Shahed 136: Characteristics of the Iranian kamikaze drone and its differences from the Russian "Gerani-2"

The Iranian "kamikaze drone" Shahed 136, which is "credited" with the destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure, which has already become a reason for condemnation and sanctions pressure on Tehran, was introduced in 2020.

The device has a number of advantages that allow it to effectively perform the task. The main one is the power plant.

The Iranian-made two-stroke 50-horsepower engine is, in fact, a copy of the German Limbach L550E, created in the late 80s of the last century. And despite the fact that the drone was nicknamed the "moped" for the characteristic sound during the flight, its engine is much more powerful.

The advantage of this power plant is its low thermal signature, which makes the kamikaze drone practically invulnerable to Stinger, Strela or Igla MANPADS.

However, Shahed is not an easy target for more serious air defense systems. Small size, aerodynamic design (flying wing) and the predominance of non-metallic parts in the design make it hardly noticeable to radars.

Warhead drone has a mass of 50 kg (9 kg metal case and 41 kg explosive). In general, according to experts, in terms of destructive ability, Shahed 136 can be compared with FAB-100.

The maximum declared range of the "kamikaze drone" is 2000 km. The vehicles are launched from a platform stylized as an ordinary cargo container. One installation accommodates 5 UAVs.

It is worth noting that in Ukraine, as well as in the West, they continue to assert the supply of Iranian "Shaheds" to Russia, which we allegedly call "Geranium-2". At the same time, Tehran transfer drones our country denies.

In fact, Shahed 136 and Geranium-2 are not quite the same thing. And certainly "Geraniums" cannot be supplied from Iran.

The thing is that the Russian UAV is a licensed copy of the Shahed 136 and is assembled in Russia. In addition, instead of the GPS-module for guidance used in the "Shaheds", our "Geranis" are equipped with a control unit of the domestic navigation system "GLONASS".

Comments

[Sarboz]

As long as it's foggy. In principle, from what was written in the article, the conclusion suggests itself that Geranium-2 is an almost complete copy of Shahed-136. However, earlier there were reports that Geranium-2 has larger dimensions and a warhead weight of 75 kg. In addition, an electric motor was found in the wreckage of Gerani-2 Khokhlami. But the noise of the "moped" is his trademark voice acting. Is it a hybrid power plant?

[Barberry25]

given that ours demanded a meeting of the UN Security Council regarding Geraniums, I think ours will say something in the style of "we bought a license from the Iranians"

[Luenkov]

Regarding the supply of rocket weapons to the Nazis, there are no UN meetings in the identification of the participants in the conflict?

[Barberry25]

they give medals for this and reward each other

[lucul]

As long as it's foggy

So what's the fog? What prevented our own from making Geranium -2? That's right - this is the absence of its own line of internal combustion engines in the country. There are motors - there are opportunities to create such (and other new) equipment, there are no motors - smoke bamboo. It is not in vain that the Anglo-Saxons block by any means (up to murders) the development of engine building and other key technologies in competing countries. There is no engine building of its own - there is no modern military-industrial complex either, the most striking examples are the Russian Empire (in 1913) and from modern countries - India.

[solar]

It is not in vain that the Anglo-Saxons block by any means (up to murders) the development of engine building and other key technologies in competing countries.

So they block that the birth of Soviet jet aviation was lost to Mikoyan in billiards.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: lucul

It is not in vain that the Anglo-Saxons block by any means (up to murders) the development of engine building and other key technologies in competing countries.

Why don't ours offer developers of rogue countries (North Korea, Iran, etc.) the territory of their country for their laboratories and design bureaus? I think a lot of things would have fallen to us from the offended (they also have their own intelligence in countries that are not our friends at all)
Personally, I don’t understand all this fuss around Geraniums - it was ours or Iran installed it. All of Europe, together with America, is working for Ukraine, and for some reason we have to report from which country we have UAVs, whether this country is under sanctions or not. They would send all these questioners in bulk, along with those lying under the Americans, the UN and the European Union.

[Stas157]

Quote: Bad_gr

Personally, I don’t understand all this fuss around Geraniums - it was ours or Iran installed it. All of Europe, together with America, is working for Ukraine, and for some reason we have to report which country our UAV is from

The problem is not with us, but with Iran. It's rolling on him. Whole West. Russia can protect Iran?

