Military Review

He was the first bomber able to escape from fighters - SB (USSR)

175
Autumn 1936 of the year. Republican bomber aircraft appeared in the Spanish sky. They were intercepted by fighters - German Messerschmitts and Spanish Fiats. Few could have imagined that the bombers, having gained speed, would leave the enemy. History I have not yet known such a case, and this put an end to the complete supremacy of the fighters in the sky. Republican bomber planes were Soviet aircraft developed by the Tupolev Design Bureau and called the SB - a high-speed bomber.

He was the first bomber able to escape from fighters - SB (USSR)


According to the task assigned to the Soviet designers, it becomes clear that the future bomber will be an unusual machine - the number in 330 km / h for the speed of the new machine was spelled out in the TTZ, while at that time the maximum speed of the aircraft was in 270 km / h ( 1933 year). It is possible to understand military pilots - for any aircraft, high movement speed in combat is the most important component, and for overloaded bomber aircraft - in general, the ultimate dream.

A high-speed bomber was planned by a front-line bomber, for joint operations with other types of army troops. Since bombers could not always accompany cover aircraft, they had to become a full-fledged combat air unit — perform basic missions, defend themselves with established machine-gun armaments and, if necessary, escape from the enemy at high speed.

When approaching the assignment, modern capabilities of the Soviet aircraft industry were evaluated, so it was not by chance that the famous aircraft designer A. Arkhangelsky was instructed to develop a new high-speed bomber. It was he who headed the slightly earlier project of a monoplane fighter in a twin-engine version, which had a high speed of flight.

The high-speed bomber was designed according to the scheme of a self-supporting monoplane, covered with a smooth skin and provided with retractable landing gear. The first prototype was ready in the 1934 year, and in early October it first rises into the sky. The two air-cooled M-25 engines installed were able to accelerate the bomber to 325 km / h. And in early December, the second prototype rises to the sky, on which the more powerful M-100 motors are already installed. On tests, the bomber reached a speed of 424 km / h at an altitude of about 4 kilometers. The maximum lifting height of the bomber was almost 10 kilometers.



The SB bomber reaching high speeds brought the first, previously unknown problems called flutter. The theory of a new type of vibration was urgently developed, which allowed many Soviet aircraft to avoid difficulties in the future. Bomber finalized according to new calculations. This high-speed bomber and was put into mass production.

It was the serial SSs that were delivered to the Republican Air Force, they changed the whole theory of the combat use of bombers, and made the enemies shudder at the sounds made by the bombers in the sky. Soviet designers and engineers closely followed the combat use of the bombers, and made changes or modified the modifications of the Security Council. Production of the Security Council and its modifications continued until the middle of 1941 year.

1937 year. The SS receives enhanced M-103 engines and sets a world record for lifting cargo to a height - one ton of cargo was lifted to a height of 12.24 km.

1938 year. Serial bomber SB start producing engines M-103. Increased bomber payload to one and a half tons. In addition, the bombers get the screws with variable pitch, reduce the overall aerodynamic resistance of the bomber, using tunnel radiators in cooling engines. The maximum SB speed increases and is 450 km / h.

Germany starts fighting and victoriously walks across Europe. Soviet designers are tasked with creating a front-line combat bomber — a diving bomber. A bomber capable of delivering accurate bomb strikes at high speeds was required. The new modification of the Security Council with the new engines VK-105 is called AP-2. He had a speed of up to 480 km / h and climbed to a height of 10 kilometers.



At the end of the 1930 — ies, for the first time, an aircraft in the Soviet Union appeared that had an unconventional solution — a nose-landing gear with a wheel. This scheme of the aircraft landing gear later became standard for the following aircraft. The SB bomber became famous not only for being the first, but also for the fact that many design solutions, units and capabilities began to be used on almost all of the following aircraft:
- clean aerodynamic shape;
- Maximum compression of the fuselage;
- tight installation of equipment;
- smooth and lightweight dural lining;
- the use of very durable aluminum alloys;
- the use of alloy steel;
- chassis cleaning type;
- Chassis and wing hydraulics;
- screw adjustable pitch.



Modifications of the bomber came out systematically and differed mainly installed engines and their nosing, standard armament and onboard equipment. The last of the SB modifications, the Ap 2, was a deeply upgraded high-speed bomber that was able to bomb at high speeds in a pick. The total number of serial bombers of the SB series is the 6831 aircraft.

Combat use:
The SB was used in battles on the territory of Spain, China, Lake Hassan, at Khalkhin-Gol, Western Ukraine, Bessarabia, Belarus and Finland. The SBs were handed over to Czechoslovakia and were issued there under a license; they were used as part of the Bulgarian and even Finland air forces (trophy).

At the beginning of the Second World War, the bombers were already outdated; the Pe-2 went to replace them. However, by the beginning of the fighting, the SAT and modifications accounted for more than 70 percent of all front-line bombers. The approximate number of all modifications of the Security Council in the ranks of the Soviet Air Force mid-1941 year - 3.5 thousands of aircraft. They were armed with 27 regiments that ensure the security of the western border of the Soviet Union. In the early days of the war, about 1200-1300 bomber SB series were lost.



