Another cumulative myth

At the dawn of practical use of cumulative ammunition, during the Second World War, they were quite officially called "armor-burning", since at that time the physics of the cumulative effect was unclear. And although in the post-war period it was precisely established that the cumulative effect has nothing to do with “burning through”, the echoes of this myth are still found in the philistine environment. But in general, it can be considered that the “armor-burning myth” has safely died. However, “a holy place is never empty” and to replace one myth regarding cumulative ammunition another one immediately appeared ...

This time, the production of fantasies about the effect of cumulative ammunition on the crews of armored objects was put on stream. The main tenets of the visionaries are:
• crews tanks allegedly kills with excess pressure created inside the armored object by cumulative ammunition after breaking through the armor;
• crews that keep the hatches open, allegedly remain alive thanks to the “free exit” for excessive pressure.
Here are examples of such statements from various forums, sites of “experts” and print publications (the spelling of the originals is preserved, among the quoted ones there are very authoritative print publications):

“- A question for connoisseurs. With the defeat of the tank cumulative ammunition, what are the damaging factors affecting the crew?
- Overpressure first. All other factors accompanying ";

“Assuming that the cumulative jet and fragments of pierced armor itself rarely hit more than one crew member, I would say that the overwhelming pressure was the main striking factor ... caused by the cumulative jet ...”;

“It should also be noted that the high damaging power of shaped charges is due to the fact that when a body, tank or other machine is jetted through, the jet rushes inside, where it fills all the space (for example, in a tank) and causes severe damage to people ...”;
“The tank commander, sergeant V.Rusnak, recalled:“ It is very scary when the cumulative projectile hits the tank. "Burning" armor anywhere. If the hatches in the tower are open, then a huge pressure force is throwing people out of the tank ... "

"... a smaller volume of our tanks does not allow to reduce the impact of INCREASING PRESSURE (the shock wave factor is not considered) on the crew, and that it is the increase in pressure that kills him ..."

“What is the calculation made, because of what the actual death should come, if you didn’t kill the drops, let's say a fire did not arise, and the pressure is excessive or tears just into pieces in a confined space, or a skull from inside will burst. There is something tricky with this excess pressure connected. Because of that, the hatch was kept open ”;

“The open hatch sometimes saves the fact that a tank wave can be thrown out by a tanker through it. A cumulative jet can simply fly through the human body first, and secondly, when the pressure rises very quickly in a very short time + it heats up everything around it is very unlikely to survive. From the stories of eyewitnesses tankers tear the tower, eyes fly out of the sockets ”;

“With the defeat of the armored vehicle by a cumulative grenade, the factors affecting the crew are excessive pressure, fragments of armor and a cumulative jet. But taking into account the adoption by the crew of measures precluding the formation of excessive pressure inside the car, such as the opening of hatches and loopholes, fragments of armor and a cumulative jet remain the factors affecting personnel. ”

Probably, the “horrors of war” are enough in the presentation of both citizens interested in military affairs and the military personnel themselves. We turn to the case - to the refutation of these errors. First, we consider whether, in principle, the appearance of supposedly “slaughter pressure” inside armored objects from the effect of cumulative ammunition. I apologize to knowledgeable readers for the theoretical part, they can skip it.

PHYSICS OF CUMULATIVE EFFECT

Fig. 1. Tandem cumulative ammunition of the German RPG "Panzerfaust" 3-IT600. 1 - tip; 2 - precharge; 3 - head fuse; 4 - telescopic bar; 5 - main charge with focusing lens; 6 - bottom fuse.

Fig. 2. Pulsed x-ray detonation of the shaped charge. 1 - armor barrier; 2 - shaped charge; 3 - cumulative notch (funnel) with metal lining; 4 - charge detonation products; 5 - pestle; 6 - jet head; 7 - removal of material barriers.

The principle of operation of cumulative ammunition is based on the physical effect of the accumulation (cumulation) of energy in converging detonation waves, which are formed when the explosive charge is detonated, which has a hollow in the shape of a funnel. As a result, in the direction of the focus of the notch, a high-speed stream of explosion products is formed - a cumulative jet. An increase in the armor-piercing action of the projectile in the presence of a notch in the bursting charge was noted as early as the 19th century (Monroe effect, 1888) [2], and in 1914 the first patent for an armor-piercing cumulative projectile [3] was received.

The metal lining of the recess in the explosive charge makes it possible to form a cumulative jet of high density from the lining material. From the outer layers of the lining is formed the so-called pestle (tail part of the cumulative jet). The inner layers of the lining form the head of the jet. The lining of heavy ductile metals (eg, copper) forms a continuous cumulative jet with a density of 85-90% of the density of the material, capable of maintaining integrity at high elongation (up to 10 funnel diameters). The speed of the metal cumulative jet reaches in its head part 10-12 km / s. In this case, the speed of movement of parts of the cumulative jet along the axis of symmetry is not the same and amounts to 2 km / s in the tail section (the so-called velocity gradient). Under the action of the velocity gradient, the jet in free flight stretches in the axial direction with a simultaneous decrease in the cross section. At a distance of more than 10-12 diameters of the funnel of a shaped charge, the jet begins to break up into fragments and its penetration effect decreases sharply.

Experiments on trapping a cumulative jet by a porous material without its destruction showed no recrystallization effect, i.e. the metal temperature does not reach the melting point, it is even lower than the point of the first recrystallization. Thus, the cumulative jet is a metal in the liquid state, heated to relatively low temperatures. The temperature of the metal in the cumulative jet does not exceed 200-400 ° degrees (some experts estimate the upper limit in 600 ° [4]).

When meeting a barrier (armor), the cumulative jet is decelerated and conveys pressure to the barrier. The material of the jet spreads in the direction opposite to its velocity vector. At the boundary of the materials of the jet and the barrier, a pressure arises, the magnitude of which (up to 12-15 t / sq. Cm) usually exceeds by one or two orders of magnitude the tensile strength of the material of the obstacle. Therefore, the material of the barrier is removed (“washed out”) from the high-pressure zone in the radial direction.

These processes at the macro level are described by hydrodynamic theory, in particular, for them the Bernoulli equation is valid, as well as the one obtained by MA Lavrentiev. hydrodynamic equation for shaped charges [5]. At the same time, the calculated depth of penetration of the obstacle is not always consistent with the experimental data. Therefore, in recent decades, the physics of the interaction of a cumulative jet with an obstacle has been studied at a submicroscopic level, based on a comparison of the kinetic energy of an impact with the energy of rupture of the interatomic and molecular bonds of the substance [6]. The results obtained are used in the development of new types of both cumulative ammunition and armor barriers.

Zabronevy action of the cumulative ammunition is provided by high-speed cumulative jet penetrated through the barrier, and secondary fragments of armor. The temperature of the jet is sufficient to ignite the powder charges, fumes lubricants and hydraulic fluids. The damaging effect of the cumulative jet, the number of secondary fragments decrease with increasing armor thickness.

