The Andropov plan and its collapse

149
The Andropov plan and its collapse

Selection point


By the early 1980s, it was obvious that it was impossible to live like this any longer. Brezhnev's "golden stagnation", which gave so much to the common Soviet man and allowed the nomenklatura to rest on its laurels, is over. The construction of communism, in essence, has already been abandoned. It seemed that the USSR was beginning to lag behind the capitalist countries of the West. In this situation, the Soviet world was doomed to collapse and absorption by the West.

The new leader of the USSR, the former chief of the KGB, Yuri Vladimirovich Andropov, began to implement his plan of "modernization-restructuring" of the Union. It consisted of two parts.



The first, in foreign policy, is the merging of the capitalist and socialist systems. The Soviet leadership is becoming a full part of the world community.

The second, in domestic politics, is reliance on an active minority dissatisfied with their position. A passionate, qualified and competitive minority was meant, capable of providing a new breakthrough for the country and a full-fledged position for the country in the developed world.

This is how Andropov's project arose - modernization, "restructuring" of the USSR in the direction of the Western civilizational project. The creation of such a symbiosis, which will preserve the USSR-Russia, will give it the opportunity to survive in the new world, where the rules of the game are set by the masters of the West. The Soviet elite in this case became a full-fledged part of the Western (global) elite.

It was convergence - convergence, unification of the Soviet (socialist) and Western (capitalist) models of development. There was a fashionable idea in the Union at that time that more and more elements of socialism were appearing in the Western world, and capitalism in the USSR. Allegedly, the two systems go towards each other. This theory was very much liked by the Soviet elite and the intelligentsia.

Westernization


In reality, the Soviet system has degraded since the time of Khrushchev and Brezhnev. The young Soviet civilization was gradually losing ground to the old capitalist world. True, the Western elite, under the influence of the existence of the USSR, was forced to give concessions to its peoples, went to create a wide stratum of the middle class. In the West, they created a "showcase of capitalism", the illusion of freedom and democracy, the peaceful existence of classes.

In foreign policy, Andropov, before going for a merger with capitalist countries, was first going to scare the Western elite well. To create a strong negotiating base. The Union had to seem like a mighty giant - military and economic. Hence the new round of the Cold War.

The Soviet Union responded harshly to the deployment of American Pershing-2 medium-range ballistic missiles and cruise missiles in Europe. The new secretary general promised to place a tactical nuclear weapon in the GDR and Czechoslovakia and push nuclear submarine missile carriers to the shores of America. The Soviet army fought quite successfully in Afghanistan and took steps towards China. Andropov reacted harshly to the downed Korean Boeing in 1983.

Thus, it seemed that a new crisis of the USSR in relations with the West was beginning. American President Ronald Reagan declared the Soviet Union an "evil empire" and intensified the arms race. Western propaganda launched another information campaign against the Land of the Soviets.

In essence, Andropov followed the path of Tsar Peter I and the Romanov project. He believed that Russian (Soviet) civilization cannot be autocratic, independent, live by its own rules. Therefore, before it is too late, it is necessary to enter the Western project, to become part of Europe. Negotiate with the West. Accept the priority of European civilization and fit into the Western world on a reasonable basis.

Degradation


At the first stage, Andropov planned to carry out internal modernization, a radical restructuring of the economy. It was an acceleration strategy. In foreign policy, this was a tough position, the creation of a strong negotiating base, so that there was something to conclude a big deal with the Western masters.

At the second stage of perestroika, new faces came to power - "liberals". They were found, led and moved up. Leaders such as Gorbachev, Shevardnadze, Ligachev and others, who eventually killed the Soviet civilization.

How it all ended is well known. The masters of the West do not need any Russia - neither tsarist, nor Soviet, nor liberal-democratic. The West only needs a colony, the wealth of Russia, sources of cheap raw materials, labor and a market for its products. And the leaders of the USSR, who came after Andropov, simply merged the great power and the people. Sold for power and a beautiful life for themselves and their offspring.

Andropov's plan to integrate the USSR into the Western world on favorable terms was initially doomed to failure. Suffice it to recall the Romanov Empire, where the nobles were part of Europe, the “enlightened world”. They spoke German and French, but they knew the Russian language and the people poorly. And the vast peasant Russia lived separately, in its own deep world. The Romanovs' project ended in a terrible crash in 1917, a catastrophe and turmoil that almost killed the Russian state and civilization.

An attempt to bring the USSR and the West closer led the Soviet world to immediate disaster.

I started for health, but I finished for the rest


Hence Andropov's undertakings: strengthening labor discipline, rounding up truants; fight against corruption, unearned income, speculation, abuses in trade; an attempt to restore order in Central Asia, which has degraded faster than the whole country; fight against the growing criminal world; purge of the party and state apparatus, including the state security agencies.

At the same time, Andropov began to remove from important party, state, military posts people who could oppose the forthcoming radical restructuring of the country. A team was created that could implement Andropov's program even after his departure. Thus, Gorbachev, Shevardnadze, Aliyev, Ligachev, Ryzhkov, Romanov, and others were consistently advancing. A team of “perestroika foremen,” Westerners like Arbatov, Zaslavskaya, and Yakovlev, was being prepared.

In 1983, Andropov instructed Gorbachev and Ryzhkov to start preparing economic reform. In fact, a plan for a radical restructuring of industry and the entire national economy began to be prepared under Andropov. It was planned to carry out a massive modernization of production, transfer of enterprises and organizations to self-supporting, automation of production. Much attention was paid to the intensification of production, the acceleration of scientific and technological progress, the strengthening of the responsibility of personnel, organization and discipline, etc. In other words, a radical restructuring of the entire economy of the country was being prepared.

Fate gave Andropov a short time at the helm of the USSR. He was remembered by the people for cheap vodka (andropovka), raids on the streets in order to improve labor discipline. However, Andropov's influence on history our country is much wider. He wanted to change the socio-economic structure of the USSR, to carry out close integration with the West.

The problem was that any Russia interferes with the masters of the West. Therefore, the rulers of the West quite easily outplayed the "chicks of Andropov's nest", which was expressed in the 1991 disaster and subsequent events.

Interestingly, liberal Russia, built under Putin and Medvedev, has again tried to become part of Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok. This led to another natural collapse, the stages of which we observed in 2014–2022.

But the West does not need any Russia - neither socialist, nor liberal, pro-Western. Accordingly, the political and economic elite of Russia in this matrix will never be a full-fledged part of the global elite.

Either your own path, difficult, but your own, autocratic, Russian. When enemies hate, fear, but respect.

Or lackeys, like Pan Poroshenko and Zelensky, who are killing the country and people in the name of "freedom and democracy."

There is no other way.
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  1. +2
    12 November 2022 06: 23
    A passionate, qualified and competitive minority was implied
    I thought that it would be technocrats, but what kind of technocrats from Gorbachev and Ryzhkov? Well, this "competitiveness" is not a sign of intelligence. Not even in a quilted jacket, but in the most luxurious fur coat, it is much worse to run than in a T-shirt with shorts and under doping ... And Russia cannot survive without a quilted jacket.
    1. +3
      12 November 2022 06: 43
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      I thought that it would be technocrats, but what kind of technocrats from Gorbachev and Ryzhkov?

      And he did not bet on them, as on techies. He was attracted by the passionarity (passionarity is an irresistible inner desire for activity aimed at changing one's life, the environment) of these and other people. Or will you deny that in the first weeks of Gorbachev's rule, the people thought: "Here ... Finally" (however, the same thoughts arose when the drunk changed)? After that, it became clear that, apart from chatter, something needs to be done ...
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Well, this "competitiveness" is not a sign of intelligence.

      Here this concept is more suitable for the law of survival in the jungle. It meant that the strongest will be determined in the struggle ...
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Not even in a quilted jacket, but in the most luxurious fur coat, it is much worse to run than in a T-shirt with shorts and under doping ... And Russia cannot survive without a quilted jacket.

      Where did it stick to the article? It is clear that Russia cannot compete with Argentina in the production of meat ... Only Argentina is not a competitor of Russia in the production of oil and gas ...
      1. +3
        12 November 2022 07: 22
        Quote: yuriy55
        He was attracted by the passionarity (passionarity is an irresistible inner desire for activity aimed at changing one's life, the environment) of these and other people.

        Have you personally talked to know about this? Well, it is highly desirable for a passionary to be qualified, as it turned out, so as not to make a fuss to the detriment of the country. Because passionarity for the sake of passionarity is not even monkey work, but worse, which Gorby showed.
        Quote: yuriy55
        Well, this "competitiveness" is not a sign of intelligence.

        Here this concept is more suitable for the law of survival in the jungle. It meant that the strongest will be determined in the struggle ...
        What jungle, what struggle? In the "jungle" of leadership, Gorby won, well done, "competitive" (appointed), but in the "jungle" of international relations and domestic politics? Merged the economy and the country.

