Military Review

Warlike sons of Gnaeus Pompey Magna

161
Warlike sons of Gnaeus Pompey Magna

Gnaeus Pompey the Elder (Great) was married five times and had three children - two sons and a daughter. All of them were born in a third marriage - from Muzia Tertia, with whom Pompey divorced due to suspicions of adultery. His only daughter in his first marriage was married to the son of the dictator Sulla. She enjoyed great respect in society, maintaining her position under Caesar, and under Octavian, and under Tiberius.

The eldest son of Pompey and his full namesake, Gnaeus Pompey the Younger, was married to the eldest daughter of Appius Claudius Pulchra and was the brother-in-law of Mark Junius Brutus.

Gnaeus Pompey the Younger



Gnaeus Pompey the Younger in a portrait by an unknown author

В historical sources of information about the eldest son of Pompey Magna appear only in 49 BC. e. (at this time he must have been about 30 years old). That year, Caesar crossed the Rubicon and occupied Italy, and Pompey the Great moved to Macedonia, where he began to prepare for war with his former father-in-law (his fourth marriage was to Caesar's daughter, but she had died by that time). Pompey sent his eldest son to Alexandria, where the young king Ptolemy XIII ruled, whose wife was his older sister, the famous Cleopatra. Such was the will of their father, and he appointed Rome, in the person of Pompey the Great, as the guarantor of its execution. According to Plutarch, Gnaeus Pompey the Younger made a great impression on Cleopatra with his courageous beauty, they even talked about their love affair. It is difficult to say how much this affair helped the son of Pompey then, but he received ships from the Egyptians - according to various sources, from 50 to 60 "quadriremes and quinqueres, perfectly equipped and ready to sail." Pompey the Younger and led this squadron, which became part of fleet Mark Calpurnius Bibulus, who covered the coasts of Illyria and Epirus. Pompey's squadron burned the Caesarian warships at Orik and 30 cargo ships at Lissa.

But Caesar, who returned from Spain as a winner, nevertheless managed in early January 48 BC. e. send part of his army to Epirus, and in April the remaining troops landed here, commanded by Mark Antony.

After the defeat of Pompey the Elder at the Battle of Pharsalus (August 9, 48 BC), the Egyptian ships left for Alexandria, where Gnaeus Pompey the Elder, who arrived there, was soon killed. And Pompey the Younger moved to the island of Kerkyra. Many prominent opponents of Caesar gathered here, including Quintus Caecilius Metellus Scipio, Marcus Porcius Cato, Titus Labienus, Lucius Aphranius, Marcus Terentius Varro and Marcus Tullius Cicero. They did not yet know about the murder of Pompey the Elder. They had at their disposal a large fleet (about 300 ships) and the province of Africa, which, in alliance with the Numidian king Yuba, defended from the legates of Caesar, Publius Attius Var. It was decided to transfer the command to Cicero, but he refused and even said that he was ready to obey Caesar. Gnaeus Pompey the Younger almost killed him, but was stopped by Cato.

After that, he went to Africa where he met his stepmother and younger brother, from whom he learned about the death of his father. On the advice of Cato, who soon arrived, Gnaeus at the beginning of 47 BC. e. went to Spain. He then had at his disposal 30 ships and a detachment of two thousand, which consisted mainly of freedmen. However, Appian claims that Gnaeus the Younger went to Spain already from Kerkyra and with him already then there was an experienced military leader and Caesar's closest collaborator during the Gallic wars, Titus Labienus (who, according to other authors, arrived in Spain after the defeat of the Republicans at Taps - April 6, 46 BC).

One way or another, Pompey occupied the Balearic Islands, but then fell ill and was inactive until the summer of 46 BC. e. Finally, his troops landed at Baetica. By that time, Caesar had already conquered Africa, and thus Pompey the Younger found himself alone against the full power of the Roman Republic. But in Spain he was doing well. His army included former soldiers of the legates of Pompey the Elder, Roman colonists, men of local tribes, and even slaves. Korduba, Munda, Gispalis and some other cities of Further Spain surrendered without a fight. New Carthage, the provincial capital, was occupied. Two legions of Gaius Trebonius, the governor of Caesar, went over to the side of the son of Pompey. Finally, allies who had been defeated in Africa arrived to him, including his younger brother Sextus. Gnaeus Pompey the Younger declared himself emperor and minted his own coin.


Denarius of Gnaeus Pompey the Younger, Spain, 46-45 BC.

According to some reports, he managed to raise an army of 13 legions and 6 lightly armed soldiers. The Roman legates Quintus Fabius Maximus and Quintus Pedias suffered defeat, and in November 46 BC. e. Caesar himself came to Spain. He had only 8 legions, but he had an advantage in the number of horsemen and lightly armed warriors. February 45 B.C. e. Caesar, after a month-long siege, took the important fortress of Ateguia. And on March 17 of the same year, the opponents entered into a decisive battle near the city of Munda. Data on the forces of the parties are contradictory. Some say that the numerical superiority was on the side of the Pompeians, while others, on the contrary, argue that the advantage was to Caesar. The bitterness on both sides was very great, and, according to Dio Cassius, the soldiers of Pompey's army "did not count on mercy and were not going to give it themselves."

Pompey's army, which occupied an advantageous position on a hill, repelled the enemy onslaught for a long time, sometimes dangerously counterattacking, so that Caesar himself even had to fight in the forefront. He later said that it was only at the Battle of Munda that he fought for his life and not for victory.


Giuseppe Rava. Caesar dragging his soldiers forward at the Battle of Munda

The decisive role was played by the Moorish cavalry of Caesar, who broke through one of the flanks of the Pompeians. Titus Labien was forced to withdraw 5 cohorts to defend the camp. This maneuver was perceived by everyone as a retreat, and Pompey's army faltered. The battle was lost, following this defeat, Korduba, Munda and Hispalis surrendered to Caesar.

Gnaeus Pompey the Younger fled the battlefield with only 50 horsemen and reached Cartea, where his fleet was located. When landing on the ship, he caught his foot on the rope and someone wounded him, in a hurry to free his leg. This, of course, is evidence of the terrible haste in which the boarding of the ship was then carried out.

The misadventures of Gnaeus Pompey the Younger did not end there. After 4 days, his squadron was forced to land on the shore to replenish fresh water, and was discovered by the fleet of Aulus Didius. Gnaeus the Younger tried to escape by land, was overtaken and killed. Appian claims that, despite the wound, the eldest son of Pompey the Great "given his life dearly."

The head of Gnaeus Pompey was brought to Rome, shown to the people and soldiers, and then buried.

Sextus Pompey


Now it was the turn of the younger son of Pompey the Great, who had previously been in the shadow of his older brother.


Possible portrait of Sextus Pompey, bust, bronze, third quarter of the XNUMXst c. BC e.

During the war between his father and Caesar, Sextus is with his stepmother in Mytilene on the island of Lesbos. After the defeat at Pharsalus, Pompey, taking his family, went to Egypt, where he was killed - allegedly in front of his wife and son.


