What will they shoot at us with?

56
What will they shoot at us with?

It’s not that another win on the Ukrainian side, but the Armed Forces of Ukraine really count on the fact that the supply of air defense systems from Western partners will be able to turn the tide in terms of conquering airspace in favor of Ukraine.

The other day, victory was celebrated due to the fact that the American company Raytheon Technologies supplied NASAMS anti-aircraft missile systems to the Armed Forces of Ukraine. It's joyful news for Ukrainians? Well, if on a global scale, then yes. If you look at the quantity, perhaps the degree of joy will drop noticeably, because the complexes were delivered TWO.




TWO anti-aircraft missile systems, albeit the latest generation. No, to cover some particularly important object with them, this is quite enough. In order to have a serious impact on the situation as a whole - of course not.

The Americans promised to deliver two more NASAMS air defense systems "within a few weeks." Such an incredible speed is due to the fact that most of the components have already been produced and it only remained to assemble the air defense system.

But with regards to other complexes that did not lie in warehouses in the form of parts and components, it took a little longer with them. Ukraine can count on the six promised NASAMS air defense systems to be delivered “within a few months.”

It is worth emphasizing that "several" is both two and eight. Two months is still all right, but eight months already does not look so optimistic and smacks of real zrada. After all, you must admit that the point is not to happily report on the work done and the assistance provided, but to actually strengthen the Ukrainian army. And ten air defense systems, stretched in deliveries for a year - well, this is just some kind of posturing.

And yes, from our side it looks just great. I can only imagine what kind of laughter stands within the walls of Almaz-Antey, where our air defense systems are assembled.

The German allies are also great in this regard. They also contributed to the strengthening of Ukraine's air defense, putting ONE SAM IRIS-T. And promising three more after a while.


Yes, IRIS-T is a very, very serious air defense system. Something between our Buk-M3 and Tor-M2. IRIS-T allows you to hit targets at a distance of 1 km to 40 km and an altitude of up to 20 km, that is, it works further than the Tor, but closer than the Buk. The complex is very good, judging by the numbers given by the manufacturer Diehl Defense.

In total, we get 10 (ten) NASAMS and 4 (four) IRIS-T.


It's a lot? This is very little. Considering the state of the air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine today, forced to use very old missiles that fly to the devil knows where, these 14 complexes will not correct or improve the situation at all.

Of course, both Raytheon Technologies and Diehl Defense are counting on the successful use of their products in Ukraine, and in this regard, receiving orders from other countries for their products. For money, of course.

And it is very doubtful that something will break off to Ukraine in excess of what the Americans and Germans can supply as demo samples of their weapons.

Well, except for the Hawk air defense system, which the United States is thinking of making the Ukrainian military happy...


In fact, the question, by the way, is very serious. This is not about the "Hawk", which is the MIM-23 HAWK, a backronym for the word "hawk" - Eng. Homing All the Way Killer - "an interceptor controlled along the entire flight path", and about its modernization "Improved HAWK" or as it is also called, "Hawk-21".


This is a more advanced and more compact modification of the already modernized complex more than once. In the process of transforming Hawk into Hawk-21, the obsolete PAR and CWAR airspace surveillance radars were replaced with the modern MPQ-64 Sentinel three-coordinate radar.

Moreover, Raytheon Technologies, in collaboration with the well-known Norwegian company Kongsberg Defense & Aerospace, has developed a modern mobile guidance control point, which is also used in the Norwegian NASAMS air defense system.

Work was also carried out to modernize the rocket itself. Significantly improved and strengthened the high-explosive fragmentation warhead, thanks to which the Hawk can hit targets in a circle with a larger radius than before.

The new MPQ-61 HIPIR radar provided the Hawk-21 air defense system with all-round cover for the defended object, including from low-altitude air attack weapons and continuous illumination for MIM-23K missiles.

The fact that the complex is over 60 years old is not an indicator. Here the question is more about how carefully it was modernized. Our S-300 is also quite a few years old, it has been in service since 1975, and is still relevant.

In the same way, the "Hawk" is quite relevant, judging by the way they worked on it.

And there is another very subtle nuance: over the years of production, just a huge number of the complexes themselves were produced, and the number of missiles for the Hawk went over 40 thousand pieces.

