Military Review

When Kherson becomes Russian again

276
When Kherson becomes Russian again
Source: mpsh.ru



9.11.2022


November 9, 2022 will enter the Russian history. One of the most promising areas for a further Russian offensive has been lost - troops are being withdrawn to the left bank of the Dnieper. Emotionally, it's not easy. But now we need a cold look at the situation, allowing us to predict the further development of events. Recall that the events are played out on Russian territory, a considerable part of which is now occupied. I would like to believe that it is temporary.

The offensive potential of the Ukrainian army had noticeably decreased by the beginning of October, but this does not mean that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are not capable of conducting harassing and deadly fire for weeks and months. At the same time, the position of the Russian troops beyond the Dnieper was unique in its own way - only from here it was possible to organize an offensive both deep into Ukraine and in the direction of Nikolaev and Odessa.

But in the coming months, the Russian army, in all likelihood, will switch to strategic defense. And the Kherson ledge in this situation is a very vulnerable target. You can talk as much as you like about the loss of face, deceived hopes and the senselessness of what is happening, but one thing is important - the withdrawal of troops was a perfect military necessity. This happens when you have to make difficult and even fateful decisions. If a grouping of troops cannot be safely supplied, then its destruction becomes a matter of time. I emphasize that for this the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not even need offensive actions - they would grind the remnants of the troops with mortars, rockets and shells. And this is not the way in which the special operation should move.

Without at all justifying the persons making such decisions, let us ask the question - was it possible to prevent the events by destroying the Ukrainian infrastructure earlier? For example, to smash all the bridges across the Dnieper to smithereens?

No, this would not affect the position of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the right bank of the river. In a country in which almost all frame SUVs have been requisitioned for Bandera's needs, and shells are sometimes transported in the trunks of cars, it is very difficult to destroy logistics. The collapsed crossings across the Dnieper would seriously complicate the position of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the left bank, but this would not make it any easier for the Russian troops near Kherson. And maybe even worse.

The Kherson ledge had only one task - to use it as a springboard for a further offensive. Months of downtime on the defensive would inevitably lead to the situation we are seeing now. Just because behind our guys was the Dnieper with a small number of crossings. When the APU received weapon, allowing to destroy bridge crossings (we are talking about HIMARS), the situation became critical.

There is still an epic ahead with the withdrawal of thousands of Russian groups to the left bank of the Dnieper. Taking into account the fact that equipment and personnel will have to be transferred along pontoon crossings, this becomes a very difficult task. We hope that the Surovikin team will cope with this.

The commanders of units that retreat to the other side of the Dnieper must remind their subordinates that any equipment, even the most expensive and advanced, must be destroyed without delay if it is not possible to evacuate it. If there is no ammunition at hand for undermining, then a few liters of fuel are definitely at the disposal of any mechanized group.

Kharkov "lend-lease" should not be repeated. Unfortunately, the first signs are already there - Ukrainian sources testify to the discovery near Kherson of several Russian tanks, BMP and MLRS "Grad".

Unlike the “organized redeployment” near Kharkov, the withdrawal of troops from the left bank of the Dnieper shows that the initiative is currently in the hands of the Russian command. Although this is not an initiative in the offensive, at least the army does not run under the blows of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. In the general negative around the situation, it looks like a spoon of honey in a barrel of tar, but it is exactly so.

And now let's try to understand if Russia has a chance to return to the Russian city of Kherson.

Bad news


The trick with the redeployment of the Russian army across the Dnieper is that going back will be many times more difficult. As mentioned above, we must try to leave the right bank with the least losses, not to mention a second assault. The river becomes an excellent defense against the offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but it can also paralyze the return of Kherson back.

The predatory tactics of Bandera's troops add to the complexity - they will turn the city into ruins rather than leave it. A city with 244 years of history is in danger of being razed to the ground. Therefore, with a high degree of probability, plans to return Kherson under Russian jurisdiction can be said goodbye. At least until next spring. The defense of Kherson in November-December 2022 is completely different from the defense of February-March.

Forcing the Dnieper in conditions where the enemy on the opposite bank has organized a dense defense will be accompanied by gigantic casualties. Especially when all bridge crossings are destroyed. Therefore, the return to Kherson is possible only by land.

And here are a couple of options for the development of events.


Source: ura.ru

First option is the beheading of the Kyiv regime. Hypersonic, cruise and ballistic missile strikes, it doesn't matter. The physical destruction of the military-political leadership of Ukraine will temporarily cause the collapse of command and control.

Does Russia have the technical capabilities for such a step?

Certainly there is. It remains only to find the political will and the necessary justification. The way to the heart of Kherson lies in this case through Kyiv.

The second option - this is a breakthrough through the remaining intact Dnieper bridges and hydroelectric dams. The nearest one is in Novaya Kakhovka, which we hope will remain under Russian control for the time being. Although under the direct fire of the enemy.

This hydroelectric power station with a dilapidated roadway is generally an extremely complex facility. It thoroughly dams the upper reaches of the Dnieper, turning the river into an impassable Kakhovka reservoir for vehicles. For many tens of kilometers to the north there is not a single accessible crossing. Only in Zaporozhye there are two bridges - the First Bridge of Preobrazhensky and Vantovy. Slightly upstream hangs the body of the dam of the Dnieper hydroelectric power station, which again dams the river.

Will Zaporozhye become a new target for the Russian offensive?

Now it is very difficult to predict, but only along this shortest route can troops be transferred across the Dnieper to Kherson. Of course, in the case of compliance with the mass of conventions. The strike force of the Russian army should be at least three to five times the number of defenders. The tasks of the nationalists in Zaporozhye should not be the transformation of the city of 700 into ruins. The planning of the assault on the city must take into account the possible undermining of bridges by sappers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which means that it must be swift. As far as this is possible in the current realities, it is unnecessary to comment.

In the bottom line, we get the withdrawal of the Russian army across the Dnieper and the final switch to strategic defense. The goal is to hold the liberated territories. Given the low offensive potential of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, this period may become a turning point in the history of the special operation.
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  1. Dimcor
    Dimcor 13 November 2022 05: 48
    +40
    There are some oddities - it is written only from Kherson that it is possible to organize an offensive deep into Ukraine, while from Belarus it is easier to do this and this has already been done.
    1. Trunk
      Trunk 13 November 2022 06: 07
      +5
      I support. Occupy the western outskirts, Odessa and the supply of fuel and lubricants and ammunition will not. You can then just wait until the benderlogs eat each other.
      1. ananias mudishev
        ananias mudishev 13 November 2022 20: 03
        +6
        Can you tell us more about western Ukraine? What is your vision of the passage through western Ukraine?
      2. Chervony Biker
        Chervony Biker 15 November 2022 14: 00
        0
        To create a lot of trouble for the Wehrmacht's coming out in Odessa, it was enough and is - to neutralize the bridge across the Dniester in Mayaki. This is not a military secret, but evidence. But it seems that there are not only Ukrainian interests in the endless stream of trucks through the checkpoint Palanka.
    2. Thrifty
      Thrifty 13 November 2022 07: 34
      +81
      Eugene, with those who are in power in the Kremlin, leads my country, we will never return Kherson! Here, as if for the sake of the interests of the billionaires, the army did not run to my Rostov-on-Don, and you feed us fantasy. The surrender of the Kharkiv region was swallowed up by the Kremlin, there were no perpetrators, Kherson was shamefully surrendered for the sake of the selfish interests of Abramoysha, for his sake 6 billion dollars of stolen goods at the sale of the bowels of Russia. So, in the future there will be only a "reverse offensive" and the shameful silence of Putin as the leader of the country and the army, which is incapable of combat due to his efforts and optimizations.
      1. Dimcor
        Dimcor 13 November 2022 07: 50
        -55
        Something that the "non-combat-ready" army has already demilitarized half of Europe without particularly straining.
        1. Thrifty
          Thrifty 13 November 2022 08: 22
          +48
          DimCorvus-it’s not funny from such a comment yourself ??? According to your logic, then our army should be at least in Germany, and not retreat from Kherson !!!
          1. dmi.pris
            dmi.pris 13 November 2022 10: 05
            +21
            Actually, it’s getting uncomfortable here. There are so many people, either stupid, or writing for the sake of a nasty joke ... About "victories and offensives." We have already carried out our "Brusilov offensive." Probably people don't know what happened next. And not "critics" and ordinary people are to blame, but those who are at the very top
            1. Hanurik
              Hanurik 13 November 2022 15: 35
              +26
              What offensive? Since the beginning of the NWO, there has not been a single offensive. On the effect of surprise, we simply Drove as far as we could, and as soon as the Ukrainians began to fight, everything immediately stalled. NVO has already been lost, because one side has specific goals, while the other has come to stand near Kyiv in anticipation of negotiations. Do you understand? The goals of the NWO have already been achieved, but there are no new ones.
              1. Alexey Lantukh
                Alexey Lantukh 13 November 2022 16: 40
                +2
                What are the goals of the SVO? Donbass - demilitarization, denazification !!! And that's it!!! When they threw in the negotiations after Kyiv, Kharkiv, Zaporozhye and Kherson were added. Ukraine recaptured Kharkov. Obviously, Russia did not have anyone and how to protect Kharkovites. Remained Zaporozhye and Kherson. However, not everything is smooth here. It seems that our troops do not have enough ammunition and equipment, for which we need a break. Such are the conclusions.
                1. bayard
                  bayard 14 November 2022 01: 26
                  +5
                  Quote: Alexey Lantukh
                  It seems that our troops do not have enough ammunition and equipment, for which we need a break.

                  Our troops do not have enough personnel.
                  Mobilization has not yet brought its results - training / combat coordination continues. There will be "no new waves of mobilization", recruitment under the contract continues, but the pace is low.
                  Here are all the reasons - there is no one to fight. And those that are are fighting in a multiple minority.
                  1. TiRex
                    TiRex 14 November 2022 18: 55
                    0
                    I will support, there are much more troops needed, 600-800 thousand are definitely needed, this is without aviation, artillery and air defense
                    1. bayard
                      bayard 14 November 2022 20: 14
                      0
                      To advance and end this disgrace, you need at least a million. And in the active reserve (not on the theater of operations but under the gun) another half a million. Then you can fight.
                  2. Alexey Lantukh
                    Alexey Lantukh 14 November 2022 22: 25
                    0
                    Study the issue of supplying the LNR-DNR troops. They were supplied on a residual basis. I saw a video with soldiers in Red Army helmets with Degtyarov machine guns, and there were also reports that the soldiers had three-rulers. Khodorkovsky complained about the lack of shells. I don't know what to say about this. Either the General Staff considered the DNR-LNR not their own, or the supply was not in the arc, but it was like that. The production of ammunition in the 90s and 2000s was probably in decline, and the Soviet ones were spent on sale in Syria and simply written off due to unsuitability due to old age.
                    1. bayard
                      bayard 14 November 2022 22: 56
                      +3
                      Quote: Alexey Lantukh
                      Study the issue of supplying the LNR-DNR troops.

                      I myself am from Donetsk and knew about it from the very beginning. These are questions for curators. And yes - until quite recently, the corps were not their own, but allied forces for the RF Armed Forces. Rifles and iron helmets were handed out to the hastily mobilized, it was just that there was very little time, and they did not prepare stocks for mobilization - they assured that "There will be no war!" .
                      With shells, interruptions arose when successively "Haymars" blew up several operational ammunition depots. There were shortages of shells, and warehouses should be placed further from the front line.
                      1. Alexey Lantukh
                        Alexey Lantukh 15 November 2022 13: 07
                        +1
                        My knowledge of the war in the Donbass is, of course, superficial, armchair. However, something still comes out. Even the fact that Russia was not ready for a sufficiently long and extensive war.
          2. Dimcor
            Dimcor 13 November 2022 11: 12
            -16
            I wrote everything in fact, and you should be ashamed of what Germany did to you since you were going to fight with it?
            1. lis-ik
              lis-ik 13 November 2022 13: 31
              +12
              Quote from DimCorvus
              I wrote everything in fact, and you should be ashamed of what Germany did to you since you were going to fight with it?

