Medieval war elephants

173
Medieval war elephants


“... and he ran under that elephant,
lay under him and killed him,
and the elephant fell on him to the ground,
and he died there."

First Book of Maccabees, 6:46

History and culture. We have more than once on the pages of VO raised the question of how people in the old days distributed and stored information. For example, how people of different nations passed it on to each other in the early Bronze Age in the absence of writing. Or another question, where did they get information about events that they did not witness? When people had written language, it became possible to accumulate any information and pass it on to their descendants, in fact, they could pass it on before, but now, in addition to the oral channel, there is also a written one. That is, the opportunities for informing people have become more.



But ... here there was one important problem related to the ability to interpret written information. For example, we can see an elephant in a drawing, but not knowing that it is an elephant, we cannot call it ... an elephant! And vice versa: after reading in a text description what an elephant looks like, not every person after that will be able to portray him like ... an elephant, even if he knows how to draw.

A very striking example of such difficulties can be medieval miniatures from European manuscripts with images of ancient war elephants. In the ancient world, they were used quite widely, so they certainly got into the descriptions of ancient historians. The books of Herodotus, Aristotle and many other ancient authors were well known to enlightened Europeans in the Middle Ages. They were read, they were copied in monasteries. But what about the layout? The fact is that ancient manuscripts did not contain illustrations, and bas-reliefs depicting war elephants existed, but just in those places where European chroniclers did not look.

Hence, it is in the images of war elephants in the miniatures of medieval illuminators that we have a truly amazing fusion of knowledge and fantasy, and each miniature from a dated manuscript is also every time a monument to its time, because what surrounded these artists at that time, they depicted usually very accurately. But they did not have a historical vision of history, and therefore extrapolated their vision of modern realities into the distant past.

By the way, many readers of VO, after the publication of the material devoted to the bestiary manuscripts of the Middle Ages, asked me to tell specifically about war elephants. But what war elephants were in Europe in the Middle Ages? Yes, they were used in India for quite a long time, and the armor of one of them even flaunts in the Royal Arsenal in Leeds in England. But… if the Europeans knew about them, then only by hearsay, and then after the successful return of Vasco da Gama's expedition. And so, it was information through the tenth hand, at the level of stories about dog-headed people and gold-bearing ants.

In addition, to talk simply about the elephants depicted in the miniatures, in my opinion, would not be very interesting. It will be much more interesting if we, again, consider each miniature “with elephants” as a historical source. So, here they are, beauties, right in front of us!


One of the earliest images of a war elephant is found in the Bestiary of 1185, created in England. Pierpont Morgan Library and Museum, New York. It is obvious that the artist has never seen an elephant live. But in general, he conveyed his appearance quite accurately. On the heads of the warriors, helmets are very characteristic of this particular time.


Another miniature from the "Bestiary", but already 1225-1250. Salisbury. British Library, London. Here, knights in topfhelm and chapelle-de-fer helmets with axes, spears and a crossbow in their hands sit on an elephant, and they, in turn, are fired upon by archers and slingers


Miniature from the "Theological Collection", 1236-1275. England. British Library, London. Perhaps this is where the elephant looks most realistic!


Just a wonderful miniature from the manuscript "The Book of Ancient Stories", 1285. Place of creation: France. British Library, London. The smallest details of equipment and clothes, as well as the faces of the characters, are very carefully written out. However, look who makes up, so to speak, the “crew” of a war elephant? These are clearly Muslims in turbans, who are surrounded by Western European knights


"Decretals of Gregory IX", 1275-1325 Place of Creation: South of France, British Library, London. On the miniature from this manuscript, we, again, see an elephant with a huge two-tiered tower on its back. Most likely, the medieval illustrator wanted to impress those who had to consider his miniatures with the huge appearance of an elephant.


"Psalter from Peterborough", 1300-1325. England. Royal Library of Belgium, Brussels. Funny scene, isn't it? The elephant is given to drink!


The Middle Ages was not already as dark a time as some imagine. If desired, at that time it was possible to get acquainted with such a manuscript as Ancient History before Caesar, 1325-1350, which was written in Naples in Italy, and is now in the British Library in London. Here, for the artist, everything was clearly very simple. Quite contemporary knights in his miniature ride elephants, as if on donkeys, and the elephants are drawn with hooves! It is interesting that on the heads of many of the warriors they wear helmets with a cruciform reinforcement of the front part and, in addition, with a crown extended upwards, which received a very apt nickname - "sugar loaf"


Manuscript called "Decades" (this was also a very popular genre of ten-year chronicles), 1370 France. Library of St. Genevieve, Paris. This is how the miniaturist saw the battle with elephants. And everything seems to be within reason. But these war elephants just clearly lack a driver!


Miniature from the very popular in the Middle Ages treatise "The Mirror of Human Salvation", 1325-1375. Germany. British Library, London. Here, an impressive tower is placed on the elephant, and even with a door, which seems to show the scale. But here the human figure under the word is clearly drawn on a completely different scale. Such was the peculiarity of medieval painting. The artist who illustrated the text, first of all, tried to show what is happening in the text. In this case, no doubt, the biblical text from the "First Book of Maccabees" was illustrated. Size discrepancies didn't bother him. Readers, no doubt, perfectly understood that an elephant with a tower on its back is large, and a warrior striking him with a spear is small. By the way, for some reason, the elephant itself most of all looks like a horse!


Another "Mirror of Human Salvation", and of the same years (1325-1375), but from the State Library of Baden. Here the same scene is presented in a completely different way ...


The next "Mirror ...", 1330-1340 Vienna, Austria. Austrian National Library. Elephant, again, on horse hooves and very vicious in appearance. And the tower for the warriors on his back is completely drawn with a two-tier


A beautiful miniature from the extremely popular in the Middle Ages "Romance of Alexander" (of course, this is Alexander the Great), circa 1338-1344. Bodleian Library, Oxford University. Here you can see armor, and a surcoat, and horse armor along with a blanket, different types of helmets and even a rondel dagger. Moreover, it is very significant that under the surcoat, Alexander clearly shows armor made of riveted strips, that is, this miniature very reliably represents to us a knight in the armor of the “transitional period” - from the “epoch of chain mail” to the “epoch of white armor”. Well, where is the elephant on it? An elephant, or rather - elephants, with huge towers on their backs are depicted under the belly of Alexander's horse. After all, Alexander is more important!


Another miniature from another Decades manuscript, 1401-1433. France, Troyenne Agglomeration Mediatheque. However, here is another disproportionate image. Apparently, the illustrator came across the expression "riding an elephant." So he literally portrayed a man ... riding an elephant!


And finally, one of the latest book miniatures depicting a war elephant. Another "Mirror of human salvation", 1450 Bruges, Belgium. Pierpont Morgan Library and Museum, New York

Why "last"? Well, perhaps there are others, but the thing is that in 1450 books were not only written by hand, but also began to be printed. Printed books published in Europe from the beginning of printing to January 1, 1501, were called incunabula, and they also contained illustrations, but already printed. For the time being, we are considering only medieval manuscripts and their miniatures.
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

173 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +9
    27 October 2022 05: 40
    “Legs, wings…. The most important thing is the tail!
    Thanks and good morning to all the comrades!!!
    1. +5
      27 October 2022 08: 49
      In this case, the "most important" is probably the trunk.
      1. +1
        27 October 2022 10: 59
        Quote: vet
        In this case, the "most important" is probably the trunk.

