Military Review

Ukraine's victory on the battlefield has become unprofitable for the West

75
Ukraine's victory on the battlefield has become unprofitable for the West
Source: kipmu.ru



Too many or too few weapons?


It is no secret that the Kyiv regime is chronically short of Western weapons. An example from the latter is the 77th airmobile brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, freshly assembled near Chernigov, is forced to be content with vinaigrette from motley equipment. Here are the T-80BV, and the German Dingo, and the Turkish Kirpi, and the American Maxxpro. At least a couple of BMP-2 techies had to screw the towers from the BMD-2.

Even the named elite of the Bandera army lacks equipment, to say nothing of the infantry units. At the moment, there is no evidence of the acquisition of at least one large combat unit of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with NATO equipment of the same name. It is always a team from all over Europe, heavily flavored with American weapons.


A typical example of supplying the elite units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with military equipment. Pay attention to the BMP-2 with BMD-2 turrets. Source: Telegram

The Kyiv regime lacks even more powerful systems. The Americans transferred only 38 HIMARS systems out of several hundred stored in the storerooms of the American army. This is definitely not enough for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, they demand more.

Now in Ukraine there are quite a few fighters trained to work on these systems, which dramatically increases the effectiveness of this striking weapon. But Washington sends HIMARS a teaspoon a day. At the same time, the Americans are increasing the production of MLRS at home. On November 17, it became known about a new contract with Lockheed Martin for the annual production of 96 units instead of the previously approved 60. A similar situation with tanks. Zelensky asks for several hundred modern M1 Abrams or Leopard 2A5 vehicles (or better together) to form shock fists to break through the defense of the Russian troops.

But even here, the Kyiv negotiators are refused - the West is not ready to share heavy armored vehicles. Quite reasonable reasons have been sounded before to explain NATO's intransigence. First of all, difficulties could arise with the retraining of Ukrainian tankers. But it is already the ninth month of the special operation, and during this time it is possible to teach the operation of armored vehicles even to a person who has never seen a tank in his life.

There are a lot of training camps in Europe where nationalists are taught combat skills according to NATO standards. The 77th Airmobile Brigade, mentioned above, is formed from those trained in the UK. Over the past time, it was quite possible to train a hundred or two tankers. If not on Abrams or the second Leopard, then on the M60 and Leopard I for sure.

Indicative is the statement of US General Mark Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who advised Ukraine this winter to think about peace talks. According to the commander, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are generally not capable of pushing the Russian army back to the former borders.

There are two important points here.

Firstly, this provocative opinion was voiced not by a retired military man, but by an acting general.

Secondly, the statement actually crosses out all the efforts of the West to contain Russia in Ukraine. Everyone in a row, from Scholz to Biden, assured that they would do everything to return the lands liberated by Russia to Zelensky. And now what? Nine months to nowhere.

One of the military bosses of NATO speaks directly about the impossibility of a military solution to the conflict. The Wall Street Journal has already criticized the words of Mark Milley. According to the publication, the official point of view of the White House is that there are quite enough weapons supplied, and Kyiv should make the decision on negotiations on its own.

We read between the lines - Ukraine itself cannot turn the tide of events for reasons beyond NATO's control. Here lies a calculation, phenomenal in its cynicism, in whose plans a quick victory of the Kyiv regime is absolutely not in the interests of the West. This is not even the notorious realpolitik, but something more similar to fascism of the XNUMXst century. Hidden, carefully powdered, but fascism.

No need to win


The facts are unambiguous - the United States and allies do not need a blitzkrieg of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to the east. That is why the delivery of heavy weapons and aviationwhich have already been promised ten times. NATO's greed is explained by a lack of production capacity, depletion of arsenals and other excuses. Imagine Germany, which will take and give Zelensky all their Leopards.

Stay defenseless? Before whom? Russia now, with all its desire, is not up to the “denazification” of the FRG. However, the tanks are still not in Kyiv. Neither Soviet nor German. Similar история with strike aircraft. Milli, as people say, “burned the office down” with his statement, in fact announcing to the whole world about the true intentions of the West. But Ukraine has been built as an anti-Russian project for too long to allow the nationalists to win so quickly.

The calculation is simple - it is necessary that Russia deplete its resources on special operations for as long as possible. It is important for Biden and his colleagues to project their power not on the military-political leadership, but on ordinary citizens. According to the calculations of the West, the standard of living due to the ongoing conflict will fall, and with it the dissatisfaction with the Kremlin. To this will be added losses among contractors and mobilized, which will have a cumulative effect.

Obviously, the strategy came to the mind of foreign leaders not on the morning of February 24, but much later. Initially, plans for the rapid overthrow of power in Russia were a priority. The West seriously counted on the effectiveness of their information war and the imminent overthrow of the existing order. It is no coincidence that Biden made a reservation about the removal of Vladimir Putin. Now the rhetoric has softened, and with it the idea has become much more subtle and bloodthirsty.

It is trite to repeat this, but the more Russians kill Ukrainians, and Ukrainians kill Russians, the greater the profit in the end for the Anglo-Saxons. There are a lot of fears in this strategy as well. First of all, in front of Russian nuclear weapons. Frankly speaking, this is the only thing the West is ready to reckon with now. And it will be considered for a very long time, until the nuclear shield is taken away from us.

According to decision-makers in Europe and the United States, the success of the Armed Forces of Ukraine could provoke the Kremlin to launch preemptive nuclear strikes with tactical weapons. In this case, no one in NATO is going to fight with Russia, so it’s better to hold back the Banderaites rushing into battle. Wait until a protest matures in Russia, which will lead to a change of power, and then the Americans will contribute to the election of the right candidate.

Here we will remember about humanitarian aid from the United States, the notorious "Biden's legs" and other delights of democracy in the Western sense of the term. What is happening now in Iran seems like a great option for Russia to some of the Washington hawks. Naturally, the appearance in the Kremlin of a leader obedient to the White House pursues only one goal - to deprive the country of the status of a nuclear power.

As soon as this happens, all interest in the big northern country will disappear. Most likely, even the role of the world gas station in Russia does not shine. In Washington's rosy plans, power in Iran will collapse by that time and oil supplies from the "free" country will cover the deficit.


Source: discover24.ru

The financial model of this strategy is interesting. More precisely, the latest Kyiv estimates of the cost of restoring the destroyed infrastructure. As of mid-November, this is about $100 billion. Russia's gold and foreign exchange reserves, which the West froze after February 24, can cover these losses three times. The fact that the funds will be returned to the owners, they say less and less. There is every reason to believe that the amount will forever remain overseas. And it will go to compensate for the losses of both the Kyiv regime and Western sponsors.

Now the West is definitely not playing at a loss - 300 billion stolen dollars are warming the pocket. As soon as the losses of the Zelensky regime from the special operation overcome the coveted amount, the strategy will have to be modified. It is quite possible that the leadership will be forced into peace negotiations, or the long-awaited tanks and fighters will be sent. The West has much more freedom of maneuver in this situation than Russia.

The idea of ​​slowly warming up the Ukrainian conflict looks harmonious and logical, but not without strategic flaws. There is a considerable group of analysts in the West who rightly believe that the coup d'état in Russia is deadly for the whole world. Now this group, apparently, is not much listened to. Back in the 90s, they warned that neglect of our country could cost dearly.

After all, Russia has a nuclear capability capable of destroying the planet several times over. Who will get it as a result of the forceful overthrow of power? You can shake the ayatollah's power in Iran as much as you like and not be afraid that several nuclear warheads will fall on New York. With Russia, this will not work.

The model chosen by the West requires too fine control of the situation and is not capable of promptly responding to many unforeseen "black swans". It is impossible to keep the thin line between the impossibility of attacking Ukraine and liberating Russia for a long time. Simply because no one has ever been able to do this before in history. Always won either one or the other.

