Monarchy and the "Milyukov theorem"

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Monarchy and the "Milyukov theorem"
Kukryniksy. Cartoon on Milyukov


Magi are not afraid of powerful lords,
And they don’t need a princely gift;
True and Free Their Prophetic Language
And he is friendly with the will of heaven.
The coming years lurk in the gloom;
But I see your lot on a bright forehead.

A. S. Pushkin "The Song of the Prophetic Oleg"

Stupidity or treason?


On November 1 (14), 1916, the deputy, historian and head of the Constitutional Democratic Party Pavel Nikolaevich Milyukov delivered his famous anti-government speech “Stupidity or Treason?” in the State Duma.



Some believe that his extremely radical speech was dedicated to the political crisis that hit Russia, as a result of mediocre, bordering on treasonous governance of the country, associated with paralysis of power at all levels.

Others argue that his speech was the catalyst that sharply accelerated the crisis and led to the collapse of the monarchy and the Russian state, in the "ideal form" in which it existed until February 1917.

To put it differently, despite the problems that Russia has and associated with its participation in the First World War, it was precisely such people as Milyukov, the “petrels”, and possibly the executors of the will of the “anti-Russian foreign forces”, that led to the collapse of the “autocratic” Russia.

This "historical collision” or a theorem (by analogy with mathematics) needs to be proved.

What was it, this speech for Russia? A warning of an impending catastrophe, the “Babylon” of Alexander the Great, the “Ides of March” of Julius Caesar, or the “petrel” of the second Russian revolution?

Let's try to answer three fundamental questions.

First, the could Milyukov's "stormy petrels" be the reason for the fall of Russian statehood. Or the reason for the fall of power lies in the insoluble contradictions and problems of the government itself in general and the imperial family in particular: the fundamental inability to adequately respond to historical challenges.

Second, the “stupidity and betrayal” about which Milyukov spoke - is it a metaphor, a lie or the political reality of the Russian Empire during its decline? Were there, in fact, "stupidity and betrayal"?

Third, Are the actions of “petrels” and the like in the period of complex political vicissitudes of history legitimate from the point of view of morality? Especially in the face of an exacerbated external threat?

Method


From the point of view of historical analysis, what is important is what the participant in the historical process did under specific conditions, and not how the participant in the events later assessed himself under certain conditions, retroactively trying to whitewash himself or embellish, “smearing” the original chronicle of history.

Based on what, it does not matter at all what P. N. Milyukov did after the seizure of power in Russia, or, for example, L. G. Kornilov, A. I. Denikin or M. V. Alekseev, and even more so - what they wrote (who, of course, survived the Time of Troubles) in their memoirs: their actions during the fall of the monarchy are important to us.

Thus, only the actions that occur in a particular period matter. Even if later P. N. Milyukov reproached himself for his speech:

"History will curse our leaders, the so-called proletarians, but it will also curse us, who caused the storm."

Milyukov the politician is clearly inferior to Milyukov the historian: the inevitability of change was obvious.

There were two items on the agenda.

First. Is it possible to correct the system of government during the war and thereby ensure victory in the war, thereby preventing a revolution?

Second question. If the first is no longer feasible, then who will be able to ride this revolutionary wave?

Milyukov-Dardanelsky, as the leader of the Cadets, thought that the Russian Fronde would lead only moderate forces to victory, and would not turn the flywheel of a radical political struggle.

But the fact remains that the speech was delivered and had a huge political resonance and real historical consequences.

The first question


Since the beginning of the twentieth century, in the new modern conditions, when the Second Industrial Revolution had already passed, the Russian elite and the supreme power could not find adequate answers.

The main and key issue of the irreconcilable class struggle in Russia remained the question of land: the peasants were dissatisfied with the reform carried out by the feudal lords and for the feudal lords. The reform of 1861, in addition to the conditionally personal (we emphasize - conditionally!) liberation of the peasants, at the same time economically robbed this class in favor of the state and feudal nobles.

The reform, on the one hand, opened the way for advanced capitalist economic relations, and on the other hand, sharply limited the possibility of their development, narrowing it down to state-bureaucratic ones.

It was this development of the country's economic forces that led to the military-economic catastrophe of 1916-1917.

All the rapid development of the economy and capitalist relations at a tremendous pace in the pre-war period did not eliminate the critical technological backwardness of the country, and this is taking into account the fact that the Eastern (Russian) front was not a key one for the Triple Alliance.

Russian industry in peacetime could only meet the current needs of the armed forces in the main types of weapons - artillery, rifles, shells and cartridges, and then what can we say about the war period! According to the latest types of weapons, many of which were not produced at all: machine guns, airplanes, vehicles, tanks and the latest types of warships - inferior to Germany and France from 2 to 5 times.

For fifty post-reform years, the industrial revolution in Russia did not happen.

And these are only economic problems, plus the obligatory companions of such economic development: embezzlement, bribery, inflated prices, etc.
We deliberately focus on the most important problems of systemic management, in front of which many positive actions of the government lost their meaning. Within the framework of the anti-control system, they did not play any significance, like a spoon of honey in a barrel of tar, and even a bucket of it.

During the revolution of 1905-1907. it became clear that the monarchy, which did not easily spare patrons (and checkers) against the workers of the capital, and forever had no patrons against external enemies (the Russo-Japanese War), was losing support from most classes of Russian society: from the bourgeoisie and intelligentsia to nobles and peasants.

Only the unprecedented use of force against the peasantry (the people) made it possible to bring down the intensity of this struggle. And we are not talking about the uprising of the capitals, but about the boundless peasant revolt, pacified by the famous "Stolypin ties", Cossack whips and bayonets of the guard:

"Soldiers, brave children, where is your glory?"

Even the election of a small State Duma showed that the deputies were sharply in opposition to the tsarist government, regardless of the class component.

Instead of solving pressing social and economic problems, P. Stolypin's reform began, which never set as its goal the creation of a certain "class of owners". His task was to form a social base for the support of the monarchy and the monarch, through the expropriation of the peasantry and the creation of a farmer-fist.

Stolypin's reform was adopted after the dispersal of the 1st State Duma, that is, the June 3 coup d'état carried out by Emperor Nicholas II.
And despite this, the reform completely failed, not because of "external forces", but because of its rejection by the Russian peasantry, who did not want to turn into "firewood" for the implementation of Stolypin's plans.

But the suppression of the general mass peasant uprising and the relatively calm foreign policy situation from 1907 to 1914, achieved through constant concessions - diplomatic "Tsushima", made it possible for Russia to exist without "great upheavals" for seven years, driving domestic and foreign political problems inside.

All these unresolved problems, together with historically inevitable accidents, led to the fall of the tsarist autocracy. Cadet V. Obolensky wrote:

"The feeling that Russia was run at best by lunatics and at worst by traitors was universal."

It was not the war and not the actions of the oppositionists or the secret enemies of the “Orthodox monarchy” that caused the crisis, just as it is not worth looking for it in the far reaches of history.

Thus, the speech of P. Milyukov, a relatively loyal politician - a monarchist, although a constitutional one, was the last warning to the tsar or the supreme power about the coming storm. The authorities, due to their political views and mental abilities, did not hear her.

This is the answer to the first question.

About statehood


When the term "statehood" is used, a certain constant appears, outside of time and space.

But statehood (or more precisely, the state) is a system of governing society by the ruling class: if the feudal lords rule, then the state is feudal, if the capitalists are capitalist. Of course, this is very approximate, there were many transitional moments along the historical path, when, as we know, there were remnants of one management system and another, but in general it looked like this.

Monarchy is a system of government under feudalism. It appeared with the emergence of feudalism and was abolished with the liquidation of its basis, feudal or noble land ownership, from February 1917. That's all.

The monarchy existed in Russia for about four centuries, as well as, in fact, feudalism, and as we know, Rus' appeared on the political map at the end of the XNUMXth - beginning of the XNUMXth century and remained within the pre-feudal period until the XNUMXth century, when the formation of two classes of nobles and peasants.

In February 1917, all remnants of feudalism were liquidated, and this was consolidated during the Civil War of 1918-1922.

As for Milyukov, he was not only a harbinger of the fall of "statehood", but even of the monarchy, he wanted to give a warning, about which below. Moreover, Milyukov's influence was limited to a narrow circle of the urban intelligentsia, nothing more.


Kukryniksy. The fall of the autocracy

Managerial stupidity is worse than betrayal


In his speech, the politician Milyukov noted:

“... naturally, on this basis, rumors arise about the recognition in government circles of the aimlessness of further struggle, the timeliness of the end of the war and the need to conclude a separate peace.
Gentlemen, I would not like to go towards the excessive, perhaps painful suspicion with which the excited feeling of a Russian patriot reacts to everything that happens.
But how will you refute the possibility of such suspicions when a handful of obscure personalities direct the most important state affairs for personal and base interests?

These facts happened. Both Rasputin and those close to him "participated" in the management of state affairs.

Firstly, it brought confusion into the system, which was not very suitable for governing the country, in the conditions of a world war.

The mystical revelations of Rasputin, supported by the same Vyrubova, would not matter if they concerned only the tsar's family, but had nothing to do with governance. Unfortunately, the interweaving of the interests of the family and the monarchy was extremely great during this period and negatively influenced the affairs of government.

Secondly, it could not do without the connection of representatives of the "dark forces" with speculators and black market bigwigs, who had a negative impact on the war economy.

The leapfrog among the appointment of the highest officials of the empire: from the Chairman of the Government to the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, took place with the participation of, among other things, the "dark forces" and the "German Queen" at a time when the state strained or had to strain all its forces in the fight against the enemy.

In this case, we use the phrase “German queen” to characterize the view of the monarchy among the broad, uncultured masses of the people during the war with Germany, when any real problem was easily attributed to the tsar’s relatives, ethnically close enemies. And it was painted in rough, insulting colors for the king's family and his entourage.

The absence of the will of the tsar, as the head of state, the lack of will of the statesmen who surrounded the emperor, drove Russia into an "economic impasse" and led to a military catastrophe.

Neither the intellectual nor the managerial level of the top leadership and the generals met the requirements of the times. Although, it must be admitted, many of them were able to serve Russia with a change in the management system, after October 1917, that is, there were personnel, but in the absence of an adequate management system, they could not realize themselves.

Without removing part of the blame from Nikolai Aleksandrovich, for fairness it should be noted that this period of the development of mankind, or rather Europe, showed the inconsistency of the monarchy, as a management system, with the challenges facing countries. As a result, the monarchs of Germany, Austria-Hungary, and the Ottoman Empire lost their crown.

Even trying to avoid value judgments, how can one relate to the words of the top leader, who held this post for twenty-one years, who said:

"All around treason and cowardice, and deceit"
.
For twenty years, the emperor formed the system of governing the country, where during the crisis period, at the moment of the need to exert all forces, the managers turned out to be cowards, deceivers and traitors.

The Russian government was not able to carry out in time a complete "mobilization" of industry along the lines of Germany or Austria in the style of V. I. Lenin's "April theses". It was impossible to achieve effective results by half-measures. Even the confiscation of factories that could not cope with the military order was a half-measure, as in the case of the Putilov factory.

In all other respects, speculative capital, acquired on superprofits from military supplies, flourished, and fantastic corruption. Only lazy people did not talk about bribery, embezzlement in the chronic shortage of the army (the “shell” crisis began already in December 1916). And this was just a direct betrayal of the interests of the country.

In connection with the situation described, it was then difficult to talk about the unity of the rear and the front (everything for the front - everything for victory, by analogy with the Great Patriotic War).

This situation could not but irritate the masses of soldiers and the officer corps:

“In the army, loudly, not embarrassed by either place or time,” wrote A. I. Denikin, “there was talk about the empress’ insistent demand for a separate peace [with Germany - V. E.], about her betrayal of Field Marshal Kitchener, about the trip whom she allegedly told the Germans, etc.”

