November 2022 16: 10
          0
          Well, the "Ukrainian army" has few victories so far, less than the Russian one. And even those are more like the results of an agreement, self-serving concessions of the military-political leadership of Russia to the Western patrons of the Kyiv regime. But what really exists is its serious resistance to the Russian Armed Forces, despite the fact that they initially many times outnumbered the Ukrainian ones in terms of forces and means, primarily in armament, taking into account its characteristics and condition, as well as in the resources at the disposal of the states. But even in this relative success of the ukrovoysk, it is unlikely that the motivation of the ukrotroyak played a really important role. In fact, the main factors of the stubborn resistance of the troops of the Kyiv regime are the repeated mobilizations of those liable for military service in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the mobilization of the entire (though, of course, not entirely) society of the territory controlled by the Kyiv regime, the imposition of strict discipline in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the active assistance of the West, and most importantly, the strange passive war, constant concessions on the part of Russia's VPR. For the Russian MPD, this is a special operation; for the Russian MPD, it is still a special operation, that is, also a war, but with much greater restrictions.
      2. skeptick2
        skeptick2 25 November 2022 12: 23
        +5
        Quote: Mikhail Sidorov
        and what is the great motivation of the Ukrainian army, explain?

        To understand the motivation of the Ukrainian army, you just need to understand the following: not Ukrainian berets touch Russian soil, but Russian Ukrainian ones. Not Russian soldiers defend their homes from the enemy, but Ukrainian ones. You need to understand that a soldier of the Armed Forces of Ukraine knows what he is fighting for - for his families and his land. Unlike Russian soldiers, not every one of them will utter the word "denazification".
        Therefore, the Donetsk airport held out for 242 days. Therefore, Mariupol held out for almost three months.
        Remind me how many days (hours?) Our troops defended Balakleya? Raisin? Estuary? And why? Yes, because there is no it, this very motivation. Why should a soldier die? For denazification?
        1. NetKeys
          NetKeys 25 November 2022 13: 50
          +10
          And you don't know the answer why the LDNR fought for 242 days for the Donetsk Airport? And also why the LDNR have been fighting all the battles since the summer of 2014. And why did the LDNR mow down ukroreich in boilers? And you don’t know where the Alley of Angels comes from in the Donbass. And the Lugansk Madonna. And where do the assertions come from that other Russian cities were ready to accept the Red Army without a shot in 2014, just like in Crimea?
          1. skeptick2
            skeptick2 25 November 2022 14: 32
            +4

            It's not about that at all. This is about motivation fighters of both belligerents in the current war. Once again I try to explain: the Armed Forces of Ukraine are fighting at home, protecting their land and their families. The RF Armed Forces are fighting on a foreign land for an incomprehensible denazification. Hence - the fear of the environment, hence - a quick retreat (if not flight) at the slightest sign of this environment. From lack of motivation. From a misunderstanding of the same mobile - why should he die in a foreign land? Everything is clear with a contractor, although dying for money is nonsense. Even more understandable is the situation with the convicts who were recruited by Prigozhin. But with what slogans should people go on the attack, forcibly cut off from their families, from their work, from their business? For denazification!!!??? For demilitarization!!!??? Or for the Motherland!!!??? So no one attacked her.
            There is no ideological basis for this war. There are no clear, understandable slogans, appeals. What can I say - there are not even goals for this war on the part of Russia.
            1. t7310
              t7310 25 November 2022 15: 04
              -13
              And the victory? Isn't the desire to be a winner a motivation? And here's another thing - we need the world ... preferably the whole
              1. skeptick2
                skeptick2 25 November 2022 16: 24
                +9
                Quote: t7310
                And the victory? Isn't the desire to be a winner a motivation?

                And what about of today's realities can be considered a victory for Russia? And how can one achieve victory in a war if there is no clear goal of this war?
                I have already asked a block of questions on this topic, I will ask again. What can be announced victory RF?
                The capture of Kyiv (from the category of science fiction)?
                Taking control of the whole of Ukraine (from the category of non-science fiction)?
                Complete destruction of the Ukrainian energy system (if possible)?
                Exit of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation to the Soviet borders of Donbass?
                Just holding Donetsk and Luhansk?
                Withdrawal to the borders until February 24 with the retention of the corridor to the Crimea?
                Withdrawal to the borders until February 24 without holding the corridor to the Crimea?
                Surrendering to Ukraine all the territory conquered after February 24, but leaving Crimea behind Russia?
                What exactly can be announced today victory Russia?
                We prudently do not recall demilitarization, because we have done demilitarization to the point that Ukraine will very soon become the first country in Europe in terms of the quantity and quality of weapons. We will mention denazification only after at least the same Peskov and Solovyov explain to us clearly and clearly what kind of animal this is? How can it be achieved without changing the Ukrainian government? Or Peskov, as usual, is talking nonsense, according to the expression of the guarantor?
            2. AdAstra
              AdAstra 25 November 2022 18: 51
              +4
              As it was in one Soviet cartoon - "The guys showed our tsar a fig! Let's all die as one for this!" hi
            3. your1970
              your1970 25 November 2022 20: 06
              +6
              Quote from: skeptick2
              Once again I try to explain: the Armed Forces of Ukraine are fighting at home, protecting their land and their families.

              Therefore, 25 million of the population remained in Ukraine - out of 36? Well, they should protect the land, like .....
              1. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 26 November 2022 05: 20
                +1
                They're supposed to protect the land.
                More and more successfully defend Londoner-upon-Thames. Reserves are pulling up yes .
              2. VSO-396
                VSO-396 28 November 2022 05: 50
                0
                Quote: your1970
                Quote from: skeptick2
                Once again I try to explain: the Armed Forces of Ukraine are fighting at home, protecting their land and their families.

                Therefore, 25 million of the population remained in Ukraine - out of 36? Well, they should protect the land, like .....

                Who? Grandparents with children?
            4. nickname7
              nickname7 26 November 2022 09: 53
              +1
              Once again I try to explain: the Armed Forces of Ukraine are fighting at home, protecting their land and their families.

              This is a false motivation for dill propaganda, since we don’t need any land in Ukraine, because jurisdiction is changing, not land. As an example, Crimea, where none of the inhabitants was deprived of land, even a garden and a summer house. Crimea has changed jurisdiction by a whole region with everything that was in it, with lands with a population, with children and household members, with chickens, dachas and apartments. The entire ownership of the peninsula for movable and immovable property was recognized by the Russian Federation; the inhabitants of Crimea live where they lived on their land.
              Similarly, the rest of the property of the population of the Criminal Code, when entering the regions, will be guaranteed by the Russian Federation.
              But dill propaganda is spreading that supposedly Russians will take your chickens and dachas away from you, this is a lie.
              1. VSO-396
                VSO-396 28 November 2022 05: 53
                0
                Quote: nickname7
                Once again I try to explain: the Armed Forces of Ukraine are fighting at home, protecting their land and their families.

                This is a false motivation for dill propaganda, since we don’t need any land in Ukraine, because jurisdiction is changing, not land. As an example, Crimea, where none of the inhabitants was deprived of land, even a garden and a summer house. Crimea has changed jurisdiction by a whole region with everything that was in it, with lands with a population, with children and household members, with chickens, dachas and apartments. The entire ownership of the peninsula for movable and immovable property was recognized by the Russian Federation; the inhabitants of Crimea live where they lived on their land.
                Similarly, the rest of the property of the population of the Criminal Code, when entering the regions, will be guaranteed by the Russian Federation.
                But dill propaganda is spreading that supposedly Russians will take your chickens and dachas away from you, this is a lie.

                Well, they do not want to change this "jurisdiction", and the current one suits them.
                1. NetKeys
                  NetKeys 2 December 2022 06: 52
                  0
                  You are satisfied, but we are not satisfied with the war to destroy Russia with the prospect of disappearing in 30-50-80 years. A war has been unleashed by the primordial world cannibals. And Ukroreich, molded by the USA and Britain, is just a piece of land with a population that is also "subject to disposal." Is the span of the last 30 years, as well as the span from November 2017, capable of being grasped by consciousness? Or, more importantly, who stepped in across the imaginary line?
              2. PC
                PC 28 November 2022 09: 04
                0
                They will also take away microwaves, washing machines and, most importantly, toilet bowls!
            5. certero
              certero 26 November 2022 12: 42
              +1
              Quote from: skeptick2
              From lack of motivation. From a misunderstanding of the same mobile - why should he die in a foreign land? Everything is clear with a contractor, although dying for money is nonsense. Even more understandable is the situation with the convicts who were recruited by Prigozhin. But with what slogans should people go on the attack, forcibly cut off from their families, from their work, from their business? For denazification!!!??? For demilitarization!!!??? Or for the Motherland!!!???

              There is a series of videos about the First World War by Yegor Yakovlev on the Digital History YouTube channel.
              The analogy with modern events is so frightening that it takes aback from it.
              It was precisely the lack of understanding for what they were fighting that led to the fact that the soldiers in the First World War ceased to obey and began to demand an end to the war.
              Actually, you can draw an analogy with our site. If at the beginning of the special operation there was no talk, but only a war until victory, now more and more people hear the opinion that it is time to end this massacre. And then the majority will become such, because, as you rightly said, the purpose of this war on the part of Russia is absolutely incomprehensible.
              1. NetKeys
                NetKeys 2 December 2022 06: 53
                -1
                The purpose of the war is absolutely clear. Another thing is that you do not accept this goal, do not share it. Everything is clear to you. As well as the desire for a strategic defeat of the Russians.
          2. aglet
            aglet 26 November 2022 10: 45
            +1
            "And you don't know the answer why the LDNR fought for 242 days for the Donetsk Airport?"
            I know. so that Ukraine has territorial misunderstandings, because countries with unresolved territorial misunderstandings are not accepted into NATO. that's it, the rest is secondary
        2. wladimirjankov
          wladimirjankov 26 November 2022 01: 13
          +12
          there is no Ukrainian land, just as there was no Ukraine itself before 1922. These are Russian lands. Millions of Russian people shed blood and gave their lives for them. This is what our authorities should have been saying and drumming into our young generation for the last thirty years. This should have been the motivation for us always.
        3. Planem
          Planem 27 November 2022 12: 24
          0
          You greatly exaggerate the importance of the motivation of military personnel in modern warfare. And for Russian soldiers, Kharkov, Odessa and Kherson, and even more so Donbass, Crimea, Belgorod and Kursk, are no less ours than for Ukrainian ones. In addition, the motivation of the military in the war depends on many factors, and not just how much they realize whose land they are fighting for. The motivation of the Ukronazis is indeed stronger than that of the Russian military forces, but because they have much stronger, more consistent and clearer propaganda, because refuseniks and deserters face much bigger problems there than in Russia, up to quick physical reprisals, because Military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine receive (at least they received before Russian mobilization) much more money compared to the average salary in the country than Russian military personnel, and the work there is much worse than in Russia. Russian soldiers do not really want to fight not for Russian Novorossia and Slobozhanshchina, which presented the newly created formation to Ukraine in 1922, and then finally gave it away in 1991, but for the Russian oligarchy and officials who have not been replaced for decades, who are already transferring their power by inheritance, for incomprehensible repeated regroupings and retreats, for agreements between the authorities and the oligarchs, for a strange war in which they turn out not to be victorious subjects, but expendable material in the hands of these officials and the oligarchs behind them. In modern warfare, the most important success factors are: 1) superiority in the quantity and quality of weapons and other technical means, 2) the level of planning of military operations and command and control of the armed forces, the degree of use of their weapons, 3) the goals and determination of the military-political leadership. The superiority of the Russian Armed Forces over the Ukronazi Armed Forces in armament is multiple, for example, in non-nuclear ground-based missiles, combat aircraft and helicopters - up to tens of times, but there are problems in their control, in the goals and determination of the Russian military forces. Hence the contradictory results of the NWO.
          1. Planem
            Planem 27 November 2022 12: 46
            0
            Separately, I want to say about Izyum. Our troops handed him over to the Ukronazis almost without a fight. If there had been an order to hold him, of course, not a formal one, but a series of orders, instructions and instructions from the Russian Defense Ministry and field generals, backed up by specific actions, then he would have been completely kept. As well as Kupyansk, and Liman, and even more so Kherson, which was given up without a fight, would have been kept. It's not about the fighters, but about the bosses, first of all, the higher ones. For example, at the moment when the Ukrainians were passing through the gaps between the Russian units, trying to surround Izyum, Verkhoglavk and the Ministry of Defense of Russia were taking military exercises in the Far East, in which, as reported in the media, 50 Russian military units took part. As you can see, 50 were found during the exercises, but they could not send at least 10-15 troops from the reserves to strike at the flanks of the advancing ukrov groups. They would then simply be defeated. As well as the almost inactive armada of Russian combat aircraft and helicopters, which, by inflicting massive strikes on the rear of the advancing enemy troops, as well as on the nearest important centers of the transport infrastructure of the territory controlled by the Kyiv regime, could simply leave the Nazis breaking through without supplies. I had to read and hear the statements of our officers who were at that moment in Izyum, who claimed that they had enough strength and means to keep the city. But there was no clear order. It turns out that the surrender of Izyum is also an agreement, like the surrender of Kherson. Only the last one was surrendered without a fight at all, by direct order to surrender.
        4. svoroponov
          svoroponov 29 November 2022 11: 40
          +2
          You know, it’s immediately clear that you are not military when you argue who is fighting for what and that Ukrainians are on their own land. Having finished with the Donbass and Luhansk, these “good guys” would have flooded into the Crimea. Or maybe to the Krasnodar Territory, to Voronezh and the Stavropol Territory. They also consider these lands their own and have plans to reject them. And the West would also support them in this, or maybe it would itself enter the war, having convenient bridgeheads near our borders and in the Crimea in the form of bases. You rassmairivayte not part of the picture and the entire canvas.
          And yet, the Ukrainians officially recognized the Soviet power as criminal. Then they must return all the lands that this criminal, in their opinion, power, gave them in the 20s of the last century. And this is almost the entire eastern part of Ukraine along the Dnieper. This is by any, even by Western standards, fair. After all, the Tribaltics are still demanding the return of their (not their) lands, and Poland is preparing papers and making claims on the lands.
      3. Xnumx vis
        Xnumx vis 25 November 2022 14: 39
        +4
        Quote: Mikhail Sidorov
        and what is the great motivation of the Ukrainian army, explain?

        The fact that they are cowardly or unwilling to fight are shot without trial or investigation In detachments of Natsiks such as Azov and foreign mercenaries ... In violence.
        1. VSO-396
          VSO-396 28 November 2022 06: 00
          0
          Quote: 30 vis
          Quote: Mikhail Sidorov
          and what is the great motivation of the Ukrainian army, explain?

          The fact that they are cowardly or unwilling to fight are shot without trial or investigation In detachments of Natsiks such as Azov and foreign mercenaries ... In violence.

          Yes, if it were so, as you say, we would observe the general desertion of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and the transition to the side of the Russian Federation.
          1. Xnumx vis
            Xnumx vis 28 November 2022 08: 24
            +1
            Quote: VSO-396
            we would have observed the wholesale desertion of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and the transition to the side of the Russian Federation.

            Didn’t it occur to you that in the eight years of the Minsk agreements they let millions of men through the war? They anointed with blood, and the families of the Vushnikov are held hostage by the green ....
            1. VSO-396
              VSO-396 29 November 2022 05: 33
              -2
              Quote: 30 vis
              Quote: VSO-396
              we would have observed the wholesale desertion of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and the transition to the side of the Russian Federation.

              Didn’t it occur to you that in the eight years of the Minsk agreements they let millions of men through the war? They anointed with blood, and the families of the Vushnikov are held hostage by the green ....

              Up to 500 thousand passed through the ATO. Well, and if we assume that they are all murderers smeared with blood, then there would be no people left in the Donbass.
              1. Xnumx vis
                Xnumx vis 29 November 2022 10: 21
                +1
                Quote: VSO-396
                Up to 500 thousand passed through the ATO. Well, and if we assume that they are all murderers smeared with blood, then there would be no people left in the Donbass.

