Military Review

What else to expect? What kind of armored vehicles can NATO send to Ukraine

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What else to expect? What kind of armored vehicles can NATO send to Ukraine
The potential for the appearance of the French AMX-10RC in Ukraine is definitely not zero. Source: wikipedia.org



Cold War Legacy


In the matter of supplying ground equipment to the Kyiv regime, the West shows a certain duality. Along with quite modern equipment, for example, the HIMARS MLRS, PzH 2000 self-propelled guns and the recently announced M1117 armored personnel carriers, Bandera also receive outdated weapon. Which, by the way, is the majority. Such as the French armored personnel carrier VAB, leading its history since 1976, together with a slightly younger classmate Sisu XA-180 from Finland. Or the famous aluminum M113 with a sixty-year history of production. The reasons for this “disrespect” for the Zelensky regime are quite prosaic. Here is the desire to quickly dispose of junk, and the usual European-American greed, and the fear of an uncontrolled escalation of the conflict. In addition, for the latest weapons, the militants of the regime will have to be trained separately - for the relatively small HIMARS and PzH 2000, this is not so burdensome so far. The principle of reasonable sufficiency works surprisingly well for Western suppliers. New equipment is advertised on the battlefields, guaranteeing new orders to industrialists, and the old equipment is being destroyed, again requiring replacement at the expense of Western taxpayers. War, as always, turns into a profitable business.

In emotional calculations after the withdrawal of Russian troops from Kherson, one and a half hundred old Soviet tanks, two hundred armored personnel carriers and fifty MLRS with cannon artillery. Technique Bandera is chronically lacking. This is recorded both by the Ukrainian observers themselves and by video chronicles, in which, along with armored personnel carriers, civilian trucks are engaged in the transportation of personnel. That is why the supply of armored vehicles for the Armed Forces of Ukraine is unlikely to stop in the near future. We are not talking about expansion, since the artificial prolongation of the conflict is among the priority interests of the United States, the main sponsor of the Zelensky regime.

The peculiarities of the conflict dictate certain requirements in the military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Firstly, Ukraine now is the realm of artillery of various calibers. Therefore, it can fly from anywhere, even a few tens of kilometers from the line of contact. Armor, even the most primitive, is vital to technology. Secondly, the armor must be on wheels. The distances in Ukraine are rather big, the resource of tracked vehicles is spent inefficiently. Especially with a chronic shortage of armored vehicles. It is highly desirable that with three or four driving axles. Here, the cross-country ability is higher, and mine resistance is at a height. Unfortunately, in the NATO countries over the decades of the Cold War with Russia, a lot of equipment has accumulated that is not bad for Bandera. It is worth mentioning right away that the supply of modern military equipment for the Armed Forces of Ukraine is currently impossible. Europeans are held back by the high cost of cars, and the general scarcity, and the danger of falling into the number of Russian trophies. Let's figure out what the big European trio - Great Britain, Germany and France can give the Kyiv nationalists. Let's leave the multiple launch rocket systems out of the scope of the review, since they are indirectly related to armored vehicles.

United Kingdom


The British were among the first to send their illiquid assets for disposal in the vastness of Ukraine. Suffice it to recall the police officer Saxon from the 70s, which is suitable for the realities of the special operation only because of the presence of bulletproof armor. In addition to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the military of Oman, Mozambique, Somalia and a number of other developing countries are users of the ancient armored car. Apparently, the time will come for another British armored personnel carrier - the FV603 Saracen. The car is six-wheeled, which is welcomed by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The main advantage of the armored personnel carrier is its high cross-country ability and relatively good power-to-weight ratio - from 14,5 liters. s./t. There are practically no Saracens left in the UK, but no one forbids buying a few dozen armored vehicles from numerous operators - South Africa, Jordan and Indonesia.


FV603 Saracen for Ukrainian nationalists? Why not. Source: wikipedia.org

The British delivered several dozen MRAPs to Ukraine - including Husky TSV, Wolfhound and Mastiff PPV. But these are armored cars mainly for “good weather”, which is not planned until the spring of 2023, therefore the use of heavily armored trucks (which, in fact, are the various MRAPs) will be limited to highways.

Most likely, an increase in the supply of tracked armored vehicles of the Alvis Stormer series is expected. This is not the first time they have been in Ukraine - before that, the nationalists received Stormer HVM - a short-range anti-aircraft missile system with Starstreak missiles. The British separately trained the operators of this technique at home. Whether this technique has a significant impact on the course of hostilities is unknown. But the appearance of the reconnaissance Stormer 30 (ATGM TOW and 30-mm cannon) can increase the strike potential of the mechanized units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.


