Military Review

Myths of Ukrainian history

179
Myths of Ukrainian history14 August 2012, in Kiev, was a presentation of a series called “500 seconds of truth about Ukraine,” in which the authors tried to debunk the current interpretation of the Ukrainian stories. The film was presented by activists of the “Alternative” political club. According to the idea of ​​the authors, the video should expose the mythologization of Ukrainian history by independent forces with respect to certain moments: the constitution of Orlik, the national flag, the battle of Kruty and others. Currently, the network can find and view 10 movies from this series. However, the authors promised that they intend to continue to work in this direction in the future.


It is noteworthy, but many Russian historians hold similar positions on Ukrainian history, arguing that the whole history of Ukraine is a complete myth that allows the authorities to keep the people under control, instilling in them the principles of national consciousness and self-identification. In particular, many online resources can be found with research on this topic. One of such studies is an article entitled “The Great Ukrainian Myth”, published under the pseudonym Antip Glymov in the Odessa newspaper Nashe Delo.

The author of the article proves that historical mythologization is a fairly common phenomenon. Myths were present in the history of almost every state, because both the state and the people themselves invent legends about themselves, trying to show their significance. And very often this happens outside their will - just historical events are interpreted in the way they would like to be seen in reality. Very often, it is the desire to confirm that certain prejudices are true, much stronger than historical facts. And, interestingly, the mythologization of history continues in our time. As an example, the author of the article cites the Great Ukrainian myth, saying that it is very convenient and practical in terms of self-identification of the nation, proclaiming the conciliarity of the Ukrainian state. But at the same time, this myth is very insidious, and first of all for the Ukrainian people themselves, because it replaces entire historical layers, thus displacing the truth.

Glymov says that the Ukrainian myth has its own interpretation of historical events, exposing in a favorable light all negative events and phenomena, and sometimes refutes the facts recognized by all. In particular, the Ukrainian myth claims that the ancient Russian history is the Ukrainian history. The author cites as examples of forgery the names of historical characters, in particular, I. Vishnevetsky, B. Khmelnitsky, M. Doroshenko, arguing that they are all called Ukrainian figures, even though they themselves felt Russian.

The author says that the Ukrainian myth claims that Ukrainians are a special nation, that they are not at all part of the Russian people. The author consistently tries to prove that in the XVI-XVII centuries there was no mention of Ukraine, and all attempts by Ukrainian historians to state the opposite are based on Cossack ideology. Glymov argues that in fact the Cossacks were almost robbers who were not interested in anything other than personal gain. Therefore, they did not stop at the killings, intrigues, coups, betrayal and chaos. The Cossacks could not create their own state, because for them the concept of sedentary life and peasant work was unacceptable. And the whole Cossack democracy is nothing but the power of the crowd.

In addition to attacks on the history of the Cossacks, the author very unflatteringly speaks of both the “History of the Russov” and the “History of the Ukrainian people” P. Kulesh, and the “History of the Little Russia” M. Markevich, saying that all these works are based on the lie that all they are fundamentally contrary to historical truth and documents.

In addition, the article also contains reflections on the fact that the early Ukrainophiles, including Nechui-Levitsky, Kotlyarevsky, Kvitka-Osnovyanenko, Kulish, Kostomarov, were not at all against union with the fraternal peoples. And that the direction of Ukrainophilism into the mainstream of Russophobia began after the appearance of Polish agents in this movement, in particular, V.Antonovich. In addition, the author says that among Ukrainophiles there were a large number of representatives of other nationalities.

Part of the study is devoted to the Ukrainian language, which the author calls not only the Russian-Polish jargon. Glymov argues that the Ukrainian language was used only by Ukrainian writers whose works were never a success. The author says that the Ukrainian language is much lower than the Russian, and that it is unsuitable for communication of the elite.

There are mentions of the OUN-UPA and its leaders, as well as the creation of such a thing as integral Ukrainian nationalism, the author of which D. Dontsov borrowed many of the postulates from Hitler. The essence of ideology, according to the author of the study, was that it was based on the ideas of social Darwinism, according to which a nation is a natural species, so it must wage constant wars with other nations for territory and survival. The nation was built on the principle of hierarchy, at the head of which was the leader, and his closest circle was called the elite. The driving forces of nationalism are will, strength (including physical), violence, territorial seizure, racism, fanaticism, mercilessness towards enemies, hatred of others.

Thus, a very definite conclusion suggests itself: the author is a Ukrainophobe who considers Ukrainians to be a lower race, “cattle”.

Unfortunately, such studies are not isolated. So, a great interest in this context is the book-investigation of Maxim Kalashnikov and Sergei Buntovsky entitled “Independent Ukraine. The collapse of the project ", which, apparently, served as the basis for the article Glymova, because in it all the thoughts expressed are similar to those found in this book. To be more precise, the Glymov study is some fragments of phrases taken out of context, which the author has distributed in chronological order.

At the same time, there are historians in Ukraine who approach the interpretation of historical events more objectively, trying to take into account all factors and principles, or at least bring more weighty evidence to support their words. So, in particular, academician of the Ukrainian Academy of Sciences, director of the Institute of Archeology Petr Petrovich Tolochko, says that the situation that has developed at the moment in the scientific world is very serious. If we talk about Ukrainian science, then in this area there are no decent conditions for work. Financing of science is at a very low level, which was the reason why some scientists left in search of a better life in the West and in Russia, and some tried to adapt to new living conditions, starting “making history to order”.

Unfortunately, P.Tolochko believes, historical science is very close to ideology. Therefore, in different historical periods of the state’s development, they tried to use history as an ideological tool. As for the present, now a myth is being mythologized, that is, an attempt to force the past to serve the present. Therefore, there are ideas that in the past the Ukrainian nation was strong and powerful, and they try to search for the Ukrainians in ancient times. As an example, the academician gives Tripoli culture. Her study is engaged in a huge number of scientists and people far from archeology. One of these people is the deputy I. Zaets, who by the nature of his work is an economist. However, he declares that he has read three dozen books on Tripoli, and he can definitely say that Tripolis are Ukrainians. A deputy can only be envied, because even those scientists who wrote (and did not read) the same amount of research still cannot say who the Tripoli people really were. According to P.Tolochko, everything that is happening now is based on an inferiority complex. Tripolskaya culture is known to all, so why not proclaim it part of the history of Ukraine? At the time when Tripoli culture existed, at least a dozen others developed, so why nobody pays attention to them? Because no one has heard anything about them ...

This applies not only to Tripoli, but also to Scythian culture. But after all, even if Tripoli can be at least territorially connected with the Ukrainians, because it was located on the territory of modern Ukraine, then the Scythians were generally nomadic people who had nothing to do with the Ukrainians, these are ancient Iranians who came from across the Caspian .

Further, the situation is not the best way. Kievan Rus was declared by the Ukrainian state, although in reality it was a state that occupied vast territories and which was subsequently divided into Ukrainians, Belarusians and Russians. Nevertheless, some unscrupulous scholars are not shy about declaring Kievan Rus as a Ukrainian state, which very often leads to curiosities when the Kiev prince is called Ukrainian, and Vladimir Vladimir is called Moskal, although in reality it’s about blood relatives - father and son.

Of course, I would like to hope that all this is done with the best of intentions, and that all these myths are placed in school textbooks only for the purpose of fostering patriotism among the younger generation, and that Ukrainian science will soon recover from the mythology.

If we talk about politics, here such a thrust will remain very, very long. After all, every force that comes to power reinterprets history in its own way, and what seemed yesterday to be an important stage in the development of the Ukrainian state will be perceived tomorrow as a trifle or will be denied altogether.

In such a situation it is very important to try to stop at trying to seem better than we really are. And in no case should one allow the political forces that periodically replace each other, in order to satisfy their ambitions, to twist the story in the way they want.

Materials used:
http://worldandwe.com/ru/page/V_Kieve__s_bolshim_uspehom_proshla_prezentaciya_DVDdiska_500_sekund_pravdy_ob_Ukraine.html
http://xn--b1adccaencl0bewna2a.xn--p1ai/index.php/history/52-articles/5099-velikii-ukrainskii-mif
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179 comments
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  1. King
    King 25 October 2012 08: 19
    +9
    Good film. I advise everyone to see
    1. seagal_vvv
      seagal_vvv 25 October 2012 13: 17
      -1
      a stupid provocative film with an inadequate assessment of historical podias (I haven’t yet ordered propaganda for the first time I’m nasty but then thinking about that wretched hto tse having written only on the whole lot of the same "great" same I don't know)
      1. Yars
        Yars 25 October 2012 13: 41
        +2
        seagal - really, look more? And for that reason, "the assessment of historical podіy" is inadequate ?! I think I will order propaganda for you yakraz i nav "yazali, so nav" yazali scho you think it's true!
        1. Allegedly
          Allegedly 25 October 2012 13: 58
          +1
          It is necessary to ban one more Svidomo, I think the ban is already on the way ... Guys go from here, there is a shortage of such topics on Lviv sites ...

          PS And in another way it does not happen. Go to the Elves, there they will understand and help you ... (c) EM
          1. vasev
            vasev 25 October 2012 14: 19
            0
            Do you like to always hesitate only with the party’s general line? wink
            1. Allegedly
              Allegedly 25 October 2012 14: 25
              +4
              You to me don't poke
              1. vasev
                vasev 25 October 2012 15: 10
                +1
                I apologize hi

                So, would you deign to answer my question: How do you feel about the pluralism of opinions among people? Or do you think that for the most favorable development of society it is necessary to choose a model of behavior "herd and leader"?
                1. Allegedly
                  Allegedly 25 October 2012 15: 50
                  +3
                  Pluralism (from lat. Pluralis - multiple) is a philosophical position according to which there are many different equal, independent and irreducible forms of knowledge (points of view, etc.). Your theses border on rudeness, and do not camouflage it under pluralism. You can express an opinion, like any other person, but you are obliged to argue it. Want to be heard, deign to be understood.
                  1. vasev
                    vasev 25 October 2012 16: 13
                    +1
                    I need one more Svidomita ban, I think the ban is on its way ... Guys go from here, on the Lviv sites of a similar subject shortage ...

                    PS And in another way it does not happen. Go to the Elves, there they will understand and help you ... (c) EM


                    That is, your statement you do not consider boorish ???
                    Naturally not ... :)

                    My opinion is that in your statement there is an element of rudeness and profanity. But this is MY opinion about YOU. And I will be heard and understood by you ... yes, I’m kind of like a drum, I’m not a doctor for you smile
                  2. sv-sakh
                    sv-sakh 26 October 2012 04: 41
                    0

