Military Review

The evolution of pressure on the brain in Russia

455
The evolution of pressure on the brain in Russia

Recently, our information field is simply overflowing with various information, which is becoming more and more difficult to handle. The enemy is trying very hard to hit the brains of the Russian layman as hard as possible in order to put confusion and chaos in their heads. And get certain dividends from this.


Smolensk regiment


Let's go in order. The first case, which I would like to point out, has already been elevated to the rank of fake and its existence has been refuted by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation itself. Personally, I was shocked, because MO was born with an official statement just a week after the video was released. When Smolensk deputies rushed to make requests to all instances. And so, probably, as always, they would have remained silent.

So, the case was with allegedly mobilized from the Smolensk 359th regiment, who for two weeks built fortifications on the left bank of the Dnieper, and then, having fallen under mortar fire from that bank, retreated. They were motivated by the fact that they did not have communications, artillery support, and personal weapons, consisting of Kalashnikov assault rifles and Mosin rifles, they could not offer any resistance. Not wanting to die just like that, they moved away and began to appeal to the public.

Appeal of the soldiers of the 359th regiment

What bothers me at first is not even what I hear, but what I see. And I see a crowd of variegated and disgustingly dressed people. Is this the Russian army? Seriously? Excuse me, in my Voronezh homeless people often look better in terms of clothing. These are some kind of partisans, excuse me, living off what they get. And not necessarily in combat.

359 Smolensk Motorized Rifle Regiment denied the "stuffing" of the Ukrainian media

No, of course, not everywhere we have such a horror going on. Here, in a beautifully filmed and edited video from the Ministry of Defense, which shows the Tula mobilized, who speak beautiful and correct words, there is complete order with the equipment.

Tula mobilized

Agree, not everything is in order in our army, the problems are through the roof, and even the appearance of such partisans is possible. It seems like someone bought something - he went in that.

However, we will return to the issue of equipment. But in our case, the Ukrainian side went too far. She didn’t show a single Mosin rifle, there are a couple of people with machine guns in the video - that’s all. The rest, it turns out, just dropped their weapons and went light?

Well, it’s understandable, after the Ukrainians have collected so much equipment under the “Russian Lend-Lease”, it seems like no one should be surprised at the abandoned machine guns and rifles. But - overkill.

It is clear that the video of normally dressed fighters "came" normally and the situation was relatively discharged. But there was some tension.

Voronezh battalion


Next was Voronezh. There, information was thrown into local social networks that a certain "Voronezh battalion" without any special preparation was thrown to Krasny Liman and almost all of them died there. They wrote that 21 people out of more than 400 survived.

Local women, whose husbands were mobilized, were not only "bombed", they were simply torn to the British flag and they took the governor's office by storm. Weekend, mind you. Governor Gusev arrived at the office, met with the residents and relatively defused the situation. At least the screaming and screaming stopped for a while.

And then colder heads (naturally, not from among the employees of the Ministry of Defense) dug up information that there was no "Voronezh battalion". From the centers of collection and assembly (including the mentioned Boguchar), a maximum of company formations left. To completely different training centers, this was confirmed by officers from among the mobilized, who completed these companies in Boguchar.

The "Voronezh Battalion" very quietly ceased to exist.

Article 332 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation


After information appeared that the mobilized Alexander Leshkov, who "ran into" the lieutenant colonel, who did not want to fulfill his official duties, was taken into custody by the decision of the Odintsovo garrison military court and will stay there until January 14, 2023, with the prospect of receiving up to 15 years in prison, you should not be surprised at all.

It is clear that a hand push will be qualified as inflicting severe beatings on Mr. Lieutenant Colonel on duty and our fair court will send Leshkov to jail. In fact, for the fact that he wished that he and his comrades were properly prepared for battles. Not quite in the correct form, but nonetheless.

In general, many today say that "there is no order in the army and it must be restored." I agree. The question is who will do it and how?

Here, in fact, the material for which everything was started. It is also not entirely unambiguous, however, it causes much less doubt than the first video from the "Smolensk".

Belgorod

The video appears to show the arrest of two servicemen for refusing to comply with the order to leave for the war zone. The prosecutor's office opened criminal cases under article 332 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, and the military police indicatively so twisted the fighters right in front of the ranks.

Here, another "homeless package" of hastily dressed mobilized in what causes doubt.




No, I have absolutely no doubt that they are ours. Not only are our smartly pretended military policemen, the UAZ "Patriot" - a prisoner carrier with the numbers of the Western Military District ours, but I have been to this unit more than once in those days when the Western Military District was still collaborating with independent media. There were such times, so it was possible to identify the place.


Of course, variegatedly dressed goners, who generally lack the slightest combat training, act as an excellent backdrop for the military police. You can rejoice looking at the perfectly fitted equipment, good body armor (obviously they didn’t buy it themselves) and the dexterity with which they twist the arms of the mobilized. The training of our military police is encouraging.


In general, such videos, the purpose of which is clearly to show those who still doubt anything that they do not have much choice. And failure to comply with orders, desertion, rudeness - yes, they need to be fought, even with such methods.

True, from the soundtrack of the video it is completely impossible to understand what this gentleman in sneakers from the military prosecutor's office is saying there. And it would be worth it, those for whom this video was filmed have the right to know. Agree that the shooting of such an event was carried out officially and with permission. A man with a camera ran along the whole building, after all ...

And I agree with the opinion that such videos are necessary. And not only with the privates who refused to go to war, but also with the military of a higher rank. The colonels who supplied the Armed Forces of Ukraine would have looked beautiful and patriotic in the same poses tanks and self-propelled guns, "forgetting" to inform their units about the withdrawal, generals, who have been plundering army property for years, military commissars creating chaos, and so on.

But something tells me that we will not see such shots. Generals can abandon cities reclaimed with the blood of our soldiers, steal thousands of Ratnik kits, filling up all Avitos with them, colonels and lieutenant colonels can safely abandon serviceable equipment, which the enemy then uses with great pleasure.

But they will not be arrested, tried and imprisoned. For this, there are bloggers and journalists who work on the front line and give a picture different from the reports of the Defense Ministry, mobilized, who were given the opportunity to purchase everything they need at their own expense, because the army does not have uniforms, shoes, body armor and other equipment for them and provided "preparation" from shooting 15 rounds. And if someone didn’t like something, the military prosecutor’s office and the military police, together with the military tribunal, will very quickly explain where to think and how to do it so that everything is fine.

But as a part of the same electorate that can fly under the fifth or tenth wave of self-mobilization, I automatically like "mobiles". They are just like me. And I'm just like them. And I can quite stand in the same ranks, and I can just as well be tamped down for an incorrectly spoken word. for example, that I don’t want to die mediocre, because some of the generals really want the coveted star on their tunic.

Presumption of innocence? Yes... And especially in the face of the fact that they were called to send to war. To death. It's like in the Great Patriotic War, attack pilots were not sent to the penal battalions, no matter how they skewed. It was too quiet and safe there compared to the sortie on the IL-2.

And here is a video, the theme of which is "be afraid, otherwise it will be the same with you." And why be afraid of people who tomorrow can simply be killed? Quit. Leave, "forgetting" to bring the order to withdraw. And they will fight to the last bullet, like those riot police, these goons, dressed in whatever they could buy. And they will.
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  1. Leshak
    Leshak 23 November 2022 06: 36
    +54
    I liked the article. It's all pretty reasonable. hi
    1. Ilya-spb
      Ilya-spb 23 November 2022 06: 55
      +46
      Reasonably reasonable....

      I have long had a fundamental question: is Russia at war? Are we at war or what?!

      If we are at war, then we need:
      - unity of the people in the country;
      - discipline in the troops from private to marshal;
      - the restructuring of industry on a war footing and the mobilization of the economy (hello to private property!);
      - a single official information body and the most severe censorship;
      - counterintelligence everywhere and at all levels, secrecy.

      Slogans: Everything for the front, everything for the Victory! Victory will be ours! Death to Spies! The people and the army are united!

      And we have?!!! It seems that only the enthusiasm of ordinary citizens, who were called "kuzmich".
      And only one slogan "Victory will be ours!"

      To be honest, I want to stand up for the price of the future Victory.
      I am against the imitation of vigorous activity.
      We need to return to the recipes tested by the Great Patriotic War.
      1. Civil
        Civil 23 November 2022 07: 11
        +64
        Quote: Ilya-spb
        We need to return to the recipes tested by the Great Patriotic War.

        Can't you bring back Socialist values? Without them, Soviet recipes do not work. Will you return justice, equality, Soviet power?
        1. guest
          guest 23 November 2022 22: 03
          -3
          It is useless to return all this, only Stalin must be returned.
          1. Damir Shamaev
            Damir Shamaev 23 November 2022 22: 11
            +22
            They cannot return Stalin, because returning to Stalin's methods they sign their own incompetence. It turns out that Stalin was right and he is not a cannibal, but the father of peoples, a great manager, and they are dirt on his boots.
            1. insafufa
              insafufa 24 November 2022 08: 10
              +2
              Зthe ban on criticizing the special operation and its obvious minus. What are the mistakes of the authorities in Russia and will they cause a revolution?
              each of us should ask these questions to ourselves
              1. guest
                guest 24 November 2022 15: 07
                +1
                What is meant by criticism of the NWO? Everyone who opposes the NWO is a traitor, and a revolution is not needed in Russia. The rules about mating do not allow me to express my opinion about the opponents of the NWO and the supporters of the revolution.
                1. Dreamboat
                  Dreamboat 24 November 2022 22: 14
                  -10
                  The author of "buffoons" again threw on the fan. I don’t understand why this site needs this savoring of a couple of random species with inadequate types, or even completely dubious fakes ?! Of the hundreds of thousands of military there is no one to show worthy? Oh yes, the worthy ones are at the forefront, but it’s scary there. But having huddled in a crack (most likely already somewhere in Turkey), the "buffoons" angrily burns "our MO, based on several TsPOsh videos from TG! Doesn't such an editorial policy look like pure betrayal, abruptly Galina and others like them? Galkin at least had the courage to openly say that he was against the NWO, and this one seems to be for it, he is even a "patriot", but under a pseudonym you are scribbling .... to the delight of the "all-throwers".
                  1. Vlvl
                    Vlvl 26 November 2022 09: 25
                    +1
                    Yes, of course, it’s better to show tank biathlon and there are no analogues to the Star about! Better yet, record it on video and watch it around. Yes, and buy a generator, so that nothing would distract from viewing when everything around the window collapses.
                    Many people want a real victory with small losses, and this will not work without a real assessment.
                    1. ramzay21
                      ramzay21 28 November 2022 07: 33
                      -2
                      I wonder what result is expected at the top from capturing hundreds of thousands of people, arming them and driving them into inhuman conditions, not counting them as people?

                      Even the tsar in 1914 had the brain to dress and shoe the soldiers at the expense of the state, and then the year 1917 came.
              2. core
                core 26 November 2022 13: 37
                +1
                what a revolution, who will make it!? emigrants to Kazakhstan and Georgia pissed with fear, or that section of the healthy, not wounded, who were later shot dead? in order to make a revolution, the doers must have EGGS, and there must be power that merges. and we see that the power does not merge its own, it gives a chance to fix everything.
                Those who do nothing are not wrong.
          2. Evgeny Ivanov_5
            Evgeny Ivanov_5 24 November 2022 06: 12
            -7
            If you return Stalin's methods, then half of the authors from VO will go to Siberia for sabotage. Mega-popular articles with the joyful support of those who mutuzit commanders, record panicky videos "we were all killed" and replicate them, and so on, would definitely wait for the NKVD. And especially those of the mobs that rush the trenches on the left bank for a couple of days, drop their weapons and rush home. So not only generals and colonels will be arrested. Don't hope.
            1. guest
              guest 24 November 2022 22: 29
              +2
              If anything, I’m not afraid to go to Siberia if the country defeats all our enemies. No need to scare the mythical Stalinist repressions.
            2. Corporal Valera
              Corporal Valera 27 November 2022 19: 09
              +4
              Yes, yes, Stalin's methods are precisely penal battalions, detachments, executions, camps and censorship. And the planned economy, the most powerful advanced industry, excellent trained personnel, responsibility at all levels - these methods have nothing to do with Stalin. Contrary, so to speak. Most importantly, the NKVD fsekhzabiryotvgulak!
            3. ramzay21
              ramzay21 28 November 2022 07: 10
              +1
              If you return Stalin's methods, then half of the authors from VO will go to Siberia for sabotage.

              If you return the principles and methods of Stalin, then those authors about whom you wrote are recognized as honest people who have fulfilled their civic duty.
              But the guarantor, Chemezov, Abramovich, Shoigu, Rotenberg, Gerasimov and several thousand more criminals would be threatened with a fair trial and the Criminal Code of the RSFSR with such excellent articles as article 58 in parts Treason, Sabotage, Wrecking, Work in the interests of foreign states or the bourgeoisie, Counter-revolutionary activities aimed at overthrowing or limiting the power of the Soviets of Workers and Peasants or aimed at undermining or weakening the gains of the revolution. Plus Theft of state property on an especially large scale. Under all articles of VMN and confiscation of property.
          3. KERMET
            KERMET 24 November 2022 07: 15
            +4
            Here it is not necessary to return Stalin, but those tasks and goals to which he aspired
            1. guest
              guest 24 November 2022 22: 32
              +2
              Tasks and goals are not all that you need to have the desire and will to translate them into reality.
            2. core
              core 26 November 2022 13: 41
              +1
              of course, it is safer in Siberia than at the forefront, under shelling. Solzhenitsyn will not let you lie.
          4. The comment was deleted.
            1. Akuzenka
              Akuzenka 24 November 2022 09: 45
              +3
              Then go on the attack in the "Warrior" complex with the support of GDP!m And don't talk nonsense, it hurts.
              1. insafufa
                insafufa 25 November 2022 07: 20
                -2
                Why didn't you like the warrior? Quite normal uniforms for reconnaissance. The kit itself is essentially not for linear parts.
                1. Akuzenka
                  Akuzenka 25 November 2022 10: 36
                  -2
                  Why didn't you like the warrior.
                  If you don't like "Ratnik", you can go with a shovel handle! Don't like the shovel? You can take from the rake!
            2. Yourich
              Yourich 24 November 2022 09: 52
              +6
              this is where they went on the attack like that? Not in the cinema by the case of Nikita Sergeyevich? Maybe there is a real fact, or you are just a fan of spitting on a dead "murderer" on the basis of the movies you have watched.
              1. insafufa
                insafufa 25 November 2022 07: 28
                -2
                So it was sarcasm about a shovel handle. The fact that Stalin, in fact, the murderer and the army approached the warrior with a completely cleared command staff, and only nuggets of Type Zhukov and Rokossovsky and a mediocrity like Kulik who almost brought our artillery to full kaput remained. If it were not for the initiative of the designers and directors of the factories, half of all the developments leading underground would not have been on us and the ZIS-3 and other masterpieces of artillery. the fate of the viper reflects the stupidity of the decisions made. It was he who left our army without anti-tank rifles by the beginning of the war, slowing down their production and development.
            3. Turtle
              Turtle 24 November 2022 20: 38
              -2
              Quote: insafufa
              Well, I suggest that upon the return of your beloved murderer, he will voluntarily go on the attack with a handle from a shovel.

              Do not blaspheme, wicked!
          5. 1006108setitagila.ru
            1006108setitagila.ru 25 November 2022 07: 20
            -2
            There is no Stalin, there is Putin.V.V.
            There's nothing you can do
            I also like Stalin, but ...
            Time does not stand still
        2. 1006108setitagila.ru
          1006108setitagila.ru 25 November 2022 07: 13
          +1
          There is a recipe for every period of time.
        3. newtc7
          newtc7 25 November 2022 23: 58
          -2
          Quote: Civil
          Quote: Ilya-spb
          We need to return to the recipes tested by the Great Patriotic War.

          Can't you bring back Socialist values? Without them, Soviet recipes do not work. Will you return justice, equality, Soviet power?


          Is it possible somehow without your socialist muck? The Russians and before the Second World War won quite a few warriors, and no one did as badly to the Russian people as the communists: they gave the lands to no one knows who, they divided the people, exterminated the kulaks with the nobles and sent them, the church was practically destroyed. The worst year in the history of the Russian people was 1917, the best when the union broke up.
        4. Amper
          Amper 26 November 2022 16: 39
          +1
          Forgotten BROTHERHOOD! The brotherhood of the ruble, Gelendzhik, Valdai, Courchevel and the PEOPLE is impossible !! No illusions! Shooting the White House with tanks for democracy is also democracy. Fees on TV for the treatment of children is prosperity? I don't know how much? Is it a democracy? Whose palace, I don't know? We (who WE?) did not start? Is this S-O-O!? What is it !!!?? When Russian territories are occupied!!!! 1,5 million uniforms not found ... Negative offensive ... belay Numerous victims of the military and civilian population of the country ... Western partners !!!??? Supply of the aggressor!!!?? Board without honor and dignity! stop
        5. travel
          travel 26 November 2022 17: 39
          0
          Justice yes. There was no equality even then. Understanding is needed ..
          Yesterday, see the German talk show (English, German, I know) The deputies argued: should Putin be immediately arrested at the border crossing, and to The Hague? One immediately, the other depending on how the campaign ends.
          What am I talking about, there will be no tough optimization of the front and rear from TOP, the fate of Milosevic or Gaddafi awaits the President (and not only). And the people and the country are the fate of Libya.
          I hope they understand this up there. It's time to stop believing the Danes who bring gifts. It's time to start working, in detail, and finish with agreements
      2. Machito
        Machito 23 November 2022 07: 34
        +95
        And what about this lieutenant colonel, who slapped (hit) Alexander Leshkov on the chest, which provoked a retaliatory push on his star carcass and almost provoked a riot in the unit? He is 15 years in prison is not squirming? The actions of the lieutenant colonel could lead to an uprising of the reservists and the massacre of the "officers". Did the lieutenant colonel even have his pockets sewn up? Before sewing up the pockets, I would have poured some sand up to the top for him. It turns out that officers can beat mobilized reservists. This is very reminiscent of gentlemen officers of noble origin of the imperial army, who were very surprised why the soldiers killed them along with their families.
        In a good way, on TV, you need to show a video of how the ambals of the National Guard wring the hands of a lieutenant colonel and put him in a funnel for insulting a soldier by action and provoking a riot in a military unit.
        1. Mikhail Sidorov
          Mikhail Sidorov 23 November 2022 07: 58
          +38
          This is very reminiscent of gentlemen officers of noble origin of the imperial army, who were very surprised why the soldiers killed them along with their families.

          When the video was published, I was very upset by what I saw. It was like watching a Soviet movie about the revolution.
          1. Machito
            Machito 23 November 2022 08: 08
            +40
            Quote: Mikhail Sidorov
            This is very reminiscent of gentlemen officers of noble origin of the imperial army, who were very surprised why the soldiers killed them along with their families.

            When the video was published, I was very upset by what I saw. It was like watching a Soviet movie about the revolution.

            What upset you? The fact that the lieutenant colonel treats soldiers like cattle and stupid cannon fodder? Or the fact that the lieutenant colonel does not know how to manage people? Or the fact that the lieutenant colonel does not correspond to his position? Or were you upset that the mobilized before being sent to the front are being prepared for parades, and not for military operations?
            And then we are surprised that ours surrender without a fight by a whole squad for a demonstrative execution by the Nazis on camera.
            1. Mikhail Sidorov
              Mikhail Sidorov 23 November 2022 08: 29
              +22
              All of the questions you mentioned are disappointing. Do not add, do not subtract. The fact that discipline and unity of command is very important. Different people and among the mobilized. Personally, I know one mobilized who is a drunkard. Now he called his relatives and said that he was running to the neighboring village for moonshine. Which one is a fighter. Mess? Mess. So I am sure there are a lot of such antisocial elements among the mobilized.
              There is a mobilized my classmate and friend. Absolutely normal civilian, so to speak. Today you go to work, two weeks of training and you are there at the front. But tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, I can also be on the side of those mobilized from the Moscow region if there is still a need for mobilization. So there are such ambivalent feelings.
          2. Russian jacket
            Russian jacket 23 November 2022 09: 59
            +43
            So Mr. Naryshkin once let slip in one of the interviews that they are new nobles. And nothing will happen to the regiment, Since Alabino is the Arbat military district, a thieves' place for milking godfathers, relatives and everyone who "sweat and blood" gets himself the hero's races, though it's not clear why. And those who screw up are sent to a sinecure, such as an inspection. The Hero of Russia is zampotyla, she won't let you lie. They don't serve, they hold positions. And the old joke about the son of a general is a given of the vertical of power.
            1. scaramaks27
              scaramaks27 23 November 2022 12: 11
              +5
              "Arbat VO" is such a swamp!
            2. PC
              PC 24 November 2022 21: 09
              +1
              Yes, yes, especially Naryshkin is a pronounced "hereditary" nobleman! laughing
        2. Unknown
          Unknown 23 November 2022 08: 44
          +9
          Quote: Bearded
          And what about this lieutenant colonel, who slapped (hit) Alexander Leshkov on the chest, which provoked a retaliatory push on his star carcass and almost provoked a riot in the unit?

          Did you watch the video carefully? https://youtu.be/JRVBRZw3IVk Look again at your leisure, and then you will see how this bull-like animal blows smoke in the lieutenant colonel's face, and only after such actions, he repels with the words "but this cannot be done." In civilian life, if such an impudent one blows smoke in his face, he will immediately get in the teeth, for his trick, and on business. And in the army, a senior in rank, what should he do for such actions? The army is not a bunch of bulls, talking in terms of concepts, and also behaving. Subordination has not been canceled, it is and will be. So, who else provoked whom and played for the public, we need to figure it out.
          1. dauria
            dauria 23 November 2022 09: 39
            +40
            So, who else provoked whom and played for the public, we need to figure it out.

            I agree. It seems that any judge should listen not only to the prosecution, but also to the defense. Both sides .
            The trouble is that the "spectators" have ceased to believe in one side - the authorities. She lied often, and trust is a fragile thing.
            1. Unknown
              Unknown 23 November 2022 11: 59
              +5
              Quote: dauria
              The trouble is that the "spectators" have ceased to believe in one side - the authorities. She lied often, and trust is a fragile thing.

              No one forces, and does not force to believe the authorities. It's a personal matter, believe it or not. But one must believe in one's eyes, one's ears, in the end, and be objective , in this conflict.
            2. sadam2
              sadam2 23 November 2022 19: 24
              +8
              I wonder if we will hear the other side.? On December 1st, the new law 333 will be released for compromising the army ... and the weeder. We will dry the novel with crackers on the road .... only the general will remain on TV
              1. Akuzenka
                Akuzenka 24 November 2022 09: 49
                +1
                Most likely we will switch to enemy sources of information. To have at least some more. Lie something and those and others.
          2. alekseykabanets
            alekseykabanets 23 November 2022 09: 40
            +36
            Quote: Unknown
            Look again at your leisure, and then you will see how this animal that has passed away blows smoke in the face of the lieutenant colonel, and only after such actions, he pushes away with the words "but this cannot be done"

            Haven't you asked yourself the question, how did it happen that servicemen smoke on the parade ground? Or is it allowed now? Standing on the parade ground in front of subordinates with your hands in your pockets, is this a normal thing now? The whole point is that the officers of the unit, apparently led by this colonel, made a mess in the unit, some kind of bazaar, but in fact, an ordinary (ordinary) mobilized one who decides to look for the truth will be responsible for this mess? Is this how the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are arranged today? It is not surprising, then, that today we are increasingly "transferring to more advantageous positions" and "straightening the line of defense." I served as an ensign in the 90s and we didn’t have such a mess then.
            1. ssergey1978
              ssergey1978 23 November 2022 11: 05
              -17
              The mess was brought by a mobilized bullish soldier, who enjoyed playing for the public, earning cheap prestige and mocking the colonel. A soldier must receive at least 5 years for the mind and for science to be different
              1. Turtle
                Turtle 24 November 2022 20: 55
                0
                I disagree. For some, the mess is a natural habitat. Everyone has already understood everything, and I will not specify - I will limit myself to only an unambiguous hint, otherwise laws are now being composed at such a speed that "sweet horror rolls up."

                And the fish, as always, begins to rot from the head - here folk wisdom is not mistaken.

                Quote: ssergey1978
                A soldier must receive at least 5 years for the mind and for science to be different

                In this case, Polkan will receive an extra-ordinary title, a medal of the hero of Ukraine and a transfer to Kyiv.
            2. Unknown
              Unknown 23 November 2022 11: 48
              +12
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Haven't you asked yourself the question, how did it happen that servicemen smoke on the parade ground? Or is it allowed now? Standing on the parade ground in front of subordinates with your hands in your pockets, is this a normal thing now? The whole point is that the officers of the unit, apparently led by this colonel, made a mess in the unit, some kind of bazaar, but in fact, an ordinary (ordinary) mobilized one who decides to look for the truth will be responsible for this mess?

              First, watch the video carefully, which consists of several parts, without beginning and end. Initially, it is not known why the conflict occurred. What preceded the gathering of military personnel, and where are the sergeants, platoons? Why did a lieutenant colonel appear, after all, a senior officer, not a company commander or even a battalion commander. In general, one gets the impression of a specially rigged spectacle. You shouldn't be surprised that you shouldn't smoke, sometimes when you watch it, you get the feeling that some of the servicemen are drunk. At least the bull that runs over the officer also yells at his own. But nothing, we will soon learn a lot of details about this incident. One has already slipped that the conflict arose, two weeks before being sent to the troops. To start a fuss, one of the ways to get away from the NWO, as an option. Everyone rushed in unison to condemn the lieutenant colonel, seeing in him the only one responsible for all the troubles of the army and the ongoing operation, and by the way, to give him his due, he had the courage to go out to the crowd, by the way, armed and with dignity to stay there. If someone thinks it's easy, let him try to talk in civilian life with a crowd of excited men, how to get it. The topic of mobilization is incomprehensible. You can’t send conscripts to the SVO who become soldiers in six months, motivating “we tear them off from their mothers”, despite the fact that it was the conscripts who dragged out the two Chechen wars, but you can tear off those mobilized from families, young children who for 5-20 years have thoroughly forgotten that such an army. In the summer, all Russian media unanimously showed ... Servicemen of a platoon of the 3rd battalion of the 115th brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine recorded an appeal to Vladimir ... "They are killing us, the command is incompetent!" The appeal of the militants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to Zelensky .... Does it remind you of anything? One to one. We will see many more interesting things.
              1. alekseykabanets
                alekseykabanets 23 November 2022 20: 31
                +4
                Quote: Unknown
                Everyone rushed in unison to condemn the lieutenant colonel, seeing in him the only one responsible for all the troubles of the army

                No, of course! I wrote in the relevant topic.
                Quote: aleksejkabanets
                Yes, you can't let go! However, the colonel was the first to push the soldier away! Or is it possible for him, but not for a soldier? Any cases of assault must be investigated and for assault must be asked from officers, and even more so from senior officers much stricter than from the lower ranks. For "to whom much is given, more will be asked." And in our country, in any field, from those to whom much has been given, the least is asked.

                The colonel and officers of the unit must be asked much more strictly than the privates. I can't imagine how many heads would have been thrown if this had happened during my AVVAUL days.
                PS And they always mowed down petty thefts, for them they give much less than for the like.
                1. runway-1
                  runway-1 23 November 2022 20: 48
                  +6
                  In many ways you are right. Discipline in a military collective depends both on the moral and physical qualities of ordinary soldiers (in this case, mobilized) and on the real weight of each member of the "hierarchy" - commanders of squads, platoons, etc.
                  1. alekseykabanets
                    alekseykabanets 23 November 2022 21: 33
                    +4
                    Yes, all this is true, but there is one problem, Mayakovsky wrote about it back in 1915, in the poem "To you!"

                    To you who live for an orgy orgy,
                    having a bathroom and a warm closet!
                    Shame on you for being presented to George
                    subtract from newspaper columns?!

                    Do you know, mediocre, many,
                    thinking how to get drunk is better, -
                    maybe now footbomb
                    tore out the lieutenant of Petrov? ..

                    If he, brought to the slaughter,
                    suddenly saw wounded
                    how you smeared in a cutlet lip
                    lustfully sing a northerner!

                    Do you, who love women and dishes,
                    to give life to please?!
                    I'd rather be in the "women of easy virtue" bar
                    serve pineapple water!