What does it say? Yes, that there is where to scrape the barns in favor of Ukraine. There are countries that, like the same Slovenia and Macedonia, losing slippers, will rush to supply their "Hawks" on the condition of receiving at a discount something more modern like the same IRIS-T. Romania, Albania, Italy, the Netherlands - there is someone to ask.

Yes, and the US Marine Corps recently abandoned the Hawks, they probably haven’t been cut yet. But the main thing is that there are a lot of missiles for the complex.

I think they will. They won't go anywhere.

Another question: how much will all this raise the combat potential of the air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine? Really serious question.

Probably, many will like my opinion that it is very weak. And here it is worth explaining why.

The fact is that the air defense system is not the Hymars, which can work solo. He arrived, entered the coordinates, fired rockets and went back. Everything is more complicated here.

The modern anti-aircraft missile system is very different from the quad machine gun of the Maxim system during the Great Patriotic War. This machine gun could be placed on the roof of a protected facility, and from there the calculation made attempts to repel attacks from the air.

A modern air defense system cannot work like that. No, to some extent the same "Buk" can, but then it's not worth talking about efficiency.


And a modern anti-aircraft missile division (in our country) and an anti-aircraft missile battery (in NATO) are a rather complex organism called a tactical fire unit, which includes:
- command post;
- multifunctional radar;
- launchers;
- means of communication and interfacing;
- TZM with a second ammunition load of missiles.

And this is the very minimum that is effectively combat-ready. And some air defense systems, like the aforementioned S-300s, generally have regimental equipment. And it additionally includes reconnaissance equipment such as NVO (low-altitude detector) or VBO (all-altitude detector).

The fact that Ukraine received single copies of the NASAMS and IRIS-T SLM air defense systems, and in the future also the Hawks, will, of course, increase the capabilities of the air defense system in the direction where these air defense systems will be located.

But I would like to emphasize very boldly that these air defense systems will have to operate in decentralized control mode, that is, almost autonomously.

At least everyone who has anything to do with the topic already understood what I mean. The fact that all Soviet systems were developed in such a way that it is simply unrealistic to include in their circuits automated control systems and target designation of imported air defense systems. So it will not be possible to "sew" our P-37 onto the F-16, in the same way, any Soviet-style control system (and there are no others in Ukraine) with an American or German / Norwegian air defense system will not work.

It's just that when developing Soviet air defense systems, slightly different principles were implemented than those on which Western weapons systems were implemented.

The Soviet complex of automation equipment for the command post of an air defense formation can control the actions of up to 15 air defense regiments, 5 regiments aviation Air defense and up to 12 RTR and EW battalions. Data on a variety of targets are processed and the issuance of non-search target designation to fire weapons is provided.

How to fit American and German air defense systems into the existing and even operating in Ukraine Soviet-style air defense system, I would not like to answer this question, because I have no idea about the architecture of these systems. But here it is clear that this is generally unlikely.

So it turns out that imported air defense systems, which have even higher characteristics than those in service with the air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, cannot be inscribed in the existing air defense target designation system of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and therefore are doomed to the role of local air defense systems.

Let me draw an analogy: NASAMS, an excellent air defense system, will play the role of Strela-10 on the battlefield and nothing more.


I have already said that the minimum tactical fire unit, in our case, the battery of the same second iteration NASAMS, consists of 12 launchers of 6 AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles each, EIGHT (!!!) AN / MPQ-64F1 radars Improved Sentinel, one FDC control center, one electron-optical camera vehicle (MSP500), and one tactical control vehicle.

This is what will work, controlling a sector of space and destroying all air targets in it at achievable heights.

What can one installation do? Nothing. Yes, it can be used as a teaching aid and develop trained personnel. In theory.

And it will not be possible to practically realize the potential of Norwegian and German air defense systems, since they simply need appropriate automated control systems. At least the battery level.

And then more. Next, you need to update the radar, without them, too, nowhere. Accordingly, they must also be of NATO standards.

Yes, Ukraine has its own production of radars, and the Ukrainians created quite decent radars on the basis of the Soviet backlog, but ... who will need them now?

The fact is that Ukraine does not have its own production of missiles for air defense systems. The Soviet stockpile has been practically shot to pieces; today, missiles removed from storage are used, which pose no less danger to those who launch them. But there is nowhere to go.