                A lot more VSushnikov went through the fighting in the Donbass .. Not less than a million. Together with all sorts of Azov people, and the like .. nationalist over state formations ... For eight years ... More than sure that all this Bandera barefoot and vushniks are stained with blood ... Or do you think that they attended cutting courses and sewing!
      4. Nikolay310
        Nikolay310 26 November 2022 01: 37
        0
        look at the maps of military operations, for example, the same Ridovka on March 22 and now ... by the way, if you think about it, you will see that almost ALL military operations are conducted on the territory of the Russian Federation ... part of the territory of the Russian Federation is occupied by Ukrainians ... or are you like Zatulin now I'm not me ... but whose Kherson is not clear ... whose Belgorod is at least clear to people like you? Or not too much?
    4. 2112vda
      2112vda 25 November 2022 07: 55
      +23
      They have been motivated for a very long time, since the time of the civil war. They have an ideological background at a high level. This war has highlighted the rottenness of our liberal-democratic system. We do not need all sorts of "isms", if we want to survive as a state and a multinational people, it's time to turn to common sense. It is clear that Putin is "looking" from our oligarchic clan, the war in Ukraine is a clash of interests of the American-Western European bandits with our local bandits. The fact that these bandit clans set their peoples against each other is also visible to the naked eye. Until we drive our bandits into a stall, bloodshed will continue. The same applies to our opponents.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 25 November 2022 08: 48
        +18
        Quote: 2112vda
        They are motivated....Civil war. They have an ideological background at a high level. This war has highlighted the rottenness of our liberal-democratic system. ......

        It must be remembered that only the USSR was able to preserve and strengthen the country with its ideology
        When the Russian-Turkish war in the 19th century ---- Tyutchev wrote about liberals, they rejoice at our defeat! And then in the REV, the same hoopoes congratulated Mikado on his victory. Only Stalin, with his purges, removed the traitors from above and won the Second World War. And as the purges stopped, those who began to prepare the destruction of the USSR rallied
        1. your1970
          your1970 25 November 2022 20: 10
          -4
          Quote: Reptiloid
          Only Stalin, with his purges, removed the traitors from above and won the Second World War. And as the purges stopped, those who began to prepare the destruction of the USSR rallied

          That is, it was necessary to regularly shoot the top of the CPSU to save the USSR? However ... a good party - which must be periodically shot ...
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 25 November 2022 20: 42
            +10
            Quote: your1970
            .... to save the USSR, shoot the top of the CPSU ...... a good party - which must be periodically shot ...

            Not everyone was shot. They translated, demoted, exiled and they worked there ....
            The fact is that under the USSR there were no such Russophobes as under the tsar or now ---
        2. poquello
          poquello 26 November 2022 02: 47
          -2
          Quote: Reptiloid
          Tyutchev wrote about liberals, they rejoice at our defeat! And then in the REV, the same hoopoes congratulated Mikado on his victory. Only Stalin, with his purges, removed the traitors from above and won the Second World War.

          and before Stalin did not win at all?
      2. Dart2027
        Dart2027 25 November 2022 18: 54
        -3
        Quote: 2112vda
        They have an ideological background at a high level. This war has highlighted the rottenness of our liberal-democratic system.

        Do you want to say that they have communism?
    5. Comrade I
      Comrade I 25 November 2022 11: 03
      +12
      (this is not personal to the author of the comment, but in general) And why do we constantly say how the fighters on the front line should lead the seed, what is wrong with motivation, how do we need to change patriotic education in the country? And on the other hand it is impossible to approach the question? I always have three questions when there are disputes or dissatisfaction about the behavior of fighters in the NWO:
      1. if someone doesn’t like how someone fights there, well, you yourself are still not there. And instead of scribbling angry comments about where and how they should fight and risk their lives, go and show by example.
      2. And actually why should someone burn with desire? If the class that has fallen continues to drive resources and does not deny itself anything, but the children of the "respectable" ones will not go to the NWO? For what?
      3. And what are the goals? What for? If no one really explains anything, and the goals change every month.
      1. Comrade I
        Comrade I 25 November 2022 14: 38
        +6
        hit class

        ruling. T9 is naughty.
        1. ada
          ada 25 November 2022 22: 56
          +3
          Quote: Comrade Y
          hit class

          ruling. T9 is naughty.

          No no! She died - so she died! wassat
      2. sadam2
        sadam2 25 November 2022 15: 17
        +10
        Started reading the comments. Wow. Six months ago, everyone here would have had their accounts taken away like my 9-year-old.
        I repeat a week ago they were downvoted. This is not the Second World War and raising patriotism with a sledgehammer to the head or from the parade ground to the spot, the methods are such to themselves, what kind of war are such and methods
        For this basement, according to the worst scenario, it went ... either everyone hold on or everyone surrenders. The same case on the parade ground. There are appointed responsible, and there are other Kuzmichi who, ironically, got
        I do not know what to do
        Yandex offered the option of dialing couch turbopatriots at the IP address, here he is a motivated ready-made fighter. Or let him carry the money or guard that warehouse if he is not healthy. It is easy to recruit a company from our VO. For all the time here, only 2 people write bow and respect to them from the trench. The rest here are just "Gonzales"
        I feel Roman will be added soon. Roma hold your horses. We can't lose you
        1. Machito
          Machito 25 November 2022 17: 45
          +4
          Quote from Sadam2
          Started reading the comments. Wow. Six months ago, everyone here would have had their accounts taken away like my 9-year-old.
          I repeat a week ago they were downvoted. This is not the Second World War and raising patriotism with a sledgehammer to the head or from the parade ground to the spot, the methods are such to themselves, what kind of war are such and methods
          For this basement, according to the worst scenario, it went ... either everyone hold on or everyone surrenders. The same case on the parade ground. There are appointed responsible, and there are other Kuzmichi who, ironically, got
          I do not know what to do
          Yandex offered the option of dialing couch turbopatriots at the IP address, here he is a motivated ready-made fighter. Or let him carry the money or guard that warehouse if he is not healthy. It is easy to recruit a company from our VO. For all the time here, only 2 people write bow and respect to them from the trench. The rest here are just "Gonzales"
          I feel Roman will be added soon. Roma hold your horses. We can't lose you

          With VO, you can recruit a division, if not an army, with all the officers. It's just that you can't get motivated. We need an ideology. For 22 years we have not been able to form the Russian National Idea.
          Joke. A group of terrorists captured the wine cellars of Massandra. And now for two weeks they have not been able to formulate their demands. laughing lol wassat
    6. Denis_57_RU
      Denis_57_RU 26 November 2022 00: 59
      -3
      That's right, they will be better motivated! The war is at home, on their land. And none of them care about the goals of our NWO. In the same way, everything would have happened to us if they had attacked us. There are no specific designated goals of this NWO, no one needs general concepts, because no one even bothered to decipher and explain these concepts to all of us. What are the guys dying for? There would be death for some specific (s) goals, then another matter. Motivation is a very big deal, gentlemen, and it is not even necessarily monetary motivation!
      1. NetKeys
        NetKeys 30 November 2022 20: 19
        0
        This "own land" ukroreikh cleared from their own citizens since 2014? Subhuman, like all citizens of Russia. Have you heard the story about the USSR and Russian lands? Obviously not.
    7. Alexey Lobanov
      Alexey Lobanov 26 November 2022 01: 12
      +6
      We treat them like people, they treat us like animals. Who is right is not even discussed, but there is a solution, and it is gradually moving forward. Bring them to the state of animals, so that we understand that they are animals. Cruel rules of war. Moreover, these animals came to Russian soil. You won't envy the raguls.
      1. Nikolay310
        Nikolay310 26 November 2022 01: 44
        -2
        do you really think that the Donetsk fighters treated Kalyns, radishes and other trash like people??? they were FORCED to pretend that they were people ... but they were forced by those who later turned the feat of ordinary guys into trade for personal gain and dear godfather ... after the exchange with this NWO, everything became clear about the goals and objectives
        1. Alexey Lobanov
          Alexey Lobanov 26 November 2022 01: 51
          +6
          I don’t know what you understand there (about the goals and objectives), but the Donetsk guys are simple, they see a Nazi - they wet it, they see a simple bussr-combiner - they regret it. They are real people, they know how to distinguish people from animals.
    8. Zakirov Damir
      Zakirov Damir 26 November 2022 01: 18
      0
      Quote: Aerodrome
      it is worth noting that the Ukrainian army is quite strongly motivated, unlike ours ...

      With a three- to five-fold superiority in infantry, why not be motivated. Three hundred thousand mobilized people will come up and see who is more motivated.

      The Wehrmacht was also motivated - it did not help! And the Third Reich was not a match for the Ukronats. And no one has yet won the war on Lend-Lease.
      1. Ulan.1812
        Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 11: 56
        +1
        Quote: Zakirov Damir
        Quote: Aerodrome
        it is worth noting that the Ukrainian army is quite strongly motivated, unlike ours ...

        With a three- to five-fold superiority in infantry, why not be motivated. Three hundred thousand mobilized people will come up and see who is more motivated.

        The Wehrmacht was also motivated - it did not help! And the Third Reich was not a match for the Ukronats. And no one has yet won the war on Lend-Lease.

        For some reason, everyone forgot about this, as well as about the fact that many of them are stuffed with drugs.
        1. Zakirov Damir
          Zakirov Damir 26 November 2022 13: 32
          0
          Quote: Ulan.1812
          For some reason, everyone forgot about this, as well as about the fact that many of them are stuffed with drugs

          They entered the SVO with high-tech contract soldiers - VKS, air defense, aviation, armored vehicles, artillery. Initially, there were no contract soldiers, and in this case, it was planned to mobilize demobilized conscripts.
          That is why they led the SVO with a vinaigrette of paratroopers, marines, special forces, PMCs and the people's militia of the LDNR. There were no more than 200 thousand of them for everything about everything, out of 130 thousand. Taking into account the dead, disabled and wounded in hospitals, now there are no more than 100 thousand.

          It was simply not expected that Ukraine would start general mobilization and provide 5-7 times superiority in infantry. That's why they press, regardless of tenfold losses. Their task was to knock out the contract servicemen of the Russian Federation, as Stalin, with a general mobilization, knocked out the initial professional staff of the Wehrmacht by December 5, 1941, albeit in a ratio of 4.5: 1. So the Armed Forces of Ukraine knocked out in a ratio of 10: 1.

          Mobilization in the Russian Federation was unexpected for them. Now they are in a hurry, until the mobilized to the front come, use their five-fold superiority and knock out the best negotiating position.
    9. poquello
      poquello 26 November 2022 02: 28
      +1
      Quote: Aerodrome
      it is worth noting that the Ukrainian army is quite strongly motivated, unlike ours ...

      Poles?
    10. Geo73
      Geo73 26 November 2022 09: 06
      +4
      Those who have sniffed the gunpowder know that all the zampolitovskiye ideological superstructures completely fly out of their heads at the first shelling, at the first 200 or 300 cells. There is a desire to dump from the madhouse to some quiet place.

      What is holding back? Cohesion, plus a team / order, plus the reluctance of a mockery in captivity, plus support / advice / do as I experienced warriors, and as a result, biting your lip, you pull out military service.

      I believe it is necessary to call on the officers of the rear: the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB, bailiffs, feldsvyaz and officials of the executive branch.

      Any managerial/administrative/economic/public position only if there is a positive military experience
      1. Above_name
        Above_name 26 November 2022 10: 21
        +2
        "plus support / advice / do as I experienced warriors"
        Archival in battle is to feel the shoulder of a comrade next to you.
      2. Ulan.1812
        Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 12: 01
        +3
        Quote: Geo73
        Those who have sniffed the gunpowder know that all the zampolitovskiye ideological superstructures completely fly out of their heads at the first shelling, at the first 200 or 300 cells. There is a desire to dump from the madhouse to some quiet place.

        What is holding back? Cohesion, plus a team / order, plus the reluctance of a mockery in captivity, plus support / advice / do as I experienced warriors, and as a result, biting your lip, you pull out military service.

        I believe it is necessary to call on the officers of the rear: the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB, bailiffs, feldsvyaz and officials of the executive branch.

        Any managerial/administrative/economic/public position only if there is a positive military experience

        Motz father, who went to the front as a volunteer, although he had a reservation, felt like dumping after the first battle?
        Well, well ... three wounds, one severe. He carried a shard in himself all his life. Perhaps the issue is something else.
        1. Geo73
          Geo73 29 November 2022 10: 29
          +1
          My grandfather endured three wars and the last one was a wagonman/with a horse. I said the old one, since 1897, the call of 1941, an illiterate non-party collective farmer, everywhere there was a pier with horses. And returned. Another grandfather on the Bug...
          And uncle's leg and arm and eye in Europe, less than six months of fighting and - a disabled person.

          Forget about heroism, it’s not in vain that they say that in war the best die first
          1. Ulan.1812
            Ulan.1812 29 November 2022 10: 44
            0
            Quote: Geo73
            My grandfather endured three wars and the last one was a wagonman/with a horse. I said the old one, since 1897, the call of 1941, an illiterate non-party collective farmer, everywhere there was a pier with horses. And returned. Another grandfather on the Bug...
            And uncle's leg and arm and eye in Europe, less than six months of fighting and - a disabled person.

            Forget about heroism, it’s not in vain that they say that in war the best die first

            Honor and glory to them and eternal memory.
    11. valera75
      valera75 26 November 2022 11: 22
      +3
      Quote: Aerodrome
      it is worth noting that the Ukrainian army is quite strongly motivated, unlike ours ...

      That's for sure. And when we give them a reason like Kherson or return the frostbitten leaders of Azov, it’s not something that inspires, but directly throws them to the top and pushes them to feats. Both old and young worry about their army, even though they tell us that they say only the younger generation is brainwashed, they are all washed there and for a very, very long time. Here the Ukrainians defeat us 100%
      1. PC
        PC 28 November 2022 09: 15
        0
        Everyone is really brainwashed. I was convinced of this by talking with relatives who are over fifty.
    12. The comment was deleted.
    13. yuriy1863
      yuriy1863 26 November 2022 14: 16
      +6
      In Ukraine, almost the entire society is motivated. Regardless of the language in which a person communicates. Many who previously communicated in Russian are now trying to use MOV. On TV they talk about an imminent victory and have already announced that by December they will enter the Crimea. The most annoying thing is that those who used to treat Russia and Russians with sympathy have become the most irreconcilable. There were many programs and talk shows in Russian. which used to be rare. From the screens of TV and the Internet, a dirty, muddy stream is pouring solid HATE towards everything Russian. And schoolchildren in terms of the degree of "national security" will now give odds to any APU student. After 2014, Russophobia in Ukraine reached a colossal level, but after February 24, it simply went off scale and turned into a psychohysterical phobia. Everything that I have stated is based on the experience of recent communication with my relatives, friends and acquaintances (mostly already former ones) who live in southeast Ukraine. The inhuman cruelty towards the "Russians" and "orcs" is supported and approved by the majority, especially against the backdrop of the destruction of residential infrastructure and the death of civilians. Therefore, in relation to us - no rules, no pity. This is their IDEOLOGY. Therefore, all this must be known and, accordingly, the "political officers" must work, shaping our worldview and ideology for this war. Otherwise, we will not see good luck!
      1. Ulan.1812
        Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 15: 47
        0
        Quote: yuriy1863
        In Ukraine, almost the entire society is motivated. Regardless of the language in which a person communicates. Many who previously communicated in Russian are now trying to use MOV. On TV they talk about an imminent victory and have already announced that by December they will enter the Crimea. The most annoying thing is that those who used to treat Russia and Russians with sympathy have become the most irreconcilable. There were many programs and talk shows in Russian. which used to be rare. From the screens of TV and the Internet, a dirty, muddy stream is pouring solid HATE towards everything Russian. And schoolchildren in terms of the degree of "national security" will now give odds to any APU student. After 2014, Russophobia in Ukraine reached a colossal level, but after February 24, it simply went off scale and turned into a psychohysterical phobia. Everything that I have stated is based on the experience of recent communication with my relatives, friends and acquaintances (mostly already former ones) who live in southeast Ukraine. The inhuman cruelty towards the "Russians" and "orcs" is supported and approved by the majority, especially against the backdrop of the destruction of residential infrastructure and the death of civilians. Therefore, in relation to us - no rules, no pity. This is their IDEOLOGY. Therefore, all this must be known and, accordingly, the "political officers" must work, shaping our worldview and ideology for this war. Otherwise, we will not see good luck!