Bandvagn 206. Source: wikipedia.org

Ukrainian winter is ahead. On average, snow cover can reach 60-70 cm, and in some areas up to one meter. Zelenskiy’s next plea for help will likely include a list of snowmobiles. This is a separate class of military equipment, which includes tracked two-link all-terrain vehicles. The closest Russian relative is the GAZ-3344-20 Aleut. Not only Great Britain, but also Sweden, traditionally one of the main users of such equipment, can help the nationalists in this matter with supplies. The first in line is the Bandvagn 206 model of 1976, which the Swedes have produced more than 11 thousand over the years of production.

Germany


German armored vehicles in Ukraine are presented rather sparingly - apart from the Gepard ZSU removed from storage and the new PzH 2000 self-propelled guns, nothing more made in Germany appeared. Meanwhile, gas dependence on Russia is gradually weakening, which will invariably increase the supply of weapons - now there is no point for the Germans to be especially careful. Deliveries of fifty Dingo ATF armored vehicles assembled on the basis of the famous Unimog all-terrain vehicle have already been announced. This is a modern armored vehicle developed by the Germans in the early 2000s. Dingo is eight tons of curb weight, protection against machine gun fire (7,62 mm) and the ability to carry eight infantrymen. The advantage of the armored car is high mine protection. Kyiv received a promise to send a batch of cars back in early September, but so far not one of them has shown itself in Ukraine. This may be a repeat of the British story with twenty AS-90s, which Johnson literally wrapped in gift paper in March, but then was banned by Secretary of Defense Wallace. The Kyiv elite should take a closer look at the TPz 1 Fuchs armored personnel carrier, which may appear to replace the Dingo.


Bandera's TPz 1 Fuchs won't even have to erase their crosses. Source: wikipedia.org

This machine is much more adapted to the realities of Ukraine. There are three pairs of driving wheels, a satisfactory ability to swim and ten paratroopers at once behind the armor. The Germans built more than one and a half thousand of these machines (300 of them in the Bundeswehr), therefore, if Berlin has the political will, the appearance of Bandera Fuchs is more than likely. So far, the Germans are holding on to good, in general, armored personnel carriers, complaining about the impossibility of an adequate replacement. An attentive reader will surely notice that if the Fuchs are tipped by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, then the exotic reconnaissance SpPz 2 Luchs can also be expected. Indeed, the machines were developed and adopted by the Bundeswehr almost simultaneously and had to complement each other on the battlefield. Only now Luchs is a much more complex machine that requires skilled maintenance. Only one scheme with all steerable wheels is worth something. The inability to transport troops is also a big minus in the karma of the German intelligence officer. In addition, the Luchs armored car was withdrawn from service and transferred to storage, which adds to the difficulties in restoring it to combat readiness.


SpPz 2 Luchs. Source: wikipedia.org

Much more likely is the appearance on the battlefield of the German "Martens" - Marder infantry fighting vehicles. This is one of the most common and successful infantry fighting vehicles of the Cold War era. In Germany, the BMP is gradually being replaced by the new Puma vehicle, so the Germans are quite able to allocate a certain amount of Marder. It is still premature to talk about the appearance of German tanks in Ukraine. This is a rather painful issue for the German government - in words they declare the purely defensive composition of the supplied equipment. The Panzerhaubitze 2000 mentioned above is not particularly suitable for this concept, but otherwise it is a perfect Ordnung. With German tanks, Berlin risks running into not only an aggravation of the conflict on the part of Russia, but also an increase in discontent within the country.

France


The country, which one German general very accurately noted - “are these also winners?”, Is also trying to help the nationalists in Ukraine. From the new armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, only CAESAR self-propelled guns got, otherwise the deliveries consist of the true heritage of the Cold War. These are forty-year-old self-propelled guns TRF1, present in single quantities in the French army. These are no less ancient VAB armored personnel carriers, which have already come under fire from Russian troops. The announced plans include the supply of ACMAT Bastion armored vehicles, the first serial copies of which appeared in 2010. It would seem quite a modern car, but there is one caveat. The export-oriented military industry of France was preparing Bastion for third world countries - Somalia, Niger, Burkina Faso and so on. Now Ukraine is on the list. If the machine is intended for Africa, then it must necessarily have remarkable anti-mine resistance. Albeit to the detriment of all other qualities. Bastion is just that.