I don’t know if it’s true or not, but they say Israel bombed the plant for the production of Shaheds. Russia can than the answer? Hypothetically?

In any case, it's not easy for Iran to get arms supplies to Russia. And money does not play a special role here. Ukraine (the West) can offer them even in larger quantities. Rebuy. So that there would be no supplies to Russia, but to Ukraine.

[Andy_nsk]

Why don't ours offer developers of rogue countries (North Korea, Iran, etc.) the territory of their country for their laboratories and design bureaus?

And why shouldn't Russia provide laboratories and design bureaus for Russians and Russian engineers in general? Pay them a salary that you are not ashamed to give to your wife. And then we mainly have pensioners working at such enterprises, for whom the salary is a kind of supplement to the pension. And young people do not even think about going there, because salespeople receive many times more than engineers and designers! Otherwise, I often read wishes on VO that they should revive charades, where the designers would work under the supervision of the NKVD. I think in this case, even those hard-working engineers who still remain in Russia and work in their specialty in production in the private sector will be stupidly thrown out of the country at the first threat of being behind bars!

[Bad_gr]

Quote from Andy_nsk

And why shouldn't Russia provide laboratories and design bureaus for Russians and Russian engineers in general?

It does not interfere.

[Roma 1977]

We messed up. It was assumed that without British technology for creating blades for a jet engine, the USSR would not be able to produce engines comparable to English ones. But the USSR could.

[AC130 Gunship]

Soviet jet aviation took a sharp step forward after the capture of German design bureaus in 45. And American rocket science, by the way, too

[Alexander Minkin]

Oh my God, we can't create a mini chicken coop

[Guran33 Sergey]

The market for "corn crops" is tightly packed with manufacturers .. The domestic market is weak, so a car of this class simply will not make a profit, so they are hoarding and dragging out time while the state gives money.

[ramzay21]

So what's the fog? What prevented our own from making Geranium -2?

Only wrecking and sabotage of the country's leadership, the Ministry of Defense and the military-industrial complex. All the possibilities, experience and technologies for the creation and production of UAVs have been in our country since the 70s of the last century.

[Zaurbek]

Iran copied the required German 80-stroke at 2 ..... what technical difficulties does the Russian Federation have for copying? Moreover, the topic of UAVs has, at the very least, been developing in our country since 2008. Even on Orlans, the cost of a Japanese ICE .... and this UAV is almost a consumable in the Army

[stankow]

Why is Orlan a consumable? Who and what knocks him down?

[Zaurbek]

Yes, they crash differently. Military correspondents say that now there is a shortage of Orlans ..... they are lost faster than they arrive.

[Sarboz]

Quote: Zaurbek

Yes, they crash differently. Military correspondents say that now there is a shortage of Orlans ..... they are lost faster than they arrive.

This is a clear exaggeration of the problem. Eagles are produced quite a lot. Is it possible to trust the fact that they are shot down, and even so often that they do not have time to replace them? It's a matter of faith. Faith in the invincibility of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Pashinsky, in an "interview" with our comrades, it was not in vain that he wept so colorfully that the combination of Orlans and self-propelled guns poses a serious problem for the Armed Forces of Ukraine at the front.

[Zaurbek]

There is a very large percentage of command drones at the front ..... They are highly provided .., they also correct artillery.

[Sarboz]

Quote: Zaurbek

There is a very large percentage of command drones at the front ..... They are highly provided .., they also correct artillery.

That's just commercial drones and are "consumable", they are brought down with the help of electronic warfare and simple anti-drone guns. Orlan-10 has an inertial system and you can't just drop it.
Orlan-10 is not a consumable. Ukrainian air defense against them is also powerless as against Geranium-2.

[unhappy]

All drones in the conditions of a developed air defense system are consumables. You can be a miracle weapon in Afghanistan or Armenia, but even the remnants of Ukrainian air defense can shoot down such targets well. In the telegram I read swearing, as an example, in March the eagle attached to the regiment was shot down and fought without it until the fall ...

[Sarboz]

Quote: unhappy

All drones in the conditions of a developed air defense system are consumables.
... but even the remnants of Ukrainian air defense can shoot down such targets well.