Well, NATO has missiles. But they need radars, but this is also a problem. It is doubtful that Ukrainians will be able to master the production of radars for air defense systems of NATO countries, this is already a business and nothing personal. Norwegians, Germans, Americans - they will all be happy to help. For money. And sell your missiles along with everything else.

The factories of the military industry that produced Ukrainian radars can be honored with a moment of silence. You can not even spend Russian missiles on them, the factories will die because Ukraine does not have its own anti-aircraft missiles.

But Ukraine simply has no other choice. Either no air defense systems, or Western ones. The stock of Soviet missiles is rapidly running out, the systems are also being destroyed by the Russian side, so with all the will, there is only one way out: to buy in the West.

It is clear that in Ukrainian transcription it will look like “give us free of charge”, but free of charge cannot last forever.

So in any case, deliveries of individual complexes of NATO countries will not make the weather in the Ukrainian sky. And the Armed Forces of Ukraine will have to switch to NATO standards, there is no getting away from this, except perhaps simply to capitulate, admitting defeat.

However, the price of the issue is simply huge. Even the ancient "Hawk" (modernized) for 18 missiles costs about 200 million dollars. And he won't be alone. And the air defense system will need not only operators, but also engineers and technicians for repair and maintenance.

The issue price is expressed in billions of dollars. For other countries, such rearmament sometimes took decades, but in the current conditions of the war in Ukraine, everything can happen even faster.

Although the feeling is ambiguous. Faster does not necessarily mean that Ukraine, with the help of the West, will rearm itself on NATO systems, no. This is costly, and so much so that partners may not agree to it. Refused with tanks and aircraft, this may well happen with air defense systems. It's also not cheap.

So the transition of the air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to NATO standards is a very slippery issue.

However, everything will become clear pretty soon. When the last Soviet missiles from old stocks run out.
56 comments
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  1. +21
    3 November 2022 05: 49
    it is very doubtful that something will break off to Ukraine beyond what the Americans and Germans can supply as demo samples of their weapons.

    The author is an optimist, however.
    I now believe that deliveries in the future will only increase.
    We are saved only by the fact that the Armed Forces of Ukraine do not have a balanced air defense system integrated into a single whole ... but this is just a matter of time.
    If the SVO drags on for several years, the Americans will quickly help the Ukronats to create a full-fledged layered air defense with all the attributes.
    So far, we still have time and opportunity to prevent this from happening.
    1. -6
      3 November 2022 06: 05
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      I now believe that deliveries in the future will only increase.

      Ukraine has already hung like a stone around the neck of the West. It is not in vain that the voices of leading figures in Western countries are beginning to be heard that it is time to end this war. Yes, they support them, but at the same time they transfer mostly obsolete weapons, which they themselves remove from storage bases on which equipment for weapons of the second echelon is located in case of war. What modern weapons do we see besides Himers and those were 21 pieces, 15 left?
      German PzY2000 as many as 5 pieces, M-777, French 12 self-propelled guns CAESAR. There is nothing more modern.
      1. +13
        3 November 2022 06: 26
        You might think that we have only novelties in the field of weapons at the forefront. There is a father of a helicopter pilot on this forum, I think he is not happy with this news. At first I thought that the author was Kirill Ryabov, but I was mistaken.
        1. +11
          3 November 2022 06: 58
          You might think we have some new items in the field of weapons at the forefront
          The topic is very interesting! Before the operation, a lot of equipment was announced. A whole zoo of armored vehicles, electric motorcycles and buggies for the Airborne Forces. What do we have today with motorcycles, ATVs, buggies, military pickups, ambulances and land, surface, underwater and air drones? Somehow, with the beginning of the operation, all the novelties of the Russian military-industrial complex mysteriously disappeared. That suits a fighter measuring his pressure, pulse, temperature and location with jeepies. That is an instant exchange of information of all warring equipment and fighters. How did our military radios prove themselves in the operation? Night vision devices and infrared sights heaps? How about off-road vehicles? Will we mobilize Toyotas and Cruisers together with the owners? Which of the modern weapons have been tested and run in operations? Well, about flying drones, of course. A wide open window of application and a narrow supply gap. It would be nice for the editors of VO to make a series of articles on this topic. Those who fight and volunteers certainly know about the equipment used. But VO readers could be enlightened.
          1. +2
            3 November 2022 11: 05
            What do we have today with motorcycles, ATVs, buggies, military pickups, ambulances and land, surface, underwater and air drones?