The murder of Pompey illustrated by G. Leutemann

Sextus went to Tyre, and from there to Africa. After the defeat of the Republicans at the Battle of Tapsa, he moved to his brother in Spain, where he became the head of the garrison of Corduba. Upon learning of his brother's defeat at the battle of Munda, he distributed all the money he had to the Roman horsemen who had fled to Corduba, and he himself went to the Lacetan tribe, friendly to his family. After Caesar left for Rome, he began his war and achieved great success, subjugating all of Baetica and part of Near Spain. Soon in his army there were already, according to various sources, from 6 to 7 legions. The soldiers proclaimed him emperor.

After the assassination of Caesar, Sextus Pompey was amnestied, received an offer to return to Rome to receive his father's inheritance, and even, at the suggestion of Mark Antony, who was then seeking an alliance with the Pompeians of the Senate, was appointed commander of the fleet of the Roman Republic. Having moved to Massalia, Sextus took command of the fleet, but he was prudently in no hurry to return to Rome, since the Mutinskaya war had already begun, which the Senate waged against both Mark Antony and Octavian, who, in turn, could not stand each other. Sextus Pompey was right in assessing the situation, because already in 43 BC. e. Octavian, Mark Antony and Lepidus agreed on an alliance for 5 years, forming the Second Triumvirate. All participants in the conspiracy, during which Caesar was killed, were outlawed. The younger son of Pompey was also included in the proscription lists, although he had not even the slightest relation to the murder of Caesar. Sextus Pompey led the fleet to the western coast of Sicily and began to intercept grain transport ships, as well as attack coastal Italian cities. In addition, he announced that for the salvation of persons included in the proscription lists, he would pay twice as much as the triumvirs for their heads, and this earned him the respect and sympathy of very many people.

In December 43 BC. Sextus Pompey landed in Sicily. At first, he agreed with the Roman governor on the division of the island, but soon executed him. Everyone who was oppressed by the triumvirs immediately fled to Sicily, including the aristocrats included in the proscription lists. But especially many of these fugitives were slaves, whom Pompey willingly accepted. He appointed people to high positions solely on business qualities, and the freedman Menodorus commanded his fleet. The commanders of individual squadrons were also freedmen - Menekrates, Democharus and Apollofan. Pompey's detractors claimed that in the past they were pirates who were once defeated by the father of Sextus.

In the next article, we will continue the story of Sextus Pompey, the challenge that he threw to the triumvirs, his victories, missed opportunities and inglorious death.
Author:
161 comment
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 19 October 2022 05: 04
    +4
    Thank you Valery for the cycle. I noticed that a small series is being formed in the format of "the lives of remarkable people", more precisely, contemporaries of Gaius Julius Caesar!
    Although, there is a request to the Author, "to dig deeper." however, popular journalism does not imply this, but for a number of points I wanted to hear Valery's personal attitude to the events.
    Sincerely, good day to all!
    1. Fat
      Fat 19 October 2022 11: 20
      +4
      hi Greetings Vladislav, hello colleagues. The cycle is really amazing. However, I did not like the splash screen illustration. Namely, the image of the Roman via strata. The artist was extremely careless. First, the Romans built roads as straight as possible. The hills were cut off and the lowlands were filled. When a turn was made if necessary, the road was made twice as wide as the main highway so that two wagons could pass.
      The road must have a noticeable bulge along the axis of the track, and the curb (curb) is higher ...
      Roads were paved only on the territory of cities or on the outskirts of them (with the exception of the fully paved Via Appia) fellow , but were mostly covered with sand, rubble and gravel from open pits nearby.
      In the picture, the paved military road sways like a country road - This is wrong. smile
    2. bk0010
      bk0010 19 October 2022 14: 11
      +2
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      I noticed that a small series is being formed in the format of "the lives of remarkable people", more precisely, contemporaries of Gaius Julius Caesar!
      Yes, very remarkable ... I want to remind you that these staged a whole many years of civil war just because of personal power.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 19 October 2022 18: 53
        +2
        Yes, very remarkable ... I want to remind you that these staged a whole many years of civil war just because of personal power.

        Good evening!
        Name at least one Civil War started for other reasons?
        1. bk0010
          bk0010 19 October 2022 19: 47
          +3
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          Name at least one Civil War started for other reasons?
          The American Civil War is about money.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 19 October 2022 20: 29
            0
            Quote: bk0010
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            Name at least one Civil War started for other reasons?
            The American Civil War is about money.

            And personal power. Let not the first persons, but the "heroes of the second plan" have reached the first and second!
  2. Korsar4
    Korsar4 19 October 2022 05: 27
    +6
    Thank you, Valery!

    It seems that all patricians are relatives. And taking into account divorces - not according to one option.

    And the legionnaires have forelocks crackling.
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 19 October 2022 05: 48
      +5
      It seems that all patricians are relatives.
      Not a feeling, realities. Kum, matchmaker, brother, stepson, etc.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 19 October 2022 05: 59
        +5
        A feeling that turns into reality.
        Our nobility also had a lot to do with it. Especially those from the Velvet Book.
        1. parusnik
          parusnik 19 October 2022 06: 07
          +3
          Our nobility also had a lot to do with it. Especially those from the Velvet Book.
          And the legionnaires have forelocks crackling.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 19 October 2022 05: 57
      +5
      It seems that all patricians are relatives.


      Yeah, and they live in a communal apartment with a shared kitchen. laughing

      Good morning, then! drinks
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 19 October 2022 06: 02
        +4
        Good morning, Constantine!

        “Would you believe, all of Troy is from this courtyard,
        All Troy - from this playground ... "(c).
    3. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 19 October 2022 07: 03
      +4
      It seems that all the patricians are relatives
      A little wrong. There were many plebeian families, eponymous with the old patrician, which became equites at the beginning of the republicanism. From Anthony to Juniev.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 19 October 2022 07: 47
        +3
        Any living structure is capable of renewal.

        If you understand - already for specific genera.
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 19 October 2022 05: 57
    +7
    Well, something like this about the events described in the article:


  4. depressant
    depressant 19 October 2022 07: 13
    +7
    Gnaeus Pompey the Younger almost killed Cicero, but Cato stopped him from understanding the value of walking reference material for subsequent generations of talkers.

    Good day to all, while this is possible!
    I haven't slept since half past five.
    Went all over the place, huh...
    Nikolai (or Vlad?) will come and give me a blow in the head for this meaningful "m-yes." You should have heard the intonation with which I thought "m-yes"!
    Oh no, she was lethargic, that's intonation. But I have no doubt that Nikolai (or Vlad?), the guardian of the integrity of the historical section, who has already bludgeoned ArchiPhil today, will vigilantly not pass by my sedition ... Ha-ha ...
    wassat )))
    A joke, sort of.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 19 October 2022 07: 21
      +6
      But I have no doubt that the guardian of the integrity of the historical division, Nikolai (or Vlad?),
      My name is Anton. Consider that it has already arrived! Mikhail will appear, he will add.
      Good morning!
      1. depressant
        depressant 19 October 2022 08: 33
        +3
        My name is Anton.