ACMAT Bastion. Source: wikipedia.org


AMX-10RC. Source: odetievbrony.ru


E.R.C. Sagaie. Source: wikipedia.org

Do not underestimate the potential of French supplies to the Kyiv regime. Paris has a lot of highly mobile wheeled tanks in stock - the ERC Sagaie with a 90mm gun and the AMX-10RC with a 105mm gun. With some luck, these vehicles can compete with the Russian BMP-3 and BMD-4M in terms of firepower. At the same time, the image of an offensive weapon in these vehicles may stop the French from deliveries. The reasons are similar to German restraint in this matter.
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  1. Silver99
    Silver99 15 November 2022 05: 45
    -1
    With all the diversity, there is one significant minus, the equipment is not unified, which means it is of little repair. There is a direct connection with the transport infrastructure of Ukraine, whether they will be able to roll it to Europe and back for repairs. Again, fuel and oils, European engines are very sensitive to the quality of fuels and lubricants.
    1. Civil
      Civil 15 November 2022 07: 38
      +4
      The export-oriented military industry of France was preparing Bastion for third world countries - Somalia, Niger, Burkina Faso and so on. Now Ukraine is on the list.

      Everything is at the right address - both Russia and Hohland in all respects are now countries of the 3rd world.
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 15 November 2022 11: 59
      +10
      Is everything unified in Russia?
      T-80BV/BVM
      T-80U - fortunately, the valiant guardsmen have already issued almost all T-80Us under lend-lease, now let the APU suffer with them.
      Т-72Б-Б89-Б3-Б3М-90
      T-90M
      T-72A used to be only Chebarkul, and now they are in the form of replenishment, including Belarusian canned food according to GOST.
      T-64BV are different, from trophy ones to the reserves of the DPR / LPR.
      T-62M
      When regrouping, for example, they forgot the T-62A of the 1967 model without a laser rangefinder, that is, even from the category of artillery on tracks, this is rubbish.

      And that's just for tanks. BMP1 / 2 with BMP-3 are not unified in any way. In some shots, BTR-70 gasoline vehicles are already flashing by.
    3. AG-76
      AG-76 15 November 2022 14: 06
      +8
      This heterogeneity and lack of uniformity in the equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was discussed several months ago, but nevertheless they are advancing. They will arrange both supply and repair, etc., while the supply routes are working normally. And they have been working uninterruptedly for 9 months... Russia doesn't need a victory?
      Is everything in order with unification in Russia? Tanks of various types, MLRS of various types, self-propelled guns of various types ...
    4. The comment was deleted.
  2. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 15 November 2022 05: 45
    +2
    Ukroreich has become a dumping ground for various Western military equipment and weapons ... they are driving everything there in whole columns ... not a country, but some kind of passage yard.
    This can go on indefinitely.
    As for the supply of new military equipment to NATO, I disagree with the author ... Polish crews of vacationers are already fighting at the front on their equipment ... the turn of the rest of NATO countries will soon come.
    1. saigon
      saigon 15 November 2022 05: 56
      +10
      Well, you can talk about Polish crews only after these crews are captured in a place with equipment or captured (although mercenaries must be stopped immediately) or in the form of carcasses with documents.
      Everything else, forgive me, is bylichki.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 15 November 2022 07: 55
        -1
        There is a lot of Polish meat on the battlefields ... I wonder why there are still no Polish prisoners. what
        1. saigon
          saigon 15 November 2022 13: 54
          +4
          But you never know how much lies, not an argument.
          That's when the screams of the burning POLISH crew are removed and posted underground on the phone or there, you can believe it.
          1. Konstantin Shevchenko
            Konstantin Shevchenko 15 November 2022 14: 54
            -2
            There is a video in the cart. Today they distributed it, though it was filmed in September.
  3. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 15 November 2022 05: 53
    +1
    What kind of armored vehicles can NATO send to Ukraine
    And what can we do to prevent all this splendor from reaching the consumer?
    1. Dartanian
      Dartanian 15 November 2022 06: 06
      +7
      Nothing :) this is not a red line, the guarantor with partners because of such smallness as the supply of weapons to kill Russians will not swear. Sanctions are removed from the coryphany of the guarantor of the jester, and you, like a child, are talking about some kind of splendor
    2. novel66
      novel66 15 November 2022 08: 42
      +1
      no no no! what do we want to do about it?
      Volodya! hi
      1. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 15 November 2022 10: 32
        +3
        Quote: novel xnumx
        what do we want to do about it?