            Chainsaws, grinders, planers ... etc. etc.
          2. +2
            3 November 2022 17: 12
            "make a series of articles on this topic", and who will do it?
            Novel? It is unlikely that he is more imprisoned for polemics, but here a painstaking analysis is needed.
            Kiril? He has experience in detail work
        2. -3
          3 November 2022 09: 34
          It's not entirely clear what this is for.
          Quote: ASAD
          You might think we have some new items in the field of weapons at the forefront
        3. 0
          3 November 2022 16: 51
          "but I was wrong" in my opinion, Cyril is a more responsible author
      2. +4
        3 November 2022 16: 25
        Polish "Krab" .Swedish Agcher, Dana ,,,, is this old of course?
        1. +2
          3 November 2022 16: 55
          Roman does not remember these settings. Or does not want to remember
        2. 0
          4 November 2022 01: 19
          Czech Dana junk development of 1976, there are no Swedish Agchers in Ukraine. Of the 18 donated Polish Crabs, not a single one seems to be left. They turned out to be too problematic, they often fail and even the trunks fly off from firing.
    2. 0
      3 November 2022 06: 45
      CBO for several years is a lot. We probably need to finish this badyaga either by the new year, or by the spring sowing season. Regarding the supply of these systems, here I think rather than helping the outskirts, how much testing in real combat operations of modern warfare. Although it is likely that a small flock of penny mopeds will quickly cover all their testing with a copper basin.
      1. +3
        4 November 2022 00: 23
        Quote: North Caucasus
        We probably need to finish this badyaga either by the new year, or by the spring sowing

        Hm. Interesting offer.

        And how do you plan to do it?
    3. 0
      3 November 2022 12: 04
      The only thing that saves us is that the Armed Forces of Ukraine do not have a balanced air defense system integrated into a single whole

      It is, the author is just not quite up to date. ACS "Virage-tablet", I have given the details below.
      1. -2
        4 November 2022 00: 22
        Quote from solar
        ACS "Virage-tablet",

        Well, this is not the Ukrainian NORAD, this is a decision made on the knee. And the new complexes are no longer a collective farm, they are all with link 16. There is not a flight radar on Android to warn when to get a shaitan pipe (not to stand on your shoulder all day and night), but a full-fledged online data exchange between all system components and any external sources of the NATO standard.
        1. 0
          4 November 2022 01: 32
          So we are not talking about attacks on hundreds of aircraft and missiles. Maybe link16 is a higher level, but complete information about the air situation on almost every launch site is a big deal. What is for MANPADS, what is for air defense systems.
          Moreover, we do not know all the functions. Converting data to an exchange protocol is not such a difficult task. Not link16, but its emulator on a different technical base. Of course, it will be far from the level of reliability of link16, but for the level of hostilities that are being conducted, this may be quite enough. After all, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have been working on the transition to NATO standards for a long time, it is quite possible that something like this is envisaged.
          1. 0
            4 November 2022 01: 42
            Quote from solar
            complete information about the air situation on almost every launcher is a big deal.

            Yes, the idea is good, no one argues.
            Quote from solar
            Converting data to an exchange protocol is not such a difficult task.

            No. The systems under discussion have a human interface, they bring information to the operator, and he is already working with weapons. The modern approach is a full-fledged information-strike system, where the only task of the operator is to confirm the launch of the rocket. Search, selection of targets, work with weapons - all this is done by the machine.