                    And plus to this is the "grain deal", the surrender of Kherson, the exchange of "Azov", trade with NATO countries, etc., etc. And I don’t know what words the officers need to find, so that from people forcibly torn off from their families, knowing that their families are left alone with their problems, create a combat unit.
                    1. Alex777
                      Alex777 24 November 2022 18: 59
                      +2
                      All my adult life, I have been a conscious, reasoned anti-Stalinist.
                      Recently, looking at thieves and slobbers -
                      began to doubt, to his surprise.
                      1. alekseykabanets
                        alekseykabanets 24 November 2022 19: 35
                        +4
                        Quote: Alex777
                        Recently, looking at thieves and slobbers -
                        began to doubt, to his surprise.

                        Stalin, this is not only the 37th year, it is also the tax code of the 36th year, read it, it's interesting. His economic model was much more liberal than Brezhnev's or Khrushchev's, and there was no shortage (in the Brezhnen-Gorbachev sense of the word). Under him there was no social stratification, from the word at all. The children of party leaders fought like everyone else. It was fairer, although there were some drawbacks, but this is a separate conversation.
                      2. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 25 November 2022 10: 55
                        +1
                        Still, in the post-war period, some elements of social stratification appeared. There were categories of the Soviet urban population that lived on a completely legal basis, much higher than the average. Although to a large extent, but rather for the most part, these people have earned their level of well-being.
                      3. alekseykabanets
                        alekseykabanets 25 November 2022 11: 01
                        +3
                        It is clear that the minister will receive more than a worker, but there should not be such a difference as Sechin and an ordinary gas or oil worker.
                2. Unknown
                  Unknown 24 November 2022 07: 53
                  +5
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  The colonel and officers of the unit must be asked much more strictly than the privates. I can't imagine how many heads would have been thrown if this had happened during my AVVAUL days.

                  By and large, you need to ask who is in power now, since the army is a mirror of the society in which we live. The officer corps is also different, far from ideal, someone chooses, consciously note, the matter of serving the Motherland, the people, and someone, spit on ideals from a high tower, the main thing is good financial support, full state support, and retirement after service. Moreover, money comes first. When material gain is put at the forefront, then there will be abuse, theft, various tricks with payments. Just the money issue will be the main one in this conflict. Here are the new details ... It is already known that this is a 40-year-old foreman from the same suburbs, Alexander Leshkov ...... From the bullish behavior, it was clear that from the construction site, he was used to taking it for free, he came across such people at work and life ....... Alexander Leshkov was previously convicted of domestic violence and non-payment of debts. These debts, judging by the open database of bailiffs, are still quite a lot, and there are suspicions that the "fighter" used the mobilization only to escape from them.
                  Read more at https://www.pravda.ru/society/1770510-geroi_iz_podmoskovja/..... That's all, there's nothing more to talk about.
                  1. alekseykabanets
                    alekseykabanets 24 November 2022 08: 36
                    +7
                    Quote: Unknown
                    By and large, it is necessary to ask who is in power now, since the army is a mirror of the society in which we live. ...

                    Absolutely fair remark. It is also correct that the main idea of ​​the society in which we live is to make a profit. Yes, and it is foolish to expect something else, given the state structure in which all economic relations are built on profit.
                    Quote: Unknown
                    It is already known that this is a 40-year-old foreman ...

                    But here tell me, what do we care about the moral character of Leshkov? You never know who and what today can write about him, because we personally do not know him, right? The fact is that this case, it is very indicative, in the place of Leshkov, absolutely any caring person could turn out to be, and the disgusting thing that was in this military unit would still have resulted in some kind of ugly action. When I served in the military, two Turkmens, at a remote site, climbed with a welding machine to catch fish, and then climbed to pull it out without turning off the machine, the result - two corpses. When the commission arrived, they were not at all interested in the moral character of these Turkmens, but they were very interested in the question of how the service was set up in the unit, that the soldiers had the opportunity to go to the lake at night and also transport the welding machine there (the dimensions of the machines then were not like now) .
                    1. Unknown
                      Unknown 24 November 2022 10: 00
                      -1
                      There is nothing special about moral character, I can’t baptize children with him. But who was supposed to go to war with him, there is a matter, after all, not to drink a bottle, to fight together; and how he will behave when he presses, you can rely on him or not, you should worry. If a person is shit, then what is the hope in difficult times for him. Throws without thinking. I also happened to serve, 82-year-old autumn conscription and I know what partisans are 87-year-old, but they didn’t allow themselves such behavior towards officers. was in sight, even on a glass. All the same, they recently served, the basics of discipline had not yet disappeared in civilian life, they remembered subordination, and of course there were still hard workers, and they could easily report your jambs at the place of work, and then goodbye to the queue, for housing, a car, not to mention the thirteenth salary and bonuses But times are changing, and the zhlobina behaves with seniors in rank, as with Asians at a construction site. Where is the country headed?
                      1. alekseykabanets
                        alekseykabanets 24 November 2022 10: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Where is the country headed?

                        All the words that can describe the place where it rolls are either obscene or equated to obscene on the site.
                  2. ProstoVictor
                    ProstoVictor 25 November 2022 08: 34
                    +1
                    everyone who says that Leshkov is wrong, did you definitely watch the entire video or just cuts? https://t.me/crimea24new/22676
            3. alexandre II
              alexandre II 24 November 2022 11: 02
              -2
              Yes, they made a mess, I agree, but this does not mean that you need to punch the officer in the chest, as I understand it, everything here is for the Makhnovshchina. There is a charter, there is a military prosecutor's office, it was possible to solve all these problems without criminality, and Leshkov the hero should be sent to the bunk, as a warning to others ..
              1. alekseykabanets
                alekseykabanets 24 November 2022 11: 08
                +1
                Quote from: alexandre
                Yes, they made a mess, I agree, but this does not mean that you need to punch the officer in the chest, as I understand it, everything here is for the Makhnovshchina. There is a charter, there is a military prosecutor's office, it was possible to solve all these problems without criminality, and Leshkov the hero should be sent to the bunk, as a warning to others ..

                Read the comments carefully, no Makhnovshchina, just "to whom much is given, much will be asked," as it should be, and not as it is today.
              2. MeVED
                MeVED 24 November 2022 22: 10
                +3
                Yes, it’s ugly to swear, but there’s no criminal charge for this, well, you pushed this officer once, to give a term for such too much, what, you never participated in fights? So, is it a coward? I participated, but you think it’s fair to give another term, but you don’t? That's why I don't like the army. The officer himself must first of all correspond to his rank. And then there are many who have ranks and positions, and the army is dishonored. This story is disgusting in that many blaze in righteous anger, that the honor of an officer has been offended. And who are these officers? 99.9% of those who went into the army for early retirement, for housing, and for other goodies. Of these, the generals have grown up, who do not care about the lives of soldiers and civilians, just to fill their pockets. The system was built in which others will not survive. When I served a term, we also had military officers - one drunk, another soldier used as slaves for personal purposes. Officers! Past Chechnya! So here you are blazing with righteous anger, calm down, a real term for a person can shine for nonsense in essence.
          3. The comment was deleted.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 23 November 2022 10: 46
              +18
              Quote: mikh-korsakov
              Further, they write that the Warrior kits can be easily bought on Avito. I don’t know, I haven’t checked, but I’m sure that no general, and even a major, will publish his theft on Avito

              I checked. And there is. And why do you have such thoughts that the general or colonel will themselves trade on Avito?
              In this regard, I have a question - why are specialized services not engaged in trade on Avito? After all, broniks have been sold there for more than a year. But no one wants to pull this thread. Probably know who is at the end of the ball?
              1. sleeve
                sleeve 23 November 2022 12: 22
                -8
                Excuse me, but what does "you checked" mean? Have you determined the nomenclature of certain kits to certain warehouse resources of district or divisional regimental services? Could you decipher this phrase? It seems to be calling to turn to you for relevant information as a source.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 23 November 2022 12: 39
                  +10
                  Quote: sleeve
                  Excuse me, but what does "you checked" mean?

                  Go to Avito, score in the search Bulletproof vest 6b45. And you will be happy.
                  The thing is specific, but on Avito in mass sale. No questions arise?
                  1. sleeve
                    sleeve 23 November 2022 15: 59
                    0
                    I will be happy without it. I'm talking about something else. That that thing is specific is beyond doubt. The question was about its origin and hit on Avito. Based on your comment, it might seem that you still have accurate information on this matter. Well, apparently it really seemed ...
                  2. sleeve
                    sleeve 23 November 2022 16: 05
                    +9
                    By the way, Bastion, which produces this armor, is a completely commercial company.
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 23 November 2022 16: 06
                      +4
                      Quote: sleeve
                      By the way, Bastion, which produces this armor, is a completely commercial company.

                      Try to buy it on the official website. There's a waiting period, Mom, don't worry. Like other manufacturers. It's easier to order in China
                      1. sleeve
                        sleeve 23 November 2022 16: 25
                        +5
                        Listen, I got it. We seem to be talking about the same thing but in different ways. I kind of ask if you have reliable information about theft, and you answer me, of course, but how else, because there is armor on Avito, and it takes a long time to buy it from the manufacturer for an ordinary person. I correctly stated your evidence base, right?
                      2. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 23 November 2022 16: 35
                        +12
                        Quote: sleeve
                        I correctly stated your evidence base, right?

                        You have stated your understanding. I did not state the evidence base, I said that at a time when there are no bulletproof vests in the warehouses to dress the mobilized, at a time when armor manufacturers take orders a month in advance, the availability of armor on Avito in the free and mass sale is at least suspicious . And ask questions to sellers, specialized services are simply obliged. For the mass nature of the proposals is already a reason, at a time when it is not known where one and a half million sets have gone.
                        P.S. As I understand it, you are another "guard"? Do you understand who you are protecting? That every armor sold to the left is someone's life?
                      3. sleeve
                        sleeve 24 November 2022 07: 05
                        -2
                        Wait, I didn't say anywhere that I was a "protector". You have already read the note to me. I asked you to clarify if there is information. I don’t know where you wrote what you are now referring to in the comment, you didn’t provide me with such joy. As I understand it, the level of discussion is still if I didn’t believe your arguments, then I’m a “Kremlebot” and I defend thieves? Well, that's right. It's easier. You exaggerate a little and are not quite familiar with the material. Stealing short fur coats is the level of an ensign. But it is correct to "master" the means - this is already on shoulder straps. And yes, when the bar falls and they row already as if not in themselves and it seems that everything is grasped, then the shortages can take on global forms. But it's just the movement of numbers. no need to accuse people of banal theft. They are spinning more elegant schemes where bulletproof vests are simply not needed. And how many of them can be thrown on the entire Russian market? With foreign-made competition? not enough for supervillains. In addition, you are in vain so "running into" the relevant authorities (the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB, the Prosecutor's Office and the military and civilian). disclosure of such theft is a non-alternative career growth. Therefore, they monitor neighboring areas (just in case). And a person exhibiting a product of this kind should be ready to give an answer about the nature of its origin, and possibly more than once. Only clean, uncomplicated money has the ability (according to the adherents of the church "alien-mine") to disappear without a trace. That's why I asked you to open your eyes to the new "mass" theft and assume, if not the military unit, then at least the district. But bad luck ... turned out to be the "defender" ... of the killers turns out ((
              2. your1970
                your1970 23 November 2022 12: 43
                +2
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                After all, broniks have been sold there for more than a year. But no one wants to pull this thread. Probably know who is at the end of the ball?

                At the end of the ball - the manufacturer. Which is absolutely legal after the implementation of the state defense order has the right WITHOUT no restrictions to sell their products to anyone.
                The same thing with the form - go to the website of manufacturers and buy. And then you can easily resell it on Avito with a 2-3 times mark-up. That is why, most likely, there is nothing like "Vasya and Petya, who sold stolen sets, were detained yesterday." Most likely they came along the chain from Vasya to wholesalers - and there the whole package of documents from the plant, including the sale and purchase agreement

                And yes, as a former warehouse manager, an ensign, I can say for sure - in the history of 1.5 million uniform sets - they REALLY did not exist in any case. Too many people would know. There, for sure, deliveries went through papers from one-day firms at the level of the Moscow Region without even going down to the county level.
                It is simply not possible to take away such a number of REALLY existing kits. Too many people would be involved - not only the military, but also civilians. And too much would have to be shared - given that the thing is expensive and not very popular before the NWO ....

                Z.s. to the angry cry of the author - about the raznobrod in uniform. Two of our mobiles happily got into the uniform - because the rubbish bought turned out to be. Two more wear their own - like "it's better." These four I know personally
                They offered everyone to send their home - many refused
                The command of their unit told them all unofficially"Your complaints that they take it away from you, wear it !!"
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 23 November 2022 12: 59
                  +8
                  Quote: your1970
                  The same thing with the form - go to the website of manufacturers and buy.

                  Compare the purchase price of 6b45 by the Ministry of Defense with Avito's price. This is me to the fact that Avito is cheaper.
                  Approximately according to this scheme, I bought the IRP at a free price before the war. The diagram is clearly on the left.
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 23 November 2022 16: 03
                    +4
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Quote: your1970
                    The same thing with the form - go to the website of manufacturers and buy.

                    Compare the purchase price of 6b45 by the Ministry of Defense with Avito's price. This is me to the fact that Avito is cheaper.
                    Approximately according to this scheme, I bought the IRP at a free price before the war. The diagram is clearly on the left.

                    Naturally, Avito will be cheaper
                    1) cut MO with an overpriced price
                    2) retail sales from the factory on their website are naturally higher than large wholesale outbids.
                    IRP is a running thing, it’s easy to cover its shortage. And no one needed bulletproof vests before the SVO for nothing, and you can’t just hide their shortage
                2. El Barto
                  El Barto 23 November 2022 13: 48
                  +7
                  The manufacturer cannot produce commercial SIBZ the same as those under the state defense order for a banal reason. Domestic aramid fiber, which is their basis, is barely enough for orders from the Ministry of Defense.
                  For commerce, either American Kevlar (which is not), or Chinese cal.
                  If they are on the market, then this is either official commercial crap, worthless.
                  Or a factory leftist, when the manufacturer sells products on the left, deceiving the customer and slipping him substandard.
                  Or stolen by initiative ensigns
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 23 November 2022 15: 58
                    +6
                    Quote: El Barto
                    The manufacturer cannot produce commercial SIBZ the same as those under the state defense order for a banal reason. Domestic aramid fiber, which is their basis, is barely enough for orders from the Ministry of Defense.
                    For commerce, either American Kevlar (which is not), or Chinese cal.
                    before the NWO, there were only a few people who wanted to buy a body armor for themselves. 2 thousand for the whole country, no more ...
                    Nobody checked what is sold on Avito for shooting and compliance with their characteristics - therefore, it can be anything, including Chinese feces.


                    Quote: El Barto
                    Or stolen by initiative ensigns
                    being a warrant officer, I can assure you that it was pointless to steal body armor before the NWO - a slow thing. Considering that in this case it was necessary to share it with the inventory commission, the commander and the inspectors, it makes no sense. This is not stew ...
                    1. ada
                      ada 23 November 2022 19: 16
                      0
                      Quote: your1970
                      ... being a warrant officer ...
                      I support. Of course, with a leftist from the Moscow Region of 1,5 mylyny - you have enough wassat
                      , as well as with the inventory. I believe that there is simply no situation, and everything from the missing "into the abyss", what really was - is, but not about ... "honor". Yes, and who said about the loss ?, one "familiar" general? Well, not a "familiar" soldier wassat Now there are a lot of talkers, let NATA's brain wrinkle.
            2. My doctor
              My doctor 23 November 2022 11: 26
              0
              Quote: mikh-korsakov
              Questions arose along the way.

              I noticed that more than half of the people can't read.
              To start.
              1) The author wrote that the filmed appeals of the military are Ukrainian fakes, which the Ministry of Defense refuted.
              2) The author comments on the detention of two people in statutory uniform in front of a line of people dressed in various colors, in passing paying attention to the fact that the officer of the "gendarmerie" was in sneakers. As I understand it, the author believes that it would also be useful to show videos with the arrests of officers who allowed military equipment to be left to the enemy.
              And my opinion on the account of the form of the mobilized so for the mobilized was not initially sewn. because we sewed medium size and not oversize.
              1. Blackgrifon
                Blackgrifon 23 November 2022 19: 49
                +3
                Quote: MyVrach
                I noticed that more than half of the people can't read.

                Judging by the minuses, non-readers rushed to minus out of resentment :) The article as a whole is chaotic.
          4. Russian jacket
            Russian jacket 23 November 2022 10: 02
            +6
            I agree. But… The most important question. Why does the colonel have no authority, and secondly, why does he not answer clearly.
            1. mikh-korsakov
              mikh-korsakov 23 November 2022 10: 54
              +3
              I do not want to condemn anyone, because the situation is not clear to me. 1. Is there an officially approved training program for the mobilized? 2. whether drill training is included in the program, and if so, to what extent. If it does, then didn't it happen that the mobilized simply did not want to perform drill exercises under the pretext that they were being trained as "newbies". As for authority: authority is acquired in battle, not on the parade ground. There are commanders experienced in communicating with subordinates, and there are staff workers. They do not communicate with subordinates. But during the hostilities, if they correctly assess the situation and take the right measures, they will be more useful than the one who, with all the authority, squanders the situation. It happens. Nothing. By the way, I do not want to say about the personality of the bykanuvshego. It often happens that such a one will be bold in battle, not like a nerd who is like that in life and in battle will not offend the enemy.
            2. ssergey1978
              ssergey1978 23 November 2022 11: 07
              +1
              Therefore, that the soldier was used to taking it in a civilian manner, he tried it in the army. We will see the result
              1. saigon
                saigon 23 November 2022 12: 26
                +4
                If the commander is respected, this is not possible in principle! And the way they behave with the colonel says that they don’t put him in anything because there is no authority and shoulder straps do not save.
                That's all .
            3. sleeve
              sleeve 23 November 2022 12: 26
              +1
              If this is a provocative "kneading" with the aim of sloping off the NWO, then there is aggression through the roof in this mise-en-scene. The same "extreme situation" for a lieutenant colonel. And he is just not scared, but simply does not provoke. But the one (or those) who want to change the conclusion to participate in the database, they go to the end, because for some reason they are sure that the punishment is not severe and it can be seen.
            4. Barberry25
              Barberry25 23 November 2022 12: 28
              +2
              in order to have authority, it is necessary that the fighters serve under the command for at least six months, and when the officer saw them 2 weeks ago, there will be no authority .. and yes, I really want to see how you will clearly answer the crowd ... not one specific person who he will ask a question and listen to the answer ... They raised the topic there about "we were given bad bulletproof vests, which are 2nd class." At the officer's suggestion to go and check, he became hysterical ... so you write nonsense. And yes, about "but before "..Earlier during the war, such a noisy fighter was shot down ..
          5. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 23 November 2022 10: 21
            +11
            Quote: Unknown

            ... and then you will see how this dead animal blows smoke in the lieutenant colonel's face, and only after such actions, he repels with the words "but this cannot be done."

            And how else should one talk with this "lieutenant colonel"? He himself sank to such a level that they began to talk to him like that. Why did this, so to speak, "lieutenant colonel" begin to talk to the crowd? Why didn't he give the command - stand up! Why didn't he build the mobilized from the beginning and only then began to find out the reasons for the "rebellion"? This "lieutenant colonel" by his action, or inaction, put himself in a position where they blow smoke in his face. I am sure that initially all the mobilized treated him as a lieutenant colonel, and only when they saw that from the lieutenant colonel he only had stars on shoulder straps, realizing that he did not want or did not know how to prepare them for combat operations, for them he ceased to be a lieutenant colonel. Therefore, those who were not mobilized should be punished, but the "lieutenant colonel" should be demoted and sent to the front. And that is not all. That boss who appointed this unfortunate lieutenant colonel to prepare mobilized for military operations, be demoted and removed from his post.
            1. sleeve
              sleeve 23 November 2022 12: 29
              -3
              And if all the above commands are given and actions are performed? If it remains only to withdraw the guard and "work out"? But if this is a training unit, then the guards are either the same mobilized, or conscripts-salabons. If on the basis of a contract, then ... In short, how aware are you of the real tools of pressure on behalf of the commander on military personnel? How prepared do you think our military units are for this type of riot?
            2. Barberry25
              Barberry25 23 November 2022 12: 36
              +1
              yes, right? All the mobilized are excellent soldiers with discipline hammered into the subcortex? Don’t you yourself think it’s strange what you write down? And yes, discipline is discipline .. And since the soldiers cannot understand this, they are punished, and 99% of the jambs they are not noticed, since the fighters have to go to the front, but for some reason some people think that this is how it should be and start to bully .. Or did you also bully everyone during the service?
              1. Krasnoyarsk
                Krasnoyarsk 23 November 2022 16: 17
                +4
                Quote: Barberry25

                yes, right? All the mobilized are excellent soldiers with discipline hammered into the subcortex? Don’t you yourself think it’s strange what you write down? And yes, discipline is discipline.

                No, it doesn't. What is discipline for the sake of discipline? What it is? Discipline is: observance of the charter, oath, execution of orders and orders of higher officers and superiors. And where in the video do you hear the orders of the mountain lieutenant colonel and the non-compliance with them by the mobilized? There is the usual balabolstvo allowed by this lieutenant colonel. And who is responsible for this? In addition, let's not forget the fact that initially the "rebellion" arose due to poor, in the opinion of the mobilized, their preparation for hostilities, which was replaced by simple drill. And who is to blame for such preparation? You don't have to go far for an answer.
                And what would you do in their place, knowing that tomorrow you will find yourself in the trenches, and you have not been taught how to act correctly, though they have taught you well to walk in formation and sing Katyusha.
                By the way, complaints about poor training are already being successfully washed away. But this is the main thing! The "lack of discipline" and "yes, there seem to be drunks there" come to the fore
                For you the main thing is discipline. And for me - how to behave properly as a fighter on the defensive, on the offensive, in possession of any light weapons and imported (trophy), too.
                1. Barberry25
                  Barberry25 23 November 2022 18: 13
                  0
                  not discipline for the sake of discipline, but discipline is discipline ... 1) there is no full video, there are a couple of stubs, from which it follows that it was the colonel who built them, and the detainee and several other soldiers made a storm. About the "drill" .. but you can find out since when practicing weapons possession, actions on the defensive, on the offensive became "drill"? you bother to watch CAREFULLY the videos and you will find out that the detainee demanded "we need to shoot a lot, And you make us run back and forth with machine guns and like aim at enemies ".. Moreover, when they showed the videos of this training, then right there on the topvar everyone said "oh, well done, they are being prepared."

                  Let me remind you that there was an example when the same military "genius from tiktok" shouted about "they gave us airsoft bulletproof vests", And then he turned pale and squeezed out of himself that, well, the armor plates were shot off and everything is fine there and generally forgive me ..

                  How to behave? 256 times it was agreed - if something does not suit you in the preparation, first check with the instructor officer how and what they will cook, and if it seems that they are preparing it incorrectly, then there are the numbers of the military prosecutor's office, the FSB, representatives of the governors ... Instead we have eternal tantrums and posts on tiktok.
                2. MeVED
                  MeVED 24 November 2022 22: 17
                  0
                  I support. Unfortunately, the text of the comment is too short and does not carry useful information.
              2. ada
                ada 23 November 2022 20: 24
                0
                Quote: Barberry25
                Yes, well? Are all the mobilized people straight, these are excellent soldiers with discipline driven into the subcortex? ...
                Well, yes, but how wassat Reminded.
                We get replenishment, the chief of staff of the military branch of the district is under control, fuss, he participates directly, asks - what is missing to organize the work? , maintaining military discipline and order by shift patrols and taking urgent measures, asks - why weapons? !
                Our people.
                "Our people" are approaching, the bus stops without command, stretching to a large puddle, not so as not to get out, but still (I feel something is wrong, the more he is late, apparently they got the carrier wassat ), the door opens and our people begin to fall out into the puddle, some go out on the sluggish ones, some immediately "describe" the landscape and fall under the jet, those lying in the puddle begin to drink from it without getting up, wild laughter, crawling, swaying while standing , in some places sitting and lying, drinking, smoking and vomiting a crowd of under 70 people ... I briefly look for a caring boss ... We digested these ones somehow. And when there are more than a thousand of them in a short time in a few hours, say in 10? Of course. not all of them were like that, and these were the furthest along the road, but ... By the way, instructions to the district troops to strengthen the commandant's and security and defense of reception points nevertheless followed the results.
                Let's not call Trotsky? wassat
                1. Barberry25
                  Barberry25 23 November 2022 21: 32
                  0
                  here .. and multiply this by "I'll put it on tiktok and you dance" ..
                2. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 26 November 2022 19: 00
                  0
                  Quote: ada
                  Well, yes, but how did they remind you.

                  I will tell you about a dozen such tales, and with the opposite sign too. But how does this relate to the article under discussion? We are currently arguing about nothing. Because we do not know the details, the sequence of events, in short - no specifics. Therefore, I wrote in one of the posts - "I hope that the military prosecutor's office will deal with this with an open mind."
                  But the fault of what happened lies with the lieutenant colonel, that's for sure.
                  1. ada
                    ada 26 November 2022 21: 23
                    0
                    I don't even know how to answer you better. Well, in general, this is not a tale, but a real example of the reception of replenishment in the HF with a low level of organization of the delivery of a team from the VC, which led to the disruption of the planned deadline for a number of events for the reception and distribution of military personnel, including due to low self-discipline citizens who during this period of time are in the process of conscription for military service in the Armed Forces, but it has not yet been completed and its documentation has not yet been completed. Does this characterize conscripts as undisciplined? I think yes. It is a rarity? From experience, no. Is this normal for a defender of the Motherland? No.
                    I think that Com. Barberry25 (Barberry) correctly emphasized the issue of discipline - this is one of the most important foundations for the organization and management of a military organism. I suppose it was this "side" that fell on the article.
                    Yes, and I didn’t argue with you, but I understand the essence of the incident, I don’t even need to figure it out, although I practically didn’t watch all sorts of videos, it used to be worse and sometimes flashes frames in the “Military Chronicle” on the box, still reminds me that probably didn't forget sad
        3. Nyrobsky
          Nyrobsky 23 November 2022 12: 19
          +4
          Quote: Bearded
          And what about this lieutenant colonel, who slapped (hit) Alexander Leshkov on the chest, which provoked a retaliatory push on his star carcass and almost provoked a riot in the unit?

          Doesn't squirm. Have you watched this video yourself or do you draw your conclusions based on rumors and speculation?
          There, Leshkov acted as a provocateur when he blew cigarette smoke into the officer's face, after which he tried to push him away with the words - "You shouldn't do this" and in response received a poke in the chest from Leshkov. Here at least minus, but the situation was in such a way that the video camera impartially recorded it.
          Quote: Bearded
          The actions of the lieutenant colonel could lead to an uprising of the reservists and the massacre of the "officers". Did the lieutenant colonel even have his pockets sewn up? Before sewing up the pockets, I would have poured some sand up to the top for him. It turns out that officers can beat mobilized reservists. This is very reminiscent of gentlemen officers of noble origin of the imperial army, who were very surprised why the soldiers killed them along with their families. In a good way, you need to show a video on TV how the ambals of the National Guard wring the hands of a lieutenant colonel and put him in a funnel for insulting a soldier by action and provoking a riot in the military parts.

          Evona was muddied, to the point of tears!!! It looks like you are tormented by the complex of the infinitely affected by officer arbitrariness? And even that is true, "what for are they needed in the army?" is not it. Dismiss all the officers, disband the army, meet NATO with bread and salt and exposing your cheeks to blows. And then ish eprst were ordered and the soldiers are not allowed to thump and fight. So what?
          The video begins with the words of Leshkov - "I will now come to the headquarters and start breaking limbs until I get it ..." The fact that Leshkov, perhaps rightly, made claims on equipment, training and living conditions, for this he will not be given a term , but for the fact that he dismissed his hands and unambiguously, publicly, threatened to "Stick so that the officer's head will fly off" accompanying this with obscene language, you will have to answer for this.
          If you did not know this and did not see the video, this is one thing, and if you know all this, but deliberately turn the situation upside down, then you are just rotten and a scoundrel. Note that this is not an insult, but your essence. You can complain to the moderator.
          1. MeVED
            MeVED 24 November 2022 22: 22
            +1
            You can feel the blue blood of the speaker, your honor, a hereditary nobleman? They said an insulting word to the officer, and even obscene, oh, what a horror, after all, they all lay in blank verse, probably mixed with French
            1. Nyrobsky
              Nyrobsky 25 November 2022 10: 00
              -1
              Quote: MeVED
              Feel the blue blood of the speaker

              One feels the speaker beer instead of blood.
              Quote: MeVED
              Is your honor a hereditary nobleman?

