Military Review

China abandons Long March 9 expendable super-heavy launch vehicle project

100
China abandons Long March 9 expendable super-heavy launch vehicle project

According to SpaceNews, China has decided to abandon the ambitious project to create a disposable super-heavy launch vehicle Long March 9.


However, this does not mean at all that China is retreating in space exploration, on the contrary, they want to replace this rocket with a reusable carrier.

This information is based on the fact that SpaceNews drew attention to the Long March 9 rocket exhibited at the Airshow China 2022 international air show in the Chinese city of Zhuhai. On this rocket, lattice rudders were seen on the central block, similar to those that have reusable American carriers SpaceX Falcon 9.

For the first time, information about the Long March 9 rocket was presented at the International Aerospace Congress in 2013. This rocket was supposed to be superior to its American counterparts - "Saturn 5" and SLS. Then it was reported that this super-heavy rocket would be able to launch more than 180 tons of payload into low-Earth orbit.

According to the publication, the new version of the Long March 9 is a three-stage rocket with a height of 108 meters and a diameter of about 10 meters. The rocket has a mass of about 4200 tons and will be able to launch 150 tons of payload into low Earth orbit.

A new version of the Long March 9 is expected to fly into space in 2030.
Author:
100 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 11 November 2022 20: 55
    0
    150 tons of payload, Where are you Musk?
    1. Infinity
      Infinity 11 November 2022 21: 01
      +1
      Military Review as usual ... The Chinese do not abandon the "Changzheng-9" (English Long March 9, Russian "Long March-9"), they change its concept. Now this launch vehicle is being created according to Elon Musk's Starship/Super Heavy concept from SpaceX. Take a closer look at the layout of the "Changzheng-9", outwardly very similar to Starship / Super Heavy. Previously, it really resembled the Space Launch System developed by Boeing. Central block + adjustable number of side accelerators.
      Models of Chinese launch vehicles at Airshow China. The largest layout is the Long March-9, on the left is the Long March-5G (by the way, it looks very much like a Falcon Heavy, oh those Chinese laughing ).
      1. SaLaR
        SaLaR 11 November 2022 21: 26
        +6
        Trampoline n-n-need? ..............................
      2. MBRSS
        MBRSS 12 November 2022 01: 46
        +1
        Quote: Infinity
        Now this launch vehicle is being created according to the Starship / Super Heavy concept

        from the concept of Musk there is only the first step. There is no starship, as such. I think this is correct. Too many hemorrhoids with the rescue of the second stage.
      3. marswell
        marswell 12 November 2022 17: 27
        0
        Ty, yes, in order to deal with this, you need, at least, to learn at the school of astronauts, young in the sense, my older brother learned, learned, the Samara Aviation Institute - at that time - and works for himself as a cabinetmaker. Good by the way))))
    2. cold wind
      cold wind 11 November 2022 21: 10
      +6
      Quote: tralflot1832
      150 tons of payload, Where are you Musk?

      SpaceX Starship in LEO will lift up to 150 tons reusable and up to 250 tons expendable. First test flight from month to month.
      1. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 11 November 2022 21: 23
        +4
        To be honest, I like Maskovsky's "shaitan", in childhood there was such a miracle in the book. Czech edition ..
      2. bovi
        bovi 12 November 2022 16: 07
        -1
        this is not from the filming of People in black? I thought so...
      3. marswell
        marswell 12 November 2022 17: 29
        0
        One hundred pounds of the top black *phallus* printed on a 3D printer)))
    3. Laundryman
      Laundryman 11 November 2022 21: 15
      -7
      A new version of the Long March 9 is expected to fly into space in 2030.


      But what, the year 2030 has already come and this rocket has brought out 150 tons of load?
  2. Ulan.1812
    Ulan.1812 11 November 2022 21: 11
    -7
    They will do something, and we? And we will be jealous.
    1. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 11 November 2022 21: 24
      +3
      We would need the Sarmatians at this stage more.
    2. slipped
      slipped 11 November 2022 21: 32
      +13
      Quote: Ulan.1812
      They will do something, and we? And we will be jealous.


      We will not. We have already successfully passed fire bench tests, both methane 80 tons RD-182, and oxygen-kerosene 802 tons RD-171MV.



      In addition, methane RD-0177, the future 100 ton RD-0169, is being tested at KBKhA.

      In addition, this month the scientific and technical council of Roscosmos will consider the submission of the Draft Design for the Amur-LNG launch vehicle, for which TsNIIMash issued a positive decision. laughing

      Therefore, we have a choice - to make an oxygen-kerosene superheavy, on previously proven solutions, as previously assumed, or to make a completely rocket on LNG. If you accept the second option, then you will need to work out a reusable stage. For example, on the same Amur-LNG launch vehicle.

      Meanwhile, more than 1580 tank shells of the new Soyuz-20 launch vehicle, both bench and for the first flight rocket, were welded by the "friction with stirring" method, from alloy 5, on new domestic machines at the Progress RCC.



      In the photo, the rocket tank is welded by argon-arc welding for the stand.
      1. Sochi
        Sochi 11 November 2022 21: 41
        +4
        Are you trying to prove something to the all-prossalchik? He has one gyrus and that one on his ass...
        1. Ulan.1812
          Ulan.1812 11 November 2022 22: 17
          -12
          Quote: Sochi
          Are you trying to prove something to the all-prossalchik? He has one gyrus and that one on his ass...

          Are you talking about this one? Sorry. Do not remember your only gyrus when you sit on a chair. I do not like deputies, especially stupid ones who are rude out of the blue and for no reason.
          1. Sentinel-vs
            Sentinel-vs 11 November 2022 22: 43
            0
            Did the lights turn on in Ukraine? Or are you powered by a generator?
      2. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 11 November 2022 21: 50
        +9
        Great comment, so we live. Thank you. hi
        1. slipped
          slipped 11 November 2022 21: 58
          +4
          Quote: tralflot1832
          Great comment, so we live. Thank you. hi


          Yes, we didn't really die. laughing Now the task is to regain all the technologies of the USSR in terms of creating new launch vehicles with increased payload. The creation of the Soyuz-5 launch vehicle is a somewhat forced, but justified solution for testing production for new, already reusable systems.
          1. tralflot1832
            tralflot1832 11 November 2022 22: 08
            +2
            It’s a pity that you were the only such specialist on the site. It seems that you had a partner with whom you had dialogues about affairs in civil rocket science in Russia.
            1. bovi
              bovi 12 November 2022 16: 39
              +1
              Andrey, the site is frankly inadequate for discussing profile problems, because everyone who the NATO budget allows reads it.
      3. Ulan.1812
        Ulan.1812 11 November 2022 22: 15
        0
        Well, great, long missed the good news.
      4. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 12 November 2022 01: 11
        -2
        Quote: slipped
        We will not.

        Another bright prospect? When will it start flying? I like the enthusiasm of propagandists. Even when everything around will collapse and the country will go to the bottom, they will all talk about brilliant prospects.
        1. slipped
          slipped 12 November 2022 02: 48
          -1
          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
          Another bright prospect?


          We were born to make a fairy tale come true laughing

          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
          When will it start flying?


          As soon as possible. laughing

          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
          I like the enthusiasm of propagandists.


          So the enemies today dream about it. Another enemy? laughing There is no propaganda here, just facts.
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 12 November 2022 14: 26
            -1
            Quote: slipped
            We were born to make a fairy tale come true

            You were born to make a profit out of a fairy tale. And the story is about another country. SVO showed it well.
            Quote: slipped
            As soon as possible.

            We just have to wait a couple more decades. As with a new manned spacecraft. What is it called again now? Only the Federation comes to mind.
            Quote: slipped
            So the enemies today dream about it. Another enemy? There is no propaganda here, just facts.

            The fact is that this is all under development. And you present it as almost a working solution. So if there's an enemy here, it's only you.
            1. slipped
              slipped 12 November 2022 14: 33
              -2
              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              You were born to make a profit out of a fairy tale. And the story is about another country. SVO showed it well.


              What did the SVO show you? laughing Demilitarization and Denazification are in full swing. As stated. Do not trust? lol

              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              We just have to wait a couple more decades. As with a new manned spacecraft. What is it called again now? Only the Federation comes to mind.