The West is risking its intervention to derail the conflict into an uncontrollable escalation.
Author:
75 comments
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  1. Buyan
    Buyan 24 November 2022 11: 03
    -4
    Not needed and good, ours will thin out the Nazis hi
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 24 November 2022 11: 25
      +5
      Quote from Buyan
      Not needed and good, ours will thin out the Nazis

      So no one talked about the victory of the Nazis, the West needs a war with Russia and Ukraine is suitable for this with its free "cannon fodder".
      And no one in the West cares if Ukraine wins or loses. Europe will have its own if Ukraine loses more than from victory. The countries of Europe will receive territories, and after the end of the war, the sanctions will step aside, and Russian gas and oil products, grain and raw materials will go.
      This is what Europe is beginning to comprehend, and to move away from American views on the Russian-Ukrainian conflict.
      1. Trapp1st
        Trapp1st 24 November 2022 11: 28
        +2
        Ukraine is suitable for this with its free "cannon fodder".
        Paid for everything, Nabiulina and co. paid off and left for tea.
      2. Eule
        Eule 24 November 2022 17: 07
        0
        Quote: tihonmarine
        the west needs war

        I have a much worse hypothesis - the West needs a war, no matter with whom, but as a powerful and empathetic news occasion in order to dampen people's emotional perception of harm from "covid restrictions". It is clear that the rational perception of this harm will not go anywhere - neither for the one who from the owner of the three stores has become a laborer, nor for anyone else, but the impressions will fade, and it will be easier for officials to stay in power, they will be less required to answer for " covid restrictions."
        If my version is correct, then the NWO will last a year and a half, until September 2023, whether in this form or in the form of a full-scale European war.
    2. credo
      credo 24 November 2022 11: 27
      +5
      Quote from Buyan
      Not needed and good, ours will thin out the Nazis hi

      Having pulled quotes and statements from various Western magazines and from persons of different ranks, the Author bypassed the tactical and strategic plan of the Anglo-Saxons, and this is the most important thing.

      This is the case with fascist Germany and the socialist USSR, which were supported by the Anglo-Saxons to varying degrees on the eve and during WWII, but they strategically weakened both of them and profited from the war to the fullest.

      And now the same case, only with the use of modern weapons.
  2. BMP-2
    BMP-2 24 November 2022 11: 12
    +3
    And what, now the West will help Russia?)
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 24 November 2022 11: 43
      +2
      Quote: BMP-2
      And what, now the West will help Russia?

      But did the West ever help Russia, even during the Second World War.
    2. kor1vet1974
      kor1vet1974 24 November 2022 11: 44
      0
      And what, now the West will help Russia?)
      Apparently yes.. laughing
  3. Seraphimamur
    Seraphimamur 24 November 2022 11: 16
    +5
    I agree with the author. The goal of the entire war in Ukraine is to destroy Russia from the inside through a disgruntled population, with the subsequent promotion of the extinction of this population for the uncontrolled and complete capture and mastery of natural resources.
    1. kor1vet1974
      kor1vet1974 24 November 2022 11: 42
      +7
      for the uncontrolled and complete capture and mastery of natural resources.
      And what natural resources do the people of Russia own? These are the people of Russia, raising the price of gasoline and gas for themselves? Foreign directors sit in Gazprom, Rosneft, mermaids .. Oh, yes, their people put them there.
    2. sadam2
      sadam2 24 November 2022 14: 23
      +3
      After 15 months, the re-election of the sun-faced. I see no reason yet for a turning point at the front. There was a hope that Europe would freeze in winter, but nothing happened. Right now, the hope is to defeat the ukroinfrastructure, but the European Union has recognized us as terrorists. In a month, anti-geranium missiles will reach ...
      I agree, the longer this whole disgrace drags on, the stronger the throne under Vova staggers
      1. N3onMiami
        N3onMiami 25 November 2022 07: 00
        +3
        "the stronger the throne under Vova staggers"

        What prevents them from once again draw the desired percentage in the elections?
        They will feed the citizens the next fairy tales from TV, they will gobble them up, and these will continue to sit on the throne.
    3. filibuster
      filibuster 24 November 2022 16: 17
      +8
      What a stupidity or intentional propaganda spreading "America wants to seize our resources." Then it is easier to seize Qatar or Saudi Arabia, but even this turns out to be no easier and more profitable to simply buy on the market, developing the processing and production of high-tech goods.
      No one will extract resources cheaper than the natives, any welder / excavator from Germany will break such a price tag for work in our North that it is cheaper to give production and control to the local population. In Africa, children mine rare earth metals, everything is controlled by local criminal or state companies, and it's cheaper than landing an expeditionary force.
      And yes, the resources of our people have long ceased to belong, and in whatever capitalist Norway people get more from gas than we have in Russia.
      1. ada
        ada 24 November 2022 22: 26
        0
        Quote from: filibuster
        ... any welder/excavator from Germany will break such a price tag for work in our North, ...

        What about food and firewood? wassat
        This is of course a joke, and of course everything is seen as you show, but I have never seen confirmation of this complacency No.
        The fact that everything is mixed in the article is obvious.
    4. Shark Lover
      Shark Lover 28 November 2022 06: 16
      +1
      ......... uncontrolled and complete capture and mastery of natural resources .........
      Why??? It belonged to them anyway. These Chukhans, who own everything in our country (the word elite is inappropriate for them), they did not become at the helm due to their mental abilities, they appointed them, they appointed them through selection. I am absolutely not sure that our President, an independent, subjective person, he just became uncomfortable with this financial group, Western bankers and plays in the interests of another group, also not ours. So, it is unlikely that after the Victory we will not return to the same thing that was, only other surnames will flicker in the context of "elites". Accordingly, the new ones will put their pigs in the government, the Duma and other bodies. For this, there is a battle, a war, just the last argument. Therefore, no one wants to seize the Russian Federation and, God forbid, bring it to a nuclear conflict. The question is in Europe and China, as competitors. Ukrainians are just a territory that no one needs in this form, RF hands.
  4. kor1vet1974
    kor1vet1974 24 November 2022 11: 25
    +3
    the greater the profit in the end for the Anglo-Saxons
    One profit took place, the CIS, rested in Bose. The most important profit, the union of Russia and Ukraine will not be for a long time. This is the main thing that scares the West, it does not need a new union on the territory of the former USSR. Blorussia, Ukraine, will not take place.
  5. Trapp1st
    Trapp1st 24 November 2022 11: 27
    +1
    It is truthfully written, it is sad that we have rootless blockheads.
  6. yuriy55
    yuriy55 24 November 2022 11: 28
    +3
    The calculation is simple - it is necessary that Russia deplete its resources on special operations for as long as possible.

    So, what is next?! Will the European part of NATO risk attacking Russia when it warned about the use of nuclear weapons and the presence of new "Sarmatians" and "Vanguards"?
    The only hope is that Russia will kneel...
    What is the calculation of the Russian authorities - that is the question ... Today we cannot even say what the General Staff plans together with Putin ... One thing is clear and visible to the naked eye: in the conditions of political chatter and forecasts of political scientists, the desire to return to happy 2, to the uncontrolled export of capital and resources from Russia, unhindered opportunities to spend the stolen at your own discretion, thanks to the fans of the clubs, thanks to all the servants who are ready to fulfill any whim, for the money that actually belongs to the Russian people ...
  7. Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 24 November 2022 11: 28
    +3
    Indicative is the statement of US General Mark Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who advised Ukraine this winter to think about peace talks. According to the commander, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are generally not capable of pushing the Russian army back to the former borders.
    The author forgot to add that the general said "in the coming weeks." fellow
  8. Bodipancher
    Bodipancher 24 November 2022 11: 32
    -5
    The author writes nonsense. The notorious 300 billion dollars is not money on deposit, these are IOUs that Russia bought, in fact, issuing a loan to the Americans and EU countries. As part of the sanctions, they froze payments on their debts, essentially went into default. Therefore, it is impossible to transfer them to Ukraine or restore it three times.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 November 2022 11: 40
      +7
      Quote: Bodypuncher
      Bodipancher
      Today, 11: 32
      NEW
      0
      The author writes nonsense.