        That's exactly how it goes. Outrageous hatred of Russia, encouraged and motivated in every possible way. In addition, they are really sure of victory, after our failures.
        Well, what about Raisins, Balakleya, Kr. Lyman, Kherson....of course they are sure that they will take Crimea by spring.
        This is a very strong psychological nourishment and we ourselves give it to them.
        Propaganda works for them on 5 ++.
      2. PC
        PC 28 November 2022 09: 19
        0
        With mine, who live in Kharkov and Nikolaev, this is exactly what happened. Relatives have become former. I am an enemy for them, Muscovite. And once a Muscovite - to the Gilyak! And the older ones were born in the 60s.
        1. yuriy1863
          yuriy1863 28 November 2022 15: 54
          0
          And mine are all in Dnepropetrovsk. As I understand it, it is mainly Russian-speaking Ukraine that is fighting. The most "inveterate" Nazis from cities with a predominantly Russian-speaking population: Dnepropetrovsk is the birthplace of the "Right Sector", and Kharkov - "Azov". Our motivation will appear as in Chechnya, through the blood of comrades. So, contrary to the "wishlist" of the top leadership of the Armed Forces and the country as a whole. This motivation separates the "lower classes" from the "tops" and creates the basis for an internal socio-political confrontation. Here we can recall the phenomenon of General Rokhlin.
    14. Planem
      Planem 27 November 2022 11: 29
      0
      Apparently, as unfortunate as it is, it is. And the discipline of the Ukronazi army is stronger. For them it is a war, for ours it is a special operation. Nationalism and fascism presuppose discipline and ideas, albeit misanthropic, but ideas. But in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation there are no ideas. Except business ideas. And discipline is based on profit.
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 25 November 2022 05: 46
    +42
    Yes, all because there is no idea. We have been hammering on this for more than one year, but things are still there.
    "Our ideology is patriotism" (c) Senior, said. What idea do you want in a capitalist state? What kind of patriotism can there be when they write about the release of the domestic "Moskvich" from ... Chinese components .. So, a very little example ..
    1. Lykases1
      Lykases1 25 November 2022 07: 00
      +22
      I wonder what was the idea in the Chechen wars? Nevertheless, the soldiers fought. There were plenty of cases of heroism. Although there were also prisoners. Politicians leaked the first war, dragged out the second. When military operations were canceled in May 2001, contract soldiers, in some places, threw down their weapons and jumped into our moving cars, and left for Khankala. And their commanders ran and persuaded - men, wait a bit, they will send the deadlines soon. I remember this even though 20 years have passed. So maybe, just, a contract army, in the form in which it was made, is not quite what we need? Or did the commanders of this army learn to command conscripts, and could not make an army out of contract soldiers? Or have people changed?
      1. Mikhail Sidorov
        Mikhail Sidorov 25 November 2022 07: 24
        +17
        Or have people changed?

        Indeed, there are changes in people, in youth. Please note there are no fights on the streets. The guys are growing very good now. Drink and smoke less. Soft. The Internet "helps" apparently. That the pain is real and not virtual, that "you will not survive", but you will die and that's it. In war, you don't have to be a home boy. And those guys, yes, the First and the Second Chechen grew up on the street and were meaner, more adaptable to life. We caught a little of the village, and hard physical labor, maybe we ourselves were small then, but we saw how grandparents, and parents, work on the ground. More adapted to the difficult conditions of life, the guys were.
        1. Taimen
          Taimen 25 November 2022 09: 22
          +19
          Modern upbringing, infantilism, selfishness, upbringing of consumerism and the lack of real work (all the media and TV are crammed with how to win, not earn money), and the higher gentlemen and ladies show by personal example how "one should live" without working, and our whole life in recent years s0-40 has led to the fact that the soldiers who were in the USSR and old Russia have run out. There are Russians - consumers and hucksters who sell them whatever they want. "Do not be surprised at everything that happens. If during the there is trade with the enemy all over Ivanovo and they are telling us that it’s on pensions and salaries, then everything is clear. Recently, the deputies again raised good wages for themselves, but they promised to give everyone a pension for a thousand, and housing and communal services took off for the second time in a year (although according to the law, once a year). So, as he said to you: "-There is no money, but you hold on." And whoever does not listen, the latter will be taken away.
        2. Dmitry Rigov
          Dmitry Rigov 25 November 2022 12: 47
          -5
          What nonsense, on the other side is absolutely the same generation with tiktok in their heads. The only difference is that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are motivated to fight for their homeland and they have modern means of communication and intelligence. I would say now the army of rough "hillbillies" is not able to resist against the trained "urban" army of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, since the level of education in rural areas is very low, but skills in working with UAVs and electronics are very important now.
          1. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 26 November 2022 05: 26
            +5
            that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are motivated to fight for their homeland
            I talked with those who went to defend London smile ukraintsami- they are fighting for..Ukraine's place in the EU and NATO, no matter how silly it may sound. The fact that the borders were opened for them (albeit with bird rights) inspired them hoo - they believe that a little more and they will be panuvats in social housing on the Riviera.
            1. Ulan.1812
              Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 12: 16
              +3
              Quote: Bolt Cutter
              that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are motivated to fight for their homeland
              I talked with those who went to defend London smile ukraintsami- they are fighting for..Ukraine's place in the EU and NATO, no matter how silly it may sound. The fact that the borders were opened for them (albeit with bird rights) inspired them hoo - they believe that a little more and they will be panuvats in social housing on the Riviera.

              That's right, it's all bullshit..
              for the homeland, etc.
              There's a lot of stuff in there. For what kind of homeland did they kill for 8 years Donbass were hollowed out and women and children were killed.
              They paid good money. And now they pay and their weapons are modern and they are three times larger in number and the prospect is a freebie in the EU and NATO, plus detachments, drugs and of course almost 30 years of brainwashing, especially active for the last eight years, where the main thing is the dehumanization of Russia . It's easy and simple to kill subhumans who interfere with your panuvati and prevent you from joining a friendly and wealthy European family.
              So there is not one reason, but a whole complex that gave rise to such a monster.
        3. Geo73
          Geo73 26 November 2022 09: 09
          0
          There were all sorts of guys, and there were all sorts of teachers
      2. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 25 November 2022 08: 21
        +5
        Quote: Lykases1
        Nevertheless, the soldiers fought.
        it was easier there, the Chechens are completely different, unlike the Ukrainians. I will quote from Mironov "I was in this war"
        Why are you fighting? And, in my opinion, you fight well. - Don't suck up. I don't know myself. I protect my homeland. Paradox. Madhouse. Everything is simple here. Black and white. Indians and palefaces. We are defending our homeland, which they are trying to tear apart.
      3. vitvit123
        vitvit123 25 November 2022 10: 04
        +2
        Well, the Ukrainians also have a contract army, but they are fighting, because there is an idea and motivation from this .. and conscripts first fought in the Chechen company, and in the second they were already diluted with contracts and contracts went to make money with less risk of dying than now in Ukraine .. in Ukraine, the risk of dying is much higher .. society has changed now .. society 80-90, this is not a society of 00-10s .. there are a lot of nuances, as always ..
        1. Lykases1
          Lykases1 25 November 2022 10: 43
          +5
          Maybe so. Or maybe for refusal to serve, during the b.d., liability is provided, up to the tribunal and the tower. Motivation can be done in different ways. But the fact that our contractor can break the contract and refuse is original. And again, if the part is 100℅ contracted, this is one thing. What if it's mixed? Here is a conscript driver in a conditional tank. You can't have it on your own. It turns out that the unit's combat readiness has decreased. Two years ago I was in the same unit. When the instructor found out that we were equal in rank, only I, unlike him, also received education on this topic, he said go sign the contract. They'll take it right away. Not a single unit is fully staffed. Now, as I guess, they are at war. Managed to be completed or not - the question. Here is the contract army. Something we did wrong
          1. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 25 November 2022 16: 32
            +4
            From September until the end of the NWO, the contract cannot be broken. This applies to both officers and military personnel outside the NWO zone. It is possible only for health, age and in connection with the direction to places of deprivation of liberty by a court decision.
            1. Nikolay310
              Nikolay310 26 November 2022 01: 49
              -3
              as the DonRF wrote with a competent lawyer, it’s not difficult to get five hundred even now
            2. dementor873
              dementor873 27 November 2022 03: 29
              0
              What's the point? It's like Chubais was not touched for 30 years, as soon as he resigned and went over the hill, they immediately opened cases. By September, the ideological ones remained, all the rest cut themselves out.
        2. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 25 November 2022 11: 12
          +1
          Quote: vitvit123
          and conscripts first fought in the Chechen company, and in the second they were already diluted with contracts, and the contracts went to make money with less risk of dying than now in Ukraine
          about contractors in Chechnya, I will cite the memoirs of "widely known in narrow circles" Sergey Maslenitsa, who went through both hi
          In connection with this, I was interested in how many Muscovite contract soldiers fought in the same company.
          It must be said that our "army" as of 1994 year was a pitiful sight. There were no contract soldiers in my platoon then, and there wasn’t a platoon as such either - you wouldn’t call 12 ragged young men a platoon if you so desire. At that time, I had two Muscovites of interest to you, and three others from the near Moscow region (Balashikha, Elektrostal). During the January battles for Grozny, the combined detachment of our regiment suffered great losses, as a result I ordered a battalion for some time, replacing the fallen battalion commander. We were then a little more than two hundred snouts, and the national composition was, of course, wider than in the platoon — there were Evenks, Ossetians, Cheremis, Tatars with Bashkirs, and Mordovians, and even the only Jew famous for the whole regiment. And somewhere in the spring of 95, the first contractors went. More precisely, this: "contract". 80 percent of them - stupid drunk shit and passengers who leaned back from the zone, there were few normal guys. But there were. And among them are the first “foreigners” - Russians from the Baltic States, Moldova, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan. In order to sign a contract with the Ministry of Defense, these guys, naturally, needed to get Russian citizenship. Of course, there were not many of them - two or three people per company, but the very fact of such assistance was well known, and the attitude towards the “Varangians” was even somewhat more spiritual than that of their own.
          We were able to prepare more thoroughly for the "second Chechen", contract soldiers were already fundamentally different. The selection was very thorough, and we also have a very specific one. For example, having built the newly arrived "partisans", I cut my wrist in front of the line, then sewed it up in front of everyone, and then gave the command to repeat. Those who were able to perform this exercise went to the next stage, where they were waited by new mockeries and “pod”. In 1999, among those who passed all the tests and was enrolled in my company, there were three “Belarusians”, but there were not a single Muscovite. But not because they did not exist at all, but because the principles of the formation of subdivisions changed, and the commanders sought to create cohesive teams consisting of "countrymen." As a result, all Muscovites were hanging out in another company, and there were quite a lot of them. And I had mostly guys from the Urals.
          1. vitvit123
            vitvit123 25 November 2022 12: 55
            0
            Sorry, I did not understand what I should conclude from your answer?
            1. Stirbjorn
              Stirbjorn 25 November 2022 15: 19
              0
              Quote: vitvit123
              Sorry, I did not understand what I should conclude from your answer?

              Contract soldiers fought in both Chechen, in the first they took everyone in a row. The Chechens, according to the stories of those who fought, did not take them prisoner, unlike conscripts. For they were marked in looting with all the consequences
              1. vitvit123
                vitvit123 25 November 2022 16: 33
                0
                Well, I will not do casuistry, because. I don't see the point..
          2. odisey3000
            odisey3000 26 November 2022 18: 13
            +2
            I would like to know by chance that he is not a patient of a psycho hospital, where he cut his hand before the formation and then sewed it up on the parade ground. What kind of part is this and why was he not determined to be treated. Are you writing all sorts of garbage and nonsense of crazy people on a clear moonlit night. And so for information, the first contract soldiers appeared in the armed forces of the Russian Federation in 1993, I agree that people were different in one thing, but this was also a new thing for our armed forces.
        3. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 26 November 2022 05: 28
          +3
          Well, the Ukrainians also have a contract army
          belay
          And how many waves of mobilization have already been there?
          1. vitvit123
            vitvit123 26 November 2022 07: 14
            0
            What are you up to? Let me remind you that we are talking about motivation ..
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 26 November 2022 07: 21
              +4
              In addition to the fact that there are many volunteers in Ukraine, except perhaps Londonets-on-Thames smile protect. The rest are driven into the army, and often very harshly. One of them told in London that the volunteers ran out somewhere in May.
              1. vitvit123
                vitvit123 26 November 2022 09: 06
                0
                What the toivs are right about, but ... yes, many are driven away and they may be poorly motivated, but I got the impression that Ukraine still retained part of the army, some go abroad, they train and are also partially motivated, especially with them great successes at the front, this is highly motivating in any way, they have strong propaganda - the ideology has been around for about 20 years, here even those who were very indifferent still imbued with the idea .. in our army there were a lot of mediocrity who served for the benefits of state-va, now they have collected mobiks .., yes, half of them were not at all interested in what and how, every day going to a private trader to work .. we, in Russia, do not have any ideology of state-va at all, there is only an ideology to make money , one to live on, and the other to grow the bank account ... well, in general, there are a lot of nuances ..
                1. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter 26 November 2022 13: 40
                  0
                  part travels abroad, train
                  I tend to think that the soldiers who have been fighting since 2014 can themselves train the Spaniards with the Poles.
                  they have great success at the front
                  Surround Novosibirsk? Since February, the BBC has been constantly showing the crushing victorious troops of the Ukrainian empire, and then even the locals began to ask questions - why have they been winning for half a year, and still not winning? They took advantage of the miscalculations of the General Staff of the Russian Federation (the main thing is that no one believed in such selfless support for NATO dill) and the first is the unified grouping of RTR and NATO satellites at their disposal.
                  in Russia, there is no state ideology at all
                  I can say in all seriousness that the ideology of Ukrainians is a European freebie. They firmly believe that they will be accepted into the EU and NATO and their standard of living will be raised to the level of EU leaders. That's better?
                  1. vitvit123
                    vitvit123 26 November 2022 14: 16
                    0
                    Well, it’s not you who starts to interfere with the vinaigrette .. for example: you begin to explain the reasons for the offensive (RTR, NATO intelligence, etc.) .... I didn’t say anything about this, that’s another topic ..
                    What does Novosibirsk have to do with it? Actually, what a stupidity! Before Novosibirsk, even Hitler didn’t plan much ... there’s no need to apply the successes of Ukraine, this retreat from Kyiv, the flight from Kharkov, the departure from Kherson! .. if you want to pretend that these are trifles in raising motivation, then - goodbye, it makes no sense " serve dinner..
                    Maybe Ukraine can train foreigners (the paradox is not big), but they go abroad for training and coordination ... will you deny it?
                    Your version of the ideology just complements the motivation! Or do you not understand it?
                    And what is better? You are trying to present something of your own, but the facts remain ..
                    I’ll tell you right away for the facts, otherwise you’ll say that they don’t exist ..
                    1. Ukraine trains abroad, many units .. will you deny it?
                    2. Regarding the successes of Ukraine.. we have three retreats, etc. ... will you deny?
                    3. Motivation is also associated with the desire for the euro and everything connected with it ... will you deny it?
                    Please, only without flooding, how, for example, to explain to me about RTR NATO intelligence when it comes to something else ..
                    1. Bolt cutter
                      Bolt cutter 26 November 2022 14: 24
                      0
                      What does Novosibirsk have to do with it?
                      After 9 months of overcoming (according to their media) they should at least be there.
                      we have three retreats, etc.
                      Without total superiority in intelligence, there would simply be no retreats. Moreover, now Svidomo would be caught in caches.
                      Motivation is also related to the desire for the euro
                      A very flawed national idea, don't you think?
                      1. vitvit123
                        vitvit123 26 November 2022 14: 45
                        0
                        Do you think they should have been there! Or like you! And I and those like me think that Ukraine should have been finished a long time ago, but you see how ... this is subjective ..
                        No need to attract the reasons for the retreat of Russia, that's another question! The fact is that we are retreating a lot and the enemy is motivated by the reconquest of their territory ..
                        You consider flawed, they are not flawed ... what's the difference, it is ...
                        Well, what are we talking about?...
                      2. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 26 November 2022 14: 51
                        +1
                        Do you think they should have been there!
                        Once again, there is a clear discrepancy between the declared pro-Ukrainian propaganda - victory and offensive every day, with hundreds of helicopters / planes falling from the sky and thousands of burning tanks, and reality.
                      3. vitvit123
                        vitvit123 26 November 2022 15: 37
                        0
                        So it doesn’t match with us ... so what? The facts need to be looked at, and the facts are such that we retreated three times and the situation is still not clear, in the sense of stabilizing the front .. the enemy has both skills and desire
                      4. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 26 November 2022 15: 44
                        +1
                        we retreated three times
                        Fee for miscalculations and errors before the start of the operation. I can say for Kharkov (I read an intelligent analysis of British military pensioners) - it was a very risky operation, and the losses could have been simply impressive. But those who clearly planned the native troops did not spare much. They were lucky. And yes, without total superiority in intelligence, this operation would not have happened.
                      5. vitvit123
                        vitvit123 26 November 2022 16: 09
                        -1
                        You again call the reasons for the facts! I don’t need them, in the context of the facts themselves, I can say them no worse than you without you!
                        It's about the fact that our retreat motivates the enemy, and not why we retreat !!! I don't know how to get through to you, sorry..
                      6. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 26 November 2022 16: 17
                        0
                        our retreats motivate the enemy
                        Their death of geese near Ryazan motivates - dill is a specific enemy, so to speak. Yes, these retreats are unpleasant, but not critical failures.
                      7. vitvit123
                        vitvit123 26 November 2022 16: 22
                        -1
                        We would also be motivated by at least something, but for now we are just waiting ...
                        Here you are again leaving the point ... where did I say that these are critical failures? It is difficult to talk to you, because you constantly weave another essence...
                      8. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 26 November 2022 16: 32
                        -1
                        where I said that these are critical failures
                        Then why are you simmering?
                      9. vitvit123
                        vitvit123 26 November 2022 16: 42
                        -1
                        And what are you boiling, I'm sorry, what are you talking about?
                    2. Kaiten
                      Kaiten 26 November 2022 14: 49
                      0
                      Quote: vitvit123
                      1. Ukraine trains abroad, many units .. will you deny it?

