Military Review

Helmets and crowns in the Middle Ages

230
Helmets and crowns in the Middle Ages
The brightness of medieval knightly outfits and the splendor of jewelry today can only be envied. Frame from the film "Secrets of the Burgundy Court" (1961)



My throne is a saddle, my glory is on the field,
My crown is a helmet, the whole world is my power.

"Shahname". Ferdowsi Hakim Abulkasim

History Middle Ages. It is always nice when you are asked questions that you are interested in answering. So recently at VO I was asked a question about heraldic helmets and crowns crowning them. Because, yes, indeed, in the Middle Ages, among noble people, there was a custom to amuse their arrogance with a precious crown on their helmets. So that not only by a horse blanket, a surcoat, a shield and all kinds of emblems, but also by a crown, as if from a photograph in a passport, he could be easily identified on the battlefield. And the thing is that already in the XIII century, the warrior's helmet became a kind of basis for heraldic coloring and heraldic figures with which it was decorated.


The landing of the army of Harald Hardrad and the defeat of the army of Northumberland. Miniature from the Life of St. Edward the Confessor" by Matthew of Paris. circa 1250 Parker Library, Corpus Christi College, Cambridge. One crown is visible on the topfhelm helmet, the other is worn directly on the mail hood

Already the warriors on the “Bayeux tapestry” painted their helmets in different colors. There are also many miniatures from manuscripts of different centuries showing warriors in painted helmets. Until the middle of the XNUMXth century, when the “big helmet” (topfhelm) became the main helmet of the equestrian knight, and later it also continued to be painted, but since coats of arms also appeared by the same time, coat of arms colors were often chosen for this purpose.


"Romance of Alexander", 1338-1344 England, Bodleian Library. On the head of the rider on the right is a late type of topfhelm helmet with a pointed crown, on which his crown is put on!

But only colors, without figures, it was somehow “not interesting”. And the so-called Kleinods, or helmet decorations, made of lightweight materials, begin to be attached to helmets. The coat of arms had a violent fantasy, so it is not surprising that the whole peasant inventory, parts of armor, and various weapon, and all living creatures, even naked female figures - and they hit the knights on the head!


Coats of arms, helmets and helmet decorations of the 1899th century. "Heraldic Atlas" by Hugo Gerhard Strel. Stuttgart, XNUMX

However, a lot of time passed before the helmet itself became a heraldic accessory. In any case, until the end of the XNUMXth century, it was included in the coat of arms only as a “platform” for the Kleinod. The helmets that we see in early heraldic manuscripts, and which are depicted on the monuments, follow any style that became fashionable at one time or another.


Evolution of the Grand Slam 1331-1370 Royal Arsenal, Leeds

And helmets at that time were practically not used to indicate the rank of the owner, and armorials clearly prove this fact, because then everyone, from a knight to a monk, used the same image of a helmet.


Ulrich von Liechtenstein (c. 1200 - c. 1275). The helmet is decorated with the figure of the goddess Venus. "Manes Code". Heidelberg University Library

Only from 1500 did the presence of a crown or diadem on helmets begin to designate those knights who belonged to the royal family. And by the same time, the appearance on the helmets of the “lattice” at the visor, or “open helmet”, with a certain number of vertical plates decorating it on the front can be attributed. This was the first attempt, characteristic of the Renaissance, to introduce an additional identification system into heraldic use. Moreover, on the helmet, both the metal itself from which it was made, and the number of “lattice” plates now corresponded to the rank of the coat of arms owner and his position in society.


Various schematic views of helmets used in heraldry

As always, everything simple and logical was soon supplemented by tinsel and superfluous. Helmets began to be decorated with various patterns, gold and silver edging, and, of course, a strictly fixed number of "latches" that accurately indicated the rank of their wearer. The coats of arms of nobles of a lower rank had either a fully closed helmet, with a closed visor that completely hid the face, or a helmet that received the playful but very accurate name “frog face”, since it looked like a popular tournament helmet - “toad head”.


A fleur-de-lis crown on a bascinet helmet. The Mirror of History (Volume 1), 1370-1380 National Library of France, Paris

As in most cases in the field of heraldry, France excelled here. Moreover, the French heralds came up with not only various forms of helmets, ranging from the monarch (whose helmet had to be entirely gold, with an open visor) and to the newly minted aristocrats (a simple steel helmet with three bars), but also determined the position in which was a helmet on the coat of arms.


And here, too, the king fights in the “crowned helmet”. "Great Chronicles of France", 1390-1405. National Library of France, Paris

Most of the helmets were turned with the front part to the right, that is, in the direction of "dexter". A helmet turned backwards, or "sinister", indicated the illegitimacy of its owner. Spain and Portugal followed the example of France, so that the same system was established in their heraldry.


And here the king is watching the bombardment of the city. "Flowers of the Chronicle", 1384-1400 Paris, France. Municipal Library of Besançon

But in the Holy Roman Empire, a simplified system for using a helmet in the coat of arms was developed. The German titled nobility inserted helmets with bars into their coats of arms, but without any certain number of plates in them, but it was understood that the aristocracy (up to the third generation) should use a closed helmet. However, at the end of the XNUMXth century, German and Scandinavian families with ancient bloodlines made an attempt to establish their heraldic superiority over the new aristocracy through the use of family coats of arms, made in the manner of the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries, with a large helmet, characteristic of those times. Well, I want at least some people to be higher than others!

The English aristocracy knew only two images of the heraldic helmet. The first is a silver helmet with golden slats, which was given only to representatives of the highest aristocracy (peers, etc.). And the “second-class nobility”: knights, baronets and “gentry” - in the coat of arms had a steel-colored closed helmet, with an open visor for the first two categories and completely closed for the “gentry”.


"Edward the Black Prince receives possession of Aquitaine from his father, King Edward III." Initial "E" (initial) on a page of an illustrated manuscript from 1390. British Library, London. British Library Online Gallery

Documents of the XIV century. indicate that at that time most rulers used coats of arms that had helmets with kleinods without any special royal distinction. Crowns and diadems, common in heraldry, were either placed above the shield or helmet, or used as a special figure on the shield itself. Early heraldic diadems were simplified versions of the crowns of kings and princes. From the jeweled crown came a whole range of ornamental leaf-like decorations, which in the following centuries took shape in lily flowers, strawberry leaves and other patterns familiar to heraldry, characteristic of the design of helmet mantlings. Ranking styles of tiaras for aristocrats were established in the XNUMXth and XNUMXth centuries, although the European aristocracy even before that, judging by the miniatures, wore and used their own, differing tiaras for centuries.


What did the helmet crowns look like? Here we are lucky! The effect of Edward the Black Prince in Canterbury Cathedral, in Kent, has come down to us, on the helmet of which the helmeted crown is clearly visible. And this is exactly the bascinet crown. Because Edward's topfhelm lies under his head. Photograph by Julian P. Gaffogg


Effigia of Edward the Black Prince. Photo: RDIMAGES/EPICS/GETTY IMAGES


"Helmet of the Black Prince". This is what it would look like if you could get it. Made from several large plates riveted together, the helmet completely covers the wearer's head. Visibility is provided by a horizontal viewing slit with a short bar between the eyes for better protection. A cross-shaped hole near the bottom edge allowed the helmet to be attached to the wearer's belt or armor with a metal chain. Numerous artistic depictions of great helmets show that they were often worn over a close-fitting unvisored bascinet to provide an extra layer of protection. Royal Arsenal, Leeds

The Renaissance introduced a whole system of diadems and crowns into heraldry. It was established how many leaf-shaped points and pearls should be placed on the hoop, depending on the rank of the wearer. Moreover, it is important to keep in mind that in most cases this is nothing more than a heraldic convention, and such “models” of crowns have never really been worn. The states of Southern Europe took French heraldry as a basis in this regard, while Northern Europe was equal to the Holy Roman Empire.


It should be noted that the spread of helmet crowns was associated not only with the need to identify senior commanders on the battlefield, but also with the very shape of the bascinet helmet, on which such crowns held very well. Here in front of us, for example, is a 1:6 scale figurine of a French knight of the Hundred Years War from Quomodels in a bascinet helmet with a visor. Photo: https://gsoldiers.ru


And this is a helmet from one of the figures and a crown to it. Made, as you can see, it is very realistic. Photo: https://gsoldiers.ru

The only aristocracy (as opposed to the royal nobility) who actually wore and continues to wear tiaras and crowns is the noble elite of Britain, where such jewelry is worn on special occasions - for example, on the day of the coronation of the monarch. At the moment of placing the crown on his head, the peers also put on their diadems. In the modern world, tiaras are sometimes drawn in the coats of arms of some municipalities, not only in Europe, but also in Gabon (West Africa), so far from the Old World.


Today we have at our disposal the crown of St. Wenceslas - as it is officially called, which is made of gold weighing from 21 to 22 carats (from 88 to 92%) and decorated with 91 precious stones and 20 pearls. It contains a total of 19 sapphires, 44 spinels, 30 emeralds and 1 red elbaite (a type of rubellite), which is often mistaken for a ruby. The crown has two hoops and a vertical cross at the point of their intersection. Weight two and a half kilograms. The sapphire cross has an inset cameo in which the scene of the Crucifixion is carved. This crown was clearly not intended to be worn on a helmet, but such crowns could well resemble it. After all, it was made in 1346, in the heyday of, so to speak, the “crown fashion”. Photo by K. Patsevsky

A special system of "professional" crowns has been introduced in modern Russian non-noble heraldry in order to distinguish the old noble coats of arms from the newly created ones.


