Military Review

Nobody talked about the modernization of 800 T-62 tanks: how an elephant was blown up from a telegram post

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Nobody talked about the modernization of 800 T-62 tanks: how an elephant was blown up from a telegram post

You know, there is such a well-aimed saying in Russian: “I hear a ringing, but I don’t know where it is.” It should be noted that it very clearly characterizes the current media and bloggers who are chasing this very information, often simply copying it from each other. For example, we can take from nowhere appeared news that the T-90M is equipped with a cannon from the "Armata" - we have already analyzed this in detail here. And now a new trend has begun: “Russia is modernizing 800 tanks T-62. In fact, these are the next ideas that flooded the network. However, as well as rumors that the tank modernization project was being developed in an emergency mode due to a special operation.


800 units are not only T-62


Unlike the reports about the Armata cannon on the T-90M, the source of the news about the horde of 800 modernized T-62 tanks is quite obvious. This is the official telegram channel of State Duma deputy Andrey Gurulyov. It is noteworthy that the post in the "cart" did not carry any lies - everything is told and shown as it is. This was already figured out.

Recently, the 103rd armored repair plant, located in the Trans-Baikal Territory, received a very large order for the repair and modernization of armored vehicles, in which the number really appeared - 800 units, but not only T-62s. Gurulyov, as a former deputy chairman of the government of the Trans-Baikal Territory, and part-time also a general, decided, as they say, to figure out on the spot what the plant and its employees lack, how to help, and so on. Well, of course, he went there. After that, a post appeared in his channel.

Gurulev's visit to the 103rd BTRZ. Screenshot from the video in the telegram channel of Andrey Gurulyov
Gurulev's visit to the 103rd BTRZ. Screenshot from the video in the telegram channel of Andrey Gurulyov

It features two videos in which T-62M towers and hulls flash by, and the deputy himself talks with factory workers about problems and losses of equipment, and also, in particular, notes positive reviews about these tanks from the fronts of the NVO and calls, as they say, to tighten up and "give the country coal." But there is also a text, which, apparently, they seized on.

Original text by Gurulev

Let's quote the main part:

“... The enterprise works in two shifts, it is ready to work in three, we need help in this, it will not work out otherwise, there is a lot of work. Today, the entire industry is mobilized, because the plant cannot work alone - we need suppliers who supply spare parts, this comes from all over Russia. Tanks are not just being repaired, but modernized. The same The T-62 will be equipped with modern thermal imagers, night sights, and the protection, hinged armor, protection against javelins, and aft protection against grenade launchers will be overhauled. With a modernized machine, it will be possible to show worthy on the battlefield, because we still have to fight for a long time ... "

That is, as we can see, Gurulev says that the armored vehicles arriving at the plant will not only be repaired, which is quite logical if we are talking about re-mothballing, but also modernized. As an example of modernization, he cites the same T-62s. There is no information that all 800 cars will be “sixty-twos”, no. They were simply singled out by the deputy from the total mass of tanks and other equipment as an example of the fact that the plant not only repairs equipment, but also improves its combat characteristics.

They correctly understood this information, for example, in the Kommersant newspaper:

"... The State Duma deputy of the Russian Federation did not specify which models of tanks were being repaired, mentioning only the T-62, which will be retrofitted with "modern thermal imagers, night sights", as well as enhanced protection - "mounted armor against javelins."

Rossiyskaya Gazeta, which is the official mouthpiece of the Russian government, reacted a little more extensively, but in the right style. They did not talk about almost a thousand modernized T-62s, but they considered in great detail (within the framework of the publication format) a possible option for refining these machines.

Well, then ... Then we know what happened. For example, you can take ANNA-News:

“Deputy of the State Duma Andrei Gurulev visited the 103rd armored repair plant in the Trans-Baikal Territory. He said that the enterprise would have to return 800 T-62 tanks to the Russian army from military equipment storage bases.

The deputy Gurulev also said that the 103rd armored plant located in Atamanovka near Chita was loaded with orders for three years. It is during this period that these 800 T-62 tanks should return to service. He explained the need for their return to service by large losses in equipment in the initial period of a special military operation in Ukraine ... "

But really "Russia is upgrading 800 T-62 tanks” is an even more or less mild wording of some headings. Otherwise, their tone changes from a sharply decadent mood and ending with ridicule in the style of "all the tanks lost." But it is worth paying tribute: the majority of the media refrained from this topic, which, of course, is correct. But, having driven in the corresponding request in the same Yandex, you can find a lot of posts of a similar plan.

Indeed, one of the main specializations of the 103rd BTRZ is the repair of the T-62. The company has owned this technology since Soviet times. It is logical that they will be modernized there. However, in addition to these tanks, the company is able to master bringing into combat condition other vehicles, including, for example, tanks of the T-72 type and light armored vehicles. There is no doubt that there are T-800s in the order for 62 units, but their share in this number is by no means one hundred percent - it's just the total amount of equipment, work on which was laid down 3 years in advance. And you can't find anything else in any official source.

The very same modernization of the T-62 did not arise from scratch, but the reason for its initial appearance is far from being a special operation.

Was the T-62 modernization project designed exclusively for the NWO?


First of all, you need to understand that the T-62s have been in the mobilization reserve for almost 11 years, that is, no one sent them to eternal parking. These tanks, mostly located in storage bases in the eastern part of the country, are still maintained in more or less good technical condition. Not all, of course, but a significant amount. For this, the production of new 115-mm cannon barrels was even launched, about which UralVagonZavod reported more than three years ago. There were also references to the production of shells, but information on this matter is now deaf.

And since there are tanks, projects for their modernization will also be proposed. The enterprise that implements it will receive funding, and the machines, if they are not going to be written off, will improve their combat effectiveness.

The 103rd Armored Repair Plant was no exception. The T-62M modernization project, which they are now trying to pass off as created in an emergency mode and designed literally on the knee because of a special operation, actually appeared at exhibitions long before it.

Upgraded T-62M. Source: vitalykuzmin.net

Modernization option for the T-62M from the 103rd BTRZ at the Army-2022 forum

For example, one of the last mentions of a modernized tank from the 103rd BTRZ was in the fall of 2021, when the tank was shown at one of the shows. There is also a mast with a multispectral module in the form of a thermal imager, a near-range IR camera and a laser rangefinder, there is also dynamic protection, and a thermal imaging sight-rangefinder at the gunner. Everything is in the best traditions of any tank factory in any country: to exhibit your new product in the “expensive-rich” style, and then bargain with the customer – it is always profitable to start from the top price ceiling.

As a result, as we can see, the order was nevertheless issued, which to a large extent contributed to the SVO. So far, not a single serial machine of this type has been noticed, but we can say with confidence that the project will be significantly changed. Most likely, they will abandon the mast with a multispectral module - too expensive. In addition to the rest, they will put a “visor” on the roof from the Javelins and equip the frontal projections of the tank with dynamic protection.

Conclusions


There is absolutely no open and reliable information about how many modernized T-62Ms are planned for release. There may be ten units, maybe a hundred, or maybe all two hundred - no one talked about it. But to think out too much and bring this number to eight hundred, it turned out for many. However, as with the modernization project itself, which was allegedly created solely because of a special military operation in Ukraine.

Such dubious news cannot carry anything but unjustified negativity. For some, this is a reason to gloat, they say, Russia has already lost all the equipment, they will soon remember the T-34. For others, it is a cause for indignation.

But there is still a fly in the ointment in this situation. All sorts of positive reviews about the T-62M in the special operation zone are a wagon and a small cart, but in fact the car is already rather outdated. Yes, the modernization, which includes the installation of thermal imaging sights, dynamic protection and other elements, will take the tank to a new level.

However, we have a sufficient number of T-72s at the storage bases, and there are also T-80s. They are revived and put into operation, which, by the way, the 103rd BTRZ will also do. And just thermal imagers and other means would suit them more than the “sixty-two”. We hope that the Ministry of Defense will pay attention to this situation. We need tanks, and it's not just about SVO. Tanks are needed, not the reports of small-town bloggers that metal shells do not burn, and the absence of an automatic loader guarantees the absence of breakdowns.
Author:
Photos used:
bastion-karpenko.ru
223 comments
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  1. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 23 October 2022 05: 55
    +24
    It's like in a village... at one end of the village an old woman sneezed, then at the other end another old woman shouts guards... they kill... with all the details of a terrible crime.
    The media is the same village with grandmas ... just to blurt out something.
    1. Black_PR
      Black_PR 23 October 2022 06: 02
      +3
      Or someone needs it (to start a false rumor and confuse the people).
      1. Cottodraton
        Cottodraton 23 October 2022 17: 05
        +1
        To all the bluffers. The more hype, the more views ... but there is no responsibility for the "bazaar" ... although the consequences may not be good
        1. bayard
          bayard 23 October 2022 23: 32
          +8
          I saw Solovyov's interview with this general, and there it sounded "modernization of the T-62" and to the question "how much", slightly hemmed "800 units in 3 years".
          So the article does not give any clarity, no decoding of the composition of this order.
          And I don’t understand the passions and hand-wringing about the fact that our T-62M is being modernized and returned to service. They fought in the Caucasus in the Five-Day War with Georgia - against the Georgian T-72! And they fought successfully.
          They were brought to the reserve quite recently, it is easier to operate, repair and maintain. And indeed - the absence of an automatic loader gives much fewer reasons for failures at the most inopportune moment. And for those who are hysterical about "junk", and "how can we live without a machine gun", let me remind you that neither the "Abrams" nor the "Leopard-2" have an automatic loader. Although they could be. But among our opponents in the Cold War, the question of reliability and reliability in battle was also put in the first place.
          And here, starting with the T-64, the task was to make a "medium tank with a heavy gun". And in our case, it was impossible to do without AZ. And it was only later that the concept of MBT appeared. It’s just that the enemy’s tanks became heavy tanks, while ours became medium tanks ... gradually growing in weight, but remaining in the same category. It was important for us to pass through bridges, the carrying capacity of ferries, the possibility of being transferred by aircraft (An-22, then An-124) and mass production.
          So everything is fine if all 800 vehicles in order 103 to the repair plant turn out to be T-62. This will not in the least diminish the ability of other repair plants to repair and upgrade the T-72 and T-80. In war, every tank counts, and in auxiliary areas, on the defensive, for service at checkpoints ... Yes, just replace the T-72, T-80, T-90 for a while in the same Far East (in less responsible directions) to send them to the western front, if required.
          Omsk and St. Petersburg repair plants are now upgrading the T-80 to BVM, at other enterprises they will upgrade the T-72B to T-72B3 \ B3M, at the third they will upgrade the T-72A (presumably to the level of the "White Eagle"), T-90 to T-90M. Two new repair plants are under construction. So enough other types.
          And if the deputy general was mistaken and different machines appear in the order 103 to the repair plant (which, in principle, is not very rational), then it’s not the fault of those who heard his statements and understood him literally. The way he said it could be understood literally.
          And the fact that the "hysterics" spun like a snake on this topic, that "we'll get to the T-34" ... lol We won’t get there - we have thousands of T-72s (at least 7000), T-80s (from 3000 to 5000), T-64s (up to 4000) at our storage bases. In a circle, this is at least 15 completely modern tanks - repairable, suitable for modernization.
          ... And then sobs about "the T-62M has come" lol
          The gun is 115 mm. weak lol ... And the fact that she cracked Georgian modernized T-72s in the Five-Day War like nuts is not an argument for you? What is the explosion safety of the BC for this tank higher? Give him dynamic forehead protection and side screens with remote sensing, gratings on MTOs, new thermal imagers and night sights, and he will be on equal footing with the T-64 and T-72 APU. And serving them in combat conditions is much easier.
          Yes, to strengthen the National Guard (protection of rear facilities, protection of march columns and supply columns), they are just perfect.
          And for those who consider them junk, let me remind you that they were in production until the 80s. Some of them are younger not only than many T-64s and T-72s, but also the first series of T-80s. It's just that this tank was for less priority theater of operations - Central Asia, Transcaucasia, Far East.
          1. bulava74
            bulava74 24 October 2022 03: 23
            +3
            A very well thought out and thoughtful comment. It is felt that the person is in the subject of armored forces.
          2. Dimax-nemo
            Dimax-nemo 24 October 2022 08: 43
            0
            1. There are also automatic loaders on the "last" "Western tanks". In particular, for two decades on Leclerc, and, if sclerosis does not change, on the "Japanese". There is an automatic loader on the just shown "concepts" - the German Panther , the proposed latest modification of Abrams.
            More crew - more booked volume, with the same mass, protection or weapons are weaker.
            2. The 115 mm hammer cannon is approximately similar in ballistics to the 105 mm NATO (English) tank gun. Although the latter is still in use, and ammunition for it is being actively modernized (unlike our 115-mm ones), it has not been put on MBT for a long time. Abrams already in the second modification were re-equipped with a 120-mm smoothbore gun. From which it follows that the 105-mm gun has not been considered sufficiently effective in NATO against Soviet tanks, which were considered the latest in the 80s, for a long time. 20th century - T-72B, T-80BV and U. I note that with new ammunition, the 105-mm gun is superior in armor penetration to the Hammer. Where and how the T-62s were "clicked" by the Georgian 72s could be explained by a specific tactical situation, from which far-reaching conclusions should not be drawn.
            3. The fact that the T-62 was in mass production back in the 80s does not mean that even then these machines were not considered obsolete in the USSR. At about the same time, we continued to make the MiG-23BN, while our Air Force had long received the MiG-27. Soviet military equipment was very often supplied on credit, while the prices for it varied widely depending on the "merits", and not all of those who received it "deserved" the T-72 on such "preferential" conditions. Moreover, on some theaters and T-62s, there was enough with the head (especially if this head was still there).
            The upgraded T-62M (and T-55M) were considered roughly equivalent to the first T-64 and T-72, and primarily due to the presence of anti-tank systems. Those. they could resist (in theory) the M60, Chifften, Leopard-1, and support their infantry in the attack. More was not expected of them.
            4. For that matter, the T-55 was not considered much inferior to the T-62 after the appearance of the D-10T BOPS in the ammunition load. Even after that, armor penetration was less than that of the Hammer, but not by much, but the practical rate of fire was higher. And 100-mm unitary shots in Soviet tanks had nowhere to manually turn over, and even more so 115-mm.
            1. bayard
              bayard 24 October 2022 11: 14
              +2
              Quote: Dimax-Nemo
              1. There are also automatic loaders on the "last" "Western tanks". In particular, for two decades on Leclerc, and, if sclerosis does not change, on the "Japanese". There is an automatic loader on the just shown "concepts" - the German Panther , the proposed latest modification of Abrams.