        Quote: yuriy55
        Or will you deny that in the first weeks of Gorbachev's rule, the people thought: "Here ... Finally" (however, the same thoughts arose when the drunk changed)?
        This is somehow sideways to competitiveness and passionarity and qualifications as a manager? To balabolstvo direct, yes.



        Quote: yuriy55
        Not even in a quilted jacket, but in the most luxurious fur coat, it is much worse to run than in a T-shirt with shorts and under doping ... And Russia cannot survive without a quilted jacket.

        Where did it stick to the article? It is clear that Russia cannot compete with Argentina in the production of meat ... Only Argentina is not a competitor of Russia in the production of oil and gas ...
        How is Argentina related to Russia? Isn't it interesting to remember about Europe, the USA, Japan?
        1. +31
          12 November 2022 07: 30
          This article, kmk, should have begun with the words "I want to present my vision of Andropov's desires and aspirations", and not be presented as a proven fact.
          1. +18
            12 November 2022 07: 53
            I will add that even in the context of his vision, the author managed to pile up a bunch of his own contradictory conclusions.
            And yes, the theory of "convergence with the West" was presented to me in the course of the subject "scientific communism" in 1984 as an example of a hostile ideology. I would try to blurt out when someone was admitted to the party at the party commission that this is the line of the CPSU / Andropov ...
            1. +7
              12 November 2022 08: 55
              I would try to blurt out when someone was admitted to the party at the party commission that this is the line of the CPSU / Andropov ...
              laughing laughing laughing
            2. 0
              13 November 2022 06: 11
              Quote: Moore
              And yes, the theory of "convergence with the West" was presented to me in the course of the subject "scientific communism" in 1984 as an example of a hostile ideology.

              And I was taught at the lessons of scientific communism in Stankin that there is not much difference between Andropov, Chernenko and Gorbachev and their reforms. Each of them understands that the country, as it lived under Brezhnev, can no longer live, but not one of the general secretaries understood what to change and how to change. Therefore, all their manipulations are reduced to the search for some kind of doping, so that a simple person can work faster. Andropov tightened the discipline, Chernenko encouraged political education. Gorbachev was more active and quicker. At first, he also tried to tighten the nuts, but quickly realized that there was nowhere to tighten and hit in a different direction.
          2. +7
            12 November 2022 09: 40
            Quote: Mitroha
            This article, kmk, should have begun with the words "I want to present my vision of Andropov's desires and aspirations", and not be presented as a proven fact.

            This is Samsonov, he sometimes writes not such nonsense. request
            1. 0
              12 November 2022 21: 23
              How is it generally determined what will be published and what will not?
              1. 0
                12 November 2022 21: 49
                I didn't really go into this process. A set of some rules is on the site, if without violation, then put on display as an opinion or history and the like.
          3. +4
            12 November 2022 09: 48
            Quote: Mitroha
            This article, kmk, should have begun with the words "I want to present my vision of Andropov's desires and aspirations", and not be presented as a proven fact.

            hi I'm like Bondarchuk Jr.: "I take off my hat!" laughing
          4. +8
            12 November 2022 14: 23
            I DO NOT believe that Andropov planned to merge the USSR. Under him, modernization according to the Chinese version was waiting for us. Economic reforms under the watchful eye of the communists. The rest is Samsonov's conjectures.
            1. +3
              12 November 2022 21: 26
              Modernization according to the Chinese version, as it was started by Deng Xiaoping and continued by Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao, consisted in the liberalization of agriculture (they began to give land on long-term lease and tax money), the liberalization of trade and many industries (except for mining and trade in them, banks). BUT! under administrative control
            2. +1
              14 November 2022 16: 24
              Yeah, and that's why he promoted gorby and company.
            3. 0
              18 November 2022 18: 35
              In reality, we have experienced a tightening of the screws on discipline and no economic reform. So what Andropov wanted is unclear. He ruled too little.
          5. 0
            12 November 2022 19: 15
            Well, in the usual for this ... creator ... themes, his popularity rushed in search of what is there, behind the plinth .... From there grew ... a soulful theme .... And, kegebically with him, far removed from the name. But we're used to it wink
            Of course, Prooftsov for his .... ideas (because these are the ideas of the author)) somehow a little .... quite ... However, in the case of Yuri Vladimirovich, everything ... is not easy .... with the Proofers) )....
          6. +7
            12 November 2022 19: 27
            Quote: Mitroha
            This article, kmk, should have begun with the words "I want to present my vision of Andropov's desires and aspirations", and not be presented as a proven fact.

            Yes, I was also always surprised by the words of the authors: - "... he thought that ..." and similar phrases. How does the author know what Andropov thought? And no one, even close ones, could know this.
            1. +1
              13 November 2022 12: 30
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              Yes, I was also always surprised by the words of the authors: - "... he thought that ..."

              Maybe they learned from A. Rybakov? He, too, read thoughts through time and space ..
          7. +2
            13 November 2022 02: 03
            Author's vision:
            Either your way, difficult, but your own, autocratic, Russian.

            Yes, for some reason Yeltsin was bypassed in the article. And they fooled Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Andropov.
            Or lackeys, like Pan Poroshenko and Zelensky, who are killing the country and people in the name of "freedom and democracy."

            -- What is this all about? Muddy article.
          8. 0
            22 January 2023 13: 57
            You're right. Andropov actually developed his own plan until 1968. And it was surprisingly similar to the Dulles plan developed at the time to destroy the USSR. Find and read copies of the originals of this and that.
      2. +1
        12 November 2022 12: 27
        Quote: yuriy55
        Russia cannot compete with Argentina in meat production

        Well, yes, the Russian Federation has no place for paddocks, fields and fertilizers for fodder ...
        Oh, there is.
        1. +2
          12 November 2022 21: 28
          I was in Argentina. Animal husbandry there does not know winter, cattle are all the time grazing. It is cheaper, and as a result, the quality is disproportionately higher. Therefore, it is practically impossible to compete on an equal footing (without subsidies to our farmers or without duties). It is possible - but it is necessary to increase the current labor productivity at times.
          1. +1
            13 November 2022 09: 55
            Quote: Plover
            I was in Argentina. Animal husbandry there does not know winter, cattle are all the time grazing. It is cheaper, and as a result, the quality is disproportionately higher. Therefore, it is practically impossible to compete on an equal footing (without subsidies to our farmers or without duties).

            You are right, the cost of kg. beef in Argentina is much lower than, say, in the Kostroma region. But do not forget - "Across the sea, a heifer is a half, but transportation is expensive." Here, taking into account the delivery of Argentinean meat to Russia, the cost price will be equal to Kostroma meat. So, Russian meat can quite compete with Argentinean. Of course, if the Russian government is statesmen, and not ... in general, you understand.
            The strongest blow to the agriculture of the non-chernozem region was dealt by Khrushchev with his virgin lands. But it is the non-Black Earth region that can become the main meat producer in Russia.
            1. 0
              13 November 2022 11: 19
              Plus meat is still shit (dung) and milk (sometimes).
              It's also useful.
              1. 0
                13 November 2022 12: 35
                Manure cannot be obtained on an industrial scale, and it is inconvenient to work with it. Milk or meat - here you have to choose, since the technologies of work are not compatible.
                1. -1
                  13 November 2022 14: 05
                  Quote: Plover
                  Manure on an industrial scale cannot be obtained

                  Why so?
                  Quote: Plover
                  and it's hard to work with him

                  Why do you think so?
                  Work with manure is completely mechanized. From removal from the farm, to spreading on the field before plowing. It's better than filling the earth with chemistry.
                  1. 0
                    13 November 2022 16: 12
                    Because for a particular plant, it doesn’t matter what form the fertilizer came in, the plant will still take nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium. Modern agriculture requires very strict adherence to fertilizer norms in an hour. not only deficiency, but also excess can greatly affect the yield. In advanced farms, based on the analysis of soils and cultivated crops, the necessary fertilizers and their volumes are very accurately determined. Manure, alas, cannot give such stability on the scale of large lots. Moreover, depending on the season, the type of feed - the composition of the elements in the manure will be different. Add here that fresh manure is not very good to use (but I could be wrong here). Therefore, if we are fighting to increase labor productivity, manure on an industrial scale will lose to mineral fertilizers. Moreover, now it is possible to make "complex" fertilizers, when you do not need separately potash, separately phosphorus. Everything will be brought together into one composition, which is necessary for specific conditions, and everything can be added at a time.
                    1. +2
                      15 November 2022 13: 53
                      Quote: Plover

                      Because for a particular plant, it doesn’t matter what form the fertilizer came in, the plant will still take nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium.