And this is a crown from the famous “Srodsky treasure”, dating from the middle of the XIV century and discovered during excavations in the city of Strode in Silesia, in southwestern Poland in 1985. Currently, scientists have concluded that this treasure, including the crown, most likely belonged to Emperor Charles IV of the House of Luxembourg. Around 1348, needing funds to support his claim to the imperial title, Charles pawned various items to the Jewish banker Musho (Mojžeš, Mojše) in Sroda. Shortly thereafter, the plague visited Sroda, and no one heard anything more about Moyzhesh. It is believed that he either fled the city, or died of the plague, or became a victim of the townspeople distraught with horror, since the Jews were then blamed for the spread of the plague. What is certain is that no one ever returned this treasure, which after that had lain in the ground for hundreds of years. This crown, however, is not male, but female ... Photo from the RMF FM website

And now a number of conclusions, which in themselves are very interesting. Yes, there were helmets in the coats of arms, but at first only as a pedestal for the Kleinods. Then they tried to use them to rank the owners of the coat of arms, and such ranking, for example, spread in France in the XNUMXth century and even persists as a tradition to this day. But ... in all countries, helmets, and then the crowns on them, had a different look and different symbols. Therefore, what, say, was said about something in Germany, could be completely wrong for England or for Russia! So you can navigate by heraldic helmets and crowns, but ... it's better not to do this!
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  1. ee2100
    ee2100 24 November 2022 04: 41
    +9
    "the crown of Saint Wenceslas ... which is made of gold weighing between 21 and 22 carats"
    Carat - 0,2 grams.
    Those. crown weight 4,4 grams?
    At least read carefully what you write.
    1. kalibr
      24 November 2022 06: 10
      +5
      Quote: ee2100
      At least read carefully what you write.

      Why, when it's on the museum's website? Check for everyone, the checker will fall off!
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 24 November 2022 06: 30
        +7
        You translated everything correctly, Vyacheslav Olegovich. But, not understanding the systems for determining the purity of precious metals, they incorrectly built a phrase in Russian. Hence the questions.
        1. kalibr
          24 November 2022 08: 00
          +7
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          incorrectly built a phrase in Russian.

          Then I hope that knowledgeable people will correct me. This is exactly the beauty of online journalism!
      2. astra wild2
        astra wild2 24 November 2022 09: 07
        +4
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, I'm sorry, but: "the checker will fall off" sounds somehow vulgar.
        You are a wonderful author, vulgarism does not suit you.
        1. kalibr
          24 November 2022 09: 20
          +6
          Quote: Astra wild2
          vulgarism does not suit you.

          Nothing human is alien to me!
    2. Fat
      Fat 24 November 2022 06: 22
      +10
      hi Hello Alexander. Are you in a hurry to go somewhere? And to see?
      24K (carat) - corresponds to 999 samples.
      22K - 916, 917 samples;
      21 - 875 sample, which means that 87,50% gold is present in the alloy;
      19K - 792 sample;
      18K - 750 sample, valuable metal;
      15K - 625 sample, gold content - 62,50%;
      14K - 585 sample, medium quality;
      10K - 417 sample, equivalent to 14K in value;
      9K - 375 test, refers to low quality;
      8K - 333 sample.
      The purest alloy is 24 carats. To calculate the amount of ligature, it is necessary to subtract "carat" from 24. 9K contains the same number of parts of gold and 15 remains for additives.
      I am telling you this as the father of a jeweler ... smile
      1. kalibr
        24 November 2022 08: 00
        +4
        Quote: Thick
        I am telling you this as the father of a jeweler.

        +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 24 November 2022 08: 24
        +5
        How interesting. And then he began to build hypotheses before reading Andrei's comment. In our traditions, nevertheless, the test is probably more often.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 24 November 2022 09: 13
          +5
          In our tradition , rather "spool", introduced in 1711. The metric system for assessing the purity of precious metals has been used in our country since 1927.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 24 November 2022 14: 02
            +2
            Yes. I remember the golden one. Small spool but precious.
      3. ee2100
        ee2100 24 November 2022 09: 17
        +5
        Good morning.
        I am well aware that they have carats there, and we have samples.
        If you are defending the author, then convert 22 carats to grams.
        Its text clearly says - "from gold weighing from 21 to 22 carats"
        Anton correctly wrote that the constructed phrase arose due to the correct translation.
        Shpakovsky's Google translate suffers.
        1. Fat
          Fat 24 November 2022 10: 19
          +5
          I don't know Alexander. In any case, metric, spool, carat samples are by weight, not by volume. The spool is pegged to the pound, the carat is to the carat, ours is pegged to the milligram, 22 carats = 88 spools = 916 fine. It will never occur to you that the product of 88 "pure gold" spools weighs about 40 kg ... Yes, Anton is right ...
          At the same time, the additional reference to weight does not play any role. Not at all, even if it was done in the original textsmile
          Sincerely
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 24 November 2022 10: 36
            +4
            Shpakovsky reacts toxically to other people's mistakes, and to admit that he made a mistake is a thin gut.
            Good luck and all the best!
            1. kalibr
              24 November 2022 11: 10
              0
              Quote: ee2100
              Shpakovsky ... made a mistake

              Jackal Tabaki rejoiced with all his heart! What do you have, Alexander, some kind of petty and womanish little soul ...
              Vaughn Anton wrote everything correctly and everything is obvious to everyone. No, you also need to "repent". Maybe kneel down in front of the computer and send you a photo with an air of remorse?
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 24 November 2022 13: 31
                +2
                Stand up in any position. I don't care.
                1. kalibr
                  24 November 2022 15: 54
                  -1
                  Quote: ee2100
                  Come on

                  And I was not mistaken: "small and womanish soul ...". Just forgot to add the word plebeian. As you want to "lower" someone, they always switch to "you".
              2. vladcub
                vladcub 24 November 2022 14: 56
                +1
                "can kneel in front of the computer" V. Oh, welcome. I hesitate that you did so, you have a different character
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 24 November 2022 11: 29
              +7
              Quote: ee2100
              Shpakovsky reacts toxically to other people's mistakes, and to admit that he made a mistake is a thin gut.
              Good luck and all the best!

              Alexander, good day!
              To be honest, then you also presented Vyacheslav's mistake, quite tactlessly! I think we need to be a little more restrained (more balanced) in assessing someone else's work. There is a popular wisdom: "who does not work, he does not make mistakes."
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 24 November 2022 13: 32
                +2
                Good afternoon!
                There is a certain prehistory of my relationship with Shpakovsky.
                In short, he started first.
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 25 November 2022 04: 15
                  +1
                  Quote: ee2100
                  Good afternoon!
                  There is a certain prehistory of my relationship with Shpakovsky.
                  In short, he started first.

                  Alexander, I know - this story.
                  My personal opinion, it is necessary to put an end to it, otherwise for three years already two comrades respected by me, put “pins” under the “fifth point” to each other like first-graders.
                  .to be honest, I’m even glad that you don’t have pigtails and live in different cities ... ..
              2. vladcub
                vladcub 24 November 2022 16: 29
                +1
                Namesake, +: "who does not work, he does not make mistakes."
              3. burigaz2010
                burigaz2010 24 November 2022 20: 15
                +2
                Hello to all cats, I want to note that Shpakovsky is very rude in the comments. And Alexander just pointed it out to him
            3. vladcub
              vladcub 24 November 2022 16: 56
              +1
              "guts are thin" our people, I also don't really like to admit mistakes.
              At home they scold me for this, but I .... I'm looking for an excuse
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 24 November 2022 19: 30
                +1
                Good evening Vlad! Mistake - error strife.
      4. vladcub
        vladcub 24 November 2022 14: 54
        +3
        Borisych, hello. You, besides the construction site, are you a jeweler? However, for builders, too, jewelry accuracy is not superfluous
        1. Fat
          Fat 24 November 2022 16: 51
          +2
          Of course not. Daughter is a jeweler with a diploma. You have to read to understand what it is about when you get carried away talking about work. smile
          It was much more difficult for me when she studied ... as a psychologist wassat
          hi Greetings Slav.
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 24 November 2022 17: 07
            +2
            Borisych, well done. Trying to keep up with the young.
            My cousin, tried to figure out women's fashion, but in the end he overlaid both his wife and daughter and fashion, in three bends and said: the devil's leg to break there.
            And mine, a couple of years ago, wanted youth louboutins, and they were like a saddle for her.
            She was offended when she heard my definition
            1. kalibr
              24 November 2022 18: 22
              +2
              Quote: vladcub
              wanted youth louboutins

              "What a woman wants, God wants!" I didn't come up with this...
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 24 November 2022 19: 28
                +3
                Don't rub salt in the wound!
                God forbid, mine will hear ..... Then mine will be sour.

                I'll make you run to the store!
                Joke
                1. kalibr
                  24 November 2022 19: 37
                  +3
                  Quote: vladcub
                  God forbid, mine will hear ..... Then mine will be sour.