              And this is how many decades they have been fiddling with them in order to routinely put a machine gun on a serial tank, achieving the required reliability ...
              But after all, even with manual loading, their tanks shoot quite well. wink So the T-62M will still shoot.
              In war, everything that can be useful in battle should be. Here it is. And full storage bases will not allow the army to remain without tanks. And this is good .
              Quote: Dimax-Nemo
              Where and how the Georgian 62s “clicked” the T-72s there could be explained by a specific tactical situation,

              Mostly "crowbar", sometimes with subsequent detonation of BC. No one puts these tanks on the same level, but nevertheless, the T-62M is quite effective and is quite suitable for its niche of application. and its return to service, even with modernization, is much cheaper and faster than other (more advanced) tanks.
              The USSR defeated the coalition of fascists in Europe in WWII not just on the battlefield, but mainly economically. We produced much more tanks, artillery systems, ammunition and everything else, our equipment was more maintainable, losses were quickly replenished. And today, having such a chic backlog and heritage, it’s a sin not to use it in the entire available range.
              There are never many tanks in a war.
              And the war will be long - it is not enough to destroy fascism in the used Ukraine alone.
              And do not forget that we are constantly comparing NATO HEAVY tanks with medium tanks of the USSR / RF. The United States is now adopting a "light" tank with 105 mm. cannon and weighing about 35 tons. ... what It turns out that our T-62M is now ... a light tank ?? And not bad for the "light" turned out. bully
              1. Dimax-nemo
                Dimax-nemo 25 October 2022 10: 28
                0
                Leclerc generally appeared later than Abrams and Leopard-2, while weighing somewhat lighter than them. I don’t know how much they messed with him there, they wanted to - they did it. The French put "drums" on light AMX-13s back in the 50s, before us. On Leclerc, the automatic loader is different from ours, except maybe Breakthrough.

                If you "work" on the T-62M, then in terms of performance characteristics it will be comparable to the latest American "expeditionary" tank Griffin-2. Which the Americans consider "light" and which they need when Abrams has nothing to carry to the other side of the planet to drive men in slippers, who only have the T-54 "in the original". According to the principle "for lack of fish and cancer, fish" (after that, shooting the first T-64s at the firing ranges on the "Military acceptance" cameras no longer looks like a very good idea, with the exception of sights and other electronics, they almost perfectly fit into the requirements of the US Army for a light tank; ))). In Ukraine, unfortunately, we still have a somewhat different situation.
                1. bayard
                  bayard 25 October 2022 14: 52
                  0
                  Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                  I don’t know how much they messed with him there, they wanted to - they did it.

                  They have been fiddling with Leclerc since the beginning of the 80s. But France was then a non-bloc country and no one hurried them - they had normal relations with the USSR, they kept their distance from NATO. But the tank really turned out to be quite good ... and of course lighter than heavy NATO tanks - an automatic loader, after all.
                  Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                  If you "work" on the T-62M, then in terms of performance characteristics it will be comparable to the latest American "expeditionary" tank Griffin-2.

                  I will say more - if you throw off an extra body kit from the T-64, then it will also be included in this weight category. The initial weight of the T-64 was 34 tons, but then it began to grow, in new modifications.
                  In general, an ideal light tank for the RF Armed Forces would be a floating (!) Tank based on the BMP-3M Dragoon hull, with the Octopus turret shifted back. Frontal armor and side screens from "Kurganets" (they are standard on the BMP-3M) provide frontal and side armor resistance from 30 mm. projectile and RPG, the level of basic armor allows you to place dynamic protection on the armor. By retaining the aft door (or ramp), this will not only make it more convenient to leave the tank, but will also allow you to have a small troop compartment (like the Merkava) for 3-4 people. , or space for additional BC.
                  The weight of such a light amphibious tank will be about 25 tons. , which means that the IL-76MD90A will be able to take on board two of these tanks!
                  TWO tanks on one Il-76 (albeit MD90A)!
                  Here is such a tank - an amphibious air transportable one, that would be enthusiastically received not only by the Russian Airborne Forces, but also by the Navy, and the RF Armed Forces - they could equip at least a company for each motorized rifle and tank division - to arm and strengthen the avant-garde units, the task which would be forcing water barriers on the move to capture and hold a bridgehead until major crossings are established. Such a tank would also be indispensable for airmobile rapid reaction forces - for the rapid airlift of a reinforced contingent to any distance.
                  But such a tank will not jump with a parachute.
                  And he doesn't need it either. The Airborne Forces have a BMD-4 with twin 100mm and 30mm guns - more than enough for paratroopers. But as part of the main forces when landing by landing, such tanks are simply irreplaceable - two tanks on one side. Five Il-76MD90A for the transfer of a tank company!
                  And for export, such tanks would be in great demand ... just like hot cakes.
                  Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                  In Ukraine, unfortunately, we still have a slightly different situation.

                  In Ukraine, we have an artillery war - a la WWI / WWII, where tanks are consumables of war.
                  1. Dimax-nemo
                    Dimax-nemo 26 October 2022 09: 08
                    0
                    It’s not entirely clear to me why the Yankees got 38 tons where the Germans TAM weighed 30? Did you want a newer "Platform"? There were fewer problems with Marder than with this Anglo-Spanish miracle. In terms of ballistic protection, it is not impressive, with a mass like that of the T-62 and T-64 "in stock". However, if you remember that once in Abrams they made a hole from the KPVT laughing
                    And why, in fact, the Octopus does not suit the MP?
                    On the BMP-3, this is not a gun. "Launcher" with the ability to spit a 100-mm projectile. Miracles don't happen. There, the initial speed is slightly more than that of a mortar. In the 80s. one could rejoice that the ATGM is reloading behind the armor. Now the 100-mm size for ATGMs will not be enough.
                    1. bayard
                      bayard 26 October 2022 13: 13
                      0
                      Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                      It’s not entirely clear to me why the Yankees got 38 tons where the Germans TAM weighed 30?

                      Apparently they were carried away by mine protection. Yes, the Americans always get the "biggest".
                      Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                      if you remember that once in Abrams they made a hole from the KPVT

                      Near Slavyansk there was a case when the T-64 was pierced in the MTO from the "Cliff" ... Then they looked and were amazed - "HOW?". Strelkov wrote about this in the "Reports of Novorossia". The distance was short, the situation desperate... and oops. Anything can happen in a war, and what intricate wounds ...
                      Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                      And why, in fact, the Octopus does not suit the MP?

                      Possibly paper armor. They don't need a tank with a parachute in their ass. But the one described above by me would fit (as floating) completely.
                      Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                      On the BMP-3, this is not a gun. "Launcher" with the ability to spit a 100-mm projectile.

                      Low ballistics gun. But the return is in acceptable parameters. And do not forget that she can spit with an ATGM. For a paratrooper, whose task is to capture the airfield and hold it until the first planes land, such a gun is enough for the eyes. Especially if "Cornet" from a neighboring bush sings to her.
                      But when the first planes land, then TANKS should leave them. Let it be light, but still with acceptable armor. So that at least the fragments would hold a heavy machine gun.
                      Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                      In the 80s. one could rejoice that the ATGM is reloading behind the armor. Now the 100-mm size for ATGMs will not be enough.

                      Looking for what is not enough. For NATO MBT, it may not be enough in the forehead (here, let the "Cornet" try from under the bush), but for any other armored vehicles - behind the eyes. After all, we are talking about an infantry fighting vehicle, and not about a tank, it also has to carry troops.
                      The main flaw in the thinking of our airborne generals (for they ordered it) is that they still think in terms of paratroopers. But it made some sense in a Great Country with the most powerful Army and Economy, with a numerous and diverse BTA. Now the fleet of the VTA of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation is not so large, and its loss during the organization of parachute landings will be unacceptable. Therefore, it is necessary to overcome the inertia of thinking and make decisions and programs that are optimal for reality. And reality dictates the possibility of a parachute landing of ONLY reconnaissance, sabotage and vanguard units - a maximum. Everything else is landing. Il-76MD90A is capable of taking on board either two BMD-4s, or two BMP-3 \ 3M, or two light tanks described by me. This is where it should come from. Everything that is landed by landing should be as combat-ready and stable as possible in battle. And already from this it follows that from 2/3 to 3/4 of the entire airborne fleet should be not BMD-4, but BMP-3M "Dragoon".
                      And it seems that the Moscow Region finally understood this, and despite the completion of the state tests of the Octopus-SDM, a decision was made to strengthen its armor and protection. This is not exactly what I suggested, but the movement of thought is already in the right direction.
                      1. Dimax-nemo
                        Dimax-nemo 27 October 2022 08: 26
                        0
                        If you strengthen the reservation on the Octopus, it will become bad to swim. Sorry, but it's either tea with soap or hands with sugar. I don’t see any point in fencing a boat on caterpillars at all - it will be a bad fighting vehicle and a bad boat.
                        Malyutka, Fagot, Konkurs at the time of adoption could hit any NATO tank.
                        I will not "argue in absentia" with Margelov. I understand why the airborne generals wanted the BMD-3. I understand why they liked Bakhcha. But 14 tons for the Airborne Forces, alas, is overkill anyway. There is no point in discussing the number of seats in the tower now. So BMD-2 with some kind of "module", and let them calm down.
                        In any case, the An-12 will need to be replaced, and in any case, a lot of such aircraft will need to be done.
                      2. bayard
                        bayard 27 October 2022 15: 15
                        0
                        Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                        If you strengthen the reservation on the Octopus, it will become bad to swim.

                        They want to fasten KAZ ... well, maybe they will strengthen it with side screens (if they are like those of the Kurganets and BMP-3M, then they will also add buoyancy). But in any case, it will be far from optimal machine.
                        At the same time, both BMP-3 and BMP-3M swim well. Therefore, the tank I proposed based on the "Dragoon" will also be acceptable to swim. And not often he will need such an option. But the ability to load TWO tanks into one Il-76MD90A is worth a lot. And in the mountains this will feel much more confident (high power density / thrust-to-weight ratio). And in all branches of the military, such a tank will find a place for itself. This is what needs to be done, since everything necessary for this is already there.
                        Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                        In any case, the An-12 will need to be replaced, and in any case, a lot of such aircraft will need to be done.

                        What to replace it with? Work on the IL-276 did not begin - there was no one. This design bureau even failed the Il-112, and it seems to be finally - now all work has been stopped (there are NO engines suitable for such a glider) ... Unless they change Boguslaev, he can and will establish aircraft engine building.
                        Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                        So BMD-2 with some kind of "module", and let them calm down.

                        No, let them get BMD-4 (for paratroopers), "Shell" and as the main combat vehicle - BMP-3M and armored personnel carriers based on it.
                        The Airborne Forces in general should become airmobile rapid reaction forces of special subordination. Emphasis on airmobility.
                        And not on parachute landing.
                        And then everything will be harmonious, reasonable, justified and effective.
                      3. Dimax-nemo
                        Dimax-nemo 28 October 2022 08: 04
                        0
                        The octopus was originally on a chassis competing with the BMP-3, if I'm not mistaken. Both of them have “legs” sticking out of universal platforms, with which in the 80s they wanted to replace everything in general that can fit into 20 tons, up to the motorcycle league. Artillerymen have always been on their own, great originals. KAZ does not seem to receive even Breakthroughs. Additional armor modules on the BMP-3 were never seen in parts. They exist "in theory". However, the "three-ruble note" swims perfectly without them. Because the engine is in the back. Motorized riflemen, perhaps, are so good and don’t really need to make BMP-3 a la BMP-2 and calm down. But if you look at all the wishes of the Moscow Region, then Kurganets is still a compromise laughing
                        As for military-technical cooperation, one can only "congratulate" the Moscow Region. The decision to turn to the one who did almost all the military-technical cooperation in the USSR (except for the Il-76) seemed logical and justified. An-140, -148, -170 were quite decent and worthy devices. But, alas. We'll have to do it ourselves. I don't know how Rostec will get out of this. For a light military-technical cooperation, it’s easier for the Moscow Region to cut down on their Wishlist (although I have a suspicion that it wasn’t even the Moscow Region that wanted to shove a standard cargo air container into -112). For what they want, Rostec simply does not have an engine (and the desire to make a new one). We started to force, so we got what we got. With such an engine, only the An-26 can be obtained, at the very least. Does it need to be much better? They did quite well.
                        Oddly enough, I don’t see such problems with the IL-276. Again, if we limit ourselves to half of what the IL-76 lifts, i.e. up to 20t.
                        There is another problem with the BMD-4. Of the helicopters, only the Mi-26 can lift it (no options). Which are unlikely to be made again, and generally exclusive by definition. Like Ruslan. Another heavy transport helicopter will be needed, simpler and therefore less payload, also suitable for UDC. In which the BMD-2 can barely fit.
                      4. bayard
                        bayard 28 October 2022 13: 05
                        0
                        Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                        Additional armor modules on the BMP-3 were never seen in parts. They exist "in theory". However, the "three-ruble note" swims perfectly without them.

                        These side screens are provided for the BMP-3M "Dragoon", they are not in the troops, production has not begun, this is a prospect.
                        Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                        Motorized riflemen, perhaps, are so good and don’t really need to make BMP-3 a la BMP-2 and calm down.

                        In principle, the BMP-3 was presented at exhibitions with just such a module (uninhabited). Perhaps both variants of the combat module on the BMP-3 \ 3M will be justified in service. In this case, the classic modules for the trio will play the role of some kind of "light tanks" for motorized rifles.
                        Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                        With such an engine, only the An-26 can be obtained, at the very least.

                        This would be perhaps the most correct decision - just repeat the An-26, which is quite satisfactory, but the fleet of which is already very worn out.
                        Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                        Oddly enough, I don’t see such problems with the IL-276.