FUNGARY ACTION OF A CUMULATIVE AMMUNITION

Fig. 3. Entrance (A) and output (B) holes punched by a cumulative jet in a thick-bronze barrier. Source: [4]

Now for more information on overpressure and shock wave. By itself, the cumulative jet does not create any significant shock wave by virtue of its small mass. The shock wave is created by undermining the explosive charge of the ammunition (high-explosive action). The shock wave CAN NOT penetrate beyond the thick-bronch barrier through the hole punched by the cumulative jet, because the diameter of such an opening is negligible, it is impossible to transmit any significant impulse through it. Accordingly, excessive pressure cannot be created inside the armored vehicle.

The gaseous products formed during the explosion of a shaped charge are under pressure 200-250 thousand atmospheres and are heated to a temperature 3500-4000 °. The products of the explosion, expanding at a speed of 7-9 km / s, strike the environment, compressing both the environment and the objects in it. The layer of the medium adjacent to the charge (for example, air) is instantly compressed. In an effort to expand, this compressed layer intensively compresses the next layer, and so on. This process is distributed in an elastic medium in the form of the so-called SHOCK WAVE.

The boundary separating the last compressed layer from the ordinary medium is called the shock front. At the front of the shock wave there is a sharp increase in pressure. At the initial moment of formation of the shock wave, the pressure on its front reaches the 800-900 atmospheres. When the shock wave breaks away from the detonation products that lose their ability to expand, it continues its independent propagation throughout the medium. Usually, separation occurs at a distance 10-12 of reduced charge radii [7].

The high-explosive effect of charge on a person is provided by pressure in the front of the shock wave and specific impulse. The specific impulse is equal to the amount of motion that a shock wave carries in itself, referred to a unit area of ​​the wave front. The human body for a short time of action of the shock wave is affected by pressure in its front and receives an impulse of movement, which leads to contusions, damage to the external integuments, internal organs and skeleton [8].

The mechanism of formation of a shock wave when explosive charge is detonated on surfaces is different in that, in addition to the main shock wave, a shock wave reflected from the surface is formed, which is combined with the main one. In this case, the pressure in the combined front of the shock wave in some cases almost doubles. For example, in case of a blast on a steel surface, the pressure at the front of the shock wave will be 1,8-1,9 compared to the detonation of the same charge in air [9]. This effect occurs when the detonation of shaped charges of anti-tank weapons on the armor of tanks and other equipment.

Fig. 4. An example of a zone of destruction by the high-explosive effect of a cumulative ammunition with a reduced mass of 2 kg when it hits the center of the right side projection of the tower. The red color shows the zone of lethal damage, the yellow color indicates the zone of traumatic injury. The calculation was carried out according to the generally accepted method [11] (without taking into account the effects of the flow of a shock wave into the openings of the hatches)

Fig. 5. The interaction of the shock wave front with a dummy in a helmet is shown when 1,5 explodes kg of the C4 charge at a distance of three meters. Red color indicates overpressure zones above 3,5 atmospheres. Source: NRL's Laboratory for Computational Physics and Fluid Dynamics

Due to the small dimensions of tanks and other armored objects, as well as the detonation of shaped charges on the surface of the armor, the high-explosive effect on the crew in the case of OPEN DOORS of the machine is provided with relatively small charges of cumulative ammunition. For example, if the tank's turret gets into the center of the onboard projection, the shock wave path from the detonation point to the hatch opening will be about a meter, if it hits the frontal part of the turret less than 2 m, and in the rear part - less than a meter. In the event of a cumulative jet hitting the elements of dynamic protection, secondary detonation and shock waves arise that can cause additional damage to the crew through the openings of the open hatches.

Fig. 6. The striking effect of the cumulative RPG RPN "Panzerfaust" 3-IT600 in a multipurpose version when firing at buildings (structures). Source: Dynamit Nobel GmbH

Fig. 7. МХNUMX BTR, destroyed by the hit Hellfire ATGM

The pressure at the shock wave front at local points can both decrease and increase when interacting with various objects. The interaction of a shock wave even with small objects, for example, with a human head in a helmet, leads to multiple local pressure changes [12]. Usually such a phenomenon is observed when there are obstacles in the path of the shock wave and penetration (as they say - “flowing”) of the shock wave into objects through open apertures.

Thus, the theory does not confirm the hypothesis of the destructive effect of the overpressure of the cumulative ammunition inside the tank. The shock wave of the cumulative ammunition is formed by the explosion of the explosive charge and can penetrate into the tank only through the holes in the hatches. Therefore, hatches SHOULD BE KEPT CLOSED. Whoever does not do so risks losing a strong concussion, or even die from a high-explosive action when the shaped charge is detonated.

Under what circumstances is a dangerous increase in pressure inside closed objects possible? Only in those cases when the cumulative and explosive action of the explosive charge in the barrier makes a hole that is sufficient to allow the explosion products to flow and create a shock wave inside. A synergistic effect is achieved by a combination of a cumulative jet and a high-explosive charge effect on small-arm and fragile barriers, which leads to structural destruction of the material, ensuring that the explosion products flow over the barrier. For example, the ammunition of the German Panzerfaust 3-IT600 grenade launcher in a multi-purpose version when the reinforced concrete wall is broken through creates an overpressure 2-3 bar indoors.

Heavy anti-tank guided missiles (such as 9М120, Hellfire) can destroy not only the crew, but also partially or completely destroy the vehicles, if they hit the light-class BBM with anti-bullet protection. On the other hand, the impact of the majority of wearable PTS on the BBM is not so sad - here the usual effect of the zabroniy action of the cumulative jet is observed, and the crew does not suffer from overpressure.

PRACTICE

Fig. 8. Three hits cumulative RPG shots in the BMP. Despite the dense grouping of holes, no breaks are observed. Source: [13]

It was necessary to shoot 115-mm and 125-mm tank guns with a cumulative projectile, from an RPG-7 cumulative grenade for various purposes, including a stone-concrete pillbox, a self-propelled installation of the IMS-152 and an armored personnel carrier BTR-152. An old armored personnel carrier, full of holes like a sieve, was destroyed by the high-explosive action of the projectile, in other cases no alleged “crushing action of the shock wave” inside the targets was detected. Several times inspected the wrecked tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, mostly struck from the RPG and LNG. If there is no detonation of fuel or ammunition, the impact of the shock wave is also unnoticeable. In addition, there were no concussions in surviving crews whose cars were hit by an RPG. Splinters were injured, deep burns with metal splashes, but there were no contusions from excessive pressure.

Numerous testimonies and facts of the campaign period in the Chechen Republic about the defeat of tanks, armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles with cumulative ammunition RPG and ATGM did not reveal the effect of overpressure: all cases of death, wounds and contusions of crews are explained either by the defeat of the cumulative jet and fragments of armor, or in the case of volume. 13].

There are official documents describing the nature of damage to tanks and crews by cumulative ammunition: “T-72B1 ... tank was manufactured by Uralvagonzavod (Nizhny Tagil) in December 1985. Participated in actions to restore constitutional order in the Czech Republic in 1996 and received combat damage that led to the death of the tank commander ... When inspecting the object, the experts revealed 8 combat damage. Of them:
• on the hull - 5 damage (3 hit by a cumulative grenade into the board sections protected by DZ, 1 hit by a cumulative grenade into the rubber-fabric screen not protected by DZ, 1 hit by a fragmentation grenade on the feeding sheet);
• on the tower - 3 damage (by 1 hit by a cumulative grenade in the front, side and rear parts of the tower).