                      If you look narrowly-specially, then you are right. What if it's wider?
                      You can see why a flat cutter is recommended instead of a plow. And not only to save the stubble. The fact is that in the upper layers of the soil there are microorganisms that are successfully destroyed like a mouldboard plow (which turns the soil over, driving the top layer down). so min. fertilizers. Unlike min. fertilizers, manure does not destroy microorganisms, but helps them in loosening the soil. And in loose soil it is easier to get oxygen, which is also necessary for plants and, therefore, microorganisms. The soil into which min. fertilizer becomes dense, not loose, and natural processes do not occur in it. Why before, ordinary bread, which our grandmothers baked at home, did not go stale for a week and was very tasty, although no whey, no milk, or anything else was added to it. Simply because grain, wheat or rye, was grown without the use of chemicals. fertilizers, because microorganisms, oxygen and organics introduced by manure were present in the soil.
                      Due to the fact that there is very little manure in relation to the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbfields, it is not possible to overdo it with it.
                      1. 0
                        15 November 2022 14: 44
                        If you look narrowly-specially, then you are right. What if it's wider?
                        I just look more broadly - modern management methods have allowed to increase productivity, which means they have reduced costs and increased productivity. You suggest taking a step back. Yes, more natural, but it has costs that society will not pay.
                        Simply because grain, wheat or rye, was grown without the use of chemicals. fertilizers, because microorganisms, oxygen and organics introduced by manure were present in the soil.

                        Are there any research papers on this issue? Or is it your opinion?
                        Due to the fact that there is very little manure in relation to the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbfields, it is not possible to overdo it with it.
                        It's not a question of "overdoing it". For modern management, predictability is important, because the harvest is now not actually sold, but a lot in advance. Organic fertilizers (manure, bird droppings, peat, silt, sawdust, compost) do not provide a stable composition of microcomponents (manure is not a "wunderwaffle" of fertilizers. Only manure will still not work) and stable supplies: now manure has been "produced" enough. And three months later - the disease in livestock and supplies fell. Manure is a good tool - but this, firstly, is a local story - no one will carry manure far, and our livestock regions can be many hundreds of kilometers away from large agro-regions. Secondly, this is a story for the "eco" program. Now there is a demand for these products, but again, this always goes hand in hand with local production.
                      2. 0
                        15 November 2022 16: 51
                        Quote: Plover
                        I just look more broadly - modern management methods have allowed to increase productivity, which means they have reduced costs and increased productivity. You

                        I can’t argue with this, but who told you that manure does not increase the yield? Tested by experience - 60c. wheat per hectare, without min. fertilizers. And, next to the field, with the use of mines. fertilizers, only a little more than 40 c. And, at the same time, the soil, its natural state, is preserved.
                        Yes, manure, today, does not solve the problem of productivity due to its smallness. The conclusion is that animal husbandry should go along with grain growing, as it was under our ancestors. Does this mean that I advocate a ban on mines. fertilizer? No way. But to introduce them into the soil, having previously carried out a chem. soil analysis, it is necessary, as it were, in addition to manure. Not instead of him.
                        With everything else in your post, I agree. And the "case of livestock", although it is unlikely to be massive in our time, and most importantly, the weather conditions can be deadly for the crop. It has been said that we are in a zone of risky farming, and our soils are not the best, in comparison with the same Zap. Heb. hi
            2. -1
              13 November 2022 12: 07
              It depends what you consider meat. I know people who only eat marbled beef. The rest - well, such, in their opinion, it is better then not to eat meat at all. Actually, domestic meat of comparable quality, even taking into account the Argentine delivery shoulder, will be more expensive. But there are other aspects as well. Animal husbandry in itself is not so environmentally friendly. Looking to the future, is it necessary to develop it? Maybe it makes sense to move towards a vegetable substitute? Or, in China, I had a chance to try the “meat” of a startup from locusts. The guys grow locusts, and then with the help of a cunning tech. process and additives (synthesized, but exclusively from natural ingredients) make "meat". Can't distinguish at all. Yes, as long as it is more expensive than natural. But this is a solvable issue and most importantly, production can be easily scaled up.
              1. +1
                13 November 2022 14: 08
                Quote: Plover

                It depends what you consider meat. I know people who only eat marbled beef.

                I know people who don't eat meat at all. We don't eat meat now, do we?
                1. 0
                  13 November 2022 15: 57
                  The question was not about that, but about competitiveness with respect to the Argentinean product. Do you think those who choose by price will ever buy meat from Argentina? No, they supply a product of a completely different range.
              2. +1
                13 November 2022 14: 14
                Well, the aesthetic pedrils don't get along with me (I really like to tell the truth in person, which I suffer from).
                And strictly speaking, a deer or a lamb will be more interesting. And without showing off, especially the last one.
                1. 0
                  13 November 2022 17: 56
                  Well, "aesthetic", as you called it, is not always applicable to everything. You can, of course, like Neanderthals, make up your diet almost exclusively from animal protein, and then, yes, there will be no time for Argentine marbled beef. At the expense of the lamb - it is also different. In 2019, I had a chance to visit New Zealand and try a local representative there. What to say? Free grazing all year round on the grass decides.
                2. 0
                  15 November 2022 14: 02
                  Quote: Hitriy Zhuk

                  And strictly speaking, a deer or a lamb will be more interesting. And without showing off, especially the last one.

                  They don’t argue about tastes, but having tried: pork, veal, beef, horse meat, camel meat, rabbit, hare, roe deer, goat, lamb, nutria, elk, I prefer pork and veal. From poultry chicken and turkey. The Indian is good too.
      3. +1
        12 November 2022 15: 37
        Quote: yuriy55
        It is clear that Russia cannot compete with Argentina in meat production...

        This is other things being equal. And so it can.
    2. +3
      12 November 2022 07: 04
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      I thought that it would be technocrats, but what kind of technocrats from Gorbachev and Ryzhkov?

      Gorbachev is an ordinary party talker.
      And about Ryzhkov, you can say that he is a technocrat ...
      1. +3
        12 November 2022 07: 25
        Quote: Luminman
        And about Ryzhkov, you can say that he is a technocrat ...

        It is possible, but did not pull, perhaps for health reasons. And Gorby overpowered him like a balabol.
        1. Fat
          +6
          12 November 2022 13: 20
          Cynical skin - this Ryzhkov. He took and killed the CMEA and the "transferable ruble" in one fell swoop. Probably out of a big mind, he technocratized all trade inside the "social camp" under the hard currency. So "sausages cf ..." ended up in a free voyage from the USSR. It is clear that in the end the sausages were nailed to the EU. No.
    3. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  2. +8
    12 November 2022 06: 25
    Andropov's rule for two years a priori could not change anything ... Seventy years for a politician of his level is not such a big age. It is not known what undermined his health, but the hastily recruited team absorbed scoundrels for whom selfish interests were higher than state interests (I still can’t understand why Gorbachev and Shevardnadze were not convicted for surrendering Russian territories to the Americans).
    Among the acquaintances there were many who regretted his death, saying - there was not enough time ...
    I have a guess, but I'll keep it to myself. From the post-Brezhnev era, this head of state is perhaps the prettiest of all.
    1. -1
      12 November 2022 16: 43
      Handsome ... Wife on drugs and in a fool, you know less, you sleep better ...
    2. +2
      13 November 2022 10: 05
      Quote: yuriy55

      I have a guess, but I'll keep it to myself. From the post-Brezhnev era, this head of state is perhaps the prettiest of all.

      This is because you know little about Andropov. It was he who continued the work of Khrushchev to curtail the project of the USSR. He and no one else, knowing about the betrayal of Yakovlev, forbade the KGB to touch him. And all his attempts with "discipline" are nothing more than dust in the eyes
      1. 0
        13 November 2022 11: 06
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        This is because you know little about Andropov.

        Probably little...
        But it was enough for me to draw conclusions:
        Quote: yuriy55
        From the post-Brezhnev era, this head of state is perhaps the prettiest of all.

        Then you tell me who was better after 10.10.1982/XNUMX/XNUMX...
        1. 0
          13 November 2022 14: 11
          Quote: yuriy55
          Then you tell me who was better after 10.10.1982/XNUMX/XNUMX.

          I suggest no one. Everything just gets worse. But this does not mean that Brezhnev is the pinnacle.
  3. +9
    12 November 2022 06: 28
    At the second stage of perestroika, new faces came to power - "liberals". They were found, led and moved up. Leaders such as Gorbachev, Shevardnadze, Ligachev and others, who eventually killed the Soviet civilization.

    Ligachev, in my opinion, did not pull on a "liberal".
    An ardent Stalinist.
    1. 0
      13 November 2022 06: 24
      Quote: Architect
      Ligachev, in my opinion, did not pull on a "liberal".
      An ardent Stalinist.