                  Sorry! We have a routine like this: I write in the morning, then I go with my wife to the market or to the store with her list and buy everything she says. And I carry. We arrive, count the steps and the second breakfast ... then I write again or help prepare dinner. At 12, the granddaughter has lunch (she comes home from work), then we have lunch at one. Then sleep until 3 and again tea and work. The wife says - as you earn, so you eat. But she cooks great.
                  1. vladcub
                    vladcub 25 November 2022 07: 39
                    +1
                    I don't sleep during the day. Somehow it was already this year that it became a tradition to sleep during the day. True, he soon abandoned it: time is a pity.
                    "counting steps" In Oh, buy a fitness bracelet, they don't care, and you won't regret it. I lost weight through him: he kicks me every hour: "you sit for a long time, step by foot"
                    1. kalibr
                      25 November 2022 09: 53
                      +1
                      Quote: vladcub
                      buy a fitness bracelet

                      I have the program built into my mobile phone. Works just like a bracelet.
                      1. vladcub
                        vladcub 26 November 2022 07: 28
                        0
                        It seems Huawei with a similar program?
                        I use a push-button telephone, but for the Internet I already use a "shovel"
                      2. kalibr
                        26 November 2022 08: 51
                        0
                        I can't tell you. I only know that I have an Apple iPhone, my granddaughter gave it to me. And it contains the data of the heart, and the speed of movement, and the asymmetry when walking, and how much has passed ... A lot of things.
                      3. vladcub
                        vladcub 26 November 2022 08: 58
                        0
                        I saw a lot of "stubs", but I personally did not use it.
                        At various times I used: "Lenovo", "Huawei", "Xiaomi", but I'm not familiar with Apple
    3. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 24 November 2022 06: 40
      +8
      Hi Sasha!
      These are translation difficulties and unwillingness to understand the intricacies of various metric systems. "22 carat gold" in England corresponds to "916" in Russia.
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 24 November 2022 09: 21
        +5
        Hi!
        Above Andrey painted everything correctly.
        And of course you are right - Shpakovsky could not understand the meaning of the translated phrase.
    4. Korsar4
      Korsar4 24 November 2022 08: 21
      +4
      I can only assume that this is the weight of some precious stone from this crown.
      1. depressant
        depressant 24 November 2022 09: 10
        +4
        Well, everyone clung to gold ...
        Something else surprised me.
        Miniature from the Codex Manes.
        Is this how Ulrich von Liechtenstein traveled across the battle field with Venus of this size on his head? It looks like a woman is sitting on the shoulders of a warrior. Funny! He hoped that the arrows, bypassing his head, would fall into it? From stunning the enemy?
        Such a kleinod...
        It seems to me that Kleinods of this type are more like a court, ceremonial piece, but not a combat one at all.

        Greetings! Happy new day everyone!
        1. kalibr
          24 November 2022 09: 21
          +6
          Quote: depressant
          Is this how Ulrich von Liechtenstein traveled across the battle field with Venus of this size on his head?

          Of course not. This is how he went to the tournament!
          1. depressant
            depressant 24 November 2022 10: 06
            +5
            Of course not. This is how he went to the tournament!

            Here we would talk about the weight of this kleinod. Placed above the head of a warrior, such a thing inevitably increased the center of gravity of the warrior, which is always bad. Or, having a high windage, with sharp accelerations, it reduced maneuverability by swaying. I wouldn’t put something like that on a helmet in a tournament fight, where it’s quite possible for myself to be killed. I believe that the knightly fashion for huge kleinods quickly passed and over time, as an echo of bygone times, was reflected in women's hat fashion, when entire ships were hoisted on their heads.
            1. kalibr
              24 November 2022 10: 52
              +6
              Quote: depressant
              Of course not. This is how he went to the tournament!

              Here we would talk about the weight of this kleinod. Placed above the head of a warrior, such a thing inevitably increased the center of gravity of the warrior, which is always bad. Or, having a high windage, with sharp accelerations, it reduced maneuverability by swaying. I wouldn’t put something like that on a helmet in a tournament fight, where it’s quite possible for myself to be killed. I believe that the knightly fashion for huge kleinods quickly passed and over time, as an echo of bygone times, was reflected in women's hat fashion, when entire ships were hoisted on their heads.

              300 years is not such a short time ... Even in the middle of the 16th century, "toad's head" helmets were decorated with them! And it began somewhere around 1250, even a little earlier!
            2. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 24 November 2022 12: 17
              +5
              Quote: depressant
              I wouldn’t put something like that on a helmet in a tournament fight, where it’s quite possible for myself to be killed.

              Tournaments have changed over time.
              In the early tournaments, if someone didn’t die, it’s a bad tournament, it’s like coming to football and not seeing a single goal. smile
              In later times, when kleinods began to be used, tournaments no longer posed such a particular danger, and the death of a participant in a tournament was considered ... well, not a tragedy, but something like an accident.
              Kleinods were not heavy, and given that the helmets themselves were already tightly attached to the cuirass by that time, that is, they actually made up one whole with it (otherwise a blow with a spear would simply tear off a person’s head), their weight of several hundred grams is significant to the total the weight of the knight's equipment did not affect.
              1. burigaz2010
                burigaz2010 24 November 2022 20: 21
                +2
                Hello mother-in-law! I advise everyone to watch Klim Zhukov's video on this topic
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 24 November 2022 11: 27
            +4
            This is how he went to the tournament!
            Far from a fact. For most of the historical figures whose poetry is reflected in the Manes Code were already dead at the time of its creation. And the same von Lichtenstein could hardly imagine what the artist would put on his helmet, a quarter of a century after his death.
            1. kalibr
              24 November 2022 11: 50
              +5
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              And the same von Lichtenstein could hardly imagine what the artist would put on his helmet, a quarter of a century after his death.

              There is a description of what he fought in. And there it is Venus on a helmet with a torch and an arrow that is described. In general, his life is described in sufficient detail.
              1. Eule
                Eule 24 November 2022 20: 04
                +3
                Quote: kalibr
                description of what he fought in. And there it is Venus on a helmet with a torch and an arrow

                That is, the artist painted according to a verbal description, and not from nature? Then it is clear that he painted as best he could. Perhaps the figurine was, only the height of a palm, and depicted an undressed girl, since Venus, not Athena.
                Although if a hefty figure is made of papier-mâché, then it is also useful on the battlefield - the enemy crossbowman either incorrectly determines the distance by an exaggeratedly tall figure and misses higher, or aims incorrectly, and hitting the most armored part of the cuirass, and not below it.
            2. Baker
              Baker 24 November 2022 20: 39
              +2
              Far from a fact.

              In the Service of Ladies, Ulrich von Liechtenstein describes his helmet - made of gilded metal and adorned with a peacock feather crest.
        2. lisikat2
          lisikat2 24 November 2022 11: 11
          +5
          Lyudmila Yakovovlevna, I haven't seen you for a long time. Welcome back to the site.
          Like Vera, I am pleased to see the usual "nicknames". It's like talking to old friends.
          Each of us has our own habits, but we forgive loved ones for their weaknesses.
          So I don’t really care about the political differences with which I communicate. I may be wrong, but you do not think that the world consists of black and white colors.
          1. kalibr
            24 November 2022 11: 20
            +5
            Quote from lisikat2
            I may be wrong, but you do not think that the world consists of black and white colors.

            And do not spoil your nerves in vain, like a zebra life, like a zebra ...
            1. lisikat2
              lisikat2 24 November 2022 13: 19
              +1
              Vyacheslav Olegovich, I am for the community of all the colors of the rainbow, otherwise we will not be able to admire the flowers.
              For example, I love: lush dahlias, and Vera likes "September" roses
              1. kalibr
                24 November 2022 15: 38
                +1
                Quote from lisikat2
                love: lush dahlias,

                We do not plant dahlias. But how do you like these flowers?

                Or these?
                Or maybe roses?
                Like these ones...
                And these are lilies in a different light ... They did not fit into the permitted volume, alas.
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 24 November 2022 16: 18
                  +2
                  Rosa "Annie Duprey"? With a citrus scent?
                  1. kalibr
                    24 November 2022 18: 18
                    +2
                    Quote: Korsar4
                    Rosa "Annie Duprey"?

                    To be honest, Sergey, I don’t know. Never sniffed. Somehow I quickly pass by. Our daughter does flowers. Flowers and tomatoes. I pepper and basil. Wife mostly cucumbers.
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 24 November 2022 18: 43
                      +2
                      Check it out for fun. Or ask your daughter.

                      It was not too early to get acquainted with roses. But some varieties are amazing.

                      No wonder the ancient Romans made riddles about them.
                  2. vladcub
                    vladcub 24 November 2022 19: 04
                    +2
                    Sergey, welcome. For me, a rose is enough, but sorting out varieties is not mine .. My flower: "Royal beard" or another name: "Early dawn". I used to have these when I was a kid, but now I can't start them.
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 24 November 2022 19: 16
                      +1
                      Good evening! I generally like conifers. Or maples. True, as you begin to list - and lilacs, and peonies. And don't stop.
                      1. kalibr
                        24 November 2022 19: 29
                        +3
                        Quote: Korsar4
                        I generally like conifers.

                        I have Canadian spruce and just spruce growing in my dacha. Already big...
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 24 November 2022 19: 59
                        +2
                        peonies
                        My mom's favorite flowers. And, by the way, one of the dendrological symbols of Japan, except for sakura and chrysanthemum.
                      3. kalibr
                        24 November 2022 20: 27
                        +2
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        chrysanthemums.

                        There are also peonies. I wanted to lay out especially for you, Anton. But alas, I did not find a photo. But there are many of them, both white and pink. In general, we have a lot of flowers in the country.
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 24 November 2022 20: 34
                        +2
                        In general, we have a lot of flowers in the country.
                        That is why it is a dacha, and not a "Far Eastern hectare"!
                      5. The comment was deleted.
                      6. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 24 November 2022 21: 48
                        +3
                        I'll try to replace the photo. First try. Caught on peonies. Before that, he kept without pictures.