        1. Do we want to? 2. Can we?
        Roma! hi
    3. saigon
      saigon 15 November 2022 13: 51
      +3
      Sorry, we can’t do anything, but for those who can, there are no commands, alas.
      Politics is so nimble and twisted.
      1. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 15 November 2022 14: 42
        +1
        Quote: saigon
        Politics is so nimble and twisted.

        Politics is a dirty, corrupt girl!
  4. saigon
    saigon 15 November 2022 05: 54
    +2
    And why the hell would they break something new for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and in principle, there is enough junk for the Armed Forces of Ukraine to win, there are examples and not long ago.
  5. Negro
    Negro 15 November 2022 08: 17
    +7
    What kind of armored vehicles can NATO send to Ukraine

    Any. Weird question.
    1. novel66
      novel66 15 November 2022 08: 43
      0
      and leopard-2 and leclerc? I doubt..
      1. Negro
        Negro 15 November 2022 09: 13
        +7
        Leo definitely yes, there are 400 pieces of A4 in the cold reserve of different countries. Plus, in Poland, under the Leopard, there is a repair base. Plus, the Turks and Greeks have fours to hell with these leopards, they can exchange them for something more useful.
        Leclercs in the reserve is a division, Ariente - a brigade. So if there is a desire - you can put anything.
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 15 November 2022 09: 17
        +1
        They can give the Turks Abrams sep3 and take all the tanks from them
        1. Negro
          Negro 15 November 2022 09: 29
          +3
          Theoretically, if the taboo on the supply of Western equipment is lifted, then the topic of Leo's exchange loses its meaning. You can just start chasing Abrams, there are a lot of them.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 15 November 2022 09: 34
            0
            Abrams also have old designs ... but why? What to take from storage, what M60 ..... So far, no one has mass production of tanks for the war.
            1. Negro
              Negro 15 November 2022 09: 36
              +5
              Quote: Zaurbek
              What to take from storage, what M60 .....

              Weird question. Abrams are better in terms of anti-tank capabilities, given that any Abram can use modern shells. For other purposes, the M60 norms.
        2. novel66
          novel66 15 November 2022 09: 32
          +2
          everything is not easy with the Turks there, they kind of sent someone somewhere ..
      3. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 15 November 2022 09: 35
        +1
        There are few Leclercs in pieces ..... you can also Chieftains ..... but there is a rifled barrel.
    2. Wildcat
      Wildcat 15 November 2022 11: 51
      +1
      hi
      IMHO technique will not be given any, but one that a) is not needed by ourselves b) on the go. Therefore, they drive MCIs, which after Afghanistan are not particularly needed.

      M113 and other relics of the Cold War will be given "out of stock, on the go, but not necessary", like the US National Guard (or military police with M1117).
      From the "storage bases" another question is what can be "raised on the move" and for what money and in what time frame.

      Here the Armed Forces of Ukraine have all hope for the races of Prytul and Poroshenko, "private traders" will sort it out faster with BHVT (they are garbage dumps).
      By the way, about Poroshenko: it's funny, but the former Presidents can run around the garbage dumps among the pieces of iron, and the "first lady" runs around with a professional smile of unearthly joy on her face ... recourse

      Regarding tanks, IMHO, there will be no Abrams, Leo1-2, or M60 in the foreseeable future.
      The Armed Forces of Ukraine really want them, but each tank pulls serious logistics for fuel, ammunition, and repairs.
      The "Ramstein Coalition" gave priority over the "NATO-tanks" to the more necessary artillery, MLRS and air defense, and probably from a military point of view, this is correct: anti-tank systems in the Armed Forces of Ukraine are perfectly closed by anti-tank systems (they have already given TOU, they are like "guano behind a bathhouse") , indirect fire artillery and MLRS, already using the example of the Antonov bridge, it proved that "accuracy is more important than quantity."
      IMHO, tanks for the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be collected from all over the world of "Soviet-style" well, "Schaub was." And the Abrams, Leo2, Marders and other not the worst things will go along "ring exchange"- give the Armed Forces of Ukraine Soviet-style equipment, get something of the NATO standard. T55 for the Armed Forces of Ukraine was recently exchanged for trucks in general.
      1. Negro
        Negro 15 November 2022 13: 38
        +7
        Quote: Wildcat
        IMHO technique will not be given any, but one that a) is not needed by ourselves b) on the go.

        Speculation. Infantry weapons were transferred to the latest and in a huge volume (tens of percent of the availability).