                      This was not difficult to guess in front of the CBO, wasn't it?
                      1. vitvit123
                        vitvit123 26 November 2022 15: 38
                        0
                        It’s not at all clear why you wrote this (asked) in the context of our conversation with Boltorez about the motivation of the troops ...?
        4. RED_ICE
          RED_ICE 27 November 2022 15: 57
          0
          Ukrainians have a higher morale because they consider us occupiers.
      4. Nikolay310
        Nikolay310 26 November 2022 01: 48
        -1
        what was the idea in the Chechen wars ... or maybe terror did not come to their homes? Let me remind you that the raid on Budyonnovsk took place in the summer of 1995 ... and even then the militants showed their entire "essence" ... although there is one striking similarity between those events and the current ones - the desire to cash in on the hump of the infantry Vanya and constant trade his exploits, sweat and blood ... and it’s not a fact that under the plywood marshal and Pu this trade is in smaller quantities
        1. Kaiten
          Kaiten 26 November 2022 11: 42
          -1
          Quote: Nikolay310
          what was the idea in the Chechen wars ... or maybe terror did not come to their homes? Let me remind you that the raid on Budyonnovsk took place in the summer of 1995 ... and even then the militants showed their entire "essence" ... although there is one striking similarity between those events and the current ones - the desire to cash in on the hump of the infantry Vanya and constant trade his exploits, sweat and blood ... and it’s not a fact that under the plywood marshal and Pu this trade is in smaller quantities

          Don't rock the boat, Comrade Major is rocking.
    2. iva12936
      iva12936 25 November 2022 12: 38
      +13
      I completely agree. All Chechen wars were completed in favor of the Russian Federation, due to the fact that people who were brought up under the USSR, both officers and soldiers, were still serving in the troops, but fewer, who were brought up more or less normally. Conscripts pulled out almost both wars, contract soldiers, one name. correctly they say - a contractor is not equal to a professional. Without an ideology that the majority of society accepts, nothing good will happen in critical situations. Nurtured the consumer society since 1993
  4. samarin1969
    samarin1969 25 November 2022 06: 23
    +37
    A heavy picture was painted by Staver and Skomorokhov. Perhaps 500x is really that much. In addition to the front line, there is no reliable information about what is happening in the NWO zone. A lot of unexpected and incomprehensible erupts in the media from the first day of the "operation".
    Separate (!) Politicians talk about the Victory over the "existential" enemy ... High words and lack of deeds. There is no "single combat camp": the pipes are pumping, the "concerts" are having fun, the borders are changing, the borders are open, the grain is floating away, the repatriation of capital continues. Who in this absurd situation can the people thrown to the front perceive themselves to be?.. The country is having fun and pumping money.
    If there is no martial law in the likeness of the events of 1941. defeat is inevitable.
    1. sgrabik
      sgrabik 25 November 2022 07: 17
      +17
      And what else do you want, the market, however, only all this lack of ideas and spinelessness led to the creation of an amorphous consumer society, the cult of which is loot, entertainment and personal success, and the fact is that that society itself is not to blame for this, this flawed liberal ideology was imposed on him from above 30 years ago, and all this time it has been constantly cultivated, eradicating the last remnants of those qualities that were still present in people in Soviet times.
      1. samarin1969
        samarin1969 25 November 2022 07: 57
        +9
        Quote: sgrabik
        And what else do you want, the market, however, only all this lack of ideas and spinelessness led to the creation of an amorphous consumer society, the cult of which is loot, entertainment and personal success, and the fact is that that society itself is not to blame for this, this flawed liberal ideology was imposed on him from above 30 years ago, and all this time it has been constantly cultivated, eradicating the last remnants of those qualities that were still present in people in Soviet times.


        Most VO experts are sure that only socialism can solve all problems. There is no point in arguing. ... But in history, some non-socialist countries are excellent at solving problems and winning wars against other states. The point is still in the adequacy of leadership, and not in the formation.
        1. AUL
          AUL 25 November 2022 09: 30
          +4
          Quote: samarin1969
          The point is still in the adequacy of leadership, and not in the formation.
          Konstantin Viktorovich, I agree with you 100%! How many non-capitalist states are left in the world? North Korea, Cuba ... Who else? (China is not included in this company, although it is under the control of the CCP, but still there is full private ownership of the means of production!) And all states live. They live in different ways, someone is in poverty, someone is quite prosperous. It was at the pioneer age that I was very surprised - why is it that the working class, so strongly oppressed in capitalist countries, does not joyfully run to us, to the socialist camp? And as it turned out, the cunning bourgeois managed to build capitalism in such a way that no one was drawn to socialism. Well, of course, it was their damn propaganda that worked! laughing
          But seriously, it all depends on those who govern the state.
        2. GIS
          GIS 25 November 2022 10: 34
          0
          But in history, some non-socialist countries perfectly solve problems and win wars against other states

          which countries did it? me not for dispute, but for my development. because in my memory I don’t have such states that defeated unemployment, used their income for the benefit of their citizens and carried out an independent policy that does not depend on the wishes of other countries. China only, but also the one with the prefix socialism / communism and does not fit your comment.
          1. nickname7
            nickname7 26 November 2022 10: 57
            0
            which countries did it? me not for dispute, but for my development. since I don’t remember such states that defeated unemployment,

            Apart from antiquity and the Middle Ages, the last 200 years have seen many wars waged by the capitalists. The same Ostinda company, a commercial enterprise, successfully waged wars against states.
            From the last war in Iraq where the capitalist USA won.
        3. Vlad world
          Vlad world 25 November 2022 16: 05
          +6
          If there are a lot of people among the leadership who despise their people and at the same time the state, then you can forget about adequacy. You can search for examples yourself.
        4. Dart2027
          Dart2027 25 November 2022 18: 57
          +1
          Quote: samarin1969
          Most VO experts are sure that only socialism can solve all problems.

          Exactly. The problem is that he in their view and he in reality is far from the same thing.
        5. husband
          husband 25 November 2022 19: 13
          -5
          It's just a matter of formation. Wet memories of the USSR, with which the dreams of many are full, are just an attempt to justify oneself for failure in the capitalist economy. There are no countries with a high standard of living of people and the development of science following the socialist path in the understanding of the USSR (China copies what has been done and always catches up. Not to mention the standard of living).

          The point is that Marx wrote a good book. But he was ahead of his time. In 100-200 years, at the current pace of robotization, socialism will become an organic solution. He will come. Just like he himself comes to Scandinavia.

          And we need to take and plow. under capitalism. Not by cunning, but by intelligence. Not imitation, but hard work. Not 40 hours a week, but 60. And we will build Great Russia, to which everyone will resort.
          1. Kaiten
            Kaiten 26 November 2022 11: 45
            0
            Quote: sot
            Not 40 hours a week, but 60

            And not for a salary, but for a ration, and then, wow, we'll live.
            1. husband
              husband 26 November 2022 18: 55
              -2
              For soldering it to the USSR. Throughout the capitalist world, hated by fans of the USSR, a minimum hourly wage has been introduced. Let it be 200 rubles per hour in Great Russia for a start. Then for 40 hours - 8000 rubles, for a month 32000 rubles. But we have a shortage of labor, and if you worked 60 hours a week, you earned 48000 rubles. And for the year plus 216000 rubles. That is, in 20 years you will accumulate 10 million. This is a calculation for the salary of an unskilled worker, who will be able to accumulate capital even then. The ability and desire to plow 60 hours a week is the key to success. This is not about efficiency, of course, labor productivity should be maximized by all available means. It's about getting off the couch and the TV.
              1. Kaiten
                Kaiten 26 November 2022 20: 22
                -1
                200r is not enough to fight for at least 1500. But not to give out money, but to give out wages in workdays.
      2. Ulan.1812
        Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 12: 30
        +1
        Quote: sgrabik
        And what else do you want, the market, however, only all this lack of ideas and spinelessness led to the creation of an amorphous consumer society, the cult of which is loot, entertainment and personal success, and the fact is that that society itself is not to blame for this, this flawed liberal ideology was imposed on him from above 30 years ago, and all this time it has been constantly cultivated, eradicating the last remnants of those qualities that were still present in people in Soviet times.

        Soviet time is now scolded in every possible way. And everything comes from the top.
        A huge number of people are told that you lived in vain and professed false values.
        So far, only the Great Patriotic War is not being touched, and even then they are scolding and trying to rehabilitate Vlasov, and that Leningrad was not surrendered in vain, and so on.
        They themselves push the country into discord, and then they are surprised that there is no ideology.
        There is anti-Sovietism. And for those who are at the front, many fathers and grandfathers fought.
        How can they hear about Vlasov.
        After all, these are the red banners of Victory that were not sent to the guys from the Kremlin, they took them themselves.
    2. nickname7
      nickname7 26 November 2022 10: 40
      +2
      Maybe 500x is really that much

      Recall that a week after the start of the NWO, the network was flooded with photos and videos of burnt columns, it is possible that these materials demoralized the contractors, since there was a clear incompetence of the Kremlin, it is unpleasant to disappear due to a mistake, so they began to quit.
  5. Nikolay Malyugin
    Nikolay Malyugin 25 November 2022 07: 06
    -4
    There is evil and bitterness for the fate of these guys. Whatever they tell us, we must remember that we are fighting on foreign territory. And there are a lot of detractors out there. We went into the village, where they told the Ukrainians that they say a group of soldiers was walking. They set up an ambush. Another surprise. Each branch of the military has its own instructions. And in order to fulfill them, there are officers. Training according to these instructions usually takes place in peacetime. We have many Ukrainians in Russia who are ready to help on their land. Why they are not used is a big question.
    1. Alexander Ra
      Alexander Ra 25 November 2022 08: 39
      +7
      Quote: Nikolay Malyugin
      we must remember that we are fighting on foreign territory

      Why is it necessary to remember what has happened since 91, and not to remember what happened before?
      Ukraine has become alien from the works of our “partners”, who are extremely active and united even today. She became a stranger with our inaction, connivance, we are refuseniks (and not only in this).
      If we continue to respect the sovereignty of Ukraine – if we refuse to return and defend our own, then over time Belarus will become a stranger, and our regions will also become alienated. With our state of "swan cancer and pike", there are many who want this in Russia itself.
      In this logic, both property and the whole backlog created in the USSR are also not ours and alien for centuries.
      1. Nikolay Malyugin
        Nikolay Malyugin 25 November 2022 09: 17
        +3
        Alexander. Since 91, Ukraine has become different, and we have already become different. And both countries have not become better. What happened before the age of 91 must be forgotten. All this is like a dream, it is only reflected in Soviet films. It is not necessary to see holiness where there is none.
        1. John Smith
          John Smith 25 November 2022 10: 47
          +5
          if you forget before 91, it’s completely incomprehensible why we went there, about NATO we don’t need our main ally, the NATO country that eats the Transcaucasus, and we don’t need about the Nazis, they are in Japan and Korea and Spain, why fight them in Ukraine if possible in japan?
          there is no answer, there are memory boards for Krasnov and Mannheim and calls from state channels erects monuments to the Vlasovites, why do you propose to die? for the monument to Vlasov?
          1. nickname7
            nickname7 26 November 2022 11: 33
            0
            I don't understand why we went there

            If you do not have enough intelligence to study the issue, then no one can explain it to you. But I’ll try in Ukraine, with the participation and financing of the State Department, gradually over 30 years, extremists (Svidomo, or Bandera) were found and brought to power as Svidomo when there were a lot of them, the state ideology of “Svidomism” was introduced, which is a threat to the Russian Federation.
            The term has not yet settled " svidomizm" It consists of a cult of hatred and resentment towards the Russian Federation. Lists of grievances are carefully compiled at the "Institute of National Memory". All these grievances are false, such as the Holodomor, or there is a crooked fence, slush, then the Muscovites are to blame, and since they believe they were offended, they need to be avenged. The cult also uses the attributes of Nazi Germany - swastikas, torchlight processions, zigzag, Nazi greetings.
            Svidomism is a cult of martyrs of offended avengers who want to take revenge by destroying the Russian Federation, this is a terrible ideology of extremist fanatics like Wackhabites. Fanaticism gives motivation and strength.
            I repeat the purpose of Svidomo is the destruction of the Russian Federation in its current state.
            The Kremlin launched a preemptive strike on Banderstat for security purposes, however, due to the partial disintegration of the peacetime army, the strike turned out to be weak.


            why fight them in ukraine if possible in japan?


            Japan is far away, and near the border, the Nazis with a strong army are unacceptable.
          2. alekseykabanets
            alekseykabanets 27 November 2022 12: 25
            +1
            Quote from John Smith
            what do you propose to die for? for the monument to Vlasov?

            This is how you answered this question in the recently filmed "masterpiece" about Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya! For a rye bun and a tram.)))))
        2. Alexander Ra
          Alexander Ra 25 November 2022 11: 41
          -2
          Quote: Nikolay Malyugin
          we have already become different. And both countries have not become better. What happened before 91 must be forgotten. All this is like a dream, it is only reflected in Soviet films. It is not necessary to see holiness where there is none.

          How can you know and use the word "holiness" if you think that it did not exist in the past? Do you think that in the history of Russia, Russians there is nothing holy-bright? This is the position of great ukrov, there is nothing constructive to stand on.
          Shukshin: "We knew how to live ... don't give it all away for a sniff of tobacco."
          1. Nikolay Malyugin
            Nikolay Malyugin 25 November 2022 13: 08
            +3
            Alexander. I consider only the people to be holy in our country. That's what it's worth to go for everything. And the rest of the high words should not frighten the crows.
            1. Hypertension
              Hypertension 25 November 2022 13: 28
              +3
              Quote: Nikolay Malyugin
              I consider only the people to be holy in our country.