                        Not with engines, but the airframe must be designed practically from scratch, and there is simply no one to do it. And with the production of the same Il-76MD90A, almost nothing comes out ... it's just some kind of shame. So the problems are not only with development ... this is already a practical disqualification of the industry ... Capitalism and liberal administration won it.
                        Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                        only Mi-26 (no options). Which are unlikely to be made again

                        Actually, there are such plans and even started, but the whole problem is in the engines. Now all hopes for a turboshaft modification of the PD-8. But still, carrying BMPs / BMDs by helicopters ... this is as exclusive as the Mi-26s themselves.
                        Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                        Another heavy transport helicopter will be needed, simpler and therefore less payload, also suitable for UDC.

                        Such developments are being carried out by order of China - a carrying capacity of 12 tons. If it works out well, perhaps this will also appear with us.
                      5. Dimax-nemo
                        Dimax-nemo 28 October 2022 13: 41
                        0
                        There is one byaka with three, however, as with almost all other infantry fighting vehicles. And maybe even with Puma. The infantry fighting vehicle should carry the infantry behind the tanks, along with the tanks, maybe even ahead of the tanks. This she can. The trouble starts when this whole camp comes under fire from 6 ". Tanks, of course, also suffer. But not like that. Neither the side nor the stern armor even breaks through close gaps. But about the BMP-3 and even NATO ones, I'm not very sure Here, mm. 40 steel, at least you need to have a skin. That is, in fact, the BMP cannot fulfill its function, to accompany tanks and provide them with infantry. Well, there is still a lot of things to come out if you dig further. there is no need to look for good from good, we will not make a cart better than a "three" quickly and efficiently.What will be on it is the second question.

                        Well, we need to decide what is more important to us? MS-21 or IL-276? Dreams of systemic liberals that the military-industrial complex should provide for itself, or equipment in the troops?

                        BMD is an "exclusive" in itself. And everything connected with it. I once read a book about Rimbaud. There, at this visionary, helicopters carried BMD on an external sling. Americans love this.

                        In the topic of a heavy helicopter, we ran into engines. We wanted our own, the Chinese - Ukrainian. The Chinese wanted to send us, they almost bought Motor Sich. With Motor Sich, of course, they were broken off. What they can do on their own is an interesting question, but so far I haven’t heard more about a heavy helicopter. I heard about the PD-8 in the turboshaft, but they also did not fully understand the turbofan.
                      6. bayard
                        bayard 28 October 2022 14: 42
                        0
                        Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                        The infantry fighting vehicle should carry the infantry behind the tanks, along with the tanks, maybe even ahead of the tanks. This she can. The trouble starts when this whole camp comes under fire from 6 ". Tanks, of course, also suffer. But not like that. Neither the side nor the stern armor even breaks through close gaps. But about the BMP-3 and even NATO ones, I'm not very sure .

                        For assault formations, heavy armored personnel carriers are needed based on the chassis of tanks and with their own level of armor. The most reasonable thing is to use the tank hulls with almost zero mileage in storage and digest their hulls in TBTR. I have already described how to do this more than once. Similar work was carried out in the 90s - 00s in Kharkov, it turned out very worthy, but it remained in prototypes.
                        And the BMP-3 \ 3M and armored personnel carriers based on it should go into service with motorized rifle formations as the main weapon.
                        Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                        Well, we need to decide what is more important to us? MS-21 or IL-276?

                        So far, neither one nor the other, but the MS-21 is at least being prepared for mass production.
                        And design bureaus are developing them completely different. In addition, due to the inability of the Ilyushin Design Bureau to deal with a medium transport worker, they tried to entrust this to the Tupolev Design Bureau ... but even those free resources do not. As there is no experience in designing military transport aircraft.
                        Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                        I heard about the PD-8 in the turboshaft, but they also did not fully understand the turbofan.

                        The turbofan has already been prepared for certification tests - they are in a hurry. If possible, "Superjet-rus." it will fly, as the production of the Be-200 will finally resume.
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 24 October 2022 16: 11
              +3
              Quote: Dimax-Nemo
              At about the same time, we continued to make the MiG-23BN, while our Air Force had long received the MiG-27.

              EMNIP, the 27th was an expensive machine, sharpened purely for work on the ground. 23BN was more multifunctional, for which foreign customers loved it.
              1. Dimax-nemo
                Dimax-nemo 25 October 2022 10: 13
                0
                It seems that Gaddafi ordered F1 Mirages incl. in the "multi-purpose day" version. It was believed that the weather there was mostly good, and it would do without a full-fledged radar. Those. The MiG-23BN was not alone. On the Mirage, however, Aida's "under-radar" still remained.
          3. Negro
            Negro 24 October 2022 08: 44
            -1
            Quote: bayard
            And for those who consider them junk, let me remind you that they were in production until the 80s. Some of them are younger not only than many T-64s and T-72s, but also the first series of T-80s. It's just that this tank was for less priority theater of operations - Central Asia, Transcaucasia, Far East.

            Uh-huh.

            Actually, on this occasion and questions. The late USSR, among its other follies, was distinguished by the production of MBTs - in the late 70s, it produced MBTs of the same generation of three different types at the same time. In addition, the USSR operated 3 more types of tanks, considering the T-54/55 as one type.

            And it seems like it’s not yet the third world war, but we already see 5 types of tanks from the Russian side, in addition to various upgrades (T-90, T-80, T-72, T-64 (in the former LDNR), now the T-62 ). What characterizes the military-technical policy of the post-Soviet period.

            That is, the question is not whether the Soviet analogue of the M60 can be useful - it may well be, like the M60 itself - but why it was dug up in a particular situation.
            1. bayard
              bayard 24 October 2022 10: 53
              +2
              Quote: Negro
              That is, the question is not whether the Soviet analogue of the M60 can be useful - it may well be, like the M60 itself - but why it was dug up in a particular situation.

              In the United States, a "light tank" weighing 35 tons with a 105 mm gun is being developed and is being prepared for adoption into service. smile And in Russia, it is enough to return to service and modernize the T-62M. bully Each bast should be in a line, and everything that is useful should be.
              A variety of tank platforms brings certain difficulties, but no one produces these tanks from scratch, they simply ARE. And a good owner will find use for each tool.
              There are not many tanks.
            2. bayard
              bayard 24 October 2022 13: 56
              +1
              Quote: Negro
              Uh-huh.

              So the numbers of losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on 20.10.2022/XNUMX/XNUMX became known.
              Irretrievable losses - 402 people.
              Killed - 387 people.
              Losses among mercenaries, from Poland, the Baltic states, Romania - 54 people (of which 000 people were killed)
              This is the data of OSINT investigators.
              If so many were only killed, then how many more were wounded, crippled ... Was it definitely worth it?
              The question is of course rhetorical.
              1. Negro
                Negro 24 October 2022 15: 58
                0
                Quote: bayard
                So the numbers of losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on 20.10.2022/XNUMX/XNUMX became known.

                The telegram channel "reporter Rudenko" informs us.
                You do not care at all to disgrace yourself with such sources?
                Quote: bayard
                Was it really worth it?
                The question is of course rhetorical.

                You are absolutely right.
                1. bayard
                  bayard 24 October 2022 17: 40
                  +1
                  Quote: Negro
                  You do not care at all to disgrace yourself with such sources?

                  Actually, I have it from an American source.
                  1. Negro
                    Negro 24 October 2022 18: 02
                    -1
                    Quote: bayard
                    Actually, I have this from an American source

                    Very interesting. What's the source?
                    1. bayard
                      bayard 24 October 2022 20: 05
                      0
                      One of my countrymen. Has been living there for a long time.
                      1. Negro
                        Negro 24 October 2022 20: 40
                        -1
                        I asked for the source of the information. Or is it your fellow countryman who personally killed 400 Ukrainians?
                      2. bayard
                        bayard 24 October 2022 20: 59
                        0
                        You know who interrupted them.
                        By the way, this just corresponds to my extrapolation of losses at the beginning of summer. Since then, losses have doubled.
                        No, I won't tell you the source.
                        But these figures are already being rinsed on all resources. what do you think - why?
                      3. Negro
                        Negro 25 October 2022 08: 16
                        0
                        Quote: bayard
                        Do you know who interrupted them?

                        Who kills Ukrainians is no secret to anyone. I was interested in the source of the numbers. All the links I saw ended up leading to the private telegram of an employee of the Russia channel.
                        Quote: bayard
                        I won't tell you the source

                        I had no doubt.
                        Quote: bayard
                        what do you think - why?

                        Because "all the resources" you read are base Russian propaganda?
                      4. bayard
                        bayard 25 October 2022 14: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Negro
                        Who kills Ukrainians is no secret to anyone

                        So maybe the Armed Forces of Ukraine should leave the occupied Russian territories? You look and let go.
                        With losses.
                        Quote: Negro
                        "all the resources" that you read are base Russian propaganda?

                        So can you object with alternative figures?
                      5. Negro
                        Negro 25 October 2022 14: 42
                        0
                        Quote: bayard
                        maybe the Armed Forces of Ukraine should leave the occupied Russian territories?

                        In order to leave the occupied Russian territories, one must first occupy some Russian territories. Then this conversation will make sense.
                        Quote: bayard
                        So can you object with alternative figures?

                        I'm not a fortune teller. Ukrainian figures are classified, but there are simply no Russian ones and never will be.
                      6. bayard
                        bayard 25 October 2022 15: 56
                        0
                        Quote: Negro
                        In order to leave the occupied Russian territories, one must first occupy some Russian territories. Then this conversation will make sense.

                        Well, at least some areas of the DPR, Kherson and Zaporozhye regions. This is all the territory of the Russian Federation. How can the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation be able to tolerate the occupiers on their land?
                        Quote: Negro
                        Ukrainian numbers are classified

                        Well, there are, after all, other sources - statements by relatives of military personnel with whom communication is lost, the difference between those in the ranks and the payroll of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Guard, border troops and special forces of the SBU + the number of mobilized ... There are value judgments of American and not only generals who oversaw the Armed Forces of Ukraine. .. If at the beginning of the summer American sources called irretrievable losses of the order of 200 thousand, then by this day just such a figure comes out (400+ thousand). And even if the accuracy deviations are taken at 10-20%, then it’s all the same ... a lot ... But they haven’t started anything yet.
                        Here the Anglo-Saxons shook with nuclear batons, they planned provocations for the beginning of November ... But if any of this happens, it will immediately work as a trigger for the final resolution of the issue of the Anglo-Saxon countries. Fortunately, this is not difficult technically, but the adoption of a final decision needs an appropriate reason. And I understand that there will be a reason.
                      7. Negro
                        Negro 25 October 2022 16: 28
                        0
                        Quote: bayard
                        Well, at least some areas of the DPR, Kherson and Zaporozhye regions

                        You see, regardless of the very content of this proposal, Ukraine has already tried the "Peace for land" option with two other Ukrainian regions. It didn't lead to anything good. So this time you will have to look for other options.
                        Quote: bayard
                        How can the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation be able to tolerate the occupiers on their land?

                        Let the RF Armed Forces do what they want.
                        Quote: bayard
                        American sources called irretrievable losses of about 200 thousand

                        "American sources" never gave this figure. It was invented by Russian propagandists and already from them came to Russian propagandists in English. But now it is clear where "your" estimate of losses came from.
                        Quote: bayard
                        Here the Anglo-Saxons shook with nuclear batons, they planned provocations for the beginning of November ...

                        They've been talking about nuclear batons since day one. But I strongly doubt that these beauties are Anglo-Saxons.
                        Quote: bayard
                        Well, there are, after all, other sources - statements by relatives of military personnel with whom contact has been lost, the difference between those in service and the payroll of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Guard, border troops and special forces of the SBU + the number of mobilized ...

                        Yes, it is theoretically possible to carry out such work. As far as I know, no one is doing it for one reason or another.
                      8. bayard
                        bayard 25 October 2022 17: 33
                        0
                        Quote: Negro
                        "Peace in exchange for land" Ukraine has already tried with two other Ukrainian regions. It didn't lead to anything good.

                        And what did she try?
                        Did she sign the Minsk agreements and not fulfill a single point of them in 8 years?
                        Russia also tried to shove the Republic of Donbass back into Ukraine ... smile The condition was the fulfillment of all points of "Minsk". And also disappointed.
                        Quote: Negro
                        will have to look for other options.

                        Have to .
                        But without Ukraine.
                        Quote: Negro
                        Let the RF Armed Forces do what they want.

                        They do.
                        Quote: Negro
                        "American sources" never gave this figure.

                        They called .
                        moreover, approximately the same figures were called at a certain stage by internal Ukrainian sources. Of course, not official, but those who summarized data from the population, medical institutions, funeral homes. They have roughly the same order of numbers. And it would be foolish to doubt this, given the duration of the battle, the scope of the fronts, the density of fire, and the consumption of ammunition by both sides.
                        Quote: Negro
                        They've been talking about nuclear batons since day one. But I strongly doubt that these beauties are Anglo-Saxons.

                        No, it was the first to sing about it and since then your pan-drug addict has not let up - since the end of last year. Several senior officials of the former Ukraine sang along with him in tone.
                        And now the Anglo-Saxons are already singing with NATO backing vocals.
                        Now the stakes have risen to the level of nuclear escalation. Well, if it comes to that, we'll play for high stakes.
                        You are ready ?
                        What about your curators?
                        To the transfer of nuclear escalation to the territory of their countries?
                        Now for this (as in the old Soviet film) one TalEtka is enough.
                        And England will be the first to start water procedures. Not long ahead of the United States in this.
                        And everything will become easier.
                      9. Negro
                        Negro 26 October 2022 08: 37
                        0
                        Quote: bayard
                        And what did she try?