      In this case, you write nonsense
      Quote: Bodypuncher
      it's not money on deposit, it's IOUs

      And like any IOUs, they have a price in money, because the US does not refuse to pay its obligations. That is, these receipts can be sold for the same 300 billion or paid off and turned into money
      1. Bodipancher
        Bodipancher 24 November 2022 14: 01
        -6
        The debtor cannot transfer the right of claim to another person, only the creditor can do so. This is legal nonsense. Don't write nonsense.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 November 2022 17: 21
          +2
          Quote: Bodypuncher
          The debtor cannot transfer the right of claim to another person, only the creditor can do so

          Complete nonsense. A security like a bond and the like is issued to the bearer, without specifying the debtor, so that it can be sold and bought on the securities market.
          Second - the transfer of the right to claim other people's debts is a standard practice anywhere, including the Russian Federation.
          Quote: Bodypuncher
          . This is legal nonsense.

          Extremely surprised that you know the word "legal"
  9. zampolit
    zampolit 24 November 2022 11: 35
    0
    At least a couple of BMP-2 techies had to screw the towers from the BMD-2.

    The BMP-2 has a shoulder strap diameter of 30 centimeters larger than that of the BMD-2
    1. Predometrix
      Predometrix 24 November 2022 11: 55
      -3
      Quote: zampolit
      The BMP-2 has a shoulder strap diameter of 30 centimeters larger than that of the BMD-2

      Well, the photo speaks for itself, somehow it turned out.
  10. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 November 2022 11: 37
    +5
    After all, Russia has a nuclear capability capable of destroying the planet several times over.

    Alas, in reality, the United States is not enough. Drive into the Stone Age - maybe, but not completely destroy
    1. solar
      solar 24 November 2022 12: 23
      +2
      Drive into the stone age - maybe

      hardly even for that.
      "One-story America" ​​- this is what the Soviet classics noticed. They have a dispersed population, and you can't launch a nuclear missile on every farm.
    2. Negro
      Negro 24 November 2022 14: 36
      +2
      It seems like you participated in the discussions on what is enough and not enough for 1,5 thousand Russian charges. There is no question of any Stone Age, especially if it is realistic to estimate how many of them will have time to fly away.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 November 2022 17: 16
        0
        The question is that there can be significantly more of them than 1,5 thousand, if we are not talking about a reciprocal from under an unexpected attack
        1. Negro
          Negro 24 November 2022 18: 59
          +1
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          if it's not about a reciprocal from under an unexpected attack

          Reciprocal is a rather optimistic option. Just a response, if anything at all remains.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 November 2022 19: 47
            +3
            Quote: Negro
            Reciprocal is a rather optimistic option.

            no. Optimistic - this is when there is a period of tension during which we stuff our carriers of nuclear warheads to the fullest and, fully deployed, are preparing for Armageddon. That's when much more than 1,5K warheads can fly to the USA
            1. Negro
              Negro 24 November 2022 19: 50
              0
              In your alhistory, you proceed from the fact that Soviet intelligence and the Soviet foreign policy bloc are more competent than their counterparts in the damned NATO, and, accordingly, the homeland will be able to preempt the enemy in deployment.
              Forced to note that.
              1. This has never happened before in history.
              2. 2022 allows us to take a different scenario as a basis.
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 November 2022 21: 15
                +1
                Quote: Negro
                In your alhistory, you proceed from the fact that Soviet intelligence and the Soviet foreign policy bloc are more competent than their counterparts in damn NATO

                Mon cher, what perpendicular universe did you get here from? We have the USSR for more than 30 years as it rested in a Bose, if anything.
                Quote: Negro
                and, accordingly, the homeland will be able to preempt the enemy in deployment.

                In your irrepressible desire to prove (primarily, apparently, to yourself) that NATO is the best in the world, you have not even mastered the input conditions of the simulation. You didn't even realize that this is not about a nuclear conflict in general, but about how Western analysts perceive the threat of a nuclear conflict. Which are just obliged to admit the possibility that the Russian Federation in some scenario will turn out to be an aggressor and attack suddenly.
                Quote: Negro
                Forced to note that.

                And who is forcing you to carry nonsense?
                Quote: Negro
                1. This has never happened before in history.

                Wasn't there something? :))) That we were ahead of NATO in deployment? :))) Such a phrase - the Caribbean crisis, does it mean anything? Don't you know that the deployment of the USSR BR in Cuba was a little missed by the United States? :)
                Quote: Negro
                2022 allows us to take a different scenario as a basis.

                It's always welcome, take what you want. Just please speak to the point of the discussion.
                1. Negro
                  Negro 24 November 2022 21: 33
                  +1
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  We have the USSR for more than 30 years as it rested in a Bose, if anything.

                  What a nuisance.
                  And that, since then, the designated services began to work better?
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Which are just obliged to admit the possibility that the Russian Federation in some scenario will turn out to be an aggressor and attack suddenly.

                  I am forced to note that the consequence of such an assumption is precisely a full-scale preventive strike. Since so far I have not noticed this, such an assumption is apparently not considered.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

                  And who is forcing you to carry nonsense?

                  The nonsense is your prerequisites. If side A has noticeable advantages over side B (in this case, in intelligence and the accuracy of weapons, which makes it possible to deliver a preventive counterforce strike), then it would be strange to simply ignore them. Although for Russian strategic planning, perhaps the norms.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  There was nothing? :))) What did we get ahead of NATO in deployment?

                  Why only NATO? Any serious opponent. Well, except for Ukraine and Georgia.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Don't you know that the deployment of the USSR BR in Cuba was a little missed by the United States? :)

                  Don't you know that medium-range missiles near the borders of the USSR were deployed a little earlier?
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Just please speak to the point of the discussion.

                  This is not difficult. A 1500-for-1500 exchange of strikes will not lead to the Stone Age, and will not even have a noticeable effect on the US military. The losses of the US population are noticeable, but not critical, in percentage terms, significantly lower than the losses of the USSR during the Second World War. Then the complete destruction of the remnants of the population of the former Russian Federation. China does not need living Russians. The rest even more so.
                  1. User_neydobniu
                    User_neydobniu 25 November 2022 10: 27
                    0
                    China does not need living Russians

                    You already stop carrying your nonsense, drink your pills there with cola and then distort it to the star-striped
                    1. Negro
                      Negro 25 November 2022 10: 48
                      +2
                      Your feedback is very important to us.

                      For my part, I note that people who feel some sympathy for the Russian people should fiercely fight against any squeals that the Russian Federation is capable of "winning" a full-scale nuclear special military operation. Even at Solovyov's Sabbaths, one occasionally comes across humanoids who are not ready to listen to this. It is difficult to come up with an idea more harmful to the fate of the Russians.
                  2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 November 2022 18: 47
                    0
                    Quote: Negro
                    What a nuisance.
                    And that, since then, the designated services began to work better?

                    Basically, perhaps worse, but in general for everyone. But NATO has very much merged since the Cold War.
                    Quote: Negro
                    I am forced to note that the consequence of such an assumption is precisely a full-scale preventive strike.

                    Well, questions of faith are sacred to me :)))
                    organize the covert delivery and installation of an additional amount of warheads on SLBMs and ICBMs, replenish the ammunition load of stratospheric bombers and raise the level of technical readiness of SSBNs and other carriers (gradually, by the required date) - it is more than realistic to do it unnoticed by NATO. And then the United States will not succeed in any preventive strike at full strength - they are corny not ready for this at any given time.
                    Quote: Negro
                    The nonsense is your prerequisites. If side A has noticeable advantages over side B (in this case, in intelligence and the accuracy of weapons, which makes it possible to deliver a preventive counterforce strike)

                    No intelligence, neither the United States nor NATO, has the ability to at least 50% reveal the preparation of the Russian Federation for a preventive nuclear strike until it is too late. And the United States does not have any superiority in accuracy that would ensure the success of a counterforce strike. Their counterforce is possible only and exclusively if the US and NATO covertly deploy at full power and strike at the unsuspecting Russian Federation. Yes, and even then - with baaalshiy reservations.
                    Quote: Negro
                    Why only NATO? Any serious opponent. Well, except for Ukraine and Georgia.