        I remembered the medieval idiom "an animal with two tails."
    2. +3
      27 October 2022 10: 22
      And what's so surprising? This is the time of the crusades to the east. so that not only knights, but also pilgrim monks could meet with elephants. Another question fought or not on elephants?
      1. +2
        27 October 2022 10: 59
        Quote: Wend
        And what's so surprising? This is the time of the crusades to the east. so that not only knights, but also pilgrim monks could meet with elephants. Another question fought or not on elephants?

        In the Middle East and North Africa, elephants were no longer found during the Crusades.
        So the first meetings with the Indian domestic elephant of Europeans coincide with the great geographical discoveries. However, there have always been exceptions, such as the Elephant of Charlemagne, at the dawn of the Middle Ages, or the description of elephants by Mark Polo.
        1. +2
          27 October 2022 13: 06
          Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Quote: Wend
          And what's so surprising? This is the time of the crusades to the east. so that not only knights, but also pilgrim monks could meet with elephants. Another question fought or not on elephants?

          However, there have always been exceptions, such as the Elephant of Charlemagne, at the dawn of the Middle Ages, or the description of elephants by Mark Polo.

          Thats exactly what I mean hi
  2. +10
    27 October 2022 06: 05
    Good morning friends! hi

    Thanks to Vyacheslav, as always, for the beautiful article and funny "pictures". smile

    for some reason, the elephant itself most of all looks like a horse!


    What kind of horse is there, Vyacheslav, you look at its hooves, but it's just some kind of gazelle in a gas mask and with boar fangs! laughing

    Well, the artist gave soot - he stuck a little from each creature that he personally saw and created, to the delight of everyone, some kind of Heffalump. good

    Well, this one really looks like a tank.


    And the pragmatic British even in the XNUMXth century found a use for the elephant in the army.

    There is no three-tier tower, there is no armor either, but there is quite a real Colt-Browning M1895 machine gun (Potato digger).
    1. +7
      27 October 2022 08: 20
      Quote: Sea Cat
      machine gun Colt-Browning M1895

      Good morning Konstantin!
      The reaction of the elephant to the machine-gun rumble near its ears is interesting. laughing
      Earplugs? bully
      1. +6
        27 October 2022 09: 29
        Hello, Sergey! smile

        Interesting reaction of the elephant


        And God knows, he looks painfully dull, and hot shells are pouring down his collar. laughing
        1. +1
          11 December 2022 22: 27
          Open field, no scenery - a theatrical production ...
          1. +2
            12 December 2022 11: 59
            What exactly, "Potato digger" on an elephant, a pillar in the background, or a dull physiognomy of the warriors on the left?
    2. +5
      27 October 2022 13: 12
      The armor, like on an elephant model, was kept in the UK in a museum.
      1. +6
        27 October 2022 13: 23
        Yes, here most of the miniatures, in whatever country of Europe they were made, are also stuffed into British museums. At one time, the "mistress of the seas" stole without false modesty. laughing
      2. 0
        17 December 2022 01: 50
        The armor is classy, ​​but the turret was built and overdone. Krisha, for example, why, from javelins? wink
        1. -1
          17 December 2022 06: 43
          From arrows, for example.
          Quote: stankow
          Krisha, for example, why, from javelins?
          1. 0
            17 December 2022 11: 46
            If the arrow falls at such a large angle, it no longer poses any danger, the speed is lost.
            1. 0
              17 December 2022 13: 22
              Represents - and fired from bows over long distances canopy.
              1. 0
                18 December 2022 02: 57
                At what angle did your arrows fall, did they reach such a ceiling? And with this, did they still have the energy to break through the helmet, chain mail, shoulder pads? Honestly ?! wink
                1. 0
                  18 December 2022 03: 11
                  Does the angle matter?
                  Quote: stankow
                  Honestly ?!
                  1. 0
                    18 December 2022 12: 27
                    It has. A large drop angle is evidence of a large loss of speed and energy of the ammunition.
                    1. 0
                      18 December 2022 12: 33
                      A large angle is how much and why did you decide that it is large?
                      1. 0
                        18 December 2022 13: 42
                        Well, such that it was necessary to build a roof on the turrets of a poor animal, an extra 100 kg and an increase in the central heating. "protects" from falling arrows at an angle of 70-90 degrees.

                        So the tower was never combat, they put a promenade. With sun protection.

                        And look at the pictures. Not a single roof. Prevents weapons from wielding. And it's already tight in there.
                      2. 0
                        18 December 2022 14: 59
                        Is there no sun over the battlefield?)
                        Quote: stankow
                        So the tower was never combat, they put a promenade. With sun protection.



                        Quote: stankow
                        And look at the pictures. Not a single roof. Prevents weapons from wielding. And it's already tight in there.

                        So the buildings are cramped.
                      3. 0
                        18 December 2022 15: 15
                        There is sun, but not until then. It is important that the bows work without touching the upper arc and the throwing spear can be swung.

                        ###So it's crowded in buildings
                        And in the buildings they did not fight with a bow and a spear. Only with a sword, even a saber is crowded there.
                      4. 0
                        18 December 2022 15: 27
                        Quote: stankow
                        And look at the pictures. Not a single roof. Prevents weapons from wielding. And it's already tight in there.


                      5. 0
                        18 December 2022 15: 48
                        And, was there stonework there? wink And iron bars on the windows? And the roof is capital, gable, probably from precipitation? You understand - the artist of the elephant with real I didn’t see the turret, so I did it. And the article said. So "evidence" is rejected wink
                      6. 0
                        20 December 2022 08: 12
                        This is more a reason to reflect on the device of a war elephant than proof.

                        In my opinion, on such an armored elephant, it is easier to put warriors in ring-shaped armor, helmets, bracers, greaves, without any towers.
                      7. 0
                        20 December 2022 12: 16
                        Exactly. There was no tower and no roof. Just a light fenced platform made of boards. In the campaign, it was possible to raise a light awning on the bars.
    3. +7
      27 October 2022 14: 43
      And the pragmatic British even in the XNUMXth century found a use for the elephant in the army.

      ,, and not only in the army.
      There is a unit of measure for power or the speed of doing work in horsepower, and in elephants this is how much request winked

      1. +2
        27 October 2022 22: 42
        in horsepower, and in elephants this is how much request winked


        I have no idea, but the plow must be at least three times larger. laughing

        Good evening, Sergey!
  3. +6
    27 October 2022 06: 13
    "That evening Piglet couldn't sleep for a long time wondering if the Heffalumps love piglets and HOW they love them!" (FROM)
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. +7
      27 October 2022 07: 45
      and how they love them!


      Part three, she is the last - "Piglet, Heffalump and bestiality." wassat



      Hello, Spearman! drinks
  4. +8
    27 October 2022 06: 13
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich! The theme and the selection of the drawing are gone.