              Why "once again"? laughing Another unknown. The contract for production was concluded for the period from 2016-2025. It is in production, soon flight design tests from the Vostochny cosmodrome.

              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              The fact is that this is all under development. And you present it as almost a working solution. So if there's an enemy here, it's only you.


              In order to do something, it must first be developed. Any design engineer will tell you this. The finished product is not born from the void. What is already there today, I showed above - and this is open information. If you're blind, that's your problem. Understood, vrazina? laughing
              1. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 12 November 2022 14: 57
                0
                Quote: slipped
                What did the SVO show you? Demilitarization and Denazification are in full swing. As stated. Do not trust?

                I believe. We have already taken Kyiv. Ah, no. They didn't take it. And yet they left Kherson. As a result of another gesture of voluntary regrouping.
                Quote: slipped
                Why "once again"? Another unknown. The contract for production was concluded for the period from 2016-2025. It is in production, soon flight design tests from the Vostochny cosmodrome.

                How much soon? Years 10 15 20 25 30? Dunnos you will sell this crap with the songs of Rogozin and coloring under Khokhloma and Gzhel.
                Quote: slipped
                In order to do something, it must first be developed. Any design engineer will tell you this. The finished product is not born from the void. What is already there today, I showed above - and this is open information. If you're blind, that's your problem. Understood, vrazina?

                Propagandists should be hung first. They are worse than enemies. Those are at least sometimes honest in their hatred of Russia.
                1. slipped
                  slipped 12 November 2022 15: 58
                  -2
                  Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                  I believe. We have already taken Kyiv.


                  Why should we take Kyiv? belay The terms demilitarization and denazification mean the disarmament or destruction of weapons and Nazis. What is being done. Both are destroyed by the hundreds.

                  Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                  How much soon? Years 10 15 20 25 30? Dunnos you will sell this crap with the songs of Rogozin and coloring under Khokhloma and Gzhel.


                  Ah, clearly another ipsoshnik or Internet Cheburashka. Rest in peace. lol
                  1. IS-80_RVGK2
                    IS-80_RVGK2 12 November 2022 17: 16
                    -2
                    Quote: slipped
                    Why should we take Kyiv? The terms demilitarization and denazification mean the disarmament or destruction of weapons and Nazis. What is being done. Both are destroyed by the hundreds.

                    Really why? The Nazis should demilitarize themselves, and the militarists denazify? Aren't you tired of listening to Konashenkov's ravings about a billion destroyed Bandera and a hundred times suppressed air defense? Or is it really bad with your brain that you don’t notice how the SVO has gained some kind of shitty turn for Russia?
                    Quote: slipped
                    Ah, clearly another ipsoshnik or Internet Cheburashka. Rest in peace.

                    Yap. Where is our area? Where are the positioning, data and reconnaissance satellites? Where are our domestic highmars smashing the enemy in the Lviv region? You clown should be thrown into the trenches in the Donetsk region, otherwise good people are dying, and someone like you is a guardian who is still not needed by anyone. I hope to see you hanged again.
      5. MBRSS
        MBRSS 12 November 2022 01: 34
        -3
        We will not. We have already successfully passed fire bench tests, both methane 80 tons RD-182, and oxygen-kerosene 802 tons RD-171MV.

        In addition, methane RD-0177, the future 100 ton RD-0169, is being tested at KBKhA.

        will consider the delivery of the Draft Design for the launch vehicle "Amur-LNG"

        welded ... more than 20 tank shells of the new Soyuz-5 launch vehicle

        Wonderful. But what does this have to do with the hypothetical domestic SUPER-HEAVY? The Yenisei / Don project, as you know, was postponed indefinitely, but in fact "buried". If the unfortunate Luna-25 was again postponed to 2023 (it was supposed to fly in October), then what kind of superheavy by 2030 can we talk about now? Forget about 12-15 years. God forbid that the A-5V Angara (PN up to 40 tons) be done - this is all that can be planned for this period.
        Therefore, we have a choice - to make an oxygen-kerosene superheavy .. or to make ..

        You won't get far on the choice, you need something else. Sorry for the pessimism, but the hatred is somehow already tired.
        1. slipped
          slipped 12 November 2022 13: 10
          -1
          Quote: MBRBS
          Wonderful. But what does this have to do with the hypothetical domestic SUPER-HEAVY?


          Most directly, the use of RD-182 and RD-0169 engines on such a carrier is being considered.

          Quote: MBRBS
          The Yenisei / Don project, as you know, was postponed indefinitely, but in fact "buried".


          It seems so to you. Cross yourself. Or are you a Mohammedan? laughing

          Quote: MBRBS
          If the unfortunate Luna-25 was again postponed to 2023 (it was supposed to fly in October), then what kind of superheavy by 2030 can we talk about now? Forget about 12-15 years.


          She was supposed to fly on September 27 according to plan. It has absolutely nothing to do with STK. It is impossible to forget what is being worked out today.

          Quote: MBRBS
          God forbid that the A-5V Angara (PN up to 40 tons) be done - this is all that can be planned for this period.


          "Angara-A5" has already been made and flies successfully. "Angara-A5M" flies in 2024. Creation of KVTK and hydrogen URM-3 - 2027, today the engine is successfully burned in KBKhA. - these technologies are necessary for the creation of the Angara-A5V. The infrastructure on Vostochny is being built for a rocket with hydrogen stages.

          Quote: MBRBS
          You won't get far on the choice, you need something else. Sorry for the pessimism, but the hatred is somehow already tired.


          If the usual work of creating a new medium is called in your case "hatting", then what can we talk about with you? laughing
          1. MBRSS
            MBRSS 12 November 2022 14: 55
            -1
            Quote: slipped
            If the usual work of creating a new medium is called in your case "hatting", then what can we talk about with you?

            Yes, we need to tie this discussion. It was about super-heavy, and you are slipping everything on the Angara to me :)) Methane engines in KBHA have been developed for many years, but there is no end in sight to this process.
            1. slipped
              slipped 12 November 2022 15: 43
              0
              Quote: MBRBS
              Yes, we need to tie this discussion. It was about superheavy, and you are slipping me everything Angara :))


              And rolling without the Angara is impossible with us.

              Quote: MBRBS
              Methane engines in KBHA have been developed for many years, but there is no end in sight to this process.


              Once again - methane is needed only at a reusable stage. On disposables, it is better and most importantly cheaper to use naphthyl.
      6. Vyacheslav Ermolaev
        Vyacheslav Ermolaev 12 November 2022 08: 40
        0
        So what? There is no decision even in the future about the construction of a superheavy. And even if it was, it doesn't mean anything. It seems that in 2018 academicians studied the possibility of restoring the production of Energia. Refused. We figured it would be cheaper to make from scratch. They announced that we would make the "Yenisei", After a while it was announced that the "Yenisei" was not enough. The Don will also be built on the basis of the Yenisei. And then the academics decided that all these superheavyweights were completely unnecessary. When flying to the Moon, we will manage with three launches of a heavy Angara. True, a hydrogen engine should be built for it, which has been stuck at the preliminary design stage for many years. You can not remind about the nuclear tug. He has been flying for several years now. The maximum that Russia can do is to cling to China, which has made a stunning breakthrough in 20 years.
    3. Nickelium
      Nickelium 11 November 2022 22: 28
      -12
      They won't. The Union and the then States could do it. The current breed did not come out.
      1. VSO-396
        VSO-396 12 November 2022 05: 25
        -1
        Quote: Nickelium
        They won't. The Union and the then States could do it. The current breed did not come out.

        Yes, and the current States have almost done it: one rocket at Cape Canaveral is ready for launch, the second at Musk, at the cosmodrome in Texas, and also almost ready for launch.
        1. Nickelium
          Nickelium 12 November 2022 06: 51
          -1
          The current States are a parody of those States that mastered the lunar program. The absence of competition does not benefit anyone, giving rise to complacency and degradation. Now there are miserable attempts to inflate the States and China with helium, but both, for various reasons, do not pull. In 1991, we lost not only the Union, but also the further progress of humanity, sliding into sandbox games.
          1. Vyacheslav Ermolaev
            Vyacheslav Ermolaev 12 November 2022 08: 54
            -1
            Are you serious about China? Turn around. You are probably surrounded by a lot of things from China. In 2014, after twenty years of torment, Russia launched Angara-5, China launched its analogue of Angara Change-5 in 2016 and has already made 9 launches and all with a payload. Angara-5 was launched 3 times and only once with a payload.
            1. slipped
              slipped 12 November 2022 13: 36
              +1
              Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
              Angara-5 was launched 3 times and only once with a payload.