                    Well, yes. The Wehrmacht since 1943, when the Red Army constantly preempted it in deploying forces for operations, the Kwantung Army, all this does not count. Hmmm...let me ask, who was preempted in the deployment of the United States in this case? Japan in Pearl Harbor and the Philippines?:)) Vietnam?:))) North Korea?:)
                    Which of the serious opponents was ahead of NATO in the deployment? :))))
                    And yes, you just wrote the US Navy into frivolous opponents. For off the coast of India, the Soviet Navy preempted their deployment, which became the key to Soviet-Indian friendship for many years.
                    Quote: Negro
                    Don't you know that medium-range missiles near the borders of the USSR were deployed a little earlier?

                    You already decide what you mean by deployment. For the deployment of American medium-range missiles in Turkey was not a secret, it was a well-known threat to which the USSR had to respond accordingly.
                    If you consider THIS to be an advance in deployment, then the USSR was ahead of the United States and NATO in the deployment of intercontinental ballistic missiles, the creation of thermonuclear weapons, and much more.
                    Oh yes, I almost forgot. Of course it's different :)
                    Quote: Negro
                    A 1500-for-1500 exchange of strikes will not lead to the Stone Age, and will not even have a noticeable effect on the US military.

                    If the blow is directed primarily at undermining the US economy, then there will be the most natural Stone Age, with the death of the main US industrial enterprises and scientific centers with enormous losses among the highbrows.
                    At the same time, from half to two-thirds of the US population will be able to survive, only they will be cut off from the whole world (ports - sorry, goodbye) with a complete collapse of economic ties - the remnants of agriculture and industrial production will turn out to be in certain areas - redundant and unnecessary , in others - categorically insufficient. Consequences... You just don't know what you're talking about. The USSR collapsed without a nuclear strike, which led to the rupture of industrial chains, and the consequences for the industry were completely lethal.
                    And if the strike is inflicted primarily on military facilities, then the United States will lose much more than half of the Navy and Air Force, and their main arsenals of ground forces will be eliminated.
                    Quote: Negro
                    The losses of the US population are noticeable, but not critical, in percentage terms, significantly lower than the losses of the USSR during the Second World War.

                    You've obviously revisited Marvel comics.
                    1. Negro
                      Negro 25 November 2022 20: 04
                      0
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      You've obviously watched Marvel Comics.

                      27 canonical Soviet millions is about 60 million Americans in terms of population. I don't see a way to achieve such a result given the possibilities.
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      Between half and two-thirds of the US population will be able to survive,

                      100+ lyams of the two hundredth? Lip no fool.
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      ports - sorry, goodbye

                      Where are they going to? Have you counted your vigorous loaves well in order to try to rip off ports with them?
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      You just don't understand what you are talking about. The USSR collapsed without a nuclear strike, which led to the rupture of industrial chains, and the consequences for the industry were completely lethal.

                      )))
                      The USSR collapsed, but the United States did not, I have to remind you. It is rather strange to expect late-Soviet quality of governance from the United States.
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      The United States will lose far more than half of the Navy and Air Force, and their main arsenals of ground forces will be eliminated.

                      )))
                      I have to remind you that it is the military, except for the Russian ones, who have relatively high civil defense skills and, as a rule, protected transport. The ships are even better protected. If not a direct, then a very close hit is required. A megaton explosion over the city is safe for the same Burke or Nimitz.
                      It's also funny that in your fantasies, the Russian Federation will have time to unpack even tactical nuclear weapons, and the enemy will not even have time to withdraw the fleet from their bases.
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      If you consider THIS to be an advance in deployment, then the USSR was ahead of the United States and NATO in the deployment of intercontinental ballistic missiles, the creation of thermonuclear weapons, and much more.

                      Actually, no, the USSR was not ahead of anyone in anything listed. Moreover, you are deliberately replacing the very fact of the presence of missiles in Cuba with "anticipatory deployment."

                      The whole story was nothing more than a farce on both sides. Something like the February speeches of Mr. Putin, that he would not allow anyone there to interfere in the course of the NWO.
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      Well, yes. The Wehrmacht since 1943, when the Red Army constantly preempted it in deploying forces for operations, the Kwantung Army, all this is not considered

                      Decided to take up clowning? Both the Wehrmacht and the Kwantung Army had already been deployed for 5-10 years by the beginning of the events under discussion.
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      Japan in Pearl Harbor and the Philippines?:)) Vietnam?:))) North Korea?:)
                      Which of the serious opponents was ahead of NATO in the deployment? :))))

                      Oddly enough, yes, all examples are suitable. In all cases, the United States arbitrarily and independently chose the moment of the outbreak of armed conflict. Unlike the Russian Federation, which "was forced," the United States was never forced and did what and when they wanted. In the best case for the enemy, there was tactical surprise, which was enough for several high-profile headlines.
                      Whether their deployed army was sufficiently prepared is another question. Just Vietnam was a turning point in this respect - after it, they finally began to work in earnest.
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      For off the coast of India, the Soviet Navy preempted their deployment, which became the key to Soviet-Indian friendship for many years.

                      Another clown. Stories of when and where the Americans were driven from some unexpected place are a genre of kitchen folklore.
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      No intelligence, neither the United States nor NATO, has the ability to at least 50% reveal the preparation

                      Are you sure that Joe or his caregiver will press the button at 51 percent and not at 49?
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      And the United States has no superiority in accuracy that would ensure the success of a counterforce strike.

                      American missiles are capable of hitting silo covers, piers with standing submarines, and soil complexes. The Ukrainian missiles of 50 years ago do not have such capabilities by design. Well, submarines at the piers there are much less common.
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      only and exclusively if

                      ... a decision will be made to strike without preparation, by those forces that are on duty at any moment.
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      covert delivery and installation of an additional amount of warheads on SLBMs and ICBMs, replenish the ammunition load of stratobombers and raise the level of technical readiness of SSBNs and other carriers (gradually, by the desired date)

                      With these cunning measures, you will only bring the number of warheads ready for launch to the agreed one and a half thousand. Since their presence in combat readiness at any arbitrary point in time raises considerable doubts.
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      NATO has merged very strongly since the Cold War.

                      Previously, Russia had two allies: the Yellowstone volcano and the public debt. Now, apparently, Biden and Millie.

                      Oh well.
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 November 2022 00: 07
                        0
                        Quote: Negro
                        27 canonical Soviet millions is about 60 million Americans in terms of population. I don't see a way to achieve such a result given the possibilities.

                        Have you tried cleaning your glasses? The 50 largest cities in the US are 50 million people. Evaporate a third of the strategic warheads of the Russian Federation
                        Quote: Negro
                        Where are they going to? Have you counted your vigorous loaves well in order to try to rip off ports with them?

                        Yes OK. For three dozen major US ports - more than.
                        Quote: Negro
                        The USSR collapsed, but the United States did not, I have to remind you. It is rather strange to expect late-Soviet quality of governance from the United States.

                        Managing funnels from special warheads is very difficult. It does not depend on the quality of management.
                        Quote: Negro
                        I have to remind you that it is the military, except for the Russian ones, who have relatively high civil defense skills and, as a rule, protected transport.

                        In your imagination. In reality, alas, the US Armed Forces are not ready for a full-scale nuclear war.
                        Quote: Negro
                        The ships are even better protected. If not a direct, then a very close hit is required. A megaton explosion over the city is safe for the same Burke or Nimitz.

                        You are delirious. But in fact, in places of basing, they hit precisely the harbors, and not the air.
                        Quote: Negro
                        Actually, no, the USSR was not ahead of anyone in anything listed. Moreover, you are deliberately replacing the very fact of the presence of missiles in Cuba with "anticipatory deployment."

                        No, dear man, it is you who are torturing the owl. Deployment, in fact, is the transfer of the Armed Forces from a peaceful position to a military one (or to a military one - secretly for the enemy), in readiness for an immediate strike from a position unexpected for him. And the deployment of American missiles in Europe was a problem, not because the Americans managed to do it suddenly / unexpectedly, but because we did not have the opportunity to respond in a mirror way. With the advent of the Cuban agreements, such an opportunity arose. And we, despite the complete dominance of the US Navy at sea in those years, managed to deploy missiles in Cuba, catching the Americans with their pants down.
                        This is precisely the advance in deployment, whether you like it or not.
                        Quote: Negro
                        Decided to take up clowning? Both the Wehrmacht and the Kwantung Army had already been deployed for 5-10 years by the beginning of the events under discussion.