        Hee hee s! Nice to meet you (follows an awkward curtsy - such as Liz Truss squatting in front of Charles II when she almost fell) - Depressant himself wassat )))
        How many and often were women beaten? Got a skill?
        I wonder if women were beaten in ancient Rome? What does history say about this?
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 19 October 2022 08: 43
          +4


          One evening the patricians
          Gathered at the Capitol
          Share news and
          Drink a little alcohol -

          Do not have hard conversations:
          Mark the Patrician didn't fumble -
          Drank nectar in large doses
          And terribly nectared.

          And under the ancient under the column
          He wrested from the mouth of the curse:
          "Oh, guys, with a venerable mother
          I will leave soon, brethren!

          She got mixed up with the poets
          Obsessed with theaters -
          So he roams with tickets
          On visiting gladiators!

          "I, - shouts, - from lack of culture
          I'll be hysterical soon!"
          In general, he rages like a fury,
          Encouragement sister!
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 19 October 2022 08: 44
          +7
          How many and often were women beaten?
          Never. But sometimes you really want to. And sometimes it would be worth it.
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 19 October 2022 13: 52
        +5
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Mikhail will appear, he will add.

        To be honest, I'm not sure I can add anything. request
        Lyudmila Yakovlevna, it seems to me, is now in some kind of severe depressive state, which, to my great regret, has not been going away for quite a long time. I am sincerely sorry that the former lightness, light irony and subtle harmless humor of an intelligent person have disappeared from her comments, leaving us only bitterness, disappointment and carefully concealed irritation and hatred for something that is not entirely clear to me, but clearly visible to Lyudmila Yakovlevna herself. Moreover, as far as I understand, apparently in a specific historical character, whose last name is "too famous for me to call it." smile
        I do not know what to say.
        There are two options for dealing with this situation. First: do not know what to say - be silent. Second: do not know what to say - say what you think. I prefer the second one.
        I would like the former Lyudmila Yakovlevna to return to us. But it is unlikely that I can do something specifically to speed up this process. Any criticism of her is more likely to lead to the opposite effect. So I try to keep quiet.
        Forgive me, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, and please do not consider what I just said to Anton as whispering behind your back, a discussion, as they say, "behind your eyes." These words are addressed to you too, although, I'm afraid, they are of little interest to you. Your presence today on the branch gives me reason to believe that you are lamenting my comment. hi
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 19 October 2022 07: 55
      +5
      Went all over the place, huh...


      It is necessary to wash the galoshes, and at the same time disinfect them.

      Good morning, Luda (if not for the tedious rain). smile
      1. depressant
        depressant 19 October 2022 08: 36
        +3
        Good morning, Kostya!)))
        As for the galoshes, you are right. Especially after my walk through the expanses of the Internet, and yesterday's evening too. Next time I'll put on a spacesuit made from improvised materials.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 19 October 2022 08: 50
          +4
          Next time I'll put on a spacesuit


          It won't save. Especially at gatherings of "pique vests". laughing

          1. depressant
            depressant 19 October 2022 10: 13
            +1
            It won't save. Especially at gatherings of "pique vests".

            Kostya, you are careless! Nikolai (or Vlad?) will come and clean you up as you need. No more pique vests! Some are silent, others are far away. And I'm not a visitor to all sorts of gatherings due to inappropriate and wildly tactless irony regarding any issue.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 19 October 2022 17: 13
              +3
              Nikolai (or Vlad?) will come and clean you up as you need.


              So what? And no one will "clean" anything for me, we can do without it. Everyone is already tired of everything, at least for me, for a long time. Panopticon, damn it.
              1. depressant
                depressant 19 October 2022 18: 41
                +2
                Panopticon, damn it.

                No, not a freak show. A community of proud independent opinions. Often contradicting one another. That's why they are strong....
                What about scared?
                Kostya, where is your humor? crying
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 19 October 2022 18: 57
                  +2
                  What about scared?


                  Who or what? But actually, I already wrote that "maybe Chamberlain was frightened," and nothing more. request
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 19 October 2022 20: 42
                    +1
                    Chamberlain got frightened", and nothing more.

                    "To get the truth is much easier,
                    when you speak from a tank. "(c)
                    drinks wassat )))
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 19 October 2022 21: 29
                      +3
                      Here you involuntarily remember about "a kind word and a revolver", and at the same time about the fact that "we have Maxim, but you don't have him." laughing

                      "The armor is strong and our tanks are fast,
                      Although drunken tankers are sitting in them" soldier

        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 19 October 2022 09: 03
          +5
          Next time I'll put on a spacesuit made from improvised materials.
          "I'll hand over a bag of empty bottles to the Peace Foundation,
          And I'll hide a parachute from the mattress "(C)
          1. depressant
            depressant 19 October 2022 10: 15
            +2
            I'll donate a bag of empty bottles to the Peace Foundation...
            Tried method? wassat )))
            1. dzvero
              dzvero 19 October 2022 14: 14
              +4
              Tried method?

              Why not?
              ***
              Meeting classmates in ten years. Someone boasts of education, someone of career, someone of business...
              - How are you, Nick?
              - And I'm drinking!
              ---
              XNUMX years later, same story...
              ---
              another ten years - still the same ...
              ---
              another ten years passed. Nick comes to the meeting in a new car, smartly dressed, with a young woman, etc. Mass template break - how so? what's happened?
              - Bottles handed over!
              ***
              smile
    3. Korsar4
      Korsar4 19 October 2022 08: 41
      +4
      Good afternoon, Lyudmila Yakovlevna!

      I hope that when you "walked everywhere", you managed to go to the spring and admire the October autumn.
      1. depressant
        depressant 19 October 2022 08: 54
        +3
        Sergey, good morning!
        By the October autumn - is this your good wish? Sends kicks on the Internet are regular. I rub my bruises...
        I’m interested in something else.
        Feeding by a she-wolf is, of course, a rather clumsy PR, but it was then accepted and found tenderness in descendants.
        And what types of PR were adopted in ancient Rome? After all, there was something besides self-promotion through Ciceron's eloquence and passage through the triumphal arch.
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 19 October 2022 12: 34
          +8
          types of PR were adopted in ancient Rome?

          They handed out plates of food, on the bottom of which it was written who to vote for (who paid for all this) On the photo plates of the election campaign of Catiline and Cato Jr.
          1. Liam
            Liam 19 October 2022 14: 02
            -2
            Quote: Bolt Cutter
            They handed out plates of food, on the bottom of which it was written who to vote for (who paid for all this) On the photo plates of the election campaign of Catiline and Cato Jr.

            Do you roughly imagine the percentage of those who could read at that time?
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 19 October 2022 16: 45
              +2
              percentage of those who could read at that time
              As in our time in the Moldovan village yes and nothing less, otherwise no one (even Catiline) would be engaged in the manufacture and distribution of such an original freebie.
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 19 October 2022 17: 45
              +3
              Perhaps a set of alphabetic characters was perceived by the illiterate people of Rome as a pictogram denoting a certain person. Such a kind of mnemonic.
              Hello Victor!
              1. Liam
                Liam 19 October 2022 18: 00
                0
                Hi!