                        Peace in exchange for land, and twice. The surrender of the Kyrgyz Republic and Sevastopol was followed by Donbass, attempts to "bracket" Donbass ("you just need to stop shooting" and other nonsense of Zelensky from 2019) led to the events of 2022. By handing over more and more new lands, Ukraine will not get peace. She will not get peace at all without some external events - it seems that Ukrainians are gradually beginning to understand this.
                        Quote: bayard
                        But without Ukraine

                        People living in February are funny in their own way.
                        Quote: bayard
                        They do

                        Aha
                        Quote: bayard
                        called

                        Nope. Primary source - LJ correspondent of Tsargrad, as far as I remember.
                        Quote: bayard
                        it would be foolish to doubt this, taking into account the duration of the battle, the scope of the fronts, the density of fire, the consumption of ammunition by both sides

                        Well, Shoigu, for example, talks about 5-something thousand.
                        You do not believe Shoigu?
                        Quote: bayard
                        sang and since then your shanovny pan-drug addict has not let up - since the end of last year

                        The fact that Ukraine's obligations under the Budapest Memorandum became irrelevant in 2014 is, as it were, a fact. Another thing is that some things should be done, but should not be said about it. Here KVNschik once again screwed up.
                        Quote: bayard
                        And now the Anglo-Saxons are already singing

                        As far as I remember, the last stage of this story began to be dispersed by a telephone prankster from the RF Ministry of Defense.
                        Quote: bayard
                        And everything will become easier

                        How to say. While you are personally alive only because no one believes these old clowns. If suddenly they are believed, a full-scale preemptive strike will be the only reasonable option.
                      10. bayard
                        bayard 26 October 2022 12: 35
                        0
                        Quote: Negro
                        Ukraine will not get peace. She won't get peace at all without some external events

                        "NATO come, put things in order?" lol
                        Meanwhile, in the leading NATO countries ... something is changing inside. And not for your benefit.
                        And mobilization in the Russian Federation goes on as usual.
                        Quote: Negro
                        People living in February are funny in their own way.

                        I'm afraid that the enthusiastic fascists will see another February ... or December ... But this will be the last time.
                        Quote: Negro
                        some things should be done but shouldn't be talked about. Here KVNschik once again screwed up.

                        So you have only KVN workers there. Maete sho maete.
                        Quote: Negro
                        no one believes these old clowns.

                        Clowns always fill the intermission between the performances of the main artists. Look at Biden, Scholz, Lisa (who is FSE) ... do you really think that they are managing the processes. They can't even verbalize what they've been asked to do.
                        Quote: Negro
                        If suddenly they believe

                        While the clowns are performing, negotiations and consultations are going on somewhere in silence. And not at all what you thought.
                        Quote: Negro
                        a full-scale preemptive strike would be the only reasonable option

                        Have you seen the funny movie "Don't Even Think"?
                      11. Negro
                        Negro 26 October 2022 14: 22
                        -1
                        Quote: bayard
                        Have you seen the funny movie "Don't Even Think"?

                        No.
                        Quote: bayard
                        somewhere in silence there are negotiations and consultations

                        Yeah. After a call from Austin Shoigu with unknown content, on October 21, a new performance of the circus on the road about the "dirty bomb" began.
                        Quote: bayard
                        But this will be the last time.

                        Here's how lucky anyone is.
                        Quote: bayard
                        And mobilization in the Russian Federation goes on as usual

                        Oh yeah. To be honest, this is very encouraging.
                        Quote: bayard
                        NATO come, put things in order

                        NATO may be a temporary solution. If he wants, of course.
                      12. bayard
                        bayard 26 October 2022 15: 17
                        0
                        Quote: Negro
                        Quote: bayard
                        Have you seen the funny movie "Don't Even Think"?

                        No.

                        In vain.
                        Quote: Negro
                        Yeah. After a call from Austin Shoigu with unknown content, on October 21, a new performance of the circus on the road about the "dirty bomb" began.

                        Your "carpet" ones have not let up about this bomb since last year. And since the UN Security Council was assembled, then there was something to talk about.
                        Quote: Negro
                        Quote: bayard
                        But this will be the last time.

                        Here's how lucky anyone is.

                        Lucky for those who are lucky.
              2. Piramidon
                Piramidon 26 October 2022 11: 09
                0
                Quote: bayard
                If so many are only killed, then how many more are wounded, crippled ...

                Cripples are included in the concept of "irretrievable losses", i.e. survived, but they will no longer be able to fight.
                1. bayard
                  bayard 26 October 2022 13: 30
                  0
                  I know it . But in war, as a rule, there are 3-4 wounded for one killed. And the wounded, especially with severe and moderate wounds, do not return to duty for a long time. Or they don't come back at all.
                  By the beginning-mid-summer, the Armed Forces of Ukraine had mobilized over 750 thousand, so far the number of those mobilized has reached about a million + 350 thousand as of February 24.02.2022, 400. If we assume that at the moment there are about as many under treatment as died during the entire period (600 thousand), then now they have 650 - XNUMX thousand in service without foreign mercenaries. That's why they started a new wave of mobilization, because by the end November, parity in the number of l / s will be drawn on our fronts.
            3. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 24 October 2022 16: 14
              +2
              Quote: Negro
              The late USSR, among its other follies, was distinguished by the production of MBTs - in the late 70s, it produced MBTs of the same generation of three different types at the same time.

              Three and a half - T-80 in gas turbine and diesel versions can be considered one and a half types.
              Quote: Negro
              And it seems like it’s not yet the third world war, but we already see 5 types of tanks from the Russian side, in addition to various upgrades (T-90, T-80, T-72, T-64 (in the former LDNR), now the T-62 ).

              Four and a half. T-90 is "seventeenth modification of the T-72"© Commander-in-Chief SV Postnikov.
              1. Negro
                Negro 24 October 2022 17: 00
                0
                Quote: Alexey RA
                Three and a half - T-80 in gas turbine and diesel versions can be considered one and a half types.

                The T-80UD nevertheless missed the Kharkov freak for a couple of years.
                Quote: Alexey RA
                seventeenth modification of the T-72

                Lada Niva Legend.

                It was always interesting whether the patriots would survive the news that just as the failure of the MBT-70 created for some time the qualitative superiority of the USSR in terms of tanks, so the "greatest geopolitical catastrophe" led to the fact that the Soviet Leo2 never appeared. But there are about 2 thousand tanks of the Leo15 generation and later.
          4. alexey sidykin
            alexey sidykin 1 December 2022 08: 26
            0
            Gurulev, in my opinion, is a very muddy personality. He has a lot of provocative statements.
            1. bayard
              bayard 1 December 2022 09: 20
              0
              Quote: Alexey Sedykin
              Gurulev, in my opinion, is a very muddy personality

              This is a military personality - in the past, the commander of the army, who retired as a deputy. He speaks and thinks and acts like a military man. Do not demand much from the military in politeness, but about military issues, and in wartime, he will not tell you everything.
              With the T-62, everything was much simpler (with those that appeared in the SVO) - they were at the nearest storage base, they were easier and faster than others to return to service, and they were armed with units of the corps of the republics of Donbass. They just added tanks where there were no tanks before. And now they (tanks) are there.
    2. alexey2073
      alexey2073 23 October 2022 06: 06
      +5
      No, you're wrong,. It's much worse. In village rumors, as in a fairy tale, truth and lies are in the proportion of 50/50. And in modern media and the like, there are only speculations and a rich fantasy of glitches laughing
      1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Thrifty
      Thrifty 23 October 2022 06: 28
      -6
      I looked at the photo, if they modernize it this way, they will quickly be knocked out, because the naked tower is defenseless, and in general, dynamic protection is not visible at close range! And with its 115mm T62 gun in modern combat, an outsider when meeting with the same T64. It is better to modernize the T80 and T90, only for real, and not sculpt them a la T72B3, with gaps between the d / z blocks on the tower.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 23 October 2022 06: 41
        +4
        Quote: Thrifty
        if they modernize like this, they will be quickly knocked out, because the naked tower, defenseless, and in general, dynamic protection is not visible at close range! And with its 115mm T62 gun in modern combat, an outsider when meeting with the same T64

        There was an interesting article (Russia will receive 800 modernized T-62s - an act of desperation or a serious combat unit (Alexander Vorontsov)) which examined the possibility of using these tanks not as a classic tank, but as an infantry fighting vehicle.
        1. S. Nikolaev
          S. Nikolaev 23 October 2022 07: 39
          0
          There was an interesting article (Russia will receive 800 modernized T-62s - an act of desperation or a serious combat unit (Alexander Vorontsov)) which examined the possibility of using these tanks not as a classic tank, but as an infantry fighting vehicle.

          It would be reasonable. And given that everything was more or less cleared up with the "modernization of 800 T-62" thanks to the observant author of the note (Perov), we can hope that common sense is still present there, and they will not massively sculpt a modern tank from the T-62, which he can never be. In the end, you can find a worthy use for him - from self-propelled guns to a tractor with a gun - there would be a desire.
          1. Sergey028
            Sergey028 23 October 2022 07: 58
            +4
            A self-propelled gun from the T-62 will be like a bullet from a threshing floor, and the role of a tractor for a cannon, with four crew members, you know, is such a thing ... No one will use this tank like that.
            1. S. Nikolaev
              S. Nikolaev 23 October 2022 08: 34
              +2
              Self-propelled gun from the T-62 will be like a bullet from the threshing floor

              Come on! Self-propelled gun 115 mm, you don’t even need to tow it, it drives itself.

              and the role of a tractor for a gun, with four crew members, you know, is such a

              What is it? Calculation in the tank good
              1. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 23 October 2022 15: 43
                +5
                Ideally, to develop one set of optics for the commander with a gunner (panorama with a sight + all this is stabilized + a heat channel here and there) and put all this economy on everything modernized from T-62 to T-90 + Octopus, BMP, BMD and td (with a correction in the software, this is quite possible) With a large batch, the price would be lower, and it is not necessary to relearn much when changing equipment by the crew.
                1. S. Nikolaev
                  S. Nikolaev 23 October 2022 15: 59
                  0
                  Quote: Bad_gr
                  Ideally, to develop one set of optics for the commander with a gunner (panorama with a sight + all this is stabilized + a heat channel here and there) and put all this economy on everything modernized from T-62 to T-90 + Octopus, BMP, BMD and td (with a correction in the software, this is quite possible) With a large batch, the price would be lower, and it is not necessary to relearn much when changing equipment by the crew.

                  Yes, maybe. It would be nice
        2. Monster_Fat
          Monster_Fat 23 October 2022 08: 19
          +3
          Use as an infantry fighting vehicle ... that is, to deliver infantry to the battlefield? And where will this infantry be located? On armor? Like during WWII?
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 23 October 2022 08: 52
            +2
            Quote: Monster_Fat
            And where will this infantry be located? On armor?

            So she rides on armor anyway.
          2. AvesevA
            AvesevA 23 October 2022 14: 55
            +6
            You apparently didn't read that article. Use the T-62, not as an infantry fighting vehicle, but as a means of fire support for motorized riflemen. T-62 will show itself much better as fire support than any BMP
        3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 October 2022 11: 15
          +1

          There was an interesting article (Russia will receive 800 modernized T-62s - an act of desperation or a serious combat unit (Alexander Vorontsov)) which examined the possibility of using these tanks not as a classic tank, but as an infantry fighting vehicle.

          V. Shpakovsky suggested using the first 62 as a "BMP", if memory serves in 2010.
          In reality, as a reinforcement of the infantry, 62 ran back in the second Chechen. Some with ZSU-23 above the engine compartment.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 23 October 2022 11: 36
            +1
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            V. Shpakovsky suggested using the first 62 as a "BMP", if memory serves in 2010.

            Maybe I didn't hear
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 October 2022 15: 04
              0

              I do not know if there is an Internet or not. However, the decision to land troops on the tank is pretentious.
      2. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 23 October 2022 06: 44
        +1
        The article does not contain a photo of the option that with dynamic protection on the tower, it is from the sides, take a closer look. On the Internet, you can easily find that option.
        1. Thrifty
          Thrifty 23 October 2022 07: 39
          -4
          German4223-from the sides of Kantakt5, and the tower is naked! Or, will the enemy fight like we do in a gentlemanly way? Will they throw toys at the tower, shoot from hunting rifles? With such protection, the tank will not fight for a minute in battle, it will simply be burned!
          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 23 October 2022 07: 56
            0
            I will reprint again
            “The article does not contain a photo of the option that with dynamic protection on the tower, it is from the sides, take a closer look. You can easily find that option on the Internet.”
            1. Thrifty
              Thrifty 23 October 2022 09: 11
              -4
              German 4223-there is Contact 1 or 5, which is not protection, but self-deception! Even what five gives the equivalent of protection, up to 500mm? With such protection, tanks will be shot jokingly!
              1. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 23 October 2022 14: 56
                +2
                Quote: Thrifty
                The article does not contain a photo of the option that with dynamic protection on the tower, it is from the sides, take a closer look. On the Internet, you can easily find that option.

      3. garri-lin
        garri-lin 23 October 2022 07: 32
        +2
        As for the weapon, you are fundamentally wrong. BOPS can be done there, oh what a wonderful one. Only due to the total length of the projectile.
        The question of whether they will do it or not is of course open.
        1. Thrifty
          Thrifty 23 October 2022 07: 53
          -4
          harri-lin-we have a lot of things not only possible, but even possible, however, only in theory! How long will the same new BOPS not be made, but put into service, choose a place for production? These are not months but years from our It will take the bureaucratic system! We still have the same T14 that has not passed military tests, and money is allocated for it according to the residual principle. And how they lied to the whole planet about 2000 T14 tanks by 2020! Therefore, antiques have to be modernized!
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 23 October 2022 10: 50
            0
            The production of shells and barrels is alive. Regular BOPS for this gun penetration of 300 mm. Kumul 450. Little. But it doesn’t take much time to simply change the crowbar itself and gunpowder.
            If we oppose the modernized T 62 with old ammunition to modern tanks, then there will be little use in the forehead. But if not modern, then it will be useful. Or with a new BOPS.
        2. Sergey Aleksandrovich
          Sergey Aleksandrovich 23 October 2022 10: 24
          0
          Information about ordering new barrels for 115-mm caliber fits into this logic, in the preparation of a backup version of the confrontation with the Abrams.
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 23 October 2022 10: 51
            +1
            Well, against Abrams, the T 62 will pull weakly.
            1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
              Sergey Aleksandrovich 23 October 2022 16: 18
              +1
              For people like you, the "Made in the USA" label immediately makes weapons unsurpassed and invincible. You have it sewn up at the level of religion, and therefore I won’t even argue with arguments, it’s useless.
              1. garri-lin
                garri-lin 23 October 2022 19: 39
                +1
                pragmatic view of things. Even if you take the Sheksna, then the armor penetration is 750. Abrams is not enough for the forehead.
                BOPS 500 is the maximum of the existing ones.
                In principle, a meter-long scrap can be placed in a projectile. But the speed of those that are 1650. I think it is impossible to increase the speed much. The tensile strength of the barrel may not allow it. A good new scrap will allow you to fight with what the Ukrainians have and with the fact that Eastern Europeans can warm them up. But against a really modern tank, head-on, it definitely won’t pull.
                No need to try to make a superweapon out of an old man.
                1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
                  Sergey Aleksandrovich 23 October 2022 20: 07
                  -4
                  A little more, pull up, maybe I'll believe.
                  1. garri-lin
                    garri-lin 23 October 2022 20: 28
                    -2
                    It would be something to try. You are always trying to invent a child prodigy from old components.
                    1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
                      Sergey Aleksandrovich 23 October 2022 20: 32
                      -1
                      At the level of religious attachment to the United States, I do not discuss technical issues, serve yourself.
            2. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 24 October 2022 22: 45
              0
              Quote: garri-lin
              Well, against Abrams, the T 62 will pull weakly.