The bombardment of the tank was conducted by cumulative grenades from RPG-7 type hand grenade launchers (armor penetration rate up to 650 mm) or RPG-26 “Fly” (armor penetration capacity up to 450 mm) and fragmentation grenades like VOG-17M from subgun grenade launchers or AG-WP-X-AMN-17 type RPG-3 RPG-14 RPG-XNUMX mm). Analysis of the nature of the lesions and their relative position with a rather high degree of probability allows us to conclude that at the time of the start of the bombardment of the tank the turret and gun were in the “traveling” position, the “Rock” anti-aircraft installation was turned back and the commander’s manhole cover was ajar or open completely. The latter could have led to the defeat of the tank commander by the products of an explosion of a cumulative grenade and a DZ when it hit the right side of the tower without breaking through the armor. After the damage received, the car retained the ability to move under its own power ... The vehicle body, the chassis components, the engine-transmission unit, the ammunition and internal fuel tanks, in general, the equipment of the body remained operable. Despite the penetration of the tower’s armor and some damage to the AXNUMX and STV elements, there was no fire inside the machine, the possibility of manual fire was maintained, and the driver and gunner remained alive (highlighted by the author) ”[XNUMX].

EXPERIMENT

Fig. 9. The severity of damage factors cumulative ammunition

Finally - the last nail in the coffin of the myth under discussion. Irrefutable facts obtained experimentally.

The defense research service of the Danish Armed Forces tested the effectiveness of cumulative submunitions for 155-mm shells, selecting the “Centurion” tank as an object. The Danes used the static test method, placing submunitions on the turret and the machine body at various angles. Inside the car, on the crew seats in the habitable compartment, and throughout the tank, pressure sensors, temperature, acceleration sensors were placed. In the process of research on the tank, 32 exploded submunitions. The power of cumulative ammunition was such that the cumulative jet often penetrated the tank from top to bottom, and even left a funnel in the ground under the bottom. At the same time, the sensors installed in the tank DO NOT FIXED THE PRESSURE AND TEMPERATURE INCREASE [15].

In 2008, at the 24 International Ballistics Symposium, Dr. Manfred Held from the Defense and Defense Systems Department of Defense of the EADS Aerospace Corporation presented the report “Behind Armor Effects at Shaped Charge Attacks” [16]. The report summarizes the results of the latest experiments, using modern measuring tools and techniques to study the damaging factors of cumulative munitions. It makes no sense to give hundreds of numbers obtained during the experiments. A general picture of the cumulative ammunition shown in the final figure from the report is enough. The effect of overpressure (Blast) of interest to us is marked as SUBJECTIVE (according to the national classification - zero degree of lesion, see table 1). That, in fact, was not subject to doubt in the circles of specialists. But the cumulative jet itself (Residual Jet Material) and splinters (Spalls) pose a serious danger. The average degree of danger of the high-explosive effect of the ammunition from the outside of the armor was also noted, which once again underlines the harmfulness of the myth under discussion.

FINAL DEFINITION

If the cumulative jet and fragments of armor do not hit people and fire / explosive equipment of the tank, then the crew survives safely: provided they are inside armored vehicles and closed hatches!

---

[1] See Artillery Course, Book 5. Ammunition "// M .: Voenizdat, 1949, pp. 37.
[2] See Reactive Armor, Travis Hagan // Explosives Engineering MNGN 498; March 18, 2002.
[3] Cumulative ammunition was widely used in practice during the Second World War and in the post-war period, up to the present.
[4] See “Domestic anti-tank grenade launcher complexes”, Catch A.A. and others // M .: "Eastern Horizon".
[5] See. “Penetration of a cumulative jet into multilayer and metal-thermal materials”, Pashkeev I.Yu. // Chelyabinsk, SUSU.
[6] See “Metal Physics Research and Energy Distribution”, Pond R., Glass K. In the book: High-speed impact phenomena // M .: Mir, 1973.
[7] The reduced radius: the radius of a spherical charge whose mass is equal to the mass of the explosive charge.
[8] Primary damage from a high-explosive effect affects almost all organs and parts of the human body: the brain and spinal cord, hearing organs, the abdominal and thoracic cavities, and the vascular system. Often hemorrhages in the frontal and paranasal sinuses, ruptures of the tympanic membranes are often detected. The defeat of the vascular system is manifested in the form of stratification or rupture of the walls of blood vessels. (http://www.med-pravo.ru/SudMed/Dictionary/LetterVav.htm)
[9] See “Fundamentals of an Explosive Business,” B.A. Epov // M .: Military Publishing, 1974.
[10] The reduced mass of explosives: the mass of explosives in a blast in the air, creating pressure at the front of the shockwave of the explosion, similar to the blast of a charge on a steel surface.
[11] See “Uniform Safety Rules for Blasting”, PB 13-407-01 // M .: NPO OBT, 2002.
[12] See “Blast-Induced Pressure Fields for the Non-Lethal Threats” by David Mott et al. // 61st Annual Meeting of the APS Division of Fluid Dynamics, 2008.
[13] See “Tanks in the battles for the Terrible. Part of 1 ”, Vladislav Belogrud //“ Frontal Illustration ”, M .:“ KM Strategy ”, 2008. “Tanks in the battles for Grozny. Part of 2 ”, Vladislav Belogrud //“ Frontal Illustration ”, M .:“ KM Strategy ”, 2008.
[14] “Report on the new developments of protection devices of the BTVT models”, military unit 68054, 1999.
[15] http://www.danskpanser.dk/Artikler/Destruerede_kampvogne_for_skud_igen.htm
[16] http://www.netcomposites.com/netcommerce_features.asp?1682

Comments

[Prometey]

Thank you, an informative article for laymen like me. I would like to ask the experts - can a modern tank (for example, T-72) really be destroyed from a grenade launcher with a shot in the forehead? In the film "Purgatory" (yes, I understand fictional fiction), a T-80 tank is shot by grenade launchers almost point-blank, but no ammunition detonation or fire inside occurs. The tank commander dies, his legs and arm are torn off, but the mechanic survives. Is this real in reality?

[Samovar]

Quote: Prometey

can a modern tank (for example, the T-72) be destroyed from a grenade launcher by a shot in the forehead?

Not a specialist, but I will answer. Any tank (including T-72 and T-80) can be destroyed by a shot in the forehead. It all depends on the type of RPG and the place of hit, well, the skill of the shooter, where would you go without him. And about the T-18, I read one article about Grozny, it talked about a tank that had survived 1 (!) Hits from an RPG and XNUMX detonation on a land mine.