                This kind of pseudo-historical fakes have already been sorted out here too ... something similar supposedly happened in Ancient Greece with some kind of ballot boxes.
                These historical anecdotes make an indelible impression on unencumbered knowledge of illiterate ignoramuses and rush with their discoveries around the sites like with a written sack.

                In reality, this kind of electoral dinners were natural for the poorest segments of the population, among whom illiteracy was total. Therefore, it never occurred to anyone to spoil the utensils in this way). scientific
                1. Fat
                  Fat 19 October 2022 18: 19
                  +3
                  Victor, greetings! The fact that you are a skeptic and a pessimist, Thomas who does not believe is already familiar. Let those who know have their say first. In Alexandria, more than 90% read and even went to the theater ... The same in Apollonia ... well, there the theater was closer to the port ... and Cyrene herself ... The native Egyptians lived in the criminal center, closer to the coast .. Well, about southeast of the arena... laughing
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 19 October 2022 18: 50
                    +2
                    The fact that you are a skeptic and a pessimist, Thomas does not believe
                    Me too, by the way. Since I started reading primary sources and normal research on them.
                  2. Liam
                    Liam 19 October 2022 19: 29
                    +2
                    Quote: Thick
                    welcome

                    hi
                    Quote: Thick
                    Let those who know speak first

                    And who exactly is this .. announce the entire list of nicknames ... it’s very curious to check with your own)
                    1. Fat
                      Fat 19 October 2022 20: 08
                      +1
                      Victor. I'm not the most-most .... There is no doubt more intelligent. Well, for example, "the owner of a trilobite" ...
                      I'm sure you have something to say - lay out an argument!, And you are "dark" all the time and this does not "please" me ... With what fright? Have you made your list? I have not seen your "my" list and I doubt that it is. smile
                      Wonderful! Nobody trusts anyone! what are you talking about? wassat
                      1. Liam
                        Liam 19 October 2022 20: 19
                        0
                        I don’t seem to be dark. I call (and call laughing recourse ) everything is always in its own name. You threw in the topic about those who know / those who do not know, you are the first to announce the list.

                        There are two people who know on the branch. Undechim and Denis. Anton and Trilobite are knowledgeable in certain topics. The rest are more or less extras and decorations.
                      2. Fat
                        Fat 19 October 2022 20: 45
                        +3
                        Victor, you (sorry) are not alone. No need to get angry. We're all a little bit smart, partly frostbitten
                        Do not believe me.
                        Trust yourself. Sylph grows from the tares smile
                        Not all people are rivals
                        Sincerely
                2. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 19 October 2022 18: 28
                  +2
                  something similar allegedly happened in ancient Greece with some kind of ballot boxes.
                  Hmmm ...
                  Do you think that the potsherds for ostracism, with a preliminary inscribed name, were deliberately handed out to the Athenian rabble before the procedure began?
                  1. Fat
                    Fat 19 October 2022 18: 42
                    +1
                    Anton! Greetings. Indeed, shards for ostracism were prepared in advance, and the hiring of "mob" was bought ... laughing
                    What, nafik, deliberately ... Definitely - an order.
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 19 October 2022 18: 53
                      0
                      Well, what then is the "kueschin" with which you turned to Victor?
                      Hello Borisych!
                      1. Fat
                        Fat 19 October 2022 19: 23
                        +1
                        It seemed to me that in antiquity the motivation was simpler. I admit I was wrong... drinks smile
                        Everything is the same: deceit, crimes, sins, struggle for power, manipulation...
                        And yes, I don’t remember the essence of the issue of my appeal to Victor .... Enlighten recourse
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2022 19: 41
                        +1
                        The truth of democracy was discussed in Rome and Athens.
                  2. Liam
                    Liam 19 October 2022 19: 23
                    +1
                    There, as far as I remember, the fact was that on many of these shards the names were written by the same hand, although in theory different people should have voted. the total illiteracy of the voters was special scripts that wrote for them. Filled out the questionnaires like this)
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 19 October 2022 19: 34
                      +1
                      Banal stuffing, "146 percent"?
                      By the way, did you vote in the last election?
                      1. Liam
                        Liam 19 October 2022 19: 35
                        -1
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        voted

                        Naturally
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2022 19: 45
                        +2
                        Yes. I will leave further questions, because they are considered indecent.
                      3. Liam
                        Liam 19 October 2022 19: 55
                        -1
                        I'm not as vulnerable as it were. In any case, I vote almost always in all elections
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2022 20: 03
                        +1
                        It's not a matter of "lightness". The fact is that today in Russia the question "for whom you voted" is regarded by the rating of obscenity as the question "how much you earn."
                      5. Liam
                        Liam 19 October 2022 20: 10
                        -1
                        In the Moldovan elections, for Sandu and PAS)
                      6. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2022 20: 17
                        +2
                        Honestly and frankly, thank you!
                        My comrade lives in Chisinau, he says that after Sandu came to power, everything became worse, at times.
                      7. Liam
                        Liam 19 October 2022 20: 34
                        -1
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        everything got worse

                        Who cares. I have a completely opposite opinion. A worthy person and president. And against the background of the corrupt pygmies who preceded her, she is just a titan.
                      8. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2022 20: 47
                        +2
                        Life will show, Victor. As you understand, I communicate with comrades on different sides of the barricades.
                      9. Liam
                        Liam 19 October 2022 20: 53
                        0
                        Of course. If he doesn’t cope and doesn’t justify his hopes, we’ll choose another. We don’t choose a king or a life-long pharaoh for ourselves, but just a high-ranking elected official. 4 years - and thanks to everybody, you're free)
                      10. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2022 21: 00
                        +1
                        It will not cope and will not justify hopes, we will choose another.
                        Sorry, buddy, but Moldova, not Israel. And now, not the second half of the last century.
                      11. Liam
                        Liam 19 October 2022 19: 37
                        +1
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        stuffing

                        Yes, no stuffing. The man called the name of the crib and he wrote for him. In public
                3. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 19 October 2022 18: 34
                  +3
                  ali ... clients were called scientifically
                  By the way, in St. Petersburg, in the environment of the restaurant and hotel business, there is such a saying: "Clients are with taxi drivers and prostitutok, and we have guests!"
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 19 October 2022 19: 33
                    +2
                    Well, in ancient Rome, each patrician had his own such cloaca of the poor and semi-poor whom he fed, they gave him applause at public events, beat rivals, agitated, etc. The clients were called
                4. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 19 October 2022 20: 49
                  +4
                  Who exactly was generous with grub they knew so well ... they were called clients according to scientific

                  Probably all the same - cartridges.
                  Regarding the plebs, as far as I understand, he did not have the right to vote during the Roman Republic. The citizens voted. The latter really knew who to vote for.
                  About Elada. The traditions of the latter not infrequently also involved voting, including on clay shards. Taking into account the qualifications for entering Athens or Corinth, people who had the opportunity to have writing skills were allowed to vote. So I don't think it was a real issue. There were not so many banal participants in election campaigns (citizens).
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 19 October 2022 20: 56
                    +1
                    In Greece, it was about ostracism. Everyone participated there
                    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 October 2022 04: 18
                      +3
                      Quote: Liam
                      In Greece, it was about ostracism. Everyone participated there