              And they will attack him in droves. laughing
              1. garri-lin
                garri-lin 24 October 2022 23: 34
                0
                Well, in principle, such dances worked out even in World War II. You can remember if needed.
                But in the normal concept of war, tanks rarely fight tanks. Tanks must support the infantry. And for this, and especially in defense, the T62 will have enough strength.
                And in extreme cases, you can go out against Abrams with the whole village. I do not think that they will give Ukraine a lot.
      4. Barberry25
        Barberry25 23 October 2022 08: 24
        +1
        and you don’t throw the tank into a thoughtless attack and there will be happiness
        1. Thrifty
          Thrifty 23 October 2022 09: 18
          -3
          Barberry25 - even a smart attack won't change much! A normal ambush, and one shot from an RPG29 will turn a tank with a crew into a grave. By the way, there was information that the Yankees supplied TOYs, they even seized some of them from the caches. So, the point is not only what kind of attack, but the effectiveness of the tank's defense.
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 23 October 2022 09: 22
            0
            a shot from an RPG-29 in the side of ANY tank will turn it into a destroyed tank, and with respect to the Tou-flag in hand, there will be no more disposable anti-tank systems.
            1. Thrifty
              Thrifty 23 October 2022 09: 34
              -5
              Barberry 25th about the fact that the T62, it must be admitted, how the tank on the battlefield has outlived its usefulness! turn to send the crew to death! There are thousands of other tanks in the "box" of the army, first of all, T72, T80, T90. These tanks need to be modernized!
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 23 October 2022 10: 42
                +3
                well, with the same success, you can call the T-90M obsolete ... but seriously, it all depends on the tasks, before the t-62m the main task is fire support for the supporters, i.e. the tank is in the second line of defense and works according to coordinates or a direct request if necessary. there is no talk of direct tank battles
              2. AdAstra
                AdAstra 23 October 2022 10: 51
                +4
                Yes, probably there are no "thousands" 72,80,90 sold out and taken away, so the old man of the 62nd is walking through.
                1. lis-ik
                  lis-ik 23 October 2022 15: 16
                  +1
                  Quote from AdAstra
                  Yes, probably there are no "thousands" 72,80,90 sold out and taken away, so the old man of the 62nd is walking through.

                  It is this option that comes to mind for any sane person, and everyone laughed at Ukraine. The same Gabon, why does it support us?
                  1. AdAstra
                    AdAstra 23 October 2022 16: 27
                    0
                    I did not laugh and assumed something detailed, because the conversations were going on, and not just armat, 90 still no and no. hi
      5. donavi49
        donavi49 23 October 2022 08: 36
        +4
        Forehead - Brezhnev pad + contact.
        Tower - cast + contact (Brezhnev's eyebrows are cut down).
        Skirts - contact.

        1. Thrifty
          Thrifty 23 October 2022 08: 58
          -8
          Donavi 49 - even in this photo, a third of the turret is not closed for c / z, and the second tank in the photo has a turret without it at all! And, according to anyone in battle, a 125mm gun is much better than 115mm. You need to upgrade T80 and T90!
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 23 October 2022 09: 22
            +4
            those. the fact that this is a tank at the factory does not bother you?
            1. Thrifty
              Thrifty 23 October 2022 09: 37
              -5
              Barberry25 - it just infuriates me! From the mind of lack, they want to turn a weak, hopelessly outdated car into a budget category supertank!
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 23 October 2022 10: 45
                0
                but what is the actual problem? we have a plant that can capitalize these tanks. due to modernization with the installation of DZ, FCS, optics, we get a car that can do everything the same as the t-72b3, while they can be obtained a lot and cheaper. .to understand the same BTRZ promises to modernize 800 tanks of various types in 3 years, and this is 260-270 tanks a year for a second, and several factories produce those de t-72b3 together with t-80bvm from the strength of 150-180 vehicles.
                1. Bad_gr
                  Bad_gr 23 October 2022 15: 08
                  0
                  Quote: donavi49
                  Forehead - Brezhnev pad + contact.
                  Tower - cast + contact (Brezhnev's eyebrows are cut down).
                  Skirts - contact.

                  Among the upgraded T-62 tanks, there are two directions.
                  T-62M (where the bias is for additional armor, that is, against kinetic projectiles)

                  and T-62MV (here it is mainly against the threat of enemy cumulative ammunition)
                  1. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 23 October 2022 15: 42
                    +1
                    well, for me it’s better to remove the eyebrows and put a DZ, more relevant, the eyebrows are still not very relevant against 125 mm, so it’s better to put contact-5
              2. Barberry25
                Barberry25 23 October 2022 11: 16
                -1
                so that they understand, according to the same Intelligence Officer, the bulk of the mobs will not be motorized rifle units, but infantry / rifle regiments, i.e. we don’t have enough equipment to equip 300, so we changed the look of the units, so what’s the point of toughening the situation even more when the main unit of the air defense system is UAVs and artillery?
                1. lis-ik
                  lis-ik 23 October 2022 15: 18
                  0
                  Quote: Barberry25
                  so that they understand, according to the same Intelligence Officer, the bulk of the mobs will not be motorized rifle units, but infantry / rifle regiments, i.e.

                  That is, history is still moving in a spiral, and we rolled back to the First World War.
                  1. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 23 October 2022 15: 45
                    0
                    more likely to the fact that we do not have 30 armored vehicles in reserve that can be deployed in a month, and the task, as I understand it, is to compensate for losses in the first place, to deploy to the regular strength of the unit, and now there may be 000-120 soldiers in the battalion be instead of the prescribed 200, not to mention the fact that the bulk will hold the front, and they need more heavy weapons such as anti-tank missiles, dshk, mortar + drones than conditional infantry fighting vehicles or armored personnel carriers with tanks
                    1. lis-ik
                      lis-ik 23 October 2022 15: 53
                      +1
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      rather, to the fact that we do not have 30 armored vehicles in reserve that can be deployed in a month

                      Yes, this has long been clear to those who at least know how to read and think, and do not look stupidly Russia 1.
                      1. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 23 October 2022 16: 55
                        0
                        Well, I also suggested in other topics, the basis in the form of mraps: Kamaz shot / damask steel, gas snowstorm / tiger / athlete, Ural military-industrial complex / stamp
                      2. lis-ik
                        lis-ik 23 October 2022 17: 03
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        Well, I also suggested in other topics, the basis in the form of mraps: Kamaz shot / damask steel, gas snowstorm / tiger / athlete, Ural military-industrial complex / stamp

                        It's expensive, MCI and without weapons is not a cheap thing, who will go for it with us. It’s necessary to do everything again, but it’s much easier to book a truck and pass it off as a new one. although they are in no hurry to do this en masse, piece Typhoons do not count.
                      3. cold wind
                        cold wind 23 October 2022 17: 07
                        -1
                        Quote: lis-ik

                        It's expensive, MCI and without weapons is not a cheap thing, who will go for it with us. It’s necessary to do everything again, but it’s much easier to book a truck and pass it off as a new one. although they are in no hurry to do this en masse, piece Typhoons do not count.

                        The best option for an armored car is the Z-STS Akhmat. Three times cheaper than a similar typhoon, but in terms of real combat qualities it is not inferior. And it must be done.
                      4. lis-ik
                        lis-ik 23 October 2022 17: 11
                        0
                        And the bottom corresponds to the MCI category, I'm just not familiar with this car. It’s hard to imagine how to remake everything from Kamaz without affecting the transmission?
                      5. cold wind
                        cold wind 23 October 2022 17: 18
                        0
                        Of course, it does not reach the MRAP class, but there is mine protection and this is not so necessary now. There is no terrorist/mine war going on. Bulletproof / projectile protection is much more important, it is.
                        They made a car by order of those who are at war, they know what they need and what not. They also paid for it with their (conditionally) money.
                      6. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 23 October 2022 17: 15
                        +1
                        depending on what, if you make "ceramic armor and independent everything", then of course it's expensive, but if you take proven versions, then it's cheaper than armored personnel carriers, especially since putting a dshk or a turret from an armored personnel carrier-60/70 is not for long. And yes .. the key point is the chassis from civilian trucks i.e. you can make a lot of them. Forget about typhoons, it's too expensive. To understand, look at the models that I voiced
                      7. lis-ik
                        lis-ik 23 October 2022 17: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        . And yes .. the key point is the chassis from civilian trucks i.e. you can do a lot of them

                        How do you imagine the chassis from ordinary trucks with a V-shaped bottom? This is very problematic. Those. in fact, it will be a new layout, and it is with this that the design of the car begins.
                      8. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 23 October 2022 17: 44
                        +1
                        somehow they simply put an armored capsule on top of the KAMAZ-4326 chassis.

        2. The comment was deleted.
      6. Alexander_Snegirev
        Alexander_Snegirev 23 October 2022 08: 47
        -1
        Quote: Thrifty
        looked at the photo

        About the modernization of the T-62M at the 103rd armored repair plant. There are photos from the factory. You can see the replacement of Ilyich's eyebrows with contact 1 on the T-62. Perhaps this will make it possible to unload the suspension in front, like a tank diving with its nose on rough terrain. The point in the budgetary modernization of 60-year-old tanks, which includes, among other things, the installation of contact 1 dynamic protection and a new sighting system with a thermal imager, lies in the large losses of materiel since the beginning of the SVO. mobilization option.


      7. donavi49
        donavi49 23 October 2022 08: 51
        +9
        T80 - restore. Canned food is very shabby and only comes to life through a repair plant. Plus a large percentage of understaffing.
        T90 - there is no point in upgrading them. How many run away, so much run away. They were put in storage ushatannye (including training) + storage itself is not according to technology + dismantling of the level that is screwed and welded - recaptured.
        T72A - a detachment is needed so that the crew does not fall out of this coffin without an FCS in the first landing. And yes, they are raised as they can. Also through the repair plant.
        T72B - there are not so many of them anymore, plus this is a valuable resource for the T72B3.
        1. Thrifty
          Thrifty 23 October 2022 09: 02
          -5
          Donavi 49 I don’t remember the exact index of the upgrade version, but all T72s need to be upgraded to the Slingshot version, which has much better protection than even T72B3, about other versions of T72 h index, A, B, C, I generally keep quiet!
          1. donavi49
            donavi49 23 October 2022 09: 06
            +5
            The slingshot died a long time ago and decomposed. This is a very expensive upgrade option, which was wrapped up, precisely because it is expensive. Well, actually this is already enough - reworking the project for real import substitution and unit cost, in the current conditions, to forget about slingshots and so on.

            More likely, some thread of the T-72B3 (mob) with K1 on the VLD, communication and sight of the 1PN96MT type will appear, and the rest is repair from the usual beshka.
            1. Thrifty
              Thrifty 23 October 2022 09: 23
              0
              Donavi49 - perhaps the Slingshot was expensive, but it is more reliable, it was necessary to give a mass order, and the price would automatically fall to an acceptable value. Simply, any version for T62 Contact 1 or 5, with a low level of protection up to 600mm maximum. ATGM Barrier or Strung give armor penetration up to 900mm, I am silent about Cornet or Vampire, they will bury tanks en masse.
            2. AdAstra
              AdAstra 23 October 2022 10: 57
              -1
              Sawing iron is expensive! And putting people in the ground is not expensive? Well, yes, they give birth for mother capital. Here are such talkers about expensive iron, who are sure that they will not fight there later on this iron and shove it.
      8. Thrifty
        Thrifty 23 October 2022 12: 28
        +2
        Opanki, how the T62 fans have dispersed! Minusers, who have a conscience left, honestly write, are you ready to go into battle right now on your fitness, on the T62? I expect only an honest answer from those who have a conscience left!
    4. Yura
      Yura 23 October 2022 16: 46
      0
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      It's like in a village... at one end of the village an old woman sneezed, then at the other end another old woman shouts guards... they kill... with all the details of a terrible crime.
      The media is the same village with grandmas ... just to blurt out something.

      Word of mouth news, well, or word of mouth Tegram.
  2. Silver99
    Silver99 23 October 2022 06: 27
    +1
    When Gurulev starts broadcasting, I switch (((deep antipathy towards him, starting from his biography and track record, to delusional showdowns of the situation on the NVO front, Only irresponsible talkers are dragged on TV (((
  3. Stas157
    Stas157 23 October 2022 06: 51
    +8
    Article that Gurulev reported on the modernization of 800 tanks at the plant, which is engaged in the modernization of the T-62.

    The author does not know any other information. Neither the number nor the types of other tanks, which supposedly, according to the author, will have to be modernized. Therefore, he proposes to play chamomile:

    . how many modernized T-62Ms are planned for release. Them can be ten units, can and a hundred and can and all two hundred

    ... and can be 700 or all 800.
    The author accuses others of idle talk, but he himself has something to do with this.