    You can get an idea of ​​elephants from drawings. And when the elephant was not at hand, the horses served as the sitter.
    As discussed recently, Sophia Loren is not for everyone. And okay.
    1. +8
      27 October 2022 07: 53
      You can get an idea of ​​elephants from drawings.


      Sometimes very strange... smile

      1. +6
        27 October 2022 08: 13
        Ears, trunk and tusks are in place. And try to build a prosthetic leg for an elephant.

        I'm an artist, I see so
        1. +6
          27 October 2022 09: 38
          I'm an artist, I see so




          Good morning, Sergey! smile
          1. +5
            27 October 2022 14: 51
            Greetings, Constantine!

            Mornings, as is well known, are wiser than evenings.
            1. +1
              27 October 2022 22: 47
              Mornings, as is well known, are wiser than evenings.


              Because in the morning there comes a sobering up, and at the same time a hangover. laughing
          2. +2
            27 October 2022 18: 47
            Good morning, Sergey!
            In this context, it sounds like a mockery ...
            1. +1
              27 October 2022 22: 48
              Don't take everything personally. laughing
      2. +1
        17 December 2022 01: 52
        Zto elephant steampunk laughing
        .....................
    2. +6
      27 October 2022 09: 22
      As discussed recently, Sophia Loren is not for everyone. And okay.

      I agree with Monica Bellucci! laughing
      Having read and viewed the illustrative material, and even with references to a religious theme, I will repeat my phrase: it would be very vulgar for our Vyacheslav Olegovich to be a preacher. Listening to him, others would certainly burst into tears, and some even believed! laughing Pleasant and unobtrusive. Yes Have a nice day, everyone! drinks
      1. +5
        27 October 2022 14: 52
        To whom Bellucci, to whom Lewinsky.
        Everyone will get something.
        1. +3
          27 October 2022 15: 37
          Everyone will get something.

          That's right. drinks
  5. +7
    27 October 2022 06: 16
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Heffalump piglets and HOW they love them!" (C)

    They love... they especially love to listen to them crunch under their feet.
    An enraged elephant is terrible in anger ... tramples on everything that comes across.
  6. +4
    27 October 2022 07: 22
    But ... the Europeans, if they knew about them, then only by hearsay, and then after the successful return of the expedition of Vasco da Gama

    But what about the elephant presented to Charlemagne by the head of the Baghdad Caliphate? Is he also called "Beloved Elephant"?

    And long before the Middle Ages, the Romans living in Africa saw elephants. Yes, and in the Byzantine African possessions, there were probably elephants. The crusaders who ended up in Palestine, and then in Africa, probably encountered them ...
    1. +5
      27 October 2022 07: 30
      Quote: Luminman
      encountered them...

      But if there were no artists among them, then ... you yourself understand.
      1. +5
        27 October 2022 07: 34
        But if there were no artists among them

        Surely they were! Just like the chroniclers who keep records of the campaign. It's just like in a modern conflict there are both photographers and journalists ...
        1. +5
          27 October 2022 09: 10
          Quote: Luminman
          Surely they were!

          We cannot confirm this. Yes or no - 50/50.
    2. +8
      27 October 2022 07: 31
      Quote: Luminman
      But what about the elephant presented to Charlemagne by the head of the Baghdad Caliphate?

      I don't know if this elephant was painted.
    3. +5
      27 October 2022 09: 25
      Here is just one sadness: of the two species of African elephants, only one is tamed, the least common, whose habitat is located in Central Africa.
      1. +4
        27 October 2022 10: 44
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Of the two species of African elephants, only one is tamed.

        It depends on what you mean by the word "taming". If you use an elephant in combat, for circus performances or for lifting weights - this is one thing. And it is quite another to keep him as a pet, for example, as a cat fed on sour cream and milk. Feed, stroke and be touched ... In addition, it is not known what kind of elephant it was. African or Asian...
        1. +4
          27 October 2022 11: 25
          It depends on what you mean by the word "taming". If you use an elephant in combat, for circus performances or for lifting weights - this is one thing.

          The Greeks, describing the campaigns of Alexander the Great, mentioned, “that each drover had a pickaxe (short spear) to kill the elephant if he gets mad.
    4. 0
      2 November 2022 21: 31
      Even Hannibal Barkovich in the 3rd century BC trampled the Romans on elephants during the Runic Wars in Italy ...
  7. +3
    27 October 2022 08: 48
    I did not know that the first (by the time of creation) images of war elephants were so late. Probably illustrations of the XIX-XX centuries. even more realistic than these medieval ones?
  8. +7
    27 October 2022 09: 18
    for some reason, the elephant is most like a horse!

    And here is such
  9. +4
    27 October 2022 09: 27
    Just a wonderful miniature from the manuscript "The Book of Ancient Stories", 1285. Place of creation: France. British Library, London. The smallest details of equipment and clothes, as well as the faces of the characters, are very carefully written out. However, look who makes up, so to speak, the “crew” of a war elephant? These are clearly Muslims in turbans, who are surrounded by Western European knights

    The miniature is really amazing. This manuscript is tentatively titled "Ancient history before Caesar" and was written for Roger IV, chatelain of the castle of Lille at the beginning of the XNUMXth century. The authorship is most often attributed to Vauchier de De Nain.
    The author intended to cover the period from Genesis to the modern history of Flanders, but stops at the conquest of it by Caesar.
    But the most interesting thing is not that. The miniature shows the army of King Pyrrhus of Epirus, and before the battle of Heracles he borrowed these elephants from Ptolemy II, who ruled Egypt. That is, the illustrator fell into the purest anachronism and portrayed the army of Pyrrhus as his contemporaries.
  10. +4
    27 October 2022 10: 05
    Sea Cat (Konstantin), for the photo of an elephant with a machine gun - thanks! I only saw a photo where a couple of elephants are pulling a cannon ... But an elephant does not look very much like a gazelle. Gazelles have straight tails. For some reason, I remembered backyard rural Polkans with dewclaws, and no one cuts their claws in salons, like Yorkshire terriers.
    1. +6
      27 October 2022 10: 39
      I only saw a photo where a couple of elephants are pulling a cannon ..

      Eugene, Mozheiko wrote that in 1944, the Japanese, organizing an attack on Imphal and Kohima, brought several heavy guns to the front on elephants. How it looked, I have little idea.
      1. +4
        27 October 2022 11: 07
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        several heavy guns were brought to the front on elephants.

        Probably disassembled.
        Although if you look at real photos, this does not seem impossible:
      2. +5
        27 October 2022 11: 10
        Quote: Pan Kohanku
        I only saw a photo where a couple of elephants are pulling a cannon ..

        Eugene, Mozheiko wrote that in 1944, the Japanese, organizing an attack on Imphal and Kohima, brought several heavy guns to the front on elephants. How it looked, I have little idea.