                      I specify - all who had the citizenship of the policy. If with regards to Athens, then these are 4 groups of citizens according to certain qualifications with specific responsibilities.
                      I don’t think that by “obliging to serve” as a trierarch, the policy could choose an illiterate citizen. For example, during the Marathon, 10 hoplites (citizens) took part, and the number of slaves began not to them. In other sources, the ratios are even more significantly different. Up to 000 to 1.
          2. Fat
            Fat 19 October 2022 14: 05
            +2
            hi Alex... How lovely! A method proven for thousands of years. It’s even interesting how many of the voters were literate to read this “flyer”. Obviously, the distributors of “buns” explained to the electorate who cares about them verbally: “Vote for Cato Jr., the fish sauce from his possessions is the best in Rome” laughing
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 19 October 2022 18: 19
              +2
              distributors of "buns" explained to the electorate
              According to historians of political technologies, this is how it was. To reinforce the effect yes .
          3. depressant
            depressant 19 October 2022 14: 21
            +3
            They handed out plates of food, on the bottom of which it was written who to vote for (who paid for all this) On the photo plates of the election campaign of Catiline and Cato Jr. .


            Voooot!
            See, all roads lead to Rome! In the story "The Way to Amalthea" by the Strugatskys, it was mentioned that in an institution such as a tavern near the Mirza-Charle cosmodrome, marvelous ice okroshka was served, after eating which, the visitor found the logo of the company that produced this dish on the bottom of the plate.
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 19 October 2022 22: 34
              +2
              eating which, the visitor found on the bottom of the plate the logo of the company that produced this dish.
              And on the rim of the plate is the inscription "eat me, there is a surprise at the bottom"
              1. depressant
                depressant 19 October 2022 22: 37
                +1
                And on the rim of the plate is the inscription "eat me, there is a surprise at the bottom"

                good drinks hi ))))
        2. Korsar4
          Korsar4 19 October 2022 13: 44
          +4
          When you listen to the verses of Cicero in Latin, with this repulsion of time, you become ready for any feats.
        3. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 19 October 2022 22: 31
          +2
          Now you can also apply poetic agitation. For example, this:
          For United Russia
          vote like a messiah
          There will be meat in your bowl -
          there ....... first on the list.
          Insert the current leader of the EP into the gap, good for all time.
    4. ArchiPhil
      ArchiPhil 19 October 2022 09: 30
      +4
      Quote: depressant
      that the guardian of the integrity of the historical division, Nikolai (or Vlad?), who has already bludgeoned ArchiPhil today, will not vigilantly pass by my sedition ... Ha-ha ...

      Where? When? For what reason?
      Quote: depressant
      A joke, sort of.

      Like, joke. bully
      "I don't understand anything!" (c) recourse
      1. depressant
        depressant 19 October 2022 10: 18
        +2
        Kindly my friend, and you go through past topics, I went everywhere, and with a keen eagle eye I saw a slap in the face)))
        1. depressant
          depressant 19 October 2022 10: 32
          +2
          I'm sorry for the typo! Kind, kind, kind!)))
          1. ArchiPhil
            ArchiPhil 19 October 2022 11: 10
            +3
            Quote: depressant
            Kind, kind, kind!)))

            Yes, I'm kind. But inquisitive. Does this * slap in the face * have coordinates? angry laughing
            1. depressant
              depressant 19 October 2022 13: 59
              +1
              Answered privately...
              And so, in rags, with a head sprinkled with flour (ash from a cigarette was not enough), I publicly repent and brazenly demand mercy wassat )))
              It was not Nikolay (or Vlad?), it was Borisych!!!

              Greetings, Sergey. As for Valery's article, he simply made a mistake on the number. And let's just not discuss the rally with a concert - perhaps for the inhabitants of the new regions of Russia it was very important, although IMHO it is premature.


              The tone seemed so strict and cold that for some reason later strict Nikolai (or a robber-like Vlad?) appeared in my memory, and I fell into the net of insidious cells - brain neurons. This is how injustice is born!
              Mercy - I demand!
              1. Fat
                Fat 19 October 2022 14: 58
                +3
                hi Greetings Lyudmila! Who am I? Is restraint perceived as indifferent rudeness?
                Sergey understood me absolutely correctly. What did you see there so strict?
                In any case, I apologize for setting an "unacceptable" emotional (not emotional) tone. love
                - How do you feel about the policy of the leadership of the state?
                - I fully approve!
                - Don't you have your own opinion?
                - Of course have! But I don't approve...
                1. ArchiPhil
                  ArchiPhil 19 October 2022 15: 05
                  +2
                  Quote: Thick
                  How do you feel about the policy of the state's leadership?
                  - I fully approve!
                  - Don't you have your own opinion?
                  - Of course have! But I don't approve...

                  Ha, ha, ha, ha! / Rolling cheerful laughter, turning into a neigh! /
                  Lyudmila Yakovlevna became very, very suspicious. belay
                  Greetings Borisych! hi
                  1. Fat
                    Fat 19 October 2022 15: 19
                    +3
                    hi Greetings, Sergey. Rational-emotional dualism, as a property of the species ... It’s a pity for mammoths, but there’s nothing to eat, and vegetables didn’t grow in the season wassat
                    I do not know where Lyudmila Yakovlevna wandered in the vastness of the network, but wanderings in search of information shook all the cheerfulness of our dear colleague significantly.
                    This must be fought! fellow yes
                    1. ArchiPhil
                      ArchiPhil 19 October 2022 16: 11
                      +3
                      Quote: Thick
                      I do not know where Lyudmila Yakovlevna wandered in the vastness of the network, but wanderings in search of information shook all the cheerfulness of our dear colleague significantly.

                      Lyudmila Yakovlevna will cope with this, I believe. You just need to * sift * the flow of information. The main thing is less * politics *. I don’t get tired of writing to her about this, but? recourse Yes, and this autumn ... the annual effect. laughing
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2022 16: 22
                        +4
                        Yes, and this autumn ... the annual effect.
                        "What is autumn? These are branches,
                        Sawn branches underfoot.
                        I started the chainsaw and walked through the yards
                        Autumn, I forgot to take my pills ... "
                      2. Fat
                        Fat 19 October 2022 17: 38
                        +3
                        Quote: ArchiPhil
                        Doesn't listen.

                        Did you figure out what you took out? Lyudmila is a very independent commentator. Many will envy her notes. Accurately, intelligently, figuratively and emotionally - a condensed meaning ...
                        Very difficult .... Autumn-autumn. Good autumn.
                        ...
                        Doesn't listen! Ha ha three times. Lyudmila is smarter than you and me at times. Woman - associations and iron logic.
                        Do not dig laughing
                      3. ArchiPhil
                        ArchiPhil 19 October 2022 18: 13
                        +3
                        Quote: Thick
                        Did you figure out what you took out? Lyudmila is a very independent commentator.