                        Then come to terms with the fact that the US deployment of missiles in Europe does not count. You see, rockets were invented in ancient China. Therefore, according to your logic, the USA cannot get ahead of anyone there. :)
                        Your thesis that the United States has always outperformed the enemy in deployment, and the USSR / RF has always lost in it, is based on one simple distortion - you yourself determine the points of advantage, and yell: "and everything that happened afterwards was not shielded !!!" . Although to say that the Germans were ALWAYS ahead of the Red Army in deployment on the grounds that they were ahead of the Red Army in 1941 is the same as to say that the Wehrmacht defeated the Red Army on the grounds that in 1941 the Germans inflicted a number of sensitive defeats on us. But according to your "logic" since they succeeded in 1941, it means that they succeeded in 1943 and 1945.
                        Quote: Negro
                        Oddly enough, yes, all examples are suitable. In all cases, the United States arbitrarily and independently chose the moment of the outbreak of armed conflict. Unlike the Russian Federation, which "was forced," the United States was never forced and did what and when they wanted.

                        I appreciate your ability to present need as a virtue. That is, if the Russian Federation starts a war in Ukraine, then because it is forced, and if the United States loses half the fleet in Pearl Harbor, then this is because they themselves wanted to.
                        Quote: Negro
                        Another clown. Stories of when and where the Americans were driven from some unexpected place are a genre of kitchen folklore.

                        Well, yes, with the complaints of American admirals that the USSR was ahead of them in deployment. Dear man, no need to distort - they were ahead in deployment and driven away - not the same thing.
                        Quote: Negro
                        Are you sure that Joe or his caregiver will press the button at 51 percent and not at 49?

                        I'm sure Joe forgot what a button is :))) And yes, in the current reality, much smarter Americans did not press the button, not only at 49%, but at 99%, when the early warning system TWICE confirmed the massive missile Soviet nuclear attack on the USA.
                        But why do you need a boring reality? You are so comfortable in your fantasies...
                        Quote: Negro
                        American missiles are capable of hitting silo covers, piers with standing submarines, and soil complexes.

                        Again, in your inflamed imagination. In reality, the standard for the destruction of a missile silo is 2 special warheads.
                        Quote: Negro
                        ... a decision will be made to strike without preparation, by those forces that are on duty at any moment.

                        And why wasn’t they beaten when Brzezinski, in those years, President Carter’s adviser on national security, was INFORMED AND, IN RESPONSE TO THE REQUEST, CONFIRMED a massive nuclear missile strike of the USSR?
                        And he didn’t even wake up his wife - they say, if this is true, then let him die peacefully in his sleep, and if not, then why wake a person in the middle of the night?
                        Quote: Negro
                        With these cunning measures, you will only bring the number of warheads ready for launch to the agreed one and a half thousand.

                        That is, you have no idea about the real number of warheads in the USA and the Russian Federation.
                        Quote: Negro
                        Since their presence in combat readiness at any arbitrary point in time raises considerable doubts.

                        Your doubts are worthless. You have no doubt that the pre-ancient American Minutemen, who have long passed all the terms, will fly somewhere there.
                        Quote: Negro
                        Previously, Russia had two allies: the Yellowstone volcano and the public debt.

                        At least look at how the same United States fought in the same Afghanistan.
                      2. Negro
                        Negro 26 November 2022 21: 05
                        +1
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        At least look at how the same United States fought in the same Afghanistan

                        They fought brilliantly, with virtually no casualties. However, the State Department refused to do its part of the work, as a result, even a minimal result, like the Najibullah government, was not recorded. Before the Americans had time to dump, everything returned as it was before them.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Your doubts are worthless. You have no doubt that the pre-ancient American Minutemen, who have long passed all the deadlines, will fly somewhere there

                        No sane person doubts this. I see you are not one of them. How many times have the Minutemen been tested in the last 10 years? Yars? R-36M?
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        That is, you have no idea about the real number of warheads in the USA and the Russian Federation.

                        The treaty limits not only the number of warheads, but also carriers. You will quietly not be able to convert poplar monoblocks into MIRVs, at most you will put more warheads into the R-36 instead of decoys. But you will definitely fall asleep here. You can quickly increase only the number of CDs by changing the warheads of the same X-101 to SBCs - but CDs are useless in any case.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        And why didn't they beat

                        The early warning system was a buggy system, both sides knew about it. It's funny that you "forgot" the same triggers from the Soviet side.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        In reality, the standard for the destruction of a missile silo is 2 special warheads.

                        That's right - if we are talking about a minuteman or a trident. R-36 will not fall into the mine at all. But in the quoted phrase it was about Vilyuchinsk with Gadzhiyevo.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        You are so comfortable in your fantasies...

                        The Russian tradition is to plan small victorious special military operations on the basis that in they won't shoot at us, has its pros and cons.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Well, yes, with the complaints of American admirals that the USSR was ahead of them in deployment

                        Complaints of American admirals in Russian LiveJournal. Indeed, where else?
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        That is, if the Russian Federation starts a war in Ukraine, then because it is forced

                        This is what Mr. Putin said. You don't believe Mr. Putin?
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        if the US loses half a fleet at Pearl Harbor

                        Are you talking about Ohlahoma and Arizona? Yes, it was unpleasant.
                        Naturally, they wanted to, they increased the army 5 times in two years and went from zero to the second place in the world in the production of tanks.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Your thesis that the United States has always outnumbered the enemy in deployment, and the USSR / RF have always lost

                        You are misrepresenting my thesis. I said that at the beginning of a special military operation, the Republic of Ingushetia / the USSR always lost in deployment speed to any first-class enemy. The Russian Federation simply did not have such experience with a first-class opponent - although it won against Ukraine, even twice. And Georgia has one.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Although stating that the Germans were ALWAYS ahead of the Red Army in deployment on the basis that they were ahead of the Red Army in 1941 is the same as saying that the Wehrmacht defeated the Red Army

                        To state that the Germans were ahead of the USSR/RI in deployment means that the Germans were ahead of the USSR/RI in deployment. Without any of your own delusional fantasies that you are so comfortable exposing.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        This is precisely the advance in deployment, whether you like it or not.

                        This, according to Comrade. Khrushchev, was nothing more than an attempt to "put a hedgehog in the pants of the Americans." These missiles had absolutely no military value in the USSR / USA conflict (only a couple of years remained before the ICBMs) and the maximum task was to provoke the Americans into a nuclear strike on Cuba - after which 50 years shed crocodile tears over a million other dead Cubans in all French and German newspapers. As now, RIA Novosti or Samsonov love to gossip about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

                        When it became clear that they were still going to die not in Cuba, but in the USSR, they hushed up the whole story in a matter of days.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        But in fact, in places of basing, they hit precisely the harbors, and not the air.

                        Well, again, the additional consumption of warheads. And by the way, you need to get there for sure - it's not so easy to do.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        In reality, alas, the US Armed Forces are not ready for a full-scale nuclear war.

                        It is difficult to think of a more dangerous idea than the assumption that the enemy is not ready for an exchange of strategic blows. I would even beware of making such a statement about the Russian side, despite all the old and new achievements of the Soviet and post-Soviet army.
                        So that the enemy could not answer, you know, you need not to assume, but to do this result with your own hands.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Managing funnels from special warheads is very difficult

                        Will your warheads also reach the ground? Wonderful. You won't kill even one million.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        At three dozen major US ports - more than

                        1. How many special warheads are you going to allocate for a 30 sq km port?
                        2. Where did the hypothesis come from that the 31st and all subsequent ports are not enough for something? Considering the likely decline in exports of Chinese consumer goods in the course of events described?
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        The 50 largest cities in the US are 50 million people. Evaporate a third of the strategic warheads of the Russian Federation

                        It seems that it’s not God knows what task to find the area of ​​​​the zone of severe destruction during cotton 150-900 kt warheads and estimate the total area of ​​​​urbanized zones that can be destroyed by the available means. But no, it is not available to patriots.