The thing is that so far only our modern air defense has shown an effective fight against drones. The American air defense in Saudi Arabia demonstrated its complete helplessness when large oil refineries burned down in 2019. And all because only our design bureaus took the path of missile and gun systems. Ukraine has nothing of the kind. Therefore, they shoot down our drones so rarely that it is not worth talking about.
Commercial UAVs are a different topic. They are landed with the help of electronic warfare.

[unhappy]

They have beeches, electronic warfare systems from friends from NATO - everything is not so simple ...

[Piramidon]

Quote: stankow

Why is Orlan a consumable? Who and what knocks him down?

It's not about hitting. This is a disposable kamikaze drone, in fact - a projectile. Ammunition is a consumable

[Sarboz]

Quote: Piramidon

Quote: stankow

Why is Orlan a consumable? Who and what knocks him down?

It's not about hitting. This is a disposable kamikaze drone, in fact - a projectile. Ammunition is a consumable

You've lost the discussion a bit. We started about Geranium-2, and then switched to Orlan-10. And this is a multi-purpose reconnaissance drone.

[Piramidon]

I beg your pardon. Didn't notice the transition from "Geranya" to "Eagles"

[stankow]

pyramidon, Orlan is just a scout.
.............

[AC130 Gunship]

"At the very least" - this is the definition that fits. Tupolev in the 70s produced serial UAVs. All that was needed was not to lose engineering brains

[Zaurbek]

All that was needed was to correctly understand what would be needed in the future and correctly prioritize planning. The budgets at that time were gigantic, there were a lot of engineers ..... Examples of Israel's use against the USSR were ...

[Guran33 Sergey]

And by the way, the outlying TU-UAVs (exactly the one from the seventies) one frightened our air defense in the Crimea, the second "somehow" fell in the suburbs of Vienna (they, the Hungarian and Austrian air defense of NATO did not notice it)

[Oleg812spb]

It is possible that there will be a license not for the entire device, but for some components. The rest can be optimized for a particular DB theater. A range of 2000 km is hardly needed, due to this it is possible to increase the warhead. Hybrid installation - in this case, it's overweight. The electric motor can be from some kind of servo or turn out to be a dynamo.

[Bayun]

Offhand, it also seems that with a less powerful (and this is weight!) Gasoline generator and a modern electric motor, the UAV can either take more warhead weight (which is in fact) or fly further.

Offtopic. This is exactly the scheme I would put in a Russian hybrid electric car: a gasoline or diesel generator of a motorcycle volume + a relatively "cheap" small battery for 50-100 km of run for daily urban mode or "before refueling". I believe that 0,5 million rubles in price compared to a full-electric car could be saved.

With a 15-minute quick charge circuit, any tire shop or roadside shop will also become a "gas station". Even a barbershop or beauty salon can "give a light." For women in the city - the perfect cart.

Something like "Oka" with one motor-wheel, would fit into the price tag of "a quadric with a roof".

[Bingo]

It is logical that GPSS was changed to Glonass, otherwise the Pentagon could change the coordinates in navigators - just spit, they have already arranged this more than once

[Cheshire]

Quote from Bingo

and then the Pentagon to change the coordinates in the navigators - just spit, more than once they arranged this

And what, is it possible to selectively change the coordinates in a single moving device? I seem to be completely behind the times, please remind me where they did this more than once? Googled it myself, couldn't find it.

[Horon]

The coordinates are changing not in the device, they are changing in a certain territory, and for the military (USA's own needs), they will be reliable for civilians will be shifted. Do you think anyone will supply military GPS devices to us?

[PPD]

instead of a GPS module for guidance, ...... a control unit of the domestic GLONASS navigation system is installed.

There are no difficulties?

[Horon]

I gave my comment on the statement:

And what, is it possible to selectively change the coordinates in a single moving device?

The person with doubt reacted just to the installation of the navigation system namely "glonass". At least that's how I understood it, they say gps will do.

[Cheshire]

Quote: Horon

I gave my comment on the statement:
And what, is it possible to selectively change the coordinates in a single moving device?

The person with doubt reacted just to the installation of the navigation system namely "glonass". At least that's how I understood it, they say gps will do.