The tsar’s entourage, on which he relied, consisted of people who were narrow-minded, ignorant and reactionary, but clever intriguers and courtiers who did not want to bother themselves with the work of real government, which, by the way, includes reforms. The inability or ability to govern is especially pronounced in such difficult periods as the war: the reign of Nicholas II brought the country to the brink of the abyss twice during the wars.

The situation with "stupidity and betrayal" that Milyukov spoke of was real. Social forces demanded and needed a change in the state of the Russian Empire, but the supreme power did not understand and did not notice this. Another thing is that Milyukov himself, a supporter of the English system of government, where the king was a nominal figure in government, did not fully realize how much the old system could not be repaired and what the new one would be like.

Oracle or petrel?


So, we have come to the third question of the theorem: is the action of “petrels” and the like in the period of complex political vicissitudes of history legitimate from the point of view of morality? Especially in the face of an exacerbated external threat?

The leader of the monarchists, V. M. Purishkevich, speaking from the rostrum of the State Duma at the same time as P. Milyukov, in November 1916, said:

“It is necessary that from now on Rasputin’s recommendation will not be enough to appoint the most vile persons to the highest posts. Rasputin is now more dangerous than False Dmitry was once...
Lord ministers! If you are true patriots, go there, to the tsar's Headquarters, throw yourself at the feet of the tsar and ask to rid Russia of Rasputin and Rasputinists, great and small.

And the head of the right in the State Council, I. G. Shcheglovitov, described the government as follows:

“The paralytics of power are feebly, hesitantly, somehow reluctantly fighting the epileptics of the revolution.”

But no one wanted to listen to these warnings.

Throughout 1916, there was open talk that the tsar should be forced to abdicate; many of the participants in the "conspiracy" believed that the tsar should be killed. Even the assassination of Rasputin by aristocratic monarchists in December 1916 did not save either the tsar or, as it turned out, the monarchy.

Protopresbyter of the Russian Army G. I. Shavelsky wrote:

“From many hints and statements, I could guess that even such prominent generals as Alekseev, Brusilov and Ruzsky belong to the conspirators against the last tsar, or at least to people who sympathize with the conspiracy. In connection with these conspiracies, General Krymov, who commanded the cavalry corps, was also named.
It was rumored that members of the State Duma were joining the conspirators.
The conspiracy was finally made known to Palaiologos and George Buchanan, the French and British ambassadors.
It was rather vaguely reported about some two circles plotting the forced abdication of the tsar.
There was also talk of capturing a special train on the road between Headquarters and Tsarskoye Selo, in which the sovereign traveled to Mogilev.
Some of the "know-it-alls", who were always decent in the highest headquarters and in the Headquarters, argued that among the conspirators there was a dispute whether to destroy only the empress, hated by everyone, or at the same time the autocrat himself.

General A. A. Brusilov in 1916, expressing the opinion of many generals, asked the Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovich to influence the emperor, with the aim of political concessions and reforms in the country.

The February Revolution of 1917 began after workers' demonstrations, with a soldiers' revolt. It was the rebellion that provided the revolution with the strength that it could not have in the capital.

The soldier's mutiny of February 1917 would have had no consequences if the active army had been used against it. The governor of Petrograd, General S. S. Khabalov, did not take any effective means against the soldiers' unrest, taking a wait-and-see attitude.

Chief of Staff of the Supreme Commander General of Infantry M. V. Alekseev (participant of the Russian-Turkish war of 1877–1878 and future leader of the White movement), instead of sending loyal units to suppress the uprising and support the monarch, “asks” for an opinion on the abdication of the emperor all front commanders, accompanying the “request” with a telegram with the following content:

“The situation, apparently, does not allow a different solution. It is necessary to save the active army from collapse; continue to the end the fight against the external enemy; save the independence of Russia and the fate of the dynasty."

The commanders confirmed that they agreed with the abdication. Against were Admiral Kolchak, General Yudenich, Count Keller and Khan Ali Hussein Nakhchivan.

Now there is a version that the king was forced to abdicate by the generals, by taking the royal family hostage. But it does not answer the main question of renunciation - why? What was completely obvious to the tsarist generals at the historical moment - it was impossible to win the war with such a tsar!

And on March 8 (21), 1917, Infantry General L. G. Kornilov personally arrested Empress Alexandra Feodorovna and the emperor’s family, calling the queen a “citizen”. To the proposal in June 1917 to restore the monarchy in Russia, the future creator of the White movement replied that

"He will not go on any adventure with the Romanovs."

“Would you have listened to the Magus, nailed another shield to the gates of Tsaregrad?”


So, throughout the history of mankind, sorcerers, oracles, elders, orators and politicians, in a time of terrible trials for their country or their people and state, raised similar questions, and regardless of how the further fate of their states developed, these people warned of a storm.

Laocoön and Hannibal, Cicero, Machiavelli and Dimitrov before the Nazi court, many like them, who warned of impending troubles - were their speeches and opinions superfluous? And if their opinion had not been neglected, maybe the whole history of their countries and peoples would have gone differently?

There is an opinion that such speeches are necessary. This is what "Milyukov's theorem" is about.
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  1. +6
    14 November 2022 06: 19
    I wonder what fans of "crunching a bun" will answer to the article? Olgovich Aw-o-o-o! hi
    1. +11
      14 November 2022 07: 01
      Quote: Region-25.rus
      Olgovich Aw-o-o-o!

      Well, you remembered! laughing
      And according to the article, oh, what unpleasant, but fair parallels are drawn not with speech, but with the actions of governments. Unfortunately fair...
      1. +6
        14 November 2022 09: 42
        Well, you remembered! laughing
        well, so .. the brightest representative of the aforementioned cohort (by the way, where is he?) laughing
        And according to the article, then oh, what unpleasant, but fair parallels
        well so .. "not Dimon" said .. - "our ideal Russia of the sample of 1913" . It's good that at least they don't force "respected" people to "break their hats" when passing through a cortege. And the rest .. very well YES! Parallels... very parallel.
      2. AAK
        +7
        14 November 2022 23: 22
        Yes, what parallels, everything is already in plain text! Almost complete (with 2 minor exceptions) analogy with the current time:
        1. There is the "collective" Milyukov - who speaks of both stupidity and betrayal, there are even those same stupidity and betrayal, and, moreover, in non-isolated cases;
        2. There is a King
        3. There is a "collective" Queen ("We eat Russia", most of the State Duma, Federation Council and Presidential Administration, the diplomatic and economic bloc of the Government ... everything is natural right up to the "phone to" Wilhelm "from the bedroom);
        4. There are market tycoons, speculators and embezzlers in very large numbers;
        5. There are a lot of Buchanans and Paleologs;
        There are 2 things that are not clear:
        - to what extent Mishustin can correspond to either the image of Stolypin or the image of Rasputin (then one should already think about Mordechai Bogrov and Felix Yusupov ...);
        - which of the generals will become Alekseev, Brusilov and Ruzsky, and who will become Kolchak and Keller (there is, as it were, a candidate for the role of "Khan of Nakhichevan" ...);
        So, the prerequisites for the "February Revolution" are quite to themselves, there is even something harmful to Kerensky ... but the vacancies of Guchkov, Purishkevich and Shulgin are still open ...
        October, perhaps, still will not happen ... Zyuganov is not Ulyanov ...
        1. -1
          15 November 2022 03: 41
          What are the parallels
          ...
          it's all there in plain text!
          yes? .. "What's the difference?" what Directly, or in parallel .. well, I think the essence is clear hi
        2. +1
          15 November 2022 04: 29
          Quote: AAK
          Yes, what parallels, everything is already in plain text!

          It’s a pity that it’s perpendicular to the addressees (not us), it seems ...
        3. -2
          15 November 2022 22: 01
          Quote: AAK
          October, perhaps, still will not happen ... Zyuganov is not Ulyanov ...

          Quote: AAK
          how much Mishustin can match either the image of Stolypin,

          Mishustin, a student after the first year, practically supervised the Stankin Computing Center. Zyuganov was a simple clerk under the CPSU and did not prove himself in any way. After 1991, the country drank heavily and lost the skills to work. For ten years, the generation conceived after drinking has grown up. Putin still turned the tide, sending the Chubais, Khodorkovskys, Politkovskys, Nemtsovs, Berezovskys, Navalnys, some to the other world, some to exile. Zyuganov lost the confrontation to Chubais outright. Russia's only problem is the danger of a war with NATO. All sanctions are being skillfully neutralized by the industry and agriculture of our country with due cooperation with friendly countries. It's just that Ukraine needs to quickly deliver a powerful nuclear strike. Only in this way can Europe be brought to its senses and the deterioration of the situation prevented. Putin's opponents intend to dismember Russia. They are already ready, in the person of Zelensky, to give the entire territory of Russia east of the Yenisei to China in order to overthrow Putin. After saturation of Ukraine with Western air defense systems and aviation, a nuclear strike may not help.
          1. 0
            7 January 2023 14: 49
            gsev. Two guys are walking after a good drink. They paused to light a cigarette and suddenly they see that several people are standing there and talking about something. One of the guys says to the other - then the Jews, let's go and stuff their faces. The second asks - what if they beat us? The first is surprised - but why are we?! Gusev, have you thought about this?
    2. +8
      14 November 2022 14: 39
      In general, "if you remember" that the speech of the cadet Milyukov was preceded by an article by another, no less advanced analyst, entitled "The Fall of Port Arthur." Written, by the way, ten years earlier ...

      Events have confirmed the correctness of those foreigners who laughed when they saw how tens and hundreds of millions of rubles are thrown into the purchase and construction of magnificent military ships, and spoke of the futility of these costs in the inability to handle modern ships, in the absence of people capable of knowingly using the latest improvements military equipment. The fleet, the fortress, the field fortifications, and the land army turned out to be backward and worthless.

      The connection between the military organization of the country and its entire economic and cultural system has never been so close as at the present time. The military collapse could not but be the beginning of a deep political crisis. The war between an advanced country and a backward country played this time, as has repeatedly been the case in history, a great revolutionary role.
  2. +7
    14 November 2022 06: 27
    hi
    from the soldiers' mutiny. It was the rebellion that provided the revolution with the strength that it could not have in the capital.
    The army has rebelled! They say the king is not real! (With)
    There is an opinion that such speeches are necessary. This is what "Milyukov's theorem" is about.
    But even in today's Duma, there is no "Milyukov." Already, all the parties are painfully tightly tied together. Yes, and they are on state subsidies. Do not reject the hand that feeds.
    1. +5
      14 November 2022 06: 30
      Some believe that his extremely radical speech was devoted to the political crisis that hit Russia, as a result of mediocre, bordering on treasonous governance of the country, associated with paralysis of power at all levels.
      .what year is that...?
      1. +10
        14 November 2022 06: 39
        .
        what year is that...?
        History develops in a spiral, certain events are repeated, on a new turn, in one format or another.
  3. -1
    14 November 2022 07: 08
    Such "Milyukovs" in any parliament, in any country, like champignons on a livestock farm ...
  4. 0
    14 November 2022 07: 32
    Confrontation and contradictions between billionaires (landowners, the highest old estate and princes) and millionaires (merchants and industrialists + compradores - bankers).
    They didn't vilify.
  5. +2
    14 November 2022 08: 13
    Laocoön and Hannibal, Cicero, Machiavelli and Dimitrov before the Nazi court, many like them, who warned of impending troubles - were their speeches and opinions superfluous?
    They do not listen to the prophets, neither in their own Fatherland, nor in strangers.
    1. -2
      14 November 2022 08: 32
      Quote: kor1vet1974
      Laocoön and Hannibal, Cicero, Machiavelli and Dimitrov before the Nazi court, many like them, who warned of impending troubles - were their speeches and opinions superfluous?