            That is, in fact, you need to write a separate system that would upload information from this flight radar to the same nasams. By the way, not the fact that it is generally needed.
            1. 0
              4 November 2022 02: 27
              If there is a mark on the screen, it means that the necessary information about the coordinates, speed, course, flight profile of the target is also available in this very computer, otherwise the mark would not have appeared. Another thing is that it can be represented in another standard. that is, you need to recode one data representation standard into another. The task is not difficult for a modern computer. Of course, link16 is far from being only a data presentation format, it is also a technical implementation of the information transfer protocol, which is very complex and perfect, so it’s difficult to get a full-fledged link16, but data emulation is quite, and not very difficult, so I admit that it is, fully or partially.
              But even without this, the system will work, although it would, of course, work better, more reliably and faster with these.
              But still, it cannot be said that there is no centralized air defense control system.
              1. 0
                4 November 2022 12: 01
                This flight radar does not provide data for launching a rocket. At most, it indicates a threatened direction - but it is not known how much the system needs this. It will start working only when the target is processed by its radars - to send a rocket for a million bucks somewhere there, according to the data of the flight radar, is not an idea.
  2. +9
    3 November 2022 06: 47
    Everything is on the rise thanks to the co-operation of the Kremlin officials. They play global politics, and as a result, more ordinary people die. Fuck strategists.
  3. +7
    3 November 2022 06: 50
    Author, please don't treat us. The problem is not in missiles, but in the stubborn unwillingness to eliminate the supply of these same missiles and other such things. All "abundance" is not teleported from sleepy Joe's trouser leg, but rides, flies and swims with impunity.
  4. +9
    3 November 2022 07: 00
    Good article .... There is nothing to be afraid of, but what is worth it is not enough and even that is rubbish ... Hmm .... And our pilots no longer fly properly. Balabol author and yap
    1. -7
      3 November 2022 07: 20
      Moreover, "they don't fly" at the same time is conjugated with the fact that "everyone was knocked down" ... At airfields, go ... And this, judging by the characteristic waste heap, is probably a US attack aircraft in Syria
      https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/afirsov/14754672/1497993/1497993_original.gif
      These are not contrails near Nikolaev from 6 (!!!) bombers, but seagulls shit in flight

      And this is not a half-ton rasp with a separable warhead thrown, it was the dill that shot him down, because of which he did not fly at all

      Is this platypus also hiding from air defense?
      https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/afirsov/14754672/1457771/1457771_original.gif
      1. +1
        3 November 2022 20: 25
        Judging by the flight altitude of the platypus, it is precisely hiding from mobile air defense systems, while running into MANPADS, Cheetahs, British air defense systems and even a banal machine gun, which will definitely bring it down, because the Su34 is not an attack aircraft, but a bomber, moreover, tactical, it must not a couple of bombs, but 5-6 fabs and missiles to throw at enemy positions without entering the air defense zone and dump into the sunset ...
        1. -4
          3 November 2022 20: 37
          It flies at medium altitude over the suppressed air defense electronic warfare and not a single launch was made on it, it throws not a couple of bombs, but at least 4 five hundred tons)) And calmly dumps into the sunset, having shot a couple of traps for decency, not a single launch on it
          1. +6
            3 November 2022 23: 15
            Average??? He flies over the trees. And tell me how electronic warfare suppresses MANPADS. It will be very interesting to know
  5. +2
    3 November 2022 07: 42
    Just like now. The air defense system can operate on direct target designation and illumination from AWACS. Especially in the western regions. We need large maneuverable drones and RTR aircraft to identify detection and illumination locators in the central, southern and eastern Krajina. I'm an amateur, correct me.
  6. +2
    3 November 2022 08: 54
    The German allies are also great in this regard. They also contributed to the strengthening of Ukraine's air defense by supplying ONE IRIS-T air defense system.

    And I'll just remind you that six months ago the Germans could not send three thousand helmets for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, there were always some problems. And now the latest air defense is being discussed, of which even they themselves have 10 pieces or so in their troops.
  7. +3
    3 November 2022 09: 34
    Of course, not much and now not much, but it's better not to fly. Yes, and highmars and everything else is not strong, but the same Chechens are clearly of a different opinion.
  8. +9
    3 November 2022 09: 36
    Seriously - not seriously, scary, not scary. The question is different. Our aviation cannot work freely! Wasting expensive rockets when conventional bombs are cheaper. They are already planning to buy missiles from Iran. We are losing to the West, because their industry is stronger. Even the supply of individual complexes creates big problems for us. In general, we are not fighting correctly.
    I have a childhood friend. Now he is a military pensioner. A month later, NWO, we didn’t even become enemies a little. I scold Putin, but for him he is a saint. In general, they parted without understanding each other. And yesterday he called, called the vacation "wash". I then could not stand it and said that again they screwed up with the grain deal. And he says: "There is such a" loot "spinning that Russia's interests are second." So guys, let's get serious. General views have emerged.
  9. +5
    3 November 2022 10: 13
    Some people expressed the opinion that the supply of weapons is deliberately made small so that Russia is not "scared", so that it gets stuck and Victory always seems close.
    Moreover, gradual deliveries are much easier to serve logistically, politically, and militarily.
    all the more so - to justify the supply of junk.