                        PS. Speaking of patriots. I looked for discussions on this topic in past years and saw that just a year ago you demonstrated realism on this issue. Wow, what does TV do to people?
                      3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 November 2022 01: 20
                        0
                        Quote: Negro
                        They fought brilliantly, with virtually no casualties.

                        :))) Oh sure. Taking into account the American system, when any loss of blood to wear and tear is recorded in non-combat - so as not to pay "compensation" :)))
                        And so, yes, "brilliant." All strategic goals have been achieved :))))
                        Quote: Negro
                        No sane person doubts this. I see you are not one of them. How many times have the Minutemen been tested in the last 10 years? Yars? R-36M?

                        Well, answer your own question :) How much?
                        Quote: Negro
                        The treaty limits not only the number of warheads, but also carriers.

                        Mon cher, you heard a ringing, but you don’t know where it is. Dthe clause just limits the number of carriers, not warheads. Warhead restrictions are a fiction, an agreement that carriers are counted according to a certain principle - SLBMs for 4 warheads, etc. At the same time, the contract does not prohibit having additional warheads. And they, these warheads, we (and the Americans) have a little more than 1500. For example, one START-3 stratobomber is considered as a carrier of ONE nuclear charge. And he can carry them...
                        Quote: Negro
                        The early warning system was a buggy system, both sides knew about it. It's funny that you "forgot" the same triggers from the Soviet side.

                        No need to jump off the topic :)) You said out of the blue here that with a 50% probability of deploying strategic nuclear forces of the Russian Federation, the United States will immediately deliver a preemptive strike to everything that is ready. And when you were poked in the nose that the United States did not even dare to deliver a retaliatory strike (yes, we did not risk it either at the time), then you quickly decided to jump off the topic that had become uncomfortable for you.
                        And I return it and repeat - if the Russian Federation needs to deploy its strategic nuclear forces to the fullest - the United States with the highest probability will not know about it. And even if they suspect something, they will not dare to act.
                        Quote: Negro
                        That's right - if we are talking about a minuteman or a trident.

                        Alas, neither the Minuteman nor the Trident guarantee a hit. In general, did you study the performance characteristics of American missiles, according to the Murzilka magazine, or what?
                        Quote: Negro
                        Russian tradition

                        Be responsible for your words, no need to whine about traditions
                        Quote: Negro
                        This is what Mr. Putin said. You don't believe Mr. Putin?

                        I do not believe. Is this news for you? :)))) And yes, no one forced the Russian Federation to attack on February 24, 2022. As always, you are misrepresenting - Putin said that Russia was put in conditions in which it could solve the Ukrainian issue only by force. But when exactly to decide it, February 24, or March, 2022 or 2018 - this is at the discretion of the Russian Federation.
                        Quote: Negro
                        You are misrepresenting my thesis. I said that at the beginning of a special military operation, the Republic of Ingushetia / the USSR always lost in deployment speed to any first-class enemy.

                        For example - PMV. Russian armies invade German territory after the start of the conflict... OH!
                        Quote: Negro
                        To state that the Germans were ahead of the USSR/RI in deployment means that the Germans were ahead of the USSR/RI in deployment.

                        There is no God but NATO and Negro is his prophet. Amen :)))) I won’t even ask how the Germans got ahead in the deployment of the Red Army near Stalingrad, near Kursk, in Operation Bagration ... It is clear that there will be no answer.
                        Quote: Negro
                        This, according to Comrade. Khrushchev, was nothing more than an attempt to "put a hedgehog in the pants of the Americans." These missiles had absolutely no military value in the USSR / USA conflict

                        :)))))))) Yes, you are delirious, my dear. That is, the fact that a significant territory of the United States was under attack by nuclear weapons has no military value? You say don't talk
                        Quote: Negro
                        Well, again, the additional consumption of warheads. And by the way, you need to get there for sure - it's not so easy to do.

                        No additional expense. Learn the materiel, in terms of the impact of an atomic explosion.
                        Quote: Negro
                        It is difficult to think of a more dangerous idea than the assumption that the enemy is not ready for an exchange of strategic blows.

                        You have been told that the US military is not ready for a nuclear war. What's with the exchange of punches? They will inflict a blow with something that takes off. But the US Armed Forces are not ready for the impact of nuclear weapons.
                        Quote: Negro
                        Will your warheads also reach the ground? Wonderful. You won't kill even one million.

                        For the main industries - they will fly. By city - no
                        Quote: Negro
                        1. How many special warheads are you going to allocate for a 30 sq km port?

                        Here for the sake of interest - what do you mean by an area of ​​​​30 square meters. km?:)))
                        Quote: Negro
                        Where did the hypothesis come from that the 31st and all subsequent ports are not enough for something?

                        Actually, it’s enough to kill 10-15 main ports
                        Quote: Negro
                        It seems that it’s not God knows what task to find the area of ​​​​the zone of severe destruction during cotton 150-900 kt warheads and estimate the total area of ​​​​urbanized zones that can be destroyed by the available means. But no, it is not available to patriots.

                        The answer is very simple - for a long time 100 CT = death of 100 thousand people have been used in calculations. in urban areas.
                      4. gsev
                        gsev 29 November 2022 07: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Negro
                        They fought brilliantly, with virtually no casualties. However, the State Department refused to do its part of the work,

                        For 4 years before the end of the war in Afghanistan, things seemed to be going well for the Americans. Self-defense units were created from opponents of the Taliban in many Afghan villages. However, the Americans withdrew from the war in an effort to minimize their losses. The Taliban began to beat out their especially active opponents. With unprincipled opponents, the Taliban preferred to negotiate neutrality. The State Department could not do anything in such an environment. The Taliban attacked and killed all foreigners, even engineers who were building a bridge in Chamkani for local residents. A year before the Americans left, a neutrality agreement was concluded with most of the security forces. Moreover, the Taliban had nothing against the service of the Afghans in the army, police, civil service, state security agencies of the Afghans. The Taliban demanded only a lack of zeal in the war with them. "Shoot in the direction of the Taliban, but a little to the side. And attack as slowly as possible." Moreover, the Taliban did not carry out reprisals against those who agreed to such an agreement, even if their counterparts did not quite clearly fulfill the requirements of the Taliban. Therefore, the United States did not have time to leave Afghanistan, as the power of the Taliban fell. If Putin can make Eastern Europe a black hole for the West, which does not bring dividends to the West, but only absorbs resources, we will be left behind, as India, China and Afghanistan were left in their time.
                      5. Negro
                        Negro 29 November 2022 08: 43
                        +1
                        )))
                        Quote: gsev
                        If Putin can turn Eastern Europe into a black hole for the West,

                        First, I have to remind you that "Eastern Europe" is larger than Russia. Approximately equal in population, more in terms of economy and military power. So there is a question of who will leave whom there or will not leave alone.
                        Quote: gsev
                        For 4 years before the end of the war in Afghanistan, things seemed to be going well for the Americans

                        As I already wrote, the Americans never had military problems in Afghanistan. But since they always had a stake in Afghanistan, they did not create any sustainable political/social project there. So as soon as they left there, everything returned to the state "before the Americans" in a day.
                      6. gsev
                        gsev 29 November 2022 16: 08
                        0
                        [quote = Negro])))
                        [/ Quote]
                        First, I have to remind you that "Eastern Europe" is larger than Russia. Approximately equal in population, more in terms of economy and military power. So there is a question of who will leave whom there or will not leave alone.
                        [quote] Immediately after the occupation of Afghanistan, Zalmay Khalilzad loudly declared that the Pashtuns are now the best allies of the United States and the US government and people will help them more than any countries before, remembering their contribution to the victory over the USSR in the Cold War. This character immediately, in company with Ukrainians, began to prepare manuals for overthrowing Putin on the basis of the experience gained by the United States in overthrowing the Taliban.
                      7. Negro
                        Negro 29 November 2022 20: 37
                        0
                        Quote: gsev
                        Zalmay Khalilzad loudly declared

                        And who is it?
                      8. gsev
                        gsev 29 November 2022 21: 02
                        0
                        Quote: Negro
                        Quote: gsev
                        Zalmay Khalilzad loudly declared

                        And who is it?