      Hannibal, how did he warn of impending troubles? Yes, and other representatives of this respected company ....... ?
      The author of the article is clearly talking.
      1. +10
        14 November 2022 09: 02
        Hannibal's warning speech before the Senate of Carthage, about which Titus Livius wrote.
        1. -3
          14 November 2022 09: 51
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          Hannibal's warning to the Senate of Carthage

          Hannibal's theorem?
          You can’t mix vodka with beer, this is a warning.
          1. +5
            14 November 2022 11: 13
            Hannibal's theorem?
            You can’t mix vodka with beer, this is a warning.

            Someone likes the same, someone doesn't, Just a theorem. laughing
            1. -2
              14 November 2022 11: 34
              Milyukov, apparently, mixed alcohol before his famous performance. Joke
              1. +5
                14 November 2022 11: 43
                Sometimes, for a more objective view of reality, you need to mix something up. Also a joke hi
    2. +7
      14 November 2022 15: 18
      You see, I believe that...

      It was already possible to "prophesy" a catastrophe in November 1916, even without having a "professor" or deputy position. And not being an "awesome" revolutionary ... But simply, "looking out the window" ...
  6. +1
    14 November 2022 08: 18
    There is an opinion that such speeches are necessary, summed up the author of the article.
    Milyukov was a scoundrel, these were the opinions, moreover, from different opposing sides.
    When the Bolsheviks came to power, this was the Providence of God, that is, all this evil spirits - Milyukov and company, were swept away.
  7. +7
    14 November 2022 08: 33
    not the very content of Milyukov's speech about some dark forces that had a dynasty and were leading the country to a separate world created the effect of a strong speech, but a chorus of those who listened to it and answered with the word "Treason". Therefore, Milyukov’s speech was forbidden to be published in newspapers, but in Russia by that time Nicholas II had already dismissed everything and everything, that samizdat was already working with might and main and soon Milyukov’s speech was known in all educated families of Russia.
    But the exclamations of betrayal by the people themselves in samizdat, the text of Miliukov's speech read, would not have had any special effect if Rasputin's assassination had not followed. People began to be surprised, horrified, but also convinced that, they say, how is this possible if they killed the favorite and favorite of the Emperor himself and the Imperial family, and this is the Emperor and his special. service is actually weakly responsive, then after all you can get to
    the Emperor himself. It may not be necessary to kill him, but to remove him from power and force him to abdicate - this is possible with such a spineless Emperor, and if necessary, then it is necessary. At the same time, many realized that if Nikolai did not send an obvious swindler and the authority of the dynasty and all of Russia who dishonored Rasputin to hard labor, then all revolutionary parties would avoid that the tops of those parties would be sent to Siberia for hard labor. The killers of Rasputin assumed that by killing Rasputin they were saving the monarchy, but in reality this murder only revealed all the rot in the royal dynasty under Nicholas II and only revealed the possibilities of revolution. Only now, the liberals who organized the coup d'état, represented by the parties of the Cadets and the Socialist-Revolutionaries, could not hold on to power, and they abandoned this power, like an unnecessary rag on the dusty road of Russian history.
    It's good that Lenin's Bolsheviks were found, they raised this unnecessary power to no one in Russia then, took it into their own hands, shook it off and thereby saved Russia. If not Lenin's Bolsheviks, then Russia would have perished by the end of 1918. Well, when by 1922 Lenin created the Red Empire of Russia of the USSR, it became clear that the imperial status of Russia, as a baton of continuity in the history of Russia, would be preserved and passed on to the next generation. This work was completed by Great Stalin, having finally created the Red Empire of the USSR.
    1. +2
      14 November 2022 08: 50
      Quote: north 2
      not the very content of Milyukov's speech about some dark forces that had a dynasty and were leading the country to a separate world created the effect of a strong speech, but a chorus of those who listened to it and answered with one word "Treason".

      After the overthrow of the tsar, a commission was created to identify these same unclean forces in the tsar’s entourage. And they didn’t find anyone or anything, Vyrubova was even checked for virginity, apparently there was nowhere else to look.
      1. +8
        14 November 2022 09: 43
        Who was on the commission? Probably the very ones who were kept by the "unclean forces" from the Foreign Office and personally by Mr. Rothschild.
        It is well known how promptly the Western democracies congratulated the Russian people on their "liberation from the yoke of tsarism." At the moment, they recognized the liberals who came to power.
        And the arrows, as usual, were transferred to their opponents. Like this is Kaiser Wilhelm with his General Staff muddied everything ...

        PYSY. A separate peace with Germany was the last chance to save the Russian Empire. But, of course, the real "dark forces" did not want this at all. They needed the collapse of the Empire so that they could profit not only at the expense of the defeated enemy - Germany, but also at the expense of their alleged ally - Russia.
        Only the Bolsheviks, led by Lenin, broke this combination.
        1. +2
          14 November 2022 11: 13
          Separate peace with Germany was the last chance to save the Russian Empire

          Pretty preservation of the Empire, when almost the entire European part of Russia was given to the Kaiser ... wink
          1. -2
            14 November 2022 13: 19
            Quote: Luminman
            Pretty preservation of the Empire, when almost the entire European part of Russia was given to the Kaiser ...


            The European part of Russia ends in the Urals. Well, how much is the Kaiser's troops left to the Urals?
            In reality, on the eve of the February Revolution, the Germans controlled a not so large territory, moreover, quite alien, from which the Empire had more problems (Eastern Poland, partly the Baltic states).
            The Bolsheviks gave noticeably more, but this allowed them to maintain their regime.
            Sometimes it is more useful to sacrifice a part, but keep the main thing. Stupid obstinacy can just lead to disaster.
            Of course, it all depends on the specific situation and many factors.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. -1
              14 November 2022 14: 31
              Quote: Illanatol
              The European part of Russia ends in the Urals

              And the thing is that behind this very Ural, there was nothing but forest and ice! Absolutely nothing that any Empire rests on. Well, almost nothing...

              It should not be forgotten that about one third of the population of all of Russia lived in this territory, given to Germany by Lenin, and there was almost one third of all agricultural cultivated land! On this given territory, 1/3 of all steel and iron were smelted and almost 1% of coal was mined!

              Almost the entire industry was located in this given part of the Empire, without which not a single belligerent state simply can exist ...
      2. +3
        14 November 2022 10: 11
        After the overthrow of the king, a commission was created to identify these very unclean forces surrounded by the king.
        The ChSK was created for other purposes. To condemn the tsarist regime and tsarist power. But the work of the commission itself was initially unpromising. It is impossible to condemn the regime, within the framework of its own legislation. At the time of the work of the ChSK, the laws of the Russian Empire were in force. It turned out during the investigation that all the actions of the ministers were legal, including the suppression of revolutionary speeches.
        1. 0
          14 November 2022 10: 16
          Quote: kor1vet1974
          At the time of the work of the ChSK, the laws of the Russian Empire were in force

          But after all, a whole Department was created as part of the Commission under the sonorous name "Survey of the activities of dark forces"
          No more no less.
          1. +2
            14 November 2022 10: 53
            "Inspection of the activities of dark forces"
            And examined the dark forces according to what legislation? According to the "Hammer of the Witches", or what? According to the same imperial legislation, it did not fall under persecution. The maximum that it was drawn to was excess of authority. Once again I explain that the main goal of the commission is to condemn the actions of the tsarist government. But it was not possible to condemn within the framework of the existing and existing legislation. The paradox was that the commission simply refuted the rumors that were invented by the same opposition that later became the head of Russia. Plus, they also tried to condemn the government within the framework of the laws adopted by the government that they wanted to condemn.
            1. -2
              14 November 2022 11: 08
              I completely agree with you.
              Quote: kor1vet1974
              The paradox was that the commission simply refuted those rumors that were invented by the same opposition that later became the head of Russia.

              And who, after this, is Milyukov, if not a decent person, to put it mildly.
      3. +3
        14 November 2022 13: 29
        Vyrubova was even checked for virginity
        - gee-gee-gee!
        During the years of the Civil War, none of the White Guard movements was monarchist. These were unprincipled native troops in the service of the Anglo-French-Japanese and further along the entire list of Sahib interventionists. When they were kicked out of Russia, the White Guards needed a semblance of legitimacy to return to the country in the convoy of interventionists, and they unanimously remembered monarchism. Exactly the same fighters for Russia gathered from November 4 to 7 in the suburbs of Warsaw at the "Congress of People's Deputies of Russia." During this congress, fugitive parliamentarians Ilya Ponomarev and Gennady Gudkov declared themselves "the legislative body of Russia." The congress gave rise to the "Fundamental Declaration", the essence of which is the return of Ukraine's former borders, as well as Russia's payment of "fair compensation" to Ukraine. - I was crying.
        In exile, those who, during the February Revolution and the years of the civil war, unanimously spoiled the idea of ​​monarchism and personally began to deify Nicholas II. A simple example. In exile, former Wrangel officers kicked Rodzianko, former Chairman of the State Duma of the third and fourth convocations, one of the leaders of the February Revolution of 1917, to death for his past attacks on the holy elder Rasputin.
        It was within the framework of this company of the monarchization of the white movement that a former gendarmerie captain declared in the yellow émigré press that before the October Revolution he allegedly saw a document from the Provisional Government on checking the unfortunate Vyrubova for virginity. From this followed the conclusion that the innocently slandered old man Grishka Rasputin was a benefactor of Russia. Needless to say, there is not a single intelligible evidence of the existence of such a document. As for Vyrubova's "virginity", suffice it to say that in 1907 Anna Taneeva (her maiden name) married naval officer Alexander Vyrubov in Tsarskoye Selo, but the marriage was short-lived and broke up the very next year. Make me laugh by saying that during the year of her marriage, Vyrubova never gave herself up to a naval officer.
        On the Extraordinary Commission of the Provisional Government. After the outbreak of the war, Germany found itself in a food blockade, and already in 1915 the German queen rushed to the aid of her homeland. She, through Grishka Rasputin and his Jewish entourage, organized a grandiose operation to supply Germany with sugar, cake and other strategic products. Several sugar associations and Jewish commissioners were involved in the operation (no way without them). In 1915 alone, 30 million poods of refined sugar (492 tons), or one third of its annual production in Russia, arrived in Persia through the Caucasus, Central Asia, and for the most part by ships across the Caspian Sea. And this is only what was documented by counterintelligence.
        From Baghdad, sugar and other products went to Turkey, and then through the coveted Bosporus and Dardanelles to Austria-Hungary and Germany. To save Germany, it was even necessary to reduce the allowances for sugar in the Russian army.
        Sugar deliveries to Germany are only flowers investigated by counterintelligence. Berries are the deliveries of cake, which the counterintelligence was not allowed to investigate at all.
        I explain what cake is for war. Hay and straw are unsuitable for feeding draft and cavalry horses:
        - hay is voluminous, it is difficult to transport it and it is impossible to organize temporary storage, since hay quickly loses calorie content from interaction with air;
        - The calorific value of straw is extremely low.
        Percheron, fed with rotten straw, must digest it, and therefore is not suitable for work for a long time. Therefore, in all the armies of the world, draft and cavalry horses are fed with low-grade grain. For example, oats. During the military famine, all grain, without exception, went to feed the population and the army. Only rotten straw remained for the Percherons. In addition, the war began in August, when in Germany the grain was not yet ripe, but it was harvested for horse feed. Because of this, in the winter of 1914-1915, the most severe loss of horses began in the German army. Here the Germans would have been kapets, but the tsarina organized the delivery of cake to Germany in time ...
        The cake is ideal for war:
        - cake tiles are compact, no containers are needed for their transportation and storage, it is enough to cover the tiles from rain;
        - in caloric content, cake is superior to grain and does not lose it for a long time.
        It would not be an exaggeration to say that cake was as strategic a product for the First World War as gasoline and diesel fuel were for the Second World War.
        In 1915, the German army delivered the main blow to Russia in order to withdraw it from the war. And the Russian cake came in very handy for her. It is impossible to count how many Russian soldiers were killed by German cartridges and shells, which were brought to the front by Percherons fed with Russian oilcake ... Here, of course, we are not talking about espionage! After all, the queen did not come to Russia in a sealed carriage.
        In 1916, the command of the Russian army came to the understanding that the main enemy of the autocracy was not revolutionaries at all, but financial businessmen. Among them stood out for their greed nationally soldered Jewish cohort of businessmen, brokers, lawyers, newspapermen, etc., who had extensive business and family ties in Austria-Hungary and Germany.
        To combat this scourge, in May 1916, a special operational-investigative commission was created on the basis of the Counterintelligence Department of the Northern Front, headed by the General Staff, Major General N.S. Batyushin (everything I wrote is extracts from his memoirs).
        All the defendants in the case were under the auspices of Grishka Rasputin, and through him under the auspices of the queen. However, on July 10, 1916, Batyushin began mass arrests. Rubenstein, a freemason and financial swindler on both sides of the front, was among the first to be arrested. During a search, a secret document of the headquarters of the 3rd Army was found on him - in wartime - this is a tower. For example. Allegedly, the spy Mata Hari was shot as a warning to others only because she gave herself to a German lieutenant. Evidence of her espionage has not yet been presented. However, Rubenstein was a friend of Grishka Rasputin, well received by the queen, and on December 6, 1916, at the direct insistence of the German woman, he and his accomplices were released.
        The Rubinsteins needed war. Therefore, when the tsar started separate negotiations (the Austro-Hungarian diplomat Count Ottokar Chernin von und zu Khudenitz writes about them in his memoirs), he was immediately overthrown, and the “innocent victims” of the tsar’s guardsman Batyushin were immediately released. At the suggestion of Rubinstein, liberal newspapers began an unbridled persecution of Batyushin and his commission, and on April 8, 1917, on the basis of newspaper accusations (!!!), they were all arrested. The funny thing is that Batyushin, who was put behind bars, was not even appointed an investigator.
        In November 1917, the Bolsheviks threw off this qahal. On parole not to oppose the Soviets, Batyushin was released. He kept the word of an officer for a whole year, and then fled to Denikin.
        Against this background, one can only laugh at the fact that the Extraordinary Investigation Commission of the Provisional Government "to investigate the illegal actions of former ministers, chief executives and other senior officials of both civil, military and naval departments" recognized that in the actions
        Nicholas II and his wife found no corpus delicti
        - gee-gee-gee. Under the interim government, there were too many of those who were least interested in exposing the crimes of the royal family. The fate of the tsarist oprichnik of the General Staff, Major General counterintelligence officer Batyushin, is a confirmation of this.
        1. -2
          14 November 2022 14: 16
          Quote: Old electrician
          Make me laugh by saying that during the year of her marriage, Vyrubova never gave herself up to a naval officer.