    In principle, everything is logical.
    And the amounts - 200 million - are, in principle, small for testing in practice ...
    1. +4
      3 November 2022 12: 11
      I understood this a long time ago. For a gradual and smooth build-up, provocations periodically occur (like Butch), after which the flow of weapons grows. which reports to the GDP that the enemy will soon run out of steam. And things are still there hi
      1. 0
        7 November 2022 22: 45
        How the US military-industrial complex can "not cope" can be seen in the Second World War. Of course, a lot of time has passed, but we do not have the industry of the USSR either. Oh yes, a united Europe is still on the other side, only the US military-industrial complex is running out of steam and is working against us, and has not even begun to seriously accelerate.
    2. 0
      4 November 2022 21: 13
      there is no point in mass deliveries because first you need to train the staff, the West can supply a lot of things
  10. +2
    3 November 2022 10: 26
    Something Bongo has not been seen for a long time. Has he finished his streak?

    On the merits of the question. Ukrainian air defense is built on Soviet systems. They basically have nowhere to upgrade and nowhere to get missiles. In combat conditions, they quickly consume irreplaceable BC and the rest of their resource.

    The transition to Western systems is inevitable. It's slower than expected, but it's happening nonetheless. Unlike other types of weapons, the allies did not clowning and immediately supply the latest systems. These systems will become nodes on which new air defense will be built up on top of the old one in the future. The Nasams battery stopped - the S-300 division left for another place.
    1. +3
      3 November 2022 11: 11
      hi
      "Something Bongo has not been seen for a long time. Did he finish his series, or what?" He writes about anti-tank aircraft BB2. "I decided to move away from Ukrainian air defense, and change the subject to neutral."

      These systems will become nodes on which new air defense will be built up on top of the old one in the future. The Nasams battery stopped - the S-300 division left for another place.

      IMHO, for starters Buki will move closer to the LBS. Low-mobile air defense systems will continue to be on the "second line".

      A rather interesting question is "what will happen when Iranian missiles arrive, which formally violate the status quo with respect to the INF Treaty." Closing cities from RMSD even with Patriots / SAMP-T is an unpractical task, perhaps there will be an attempt to cosplay the "hunt for Scuds" from the time of "Desert Storm" ....
      In general, the defense of the Russian language will take on more and more unusual forms.
      1. 0
        3 November 2022 11: 55
        Quote: Wildcat
        Closing cities from RMSD even with Patriots / SAMP-T is an unpractical task

        Well, actually, it is clear to everyone except pink ponies that if Ukraine and its allies want to stop strikes on the rear, then a political solution is needed. Iron Dimon offers recognition of the new borders of the Russian Federation, but there may be other options. For example, "both sides refuse strikes deeper than 100 km from the contact zone."

        The problem with the second option is also obvious. The Russian Federation is not interested in it, since it has an advantage in this component. And it is clear how this attitude of the Russian Federation can be changed.
  11. +1
    3 November 2022 10: 27
    For the information of the author. Our crap cannot fit into their system, but their systems into ours is easy. Our electronics level is lower
    1. +3
      3 November 2022 11: 53
      The United States has long been buying Ukrainian-made radars by the piece, for study, including for the purpose of integration. They are well versed in Soviet / post-Soviet technology, they screwed the HARM to the MiG-29 and Su-27 once or twice, in a collective farm way, through an "adapter", but it works.
  12. +4
    3 November 2022 10: 55
    This is not about the "Hawk", which is the MIM-23 HAWK, a backronym for the word "hawk" - Eng. Homing All the Way Killer - "an interceptor controlled along the entire flight path", and about its modernization "Improved HAWK" or as it is also called, "Hawk-21".