[Samovar]

By the way, a link to the article http://btvt.narod.ru/2/tanks_in_grozny.htm

[grizzlir]

It’s practically not realistic in the forehead, but each tank, even in the frontal projection, has zones that, if a cumulative charge does not penetrate, then disable the tank.
As for the film, this is more of a director’s fiction. In the first I don’t know of cases where they went into battle with an incomplete crew, and secondly, people live in seconds with such injuries. Yes, and the mechanic could hardly survive. Another very nasty factor when breaking through the cumulative armor jet, this is instantly increased gas contamination. Ventilation can not cope with this. In the film there were multiple penetrations of armor. Mechan could breathe only in the IP.

[Samovar]

On the forehead it’s practically not realistic.

And if we let the COP break through the frontal armor and reach the BC. After all, can it be so?

[grizzlir]

Quote: Samovar

And if we let the COP break through the frontal armor and reach the BC. After all, can it be so?

Not always the defeat of the BC leads to an explosion. The ammunition stack in the automatic loader is generally located just below the track rollers. There is still non-mechanized styling, but we did not load it. Here it can cause the detonation of the tank. Yes and even manually charge the tank during battle, better to get out of the battle to reload.

[Samovar]

Quote: grizzlir

The defeat of the CD does not always lead to an explosion.

Of course, but the point is that not a single tank is safe from such cases (which is where I actually started).

[dixicon]

And what is the chance to hit the fuel tank? Is it located along the sides?

[grizzlir]

Quote: dixicon

And what is the chance to hit the fuel tank? Is it located along the sides?

It’s easy to hit a fuel tank. But this is not critical for a tank. Onboard tanks are in some ways even a defense.

[Samovar]

Quote: dixicon

And what is the chance to hit the fuel tank?

It depends on what. There are external ones on the fenders and internal ones. Of course, it’s more difficult to hit the internal one, but the consequences will be harder.

[neri73-r]

During the battle, the additional (external) tanks must be dry !!! They are used only for movement outside the battle! I understand that we live in our country, everything can happen, and they go into battle without DZ.

[Kars]

Quote: neri73-r

During the battle, the additional (external) tanks must be dry !!!

Mine can be right from the march, or even on the march.

[Filin]

This is a fragment of the video where the T-72 tank from another tank was fired.
The triggered DZ and shell fragments turned the tank in the fenders and the fuel ignited.
All this was done in front of journalists.
After the tank was extinguished, it drove under its own power to reporters. They were all in shock.
This demonstration was carried out after the media began to write that the T_? "Tank does not meet any of the requirements of modern combat.

[Samovar]

Quote: FILIN

where the T-72 tank was fired from another tank.

This is the T-80UD.

[flanker7]

Tell me, grizzlir, how many such "zones" are there in the frontal projection of a modern MBT, upon hitting which the tank will be removed from the side?
Well, let it be a driver’s sightseeing devices, and even they can be interchanged (there are 80 of them on t3) ...

[Kars]

Quote: flanker7

frontal projection of modern MBT

NLD of most modern tanks breaks through - and this is minus the fur of the waters,

[flanker7]

Kars, I agree with you, but: NLD is not the most "hit" part of the frontal projection: it is low, all sorts of screens hang, well, the folds of the relief ... I mean that you won't specifically aim at the NLD of a moving tank .. Here is a shoulder strap bashi or in a mask is more likely ...

[Beck]

This is not the first time I've been reading. It is necessary to aim under the shoulder straps of the tower, it is necessary to aim here or here.

That the SLA today is so perfect that it allows you to aim at will and the main thing is to get where you aim.

In my time, with the "Horizon" stabilizer, just to get into the silhouette of the tank. And there was no talk to choose - under the shoulder strap or in the gunner's sight.

Explain.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Beck

This is not the first time I've been reading. It is necessary to aim under the shoulder straps of the tower, it is necessary to aim here or here.

We are talking about close-range battles, and mainly infantry battles with an RPG / ATGM against a tank, it is really possible there to aim both under the tower and in the NLD, because the infantry is often dug in and disguised as an ambush. In the city, again, our “Khrushchevs” and other similar buildings with small windows near the ground are very convenient, there are still destroyed objects such as cars and buildings, but the essence is the same.

[grizzlir]

Quote: flanker7

Tell me, grizzlir, how many such "zones" are there in the frontal projection of a modern MBT, upon hitting which the tank will be removed from the side?

Tell me which weapon and which tank, I’ll try to answer.

[flanker7]

120mm main barrel gun Rheinmetall Leo2 and according to T80BV

[Mairos]

It is generally not worth shooting at point-blank range from an RPG, since a grenade must be flown 15-20 meters before the fuse comes into combat position. You can simply get the effect of the collision of aluminum bars with the tank, without any combat effect.
And yet - "Fly" is RPG-18, and RPG-26 is "Aglen".
In general, the article is excellent. )) +++

[grizzlir]

A fairly competent article. In the 131st OMB during the assault on Grozny, there was a case when an BTR80 received 7 (SEVEN) hits from an RPG into the airborne squad. The driver received burns and shrapnel wounds, a pea jacket burned down but he survived and left the armored personnel carrier only after being hit by an MTO .
But in general, I would not want to be in the car at the time of breaking through. They say the sensations are not pleasant. I had just one actuation of the far right DZ on the tower near the FCT and breaking from the right of the fourth fuel tank.

[Leisure]

An interesting article, the author is well prepared.
Here, as they say, until it flies to you, and you don’t know what will happen, but then in theory they have laid it out.

[Uruska]

Theory is good. But what about the fact that when hitting a target tank with a cumulative shot from the "Fly", personally observed with what force the open hatches were thrown back? And they want to convince me that there is almost no pressure ...

[grizzlir]

Quote: Uruska

But what about the fact that when hitting a target tank with a cumulative shot from the "Fly", personally observed with what force the open hatches were thrown back?

They lean back, theory by theory, but in practice, increased pressure is really created. Those who survived a cumulative defeat in a tank say that it seems like they crash into a concrete wall from the run. He said that during the war, after one penetration by the Faustpatron, with the hatches closed, the hatches were opened by welding and they got what was left of the crew. But with a cumulative penetration by an artillery shell, the crew practically did not have high pressure tradal.Navernoe all a matter of ammunition.

[Beck]

Confused by some. As far as I know.

To increase the overpressure in the tank, there is a special warhead. I don't know how massive it is. Plastic explosive in a fragile shell. When it hits the armor, the fragile shell scatters, the plastic explosive seems to spread over the armor and at a certain moment explodes. The armor of the tank starts to vibrate, very often. An example of vibration is a ruler clamped at one end, such as this. Large fragments are breaking off from the inner side of the armor. It is from this vibration that a sharp excess pressure is created in the tank. "Death on inspiration" The increased pressure ruptures the alveoli of the lungs and the lung tissue itself.

[grizzlir]

Quote: Beck

Large fragments break off from the inside of the armor. It is from this vibration that a sharp overpressure is created in the tank.

Beck, the striking factors of such a charge are not overpressure, but fragments of its own armor. Such charges were bet on the post-war years, in my opinion the British actively tested them. With the advent of multilayer armor, the armored effect of such shells became zero. Even the first samples of the STEEL + Hardened sandwich TEXTOLES + STEEL, did not allow this type of shell to hit the car. And now the armor of the tank in the context is much more interesting. If KARS appears, it will tell in more detail.

