Military Review

"Historical rake": For Russia, Ukraine today is the second Finland of the early 1940s

139
"Historical rake": For Russia, Ukraine today is the second Finland of the early 1940s

After Finland abandoned its neutral status and decided to apply for NATO membership, some of our compatriots are worried about the question: why a country loyal and in some aspects even friendly to Russia suddenly decided to go to a confrontation.


In general, the answer lies on the surface. One who is well acquainted with history, perfectly understands that the Finns have never considered Russia a friendly country.

Moreover, in the case of Ukraine, we stepped on the so-called "historical rake". After all, there is a striking similarity between our “western neighbor” and Finland.

Let's start with the fact that Finland first acquired its statehood in 1809, when the Russian Empire conquered it from Sweden. Then, for the first time, their own authorities appeared on this territory, and the Finnish language became the state language. Moreover, Finland was exempt from taxes, and her army did not fight for Russia.

Actually, Finland, like Ukraine (URSR) in 1919, owes its “birth” as a state to Russia.

In 1811, the Russian Empire gave Finland the province of Vyborg conquered from Sweden. Here it is worth recalling the accession to the Ukrainian SSR of Western Ukraine in 1939-1940 and the Crimea in 1954.

At the same time, the greatest historical similarity between these two countries is observed after their independence. Both Finland and Ukraine became separate states during sad events for our country: the collapse of the Russian Empire, which began in 1917, and the USSR in 1991, respectively.

From that moment on, both "independent" states took a course towards estrangement from Russia, and then completely turned into its enemies.

So, on the eve of the Second World War, Finland became an ally of Nazi Germany. By the way, the hallmark of the Finnish Air Force was the “Finnish swastika”, which the country abandoned only in 2020!

In the late 30s of the last century, unfriendly Finland posed a serious threat to Leningrad. Her artillery reached the city without the need to cross the border.

In this regard, the Soviet leadership was forced to take measures to push back the border and secure their territory.

Repeated attempts by the USSR to resolve the issue through negotiations were unsuccessful. Finland rejected any, even extremely beneficial for her, proposals. At the same time, and not least, Great Britain "incited" the Finns to confrontation with the Soviet Union, which is now doing the same trick with Ukraine.

In the autumn of 1939, the Finnish army shelled the border area of ​​the USSR. In turn, the Soviet leadership was immediately accused of provocation. We regularly observe something similar today in Ukraine.

It all ended with the fact that during the 4-month war, the Soviet Union conquered 11% of the territory of Finland, including Vyborg donated in 1811. The countries signed a peace treaty.

However, this did not bring results, since already during the Great Patriotic War, the Finns actively took part in the hostilities against the Red Army on the side of the Wehrmacht.

By and large, today the story described above is repeating itself, but with Ukraine: rampant “Russophobia”, an alliance with unfriendly states, provocations from the very same Britain (and the United States, of course) and a threat to our border cities.

At the moment, if we draw a historical analogy, then relations between Russia and Ukraine are at the level of the USSR and Finland in the early forties of the last century.

However, it is worth recalling that when there were literally three months left before the crushing defeat of the Third Reich, the "far-sighted" Finns were forced to sign a peace treaty on the terms of the Soviet Union. At the same time, it is also important that Great Britain, before the war, in every possible way supporting Finland, “without a twinge of conscience” bombarded it when it became clear that fascist Germany, together with its allies, were doomed.

The current Kyiv authorities should think about this carefully. After all, history tends to repeat itself.

At the same time, we should not have any illusions about the "age-old friendship" after the signing of a peace treaty on Russia's terms (this will happen sooner or later). Indeed, after almost 80 years, Finland, neutral and allegedly loyal to Russia, again sided with the enemy.

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139 comments
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  1. Igor Borisov_2
    Igor Borisov_2 28 October 2022 16: 19
    0
    A striking resemblance and our very offensive kindness to our neighbors ...
    1. Terenin
      Terenin 28 October 2022 16: 41
      +7
      Quote: Igor Borisov_2
      A striking resemblance and our very offensive kindness to our neighbors ...

      Let's not sprinkle ashes on our heads. If Russia exists, and even, according to the statement of "the entire progressive" West, it poses a threat to it, then Russia did everything right.

      And, in the Finnish war, like Khakhkin-Gol, real Soviet commanders were born who defeated the fascist military power of ALL Europe.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 28 October 2022 17: 04
        +1
        Unfortunately, something is happening again...
        There are commanders, warriors, and there are leaders / leaders who consider themselves the smartest.
        Alas and ah, the history of many has not taught anything, besides those who manage everything or give the most correct advice, those who manage everything!
        Och unpleasant to realize this, it is dangerous.
        1. Terenin
          Terenin 28 October 2022 19: 18
          +4
          Quote: rocket757
          Unfortunately, something is happening again...
          Greetings Victor hi
          Well, history repeats itself.


          Quote: rocket757
          There are commanders, warriors,
          That's about them and we must speak loudly and set them as an example to the young.

          Quote: rocket757
          and there are leaders / leaders who consider themselves the smartest.
          Who would doubt their assessment of themselves.

          Quote: rocket757
          Alas and ah, the history of many has not taught anything, besides those who manage everything or give the most correct advice, those who manage everything!
          Och unpleasant to realize this, it is dangerous.
          You said something cool, but I didn't understand request
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 29 October 2022 12: 47
            +2
            History repeats itself, it's like lessons to be learned, remembered.
            Some leaders decided that they were smarter than others and ... they also decided to ignore history. For those they lead, the consequences can be dire.
            1. ramzay21
              ramzay21 29 October 2022 19: 19
              +12
              History repeats itself, it's like lessons to be learned, remembered.

              From the very beginning, the author began to compare Finland and Ukraine incorrectly, and by this he tried to equate Stalin and Putin, which is fundamentally wrong.
              The author chose the most unsuccessful military operation of the Red Army, although the Red Army achieved its initial goals in the war with Finland in four months. The author did not mention the fact that the USSR took away its territories occupied by Poland and Romania bloodlessly.

              And Ukraine should be compared with Ukraine, the Red Army also liberated it, only Lenin did it smartly, he pitted bandits against nationalists and White Guards, gave ideas and goals that were understandable and close to people in Ukraine, and Ukraine became ours.

              And what is happening now is the most mediocre military operation of our country.
              If this SVO had been started in 2014, then it would have passed with virtually no losses, because the Armed Forces of Ukraine were then not combat-ready and the nationalists were just an organized gang. But our guarantor decided to wait 8 years for the Armed Forces of Ukraine to become a combat-ready and modern army, and for the nationalists to make their population nightmare and create a real Nazi state machine.

              The SVO started as if it was planned based on the realities of 2014, no one thought what would happen if the Armed Forces of Ukraine really fought. Therefore, they began to advance in divergent directions, dispersing the troops, although it was necessary to deliver concentrated strikes aimed at cutting off the entire Donbass grouping of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
              In addition, no one cared about the fact that the number of troops for such a scenario would not be enough and it was necessary to immediately announce the mobilization, which had to be prepared at least two or three years before.
              It was necessary to recreate the framed units of the reserve, equip them with officers, equipment, weapons, uniforms, conduct military training camps, driving through these units those liable for military service and form lists of those who successfully passed training camps for mobilization in this unit.
              Then, simultaneously with the beginning of the SVO, it would be possible to announce mobilization and within a month, in an organized manner, mobilize specific people in specific units in which they were trained and coordinated, and in an organized manner push them to the second line.