        Similarly, elephants were used by the troops of the Indian native principalities and the West Indian colonial troops. Transported 12-18 pound guns.
        If memory serves, even Wellington was noted in this, while still being just a general and even Wellington.
        1. +5
          27 October 2022 11: 11
          In general, quite a heavy transport for those geographical conditions. drinks
          1. +6
            27 October 2022 11: 19
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            In general, quite a heavy transport for those geographical conditions

            Moreover, where a car and even a tank cannot pass, an elephant will pass completely, he is a local. wassat
        2. +2
          27 October 2022 23: 16
          warspot.ru
          The last century of "Living Tanks"
          Photos of the use of elephants in the armies of different countries.
  11. +4
    27 October 2022 10: 43
    War elephants are an interesting topic. Of course, I'm more interested in aviation, but ... I read a long time ago that only Indian elephants can be trained, African species cannot be trained or tamed. Then I was interested in the question, but where did Hannibal take elephants? After all, let's say Carthage, where he was "in authority", and where his campaigns were financed from, was in Africa. Well, Hannibal is, so to speak, not the only ancient owner of elephantia. For the sake of interest, I began to look for something other than the combat use of elephants in Africa, Europe and the Middle East, but I never found it. Like where the elephants come from, where, or how they were trained. If you can find something similar about Indian or Chinese elephant troops, then about elephants in European African and Middle Eastern ancient armies you can only read about the number, and the paradox is that the more elephants in the army, the faster it loses. laughing I read the article "The War Elephants of Antiquity: On the Question of Species", but the evidence is more "plausible" regarding the involvement of Petrov and Bashirov in the poisoning of the Skripals. That's a lot of things in modern research, they also talk about the organization, equipment and tactics of elephantia, its place and role in the military affairs of that time. Describe so that you feel - eyewitnesses. But a simple question is where the elephants come from.
    1. +9
      27 October 2022 11: 10
      Hello, Alexander!
      It is assumed that there was another subspecies of the African elephant, the "Mediterranean", whose representatives made up the elephantia of Hannibal and Pyrrhus.
      1. +4
        27 October 2022 12: 10
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        It is assumed that there was another subspecies of the African elephant, the "Mediterranean", whose representatives made up the elephantia of Hannibal and Pyrrhus.

        Hello Anton! I wrote above that I read an article-speculation titled "War Elephants of Antiquity: On the Question of Species", but everything seems to be scientifically sound, but not a single real confirmation. Mammoths in the museum of Yakutsk even more confirm that the ancient inhabitants of Yakutsk exported furs and fish oil to the markets of Irkutsk and Neryungri on mammoths, until KamAZ trucks went. laughing laughing laughing
        1. +7
          27 October 2022 12: 42
          However, the Chukchi mammoths are better than the Yakut ones.
          1. +6
            27 October 2022 13: 02
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            However, the Chukchi mammoths are better than the Yakut ones.

            Here, of course, every sandpiper praises his own swamp, but given that the Chukchi mammoths more often than the Yakut ones chased the regulations for the thermal springs of Kamchatka, they were closer, and "their own" always provided them with additional opportunities. And the Yakut ones ... Until the order comes, until a replacement is found, until it reaches the MSTO in Kamchatka ... It's easier to take three new ones, like KrAZ at BAM. Therefore, I would not say that the Chukchi ones are better, they just had better service. laughing laughing laughing laughing good good drinks
    2. +3
      27 October 2022 11: 19
      I read a long time ago that only Indian elephants can be trained, African species cannot be trained and cannot be tamed.

      Corrected question, however, it has an answer. You correctly guess that this is a different kind of North African elephant, which was already exterminated in the era of antiquity.
      The elephants of the armies of the Middle East were supplied mainly from India. Then for a long time the Persians held this canal in their hands. From which elephants occasionally got to Europe and even to Russia. A fact is known when the Chinese emperor gave an elephant to a Japanese cousin. The poor Japanese, following the protocol, dragged him in their arms. It's actually the XNUMXth century.
      1. +4
        27 October 2022 12: 34
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        Corrected question, however, it has an answer. You correctly guess that this is a different kind of North African elephant, which was already exterminated in the era of antiquity.

        Let's start with the fact that there is no answer to the question, but there are only guesses and assumptions. And this is not my guess, but they are trying to prove it based on evidence of the type -BUT IT IS COMPLETELY POSSIBLE, and THERE IS A SUPPOSITION. There is no other evidence for this. As well as the fact that the war elephants in Syria were of Indian origin. It's all based on assumptions. But not evidence. Oil and bitumen in the Middle East began to be used a very long time ago. There are ancient Assyrian texts that the ancient Sumerians used asphalt / bitumen in the construction of their cities and roads. And also use oil, including for obtaining the results of the distillation of this product, resulting in liquids that we now call diesel fuel, kerosene and gasoline. Therefore, the ancient Sumerians already used vehicles with internal combustion engines powered by petroleum products. And this transport moved along roads covered with asphalt / bitumen. Confirmation - do they find the remains of roads in ancient Sumerian cities? Find! Was oil divided into fractions? Shared! Everything . So with Hannibal, according to such evidence, it turns out that there were elephants of a different system. Even if we assume that there was another subspecies of the AFRICAN elephant. and at the moment there are two of them Savannah and Forest, but both have, according to experts, one drawback is not tamed, then do you really think that there was a separate Mediterranean subspecies friendly to man? Although ... In connection with the extinction, in antiquity, of the Mediterranean subspecies of the elephant, the surviving relatives decided to declare war, or rather boycott, Homo sapiens, and will not be tamed. laughing laughing laughing
    3. +2
      27 October 2022 13: 23
      Table of contents


      Introduction
      Source base
      Historiography
      CHAPTER I. BACKGROUND

      1.1 Domestication of the elephant War elephants in ancient India
      1.2. The first Greek evidence of elephants
      1.3. Elephants in the army of Alexander the Great. Battle of the Hydaspes (326) and aftermath
      CHAPTER II. ELEPHANTHERY IN THE WARRIORS OF THE DIADOCH (322-281) AND PYRRAS (280-272)

      2.1. War Elephants in the Warriors of the Diadochi of the XNUMXth c. BC.
      2.2. Elephant Corps of Seleucus Battle of Ipsus (301)
      2.1 Elephantery in the campaigns of Pyrrhus of Epirus (280=272)
      CHAPTER III. WAR ELEPHANTS IN THE ARMIES OF PTOLEMAI EGYPT AND THE SELEUCID KINGDOM

      11. Elephantery of the Seleucids in 281-217. "Battle of the Elephants" (270s)
      3.2. Formation of the elephant corps of the Lagids (late IV4II century BC)
      3.3. Indian Elephants vs. African Elephants: The Battle of Raphia (217)
      3.4. Elephantery of the Ptolemies and the Seleucids at the end of the XNUMXrd-XNUMXnd centuries. BC
      CHAPTER IV. EQUIPMENT, ORGANIZATION AND TACTICS OF ELEPHANTHERIA

      4.1. Equipment
      4.2. Organization and tactics
      Conclusion
      List of used sources and literature

      Tagging


      Cover

      UDC 433

      BBC 63.3 (0) 322

      A 13

      The book was published with the financial support of B.S. Tritenko



      Abakumov A.A., Ph.D.

      A 13 War elephants in the history of the Hellenistic world (the last third of the 2012th - 116nd centuries BC) Monograph. M.: OOO Publishing House "Kniga", XNUMX. - XNUMX p., ill.