                      7. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 24 November 2022 21: 24
                        +2
                        Yes. And China too. Yang Guifei always had peonies in her bedroom. The emperor fulfilled all her whims. Then he lost his empire. But peonies are not to blame.
                      8. vladcub
                        vladcub 24 November 2022 20: 43
                        +2
                        The lilac is beautiful, it's true. My thuja has been growing for more than 14 years, but the "American butterfly" sucked. I would like to start a new one, but it grows for a very long time, and you can’t bring it ready in your hands, you have to take it by car.
                        Nursery in 4, 5 00 km from me. So I went and took: maple, 2 barberry bushes and planted
                      9. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 24 November 2022 21: 26
                        +1
                        There are amazing varieties of lilacs. If you are in the Moscow region in the second or third decade of May, I can show a fair amount of varieties. It's a miracle.
                      10. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 24 November 2022 21: 53
                        +2
                        Now I'll start throwing photos to the right and left.

                      11. vladcub
                        vladcub 25 November 2022 06: 51
                        +2
                        It is common with us: "Persian" - lilac, white and red are less common
                      12. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 25 November 2022 08: 14
                        +1
                        This is the Olympiad Kolesnikov variety. But the photos don't even come close to capturing the beauty.
                      13. vladcub
                        vladcub 26 November 2022 07: 34
                        +1
                        Won how? I didn't know. Immediately obvious - a florist.
                        Now we know who to contact for help
                    2. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 24 November 2022 19: 41
                      +2
                      For me, a rose is enough
                      Basically like most men.
                2. lisikat2
                  lisikat2 24 November 2022 18: 12
                  +1
                  ALL the flowers are beautiful, both yours and Veryn's Septembers.
                  They, she decorates her balcony like that
        3. kalibr
          24 November 2022 11: 16
          +3
          Quote: depressant
          Well, everyone clung to gold ...

          What, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, are men shrinking? Usually this behavior was previously characteristic of women. Well, I found a mistake and write it ... Everyone will just say thank you. No, speculation has gone, and that does not work correctly, and we must definitely repent. Ugh...
          1. depressant
            depressant 24 November 2022 12: 29
            0
            No, speculation has gone, and that does not work correctly, and we must definitely repent. Ugh...


            Hurt? )))
            Come on, Vyacheslav Olegovich! In my mind, you are a rock...
            I guess it's different. There are so many things I want to say to people! Everyone wants to speak. And it is dangerous. And irritation seethes inside, demanding a way out. Well, he finds. In nitpicking. In a detailed grinding of what is not so important (in other times they would not have noticed, they would have passed by). And this forced caution of experienced people who have something to lose finds a strange way out in attacks on the one who is forced to endure, the Author!
            Princes had whipping boys.
            1. kalibr
              24 November 2022 12: 54
              +1
              Quote: depressant
              Hurt? )))

              No. I just don't like whining jackals.
              1. depressant
                depressant 24 November 2022 13: 11
                +1
                Oh, here I recognize you, ha-ha-ha!
                Is my comment too short, according to the site? )))
                By the way, Misha (Trilobite Owner) is rocking today! Whatever he says, everything is spirit-bearing.
            2. kalibr
              24 November 2022 12: 56
              +1
              Quote: depressant
              And irritation seethes inside, demanding a way out.

              If it bubbles, you need to drink phenibut!
              1. depressant
                depressant 24 November 2022 13: 16
                +1
                phenibut

                Duc is not talking about you! Dosage forms will not help here ...
                Wait for the bubbling after December 1st. That's what's up! I suppose there will be a flow of visitors to the "History" section. They will tear the knights to shreds. And maybe I'm wrong.
                1. kalibr
                  24 November 2022 15: 41
                  +3
                  Quote: depressant
                  They will tear the knights to shreds.

                  I hope so! Because I just signed a contract for the book "The Brilliant Middle Ages: Knights and Castles" (Large Illustrated Atlas). Publishing House AST. It remains to finish one chapter and "Conclusion".
              2. lisikat2
                lisikat2 24 November 2022 18: 17
                +1
                If you have a friend - a neurologist. For example, I can not boast of this. The neurologist treats me well, but if I said that I want .....
                1. kalibr
                  24 November 2022 19: 31
                  +1
                  Quote from lisikat2
                  What do I want

                  Phenibut, by the way, was invented for astronauts. And he is not only drowsy, but also sharpens the memory and calms. Before exams, my students all switched to fenidut.
        4. Korsar4
          Korsar4 24 November 2022 14: 06
          +2
          Hello, Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
          Interesting - that's latched on.

          Generally like - when the head is open. However, in the hood you can comfortably hide it. So sometimes I understand the youth.
          1. depressant
            depressant 24 November 2022 14: 30
            +2
            Generally like - when the head is open. However, in the hood you can comfortably hide it. So sometimes I understand the youth.


            Hello Sergey!
            A hood as a means of isolation from the outside world?
            Mental protection... Sometimes required. Or maybe it's an attribute. But every time I see a carousel that almost hides my face, it's somehow disturbing. Depending on the frailty of the figure - it's a pity.
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 24 November 2022 16: 09
              +1
              Yes. But in the train you can lean against - and sleep. Warm and cozy.

              Although I fully understand the sympathy for the frailty.
    5. hohol95
      hohol95 24 November 2022 09: 08
      +7
      "The crown of St. Wenceslas is made of pure gold (21-22 carats) and decorated with precious stones and pearls. It weighs almost two and a half kilograms, and (including the cross) reaches a height of 19 centimeters. Its diameter is similar - 19 cm. Each of four semi-arcs of 14,5 cm.
      Source: https://news.euro-coins.info/2011/11/8059
    6. Comrade
      Comrade 25 November 2022 03: 16
      +1
      Quote: ee2100
      "the crown of Saint Wenceslas ... which is made of gold weighing between 21 and 22 carats"
      Carat - 0,2 grams. Those. crown weight 4,4 grams?

      So it is said on Wikipedia, which once again confirms its "reputation".
      laughing laughing



      Moreover, at the end of this phrase, a link to the resource is given, from where, in theory, the information was obtained.
      But it says the following.


      As you can see, the original source says that the crown made of 21-22 carat gold, and on Wikipedia they decided to "correct" this information, indicating that the crown is made of gold weighing from 21 to 22 carats.
  2. Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov
    Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov 24 November 2022 06: 42
    +2
    And now a number of conclusions, which in themselves are very interesting.

    ***
    - Stunned! ...


    ***
    1. astra wild2
      astra wild2 24 November 2022 09: 15
      +4
      Vladimir Vladimirovich, I think I can guess who is in such a "Bacinet".
      I just didn't see his glasses.
      Perhaps, together with the shells, they presented him glasses?
  3. Korsar4
    Korsar4 24 November 2022 08: 20
    +7
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. Interesting. There is nothing eternal. And the crowns are sent as collateral.

    As for jewelry, this is an eternal dispute between gold and damask steel.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 24 November 2022 20: 04
      +2
      crowns are sent as collateral.
      "Here will be the city of pledge" (Inscription on the Nienschanz pawnshop, May 1703).
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 24 November 2022 22: 20
        +1
        What else can you expect from Lombards.
  4. astra wild2
    astra wild2 24 November 2022 09: 00
    +5
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, colleagues. Good morning .
    I won’t say that the topic is very interesting to me, but I missed the friendly communication
    1. kalibr
      24 November 2022 10: 54
      +5
      Quote: Astra wild2
      I can't say that the topic is very interesting to me.

      Well, about highways, especially deflated ones, I haven’t written yet.
      1. astra wild2
        astra wild2 24 November 2022 11: 37
        +5
        "all the more deflated", in decent society and with a bare bottom (then there were no panties yet (!
        How is it possible?! ,
        1. kalibr
          24 November 2022 11: 52
          +5
          Quote: Astra wild2
          in a decent society

          Any decent society dreams most of all of the indecent...
          1. depressant
            depressant 24 November 2022 12: 34
            +2
            By the way!
            The plate with characteristic drawings on the helmets did not contain the promised naked women! wassat ))))
            1. kalibr
              24 November 2022 12: 52
              +1
              Quote: depressant
              with characteristic patterns on helmets

              Not found! There are thousands of them ... you will turn sour looking ...
              1. depressant
                depressant 24 November 2022 13: 47
                +1
                Perhaps someone will find it. Distracting from the calculations of the gold content in the crowns.
                However, they probably ran out of steam)))
            2. astra wild2
              astra wild2 24 November 2022 14: 01
              +3
              I have searched myself, but to no avail.
              Probably, they were ashamed of their nakedness and hid
            3. Comrade
              Comrade 25 November 2022 05: 28
              +1
              Quote: depressant
              The plate with characteristic drawings on the helmets did not contain the promised naked women! wassat))))

              Considering the realities of the Middle Ages, we can say that then, in principle, there could not be decorations in the form of naked women on helmets.
              The Catholic Church then played a huge role in the life of society, and even today, in our atheistic time, a naked woman for show by the Vatican is unequivocally interpreted as a sin.
              But naked women on the helmets of the gladiators of Ancient Rome - yes, it is quite possible.
              1. kalibr
                25 November 2022 06: 14
                +2
                Quote: Comrade
                The Catholic Church then played a huge role in the life of society.

                Why didn't she punish Ulrich Liechtenstein when he competed in a women's dress at tournaments to disgrace himself and the "male"? But Zhanna was burned for wearing men's clothes. There have always been exceptions.
                1. Comrade
                  Comrade 25 November 2022 13: 50
                  0
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Why didn't she punish Ulrich Liechtenstein when he competed in a women's dress at tournaments to disgrace himself and the "male"?

                  And he was caught by the church in sodomy?