              None of this was done, in addition, open betrayal began in the form of gestures of goodwill, and the abandonment of the occupied territories. No conclusions have been drawn from the incompetent and often wrecking actions and inactions of senior officials, namely Chemezov, Shoigu, and Chief of the General Staff Gerasimov. These failed characters are still in place and will provide new failures.
              1. Nickelium
                Nickelium 29 October 2022 19: 37
                -3
                Kharkov was the most unsuccessful operation. There is destruction and disgrace. Somewhere near Kerch with the Vyazemsky boiler.
                1. ramzay21
                  ramzay21 29 October 2022 20: 47
                  +6
                  There is no need to draw parallels with the Second World War, then we alone fought against the entire united Europe, and held impressive and combat-ready forces against the Japanese army along the border with occupied China, which has never happened in our entire history. And none of our leaders except Stalin was able to win that war.
                  Our scarecrow can only be compared with Stalin's boots, and then in favor of the boots.
                  1. Nickelium
                    Nickelium 29 October 2022 21: 03
                    -3
                    And here are the parallels? You said that Finca is the most unsuccessful operation of the USSR. And I said that it was much sadder near Kharkov. And how does the presence of Stalin cancel the fact of terrible defeats near Kyiv, Vyazma, Kharkov, Kerch?
                    1. ramzay21
                      ramzay21 30 October 2022 01: 42
                      +1
                      War is always a series of mistakes and the best commander is the one who makes them less.
                      The Finnish war was the most unsuccessful war during Stalin's time, I am not talking about WWII operations, since there are no parallels with it in the current NWO. We are confronted by our people with different views and not all of Europe.

                      As for the Second World War, the battle near Kyiv allowed us to gain time, not to lose Moscow and evacuate enterprises. In addition, the results of the battle were too exaggerated by the Germans and our liberals, at the beginning of the battle we had about 600 thousand people near Kyiv, some of them died, some broke through to their own, and the only answer why our captured soldiers turned out to be 600 thousand was only that the Germans grabbed all the men and declared them prisoners of war.
                      Vyazma was a heavy defeat, but it was followed by the defeat of the Germans near Moscow, Kharkov was followed by Stalingrad, then Kursk with Orel, then the crossing of the Dnieper, Kyiv, the defeat in Belarus and Ukraine, Warsaw, the defeat of Guderian in Pomerania, the Vistula-Oder operation and finally Berlin
                      1. Nickelium
                        Nickelium 30 October 2022 02: 14
                        -3
                        Well, this war is where experience is the son of difficult mistakes. Who is to blame for the fact that for some reason we floundered on Kyiv? What for? On a city of 3 million with a couple of divisions. Why did the guys heroically capture Gostomel? And Izyum, Balakleya? Maybe we need to go through this difficult, bitter path to find ourselves?
                        After Kharkov there was Kerch, Voronezh, Rostov almost to Grozny, which is not very good. There was a senseless meat grinder near Rzhev. By the way, in the Kharkiv region, after the capture, the Germans successfully counterattacked several times. where cities changed hands. By the way, the Königsberg frontal assault cost us dearly. It's better to forget about Breslau. Certainly there were brilliant victories. But there were also operations that raised many questions.
              2. rocket757
                rocket757 29 October 2022 21: 29
                +1
                Everything was done right, the winners would be honored ... and now, long, hard, bloody.
              3. Anyuta Glorious
                Anyuta Glorious 2 November 2022 21: 09
                +2
                I totally agree. Everything is exactly like that. Only those who yell in three throats in defense of mediocrity are outraged. I also think that it was important in 2014 to solve the problem point-blank. Everything is so, for 8 years the Russian people were destroyed, the Russian language was on the outskirts, weapons were pumped from all over the world, fortified areas were rummaged, but the GDP did not see anything, did not know ??? Is that how it happens? I don't know, I don't understand ... Are they completely out of touch with reality in this Kremlin? So many towers, but no one has an understanding of the essence of reality? Or just don't care?
        2. Andrey Gladkikh
          Andrey Gladkikh 29 October 2022 10: 51
          +5
          Is this Stalin your "leader"?
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 29 October 2022 12: 52
            +2
            Stalin, in addition to being a historical FIGURE, LEADER, LEADER, is also just a person who made mistakes in his life!
            The reasons for those mistakes are a topic for a separate discussion, and quite a few books, texts have been written about the consequences, and quite a few are stored in the archives ...
            As we were taught, only those who do nothing do not make mistakes ... but the price of a mistake is different, depending on who makes them.
        3. lubesky
          lubesky 29 October 2022 17: 18
          0
          Quote: rocket757
          Unfortunately, something is happening again...
          There are commanders, warriors, and there are leaders / leaders who consider themselves the smartest.
          Alas and ah, the history of many has taught nothing

          Are you hinting at the cunning opportunist Nikita Sergeevich, ripening at the headquarters and the military? And after some time, as a ripened fruit of the betraying achievement of Victory?
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 29 October 2022 21: 26
            +1
            I'm not hinting, I'm stating ... but what and how to state, let everyone choose, decide for himself.
    2. credo
      credo 28 October 2022 17: 14
      +6
      Unfortunately for Russia, its leadership has constantly tried and is trying to create hothouse conditions for the newly annexed territories to the detriment of historical ones, and this constantly leads to tragic consequences.

      That Poland, with its irrepressible fantasy "from sea to sea", but at the expense of its eastern neighbors, including Russia, that Finland, with its post-revolutionary idea of ​​"Great Finland" to the Ural mountains, that Ukraine, with its irrepressible appetites for all the lands of the world , where immigrants from Little Russia settled, everything is one, and the result is the same - not a horse's fodder.

      Here, one thing must be fixed once in the policy of the country and forever - either we end the squandering of the country, the creation of enclaves in its body and begin real development, or we will be torn apart by overseas "friends" into hundreds of rags and hundreds of obedient vassals will be imprisoned there.
    3. Leontrotsky
      Leontrotsky 28 October 2022 17: 49
      +7
      Moreover, the USSR did not insist that Finland, as an ally of Hitler, be present in the Nuremberg dock. As you can see, it's completely wrong.
    4. Captain Pushkin
      Captain Pushkin 28 October 2022 22: 11
      +2
      Quote: Igor Borisov_2
      Striking resemblance

      Still the same errors:
      they wanted to defeat the Finns with the forces of one military district according to the plans once approved by Tukhachevsky.
      Things improved only after attracting a sufficient amount of forces and means, as well as choosing the right direction of impact.
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 29 October 2022 13: 30
        +4
        This is a story from the 80s .., at least two divisions that, according to the plan, were to be deployed against Finland, were deployed already on the territory of Ukraine. With the direction of the strike, everything was also correct, in the BYPASS of the Mannerheim line, the northern Lake Ladoga. Another thing is that they overslept the scale of mobilization in Finland and faced forces for which there was no calculation, and they had not yet managed to deploy their forces provided for in the war plan. The divisions that bypassed the line came under a counterattack, were cut off and pressed against Lake Ladoga until the end of the war. This was followed by an attempt to cut Finland in half and cut it off from Sweden, but for the same reasons it did not work out.
        1. Captain Pushkin
          Captain Pushkin 29 October 2022 14: 50
          +1
          Quote: Herman 4223
          It's a tale from the 80s.