In 1943, the SB bombers began to be systematically replaced by aircraft with the best characteristics of the Pe-2 and supplied by the allies Mitchells and Boston. In 1944, they were joined by the Tu-2. SB, withdrawn from service, but not completely retired, and used as a sufficiently high-speed transport carriers and communication aircraft.

Key Features:
- Length - 12.1 meters;
- wing - 22 meter;
- weight - 7.8 tons;
- body armor - 9mm armor plate for the pilot;
- power - 2 engine M-103 power 960 hp;
- speed up to 450 km / h;
- High-altitude ceiling up to 10.5 kilometers;
- payload standard / max - 0.5 / 1.5 tons;
- mounted weapons - 4 machine gun ShKAS caliber 7.62mm;
- range to 2.3 thousands of kilometers.


Information sources:
http://www.migavia.com/tupolev/ant-40.html
http://technicamolodezhi.ru/rubriki_tm/241/1742
http://crimso.msk.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft20867.htm
Author:
175 comments
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  1. Krilion
    Krilion 26 October 2012 08: 19
    0
    widely represented in an excellent Russian-made game - War Thuner: World Of Planes ... the game is free, there is a global beta test ...
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 26 October 2012 09: 18
      +4
      Quote: n
      Autumn of 1936. Republican bomber planes appeared in the Spanish sky. Fighter jets — German Messerschmitts and Spanish Fiats — came to intercept them.


      About Spain

      SB bombers performed their first combat mission on October 28, 1936.

      (the first Bf.109B-1 left the assembly line of Augsburg in February 1937)

      And the first pre-production Bf.109-V3 came to Spain in 1936 shortly before the New Year, and entered the battle of V3 and V4 at the end of January 1937, it was on V3 that Trautloft painted his famous Green Ass,
      .

      By the way, the fact that SB-2 "Katyusha" easily left the FIAT GR.32. and Heinkel, going out on a mission with a full bomb load and unaccompanied, was really unusual, but the Western world, biting its lip, was silent, and only after copying and trying our concept on Mosquito declared it revolutionary

      Interesting fact. The German pocket battleship “Deutschland” hung in the territorial waters of Spain on May 29, 1937. A pair of SB worked on it, perhaps by mistake, maybe they trained. As a result of a direct hit by aerial bombs, the battleship was seriously damaged.
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 26 October 2012 10: 48
        0
        They didn’t leave very long, so counting on speed for a bomber is somewhat naive ...
        Mosquito is a completely separate story, not related here, the same Junkers easily left the same Ishakov a little later ...
        But it seems that it was our SB that sank the Japanese aircraft carrier off the coast of China ...
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 26 October 2012 12: 10
          +1
          Quote: Brother Sarich
          They didn’t leave very long,


          U-88 is also not a topic here, but he also left Spitfires. And Mosquito is the concept of a high-speed bomber, what is separate here?
        2. Su24
          Su24 26 October 2012 21: 11
          -1
          What kind of Japanese aircraft carrier is this ?? It is possible in more detail.
          1. Brother Sarych
            Brother Sarych 26 October 2012 21: 15
            0
            Light aircraft carrier Yamato-Maru, well-known Khryukin and Polynin bombed ...
            1. Kibb
              Kibb 26 October 2012 22: 52
              +1
              Extremely slippery moment. First Khryukin OR Wormwood. Secondly, Japanese army aircraft carriers appeared later. Thirdly, it is difficult to consider army aircraft carriers as aircraft carriers - it is more likely air transport, although during the war they tried to use them as escort ships.
              For the rest I don’t understand why the Security Council could not sink a similar mara with luck, the question is not in the nomenclature of bombs - that would be enough for a couple of hundred
      2. Civil
        Civil 26 October 2012 11: 28
        0
        Attention! You do not have permission to view hidden text.


        but it became clear that they were out of date, after the first days of the war ...
      3. Kaa
        Kaa 26 October 2012 14: 29
        +1
        Quote: Vadivak
        As a result of a direct hit by air bombs, the battleship received serious damage.

        In a battered book of Soviet times "Password-Spain!" An episode is described of how our pilots on the SB finished off the Francoist heavy cruiser Baleares torpedoed by the Republican destroyers on March 6, 1938, plus a British destroyer that approached the sinking ship fell under distribution. Now about this (maybe because of political correctness,) they are somehow silent.
        In addition, the Ar-2 was inferior in combat effectiveness to the Pe-2 only in speed, which is described in detail on the Alternative History website, exceeding in bomb load. Unjustly forgotten plane.
        1. Gamdlislyam
          Gamdlislyam 26 October 2012 21: 20
          0
          Kaa
          In addition, the Ar-2 was inferior in combat effectiveness to the Pe-2 only in speed, which is described in detail on the Alternative History website, exceeding in bomb load. Unjustly forgotten plane.