              Which just says that this payload is not ready and nothing more. How to do so and fly more. The rocket is already flying beautifully, which it proved with its three launches.
            2. Nickelium
              Nickelium 12 November 2022 14: 20
              0
              Why should I turn around? What great discoveries did China make during this time? I will give an example of the USSR - they launched a satellite into space for the first time in the world, the world's first nuclear power plant, the world's first ekranoplan, the world's first space drone "Buran". Now let's list the Chinese discoveries for me ..
              1. slipped
                slipped 12 November 2022 14: 37
                +1
                Quote: Nickelium
                Now let's list the Chinese discoveries for me ..


                By the way, China just completed copy paste fast delivery of cargo to KKS. laughing They are in a hurry to show that THEY CAN ALSO like Russia, even a little faster. lol

                1. Nickelium
                  Nickelium 12 November 2022 16: 01
                  -1
                  Answer my previous question: what has China discovered over the years? Well, if without photocopies.
                  1. slipped
                    slipped 12 November 2022 16: 10
                    0
                    Quote: Nickelium
                    Answer my previous question: what has China discovered over the years? Well, if without photocopies.


                    This is not for me. But already opened. laughing
                    https://habr.com/ru/news/t/687424/
                    1. Nickelium
                      Nickelium 12 November 2022 17: 57
                      0
                      No, we are simple people. Do you verbally explain what breakthrough China has done during this time?
                      1. slipped
                        slipped 13 November 2022 02: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Nickelium
                        No, we are simple people


                        So simple that the link is broken to open? It's clear.
                      2. Nickelium
                        Nickelium 13 November 2022 13: 28
                        -2
                        Did I understand correctly that in this link you yourself do not know? Clearly understood.
              2. MBRSS
                MBRSS 12 November 2022 16: 43
                -1
                Nickelium: gunpowder, compass, paper and .. - attention! -- rocket! ))))))
                Joke, because this is in the past, because the USSR has sunk into oblivion. The Russian Federation, of course, is the successor, incl. and by natural wealth, but not by political will, alas. Yes, the economy is failing.
                1. Nickelium
                  Nickelium 12 November 2022 18: 02
                  +1
                  Well, firstly, it was a very long time ago and Xi Jinping is clearly not from the early Middle Ages, and secondly, who told you that it was the Chinese who invented this? Previously, white people lived on the territory of China - Tochars and Dinlin. Their burials are now found in China. Maybe they invented it, and the Chinese appropriated their achievements? Well, a nation cannot become dumb and not invent anything for almost 2 thousand years. Here, either the Chinese are not capable of creativity, or the inventions are not theirs.
                  By the way, the rocket was invented in India. There, too, there was an invasion of northern barbarians. They were called Arias.
    4. marswell
      marswell 12 November 2022 17: 35
      0
      this is your Ukrainian share
      Sorry, I'm not smart enough to write a normal comment.
    5. Eduard Egorov
      Eduard Egorov 13 November 2022 02: 49
      0
      What to envy? You can make engines cheaper, and run them with a larger load, and the launches themselves will be cheaper. Than then spend fuel on the return and maintenance of launch vehicles.
  3. DymOk_v_dYmke
    DymOk_v_dYmke 11 November 2022 21: 21
    +3
    Yes, let them develop for themselves - they have the resources for this.
    1. Ulan.1812
      Ulan.1812 11 November 2022 22: 19
      -1
      Quote: DymOk_v_dYmke
      Yes, let them develop for themselves - they have the resources for this.

      We have them too, just in the wrong pockets.
      1. quote
        quote 12 November 2022 11: 37
        -1
        And in whose pockets? Well, tell me.
        1. Ulan.1812
          Ulan.1812 12 November 2022 14: 15
          +1
          Quote: devis
          And in whose pockets? Well, tell me.

          Well ... Dear, are you joking? Or are you that naive?
          If you do not know this, then apparently you live somewhere on the island. Ask Roma Abramovich, the Americans have just returned 6 billion to him.
    2. Eduard Egorov
      Eduard Egorov 13 November 2022 02: 53
      0
      Russia also has resources, it’s just that you just need to weigh everything correctly, you can make engines cheaper, and just bake them out like pies. Instead of spending later on servicing reusable launch vehicles, there was already something similar with shuttles, and again they returned to this.
      1. DymOk_v_dYmke
        DymOk_v_dYmke 13 November 2022 03: 59
        0
        Quote: Eduard Egorov
        there was already something similar with the shuttles, and again they returned to this.

        A return to old technical solutions at a new level is a classic of the development of technology. hi
  4. MBRSS
    MBRSS 11 November 2022 22: 13
    -1
    In fact, so far there has been no official rejection of the old project. The Chinese are still scratching their turnips and watching Musk. There is no doubt that they will do something by 2030, because. in fact, this is the second space power already.
    1. slipped
      slipped 11 November 2022 22: 22
      +3
      Quote: MBRBS
      because in fact, this is the second space power already.


      Third. The status of "Space Powers" is obtained not only by counting the number of space launches per year. Only internet hamsters get sick of it. laughing
      1. MBRSS
        MBRSS 12 November 2022 00: 56
        -1
        Quote: slipped
        The status of "Space Powers" is obtained not only by counting the number of space launches per year.

        And here the number of launches??? Do you prefer to turn a blind eye to the pace of development? Only internet hamsters get it laughing :
        1) Long-term habitable station of the three modules were mounted in a short time by the standards of the industry.
        2) moonwalker walks on the moon.
        3) one and a half kilos lunar soil delivered to Earth.
        4) rover walks on Mars.
        5) Your analogue of GPS - "Beidou" - works. Satellite constellation in general more than ours, about one and a half times.
        6) optical orbiting telescope finish, in a year they will launch.
        7) the subject of this article -- superheavy, is designed and financed, unlike ours. The production of structural elements is being worked out.
        8) Cosmodromes -- 4 things.
        and the number of launches, which is constantly growing, unlike some, also says something.

        I hope it's enough to understand that the Chinese will be on the moon before us.
        1. slipped
          slipped 12 November 2022 02: 19
          +1
          Quote: MBRBS
          1) Long-term habitable station of the three modules were mounted in a short time by the standards of the industry.


          China is learning from the mistakes of others. All three station modules were prefabricated.

          Let me remind you that during the decommissioning of the base unit of the Mir station, the 17K BB module and the 37KE Kvant retrofit module were decommissioned. The rest of the retrofit modules for the MIR station from TsIKh at that time were simply not ready. The same applies to the ISS - the 77KM module (FGB Zarya) and the 17KSM module (SM Zvezda) were launched in a fairly short time - the difference of two years is due to insufficient funding from the Yeltsin administration. only as they are created, but due to delays from partner countries, including those associated with the shuttle crash, as well as financial problems at manufacturing enterprises.

          Quote: MBRBS
          2) moonwalker walks on the moon.


          Their first Lunokhod "Hare" traveled 100 meters and stopped breaking down, the second - a kilometer. During all this time. The pictures sent are beautiful. Conducted studies of the lunar soil. We conducted an experiment with living organisms in microgravity.

          In the USSR, Lunokhods explored an area ten times larger on the Moon, more than 46 km were covered by telecontrol - medical and biological data from the team of drivers were also comprehensively studied. During the movement of vehicles on the surface of the Moon, studies of the physicochemical and magnetic properties of the lunar soil were carried out. A large number of television photographs and photo panoramas, including those with high resolution (6000 lines for vertical ones), were obtained. All received data are stored in IKI RAS.

          Quote: MBRBS
          3) one and a half kilos lunar soil delivered to Earth.


          The mass delivered does not matter much. Variety matters. But the Chinese discovered in the brought soil, in their words, a new element.