      ISBN 978-5-91899-078-0
      Quote: Fitter65
      For the sake of interest, I began to look for something other than the combat use of elephants in Africa, Europe and the Middle East, but I never found it. Like where the elephants come from, where, or how they were trained. If you can find something similar about Indian or Chinese elephant troops, then about elephants in European African and Middle Eastern ancient armies you can only read about the number, and the paradox is that the more elephants in the army, the faster it loses.
      1. +2
        27 October 2022 13: 39
        Quote: Maxim G
        The book was published with the financial support of B.S. Tritenko
        Abakumov A.A., Ph.D.
        I read it, in short, it's like using the first GAZ-AA when transporting 3-hundred Spartans to the war with the Persians in the Iran-Iraq war ... Such a wild mixture. God forbid someone from the state drug control sees this in your hands ...
    4. +4
      27 October 2022 17: 30
      There is a popular children's book called Hannibal's Elephants. Author - Nemirovsky, historian. Claims that the elephants were local. I read many years ago. Liked.
      1. +4
        27 October 2022 17: 36
        Quote from Korsar4
        There is a popular children's book called Hannibal's Elephants. Author - Nemirovsky, historian. Claims that the elephants were local. I read many years ago. Liked.

        The historian claims, without giving a single confirmation, to his statements. The basis of all this opus, it was so, because I think so.
        1. +5
          27 October 2022 17: 50
          At a minimum, elephants are present on Carthaginian coins.
        2. +4
          27 October 2022 21: 52
          The historian claims, without giving a single confirmation, to his statements. The basis of all this opus, it was so, because I think so.

          At a minimum, reading the works of the Greeks, I met that the Seleucids exported "live tanks" from India, the latter even had graters on this soil with the Ptolemies. Carthage and the Numidians were cut off from this feeder, so they apparently had their own channels for the production of Elephanta. Given the number of the latter in the armies, "farms or firms" were local. Sometimes they even came to Egypt or to adventurers, the neurolemma of Pir or Hannibal Bark. Somewhere, I even met that the North African elephant was knocked out for his need in the arena. Moreover, the book was not about military history, but about domestic animals.
      2. 0
        11 December 2022 22: 39
        And on what dry cargo ship did he transport war elephants across the Mediterranean Sea from Carthage to Europe, or did he land on land through Ebipet, the Caucasus, "Kievan Rus", and again through the Alps to Rome?
        1. 0
          12 December 2022 01: 40
          According to the majority, through the Cottian Alps. Why was remembered by contemporaries.
    5. 0
      17 December 2022 02: 01
      So from India. On foot and by ship. For example, how did Hanibal bring them from Carthage to Rome? Also, by sea. And they were also bred. So 5-6 tribal females and a male can be brought even from China.
  12. +4
    27 October 2022 10: 50
    Well, where is the elephant on it? An elephant, or rather - elephants, with huge towers on their backs are depicted under the belly of Alexander's horse. After all, Alexander is more important!

    I suspect that the artist was so clumsily trying to depict depth.
    1. +4
      27 October 2022 10: 56
      I suspect that the artist was so clumsily trying to depict depth.

      The depth of the moment, Sergey? wink Greetings. No, he simply didn’t have a drawing paper of the required size, he had to save space “on elephants”. laughing
      1. +5
        27 October 2022 11: 00
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        "save on elephants"

        You can’t save on elephants, and you can’t save on cats, this will lead to such a result. hi
        1. +5
          27 October 2022 11: 04
          You can’t save on elephants, and you can’t save on cats, this will lead to such a result.

          You can’t save on cat litter, mine will immediately drop to the floor next to the tray from insulted feelings. request
          1. +6
            27 October 2022 11: 21
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            Don't skimp on cat litter

            And this is a violation of the constitutional rights of the cat and is subject to sanctions! laughing
            1. +5
              27 October 2022 11: 25
              And this is a violation of the constitutional rights of the cat and is subject to sanctions!

              Maybe heap a bunch, hairy dissident! request
        2. +6
          27 October 2022 13: 31
          save money, and you can’t use cats, it will lead to such a result.


          It all depends on the upbringing of the cat and the intelligence, as it were, of the owner. Yes

      2. +5
        27 October 2022 13: 27
        The merchant from whom the artist bought paper and paints was not called Whatman, but Lipman. laughing
  13. +9
    27 October 2022 10: 54
    The first image of an elephant known to us in Russia is a stone carving of St. George's Cathedral in Yuryev-Polsky - XIII century.

    I do not know, as for me, it's a very reliable image. The person who carved this elephant obviously did not do it from other people's words. There is an opinion that Prince Svyatoslav Vsevolodovich, the uncle of Alexander Nevsky, directly supervised the construction of the cathedral, but we do not know whether he is directly related to stone carving. It is quite possible that it has. smile
    But the elephants in the Front Chronicle are a whole herd. smile

    This is clearly some kind of biblical story, but a crowd of elephants attacking people dressed in the Slavic fashion of the XNUMXth century looks painfully unusual. smile
    1. +7
      27 October 2022 11: 03
      This is clearly some kind of biblical story, but a crowd of elephants attacking people dressed in the Slavic fashion of the XNUMXth century looks painfully unusual.

      It is only interesting where our ancestors took drawings of elephants for imitation from... We could get Western manuscripts with miniature images of elephants?
      Mikhail, returning to yesterday's theme of Old Slavonic speech. laughing Yesterday The Russian government has submitted to the State Duma a bill on the inadmissibility of the use of foreign words, with the exception of those that do not have commonly used analogues in the Russian language and are contained in standard dictionaries.

      In general, everything, no "aldente" - only "bad" laughing
      1. +8
        27 October 2022 11: 52
        As for the language, the eternal and inescapable is immediately remembered:
        A good place is coming along the amusement ground from the lists to the disgrace in wet shoes with a splay.

        Solving the problems of our culture must begin not with borrowings, oh, not with them ... smile
        And about elephants - the first known case of their appearance - under Ivan the Terrible, Sergei wrote below. But how did they know about elephants in the XNUMXth century, and even so reliably they were able to portray ... And why is he in a collar and in spots ... Elephant pox?
        1. +4
          27 October 2022 11: 55
          And why is he wearing a collar and stained... Elephant pox?

          Or is it a combat armor?
        2. +3
          27 October 2022 12: 13
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          .And why is he wearing a collar and stained... Elephant pox?

          For some reason I thought that this is how the sculptor wanted to depict wool? hi
          1. +4
            27 October 2022 12: 32
            And circles because curly? smile Some kind of elephantine? smile
            I'm thinking, maybe they copied the elephant from some other image? Maybe he was in a blanket in that image?
            Mystery, in a nutshell...
            1. +4
              27 October 2022 12: 35
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              I'm thinking, maybe they copied the elephant from some other image? Maybe he was in a blanket in that image?

              Probably somehow it happened: according to the principle "Fima sang" hi
              1. +4
                27 October 2022 15: 55
                "Fima sang"

                Returning to yesterday's conversation - which Thomas sang, Aquinas or Canterbury? laughing Ahhh, there is Fima - and I already mistook Foma for Foma. wassat
                1. +4
                  27 October 2022 15: 59
                  Quote: Pane Kohanku
                  which Thomas sang, Aquinas or Canterbury?