                  Quote: kalibr
                  But Jeanne was burned for wearing men's clothes

                  Is that what the official accusation says?
                  Quote: kalibr
                  There have always been exceptions.

                  Certainly.
                  However, if the opportunity arises, please post a medieval image of a helmet with a naked woman. Or just a picture from a medieval book, where not Eve is in paradise, but an ordinary woman in what her mother gave birth, in an everyday environment.
                  1. kalibr
                    25 November 2022 15: 14
                    +1
                    Quote: Comrade
                    Or just a picture from a medieval book, where not Eve is in paradise, but an ordinary woman in what her mother gave birth, in an everyday environment.

                    It's as much as you want. There will be a special article about this.
                    1. Comrade
                      Comrade 25 November 2022 16: 19
                      0
                      Quote: kalibr
                      It's as much as you want. There will be a special article about this.

                      Yes interesting.
                      In general, dear colleague, I always read your articles, with the exception of those bearing a political connotation, with pleasure.
                      I take this opportunity to thank you.
                      1. kalibr
                        25 November 2022 17: 28
                        +2
                        Quote: Comrade
                        I take this opportunity to thank you.

                        Thank you. But this is nothing special. If you do the same thing for many years from day to day, then you will learn everything. Imagine that you are interested in the work of Froissart. First you read about him in Russian, then, say, in French or English. Consider all his miniatures, create a collection from them. As a result, you will only need to look at the picture to name the year, who, what and where. Although in general you may not know the history of the Middle Ages at all!
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 25 November 2022 19: 16
                        +1
                        I note, however, that only the first two books from the Froissart Chronicles proper have been translated into Russian.
                      3. kalibr
                        25 November 2022 20: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        two books

                        Well, this is just an example. There are many topics in history that you can get carried away with for a lifetime ...
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 25 November 2022 21: 08
                        +1
                        which can be carried away for a lifetime ...
                        This is if life allows. My obsession with the European Middle Ages took a break of 30 years.
                      5. kalibr
                        26 November 2022 08: 57
                        +1
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        had a break

                        Oh sure. I, too, never thought that I would teach the history of the CPSU and even defend a dissertation on it. And I got to the Middle Ages by accident. I sat in Leninka, saw the book of the Funkens. I looked out of boredom ... I was surprised! I remembered that I read Gorelik in 1975 in Around the World ... And then I had to go to ENLIGHTENMENT, to negotiate about the next book. I told them “Tank on the table”, but I don’t need them, if only you would write us a book about knights ... Then I remembered Funkenov, Gorelik and ... agreed. It was in 1995, and three years later the book "Knights of the Middle Ages" was published. Well, I got carried away ... And then I was offered to write a doctoral thesis on the Middle Ages. Do I know him? Not! What do I know? At least somehow his historiography. Well, it went ... And I didn’t think before.
                  2. kalibr
                    25 November 2022 15: 18
                    +1
                    Quote: Comrade
                    And he was caught by the church in sodomy?

                    And what about this? Enough of one wearing clothes that are not of the same gender. And Jeanne was again accused of falling into heresy precisely on the basis of the fact that she put on men's clothes. But by the way, the earlier the church was more tolerant. And some early French king even passed a law forbidding the persecution of witches ... I had a material on the persecution of witches here - there. And the most intolerant were not the Catholics, but the Protestants of the XNUMXth century.
                    1. Comrade
                      Comrade 25 November 2022 16: 23
                      0
                      Quote: kalibr
                      the most intolerant were just not Catholics, but Protestants of the XNUMXth century

                      Yes, yes.
                      In the persecution of dissidents in cruelty and inexorability, they will shut up any inquisition by the belt.
                      This is clearly seen today in countries professing a "liberal-democratic" religion.
  5. Yorick
    Yorick 24 November 2022 09: 47
    +4
    Today we have at our disposal the crown of St. Wenceslas - as it is officially called, which is made of gold weighing from 21 to 22 carats

    The crown weighs 2,358 kg, and carats are a test. But this example is not very successful for this article. The crown of St. Wenceslas is one of the state regalia of the Czech crown. Such crowns are usually created according to other canons, which are very different from those according to which heraldic crowns are created.
  6. depressant
    depressant 24 November 2022 10: 20
    +2
    Most of the helmets were turned with the front part to the right, that is, in the direction of "dexter". A helmet turned backwards, or "sinister", indicated the illegitimacy of its owner.

    Here's how to understand it?
    Do you want to see through the helmet outside?
    Depending on who you are, look only to the right, well, or only to the left. If you want to see more, turn around, otherwise you will miss a lot. So what?
    wassat )))
    1. kalibr
      24 November 2022 11: 06
      +5
      Quote: depressant
      So what?

      The "left hand" rule was in effect. She has a shield on. The beast on the shield or helmet always looks to the right, that is, at the muzzle of the horse - at the enemy. If to the left, then back, with the muzzle on the horse's back, that is, the beast will be called "cowardly", and the helmet will denote "illegitimate".
      1. depressant
        depressant 24 November 2022 12: 45
        +2
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, it's time to notice that I'm stupid! It is clear about the beast on the shield, but the topic of the helmet remained misunderstood. But I will not insist, I will not demand "hay-straw", I will pretend that everything is fine. This is so as not to seem completely mentally retarded.
        There is another question.
        Was it possible, being illegitimate, to use an "inappropriate" shield? Are there cases of severe punishments? This is me to the participants of the discussion. To distract from the Chamber of Weights and Measures. And then, in my opinion, everyone is stuck there and cannot find the door)))
        1. kalibr
          24 November 2022 12: 51
          +3
          Quote: depressant
          Are there cases of severe punishments?

          For using someone else's coat of arms, that is, a shield at a tournament (if it was opened!) Then the offender was put astride the top board of the fence (horizontal and not very wide!). And those caught in deceit "so" were punished by the fact that they removed their spurs on a dunghill, broke the shield, put the knight in a coffin, took it to the church and buried it there as if dead. Then they announced that he was a swindler - messengers were sent to all places ... After that, he became no one ...
          1. depressant
            depressant 24 November 2022 13: 50
            +1
            Good method!
            I liked it about the dunghill. Symbolically!
          2. lisikat2
            lisikat2 24 November 2022 18: 25
            +2
            "became nobody" hard. After that, to the guilty one, either into the loop or run away to where they don’t know him
  7. lisikat2
    lisikat2 24 November 2022 10: 33
    +3
    I wish you all a good day.
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, you mentioned: “Secrets of the Burgundy Court” is one of those historical films that I can watch many times.
    Such films: 1 "Secrets of the Burgundy Court"
    2) "Hunchback" (there is a voice acting option: "Aurora")
    3) "Gone with the wind"
    4 ("Ivanhoe" (1988)
    5) "Knight's castle"
    6) "Captain"
    7) "Quentin Dorward"
    8) "Fanfan tulip" (1991)
    Their new ones: "Silver" (2008 "Sverdlovsk Studio")
    In these films, a great number: acting, story and exciting plot.
    1. kalibr
      24 November 2022 11: 02
      +4
      Quote from lisikat2
      exciting plot.

      Add THE THREE MUSKETEERS by Bernard Borderie in 1961 with the charming Mylène Damongeot as Milady.
      1. depressant
        depressant 24 November 2022 12: 50
        +2
        Touching Mylene Demongeo...
        A few years ago I found her photo on the net - how she has aged! Wrinkles, gray hair ... And she explained. Like, I don’t want to look younger than my natural age, because this is indecent. Worthy woman! Unlike.
      2. lisikat2
        lisikat2 24 November 2022 13: 28
        +2
        I noticed: films shot before my birth or in the first 5 years after, are of better quality.
        Somehow I found on the net, generally "prehistoric": pre-war adaptations of Jules Verne, they have little in common with the text, but I watched with pleasure
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 24 November 2022 14: 09
          +2
          Quite a starting point - your fifth anniversary. You can switch to a new chronological system.
          1. lisikat2
            lisikat2 24 November 2022 17: 42
            +2
            Consider me allowed.
            Seriously, my childhood is the 90s. A very difficult period, but everything is known in comparison
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 24 November 2022 18: 49
              +1
              Thank you. I fully imagine the type of people born in the 80s - 90s. Very different.
  8. north 2
    north 2 24 November 2022 11: 26
    +4
    The St. Wenceslas crown was not only never worn on a marching helmet of armor. It was a purely coronation regalia with special magical properties. Charles IV brought her to the form in which she is today, not just because of nothing to do. Charles changed the crown of St. Wenceslas from the original model not in the direction of wealth, but in the direction of layout, trying to encrypt in the crown the secret meaning described in the Revelation of John the Theologian of Heaven Jerusalem. Charles believed that, according to the Revelation of John the Theologian, the Heavenly Jerusalem should be Karlstejn Castle, which was built by Charles IV not at all for defensive and not for representative functions.
    By the way, the Pope also agreed with Charles IV about the sacrament of the crown of St. Wenceslas and, under the threat of excommunication from the Church, forbade the crown to alienate, pledge or sell. The same awaited those who would steal the crown of St. Wenceslas.
    But the Gauleiter of Bohemia, Heydrich, after the occupation of the Czech Republic during WWII, ignored this. He prepared the crown so that Germany would get it, tried it on and put it on his head and showed off in front of photographers. Yema was told not to do this, you would die. I didn’t listen. Well, they banged him a year later ...
    ,
    1. kalibr
      24 November 2022 11: 53
      +2
      Quote: north 2
      not only never worn on a marching helmet of armor.