          In the USSR, AMS Luna 16,20,24 delivered various lunar soil from three different places on the Moon, including from a depth of 160 cm - while the fence itself was about two meters, as it were held at an angle. Lunar soil has been studied for 40 years and is stored at the Institute of Geochemistry of the Russian Academy of Sciences. During this time, unique data on the composition have been obtained. Russian scientists continue to study it - the latest publications in scientific journals were recently.

          Quote: MBRBS
          4) rover walks on Mars.


          This is truly an achievement. The USSR was engaged in Mars in the 60-70s, unfortunately, the imperfection of space technology of that period did not allow to carry out everything that was planned. The Phobos stations in the 80s and the already almost Russian Mars-96 fell victim rather to negligence. But the problem with AMC "Phobos-Grunt" is the result of underfunding of the XNUMXs.

          At the same time, the USSR did a great job with Venus.

          Today, Russia has been scanning Mars from orbit under the ExoMars atmospheric research program for the past five years.

          Quote: MBRBS
          5) Your analogue of GPS - "Beidou" - works. Satellite constellation in general more than ours, about one and a half times.


          Russia has GLONASS that works globally laughing It was fully deployed in the late 80s, then re-deployed in the XNUMXs. Moreover, the accuracy is higher than that of Beidou, which is regional and has only recently been declared global. The number of satellites in the space segment is leveled by ground-based signal correction stations, of which Russia simply has more and new ones appear.

          Quote: MBRBS
          6) optical orbiting telescope finish, in a year they will launch.


          The achievements of the USSR in the field of astrophysical observatories are quite interesting. For example, the telescope "Glazar" would be installed on the "Kvant" module of the Mir station, and the autonomous space telescopes "Granat" and "Gamma" were also launched into space.

          As for modern Russia, for a long time now we have been using data from both joint astrophysical observatories, such as Integral, and our Spektr program. Under this program, an interferometer with an ultra-long baseline of hundreds of thousands of kilometers was launched into space by the Spektr-R spacecraft (Radioastron) and the Spektr-RG spacecraft (X-ray Gamma) to the Lagrange point L2. Next in line are the Spektr-UV and Spektr-M telescopes. In addition, telescopes for astronomical observation are expected to be installed on the ISS RS in the near future.

          Quote: MBRBS
          7) the subject of this article -- superheavy, is designed and financed, unlike ours. The production of structural elements is being worked out.


          Wrong. Our STK "Yenisei" has already been designed. The first stage of the Soyuz-5 rocket is its module. The Soyuz-5 launch vehicle is in production and is undergoing bench tests. Today, the project is being revised to switch to methane technologies and reusability.

          Quote: MBRBS
          8) Cosmodromes -- 4 things.
          and the number of launches, which is constantly growing, unlike some, also says something.


          Russia today has two operating cosmodromes on its territory - Plesetsk and Vostochny - both are being developed, two cosmodromes - Sea Launch, the Yasny launch base are not used, they are temporarily mothballed. One cosmodrome on foreign territory - Baikonur.

          The number of launches depends on the amount of ready payload. In addition, Russia is under sanctions pressure, which does not prevent an average of more than 20 launches per year.

          Quote: MBRBS
          I hope it's enough to understand that the Chinese will be on the moon before us.


          Wrong. Russia and China have concluded a preliminary agreement at the level of space agencies on the creation of a joint lunar scientific base. The issue of an interstate agreement is being worked out. At the same time, both countries are considered in this project as equal partners.

          And this, in turn, speaks of the integration of domestic lunar programs. For example, our orbital lunar station "Luna-26" in the near future will interact with the Chinese landing station "Change-7" under one program.
          1. MBRSS
            MBRSS 12 November 2022 04: 01
            +1
            All three station modules were prefabricated.

            They laughed, however. ALL devices are made in advance. Another matter, with what speed. Corps "Science" byd ready in the last century, for example.
            Their first Lunokhod "Hare" traveled 100 meters

            I didn't write about the first one.
            In the USSR, Lunokhods explored an area ten times larger on the Moon,

            AMS Luna 16,20,24 delivered various lunar soil to the USSR

            The achievements of the USSR in the field of astrophysical observatories are quite interesting.

            The USSR landed probes on Venus. You can also recall the BTA-6, once the largest telescope in the world, even if it was ground-based. Or about the Yuri Gagarin ship, and so on and so forth. But we are talking about the current Russian Federation. And its prospects for space exploration, under the current government. After the accident with Phobos-Grunt (or rather, when it turned out that, contrary to tradition, there was no backup apparatus), when the program was screwed up, along with the work of scientists and engineers, I had all the illusions about the interest of the authorities in scientific space, completely evaporated. Sorry, I don't believe.
            I am a little aware of our space programs, which more and more remain on paper "due to insufficient funding", or float away to the right, beyond the event horizon :) As they say, God forbid finish already started. And I still strongly doubt that the Chinese will treat us as equal partners in lunar programs. Because we will not be able to offer them anything that they themselves will not do by that time. They have long proclaimed that everything should be "made in China". Here they are stupidly, in a good way, and follow this principle. And we have nothing more to tear down. Is that "Nuklon", which is not yet. We can still (more precisely) early warning stations. Then it's definitely nothing else.
            On this optimistic note, I end my writing.
            PS
            Wrong. Our STK "Yenisei" has already been designed.

            Preliminary design? Does he have a chance to reach the CD, in the absence of funding? Besides, are we going to switch to methane? Or not gathered? I think that even in Roskosmos there is no clarity on this matter. My prediction: there will be a superheavyweight in Russia in 15 years, in the most positive scenario. To hell with him, let them consider me an optimist laughing
            1. slipped
              slipped 12 November 2022 12: 25
              +1
              Quote: MBRBS
              They laughed, however. ALL devices are made in advance. Another matter, with what speed. Corps "Science" byd ready in the last century, for example.


              Wrong. Laugh here can only dunno. The hull of the future MLM-U "Nauka" was made as a backup for the hull of the FGB "Zarya" in 1996. The body is not the module itself. The building itself was created for the docking and storage module planned at that time, which was abandoned during the construction of the station for certain reasons. How they abandoned the NEP. After that it was decided remake case under MLM.

              You confused it with the Zvezda SM hull, it really was made in 1982 as a backup for the Mir station BB hull and was planned to replace it in the future. Those. at the time of the creation of the ISS RS, there were only three flight corps of the station modules, of which two modules were made - the first with the money of the Boeing corporation, the second with the crumbs that were allocated by the Yeltsin government and only a large backlog from the USSR made it possible to lag behind at the beginning of the creation of the station by only two years compared to original plans.

              Quote: MBRBS
              I didn't write about the first one.


              So the second one does not shine with success. But yes, they planted and rides, unlike India and Israel. ESA never had them at all.

              Quote: MBRBS
              The USSR landed probes on Venus. You can also recall the BTA-6, once the largest telescope in the world, even if it was ground-based. Or about the Yuri Gagarin ship, and so on and so forth.


              You can remember, or you can feel it all. Now there is a project "Venera-D", which in terms of its potential volume of data acquisition exceeds that previously obtained in the USSR. The project is being funded and is being implemented. As for ground-based telescopes, let me remind you about net MASTER telescopes or three spacecraft-retransmitters "Luch" on the GSO, which are used to receive information from the "shadow" flight segments and which replace the old floating NPCs. Technology does not stand still, what was in the past is now replaced by a new one.

              Quote: MBRBS
              But we are talking about the current Russian Federation. And its prospects for space exploration, under the current government. After the accident with Phobos-Grunt (to be more precise, when it turned out that, contrary to tradition, there was no backup apparatus), when the program was screwed up, along with the work of scientists and engineers, I had all the illusions about the interest of the authorities in scientific space, completely evaporated. Sorry, I don't believe.


              The work of Roscosmos or IKI RAS, as a customer of scientific programs, does not depend on your faith. Only the USSR could afford understudy devices - no other country due to "unlimited" funding. A fully operational AMS Mars-96 died due to the failure to turn on the serial upper stage DM2. And AMS Phobos-Grunt - because of the wrong decisions (forced due to chronic underfunding of zero) made decisions on the type of control system for its own upper stage. Let me remind you that serial Fregat upper stages were sent to Mars and Venus by two European stations, and the serial Breeze-M heavy module was sent to Mars under a joint program with ESA. As for domestic spacecraft, the new platform from Lavochkin "Navigator" works fine at one and a half million kilometers from the Earth.