              Sorry, you're delusional, just two mutually exclusive comments.
              1. Dimcor
                Dimcor 13 November 2022 14: 07
                -6
                You didn’t do the stuffing about Germany. Make claims to yourself.
                1. lis-ik
                  lis-ik 13 November 2022 14: 25
                  +4
                  Quote from DimCorvus
                  You didn’t do the stuffing about Germany. Make claims to yourself.

                  I didn't write anything about Germany. Be careful.
                  1. Dingo
                    Dingo 13 November 2022 14: 53
                    +2
                    Don't fall for the troll.

                    Sorry, I'm not smart enough to write a normal comment.
            2. AAK
              AAK 13 November 2022 15: 47
              +21
              The second most negative human vice after cowardice is stupidity ... Until our army liberated even a fifth of the territory of the former Ukrainian SSR, incl. under the same Donetsk for 9 months has not advanced even 50 km. Moreover, at the beginning of March, the territories under our control were three times larger than now. The fact that the correct outfit of forces and means was not selected for the liberation of Ukrainian territory, for the destruction of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and national formations, the needs of the rear were not assessed and provided for, and also that we lost most of the territories controlled at the beginning of March, is to blame before of all the Garant, as the guarantor of everything and everything in our country, as well as his inner circle, previously busy stuffing his pockets and kissing the heels of the Guarantor ...
              1. zenion
                zenion 13 November 2022 18: 55
                +9
                Is it not clear that the Ukrainian army is being lured into the taiga of Siberia. As soon as they are lured there, they will immediately release trained bears and they will devour the entire Ukrainian army. They don't even need to be buried. Not even a single cross. So it will be, as in those fairy tales, that the army entered and immediately got there, not knowing where, with the ends.
              2. Chervony Biker
                Chervony Biker 13 November 2022 22: 53
                +6
                Bitter ... But everything is correctly written. In exchange for the opportunity to trade in fertilizers and metal, they gave the Russian city.
              3. levfuks
                levfuks 14 November 2022 01: 27
                +3
                Quote: AAK
                the guarantor is primarily to blame, as the guarantor of everything and everything in our country

                This "mythical" character guarantees only a "favorable climate" for the business on which he relies and which supports him.
                "Babki" is the ideology of this state.
                Everything else is lyrics and fantasies of livestock. The people still believe empty talk.
        2. dmi.pris
          dmi.pris 13 November 2022 10: 04
          +31
          You will explain to thousands of mothers and fathers of our dead children about "not particularly straining" about the loss of equipment both on the ground and in the sky, we will not talk about it, it's iron.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
            1. dmi.pris
              dmi.pris 13 November 2022 11: 30
              +24
              I have already defended my own, I even earned a pension for "hot seniority" So they made a mistake with the address. Yes, I don't remember what I would have drunk on brudeschaft with you
              1. Mikhail Drabkin
                Mikhail Drabkin 14 November 2022 02: 25
                +1
                Thrifty:
                Kherson was shamefully surrendered for the sake of the selfish interests of Abramoysha, for his sake 6 billion dollars

                —- What happens EARLY is not the cause of what happens AFTER.

                —- Or if “after” happens to a known national minority (I write carefully so as not to be banned), then every bast in the line: the season of evidence is open that it is this national minority that is to blame.
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. Thrifty
          Thrifty 13 November 2022 08: 20
          +47
          Alekseev-YOU LIE! Where in my commentary did you find a call to change Putin? There is only a statement of the fact that the army is not ready for a long war, that in reality we do not have non-combat attack drones, nor reconnaissance equipment ... there is not much! , from the very beginning, infrastructure, transport interchanges, defense enterprises .... and constant agreements and gestures of goodwill are not selectively destroyed !!!
          1. Igor_Aretano
            Igor_Aretano 13 November 2022 18: 39
            -12
            Bye bye, tsipsokha. Yeah, you’re purely for Russia here, you’ll work off the hryvnia
          2. levfuks
            levfuks 14 November 2022 01: 41
            -1
            Quote: Thrifty
            Alekseev-YOU LIE!

            Their work is like this. "Salary" work out.
        2. paul3390
          paul3390 13 November 2022 08: 26
          +70
          trying to corrupt our society

          Don't you think that society is just corrupting our native leadership? With its endless negotiations and concessions on a bunch of issues, constant drape at the fronts, decisions that no one understands in all areas, lies about the situation in the war, frank failures in armaments and supplies, absolute unwillingness to somehow explain to people their wild antics, complete impunity for the perpetrators ongoing mess, and so on and so forth??

          As for the slogan about victory - don't you think that only we follow it? But for example, the alligators, to whom Russia belongs to nonecha, somehow do not burn with the desire to do everything for victory. Have you heard about one of them, for example, who supplied, say, a brigade at his own expense? Not? Here I am no. Not to mention their actions in the economy ..

          So what happens - to draw out the war, which the tops are frankly pissing off, should such beggars like us? And 90% of the impoverished population of the blessed Russian Federation? And those who, through the efforts of the guarantor, belong to all the wealth of the country - will they stand on the sidelines? Uh, no, that won't do.
        3. AUL
          AUL 13 November 2022 08: 38
          +40
          Quote: Alekseev
          Calls from the couch to change Putin during the war.
          Isn't this "Frugality" coming from Washington under the guise of an offended patriot.

          Again, the old nudyanka starts up "if you don't, I ask you to treat the unpopular decision with understanding." Have already heard!
        4. Boris Sergeev
          Boris Sergeev 13 November 2022 09: 50
          +45
          By whose decision did they not start mobilization in Russia in the summer, when the army in Ukraine was being recruited at full speed? Did the military not warn what this would lead to? Yes, it was only at the beginning of September that elections were scheduled, they decided to hold them so that there were no additional irritants against the EP and they were held. Then they announced mobilization, although by that time the Armed Forces of Ukraine had already taken the Kharkiv region. And you urge us to hold on to such leadership?
        5. Dingo
          Dingo 13 November 2022 15: 18
          +23
          to collect money, linen, razors for the wounded is necessary.

          ... and also find out where 1.5 million sets of uniforms have gone from the warehouses of the Ministry of Defense ... and about the fate of the promoted "Warrior" ... and about thermal imagers (Irina Allegrova bought a whole batch of them with her own, earned, not stolen ... Silently.) about which Chemezov "sang so sweetly", as well as about UAVs ...
          What else did you forget to mention?
      3. dorz
        dorz 13 November 2022 08: 25
        +31
        The retreat from Stalingrad in 1942 was an absolutely correct decision from a military point of view. But precisely the defense of Stalingrad became a turning point in the war, and the forerunner of the defeat of the Nazis.

        The justification for surrendering the territory is treason to the motherland.
        1. Denis812
          Denis812 13 November 2022 10: 04
          -17
          There is no need to compare Stalingrad and Kherson. The surrender of Stalingrad would mean the loss of the Caucasus and oil. And stopping all tanks, cars and other things.
          They fought for Stalingrad because surrendering it was equal to losing the whole war.
          And the surrender of Kherson is a very, very bad defeat, but it does not bear such consequences as the surrender of Stalingrad would bring.
          1. levfuks
            levfuks 14 November 2022 01: 47
            +4
            Quote: Denis812
            And the surrender of Kherson is a very, very bad defeat, but it does not carry such consequences,

            There are already consequences. You don't know about them yet. Maybe this is just the beginning, or maybe the end.
            And there will still be... hi
          2. Photon
            Photon 14 November 2022 02: 15
            +2
            The surrender of Kherson is already having consequences. This is the release of the troops of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which had to be kept to protect Nikolaev and Odessa. Which are already being transferred to the Zaporozhye region. This is a huge price to pay when returning to the right bank, crossing the Dnieper. Or, if no return is planned, the price will be even higher. Well, the little things, the threat to the Crimea, and the threat to Transnistria. I don’t even want to talk about where Russia is slipping on the world stage
          3. Photon
            Photon 14 November 2022 02: 29
            +4
            And, by the way, fairy tales about the impossibility of protecting the right bank are for elementary school students. The APU superiority in manpower in the Kherson region was only one and a half times. And the mobilization carried out was supposed to change this ratio and has already changed it. And even the current ratio of one and a half times in defense is not at all fatal. Rather fatal for the attackers. Especially considering our advantage in aviation and artillery. Undermining the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station is generally a weak threat to the right bank. Yes, of course, we would have to create reserves of supplies for a week until the water subsides. Yes, and the water from the reservoir has already been dumped.
            And those indulgences from the West, after the surrender of Kherson, this is of course a coincidence. And what Biden said about the negotiations after the surrender of Kherson is also just a coincidence. And rumors about unlocking $6 billion for Abramovich, well, also, of course, a coincidence
          4. nedgen
            nedgen 14 November 2022 11: 09
            +2
            Quote: Denis812
            There is no need to compare Stalingrad and Kherson. The surrender of Stalingrad would mean the loss of the Caucasus and oil. And stopping all tanks, cars and other things.
            They fought for Stalingrad because surrendering it was equal to losing the whole war.
            And the surrender of Kherson is a very, very bad defeat, but it does not bear such consequences as the surrender of Stalingrad would bring.

            As for Stalingrad, this is not entirely true. German troops on a very wide front then reached the banks of the Volga. And they tried to stop the ships moving along the Volga by shelling. And in general they stopped, but the Headquarters made oil reserves. And they also laid a railway parallel to the Volga but outside the fire of German artillery. The loss of Stalingrad i.e. that part of him that was on the right bank did not particularly rush, BUT they kept him also because it was IMPOSSIBLE to retreat further. And he also tied exactly at that point as many as 2 German armies, one of which was tank. And on the flanks were the Romanians and Italians. Hand over the right bank and all these two armies would go to attack somewhere else.
            Kherson did the same. Tied 50000 dill. Now they will go to attack Melitopol. And before that, they will try to blow up the Kakhovka dam and drown Russian soldiers like kittens. And after the descent of the waters, they will be able to cross the Dnieper without hindrance and go to the land corridor to the Crimea. By the way, they already have direct access to the dam of the Kakhovka hydroelectric power station, which was not there before the retreat from Kherson and adjacent territories. Now it is enough to send a couple of three divers with charges and you can say goodbye to the locks of the Kakhovka HPP. And this also means the departure of the Russian army from the left bank of the Dnieper, as they said, 15 km (on average) to the east.
            And all this is not due to difficulties with supply, but according to the CONTRACT. Although there were difficulties, of course, there were also opportunities to increase supplies. (they were not used). And also the land corridor to the Crimea ALREADY fell under a possible blow of chimeras precisely because of the retreat. And I can’t understand at all why the hell to break your forehead in fortified areas if they can be STUPIDLY BYPASSED and you can simply surround the most fortified areas. Not all of Ukraine fortified the region after all !!!
        2. Plover
          Plover 13 November 2022 10: 29
          +20
          And criticism of the actions of the army is a criminal article. wassat This is how we live in the country of crooked mirrors.
          1. Dingo
            Dingo 13 November 2022 15: 27
            +4
            And criticism of the actions of the army is a criminal article.