      So it is written about it. It is indicated that the year of its creation, 1384, just corresponds to the fashion for crowns. So some crowns could look like her. And all...
  9. lisikat2
    lisikat2 24 November 2022 11: 43
    +1
    "kleinod" (German Kleinod) "treasure, jewel"
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, I mainly know this topic (heraldry) from the novel, and you know it deeper.
    What do you think Ligtengstein's Venus should symbolize?
    Beauty and sophistication versus rudeness?
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 24 November 2022 11: 55
      +7
      Quote from lisikat2
      what should Venus symbolize, according to Ligtengtenstein?

      It is possible that he was a rare womanizer. smile
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 24 November 2022 12: 14
        +4
        It is possible that he was a rare womanizer.

        And his mantle was probably inlaid not with crosses, lilies, flowers, rhinestones, but with oblong symbols according to Freud. laughing
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 24 November 2022 13: 00
          +4
          Hi, Nikolay! smile

          And his mantle was probably inlaid not with crosses, lilies, flowers, rhinestones, but with oblong symbols according to Freud.


          I don't know about the mantle, but the helmet could look something like this. wink

          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 24 November 2022 14: 11
            +5
            Friend of Mars, Bacchus and Venus,
            Here Lunin boldly offered
            Its drastic measures
            And muttered with inspiration.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 24 November 2022 14: 54
              +3

              Eternal misfortunes are in power:
              How to reason with a rebel?
              There is no consent to repentance -
              Crucifixion and Passion of Christ
              Your destiny promises you.


              Good afternoon, Sergey! smile
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 24 November 2022 16: 12
                +3
                Good afternoon, Konstantin!

                Obedience is boring; rebellion is impossible; the outcome of the struggle is doubtful.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 24 November 2022 16: 32
                  +4
                  I don’t moo, I don’t calve, I’m all over - like cotton wool.
                  We need to beat something - it's time!
                  What to beat? Rook - scary
                  Right in the jaw - it seems a little early,
                  Uncomfortable somehow - the first game.


                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 24 November 2022 17: 21
                    +3

                    ... But we did not live happily with her in the castle:
                    The king sent on a campaign for hundreds of long days, -
                    My ideal is not waiting for me
                    because he is a king, and I am a vassal, -
                    And it's too early, apparently, to spit on the kings!
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 24 November 2022 18: 10
                      +2
                      . They galloped side by side on the soft grass - the Princess and the man who loved animals.

                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 24 November 2022 18: 47
                        +2
                        The princess lives in a communal apartment
                        Above the noisy Garden Ring.
                        Black jackdaws descend at night
                        To the road frozen in lead.
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 24 November 2022 19: 01
                        +2
                        My joy is living
                        In a high tower
                        And in the tower that tall
                        No entry for anyone
                        And in the tower that tall
                        No entry for anyone

                      3. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 24 November 2022 19: 09
                        +2

                        - Well, father, are there any brides in your city?
                        - To whom the mare is the bride.
                        - I have no more questions!
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 24 November 2022 19: 59
                        +1
                        On the steppe scorched by the heat
                        Among the high feather grasses
                        Semen Mikhailovich Budyonny
                        Ride on a red mare.
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 24 November 2022 20: 10
                        +2
                        "Hey, trawl-wait!
                        What a red girl,
                        Lived in the basement
                        I'd squat down then
                        Squat at the window
                        We would have cooed until the morning!" (C)
                      6. Catfish
                        Catfish 24 November 2022 21: 41
                        +2
                        "Drink kvass in damp cellars,
                        I will pray to God
                        Give me first class
                        And if possible - luxury "(c)
                    2. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 24 November 2022 20: 06
                      +1
                      "Farewell, Paris! Farewell, pies!" (FROM)
                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 24 November 2022 21: 56
                        +1
                        I do not like the Court, but in Rome I am a courtier,
                        I love freedom, but I must be a slave,
                        I love directness - I opened my house to flatterers,
                        Acquisition is the enemy - I serve shameful selfishness.
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 24 November 2022 22: 06
                        +1
                        "If it fell to be born in the empire,
                        Better to live in a remote province, by the sea "(C)
                      3. kalibr
                        24 November 2022 22: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        fell out

                        Anton! I wrote to you...
                      4. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 24 November 2022 22: 47
                        +1

                        They lived in a dilapidated dugout
                        Exactly thirty years and three years.
        2. astra wild2
          astra wild2 24 November 2022 14: 43
          +3
          Mikhail, Nikolai, if we discard all vulgarity, why not assume: he wore Venus, in honor of the "lady of the heart"? Among the knights it was in the order of things to glorify your lady
          Don Quixote praised Dulcinea.
          And Zbyshko, for his lady of the heart, brought peacock feathers
          Ligtenstein decided to stand out and Venus on the helmet
          1. kalibr
            24 November 2022 15: 45
            +1
            Quote: Astra wild2
            in honor of the "lady of the heart"

            He wore it. And even at her request he cut off half his lips! He sent her a severed finger as a gift ...
            1. lisikat2
              lisikat2 24 November 2022 18: 31
              +1
              "I cut off half my lips" I live well with my Vatilka, but if I said about my lip ...
              I would suggest you cut yourself.
              Tell me about him?
              1. kalibr
                24 November 2022 20: 30
                0
                Quote from lisikat2
                Tell me about him?

                Katyusha, type on the web: Ulrich von Lichtenschnein. Military review. V. Shpakovsky - and the material will open to you. Why should I repeat it?
            2. astra wild2
              astra wild2 24 November 2022 19: 42
              0
              Vyacheslav Olegovich, and the modern principality of Liechtenstein, is not connected with it in any way?
              Let's say: the hereditary possessions of the Liechtenstein family. After all, he had heirs
              1. kalibr
                24 November 2022 20: 31
                +1
                Quote: Astra wild2
                After all, he had heirs

                He was Marshal of Styria, and this is in Germany. I can't say more for now...
          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 24 November 2022 17: 43
            +1
            Quote: Astra wild2
            if you drop all the vulgarity

            Let's try, although if she was there, then just a little bit. wink
            Ulrich lived in the XNUMXth century. Before the Renaissance, oh, how far away, all around is gloomy Catholicism, preaching asceticism and abstinence as the highest virtues. Love is, first of all, love for God, the most revered woman (and almost the only one) is the Virgin Mary.
            Marriage and love are completely different things and have nothing to do with each other. The concept of "marriage" is much closer to the concepts of "property", "duties", "debt", etc.
            There was also - at that time there was already - courtly love, which had nothing to do with carnal pleasures: poems, songs, feats, dedications and admiration for the lady. A sort of game according to certain rules, which fits perfectly into the ideas of Christian morality.
            What we call the word "love" now then was called lust, fornication and was not encouraged at all, because it's not good - Christ suffered, and you are enjoying here. Everyone should suffer and repent, and if they copulate, then without pleasure.
            All Greek, Roman gods, like Odins, Peruns and other Yarils, were considered demons like goblin, kikimor, brownies and similar evil spirits. Venus was among these demons, which is quite natural, especially if you take into account her "specialization" and rich intimate "biography".
            In such an environment, likening your lady to Venus, let's say, was a very bold step. This meant declaring her, in fact, a harlot, thereby inflicting a mortal insult. For this, it was possible to grab quite decently, both from the lady herself and from her relatives, the king and the church. If we take it as a fact that Venus was on Ulrich's helmet, then we automatically exclude service to a beautiful lady from the list of his possible motives for choosing this figure.
            Well, what then?
            Venus in those days is a symbol of carnal love. The simplest option - Ulrich proclaimed the ministry of carnal love. He was a very extravagant person, with courtly love he was not very lucky - sheer humiliation - so why waste time. And the service to Venus is not at all so burdensome, even, I would say, pleasant. In any case, she definitely does not require self-mutilation.
            Well, if the knight said - the knight did. You can probably serve carnal love in different ways, but the easiest and most effective way, it seems to me, is to intensively engage in this very love, clearly demonstrating to others how good and pleasant it is. Moreover, the world around a noble person at that time presented all the possibilities for this. smile
            However, I am not very familiar with Ulrich's biography and have not come across his "Don Juan list", so I interpret the presence of Venus on his helmet only presumably.
            1. kalibr
              24 November 2022 20: 38
              +3
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              purely conjectural

              He dressed up in a woman's dress and entered the cities in such a form. I broke 307 copies at tournaments in honor of my lady. The ladies, when he passed through the city - and he rode with pomp, tore off the golden fingers from his fingers and threw them under his horse's feet - the hat was filled! And the church turned a blind eye to all this! Then he dressed up as King Arthur, and dressed up his servants as knights of the Round Table. He had a wife and I think 4 children. And she had nothing against his "love" for the "Lady of the Heart" (given how many ransoms for horses and weapons he brought from his voyages!). Wrote books about chivalry, but they were laughed at
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 24 November 2022 21: 56
                +3
                I read the article, Vyacheslav Olegovich, I just considered it immodest to present its content here. smile
                1. kalibr
                  24 November 2022 22: 16
                  +2
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  I read the article

                  Well, now you all know...
      2. depressant
        depressant 24 November 2022 12: 58
        +3
        Oh!...
        It is possible that he was a rare womanizer

        Haven't laughed so hard in a long time!
        Thanks Misha! love )))
        Perhaps my outburst of laughter was caused by the contrast between the bombast, the exaggerated seriousness of the conversation, and the simple, down to earth consideration.
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 24 November 2022 13: 02
          +4
          I'm really glad that I managed to amuse you. smile
          Although I myself am not up to fun, alas. My world has been shattered, as I reported in the comment below.
          smile
    2. kalibr
      24 November 2022 11: 55
      +4
      Liechtenstein was a very peculiar person. I had material about him at VO. Dial Ulrich von Liechtenstein, VO V. Shpakovsky and you will receive it and read about all the eccentricity!
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 24 November 2022 12: 29
        +4
        I remember that he was a truly distinguished eccentric and understood "serving the ladies" somewhat ... extravagantly. smile
        I'll look at the article.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 24 November 2022 12: 43
        +3
        Good afternoon, Vyacheslav and thank you for the beautiful review! good

        Never mind petty nit-picking, it's all "odorless dust" and I'm very sorry that some of our members of the forum turned out to be so vindictive. We need to live together, as the cat Leopold said there. smile


        Liechtenstein was a very peculiar person.