          Dear colleague, Ar-2 is the same SB-2, but only slightly modernized. More powerful M-105 engines were delivered. The nose of the aircraft is made according to the Henkel type. In what it undoubtedly exceeded the Pe-2, it is in take-off and landing properties. No wonder he was in training schools throughout the war.
          But they did not teach him to dive, and the flight crew was not trained. He took a bomb load of up to 1500 kg, only a certain caliber of bombs. With this load, the flight range was small, as was the flight speed. Defensive weapons were much weaker than those of the Pawn. I am silent about maneuverability (Ar-2 (SB-2) flew like an iron). There were no intercoms on the plane. There was only a light alarm of three bulbs. The plane has already outlived itself, but because it was released a little more than a hundred and a half. Yes, and they were mostly lost in the first months of the war.
          From the second half of 1942, the remaining SB-2 were used mainly as night bombers.
      4. Kibb
        Kibb 26 October 2012 22: 54
        0
        Quote: Vadivak
        As a result of direct hit by aerial bombs battleship received serious damage.

        Oh no, Vadim, to dissemble
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 01
          0
          Yamatomaru destroyed a group of 12 bombers in February 1938
  2. Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 26 October 2012 13: 45
    +2
    In my opinion, the Security Council was immediately out of date at the beginning of the war solely due to improper use!
    Blenheim also left the fighters, he appeared much earlier than Mosquito, this idea was in the air, but only his fate was not very bright ...
    Money spent on achieving speed to the detriment of other fighting qualities can be considered wasted - very soon the speed becomes insufficient, and there were no other advantages planned ...
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 26 October 2012 14: 11
      +3
      Quote: Brother Sarich
      he appeared much earlier Mosquito,

      I agree, but later the Security Council, priority for the USSR
      1. Kibb
        Kibb 26 October 2012 22: 59
        +1
        Mokito is out of place IMHO, and yes, priority for the USSR, if not cool. And in general it’s not so outdated to the beginning of the Second World War (in comparison with Not 111, it is quite comparable in terms of characteristics), it’s just an eternal problem - the motor. And of course, tactics
  3. alex86
    alex86 26 October 2012 19: 30
    0
    I respect the work of the designers, but there is some question about glazing the front of the fuselage - the coaxial machine gun fires forward with a certain vertical angle, so why the entire front hemisphere was glazed (although from the point of view of protection - it makes no difference, booking only the back of the pilot's seat) .
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 26 October 2012 19: 45
      +2
      Quote: alex86
      so why was the entire front hemisphere glazed


      Well, the bomber, after all, the location wasn’t here with the eyes and the goal was found
  4. Alex 241
    Alex 241 26 October 2012 19: 59
    0
    Actually, the navigator’s cabin was located in front., Hence the continuous glazing.
  5. ESCANDER
    ESCANDER 26 October 2012 20: 04
    0
    Mosquito is an English piece of wood.
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 26 October 2012 20: 08
      0
      Our planes of the Second World War were made of deltodwood.
      1. Alf
        Alf 26 October 2012 23: 19
        0
        The SB was all-metal, and only LAGG-1, -3 was made from delta wood. The resins that were impregnated with wood to turn it into a delta were imported, so shortly after the outbreak of the war, interruptions in the supply of these resins began and LAGGs had to be released from ordinary plywood.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 25
          +1
          For which LAGG was sometimes called a varnished guaranteed coffin.
    2. DIMS
      DIMS 26 October 2012 20: 28
      0
      "Mosquito" beautiful plane
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 26 October 2012 20: 32
        0
        The lowest losses in the conduct of hostilities, 16 vehicles per 1000 sorties, which is explained by high flight performance.
        1. DIMS
          DIMS 26 October 2012 20: 46
          0
          Not only because of this. They did not participate directly in the raids, they simply marked incendiary and lighting targets before the main wave.
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 26 October 2012 20: 50
            0
            Not only Dim + intelligence, they sniffed gunpowder when they raided Cologne.
            1. DIMS
              DIMS 26 October 2012 21: 15
              0
              Come on, compare them with the same "Lancaster" or "fortress".

              By the way, I read Lena Dayton's "Bomber" If not, I advise. Not "Military pilot", but still
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 26 October 2012 21: 24
                0
                I read it as a cadet. Before the holes were erased.
                1. DIMS
                  DIMS 26 October 2012 21: 32
                  0
                  The book about the integrity of the war. And about the price of the error.
                  1. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 26 October 2012 21: 35
                    0
                    If you haven’t read, read CLEAR 22
      2. Bosk
        Bosk 27 October 2012 14: 42
        0
        The Tu-2 wakes up better than Mosquito, I do not mean the serial Tu-2, but the pre-production one, with an uncircumcised engine.
  6. Forget
    Forget 26 October 2012 20: 12
    0
    but I like such airplanes!
  7. Alex 241
    Alex 241 26 October 2012 20: 16
    0
    Incredibly beautiful aircraft, produced under license in Czechoslovakia, and even was in service with the Lufwaffe.
    1. DIMS
      DIMS 26 October 2012 20: 36
      +1
      And purely aesthetically, I like "Beaufighter", "Airacobra" and "Mosquito". Well, as the pinnacle of beauty, "Lighting", on which Exupery died and the "Mustang" of the last issues.
      And ours are working horses, not beautiful, but pulling a war cart abruptly than any Oryol trotter. Collected by women, old people and children in unheated workshops outside the Urals.