              Quote: MBRBS
              I am a little aware of our space programs, which more and more remain on paper "due to insufficient funding", or float away to the right, beyond the event horizon :)


              You are blind. And you do not see what has already been done, despite the "insufficient funding." Floating to the right, even fully funded programs - look at SLS or James Webb, not to mention the rest of the little things.

              Quote: MBRBS
              As they say, God bless finish already begun. And I still strongly doubt that the Chinese will treat us as equal partners in lunar programs. Because we will not be able to offer them anything that they themselves will not do by that time.


              This only speaks of your ignorance of the essence of the issue. For example, the Chinese use Russian radioisotope thermochemical generators in their interplanetary programs. Without them, their stations would simply die. In addition, you do not understand the essence of joint programs.

              Quote: MBRBS
              They have long proclaimed that everything should be "made in China". Here they are stupidly, in a good way, and follow this principle. And we have nothing more to tear down. Is that "Nuklon", which is not yet. We can still (more precisely) early warning stations. Then it's definitely nothing else.


              Yes, already torn apart external and internal (preliminary laughing ) the design of our new-generation Orel spacecraft Return Vehicle, although this is only an appearance. We are still working on interior design solutions. As for the VA functionality, it is completely different from that of China - more technologically advanced. For example, we have a landing method - parachute-jet on retractable shock absorbers. In China - as in their Shenzhou, which, let me remind you, was created from the CA of the Union.

              Quote: MBRBS
              Preliminary design? Does he have a chance to reach the CD, in the absence of funding?


              If it is chosen in this variant, then there will be funding.

              Quote: MBRBS
              Besides, are we going to switch to methane? Or not gathered? I think that even in Roskosmos there is no clarity on this matter. My prediction: there will be a superheavyweight in Russia in 15 years, in the most positive scenario. To hell with him, let them consider me an optimist laughing


              I already wrote that the decision to switch to methane at STK is in the process. It depends on the operation of the middle carrier on LNG. For this, the Amur-LNG sketch is adopted. In addition, this technical question - it is required to accept the main program on the Moon in advance. In the current FKP we have three automatic stations to the Moon.
              1. MBRSS
                MBRSS 12 November 2022 14: 39
                -1
                Well, again you are cunning:
                Laugh here can only dunno. The hull of the future MLM-U "Nauka" was made as a backup for the hull of the FGB "Zarya" in 1996.

                Well, yes, but I don't know. That's exactly what I meant! And if there were no building made with US money, would Science fly to the ISS, even after 20 years? Wouldn't fly.
                So the second one does not shine with success. But yes, they planted and rides

                Well, yes, he rides on the moon and does not shine laughing
                You are blind. And you don't see what's already been done

                I completely see. I write about the state of the industry as a whole, giving examples of what was planned but not done, compared to China.
                Now there is a project "Venera-D", which in terms of its potential volume of data acquisition exceeds that previously obtained in the USSR.

                I know. And we also have Phobos-Grunt-2 and many other wonderful PROJECTS.
                Understudy devices could only be afforded by the USSR

                Now China is quite capable of itself. This is about the pace of development.
                For example, the Chinese use Russian radioisotope thermochemical generators in their interplanetary programs.

                It's true. However, not "rocket science", to learn in 5-10 years, these are stubborn Chinese :)
                the decision to switch to methane at STK is in the process. It depends on the operation of the middle carrier on LNG.

                That's right, in 8 years we will launch Amur, then we will look, then at least another 8 years to do STK. Well, it fits perfectly into my forecast: it will take us 15 years to crawl to STK, in the most favorable scenario. If we have one at all this century. And then we can limit ourselves to the Angara.
                Understand, I am rooting for our astronautics. But I do not suffer from urya-patriotism.
                1. slipped
                  slipped 12 November 2022 15: 38
                  +1
                  Quote: MBRBS
                  Well, again you are cunning:


                  STA ?! belay Where? I only have facts.

                  Quote: MBRBS
                  Well, yes, but I don't know. That's exactly what I meant! And if there were no building made with US money, would Science fly to the ISS, even after 20 years? Wouldn't fly.


                  Wrong. The cases are just made on our money. Like the MLM-U "Science" module itself. You are again confusing it with the Zarya FGB module - it was Boeing that paid for the creation of a functional cargo block-warehouse. But we have our own 1/3 of the internal volume inside. laughing

                  Quote: MBRBS
                  Well, yes, he rides on the moon and does not shine laughing


                  That's just the point - for the very opportunity to ride. laughing Let it ride.

                  Quote: MBRBS
                  I completely see. I write about the state of the industry as a whole, giving examples of what was planned but not done, compared to China.


                  What do you know about what is not done in the current FKP? Never mind.

                  Quote: MBRBS
                  I know. And we also have Phobos-Grunt-2 and many other wonderful PROJECTS.


                  We don't have such a project, don't lie. laughing There is a paper study of the Boomerang project in Lavka. But it is not in the current FKP.

                  Quote: MBRBS
                  Now China is quite capable of itself. This is about the pace of development.


                  No. You're lying again. Double devices are devices launched simultaneously with a short period between launches. China has devices in a small series, just like we do. For example, the station "Luna-25" is a prototype of the heavier station "Luna-27".

                  Quote: MBRBS
                  It's true. However, not "rocket science", to learn in 5-10 years, these are stubborn Chinese :)


                  To do this, you need to get Plutonium-238, which even the United States has not produced enough since 2015 - they are forced to "body" theirs with ours.

                  Quote: MBRBS
                  That's right, in 8 years we will launch Amur, then we will look, then at least another 8 years to do STK.


                  Cool. The Chinese have been making their heaviest carrier, the Long March-5, since 2001, and launched it in 2015. Do you think rockets are being made quickly? laughing

                  Now we are making Soyuz-5 in order to make Amur later. The first Soyuz-5 will be ready in 2024. "Amur-LNG" will be created in parallel. I think it will fly in 2028. As for flights to the Moon, they will start on the Angara-A5V.

                  Quote: MBRBS
                  Well, it fits perfectly into my forecast: it will take us 15 years to crawl to STK, in the most favorable scenario.


                  Does he even need STK then? laughing So far, no one has clearly answered this question. Modern technology makes it possible to do without it.
                  1. MBRSS
                    MBRSS 12 November 2022 16: 18
                    -1
                    No. You're lying again. Double devices are devices launched simultaneously with a short period between launches.

                    yah? But the Chinese did not know about it! They did not launch their duplicate KKS modules "with a small gap". Fuckers... Or sabotage...
                    You are again confusing with the Zarya FGB module

                    here I confess, I probably messed up with financing. I will not check. However, the timeline for the construction of Science is impressive. Even unpretentious Chinese laughing
                    We don't have such a project, don't lie.
                    So, Rogozin lied, but I believed. There was a report that the NPO has not buried the project completely and will be improved.
                    The Chinese have been doing the Long March-5 since 2001, and launched it in 2015. Do you think rockets are being made quickly?

                    In what year did they start designing the Angara? laughing
                    I think it will fly in 2028.

                    Do not forget to hang this forecast on the wall, in a frame. There will be something to laugh at in 2028.
                    Does he even need STK then? laughing So far, no one has clearly answered this question.

                    Wow! "The fox said that the grapes are green." I’ll just correct it: they didn’t answer clearly in the Russian Federation.
                    1. slipped
                      slipped 12 November 2022 16: 57
                      +1
                      Quote: MBRBS
                      yah? But the Chinese did not know about it! They did not launch their duplicate KKS modules "with a small gap". Fuckers... Or sabotage...


                      Firstly, Wentian and Mentian are not duplicates - they are different modules both in terms of functionality and purely technical details. Well, like the same modules retrofitting the station Mir or SM Zvezda. It seems that they have one dad, but boys are still different from girls. laughing

                      Secondly, it meant duplication in AMS.

                      Quote: MBRBS
                      here I confess, I probably messed up with financing. I will not check. However, the timeline for the construction of Science is impressive.


                      The body of the former docking and storage module for the future Nauka module began to be remodeled in 2009, and in 2013 it was already completed. Four years. Are the timings impressive? Then she was in storage, and only at the end of 2017 did they start preparing for the launch. Two years of testing and improvement and launch.