      Ligachev moved his son to the cooperators and actively supported the undertakings of the cooperators. He was a rather intelligent communist, but propaganda sculpted him like a Stalinist. In my opinion, perestroika was conceived in the bowels of the KGB, and it was this organization that carried it out along with the collapse of the USSR. It's just that the republican bodies of the KGB from the very beginning headed for the branches of their republics. In Crimea, I talked with Crimean Tatars about the history of their return to Crimea. My counterpart received on an official letterhead an offer to return to the Crimea from Central Asia with a promise to provide housing and compensation for resettlement expenses. Arriving in Crimea, he learned that the local authorities had never heard of such a program and would not compensate him for anything. But the people who sent him the letter knew his address in Central Asia and the place where his father was deported from. It is problematic for the CIA and MI6 to obtain such information. As I understand it, Andropov took the children of intelligence officers, not production workers, as his assistants.
  4. 0
    12 November 2022 06: 34
    Yes, you will not say anything, it was conceived beautifully. It ended, however, corny - Chubais ...
    1. +2
      12 November 2022 07: 02
      It ended, however, corny - Chubais

      Chubais, however, finished well. Lives happily ever after on the Mediterranean coast...
      1. 0
        13 November 2022 06: 27
        Quote: Luminman
        Chubais, however, finished well.

        He could develop his native country and have more. But this type preferred to parasitize at the expense of his native people. In the West, no one will allow him to parasitize at the expense of the West. And the local system does not allow the descendants and relatives of rich and influential people to show off like Ksyusha Sobchak and her mother do in Russia.
        1. +1
          13 November 2022 10: 10
          Quote: gsev

          Chubais, however, finished well.

          He could develop his native country and have more.

          Do you think that he, if desired, would have had enough intelligence? Do not forget - there is no need to destroy a great mind, the "impure" helps the destroyer. I am sure that the redhead did not ascend to these heights with his mind.
  5. +4
    12 November 2022 06: 43
    I wrote an essay about him at the exam at the school. The teacher was shocked when, when asked about whom I would write an essay on the topic "Great people of the 20th century", he answered: about Andropov (2005))). And a joke of fate: in recent years, I, like Yuri Vladimirovich, live off an artificial kidney
  6. -2
    12 November 2022 06: 54
    I remember Andropovka. It is a pity that the collective farmer Misha did not follow his path. He ruined such a country ... Now the "Petersburg" people have taken on all the burden. Either Kherson will be taken, then they will leave. Strategists.
    Peace for everyone. ✌️
    1. +1
      12 November 2022 16: 54
      Quote: Fon Elia
      Either Kherson will be taken, then they will leave. Strategists.

      "Does it spin in a turn,
      Wrap it up in a whirlpool -
      everything will get better
      I undress, then I dress,
      I admire myself in the water -
      I like it very much." --- Strategists
  7. +8
    12 November 2022 07: 00
    He wanted to change the socio-economic structure of the USSR, to carry out close integration with the West

    Yes, he did not want to change any system.
    Just restore elementary order in the country ...
    1. +1
      13 November 2022 10: 14
      Quote: Luminman

      Yes, he did not want to change any system.
      Just restore elementary order in the country ...

      And for this, knowing this, he left the CIA agent Yakovlev in the upper echelons of power. And not only him.
  8. +10
    12 November 2022 07: 02
    It is not clear why the author is sure that Andropov's goal was to put the USSR under the West, and not to build it into the market, leaving his orders inside the country and basic values, well, like what China is now being squealedly praised for ... It is absolutely incomprehensible to me. And again, the tough fight against unearned income under Andropov and even the demonstrative bourgeoisie under the late Brezhnev - says the exact opposite of what the author said. All these figures of the 90s are not even Brezhnev’s party nomenclature repainted, and he himself looked more like a Saudi sheikh at the end than the USSR Secretary General
    1. -1
      13 November 2022 10: 24
      Quote from Bingo
      It is not clear why the author is sure that Andropov's goal was to put the USSR under the West, and not to build it into the market, leaving his orders inside the country and basic values, well, like what China is now being squealedly praised for ... It is absolutely incomprehensible to me.

      You really didn't understand. The West and the US have been nurturing China precisely for its, China, future confrontation with us. If the West and the United States were afraid of China, and not the USSR, they would have helped Andropov to "build in" the USSR. And you think that Andropov did not understand this? Understood. And its goal is not to embed the USSR into the "market", but to destroy the Sov. authorities, as well as, as it turned out, the USSR.
  9. +7
    12 November 2022 07: 34
    In early March 1983, my colleague and I ended up in Moscow on a business trip. On the nose of March 8, we had to buy gifts for our wives, so one day we agreed with him, I stayed at work, and he, at about 10 o'clock in the morning, went to the Central Department Store to buy French perfume "Diorella" for himself and for me. And he was "grabbed" there, near the perfumery.
    What do you do in the store during business hours?
    - I'm buying a gift for my wife, I'm in Moscow on a business trip.
    - Present your travel document
    -Please"
    AND SLAP! They put a bold pink stamp on the travel allowance "DO NOT PAY FOR THE BUSINESS TRAVEL" !!!!
    This is how Yuri Andreevich fought to strengthen socialism.
    ps Fortunately, for every "Andropov" in the USSR there was a "left-handed bolt".
    Our Moscow "owners" put their stamp "arrived / departed" on a CLEAN travel form, but we already re-registered it at home "as it should"
    wassat drinks
    1. Eug
      +2
      12 November 2022 08: 24
      This was not only in Moscow. My friend and I were sent by the trade union committee of the institute to the regional committee of the trade union for I don’t remember what event, there was a “window” for classes, and before the visit we decided to go to the cinema ... 10 minutes after the start of the session, the light was turned on in the hall and began to check the documents . There were 10-12 people in the hall, they took 7! But we "bounced back", although the paper definitely came to the institute. it
      was in Kharkov.
    2. +4
      12 November 2022 13: 43
      But I remember 1984, the second half of April. I was on a business trip in Moscow. We still had snow in Siberia, and in Moscow the flowers planted on the lawns were already blooming. My friend and I on Saturday (we had a business trip for 10 days) had a wonderful lunch in Prague, tasted and compared Absheron and decent whiskey. We ate and came to the conclusion that Absheron is no worse. Then we went by metro to VDNKh - to take a walk and "catch up".
      We started with a mug of not very good beer from vending machines (then there were also such beers, I remember 0,5 liters, a mug, 20 kopecks). We walked. We ate a very tasty Lyulya-kebab with cognac. We got to the "winemaking" pavilion for a tasting session - great! Finished the tour in a pub on the shore of the pond. Under beer and shrimps.
      Then VDNH was a wonderful park - a place of relaxation with informative expositions, entertainment, cafes, etc. Then, in the post-reform period, for a decade and a half it became just a big flea market ...
      And then, a few days later, a decree on the anti-alcohol campaign came out ...
      Pavilion "Winemaking" closed...
      The collapse of the economy began ... with all the bends and cooperatives. And "perestroika".
      But Andropov has nothing to do with these outrages.
      1. +2
        12 November 2022 16: 42
        It was 1985, in 84 everything was still working, the fun began on the 20th of May 1985.
        1. +1
          13 November 2022 14: 32
          Yes, I was wrong! It was 1985.
          However, the essence of my comment does not change.
          And the "fun" began already on May 9th. I remember.
  10. +4
    12 November 2022 07: 44
    ... his own way, difficult, but his own, autocratic, Russian.

    No, author, the autocratic path is yours, not mine. I don't need any "autocracy".
    And the fact that the correct "Russian way" is autocracy is your sick fantasy, not mine.
    1. +2
      12 November 2022 21: 34
      The Russian way is democracy. There was a people's veche not only in Novgorod, and the princes in North-Eastern Rus', up to Alexander Nevsky, inclusive, at least listened to the opinion of the veche, and in most cases they fulfilled it. Away from sin.
      1. +2
        14 November 2022 08: 51
        In many cities of North-Eastern Rus', created on the initiative of the princes, the vecha was never convened. On the whole, they have always played a smaller role in the Northeast.
        1. 0
          14 November 2022 11: 38
          Yes, you are right - compared to "old" Russia, in the young North-Eastern, the value of the veche was many times less, because. the population often settled in an "empty" place owned by the prince. But people brought institutions with them.
  11. Eug
    +1
    12 November 2022 08: 18
    The lessons of that period would not hurt to learn the current leadership of Russia, dreaming of "partnership."
  12. +8
    12 November 2022 08: 54
    He was remembered by the people for cheap vodka (andropovka), raids on the streets in order to improve labor discipline.

    Yes, we are such a people, give us "Andropovka" and everything will be all right.