                    Let's live in peace...
                2. nnz226
                  nnz226 25 October 2012 17: 11
                  +6
                  Pluralism is just what is needed, otherwise the svidomye are running around with their invented version of the story "like fools with a written bag." Moreover, the option is not confirmed by anything. Russian princes from Rurik continued to rule Russia, and the name Kievskaya does not mean anything except that for some time after Novgorod, Kiev was a capital city, then the capital of Russia moved to Vladimir, Moscow, Peter, again to Moscow. And where does Vladimir the Baptist, Yaroslav the Wise and some kind of state formation that emerged only in 1992 ??
                  Ivan the Terrible, the Tsar of Veliky, Little and White Russia was a direct descendant on the male line of the same Vladimir, like Alexander Nevsky, Yuri Dolgoruky, etc. And where were the ancestors of Mazep, Vygovsky, and other Sagaidachny - a big question !!! It is unlikely that they were admitted to the princely court of the great Russian princes. That is pluralism. History, for the sake of your fool, cannot be rewritten and passed off as some kind of truth ...
                  1. vasev
                    vasev 25 October 2012 17: 34
                    0
                    So I’m only FOR a variety of opinions, but a friend with a kitten offers to ban, because someone’s vision of history is different from the generally accepted one.
                  2. Allegedly
                    Allegedly 25 October 2012 19: 54
                    0
                    Correctly said "fool with a written torbu". And what can you say about history? smile , there is nothing more fickle than the past, new kings, new presidents come, and my darling has rushed to change everything retroactively ...
    2. Felix200970
      Felix200970 26 October 2012 00: 34
      0
      Yes, the film is about nothing. An attempt to tell the story of Ukrainian lands in a new way, but just not as it is. Yes, in this film (as well as in the article) there are no less mistakes than in the accepted for study in schools. For example: Prince Vishnevetsky (Baida) (he was indicated in the photo) was named a Pole of the royal kind, and the article generally decided that they (I. Vishnevetsky, B. Khmelnitsky, M. Doroshenko) considered themselves Russian. Rusyns - yes. Russian - no. Princes Vishnevetsky were magnates (large feudal lords) Orthodox. And they could not sit on the Polish throne. Only Prince Jeremiah could sit on the throne, and even then on Molodovsky, since he was the grandson of the Moldavian ruler Jeremiah the Grave. The right to the Polish throne appeared only in his son Mikhail Tomos. And then only after Prince Jeremiah converted to Catholicism. Michael Tomosh and was elected king of Poland in 1668. I specially emphasized the word "elected" since Poland at that time was a republic. Only the Poles do not really respect the language of limes, so they did not show off and called the head of the executive branch a king. In general, you can go on long and tediously. And about the lack of understanding (or concealment of understanding) of the authors that the principality of Lithuania comes from the word "Litvin" and has nothing to do with modern Lithuanians (Zhmudi). Etc. etc.
      1. Lucky
        Lucky 26 October 2012 11: 23
        +3
        Ukraine and Russia are one people and the point, why talk here, sooner or later we will love together
    3. Dnepropetrovsk
      Dnepropetrovsk 1 November 2012 00: 04
      0
      The film is shit, Ukrainophobia.
    4. Dnepropetrovsk
      Dnepropetrovsk 1 November 2012 00: 07
      -1
      Film gamno ukrainofoby fucking.
  2. omsbon
    omsbon 25 October 2012 09: 14
    +9
    I must say that I liked the film "500 seconds of the truth about Ukraine".
    Well, the dependence of history on current politics has always been in Russia, and in Ukraine, and in other countries.
  3. Slevinst
    Slevinst 25 October 2012 09: 26
    +3
    The point was X-oh-land to separate, still can not get used to the fact that Ukraine, Belarus and Russia are different states
    1. NAV-STAR
      NAV-STAR 25 October 2012 12: 28
      23
      We are one people living in different states. I don’t understand how to relate blood relatives to different nations.
      Errors of the 90s need to be fixed.
      1. admirer
        admirer 25 October 2012 13: 02
        11
        This is not clear to many, I have half of my relatives in Ukraine. Difficult to fix, we now each have their own "elite" so to speak. Our campaign is not averse to uniting, but looks at this issue from the position of a predator, but yours is afraid of being a victim.
      2. seagal_vvv
        seagal_vvv 25 October 2012 13: 19
        0
        with threat finances (just an hour over an hour overshadowed by the real world) NOT getting into just a movie
      3. Rink
        Rink 26 October 2012 01: 57
        +5
        NAV-STAR, I completely agree.
        Fantastic versions of history, printed in Ukrainian textbooks during the time of the Pimpled Prezik, URGENTLY need such sobering serials. A lie, even printed on paper, even with the stamp "Approved by the Ministry of Education" - remains a lie.
        And under its influence in Ukraine, an entire generation of semi-literate youth is growing ...
  4. PARROT
    PARROT 25 October 2012 09: 42
    16 th
    Find the author of the film and hard labor. Ukrainophobe, who has little knowledge of historical facts, is a traitor to the homeland, it is necessary that such people are found and go outside our country, let them speak the jargon that they like in Russia and other countries where such traitors are supported.
    1. biglow
      biglow 25 October 2012 09: 58
      15
      PARROT,
      in Ukraine there are no hard labor. In western Ukraine there were famous quarries. Where the Austrians organized a hard labor prison, they were abandoned for a long time. Apparently, stone and gravel are not needed. When you build the Volyn-Galician principality, you can restore it.
    2. Dimych
      Dimych 25 October 2012 10: 02
      +7
      And what do you write in this jargon, are you independent of ours?
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 15 February 2013 01: 52
        0
        This is not just jargon, but the so-called "shtetl surzhik".
  5. Slevinst
    Slevinst 25 October 2012 09: 45
    0
    PARROT,
    Naive
  6. vasev
    vasev 25 October 2012 09: 45
    +9
    Quote: Slevinst
    The point was X-oh-land to separate ...


    If the RSFSR, headed by Yeltsin, had not destroyed the USSR, by adopting the Declaration on State Sovereignty of the RSFSR, Ukraine and Belarus would not have left the Union ... And so: There’s nothing to blame for the mirror, since the face is crooked smile
    1. neri73-r
      neri73-r 25 October 2012 11: 30
      10
      Yes, yes, Russia and the Russians are to blame, and you, as always, have nothing to do with it !!!! Remember the second referendum, or was it still small? And I, well, remember very well what your mood was then, since I lived on the border (the RSFSR and the Ukrainian SSR), now we will drop the Russians, stop feeding them, then we’ll live better than in America !!! Nonsense, only a few in Ukraine understood that this is precisely nonsense!
      1. vasev
        vasev 25 October 2012 12: 24
        +3
        Yes, yes, Russia and the Russians are to blame, and you, as always, have nothing to do with it !!!!


        I do not block Ukraine. Just an example set an older brother, and the younger the worse. Everyone is to blame, but in justification I can say one thing: Now we are all so smart-wise, we understand the political situation, we won’t buy a red word and everything can be double-checked on the Internet ... and then there was a country of naive and unspoiled people who trusted authorities, or at least were not yet accustomed to think on their own.

        Remember the second referendum, or was it still small? And I, well, remember very well what your mood was then, since I lived on the border (the RSFSR and the Ukrainian SSR), now we will drop the Russians, stop feeding them, then we’ll live better than in America !!! Nonsense, only a few in Ukraine understood that this is precisely nonsense!


        Well, I could counterargument with the fact that Russia has already thrown off parasites for 20 years, and the standard of living is only 20 percent (IMHO) higher than in Ukraine (and this with such a resource base) ...
        1. plotnikov561956
          plotnikov561956 25 October 2012 14: 32
          +3
          Quote: vasev
          Well, I could counterargument with the fact that Russia has already thrown off parasites for 20 years, and the standard of living is only 20 percent (IMHO) higher than in Ukraine (and this with such a resource base) ..

          Regarding freeloaders. I remember these conversations ... Ukraine is the nurse of the Union ... utter nonsense with a detailed review of this postulate. Relatively 20% I will not comment and there is nothing to it. It's a juggling of cards. Russia since 2000 i.e. under Putin she began to get on her feet., and then she was forced to send huge sums to the army. Can you tell me how many new equipment appeared in 20 years of independence. and then Romania is already talking to you through teeth. If there weren’t Galicia near Russia, the power of Russia would come to Siberia .... this is already an axiom. and until the Slavic leader patriot appears in Ukraine .. there will be no reunion .. The last meeting of leaders demonstrated this ... Yes ..addition ... meetings will become more frequent, winter is just around the corner
          1. vasev
            vasev 25 October 2012 16: 00
            0
            Regarding parasites. I remember these conversations ... Ukraine is the nurse of the Union ... utter nonsense with a detailed review of this postulate


            So the Union fed Russia smile agreed.

            Relatively 20% I will not comment and there is nothing to it. This is a juggling of cards.

            Well, call another number? I’m even wondering how much cooler do you feel?


            Russia since 2000 i.e. under Putin she began to get on her feet., and then she was forced to send huge sums to the army.

            Putin has been in power for 12 years. I will not compare with Stalin, who raised the country in 12 years, I just wonder how many years Putin still needs to Russia in the world, if not afraid, then at least respected?


            Can you tell me how many new equipment appeared in 20 years of independence. otherwise Romania is already talking to you through gritted teeth. If there hadn’t been a number of Russia, Galicia would have been chopped off

            I don’t know about technology - not an expert.
            Through the teeth, the whole world is talking to you, and nothing - you live.
            Russia Crimea can not chop off back, but you are talking about some kind of protection ....


            The power of Russia will come to Siberia .... this is definitely an axiom

            In my opinion, this is your mess and slogans in your head ... I apologize for the harshness.

            and until a Slavic leader patriot appears in Ukraine .. there will be no reunion .. The last meeting of leaders demonstrated this

            If in Ukraine there appears a SLAVIC LEADER, then Russia will join Ukraine smile

            ... Yes .. add ... meetings will become more frequent, winter is just around the corner

            I will disappoint you, dear Russian, for the needs of the population in Ukraine, own gas is produced, which is why the cost of gas for the population in Ukraine is cheaper than in Russia yes
      2. vasev
        vasev 25 October 2012 14: 05
        +1
        If the RSFSR, headed by Yeltsin, would not have destroyed the USSR by the adoption of the Declaration of Independence, then neither Ukraine nor Belarus would have left the USSR.
  7. Slevinst
    Slevinst 25 October 2012 09: 53
    +7
    vasev,
    Yes, Yeltsin was an alcoholic, and a bastard, so yes, the saying is true that rats flee from a sinking ship when it was good they didn’t separate, they ran poorly, they didn’t look beautiful
    1. revnagan
      revnagan 25 October 2012 13: 29
      +4
      Quote: Slevinst
      became badly scattered, it doesn’t look very beautiful

      Well, firstly, when they ran away, it was not "bad" yet.
      And secondly, whose words: "Take as much independence as you can"?
      1. v53993
        v53993 25 October 2012 21: 17
        +1
        How's whose? Drunk EBN, a friend of Kravchuk, by the way. The Russians understood and acknowledged this, and now they are trying to correct what these figures have done. Here are just a Ukrainian elite drawn to the source of green candy wrappers more than to their native fat.
        1. Drednout
          Drednout 26 October 2012 00: 19
          +3
          Quote: v53993
          Here are just a Ukrainian elite drawn to the source of green candy wrappers more than to their native fat.

          And our elite, in general, is also not interested in barley porridge and is attracted to kvass.
    2. 11Goor11
      11Goor11 25 October 2012 18: 27
      +5
      Slevinst
      the proverb is true that rats flee from a sinking ship when it was good they didn’t separate, they ran poorly, they didn’t look very beautiful

      So, okay, here I am an average resident of Kiev, during the collapse of the USSR I was already at a conscious age, by your definition, am I one of the rats that escaped from a sinking ship? Please explain your thought. You meant the republics fleeing from the sinking ship of the USSR - rats, or each individual citizen of the republics "separated from Russia" - a rat.
      And if at all, the statement about rats is your strong conviction, and most Russian citizens think so, please answer one more question: is it reasonable to strive to unite with a country in which you are not considered a human being?
      1. neri73-r
        neri73-r 25 October 2012 23: 12
        -3
        You have now written utter nonsense!
  8. PARROT
    PARROT 25 October 2012 09: 57
    -9
    From the point of view of the vocabulary, the most popular to the Ukrainian one is Bilorussian language (84% of the social vocabulary), then the Polish (70% of the special vocabulary), Slovak (68% of the special vocabulary) and Russian language (62% of the special vocabulary) [38]. For the butt, behind its vocabulary, English language is displayed as Dutch by 37%, and Swedish as Norwegian by 16%. Speaking about Polish-Ukrainian jargon, the author does not know simple speeches and does not analyze them. Because of the fact that they called themselves Ruska richly Ukrainian children, then at that time people respected themselves as Russians, but not Russian, but it was not Kiev Russia, but Kiev Rus, but about the history of that, as well as some people just read it from my friends, everybody started thinking about it from the Mongolian people to Russia, the part of the population was deprived, part of the population was lost, part of the population was lost from the larger spokyiní social regions, I’m about the Muscovites, the people of Ukraine, the more Ukrainian part of the country. , then those people who seized the lands of the Ukrainians from the surplus of these peoples, who didn’t help our old people, they didn’t help us at the winter, but I wondered at the stench of the fields, they didn’t know at once they took Moscow and tried to sign an armistice, and only if the Poles didn’t think they couldn’t see the women, the Cossacks went for help to the bridesmaids, as they were asking for help against the Poles, but for a year.
    Before the speech, the agreement on the protectorate of Russia was signed by the transfer.
    I can see what commentary, which can be enshrined in such articles by the Ukrainians, and I can not think of adminstration not є rozpalyuvannya nat. vorozhnechі.
    1. omsbon
      omsbon 25 October 2012 10: 17
      +1
      Quote: PARROT
      points to the dawn of vocabulary most familiar to Ukrainian є biloruska mov


      Who is this self-employed man talking to?
      1. black_eagle
        black_eagle 25 October 2012 11: 22
        10
        There are a lot of people with whom, the site is still international, our peoples have always been and are brotherly, they have always lived together, and I don’t know who is more inciting hostility, one who glorifies his people, even if they aren’t verified data, or one who pours dirt on a neighbor calling all its history is fiction, and the fact that they cost nothing, the article is an unambiguous minus, and the site administration wishes to take a closer look at the articles, because with such essays you can hurt the pride and patriotism of individuals, since each of us has our own life values ​​and we must respect them , these are the signs of a civilized society
      2. sas
        sas 25 October 2012 11: 35
        -5
        You, as fraternal people, from one cradle, so to speak, should understand Ukrainian without any problems. Is not it? Or do you have difficulties with this?
        1. admirer
          admirer 25 October 2012 13: 09
          +3
          We understand Ukrainian, until they start to show off and insert either Polish words or newspeak.
          1. sas
            sas 25 October 2012 17: 27
            0
            I didn’t ask you. And what is the problem with Polish? They are also Slavs.
            1. Alexander Petrovich
              Alexander Petrovich 25 October 2012 21: 55
              +1
              They are Catholics and this is no longer Slavs.
              1. tambu
                tambu 26 October 2012 01: 57
                0
                Poles (Polish. Polacy, poles) - the most numerous West Slavic people

                Moldavians (moldovan or rum. Moldoveni) - people romance language group

                Romanians (rum. Români) - people in Europe (number 23,5 million people), speak the Romanian language pOmani language group Indo-European family ...