          The naval officer turned out to be a degenerate, the marriage was fictitious.
          Quote: Old electrician
          a certain former gendarme captain declared in the yellow émigré press that before the October Revolution he allegedly saw a document from the Provisional Government on checking the unfortunate Vyrubova for virginity.

          The memories of the ChSK investigator, V.M. Rudnev, remained, it is not clear which fugitive captain you are talking about.
          1. 0
            15 November 2022 12: 56
            The memories of the ChSK investigator V.M. Rudneva, it is not clear what kind of fugitive captain you are talking about.
            - Thank you so much for the tip on Rudnev! I haven't laughed so hard in a long time!
            Let's start with the fact that on July 25, 1918, eight days after the execution of the royal family, Yekaterinburg was occupied by detachments of the interventionist Czechoslovak Corps and units of the White Army dragged along in their convoy. This is a well-known but carefully ignored detail. Yekaterinburg was guarded (not defended!) by a couple of hundred cripples. Nevertheless, no attempts were made to free the Romanovs, the Czechoslovaks, who were directly subordinate to the Anglo-French command, stood still and entered the city only after the telegraph spread the news of the execution around the world.
            On July 30, 1918, an investigation began into the circumstances of the death of the Romanovs.
            On January 17, 1919, to supervise the investigation into the murder of the royal family, a deserter of the Russian fleet and a regular officer of the British army, pompously called the Supreme Ruler of Russia, the former admiral of the Russian fleet A.V. Kolchak appointed the commander-in-chief of the Western Front, Lieutenant General M.K. Diterichs. By order of February 6, 1919, the investigation was entrusted to the investigator for especially important cases of the Omsk District Court N. A. Sokolov (1882-1924).
            The document, entitled V.M. Rudnev "The Truth about the Russian Royal Family and the Dark Forces" is not a memoir, etc. fiction, and, moreover, the undocumented results of the work of the ChSK. This is a propaganda document concocted on the direct orders of Dieterichs as part of the measures taken to investigate the murder of the Romanovs. Rudnev himself writes about the purpose of this document as follows:
            I hereby convey to Major General Mikhail Dmitrievich Nechvolodov the right to translate and publish in all European languages ​​the manuscript of my on the survey of the activities of the "dark forces", compiled by me on the basis of data obtained during my secondment in 1917 to the Extraordinary Commission of Inquiry to consider the abuses of former ministers, chief executives and other senior officials.

            The meaning of this document is that if the Romanovs are innocent like pigeons, then the Anglo-French cannot be accused of facilitating their execution. Why would they kill completely innocent Romanovs?! No even subtle hints of thick circumstances! It is impossible to offend allies categorically! Documentary in this note, except for the names, there is not a word. Rudnev writes:
            Considering that the task of my examination was of great importance in terms of elucidating the events that preceded and accompanied the revolution, I made copies of all the examination protocols that passed through my hands, documents, as well as from witness statements. Leaving Petrograd, I took all these copies with me to Yekaterinoslav, where they were kept in my apartment, but now, probably, they were looted when my apartment was destroyed by the Bolsheviks. If, beyond expectation, the copies of these documents are not destroyed, and I live to see the time when I have them in my hands, then I propose to publish them in the press in full, without drawing any conclusions or conclusions.
            Now I consider it necessary to present a brief outline of the characteristics of the main figures of that area, which was called by the press and public opinion "the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbdark forces", moreover, since this essay is compiled by me from memory, it will, of course, miss a lotperhaps some interesting details.
            - Damn Bolsheviks! Destroyed all copies of documents! It’s good that Rudnev has a phenomenal memory, so he remembered everything to write his note!
            Rudnev's note was intended for international use, copies of the documents were supposedly destroyed by vile Bolsheviks, so it was possible to lie selflessly. In this regard, it is very interesting, where did the originals of the documents copied by Rudnev go? The Bolsheviks in Petrograd and Lenin personally planned to try the Romanovs and were completely uninterested in the disappearance of the documents of their accusers. Quote, after which I hysterically whinnied like a horse:
            ... I came to the conclusion that, undoubtedly, in the life of Rasputin, a simple peasant of the Tobolsk province, there was some great and deep emotional experience that completely changed his psyche and forced him to turn to Christ, since only the presence of this sincere God-seeking Rasputin in that period of time, and his rapprochement with the indicated outstanding shepherds can be explained. This assumption of mine, based on a comparison of facts, was confirmed in Rasputin's illiterate memoirs of walking around the Holy Places. From this book, written by Grigory Rasputin, breathes naive simplicity and sincere sincerity. Relying on the assistance and authority of these archbishops, Grigory Rasputin was received at the Palaces of the Grand Duchess Anastasia and the Militia Nikolaev, and then through the latter he met Mr. Vyrubova, then still the maid of honor Taneeva and made a huge impression on her, a truly religious woman; finally, he ends up in the Royal Court. Here, apparently, his subdued low instincts awaken, and he turns into a subtle exploiter of the trust of High Persons in his holiness.
            - it must be so contrived to add a halo and angel wings to Grishka Rasputin!
            Now about Vyrubova:
            Soon [after Rasputin's blessing], this marriage that followed was completely unsuccessful, according to Mr. Taneeva, her daughter's husband turned out to be a complete impotent, but, moreover, with an extremely perverted sexual psyche, expressed in various manifestations of sadism, by which he caused indescribable moral suffering to his wife and caused a feeling of complete disgust. However, Mr. Vyrubova, mindful of the words of the Gospel “Even if God combines a person does not separate,” for a long time hid her moral feelings from everyone, and only after one case when she was on the verge of death on the basis of her husband’s sadistic sexual perversions, she decided to reveal to her mother their terrible family drama. The result of this recognition by Mr. Vyrubova was the dissolution of the marriage in the form prescribed by law. During the further investigation, these explanations of Mr. Taneeva about the illness of her daughter's husband were fully confirmed in the data of the medical examination of Mr. Vyrubova, carried out in May 1917 by order of the Extraordinary Investigative Commission, these data established with complete certainty that Mr. Vyrubova was a virgin.

            As you can see, according to the mother-in-law (mom, spit on your chest, the doctors ordered to rub with snake venom), the lieutenant "turned out to be a complete impotent, but, moreover, with an extremely perverted sexual psyche." - Valuable evidence!
            Unlike Rudnev and the mother-in-law of the unfortunate lieutenant, I have a different vision of this situation. In my youth, I happened to visit many garrisons, and everywhere I heard the same stories. Husband to work, lover to wife in bed. Caught on the hot, deeply offended wife with bruises ran to the authorities and political officer, after which the poor fellow was declared a domestic sadist.
            Vyrubova, entangled with Rasputin, who did not miss a single skirt, entered into a fictitious marriage to cover up her debauchery. A common thing for that time. There is no doubt that in marriage she regularly cuckolded the lieutenant and just as regularly received muzzles. His mother-in-law is a witness.
            As for the ChSK document about Vyrubova’s virginity, I don’t believe the tales that he just lay here in the most prominent place, the mouse ran, waved his tails and damn it. Re-read the passage about the holiness of Grishka Rasputin again. After such an outright lie, it is obvious that one does not respect oneself to believe Rudnev.
            1. 0
              15 November 2022 13: 17
              Quote: Old electrician
              After such an outright lie, it is obvious that one does not respect oneself to believe Rudnev.

              Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye, my friend.
              Quote: Old electrician
              after which I hysterically neighed like a horse:

              gee-gee-gee
            2. 0
              17 December 2022 22: 20
              In the 20s it was idiocy to attribute the executions of the emperors to the Bolsheviks - everyone knew that all the bosses - the Mensheviks - the Socialist-Revolutionaries, starting with Goloshchekin, were sitting in Eburg (Sverdlovsk). Behind them stood the workers' unions of the Urals - the Socialist-Revolutionary Menshevik unions of workers - hundreds of thousands. In 19 they refused to support the Mensheviks, and in 1918, almost all of them were not Bolsheviks, respectively. and the power in the Urals did not belong to the Bolsheviks at that moment of the execution of the highnesses. Today it has become a fanatical principle of history that the Bolsheviks shot, and a hundred years ago they would have laughed at what kind of Bolsheviks they were - they shot them in the Urals, they walked under guard. As soon as Sokolov arrived, he was to blame for the conclusions of the investigation, he combed the taiga - all the roads, at distances that the corpses could take away. The corpses rot - I searched by smell - I didn’t find anything, although they did serious work there. And since there were no corpses, he came to the conclusion about destruction. It didn't occur to him that the corpses could be immersed in water and there would be no rotting smell. And the Socialist-Revolutionary convicts supported this confidence, launched myths about acid, gasoline - maybe there was a backup plan for destruction, but they didn’t have time for plan “b”, for example. ROCOR cultivated for a hundred years what this team fed them - and the exact burial place lay in the archives, and Yeltsin stuck his snout into the archives, immediately went and dug up the remains of the Romanovs. This whole story is such a fake that you have to start over - it's a hopeless business, to attribute the murders to Sverdlov and Lenin, without unraveling, everything that was dragged into these executions for a hundred years. And this is a hopeless cause - today it does not fit into the policy of the party and government, united in ecstasy with church politics. They still do not recognize the remains from the Ganina Yama road as the remains of highnesses. What can you even talk about.
        2. +4
          14 November 2022 15: 42
          Nicholas II and his wife found no corpus delicti
          And it couldn’t be found, I explained above, they tried to condemn the regime, according to its own laws. The shooting on January 9, 1905, was quite legal in accordance with the current legislation.
        3. 0
          17 December 2022 22: 07
          They could not be monarchical - the whole society, from the years of the 1880s, was subject to one thought, that tsarism should be changed - to be done according to the type of Western tsarism. There were all monarchists, in the army there were old men over fifty, and all the youth were Republicans, except for the crazy and fanatics of "faith - tsar - fatherland." In principle, philosophically - Lenin - Stalin, there were the same monarchs who replaced the obsolete Romanovs. There is also such an opinion. The Whites were "Trotskyists" - a Socialist-Revolutionary or Menshevik type of party. Who won the same in 1985 - we live in Trotskyism, according to the structure of the country. You write correctly - but it’s even funnier there, if not the circumstances: When the whites approached Orel, they were all republicans, and when they had to go back from Orel, they began to sing on their six-string guitars, their White Guard songs for the king. This ridiculous paradox did not begin in emigration - when whites were lucky, they were all party members, but how unlucky - believing monarchists. Then there was the age of cynics - people put on ideology, as they changed clothes. "Reds have come - change your trousers"
    2. 0
      17 December 2022 11: 02
      The Yusupovs were the second most influential people from the royal house. Grisha was not a favorite of Nicholas 2, he even disliked him, but was a favorite of the empress. The Yusupovs, on the eve of the brutal execution of the "old man", came in the person of the emperor's uncle to Nikolai and the uncle demanded that Rasputin be removed from the capital, and that a duma government be installed, or the government be replaced. A date was set for Nikolai's answer, he did nothing, and Grisha was killed. The people there were surprised that the royal family, in addition to Nicholas, sided with the parliament. They said about the revolution that it could not be avoided after the war, but the war dragged on, they decided to carry it out during the war. Nikolay, after the shame of 1905, did not sign anything, a priori, did not go to any deals, he realized that if he signed something today - the expulsion of Grisha, a change of government, the very basis of the state, a change at _another_ will, - then tomorrow it forced to sign an abdication of the throne. Therefore, such a cataclysm happened - the king morally did not consider it possible to make deals, others, including the royal house, could not physically live in the old way. And they describe how disgustingly Grisha allowed himself to behave, even in relation to princesses, youngsters - he was a psycho-sexopath - in a Russian village that does not differ in moral character, such nicknames are not given just like that, you had to be a maniac to be called Slutty , - the king was not, what kind of influence on the king is there - they made another scapegoat out of Grisha, a lightning rod. He suited everyone dead, both the king and society, except for the queen, who had sentimental feelings for him.
  8. +7
    14 November 2022 09: 19
    Only a dumb and blind person does not understand that an article about events more than a century ago is an excuse for a conversation
    about today.
    About where Russia will come soon.
    Do you have your own Milyukovs, Cicerons and other magicians now?
    Or should we rely on the opinion of the most patriotic patriots from the State Duma or the Federation Council? And where the curve will lead.
    1. +7
      14 November 2022 11: 17
      Alexander,
      greetings, the article was written about seven years ago, I even forgot about it, but then they began to write a lot about Milyukov and his speech, so I decided to publish it ..
      1. +3
        14 November 2022 15: 34
        Edward, good afternoon!
        I willingly believe that the article is seven years old, but more relevant than ever. hi
      2. -1
        14 November 2022 18: 12
        and then they began to write a lot about Milyukov and his speech

        Why?))) Where, it would seem, is Milyukov and where are we already .... After which you can recall the knowledge of history by the shirnarmasses and breathe recourse
      3. 0
        15 November 2022 07: 37
        Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
        the article was written seven years ago

        This article could have been written 20 years ago...
        1. +2
          15 November 2022 09: 49
          Yes, I completely agree with you, this article could have been written right after 1917. Without irony.
          Well, it happened the way it did. She was part of a big job. hi
          1. +2
            15 November 2022 09: 59
            Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
            this article could have been written right after 1917

            I can't agree with you here, I'm sorry...
            1. +2
              15 November 2022 11: 43
              And here I will not argue with you!
              Because the opinion of each of us is his inalienable right. That's where we stand)
              hi
  9. +1
    14 November 2022 09: 58
    When our country began to depend on circumstances, changes began. At that time there was a dependence on the work of foreign companies in our territory. In huge quantities, imports and exports can bring down any country. The USSR became dependent on grain imports. We have become dependent on exports. Any reduction in exports affects the work of the state. It should not be. But it is.
  10. +3
    14 November 2022 10: 02
    Quote: ee2100
    Do you have your own Milyukovs, Cicerons and other magicians now?

    Some are already gone, and those are far away. (C)
    The political field of Russia has been cleared "to hell". Around the "guarantor" - scorched earth, where only reptiles crawl, yes reptiloids.
  11. +2
    14 November 2022 10: 26
    The “shell” crisis began already in December 1916

    Typo? in 1914
    Greetings Edward! hi
    1. +2
      14 November 2022 10: 51
      Typo. Shell hunger began in December 1914, by 1916 it had already been overcome.
    2. +1
      14 November 2022 11: 16
      Greetings !!!
      Yes ... a typo.
      If I could overcome...
      1. +4
        14 November 2022 11: 32
        Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
        If I could overcome...

        Well, there is evidence that shells fired in WWI and WWII were fired. That is, it was enough for the GW and for conflicts ...
        and forever without cartridges against external enemies (Russian-Japanese War)

        And what was wrong with the cartridges in the REV?
        1. +6
          14 November 2022 12: 01
          You know, it's a figure of speech. But here is from Kuropatkin:
          Then, during the hostilities, the insufficiency of the set of shells we had adopted became clear. Despite the supplies of projectiles (cartridges) sent for rapid-fire artillery, during the days of the battles near Liaoyang, Shah and Mukden, we almost used up our entire supply, and replenishing it required a long time after each of these main battles.

          According to the reports of the Military Ministry, it can be seen that in 1904 it was ordered and completed: pack machine guns - 246, completed - 16; machine guns on carriages - 411, completed - 56; high-explosive melinite shells - 25, not completed; high-explosive bombs for a 600-inch field mortar - 6, not completed; rapid-fire howitzers - 18, not completed; mountain guns - 000, completed - 48.

          The Republic of Ingushetia has not won a single war against a capitalist country or embarked on the path of capitalism, under capitalism, and the conclusions are obvious.
          1. +4
            14 November 2022 13: 06
            Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
            But here is from Kuropatkin:

            It would be strange if Alexei Nikolaevich wrote something else. But Rediger wrote that after the war, huge unused stocks of ammunition, including shells, remained in the Far East. As for the costs
            In 1907 (I don’t remember when) a new size of combat kit for field artillery was approved, one thousand rounds per gun; to determine this figure, the size of the consumption of cartridges during the Japanese war was first clarified; it turned out that we spent less than one combat set (660) on the gun.
            problems, of course, took place, but no shell or cartridge hunger was observed.
            Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
            According to the reports of the Military Ministry, it can be seen that in 1904 it was ordered and completed: pack machine guns - 246, completed - 16; machine guns on carriages - 411, completed - 56

            Oddly enough, with machine guns, things were much better with us than with the Japanese.
            Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
            The Republic of Ingushetia has not won a single war against a capitalist country or embarked on the path of capitalism, under capitalism, and the conclusions are obvious.

            Can you remind me which war the German Empire, formed in 1871, won?
            Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
            The conclusions are obvious.

            Yes
            1. +4
              14 November 2022 13: 46
              I do not quite understand our picks. laughing
              The Russo-Japanese War ended in defeat, which means that the cartridges were used "irrationally", which is obvious.
              We are with cartridges but without Port Arthur, squadrons and Sakhalin.
              And what about Germany? It was created "with iron and blood", just in the battles when German capitalism was eager for hegemony, defeating little Denmark and Austria-Hungary, and France.
              And RI under capitalism only lost all the wars ...
              What's wrong here?
              What are you trying to argue about? laughing
              1. +2
                14 November 2022 14: 16
                Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                The Russo-Japanese War ended in defeat, which means that the cartridges were used "irrationally", which is obvious.

                Sorry, who wrote this?
                and forever without cartridges against external enemies (Russian-Japanese War)

                Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                what about Germany?

                As an example of the incorrectness of your criteria :))
                Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                defeating little Denmark

                It was Prussia.
                Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                Denmark

                Also Prussia.
                Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                Austria-Hungary

                She is.
                Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                and France

                Do you remember what the war was called? Need Franco-German?
                Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                What are you trying to argue about?

                God forbid! I'm just pointing out that at least some of your arguments are, let's say, slightly flawed. hi
                1. +1
                  14 November 2022 14: 23
                  I'm just pointing out that at least some of your arguments are, let's say, slightly flawed.

                  Your right, this is just casuistry that does not change the essence.
                  1. +2
                    14 November 2022 17: 25
                    In general, yes. Clinging to particulars feel
                    Although KMK should be refuted in this way, casting doubt on the theses and methodology.
                    But in general, if you look closely, the position of Russia differed little from other countries. In the same Germany or France, the authorities stole no less and made mistakes. But "to the foundation, and then" it happened with us ...
                    1. +2
                      14 November 2022 18: 02
                      Ivan,
                      here is a long story.
                      it's not about theft ... You may have read what I wrote here on VO.
                      Russia turned out to be like this because cap. relations were just being formed, in contrast to France and Britain. The fight was between two groups of cap countries for a place in the sun, and RI was fastened to this fight.
                      Prior to this, the Russian Federation successfully traded with Germany and received loans from France (if very simple) - loans won.
                      hi
        2. +3
          14 November 2022 13: 44
          During the Russo-Japanese war, about which you write "REV", one of my grandfathers was an artilleryman. The Russian Empire may have had shells, but not at the front, and the battery, which included my grandfather, sat without shells. Finally, they were informed that a freight car had arrived at the station for them. At the battery, they complained that one car was certainly not enough, but even one car was still better than nothing at all. Joyful, they arrived at the station for unloading and opened the car. Alas and ah! Instead of shells, the carriage was full of icons right up to the ceiling. Otherwise, a beautiful marquise ...
          1. +3
            14 November 2022 14: 08
            Quote: Old electrician
            Instead of shells, the carriage was full of icons right up to the ceiling.

            EMNIP, it was in Mukden, and the icons became trophies of the Japanese.
          2. +4
            14 November 2022 14: 39
            Quote: Old electrician
            one of my grandfathers was an artilleryman.