              Yes sir. Family dynasty from great-grandfather. And you sorry, whose will you be? From the serfs?
              Quote: MeVED
              They said an insulting word to the officer, and even obscene, oh, what a horror
              Well, if it’s for your happiness to walk spat on and sworn at, then I won’t accept such communication. And yet, yes, a person who speaks foul language will not gain the kingdom of God.
              Quote: MeVED
              after all, they all lay in blank verse, probably mixed with French
              No, I'm not strong in French. English with a dictionary. yes
              1. MeVED
                MeVED 25 November 2022 23: 14
                0
                I don’t know how a hereditary officer should understand such common truths that nobility is not inherited, it is not manifested by the presence of stars on shoulder straps.
        4. Barberry25
          Barberry25 23 November 2022 12: 21
          +2
          those. the squeals of a soldier that he is now going to break everyone’s legs and smokes an electronic whitefish on an officer, is this apparently by? Damn, I’m even more convinced that the more stars in the rating, the less awareness of what the army is ... It has already been written more than once, Leshkov is to blame, and that’s all ...
          1. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 23 November 2022 16: 29
            +2
            Quote: Barberry25
            It has already been written more than once - Leshkov is to blame, and that's it ..

            Guilty of what? The fact that the mobilized were indignant at their poor combat training for hostilities? After all, all the fuss flared up precisely because of this. And when the lieutenant colonel went out to the indignant mobilized with his hands in his pockets, showing his complete contempt for the fighters, what kind of reaction did you expect?
            1. Barberry25
              Barberry25 23 November 2022 18: 15
              +1
              for the narrow-minded, I’ll write one more time: if you are not satisfied with the preparation, that is, LEGAL ways to solve them, about which ATTENTION Krasnoyarsk even the Moscow Region itself told, and if a fighter yells about “I’ll break all your legs there now,” then he has problems with his head ..
        5. Seamaster
          Seamaster 23 November 2022 12: 56
          +3
          Lie, my friend, why? I watched this video several times. Tall Leshkov leans towards the low underground floor and exhales tobacco smoke in his face from a distance of 10 cm. He automatically PUSHES it away from him. In response, Leshkov beats him in the chest. In the tsarist / Soviet army, under similar conditions, Leshkov would have received a bullet in the forehead right there. And there would be nothing underground.
          1. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 23 November 2022 16: 34
            +2
            Quote: Seamaster
            Lie, my friend, why?

            Yes, everything was as you say. But your trouble is that you have no idea about the cause and effect relationship. "Vysoky Leshkov" could not behave like that for no reason. Think about it. At the same time, he tempered his officer pride.
            1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
              Sergey Aleksandrovich 23 November 2022 17: 37
              +7
              That is, a person with the skills of a gopnik, in principle, cannot behave inappropriately? Well, he couldn't, he couldn't... wassat
            2. Barberry25
              Barberry25 23 November 2022 18: 17
              +3
              you were apparently raised in the world of pink ponies pooping like a rainbow ... here, by the way, in another article they posted a screenshot of the good "High Leshkov" .. for some reason it was said about the beatings of your own mother .... well, they couldn’t have called in the military registration and enlistment office inadequate .. there after all, only the best patriots are taken ... or could they?
          2. Evgeny_4
            Evgeny_4 23 November 2022 21: 04
            +1
            And what about the royal army?
            By the way, the tsarist army commands more respect than those who serve for the sake of benefits, apartments, free rations. From this, by the way, this army has authority below the baseboard.
        6. Gulo
          Gulo 23 November 2022 20: 46
          -1
          It would be great. But fantasy, I guess.
        7. Radius
          Radius 24 November 2022 04: 49
          +2
          By the way... The video shows not the National Guard, but the military police. Do you understand the difference?
        8. KERMET
          KERMET 24 November 2022 07: 16
          +1
          Distort a little - watch the video again
        9. insafufa
          insafufa 24 November 2022 07: 37
          +1
          I agree this colonel's turkey would also be worth the seniority for assault. Ato is standing at the post, Shamanov’s adjutant throws booze at you, and you are also to blame for the fact that, according to the charter, you bought him when the post was attacked. This is where the legs of these untouchable higher ranks grow from. The words of the god of the fighter were defended even though the scandal was notable. The regiment commander cited this story as an example of how to fulfill the charter, regardless of shoulder straps.
        10. insafufa
          insafufa 24 November 2022 07: 59
          -1
          Stop discrediting our army, our generals are the best of all Western propagandists and bloggers (showing the whole truth) to do this. Let them fall, do not keep them from jumping into the abyss where they will trample themselves in pursuit of the protection of their caste and their general's uniform.
        11. Amper
          Amper 26 November 2022 16: 44
          0
          Subservience is our cross... recourse Raised on bayonets during the REVOLUTION gentlemen. Now we can't protect ourselves. The shepherd always knows where and how to lead the herd - to pasture or slaughter, the herd only lows. belay
      3. Sunstorm
        Sunstorm 23 November 2022 07: 38
        +32
        Unity? When a person lives, for example, in St. Petersburg and he has one bathroom the size of a three-ruble note somewhere in Samara ... Probably everyone is ready to rally with him.
        Discipline? When there are those who can do everything and those who can’t ... it’s clear that discipline is needed for those who can’t.
        Industrial restructuring? And who will rebuild? How? Each to his own understanding? Do you need a general plan?
        Single media? Truth? or spark? Censorship is of course necessary, why? What would protect from unnecessary opinions? Well, yes, then it will be easier to unite (after all, superfluous knowledge will go away .. and discipline will become order .. among stinks)
        Counterintelligence? And who will work in it? Those who are now? Or will we recruit new ones according to the announcement? If those who are now ... then what will change? If the new ones are on the ad .. then maybe those who are now are better?
        And also the visiting courts of the troika ... you don’t have a slogan ... a court arrived ... condemned, mobilized or shot right away ...
        WWII is not a recipe to which you can return, because there is no main component of the "Soviet Man" who believed in equality, brotherhood ... his homeland ...
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 23 November 2022 08: 51
          +22
          Quote: Sunstorm
          When a person lives, for example, in St. Petersburg and he has one bathroom the size of a three-ruble note somewhere in Samara ...
          you idealize St. Petersburg, I think there are people in Samara who have a bath the size of a three-ruble note in St. Petersburg, only such people will not fall under mobilization .. neither there nor there
          1. Sunstorm
            Sunstorm 23 November 2022 18: 19
            +6
            I agree with you. And add a side view. I am Russian by nationality and have enough relatives in Russia, but since Soviet times the family has been in Belarus ... What am I talking about .. about mobilization, it was very wild to observe the number of cars with Russian numbers and the letters Z ... after the start of mobilization .... all .. all apartments .... estates ... sanatoriums .. everything was packed with "patriots" of military age. It was embarrassing and horrible to watch. And how partisan they behaved in the evenings, having pretty much picked up ... we haven’t had anything like this yet. However, how it will be with us .. it’s better not to even guess. Patience and courage to all of us.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 23 November 2022 19: 12
              +2
              Quote: Sunstorm
              I agree with you. And add a side view. I am Russian by nationality and have enough relatives in Russia, but since Soviet times the family has been in Belarus ... What am I talking about .. about mobilization, it was very wild to observe the number of cars with Russian numbers and the letters Z ... after the start of mobilization .... all .. all apartments .... estates ... sanatoriums .. everything was packed with "patriots" of military age.

              Well, they came to the "west" with the letter Z.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 23 November 2022 15: 22
          +4
          Quote: Sunstorm
          Unity? When a person lives, for example, in St. Petersburg and he has one bathroom the size of a three-ruble note somewhere in Samara ...

          Then in the army and in the country you most likely will not see him now. The fate of such people - "Fabulous Bali"©.
          The inhabitants of Khrushchev, panels and human settlements, which are the same throughout the country, will have to rally.
      4. Lykases1
        Lykases1 23 November 2022 07: 39
        +30
        And your words are reasonable. There is only a small nuance. One blogger, the voin ros channel, reasonably enough, said - what kind of economy are you going to mobilize, what kind of industry should be transferred to war footing? All this is not. The existing factories operate around the clock. The rest are destroyed. The article is a little chaotic, emotional, but that's right, definitely a plus.
      5. Gardamir
        Gardamir 23 November 2022 07: 41
        +22
        And only one slogan "Victory will be ours!"
        Since society is divided, I would like to clarify who will win.
        1. alekseykabanets
          alekseykabanets 23 November 2022 09: 46
          +9
          Quote: Gardamir
          Since society is divided, I would like to clarify who will win.

          "But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said to them, Every kingdom divided against itself shall be laid waste; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand." Mt: 12:25-25. These lines are at least one and a half thousand years old.
      6. Andy_nsk
        Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 08: 03
        +3
        If we are at war, then we need:
        - unity of the people in the country;
        - discipline in the troops from private to marshal;
        - the restructuring of industry on a war footing and the mobilization of the economy (hello to private property!);
        - a single official information body and the most severe censorship;
        - counterintelligence everywhere and at all levels, secrecy.

        I will answer the points:
        - Unity of the people. Yeah, right now I'll rally with Abramovich and Sechin. Will they rally with me or will they continue to use public property for their own purposes (yachts, real estate in London, etc.)?
        - Discipline from private to marshal. We don't have marshals. There are many generals and senior officers, and, apparently, they do not cope with their duties, moreover, from the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff to the training centers for "mobiks". And what do we see? - the fish rots from the head, and they clean it from the tail! They tightened the legislation, they arrest recruits right from the ranks of some "partisans". And why didn't they arrest the general who stole 1500000 sets of uniforms in which these "mobiks" were supposed to be dressed. And what kind of word is “mobiki”, who invented it, why so much contempt for the soldiers called to defend the Motherland?!
        - Mobilization of the economy. Hello private property. Those. Do you want to liquidate private property and transfer the enterprises into the hands of "red directors"? This will immediately reduce the efficiency of work at times. I have extensive experience in both state-owned and privately owned enterprises. Just heaven and earth. I will only say one word about socialism: scarcity. Strange as it may seem for people who are far from real production, it is under socialism that the authorities cannot obtain the necessary products in the required volumes. And this is confirmed by the entire world experience. And there is no need to draw examples from the times of the Second World War, such examples are not applicable to the present.
        I don’t even want to talk about “organs” and “counter-branching” because of severe allergies. Konashenkov through all channels, and close independent channels, and put people who support their cause in jail.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 23 November 2022 08: 19
          +14
          Quote from Andy_nsk
          Just heaven and earth.

          But how. Work hard twice as much, get less and don't say a word against it.
          1. Andy_nsk
            Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 09: 09
            -7
            But how. Work hard twice as much, get less and don't say a word against it.

            I really have to work harder, I get much more. I bark with the director regularly, but on business, without switching to personal insults. In general, I noticed that the local comrades on the site do not understand the difference between a socialist and a capitalist economy. Under capitalism, mutual trade takes place through buying and selling through sales and supply departments. Under socialism, nothing can be bought, all supplies go through the State Planning Commission. Those. The State Planning Commission plans for the five-year period who should supply what products to whom, "funds" will be allocated. If in the thirties and forties of the last century such a system worked, then by the eighties it stopped working. Complex products have hundreds of items of components, in addition, it is necessary to modernize products; in electronics, for example, the element base changes significantly every few years. Enterprises were forced to knock out funds through higher organizations with a large margin, from which large illiquid assets accumulated in warehouses. Cunning suppliers began to change one funded illiquid assets for others, i.e. switched to barter. When developing new products, it was possible to receive funds for components in two years .. or not to teach - at the discretion of the State Planning Commission. How the State Planning Commission allocated funds, I do not understand at all. Apparently there were only telepaths and geniuses (sarcasm). In general, by the 80s of the last century, the socialist economy became incapacitated. And now only Cuba and North Korea have remained socialist. My daughter was in Cuba, before leaving she gave cosmetics to the maid from the hotel. As the maid thanked her, she simply glowed with happiness !!! So I don’t want such a fate as the Cubans have for myself, let alone children and grandchildren! And if we return to our topic, then with a planned economy, we will not be able to organize the production of modern weapons in commodity volumes!
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 23 November 2022 09: 36
              +28
              Quote from Andy_nsk
              I hang out with the director regularly

              Who are you? A simple locksmith-turner? Do you work in a small office? Yes, hardly. I would look at you, standing behind the machine at minus 20, because, as the boss, there is no money for heating. Or in another office: "I'm not paying you so that you shuffle your feet into the change house at five to six, you have to work until six!" And the fact that we start not at 9, but at 8-45 is not of interest to him. Send your daughter to Cuba for 20 thousand? Middle class! Despite the fact that such offices do not issue overalls with boots, they do not pay a double fee for going out on a day off. He worked in a place where neither May 9 nor March 8, no holidays, except for the New Year holidays and the birth of this Christ, were celebrated. The barin was a pious man. Ugh, damn it. My dad got an apartment under the USSR, almost every year he rode to the south, and for 30 years of your fucking capitalism I have nothing but impotent rage. Although in the 90s I worked at an enterprise where socialist traditions were maintained for workers, for me personally this time was the best in my life. The last 20 years have been complete darkness with the wages of Putin's middle class. So there is no need to treat me with Cuban stories, and the horse understands that you can’t earn much on cigars with sugar in almost blockade conditions.
              1. Andy_nsk
                Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 09: 52
                -10
                Do you work in a small office?

                When I started working in 1994, there were 7 people in the office, now there are more than three hundred, we produce high-tech complex electronic products, we built a new second workshop, now we are building a third one - all at the expense of the enterprise, the profit is only from the sale of our products. I work as the head of the design department, a candidate of technical sciences, a respected person at the enterprise, whose opinion is considered by everyone, including the director. Often you have to work in the evenings and on weekends, for example, when delivering products to the Customer. Contracts are drawn up in such a way that each day of delay is paid with huge fines. Turners and CNC machine operators work in new workshops with new equipment, and taking into account processing (they are paid under the Labor Code), they can earn more than me in certain periods (I have irregular working hours, processing is not paid).
                My daughter bought a ticket to Cuba with her own money, she worked at that time in the office of programmers as a project manager, no one limits the time to eight hours either, the salary was more than mine. And if someone does not know how or does not want to work, then this is his problem, there is no need to bring down your jambs on the social system. Find a job with normal conditions - there is a shortage of working specialties in the country.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 23 November 2022 10: 26
                  +18
                  Quote from Andy_nsk
                  shortage of workers.

                  I have already run over Moscow construction sites, living in a 3 by 4 trailer. Like my neighbor, who earned a disability there and died in poverty, graduated from school with a gold medalist, a former designer of cartridge lines, working with the hero of social labor Koshkin and a university teacher.
                  Quote from Andy_nsk
                  I work as the head of the design department, candidate of technical sciences, a respected person at the enterprise,

                  Quote from Andy_nsk
                  And if someone does not know how or does not want to work, then this is his problem, there is no need to bring down your jambs on the social system.

                  Yeah, in the 90s he knew how, and then he abruptly forgot how. Come on candidate. If you don’t see what the country has been brought to, your problems.
                2. Dante Alighieri
                  Dante Alighieri 23 November 2022 10: 43
                  +10
                  I work as the head of the design department, candidate of technical sciences, a respected person at the enterprise, whose opinion is considered by everyone, including the director

                  Those. white collar, right? In fact, the manufacturing elite. And although I personally have nothing against engineers and, on the contrary, I completely agree that they should and must receive more ordinary workers, but what I absolutely do not understand is the desire to broadcast my positive personal experience to all other members of your team , and even for those who are not engineers. Or do you want to say that you and some mechanic working at the same enterprise with you have completely identical work experience, that you, like him, spend 100% of your working time in the workshop, and not in the office in an armchair at the computer , at best going down the line as a representative of the OTC?

                  I repeat, I do not feel negative towards the people of your profession, this is a very important and very necessary work, without which complex production is not possible in principle. Moreover, like no one else, I am aware of how difficult mental activity can be. But admit, you are still not a worker. And as you know: a well-fed hungry one does not understand. About what, and writes Roman in his article.

                  By the way, you also do not understand the difference between a socialist and a capitalist economy. You simply take as a basis the practice that existed under the USSR. But who said that it was the only possible and categorical? Just because it was? This is not an argument. This is rather an example of how not to act, as well as an example of what happens when dogmas begin to prevail over both expediency and rationality. However, this is definitely not the only possible and mandatory format of internal economic relations under the socialist system of production, as we are eloquently told by the experience of modern countries, one way or another proclaiming socialist principles of economic management.
                  1. Andy_nsk
                    Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 12: 37
                    0
                    You and some locksmith working at the same enterprise with you have completely identical work experience, that you, like him, spend 100% of your working time in the workshop, and not in the office in an armchair at the computer, at best going down to the line as a representative of the OTC?

                    I do not go down to the shop as a representative of the Quality Control Department, because I work in the design department. My work is the development of new equipment, I work both with a computer and with people. By and large, it is the developers and designers who create the equipment, and the workers only make parts for this equipment, without my work, not a single product will be created. People working in a serious industry understand this very well. As for the salary of workers at our enterprise, if there is significant overtime in the evenings and weekends, it practically doubles and exceeds mine. I have an irregular working day, and although I work exactly the same as the workers, I am not paid overtime. Don't take this as a complaint, I'm happy with everything. Sometimes I go on business trips - when I hand over new equipment developed by me, or for other problems that cannot be solved without me. In this case, I get paid overtime too, and there are different conditions. For example, I once lived in a trailer for three weeks at minus 47, amenities on the street. Neither I, nor those engineers who were with me, did not whine, but sometimes worked for whole days, incl. at night, outside in the cold and wind.
                    By the way, you also do not understand the difference between a socialist and a capitalist economy.

                    Curious, tell me.
                    However, this is definitely not the only possible and mandatory format of internal economic relations under the socialist system of production, as we are eloquently told by the experience of modern countries, one way or another proclaiming socialist principles of economic management.

                    Could you be more specific? I already wrote here that there are only two countries in which the socialist principle of management: Cuba and Korea, all the rest have a market economy.
                    1. Dante Alighieri
                      Dante Alighieri 23 November 2022 21: 02
                      -1
                      By and large, it is the developers and designers who create the equipment, and the workers only make parts for this equipment, without my work, not a single product will be created.

                      Thanks for the explanation. I roughly imagine the role of a design engineer or a design engineer in production. And yes, while the product is only being put into production, it happens that they no longer need to play the role of quality control department. At least that's what I've seen personally.
                      As for the salary of workers at our enterprise, if there is significant overtime in the evenings and weekends, it practically doubles and exceeds mine. I have an irregular working day, and although I work exactly the same as the workers, I am not paid overtime.

                      You know, I'm sincerely happy for your workers. Especially if the link to Novosibirsk in your nickname points to the city where you live and work. Neighbors anyway. True, my particular region, unfortunately, cannot boast of outstanding economic indicators.
                      Could you be more specific? I already wrote here that there are only two countries in which the socialist principle of management: Cuba and Korea, all the rest have a market economy.

                      Can. But first, let me ask you one clarifying question, because. I think I understand what our conceptual impasse is. However, one point needs to be clarified first. What exactly characterizes the socialist economy for you. What is its difference from the command-administrative (planned) economy or are these concepts identical?
                      1. Andy_nsk
                        Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 21: 49
                        0
                        I roughly represent the role of a design engineer or a design engineer in production. And yes, while the product is only being put into series, it happens that they need to play the role of quality control department

                        Well, during the debugging of experimental devices, developers have to fulfill all the roles: first of all, adjusters, metrologists, etc. Even the file had to be taken. Tomorrow I'll sit down at the computer and answer the rest of the questions, now it's too late, and yes, I'm from Novosibirsk.
                      2. Andy_nsk
                        Andy_nsk 24 November 2022 09: 21
                        0
                        I would not say that Novosib differs from other million-plus cities for the better, I think that the situation is better in Kazan or Krasnoyarsk. Where are you from, if not a secret?
                        What exactly characterizes the socialist economy for you. What is its difference from the command-administrative (planned) economy or are these concepts identical?

                        Let's start with a command-administrative (planned) economy. This is an economy in which the distribution of goods (primarily goods of group A) is carried out centrally (Gosplan), the distribution of goods of group B is carried out on market-distributive principles (a limited market that allows, first of all, sale in state stores, but cooperatives are also partially allowed, direct management is retained through the introduction of cards, coupons, special shops for the elite), management of enterprises is also centralized (branch ministries).
                        Socialist economy is a more vague concept. Firstly, judging by the posts in this thread, the majority is confident that the socialist economy is a socially oriented economy (which clearly does not correspond to the reality in which I lived), many Western European parties and governments have also declared themselves socialist or social democratic , although in essence they are petty-bourgeois. Therefore, I would define a socialist economy according to the main feature - the form of ownership (I have not forgotten Marxism-Leninism, which I studied well at the university). Under a socialist economy, the form of ownership is public. And purely theoretically, there can be two options for management - command-administrative planned (as in the USSR) or self-management of work collectives (as in Yugoslavia, the so-called Titoism). In the USSR, an attempt was made to switch from the first model to the second during Gorbachev's perestroika, when they started talking about self-government and self-sufficiency of enterprises, they began to create STK (councils of labor collectives), but since they started all this too late and everything was done extremely slowly and hesitantly ( like all the actions of Gorbachev: one step forward, two steps back), in the end, a wave of popular indignation washed away the CPSU and socialist ideology.
                      3. Dante Alighieri
                        Dante Alighieri 24 November 2022 13: 44
                        0
                        Where are you from, if not a secret?

                        Not a secret. Barnaul, Altai Territory. I'm talking neighbors.
                        By the way, I take my words back. You still separate flies from cutlets. But, by the way, it’s also your fault that I made a mistake - your first comment looked too one-sided, although, as it turns out, if you wish, you are quite capable of operating not only with the unsuccessful experience of the Soviet
                        economic and distribution system (which was licked like a blueprint by the DPRK and Cuba), but also by the practice of other socialist countries, the same Yugoslavia or China. Moreover, I note that I am not the only one who was deceived by your comment. The users below correctly pointed out to you that the market, market relations, as well as competition among the productive forces existed long before capitalism and, most likely, will be after. Again, if you remember the political economy course, it directly spoke about the birthmarks of capitalism, that is, market relations within a socialist / communist society. The only problem is that Soviet researchers perceived this as an atavism, a relic that must be got rid of, and not as an element that must be learned to incorporate correctly. Again, in my opinion, one should not so categorically reject the experience of European countries, especially the countries of the Scandinavian Peninsula, which, in my opinion, with their idea of ​​​​an unconditional basic income, more than other countries of the European continent, have come closer to implementing the principle "from each according to his ability, to each according to needs." Of course, in form it is not entirely socialism, just as the Soviet reality was not in full measure, which the same Millovan Djilas rightly described as a society in which the exploitation of a person by another person was replaced by the exploitation of a person by the state. It is clear that this form is much closer to the concept of socialism than the traditional relations between the bourgeoisie and workers, since it is almost completely impersonal and does not pursue mercantile interests, being guided more by objective necessity than by the desire to maximize one's own profit, but this does not cancel the fact of exploitation, although and makes it more digestible and even to a certain extent acceptable.
                      4. Andy_nsk
                        Andy_nsk 24 November 2022 15: 01
                        0
                        But, by the way, the fact that I made a mistake is also your fault - too your first comment looked one-sided

                        Apparently, I was really careless in some comments, to be honest, I wrote them out of idleness, I ended up in bed on sick leave for a long time. I think that I shouldn’t have gotten involved in a discussion with people who are clearly incompetent and from whom nothing but insults can be expected.
                      5. Dante Alighieri
                        Dante Alighieri 25 November 2022 05: 02
                        +2
                        Well, I hope my words didn't offend you. As for the audience of the site, it is very different. Like our society as a whole, of which the Military Review is a tracing paper. Although I remember the times when the resource was still the property of a small number of simply enthusiastic people, it was more lamp and more, as it is now fashionable to say, user-friendly. Then there were a lot of intelligent commentators who came here not for the sake of hype, but for business. Moreover, it was often possible to learn even more from such people than from the articles themselves. But even then it was not without holivar. True, then they were more substantive in nature and were much more reasoned. In general, it was interesting. But since 2014, the trend has slowly begun to change. The audience grew, and its quality fell, and this affected not only the commentators, but also the team of authors, although not all of them, many, on the contrary, have greatly grown above themselves. So, whenever possible, I always try to state my thought as fully and in detail as possible, regardless of the number of printed characters - this is at least some guarantee that they will interpret me correctly, although not 100%. Therefore, you should not take everything to heart, especially since all the omissions can always be clarified in the following messages.

                        Personally, I was pleased to talk with you and find out that somewhere, something, still somehow lives and develops (even if it is again connected with oil production - our property on the one hand and our curse on the other). There is little left - to make this trend a common practice, but these are my personal dreams. The only thing you should not forget is that your experience is your own personal experience and no one else's, and therefore, under other conditions / circumstances, it may either not work at all, or be transformed into something completely utterly utter. What actually clearly demonstrates to us the various ways of managing.

                        In any case, I wish you a speedy recovery and not disappear from the pages of VO. The more adequate people there are, the less space will be left for those who are on the payroll, saying not what they really think, but what is necessary.
                      6. Andy_nsk
                        Andy_nsk 25 November 2022 07: 45
                        0
                        Well, I hope my words didn't offend you.

                        Of course not. I write about outright rudeness with the transition to "you" and personal insults, in this style I am not accustomed to communicate and I am not going to get used to it. I tried to respond to all the well-reasoned statements. I am especially surprised, to put it mildly, by the statements of people who have no idea about the production of modern technology, including electronics, but who have "their own opinion" about the need to "tighten the screws", Stalin's methods of work, creating sharashka for engineers and designers. I understand that this is written by retired officers and ensigns, who even have very vague ideas about the production technology of the Kalashnikov assault rifle, not to mention the technology of printed wiring or modern metalworking. Well, okay, to be offended by stupid people is not to respect yourself.
                        even if it is again connected with oil production - our property on the one hand and our curse on the other

                        I started working at the Minaviaprom, I did a lot of things, the most famous project is Buran - I participated in the testing of its components. But when, during the Gaidar reform, we were no longer paid salaries from the word “absolutely” and, apart from potatoes grown by our own hands, my family had nothing to eat, I had to push around different offices, I had to trade in Chinese rubbish, until I found that group of comrades who only created and started working. At that time, at least some money was spinning only in the oil industry, but even there it was not going smoothly either, there were very difficult times, and we got through everything only thanks to the tireless work, knowledge and qualifications of our engineers.
                        So, if possible, I always try to state my thought as fully and in detail as possible, regardless of the number of printed characters - this is at least some guarantee that they will interpret me correctly, although not 100%

                        I have a strong intuitive feeling that you are a university teacher, most likely a military one. If you don't want to reply here, just reply privately :)
                      7. Dante Alighieri
                        Dante Alighieri 26 November 2022 16: 24
                        0
                        I have a strong intuitive feeling that you are a university teacher, most likely a military one.

                        Hahahaha, unfortunately not. However, I can not say that you did not guess at all. Indeed, I have some teaching experience, however, in a civilian, and not in a military university. We have no military educational institutions in the Altai Territory at all. There was once a Barnaul flight school, which, by the way, graduated from the hero of the Soviet Union Alexander Vladimirovich Rutskoi, but it was disbanded in the 90s. Now there is a legal institute of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

                        In principle, I liked teaching and, it seems to me, I did it well, but it was difficult to earn money for a living, especially if you worked exclusively on an hourly basis, without any additional sources of funding, for example, the same grants with which on that moment was very tight. Not to say that even today getting funding for your topic is a fairly simple task, but at least possible, especially if you study patriotic sentiments among young people, the degree of satisfaction and trust in state institutions, and other sacred things that can be identified by social. surveys. My own topic, unfortunately, lay rather in the theoretical plane, but it was very innovative. In general, despite the interest on the part of colleagues, scientific activity did not bring any dividends on which one could simply survive. I had to eat something, wear something and pay a communal apartment, and I was forced to leave the university and go to the state. service, fortunately a vacancy for a press service specialist in one state organization turned up. And turned up quite by accident.

                        Not to say that my salary is amazing, the salary is generally ridiculous - 4600 rubles, but bonuses are added to it in the form of another salary, allowances for experience, for rank, a 15% allowance for special conditions of civil service (read for irregular working hours ) etc. As a result, the average amount for our region is 23-24 thousand rubles. But now, when I just got a job and still had neither rank nor seniority, it was much less, but even this seemed to me, a former laboratory assistant, manna from heaven. Plus, there are bonuses, although small, but once a quarter they add 2-3 more salaries to the budget. Most importantly, no delays. Because I have few needs, I am not burdened with a family, I have enough. In fact, I am the same official who is usually scolded. And I understand why., because. There are also many labor costs.