      Welcome
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 26 October 2012 20: 39
        0
        r-51 Mustang is recognized as one of the most beautiful aircraft in the 17th in this series. Of my personally I like the aircraft of the La family.
        1. DIMS
          DIMS 26 October 2012 20: 51
          +1
          They say that the Tu-22 was recognized as the most beautiful aircraft of all time.

          Ours began to think about beauty only after World War II, when there was enough time for this.
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 26 October 2012 20: 54
            0
            Let’s agree, our planes from the time of the Second World War are all beautiful from an aesthetic point of view, there is an opinion in aviation: A beautiful plane, it flies beautifully.
            1. DIMS
              DIMS 26 October 2012 21: 08
              0
              Well, compare them with "Lighting" or "Mustang".

              Really airplanes of really warring countries where industry worked on the limitare not so pretty. Remember the USSR, Japan, Germany. Remember in the end England during the "Battle of Britain" - "Spitfire" is not handsome, but "Hurricane" in general
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 26 October 2012 21: 10
                0
                Well, Dim, I don’t know, Spitfire is a beautiful car ..... We just argue about preferences, it's a matter of taste.
              2. Brother Sarych
                Brother Sarych 26 October 2012 21: 18
                0
                Is Spitfire not handsome? A uniform freak Lightning has become handsome? Yes, you, my friend, aesthetics, as I look ...
                Here is Hurricane - definitely, he was flying badly ...
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 26 October 2012 21: 25
                  0
                  Brother we will not argue about tastes and preferences, to each his own, Layting is beautiful in his own way.
                2. DIMS
                  DIMS 26 October 2012 21: 31
                  0
                  About "Lighting" - maybe I'm prejudiced
          2. Alex 241
            Alex 241 26 October 2012 22: 01
            +1
            TO22, really beautiful
            1. DIMS
              DIMS 26 October 2012 22: 06
              +2
              They say this is the opinion of the Americans. I don’t know, their patriotism usually doesn’t allow them to think normally. But really, is there a prettier airplane in the history of aviation?
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 26 October 2012 22: 08
                0
                Only the beginning of fate for this aircraft was difficult.
                1. DIMS
                  DIMS 26 October 2012 22: 16
                  +1
                  His whole fate is hard. But handsome, this cannot be taken away
                  1. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 26 October 2012 22: 19
                    0
                    Dim ++++++++++++ soldier
            2. Alex
              Alex 20 December 2013 21: 51
              +2
              Quote: Alex 241
              TO22, really beautiful
              Especially this characteristic "Tupolev nose" - a kind of sarcastic smile of a shark wink
    2. Gamdlislyam
      Gamdlislyam 26 October 2012 21: 27
      0
      The Germans used the planes captured in Czechoslovakia in aviation schools as training ones. In the Luftwaffe combat units they were not.
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 26 October 2012 21: 33
        0
        Plus as target towers
        1. DIMS
          DIMS 26 October 2012 21: 36
          0
          It seems that the Finns still had it. If the memory does not change.
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 26 October 2012 21: 40
            0
            Dim does not change, you are right as always.
  8. Alex 241
    Alex 241 26 October 2012 21: 05
    0
    Dim found for you, enjoy
    1. DIMS
      DIMS 26 October 2012 21: 10
      0
      Exupery had unpainted, the color of aluminum.

      By the way, a strange picture, like by the time of its creation the American identification marks had already changed
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 26 October 2012 21: 15
        0
        Dim Sum is the US Air Corps emblem
      2. Alf
        Alf 26 October 2012 22: 50
        +1
        That's right, this instance is a P-38E 1941 with a pre-war model of the 1934 OZ, the red circle was removed on May 15, 1942 due to numerous errors (mistaken for Japanese because of the red circle), and the American OZ changed to a circle with red ears in June 1943, then in September 1943 and until the end of the war, the ears turned blue.
        1. DIMS
          DIMS 26 October 2012 23: 11
          0
          Thanks for the information.
  9. Alex 241
    Alex 241 26 October 2012 21: 12
    0
    Here is the dim sum
    1. DIMS
      DIMS 26 October 2012 21: 22
      0
      Damn it, Alex, don't you realize that I know what the Spitfire looks like? When I was still a schoolboy, I glued the models, Dad taught them.
    2. Alf
      Alf 26 October 2012 23: 00
      +1
      A rather rare modification of the Spita-Mk-16, and in the low-altitude version with shortened wingtips. 604 division of the metropolis.
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 03
        +1
        This option was also delivered to us, though in small quantities.
        1. Alf
          Alf 26 October 2012 23: 10
          +1
          MK-5, MK-8 were supplied to the Soviet Union. We had no other Spits.
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 12
            +1
            There were low-altitude, if not mistaken 34 aircraft.
            1. Alf
              Alf 26 October 2012 23: 24
              0
              We had low-altitude MK-8. The difference is only in the teardrop-shaped lantern.
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 26
                +1
                There are 1118 aircraft in this modification.
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 29
                  +1
                  Thank you, for any lice comments are valuable.
                  1. Alf
                    Alf 26 October 2012 23: 33
                    +1
                    Always happy to help than I can.
                    1. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 36
                      +1
                      Thank you, Vasily, but I remember exactly that this one was sleeping in the USSR, you don’t have any sources?
                      1. Alf
                        Alf 26 October 2012 23: 39
                        +1
                        I have a monograph on Spita, now I’m too lazy, tomorrow I’ll go to the basement, get it out and lay out a scan.
                      2. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 40
                        +1
                        I would really appreciate it. Thank you.
                      3. Alf
                        Alf 29 October 2012 18: 57
                        +1
                        We had several MK-16s, but these were versions with an American engine and an ordinary light, so, formally, there were no modifications shown in the USSR in the photo.
                      4. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 29 October 2012 18: 58
                        0
                        Thank you, I also clarified. You are right.
                      5. Alf
                        Alf 29 October 2012 19: 00
                        0
                        MK-16 we did not have.
  10. Alex 241
    Alex 241 26 October 2012 21: 22
    +1
    Here he is Dim, I'm sorry that the picture is small.
    1. DIMS
      DIMS 26 October 2012 21: 28
      0
      Exactly.
      They say that when they found a German who brought him down, he cried. He said that he went to aviation, having read the books of Exupery.