    Here the author clearly reported. We are talking about the MIM-23 Hawk Phase III, which are in service in Spain. And Hawk XXI is still available only in Turkey and Iraq, and neither one nor the other is going to share it with Ukraine yet.
  13. +2
    3 November 2022 11: 21
    Well, Skomorokhov is a dashing man ... he can wave his saber! Just catch the topic in his eyes ... whack and ... take away the finished one "! But in a hurry you need to be able not only to work ... to dress inside out; but also do not make mistakes and "omissions" in the article! This is not about the "Hawk", which is the MIM-23 HAWK, a backronym for the word "hawk" - Eng. Homing All the Way Killer - "an interceptor controlled along the entire flight path", and about its modernization "Improved HAWK" or as it is also called, "Hawk-21".
    "Improved HAWK'' and ''HAWK-21" are two American differences! After the development and adoption of the I-HAWK (1964-1972) with the MIM-23B missile, the United States set about implementing a plan to further improve the complex ... (PIP). This PIP was subdivided into "phases" (PIP-1,2,3 ...) "HAWK-21" appeared somewhere, in PIP-3 or immediately after ... with a rocket, if I don't changes memory, MIM-23K u further ... This is to the fact that the "Improved HAWK" complexes with a missile from MIM-23B to MIM-23K can be found in service, although many of them have undergone modernization according to "national" plans, but such modernization, often not very significant ... But there are also "advanced" complexes ... "actually" HAWK-21 ...
    By the way, the HAWK complexes are "comparable" to the "Buks" ... but, I think that our "Buks" are better! Even the 9M317 SAM with a semi-active radar seeker ("Buk-M2") can be guided in the initial (middle) section of the trajectory using an INS with radio correction, not immediately turning on the seeker ... HAWK uses a semi-active radar seeker during guidance, which should be "on "constantly ... and the radar too!
    One of the reasons for the "non-suppression" of coming out air defense is the insufficient use of anti-radar missiles (PRR), according to some military experts ... If there were "mentions" on the VO about the X-31PD PRR, then nothing about the Kh-58UShKE PRR! Although the Kh-58UShKE is a more modern missile! BC=150 kg; Range - over 200 km; Great supersonic speed; passive radar seeker + INS, which allows the PRR to successfully hit radars even after they are "turned off"! But an improved Kh-58UShKE (TP) with an additional television guidance system has already been created! Which allows the PRR to be aimed both at radar targets, "remembering" their television "image", and at other (except for radar ...) ground targets!
  14. 0
    3 November 2022 11: 51
    And the thought that everything must be done to deprive them of the opportunity and even the thought of "shooting at us" did not visit? I understand that this is the work of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief... Therefore, the question is: for how long?
  15. 0
    3 November 2022 11: 52
    Roman correctly writes the main stocks of MIM missiles; this is terrible junk, because. for Europe they were made in 70-80 under the USSR, but in this situation it is realistic to make a "month of Ukrainian air defense". Use the experience of our opponents.
    Attacks with cruise missiles and mopeds must be coordinated with special regiments assigned to destroy the air defense system of Ukraine. Two - three A-50s (Kursk region, northern Crimea, Black Sea) should be in the air during the attacks. Attacks should be carried out in several waves. According to the results of opening the enemy radar and launcher areas during the passage of mopeds and missile launchers, the second wave of launches takes place taking into account the Kh-31PD approach time. You can work out this system at the air defense of Kyiv. And another question: Is it not necessary to give an increased monetary bonus for the destruction of air defense systems to all units without exception. At least the Airborne Forces with lancets, at least aviation, hot art? It is clear that Ukraine's air defense is the second most important infrastructure after energy.
  16. +3
    3 November 2022 11: 59
    any Soviet-style control system (and there are no others in Ukraine) will not work with an American or German / Norwegian air defense system.

    The author seems to be a little behind the times.
    We must not forget that the time is now different, computer.
    The Armed Forces of Ukraine have long been armed with the Virazh-tablet and Nettle systems for lighting the situation and target designation, which allow everyone who joins the system to enter data on targets and see the entire situation in the area on the screen. What can we say about air defense systems, if they are used for target designation by MANPADS calculations, and there are even more opportunities for air defense systems. Firebomber wrote about them
    "Virage - Tablet" is a Ukrainian program that displays online data on the air situation to the user on any laptop. A kind of flyradar. Data is entered into the system from anything. From combat radars of air defense systems, RTV locators, dispatch locators, and I suspect that data from NATO Avaks and RTR aircraft can also be thrown onto it. The simplest radio modems and the Internet are used to transmit data, with which, thanks to Elon Musk and his Starlink, Ukrainians have no problems at all .... Thanks to this system, the type of target, course and flight altitude of our strike groups are promptly issued to calculations and air defense crews , and air defense systems with MANPADS calculations turn to the desired azimuth and wait for targets to enter their affected area without turning on radiation, that is, remaining invisible to missile launchers and electronic warfare systems of aircraft and helicopters almost until the moment of launch. ... mobile application "Krapiva". Everything is even simpler there, this is a program that anyone can download for themselves ... It can be installed on any smartphone or tablet and allows infantry and artillery in real time (thanks to the free Internet from Ilona) to indicate the tactical situation, targets on the electronic map , plan strikes, set targets for attack, quickly take accurate coordinates and distribute targets for strike between units.