                        From time to time there are ideas to return to graduate school, but this is superimposed on the overall workload, which is absolutely unpredictable, as well as on my personal position, which is that it is impossible to do science half-heartedly, because it turns into a profanation. For example. Recently, a friend came to the defense on a topic related to the state symbols of the Republic of Kazakhstan (starting from the khanates and ending with the modern period). I am still wondering for whom she wrote this and what new things in her research could she enrich for our domestic humanities? It is clear that Kazakhstan is a neighboring country with us, and the Altai Territory is also a border region, but we are still part of the Russian Federation, not Kazakhstan. So it turns out research for the sake of research, or simply an imitation of violent activity. I can't do that.
                3. aglet
                  aglet 23 November 2022 11: 24
                  +8
                  "we produce high-tech complex electronic products"
                  and what, if not a military secret? Or just riveting nameplates? from "made in china" to "made by us"?
                  "Find a job with normal conditions - there is a shortage of working specialties in the country"
                  Have you also traveled all over the country to find this job? and do you live in the regional center near kirov or in uryupinsk, do you also produce "high-tech" products there?
                  1. Andy_nsk
                    Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 12: 49
                    +1
                    and what, if not a military secret? Or just riveting nameplates? from "made in china" to "made by us"?

                    Not military, only commercial. Equipment for oil production. This equipment was developed by me and my colleagues; it is produced entirely at our production facility. We buy equipment mainly in the west (and this is not mainland China). But the cost of components is far from the main component of our products, the main thing is still the brains and the work that we invest.

                    Have you also traveled all over the country to find this job? and do you live in the regional center near kirov or in uryupinsk, do you also produce "high-tech" products there?

                    I have to fly around the country, I have visited a dozen or three cities in recent years. I myself live in Novosib and I agree that life in the regional centers is worse (Although I know people in small towns who have created their own business and live very well). I agree that the problem of small towns is very acute, and, unfortunately, our government does not deal with this problem.
                    1. aglet
                      aglet 23 November 2022 18: 10
                      +4
                      "issued in full in our production. We buy a complete set mostly in the west
                      so is it produced entirely in your production, or are foreign components twisted with screwdrivers?
                      1. Andy_nsk
                        Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 18: 32
                        -1
                        We have two workshops of mechanical production (there are American CNC machining centers), now we are building a third workshop. We have our own electronic production, where boards are assembled and devices are debugged. Foreign components are understood as microcircuits and passive components. And most importantly, all manufactured devices are developed by me and my colleagues, screwdriver assembly is not about us.
                    2. Sergej1972
                      Sergej1972 25 November 2022 11: 36
                      0
                      Perhaps the lack of attention to the problems of small towns is due to the fact that the majority of citizens, yes, by and large, and Russians in general, live in big cities. Although, you may think that a city with a population of 100 thousand is small.
                      1. Andy_nsk
                        Andy_nsk 25 November 2022 13: 24
                        0
                        Perhaps the lack of attention to the problems of small towns is due to the fact that the majority of citizens, yes, by and large, and Russians in general, live in big cities. Although, you may think that a city with a population of 100 thousand is small.

                        I'm not sure if your post was directed at me, but I'll answer as best I can.
                        I do not consider a city with a population of 100 thousand small, although I do not know the exact definition of the concept of "small city", rather less than 30 thousand. Let's say Berdsk in the NSO with a population of 100 thousand. I would not call it small, especially Noyabrsk in the Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug. And the population is not even as important as "specialization" and industry. potential of small towns. If this is a "single town" and the city-forming enterprise is closed, it is clear that the entire population is very sour. If in the states the population of such cities simply disperse, then it is very difficult for us to leave. Although much depends on the mobility of people. Let's say my daughter with her husband and grandson (now 1,5 years old), despite having an apartment in Novosib, suddenly left for the Crimea for a year (my grandmother and I had a negative attitude towards the move, although we respected their decision), and now they have been in M-ve for half a year. The family of the second daughter, including my matchmakers, on the contrary, moved from Vladik to Nsk. I know quite a few people from Novosib who left for Moscow and St. Petersburg. True, this applies more to young people, it is more difficult for old people to adapt to new conditions.
                      2. Andy_nsk
                        Andy_nsk 25 November 2022 13: 37
                        0
                        What to do with such small towns is not an easy question, it is rather addressed to the government, and not to me. I think it is worth developing the processing of agricultural and forest products. The organization of the production of high-quality components for cars and aircraft is very relevant - now most of them are imported.
              2. Mikhail Sidorov
                Mikhail Sidorov 23 November 2022 10: 12
                +12
                Although in the 90s I worked at an enterprise where socialist traditions were maintained for workers, for me personally this time was the best in my life. The last 20 years have been complete darkness with the wages of Putin's middle class.

                At some enterprises in our region, the situation has only worsened compared to the 90s. Some have closed altogether. Now I work where in the 90s, by inertia, they still gave apartments. Wages, the purchasing power of money was higher. The staff was larger and the amount of work correspondingly less. Now I live paycheck to paycheck. I go to zero so to speak. What kind of rest, what resorts.
                1. El Barto
                  El Barto 23 November 2022 12: 28
                  +7
                  And I'll even tell you how it happened. I had to deal with such "modernizations" of enterprises myself.
                  For example, once upon a time there was a rather large (several thousand people) timber industry enterprise. Worked fine, survived the 90s. And at the turn of the 2000s, it was bought up by effective owners (well, how they bought it, bought shares from large shareholders, any local authorities, and partly bought the shares of the labor collective for a penny, partly wrote off even without a trial).
                  And began to modernize. To begin with, all the locals were fired in the cold. And this is in impoverished Karelia, where there are no other jobs.
                  What does it have to do with engineers (instead of them they sent 1,5 Finns - to teach our forestry) and workers (instead of them they dragged a couple of leasing used harvesters + hired teams of fellers from ZapUkra, ready to work for 2 kopecks in bestial conditions without taxes , social security and safety).
                  They instantly switched all deliveries from the local market to the Finns, without gaining anything in terms of prices, volumes, or efficiency in the use of timber leases. Well, etc.
            2. aglet
              aglet 23 November 2022 11: 11
              +10
              "And if we return to our topic, then with a planned economy, we will not be able to organize the production of modern weapons in commodity volumes!"
              somehow the USSR was able to organize the mass production of modern weapons, which the Russian army is still fighting, and Ukraine too. what has bourgeois Russia done in 30 years? a dozen armats and a couple of su57? when we finish the legacy of the USSR, Putin's partners will take us with their bare hands, no matter how we puff out our cheeks here
              1. Andy_nsk
                Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 13: 12
                +1
                somehow the USSR was able to organize the mass production of modern weapons, which the Russian army is still fighting, and Ukraine too. what has bourgeois Russia done in 30 years? a dozen armats and a couple of su57? when we finish the legacy of the USSR, Putin's partners will take us with their bare hands, no matter how we puff out our cheeks here

                The USSR was able to organize the mass production of weapons only due to the fact that 3/4 of the industry worked for the military commissar, and in market economies about 1/10 of industry is employed in the military commissar. In the end, our economy simply began to fall apart on the go, because it could not provide the population not only with essential products, but also with food.
                As for the current economy, it is not a market one, the transition to a market has not been carried out. The current economy is oligarchic according to the principle: "Everything is for friends, the rest - the law"! And the laws are such that it is extremely difficult for independent producers to survive. But this does not mean that it is necessary to return to a planned socialist economy. It is necessary to eliminate the oligarchy and give everyone really equal rights, including in economic activity, then, on a competitive basis, the Defense Ministry will be able to purchase weapons that are really effective. And, of course, first to replace those generals who missed, for example, the purchase of UAVs, communications and intelligence equipment, with really wise specialists.
                1. spektr9
                  spektr9 23 November 2022 16: 16
                  +3
                  The USSR was able to organize the mass production of weapons only due to the fact that 3/4 of the industry worked for the military commissar, and in market economies about 1/10 of the industry is employed in the military commissar

                  In short, idiots who have destroyed a superpower in 30 years, here they tell how to develop the economy
                  And it’s necessary, like in China, you are against the wall point -1)
            3. mz
              mz 23 November 2022 11: 14
              +8
              Andy_nsk (Andrey)
              Under socialism, nothing can be bought, all supplies go through the State Planning Commission. Those. The State Planning Commission plans for the five-year period who should supply what products to whom, "funds" will be allocated.
              Socialism is not equal to the State Planning Commission and the deficit. What you describe happened because of the stupidity of Khrushchev and the top of the then CPSU, which wanted to control everything in the country. And, of course, with the complication of the economy, the State Planning Commission failed to cope.
              Socialism is primarily about a fair (to one degree or another) distribution of the results of labor among members of society.
              Having liquidated all artels (except for collective farms), having actually stolen their property in favor of the state, Khrushchev greatly complicated the work of the State Planning Commission, while not giving people the opportunity to produce the products they need themselves. Artels produced a lot: toys, dishes, furniture, radios (hi-tec of those times), shells of mines and shells during the Second World War. While maintaining the artels, the deficit you indicated could well have been avoided.
              1. El Barto
                El Barto 23 November 2022 13: 10
                +5
                Modern monopoly capitalism (where there are 1-2 producers of a transnational company for any kind of product/commodity all over the world) is in fact even more regulated by planning than Soviet socialism. Only it is not the State Planning Committee that plans, but the corresponding divisions of those very TNCs.
                The relative well-being of some regions of the world is determined not by "market" but by a completely planned redistribution of wealth from one region to another (in fact, the robbery of the world periphery in favor of the world center).
                Some call it neo-colonialism
                1. Andy_nsk
                  Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 13: 51
                  +2
                  Modern monopoly capitalism (where there are 1-2 producers of a transnational company for any kind of product/commodity all over the world) is in fact even more regulated by planning than Soviet socialism.

                  That's right, in multinational companies, planning is very rigid. But, firstly, they plan only their own production (for example, car manufacturers plan to produce and sell only their own cars). And Gosplan planned everything: from nails to spaceships, and therefore could not solve this problem. This is just unreal!
                  Secondly, there is competition between companies, the existence of monopolies is limited by law, so if planning is inefficient in some company, it will quickly burn out and others will take its place.
              2. Andy_nsk
                Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 13: 24
                +3
                Socialism is primarily about a fair (to one degree or another) distribution of the results of labor among members of society.

                Perhaps you and I are talking about the same thing, but in different words. For me, socialism is a planned economy. In principle, I do not deny other types of property, including state and municipal, there is no need to bring any idea to insanity. If we recall China, then they were smart enough to show flexibility and introduce market relations of production, while maintaining elements of both state capitalism and socialism. Any extremes lead to nothing good.
                1. mz
                  mz 23 November 2022 17: 26
                  -1
                  Quote from Andy_nsk
                  For me, socialism is a planned economy.

                  In this interpretation, I already agree with you.) yes:
                2. IImonolitII
                  IImonolitII 24 November 2022 12: 35
                  +1
                  What are the elements of socialism in China? There are no free apartments, medicine, pensions. Workers assemble electronics for pennies, surplus value in the pockets of capital. Ordinary capitalism, only the "communist" party
                  1. Sergej1972
                    Sergej1972 25 November 2022 11: 55
                    0
                    In some former socialist countries, a significant part of the housing was not allocated to citizens under a social lease agreement, as in the USSR, but was bought by residents. For example, in Yugoslavia, partly in Bulgaria, Hungary, Poland, many people had apartments in apartment buildings in their personal property, it could be sold and bought. Although there was also housing for social rent. But the population sought to have housing in the property. Here one of the Bulgarian users wrote that even during socialism in Bulgaria, most of the apartments, and not just houses, were privately owned, they could be inherited. Plus, analogues of our housing cooperatives have been developed much more in European socialist countries. In the Yugoslav People's Army, officers were not allocated apartments, they simply received salaries sufficient to buy their own housing. This did not exclude the presence of temporary service housing and dormitories.
              3. Sergej1972
                Sergej1972 25 November 2022 11: 41
                0
                You forgot to mention consumer cooperation, which had its own enterprises and shops. Consumer cooperation, in contrast to trade cooperation, was not eliminated. Prospecting artels were also not liquidated.
            4. awdrgy
              awdrgy 23 November 2022 11: 54
              +5
              I worked for a private trader in the form of an individual entrepreneur, as well as in various JSCs and CJSCs as a worker (turner, locksmith, brick picker and loader, etc.) From my own experience I see that I had to work a lot in comparison with budget organizations, and wages comparable. The attitude of the employer is worse, and the truth can only be found using non-standard methods)) with subsequent dismissal, of course. I would like to note that although the situation with the attitude towards the employee has improved somewhat in recent years in the labor market as a whole, this is largely due to a certain weakening of the control of the owners (they put a manager in their place). For myself, I concluded that working for a private trader can only be used by me as a part-time job for the main job on a budget, and that is a lot of buts. After 40, in connection with the deterioration of health, I generally dismissed this option as unpromising and dangerous for the well-being of the family for which I am responsible. The most effective part-time work turned out to be "on oneself". In general, in the provinces, for the most part, the economy "collapses", here both demography and the withdrawal of capital, plus one hundred and five hundred other reasons. Several cities with a high level of wages in which there is a large influx of population can be conditionally attributed to the capital. Mining and agriculture are in a separate line. regions, there is less dependence on demographics. Therefore, you should always indicate which region is the capital or not, as well as the field of activity and the approximate position.
            5. Lyuba1965_01
              Lyuba1965_01 23 November 2022 12: 45
              +9
              I'm sorry to interrupt your conversation, but...
              I spit on any cosmetics.
              I want free education, medicine, sports.
              How, so that teenagers, leaving for competitions, do not look for sponsors of the trip, so that it is free.
              How many guys in the USSR sports pulled into people, saved from prison.
              But now sport is available to those who have money.
              I want Pioneer Palaces, like in the USSR.
              In our city Palace of Pioneers there were about 40 different circles and all for free.
              The children of workers and wealthier people went there.
              He gave many, as they say, a ticket to life.
              And they didn't pay a dime for it.
              I want a normal education, without Solzhenitsyn in the program.
              I want a pioneer organization - it gave the children the opportunity not to hang out on the street, doing something interesting and useful (with the exception of its already late time).
              And what do I need against the backdrop of such benefits and benefits a set of this tattered cosmetics?
              To trade everything we had for cosmetics, jeans and the opportunity to drag our asses around Europe and Bali?
              Yes, there were so many places in the USSR that they could not be visited in a lifetime.
              Beautiful and diverse nature, many monuments of history and architecture of different times and peoples...
              And I was also crazy that I don’t know how much I will have to spend in the store today, because prices are rising every day.
              And I'm tired of waiting for NG, because I know that there will be another increase in housing and communal services.
              I want stability.
              I want to plan my expenses at least six months in advance.
              And to know that my savings will not be devoured by inflation.
              Chhat (I still express myself in a culinary way) I wanted all these "benefits" of capitalism, if they took away from me what was more expensive than these clothes and trips.
              1. Andy_nsk
                Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 15: 29
                +1

                I spit on any cosmetics

                You know, me too. But it's not about cosmetics, they have a general shortage, including milk and other food products. As we have at the end of socialism. And this general deficit, queues, "getting through the pull" most of all got it. Even with money on hand, much was inaccessible. And I categorically do not want to go into life with the leading and guiding role of the CPSU. Sheer hypocrisy, lies, "concern for the workers." I don't even want to remember how tired it all was.
                1. Lyuba1965_01
                  Lyuba1965_01 23 November 2022 17: 54
                  +9
                  Are you saying there is less hypocrisy now???
                  Party leadership?
                  And to hell with her, let her be the leader.
                  I even agree to sit at Komsomol meetings, it was just what I said.
                  As for me, this is a very small price for everything that we had.
                  And yet, yes ... then the workers were cared for much more than they are now.
                  However, I'm not entirely right.
                  Now they don’t think about them at all, because there are practically no workers left.
                  Wherever you spit, managers, top managers, accountants and lawyers, bankers are everywhere.
                  But at the same time, however, they work as peddlers in cafes or sit at the checkout in stores.
                  Being a working person has become not something that is not prestigious, but ashamed.
                  Worker?
                  So, life has failed, you stupid nonentity.
                  And therefore, although some factories are being built, there is no one to work there.
                  But for the place of the coffee carrier in the office there is a real fight.
                  Previously, they built new cities, factories, factories.
                  Now, no enterprise will be able to work without foreign investors or foreign components.
                  The investor is an angel from heaven!
                  Foreign investor - God!
                  They survived ... a country that was self-sufficient in everything, now it will not live a day without foreign investors.
                  1. Andy_nsk
                    Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 18: 20
                    -3
                    workers were much more cared for then than they are now.

                    instead of taking care of the workers, they are not children and not disabled. Workers should be able to earn a decent living and should be able to spend the money they earn on the goods they need. Under socialism, I did not have such an opportunity, now I have.
                    Now, no enterprise will be able to work without foreign investors or foreign components.

                    It is not true, there are such enterprises, I know several, incl. where I work.
                    Being a working person has become not something that is not prestigious, but ashamed.
                    Worker?
                    So, life has failed, you stupid nonentity.

                    I have been working in production for more than forty years, I started under socialism. And good workers have always been valued, they are valued even now. True, now an intelligent engineer is valued more than a worker, and this is true: for example, I have been preparing very hard for my profession for 19 years (school, institute, graduate school). It is enough for a worker to complete an eight-year plan and a vocational school, without particularly straining either there or there.
                2. aglet
                  aglet 24 November 2022 09: 39
                  0
                  "a general shortage, including milk and other foodstuffs. Like we have at the end of socialism"
                  this general deficit at the decline of socialism was arranged by the skillful hands of Gorbachev under the control of the West in order to hasten the decline of this very socialism
                  1. Andy_nsk
                    Andy_nsk 24 November 2022 09: 55
                    0
                    this general deficit at the decline of socialism was arranged by the skillful hands of Gorbachev under the control of the West

                    I don’t think, I read that the collapse of the USSR was a complete surprise for Western special services, it rotted from the inside, I was already an adult, I remember well the attitude of the people towards the CPSU, the State Emergency Committee, Gorbachev and his government. Everyone was outraged and dissatisfied. Everything is according to Lenin: "The top cannot govern in the old way, the lower classes do not want to live in the old way!" I well remember the miners sitting in the squares and banging their helmets on the asphalt. What the US leadership really did was to get the Arabs to reduce oil prices, and without petrodollars, our economy collapsed, because even wheat was bought in Canada, the economy was inefficient and did not provide the population even with essential goods.
            6. Seamaster
              Seamaster 23 November 2022 13: 03
              +3
              And why not turn your daughter to Guatemala or Haiti - is it nearby? And there is capitalism. Probably, there all the inhabitants drink chardonnay and lie around the pool? Shchas! If there is clean poverty in Cuba, then there is wild POVERTY.
              1. Andy_nsk
                Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 14: 06
                +2
                And why not turn your daughter to Guatemala or Haiti - is it nearby? And there is capitalism.

                There is an oligarchy, just like we have now, only in a tougher form. They do not have the resources as in the Russian Federation.
                Notice that no one cited in their examples a successful non-market economy, but there are many examples of all kinds of perverted economies (oligarchy, state capitalism, socialism), and it is they who are in the majority on earth, sadly.
                1. El Barto
                  El Barto 23 November 2022 17: 13
                  +3
                  There is no such thing as a non-market economy. The market has always existed since the division of labor arose. And it will always be in any socio-economic system, even with pure ideal communism (unless, of course, each person has a car to satisfy all needs and unlimited resources) He was in the USSR, and is in the DPRK.
                  The question is not in the market, but in the methods of its regulation
                  1. Andy_nsk
                    Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 18: 02
                    -2
                    There is no such thing as a non-market economy

                    I agree, and the fact that the Bolsheviks planted for 70 years is unnatural. But there is a perverted market, regulated by the state (state capitalism), there is a market "for their own", based on the receipt of natural rent (oligarchy).
                    1. El Barto
                      El Barto 23 November 2022 19: 56
                      +3
                      Excuse me, you wrote nonsense. The Bolsheviks "implanted" a normal market, supplemented by a system of social security and a fair distribution of benefits.
                      What is perverted is not the market regulated by the state, but quite the contrary, the so-called. "free" or rather wild market
                      1. Andy_nsk
                        Andy_nsk 24 November 2022 08: 44
                        0
                        The Bolsheviks "implanted" a normal market, supplemented by a system of social security and a fair distribution of benefits.

                        Sorry, but you write nonsense. The Bolsheviks imposed a planned economy, there was no regulated market in the USSR, and as for the wild market, it existed in Europe in the 19th century, in our country in the 90s of the last century, and I did not advocate a wild market in any post. market, on the contrary, I believe that the state should redistribute the income received from the sale of natural resources for the public benefit, and not in favor of the oligarchs, as it is now.
        2. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 23 November 2022 10: 47
          +7
          Quote from Andy_nsk

          Those. Do you want to liquidate private property and transfer the enterprises into the hands of "red directors"? This will immediately reduce the efficiency of work at times.

          Are you saying that the owner of the enterprise manages the work of the enterprise, and not the technical director appointed by him?
          And if the enterprise is nationalized, and the technical director remains in his place, like all engineers, will the efficiency of work still decrease significantly?
          What actually is the owner for those. director and engineer of the enterprise? Whip and nothing more. But can the whip be only in the hands of the owner? It may also be in the hands of a state "representative", i.e. superior, who, in turn, also had a whip.
          I, too, all my life, for 43 years, worked at the same enterprise, which was in different guises, from the state. to ZAO, and therefore, I also "have experience".
          1. El Barto
            El Barto 23 November 2022 12: 58
            +6
            It depends. Most often, a large owner turns the enterprise simply into a "production site" with a minimum of employees - a few workers, a couple of engineers, a director, a personnel officer.
            And all the rest are centralized at the head office, where one accountant-lawyer-financier or God forgive me "project manager" has a salary greater than the entire wage fund of the entire "production site"
          2. Andy_nsk
            Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 12: 59
            0
            Are you saying that the owner of the enterprise manages the work of the enterprise, and not the technical director appointed by him?

            Yes, that's right, the founder of the enterprise, director and owner all rolled into one. And he spends more time at the enterprise than any worker and engineer. I have not seen a more efficient form of management.
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 23 November 2022 17: 31
              +6
              Quote from Andy_nsk

              Yes, that's right, the founder of the enterprise, director and owner all rolled into one. And he spends more time at the enterprise than any worker and engineer. I have not seen a more efficient form of management.

              So it's not about ownership, who owns the enterprise, it's about the organization of production. What makes you think that only its owner can properly organize production, and the state. director can't do it? This is a simple idiologeme hammered into your head in the 90s.
              And life has proved to us that most of those who "buyed out" the production simply destroyed these productions, without creating anything new in their place.
              1. Andy_nsk
                Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 17: 43
                +2
                This is a simple idiologeme hammered into your head in the 90s.
                And life has proved to us that most of those who "buyed out" the production simply destroyed these productions, without creating anything new in their place.

                It’s hard for me to drive something into my head, in the nineties I was already an adult man and with my opinion based on great life experience and deep knowledge.
                And my boss did not buy anything, everything was created from scratch, and my contribution to the work was also not the last. As for the state-appointed directors: firstly, these appointees are promoted to the top most often through connections, and secondly, there are many corrupt officials among them. But the market, if it is a normal market based on competition, and not an oligarchic market for its own, very quickly filters out such appointees.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 23 November 2022 19: 21
                  +3
                  Quote from Andy_nsk
                  everything was created from scratch, and my contribution to the work was also not the last.

                  Your boss will die, his relatives will come, such as our Viktor Palych-Antibiotic, and the Khan of your enterprise.
                  1. Andy_nsk
                    Andy_nsk 24 November 2022 09: 46
                    0
                    Your boss will die, his relatives will come, such as our Viktor Palych-Antibiotic, and the Khan of your enterprise.

                    This is what Grandma said in two. Firstly, I know his relatives (children and son-in-law, we work together), they are unlikely to seek to destroy the enterprise, most likely they will try to find a replacement for the boss. Secondly, even if the enterprise goes bankrupt, it will only mean a change of ownership: the enterprises of the oil and gas complex will gladly take it into their ownership, I have plenty of such examples before my eyes.
            2. Sergej1972
              Sergej1972 25 November 2022 12: 19
              0
              Well, in the West, such enterprises produce a smaller part of the products, and they mainly belong to micro, small and medium businesses. In large corporations, especially transnational ones, things have not been the same for a long time. In some countries, there are even certain limits, upon reaching which the enterprise is obliged to become a joint-stock company.
          3. your1970
            your1970 23 November 2022 13: 37
            +2
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Are you saying that the owner of the enterprise manages the work of the enterprise, and not the technical director appointed by him?
            And if the enterprise is nationalized, and the technical director remains in his place, like all engineers, will the efficiency of work still decrease significantly?

            And where did you get that
            1) will the technical director remain the same? He will fly out first ...
            2) and if he stays - then "a bad omen - to go into the forest at night with a trunk" which could come true under the owner and quite brazen theft - will disappear for him.
            And he will negotiate with the higher authorities and the security forces. And his hands will be untied.
            A banal example is that metalworkers have been collecting ferrous metal in the fields for 20 years, something that was abandoned by tractor drivers once. And now try the tractor driver, throw a hydraulic cylinder, a seeder or a harrow into the field ....
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 23 November 2022 17: 53
              +3
              Quote: your1970
              1) will the technical director remain the same? He will fly out first ...

              1. Where did you get it from? Or do you want to?
              2. About this, at one time, and not bad, OBKhSS took care. It was with a hunchback that their work was limited, and then completely banned by the adoption of new laws.
              Quote: your1970
              A banal example is that metalworkers have been collecting ferrous metal in the fields for 20 years,

              This is because the director of the state farm (the chairman of the collective farm) was in the wrong place, and not because the owner was not there. It was just that the government was very kind. And the government, in theory, should be extremely tough and fair. With such power, just without the "owner", due to his absence, the state will flourish. And people will live without fear for the future and will forget about the minimum wage as an anachronism.
              1. your1970
                your1970 23 November 2022 19: 47
                +1
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                1. Where did you get it from? Or do you want to?
                - "Yes, he's a zhuuulik !!! he's voor! he stole a lot under the old owner !!" - those who will move THEIR director will shout ... Do you have doubts - that those who want to have his a piece from the plant will be small?


                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                2. About this, at one time, and not bad, OBKhSS took care.
                - and you believe????
                When Bobkov said that "the KGB began work on catching traffic cops after they started taking more than 3 rubles from their noses.
                When, in the 1980s, the 1st secretary of the regional committee in Mary had to be arrested by the forces of the Iolotansky DSHB - because the entire Department of Internal Affairs refused to comply with Moscow's order to arrest?
                When in the 1970s Ingush-gold in Magadan and Kolyma was taken by the KGB - and at the same time they took 1 tons (!!!!!) of gold.
                When did the iron formula “You give me, I give you!” work?
                Oh well....

                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                This is because the director of the state farm (the chairman of the collective farm) was in the wrong place, and not because the owner was not
                - every year at Easter we drowned around 2-3-4 tractors. Drunk ..
                And so it was not only for us - it was so in the Samara, Sverdlovsk, Penza and Kursk regions - I was there in the 1970s.
                And judging by the fact - how many announcements on the acceptance of metal throughout the country - it was absolutely the same everywhere.

                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                And the government, in theory, should be extremely tough and fair.

                According to the law and justice, tractor drivers should have received 10 years under the Criminal Code of the RSFSR.
                And their children had to lose everything in their lives because dads are criminals.
                But the whole joke is that the population would run from such villages. It already fixed the collective farmers to the villages with a residence permit, passports, but the population left anyway.
        3. Non-fighter
          Non-fighter 23 November 2022 15: 59
          +6
          Dear author! You were just lucky and you did not see the "animal grin of capitalism." There are no honest people among businessmen.
          The essence of business is making money AT ANY COST!!!! The fastest and easiest way is the way of deception. A businessman will always pay not as much as he promised, but so much that "you can't do less". The first person to be deceived by business is its own employees. Tested on myself and more than once, I'm not a boy anymore, 50+ all the same.
          1. Andy_nsk
            Andy_nsk 23 November 2022 17: 55
            +1
            The essence of business is making money AT ANY COST!!!! The fastest and easiest way is the way of deception. A businessman will always pay not as much as he promised, but so much that "you can't do less". The first person to be deceived by business is its own employees. Tested on myself and more than once, I'm not a boy anymore, 50+ all the same.