          Well, yes, there were enough forces, they just had to be doubled later. And not only from Ukraine, but also from Siberia, troops were put forward. Yes, and mobilization was carried out, if they did not know.
          They advanced where they needed to, it was just that there was a forest there, but there were no roads, so division after division died ...
          And so, everything is as usual: intelligence is at zero, headquarters are about the same, the troops are not trained to conduct combat operations in the forest, and even in winter, etc. etc.
          Even somehow there is no desire to discuss.
          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 29 October 2022 15: 47
            +1
            According to the plan, it was supposed to deploy 22 rifle divisions and one tank corps based on tank brigades against Finland. In fact, only 12 divisions could go on the offensive from this, 5 of which operated on the Karelian Isthmus, the Finns on the Karelian Isthmus had 3 divisions that relied on a good line of fortifications. The lack of forces at the first stage allowed the Finns to carry out their offensive operation, and it turned out to be successful. This brought down the whole plan of warfare.
  2. The popuas
    The popuas 28 October 2022 16: 23
    +7
    Those "rakes" make it clear what is wrong with our army ... Before the Great Battle! soldier
    1. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 29 October 2022 14: 39
      +1
      You can study boxing or another martial art all your life, but until you enter the ring you will not know what you are really capable of. Only real practice allows you to make a real fighter out of you. Likewise with the army.
    2. Maki Avellevich
      Maki Avellevich 29 October 2022 15: 35
      +2
      Quote: Popuas
      Those "rakes" make it clear what is wrong with our army ... Before the Great Battle!

      and after the "Great Battle" it turns out that this is again the Great Rake.
  3. Luminman
    Luminman 28 October 2022 16: 26
    +4
    The most unpleasant thing in this matter is that the Finns are not just in tandem with the EU, like Hungary or Luxembourg, but are trying to run ahead of the locomotive, like Poland or the Baltic States ...
    1. Terenin
      Terenin 28 October 2022 16: 47
      +4
      Quote: Luminman
      the Finns are not just in tandem with the EU, like Hungary or Luxembourg, but are trying to run ahead of the locomotive, like Poland or the Baltic States ...

      They have heard enough of the Aristoviches and are in a hurry to divide the defeated Russia. winked
      And, after the "sharing", as always in history - "what was it?" belay
      1. Nickelium
        Nickelium 29 October 2022 19: 38
        -1
        Well, then they will be left without Bothnia and Lapland. And the Gulf of Finland will become inland.
  4. German
    German 28 October 2022 16: 30
    -5
    The author is a victim of enemy propaganda. Which taught us to think and treats the original Russian cities as an independent state.
    The next step: finding out who and how gave the independence of Kazan (just as an example!) Or when and why Novgorod should be freed from the occupation by Moscow.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 28 October 2022 16: 59
      +4
      Do you have any information when the French Republic will end its occupation of Dijon?
      And get out of the Duchy of Burgundy?
      1. Lukachevsky
        Lukachevsky 29 October 2022 14: 38
        0
        Freedom for Brittany and Gascony! Free Corsica! Freedom for Aquitaine! Freedom for Normandy!
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 28 October 2022 17: 14
      +2
      And when will the British get out of Ulster?
      Or give Gibraltar to the Spaniards?
      1. ANB
        ANB 29 October 2022 15: 23
        +2
        Wrong example.
        Correct - when dumped from Scotland and Wales.
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 29 October 2022 15: 45
          0
          Let them start with "small", and then "go into taste"!
  5. hohol95
    hohol95 28 October 2022 16: 42
    +3
    They did not mention the Finnish attempts to make war on the territory of the RSFSR!
  6. Novic2U
    Novic2U 28 October 2022 16: 55
    0
    It is written correctly, but it must be taken into account that the Northern War showed the strengths and weaknesses of the Red Army, the work of the rear, uniforms and supply systems, combat regulations, etc., and work began on restructuring, but there was not enough time. But the work done helped prepare for the war with Germany and eventually win.
    The actions of the dill warriors and administrations are similar to the actions of the Finns during the retreat from the Karelian Isthmus, the same methods (so don’t get to anyone who remains that enemy).
    1. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 28 October 2022 19: 52
      +4
      "The Northern War showed the strengths and weaknesses of the Red Army" - ??? The northern war was led by Peter l.
  7. Eug
    Eug 28 October 2022 16: 58
    +3
    Much more interesting is that not only the political and historical situation is practically repeated, but the course of hostilities itself ...
  8. place
    place 28 October 2022 16: 59
    +5
    To be more precise, after 3,5 months the war ended. And the Finns realized the hopelessness of the situation by the end of February. And no matter how they tried to crap the Red Army today, the war was won in difficult northern conditions with a very short daylight hours.
    But the main reason for the defeat of the Finns is not in endless talk about the losses of the Red Army, but in the presence of super-heavy guns and heavy bombers in the USSR.
    Any job requires a tool. Without a screwdriver, you can't unscrew a screw, and without large-caliber guns, you can't crack a fortified area. Moreover, it was built using modern technologies and taking into account the capabilities of modern RF Armed Forces.
    Here is today's result; There is nothing to break into the Avdeevsky fortified area.
    Six months of chatter about "we don't want big losses." Yes, even if they wanted to, they still wouldn’t have achieved a damn thing. This is only in propaganda ...... the nonsense of the enemy is "filled up with corpses."

    Here we need more powerful guns than the "Peonies" discontinued in 1990, and we need missiles with warheads larger than 400 kg. At least 1000 kg - like the German FAA. But, but .... they screwed everything up when they signed restrictive missile agreements and themselves abandoned the production of guns with a caliber of more than 203 mm.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 28 October 2022 17: 21
      -2
      Quote: ort
      But the main reason for the defeat of the Finns is not in endless talk about the losses of the Red Army, but in the presence of super-heavy guns and heavy bombers in the USSR ... ... Here is the result of today; There is nothing to break into the Avdeevsky fortified area. Six months of chatter about "we don't want big losses"[

      Which ones?! B-4 and DB-3? Don't write nonsense. Solntsepek has a caliber of 220 mm, and Tornado has a caliber of 300. Iskander 400 kg warhead. It’s just that the assault is going on with LIMITED forces (it’s not difficult to find out about the numerical superiority of the Armed Forces of Ukraine) and not just pillboxes, but a complex of extended covered trenches, almost tunnels, with many firing positions.
      1. Andrey A
        Andrey A 29 October 2022 14: 06
        +1
        It’s just that Russia, apparently, is in no hurry ... Our leaders have repeatedly stated that the supply of Western weapons only allows us to prolong the agony of the current Kyiv regime and lead to heavy losses for the Armed Forces of Ukraine ... we will equally carry out the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine .... And so we could burn everything with "sunflowers", no tactical nuclear weapons are needed ...
        1. AdAstra
          AdAstra 29 October 2022 21: 25
          +1
          Now, if only our soldiers and civilians were not killed with these weapons, but for "our" government this is apparently already something else ...
          1. Andrey A
            Andrey A 30 October 2022 18: 31
            -1
            Well, in war as in war, there is no war without losses ....
      2. aglet
        aglet 30 October 2022 19: 56
        0
        "and not just bunkers, but a complex of extended covered trenches, practically tunnels, with many firing positions."
        do they exist? What are the facts that support this statement? otherwise it will be, as in Azovsteel, underground fortified areas laughing
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 31 October 2022 03: 25
          -1
          Quote: aglet
          do they exist? What are the facts that support this statement? otherwise it will be, as in Azovsteel, underground fortified areas