        Yes, and to put it mildly - to put a woman almost in life size on your helmet - you had to think of it before! laughing
        I wonder how it was attached to his head, technically, I mean? "Gentlemen officers, be silent !!! (c)))))))))))))))))))) wassat
        1. depressant
          depressant 24 November 2022 13: 45
          +2
          Kostya, some put a "woman" around their necks, and nothing - they endure and drag the burden all their lives to the whistle of a whip.
          Glad to see you love )))
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 24 November 2022 14: 01
            +4
            I'm glad to meet you too. smile

            some put themselves "babu"


            Unfortunately, you are right, this is observed all the time, and many live together as if out of habit, or "for the sake of the children", these people do not cause sympathy in me.

        2. astra wild2
          astra wild2 24 November 2022 14: 31
          +4
          "Guys, let's live together" has become our motto.
          "Small" (height-153cm, and her husband's 191cm) printed out on a printer, Leopold and put it on the door .. Neighbors, our apartment, are already called: "Cat's house"
    3. Eule
      Eule 24 November 2022 20: 10
      +2
      Quote from lisikat2
      Kleinod

      According to the spelling rules in Hochdeutsche (Berlin dialect), Kleinod is pronounced, although sometimes in some parts of Germany Klein can be pronounced as Klein, although this is more Austrian, and the Viennese dialect.
  10. Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 24 November 2022 12: 57
    +7
    But I was interested in the topic of the article, I wanted to know a little more and then a surprise awaited me. smile
    I don’t know about anyone, but for me the word “crown” has always been clearly associated with a metal flat hoop with obligatory teeth along the upper edge. Figushki! It turns out that the crown is, in fact, the crown, that is, the hoop itself, and the teeth are just a form of its decor, and not the most common.
    Further: for some reason I thought that the crown is something sacred, something that is protected and passed down from generation to generation, proud of its antiquity, belonging to eminent ancestors ... I thought that the loss of such a relic is a serious tragedy and that such cases can be counted on the fingers.
    Ha!
    Crowns in the Middle Ages, apparently, were just consumables. They were made, remade, broken, melted down and made new, without worrying about it at all. Princesses with their crowns were sent to marry in another country, the crowns were sold, given and re-gifted. Crowns that are more than a thousand years old and that have survived to this day can be counted on the fingers and they survived, mostly by accident. And if, rummaging through the images of royal persons, you can find such that the father and son are depicted in the same crown, then finding a grandfather, father and grandson in the same crown is already a hard effort.
    In short, the world will never be the same for me.
    The battle crown of Richard III cut at the Battle of Bosworth is not at all an exceptional case, rare in its symbolism, drama and significance, but a passing episode, just "another brick in the wall", nothing more. crying
    I'll go for a smoke, pour a cup of strong tea with viburnum and I'll relive my discoveries, sniffling.
    smile
    1. depressant
      depressant 24 November 2022 13: 24
      +3
      Misha!!!!!
      I'm already crying with laughter, sympathizing mercilessly!

      By the way... I was convinced of the same thing as you.
      Something is faintly remembered about the crown worn by the late Elizabeth. Reluctance to surf the net. I hope the tea calms you down. And then the crafty Vyacheslav Olegovich recommends pills in such cases.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 24 November 2022 13: 40
        +5
        Good afternoon, Luda. love

        Something is faintly remembered about the crown worn by the late Elizabeth.


        Did you mean this crown? The one that "emigrated" to England from Russia?

        1. astra wild2
          astra wild2 24 November 2022 14: 21
          +1
          Uncle Kostya, I haven't talked to you for a long time, for various reasons.
          If I'm not mistaken, on the left, a photograph of Alexandra Fedorovna, the wife of Nikolai2, and about the "emigrated" crown. The only thing that comes to mind is "the crown of the Russian empire or the new adventures of the elusive avengers"
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 24 November 2022 14: 46
            +5
            Good afternoon, Vera. smile

            adventures of the elusive avengers


            It's more of an "adventure of the elusive crown". Elusive for Russia, of course. request
        2. depressant
          depressant 24 November 2022 14: 43
          +2
          "emigrated" to England from Russia?


          Yes, Kostya, this one.
          And, you know, in Misha's story about his feelings about the short life of the crown, I saw a lot of sense.
          Crown ... How many hopes merged in this word! From father to son, from son to grandson, from grandson to great-grandson... From generation to generation, the skills of governing the people, ways of maintaining the integrity of the territory in conditions that change from decade to decade, taking into account technological revolutions and the emergence of new political classes, have been improved. Skills to serve the God-given earth. After all, they are the anointed ones. Only the mind had to be. And a smaller area.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 24 November 2022 16: 11
            +1
            Crown ... How many hopes merged in this word!


            The crown ... Someone suits the crown, but for someone ... well, it suits very well. laughing

      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 24 November 2022 14: 23
        +4
        Quote: depressant
        pills

        Save me, lord. Only tea - black, with lemon and mint, with viburnum or cranberries.
        And I don’t really know anything about Elizabeth’s crown - it’s not the Middle Ages, she’s all a solid remake. smile
        I read somewhere that the warehouse of English crowns was sent to the furnace by Cromwell, as a symbol of autocracy and all sorts of other vile things, he didn’t leave a single one, the brat. smile And the French crowns were sent into the same furnace by the revolution. But there is something left, apparently too many of them were different. I read about it somewhere, but is it true, as our ancestors wrote in the annals, "God knows." smile
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 24 November 2022 15: 26
          +3
          Only tea - black, with lemon and mint, with viburnum or cranberries.

          Oh, modesty itself! Something I don’t remember that we drank tea at least once ... laughing Or "is it different"? wink By the way, your viburnum is awesome! good drinks
          Well, this tea. One hundred grams of "bulbash cranberry" - and good! drinks
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 24 November 2022 15: 52
            +2
            Something I don’t remember that we drank tea at least once ...
            They drank, 2 times, in "shavuha" on the "Balty".
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 24 November 2022 16: 00
              +3
              They drank, 2 times, in "shavuha" on the "Balty".

              Similarly, I forgot.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 24 November 2022 13: 42
      +5
      I will pour a cup of strong tea with viburnum and I will experience my discoveries,


      It will not help, the real tragedy is poured into others. drinks

      Hi Michael! smile
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 24 November 2022 14: 19
        +5
        Hello, Uncle Kostya.
        I drank some tea, I felt better. smile Well, fuck these crowns. Why should I worry about them - I never had a crown, never will and don't need to. laughing
        And out of grief, I don’t drink - only with joy, or after a hard day I can tin half a glass to sleep better. smile drinks
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 24 November 2022 14: 49
          +5
          And with grief I don’t drink - only with joy,


          Well, right, alcohol does not change the mood, but only exacerbates the existing one. smile drinks

      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 24 November 2022 19: 46
        +1
        the real tragedy is poured onto others.
        Exactly! "The theater begins with a buffet!")))
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 24 November 2022 20: 01
          +1
          All life is a theater, and we are its actors,
          Everyone has their own role in this world.
          We ourselves are directors and directors ourselves,
          Your fate, your sadness and pain.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 24 November 2022 20: 14
            +2
            "Do you love theater the way I love it?" (WITH)
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 24 November 2022 20: 35
              +1

              We wander all over the earth
              We don't look at the weather.
              Where we have to spend the night
              What do we have to eat.
              Theatrical stage
              For vagrants like us
              fresh planed boards,
              Curtains on nails.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 24 November 2022 20: 39
                +1
                "It's good to be a kitty,
                Good dog
                Where I want - pee
                Where I want, I poop."
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 24 November 2022 21: 28
                  +3
                  "Not only fluffy cats
                  Walking along the moonlit path
                  But also shaggy males
                  Do not mind lying in the moon dust. "(C) smile
    3. Korsar4
      Korsar4 24 November 2022 14: 13
      +6
      So a wreath of dandelions is quite a crown. I have one of my favorite photos. But the wreath is more interesting there.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 24 November 2022 14: 42
        +6
        Quote: Korsar4
        a wreath of dandelions - quite a crown

        Again, what once read comes to mind, they say, Charlemagne, after some battle, crowned distinguished comrades-in-arms with wreaths of strawberries with red berries. Since then, as if, ducal or county crowns have been stylized as these wreaths with sharp petals and small gold balls. I must say right away that I do not know the historical examples of such crowns. For what I bought - for that I sell, but I like the legend itself. A dozen proud gloomy male warriors, and in fact, professional killers, who have just wiped their swords on the grass from the blood of some Saxons or Avars, stand near a large fire, in strawberry wreaths on their shaggy heads, happy as children ... smile
      2. depressant
        depressant 24 November 2022 14: 50
        +2
        I suspect that the wreath is not you.
        Mighty Sergey, and...
        How is Yesenin doing?
        "In a white corolla of roses
        Ahead of Jesus Christ "(c)
        That's if I didn't misread the quote.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 24 November 2022 16: 14
          +4
          Nevertheless, there was a case - and played along with this image.