                  Not Foma, but Fima,
                  not Aquinas, but Kastorsky! laughing
                  1. +4
                    27 October 2022 16: 02
                    Not Foma, but Fima,
                    not Aquinas, but Kastorsky!

                    If Kastorsky, then not Fima, but Buba! laughing

        3. +1
          27 October 2022 13: 34
          .And why is he collared and spotted.. Elephant pox?


          Moth beat. sad
        4. +1
          28 October 2022 03: 23
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          As for the language, the eternal and inescapable is immediately remembered:
          A good place is coming along the amusement ground from the lists to the disgrace in wet shoes with a splay.

          Solving the problems of our culture must begin not with borrowings, oh, not with them ... smile
          And about elephants - the first known case of their appearance - under Ivan the Terrible, Sergei wrote below. But how did they know about elephants in the XNUMXth century, and even so reliably they were able to portray ... And why is he in a collar and in spots ... Elephant pox?


          Quote: Pan Kohanku
          And why is he wearing a collar and stained... Elephant pox?

          Or is it a combat armor?


          Perhaps these spots are wool and in front of us is not an elephant, but a mammoth!
          1. +2
            28 October 2022 08: 33
            A shabby mammoth, once the wool hangs in shreds. smile
            Judging by the tusks, this is precisely the elephant, and, more likely, the Indian one - the African tusks are longer.
    2. +6
      27 October 2022 11: 04
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      But the elephants in the Front Chronicle are a whole herd.

      Well, even more or less elephants are depicted, it can be worse. Probably Afanasy Nikitin advised, he personally saw:
      The Sultan left with 12 grand viziers. With them went 300 elephants, dressed in damask armor and bound towns (booths on the back of an elephant). On each elephant there are 6 people in armor with cannons and squeakers, and on the "great" elephant - 12 people. On each elephant are two large banners ("ensigns"). Huge swords weighing a centar are tied to the fangs of elephants, and three iron weights are attached to the “snouts” (trunks). A man in armor with a large iron hook for control is seated between the ears.
      hi
    3. +4
      27 October 2022 11: 29
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      but a crowd of elephants attacking people dressed in the Slavic fashion of the XNUMXth century looks painfully unusual

      By the way, Michael, they really met: I mean people in Slavic clothes of the 16th century and an elephant:
      The Grand Duke (Ivan Vasilyevich the Terrible) was presented with an elephant along with an Arab who looked after this elephant. The Arab received a large salary in Moscow. This was noticed by Russian hawkers, that is, dissolute people, drunkards who drink and [grain] play in taverns. For money, they secretly killed an Arab's wife. “This Arab was slandered and slandered by the Russians, along with his elephant, that it was as if the plague, which they did not even think about in Moscow, came from him and his elephant. Then the Arab and his elephant were exiled in disgrace to the settlement of Gorodetskaya. The Arab died there, and the Grand Duke sent a nobleman with an order to kill the elephant with the help of [peasants] from the surrounding plows and townspeople. The elephant stood [usually] in a shed, and around the shed was a tyn. An Arab was buried not far from him. Then the elephant broke through the tyn and lay down on the grave. There he was finished off; knocked out his fangs and delivered to the Grand Duke as proof that the elephant really died

      This is from Staden's work, but other foreign authors also mention the story of the elephant in Moscow. hi
      1. +7
        27 October 2022 11: 40
        This is from Staden's work, but other foreign authors also mention the story of the elephant in Moscow.

        Fantastic ... That's what I did not expect, I did not expect. Thought it was news from Panorama. It is a pity for the Arab, his wife and the elephant... It turns out that Grozny had a bad attitude not only to the inventors of the hang glider.
        1. +5
          27 October 2022 11: 44
          Quote: Pane Kohanku
          Fantastic ... That's what I did not expect, I did not expect.

          Here, of course, one must be very careful about Staden's evidence - he was still a "storyteller". But there really was an elephant in Moscow, and lions, by the way, too. hi
      2. +7
        27 October 2022 11: 43
        I also heard the story about the elephant of Ivan the Terrible, so yes, in the Facial Vault the elephants could be written literally from nature. I just like the plot of the picture itself - a herd of elephants tramples the Slavic army. smile
        It is strange that Fomenko, on the basis of this miniature, did not deduce something like “Russia is the birthplace of elephants”, or did not write a voluminous book “The War Elephants of Tartaria”, where it is irrefutably proved that the Russian Cossacks before the Flood, without straining, dissected on elephants from Ceylon to Labrador, carrying the border guard. laughing
        The elephant at St. George's Cathedral is much more interesting ...
        1. +5
          27 October 2022 11: 48
          It is strange that Fomenko, on the basis of this miniature, did not deduce something like “Russia is the birthplace of elephants”, or did not write a voluminous book “The War Elephants of Tartaria”, where it is irrefutably proved that the Russian Cossacks before the Flood, without straining, dissected on elephants from Ceylon to Labrador, carrying the border guard.

          The shield on the gates of Constantinople was also smeared from an elephant, in the sense, nailed? wink

          I just like the plot of the picture itself - a herd of elephants tramples the Slavic army.

          EMNIP, the Mongols in our miniatures also look like Russian warriors? What they saw before their eyes, they drew.
          In Staraya Russa, in the museum of the novel The Brothers Karamazov, one of the rooms is a recreated setting of the then tavern. And on the wall there is a splint depicting an episode of the Russian-Turkish war of 1877-78, namely, the attack of our mine boats on Turkish ships. The question is that the artist depicted these boats .. wheeled! Moreover, some fantastic design. That is, apparently, the popular print was painted by a person who was very far from navigation and shipping in general, and even who obviously did not live on the Volga, perhaps he had never even seen a steamer. And he probably drew from someone's words. drinks
          1. +7
            27 October 2022 12: 28
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            Shield on the gates of Tsargrad

            I don’t remember who Fomenko is there - Prophetic Oleg is Cleopatra or vice versa. Apparently, after all, Oleg was a woman, because if it were the other way around, Caesar and Antony would certainly have suspected something ... Or not? wink
            And then there is the mysterious snake that caused the death of Oleg (Cleopatra)... Wasn't this one-eyed snake? Or was it a trunk?
            laughing
            1. +5
              27 October 2022 12: 30
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              I don’t remember who Fomenko is there - Prophetic Oleg is Cleopatra or vice versa. Apparently, after all, Oleg was a woman, because if it were the other way around, Caesar and Antony would certainly have suspected something ... Or not? wink
              And then there is the mysterious snake that caused the death of Oleg (Cleopatra)... Wasn't this one-eyed snake? Or was it a trunk?
              laughing

              My brain is spinning.... laughing
              1. +7
                27 October 2022 12: 34
                Me too. From this we can draw an encouraging conclusion - there are brains.
                1. +6
                  27 October 2022 13: 46
                  Me too. From this we can draw an encouraging conclusion - there are brains.

                  good good good good good drinks drinks drinks laughing
                  Shine! There are no words to appreciate it!!!
              2. +4
                27 October 2022 12: 38
                My brain is spinning....