    But most importantly. Even if the T-62M will be modernized not by 800, but somewhat less - the essence of people's fair reproaches regarding the supply of obsolete vehicles, this does not change in any way.
    1. Barberry25
      Barberry25 23 October 2022 08: 25
      -2
      it is better for people with their reproaches to first study the term "mobilization reserve vehicle"
      1. cold wind
        cold wind 23 October 2022 11: 38
        +1
        Quote: Barberry25
        it is better for people with their reproaches to first study the term "mobilization reserve vehicle"

        Just the same, people understand that there is a need for these tanks in case of loss of the main fleet and reserve.
        Before the war, we had ~ 3000 tanks in service, of which about 1200-1300 were lit up on oryx. For the dull ones, they are destroyed, damaged, captured with photo/video proof. Naturally, in reality, the losses are even greater. This confirms that tanks from the reserve went after the tanks from the reserve.
        To this question. How did we lose our tank armies? Where did the reserve of normal tanks go?
        1. Barberry25
          Barberry25 23 October 2022 14: 20
          0
          About Oryx is a trash can, and part of the "loss of Russia" is rewritten dry tanks. About the topic of conversation, if you know that there have been battles for 8 months, then there are losses, as it were. you demand "immediately put t90m into the troops and put t-14 thousand" ...
        2. Barberry25
          Barberry25 23 October 2022 14: 42
          0
          and yes, if we already raise the issue of Oryx, then we have big losses on it, which means they need to be compensated, which means we need to raise questions of where and what can be produced to compensate for the lost equipment, I personally see this in the form of the production of MCIs based on civilian trucks, expanding the capabilities of armored personnel carriers, additional deployment of the capacities of cartridge and powder factories, expanding the production of UAVs completely on a domestic basis and for tanks - to raise the question of the possibility of deploying the production of tanks of the t-90m type or its mobilization version at Omsk sites.
        3. lis-ik
          lis-ik 23 October 2022 15: 22
          0
          Quote from cold wind
          Where did the reserve of normal tanks go

          Money loves silence, in vain do I support the poor countries of Africa, for a small penny, the reserve has left.
        4. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 23 October 2022 15: 23
          +3
          Quote from cold wind
          Just the same, people understand that these tanks become necessary when the main fleet and reserve are lost.
          And other people understand that T-62s go to the troops not instead of other tanks, but instead of 4 fighters in body armor and with machine guns. Now these 4 will have tank armor with a cannon and a machine gun instead of armor + their own individual weapons (just in case).
          The main thing here is that they should be used according to their capabilities, and not according to some concepts.
    2. cold wind
      cold wind 23 October 2022 11: 31
      +1
      Quote: Stas157

      But most importantly. Even if the T-62M will be modernized not by 800, but somewhat less - the essence of people's fair reproaches regarding the supply of obsolete vehicles, this does not change in any way.

      And if more of them are upgraded? After all, we are talking about only 1 plant. Why didn't any of the officials deny this news?
      In the oryx there are already photos of 40 T-62s we lost, on the network there is a video with the transportation of hundreds of T-62s by railway.

      Dreamers about using the T-62 as an infantry fighting vehicle, self-propelled guns and other nonsense. The tank can be used as a tank on the defensive and as a tank on the offensive. Otherwise, the tank cannot be used; it is extremely versatile in itself. They are fighting with what is here and now, they will be under the command of the T-62 commander, he went on the attack on them.
      1. Barberry25
        Barberry25 23 October 2022 14: 45
        0
        now we have a problem in the form of a lack of equipment and personnel, and if the tanks are worse in quality, but there will be more of them than the enemy’s and the density of troops will be higher, then this will give the so-called synergistic effect .. a simple example is a defender with the coolest equipped fighters, but at 5-7 km it will be less effective than the standard line of defense at the rate of a battalion of 500 bayonets per 5 km, if it is equipped with the necessary means, then the result will be many times higher
  4. Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 23 October 2022 06: 53
    -4
    I think the article is not bad, how about analyzing the origin of geranium 2? Iran seems to have officially disowned them, ours also do not confirm this information. Ukraine can simply wage an information war in this regard, showing the failure of our military-industrial complex and at the same time fulfill an order from the United States against Iran.
    1. Thrifty
      Thrifty 23 October 2022 07: 20
      0
      I collect German 4223rd Geranium 2 in the basement on my knee, invented it together with my neighbor Ivan Ivanovich, did this information make it easier for you to breathe ???
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 23 October 2022 07: 25
        -2
        Well then, you're great. Keep working.
    2. Alex92
      Alex92 23 October 2022 09: 45
      +1
      The Soviet Union in the Arab-Israeli wars also officially denied sending the S-75 and other things with the personnel of the USSR Armed Forces, which you are talking about, of course they will deny
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 25 October 2022 22: 33
        0
        And where did you hear that the USSR denied the supply of any weapons? The supply of weapons even to North Korea during the war there was not denied, only there was no mention of personnel.
        1. Alex92
          Alex92 29 October 2022 08: 46
          0
          On the Zvezda channel, a series of films "Military missions for special purposes", 1, 5-6 series, 2017-2018.
    3. Santa Fe
      Santa Fe 23 October 2022 11: 53
      +3
      how about dismantling the origin of geranium 2? Iran seems to have officially disowned them

      Everyone understands what kind of device it is and where it comes from

      As in the nursery rhyme "... Opa is, but there is no word"
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 25 October 2022 22: 29
        0
        And for example, I want to first hear the official version of the origin. Now she is gone, there are only guesses, and they come from Ukraine. Maybe they really are from Iran, or maybe they just look alike. Someone thrifty really claims that he collects geraniums in his basement, who knows, maybe it's true laughing
        1. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 27 October 2022 08: 47
          +3
          And for example, I want to first hear the official version of the origin

          Who will testify against himself? Have you seen a similar phenomenon anywhere?

          Voluntarily confess to something for which there will certainly be accusations and criticism?

          The lack of own "mopeds" and the need to purchase such "high-tech weapons" in Iran is a shameful fact, which is better not to focus on and quickly forget about it. Therefore, no official statements from the current leadership of the Russian Federation should not be expected. It is also not profitable for Iran to recognize the supply of these "mopeds" at the official level.
  5. Tagan
    Tagan 23 October 2022 07: 23
    -3
    Quote: Stas157

    ... and can be 700 or all 800.
    The author accuses others of idle talk, but he himself has something to do with this.

    But most importantly. Even if the T-62M will be modernized not by 800, but somewhat less - the essence of people's fair reproaches regarding the supply of obsolete vehicles, this does not change in any way.

    Are you better informed? Or will you argue that all 800? Maybe you know exactly for what purposes this or that model is taken?
    "fair reproaches" is, in your opinion, probably the predilection of the "liberal" public for throwing on the fan. In your circles, you can't do without it.
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 23 October 2022 08: 02
      +3
      Quote: Tagan
      Are you better informed? Or will you argue that all 800? Maybe you know for sure

      So I don't write articles. And I do not mislead good people.

      Quote: Tagan
      addiction"liberal public to throw on the fan. In your circles, without it, nothing

      Come on! More liberal than your caps, with eternal approval and hesitation along with the policy of the Edra party, cannot be found on our website.
    2. lis-ik
      lis-ik 23 October 2022 15: 24
      0
      Quote: Tagan
      in your opinion, this is probably the predilection of the "liberal" public for throwing on the fan

      Well, you probably don’t need a guarantor. Otherwise, according to his statement, he is the main liberal.
  6. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 23 October 2022 07: 54
    -2
    On the modernization of 800 T-62 tanks no one said: how an elephant was inflated from a post in telegrams
    Bastards, it's time to introduce responsibility for the "bazaar". request This work for the enemy should be adequately rewarded. feel
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 23 October 2022 08: 26
      +4
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      Bastards, it's time to introduce responsibility for the "bazaar"

      The tank does not seem to be bad, according to the author. He proves it! So why then is the figure of 800 modernized t-62m so scary? I have a template break!
  7. Boniface
    Boniface 23 October 2022 08: 17
    0
    my thoughts:
    1. I am a “naval” officer, for me, all tanks are the same lol - in appearance, except that I recognize the T-34 and the IS-100
    2. Something in the public theme of "Javelins" and other similar rubbish - "came to naught." All, Pig war played enough?
    1. Thrifty
      Thrifty 23 October 2022 09: 05
      0
      Boniface-censorship in action! Even here there were articles like Javelin trash, and photos of tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers burned by combat "junk" were quickly deleted from the Internet.
  8. Barberry25
    Barberry25 23 October 2022 08: 22
    0
    my respect to the author, he himself wrote about this many times on the topvarchik, for which he was repeatedly minus. The only thing I hope is that if the mast is abandoned, more / less modern optics will be installed to be able to detect the enemy at night at long distances
  9. Tagan
    Tagan 23 October 2022 08: 29
    -5
    Quote: Stas157

    Come on! More liberal than your caps, with eternal approval and hesitation along with the policy of the Edra party, cannot be found on our website.

    You, citizen mourner of the Berlin patient, are a little lying. Not surprised by this. Unless, in general, I really am more tolerant of the policy of the Yedra party than of the camp of your codpiece-fuhrer, which, in your opinion, means "approved." ))
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 23 October 2022 09: 52
      +4
      Quote: Tagan
      You, citizen mourner of the Berlin patient

      And why did you suddenly decide so? Dreamed of something?

      Quote: Tagan
      generally I really am more tolerant of the politics of the Yedra party

      Not just more tolerant. She has no choice!
  10. Bingo
    Bingo 23 October 2022 08: 31
    0
    The author is a plus, otherwise the ducks really got it. Well, in all seriousness they wrote that "FSE tanks were burned"! Yes, there are more than 90 T-600s alone, when did they manage to burn them?
  11. svp67
    svp67 23 October 2022 08: 39
    0
    I support the author in not understanding why spending a lot of money on such a modernization of the T-62, but not solving the two main problems of this tank, and this is low armor resistance and the presence of a gun of a different caliber than on the bulk of our tanks.
    I believe that the modernization of the T-62 should be carried out in two versions, namely with a complete replacement of the tower, in the first case, install towers from T-72B or T-64/80, which is not difficult, and it is into it that new electronics and most importantly KAZ are cram , in the second, remake them in BMPT. Since such vehicles are really needed and instead of them they are now forced to use light armored BMP-2s in tandem with the tank
    1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
      Sergey Aleksandrovich 23 October 2022 10: 08
      +1
      And why do you certainly want to disassemble a completely combat T-62, and not a much more outdated T-55? Promote the conversion of the T-55 into the BMPT, then it will look more or less proportionate. The chassis is almost the same.
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 23 October 2022 15: 33
        +2
        Quote: svp67
        I believe that the modernization of the T-62 should be carried out in two ways, namely with the complete replacement of the tower,
        I would also change the hull from the chassis to from the T-72 or from the T-80.
        1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
          Sergey Aleksandrovich 23 October 2022 16: 48
          0
          I answer to the wrong address, but I really want to repeat what has already been said more than once. T-62 is discussed not for the first time with multiple repetitions in a circle, and so on.
          Disadvantages of the T-62:
          Weak armor compared to more modern T-64/72/80/90.
          Heavy, fully manual, tank driving and low power engine.
          Lack of modern optics, thermal imager and FCS (fire control system).
          Slightly weaker weapon and specific ammo that falls out of the general range.
          Small angle of elevation of the gun barrel.
          Manual loading and an additional crew member in the form of a loader.
          Some of the shortcomings are partially removed during the modernization.
          Advantages:
          Due to manual loading, the possibility of using longer sub-caliber ammunition, including those with a uranium core, to counter NATO heavy tanks. Indirectly confirmed by the recent order of new trunks. But it is not a fact that such ammunition is available.
          Also, due to manual loading, the possibility of using shrapnel shells with fixed detonation settings. Such shells are important in the city, as non-destructive buildings, and for combing wooded and other difficult terrain. Again, it is not a fact that such shells exist.
          The ability to fire without starting the engine, as there is no automatic loader. Makes the tank invisible on thermal imagers and for ATGMs with infrared guidance heads. Important when building defensive lines and when used at checkpoints.
          A fully accessible ammunition load of 38-42 rounds, which does not require tricks with a "carousel" and reloading the ammunition into an automatic loader.
          Sufficiently powerful 115-mm smoothbore gun with the ability to launch ATGMs through the barrel. A very perfect turret drive with a gun stabilizer, which still allows the tank to be considered a very formidable combat vehicle.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 23 October 2022 17: 50
            +2
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            T-62 is discussed not for the first time with multiple repetitions in a circle, and so .....
            I served on it for 2 years (of which, half a year as a senior driver)
            1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
              Sergey Aleksandrovich 23 October 2022 18: 21
              0
              In our MSP, they were in a tank company. I watched them work.
          2. svp67
            svp67 23 October 2022 21: 19
            +1
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            A fully accessible ammunition load of 38-42 rounds, which does not require tricks with a "carousel" and reloading the ammunition into an automatic loader.

            Only a person who was not on this tank as a loader can argue like this
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            A very perfect turret drive with a gun stabilizer,

            ... and the same gunner.
            1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
              Sergey Aleksandrovich 23 October 2022 21: 24
              -1
              Only a person who was not on this tank as a loader can argue like this
              And who is easy now? Is it easier to get shells outside the automatic loader on the T-72?
              And what, did you have to manually turn the T-62 tower? Is there no drive or did it not suit you with something?
              1. svp67
                svp67 24 October 2022 03: 53
                0
                Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                And what, I had to manually turn the T-62 tower

                had to
                Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                Is there no drive or did it not suit you with something?

                The point here is that it is outdated and does not provide the necessary "comfort" when shooting, especially on the move.
        2. svp67
          svp67 23 October 2022 21: 16
          0
          Quote: Bad_gr
          I would also change the hull from the chassis to from the T-72 or from the T-80.

          Great idea. But the hull, during long-term operation, is subjected to loads, as a result of which it becomes unusable, this does not happen with the tower. So, something like that.
      2. svp67
        svp67 23 October 2022 21: 17
        0
        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
        And why do you certainly want to disassemble a completely combat T-62, and not a much more outdated T-55?