          If there is an opportunity to hooligan - always!
        2. Fat
          Fat 24 November 2022 17: 22
          +4
          hi Hello Ludmila. They misquoted the quote. This is Blok, "twelve"
          "Wind biting!
          The frost is not far behind!
          And bourgeois at the crossroads
          He hid his nose in the collar.
          And who is this? - Long hair
          And he says in a low voice:
          - Traitors!
          - Russia is dead!
          Must be a writer
          Vitiya...
          And there is the long-haired one -
          Sideways and behind the snowdrift ...
          What is not fun today
          Comrade pop?"
          1. lisikat2
            lisikat2 24 November 2022 18: 00
            0
            Andrei Borisovich (?) Do you know Makovsky?! I read something at school "a conversation with the sun", "left, left". He doesn't interest me anymore.
            Yesenin above
            1. Fat
              Fat 24 November 2022 18: 28
              +3
              hi hello Catherine. heard smile
              "Well Yesenin,
              masculine pack.
              Laugh!
              cow
              in laika gloves.
              Once you listen...
              but it's from the choir!
              Balalaika!
              ...
              True,
              Yes
              we
              Aseev
              Kolka.
              This one can.
              He has a grip
              mine." V. Mayakovsky. "Jubilee"
          2. depressant
            depressant 24 November 2022 18: 40
            +2
            . They misquoted the quote. This is Blok, "twelve"

            Hello Andrey Borisovich! )))
            I misrepresented the author, I misrepresented!
            And what do you want from a person who has survived vaccination and revaccination, but is categorically not adapted to anything like that. Sometimes I even forget my own name. Then I remember and am indignant: "Well, they called it! No, that Medusa Gorgon ..."
          3. Catfish
            Catfish 24 November 2022 20: 06
            +2
            The crown flew to pieces
            There is no power, no throne.
            The life of Russia and laws -
            All to hell!
            And we, as if driven into holes,
            Like caught thieves
            Only blood alone with shame
            In half.


            Hi Andrew! smile
            1. Fat
              Fat 24 November 2022 20: 45
              +2
              Gotta
              so that the poet
              and in life was a master.
              We are strong
              like alcohol in Poltava damask.

              Greetings, Konstantin. yes
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 24 November 2022 20: 57
                +2
                Oppanki, Borisych! And the game has hooked you!
              2. Catfish
                Catfish 24 November 2022 21: 34
                +3
                We are strong
                like alcohol in Poltava damask.

                That's for sure!!! laughing drinks
        3. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 24 November 2022 20: 53
          +3
          How is Yesenin doing?
          "In a white corolla of roses
          Ahead of Jesus Christ "(c)
          That's if I didn't misread the quote.
          Good evening, Lyudmila. They misrepresented. This is Block, "12".
          1. depressant
            depressant 24 November 2022 23: 34
            +2
            They misrepresented. This is Block, "12".

            Well, no one passed! )))
            What is the level of stress in the community from my forgetfulness! It seems to be taken as a personal insult. Meanwhile, I have publicly repented.
            I will add that at one time (I explain, once) the belonging of these Siikhs to Blok was incredibly surprising.
            Please accept my sincere apologies for the trauma you have suffered. wassat )))
            Good night and good dreams!
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 25 November 2022 08: 17
              +3
              Come on you take offense, Lyudmila. I won't dwell on such trifles anymore. I, too, at one time, when I passed Blok at school, was surprised by his image of the Revolution. But this is me from the thoughtlessness of that time. How are your mathematical studies?
              1. depressant
                depressant 25 November 2022 10: 56
                +2
                How are your mathematical studies?

                Good morning!
                The research is over, the most difficult thing for me is to clearly state from the drafts. The situation interferes, its cynicism goes off scale, distracts, everything is painful, because the future is not defined.
                I have long ceased to be offended by anyone. Resentment in our time is an unaffordable luxury. And solidarity is allowed.
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 25 November 2022 18: 47
                  +1
                  Research completed
                  This makes me happy. Rather, refine it so that even a student of a technical university understands, not only from the MehMat. Recently, I have often been supported by the fact that despondency is one of the deadly sins. Remembering this, I struggle with despondency.
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 25 November 2022 19: 44
                    +2
                    I struggle with sadness.

                    Yes, you know what...
                    Here, I am finalizing and catching myself thinking that the idea came to the wrong head. Not taken from the ceiling, it is absolutely its own, 100% novelty, but perhaps that is why - a stupor! How did I think of this before, how to explain this or, say, that one? There was a high impulse of intuition, when somewhere in the subconscious, thousands of considerations intertwined into one thing, thousands more into another, and so on. And from these final bundles, the final idea was formed. But an explanation, even to oneself, requires extracting these intermediate considerations, these bundles into bundles, and they ... and they do not want to be extracted! Life gets in the way.
                    No, I'm not discouraged. I even force myself to enjoy the little things. And it has become a habit.
      3. Catfish
        Catfish 24 November 2022 20: 04
        +4
        a wreath of dandelions is quite a crown.


        And dandelion wine is quite a drink, whoever has tried knows it. smile
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 24 November 2022 22: 00
          +3
          Each of us is quite a Bradbury. And sometimes Hemingway.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 24 November 2022 23: 03
            +3
            Too bad no one reads. smile

            Hooray site administration !!!!
            soldier
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 24 November 2022 23: 06
              +3
              Reading. And sometimes we go well-read, well-read.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 24 November 2022 23: 55
                +4
                And sometimes we go well-read, well-read.




                Even though I haven't "read enough", I'm going to bed. smile
                Good night, Sergei. yes
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 25 November 2022 00: 29
                  +3
                  Good night, Konstantin!

                  Got carried away with all sorts of nonsense. And adult children amuse themselves.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 25 November 2022 12: 29
                    +2
                    Communication is not nonsense, if you mean it, it saves you from loneliness. And then by nine in the evening everyone had already scattered to the beds, both Masha and the cat. smile
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 25 November 2022 17: 19
                      +2
                      No, not about that. Communication is not nonsense. I share and support.
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 25 November 2022 17: 32
                        +5
                        Jump on Maxim to Shpakovsky, everything is not bad there. smile
                      2. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 25 November 2022 18: 21
                        +2
                        Maybe much later in the evening. So far, only nodding is obtained.
                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 25 November 2022 18: 35
                        +3
                        Maybe much later in the evening. So far, only nodding is obtained.


                        Sure, see you. smile
  11. astra wild2
    astra wild2 24 November 2022 14: 11
    +4
    "Sinister" indicated illegitimacy "in one of Benzoni's novels, they mention:" the great bastard "his coat of arms crossed: a vertical black stripe.
    1. kalibr
      24 November 2022 15: 51
      +3
      Quote: Astra wild2
      his coat of arms was crossed by a vertical black stripe.

      This is one way to show this position. More often from right to left. But there were several ways...
      1. lisikat2
        lisikat2 24 November 2022 17: 54
        +2
        So, is it true that Benzoni studied that era well?
  12. vladcub
    vladcub 24 November 2022 16: 44
    +2
    "open helmet" out of opposition: I'm not a knight of a royal family, what should I fight with an open visor.
    Okay, I have tugriks-marks, Anton, I don’t remember what the then “euro” was called, but if in battle I had such a “toad” that I don’t dare to wear one?
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 24 November 2022 17: 47
      +2
      Slava, you are confusing real hats and heraldic ones.
      In battle, wear whatever you want - at least the chamber pot of the wife-baroness with granddaughter's diapers instead of a balaclava, but on the coat of arms - only what is required by status. smile
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 24 November 2022 19: 19
        +3
        Perhaps, but you were a little mistaken: Cromwell did not destroy all the crowns.
        Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is a witness
        Do you remember
        - Who owned it?
        - The one who left.
        - To whom does it belong?
        - Who will come
        "Rite of the House of Mesmer"
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 24 November 2022 20: 30
          +2
          It's not me, it's Cromwell's mistake... smile
          By the way, the Musgrave family really existed, and, as far as I understand, it still exists, I don’t know just in what form. And in the XV century. during the Wars of the Roses, it was a gentry family from Westmoreland, their lords were the Nevilles of Rabbi, then they served Richard III until his death, after I don’t know.
          There is a novel by Simone Vilar dedicated to the Wars of the Roses, a novel so-so, I read it in my youth, when I clutched at everything related to this topic, and so the main character also wore such a surname there.
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 24 November 2022 20: 26
      +2
      I don’t remember what the then “euro” was called
      Let's just say that the most trusted at that time was "maravedi", minted in the Spanish Caliphate.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 25 November 2022 06: 57
        +2
        Livres, ecu, thalers and prch - did they go later?
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 25 November 2022 07: 18
          +2
          Everything is much easier. The Moors did not mint counterfeit coins.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 25 November 2022 11: 56
            +2
            Barbarians. What to take from them, except for a full-fledged coin.
            1. Fat
              Fat 25 November 2022 19: 51
              +1
              hi Greetings, Sergey. "Haram zulmi" - cut coins and reduce the amount of gold in a coin in a different way. The one who committed haram zulmi and swore not to commit it in the future will be forgiven by Allah only if the victim forgives. Utter barbarians! Infidels! wassat
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 25 November 2022 22: 17
                +1
                Greetings, Andrey! It's good when people are limited by something.

                And before age limits them.
  13. lisikat2
    lisikat2 24 November 2022 17: 48
    +1
    "ran away from the city" if he survived, he would have to return home later