    Unfortunately, the author's version is completely devoid of confirmation in any documents.
    Andropov nowhere and never wrote about any "convergence", this is A. Sakharov about it.
    All the documents of the Andropov period on how to solve current problems and accelerate development, as it was understood on the verge of the end of the 70-80s of the twentieth century. Not in the 20s. XXI century What are Gorbachevs and Shevardnadze, the latter, as First Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party, fought against "corruption" in Georgia, and would have continued to do so if "Perestroika" had not taken place.
    The problems of the USSR lay on a different plane, but that's another story.
  13. +3
    12 November 2022 10: 14
    Now in hindsight, you can blame anyone you like and write whatever you want
    Another thing is that naive views, that someone, as in jokes, will make the country strong for us - this is just a template.
    No country in the world, and we, too, do not need strong neighbors and competitors. What, does Germany need a strong France? Why did they fight so much then? France - England? Why were they cut in the Hundred Years War and after? Russia - China? And why then did they grab land from him in the 19-20th century? China - Russia? Yeah, right now, they are also gradually grabbing the land back, the investments are minuscule, but they are driving the raw materials of our oligarchs.

    What the Author passes off as a win: "any Russia interferes with the masters of the West" is a common pattern, and the law of life at the same time. Nobody needs strong rivals and neighbors. It has long been known. And you can blame the West, the East, the South, the North, aliens, Masons, Jews, Bolsheviks or Atlanteans ...
    If only not at the Kremlin, its "effective managers" and a mirror ...
  14. +2
    12 November 2022 10: 39
    Even before becoming the General Secretary of the CPSU, Andropov, who headed the State Security Committee for a long time, did not make any efforts to return the status of an independent ministry, abolished by Khrushchev, to the KGB, when before Khrushchev there were the NKGB and the MGB. Moreover, when the KGB was led by Andropov, the entire main body of the country's security had the status of "a sleeve not sewn to a fur animal" - that is, under the Council of Ministers. All power structures had the status of ministries, the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR and the USSR Ministry of Defense, but the KGB was under the Council of Ministers. In fact, a state security body in any country should be so independent and independent that it could arrest and hand over to justice the highest state and military leaders for treason, corruption, etc. It was precisely because of the lack of independence that the Andropov KGB deigned to miss the formation and crawling into power not only of the main traitors Yakovlev, Gorbachev, Shevardnadze, but also traitors of a smaller caliber in the union republics, who were dizzy from the fact that the RUSSR rolled them around their necks with free subsidies, so they began to raise separatist sentiments in their republics even under Andropov. And what, the KGB under Andropov saw the danger that came from Yakovlev, Gorbachev, Shevardnadze, Kravchuk, Yeltsin, Landsbergis, Shushkevich, crawling into power? Moreover, the main traitor Gorbachev was found and promoted to power by Andropov himself, while still the chairman of the KGB.
    But the leaders of the republics of Central Asia were destroyed by Gorbachev.
    Gorbachev was simply infuriated by the fact that by the time Gorbachev came to power, he had at hand in Moscow the lovely separatist traitors Yakovlev, Shevardnadze and others, not far from Moscow, the separatist traitors Kravchuk, Ruutel, Shushkevich and Landsbergis were crawling into power or were already in power , but there were no separatist sentiments in the republics of Central Asia, for example, in the Uzbek SSR.
    This is thanks to the then leaders of the Uzbek SSR. So Gorbachev sent his faithful Gdlyan and Ivanov to him to remove and shoot those leaders, allegedly for postscripts.
    No one then asked Gorbachev that during the Second World War the Uzbek SSR accepted tens of millions of evacuees from Moscow and Leningrad and accepted them as their own, but if, let's say, the same number of Muscovites and Leningraders during the Second World War, let's say, had to to evacuate beloved Western Ukraine or the Baltic states to Gorbachev, then, I wonder how many of them would still be alive there?
    1. 0
      14 November 2022 17: 00
      From the end of the 70s, the KGB of the USSR under the Council of Ministers began to be called simply the KGB of the USSR. Both before and after the renaming, it was equated with the State Committee of the USSR.
  15. -8
    12 November 2022 10: 45
    Andropov is a systemic, very smart enemy. The real representative of the United States in the structures of the USSR. Initially, Kuuskinen took care of him in the authorities. And having already strengthened himself in power, he successfully opposed the creatures of Brezhnev. At the same time, he carefully promoted the idea of ​​training future perestroika economists: Chubais, Gaidar and others. A group of future reformers were trained in Switzerland at the suggestion of Andropov back in 1972. Communication and coordination of the KGB and CIA was carried out through Kalugin.
    1. +3
      12 November 2022 11: 20
      Quote from: navycat777
      Andropov is a systemic, very smart enemy.

      He is not an enemy and never has been, unlike Khrushchev. Andropov wanted to build his own model of the development of socialism, the same as Deng Xiaoping in China, only Deng was able to implement, and Andropov could not. In order to start the reforms, Andropov had to clean out the "Augean stables" - the party apparatus, as Stalin and Deng Xiaoping did.
      1. -1
        12 November 2022 11: 30
        That is, you are convinced that Chubais, Gaidar and others are the future builders of communism. Something just went wrong.. laughing
        1. Fat
          +2
          12 November 2022 13: 29
          hi The 1977 constitution went wrong... Art. 10-12. As an economic basis, the Constitution (Article 10) defined socialist ownership of the means of production in the form of state (nationwide) and collective-farm cooperative ownership.
          Uh-huh, industrial cooperatives, even Khrushchev brought them to zero, and collective farms purposefully pressed on the CX.
          1. 0
            14 November 2022 09: 02
            Formally, there were small industrial enterprises with a cooperative form of ownership after the liquidation of industrial cooperation. After all, there were enterprises that produced bakery products, soft drinks, etc., in the system of consumer cooperation. Plus, gold-mining artels have been preserved.
        2. +4
          12 November 2022 13: 47
          Quote from: navycat777
          That is, you are convinced that Chubais, Gaidar and others are the future builders of communism.

          They are just and under Andropov they were laboratory assistants and graduate students, or, more simply, rubbish.
      2. +2
        13 November 2022 12: 43
        Quote: tihonmarine
        He is not an enemy and never has been, unlike Khrushchev.

        Khrushchev (like Gorbachev) are not enemies - they are worse. These are narrow-minded, but active individuals used by the environment as a cover for their donations ..
      3. +1
        14 November 2022 08: 57
        With the exception of the members of the "gang of four", all other figures of Mao's times lived well to a ripe old age, enjoying honor and respect. The same Hua Guofeng, having lost in the struggle for power to Deng Xiaoping, nevertheless, constantly sat on the presidiums of various events, was considered a respected veteran of the party.
  16. +8
    12 November 2022 10: 53
    Afftap can drip on the brains of young people. And we, those who were already at a conscious age, remember.
    We remember the shortage of meat and dairy products even in Leningrad, starting almost immediately after the Olympics and until a little later than Brezhnev's death. And after a couple of months of Andropov's work to restore elementary order in the country and, in particular, in the economy, everything seemed to miraculously appear on the shelves. Zhiguli, except for particularly prestigious models, could be purchased without a queue, just bring money and a petition from the "triangle" from your place of work. And the Muscovites and the Cossacks offered to pay, I don’t remember for how many years. Transport began to run more regularly. Housing construction accelerated. The economy began to develop. As for housing construction and the economy as a whole, these are not even my non-professional observations, but what a political lecturer told us, just glowing with pride, shortly before Andropov’s death in 1984. It’s a pity that Andropov was given little time, maybe he, unlike Mishan Marked , and would cope with the reforms. Deng Xiaoping did it in China.
    1. +2
      14 November 2022 09: 06
      It is interesting, by the way, that Deng in the PRC was one of the initiators of all sorts of foolishness during the period of the Great Leap Forward. But from the end of the 70s, he began to pursue a completely reasonable course. Although ill-wishers claimed that in fact the reforms were conceived by Zhou Enlai.
  17. +5
    12 November 2022 11: 08
    The West only needs a colony, the wealth of Russia, sources of cheap raw materials, labor and a market for its products.