        In the BMPT, you can even have a T-34, but it’s better to take the T-125 under the 62-mm cannon, it has a slightly larger turret shoulder strap than the T-72.
        1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
          Sergey Aleksandrovich 23 October 2022 21: 41
          -1
          Use the T-62 hull for a 125mm cannon? Is there enough space in the car for an automatic loader for your fantasies, or are you going to develop new unitary shots?
          1. svp67
            svp67 24 October 2022 03: 57
            0
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            Is there enough space in the car for an automatic loader for your fantasies, or are you going to develop new unitary shots?

            And there is enough space for the automatic loader and for the loading mechanism, more than enough, since there is plenty of reserved volume
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            Use the T-62 hull for a 125mm cannon?

            This "fantasy" is already full of incarnations, in different countries
  12. donavi49
    donavi49 23 October 2022 08: 42
    +8
    By article:
    T-62M from the 103rd BTRZ at the Army-2022 forum


    And it's not being used. Another, specially assembled version of the upgrade is used:
    new connection
    the 1PN96MT-02 sight is inferior, but the thermal imager is better than nothing + the FCS was upgraded anyway.
    There is no observation ball - it is also expensive for standing at roadblocks.
    Horns are hung on the combined overlay of the VLD along the Contact and everything is tightly coated with it.
    Eyebrows are cut off on the tower, the farm is boiled and coated with Contact like T-64/80 - at sharp angles.
    The sides of the bashi and the skirt are also protected by DZ.
    Engines and gearboxes are being moved over (that's right - because the ones opened from the DH were rushed without enumeration at the very first sneeze - the APU scored 30+ T-62s).

    The volume is really unknown. But the author of the article refutes 800 in this way - and why, this the only one in the country factory with tooling and competencies under T-62/55 should I upload something else? Where are the puffs? In any case, the T-62 is their main order, because it is a specialized one.
    1. Thrifty
      Thrifty 23 October 2022 09: 07
      0
      Donavi 49 in the same place d / z Contact1, rarely Contact5, which is generally hopelessly outdated and t 1 and 5, and now it is ineffective protection, more for complacency.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 23 October 2022 09: 16
        +8
        And what are the options? Either that or not at all. Here the question is this. Required:
        1) Import-substituted or import-dependent board without production difficulties.
        2) Mass character is necessary. What's the point of 30 tanks? A month later, it’s good if there is a company from them, and the rest are lost, left in the gray zone, sent for repairs. Even now, when there is no tough cut, both sides are intensively losing armored vehicles, 15-20 units daily, only those for which there is a photo and video.
        1. Thrifty
          Thrifty 23 October 2022 09: 42
          -1
          There are a million Donavi49 options, but most importantly, do not waste time and money on upgrading the T62, T54 / 55. They outlived their own, it was necessary to prepare for war in advance, increase the production of T90M a couple of years ago, at the same time increase the modernization of T89 and T90, they are in any version is much better than the grandfathers of the tank troops, such as the T62, and everything that was done in the USSR before!
  13. Khibiny Plastun
    Khibiny Plastun 23 October 2022 10: 30
    +3
    Gratitude to the grandfathers and a deep bow, for these innumerable herds of tanks, which are still helping out. Thank you that it is still possible to take and modernize something, otherwise all these "unparalleled" ones are available only in parade quantities.
    1. AdAstra
      AdAstra 23 October 2022 11: 02
      +5
      That's it, otherwise they were shouting what for the USSR made so many tanks, but there is no oil, and now "there it is, Mikhalych" © hi
      1. Khibiny Plastun
        Khibiny Plastun 23 October 2022 14: 38
        +2
        Those who gave orders then were not parquet generals, but were officers who had gone through the war and knew what was what. And who have reached the marshal stars, for a reason.
  14. Maks1995
    Maks1995 23 October 2022 10: 35
    +1
    Such an indicator. The media are so accustomed to .... "unfair PR" for the sake of someone, what is here about 800 62x
    In another place - "Ukrainian black soil is about to be sold all ... for the 3rd time", "fat is over", "a prominent and fundamental speech", "all NATO generals ran to the toilets out of fright" ...
  15. DenVB
    DenVB 23 October 2022 10: 49
    +3
    I'll just leave this here. The country must remember its heroes.
    08: 10 30.07.2018

    MOSCOW, July 30 - RIA Novosti. The Russian Armed Forces do not seek to massively purchase Armata tanks because of their high cost, preferring to increase the combat potential of existing military equipment through its modernization, Deputy Prime Minister Yury Borisov told reporters.

    “Well, why flood all the armed forces with Armats, our T-72 is in great demand on the market, everyone takes it, compared to the Abrams, Leclercs and Leopards, in terms of price, efficiency and quality, they are significantly The situation is the same with Boomerangs,” Borisov explained.

    "We do not have a special need for this (mass purchases of new equipment. - Ed.), These models are quite expensive in relation to the existing ones," the Deputy Prime Minister said.

    Instead, less money is spent on upgrading old equipment, allowing for budgetary savings.

    “We succeed, having a budget ten times smaller than the NATO countries, due to such effective decisions, when we look at the modernization potential of old models, to solve the tasks,” Borisov said.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 23 October 2022 11: 00
      +7
      So, it is here that Borisov is just a hero. If not for him, now they would not have been building theories about Kherson, but would have been planning the Perekop defensive operation and the Rostov defensive operation. For it was thanks to Borisov that the army received about 1000 modernized tanks. Which are taking everything out now, and are also a rather desirable trophy, and are actively used by the other side in the most elite units (93, 92, 14, 1 brigades).

      The conditional one hundred Armats would have ended in the spring, and then everything would have been - only Soviet tanks with an ancient SLA.
      1. DenVB
        DenVB 23 October 2022 11: 27
        -3
        Quote: donavi49
        For it was thanks to Borisov that the army received about 1000 modernized tanks.

        This seems to be the case for Stockholm Syndrome. Like, they could have completely killed, but they only beat them, for which I am very grateful to the robbers.

        The fact that the old tanks needed to be modernized is not even a question. They should have been modernized not a thousand, but much more. But the fact that they did not release new ones is a crime.

        The release of the new T-90M, I think is generally absurd. Buying new tanks for decent money, conceptually outdated thirty years ago - is that stupidity or treason?
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 23 October 2022 12: 00
          0
          Where is the money? Borisov worked in the conditions of the funding that was.

          The T-90M was initially purchased for parades and for export promotion. Losses on them are high, based on the number of used ones (3 in minus, 1 captured - with about 30 involved). But again, with the exception of the first, the circumstances of the loss of the rest were stupid (they rolled into mines, rolled into ravines, tore off the caterpillar and decided to regroup on another box).

          1. DenVB
            DenVB 23 October 2022 12: 12
            +7
            Quote: donavi49
            Where is the money? Borisov worked in the conditions of the funding that was.

            There was enough money.

            Let us recall only one trillion rubles invested in St. Petersburg real estate, which Shoigu boasted about in 2018. A trillion rubles is, if the calculator does not change me, about 4000 Armats.

            And besides - and who is to blame for the lack of money? Didn't Borisov himself contribute to this by making the above statements? He was supposed to sound the alarm that our tanks are ancient and not suitable for modern warfare, and he told tales about how these ancient tanks surpass Abrams in price and efficiency. And they obviously listened to him.
          2. Barberry25
            Barberry25 23 October 2022 14: 51
            +1
            well, in general, you need to take into account that also eternal races in the style of "we will not take the t-90A, since we quarreled with the UVZ, but we will take the t-72b3 and even instead of the t-72b2 Slingshot and then we will upgrade again and under the mantras about T- 14, this is also his jamb, as well as the refusal to purchase BTR-90 in anticipation of a promising platform and the current purchases of BTR-82a are also a jamb, do not forget about the refusal of the BMP-3 .. but they changed their minds there at least a few years later .. in general, the problem our MO is available.
            1. Sergei Kazarin
              Sergei Kazarin 23 October 2022 15: 26
              +1
              In general, they did not buy anything modern. The same Orion attack drones were developed under Serdyukov and flew already in 2015, but they thought of buying it only after Karabakh.
              Guided bombs Kab-500s were used in 2015 in Syria, but they never started to buy, as a result, all aviation with cast iron is almost useless
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 23 October 2022 15: 48
                +1
                1) the fact that Orion took off does not mean that it was ready for production in 2015, according to him alone a huge epic in 5 volumes was due to the adaptation of an engine purchased under license.
                2) If Kab-500S was not purchased, then where did they come from in the warehouses?
                1. Sergei Kazarin
                  Sergei Kazarin 23 October 2022 17: 05
                  -1
                  There was no licensed engine.
                  There were no problems riveting with Rotaxes, as Serdyukov did, and not waiting 20 years for the Russian military-industrial complex to give birth to something.
                  In warehouses? So why do the VKS with cast iron beat and from the cabling?
                  1. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 23 October 2022 17: 16
                    0
                    was not? tell it to the developers, they will show you all the difficulties on their fingers
                    1. Sergei Kazarin
                      Sergei Kazarin 23 October 2022 17: 46
                      0
                      Why should I show, I know about it better than you. There was an attempt to make a pirated copy of Rotax, there was no license there.
                      All the difficulties were due to incompetent bureaucrats of the Moscow Region, who constantly put forward new demands that cost money, but no one gave money
                      1. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 24 October 2022 17: 43
                        0
                        the fact that officials are the sources of problems does not negate the fact that these problems had to be solved later. In fact, we now have a situation "analogue of the 41st year", when they were preparing for the wrong war ..
                      2. Sergei Kazarin
                        Sergei Kazarin 24 October 2022 18: 27
                        -1
                        They didn’t solve any problems for 10 years, but arranged a circus with tank biathlons
                      3. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 24 October 2022 18: 28
                        0
                        we had a dispute about something else) you said that the Orions have been flying for a long time, but I mean that there were problems that needed to be solved
                  2. Bad_gr
                    Bad_gr 23 October 2022 18: 05
                    +1
                    Quote: Sergey Kazarin
                    Serdyukov ...
                    Now people called up for partial mobilization often wander along the corridors in designated buildings (or even in an open field) and equip themselves at the expense of handouts from the local population. Or they could come to a cropped military unit and get everything from uniforms with shoes to military equipment. But all these units were eliminated by Serdyukov's team.
                    Serdyukov's personality should not be cited as a positive example.
                    1. Sergei Kazarin
                      Sergei Kazarin 23 October 2022 18: 18
                      +1
                      Serdyukov plundered the uniform for the last 10 years?
                      Once again, everything modern that is in the army, ranging from Orlan drones, product 305 missiles to the best Typhoon MCIs, all from the time of Serdyukov.
                      Shoigu has mastered nothing in 10 years
                      1. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 23 October 2022 22: 15
                        0
                        Quote: Sergey Kazarin
                        Serdyukov plundered the uniform for the last 10 years?
                        He eliminated the cropped parts where it all was. And in order to recreate everything in a new way, it is necessary to raise this topic and invest money.

                        Quote: Sergey Kazarin
                        everything modern that is in the army ............. all from the time of Serdyukov.
                        It can be said in another way:
                        despite Serdyukov's "reforms", the industry survived.
                      2. Sergei Kazarin
                        Sergei Kazarin 23 October 2022 23: 17
                        -1
                        once again, what does the cropped parts have to do with the plundering of uniforms and other things under Shoigu?
                        Maybe the logic is bad, but in 10 years after Serdyukov they didn’t do anything, they didn’t even manage to massively purchase what was developed under him, like drones.
                        Not to mention that only under him the Russian army won and quickly
                      3. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 24 October 2022 00: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Sergey Kazarin
                        once again, what does the cropped parts have to do with the plundering of uniforms and other things under Shoigu?

                        A direct relationship, since it was stolen under Serdyukov, and under Shoigu, money and time are needed to restore these reserves.
                      4. Sergei Kazarin
                        Sergei Kazarin 24 October 2022 01: 31
                        0
                        Very funny, considering that under Shoigu, trillions were allocated for rearmament.
                        Maybe Russian is non-native, but I repeat once again, everything that is modern in the army, starting with drones, was created under Serdyukov, and that was 10 YEARS ago
                      5. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 24 October 2022 09: 44
                        0
                        Can you tell me for what reasons this genius of reforms moved the headquarters of the Navy of the Russian Federation from Moscow, with its anti-missile umbrella, to St. Petersburg? What was the need for this not cheap company?
                        And there are many questions like this:
                        .... During the reform of military education in 2011-2012. under the former Minister of Defense Anatoly Serdyukov, a significant part of military schools was liquidated, ....
                        Part of the schools, under Shoigu, restored
                        https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/articles/2015/05/08/pravitelstvo-vosstanovilo-shest-voennih-uchilisch-ranee-obedinennih-s-akademiyami

                        By the beginning of 2012, the total number of officer corps was initially decided to be reduced from 335 to 150 people, that is, more than twice. .........
                        ......... Minister of Defense Shoigu decided to return to service the most competent of the officers dismissed under Serdyukov ....
                        https://ria.ru/20130227/924922900.html

                        ..... Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov signed an order “On the liquidation of federal state institutions of culture and art under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation ...............
                        ..........Only in the Western Military District, the Ministry of Defense plans to put up for auction 32 cultural institutions, including those located in the center of Moscow, Kursk, Smolensk, Tula, Nizhny Novgorod, Voronezh and other cities. Many military camps will remain without cultural centers, including Zarya and Alabino near Moscow, in which large military garrisons are located .....
                        https://www.rbc.ru/society/20/11/2010/5703e08a9a79473c0df17219

                        Russian Defense Minister Serdyukov in 2012 carried out a reform aimed at the complete elimination of the Marine Corps of the Red Banner Pacific Fleet



                        And so on ...
                      6. Sergei Kazarin
                        Sergei Kazarin 24 October 2022 16: 45
                        -2
                        What kind of crap? What does it have to do with the failure in Ukraine.
                        Schools were reduced because they were designed for 4 million army of the USSR, now the army is 4 million.
                        Of course, instead of modern weapons, we need houses of culture in the army
                      7. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 25 October 2022 10: 32
                        +1
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        By the beginning of 2012, the total number of officer corps was initially decided to be reduced from 335 to 150 people, that is, more than twice. .........