                      Quote: MBRBS
                      So, Rogozin lied, but I believed. There was a report that the NPO has not buried the project completely and will be improved.


                      Can't you see what I'm writing about? belay Project "Boomerang" from NPO. Where did Rogozin lie? tin is simple.

                      Quote: MBRBS
                      In what year did they start designing the Angara? laughing


                      The competition was in 1994 and won it another Angara. The design of today's URM began in 1995, in 2004 the first URM was ready and was already assembled in the workshop. Then there were NARO launches in South Korea with our URM and they were waiting for the completion of the construction of the IC at the military in Plesetsk. Then they successfully launched prototypes from Plesetsk.

                      Quote: MBRBS
                      Do not forget to hang this forecast on the wall, in a frame. There will be something to laugh at in 2028.


                      Before that, both A1.2 and A5 hung in my frame - they all flew successfully.

                      Quote: MBRBS
                      I’ll just correct it: they didn’t answer clearly in the Russian Federation.


                      Russia already has technologies in which STK is not needed.
                      1. MBRSS
                        MBRSS 12 November 2022 18: 31
                        -2
                        1) China built ALL KKS modules with duplicates, at least they said so. You are all somewhere to the side: Mentian-Wentian. Enough already fidgeting.
                        2) Do you want to say that no changes have been made to Science since 2013? Was it wrapped in oiled paper prior to launch? From the beginning of construction (more precisely, designing) to launch - this is the term for the creation of Science. And it's not 4 years!
                        3) You are talking about Boomerang, but I heard about FB-2. Maybe Rogozin called Boomerang that. You wrote that there is no FB-2. I said, so Rogozin lied. Where is the contradiction?
                        5) Angara: 2014-1995=19 years of operation, 3 launches. VP-5 has 8 launches. Why are you making fun of the Chinese?
                        6) When you hang the forecast for STK in the frame, do not forget to indicate only the date - 2028 laughing
                        Russia already has technologies in which STK is not needed.

                        Yes, today's Russia is not needed. Soyuz-2 and Angara, Bulava, Yars and Sarmat cover all requests laughing
                      2. slipped
                        slipped 13 November 2022 02: 50
                        0
                        Quote: MBRBS
                        1) China built ALL KKS modules with duplicates, at least they said so. You are all somewhere to the side: Mentian-Wentian. Enough already fidgeting.


                        They have an analog design layout on Earth, like us, the same MLM-U has the same layout on Earth. Here is their layout:



                        There are no other duplicates. You must have misunderstood them somehow.

                        Quote: MBRBS
                        2) Do you want to say that no changes have been made to Science since 2013? Was it wrapped in oiled paper prior to launch?


                        No I do not want to. That is why the letter U was added to the name. It means improved. For example, an external platform was added.

                        Quote: MBRBS
                        From the start of construction (more precisely, design) to launch - this is the term for the creation of Science. And it's not 4 years!


                        What? EP started only in 2007 at the end, but they really started reworking the hull in 2009. What's wrong with you? belay In 2012, the module entered the RKK for retrofitting and was ready for launch in 2013, and even the crew was preparing for the flight to accept it, but then there was the famous flushing of the tanks, after which chips were found in them. The funny thing is that most likely the "Dawn" also had shavings and this is the one did not stop become the first module of the ISS. But the module was sent to the TsIK where it was shelved for various reasons.

                        Quote: MBRBS
                        3) You are talking about Boomerang, but I heard about FB-2. Maybe Rogozin called Boomerang that. You wrote that there is no FB-2. I said, so Rogozin lied. Where is the contradiction?


                        The name of the project "Boomerang", which repeats "FG", used to be called unofficially "FG-2". So clear?

                        Quote: MBRBS
                        5) Angara: 2014-1995=19 years of operation, 3 launches. VP-5 has 8 launches. Why are you making fun of the Chinese?


                        So what? Once again, the number of carrier launches depends on the amount of ready payload. We have two heavy carriers of the same class - Proton-M and Angara-A5. The latter belongs today to the military and they themselves decide what to let on it. They have already had the A5 ready for launch for half a year in Plesetsk - but its payload is just being assembled. And we have a "civilian" Proton-M - there are more than 10 missiles, until we all shoot off the Angara-A5 will not fly often.

                        Quote: MBRBS
                        ) When you hang the forecast for the STK in the frame, do not forget to indicate only the date - 2028 laughing


                        What for? STK is unlikely to be needed in the form it is today. Most likely they will do it on methane.

                        Quote: MBRBS
                        Yes, today's Russia is not needed. Soyuz-2 and Angara, Bulava, Yars and Sarmat cover all requests laughing


                        Forgotten Sineva. Really cover all requests. For today. But for tomorrow, Soyuz-5, Irkut, Rokot-M are just doing it now. And they will make Amur-LNG.
                      3. MBRSS
                        MBRSS 13 November 2022 05: 40
                        -1
                        Quote: slipped
                        They have an analog design layout on Earth, just like ours ...

                        Wrong! Not a layout, but a flight understudy. They themselves announced the presence of backups in case of an unsuccessful launch.
                        The name of the project "Boomerang", which repeats "FG", used to be called unofficially "FG-2". So clear?

                        It is clear to me that you do not bother to carefully read my messages. We drove.
                        What for? STK is unlikely to be needed in the form it is today.

                        You are the main thing, in the frame indicate: STK 70+ tons, 2028 And what fuel it will be on is not so important.
                        But for tomorrow they are just doing Soyuz-5, Irkut, Rokot-M ...

                        With the exception of Irkut and Amur, probably, all of these are carriers of yesterday.
                      4. slipped
                        slipped 14 November 2022 05: 18
                        0
                        Quote: MBRBS
                        Wrong! Not a layout, but a flight understudy. They themselves announced the presence of understudies in case of an unsuccessful launch


                        As far as I heard, they were going to convert the layout into a flight product. And by the way, they said that in the future, with such a rework, they could add these three modules to the Tiangong to replace those that had worked out their own. The conversation was about the product that I gave in the photo above.

                        Quote: MBRBS
                        It is clear to me that you do not bother to carefully read my messages. We drove.


                        Rogozin spoke about the Boomerang spacecraft project, calling it an unofficial name, which is still in use among Lavochka residents. The meaning of the project has not changed because of this, an even more interesting program has been invented there. It's up to the customers represented by IKI RAS and funding. But not in the current FKP.

                        Quote: MBRBS
                        You are the main thing, in the frame indicate: STK 70+ tons, 2028 And what fuel it will be on is not so important.


                        You are confusing something. I said that the Amur-LNG launch vehicle might fly in 2028. When the start on Vostochny will be built. In order for the STK to fly in 2028, it is necessary today to start screwing on the first stage, which is now being tested, the RD-180MS engine, but so far this topic has been suspended due to a possible transition to methane. Energomash delivered only RD-171MV. It is with this engine that the stage is on the bench.

                        Quote: MBRBS
                        With the exception of Irkut and Amur, probably, all of these are carriers of yesterday.


                        How can ICBMs be carriers of "yesterday", do not smack nonsense. And the Angara spacecraft and the Soyuz-5 spacecraft are modern complexes. The conversion "Rokot-M" has a cheap output per kg.
      2. Vyacheslav Ermolaev
        Vyacheslav Ermolaev 12 November 2022 09: 11
        0
        . Only hamsters wrote down the achievements of the USSR. And space powers send stations to other planets, build new carriers. and certainly do not cancel station launches due to device flaws in changing speed and range. Work on Luna-25 has been going on for 17 years (Luna-Glob in girlhood) and during this time they have not been able to make a lousy radio range finder. Is it called the Great Space Power?
        1. slipped
          slipped 12 November 2022 12: 38
          0
          Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
          . Only hamsters wrote down the achievements of the USSR.


          Hello, garage. No one "writes down the achievements of the USSR." Russia is the legal successor, therefore we have the right to use these achievements to this day. Is it clear now? Your VK group often makes such mistakes.

          Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
          And space powers send stations to other planets, build new carriers. and certainly do not cancel station launches due to device flaws in changing speed and range.