                Who would argue regarding the Slavs .....
        2. maxbrov74
          maxbrov74 25 October 2012 16: 50
          +8
          What, meno sala? Yes, what’s wrong? We are not fraternal peoples. We are one people. Remember for the future dear, so that there is something to remember when you run across the Romanian border
          1. sas
            sas 25 October 2012 17: 31
            -6
            "We are one people. Remember for the future, dear, so that you have something to remember when you run across the Romanian border" - will we run? look, do not cringe, dear. I'm at home and I'm not going to run anywhere.
            What, meno sala? Yes, what’s wrong? - I am shocked by your deep knowledge in the Ukrainian language. Bravo. lol
      3. Allegedly
        Allegedly 26 October 2012 02: 53
        +2
        Yes, these clowns have already been banned, they are doing what they are not asking for, they write comments here in all the languages ​​they want. In Lviv that there are no Ukrainian-language sites? Well, gas prices have risen, they are supposedly rising everywhere, so now come here and express all sorts of nasty things? Maybe this is such a revenge? Imagine I’ll register on a Portuguese site, and I’ll be insolent to write comments in Russian there? Yes, even in Catalan, do you think they will tolerate me for a long time?

        PS It is difficult to say which language is the most convenient, but I am personally sure that this one ...
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 26 October 2012 02: 55
          +1
          % points ++++++++++ bully
    2. klimpopov
      klimpopov 25 October 2012 10: 48
      0
      ioiuwefjs.djsl.kj! lliebehqiku hdh rfio, erhekejjjcl !!! i oujwfppsleo !!!
      I will add. Bmsd, lljhklkk ksjhdfkj l ll wieiuuu ejhd, jns, dscn klkjhc sldljdj !!!
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 25 October 2012 10: 52
        +3
        Quote: klimpopov
        oiuwefjs.djsl.kj! lliebehqiku hdh rfio, erhekejjjcl !!! i oujwfppsleo !!!

        Klim, Klava switch to Russian laughing
        1. klimpopov
          klimpopov 25 October 2012 10: 55
          +5
          Why can this claudia not be switched to Russian but I don’t?
        2. klimpopov
          klimpopov 25 October 2012 14: 32
          -1
          In vain removed it was sarcasm))))
    3. alebor
      alebor 25 October 2012 11: 27
      11
      Indeed, Belarusian is lexically the closest to Ukrainian, since the ancestors of Ukrainians and Belarusians lived together for a long time under the rule of Lithuania and the Commonwealth, while the Russians already had their own states-principalities, later united by Moscow. But the figures about the greater similarity with the West Slavic Polish and Slovak languages ​​indicate that the most western Galician and Ruthenian dialects were taken as the standard of "Ukrainian". The further east you go, the more the Ukrainian dialects become similar to southern Russian and less to West Slavic.
      Indeed, the old Russian state was called Russia and not Russia and not Kievan Rus (historians began to add the epithet Kievan in the 19th century to indicate the era when Kiev was the capital, and Russia came from Byzantium, as the Greeks pronounced the word Rus). That is why the descendants of the inhabitants of Russia, the guardians of its history, traditions, faith and language, still call themselves Russian and call their language Russian (and not at all a Russian language, as PARROT writes)
      1. sas
        sas 25 October 2012 12: 16
        12 th
        "while the Russians already had their own states-principalities, later united by Moscow." - then, as the Russians had their uluses as part of the Golden Horde. This will be more accurate.
        "The further east you go, the more Ukrainian dialects become similar to southern Russian and less to West Slavic." - checked yourself? "Southern Russians" - do you mean Kuban speech?
    4. neri73-r
      neri73-r 25 October 2012 11: 44
      10
      Here you have a native Ukrainian independent opinion of a non-Russian person, by the way, his Ukrainian citizen, it is extremely difficult to suspect a love of Russian, however, as well as hatred !!! The person is independent in relation to Russians and Ukrainians. Anatoly Wasserman - a Jew, a very smart and competent Jew, read and listen, you might be smarter, although it is unlikely, this is the fate of the mentally ill!

      http://topwar.ru/12326-anatoliy-vasserman-suschestvuyut-li-ukrainskiy-i-beloruss

      kiy-narody.html
      1. sas
        sas 25 October 2012 13: 14
        -1
        So get well. Who's in the way? Wasserman you say. Is he an uncontested authority? He doesn't like either Russians or Ukrainians, because he is a representative of the "superior race", the "chosen people". Looks at people like you as a piece of shit. Don't flatter yourself about Wasserman. This uncle is a paid provocateur. Typical freelancer. Its' his job. A person who understands everything, in fact, does not understand anything. I would not advise to satisfy my sick chauvinistic self-consciousness on the basis of the "works" of this subject.
        1. neri73-r
          neri73-r 25 October 2012 23: 20
          0
          Do you work in special services? Where does the infa about Wasserman ??? The words? Then these are just words! It is necessary to separate the flies from the cutlets, the people and the financial elite are not always the same, for example, the extermination of Jews (simple) by the Nazis on the order (and with the consent) of the Jewish financial elite in the Second World with a definite purpose!
        2. kostiknet
          kostiknet 29 October 2012 14: 49
          0
          and you, you have to understand the provocateur is not paid, on a voluntary basis? It looks like your opinion "in the world" is less valuable than air. Well, do not worry about the disease, you will grow wiser with age, you look and you, and not Wasserman, will be put as an example. (by the way - ENVYING SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE IS NOT GOOD, BUT SMART IS STUPID)
          Quote: Sas
          Do not flatter yourself about Wasserman. This uncle is a paid provocateur.
    5. rexby63
      rexby63 25 October 2012 11: 54
      +4
      You are wrong about Polish. The lexical connection between Polish and Ukrainian only through the Belarusian or Slovak languages. And Ukrainian has a direct connection with the Russian language. An example at the household level is my Ukrainian wife. If I rest with my mother-in-law for more than 3 weeks, then I almost automatically start speaking Ukrainian colloquial. This is the first thing. Second, at the institute he lived in a room with a Polish student. Having lived with him for more than six months and trying to comprehend the basics of the Polish spoken language, it failed. At the same time, I do not consider myself a "linguistic idiot" and languages ​​have always been easy enough.
      In my opinion, these figures are far-fetched and have no scientific basis.
    6. bistrov.
      bistrov. 25 October 2012 11: 55
      +7
      Quote: PARROT
      Bo Bula is not Kyiv Russia, but Kyiv Russia

      Pan "parrot" your eyes are not closed? The term "Kievan Rus" appeared much later, almost already in the 20th century, and there was always the expression "Rus" and not Kiev, then that this Rus was profiled by the princes of Kiev, this is true, after the Tatar-Mongol attack, the territory of modern Ukraine began to be torn apart into pieces Lithuanians, Hungarians, Poles, and by the middle of the 17th century "Ukraine" had an area of ​​only two modern regions, and if the well-known B. Khmelnitsky had not been reunited with Russia, then we would have forgotten the Slavic dialect in these territories long ago. In the Ukrainian language, and so up to 60% of Polish words, and the entire west of Ukraine professes Catholicism and Uniatism. What religion do you yourself? As for the Zaporozhye "Cossacks", they were mostly robbers and drunkards, and they always went with the one who paid more, this also applies to the campaign with the Poles to Moscow, by the way, by order of the Pope, and later their betrayals led by Mazepa, and modern Ukrainian propaganda made them fighters for the "will" of Ukraine.
      1. revnagan
        revnagan 25 October 2012 13: 40
        +6
        Quote: bistrov.
        As for the Zaporozhye "Cossacks", they were mostly robbers and drunks, and they always went with the one who paid more, this also applies to the campaign with the Poles to Moscow, by the way, on the orders of the Pope, and later their betrayals led by Mazepa , but modern Ukrainian propaganda made them fighters for the "will" of Ukraine.

        In, "horses, people mingled in a heap .." Did the Cossacks fight for money - Yes. And how many Cossacks followed Mazepa? Pshik. And how many times did the Cossacks disrupt Crimean "Ludolovs" campaigns for yasyr in Russia and Ukraine? Russia in its struggle with the Ottoman Empire? And the Zaporizhzhya Sich itself arose as an outpost, a cordon sanitaire between the Muslim slave trade Kyrym and Russia. So each fact needs to be dealt with separately, and not mixed together.
      2. sas
        sas 25 October 2012 17: 49
        -2
        "In the Ukrainian language, and so on, up to 60% of Polish words" - where are you such smart ones stamped? Common grammar only means common roots. By the way, the Ukrainian language has this kind of commonality not only and not so much with Polish, but first of all with Belarusian, and also with Slovak, Czech. In this case, we are talking about all-Slavic words, not Polish ones. No need to twist. But p "Russian" - bad luck. He has a similarity with the above fraternal, Slavic languages ​​is expressed to a much lesser extent. Khalepa!
        Khmelnytsky was reunited with Russia? Firstly, not "Reunited" Everything that remained under that agreement is hidden in Moscow. They hide them and do not show them to anyone, although there have been requests to open documents from the Ukrainian side. Russia responded with a categorical refusal. What is it for? Secondly, not with Russia (such a country did not exist then) but with Muscovy. (although the essence is the same)
        1. neri73-r
          neri73-r 25 October 2012 23: 26
          0
          The country of "Muscovy" never existed !!! There was a principality of Moscow, and the country was called Rus !!! Note not Kiev! And it was led by the Grand Duke of Moscow and the Tsar of All Russia ..................... And the Poles, your masters, called us Muscovy.
      3. 11Goor11
        11Goor11 25 October 2012 18: 42
        0
        bistrov
        As for the Zaporozhye "Cossacks", they were mainly robbers and drunkards

        After the corresponding words, the article says:
        Thus, a very definite conclusion suggests itself: the author is a Ukrainophobe who considers Ukrainians to be a lower race, “cattle”.
        Unfortunately, such studies are not isolated.
  9. biglow
    biglow 25 October 2012 10: 01
    +2
    It’s time to start using the historical names of these lands, Little Russia and Novorossia. And let Western Ukraine aka Galicia call itself what it wants
    1. ImpKonstantin
      ImpKonstantin 25 October 2012 11: 10
      +5
      And to name all our peoples - Russians, for then the Slavs did not divide, but the Russian people were divided into Little Russians, Belarusians and Great Russians
      1. DeamonFIre
        DeamonFIre 25 October 2012 12: 02
        +4
        Current we are not Little Russians =)) Little Russians are Russian Chinese ble ... will you be pleased if they call you little? Ukrainians will never accept such a diminutive name ... it is better to "remember" any other historical name of the southern Rus. Then at least one problem will be solved =)
        1. neri73-r
          neri73-r 25 October 2012 23: 28
          0
          Malorosia from the word LITTLE Russia, and not from LITTLE Russian, literate and smart, and this means, I’m silent about militants, it’s schizophrenia!
    2. seagal_vvv
      seagal_vvv 25 October 2012 13: 21
      0
      Well, what do you write?
  10. Leisure
    Leisure 25 October 2012 10: 02
    +2
    All kinds of amateurs and creative people climb into science, customize history for themselves.
  11. Slevinst
    Slevinst 25 October 2012 10: 13
    +1
    PARROT,
    few Ukrainian understand here
  12. AIvanA
    AIvanA 25 October 2012 10: 42
    +3
    Yes, to turn your land into someone’s land, sell your conscience for loot, more expensive, Ukraine Cossacks, but I have a question - after all, Ukraine is just the outskirts, or am I wrong? But is it the outskirts of something? And respected or not respected Samosti want or don't want to, but they play their violin in the work of an enlightened west, divide and conquer, and then they chop the Slavs, calling the places where they live and dressing this nationality, I'm sorry but it's just a meanness to my ancestors.
    1. tan0472
      tan0472 25 October 2012 12: 15
      0
      Quote: AIvanA
      but I have a question - after all, Ukraine is just the outskirts, or am I wrong?