                        I know. How do I know that the passion for politics of an ordinary inhabitant of "average conditional age" cannot lead to good. So what?
                      4. depressant
                        depressant 19 October 2022 19: 05
                        +1
                        Yes, and this autumn ... the annual effect.


                        Well, they rewarded. Both.
                        When despair reaches the top of its capabilities, it turns into cheerful laughter with a slight movement of the cognitive system, which characterizes it, the system, stability. Only terrible images in the subcortex.
                      5. Fat
                        Fat 19 October 2022 20: 56
                        +2
                        Wonderful! But I'll never drink that much sad
                      6. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 19 October 2022 22: 38
                        +1
                        When despair reaches the top of its capabilities, it turns into cheerful laughter with a slight movement of the cognitive system, which characterizes it, the system, stability. Only terrible images in the subcortex.
                        That is why the synecdoche of the answer arises. Also the Strugatskys.
                2. depressant
                  depressant 19 October 2022 18: 46
                  +1
                  - Don't you have your own opinion?
                  - Of course have! But I don't approve...

                  Andrei Borisovich! Amazing! )))))))))
                  I wanted to advise you on which telegram you don’t need to go to, where is this - what is above. And then I realized, not everyone is as disgustingly curious as I am. wassat )))
                  1. Fat
                    Fat 19 October 2022 19: 12
                    +2
                    You need to keep your distance. You can’t measure everything on yourself ... Hmm ...
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 19 October 2022 20: 37
                      +1
                      You can’t measure everything on yourself ... Hmm ...


                      "Please do not believe the whole truth,
                      what will they tell you about me!" (c)
                      wassat )))
              2. ArchiPhil
                ArchiPhil 19 October 2022 15: 09
                +3
                Quote: depressant
                The tone seemed to be strict and cold,

                Error!
                Quote: depressant
                strict Nikolai introduced himself

                It’s good that it’s not Nikolai the Wonderworker. With our Nikolai / oh how rarely he began to appear in * History * / we will always agree.
                Quote: depressant
                Mercy - I demand!

                For what? Absolutely nothing happened. bully
                1. depressant
                  depressant 19 October 2022 19: 11
                  +1
                  For what? Absolutely nothing happened.


                  That's why I demand it. I screamed, but nothing happened! This is how you shake the Universe with a strict thought, but the stars do not light up.
                  There is noise, there is no action. Bad price for a good mistake.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 19 October 2022 19: 26
                    +1
                    The Schwarzschild sphere absorbs energy.
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 19 October 2022 20: 29
                      +1
                      Closer to the event horizon
                      But you can't see what's behind him...

                      "We saved up for a rainy day -
                      and look forward to it." (c)
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2022 20: 35
                        +2
                        Closer to the event horizon
                        But you can't see what's behind him...

                        You, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, don't read Kurzweil. Although I recommended...
                      2. depressant
                        depressant 19 October 2022 22: 30
                        +1
                        Although I recommended...

                        Evil, you, Anton crying
                        I almost can't see with my right eye. And, probably, I will go to the forums less and less.
                        And you told me - about Kutzweil.
                        And do not talk about doctors. Retinal detachment.
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2022 22: 56
                        0
                        Evil, you, Anton
                        Fool, you, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, moreover, a very self-sufficient fool.
                        I offered you to put a normal door, at my expense, two years ago. A year ago, I suggested that you go to an ophthalmologist ...
                        And suddenly today - retinal detachment ....
                      4. depressant
                        depressant 20 October 2022 07: 21
                        +2
                        So was at the ophthalmologist is two. Nikolai (or Vlad?) proposed to install the door - that's one thing.
                        Stop calling names - it's three!
                        I'm so unhappy.
                    2. Fat
                      Fat 19 October 2022 21: 09
                      +1
                      Above the surface of the "black hole" there is much more information than in i-no smile Past present Future...
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2022 21: 17
                        0
                        Borisych, are you sure that the "black hole" is just not a collection point for analysis about our universe.?
                      2. Fat
                        Fat 19 October 2022 21: 31
                        +1
                        I can guess a lot. But somehow I stand on a position on the line of knowledge and assumption. That's a lot, yeah...
                        Step right, step left...
                        In the end, I mastered the mathematical school. And yes, if there is a formula, then in real life it has a physical correspondence.
                        Therefore, it was easy for me to work at a design institute drawing interface nodes, after 5 years on the "line" ... Our girls could not imagine this ...
                        You look - and ... it’s not good, of course, but not a single superman piles such a thing at 20-150 m above the ground in the mounting belt.
                        I'm not sure of anything until I've done something myself. feel
                        Occam's razor! The door must first be opened, then we'll figure it out, the queen is there, or the neighbor's salt has run out ... bully
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2022 21: 38
                        +1
                        The door must first be opened, then we'll figure it out, the queen is there, or the neighbor's salt has run out ...
                        These are the questions of Schrödinger's cat...
                      4. Fat
                        Fat 19 October 2022 21: 52
                        +2
                        He's still dead, even if he's alive wassat
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2022 22: 09
                        +1
                        "Doctor! We're losing him!!!"
                  2. Fat
                    Fat 19 October 2022 22: 22
                    0
                    Is it difficult to be patient and wait for a response? You make noise yesterday, And today, on the way home from the store... Do you often turn your eyes to the zenith? And there is a sign
                    And sometimes adepts need more time and signs... laughing
              3. ArchiPhil
                ArchiPhil 19 October 2022 15: 14
                +3
                Quote: depressant
                and I fell into the net of insidious cells - brain neurons. This is how injustice is born!


                This is probably how the insidious Moscow autumn works. laughing
                1. depressant
                  depressant 19 October 2022 19: 21
                  +1
                  This is what!
                  Have you seen how a few comments above the insidious St. Petersburg autumn affected Anton?!?
                  He became lyrical! He spoke in verse!
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 19 October 2022 19: 25
          +3
          I - went everywhere, and with a keen eagle eye saw
          "How beautiful our savannah is from a bird's eye view!!!" (FROM)
          1. depressant
            depressant 19 October 2022 20: 33
            +1
            "Only having lost the cheese, the crow
            I gained freedom of speech." (c)
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 19 October 2022 20: 39
              +2
              Conclusion: no need to talk again.
  5. Nephilim
    Nephilim 19 October 2022 09: 55
    +3
    During the period from the middle of the 140rd century BC to the end of the XNUMXth century AD, approximately XNUMX historical events that fall under the definition of "civil war" took place in Ancient Rome, moreover, in the XNUMXth century they go almost continuously. It seems that the author found a gold mine and provided himself with topics for articles for years.
    1. depressant
      depressant 19 October 2022 10: 29
      +2
      And then! )))
      I didn't mention the wolf for nothing. The one that raised Romulus and Remus. It was simply a relying legend like a halo around the heads of the founders of Rome, but simply a family organized crime group. Remember how these guys crushed the local king under them. Since then the custom has gone on. I read the article and saw an effective ancient find, put into the system of all further relations. Mafia, in a word, the struggle of clans.
      1. Nephilim
        Nephilim 19 October 2022 12: 52
        +1
        Remember how these guys crushed the local king under them.