          Khhihi, ahaha, then that about 2 thousand UAF soldiers and the Azov trash crawled out of there to surrender - nothing? Did they live in tents there, around fires with guitars?
          1. aglet
            aglet 31 October 2022 10: 02
            0
            "Azov trash crawled out of there to surrender - nothing?"
            giggle less - there were underground technological, if this word says something to you, channels. but there were no specially built fortifications, at least they were not found there after the surrender. but the question was, "a complex of extended covered trenches", are they in kind, or is someone still inventing something?
          2. aglet
            aglet 31 October 2022 10: 30
            0
            "Hhihi, ahaha, then that about 2 thousand AFU and Azov trash got out of there to surrender - nothing?"
            giggle less, there were technological, if this word tells you something, the channels, and the bomb shelters in which they lived, but were not specially constructed underground fortifications
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 31 October 2022 11: 10
              0
              Quote: aglet
              giggle less, there were technological, if this word tells you something, channels, and the bomb shelters in which they lived, but there were no specially built underground fortifications

              Be less clever, because the competent use of the terrain and buildings is the basics of military affairs, and digging a trench with a civilian excavator, blocking a civilian reinforced concrete slab and burying it with a civilian bulldozer is certainly not as cool LOOKS as burying a millionaire pillbox in the ground, but in fact it is much easier, faster and more efficient. But a dumbass like you will play up pillboxes-millionaires.
              1. aglet
                aglet 31 October 2022 19: 14
                0
                "But a dumbass like you will play on pillboxes with millions."
                and an idiot like you will claim that a groove covered with a PGS slab can withstand something more powerful than an explosion of an RGD, and call this squalor fortified areas
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 1 November 2022 05: 01
                  0
                  Quote: aglet
                  and an idiot like you will claim that a groove covered with a PGS slab can withstand something more powerful than an explosion of an RGD, and call this squalor fortified areas

                  Clearly, a shkolota who knows nothing about fortification or reinforced concrete products escaped to the Internet.
                  1. aglet
                    aglet 1 November 2022 09: 09
                    0
                    "shkolota who knows nothing about fortification or reinforced concrete products"
                    And your last name is Karbyshev?
                    1. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U 1 November 2022 09: 18
                      0
                      Quote: aglet
                      "shkolota who knows nothing about fortification or reinforced concrete products"
                      And your last name is Karbyshev?

                      No, dear, it’s not Axel, it’s not Bant, it’s not Karbyshev, but the concept that a hand grenade can’t do anything even on a hollow reinforced slab without sprinkling, I know. And the fact that the bunker is a point, and the trench is an extended target is clear to me. But you don't.
                      1. aglet
                        aglet 1 November 2022 14: 40
                        0
                        "No, dear, not Axel, not Bant, not Karbyshev, but the concept that a hand grenade is even hollow"
                        You are too smart, in my opinion. Can you remember what it was all about? I can remind you whether there are those grandiose fortifications in nature that everyone is shouting about? you said there is. data? and another moment - have you ever been in a simple machine-gun pillbox?
                      2. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 1 November 2022 15: 46
                        0
                        Quote: aglet
                        You are too smart, in my opinion. Can you remember what it was all about?

                        On your background? Certainly smart.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        It’s just that the assault is going on with LIMITED forces (it’s not difficult to find out about the numerical superiority of the Armed Forces of Ukraine) and not just pillboxes, but a complex of extended covered trenches, almost tunnels, with many firing positions.




                        Quote: aglet
                        I can remind you whether there are those grandiose fortifications in nature that everyone is shouting about?
                        If you consider trenches covered with concrete slabs to be grandiose structures, then they exist.
                        Quote: aglet
                        and another moment - have you ever been in a simple machine-gun pillbox?
                        Are you not getting out of there?
                      3. aglet
                        aglet 1 November 2022 15: 56
                        0
                        "If you consider trenches covered with concrete slabs to be grandiose structures, then they exist."
                        you think they are like that, but I call them ditches covered with PGS
                      4. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 1 November 2022 16: 45
                        0
                        Quote: aglet
                        you think they are like that, but I call them ditches covered with PGS
                        Well, it’s understandable, you’re a complete zero in fortification. For ASG is a sand and gravel mixture, how can you block even a ditch with a mixture, even a trench, only you know.
                      5. aglet
                        aglet 1 November 2022 19: 37
                        0
                        "For ASG is a sand and gravel mixture,"
                        maybe I don't argue. but PGS slabs are industrial civil engineering, just the ones that you call hollow
                      6. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 2 November 2022 03: 53
                        0
                        Quote: aglet
                        this is industrial civil construction, just those that you call empty

                        I gave an example of the most common and well-known plates for residential construction, and if we take industrial construction, there are also much more durable finished products.
                        Am I making it clear?
                      7. aglet
                        aglet 1 November 2022 16: 00
                        0
                        "You won't get out of there?"
                        no, why? I just know what it is, and what they can be compared with, those fragile structures, made of shit and plastic film, which the so-called war correspondents show, and did not even stand next to a machine-gun pillbox
                      8. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 1 November 2022 16: 50
                        0
                        Quote: aglet
                        and with what they can be compared, those fragile structures, from shit and plastic wrap,

                        Type of such?

                        If this is shit and film, then what's going on in your poor head is scary to think about.
                      9. aglet
                        aglet 1 November 2022 19: 30
                        0
                        "If this is shit and tape, then what's in your poor head"
                        this is a simple machine-gun pillbox, for three three-inch shells. it's not a maginot line
                        this is a simple fortification, elementary simple. and you don't have to think about my head, better think about what's going on in yours
                      10. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 2 November 2022 03: 47
                        0
                        Quote: aglet
                        this is a simple machine-gun pillbox, for three three-inch shells. it's not a maginot line

                        Ah, no longer shit and sticks? And when when there are dozens of them, and they are connected by blocked communications, is it a system of fortifications or a set of brushwood? And for you to know, l. Mannerheim mainly consisted of such pillboxes, or even simpler, they were just in the system and did not fire directly, but obliquely.

                        Quote: aglet
                        this is a simple fortification, elementary simple.
                        In general, I wrote about firing positions, and not about pillboxes, rummaging around in my head.
                      11. aglet
                        aglet 3 November 2022 09: 12
                        0
                        "Ah, not shit and sticks anymore? And when there are dozens of them, and they are connected by blocked communication passages, is this a system of fortifications or a set of brushwood?"
                        you can't make an elephant out of a pack of lapdogs. dozens of these concrete sheds for 5-6 people will remain simple machine-gun pillboxes, which can be broken with three shells, unless, of course, you hit
                      12. aglet
                        aglet 3 November 2022 09: 14
                        0
                        "I generally wrote about firing positions, and not about pillboxes, dig in my head"
                        and about pillboxes too, I don’t suggest rummaging through your head - you’ll get lost
    2. Leontrotsky
      Leontrotsky 28 October 2022 17: 52
      +5
      Well, not all. The X-22 will just have 1000 kg. You only need to use Tu 22m3 or Tu 95
      1. aglet
        aglet 30 October 2022 20: 00
        0
        "Tu 22m3 to use or Tu 95"
        no planes, they will shoot down. you need from cannons, there are a lot of projectile areas, why feel sorry for them
        1. Leontrotsky
          Leontrotsky 31 October 2022 13: 40
          0
          They won't hit. From your territory, you can launch the X-22, they will get to the bridges across the Dnieper, and even to Kuev too
    3. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 29 October 2022 15: 19
      +1
      Do you think that now there are few FAB 250/500 in warehouses? If they want, with the help of them they will plow the corridor where necessary and quickly. True, there all living things will cease to exist on a large area, and this is not only the military.
  9. rocket757
    rocket757 28 October 2022 16: 59
    +6
    "Historical rake": For Russia, Ukraine today is the second Finland of the early 1940s
    . So it’s a rake, but there are nuances .. i.e. similar and not similar at the same time.
  10. Gardamir
    Gardamir 28 October 2022 17: 03
    +9
    Strongly disagree. Finland, even entering the Russian Empire, was on its own. There has never been such a country as Ukraine.
    At first, Stalin tried to make a deal with Finland to move the border, and only then did the fighting begin. Why Putin started. no one knows, not even himself.
    1. bairat
      bairat 28 October 2022 18: 51
      -4
      Why Putin started. No one knows