      Right Earlier on the site, someone cited data that somewhere in the north of Russia there was a place that was also called Ukraine.
  13. Sirozha
    Sirozha 25 October 2012 10: 47
    11
    Guys, why is love for Ukraine, as an independent state, a nationalism, an undeveloped Bandera, self-sufficient, and with a huge share of negativity, but love for Russia is already patriotism!
    Why don’t you sleep since we separated? .. We like to be independent, we like our language (if someone cuts my Russian ear, I can switch to Ukrainian, but then some figures say that they don’t understand him , therefore, I’ll continue in Russian), even though the authorities have mu ... ki who don’t know where to go and whose ass to kiss ... Stop driving us, we want to be friends and cooperate with you, only the gawks in power need to be changed, but people are not against you!
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 25 October 2012 11: 06
      +2
      only gavnyukov in power need to be changed, but the people are not against you!

      Oh thank you!
      Do you want to be friends with us? HM interesting. Somehow imperceptibly, you want to get the benefits, while groaning us as soon as possible and trampling our history into the mud. And do not talk about politicians!
      Why don’t you sleep since we separated?

      And who is touching you? Like to be! Only independence is it not to rewrite history, but somewhat in another!
      but love for Russia is already patriotism!

      Because Russia is Mother !!! And love for her as a mother, and parents do not choose!
      And to an independent state beyond 600 km from me, I don’t care!

      Oh, I’m banned, oh well ...
    2. lelyk72
      lelyk72 25 October 2012 11: 25
      16
      1. I was born in Ukraine (in the Soviet Union) Now I live in Russia, I consider myself a citizen of the Soviet Union.
      2. Of course, there are individuals on the site who are "driven" at you, but, in my opinion, they are a minority. The majority is still for, at least, for friendship between Russia-Belarus-Ukraine. As a maximum, this is a union.
      3. "love for Ukraine, as for an independent state, is nationalism, Banderism is unfinished, independent, and with a huge amount of negativity" - no, no, and again no. Love for Ukraine is a Banderism and a crime only if it is based on the humiliation of Russia and the connection of the Ukrainian people with the Russian. Everyone, plz, answer who is for my thesis, who is against, preferably in the comments.
      1. DeamonFIre
        DeamonFIre 25 October 2012 11: 58
        +4
        Of course, I am against the Communists (for such a country was prosrali (I'm talking about the Russian Empire)) But I fully support the 3rd point !!!
        1. seagal_vvv
          seagal_vvv 25 October 2012 13: 24
          0
          Against the communism, the demand is not for the wrong country, "so the country is fucked up" and for that of great evil, the Ryadiansky union vzagaly especially in 20-50 rock did not get into the recent history
        2. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 25 October 2012 16: 09
          +5
          Quote: DeamonFIre
          I'm certainly against the communists

          Tsarist Russia was tarnished by the elite of Tsarist Russia; the Communists had to collect the country for the whole new liberal bourgeois swine.
      2. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 25 October 2012 16: 08
        10
        lelyk72,
        welcome hi .
        1. I was born in Belarus, grew up in the Far East, I live in Kiev, Russian by nationality, I am a citizen of the USSR (AAA Who can tell me how to change the checkbox next to my nickname from yellow-blakitny to Kumach with a hammer and sickle with a star?)
        2. Sensible people for unification, someone for friendship, someone indifferent amoeba, preoccupied with the pursuit of banknotes, the enemies of the people persecute the demon.
        3, I love Ukraine and my Motherland from Kaliningrad and Vladivostok to Kushka and the North Pole. I love - what's wrong with me?
        1. vasev
          vasev 25 October 2012 16: 25
          +1
          1. I was born in Belarus, grew up in the Far East, I live in Kiev, Russian by nationality, I am a citizen of the USSR (AAA Who can tell me how to change the checkbox next to my nickname from yellow-blakitny to Kumach with a hammer and sickle with a star?)


          It is necessary to post from the USSR server, then the flag will change automatically.
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 25 October 2012 17: 26
            0
            Our server is busy with strategic tasks right now.
    3. Chaplain
      Chaplain 25 October 2012 11: 29
      +3
      They tormented the same question, separated well, (although in my opinion it was in vain) they began to cultivate patriotism - very well. The only trouble is that almost all the former republics elevate their patriotism to the rank of fascism and Russophobia in relation to Russians, in their extreme form often leading to bloodshed.
      Ukraine as a state and Ukrainians as a people, and as neighbors quite suit me.
      It would be easier with nationalism (in Ukraine), maybe even moved to permanent residence. wink
      1. vasev
        vasev 25 October 2012 12: 13
        +6
        It would be easier with nationalism (in Ukraine), maybe even moved to permanent residence.


        So in Ukraine there are fewer problems with nationalism than in Russia. The mono-Slavic state because.
        We have the hottest nationalist fights in Rada or along Zomboyaschik.
        There was one example, when a pro-Russian-minded member of the forum "scored an arrow" at a meeting with "Svobodovtsy" (natsyuki) in order to sort things out ... But this is an extreme case of idiocy on both sides. I often visit Lviv, I speak Russian, until I was beaten. On a couple of cafes I saw advertisements: "We serve only in Ukrainian", but that was right after the adoption of the Law on Regional Languages, emotions were still hot, especially if you constantly watch the Box ...
        In general, I want to say that in Ukraine I personally (Russian) do not experience ethnic problems.
        1. FREGATENKAPITAN
          FREGATENKAPITAN 25 October 2012 13: 18
          +2
          Not as an opposition, but as a reminder ...-
          In Crimea, is there not a burning problem with the Crimean Tatars, with the seizure of land, etc.

          So that everyone has enough problems with nationalism ....... and you don’t have any problems until it touched you directly
      2. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 25 October 2012 16: 20
        +6
        Welcome, it's cool!
        but as always they exaggerate about nationalism, when I moved to Ukraine from Khabarovsk on the central channel I saw a report that at Khreschatyk, in the underpass, they might stop you and ask how the Ukrainian pioneer tie is in Ukrainian and if they don’t know, they’ll beat angry .
        Arriving in Kiev, immediately by subway and to the center, well, I think where are you banderlogs?
        Have not found laughing .
        Now about the same, well, Banderlog arrived in Kiev, marched with clenched fists and teeth, shouting "Ukraine for the Ukrainians", the people of Kiev in their mass looked at these idiots going to work and study, well, after banderlog to the train and to your place - Portuguese toilets are not waiting!
      3. kostiknet
        kostiknet 29 October 2012 16: 42
        0
        Well, why do some individuals have a love for the homeland (anyway, what kind) coexists with hatred for Russia? And weakly SIMPLY TO LOVE YOUR COUNTRY, not spitting on the near and distant neighbors with hysterical saliva? (This does not apply to Amers - they are ur0dy, they can)
    4. biglow
      biglow 25 October 2012 12: 06
      +1
      Sirozha,
      Because people like you profess fascist principles, and your heroes executioners of their people and all those who disagree with them mercilessly destroyed. Then Stalin felt sorry for them, now the little ones climbed out hoping to take revenge.
      Normal people cannot agree with this, and we will never consider traitors and executioners as heroes, and it will be better to be friends with you, looking through the optical sight and the dividing line
      1. vasev
        vasev 25 October 2012 12: 36
        -2
        In vain he ran into him. In his post there was not a single bad word about Russia. And his opinion is very correct and true for a citizen of ANY country.

        And if you "sausage" from the fact that someone dares not to walk and have your own opinion, then you, comrade, to a psychotherapist ...
        1. biglow
          biglow 25 October 2012 13: 02
          +3
          vasev,
          I don’t like Bendera and their accomplices as well as their ideology. And I lived in Western Ukraine for about 2 years and I know these people well and what I think about others I heard. I lived there in the early 90's
          1. vasev
            vasev 25 October 2012 13: 13
            +1
            He lived there in the early 90s


            So this is 20 years ago, the heyday of independent thoughts, what did you want. Now it’s calmer there.
            1. biglow
              biglow 25 October 2012 14: 12
              +1
              vasev,
              judging by May 9 and tyagnibok with its fascist marches nothing has changed but it only got worse
              1. vasev
                vasev 25 October 2012 14: 24
                0
                I'm begging you ... But if you judge by gameparades, then in the west we’re just ... laughing
                There is always a small number of ultra-nationalist-minded people. Or maybe you want to ban at all any opinions that do not coincide with the party line? smile
    5. tan0472
      tan0472 25 October 2012 12: 23
      +4
      Quote: Sirozha
      Guys, why is love for Ukraine, as an independent state, a nationalism, an undeveloped Bandera, self-sufficient, and with a huge share of negativity, but love for Russia is already patriotism!

      And this is you, my dear, you will understand when, for example, the Odessa region will secede. And some Odessa citizen will ask you - "Why is love for Odessa (with its great and ancient history) bad, but love for Ukraine is good?"
      1. vasev
        vasev 25 October 2012 12: 38
        0
        And this is you, my dear, you will understand when, for example, the Odessa region will secede. And some Odessa citizen will ask you - "Why is love for Odessa (with its great and ancient history) bad, but love for Ukraine is good?"


        But did Ukraine separate from the USSR, and not from Russia ... or do you subconsciously consider Ukraine as your territory?
        1. tan0472
          tan0472 25 October 2012 13: 10
          +7
          Quote: vasev
          But did Ukraine separate from the USSR, and not from Russia ... or do you subconsciously consider Ukraine as your territory?

          I think that now it is a different territory (21 years). And before that, it was a single territory (thousands of years, with short interruptions)
          I believe that Russia is not an older brother (the right hand cannot be older than the left), but due to historical circumstances, a stronger brother (like the right hand is stronger than the left (for right-handed people)).
          I believe that you need to live together (and not only because it is so profitable), but because the left hand should not live separately from the right. A phrase But Ukraine was separated from the USSR, and not from Russia ... sounds to me like a phrase - but the left hand is separated from the whole body, and not from the right hand.
          It is sad if the left hand begins to understand something only when her fingers begin to separate from it.
          1. vasev
            vasev 25 October 2012 13: 20
            0
            Quote: tan0472
            I believe that now it is a different territory (21 years). And before that, it was a single territory (for thousands of years, with short interruptions). I believe that Russia is not an older brother (the right hand cannot be older than the left), but due to historical circumstances, a stronger brother (like the right hand is stronger than the left (for right-handed) ) I believe that you need to live together (and not only because it is so profitable), but because the left hand should not live separately from the right. But the phrase But Ukraine was separated from the USSR, and not from Russia ... it sounds to me like - but the left hand is separated from the whole body, and not from the right hand.


            Absolutely correct view of things, my opinion is the same that it was impossible to destroy the USSR. But it is not worth kicking Ukraine alone ... The "right hand" of the RSFSR was the first to separate, and then all the other organs fell ...
            1. tan0472
              tan0472 25 October 2012 13: 40
              +2
              Quote: vasev
              The "right hand" of the RSFSR was the first to secede, and then all other organs fell down.