              Holy people? Are these many representatives of which, foaming at the mouth, furiously wish death to peaceful Ukrainians, believing that they are all Nazis and Bandera there? Is our government "holy" too? After all - "every nation deserves its own government." It's this "holy people" goes to vote for EdRo and Putin. True, they used to say: "Let Putin sit on the throne as long as he likes, as long as there is no war." Even though there is no war. There is only SVO. Do not deceive the GDP.
              By and large, talking about the people as a kind of integrity is wrong, but a significant part of the people is a product of negative selection and brainwashing, thereby not allowing the people as a whole to claim any kind of "holiness".
              1. Nikolay Malyugin
                Nikolay Malyugin 25 November 2022 17: 00
                -3
                Andrew. Not respecting your people means not respecting where they participate. And this is the army and the navy. And what he produces for us. Only a holy nation can endure what has fallen upon it. And Talkov's dream, to return to the country of fools, is a stupid dream. We will not have another people.
                1. Hypertension
                  Hypertension 25 November 2022 18: 58
                  +6
                  Quote: Nikolai Malyugin
                  Only a holy nation can endure what has fallen upon it.

                  What fell off? For every nation on Earth in one or another period of history, something, yes, "fell down." Does this mean that all nations are "saints"? Tired of these speeches about being chosen by God, special "spirituality" and passion-bearing. They always begin before the people want to take advantage of all sorts of crooks.
                  1. runway-1
                    runway-1 25 November 2022 20: 01
                    +1
                    Good point, it's really not that simple...
                  2. Nikolay Malyugin
                    Nikolay Malyugin 25 November 2022 20: 09
                    -4
                    Andrew. This is all invented by politicians. But where does the people have to do with it? He lived his life the way he lives.
              2. nickname7
                nickname7 26 November 2022 11: 43
                -2
                These are many representatives of which, foaming at the mouth, furiously wish death to peaceful Ukrainians,

                This is a lie, no one wishes death to peaceful Ukrainians.

                that they are all Nazis and Bandera?

                Bandera is not all there, but Bandera are real and they seized power, which means they need to be knocked out of there. This is reminiscent of the Middle Ages when they fought for the throne, but when it is conquered, everything that was controlled by the enemy becomes yours.
                Bandera ideology should be banned.
                1. Hypertension
                  Hypertension 26 November 2022 11: 56
                  +2
                  Quote: nickname7
                  This is a lie, no one wishes death to peaceful Ukrainians.

                  This is your lie. They want and how. Go to patriotic Z-publics and look at the comments. Women of 40-50 years old are especially trying. Just some shrews, not people ...
                  Quote: nickname7
                  This is reminiscent of the Middle Ages when they fought for the throne, but when it was won

                  What do you mean "conquered"? Isn't Russia liberating "its territory"?
                  Quote: nickname7
                  Bandera ideology should be banned.

                  What about instead? Oligarchic ideology of the Russian Federation? With decorative elements of the USSR, RI, Ancient Rus'?
                  1. nickname7
                    nickname7 26 November 2022 12: 21
                    -2
                    This is your lie. They want and how. Go to patriotic Z-publics and look at the comments. Women of 40-50 years old are especially trying. Just some shrews, not people

                    This CIPSO is spreading, although within the framework of the NWO, the level of escalation will grow, alas, these are the costs of war. Let the conscience hurt those Ukrainians who allowed Bandera to come to power.
                    What do you mean "conquered"? Isn't Russia liberating "its territory"?

                    Anything can be called
                    geopolitical- this is to bring the former territories of the Russian Empire, such as back under the power of the Kremlin.
                    Conceptually NWO is like the Lancasters and Yorkies fought for the throne (power) of their father, and not on the ground, and today they are fighting for the throne of Kyiv, unlike, for example, the situation in the north. America, where the colonists seized exactly the land, and the natives were destroyed. If Ukraine becomes part of the regions and federal districts, then this is not a war for land, but a war for the throne.
                    pragmatically
                    Ukraine was given sovereignty as much as they wanted, but the elite sold out and is used against the Russian Federation, which means they are not worthy of sovereignty.
                    Here is an authentic British throne for which many fought.



                    What about instead? Oligarchic ideology of the Russian Federation?

                    And why not now the ideology is consumption, better than the cult of hatred of Bandera. But of course the Kremlin needs to work on this.
                    1. Hypertension
                      Hypertension 26 November 2022 13: 25
                      +1
                      Quote: nickname7
                      This CIPSO distributes

                      Not everything is CIPSO that sows hatred. Enough and rabid Russians. I personally know a couple of them.
                      Quote: nickname7
                      Conceptually, NWO is how Lancasters and Yorks fought for the throne

                      This looks like the truth. But only in terms of the fact that the Lancasters and Yorkies will kill each other, and in the end, the Tudors will be the beneficiary of this operation.
                      Quote: nickname7
                      Ukraine was given sovereignty as much as they wanted, but the elite sold out and is used against the Russian Federation

                      Well, yes. It's not like the Russian elite is honest and uncorrupt...
                      Quote: nickname7
                      But of course the Kremlin needs to work on this.

                      The Kremlin should first put things in order in Russia, and only then covet the former lands.
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Hagakure
              Hagakure 25 November 2022 14: 16
              +1
              Holy people? We are up to our nostrils in the blood of our children - two abortions per child. I will keep silent about theft and so on.
        3. Ulan.1812
          Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 12: 39
          +4
          Quote: Nikolai Malyugin
          Alexander. Since 91, Ukraine has become different, and we have already become different. And both countries have not become better. What happened before the age of 91 must be forgotten. All this is like a dream, it is only reflected in Soviet films. It is not necessary to see holiness where there is none.

          Forget? Should I forget my father, a front-line soldier? Forget everything that has been done before? All who did it, built it, protected it?
          Are you out of your mind?
          Oh, it's a pity you can't swear, I would tell you.
          Do you want to raise mankurts, Ivanovs who do not remember kinship? Already grown in Ukraine.
          He who forgets the past has no future.
          So the question arises, are you not an enemy with such advice.
      2. Nikolay Malyugin
        Nikolay Malyugin 25 November 2022 20: 13
        -2
        Alexander. You are hooked on the phrase "foreign territory." And you consider it yours. Then calmly walk all over the Ukrainian land. Let's see what happens.
      3. nickname7
        nickname7 26 November 2022 10: 44
        0
        alien and Belarus

        Belarus is already almost a stranger there, they study the ancient history of the Polotsk principality.
    2. vitvit123
      vitvit123 25 November 2022 10: 11
      +12
      I’m afraid to say this, but perhaps most of the officers are bad officers .. there were a lot of officers and contract soldiers in the army, and even now they remain, mediocrity, lazy people and stupid people who wanted to receive all the benefits from the state and do nothing .. well, in principle, what a society, such an army! The war put everything in its place...
  6. Li17
    Li17 25 November 2022 07: 10
    +21
    The author also wrote tactfully. There is no that great country, so there is no Great Red Army! No matter how they threw slippers in the direction of the CPSU, it was precisely the destruction of this structure that turned out sideways to us. Indeed, in fact, we still waged former wars due to the inertia of our heritage, and now the heritage has ended .... And there will be no strong army until there is a strong state! And its strength will be primarily in our former ideology, when the salt of the earth was precisely the workers, and not a gang of swindlers who sang along, and the authorities were not private!
    1. perm18
      perm18 25 November 2022 08: 16
      -18
      And where does the CPSU and the USSR, both under the CPSU and in the USSR, in 1941, under that ideology, surrendered to the Germans by armies. and it was not ideology that saved, but Order 227 and executions. And as for scammers and supposedly honest authorities, both were then. and then they stole with might and main
      1. User_neydobniu
        User_neydobniu 25 November 2022 09: 48
        -2
        it was not ideology that saved, but order 227 and executions

        Without idiocy, the executions were in 1917, those who shot and called for this did not save, then they rolled from the country like a sausage
        1. perm18
          perm18 25 November 2022 14: 53
          +1
          Trotsky created an army by executions. as well as Rome created an army with executions
          1. Vlad world
            Vlad world 25 November 2022 16: 08
            0
            Every tenth during the retreat. And no nails. They are silent about it.
      2. Li17
        Li17 25 November 2022 14: 40
        +1
        Quote: perm18
        And where does the CPSU and the USSR, both under the CPSU and in the USSR, in 1941, under that ideology, surrendered to the Germans by armies. and it was not ideology that saved, but order 227 and executions

        Especially in Ukraine and the Baltic states, not only did they give up, they also committed atrocities! And we won this war! And by the way, in the Charter of the USSR Armed Forces it was clearly indicated what captivity is! This is a shame and a crime!
        1. Rosemary
          Rosemary 25 November 2022 15: 31
          +1
          Quote: lithium17
          And by the way, in the Charter of the USSR Armed Forces it was clearly indicated what captivity is! This is a shame and a crime!

          It was so. So many years have passed, I still remember - Article 3 of the Charter of the internal service of the USSR Armed Forces: "Nothing, including the threat of death, should force a soldier of the Armed Forces of the USSR to surrender. Treason to the Motherland is the gravest crime against the Soviet people"
          1. Above_name
            Above_name 26 November 2022 09: 47
            0
            And now they are talking about the motivation for fulfilling the Military Oath.
      3. Ulan.1812
        Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 12: 46
        +3
        Quote: perm18
        And where does the CPSU and the USSR, both under the CPSU and in the USSR, in 1941, under that ideology, surrendered to the Germans by armies. and it was not ideology that saved, but Order 227 and executions. And as for scammers and supposedly honest authorities, both were then. and then they stole with might and main

        Near Moscow they won without an order 227. and fought near Leningrad, Smolensk, Odessa, Sevastopol.
        Are you talking about them?
        The order played its role, but it is illiterate to reduce everything to it.
    2. Ulan.1812
      Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 12: 41
      +1
      Quote: lithium17
      The author also wrote tactfully. There is no that great country, so there is no Great Red Army! No matter how they threw slippers in the direction of the CPSU, it was precisely the destruction of this structure that turned out sideways to us. Indeed, in fact, we still waged former wars due to the inertia of our heritage, and now the heritage has ended .... And there will be no strong army until there is a strong state! And its strength will be primarily in our former ideology, when the salt of the earth was precisely the workers, and not a gang of swindlers who sang along, and the authorities were not private!

      And then some call to forget everything that happened before the 91st. Probably zippers.
  7. alexey alexeyev_2
    alexey alexeyev_2 25 November 2022 07: 24
    +22
    A painful impression. And what about the Guarantor .. Why is there no appeal to the people. Well, speak out, turn to the people .. convey the simple thought "the country is in danger." While this pop trash is having fun at the front, the army is choking with blood. Officials are starting to grumble. They are refusing to pay the families of the dead. Along the way, we will only start fighting when the money runs out.
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 25 November 2022 08: 22
      +23
      .And what about the Guarantor .. Why is there no appeal to the people. Well, speak up, turn to the people ..
      Why do you still believe him?
      1. alexey alexeyev_2
        alexey alexeyev_2 25 November 2022 08: 53
        -20
        You propose to believe in the .navalny sect?
        1. User_neydobniu
          User_neydobniu 25 November 2022 09: 48
          +10
          You propose to believe in the .navalny sect?

          And it's not all one structure?
        2. Gardamir
          Gardamir 25 November 2022 09: 51
          +12
          You have a rotten choice. Tell me what your guarantor did for Russia? Please do not remember the 90s, they are not over.
          1. perm18
            perm18 25 November 2022 14: 50
            -6
            What have you done for the country? let's start with this. and in general the guarantor is not a magician. He cannot do everything once and for all. Well, there is an answer to your question, for example, a stable salary and not as it was for several months without pay. maternity capital. in the village, the father-in-law got gas and an excellent health center
            1. Gardamir
              Gardamir 25 November 2022 16: 59
              +2
              What have you done for the country?
              I have never voted for Putin.
              guarantor is not a magician
              But he likes to judge others.
              After 2014, many people's incomes dropped. and after covidization of the entire country, many sank sharply.
        3. AdAstra
          AdAstra 25 November 2022 19: 10
          +1
          Is there no other choice? """
      2. Boris55
        Boris55 25 November 2022 08: 55
        -17
        Quote: Gardamir
        Why do you still believe him?

        And who do you believe, the State Department? laughing
        1. Gardamir
          Gardamir 25 November 2022 09: 55
          +18
          Well, yes, it’s the State Department that has adopted an increase in the retirement age, the people have been covid, now they don’t bother with explanations either. One smile, when Russian soldiers were dying, and he grinned "we have not yet appeared" ....
          1. perm18
            perm18 25 November 2022 14: 52
            -11
            As for raising the retirement age, all claims against the CPSU are that they created such a distributive system of pensions when working people support pensioners
          2. runway-1
            runway-1 25 November 2022 20: 10
            +6
            You see: it turns out that the CPSU is to blame for raising the retirement age and for such pensions! And before that, she did not interfere with some people to promise the preservation of this very age and a noticeable increase in pensions after its increase ...
            Marvelous are your deeds, Lord!
      3. German
        German 25 November 2022 18: 49
        -2
        Because, brother, there is no one else to trust ...
    2. Boris55
      Boris55 25 November 2022 08: 54
      -17
      Quote: Aleksey Alekseev_2
      Why is there no appeal to the people.

      Is he supposed to do this every morning?
      Read the "Address of the President of the Russian Federation" dated September 21, 2022:

      http://www.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/69390
      1. alexey alexeyev_2
        alexey alexeyev_2 25 November 2022 12: 06
        -2
        Well, what kind of appeal is this to the people .. I knew all this even before his appeal .. from every iron they blew in my ears Until this sluggish bloody farce called “svo” is kicked around the Kremlin and it will continue.
    3. Mikhail Sidorov
      Mikhail Sidorov 25 November 2022 09: 25
      -16
      Yesterday I watched Nightingale.

      As I can see, the keyboard did not hit. it's a pity laughing
    4. Ulan.1812
      Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 12: 49
      +2
      Quote: alexey alexeyev_2
      A painful impression. And what about the Guarantor .. Why is there no appeal to the people. Well, speak out, turn to the people .. convey the simple thought "the country is in danger." While this pop trash is having fun at the front, the army is choking with blood. Officials are starting to grumble. They are refusing to pay the families of the dead. Along the way, we will only start fighting when the money runs out.

      Probably because a hundred people have nothing to say to him.
      Then you have to say about your beloved that you also screwed up and made mistakes.
      But this man has pride the size of Everest.
      1. alexey alexeyev_2
        alexey alexeyev_2 26 November 2022 12: 56
        +1
        Well, in my opinion, at a meeting with mothers, he admitted that at the age of 14 he screwed up. It was necessary to immediately accept them as part of Russia. We are all strong in hindsight. It seems that I didn’t mix anything up?
        1. Ulan.1812
          Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 13: 31
          +1
          Quote: alexey alexeyev_2
          Well, in my opinion, at a meeting with mothers, he admitted that at the age of 14 he screwed up. It was necessary to immediately accept them as part of Russia. We are all strong in hindsight. It seems that I didn’t mix anything up?

          Actually, this is just one of the mistakes. Although probably the main one. Although it was probably not so obvious back then.
          Only mistakes were made until the 14th year.
  8. Alex66
    Alex66 25 November 2022 07: 34
    +13
    Under capitalism, of course, a contract army, sharpened to solve internal problems, is preferable, because the people's army can refuse to press its citizens, the authorities understand this and are afraid of a large people's army.
    1. Svale
      Svale 25 November 2022 09: 00
      -17
      Give an example? where does the contract army press its citizens?
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 25 November 2022 09: 15
        -14
        Quote from Swale
        Give an example? where does the contract army press its citizens?

        IN USA, his citizens seem to be there laughing
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 25 November 2022 10: 36
      +10
      Quote: Alex66
      Under capitalism, of course, a contract army is preferable, sharpened to solve internal problems, because the people may refuse to press their citizens

      Mwa ha ha ...