      who is "nobody"? are you talking about yourself?
      1. Andrey Gladkikh
        Andrey Gladkikh 29 October 2022 11: 18
        -1
        Those who think and are interested in the situation absolutely understand "why Putin started." And the allegations that Putin himself does not know why he started are at least stupid, because. in this case, the person who wrote this, as it were, claims that he is able to penetrate Putin’s thoughts, and by and large they are liberal propaganda, that there were no grounds for starting this operation (war) and it is not fair.
    2. Scientist
      Scientist 28 October 2022 20: 57
      -1
      There was no country like Finland either. Never. Until RI created it.
  11. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 28 October 2022 17: 08
    +2
    Well, the story is something like this, but only the author scraped out all the nuances that did not suit him.
    As in the case of the Finns, as in the case of the Ukrainians as such, the "enmity" began at the moment when we began to support the legal language in terms of "proxy". In the case of the Finns, these were the "Red Finns", and these funny guys had their own civil war, read it for anyone interested. In the case of Ukraine, it was support for the "Russian Spring", a phenomenon that is interpreted more than unambiguously from an international legal point of view. Within similar conditions, when foreign agents of influence and "co-religionists" floated in troubled waters in the North Caucasus in the 90s, our own attitude to the issue was more than different from today's, but, as it is fashionable today to say "this is different (c) ".
    You see, no one, not a single sovereign state likes EXTREMELY when the furry paw of another state crawls into its affairs, climbs deep and intrusive, especially if something muddy like civil unrest or civil wars occurs. This, so to speak, spoils the relationship for a long time.

    However, I am not at all pointing out that the Finns after gaining independence were white and fluffy. They had a stigma in the cannon, the soldier who does not dream of becoming a general is bad, and the state is bad, which does not dream of squeezing something from its neighbors on the sly. This is the law of life and "real politics". As for
    Repeated attempts by the USSR to resolve the issue through negotiations were unsuccessful. Finland rejected any, even extremely beneficial for her, proposals

    A deal is a deal, that you have something and you are free to sell it or not to sell it. For example, you have a porcelain elephant that is dear to you as a memory - and your neighbor collects them. And he comes to you over and over again and fills the price - you tell him "not for sale", but he does not hear it. Because HE NEEDED. Take it out and put it, it doesn’t matter that you don’t want to sell it, in general your vision DOES NOT soar it. For example, the Japanese would have come to us now and offered us to "buy a third of Sakhalin." They would have paid off a lot of money and would have been extremely persistent - would we have already sold it?) Even if it were very profitable. No I do not think so.

    And here we have an oil painting - a small country that gained independence not so long ago and went through its civil war, and a big country that until recently (before that) was yelling from all the cracks how it would arrange a crusade against the bourgeois outside, and let them all in for a little The question is who should be afraid of whom? Noo, in our traditional historiography, this issue is carefully bypassed, as is the comparison of the population of pre-war Finland and the pre-war USSR. Oh, what a horror nightmare, they are twisting and muddying something with the Germans .. wait a minute, aren't we also twisting at the same time with the Germans?
    Isn't our grain rolling towards them, isn't it their machines going to us? Are we not dividing Poland with the Germans, are we not negotiating with them in 1940 on the terms of joining the "Berlin Pact"? The realities of that era show that they rubbed everything with the Germans, so when turning the arrows to the fact that the Finns rubbed with the Germans, it is worth remembering that the Finns also saw how we rubbed with the Germans. And this was more than the German-Finnish relations put together.