      And the most interesting thing is that Exupery received these sorties as a gift - he, by that time a very famous writer, did not want to let them go to combat aircraft for a kilometer. Man. It is strange that France waged a war with such people for several weeks.
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 26 October 2012 21: 38
        +1
        Yes, Dim was like that, because of health reasons he couldn’t fly, they put him in the cockpit, and only in the air he was transformed.
        1. DIMS
          DIMS 26 October 2012 21: 48
          0
          "Health" was just an excuse. His spirit is like a Siberian hunter. Maybe one of the Slavs was present in his family?
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 26 October 2012 21: 52
            0
            Yes, no Dim, it was decently broken, and after 12 years old every Frenchman had something Russian bully
            1. DIMS
              DIMS 26 October 2012 22: 00
              +2
              He was broken even after his postal flights. But this did not stop him from fighting for France.
              You probably remember: "This, of course, is a dream. I am in college. I am fifteen years old. I diligently solve a problem in geometry ..." Only "The Little Prince" is cooler than her - a fairy tale for adults that every self-respecting father should read to his son at the age of 18. Earlier it was impossible to understand it.
  11. Alex 241
    Alex 241 26 October 2012 22: 06
    +3
    For the rest of my life I remembered his words: A friend is the one who has the right to you, this is the one who can come to you day and night, come and say: I need you ........... verily you won’t say better !!!!!!!!!!

    Dim found
    1. DIMS
      DIMS 26 October 2012 22: 11
      0
      Well, for sure the Slavs in the family. And that is precisely why it is, perhaps, more popular with us than at home. Communicated on Baikal with the French. They know that there was such a writer, but did not read it.
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 26 October 2012 22: 13
        +1
        You know there is no prophet in your own country ........... a man is a soldier writer. Worship!
        1. DIMS
          DIMS 26 October 2012 22: 19
          +1
          Philosopher. Philosophy of ownership. "We are responsible for those ..." and so on.
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 26 October 2012 22: 23
            +1
            Do you remember how in the Normandy-Niemen movie the Russian technician said about the French pilot: The pilot, what is needed, even though the count, After they died together during the flight, the pilot never left his technician, although he could ......... There are people.....
            1. DIMS
              DIMS 26 October 2012 22: 28
              +1
              Exactly. There are people...
              When I can’t walk normally, I’ll write about the People I met.
  12. Alex 241
    Alex 241 26 October 2012 22: 30
    +2
    It is for more people ............ to meet in this life. Dim and you here have dashed off a whole philosophical treatise ..........
    1. studentmati
      studentmati 26 October 2012 22: 34
      0
      Well done! The main thing is that everything is from the heart!
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 26 October 2012 22: 39
        0
        Hi Sash, yes, something found today ..........
        1. studentmati
          studentmati 26 October 2012 22: 42
          0
          Hey. Because I think and found that the theme is spiritual!
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 26 October 2012 22: 44
            0
            Well, Exupery is an earthly man in the sky, or a heavenly man on the earth ....... it's hard to be indifferent. Here and Dima the fighter and the smoke of gunpowder, from this side opened.
      2. DIMS
        DIMS 26 October 2012 22: 45
        0
        Is it possible to write about People differently? I remember we were going, my nuker around me like a grasshopper jumping. At first he yelled at him, "you will fall, you moron." And then I realized that he was trying to get between me and the side from where the shots were heard. I fed the woodpecker with sweets and put on an armor so that it would not fly off the car on the way.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 26 October 2012 22: 49
          0
          It’s hard to add anything when my wife was pregnant, and in the yard 90, with grubbing not so much, the soldiers when they received the parcel from home, they brought all the sweets to her, the first time this happened, I was speechless.
          1. DIMS
            DIMS 26 October 2012 23: 09
            +1
            And we bought diapers for the child at our school plodder. And left on his desk in the office. At first he twitched, and then he humbled himself. In 96 it was. At the graduation, his wife tried to find out who did it and why, but even after the vodka cartridge case we were silent as partisans.
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 11
              +1
              I also wanted to build my own at first, but the guys did it from the heart, such impulses cannot be broken through the knee. Yes, and to be honest, it was nice to hell ........... soldier
              1. DIMS
                DIMS 26 October 2012 23: 13
                0
                And what would you achieve after construction?
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 17
                  +1
                  I’m talking about this and Dim.
    2. DIMS
      DIMS 26 October 2012 22: 35
      0
      There are a lot of people with a capital letter around, we just don’t always notice them. What's wrong.
      1. studentmati
        studentmati 26 October 2012 22: 48
        +2
        I apologize if I intervene, but I think we don’t notice, most likely because the person doesn’t stick himself out with a capital letter, and we sometimes pass by, simply because we need to go to the store, call somewhere .... We’re in a hurry, in short, and where we ourselves often can’t explain where.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 26 October 2012 22: 53
          +3
          Yes, Sasha, each in his own problems, and I grew up in a small military town where, after the service, a population of two houses gathered under a large oak tree, men cut into dominoes, women fussed about their things, children in the sandbox. when guests went without invitation ......
          1. studentmati
            studentmati 26 October 2012 23: 01
            +1
            And then life was full of meaning !!! And there were prospects! And everyday life seemed Paradise! And with the current informational opportunities, it seems that a person turns into a "bit of information" and nothing more. Rarely does intelligence smolder in their eyes, information and money are all around.
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 06
              +2
              Let's break through, not everything is so bad.
        2. DIMS
          DIMS 26 October 2012 23: 04
          +1
          Rather, we do not notice ourselves. Sometimes believing that he does his due.