            Not criticism. Discredit. But who is another question.
            1. Plover
              Plover 13 November 2022 16: 14
              +9
              Well, practice shows that criticism is enough to get under the article, because. there is no concept of "discredit" in the law (as far as I know), and it will not be difficult to find an "expert" who will confirm that your criticism is discredit.
              1. Dingo
                Dingo 13 November 2022 17: 02
                +7
                Has already. I read on the resource "Tsargrad" the proposal of the deputies "to deprive of citizenship for discrediting the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation."
                And the fact that "finding an expert ... will not be difficult" - in this I absolutely agree with you.
                1. Plover
                  Plover 13 November 2022 17: 18
                  +3
                  There, in my opinion, they propose to deprive those who received it. And I doubt that they directly legally gave the definition of discredit, as well as the use of this term in relation to the Russian Armed Forces. It's so convenient when everything is not clear and not clear - you can apply the rule of law at your discretion.
                  1. Dingo
                    Dingo 13 November 2022 18: 38
                    +3
                    Correctly, the people say - "The law is that the drawbar - where you turned, it went there ...".
                    1. Plover
                      Plover 13 November 2022 19: 31
                      +2
                      Unfortunately, we adopted this principle (new khan - new law) from the Tatars, and further developed it ourselves. In pre-Mongolian Rus' it was not so.
                      1. Essex62
                        Essex62 14 November 2022 09: 53
                        -1
                        There were no Mongols in Rus'. The grandest fake of the West, planted in our "history". Nomadic pastoralists who do not know crafts, writing and the state itself have nothing to do for 7000 thousand miles. Horde, these are neighbors and Russians, the same princes - bandits, racketeers.
                      2. Plover
                        Plover 14 November 2022 11: 44
                        0
                        The Mongol-Tatars are a conglomerate of Mongol and Turkic tribes, with the Turks playing the leading role. These nomads created an advanced strategy and tactics of military operations, and the "rear" was provided at the expense of the conquered lands - China and Central Asia, where production at that time was advanced. From all the lands where they passed, a significant number of artisans were taken. So it was in Rus', and archeology eloquently testifies to this - before the Mongol-Tatars, Rus' had a rich tradition, a significant volume and quality of handicraft production. And then ... complete decline. About the Russian artisans who "took" there are records in the Chinese chronicles of the Yuan dynasty (those same Mongols), i.e. even got there.
                      3. Essex62
                        Essex62 14 November 2022 17: 03
                        -1
                        Is the presence of Slavic artisans in China explained by the Tatro-Mongol invasion? Well, that's nonsense. Nothing, the dark illiterate Mongols, who did not know crafts and letters, could not create. Nonsense, in someone's selfish interests. But there will be much more evidence that the Russians burned the cities, killing, raping, enslaving the Russian bandyugans-princes. And they have not heard of any decline in handicraft production in Rus'. It is not necessary to dig the earth, but to focus on folklore and the testimonies of ordinary people, from generation to generation, transmitting tragic events in the life of the area. Only "historians" don't need this, to destroy what is generally accepted and on what personal well-being is built.
                      4. Plover
                        Plover 14 November 2022 17: 50
                        0
                        Is the presence of Slavic artisans in China explained by the Tatro-Mongol invasion? Well, that's nonsense.
                        Not Slavs, but masters from the West. Not only the Slavs were engaged in crafts.
                        Nothing, the dark illiterate Mongols, who did not know crafts and letters, could not create.
                        Could. Advanced administrative (tolerance and protection of local religions, reliance on local personnel in administration) and military (tactics, strategy, use of Chinese siege equipment) practices. But the steppe economy is the steppe economy. They knew what they were good at and what they weren't. They developed their strength, and covered their weakness with the strengths of others.
                        But there will be much more evidence that the Russians burned the cities, killing, raping, enslaving the Russian bandyugans-princes.
                        Rus' of that time is generally different. Novgorod is one. The Galicia-Volyn principality is different. Vladimir-Suzdal - the third. What are you talking about?
                        And they have not heard of any decline in handicraft production in Rus'.
                        There is a very clear division in the cultural layers. The pre-Mongol period was characterized by a large number of ceramic and metal products. Then, for some time, emptiness and after that a gradual appearance, but not in the same volume and quality. The only exception is Novgorod. But even there, a change is noticeable - after all this "katavasia" the composition of objects is changing - more European things appear, i.e. goods stopped coming from Rus' and they switched to Europe.
                        It is not necessary to dig the earth, but to focus on folklore and the testimonies of ordinary people, from generation to generation, transmitting tragic events in the life of the area.

                        Yes, please: an uninvited guest is worse than a Tatar; dig a Russian - you will see a Tatar; in their house, they have a collapse, as if Mamai himself fought there; where the Tatar had time to visit, the Jew only loses time; this is just what came to mind right away.
                      5. Essex62
                        Essex62 14 November 2022 22: 33
                        0
                        The word Tatar, at that historical moment, did not mean nationality at all.
                        Layers, layers, but from something the bandits drank, ate on something, cut the grain grower and other bandits with something, putting on chain mail and other armor for protection. No, crafts have not died out in Rus'. You never know what you dug up there and how you interpreted it. Your inner cabal of "historians" has almost nothing to do with reality.
                        The nomadic Mongols, due to the lack of unification, could not have any tactics, much less a strategy. Not cities, not villages. Each family lived apart, not knowing any authority, except for the power of the head of the clan, and dangled back and forth across the steppe . To make such people believe in some idea and rally them into a combat-ready army, to conquer Rus' for a run of 7000 miles, well, it’s impossible. There are things in nature that are not logical, but this is beyond. Anyone it was, but not the Mongols.
                      6. Plover
                        Plover 15 November 2022 11: 47
                        0
                        The word Tatar, at that historical moment, did not mean nationality at all
                        And who spoke about nationality? I wrote that this is a conglomeration of Turkic-Mongolian tribes. And if China collided mainly with the Mongolian part, then we, as races with the Turkic. And all the Turks with whom Rus' dealt (Volga Bulgars, Kipchaks (Polovtsy)), were called Tatars.
                        No, crafts have not died out in Rus'. You never know what you dug up there and how you interpreted it.
                        Of course, "under the net" nothing has disappeared. But, many ashes were found and excavated that appeared at that time (i.e. there was a settlement - which is called a city, but in fact there were few large settlements in Rus' - and then it disappeared). And the quantity and quality of objects of material culture has fallen significantly where the settlements have been preserved or restored. And so, yes - they have not forgotten how to sculpt pots.
                        Your inner cabal of "historians" has almost nothing to do with reality.
                        The story of the Mongol-Tatars is not only (and not even so much) based on the Russian source. The Mongol-Tatars traveled from China to Europe, and if this is true, then the "traces" in the chronicles should have been left along the entire route. And this is true: in Chinese sources, in Arabic, Persian, Armenian, European, there is a lot of information about them. Our compatriot R. Khrapachevsky did a titanic work in his work "The Golden Horde in the Sources". If there were no aggressive campaigns, there would be no reflection of these campaigns in the chronicles of peoples living thousands of kilometers from each other. Circulation, unfortunately, is not large - we prefer to read fairy tales and folklore as historical sources, rather than scientific literature.
                        Due to the lack of unification, the nomads of the Mongols could not have any tactics, much less a strategy.

                        See above - there are many records of how the Mongol-Tatars took fortresses and cities that were considered impregnable, left in different parts of Eurasia. And if you think that the Chinese chronicler agreed with the Armenian... Well, that's it.
                        There are things in nature that are not logical, but this is beyond. Anyone it was, but not the Mongols.

                        See above. Your opinion contradicts historical sources, which recorded the facts of the Tatar-Mongols' campaigns independently of each other and in the chronology of movement from east to west.
                      7. Essex62
                        Essex62 16 November 2022 09: 19
                        0
                        I do not deny the fact of the conquest and genocide of peoples, I can only admit that it was precisely the steppes inhabiting the territory now called Mongolia. In each case, it was his Chagoniz or Batu or Alexander Yaroslavich. It was customary in those days to live by robbery.
                        PS: I will definitely read Khrapachevsky's study. hi
                      8. Plover
                        Plover 16 November 2022 10: 08
                        0
                        Not only the current Mongolia. Temujin, for example, was born and was buried on the banks of the Onon - now it is the Trans-Baikal Territory. Look what faith they had. They worshiped Tengri, it was a Turkic god, not traditional Mongols shamanism. Yes, you are partially right - different tribes were in different directions. But they were united by one faith, culture and, most importantly, by the will of the khan. That is why they have been so successful.
          2. AAK
            AAK 13 November 2022 19: 04
            +7
            And for some reason in recent months I haven’t found a single article on VO criticizing our army itself ... now we’re talking about the leadership and its foul role ... what kind of army is there, but no ... the guys are pouring blood in tanks, but "lovers of the negotiation process" multiply all their work by zero ... what article is there for us ?! No, under the article "Treason to the Motherland" quite certain persons should go ...
            1. Dingo
              Dingo 14 November 2022 10: 42
              -1
              the guys pour blood in tanks, and "lovers of the negotiation process" multiply all their work by zero ...

              I agree with you. With one clarification.
              This is done not by "amateurs", but by professionals in their field of plundering the country.
              From those old ones, from Yeltsin's so-called. "family", almost no one left.
              New ones have arrived. The same Rotenberg brothers from the sports club "RVS" (Guys of the Vyborg Side), from the fuel mafia of St. Petersburg ...
              But you never know who - in this tangle of all to list ...
        3. trenkkvaz
          trenkkvaz 13 November 2022 13: 01
          -6
          And there was also the defense of Kyiv, when the troops did not withdraw in time, and lost 600 thousand in the boiler.
          To be honest, couch strategists got tired of comparing Kherson and Stalingrad.
          Open the map and you will see that our troops were on the flanks of Stalingrad, and then they were able to calmly hit the enemy on land.
          Show me in Kherson where there are our troops on the land flanks. They are not there, and cannot be, because there are seas and rivers.
          1. dorz
            dorz 13 November 2022 15: 14
            +4
            Quote: trenkkvaz
            And there was also the defense of Kyiv, when the troops did not withdraw in time, and lost 600 thousand in the boiler.
            To be honest, couch strategists got tired of comparing Kherson and Stalingrad.
            Open the map and you will see that our troops were on the flanks of Stalingrad, and then they were able to calmly hit the enemy on land.
            Show me in Kherson where there are our troops on the land flanks. They are not there, and cannot be, because there are seas and rivers.

            Of course, the comparison is not correct. At that time, the German army was No. 1 in power, the Ukrainian No. 22 now.
      4. Dingo
        Dingo 13 November 2022 10: 17
        +37
        I agree with you. Never...
        In the war between Courchevel and Kherson, Courchevel won.
      5. Andrei Nikolaevich
        Andrei Nikolaevich 13 November 2022 13: 14
        +19
        Of course they were embarrassed. But not the army, but the leadership of the army. One thing is parades and tank biathlons, and another thing is war. How many times have I written on this site that there is no longer a "fraternal people" in Ukraine, that this is already a foreign country. I was constantly downvoted. The NWO began - at half strength they fought and hoped for a meeting of troops, with flowers. Here we played. One hope is for the army. Politicians are disgraced.
        1. Dingo
          Dingo 13 November 2022 15: 49
          +10
          [quote] [that there is no longer a "fraternal people" in Ukraine / quote]
          You are almost 1:1 with my words, which I said to my nephew, an OMON colonel, when he went there with his guys in
          March - "Throw all the nonsense out of your head about this "fraternal people"! You yourself will return and bring the guys back alive. There is none there, except perhaps Donetsk ones. In our own 30 years, the Pepsi generation has grown - what can we say about them .. .".
          And he has both "Chechen" over his shoulder ...
          1. Andrei Nikolaevich
            Andrei Nikolaevich 13 November 2022 16: 00
            +3
            I said the same thing to my colleagues when I came back from vacation. They were surprised. Now they say I was right, six years ago.
            1. Dingo
              Dingo 13 November 2022 16: 43
              +7
              I'll say more. My classmate served urgent service near Ivano-Frankivsk (DMB 77-79). We texted sometimes. The conversation somehow turned to layoffs. He writes to me (I don’t remember exactly, but close to the text) - “Vit, they don’t let us go on dismissal either. It’s all because of these“ frenchish ”(mate). While sober, it’s tolerable. .. (this is about the locals). The political officer says that they must return us home alive."
              At the time I didn't understand what he was talking about. Then I forgot.
              And when it all started, this word came across on one resource. I remembered - I started looking (google is better, there is little information in Yandex).
              This topic was not advertised in the USSR, it was taboo.
              I will not explain here - google what this word "french" means
              Already in the third (or fourth?) generation. What consequences of degeneration at the gene level did doctors warn about.
              1. Andrei Nikolaevich
                Andrei Nikolaevich 13 November 2022 17: 26
                +3
                Interesting. I'll take a look, for sure. And how many times have I myself encountered ranuli yutim. One woman, a former Irkutsk woman who lived for a long time in Ukraine, told me: "when talking with them, remember the main thing - they say one thing. They do it another thing. They think it's the third thing. ..) Well, you understand. And I heard about it from another old grandfather, in the 90s. He fought in the Second World War with a military mebik. This bullshit was especially developed in the western regions of Ukraine. It appeared during the occupation, by the Germans and reached such heights that after the liberation by the Red Army, this disease was removed until the end of the 50s. In general, the local ladies were very,, friends, with the Germans.) This is how I, briefly and very tactfully stated.))
                1. Dingo
                  Dingo 13 November 2022 18: 34
                  +4
                  That's what I said, briefly and very tactfully. ))