          We are also building new carriers - the Angara spacecraft, the Soyuz-5 spacecraft, the Irkut spacecraft, the Rokot-M conversion spacecraft.

          According to the first, the light version passed flight design tests, the heavy version was completed. According to the second, it will be sent to Peresvet to the stand. On the third - work is underway on the demonstrator. The fourth is generally ready, but does not burn (there is a replacement), and a decision was made to modernize the launch infrastructure - the first launch was postponed for a couple of years.

          As for the station "Luna-25" - under the previous head, the station would have flown away with a probability of 90% in September laughing But, several factors, including, by the way, China's lag in its lunar program, predetermined the transfer of the launch of the station to the next astronomical window for this device. Unfortunately, previous decisions for this AWS require such windows.

          Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
          Is it called the Great Space Power?


          Yes. Problems with one device do not rule out such status. We have many others performed today programs - read FKP to get started.
  5. slipped
    slipped 11 November 2022 22: 14
    +6
    By the way, the construction of the so-called. The "second stage" USK "Amur" under the super-heavy carrier Angara-A5V, at the Vostochny cosmodrome, is in full swing. Completely completed cable filling tower.



    In December, at the already built airfield, the runway of which is designed to receive reusable winged systems, they plan to receive the first heavy aircraft. laughing

    "The airfield has been formed, work is being completed to ensure the readiness of the artificial runway"
    1. MBRSS
      MBRSS 12 November 2022 02: 48
      -1
      Quote: slipped
      By the way, the construction of the so-called. "second stage" USK "Amur" under heavyweight the Angara-A5V carrier, at the Vostochny cosmodrome, is going full speed.

      By the way, "heavyweight" is a new term coined by D.O. Rogozin to tarnish the brains of the townsfolk.
      In Soviet terminology, a super-heavy launch vehicle is considered to be a launch vehicle with a payload of 100 tons or more, into a low reference orbit (LEO). Amers seem to have 50+ tons, for example:
      Saturn-5, 140 tons
      Energy, 100 t
      SLS, 95 t
      Falcon Heavy, 68 t
      Starship, over 100 tons
      Changzheng-9, more than 100
      But Angara-A5V - 38 t, which does not even fit into Amer's concept of SuperHeavy.
      In December, at the already built airfield, the runway of which is designed to receive reusable winged systems

      It remains only to wait for these systems. They probably dream of resurrecting the once buried Baikal project, or they dream of making something like the Boeing X-37. But most likely, just "for show" they noted such a theoretical possibility.
      1. slipped
        slipped 12 November 2022 12: 52
        +1
        Quote: MBRBS
        By the way, "heavyweight" is a new term coined by D.O. Rogozin to tarnish the brains of the townsfolk.


        Wrong. The concept of "superheavy" starts from 70 tons.

        Quote: MBRBS
        In Soviet terminology, a super-heavy launch vehicle is considered to be a launch vehicle with a payload of 100 tons or more, into a low reference orbit (LEO).


        Wrong. The N-1 launch vehicle was smaller in terms of carrying capacity and was super heavy.

        Quote: MBRBS
        Amers seem to have 50+ tons, for example:

        Saturn-5, 140 tons
        Energy, 100 t
        SLS, 95 t


        Quote: MBRBS
        Falcon Heavy, 68 t


        - This is a heavy rocket, which is reflected in the name. In current terminology, this is a "super heavy" missile. This term was introduced for carriers from 30 to 69 tons.

        Quote: MBRBS
        But Angara-A5V - 38 t, which does not even fit into Amer's concept of SuperHeavy.


        Fits in. laughing Missiles are designed for a specific payload. FH - came out oversized, but there were no more options. The rocket launches a much smaller payload in reality than it can.

        Quote: MBRBS
        It remains only to wait for these systems. They probably dream of resurrecting the once buried Baikal project, or they dream of making something like the Boeing X-37.


        No. An ultralight carrier with a winged first stage is called the Irkut. Developed at TsNIIMash on the topic "Krylo-SV".
        1. MBRSS
          MBRSS 12 November 2022 15: 20
          0
          Wrong. The concept of "superheavy" starts from 70 tons.

          Who starts it like this? Is it written down in any normative documents?
          Wrong. The N-1 launch vehicle was smaller in terms of carrying capacity and was super heavy.

          For those years - the 1960s - yes. But in the 80s in the USSR they began to refer to superheavy launch vehicles from 100 tons. PN. Fact. Progress does not stand still.
          This term was introduced for carriers from 30 to 69 tons.

          Entered by whom? In what document and from what year is the decoding of the term "heavyweight" given? I assume there is no such document. And the term was introduced by Rogozin to increase the significance of the Angara in the eyes of the authorities and taxpayers. There was no such term in our astronautics before Rogozin! There were: light, medium, heavy and super heavy carriers. Everything! Moreover, "super-" is just a tracing paper of "super", which in translation into Russian is "super-". Here is a trick from Rogozin :))
          Developed at TsNIIMash on the topic "Krylo-SV".

          Well, of course, how could I forget about another PROJECT! Which is smaller than "Baikal".
          1. slipped
            slipped 12 November 2022 15: 54
            -1
            Quote: MBRBS
            Who starts it like this? Is it written down in any normative documents?


            I can not answer this question. Not a heavyweight specialist. But in specialized literature and journals, such a division was encountered.

            Quote: MBRBS
            For those years - the 1960s - yes. But in the 80s in the USSR they began to refer to superheavy launch vehicles from 100 tons. PN. Fact. Progress does not stand still.


            Yes, not a fact. ))) In the USSR, the presence of the H-1 was simply hidden. But this is a fact.

            Quote: MBRBS
            Entered by whom? In what document and from what year is the decoding of the term "heavyweight" given? I assume there is no such document. And the term was introduced by Rogozin to increase the significance of the Angara in the eyes of the authorities and taxpayers. There was no such term in our astronautics before Rogozin! There were: light, medium, heavy and super heavy carriers.


            Everything is changing. Progress does not stand still. laughing There was no carrier either. And the Angara is a fairly significant rocket - environmentally friendly with great opportunities for modernization.

            Quote: MBRBS
            Everything! Moreover, "super-" is just a tracing paper of "super", which in translation into Russian is "super-". Here is a trick from Rogozin :))


            And I personally like it. And many in the industry too. A very precise definition. laughing

            Quote: MBRBS
            Well, of course, how could I forget about another PROJECT! Which is smaller than "Baikal".


            Well, of course. Shakespearean answer. lol SLK is required for the prompt withdrawal of various small things.
    2. Vyacheslav Ermolaev
      Vyacheslav Ermolaev 12 November 2022 09: 33
      0
      Angara-5V is not a heavyweight. There is no such concept. It's just a heavy carrier. There is a light carrier up to 5 tons per LEO, medium up to 20 tons, heavy - up to 100 tons and super-heavy - over 100 tons
      1. slipped
        slipped 12 November 2022 12: 55
        -1
        Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
        Angara-5V is not a heavyweight. There is no such concept.


        Has already. laughing And several times met in profile articles. But you can also consider it a heavy carrier, of course. This does not change the essence, especially its carrying capacity.
  6. Alien From
    Alien From 11 November 2022 22: 24
    -4
    And by the way, Yuri Alekseevich Gagarin was a pioneer! Only 10 km from us is his home, it's hard to understand what made us like puppies.
    1. slipped
      slipped 11 November 2022 22: 39
      +7
      Quote: Alien From
      ... it's hard to understand what made us like puppies.


      Our cosmonauts, who are now preparing for the next spacewalk to install a new Airlock Camera on the MLM-U "Nauka" module, laugh at such statements:



      Probably, it is the enemies that spread it. Aliens. Yes? laughing
      1. Alien From
        Alien From 12 November 2022 01: 55
        -3
        So alien that smile where will we go after the ISS? And yet, I have complete confidence and respect for our astronauts!
        1. slipped
          slipped 12 November 2022 12: 58
          +1
          Quote: Alien From
          So alien that smile where will we go after the ISS?


          Let's move to ROS.
          1. Alien From
            Alien From 12 November 2022 13: 15
            -1
            Maybe just when? As usual, there are no analogues in the world ??
            1. slipped
              slipped 12 November 2022 13: 33
              -1
              Quote: Alien From
              Maybe just when? As usual, there are no analogues in the world ??