      Saigon? Hue? No, Detroit. smile
      The National Guardsmen and paratroopers crushed their citizens.
      And the US Army at the same time distinguished itself in the desegregation of the South. Then the federal army stood up against local police officers and even the National Guard, enforcing the law on joint training of whites and blacks.
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 25 November 2022 16: 41
        -1
        The National Guardsmen carried out the decision to desegregate in a disciplined manner. The subordination of the state guards to the governors should not be misleading. They are part of the US National Guard, which is an organized reserve of the US Armed Forces.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 25 November 2022 17: 38
          +4
          Quote: Sergej1972
          The National Guardsmen carried out the decision to desegregate in a disciplined manner.

          Nope. In 1957, in Little Rock, the state National Guard, by order of the governor, surrounded the local school and forcibly prevented the passage of black students.
          President Icke experienced a deep sense of surprise at this performance by the state authorities, as he enacted the Insurrection Act, deployed white units of the 101st Airborne Division to the city, and then took the National Guard from the state of Arkansas and resubordinated it to federal authority.
          1. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 25 November 2022 18: 19
            -1
            So he could temporarily reassign the National Guard of the state to himself in advance, he had the right to do so. And it would not be necessary to introduce paratroopers.
  9. Cycle boss
    Cycle boss 25 November 2022 07: 41
    -6
    In general, I think it's true. Only numbers are taken from the ceiling. The fact is that 500 is full, but in my opinion the author added 200 and 300 there, and somewhere he added from the bottom of his heart ..
  10. kor1vet1974
    kor1vet1974 25 November 2022 08: 11
    +12
    as soon as this incomprehensible SVO began.
    Oh how! On February 24, it was understandable to everyone, but what about denazification, demilitarization, but we won’t overthrow Zelensky. Or is it “Do you want decommunization? they explained, even at the VO, that he "doesn't get it for nothing", they officially said this is a gesture of goodwill. An incomprehensible retreat from Izyum and an even more strange surrender of Kherson, as it turned out, he also "didn't get it", NWO became incomprehensible. According to the authors, there is not enough ideology. What? Is there a choice? Oh, yes, the market .. there are many ideologies on the market. Or "the same, but without wings." What ideology do you propose?
  11. perm18
    perm18 25 November 2022 08: 13
    +7
    read in the VO cart. that the guys were sitting in the second line. with the task of fighting the DRG but did not put up no combat guards, no observers. relaxed. settled in the house and the Ukrainians covered them. but then everything is clear. intimidated promised captivity and why the heck DRG so many prisoners. Well .
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 25 November 2022 10: 48
      +9
      Quote: perm18
      read in the VO cart. that the guys were sitting in the second line. with the task of fighting the DRG, but they did not put up no combat guards, no observers. relaxed. settled in the house and the Ukrainians covered them.

      Everything is like a quarter of a century ago: we stood at the checkpoint, relaxed, scored on the charter (what are you, commander, it’s still quiet, everyone’s here) - and lost their heads.
      1. RED_ICE
        RED_ICE 27 November 2022 15: 51
        0
        Story 15 block post (( 38 people just disappeared
    2. Skif84
      Skif84 25 November 2022 22: 55
      0
      They promised captivity, everyone decided to surrender, but one decided to play the pioneer of the hero, as a result, the machine gunner opened fire in response. In any army, a group attack on a soldier with a weapon is a valid reason for opening fire to kill, which the machine gunner demonstrated.
  12. Aleprok
    Aleprok 25 November 2022 08: 27
    +12
    everything is said correctly, there is nothing to add ... The motherland is sacred, but when the authorities themselves do not care about you at all, then the desire to protect it somehow does not appear ... fat cats in power have been skinning the people for many years, they are us and they would have sold everyone a long time ago, but they can’t yet, they are waiting for the moment ... so let them chip in for their own defense ... a simple man will go to war for his family when he really presses
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 25 November 2022 08: 43
      -17
      Quote from Aleprok
      Motherland is sacred, but when power ...

      It was under this slogan: "We love the Motherland, but we hate the authorities," the Nazis formed Vlasov regiments of all stripes from captured Red Army soldiers. Are you a Vlasovite?
      1. Aleprok
        Aleprok 25 November 2022 09: 25
        +12
        I am not a Vlasovite, but your comparison is incorrect - in the USSR there was an idea of ​​​​building a just society, now what is the idea?
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 25 November 2022 09: 33
          -24
          Quote from Aleprok
          what's the idea now?

          Read my posts below.

          Putin at the Valdai Forum offered the World (and us) the idea of ​​building a just civilization: http://www.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/69695
          1. iury.vorgul
            iury.vorgul 25 November 2022 09: 54
            +15
            He will build a fair civilization on those 9% of utility bills that we will be additionally charged from December 1. And why not with an additional tax on their friends Rotenberg, Sechin and Miller. Well, on Usmanov and Gref at the same time.
          2. Gardamir
            Gardamir 25 November 2022 09: 59
            +16
            Who prevented him from building something in 22 years? He built a society of oligarchs and corrupt officials.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 25 November 2022 10: 31
              -14
              Quote: iury.vorgul
              He will build a fair civilization on those 9% for utility bills

              It's convenient when one for all and go to Calvary...
              I already wrote about the clans, the Yeltsin clan "Family", has not gone anywhere ...
              https://topwar.ru/205244-tri-voprosa-k-prezidentu.html#comment-id-13091229

              Quote: Gardamir
              Who prevented him from building something in 22 years?

              It makes no sense to glue wallpaper in a crumbling house
              It is senseless to call on hungry people for exploits.
              It is pointless to create wealth if there are no doors in the house.

              Everything has its time. Need details?

              1. Ulan.1812
                Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 13: 00
                +1
                Quote: Boris55
                Quote: iury.vorgul
                He will build a fair civilization on those 9% for utility bills

                It's convenient when one for all and go to Calvary...
                I already wrote about the clans, the Yeltsin clan "Family", has not gone anywhere ...
                https://topwar.ru/205244-tri-voprosa-k-prezidentu.html#comment-id-13091229

                Quote: Gardamir
                Who prevented him from building something in 22 years?

                It makes no sense to glue wallpaper in a crumbling house
                It is senseless to call on hungry people for exploits.
                It is pointless to create wealth if there are no doors in the house.

                Everything has its time. Need details?


                Ha! And why then was he elected and given such powers? Just to decorate?
                Yes... answers. Before the country, before the citizens of the country. This is his position. Otherwise, there was nothing to take.
                No one denies his merits, but the fact that much has not been done what should have been, is also a fact.
                And this also applies to the army. He arranged people, including in the Moscow Region and the General Staff.
          3. Adrey
            Adrey 25 November 2022 12: 15
            +12
            Quote: Boris55
            Putin at the Valdai Forum offered the World (and us) the idea of ​​building a just civilization

            With a single country, it somehow didn’t work out very well. Now it is clear why, the scale is not the same. You have to think bigger. Now let's start building a civilization.
          4. German
            German 25 November 2022 19: 10
            +5
            He spoke about the fair relations of States. And here we have a question about ideology, first of all, in our own state: about the relationship between the state and the people.
            When some have to go and die, while others can do business with enemies...
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  13. Boris55
    Boris55 25 November 2022 08: 35
    -7
    Quote: R. Skomorokhov, A. Staver
    we end up with an army that does not want to fight

    The ratio of the dead is 1: 7-8 in our favor - is this how we do not know how to fight?
    And what do you think should be the ratio and in whose favor?

    Quote: R. Skomorokhov, A. Staver
    Yes, all because there is no idea.

    How not? Have we banned all parties, and even parliamentary ones? When? belay

    Today, the United Russia party, which won the Duma elections, is implementing the ideas of its party through the adoption of laws - the exploitation of man by man. There are no parties without ideologies!
    1. Svale
      Svale 25 November 2022 09: 02
      0
      You can clarify exactly what "ideas", a couple of examples
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 25 November 2022 09: 07
        -14
        Quote from Swale
        You can clarify exactly what "ideas", a couple of examples

        EP, leader Medvedev - the ideology of the exploitation of man-man.
        Communist Party leader Zyuganov-Marxist ideology.
        LDPR, leader Slutsky - liberal-democratic ideology.
        SR, leader Mironov - social democratic ideology.
        etc..
        1. Svale
          Svale 25 November 2022 10: 29
          +4
          Quote: Boris55
          Quote from Swale
          You can clarify exactly what "ideas", a couple of examples

          EP, leader Medvedev - the ideology of the exploitation of man-man.
          Communist Party leader Zyuganov-Marxist ideology.
          LDPR, leader Slutsky - liberal-democratic ideology.
          SR, leader Mironov - social democratic ideology.
          etc..


          Ah, I understand. This is such humor
        2. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 25 November 2022 16: 44
          +3
          The LDPR has never been essentially a liberal democratic party. Zhirinovsky also spoke about this. The name of the party, given to it at the beginning, has been preserved as a historical one.
    2. Mikhail Sidorov
      Mikhail Sidorov 25 November 2022 11: 06
      0
      The ratio of the dead is 1: 7-8 in our favor - is this how we do not know how to fight?

      Yes, they will soon be victorious. laughing wassat
      PS Today I'm ahead of you... lol by cons.
    3. RostislavPushkarevVladimirovich
      RostislavPushkarevVladimirovich 25 November 2022 13: 13
      +3
      The ratio of the dead is 1: 7-8 in our favor - is this how we do not know how to fight?
      And what do you think should be the ratio and in whose favor?
      Another thing is important, how many territories were captured, liberated and held, as well as how many people in these territories were attracted to one side or another. This requires motivation (People's idea) and the power of the armies (Provided by ALL with the necessary tools for military operations). According to your logic (1:7-8, etc.), you can generally destroy everyone with the help of (nuclear weapons) and the result will be.
      EP, leader Medvedev - the ideology of the exploitation of man-man.
      Communist Party leader Zyuganov-Marxist ideology.
      LDPR, leader Slutsky - liberal-democratic ideology.
      SR, leader Mironov - social democratic ideology.
      All these parties are united by one party, as they have already put it correctly, it is called (We eat Russia) and the idea corresponds to the name smile I am not trying to impose and convince you that it is necessary to change the government and the leader of Russia, the consequences at this stage will be very deplorable. It just hurts me as a Russian person who has been living in Baku for 37 years to watch the suffering of his compatriots, and I intuitively understand that if Russia loses at this stage, it will be bad for all Russians who live in Russia, as well as outside of Russia. But the problems SHOULD be noticed and found, and most importantly, SOLVE them in time and COMPETENTLY, WITH DEED.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 26 November 2022 10: 05
        +1
        Quote: Rostislav Pushkarev Vladimirovich
        All these parties are united by one party

        All these parties operate within the same concept - the Biblical one. No other parties that go beyond this concept in their ideology are registered, and those that threaten its existence are destroyed in the bud.

        The concept needs to be changed. Putin proposed to replace the currently dominant biblical concept of enslavement with the concept of justice for the whole world. Changes at the global level will invariably lead to changes in the foreign and domestic policies of states.

        PS

    4. German
      German 25 November 2022 19: 13
      +5
      Boris Leontyevich, this is how the question arises: if we inflict losses 1:7 when occupying positions (the ratio was announced about the battles near Kherson), why should we leave such positions ?! Or is inflicting losses not our goal?
      We also don’t want to overthrow the government and Ze ...
      So what do we want, what are we fighting for?
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 26 November 2022 10: 08
        -3
        Quote: German
        why should we leave such positions?!

        If both banks of the Dnieper were flooded, our military group would be completely cut off from supplies. Why we ended up there is not a question for me.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  14. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 25 November 2022 08: 42
    +3
    From the very beginning of the note it is already clear who the authors are. Political work continues. This, by the way, is not scoffing, otherwise Roman recently deleted my comment, where I called him a political worker. Political work is needed, even if it officially does not exist. It is the political worker who must explain to the fighter the motivation for his actions, if he does not understand it. One thing is not clear - why do the authors believe that our entire unit surrendered to three Sumerians? Is it just because there are only three of them in the frame?
    1. Roman Skomorokhov
      25 November 2022 08: 56
      +4
      Quote: Aviator_
      Roman recently deleted my comment where I called him a political worker.


      In theory, you should be embarrassed that the comment was deleted by you.

      1. Des
        Des 25 November 2022 10: 00
        +1
        without any of that).
        Quote: Roman Skomorokhov
        In theory, you should be embarrassed that the comment was deleted by you.
        From your message, where is it clear that Aviator_ (Sergey) deleted his post himself? Purely technical. Or do you have other options.
    2. Mikhail Sidorov
      Mikhail Sidorov 25 November 2022 09: 27
      +3
      One thing is not clear - why the authors believe that our entire unit surrendered to three Sumerians
      honestly same question.
  15. north 2
    north 2 25 November 2022 08: 50
    -4
    It is even impossible to compare the battles in the Second World War with the actual civil war called the NWO against the collective Vlasovism, which the West has now reactivated from the ideology of the unfinished Bandera-Vlasovites in the Second World War, this cannot even be compared. So to draw analogies between the soldiers of the Red Army who surrendered in the battles in the Second World War and the current contract soldiers who ran away from the contract and surrendered soldiers whom the heirs of Vlasov-Bandera shot, such analogies are simply criminal! What, these surrendered had all the ammunition used up? And where are the weapons of the rest, because one of them had it in his hands and he opened fire. I don’t believe that, just like at the beginning of the Second World War, the soldiers of the Red Army and the militia fighters, and now this SVO has one machine gun or one machine gun for ten.
    Let me collect the minuses, but I admit that the words of Captain Zheglov addressed to Petyuna Solovyov in an ambush at Verka Modistka are suitable for those who broke the contract, as well as those who threw down their weapons and surrendered, - that you are not consciousness, you lost your conscience when Fox attacked you he pointed the gun and didn’t remember about his fallen comrades, but about money, and he remembered about a cow with a boar ... Only now, instead of a cow and a boar, it’s not enough in the tavern, and envy that the neighbor has been washing the new BMW for the second week already.
    1. Ulan.1812
      Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 13: 08
      +1
      Quote: North 2
      It is even impossible to compare the battles in the Second World War with the actual civil war called the NWO against the collective Vlasovism, which the West has now reactivated from the ideology of the unfinished Bandera-Vlasovites in the Second World War, this cannot even be compared. So to draw analogies between the soldiers of the Red Army who surrendered in the battles in the Second World War and the current contract soldiers who ran away from the contract and surrendered soldiers whom the heirs of Vlasov-Bandera shot, such analogies are simply criminal! What, these surrendered had all the ammunition used up? And where are the weapons of the rest, because one of them had it in his hands and he opened fire. I don’t believe that, just like at the beginning of the Second World War, the soldiers of the Red Army and the militia fighters, and now this SVO has one machine gun or one machine gun for ten.
      Let me collect the minuses, but I admit that the words of Captain Zheglov addressed to Petyuna Solovyov in an ambush at Verka Modistka are suitable for those who broke the contract, as well as those who threw down their weapons and surrendered, - that you are not consciousness, you lost your conscience when Fox attacked you he pointed the gun and didn’t remember about his fallen comrades, but about money, and he remembered about a cow with a boar ... Only now, instead of a cow and a boar, it’s not enough in the tavern, and envy that the neighbor has been washing the new BMW for the second week already.

      I put a minus for repeating the liberal lie that at the beginning of the war the Red Army had one weapon for ten.
      My father volunteered in October. There were enough weapons.
      By the way, the Germans had the entire war, the main weapon was the Mauser rifle.
  16. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 25 November 2022 09: 30
    -1
    Why a person should go to war, for what or whom is this war


    A person has no motivation to fight, but now the Ukrainians are like that, but on the contrary, they have motivation. Therefore, three captured eleven, but one did not want to surrender. Arithmetic is a stubborn thing.
    1. storm
      storm 26 November 2022 00: 45
      0
      Therefore, three captured eleven, but one did not want to surrender.

      Or maybe only one had a weapon, and the rest of the eleven had no choice but to lie face down ...
      Who will now understand this situation.