                  I understood you. It is not the disease itself that is terrible, but the consequences ...
                  And Seryoga stayed there after the demobilization - they lured him with a ruble, "cut coal" in the mine, no matter how he says ... Right now, he is also retired, lives in Lugansk. We talked with him about a month ago, via video link (Whatsapp).
                  There are a lot of problems right now. A relative of the wife was mobilized, handed over documents to the headquarters in Izyum ...
                  There are no documents, no headquarters, no Izyum ... I moved to them from the village, to Lugansk. What to do - do not know ...
                  Yes, there are now many of them, he is not alone. Khokhols without docks will come across - against the wall without talking ... Yes, and ours will arrange a purge ...
                  You have it.
                  1. Andrei Nikolaevich
                    Andrei Nikolaevich 13 November 2022 19: 30
                    0
                    Yes, things ... Well, at least ours will figure it out and everything will be fine.
      6. Dimcor
        Dimcor 13 November 2022 14: 17
        -4
        How many days is never? This is something from the category of "the whole world", when everything turns out to be a small part. As they said in Star Wars - only the Sith elevate everything to the absolute, the Sith and the young immature representatives of the human race. And I doubt you have a lightsaber.
        1. Dingo
          Dingo 13 November 2022 15: 58
          +3
          [quoteAs they said in Star Wars][/quote]
          ... I played too much, schoolboy ... It happens. I jumped into another reality, since the ultimate truth is the Sith from Star Wars ...
          By the way, what is a Sith? Guys, explain to me, the old one, huh?
      7. Igor_Aretano
        Igor_Aretano 13 November 2022 18: 33
        0
        Yeah, CIPSO is hard at work. It is impossible to make Maidan in Russia based on love for Bandera - let's make it on a "patriotic" and all-out base.
      8. james
        james 13 November 2022 19: 20
        +1
        Roman Arkadyevich, he has his own interests, and if you trace the events from the beginning of the NWO, then you get the feeling that he determines what to do.
        1. levfuks
          levfuks 14 November 2022 01: 56
          +1
          Quote: james
          the feeling that he determines what to do.

          Think in the right direction.
          If you dig into how his "creative" path intersected with the path of the "travel" itself, then much will become clear.
      9. Mikhail Drabkin
        Mikhail Drabkin 14 November 2022 02: 13
        -1
        Kherson was shamefully surrendered for the sake of the selfish interests of Abramoysha, for the sake of his 6 billion

        —- Do you have evidence, or are you just on the principle of “there is an elderberry in the garden, and an uncle in Kyiv ..”, or “... look at the root - the well-known national minority ..”, or did Patrushev and Sullivan agree ... or “lack proof is not proof of absence?

        —- The stars have reduced prudence: Just because what happens AFTER does not mean that what happened BEFORE is the CAUSE.
      10. Chervony Biker
        Chervony Biker 15 November 2022 14: 04
        0
        You're right. And the trouble is not even in the fact that they passed it or something didn’t turn out to be from what it should be. Or they are not able to do what they are obliged to .... There are NO guilty ones!
    3. Anachoret
      Anachoret 13 November 2022 13: 45
      +11
      Considering that the “small motherland” of the vast majority of Bandera stubborns is the western regions of Ukraine)) the only acceptable option for returning to the right bank is precisely the entry from Belarus) and the entry should not be neat, like all these months), namely in the spirit of scorched earth so that any fortified area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe enemy is blown to dust. And with such tactics, you can safely advance through Lutsk, exactly, Vinnitsa, Ternopil and Khmelnitsky) you will immediately see what kind of howl will rise (“and we are for sho”))
      Bandera women are terribly black-mouthed and even with pitchforks met military commissars with subpoenas for their husbands)) and if their huts are broken due to hostilities), they will start stabbing and cursing their own warriors with the same pitchforks)
      For them, war is a sacred thing, as long as it is being conducted on Russian territory and it is mostly only the Russian population that dies among civilians))
      And when the war is right under their noses and the Bandera “peacekeeper” begins to die), barking at the Bandera authorities will immediately begin - fuck you brewed this mess)
      1. Dingo
        Dingo 13 November 2022 16: 01
        +5
        For them, war is a sacred thing, as long as it is being conducted on Russian territory and it is mostly only the Russian population that dies among civilians))

        You can’t even imagine how right you are!
      2. El Barto
        El Barto 13 November 2022 16: 44
        -2
        Eprst. It's like living in fantasy. The small homeland of uproots who hate Russians is not Lviv (they don’t care there), the most nits haters with Nazi ideology come from Kharkov, Poltava, Dnepropetrovsk, Kyiv.
        For good, you don’t need to go anywhere, but simply demolish these cities so that only cockroaches and rats remain there
    4. withoutreverse
      withoutreverse 13 November 2022 14: 13
      +12
      Fuck everything, and then make predictions ??
    5. smart ass
      smart ass 13 November 2022 15: 23
      +13
      Explain to me please! Everyone repeats like a mantra there is no way to organize supplies! What does it mean? Were the engineering troops also taken away from us? Or was it possible to supply many millions of contingents in 41-45 years and is now lost?
      1. levfuks
        levfuks 14 November 2022 02: 04
        +1
        Quote: Clever man
        Everyone repeats like a mantra there is no way to organize supplies!

        Not all. Try to look for the opinions of specialists who do not depend on the authorities.
        Maybe the goals and the "cunning plan" simply do not mean.
    6. Yustas201
      Yustas201 13 November 2022 16: 58
      +3
      Only now our "ally" Lukashenka will never agree to this, and wait, after fleeing from Kherson, he will start another flirtation with the impudent Saxons ...
      1. smart ass
        smart ass 13 November 2022 20: 22
        +2
        It is better to have no allies than allies of the Italians. That's what the Germans said. With regard to the father, it’s about the same
        1. ratcatcher
          ratcatcher 14 November 2022 04: 02
          +1
          The father is also now thinking about this topic. Like Vucic and many more.
          1. smart ass
            smart ass 15 November 2022 08: 29
            0
            There is nothing for dad to think he has no choice, for Europe he is a dictator, he sits thanks to Russia
        2. The comment was deleted.
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 13 November 2022 05: 53
    +37
    Will Zaporozhye become a new target for the Russian offensive?
    It will be when they decide what to do with Zaporizhstal, which belongs to the Abramovich group and which has obligations to partners. And friendly partners, not friendly, he somehow doesn’t care.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 13 November 2022 06: 01
      +42
      Kharkov "lend-lease" should not be repeated. Unfortunately, the first signs are already there - Ukrainian sources testify to the discovery near Kherson of several Russian tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and Grad MLRS
      .and Skabeeva, with reference to the Ministry of Defense, broadcast that they say they didn’t leave anything, not a cartridge ... I got sick of lies, I don’t believe anything or anyone anymore.
      1. Belisarius
        Belisarius 13 November 2022 06: 07
        +21
        Quote: Aerodrome
        .and Skabeeva, with reference to the Ministry of Defense, broadcast that they say they didn’t leave anything, not a cartridge ... I got sick of lies, I don’t believe anything or anyone anymore.

        In the telegram 205, the brigades write that the number of "gifts" will be comparable to Izyum. Maybe they exaggerate (and you can’t believe that this channel itself is 100% real), but the loss of equipment will be large. There are already videos from Bandera, although so far there are not very many of them
        Well, yes, there are no losses.
      2. lis-ik
        lis-ik 13 November 2022 13: 40
        +8
        Quote: Aerodrome
        and Skabeev with reference to the Moscow Region

        Since the fifteenth year I haven’t watched TV, mainly because of people like Skabeev’s habalka and other boors, such as Solovyov and company. I advise you to save your nerves and household appliances.
        1. Dingo
          Dingo 13 November 2022 16: 11
          +1
          [quote I haven’t watched TV since the fifteenth year] [/ quote]
          I remember the words of Prof. Preobrazhensky ("Dog Heart" Bulgakov):
          "... Do not read Soviet newspapers. Especially - at night ..."
          But there was no TV back then...
        2. smart ass
          smart ass 13 November 2022 18: 47
          +2
          I agree with you, the chicken coop is still the same) as I remember, I went on vacation and turned on the TV in the afternoon and all day there was a talking shop about Americans and Ukraine! Have parents asked that so every day?
    2. Piramidon
      Piramidon 13 November 2022 18: 09
      0
      Quote: parusnik
      It will become when they decide what to do with Zaporizhstal, which belongs to the Abramovich group

      The main shareholders of Zaporizhstal are System Capital Management Rinat Akhmetova and "Smart Holding" Vadim Novinsky. Abramovich is there from no side.
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 13 November 2022 18: 39
        +3
        Zaporizhstal - 48% belongs to a pool of Russian investors. The package was financed by Vnesheconombank (Russia). Southern GOK - 50% owned by Evraz (Roman Abramovich). "Industrial Union of Donbass" - metallurgical plant and coke plant in Alchevsk, Dneprovsky metallurgical plant named after. Dzerzhinsky - 50% + 2 shares of ISD were bought by a group of investors led by Alexander Katunin.
    3. james
      james 13 November 2022 21: 13
      +1
      Abramovich - https://youtu.be/7qEvnlF6nmY ?
  3. Nikolay Malyugin
    Nikolay Malyugin 13 November 2022 06: 01
    +6
    The fate of Kherson is in the hands of politicians and the military. Kherson, like Zaporozhye, remained "abroad". Cities are easier to surrender than to take. But even here everything is in the hands of politicians. If all the missiles fired deep into the territory of Ukraine were fired at the offensive armada, then this city would not have to be surrendered. If, yes, if only. We can fantasize any future. But first of all, we need to solve the current pressing ones. And this is the strengthening of Donbass and Crimea.
    1. MBRSS
      MBRSS 13 November 2022 06: 55
      +10
      Missiles and shells can no longer be returned, but it was possible to pull up reserves from western and central Russia. And don't give up the city. The grouping could be supplied from the left bank, incl. and helicopters.
      1. Eroma
        Eroma 13 November 2022 10: 29
        +18
        The capture of Kherson is good luck! If you neglect luck, it will eventually turn away belay it was necessary to build a defense along the bed of the Ingulets! But, apart from the mat, there are no other comments am
        Opponents of the retreat claim that we will be on the left bank in full view due to a significant elevation difference, and that's where our troops will be destroyed even without Drones, by direct fire! (I don’t know how we are going to deal with this? Probably a new regrouping in order to save the lives of soldiers) crying
        There will be no forcing of the Dnieper, because the losses will be very serious. The return of Kherson is possible only with the surrender of the junta, as a condition for ending the war! Those. his fate will be decided elsewhere (on a campaign against Kyiv, for example), I see no other options!
      2. common man
        common man 13 November 2022 12: 59
        +15
        Quote: MBRBS
        The grouping could be supplied from the left bank, incl. and helicopters.

        I don’t understand, what were the problems to build several pontoon bridges in different places? At the beginning of the SVO, we were so beautifully convinced on TV that the Russian army did not need stationary bridges in FIG, there were no water barriers for it.
        It was possible to organize the supply with the help of many ferries based on pontoon links and boats. Not one Hymers will hit a moving target. Personally, the thesis about the impossibility of supplying troops did not convince me from the word at all. If under such conditions they could not organize the supply of troops, then how to fight at all?
        1. smart ass
          smart ass 13 November 2022 18: 49
          +7
          How did they fight at 41-45, how did they win? Were they supplying multi-million dollar contingents almost 100 years ago? Are we degraded?
      3. lis-ik
        lis-ik 13 November 2022 13: 42
        +5
        Quote: MBRBS
        Missiles and shells will not return,

        So it was not necessary to launch them in the sheds, for the sake of reports and victorious reports in Konashenkov's reports about the destroyed strongholds.
    2. aglet
      aglet 13 November 2022 07: 25
      +14
      "And this is the fortification of Donbass"
      to stop the shelling of Donetsk, you need to take Avdiivka and Marinka. but this is the easy way. our generals are known to prefer difficult decisions. it means they will surrender Donetsk
    3. levfuks
      levfuks 14 November 2022 02: 16
      0
      Quote: Nikolay Malyugin
      If all the missiles fired deep into the territory of Ukraine were fired at the offensive armada, then this city would not have to be surrendered.