[Beck]

Quote: grizzlir

.And now, the sectional armor of a tank is much more interesting.

I did not speak about now. I talked about the fact that to obtain excess pressure, not explosive charges are needed, but plastic explosives. And as commanders told me, it was they who caused excessive pressure, along with the formation of large fragments. Which basically do not hit, but fall off. Not knowing whether such charges are used now, I made a footnote in the first comment about my ignorance of the mass production. And undoubtedly plastic explosive has an effect only with homogeneous armor. And on the tank on which I served as commander, the circle was homogeneous. For you, Grisil my tank is probably antiquity with a web. I served on the T-54.

[grizzlir]

Quote: Beck

For you, Grisil my tank is probably antiquity with a web. I served on the T-54.

There is no antiquity, rather an outdated model for modern combined arms combat. And in order to drive the "partisans", it is enough to hang screens and DZ blocks on it. It is the T-55 (a descendant of the T-54) that has established itself well in Afghanistan, and the armament of Afghan and Chechen spirits in many respects. Only all these tanks have long been allowed to melt.

[Kars]

Quote: grizzlir

Only all of these tanks have long been allowed to remelt

They are still enough in the vastness of the planet.

[grizzlir]

Quote: Kars

They are still enough in the vastness of the planet.

I mean in Russia. On the world’s expanses T-34-85 still knock with trucks, and I suspect 54ki and 55ki in some countries of Africa are the main battle tanks.

[Kars]

Quote: grizzlir

I mean in Russia

In Russia, they also exist, on storage bases. T-62 in general in the 08.08.08 war. participated.
We have them pieces 100.

[grizzlir]

Sixty-second in Chechen showed themselves well. Yuri Dmitrievich regiment was all sixty-second.
As for the T-54, T-55, there was information that the last of these tanks was disposed of in 2010. The last ones were taken from the Kuril Islands for disposal. By the way, I met a tractor based on the T-55 in the Tula region of the farmer. The tower was removed, he bought it in which then a collective farm.

[Uruska]

What kind of educational exhibit is this? Placed, that would not be boring.

[M. Peter]

Disbanded his regiment.
And by the way, the T-62 is no longer in the army.

[provergatel]

So in Syria now, along with the T-62, the T-55 is one of the main tanks. Not from a good life, of course. The T-72s were seriously damaged there during the first years of the war.

Now there is the main fleet of tanks: T-55, T-62, T-62M (we already started to import it with the Syrian express), T-72 a few surviving and restored (well, from us, for sure, some outdated obsolete modifications). Well, fragmented T-90. They try hard not to substitute them in battles and, in general, they don’t give them special Arabs. More like running and testing in combat conditions.

[kopar]

In August 2008, the Vostok battalion entered Georgia, was it not on T-55? Judging by the reports, they were there. Or am I confusing something?

[Kars]

Quote: Beck

We need not cumulative charges, but plastic explosives

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0
%BD%D0%BE-%D1%84%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1
%80%D1%8F%D0%B4

But there is no overpressure on the crew unless a large gap is created.

I argued a lot of times on the topic of the article, finally there is a good article.

[Beck]

Quote: Kars

But there is no overpressure on the crew unless a large gap is created.

Thanks for the links. But now there is no time, I'll see later. Now explain in two words.

Is there a factor of excess pressure from the cumulative charge or not. And whether it depends on the caliber, and therefore on the mass of the cumulative projectile.

In view of the fact that many years have passed since the moment of my service, I did not show up here to argue, but to find out.

[Kars]

Quote: Beck

Is there a factor of excess pressure from the cumulative charge or not

for those who are not in the tank, for those who are near the tank.
And naturally depends on the mass of centuries.

[bask]

Kars article ,, old ,, From the Bulletin of Mordovia. Of all that has been said. It is necessary to create armor for the tank from new composite alloys. In which there is a high impact vavkos. And materials in which high specific hardness .. ,,, Combined synthetic alloys. Based on ( (oxides, carbides, borides, nitrides, and so on ...)))) These developments were carried out in the 70s. Partially implemented in Afghanistan. When creating body armor based on ((carbides)) Plus anti-fragmentation lining. 1 n Institute with Leningrad ... I'm not sure that all these developments will be ut present in armor ,, ,, Armata

[Kars]

Quote: bask

article ,, old ,, From the messenger of Mordovia

I have never come across before, but I would remember.
It will be easier to reference to it than to explosion physics.

[PLO]

They lean back, theory by theory but in practice, increased pressure is really created. Those who survived a cumulative defeat in a tank say that it seems like they crash into a concrete wall from the whole run. And no one canceled the death from excessive pressure inside the tank.True, I have not seen thisand the grandfather the tankman said that after one penetration by the Faustpatron, when the hatches were closed, the hatches were opened by welding and they got what was left of the crew, but when the artillery shell penetrated it cumulatively, the crew practically did not suffer from increased pressure.

did not see, but about death from excessive pressure you say
I saw some newsreel of the first Chechen one, where the self-propelled gun commander (Carnations like) cursed that his gunner had been killed with an RPG grenade, the cumulative jet pierced his head, but neither the charging commander nor the ones who were sitting nearby were injured


but about WWII I read somewhere that this is due to the use of phosphorus in ammunition

[Beck]

Quote: olp

did not see, but about death from excessive pressure you say

I confirm your words Olr. In 1969, I saw the action of a cumulative grenade from a Chinese RPG (Soviet). The jet passed through the port side, came out behind the head of the mechanic and set fire to the first-aid kit hanging there. A smoking first-aid kit was thrown out, but none of the crew suffered from excessive pressure.

[NKVD]

You look at the photos of tanks hit by Faustpatrons. There are such good holes, in addition to a cumulative jet, a high-explosive effect is surely added. However, at that time the thickness of the armor and the armor steel itself was not the same as it was now and it was single-layer

[Karlsonn]

Quote: NKVD

You look at the photos of tanks hit by Faustpatrons. There are such good holes

I have never seen - a hole from the Faustpatron , throw a link where you can see.

[Antistaks]

THE FAUST CALIBER AND MASS EXTRAORDINARY. A FOCAL DISTANCE IS NOT ABLE. THEREFORE THE JET IS GIVEN THICK, AS A RESULT OF THE HOLES A LARGE AND DIGGER EFFECT IS PRESENT. A MODERN AMMUNITION GIVES A TINY (BUT VERY LONG) JET.

[Karlsonn]

Antistaks , I saw only a photo where the place is the defeat of the armor by the Faustpatron - a small hole in the armor, I have never seen holes and breaks in the armor from the Faustpatron, so I became interested.

[Bosk]

The larger the armor, the smaller the hole., Say RPG-oh babakhni on board the tank and the armored personnel carrier ... also the holes in diameter do not match.

[Alex 241]

Occurs due to a focus shift of the cumulative jet.

[morning]

grizzlir,
all right faust high explosive cartridge.

[Beck]

Quote: morning

all right faust high explosive cartridge.

Explain. Faust cartridge is one of the first cumulative charges. And it is only cumulative. How can it be a high-explosive action?