                        It seems that this person planned the US policy in Afghanistan during the rule of the communists in this country. From 1985-1989 he worked for the US State Department as Special Adviser to the Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs. He dealt with the issues of the Iran-Iraq war and the Soviet war in Afghanistan, maintained close ties with the leaders of the Mujahideen.
                        From 1989-1991, he was a senior political analyst at the RAND Corporation and associate professor at the University of California, San Diego.
                        From 1991 to 1992, he was Assistant to the Deputy Secretary of Defense for Political Planning.
                        In 1993-1999, he again worked at the RAND Corporation: he was the director of the Strategy, Doctrine and Troop Structure program of the Air Force project. During his tenure at RAND, he founded the Center for Middle East Studies. Chief Advisor for Afghan projects of the American oil company Unocal.
                        From 2000-2001, he was the head of the Bush-Cheney Department of Defense transition team, then adviser to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.
                        Since May 2001 - Special Assistant to the President of the United States and Senior Director for Southwest Asia, the Middle East and North Africa of the US National Security Council. During this period, he was subordinate to the then National Security Adviser to the President, Condoleezza Rice. Khalilzad's performance as ambassador to Iraq, unlike his predecessors Paul Bremer and John Negroponte, was assessed positively. Khalilzad was one of the few senior Bush administration officials who warned about the danger of sectarian violence as the main threat to stability in the country. In November 2007, Khalilzad accused Iran of providing assistance to insurgent groups in Iraq and Afghanistan. He also stated that after the report of the IAEA Commission on Iran, the Iranian government continued to develop its nuclear program.

                        In August 2008, after the outbreak of the conflict in South Ossetia, Khalilzad called on the UN Security Council to "take urgent action" to condemn Russia's attack on Georgia. March 18, 2021 Khalilzad at a hearing in the US House Foreign Affairs Committee on US policy in Afghanistan said he was unsure of a quick takeover by the Taliban after the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan. According to the spokesman, “if the Taliban seek what I think is a military victory, it will lead to a long war because the Afghan Security Forces will fight, other Afghans will fight, neighbors will come to the aid of different sides.”[12]

                        Following the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan on August 31 and the subsequent Taliban offensive, Khalilzad resigned as special envoy on October 18. At least this person voiced the position of the United States on key issues of world politics in relation to Afghanistan, Iraq, South Ossetia, negotiated the transfer of power in Afghanistan to the Taliban from the American invaders. I know that in a team with Ukrainian women, immediately after the US entered Afghanistan, he began to make plans to overthrow Putin. We can say that it was this man who withdrew American troops from Afghanistan and brought the Pashtun Taliban to power ..
    3. Mikhail Sidorov
      Mikhail Sidorov 24 November 2022 16: 36
      0
      After all, Russia has a nuclear capability capable of destroying the planet several times over.

      Alas, in reality, the United States is not enough. Drive into the Stone Age - maybe, but not completely destroy
      But is there now a technological possibility to increase the power of warheads?
  11. Predometrix
    Predometrix 24 November 2022 11: 54
    -5
    According to the commander, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are generally not capable of pushing the Russian army back to the former borders.

    According to these military leaders, Ukraine should have lost Kyiv in March and started to partisan in the Carpathians.
    If you search, you will surely find their statements "APU is not able to push the Russian army away from Kyiv at all", "they are not able to take control of the Kharkiv region", "they are not able to return Kherson", etc.

    The West is risking its intervention to derail the conflict into an uncontrollable escalation.

    Very, very often everyone around mentions escalation. But I still don't understand what that means? Nuclear strikes on Washington? They won't. Tank wedges along the Suwalki corridor? Also no. Nothing threatens dear partners, but they themselves do not understand this (and it is good that they do not understand).
    1. Negro
      Negro 24 November 2022 14: 38
      +1
      Quote from Predometrix
      If you search, you will surely find their statements.

      Kyiv in three days one landing regiment - this is exactly what Milli promised the Communist Party.
  12. fuel oil
    fuel oil 24 November 2022 11: 54
    +2
    The author is right in many respects. The cumulative negative effect on society, the economy will only grow. Here, many write and say smart things. The question is different. What do the authorities think about? Instead of careful preparation, some spontaneous actions, changing slogans and slogans for the army and society , tightening certain strikes on critical infrastructure, stretching forces and means over vast territories, rosy reports from the Ministry of Defense, where air defense, aviation and airfields have been completely destroyed, but in reality it turns out somehow differently and the main thing is given carte blanche for the delivery and uninterrupted replenishment of Western weapons production, the ability to bring up manpower and very quickly transfer it from site to site. Do we really want to win? reforms and hinder the progress of the country and society.
    1. Barberry25
      Barberry25 24 November 2022 13: 05
      +1
      the problem is secrecy and bad propaganda ... we have 99% of the information comes through rumors.
  13. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 24 November 2022 11: 59
    0
    What a shame in NATO, the Russian oligarchs did not exchange movables and real estate in the west for factories in Russia. Idiots. Russian oligarchs have much better real estate in Russia. They are not so poor as to have a palace or a villa only in the west.
  14. And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 24 November 2022 12: 36
    -1
    It is impossible to keep the thin line between the impossibility of attacking Ukraine and liberating Russia for a long time. Simply because no one has ever been able to do this before in history. Always won either one or the other.

    Did the author hear about the Iran-Iraq war? 8 years of marking time and a draw in the end.
    1. Evgeny Fedorov
      24 November 2022 20: 32
      +1
      Iraq started the war. He did not achieve his goals even with the help of the Americans. Iran defended its territory. Is it a draw? Evaluate now the level of development of Iraq and Iran to understand who is the winner.
      1. And Us Rat
        And Us Rat 24 November 2022 21: 09
        -5
        Quote: Evgeny Fedorov
        Iraq started the war. He did not achieve his goals even with the help of the Americans. Iran defended its territory. Is it a draw?

        This is according to Soviet guidelines. But in fact, the war was a matter of time, intense competition for influence in the region had matured for decades, the Yankees rather restrained it while the Shah was in Iran, and then only slightly pushed Saddam. They didn’t even push, but simply made it clear that they would turn a blind eye to this.
        The fact that neither side won, yes, is a draw. And also a clear indicator that both countries were preparing for the war and were ready.
        And by the way, the goal of Iran in this war was the overthrow of Saddam, they officially recognized this.

        Quote: Evgeny Fedorov
        Assess now the level of development of Iraq and Iran