      The cousin of my grandfather Fedor, who died near Vyazma in October 42, also Fedor, told how he was captured in the winter of 41 near Moscow.
      We went on the attack, stumbled upon machine guns and lay down, it was winter, an hour later they began to freeze, and the Germans did not allow us to raise our heads, the commander was not there, either they killed him or fled.
      The Germans still froze ours, and then they began to shout Ivan surrender! Those who were alive began to get up, those who decided to cheat and did not get up, those who were lying on the ground were shot dead.
      Then there was a prisoner of war camp, then he ended up in Germany, survived because before the war he was a good carpenter and he was assigned to one burgher to work in a carpentry workshop.
      the German was strict, for faults immediately in the face, but fair and did not offend in vain, he fed normally, before the arrival of ours in the 45th, he transferred all the prisoners back to the concentration camp.
      Their own (NKVD) mocked and beaten more than the Germans, who "broke" and signed papers that they surrendered to the Germans voluntarily went to the camps to cut down forests for 10 years.
      Grandfather Fyodor did not sign the papers and returned home in the fall of the 45th.
      How can he be condemned, and there were millions of them who were captured not of their own free will, but by coincidence, wounded or shell-shocked, those who were surrounded by commanders to save their skins ....
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 26 November 2022 11: 52
        0
        Quote: assault
        How can he be condemned, and there were millions of them who were captured not of their own free will

        Only God can judge.
        1. Kaiten
          Kaiten 26 November 2022 12: 03
          +1
          Quote: tihonmarine
          Quote: assault
          How can he be condemned, and there were millions of them who were captured not of their own free will

          Only God can judge.

          Terrible things are happening in Estonia too - a Russian has been deprived of a residence permit. What a terrible life.
          https://rus.delfi.lv/news/daily/abroad/v-estoniyu-ne-pustili-rossiyanina-kotoryj-prozhil-tam-pochti-60-let-ego-vnzh-annulirovali-pryamo-na-granice.d?id=54973470
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 26 November 2022 17: 34
            0
            Quote: Kaiten
            How scary to live.

            When we stayed in Estonia, we were ready for this.
  17. Dudin Artyom
    Dudin Artyom 25 November 2022 09: 30
    -5
    Whoever wants to build our army on a scientific basis and devoted to Russia can get acquainted with what kind of situation and for what reason reigns in relation to our scientific community to this very NWO, according to an article by the Moscow geographer Shuper V. A. "The scientific community between confusion and reactivity" (Management of science: theory and practice. 2022. Vol. 4. No. 3.): https://www.science-practice.ru/index.php/science/article/view /256/255

    Some benign, in my opinion, attempt to point out a way out of the situation described by my respected V. A. Shuper was somehow described at one meeting of the St. Petersburg spontaneous scientific seminar "Philosophical Thought of Naturalists": https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=GwuKUgWzRz8 (In short, this way out is to transfer our science (like all education) to a classical philosophical basis, as in pre-Soviet times they were based mainly on the religion of revelation, and in Soviet times - on an indirect presentation, apparently, only one, not the most perfect part of classical philosophy (French materialism) in the form of the so-called Marxist-Leninist philosophy).
    1. Dudin Artyom
      Dudin Artyom 25 November 2022 09: 41
      -5
      Or rather, at the meeting of the seminar, perhaps, there is no proper holistic description (I don’t remember by heart), but, in my opinion, there is some mention of the essence of this exit.

      There is also the publication of the text of the report of one of the participants of the seminar, Dr. Philosophy. n., prof. Department of the History of Philosophy of the Institute of Philosophy of St. Petersburg State University A. N. Muravyov "On the world-historical basis and significance of modern events" (the speaker assured me orally that the report was actually read at the conference indicated in the annotation to the report (it was only online) and that the text of the report presented correctly on the website): https://umozrenie.com/?p=4088 This report presents an attempt to look at the current situation of the NWO of Russia in world history with a classical philosophical view and indicate a benign way out of this situation both for our country separately and for humanity as a whole. Again, we are talking about the saving role in our time, when everything taken on faith tends to go into oblivion, only classical philosophy.
  18. Gvardeetz77
    Gvardeetz77 25 November 2022 10: 04
    +5
    Why is that? Why a person should go to war, for what or whom is this war, what are the goals, why are there so many incomprehensible moves and decisions - until there are clear answers to these questions, and “demilitarization and denazification” are not going for a clear answer now. And therefore, there is nowhere to take a proper understanding of what is happening, respectively, there will be only a war for survival.

    That's probably the key in my understanding. When communicating with former fellow officers, from different branches of the military, some of my former soldiers (with whom I keep in touch), or just acquaintances who once served a military term, not one is eager to confess and lay his head on the altar for some unknown reason, although there are already mobilized comrades, but mostly against their will. Absolutely incomprehensible goals, tasks and ways to achieve them, simplified: "go there, I don't know where, bring (do) something, I don't know what."
    And it’s not even that for opponents this war is liberation, but for us it’s not much, the history of wars is full of examples when an army that entered the territory of another country, staffed from the reserve as well, had the motivation and desire to fight, because .there were clear, non-abstract final goals and leadership that did not seek to "agree".
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. buslaif
    buslaif 25 November 2022 10: 07
    0
    Quote: samarin1969
    The point is still in the adequacy of leadership, and not in the formation.

    Both are important. The country in the current formation in terms of mobilization was completely unprepared for war. Well, the leadership, having an army that was not ready to conduct hostilities, nevertheless decided to start the NWO. In 1941, we were also not quite ready for war, but that system and that leadership were able to rebuild the country in a short time on a military footing and mobilize the economy. In the late 80s, we had the choice to follow the Chinese version, but we, represented by our leadership, chose what we have now.
  21. Alexander_Dneprovsky
    Alexander_Dneprovsky 25 November 2022 10: 11
    -3
    In Makiivka, a video appeared where there was a battle at the site of the execution. And there were far from 3 people from the Armed Forces of Ukraine, there was even equipment. Also in the TG channels there was information that they were mobilized from Serpukhov. There is even a video where the mobilized who left their positions complain about the command, while as a result of leaving the positions, some of the mobilized were captured.
    1. Ulan.1812
      Ulan.1812 26 November 2022 13: 16
      0
      Quote: Alexander_Dneprovsky
      In Makiivka, a video appeared where there was a battle at the site of the execution. And there were far from 3 people from the Armed Forces of Ukraine, there was even equipment. Also in the TG channels there was information that they were mobilized from Serpukhov. There is even a video where the mobilized who left their positions complain about the command, while as a result of leaving the positions, some of the mobilized were captured.

      There were no Serpukhovs there. There was a video message allegedly from the mobilized Serpukhovites, who did not reach the front line, but were abandoned by the battalion commander when they were supposed to be coordinated at the DPR training ground.
      In VK on the page "Serpukhov" there were two days of Terki.
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. Postcode
    Postcode 25 November 2022 10: 18
    +1
    Bredsky nonsense ..... the group that entered Ukraine since February 24 totaled a little more than 100 people, about 000 - 70 were concentrated on the border line, as a second echelon and reserves, were also gradually introduced into the database zone. In parallel with the introduction of reserves, the transfer of additional forces and means from all over the country and military bases from abroad began.
    The author does not correctly interpret information about the strength of the RF Armed Forces. Ground forces are taking part in the ground part of the operation (their total number in the Russian Federation as of February 24 is only about 300 people), the Airborne Forces - about 000 people, and the marines - about 45 people. Let me note right away that this number includes conscripts, women military personnel, specialists from logistic support units and units, personnel and command personnel of military educational institutions, training centers, units and training grounds ...
    To designate the mobilized as victims of cowardice is very wrong. Initially, everyone who understands the essence of these issues realized that it was impossible to solve the task with the available forces and means, just physically, the repeated requests to start mobilization by the political leadership of the country were not accepted. There are losses, they stupidly need to be made up for with something .... If we have not abandoned the plan of the offensive, we need to create superiority, at least in the directions of the main attacks, in the directions of concentration of the main efforts. at the same time, in no case, without exposing the flanks, without creating gaps in the line of defense / combat contact.
    Returning to the video in the village: whoever saw the entire video from beginning to end and knows how to comprehend what he saw, he understands that there was no battle there, the fighters were taken "warm", they stupidly slept without setting up guards or surveillance. The VSUshniks quietly, calmly crept up to the barn / house, woke them up with screams (in fact, they could just throw grenades and finish off the remaining wounded and shell-shocked), they took, most likely, to show off .... those who did not wake up from sleep began come out one by one and give up.
    1. ada
      ada 26 November 2022 03: 09
      -1
      Quote from Cap
      Brad bullshit...

      I agree, everything is correct, I support.
      I cannot but mention the hotly discussed mobilization. Despite the constant emphasis on the NWO as a war, this is of course not the case, while this is its pale shadow - the stage of preparation for war. It is obvious that we and the enemy at this stage have to act within some framework and limits that constrain actions or limit the scale. I believe that they were declared at the summit meeting of the GDP and Bidon and are constantly shaken by the government apparatus, it is likely that this process is subject to the influence of outside forces. Also, I am sure that mobilization does not fit into these frameworks and limits, and accordingly it was not carried out. The conduct of partial mobilization is, in fact, limited mainly by one main priority mobmeasure - the conscription of citizens for military service in a limited number, moreover - for a contract. This is even less than one percent of the total volume of general mobilization measures. I believe that during the preparations and the mobilization itself, the enemy had trumps of influence on the situation with its deterioration at such a pace that we would not have had time, including those obvious from the situation with the Republic of Belarus, no matter how they puffed up there alone. It is important to understand here that despite the incomplete mastery of military planning by the coalition forces of NATO and their satellites like "Defender Europ", in view of its obvious adjustments, they were quite capable of provoking actions by a part of the coalition without involving either the United States or the countries of the Western European buffer , but we got out of this situation with the withdrawal of troops. Bye.
      In addition, it is quite obvious that the necessary volumes of approvals in NATO earlier, before the NWO, were planned at the organization’s summit this summer in Madrid, and it is expected that the revised plans could be mastered by the coalition forces in full no earlier than the period of 2023-2025, taking into account readiness of the national Armed Forces of the Republic of Poland. This, actually lost by the coalition countries to date, is the time limit of their readiness for a large-scale conflict. I cannot but note that it is impossible for the West to implement the existing military planning in full in this theater of operations, without obtaining advantageous positions in Belarus. Based on this and taking into account the period of the likely entry into the level of readiness of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Poland for independent actions (with the completion of the formation of the main forces) in the period 2027 - 2030 (according to published materials), I can assume, omitting the readiness of Western European countries for escalation, that this and there is a new time line for the start of the war. Until this period, the main events will go. Then there will be something to compare with both mobilization and war.
  24. Evrepid
    Evrepid 25 November 2022 10: 18
    -11
    the article isn't really about anything...
    heading provocation... who said that there were only 3 Ukrainians? don't talk nonsense...
    Those. according to the article, it turns out that without shooting the combat kit at the enemy, they simply surrendered to the first Ukrainian that caught their eye? what nonsense!
  25. Alexander_Dneprovsky
    Alexander_Dneprovsky 25 November 2022 10: 21
    +3
    There can't be 300 thousand "500x". In total, the RF Armed Forces could put up about 200 thousand. What I know is the percentage of "500x" from 10 to 60%, depending on the unit. Another question is what to mobilize and urgently plug the gaps had to be 500, and untrained mobilized.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 25 November 2022 16: 48
      +4
      At the beginning of mobilization, breaking the contract was prohibited until the end of the SVO
  26. Edik
    Edik 25 November 2022 10: 25
    -3
    After reading the comments, it is clear that many of the commentators could also be in the place of these soldiers. It is correct that I will die for these bourgeois.
  27. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 25 November 2022 10: 45
    0
    A very relevant article on a topical topic! For from the first reading of the message about the surrender of "Russian soldiers", the thought stuck in my mind: "But what about ...,, the Russians do not surrender!,,?" And ... "11 (12) surrendered to three! "Only after some time it was possible to figure out that the surrendered soldiers were not entirely "Russian"! Judging by the red armbands on some, these are Lugansk or Donetsk ... given that Makeevka is part of the territory of the Donetsk region, it is highly likely that these are Donetsk "mobiles"! Considering that the mobilization was massive ... "en masse-forced", what kind of "morale and motivation" can we talk about? For the motivated have long been in the "service"!
    In general, it is harmful to read a lot ... no, not "Soviet newspapers"; but about "civilized laws of civilized warfare ..."! We are at war with the Nazis' coming out! Banderlog-beasts!
  28. Dimm400
    Dimm400 25 November 2022 10: 51
    +2
    I always read Roman's publications with interest. The author, as usual, collects all sharp corners. For which the gentlemen of the turbopatriots have long labeled him as an all-weather. However, if you do not pay attention to the real problems, taking the position of an ostrich, then they will not disappear by themselves. As for three against twelve, the example is very unfortunate. It is clear that the guys were in a trap. Perhaps they themselves are to blame. Perhaps the fault lies with the overslept guard. But they had no chance of winning. Going out into a narrow passage, they were guaranteed to fall under machine gun fire. Sitting in hiding is also not an option. They just throw grenades. The VSU officers did not do this right away, only, apparently, for a spectacular shot.
    Now put yourself in their place. Which is better: a heroic but useless death, or a hope for life, albeit through captivity. Everyone answers this question in their own way.
  29. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 25 November 2022 10: 57
    0
    Quote: Aerodrome
    it is worth noting that the Ukrainian army is quite strongly motivated, unlike ours ...

    How many Ukrainians fled to other countries after the start of the NWO? Several times more than Russians after the start of mobilization.
  30. KSVK
    KSVK 25 November 2022 11: 51
    +8
    Somewhat surprised by the co-authorship of Mr. Staver.
    And I was also pleased with the practical absence of jingoistic comments. Well, except, of course, for some "Olga" residents. It is gratifying to see that television has not replaced the head of most commentators.
    Threat And some "Olginsky" would be nice to "pull up" the Russian language, and not scribble comments. wink
    Quote: Boris55

    Pointless...
    Pointless....
    Pointless....

  31. 15210
    15210 25 November 2022 12: 02
    +13
    I can’t blame the 500s for the fact that they don’t want to go to die when Peskov’s sly face smiles on TV, and the supreme commander pushes about the prospects for the development of artificial intelligence at the next symposium.
  32. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 25 November 2022 12: 25
    +11
    For many years, people who understood what was happening were shouting - the best qualities of the Russian people are being destroyed, everything that made the Russian man a winner is crumbling. The authorities did not answer, only increased the pressure on the Russian people. People warned that the time would come to fight, and there would be no one to fight.
    Well? How is it? Carefully brought up by the current government, the generation of successors to the cause of power immediately fled to Georgia and beyond. With a clear dependence - the more a young man corresponds to the ideal of Gref and Kudrin, the faster he runs away. Mr. Gref, Mr. Kudrin, where are the defenders of your capital and your property brought up by you? They are not on the front lines.)
    But even those who did not run away immediately, they are not ready to fight like their ancestors. And it's hard to blame them. They have been treated by the current government all their lives. Her vision of life, her ideals, her image. Here is the result. What, gentlemen, owners of factories, newspapers, steamships, do you like?
    Knowing that young people brought up purely in their ideals are not capable of fighting at all, the authorities tried to recruit people aged about 40, who were still a little illuminated by the light of the USSR. But that won't save you. Most of their lives they still lived WITH YOU. And here is the result of your work. Well, how is it?
  33. Roman_2022
    Roman_2022 25 November 2022 12: 30
    +15
    For 30 years they made a herd of sheep out of us so that they would not interfere with the division of the country. Successfully. And now everyone is surprised that we are fighting badly! Although even the word "war" was changed. The authorities must stop being afraid of a strong people! We should be proud of our origin, we should become warriors, scientists, workers, peasants! And not the cream of society - the foam from the shit!
  34. steelmaker
    steelmaker 25 November 2022 12: 39
    -6
    These shots, with the murder of our soldiers, only confirm the words: "We have no prisoners. There are traitors and cowards." I did not see shell-shocked and wounded there. And unfortunately we have thousands of such prisoners. They voluntarily dropped their weapons! They wanted to suffer, it's their choice. Such pity is not worthy. And it is still unknown what they said in captivity and whom they handed over (addresses, full name).
    1. Woodman
      Woodman 25 November 2022 12: 54
      +5
      Quote: steel maker
      And it is still unknown what they said in captivity and who they handed over

      Specifically, these "speak" are unlikely to have had time.
      Quote: steel maker
      And unfortunately we have thousands of such prisoners.