Landing mine is explosive. Explosion. Shock wave And what will fall under this wave. How can a cumulative shell be a high-explosive action?

[Footmansur86]

Any munition containing explosives (explosive) has a certain explosive effect, depending on the mass of the explosives and its brisance (determines the crushing effect of the explosives, the higher the brisance, the more powerful the explosives)

[Beck]

Quote: Footmansur86

Any ammunition containing explosives (explosive) has a certain high-explosive effect,

Any one is any thing. But there is a high-explosive fragmentation projectile, a high-explosive projectile, an armor-piercing projectile, a sub-caliber projectile, and a cumulative projectile.

And, what is a high-explosive cumulative shell?

[Footmansur86]

There is no such projectile; there is a cumulative-fragmentation projectile.
what do you mean

But there is a high-explosive fragmentation shell, a high-explosive shell, an armor-piercing shell, a sub-caliber shell, and a cumulative shell.

Sub-caliber projectile is one of the types of armor-piercing shells.
Too lazy to list everything here catch copy-paste from wiki
Concrete Slaughter | High-explosive armor-piercing | Armor-piercing | Armor-piercing incendiary | Incendiary | Tracer | Cumulative | Cumulative Shrapnel | Shrapnel | Kartech | Shrapnel | High-explosive fragmentation | High explosive | Thermobaric | Chemical | Nuclear | Propaganda | Smoke Lighting | Sighting and target designation

[Antistaks]

Any shell containing explosive fragmentation explosive. And if the godfather also has a notch, then shrapnel - high explosive - cumulative. Just shells are called by their PREVAILING action. The fragmentation explosive is smaller and the shell is thicker, while the high explosive is vice versa.

[Antistaks]

DON'T MIX FUGASITY WITH BRIZANCE. The explosiveness depends on the amount (volume) of emitted gases. And brisance from the speed of their allocation.

[Bosk]

Brisantiness ...?, But can trotility or trini and so on. etc.

[Bosk]

the cumulative effect was known ... even during the time of World War I., even earlier.

[Antistaks]

Not right - study further.

[Karlsonn]

Efficiency (explosiveness) of explosives - the ability of products to do work when expanded, depends on the potential energy of explosives and increases with increasing specific heat of the explosion, volume and heat capacity of gaseous detonation products.

[Antistaks]

Efficiency is good, but there is also the speed of the detonation wave, on which brisance depends. At a low detonation speed but a sufficiently high explosiveness (for example nitrate + diesel fuel), the bomb shell simply breaks into two parts, and at a high detonation speed (and, accordingly, high pressure in wave front) the shell can turn (if it is fragile enough) into dust.
Keep learning !!!!!!!!
And if you put cons, then justify.

[8 company]

From my practice, there was a case when in Afghanistan spirits hit an RPG grenade in the forehead of our BTR-70. He walked along the highway in winter with closed hatches. The shooter died, the rest was chopped off by fragments. No one complained about the concussion, which, apparently, confirms the correctness of the author of the article. Interestingly, the wounded driver managed to launch one of the stalled engines and leave. This saved the life of the crew.

[grizzlir]

Quote: Company 8

From my practice, there was a case when in Afghanistan spirits hit an RPG grenade in the forehead of our BTR-70. .

All this is so, I wrote above that an APC can withstand several hits from an RPG. It all depends on the amount of space reserved and the tightness of the hull at the time of hit.

Quote: Company 8

BTR-70. He walked along the highway in winter with closed hatches.

I don’t know how it was, but daytime armored personnel carriers in open-air conditions go with open inspection hatches. An exception can only be at night when controlling the concrete via TVNE

[Footmansur86]

At last!!!! I have already been tortured to argue with experts !!!!! All of them insist on burning pressure, etc.
The most interesting thing is that these myths were firmly established among the soldiers in the army, and the commanders also do not hesitate to tell such nonsense on military-technical information.

PS No less interesting is the topic of the destruction of a cumulative jet, I like the method using pulsed current, although this is difficult to do on modern armored objects.

[Igarr]

I don’t understand
why from time to time the same topics arise.
About six months ago, this topic was.
Pressure, burning ...
Then the "vacuum" bomb creates a vacuum. And kills - with emptiness.
A volume explosion bomb creates a volume explosion. And destroys - by volume.
Repetition, of course, is the mother of learning. But, it’s frustrating ... how long can you learn? It's time to retire.

[Bosk]

This topic has been present since the 44th year.

[sania1304]

Powerful article. The author is evidently pent.

[viruskvartirus]

After the explosion of the detonator capsule, located on the opposite side of the charge with respect to the recess, a detonation wave arises, which moves along the axis of the charge.

The wave, propagating to the side generators of the cone of the cladding, collapses its walls towards each other, and as a result of the collision of the walls of the cladding, the pressure in its material increases sharply. The pressure of the explosion products, reaching the order of 1010 Pa (105 kgf / cm²), significantly exceeds the yield strength of the metal, so the movement of the metal lining under the action of the explosion products is similar to the flow of liquid, but due to plastic deformation rather than melting.

Like a liquid, the cladding metal forms two zones - a large mass (of the order of 70-90%), a slowly moving “pest” and a smaller mass (of the order of 10-30%), a thin (of the order of the cladding thickness) hypersonic metal jet moving along the axis of charge symmetry , the speed of which depends on the detonation velocity of the explosive and the funnel geometry. When using funnels with small angles at the apex, it is possible to obtain extremely high speeds, but this also increases the requirements for the quality of the cladding production, since the likelihood of premature destruction of the jet increases. In modern ammunition, funnels with complex geometry (exponential, step, etc.) with angles in the range of 30-60 degrees are used; the speed of the cumulative jet in this case reaches 10 km / s.

Since when a cumulative jet meets armor, very high pressures develop, which are one or two orders of magnitude higher than the tensile strength of metals, the jet interacts with the armor in accordance with the laws of hydrodynamics, i.e., when they collide, they behave like ideal fluids. The strength of armor in its traditional sense in this case practically does not play a role, and the density and thickness of the reservation come first.

The theoretical penetration of cumulative shells is proportional to the length of the cumulative stream and the square root of the ratio of the density of the lining of the funnel to the density of the armor. The practical depth of penetration of the cumulative jet into the monolithic armor of existing ammunition varies from 1,5 to 4 calibers.

When the conical shell collapses, the speeds of the individual parts of the jet turn out to be different, and the jet stretches in flight. Therefore, a small increase in the gap between the charge and the target increases the penetration depth due to elongation of the jet. However, at significant distances between the charge and the target, the continuity of the jet is violated, which reduces the armor-piercing effect. The greatest effect is achieved at the so-called "focal length"; To maintain this distance, various types of tips of appropriate length are used.

The use of a charge with a cumulative recess without a metal lining reduces the cumulative effect, since instead of a metal stream, a jet of gaseous explosion products acts; however, significantly stronger armor action.

[Beck]

Quote: viruskvartirus

After the detonator capsule explodes,

Short, clear, intelligible. Bravo.