              You are not quite right. In other parts of the USSR there were also centrifugal currents.
              For example, while vacationing in Moldova in 1985, my mother heard from the Ukrainians the phrase - "Ukraine feeds other republics."
              The main culprit behind the collapse of the USSR, I consider the Soviet government, which for decades weaned the people to make independent decisions - "What they say" from above, we do it. " And when the three oddities broke up the union and it was time to take to the streets and say NO - everyone sat at home, expecting that the "top" would sort out "this mess."
              1. vasev
                vasev 25 October 2012 14: 09
                +2
                Well, besides the people, the USSR also had an army, which never defended the USSR (since there was no order wink ) The omnipotent KGB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs were, who also stayed too long ... Ie those who were supposed to defend the country stayed in the bushes, and the people were to blame ...
                1. SASCHAmIXEEW
                  SASCHAmIXEEW 25 October 2012 18: 18
                  0
                  The army didn’t have anything to do with it, but there was a GB in the shares, they also transported loot to foreign banks, bought firms on front banks, etc. Of course, not everything is clear, but the top was covered up, it was not for nothing that the hunchback got to the top, and I think our children , they will still judge these traitors and the moratorium will be lifted for this case and they will deal with the Duma for their anti-Russian laws! And in general there will be happiness in Russia!
            2. SASCHAmIXEEW
              SASCHAmIXEEW 25 October 2012 18: 06
              +1
              Dear! It was not we who separated, but each in his own destiny wanted to become a king, all this shobla-fucking, headed by EBNshka, fled to their huts and began to share the good that they had inherited. They didn’t think about the people and don’t think, for them the main thing is "THEY" and we live, as well as with komunyaki nothing has changed, only a little bit of instruments and that's it! And as the lawlessness of the cops was, it remained, as the bosses steal and they steal, only this is now called a business! And the people were pressed and pressed, and in the near future it is unlikely that anything will change!
        2. FREGATENKAPITAN
          FREGATENKAPITAN 25 October 2012 13: 28
          +7
          ............. or do you subconsciously consider Ukraine as your territory?........... I will answer you ............ And you, what do you think Crimea and Novorossiya Ukrainian?
          Here's a question for you and the answer .......... Well, not Odessa, so hold a referendum in Crimea ............... guess the result?

          So there is no need for Russians and Ukrainians to artificially separate themselves, ......................... as if someone wouldn’t want to, ....... ... Now you can’t return anything to the original, but if we are not just one people (which is deeply doubtful), then, in any case, siblings ..........
          1. vasev
            vasev 25 October 2012 14: 12
            -2
            .And you, what do you think Crimea and Novorossia Ukrainian?


            I consider all these territories to be Slavic, therefore it is not necessary to juggle with words, but:
            At the moment, these are Ukrainian territories, because they are part of the state of Ukraine and Ukrainian legislation is in force in these territories.
            1. sprut
              sprut 25 October 2012 17: 09
              +1
              NO! Ukraine is a part of Russia. Temporarily Independent. But sooner or later the truth will triumph.
              1. sas
                sas 25 October 2012 17: 51
                -3
                Already triumphing from the 91st
                1. Alexander Petrovich
                  Alexander Petrovich 25 October 2012 21: 57
                  +1
                  That is not true, then a lie)
                  1. sprut
                    sprut 26 October 2012 08: 26
                    +1
                    Lies are disunity and degradation, truth is integration into one Russian state!
                2. sprut
                  sprut 26 October 2012 08: 25
                  0
                  Nothing, nothing, Little Russia or Ukraine was somehow not controlled for several centuries, but everything is back to square one!
              2. Kail_seven
                Kail_seven 28 October 2012 21: 35
                +1
                Ukraine, like Russia and Belarus, are three parts of RUSI. As long as we treat the inhabitants of the state of Ukraine or Belarus as younger weak brothers, and in general we share one Russian people, giving it three different names, there can be no talk of reuniting Russia, even if it’s just some kind of union, not to mention a single state. IMHO
          2. sas
            sas 25 October 2012 17: 51
            -3
            And do you think KOSOVO is the original Albanian land? There it is.
            1. sprut
              sprut 26 October 2012 08: 32
              +2
              Kosovo is an artificially created problem in order to once again prick Russia, Eastern Slavs and Orthodoxy ... It's so simple!
    6. 1946095andrey
      1946095andrey 25 October 2012 14: 57
      +5
      Quote: Sirozha
      Guys, why is love for Ukraine, as an independent state, a nationalism, an undeveloped Bandera, self-sufficient, and with a huge share of negativity, but love for Russia is already patriotism!
      Why don’t you sleep since we separated? .. We like to be independent, we like our language (if someone cuts my Russian ear, I can switch to Ukrainian, but then some figures say that they don’t understand him , therefore, I’ll continue in Russian), even though the authorities have mu ... ki who don’t know where to go and whose ass to kiss ... Stop driving us, we want to be friends and cooperate with you, only the gawks in power need to be changed, but people are not against you!


      It's a shame that I grew up learning a story invented by someone for my own purposes, it’s just bad for me ... I’m finite against SELF-UKRAINE I love the USSR, it was a country which was respected, and Ukraine is respected by a puppet and that's all (((((((((( (((((((((((((((((((((
      1. SASCHAmIXEEW
        SASCHAmIXEEW 25 October 2012 18: 39
        +2
        I was born in the USSR and for me it is the Motherland and Ukraine and Komi and Kazakhstan, all this was the Motherland, but what now? 40 years in a single state and suddenly the ghouls took and drove a wedge and we are no one calling us. Do you even understand what these ki did to us !? Allegedly, freedom and democracy! Nowhere is there freedom or democracy on us put shackles abruptly than the party committee and the town combined + GB. Complete lack of rights in front of money. Kamunyak even had the appearance of justice, but what now?
  14. Larus
    Larus 25 October 2012 10: 57
    +3
    Here, even without the film, it is clear that this (Ukrainian) is all artificially created primarily by our enemies. Over the centuries, shit-mongers came to our "guests" who wanted to teach us how to live correctly and they did not always immediately shove it off, so the Russian people remained somehow time is occupied. Hence the insignificant differences in language. Here and now from the West, first of all, there is a flirtation with the so-called. Okrainskaya "elite" so that they would steer at home and away from the people.
  15. Lustrator
    Lustrator 25 October 2012 11: 00
    +4
    The most interesting thing is that such authors cannot solve any of the real problems of a particular society, like most representatives of the authorities. They only know how to add fuel to the fire - that's why they live. There is no sense in such screamers, no matter how nonsense - separatist or "independent" - they would not carry. Remember: if they tear their navels in the field of national confusion, then they know why (well, they are not trying for everyone)

    Historical metamorphosis is one of the management methods. This applies to ALL countries. Only the methods of presenting the "material" change.

    In my opinion, it is not particularly important how individual branches have coexisted over the centuries (it is precisely the political goals of propaganda that play a greater role here), but the fact that everyone has one root, and not one clown can not rewrite this.
    1. Bandera
      Bandera 25 October 2012 12: 41
      +5
      I fully support.
      In Ukrainian, much has remained of what the Russian lost with the advent of Peter the Great and a galaxy of the following emperors. The names of the months in Russian were replaced by Latin correspondences, a lot of Germanisms were introduced. This was noted by Mikhail Zadornov in his speech, which I was lucky to visit.
      The Golden Horde had a great influence on Russia. State symbols, methods of government, individual words and even the mentality were transferred to the Moscow Principality.
      Therefore, when Russia, as the successor of Russia, returned to the vastness of modern Ukraine, it met here with a not always warm welcome.

      And the Ukraine project will live until a symbiosis (cohabitation) of a united Russia is created, with a return to its roots. Without Germanism, Latinism, polonism, with a new ideology. Without older and younger. Without, excuse me, Russian pomp and Ukrainian inferiority (less shamefulness). Without imperial ideology, when my Russian (Russian) brother also tries to learn the language of his great-grandfathers. When it finds a common beginning, not a sowed hostility.
      1. 11Goor11
        11Goor11 25 October 2012 19: 42
        0
        Bandera
        And the Ukraine project will live until a symbiosis (cohabitation) of a united Russia is created, with a return to its roots. Without Germanism, Latinism, polonism, with a new ideology.

        That is, you want to change Russian. Some Russians require Ukrainians to change themselves. This is not a constructive approach. This is not real at all.
        The whole problem is that a border has run across our lands, and even now, with all our "differences" that some people think are "irreconcilable", we can safely visit relatives who have remained on different sides of the border, and no special problems arise ...
        Imagine a situation: some German (whose grandfather came here with a weapon) comes to live and work in western Ukraine, will they reproach him for being German? Will the same German move to Kiev, will he have problems as a bearer of an "alien" culture? And if to Moscow, that there he will be terribly not welcome? I think in reality there will be no, no, no problems. So it is with any Russian and Ukrainian.
        All these far-fetched problems are deliberately emphasized by those who benefit from such a division of our territories (some oligarchs and the same US State Department), and some ordinary people who were carried away by the "high" idea - to defend the oligarchs' feeding trough. Who will have to part with it if the border disappears, and the United States has a more serious adversary, which they really do not want, their dream is for us to continue butting.
      2. Drednout
        Drednout 26 October 2012 00: 37
        0
        Quote: Bandera
        The Golden Horde had a great influence on Russia. State symbols, methods of government, individual words and even the mentality were transferred to the Moscow Principality.

        Well, she also had influence in the Caucasus, only the Slavs did not convert to Islam. And the symbols - so the eagle passed from Byzantium, the tricolor from the Netherlands began to hang on merchant ships (I mean white-blue-red). The flag of Ukraine in fact also from the west (under the Swede, Mazepa was drawn).
        With the last paragraph I agree to all 100.!
        There is no natural prowess in bombast and show-off.
        Kiev is the ancient center of the Eastern Slavs and Orthodoxy, and I have nothing against it if this beautiful city becomes the capital of the symbiosis you mentioned. Save it for this.
  16. Ascetic
    Ascetic 25 October 2012 11: 21
    14
    Ukraine, especially in their extreme, extremist, "Svidomo" manifestations, always had a foreign guardian who cherished, educated and directed him. Due to its artificiality, non-independence and non-viability, Ukrainians have always been an instrument in the wrong hands. First, the "Svidomo" took advantage of the Poles, then the Austrians, then the Germans, and now they are obedient puppets of the Americans. With paranoid persistence proving the unprovable - his "non-Russianness", those who reproach are doomed to be eternal enemies of all Russian in general, and Russia in particular. From this it follows that in the face of Russian power, Ukrainians will forever seek the most powerful enemies of Russia as their patrons. And that means that as long as Ukraine exists, it will with suicidal eagerness confront everything Russian, choosing as its main priority a continuous, total clash with Russia.
    Svidomo made hostages of the interests of others of those whom they called "Ukrainians" at first in the territory of Galicia, and now throughout Ukraine -Malorossiya
    Western strategists have always seen in Ukraine a kind of “torpedo”, with the help of which, they hoped, if not to sink, then significantly damage the giant ship of the Russian World.
    “Ukrainians” and “Ukraine” were created by Poles, Austrians and Germans from Russians of Western Russia only to use them in their geopolitical game against Russia. If there was no need to divide Russia into pieces, tear the Russian people into pieces, the Western project Ukraina would never have arisen.
    In the West itself, “Ukraine” has always been treated as something non-independent, as a tool, as something completely devoid of any subjectivity. Even Western policy regarding “Ukraine”, both in the last century and now, was not an independent direction, but was an element of the big game against Russia.
    This feature of Ukrainians turned Western Russia into a hostage of national interests, first of all by the European powers, and then also by the USA. That's why until as long as the Ukraina project exists, we will all be in a state of continuous confrontation that threatens us with death in the name of the interests of the West.

    1. biglow
      biglow 25 October 2012 14: 17
      +3
      Ascetic,
      excellent video without any equivocation. It's time to finish this project
    2. WW3
      WW3 25 October 2012 14: 39
      +4
      M. Leontyev rode hard on this "project", neither add nor subtract, only plus!
      Already now Ukraine in the international aspect is more objectThan subject.
    3. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 25 October 2012 16: 24
      +3

      Ascetic
      let me subscribe!
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 25 October 2012 23: 43
        +1
        Quote: Karlsonn
        let me subscribe!