    What am I leading to? What you sow is what you reap - we preferred to solve the security issue by force, "foolishly", and got an openly hostile Finland unambiguously on the side of the enemy bloc. Would Finland be directly hostile to us without this? I don’t think. Because Sweden was not directly hostile. The Finns, with their 3.5 million population, would probably adhere to the same "rotten neutral", especially since the "allied" lobby before all these events in Finland was stronger than the German one. But we preferred what we preferred - and got both the front and the enemy and hemorrhoids, and we merged all the territories that we "squeezed out for safety" just as cheerfully.
    Question - did it work? Helped? Not. And it created problems.
    1. Xnumx vis
      Xnumx vis 28 October 2022 17: 33
      +3
      Helped. The borders were moved away from Leningrad,. before the Great Patriotic War. This is the main thing. A porcelain elephant .. and other rubbish for people who do not understand the real reasons. October 31, speaking at the VI session of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, V.M. Molotov stated that "Finland, and above all the Karelian Isthmus, had already by 1939 been turned into a ready military base for third powers to attack the Soviet Union, to attack Leningrad."
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 28 October 2022 17: 55
        0
        Holy saints! See military maps - where the Finns stood in 1942 - they wanted to sneeze at these border shifts of yours, dear! It was an empty case, only lives were laid. Don't believe me - okay, but study the sources.
    2. Scientist
      Scientist 28 October 2022 17: 52
      +2
      And, excuse me, "Russian spring" began when? Not after "moskalyaku to gilyaku" and "friendship trains"? No need to overdo it.
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 28 October 2022 18: 01
        +1
        Boots, eggs and parrots mixed up in one heap .. Let's just pick up a couple of hundred scumbags right now, give them water and shoot what they will yell after that about what they think about our neighboring countries. And then we will look at it as a kind of "guide to action" - right now, in a blue eye, you are proposing to take such things seriously)) To the opinion of any size of the crowd or point sample. If that's not stupid, I don't know what is. Naivety?
        When we had interethnic clashes in our country (and they were, and more than once, and very epic) - I don’t remember that they came to us "from behind the hill" to protect not even co-religionists or compatriots, but "knowing the language". But according to your logic, this is quite acceptable - so decide, do people have such a right to do this? :) Or is it our EXCLUSIVE right.
        1. Scientist
          Scientist 28 October 2022 18: 04
          +1
          You're overthinking again. "Russian Spring" was born in Ukraine, among Ukrainians who did not want to become traitors to their ancestors.
          1. ZAV69
            ZAV69 29 October 2022 00: 12
            +2
            Add also that the Russian spring began in the Russian regions, which V.I. Lenin for some kind of horseradish slaughtered the Ukrainian SSR in 18.
        2. Scientist
          Scientist 28 October 2022 18: 10
          0
          And if the state does not want to stop these scumbags (by the way, the question is who organized them), then we have the right. And it was not so much about Russian citizens, but about their own Russians. And protection from genocide is spelled out in all international laws.
          1. Knell wardenheart
            Knell wardenheart 28 October 2022 18: 15
            +1
            On what scale does "murder" become "genocide"? So after all, you can, for example, fill up a couple of Chinese somewhere in the Far East and there will be a great reason for the PRC to send troops. Well, according to your logic. Show me where there is a certain border that gives the right to one state to interfere in the affairs of its neighbors, when there is a mess.
            After all, if “logically”, in our own history we angrily rustle our mustaches when the interventionists rushed to us in the Civil War - that is, we don’t like something like that. And the fact that many of them (Japanese) came to us precisely under the above pretext, we were very embarrassed in that situation))
            That is, we again looms not the right but the right of force.
            1. Scientist
              Scientist 28 October 2022 19: 01
              +2
              And when and who from the Soviet authorities called for the hanging of the Japanese? Proofs. Hang Americans or British? By the way, how many pieces of Americans lived in Soviet Russia to provoke the entry of troops?
            2. Scientist
              Scientist 28 October 2022 19: 44
              +1
              At one time, the United States had enough of 20 or 30 Americans to capture Grenada. Moreover, NONE of them were killed, and no one said how many of them were "oppressed".
              And the States are the ideal and beacon of democracy, which they demand to be equal to. Something like this.
      2. ZuekRek
        ZuekRek 29 October 2022 11: 46
        -2
        And when did the "trains of friendship" and the national battalions begin? Not after the Crimea? When you say A, say B.
        1. Scientist
          Scientist 30 October 2022 18: 37
          +1
          “In turn, as a Ukrainian nationalist, I will say this. Any attempts to break the territorial integrity of Ukraine will be severely punished. If the authorities are not capable of this, then the “Right Sector”* will form a “train of friendship”. We, as in the 91st UNSO, will go to the Crimea. Then an audience like this, like rats, ran away when the Unsov column entered Sevastopol ... ”, Mosiychuk said then. This, for your information, is February 24, 2014. And the decision to conduct a referendum on February 27 and the date of May 25 has been set. It was these statements that led to the postponement of the referendum to March 16. And the first "friendship train" to the Crimea was March 1, 1992.
          Crimea suffered for a very long time.
    3. Scientist
      Scientist 28 October 2022 17: 55
      0
      And when did we talk about joining the "Berlin Pact"? Puffs, please. Otherwise it smells like CC.
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 28 October 2022 18: 04
        0
        Oooh, what a scary little schoolboy you are)) Apparently they haven’t reached this point in the program yet? :)
        Читай и не благодари : https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82_(1940)
        It was not just some kind of paperwork - the Minister of Foreign Affairs was officially engaged. That is, participation in negotiations is a fact. I'm not saying it's good or bad - I don't really care, I'm pointing out that such negotiations between us and the Germans, Finns and Germans, British and Germans, etc. were widespread at that time, and cling to what there were diplomatic contacts between the Germans and the Finns, this is ridiculous in that era.
        1. Scientist
          Scientist 28 October 2022 18: 18
          +3
          I read it, and now you read not only the title.
          "Both the response of the Soviet leadership and the progress of the negotiations in Berlin meant that the Soviet Union REFUSED to accept Germany's OFFERS." The fact of negotiations does not mean agreement. You would be a cheater, there would be no price.
          1. Knell wardenheart
            Knell wardenheart 28 October 2022 18: 33
            0
            And I point you to this - the fact of negotiations does not mean an agreement)) The author of the article points to the fact of negotiations between the Germans and the Finns as a kind of final point - they say, "once we talked, it means we agreed." But you yourself tell me that no, it's not like that.
            The Finns did not agree on a direct alliance with the Reich by 1940? No. So the mention of these negotiations does not make sense, and this is worthless as a casus beli.
            1. Scientist
              Scientist 28 October 2022 19: 05
              +1
              From the beloved Wiki: "the parties [meaning Germany] exchanged military information about the USSR (in particular, about the Leningrad Military District, the Baltic Fleet) [1]. Even before the start of World War II, the exchange of intelligence information about the USSR and the armed forces of the USSR between Finland and The Third Reich had a regular character[2]
              Declassified archival documents of the Finnish special services confirm that only in the period from 1918 to 1939, 326 people were sent to the USSR on the instructions of the Finnish special services.
              Is this not cooperation?
    4. Scientist
      Scientist 28 October 2022 18: 00
      +2
      And when, during civil unrest, "shaggy paw" in the form of official (!) Representatives of the US and the EU walk along the Maidan? Is it different?
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 28 October 2022 18: 07
        -2
        This is what is called a "sovereign state", cap) Anyone who wants to comes, walks where he wants)
        it's amazing what's wrong in your parallel reality Oo
        1. Andrey Gladkikh
          Andrey Gladkikh 29 October 2022 11: 31
          +2
          Walking along the Maidan is a trifle (let them walk wherever they want, even along the Maidan, even along Bandera Avenue). And that a representative of another state sits at the head of the table and leads a government meeting - is this also a "sovereign state"? And that the whole floor in the security service of the state is occupied by the intelligence of another state - is it also a "sovereign state"?
    5. Scientist
      Scientist 28 October 2022 18: 01
      +4
      The issue of security is ALWAYS and EVERYTHING is solved by force, if it did not work out peacefully.
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 28 October 2022 18: 08
        -1
        Well, in fact - we did not solve the "security issue" then) We aggravated it) The Finns were neutrals - they became part of the "Axis" with all the consequences. We have lost the occupied territories.
        When the situation is aggravated due to actions, one cannot talk about the rationality of actions.
        1. Kronos
          Kronos 28 October 2022 19: 34
          +1
          In fact, they were a secret ally of the Nazis, these territories saved Leningrad from destruction in the war.
    6. Senior seaman
      Senior seaman 28 October 2022 20: 37
      +3
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      Would Finland be directly hostile to us without this?

      Without a doubt.
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      Finns with their 3.5 million population

      And before that, they were the initiators of two armed conflicts with Soviet Russia. (1918-1920 and 1921-22). There is no reason to believe that they would not have joined Hitler's campaign.
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      was not directly hostile to Sweden.

      And what does it have to do with it?
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      The "allied" lobby before all these events in Finland was stronger than the German one.

      Controversial statement. As it were, it was the Germans who helped the Finns cope with their Reds, but not the Entente.
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      all the territories that we "squeezed out for safety" we leaked

      Well, the Finns would have launched an offensive from the old border ... request
    7. Andrey Nikolaev_4
      Andrey Nikolaev_4 29 October 2022 13: 37
      +3
      Somehow you are very difficult to pull an owl on a globe - what kind of "red Finns"? Read for yourself how the first Soviet-Finnish war (1918-1920) began. If you’re too lazy, I can tell you: from the Finns’ claims to East Karelia and the Kola Peninsula. The Finns started this war and chopped off part of the territory of Russia. And ask who started the second the Soviet-Finnish war (1922) - again, the Finns. Invent some kind of alternative history.
    8. German
      German 29 October 2022 14: 41
      +2
      "Would Finland be directly hostile to us without this?"
      Finland was hostile to us even before that. Bellofins - read what they did in civilian life. Enough already to consider issues separately without background! The issue with Finland was decided precisely as with a hostile country.
  12. place
    place 28 October 2022 17: 33
    +2
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Quote: ort
    But the main reason for the defeat of the Finns is not in endless talk about the losses of the Red Army, but in the presence of super-heavy guns and heavy bombers in the USSR ... ... Here is the result of today; There is nothing to break into the Avdeevsky fortified area. Six months of chatter about "we don't want big losses"[

    Which ones?! B-4 and DB-3? Don't write nonsense. Solntsepek has a caliber of 220 mm, and Tornado has a caliber of 300. Iskander 400 kg warhead. It’s just that the assault is going on with LIMITED forces (it’s not difficult to find out about the numerical superiority of the Armed Forces of Ukraine) and not just pillboxes, but a complex of extended covered trenches, almost tunnels, with many firing positions.