      For a couple of weeks now, they have been dispersing the topic of "surovyakin's genius" with "his" strikes on infrastructure. Approved by the "almighty". And "goodbye" Kherson.
      I think a lot of interesting things are yet to come. hi
  4. Belisarius
    Belisarius 13 November 2022 06: 02
    +46
    The answer to the question posed by the author is never.
    Nobody is going anywhere anymore. In reality, with the help of gestures of goodwill, the leadership of the Russian Federation is trying to at least freeze the conflict with the subsequent disengagement of opponents, following the example of North and South Korea without a peace treaty.
    The only question is the line of division, and if we manage to save what we control now it will be happiness. It is possible that the "partners" will require a couple more gifts. The next candidates for this are the north of the LPR (for gas trade with Europe), the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant, and the Kinsbur Spit (for trade through Nikolaev).
    1. levfuks
      levfuks 14 November 2022 02: 20
      +1
      Quote: Belisarius
      Zaporizhzhya NPP

      I heard that the nuclear power plant has already "returned" to the enemy's power system. Quietly so, imperceptibly. (But it is not exactly). hi
  5. St54
    St54 13 November 2022 06: 06
    +38
    Now there will be many such articles, like, otherwise it was impossible ... As for returning back to the right bank ...
    Does anyone else believe in this? Now, apparently, they are preparing to "merge" Zaporozhye.
    God forbid I was wrong.
    1. Belisarius
      Belisarius 13 November 2022 06: 14
      +3
      Quote: St54
      Now, apparently, they are preparing to "merge" Zaporozhye.
      God forbid I was wrong.

      No, they do not plan to completely merge Zaporozhye. This is a new task of the NWO - the preservation of the land corridor to the Crimea. But the Bandera people will certainly try to attack there, but this is already a purely military issue, and not a question of treaties. Withstand our strike on Tokmak and Pologi, the chances of freezing the conflict increase ..
      1. aglet
        aglet 13 November 2022 07: 29
        +7
        "But Bandera will certainly try to attack there"
        will be, but later. they will wait until we restore Mariupol, and then they will come
  6. Dimy4
    Dimy4 13 November 2022 06: 07
    +30
    When Kherson becomes Russian again

    Never, with drivers like that. The enemy's side can have an appetite, you see what else they will demand, and our "great" chess grandmasters, as always, bend over.
  7. Boris Sergeev
    Boris Sergeev 13 November 2022 06: 10
    +57
    Voenkor Kitten:
    -The first batch of Russian fertilizers blocked in European ports will go to Malawi next week;
    - The UN calls for speeding up the lifting of all restrictions on the export of food and fertilizers from Russia;
    - The United States is not opposed to India buying Russian oil at a cost above the price ceiling;
    — The London Metal Exchange (LME) has decided not to impose a ban on the supply of metals from Russia.

    Any coincidence with the surrender of Kherson is coincidental.
    1. aglet
      aglet 13 November 2022 07: 30
      +17
      "Any coincidence with the surrender of Kherson is coincidental."
      nothing personal...
    2. Alien From
      Alien From 13 November 2022 07: 57
      +17
      ""Any coincidence with the surrender of Kherson is accidental."" - you are right! The more they press on the oligarchs, the more we will give up our territories. Such is the SVO am
    3. Alexander_Belov
      Alexander_Belov 13 November 2022 12: 54
      +1
      In principle, I don’t read military men, but according to this logic, in order to reach the money on February 23.02.2022, XNUMX, I won’t have to move beyond the Urals. We will give them Rostov, they will return McDonald's to us, we will give them Ryazan, they will allow us to travel to Europe to rest, we will give them Vladimir, they will bring us Toyotas.
      We went through this in the 80s and 90s. We go to the West for oil, gas, metal, wood for a penny, and we get jeans, chewing gum, Marlboro, Coca-Cola for quite good money.
      It’s a shame to even read such a military correspondent.
  8. Boris Sergeev
    Boris Sergeev 13 November 2022 06: 15
    +39
    Very strange difficulties with the supply of Russian troops on the right bank of the bridges, through which the entire group was able to withdraw within 2 days. Oleg Tsarev said that the Antonovsky bridge was intact and functioned until it was blown up during the withdrawal. And practically no persecution by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Well, never "negotiable"!
    1. Alexander_Snegirev
      Alexander_Snegirev 13 November 2022 09: 36
      +2
      Quote: Boris Sergeev
      Oleg Tsarev said that the Antonovsky bridge was intact and functioned until it was blown up during the withdrawal.

      The bridge was like a sieve after the Hymarses. Kyiv partners, by the way, have big problems with Kherson's energy supply. Previously, he ate from the left bank, which is now inaccessible. The Nazis need to restore the high-voltage line to Nikolaev (and put it in blackouts), but even this takes at least a month according to their most optimistic Wishlist.
      1. HaByxoDaBHocep
        HaByxoDaBHocep 13 November 2022 19: 17
        +2
        And what prevented the MTU-90 from deploying to this bridge?
      2. Caretaker
        Caretaker 13 November 2022 20: 40
        0
        Quote: Alexander_Snegirev
        The bridge was like a sieve after the Hymarses.

        Forwarded incl. on pontoons, like even the crossing was parallel to the bridge. It was possible to disperse the crossing points.
    2. Caretaker
      Caretaker 13 November 2022 10: 26
      +6
      Depends on the problem setting.
      "No retreat, supply" or "Retreat, no supply."
  9. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 13 November 2022 06: 16
    +46
    I’m generally indignant at what the author wrote ... he somehow missed how much damage Russia received in the world to its image in the world and the Anglo-Saxons’ handouts to our oligarchs that followed ... very similar to the Kremlin’s agreement with cheaters in Washington.
    GDP again wants to be thrown by scammers, I got exactly that impression.
    From the very beginning, I was repulsed by the CBO that the main condition for victory had not been done
    ... the top leadership of Ukraine was not beheaded and the centralized control of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was not violated ... the enemy recovered from the first blow and organized resistance in accordance with all the rules of military science ... A good time to suppress enemy resistance was mediocrely missed.
    Now I have serious doubts about the competence of the top leadership of Russia in military affairs, and with every mediocre decision in the NMD, these doubts are only getting stronger.
    Ordinary soldiers and officers of our army fight honestly and bravely, but the command of the highest rank, to put it mildly, resembles a ram leading a flock of lions.
    1. MBRSS
      MBRSS 13 November 2022 07: 09
      +39
      Quote: Lech from Android
      GDP again wants to be thrown by scammers, I got exactly that impression.

      GDP wants only one thing - to stay longer on the throne, surrounded by well-fed and contented oligarch friends. That's all his wishlist. So far everything is going according to plan.
    2. fiberboard
      fiberboard 13 November 2022 07: 50
      +35
      What image of Russia are you talking about. In the world, Russia has one image - a country where thieves and criminals are in the leadership. Nobody is going to talk to them. From Russia, the West pulls what they need. In addition, all sorts of freeloaders, according to an old habit, sit on the neck. And the good GDP arranged an attraction of unprecedented generosity at the expense of the people of Russia: free distribution of fertilizers and grain. And to whom? For example, Sudan, which rudely refused to place our Navy base on its territory. Or India, which buys oil from us at a low price and resells it with a large margin to the West.
    3. lis-ik
      lis-ik 13 November 2022 13: 45
      +9
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      I’m generally outraged at what the author wrote ... he somehow missed what damage Russia received in the world to its image in the world

      Wait, Staver will soon come to his senses and explain everything as it should.
  10. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 13 November 2022 06: 17
    +21
    Well, that's nice! All decorously, nobly, clearly explained! So Budyonovka can not be thrown away?

    And not to worry about the abandoned "ours"?

    So we will soon be on the verge of ... a big offensive again!?

    Thanks Evgeny! Mankind! Mind chamber!
    1. Alien From
      Alien From 13 November 2022 08: 02
      +7
      The power in the village has changed and now the women from the masters are bastard, they sit with lipstick, they paint their mouths, the garden is overgrown with weeds. (C) Something like this request
    2. El Barto
      El Barto 13 November 2022 18: 36
      +1
      Yes, and deeply FSUs on these your suffering. So I say. Any elderly morons do not know what mobilization is.
      Yes, I don't care about your war with hohls. Sit a debil in Luga. Will not go. Go to X.
      Yes, it is better to die in battle with the bailiffs. Although it will be useful for the people to shoot them
  11. MBRSS
    MBRSS 13 November 2022 06: 26
    +33
    November 9, 2022 will go down in Russian history for a long time.

    That's for sure. Like a day of shame.
    General Armageddon
    He surrendered the city of Kherson without a fight.
    am
    1. DominickS
      DominickS 13 November 2022 07: 07
      +1
      And what about Surovikin? He's just a lightning rod.
      1. jdiver
        jdiver 13 November 2022 14: 43
        +9
        And what about Surovikin? He's just a lightning rod.

        Well, here's how a lightning rod and moreover.
  12. MBRSS
    MBRSS 13 November 2022 06: 33
    +8
    Quote: Fedorov
    For example, to smash all the bridges across the Dnieper to smithereens? No, this would not affect the position of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the right bank of the river.

    But it would have affected the position of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the left bank, which is much more important.
  13. Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 13 November 2022 06: 38
    +12
    but one thing is important - the withdrawal of troops was a perfect military necessity.
    am
    Mobilized 318 thousand!!! Send 200 to be trained in personnel troops, and 200 personnel army would be landed in Kherson and to hell would be ground to dust by the Armed Forces of Ukraine there !!! I don't see any problem with this at all!
    1. Denis812
      Denis812 13 November 2022 10: 09
      +9
      It seems to me that you would see the problem if you were one of those who would be in this army of yours of two hundred thousand.
  14. Boris Sergeev
    Boris Sergeev 13 November 2022 06: 40
    +31
    Noteworthy is, to put it mildly, the complete unconvincing argument of Surovikin in favor of leaving Kherson, with which Shoigu agreed. Surovikin began with the shelling of Kherson by the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the death of the civilian population there, which, moreover, is difficult to supply through the surviving bridges. And as a solution, he proposed to give this population into the clutches of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Will the townspeople not die there during the filtration measures? And what message does the Russian army make to the rest of Ukraine in 2 months, giving up the second region along with those who voted for Russia? If there were Russian supporters in Odessa, Nikolaev and Dnepropetrovsk, now they will think twice before helping the Russian troops. You can forget about international prestige after this. Further, Surovikin cited the threat of flooding in the event of attacks on the Kakhovka reservoir system, but how can this threat be avoided by withdrawing troops from the high bank of the Dnieper to the low one?
    One gets the impression that this argument was written "on the knee" in order to justify a decision taken for completely different reasons. And the fact that the general and the Minister of Defense took part in voicing this production leads to unhappy thoughts.
    1. Boris Sergeev
      Boris Sergeev 13 November 2022 06: 55
      +39
      No less "inventive", or rather, cynical, was Peskov's press secretary, who said that he did not see anything humiliating in the surrender of Kherson, since according to the documents the city still remains Russian. Imagine Levitan announcing the surrender of Kherson on August 19, 1941, and assuring that there is nothing to worry about, since according to the 1936 Constitution, the city remains part of the USSR.
      Apparently, the Kremlin decided not to stand on ceremony with the "electorate".
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 13 November 2022 07: 14
        +27
        Apparently, the Kremlin decided not to stand on ceremony with the "electorate".
        Why stand on ceremony. 80% will still vote for...
        1. MBRSS
          MBRSS 14 November 2022 15: 32
          +3
          Quote: Gardamir
          80% will still vote for...