        One generation will hurt our generation brought up in the USSR and our children will fight,
        divided up by traitors in 1991 and born in different countries .. I have a son-in-law .. recently gave the captain serves in the Strategic Missile Forces, a relative in Dnepropetrovsk ..
        During our lives, we need to finish this shit with plainness ... And who will blather .. like the 50s .. the Beria’s NKVD .. sorry for the remnants left a lot .. climbed out of caches
  17. viruskvartirus
    viruskvartirus 25 October 2012 11: 24
    +4
    Here you have nothing to do ... people have simpler problems, for example, they predict that winter will be the coldest in the last 10 years, and NERC has increased electricity tariffs by 41,04-53,76 kopecks / kWh to 95,8 kopecks. / kWh for population consuming more than 800 kWh. Thus, for this group of urban population, the tariff increased by 75%, and for the rural population - by 89%. Owners of private houses with electric boilers out. Or here's the news Lawyer Tymoshenko took $ 5 million "for the opposition." The elections are just around the corner, and there is no one to vote for, just no one.
    1. CARBON
      CARBON 25 October 2012 14: 11
      +3
      I will support, yesterday I was at the market with my wife and went shopping. Everything started to rise in price little by little, the hryvnia. With electricity, this is generally the end of the intestine is complete. About the elections I can quote S. Shnurov: "Elections, elections, candidates are gay!"
      1. 11Goor11
        11Goor11 25 October 2012 19: 49
        +1
        Clumsy, politically correct for that? laughing
  18. leon-iv
    leon-iv 25 October 2012 11: 25
    -1
    Therefore, in support of the reunification of Ukraine and Russia, yesterday you are well fucked by your wife.
    1. viruskvartirus
      viruskvartirus 25 October 2012 11: 54
      +1
      And I have Russian laughing
  19. cucun
    cucun 25 October 2012 11: 29
    +8
    The Russian and Ukrainian peoples are brothers forever.
    Everything else is political abomination.
    1. NAV-STAR
      NAV-STAR 25 October 2012 12: 26
      0
      We are one people living in different states. I don’t understand how to relate blood relatives to different nations.
      Errors of the 90s need to be fixed.
    2. saruman
      saruman 25 October 2012 14: 00
      +4
      Quote: cucun
      The Russian and Ukrainian peoples are brothers forever.


      Reminds: "Russian and Chinese are brothers forever".
      There is one imperial people - RUSSIAN. Ukrainians, Cossacks, Siberians, Pomors, Kamchadals, etc. - these are the Russian names of the falcons. Russians are more than ethnos and nationality.
      The Russians - is it interesting who?
      1. SASCHAmIXEEW
        SASCHAmIXEEW 25 October 2012 18: 49
        0
        The Russians are drunk nonsense at a ... traitor whom history will condemn!
    3. A. Yaga
      A. Yaga 26 October 2012 01: 45
      +1
      How can you be a brother to yourself?
      We are not brothers. We are one people.
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 26 October 2012 01: 52
        0
        And the Lord said to Cain: Where is Abel thy brother? And Cain answered: I do not know, am I my brother's keeper?
      2. cucun
        cucun 26 October 2012 10: 52
        0
        I agree, of course ... :)
    4. sprut
      sprut 26 October 2012 08: 33
      0
      It’s more likely even twins!
  20. Lustrator
    Lustrator 25 October 2012 11: 32
    0
    Quote: omsbon
    Who is this self-employed man talking to?

    Quote: klimpopov
    Why can this claudia not be switched to Russian but I don’t?

    You, dear, low-quality trolls.
    If necessary, I will translate it to you, but I strongly doubt that you will read my translation until the moment when you decide to throw excrement back into everything that does not fit into your sphere of comfort.

    I am sorry for this resource, allowing a similar attitude.
    Shout in the comments about the Motherland, most often you don't really do anything for your people. And no matter how many "enemy" states surround you - start with yourself, help your neighbors. And it really turns out like this: "Homeland is where the ass is warm", no? Regardless of "nationality", the concept of which, by the way, is formed precisely by education. Nobody is born with the awareness of their own nationality.

    P.S. Probably another bead in front of pigs. It is very difficult to achieve an understanding of what is more important than national standards for each - more important priorities - family, home, children, work. It’s easier to throw and put it under the same bar - it’s easier than anyone to understand.
    1. sq
      sq 25 October 2012 12: 19
      +4
      Few of these trolls do this in their inveterate trollity, most just have the remnants of a sort of Great Russian great-power rudeness, disrespect for others, it does not matter to the Belarusians, Ukrainians or Russians living outside the MKAD. And the falsification of history began with the writing of chronicles, then the destruction of chronicles and entire archives (an example is the destruction of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania during the capture of Polotsk by the troops of Ivan the Terrible, as well as during the time of Quietest, Catherine 2 and before the collapse of the Union).
      There is no ultimate truth on earth; each has its own truth.
      And if you want to be respected, respect others.
    2. harrymur
      harrymur 25 October 2012 18: 42
      0
      I support, the resource provides a platform for a separate category of cattle-trolls with a clearly Nazi orientation, for me, a resource with a daily visit of 60k needs to somehow resolve this issue,
      I don’t see anything good about providing a platform for Natsik from Raska, on the contrary, it makes us Russians in the eyes of Ukrainians,
      by the way, six months ago, the network rating of "damned NATO members" classified our resource as "not recommended for visiting"
      as Vova of patriots recently said, smart and educated people should educate
      my only wish is, do not harm, do not give a platform to "pits and Bandera", everything is very subtle !!!! it takes a lot more time
  21. Wertynskiy
    Wertynskiy 25 October 2012 11: 32
    +1
    I will not be original and will repeat for the hundredth time!
    Brothers Okraintsy, come to us, before the EMPIRE !!!
    How else?
  22. sas
    sas 25 October 2012 11: 38
    -7
    Oh, and Russia should keep silent about the mythologization of history.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 25 October 2012 13: 06
      -1
      The history of Russia was written by the Germans, so we Russians have nothing to be ashamed of, a false story in the furnace.
      1. FREGATENKAPITAN
        FREGATENKAPITAN 25 October 2012 13: 12
        +1
        Partly there is some truth in your words ....... but only partly ..
        The great Lomonosov devoted his life to the study of the true history of Russia and the struggle against the German view of it ............ then, of course, there was dominance in the German Academy of Sciences!
  23. DeamonFIre
    DeamonFIre 25 October 2012 11: 56
    +1
    Articles are very upsetting ... In my opinion, their goal is only to further embroil our peoples. And frank delirium, also custom-made.
  24. Lustrator
    Lustrator 25 October 2012 12: 03
    -1
    Yeah, that means, according to M. Leontyev, Ukraine is a cancerous tumor that parasitizes on the powerful and all-sustaining organism of the Motherland ...
    According to him, the Ukrainian political "elite" (ha-ha, flattered them all) is holding back the state from the final agony.
    And then the Russian Federation is a monolithic problem-free state? You have enough of your separatists, from whom only waste and problems are, only to oppose their convictions (and activities) to the "single" people of the "empire" (c) there is absolutely nothing, besides bayonets or carrots. They do not understand the common brotherly desire to make themselves happy.

    It's just that our princes and your princes cannot agree, hence the conflict in politics, and geopolitical blasphemy (forgive me for being rude, this is exactly the case in Ukraine, alas). And they will never agree - none of the imperious thief will give up power voluntarily, even for the good of such a beloved people. Therefore, no amount of "reunification" will solve absolutely any problems by simply adding new ones.

    And it’s very good that in Russia there is a strong top holding for eggs the whole political farce that is trying to destroy the "empire" and snatch a fatter piece is in check (in a strong state, an attempt to snatch away the coveted one can be tough).

    I turn to the part of the site’s visitors who consider Ukraine to be the enemy of Russia (or its cancer): the morning enemies of society are much more dangerous than the external ones, as they are often simply not visible.
    If you want to prove your love for the Motherland and native people - start small, put things in order in your head and do not give in to provocation of people to whom your anger and fear are beneficial! Help each other and prove that you are one people who are able to cast their voices. It is impossible to love a country that makes you cancer, and people who are ready to gnaw each other's throats because of sheer trifles.
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 25 October 2012 12: 38
      12
      Quote: Lustrator
      It is impossible to love a country that makes you cancer, and people who are ready to gnaw each other's throats because of sheer trifles.


      The world cannot be created according to the order, by order, by decree, by the allocation of budget financing. The world is created by people, creators, and, most importantly, time. There is no Ukrainian World - this is a vacuum, and talking about it is just empty fantasies. Again, Ukrainians will be insulted to the core by my words, but I am very sorry that they cannot understand the simple thing - the Ukrainian World has no real content, everything that they try to squeeze into it does not find a response from the people themselves, particles of the alleged Ukrainian Of the world. You can call the roadside cafe "Versailles", hang cheap reproductions of paintings on the walls, but Versailles will not be there, as there will be no kings. This is just an imitation that looks ridiculous and vulgar. Is it really not clear that Ukrainians, no matter how they would like and whoever they consider themselves to be, are still part of the Russian World
      in Ukraine they prefer to see the “hand of Moscow”, but not historical reality. The point here is not the manic stupidity of the Ukrainians who do not know what they are doing and do not understand what their efforts are leading to, but that The Ukraine project was invented in the West, and the meaning of its existence is to split the Russian World and weaken Russia. “Ukraine” is a Western project, anti-Russian, directed against the Orthodox civilization. We can hide anything about love for Ukraine, respect for the national feelings of Ukrainians, behind the fig leaflets, but we must understand the essence of the project. The main thing that Ukrainians themselves should know is not their project, they are a tool and a consumable in a strange game. In turn, the Russians, the Russians, need to understand one simple thing that There is a difference between the Ukraine project and ordinary Ukrainians, their language and their culture. It’s not the name, but the essence. Ukraine is part of the vast Russian World, exactly the same part as the Russian North, Siberia, the Far East and the Kuban. . They cannot be excluded from there by the decision of a political bureau, as from a party. Russian language, Russian culture is the native language and native culture for Ukrainians.
      Is it true that two decades of worshiping the West, following all his advice did not prove that you should not expect anything good and good from him?
      Migrant workers go to Kiev not from Moscow, but vice versa. Not Putin travels around the world with outstretched hands in search of loans, but Kiev rulers. Alas, the point is not oil at all, after all, for a very long time Ukraine had the cheapest energy sources in the world (from Russia), but this did not save it.
      1. tambu
        tambu 26 October 2012 03: 11
        +1
        that is, you divide all of us into "the project is evil" and "simple ukrantsev - brothers", who have their own (Russian) language and their own (Russian) culture ... the first must be understood by the Ukrainians and the second by the Russians, .. the project was created by the West and Ukrainian brothers are guest workers .... and they are all both evil and brothers - hard workers are part of a single Russian world ... I understand you correctly?

        If it’s easier for me to express my thoughts in Russian, this does not mean that my native language is Russian ... I like the Ukrainian language ... I like to speak it, it is a beautiful language and I live in a beautiful country, I feel pride when I play the anthem of my country .... these are all the particles that I absorbed ... it's like fear of the police ... animal instinct developed over the years, and abroad the police look at you as hunted with sympathy .... it's the same part of mine far from an ideal country - it’s impossible to pull it out of me ... not to convince ... and I still found Scoop, and now imagine the youth who did not see it ... it’s too late to say that it is part of Russia and with its essays You certainly do not predispose them to the idea of ​​unification ... then what is the information load of your statement?