    Do not write nonsense .... In .. in .. "a lot of positions" ... look, think! So you need to have enough funds to destroy the "set".
    There are a lot of things at the parades .... How many ".Iskanders" were produced from 2007 to 2020? less than 200 pcs. And how much is needed to solve today's problems? So what if 400 kg... what of it? And what warhead is really needed today? The result speaks for itself; from April to October, nothing could be done with the Avdevsky fortified area ... ... Where is the result? there is no result, well, bring them down .... in the forest. And about "limited forces" .... tell us in kindergarten.

    But back in the years of WWII, the Germans only from 1943 managed to produce more than 4 thousand FAA launches .... this is the characteristic amount needed in serious matters.
    1. Scientist
      Scientist 28 October 2022 17: 49
      0
      Now tell me how many of those Fau flew to England and, most importantly, hit the target.
  13. SpbGenn
    SpbGenn 28 October 2022 17: 51
    -4
    Finland from 1940 to the present has been the most Russophobic country. Friendship with the USSR was a cunning deception to calmly wait for the right moment for revenge. For Finns, any latest Papuan savage is better than any Russian. GDP, among other things, fell for their "friendly bait".
  14. place
    place 28 October 2022 17: 59
    +3
    Quote: U. Cheny
    Now tell me how many of those Fau flew to England and, most importantly, hit the target.

    You first re-read and realize what I wrote about, and you will practice wit later .... Find out for yourself if there is nothing more to do. I'm talking about what kind of means are required in terms of scale ... Not a hundred missiles and not two hundred. The Americans fought the war in Iraq with "limited forces" - an army of 500 thousand, it seems? And two months ...... how-nothing? The USSR waged war in Finland also with "limited forces". Because they calculated that with such forces, without any mobilizations, in six months, you can finish. In the foreseeable future. And when will the current company be completed? Nobody knows.. And how will it end? No one knows ... Here are the questions to ask ..
    1. Scientist
      Scientist 28 October 2022 18: 21
      0
      I asked a very specific question and did not hear an answer to it. Except blah blah blah.
  15. agoran
    agoran 28 October 2022 18: 55
    +3
    I read the memoirs of a member of the Finnish company, at that time the commander of the regiment.
    The memoirs were not widely available, how they got to me is a separate topic, I’ll tell anyone who is interested.
    So, after the completion of the Finnish company, there was a meeting of the commanders of the LenVO regiments. There are the usual performances, such as under the leadership of the Communist Party and the government, our fighters showing stamina and courage, prolonged applause.
    The regiment commander spoke, who wrote his memoirs and said that a Budyonnovka-type headdress and boots with windings, as well as thin overcoats, and not fur clothes, in 30 frosts lead to greater losses than from enemy fire.
    You must understand what time it was. The regiment commander returned to his place in the hall, the neighbor told him, everything is kirdyk to you.
    However, after a while he was appointed to a command position in the division.
    What he said, to the fact that any military action leads to the manifestation of both weak and strong sides, well, work on mistakes.
  16. Kronos
    Kronos 28 October 2022 19: 32
    -3
    But with Finland they closed the issue in 3 months and a half, and then the conflict for years.
    1. Oorfene Juice and his wooden soldiers
      Oorfene Juice and his wooden soldiers 28 October 2022 19: 35
      -1
      Yes, they got off lightly there, here, it seems, it looks more like the Crimean war.
  17. Oorfene Juice and his wooden soldiers
    Oorfene Juice and his wooden soldiers 28 October 2022 19: 34
    0
    For Russia, Ukraine today is the second Finland of the early 1940s

    Or Turkey 1853-1856.
  18. Spasatel
    Spasatel 28 October 2022 20: 28
    -4
    As Zhvanetsky said, "you can enter into history, or you can get into trouble."
    Putin is in trouble!
    And no excuses will now remove from him the stigma of the aggressor. Only the Russian people will be responsible for his sins, for many years after the death of this bald-headed underage.
    1. ZAV69
      ZAV69 29 October 2022 00: 33
      -1
      On this site it is fashionable to say that Putin has got himself into trouble. Fashionable. Everyone present approves.
      1. Andrey Gladkikh
        Andrey Gladkikh 29 October 2022 11: 41
        -2
        There is a minority on the site of Russian patriots. There are already a lot of cosmopolitan liberals who are dissatisfied with everything, allegedly caring for the interests of Russia and therefore cutting the “truth-womb”. But in fact sowing confusion during the war.
    2. Skif
      Skif 31 October 2022 20: 44
      0
      Well, this is purely yours, Ukropov's opinion. You still do not accept others, which means there is nothing to discuss with you.
  19. gromit
    gromit 29 October 2022 11: 56
    +1
    It's just outwardly the same rake.
    Full of wars, where the enemy was considered obviously weaker but presented unpleasant surprises.

    We are witnessing a unique situation, the first in history, when a large-scale war is waged by two states that are in a deep demographic crisis (average age is 40)
    I am very sorry that my country got into this and I feel sorry for Ukraine, where I have many relatives.
    But I confess, from the point of view of abstract observation - this is a delight.
    It will be interesting to observe the public mood when the bill goes to hundreds of thousands.
  20. iouris
    iouris 29 October 2022 12: 03
    -1
    Stop writing and publishing defeatist materials.
    The USSR stepped on a rake and put the existence of Russia and other republics into question. But there is still one last chance.
    Ukraine must cease its formal existence, since its existence is possible only in the form of an alternative Russia. Alternative Russia is a dead Russia.
    Finland in 1940 is Finland today. This problem must be solved by throwing NATO back in 1991.
  21. Andrey Nikolaev_4
    Andrey Nikolaev_4 29 October 2022 12: 32
    0
    "From that moment on, both" independent "states took a course towards moving away from Russia, and then completely turned into its enemies." - Finland did it right away, declaring war on Russia in May 1918; then, in 1922, it was still one invasion, already "unofficial"
  22. Alexy
    Alexy 29 October 2022 14: 18
    0
    If we are to draw analogues, it is that then there was a world war.
    Did the 5 millionth Finland have any chances against the 250 million population of the USSR? Nevertheless, the Finns lost 20 thousand in the war, we drowned 120 thousand in our blood. Now, excuse me, 140 million against 40 million with the support of the leading countries of the world.
    There is a common thing for almost every of our "operations" - hatred. From someone there will be a demand for planning SVO? Starting with intelligence on the state of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the absence of UAVs and other modern types of weapons and the absence of a mobilization reserve.
    1. Nickelium
      Nickelium 29 October 2022 19: 43
      0
      Haven't been there for 40 years. God forbid 25 will be. And that is unlikely.
    2. iouris
      iouris 29 October 2022 21: 54
      +2
      Quote from Alex
      Did the 5 millionth Finland have any chances against the 250 million population of the USSR?

      WWII began on 07-07-37 with Japan's aggression against China. Everything was already clear.
      Behind "little Finland" stood the entire collective West. The French and British were preparing to bomb Baku. The Swedes sent "volunteers", the Germans and Americans - weapons and equipment. If Stalin had not resolved the issue, then there would have been no "second front", and it is not known how the war would have gone for the USSR.
  23. Scientist_
    Scientist_ 29 October 2022 14: 32
    +1
    Only Finland was defeated in three months, and here we are retreating in eight months. This non-war is more like the Russo-Japanese War. The initial balance of power was in favor of Russia (threefold superiority). But specifically in the Far East, there were fewer troops than the Japanese. Troops began to be sent there, but not the experienced military that were, but hastily put together troops from the mobilized. Now it's the same thing - in the presence of several million security officials, they row anyone there on mobilization. The result will be the same.
    1. Nickelium
      Nickelium 29 October 2022 19: 45
      -1
      Absolutely unlike. The Japanese at least fought themselves, and not with mercenaries. That is why they have been so successful. The Japanese had Togo, and the Sumerians had an elderly grandfather. More like a Russian-Swedish war.
  24. Scientist_
    Scientist_ 29 October 2022 14: 34
    +1
    Quote: Andrey Gladkikh
    But in fact sowing confusion during the war.