    This should be instilled in every Russian, every Russian from the cradle.
    Until one and all understand that the West and its civilization is an enemy of Russian civilization, its people and faith. Without this, Russia will not exist.
    A good visual example is the outskirts.
  18. +1
    12 November 2022 12: 11
    A question to fill in: how does the author know the "Andropov plan"? And if Andropov himself is part of someone's plan? And then - everything worked out! The KGB did destroy the world socialist system.
  19. +3
    12 November 2022 12: 27
    Andropov’s thinking is greatly exaggerated by the author - he didn’t want anything global, he simply lacked global strategic thinking, a witness to this is the degradation of the KGB and the staff of the committee, the passer-by and the rise in the party of outright crooks and traitors (ideological control over the KGB). He tritely wanted to restore order in a loose country and implement what he, as the head of the KGB, was not allowed to do - and the way he saw it.
  20. +2
    12 November 2022 12: 27
    And yet the United States did not admit who was the mole in power. Many will think that labeled. But labeled is just a derivative of betrayal.
    1. +1
      13 November 2022 16: 47
      Most likely, after the death of Stalin and the execution of Beria, the top of the CPSU and the KGB decided the question of how to transfer power to children. The "theory of convergence", "peaceful coexistence", the rejection of the class struggle, "the most complete satisfaction of the demands of the working people" were adopted.
      It seems that Andropov, who acted through Pitovranov, and Kosygin, through his son-in-law Gvishiani, became important movers of "convergence". Foreign trade relations and the Club of Rome were used to legalize contacts. You can find a photograph showing Kosygin and his daughter (translator) together with Queen Elizabeth, who died during the brief premiership of Liz Truss.
      By the way, during the NEP, Kosygin managed to become a big businessman, but he had to hand over a piece of gold in exchange for a career as a Stalinist people's commissar.
      1. 0
        13 November 2022 17: 16
        Kosygin and his daughter (translator) together with Queen Elizabeth, who died during the brief premiership of Liz Truss
        I don't know if he died in 1980.
        There is no foreign policy in his biography.
        1. +1
          14 November 2022 09: 14
          I do not agree with the comments of your interlocutor in many respects. But, I must say that Kosygin, as the Chairman of the Council of Ministers, often made visits to foreign countries, negotiated. In the 60s, Brezhnev mostly traveled to the socialist countries, while Kosygin made visits to the capitalist states. In general, if you look at the Soviet press, you can see that until the end of the 60s, Brezhnev and Kosygin were perceived as almost equal. The clear dominance of Brezhnev began in the early 70s. But Kosygin still remained an influential figure.
        2. +2
          15 November 2022 23: 57
          Kosygin or Andropov personally could not participate in such cases. All contacts through the Club of Rome are his son-in-law Gvishiani. Andropov acted through Pitovranov and the Ministry of Foreign Trade. Kuusinen is also a dark horse, a Cominternist. In general, the Finns (and the Swedes) played a huge role in the defeat of Russia, the overthrow of the monarchy. Stalin did not just defeat the Comintern. But Kuusinen survived. Read more. But no one will give you the whole truth on a silver platter.
  21. -4
    12 November 2022 12: 32
    Quote: iouris
    A question to fill in: how does the author know the "Andropov plan"? And if Andropov himself is part of someone's plan?

    The author could not get away from the point of view of the serf of the 18th century: "The Red Master did a trick and did something wrong."
    There was such a drawing in biology textbooks - "tailed boy", as an example of atavism. These "tails" peek out from almost all authors.

    In fact, I believe that it was not Andropov or even the CIA who killed the CPSU. Everything was gone and sickeningly bad. No spy romanticism.

    What, in theory, should have been saved was the democratic charter, according to which all positions in the CPSU were elected and accountable.

    In the conditions of the "tailed" - semi-feudal psychology of rank-and-file members of the party, all elections were conducted there, like the elections of Tsar Michael in the 17th century.

    And they joined the party not to fight for the good of the people, but to enter the circle of those close to the authorities. To make stealing easier. And plundered. Everything turned out well, what REALLY wanted, that's what they achieved.
    1. +1
      16 November 2022 00: 04
      Nonsense. You do not understand the ideological essence of the CPSU after Stalin. The idea of ​​the dictatorship of the proletariat was abandoned.
      Regarding theft - it's gone. Yes, some (very few) used their official position to obtain some "benefits". There were at least 10 million members of the CPSU. If everyone stole ... But how many were built, what level the country had reached!
      But this does not go to any comparison with the scale of today's robbery of the people by a bunch of rich people. What did they give? A great power cannot invade its territory.
  22. +4
    12 November 2022 12: 51
    "It was planned to carry out a massive modernization of production, transfer of enterprises and organizations to self-support, automation of production. Much attention was paid to the intensification of production, the acceleration of scientific and technological progress, the strengthening of personnel responsibility, organization and discipline, etc. That is, a radical restructuring of the entire economy of the country was being prepared. "
    So it's great!!!
    And what does integration with the West have to do with it!??
    It was relevant then and very relevant now! Regardless of the WEST!
    No INTEGRATION...
    As for Ligachev, he is not a Westerner at all. Classic Soviet party bureaucrat. And, stubborn.
    But it seems to be honest. All the accusations against him in the early 90s fell apart ...
    The obvious, negative remains - his fanaticism in a stupid anti-alcohol company!
    He is probably an example of personnel selection from the famous books "Physicists are joking" and the sequel. The person was competent in previous positions, for example, the construction of Akademgorodok, the party head of the Tomsk region. And then, having risen to the heights of the CPSU, he turned out to be, to put it mildly, not very good, since he reached the level of "incompetence"!
    1. +2
      12 November 2022 18: 59
      Ligachev, as far as I remember, was the antipode of Shevardnadze Yavlinsky and Yeltsin
      1. +1
        14 November 2022 09: 18
        But, unfortunately, it was he who contributed to Yeltsin's career growth and his transfer to Moscow. In general, several first secretaries of the Sverdlovsk regional committee in the 50-80s. became secretaries of the Central Committee. The region is industrially powerful.
  23. +4
    12 November 2022 13: 47
    Samsonov, as always, excelled. Sucking out of the finger "grandiose conclusions." The author, read at least the work of Spiuyn "The Brezhnev Party" and "The Poliburo and the Secretariat of the Central Committee of the CPSU 1945-1985".
    1. +2
      14 November 2022 09: 20
      The works of Spitsyn, certainly interesting, should also be treated critically. There is a clear touch of subjectivity and publicism.
  24. -3
    12 November 2022 15: 47
    Lord! What did a Russian citizen have under Soviet rule? Mr. Citizen did not have a damn thing during the Soviet era! And now the people, Mr. Russia, have two, three times more!
    1. 0
      12 November 2022 18: 56
      It is strange that they are minus, except for calmness and some kind of housing, the Soviet people really had almost nothing.
      1. +1
        14 November 2022 09: 23
        So now, apart from housing, cars, computers, gadgets and household items, most people in our country and in the West have nothing else. Businessmen do not make up the majority of the population anywhere.
        1. +1
          14 November 2022 19: 13
          In general, the possession of all of the above is the life of 90 percent of the population. In the 80s you just can't buy it. They came to us in Moscow for glue and audio cassettes, can you imagine this now?
  25. +1
    12 November 2022 15: 48
    I don’t see a collapse: he destroyed the USSR and made the billionaires and Zionists prosper - he achieved his goal by hiding his personal data ... THIS IS THE ORIGINAL ENEMY
  26. +1
    12 November 2022 15: 57
    All arguments on the topic if yes if only ... All empires that had national-territorial division could only exist by waging victorious wars! It was the only ideological basis for their existence. Read the history of all empires existing on Earth. National-territorial administrative division is a time bomb. And now we are witnessing the beginning of the collapse of the largest empire in the history of mankind - the EEC, where the peoples and the ruler have completely different vital interests and priorities! The USSR was doomed to collapse since 1922.
    1. 0
      14 November 2022 09: 31
      In India, most of the country is divided according to ethno-linguistic principle. As long as the central government is strong, nothing particularly threatens its unity. In the USSR, it was not only the very principle of national-territorial division, but also the artificiality of administrative boundaries. Our national-territorial division in many cases did not correspond to the real areas of settlement of ethnic groups. In fact, this principle was also often violated, including for objective reasons. In many territories of the USSR, ethnic groups lived in stripes, the population was strongly mixed. Many territories with an initial predominance of the Russian population ended up either as part of other union republics, or as part of the internal autonomous republics and autonomous regions of the RSFSR.
  27. +3
    12 November 2022 17: 27
    By the early 1980s, it was obvious that it was impossible to live like this any longer. Brezhnev's "golden stagnation", which gave so much to the common Soviet man and allowed the nomenklatura to rest on its laurels, is over. The construction of communism, in essence, has already been abandoned. It seemed that the USSR was beginning to lag behind the capitalist countries of the West. In this situation, the Soviet world was doomed to collapse and absorption by the West.