          I went to the Duma elections last year. Came on the last day before closing. I look - the registration log is almost empty. Those. people just don't go! Type, "elections do not affect anything." It is clear why the edross always have the majority.
    2. fiberboard
      fiberboard 13 November 2022 08: 07
      +21
      The modern means of overcoming water barriers available to the Armed Forces of Ukraine will allow them, if necessary, to seize bridgeheads on the left bank and launch an attack on the Crimea and Mariupol. The defense of Kherson would have fettered large parts of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, depriving them of maneuverability in residential areas. It was just necessary to get all the civilians out of there, carefully filtering it out. If Surovikin does not want to use army units, he could put Strelkov in charge of the defense. People would follow him, and he would be able to recruit several thousand volunteers, I think. It would remain only to support the defenders of the city with heavy artillery and aircraft from the left bank. But the very figure of Strelkov in the Kremlin causes great fear, as the commander of large formations. The authorities are afraid that he may become Franco or Pinochet with his determination. Therefore, the Kremlin puts "faded" generals. These agree on everything. There is nothing worse when the army is led by merchants. So this is not our last retreat.
      1. solar
        solar 13 November 2022 12: 45
        +2
        People would follow him, and he would be able to recruit several thousand volunteers, I think.

        Have you seen the video from the meetings of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Kherson?
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDRlOaUkzqo
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MAEIDlkjjE
        Or how Russian troops were greeted in Kherson with rallies with the same flags
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf2q5mgqIHc
        Where can Strelkov recruit thousands of people who want to fight for Russia?
        1. tsvetahaki
          tsvetahaki 13 November 2022 23: 25
          0
          Where can Strelkov recruit thousands of people who want to fight for Russia?

          Unfortunately, the footage is impressive...
      2. Vladimir100
        Vladimir100 13 November 2022 17: 51
        +7
        task to defend Kherson was not initially. it was sold for fertilizers and rolled metal supplied to the west.
    3. parusnik
      parusnik 13 November 2022 08: 35
      +14
      Noteworthy is, to put it mildly, the complete unconvincing argument of Surovikin in favor of leaving Kherson.
      The argument of the author of the article is also unconvincing.
    4. Caretaker
      Caretaker 13 November 2022 10: 14
      +4
      Will the Armed Forces of Ukraine place artillery, mortars, MLRS in the urban area of ​​​​Kherson and we will have to destroy our Russian city along with Russian citizens?
  15. Ivanov IV
    Ivanov IV 13 November 2022 06: 46
    +18
    The winner is looking for poses from the "Kama Sutra" for the loser.
    The vanquished seeks "justifications" for himself.
    What do you think, what kind of "monument" to Putin will Descendants put up?
    Doggystyle stand plz....
  16. Bingo
    Bingo 13 November 2022 06: 47
    -10
    In fact, at the beginning of the NMD, the Russian army, even in the West, was praised for not capturing, but blocking the nodes of resistance, well, this is how it should be done in the future. It is clear why they break down the fortifications of Donetsk - without its liquidation, Donetsk is a very conditional residential city, it is front-line under constant shelling. But to climb into Kharkov or Kherson - why? Sit there for yourself under the hood of the UAV, when artillery arrives at any target detected from the air.
  17. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 13 November 2022 06: 48
    0
    The first option had to be put into action on the first day of the NWO, as is required by the laws of war. But what is, is. So it's probably better late than never.
  18. samarin1969
    samarin1969 13 November 2022 06: 49
    +18
    You can talk as much as you like about the loss of face, deceived hopes and the meaninglessness of what is happening

    Yes, "face" and "hope" are just words. But how much people perish in repression! How many people in the new subjects will flatly refuse support because of such "protection". Aid to refugees is fragmented.
    The "allied" (?!) army fights only on the basis of its own interests: unexpected rapid retreats, refusal of large coverage. At the same time, along the Right Bank - a striking "shyness" in the means.
  19. Mixweb
    Mixweb 13 November 2022 07: 03
    +37
    Stop lying about "perfect military necessity" !!! Another betrayal of the political elites took place. And the article - one of many - was written in an attempt to justify betrayal. Work out 30 pieces of silver.
    1. jdiver
      jdiver 13 November 2022 14: 48
      +6
      And you look how much these 30 pieces of silver work out and you are amazed. Starikov recorded his video where he explained with a blue eye that the wise decision to leave the troops on the left bank was caused by the wisdom of the leadership, since the left bank is higher. Apparently he studied the card very carefully before the performance, only his bank account, apparently.
      1. levfuks
        levfuks 14 November 2022 02: 30
        0
        Quote from jdiver
        caused by the wisdom of leadership since the left bank is higher.

        It's a matter of orientation. hi
        1. jdiver
          jdiver 14 November 2022 02: 52
          +1
          Well, with the orientation of citizen Starikov, now everything has become clear.
  20. Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 13 November 2022 07: 07
    +12
    Quote: MBRBS
    November 9, 2022 will go down in Russian history for a long time.

    That's for sure. Like a day of shame.
    General Armageddon
    He surrendered the city of Kherson without a fight.
    am

    "Stand Dawn, stand" (c) from a joke tongue
    What is a "general"? )) Solovyov called him "the future Marshal of Victory" live on the air !!! tongue laughing lol
    1. jdiver
      jdiver 13 November 2022 14: 49
      +2
      called him "the future Marshal of Victory"!!

      the only question is whose victory
  21. Gardamir
    Gardamir 13 November 2022 07: 11
    +18
    But now we need a cold look at the situation, allowing us to predict the further development of events.
    The cold look is that one should not think in terms of the Great Patriotic War, and one should not confuse people.
    People who started a special operation cannot calculate the consequences. They could raise money, but I hysterically want to go to Europe. The villas are there. And taking into account the fact that they have been retreating since April, no one will return anywhere. Moreover, attempts to justify the surrender and accuse the supporters of Z/
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 13 November 2022 08: 42
      +9
      People who started a special operation cannot calculate the consequences.
      When they started it, they did not calculate "disasters with consequences". And they started, not because they were ready to start, but they started because they were not ready. We started, and then, how it will turn out. We hoped for "maybe", suddenly, it will give a ride. And here you have the interests of your oligarchs and obligations to partners, who, after the start of the NWO, became not friendly, but before that, apparently, they were friendly.
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. AndrewMv
    AndrewMv 13 November 2022 07: 12
    +11
    Well, in theory, after the surrender of Kherson, the SVO is all. We have been defeated at this stage, it must be admitted. The reasons are the lack of political will to win, sabotage and betrayal in the top political and military leadership, the lack of modern means of warfare, the supply of Western weapons, strategic miscalculations, and the lack of objective analytics.
    In general, it is necessary to prepare normally, to fully update weapons, change commanders, change approach. Now we are waiting for a few more retreats: Kinbur Spit, Kherson region, Zaporozhye - 100% will be surrendered. What will happen to Crimea and the LDNR is a question, but I won’t be surprised that they will also surrender. In general, the defeat will be crushing, however, it is necessary to sober up the authorities, to heal Russia from all this corruption, thieves, unprincipled. We need changes in the system of power and government of the country. Someday there will be a victory, but not now.
    1. Karabin
      Karabin 13 November 2022 15: 13
      +3
      Quote from AndrewMv
      In general, the defeat will be crushing, however, it is necessary to sober up the authorities, to heal Russia from all this corruption, thieves, unprincipled

      This power will not sober up, and the electorate will pay for the defeat.
      1. tsvetahaki
        tsvetahaki 13 November 2022 23: 32
        0
        This power won't sober

        He will sober up, and it will be like in the movie "Katz offers to surrender, offers to surrender, offers to surrender ..".
    2. seamen2
      seamen2 13 November 2022 15: 46
      +3
      * it is necessary to sober up the authorities, to heal Russia from all this corruption, thieves, unprincipled. We need changes in the system of power and government*.
      you have amazingly thick rose-colored glasses..
  24. aglet
    aglet 13 November 2022 07: 20
    +6
    next frontier: armenian-genichesk. it's already being prepared. then, according to tradition, perekop, briefly
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 13 November 2022 14: 12
      +3
      The next breakthrough of the enemy will most likely be to Melitopol - Berdyansk, in order to cut our grouping into northern and southern parts. Then our southern part will have to flee to the Crimea and, as Wrangel once did, dig the Crimean Val. Will we hold the isthmus? I doubt. Will the Crimeans want to evacuate?
      Thank God, Ukrainians are still declaring that they only want to return Donbas and Crimea.
      1. jdiver
        jdiver 13 November 2022 14: 52
        +3
        if all this happens, our current country will no longer be
  25. Viktor fm
    Viktor fm 13 November 2022 07: 34
    +11
    The whole problem is in our leadership. Neither in people, nor in technology, but precisely in leadership, it is difficult to switch to solving urgent state problems after many years of cooperation.
  26. alexey_444
    alexey_444 13 November 2022 07: 45
    +7
    I have my own forecast, by the spring we will hand over the remnants of the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions, by the autumn we will leave the Donbass and Luhansk, we will give Crimea to the Turks, it will not survive without a bridge and the constant sinking of our ferries, we will give 300 billion for restoration and most importantly there will be peace. Impossible? I remember everyone was very happy about the end of the Afghan war, although the losses there were microscopic, and with our conduct of hostilities (we cannot do otherwise), next year we will lose 50 thousand mobilized killed, and when Putin offers peace with the withdrawal of troops, everyone will only be happy , a murmur is already heard why we need Donbass, false patriots who do not understand the weakness of our army are stopped by the FSB, they are already tired of dying in Ukraine. And stop talking about the destruction of bridges, we don’t have so many means of destruction, if we add to this that the Ukrainians do not give up when surrounded, and the bridges are deep in the rear, ferry crossings will be easily built.
    1. MBRSS
      MBRSS 13 November 2022 11: 20
      +5
      And stop talking about the destruction of bridges, we don’t have so many means of destruction ...

      Those. if the enemy can gouge the bridge with Himarsami, then we cannot with Iskanders? But Iskander is 5 times more powerful!
      Yes, there will be a consumption of missiles, but what prevents you from trying? At least once tried to hit and see the result? I don't remember something like that. Is it really a pity for a couple of missiles?
      1. solar
        solar 13 November 2022 12: 51
        +2
        To destroy the bridge, you need a very high accuracy of the ammunition, otherwise you will not get the effect.

        This is a strike on the bridge across the Dnieper in Zaporozhye. It looks spectacular, but the rocket missed by several meters. The whole result is broken glass in a passing train. The bridge remained standing.
        1. Fan-fan
          Fan-fan 13 November 2022 14: 20
          +4
          That's right, Hymars hits the bridge directly, while our Caliber and Iskander have less accuracy and don't hit. And our stock of such missiles is minimal. And the West will always throw Hymers to Ukraine. So stop asking - why the bridges are not destroyed, I answer - we simply have nothing to destroy the bridges.
          1. Voronezh
            Voronezh 13 November 2022 14: 53
            +3
            Did he count our missiles or who suggested it?
          2. MBRSS
            MBRSS 14 November 2022 14: 59
            0
            Those. video of the arrival of Caliber (or the X-101 was there) in the "window" and the video of the arrival of the Dagger in the "hut" - fake?
            I'm not being sarcastic, I just want to know. Bridges are wide enough.
      2. alexey_444
        alexey_444 14 November 2022 08: 19
        -1
        Himars are free, but escanders are very expensive, and we don’t have that many, we need to keep the Kuriles and Kaliningrad in mind, we have experience in intervention. Well, it’s not very accurate, there are a lot of videos when it hits far from the target. It would be possible to try a couple, I agree.
  27. Boris55
    Boris55 13 November 2022 08: 09
    -21
    It is necessary to attack Kherson from Chernigov, Sumy, Kharkov and down: Poltava, Dnepropetrovsk and Kherson.
    Only by taking control of all reservoirs on the Dnieper, it is possible to exclude the flooding of the Kherson region, including on the left bank of the Dnieper.

    You can simply take Kyiv, the center of control of Ukraine, as is done always and everywhere, and in all wars. How to resist small disparate gangs, we know how.
    1. gafovec
      gafovec 13 November 2022 09: 02
      +14
      Interestingly, at a rate of advance of several hundred meters, with the liberation of some village in DAYS, how long will it take us to move from Chernigov to Kherson?
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 13 November 2022 09: 41
        -14
        Quote from gafovec
        how long will we move from Chernigov to Kherson?