        If we discard the Iranian propaganda, and assent to it from the Russian media, then their level of development is similar - both, as before, third world countries.
        1. Evgeny Fedorov
          25 November 2022 05: 18
          +3
          I have a Soviet training manual, you have Wikipedia. Iran could declare anything. They defended their territory and defended. And Iraq has not achieved anything, only put a lot of people. He left in disgrace. Wars don't have draws. For example, the one who starts and does not achieve his goals loses. And in your comparison of the level of development of Iran and Iraq, I applaud standing.
          1. And Us Rat
            And Us Rat 25 November 2022 11: 38
            -2
            I will not convince you, you are an adult, you have the right to your delusions.
  15. Barberry25
    Barberry25 24 November 2022 13: 04
    +2
    all just tanks cost money .. how much does a conditional Dingo cost? Well, a maximum of 100 euros in the coolest version .. and Leo 000? at least a couple of million euros in the worst version .. and without shells .. War is an expensive thing .. So that NATO understands that it takes at least a couple of peaceful years to saturate the Armed Forces of Ukraine with equipment, so the more Russia presses, the more they will talk about peace negotiations, the problem is that they will not fulfill the conditions of peace, and Russia is not profitable
  16. Rakitin
    Rakitin 24 November 2022 13: 50
    +1
    Regarding the "stolen 300 billion", the nuance is that they were stolen a long time ago, at the time these funds were placed in the debt obligations of Western countries. Not only is no one going to repay these debts, there are already big problems with the current payment of interest (so far in Japan and Britain, where the largest public debts relative to GDP, then - everywhere).
    Let's make an analogy. A bankrupt bank refuses to give its client the contents of his bank deposit box, in which the bills of this bank were kept. What changes from this? Nothing - bankrupt's bills have zero value. It is the same with the "transfer of frozen Russian assets to Ukraine" - well, like they will transfer to them the debt obligations of the Bank of England or American treasuries previously sold by the Russian Federation as part of the colonial administration package. So the Ukrainians will immediately try to exchange them for cash, and the demand for Western debt now lags far behind supply. With the same success, you can draw at least 10 trillion IOUs and give them to Ukraine. But she doesn’t need papers, but real goods ...
    1. far diu
      far diu 24 November 2022 21: 42
      +2
      I don’t know about Brazil, but Japan continues to keep the yield on its bonds in the form of buying back all sales from investors. Now the yield is in the region of 0,2% -0,4%. In general, roughly speaking, prints money. The peculiarity of the Japanese economy is that they have an aging population that preferentially saves rather than spends, which is why they have near zero inflation. Therefore, they have been printing money all this time, but this has no effect on their debt load. In 2022, due to rising energy prices and due to the failure of the chains, the inflation rate is now 3,6% in annual terms. This is despite the fact that their currency (yen) has weakened by 20% against the dollar (due to an aging population and lack of demand for goods and services, inflation is still low). In general, until their inflation rises to double digits, they can ''print'' as much as they need.

      The main thing is debt stabilization, not size. Poor countries with low debt-to-GDP ratios but high interest rates are more at risk due to risks and low investor confidence.
  17. bandabas
    bandabas 24 November 2022 14: 15
    +1
    There are vague doubts that an agreement exists on all sides. And the main goal is to completely finish off the remnants of the USSR. Moreover, by the hands of the former "fraternal" peoples among themselves.
    1. UAZ 452
      UAZ 452 25 November 2022 15: 16
      0
      And the main goal is to completely finish off the remnants of the USSR. Moreover, by the hands of the former "fraternal" peoples among themselves.

      So if these "brotherly" peoples themselves are ready to engage in mutual genocide with great pleasure, then why should our non-partners interfere with them (us) in this?
  18. Negro
    Negro 24 November 2022 14: 40
    +4
    As I understand it, now all the hope for the victory of Russia is associated not with General Surovkin, but with General Milli.
    1. N3onMiami
      N3onMiami 25 November 2022 07: 42
      +1
      It's one thing to rub for years about the second army of the world, that we are all NATO with one left, about analogues, about the fact that everyone is afraid of us.
      But reality is another matter. She is much more prosaic.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 24 November 2022 20: 02
    +2
    Imagine Germany, which will take and give Zelensky all their Leopards.
    Stay defenseless? Before whom?

    Well, at least in front of Poland ...
  21. far diu
    far diu 24 November 2022 21: 28
    +1
    Now the West is definitely not playing at a loss - 300 billion stolen dollars are warming the pocket. As soon as the losses of the Zelensky regime from the special operation overcome the coveted amount, the strategy will have to be modified.


    300 billion frozen is not all the profit, at least for the United States. Over the past 55 weeks, there has been capital flight in the EU, Japan, and almost all the capital has gone to the States. This alone brought in several trillion dollars. Also due to this European and Japanese capital, the dollar strengthened significantly (since investors began to sell EU assets in euros, and then exchange euros for dollars and buy US assets for dollars). Also, due to the strengthening of the dollar against all currencies of the so-called developed countries, it led to the export of inflation in the form of an increase in imports from other countries and thereby reducing the cost of goods in the United States (now inflation has slowed significantly above the forecast to 7,6% per annum instead of the expected value of 8%, mainly for these reasons).

    So the United States has made very good money on this.


    After all, Russia has a nuclear capability capable of destroying the planet several times over.


    It is a myth. There will not even be a nuclear winter if the entire arsenal of pestilence is launched at one point. Yes, and according to the calculation, it turns out that all the warheads in the world will be enough, taking into account the high radiation that threatens life in the form of an area of ​​​​about a million km². The main thing is that the officials of the nuclear countries do not find out about this.
  22. nedgen
    nedgen 25 November 2022 02: 54
    0
    I just want to note that the picture shows not BMP-2, but BMP-1 with towers from BMD-2
  23. Illanatol
    Illanatol 25 November 2022 14: 19
    0
    Quote: Negro
    A 1500-for-1500 exchange of strikes will not lead to the Stone Age, and will not even have a noticeable effect on the US military. The losses of the US population are noticeable, but not critical, in percentage terms, significantly lower than the losses of the USSR during the Second World War.


    An exchange of blows of 1500 to 1500 (approximately 200-300 mgt) will set countries back for centuries. The main losses will not be direct, but from the consequences. Destroyed nuclear power plants, chemical plants, dams on large rivers.
    In an equal exchange (in terms of the number of warheads and their total power), the United States will lose three times as many people. The modern city is not Hiroshima (a large village), but an object with a complex infrastructure. The destruction of the transport system, utilities, the collapse of finance and logistics. Most will die from hunger, thirst, disease, etc. Agricultural land will be poisoned by radioactive fallout. The rest of the population will be disorganized and out of control.
    In a year or two, no more than 20% of the current population will remain in the United States.
  24. Illanatol
    Illanatol 25 November 2022 14: 29
    +1
    Quote: far diu
    Also, due to the strengthening of the dollar against all currencies of the so-called developed countries, it led to the export of inflation in the form of an increase in imports from other countries and thereby reducing the cost of goods in the United States (now inflation has slowed significantly above the forecast to 7,6% per annum instead of the expected value of 8%, mainly for these reasons).


    I have to disappoint you: the strengthening of the national currency is not always good. This weakens export opportunities and strengthens the position of importers in the domestic market, as well as increases the cost of servicing the external public debt (which is valued in dollars).
  25. Illanatol
    Illanatol 25 November 2022 14: 32
    +1
    Quote: far diu
    Yes, and according to the calculation, it turns out that all the warheads of the world will be enough, taking into account the high radiation that threatens life in the form of an area of ​​​​about a million km²


    And this is quite enough for unacceptable damage. The area of ​​large cities, in which more than half of the population of developed countries lives, is much less than this value.
  26. Vincent price
    Vincent price 25 November 2022 14: 38
    +1
    In my opinion, from the first day it was obvious that the GDP was deceived into an open conflict. The speech about nuclear weapons, the complete absence of deliveries of offensive weapons to Ukraine, the unwillingness to sign documents, all this was part of the plan to prosecute the Russian Federation. The plan has been completed.
    1. UAZ 452
      UAZ 452 25 November 2022 15: 11
      +1
      It is very possible that we were used in the dark to consolidate, to bring the Western world out of hibernation. Someone thought we'd be a good fit for the grindstone. And we were foolish enough to rush into the trap with all the enthusiasm of a village fool.
  27. UAZ 452
    UAZ 452 25 November 2022 15: 07
    0
    Such publications only confirm that we have finally turned into waiters, accustomed to hoping for favorable changes in external conditions for us: Republicans in America will come to power, support for Ukraine from the West will be depleted, the enemy will run out of shells / armored vehicles / aviation / fuel and lubricants ... Quintessence this expectation - you don’t need to do anything, change anything, you just need to endure, and everything will be fine ... Alas, Lewis Carroll said best of all about this - you need to run as fast as you can to stay in one place. If someone is tired of running, the sands of historical oblivion will very quickly bury him.
  28. Lena Petrova
    Lena Petrova 25 November 2022 17: 49
    0
    There should not be a single purchase of Western assets on our territory for real money. Let subtract from the frozen sum. And whoever wants to buy from ours already contributes this amount to the budget here. Or take it to the account of the frozen amount. The only way.
  29. cat-begemot
    cat-begemot 26 November 2022 03: 12
    0
    The title of the article itself suggests that the article, in general, is a slag. A set of words.