Where did you get this from - you know better, I did not know about the possibility of changing the coordinates in a single device, which I asked about. For your part, you are free to think out whatever you want, and, according to your fantasies, build conclusions. Your right.

[VPK-65]

The coordinates are changing not in the device, they are changing in a certain territory, and for the military (USA's own needs), they will be reliable for civilians will be shifted.

Everything is absolutely correct.

Do you think anyone will supply military GPS devices to us?

And do we need it? According to my knowledge (don't ask where), we can also "slightly change" the GPS grid since at least 2014. 200 meters left/right for sure no problem. The equipment is mounted on the machine and can work on the go. Why it was not used, for example, to protect the Antonov bridge is a question ...

[AC130 Gunship]

There are a couple of places in Moscow where GPS will show you that you are currently in a different area of ​​the city.

[Horon]

And we need it?

I also think so, well, maybe only for study, although, most likely, there are already enough such samples.

According to my knowledge (don't ask where), we can also "slightly change" the GPS grid since at least 2014.

In my opinion, too, moreover, I have already encountered this more than once.
I'm not sure that this system also works on military gps systems, but I won't argue.

Why it was not used, for example, to protect the Antonov bridge is a question ...

You answered your own question:

200 meters left/right

There is an inertial navigation system that compensates for gps coordinate distortions if they occur in a small area. If the distortions started at 30-50 kilometers, then the inertial would also begin to adjust to the new coordinates. And so ..., the accuracy will only slightly decrease, for us it will not even be noticeable.

[VPK-65]

I'm not sure if this system also works on military gps systems

Regarding the "military gps systems" - it is designed for them, moreover, for the US ones, but there is one BUT: it was checked only on export versions.
In general, it was (let's say vaguely) in one of the countries of the Middle East, (it will come) where our civilian specialists, not particularly advertised, checked two such cars. Well, suddenly fighting ... in short, the car had to be urgently pulled out of there. Then it’s almost trite - they sent a PMC to help in the evacuation and ...
This is where the story happened: it was necessary to drive along the highway under fire and these cars put one in front of the column and the other behind. Results - the breaks were 200m undershoot, 200m overshoot, even the highway was not damaged. The column, of course, was not long, not like the length of the Antonov bridge, but ... it seems that these 2 cars are connected and if they were placed along the edges of the bridge ...
PS I mean that 200 meters is NOT a radius around one car.

[Bingo]

When developing the GPS system, the US Department of Defense required that the SPS service provide a location accuracy of no better than 100 m. But modern civilian GPS receivers can potentially calculate the location of objects with an accuracy of 20-40 m, so they can also be used as military receivers. The military departments see this as a threat to national security. To mitigate this threat, the US Department of Defense uses the SA (Selective Availability) Modus, in which signals transmitted to all civilian users provide less location accuracy than signals available to military users. This is achieved by intentionally introducing fluctuations into signals for civilian users, distorting received data.

Armada International.- 1998.- No. 4.- P. 22 26. Space News,- 1996.- 18-24 March.- P. 1, 21.
In general, google "navigation war"

The US DoD combined these principles with the introduction of a new concept or term "navigation war" (Navigation War, abbreviated as NavWar).

It was used in general in all conflicts, the same Iraq with Afghanistan

[Zaurbek]

There is this on the CD, but several targets are scored at once in the GOS and then, in flight, some team chooses a program or changes the target. But only from preloaded targets. More progressive systems appear on Tomogawks, we don’t know.

[PPD]

In more progressive systems and more progressive price.
And at a more progressive price, a less progressive number of copies.

[Zaurbek]

Yes..... Price/effect... Quantity. It’s cheaper to send 3 geraniums for 3 targets at once ....... Than to retarget one back and forth

[Timofey Smagin]

Simple enough. A generator that broadcasts a false GPS signal, more powerful than a satellite. the closer you are to the generator, the more clearly it clogs the signal from the satellite. Since the satellite flies high, at 100 kilometers, then at a distance of 1 km, the signal from a generator of the same power is 100 times stronger. We also have such a thing, sometimes they turn it on in the Kremlin area. and all navigators start fooling around. This slave in Khimki periodically tries to send me.