        As much as we need, so much we will. We have not yet fully put the first mobile staff into action, and in Ukraine there is already no one to recruit from the 6th call. The Ukrainians are already running out - they jumped ...

        The capture of Kyiv as a whole for the people of Ukraine will be less painful.
        1. El Barto
          El Barto 13 November 2022 11: 09
          -6
          How much do you need? In your opinion, it turns out that we haven’t killed the first set of mobilized yet, but the hohls have already buried 5 waves of mobilization, is there something to strive for?

          Yes, spit on this Kherson. They took it, they gave it up. Taking territories, leaving, exchanging in negotiations is normal. What was it attached to? What kind of morons came up with this? To arrange shame and humiliation?

          Everyone has already forgotten why it all started. From Hohland only military neutrality and disarmament were required. All.
          For this, it was not required to occupy and annex their territories. Fight with infantry too.
          The accession of territories is only necessary for fugitive hohlyatsky figures who wanted to return and crawl into the authorities, with all the profits in the form of theft of money and property, plus deal with old enemies.
          As a resident of the North-West, I do not need these territories or their inhabitants. I don't want to live with hohlyatsky freaks in the same country. But no one held a referendum among me.

          To achieve the original goals, you just need to bomb them, bomb them and bomb them again. So that they do not have electricity, water supply, sewerage, so that their cities and villages turn into cold ruins. In order to live in semi-dugouts, they poked around in the fields with a digging stick, were engaged in gathering and hunting for cats and dogs.
          Surround it all with a wall and drain chemical waste behind this wall
    2. alexey_444
      alexey_444 14 November 2022 08: 28
      -1
      What got Kyiv, Ukraine, is the eternal Makhnovshchina, they will also fight without a single control, they dealt with Bendery only by amnestying them, the last Bendera was caught in the oven in the 60s, have no illusions. In order to make such offensives, one must have a million attackers and put up with a hundred thousand dead. DPR and LPR went on the attack in February but quickly ran out
  28. steelmaker
    steelmaker 13 November 2022 08: 17
    +12
    "The Russian army should at least three to five times exceed the number of defenders"
    Judging by the way they scrambled from Kherson, this also reached our generals. And how the confusion shouted: "Yes, we are attacking the superior forces of the enemy with small forces. Yes, we are grinding them! Etc." The liberation of Ukraine, and not only Kherson, will be possible when the "agreements" with the enemy run out and we start to fight, and not conduct a military defense.
  29. avia12005
    avia12005 13 November 2022 08: 22
    +19
    No one contributed to the formation of the current Kyiv regime as much as Russia itself. If this is such a "cunning" plan, then for the first time in history a war is won by retreat, leaving the territories and throwing at least some part of the friendly population into hell.
  30. Eug
    Eug 13 November 2022 08: 49
    +5
    As for me, the contours of the upcoming agreement have already been revealed - in the near (2-4 years) future, the Right Bank will definitely not be Russian, rather, we need to look to prevent "rapid regroupings" in the Donbass and Zaporozhye region. There are several priority areas for the ZSU offensive, but the main one is connected with cutting off the land (not through the bridge) route to the Crimea. The number and equipment of the troops, the level of logistics and the motivation of the ZSU are quite capable of ensuring an offensive in several directions.
  31. Bogalex
    Bogalex 13 November 2022 08: 54
    +15
    The Kherson ledge had only one task - to use it as a springboard for a further offensive.

    Absolutely not.
    The main task of the Kherson ledge, like all other liberated territories of Ukraine, was to show that life under the tricolor is better than under the Ukrainian regime.
    And it is precisely this task that is missed.
    1. Laundryman
      Laundryman 13 November 2022 12: 45
      +3
      Quote: Bogalex
      that life under the tricolor is better than under the Ukrainian regime.

      And it was impossible to show this on the example of Voronezh?
      1. Bogalex
        Bogalex 13 November 2022 12: 59
        +2
        Maybe it is possible. Not me, you know, standing behind the projector)))
  32. St54
    St54 13 November 2022 08: 56
    +12
    If a grouping of troops cannot be safely supplied, then its destruction becomes a matter of time. I emphasize that for this the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not even need offensive actions - they would grind the remnants of the troops with mortars, rockets and shells

    In other words, have we already run out of iskanders, daggers, hailstones, sunbaths, hyacinths, helicopters, planes? Where is everything that could "ruffle up" those who will finish our group in Kherson? Everything that our military industry and personally the Minister of Defense was proud of at all sorts of military games and international salons.
    1. lis-ik
      lis-ik 13 November 2022 13: 59
      +2
      Quote: St54
      Everything that our military industry and personally the Minister of Defense was proud of at all sorts of military games and international salons.

      With the military industry, everything was already clear from the SU-57, T-14 and the main shame at the exhibition, the model of shit and sticks "Checkmate", but the perfume line was released. The main argument for everything is expensive. Naturally, when the freebie got the inheritance of the USSR, which they also managed to squander somewhere.
  33. Skyskreb
    Skyskreb 13 November 2022 08: 57
    +8
    I'm certainly not a strategist, but I'll go over the facts.
    In Kherson, we had a group of 30 thousand bayonets, against 40-50 thousand of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which already speaks of the impossibility of conducting a full-fledged offensive on their part. In our country, according to the words of the Supreme Lord, 300 have been mobilized, of which 50 are already in the combat zone. That is, 250 thousand soldiers in reserve, and at least some of them could be transferred to Kherson. In terms of supply, my opinion is complete rubbish, there are support forces, and air defense cover forces, the Air Force, and if necessary, you can overtake a bunch of barges from all over Russia to the Dnieper.
    I think it’s complete nonsense about the disadvantageous position of the troops, in the modern theater of operations, the relief has a secondary role, first of all, the correct selection of weapons, we don’t have 1242 (Battle on the Ice). Many will now stigmatize me, poking their noses at other sectors of the front where we were on the defensive, including "along the relief." I’ll answer right away - this is nonsense for you, in our time of speeds (not horse traction, as it was before the 20th century, and the Second World War was a 50 percent mechanized war), it’s not the heights above sea level that decide.
    Many wrote in VO and I want to support and supplement - mobilization is needed, mobilization of course in full and in all areas. But what was not said, who wants to leave a peaceful life and go to die (why is it not clear why, why do we need it? Seeing how the authorities behave ... this is another topic), for example, if you are in a company of 10 men, let's on the street, and the same people as the two of you come up to you, you will be afraid that they will roll you out at once, I think not, and when mobilizing, it’s easy to explain that the more of us there are, the easier and faster it will be for us to solve this all, without victims Of course it won’t do, but it happens, that’s what the war is for.
    Although in order to win a war, you need at least the desire to do it, I’m not even talking about will and so on.
    This war was not started to win, but we'll see how it ends.
    1. seamen2
      seamen2 13 November 2022 15: 54
      +2
      * mobilization is needed, mobilization of course in full and in all spheres. But what was not said, who wants to leave a peaceful life and go to die (why is it not clear why, why should we? on the street, and the same as the two of you come up to you, will you be afraid that they will roll you out at once, I think not, and when mobilizing, it’s easy to explain that the more of us there are, the easier it is *
      Che, take loans for equipment again? How many thousands of dollars do you need for equipment? to each.
      Bankers and crooks in uniform rub their paws happily..
    2. alexey_444
      alexey_444 14 November 2022 08: 43
      0
      300 thousand collected a million left, a couple of million 10 will leave, at best, otherwise someone will tell you how they will go to Moscow in the 17th year. Forget about it, people are different now, mobile and who left? Specialists, people with money for the most part, they gave birth quickly in 17 and won the Second World War, but now? Putin is not decisive for you, unlike you, he knows the true situation in society. Well, look, there are a lot of videos of how mothers' wives tease commanders that their children and husbands are sent under mortars. In the year 17, many officers were killed by soldiers for orders to go forward.
  34. gafovec
    gafovec 13 November 2022 08: 59
    +14
    What the hell is the rapid liberation of Kherson, Zaporozhye?????? We advance hundreds of meters a day, we liberate some village for days and weeks, and we leave the territory of half of the Kherson region in three days !!!!

    Troops on the LOWER coast on level ground under intense artillery fire will be SAFE??!!? Do not make me laugh....

    Oh, I'm afraid that more operations are waiting for us to save the lives of military personnel, to level the line of contact, to leave unpromising areas.
    1. Caretaker
      Caretaker 13 November 2022 09: 58
      +6
      Losses during the defense in floodplains, with the enemy in the city on the high opposite bank, will be higher than they could be in the defense of this city with prepared defense lines on the approaches and outskirts.
  35. Vladimir M
    Vladimir M 13 November 2022 09: 10
    +16
    It seems that we will not see Kherson as our own ears, and with it Odessa and Nikolaev. It is clear that Kherson is nothing but an agreement. It turns out that the Anglo-Saxons grabbed someone tightly by the balls and do not let go. The worst thing is that if our "rudders" are forced to freeze the conflict, it will only get worse in the future.
  36. Next
    Next 13 November 2022 09: 13
    +9
    Judging by our strategy in this war (its absence), Kherson is lost forever. Here, the rest can be handed over by agreement, the aligarhat will take care of it. This is a corporate style in general... The necessary decisions are made for so long that they have signs of deliberate sabotage, since at the time of adoption they are of little use. No one is responsible for anything, make no mistake, ideal conditions for sabotage. Join and leave, ingenious decisions one after another...
    1. iouris
      iouris 13 November 2022 09: 27
      -1
      Quote: Proximo
      Judging by our strategy in this war (its absence), Kherson is lost forever.

      Then discuss the strategy, not Kherson. "Kherson" is a tactic. And you are a strategist.
  37. ivan2022
    ivan2022 13 November 2022 09: 26
    +6
    Behind the back of the Armed Forces of Ukraine - the power of the defense industry of Western countries. They were already preparing to join NATO in 2014. And I don’t really believe that the leadership of the RF Armed Forces did not understand this when they started the SO.
    Then ...... eklmn .... why was it necessary to choose such a tactic?
    And why did it have to "fight for the Minsk Agreements" for 8 years?
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 13 November 2022 10: 26
      +5
      Good questions, sorry for no answers. hi
    2. VasyaRules
      VasyaRules 13 November 2022 10: 27
      +6
      And the West has not yet given them their modern tanks and long-range missiles ... draw conclusions
    3. Boris55
      Boris55 13 November 2022 10: 39
      -17
      Quote: ivan2022
      Behind the back of the Armed Forces of Ukraine - the power of the defense industry of Western countries.

      In the Second World War, the entire West worked for the Nazis, including the United States, Canada and the Small Britons. Nothing changed. What ended - remember?

      Let the enemies remember it,
      We do not threaten, but we say
      We passed, half the world passed with you,
      If necessary, we will repeat.

      Quote: ivan2022
      I do not really believe that the leadership of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation did not understand this when the SO began.

      Did we have a choice?

      "On January 22, 2022, Russian intelligence intercepted the order of the former commander of the National Guard of Ukraine, Colonel-General N. I. Balan, on the need to complete preparations for offensive operations by February 28, so that the Armed Forces of Ukraine could go on the offensive in early March. Balan resigned in January 2022 year, his place was taken by Lieutenant General Yu.

      Also at the disposal of the Russian Ministry of Defense came the Combat Order on the preparation of an offensive against the Donbass in March 2022, signed by the First Deputy Commander of the National Guard of Ukraine, Lieutenant-General V. V. Kondratyuk dated January 22.01.2022, XNUMX."

      Link: https://topwar.ru/196478-24-fevralja-2022-goda-svo-chego-my-izbezhali.html

      Quote: ivan2022
      And why did it have to "fight for the Minsk Agreements" for 8 years?