[alex86]

A small comment: the yield strength of steel is much higher than 105 kg / cm2 (the design resistance of St3kp steel (the most lousy, almost no longer produced) 2100 kg / cm2), this is not in the order of tediousness, it is either just a comma not there or a dimension in kg / mm2 .
In addition, one of the factors of high armor penetration is the movement of the jet at a speed exceeding the speed of sound in the obstacle, i.e. the subsequent layers "do not have time to learn" about the movement of the jet and affect the process. (This also determines a significant decrease in armor penetration by the presence of (conditionally) "loose", porous, inhomogeneous inclusions in the barrier.) This creates conditions under which the process is described as interaction of liquids. This is what dictates the use of barriers made of high-density materials (uranium in Abrams), since the most common facing material (copper) has approximately half the density (for memory), and when it meets a denser barrier, the jet "splashes".

[viruskvartirus]

In modern cumulative charges, gases from the combustion of explosives practically do not enter the affected machine: they expand mainly in the direction perpendicular to the axis of the charge.

The legend of overpressure from the COP appeared during WWII and is still alive. Veterans of Afghanistan and Chechnya explain the death from a hit by the cops precisely because of excessive pressure. A.R. Zayets. Almanac "Military Commentator", 2003. No.1 (5) Armored vehicles in Afghanistan (1979-1989):
The relatively thin armor of the sides, roof and stern easily penetrated the RPG-7 grenade. Having armor penetration of the order of 400 ... 500 mm, the grenade launcher could hit a tank of the T-55 / 62 type and in the forehead. Despite the relatively weak armor action, a cumulative grenade, when hit in a tower, as a rule, killed one or more crew members, could disable weapons, and undermine the ammunition.
Getting into the engine compartment made the car an immovable target, and if fuel lines were encountered in the path of the cumulative jet, ignition occurred. The tank commander Sergeant V. Rusnak recalled: “It is very scary when a cumulative projectile hits the tank. "Burns through" the armor anywhere. If the hatches in the tower are open, then a huge pressure force throws people out of the tank ... ”
Of course, there were happy exceptions, for example, when 55 grenades from an RPG hit the T-7 tower, they all shot through the armor, but the crew remained alive, and the tank was combat-ready. Unfortunately, not everyone was so lucky: in 11 months of 1980, 16% of losses in tanks occurred from RPG fire.

“It should be mentioned, for the sake of justice, that the ISs practically did not burn. Having opened the hatches battened down in battle from the inside with a burner and pulling out the crew's corpses, in most cases the tank could be started and moved on. There was only a hole in the thick armor;

"(from the memoirs of the commander of the 11th guards ttp V. Mindlin" The last battle is the most difficult one ")" There is a car with tightly battened hatches, from it through the armor you can hear the screeching of a rotating umformer of the radio station. But the crew is silent ... Doesn't respond to knocks or radio. In the tower there is a small, a penny in diameter, melted hole - the little finger will not pass. And this is Faust, his work! "

“I also met memories where it was said that those killed in the tanks from Faust had no visible injuries on their bodies.

The radio is working, the powder charges are intact, the fuel is off, various mechanisms are not damaged, but the entire crew (five people) are dead. The tank is practically not damaged, change crew and fight on.
What effect from the COP could serve as the death of the crew without damaging the tank?
1. Shocked by the blast. It is unlikely that the crews of the tanks withstood hits and larger OFS.
2. Overpressure killed. In laboratory conditions, it is proved that this is impossible.
3. Flowing blast wave. It is unlikely that in the memories a hole in the little finger.
4. Fragments of the metal cladding lens KS. The death of five crew members?
5. Fragments of armor. The death of all five crew members and without damage to shells and mechanisms?
6. Toxic fumes from combustion. Why don't they die from this now? "

http://www.waronline.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1989&sid=1d41d6783f849b9c50e6090b
4384dccb

[Kars]

Quote: viruskvartirus

commander of the 11th Guards. ttp V. Mindlin "Last

In Marshal Konev's memory, the Tiger was with an 100 mm gun.
Memoirs were written mainly by workers.

[Uruska]

Probably like that!

[Bosk]

Bronvoe effect ... he and the disc effect.

[atesterev]

Not for nothing that the Yankees ride in closed armored vehicles ...
By the way, the article is not new, but very convincing. Our warriors need to release an appropriate film to train personnel in the proper use of materiel.

[grizzlir]

Quote: atesterev

Not for nothing that the Yankees ride in closed armored vehicles ...

Yes, but often with the doors removed.
I was really interested in this topic here. Once again I repeat that I did not see any defeat from overpressure during the Chechnya, but my grandfather said that it was because of the pressure that the crews of our tanks with closed hatches died when they were defeated by Faustpatrons. There was even an order to keep the hatches not on latches. memoirs of veterans. Who wants to be convinced of this, read the memoirs of tankers of http://iremember.ru/tankisti/blog.html WWII participants. I think you should not blame them for lies or ignorance.

[Samovar]

Quote: grizzlir

There was even an order to keep it not latched.

I thought this in order to make it easier to open when leaving the tank (especially if injured).

[grizzlir]

Quote: Samovar

I thought this in order to make it easier to open when leaving the tank (especially if injured).

It’s on the tanks of the first series, especially the T-34 with a hatch on half of the tower roof, you won’t just be able to open such a hatch when wounded. Later on, somewhere the command forbade opening the hatches, somewhere not, but at the end of the war, when losses from the Fausenians increased, hatches ajar.
This is not my opinion, the memories of veterans are all from the same site.
As for death from overpressure due to defeat by the Faustpatrons, it seems to me that the whole thing is in the overcharge. I could not find the mass of explosives in the Faust and the shell, but it looks solid.

[Mikhado]

Glory and honor to veterans, there is no market. This does not change the stories and myths. How. for example, with intent or not, they confused "tigers" and "fours". As told about "rubber pillboxes" in Finnish.

[viruskvartirus]

Ignorance))) the troops of the Red Army of the 44-45 period were the best army in the world, it traveled by skating rink across Europe, such distances and pace, they took the fortified areas, cities by storm, and the distance from the Vistula to the Oder, covered with battles for 16 days, is a distance exceeding 500 kilometers. The Western Allies did not stand nearby. So who is who, but they knew how to fight and knew what they were saying.

[Kars]

Quote: viruskvartirus

Vistula to Oder, traveled with battles in 16 days, a distance exceeding 500 kilometers. The Western Allies did not stand nearby. So who is who, and they knew how to fight and knew what they were saying

But the losses weren’t taken into account especially, and during the 4 of the month 1945 the Red Army lost the irrevocable 13 000 tanks and self-propelled guns.

[Beck]

And in one Berlin operation, within a month, 300 thousand fighters put. Although Konev proposed to put up a blockade and starve Berlin. What is the difference for Victory - a month later. Take Berlin is not Moscow to defend. There, near Moscow, of course you can’t stand the price.

[Mairos]

Yes, people were laid to sea. I think for the stupidity of the superiors - they wanted to report as soon as possible. In "Osvobozhdenie" it is well filmed - the regiment commander and the division commander are glad that the first floor of the Reichstag was taken, and the higher ones yell "Why so slowly ?!"
As in Chechnya in December, they decided to enter the city in columns .. the bosses are bad. When I heard about this, I just went nuts. It is necessary to have no brains or people do not give a damn consciously.