          About a week ago I decided to help my neighbor in the country. I dragged her cart to the bus, loaded it, then another grandmother appeared with a cart, then another one, then another .. And then they began to praise me for it. Z..ts how ashamed it was for some reason. I just did what my parents and grandfather taught me. And I was not ashamed of these praises, but of the fact that I was praised for what is natural for a normal man. Fuck knows ...
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 07
            +1
            We are diminishing other valor now, and we, with our own ideas about honor and decency, are dinosaurs.
            1. studentmati
              studentmati 26 October 2012 23: 24
              +1
              And if you take a closer look at modern youth, then already now, after one "lost generation", a considerable stratum of young people has appeared, which completely rejects all these "valor" of the 90-2000s, proposed by the adversaries and turns to values, as you put it "dinosaurs". And I consider it our duty to support these guys, including through propaganda, at least by telling in detail and with a soul about the same SB bomber.
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 28
                +1
                Sasha, I try, believe me. But there are positive people from whom you can learn something and learn something, but there are people who come here only to wet ..........
                1. studentmati
                  studentmati 26 October 2012 23: 34
                  0
                  I am sure, Alexander, that you have passed the correct school and can firmly filter out the positive from mokrushniki.
          2. studentmati
            studentmati 26 October 2012 23: 10
            +1
            The main thing is that your soul is calm, because you live as your parents and grandfather taught.
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 14
              +1
              Sasha, my calm.
              1. studentmati
                studentmati 26 October 2012 23: 16
                +1
                And mine is calm, and therefore I know how to enjoy life, no matter what turns it presents.
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 18
                  +1
                  It’s better without bends on direct traction.
            2. DIMS
              DIMS 26 October 2012 23: 20
              +1
              The main thing is that our children are better than us. Then we can throw back the horses with the knowledge that we have not lived in vain.
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 23
                +2
                I hope so Dim.
  13. Alex 241
    Alex 241 26 October 2012 22: 38
    0
    You’re right, my friend, but as always ............ You only find it here. In life, we don’t look into each other’s eyes.
  14. DIMS
    DIMS 26 October 2012 23: 29
    +2
    Damn, it’s worth starting to remember about WWII airplanes, so immediately Exupery pops up and draws on philosophy.

    And about Pokryshkin, too, there was still that wrestler.

    And about the peasants for whom the first flight was the last.