      The Minsk agreements gave us time to create new, super-modern weapons. Prepare troops for battle. Remember Syria, through which up to 90% of the flight personnel, as well as other branches of the military, passed ... Do you remember who Surovikin was?
      1. Non-fighter
        Non-fighter 13 November 2022 11: 23
        +6
        Well, let them attack! We've been digging through the defenses in the Donbas for 9 months now, ten meters a day. The official version - they set up SUCH there !!!
        And what have we been doing all these 8 years? If they had done at least half of what the Ukrainians set up, then the whole offensive would have ended.
        But to understand the simple fact that when we attack first, we will lose 100% of the information war and we will be the aggressors is not given?
        After all, if the Ukrainians would have attacked first, then the chances would still have been like this :(
      2. Gvardeetz77
        Gvardeetz77 13 November 2022 11: 45
        +8
        The Minsk agreements gave us time to create new, super-modern weapons.

        Weld barbecues on tanks and prepare for removal from the T-62 DH?
        In the Second World War, the entire West worked for the Nazis, including the USA, Canada and the Small Britons

        So they worked for Hitler that they lost about a million people, and Pokryshkin apparently fought on a Chinese-made Air Cobra?
    4. alexey_444
      alexey_444 14 November 2022 08: 54
      0
      They fought for Minsk because they knew what would happen now, everyone listened to Strelkov how he would have reached Lviv, but no one listened to Prilepin that the Ukrainians are no worse than us at war with poor supplies. I still don’t understand why our people believe in advertising , well, our super weapons were praised, etc. smart people knew how it really was.
  38. Vlad Victorich
    Vlad Victorich 13 November 2022 09: 26
    +2
    I think that by mid-December the "leadership" will be determined in the plans ... It will be necessary to speak at the "annual", but for now there is nothing to say plainly to the population.
  39. Prosha
    Prosha 13 November 2022 09: 35
    -21
    To everyone who disagrees with the abandonment of Kherson, submit a report on command, sort out positions in the General Staff and the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and write ... those to correct the shortcomings you indicated and the incorrectness of the leaders you criticize. But you are only capable of hysteria and minus on various resources, because you yourself are absolutely nothing!
    1. ivan2022
      ivan2022 13 November 2022 09: 59
      +7
      Quote: Prosha
      To everyone who disagrees with the abandonment of Kherson, submit a report on command, sort out positions in the General Staff and the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and write ... those to correct the shortcomings you indicated and the incorrectness of the leaders you criticize. But you are only capable of hysteria and minus on various resources, because you yourself are absolutely nothing!

      Lord! Here is a typical example of the hysteria of a former boss who forgot where he is and what he himself is at the moment.
      1. Prosha
        Prosha 13 November 2022 22: 17
        -1
        Vanechka, I have not been a boss for a very long time and have never been big, and I always tried in my place to correspond to the place and my skills that were required of me. And now I am professionally engaged in the work entrusted to me. And I know that the one who is always dissatisfied with everything is the least able to do something. Such a planid always has such a cry, "everything is lost, everything has been sold", normal professionals silently do their job. So let the military do what they were taught!
  40. The comment was deleted.
  41. Caretaker
    Caretaker 13 November 2022 09: 43
    +7
    ... One of the most promising areas for further Russian offensive is lost - the troops are withdrawn to the left bank of the Dnieper.

    First of all, the territory of the Russian Federation has been lost. Surrendered without a fight!
    The territory, the area is larger than besieged Leningrad, with crossings at a distance of 40 km. from the front line.
    Why was it possible to transfer the grouping along the existing crossings (3 stationary bridges plus pontoons) to the left bank in one night, but it was impossible to provide supplies?
  42. Petya Kuzmin
    Petya Kuzmin 13 November 2022 09: 52
    +8
    This whole "Strange Military Operation" is like some kind of "bloody performance" in which every "gesture of good will" loses all logic.
    1. jdiver
      jdiver 13 November 2022 14: 58
      +5
      every "gesture of good will" loses all logic.

      except for the logic of betrayal
  43. Yegres85101142
    Yegres85101142 13 November 2022 09: 55
    +2
    What are you talking about? Legally - Kherson region is part of the Russian Federation. This is no longer the territory of Ukraine and this fact is not subject to any discussion, negotiations. In fact, part of the territory of the Russian Federation is now under the occupation of a hostile state (Kherson, Donbass, LPR). And what was wrong in the Constitution just now about the fact that it is forbidden to negotiate and give away the territory of the Russian Federation? So what kind of negotiations on the surrender of part of the territories of the Russian Federation or the freezing of the conflict on part of the territories of the Russian Federation! Left bank of the Dnieper. Right. Most of the subject of the Russian Federation (DPR) is under occupation. Will we also negotiate and voluntarily freeze (give up) part of these territories of ours? Only after the complete liberation of our state territories can there be negotiations! Minus. Let's.
  44. vovochkarzhevsky
    vovochkarzhevsky 13 November 2022 10: 11
    +9
    Nothing good can be expected until the Russian oligarchs are neutralized.
  45. t200404
    t200404 13 November 2022 10: 13
    +9
    Under the current leadership of the country, it is impossible. To capture large cities, such decisions are needed that Putin will not go for.
  46. certero
    certero 13 November 2022 10: 18
    0
    Who in February read the joy of the fact that the Russian army does not run under blows from the air ...
  47. Ros 56
    Ros 56 13 November 2022 10: 23
    -5
    Everyone fancies himself a strategist..... As it will be in reality, time will tell. Until then, you can talk. wassat
  48. Zaplatkin_Ivan
    Zaplatkin_Ivan 13 November 2022 10: 23
    +11
    I'm new to the site here. I read the comments, some guys. Serious and thoughtful comments sometimes come across ... it's a pity that you can't swear and swear. (Well, at least you can call the author of the article a "teapot"?)
    As for the article by E. Fedorov "When Kherson becomes Russian again" (the author forgot to put a question mark). The answer to this question is simple - when the social system will change in Russia. Then not only Kherson will become Russian (Soviet), but also Ukraine and Kazakhstan, etc.
    What social order am I talking about? That's right - about communism. There is no need to remind you that this (in theory) requires a change in the existing bourgeois, anti-communist government in Russia, the corresponding communist ideology (new), the industrialization of the country, the construction of a new modern army, lustration and repression, and much more.
    And these are hardships and hardships for the vast majority of the country's population, a low standard of living for decades. A return to the way of life of the years of the 50s of the last century. Question: Is the sofa audience ready for this? In essence, the opinion of the sofa public does not give a damn, no one really asks anyone. Then the question is: is there a social class in Russia capable of becoming the engine of reforms?
    Let's say there are forces in the country that can start (revolutionary) transformations in the country. Will the global West allow the revival of communism in Russia? The answer is obvious. How obvious is the answer to the question when Kherson will become Russian. Never.
    1. MBRSS
      MBRSS 13 November 2022 11: 41
      +1
      Will the global West allow the revival of communism in Russia?

      Are you talking about intervention or nuclear war? The intervention seems to have already begun.
      1. Zaplatkin_Ivan
        Zaplatkin_Ivan 13 November 2022 12: 01
        +1
        You, my friend, argue in the logic of the "hot" stage of the confrontation between the West and Russia, in the logic of military operations: military intervention or a nuclear strike. And there is also a multi-valued logic - social and means and methods of warfare are visible in the background.
        Of course, the West did not stop waging a "cold" war against Russia with the collapse of communism, the cold war has grown into a "warm" one and is rolling down an inclined plane into the "hot" stage. You can answer the question: does modern Russia have the resources (economic, military, managerial, ideological, intellectual, etc.) to wage a victorious war with the West?
        1. MBRSS
          MBRSS 13 November 2022 12: 34
          +1
          I'm thinking based on your post. What do you mean by "will not allow"? Therefore, he asked how he would prevent it: invasion or total destruction? And this way and that the West will suffer losses.
          Of course, Russia does not have the resources to win. But the West doesn't either. We'll have to somehow negotiate with the communist country. Moreover, we have something to offer him for sale, gas and oil, for example.
          1. Zaplatkin_Ivan
            Zaplatkin_Ivan 13 November 2022 13: 48
            +1
            Yes, what kind of "invasion or total destruction" is there. It's all their past. Technologies for changing objectionable regimes are constantly being developed and improved in the West. Smart and sane people work in research and scientific centers in these areas. The West prefers to fight not with its own hands. The financial system of the West, pitting peoples against each other, bribery of the elite, the introduction of agents of influence (the fifth column), the ideology of Westernism, etc. And "The West has no resources", "Multipolar world", "Getting up from your knees", "Imperial bonds", "Deep people", "Peaceful coexistence", etc. - ideological fairy tales of the Kremlin for the Russian layman and no more. You can negotiate on an equal footing with an equal opponent. Otherwise, it happens as it happens - one standing, the other bent down. The principle of "black goo" in exchange for objects of civilization for a white person is the formula
            consolidation of inequality and "intervention" of the West against Russia without a single shot, because the status of a raw materials appendage does not imply social progress in principle.
    2. Adrey
      Adrey 13 November 2022 13: 39
      0
      Quote: Zaplatkin_Ivan
      Will the West Allow the Resurgence of Communism in Russia?

      Do not remind me when there was communism in Russia?
      1. Zaplatkin_Ivan
        Zaplatkin_Ivan 13 November 2022 14: 17
        +3
        Speaking of communism, I do not mean the ideological project of a certain society of universal happiness and prosperity, but a really existing and observable type of society. The classic and historically first example of communism is what could be seen in the Soviet Union before the beginning of Gorbachev's perestroika.
        1. Adrey
          Adrey 13 November 2022 14: 39
          0
          No. Let's call things and phenomena by their proper names. Enough newspeak for us: clap-explosion, smoke-fire, regrouping-retreat. Behind these manipulations, the very subject of the conversation is very cleverly hidden.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Adrey
              Adrey 13 November 2022 15: 08
              -1
              Quote: Adrey
              Quote: Zaplatkin_Ivan
              Will the West Allow the Resurgence of Communism in Russia?

              Do not remind me when there was communism in Russia?

              Quote: Zaplatkin_Ivan
              Speaking of communism, I do not mean the ideological project of a certain society of universal happiness and prosperity, but a really existing and observable type of society. The classic and historically first example of communism is what could be seen in the Soviet Union before the beginning of Gorbachev's perestroika.

              Quote: Adrey
              No. Let's call things and phenomena by their proper names. Enough newspeak for us

              Quote: Zaplatkin_Ivan
              What did you mean? I don't do newspeak.

              Thank you. This is where we end our conversation. hi
    3. jdiver
      jdiver 13 November 2022 15: 01
      +1
      it means that we will wait until everyone gets the simple idea that if everything continues as it goes, none of us, nor our children and grandchildren, will have tomorrow. as if only this understanding did not come too late.
  49. The comment was deleted.
  50. Seraphimamur
    Seraphimamur 13 November 2022 10: 29
    +1
    The logic of leaving Kherson is understandable if we take into account that we give Ukraine this city and forget about Nikolaev and Odessa in the future, Transnistria will also be crushed. Everything is going to end the war. Why? You can not compare the economy of Russia and the same European Union. Calculate for yourself: only an ordinary 195 thousand a month, they recruited 320 thousand mobilized and volunteers. And another 200 thousand initially fight. This is 101400000000 rubles per month. And the money for software: gasoline, footcloths and food? Where to get so much money? Cut the salaries of doctors and teachers?
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 13 November 2022 13: 25
      +6
      There is plenty of money in the reserves, but instead of them, the shaking of the rich will raise taxes and take money from the poor.
    2. sleeve
      sleeve 13 November 2022 14: 32
      +6
      about! Another new "argument")) "There is not enough money, we are weak."
    3. Yustas201
      Yustas201 13 November 2022 17: 09
      +1
      Not everything is measured by money ... There is still honor, conscience and calculation ...
      1. Santa Fe
        Santa Fe 13 November 2022 22: 39
        0
        There is still honor, conscience and calculation ...

        And more common sense

        This war is waged for the sake of war.

        It is beneficial for grandfather to “freeze” and stretch the situation in time, so that it is not so noticeable that his idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbquickly capturing the outskirts failed

        Withdrawing troops from everywhere at once could cost him the throne now.

        There are no more goals. The grandfather himself and none of his entourage planned to wage war. Now grandfather has to pretend that he is a military leader

        Unfortunately, people took it at face value. The people are demanding and waiting for some kind of victory. When no one can even really say what exactly they want from the outskirts