[Bosk]

But it would be nice to arrange Berlin ... a blockade,

[kopar]

It was necessary for them to arrange a blockade. Like they were with Leningrad. And when everyone died, enter and reveal the city so that there is no trace of it. Yes, and how many fighters were saved ...

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Kars

But the losses weren’t taken into account especially, and during the 4 of the month 1945 the Red Army lost the irrevocable 13 000 tanks and self-propelled guns.

On the other hand, delaying the same is not very good, because it gives the enemy a chance to prepare, calm down, and think out plans for counteraction.

[provergatel]

Absolutely right. At that moment there was a race between the USSR and the Allies. Hitler and the top of the Reich were ready to surrender Berlin to the Allies and conclude a separate peace. But for this, the Allied forces had to enter Berlin. And it was much closer to him from Normandy to stomp than to us from our borders across Europe.

[Mikhado]

It will be very clear to you because of the country of residence - there is a saying - in the elderberry garden, in Kiev - uncle. The undoubted victoriousness of the valiant RKKA does not in any way cancel the delusions of its individual, even heroic, representatives. The then kumas were many times weaker than the modern ones. and their pre-bronchial effect was less. But the psychological effect due to the novelty is great. I would more readily believe about three corpses in the BT or T-26 light-armored tanks, the Germans used the super-calibrated guns at the beginning of the war, and could have gotten into pre-war tins.

[Bosk]

It was from this ignorance of the Red Army that the Cold War began ,,,,, illuminated the current adversary in those distant times, chtol ... the entot, a distant oriental barbarian, appears to have some netok for one sixth of land ..... but a couple of three more wants .... and wants no current but also can !!!

[grizzlir]

Here's another topic, some kind of byak shoved almost everyone in the negative. People behave like henchmen, well, somewhere, well, somehow, but shit. Own self-conceit from this or that increases.

[kopar]

Clever Well, they can’t say anything, that’s dirty for a little ..... Zatsy ....

[EropMyxoMop]

So it is. But the appearance of a tandem cumulative-thermobaric charge almost guaranteed kills the crew with excessive pressure.

[Mikhado]

Link to the studio.
JUST thermobaric breaks through THIN armor - the effect is monstrous, yes. The tandem can be used to disable the remote sensing system over a larger area - maybe not. But "inside" - for relatively thick armor - the good old "pestle", splashes and fragments.

[viruskvartirus]

http://world.guns.ru/grenade/rus/rmg-r.html есть такое РМГ жуткая штука

[Kars]

Quote: viruskvartirus

is there a rmg a terrible thing

Well, it’s more likely against fortifications, in powerful armor it will not pierce a hole for the penetration of 105 mm thermobaric charge.

[viruskvartirus]

"rather against the fortifications" so it is, but imagine the effect of getting inside the technology of the thermobaric part and remember the story with the Abrams armor which was pierced by a hollow ball. http://www.anpnews.ru/yarosl/show.shtml@d_id=158796.html

[Kars]

Quote: viruskvartirus

punched a hollow ball

As for the ball, I don’t know. But in my collection of knocked-down abrams, it has no breakdowns from RPGs (I think the RMG precharge is not more powerful than RPG 7) with a diameter of several tens of millimeters.

[Antistaks]

You just don’t know (and Amanita issued military secrets). Facing the funnel using nano technology - grains of depleted uranium with a special coating. A jet of uranium breaks through the armor (the packaging is opened) and the uranium reacts with oxygen and everyone in the tank TERMOBARRATES.

[Kars]

Quote: Antistaks

uranium reacts with oxygen and everyone in the tank TEMPERATURE.

)))))))))))

[Bosk]

Thermobolic ammunition is an ammunition of volumetric explosion ...

[EropMyxoMop]

It is the `` inside '' not only of tanks but also of pillboxes and other fortifications. The cumulative makes a small hole through which the thermobar works.

[Mikhado]

Link to at least one article. They wrote to you in the text, they don’t have time to get into a small hole.

[Antistaks]

There is such a cartoon - last year's snow fell. There the man said - these fairy tales, these storytellers.

[EropMyxoMop]

I wrote somewhere that you need to shoot in the forehead of the tank? The RMG confidently hits the tank aboard. The wall also breaks through not destroying the fragments of the wall, namely the action of the thermobaric charge. I have no links.

[Kars]

Quote: EropMyxoMop

RMG confidently hits the tank on board

On board the standard MBT, the cumulative precharge of the RMG will leave a 4-6 mm hole, if at all able to penetrate it, since the sides are covered with anti-cumulative screens, on which additional DZ can be installed.

[Mikhado]

The maximum is in the stern, there are no screens, no thickness ... But. again, the crew will not be able to "surprise" anyway - it's far))) In fact, the ammunition is clearly not anti-tank, but if nothing else happens, go. In the end, even a modern MBT is full of vulnerabilities, even for the PTR of the 2nd world war.

[Antistaks]

The article is old, already in 2004 - according to our slaughterhouse. But since there are a lot of illiterates on the site, the article is certainly useful.
It is a pity that the tablet for two kg of explosives ends. And who doesn’t accidentally throw a formula for calculating the radius of damage with a high-explosive charge?

[crambol]

Dear Author! You are not from the Research Institute "Steel"? Painfully professionally written. Thank you, respected!

[Director]

Guys, the main thing is to carry shells only in AZ. and the ammunition should be empty and no detonation, because the road wheels still need to be pierced.

[Antistaks]

I found a photo for Yegor - Amanita. Here it is, cumulatively - thermobaric grenade launcher (with high explosive fragmentation and active shell)

[Antistaks]

Or I made a mistake and this grenade launcher in this photo.

[Alex 241]

Anyone surrendered to such a grenade launcher

[kopar]

Thank you for the competent article. Big "+" for this.

[lucidlook]

It would be very interesting to know what exactly and in what proportions the energy of the cumulative ammunition (and the jet in particular) is spent after the obstacle has been pierced. From the school course of physics, I know that energy does not appear from anywhere and does not disappear without a trace, which means that if a jet under a pressure of 10-15 t / cm2 overcomes an obstacle (for example, a board) and continues to move at a speed of several kilometers per second, then it had to do the job. What exactly is this job?

[azazello11]

Ahhhhhh !!!
Finally!!! Thank you, Comrade Colonel, for the material provided! I was already "tired of beating in ecstasy", explaining all of the above, only in my own words and in a more simplified way (I was the navigator of the NK and the art training, naturally, in a reduced volume and in relation to ship AU). With your permission, I will drag the article to myself in LJ.

[aiy_aiy]

Thank you, I have been looking for such information for a long time.

[misti1973]

It means that tankers are kicked out by excess pressure. Yes, I have never heard such combing :) Folklore is a great thing! Judging by the fact that the ammo rack catches fire in 50% of cases, it’s hot there :) you can see how someone jumps out. Sometimes one, sometimes two (the driver usually does not jump out). Sometimes they burn, but still they run.

[LuidmilaN1956]

Thanks to the author for the article! Many who still believe in myths would do well to read it.