            I am 60+ and I think I have seen more of yours in my life. Have you heard, for example, about Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk? Do you think their business was based on deception? As for the deception of his employees, he will go to hell in some auto repair shop or barbecue. In high-tech production, deceiving employees (if it is not a janitor), and a person tied to development and production is more expensive for himself. They know too much, a lot depends on them, and if such a valuable worker gets offended and leaves, this will lead to big losses. There are irreplaceable people and an attempt to replace it can lead to the complete collapse of the company.
            1. Non-fighter
              Non-fighter 23 November 2022 19: 20
              +4
              I know otherwise. Somehow I wandered around Moscow in search of a job, passed 50+ interviews - well, I had holes in my resume. So, the only place where I was offered a "white" salary is a foreign company. Time - March 2014 approx. So we are paid a "white" salary, that is, they do not deceive either VERY large companies, since they are well looked after, or foreigners. Unfortunately we no longer have them :(
              The irreplaceable may not be offended, but the rest are thrown.
            2. ada
              ada 23 November 2022 22: 31
              0
              Quote from Andy_nsk
              ... and if such a valuable worker gets offended and leaves, it will lead to big losses. There are irreplaceable people and an attempt to replace it can lead to the complete collapse of the company.

              I'm sorry, everything is very interesting, poetic, capitalistic - utopian ... That is, in wartime the stability of your production is low, there is no reserve, backup and training of personnel and you do not participate in the general system, you do not contain a mobilization production reserve, evacuation measures and work planning according to the plans of explosives, do not prepare, do not keep areas and facilities and equipment in remote areas in safe areas, as well as transport for the removal of work shifts and their families, industrial stocks and products ... and if the "krantik" of supplies is "twisted" to you ", and the staff will be "knocked down", then what - fsooo? . Ah, I'm embarrassed, but I'll ask, what do you hope for in the future? How will capitalist production be secured in wartime? What is the value of such an enterprise for a country in a war? (It is not required to disclose what is not necessary).
              Yes, they were amused: "... Have you heard, for example, about Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk? Do you think their business was based on ...".
              1. Andy_nsk
                Andy_nsk 24 November 2022 08: 32
                0
                in wartime, the stability of your production is low

                Why do you think so? We have the latest equipment, machine tools, highly qualified personnel, I think we will be able to produce the most sophisticated defense equipment. Moreover, we already have a small topic of defense significance, there is a first department and a military representative at the enterprise. True, in comparison with our main topic, the defense one is very small in volume, a microdepartment of two electronic engineers is working, they are developing special products, and for us this work does not provide economic benefits, the work is carried out mainly through financing by the enterprise, there, moreover there are a lot of purely organizational problems, for example, all components on special topics must be paid for in a separate account, and, for example, chip resistors come in coils of 5000 pieces, and for us to work on special. The theme needs 5 pieces, and what should I do?
                Or clever people from special services came up with. that it is impossible to make parts on imported CNC machines (allegedly spies will steal secrets), you have to sharpen on old universal Soviet-made machines ... in general, there is a lot of dope in Rus' ...
                1. ada
                  ada 24 November 2022 13: 26
                  0
                  Then it's better than I imagined, thanks for the clarification. But, tell me, would you refuse to receive the required 5 pieces, and not the whole coil centrally, for example, according to a separate supply plan? Now, if you knew for sure that you have a choice of graduates of educational organizations and institutions in the relevant profile every year, that you have the opportunity to form and track your order for personnel training, train and practice them in your production and influence the process of providing personnel in other ways, beyond the market ones, would you give up these opportunities? Now, if it were possible to provide workers with housing, have a share in places in preschool organizations and institutions for their children, maintain a suburban facility, say, a recreation center and operate with other social factors to secure workers in place, would you refuse such an opportunity?
                  If not difficult.
                  1. Andy_nsk
                    Andy_nsk 24 November 2022 14: 06
                    0
                    would you refuse to receive the required 5 pcs., and not the whole coil centrally, let's say according to a separate supply plan?

                    It would be very inconvenient and I think it would drag out the deadlines. What's the point? 5 resistors cost 25 p. Is it worth it to arrange a dance with tambourines? It is much easier and much faster for us to take them from our warehouse and not take into account small things at all when concluding a contract. In addition, it is extremely inconvenient to install five resistors in the feeder for automatic installation of components, we will definitely throw out half, it is more convenient to work with standard coils.
                    Now, if you knew for sure that you have a choice of graduates of educational organizations and institutions in the relevant profile every year, that you have the opportunity to form and track your order for personnel training, train and practice them in your production and influence the process of providing personnel in other ways, in excess of the market

                    I don't know what market staffing is. Alumni pay? I was recently offered to take two graduate students, I talked to them, I was ready to provide the topics of diplomas and was ready to be the head of graduation projects, but when I found out that after the defense they were not going to work at our enterprise, I refused.
                    We have an agreement with one of the local colleges, we constantly see interns at work. It is worse with universities, but we are ready to organize internships. Our OK is trying to communicate with universities, but to no avail, I myself have plans to communicate with deans or departments.
                    Now, if it were possible to provide housing for workers

                    We practice the purchase of apartments for employees, for example, they bought me a three-room apartment in 1998 after fulfilling a very serious contract, in which my role was decisive. And there are many such cases. But, of course, no one will buy an apartment for young professionals who have not shown themselves in any way.
                    have a share in places in preschool organizations and institutions for their children

                    To be honest, I don’t see much point, I have three grandchildren, all went through municipal DS, one had to go to a private DS for six months - while they waited in line.
                    I also don’t see the point in bothering with my own rest home - it’s easier to buy a ticket. Local holiday homes are not in great demand, we, Siberians, after frosts, want to go to the warm sea :)
          2. AdAstra
            AdAstra 27 November 2022 11: 27
            0
            It would be possible to give you 1000 pluses. """"
      7. your vsr 66-67
        your vsr 66-67 23 November 2022 08: 06
        +22
        We need to return to the recipes tested by the Great Patriotic War.
        Who to return with? With the oligarchs? With the Abramovichs and Galkins?
        Now it’s not the USSR, but sold Russia! With all the riches of the bowels, with an ideology that does not exist, plundered, with a poor people who do not know and do not understand for what and for whom they should die!
        1. dmi.pris
          dmi.pris 23 November 2022 09: 16
          +11
          That's right, people will not fight for THIS. What kind of united society? Unite with a gang of thieves? No, if you please
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 23 November 2022 09: 30
            -21
            Quote: dmi.pris
            That's right, people will not fight for THIS.

            And we are not fighting for them. We are for ourselves. For the right to speak Russian, to raise children as we want, and not as they are, etc.....

            They are just against the war - they have grandmothers, real estate, wives, mistresses and children there.

            Everyone who is against this war (NVO), discredits our army (a pig will find dirt everywhere) - stand up for their interests.

            Quote: dmi.pris
            What is a united society?

            80% support the commander-in-chief - is this not enough?

            During the coexistence of Rus', Russia, the USSR and again Russia, princes, tsars, general secretaries and presidents have changed, but Russia has been, is and will be!

            ps
            Appeal to the remnants of the white armies.



            Since the age of 18, Russian blood has been shed in the internecine war. All call themselves fighters for the people. The White government turned out to be insolvent and unsupported by the people: the Whites were defeated and fled to Constantinople. Soviet power is the only power representing Russia and its people

            I, Slashchev-Krymsky, call you, officers and soldiers, to submit to Soviet power and return to your homeland, otherwise you are mercenaries of foreign capital and, even worse, traitors against your homeland and your own people. After all, every minute you can be sent to conquer Russian regions. Of course, they will pay you for this, but those who sent you will receive all the material and territorial benefits and make the Russian people slaves, and the people will curse you. You were frightened by the fact that returning whites are subjected to various repressions.

            I went, checked and made sure that the past was forgotten. Gen. came with me. Milkovsky Colonel Gilbikh, several officers and my wife, and now, as one of the highest fingertips of the volunteer army, I recommend you - follow me, do not believe the gossip about Russia and do not dare to sell out in order to go to war against Russia, but “I demand submission to the Soviet government to protect the homeland and its people.

            Slashchev-Krymsky. Nov 21 Dec 1921

            Thinking one with Slashchev and signing his appeal, we, in turn, appeal to everyone who knows us, believes us and sincerely loves their homeland without any hesitation to follow this call.

            Mshikovokmy and Gilbikh.
            1. Mikhail Sidorov
              Mikhail Sidorov 23 November 2022 10: 20
              -6
              And we are not fighting for them. We are for ourselves. For the right to speak Russian, to raise children as we want, and not as they are, etc.....

              Yes, I agree. I know you are a supporter of the current government. They have too many mistakes. But I don't support revolutions. Let's overthrow Russia. Only changes through elections.
              During the coexistence of Rus', Russia, the USSR and again Russia, princes, tsars, general secretaries and presidents have changed, but Russia has been, is and will be!

              Yes, Russia is more than a thousand years old. God willing it will stay that long.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 23 November 2022 11: 20
                    +8
                    Quote: Boris55
                    You broadcast from there and your calls for a violent change of power do not apply to you in our articles of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation?

                    Boris' - I've been living in Togliatti, Samara region, for almost 50 years already.
                    Maybe stop chewing these Fedorov mantras?
                    1. Boris55
                      Boris55 23 November 2022 11: 37
                      -4
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Boris' - I live in Togliatti Samara

                      I don’t understand how a person living in Russia can, like the West, want the destruction of his state ...

                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Maybe stop chewing these Fedorov mantras?

                      Fedorov is an enemy, an active participant in the negotiations on the issue of "Rus, get back!". And by the way. The Criminal Code of the Russian Federation applies to the Samara region.

                      What we are fighting for - video in the comment below.
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 23 November 2022 12: 24
                        +2
                        Quote: Boris55
                        want the destruction of their state ...

                        That's right, the state, not the country. For now it is an anti-people state, judging by its actions.
                      2. Wedmak
                        Wedmak 23 November 2022 12: 32
                        -2
                        The CIA is just now looking for Russians to recruit. You are a very tasty target for them.
                      3. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 23 November 2022 12: 42
                        +5
                        Quote: Wedmak
                        The CIA is just now looking for Russians to recruit.

                        They lack agents of a higher rank. Mayor of Tolyatti Nikolai Renz, honorary member of the Rotary Club. Google what the organization is and where its headquarters is. hi
                        PS Oh yes, I forgot, he is another of the main United Russia members in Togliatti. laughing
                      4. Boris55
                        Boris55 24 November 2022 08: 26
                        +2
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        now an anti-people state

                        The slogan: "We love our homeland, but we hate the state" is the slogan of Vlasovites of all stripes. It was under him that the Nazis recruited traitors to fight against the Motherland. Don't fall for their tricks.

                        "The state is a system of survival, preservation and development of the people"
                      5. AA17
                        AA17 23 November 2022 12: 53
                        +5
                        Dear Boris55.
                        If this is WAR, then what kind of trade relations can Russia have with the Enemy in oil and gas? Russia sells oil so that the Enemies fuel their military equipment to kill our soldiers? Does Russia supply gas so that European enterprises of the military-industrial complex produce weapons to kill our soldiers?
                        Do you have any relatives or friends who participate in SVO????????????
                2. Dante Alighieri
                  Dante Alighieri 23 November 2022 11: 15
                  +3
                  Now there is only hope for a revolution. Military.

                  The military in Russia has traditionally never been a political force (here the key role was played by the very specificity of an army man, who was more likely to obey someone else's will than to broadcast his own), and those of them who tried to change the situation either quickly found themselves out of work (aka Zhukov) , or quickly left the list of the living (aka Rokhlin). So I would not hope for their "civic consciousness". Ordinary soldiers can still act as a driving mass of popular anger, but regular soldiers definitely can't.
                  1. Fan-fan
                    Fan-fan 23 November 2022 15: 21
                    +2
                    The military in Russia has traditionally never been a political force

                    Wrong. Rokhlin was just killed, because they saw that he was becoming a political force. Or here's an example from history - Admiral Kolchak, wasn't he a political force?
                    1. Dante Alighieri
                      Dante Alighieri 23 November 2022 21: 10
                      +1
                      Or here's an example from history - Admiral Kolchak, wasn't he a political force?

                      He was, but I'm not sure how independent he was like other leaders of the white movement, and therefore did not include him in this list. In fact, if you delve into history, the only period when our army decided something was the end of the 17th - the beginning of the 18th century, when first the archers, and then the guards helped to overthrow the old and install new monarchs, but it was still connected with the formation of the nobility as a service class and its confrontation with the tribal aristocracy - the boyars. After this process was completed, there were no precedents when the army decided something. The Decembrists and those were suppressed, although among them there were quite a few veterans of the Patriotic War of 1812. The last emperor was no longer overthrown by the army, but by the court bourgeoisie, coupled with the highest officials
                3. Mikhail Sidorov
                  Mikhail Sidorov 23 November 2022 11: 35
                  -3
                  Fair elections that will never happen. Now there is only hope for a revolution. Military.
                  Oh how. Do you want to drown Russia in blood?
                  Everything is clear to you. I didn’t like you even after my registration when I argued with you in December or January, I don’t remember exactly. I didn't mistake you.
                  1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
                    Sergey Aleksandrovich 24 November 2022 21: 35
                    +1
                    Were not mistaken. I have exactly the same conclusions.
                4. Wedmak
                  Wedmak 23 November 2022 11: 39
                  +1
                  M ... the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation is somewhere near you looming.
                5. El Barto
                  El Barto 23 November 2022 13: 17
                  0
                  There has never been anything good from military coups anywhere. If you want a coup, remember Chile.
                  And there have never been military coups in Russia. Do not consider them the top "guards" coups. Or shooter riots. From which nothing good came out either
                  1. Fan-fan
                    Fan-fan 23 November 2022 15: 28
                    +2
                    Why not? The military brought Catherine II to power.
                    And a revolution can be accomplished with little bloodshed, for example, our bourgeois revolution in February 1917. And there is no need to try to “sew” an article of the Criminal Code for commentators here, since no one here expressed calls for revolution.
                6. your1970
                  your1970 23 November 2022 14: 17
                  0
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Quote: Mikhail Sidorov
                  Only changes through elections.

                  Fair elections that will never happen. Now there is only hope for a revolution. Military.

                  Mmmm .... why such confidence - that it will be for good peopleSomehow in all countries of the world where it happened in the 20th and early 21st centuries - no one stuttered about the people ...
                  Or is the main thing for you, so that everything is taken away from the current ones?
                  They will completely take it away, easily and naturally - to themselves ...
                  And then according to the principle "There are 3 ways of doing business - right, wrong and military" (c) I don’t remember the author
                  So what the fuck - such a hope ..
                  1. Fan-fan
                    Fan-fan 23 November 2022 15: 32
                    +4
                    Maybe you don't care, because there is something to lose. And a significant part of the population has nothing to lose, especially those who are below the poverty line. And there are more and more poor people.
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 23 November 2022 17: 07
                      +1
                      Quote: Fan-Fan
                      Maybe you don't care, because there is something to lose.
                      you also have something to lose if the military comes to power - they usually took those who were dissatisfied to the ravine .. or gathered them to stadiums .... or threw them out of helicopters ... there were a lot of ways under a military dictatorship ...

                      Quote: Fan-Fan
                      especially those below the poverty line. And there are more and more poor people.
                      - really poor? Or those "20 million" mythical ones that include all those who fled the country? Well, they are officially unemployed - - which means beggars - all these tiktokers / bloggers and so on ....
                      M. Baghdasaryan - was also LEGALLY beggar - she had no job, no income, no housing, no car - she didn’t have her own ...
                7. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 23 November 2022 15: 31
                  +3
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Fair elections that will never happen. Now there is only hope for a revolution. Military.

                  Do you yourself believe in it? Our army sat quietly even during the First Chechen War (with its regular agreements and leaks at all levels), which ended in the Khasavyurt disgrace.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 23 November 2022 16: 05
                    -2
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Do you yourself believe in that?

                    Hope.....
            2. dmi.pris
              dmi.pris 23 November 2022 11: 17
              +5
              About 80% of the "supporting" commander-in-chief, they made fun ..... This is in the dreams and fake reports of the Kremlin propagandists ...
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 23 November 2022 10: 41
            +6
            Quote: dmi.pris
            Unite with a gang of thieves? No, if you please

            About six years ago, I cited just such a position, citing the example of the Domodedovo airport, whose owner Bastrykin could not find. Somewhere offshore, they say. There he is, Abramovich, looking out of the offshore.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 23 November 2022 11: 32
              -3
              If someone does not understand what we are fighting for: https://youtu.be/TMg66dPpEYI

          3. nickname7
            nickname7 23 November 2022 13: 12
            +3
            What unified society? Unite with a gang of thieves?

            Here you can look for experience in world history, the last 200 years of capitalism and there have been quite a few wars, i.e. a society of rich and poor somehow solved the problem of why the population should fight.
            I will refer to the article how the rich in the states sagged, it turns out that during the Vietnam War Trump was of military age but slumped with a certificate of heel spurs, Biden also slumped with asthma, their elite did not go to war, just as part of ordinary Americans ran away from being drafted to others country, but in spite of everything, the United States has recruited enough troops.
            Also in Western countries progressive taxes through which the rich contribute to the development of the country and to victory. The rich are more valuable with their money than sitting in a foxhole.
            In the Russian Federation, big capital categorically refuses progressive taxes, which means it does not contribute to either the country or the victory, here the West has a great advantage over the Russian Federation.
            1. Sergej1972
              Sergej1972 25 November 2022 12: 35
              0
              You forget about the big taxes paid by legal entities owned by these rich people. And the discussion about a flat or progressive tax already concerns their personal income as individuals.
          4. Alexey Kargojarvinen
            Alexey Kargojarvinen 23 November 2022 21: 40
            0
            But I agree!!! I agree with this expression of thought!
      8. Woroshilow
        Woroshilow 23 November 2022 09: 19
        +7
        No, we are not officially at war, everything is fine in the country, and if you start doubting it publicly, remember!!! They will give you 15 years of a stricter, and already from the IK you will go through the PMC to the NVO. And so everything is fine, everything is fine, everything is fine.
      9. Shark Lover
        Shark Lover 23 November 2022 09: 38
        +13
        I’m not a supporter of writing like that, but I’ll write, I’m tormented by a lot of questions, there are no answers.
        - unity of the people in the country;
        Around what, whom? Ideology one-earn. 30 years old, all hucksters, yes hucksters, they are held in high esteem. There were, God forbid, that they were
        - discipline in the troops from private to marshal
        Here is also a question. A junior officer is taught to command (he himself was such a lieutenant at 85 m.) But commanding a conscript is one thing, a contract soldier is another. But the cherry on top, how to command the mobilized men? I came to the DRA as a lieutenant -21 years old. My deputy, sergeant, Antonov, -22 years old, a medal for courage, looked at me as if I were a child. But nothing, they worked. And here, Lieutenant, Starley and men are 40 years old. They don’t teach, it’s difficult, very difficult
        the restructuring of industry on a war footing and the mobilization of the economy (hello to private property!)
        I agree. But, these hucksters have been owners there since the 90s. They only need to be wetted to take everything. It's not easy, 30 overgrown with power, they won't let you in.
        a single official information body and the most severe censorship;
        100% agree. Artamonov says they have already started, maybe it's true.
        - counterintelligence everywhere and at all levels, secrecy.
        They need a goal. Part of the internal enemy, part of the external. Accordingly, SMERSH, NKVD)))))
        To be honest, I want to stand up for the price of the future Victory.
        Me too, but how? I send money, we bought and sent the thermos (200 sets) I sent money to the children of Donetsk on NG. Otherwise, indicate the path).
        1. Plate
          Plate 23 November 2022 10: 45
          0
          Quote: Shark Lover
          Around what, whom? Ideology one-earn. 30 years old, all hucksters, yes hucksters, they are held in high esteem. There were, God forbid, that they were

          Well, around this and you can rally completely. Money is guaranteed to be of interest to EVERYONE, unlike loyalty to the leader or some ideologies. It is not in vain that the salary of the participants of the SVO starts from almost 200.
        2. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 23 November 2022 10: 53
          +5
          Quote: Shark Lover
          Otherwise, indicate the path).

          Things, directly to those who are sent to the NWO. Even if it's a little thing. A watch, a flask, a knife, a cigarette case, a good lighter...
      10. solar
        solar 23 November 2022 11: 23
        +2
        - discipline in the troops from private to marshal;

        The opposite is more logical. The fish rots from the head.
      11. skeptick2
        skeptick2 23 November 2022 11: 31
        +12
        Quote: Ilya-spb
        And only one slogan "Victory will be ours!"

        How uplifting and morale such comments!
        But they also raise questions.
        You used the word "Victory" four times in your comment. Would you be so kind as to explain its meaning in relation to today's realities? What can be understood by victory, based on the current situation?
        The capture of Kyiv (why not dream up, right?)?
        Taking control of the whole of Ukraine (why not dream even more?)?
        Complete destruction of the Ukrainian energy system (if possible)?
        Exit of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation to the Soviet borders of Donbass?
        Just holding Donetsk and Luhansk?
        Withdrawal to the borders until February 24 with the retention of the corridor to the Crimea?
        Withdrawal to the borders until February 24 without holding the corridor to the Crimea?
        Surrendering to Ukraine all the territory conquered after February 24, but leaving Crimea behind Russia?
        What exactly can be declared a victory for Russia today?
        Why am I asking? After the announcement by the guarantor of the goals of the NWO in the form of obscure denazification and demilitarization (which today they are trying their best to forget), these goals in the media, on television, in the mouths of government officials have changed repeatedly.
        That's why I'm interested - what are the true goals of the NWO today, the achievement of which can be declared a victory? With demilitarization, everything is clear. Do-demilitarized so that Ukraine will soon become (or has already become?) The first country in Europe in terms of the number of weapons. With denazification, everything is also clear, Peskov said in Russian that no one would overthrow the Kyiv authorities and did not want to, presumably, from the very beginning. True, he kept silent about how to carry out in such conditions the denazification, which is generally incomprehensible to anyone, without a change of power and ideology.
        But you, apparently, have your own understanding of our Victory? Do not share? It will be especially relevant after the Kharkov disgrace and the loss of the right bank of Kherson. And finally - will you announce the timing of this Victory for Russia? When can we expect it?
      12. AAK
        AAK 23 November 2022 12: 40
        +6
        Why not? The slogan "Victory will be ours!" absolutely true, only these abstract "WE" are not us at all, these are "THEY" who, at any end of the CBO, will have everything in chocolate ...
        Neither the top political leadership, nor the intelligence community of the Russian Federation in its entirety, nor the command of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, nor the rear, nor the mobile reserves, nor the military enlistment offices, nor industry, nor even ideology with agitation and propaganda, turned out to be ready for the GREAT LIBERATION CAMPAIGN ... everywhere exceptionally large gluteal muscles ... but on the "box", in the rare occurrences of "orbi at urbi" of our Greatest, not to mention the smaller mustachioed and beardless riffraff - exclusively "everything is fine, beautiful marquise !!!!..."
        - left by virtue of various "agreements", "gestures of goodwill in the interests of partners" and "strategically necessary redeployment" of 80% of the enemy's previously occupied territory - all is well!
        - cowardly tens of thousands of "professionals" broke their contracts at the very beginning of the NWO - everything is fine!
        - Bandera killed hundreds, if not thousands of people who trusted us in the "re-returned territories" - everything is fine!
        - appeared because of the cruel mess in the command, not even hundreds, but more than a thousand of our prisoners - everything is fine!
        - the "court" guardsmen draped, throwing equipment and weapons - everything is fine!
        - we are already fighting on the T-62 and D-20 - everything is fine!
        - for many months Bandera have been shelling the territory not only of the "new", but already of the "old" "subjects of the Federation", many hundreds of people have been killed and injured - all is well!
        - at least one and a half million sets of "Warrior" left the mob warehouses in an unknown direction - everything is fine!
        - the "self-mobilized" equip themselves, prepare them for war with enhanced drill training - everything is fine!
        - we rent everything we can and spit on us all and sundry - everything is fine!
        And something to me, and to many millions of people from the people from this constant "good" is no longer good at all ...
      13. Hypertension
        Hypertension 23 November 2022 13: 05
        +2
        Quote: Ilya-spb
        Slogans: Everything for the front, everything for the Victory! Victory will be ours! Death to Spies! The people and the army are united!

        Aren't you tired of slogans? Moreover, after 9 months it is clear that things will not go further than slogans.
        Quote: Ilya-spb
        And only one slogan "Victory will be ours!"

        But what about “we don’t leave our own” and “Russia is here forever”? There are enough slogans. But not all of them are friends with reality.
        Quote: Ilya-spb
        I am against the imitation of vigorous activity.

        Then - fewer slogans, more deeds should be. But, I repeat, even 9 months after the start of the NWO, there is a mess and dope - in bulk. So "Victory" (whatever it is) is a big question ...
      14. garrett
        garrett 23 November 2022 13: 25
        +5
        I have long had a fundamental question: is Russia at war? Are we at war or what?!

        Kek) Hold my beer... I have another question. And why is it so bad with the supply? I'm not talking about eating / dressing / shod, I'm talking about communication, copters, nightlights. Expensive? So it seems that our state is not poor, and the oligarchs have nowhere to go, you can shake it for money. It will be a year soon, but nothing has changed in this regard.
        1. AC130 Gunship
          AC130 Gunship 23 November 2022 17: 00
          +1
          No one was prepared for such a format. The same copters do not materialize overnight in warehouses. They began to talk about their effectiveness after Azerbaijan. Before that, T14 and Poplar drove along Red Square. Everything
          1. garrett
            garrett 24 November 2022 11: 41
            +1
            No one was prepared for this format

            Let me be curious, what format was the Ministry of Defense preparing for? Were you preparing to fight with the Mujahideen?
            They began to talk about their effectiveness after Azerbaijan

            Suppose (although this is not so), but what about communications at least at the company level? Every fighter (in special forces) and squad commanders of motorized riflemen should have a walkie-talkie.
            What is there with the provision of diesel generators, nightlights, not to mention small things (trenching tools, thermal underwear, flashlights, knives, etc.) without which the fighter, oh, how uncomfortable in the field?
            1. AC130 Gunship
              AC130 Gunship 25 November 2022 00: 57
              +1
              Flashlights and thermal underwear, apparently, were supplied in full according to the same scheme as 1.5 million sets of uniforms were purchased, which disappeared somewhere when mobilization began
            2. AC130 Gunship
              AC130 Gunship 25 November 2022 01: 32
              +3
              M.o. nothing was prepared with anyone until the last moments at all. There were separate exercises. Generals bought real estate on the Adriatic coast...
      15. AG-76
        AG-76 23 November 2022 15: 05
        +3
        In addition to the question "Is Russia at war or not?" another question arises, but if he fights, does the top generally have a desire to win?
        And then the trend in recent months is as follows - a step forward, two steps back ...
      16. Machiavelli
        Machiavelli 23 November 2022 15: 49
        +2
        Quote: Mikhail Sidorov
        This is very reminiscent of gentlemen officers of noble origin of the imperial army, who were very surprised why the soldiers killed them along with their families.

        When the video was published, I was very upset by what I saw. It was like watching a Soviet movie about the revolution.

        Unfortunately, the first and second Chechen wars were not called war either. They called it an anti-terrorist operation.
      17. AC130 Gunship
        AC130 Gunship 23 November 2022 16: 57
        +1
        And what slogan specifically do you propose to change the slogan "For Stalin"?
      18. Sergey Drozdov
        Sergey Drozdov 23 November 2022 19: 45
        +1
        Among the slogans you listed during the Second World War, you forgot the fundamental ones, such as: "Communists, forward!", "Please consider me a communist" and, of course - "For the Motherland! For Stalin!". Well here is the complete set...
      19. Devil13
        Devil13 23 November 2022 19: 52
        +2
        - mmm, censorship. And so there is 0 news, and even stronger censorship, wow, we will reach the Urals on victories!

        In order to fight normally, you first need to start filming and imprisoning freaks with the confiscation, that a million sets of uniforms have been put somewhere, for example.
        Such colonels from the video are under investigation for compliance with reports and real training.
        Oligarchy - do not give out iPhones to mercenaries, and criticize in the media with donations to Ukraine - but go ahead, provide SVO, walk around.
        And deprive the citizenship of other countries of especially smart deputies and their children.
        And then in our country the citizens of the United States, Israel and Kazakhstan made a decision on SVO along the way, yeah
      20. Reklastik
        Reklastik 23 November 2022 21: 17
        0
        unity of the people in the country;
        - this should have been done 15 years ago, at least. But we have no ideology in the country, no work on it.
      21. Vincent price
        Vincent price 24 November 2022 07: 55
        +1
        Sir, now it is easy to debunk your first slogan. All for the front? And whose is everything? My? So I have nothing but a mortgage, Potanina? You can provide a whole army on his pods, but he gave rotation and the axis was his reproductive organ. Such a slogan in today's Russia will not only not be useful, but will be extremely harmful.
      22. SKVichyakow
        SKVichyakow 24 November 2022 10: 19
        0
        Quote: Ilya-spb

        To be honest, I want to stand up for the price of the future Victory.
        I am against the imitation of vigorous activity.
        We need to return to the recipes tested by the Great Patriotic War.