    A set of at least controversial statements that are not substantiated in any way and have not been proven in any way.
  28. +6
    12 November 2022 17: 43
    The Union had to seem like a mighty giant - military and economic

    And he wasn't? It just seemed, right?
  29. +3
    12 November 2022 17: 48
    The whole article is a set of fantasies of the author.
    It would be very interesting to invite him to provide a source base for each paragraph. It is a pity that the format of this site does not imply this.
    It remains only to hope for the reaction of the author to the comment. But hope, alas, is weak.
  30. +3
    12 November 2022 18: 16
    A dead lion is easy to kick. Who knows how it would have ended if Andropov had lasted another five years... I remember how upset school teachers were when they announced the death of the General Secretary. In the short time of his "reign" he managed to give hope to the people for changes in life. And how Chernenko was piled up, everything immediately became clear even to me, a high school student.
    1. 0
      13 November 2022 02: 14
      I remember well that when Chernenko was “piled up” and he, choking from asthma, began to push his opening speech, many shook their heads disapprovingly: “Isn’t it too early to take down the mourning flags after the death of the first secretary?”
  31. 0
    12 November 2022 18: 53
    The collapse was laid not in the 84th, but in the 70s, when the USSR did not radically solve problems, but flooded them with petrodollars. The USSR / Russia is a hyper-complex country that has a lot of enemies; only a few can manage such a country with a profit.
  32. 0
    12 November 2022 19: 01
    Such changes that the USSR needed could not be carried out at such an age and with the same health as Andropov
    1. +2
      14 November 2022 09: 33
      He died at the age of 69. Not such a big age. But his health was really poor in the last years of his life.
  33. +3
    12 November 2022 19: 31
    Quote: t200404
    It is strange that they are minus, except for calmness and some kind of housing, the Soviet people really had almost nothing.

    I had the opportunity to get any job in the specialty that generally existed in the world at that time. And not just a programmer and a shit carrier.
    Housing since the early 60s has been built on the order of a trillion m2. A cooperative three-ruble note in the 80s cost about 10 thousand rubles. And about that much in bucks. The rating of living standards by country in 1988 was number 26 in the USSR. And now it is the level of Eastern Europe. Russia in 2020 was below 60.

    You were swindled like suckers. And they did it right. But it would also be necessary not so, but in the way you deserve.
  34. +1
    12 November 2022 20: 42
    Andropov, fosterling of the Finnish Judas Kuusinen...
    he came to the KGB from the Central Committee - he was sent as a specialist to clean everything there for the needs of werewolves ...
    since 1968 he was engaged in the collapse of the KGB ...
    it was his birds, in the 80s, who protected the coup ...
    1. -1
      14 November 2022 09: 35
      You have read mythologized literature. Kuusinen was a normal person and a communist, with a considerable intellect.
      1. +1
        14 November 2022 20: 05
        and after such a statement you are talking about myths ... :)
        study the docks, memoirs ...
  35. +1
    12 November 2022 21: 36
    Oh, those plans... "Putin's Plan", "Andropov's Plan"... no matter how the word "plan" is discredited to the level of the word "democracy".
  36. +1
    12 November 2022 21: 59
    Quote: alekc73
    I DO NOT believe that Andropov planned to merge the USSR. Under him, modernization according to the Chinese version was waiting for us. Economic reforms under the watchful eye of the communists. The rest is Samsonov's conjectures.

    Compared the ass with a finger. The GDP of the USSR in 1980 was the second in the world at $2257 billion. China 304.
    1. +1
      14 November 2022 09: 39
      Where is the data from? We were in second place in the world in terms of industrial production. But, due to the underdevelopment of the financial and speculative sector and the service sector, which make up a significant part of the GDP of Western countries, I do not think that we were in second place in terms of GDP.
  37. +1
    12 November 2022 22: 01
    Quote: t200404
    Ligachev, as far as I remember, was the antipode of Shevardnadze Yavlinsky and Yeltsin

    No. Worked in tandem with Gorbachev.
    1. 0
      14 November 2022 09: 40
      Their paths diverged in 1989-1990.
  38. -1
    13 November 2022 02: 45
    A very controversial article. In addition, it does not contain a mention of one of the main intentions of Yu. V. Andropov - the administrative-regional restructuring of the country on the principle of economic zoning instead of national-territorial division. The fact that the national republics are regions with a potential (and legislative-constitutional) possibility of separation from the USSR was well known to all Soviet rulers, starting with Lenin. Even the leader of the world proletariat spoke about this: “Yes, we have states within a state, but we promised these national outskirts of national autonomy with respect for their national traditions and their mentality. And they believed us. They are led by experienced old Bolsheviks - internationalists and, hopefully, they will not allow any nationalist rabble to triumph. Perhaps the plans for the prevailing economic zoning would have been implemented in the 20s and early 30s, but certainly not in the Brezhnev and Andropov times. When powerful clans of the party-economic elite had already formed in the republics, which became the de facto masters in their territories and which subsequently played a major role in separating from the USSR, when the communist ideology turned into a ballast for the newly-minted Soviet bourgeoisie, preventing personal enrichment and prosperity, when Soviet propaganda became resolutely lose to the western.
    1. 0
      14 November 2022 09: 49
      There is no documentary evidence to support the idea of ​​abandoning the national-territorial division. Moreover, it was during this period that a mass of articles extolling him was published. The only thing is that in the early 80s, a book by Professor Khorev of Moscow State University was published, quite interesting, in which the need to change the administrative-territorial division of the largest republic, the RSFSR, was justified. At the same time, Khorev considered the administrative division of the Byelorussian SSR to be almost ideal. He proposed to enlarge the territories and regions of the RSFSR, especially in Central Russia and the Far East, and also to transform part of the small ASSRs into autonomous regions within large territories. As far as I remember, it was proposed to leave the status of the ASSR only for Tatarstan, Bashkiria, Dagestan and Yakutia. Plus, he proposed to recreate the district level of territorial division in the enlarged territories and regions. But he underestimated the complexity of the national question in the North Caucasus. In particular, he proposed to make the Chechen-Ingush Republic an autonomous region within a larger region.
  39. +1
    13 November 2022 06: 57
    The whole country looked up to the leaders. Stalin smoked, the whole country smoked. Khrushchev didn't smoke—smokers lined up for tobacco. They studied the works, but the products were real. Medicines in faded packages cost a penny, but how they helped! As Arkady Raikin said - "The time was vile, but there was fish." What did we take from the USSR, except for missiles and the remaining fleet? This is mercantile rudeness. It thrives in politics. True, it is not in stores. Pseudo-products, pseudo-drugs inspire us that they were produced for the sake of our health. Previously, they laughed at penny dumplings. Now these are very expensive. I wonder whose works our children and grandchildren will study? And while telling jokes.
  40. +3
    13 November 2022 10: 16
    The author gives wishful thinking. Andropov was in power for a whole year, two months and 28 days. At the same time, in the first months, as I understand it, there are undercover squabbles, intrigues, a struggle for power and the establishment of one's own power. This is in any country under any government, when one leader is replaced by another. So, while holding the post of chief secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU, Andropov, most likely, could not seriously influence the policy and the future fate of the USSR. And what the author attributes to Andropov (liberalism, the desire to put the USSR under the West) was not observed in Andropov in the past. Seeing the Brezhnev stagnation, Andropov began to take certain steps to fight this or that thing and, quite possibly, wanted to follow the Chinese model, which is so praised here by many. But this, again, is from the realm of speculation, since it is difficult to say something without being at the helm for at least 3-4 years.

    An example is the discrepancy between the thoughts of the author of the article and what he attributes to Andropov with reality.
    Eduard Shevernadze was appointed First Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Georgia on September 29, 1972, long before the appointment of Andropov, even under Brezhnev, under whom Shevernadze led Georgia for another 7 years.
    1. 0
      14 November 2022 09: 53
      By the way, it was Andropov during Khrushchev's time, when he was secretary of the Central Committee, who criticized Maoism almost more often than other leaders of the USSR. But when he became General Secretary, relations with China began to improve under him.
    2. 0
      15 November 2022 09: 45
      Shevernadze ruled Georgia for another 7 years

      Hastily made a mistake in the calculations. At the time of Andropov's appointment as Secretary General, Shevernadze had been leading Georgia not for 7, but for about 10 years.
  41. 0
    13 November 2022 14: 33
    Russia has its own path, autocratic Russian... The main thing is not to turn off it!
  42. 0
    14 November 2022 04: 05
    And why is everyone so insistently repeating that Russia has an autocratic path? Isn't this the idea of ​​the Romanovs to destroy what was allegedly created by the Tatar-Mongol yoke?
    1. +1
      14 November 2022 09: 55
      In general, Ivan the Third promoted the idea of ​​autocracy, and his son Vasily the Third, and his grandson Ivan the Terrible. True, initially, a slightly different meaning was put into the concept of autocracy than in the 19th and early 20th centuries.
  43. +2
    14 November 2022 12: 54
    Either your own path, difficult, but your own, autocratic, Russian. When enemies hate, fear, but respect.

    It would be nice not to be autocratic, but simply original. Our fate is too important to be left to the autocrats. Peter 1 selflessly turned off our Russian path. Since then, we have been catching up and overtaking everything along a foreign, western road. And the Bolsheviks with their Western European Marxism and Putin with his squeaky "multipolar world" are the essence of one field of berries. All of them did not know how to make their own path, but could only follow the West.
  44. +1
    14 November 2022 13: 24
    Quote: Dummy
    And why is everyone so insistently repeating that Russia has an autocratic path? Isn't this the idea of ​​the Romanovs to destroy what was allegedly created by the Tatar-Mongol yoke?