        They did not crush the local king. They restored him to the throne and left him to rule, founding their own city.
        1. depressant
          depressant 19 October 2022 14: 10
          0
          How so? And I took a legend from somewhere that they brought him to a feast at their home, and at that time a detachment of Romulus and Rem came to the palace to the king and killed all his relatives, servants and half of the detachment that remained to guard the palace. And then the king, who came to visit with the second half of his soldiers, was easily overthrown by the brothers.
          I admit that I read the Apocrypha.
          1. Nephilim
            Nephilim 19 October 2022 14: 15
            0
            Apocrypha - a work on a biblical theme, recognized as unreliable and rejected by the church. It has nothing to do with the topic under discussion. Perhaps you meant some real sources, like the "History of Rome" by Dionysius?
            1. depressant
              depressant 19 October 2022 14: 34
              +1
              What is apocrypha, I know very well wassat )))
              I used it as a joke (how gloomy this world is! It is understandable).
              But no, it was not Dionysius. It was a dispute of some experts on the Internet, where Romulus and Remus were discussed. Before this discussion, I had a good idea about them, and after - the guys are still the same. )))
              1. Nephilim
                Nephilim 19 October 2022 14: 38
                -1
                It was a dispute of some connoisseurs on the Internet

                Yes, on the Internet in general, and in Runet in particular, "experts" are a dime a dozen. Even according to Shpakovsky, revered as a prophet on this site, at least 80 percent of Runet are idiots.
                1. Nephilim
                  Nephilim 19 October 2022 15: 34
                  -1
                  By the way, I think Shpakovsky's assessment is very optimistic. The figure is 99,9 percent more real.
                  1. Fat
                    Fat 19 October 2022 17: 01
                    +2
                    If you scroll through the "News", you know laughing There are either inadequate - newcomers, or CIPSO employees, with rare exceptions. Shpakovsky's assessment ... Not decisive ... There are few smart, many cunning, few - thinking - rationalists who know how to manage. Management - in itself "dumb" thing. Sometimes, out of fear, it is divided into 4 response options ....
                    If you are interested, you can scroll through Zlotnikov, but he also has a scheme that is not close to reality. But there is a general tone for analysis feel
                    1. Nephilim
                      Nephilim 19 October 2022 19: 00
                      -1
                      There are either inadequate - beginners
                      , or inadequate old men, just in the amount of 99 percent.
                      1. Fat
                        Fat 19 October 2022 19: 47
                        +2
                        Is a half-filled glass half-empty or half-full? Do not flatter yourself. easily hit the 0,01 remaining idiots
                      2. Nephilim
                        Nephilim 19 October 2022 19: 51
                        -1
                        Obviously, you know better what percentage you belong to, I see no reason to challenge the choice.
                      3. Fat
                        Fat 19 October 2022 20: 38
                        +1
                        Yes! I'm just a Genius, away from doubt! wassat laughing fellow
                        If you think yourself a bore, then you are mistaken - the bore is me ... good drinks
                      4. Nephilim
                        Nephilim 19 October 2022 21: 00
                        -1
                        this is me...


                        The text of your comment is too short and in the opinion of the site administration does not carry useful information.
                      5. Fat
                        Fat 19 October 2022 21: 16
                        +1
                        I draw, cut, sculpt in a different way ... And everywhere I am, my trace. Is it bad? He did a lot of good things, it’s a pity that he could have done more, but it didn’t happen.
                      6. Nephilim
                        Nephilim 19 October 2022 21: 33
                        0
                        We're not joking -
                        We live on Earth.
                        She was beaten with iron, washed with blood.
                        And are we going to leave?
                        Like grass without a trace
                        And become dust?
                      7. Fat
                        Fat 19 October 2022 21: 50
                        +2
                        Built a house, gave birth to a son, planted a tree? They will not forget their own, others will not forgive! laughing
                      8. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2022 22: 24
                        +2
                        Not funny, Borisych. The man is at war. And, on the other hand.
                        And they won't forgive themselves. And others will not forget.
                      9. Fat
                        Fat 19 October 2022 22: 58
                        +1
                        Not my words. I appreciate the Wisdom of the experienced, not the fact that everyone likes it, especially not the fact that the intellect spent the night somewhere nearby, but experience?! So what? Not every diploma will say about the end of the university cycle ... Now I sometimes think: did I do the right thing when building objects in the region, or was it better to sit at the archive in the office?
                      10. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 21 October 2022 13: 41
                        0
                        They are just different paths. And there is no point in looking for differences. As a child, I read a phrase from an oriental fairy tale: "Never regret what you have done." I like her very much.
    2. Fat
      Fat 19 October 2022 22: 40
      +1
      Is it bad? if I were hooked (and hooked on the guard) to the Preobrazhensky cycle, I would get only 1686 to 1705, at least a few dozen cycles. So, Valery is modest and laconic. Well, "ALGA"!
  6. Seal
    Seal 19 October 2022 12: 00
    0
    Beautiful, but completely unsubstantiated fairy tale. Right here
    Kote pane Kokhanka (Vladislav) offered you
    "dig deep"

    It’s a pity that he didn’t specify what exactly he offered you to dig. So what did you personally "dig"? Or did you act according to the method well described by Anatole France in the novel "Penguin Island" ???
    Have you dug up at least one authentic document of the very era you are writing about, which has come down to the time of historical materialism in the original?
    1. lisikat2
      lisikat2 19 October 2022 15: 49
      +3
      "in the original" You need a personal signature: MARK ANTONIA?.
      I am quite satisfied with Tacitus or Pliny. They wrote about the events that they themselves saw, heard from the participants, even if the event happened, 89-100 years before them. It is easier for them to understand the essence.
      By the way, a question for Valery: which of the historians of that time does he value more?
    2. Fat
      Fat 21 October 2022 14: 00
      0
      Bezrolitno ... I'm playing - I'm not living those times, And yes, the point of view of the Creators of the game, Ubisoft, cannot coincide with mine. Although their attempts are worthy of respect.
  7. Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 19 October 2022 12: 47
    +3
    Sextus - sort of like the "sixth"... didn't the rest of the kids survive?
    1. Nephilim
      Nephilim 19 October 2022 13: 49
      +1
      Sextus is a classical Roman praenomen. It was given to the sixth child, then to those born in the sixth month. In this case, the latter is likely, since Sextus Pompeius Magnus Pius was the third child in the third marriage of Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus.
      1. Fat
        Fat 19 October 2022 14: 40
        +2
        hi Of all the children of the Great Pompey, only three survived from the third EMNIP wife ... The daughters of the plebeian Scaevola, Mucia Tertius ... And Gnei Pompey had 5 wives ...
        1. Nephilim
          Nephilim 19 October 2022 15: 29
          0
          Of all the children of Great Pompey, only three survived from the third wife EMNIP

          And he had no children from other wives, except for a premature baby, who lived a few days, from the fourth (who died in childbirth) wife. The presence of a certain daughter, about which Settipani speaks, is an extremely debatable issue.
          1. Fat
            Fat 19 October 2022 15: 41
            +2
            hi Suetonius narrates about the life path of Pompeii Magna..."LIFE OF THE TWELVE CAESARS
            (De vita Caesarum)"
            ...
            Or are you talking about another person?
            1. Nephilim
              Nephilim 19 October 2022 15: 48
              0
              Or are you talking about another person?