        To fulfill what you said, you need to change the top. After all, everyone there got to the "KORYTA" and not to power or position. One covers the other, since everyone is soiled to one degree or another.
        1. brondulyak
          brondulyak 24 November 2022 16: 34
          -1
          How many provocateurs have come running here! Where do these come from
      23. Ilgizl
        Ilgizl 25 November 2022 22: 10
        +1
        Previously: The nobles had a military honor, as a rule, older children were always military and fought. In the Union there was an ideal of sacrifice in the name of the people and the motherland, and the children of the top leadership went into battle, and in the forefront.
      24. travel
        travel 28 November 2022 13: 06
        0
        [quote] [/ quote] Defeat the internal enemy, defeat the external one. I read a Western article. "Soldiers' mothers demand a meeting with Putin": We are talking about the Council of Mothers and WOMEN. As reported by the independent publication Nestka.
        Layout, about us:"The project was launched on April 26. Media appeared as a quick response to the destruction of the Russian media during the war with Ukraine. Founded by independent journalists and part of the gender literacy project team"
        The Council of Soldiers' Mothers and Wives is a division of the All-People's Union for the Revival of Russia.
        The website of the OSVR is striking in the breadth of interests. From the committee of law, ideology, self-government, security to ecology.
        The loot is not small from where? Self-organization, seriously?
    2. brondulyak
      brondulyak 24 November 2022 16: 32
      -1
      the author is a provocateur! There is no sense in the article ...
  2. Cheldon
    Cheldon 23 November 2022 06: 42
    -18
    The lieutenant colonel pushed Leshkov after this "master of sports" blew cigarette smoke into him, but this future Wagnerian had already hit the underground in the chest. Roman, do you feel the difference? And after that, Leshkov also threatened to tear off his head, that is, a threat to the life of a person during execution. In vain you stand up for the dumbfounded. Let him get it in full, and then he will wash away his shame in Wagner with blood. And he will return to his homeland with a clear conscience.
    1. Vladimir M
      Vladimir M 23 November 2022 06: 48
      +13
      Definitely Leshkov is subject to trial. But wouldn't it hurt to take a reindeer breeder like that, what has he been doing for the last ten years? The worst thing is that at the moment the reindeer breeder cannot be left, but at the same time he cannot be driven away.
      1. GRIGORIY76
        GRIGORIY76 23 November 2022 09: 15
        +1
        what has he been doing for the last ten years?

        That's what
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Machito
      Machito 23 November 2022 07: 39
      +24
      Quote: Cheldon
      The lieutenant colonel pushed Leshkov after this "master of sports" blew cigarette smoke into him, but this future Wagnerian had already hit the underground in the chest. Roman, do you feel the difference? And after that, Leshkov also threatened to tear off his head, that is, a threat to the life of a person during execution. In vain you stand up for the dumbfounded. Let him get it in full, and then he will wash away his shame in Wagner with blood. And he will return to his homeland with a clear conscience.

      The lieutenant colonel himself discredited his position by lowering himself to the level of a private and provoked a push. And could provoke a riot in part. The lieutenant colonel deserved at least a prosecutor's check for his actions and inaction.
    4. Lykases1
      Lykases1 23 November 2022 07: 54
      +15
      You are right, but the underground should also be punished, at least for the inability to work with drugs. And at least downgraded. Too early for him such stars.
      1. Machito
        Machito 23 November 2022 08: 15
        +12
        Quote: Lykases1
        You are right, but the underground should also be punished, at least for the inability to work with drugs. And at least downgraded. Too early for him such stars.

        The underground pushed the private, provoked a counter push, almost provoked a riot. The lieutenant colonel should be tried for insulting a private and dereliction of duty. However, the lieutenant colonel can atone for his guilt in the Wagner penal battalion.
    5. Bulrumeb
      Bulrumeb 23 November 2022 08: 46
      +6
      You write complete nonsense: firstly, “letting out smoke” is not violence on the part of Leshkov, and pulling it up to it will not work. case, it does not matter if he gave a push or a blow in response to the smoke released into him - an excess on the face. Secondly, the threat must be real, you can promise to tear off your head as much as you like or tear it on the British flag there, but these are just words, and Leshkov did not make any actions confirming them.
      1. Cheldon
        Cheldon 23 November 2022 10: 31
        -4
        Quote: Bulrumeb
        You write complete nonsense: firstly, “letting out smoke” is not violence on the part of Leshkov, and pulling it up to it will not work. case, it does not matter if he gave a push or a blow in response to the smoke released into him - an excess on the face. Secondly, the threat must be real, you can promise to tear off your head as much as you like or tear it on the British flag there, but these are just words, and Leshkov did not make any actions confirming them.

        Bulrumed, if you are a layman in the knowledge of the Criminal Code, then at least do not disgrace yourself here: there is an article of the Criminal Code of Russia - 119 "a threat to kill or cause grievous bodily harm." If you used to threaten someone before, and you didn’t get anything for it, now be careful. Well, as for the smoke, you are apparently used to the fact that subordinates blew smoke in your face, so nothing terrible happened to you.
        1. Bulrumeb
          Bulrumeb 23 November 2022 10: 55
          +6
          The fact of the matter is that you are a complete layman. Here is a quote from the legislation under Article 119 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, you can also read the Decrees of the Plenum of the Supreme Court - "Responsibility for a threat occurs if there were grounds to fear the implementation of this threat. When assessing the reality of the implementation of the threat, it is necessary to take into account all the circumstances of a particular case: the situation of the crime, the relationship of the perpetrator and the victim, etc. A verbal threat (“I will kill”, “I will stab”) cannot always be perceived as real. It is also not enough for the subjective opinion of the victim that he considered the threat real, was afraid of its implementation. It is necessary to establish under what circumstances there were reasons to fear implementation of this threat.
          The most serious reason should be considered the expression of this threat in the process of committing violent acts against the victim. "So before you disgrace yourself, read at least the tops laughing If you look at it impartially, then what Leshkov did is nothing more than a disciplinary offense, and the consequences for the underground would be much more serious. And about the smoke, do not try to prick, it looks cheap lol
          1. your1970
            your1970 23 November 2022 14: 25
            +2
            Quote: Bulrumeb
            If you understand impartially, then what Leshkov did is nothing more than a disciplinary offense
            during the Second World War, comrade Leshkov, the one who filmed and the one who released it to the media - all three would have been eaten by wolves a long time ago in a ravine.
            The underground would probably (??) go from the rear to the front - gain authority. I repeat - maybe ...
        2. Devil13
          Devil13 23 November 2022 19: 57
          +3
          First. Cops never work on threats - only on corpses and assassination attempts.
          Do you live in Russia at all?

          Second. I don't see him smoking in the video. And once the underground was mumbling, I would have asked or ordered not to smoke.
          Before that, he behaved like, with his hands in his pockets.
          He was the first to reach out with his hand, to the man on edge.
          On the face of the inability to work with people in general.
          In the penal battalion, private.
          Leshkov - in Wagner, there is no such garbage in the form of officers. Moreover, he is a volunteer, and he said everything to the point.
          1. Cheldon
            Cheldon 24 November 2022 05: 43
            -1
            Have you been to Alabino? Do you know about the preparation of mobilization? I have been and I know. Leshkov is a provocateur. Lieutenant colonel is a normal officer. Just relaxed a little. I don't think there will be any more nonsense like this.
            1. Devil13
              Devil13 24 November 2022 19: 58
              +3
              I know that training depends entirely on the competence of the unit officer. Where places, and alabino, an example of this. Officer to officer strife.
              This one is smut.
              Well, about building three days in a row with maybe standing on the parade ground in the ranks "until the general arrives, we'll go through the ranks" - I know. Cool, yeah? The personnel in full combat stands and stops at 0-2, and then goes to the hospital - general, emana, check ....
              And then in the field, in an open field, without tents, without shovels .... Enjoy, this is an army.
    6. Vincent price
      Vincent price 24 November 2022 07: 56
      0
      And you write from under the coal, as I understand it? Or are your children there? Smart ass.
      1. Cheldon
        Cheldon 24 November 2022 08: 49
        +1
        My eldest son performed the first operation on his own in a military hospital. Finishes the 4th course of honey. Most likely in the summer he will go to the front line for practice. I don't hold him. I am proud of him and my other children. Already very correct for this world are growing. Do you have anything specific to say about training in Alabino?
  3. certero
    certero 23 November 2022 06: 43
    +35
    The war, as usual, highlighted all the shortcomings of the government very visibly and convexly. I am sure that the authorities themselves are no longer glad that they started this war, they just don’t know how to return everything as it was.
    However, the authorities are still calmly doing whatever they want. And we can only get angry in the comments, anyway, we cannot influence their actions in any way.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 23 November 2022 06: 49
      +1
      https://yap.ru/forum28/topic2534690.html не знаю как к этому относиться...
      1. alekseykabanets
        alekseykabanets 23 November 2022 08: 34
        +8
        Quote: Aerodrome
        https://yap.ru/forum28/topic2534690.html не знаю как к этому относиться...

        How, how, how to a Ukrainian fake, and if you treat it differently, then the term for discrediting everything.)))
        Not used yet?
        1. Predometrix
          Predometrix 23 November 2022 08: 46
          +12
          As there was:
          You support the surrender of Kherson - an article for violating territorial integrity.
          You do not support - an article for discrediting the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
          laughing
    2. Devil13
      Devil13 23 November 2022 19: 58
      +1
      Well, she hopes for negotiations and gestures of goodwill.
    3. Vincent price
      Vincent price 24 November 2022 07: 57
      -1
      It remains for us not to be angry, but to save money and emigrate, and let the power remain with the pipe.
  4. The comment was deleted.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 23 November 2022 07: 17
      +9
      Quote: Wedmak
      Maybe if the conversation turned to the shortcomings, it was worth showing the positive points. Well, how about an example?

      And he showed. As an example - the Tula mobilized. Staver writes good articles.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 23 November 2022 07: 35
            -12
            I don't see anything restrained. Everything is in style - everything is bad, nothing good (well, sometimes it's normal, but look for it yourself).
        2. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 23 November 2022 07: 43
          +14
          Quote: Wedmak
          One link?

          No, the military police are notably equipped. Already two drops of honey. And there is a photo. And for good articles, as he wrote, contact Staver. There's definitely nothing to complain about.
    2. Woodman
      Woodman 23 November 2022 08: 30
      -10
      Quote: Wedmak
      It was worth showing the positives as well. Well, how about an example?

      You can't catch the hype on the positive. The author has his admirers and they like this style. CIPSO also applauds, because it works in the same style. So what else do you need to be happy?
      PS Once upon a time, I thought that a journalist should at least occasionally go to the scene, give a report directly from a military unit or a humanitarian collection point, and interview real participants in the events. And then came the internet. And to call yourself a journalist, it became enough to reprint other people's news.
      P.S.2.0
      And here is a video, the theme of which is "be afraid, otherwise it will be the same with you."
      This is an army, not a gang of gopniks. Refused to obey the order, hit the officer or threatened? Get what you deserve. If you behave like a gopota in the rear, then what can you expect from you at the front?
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 23 November 2022 08: 55
        +11
        Quote: Lesovik
        You can't catch the hype on the positive.
        oh well, after Staver's tales there are no less comments
      2. Wedmak
        Wedmak 23 November 2022 09: 00
        -3
        And I have already rolled a warning for "trolling and provocation." That's it. The author turns out to be a good and honest person, and not a "journalist" digging up only the negative and pouring it around the site with molasses. Which one of us is a provocateur - you still need to look.
        1. Woodman
          Woodman 23 November 2022 09: 07
          +1
          Quote: Wedmak
          I already got a warning

          I somehow got a warning a month after posting the comment)
        2. Mikhail Sidorov
          Mikhail Sidorov 23 November 2022 10: 57
          +3
          And I already got a warning for "trolling and provocation

          I got two not so long ago for criticizing the administration of the site. For the fact that they cannot place the flags of the forum participants at least for a week. Who is who at least with one eye ... lol and the comment, along with yours above, which was already demolished.
          1. vadimtt
            vadimtt 23 November 2022 11: 58
            +2
            How much you can wear these flags, they do not work. Or, at least, you need to enter KYC on the site, but there will be very few people who want to.
          2. Woodman
            Woodman 23 November 2022 13: 37
            +2
            Quote: Mikhail Sidorov
            For not being able to place the flags of the forum participants at least for a week

            Apparently, they cannot decide whose Crimea, LDNR, Kherson and Zaporozhye.
            1. Fan-fan
              Fan-fan 23 November 2022 17: 12
              +3
              Flags cannot be placed, as this is food for demagogues, who will begin to discuss not the article and comments, but the citizenship of people.
              1. Woodman
                Woodman 23 November 2022 17: 56
                +3
                Quote: Fan-Fan
                as it is food for demagogues

                Do you want to say that there is little demagogy here now?)
          3. your1970
            your1970 23 November 2022 14: 50
            +3
            You are like a child by God with these flags ....
            Who has VPN enabled - any (!!!!) flag will be displayed. For example, Singapore got out for me, and for the Israelis, right up to Korea and India.

            So nothing you're having to real the country where the person is located - you will not see
            1. Mikhail Sidorov
              Mikhail Sidorov 23 November 2022 15: 28
              +1
              Who has VPN enabled - any (!!!!) flag will be displayed.

              What is vpn?
              So you won’t see anything that has to the real country where the person is located

              Well, if it's impossible to know. That is very unfortunate.
              1. your1970
                your1970 23 November 2022 16: 08
                +2
                Quote: Mikhail Sidorov
                What is vpn?
                IP address spoofing program that allows you to visit any site
            2. Woodman
              Woodman 23 November 2022 17: 59
              +1
              Quote: your1970
              Who has VPN enabled - will be anyone

              Why do you need a vpn on this site? The site is not banned by Roskomnadzor, there is no reason to use vpn.
              1. your1970
                your1970 23 November 2022 19: 52
                +1
                Quote: Lesovik
                Quote: your1970
                Who has VPN enabled - will be anyone

                Why do you need a vpn on this site? The site is not banned by Roskomnadzor, there is no reason to use vpn.

                And I’m not only in VO. Sometimes it’s interesting to read what they write in the original ..
                And clicking back and forth for the sake of a flag on VO is somehow too lazy ...
      3. Predometrix
        Predometrix 23 November 2022 09: 36
        +3
        Refused to obey the order, hit the officer or threatened? Get what you deserve. If you behave like a gopota in the rear, then what can you expect from you at the front?


        Does this also apply to officers or does it only work in one direction? And about the "gopota in the rear" you can tell the Wagner convicts.
        1. Woodman
          Woodman 23 November 2022 09: 52
          +1
          Quote from Predometrix
          you can tell the Wagner convicts.

          And do they behave at the front like fighters or like convicts? In addition, after the selection, as far as I remember the words of Prigozhin, the convicts do not have a big choice: they either fight or die.
          Quote from Predometrix
          This also applies to officers.

          The charter is the same for all.
          1. El Barto
            El Barto 23 November 2022 13: 32
            +7
            Not alone.
            First, the military registration and enlistment offices will catch unfit personnel for a report and a tick.
            Then, in training for a report and a tick, unfit personnel will be unfit for some kind of equipment and training.
            Then the unfit personnel do not understand how equipped and untrained are sent to the troops.
            And for show and report, it turns out that powerful full-blooded units have been formed.
            And the Charter is obtained for:
            - commanders of the tactical level, who were sent untrained homeless people, and who (as some write here) - need to "fight those who were sent" and "not run around with reports to the authorities" otherwise they will "ruffle and margarita"
            - Ordinary infantry bums, to whom "Live according to the Charter, you will win honor and glory." What Charter they have never seen.

            How can you be surprised that they misbehave
  5. HaByxoDaBHocep
    HaByxoDaBHocep 23 November 2022 06: 46
    +14
    They’ll probably come for Roman soon, pah pah, he’s been writing topical articles lately)
    1. Reklastik
      Reklastik 23 November 2022 21: 35
      +1
      Well, since he is still writing, it means they won’t come anymore) it’s not for articles about airplanes to take him)
  6. Li17
    Li17 23 November 2022 06: 52
    +11
    The article is correct and honest ... But here is our favorite Russian question - What to do?
    And no less favorite question - And who is to blame? And the answers, in my opinion, to the first - AHZ, and to the second ... you can get problems under the article of the Criminal Code! Or a ban for expressions when thinking!
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 23 November 2022 07: 08
      -17
      And that in such an honest article there is no mention of normal training, normal training of conscripts, responsible commanders? Or, oh my god, there aren't any? And, well, yes, the purpose of the article is to express my fi - oh, everything is gone, we were betrayed, sold, etc.
      1. AA17
        AA17 23 November 2022 07: 39
        +25
        Dear Wedmak (Denis). Information "... about normal training, normal training of conscripts, responsible commanders ..." can be seen on the central channels. But they are not very willing to talk about problems there. The author of this article filled this gap and wrote about the problems. You can also write an article about our achievements in the field of training and education of conscripts, do not forget to indicate how many children of oligarchs and high officials were mobilized. We gladly honor.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 23 November 2022 09: 08
          -5
          Just writing an article about problems is not enough! This is called digging up the negative. The author cited in comparison only ONE reference to a normal attitude towards the mobilized. Where are the links to the central channels? Where is the photo of adequate training of the mobilized? At least as a counter example?
          What thoughts will fit in the reader's head after such a presentation of information? I’ll give you a hint: everything is ruined for us, nothing works, there are thieves everywhere, in general, you don’t need to wait for anything, we have already lost. Well, there is normal, but it will not play a role.
          About the oligarchs: do you really think that these daddy's sons will be useful in the army? Or is it "since that's all, then the oligarchs should also"? I understand social inequality, etc. I am by no means defending them, but I don’t think that on February 24 everything should have changed and all as one, for one idea, in one formation ...
          1. AA17
            AA17 23 November 2022 12: 17
            +1
            do you really think that these daddy's boys will be useful in the army? Or is it "since that's all, then the oligarchs should too"

            From the history of our Motherland, we know many examples of the heroism of our elite: Dmitry Donskoy - in the forefront of the Russian Army on Kulikovo Field, Prince Bagration in the Battle of Borodino - in front, many officers were killed in the First World War, as they walked ahead of the advancing chains. The children of senior party officials in the USSR fought at the front. Therefore, the Russian Elite should be in the army. My special respect for A. Kadyrov and his sons. About "daddy's sons" you somehow put it very diplomatically. They can drive sports cars, have fun in elite clubs, but will they not be useful in the Army? They will be trained at normal training camps by responsible commanders and will be ready to fulfill their duty to the Motherland. We have one homeland, for the Russian Elite, for the majority of ordinary Russian Citizens.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 23 November 2022 12: 28
              +2
              We have one homeland, for the Russian Elite, for the majority of ordinary Russian Citizens.

              Some officials do not think so. Here they simply have a job, and for living and recreation, they have already bought residences abroad and children in Western schools.
        2. your1970
          your1970 23 November 2022 14: 55
          0
          Quote: AA17
          how many children of oligarchs and high officials were mobilized

          We have mobilized the owner of 4 stores. And there is no joy from this ...
          I was planning to build a shed next year and wanted to start buying materials - and figs: "There is no owner, we do not take large orders, discounts are only through him,"
    2. Lykases1
      Lykases1 23 November 2022 07: 49
      +15
      You are right, do nothing. Come on, we, a State Duma deputy, Delyagin, make a request to the Ministry of Defense that the military is buying shovels for themselves, asking them to send them. The answer is that the troops are provided for everything, nothing is required. He seems to have more options. So what?
      1. your vsr 66-67
        your vsr 66-67 23 November 2022 10: 43
        +3
        Quote: Lykases1
        You are right, do nothing. Come on, we, a State Duma deputy, Delyagin, make a request to the Ministry of Defense that the military is buying shovels for themselves, asking them to send them. The answer is that the troops are provided for everything, nothing is required. He seems to have more options. So what?


        What? And what happened to N. Poklonskaya? The same will happen with Delyagin! laughing
        1. Lykases1
          Lykases1 23 November 2022 11: 12
          +2
          There is nothing to object. A person risks his behavior and statements. Moreover, he is not afraid to criticize major figures. Everything is possible.
          1. your vsr 66-67
            your vsr 66-67 23 November 2022 14: 02
            0
            Quote: Lykases1
            There is nothing to object. A person risks his behavior and statements. Moreover, he is not afraid to criticize major figures. Everything is possible.

            Are you talking to me?
  7. Mikhail Sidorov
    Mikhail Sidorov 23 November 2022 06: 57
    +7
    Yes, order in the army must be restored and maintained. A video from the Moscow region with a mobilized man and a colonel is one of the most terrible videos of today's war. Riot. All this is extremely dangerous.
    But ...
    But as a part of the same electorate that can fly under the fifth or tenth wave of self-mobilization, I automatically like "mobiles". They are just like me. And I'm just like them. And I may well stand in the same ranks, and they can just as well tamp me down for the wrong word.

    Nice article from Roman. Restrained. Very often, Roman's articles are not liked. But this one is fine.
  8. Nikolay Malyugin
    Nikolay Malyugin 23 November 2022 07: 01
    +4
    A new country, new orders. All these arrests, detentions - all this is a routine. The main thing is to show how strong the police we have. Everything is like in America. There they detain a pickpocket, as if he were a seasoned killer. And be sure to broadcast on TV. They don’t understand one thing, the tougher the law enforcement officers, the tougher the bandits act. Actions give rise to counteractions. In a word, PR.
    1. Predometrix
      Predometrix 23 November 2022 07: 22
      0
      Quote: Nikolay Malyugin
      There they detain a pickpocket, as if he were a seasoned killer. And be sure to broadcast on TV.


      Thus they show the inevitability of punishment. Even if you stole a handbag from an old woman, half of the city's police will catch you and they will definitely catch you - this is what is driven into the heads of American citizens.
      1. victor50
        victor50 23 November 2022 07: 52
        +9
        Quote from Predometrix
        Thus they show the inevitability of punishment. Even if you stole a handbag from an old woman, half of the city's police will catch you and they will definitely catch you - this is what is driven into the heads of American citizens.

        I do not think that this is the goal, because it is ridiculous to talk about inevitability there given the level of crime. One that we never dreamed of even in the worst of times.
    2. Mikhail Sidorov
      Mikhail Sidorov 23 November 2022 07: 31
      +3
      One thing they do not understand is that the tougher the law enforcement officers, the tougher the bandits act.
      You demonstrate very strange logic with this phrase. I haven’t read this for a long time, from a competent and constant commentator. hi
    3. Plate
      Plate 23 November 2022 10: 55
      0
      Quote: Nikolay Malyugin
      One thing they do not understand is that the tougher the law enforcement officers, the tougher the bandits act.

      So, so, so, and these words are written on a site where a bunch of users honor the methods of Comrade Stalin, urging them to return to them as soon as possible and in the most cruel way possible?
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 23 November 2022 11: 19
        +3
        Quote: Plate
        So, so, so, and these words are written on a site where a bunch of users honor the methods of Comrade Stalin, urging them to return to them as soon as possible and in the most cruel way possible?

        Under Stalin there was an ideology and directly set goals. Where are we sailing? Hanging out like a flower in a hole.
      2. Nikolay Malyugin
        Nikolay Malyugin 23 November 2022 11: 28
        +1
        Plate. And others. All these detentions, arrests are built on the humiliation of a person. The court can sentence you to death. But when humiliation occurs, it is a spit in ourselves. The inevitability of punishment, yes. Humiliation, no. "If a person is called a pig all the time, then he involuntarily grunts" - Gorky.
  9. Alex66
    Alex66 23 November 2022 07: 03
    +30
    The principle itself is important here, for which we are offered to fight. For the selected years of pensions, for compulsory vaccination, for not fulfilled May promises? For pasta or for the fact that the state does not owe us anything, officials told us a lot before their own. Why don’t the security forces come equipped, we have millions of them trained, they are saved for twisting hands very smart.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 23 November 2022 07: 06
      -28
      Are you inciting people to rebel now?
      1. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 23 November 2022 07: 25
        +21
        Quote: Wedmak
        Are you inciting people to rebel now?

        The people are not stupid. They will figure it out on their own. And no patriotic slogans will save. All this was already in the First World War.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 23 November 2022 07: 33
          -19
          That is, you beat? The people will not understand anything - for the most part, this is a crowd dependent on slogans and driven by momentary benefits. Which has been used in dark power by those in power for more than one hundred years. Right now, we just don’t have enough revolution to shoot ourselves in the head. Control.
          Now the daily work to eliminate the identified shortcomings and the elimination of slobs, saboteurs, nihilists and other untrustworthy people from the leadership will save us. You don't think it's that easy, do you?
          1. AA17
            AA17 23 November 2022 08: 21
            +12
            "Now the daily work to eliminate the identified shortcomings and the elimination of slobs, saboteurs, infidels and other untrustworthy people from the leadership will save. You don't think it's so simple?" I agree with your phrase. But...
            The identified shortcomings were committed by people with a specific surname, occupying certain positions. And how should Russian citizens react when such information appears:
            At first.
            Deputy Defense Minister General of the Army Dmitry Bulgakov, who was responsible for the logistics of the Armed Forces, was relieved of his post, the Ministry of Defense reported...

            Later.
            Army General Dmitry Bulgakov was appointed to the post of inspector of the Office of General Inspectors of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

            How to eliminate shortcomings if no one is punished for anything. This breeds irresponsibility.
            1. Essex62
              Essex62 23 November 2022 09: 03
              +4
              Removal of slackers, saboteurs and other untrustworthy people from the leadership will be a revolution.
            2. Wedmak
              Wedmak 23 November 2022 09: 11
              -6
              How to eliminate shortcomings if no one is punished for anything. This breeds irresponsibility.

              The right question in the right way. And why do I feel sick from the article, but not from your question?
          2. tatra
            tatra 23 November 2022 09: 17
            +7
            Don't be ridiculous, the only thing that exists, and will be after the end of the NWO, is a sharply increased political repression against dissidents, an even greater "gagging" of those who are "offended by the State."
            And in power and the "elite" everything will remain the same.
          3. kor1vet1974
            kor1vet1974 23 November 2022 09: 18
            +8
            Now the daily work to eliminate the identified shortcomings and the elimination of slobs, saboteurs, nihilists and other untrustworthy people from the leadership will save us.
            Ahem, why did the leadership turn out to be slobs, saboteurs and infidels and other untrustworthy people? They were probably appointed by the State Department? Or did they just happen to be there without anyone noticing?
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 23 November 2022 09: 24
              -5
              This is something that the competent authorities should deal with.
              1. kor1vet1974
                kor1vet1974 23 November 2022 10: 35
                +6
                This is something that the competent authorities should deal with.
                And in the competent authorities there are no high-ranking slobs, saboteurs and indifferent people and other people who are not credible? Two examples. Serdyukov from the accused turned into a witness, Sobchak, who had a plush skirt, was guilty, again with one slight movement of her hand, she turned, turned, turned ... Ah! As a witness!
                1. Wedmak
                  Wedmak 23 November 2022 10: 41
                  -2
                  Well ... let's say okay. All thieves, swindlers, etc. What's next? Give up? Revolution? Or what?
                  I don’t understand why, saying that everything is bad, many do not even try to offer a way out of this situation? Maybe we’ll start to relate adequately, give examples of a normal attitude, and not condemn normal ones?
                  Articles like this don't improve the situation. They only escalate tension in society. Which is already not in the most favorable location.
                  1. kor1vet1974
                    kor1vet1974 23 November 2022 10: 57
                    +6
                    Which is already not in the most favorable location.
                    Is society to blame for not being in a good mood? Partly, yes, it’s to blame .. I was blind for 30 years ... I didn’t see where the guides were leading .. Yes, and now it hasn’t dawned.
            2. Plate
              Plate 23 November 2022 11: 00
              +3
              Quote: kor1vet1974
              Ahem, why did the leadership turn out to be slobs, saboteurs and infidels and other untrustworthy people?