    And about the kids who warmed their hands above the solarium burning in the barrel, so that after that the nuts would be twisted again
    1. studentmati
      studentmati 26 October 2012 23: 36
      +3
      I think that "Airplane" is already a philosophy! And only then a product made of wood and metal.
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 38
        +1
        Sasha, an airplane is a unity and a struggle of opposites, you yourself know, but devoting life to airplanes is already a philosophy.
        1. DIMS
          DIMS 26 October 2012 23: 43
          +1
          And to devote life to artillery weapons - to devote life to Higher Mathematics. smile
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 48
            0
            Dim remember the internal ballistics of the barrel systems and rocket engines of solid fuel ............. here would have been Ecclesiast nervously smoked. No wonder the best brains of the army in artillery say.
            1. DIMS
              DIMS 26 October 2012 23: 59
              +1
              The best brains of the army are in dates, clothing workers and nachprodov.
              Well, the rest just have romance in one place, when they enter the flight or artillery. smile
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 03
                0
                No Dim, I’m better with a plane two meters underground than to die from hemorrhoid, I’m sure you are of the same opinion bully
                1. DIMS
                  DIMS 27 October 2012 00: 06
                  0
                  My friend, you’d better not touch the noble disease of the tankmen ... winked
                  Fraught with
                  1. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 11
                    0
                    Dad served there, no problem bully
                    1. DIMS
                      DIMS 27 October 2012 00: 17
                      0
                      Then the second noble tanker is radiculitis. Exactly there, right?
                      1. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 20
                        0
                        Nope Dim, strong as armor ........... It will be necessary to twist me into a ram’s horn, I call it pocket Hercules. He went to my grandfather’s father, he was a blacksmith, well, I don’t have much from them quit.
                      2. DIMS
                        DIMS 27 October 2012 00: 27
                        0
                        Lucky. And my dad has long been suffering with radiculitis. Late in the fall, the tank stood in a large puddle, and Dad, like a normal officer, climbed onto the cable himself.
                      3. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 30
                        0
                        Like a real officer: do as I do, and not as I said ............. Dim I have good specialists in this area, can we come up with something?
                      4. studentmati
                        studentmati 27 October 2012 00: 35
                        +1
                        Radiculitis nerve disease, do not think to treat with chiropractors! my father lay for 12 years after these healers.
                      5. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 37
                        0
                        Sasha first needs a correct diagnosis, and only then treatment.
                      6. studentmati
                        studentmati 27 October 2012 00: 41
                        0
                        We men have one diagnosis: feed the family. And the infirmary prescribes green stuff and a patch for all diseases. Sadly, but ....
                      7. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 43
                        0
                        One pill: half from the head, the other from the w ..
                      8. DIMS
                        DIMS 27 October 2012 00: 44
                        0
                        The main thing is not to mix it up.
                      9. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 49
                        0
                        Like Dim, I forgot the most important thing.
                      10. DIMS
                        DIMS 27 October 2012 00: 41
                        0
                        Exactly. Better pain than paralysis.
                      11. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 42
                        0
                        I’ll write Dim to you in PM, but the specialists are very good, I wouldn’t know would not offer.
                      12. DIMS
                        DIMS 27 October 2012 00: 40
                        0
                        My mom is a neurologist. The highest qualification category. There would be an option, she would apply it.
                      13. studentmati
                        studentmati 27 October 2012 00: 43
                        0
                        And my mother is a doctor. And the outcome .... Our Faith must be in the foreground!
                      14. DIMS
                        DIMS 27 October 2012 00: 46
                        0
                        Come on, I couldn’t walk for some time. Now with a stick only when the weather changes. Mom knows her business.
                      15. studentmati
                        studentmati 27 October 2012 00: 47
                        +1
                        Do not fall spirit Dim !!! The rest will work out !!!
                      16. DIMS
                        DIMS 27 October 2012 00: 51
                        +1
                        Yes, I have no time to lose heart. The thing to do.
                      17. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 54
                        +2
                        at work and everything will be forgotten, well done Dim, in the andatra budenovki we went camping
                      18. DIMS
                        DIMS 27 October 2012 00: 56
                        +1
                        It’s not the time to feel sorry for yourself. I'll start in about 40 years. Okay, they’re already hinting at me. Calm. Until Sunday evening ..
                      19. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 57
                        +1
                        And you won’t start at 40. Until tomorrow.
                      20. studentmati
                        studentmati 27 October 2012 01: 06
                        0
                        Self-pity is a grave sin! We will live longer. Let's fight !!!
                      21. studentmati
                        studentmati 27 October 2012 00: 57
                        0
                        + + + + + + + + + + + +
                      22. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 50
                        0
                        Yes, and I had, so that the fighter would not tear off his hand, I had to strain ourselves, there were problems with the spine .......
              2. studentmati
                studentmati 27 October 2012 00: 06
                0
                100% agree. And the most interesting thing is that many of these romanticists from one place become just the true Patriots!
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 13
                  0
                  Romance has passed since time, there remains a sense of need and involvement.
                  1. studentmati
                    studentmati 27 October 2012 00: 15
                    0
                    Isn't that Patriotism? A feeling is not an imposed feeling, for example, conscription? In this, the genes of fathers and grandfathers appear, in my opinion.
                    1. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 17
                      0
                      Sasha doesn’t think about it. Just do your thing.
                      1. studentmati
                        studentmati 27 October 2012 00: 21
                        0
                        That is, do your thing on the machine? And who invested this machine with your upbringing? Father. Is not it? You don’t go to wet your neighbor because he looked at you askance and you do not steal a purse from your pocket in a trolley?
                      2. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 23
                        0
                        No machine is a conscious action. Sometimes intuitive.
                      3. studentmati
                        studentmati 27 October 2012 00: 32
                        0
                        So you Sanya yourself and answer that you love your homeland consciously! And you go to defense intuitively! I am very happy for you! and for the homeland!
                      4. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 34
                        0
                        Thank you Sash, but we are not used to such high words. There is simply such a profession ..............
                      5. DIMS
                        DIMS 27 October 2012 00: 30
                        0
                        Not on the machine. You just don’t bother with high matters like patriotism.
                      6. studentmati
                        studentmati 27 October 2012 00: 38
                        0
                        This is Patriotism, when, without bothering, you love your Motherland, no matter how ugly it may seem. I myself am so, it’s just that sometimes it hurts to hurt from injustice.
                      7. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 41
                        0
                        Sasha, like parents, is not chosen.
                2. DIMS
                  DIMS 27 October 2012 00: 16
                  0
                  Come on, what a patriotism. This is too grandiloquent. Some are stealing, others are fighting, just different professions.
                  Everything is much simpler. The life of the neighbors in the trench on the right and left is much more important than love for the motherland. We are brought up like that
          2. studentmati
            studentmati 26 October 2012 23: 51
            +1
            What I’m talking about. Each has its own philosophy of life: airplanes, artillery, mathematics, women, vodka, ... Who studied what.
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 53
              +1
              The main thing is who became ...............
              1. studentmati
                studentmati 26 October 2012 23: 55
                +1
                I agree! Great seen in the distance!
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 57
                  0
                  But it's better to look in the eyes ...
                  1. studentmati
                    studentmati 27 October 2012 00: 03
                    0
                    Look into the eyes and be able to see and understand what kind of philosophy a person lives.
                    1. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 06
                      0
                      Sasha see at least that this is a man.
                      1. studentmati
                        studentmati 27 October 2012 00: 09
                        0
                        Empty or insidious eyes, I think. Sash, you are taught to distinguish. And it makes no sense to look at them.
        2. studentmati
          studentmati 26 October 2012 23: 46
          0
          Still, I believe that the "plane" is a philosophy: will fly, will not fly. And to devote your life to this philosophy is a struggle - to give your life entirely to the philosophy of an airplane or to live with earthly problems: planting and digging potatoes, going fishing, watching TV, ...
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 52
            0
            Sasha, I think so: there should be a favorite work that would bring joy, and then ..... remember the words from the film DIVING BOMBERS CHRONICLE: ...... To pollinate oats? It's just wonderful ....... ..
          2. DIMS
            DIMS 26 October 2012 23: 53
            0
            It’s not a matter, it’s a man. And the struggle in it and without any aircraft is enough.
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 55
              0
              Dim as they say: Everyone is tormented by their demons ..............
              1. DIMS
                DIMS 27 October 2012 00: 04
                +1
                Often in a dream I am haunted by a demon of a battery thermometer that flew away with a shell.
                For the entire service he didn’t get so once, but now he doesn’t miss me less than once every two weeks, an infection. And I’m afraid to go to a psychotherapist - I’ll have to explain for a long time what it is and why it flies away
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 10
                  +1
                  Dim can for the money? bully To defuse a joke: the pilot in a dream screams foolish: PADS, PADS .............., his wife wakes him up: What’s the matter? He: imagine a dream, the earth opened up, and all the planes there. Wife: Well? Well. Well, mine is on the blocks.
                  1. studentmati
                    studentmati 27 October 2012 00: 13
                    +1
                    That's right, the main thing is not to lose heart !!!
                  2. DIMS
                    DIMS 27 October 2012 00: 22
                    0
                    He, the infection, is expensive. Exactly for the money.