        Two simple questions ... right?
    2. FREGATENKAPITAN
      FREGATENKAPITAN 26 October 2012 13: 34
      0
      It is impossible to love a country that makes you cancer, and people who are ready to gnaw each other's throats because of sheer trifles..................
      A CONCEPT OF THE COUNTRY AND THE STATE TOTALLY DIFFERENT ......
  25. Ivan
    Ivan 25 October 2012 12: 35
    +1
    The administration considers it necessary to ban those who write in Ukrainian, I did not insult anyone and did not get personal, before this ban I had a restriction on comments, and now they deleted my posts, my opinion and just decided to ban, that's how Ukrainians are treated like that , and the article is custom-made, otherwise I would not be banned because of it. As I write - a new acc, which will soon be banned, proks. PARROT
    1. vasev
      vasev 25 October 2012 12: 48
      -1
      You knew what you were going for.
      Or do you expect justice? Justice ended with the USSR.
      Any articles are custom. Authors necessarily put some message into them. Maybe your views do not correspond to the anti-Ukrainian views of Russia at present, maybe it is written in the rules to write only in Russian, maybe your karma is like that ...
  26. Allegedly
    Allegedly 25 October 2012 12: 44
    +4
    I personally do not see any problem, most likely you have been warned at least several times, so there will be a fair wind in your back. It would be fun if the Israeli forum users wrote in Hebrew here, and others, for example, your humble servant, in German. Can we just make sense?
    1. Ivan
      Ivan 25 October 2012 12: 48
      0
      And they didn’t warn me, there were a couple of times for warning mats, but it was a couple of times and for a long time. So that you knew this was a parody of our prime minister and the fact that on the photoshop billboard is his pronunciation of Ukrainian words, and not the language itself, me yours ignorance is not a troll at all. PARROT
      1. Allegedly
        Allegedly 25 October 2012 13: 09
        +2
        Dear Ivan, have you been warned repeatedly for obscene words (maybe only for him, who knows), maybe the administrators didn’t like some Ukrainian word, or it seemed not quite cultural? Or maybe it just became the last straw in their chalice of patience? Behave decently, and you will be happy. I am sure that for example in Lviv there are similar sites to this one. And I do not think that my comments in Russian will be welcomed there. Maybe you just messed up the site (or rams? wink )? Do you want me to look for you Ukrainian-language sites like this?

        PS What’s on the billboard, your prime minister said, what’s the problem? Nobody slanders or invents anything, you can, then you can. winked
    2. sprut
      sprut 25 October 2012 17: 12
      0
      There is no Ukrainian language, this is a distorted dialect of the South Russian language, while Ukraine, as now, was separated from the main part of the country ...
  27. WW3
    WW3 25 October 2012 12: 56
    +7
    Ukraine is assembled in pieces. Galicians have a different mentality than in the rest of Ukraine and emphasis. Khrushchev gave Crimea to Ukraine in 1953. It is a pity, of course, that the USSR collapsed, the industry of Russia and Ukraine was integrated into an integrated complex, especially the military-industrial complex and space.
  28. Lustrator
    Lustrator 25 October 2012 13: 03
    +2
    Quote: JACOB
    It would be fun if the Israeli forum users wrote in Hebrew here, and others, for example, your humble servant, in German. Can we just make sense?

    The meaning was that the languages ​​of the Slavic peoples are largely similar precisely by the principle of neighborly borrowing. If they came from the same root, as many believe, borrowing and similarity would also be precisely the root nature (frame).

    Strange, but I don't notice articles like "Project Belarus" or "Project Poland", for example. But these lands, according to the prevailing theory, also "split off" in due time. But the Poles are a more pro-Western "project" (c), but, in your opinion, the more troubles come from the Ukrainians.
    Quote: WW3
    Ukraine is assembled in pieces. Galicians have a different mentality than in the rest of Ukraine and the emphasis

    I wonder why this would be?
    Oh yes, because other peoples live in the neighborhood than in the east, and mixing with them leads to a change in language and culture, and as a result, in the "mentality" as you put it. Therefore, the population varies in different regions, because its foundations and way of life are formed depending on local conditions. In the Russian Federation, not also? So what is the argument about? A nation can be monolithic only under artificial conditions, sometimes too harsh (a vivid example is Project Israel!) The Ukrainian people cannot be the same, and those who try to make it that way or present it differently are ignorant or politicians.

    P.S. Don't confuse Moscow and Russia. Moscow rulers, like those of Kiev, do not care much about the problems of society, or am I wrong? Ours, for example, just sometimes throw a bone and arrange nationwide games like "Elections-20xx" to defuse and pacify the slaves.
    1. WW3
      WW3 25 October 2012 13: 45
      +4
      The problem is that more than half of the country in Ukraine wants to join Russia, and the rest, in particular the Galicians, want to go to Europe, but only Europe does not really need them. And the Galicians, too, actually Russia is not needed.
  29. Lustrator
    Lustrator 25 October 2012 13: 27
    +1
    Quote: WW3
    Ukraine is collected in pieces

    RF is not the same? There are even more regional entities, and they differ even more.
    They tried to bring them to a "general appearance" during the Soviet era, and huge resources were spent not at all for aesthetic pleasure. All the same management theory: it is easier and cheaper to manage a homogeneous mass of people than to adapt to the regions. Only the advice methods did not include frivolous forum trolling, but were much tougher.
    1. WW3
      WW3 25 October 2012 13: 52
      +1
      The article is about Ukraine itself.
  30. Setrac
    Setrac 25 October 2012 13: 53
    0
    A piece of Ukraine or Russia, a myth of Western propaganda, archeology shows that the Slavs (people wearing Slavic genes) have lived on the territory from the Atlantic to the Pacific Ocean for millennia. Throughout the well-known history, the Slavs only divide, first Germany was Latinized, then Poland was cotolicized.
  31. vasev
    vasev 25 October 2012 14: 01
    0
    Here we have squeezed the corn on the Moderator on this thread - Komenty rubs, already the whistle flies ... laughing

    Overwrite, don't overwrite ... and people will think sooner or later:
    Who collapsed the USSR?
    Why are Russia and Ukraine bleeding?

    I understand that the article should produce a certain informational stuffing, and the result is not the same ... I'm sorry, but this is life wink
  32. Lustrator
    Lustrator 25 October 2012 14: 48
    +3
    Quote: WW3
    Ukraine is assembled in pieces. Galicians have a different mentality than in the rest of Ukraine and emphasis.

    If I understand you correctly, from the first statement we get the second.
    Quote: WW3
    The article is about Ukraine itself.

    That is why I gave an example from a relatively ethnically heterogeneous RF to show that the regional difference in the cultural characteristics of the population is a natural result of the development of society in the neighborhood with the rest.

    The population of the regions of Ukraine naturally associates their national and political sympathies with the economic characteristics of the sectors of the local national economy: if the industrialized East is more inclined towards the Russian Federation, thanks to the close economic ties of local enterprises, then in Western Ukraine they value the exit method of earning more, because The population has no other choice (even in the Ukrainian SSR, the western regions noticeably lagged behind in the degree of development of production). As they say, who feeds a girl, he dances. Plus, the traditional distrust and nonsense towards the Russians affects it, which has already become more part of the traditional worldview of Western Ukrainians, whose young generations are generously stuffed with exquisite tales of local politicians, who, incidentally, have their own goals and employers.

    Once again I will say: if you want to understand the words and actions of a particular person, follow his motivation. No one does anything just to the detriment of himself. And you should not classify a person as an enemy if you just do not understand the reasons that make him be like that. Your family is much more important than a crowd of abstract alien enemies.
    1. WW3
      WW3 25 October 2012 15: 41
      +3
      Russians are not enemies of Ukrainians, we are Slavs, enemies are only Bendera and "Svidomo" scum of Galician type of the fascist party "Svoboda".
  33. 1946095andrey
    1946095andrey 25 October 2012 14: 53
    0
    fucking fly, I suspected this from school .. but I think that I so much regard Russia as our native))))))))))))))))) we are one ethnic people .. this is all the machinations of those who wanted to share RUSSIA ... and it turned out here Moldova Ukraine Belarus !!!!!
  34. Slevinst
    Slevinst 25 October 2012 14: 54
    0
    Lustrator,
    In Belarus, there is no such people as in Ukraine, with the exception of a small percentage, they believe that our peoples are united, I was there recently, and in Ukraine you’ll understand that they are tearing west and asking for lower gas prices, it’s kind of like with Russia, in general not fish, not meat, although Ukrainians have a good attitude towards everyone with a woman with a pretzel on her head
  35. 1946095andrey
    1946095andrey 25 October 2012 14: 58
    0
    it is necessary to face the truth no matter what it is !!!!!!!!!
  36. Lustrator
    Lustrator 25 October 2012 15: 07
    +4
    Quote: Slevinst
    in Ukraine, horseradish you will understand that they are torn to the west and ask for lower gas prices, it seems like with Russia, in general, not fish is not meat, although Ukrainians treat everyone with a pretzel with a pretzel

    Please specify yours: are they ordinary people, businessmen or those in power? Business is always looking for its own benefits, and if you need to hide behind the population, he will do it.

    Regarding gas prices and domestic politics: the population of Ukraine consumes about 10% of all imported gas, but gas prices are raised just for ordinary people. Do you understand what I mean? If on TV you are shown unscrupulous representatives of Ukrainian business, do not judge everyone at once. This also applies to individuals with a hair pretzel, given her vague biography. And the electorate does not have time to understand all these subtleties, because they are bred by experienced psychologists in the service of politicians.

    A strong Russian Federation is at hand beneficial both to the population of Ukraine and to representatives of the Ukrainian business authorities (if you like, such a term, IMHO, is very truthful). For the former, this is a stabilizing geopolitical factor, for the latter, it is a source of stable income and, in some way, a guarantee of the stability of their position in society.

    Buffer Ukraine is beneficial for the Russian Federation, but Moscow does not intend to solve its problems, therefore, the Russian government cannot have any interest in integration. And a business gets its income anyway.

    As for all NATO and the European Union, there is a separate song and a separate policy. No matter how soon we all began to pay for the solution of their democratic problems.
  37. Slevinst
    Slevinst 25 October 2012 15: 20
    0
    Lustrator,
    you say correctly, with regard to the specifics, it’s clear who I mean, the people choose power, if they allow it to do it, the authorities do their business either for the people or for themselves, it depends on those in power, as for the buffer zone, I completely agree, but again but they wouldn’t separate, right now it would be at the level of Russia and Russia it’s also not profitable for you to help because it’s not clear with whom you are with the West or with us, or you alone or with Russia if you initially lose more than you gain with Russia but I think then you’ll make it up, if it’s hard to say something with the West, most likely you will also be used as a buffer zone against Russia, and it’s unlikely that someone will help you later, as history shows, the Russians don’t leave their
    1. vasev
      vasev 25 October 2012 15: 34
      0
      as history shows, Russians do not abandon their


      You say that to Russians cut out in Chechnya or driven out of Central Asia and Kazakhstan ... There is no need for empty bragging.
      1. xan
        xan 25 October 2012 16: 53
        -5
        offer an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth?

        We live many times better than ov, only cretins can’t see it

        There will be no association, this is in the interests of most Russians. Sleep quietly Svidomo, for what if you need beggars.

        Personally, I will never forget the latest travel guide to the Crimea, read in 2000, and this is when there was cheap gas for your Ukraine. You are enemies.
        And you will never be a Russian equal.
        1. vasev
          vasev 25 October 2012 17: 29
          0
          offer an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth?

          In many ways, this allows you to quickly solve the problem.

          We live many times better than ov, only cretins can’t see it

          What is this specifically expressed in? You have all the families provided with housing, you have gasified all the small villages, you have developed infrastructure in all corners of the country, every citizen of your country has a rest every year in sanatoriums and boarding houses, or even abroad, have you won over drunkenness, drug addiction, homelessness? You can specifics.


          There will be no association, this is in the interests of most Russians.

          I did not recognize you, dear Vladimir Vladimirovich ... After all, as I understand it, only the President can sign on behalf of all Russians wink


          Sleep quietly Svidomo, for what if you need beggars.

          Hinting a virtual personality on the Internet for low income is extremely stupid smile


          Personally, I will never forget the latest travel guide to the Crimea, read in 2000, and this is when there was cheap gas for your Ukraine. You are enemies.

          Sorry I did not read this guide ... smile
          And in your understanding, the scheme should work: are cheap gas friends? Do you buy all your friends for gas? laughing

          And you will never be a Russian equal.

          Do you measure skulls? It used to be. Meters finished on the gallows, doesn’t it scare you?
        2. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 25 October 2012 17: 38
          +3
          xan
          Quote: xan
          You are enemies.
          And you will never be a Russian equal.

          tell it to me - Russian, from Kiev, a human cub, like you, was offended by a small one in 2000.
          Quote: xan
          Sleep quietly Svidomo, for what if you need beggars.

          on their own people are not judged.