[kot423]

Quote from Bingo

To change the coordinates for the Pentagon in navigators - it’s time to spit, this has already been arranged more than once

And what? In general, our mattress troughs changed the coordinates of the jeeps for XNUMX km, it turned out that Odessa was in the Kuban region (I exaggerate). There are a lot of links in the search engines. So jeepies for mattresses is not a panacea, even without bringing down satellites.

[Horon]

Assembly from components with partial replacement of some components and equipping your own warhead.
Smith is a Smith, but not the same.

[Oleg812spb]

Most likely, this video from the True Life channel was meant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps38snV0r_g

[Cuckoo]

And certainly "Gerani" can not shipped from Iran.

"What is your evidence?" © Red heat

The thing is that the Russian UAV is a licensed copy of the Shahed 136 and assembled in Russia.

And to hint where exactly he is "going to"?

In addition, instead of the GPS-module for guidance used in the "Shaheds", our "Geranis" are equipped with a control unit of the domestic navigation system "GLONASS".

There are two options:
- change the module in Russia;
- Supply modules to Iran for re-export.

IMHO, these are ridiculous excuses in favor of the poor (i.e. us), we did not have time to deploy this "licensed" production.

[Alexander Minkin]

This will be answered by the former prime minister for the military-industrial complex Borisov, thrown into space: UAV, unfortunately, we overslept

[bk316]

There are two options:
- change the module in Russia;
- Supply modules to Iran for re-export.

SET UP. No one has been making GPS modules for 5 years.
Now there are generally 4 system units (ZHPS GLONASS Bijou and Galileo) a default system or blocking of certain systems purely programmatically. The exception is the chips ordered by the Pentagon, but they have nowhere to come from in Iran.

[TatarinSSSR]

Iran has the right to sell licenses for its developments, Russia has the right to buy them. And vice versa. And all the sanctions of the United States and their colonies are one-sided personal Wishlist, which we and the Iranians should be on the sidelines.

[Submariner971]

The hardest part about it is the engine. He is from Iran and is delivered for sure! The rest - at least a license, at least call it inspiration - will not change the essence.

[topol717]

Kapets. 2-stroke air-cooled engine with carburetor, the hardest part???? Kapets. Any motorized plow, moped, etc. contains such a motor, with the only difference being that there are 4 independent boxer cylinders. With a displacement of 125 cubic meters each cylinder. When you write, at least think a little.

[Zaurbek]

There is even something else .... Both Iran and the Russian Federation are under strong sanctions ....... Well, they are selling, well, they are buying ...... How do you put pressure on such countries?

[Crisp]

Quote from Bingo

It is logical that GPSS was changed to Glonass, otherwise the Pentagon could change the coordinates in navigators - just spit, they have already arranged this more than once

Complete nonsense. How to change coordinates in the selected number of navigators? Consumer navigators are pure receivers, catching the signals of several satellites, and calculating their own coordinates by slowing down the clock signal. How to act on UNKNOWN WHERE, it is not known how many, distorting the coordinates in them? Yes, you're crazy. If you distort the data not at the receivers (this is not possible), but at the transmitters (at the satellites), then they will lie to absolutely all consumers. Including for their own.

[Crisp]

Quote: Check

And certainly "Gerani" can not shipped from Iran.

"What is your evidence?" © Red heat

The thing is that the Russian UAV is a licensed copy of the Shahed 136 and assembled in Russia.

And to hint where exactly he is "going to"?

In addition, instead of the GPS-module for guidance used in the "Shaheds", our "Geranis" are equipped with a control unit of the domestic navigation system "GLONASS".

There are two options:
- change the module in Russia;
- Supply modules to Iran for re-export.

IMHO, these are ridiculous excuses in favor of the poor (i.e. us), we did not have time to deploy this "licensed" production.

Don't bother. He also wants to know where and how much they are collected in Russia. I have in my garage. Mogo. The result is evaluated, so sit down and don't dust. Your business is veal.

[agond]

Quote - "The warhead of the drone has a mass of 50 kg (9 kg of a metal case and 41 kg of explosive). In general, according to experts, in terms of destructive ability, the Shahed 136 can be compared with the FAB-100."
You can compare, but there is a difference FAB-100
Weight - 100 kg
Type of warhead - high-explosive
The mass of the warhead - 70 kg
Mass of explosive - 45 kg.