    Because it is not democracy to offer to a society that elects presidents for life, just as it elected Mikhail Romanov in the 17th century. It is convenient for the ruling, because. which excludes any control over them from within. And does not interfere with control from the outside. There was just a cooperative "Lake", but it became the anointed of God, go not bad!
  45. -1
    15 November 2022 01: 21
    By the time Brezhnev came to power, "above" they already poorly understood why we needed an external "patchwork quilt" and even less soared about the fact that it would even partially pay off. Having dragged all the rudders and levers "to the very top", these people had no idea what to press and turn so that we could create and develop on a comparable scale a quality product similar to the Western one. This happens when a person who is not distinguished by intelligence and ingenuity tries to control EVERYTHING, but if such people are just wagons, then it will naturally "take" to the address. El Capitano Iosif Vissarionovich gave these people (the party elite) a country in which he conducted every fart and sneeze, prudently cleaning out before that everything that was more or less understanding without dogmatics - Khrushchev had the last chance to do something for the better, after him the system was already " zadubela" and began to stupidly self-replicate in its least successful iteration in terms of organization.
  46. +1
    15 November 2022 14: 20
    You are forgetting something important to us. Gorbachev and his gang sacrificed their satellites, in particular the Warsaw Pact countries. Overnight, Gorbachev canceled the Warsaw Pact. A “sham philosopher” suddenly appeared at the head of the state, and the disappointment of most leaders turned into Russophobia. I don't like it, but our people no longer consider Russia a strong Slavic state. You must prove it to us. The fact that there are enemy states around you is the work of Russian politicians, you completely forgot about us, you didn’t need us, so each state decides in its own way in order to preserve its state. am
  47. +1
    17 November 2022 16: 54
    Disagree with the Author.
    Andropov tried to stop the "activity" of the pro-Western top of the ruling "elite".
    The greatest danger was from the inner 5th column.
    Immediately, at the same time, it was unreasonable and very dangerous to "fight" on two fronts. This was confirmed later, after his death.
    His death, and the arrival of collaborators in power, headed by Gorbachev and the idiot Yeltsin, destroyed his far-sighted Plans. But they also proved the correctness and far-sightedness of his thinking.
  48. +1
    19 November 2022 14: 15
    The author is very optimistic - the West does not need any "toadies"! In principle, they do not need anyone here, except for a handful of shift workers for the supply of raw materials. Therefore, the stupid hope of our "elites" to be at least Gauleiters - no one needs them! But, apparently, "Putin" is not able to understand this "entourage and his environment".
  49. -1
    20 November 2022 12: 12
    A country with a ruined humanitarian sphere, with faith in scientific communism, was not viable, and the modernization that Gorbachev carried out in the mid-1980s (at the suggestion of Andropov, as in the article) led to the squandering of funds and a set of loans that were given only in the middle of 2000- XNUMXs, thanks, by the way, to Kasyanov. Again Alexander Samsonov is promoting the Juche idea.
    Who ruined the USSR in the late 1980s? Own impotence of the central government. Bush also traveled to Kyiv, persuading the elites of Ukraine not to secede from the USSR. Stop looking everywhere for the "Western hand" when everyone is on their own.
  50. 0
    21 November 2022 10: 11
    I don't know where the author got this information from. It is unlikely that Andropov wrote some kind of paper plan, which the author saw in the Kremlin archives. However, it should be understood that Andropov was an "intelligence man." That is a trained pro. And trained for what?
    A scout is a person who is trained to understand people. And large masses of people, and, basically, a specific person. Focusing on him, in order to understand how this person lives, what he is, what is most important to him. After such concentration, the scout changes the behavior of the object in the way he needs.
    I can't believe that the intelligence officer, and then a major nomenklatura, was so monstrously stupid. It's just incredible. Why would he need some kind of convergence? Why did the USSR need it at all? This is just not difficult even for me, let alone for a person of Andropov's caliber, the USSR was dying due to the rapid stagnation of control systems. His colossal successes were destroyed by an ever-increasing wave of terribly illiterate and incompetent control signals.
    The party frankly failed to cope. And you want to convince me that such a specialist as Andropov was trying to do what? Give some decisions to "private hands"? Did he not foresee the reaction of those who would have to be thrown out of power? Guys, this is complete nonsense.
  51. 0
    12 December 2022 20: 21
    I liked Andropov. I also remember raids. I was on a business trip at an experimental automation plant in Lyubertsy. It was a free day, walking around the capital. And then a round-up, okay, it was at the Tretyakov Gallery, with paddling pools he wormed his way into the museum, scribbling in French - it passed ...
    1. 0
      21 January 2023 02: 04
      A friend of mine, a bassoonist, went with friends to the Museum of Socialism (I don’t remember the name exactly), to drink vodka and have a snack because it was warm there, and to put it mildly, not crowded, until they were noticed there. The rector excused himself, saying, the guys are good, they went to soak in the spirit.
  52. PC
    -1
    19 December 2022 07: 39
    Complete ignorance of history led Andropov to attempt to enter the USSR (Russia) into the Western world. The author is completely right - Russia will never be an integral part of the West. And there will be no Europe from Russia to Lisbon. Russia has its own way. And it’s high time for some Kremlin dreamers to understand this.
  53. The comment was deleted.
  54. 0
    27 December 2022 11: 21
    Great article. Finally, the problem of elite degradation has been raised.
  55. 0
    10 January 2023 17: 00
    The new leader of the USSR, former KGB chief, Yuri Vladimirovich Andropov, began to implement his plan for the “modernization-perestroika” of the Union

    What nonsense!!! All that Andropov managed to do during the 14 months of his rule was to strike a blow at Brezhnev’s inner circle (Shchelokov, Tsvigun, Rashidov, Churbanov), and to “tighten the screws” a little at the grassroots level.
    Where does the author’s confidence about Andropov’s far-reaching super-plan come from?
  56. 0
    15 January 2023 13: 00
    The problems of any empire are when it becomes skeletal. And it becomes skeletal when there are no conquests. Why are Americans conquering the whole world? So that the conquered peoples would dream of a toilet cleaner, and the elite would squeal with joy to sit (and not decide) next to the powers that be. We won ours and stopped. Take the same thing, if our army had Balts (they were highly praised in Afghanistan), immigrants from other republics (in large numbers), and Jews, then it would have been more effective. This is our problem, before the world was fragmented and we managed to exist more or less. Without updating the elites, we cannot survive. And most importantly, this update is happening quietly and is not advertised. And under Andropov, in order for us to survive, but it took a couple of decades, America was cracking with problems, gangs were terrorizing society, to start the Chinese project, for this we just had to legalize the power of the communists, Komsomol members into business money and indoctrinate the slave class with propaganda I wouldn't make a fuss. But again we come up against the rigidity of the authorities, who are incapable of flexibility.
  57. 0
    16 January 2023 00: 56
    Ligachev is a liberal??? Well, well... Strange fantasy
  58. 0
    18 January 2023 18: 23
    Most of the comments are superficial, due to the muddy knowledge of Andropov’s time, the KGB officer tightened the screws, causing a sharp rejection of the Moscow “intelligentsia” - the first phase of the collapse.. Marked, we really must pay tribute - he turned the burnt trains in Bashkiria in his favor and carried out the first the law of the second phase of the collapse of the country -no alcohol law sharply hit the planned economy, inflation while freezing prices stopped the movement of the ruble a year later, the cherry on the cake is the killer law of the USSR “election of directors” which brought the talkers to power. An example as simple as felt boots - (do we all remember sugar coupons?) nine factories per country ( according to technology, the faster you process sugar beets, the higher the percentage of sugar you will get, which is why there are so many of them) the babbles who sat in the chairs promised the teams such rivers of jelly and tried for a tight shrinkage (after all, in a year they might throw the next elections out of the chair) to do something in the chairs - the result at the height of the season, seven out of nine were down for repairs and the sugar disappeared..
  59. -1
    21 January 2023 01: 52
    Some kind of bullshit, Comrade Samsonov. The people ask for the Heperboreans on tired Mongolian horses.
  60. 0
    30 January 2023 18: 18
    It seemed that the USSR was beginning to lag behind the capitalist countries of the West. In this situation, the Soviet world was doomed to collapse and absorption by the West.
    - why would it? What kind of self-fulfilling prophecies are these from Samsonov without analyzing the situation? He convinced himself - and began to convince others within the framework of his faith. Many sensible politicians familiar with the economic situation within the country by the mid-80s would have laughed at those throwing out such theses. No one denied the problems, but their roots were clear. There was no apocalypse until Gorby started to rule.
  61. 0
    1 February 2023 23: 54
    Everything is spot on... it couldn’t have been otherwise by definition. Remember the crusades of dog knights, Poles, Napoleons and others like them.
  62. The comment was deleted.

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