              Because they wrote beautiful reports in which they described in detail why they were not slobs, but hard workers and hard workers. In the meantime, there is no real hard work, how do you prove that these reports are utter lies? No, it’s drawn up according to the form, and even the pictures are attached with signatures in accordance with GOST.
              I confess that I know nothing about rectifying this situation, so I will end my comment here.
              1. kor1vet1974
                kor1vet1974 23 November 2022 11: 22
                +4
                Because they wrote beautiful reports
                And who appointed them to write reports? State Department? British intelligence?
                1. Plate
                  Plate 23 November 2022 11: 36
                  +1
                  Quote: kor1vet1974
                  State Department? British intelligence?

                  Yes, leave me alone from these State Department with British intelligence: nothing to do with them.
                  Quote: kor1vet1974
                  And who appointed them to write reports?

                  Well, first they appointed themselves, I guess. You can go to lower positions and so. They wrote several beautiful reports there, and these bosses, who are higher up, liked it ... judging by your nickname, you are older than me: should I tell you about the career ladder?
            3. your1970
              your1970 23 November 2022 15: 15
              0
              Quote: kor1vet1974
              Now the daily work to eliminate the identified shortcomings and the elimination of slobs, saboteurs, nihilists and other untrustworthy people from the leadership will save us.
              Ahem, why did the leadership turn out to be slobs, saboteurs and infidels and other untrustworthy people? They were probably appointed by the State Department? Or did they just happen to be there without anyone noticing?

              In 10 days from the start of the Second World War, Minsk was lost with losses of about 200 ...
              By the beginning of the war, there were about 1500 generals in the Red Army; during the war, about 3000 more were appointed.
              Shot for the war 56. Total ....
              Who was shot for the Crimea, Kyiv, Kharkov and so on?
              Quote: kor1vet1974
              why did the leadership turn out to be slobs, saboteurs and infidels and other untrustworthy people? They were probably appointed by the State Department?
              - oh sorry, then they didn’t know about the State Department yet ..
              Who is to blame for the NGSH (!!!!!!!) Zhukov writes in his memoirs: We learned to fight throughout the war "? we wrote reports, wiped the chairs.
              Today only the laziest would not kick him here at VO
    2. TIR
      TIR 23 November 2022 07: 31
      +13
      You're right. We have a lot of security officials, but they are sharpened to work not against external enemies, but against their own population. The conclusion is that their own population was more dangerous than any war for the authorities. Even if we lose the war and sign a surrender, there will be few dissenters. And whoever starts to appear, he will have drugs and extremist literature and SVO and will correct his brains with batons
    3. Pastor
      Pastor 23 November 2022 08: 33
      +10
      Hello, I completely agree with you .., I would just like to add ...
      -What was all this for? A question asked by a simple guy who went for his Motherland, lying with a severed limb in a hospital, watching on TV how our people are leaving Kherson
      -Mothers, wives of those whose children .., husbands, died there, and then watch as ours leave the positions obtained by blood in battle
      -About pensions, vaccinations, May, I would generalize all this into a complete collapse of state institutions .., institutions of education, medicine in the country (I myself am a doctor, I know what I’m talking about), the institution of the family, spirituality (with all these incomprehensible films shot for the state check)

      By virtue of my profession, I communicate with a lot of people .., and I noticed that in the last couple of months people have begun to ask themselves questions .., the questions are right for us, but inconvenient for the authorities .., and there are no good answers to these questions ..!! ! One gets the feeling that the authorities themselves create the conditions for internal unrest, not the first and I would say not even the tenth time .., and if nothing is done to level the boat, which the top itself is rocking .., then the question arises .., and to whom it is profitable??? Wasn't everything for 20 years a circus and a stage with a good game of actors in the roles of the main characters?
      Just as the question has recently arisen .., do we definitely have nuclear weapons ??? Or just like with uniforms and everything else, in bravura reports about the share of the latest weapons in 92% ...
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 23 November 2022 08: 55
        -11
        So, we lost and it's time to give up?
        1. Pastor
          Pastor 23 November 2022 09: 42
          +4
          I didn't write that we lost..!!! Now the horror of the situation is that nothing can be changed .., because:
          - if the change is "from below" .., the Motherland will not survive this revolution, on the wave of discontent, the "partners" will slip the right character with a high degree of probability .., then the collapse of the country, a variant of modern turmoil (only no one will allow us to gather and unite as 500 years ago)
          - a change "from above" .., only if the "Elite" understands that everything .. is over .., they will be dispossessed of kulaks anyway and will gladly share their fortune .. but as I see, they do not understand this .. hoping that in which case they will become princelings in the provinces, but even in this case they will be pressed down, maybe they hope to keep at least something from what they have earned by honest labor ...
          - regarding the election, I don’t have much information about Grudinin, but the case was indicative, at least some competitor is removed from the field
          -you can’t count on the help of the army either, there is the same vertical and also “necessary” people

          The situation has been brought to a stalemate, a choice without a choice .., we can only wait ... !!! Hope dies last))
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 23 November 2022 10: 02
            -8
            I didn't write that we lost..!!! Now the horror of the situation is that nothing can be changed ..,

            And there are people who unite, help front-line soldiers, knit warm clothes for them. There are others who organize CWP courses, there are those who go to them and prepare. And there are just men who packed their things and went to the front.
            The situation has been brought to a stalemate, a choice without a choice .., we can only wait ... !!!

            Excuse me, what are you waiting for? I don't see the pathos of the situation. Well, the authorities in some places, as they say, screwed up, but actually who chose them? Who said, "I won't go to the polls .. laziness / far / everything will be decided for us." Decided. Who believed the balabols (this is not a mate if anything, this is a characteristic) and voted for them? It would be nice once, it happened all the time. Well, a person who speaks so beautifully cannot lie. Although it says on his face that he will put on his promises.
            This is not to mention the worship of the West in various forms, idle life, irresponsibility in positions, etc. Well, here we are. Since February 24, having heard the news, part of the people rushed over the hill, the second part, with the announcement of mobilization, rushed to storm Upper Lars. And how many Western-controlled media did we have? The widest coverage of the audience and putting the right thoughts into their heads. Receive, sign.
            And now, since we got stuck like this, we should not wring our hands and not collect negative stuff all over the country in our articles, but work and help correct all these mistakes and omissions.
            Unless, of course, you work against the country of which you are a citizen.
            1. Plate
              Plate 23 November 2022 11: 13
              +1
              Quote: Wedmak
              Who said, "I won't go to the polls .. laziness / far / everything will be decided for us." Decided. Who believed the balabols (this is not a mate if anything, this is a characteristic) and voted for them?

              So the fact of the matter is, I think that no one particularly voted for balabols. In the last elections, the turnout was slightly more than 50%, but even so, United Russia scored less than 50%. Well, almost 50. I think that even cheating was not needed for this: I fully believe that a quarter of voters could sincerely vote for current balabols, since they themselves are, or receive solid money from them (officials, employees of state corporations, plus their families ...).
              So yes, those who did not come to the polls under the slogan "they will decide without us anyway" achieved what they wanted: everything was decided without them, and now they can complain that they do not decide anything request
              But what to do with all this now I personally do not really understand.
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 23 November 2022 10: 58
            +1
            Quote: Pastoret
            Hope dies last))

            Vera said and shot Love.
          3. goblin xnumx
            goblin xnumx 23 November 2022 11: 19
            0
            do not pay attention to the witcher - he trolls and provokes you - be above him :)
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 23 November 2022 11: 36
              -2
              Can you elaborate on what I'm trolling and what I'm provoking?
          4. Dante Alighieri
            Dante Alighieri 23 November 2022 11: 56
            +2
            if the change is "from below" .., the Motherland will not survive this revolution, on a wave of discontent

            Well, that's why you are all so afraid of the revolution? Why are you not afraid of the thought that everything will remain as it was before, and we will continue to just slowly fade away, gradually being replaced by migrants and becoming such ourselves. Revolution is a chance, a chance for change. Moreover, with a 50% probability - for changes for the better. This is higher than in the casino.

            As for partners, they have always been in abundance. And the Swedes with the Poles, and the Germans, and the British, now here are the Americans. Yes, technological progress makes it more likely to ensure control over such a large territory, but the risks will increase many times over. Moreover, there will be more than one or two contenders for such a tasty morsel. While they are drawing new cards, we are quite capable of reasserting ourselves to the World.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 23 November 2022 13: 34
              -1
              Not a single revolution has yet led to a rapid change in the situation and prosperity. Each was followed by the collapse of the economy, statehood and the difficult time of their restoration.
              As for partners, they have always been in abundance. And the Swedes with the Poles, and the Germans, and the British, now here are the Americans.

              Well, yes ... And the sanctions and blows to our economy, apparently this is a tribute to us by these partners.
              Moreover, there will be more than one or two contenders for such a tasty morsel. While they are drawing new cards, we are quite capable of reasserting ourselves to the World.

              The cards have already been drawn. We will not have time to say how we will be divided into a dozen republics under the control of the "UN" troops and the execution of NATO.
              You are definitely a CIA agent, who else can talk so openly about the division of Russia with such directness and inspiration?
              1. Dante Alighieri
                Dante Alighieri 23 November 2022 20: 36
                +3
                Each was followed by the collapse of the economy, statehood and the difficult time of their restoration.

                Well, the state of the modern economy is such that we have nothing to lose in acres of shopping centers. What they didn’t finish off in the XNUMXs, they’ll finish off now. So you can safely skip the point with the collapse of the economy and immediately proceed to its restoration)))) In my opinion, it’s better than the constant victimization of looking for new dubious partners. First in New York, then in Berlin, now in Istanbul and Beijing. Pure nocturnal on the panel, seeking to please anyone with money. It's disgusting.
                You are definitely a CIA agent, who else can talk so openly about the division of Russia with such directness and inspiration?

                Of course, the real one, I sit right in the Kremlin and personally supply Kanoshenkov with disinformation)))) But they didn’t inform me about the finished cards, apparently the curators told you a little more than me, you will need to clarify this issue with them. In general, we will be in touch, colleague.

                In general, I am amazed at you "guardians", no one has ever asked you to carry the good, the eternal, but no, you yourself climbed into the noose and in the last fit of selfishness you want the whole country to proceed to the scaffold with you. Well, no, it won't happen, don't even dream about it. The bearer of power in this country is one, it is its multinational people, and someday he will remember this and take his fate into his own hands.
          5. your1970
            your1970 23 November 2022 15: 29
            +1
            Quote: Pastoret
            regarding the election, I do not have much information about Grudinin, but the case was indicative,

            Still not indicative...
            From the Communist (!!!!!) Party, an oligarch, the owner of almost all the shares of ZAO and a billionaire, went to power.
            Moreover, he said things - strictly opposite to the OFFICIAL program of the Communist Party published on their website.
            He did not put his accounts in order - although it would seem a trifle ...
            And most importantly, they didn’t vote for him in the village. Simply because the technology of taking land - SPK-OAO-ZAO in the village was studied the hard way.
            Do you know why ZAO? There are no more than 49 people of shareholders, taking into account the fact that he has the main array - the rest are purely for the crowd
            But the city does not know this - they showed the city that he lives in the same house and greets the hand - "aaa !!! uuu! So good! So don't be a bourgeois !!!".

            Naive ....
        2. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 23 November 2022 13: 19
          +2
          Quote: Wedmak
          So, we lost and it's time to give up?

          It's time to build a new state.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Bulrumeb
      Bulrumeb 23 November 2022 09: 05
      +1
      About the security forces - you write complete nonsense. The same Russian Guard has been there since the very first day. The only thing is that they are rotated every 3 months, but for me this is only a plus for their command. SOBR and all sorts of other similar formations periodically flash in reports and news. And according to the legislation, their goals and objectives are completely different. Sending ordinary police there is the same as sending the same mobilized ones; for the vast majority, the preparation consists in firing three cartridges from the Makarov once a quarter. But where is the army that is shown on the box ...
  10. Prometey
    Prometey 23 November 2022 07: 10
    -7
    Understood nothing. There is no logic in the text.
  11. Predometrix
    Predometrix 23 November 2022 07: 19
    +8
    The enemy is trying very hard to hit the brains of the Russian layman as hard as possible in order to put confusion and chaos in their heads.

    Who is the opponent if the article deals with videos shot by Russians in Russia? I am ready to believe in the production of the Lviv Drama Theatre, but even for them to have a military police car or a whole colonel surrounded by a company of soldiers as "props" is too much.
  12. TIR
    TIR 23 November 2022 07: 26
    +6
    When press secretaries are recruited according to the principle of the fewer brains and the wider the feed, then there are failures in the notification and clarification of information. Therefore, it makes no sense to try to get work out of them through the brains. It's easier to kick them out without explanation. There are still no brains, and the pumped feed will withstand a kick without harm to health
  13. Suomynona
    Suomynona 23 November 2022 07: 26
    +21
    Everyone who is under the threat of mobilization has the same thoughts in their heads. Well, who is not in danger of anything - naturally the article will not be liked. I would like another article from this author on the topic of why mature men with work experience and families are sent to fight, and not conscripts or military personnel who receive benefits
    1. Lykases1
      Lykases1 23 November 2022 08: 43
      +1
      I believe that most of the personnel are already in combat, except for the reserve in case of a big war. And conscripts - I think they are afraid of a social explosion. I don't see any other explanation.
  14. Ivanov IV
    Ivanov IV 23 November 2022 07: 30
    +15
    Everything Correct!!!!
    But this only makes the Soul more bitter. The country was not only plundered, but also brought to a foul state.
    The fact that such ki are at the head of the "army" is not surprising. Look who is in charge of the country.
    HOPPER.
  15. Belisarius
    Belisarius 23 November 2022 07: 42
    +24
    So this is the meaning of why the authorities dragged on with the mobilization after it became clear that the negotiations with the "Ukrainian partners" failed. The military sense in this was completely absent, but the political one was present and somehow internal enemy (that is, their own people) are much more terrible for them than external "respectable partners". Therefore, the terrible "Nazis from Azov" and foreign mercenaries are kissed on the gums and sent by business jets to Turkey and England, and all those who went out on single pickets are packed to the fullest. Hence the countless "siloviki" and the military police packed to the maximum (who are not sent anywhere) and a meager army that has nothing.
    The authorities of the Russian Federation mobilized out of hopelessness after Kharkov, when it became clear that the "professional" army, in the conditions of the policy of goodwill gestures and the absence of any status in the NWO, simply scatters, leaving for the five hundredth and abandoning equipment.
    True, even now there is an option for the authorities to correct the situation, but for this it is necessary to break with "respected partners" and begin to bear responsibility for everything that happens at least from February 2022. But who would go for it...
  16. kor1vet1974
    kor1vet1974 23 November 2022 07: 58
    +23
    When the SVO began, there were similar reports on the pages of VO from the other side. Those, of course, were ridiculed. Now, they appeared with ours. Nobody wants to laugh, because it turns out it's all pretty sad when you have it. we have death.
    1. iury.vorgul
      iury.vorgul 23 November 2022 09: 19
      +4
      On February 6.2.2018, XNUMX, in a comment to the article "The Verkhovna Rada refused to renew the friendship treaty with Russia," I wrote: "Excellent. Now the "noble rage" will boil up, they will go to the" mortal battle "on their own for pennies rich Ukrainians Kolomoisky, Valtsman and Akhmetov, others - for the money of the noble Russians Vekselberg, Rotenberg and Usmanov. How to look into the water...
      1. kor1vet1974
        kor1vet1974 23 November 2022 10: 25
        +3
        hi
        As he looked into the water ...
        There have never been prophets in our Fatherland smile
  17. arnulla
    arnulla 23 November 2022 08: 09
    +11
    It seems that this government is hopeless. Because how can they put it on Russia and its citizens ...
  18. ALARI
    ALARI 23 November 2022 08: 29
    +7
    The author singled out in his article a number of the main requests of society today. But soon, if nothing changes, there will be only one request - Finish on any terms.
  19. fiberboard
    fiberboard 23 November 2022 08: 32
    +7
    I'm surprised the article was missed. I wrote a comment, but they refused to publish it. Apparently now the comments should contain only admiration for the wisdom of our authorities
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 25 November 2022 12: 57
      0
      So the author of the article is one of the leaders of this site. That's why they missed it.
  20. Boris55
    Boris55 23 November 2022 08: 38
    -20
    Quote: R. Skomorokhov
    After ... the mobilized Alexander Leshkov, who "ran into" the lieutenant colonel ... receive up to 15 years in prison

    Up to 15 years old? And rightly so!
    Maybe you are still for the creation of "Soldiers' Committees", which will decide whether to go on the attack or not?

    Quote: R. Skomorokhov
    And why be afraid of people who tomorrow can simply be killed?

    Why be afraid? The fact that after tomorrow they will kill parents, wives, children.
    Do you really not understand that the war is for the survival of Russia, all of us?

    The task is not to die, but to win.
    Who wants to die - a rope with soap in household goods.
    1. iury.vorgul
      iury.vorgul 23 November 2022 09: 26
      +10
      Why be afraid? The fact that after tomorrow they will kill parents, wives, children.
      Do you really not understand that the war is for the survival of Russia, all of us?
      WE understand... But only why WE HAVE TO fight "for the survival of Russia", and THEY have the right not to fight, but to steal. Who made the decision to raise housing and communal services tariffs by 1% from December 10? Again, there is no money, but you hold on.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 23 November 2022 09: 50
        -13
        Quote: iury.vorgul
        why WE ARE OBLIGED to fight "for the survival of Russia", and THEY have the right not to fight

        Because they studied at Oxfords until the age of 27 and therefore did not serve in our army.
        They are not in the military.

        Only having dealt with the external enemy, you can move on to solving internal problems.
        It makes no sense to clean up the house when a drunken neighbor breaks into your house and smashes everything. First you need to get your neighbor out.

        Quote: iury.vorgul
        Who made the decision to raise housing and communal services tariffs by 1% from December 10?

        Who told you this stuff?
        If you're not aware, we'll be raising our rates from July 1st. laughing
        1. Ronrew
          Ronrew 23 November 2022 10: 12
          +10
          If you allow me, I will answer for another commentator. Regarding tariffs, “The government has postponed the indexation of housing and communal services (HUS) tariffs from July 1, 2023 to December 1, 2022. Izvestia wrote about this with reference to a message from a representative of the Russian Ministry of Economic Development. It is specified that housing and communal services tariffs will be increased by 9 % national average. Regarding internal enemies, I think that it is pointless to fight with a "drunk neighbor" if they can stick a knife in your back. And the worst thing is that not only the “fifth column”, but also the Russian government itself is getting ready to stick the knife.
        2. iury.vorgul
          iury.vorgul 23 November 2022 10: 13
          +3
          Usually tariffs for housing and communal services are annually indexed from July 1. There was a similar increase this year. In autumn, the Government of the Russian Federation decided to postpone indexation from July 1, 2023 to December 1 of the current year.

          The Ministry of Economic Development of Russia explained this decision by the need to ensure the uninterrupted operation of the communal infrastructure. It is assumed that an extraordinary increase in the cost of a communal apartment will allow updating heating mains, water pipes and other housing and communal services.
          For example, this was told to me by the TSN channel (Tula News Service) - an insert from there. Don't hesitate to dial.
          1. iury.vorgul
            iury.vorgul 23 November 2022 10: 19
            +2
            If the press does not suit you, then you can familiarize yourself with the Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation No. 2053 of November 14.11.2022, XNUMX.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 23 November 2022 10: 29
              -1
              And indeed ... Well, what can I say - Happy New Year! +9%.
          2. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 23 November 2022 13: 28
            +3
            Quote: iury.vorgul
            Usually tariffs for housing and communal services are annually indexed from July 1. There was a similar increase this year. In autumn, the Government of the Russian Federation decided to postpone indexation from July 1, 2023 to December 1 of the current year.

            The Ministry of Economic Development of Russia explained this decision by the need to ensure the uninterrupted operation of the communal infrastructure. It is assumed that an extraordinary increase in the cost of a communal apartment will allow updating heating mains, water pipes and other housing and communal services.
            For example, this was told to me by the TSN channel (Tula News Service) - an insert from there. Don't hesitate to dial.

            Indeed, it is easier to explain the increase in tariffs than a steamed turnip, as well as another freeze on funded pensions.
        3. goblin xnumx
          goblin xnumx 23 November 2022 11: 22
          0
          By the way, about "when a drunken neighbor broke into you and smashes everything. First you need to get the neighbor out." What side are you writing from? interested after these words ...
        4. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 23 November 2022 13: 24
          +4
          Quote: Boris55
          Quote: iury.vorgul
          why WE ARE OBLIGED to fight "for the survival of Russia", and THEY have the right not to fight

          Because they studied at Oxfords until the age of 27 and therefore did not serve in our army.
          They are not in the military.

          Only having dealt with the external enemy, you can move on to solving internal problems.
          It makes no sense to clean up the house when a drunken neighbor breaks into your house and smashes everything. First you need to get your neighbor out.

          Quote: iury.vorgul
          Who made the decision to raise housing and communal services tariffs by 1% from December 10?

          Who told you this stuff?
          If you're not aware, we'll be raising our rates from July 1st. laughing

          Excuse me, but who broke into us? The situation is more like you came to a neighbor's garage to squeeze out, and got hit
  21. lopvlad
    lopvlad 23 November 2022 08: 40
    +1
    The evolution of pressure on the brain in Russia


    and where in the article is described the very evolution and its stages? I see only another attempt to put pressure on the brains of that population, the percentage of which in Russia is fortunately decreasing, namely, those who do not have that very critical thinking and are ready to consume all the information that they were given on a shovel both on TV and on the Internet (which, like them, is sacred believe them never lie).

    It is clear that a hand push will be qualified as inflicting severe beatings on Mr. Lieutenant Colonel on duty and our fair court will send Leshkov to jail.


    it is unnecessary to try to disguise and downplay what has been done, because in this way any blow to the head, hand, foot can be called a push, and any mobilized person should learn for himself that in the army, responsibility for certain actions has always been and will be much tougher than in civilian life (otherwise the army will simply fall apart and scatter how some contract soldiers fled at the beginning of the SVO) and before doing something, weigh each of their words, think over each of their actions.


    I visited this part more than once in those days when the Western Military District was still cooperating with independent media.


    What kind of independent media are we talking about? independent of whom? states? private customer?
    Let's stop misleading citizens, because no independent media in nature has ever existed and does not exist.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 23 November 2022 09: 12
      -2
      I would give you two pluses, but you can’t.
  22. Predometrix
    Predometrix 23 November 2022 08: 47
    +7
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    Staver writes good articles.


    Together with Ryabov, for the ninth month we have been reading the entire site like rusty junk supplied to Ukraine will not affect the course of the NWO at all
  23. Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 23 November 2022 08: 59
    +6
    Quit. Leave, "forgetting" to bring the order to withdraw. And they will fight to the last bullet, like those riot police, these goons, dressed in whatever they could buy. And they will.
    not a fact, the 17th year is more likely to be remembered
  24. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  25. tatra
    tatra 23 November 2022 09: 27
    +6
    And most importantly, nothing can be changed. Just as the Victory in the Great Patriotic War was the result of what the Soviet people are like, so the conduct of the NMD, and its outcome will be, is the result of what the anti-Soviet people who seized the RSFSR are.
  26. Blue fox
    Blue fox 23 November 2022 09: 35
    +4
    I perfectly understand the anguish and heartache due to the current situation in the country, in the army and at the front among most of my colleagues in VO, however, within the framework of this article, I consider it necessary to express my point of view on the issues raised:
    1. We are losing the information war with official mouthpieces of propaganda and coverage of a more or less real situation;
    2. In the situation with the master of sports and the lieutenant colonel, both are to blame (no, the main fault, of course, is with those who are much higher than them in the state hierarchy) and both should be punished in a balanced way. The only thing is that their actions should be assessed not by one video, but by at least both and without cropped versions, where the master of sports releases smoke in the officer’s face, and even where the officer puts his hands in his pockets and talks through his lip, it’s more fair . But the military prosecutor's office should work here, especially if, as some sources write, the comrade master of sports is a volunteer, and not mobilized, and the lieutenant colonel is not the direct commander, but simply fallen under the distribution. But the result should be one - the officially announced result of the proceedings and the measures taken to prevent its repetition.
    3. As a person related to providing mobilized equipment and uniforms (I consider it necessary to delete the word “mobiki” from the lexicon of every person who respects the defenders of the Motherland), as a volunteer, I can say the following about their appearance in the ranks - most likely this is just a good sign, which means that the men did well at the training ground, dried the issued uniform and put on a substitute. And yes, maybe they were stupidly pickled in the rain on the drill, alas. Also, for the sake of justice, it should be noted that “drunk” companies and people wash down their stress and other things with fiery water, sabotaging training and undermining discipline - there are also many of them and something needs to be done about this too (it should be understood that 300 thousand mobilized are not 300 thousand fighters, with all the ensuing conclusions ..)
    It is foolish to deny that we are in ... problems up to our ears, where the perpetrators are, in general, clear, the main question for everyone, what to do? - each of us must decide for himself and, strange as it sounds, and condemn each other for a choice different from our own, we can not now. Yes, you can not accept, but definitely not condemn. In Russia, everything is often not thanks to, but in spite of. So we work, we help the warring army, and not rottenness, we are preparing to get into line, or at least we do not interfere and respect, because only by defeating the enemy will it be possible to restore constitutional order in the country. Especially, on those points where about rights and freedoms. By law and justice for all WITHOUT exceptions, but not forgetting about duties.
  27. rocket757
    rocket757 23 November 2022 09: 51
    +3
    Recently, our information field is simply overflowing with various information, which is becoming more and more difficult to handle. The enemy is trying very hard to hit the brains of the Russian layman as hard as possible in order to put confusion and chaos in their heads. And get certain dividends from this.

    Unfortunately ... yes, we have a lot of things that we can only talk about, SORRY!!!
    When all this is over, when it's all fixed... who the hell knows!!! There is no special trust in the authorities, command, and indeed others, who must OBSERVE, PROTECT, and DO THE STATE BUSINESS!
    BUT, for all that, the people are not ready to destroy everything, abandon it and ... Russia is big, but there is nowhere to retreat!
    This is what keeps everything, for now, AS ALWAYS!!!
  28. buslaif
    buslaif 23 November 2022 09: 58
    +7
    Of course, since 1917, the officers of our army have not been any gentlemen, neither in status (they are not of a noble family), nor in terms of income, nor in terms of education and culture. You should always put yourself in the place of the person against whom assault is applied. When they write about this, I remember my youth in an overcoat, when the battalion commander, a front-line soldier, was instructing us before the divorce. He said that if you touch a button on a soldier’s tunic with your finger, then this is already assault. He was very loved and respected .When he left the army, after building a battalion of more than 700 souls on the occasion of parting with him, he decided on the same day to kill his wife and his permanent place of residence. The battalion saw it. Several hundred cadets fell out of the barracks, picked up 2 of his suitcases, opened the gates and went to the station to see off, which was not far from the school, realizing that they had made a collective self-propelled gun in front of the command. A commotion began on the platform of the station and in the building, the people were very frightened by such an abundance of people in military uniforms, the gypsies and urks fled in all directions, thinking that a raid had begun. They put the battalion commander and his wife on the train and brought things. He was moved to tears. These were the people.
  29. solar
    solar 23 November 2022 10: 31
    +2
    What bothers me at first is not even what I hear, but what I see. And I see a crowd of variegated and disgustingly dressed people. Is this the Russian army? Seriously? Excuse me, in my Voronezh homeless people often look better in terms of clothing. These are some kind of partisans, excuse me, living off what they get. And not necessarily in combat.

    And in Belgorod, what, were very different from those in the video? So they also dug trenches, the parade is not very suitable for this.
    provide an excellent backdrop for the military police. You can rejoice looking at the perfectly fitted equipment, good body armor (obviously they didn’t buy it themselves) and the dexterity with which they twist the arms of the mobilized. The training of our military police is encouraging.

    There is such a definition: mobilization is such an event in which the professional military, who receive a lot of money in peacetime, force civilians to go into battle.
    I immediately remember the colonel, who teaches the mobilized to march and march on the parade ground, and these, "immaculately dressed."
    there was information that the mobilized Alexander Leshkov, who "ran into" a lieutenant colonel who did not want to fulfill his official duties

    The same is true in peacetime. The major, who said that canned food for soldiers was replaced with dog food, received either 4 or 5 years.
  30. German
    German 23 November 2022 10: 52
    +8
    Do you know what haunts me in the story with the colonel near Moscow! In an article on this site, on other sites and in the cart: many said that the soldier must be punished, since there must be discipline in the Army! And the soldier was punished. And they announced it officially.
    And where are the reports about the punishment of the Colonel? After all, there are statutes, regulations on the order of training. He didn't do them! I don’t want to admit the thought that they don’t exist, even in a nightmare. Or is it possible not to do shit in the Army in the conditions of mobilization and nothing will happen for it? Where are the reports that the situation was sorted out, the training was adjusted, the colonel was punished for the lack of it? Everyone discussed the Soldier... And who will discuss the punishment of the Officer? The colonel has a boss - is he also out of business? Did he check the training of Soldiers in his units? Did he even come once, talk to people? Even the name of the commander of this colonel was not heard anywhere ...
    Quote from the article:
    "But they will not be arrested, judged and imprisoned."
  31. Maks1995
    Maks1995 23 November 2022 10: 58
    +4
    Reasonable.
    And if you remember a bunch of articles about the Chechen wars, that the Bosses leaked information to the Militants, sold the latest weapons from warehouses, gave treacherous orders ....
    ... and the almost complete absence of articles on the punishment of those responsible with shoulder straps ...