        I agree that it is impossible to predict the composition of the transferred weapons. However, if we are discussing not desires, but OPPORTUNITIES - the possibilities are huge.
  6. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 15 November 2022 09: 16
    0
    The most useful thing is armored vehicles from storage ... M60 and Leo1 with modernization. And BTR M113. There are many of them, and without them you can forget about offensives or maneuvers. This is if they don’t find somewhere a lot of old Soviet or Chinese tanks. The Romanian ones are still suitable ... Israel had Tyrants - alterations. And heavy armored personnel carriers from the T-55
  7. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 15 November 2022 11: 19
    0
    The author apparently never walked through the Ukrainian mud. After heavy rains, even a four-axle armored personnel carrier - 80 gets stuck, two- and three-axle vehicles can not be mentioned.
  8. APASUS
    APASUS 15 November 2022 11: 59
    -1
    There is only one question: where will they get so many competent and trained personnel in Ukraine? The difference between AMX-10RC and PzH 2000 is just an abyss
  9. Radikal
    Radikal 15 November 2022 13: 04
    +1
    What else to expect? What kind of armored vehicles can NATO send to Ukraine
    Well, if the disgusting attitude towards the infrastructure of Ukraine continues, then we can wait for the delivery of ... tactical nuclear weapons, after the Ukroreich receives trained pilots, and the aircraft carrying these weapons themselves. sad
  10. veteran tanker
    veteran tanker 15 November 2022 13: 55
    +3
    On the issue of training the driver's staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine for operations with wheeled armored personnel carriers supplied by the West.
    There are no problems to be seen here.
    The Russian program for training drivers of wheeled armored personnel carriers (VUS-124), in DOSAAF driving schools, for citizens who do not have a category “C” driver's license, the training period is 4-4,5 months. This is for training from scratch to both a truck and an armored personnel carrier.
    At the same time, driving is 50 hours in a truck and 16 hours in an armored personnel carrier. If you have category “C” rights, the training period is reduced by more than two.
    Given that winter is ahead, during which active hostilities are not expected, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have more than enough time to train drivers for Western armored personnel carriers.
    Questions will arise with the organization of the repair of these armored personnel carriers and with the supply of conditioned fuels and lubricants for each brand of armored personnel carriers.
  11. Pavel57
    Pavel57 15 November 2022 16: 38
    -1
    Quote: novel xnumx
    and leopard-2 and leclerc? I doubt..

    There is also a layer of Romanian tank building.
  12. futurohunter
    futurohunter 15 November 2022 22: 26
    0
    I hope they will refrain from AMX-10RC? The car is not bad, the French themselves need them. Such machines would be a headache for our troops.
  13. tsvetahaki
    tsvetahaki 16 November 2022 00: 34
    +2
    The British were among the first to send their illiquid assets for disposal in the vastness of Ukraine.

    However, despite the problems with supply, antiquity, etc., according to the results, the army armed with these "garbage" rejects troops armed with "analogues" quite successfully.
    Less ambition would not hurt us.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Nickelium
      Nickelium 16 November 2022 23: 43
      -2
      Maybe then the size of the armies is comparable? They throw meat. If we had such a number of infantry, then the situation would be in the opposite direction. So there is no need to juggle Western technology and NATO generals. For now, meat is everything.
      1. tsvetahaki
        tsvetahaki 17 November 2022 04: 52
        0
        For now, meat is everything.

        I wonder what academies taught you that, especially in defense, everything is decided by meat ??
        And I would like to recall one remarkable meeting of the British, armed with "analogues" of that time, with the perfectly prepared, courageous and fearless Zulu army, full of "meat" ...
        1. Nickelium
          Nickelium 17 November 2022 17: 36
          -1
          Is Sumeria on the defensive? I didn't know, I didn't know.
          Well, the Zulus with NATO weapons are good. Next time before you fart about the Zulus, wake up. and it turns out that your pants are wet.
          1. tsvetahaki
            tsvetahaki 18 November 2022 04: 34
            0
            Well, yes, the "Zulus" with NATO weapons are good

            How? You still don't know that Ukrainians are fighting with NATO junk, and we are fighting with "analogues"?
            Did you even read this article?
            Well, wash the shit out of your eyes and read at least THIS article.
            1. Nickelium
              Nickelium 18 November 2022 08: 47
              -1
              Well shit is only pouring out of your mouth. But you must be Superman. Wow, now go to the trenches and show what is analogous to you! Although. stop - it will be difficult to get from Kazakhstan.