              No, not about the other one, about the Great Pomp. True, Suetonius in relation to his biography is not even a secondary source.
              1. Fat
                Fat 19 October 2022 16: 09
                +3
                What about primary sources? Little has come down from the first sources - the originals. Unless the Schemes of the directions of Roman roads, and then because they were made in stone ... laughing drinks
                Leave ... What kind of info is there, we use this one. Sometimes the sources complement each other, sometimes they contradict.
                Objective is still extremely small, do not find it. Everything can be used to recreate the images of antiquity.
                Even the censuses of the monks of the Middle Ages, although they didn’t care what to transfer to a new parchment, instead of a rotten scroll ...
                To revitalize the people from our discussion, of course, there is a benefit. And for the "search for truth" use is zero smile
                1. Nephilim
                  Nephilim 19 October 2022 18: 50
                  0
                  Yes, judging by the minuses, the people perked up. Although I doubt that the revived have an idea of ​​the essence of the issue.
                  1. Fat
                    Fat 19 October 2022 19: 50
                    +1
                    So it's easy to scrape together information on the issue. Many, but not all, of course.
                    With respect.
                    1. Nephilim
                      Nephilim 19 October 2022 19: 57
                      -1
                      Paradoxically, despite the fact that today, if desired, you can access almost any information without leaving their home, the vast majority categorically do not want to "scrape". Or it can't.
                      1. Fat
                        Fat 19 October 2022 20: 24
                        0
                        Quote from Nephilim
                        the majority "scrape" categorically does not want. Or it can't.

                        There are no words. Just not interested. Ivans who do not remember kinship ....
  8. Sower
    Sower 19 October 2022 14: 36
    +2
    Informatively! Thank you. The life of people threw it up and down.
    1. lisikat2
      lisikat2 19 October 2022 16: 30
      0
      "fortune girl, windy" (c)
  9. faterdom
    faterdom 19 October 2022 15: 06
    +2
    Here were the personalities. Large-scale.
    And now ... Macrop, Scholz, trails ... some kind of dredge ... Ugh!
  10. astra wild2
    astra wild2 19 October 2022 15: 13
    +3
    Valery, colleagues Good afternoon.
    The world is not arranged fairly: yesterday "History" was empty and I had a big break, but today it's the other way around. I read it a long time ago and I'm writing now.
    What do you think: 3 mouths + am I easy to feed?
    It always takes a long time.
    1. lisikat2
      lisikat2 19 October 2022 16: 06
      +2
      Firstly, not 3, but 2 mouths: daughter and myself: we will arrange your daughter-in-law for work, and I’ll pick it up in the evening. I'll pull through history.
      Secondly: "its own burden does not pull"
  11. lisikat2
    lisikat2 19 October 2022 15: 32
    +1
    Good day everyone.
    Valery, to be honest, I practically don’t know this topic, but I didn’t want to look like a laughingstock. I like to be at least a little in the "topic", when I'm in the "topic" I can observe and evaluate who is right.
  12. lisikat2
    lisikat2 19 October 2022 16: 22
    +1
    "inglorious death" Valery, here it turns out a philosophical question: if he had won, he would have been in the "halo of glory" in any case.
    "History is written by the winner"
  13. Seal
    Seal 19 October 2022 21: 59
    -1
    Quote from lisikat2
    "in the original" You need a personal signature: MARK ANTONIA?.
    I am quite satisfied with Tacitus or Pliny.
    In principle, of course, I would like to see at least a word written by at least one of the "ancient Greeks" or "ancient Romans" in authenticнike. A word written by the hand of the so-called "Mark Antony" (or as you called him "Antony") would absolutely suit me. But you are not interested and it does not matter to you. So how are you quite satisfied with Tacitus or Pliny? Excuse me, please answer one simple question: "Is the handwriting of at least one of them known to mankind"?
    And more importantly. Versions of history cannot be created on the basis of narrative historical sources alone. In order for thinking people to accept versions of history, it is necessary that the information gleaned by the creators of the version of history from narrative sources is at least somewhat supported by documentary historical sources. And this principle has been known for a long time. I'm not discovering anything new here.
    The positivist paradigm in source studies is most consistently developed in the work of Sh.-V. Langlois and C. Segnobos "Introduction to the Study of History" (1898), which is based on a course of lectures they delivered at the Sorbonne in the 1896/97 academic year. Sh.-V. Langlois (1863-1929) - medievalist historian, professor at the Sorbonne, holder of a diploma from the National School of Charters, director of the National Archives (1912-1929), member (since 1917), then president (since 1925) of the Academy of inscriptions and belles-lettres . C. Segnobos (1854–1942) – professor at the Sorbonne (1890), began his research activity with the study of ancient and medieval history, later specialized in modern history, author of the work “Political History of Modern Europe” (1897).
    "Introduction to the Study of History" begins with a formula that over time has become an aphorism:
    History is written according to documents. Documents are traces left by the thoughts and actions of people who once lived <…>. Every thought and every deed that has not left a direct or indirect trace, or whose visible trace has disappeared, is forever lost to history, as if it had never existed <…>. Nothing can replace documents: there are none, there is no history
  14. Seal
    Seal 19 October 2022 22: 07
    -2
    Quote from Nephilim
    Paradoxically, despite the fact that today, if desired, you can access almost any information without leaving their home, the vast majority categorically do not want to "scrape". Or it can't.

    Here I am one of those. Well, I can’t scrape together a single documentary historical source anywhere left from the state document flow of the so-called "Ancient Roman Republic" or "Ancient Roman Empire" (as well as other "ancient republics or empires). If you can scrape together and probably something scraped together, be so kind as to give a link where you can see a decree, order or other administrative document that has come down to the times of historical materialism of at least some ancient Roman consul, king, tribune, caesar, August, September, October, etc. Well, or maybe you scraped together at least one Protocol of at least one meeting of the Ancient Roman Senate (or the Ancient Greek Areopagus). Well, at least something, but only documentary. After all, I believe that the "Ancient Roman Empire" is still not a gang of Old Man Angel and without maintaining state document management could not exist.
    1. Fat
      Fat 19 October 2022 23: 19
      +1
      Leave hope. Not much evidence of this civil war...
    2. Fat
      Fat 19 October 2022 23: 47
      +1
      Quote: Seal
      The "Ancient Roman Empire" is still not a gang of the Old Man Angel and could not exist without the conduct of state document management. It is so ?

      So! but the transition from "republic" to "empire" took some time. There was chaos. Let's see what Valery will show and tell us
  15. Seal
    Seal 20 October 2022 08: 08
    -2
    Quote: Thick
    Let's see what Valery will show and tell us
    It would be better to show. And ...... let's say correctly, everyone can "tell".