            You know, I'm a late son of a late son. But with all this, during the REV, my grandfathers walked under the table on foot. So at best great-grandfather. This is the first.
            The wagons then were not very load-bearing, but they could carry twenty tons. The 87mm projectile of the field gun mod 1877 and its modification 1895 had a weight slightly less than seven kilograms. Charge another kilo. That is, shot +\- 8kg
            That is, there are about 2.500 shells in the car, or 312 for one gun. This is if the battery in the old states, in the sense, is eight-gun. If the guns are new, then the shells are lighter, and there are fewer guns.
            On average, one field gun in that war fired about 660 shells. That is, they brought ammunition to half the war right away. In other words, there was no reason to moan that there were not enough shells before the unloading began. This is the second.
            Even if this is true, what am I personally not sure what it says, besides the fact that one battery had a bad time with shells at some point?
        3. 0
          14 November 2022 18: 17
          And what was wrong with the cartridges in the REV?

          Yes, the same as always .... Let's say, for a long time it was said that before the Second World War we had absolutely nothing and everything was lacking. Against the backdrop of a terribly aggressive Germany .... Even prominent military leaders in their .... writings wrote this ....
          against this background, it’s terrifying to imagine what will be written about .... recent events feel
  12. +3
    14 November 2022 10: 57
    Quote: Region-25.rus
    Well, you remembered! laughing
    well, so .. the brightest representative of the aforementioned cohort (by the way, where is he?) laughing


    Personally, I got the impression that the Moldovan authorities are much better at blocking banned sites than our RKN.
  13. +1
    14 November 2022 11: 14
    Quote: denplot
    Typo. Shell hunger began in December 1914, by 1916 it had already been overcome.

    The Web has data on the production of weapons in the warring countries of the WWII period. So please don’t ..... It may be overcome, but the guns were produced many times less.

    But Milyukov simply said that "the king is naked" .... which gave the impression of an exploding bomb. . Strelkov said the same thing in March of this year. But unfortunately it didn't impress.

    It is possible, therefore, that the consequences will be worse. For we have completely froze our brains and do not see parallels with what happened a hundred years ago.

    For example, from 2007 to 2020, one and a half hundred Iskander missiles were produced. It's a lot?
    Self-propelled guns with caliber 203 and more have not been produced since 1990 ... and what is now is hidden in darkness ....
    Author Respect.
  14. +3
    14 November 2022 12: 59
    But personally, I don’t see any parallels between today and a century ago. That is, nothing in common. There are no social or economic contradictions in Russia today that would be deep enough to give rise to civil unrest. The army, police and special services are completely under the control of the state, just like most of the media, the economy is working, everyone has goods of first, second and third necessity, well, except for very marginal individuals who do not want to work at all, civil liberties - at least a pond a dime a dozen, as for me, it’s even too much, you can cut something down ...
    Who is missing something? Well, just be honest. smile
    Who goes to opposition rallies there? Makarevich with Sobchak and other vitorgans? Lyokha Navalny with his kindergarten?
    So, colleagues, this is not a social contradiction, not an economic one. These are simply conflicts of interest of several individuals, largely artificially inflated by our Western partners. In other words, the battle for the feeder, for the right to distribute wealth.
    Milyukovs, Guchkovs and other Kerenskys have always been enough in any era and in any corner of the globe, and they have never decided anything anywhere. Even now they frolic, in any electrical device, like lice have bred, they have no number ... So what? Even if among them are not only the clown-demagogue Kerensky, the refined snot Milyukov and the rollicking foul-mouthed Guchkov (and we now have only such), even if among them are the most natural living Lenin, Trotsky, Sverdlov and other comrades who managed to build a hundred years ago the world's first socialist state, now they would break off specifically, because the situation in the country is not at all the same.
    We live, no matter how strange it may seem to some, in a prosperous capitalist country and the vast majority of our compatriots are happy with everything in it, and those who want changes for the better want them exclusively for themselves.
    You should not compare the Russian Empire and the Russian Federation - these are two completely different states, to draw parallels between them - an occupation akin, in my opinion, to pulling on the globe not even an owl, but a titmouse. smile
    1. +2
      14 November 2022 16: 29
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      But personally, I don’t see any parallels between today and a century ago.

      I agree with you Michael completely! hi
      Who goes to opposition rallies there?
      I would also add to the list of "well-fed rebellion" ...
    2. +1
      14 November 2022 23: 17
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      civil liberties - at least a dime a dozen, as for me, it’s even too much, you can cut something down ...

      moreover, the authorities can afford not to give hard labor for life, but to put them in jail for 15 days ...
    3. +1
      15 November 2022 19: 20
      I agree. Today and that day does not contain a direct analogy. Any mass protest in modern Russia can be either social or from a "feeling of national insult." Now the prerequisites can only be "wanged", they are not visible. But if there is a worsening of the economic situation, worsening (not a bad situation, but worsening) at the front, then only in this case can we speak of the appearance of prerequisites.
      1. +1
        16 November 2022 08: 06
        deterioration (not a bad situation, namely deterioration) at the front

        What is meant by this word "deterioration" - the battles for Belgorod?
        1. 0
          16 November 2022 09: 52
          I think there will be (if there is, of course) the loss of Melitopol earlier.
  15. +2
    14 November 2022 13: 24
    Quote: Senior Sailor
    Well, there is evidence that shells fired in WWI and WWII were fired. That is, it was enough for the GW and for conflicts ...


    Not for all positions. For field guns - yes. For heavy long-range artillery (divisional, corps) - no.
    And one should not lose sight of the fact that the supply of shells also depends on the number of guns, the equipment of units and formations with them. If there are few guns, it is easier to provide them with shells.
    1. +2
      14 November 2022 14: 44
      Here, I would probably agree.
      But the devil is always in the details...
  16. +2
    14 November 2022 13: 31
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    We live, no matter how strange it may seem to some, in a prosperous capitalist country and the vast majority of our compatriots are happy with everything in it, and those who want changes for the better want them exclusively for themselves.


    A very controversial conclusion. Yes, the people as a whole are politically passive, but not because they live well.
    There are objective indicators of well-being, by the way, giving an assessment to the subjective ideas of citizens about the quality of their life.
    The spread of alcoholism, drug addiction, escapism (escape from reality), the number of suicides, the spread of openly negative youth subcultures (do you know what "Blue Whale" means?), etc. We are not so prosperous.
    And the passivity of citizens is explained by the spread of elementary fear of change and disbelief in the future (futurophobia). Our people have learned from bitter experience that any changes, any reforms are at their expense and only worsen the situation of ordinary people. It's better to leave it as it is.

    - What Russian does not like fast driving?
    - The one they ride.
    1. +2
      14 November 2022 15: 51
      Quote: Illanatol
      We are not so prosperous.

      Russia, of course, is not the most prosperous state on the planet, but, nevertheless, it is a state in which the average person lives quite comfortably and is provided with everything necessary, from cheap food to universal secondary education and free medical care.
      And everything else is somewhere worse, somewhere better. And this is in our climate, when life, in general, is more expensive and more difficult.
      1. +3
        14 November 2022 16: 35
        the average person lives quite comfortably and is provided with everything necessary, from cheap grub to universal secondary education and free medical care

        Directly Argentina according to the description. )))
        Actually, this is the root of the problems of the last 20 years and is laid. Being Argentina, the country by inertia thinks that it is the USSR.
        1. +1
          14 November 2022 17: 44
          Quote: Nefarious skeptic
          Being Argentina, the country by inertia thinks that it is the USSR.

          They said everything correctly.
      2. +4
        15 November 2022 09: 20
        In the USSR, the present was sacrificed for the sake of the future.
        How a thrifty farmer saves grain in the spring to leave more for sowing.
        The current Russian Federation continues to eat away the Soviet legacy. How an alcoholic husband drinks away property after the loss of a strict but zealous wife. Well, vodka and snacks are in abundance - take a walk, I don’t want to!
        But what is the future of a country that lives only in the present, doing little for the future, for its own development?
        We have real development prospects only in a few sectors. Well, the fuel and energy complex ... even with the military-industrial complex there are more problems than previously thought.
        And calls, including external ones, are through the roof.
        A comfortable life for the average person? Alas, even here the trend is rather negative.

        About objective difficulties (climate, geography, etc.) - this is a common place, no one argues.

        But about universal secondary education ... it is just right to call it "universal lower secondary education."
        Free medical care? Apparently, they have not been to the clinics for a long time. Or live in Nerezinovoy, terribly far from us poor provincials. The quality of our medical care and its availability (taking into account the "optimization" of the number of medical workers) is not bad material for Kafka or Ionesco.
        1. +1
          15 November 2022 11: 23
          Quote: Illanatol
          The current Russian Federation continues to eat away the Soviet legacy.

          Not without it. But, to be honest, it’s not entirely clear to me how you can compare the Russian Federation and the USSR in principle. These are two completely different states, comparing them is like comparing the first arquebuses with the latest models of crossbows.
          Quote: Illanatol
          live in Nerezinovoy

          I live in the Leningrad region, I go to the clinic in the district center, but more often I go to our village outpatient clinic. I don't have any problems with service.
          As for education, it has, of course, dipped dramatically over the past decades, I agree here, but I don’t quite understand why they are trying to compare it with Soviet education. It's about the demand for staff. Whoever is needed is prepared.
  17. +5
    14 November 2022 13: 45
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    There are no social or economic contradictions in Russia today that would be deep enough to give rise to civil unrest. The army, police and special services are completely under the control of the state, just like most of the media, the economy is working, everyone has goods of first, second and third necessity, well, except for very marginal individuals who do not want to work at all, civil liberties - at least a pond a dime a dozen, as for me, it’s even too much, you can cut something down ...

    I understand that the theory of parallel universes has found a vivid confirmation! A representative of the Earth-2 civilization has contacted us, the inhabitants of Earth-1!!! fellow hi
    1. +1
      14 November 2022 15: 38
      What are you personally lacking?
      In food? Clothes? Medicines? Maybe you don’t have transport, they don’t heat in your houses, you run to the river to get water? Electricity with the Internet, that is, do not complain?
      What is missing, unfortunate inhabitant of Earth-2?
      1. +1
        15 November 2022 19: 28
        The question here is what to compare. I do not have enough salary, as in Norway (albeit with their price level) and that the employer kicked me out of work after an 8-hour working day :). I miss the twice-a-year vacation in the Cyclades, as newcomers do in Germany. I lack the confidence in my pension level if I work like the damn New Zealanders have. And so, yes, according to the criteria of the early-mid 20th century, everything is fine. But you yourself suggested above not to compare the USSR and Russia. But then it is not necessary to be guided by ideas about the "beautiful" at that time.
        1. -1
          15 November 2022 21: 23
          Having received all of the above, you will reach the next level of consumption, and there are an infinite number of them. Wishlist is not an indicator. There is a basic set of material goods offered by the state to the average citizen, and in Russia this basic set is more than tolerable. And it is necessary to compare not with the USSR who died in the Bose, but with his contemporaries. We are middle peasants, living quite decently with the prospect of living a little better in the near future.
          1. +1
            15 November 2022 22: 04
            Having received all of the above, you will reach the next level of consumption, and there are an infinite number of them. Wishlist is not an indicator. There is a basic set of material goods offered by the state to the average citizen

            And why did you decide that the "basic set", after which you need to stop "wanting" and limit yourself, should be in the view of the 50-60s?
            in Russia, this basic set is more than tolerable

            Again - nothing to compare. With Africa, yes. From Germany? No.
            And it is necessary to compare not with the USSR who died in the Bose, but with his contemporaries.

            So I compare with the leaders in terms of the quality of life, and you offer as a criterion - some "old-fashioned" "sets of material goods" from the 50-60s of the twentieth century.
            1. 0
              15 November 2022 23: 32
              You didn't read my comment carefully.
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              We are middle peasants, living quite decently with the prospect of living a little better in the near future.