    https://t.me/fighter_bomber/7332
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. +5
    3 November 2022 12: 52
    Hats flew again....
    Only two sets? The author, how much is this in the total salvo of missiles? How many PU?
    So for the first 4 months, everyone was blowing that the western deliveries of old tanks, howitzers, shells, spears and other weapons would not have much effect on the course of the NMD ... And in the 9th month of the war, oh yo, mobilization. Yo-my, but the equipment of the fighters is not there.
    Tired of hat throwers.
  19. +2
    3 November 2022 12: 58
    Well, in short, everything is fine with us. We sleep on.
  20. +1
    3 November 2022 13: 34
    I can only imagine what kind of laughter stands within the walls of Almaz-Antey, where our air defense systems are assembled.

    Do I really understand that, having wiped away tears from laughter, "Almaz-Antey" began to ship the first 10.000 of our air defense systems, so that they would have time to deploy around the country as protection from Ukrainian "shaid-mopeds", the start of production of which has already been announced by Orog? feel
  21. +2
    3 November 2022 15: 27
    Yes, even though they were supplied with a meager amount of air defense systems, but at the same time, Russian aviation does not conduct operations in the rear. Out of fear of losing the already small fleet, which is replenished no better than Western supplies of modern air defense systems to Nezalezhnaya?
  22. 0
    3 November 2022 16: 05
    Read how our air defense worked in the skies of Vietnam against the Americans. There was also such a tactic when they worked without prior detection by radars. Observers with binoculars sat and by telephone transmitted data on the course-place-altitude of enemy aircraft. Our S-75s turned on their radars at the last moment and fired rockets back to back. And there was an effect. So that any launcher can be put into action.
  23. -1
    3 November 2022 17: 25
    Comrades, I may be mistaken, but such topics are not for Roman. He is good at polemical articles, but here he has extremes: "boss, the mustache is gone. The plaster is being removed tomorrow" (c) or capping. And hatred in war is no less dangerous than panic. In any case, it is for the benefit of the enemy.
  24. +5
    3 November 2022 21: 27
    Not a very convincing article...
    The Armed Forces of Ukraine receive several modern missile defense systems of medium
    range.
    The complexes are sharpened to intercept cruise missiles in front of
    objects: cities and energy systems.
    Gradually cover large cities and power plants.

    And the remaining S-300s are engaged in aircraft at high altitudes.

    Kamikaze drones are a separate threat. They are fought with
    Polish "anti-drone" systems and anti-aircraft guns installed on the main directions of strikes.
  25. 0
    3 November 2022 23: 22
    Another mediocre article, which is aimed at stimulating hatred moods, but something doesn’t work out very well
  26. 0
    4 November 2022 13: 35
    However, everything will become clear pretty soon. When the last Soviet missiles from old stocks run out.
    Author:
    Planes and helicopters have, probably, gone to the end for the third time. There are reasons to think that the missiles will run out no earlier than konashenkoism. That is, never.
  27. 0
    8 November 2022 09: 55
    The article only reinforces the opinion that for at least minimal effectiveness, Western weapons must be operated by Western trained specialists. And perhaps the problem is not so much in the production of weapons in NATO countries, but in the recruitment of those who want to use them in Ukraine. Multimillion-dollar equipment in the hands of untrained or poorly trained operators loses its effectiveness many times over.
  28. 0
    9 December 2022 04: 50
    Let's wait and see how this whole story with air defense for Ukraine ends.
  29. 0
    28 December 2022 13: 48
    It's a lot? This is very little. Considering the state of the air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine today, forced to use very old missiles that fly to the devil knows where, these 14 complexes will not correct or improve the situation at all.

    Is our air defense in decent condition? If Soviet drones fly 500+ km over the territory of the Russian Federation unnoticed