                        335 thousand officers in an army of one million people. Isn't it a lot - one officer for two privates and sergeants? wink
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        Russian Defense Minister Serdyukov in 2012 carried out a reform aimed at the complete elimination of the Marine Corps of the Red Banner Pacific Fleet

                        It would be something to eliminate.
                        The 55th DMP, back in the days when the Ministry of Defense was controlled by professional military personnel, was reduced to 3100 people. Three thousand one hundred people in the division. Plus, the division lost tanks and artillery.
                        And yes, in the process of disbanding the division, the 155th infantry regiment was assembled from it. This is so funny complete elimination of the Marine Corps of the Red Banner Pacific Fleet.

                        At the Pacific Fleet, it would be better not to raise the topic of "liquidation" at all - after the crazy sale of the fleet career officers of the Soviet training in 90's.
                      8. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 25 October 2022 22: 30
                        0
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        335 thousand officers in an army of one million people. Isn't it a lot - one officer for two privates and sergeants?

                        I don’t know how many officers were laid off, how many of them themselves quit during this period, but there was information on the net that in some units they began to appoint sergeants as company commanders, since there were not enough officers for these positions.

                        All information on reforms is from the Internet, so I cannot vouch for the reliability of all data.
                      9. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 27 October 2022 10: 22
                        0
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        I don’t know how many officers were laid off, how many of them themselves quit during this period, but there was information on the net that in some units they began to appoint sergeants as company commanders, since there were not enough officers for these positions.

                        And they were not in the field before. In pre-Serdyukov times, the regimental commander of one of the court divisions lamented that in his link below the battalion, 90% of officer positions were occupied by jackets and sergeants. And this is in the presence of 335 officers and the release of 000 lieutenants a year.
                        And in Serdyukov's times, there was a cry from the heart of the major at the VIF: his headquarters position was reduced, and they wanted to transfer him from a warm office with work "from 9 to 18" to a battalion and give personnel into submission. Well, how can you atrocity over a living person, not for that he served all these years. laughing
                        In short, by the time Serdyukov arrived, our invincible and legendary back to the times General Yasha:
                        Arriving in the troops, I found 256 bayonets, 28 guns and with them the 2 division headquarters and the 1 corps headquarters, fully equipped!

                        And it was precisely those same office inmates without subordinates in positions of the times of the Soviet Army that drove the wave to the furniture maker about the dispersal of the army. Who, under Serdyukov (after bringing the headquarters headquarters in line with the real staff of the Armed Forces) were given a choice - either you go from the office to command in the field, courageously overcoming hardships and hardshipsor the army no longer needs you.
                      10. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 25 October 2022 23: 04
                        0
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        335 thousand officers in an army of one million people.
                        Army + Navy + Aviation + Space Forces
                        Or I'm wrong ?
                      11. alexmach
                        alexmach 24 October 2022 23: 33
                        0
                        He eliminated the cropped parts where it all was.

                        What is "all this"? modern weapons and equipment?
                      12. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 25 October 2022 12: 41
                        0
                        Quote: alexmach
                        He eliminated the cropped parts where it all was.

                        What is "all this"? modern weapons and equipment?

                        What is the difference between the framed part and the regular part? Only the human component reduced to a minimum (I don’t know how to say it more correctly when people are at a minimum).
                        There are a lot of videos on the net, where those called up for partial mobilization are warming themselves by fires in an open field, eating what they took from home, and in fact they could enter the barracks right away.
                      13. alexmach
                        alexmach 25 October 2022 14: 39
                        0
                        The network also has videos of people who entered the barracks and arranged a srach there. Organizational overlays during the mobilization carried out for the first time in ... how much? For 70 years, right? Such overlays are inevitable. But there were no modern equipment, weapons and equipment for these units anyway.
                      14. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 25 October 2022 10: 40
                        +1
                        Quote: Sergey Kazarin
                        missiles product 305

                        About "product 305" it's better not to. For it was created not thanks, but contrary army.
                        Army men with their pettiness (stages were not signed and paid) just brought to the close of work on the ancestor of the 305th - "product 79". And if it were not for the faces that intercepted the topic, allocated money (and changed the index to 305), then the "lemur" would have died without being born.
                      15. Sergei Kazarin
                        Sergei Kazarin 25 October 2022 15: 57
                        0
                        Product 305 was developed under Serdyukov and was ready in 2014, but under Shoigu, the Ministry of Defense did not buy it and saved the production of the FSB by ordering a small batch.
                    2. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 24 October 2022 17: 41
                      0
                      1) mobilized receive military uniforms
                      2) we didn’t have any cropped parts for 300 thousand mobs. But they would have devoured a bunch of resources over all these years with the same result: there is no crying about nothing and let’s collect the whole world. Do you really believe that we had exemplary cropped parts who showed themselves quite mediocre even during the USSR
                      1. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 25 October 2022 12: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        But they would gobble up a bunch of resources over all these years
                        By the way, Serdyukov also spoke in the same vein: they say there is no need to pay a military plant for the space it occupies, when some part of it is enough to produce products. If he said this about a civilian enterprise, then it would be understandable, but the military one works in different modes: in peacetime - one thing, in wartime - completely different.
                        A military conflict - and the output of military products must immediately be increased significantly. And how to do it if there are no areas with machines, no people, moreover, highly professional specialists. Where does all this come from?
                      2. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 25 October 2022 13: 05
                        0
                        and? do you think that just having an area you can increase production? and where to get employees? and working equipment? unexpectedly, but the deployment of production still requires resources.
                      3. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 25 October 2022 13: 21
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        and? do you think that just having an area can increase production? and where to get employees? and working equipment?
                        ??? What did I write about?
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        Where does all this come from?

                        And for additional space, and the salary of specialists must be paid even in peacetime.
                        Another question is how to download this resource in peacetime, so that it would not be a burden? but this resource should be.
                      4. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 25 October 2022 13: 47
                        0
                        that is, I understand correctly that you need to pay a certain salary to employees for 20-25 years, so that they can then, in theory, work in the production of weapons systems? production than to groan and gasp why bad Serdyukov 15 years ago demanded that military factories learn to work efficiently and not just sit on the state. order.
                      5. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 25 October 2022 14: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        So here it is necessary to raise a question in this case to the heads of the enterprise why they were not engaged in the deployment of the production of civilian products ......
                        Then the question may also be raised at the enterprise, why do they need equipment on their premises, on which, apart from military products, nothing else can be produced?
                        For example, a few years ago, the Urals bought a press that can stamp the roof of a welded tower at a time. You can’t use it in civilian life, it occupies a huge workshop, in peacetime it hardly works - who should pay for the rent of space?
                      6. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 25 October 2022 14: 48
                        0
                        what does "can only make military products" mean? earlier, for some reason, they could start making saucepans at rocket factories, but suddenly not?
                      7. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 25 October 2022 19: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        those. earlier, for some reason, they could start making saucepans at rocket factories, but then suddenly not?
                        If the goal is to once again ruin the country, then, yes, this can be done.
                      8. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 25 October 2022 21: 37
                        0
                        The goal should be to create a self-sufficient economic system that will provide for itself and be ready to export products .. but in our country until you order from above and scold 10 times, no one will do anything. Initiatives on the ground, you won’t wait
          3. Sergei Kazarin
            Sergei Kazarin 23 October 2022 15: 22
            0
            What funding? Trillions were allocated for rearmament under Shoigu and Borisov, and the army remained with all sorts of Orlans from the time of Serdyukov
      2. Negro
        Negro 23 October 2022 13: 37
        +6
        Quote: donavi49
        ak, it is here that Borisov is just a hero. If not for him, now they would not have been building theories about Kherson, but would have been planning the Perekop defensive operation and the Rostov defensive operation. For it was thanks to Borisov that the army received about 1000 modernized tanks. Which are taking everything out now, and are also a rather desirable trophy, and are actively used by the other side in the most elite units (93, 92, 14, 1 brigades).

        The conditional one hundred Armats would have ended in the spring, and then everything would have been - only Soviet tanks with an ancient SLA.

        )))
        The question is a little different.

        The T-62 tank was created in the early 60s against the backdrop of reports of a new British 105 mm cannon at that time. Accordingly, this is an approximate analogue of M60, M48A5, Leo1, AMX-30. The listed vehicles are quite combat-ready (when undergoing upgrades) and can perform all the tasks of tanks except for fighting modern tanks, even in relatively strong armies, for example, Turkish.

        But.

        After the T-62, the Soviet government made 40 in words FORTY THOUSAND main battle tanks T-000A / B, T-64 and T72. Well, OK, half loved, more than half. However, according to papers, 80 thousand pieces of this good are listed on the balance sheet. Even if 15 thousand are lost, this is not a reason to start talking about medium tanks. Where are the rest of the MBTs?
  16. rocket757
    rocket757 23 October 2022 11: 26
    -1
    Nobody talked about the modernization of 800 T-62 tanks: how an elephant was blown up from a telegram post
    . The current media can, they can do a lot ... and they’ll make an elephant out of a fly, it’s generally like two fingers on asphalt, it’s easy.
  17. Tagan
    Tagan 23 October 2022 13: 17
    0
    Quote: Stas157
    Quote: Tagan
    You, citizen mourner of the Berlin patient

    And why did you suddenly decide so? Dreamed of something?

    Quote: Tagan
    generally I really am more tolerant of the politics of the Yedra party

    Not just more tolerant. She has no choice!

    I don’t even remember that I once showed adherence to this party. But what is not a supporter of a liberal party (fifth column), like some, is for sure.
    Therefore, who dreamed of what here is a big question.
  18. the same doctor
    the same doctor 23 October 2022 14: 40
    -1
    Did not tell? But in vain. T-62 is an excellent platform for a combat robot, a drone. When used from closed positions, a great thing. And he has a powerful gun.
    1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
      Sergey Aleksandrovich 23 October 2022 16: 07
      +1
      In fact, the T-62 is controlled manually. It doesn't even have an automatic box. How did you intend to make a robot drone out of it?
    2. Barberry25
      Barberry25 24 October 2022 17: 45
      0
      I don’t know about the robot, but it would be optimal to modernize its turret to accommodate the Bakhcha combat module — place a triad, install the SAO and optics from it + ejection of shells and the rest, if it’s difficult, then make new combat modules with anti-fragmentation armor, but such a machine will be able to in one "face" to stop the offensive of the motorcycle groups of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which are now in fact 2-3 armored personnel carriers + several pickups.
      1. alexmach
        alexmach 25 October 2022 14: 42
        0
        upgrade its turret to accommodate the Bakhcha combat module

        In my opinion, this is rather pessimistic. What advantages do you see in the Bakhcha module over its regular tower?
        1. Barberry25
          Barberry25 25 October 2022 14: 50
          0
          a modern fire control system, a twin 30 mm cannon, an automatic loader - for current realities, this is more preferable than an old gun with a loader.
  19. Dmitry Karabanov
    Dmitry Karabanov 23 October 2022 14: 55
    +1
    Still, it’s better, even with an old tank on the front line, than without it at all!
    1. AdAstra
      AdAstra 23 October 2022 16: 23
      -2
      Better new than old without it hi "" "
  20. BlackTiger74
    BlackTiger74 23 October 2022 15: 00
    -2
    How zadolbali already these all sorts of non-bloggers !!!
  21. Adagka
    Adagka 23 October 2022 16: 06
    +2
    Another attempt by the Kremlinbots to wishful thinking. If, as the Kremlinbots assure, there are enough T72 and T80 in storage, then the modernization of the initially much more outdated and, accordingly, less combat-ready T62 is quite drawn to the misuse of funds, and in war conditions, to treason. And it doesn’t matter what the actual number is 100 or 800. According to the logic of the Kremlinbots, the T34 can be modernized and used as something. . And what? Also a tank.
    1. AdAstra
      AdAstra 23 October 2022 16: 24
      -2
      Not an eyebrow, but in the eye good "" "
    2. Sergei Kazarin
      Sergei Kazarin 23 October 2022 18: 31
      0
      There is nothing sufficient there. Assad's losses in Syria of armored vehicles are more than 2000 units, and these are mainly Russian deliveries.
      In addition, new equipment was not purchased under Shoigu, but only trash was modernized, stocks were quickly melting away
    3. Barberry25
      Barberry25 24 October 2022 17: 53
      0
      logically, you must first understand the issue, and then write a comment, then you would know that this BTRZ has long been specializing in the capital and modernization of the T-62, has well-functioning logistics, and they also knew that the T-62 is a reserve tank, which even oh horror participates in the exercises, therefore, having the ability to return up to 260 tanks a year, some of which will be t-62m, is better than spending up to a year on building new logistics in order to then receive fewer tanks. By the way, there were standing at the plant right when the deputy visited on the T-80 capital and they were also tested there ..... and this is without any attempts)
  22. acetophenone
    acetophenone 23 October 2022 20: 32
    0
    Quote: Negro
    Where are the rest of the MBTs?

    Perhaps, in the same place where many other Soviet military property is - broken or about ... in general, lost by naval means.
  23. TatarinSSSR
    TatarinSSSR 23 October 2022 21: 56
    -2
    And yet ... If there hadn't been very serious losses in tanks in the NWO, then the old T-62s would probably not have had to be reactivated.
  24. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 23 October 2022 23: 08
    0
    A stone in the garden Helfeir555 .... he had such a video
  25. Sergey39
    Sergey39 24 October 2022 11: 21
    0
    And how many copies were broken that T72 and T80 ran out of storage and only 62 remained! (((
  26. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 24 October 2022 14: 22
    +2
    It is necessary not to write evil articles, but to discuss how the T-62 is being modernized ..... he has a gun that is quite powerful and needs modern ammunition and sights for it. In the West, they appreciate their L7 and they have the whole line of modern ammunition.
    At 115mm, modern "crowbars", ATGMs are also needed ....
  27. the most important
    the most important 25 October 2022 00: 29
    0
    Gurulev himself named the figure of 800 tanks in Solovyov's program. Therefore, all the reasoning in the article is simply about nothing.