              Read more carefully next time and don't make me repeat myself.
              1. +2
                16 November 2022 17: 32
                I have read this thread carefully.
                Russia, of course, is not the most prosperous state on the planet, but, nevertheless, it is a state in which the average person lives quite comfortably and is provided with everything necessary, from cheap food to universal secondary education and free medical care.

                it is not entirely clear how one can compare the Russian Federation and the USSR in principle. These are two completely different states, comparing them is like comparing the first arquebuses with the latest crossbows

                In food? Clothes? Medicines? Maybe you don’t have transport, they don’t heat in your houses, you run to the river to get water? Electricity with the Internet, that is, do not complain? What is missing, unfortunate inhabitant of Earth-2?

                There is a basic set of material goods offered by the state to the average citizen, and in Russia this basic set is more than tolerable.

                it is necessary to compare not with the USSR who died in the Bose, but with his contemporaries.

                You say that we correspond to some "average" indicator. And you determine this average from what highs and lows? The standard of living in the Central African Republic and the standard of living in Singapore? Or leaders and outsiders of the OECD? Unclear. Then you talk about what cannot be compared with the USSR, but immediately bring up the "set of material goods" that was in the USSR before the era of total shortages - normal education, healthcare, cheap food, working public transport. Unclear.
                Read more carefully next time and don't make me repeat myself.

                Alaverdi to you: next time formulate your statements more clearly and consistently so that there are no questions.
        2. 0
          17 December 2022 02: 49
          The price level adjusts the realities of Norway eg. under the collective west of the life of an ordinary person. That is, you will be left one hundred euros for life, and this bar will be everywhere. Nobody will exceed it - they give the cattle to motivate them to plow, (with your formal officials - who come to watch so that they don’t exploit you, or rather, tear off a fine, from the contractor, their bread) - they give you exactly as much as they calculated - and the surplus economies are covered by the price level. Russia, on the contrary, did not fit into this scheme, because it is a sucker to suck under a bridge - the level is different for countries - it's just to become a sucker, what they offer, therefore the war, including. On the contrary, we need to hold on to our own, and not to Norway - we found two villages - and why the United States no longer seduces you, perezzhalshchikov, before local suckers said "I want it like in America" ​​- they had a labor code, with criminal punishment for violation, and not the official runs around to "take care" collects fines. And they wanted to go to America - immigrants are sitting under the bridge, and now they want to go to Norway - has this new generation of idiots grown up? From Norway, on the contrary, they go to the USA, this is a village - but from Zealand to Australia and America - I was not there, there were just fools who went there, around the world, they were looking for happiness - everywhere the same thing - work to get through the day . Democracy has been abolished all over the world, forget it.
  18. +2
    14 November 2022 13: 48
    and the creation of a farmer-fist.
    The farmer and the fist are antagonists. The farmer lives from the land, the kulak from the capital. The farmer gets credit from the bank (because there is something for it), and not from the kulak, which ruins the kulak. Stolypin tried to fight the fists, who were strangling the village, but lost.
    "The feeling that Russia was run at best by lunatics and at worst by traitors was universal."
    Now someone will rake for discrediting and will explain to the investigator where his accomplice Obolensky is hiding.
    As a result, the monarchs of Germany, Austria-Hungary, and the Ottoman Empire lost their crown.
    But the monarch of England for some reason did not lose the crown then. And still. Disorder.
    So, we have come to the third question of the theorem: is the action of “petrels” and the like in the period of complex political vicissitudes of history legitimate from the point of view of morality? Especially in the face of an exacerbated external threat?
    If the cries of the "petrels" pose a threat to the state, then it is already rotten and stinks.
    1. 0
      15 November 2022 19: 32
      The farmer and the fist are antagonists. The farmer lives from the land, the kulak from the capital. The farmer gets credit from the bank (because there is something for it), and not from the kulak, which ruins the kulak. Stolypin tried to fight the fists, who were strangling the village, but lost.

      Exactly! It was the kulaks who held on to the community and did not allow them to leave it freely. This is already a Soviet legacy that kulaks were mixed with successful farmers. In tsarist times, the kulaks themselves did not work and carried out usurious operations.
      But I would not say that I lost - I did not have time.
  19. +1
    14 November 2022 13: 57
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    Who is missing something? Well, just be honest.
    Who goes to opposition rallies there? Makarevich with Sobchak and other vitorgans? Lyokha Navalny with his kindergarten?


    There are ratings of the countries of the world in terms of living standards. RF is now in place after #60. Near Columbia. The population is decreasing by hundreds of thousands a year, and everyone is happy .....And all this in the presence of the world's largest natural resources. And the USSR in 1988 was in 26th place, and the people were not happy. .. What to say ?... . Probably this is how it should be ...... so the brain was set up on TV .... If the population elects presidents for life, like Mikh Romanov in the 17th century, then he has the same needs ... We have a traditional "reserve of approval." ... When it is necessary, they are satisfied, when necessary, they are not satisfied ... Well, ... with you .... I remember very well how in the 90s they said: "There is bread, we will buy milk, what else? We will live! "
    But I guess it won't always be like this. After all, one day they will just finish it off. ... SO, TO BE HONEST .. IMHO- SUCH POOR WILL BE DONE
    1. +3
      14 November 2022 17: 42
      Quote: ort
      Close to Colombia.

      Yes, I've heard those songs. "They called the wrong country Honduras," and so on.
      Do you know what this is all about? In order to strengthen your spirit when you once again go to storm Upper Lars.
  20. 0
    14 November 2022 14: 32
    Quote: Region-25.rus
    I wonder what fans of "crunching a bun" will answer to the article? Olgovich Aw-o-o-o! hi

    They will begin to scream that everything was not so, that the monarchs idolized everyone and everything, but the evil liberals crawled out and destroyed everything in collusion with the Entente.
    And in general, in fact, it was the Russian Empire that had thousands of tanks and aircraft, while the French and British nervously smoked on the sidelines.
  21. +1
    14 November 2022 14: 40
    Milyukov the politician is clearly inferior to Milyukov the historian: the inevitability of change was obvious.

    Apparently, the university professor of history understood the past much better than the present.
    And besides this speech, he hammered an even bigger nail into the coffin of the Republic of Ingushetia, announcing from the Duma rostrum that the war was being waged for the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles, which caused a sharp rejection of these war goals among the peasant and soldier (consisting of the same peasants) masses. "For the Faith, the Tsar and the Fatherland" still somehow supported the remnants of morale in the troops, but after the announcement of such goals, the futility of continuing the war became more than obvious to them. hi
    1. +3
      14 November 2022 14: 55
      Apparently, the university professor of history understood the past much better than the present.

      Yes, not a very bad professor hi
    2. 0
      20 December 2022 00: 07
      Such "rotten" fruits as Milyukov or Pokrovsky could not be born from a healthy tree. And their teacher of their school of history, Igor Matveich Klyuchevsky, worked out the diseased tree there. It is a strange coincidence that the Klyuchevsky school immediately produced two historians - politicians - Milyukov and Pokrovsky, the latter even organized a school - today we would know a different story from textbooks if Trotskyism had not won. Klyuchevsky was not to blame - then there was not a single normal citizen who would not want to overthrow the tsar, and everyone did it in his post, as Lenin wrote - Russia was all armed against tsarism - who had a rifle, who had a cannon, who had history, whoever has biology - they totally wanted to overthrow tsarism, so Klyuchevsky walked in the stream of time, there were no people outside politics - and his students Milyukov and Pokrovsky and some other unknowns, due to weakness of the brain, did not pull the "little things" in which the devil is hidden . Stalin felt this well - when a person does not work out for his homeland. Milyukov from Klyuchevsky made such conclusions - even Trotsky would have been fucked with him, or bulk - he just lacked militancy. And Pokrovsky are people of science, but the teacher led them somewhere in the wrong direction. Everything is correct, but it required amendments - to make a more patriotic history - in Russia it is all built by the victims of the people, and not by logistics. This was an omission of Klyuchovsky, he, like a master, did not put the people in anything, and did not understand that these slaves made his whole history. He had the right to make these mistakes - he was a pioneer, and his students went into rampant demagoguery. The historian is good and the teacher is bad, it happens.
  22. -3
    14 November 2022 17: 52
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    Quote: ort
    Close to Colombia.

    Yes, I've heard those songs. "They called the wrong country Honduras," and so on.
    Do you know what this is all about? In order to strengthen your spirit when you once again go to storm Upper Lars.


    I know what I see. ... your arguments in the comments are amazing in their persuasiveness. As you read it, it immediately becomes clear what to believe and whom to send ..... through the forest. Judging by the number of people who fled "not Honduras" over the past 30 years, Honduras is in kind. Just to stay away from people like you....
    1. -2
      14 November 2022 19: 36
      So I sincerely wish you to be "away". laughing
  23. -6
    14 November 2022 19: 17
    Stupidity or treason?


    With regard to Milyukov, definitely treason.
    1. 0
      16 November 2022 06: 42
      Was he supposed to not rock the yacht or what?
      1. -1
        16 November 2022 18: 57
        Quote: Check
        And he should have
        don't become a traitor.
  24. +1
    15 November 2022 09: 28
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Being Argentina, the country by inertia thinks that it is the USSR.


    Against Argentina, no sanctions are imposed by the entire "collective West".
    Argentina is not on the UN Security Council.
    The United States did not agree on "strategic arms limitation" with Argentina.

    We will never be a "second Argentina", even if we really want to. Russia can exist only as a great power, or not exist at all. The latter option is preferable for many, but it may be associated with their own disappearance into oblivion.
    1. +1
      15 November 2022 10: 17
      Against Argentina, no sanctions are imposed by the entire "collective West".
      Argentina is not on the UN Security Council.
      The United States did not agree on "strategic arms limitation" with Argentina.

      And?
      We will never be a "second Argentina", even if we really want to.

      And above you yourself put Russia at the level of Argentina
      Quote: Illanatol
      But what is the future of a country that lives only in the present, doing little for the future, for its own development?
      We have real development prospects only in a few sectors. ...
      A comfortable life for the average person? Alas, even here the trend is rather negative.
  25. 0
    15 November 2022 13: 39
    A hint in the article as today: "a bunch of dark personalities manage the most important state affairs in personal and base interests?" And the king can't cope with them even today?
    1. 0
      16 November 2022 06: 41
      There are no hints about the current situation, but those who are friends with logic cannot fail to notice these parallels.
  26. 0
    15 November 2022 14: 19
    http://www.proatom.ru/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=10301
    The people who started the SVO had been methodically rolling the Russian defense industry into asphalt for many years, - a source in the Russian defense industry tells Novaya-Europe. - With the advent of Putin, a banal redistribution of the market began in the defense industry. The old director's building was breaking out. New "effective managers" came. Enterprises remained afloat, some of whose military products were aimed at export. Only due to this, the defense industry survived. Enterprises that did not have export potential at that time were destroyed, sold out, and now in their place are ruins or shopping centers.
    According to the Russian Defense Ministry, a total of 7 missiles were fired at targets in Syria between October 2015, 3 and November 2017, 99.

    - A typical American destroyer carries over 90 cruise missiles. And the United States has dozens of destroyers, - The Russian Federation has nothing of the kind. Russian missiles are launched from corvettes and frigates, which have only 8 or 16 launchers.

    According to the well-known VIKI, from 2007 to 2020, one and a half hundred Iskanders were produced in the Russian Federation. The scale is inspiring....

    Another reason to doubt the sufficiency of Russia's high-precision missiles is the use of S-300 anti-aircraft systems against ground targets. Such missiles in the ground-to-ground mode are guided quite approximately. At the same time, a powerful fragmentation warhead leads, when it hits a residential area, to numerous casualties among the unprotected civilian population.