                Yes, he can... Professional! But even the tangerines have not yet ripened ... lol
            2. +5
              27 October 2022 12: 35
              Prophetic Oleg is Cleopatra or vice versa

              With such a "Prophetic Oleg" I would ... hmm ... chat much more willingly than with the brutal leader of the Varangians. feel



              And then there is the mysterious snake that caused the death of Oleg (Cleopatra)... Wasn't this one-eyed snake? Or was it a trunk?

              It was a trunk. An ancient Russian wild elephant, a population of the Central Black Earth region, tusks with torn chain mail hanging on them were found in Penza. Shpakovsky will confirm. laughing
              1. +4
                27 October 2022 12: 38
                Quote: Pane Kohanku
                With such a Prophetic Oleg, I would have chatted much more willingly than with the leader of the Varangians.

                I see that Monica Bellucci is in trend today!
                Decent choice, support! drinks
                1. +4
                  27 October 2022 12: 43
                  I see that Monica Bellucci is in trend today!

                  Sergei Corsair mentioned Sophia Loren up the branch, and Monica somehow .. is more pleasing to the eye ... winked (and licked!) laughing
                  Decent choice, support!

                  Vincent Cassel also supports! At least he supported. drinks
                  1. +4
                    27 October 2022 17: 44
                    We started with elephants. What did they switch to? Correctly.
                    And if we went by personalities, then one cannot help but recall Audrey Hepburn. In foreign cinema, he is not savvy, but with her almost every film is a phenomenon.
                    1. +3
                      27 October 2022 18: 24
                      We started with elephants. What did they switch to?
                      Well, at least they almost didn’t dock (o) to the seals ...
                      1. +2
                        27 October 2022 18: 41
                        Elephants are useful animals ... not like cats
                      2. +3
                        27 October 2022 18: 51
                        A little different, but okay...
                        "When we have a bigger apartment, we will get an elephant" (C)
                      3. +3
                        27 October 2022 19: 47
                        And it so happened that one fine morning, shortly before the equinox, this very Baby Elephant - annoying and pestering - asked about one such thing that no one had ever asked before. He asked:
                        What does Crocodile eat for dinner?
                      4. +3
                        27 October 2022 20: 02
                        Purely African affairs: where there are hippos
                        Well, crocdiles don't survive. The hippopotamus is the most dangerous animal, after the leopard, in Africa.
                      5. +3
                        27 October 2022 20: 23
                        Eskimo sitting on an elephant
                        Fun and fabulous at the same time.
                        He wanders through the snow in the moonlight,
                        It's waking up on the sand.

                        But an elephant sat on an Eskimo
                        Scary. He weighs so many tons
                        Even if he is still an elephant.
                      6. +4
                        27 October 2022 20: 07
                        "When we have a bigger apartment, we will get an elephant"

                        I don’t have enough filler for an elephant. stop Or build a hangar just outside the city. what I have a cat in the apartment is difficult to fit - a lot of wool, rude in addition ... laughing Vaughn, he went to demand food from me - he speaks all languages. Yes In general, he is wonderful.
                        That's how the day before yesterday I met from work, how they came in. The spitting image of Associate Professor from "Gentlemen of Fortune". Yes

                        Did the figs come? I slept here. Give it up!

                      7. +4
                        27 October 2022 20: 24
                        As the well-known anecdote says: “You won’t sell an elephant with such a mood.”
                      8. +3
                        27 October 2022 20: 40
                        As the well-known anecdote says: “You won’t sell an elephant with such a mood.”

                        I'm not even selling a cat. After they look at him, potential buyers will understand that in two days they will return the arrogant fat man, and they will also pay money! laughing By the way, the hairy zhrun really loves Anton our minstrel. drinks
                      9. +3
                        28 October 2022 04: 11
                        speaks all languages.
                        Not talking. A pet recognizes the sounds and gestures of the language environment in which it grew up. You're a shitty zoopsychologist.
                      10. +2
                        28 October 2022 08: 54
                        You're a shitty zoopsychologist.

                        But you are wonderful. And not only. Just Yuri Loza. laughing
                      11. +2
                        28 October 2022 10: 08
                        My little raft
                        Woven from cats and dogs...
                      12. +2
                        28 October 2022 10: 29
                        Woven from cats and dogs

                        That's not what I meant, but oh well. You become a snob and a nudist. laughing
                    2. +4
                      27 October 2022 20: 34
                      Quote from Korsar4
                      . What did they switch to?

                      The path from war elephants to Audrey Hepburn was long and difficult. Winding. But there are no such obstacles that the brave pathfinders of the historical * gang * would not overcome. And in general. * We are going to the emerald city on a difficult road ... * (c) laughing
                      Good evening Sergey!
                      1. +3
                        27 October 2022 21: 10
                        Good evening, Seryozha! The road is one. The directions are similar.
              2. +5
                27 October 2022 13: 47
                No, the topic of boobs is not expressed, where is she up to Sofka. negative
                1. +4
                  27 October 2022 13: 54
                  No, the topic of boobs is not expressed, where is she up to Sofka.

                  If I express this topic on the forum, the comment will rightly be erased. stop For not figs! am
                2. +4
                  27 October 2022 14: 02
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  No, the topic of boobs is not expressed, where is she up to Sofka.

                  There was such a temptation, but 1 warning is already there. hi
                  1. +6
                    27 October 2022 14: 43
                    There was such a temptation, but 1 warning is already there.

                    I don't want to annoy the administration either.
                    To me - so Monica is more interesting. But Uncle Kostya and I have different generations! wink drinks
                    1. +2
                      27 October 2022 22: 26
                      But Uncle Kostya and I have different generations!


                      And Monica and Sofka have different boobs. laughing
                  2. +7
                    27 October 2022 14: 49
                    Quote: Mihaylov
                    1 warning is already there.

                    "God, what a trifle ...." (c)
                    Bellucci is good. And Sophia Loren is good. good
                    1. +4
                      27 October 2022 15: 57
                      Bellucci is good. And Sophia Loren is good.

                      Sergey, And live well, and life is good! drinks

                      1. +4
                        27 October 2022 16: 08
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        And to live well, and life is good!

                        Nicholas, isn't it?

                        We must appreciate every moment of her, as Jack Dawson, aka Leo, said. And I agree with him. bully
                      2. +4
                        27 October 2022 17: 53
                        We must appreciate every moment of her, as Jack Dawson, aka Leo, said. And I agree with him.
                      3. +3
                        27 October 2022 18: 37
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        agree

                        To the best of my ability. And based on the circumstances.
                        Good evening Anton!
                        * Orders * no more? If anything, write.
                      4. +2
                        27 October 2022 18: 44
                        Hello, Sergey!
                        Unfortunately, everything you sent turned out to be trial versions. But I found a way.
                      5. +2
                        27 October 2022 20: 13
                        But I found a way.

                        Did you sign up for erotic massage training courses, as I advised you? belay Oh wow, congratulations! drinks
                      6. +2
                        28 October 2022 04: 17
                        No, I just asked the person "over the hill" to throw me off.
                  3. +3
                    27 October 2022 22: 27
                    I had six, now four and nothing - I live. drinks
          2. +3
            27 October 2022 12: 31
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            Moreover, some fantastic design.

            Jules Verne must have read... hi
            1. +3
              27 October 2022 12: 39
              Jules Verne must have read...