    So we don't have a war.
  25. Scientist_
    Scientist_ 29 October 2022 14: 40
    0
    Quote: ort
    And when will the current company be completed? Nobody knows..

    The easiest answer to this question is never. The current ruling class is not capable of victory, and will not leave voluntarily.
  26. certero
    certero 29 October 2022 15: 32
    +1
    during the Soviet Finnish war, the West was busy with its showdowns, so Finland could not provide assistance.
    In addition, the command of the Soviet Union did not want snot for six months, and literally a month later they pulled up the necessary outfit of forces to defeat the enemy. So that's where it all ended the way it ended.
    Russia cannot do anything like this now.
    1. Skif
      Skif 31 October 2022 20: 39
      -2
      The West did not provide assistance to the Finns?! Are you serious? British Beauforts, German bf.109, pak.38, French howitzers, etc. etc. How is that? Maybe dill is not given anything today?
  27. Scientist_
    Scientist_ 29 October 2022 20: 22
    +3
    Quote: Knell Wardenheart
    Finns were neutrals

    The Finns were not neutrals. Initially, this regime was brought to Helsinki in the convoy of the Kaiser's army and was a puppet of the Germans. When the Germans were blown away, changed their owners, fell under the Entente. When things went badly for the Anglo-Saxons and France defected to the Germans (in the summer of 1940), the Finns again fell under the Germans. During the civil war, they attacked Russia twice and gnawed off a little more than the tsars gave them. But this was not enough for them, they dreamed of Great Finland to the Urals or beyond. They were always ready to join any coalition against Russia, even with the Germans, even with the Anglo-Saxons. Therefore, it is not surprising that Stalin decided to move the border away from such a restless neighbor.
  28. AdAstra
    AdAstra 29 October 2022 21: 48
    +2
    We are too kind, and therefore I fundamentally disagree with the words of Comrade Stalin "the Hitlers come and go ...", since it is this kindness that for some reason gives rise to Russophobia. I think, being under the heel of the Swedes, the Finns were not Swedephobes, much like, I believe, now the Japanese are not Americanophobes, because they knew for sure that the Swedes would not 100% appreciate even a hint of Swedephobia and would comb them with an "iron comb" so that several generations would remember . But as soon as the tsar-priest took them for himself and gave them such a wide autonomy that they could not even dream of, without periodically "stroking" the wrong way, then Russophobia and all the pride of the "oppressed" people immediately began to appear.
  29. Scientist_
    Scientist_ 30 October 2022 00: 22
    +2
    Quote: Nickelium
    Absolutely unlike. The Japanese at least fought themselves, and not with mercenaries.

    Very similar. The Japanese were pumped by our Western "partners". In the same way, they were pumped up with weapons, just like the Banderites are now.
  30. zombirusrev
    zombirusrev 30 October 2022 19: 43
    -1
    Nothing in common. If, on the advice of Mannerheim, President Svinhvud (Pig's snout) had agreed, then the Finns would have received compensation for our requests ... otherwise we had no choice .. At the same time, the Red Army achieved the tasks set, combat experience was gained. The essence of Finca's Nazi regime is revealed. At the same time, even the French, who were going to bomb the Baku oil fields with the Britons, helped them then all the Nata of that time .. but it didn’t happen, we quickly wrapped dates on gooses ..
  31. Deis
    Deis 31 October 2022 14: 52
    +1
    The war with Finland is very different from the NWO. What about weapons, what about the balance of power. There is no desire to spread the article and argue / challenge each paragraph. I don't see the point.
    author, you would at least correlate the boundaries of the conflict with the background! In Finland, a sample of the 30s, Russians were not sent to concentration camps for being Russian, they didn’t etch the Russian language, they didn’t sell their children for organs, they didn’t hunt the militias like animals, they didn’t snoop around Leningrad just like that, etc.
    The article was supposed to be provocative, but it turned out more for the hype.
    Moderator / admin, have you already begun to let such "analogies" into the site?
  32. place
    place 31 October 2022 15: 14
    +1
    Quote from AdAstra
    We are too kind, and therefore I fundamentally disagree with the words of Comrade Stalin "the Hitlers come and go ...", since it is this kindness that for some reason gives rise to Russophobia. .

    How is it ...... The troubles of the people from his kindness, from "...isms" are not correct, in general "from the fact that in the conservatory" something is wrong. And from the thieves who let the country downwind, from the traitors - the people have no troubles! BABY!!! And so on.. True, I guess that from "the first of the two troubles of Russia" all other troubles are even greater than from thieves ....
  33. Tank destroyerSU-100
    Tank destroyerSU-100 31 October 2022 18: 33
    0
    While the mighty USSR was, dates did not rock the boat, but today's Russian Federation is a pale shadow of the USSR, only a legacy of nuclear missile weapons did not allow the country to be torn apart by direct intervention. So the dates decided that the time had come to cling to the strongest.
  34. Skif
    Skif 31 October 2022 20: 33
    0
    Alas! No matter how scary it sounds, but "friends", apparently, should be approached with a whip and a club. This is successfully proven by historical examples. the Baltics and the Germans; the latter did not consider this brethren even for people. Romanians and Moldovans. Hungarians and Hutsuls. Maybe these are coincidences?
  35. certero
    certero 31 October 2022 22: 25
    -1
    Quote: Skif
    The West did not provide assistance to the Finns?! Are you serious? British Beauforts, German bf.109, pak.38, French howitzers, etc. etc. How is that? Maybe dill is not given anything today?

    Comparing an ass to a finger. The difference is cardinal in the level of assistance. Remove Western aid to the Finns - practically nothing would have changed in that war. Remove aid to Ukraine and the war would have ended.
  36. Gas smoke protector
    Gas smoke protector 1 November 2022 12: 31
    -2
    The author drew a good parallel. We all know how the Finnish war went and how it ended. Now we have an idea of ​​what to expect from the NWO. Although ... in principle, it was already clear.
  37. Altmann
    Altmann 1 November 2022 19: 39
    0
    The problem will probably be the interpretation of the border. That is, Tsar Nicholas II. The Curzon Line, the line established by agreement after the lost Polish-Russian war of 1921. If everything was interpreted legally, a madman could not voluntarily give someone a piece of Russia called Crimea. Do not be angry, gentlemen, but it would be good to say that this is our border since 1914, and we will defend it. Or I'm wrong? am
  38. AC130 Gunship
    AC130 Gunship 3 November 2022 00: 15
    0
    Does the author have historical documents (originals) in his hands showing who started the shelling in 1939? It would be interesting to see....
  39. Igorash
    Igorash 10 November 2022 15: 02
    -1
    It is also true that those Finland and present-day Ukraine were created by the same scum ... from Russia .. but far from Russians, but proteges of the Anglo-Saxons .... They quickly forgot who recommended studying with England and sending their children there to study ... They remembered .. that's right, Putin ... And who made the coup in February 1917? The same adherents of the Anglo-Saxons ... Nothing has changed except one. Having done the right thing, the West did not need them ... So they twitched ... Abez Ukraine Russia will not exist. It will dissolve in the least qualitative genetic environment and its main quality, patience and self-sacrifice, will disappear ...