[Cuckoo]

There is a difference. But, taking into account the high accuracy of Kherani, its destructive ability can be compared with the FAB-250

[Zaurbek]

And it’s not a fact that an airplane + cast iron will be cheaper when completing a task than a geranium ..... Well, if Koenigsberg is not broken

[Cuckoo]

The result is evaluated, so sit down and don't dust. Your business is veal.

When there is essentially nothing to answer, you can just goof off.

[bk316]

In addition, instead of the GPS-module for guidance used in the "Shaheds", our "Geranis" are equipped with a control unit of the domestic navigation system "GLONASS".

WELL, OF COURSE!!! And the fact that all chips are multi-system and GPS is being replaced by GLONASS, not even at the software level, but at the level of settings for this software, is such a trifle. LEGALLY this is not a shahid, this is Geranium!

In reality, this means that it takes about a minute to "assemble" a geranium from an Iranian kit. And this is VERY good, finally, someone from the Russian armament turned on his ingenuity.

[Cuckoo]

In reality, this means that it takes about a minute to "assemble" a geranium from an Iranian kit

.
I mean, apply "Geranium-2" with a stencil?

[bk316]

I mean, apply "Geranium-2" with a stencil?

It is time.
And two unscrew a couple of screws, open the hatch, then I don’t know how they implemented it.
Either insert a ROM or a programmer into the port.
Close the hatch and tighten the screws.


In fact, in order for the positioning to work quickly, it is necessary to update the almanac and ephemeris once a month.

[Crisp]

Quote: Alexander Minkin

Oh my God, we can't create a mini chicken coop

So get busy. Didn't do it, so it's necessary. You can't live without it - do it. Enough snot on the sleeve to wind.

[gorg1981]

An article from the category "IhTamNet", in serious terms proving obvious nonsense. Who is it intended for? And People sitting here eats all this? This is my complete disappointment with a resource that once inspired confidence. As well as the intellect of fellow citizens. In vain I only registered to write comments. If it gets published at all.

[Ivanushka Ivanov]

Iran, with great difficulty and great bloodshed, wrested its true sovereignty from the United States. And the Americans still do not stop trying to deprive him of it))) they want to deprive this country of everything (most importantly, a calm and decent life for citizens) - turn it into a second Libya or Iraq ... If there is no Russia, Iran will not survive. But Iran is like air for us. There will be no Iran - already tomorrow ISIS will come to the entire unprotected south of our country, appear in the Caucasus, Bashkiria, Tatarstan, Turkey with all the consequences, etc.
But, as it turned out, Iran is not only strong guys who bravely fight against American proxies in Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan...
This is Geranium and much more ... Of course, how could it be otherwise - Iran has nothing to do with this - we can prove it at the UN!

[SIT]

Well damn found knowhow. Such a Geranium in the USSR could be molded in any house of pioneers in an aircraft modeling circle. Well, there is nothing outrageously advanced there. Glonass now stands on any garbage truck, so that the garbage is carried only to a landfill, and not dumped in the forest. You can also make a control unit from it on your knee. The whole charm of this flower is that it can be riveted by the thousands in any artel for the price of a decommissioned rag.

[Sergei N 58912062]

Yes, in fact, what's the difference between our Geranium-2 or the Iranian Shahid-136. The main thing is that there should be a result from the use of these drones!
And in general, with what such a fright Iran and Russia are obliged to report to someone!

[shinobi]

"What an owl about a stump, what a stump on an owl!" The positive thing is that if we do it ourselves, then we are not dependent on Iranian supplies. And this is good! A license or just a copy, this is the tenth thing, unprincipled.

[brondulyak]

And what difference does it make to us - bought, built under a license or something else? Works well, and thank God

[acetophenone]

Quote from: topol717

Kapets. 2-stroke air-cooled engine with carburetor, the hardest part???? Kapets. Any motorized plow, moped, etc. contains such a motor, with the only difference being that there are 4 independent boxer cylinders. With a displacement of 125 cubic meters each cylinder. When you write, at least think a little.

When you write, look at the specific power of the Iranian / Chinese / German engine and your motorized plows with mopeds.