              It is unlikely that he managed to publish Robur before that ...what Have you been to this museum, Sergey?
              1. +3
                27 October 2022 12: 41
                Quote: Pane Kohanku
                Have you been to this museum, Sergey?

                No, they didn’t go into this one, is it the one on the embankment, not far from Dostoevsky’s house?
                1. +4
                  27 October 2022 12: 49
                  No, they didn’t go into this one, is it the one on the embankment, not far from Dostoevsky’s house?

                  Yes, closer to the bridge. I must say that it is also interesting. drinks
                  In Staraya Russa, I am somewhat struck by the private sector on this embankment. Apparently, the most trump Buratino places, like we have near Sestroretsk. The mansions have been reclaimed... and most of them have not been finished, work is not being done, and there is no light...
                  1. +3
                    27 October 2022 12: 52
                    Quote: Pane Kohanku
                    The mansions have been reclaimed... and most of them have not been finished, work is not being done, and there is no light...

                    They also noticed, apparently, the owners went to "places not so remote."
                    1. +4
                      27 October 2022 13: 06
                      They also noticed, apparently, the owners went to "places not so remote."

                      Here it is, or something like that. By the way, some of these houses are absolutely tasteless.
                      And under Fyodor Mikhailovich, this site itself would have been an island. The canal started upstream from his house, then went behind the church of St. Mina, then behind Georgievskaya (there she still remained, the Malashka River), and then back to Polist. Then it was an island!
                      1. +2
                        27 October 2022 13: 59
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        Then it was an island!

                        Did not know about it hi
                      2. +2
                        27 October 2022 14: 38
                        Did not know about it

                        I saw a map somewhere ... perhaps in a guidebook.
          3. +1
            11 December 2022 22: 46
            It is on such popular prints that historians write textbooks for children ...
            More than half a century ago, teachers constantly told me: "Don't ask stupid questions." Because they couldn't answer. I still ask such questions, I'm not corrosive, BUT I WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING! That's my motto for life.
        2. +5
          27 October 2022 13: 39
          It is strange that Fomenko, on the basis of this miniature, did not deduce something like "Russia is the birthplace of elephants", or did not write a voluminous book "The War Elephants of Tartaria",

          He still cannot surpass Gospolitizdat with his three-volume book "The Elephant in the Memoirs of the Old Bolsheviks who personally knew Vladimir Ilyich Lenin." bully
          1. +5
            27 October 2022 16: 12
            Quote: Sea Cat
            He still cannot surpass Gospolitizdat with his three-volume book "The Elephant in the Memoirs of the Old Bolsheviks who personally knew Vladimir Ilyich Lenin."

            L.D. Trotsky*The role of the elephant in the world revolution.*
            bully
            1. +4
              27 October 2022 18: 27
              "The elephant question ruined the white movement, it almost ruined the red movement." (A. I. Denikin)
              1. +4
                27 October 2022 19: 59
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                ." (A. I. Denikin)

                * looking at the events that took place then, I can confidently state that it was precisely the lack of war elephants that was the root cause for which we left the Crimea. Our Western allies, who promised the White movement a continuous supply of elephants, simply deceived us. *
                From the memoirs of Pyotr Nikolaevich Wrangel. bully
            2. +1
              27 October 2022 22: 44
              Hmmm ... it's hard to kill an elephant with an ice pick. wink
              1. 0
                11 December 2022 22: 48
                And the ancient people chopped them with a spear with a stone tip with might and main for minced meat ...
                1. +1
                  12 December 2022 11: 56
                  Yeah, just five minutes and serve it on the table. laughing
    4. 0
      27 October 2022 11: 38
      Elephants are kind of like dogs.
      The artist does not know the elephants, but tries to convey how he was seen
    5. +1
      27 October 2022 13: 27
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      I just like the plot of the picture itself - a herd of elephants tramples the Slavic army.

      In the Battle of Khotyn in 1621 it was the opposite.
  14. +1
    27 October 2022 11: 31
    Good day to all.
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the miniatures: elephants are cool. There was something to complain about
    1. +2
      27 October 2022 14: 57
      Glad you liked it. I was also interested in working on this topic.
  15. +5
    27 October 2022 13: 45
    How it looked, I have little idea.

    Here in this book these moments are described in detail.

    And it could look like in this photo. The British worked out the use of elephants in artillery in those parts back in the First World War.

  16. +2
    27 October 2022 21: 44
    Korsar4 (Sergei), and Audrey could play Cleopatra, because preliminary negotiations were held, but Elizabeth Taylor got the main role in the film.
  17. 0
    29 October 2022 17: 41
    A useless animal, once it can and will work against those who have not seen them, and then fire and elephants will rush on their own.
    1. 0
      11 December 2022 22: 51
      Amazing, the first intelligent statement. My respects, I bow my head
  18. 0
    3 November 2022 08: 17
    Thanks to the author of the article, very interesting and informative
  19. 0
    11 December 2022 22: 22
    I haven't read the comments yet. This is later.
    For some reason, the author did not even talk about Hannibal's war elephants and his passage through the Alps. Good tale from historians.
    The elephant has a gentle psyche, a loud cry, noise unbalances the elephant. Look at modern elephants for walking tourists in India, cases of violation of the psyche of an elephant, in the aftermath of which there are also deaths of people.
    And war is not a peaceful gathering around a fire, but the roar of battle pipes, the clang of weapons, screams, firearms - there is no smell of silence.
  20. 0
    27 December 2022 11: 42
    So that's what you are - oliphants!
    (I carry useless information)
  21. +1
    17 January 2023 16: 39
    Ancient History before Caesar, 1325-1350, which was written in Naples, Italy and is now in the British Library, London.

    Histoire ancienne jusqu'à Cesar (Histoire universelle)
    Origin France, N.
    Date 2nd half of the 13th century
    French language
    Script Gothic
    Decoration One historiated initial with a full border in colors with gold with added d'Averton coat of arms (f. 4). 36 miniatures in two, three or four parts in colors on gold grounds. 7 historiated initials in colors with gold. Three added coats of arms in grey, red and gold (ff. 45, 112, 238). An added pen drawing of a city (f. 57). Numerous initials in red or blue with pen-flourishing in both colors. Sections in red.
    Dimensions in mm 320 x 235 (230 x 170) in two columns
    Official foliation ff. 238 (ff. 1 and 2 are paper flyeaves + 5 unfoliated paper flyeaves at the beginning and 4 at the end)
    Form Parchment codex
    Binding BM/BL in-house
    Provenance Jean or Jehan d'Averton: an inscription in fifteenth-century hand on f. 238v, 'Ce livre est a Jehan Daverton', perhaps Jean d'Averton, Seigneur de Belin, of Maine, who was living in the year 1456; additions were made to the border and a rubric was added on f. 1, along with the coat of arms of d'Averton of Maine, de geules a trois jumelles d'argent (with a lion in the upper left corner) on ff. 1, 45, 112, and 238.
    A 16th-century inscription, 'De Couldreau' (f. 3).
    Purchased from the British Museum from Messrs Boone, 12th November 1853: a note on f. [v].

    And who is this "Mister Boone" ???
    Where did he get his goods, which he sold to the British Museum?

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"