          Yes, and not you Khan, but rather a boor.
          1. xan
            xan 25 October 2012 22: 27
            -3
            Russian from Kiev, in your post zero information and some emotions like a child
            to the garden
        3. 11Goor11
          11Goor11 25 October 2012 20: 24
          0
          xan
          There will be no association, this is in the interests of most Russians. Sleep quietly Svidomo, for what if you need beggars.

          Hillary Clinton write about this, and if you collect several thousand signatures under your words, she will exclaim her "Wow!"
          She will easily give you a couple of million to spread this idea, but if you take it, you will have to be called a "foreign agent". But for the sake of hysterical, forgive historical justice, a sense of your own greatness and childish resentment, will you make such a sacrifice?
          1. xan
            xan 25 October 2012 22: 35
            0
            Ukraine can only weaken with its whining and claims can
            and Clinton is afraid of intra-Russian unity and self-awareness
            normal Russian with an understanding of Russian civilization will not identify with Ukraine
            "The Russians have no allies besides themselves, and they do not need them, provided that there is internal unity" (Kersnovsky), nothing is said about ov
  38. Slevinst
    Slevinst 25 October 2012 15: 57
    +1
    vasev,
    I’m talking about large scale, Chechnya just didn’t fall on the most successful period in the country, you better remember Ossetia
    1. vasev
      vasev 25 October 2012 16: 19
      0
      as history shows, Russians do not abandon their

      So it was when the word HONOR meant something else ... In modern Russia, Honor is not in honor ...


      I’m talking about a large scale, Chechnya just did not fall on the most successful period in the country,

      That is, the Russians in trouble do not abandon only in a period favorable for the country?

      you better remember ossetia


      Russians in Chechnya are somehow more suited to the term "OWN" than Ossetians in Ossetia, IMHO
  39. dom.lazar
    dom.lazar 25 October 2012 16: 00
    +5
    the article was about myths in Ukrainian history and ended as always ho..hlosrachem
    1. vasev
      vasev 25 October 2012 16: 21
      0
      So far, in the minds of the Russian layman, Ukraine is not one of many countries, but some kind of misunderstanding that does not want to lie under Russia, it will be so.
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 25 October 2012 19: 39
      0
      dom.lazar hi ,
      usual story, we would have come here with a dozen amers, or Estonians at worst, and everything would be more fun wink .
  40. wax
    wax 25 October 2012 16: 24
    +1
    There is no reason to oppose Ukrainians and Russians. Just at the time, Ukrainians moved their capital to Moscow, and began to call themselves Russians out of respect for the aborigines (Ironically, do not hang dogs, put tokmo cons). But they remained brothers: even more than 20 years after independence was elevated to the state level, those remaining in the south treated them with lard and homemade sunflower oil, borsch and dumplings that had moved to the north, and they mastered the production of caramel. And black earth, by the way, was brought to the west by Ukrainian civilizers from the West. Now Ukraine agrees to transfer all black soils free of charge and bloodless to the aforementioned West (do not load Schaub wagons), and together with the farmers (so as not to take them to the West to work on their farms). Guys! You are fucked up. Trying to throw your hard-earned money.
    The story is not quite a corrupt girl, recoup.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 25 October 2012 17: 33
      +1
      Quote: Wax
      But they remained brothers:

      we are one people representing Russian civilization.
  41. Slevinst
    Slevinst 25 October 2012 16: 57
    0
    vasev,
    at that time the government didn’t give a damn about everyone, they threw their own soldiers for slaughter, it turns out useless conversation,
    The story is not quite a corrupt girl, recoup
    correctly noticed, Russia without Ukraine will not be lost, Ukraine without Russia .....? during the Second World War, everyone was one people, apparently another war is needed to unite
    1. vasev
      vasev 25 October 2012 17: 30
      0
      apparently another war is needed to unite


      This is frightening, for I see no other way.
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 25 October 2012 17: 34
      0
      Quote: Slevinst
      apparently another war is needed to unite

      God forbid, it is necessary to solve this problem more rationally.
      1. xan
        xan 25 October 2012 22: 39
        0
        cunningly wise Russian from Kiev, do you propose a banquet at the expense of Russia?
  42. sprut
    sprut 25 October 2012 17: 07
    +2
    And I’ve been trying to explain to everyone for a long time that Ukraine is a part of Russia, which temporarily turned out to be independent.
    1. Voodoo
      Voodoo 25 October 2012 19: 47
      0
      And Tatarstan, the Far East, Kamchatka? Also have always been native Russian ??
      1. sprut
        sprut 26 October 2012 08: 20
        0
        And where are these regions? Here the issue is considered at the expense of Ukraine. And these regions have a completely different history of development and joining Russia.
      2. FREGATENKAPITAN
        FREGATENKAPITAN 26 October 2012 13: 39
        +1
        But what about ............... Russians from ancient times explored Siberia, the Far East .......... settled down, gradually the local tribes either assimilated or recognized their tsar as their priest
        1. sprut
          sprut 26 October 2012 14: 42
          +1
          That's right! The peoples of the Volga region, Siberia and the Far East should be glad that they were so lucky and they were under the Russian tsar. It saved them!
    2. 11Goor11
      11Goor11 25 October 2012 20: 27
      +1
      On a living torn off.
      1. sprut
        sprut 26 October 2012 08: 21
        +1
        On a living torn off ... Very painful, but not fatal ...
  43. Lustrator
    Lustrator 25 October 2012 17: 07
    +4
    Quote: xan
    You are enemies.

    You are your own enemy, if your main hobby is to search for new enemies for yourself.
    Your position cannot be called sound, but it is not for me to diagnose you.
    In Ukraine, too, it is full of home-grown nationalists like you who do not see beyond their nose, because in addition to three villages, they do not visit other places. Only here it’s better from the activities of people like you who don’t get, because there is virtually no activity, except for forum trolling and poop.
    Quote: Slevinst
    In Belarus there is no such as in Ukraine

    In general, Belarusians are great, and I think that Russians and Ukrainians need to be equal to them. There, the authorities really care about the people, and it is immediately clear where the laws work, even when compared with "democratic" Europe.
    Quote: Slevinst
    Russia and Russia are also not profitable for you to help because it is not clear with whom you are with the West or with us, or you alone or with Russia if you initially lose more than you gain with Russia but then I think you will catch up if it is difficult to say something with the West most likely you are also used as a buffer zone against Russia, and it’s unlikely that someone will help you later, as history shows, Russians don’t leave their

    That's the trouble of Ukraine, in the geopolitical sense, both in our time and historically. This is a transit zone of political interests of Europe - Asia. As for relations with the West, I strongly doubt that those who, over the past 500 years, have tried to bury everyone here in the earth, are eager to make us all happy. Our business authorities also understand this, that there is no road to either East or West, so they are trying to win for myself the most favorable conditions, and the people - at an expense.
  44. FunkschNNX
    FunkschNNX 25 October 2012 17: 48
    +2
    Whatever the history of Ukraine, but it is our brotherly people and we need to be closer to each other. If we don’t get along with sibling nations, then how can we even be?
    1. xan
      xan 25 October 2012 22: 44
      +1
      brotherly people, but why so much stink in the direction of Russia?
      don’t you see how they behave at the state level?
      what for me brothers who are going to be friends with me at my expense?
      my brother is tatar
      1. FunkschNNX
        FunkschNNX 26 October 2012 14: 16
        +1
        But is there really little flour ... in the Russian government? Is the Russian government personifies the Russian people? they have the same thing: Ukrainians are one thing, and power is a gang of corrupt officials and oligarchs.
        1. Voodoo
          Voodoo 27 October 2012 11: 21
          0
          Respect, my friend, for understanding ...
  45. rennim
    rennim 25 October 2012 17: 56
    +1
    The whole current history of Ukraine was written by US-fascist agents under the servile silence ... of a dumbfounded people. Even they (Americans and Ukrainian leaders) recognize this.
  46. Slevinst
    Slevinst 25 October 2012 18: 03
    0
    Lustrator,
    Belarus is sorry, the standard of living has lately decreased, the outcasts of Europe are friends of Venezuela, I would like that everything would work out for them, anyway, our three countries complemented each other in Soviet times
  47. Purgen
    Purgen 25 October 2012 18: 51
    0
    I am with these "Ros-Ukr" topics and discussions, as in "Groundhog Day".
    Now catch up "svidomity" type PARROT, Kiev and Co. And they will set the heat)))) With all the "svidomitskoy" frankness and intransigence. Curiously, they haven't pulled up yet. laughing
  48. harrymur
    harrymur 25 October 2012 18: 54
    0
    the resource provides a platform for a separate category of cattle-trolls with a clearly Nazi orientation, for me a resource with a daily visit of 60k needs to somehow resolve this issue,
    I don’t see anything good about providing a platform for Natsik from Raska, on the contrary, it makes us Russians in the eyes of Ukrainians,
    by the way, six months ago, the network rating of "damned NATO members" classified our resource as "not recommended for visiting"
    as Vova of patriots recently said, smart and educated people should educate
    my only wish is, do not harm, do not give a platform to "pits and Bandera", everything is very subtle !!!! it takes a lot more time
  49. harrymur
    harrymur 25 October 2012 19: 04
    +2
    my wish to admins and moderators is one thing - do not harm, do not give the site "moskal and Bandera", everything is very subtle !!!! it takes a lot more time
    1. Voodoo
      Voodoo 25 October 2012 19: 40
      +2
      Respect, buddy! Indeed, everything is very "subtle". First of all, we must respect each other ...
      1. harrymur
        harrymur 25 October 2012 19: 50
        0
        Yes, bro I support you, only on the basis of respect it is possible to unite, but I have already been warned, do not get into your own business, so such publications are most likely a way to collect information about the mood of visitors, so to speak, stuffing it, let it not harm
  50. ikrut
    ikrut 25 October 2012 19: 05
    +7
    What are we arguing about, gentlemen, Panov? What is the "Ukrainian history"? Where, when, what? To stop any verbiage - you just need to look out the window, relatively speaking. AND EVERYTHING. WE, Russians (that is, Great Russians, Little Russians and Belarusians) created this great power and great civilization. Together with other peoples who were able and able to become part of it. Honor and praise to them for that. True, today this civilization is going through not the best times. Well, not the first time. We will exhale. And worse things have happened. But where are all these conquerors, alarmists, bawlers? And we - Russians - here they are. RUSSIAN - for a long time and far from only ethnicity. First of all, it is SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS, self-identification. awareness of oneself as a part of great history, culture, traditions, glorious achievements and victories. Regardless of different dialects, hair color or eye shape. That is why they have always been strong.
    And in the great RUSSIAN history of ours, along with the names of Suvorov, Tolstoy, Kurchatov or Korolev, Barclay de Tolly, Bagration, Bering, Gogol, Paskevich, Sukhoi, Khariton and many, many other great sons and daughters of Great Russia will stand. Yes and Mazepam-Bandera different places, too, always determined, and continue to define.
    1. Voodoo
      Voodoo 25 October 2012 19: 33
      0
      There is a story. Let not quite unambiguous. but there is. And there is a state, Nobody in the world has called us imposters. It’s only a shame that the rulers judge the entire state as a whole and its people ...
      1. xan
        xan 25 October 2012 22: 47
        -2
        and what do you judge by what? Only
        according to rulers and state power and are judged, everything else is a conversation in favor of the poor
        1. Purgen
          Purgen 27 October 2012 20: 24
          0
          According to the rulers and state authorities, the people are judged by "political strategists-amateurs" and the common people, as you put it, "poor". When strategy questions are on the map. The mood and attitudes are investigated down to every inhabitant of remote villages. By very sophisticated methods. Don't be fooled. One trouble NONE of us has true information and will not have. Sociological research, for understanding the real situation by the current government (both in Ukraine and in Russia), information from the category of "state secret". All public sociology and propaganda are "chews" for the formation of a society convenient for the authorities. Ukrainians have NEVER treated, do not treat and will not treat Russia with hatred. NEVER. EVERYTHING ELSE IS PROMOTION.
      2. A. Yaga
        A. Yaga 26 October 2012 02: 06
        0
        Duc rulers and "made" this state under the cover of my people, and came up with a nationality for my people by the name of the area, which my people named. Terrain, but not yourself.
    2. xan
      xan 26 October 2012 11: 26
      0
      plus stop
    3. xan
      xan 26 October 2012 14: 54
      -2
      plus stop