    It gets kinda sad...

    disenfranchised bottoms... and untouchable tops...
    (remember Colonel Zakharchenko, how many billions had to be stolen in order to at least be arrested ...)
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 25 November 2022 13: 03
      0
      Why so many capitalized words?
  32. tatra
    tatra 23 November 2022 11: 21
    -2
    The State Duma of the Russian Federation approved the reduction of spending on the economy in the adopted draft budget for 2023-2025.

    ▪️Expenditures under the "national defense" item will increase by 43% compared to the amount adopted a year ago.

    ▪️ Under the heading “national security and law enforcement”, spending will increase by 50% compared to 2022.

    ▪️Expenditures under the item "national economy" in 2023 will be cut by almost 20%.

    ▪️Funding of the state program "Development of industry and increasing its competitiveness" in 2023 is reduced by 30%.

    ▪️The state program "Economic Development and Innovative Economy" is shrinking by 18%.

    Hello, Greater North Korea, which the Russian enemies of the USSR called for so long.
    1. Ronrew
      Ronrew 23 November 2022 11: 38
      +1
      This is not even Greater North Korea, in the DPRK the industry is being strengthened at the same time as the defense, no - this is Greater Honduras.
    2. saygon66
      saygon66 23 November 2022 14: 57
      +3
      - Unclear...
      - If you reduce investment in industry, why increase investment in the army and police? It is unlikely that it will be possible to transfer the Army to self-sufficiency and self-financing ...
  33. Helmsman
    Helmsman 23 November 2022 11: 27
    +2
    What goners, ordinary men. The military starts the war, and such ordinary men end it.
  34. vvn_vl
    vvn_vl 23 November 2022 11: 35
    +3
    while managers are sitting in the offices of the Ministry of Defense, who, with a smart look, approve operational plans, while former political workers are talking about the situation from the screens, until the kids of deputies and officials appear in the Donbass, nothing good awaits us
  35. The comment was deleted.
  36. Postcode
    Postcode 23 November 2022 11: 45
    -4
    On the same day, they discussed the video with plaintive ponies in a chat with classmates and colleagues, smiled ... there is so much funny, so much staged, almost every phrase can be taken and laughed, but these are only those who at least a little think about it. Starting with the fact that they were abandoned with only machine guns (like, they didn’t give two machine guns each?), They forced them to dig trenches ... well, don’t swarm, the first arrival and goodbye ...
    Standing on the parade ground in a motley federal district, as far as it is clear from the comments, they have already bought all this in stores. Why they bought uniforms, clothes, they themselves can’t really explain si = they can, except, “they told me to take care of themselves at the military registration and enlistment office”, or in “I saw it on the net, they said ..” No one in home pajamas went to the trench planted, everyone received a standard FD. There were and are problems with certain sizes, with some of the equipment, fashionable "gadgets" from the category of helmets, body armor made of Kevlar ... someone was given a sample of the USSR period from NZ, but no one was sent naked and with Mosin rifles.
    To be consistent, can you link to the Decree of the State Defense Committee of the period of the Second World War, which says that attack aircraft pilots should not be sent to the penal battalion? Where does such information come from?
    Why verbiage about "abandoned" during the retreat? Where does such reliable information come from?
    To broaden my horizons and general military literacy, I will tell you that "withdrawal" is a maneuver by troops, consisting in the withdrawal of troops agreed with the higher command to a more favorable, pre-prepared line. To ensure this maneuver, subunits, parts of the cover are determined, their task is to hold positions and ensure the most comfortable conditions for the withdrawal of the main forces. That is, their task is to remain in their positions, to continue to defend them until they receive a command to withdraw. But this command may not come to them. This is a war, often tens and hundreds have to be sacrificed in order to save thousands ... unfortunately.
    1. Ronrew
      Ronrew 23 November 2022 12: 20
      +5
      For some reason, these tens and hundreds of victims do not include high-ranking officials and the military, as well as their children. Regarding uniforms and training in military affairs, I will say this - back in 2002, they lived in the same tents at the training camp, were dressed according to the principle - what would fit on whom (I personally had white camouflage), fed barley and "polar bear meat", for a month they shot as many as 6 rounds. And 20 years later, I see the same thing, like - stability, I would like it to be consistently good, but it turns out as always.
      1. Woodman
        Woodman 23 November 2022 13: 02
        -3
        Quote from Ronrew
        For some reason, these tens and hundreds of victims do not include high-ranking officials and the military,

        According to various sources, from 4 to 7 generals died. Is that "high-ranking military" enough?
        1. Postcode
          Postcode 23 November 2022 13: 08
          0
          More than 10 generals, several dozen colonels ....
        2. Ronrew
          Ronrew 23 November 2022 13: 15
          +2
          I am aware that there were losses in the generals, but I can’t comment on how high-ranking military men they were, in view of the fact that in recent years every bureaucratic “snot” walks in general uniforms, which compromises these uniforms.
          1. Woodman
            Woodman 23 November 2022 13: 29
            -3
            Quote from Ronrew
            I can’t comment, in view of the fact that in recent years every bureaucratic “snot” walks in general uniforms,

            Finding a biography of the general on the net is not difficult.
            About the "official snot". These "snots" are dying at the front, doing their duty. And you "from the couch" contemptuously call them "snot".
      2. Postcode
        Postcode 23 November 2022 13: 22
        +1
        [quote = Ronrew] For some reason, these tens and hundreds of victims do not include high-ranking officials and the military, as well as their children.
        [quote = Ronrew] For some reason, these tens and hundreds of victims do not include high-ranking officials and the military, as well as their children.
        Do you personally know everyone who went undercover? Or is it your speculation?
        "Officers" should not be there at all, there are soldiers and officers, and from whom they are recruited, from officials, peasants, teachers ... this is how it turned out ... high-ranking military men are they? Did the chief of the general staff or the division commander have to personally take up defense in the position? Maybe it's none of their business...
        It is difficult for me to judge where, what and how you did at military training camps, and it’s not interesting, at military training camps they rarely do what they are supposed to do since the days of the USSR, unfortunately. At the expense of life in tents ... at the forefront, the tent dreams in a dream like a 5 * hotel)))), they sleep right in the trenches, on a power tank or BM (until it cools down), then they move inside ... Yandex food , Dodo pizza, and Artur's Shish kebab, there, too, very rarely calls in, it happened, you chew biscuits with breadcrumbs for two or three days, and if there is half-frozen stew, then a jar for three or four, a delicacy already. It’s like there, a fire was kindled, a shaitan bird flew in, bombed itself, or set up an artel ... if in the Second World War and even in Afghanistan KP 130 some thread could smoke on the battalion’s PCBs or go in a column, then this doesn’t work here )))
        1. Ronrew
          Ronrew 23 November 2022 14: 00
          +3
          Many of the dead generals died just because they were not doing their job and climbed to the front line. I do not argue that a soldier must endure deprivation when necessary, but precisely when necessary, and not on an ongoing basis. We do not need an army of "disenfranchised", we need a modern, well-trained, well-armed army with a strong rear. And we get the hell knows what the armed militia.
          1. Postcode
            Postcode 23 November 2022 14: 31
            0
            How many of the dead generals and colonels did you personally know to talk about it so confidently? How many of the living do you know?
            1. Ronrew
              Ronrew 23 November 2022 14: 52
              +1
              We, at least for now, live in an open world where it is very difficult to "get lost". And information about the dead generals and senior officers is freely available on the Internet, it is easy to get acquainted with this information and draw the appropriate conclusions. If you need specific examples, then look for yourself (I'm just too lazy), as today's youth says - "Google to help you."
              1. Postcode
                Postcode 23 November 2022 15: 27
                0
                So, that's exactly what I read on the Internet, including about the dead generals and colonels, knowing what actually happened, in some specific cases, and I understand that under a good pretext, they write out delusional nonsense. For the average layman, probably beautiful, in fact, in a different way.
                In modern warfare, you don't have to go to the front lines. Even in 1941, the command post of the division was in the zone of enemy fire, and in our time, taking into account modern means of reconnaissance, guidance and fire destruction of the KNP of the division commander, army, it does not differ much from the company and platoon.
                1. Ronrew
                  Ronrew 23 November 2022 15: 51
                  +3
                  In a modern war, even a division should be of the appropriate composition and strength (12-15 thousand people), and we have armies of such a size. In order not to be amazed by command posts of the divisional level and higher, back in Soviet times they knew what to do, but now, where is modern encrypted communication, where are electronic warfare and electronic warfare equipment, where are modern air defense systems (primarily "anti-drone"), where is all this, almost everywhere gouging and show.
                  1. Postcode
                    Postcode 23 November 2022 16: 18
                    0
                    I’ll ask again, perky, where such data on the quantitative composition of divisions come from. needed in modern warfare? And what divisions, actually ?! What academy taught you this information? Schoolchildren have already learned to write about what is needed, about fashionable words (such as electronic warfare, RER, etc.) .... in what way, all this dialectics is related to the topic under discussion? The transition from a plate to a saucepan was not planned.))) Or can you, as an experienced, competent specialist in this, tell with examples where all of the above takes place today? Especially, about "effective" air defense from "anti-drone"))))
                    1. Ronrew
                      Ronrew 23 November 2022 17: 17
                      +3
                      Oh, are you going to elicit information from me in an orderly tone? He did not graduate from the academy (reserve starley, service 2003-2005), but firstly, those who graduated from them are now zhidenko, and secondly, no one forbade elementary logic.
                      1. Postcode
                        Postcode 24 November 2022 07: 58
                        0
                        Well, what are you ....)))))), I most likely refused mine))) ... taking into account the fact that you did not graduate from the academies, in fact, they graduate, I dare to notice that your understanding in many matters is very modest, if we assume that one of your grandfathers was the head of the department of operational art at the General Staff Academy, and your dad graduated with honors, and you personally are related to the production of combat components of the most fashionable rockets. Therefore, the word "something", I think, is the main thing here ...
                      2. Ronrew
                        Ronrew 24 November 2022 13: 31
                        0
                        film "Chapaev" (1934).
                        I didn't go through the academies. I didn't finish them. - Vasily Ivanovich. There is only one step from sarcasm to ordinary everyday rudeness, should it be taken?
                      3. Postcode
                        Postcode 24 November 2022 14: 45
                        -2
                        And this, whatever you like, dear sir .... when a senior lieutenant confidently discusses the topic of the necessary strength of a division in a modern war, for example, to me. I always want to know where such confidence comes from? Under some assumption, I can imagine that, as a commander, the senior lieutenant managed to command a battalion (I met such), but, here is a division .... here, at least the Frunze Academy needs to be mastered .... actually, this is what we are talking about. But globally, I agree, we need restructuring in the army.
                      4. Ronrew
                        Ronrew 24 November 2022 16: 02
                        +1
                        The fact of the matter is that I do not see any discussion, and communication in the style of "himself ....." is not communication, but a soft sending, you know where. What is the use of these "academies" if at the output, according to the interim results of the SVO, we get ... what we get, no, I do not argue that it is necessary to learn, but preferably from the mistakes of others. By the way, through "second hands" I know that the morale at the Frunze Academy is extremely low in connection with current events in Ukraine.
                      5. Postcode
                        Postcode 24 November 2022 16: 19
                        0
                        And the moral situation in the entire army now is far away, not festive, there is no reason for fun and bravura. The fighting spirit is present, but one spirit will not go far. The sense from the academies is not very bad. The problem is that this knowledge and some experience cannot be applied. There is a lot of incomprehensible and even strange in everything that happens. And when it’s not that every soldier doesn’t understand his maneuver, the generals can’t fully understand. As with Kartsev, "we play here, but not here, we flip through, and again ..." ..a lot of ins and outs, but they don't really let you do military affairs. And in the end, they are also trying to make extreme generals out of generals, and expose them to the ridicule of the people ... this is very unfortunate.
                      6. Ronrew
                        Ronrew 24 November 2022 16: 51
                        +2
                        Yes, when politicians during hostilities try to "steer" the army - hit here, don't hit there - we pump oil and gas there and generally communicate with "respectable partners", we get the corresponding result.
                    2. Ronrew
                      Ronrew 23 November 2022 17: 26
                      +3
                      And yes, both grandfather and father were officers, my mother served, I myself work for the defense industry and I dare to hope that I understand something in military affairs.
        2. ada
          ada 24 November 2022 00: 51
          0
          I definitely support. But, here I want to make a few corrections. Withdrawal from the position and withdrawal from the line (to the line, to the district) - after all, the word "Comfort" is superfluous there, otherwise the people will take it as the norm wassat and then it's time to say goodbye.
          Quote from Cap
          ... At the expense of life in tents ... at the forefront of the tent ...
          Tents for combat and combat support of SHF for the placement of personnel are not provided, because - evil, they are tabulated only for the dining room and MP. For taking into account the decision of the tents (they were shelled out of funds in the MV), it was possible, under the hot hand of the commander, to easily say goodbye to the position or service ahead of schedule, despite orders and medals, length of service and other merits. Only into the ground in shelters or adapted "local items" and no "bedroom" in technology. Everyone violates and everyone pays with their lives and disruption of the BZ. It’s also impossible to joke with a spark and a smoke, and stoves are only for buried chimneys or in buildings and structures. The IRP is specifically designed to provide hot or reheated food (including body heat) - a thing! I had to eat for weeks. Bread to him. True, there was alcohol, but this is beyond the norm. It is certainly difficult with hot food and baked bread now, and KP and PP are all plates with unmasking properties, new solutions are needed here. It is difficult to deliver hot food to the position in thermoses for the first echelon, most likely the guys are chewing dry rations, it’s good if IRP.
          1. Postcode
            Postcode 24 November 2022 08: 08
            +1
            Expanded and meaningful))))).... that's why I am writing that today there is a tent on the front line, with a stove, with an internal "bleach", even two bunk beds, wooden flooring... a dream of a lifetime. IRP is by far the most exemplary food option. And at the expense of sleeping on the power one, when the car is in position, especially in security, there is nothing seditious here, the commander and gunner-operator are on guard, the mechanic smells, the armor plate of the BMD power compartment is somehow "drowned", the sidewalls create additional shelter from wind, if you also have a sleeping bag, a nice thing for a couple of hours. By the way, I don’t see anything shameful in the word “comfort”, even at the school such a concept was instilled as creating comfortable conditions while in field conditions. Returning to the tents, this is, like a luxury, if the tents are sewn from raincoats, on the ground there is dead wood and in a sleeping bag itself, this is business, and if under a pine tree, slightly buried in a snowdrift, or simply by raising the collar of a jacket ... economy) ))))
            1. ada
              ada 24 November 2022 13: 39
              0
              Quote from Cap
              ... even at the school, such a concept was instilled as the creation of comfortable conditions while in the field. ...

              Wow, I didn’t expect it, it’s clear that time dictates its own.
    2. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 25 November 2022 13: 06
      0
      As far as I know (unfortunately, I can’t provide a link now), pilots were not sent to penal battalions, there were penal squadrons for them.
  37. Ulan.1812
    Ulan.1812 23 November 2022 11: 56
    +1
    There is only one conclusion from what has been written and comments, it is necessary to put things in order everywhere.
    Both in the army and in the rear.
    And there must be an inevitable responsibility and punishment for those who messed up, broke the law, and so on.
    And this should be regardless of positions and titles.
    The army should not turn into a caste of untouchables.
    However, so are the officials.
  38. gromit
    gromit 23 November 2022 12: 07
    +4
    "there is no order in the army and it must be restored" Usually it sounds from the side of pot-bellied officers who want tin dummies to be silently sent to slaughter under their command.

    Now I'm not talking about poor supplies, lack of equipment, this is a separate painful topic.

    I'm talking about solving problems that aren't really problems at all.
    It turned out that civil officials understand the principles of managing people many times better than fucking scumbags in uniform (not all)) living either in a fantasy world, or in the 17th century of serfdom.
    They threw a fake about the "Voronezh battalion" - the governor was blown up on Saturday, met with the women, reassured them.
    Video about the marines - the seaside governor flies to Moscow, then to the hospital for the wounded, explains, reassures.
    Riots in the Kazan assembly point - local authorities (not MO!!), brought dry firewood, new tents, generators, sockets for charging mobile ...

    Just don't be stupid in the 21st century.
    What, the head of the Kazan point himself could not find a firewood machine and a generator?
    Or is there no pleasant, sympathetic woman in uniform for meetings with relatives in the bloated staff of the Moscow Region? Meet, listen, calm down. Everything - nothing else is needed.

    It is enough not to yell with a clumsy obscenity, listen and apply at least some gestures to correct the situation.

    Now imagine how Governor Gusev calls the National Guard to disperse women, Kozhemyako stigmatizes the Marines as cowards, and Smolensk deputies send relatives of Mobiks to.
    Would that solve the problem? No, it made it worse.
    But on the other hand, you don’t have to go anywhere, listen to crying and accusations, and on Saturday you can get enough sleep, and then you can mourn about the “Russia that we lost”.
  39. Igor_Aretano
    Igor_Aretano 23 November 2022 12: 40
    -8
    Normal TsIPSoshnaya article, the author will be praised. Half of the visitors of any site reads only the headlines of materials - everything is fine with the heading: it performs the task of injecting negativity. The content is also cool, anti-Russian. Everything is according to the CIPSO manual: we cannot make a pro-Ukrainian Maidan in Russia, let's make a pseudo-patriotic Maidan.
    1. Ronrew
      Ronrew 23 November 2022 12: 52
      +3
      Damn, I made a vow to myself without having reliable information not to call anyone a "cissist" (they called themselves so for their great "love" for the current government), but still I'll take an interest - how is the weather in Kyiv?
      1. Igor_Aretano
        Igor_Aretano 24 November 2022 22: 26
        -1
        Well, you better know that. There, they say, there is no light. But you somehow dodged, wrote a neutralizing comment.
    2. Woodman
      Woodman 23 November 2022 13: 09
      -3
      Quote: Igor_Aretano
      Normal TsIPSoshnaya article, the author will be praised. Half of the visitors

      "Half of the visitors" may even receive an offer to make money on the sale of the Motherland.
      The CIA around the world is looking for Russian citizens who are dissatisfied with the special operation, said CIA Executive Director David Marlowe, The Wall Street Journal writes on November 22.

      “We are looking all over the world for Russians who are just as disgusted by this as we are. Because we are open for business,” he said, speaking at the Michael Hayden Center for Intelligence, Politics and International Security. A video of his speech was released by the Hayden Center itself.

      But this news hasn't hit the spot yet.
      1. Ronrew
        Ronrew 23 November 2022 13: 32
        +3
        No, the news was on the site. Hmm ... but a good idea for additional income, if the authorities can go to "agreements" and pump resources through Ukraine, then why shouldn't ordinary citizens cooperate with the CIA according to this logic. But will the CIA itself pull such a financial burden? But seriously, yes, we can expect that the recruitment of Russians by the CIA and other special services of NATO countries will take on a massive character, failures at the front contribute to this.
        1. Woodman
          Woodman 23 November 2022 13: 40
          +1
          Quote from Ronrew
          No, the news on the site was

          Weird. Before writing a special news feed, I flipped through it for two days. Well, I will not argue, we can and missed. I won't flip through again, though.
          1. Ronrew
            Ronrew 23 November 2022 14: 06
            0
            https://topwar.ru/205536-zamdirektora-cru-iz-za-sobytij-na-ukraine-my-poluchaem-novye-vozmozhnosti-po-naboru-novyh-rossijskih-agentov-v-svoi-rjady.html
            1. Woodman
              Woodman 23 November 2022 14: 08
              +1
              Thank you.
              (Even a simple human “thank you” is required by the site administration to be expressed in a large set of letters ...)
    3. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 25 November 2022 13: 08
      0
      Well, actually, Skomorokhov is one of the main ones on this site, so it’s impossible to accuse him of cissism.
  40. Olegsv
    Olegsv 23 November 2022 14: 09
    +5
    The author is well done, thanks for the honesty and truth! When everyone around is afraid and says what is needed, and not what is. Deep respect to you!!!
  41. Radikal
    Radikal 23 November 2022 14: 11
    +6
    Quote: Wedmak
    That is, you beat? The people will not understand anything - for the most part, this is a crowd dependent on slogans and driven by momentary benefits. Which has been used in dark power by those in power for more than one hundred years. Right now, we just don’t have enough revolution to shoot ourselves in the head. Control.
    Now the daily work to eliminate the identified shortcomings and the elimination of slobs, saboteurs, nihilists and other untrustworthy people from the leadership will save us. You don't think it's that easy, do you?

    Something elusive slips in your comments, but I just don’t understand what .... Oh yes, how did I not immediately realize, alas to me. You express yourself as a person who holds the position of the Supreme High Command, and almost every week speaks from the screen on various occasions, spreading his thoughts along the tree, however, the words and meaning are the same, which must be understood in such a way that everything is supposedly fine, we (that is, - they) are moving forward, although where this "front" is, he has not indicated for 20 years .... lol
    PS I did not want to comment on anything, but the "optimism" of some commentators forced me to. In general, from the analysis of the current situation, the realization of what is happening and will happen, it becomes scary that I don’t even want to talk about it here .... sad
  42. Igorash
    Igorash 23 November 2022 14: 23
    +2
    Everything is correctly noted, with the exception of one. For the rest, this is a lesson and will not have to be surprised in the future if the officers start getting bullets in the back .. It already happened ... long ago in 1914 ... Unfortunately, in the current army of the Russian Federation, the charter is not law for all military personnel ... Well, the military police are the same people .... living in the same country ... And you shouldn’t forget about this either ... they. What to do? Only by personal example and personal responsibility, officers can they must gain authority from their subordinates. Without this, the Russian army will lose, no matter how much money is offered to the soldiers ... But this was not mentioned in the article ... Does it mean that there are no options other than punishment and fear? That is, we will lose?
  43. Oleg Peshkov
    Oleg Peshkov 23 November 2022 14: 58
    0
    Roma... You are the best! Frunzenskaya Embankment in Trenches...
  44. yuriy55
    yuriy55 23 November 2022 15: 18
    +4
    Novel!
    Our words hit like peas against a wall.
    We all understand why the Red Army won in 1945.
    If someone got the impression about “to whom is the war, to whom is the mother dear” and about the military flea markets of the WWII era, when in the markets they sold products from military warehouses openly ... Yes, yes, yes ... Until then, until fins twirled...
    Today, the picture is somewhat upside down. some people outside the country dictate the rules of trade in Russia, prices and the procedure for paying taxes and fees.
    A return to a socialist (socially just) society will help raise patriotism. There are few who want to lay down their lives for various bourgeois and millionaire ministers ...
    Every day the idea takes root more and more that all the braces have long rotted away (bent, rusted, peeled off), and some still continue to sew together scraps and pieces of unity with white threads...
    You can't keep the people as a herd...
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 25 November 2022 13: 13
      0
      Unfortunately, several times I heard stories from a number of people about their relatives, who during the war years enriched themselves in a not entirely honest way, including trading in sent American condensed milk and stew, engaging in speculation, etc. And they had nothing, neither during the war, nor after, they lived quite well. And this is in Stalin's times.
      1. yuriy55
        yuriy55 25 November 2022 13: 50
        0
        Quote: Sergej1972
        Unfortunately, several times I heard stories about their relatives from a number of people ...

        ... who kicked the door to the IVS office and asked from the threshold: “What?! In the forehead wanted, the old cockroach?!”
        Many of them thawed in the spring along the banks of the Kolyma ... yes
        *****
        They huddled in the corners, like all other speculators, and handed over to each other at every opportunity and uncomfortable situation. I saw these "dared men" and "nihilists". They sat on the benches after their release (who survived) and made all sorts of crap for sale (who knew how), and the rest in the Recycling office worked - they didn’t take such work on the road ...
        1. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 25 November 2022 15: 32
          0
          I do not deny at all that many came across and were imprisoned. And someone didn't get caught. No, these people occupied modest positions in the trade and supply system, managed small warehouses, etc. They speculated and stole on a small scale, they had enough. And they managed not to get caught, which makes their great-nephews proud.)
  45. barkonaut
    barkonaut 23 November 2022 15: 29
    +1
    In the meantime, the fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are undergoing monthly training at the training grounds of NATO countries. No pretensions to preparation. In the same form. And the program is available there, and the training base is equipped.
    It is a pity that I did not find ways to morally motivate the mobilized. And a uniform field uniform. It is clear that they have a lot to do there, but it does not hurt to take care of people.
  46. Russian Patriot
    Russian Patriot 23 November 2022 15: 47
    +4
    The most pressing thing on my brains is that our army is retreating and surrendering Russian cities. And our fleet is not able to do anything at all.
    And this is just the beginning. Soon we are expecting the commissioning of ZNPP and the entire Zaporozhye region
    And there is no end in sight to this. There is no doubt that the mobilized, fighting for it is not clear for what purpose and equipped with the world by thread, will not be able to do anything. There was no connection, and there never will be. Instead of T-90 or T-72, rusty T-62 troughs will go into battle.
    This is the demilitarization of Russia.
    1. Ronrew
      Ronrew 23 November 2022 16: 11
      +1
      Well, there are a lot of T-72 tanks in storage, but apparently there are not enough 125 mm shells for their guns, so the old T-62s with a gun caliber of 115 mm are being removed from conservation.
      1. Russian Patriot
        Russian Patriot 23 November 2022 23: 53
        0
        The problem is different.
        Over the years of modernization of the T-72 and their deliveries to other countries, a vicious practice has developed of replacing components, assemblies and small parts not due to new ones, but due to other tanks in storage.
        And it's almost never documented.
        Because:
        The state allocates money for the production of new parts;
        These funds are successfully stolen;
        For the remaining pennies, a bribe is given to the head of the storage base;
        There, the required units are removed from the stored T-72s and put on the repaired T-72s.
        Something like that.
        Moreover, many in the Moscow Region knew about it. But they didn't do anything. Because everything in this department is rotten through and through.
        And everything was revealed when the question arose of removing many T-72s from storage. It turned out that they were only intact according to the documents.
  47. The comment was deleted.
  48. Bayun
    Bayun 23 November 2022 16: 07
    +2
    The reason for what is happening: an objective change in the world paradigm from information scarcity to information surplus.

    Previously, in order to find what you needed, you had to SEARCH for it, but today you need to be able to CHOOSE from 100500 options for this very "necessary", implying that 90% are fake. Or in the example of the Author with information - false.

    The problem is relevant, both for the Housewife, and for the Rulers with the Generals. Even the elders do not have the skill of quick and correct choice. For a housewife, the matter is not so critical: a spoiled dish or household utensils. For the authorities and the army, the losses from the inability to "manage the choice" will be worse.

    What to do? To begin with, TOTALLY LIMIT the info-garbage! Censorship, moderation and verification. No "fresh" news in the style of "cheers, we break" or "everything is lost." Release of news for an uninvolved layman only 48 hours after the event. Instantaneous notification should be left for the special services and for the townsfolk to whom it concerns.

    Completely remove "criminal chronicles", "journalistic investigations", "independent military correspondents", etc. from the news. No anonymity on the web.

    "Freedom of speech" must be replaced by "freedom of hearing"! Only DEPENDENT and COMPETENT sources should remain, the right to be which should be regulated approximately like medical licenses: special education, licensing, constant monitoring and a bunch of checks.

    Freedom of speech with an abundance of information is EVIL.
  49. Vladimir100
    Vladimir100 23 November 2022 17: 41
    +2
    Quote: Ilya-spb
    a single official information body and the most severe censorship;
    - counterintelligence everywhere and at all levels, secrecy mode

    What are you going to censor. and the secrecy regime, as always, from their own because NATO knows everything
    and in general about all of the above, the authoritarian-oligarchic regime dreams with you.
  50. katarsafebox.com
    katarsafebox.com 23 November 2022 17: 48
    -1
    Generals can abandon cities reclaimed with the blood of our soldiers,

    Actually, that's all. This is the shibboleth, so the next "patriot" unchained himself, like those demons.