              Today, the preliminary design of the ROS station is underway, which should be completed next year. The Russian government has decided to extend the operation of the ISS RS until 2028. At the same time, interstate agreements have now been adopted only until 2024, so a meeting of the project leaders - the leadership of NASA and Roscosmos and amendments to the agreement on the continued operation of the ISS are required. Considering that, according to the manufacturer, after 2025, the ISS will begin irreversible processes associated with segment aging (and the station has exceeded its SAS period), which will require more attention from the station crew, the launch of the first module of the ROS station is possible one year before the start procedures for flooding the ISS. Therefore, now the output of such a module is planned (I remind you that the EP for the station has not yet been adopted) for 2027. More precisely, the timing of the withdrawal of ROS will become known after the adoption of the project of the station.
              1. Alien From
                Alien From 12 November 2022 13: 52
                -1
                I don't believe a single word of leadership anymore!
                1. slipped
                  slipped 12 November 2022 14: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Alien From
                  I don't believe a single word of leadership anymore!


                  This is your purely personal opinion. As for reality, certain funding is allocated for the development of the ISS RS until 2028. This applies both to the deployment of new devices and instruments on board, and maintenance with the help of TPK and TGC such as Soyuz MS and Progress MS. Also, the ISS RS will be used to test the Orel NP hardware and possibly the Gaganyan spacecraft as part of the station.
  7. ont65
    ont65 11 November 2022 23: 57
    0
    Funny situation. It seems that the Chinese and Russians are scratching their heads in an attempt to understand what is worth copying and what the Americans do not have. And those two concepts went into motion at the same time. Money, unless chickens peck and ruin competitors are taught. And all this despite the fact that no mass launches that give an advantage to one concept over another are expected. On the strength of a couple of times a year pampered for five years proving the steepness. At the same time, the "wise" Russian Ministry of Finance did not give any money at all. - Get around. And all this despite the president's signature under the approved plan. Space collisions for astronomical amounts, you know.
    1. MBRSS
      MBRSS 12 November 2022 03: 07
      0
      Quote: ont65
      And all this despite the president's signature under the approved plan.

      The plan (the launch of the Yenisei in 2028) was successfully canceled a year ago. Musk has a job for rockets - he will carry his Starlinks until he litters all near-Earth space.
      1. slipped
        slipped 12 November 2022 12: 58
        0
        Quote: MBRBS
        The plan (the launch of the Yenisei in 2028) was successfully canceled a year ago.


        Wrong. Development has been suspended pending a decision on the use of LNG.
        1. MBRSS
          MBRSS 12 November 2022 15: 36
          -1
          Wrong. Development suspended

          What exactly is wrong? Those. development is suspended, but the deadlines remain the same? Or does Putin simply not have enough time for such garbage as the cancellation of what he signed earlier? However, it doesn't change anything. Plan canceled until better times laughing
          1. slipped
            slipped 12 November 2022 16: 00
            0
            Quote: MBRBS
            What exactly is wrong? Those. development is suspended, but the deadlines remain the same?


            There was a deadline for the development of the EP. It's done. The timing of the production of the carrier depends on the creation of the MLNS.

            Quote: MBRBS
            Plan canceled until better times laughing


            The creation of the MLNS has not been cancelled.
  8. igorra
    igorra 12 November 2022 05: 06
    -2
    Returning rockets are like green energy. Everything seems to be fine, but for the operation one and a half times more costs are needed than for the usual one. Same with these missiles. While there are no new materials, fuel, principles, finally, it is too early to talk about reusability.
  9. slipped
    slipped 12 November 2022 13: 23
    0
    Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
    So what? There is no decision even in the future about the construction of a superheavy. And even if it was, it doesn't mean anything.


    Funny. laughing What does it mean? China does not currently have a similar missile at the start. The only superheavyweight today is the SLS which is constantly delayed.

    Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
    It seems that in 2018, academicians studied the possibility of restoring the production of Energia. Refused. We figured it would be cheaper to make from scratch.


    Of course. A lot has changed since that time. For example, the concept of the rocket itself. Lateral payload now not required. In addition, as it turned out, it is simply dangerous for her.

    Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
    They announced that we would make the Yenisei. After a while, it was announced that the Yenisei was not enough. The Don will also be built on the basis of the Yenisei.


    Don't read Illustrator often, you've been told this before. He makes money from it.

    Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
    When flying to the Moon, we will manage with three launches of a heavy Angara.


    Two.

    Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
    True, a hydrogen engine should be built for it, which has been stuck at the preliminary design stage for many years.


    Wrong. Here is a photo of the tests of this engine in KBHA



    Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
    You can not remind about the nuclear tug. He has been flying for several years now.


    Also incorrect. You're looking at signed contracts, not at exhibitions. The contract with KB Arsenal for the development of the first spacecraft is ending in 2024. This has been known for a long time and you deliberately bypass this moment by engaging in misinformation.

    Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
    The maximum that Russia can do is to cling to China as a train, which has made a stunning breakthrough in 20 years.


    Let me remind you once again that the MLNS project implies an equal partnership.
    1. MBRSS
      MBRSS 12 November 2022 15: 47
      0
      Two.

      What is it like? "Eagle" on Soyuz-5 will fly? In any case, three starts at least. Two dockings at LEO.
      1. slipped
        slipped 12 November 2022 16: 06
        -1
        Quote: MBRBS
        What is it like? "Eagle" on Soyuz-5 will fly? In any case, three starts at least. Two dockings at LEO.


        Lightweight PTK "Eagle" (Eaglet laughing ) flies on the Angara-A5V, LVPK flies on the Angara-A5V. The missiles will launch from Vostochny and Plesetsk. In orbit of the Moon, the Oryol PTC with the LVPK can dock. Technically it is possible. But not the fact that you need. Perhaps we will dock with Lop-G.
        1. MBRSS
          MBRSS 12 November 2022 17: 22
          -1
          The landing module is also lightweight, for only a "flag pole"? How long will the Eaglet fly to the Moon, with what accelerator? If KVTK, then its mass is already 20 tons, sort of. No, such an expedition is not needed in FIG. Ermolaev wrote correctly - 3 launches. Minimum. And 4 is better.
          1. slipped
            slipped 13 November 2022 03: 26
            0
            Quote: MBRBS
            The landing module is also lightweight, for only a "flag pole"?


            Why a flag pole? In the same place, the joint MLNS with China will already be deployed. laughing In telecamera mode, the first stage will be assembled.

            Quote: MBRBS
            How long will the Eaglet fly to the Moon, with what accelerator?


            Angara-A5V will be able to send at least 15 tons on a departure trajectory to the Moon. And "Eaglet" has its own propulsion module. By the way, there is an option for testing the LVPK in advance - on Luna-28.
            1. MBRSS
              MBRSS 13 November 2022 05: 52
              0
              Why a flag pole? In the same place, the joint MLNS with China will already be deployed. laughing

              Do you hope the Chinese will bring housing and vehicles for us (after all, they will have a superheavy, not ours)? Here is where I approve of the hilarious emoji after the offer. It's funny to me laughing laughing laughing
              By the way, there is an option for testing the LVPK in advance - on Luna-28.

              A-ha-ha-ha! They didn’t come up with anything better than how to “test” a truck in a passenger car? Good luck with your next fantasy!
              1. slipped
                slipped 14 November 2022 05: 44
                0
                Quote: MBRBS
                Do you hope the Chinese will bring housing and vehicles for us (after all, they will have a superheavy, not ours)?


                With the help of Angara-A5V, we obtain a mass of 12 and a half tons in orbit of an artificial satellite of the Moon. It can be a normal residential module. Do you think it will be difficult to dock a propulsion module with fuel for landing? laughing

                Quote: MBRBS
                A-ha-ha-ha! They didn’t come up with anything better than how to “test” a truck in a passenger car? Good luck with your next fantasy!


                What? Laughter for no reason...
  10. Fangaro
    Fangaro 12 November 2022 17: 35
    -1
    And in the Celestial Empire they decided that many small (relatively, of course) and cheap rockets are better than one big and expensive one.
    A confrontation begins between the supporters of the military super-super and the supporters of the military mosquito swarms.