    The Kinzhal missile system, with which Putin frightened the West, is the same Iskander suspended under the MIG-31 fighter-interceptor. Russia has few such missiles, according to our sources. Yes, and MIG-31s ​​modified to carry "Daggers" - only a few pieces.

    there is no production capacity for the production of missiles to replace those already spent in Russia. Back in 2018, at the Dubna Machine-Building Plant, the team protested against the management methods of AFK Sistema, which owned the enterprise. It was there that at the beginning of the 300s equipment was removed from Dnepropetrovsk and the production of X-series missiles was launched. Almaz-Antey, which produces Kalibra, S-400 and S-XNUMX, according to our source, has already begun to have problems with imported machines that have stopped due to sanctions.
    This is me out of pity for the "ros-patriots", whose feelings were carelessly offended ....
    Yes ... modern "ros-patriotism" is a serious disorder ...
    1. 0
      3 December 2022 10: 44
      You should not rejoice, vrazina. Russia will be able to solve problems because it is Russia, despite the fact that over the past 30 years they have brought up a lot of potential traitors (like you, who sow panic) by building thieves' capitalism. But the war still needs to shoot alarmists.
  27. +1
    15 November 2022 19: 00
    Of course, speech alone is not capable of causing any change. Prerequisites and conditions must be formed. If Milyukov hadn't said it, someone else would have. And if no one had said, then the events would still have developed as the circumstances developed.
    I do not agree with the characterization of Stolypin's activities, being, among other things, a descendant of those who went to Siberia under his program and worked diligently before collectivization. Stolypin precisely wanted the emergence of a class of free landowners who would be the support of the autocracy. He thought so. But looking back now at those times, it becomes clear that if this class gained strength, only limitation awaited the autocracy.
    1. 0
      17 December 2022 01: 49
      They were all 100% ruined - they became slaves to the New Siberian kulaks. That is, if you sell the house, get Stolypin's and a wagon for resettlement - in the first officially only 10% of the settlers died - there were no such statistics in the Gulag - in the second, if you sell the house and go to Siberia, you find yourself a slave - and nowhere to go. Two-thirds returned to Heb. part of Russia - it was easier to "shoot in the yard" than to stay in Siberia - despite the fact that those who went there to do business, they had 500 acres each, the usual put on. This allotment - all the lands of these settlers, they gave them away for nothing, so as not to die, not to fall into the "statistics" of corpses. Stalin correctly relocated - he sent the entire telegram, he even founded Israel there for Jews - on the border with China - but to teach fools, this time to waste - only to the wall. And the tsar was engaged in nonsense - not a single farm pulled five hectares - tithes necessary for the life of the family. Everything had to be surrendered and become a slave. And when they write today "my great-grandfather made good money there" - so he was a businessman, ruined the settlers - such was the Stolypin system - to make slaves and masters in the village even more clearly. And this is already fed up with everyone by the 20th century. Stolypin was the hangman of the village, a killer, not a creator. My great-grandmother, too, always had barns full of grain - and there were hungry corpses across the road, but I’m not saying, following the example of the grandmother, that everyone drove Mercedes there under the tsar and Stolypin, they found each other - Stolypin the hangman and Nikolai bloody - tell me how they lived there in Siberia with such a couple of "reformers",
      1. 0
        17 December 2022 11: 49
        We lived well. Maybe the local authorities were good, but everything worked out for them. Until one reptile, whom they took as workers, who lived with them and ate at the same table, informed the red commissars that they were hiding "bread", which he himself hid in secret. They were exiled even further to the east, with the land to the collective farm, where later the collective farmers for stealing him and decided.
        1. 0
          19 December 2022 23: 52
          We were expelled from the region - 1, 2 almost, percent - there was a kulak region, even Jews colonized under the tsars, they mastered summer cottages. It was possible to plant everyone in a row - only fists. And what is the most stubborn - that's it Russian kulaks, even middle peasants, left for Siberia and built a city. They have already died of old age, but you could still find these citizens in the 90s. They lived well everywhere, and in Siberia they were appreciated - no one was offended by owls. power. Dad - grandfather, stubborn, they were evicted because of them as children, worked out, but understood the meaning of the Great Soviet - dugouts arrived, they set up, like the pioneers of Yarmak - the Arctic. They left there a city with tetras, bridges and northern allowances - there was a field, a city became. Today, of course, it has become a little back - there was a city, there was an undeveloped field. There was a place for kulaks there, they were hard-working, economic, they adjusted everything there, returned home under Khrushchev and honestly died of old age.
  28. +1
    15 November 2022 23: 51
    It was not the Bolsheviks who staged the revolution, but the big bourgeoisie. "National". They were afraid that Nicholas II would come out victorious and they would not see power again for thirty years. They didn't keep it. And now they won't.
    By the way, the "national bourgeoisie" are mainly Old Believers, Old Believers. Very cohesive. In their factories, mostly co-religionists worked. We started out as shareholders.
    Only reverse privatization can save the country. Otherwise, Ukrainization awaits us. Want to?
  29. 0
    16 November 2022 06: 38
    I just read it today, but a very interesting article.
    For twenty years, the emperor formed the system of governing the country, where during the crisis period, at the moment of the need to exert all forces, the managers turned out to be cowards, deceivers and traitors.

    About historical parallels, only the lazy did not write here. Of course, at the moment of 1916, we cannot fully feel what nuances influenced what exactly, but the general conclusions seem undeniable.
    And about the current situation: If something looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it is ....
  30. +1
    16 November 2022 08: 38

    Quote: Trilobite Master

    Not without it. But, to be honest, it’s not entirely clear to me how you can compare the Russian Federation and the USSR in principle. These are two completely different states, comparing them is like comparing the first arquebuses with the latest models of crossbows.


    Indeed, how to compare. We have entire industries ceased to exist.
    The level of technological dependence has increased many times over, the depreciation of fixed assets is growing.
    And not an arquebus or a crossbow. Rusty incomplete piece of iron ...

    Quote: Trilobite Master

    As for education, it has, of course, dipped dramatically over the past decades, I agree here, but I don’t quite understand why they are trying to compare it with Soviet education. It's about the demand for staff. Whoever is needed is prepared.


    Need - who? State? Country?
    Maybe, at least, "effective owners"?
    You're definitely from another planet, it seems...
    Education in our country is just a business area, they stupidly cut the loot on training. And no one cares who and how the trainees will work after receiving a diploma.
    Do you even know what percentage of university graduates work in their specialty?
    Considering that almost 80% of us receive higher education ( tongue ) education, the country should resemble Singapore with super-developed high-tech. So many graduates. But in fact?
    Many go to the university to kick banks, sitting on the neck of their parents, and hang out from the army, at least for a while. And having received a diploma - "sales manager", well, or wipe your pants in my father's office ...
  31. 0
    16 November 2022 08: 50
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    And above you yourself put Russia at the level of Argentina


    Do not distort.
    For Argentina, being a second (or even third) rank country is the norm.
    For Russia - no, this is a deviation from the norm, which cannot last long.
    Argentina can remain a second-rate and dependent country for as long as you like. We are not. Otherwise, we simply cease to exist.
    Argentina, by and large, is of little interest to anyone. We, even with all our problems, are in the focus of attention. It looks like a wedge of white light has converged on us (and not white - too).
  32. 0
    16 November 2022 08: 54
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    We are middle peasants, living quite decently with the prospect of living a little better in the near future.


    Our prospects are different now. The spectrum is very wide. Up to the possibility of turning into a radioactive suspension in the stratosphere ... "going to Heaven," as the Garant put it.

    You even begin to envy such optimism a little. laughing
  33. 0
    17 December 2022 01: 28
    Stupidity And betrayal - that's how it meant. These words are identical, and Milyukov could not help but "declare a revolution" in the Duma, in Parliament. The list of ministers already existed, even when Grisha the Dissolute did not go to his swim, ice sports. He was in the hands of the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and was provided to Nikolai and his wife at the same time by the same minister. But Milyukov announced something like a revolution, accusing the saint Nikolai Sanych of terrible sins. Legally, the Duma had the right to such claims - there is no paradox in this. Since 1916, the country has been bourgeois-capitalist under the tsar and parliament - two authorities. Two - when one does not work, the second one takes all the power - that is, the parliament, respectively. The Duma was already preparing a government - which could have been appointed at the behest of the tsar, but he refused. But Milyukov had nowhere to go - for the whole 1905 year he traveled to England, where he talked with the lords, they sold him Balgaria, instead of the straits, as the outcome of the war. Therefore, he came to Russia as an obvious foreign agent, which is why he did not take up positions in the p. government - and England put him as "Kerensky", but of course no one bought into such a scam - and the royal servants came running - Milyukov had to declare a revolution, a speech in the Duma, so that he would not be quietly removed. By the way, the British proposed a suitable option - no one would ever give the straits to Russia, and Bulgaria could always be taken away, and no one needs it. The war with the Germans was resolved, and this was the first plan of the British - to change power to Milyukov, and the second was a spare plan, this was to bring the Bolsheviks to power and intern Russia, already with troops and not corrupt politicians. When, without Milyukov, in general, then, vr. the government collapsed - there remained Lvov's mother's zemstvo - and accompanying persons, and of course a teenager with unhealthy addictions to women's clothes got out, Kerensky - by November 16, the demolition of the tsar, Nicholas, his replacement with a minor tsar regented by Lvov - was a matter decided. Why is it surprising that the February Revolution is being written today as a sudden event - when Milyukov directly accused Nikolai - it was the parliament that accused the tsar of stupidity and betrayal - this was already a deposition, it only remained to wait how they would do it.
  34. +2
    13 January 2023 15: 28
    the reform of P. Stolypin began, which never set as its goal the creation of a certain “class of owners”. His task was to form a social base for the support of the monarchy and the monarch, through the expropriation of the peasantry and the creation of a farmer-fist.

    This crumb can be spread from anywhere, but the text will turn out to be no shorter than the article) I'll take only one piece.
    Let's look at this passage. How did the Stolypin reform solve the problem of "supporting the monarchy"? How did she even work? As you know, with small-scale private farming, based on the labor force of a man and using the memory of ancestors as a scientific basis for agricultural work, labor productivity is lower than low. One family of peasants of 5 people with great difficulty can feed only one person who is not engaged in agriculture. Let's say an official. It's all.
    What is a fist? This is a person who situationally got a better start. Let's say three sons have grown up, and for three or four years they have been producing more products together. Will such a master become a fist? Of course not. The only way to become such is the "correct" use of a temporary surplus of grain for example.
    Omitting the details, the kulak and his sub-kulakists are a village organized criminal group, entangling fellow villagers with debts that they are unable to repay. But it turns out for some time to significantly increase the collection of agricultural products. It's all. There is nothing more the kulak can do in the countryside. In principle, the kulak cannot organize the industrial production of food. No matter how you rob your own, there will never be enough money either to hire an agronomist or to buy the required number of agricultural machines. I recommend that the ignoramuses who remember the "American farmer" take a closer look at how it happened that this same farmer appeared ...
    So? The reform gave 5-6 years of a sharp increase in the collection of agricultural products, followed by a sharp drop (when the peasants would die out and scatter from such happiness). The kulak had a fair amount of land left, but the hungry laborers would not have raised productivity much by the old cave methods. Well, millions of former peasants pushed onto the roads of the Empire. Support for the monarchy just blossoms!
    Why did Stolypin do all this? He was the smartest man!
    The author is very much not equal to the topic raised. When a hippo looks at the moon, it wastes the flowers of its spleen (Vietnamese folk wisdom)
  35. -1
    17 January 2023 10: 43
    There are many moments in modern Putin's RF that are painfully similar to the situation in 1917 - failures in the war, impoverishment of the population, the dominance of the capitalists and the influence of the oligarchy on the power of Russia, the blatant incompetence and stupidity of the ruling circles of the country, which has already led to the needless death of thousands of Russian soldiers.