                    Artillery jokes I will not tell. They are too specific.
                    1. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 24
                      0
                      Then I continue: The pilot’s dream that a large plane would fly in, eat all the small ones, and then die
                      1. DIMS
                        DIMS 27 October 2012 00: 38
                        0
                        Here is another. A battery thermometer is inserted into one of the sleeves in order to know the temperature of the charge - one of the corrections in range.
                        And of course, especially gifted subordinates appear who charge this charge despite a bunch of ribbons that you imposed on it. As a result, the thermometer flies away. And he, zarza, dear.
                      2. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 27 October 2012 00: 40
                        0
                        Dim from a ballistics course, I remember that, they still taught well .............
      2. DIMS
        DIMS 26 October 2012 23: 42
        +1
        In fact, life is a philosophy. Aircraft is just one of the points of application of this philosophy. Just worth remembering. It’s worth remembering everything.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 44
          0
          Dim is for me a fulcrum, and only then philosophy. I myself remember, and I punished my child ...........
  15. Alex 241
    Alex 241 26 October 2012 23: 31
    +1
    Dim is also Kozhedub, Klubnev, Lilia Litvyak Lavrinenkov, and many others, and of course, our rear, which brought victory to the hands of children and women.
  16. Antistaks
    Antistaks 29 October 2012 19: 01
    +1
    Again Russia is the birthplace of elephants !!!!!!! And why did we suddenly in the thirties become the best on duralumin and adjustable pitch screws? A bomb carrier, by definition, cannot overtake a fighter of its generation. The performance characteristics of the aircraft are given at the kindergarten level. Weight is usually given in three versions - empty, normal and maximum. Not a word about the wing area. Range - at what load? If the plane is empty then you need to write - ferry. Combat load - again at what range? Speed ​​- at what height. Motor power - there are at least two of them and again at what height?
  17. Oles
    Oles 14 November 2012 16: 53
    0
    rare ha \\\ but ... ripped off amersky "Boston" ... but we had little of our own ... and then .. one Russian plywood ....