      I remember at the time of the first Chechen one, news was broadcast on all channels in the style: "the fighters of one checkpoint in full force went to the militants." This was discussed for several days, while no one saw or heard the fighters. Well, how did the media behave in those years ... Sometimes it was not even clear whether it was our media or the enemy's ... And after some time one of these fighters was released from captivity and this is approximately what he said: "at night sentries they cut it out quietly, the checkpoint was surrounded by grenade launchers, the chances were zero, and they surrendered."
      PS I didn't see the video from the drone, only some photos, so I'm not sure that there were three Khokhlukrs. And the situation could be about the same as in the example I described. The fighters, cut off from their own and left without communication, could simply wait for darkness to try to get out to their own, but they were discovered. If there were really three Khokhlukrov, then yes - there are questions. Although the three of us do not clean up the private sector.
  35. solar
    solar 25 November 2022 12: 43
    +3
    This was done not very competently, the fighter went almost to the machine gun and, most likely, was immediately killed.

    The second gross mistake - he went right behind his own, lying on the ground, in the machine gunner's line of fire. They also do not write that he killed one Ukrainian, so it is not surprising that the machine gunner fired at everything that moves.
    Perhaps it was more correct for him to simply try to hide, shooting back if necessary. And so, 13 dead, 11 of which would then probably be exchanged alive.
    1. Rosemary
      Rosemary 25 November 2022 13: 12
      +1
      Quote from solar
      The second gross mistake - he went right behind his own, lying on the ground, in the machine gunner's line of fire. They also do not write that he killed one Ukrainian, so it is not surprising that the machine gunner fired at everything that moves.
      Perhaps it was more correct for him to simply try to hide, shooting back if necessary. And so, 13 dead, 11 of which would then probably be exchanged alive.

      Exactly. Let's simulate the situation by swapping our and not our fighters in places.
      Introductory:
      Two groups of fighters, Russian (3 fighters) and Ukrainian (12 fighters), clashed in a residential area in the village. Apparently, the Russian fighters somehow worked more efficiently, and the Ukrainians faltered: leaving their weapons somewhere, they began to come out and lie down on the ground where the Russian fighters pointed them out. Under the muzzle of a PC machine gun.
      The last Ukrainian came out with a weapon and opened fire on the Russian fighters. One out of three Russian fighters was killed, and the ratio of Russian and Ukrainian fighters became 2 to 11.
      In such a situation, the Russian machine gunner decided not to risk it, because the soldiers who had come out and had not yet been searched could have both pistols and grenades, so he simply went through the queue over the heads of the lying Ukrainian soldiers.
      Question:
      Did the Russian machine gunner do the right thing in this situation, is he a war criminal and how would we ourselves behave in his place?
      1. Skif84
        Skif84 25 November 2022 23: 42
        -1
        A group attack after an agreed surrender, that's how it is interpreted.
  36. The comment was deleted.
    1. steelmaker
      steelmaker 25 November 2022 15: 57
      0
      "Motivation in our Armed Forces is practically non-existent."
      Life is a motivation, isn't it? How many videos have already been with the bullying of our prisoners. Or do you want to say that they did not know how they treat our prisoners?
      1. Dmitry Rigov
        Dmitry Rigov 25 November 2022 16: 56
        +5
        Nevertheless, prisoner exchanges are regularly held, which means there is a chance.
        1. steelmaker
          steelmaker 25 November 2022 18: 28
          -2
          "So there's a chance."
          Well, what do you call for such thoughts? Captivity, this is the betrayal of some and the cowardice of others.
          1. UAZ 452
            UAZ 452 25 November 2022 18: 36
            +6
            In order to have the right to make such statements, you yourself need to spend at least a few months at the forefront of THIS (and not some of the previous ones, because we haven’t had such a NWO since 1945) of the war.
            1. steelmaker
              steelmaker 25 November 2022 20: 27
              0
              "To be entitled to such statements,"
              Or maybe it’s about education and upbringing! Whoever has a rotten soul has rotten thoughts. Recently, there were footage where a PMC fighter shot himself in order not to be taken prisoner. It is necessary to teach and educate on the examples of our heroes. And you justify these cowards.
              1. Dmitry Rigov
                Dmitry Rigov 25 November 2022 23: 48
                +5
                blah blah blah
                The command surrenders entire cities, and meanwhile the soldiers find it shameful to surrender. If you want to live - whoever thinks a coward will not care.
        2. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 26 November 2022 19: 40
          -1
          imagine the situation that they jump out of the windows, and each of them has 3 cartridges. at least 3 windows plus a door, everyone has knives and armor. There are much more chances to survive, because elementary, if they are persuaded to surrender, then there are no grenades, no artillery or heavy equipment
  37. Radikal
    Radikal 25 November 2022 16: 28
    +5
    Three against twelve - why did this happen?

    Now there is a news broadcast on NTV, they showed a report from the meeting of the prisoners at the airport, let's say the impression is so-so. For a person who is probably unprepared in some matters, this story with the corresponding comments of the correspondent will create a certain halo of heroism around those who returned from there. At least that's how it looked on the screen. That's why, and not only it turned out - twelve against three ... . sad
  38. border
    border 25 November 2022 16: 34
    +4
    I usually don't comment on events about which far from everyone is known. But only one conclusion suggests itself: those who surrendered had no motivation to fight and die, so they decided that in this way they have significant chances not to be killed, but exchanged. In the distant 90s, I caught a sleeping sentry several times. He warned that they CAN be killed when everyone is sleeping - they did not heed. I came for a check - again the shift on duty relaxed. He inserted a magazine with blanks and fired at the ceiling. None of them even tried to jump up and disarm, they pretended that they were fast asleep and did not hear anything.
  39. ratcatcher
    ratcatcher 25 November 2022 17: 05
    +5
    Bertolt Brecht - Mother Courage and Her Children
    "Mother Courage. Poor, you see, the commander!
    Cook. Gluttonous, why bad?
    Mother Courage. Because he is bad because he needs brave soldiers. Good -
    why are they so brave. He has a good campaign plan, he will manage with anyone.
    I already know where they will start talking about all kinds of valor, there it’s rubbish.
    Cook. And I thought it was a good deal.
    Mother Courage. No, it's rubbish. Take the king or the commander there, what
    God offended. After all, he will make such a mess that without valor-heroism
    the soldier is indispensable. Here's one honor for you! Take the curmudgeon. Be stingy, little
    a soldier will recruit, and then he demands that everyone be heroes! Take it again
    muddler - his soldier must be wiser than a snake, otherwise he won’t be alive
    get out. Such and fidelity from a soldier is required extraordinary. Him just
    few. Someone else's prowess plugs all the holes! And on the good side, with the good
    the king and the commander do not need all these valor! There is no need for valor, there were
    if people were like people, if only they were not completely fools, but to ask me - though
    cowards!"
  40. Vasilyevich Pensioner
    Vasilyevich Pensioner 25 November 2022 17: 53
    -6
    The author worked on the beginning in order to attract and then immerse in his vomit dump.
  41. Double major
    Double major 25 November 2022 18: 03
    +7
    Who knows. From the chair at the computer deep in the rear, everything is seen differently, "everyone imagines himself a hero, seeing the battle from the side." But for me, a career senior officer of the USSR Armed Forces, it is preferable to die with a weapon in my hands than to be shot like this, in the back of the head. Though children and grandchildren will not be ashamed. Personal opinion, I don’t really know the circumstances of what happened, and judging by articles in the media is not correct.
    1. t200404
      t200404 25 November 2022 21: 16
      +7
      The whole point is that children and grandchildren are unlikely to find out How you died - in fact, when a person gets into a situation where a shot is fired and everything is over, believe me, his judgment changes greatly about courage
  42. UAZ 452
    UAZ 452 25 November 2022 18: 54
    +6
    Here I am amazed: for decades (since late Soviet times - for sure) the state has not trusted our people with the possession of weapons, it does not even allow them to protect their own lives, their loved ones, their property. Even officers of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation can obtain a license for rubber guns only on a general basis, and have no right to own military weapons, and he saw service weapons twice a year in the shooting test. The courts automatically carry out any self-defense, even in case of a clear danger to the life of the defender, under the article of excess, with a guaranteed landing of a "self-defender". And then all of a sudden, like little children, they are surprised - why do we have an army only in parades with biathlons? Why are the called-up citizens who have been taught that it is impossible to even defend themselves, there are specially trained employees of the competent authorities for this, do not defend their Motherland (let us remember for now the question of who attacked it and from whom it needs to be protected)? Someone in their right mind thought that if units of the RF Armed Forces paid tribute to petty criminals at the place of deployment (Yugra, and not only), then they would show themselves differently on the battlefield?
    Do you want to have a warrior people? And at the same time, several generations were engaged in "selection" endured, even forced (and many are quite satisfied with this state of affairs) to delegate concern for their own safety to state bodies?
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 26 November 2022 05: 41
      +1
      officers of the RF Armed Forces can obtain a license for a rubber gun
      In England they give a real term for peppercorns bought from huckster-Lithuanians or for a butterfly, but the troops are not bad.
      1. UAZ 452
        UAZ 452 26 November 2022 11: 54
        0
        This is true, in terms of timing, even for a hint of a weapon. But about "good troops"... I remember that only 9 months ago, few people in the world doubted the high combat effectiveness of the RF Armed Forces. Falklands? But that was already two generations ago, we also thought that we could easily "repeat" since the grandfathers did it, but alas ...
        And doesn’t the sun still set over the British Empire now, like a century ago (and a century ago, just the same, English legislation on the circulation of weapons was much more liberal, and their literature of that time describes a gentleman putting a revolver in his vest pocket before going out from home, as a matter of course)? Didn't leadership in the Anglo-Saxon world pass long ago and firmly to the USA? Perhaps not least due to the second amendment to their constitution?
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 26 November 2022 13: 44
          +1
          not in the least due to the second amendment to their constitution?
          Then the Baltic States and the Czech Republic should be firmly included in the leaders of the world in any way - the weapons legislation there is almost the same. The US has a strong economy.
          it was already two generations ago
          In Iraq, Afghanistan, they acted in every way not badly.
  43. Sedoy
    Sedoy 25 November 2022 19: 03
    0
    Twelve against three. That is, four to one.

    if this is true, then there is no point in pitying those who surrendered ...
    Where the data comes from is another matter.
    taking into account the fact that it was a DRG, the composition of which can be from 3 to 10 people, rarely up to 20 ...
    the tasks of the DRG are not to get involved in the battle, but to complete the task ...
    and their task was clearly not to take prisoners ...
    so why they got involved in the fight, it is not clear ...
    this is assuming that there was a fight ...
    it doesn't look like there was a fight - how could 12 people be in the same barn during the fight...
    was it a strongpoint type group?
    they usually consist of a branch of approximately..
    it is very similar to the fact that the Ukrainians "ran into" them and took them "warm" - and where the posts, guards, it is not clear ...
    1. t200404
      t200404 25 November 2022 21: 12
      +3
      - there is no pity for those who surrendered - This can be written either by a person who fought or excuse me yap
  44. Sedoy
    Sedoy 25 November 2022 19: 10
    +10
    He swore an oath to serve Russia... and then he took her back and fled. For your own skin is more precious

    complete mess ...
    read laws...
    there is no smell of an oath to serve Russia here ...
    svo is not a service to Russia ...
    by all laws, the implementation of any military operations outside the Russian Federation - only on a voluntary basis - and this is even in the case of peacekeeping operations ...
    and its - there is no such thing in any law at all - it is not spelled out anywhere ...
    so, anyone could refuse - and did not violate a single letter of the law and the contract ...
  45. Sedoy
    Sedoy 25 November 2022 19: 21
    +7
    And the mobilized are the victims of cowardice and meanness of the five hundredth

    oh how... :)
    the guards of the arrow quickly moved ...
    they are victims of inches, not five hundredths ...
    those vershoks that with godfathers and sidekicks started games in which sit-I-I-open it myself ...
    and when they began to bake under the asses of the chair, they urgently remembered the "saving of the fatherland" ...
    and they started to drive the people into the trenches ...
    and where are the 2 lemons of the Edrosites, how many are there in the trenches?
    why didn’t they go to save the father of the nation ...
  46. Sedoy
    Sedoy 25 November 2022 19: 24
    +3
    you just have to be patient, because such “victories” will happen the farther, the more often.

    once again, a duet of a sweet couple poured water, mixed sweet with hot...
    recommending to stay patient... :)
  47. Simfy
    Simfy 25 November 2022 19: 37
    -1
    Maybe just left without BC? ((( hopelessness ... although a couple of people had a chance to survive in hand-to-hand combat (
    1. t200404
      t200404 25 November 2022 21: 08
      +5
      I think there are no complaints about the soldiers - do you have many acquaintances who can really go to hand-to-hand combat?
      1. UAZ 452
        UAZ 452 26 November 2022 12: 00
        0
        In hand-to-hand squad and machine gun, I will put on a machine gun with a machine gunner.
        1. t200404
          t200404 26 November 2022 15: 12
          0
          I could be wrong, but now a person can go into hand-to-hand combat either under drugs or in an extreme frenzy. Without these conditions, of course, but I have only met one such in my life.
  48. stankow
    stankow 25 November 2022 19: 58
    -6
    The article is against the law. Discredits the RF Armed Forces. Definitely! Not a single bad word against war criminals, justifies. For everything else, the Russians are to blame - from the soldier to the president. Very guilty, after all, such is the "in the world" "trend".
  49. AA22Helmet
    AA22Helmet 25 November 2022 20: 08
    -4
    It is strange to hear in the comments: there is no demotivation, we are fighting on foreign soil, etc. ... It turns out that NATO pulled troops, weapons to our borders, trained the army of Ukraine, well, just out of its kindness. And Russia tried to somehow brush it off ahead of the enemy, well that is, it smoldered, smoldered under the ass, and then it became clear that it was about to begin and it turned out that it was necessary to wait until the Donbass were killed with particular cruelty, and this would have happened very quickly, and there Crimea would have been rolled out at once, as I understand it , according to the plans of couch experts, it was necessary to sit on their territory and not talk. So they sat, until the last, waiting either for frost, or for the collapse of Ukraine, reveled in the Minsk agreements, but the intelligence agencies of Russia, along with those who heard the results, it seems generally turned out to be incapacitated, by the way, not for the first time. I remember how they predicted Hussein’s war with the amers in Iraq for 3 years, in fact it turned out to be 2 months. i. And the fact that even the DPR did not know or hear anything about the most powerful fortified area under their noses and the lack of optical sights on the machine guns of the heroes of the Marines storming Mariupol without UAVs immediately inspired sad thoughts about the images of the Great Patriotic War, where the losses of the Red Army significantly exceeded the losses of the Wehrmacht, in defense, by the way. There is nothing more criminal to fight in the 21st century according to the patterns of the 19-20th centuries and fool around about some kind of victory. the soldiers are not the same, let alone ... Otherwise, we would be wow and ah. Although history always shows that if there are people like Ushakov, Suvorov, Kutuzov, Zhukov, then there is Victory !!! Otherwise, an example - the defeat of the Red Army under the leadership of Mekhlis by the Germans in the Crimea with equal forces. As, by the way, the defeat of the Western Military District in 500, which was on the defensive and had superiority in armaments and the number of troops over the advancing Nazi troops. Such a conclusion suggests itself, how would kt didn't talk about it.
  50. serivolkf1
    serivolkf1 25 November 2022 20: 56
    -3
    some kind of nonsense, which means they want or don’t want to fight ... it’s necessary, it’s necessary now, and not when they come up with some idea! I haven’t seen a single video where Chechens surrender 12 people each ... draw your own conclusions, who served in the owls / army knows why they surrendered. It’s not just that, probably, in the days of the Second World War, there were foreign detachments. We will win anyway!
    1. UAZ 452
      UAZ 452 26 November 2022 12: 02
      +1
      I have no doubt that you will win. By the way, if it's not secret, what settlement are you and your unit currently storming or defending?
      1. serivolkf1
        serivolkf1 27 November 2022 21: 34
        0
        just like you, a young and inexperienced person, on the couch ...